Payton Moreland
Appearances
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
You're listening to an Ono Media podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And he was with me in Rochester helping me move into my new apartment. which means Lloyd's alibi is sort of scrubbed now, considering he was only a two-hour drive from his ex-wife's house on the night that she died, not all the way across the United States. And so that's when the police take a much closer look at the family's dynamics as a whole, because they're like, okay, there's lies going on.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
We confront her. She doesn't really say, oh, yeah, I lied about that night. She said, well, I lied about my dad and his whereabouts. Right.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So police dig further into this family's dynamics. The people who know them, they begin interviewing. I remember how a lot of the dance moms saw Lloyd as the caring, charismatic father who took an interest in his daughter's extracurriculars. Well, it turns out some of the girl's friends saw another side of Lloyd growing up that sort of scared them.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Apparently Lloyd was a really strict disciplinarian with the girls, kept them on a short leash. He just seemed controlling at times. I'm talking militant drill sergeant wanting to keep control over them, not like a normal parent control. One friend said there was a time when she saw Lloyd snap his fingers and yell front and center, and the girls rushed over to him and knelt in front of him.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
There was another time when a friend witnessed Lloyd slap the girls across their faces. This is what he was doing with friends at the house, friends in company.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But this sort of control wasn't reserved for just his children. Apparently, he would also do this in public with his wife. Around 2007, he even made her cut ties with her own parents. Michelle's mother, Jean, believed that that was because Lloyd was threatening to take the children away if she didn't stop speaking with them.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
It's also a number one sign of a cult or a cult-like leader.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Which also probably have very severe narcissistic tendencies.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But things only got worse after Lloyd moved to New Jersey and the couple decided to get divorced. That's when Lloyd started turning the girls against Michelle, particularly Carrie, the middle daughter. Now, I don't know all of the nuances of what Lloyd would say to Carrie or her sisters, but over time, I know Carrie truly grew to hate her mother.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And a lot of that had to do with the little seeds that Lloyd was planting over the years of this divorce. Now, just to show you how brainwashed Carrie was, and remember that she already would go kneel in front of her dad. She was visibly shaken. There was one incident that happened back in 2015. This was two years before Michelle's death.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
One afternoon, Michelle was backing her car slowly out of the driveway after another fight with Carrie. Carrie tried to block her car from leaving, but eventually Michelle made her exit. No one was hurt from what I can tell during this argument, but Lloyd convinced Carrie that Michelle's intentions that day were nefarious and she was actually trying to run Carrie over with her car.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So her dad looks at her and says, your mom was trying to kill you.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
She was so convinced of her father's version of events that she actually filed a police report against Michelle. Although the allegations didn't hold up because there's, I mean, obvious reasons. But even with manipulation and psychological warfare aside, Lloyd was also trying to ruin Michelle's life using the court system.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
I guess after the couple finalized their divorce in 2013, Lloyd filed 26 separate post divorce filings, which is why this was still ongoing by the time of the murder. He was basically suing Michelle, using false claims to try and get out of things like paying child support. And of course, as we heard earlier, trying to get full custody of their youngest daughter, Charlotte.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
You know what you guys, we love you. Thank you. For liking Garrett's 10 seconds or not liking Garrett's 10 seconds, whether you're here for the true crime or just for the whole show, we love you guys. We are so grateful that you're listening. And I think I'm just gonna get right into the episode.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Now, according to some lawyers who worked on Michelle's case, it's normal to have maybe two or three post-divorce filings, but 26 is outrageous, which is strange because that many filings sounds pretty expensive. I mean, imagine all those lawyer fees you're paying each time you head to court. And yet Lloyd was extremely broke. By 2017, he was $100,000 in debt at least, which this debt,
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
was due to the child support and alimony payments that he needed to make, payments that Lloyd was clearly hell-bent on fighting. That was until August of 2017. On that afternoon, Lloyd didn't show up for his court appearance, the one for full custody of Charlotte, He didn't answer the court's emails or phone calls, just no call, no show.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So the case was dismissed, meaning Michelle would maintain the custody agreement that they had of Charlotte. Obviously, like I said, that was a major win. She was thrilled about it. She was celebrating. And then she died by hanging later that night. The timing of all this is extremely suspicious to police. Here's a man that was fighting his ex-wife tooth and nail over every little thing.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And on the day she dies, he mysteriously doesn't show up for court. It also doesn't help that Lloyd was very well aware of a life insurance policy Michelle had taken out recently. And if she died, $200,000 was meant to go to 14-year-old Charlotte.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Even stranger, one of the first places Lloyd apparently went after he learned about his ex-wife's passing was to family court to turn off his child support and alimony payments because his wife was now dead. So now not only has Lloyd's alibi that he was in California been thrown out the window, He also seems to have a lot of motive as well.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Not just hatred, not just wanting custody of a child, but also a ton of debt and money. And with police having a hard time getting a hold of him, they figure they're just going to have to corner him and get him to answer some questions. Where do they find him? At one of his favorite places, of course, a few days later at the local courthouse settling more business.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Our sources for this episode are allthatsinteresting.com, stargazette.com, cbsnews.com, theleader.com, people.com, nbcnewyork.com, spectrum, localnews.com, oxygen.com, mytwintears.com, and Dateline. Okay, so while most of us probably won't admit it out loud,
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Now, once police get to talk to him, Lloyd gives pretty much the same story that Carrie last gave. On the afternoon of August 26th, he helped Carrie move into her new apartment near campus, and then he went and stayed at a hotel nearby. He says Carrie came with him that night. They hung out for a little while, and then she left to go stay at her mother's house.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So he walked her to her car, said goodbye, and invited her back to have breakfast with him in the morning. Then he says he spent the night in the hotel. And the following morning, Carrie came to breakfast and met him, but now she had Charlotte. So when police go to corroborate his story, they look into his cell phone location and find that does track. Lloyd's phone never left the hotel that night.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But the security cameras in the parking lot tell a very different story. It's good for you, Garrett.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So that evening when Carrie left to go to her mother's house, Lloyd, her father got in the passenger seat and drove off with her. So just because his cell phone stayed behind at the hotel, doesn't mean he did. And those cameras don't show Lloyd or Carrie returning to that hotel until 6 30 AM the next morning.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Okay. Even if Carrie's cell phone was there for two hours, which police believe she doesn't come back with her dad until 6 30 AM the next morning. And they are both wearing the clothes that they left it the night before. They never changed into pajamas, which means they probably never slept.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Well, you also have a 14 year old daughter here.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Charlotte's here during all of this. So the next question is, what was she doing? So police realize this and they have a theory. They're like Carrie and Lloyd went to Michelle's house together to kill her that night. Something Lloyd was already banking on pulling off when he failed to appear in court earlier that day. The tricky part now is getting either one of them to confess.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Especially with how little evidence there was to prove this was a homicide. And again, where was Charlotte? So around September 2017, about a month after Michelle's death, police decide to go ahead and put a wiretap on Carrie and Lloyd's phone. And they start listening in on their conversations. Now, at first, they aren't giving them much to go off of.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
The conversations are pretty day-to-day stuff. How's school? How's things going? Nothing for police to get them on. So in November, police decide to sort of up the ante. They do something called tickling the wire.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
One of the investigators on Michelle's case calls Carrie to deliberately put her on edge. Basically saying, like, we need to meet up with you in person soon. We have a few things we need to talk to you about. When can you come down to the station? Carrie's like, oh, sure. I'll be there Monday afternoon. The investigator's like, yep, see ya. They hang up. Seconds later, Carrie calls her father.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
we all have one parent we are or maybe were closer to than the other except me on dad i love you equal you're both my favorite parent just like i'm your favorite child You might be a daddy's little girl or a mama's boy, but either way, that bond that you have with that parent is like nothing else in the world. A lot of us would go to the ends of the earth for our parents.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Takes the bait, hook, line, and sinker. And when Lloyd picks up, it's clear that Carrie is panicking. She says, what do I do? Now, at first, Lloyd's like, look, it's probably just standard procedure. Don't worry. But halfway through the conversation, he starts to sort of panic. He tells Carrie, actually, just don't go in and speak with them. He even comes up with an excuse for her.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Tell them you have to have a counseling appointment back in New Jersey. It's going to be hard to squeeze it in. Then he asks Carrie something really weird. He says, can you cry? Meaning over the phone when she calls detectives back, can she fake some tears? And Carrie says, I might, which is just bonkers. Then they talk a bit more about what the investigators might want.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And Lloyd reassures her if they were planning to arrest them, they'd have just stormed in with a warrant, not asked her to come down for a quick conversation. I can tell you one thing. It doesn't seem like Carrie makes it into the police station that Monday. So in January of 2018, police devise one more plan to try and get the two to confess.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
On the 24th of January, two detectives show up to Lloyd's New Jersey office and they tell them, so the medical examiner has ruled your ex-wife's death a homicide and we know that you weren't at the hotel that night because of security footage. He basically says, we're on to you guys. How about you come meet us down at the station? Take a polygraph. We'll rule you out. And Lloyd agrees.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Meanwhile, police are also showing up at Carrie's door, confronting her about their suspicions and asking her to take a polygraph as well. But when Carrie gets down to the station, she proves she's not very good at keeping up with the lies because she completely caves under the pressure of this interrogation. And here's what she says.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
about a week before the murder her father went to her and unloaded his problems on her he said that michelle was bleeding him dry he could no longer afford to pay for any of the things he owed her he told carrie that he felt like there were only two ways out of this mess either he killed michelle or he killed himself and he forced carrie his daughter to make the decision for him holy crap
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Now, Carrie, remember, has been being manipulated by her father for years and she has chosen to side with him. She sees her mother as the evil one. So together they devised a plan for how to get rid of Michelle. They were going to stage her death as a suicide. Then on the night of August 26th, Lloyd got into Carrie's car and drove with her over to Michelle's house. Carrie let him inside.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
He snuck up to Michelle's bedroom, confronted her there. Now, remember, I was like, but Charlotte's there. What are they going to do with Charlotte? What's going on? Carrie's job in this plan. was to keep her 14-year-old sister Charlotte distracted while her father was in another room strangling their mother to death.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And when he was finished staging the death to look like a suicide, the three of them would drive off into the night And apparently Carrie did such a good job distracting Charlotte. She had zero idea her mother had been killed.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Until that following Monday. Imagine the trauma of being in a house when that happened and finding out later that you were in the house when that happened and you had no idea what was going on.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But Carrie tells police that this interrogation, she had no physical involvement. She said, I was just, I knew the plan and I was to distract my sister. I also did disconnect the electronics in the home. I imagine this means like cameras. That could give away the fact that her father was even there that night.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So hearing this over at the Rochester station, police are ready to put Lloyd in handcuffs the second he enters the New Jersey station for that polygraph. only he doesn't show up. So instead, police track his phone and find him miles away at a parking structure in Princeton, New Jersey. When they get there, Lloyd is standing on the roof of the building, threatening to jump.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
We would do whatever we need to impress them, make them proud, make them feel loved and appreciated. But today I want you to ask yourself, what would you do if your parent asked you to help them with the unthinkable? Would you risk their relationship and rat them out if you knew that what they wanted was wrong? Or would you help them in their time of desperation?
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
For the next two hours, police are trying to literally talk Lloyd off of a ledge. Eventually, when Lloyd lets his guard down for a second, one of the larger state troopers who was there pulls him back to the ground. Within seconds, Lloyd is placed in handcuffs and charged with first-degree murder. That same day, Carrie, his daughter, is also arrested.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
She's charged with second-degree murder and tampering with evidence for her involvement in the crime.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
I mean, yes, but there's also not a ton of physical evidence outside of Carrie's confession.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So basically, the prosecutor's like, I think the only way we can really get Lloyd, who's pleading not guilty, is if we get Carrie, his daughter, to testify against him.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
She pleads guilty to her crimes and second-degree manslaughter.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
She's given only one to three years behind bars. Okay. But that also means she'll be the star witness in Lloyd's trial, only it doesn't get that far. Soon, Lloyd's defense team learns there's not just circumstantial evidence against him. It's not just his word versus his daughter's. There's actually DNA to prove he was at the scene of the crime that night.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Forensics had processed some of Michelle's clothing after her death. And when the district attorney's office had them re-examined by the state police, they found Lloyd's DNA on the pajamas Michelle was wearing that night. So just two weeks before Lloyd is set to go to trial, the DA goes to Lloyd and says, look, we now have physical evidence. Do you want to plead guilty?
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And the 48-year-old Lloyd shockingly says, yeah, I'll accept the plea deal, which was 25 years to life with the possibility of parole if he's lucky. Only it doesn't go that way. He accepts the plea and the judge still gives him life without the possibility of parole.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
i mean a judge can override yeah i mean he killed someone so i don't i don't feel bad however on january 16 2020 the 22 year old carrie was released from prison after serving less than two years of her sentence her father remains behind bars in elmira correctional facility in elmira new york now whether or not the two have had contact in the time since their imprisonment i can't say for sure but i do know this
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Michelle's mother, Carrie's grandmother, Jean, knows that Lloyd was really the one to blame. So the grandmother says he had spent so much time brainwashing Michelle's children. He weaponized his own daughter against his wife.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And Jean told 48 Hours that despite everything Lloyd said, she felt her job was now to reverse the narrative, to let Michelle's daughters know how much Michelle had loved them and that all she ever wanted was for her girls to be happy. And that is the case of Michelle Nyrider.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Even if it meant risking your own future, what would you do?
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
I think, like, the dynamic between a father and daughter, not only, like, planning the murder of the mother, but executing it.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
You know? All right, you guys, that is our case for this week. And we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But the guy knew that. The dad knew that.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
I'm speaking as someone who doesn't have a kid because I'm pretty sure if I had a kid, I don't know how parents do it.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Okay. so we are in the year 2017. i always when it's like 2017 16 18 i i always want to be like so recently but it's actually no it's not recently okay but 2017 in upstate new york it is the charming little city of corning and that's where michelle knight rider and her ex-husband lloyd had chosen to raise their family. So Lloyd and Michelle were originally high school sweethearts.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Oh, it's not like agreeable or non, it's a statistic.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
They met back in 1989 when Michelle was turning 18 and Lloyd was 16. So after they both graduated high school, they tied the knot two years later in 1991. Still, they both went to college, but fresh out of those years, Michelle got pregnant with the couple's first daughter. Then they had another little girl two years later. And then another girl about five years after that.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So now having to support a family of five, Lloyd found work at the glass company the town was named for, Corning Glass, as an engineer. And meanwhile, Michelle worked as an English professor at a nearby college. This was at least in the earlier years because eventually Michelle did quit her job to be a stay-at-home mom to their three little girls.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Still, despite being the primary breadwinner, Lloyd seemed to be pretty present in his daughter's lives. Apparently, he was often seen dropping the girls off at their dance classes in the evening, and many of the mothers found it sweet how good he was with their kids. But inside the Nyrider home, things weren't exactly perfect.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
As the girls got older, Lloyd and Michelle grew apart, and in 2008, Lloyd was offered a job down in New Jersey, but Michelle wasn't keen on the idea of uprooting their lives to go with him. So Lloyd went alone, and Michelle and the kids stayed back in their life in Corning.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And friends of Michelle's said she actually seemed much better for this once her husband moved away, that after Lloyd left, it was as if Michelle was more relaxed. She was happier. And apparently the distance made Lloyd happier, too, because sometime after that move, Lloyd told Michelle he wanted a divorce.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But I do want to mention, although the fact that they're both happy or separate, this divorce wasn't very amicable. In 2013, Michelle moved into a new home with the girls. And while their custody seemed to be split, Lloyd wasn't happy with the arrangement. He wanted sole custody of their daughters. something he fought for for years, even as the girls got older.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
I mean, their eldest daughter had moved out for college, as did their middle daughter, Carrie, who in 2017 was living in Syracuse, New York, and attending the Rochester Institute of Technology. But by this point, when he's fighting for custody, their youngest daughter, 14-year-old Charlotte, was living at home with Michelle, who still had shared custody.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
which was why the events of August 28th, 2017 were so surprising and devastating. So that afternoon, a neighbor stopped by the house to pick 14 year old Charlotte up for a carpool to swim practice. Only Charlotte didn't seem to be home. Instead, when the neighbor rang the doorbell, they saw Michelle, the mother, through the glass paneling at the front door.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
She was standing on the stairway, but she was completely motionless. It was as if she didn't hear the door. She just was standing there. And it actually freaked the neighbor out enough. They called 911. Because they were like, is everything like what is going on? I can see her. So officers were dispatched to the house.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And when they get there, they let themselves in and they found 46 year old Michelle on the staircase still like the neighbor had mentioned. Only she's got a rope around her neck.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And she's died by what appears to be a suicide by hanging. So she wasn't actually standing on the stairs. She was hanging.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But there's something one of the detectives noticed on Michelle. It's this little U-shaped mark on her chin. Sort of looks like the rope maybe got stuck around her face before it went around her neck. She also appeared to have scratch marks on her face, which told the police she maybe had second thoughts and tried to remove the rope. But they can't say for sure.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
All they know right now is that this is very unsettling. So is the fact that Charlotte, her 14-year-old daughter who was supposed to be picked up that day, is nowhere to be found at this point. And when police try to contact her, they can't get a hold of her. She's not answering her cell phone. No one seems to have seen her. So police are wondering, was she home during this?
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Is this some sort of homicide kidnapping? There's just so many things about this scene that are alarming.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Yeah. Then later that day, officers get a call down at their station. And it's Michelle's middle daughter. So 19-year-old Carrie, who's in college in New York. She says she got a disturbing phone call from one of her friends. They had heard that her mother might have died by suicide in the home earlier, and Carrie was literally calling the police to find out if this was true.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Now, unfortunately, police do confirm this for Carrie, but they do get a tiny bit of relief when Carrie says that her younger sister Charlotte had been with her for the weekend.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Carrie explains that on Saturday, which Michelle was found on that Monday, Carrie went back to Corning to spend the night with her mom and sister before getting settled into her new apartment and starting her next semester of college.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Apparently, at that point, Carrie had been back and forth between her mom's house and her dad's house, though during that weekend, her dad was supposedly at a job interview in California.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
so carrie probably didn't want to stay at her dad's house alone which is why she went to her mom's house but that saturday carrie said she didn't even make it through the night with her mom she got into a huge fight with her mom michelle over the same thing they usually fought about she was taking her dad's side on the divorce particularly the custody battles so rather than spend the night there carrie told charlotte get in the car and leave with me to my apartment and so
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
According to Carrie, the two sisters drove to Carrie's new apartment to spend the rest of the weekend there and not with their mom. So now police are thinking, OK, if what Carrie is saying is true, then maybe Michelle was so distraught over the fight and both her daughters leaving and just the divorce in general that she did take her own life that weekend in the house alone.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Before she ends the call with police, though, Carrie gives them her father's number, who that weekend was apparently in California. But it seems like they have a pretty hard time trying to get in touch with Lloyd over the next few days. So meanwhile, Michelle's body goes in for an autopsy. And they determined that Michelle did die of asphyxia, but that she likely died late Saturday night.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So this was after Carrie had supposedly left. It was either that.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
that fight or early the following morning. But the medical examiner also notices the little you mark on her chin and the scratches on her face. And this is why they decide to not list the death as a suicide yet. They mark it as undetermined until more investigation is done. So police are continuing to look into how Michelle died and they aren't anywhere near closing the book on this one yet.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And when they speak with Michelle's mother, Jean, she says with a lot of confidence, she was pretty sure that her daughter was murdered and this death was staged to look like a suicide. Now, look, I want to state just because someone has future plans or seems outwardly happy does not mean they aren't struggling. Doesn't mean they wouldn't take their own lives.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
And sometimes even the people closest to us don't really know how we're feeling.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
But Jean, she encourages police just keep following the leads because I don't believe this was suicide. She says Michelle was excited about this new chapter of her life, her kids leaving, her personal interests, her religion, which is why Jean tells them not only do you need to be looking into this as a murder, you need to look into Lloyd, her husband that she's currently divorcing.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
Here's the thing. Lloyd's on the other side of the country at that job interview in California. So he's got a pretty good alibi. And while Lloyd does seem to be dodging their phone calls, that doesn't mean police are closing the book on the murder theory or him as a person of interest. So a couple of weeks pass. There's a little movement in the case.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
That is until investigators notice something tiny in one of the crime scene photos as they're relooking at the evidence. Michelle's bed appears to be slightly askew. And so they're looking at this photo, zooming in and behind it, they notice a very faint stain on the wall that they didn't notice originally. And it looks like a blood stain.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So police go back to the county medical examiner and are like, hey, we need a second opinion on that autopsy. And when they look closer, they find the damage to her throat is not consistent with the injuries that are usually seen in self-strangulation cases. Which tells them this probably means another party was involved in this hanging.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
They also learn there was another detail about that day that Michelle supposedly died. One Carrie seemingly left out when she told police about the big fight she had had with her mom. See, that same day that Michelle was found dead, she had just had a major victory in their court case. Something to do with the ongoing custody battle she had been engaging in with Lloyd for the youngest daughter.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So I was reading this statistic the other day that if you are in the percentage that listen to Murder With My Husband, you're statistically more good looking than the rest of the world.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
which is just more confirmation to police that Michelle likely wouldn't have chosen to die by suicide, not after she had just made huge progress in this custody case. But more importantly, when they learn this, it made them question the 19-year-old daughter, Carrie. So they get a copy of Carrie's phone records because they want to corroborate this story she initially told them.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
She said she wasn't at her mom's house for very long that night, only about 15 minutes before she took her sister, got in the car and drove to her apartment in Rochester to spend the weekend. But the phone records show Carrie was at her mom's house for a lot longer than she said, more likely two hours in the house before she left.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
oh here we go they're like well like that's a pretty obvious lie you would know 15 minutes versus two hours you might not know an hour and a half versus two hours so they're like this is an obvious lie she obviously lied and the fact that her mother according to the autopsy died that same night or in the early morning red flags man here we go that puts some suspicion on Carrie and her story.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
So the question for investigators was, would Carrie have done something like this alone? The other sister was there. So this is why the police speak with her again. And this time she tells them, okay, Actually, my dad wasn't in California that weekend. She's feeling pressure from police. And so she gives up this lie and says he was actually back by that point.
Murder With My Husband
262. The Murder of Michele Neurauter
It's okay. Some people are really frustrated that you don't know what 10 seconds is. So this one, that one was, this one's for you guys.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Wenn Christen nicht trinkt, wie viele der Partygoers berichtet haben, Dann wie ist sie ausgeschlossen? Das Einzige, was die Leute denken können, ist, dass sie etwas verloren hat.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Weil, als Tim sie aufgewacht hat, konnte er sagen, dass sie wirklich raus war. Tim fragte, wo sie lebte und Kristen sagte, welche Dormitur. Und da es nur eine 10-Minuten-Wohnung von der Party war, war Tim so, okay, lass mich dich einfach in deine Dorms gehen. And that's when another girl who was also leaving the party, Cheryl Anderson, asked if she could walk with them.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
She's like, hey, I'm alone as well. Can I walk with you guys? She was headed to the dormitory right across from Kristen's. So the three of them started strolling when out of nowhere, another guy came up and said, hey, I'm also going that way. Let me take over. You just go back in the house. Who do you think this is?
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Paul Flores. Tim, ein Senior, wusste, dass Paul seltsam war, aber er wusste nicht viel über Pauls Reputation, weil er nichts davon denkt, dass Paul diese beiden Mädchen zurücknimmt. Während dieses Rückkehrs erkennt Cheryl, dass Kristen viel mehr davon ist, als sie ist.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So when Kristen keeps needing to stop and Paul sort of supports her, she finds it strange that during this, like as Kristen's taking more time, Paul says, oh, oh, Cheryl, just go on. Just go on without us. I can walk her home. You just go ahead. Und schlussendlich kommt Cheryl zu der Tür ihres Gebäudes und sagt Gute Nacht an Kristen und Paul.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Und an diesem Punkt kann sie sehen, dass Kristen nur 40 Meter entfernt von der vorderen Tür ihres Gebäudes ist. Also denkt sie, okay, ich habe ihr Haus sicher, sie ist nur 40 Meter entfernt von ihrer Entfernung. Und sie sagt Paul, wirst du sicher machen, dass sie in ihr Zimmer kommt? Und er sagt, ja, ja, ich werde. Aber dann macht Paul etwas wirklich seltsames. Total auf Brand für ihn.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Okay, er unterstützt Christen sehr aus. Und er sagt, hey, Cheryl, willst du mir einen Kuss geben, bevor du in dein Dorm gehst? Und sie ist so, nein, Paul. Und er sagt, okay, wie about just a hug? Und sie ist so, nein. Und dann schaut sie, als Paul zurück zu Christen geht und sie zu ihrer Dormitur führt. Am nächsten Morgen, am 25.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And I was already awake. And then when Garrett came back in, I said, Garrett, I was near tears because my leg, my entire leg was aching so bad. The pain in my knee had spread all the way to my shin, my calf, the top of my foot. I had been sleeping with elevated. I had taken ibuprofen. I was worried it was a blood clot because, you know, similar things.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Mai, fragt Margarita, warum Christen, ihr Freund, ihre Karten nicht zurückgegeben hat. Die Karten, die sie ihr die Nacht vorher gegeben hat. Sie geht in den Hall zu Christens Wohnung und knallt, nur gibt es keine Antwort. Und es ist nicht bis Christens Freundin später zurückkommt, dass Margarita lernt, dass Christens Seite der Wohnung unabhängig ist.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Es sieht nicht so aus, als hätte sie sie jemals zurückgebracht. Her purse, her ID, her keys, all the things she left there are still in the same spot.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So they figure, okay, maybe Kristen just met someone at the party. Maybe she's out having a day with someone. Heck, maybe she decided to go home for the weekend, right? Like maybe she'll be back. But when 48 hours pass and there's still no sign of Kristen, her friends decide to call campus police. But it's not until Monday, May 27th,
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
that the campus police then call Kristen's family, asking if she went home to see them for the holiday. Now at this point, when the police call, and it's been this long since her daughter is seen, Kristen's mom is worried. It wasn't like Kristen to go a few days without calling them, but it also wasn't unheard of. When she gets this phone call, she is like, this is alarming.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And so right after this call, Kristen's parents go to the local police to file a missing person report, because by this point, Kristen has been missing for nearly 72 hours. Yet, the police tell her family, it's still too early to file a report. Which as I will say for the 800th time is not true. There is no waiting period on a missing person report in this country.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But they also say, hey, this is Cal Poly's police's jurisdiction anyways. So you would need to file there if you're going to. And they're probably already on it. However, it is not until Tuesday that Cal Poly actually starts taking this investigation seriously. Partly because of the holiday. They're thinking, well, she probably just went somewhere.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But this is also problematic because a lot can be done in four days to cover up a crime. Now, look, I get that these campus police departments probably don't deal with cases like this very often. It's sort of uncharted territory for them. But it's completely understandable for the smart family to be frustrated with how this whole thing has been handled.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
In fact, they say that they treated Kristen's case as if it were like another stolen bicycle on campus. Plus, listen to what the campus police wrote in their initial report about Kristen's disappearance. Quote, Ich finde das verrückt.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So Garrett's like, I think we need to take you to the ER. So at three o'clock this morning, last night, We go to the ER, we get it checked, I get scans done and everything. Turns out I sprained a ligament in my inner knee and also there's a fissure in my meniscus. Do not ask me how it happened, because it's embarrassing, because we did figure out the cause of how it happened.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Jeder andere Student. Sie schämen sie. Sie sagen, wir sind nicht schuldig, aber sie sind schuldig.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So, he had six days to do... Whatever he wanted. Even though police knew that he was the last person she was seen with. And get this, when they do talk to him, they don't check his dorm room either. That won't happen for another 10 days.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Wenn ich dir erzähle, wie seine erste Interview mit den Polizisten war, wirst du sagen, warum hat es sie noch vier Tage gedauert, um diese Kinderzimmer zu suchen. Die Polizei macht Paul jeden Schritt durch, den er am Abend gemacht hat. Sie sind durch den Gratwein gegangen und haben festgestellt, dass sie das letzte Mal mit Paul gesehen wurde. Sie warten diese alarmierenden Tage und holen ihn ein.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Und sie interviewen ihn ein paar mehr Mal in dieser Woche. Und seine Geschichte bleibt nie konsistent, von der ersten Zeit an. But he does manage to maintain that the last time he saw Kristen was after she said goodnight and walked towards her dorm alone that evening. And here's what's even more problematic than the story changes. Paul shows up to that first interview.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
That's days after she went missing. With scratches all over his hands and a very obvious black eye.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And he tells the police, I don't actually know how I got this black eye and these scratches. I just woke up with it. That's what he tells police initially. Okay. And so police pull him in the next day and they're like, hey, hey, how did you get this black guy really? And the next day he says, oh, actually, I got it playing basketball over the weekend.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And then when they pull him in the third interview before they've even checked.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
I mean, I told you from the very get go. There was one suspect, this entire investigation, and it's very obvious.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And when I like. Wenn du die Geschichte von Paul hörst, dass er von Scary Paul, Chester the Monster, genannt wurde. Ich meine, seine Geschichte ist unglaublich. Es ist verrückt. Also haben sie beschlossen, Pauls Freund zu sprechen und haben etwas anderes gelernt. Die beiden hatten über Christens Verlust geredet, nachdem es passiert ist. Wow. Und der Freund hat Paul verrückt gefragt,
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
What did you do with her, you know, since you were the last person to see her? Like joking, like you were the last person to see her and now she's missing. And Paul said, she's home with my parents. So this is oddly strange and specific. Something that definitely stood out enough to Paul's roommate for him to tell the police.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But like I said, the police didn't do much about Paul in the way of evidence until 10 days after that first interview. That's when they finally took a team of search dogs through the dorms at Cal Poly. There are zero hits as they are walking these dogs through the dorm, through Kristen's dorm. Until they reach Paul's bedroom. In fact, the dogs go straight to Paul Flores' bed.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
They get a hit. So at this point, Paul refuses to take a polygraph. But he did have another 90-minute interview with police, where he acted incredibly weird. He was tucking himself up into a little ball on the chair. He was pulling his arms into his shirt. And then he looked the cops dead in the eyes and said... If you're so smart, then you tell me where the body is.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Okay, at this point, no one even is saying Kristen's dead. She's been missing.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Nope. So after that interview, Paul's parents hire him a lawyer, which was definitely necessary because they have their prime suspect. Keep in mind, for the first month of the investigation, Cal Poly police are also tracking this case solo. It wasn't until after the first month that they finally handed the case over to the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Department.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Und sie kommen rein und sagen, hey, Paul ist unser Typ. Primär, nachdem er gehört hat, was er zu seinem Ruhemann gemacht hat. Der, wo er sagte, Kristen war zu Hause mit seinen Eltern. Aber es hat sie noch zwei Monate gedauert, um endlich zu den Flores zu kommen, 17 Meilen weg. Und sie bringen keine Kadaver-Tüten mit ihnen.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Nein, ich habe meine Meniske nicht getrocknet. Ich habe meine Meniske nicht getrocknet während des Sexes.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Sie bringen keine Forensik-Team oder sogar Paul Search oder seinen Vater Rubens Auto. Das ist ein großer Fehler, weil gleich danach einer ihrer Trucks getradet wurde und der andere wurde verurteilt. So, gleich nachdem Paul Flores' Familienhaus gesucht wird, wird einer ihrer Trucks getradet und der andere wird verurteilt.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Oh, okay. Ja. While the proceedings were sort of kept under lock and key, I do know that there weren't any charges filed against Paul Flores at that time. So they basically flirt with the idea and decide not to do it. Even though police know they have their guy. So for the next six or seven months, they keep interviewing witnesses.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
It's still not moving the needle, which is why in May of 1997, the sheriff made a statement to the press. One that will actually become a pretty big screw up in this case. He says they have interviewed almost a hundred people. This is what he's saying to the public. Und alles führt zu Paul Flores. Also outen sie ihn.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
No, what happened was, the whole reason this pain started happening is, I don't know if you watch on YouTube, but every single time I record, every single time I stream, every single time I color, every single time I ride Passenger Princess, I sit crisscross applesauce, okay? I don't know what it is, there's something very comforting to me to have my legs up.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Aber, und ich quote, wir brauchen Paul Flores, um uns zu erzählen, was mit Kristen Smart passiert ist. Also, ohne etwas von Mr. Flores zu verurteilen, sehe ich uns nicht, diesen Fall zu beenden.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Which is basically handing Paul Flores a pass on a silver platter. As long as he keeps his mouth shut, he will get away with this crime.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And Paul hears them loud and clear. So when the smarts sue Paul Flores in a wrongful death civil lawsuit, because at this point everyone knows he did it. He already has a strategy. Say nothing. Plead the fifth. And when he's deposed by the smarts lawyer six months later for that civil suit, he invokes his fifth amendment 27 times.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
He's like, nope, I'm not talking. But it turns out, telling Paul Flores to keep his mouth shut wasn't the only ball dropped by police. Apparently. Da gab es ein riesiges Stück Beweise, das sie etwa drei Monate nach der Entfernung von Kristen erhielt. Und es war eine, die komplett durch die Kratzer gefallen ist. Also, das braucht ein bisschen Hintergrund. Aber als Kristen im Mai 1996 entfiel,
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Paul's parents, Susan and Ruben, were separated and living apart. And Susan and Ruben become a big part of this case. I'm just going to spoil it for you because a lot of people believe that both of them were involved in helping cover up. They believe that Paul did something to Kristen and then called his parents and his parents helped him get away with the crime.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So Susan and Ruben, his mother and father, are separated and living apart. But four months later, they thought, maybe we should give it another shot. Susan put her house up for rent and moved back in with Ruben for a bit. And that's when Susan decides to rent their home out to a young couple. And they move in that fall. Okay, this is the home that Paul Flores would have come back to.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So she's now renting this home out to a young couple after Christens disappeared. But one day, while the mother of this young couple is washing her car in the driveway, she sees something on the ground that catches her eye. And it's an earring. It's not just a simple diamond on a post.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
It's a very specific earring. Das ist so in... Okay. dass dieses Haus noch nicht mit Kadaver-Tüten gesucht worden ist. Auch wenn Paul seiner Freundin gesagt hat, dass sie bei seinen Eltern zu Hause war. Ja. Weil dieses junge Paar die Verbindung zwischen Susan und Ruben und der Ausbeutung von Kristen Smart weiß, entscheiden sie, den Eingang an die Sheriff-Departement zu stellen.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Well, I've been doing it an abnormal amount. I'm talking, every time I'm sitting, my legs are going into crisscross, and they think, over time... I literally sprained my ligament and fissured my meniscus by sitting crisscross applesauce for prolonged periods of time.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Except for God knows what reason, it was never marked and filed as evidence. So this woman who's living in this house says, hey, I found this earring, I'm pretty sure it's hers, because look at the missing person poster, and they never file it as evidence. And here's the frustrating thing. I know you're thinking that this house that the couple moved into was the house that police had searched.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Es war nicht. Das war Susannes Haus und die Polizei hat nur Rubens Haus gesucht. Also hat sich dieses Haus noch nie gesucht, aber das Eingang wurde in der Fahrt gefunden, was essentiell bedeutet, dass es zwei Orte gab, um Paul zu verstecken, aber nur eines wurde gesucht. Er sagte, es war in meinen Eltern Haus, aber sie waren separat. Sie haben nur Rubens gesucht und Susannes ungesucht.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
In fact, Susans Haus wasn't searched until long after that earring was turned in, in March of 1997. This was 10 months after Kristen's disappearance. But the police didn't find anything of note. And it would take three more years before they returned to search her property.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Now, over that time, Susan and Ruben did call it off and Susan was back living in the home where the earring was found. And on June 19th, 2000, there was a knock on Susan's door. And this time it was the FBI's evidence response team with a search warrant. Actually, the warrant even gave them permission to dig up the backyard. Only they didn't follow through with it for whatever reason.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
She went missing in 1996. They show up to this house again with ground penetrating radar. Only they don't find anything of note then either.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So you can imagine how frustrating this entire process must be for the smart family to feel like this entire family has something to do with their daughter's disappearance, probable murder. And they are so close yet so far from finding any real sign of their daughter because this entire family has pled the fifth.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Und trotz der Fehler, die sie auf dem Weg gemacht haben, scheint es so zu sein, dass die Sheriff's-Departement wirklich zu dem Fall verantwortlich war, besonders um es für mehr als eine Dekade offen zu halten, während sie weiter Führungen und Suchen beitragen. Aber auf der anderen Seite bedeutet das, dass Paul Flohr einfach draußen lebt.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Okay, also er geht aus der Schule, er bewegt sich nach Südkalifornien, Irvine, um es genau zu sagen.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
He gets a job in Irvine. I'm going to mention that Garrett probably went to the restaurant Paul Flores was working at in Irvine at the time he was working. No. I am telling you. What year? Yeah, like the early 2000s, 2007. You were not gone. You were living in Irvine.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And I should have looked it up. It's like a common chain, like a Chili's or an Outback Steakhouse. It's like a really common restaurant.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So I can't even walk right now. And yeah, we were up at three. So and we're leaving tonight and it's a whole thing.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
I promise you, you probably ate at this restaurant while he was working there. And might I add, this entire time that he is out at this restaurant, he is hitting on girls, roofing girls, like he's still being Scary Paul. After he is the main outed suspect in Kristen Smart's disappearance. He's a free man and maybe the only person in the world who knows what happened to Kristen Smart that night.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
However, there was one person who couldn't stand the thought of that. And it wasn't someone related to Kristen. It was actually a complete stranger. A journalist, podcaster, named Chris Lambert. So this is where we enter Chris Lambert into this story. Chris grew up in the San Luis Obispo area. In fact, he was about 8 years old when Kristen disappeared from college.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And he remembered driving by a billboard of her missing poster every day on his way to school growing up. And then one day, when Chris reached adulthood and became a CBS News consultant, he had a thought. I wonder whatever happened to that girl on that billboard that I drove by from my hometown. Whatever happened to that girl? Why hadn't her case been solved? That billboard was still up.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So Chris's intention was to get some answers. He wanted to reignite conversations around her case. This was a hometown case for him. So Chris started interviewing people about Kristen and Paul. And from that he launched his own podcast called Your Own Backyard in September of 2019. By then it had been 23 years since Kristen went missing.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So basically what Chris did is he's like, I'm going to look into this case. He didn't even really know that much about it. He looks into it and he's like, wait, you're telling me we we probably know where her body was at one point. We know who did it. We know who she was last seen with. And this is unsolved. And Paul Flores is free. So he decides to make a podcast.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
He's like, if I can spread the word, maybe the police will do something. And I'm gonna be honest, the podcast was very successful. A lot of people started coming out of the woodwork to say, hey, we listened to your podcast, it was released episode by episode, and I have information about Paul Flores. And they wanted to share it with Chris.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So this is when a lot more victims of Paul Flores, not murder victims, but sexual assault victims, roofie victims, creepy dates, creepy work stories. This is when all of these women start coming forward.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
For example, in February 2020, about six months after the podcast was released, and honestly, a couple months later, Gerrit and I were going to start murder with my husband, Chris got a really fascinating tip. Apparently, just a few nights after police conducted their last search on Ruben Flores' house, a neighbor noticed something strange.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Ruben and his ex-wife Susan, along with her new partner, all stayed up throughout the night after police had just searched it, doing something underneath Rubens deck. So the police search their house, they leave, and then a neighbor notices all three of these adults doing something underneath Rubens deck.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
There were also a lot of accounts that came from women, like I said, who had had encounters with the now 42-year-old Paul Flores. Apparently, there were a number of women who Paul had made inappropriate passes at, who he had tried to kiss, who he tried to force himself upon. An ex-girlfriend of his even said he was physically and verbally abusive throughout their relationship.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Now, Chris also made sure to share these tips with the police. Okay, he wasn't just making the podcast. He was taking everything he was learning to the police. I mean, his goal was to find out what happened to Kristen once and for all to make sure the right person ended up behind bars.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Eventually, the noise surrounding Paul Flores in this case, because of the Your Own Backyard podcast, was so loud that police could not ignore it. So in April of 2020, because of the podcast, Nur wegen dieses Podcasts, das Steam erzielt, entscheiden die Polizei, Pauls Zuhause in San Pedro, Kalifornien zu zerstören. Und was sie gefunden haben, hat die Nase in Pauls Koffer gelegt.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Ich denke, wir müssen in heute's Episode reingehen, weil... Warte, die Leute werden wirklich wütend sein, dass ich nicht gesagt habe, was meine Überraschung war von dir.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Es war eine Tröte von Videos und Fotos auf Paul Flores Computer. Okay, er ist jetzt 40 Jahre alt. Er lebt in seinem eigenen Haus. showing him engaging in sexual acts with at least 10 different unconscious women. He had roofied women and then videoed himself sexually assaulting them and all of this was found on his computer. But police don't move in to arrest Paul just yet.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
They were still going for the big ticket, which means they were trying to find evidence that he had murdered Kristen Smart. So in March of the following year, they returned to Ruben Flores' house, because at this point they're pretty sure the parents are connected. The one where he and Susan were seen doing something under the deck by the neighbors, and this time they find something notable.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
After digging under that deck, because the podcast tells them to go do this police collect soil samples when they send them out for analysis they discover that the soil underneath this deck contained fibers and biological evidence meaning there was human blood and dna underneath this deck They also find a four foot deep hole under that deck that is just empty, but it's four feet deep.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And they find some suspicious stains inside a trailer parked on the property, but they don't find a body. And you have to understand that this was happening live as he's reporting on this podcast.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Okay, wir posten es auf... Ich sage dir, was es ist, und dann poste ich ein Bild auf Socials. Gerrit customierte mir einen neuen Weddingring.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
He drops an episode and then the police go and dig it up. And then he drops another episode and he's like, there's a four foot hole under there. Okay. Unfortunately, that biological evidence was so old that it couldn't be concretely tied to Kristen Smart, but it was enough for them to get an arrest warrant.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
In April of 2021, police not only arrest now 44-year-old Paul Flores for murder, they also arrest his 80-year-old father, Ruben, for being an accessory after the fact. Because if they believe this body was on Rubens property, then that means he was involved.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Okay. Okay. Sie haben zwei separate Jury, eine für jeden von ihnen. Und obwohl viele Beobachter an den Stand gerufen wurden, gab es einen, der dieses ganze Case aus dem Wasser flog. Es war eine Frau namens Jennifer Hudson, die oft mit Paul zusammengehalten hat, kurz nach Christens Verlust. Und ihre Geschichte, ihr Testimonial hat alles verändert.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Jennifer sagte, dass sie im Sommer 1996 mit einigen Freunden in einem Skatepark war. with Paul when a message came on over the radio about Kristen's disappearance and that's when Paul turned to Jennifer and said hey I was at a party with that girl last night so he's hanging out with this girl at a skate park
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Something comes over the radio about Kristen's disappearance and he just tells them, hey, I was at a party with that girl that night. And he said, I actually was there and I did it and I put Kristen under a skate ramp at my parents' house. So through tears, Jennifer tells the jury how
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Sie haben all unsere Ringe gemacht. Sie sind großartig. Wir lieben sie so, so sehr.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Er hat im Grunde genommen zu diesem Mörder verabschiedet und sie hat diese Informationen aufgenommen, weil sie Angst vor Paul hatte, aber es hat sie jahrelang verletzt. Aber als ihr Freund ihr über Chris Lamberts Podcast erzählt hat, dachte sie, okay, ich werde es endlich machen. Ich werde es Chris weitergeben und erzählen, was Paul mir gesagt hat.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Und so weit wir wissen, war das die einzige Verabschiedung, die er jemals zu jemandem über Kristen's Mörder gemacht hat. Between Jennifer's testimony and the stories from the other women Paul had sexually assaulted, he didn't really stand a chance. On October 18th, 2022, Paul was found guilty of first-degree murder.
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literally he is found guilty of her murder at trial however his father ruben flores was acquitted for his charges of accessory so the two juries don't necessarily line up the one says yes paul did it the other says no the father was not involved and susan flores and her boyfriend were never charged either
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But in March of 2023, Paul was sentenced to 25 years to life for killing Kristen Smart, which was a pretty big win for the justice system, considering to this day, Kristen's body has never been found. It was a no body case.
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Oh mein Gott. Wir müssen zurückbringen. True Serum. Und wegen dessen bleiben viele Fragen noch. Hat Paul Kirsten gemeint zu töten? Ja. War es eine Schwierigkeit am Abend, die Kirsten das schwarze Auge gegeben hat? Hat er ihr zu viel aufgerufen und ihr Überdosis gemacht? Wo war Kirstens letztes Restplatz? Wir glauben, dass es an einem Punkt in Rubens Hintergrund war. Das ist so verrückt.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Aber jetzt, offensichtlich, weil der Wärme und die Polizei versuchten zurückzukommen, haben sie sie bewegt.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Das stimmt. Und wenn es nicht für Chris Lambert und die erneute Interesse, die er in dem Fall erzeugt hat, und ehrlich gesagt, viele der Beweise und Beweise, die er entdeckt hat.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Ich glaube nicht, dass die Polizei jemals etwas gemacht hätte. Und um ehrlich zu sein, wurde er als Podcaster im Trial bezeichnet und er wurde von der Verteidigung, von Paul Flores Verteidigung, mehrere Male gebracht. So at this trial, it's the podcaster, the podcaster, because he becomes like an integral part of the resurgence of this case and the evidence that's brought up.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But like I said earlier, it's cases like these that remind me why podcasts, true crime podcasts are valuable. Why these stories need coverage, especially unsolved ones. And it was nice to hear this sentiment from Kristen's mother, Denise Smart, too. She said,
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Ja, schau mir meine Socials für das an.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Du hörst einen Ono Media Podcast. Hey alle, willkommen zurück auf dem Podcast. Das ist Mörder mit meinem Mann. Ich bin Peyton Moreland.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Es sind nicht nur die Podcaster, sondern auch die Zuschauer.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Ich meine, Chris, sein Podcast war nur ein Train für Zuschauer, die Kontakt mit Paul Flores hatten, um zu sagen, warte, ich muss vorwärtskommen und meinen Interaktion mit ihm sagen. Wortlos. Und das ist die sehr beschlossene Geschichte von Kristen Smart. Nochmal, wenn du einen tiefen Dive und einen sehr gut gemachten Podcast möchtest, würde ich dir empfehlen, zu deinem eigenen Hintergrund zu hören.
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Alright you guys, that was our case for this week and we will see you next time with another one in 2025, I believe. I love it.
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The reason you reached out is they don't typically do rings like the one Garrett made, but they were totally up for the challenge and they nailed it.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Yes, so thank you, Garrett. I love the ring so, so much. It was the best gift I had ever been given. It totally caught me by surprise and I love it. So thank you.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Our sources for this episode are cbsnews.com, newyorktimes.com, ksby.com, santamariatimes.com, latimes.com, people.com, foxnews.com and npr.org. Okay, bevor wir in diesem Episode kommen, wollte ich euch wissen, dass dieser Fall viel übernommen wurde. Es gab viel Aufmerksamkeit über diesen Fall. In Wahrheit gibt es einen Podcast namens Your Own Backyard, der diesen Fall übernommen hat.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Aber es ist auch eine Geschichte, die Garrett hören und prüfen muss, warum der True-Crime-Genre manchmal extrem hilfreich ist.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Wenn du auf YouTube schaust und du denkst, du siehst aus wie Tod.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
If you're wanting every nitty gritty detail the deepest dive, go listen to your own backyard. So every once in a while, a case comes along that reminds me why we do what we do. Because true crime shouldn't just be entertainment, it also serves a purpose.
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Whether that's spreading awareness to a cause, highlighting a community that doesn't get as much coverage, or just getting a missing person's face and name out there. We got into this business to offer support to the victims and their families. And to me, that is what comes first. And I know for a lot of you listeners, that comes first as well.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And we keep doing what we do because honestly, you never know who will hear an episode and have the missing piece of the puzzle. Das war genau das, was zu einem anderen Podcaster, Chris Lambert, passiert, als er einen jahrelangen Fall über eine junge Frau namens Kristen Smart beobachtete. In 1996 fuhr Kristen aus ihrem College Campus in San Luis Obispo, Kalifornien.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But when there wasn't enough evidence against the primary suspect, the suspect that they knew from the very first day of the crime, the investigation slowed. That was until Chris Lambert decided to make a podcast on this case and give it a new life.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
He encouraged witnesses to come out of the woodwork, to speak up about their connection to the case, and ultimately he helped get justice for Kristen Smart's family, nearly three, Das ist so cool. So in the mid 90s in California's San Joaquin Valley, just a little northwest of San Francisco, we have a teenage Kristen Smart who is thriving.
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She's crushing all of her high school classes, A's and B's across the board. She's a proficient athlete who loves swimming and skiing. She's also done a good amount of traveling for a kid her age in the 90s. We're talking about trips to London, Venezuela. She even spent one summer as a camp counselor in Hawaii.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Kristen war super ambitioniert und immer auf die nächste Abenteuer gebeten, weshalb sie, wenn es an der Zeit kam, eine Universität zu wählen, ihre Eltern begten, sie zu einer Schule in den Völkischen Inseln zu lassen. Aber beide von Kristen's Eltern riefen zurück. Sie dachten nicht, dass das ein sicherer Ort war, um zur Schule zu gehen.
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Sie sagten, hey, wir würden sich viel besser fühlen, wenn du nur in der Nähe der Universität gehst, wo sie sie mit einem schnellen Fahrrad fahren können. The campus they preferred was one with a really low crime rate, Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo. So Kristen didn't love the idea, but if her parents were paying, how could she argue?
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At least she'd be out there on her own, starting a new chapter of her life. A day that finally came when she moved into the campus dorms in the fall of 1995. Like most college students, Kristen saw Cal Poly as a way to sort of reinvent herself.
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When she wasn't studying for her architecture degree, the 18-year-old Kristen was dying her hair from blonde to brunette or trying out new nicknames for herself like Roxy or Trixie. Aber Kristen hat auch ein bisschen zu tun, wahrscheinlich weil sie in einer Gruppe stand. Kristen war alt für eine Mädchen. Sie war sechs Fuß eins, um es genau zu sagen.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Und während Kristen hart arbeitete, um die soziale Szene bei Cal Poly zu navigieren, hat sie auch mit der Schwierigkeit ihrer Klassen zu tun. Kristen brachte ihre Eltern oft zu, wenn sie sich fragte, ob Cal Poly der richtige Ort für sie war. Sie war in einigen ihrer Klassen hinterhergelaufen, die nicht ihr waren, aber sie fand sie zu herausfordernd und sie war ein bisschen heimisch.
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Jetzt sage ich das nicht, um zu sagen, dass Kristen keine Freunde hatte. Ich denke, es ist nur das normale Frühjahrsjahr, das viele von uns durchgehen, wenn du deine Heimat verlässt und irgendwo neu gehst. So, by the spring of 1996, after her freshman year, 19-year-old Kristen was begging her parents to let her drop out altogether.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And around April, Kristen's mother wrote her a long letter encouraging her to push through. It was almost summer break. She told her, hey, things are going to get better. She said, quote, world of opportunities are at your fingertips. dass sie sich auf ihr Klassenarbeit konzentrieren sollte und von ihren Fehler lernen sollte. Im Grunde genommen, einfach wieder auf die Piste gehen.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Also, als die Memorial Day-Weekend umgekehrt wurde und viele der Schüler für die Weihnachtszeit auf der Klasse weggingen, hat Kristen entschieden, zurückzukehren. Sie wollte in den Dorms über Weihnachten bleiben. Sie hat gedacht, sie könnte ein paar Studien für ihre Finals machen. Eigentlich hat sie ihre Mutter an dem Tag um 5.30 Uhr angerufen, um zu sagen, dass sie gute Nachrichten hatte.
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Sie konnte einen Biologie-Test von früher im Semester machen. Und glücklicherweise war sie nicht allein am Wochenende. Seine Freundin und Nachbar aus der Halle, Margarita Campos, stand auch zurück. Und obwohl die Schule definitiv auf dem Gehirn war, wollte Kristen auch das Wochenende ein bisschen Steam ausbrechen, wie alle College-Studenten.
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Also hat sie ihre Freundin Margarita ermutigt, mit ihr am Freitagabend, also am 24. Mai 1996, zu gehen. Okay. Okay. But Margarita was over it. She told Kristen, no, I'm heading back. Kristen told her, you can't leave. She had forgotten her purse, her ID and her keys. And if Margarita went back before she did, she wouldn't be able to get back into the building. So Margarita compromised.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
She gave Kristen her set of keys and headed back to the dorms while Kristen continued to search for a party solo. So Margarita said when she left Kristen, it was around 10.30pm that night and they were both stone cold sober.
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I'll update you on the sitch for Garrett's 10 seconds. So here's what's going on. My knee has been hurting for a while. Okay. And then the last couple of days I've been noticing that it's just been hurting a little bit more than usual. And then two nights ago it was hurting really bad at night to the point where my foot started to go numb, which of course made me panic a little.
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And if you're confused like, well now Margarita doesn't have keys, I'm assuming they thought that Margarita would be able to get someone to let her in at 10.30 rather than in the early morning hours when Kristen came home.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Okay. Oh, she's six feet tall? Six foot one. Dang. But reports of what Kristen was doing there were sort of murky. Some said they saw Kristen that night flirting with a bunch of boys at the party, maybe even kissing one of the basketball players, maybe even pulling one into the bathroom. And others said they saw her chugging tequila.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
Others said, no, she didn't have a drink in her hand that night at all.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But there was one thing that several party goers agreed on. And it was that at one point in the night, there was a loud crash in the hallway at this party. And when everyone gathered around, Kristen Smart was on the floor. And a guy... Okay. Okay. He's pretty quiet, okay? He doesn't talk to too many people at the party. He mostly plays pool and hangs out by himself.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
But for a quiet guy like Paul, he sure does stir up a lot of gossip among his peers. For starters, Cal Poly was a bit out of Paul's depth. He never really had good grades or SAT scores in high school, but people said he got in because the university gave a little grace to applicants who were local to the area. Okay.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
One night he drunkenly climbed a trellis up to one girl's balcony outside her apartment and when she demanded him to leave, he refused and then she called the police. Apparently this wasn't an isolated incident. Paul was known to inappropriately hit on other female students. In fact, that was kind of sort of the only thing people on campus knew about Paul Flores.
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249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
He literally would show up to all the parties and then just act creepy. He had no friends. The girls were just... He literally earned nicknames around campus as Chester the Molester and Scary Paul.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And people literally refer to him as Scary Paul. Oh, Scary Paul's here.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
And then the next day I woke up, I could barely walk on it. And by last night, It was so swollen, but I didn't do anything to it. So I had no idea what was going on. Okay. So I wake up at three. Well, Daisy wakes Garrett up at three to go potty.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
So basically when the crash happens and people see Paul Flores on top of Kristen, they're like, dude, Get off like it's just another Paul thing. No one's really that surprised. But other than that strange incident with Kristen, Paul seemed fairly subdued that night at the party, according to witnesses. Kristen, on the other hand, had drawn a little more attention. I guess at around 2 a.m.
Murder With My Husband
249. The Haunting Murder of Kristin Smart
that night, a senior student named Tim Davis, who was helping throw the party, was clearing people out. Und das ist, als er Christen bemerkt hat, die sich eigentlich als Roxy verabschiedet hat. Und sie wurde auf ihrem Nachbarns Blatt übernommen. Also ist er alle raus, es ist 2 Uhr Uhr, Zeit zu gehen. Und dann bemerkt er Christen, aka Roxy, wurde übernommen. Und hier ist das Alarmierende.
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Well, it's at this point, obviously, that Esther, the mom, darts upstairs to find her husband and son both bleeding out in her foyer. und der Mann, der sie getötet hat, ist jetzt nirgendwo zu finden. Die ersten Anwesenden waren in einer Minute im Haus. Sie platzierten Mark, der noch auf einem Gürtel atmet, und rutschten ihn in den Krankenhaus, aber es war bereits zu spät für Daniel.
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Er wurde an der Szene gestorben. Mark, sein Vater, hat kräftige Schmerzen am Nase, aber glücklicherweise hat er eine volle Rückkehr gemacht.
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Und obwohl die Polizei noch nicht bewusst war, dass ein solches Verbrechen, das nur eine Woche früher in Kalifornien war, ich meine, wir sind in zwei verschiedenen Teilen der Vereinigten Staaten, es wäre nur eine Frage von Zeit, bevor sie herausgefunden haben, weil beide von ihnen die Hilfe der FBI einbauen werden. Und hier ist das Ding.
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Yeah. Now, Judge Salas has, of course, gotten threats in the past. She's a high profile judge prosecuting big cases. So the occasional scary phone call or intimidating letter probably wasn't all that foreign to her. But this is certainly the first time anyone has acted on it. And she has no idea who it could be.
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While the FBI works to figure that out, they equip her with 24-hour protection from US Marshals, so they're pulling out the big guns for this. Especially because they aren't sure if this is one person or an entire group of people targeting her family. So the FBI is mentally preparing themselves for what they think is going to be a doozy of a case.
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Don't forget, add free content and bonus episodes on Apple Subscriptions, Patreon. All the things if you are listening on Apple Podcasts. Double click, boom, bonus episode.
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They're getting ready to start collecting any shred of a threat that's been sent to the judge in the past. When the following day the FBI hear about another death that happened 150 miles away in New York State's Catskill Mountains. So this is now the third death in this case. Am 20.
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Juli, das ist nur der Tag nach Daniels Tod und Marks Schuss, bekommen die New York State Troopers einen Anruf über ein bescheuertes Fahrzeug, das auf einer Todesstraße in Sullivan County, New York, sitzt. Sure enough, when they arrive at the scene, they find the vehicle is abandoned. But they also discover that just a few steps away is a dead body lying in the grass.
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And this man has been shot in the head. And he has his wallet and his ID on him. Es ist ein 72-jähriger Mann namens Roy Den Hollander, aber sie finden etwas anderes an der Szene, sortiert in der Brust. Es ist eine semi-automatische Pistole und von der Richtung der Wunde sind die Bewerber ziemlich sicher, dass der Schuss in diesem Fall selbst verurteilt war.
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Now, the name Roy Den Hollander doesn't ring any bells for police. It doesn't seem like he's on any sort of suspect or wanted list at the time. But a quick background search on Hollander reveals he's also an attorney, though he's from New York City. So the question now is, why would an established lawyer with a big career come all the way up to the Catskills to die by suicide?
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Well, one of the officers on this case, Captain Brian Webster, starts asking this exact question. But once they start rifling through Hollander's car, things become even clearer. So, probably the most telling clue was that Hollander had a FedEx envelope sitting in his car that was addressed to Judge Salas in New Jersey. And Captain Brian Webster, well, he watches the news.
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So this name sets off a bunch of alarm bells for him because he's been following the story over the last 24 hours about how a prominent New Jersey judge and her family was targeted by a FedEx worker at their home. So once he sees that FedEx envelope, he's thinking, wait, I might have the suspect in this case, but he's now our victim in this case.
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So he alerts the FBI right away. Oh, and by the way, a .38 handgun, like the one that was found right by the deceased Hollander, is the same weapon used in the attack on the family. So, I mean, one plus one equals two. Yeah. But that's not the only telling thing police find in the vehicle. They also discover a piece of paper with an address for a home in the mountains just outside of Los Angeles.
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It was bad on purpose. I wasn't showing you my skill. I would never show off like that. Do you have 10 seconds for us today?
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A home in San Bernardino belonging to Mark Angelucci.
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Esther. That sucks. So I do want to just be clear. We have two marks.
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Yeah. Yeah. And the second one is the husband who was shot but is alive. Now the FBI gets in touch with the police in that district because they're like, why does this paper have this name on it? Und dann lernt er über Marks Mord, weil er sich erinnert hat, dass das Verbrechen damals noch von lokalen Polizeifahrzeugen untersucht wurde.
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Und sie hatten keine Einzelperson auf ihrer Aufmerksamkeitsliste in Kalifornien. So, als sie die Teile zusammenbringen, fühlen sie sich ziemlich sicher. Okay, wir denken, dass diese drei Verbrechen oder diese drei Todesfälle, wenn man will, are connected.
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They're also like, not only are these all connected, we're pretty sure Hollander shot himself. So now we're thinking he's the guy. But then why did he shoot himself? But it's on the opposite side of the country. So did he act alone? Is there more people? Is this a group of people who are attacking lawyers or judges?
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Seems to be the former because they find evidence that Hollander had taken a train out west to San Bernardino on July 7th, four days before Mark Angelucci's murder. Got there, rented a car. It's a car with the same description as the one that showed up at Mark's house that day. And then he fled back to Los Angeles, dropped off the rental and got back on a train at Union Station to come east.
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So this is just even more damning because they have proof he went to California. So Hollander is captured in surveillance footage at both train stations, L.A. and San Bernardino.
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He's walking in this footage with a coffee in his hand, but it confirms exactly when he arrived and left. This just fits the timeline of the crimes. So shortly after making this discovery, police also test the ballistics in the weapon that they found with Hollander at his place.
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crime scene i guess if you will a self-induced crime scene and they run it against the one that shot both daniel and mark sure enough the bullets are a match so the fbi is certain we have our guy and we know that he was very likely working alone in this but now we need to know why Roy Den Hollander war kein hartes Krimineller oder jemand, der sich auf seine Glück verletzt hat.
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Seine Leben wurden von Judge Salas oder Mark Angelucci schwerer gemacht. Er war nur ein anderer Mensch für sie. Also warum wollte er beide tot machen? Zum Beispiel, dieses Geheimnis wächst nur mit einigen anderen Teilen der Beweise, die er in seinem Auto gefunden hat. Denn Hollander scheint eine Art Hitliste zu haben gemacht.
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Die Polizei hat auch ein Foto eines New Yorker Hauptjudges namens Janet D. Foray entdeckt. Es gab auch eine andere Anzeige für einen Staatsverfassungsgericht in seinem Auto. Jetzt fragen sie sich also, ob das jemand war, den Holländer geplant hatte und nicht konnte? Und eine Anzeige für eine Gerichtsschule könnte alles bedeuten.
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Aber mit Hollanders Geschichte und Agenda, war er planen, einfach da rein zu gehen und Feuer auf eine Runde voller Menschen zu öffnen? Es scheint einfach, dass es viele Was-Wenns um Holländer herum gibt. Der eine silberne Linie ist, dass er niemanden mehr schaden kann. Sie sind ziemlich sicher, dass sie ihren Mann haben.
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I. No. I wouldn't because you would yell at me.
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Aber all diese Tätigkeiten, die schuldig sind, sind ein bisschen schrecklich für Investigator. Offensichtlich war Hollander jemand mit einer Verbrechung, einer Verbrechung. Und der einzige Weg, um zu den Boden zu kommen, ist, um tiefer in Roy's Leben zu blicken.
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Also am Tag, nachdem die Polizei Hollander tot findet, sind sie in seinem New York City-Apartment, um jeden Schreck der Beweise, die sie haben, um dieses Geheimnis zu entfalten. Sie sprechen auch mit jedem und jedem, den sie finden können, der sie verbrechen kann. Interessant. High profile murders. He's like, yeah, that doesn't really surprise me. This guy Hollander had a huge anger problem.
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See, Jeffrey met Hollander back in 1977, when they were both volunteering for a state senate campaign out of Boston. They both then moved to New York around the same time, three years later. So the two kept in touch, being in a new city and all. But eventually, Jeffrey says he started to put distance between them.
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He said Hollander was toxic, always extremely angry about life in general, and was just the kind of unpredictable person you never really wanted in your life.
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I'm not sure he was trying to get away with it. I think he was just trying to get his anger out considering that he then took his own life. Und hier ist die Sache. Sie interviewen einen anderen seiner Freunde, Joe. Und er hat fast das gleiche gesagt. Joe und Hollander haben sich 1999 in Moskau getroffen. Joe arbeitete für einen amerikanischen Konsultationsfirmen dort.
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Und in diesem Jahr hat Hollander auch mit dem Team zusammengearbeitet. Ich weiß nicht, ob das Job, was Hollander nach Russland gebracht hat, war, aber ich weiß, dass Joe von Hollanders Vergangenheit ziemlich beeindruckt war, weil Hollander tatsächlich ein sehr intelligenter Kerl war. Er hat in den USA an prestigiosen Geräten gearbeitet und ein MBA aus einer Ivy League Schule gehabt.
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Plus, Hollander really seemed to keep up with his appearance because he worked out all the time, he was dying his hair a lot. So Joe thought, for a 50-year-old single guy, this is someone who has a lot going for him. He's smart, he's handsome. And Hollander seemed to think so too, because he was always out in the nightlife scene in Moscow looking for women to date.
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In fact, Joe said it almost seemed like an obsession for Hollander. All he wanted to do after work was go out, drink and pick up a new woman. And in that nightlife scene in Russia, the 50-ish-year-old Hollander met a 24-year-old model named Alina. The two had a whirlwind romance and got married in Russia in 2000.
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Then when Hollander moved back to the States, she came with him under a temporary visa.
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Later, Hollander would argue that Alina falsely accused him of abuse, just so she could stay in the States under the Violence Against Women Act, which does offer those sorts of protections and can help survivors petition for immigration status. Here's the thing, though. People who knew Hollander... believed Alina.
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Because Hollander always had this sort of lack of respect or honestly rather total disdain for women. He was openly anti-feminist and he used his skills as a lawyer to argue a lot of things that he felt were inherently favorable towards women.
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But as a fellow lawyer, Nicholas Mundy told the Post, quote, In my opinion, he was already a controlling, misogynistic, sexist, delusional and disturbed individual before his marriage failed. So this is just the type of person people around him think. And then in the 2000s, friends noticed that Hollander was starting to call women by a new name.
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So instead of calling them women, he started calling them feminazis.
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Our sources for this episode are CNN, Oxygen, Paramount Express, USA Today, LATimes.com, DailyNews.com, People, 6abc.com, sbsun.com, newyorkpost.com, dailybreeze.com and CBS News. Do you ever stop to think about how many strangers we come into contact with every single day?
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So the angry anti-feminist remarks got less subtle, more consistent from there, which would make sense considering some of the cases he started taking on at this point in his career. Like this one. In 2008, he sued Columbia University for providing women's studies classes. He claimed it was bigotry against men. And he won that lawsuit, by the way.
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Yes. He also filed a handful of lawsuits against bars for having ladies' nights. He said they violated the 14th Amendment that says everyone should have equal protection.
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He's basically saying the fact that you're giving women a discount to get into the bar and not men is prejudicial. So it was sort of trivial nonsense that Roy Den Hollander was wasting his law degree fighting for. But in Hollander's eyes, his fight against women seemed to be a cause worth dying for. And this all appeared to stem back to his mother.
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Apparently, at one point in his career, Hollander wrote a book and dedicated it to his mother, writing, May she burn in hell.
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This was a lifelong crusade for Mr. Hollander. Something that was made apparent to police when they discovered a 2,000-page manifesto in his apartment. Dude. Ich kann nicht mal anfangen, alle Details zu sagen. Aber wie Sie sich vorstellen können, hatte viel mit dem Manifesto zu tun, wie viel er Frauen hasste.
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It kind of signaled why he had driven from New York up to the middle of nowhere to die by suicide. Apparently it had to do with the fact that his family had a cabin there when he was a little boy. You're probably wondering, okay, why the heck did he pick these people? Like, why travel all the way across the United States to shoot one person? Especially because Mark was a male rights activist.
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This would seemingly be right up Hollander's alley, so you'd think they'd be in the same corner. Not really. Let me start with Mark. Yes, they may have had a similar line of work, but turns out Hollander actually had a grudge against this man for years. And it appeared to be over something that seems small. I guess Mark had filed a lawsuit alongside the National Coalition of Men around 2014.
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And Hollander had already been working to file a very similar lawsuit. So now he's like, hmm, even though we're fighting the same battle, you are now my competition.
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Yeah, because you're fighting the same battle as me.
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What a guy. And to make matters worse, Hollander was a board member of the NCFM at the time, but he was kicked out a year later, in 2015, because he called the president of the NCFM, Harry Crouch, and threatened his life after Hollander learned he'd been left out of that lawsuit that Mark was now filing. So he's literally just petty.
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Now, Mark Angelucci had received a handful of threats from Hollander over the years, but apparently didn't know they were coming from him. Or if he did know they were coming from Hollander, he didn't tell anyone. So, all right, we now know his motive for Mark. But why Judge Salas and her family? In 2015 hat Hollander eine Gesetzesordnung verabschiedet, die Judge Salas übernommen hat.
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Der Fall argumentierte, dass selektive Serviceregistrierung nur für Männer benötigt wurde. Also im Grunde, wenn es jemals einen Draft für den Krieg gibt, sind nur Männer darin eingegangen. Aber Hollander argumentierte, dass das diskriminierend ist.
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Whether that's passing someone in the grocery store, running next to them on the treadmill at the gym, sitting next to them at a restaurant. There's so many people that we know absolutely nothing about, yet we have these little interactions with them almost mindlessly all the time.
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Hollander sah diesen Fall als einen großen Meilenstein für seine Karriere. Ich meine, wenn er dieses Gesetz ändern könnte, würde er die Geschichte von Amerika literally ändern. Aber Judge Salas war ein Wegblock dazu, weil sie den Fall immer wieder verlängert hat.
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Offensichtlich gab es so viele Verabschiedungen, dass Hollander im Jahr 2019 den Fall zu einem größeren New York-Firmen verabschiedet hat, weil er behauptet hat, dass etwas in seinem Leben gekommen wäre, das ihn von seinem Job verhindern würde.
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Troy Dan Hollander, at this point in 2019, had just been diagnosed with cancer.
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Might as well go out, taking everyone down with him. It was terminal. Treatment would only be in vain. I'm not sure how long they gave him to live, but the way he saw it, he wasn't going to go out alone. In that manifesto, Hollander confessed that the diagnosis motivated him to go after those he felt had wronged him.
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In his writings he included the quote, The only problem with a life lived too long under feminazi rule is that a man ends up with so many enemies that he can't even the score with all of them. But law school and the media taught me how to prioritize. Und leider waren Mark Angelucci und Judge Solace einige seiner hohen Prioritäten.
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Obwohl es nicht Judge Solace war, der ihr Leben am Tag verloren hat. Es waren ihr Sohn Daniel und fast ihr Mann Mark auch. Judge Solace fühlte, dass eine große Teil der Probleme war, wie einfach es war, ihre Informationen online zu accessieren. Dank einer kurzen Google-Search konnte Roy seinen Weg direkt an ihre Tür finden. And in November 2020, she pushed for legislation to change that.
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That month, Daniels' law was signed into effect. This bill is aimed at protecting public officials from having any of their personal information listed online. Judge Salas' hope is that no judge, attorney or lawmaker will ever have to worry about a stranger showing up at their doorstep again.
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She wants to make sure that none of her colleagues ever have to go through the heartbreaking devastation her family went through Und das sind die Mörder von Marc Angelucci und Daniel Enderle.
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Yeah. Like, what the... And I'm sure... And it's weird that at his first murder, he waited for the correct person to get to the door.
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Ich denke, er war nur ein negativer, kräftiger, wütender Mensch, der ständig die Verletzung gespielt hat und Rage hatte und dachte, weißt du was, wenn ich sterben werde, so werden auch andere Menschen. Er ist so verletzt. Was ehrlich gesagt nur der schlimmste Typ der Person ist. Es ist schrecklich. Du bist einfach kräftiger.
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Manchmal ist es einfach zu vergessen, dass diese Menschen auch echte Menschen mit ihren eigenen Leben, ihren eigenen Familien, ihren eigenen Hoffnungen und Träumen und ihren eigenen Grudgen und dunklen Geheimnissen sind. Wir stoppen niemals, zu denken, wie die Aktionen eines Verwandten uns beeinflussen, weil sie die meiste Zeit nicht beeinflussen. Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020
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Well, if you're grumpy because you didn't get to have a cookie, that makes sense and that's okay. But if you're grumpy because you hate women, you should go to therapy.
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Alright you guys, that is our episode for this week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
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But when you open the door, your entire life changes forever. Just because that stranger was out looking for revenge.
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Du sollst sein. Ja, ich soll. Okay, so let me introduce you to a 52-year-old man named Mark Angelucci. So in 2020, Mark is living in Crestline, California. This is a small little mountain town in San Bernardino County. It's about two and a half hours outside of Los Angeles.
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Now, Mark's never been married by 2020, he doesn't have kids, and that's because his entire life has been pretty much dedicated to his work. See, Mark is a high-profile, well-liked lawyer. Und er ist nicht der Art von Anwalt, der in einem lustigen Auto fährt, immer in perfekt gekleideten Schuhen trägt. Mark ist viel tiefer auf der Erde. Er liebt den ruhigeren, humbleren Lebensstil.
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Das ist wahrscheinlich der Grund, weshalb er sogar in den Bergen lebte. Er hat noch sein altes Auto, das er in den Boden fahren wird. He's not flashy or materialistic, according to any of his friends. He's just a fun-loving, light-hearted person who cares more about his close friendships than showing off to strangers.
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But there is one thing about Mark's career that some might find a little controversial. See, Mark was a men's rights attorney. And I know in this day and age, that just sounds a little wrong in general. But everyone who knew Mark said he was never someone who was against women. In fact, he was very supportive of the feminist movement.
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But he found it important to look for places where men were maybe underrepresented in situations that mattered. For example, Mark was big on representing men who were victims of domestic violence. There does need to be representation. Actually, in 2008, he led a lawsuit against the state of California, claiming it was unconstitutional to exclude male victims from domestic violence resources.
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But he also fought for men who were, say, having a hard time getting the custody rights that they deserved. That sort of thing. Everyone needs someone in their corner. And for men who were struggling in certain cases, Mark was their guy. A lot of the time he even took on cases pro bono.
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Aside from that, Mark was also the vice president of an organization called the National Coalition for Men, or the NCFM, which is a non-profit civil rights organization aimed at fighting legal discrimination against men. So this is a big part of Mark's life and his identity, to say the least.
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And while Mark might have upset a few people along the way, no one anticipated what happened to him in July of 2020. So on the 11th of that month, Mark was enjoying a quiet little Saturday at home with a friend, when a little before 4 p.m. there was a knock at his front door. Marks Freund schlug aus dem Fenster und bemerkte, dass es ein FedEx-Deliverer war.
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Während Mark beschäftigt war, öffnete der Freund die vordere Tür und bestellte, den Package zu signieren. Aber der Deliverer behauptete, dass es Marks Signatur war. Also warten sie auf die vordere Tür, während der Freund Mark holte. Okay. The delivery man then ran back to his white car, got in and sped off. And this is before Mark's friend has even really realized what happened.
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Like he heard the bang. He didn't realize, though, that the delivery man had shot Mark that fast and then ran away. Oh Gott. Hm, das wird schwer zu finden. Besonders wenn man da wohnt. Well, two things were sort of happening simultaneously here. There were both no suspects and dozens of suspects at the same time.
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You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
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Because while they had no idea who this FedEx driver could have been and why he might have deliberately wanted Mark dead, Mark did have a lot of clients in cases he was working on where he was either representing or working against some pretty troubled people. I mean, anytime a lawyer is killed, Du wirst eine lange Liste von Verbrechern haben.
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I think maybe some attorneys in really high profile cases.
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Well, it's just that if you feel like you have had injustice against you and then there's someone actively working to keep that injustice against you, fight for the person who's hurt you, that is frustrating. I can imagine just sitting there being like, oh my gosh. Just feeling so out of control of the situation.
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So when this happens, Marks friends confidently told police it was very likely that the person who had shown up on the doorstep and shot him was someone that he had worked with or was currently working with that probably has a grudge against him. But as police started to look into who those suspects might be, another tragedy happened. It was eight days later and 2,800 miles away.
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You guys really seemed to like our merch drop, the new Strangey Dangy merch.
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So it's now July 19th in North Brunswick, New Jersey, about an hour and a half outside of New York City. And the Anduril family is having what starts off as a lovely Sunday afternoon. 20-jähriger Daniel war ein Junioren an der Katholikern-Universität in Washington, D.C., aber das Jahr war an ihm schwer, wie es für fast alle in 2020 war.
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Wegen der Pandemie hat Daniel viel dieses letzte Semester nur zu Hause studiert, seine Freunde verpasst. Aber Daniel war nicht der Typ, den Kind zu klagen. Er und seine Familie waren die Art von Menschen, die das Beste aus jeder Hand, die sie getroffen haben, machen. Daniels Mutter, Esther, wurde mit einer kubanischen Mutter und einem mexikanischen Vater geboren.
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Und ehrlich gesagt, war diese Frau ein Held in mehreren Fällen als nur einer. Als sie jünger war, hat sie ihre Familie im Ausstieg von einem Hausfeuer geholfen. Dann wächst sie auf und geht weiter, um eine Gerichtsjahre zu suchen und wird 2011 der erste latinische US-Distrikt-Gesetzberichtsführer, was eine große Sache ist.
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It was through her law career that she ends up meeting her husband, Mark Anderle, who went on to be a criminal defense attorney. Judge Salas, which is Esther's last name, was actually in charge of a pretty famous New Jersey case back in 2014. If you watch The Real Housewives of New Jersey, she was the judge assigned to Teresa and Joe's financial fraud case.
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Me neither. I just don't. I think a lot of people think I'm crazy for that, but never been my thing.
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Es ist nicht das. Es ist nur so, dass es andere Dinge gibt, die ich lieber mehr sehen würde. Und ich späte nicht viel Zeit, TV zu sehen. Und deshalb habe ich nicht genug Zeit, um dann auch die Realität TV zu machen.
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They were so cute. We'll probably definitely drop those again in the future. So if you didn't snag one, don't worry. Hopefully we will drop those again.
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Remember Chris Schell's ex-husband? He was on This Is Us.
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No, that's Glenn Powell, but close. I'm talking about Justin Hartley.
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Anyways, she was the judge for the Real Housewives of New Jersey. So all to say, Daniel, who is the only child of two very prominent people in law, decides obviously he's going to follow in their footsteps. So he's planning to go into law school once he graduates from Catholic University. But as I mentioned, it has been a while since Daniel has seen any of his friends, thanks to the pandemic.
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So earlier that summer, he asked his parents for a favor. Could some of his closest college friends come by and spend the weekend for his birthday if they promised to be super careful? And Esther and Mark say, yeah, sure. So on Friday, July 17th,
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A handful of old pals stayed at the Anderles' house, spending the weekend laughing, reminiscing and having beautiful meals to celebrate Daniel's 20th birthday. And when it came time to pack up their things that Sunday morning, the 19th, they thought it would only be a matter of time before they would all be reunited again at school.
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Little did they know, just a few hours after they would leave Daniel's home, everything would change. So that afternoon, there is another knock on the door of the Andorral family home. Now Mark peers out the window to see a FedEx delivery guy standing at their doorstep.
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Now he thinks to himself, it's a little odd for a delivery driver to be working on a Sunday afternoon, but he figures, I don't know, it's 2020, nothing seems to be normal right now. So before Mark can even get to the door, Daniel, his son, who had been chatting in the basement with his mom, darts upstairs to answer the door.
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And when he opens it, he finds a white man standing there in a FedEx uniform, saying he has an envelope for Esther. He asks Daniel if she's home and if she can come to the door to sign for it. But before Daniel can even make a move to go fetch his mom, the delivery man pulls out a gun.
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His dad Mark comes around the corner just in time to see his son raise his arms in the air, scream no and then get shot and fall back onto the ground. So, because Daniel has gotten shot and is now on the ground, Mark, the dad, is now in the man's line of fire. So the gunman then points his weapon at the dad and fires three more times.
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253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Which was why Eileen was terrified to go to the police when things in their relationship started getting violent. According to their friend Mike, who knew about this throuple, the first physical fight between Eileen and Christina happened in his house back in 2017.
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When Eileen made a comment about how she'd been sleeping with Zach long before Christina had even knew about it, that they had been having an affair, Christina began throwing punches at Eileen. But the fighting seemed to become a regular occurrence, especially when the two women were drinking. Mike said it wasn't abnormal to see one or both of them with a black eye.
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Soon the fights were almost daily. But Eileen's friend Ali said she heard a different side of the story. She would get calls from Eileen saying, please come over and help me. He hurt me again. Meaning Zack.
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Als Ali sie ermutigte, einen Polizeireport zu verabschieden, verabschiedete Ali, Christina's Vater zu rufen, dass sie nicht glaubte, dass sie geliebt werden würde, weil Christina's Verbindung zur Macht war. Aber schlussendlich sagte Ali, dass der Verbrechen so schlecht war, dass sie eigentlich zu einem Punkt Eileen ins Krankenhaus nehmen musste.
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I want to ask you guys to do something for me. And that is that what I'm doing right now, sitting alone, getting ready to dive into a true crime story is literally what I do over on my solo show into the dark. Okay. It is basically bonus episodes for you guys. Murder with my husband listeners.
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Und auch dann, als die Mitarbeiterin fragte, woher die Schmerzen kamen, war Eileen Angst, es legal zu veröffentlichen. Also war Ali, als sie sie erwartete, Wenn du aus dieser Situation nicht rauskommst, wird jemand sterben. Aber an diesem Punkt fühlte Eileen sich enttäuscht. Sie war finanziell anstrengend. Sie konnte nicht mehr einen Platz auf ihrer eigenen Seite haben.
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Und um März 2018, anstatt von dem Paar weiterzugehen, hat sie tatsächlich entschieden, mit ihnen mitzugehen. Ich meine, es kann definitiv genug herausfordernd sein, mit deinem Partner zu leben und zu arbeiten. But then double that? Two partners? And there's already a violent, contentious dynamic to begin with? This is not going to end well.
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Still, Eileen told her friends and sister, no, no, no, it's just temporary. She was going to give it a month or two and see how it played out. But Eileen couldn't even make it that long. A few weeks after moving in, Eileen had to get out of there. Dann hat sich alles verändert, als Zach am 7. April zu Eileen kam und ihm sagte, hey, ich bin auch fertig mit Christina.
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Also, an dem Tag hatten Zach und Christina einen witzigen Kampf. Vielleicht sind sie noch nicht am stärksten. Eileen hat ihren Freund Ali nachgefragt, um zu sagen, dass sie und Zach aus dem Haus und weg von Christina waren. But Ali thought that meant out to the mall or a coffee shop for a minute. She didn't think that meant they were running away, like out of the state.
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However, the next call Ali received was from Christina. She said, hey, since Zach and Eileen aren't answering my calls, I'm going to call you and have you relay a message to them. Sie sagte, sie würde die Fahrzeuge, die Zach und Eileen fuhren, als gestohlen, wenn sie nicht für sie zurückgekommen wären.
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Also hat Ali Eileen angerufen und gesagt, hey, Christina hat mich angerufen, das ist, was sie gesagt hat. Aber Zach und Eileen waren bereits auf der Route nach Georgia. Und es scheint, dass sie so schnell aus dem Haus gekommen sind, dass Eileen nicht mal ihr Telefon oder ihre Wallet genommen hat. Sie hat einfach Zach benutzt. Still, Eileen kept telling Ali this was the best thing, okay?
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They were just gonna finally escape Christina and be together, how it had originally supposed to be. But this doesn't last long. So when they run away together, Christina begins sending Zach texts saying you two deserve each other. But over the next few hours, they become more threatening. She began saying things like, my dad's gonna be calling you. You F me over and now I'm F-ing you over.
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Over the course of 24 hours, Christina sent them over 150 text messages. And Zach and Eileen did not reply to a single one, okay? They were ghosting. So it looked like they were holding strong until the following day. The couple reaches Texas. And that's when Christina changed tactics. Suddenly, she's begging Eileen and Zach to come back home.
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So if you are all caught up on everything and want to just keep listening to your typical true crime murder with my husband case, minus Garrett, okay? And I know he's the best part, but over there it is minus him. Please, please, please go follow my show Into the Dark. And honestly, if you don't want to listen to it, can you please just go follow it and turn on automatic downloads?
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She promises to change, says you'll never have to question my love again. Und Zach schlägt. Aber anstatt Eileen zu sagen, wir müssen zurückgehen, wir müssen uns umdrehen, hat er ihr gesagt, dass er Christina eingeladen hat, um in Dallas zu fliegen, um sie für den Rest von dem, was jetzt nur eine kleine Reise wird.
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Und natürlich, nachdem Christina in Texas aufsteht, werden Dinge zwischen den drei von ihnen nackt. Eileen würde mit Zachs Telefon aussteigen, um Ali zu rufen und zu sagen, dass es zwischen den drei von ihnen wirklich schlecht ging. Sie wusste nicht, wie sie aus der Situation rauskommen konnte, besonders weil sie ihren Telefon oder ihre Wallet nicht hat.
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Nun, das bleibt für mehrere weitere Tage und Eileens Schwester Francesca wird auch extrem berührt, weil sie nicht von ihrer Schwester in über einer Woche gehört hat, was wiederum sehr anders ist als sie. But when the throuple finally turns back and passes through New Orleans, Eileen gives her sister a call. And on this call, okay, Eileen tells Francesca flat out, I think they're gonna kill me.
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Now, of course, this terrified Francesca, who told her sister, hey, run to the nearest police station, gas station, anything, get away from Zach and Christina. But for some reason, Eileen tells her she can't. And then she rushed Francesca off the phone, leaving her completely hopeless. She had no idea what hotel they were staying at, what they were doing next, where they were going.
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All Francesca could do was pray that her sister somehow would make it back to Miami okay. Now that was around April 17th, when the two spoke. By April 21st, the throuple is back in Florida, still driving their way down to Miami, when they decide to call it quits on the driving for the night and hole up in the Sportsman's Lodge Motel in East Point, Florida. This is our crime scene.
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And for the first night, it seemed like the trio was actually getting along. Remember, according to hotel staff, they were pleasant, they check in. On the evening of Saturday, the 21st, the three of them grabbed dinner before going out to play mini-golf. Then they went back to the sportsman's lodge and partied for a while before calling it a night. Am folgenden Morgen, am 22.
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Juni, haben die drei einen Plan für den letzten Teil ihrer Reise gemacht. Sie haben entschieden, eine weitere Nacht am Hotel zu verbringen, bevor sie am Montagmorgen nach Tampa gehen. Also gehen sie in den Likerstore. Sie kaufen zwei große Bottle von Vodka und ein riesiges Ding von Fireball. Dann spielten sie die meiste Zeit am Motel, barbecuieren und trinken.
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253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Aber Eileen hatte nicht eine gute Zeit an diesem Punkt. Wieder einmal schlug sie weg, um Ali zu rufen. Und sie sagte ihrem Freund, ich muss wirklich einen Weg finden, um jetzt zu gehen. Ich kann nicht warten, bis morgen. And she tells Ali, honestly, I'm being treated like a sex slave right now in this relationship. Zach was being scary ever since Christina joined them.
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253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
According to her, she told Ali that Zach had this look in his eye that she didn't recognize. She said, can you help me? Please help me come up with a plan. So Ali buys her a Greyhound ticket and tells her hop a bus when they made a pit stop in Tampa the following day. So wake up the next morning, get to Tampa and then take this bus.
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And then Ali would scoop her up from the bus station in Miami and she'd take her home to get her things while Christina and Zach were still on the road. And then Eileen would go stay with Ali for a while until she figured out her next chapter in life. Only as we know, Eileen would never make it to Tampa. And that was the last time Allie would ever speak to her friend.
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253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And then maybe one day when you have nothing to listen to, you can listen to it, okay? I work really, really hard on that show and it is my baby. And it surprises me how many listeners of Murder With My Husband still don't even know that Into The Dark exists. So yes, that is my solo show. I do basically the same thing I do over here.
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253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
By Monday morning, Zach and Christina were back on the road. And as we know, Eileen is no longer with them. Now, I'm not sure where they went that afternoon, but it seems they spent those early hours probably looking for a place to dump Eileen's body. And I know that by Monday night, April 23rd, they were knocking on the door of their good friend Mike back in the Miami area.
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253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Now, when they arrived to Mike's house, he's like, Guys, where's Eileen? He knew the three of them had been on this road trip together, so it's a little strange that just Christina and Zach are showing up. Christina's like, oh Mike, Eileen ran away. Now Mike doesn't buy this for a second. He can sense that something is up. The two are acting weird. It doesn't take long for Zach to break it.
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He looks at Mike and says, Eileen is dead. Jetzt ist Mike offensichtlich von dieser Nachricht witzig. Ich meine, er hat auch Freunde mit Eileen. Und auch zwei seiner wirklich guten Freunde, die in einer Gruppe mit Eileen sind, sitzen in seinem Zuhause, actieren wirklich seltsam und sagen, dass Eileen tot ist.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Aber es ist nicht bis Christina den Raum verlässt, dass Mike die Details aus Zack bekommt. Und hier ist, was Zack Mike sagt. Okay. He claims that on Sunday night, the night before, Christina killed her. He didn't see or hear it happen, but when he woke up that morning, apparently Eileen was dead in the bed next to him. He woke up, tried to give her CPR, which wasn't working.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And when he told Christina he was going to call 911, she stopped him. And when Mike's like, dude... Warum? Er sagt, naja, ich habe sie gehört, weil ich Christina schützen wollte. Ich meine, sie hat Eileen getötet. Aber er gibt ihm auch eine ziemlich gute Beschreibung davon, wo sie das Körper verlassen haben. Was definitiv eine nützliche Sache ist in dieser Versöhnung. Außer jetzt...
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Mike's worrying for his own life. He's thinking, okay, I just let a murderer, maybe two, who killed a girl yesterday, into my home. And now they're confessing to me that they've done it. This is dangerous. Am I next? Who knows what these people are capable of? So Mike pulls a really smart move. When the couple passes out on his couch, He takes a photo of the two of them.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And then he goes on Google Maps to try and find the exact location Zach was talking about. And it isn't hard for him to find that abandoned cul-de-sac in the small, rural Florida town. Finally, he goes on Facebook and finds Christina's father. Because Mike knows Christina's dad's a police officer. Obviously, she's told him a million times. And he thinks, I've got to reach out to her dad.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
What you're getting today is basically what I do on Into The Dark. Okay, that being said, let's jump in to today's case. Okay, so let's be honest, you guys. We have seen parents do some pretty unthinkable things for their kids on this show. We have seen parents who hide evidence. We have seen parents who hide bodies, even attempting murder themselves for their children.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
He sends him the photo he just snapped of the couple on his couch and tells Colonel Tony that he has some really important news to share about his daughter. And Colonel Tony doesn't hesitate, okay? He tells Mike, meet me at a gas station nearby. So Mike pulls up to this gas station. Colonel Tony is there. And he really can't hold it in. Mainly because he's worried for his own safety now.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
He tells Colonel Tony outright, your daughter just killed someone. Und wenn Colonel Tony realisiert, wie ernst das Ding war, das Mike ihm erzählen musste, sagt er, nein, wir machen das hier nicht und verpasst keinen Zeit, Mike an der Station zu bringen, um ein formelles Statement zu machen, was das ist.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
In Wahrheit, er bekommt sogar zwei andere Offiziere, um die Frage zu machen, weil er weiß, dass das ein Interessekonflikt ist. So despite Christina saying that her father could protect her from anything, that is definitely not what this scenario is shaping up to be.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Colonel Tony Arojo takes this statement very seriously, especially when they learn from the Franklin County Sheriff's Department, hey, we did find a body. They try to corroborate Mike's story of what Zach and Christina had told him. They call Franklin County Sheriff's Department, they're like, Yeah, we found the body exactly where Zack had told Mike it would be.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
So that same day, Colonel Arojo has Mike take a look at a photograph of the victim and he confirms without a doubt, yes, that is my friend Eileen Seiden. So what does Colonel Arojo do? Well, it's the opposite of what his daughter Christina has been threatening all this time. He doesn't actually help her get away with anything. Instead, he coordinates her arrest.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Within hours, police are circling Mike's home with arrest warrants for 30-year-old Zachary Abel and 38-year-old Christina Arojo. They were transported back to Franklin County and were later charged with first-degree murder. But thanks to a series of complicated delays during the pandemic, it would actually take six years before there was any movement in this case.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
So, like I said, the arrest happens in 2018 and the murder happens in 2018. It's not until January 2024, one year ago from the time I'm recording this, that Zachary Abel stands trial first. He is pleading not guilty to those first degree murder charges. But eight months prior to that, Christina actually accepted a plea deal to lesser charges of second degree murder.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Along with that deal came 25 years in prison and the agreement to testify against Zachary Abel in court. You know, just your typical two-person involved murder, who's going to turn on who. And it's exactly what happened. Christina Araujo becomes the star witness in Zach's trial. And for the first time, she reveals more details on what had happened that evening in room 15.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Or at least, we get her version of it. Here's what she said. That Sunday night, the three of them were just relaxing in the room after a day of heavy drinking. But Zach was not acting like himself. She said, whenever he was drunk, he became more aggressive. And this is exactly what happened when Eileen posed one tiny question to Christina that night. She said, Christina, guess what?
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
now christina doesn't know what eileen is gonna say but according to her zach clearly knew what she was about to say because he snaps she says he gets up walks over to eileen and starts hitting her in the face screaming at her and asking her why she's always got to start problems christina gets in and she gets involved in it but For different reasons.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
She wants to know what Eileen was going to say. She wants to know what Zach was trying to cover up. She says violence was a normal thing in this throuple. So when she can't break up what's happening between Zachary and Eileen, she says she just leaves the room to catch her breath.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And when she came back 15 minutes later, Zach was in the bathroom with Eileen and he had that shower curtain rod in his hand and was beating Eileen with it. Now, Christina said he moved her back to the bedroom where he began hitting her with a wooden walking stick and he hit her so hard that he broke it.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
That's when Christina claimed she got in between Zack and Eileen because this was too much for her to bear. Wow, I'm so glad that eventually at this point it was too much. She said Zack stopped beating her. Eileen was still laying there. You remember the autopsy? Absolutely broken. She said she and Zach passed out shortly after from exhaustion, thinking they would all wake up.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Eileen would be injured, but would be alive. She says when they woke up the next morning, they realized that wasn't the case, that Zach had beaten her to death. christina nur verurteilt hat, dass sie den krimi verhindert hatte, weil sie furchtbar war, was zack mit ihr tun würde, wenn sie nicht helfen würde.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
ich weiß nicht, wie viel von christina's account vertraut werden kann, nachdem wir wissen, dass sie in der Vergangenheit gewalttätige Tendenzen hatte und klar gegen eileen abwesend war, aber einige der Beweise sehen sich an, dass sie ihre Beweise ergreifen, obwohl ich möchte beiseite legen, dass es offensichtlich ist, dass auch diese Verleihung dieser Version der Geschichte
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
does not make Christina look like a good person, okay? The bruising on Eileen's body was consistent with a shower curtain rod, one that was confirmed to have a palm print on it that matched Zach's, which doesn't match Zach's version of events. Detectives also testified that they found broken shards of wood in the motel room, again with Eileen's DNA on it.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
So Christina is saying how the murder happened does kind of match up as far as the murder weapons. However, Zachary Ables' defense at trial painted a totally different picture. They said Christina was the aggressor and she had acted alone.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Evidence that was supposedly visible in the photo Mike took of the couple sleeping on the couch because in that photo, Christina's hands and feet are covered in bruises. Nichtsdestotrotz gab es die 150 Textmessungen, die sie zu Zack und Eileen geliefert hat, als sie sie auf der Reise verlassen haben. Viele davon sprachen von den körperlichen Schäden, die sie von ihnen verursachen würde.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Als sie sie wieder gesehen haben, hat sie sie bedroht. Sie haben auch darüber gesprochen, dass Christina von Zack gesagt hat, dass er den Kürtelrahmen holen würde, damit er seinen Prinz verlassen würde. Dass sie fast die ganze Zeit den Bus gefahren hätte. Das war alles kalkuliert. Etwas, das wurde veröffentlicht, als ein Beobachtungsvideo die beiden nach den Mördern gefangen hat.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
In this, Christina's driving Zach's car and he's riding in the passenger seat. The defense argued, Zach had no reason for wanting Eileen dead, but Christina Arojo did. Jealousy. But the jury didn't buy the idea that either of them sat idly by while this crime was committed. And when they returned from deliberations, they found Zachary Abel guilty of second-degree murder instead.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
But their friend Mike, who is probably the closest to all of the people involved in this case, he thinks that might have been a mistake. He says he doesn't think Zach is the kind of man who would murder someone. He doesn't think he's capable of killing Eileen.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
In fact, Mike said he had a camera inside his apartment that night that captured Christina admitting to being solely responsible for the murder. Why this wasn't included in evidence during the trial, I'm not totally sure. But Mike does think that Zach was pressured to help cover up the crime.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Still, one of the bigger questions is, what triggered either Zach or Christina that night in the hotel room? What happened? Was sagte Eileen, als sie sagte, Christina, schau mal, warum hat Eileen ihren Freunden gesagt, dass sie da raus müssen? Warum hat sie Menschen gesagt, dass das gefährlich war? Sie musste weg. Sie wurde wie ein Sex-Selfer behandelt.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
But when you're in law enforcement and your job is to serve and protect from people like this, What do you do when your child is the one who steps out of bounds? Do you use your connections and your power to make it go away? Or do you stick to that oath of honor? I honestly imagine that this is probably one of the biggest moral dilemmas you could face in your life.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Well, Zach shared a clue during his sentencing hearing about maybe what Eileen was about to say that moment in the room. He told the judge that he had proposed to Eileen before Christina had joined them on that road trip. Okay, when they ran away, he proposed with a ring pop. According to Zach, Eileen said yes.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Now, was this a story at trial to sort of reduce his sentencing, maybe make the judge sympathize with him more? If he was willing to get engaged to Eileen, why would he then kill her? I don't know if we'll ever have that answer. But I do know that Zachary Abel will be spending his life in prison, while Christina is scheduled to be released in 2043, when she's 63 years old.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And I also know that her father made an incredibly difficult but correct choice in making sure that she got what she deserved. At her sentencing hearing, he made sure she knew what side he was on when he told his daughter, quote, You will own up to the truth. You will accept responsibility. You will be the voice of the victim and you will testify under oath in a court of law.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And then whatever is sentenced to you, that's fine. And that is the case of Eileen Seiden. I don't know If we have a clear-cut picture of what happened in that motel room back in 2018. But I do know that Eileen loved Zach, okay? She loved him. She wanted to be with him. And she also felt like her life was in danger. She couldn't wait to get back to Miami and get out of this situation.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And sadly, she wasn't given the chance. Her life was taken unfairly and unjustly. And in my opinion, long sentences should be served because of that. You guys, thank you for sticking it out this week. I think Garrett will be back next week for another episode. I love it and he still hates it. Goodbye.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
But if you ask Colonel Tony Araujo, he would say, duty and justice comes before all else. So today we are headed to Miami, Florida. And in Miami we are meeting a little girl named Eileen Seiden. Now Eileen and her sister Francesca are the two daughters to a pretty wealthy local businessman named Frank Seiden.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
He had the unique job of selling furniture to luxury hotels and cruise lines, including the Disney resorts. But from a very early age, Eileen and her sister learned what it was like to suffer a tragedy. When Eileen was nine and Francesca was 16, their mother died of cancer.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And Garrett Moreland is alive and well, but he is not here today, okay? Garrett had a procedure two days ago and currently, right now as I'm filming, cannot open his eyes because they are completely swollen shut, okay? He talked about it.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
The illness was swift, leaving the girls with little time to say goodbye, let alone process that they were losing their mother. Und plötzlich, Frank hatte die beiden Mädchen alleine geboren. Aber das Leben war nicht fertig, sie Herausforderungen zu stellen. Als Aileen 14 Jahre alt war, starb ihr Vater Frank von einem Herzattack.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Also wird das jetzt die beiden Mädchen, Aileen und Francesca, verheiratet. Now, Francesca at this point is 22 years old. She's barely an adult herself, but she becomes the legal guardian to her 14-year-old sister. Now, she was in charge of making sure her sister got fed and got to school on time, all while trying to finish up college and keep a job for herself.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
So, sieben Jahre gehen vorbei, okay, und Francesca endet, aus dem Westen nach Los Angeles, um ein Künstler zu werden und frisch zu starten. Und mittlerweile, Eileen, jetzt in ihren Zwanzigern, hat sich gehalten, um ihr eigenes Leben in Miami zu bauen. Sie hat einen Job als Landwirtschaftsführerin. Sie lebte in einem wunderschönen Apartment.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Sie wusste, was es dauerte, independent zu sein und auf ihren eigenen zwei Füßen zu stehen. Sie hatte es schon so lange gemacht, dass sie wirklich keine Wahl hatte. Now, Eileen built this strong group of friends that practically became family. And she stayed close with her sister, even though they were on opposite sides of the country.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
In fact, it seems she was even considering moving out to Los Angeles when she visited her sister there back in 2016. But when Eileen goes back to Miami, those plans to move fell to the wayside. Now, while Francesca was likely bummed that her sister chose to stay on the East Coast, she knew Eileen was independent, smart and had a good head on her shoulders.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
However, this is where the story takes a turn. Eileen's friends started to question some of her decisions around March of 2018. Okay, we're back in Miami. Am 25. März 2018 hatte Eileen Pläne, sich mit mehreren ihrer Freundinnen für Brunch zu treffen, aber sie zeigte es nicht. Und das ist etwas, was sie sehr anders ist.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Und so entscheiden ihre Freunde, ihren Ort zu fahren, weil sie weiß, dass Anne nicht gesagt hat, warum. Aber Eileen scheint nicht zu Hause zu sein. But later that night, one of Eileen's friends received a call from her on an unknown number. Okay, so Eileen calls her friend and says, hey, my cell's broken.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And over the next few weeks, that same friend received texts and calls from a few random numbers. Und wiederum, es war immer Eileen, die sie für etwas angerufen hat, aber sie sagte, ich rufe dich auf eine andere Telefonnummer an, weil mein Telefon kaputt ist. Aber sie sagt immer, sie ist okay, sie arbeitet darauf, einen neuen zu bekommen.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Und vielen dieser Freunde, Eileens Leben an diesem Punkt, war ein Geheimnis. Sie wussten alle, dass etwas passiert war, aber sie waren nicht sicher, was. So at around 5 p.m. that night, a couple is driving around Apalachicola, Florida, about 600 miles northwest from Miami. It's this sleepy little coastal town on the panhandle. It's quiet, it's quaint.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Niemals der Ort, an dem man erwartet, dass man einen toten Körper auf dem Weg raus sieht, um fischen zu gehen. Und das ist genau das, was dieses Paar an einem verlassenen Kühlschrank am Abend befindet. Also nennen sie es in das Sheriff's Office der Franklin County. Sie sagen ihnen, es ist direkt auf der 98er Straße in diesem unterentwickelten Bereich am Wasser.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Und wenn die Polizei kommt, sind sie überrascht bei dem Zustand, in dem dieses Körper ist. Es ist klar, dass die Verletzte eine Frau ist, obwohl sie so schlimm getötet ist. Es ist schwer, Distinguierungen zu machen. Sie hat Schmerzen von Hand zu Hand. Fast alle ihrer Rippen sind gebrochen.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
In fact, the medical examiner says her injuries are so substantial that it's comparable to what you would see after someone gets in a terrible car crash. The body also has no phone, no wallet, no ID on her. So for now, they take her in as a Jane Doe. But the police are wondering, does our quiet little town have a serial killer on the loose? Like this is a very gruesome murder.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
I think maybe last week's episode, he got his hair transplant, it went well, but geez, no one tells you how invasive and insane that procedure is, okay? 14 hours, entire head bloody, can't lay down for a week, like now can't open his eyes because his head is so swollen and it's like moving from the top of his head down and it reached his eyes, like he literally looks like
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
What could we possibly be dealing with? But the following day, things become a bit more clear when police get another call. It is about a room at a sportsman's lodge motel six miles away in East Point, Florida. So when detectives arrive, they are led to room number 15. And immediately upon entering, they realize that this is most likely where their Jane Doe had died.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Not only do crimes like this never really happen around this part of Florida, they really have two crime scenes found a day apart from one another. So to them, they figure she was killed here and dumped here. Plus, the room is destroyed. There is furniture knocked over and thrown everywhere. The sheets are missing from both of the beds in the room.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And one of the mattresses is still soaked in blood. Oh, and by the way, this hotel room reeks of vinegar. was den Untersuchern erklärte, dass jemand klar versucht und verfehlt hat, ihre Tracks hier zu öffnen. Nicht zu erwähnen, ein Luminol-Test zeigte Tränen von Blut über dem Raum, okay, nicht nur auf der Mattrasse.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Im Grunde hat der Raum gekleidet, aber es gab nichts, was sie über die Mattrasse tun konnten. Also gibt es auch Blut im Bad. Und sie finden auch, dass der Schlauchkarton-Rot wurde entfernt, And there is a giant bloody handprint left on it.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
So, I mean, for any investigation, this is a pretty big piece of evidence, which also told detectives that whoever did this was rushing to get out of there quickly. They must have just forgot to clean this. And when police speak to the manager of the motel, they get some pretty good intel as to what happened leading up to that crime.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
The manager said that on Saturday evening, four nights before police arrived, three people checked into that hotel room. They said the trio was well dressed and well spoken. They were respectful when they had a little barbecue in front of their room on Sunday night. They even brought the manager back a little gift after they went out.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And they were checked out by Monday morning with their bill all settled up. Of course, the motel staff at that point had no idea that their hotel room they were checking out of was a bloody crime scene. It wasn't until later that afternoon that the housekeeper went inside and noticed the red stain on the mattress, the furniture strewn about, and obviously something bad had happened there.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Und sogar dann, der Motel-Property-Manager hat es nicht an die Polizei geantwortet, bis zum nächsten Tag. Und ich weiß nicht wirklich, warum sie warten. Aber es sah fast so aus, als ob sie weniger um die Krimszene und mehr um die Schädelung des Hotels kümmern.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Weil, als die Polizei mit ihnen darüber gesprochen hat, haben sie gesagt, wir brauchen wirklich nur einen Polizeireport, für den wir die Kreditkarte für extra Schädelung zahlen. Now, of course, the biggest question here was who paid for that room. Obviously, there's a credit card on file and police do get a name from motel staff. 38-year-old Christina Araujo.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
But who were the other two people Motel staff saw her with? Remember, three people checked in. Well, after testing the DNA from Jane Doe alongside the blood found in room 15, police learn, okay, we were right. This was in fact the same woman. Both of these crime scenes are tied together. And it doesn't take long for them to get a name, too. Jane Doe ist jetzt 31-jährige Eileen Seiden.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Sie haben also 38-jährige Christina Arojos Kreditkarte auf dem Fall. Und sie haben jetzt bestätigt, dass die andere Frau mit ihr 31-jährige Eileen Seiden war. Also sind sie natürlich Eileens nächster Kind, Francesca. Was hat diese schwere Frau nicht genug durchgemacht? Sie hat ihre Mutter, ihren Vater verloren und jetzt hat sie ihre einzige Schwester verloren. Es ist schmerzhaft, das zu denken.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Aber wenn sie Francesca ruft und sie sie auf alles, was sie so weit wissen, berichtet, sie sagt ihnen, dass sie eine ziemlich gute Idee hat, wer die dritte Person in der Hotelrunde mit den beiden Mädchen that night. Sie glaubt, es ist 30-jähriger Zachary Abel. Jetzt erinnerst du dich, als ich vorhin erwähnte, dass Eileen nach Los Angeles nach Miami gegangen ist und ihre Pläne verändert hat?
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
He has the worst bee sting allergy on both of his eyes. If he lets us, I'll put a picture in. But if not, that is why he's not here today. Okay. It was a very heavy and hard procedure. The aftercare is intense and he's not sleeping very well. So I told him, hey, just take the week off and it'll just be you and I today. But hey, listen, before we jump into the episode.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Nun, laut ihrer Schwester war eine große Teilnahme dieser Entscheidung an Zack Abel. Zack und Eileen haben sich eigentlich seit der Hochschule kennengelernt. Und im Jahr 2017, kurz nachdem Eileen diesen Trip nach L.A. genommen hat, sind die beiden in Miami zurückgekehrt und begannen, sich in den Wochen danach zu verabreden. Aber Secretly. See, Zack already had a girlfriend at the time.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
One he had been with the last five years. Do you want to guess who the girl is? Christina, the other woman who was in the hotel with them. Now, Zack had told Eileen repeatedly that he planned on ending things with Christina. They weren't a match. She was controlling and demanding things.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Aber Zach hat seinem Freund Mike Pickavette gesagt, dass es nicht einfach war, dass er einfach von Christina wegfährt, für Eileen, so wie das. Nicht nur lebten er und Christina zusammen, sie hatten eigentlich ein Geschäft zusammen, eine verwendete Autodealerschaft. But still, Eileen was head over heels for Zach.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And every time he told her he was waiting for an opportunity to end it, she believed him. Until one day, he finally did have the conversation with Christina. She offered a different solution. She said, okay, instead of leaving me for her, why don't the three of us date instead? A throuple, if you will.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
Und schockierend, wenn Zach über Eileen ansieht, stimmt sie. Also, sie stimmen. In fact, when Eileen lost her job as a property manager that year, she also joined Zach and Christina's used car business. And when she lost her apartment, she got a place in the same building as them. But as you can imagine, this wasn't the happy solution they were all hoping for.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
It wasn't long before Christina began getting jealous of the affection Zach was showing Eileen. If she was the odd man out, she made sure her frustrations were known. Okay, she got even more erratic when she drank, often threatening Zach that she could make him disappear without repercussion. Christina's father was a high-ranking colonel with the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office.
Murder With My Husband
253. The Throuple Murder Mystery - Aileen Seiden
And she made sure everybody knew it. She often threw it in Zach and Eileen's face that if anything happened, she could easily cover it up because her father was police royalty. That he could make her problems go away in the blink of an eye. And that she had gotten away with pretty much everything in the past by pulling her cop's daughter card.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Now, I don't know if Amy gives them a reason for why she's doing this in the moment, but that's not the only suspicious thing they notice. As they're going through the house, they notice that Bruce's cell phone and wallet are still in his house.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Wir wissen natürlich. Ich meine, okay, es ist 1996. Telefone sind nicht so, wie sie heute sind. Aber für Bruce's Business sind sie. Und so ist es nie gut, besonders wenn du ein Bookie bist. Und wie ich gesagt habe, dein gesamtes Geschäft ist meistens durch Telefonanrufe gemacht. Also sagen sie Amy, hey, wir werden einen Missing Persons Report anrufen.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Aber wenn sie an die Polizei gehen, sind die Polizei so, dass er nur heute weg ist. And you're trying to say he's missing like he's a grown man.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
They tell them, hey, we're going to give it a few days before we start using resources. The families like this is not good enough. So the following day on July 7th, when they still haven't heard from him or seen him, they hire a private investigator named Michael Wasaki. And one of the first things Michael does when the family tells him what's going on is say, we got to focus on Amy.
Murder With My Husband
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I mean, the shampooing the carpets doesn't look great. But some of Bruce's friends also say that this relationship, Amy, there was just something a little bit off. So Michael questions her a few times over the next several days, but she maintains her story. Bruce went out the night before and didn't come home.
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Und nach einiger Anreise erkennt er, dass Bruce es natürlich nicht zu Lake Tahoe gemacht hat. Aber hier muss man etwas beobachten. Wenn Bruce Amy sagte, hey, wenn ich nicht morgens zurück bin, werde ich dich in Tahoe treffen. Warum ging sie nicht nach Tahoe? Warum war sie zu Hause, die Karpfen zu shampooen? Ja. These are all just things that Michael's curious about.
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Especially by Thursday, July 11th, when Amy starts mentioning to Michael, yeah, I would love to help you, you know, search for Bruce, but I actually have plans to leave the country. So the following day, Amy and Michael speak again. And this time she has a different version of events.
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Michael geht zu ihr und sagt, hör mal, du planst, das Land zu verlassen. Du musst uns sagen, was passiert ist. Sie sagt, okay, okay, okay, das ist die Wahrheit. Sie sagt, dass eigentlich am Abend des 5. Juli vier vermaskte Männer in die Haus kamen. Sie war im Schauer, aber sie haben sie rausgeholt und sie schlug sie aus, damit sie nichts sehen konnte.
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Sie hörte sie Bruce nach oben führen, ihn aufschlagen und dann hörte sie drei Schüsse. And after that, all she heard was what sounded like his body being tossed down the stairs and dragged out of the house. She said before they left, the masked gunman said something to Amy. They told her to clean up the house. And if anyone asked, tell them that Bruce left and said he would be back soon.
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They also threatened to come back and kill Amy and Bruce's young daughter, Jacqueline, if anyone ever found out the truth. She needed to keep this a secret. So this is definitely a little bit more than like, hey, he went out at 11 p.m. and didn't come back. He's saying, hey, intruders broke in, tied me up, murdered him and then told me to cover it up or else they would come back and kill me.
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Well, Michael's talking to people, you know, like he's investigating, he's investigating, the cops are, but Michael is. And there are some neighbors who corroborate this story. So one of the neighbors said that on the night of July 5th, they did hear three loud popping noises that sounded like gunshots coming from Bruce's home at around 10 p.m.
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And you have to take into consideration Bruce's line of work. Sometimes it did involve shady characters, even if it was legal. Though apparently there were some operations that he was running there, too, that were a little below board. So Michael at this point decides to take this information to police. He's like, hey, this is what I found out. She lied, but then she tells the truth.
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And then I check with the neighbors and they also heard the gunshots. Und zehn Tage nach dem Missing von Bruce, ist Amy endlich getrackt und in die Polizeistation gebracht, um ein offizielles Statement zu geben. Und da sagt Amy der Polizei, dass die Grund, warum sie nicht weitergekommen ist, all das war, weil sie furchtbar war.
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Sie erinnert sich an die gemüffelten Geräusche, die Füllung eines Pfeils, das sich an die Rückseite ihres Herzens drückt, und die Erinnerung an jemanden, der ihr sagt, wenn sie gesprochen hätte, würde sie sterben. Die einzige distinguierende Feature, die sie der Polizei geben konnte, war, dass einer der Männer einen schweren New Yorker Akzent hatte. She said she did what they told her to.
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She cleaned the carpets, kept her mouth shut. Here's the thing though. Amy isn't recalling all of this from memory. She has these handwritten notes with her during her statement. So when she comes into police, she brings paper. And she's reading this statement off of paper. Police are like... What is going on? So they decide at this point they have probable cause.
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They're going to search Bruce's house.
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So keep in mind, Bruce has been missing for 10 days at this point. And what they're looking for is basically any evidence that can confirm Amy's story or at the very least a sign of what happened to Bruce. Was sie nicht finden, sind irgendwelche Fingerprinte, die aus dem Allgemeinen aussehen.
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Aber noch interessanter ist, dass es keine Bullen, Kassierungen oder irgendwelche Einflussszenarien in der primären Wohnung gibt, die sie bemerken. Was sie finden, nach dem Test von Illuminol, ist eine riesige Trelle von Blut, die von dem Master-Bedroom nach vorne führt. Also ist es offensichtlich, wenn die Polizei das entdeckt, dass es sich von einem missbrauchten Fall zu einem Mordfall handelt.
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So, Amy's version of events, whether it was her who did it or someone else.
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i don't know how it works i do know there is a way to like clean up enough to not have it show on a luminol test because there's been times where they've like had to pull up the floor boards to find the blood that was missed so are you asking
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It's not just you though. You don't like when anyone sings to anyone in a public setting.
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Great. Your phone just got sent to the FBI.
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You literally chat GPT. Is there a way to pass a luminal test?
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okay so at this point they're like hey we do think murder happened here and when they check amy's car as well as bruce's which had been left behind they don't find any fiber or blood in either of the vehicles so they find this evidence in the house but then where did the body go once it left if it wasn't in either of their vehicles and so this is when they are like Wait, is Amy telling the truth?
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Was there a third party involved in this?
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Police are still searching at this point and they find Bruce's hidden safe in his bedroom. And when they get it open, they discover there's only $20 inside. Now, according to some sources, Bruce originally had $100,000 inside this safe in the 90s. But upon further investigation, they also noticed something they missed.
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Bruce's mattress had actually been flipped over and on the other side there were bullet holes. So it does seem like Bruce was shot while on or in his bed. Police are thinking maybe this was part of the Amy cleaning up out of fear scenario because to them there was no way out.
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dass sie in diesem Raum ihre Freundin erschießen konnte und sie dann aus dem Haus ausgedrückt hat und von ihrem eigenen Körper ausgedrückt hat. Sie ist sehr klein, er ist riesig.
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Richtig. Between that and the lack of evidence in their cars, the police are like, hey, there has to be something else going on, which is when they start to wonder, maybe she's telling the truth. And when they dig deeper into Bruce's life back in Los Angeles and the reason why he left, that's when things start to make a little more sense. So as I mentioned,
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Bruce's bookie operation was legal most of the time. There were apparently a few incidents back in LA in the late 80s where Bruce was arrested for illegal bookmaking though. And during the last instance, the LAPD approached Bruce with an offer. They said, give us a few names of other illegal bookies in town and we'll clear your charges. Wow. Das sind viele Feinde.
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Also natürlich, wenn die Vegas-Polizei hier, er wurde verurteilt, und sie lernen darüber, entscheiden sie, es gibt eine Gruppe von Leuten, die sie schauen werden. Ich sage, alle diese Leute, die Bruce verletzt hat, waren jetzt im Gefängnis, aber das bedeutet nicht, dass sie keine Verbindungen auf der Außenwelt hatten.
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But also if they were like, hey, you need to be on your best behavior, clean this up or I'm going to come back and kill you. Now, now I'd be like, yeah, okay. And then the second they left, I would call the police.
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But back in the 90s would people have done that.
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I think people just don't believe that criminals are going to come back and kill them as much as they used to.
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Yeah, I get what you're saying.
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Ja. Ja. Now, Ken was Bruce's roommate at his home before Amy moved in. But he's also Bruce's business associate. And before Bruce died, the two had started a little side hustle together. The two of them would take the cash from their clients, the cash that was meant to pay off lost bets,
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Und anstatt die Wettbewerber mit dem Geld zu bezahlen, würden sie das Geld in einen Casino nehmen, um zu sehen, ob sie einen kleinen Profit machen könnten. Sie begannen mit ihrem Klienten Geld zu handeln. Es scheint, dass es einige Nächte gab, als Bruce im Rot war und er etwa 5.000 Dollar von Ken bezahlt hat, um all das zu lösen. Police think, well, 5,000 is like chump change to these guys.
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Would someone really kill their business partner and friend over an amount that small? Here's something else strange. Remember how I said Bruce, his daughter, Jacqueline and Amy were all supposed to go to Tahoe with another friend that weekend?
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Well, that friend was Ken. Well, when Ken hears his buddy is missing and they're not going to Tahoe anymore, he doesn't really seem to care. He heads to Tahoe without Amy, Bruce and Jacqueline and does the vacation anyway. And when police try to question him, there was zero sense of urgency to come down to the station to talk.
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And it's like the worst is it's like this staff you don't even know.
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Plus, it seems like Ken was one of the last people to actually see Bruce alive. On the day before Bruce vanished, Ken and Bruce went to watch some horse races and then he dropped Bruce back off at his house at around 9 p.m. Ich erinnere mich, dass diese Schüsse anscheinend um 10 Uhr losgingen. Aber wenn die Polizei endlich Ken aufhört, sagt er ihnen das.
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Er ging irgendwo in den Stunden nachdem er ihn ausgelassen hat, was bedeutet, dass Ken einen starken Alibis hat. Er hat den Rest der Nacht mit einem Freund verbracht, mit dem sie mit mehreren Anwesenden kooperieren. Das bringt sie also wieder einmal zurück zu der Person, die am nahesten zu Bruce ist. Amy. Also nach all dem, sind sie so, als hätten wir sie zurückgekehrt. Ja.
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But when the police decide to go question Amy again, they realize they can't find her. She's gone.
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So now they're thinking one of two things happened. Either Amy skipped town Or the people came back and killed her. Like they said they would.
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Maybe whoever threatened her came back after she talked to police. So they tried to reach out to her a few times and nothing. But then on August 11th, a little over a month after Bruce disappears, there's a break in the case. A body is found in the Las Vegas desert. A couple of hunters are out in this isolated part of the desert when they notice this strong chemical odor hit them all of a sudden.
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And it's like they all hate it, but they're just sitting there having to do it. And then you don't even know them and they're singing happy birthday to you.
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And near that smell are a bunch of stones on top of skeletal remains. So the police are called out to the site, but the remains are pretty decomposed. It's kind of hard for them to make out any identifying features. All they can tell is that the body belongs to a man. But they also notice the smell. And they say it doesn't smell like the normal odor of a decomposing body, as gross as that sounds.
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They're noticing that it smells like a cleaning solution of some kind. But that's not even the most shocking part of this entire thing, as they're scanning the area looking for clues. 400 yards away, there's a second body.
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It has long reddish hair and appears at first glance to be a female. So police have these bodies bagged, taken back to the lab, and the Las Vegas police are feeling like they think it's Bruce and Amy.
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Und Amy's? Wow. Police don't know. But what they do know is that Amy might still be alive somewhere. And Bruce's family is encouraging the police to look for her. Their guts are telling them that she had something to do with this. So the police issue a fugitive warrant for Amy. And about a month later, they get a hit all the way in Maryland. Turns out, Amy has been pulled over for speeding.
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She tries to get out of it. However, there is something else in the vehicle that catches the officer's eye. The big bag of cash, stacked with $100 bills, amounting to about $100,000. There's also another woman's birth certificate, a passport, a bunch of wigs. And at first the officer thinks the road she's on is a well-traveled path for drug traffickers. So that's what they think.
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But then he sees that she has a bunch of newspaper clippings about Bruce Weinsteins case in her car. Und wenn er herausfindet, dass es einen Gefängnis-Warrant für ihre Anrufe in Vegas gibt, stellt er sie in Händen. Sie wird in der Gefängnis-Familie in Maryland geschlagen und die Las Vegas Polizei arbeitet, um sie zurück in Nevada zu bringen.
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Aber bevor sie sie extradieren können, kommt jemand und zahlt ihr Geld. Und sie fliegt, bevor die LVPD sie in ihre Gefängnis-Familie bringen kann. But there's still this big missing piece for detectives. I mean, Amy did not do this alone. At least she did not move this body alone. So they are thinking that she has someone else involved.
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And that's when they figure out a little bit more about this case. In January of 1997, someone finds a .38 caliber pistol in the desert, close to where Bruce's body was found. By the way, the bullet wound in Bruce's chest matches this. So they run the serial number on the gun, and they find it belongs to a 58-year-old man named Robert Wayne Bobby Jones. Bobby ist auch auf dem Weg.
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Und er wurde von Amy's Upholstery-Cleaning-Business beteiligt. Also, die Waffe, die sie nahe dem Körper finden, gehört zu einem von Amy's Mitarbeitern.
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Jetzt, wenn sie Bilder von Bobby sehen, realisieren sie, This is definitely the guy that could have helped Amy move a body. So they get a warrant to search Bobby's property. And then they get to his house and they notice something odd. It's that same weird chemical smell they noticed when they discovered Bruce's body.
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And that's when they realize it's a chemical they use for the upholstery business. But as I mentioned, Bobby's nowhere to be found. He's also MIA. So the police issue a fugitive warrant for him as well. And to place even greater attention on the case, they get America's Most Wanted to run an episode about Bruce's murder. And shockingly, it works. I think I need to say something real quick, too.
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Well, they just said that they heard the gunshot.
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They didn't say that they saw people, they were just saying, yeah, I mean, if she's saying there were gunshots that night, yeah, we did hear them.
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So, six more months go by. They can't find Amy, so they decide, let's reach out to the producers of America's Most Wanted and see if we can run the episode again. And it works. Again, someone says they know where Amy is currently. She's bartending at a nudist colony in Fort Pierce, Florida. So cops storm the campground, but Amy's already a step ahead of them. They say she left mere hours ago.
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Though it only takes a few more days to track her down, on January 28th, she is tracked down to a friend's home 16 miles away and finally placed in handcuffs. And this time, police aren't letting her get away. She's sent back to Vegas, where she tells the police the same thing she originally did. The same exact story. She thinks the mobsters killed Bruce.
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Our sources for this episode are nydailynews.com, caselawfindlaw.com, tampabay.com, lasvegassun.com, murderpedia.com and Oxygen. We've said it before, but Garrett and I do think a lot about how blessed we are to do what we do, that we work from our house, our studio, and that while we might be telling stories about dangerous people, our line of work isn't inherently dangerous.
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Aber sie kaufen es nicht, besonders weil sie wissen, dass sie Bruce's Geld mit ihr auf der Straße hatte. Also später in diesem Jahr, im Oktober 1998, sind Amy und Bobby zusammen getötet, um den Tod von Bruce Weinstein zu verurteilen. Die Verwaltung bildet die Geschichte als einen Enttäuschungsprozess falsch.
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Es scheint, dass Amy ein paar Freunde in der Woche vor dem Verurteilung hintete, dass sie eigentlich Bruce töten wollte. But she wanted to find a way to keep his money after he was gone. So in order to do that, she needed a bit of help. That's when she recruited her employee Bobby, who she knew was already strapped for cash.
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She told Bobby he should pretend to break in one night and hold Bruce at gunpoint until he gave him what he was looking for. That evening, Bruce recognized Bobby. He could make out his voice. So Bobby panicked. He shot Bruce, dragged him out of the house and the two used cleaning supplies to cover their tracks.
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Amy came up with the fake story and mopped up the house while Bobby brought Bruce out to the desert. Then they took his cash. Whether or not that's exactly what actually happened, the jury believes it. Amy was found guilty of first-degree murder and given two life sentences, while Bobby was also found guilty for his part in the crime and given five years. But it doesn't end there.
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Two years after this, both of their convictions are overturned. Apparently, during the trial, one of the former homicide detectives called Amy's story a complete, quote, fairy tale, which Supreme Court justices agreed should not have been allowed during testimony, because that's a matter of opinion, but could sway the jury.
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So as a result, Amy and Bobby were granted a new trial, but instead of risking her life in the hands of another jury, Amy pled guilty to second-degree murder and was given a new sentence of 10 to 25 years. She was actually released in 2011. Bobby was not retried at all. The judge felt he had already served the majority of his time for the case, so they decided to release him.
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And while both of them are back out living their lives now, the lives of Bruce's family are changed forever. Seine Tochter Jacqueline hat den meisten von diesem nächsten Kapitel gemacht. Sie hat beschlossen, die Gefährdung des Familienunternehmens zu vermeiden. Sie ist aufgewachsen, um ein Arzt zu werden.
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Aber ich denke, es gibt definitiv etwas Herzbrechendes in diesen Fällen, wenn Mörder rauskommen und die Verbrecher immer noch tot sind. And that is the case of Bruce Weinstein. Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. Garrett actually had to run out like three minutes ago to go jump in a meeting. So I love it and he still hates it. We'll see you next time. Goodbye.
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We're not out there putting our lives at risk every day to make a living. Though that is what some people do. For some professionals, danger is a part of the job description. Comes with the territory, right? Whether you're maintaining the law, working as a police officer or breaking it, like working with the mob or doing illegal bookkeeping.
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Some professions mean you don't know how the day is going to end. But there's something else that's interesting about these dangerous lines of work. You never know who will come for you. And if it does end in the worst case scenario, say a murder investigation, your greatest enemies become suspects, even though they may be a cover for the people closest to you.
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You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
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That is what we will be talking about today. So, I want to introduce you to 46-year-old Bruce Weinstein. Now, he was originally from Liberty, New York. Bruce and his family moved to Los Angeles, California, I believe sometime when he was a kid. And that's where he spent much of his formative years.
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And while I don't know a ton about Bruce Weinsteins early life, I know that he was the eldest of four siblings and he and his family were really tight. When his brother Steven got older, he decided to start a little family business with his dad. This is one that Bruce himself would join later, though we're not talking about running a laundromat or getting into real estate.
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No, Bruce's family ran their own bookkeeping business. A.k.a. this is collecting bets and then paying them off. So say there's a basketball game you feel really confident about or a horse you want to bet on. You might seek out the Weinsteins to place a bet. And this is especially in the days before apps like DraftKings.
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And Bruce was really good at his job, mainly because he earned the trust of a lot of his players. Which, let's face it, while this is legal in many states, it can be a bit sketchy. But Bruce probably had some wealthy people making some pretty hefty bets while he was living in Los Angeles.
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oh all right you guys we're back we were filming and we have our back door all the way open because daisy likes to go play in the backyard while we were filming and then garrett looked over and there was the biggest deer on our Like concrete. Like could have walked into our house that close to the door. The wide open door.
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And Daisy just looked at it and didn't even come inside.
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Just casually walking on our house.
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And then the deer just looked away and walked down into the ravine.
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Okay, we are getting back into Bruce, who has now grown up in L.A. with his family. His brother and dad started business and he is now also working at this bookkeeping business as an adult. And like I said, Bruce probably has some pretty wealthy clients. Because he ends up making a good living off this profession.
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He drove a nice car, he lived in a beautiful house, and he knew how to have a good time. Bruce was always the life of the party. He lived life in the fast lane, always out enjoying nice dinners with a few drinks. Plus, everyone said he had this laugh that was just infectious. Bruce sounds like the kind of guy you really want to be around.
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At least, that's what Elisabeth Tuch felt when she met Bruce. So, the two of them meet and then they get married in 1990. And they end up welcoming a little girl into their family. It's Bruce's first and only child, Jacqueline. But over time, things started to get rocky between Elizabeth and Bruce. And in the early 90s, they decided to call it quits.
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But Bruce wasn't just moving past the relationship. He actually decided after this divorce that he wanted to move out of LA. Though there was one thing Bruce wasn't willing to be done with yet, and that was his bookie business. So Bruce found a place where he could really build his roster of clients.
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and still see his daughter on the weekends, which is why in the early 90s he decides to move from L.A. to Las Vegas. Now, a single dad in his early 40s, Bruce was excited about this brand new chapter. He really embraced the gambling scene. He got to know the people around the hotels. He began entering poker tournaments at the casinos. And that's where he meets 46-year-old Amy Deschamps.
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Nun, es gibt ein kleines Ding über Bruce, das ich noch nicht erwähnt habe. Und das ist, dass er in einer Gruppe aussteht. Bruce ist ungefähr 300 Kilo. Er hat einen langen silbernen Ponytail, diesen großen runden Bein. Und 1995, während er Texas Hold'em am Mirage Casino spielt, He definitely stands out to Amy. She's a petite brunette who sits next to him at the poker table. They get talking.
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Bruce tells her, oh yeah, I actually run a bookkeeping business. She tells him she has her own upholstery cleaning business and works for a lot of hotels on the strip. And Bruce says, hey, I'd love to hire you for a job. She probably gives him her business card. And a few days later, she shows up on Bruce's doorstep, ready to clean whatever it was he needed cleaned.
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Aber es ist klar, dass Bruce nicht wirklich interessiert war, dass Amy zu Clean kommt. Es ist eher eine persönliche Sache. Also kommt sie her und sie sprechen. Und er lernt, dass Amy beide ihrer Eltern verloren hat, als sie jung war, bevor sie sogar zehn Jahre alt war. Sie wurde dann von ihrer Tochter und Onkel in New Jersey geboren. Und als sie 17 Jahre alt war, fuhr sie weg.
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Sie heiratete ihre Highschool-Sweetheart. Die beiden wurden verheiratet. Amy wurde wieder verheiratet, was nach einer zweiten Verheiratung gefolgt wurde. und das ist, als amy beschlossen hat, dass sie eine Veränderung der Szenerie brauchte, also 1992, um die gleiche Zeit wie bruce amy in las vegas umgekehrt wurde und ein Konto gekauft hat.
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Sie startet das Kühlschrank-Business mit einigen Freunden, hat einige ziemlich große Klienten, wie mgm und scenic airlines, und jetzt ist sie hier, wurde von bruce weinstein verurteilt und es scheint, Amy is into it. Bruce asks her out. Things go from professional to romantic pretty quickly.
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And within just a week or so of meeting Bruce, Amy is selling her condo and moving into his large Spanish style home.
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I mean, within a week, she's like, let me dip in that pool. So things were moving so fast that even Bruce's mother, Sylvia, was like, bro, you've got to slow down. She nearly fainted when she heard that Bruce bought Amy a diamond necklace and a new Chevy Camaro just weeks after they met. But there were others who thought Amy was kind of a source of light in Bruce's life.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
She was helping him get back into shape. She was helping him monitor his diabetes. Bruce even started to slim down in the weeks after meeting her, getting a little healthier. And the two did seem to be in love. They were planning for their future, booking vacations and doing things together. So about a year into their relationship in 1996, They plan to take a little trip to Lake Tahoe, California.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
This is close to Vegas. They're just going to go have fun. So on July 6th, Bruce was going to leave work, meet up with Amy. But fate had another plan for Bruce. Am Samstagabend bekommt Bruce' Mutter, Sylvia, einen Anruf, dass er nie in seinem Büro aufgehört hat. Das ist für sie seltsam, weil sie dieses Geschäft gut kennt. Ich meine, die Hälfte der Familie ist im Buchhaltungsbusiness.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Und sie weiß, dass Bruce um 6 Uhr da sein muss, um das, was sie nennen, die Linie zu setzen. Was im Grunde genommen bedeutet, dass er um 6 Uhr da sein muss, um die initialen Betting-Ausgaben für diesen Tag zu erstellen. And this is something that you cannot miss. Like it absolutely has to be done and Bruce has to do it.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Which is why Sylvia then calls Bruce's girlfriend Amy to see why he didn't show up to work. And Amy tells Sylvia, Bruce's mom, that the last time she saw Bruce was actually around 11 p.m. the night before. That was when he told her he had to go run off and do something pretty quickly. But if he wasn't home by the morning, he would just meet her in Tahoe after work.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Ich habe versucht, dich weniger alt zu machen.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Well, I think that to her, because of the line of work he's in, she maybe doesn't think it's weird that he has to go do something at 11 because there could be maybe sketchy stuff going on. And maybe if he does have to work and they're going to leave for Tahoe, he's thinking, you just go with my daughter and then I'll meet you there.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Something's off. Well, so Sylvia's like, okay, but Amy doesn't seem totally alarmed. She's kind of treating it casually, but Sylvia's like, I just don't, something's not right. Lately, Bruce had kind of been a creature of habit. Him going out at 11 p.m. at night just didn't seem like something he would do anymore.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Like, yeah, he used to be a party guy, but Sylvia just decides she's gonna call Bruce's brother Steven. Jetzt muss ich dir sagen, dass als Bruce zu Las Vegas geflogen wurde, so auch seine Mutter Sylvia. Sie ist auch da geflogen, um nahe zu sein. Sie nennt Bruce' Bruder Steven, der noch in L.A. lebt, und sagt ihm, hey, Bruce ist missbraucht. Er ist heute nicht mehr auf der Arbeit.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Erinnere dich, das ist wie ein Familienunternehmen in den Staaten. Steven fliegt aus L.A. an, um zu helfen, ihn zu suchen. Und natürlich ist ihr erster Stopp Bruce' Haus. When they get there, Bruce isn't home, which may not be surprising. However, Amy is there. And when they get there and go inside, they realize that Amy is shampooing the carpets at Bruce's home.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
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Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
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Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
Ich war 10.14 Uhr. Ja, gut gemacht, Baby.
Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
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Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
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Murder With My Husband
270. The Missing Gambling King - Bruce Weinstein
rocketmoney.com slash husband. So Steven and Sylvia show up being like, hey, where's your, you know, our family member, your boyfriend Bruce, open the door and his new girlfriend of a year is shampooing the carpets in his home saying, I haven't seen him since the night before.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Ja, ja, ja. Okay. No, but we did get a call that we couldn't geolocate. So we sort of just let it go.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And while we're recording this, we are currently trying to get episodes banked so we can go on this little trip and Daisy has had it.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Do you want to hear the 911 call before you jump to conclusions?
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Okay. Hello? Hello? But in the audio you can hear what sounds like someone running through the woods and then you hear them scream goddamn before several rounds of gunshots go off.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And after that there's no more voices, just the operator saying hello, hello.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Okay. So they heard gunshots on this call and then just didn't do anything about it. I... I have no idea how or even why a call like this could go investigated. At one point you even hear the operator acknowledge that they're hearing gunshots. So this definitely feels like something they should have at least tried to look into, but they didn't.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Not until the officers who are actively investigating Lorenzens case get their hands on that 911 call. And now everyone's like, Okay, well, we need to follow up. But like I said, it has been eight days since that call was made. But on July 28th, they trace it to a wooded area in southeast Memphis. And that day, equipped with a team of cadaver dogs, police find 34-year-old Lorenzen Wright.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
He has been shot to death and his body is already decomposing in a field from the summer Memphis weather. So, there were a few other telling clues at the crime scene though. For example, police found shell casings to two different weapons, a 9mm revolver and a small caliber handgun. Welche typisch eine Person nicht zwei Art von Waffen benutzt, um jemanden zu töten.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Also zu Investigatoren, das bedeutet wahrscheinlich, dass es mindestens zwei Leute gab, die Lorenzen Wright in diesem Feld verabschiedet und ermordet haben. Ja. Sie erinnern sich auch daran, dass Lorenzen noch alle seine Kleidung anhatte. Er hatte eine gute Anzahl an Geld auf ihm. Aber seine Wallet und sein Telefon sind vermisst.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Also das ist seltsam. Es sieht mehr so aus, als ob sie seinen Identität verstecken wollten, anstatt ihn zu töten.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Right. Especially because Lorenzen had been shot five times. Twice in the chest, once in the forearm and twice in the face. So to police, this is saying this murder was personal. It wasn't just some random robbery gone wrong. But for now, the next step was breaking the news to his family, friends and family.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So less than a week later, more than 3,000 people gathered at the FedEx Forum in Memphis for Lorenzen's televised funeral. And many of those people had just a few years earlier watched Lorenzen dominate this same exact court. They probably never imagined sitting in the same spot to say their goodbyes to him.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And while it was certainly devastating to say goodbye to their hometown hero, you have to wonder, how many of these people even really knew Lorenzen and who he was off the court? It was a question even Lorenzens own family might have been asking, because the police were now being forced to entertain one possible theory.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Oder deine Familie ist stressig.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Ist es möglich, dass Lorenzens Tod irgendwie mit einem dunklen Geheimnis verbunden war, das er in seinem Leben versteckte? War da ein Teil von Lorenzen, den niemand wusste?
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Oh, das ist eine sehr große Summe. And she believed that the box he was carrying might have been full of drugs. So police have to take this into consideration. Was Lorenzen involved in some drug deal gone wrong that evening? Hatte er die Menschen, die ihn ermordet haben?
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Man muss sich fragen, warum würde jemand, der über seine Karriere 55 Millionen Dollar verdient hat, sogar Drogen verkaufen oder Drogen fahren müssen? Also glaube ich, die Polizei beginnt, in das zu blicken. Und sie finden, dass die meisten der Geld, die Lorenzen gemacht hat, weggegangen sind.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Ja, ich weiß nicht. Es passiert wirklich oft. Also, obwohl Lorenzen nur seit einem Jahr verabredet wurde, war nicht nur Lorenzen in Alimony und Kindertagesstatt verabredet, seit dem Verheirat. Shara hat viel von ihrem Geld ohne Lorenzens Wissen, als sie noch verheiratet waren. Oh. Wow. Wow. Police begin to entertain that possibility. Motivationally, it made sense.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
However, there's a few other accounts they have to take into consideration because all of this is coming from his ex-wife and then backed up by money, right?
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So, we have Lorenzen's mother, Debra. She's positive that Lorenzen would never get involved with selling drugs, no matter how hard of times might have gotten for his family. His friends all say the same thing. And when toxicology reports come back from Lorenzen's autopsy, he has no drugs in his system. Was ich weiß, ist anders als sie verkaufen, aber oftmals gehen sie Hand in Hand.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Ehrlich gesagt, je mehr sie realisieren, dass Shara die Einzige ist, die dies beurteilt, oder das hinkt, sie finden keinen einzigen Schreck von Beweis außerhalb ihres Statements, das sagt, Lorenzen war involviert in irgendeiner Drogenaktivität. Unfortunately, it takes some time for police to rule this theory out. Time that honestly could have been better spent looking at other angles.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And if they had listened to Lorenzens mother, Debra, that might have meant taking a closer look at Shara, Lorenzens ex-wife and her ex-daughter-in-law.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Because from the beginning, Debra is confident that Shara knows more than she's saying.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
But when police go back to try and speak with Shara in the months after Lorenzens death, she's not very helpful. She's quite the opposite, actually. She's radio silent. They figure maybe she's still grieving. She has six kids to take care of on her own now. Maybe she just wants to move forward with life.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Just because you don't want to keep talking to the police doesn't necessarily make you a suspect. But it does seem fishy that she wouldn't want to find out who murdered the man who gave her that beautiful family. However, police just don't think she fits the profile. Not only is she a mother of six, she's deeply religious.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
She's in the process of becoming an ordained minister, which honestly doesn't really mean that much. And reportedly, she was now dating a cop. While I don't think there's any big conspiracy in that.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
I do think it helped police rule her out as a suspect. Yeah. After Shara, there's no new leads, like at all. So weeks turned into months, turned into years, while Lorenzens case accumulated dust. Shara moved on with her life. She became a minister at the Mount Olive Baptist Church. She ran a non-profit called Born to Prosper Ministries that helped local kids.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And eventually Shara got back on her feet with the help of Lorenzens life insurance policy. Well, sort of. Oh mein Gott. Okay. Because he found out that the money that was supposed to go to the kids didn't go to the kids, had honestly been spent on, quote, luxury expenses. I'll show you the receipt.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
It was a 32 grand on a Cadillac Escalade, 26 grand on a Lexus, 69 thousand dollars on furniture, 339 thousand dollars on a down payment for a home, 11 thousand dollars on a trip to New York. You get the picture.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
She's living big.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
By the way, this life insurance policy wasn't the only income she's made off of Lorenzen since his death. She'd also started collecting insurance and pension money from all of the NBA teams that he'd played on throughout his career. Ultimately, Shara lost that suit in court and the judge ordered a professional to monitor the rest of the insurance money. There's not that much left.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
It's honestly a slap on the wrist. But it gets weirder. The following year, Shara decides to pick up a new hobby. She decides to start writing fiction, like books. She wants to become an author. I know where this is going. And in 2015, she publishes a novel called Mr. Tell Me Anything. This book is about a woman who marries an abusive basketball player.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
There's nothing about murder in it, from what I can tell. But at this point, the 44-year-old Shara likely thought the past was behind her, that she had turned a new leaf, she wouldn't have to look back. She had moved to Riverside, California with her family. She'd gotten her story out through this fictional novel about her marriage, basically. Maybe it was a therapy in a way.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Little did Shara know that new information had been brought to the police back in 2012 and they were waiting for all of the pieces to fall into place. So back in 2012, Sharas Cousin, a man named Jimmy Martin, had gotten arrested for killing his girlfriend.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Now, when he finds out he's going to probably go to prison for the rest of his life, he goes to the police and he says, I have information you might want to hear. Can I cut a deal? They're like, okay, what? And he says, Shara Wright is my cousin and I have information on the murder of Lorenzen Wright. Und er sagt, ist das wertvolle Immunität? Also, die Polizei zeigt sich auf.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Sie zeigen sich auf die Tennessee-Prison, wo Jimmy gehalten wird. Und sie haben dieses Geheimnis mit ihm, um zu hören, was er sagen muss. Und er sagt, zwei Monate bevor Lorenzens Mord, wurde er an die Sheriff's House angerufen.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Ich weiß es nicht. Ich habe es eigentlich gedacht, als ich Law & SVU gesehen habe. Und ich habe es nie aufgeschaut, weil sie einfach einen Deal auf dem Tisch haben und dann einfach die Informationen teilen. Ich bin so, ist da kein Papier?
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Wenn jemand das weiß, lasst es bitte in den Kommentaren auf Instagram oder YouTube. Weil ich habe das eigentlich gedacht und habe es nie aufgeschaut.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So we have Billy Ray Turner and Jimmy Martin showing up at Shara's house. Okay. Now, Billy also had a bit of a criminal history, but in the years leading up to Lorenzen's murder, he had kind of turned himself around. He started a landscaping business. He went to Shara's church, where he becomes the deacon of that church, and also began an affair with Shara while she was still married to Lorenzen.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Okay. So he's the deacon, but he's not exactly rich with morals. But here's the thing. When Jimmy gets to share us that night, she tells him she can help him out with some cash, but she needs a favor. She says, she looks at Billy, she looks at Jimmy, her cousin, and says, I need you to kill Lorenzen.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And Jimmy says, after agreeing to the plan, he and Billy went to Atlanta one weekend in 2010 because, remember, that's where Lorenzen was living after their divorce. They went to his condo one night with plans to shoot him. They crawled in through an open window, but he wasn't home. Instead, they find a bald-headed man sleeping on the couch. It's not their guy. Turns out it's Lorenzen's roommate.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So what do they do? They leave. Their plan has failed. They go back to Shara and they break the news to her.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
She's like, okay, let's make a new plan. Sie sagt, kill Lorenzen the next time he's in Memphis. So that July, Jimmy says he drove around Memphis with Shara and Billy looking for the perfect place to commit the murder. And that's when it dawned on Shara. She and Lorenzen used to have a little lover's lane they would sneak off to when they were very young.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
It was a wooded area that would be perfect for his murder. Like, fathom what I'm saying.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Shara realized maybe she could lure Lorenzen out there one evening.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
According to Jimmy, she says, I will lure Lorenzen, my ex-husband, out to our old Lover's Lane meeting area, promising having some sexy text messages.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And Jimmy and Billy could just be lying in wait.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So this does make sense to police because they noticed that in the days leading up to Lorenzen coming to Memphis, Shara had been texting him a lot. And it was a lot of flirty texts that seemingly made Lorenzen hopeful for a future between the two of them. And I think it's important to note that
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Lorenzen's friend came forward after his murder and said that right before his murder, Lorenzen had told him he was thinking about getting back together with Shara. But the text didn't stop when Lorenzen arrived on the night of the murder while Lorenzen was at his friend's son's basketball game. Lorenzen had received a bunch of X-rated text messages from Shara.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So when police look back on them, they think, while Jimmy could be making all of this up to get out of a bad sentence.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
It kind of all lines up. It makes sense. But his account doesn't end there. Jimmy says on the night, Shara decided it was time to go through with the plan. He wasn't actually in town. Jimmy wasn't in town. He was in Batesville, Mississippi. Which is why Shara and Billy ended up committing the murder alone. So that night, according to Jimmy... Billy was already waiting in the woods.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Shara, who had lured Lorenzen back into her arms, told him she needed him to come along with her to pick up some money from a guy. She had chosen their old lover's lane spot to do it. And when they get there, Shara and Lorenzen get out of the car. And that's when Billy starts to approach. And then he points his gun at Lorenzen. But apparently the NBA star starts running.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So Billy chases after him and Cher is not too far behind. Both of them took off after Lorenzen, where he was frantically getting his cell phone out to make that 911 call.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And then the shots are fired. Now Jimmy says when he came back to town, Cher told him everything that had happened, that they had pulled off the murder, where exactly they had done it, and where she asked Jimmy to help them dispose of the murder weapons.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So, Jimmy essentially tells the police, not only do I have this account to help you close this NBA Stars murder, I can also tell you where they disposed of the weapons.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
He says the guns were tossed in a lake in northern Mississippi. Police are like, okay, if we can find these weapons, then we can validate Jimmy's story and we have enough to prosecute.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So they take a little trip 45 minutes southeast to the town of Walnut, Mississippi, and they do a pretty substantial sweep of the lake for the guns. And nothing. You don't find anything. So they're thinking, okay, is Jimmy just leading us on for some sort of immunity? Did he play us pretty good? Keep in mind, this is all in 2012, two years after Lorenzens murder.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
But because they can't validate Jimmy's story, police just sit on this information for years. They don't tell anybody. They just keep it in the case notes.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
He's like, there's not enough for us to arrest Sheriff or Billy. And as time passes, new leads come in, tips that continue to lead to dead ends. And eventually new investigators are put on the case to give it a fresh set of eyes. Still, nothing comes of it. And then this goes round and round for five more years. No one in Memphis can get the mystery of Lorenzen Wright's death out of their heads.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
I mean, you have to think he's a hometown hero and he was just murdered in a field and no one knows what happened. Which is why in 2017, some of those detectives look back at Jimmy's claims and think, okay, Jimmy, der Cousin, sagt nicht nur, dass er wusste, was passiert ist. Er wusste auch über diese sexy Textmessage. Shara hatte Lorenzen gesendet, was ihr Plan war, richtig? Er ist Sharas Cousin.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Also hat er eine direkte Linie zu ihr. Sie sind so, es fühlt sich an, als könnte es wahr sein. Vielleicht gibt es etwas zu dieser Geschichte. Also entscheiden sie, den Fluss noch einmal zu schweben. Also, lasst uns den Fluss all diese Jahre später beobachten.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
They send a dive team down to the lake and this time they find a gun. When it's sent back to the crime lab, police confirm it matches the ballistics found at the crime scene. Which means Jimmy Martin was telling the truth.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
No, no, he murdered his girlfriend.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So to be clear, this confession doesn't give Jimmy immunity from the time he's serving for killing his girlfriend, but it gives him immunity for the crimes against Lorenzen. So they're like, we're not going to let you get out on murdering your girlfriend, but we're not going to charge you for your involvement in this case.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Wow. Nun, ich habe darüber nachgedacht, während ich diesen Fall gemacht habe, und es ist sie, sie nimmt diesen Plan aus, um ihren Ex-Husband zu töten, mehr als sie weiß darüber, richtig, sie ist mit zwei anderen Jungs involviert, wahrscheinlich.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Und dann geht sie einfach auf, ihr Leben zu leben, ein Cadillac zu kaufen, ein Haus zu kaufen, sich mit einem Polizisten zu verabschieden, wie mit diesem riesigen, warte, denkt sie, okay, es ist vorbei, ich habe mich nicht getroffen, initialerweise werde ich nie getroffen.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Yeah, well, maybe she needed the life insurance payout because he wasn't paying child support. They were out of money.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Yes, they like went to her.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Money is the motive. Okay. But I'm just sitting here wondering if like when the cops showed up, did she think in her head, I knew this day would always come? No, no, no.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Es ist verrückt, dass du das in deinem Kopf hast. Jeden Tag könnten die Polizisten aufstehen und mich verabschieden.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Also, in erster Linie hat sie nicht schuldig gebeten zu all den Angelegenheiten, aber im Juli 2019 hat sie das Gebet verabschiedet zu schuldig für die Veranstaltung von Verteidigungsmörder. Also, sie ist so, wie ich es in weniger Zeit bekommen werde, wenn ich einfach sage, ja, ich habe die Idee gemacht, aber ich habe ihn nicht tatsächlich ermordet. Okay. Ja.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So as a result, she was given 30 years in prison instead of the life sentence she was facing. And as for Billy Ray Turner, he was found guilty on all three charges and sentenced to life in prison. So Billy gets life, she gets 30.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Right. So, at Shara's change of plea hearing, Lorenzen's mother, Debra, actually thanked Shara for giving her her grandchildren. She says to me, they are a little piece of Lorenzen.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Six kids. And all the... And your mom murdered your dad.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And then like went on to take his pension from the years that he had given to the NBA.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
You put six kids through an unknown murder of their own father.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
But Debra, their grandmother, is like, listen, it's a piece of Lorenzen that we all get to have in this world. Because Lorenzen wasn't just a celebrity or an NBA athlete. He was a son. He was a sibling. He was a friend, a loving father. Someone who was worshipped on the court, but honestly, even more so off the court. Remember, he was giving to his friends.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
The night he was murdered, he was supporting his friend's son at a local basketball game. Honestly, it was a life that was only just beginning for him. He had just barely retired and it was taken way too soon. And that is the murder of Lorenzen Reich.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
I just, it's so heartless. And I understand that by the time a marriage reaches divorce, you might hate each other.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
You know what happened, Garrett? She had been spending this money their entire marriage.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
She had been living lavishly.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Und dann, als sie alle Geld verloren haben und der Verabschiedung kam und er nicht bezahlt hat... Alles, was sie gebraucht hat, war Geld. Sie war so wie, wie gehe ich von diesem Leben zu diesem Leben? Nein.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Sie hätte einfach nur noch einen Sugar Daddy gefunden.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Ja, das ist tatsächlich komplett schrecklich. Sechs Kinder, einen Mann getötet, der gerade gerettet ist. Komplett schrecklich und es ist mir niemals überraschend, die Fälle, die wir beobachten. That is our episode for this week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Our sources for this episode are abcnews.go.com, espnpressroom.com, si.com, aetv.com, espn, cnn.com, oxygen, localmemphis.com, yahoo.com, dateline, and wegotthiscover.com. Okay, there's something about celebrities, whether they're actors, pop stars, or athletes, and It almost makes them seem invincible.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Like it's easy to forget that when they're not on our screens accepting an award or winning a championship game, they're just out there usually living pretty ordinary lives with their families. They go to dinner with friends, they fight with their loved ones.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
We sort of forget that they're real people, which is why it's so shocking when we hear about any of them, whether we're fans or not, passing away in the news. And if it's because of murder, well, that feels especially bizarre. But you figure, a celebrity death is going to absorb all the resources it can get, the local police, the FBI. The pressure will be on authorities to solve that crime.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
But when it came to the NBA's Lorenzen Wright, did I say that? Lorenzen Wright?
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Lorenzen. Ja. Was, Mr. Autopsy?
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Okay, but uh... But when it came to the NBAs, Lorenzen Wright, even Memphis' finest, couldn't give the public the answers they wanted. And his case probably would still be running cold today if it weren't for one very lucky break. And an unwavering commitment from his family and fans who kept Lorenzens case in the spotlight for years until it was finally solved.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So, we are in Oxford, Mississippi. The year is 1975. On a brisk November 4th day, Lorenzen Wright enters this world. But a few years later, Lorenzen's family picks up and moves to Memphis, Tennessee. Lorenzen's father, Herb, was a retired NBA player who then joined the Memphis Police Department. Wow. But that didn't stop Herb from teaching Lorenzen everything he knew about basketball.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And Lorenzen wanted nothing more than to follow in his father's footsteps and make him proud. So by the time Lorenzen was a teenager, he was actually already pushing 6 feet 11 inches tall.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And he quickly became a local celebrity dominating his high school basketball court. He also played in a highly competitive national league called the Amateur Athletic Union. All of which caught the attention of scouts from around the country. And it was during this time actually that the 16-year-old Lorenzen also fell in love. So not only is he a basketball star, he finds a girlfriend too. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Okay. So, the two began a relationship and they stayed together even as Lorenzen joined the team at the University of Memphis in 1994. In fact, that year, Shara actually gets pregnant with their first child, a little boy they name Lorenzen Jr. But, despite having a child now, Lorenzen always kept his head in the game. Literally, in 1996, he was the seventh overall pick in the NBA draft.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
He was scooped up by the Los Angeles Clippers.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Ich bin überrascht, dass ich das nicht gehört habe. 13.000 m2? Lorenzen hat ein paar Ferraris und andere Sportwagen gekauft. Er hat tatsächlich ein Restaurant geöffnet. Er hat seine Freunde auf schöne Verkaufszeiten getreten.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And he's the husband.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
You're on one today. And all of this was happening while Shara was showered with a lot of expensive jewelry. But there was still some left over for Lorenzen to donate to local charities and a gross family. Eventually expanding to a total of seven kids together. Three girls and four boys.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Anyone out there who has one child, props.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
But it wasn't all diamonds and rosé at the right household. The couple had its fair share of hard times as well. In 2003, Lorenzen was playing for his hometown team, the Memphis Grizzlies. But while on the road, Shara called him with devastating news. Their daughter, Sierra, had passed away from sudden infant death syndrome just days before her first birthday.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And I can't imagine receiving a call like that. So to say both Shara and Lorenzen were ruined from the loss is an understatement. It certainly made an already rocky marriage a lot worse. Arguments between the couple escalated. Lorenzen lost himself more in the glitz and glamour of his career. He would spend nights out partying with other women.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And there were rumors that both he and Shara were straying from their marriage around this time. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Over the next two years, though, Lorenzen's career with the NBA started to wind down. He went on to play for the Sacramento Kings, then to the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And in 2009, after 13 seasons of professional basketball, the now 33-year-old Lorenzen Wright was ready to retire. I mean, by this point, Lorenzen had made an estimated $55 million from the sport.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
But 2010 would be the year of change for Lorenzen.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Now with his basketball career behind him, he figured it's time to start fresh. He believed it was also time to put his marriage behind him. So that year he and Shara divorced. Lorenzen fuhr nach Atlanta, Georgia, während Shara in Memphis stand, damit die Kinder in der gleichen Schule bleiben konnten. Aber Shara sah sich in ihrer eigenen Art und Weise zu finden.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Sie war sogar in der Prozesse, ein ordentlicher Minister in ihrer Kirche zu werden. Noch immer machte Lorenzen oft Reisen nach Tennessee, um seine Familie zu sehen. Und im Juli 2010 sah es so aus, als hätte das Paar ehrlich gesagt gelernt, wie es ist, sich zu verheiraten in einer zivilen Art und Weise. On the 18th, he flew to Memphis to spend the weekend with Shara and the kids.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Celebrating my birthday!
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And this time, he even planned to stay at the home with Shara and the kids. So that evening, Lorenzen met up with some of his old frat brothers from the University of Memphis for dinner. Again, this is July 18th, 2010. Und danach ging Lorenzen sogar mit seinem Freund Phil, um zu sehen, wie Phil's Sohn Basketball spielt.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Aber als er da war, hat Phil bemerkt, dass Lorenzen eine Reihe von Texten von Shara bekommt. Also er ist mit seinem Freund Phil, sie schauen Phil's Sohn Basketball spielen. Und dann bemerkt Phil, dass Lorenzen nur ein paar Texte von seiner Ex-Wife bekommt. Lorenzen fragte Phil, ob er ihn nach dem Spiel nach Scherres Zuhause verlassen könnte. Und Phil machte genau das um 10 Uhr am Abend.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Phil sagte Lorenzen, er solle ihn später anrufen. Er hoffte, er hätte noch einmal die Chance, ihn zu sehen, bevor er für Vegas nach Hause ging. Ein paar Tage später. Also versagte Lorenzen, er würde es tun. Er haupte raus und sagte Tschüss. Aber als zwei Tage passen und Phil von Lorenzen nicht gehört hat, hat er versucht, ihn zu anrufen. But there was no answer, which is why Phil started to worry.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And at this point, so did Lorenzen's mother, Deborah. Lorenzen was supposed to attend his sister's baby shower in Memphis on July 21st, but he never showed up. Jetzt, das ist ein 6'11", 255-Pounder, lokaler Feind. Er ist in seinem Heimatland und er war ein NBA-Star. Jemand wie das schlägt nicht einfach weg und blendet in eine Gruppe. Und Debra weiß das. Also am nächsten Tag, am 22.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Juli, schreibt sie tatsächlich einen Bericht mit dem Kolierville-Polizei-Departement, gerade außerhalb von Memphis. Now, with Lorenzen being the famous athlete he was, police get on this case pretty quickly.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
And naturally, they speak to the person Lorenzen was supposed to be staying with while he was in town. Yep. His ex-wife, Shara. And what she tells the police is actually pretty scary and alarming to them.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
She says that in the weeks leading up to Lorenzen's disappearance, these men that she didn't know had started showing up at her house and they would have guns tucked in their waistbands and they'd come banging on the door at night calling for Lorenzen.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
Shara said she didn't know what they wanted until the night of July 18th. Remember, this is the night Lorenzen disappeared. Holy crap. This is a big deal. Also, I was going to speculate on what I think is going on, but we can keep going.
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244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
So police at this point are wondering, who are these mystery men that Lorenzen drove off with and what is the box that he was seen carrying with him when he left? So to find out more, they dig through Lorenzen's phone records and they find that the last call he dialed from his phone was 911.
Murder With My Husband
244. The All-Star Murder: The Tragic Case of Lorenzen Wright
It had pinged off of cell towers in Germantown. This is a suburb of Memphis. So at this point, Lorenzen has actually been... What happened? Well, Lorenzen has been missing for eight days at this point.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Im Grunde war er das polarisierte Gegenteil von Blaze in der Schule, der sehr sozial populär und ausgehend war. Vielleicht die einzige Sache, die die beiden zusammen hatten, war der Fakt, dass sie beide in Häusern wuchsen, wo Religion eine ziemlich große Teil ihrer Leben war. Für Blaise war es Judismus, aber für Sam Woodward... It was strict Catholicism.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Like so, if I said that wrong, I'm gonna get torn. Like so strict that Sam's mother wouldn't allow them to read Harry Potter because it supported the idea that witchcraft and dark forces were something fun and entertaining. There's also some sources that say Sam Woodward showed signs of being neurodivergent from as early as preschool. But he was finally diagnosed with autism at age 18.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Hier ist die Sache, Sam's Eltern haben ihn aus der Orange County School of the Arts, seine Juniorenjahre, ausgeliefert, weil, schau dir das an, Sam hatte mehrere Male Probleme mit dem Homophobismus vor den gayen Studenten da, was ein bisschen ein offenes Geheimnis war an der Schule.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Denn als viele Kinder hörten, dass Sam und Blaze auf Social Media verbunden waren, riefen diese kleinen Details in den Händen. Sie sagten, Sam sei unbekannt homophob. Wie alle anderen Zeiten, war Sam in seinem Notbuch, während der Klasse, in der Klasse, in der Klasse, in der Klasse, in der Klasse, Ich wundere, ob Blazin wusste, dass Sam als Homophob bekannt war.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Well, that's just what his parents are thinking. What would a kid like Sam be wanting to hang out with Blaze for? To a lot of Blazes friends, there were only two viable options. Either Sam was always closeted and he had come out to Blaze and maybe wanted to meet up with him because of that. Or Sam had much more nefarious intentions with Blaze Bernstein that night.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Now, luckily, Blaze's parents had the foresight to record the conversation that they had with Sam on the phone that afternoon, which is so smart, because this is the last person he Snapchatted. It's just smart of them to record that, just in case there were critical details they missed.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And so they share that conversation with the police and then also all the background they had learned about Sam from Blaze's friends. And the police decide to bring Sam Woodward in for questioning on January 4th. So this would be two days. After Blaze apparently went missing while hanging out with Sam. But there, Sam gives the police the exact same story.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Well, we drove.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
He told Blaze's parents that he picked Blaze up. He asked to go to the park. Sam drove him there and then couldn't find him. They got separated. And police have to sort of take Sam at his word at this point. While he may have had some radical opinions about race, sexuality and gender in the past. Das ist nicht etwas, für das man jemanden verabschieden kann.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Sam wird also an der Nacht nach Hause geholt, ohne irgendwelche Anzeichen. Am nächsten Tag beginnt die Suche nach Blaise Bernstein in Ordnung. Von jetzt an hat die News von Blaises Verlust in Südkalifornien geblieben, als Leute aus Drogen kamen, um zu versuchen, den verlassenen 19-Jährigen zu finden.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
There were hundreds of tips called into the Orange County Sheriff's Department within the first few days of the investigation. And meanwhile, police were still keeping a close eye on Sam, tracking his movements to see if there was anything suspicious, anything that might give him away.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And at the same time, police looked into Blazes cell phone data to see if they could zero in on his final location. Sure enough, it seemed Blaze, or at least his cell phone, had never made it out of Borrego Park that night. And on the night of January 9th, seven days after Blaze was last seen, police did another search of the area.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And that evening it was pouring rain, which happened to be the exact thing police needed. Because it helped them spot a body, one that had been covered in dirt and tree branches before, but had since revealed itself with the downpour.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Especially the park you said you last saw, Matt.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Natürlich ist dieses Körper später als der vermisste 19-jährige Blaise Bernstein identifiziert. Auch noch weiter veröffentlicht, als die Polizei sein verpacktes Telefon weniger als einen Fuß entfernt von seinem Körper gefunden hat. Nun, wenn Blaises Autopsie durchgeführt wird, zeigt es sich, wie schrecklich der Krieg gegen ihn war, weil Blaise 19-mal in seinem Nacken gestabbt wurde.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
But investigators know he fought back. He had defensive wounds all over his hands, which means this is not a missing persons case. This isn't even looking like a homicide with everything police know. It appears to be a vicious hate crime. And the only suspect police have is Sam Woodward.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
In the neck. So, on January 12th, as Sam is pulling out of his driveway of his parents' Newport Beach home, police pull him over and arrest him on suspicion of murder.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
So they pull him over in front of his Newport Beach home and they arrest him and they impound Sam's car as evidence. And inside of it, they find blood. Blood that belongs to both Sam Woodward and Blaise Bernstein. But they also find a heck of a lot more evidence inside Sam Woodward's parents' home.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Not only do they find the murder weapon, a folding knife that still has Blazes blood on the blade. They also find a mask that's covered in blood. Not just any mask though. This was a Adam Waffen mask. Das ist eine rechtsextreme, neo-nazi-Terrorismus-Organisation.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Eine, die vor allem Menschen online rekrutiert und speziell Mitglieder der LGBTQIA-Plus-Gemeinschaft und der jüdischen Bevölkerung betrifft. Das macht Blaise Bernstein ein primäres Ziel. Die Polizei entdeckt auch, was sie als Hate Diary nennen. In Sam's Bedroom. With entries that read things like, quote, Text is boring. Murder isn't. Next to hand-drawn images of knives and skulls.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
It's embarrassing and it's gross. It's awful.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
This is his life. Hating people.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
But apparently Sam's involvement with the Atomwaffen wasn't confined to his bedroom. He had even made a trip to Colorado in the past to meet with a neo-Nazi leader. And then another trip to Texas where he attended an Atomwaffen retreat. It was literally called a hate camp.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Okay, but get what they learn at this hate camp. Okay. It's terrifying to think that this exists in our world.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
I'm honestly not quite sure how we're alive right now.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
To me, it's just like you attend this group. Bye. Like that has to be illegal. Is it not?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
I guess freedom of speech, right?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Right, right. I get it. I get it. So apparently Sam was so involved in this group. He was even the one designing the admissions test at one point for these guys. So this isn't just like a morbid curiosity. There is evidence that Sam was actively involved in this terrorist group.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Right. Yeah. Like you're known to do this.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Ja, ich glaube, sie müssen das Gesetz nicht zuerst machen. Es scheint also, dass das angefangen hat, so früh wie in der Mittelschule, als Sam zuerst einen Interesse in der Nazi-Historie der Weltkriege nahm. Und als er seine Teenagerjahre betrug, begann Sam, Neo-Faschisten und Neo-Nazi-Gruppen online zu suchen und wurde schnell radikalisiert.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Well, I know if you're a fan of true crime, you also probably became heavily involved in World War II history on the spectrum of thinking that the Nazis were absolutely horrific and what they did to Jewish people and minority groups was horrific. And to think that Sam also became heavily involved in World War II history, but was idolizing Jews.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Das ist eine ganz andere furchtbare Sache, zu denken, dass jüngere Kinder diese Hassgruppen auf der Internetseite suchen könnten und ohne dass die Eltern überhaupt bewusst sind, dass sie sich indoktriniert fühlen. Denn das ist es, was er gemacht hat. Er wurde fasziniert von den Nazis und ging dann online und suchte, ob es noch andere Leute da waren, die dieses Verhalten Fans waren.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Was also die Polizei herausgefunden hat, war, dass Blaise Bernstein von Sam Monate vorher getarget worden war, bevor sie sich im Dezember tatsächlich getroffen haben. Ich meine, ich bin ziemlich sicher, dass das illegal ist. Flirtation even started between the two, Blaze telling Sam that he's attracted to him, and Sam seemingly returned the sentiment in these messages.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
When Blaze's friends were asked why he might have even entertained a connection with Sam, they said Blaze might have been intrigued by the idea of a once very conservative classmate finally coming out of his shell and just accepting his sexuality, that he was probably, you know, against gay people because he was actually gay. And so there was something about... Like some projection, basically.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Our sources for this episode are forward.com, cnn.com, thedp.com, patch.com, abcnewsgo.com, nbclosangeles.com, 6abc.com, yahoo.com, blazeburnstein.org and cbsnews.com. You guys, hate is a very dangerous weapon, but it doesn't come from nowhere, right? Oftentimes on this show we see hate stem from things like jealousy, resentment, abuse, money, revenge,
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Yeah, and so there was something for Blaze about, you know... finally helping someone accept this. Chances were, Blaze being the kind and thoughtful person he was, he saw an opportunity to support someone who needed a confidant. And he chose to play that role for Sam. But I guess their conversation sort of fizzled out over the following months.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
That was until the two matched again in January of 2018. It was actually that night. That's when Blaze decided to give Sam his address and see where the conversation went in person. So finally meet up. Of course, he had no idea that Sam had become this radicalized member of a terrorist organization and that he was literally walking into a lion's den.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
So the police felt pretty confident that Sam acted on his own here, at least when it came to the actual murder. But when they go through his computer and the forms that he visited after committing the murder, it does seem like he told other members of his community about the murder and was praised.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Das ist der Grund, weshalb sieben Monate nach Sams Anruf die Berufe von Mörder im ersten Grad zu Mörder im ersten Grad mit einem Hasskrieg verbessert werden. Die Unterschiede sind tatsächlich die Möglichkeit des Paroles. Wenn Sam von einem Hasskrieg verurteilt wurde, würde es diese Möglichkeit aus dem Tisch nehmen, was bedeuten würde, dass Sam hinter den Bars sterben würde.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Now of course, Sam Woodward pleaded not guilty to all of his charges.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Well, I don't think Sam believes he did anything wrong. I don't think he thinks he is guilty. In his ideology, this was the right thing to do. So, he had a pre-trial hearing in January of 2019, a year after the murder. Like we see in a lot of cases, Sam's official trial was delayed because of the pandemic.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And after a long series of postponements, Sam actually got his day in court in April of 2024. Wow. This murder happened in 2018. The trial doesn't happen until 2024. You have to think about this. That is six years of the family's life that they just have to sit and wait and see if there will be justice.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Das sind auch sechs Jahre Stress, Gehörspflicht, Zeit, schlaflose Nachts, wundern, ob die Person, die Ihren Sohn verurteilt hat, hinter den Bars bleiben wird. Das ist viel zu lange, in meiner Meinung, für jemanden, der für Gerechtigkeit warten muss, besonders weil die Stecken in diesem Fall wirklich hoch sind.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
In a way, it's not just about getting justice for Blaze, it's also getting justice for a hate crime. Which, when someone is a target of hate crime, it feels like an attack on that entire community, the community that was targeted. And finally, just standing up and facing evil and hatred as a whole.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And when Sam Woodward walked through the doors into that courtroom that day, he really did look like the embodiment of evil. Wow. Wow. Und die Verteidigung war gearmt und bereit mit ihrer eigenen Version von Events. Hauptsächlich um Sam seine eigenen Schwierigkeiten mit seiner Sexualität. Also das ist die Verteidigung, mit der sie kommen.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
So they paint this picture. Sam Woodward was someone who had been battling autism, specifically a form of it called Asperger's Syndrome and obsessive compulsive disorder for much of his life. This played into his inability to maintain personal relationships and basically build relationships. which also caused problems when Sam began questioning his sexual identity.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Of course, they said it didn't help that Sam had been brought up in a very politically conservative and strictly religious Catholic household, one that spoke openly against the acceptance of homosexuality. So the defense claimed the events of that fateful night played out like this. Sam had connected with Blaze out of sexual interest. It was real.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
But sometimes hate is planted like a seed by other people, grown and watered with things like indoctrination, brainwashing, being told that your way of life is superior to all the rest. And anyone who doesn't think like you, look like you or act like you is not worthy of a happy life or, in extreme cases, a life at all. And that might be the most dangerous kind of hate that there is.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
He picked Blaze up that night, went to the park, smoked a joint on a bench, and then Sam blacked out. This is the defense. He wakes up. His pants were unbuckled. He claimed Blaze was groping him and taking a video of him.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Sam at court says Blaze not only took the video, but was planning to... Er hat ihn basically to everyone. And so Sam snapped. He claimed that in the moment all he could think about was how his parents would react if they knew that he had done this. So he grabbed a knife and began stabbing Blaze. Blah, blah, blah. This is the defense.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And actually the murder weapon, that knife that he brought with him, was actually from his Boy Scout years.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
was from his years in the boy scout he got that knife and then stabbed someone i have so many problems obviously with this version of events not only does it contradict all of the evidence the hate diary the terrorist ties everything he did afterward it's the fact that there is actually no evidence that this photo or video existed on blazes phone
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
But I think as Blazes family, there would be nothing more disgusting and disgusting hurtful than to go in court and try to seek justice for your son who was killed because of a hate crime for being nothing than who he was and then to hear the defense paint your son as the perpetrator your son as the bad person your son who was sexually assaulting and videoing someone and threatening to out them
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Das wäre sehr schmerzhaft, das als Familie zu hören.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Sie sind gezwungen, ihnen die beste Verteidigung möglich.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Okay, so what I do want to talk about, there's actually another part to this case that comes out at trial.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Police searched all of Sam's media, phone, computer. They find a good deal of gay porn sites on Sam's computer.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
As well as these neo-Nazi forms. You know what I mean? He was heavily involved in both. And they also find witnesses that say... Oh, Sam hat eigentlich seine Sexualität versteckt oder versucht, sie zu verbreiten. In der Hochschule würde Sam nicht mit diesem Kind sprechen, aber am Abend würde er ihm nude Fotos von sich senden.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Also würde er ihn verhindern und nicht mit ihm in der Schule sprechen, aber am Abend über den Telefon. would send naked photos. There was another connection they found on Sam's Tinder, where he was sending naked pictures to other boys. Maybe you could argue this was just a way for him to lure victims that he hated so much. That really wouldn't be necessary.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
This to me reads more like Sam really was struggling with his sexuality. He felt like he wasn't allowed to embrace it and still be accepted by his parents. So instead, he took his frustrations out on someone who was openly gay and accepted by his parents. In a way, Blaze was living the life Sam seemed to want and that was unacceptable for him.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Which still makes this murder against Blaze an undeniable hate crime. He was doing it.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Aber es gibt hier eine Menge Vorstellungen. Sam hat so viel von sich geliebt, dass er sich auf diese Formen konzentriert und über Menschen spricht, die genau wie er waren und dann jemanden tötet. Weißt du, was ich meine? Ja. Am Juli 2024 hat Sams Trial abgeschlossen. Nach sechs Jahren Ungewissheit hätte die Familie endlich ihre Resolution erhalten, als die Jury mit dem Verdikt zurückkehrte.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Because it's one that lurks in the shadows. It doesn't necessarily come from someone close to you or even sometimes someone you know. And it will strike at the first opportunity, all as a way to make some sort of proclamation, some sort of statement. But as you'll learn in today's case, hate never wins in the end. What do you think about my little intro things like that?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
We the jury find the defendant Samuel Woodward guilty of the crime of first degree murder. And there was another piece of paper, one that said, we the jury find it to be true that the defendant Samuel Woodward committed hate crime first degree murder.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
There was a packed courthouse this day full of people who loved Blaze. And when it was read that there was a hate crime, cheers actually erupted in the courtroom. So later that year, Sam Woodward was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
As for the hate group that Sam was part of, that online presence has pretty much dissolved entirely today. This group doesn't really exist, but this threat absolutely still exists, as there are other factions and hate groups that try to recruit vulnerable people online every single day. Still, Blazes case has brought this world one step closer to snuffing out that sort of hate.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
In a statement to the court, his mother Jean said this. To lose my firstborn child, my dream for the future, my partner in fun, is the single worst thing that has ever happened to me. He accomplished more than most people do in a full life, and for that we are grateful. Blaze, we did the best we could for you.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
We figured out who did this, we brought him to justice, and we have worked to make this world better. Which is why Blaze's case is proof. dass Liebe immer am Ende gewinnt. Und das ist der Fall von Blaise Bernstein.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
I think, you know, sometimes it can feel like, oh, well, it's just hate on this minority group, but technically every single school shooter falls into this category of killing for hatred. Killing for hatred, killing innocent, random people, whoever happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And it's just like,
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
It's so messed up. Oh yeah, that part I just can't even think about. You know what I mean? You've done nothing.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Und das ist ein wirklich einfacher Ort, um zu leben, weil es wahr ist, es ist die Realität. Aber wenn wir zu diesem Punkt kommen, denke ich, dass es wichtig ist, zu erinnern, dass du, du individuell, du hörst zu diesem, ich sitze hier, Garrett sitzt hier. Wir können wunderschön sein. Wir können gut sein und es wird verbreiten. Wenn du Licht bist und du gut bist, wird es verbreiten.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Und das ist alles, was wir tun können, wirklich.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Und ja. Ja. Okay, Leute. Wir lieben euch so sehr. Und das war unser Fall für diese Woche. Wir sehen uns nächste Woche mit einem anderen Episode. Ich liebe es.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
See, sometimes I feel like you're not taking it in because you'll be like, wait, I'm interested to see if she lives. And in the beginning I would have said if the person lives or not.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Well, you know, I'm trying to do like a hook so people are ready for what today's case is going to be about.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
I almost just called the listeners chat. I've been streaming on Twitch too much.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Listeners, let me know what you think about my hooks, okay?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
That's why I said sometimes I feel like you don't listen because there will be times where I'll say whether they live or die.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
There's criticism and then there's just plain rude. That's not plain rude.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
That was a good sentence, I felt like.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Okay, we're starting the case. We're starting the hate never wins case. So let's head over to Orange County, California, where Blaze Bernstein was born on April 27th, 1998.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
His name is Blaze Bernstein.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Blaise kommt aus einer wirklich liebenden Familie. Er wurde 1998 geboren. Er hat zwei andere Brüder. Seine Mutter Jean ist ein ehemaliger Arbeiter und sein Vater Gideon ist Partner bei einer finanziellen Konsultationsfirma. Und sie sehen wirklich aus wie diese ernsten, unterstützenden Eltern, weil sie beobachten, dass Blaise ein bisschen ein quirkierter Kind war. Er war ein bisschen unangenehm.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Und er hatte viele Interessen und sie wollten ihm die Möglichkeit geben, sie alle zu entdecken. Reiten, Kochen, Partizipieren in seinem lokalen Synagog. Blaise hat alles getan. Und er war der Art von Person, der immer andere in Berücksichtigung nahm. He was warm, thoughtful, respectful of everyone. The kind of kid you would instantly connect with, fall in love with.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Even in 2016, when he made the trip east from California to attend the Ivy League school, the University of Pennsylvania. I was born two years before him, so we're kind of on the same timeline a little bit here. So he's in Ivy League, which I wasn't. So there, Blaze chose to become a pre-med student with dreams of one day becoming a doctor.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
In the meantime, he found a place where his love for writing and food could intersect, as he became a copy editor for the campus' food-driven magazine, Pen Appetit. Kind of, that's kind of smart. But Blaze never lost sight of his roots. Every school break, he made his way west to his family home in Orange County, California, to unwind and reconnect.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
See old friends, stop by the local synagogue, celebrate holidays and old traditions, which was exactly what the 19-year-old Blaze was doing in the winter of 2017. So it's winter break and like every year blaze celebrated hanukkah with his family while he the budding chef took to the kitchen to prepare them a lavish feast.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
As winter break sped by the holidays turned into new year's eve and before blaze knew it it was now january of 2018. But he still had another week or two before he was to be summoned back to campus for his next semester. So Blaze made the most of it, seeing friends any opportunity he got. But on the night of January 2nd, 2018...
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Blaise sah nicht, wie er seinen Eltern erzählen konnte, worin er sich befasst hatte. Nach allem, er war jetzt ein College-Student. Jede Verzweiflung, die er in der Hochschule hatte, war wahrscheinlich nicht mehr auf dem Tisch. Alle, die es beobachten, war, dass Blaise das Haus etwas später am Abend verlassen hatte, um sich mit einem Freund zu treffen.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And he's the husband.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
But the following morning, Blaze was scheduled for a dentist appointment. His mother, Jean, was actually planning to meet him there. But when she got to the waiting room and realized Blaze was a no-show, she sensed that something was wrong. It was completely unlike Blaze to miss a responsibility like that.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Now that he wasn't answering his cell phone either, it sent a chill down his mother's spine. So she rushed home, raced right to Blazes bedroom and that's when it was undeniable to her that something was really wrong here. Blazes retainer, wallet, keys and glasses were all still in his bedroom. As were his bags that he had brought home from college.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Which told Gene that Blaze wasn't planning to stay out overnight from the night before. Doesn't matter who he was with. But not only was Blaze not answering his phone, his Find My Friends app, meaning his location services of his phone, were no longer being shared with anyone. His location had been turned off.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
So that's when Blaze's parents began calling every friend they could think of to try and find their son. But not a single one of his friends seemed to know where Blaze was or what he had done the night before. So next thing his parents do is call Verizon just to see if they can tell them where Blaze made any recent phone calls using his phone number.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Only they confirm that Blaze hadn't made any phone calls since they had last seen him. And when they check Blazes laptop, they don't find any text messages or Facebook messages that seem alarming either. So not only is there no sign of where 19-year-old Blaze went, it's also unclear who he met up with the night before. Which means the next stop is to the Orange County Sheriff's Department.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Now, Blazes Mom says, at first, the Orange County Sheriff's Department did not seem too alarmed by Blazes disappearance. They actually tell her that 100% of the time that kids his age go missing, they are actually out on a, quote, booty call. So while I do 100% is a that's a crazy broad statement there. We could have just went to 99. You know what I mean?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
So while they do get a missing persons report filed, it doesn't seem like there's this huge urgency for the police to begin an investigation that day. So the Bernsteins sort of feel like they're on their own for right now, which is when Gene and Gideon, his parents, get their 14-year-old daughter, Bo, to help them with another angle.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Because we all know any 14-year-old kid excels at social media, especially in 2018. And that's when she tells him, look, we should probably check Blaze's Snapchat account. Now the Bernsteins get lucky because Blazes username and password are saved in his iCloud Keychain on his laptop. So they don't actually have to try to get in or guess anything.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Ja, oder er hatte ihn einfach nicht auf seinem Computer. Also können sie in seinen Snapchat loggen. Und sie sehen, dass Blaze seine Adresse an jemanden sendet, die Nacht davor, bevor er vermisst wurde. Nun, sie wissen nicht, wer der User ist, aber sie senden dem User ein DM, sagen, hey, kannst du uns anrufen? Und dann sind sie einfach so glücklich, dass diese Person antwortet.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Und schockierend sind sie es. A short while later, they get a call from another kid in the area, someone Blaze had gone to high school with, a kid that they'd never heard of, named Samuel Woodward. Now they ask Sam, did you see Blaze last night? Like, obviously, you...
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
found our dm and called us and they tell him like he hasn't come home we're looking for any help we can get we just want to locate him and sam actually seems pretty cooperative with the family he tells gideon that he and blaze actually did see each other last night that it was super spur of the moment they both were in town and decided that they hadn't seen each other in a while and they should get together and catch up sam says so when we decided to hang out i drove over to blaze's house and picked him up around 11 p.m
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
But Blaze then asked Sam to drive him to a place called Borrego Park that's nearby so they could meet up with another one of his friends too. So quick synopsis. According to Sam, Blaze Snapchats him, gives him his address, Sam goes and picks him up. And then when he picks him up and they're driving, he says, actually, can we go to this park and meet up with another one of my friends?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And just remember before you're like, he hates this. He hates it. Remember?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
And Sam said he did what he asked of him. Now, I do just want to clarify here, we are in a very typically safe area of Orange County.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
So he and Blaze went to the park, according to Sam. They both got out of the car. Sam asked him, yeah, who are we meeting? And Blaze said, oh, you'll see soon. Then Sam claimed he went over to the public restroom in the park. But when he came back, Blaze was nowhere to be found. Sam's like, Did he wander off? So he strolled around the park for a bit, calling out for Blaze.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
He didn't see or hear anything. So Sam just gets back in his car and he's like, what do I do? So he heads home and he doesn't see Blaze again after that. Now there's a few other messages that they found between Blaze and Sam that actually seem to corroborate this version of events. Because Sam sent Blaze a few Snapchats afterward that night asking, hey, where did you go? I can't find you.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
He's a full-blown hater. He still hates true crime and genuinely does not enjoy listening to these cases.
Murder With My Husband
261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
What's going on? And before Sam hangs up on the phone with Blaze's dad Gideon, he says, quote, I'm sorry. I want to find Blaze as much as you do. So he seems like he can be trusted, but here's where things get strange. When Blaze's parents start calling around to Blaze's friends asking, hey, yeah, he was last seen with Sam Woodward. Do you know this guy? Was Blaze and him friends?
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Well, his friends start saying, uh, this isn't a very good sign. Blaze's friends tell his parents, Sam Woodward is actually kind of a dangerous individual.
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261. A Hate That Killed - The Life and Death of Blaze Bernstein
Also ein bisschen über 20-jährigen Sam. Er ging zur Orange County School of the Arts für High School mit Blaze. Und viele der Kinder da sagten, er war ein bisschen ruhig, ausgedrückt, er war definitiv ein Introvert, dass er nicht wirklich einen Grupp von Kindern hatte, mit denen er mitgehalten hat.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und jetzt hat Susan drei Leben zu schützen, ihre und ihre zwei Kinder. This is all while Jeff lived his life doing whatever he wanted, including dating women. Like he would just cheat all the time. He gave Susan an STI that he had gotten from one of the women he was sleeping with. It's really so much for Susan or anyone to bear.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And with Jeff literally threatening to kill her if she tries to leave again. That's when Susan realized. And this is Garrett literally just said this. auf der letzten Woche. Aber Susan kommt zu dem Verständnis, er wird mich nie in Frieden lassen. Ich werde sterben. Also ist es entweder... Killed or be killed, man. Also am Abend des 13. Januar 2003 würde diese Entscheidung gemacht werden.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So that evening, Jeff came home from his weekly boxing lesson with a look in his eye. Susan knew it all too well. Jeff was high on cocaine. And that's when he started taunting the now four-year-old Bradley, trying to get him to box with him. Jeff began taking jabs at the little boy's face, eventually hitting him pretty hard on the cheek.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And the more Bradley tried to run away and resist the fighting, the more Jeff was badgering him, calling him a sissy. Oh, I'm sure that went over amazing. Okay. Insane, dude. She was scared of what was coming next because this was a really, really bad fight. And when she opened her eyes, according to her, Jeff is holding a knife above her. This has escalated to that point.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So Susan did the only thing she could think to do at that moment, which she hadn't really done. She fought back. She kicked Jeff. She actually managed to grab the knife from his hands and she just began stabbing him in the bedroom while her kids are in the other room.
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I actually posted a picture of his eyes super swollen.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So, as soon as she gets the knife, she's stabbing him over and over again. She stabs him in his chest, his neck, his stomach, his legs, his genitals. Holy crap. Everywhere on his body.
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Well, 193 wounds on his body.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Wahrscheinlich nur Zähne und Stabben zusammen.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
according to susan she like fully admits now something came over me and i couldn't stop like once i started i did not stop okay um i mean i don't blame her i don't know and you have to like this story is just like it was a kid in the room In the room, in the next room. Okay. The reason that Susan stopped stabbing is because she hears a little knock on the door. Got it.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And Bradley is asking if everything's, are you okay? Now Jeff is already dead, but Susan wasn't convinced. So she hid the knife. She wiped the blood off herself. She walked Bradley back to the bed. She tucked him in. She said, everything's fine. But in the back of her head, she's like, what if he's alive? Like, what if he's alive? What if he's going to get up, you know, on the movies? Yeah.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So as soon as the kids are back tucked in, she goes back to the kitchen, she grabs a brand new knife, she goes back to the bedroom and stabs him several more times.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So this comes to a grand total of 193 wounds. And this is why I opened this.
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Because this case is complicated and you now understand why trial is going to be probably the biggest part of this case. Because you do have... Eine Frau, die verletzt wurde, die sich wohl fühlte, als kämpfte sie für ihr Leben. Aber diese Selbstverdienung hat 193 Schmerzen. Kann man Selbstverdienung in der Gerichtssitzung argumentieren?
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When you say kill or be killed, you will never be a part of it.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So Susan is done now. And she's like, oh.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
How is she going to clean up this mess? Get her husband out of the house without anyone knowing? The only thing she could think of was a dolly that they had outside. So she goes out.
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I told you this case is going to be complicated.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Sie, I'm trying to just give you the facts as is. I'm trying to give you Susan's history and background and the reality of her life, but also give you how horrific this murder was, how she had thought about killing him before. Does that make it premeditated? Even though it was self-defense, it is so complicated. So she brings the dolly into the bedroom.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
She pushes Jeff off the bed and onto the cart and she wills him into the backyard. Conveniently, Jeff had dug his own grave just a few months earlier. There was a hole in the backyard that he had dug because he was planning to install a fountain, but he hadn't done it yet. So Susan dragged him off the dolly, put him in the hole and then covered it with dirt.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Aber selbst als die 26-jährige Susan, so jung, ihre Atemzüge getroffen hat, hatte die Realität der Situation noch nicht gesunken. Sie sagte, selbst an diesem Punkt war sie fürchtet, dass Jeff nicht tot war. Und ich denke, dass das herkommt von ihrer Lehrerin, die versucht hat, die Anzahl der Angst zu argumentieren.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Ja, die Anzahl der Angst, die sie hatte und wie das beobachtet, dass das Selbstdefense ist.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Es macht total Sinn, dass das nicht passieren kann. Ich meine, sie sitzt nicht hier, panikierend, und sagt, oh, schau, wie komme ich davon?
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Yeah. So she actually goes back inside. She sits on the couch. She stays up all night, a knife in her hand, staring at the door.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Just to make sure that he doesn't get up and come back in. Again, according to her story and her lawyer. For the next few days, Susan says she remained in a hazy fog, just on autopilot. But Jeff's parents obviously knew something was wrong. Oh nein. Oh nein. Was in ihrer Meinung ist, sie versucht jetzt, was sie gemacht hat zu öffnen.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Ich würde sagen, dass ich viele Haartransplantationen verfolgt habe, wie Gernys, als Garrett seine Haartransplantation gemacht hat.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Also sie ist so, wenn ich seinen Eltern sage, dass es Blech in der Bathroom oder im Bett war, dann, wenn die Polizei den Blech findet, werden sie nicht denken, dass es ich war.
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Ich denke, sie ist einfach in.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Ja, ich meine, ich weiß nicht, ob ich so weit gehen würde, aber es ist so, was machst du? Okay. Also, ich meine, 190 Schmerzen, wie kannst du das den Polizisten erklären? Ja, ich verstehe das. So to the rights, his parents, this just doesn't make sense. They're like, Susan's acting weird. Why would he have poured bleach? This is not right.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And Susan actually told this same story to Jeff's boss when he called later that day looking for him and then also to a neighbor who called to check in. And after hearing the story, the neighbor told Susan she should file a report with the police because the entire situation sounds like domestic abuse. She's like, well, if Jeff really did that, you should go file a police report.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Which was actually something Susan took them up on the following afternoon, so January 15th. So this is two days after cleaning up the crime scene and emptying the joint bank account she shared with Jeff. Susan walked into the Harris County Constable's office.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Ja, nein, es sieht gut aus. Ich würde sagen, deiner sieht besser aus.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Da hat sie ihnen die selben Geschichten erzählt, die sie mit den anderen geteilt hat, insbesondere die Tatsache, dass er ihren Sohn an der Nacht des 13. war. Sie hat ihnen auch Bilder auf ihrem Telefon gezeigt, die sie hatte. Sie hat den Polizisten gesagt, sie wollte eine Verabschiedung von ihrem Mann für sie und ihre Kinder. Und sie hat offiziell einen Domestic Violence Complaint verabschiedet.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Okay. Jetzt wissen wir offiziell, dass ihr Mann im Hintergrund in diesem Moment verurteilt ist.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Yeah. So by January 18th, the pressure was too much for Susan. Everyone's calling. Everyone's asking, where's Jeff? Where's Jeff? And it was only a matter of time before someone would come to the house. and noticed things were wrong.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And that evening presented another huge hiccup for Susan because their dog had been in the backyard digging at the grave and he had allegedly exposed a part of Jeff's head.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Well, he had also chewed off Jeff's hand and she found the dog gnawing at it on their patio.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So that's when Susan was like... I've got to get out of here. So she grabbed the kids, she threw them in the car and she went to stay with her mother. When she got there, Susan's mother finally confronted her about it. She's like, where's Jeff? Did you do something to him? And Susan confesses to her mother that she murdered him. Now, I can only imagine what it was like for Susan's mother.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
I'm sure she's in panic. She tells Susan, go send the kids to stay with Cindy. That's their aunt, her sister. And we are going to find an attorney.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Yes. Well, I mean, as the mom, you're like, listen, you're not going to hide. You're going to admit to the murder, but we're going to find you an attorney first. So... They lock in on a guy named Neil Davis. And before going to the police, she tells her attorney everything, which we talked.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
But we don't want a murderer getting an attorney before. But you also... Ja, ich weiß nicht. Das ist...
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So Neil Davis, she tells him everything. Listen, like, I don't know what to tell you. Not only did I kill him, I stabbed him 197 times. I snapped. She's like, I snapped. Enough was enough. I could not take it anymore. She said, I thought he was going to kill me and the kids if I didn't kill him first.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So only hours after confessing everything to her mother and attorney, Neal Davis was walking into the Harris County District Attorney's office and he said, if you go to the address, you will find a dead body in the backyard. Now, when the police pushed for more details, Neal said, nope, attorney-client privilege, but hey. When a lawyer says there's a dead body somewhere, the police are gonna go.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So he's like, I'm not telling you any details, but I'm just letting you know this is us officially turning in that a crime has been committed.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
But he doesn't make her go in.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
The police do. They send a team down to the home and sure enough, after barely scanning the backyard, they found him partially buried. His head, his arm and shoulder at this point were exposed. He's also completely naked, aside from the neckties around his wrists and a sash from a bathrobe. Ja, genau. Und wenn sie in den primären Zimmer kommen, sieht es aus, als hätte ein Tornado geschehen.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Es gibt alles. Es gibt frische Farbe, Blech. Ein riesiger Teil des Körpers hat von dem Boden ausgeschnitten. Es sieht aus, als hätte jemand versucht, jeden Teil der Beweise, die sie finden konnten, zu nehmen, aber es hat nicht sehr gut funktioniert. Es gibt immer noch Blut auf den Körnern.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Ich bin so gespannt, was das Gericht sagt, was für eine Schlussfolgerung sie kommen, weil ich weiß, welche Schlussfolgerung ich denke, ich komme, aber ich kann sehen, dass das Gericht beide Wege gezwungen wird, um ehrlich zu sein. So, this whole thing is a disaster. Should be a pretty open and shut case when you consider the evidence. Like, they have enough evidence.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Our sources for this episode are abc13.com, oxygen.com, caselaw.com, yahoo.com, clicktohouston.com, kiro7.com, abc7news.com, texasmonthly.com, cbsnews.com, cron.com, abcnews.go.com and hubpages.com. A lot of sources. Okay, so... No matter how big or small a case, how violent or discreet it all may have been, in the end, the entire investigation typically amounts to one big finale.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
They have a giant hunch about who's done it, obviously. So they call the lawyer back and they say, any chance your client Susan weren't right? And he's like, yep. And he says, she will not be speaking to police though, because she's been checked into a psychiatric ward at the hospital. The mental break that she has suffered and originally started on the night of the murder has not subsided.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
She's still not convinced that he's fully dead and she still believes that he could come for her at any moment.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
The police are like, oh gosh, is this a lie? This is the pros of getting a lawyer before you turn yourself in. Because whether it's a lie or not,
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
She's in a mental hospital. Yeah. Because she still thinks her husband's going to kill her. Because she thinks her husband's going to kill her, yeah. So the police are like, okay, we get what you're saying. And we get that this is obviously going to, she's not denying the murder. So this is going to be a self-defense murder case.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And also they discovered the injuries were so violent that the tip of the knife had actually snapped off and was still lodged inside Jeff's head. So she was stabbing his head.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
But they find something else in the autopsy that's going to throw a wrench into her case. It's actually gonna be a huge part of the debate. Sie finden rotes Kandelblatt auf seinem Bein und um seine Genitalien, was nicht mit der Geschichte, die Susan so weit erzählt hat, ausmacht. Ja.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Neil Davis hat an diesem Punkt ein Statement an Susannes Beihilfe geliefert, dass sie von ihrem Mann Jeff verabschiedet wurde, für etwa vier Jahre, bis zu seinem Tod. Okay. Okay. Eine Möglichkeit, die endlich für Susan kam, etwas mehr als ein Jahr später, im Februar 2004. Also, während dieses Jahres, ist sie nicht im Gefängnis? Nein, sie prägt sich für eine Trial.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und als Susan den Stand nahm, war es offensichtlich, dass sie für ein Jahr sehr hart mit ihrem Lawyer für diese Trial prägt. Sie verpasst nicht einen Schlag. Sie eröffnet die gleiche Geschichte, die ich dir vorhin erzählt habe. Das ist die Geschichte, die sie erzählt. How Jeff had come home that night from a boxing match high on cocaine, how he was hitting their son.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
How later that evening in the bedroom, Jeff came at her with a knife in the middle of their attack and she fought back thinking it's either him or me. And that the reason she didn't go to the police right after was because she was having a mental break and still literally confused, thinking that her husband was going to be able to get to her and her kids at some point. Okay, like.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
This hinged on two giant things found on Jeff after he died. Number one, he had ties on his wrists and feet. If a body is already dead, why would you tie the feet and wrists up? You would tie feet and wrists up on a person who's alive to keep them from moving.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Neckties and bathrobe.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
You're thinking maybe just to move him?
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Number two, the wax near his groin that does not come up at all in her story.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
She thinks this doesn't look like a situation where someone fought back from self-defense. She thinks Susan decided a couple days earlier, it's me or him. He's gonna kill me if I don't kill him. So she lured Jeff into the bedroom, seduced him with what he thought was gonna be maybe... And then started killing him. Tied him up.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And then started killing him.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Dass sie ihn abgesteckt hat, dass sie den Wachs auf ihn hat, dass es ein ganzes Ding war und dann den Knopf bekommen hat und ihn gestabbt hat.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Ja. Und auf der Oberfläche von ihr, was ein schwierigerer Ort ist. Es ist möglich.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Also wenn du auf dieser Dürre sitzt, denkst du, das ist ein bisschen unwahrscheinlich.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Okay. So, this is where the prosecution comes in. They said, yep, we agree that she murdered him. We're not even really arguing that she wasn't abused by him. What we're arguing is that this was not self-defense, this was premeditated murder.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
They said it had nothing to do with protecting her children. They actually said, and they brought her past of dancing into the trial, like trying to smear her reputation, you know, make the jury think different of her. They said, also Jeff had a $200,000 life insurance policy. And what was she going to do? How was she going to provide for her kids?
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And that is the courtroom hearing. A trial is supposed to be the most critical part in the justice system machine. But at the same time, It's theater, right? And you hear Garrett talk about this all the time and how annoying it is. A good performance by either the accused, a witness, an expert, or more importantly, the counsel, can make or break a juror's opinion of the case.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Which the prosecution even called a witness to support. Kevin Conboy was a co-worker of Jeff's and he recounted a time just a week or so before Jeff's death, where Susan called the office. He said he could hear Susan screaming over the phone at Jeff, asking him whether or not he completed the insurance policy paperwork. So a week before she murders him, a co-worker...
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
is coming forward saying she called him at work complaining about the insurance policy that's a $200,000 payout. I don't know.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So Kevin says Jeff even ended the call saying, if I die, like as a joke saying, if I die, you'll be a very rich woman. So Jeff's brother-in-law... But very rich.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Yes, but I mean, how many times do you joke about insurance?
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So Jeff's brother-in-law, Brian Roberts, also testified against Susan. He said there was one occasion where he was at their house for dinner and Susan and Jeff got into an argument. He then said Susan, who was using a knife, turned and pointed it at Jeff in a threatening manner.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Which doesn't really mean Susan's lying, but also Brian claimed he never once saw or heard any abuse from Jeff towards his wife or kids.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And the prosecution sort of takes that and runs with it. They say, this relationship could have been toxic, okay, but is this domestic abuse... Or murder. Is this domestic abuse defense exaggerated? Was this something that was conjured up after the murder that was made to be even worse? She created this huge lie about the history of their relationship.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And because Susan didn't file a police report until after Jeff was dead, there's really no evidence of her... going to the police and filing domestic violence report or cops coming, you know how sometimes you have that evidence, doesn't mean it's not happening.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
People come to Susan's defense. A neighbor testifies and says, no, I saw Jeff angrily physically grab Susan a few times. A few friends testified that she had shown up with black eyes. zu Plätzen, die behaupten, es sei nur ein Fall oder ein Kind hat mich verletzt. Andere sagten, sie war völlig verärgert von Jeff. Sie sagten, nein, Susan war verärgert.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Doch ihr bester Freund behauptete, es gab einen Fall, in dem sie verurteilt hat, dass Jeff sie verletzt hat, nach einem Argument an seinem Geburtstag. Es gibt also Zeiten, bevor dieser Mord geschah, in denen sie Menschen erzählte. Okay. Okay. Susan said there's not a simple explanation for it.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
She says the wax from the candle came from when she pulled Jeff off the bed that night after killing him, that his shoulder had hit the nightstand and the candle fell over and poured wax on him. She also said the neckties and bathrobes, she never used them to secure Jeff to the bedpost or tie him up. She said those are what I was using to secure his body to the dolly while moving him.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Still, the prosecution had one more trick up their sleeve at trial. One more attempt at proving Susan wasn't telling the truth about what went down that night. And to pull it off, it required them to bring the rights actual bed to the courtroom. And this is where I was saying theatrics and theater. We see this with the O.J. Simpson trial. It's big, okay?
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So on the most shocking day of the trial, Prosecutor Kelly Siegler had the Wrights bloodstained mattress and bed set rolled into the courtroom. Then she asked another young male prosecutor from her team to step up and lie down on the mattress. And then she climbed on top of him to show a reenactment.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Okay. Sie sagte später, dass der Grund, warum sie das gemacht hat, war, dass man es lebendig machen muss. Das ist ein Quote. Du kannst nicht nur in deiner Schuhe sitzen und mit dem Beobachter im Stand reden und es theoretisch diskutieren. Sie sagte, ich habe mich entschieden, es auf den nächsten Niveau zu nehmen, mit einer Oscar-wertigen Präsentation.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Was hat ihr Arbeiter überzeugt? Welche Geschichte war stärker, die der Verwaltung oder die Verteidigung? Das sind alles Dinge, die die Juristin in Erinnerung stellen muss, wenn sie manchmal das Leben eines Menschen wählt. Aber das Problem mit Verwaltungstheatrischen ist, dass sie nicht immer eine akkurete Interpretation der Wahrheit sind. Sie sind ein bester Wunsch.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Eine, die für den Jurist genug überzeugend sah.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Some people call it genius, some people call it completely inappropriate, but the jurors called it the truth. After five hours of deliberation, they came back with a verdict. They found Susan Wright guilty of murder in the first degree. She was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Susan has since said that her defense kind of failed her at trial. They had a lot of regrets about how it was handled.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
For example, they failed to call to the stand the psychologist who treated Susan after her arrest. Ja. Ja. Sie hat sogar einen Polizeireport eingeführt. Also gab es Beweise, um es zu beurteilen. Jeff wurde tatsächlich verhaftet und hat die Nacht im Gefängnis verbracht, weil er seine Freundin zerstört hat. Sie sagte, er war kontrollierend.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Sie hat sie im Grunde genommen, ihre Geschichte kontrolliert. Er hat meine jeden Bewegung beobachtet. Der Jurist hat nie das Wort davon hören können. Sie haben nicht von Domestic Abuse Experten gehört. Also ist es so, als hätte sie eine bessere Verteidigung. So in November of 2004, Susan and her new lawyer, Brian, began filing appeals stating that her lawyers were inexperienced and ineffective.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
There was evidence that should have been given at trial. He also argued that Kelly Siegler's courtroom reenactment should not have been allowed, that that is made for TV nonsense and the whole thing was just confusing and how can you... separate acting and dramatizations from what actually happened.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
It took nearly five years, but after a judge also heard Misty Michaels' testimony, this is the ex-girlfriend, they granted a new sentencing hearing for Susan Wright. In 2009, a court ruled that Susan's counsel was in fact ineffective. They shaved five years off her sentence. So in 2020, after being denied parole twice, Susan Wright was released from prison.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Yes. Up until 2024, Susan was on intensive supervision. She was required to wear a GPS monitor, had to attend anger management classes, but now she's a free woman. We may never know for sure what happened in the Wrights' home behind closed doors on that night, but Susan said even jail was better than the way she was living before.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und sie hat es den Rednern gesagt, ist es nicht seltsam, dass ich in die Gefängnis gekommen bin, um endlich sicher zu fühlen? Und das ist der Fall von Susan Wright.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Oh mein Gott. Ich denke, Susan ist wütend.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Okay, ich weiß, dass das wahrscheinlich eine, ich denke, das ist ein bisschen zu viel.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und manchmal braucht es nur ein Oscar-wertiges Reinkommen, um einen Jury zu überzeugen, ob er schuldig ist oder nicht.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Um nicht getötet zu werden, Gare.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Das ist, wenn das Selbstdefense-Ding ausgenommen wird. Wenn er auf sie mit einem Knife war, dann ist das Selbstdefense.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
I'm not going to say you deserve to die, but maybe. How many times have we seen women in cases who are being abused who don't kill their husbands and end up dead?
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
It's a very complicated topic and it's a very complicated thing to go to trial for. When a woman fights back to what I think is provable that he was abusive. People saw it, his ex-girlfriend came forward and basically shadowed her statement. So I think it's pretty safe to say, no doubt that he was abusive. But you also... Ich meine, hat sie einen Mörder geplant?
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Du kannst nicht nur einen Mörder planen und damit wegkommen. Es ist einfach ein komplizierter Fall, ihr Leute. Offensichtlich denke ich nicht, dass wir beide 100% richtig oder falsch sind. Ich denke, dass das einer dieser Fälle ist, der so weit in die Gräbe ist. Es hat einfach nur auf die Jury geachtet. Weißt du, was ich meine? Aber lass uns in den Kommentaren wissen, was du darüber denkst.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und wir sehen uns nächstes Mal mit einem anderen Episode. Ich liebe es.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und du hast gesagt... Du hast gesagt, wenn ich zu einem Trial gehen würde, würde ich einen Juden-only-Trial wählen oder würde ich ihn zu einem Jury lassen?
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und ich habe gesagt, dass es auf den Verbrechen abhängt. Ja. Weil, und das ist wirklich der Grund, warum ich das sage, weil das genau das ist, worüber ich rede. Du kannst einen Gericht viel einfacher manipulieren, als du einen Gericht manipulieren kannst.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone and welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Du musst auf deine dummen Feinden verlangen. Ja. Nicht deinen sehr klugen Gericht, der das täglich macht. Also, heute gehen wir nach Houston, Texas. Where Susan Weisch is born on April 24th, 1976. Susan and her two siblings were brought up in an upper middle class household. Their mother was the textbook definition of a homemaker.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
She watched the kids every day, made everyone freshly cooked meals and tended to the home while Susan's father would head off to work each morning. Susan's father was a mechanical engineer by day and then a husband with a temper by night. When he wasn't laying a hand on Susan's mother, he was taking his rage out on his three children.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
As you can imagine, Susan and her siblings sort of had to learn how to walk on eggshells around him, as they put it. When he got mad, they learned to scatter and hide. But for Susan... Okay. Okay. Still, every day when Susan and her siblings left the house, they put on their smiles and went about their business, pretending that nothing was abnormal at their home.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Again, if you are on YouTube right now, you will notice that we are definitely in a different set. If you're on audio, maybe we sound different, maybe not. There's no pop filter on this one, so I hope I'm not popping peas the whole time.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And of course, the weight of it all did end up taking a toll on Susan's grades. But as you probably know where this is going, the relationship with her father and how he acted at home most affected the way she sought attention from other guys. So Susan said she craved male attention and was willing to do whatever it took to get and maintain it.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So when a boyfriend of hers made some snide remarks about her looks, instead of breaking up with him, Susan dropped 19 pounds to try and please him. Und dann während ihrer Seniorjahre in der Hochschule bemerkte sie, dass sie eigentlich Geld so machen könnte, indem sie die Aufmerksamkeit von Männern sucht, besonders weil sie es mag.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und so ist es, als sie tatsächlich einen Job als Tänzer bekommen hat.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Sie wurde 1976 geboren und jetzt sind wir rund um sie. Nur in der Hochschulzeit. Ich dachte, du hast das gesagt.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Nein, nein. Das ist die Dancer-Route. Und nicht der Typ der Dancer, über die wir gesprochen haben, in der UDA-Kollege-Kompetition. Ja, andersherum. Okay? Das war temporär für Susan, nur ein kurzer Weg zum Ende. Außerdem wollte ich nicht sagen, dass ich nicht tanzen unterstütze, weil ich alles unterstütze. So this though was temporary for Susan. It was just a quick means to an end.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
For the eight weeks she worked as an exotic dancer, she stashed away her cash because she wanted to go to nursing school. Now eventually Susan had enough to begin her education and juggled that with her new job of working in a hair salon. So she danced just enough to rake in some dough and then was like, I'll get a job at a hair salon and I'll start going to school.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
But those dreams of becoming a nurse were too time consuming and expensive for Susan to stay committed to. So she ended up just quitting and working at the salon full time. And then in April of 1997, the 20-year-old Susan went on a trip with one of her girlfriends to Galveston, Texas. And it was during that little vacation that Susan locked eyes with a 29-year-old man named Jeff Wright.
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But Garrett's probably going to use why we're... I had a different set for his 10 seconds. But before we jump into that, I actually dropped new Into the Dark merch, which is my solo show, if you didn't know. And I'm pretty sure there's a few left over. So if you were listening and missed it, go over to Into the Dark. The links are everywhere and snag the little last bit of that merch.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Now remember, Susan is 20. She's still very young.
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Okay, I'm just saying. Maybe when you're the type of girl who's trying to please a guy, even at your own expense.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Das war ja der Payton. Ja. Nein, ich musste es aus ihm holen. Also, als sie ihn nach Hause nahm, um seine Eltern zu treffen, liebten sie ihn tatsächlich auch. Er sprach über seine Träume für die Zukunft, wie er hoffte, sein eigenes Carpeting- und Flooring-Business zu starten, das er für ihre Tochter bieten würde. Er würde für sie kümmern. Und Susan war schmerzhaft.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Also, als Susan in den letzten Monaten ihrer Beziehung herausfand, dass sie bereits krank war, She wasn't panicking. She honestly was like, I love him. He's great. He treats me well. The pieces are kind of falling into place. But when she told Jeff, hey, I'm pregnant, he honestly seemed indifferent about the matter. He told her, I'll be fine if you want to terminate the pregnancy. I don't care.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Now, this wasn't an option for Susan. She told Jeff she was keeping the baby. And in October of 1998, when Susan was just a month shy of delivering, the two were married in a tiny little ceremony right outside of Houston. But after their son Bradley was born, Susan says she saw something change in Jeff. Keep in mind, the two had only been together for about a year by the time they got married.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
So you're still learning things about people at that point, right? And now you have a baby and you're married, but you're still going to learn things. But what she was uncovering now post marriage and baby, it wasn't just like, oh, I learned that he leaves the sink on while he brushes his teeth. It wasn't good.
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257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Wow. Wow. So from there he supposedly only got more and more controlling over Susan. It was kind of this downward spiral. Susan said she could only leave the house to make quick trips to the grocery or drugstore or to visit her mother. But if she was ever gone for more than two hours, she would not hear the end of it.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
When she told Jeff she wanted to start taking college courses again, he was like, absolutely not. So Susan snuck away one night to the college campus to see if there was like an online course that she could take from home. But when Jeff found out that she had done this, he began accusing her of cheating on him, calling her horrible names.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
And there were also things about Jeff's past that were now coming to the surface in this new marriage. Like the fact that just a year before she met Jeff, he had pleaded guilty to felony drug possession.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
But yeah, I don't want to bore everyone with this. So let's jump into your 10 seconds.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Now, according to some sources, this wasn't a big deal. Well, it wasn't a one off event. Apparently he didn't tell her, but Jeff had had a pretty rocky past when it came to drugs and alcohol, particularly in his high school years.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Und anscheinend war Jeffs Vergangenheit zurück, um sie beide zu verletzen, weil nicht nur war Jeff fast jeden Tag Marihuana getrunken, was ich weiß, dass viele Leute das tun. Aber außerdem hat Susan gesagt, dass sie versucht hat, dieses Baby aufzubauen und mit postpartumer Depressionen zu verletzen. Und er ist super kontrollierend. Er würde draußen trinken und hartere Drogen machen.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Das ist, was du sagst. Alle Nacht und dann würde er nach Hause wütend sein, weil die Drogen ihn wütend machten.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Well, yeah, I mean, it's like living with her father all over again. This is what her whole life looked like. Susan also claimed that when Jeff was in this state, he began physically abusing her. This was something that got even worse when they moved into a new home by the year of 1999. That's when Susan said every little thing, like every little thing began to set Jeff off.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
If there was a problem with a client or if the utility bills were too high or if dinner wasn't cooked exactly how he liked it, he would fly off the handles. Das ist verrückt. Das ist verrückt. Und Susan hat all das für sich selbst gehalten. Das ist das, was sie immer gesagt hat. Ich meine, du musst dir vorstellen, dass sie in diesem Umfeld gewachsen ist und es ein Geheimnis gehalten hat.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Gerrit und ich haben gerade über das gestern Abend gesprochen. Domestische Gewalt ist wirklich eines der Dinge, die man nicht beurteilen sollte, bis man diese Erfahrung lebt. Weil wir wirklich, wir können nicht unsere Meinung wo... Und es ist hart.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Aber es gibt... Du merkst, wie es noch komplexer ist.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
I told him today in public, I said, stop itching your head, people are going to think you have lice.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Okay, so yeah, I think domestic violence is just a very complicated and complex thing that you truly can't wrap your head around it until you've been through it. And now as an adult, she still kept this abuse from her friends and now her family. She painted the picture of a happy wife in a happy marriage. If things weren't good, she just didn't leave the house.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
Das ist vielleicht der Grund, warum so viele Leute dachten, dass Jeff und Susan ehrlich gesagt ein perfektes kleines Leben hatten. Aber im Sommer 1999 hatte Susan einen Ausbruch. Nach einer weiteren Begegnung von ihrem Mann hat Susan ihre Schwester Cindy für Hilfe angerufen, während Jeff am Abend auf Arbeit war.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
You have to imagine how mind-blowing this was for Cindy, who didn't know anything was going on in this marriage. So she tells Cindy about the abuse and Cindy and her husband arrived hours later in a U-Haul and they helped Susan pack up all of her and Bradley's things and she got them out of there. But the following morning Jeff called her threatening her.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
He said he was sending a moving van back over and if she didn't pack it all up and come home, he was going to kill her and Bradley.
Murder With My Husband
257. The Blue Eyed Butcher - The Murder of Jeff Wright
No, she feels like she has no choice and things only get more complicated because Susan got pregnant. Okay. But then had a miscarriage when Jeff was beating her in the stomach and she lost the baby. Aber es ist nur ein toxischer Zyklus von Angst, was man normalerweise sehen kann. Dann, im Dezember 2001, wird sie wieder verheiratet, dieses Mal mit einer kleinen Mädchen, die sie Kaylee genannt hat.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
I don't know. Frosty the Snowman.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Yeah, sometimes there's only one drop that you miss, you know. Also, ähm, ich denke auch, es ist sicher zu sagen, dass, äh, Detektivs sagen, naja, äh, du kannst nicht durch Suizid sterben und dann dein eigenes Krimi-Szenario abschließen. Ja. Nachher, richtig? Also am folgenden Tag haben sie bereits einen Autopsiebericht über Amy's Körper.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Und sie finden, Amy hat irgendwo um 3.15 Uhr am Tag gestorben.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Richtig. But they also find evidence that is inconsistent with suicide, mainly because Amy had scopolamine in her system. And this is a drug that is used to treat nausea. And not only was it about 20 times the regular dose, Amy did not have a prescription for that drug. So how did this large of amount of this drug get into her body?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
What are you talking about?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Now, typically in cases like this, the first person that you're going to suspect is the husband. But this becomes a little more complicated for detectives. For starters, Stephen kept saying that he wasn't home during Amy's time of death that day. And while I'm not sure where he claimed to be,
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
There were other witnesses who said they saw an anonymous vehicle speed away from the house shortly after her time of death. So the husband is saying, I wasn't home at that time, 3.15 p.m. And the neighbors are saying, we also saw an unknown vehicle leaving around that time. Plus, Stephen seems cooperative.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
He's willing to go down to the station for questioning, not to mention, there's something else that the police have to consider once they get to know Amy and her past. Because Amy had actually been approached by the FBI the past spring. So Amy was already in law enforcement radar.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Because the FBI was doing an investigation of their own, completely unrelated, and found Amy's name on a dark web hit list.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
I don't even know if that's my favorite. I just really want to sing that. What's my favorite? Little drummer boy.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
To have the FBI show up at your door and be like, someone put a hit out on you.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
I mean, now you understand why maybe the husband isn't the first suspect. So back around May 31st, 2016, this is about five months before Amy's death. She was called in to the Cottage Grove Police Department to speak with them and the FBI. And they asked her the one question that no one ever wants to hear. Amy, do you know of anyone who might want you dead?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So it turns out the FBI had just learned about a murder-for-hire site on the dark web called the Besa Mafia. And so they had received a giant cache of data, including email exchanges between Besa Mafia and their clients. So basically the FBI uncovered this dark web hit list place that you could hire.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So they have this website, they have the clients and then the everyday people who were on the hit list. Now, it's important to say that the clients didn't use their real names, obviously. But the people on the hit list, it was their real names. And Amy Alwine was one of them. They also had the username of the person who had ordered the hit on Amy. And it was someone named Dog Day God.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
etwas, was ich von dieser Geschichte gelernt habe, war, dass man nicht nur durch Google die dunkle Webseite accessieren kann, sondern man muss eigentlich spezielle Software haben, um Sites wie der Basis der Mafia zu accessieren.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Das Interessante ist, dass diese Technologie tatsächlich von der Militärin geschaffen wurde, um ihre Geheimnisse auf Backdoor-Webseiten zu verstecken, also ist es ein bisschen ironisch, dass The military created this loophole on the internet and now it is used for so much illegal activity. But the Besa Mafia is a whole other level of dark web criminals.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
That one's good too. That one hits you right in your feels.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
The site claims to be operated by an Albanian Mafia. But it seems like it's run by this evil overlord, a guy who goes by Jura. And basically Jura and his website will recruit anyone who's up for the challenge. Meaning they literally post invites for prospective killers to essentially send in audition tapes to become hitmen for this dark website.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Ein Quote von einem deiner Videos auf dem Website sagt, wenn man online sucht für, und ich quote, schockiert auf der Straße, wird man viele Nachrichten finden, über Menschen, die in der Straße schockiert werden, von unbekannten Menschen, die schießen und dann gehen. Das sind unsere Hitmen. Wir warten auf dich, um deine Orte zu stellen und dann deine Probleme zu lösen.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Und literally on this website there is a menu of item options from $4,000 for a basic killing to $10,000 for a shoot and run and then something as high as $50,000 for a high profile sniper murder. They say it depends mostly on how challenging the job will be to pull off. Like if the target has a bodyguard, they're going to charge more. And by the way, on this website, you cannot pay with a visa.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
The only currency they accept is Bitcoin because of the anonymity, meaning it isn't tied back to anyone's name or IP address. By the time the FBI discovered the base of Mafia, they already had a list of 282 hits on this website that had been ordered across 60 different countries. I mean, there's like 17 year old girls in Canada looking to kill ex-boyfriends on this website.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Literally, anyone can log on and with a few clicks of the keyboard, it's boom, revenge at your fingertips.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
But Amy, this woman is seemingly harmless. She's been happily and faithfully married for the last 20 years. She's a working mom who makes YouTube videos, dancing with her church elder husband. Who would want this woman dead and for what? Well, it turns out, the FBI got those answers through the leak.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
There was 60 pages worth of correspondence between Dog Day God, this is the username that took the hit out, and the Basin Mafia. So this had all started back in February of 2016, actually Valentine's Day to be exact. That's when Dog Day God first reached out to the Besa Mafia saying, I am looking to hire you for a hit, but what is the recommended way to convert cash to Bitcoin anonymously?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
After a few more emails were sent back and forth negotiating a price, Dog Day God verabschiedete sich, über 12.000 Dollar in Bitcoin für den Hitsch-Job zu senden. Und sie haben endlich herausgefunden, dass ihre Zielgruppe eine Frau war, die Amy Allwine war. Die Worte, die sie benutzt haben, waren, ich brauche diese B-Word-Böse, also bitte helfe mir.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Die Botschaft weitergeht, sie sagten, dass Amy Klienten von dieser Person's Dog-Training-Business verloren hat. But it suggested the betrayal went far beyond that because the email also implied that Amy not only was stealing clients, had been sleeping with the business competitor's husband.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Okay. Okay. They even give them the hotel that Amy is going to be staying at, a description of her car and the route that she would likely take. And on top of that, they offer up ways they would like for Amy to be killed.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
They want it to look like an accident and they don't want the son or the husband to be harmed in any way. Nun, klar, nichts passiert Amy während dieser Geschäftsreise, wie Sie wissen. Aber dieses Verhandeln bleibt für die nächsten vier Monate, als Dog Day God mit der Basis der Mafia arbeitet, um andere Optionen für diesen Hits zu koordinieren.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Sie geben ihnen täglich Updates auf Amy's Bewegungen, als sie im Supermarkt war, in der Gasstation, weg aus der Stadt. Ich meine, Amy hat einen vollzeitigen Stocker, der jetzt versucht, einen Hits auf sie zu nehmen. So when the police sit down with Amy in May of 2016, they uncover all of this, they pull Amy in, they're like, Lady, you are in trouble.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
And she is, of course, shocked about the whole thing. She tells the FBI... I've never had an affair. She offers the FBI a couple names of people it could be. But she's like, I don't know anyone in my life who fits this description. Stephen, her husband, even asks the police, is there any way they might have gotten the wrong Amy? But apparently, Dog Day God had even sent BASA Mafia pictures of Amy.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So there's no confusion. They have the right Amy. Which is why the FBI says to the Allwines, we think you should take these threats seriously. And they have to because they don't stop once the FBI gets involved. In July of 2016, five months before her death, Amy receives two anonymous emails, presumably from Dog Day God. They say, quote, Amy, I still blame you for my life falling apart.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Here is what is going to happen. I will come after everything else that you love. Here is how you can save your family. Commit suicide. So why not do it now and save them?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Das wäre so furchtbar, um diese E-Mail zu bekommen. Also macht Amy das Richtige. Sie teilt diese E-Mails mit der FBI, die beginnt, Befragte zu interviewen, insbesondere einige von Amy und Stevens Arbeitskollegen. Sie finden nichts. Hauptsächlich, weil das E-Mail von Dog Day God untraceable war.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Also sagen sie den Allwines, das Beste, was sie jetzt tun können, ist, ein Home Security System zu bekommen, ein paar Kameras zu installieren, eine Waffe zu kaufen. But Amy is living in absolute fear at this point. I mean, she's afraid to even be in her own home. She's worried someone is going to come in during the night and kill her. So now you can see why all of this is especially scary.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Okay. You have 10 seconds for this amazing, beautiful episode.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
When in November of 2016, Amy Allwine dies by suicide. Suicide? So naturally, her friends and family are furious with the FBI and local police. They're like, you were warned that she was going to be killed and you did nothing. She was just alone in her house.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Even though they claimed they had increased security patrols in the area to keep a closer eye on her, she still was killed and so to many, the hired hitman possibility makes a lot of sense. Not only did People report cars fleeing from the neighborhood that day.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
The mastermind of the Besa Mafia, the guy known as Jura, actually releases a video on the site after her death and says... Her being killed? Yeah, and he masks... No, not of her being killed. He masks his voice and his face and he says, hey, this website should be taken seriously because we are responsible for Amy's death. We took that hit out.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
But even if Besa Mafia carried out the hit, it still didn't answer the question of who ordered it. So far, many of the names the Allwines had given the police just didn't check out. Which is why they also haven't totally ruled out the possibility that maybe Stephen, the husband, was somehow involved. Especially because of how he acted the day his wife died.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Not only did he have that odd conversation with his son on the 911 call, where he laughed and they talked about remarry. Well, he also seemed a bit too calm when he came in for questioning. Plus, as police dig further into Amy's case over the following days, they find one really incriminating detail. Remember how Dog Day God had to pay for the hit using Bitcoin?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Well, in order to do that, the user had to send a 34-character wallet code to make that transaction. This is kind of something Garrett was talking about earlier. And that same exact wallet code was later found on Stephen's computer. Yeah, see...
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Ja, also es ist nicht, du kannst dich definitiv verstecken, besonders wenn niemand ever findet, dass du das Wallet besitzt, es gibt kein Name darauf, aber wenn jemand es macht, ist es over, sie können natürlich alles suchen, der Manns Computer, korrekt, also lernen sie all das und sie sind wie, okay, also der Mann, Stephen Allwine, war Dog Day Gott, also die Frage war an diesem Punkt, warum würde dieser Kirchenelder seine Frau tot wollen,
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Hier ist ein kleiner Detail über Stephen und Amy's Kirche. Nicht nur glaubten sie nicht an Divorz. Wenn ein Kirchenelter jemals Adulterien verurteilt wurde, würden sie gefragt werden, die Kirche zu verlassen. Er war auf seine Frau verletzt. Das war etwas, was für Stephen definitiv problematisch war, der die letzten zwei Jahre die Internet-Internet-Affäre ausgeführt hat.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
He was actually doing this on the site Ashley Madison, to be exact, which ironically he learned about while offering marriage counseling to one of the couples at his church. For anyone who doesn't know, Ashley Madison is a popular website that rose to fame in the mid-2000s that encourages extramarital affairs.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
No, so you can get on, create an account, and it's literally to cheat. Everyone on there is stepping out on their marriage.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Als ich nicht alt genug war, um zu wissen, was GoDaddy war, war ich so, das klingt wie ein Porn-Website. Nachher bin ich so, oh, es sind nur Domäne. Ja. Which is not good. This is not the website that you want to leak because it threatened millions of users. It ruined a lot of lives, a lot of marriages. So whether or not Stephen was involved in the leak, I actually have no idea.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
But it's very possible it scared him into making some pretty rash decisions. Because this just happened a year earlier. A bunch of people who were using this site get leaked and he's using this site.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Now, I'm not sure if Amy knew about the at least three different affairs that he was having. Okay. But I do know that Stephen realized there was no way to actually be with any of these new women if his church didn't allow him to get divorced. So maybe Stephen had to come up with a different plan. Maybe he needed to have his wife killed so he could go on and be a free man.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Which was when Stephen possibly took to the dark web and stumbled upon the Besa Mafia. Maybe he thought it was an easy way for him to walk away with his hands clean. So maybe he forked over the Bitcoin, around $12,000 to be exact, and then waited and waited and waited and talked to this website. But there's also the possibility that he was met with every single excuse.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
They would just keep making a new plan, a new plan. Stephen would send more money. Natürlich wissen wir, dass nichts daraus gekommen ist, weshalb es wahrscheinlich im Juli 2016 Dog Day God sich selbst e-mailte, erinnert er sich, und sagte ihnen, dass sie ihre ganze Familie töten würden, wenn sie sich nicht töten würde.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Aber als Amy direkt zur FBI ging mit diesen E-Mails, vielleicht bemerkte Stephen, dass sein Plan nicht so funktioniert, wie er es erwartet hatte. Und es sah aus, als ob die Basis der Mafia, dieser Website auf der Dark Web, die er bezahlt hatte, sie werden nie durchführen. Und Stephen war nicht falsch. Weißt du, warum?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
The entire website was a scam.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
This website on the dark web was a con to make money off of pathetically desperate people who were trying to get someone out of their lives for good.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Amy's death actually promoted this website because the website made a video in 2016 after she died saying, look.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
But they said, look, we took a hit out. Someone took a hit out on her and we did it. Look, she's dead. So it was all a marketing ploy. Why wouldn't they take the credit? It legitimized their fake business. Now, I guess it never occurred to Steven that $12,000 for a hit was suspiciously cheap. Like that does feel very cheap, but it was low enough for them to rope in the cash.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
And if they were paying with Bitcoin, there's no way he's ever going to see that money again. Yeah. Once Steven finally figured out that he'd been scammed, he was already so committed to the idea of having Amy killed, that he chose a new path. He's like, I'm just going to do it myself. But again, he actually used the dark web as a tool. So this is where I'm getting into what Steven actually did.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
This time, when he realizes, hey, this website is not going to kill my wife, he goes online and begins searching for drugs. And he found a site called Dream Market. And for one reason or another, he decided to purchase a large amount of scopolamine. That's the anti-nausea medicine that was found in her system. Welche in großen Dosen Menschen schmerzlos, sogar verabschiedet machen können.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Und erinnere dich, Amy hatte 20-mal die normale Anzahl in ihrem System, als der Verurteilte ihre Autopsie machte. Also am Nachmittag November 13, 2016, oder in den Tagen, die dazugehören, hat Steven Amy begonnen, diese große Dose in ihrem Essen oder Trinken zu verlieren, was war, weshalb Amy so krank war am Nachmittag. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Now, maybe others think that Amy had decided to protect her family from those mysterious threats after all.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
What? I'm so confused about what it is.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Right. Now, Stephen denies all of this. He insists, no, no, no, no, no, I didn't do this. It has to be whoever took the hit out on her. There was no way he would ever do anything to his wife and leave his son motherless. However, as we know, there was a lot of evidence to suggest this was another lie.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So there's a lot of things I find ironic in this case, but maybe one of the biggest things is that Stephen was an IT guy. He should have known how to cover his tracks, at least when it came to computers, right? And yet his computer was some of the best evidence against him. For example, Steven had a browser set up on his computer that could let him access the dark web as well as on his phone.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So he was definitely accessing it. Dog Day God first contacted the Basa Mafia on Valentine's Day. Shortly after sending that message, Steven's computer showed him googling how to use Bitcoin. I remember the first message was, how do I use Bitcoin? Am nächsten Tag suchte er Amy's Itinerary for her business trip to Moline, Illinois, and figuring out what drive she would take to get there.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Now remember, that message was this exact information. On March 6th, Stephen downloads a picture to the family's desktop. It's of Amy on their recent trip to Hawaii.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Das ist das Bild, das gesendet wurde.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Tage später gibt es ein E-Mail von der Basis der Mafia zu Dog Day God, der erklärt, wie man Bitcoin kaufen kann und dass er dann das Geld, das er verdient hat, zu seinem Banken informieren sollte, um seinen Weg zu bewegen. Jetzt, sofort danach, ruft Stephen die Cottage Grove Polizei an und sagt, er sei ein Verbrecher einer Verbrechung gewesen.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
It's nothing bad, right?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Also, obwohl die Polizei nicht genau die IP-Adresse von Dog Day God bemerken konnte, ist es Details nach Details wie dieses, das im Grunde genommen zeigt, dass das von Stephens Computer passiert ist.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So unless someone is repeatedly breaking into his home, accessing his computer and keeping up this charade for months leading up to Amy's death, it has to be him, which is why he's finally arrested and charged with second degree murder in January of 2017.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
However, once he got in front of a grand jury, those charges were escalated to first degree murder because everything is screaming premeditation, right? So there's an eight day trial and Steven is like, hey, I didn't do any of this. I mean, There were plenty of female friends in her life who had access to their home and computer. He's like, someone had to have been coming in and using my computer.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Something amazing, I guess.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
He also was like, the police did such a bad job. There was also this hit out for her. But as we know, Nach Jahren von diesem Show, ist die einfachste Erklärung oft die wahrscheinlichste. Nach dem Acht-Tage-Trial wurde der Gericht für sechs Stunden verurteilt, dass Stephen Allwine verurteilt war für Erst-Degreis-Mord.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Nach seinem Beurteilung, gab der Gericht Stephen ein Hörbuch, bevor er seine Beurteilung beendet, und sagte, du bist ein unglaublicher Schauspieler, ein Hypokrit und ein kalt kalkulierender Mörder. Dann wurde er verurteilt, um das Leben ohne die Möglichkeit des Paroles zu leben.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Now, as for the Besa Mafia and their scam website.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
The FBI has since traced the website to a location in Romania. And as of 2022, at least five members of the fraudulent organization have been arrested and are facing charges like murder, organized crime and money laundering. But the website and others like it are still operating in corners of the dark web today. And that is just the reality we live in.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
And that is the case of Amy Allwein.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Amy war nur eine gute Mutter. Weil sie nicht verheiratet werden konnten. Das ist so ironisch. Das ist so traurig. Es ist so ironisch für mich auch, dass du drei Verhältnisse hast, also du willst nicht mehr mit deiner Frau sein, weil du ein Mitglied dieser Kirche sein willst, richtig? Du willst ein Elterner dieser Kirche sein. Also ist deine Lösung, einen der wichtigsten Vorgaben zu töten?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
You know what I mean? Yeah. It's just like the reasoning for the murder is because you want to stay at church. That just like doesn't even.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
I will, I have to. So, you can find absolutely anything on the internet nowadays. From old video games, dating back to your childhood, to that obscure song you heard once and never thought you'd find again. Zu, natürlich, mehr gefährlichen Dingen wie Waffen, Drogen. Ehrlich gesagt, auf der Internetseite kannst du sogar Mörder für höher finden.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Yeah. All right, you guys. That was our episode for this week. We hope you have an amazing holiday and we will see you next time with another episode. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Du hörst einen Ono Media Podcast. Hey alle und willkommen zurück zu unserem Podcast. Das ist Mörder mit meinem Mann. Ich bin Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Aber das Wilde und Schreckliche an der Internetseite, besonders dank der Hilfe von unregulierten Währungen wie Bitcoin, ist, dass sie alle ziemlich anonym bleiben können. Nun, du weißt nie, wer diese Geräte anbietet. Es ist schwer zu finden, wer sie kauft. Und die meisten der Zeit haben die Leute keine Ahnung, dass sie der Ziel sind.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So if you piss off the wrong person, all it takes is a few clicks of the mouse and a quick Bitcoin transaction to land a bullseye on your back.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Du musst in einige Informationen investieren.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
I guess I just like, okay, this is very off topic and I'll say it really fast. I just don't even understand the concept of Bitcoin.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Cryptocurrency. Yeah, there's... It just doesn't even make sense to me.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
But I guess we do the same thing with money, kind of. We just print more money. Isn't that kind of what they're doing with Bitcoin? They just dig more Bitcoin?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
But it's just confusing because like...
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
We just created another currency.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
No, if you want to find out about cryptocurrency, go ahead and watch our Twitch live streams on Thursdays at 5.30 PT. Garrett will be talking all about that plus more.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Oh nein, ich habe es anders gesagt, als ich es normalerweise mache. Nun, Garrett und ich haben ein kleines Spezielles vorbereitet. Etwas für euch, für die Weihnachten. Also, hier gehen wir. Drei, zwei, eins. Was machst du?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So anyways, all that to say, you could possibly hire someone to kill someone in your life and then pay them Bitcoin and might not be able to track it. And that is seemingly what happened to the victim in today's case. 43-jährige Mutter Amy Allwine. Zumindest ist das, was alle am ersten Blick gedacht haben. Aber wir werden es natürlich machen. Das Jahr ist 2016.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Wir sind ungefähr 30 Minuten Fahrt nach Südwest Minneapolis, Minnesota. Es ist ein suburbanes Gebiet, das als Cottage Grove genannt wird. Das ist der südlichste Name für eine kleine Stadt. It's where 43-year-old Steven and Amy Allwine have called home for some time now. The couple actually married 20 years prior, back in 1996.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
They were college sweethearts who met and fell in love at a Christian university. And to most people, as life went on, they seemed to live a pretty typical middle American lifestyle. Quiet, content, happy. Stephen was a freelance IT expert. Amy owned her own dog training business. So there were always tons of furry friends in this couple's orbit.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Both were deeply involved in their local church, the United Church of God. So much so that Stephen actually became a church elder. Someone who gave sermons and offered guidance to other members of the congregation. Like counseling couples in their marriage in times of need. Also, die Allwines wurden als gute Leute gesehen.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Sie haben sogar ein kleines Mädchen adoptiert, damals 2006, das sie Joseph genannt haben, der jetzt im Jahr 2016 neun Jahre alt ist. Und Joseph war alles für ihre Mutter Amy. Diejenigen, die Amy kannten, sagten, dass sie sich wie ein Weihnachtstree auslöste, je nachdem, wann ihr Adoptionssohn Joseph erwähnt wurde. Sie würde zu den Enden der Erde für Josef und die Familie, die sie gebaut hatte.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Aber im November 2016, die Allwines fassten das absolut Undenkbare. November 13th, 2016. That morning, Stephen was working from home in his basement office, like he often did. Around noon, he went upstairs for his lunch break and he ate lunch with Joseph and Amy. But that's when Amy told Stephen that she wasn't feeling well.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So she was going to head upstairs to lay down, maybe just take a nap, rest for a bit. And Stephen said, okay, I will wrap up my work day so I can watch Joseph. Jetzt um 1 Uhr Uhr kommt Amy's Vater her, um ihnen ein Projekt zu helfen, das sie in ihrem Zuhause arbeiteten.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Aber um 2 Uhr Uhr sagt Amy zu ihrem Vater, hey, kannst du Joseph ein bisschen zu deinem Haus nehmen, damit Steven mich zum Arzt nehmen kann? Also sagt ihr Vater, natürlich. Und Amy sagt, wir sind da, um Joseph nicht später als 5.30 Uhr Uhr für den Abend zu holen. Now, when 5.30 rolls around, Stephen is the one who swings by Amy's dad's house. So he's alone to get their son Joseph.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
And when her dad is like, hey, how did the doctor go? Like, what did they say? Stephen is like, oh, Amy changed her mind about going and she just stayed in bed. So after a little bit longer conversation, Stephen and Joseph get back in the car and go home at around 6.50 p.m. And they go inside their house and when they get to the master bedroom to check on Amy, they find her on the floor.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
She's in a pool of her own blood and she has a gun beside her. She has been shot on the right side of her head. So, Stephen, the husband, calls 911 and he tells the dispatcher, hey, I'm pretty sure that my wife has died by suicide. Now, this call is pretty disturbing and also memorable to the operator for a few reasons.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
No, I just thought about doing that right before we pressed record.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
One, because Joseph is heard in the background asking his father why his mother would do that to herself.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So obviously we're not going to play it. But he's only nine years old. And then Joseph, the son, asks Stephen another odd question on the 911 call.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
I thought you were going to send them to do the Mean Girls dance for them.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Well, the other odd thing that you can hear in the back of the 911 call is Joseph asks his dad, Stephen, are you going to remarry? Now, kids say weird things.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Especially in moments of distress. But it's actually Stephen's reaction to the question that sticks with the operator. Like, as she's on the phone, she's like, what the... Because Steven, the dad, who is calling to report that his wife has died by suicide and him and his nine-year-old son just stumbled upon it, laughs at his nine-year-old son's question and just says, I don't know, buddy.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
What's your favorite Christmas song?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
So meanwhile, Sergeant Gwen Martin hears the dispatch call come over her radio. And when she hears the address and that a female has died by suicide, Sie hat dieses sinkende Gefühl in ihrem Stomach, weil sie diese Anzeige kennt. Sie weiß, wer dort lebt. In Wahrheit kennt Sergeant Gwen Amy ziemlich gut. Sie hat sie in einem 8-Weg-Kurs vorgesehen, der Zivilen über Anzeigen und Rechtsanwälte lehrt.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Das war ein Thema, in dem Amy sich interessiert hat. Also, Sergeant Martin hatte literally just seen the victim two weeks earlier. And to her, to Gwen, Amy seemed like someone who was planning for the future. She was definitely someone who would do anything for her kid. So, this Sergeant thought Amy showed zero signs of someone maybe battling with suicidal thoughts. Now, obviously, we never know.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
But she just was stunned, I think, as most of us would be. But she also knows in this line of work, you can never be certain what sort of demons someone deals with behind closed doors. So unfortunately, Sergeant Martin is also one of the first people to arrive at the crime scene. And some of what she sees that day kind of validates these thoughts of hers that I just don't think this is suicide.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Now, when she first sees Amy, she's lying face up on the floor and her pants are partially unzipped. Okay. And then she notices a smell. There is something cooking in the family's kitchen. Amy had a pumpkin roasting in the oven. Sergeant is like, who puts dinner in the oven? And then decides to go upstairs and die by suicide.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Es ist auch der Kopf, der alles beantworten muss. Ja, 100%. Sie investigieren.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Also, sobald Forensiken involviert werden, gibt es noch mehr, das nicht zu dieser Geschichte hinweist. The gun shot wound to Amy's head. It's on the right side. But the gun is resting on her left arm. There's also no blood spatter or gunpowder on her hands, which if Amy was the one to pull the trigger, she would have both.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
And then cops realize there's a few drops of blood in other parts of the primary bedroom, which makes them wonder. Did someone move her body here and clean up the actual crime scene? Now, sure enough, when they do a luminol test, they discover that the room had been recently cleaned, but was covered in blood stains and footprints.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Ones that led from the primary bedroom to the mudroom and bathroom on the main floor and then to Joseph's bedroom.
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Ja, es gibt etwas. Ich denke, es hat damit zu tun, dass, wenn der Gräufe最近 geschliffen ist, das Blut nicht in den Gräufe kommt. Aber was, wenn es auf Holz ist?
Murder With My Husband
248. The Dark Web Killer - The Murder of Amy Allwine
Weißt du, was ich meine? Ja, ich denke, wenn sie Luminol testen, kannst du Blut sehen, wie Spattern und wie Pools. Ja, auch wenn du es sauber gemacht hast.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Oh yeah, I mean, I think in just today's day and age.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Yeah, than trying to hide.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So meanwhile, investigators realize there's something inside Esmeraldas house that they now actually have investigated that might actually help them get to the bottom of her disappearance. And that is security cameras. Though once they pull the footage from the security cameras at Esmeraldas house, they find nothing.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
It's just Esmeralda wandering her house, going about her business, which is great for Luis. He's not pictured in the house at all before Esmeralda disappears out the front door alone on May 30th and doesn't come back. So the question now is, nothing happened to her at the house, Where did she go? And is Luis involved?
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So days pass as detectives dig deeper into Esmeraldas life, looking for any clue. And what they have put together is a brief timeline. So this is what they know so far. Esmeralda argued with Luis the afternoon of May 30th. She leaves her house that same night and doesn't come back home. She's never seen again on camera.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And then her family reports her missing the following day, the afternoon of May 31st. So without much to work off of this early in the investigation, police turned to a new pool of suspects. Pretty big one.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
esmerelda's social media following i mean when a celebrity is murdered it's not that weird to say did she have or he have any stalkers so they rolled out the boyfriend for sure no they're just trying to look at other angles yeah so when someone attracts that much attention online she has close to 300 000 followers you have to consider whether there was someone who had taken an interest in her
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
especially because she wrote one very obvious thing on her instagram profile and that was no dms she doesn't want to talk to people she makes this clear okay so they start to wonder Why? Like, why all of a sudden is she closing off her DMs? Was there someone in the past who had been harassing her?
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She was probably no stranger to people messaging her online and I doubt it was always kind or appropriate.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I'm trying to think because I worked social media from 2018. No, 2019. No, 2018 to 2020.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I'm trying to think if the requests thing for people with a high number of followers was a thing because I'm pretty sure it used to be that anyone could DM you.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
There was a lot. Now, if you have a certain number of followers, if you didn't know, your message actually goes into a request folder and then that person has to go separately check the request folder and scroll through and then accept a message. Some people don't even check their request folder. They don't even get eyes on your DM, if that makes sense.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I don't know if that was a thing at this point. And I mean, police are going through her comments on her photos and they were just random, you know, creepers commenting, you should marry me, we should go out sometime.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And it also wasn't just that she did have like some very... I don't want to say like risque, but I mean, there are people who would have considered her pictures risque. So that can draw a certain attention.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And then also, I mean, she post about her luxurious life. She posted that she had a $40,000 Rolex Rolex. This is like catnip to robbers. So they have to take that into consideration as well. Was someone keeping an eye on Esmeralda? Did they find out where she lived and then waited for her to leave?
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
As police dig into this very large suspect pool, Juan is doing his own due diligence trying to locate his sister. He and the family are posting flyers around town, spreading the word through Facebook, anything they can to find Esmeralda. A neighbor of Esmeraldas comes forward to say they actually noticed something odd around 2.30 a.m. on May 31st. And she didn't really realize it was that strange.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
The neighbor didn't until she got word that Esmeralda was missing. So, security footage caught Esmeralda lingering in the neighbor's driveway before approaching her neighbor's front door and knocking at 2.30 a.m. In this footage, Esmeralda is dressed in only lingerie and high heels and she's not walking very steady. She seems very confused. She's out of sorts.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And when the neighbor wakes up and notices Esmeralda on her front door, they tell her, hey, you have the wrong house. And Esmeralda quickly responds, oh, I do. Okay, thank you. And leaves the property. She doesn't put up a fight. She isn't combative. Just apologetic and moves on. And you have to think the neighbor...
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
ist wie wer diese Person ist, weißt du, aber das ist nicht der einzige Tipp, den die Polizei danach bekommt, da ist noch einer, einer, der anfängt, ihnen eine noch mehr konkrete Zeitlinie zu bieten, also Luiz nimmt Esmeraldas Fahrzeuge irgendwann am Morgen des 30. Mai, weil sie in einem Kampf sind und sie ist nicht normal. Okay, that's kind of weird. But this is Vegas.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So the people who worked at the dealership didn't kick her out. Honestly, they didn't even really find it that strange. This could be her work attire. They thought maybe she's a dancer on her way to work. But Esmeralda is there for another reason. She wants to get another key to her car since her boyfriend had took hers. The catch is, she's not alone at this BMW dealership. She's with another man.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
The gentleman in his 40s or 50s who seems to be walking with her, but he's not acting suspicious in any way. He looks more like a friend trying to help her out. So police sound the alarms on this. They have to figure out who this stranger is with Esmeralda basically the day she disappears. The family doesn't recognize him, so they start posting photos of him on the local news and they get a hit.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
The guy himself comes forward and says, I saw that you're looking for me. My name is Brent Smith. Now, Brent Smith lives very close to Esmeralda. He's actually another neighbor of hers. Okay. But he didn't know her before that day. That's like from what I can tell, is that he didn't know her very well.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Though he says plain and simple, Esmeralda approached me on the 30th and told me that her boyfriend took her keys and she needed a new set. She asked me if I could give her a ride to the dealership. And me, being a good neighbor, I said, sure.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Now, Brent would of course be considered a person of interest in all of this, except after that trip to the dealership, Esmeralda got dropped back off at home and she was seen on her interior surveillance cameras after that. This is before she leaves the house for good later that night.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Yeah, that's just like not really attainable.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Yes. This means Brent probably is the good neighbor he claims to be because he did drop her off.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And then hours after that drop off.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I don't know. I don't know. Is this normal in Vegas? Like, I just don't know.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
But he also, I mean, he's probably like, wait, you're telling me that I meet her for the first time. I take her and now she's like missing.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So as we know, she's going to leave the house and then hours after that drop off around 2.30 am, she's going to be seen at a different neighbor's door being told she's at the wrong house, but never actually go back to her own house, even though she's in her own neighborhood. Ja. Ja. The police are starting to hit dead ends. It is now July 18th. She went missing May 30th. It's now July 18th.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And another tip comes in and this one really hits the gas. So that day, an anonymous caller gets in touch with Las Vegas police to say they have a name of someone that they are certain is connected to Esmeralda Gonzalez's disappearance.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And the tipster says, actually it's two names. 45-year-old Christopher Prestapino and his roommate 39-year-old Cassandra Garrett.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Keep my name out of this.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So we have a 45-year-old Christopher and 39-year-old Cassandra, and they are roommates. So this tipster, this anonymous tipster, says that back in May, Christopher and Cassandra mentioned to them having killed a woman. What?
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Well, and the tipster tells police that after, according to these roommates, after they killed this woman, they took her out to the Nevada desert in a U-Haul and left her body out there.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Nun, wenn dieser Tipp genau ist, bedeutet es, dass Esmeraldas Fall kein Missbrauchsfall mehr ist.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Und weil der Tipp so spezifisch ist, wäre es schuldig, dass sie nicht in Christophers Hintergrund schauen würden. Ich meine, die beiden Namen, die ihnen gebracht wurden. Also machen sie das. Und sie finden, dass Christopher als Stagehand am Paris Hotel arbeitet, für einen ihrer Shows dort. Aber er hat auch einen kriminellen Hintergrund. He's been arrested before on charges related to drug use.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Though there's nothing violent on his record, so police have to take that into consideration as well.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
But here's the thing that really worries the police. Christopher Prestapino and Cassandra Garrett, their house is in... the same neighborhood as Esmeraldas. Actually just a few doors down. Now, remember where Esmeralda was last seen alive? In her neighborhood, on camera at 2.30 a.m., at a different neighbor's house, being confused where she was, looking very out of it.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And then they get a tip that two of her other neighbors are the ones who killed her, and that's where she was last seen, was her own neighborhood. I mean, this really lines up for police. This makes the most sense.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I think to police, it's like, how did she die in her own neighborhood, just like steps away from her house? This is really the only option, is that one of the other neighbors got her before she got to her actual house. So knowing that Esmeralda was last seen wandering around the neighborhood, Chris and Cassandra are climbing to the top of the suspect list quickly.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So investigators next move is to follow up on another little detail from that tipster. The fact that Chris rented a U-Haul to get rid of Esmeraldas body. So they start calling local U-Haul stores and sure enough. One of them finds that a rental was made to a Christopher Prestapino just days after Esmeralda went missing. And on that contract is Christopher's phone number, email, home address.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
He did not even try to use a fake name renting this U-Haul.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Just as the police are making some moves on this case, another anonymous tip comes in telling police, if you want to find out what happened to Esmeralda, you should speak to this woman named Trisha Ott. And police are like, oh my gosh, how many freaking tips can we get? We already have a really, really obvious one.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Okay, Leute, Erinnerung. Wir haben zwei andere Shows in Ono Media. Mein Solo-Show, Into the Dark. Unser True Crime News Show, Rising Crime. Es ist nur ein Sekund, seit ich darüber gesprochen habe. Und manchmal vergesse ich, dass nicht jeder weiß. Ja, also Rising Crime ist Current News. True Crime News.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
But it would be shoddy police work to not follow up every tip. So they track down Trisha, even though they feel like they're on the right path. And when they speak with her, they realize that this tipster actually was being helpful because she begins to connect the dots even more for police.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She tells the police that in early June, a week or so after Esmeralda went missing, her friend, Christopher Prestapino, called her in the middle of the night. He told her he needed her help moving something large and asked if she could come over to the house right away.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Trisha got out of bed, made the drive over, and when she got there, she found her friend Christopher blasting music and the TV so loud that she could barely speak to him. But also, Christopher was acting really paranoid. He was going on and on about a woman who had come over to his house and he had tied her up and maybe he accidentally killed her.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
This is not the second person he's opening his mouth to.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Es ist schrecklich. Es ist verrückt. Aber das ist nicht mal die Hälfte davon. Trisha sieht einige andere wirklich schäde Sachen, während sie da war, um ihren Freund, ich glaube, einen Körper zu bewegen. Für Anfänger, das U-Haul sitzt da in der Fahrt, nur wartet, bis es aufgelöst wird. Und mittlerweile, Cassandra, Christophers Freundin, is frantically cleaning out their garage.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And according to Trisha, she's high on drugs. And the most chilling detail is there is a giant handmade wooden box in the garage. From pictures, it looks a little bit bigger than like a chest freezer. And apparently that wooden box is what Chris needs help moving into the U-Haul, getting it in. He said that him and his roommate Cassandra had been trying for hours, but were unsuccessful.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So they called Trisha to see if the three of them could get it up. Now later, having heard the news about this missing Esmeralda, Trisha was pretty certain that it was her body inside the box that she had helped move that night. Now, I want to be clear, Trisha is being forthcoming with police, but they came to her off of an anonymous tip.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
The second you even had a thought that it might have been this missing woman who disappeared in that exact neighborhood and you might have helped move her body into a U-Haul, you should have contacted police. Yeah. So after this, police feel pretty certain that Christopher is their guy, so they subpoena his phone records next. And they find something else that sort of confirms Trish's story.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Twice a week and then into the dark is basically murder with my husband minus the husband once a week. So yeah, go check them out if you need more content to binge. That being said, let's get into our case sources for today's episode.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So needless to say, they are just gluing everything together. They're just getting some back end behind their evidence. So Christopher spent a lot of time at Home Depot. There's a specific Home Depot by his house after her disappearance. So they reach out to that store where his phone was constantly pinging. They ask for security footage. And sure enough,
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Christopher Prestapino takes multiple trips in and out of Home Depot, buying all of the supplies that someone would need to build a wooden box. Just like the one Tricia described. Wood, cement mix, lime, drills, mixing paddles. And then on June 8th, Christopher's phone records placed him somewhere else that's kind of suspicious.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
That day he spent multiple hours out in the middle of the Nevada desert. So police assume Christopher must have found a way to get that box inside the U-Haul and he was out there dumping it that day. So now, investigators are getting closer to finding out what happened to Esmeralda.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
The issue is, they only have Christopher's cell coordinates to work off of and the Nevada desert is a pretty big place. So while they do multiple searches of the area, spanning hundreds and hundreds of miles of desert, they don't find anything.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And that's when they realized as badly as they wanted to find Esmeralda before arresting Christopher, they were going to need to go directly to Christopher to find Esmeralda. So it's September by this point and police decide that they're going to actually start with finding Cassandra, the roommate, first. Only they quickly realized she's not even in Vegas anymore.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She actually ran off to Wisconsin to her boyfriend's house. So police hop on a plane and knock on her boyfriend's door. And Cassandra is pretty good at playing dumb. She says she knows nothing about a U-Haul or a missing girl, even though Trisha... said she was there cleaning out the garage. In fact, she's really combative, which of course is not helpful.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
But for now, it's not enough to arrest her. So they move to the next phase. They need to get a warrant for Christopher's house back in Vegas. So on September 20th, they knock on his door. And as much as I hate to say it, Sie finden nichts. Sie finden keine Beweise darauf, dass Esmeralda jemals in seinem Haus war, auch wenn sie dort getötet wurde.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Our sources for this episode are oxygen.com, news3lv.com, 8newsnow.com, halfpricelawyers.com, people.com, wpde.com, reviewjournal.com, lawandcrime.com, sinsandsurvivors.com and ktnv.com. So I think it's safe to say that for most of us listening to this, social media feels unavoidable these days. I'm always shocked when someone tells me they've managed to stay off social media because I think
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Und Christopher sagt über und über, dass er keine Ahnung hat, wer Esmeralda ist. Er hat sie noch nie gesehen. Also sind die Polizei frustriert. Sie fühlen sich, als hätten sie eine Menge circumstantielles Beweis und viele Tipps gegen diese Leute, aber einfach nichts, um es zu beweisen.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So this is when they realized that Christopher and Cassandra might actually just be roommates because Christopher has a girlfriend named Lisa Mort. who is in prison at this time. She's at a nearby detention center on some unrelated charges. I'm not sure what. But police had heard that she and Chris spoke over the phone regularly.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So they actually wondered if maybe they could cut a deal with Lisa to kind of get more information and maybe even to testify against her boyfriend Christopher. But when they questioned Lisa, she's also saying she knows nothing about the crime. It's just dead end after dead end. But police feel like they're so close. So they throw one final hell Mary.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
In October, they connect with Cassandra, the roommate, again. They say to her, look, we're just willing to make a deal with you at this point. We're hot on your trail. We're inches away from making an arrest. But if you cooperate with us and you lead us to Esmeraldas body, we will fly you back to Vegas, let you get all of your affairs in order before we arrest you.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Das ist nicht ein konventionelles Verhältnis, aber es scheint, als wäre die Schuld zu viel für Cassandra, weil sie sagt, okay, lass uns das machen. Ich mache es. Am 8. Oktober fliegt Cassandra von Wisconsin nach Nevada. Und am selben Tag kommt sie in den Auto mit Detektiven, sie fährt sie in den Desert. But for hours, it seems like Cassandra's just leading them on.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She keeps saying she doesn't remember exactly where it was. Nothing was looking familiar. Until they come to one particular rock formation and she says, oh, this is it. So that's when a detective gets out of the car, climbs up to an embankment, looks down and sees a giant homemade wooden box lying there in the Vegas sand.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So police actually have to call in for a crane to come and lift this structure out of the desert. And when they get it back to the lab, they have to call for firefighters to drill into it to see if the remains are inside. Sure enough, they find a body. But the level of decomposition is so bad that they can't even perform an autopsy.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Es ist klar für die Bewerber, dass Foulplay mit diesem Körper involviert war, weil die Wachstumshände immer noch mit Schrauben verbunden sind. Das Einzige, was noch zu tun ist, ist zu bestätigen, dass dies in Wahrheit Esmeralda ist, was nicht lange dauert, weil das Rolex-Haus, das sie auf Instagram bezeichnet hat, ist in der Box mit ihr.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Und once her brother Juan locates the receipt, they are able to match the serial numbers, confirming this is definitely the Rolex that belongs to Esmeralda. And if that wasn't enough confirmation, the coroner's office also used some of the bone fragments to test the DNA. And when compared to Esmeraldas parents, it's a match.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
After more than five months, the mystery of Esmeraldas disappearance has been solved. There were a few questions that remained. Was Christopher a follower of Esmeraldas and did he kidnap her? Did they know each other? What happened the night she went missing? What led to her death and how did she die? No way he left. So he did exactly that.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Als die Polizei ihn gefunden hat, haben sie gelernt, dass er nach Belize gegangen ist. Wow. Das bedeutet, dass die Polizei einen anderen Weg finden muss, um ihn jetzt in die Handzüge zu bringen. Sie fangen also an, seinen Telefon anzunehmen und beginnen, seine Gespräche zu hören. Nach ein paar Tagen, als sie Esmeraldas Körper gefunden haben, werden sie glücklich. Am 11.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Oktober bekommt Christopher einen Anruf von Lisa, seiner Freundin im Gefängnis. Sie sagt, sie wird bald rauskommen und Christopher versagt, dass er zurückkommen muss, um sie zu holen. Also fliegt er nach Vegas am folgenden Tag, am 12. Oktober. Und weil die Polizei das Telefonanruf gehört hat, wissen sie das. Und sobald er landet, bekommt er eine Willkommenspartei.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Like how? It just doesn't even feel possible. And the way I see it, Instagram and TikTok are ways to stay updated with people in our lives. For others, it's a way to make new friends and connect with people that have similar interests. And sometimes it's just a way to not feel alone in this world.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Ein Hälfte der Polizisten warten da, um ihn zu verabschieden. By the way, Lisa Mort doesn't even make her way out of prison that day. She doesn't actually get out. She's arrested again on the day she's supposed to be released for being an accessory after the fact. About a week later, on October 20th, Cassandra Garrett also gets a knock on the door and a set of silver handcuffs.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And now with all of the offenders in custody, police finally learn what happened to Esmeralda in the final hours of her life.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So it's no secret that Esmeralda was likely off her medication and struggling. And it was no secret that she was wandering around the neighborhood asking for help from strangers. But apparently one of those strangers was a friend of Christopher and Cassandra's. And he found Esmeralda on the street that night, likely in the early hours after she rang the other neighbor's doorbell.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So after 2.30 a.m. So they invite her into the house. They're all partying. And I think at some point shortly after the friend who had like gone outside and invited her in left. But then Christopher, this is all according to them, got Esmeralda high on methamphetamines. This, of course, only worsened her current mental state. And when she started behaving strangely, it scared Christopher.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
He grabbed some rope and tied her to a bedpost. According to him, Esmeralda got more erratic. She began screaming and thrashing. But Christopher and Cassandra said they were afraid to let her go at that point, thinking that she might call the police and turn them in. Eventually, as Mirelda starts calming down, they go to untie her. She starts fighting back.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She attacks Christopher, punching him in the face. Christopher retaliates by trying to strangle her, ties her back up, throws some blankets over her, and then he goes downstairs, comes back up with a syringe filled with pool cleaner.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
He injects it into her and then he and Cassandra go downstairs. They come back up to check on her later and they find her dead. Christopher panics, devises his complicated plan to get rid of the body, which as we know doesn't work. Oh, that's not much at all. Oh. Christopher, on the other hand, thought he could fight the charges, at least at first.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Early on, he entered a plea of not guilty, later changed his mind to plead guilty via an Alford plea. We've talked about this before. It basically says you're maintaining your innocence while pleading guilty. So as a result, Christopher was sentenced to 10 to 25 years for second degree murder and 5 to 15 years for kidnapping. His sentences will run concurrently.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
But the thing with social media is, you sometimes never know who is looking at your profile, who is waiting for your updates, looking to connect with you through a screen. Especially when you're someone with a big following. Which is why, when an influencer goes missing these days, the police often turn to social media to see what was happening in their DMs.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
It is kind of interesting because it appears that although a stranger, Christopher wasn't one of Esmeraldas online followers after all. Esmeralda just happened to find herself in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people in her own neighborhood.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Which ultimately goes to show that while the internet may seem like a scary place at times, sometimes it really is no match for what's lurking out in the real world. And that is the case of Esmeralda Gonzalez.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Nothing. He had been trying to protect her.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I think they thought she was gonna turn them in for having methamphetamines and they would get drug charges.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
The syringe? It's just weird.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I guess they were high on drugs.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Alright you guys, that is our case for this week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
But today's case is a reminder that while social media and the people we encounter on it can certainly be unpredictable, the real threat doesn't happen online. It happens in the real world. So for today's case, we are turning back the clock to 2019 and we are heading to Las Vegas to meet 24-year-old Esmeralda Gonzalez. Now, unlike a lot of people living in Vegas, Esmeralda is not a transplant.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She's actually spent most of her life there. She and her two brothers grew up in the historic neighborhood of West Las Vegas. Maybe not a place you'd venture to if you were looking for casinos, nightclubs. But for Esmeralda and her family, this was home. Her family was from Michoacan, Mexico and came to the States in the 90s looking for opportunities.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I looked it up and that's how you say it, I'm pretty sure. Michoacan. That's how it's said. But if I did say it wrong, don't blame me, blame the internet. So, born on May 26th, 1995.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
I'm here after you. Esmeralda.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Okay, I'm pretty sure I have really great news. What? We have new Strangie Dangie merch available right now.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Yeah, I definitely feel like Influencing was known, well known in 2019, but not maybe as common as like everyone trying to be an Influencer type thing.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So she's born in Mexico and then her and her family come to the States in the 90s. So Esmeralda really couldn't have been older than five when the family found the small community in Vegas and decided to go there and call it their own.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So while the Gonzaleses strongly believed in working hard and keeping their heads down to achieve the American dream, Esmeralda wasn't exactly the kind of girl who was keen on living a quiet, modest life in the shadows. She had big plans for her future and she knew with the perfect cocktail of brains and beauty that the right doors would open for her in time and what she wanted.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So as Esmeralda got older, she began participating in beauty pageants while also staying after school for the chess club. And while Esmeralda was the only female in the chess club, that sort of spoke to the kind of person she was. She wasn't someone who was easily intimidated or willing to back down. After graduating from high school, Esmeralda knew she wanted to stay local.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Her family meant the world to her and she never wanted to venture far. So she chose to attend the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. And there she began studying for her bachelor's degree in communications. But even during her college years, Esmeralda kept her eye on the prize.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She became a member of UNLV's chapter of the National Society for Leadership and Success and actually had plans to go on to law school after she finished her undergrad degree. Esmerelda, wie viele Mädchen ihr Alter, hatte auch Träume, eine Mutter zu werden, einen Tag zu starten, ihre eigene Familie zu starten, die sie stolz sein könnte, so wie das Leben, das ihre Eltern für sie gebaut haben.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Aber für den Zeitraum, war Esmerelda glücklich, nur eine Tochter zu sein, zu ihrer miniaturen Pudel, die sie Bonita genannt hat. Jetzt, besonders, weil sie nicht in einer Brüche war, um sich zu befinden, ziemlich das Gegenteil, tatsächlich. In 2018 begann Esmeraldas Instagram zu wachsen.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
They're not gonna believe you if you say every time.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Ihr Follower begannen zu wachsen und du musst dir vorstellen, dass das ähnlich war wie damals, als wir durch die Schule gingen. Und es war wirklich das Zeitpunkt, als Influencing wirklich bekannt wurde. Es war so, wow, es gibt Leute, die Geld auf Instagram machen, mit vielen Followern, wie Instagram-famösisch.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
And so she was getting to enjoy plenty of perks that came along with being this influencer. So if you think about it, Esmeralda was already in the perfect place to grow a following. She had a backdrop of one of the craziest cities in the world. And she was candid about sharing her nights out and the outfits and accessories she sported while doing it.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Safe to say, Esmeralda was a little ahead of the game. So by 2018, she had close to 300,000 followers in 2018. Wow, that's a lot. Yes, and her profile included credits like BA in Communications, Entrepreneur, Real Estate Investor, Social Scientist, and Foreign Model. I think back then, Instagram Bios were a little bit more about like a LinkedIn profile instead of like an Instagram Bio, you know?
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Oh, it's my favorite merch, hands down.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Yeah, it's my favorite one we've ever done.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So, Esmeralda was definitely doing well for herself as an influencer, because it seems this helped her bring in quite a bit of cash in 2018. Suddenly, she was sporting designer shoes, bags, she had a $40,000 Rolex, and when she turned 23 that year, she was even able to purchase her first house on her own at 23. Now meanwhile, Esmeraldas Love Life also seemed to be blossoming.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She had been seeing her boyfriend, Luis Merlo, for some time now. Though the two hadn't taken the steps to move in together yet. For now, Esmeralda was still enjoying her independence and soaking up any chance she could spend time with her family. Including the day of her 24th birthday, that's May 26th, 2019.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Foxy fit, oversized. Cute, freaking sweatshirt.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Nicht viel wusste Esmeraldas Familie, dass sich alles für sie verändern wird und nicht für das Bessere. Am Nachmittag des 31. Mai, das ist nach ihrem Geburtstag, eine Woche nach ihrem Geburtstag, ging Esmeraldas Bruder Juan von seiner Wohnung, um sich auf sie zu kümmern.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Er hat nicht von seiner Schwester gehört für den letzten Tag oder so, was nicht normal war, und er hat also angefangen, sich überrascht. So he gets to his sister's house, goes up to her front door, knocks and no one answers. But even more alarming, he realizes that his sister's front door is unlocked. So Juan is able to let himself inside, which is completely unlike Esmeralda.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She's usually very responsible, would never leave her front door unlocked, especially because she was someone who lived alone and also liked her privacy. Now Juan starts calling her name around the house. At first he thinks she couldn't have gone far because when he pulled in, he noticed her car was still in her driveway.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Plus, her purse and wallet are inside the house, but he can't find her phone. And there's one thing about the house that really seems to scare Juan the second he goes inside. Okay. Okay. Was es in der Vergangenheit war und was es sich jetzt an Juan sieht, ist, dass Esmeralda noch einen anderen Mental-Hilfe-Episode gehabt hätte.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Das war etwas, mit dem sie schon lange auf und auf gezwungen war, laut Juan.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Esmeralda hatte in der Vergangenheit mit Schizophrenie und Bipolarschmerzen behandelt. Ich weiß nicht, wie lange sie diese Krankheiten kämpfte, aber ich weiß, dass sie für beide Medikamente versprochen wurde. Und sie haben ihr wirklich geholfen, laut Juan. But just a week ago at her birthday party, Esmeralda had actually confided in her brother Juan that she had been struggling again.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
She wasn't sure if her medications were working anymore. Maybe she just needed to get her dosage changed. So when he didn't hear from her and then he goes to her house, sees her car, sees her stuff, no phone and sees the state the house is in, he's worried. Er ist sofort überrascht, weshalb er sogar da ist.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Also er denkt tatsächlich, Esmeralda könnte in Vegas irgendwo in einem unheiligen Mindeststand sein. Er weiß, ohne ihre Medikamente hat Esmeralda einen schwierigen Zeitraum, mit ihrer Wahrnehmung der Realität zu kämpfen, die, wie wir wissen, für jeden Menschen gefährlich sein kann. But before he lets the panic set in, Juan decides to get in touch with Esmeraldas newish boyfriend Luis.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
See if maybe they're just together somewhere. Only this conversation leaves Juan even more unsettled. Because Luis says to him that the last time he saw Esmeralda was actually yesterday, so the day before. And things didn't go well between the two of them, so they weren't necessarily talking. He noticed that Esmeralda wasn't acting right.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Whether or not he knew about her mental health history, I'm not sure. But he said he could tell something was definitely off with her. And then Luis admits he took Esmeraldas cell phone and her car keys trying to help keep her safe because she just wasn't in a very good frame of mind.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Strangydangy wurde höchst, höchst requested. Wahrscheinlich, glaube ich, unsere höchst requested Merch Option. Also, ja, wenn du es wolltest und du es nicht bekommst, geh es jetzt. Du hast 10, 15, 20 Sekunden für uns.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Now, knowing that Esmeralda isn't with her boyfriend either and doesn't have these personal items, Juan gets the police involved.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Yeah, like really following these steps, trying to figure out and... Er erzählt den Polizisten das letzte Mal, als er Esmeralda gesehen hat, und dann auch die Geschichte, die er von Luis, ihrem Freund, bekommen hat. Er sagt, das ist, was ihr Freund mir gesagt hat.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Und für einen Polizisten, der einen Fall untersucht, sind die ersten Leute, die man in einer Situation wie dieser betrachten wird, sind die, die nahe an der Missing Person sind. Besonders, weil sie, wenn sie entscheiden, in Luis' Vergangenheit zu schauen, sofort, sie sind einfach sofort auf der Wand, oder wie, lass uns ihn einfach holen. They find he's not exactly squeaky clean.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
Just a couple weeks before, police had been called to Esmeraldas house over a domestic violence incident involving Luis. And I don't know the details of what happened that night, but I know this is obviously going to be an immediate red flag for detectives. A couple weeks before... They get called for domestic violence and now she's missing.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
So they call Luis to try and get him to come down for questioning or at the very least to hand over Esmeraldas cell phone and keys so they can dig further into her call and text history and maybe even get into her car. But Luis doesn't do himself any favors at this point. He's not very cooperative.
Murder With My Husband
265. The Missing Instagram Model - Esmeralda Gonzalez
He actually gives the evidence to his attorney to hand over to the police, which I'm not necessarily saying is a bad idea. But to the police, it seems a little shady.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
An welchem Punkt bist du so furchtbar, dass du anfängst, Dinge zu tun, die ausländisch sind? Weißt du, was ich meine?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Also in den Monaten, die nach ihrer Verbrechung folgten, hat Mike angefangen, darüber nachzudenken, wie er Susan töten würde, bevor sie ihn verheiratet hätte.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Nachdem er wahrscheinlich schon Menschen in Kampf getötet hat, hat Mike vielleicht nicht gebrochen, in aktive Gewalt zu verurteilen. But he knew that if Susan turned up dead, police are obviously going to look at him first. They're in the middle of a divorce. She made more money than him. So he had to be smart about this in his head, okay?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
For a while he seemed to have considered making it look like an accident. He invited Susan repeatedly to the beach where she could easily fall off a cliff. But Susan always declined his invitations. So Mike needed a different plan. And here's where the story takes an absolutely crazy turn, okay? For the past few years...
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Mike had been working for a chain of adult novelty stores called Fantasy Adult Video. He was the maintenance supervisor and part of his job was to hire and fire custodial staff. Now, how insane is it that at this particular moment, when Mike is looking for a way to murder his wife, Wow, wow.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So Mike's like, oh my gosh, I've been trying to figure out how to kill my wife and then this just falls in my lap. He must have been blown away. It probably seemed like divine intervention. Even more so after he hired the guy and found out more details. Okay, so the man who applied for this custodial job, his name was Ed Haffey.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He had done 10 years for hiring a hitman to torture and murder his ex-girlfriend. He also had previous convictions for robbery and assault. Sie sind beide.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Sie haben beide andere Leute für ihre Probleme verurteilt. Also mit all diesem gemeinsamen Grund, hat es nicht lange gedauert, Mike zu öffnen und zu teilen, was ihm auf dem Kopf war. Okay, das sind zwei Leute, deren Negativität, Schmerz, Enttäuschung sich einfach von sich aus auf den Punkt geführt haben, dass sie öffentlich diskutieren können, dass sie Menschen mördern wollten.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He told Ed his wife was planning to screw him over in a divorce and he was going to be the victim and he wasn't about to let that happen. So he said, hey Ed, obviously I'm going to be the first suspect, but I'll pay you $50,000 to murder Susan.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Okay, Dexter. Yep. He said half up front, half upon completion. And of course, he'd been down this road before and he might have wondered where Mike was going to get the money. Well, as it turns out, the job of Pornshop Maintenance Supervisor Mm. Mm.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
basically hid away the rest okay as a result mike now had a pretty big nut set aside okay he had a little egg with lots of green in it enough to give ed the upfront money okay twenty five thousand dollars and the back end he said i have another 25 if he completed the job ed agrees just like that mike's plan was finally in motion with the porn shop custodial worker and the porn shop maintenance man
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So on September 6th, 2006, Mike führte Ed zu seinem ehemaligen Zuhause, dem Zuhause, wo Susan jetzt alleine lebte, im südwesten Portland. Er legte Ed in das Haus, mit dem Alarmcode für seinen und Susans Geburtstag. Das tut weh, Mann. Dann versuchte er, den Alarm zu überwachen, um Ed, während das Sicherheitssystem noch gearmt war, in die Unterkunft zu gehen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Okay, also hat er eine Note für Susan in der Müllraum gelegt und ist weg. Er ging auf die Beach, hat einen schönen kleinen Motelraum am Wasser. Obviously setting up an alibi. And there he waited for the hired hitman to call him and tell him it was done. Meanwhile, Susan was hard at work at Providence Medical Center. She had a busy day in the ER. After a nine-hour shift, she headed home.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Ich verstehe einfach nicht. Ich weiß. Wie verwirrend und nur beträgen es muss fühlen. Oh. Wenn du lernst, dass jemand, den du liebst, dich töten wollte.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So she walks into the house and heard the telltale beep letting her know the security system was armed. Okay. So she turns off the alarm and then she finds Mike's note. This wasn't the first time they had communicated that day. Mike had also called her earlier to say he was going to go to the beach.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So she was a little puzzled, but not surprised when she read this note he left in the house saying, Sue haven't been sleeping, had to get away, went to the beach, just losing it, don't know what to do, love me. Now, with a pang of sympathy for her ex, Susan set the note aside and went to the bedroom to change. On her way down the hallway, she notices something odd, okay?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She's walking to her bedroom and she notices the bedroom was dark. This is weird because Susan always opened the curtains in the morning to let in the light. She's like, did I just forget this morning? So shrugging off the air, she continued down the hallway and into the bedroom. As soon as she walks in, a man steps out from behind the door. It's Ed, of course, but Susan doesn't know that.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
All she knew was that a strange, scraggly-looking man wearing yellow rubber gloves and holding a claw hammer was standing in her bedroom. She reacted on impulse, blurting out, Who are you? What are you doing here? What do you want? The man doesn't respond. Instead, he swung the hammer at her. At her head. Hitting her on the side of the head. In the temple. Susan, who was now age 51, fought back.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She started wrestling with the man, who she assumed was a burglar. She shoved him against the wall, trying to get the hammer away from him. All the while, Susan kept expecting this man to be like, where's the jewelry? Give me the code to your safe. But he doesn't say anything at all. In fact, he doesn't speak. So, as they struggled, Susan began to feel... Is this man a burglar?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Like, I'm fighting with this man. And she's having this out-of-body thought loop of like, what does he want?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
What was he here for? No, she's fighting for her life.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Eventually, she managed to use her weight to pin him against the wall, okay? And at that point, the man said the only words he uttered during this entire attempt to kill Susan.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Er schaut ihr in die Augen und sagt, du bist stark.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Ich denke, das ist schrecklich. Du versuchst mich zu töten und du bist nur überrascht über meine Kraft.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Sie konnte sagen, dass er von ihrer Resistenz überrascht war, aber er war auch aufgeregt. Das ist schrecklich. Susan's Stomach schlug, als sie bemerkte, dass der Mann wahrscheinlich da war, um sie zu töten. Und die Gedanken kamen zu ihrer Meinung. Du wirst mich nicht in meinem eigenen Haus töten.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So suddenly, all of this anger that she had been tamping down throughout her marriage, all this patience and waiting for her husband to change, came roaring up to serve her in this moment when she needed it the most. Oh mein Gott. Sie töten ihn? Well, finally, he releases his grip on the hammer. Susan lets go of his neck and grabs the hammer. And she remembered something her father used to say.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
That's a different division than me. I'm gonna bang on Ohio, but I don't know. Could be Minnesota. Those are normally the top two. You know what? If you're like, I don't even know what she's talking about, go Google it and watch.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Susan's dad was a carpenter. In the days before home alarm systems, he told her... that if anyone broke into their home she could defend herself with a hammer and in the event that she was unfortunately a force to do so she should use the claw end of a hammer because that would work the best to defend yourself so susan flips the hammer and starts hitting ed with it with the claw end
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
And her dad was right. It was a highly effective weapon. Unfortunately, however, after a few strikes, I mean, she's nervous. This is scary. The hammer slips from Susan's hand. And instead of picking it up and continuing, she decides, I'm going to escape. She turns and runs, screaming for her neighbors, hoping to get their house to call 911.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Now, Ed, who has been hit with the hammer, is right behind her. Obviously, he's going to go to prison for attempted murder if she gets away.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Okay. Okay. She could see the phone in her home, only a few feet away from her. She said, there's no way I can reach it. Hearing footsteps behind her on the hardwood floor, Susan looked back and saw her attacker standing over her. He still had those rubber gloves on and he had retrieved the hammer and was holding it in his hand.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
And as he raised the hammer to deliver the final blow, Susan feels a surge of rage and adrenaline. Again, she's like, he's not gonna kill me.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Du hast mich gerade für so viele Schritte gedrängt. Sie hat sich für seine Beine gedrängt, die sich über ihr stehen, okay? Sie hat seine Beine gedrängt und sie hat seine Beine aus dem Unterhalb von ihm. Er fällt auf den Boden. Sie kämpfen, beide versuchen, den Hammer zu bekommen. Susan schreit, bis sie schmerzhaft war, aber niemand kam.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So in the middle of the struggle, she decides to start biting her attacker. Okay. Thinking that if he killed her, at least her teeth marks and saliva would identify him. So she bit Ed several times as hard as she could in the arm, the thighs, even like that area. That's really going to hurt a guy to bite. She starts biting everywhere she can. He still bites. Sie lassen diesen Hammer nicht gehen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Sie kämpfen ihn über. Am Ende, als Susan mit dem Gedanken kam, dass sie wahrscheinlich nie mehr diesen Hammer zurückbekommen würde, hatte sie eine andere Idee. Sie sagte, vielleicht kann ich einfach dieses Waffen werden. Okay, also mit einem letzten Sturz von Kraft. Susan schafft es, Ed auf seinen Stomach zu bringen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Sie steigt auf ihn, packt seine Arme um seinen Nacken, wieder in einem Schockhalter.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
this worked for her last time so ed began thrashing for his life susan managed to hold on and as she's choking him from behind she says tell me who you are and i will call you an ambulance but her attacker never responded after a few minutes he slumped down motionless susan staggers to her feet she grabs the hammer ran with all her remaining strength through her neighbor's house
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
14 Minuten sind passiert, seit dieser Angriff begonnen hat. Das ist ein sehr langer Versuch. Und irgendwie hat diese 51-jährige Frau überlebt. Ein Mann, ein erwachsener Mann mit einem Hammer, der versucht hat, sie zu töten. Sie wartete mit ihrem Nachbarn auf seinem Torch, als die Polizei und die Paramedik kamen. Die Adrenalin, die sie als Geschenk nennt, war natürlich immer noch in ihren Beinen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Also war sie hoch alert, trotz ihrer Entzündung, als ein Polizist von ihrem Haus kam. She asked the officer if the man who had attacked her was dead. And the officer said, yes. Susan took this in. Suddenly, she was flooded with emotion, not relief, like you might expect. Susan was struck with grief, okay? She didn't wake up that day planning to kill someone.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Du sagst das jedes Mal. Nein, nein, nein. Aber es ist, aber es ist so, dass du es jedes Mal sagst. Es ist, es ist. Es ist, weil wir es immer noch ändern müssen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Even though she was fighting with her life, she has this immediate thought that this guy probably had a family. Throughout her life and work, Susan had come to believe that everyone has somebody in the world who loves them. She was sure this man was no different. Someone out there would be mourning for him soon. Still, she had no idea who he was, what he wanted.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
But she had a pretty good idea who'd sent him. So at this point, as she's away from the attack, she's like, this man was in my house and my security system was armed. There's only one person who can unarm the system and then rearm it to get this man in her home. Someone she loved, by the way. So Mike had been on...
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
vacation whatever you want to call it well basically edge for hours waiting to hear from ed how the kill had gone so still at the motel by the beach he eventually turned on the tv and he saw something that must have probably come to a shock that's so sick do you imagine like i'm so glad he didn't get caught His house was on the news, okay?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Ja, andere Art von Sweaters. Wir haben einige Crewneck-Sweater, die mit Ghost-Embroiderung, MWMH-Embroiderung. Definitiv ein anderer Art von Look für unsere Merch. Just another merch drop, something fun, something different. If you want to check it out, go ahead. Links everywhere.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Mike still called it his house, even though he didn't live there anymore.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
It was clear something had happened, but the reporters weren't giving out enough details. So he's like, is the house there because she was found dead? Like, what happened? Mike couldn't exactly tell if Ed had accomplished his mission or not. So he called Providence, the hospital where Susan worked, and asked the staff, hey, is my wife Susan there? They're like, we don't know.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
The truth was, Susan was there as a patient in the same emergency room where she worked. But fearing that Mike might come for her again, as she was taken to the hospital, had told everyone, Don't tell anyone I'm here. Don't tell anyone I'm here. So Mike, of course, still has no idea what is happening. So he tries calling Susan's friends and eventually he gets a hold of a woman named Helen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Helen had known Susan for many years and she harbored serious concerns about Mike. So much so that when Mike had tried to take Susan to the beach, Helen was actually the one who had warned her that she shouldn't be alone with him because they're separated and you don't know his intentions.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Now, getting this call from Mike at almost 2 in the morning, Helen felt the hair on the back of her neck stand up. She listened warily as Mike babbled, sounding almost manic. He told her over and over, I was at the beach, I've been at the beach, I was in a motel at the beach and I saw the house on the news, I can't reach Susan, do you know what's going on?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Helen sagte Mike, dass sie nicht wusste, was los war, und sie hängte sich auf. Aber von dem Moment an war sie überzeugt. Mike wusste, was passiert war. Das ist seltsam. Wenn du auf der Straße bist, warum nicht einfach nach Hause fahren und sehen, was los ist. Also am nächsten Tag hat Helen Susan mitgebracht, zurück zu ihrem Haus. Sie ist aus dem Krankenhaus.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Es war noch ein Krimi-Szenario, aber die Polizei hat sie eingelassen, ein paar Dinge zu holen. Und während sie da waren, haben die Freunde etwas aus dem Ort bemerkt. Etwas, was Susan nicht bemerkt hat, als sie von der Arbeit nach Hause kam. Mike's Sports Memorabilia Collection was boxed up by the door.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Apparently, the hitman was supposed to take it and then give it to Mike, thereby making it look like a burglary. Gone wrong. So he was just like, oh, I'll just find a way to steal my memorabilia and then also make this look like a burglary while he's killing my wife.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Helen then spotted a backpack that seemed out of place, and Susan confirms it's not hers. So police officers opened it up. Inside the backpack, they found a day planner that belonged to Ed. So this is how they figure out who the now dead hitman is, okay? He had left his backpack. Obviously, he was supposed to take it when he left, but he never left.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So they find his backpack, and on September 4th, two days before the attack, the hitman's Okay, so they open this up and they're like, so this hitman was supposed to call Mike two days before he happened to be in Mike's wife's house trying to kill her. They also found Mike's cell phone number scrawled inside one of the folders. So this must have been a punch in the gut for Susan.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She had already expected that Mike was involved, but When going back to get some things from her house, she basically found proof. The man she had invested 17 years of her life in wanted her dead. Police were convinced and they prepared to arrest Mike and charge him with conspiracy to murder. Problem is, nobody knew where he was at this point, but Susan had a pretty good idea.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
The beach had always been a refuge for Mike, a place where he could go to clear his head. But now, as the hours ticked past and the truth that his plan had failed became unavoidable, Mike, who's at the beach, realized, I probably can't go home. It's probably not safe for me anymore. I mean, if my plan failed and he's dead and she killed him...
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
uh this isn't good he'd made a mistake not him of course ed hitman had made a mistake and screwed things up and as a result of ed's failure mike was now exposed having left a note that told police exactly where to find him so he went on the run for several days trying to make a plan luckily for susan mike was spotted before he made his next move on september 15 2006 nine days after the attempted murder
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Mike was arrested. He insists he's innocent, tells the police he's suicidal. Mike's daughter from the first marriage claims to police know he'd left a suicide note. Was it real? Was it just like the note he'd left at Susan's? Either way, the claim didn't help his case. Mike was charged with conspiracy to commit aggravated murder, just like his friend Ed had been more than 10 years before.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He was held on a $1 million bail. In January of 2007, his daughter raised the money to get him released on house arrest, but the landlord of the place where Mike was supposed to be staying refused to let him lodge there. So back to jail Mike went, much to Susan's relief. She was now living with what she called two life sentences.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
The pain of knowing that Mike had tried to kill her, and Mike do so again if he gets the chance, and the pain of having taken someone's life. She expressed this to Mike during his September 2007 sentencing hearing. in which she was given permission to address him in the court, her husband, her ex-husband.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Susan looked into his eyes, this man she had once loved, a man she thought was kind, and she said, as long as you live, I will never have a measure of peace, but I will not be destroyed. Susan has remained true to her word. While Mike was sentenced to 10 years in prison, Susan dedicated herself to using that time to help people. She became an outspoken victims advocate.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She started several organizations to assist victims of violent crime. She even helped create a website where people in her county can look up the status of their cases and the locations of their offenders.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Right. I mean, this is especially given, she still needed to watch her back, right? She creates this website because it's also going to help her. Mike was behind bars, but... He could still get out. He could hire someone else to hunt her again. So Susan combated that unnerving thought by suing him.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She was awarded over $1 million in damages, an amount that Mike could never pay, which was exactly her intention. She didn't want the money. She just wanted to be sure that wherever he was, Mike would never be able to pay someone. um sie wieder zu töten. Sie wollte seine Verschuldung zerstören, damit er es nicht wieder tun konnte. Aber das war nicht genug.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
In 2015 hat Susan gelernt, dass Mike auf der ersten Eröffnung rausgegangen ist. Sie hat sich gewechselt, sie hat ihren Namen verändert. Also als Verletzte, die fast gestorben ist, muss sie jetzt auch ihre Identität verändern, was sehr schrecklich ist. Nur um sicher zu sein. Und jetzt hat sie zusätzliche Voraussetzungen genommen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Sie hat in der Nähe ihrer Hausaufgabe, um zu hören, ob jemand aufgehört hat oder vorbeigekommen ist. Sie hat Kameras installiert und hat angefangen, Lektionen im Schussbereich zu machen. All diese Jahre später war Susan immer noch enttäuscht von dem Fakt, dass sie gezwungen wurde, ein Leben zu nehmen. Aber sie war nicht schuldig. Sie wusste, dass, wenn die Zeit wieder kam, sie bereit wäre.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Glücklicherweise erhielt sich die Bedrohung nie, weil Mike von Prostate-Kranken gestorben ist, ein paar Monate vor seinem ersten Erlebnis. Susan expressed mixed feelings when she learned of her ex-husbands death. She said, I don't mourn his passing. Instead, I mourn the life he could have had. If only he could have opened his heart for those of us who cared about him.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So despite everything she'd been through, Susan still hadn't let it change her. She remained true to herself. She no longer loved her ex-husband when he died, but she would always wish that she had been able to save him. And that is the story of Susan Kuhnhausen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
I just heard about a case where a man had hidden cameras in the bathroom at his house and had been basically collecting child pornography on his own children and his wife's children because they were married and she had children with another man. Vorher verheiratet. Und er wird verhaftet.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Und wirklich der Knall in seinem Koffer ist, dass sein Vaters Sohn, den er verheiratet hatte, aber auch... Schrecklich. ... Images von, gegen ihn testifizieren würde. Also hat er versucht, jemanden zu hirten, um seinen Sohn zu töten. Mensch. Ich meine, er hat sich natürlich nicht um ihn kümmern lassen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Das ist tatsächlich verrückt. Es ist verrückt.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
And to find out, oh, my dad tried to kill me.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
After ruining my life, basically. Yeah. You know what, though? Susan's case just goes to show, like... She's a fighter, man. She is a fighter. She wants to do good. She immediately felt bad about having to kill someone in self-defense.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
You know what I mean? All right, you guys. That is our episode for today. And we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Our sources for today's episode include adultfyi.com, blurredbylines.com, katuabc, mbcnews.com, The Associated Press, The Oregonian, True Crime Magazine, The Seattle Times, I Survived, Episode 502, Nothing Personal, Murder for Hire, Episode 201.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Okay, so I think a common question with people who watch or listen to true crime that can definitely come off weird to the non-true crime people out there is, how do you get away with murder? Like, what is the perfect murder? How would you do it? How do you make sure you have an alibi?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He did not commit the perfect murder. In theoretical speaking there is no perfect murder but a way to get away with murder. And after doing so many episodes I do have a little piece of advice for you. If you are going to kill someone
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Well, I'm just saying, when we're thinking about this question, after doing so many episodes, do not hire a hitman. It just... Don't do it. It never works out well. It creates an evidence trail. It leaves witnesses, at least one beside you. It makes you a witness, or more accurately, a co-conspirator. It is a bad plan. So many things go wrong, and usually they do. However, they rarely...
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
go as badly as they did for the hitmen in today's case, who conspired to take a life but actually ended up losing their own. That is the story we are talking about today. And it actually begins in an emergency room at Providence Portland Medical Center in Portland, Oregon. The year was 1988. An ER nurse named Susan Collins was going through her day.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She was assessing patients' conditions, administering meds, communicating with doctors. She was basically saving lives in this Portland, Oregon hospital in 1988, okay? Und sie liebte ihren Job. Sie liebte den schnellen Schritt, sich auf ihre Füße zu denken. Sie liebte, Menschen zu helfen. Aber als sie 33 war, begann Susan ein bisschen mehr aus dem Leben zu wollen. Sie wollte mehr rausgehen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Sie wollte in Liebe fallen. Also einen Tag nach dem Ausflug von ihrem Schiff, ging Susan heim und beschloss, eine persönliche Adresse in den Journalismus zu stellen. This is basically like the 1988 version of Tinder. Okay, so she wrote a little profile on herself. Single, white female, 33. Overweight, but not over life.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
If you're interested in a bright, funny woman who wants to explore the Northwest, give me a call. Then she sent it off and waited for the results. She was a little anxious. Susan had nerves of steel in the emergency room, but she had never put herself out like this in the dating world. She wasn't sure what to expect.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So she was very pleasantly surprised when she got a response from a kind, soft-spoken man named Mike Kuhnhausen. Now, Mike didn't exactly look like Prince Charming.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He was stocky, bearded, with long sandy hair, oversized glasses. But he shared a lot of Susan's interests as well as her taste for adventure. He liked getting out in nature, spending time at the beach. Susan actually had a great time with him. So much so, in fact, that she overlooked his personal baggage. Mike Kuhnhausen was divorced with two kids from a previous marriage.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
And that wasn't a problem for Susan. But the sticky part was... He was kind of bitter about it, okay? Mike equated divorce with failure. He resented his ex for making him fail. He also felt that she had taken advantage of him financially. These were maybe not red flags, but warning signs, things that you want to keep an eye on. Susan saw them, but she remained undeterred. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So for the first few years of matrimony, Susan and Mike got along great. Okay, they continued their adventures, going birdwatching and butterfly spotting. They took a nice trip up the Oregon coast. But every now and then, those warning signs that she saw about Mike in the beginning would pop up. Mike could become extremely negative and bitter, especially when things were not going his way.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
I mean, Mike often felt like the world was against him. And he was obsessed with money. And this might have been the real first red flag. To Susan, money in itself had little value. She didn't really care about possessions. She cared about people and experiences. That was how she preferred to spend her money, which was indeed hers, given that she worked long hours at a strenuous job to earn it.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Mike, on the other hand, cared a lot about money and about things. So, get this, this is how their marriage was, okay? At the same time as he was getting on Susan for spending money to go see a movie, Mike had spent huge sums of money on a collection of sports memorabilia. Old baseball cards, jerseys, autographed gloves.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He considered it an investment, believing his collection was worth tens of thousands of dollars. Now, Susan wasn't so sure, but it wasn't his delusion that bothered her, nor the expense. Susanne begann schmerzhaft zu werden, dass Mike viel zu viel Zeit im Wohnzimmer verbracht hatte, um seine Kollektion aufzunehmen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Susanne sah es so aus, als würde er sich besitzen, als würde er sich von der Welt entfernen. Und das war der Mann, mit dem sie sich verliebt hatte, während sie die Natur besuchte. Es sah nicht gut aus für ihn oder ihre Beziehung, so viel Zeit im Wohnzimmer zu verbringen. So Susan tried talking to Mike about her concerns. She said, hey, she noticed him pulling back, she asked what was wrong.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She said if he didn't feel comfortable talking about it with her, maybe he could go see a therapist. Now unfortunately, Mike refused to admit that there was anything wrong, at least with him. But he certainly found plenty of fault with others.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
This was another concerning trait of Mike's, maybe even another red flag. He had a tendency to blame other people for his own problems, which, yeah, not fun to be around. If Mike was angry, somebody made him angry. If Susan was unhappy, well, she was just a nag. Not wanting to fight with her husband, Susan decided to just let the matter drop and she focused instead on what she could control.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So she accepted Mike's new interests. She tried to show that she loved and supported him. She kept encouraging him to get out in the world, to spend time with her and her friends. Susan believed that with proper care, Mike would eventually heal whatever was ailing him and go back to being the man that she had originally fallen in love with. 17 Jahre. 17 Jahre.
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252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Gerrit zeigte Zeichen von neurologischen Symptomen in seinem Kopf. Also gingen wir und hatten ein MRI. Erkrankung. Gute Nachrichten. Kein Tumor. Nur eine Zyst.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So, as time goes on in their marriage, Mike starts becoming suspicious of Susan. He developed this belief that like his ex, Susan was going to leave him and take all of their money. Never mind that most of that money was Susans from her job as a doctor. Mike hatte verschiedene seltsame Jobs während ihres Verheirats, aber er brachte kaum so viel mit, wie sie es machte.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Das könnte seine Unschuld beeinträchtigen. Es könnte auch seine Schmerzen über die Welt erhöhen. Mike kam dazu, zu fühlen, dass er aus einer richtigen Chance am Leben verletzt wurde. Und in einer Art und Weise hätte er einen Punkt gehabt. Er und Susan haben selten darüber gesprochen, aber Mike hat in Vietnam gearbeitet.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Er hat sich über seine Erfahrung nur einmal in ihrer gesamten Beziehung geöffnet. Und an dieser Angelegenheit hat Mike Susan gesagt, dass er auf langen Rangpatrouillen war. Und es kam ein Tag, als sein Team geordert wurde, ein Dorf zu attackieren. He was told that the town was occupied by enemies. But upon executing his orders, Mike discovered this town was full of children.
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252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He didn't go into what happened next, but Susan could see it still affected him. Thinking he might have PTSD, she suggested he talk to someone at the Vet Center or Veteran Affairs. Once again, Mike refused. He told Susan he didn't need therapy, because he had devised his own way of dealing with these harmful memories. As he put it, he would simply put them all in a room and lock the door.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Once again, Susan backed down in the face of resistance, but she couldn't forget her concern. Mike could very well think he could manage his pain by just shoving it away, but as someone who'd spent her whole life saving victims of trauma, Susan knew those doors rarely stayed locked forever. So by 2005, Susan was reaching the end of her rope in her marriage.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She had spent 16 years trying to make this marriage work. She felt like Mike was not doing the same. He continued to withdraw and reject her efforts to help him. What was more concerning was he was also just getting angrier and becoming threatening. Mike hatte immer eine Tendenz, wenn er wütend war, zu weinen, aber jetzt kamen seine Ausbrüche aus dem Nichts und sie haben Susan oft getarget.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
So sehr, dass sie nicht auf die Beziehung gewinnen wollte, fehlte Susan, dass sie sich gegen domänische Gewalt wehren. Also hat sie irgendwann um die Weihnachtszeit gesagt, hey, du musst rausgehen. Und er hat. Und Susan war begeistert. Für das erste Mal in Jahren fühlte sie sich, als würde sie endlich entspannen.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
And I do want to say, although she asked him to move out, she still hadn't given up on Mike. Susan didn't necessarily want to get back together, but she didn't want this to be some ugly divorce. She was like, maybe we can remain friends.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
And she showed that in a variety of ways by continuing to communicate, inviting Mike to friendly get togethers and trusting him with the code of her home security system. Now it used to be theirs, but now she's living there alone. The Alarm Code had always been their anniversary. 12-11-88. And when she asked Mike to leave, Susan didn't change this.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
She believed that once they were apart, Mike would take the opportunity to heal. Sadly, he did not. He apparently put on enough of a front to convince Susan he was fine and worthy of being trusted. But when he was alone, Mike just sat and simmered in his rage. He felt that he was failing at marriage a second time. And he blamed Susan, just like he had blamed his first wife.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
He was also more convinced than ever that she had kicked him out and she was planning to screw him over in the divorce. He was determined to stop her from doing so. He wasn't going to let this happen again. How? How do you prevent someone from doing something that's only happening in your head?
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Leider hat Mike seine Meinung gemacht, dass der einzige Weg, um das Gesicht, das Geld, das Haus und seine Sports-Memorabilität-Kollektion zu vermeiden, obwohl Susan diese ganze Zeit komplett zivil war, war, Susan zu töten, bevor sie ihn verheiratet hätte.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Das ist einfach eine schlechte Attitüde.
Murder With My Husband
252. The Hitman Survivor - Susan Kuhnhausen
Und ich denke, dass du weißt, wenn du immer der Gefühle bist, bist du nie verantwortlich für deine Gefühle oder deine Emotionen oder dein Leben. Ja, du gehst einen kräftigen Fluss in deinem Geist, der anfängt, Mörder zu verurteilen. Ich weiß, dass das ein großer Lauf war, aber ich meine nur, wenn du immer der Gefühle bist und jeder ist immer auf dich hin und du lebst das für 17, 20, 30 Jahre.
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269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Yes. If a woman gets murdered, the percentage that it was her spouse is probably way higher than if a man gets murdered and the percentage that it was his spouse.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
It's got to be higher.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Yeah, I do get what you're saying.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Okay, Mr. Advanced Statistics, I wasn't thinking about that.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So the spouse, and while they don't have any initial reason to believe Diane was involved, they ask her a few questions to rule her out anyway. Though the more they start talking to Diane, the more they wonder, okay, is she actually involved in this? Police's suspicions kind of start from the moment Diane actually showed up at the crime scene that day.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Because some say that Diane, despite hearing the news that her husband's just been murdered, didn't really seem too surprised or emotional in the moment. Though, I mean, I feel like this is in every single source of every case that we do. And I'm just like, when are we going to start learning that People's reactions in crisis and stress sind so unterschiedlich, so groß.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Ich glaube nicht, dass wir eine gemeinsame Reaktion erwarten würden. Also für mich ist das einfach kein Beweis, dass jemand bescheuert ist. Aber das ist nicht das einzige Zeichen, das sie folgen, wenn es um Diane geht. Sie sagt auch den Polizisten, dass sie einige finanzielle Probleme befinden. Also ist es nicht so, als ob Bob das von Diane gehalten hätte. Ja.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Es gab nicht viel Geld, das Geschäft flüsterte und sie hatten eine schwierige Zeit, die Karten zu bezahlen. And there's a couple of red flags that go off for detectives at this point. One of them being the fact that Diane seems to have a bad memory. Only when it comes to certain things, though. Like her social security number and whether or not Bob has any life insurance policies.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Now Diane says she's only had one through her workplace, the life insurance, but it was for no more than $5,000 and it was her life insurance policy. What she seemingly forgets to tell police is Bob did have his own and Diane was about to receive more than $300,000 after Bob's death.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Though it's not until police start checking with insurance companies that they actually realize this. Diane never tells them herself. So, of course, because she keeps this from them, it makes her look suspicious. And that's not the worst of it. See, Diane has some family secrets as well. Ones that don't exactly look great for her when she mentions them to detectives.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
On the day of Bob's death, Diane speaks with a female detective and sort of opens up to her and she says, look, don't take this as a confession, but this same thing happened to my dad. And here's what she means. When Diane was 26 years old, so about two decades prior, her father was working as a St. Louis police officer.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
But on the morning of April 6th, 1984, at around 2.30 a.m., her mother dials 911 and claims someone broke into the house, stole his gun, and shot him to death. Now when police get to the house, they find Diane's mother, Lenore. She has no tears, her hair is fully done, and when police question her, she's casually smoking a cigarette. She has no emotion.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Sounds a little familiar. Well, Lenore tells the police there's been a man following them lately and he's been leaving notes at the house, including one on the night Diane's father died that said, this is for what you did to me. But as police really get into their investigation, they learned there was no forced entry into the home.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
The door to the garage where Lenore said the man broke in was deadbolted shut, among many other clues. And eventually it was Lenore, Diane's mother, who was charged with murdering her husband, Diane's father. So you can kind of see why Diane mentions this to police, because it would be suspicious if she didn't say, hey, my mom was arrested and charged for shooting my dad in the face.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
And now my husband has been shot in the face.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So the similarities are a little glaring, especially when they hear that Bob was scared to death of Lenore. That's his mother-in-law, particularly because she was actually waiting in their home as she awaited trial. And rightfully so. I mean, he had an accused murderer sleeping under the same roof as him. So Bob was always locking their bedroom door.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
He was afraid to be alone in the house with his mother-in-law. But in a pretty shocking turn of events, Lenore was actually found not guilty by a jury and she was acquitted for that crime.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
I'm not sure how this entire thing affected Bob and Diane's marriage, but the verdict probably didn't put him at ease and it unfortunately wasn't giving police any confidence in Diane either. So the next time the police speak with Diane, they ask her, hey, why don't you just take a polygraph test so we can clear your name?
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
The scaring uses a tactic to be like, you failed.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
She had nothing to do with her husband's murder and her results come back inconclusive. She doesn't fail, but they can't get a read on her. So the next step is for police to get a closer look at Bob's personal life and Diana agrees to let them take his computer for analysis.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
and what they find there honestly changes the course of this investigation so one of the first things they find on bob's computer is that he has been visiting homosexual websites and not just pornography it's more like hookup websites think grinder before grinder yeah so that leads detectives to subpoena bob's phone records because now they're wondering
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Ist das ein Geheimtagesstück, das nach außen ging? Jemand, der sich um Blackmail oder sogar Bob auslöst. Und wenn sie in seinen Anrufhistorien schauen, finden sie, dass Bob mit einer Person ziemlich regelmäßig verhalten hat. Jemand, der aus der Stadt lebt, etwa drei Stunden weg. Es ist ein Mann namens Drew Smith. Hier ist das Ding, aber.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Drew und Bob hatten nicht nur ein langweiliges emotionales Verhältnis. Offensichtlich treffen sie sich in Motels, die näher zu Drews Heimatstadt sind, wenn Bob weggehen könnte. Also, die Polizei denkt, wir müssen mit Drew sprechen, weil er Bobs Liebling ist. Und ehrlich gesagt, was sie entdecken, ist ziemlich schmerzhaft. Denn nicht nur fühlte Bob, als ob er dieses doppelte Leben lebt.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Sag mir, was du gestern Abend gemacht hast.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
It turns out, according to Drew, he and Bob really were in love. They spoke to each other several times a day. And I guess Bob was telling himself he wanted to eventually just come out to his wife and then have a relationship with Drew. Drew even had a tattoo for Bob on his arm. Meanwhile, Bob had been keeping little souvenirs from their meetups and dates together.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Now, Drew has an alibi for where he was during the time of Bob's death. And he passes a polygraph, so he's kind of ruled out as a suspect pretty quickly. But police discover something else. The secret life that Bob was living, well, it wasn't so secret after all. Diane, Bobs Frau, hat sich über einige der E-Mails, die Bob zu Drew gesendet hatte, übernommen.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Sie wusste über dieses Liebesverhältnis. Und als sie Bob darüber konfrontiert hat, hat er es allgemein negiert. Aber Diane war so, nein, das ist wahr.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Could she have been angry about this relationship? She maybe hired someone to put? No, I don't see that happening. Could be wrong. Das Problem ist jedoch, dass es nur geistige Beweise gibt, wenn es um Diane geht. Nichts Konkretes, das sie physisch zu dem Verbrechen verbindet. Also beginnt Bobs Fall kalt. Bis etwa zwei Jahre später, als die St.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Charles Polizei eine Anrufung von einem DNA-Investigations-Team bekommt.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So remember how the police cut out Bob's pocket where his wallet usually was? The thinking was that if someone yanked his wallet from his pocket, there would be touch DNA. Well, in 2009, investigators learn the DNA they pulled from that pocket finally has a match. And it's someone the police would have never guessed. This man's name is Paul White and he was a customer at Bob's insurance agency.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
There were even files on Bob's desk when he died with Paul's name on them. So it's a current client. They also discover that a month or so after the murder, Paul White was a passenger in a car that was stopped for a traffic violation. It was expired registration. The driver's name was Cleo Hines.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Und Cleo Hines führte einen leichten Ford Focus, genau wie der, der in den Minuten vor und nach dem Mord vor und nach Bob's Büro gefahren wurde. Paul ist ziemlich leicht zu finden, weil er im Gefängnis ist, wenn sein Name endlich in diesem Fall erscheint. Es ist für eine völlig unabhängige Anzeige für Verbrechen, aber das ist nicht das Einzige, was auf Paul Whites Wortschicht steht.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Ich meine, dieser Kerl wurde mit einigen verschiedenen Dingen über die Jahre verurteilt, v.a. Verbrechen und Verbrechen. Ich glaube nicht, dass Mord auf dieser Liste war. However, when police show up to the prison to question Paul, he completely denies having anything to do with Bob's murder. Actually says it was physically impossible for his DNA to be on that pair of pants.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So with Paul not willing to show any of his cards, detectives realize they need to pivot. And now they are looking at the man who was driving the car during that traffic violation, the owner of the white Ford Focus, Cleo.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
What they learn is Cleo was living with Paul before his arrest. So they think, all right, we're starting to get somewhere. They have this relation, like a personal relationship, at least. Maybe we should bring Cleo in for questioning. Maybe he'll flip on Paul. I mean, maybe he was the getaway driver. And almost the second he sits his butt down in the hot seat, he cracks like an egg.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
He's like, yes, okay, I was involved in Bob's murder, but I was just the getaway driver. I swear. In fact, he doubles down saying, no, Paul actually forced me to do this. He literally held me at gunpoint and made me drive him there and back. Cleo claims that the night before Paul had lost over $1,200 at a casino and was desperate to make up for it.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
He told Cleo he knew a guy that kept a bunch of cash at his business on site and they were going to go rob him. This was literally a day of decision. He said Paul had actually woken him up that morning with a pistol to his head, forcing him to get up and do it. And when Cleo was asked what kind of gun Paul was wielding that day, Cleo said it was a 9mm Glock.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
This is the same exact kind of gun that was used to kill Bob. So police now know this is likely the truth, or at least Paul and Cleo are in fact involved in Bob's murder. Maybe we don't know the specifics, was he actually forced, but they believe now that these are the two guys. But the entire time, Cleo is insisting like, I never got out of the car. All I did was drive Paul to the scene.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Our sources for this episode are abc.com, abcnews.go.com, fox2now.com, yahoo.com, oxygen.com, aol.com, caselaw.finelaw.com, stltoday.com and happyscribe.com. I think it's safe to say that most people have secrets. Little things they've done that they don't intend to share with anyone else. Whether it's a small thing about themselves or even a bigger thing.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
He got out, he got the cash and got back in the car and I drove away. So now police realize, we gotta go back to Paul and let him know Cleo's turned on him. And this time, not knowing that his buddy is speaking out against him, Paul says, okay, I'm gonna confess. I did kill Bob Eidman that day, but I didn't do it alone.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Paul sagt, am Morgen des Verbrechens haben er und Cleo das Geld am Casino verloren. Sie sind um die Stadt gegangen, um Leute zu robben und haben an einem Punkt die Leute aus Wal-Mart getarget. Aber als sie bemerkten, dass es zu viele Kameras gab, kam Paul mit einer anderen Idee. Sie sollten einfach seinen Sicherheitsagenten, Bob Eidman, nachgehen.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Paul wusste, dass Bob ein paar Karten auf dem Ort gehalten hat, weil seine Frau es gesehen hat, als sie sich für ihre Sicherheitspolitik vor einem Monat oder zwei früher gezeichnet hat. And then Paul says the two of them drove to Bob's office together. They both got out of the car. They both put on masks and went into Bob's office where they demanded he give them the cash.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Bob gave them 300 bucks that he had on hand. But when they demanded more and Bob said he didn't have it, they ripped his wallet out of his pants in a spur of a moment decision, decided to shoot Bob several times and left.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
300 Dollar.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
By a random client who he had done nothing wrong to. For 300 dollars. 300 dollars.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
150 each. That's insane. Now I will say Paul changes his story a lot during his confession. So this is the best version I kind of wrapped up for you. But I will add this. Neither Paul nor Cleo ever mentioned Diane. They were both asked individually if they had ever heard of Diane. And they were like, no.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Which means Diane Eidman, who was probably the main person of interest in this case, simply because of her family history, what happened between her dad and mom, her not so good memory, her husband's affair.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Well, she's cleared all because of a little touch DNA on a pair of pants. Like literally because they cut out this pocket.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
That thought, let's just cut it out. Because, I mean, you can't test everything for touch DNA. This is the issue with crime scenes is like you... You would hope that they could go around to every square footage of a building and test everywhere, but that's not, you have to test the most common places, a place someone would touch or grab. So it was so smart for them to test that pocket.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Now Paul White and Cleo Hines are both charged with first degree murder and first degree robbery. Paul pleads not guilty to the charges. His trial only lasted three days. The jury's deliberations are quick and just two and a half hours they come back with a verdict of guilty on all counts. He's later sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Now Cleo Hines on the other hand chose to enter an Alford plea. We've talked about this before. It basically means he's not officially saying he did it, but he has evidence against him and he doesn't want to go to trial. So he'll take an Alford plea. So Cleo gets a lesser conviction than Paul does because of this. He gets second degree murder with first degree robbery.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
He is sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Ich meine, er hat eine Chance, sich rauszuholen, aber seine Worte sind noch technisch schlecht.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Most people have something they probably plan to take to the grave. But sometimes those secrets do not get buried along with us. Especially when death culminates in a murder investigation. That's when our secrets matter the most. What wasn't someone telling their friends or family? Who were they talking to that no one even knew about? And could that have led to their premature death?
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Ich meine, wir haben Co-Konspiratoren in acht Jahren gesehen.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Nun, leider, weil der Umstände, die den Tod von Bob betreffen, und das ist, worüber ich vorhin gesprochen habe, und das ist etwas, das so traurig und schrecklich ist, aufgrund von jemandem, der ein Mörder ist, alles über ihre Leben wird auf den Blast gestellt. Ja. Also diese Geheimnisse, die Bob hatte, He doesn't get to take to the grave with him.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Und das ist etwas, was ich schwierig zu beobachten finde, dass manchmal wir in die persönlichen Leben der Menschen reingehen, um herauszufinden, wer sie getötet hat. Aber in Bobs Fall brauchte nichts davon, um zu lernen, was wirklich am Tag passiert ist. Ich meine, dass er dieses Verhältnis hatte, dass er einen Mann hatte, mit dem er verliebt war, war ein großer Teil dieses Verhältnisses.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Es war die Nummer eins Grund, warum Diane ein Verbrecher war, um herauszufinden, dass es nichts damit zu tun hatte.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Nein, und das ist nicht falsch. Ich meine, das ist das, was meistens passiert, wenn du in jemandens Leben gehst, wirst du die Antwort finden. 100%. At the end of the day, Paul and Cleo stole a lot more from Bob than just $300 in his life. They stole Bob's privacy. That's something Bob and his family will never really get back. And that is the murder case of Bob Eidman.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
It's not like they shot him and then found out there was only $300. They got the $300 from him and then chose to shoot him. So, they basically confirmed that his life was only worth $300.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
These are Garrett's thoughts and Garrett's alone.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
All right, you guys. Thank you for listening to this week's episode. And we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
No matter how big or small, a victim's secrets are often the biggest clue in a murder investigation. At least that's what TV leads us to believe. But sometimes secrets are nothing more than a scandalous distraction. One that forces us to ignore reality. Because secrets aren't always deadly. Oftentimes the answer to murder lies in the mundane. So let's dial back the clock.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
to the year 2007 as we head to St. Charles, Missouri. Just west of St. Louis, St. Charles is this suburban little town mostly filled with commuters. The sort of place where people have spent generations, where everyone knows everyone and is generally considered a peaceful, safe little community. It also happens to be where 48-year-old Bob Eidman and his wife Diane call home.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Nun, jeder, der Bob Eidmann kennt, sagt, dass er dieser Teddybär von einem Mann ist. Nur etwa fünf Fuß sechs, aber er hat eine riesige Persönlichkeit. Unglaublich bübbelig und liebbar. Er ist immer Jokes. In der Tat, es scheint, als ob Bob ein bisschen ein Klassenklown war. Growing up too, when he wasn't pulling off pranks, he was testing the boundaries of authority.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Every summer he was having to make up classwork in summer school. But Bob was also easily distracted by girls growing up and shortly after graduating from high school was when Bob met the woman that he would spend the rest of his life with and that was Diane Bolling. Jetzt, nicht nur war Diane ein bisschen höher als Bob, sie hat auch seine scharfe, wittige Persönlichkeit.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Sie könnte mit Bob Knochen zu Knochen gehen und ihn in seinen Platz legen.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
in diesen Fällen? Kann ich auch.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
And he's the husband.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Definitely not Garrett.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
We have amazing news for you. We have new merch.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So, like I said, Diane could go toe to toe with Bob. She could put him in his place. And that was something that Bob loved about Diane. So come the year 2007, they had been married for 20 years. Though they never had any children together, they seemed to have built a nice life for themselves. Diane managed the kitchen at a local hospital while Bob ran his own business.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
He was an insurance agent with his own office in a strip mall along a busy route that ran into St. Louis. But lately, Bob's business in 2007 had fallen on hard times. He wasn't getting as many clients as he used to, which was starting to stress him out a little bit.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
By June of 2007, he basically thought that he was going to stay afloat for a few more months before he would have to close shop entirely.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
But on the 8th of that month in June, Okay, so if it's a mail carrier, how is it also a herd? Mail! Mail! Okay, if it's a guy? No, not mail! Mail! Mail.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
How do I say that?
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
And that's when she saw the unthinkable. She dropped everything and began running up the street calling for help. Stop, please stop. There is a man. I'm delivering the mail right now. He's lying on the floor with the metal on him. So, when more officers are called to the scene, they find Bob Eidman has been shot. There's three bullet wounds on his body.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
It's out. Low key there's this one and it has a little skeleton and a broken heart and it says me and murder with my husband till death.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
One on his chin, one on his neck, and the fatal shot being the one through his eye. All of them appeared to have been fired at close range and all from the same gun. Though there weren't any other signs of a struggle from what police could tell. However, they realized at the crime scene that Bob's wallet is missing. And sources who know him say he always kept his wallet in his back pocket.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So as they are sweeping the crime scene for clues, they gather any ammunition, casings and fingerprints they can find. And they actually do something pretty smart. They cut out the fabric around Bob's back pocket where he usually kept his wallet. And they did this in order to search it for touch DNA. Because if someone took the wallet out of his back pocket, maybe they left something behind.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Now it doesn't take long for local reporters to catch wind of the crime. Homicides only happen about once a year in St. Charles. So this is a pretty big local story. But Diane, Bob's wife, hears that something has happened down at Bob's office and so she rushes to the scene.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
And when she gets there, she tells police, I've been trying to reach Bob all day, he never answered his phone, is everything alright? Though by this point, Diane must know nothing is alright. And it's there, at the scene of the crime, the police break the news to Diane, no, Bob has been murdered. Your husband has been murdered.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Nun, wie ich schon erwähnt habe, ist Mord nicht etwas, mit dem die lokalen Polizisten viel zu tun haben hier in St. Charles. Also nennen sie die Hilfe der Major Case Squad. Und die Major Case Squad hat einen ziemlich guten Rekord. Sie glauben, dass 80 Prozent ihrer Fälle geschlossen werden.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Yes, quick to blame. Was that correct?
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Well, quick to blame the significant other, always. And one of the first things that police start to investigate is what could have motivated someone to show up and shoot Bob Eidman in his office in broad daylight. Well, they think the answer to that might actually lie in Bob's business itself. Remember, Bob was an insurance salesman, but his clientele was sort of on the fringe.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Bob dealt with the kind of people who were high-risk drivers, people with bad credit and challenging histories. Basically people who would have a hard time getting insurance through traditional methods. And since a lot of people would try and pay with bad checks that would bounce...
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Bob was only really accepting cash at this time, which meant Bob's office had a lot of cash in it at any given moment. And apparently Bob didn't have a lot of that money locked up in a safe either. He just kept it in a locked drawer in his desk. Now, whether or not any clients of his knew that, witnesses are unsure. But when police go to that desk drawer, they find there's only $200 inside.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
That is a heck of a lot less than what Bob was supposed to be keeping in there. So between that and his missing wallet, police are thinking, is this a robbery? But why wouldn't they take all the cash then? Why leave 200? Plus, there doesn't seem to have been any forced entry into the place. None of the typical signs you might expect if someone was trying to break in and rob this place.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So police have to consider another possibility. After speaking with Bob's family and friends, they learned pretty quickly about the difficult times that Bob had fallen on. That he was just three months away from basically shutting his business down. So they also wonder, what if Bob had taken a hit out on his own life? Could that have been something he was capable of or even considering?
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
But that same day, police do get a break in the case. One that at least gives them some hint as to who shot Bob Eidman. Let's go. There was a guy carrier running... Aber was es auch bekam, war ein weißer Ford Focus, der zwei Tage am Morgen über Bob's Business fuhr. Einmal um 10.50 Uhr und dann wieder um 10.54 Uhr. Nur das zweite Mal war es viel langsamer.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Es sah ehrlich gesagt aus, als ob der Ford Focus etwas sucht. That's just six minutes before Bob was found dead. Now the police are feeling pretty confident. This car either saw something or was involved somehow. So they need to find out who owns it. Problem is, there's about 5,000 white Ford Focuses on the roads in Missouri at this time. So it's kind of a needle in a haystack.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
aber es scheint, dass sie am selben Tag eine wirklich glückliche Pause haben, weil sie entdecken, dass nicht zu weit von Bobs Geschäft ein weißer Auto ist, das von einem nahen Weg gefahren und verlassen wurde. Und innerhalb dieses weißen Autos ist Bob Eidmanns Business Card. Du musst dir vorstellen, wie es für die Polizei aussieht.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Sie finden die Sicherheitsfotos und sagen, das ist unsere Antwort. Dann sehen sie das weiße Auto und sagen, wir sind zurück zu Square One. Wie finden wir das? Und dann bekommen sie einen Anruf, dass ein weißes Auto zerbrochen ist und dass Bob Eidmanns Card drin ist.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
There was a girl named Bobby at my school.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Bobby sounds like a baby name.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Or like a baby Robert.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Now, the police locate the owner of this vehicle. It is a man named Travis Ensley. When he's called in for questioning, he's actually shocked to learn he's not just there because he abandoned his crashed vehicle and falsely reported it stolen. He's there because he is a person of interest in a murder investigation. And even worse, when they pull Travis in, he has blood on his shirt.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Und Travis ist so, wow, wow, wow, das ist alles ein großes Verständnis. Er sagt, er hatte neue Insurance auf seinem Auto gebraucht, also Bob's Business Card in seinem Auto. Also sagt er, er ging zu Bob, er liebte den Mann, er gab ihm sogar eine gute Rente. Aber die Nacht bevor Travis beantwortet wurde, ging er raus, er hatte ein paar Trinken und brachte sein neu insuriertes Auto.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Und trankig, stürmte Travis nach Hause that night with a broken nose and then woke up the next morning to notice his car wasn't there. He'd forgotten that he crashed it the night before, he called his new insurance and reported it stolen, before finally remembering, oh, actually I think I left it on an embankment not far from my apartment.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
So police think, this is a bit far-fetched, but the blood on Travis' shirt does turn out to be his own. And Travis' alibi holds up as well. He wasn't at the scene of Bob's crime when it happened. Which means, while Travis might have looked like the ideal suspect, police are kind of back to square one.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Though as always, there's one person they can't ignore in a murder investigation, as Garrett said, and that is... Diane, it's always Diane.
Murder With My Husband
269. A Body, A Wallet, and a Web of Lies - The Murder of Bob Eidman
Well, that percentage is going to be different based on if it's the man or the woman.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Okay, that could have gotten there after Melissa walked around the house that morning, sure. But detectives also find clues that say she actually wasn't sound asleep all night, like she had initially told them. Because for starters, police collect all the data from Matthews smartwatch and learn his exact time of death from his health app on there.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Because it's obviously going to track when his heart stopped beating.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
It registered that Matthew's heart stopped beating sometime close to 5 a.m., which lines up with another really chilling piece of evidence that police had collected while canvassing the neighborhood from one of Melissa and Matthew's neighbors.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Yeah, a button. Okay, I'll get you one. So it turns out that the people living across from Melissa and Matthew had a security camera that captured the couple's back yard.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So it captures a piece of the backyard. Now the fence around Melissa and Matthews property keeps you from seeing what's happening out there. But police are like, hey, he crawled out to the backyard. He's found dead in the backyard. Can we please see that footage? But those cameras also capture sound. So they're like, oh, we can't see anything. Wait, there's sound. So they turn it up.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And around 4 a.m., so an hour before his heart stopped beating, am Morgen von Oktober 18. Keine Ahnung, Mann. Du kannst definitiv auf den Nachbarn Sicherheitskamera hören, die von innerhalb von Matthäus und Melissas Haus kommt. Es klingt, als ob Objekte innerhalb des Hauses kratzen, als ob jemand Dinge umdrehen würde.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And then, over the next few minutes, voices start to appear on the security camera sound. And by 4.37 a.m., there is screaming coming from Matthew and Melissa's backyard.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Get up! I hear you! Ich will dir sagen, es klingt fast dämonisch. It's a woman shouting things like, I hate you, you're so effing arrogant, go effing die. And then that's followed by more shouting and things like, get up, get up now, I hate you. Now all of that screaming and crashing seems to go silent by 5.11 a.m.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
that morning, which does again line up with the data collected from Matthews Smartwatch. So the question of suicide is clearly no longer on the table for detectives because you can obviously hear that there is a woman threatening Matthew.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Now the question is, was that a third party yelling at Matthew while Melissa was asleep on that chair that had blood drips to it? Or is it Melissa in the video?
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Now, I do want to tell you all that footage is actually reviewed while Melissa is still in the interrogation room. The more like the day of the murder. So police are working fast on this case. Like they go and talk to neighbors. They're like, pull it up right now. We need to see. Which reminds me of the Chris Watts case.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Some prayers that we get all our recordings done in time.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Where literally. As soon as police respond, one officer, they go to the neighbor's house and look at his security footage.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So detectives go back into the interrogation room and they're like, listen. Your neighbor has security footage and we need you to tell us what happened around 4 a.m. this morning. And Melissa plays down for a while. She's like, what happened at 4 o'clock? I don't know. I told you I was sleeping. And they're like, the neighbor's security camera can pick up on the noise.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
There was loud yelling and screaming coming from your home.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und Melissa ist so, nein, ich war schlau, ich erinnere mich nicht. Und die Detektivs sind so, Melissa, bitte.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und schließlich scheint Melissa einige neue Details zu erinnern. Interessant. Sie sagt, hm, naja, wir könnten eigentlich in eine Argumentation gegangen sein. Aber wir schreien nicht zusammen. Und wenn wir waren, war es wirklich kein großes Problem. So, by this point, Melissa's admitted that she's awake at 4 a.m.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
and that she is arguing with Matthew, which means there was no one else at the house with them. I mean, if there was someone else, she would have said, oh, no, that was someone else. I woke up, there was someone else, right? No, she's saying, no, it was us. There was no one with us.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And when they corner her on that, they're like, okay, Melissa, you do understand that if he died at 5 and there was no third party in your home and you were awake, who killed him? And she's like, actually, as you're saying this, more is coming to my memory. She's like, wait, I do remember something. She says, Matthew was still up at four in the morning and was being super loud and woke me up.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And so we got into a fight about it. Und wenn sie sie fragt, warum sie an ihm schreit, um ihn aufzunehmen, sagt sie, oh, na gut, Matthew war klar nicht sauber an dieser Abend, obwohl er seit Jahren mit seiner Sobriety kämpfte. Und wenn er zu diesem Zustand der Blutung kam, würde er oft schlafen und sich einen schwierigen Zeitraum komponieren.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
But I do want to point out, before all this, Melissa was using the fact that Matthew had struggled with his mental health as a way that this could possibly be suicide, right? Like maybe the police would think it's suicide if she mentions that he sometimes talked about self-harm or really struggled with this.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Right, right. Yeah. Well, no, when that doesn't work, now all of a sudden she's weaponizing his addiction, right? She's like, well, he would just get super drunk and he wouldn't be able to stand up. And so then they're like, okay, whenever we're trying to ask you something, you just like revert to like somehow it's Matthew's fault.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So now they're like, okay, Now that we've gotten her to kind of like reframe her story, change her story already. They said, okay, now can you tell us how you actually got that cut on your hand? And Melissa finally gives in. And she's like, fine, I did murder Matthew, but it was in self-defense. So now she's officially... Does she have an attorney at this point?
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Or is she just straight just... No, and we're still day one. And she is confessing to the murder of Matthew. But now, the first time she's saying it... I mean, her story has changed a thousand times. But now it's self-defense. And this is how her confession goes. Melissa says when Matthew woke her up at 4 a.m. because he was being too loud, it did turn into a pretty ugly argument.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
She said when Matthew got to this point of intoxication, he was also known to bring out knives. Now again, she sort of returns to the first bogus statement. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
basically she says she tried to take it away from matthew when he grabbed her by the neck and started strangling her okay so melissa said she thought matthew was gonna kill her at that moment and so she grabbed the knife that's now in her possession and stabbed him in the back gently though she says i gently stabbed him so that so that she can try and get him off her no way did she really say gently yeah
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und ich habe ihn leise im Hintergrund gestabbt, um ihn aus mir zu holen. Du kannst nicht leise jemanden bestrafen. Auch das klingt viel schmerzhafter, um ehrlich zu sein. Du kannst nicht leise jemanden bestrafen.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Also nachdem das, sagte sie, hat Matthew ihren Kopf in den Konto geschlagen. Und das ist, als sie sich erinnert hat, dass sie weggelassen ist, zurück in ihr Büro kam, wo sie in den Schrank verschloss. weil sie jetzt einen Kopfschmerz hat, bis um 8 Uhr am nächsten Morgen.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und dann sagt Melissa, als sie kam, war sie sicher, dass Matthew noch lebendig war, weil sie nicht dachte, dass diese leichte Stabwunde fädelisch sein würde. Schau dir das an, Melissa scheint keine anderen Schmerzen auf Matthews Körper zu nennen zu machen, wie du dich erinnerst.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Aber sie sagt, dass es nicht ein ungewöhnliches Ereignis zwischen ihnen war, dass sie früher verletzt hat und es war viel physischer Verletzungen. Nach allem kämpfte das Paar, besonders wenn es um die Erkrankung kam, mit der Matthew mit Alkohol kämpfte. Aber nach dem, melissa tatsächlich auf diese Geschichte hinweist und etwas ziemlich Wildes und Verrücktes kommt und sie sagt,
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So yeah, not to mention there was physical abuse, but also Matthew saw demons. That sometimes in their relationship he would stare off into corners of the house and tell her the evil entities were watching them.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und dann, ich weiß nicht, es ist einfach frustrierend. So she says that when all of this happened, the night of his murder, Melissa claims that something had switched in Matthew and that it didn't seem like she was even fighting him during this physical altercation.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Because Matt's not here anymore. Now I know it might seem like days have passed to this point, but I'm trying to tell you all of these story changes and evidence and new things she keeps bringing up happen literally within hours.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So by 2 p.m. That day, remember, she calls police, she wakes up at 8am, it's now 2pm and all of this has happened. Melissa's like, shoot, I should ask for a lawyer. So they let her leave for the night, because she now asks for a lawyer so they can't keep interviewing her. And they're like, we'll let her leave and we'll compile more evidence.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And so they decide to speak with Matthews friends and family next, right? Like, this is normally what happens in an investigation, it's just that they already have a confession at this point.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Right. I mean, if you are struggling with mental health.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Somebody. Not always, but usually. So they start interviewing friends and family. Tell us everything you know about Melissa and Matthew. And to them, it's becoming more and more clear that Melissa's story is likely a bunch of crap. Now, not only do police learn There's actually no evidence that Matthew has ever considered or tried to self-harm.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And when Matthew's brother Sean and his parents hear about his murder, they literally tell police, Melissa killed him. And it wasn't an accident, it was intentional.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Which is a major red flag. If the family or like first things first is that she killed him and it was on purpose.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
There's no question in their mind, because they say Melissa, quote, took Matty long before she took him forever. Like, she took Matt from them long before she killed him. I guess Matthew had cut off his family sometime prior to his death, which was likely at her demands.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Even Sean, his boss and his brother, said that six months prior to the murder, he himself had gotten into a fight with Melissa, Matthew's girl. And from what I can tell, it had to do with how many hours Matthew was working for Sean. So she actually got him to quit. And Matthew and Sean hadn't really been speaking much since.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So she says he's working too much and then he quits his job that he had with his brother.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
But there was more to the story according to Matthew's parents. Apparently, Matthew had gotten involved in Melissa's business, one that caused him to slip into old habits and threatened his sobriety. Because remember how I mentioned Melissa was really into cosplay? Well, what I didn't tell you was that was actually how she made a lot of her money.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
She would dress up like characters and then film sexually explicit content as these characters. Okay. Apparently, she got Matthew to star in these videos alongside her. Melissa actually started this sexual cosplay blog years prior and it was supposed to be temporary a way for her to pay the bills while she found her footing as either an actress or a special effects or makeup artist.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
But over time, Melissa developed a pretty hefty fan base. People who were willing to pay a lot of money to see their favorite fictional character come to life and engage in sexual acts. which meant more people willing to pay for her content as well. Now, I'm not sure if this was like an OnlyFans thing, but I know this cam girl job actually helped her buy that home that they lived in in Tampa.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
But even long before she met Matthew and recruited him to participate in her videos, people saw a change in the Melissa they once knew. So before Matt's even in the picture, people who knew Melissa were starting to feel weird. An ex-boyfriend of Melissa said once she started to see some real growth and success from her cosplay business, the more unhinged she became, if you will.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
In fact, he said Melissa became so obsessed with her business that it consumed every corner of her life. All she thought about was how to make more and more money, and she was willing to do anything to make that happen. It was almost like something switched inside of Melissa, almost like she became manic, unpredictable.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Now, a former roommate of Matthews even comes forward to say, look, he did live with an alcohol addiction, yes.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
But Matthew was never violent when he was drunk. Friends and family come forward and they were like, I've lived with him, I've seen him, I partied with him. He was not a violent drunk. However... It did make Melissa pretty angry, according to friends and family, when Matthew got too intoxicated. To the point where multiple people said they had seen her be the aggressor on more than one occasion.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So Matthew's family has a different theory for police. They think at first Matthew might have been into the idea of helping Melissa out with her cosplay stuff, that the cut and the money he would make was probably enticing.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
und wenn er nicht für seinen Bruder arbeitete, könnte er für sie arbeiten, aber über die Zeit hätte er sich damit ungeheuer gefühlt oder suggeriert, dass er auswählen wollte, und sie glauben, dass das die Gespräche war, die ihren Argument am 18. Oktober spielte. Sie wundern sich auch, ob Melissa tatsächlich einen Partner für ihr Geschäft suchte, als sie Matthew auf Tinder gefunden hat.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
All right, our sources for this episode are cbsnews.com, killorbkilled on peacock.com, tampabay.com, longcrime.com, wfla.com, thesun.com, oxygen.com, sportskeeda.com and sandhillsexpress.com. All right, so I think it's fair to say that we all go through rough patches in life. Das ist der Grund, warum es so wichtig ist, jemanden zu haben, den man wirklich aufstehen und vertrauen kann.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Matthew was in shape. He was handsome. He fit the mold of a good-looking actor. So maybe Melissa had kind of recruited him in a way to help her out with this content. Of course, this is just the family's theory. But I think it makes sense. I mean, a family does know the nuances of a relationship better than... Wir, die Leute, die das recherchieren, und die Journalisten, könnten.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und wenn die Polizei all das hört, denken sie, dass es auch Sinn macht. Die Familie bringt es vor, genug Beweise dieser Theorie, dass sie es kaufen. V.a. reflektierend auf das, was Melissa in der Interview gesagt hat. Und es war, dass Matthew von Dämonen besagt wurde. Melissa ist eine Cosplay-Modellin und Schauspielerin. Und viele der Dinge, die sie macht, sind Horror- und Fantasie-belangt.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So they have to wonder, is this like a script for Melissa? Is she creating her own narrative here? And is she giving the performance of her life while doing so? Possibly, because not a day later, on October 19th, 2019, Melissa is arrested for second-degree murder with a weapon.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
I mean, do we really need a why with domestic violence? No, no, no.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
I don't know. Either way, she is arrested fairly fast and a judge sets her bond for half a million dollars and Melissa puts that home she shared with Matthew up as collateral.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Finally, on November 7th, 2019, the autopsy report comes back with some interesting information. Es wird gesagt, dass die Stabschmerzen auf Mathews Rücken in Wahrheit überflüssig waren, was für die Befragung schwierig sein wird, weil es darstellt hat, dass vielleicht Melissa die Wahrheit darüber erzählte, um Mathew von ihr entfernen zu können, dass die Stabschmerze leise war, wenn du willst.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Sie entdecken auch, dass Mathews Blut-Alkohol-Niveau war, und das war in Quoten in einigen Gründen astronomisch.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Well, it was actually five times over the lethal limit for Florida. However, police never checked Melissa's blood alcohol level. So there's no telling if she was equally as incapacitated during this fight. Ultimately, they find that the cut to Matthew's right bicep severed an artery that led to his real cause of death, which was from blood loss.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Which means, if Melissa had just called 911 at the time of the fight, they might have been able to stop the bleeding and save Matthew's life. So, because of COVID, it takes two and a half years for Melissa to end up in court. But before, there are several attempts by both the defense and the state to make some sort of plea deal. But Melissa maintains it was self-defense.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So when the state says, 25 years in a state Florida prison for... Her attorneys are like, absolutely not. We will plead for five years. And the state's like, no way. So on Valentine's Day 2022, it is time for a jury to decide whether Melissa acted in self-defense or not. Because it's not a question of whether she killed him.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Es ist ein gutes Unterstützungssystem. Ob es ein Partner, ein Vater, eine Schwester, ein Freund, sogar ein Therapeut ist. Ein Hund. Wir alle brauchen jemanden, dem wir vertrauen können. Jemanden, der uns nach unserem besten Interesse sucht. V.a. wenn diese Schwierigkeiten mental nachhaltig sind. Und ich weiß, das klingt wie eine bessere Hilfe-Adresse, aber es ist nicht.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Here's what's interesting. The judge did not allow any mention of Melissa's cosplay career to enter the courtroom.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Well, okay. I understand that the jury might look at her differently if they knew what she did for a living.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Well... Or no. I mean, it doesn't really technically tie into the killings that night.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
I mean, I think the family thinks it does because the family thinks he was leaving and that's what bothered her. But I think it could be helpful for the jury to know that this woman is technically an actress, like she's an aspiring actress. She acts in these videos.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
There's a chance she could cry on demand because right away she goes on to give the jury her sob story about how she thought she was going to die that night and she had no choice but to act in self-defense. She never intended to kill Matthew. And yes, she does take the stand during her own trial. Frankly, the defense had a pretty good chance, like Garrett said, at getting these charges dismissed.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Das ist ein schwieriger Fall, um zu kämpfen. Ja, das ist es. Und vielleicht eine der interessantesten Dinge, die ihren Fall geholfen hat, war in Bezug auf das Sicherheitsbild von der Nachbarschaft. Und ich weiß, dass Sie denken, es wäre das Gegenteil. Das ist das eine, wo man Melissa schreien kann, Absinthen an Matthew und ihn zu töten. Ja.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Well, the defense actually calls a former FBI audio expert to the stand and they say they're pretty sure sections of the audio have been edited and the volume enhanced at trial to make Melissa sound loud and Matthew was practically inaudible. Now, I don't know if this is true. Obviously, like an FBI expert is testifying to it. I don't know if the audio was edited.
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243. The Cosplay Killer
What I do know, though, is that it's very obvious on that audio that Melissa is telling Matthew to die.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
You can't edit that. And that is the truth. And also, I mean, this also could just be the reality of the situation in the audio. Melissa was the aggressor. Matthew could have been stabbed. He could have been trying to calm things down. Or he was already so injured at the point that he couldn't scream. I mean, ultimately, it was up to the jury to sift through this massive pile of fact and fiction.
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243. The Cosplay Killer
But I want to say it didn't take long for one thing to become clear and that was that Melissa wasn't that good of an actress after all. I explained my side and why I did what I did. You're crying right now. Is that what's happening? Are you crying right now? Do you know what tears look like? Die Juristen sahen direkt durch die Tränen, Melissa versuchte, auf dem Stand zu weinen.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Eine Minute auf dem Stand, sie würde wirklich wütend sein und dann einfach einen Schlüssel fliegen und schmerzhaft traurig sein. Und das hat die Juristen wirklich nicht zufrieden gemacht. Aber das war nur der Tipp des Eisbergs, als es kam, Melissa zu beweisen, dass sie schuldig war, weil die Gerichtshofbranche noch einen wunderschönen Punkt in Melissa's Geschichte gebracht hat. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Der Punkt, den ich versuche zu machen, ist, dass diese Lebenslinien alles sind. Und wenn du jemandem vertraust, mit deinen tiefsten, dunklen Geheimnissen, hoffst du, dass sie am wenigsten nie die Geheimnisse, die du ihnen gegen dich gesagt hast, benutzen. Which is why you do have to be careful about who you open up to. Who you trust in those dark times.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Es kommt aus einer ADT-Besuchskamera, die an der Kuppelsfeuer geblickt wurde. Sie hatten also eine Kamera im Haus. Es ist um 3.42 Uhr.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und du kannst Matthew ziemlich ruhig durch ihren Feuer gehen. Alles über seinen Demeanor ist ziemlich normal. Und dann ist Melissa hinter ihm in diesem Foto. Und sie ist überhungert. Sie sieht iratisch aus. Sie ist enttäuscht. Sie ist sehr intoxiziert. Sie ist fast so schrecklich wie Matthew in der Küche. According to the timeline, their fight begins less than 20 minutes later.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And then at 4.08 a.m., Melissa returns into frame. And she's standing in the foyer, just staring at the wall for a moment. And in that clip, you can see that her right hand is covered in blood. And then Melissa turns back and walks back into the kitchen. Now, there's so many alarm bells going off with these tapes. This is nuts. This is insane.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
One of the biggest things the prosecutors point out at trial is, okay, if she's in self-defense, right, and she's in distress, she feels like her life is on the line here, like she's claiming life. Why would you get out of the kitchen where the fight is happening?
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And then like calmly and then run back in. Why would you run back towards your aggressor, the person who's trying to kill you? I think it's pretty clear to say that Melissa probably did not get hit into the head and stumble into her office and that she could have easily called 911 in that moment if her life was in danger.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
But she was either so drunk she couldn't comprehend what was happening or she chose not to. So after less than a week of testimony, the jury came back on February 18th, 2022 with a verdict. The 29-year-old Melissa Turner was found guilty of second-degree murder. She was later sentenced to 20 and a half years behind bars. But the damage Melissa did to Matthews family and his memory was irreparable.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Unreparable. Mathews Mutter pointed out how Melissa not only isolated him from them in the final months of his life, she created this narrative of abuse about him. She slaughtered his name after killing him.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
I mean, she used Matthews hardest battles, his alcoholism, his addiction, as a way to try and throw him under the bus, to shield herself, to protect herself, to cover up the fact that she did murder him. And according to the state, willingly did it as second degree murder. When I think in reality, Melissa was probably the threat all along.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
If you're basing it off of what everyone in their life has said.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Es fühlt sich wie ein ziemlich dreckiges Verhalten an. Jemanden von seiner Familie zu isolieren, sie von ihrem Job zu isolieren, sie komplett wegzutreten, sie auf dich zu verlassen. Das fühlt sich wie aggressives, predatory Verhalten an. Das ist das, was wir sehen, richtig?
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Because in the wrong hands, our darkest moments could be weaponized against us. And in the event of today's case, could even be used to cover up murder. So let's hop not that far back to 2015. Actually, I just said that in 2015 is nine years ago. That's kind of far.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und das ist ehrlich gesagt der Fall von Matthew Trussler und wo er gerade sitzt. Okay, ihr Jungs, das war unser Fall für dieses Wochenende. Und wir sehen uns nächstes Mal mit einem anderen. Ich liebe es. Und ich hasse es. Tschüss.
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243. The Cosplay Killer
But I guess most of our cases are kind of like 90s, even 80s. So it's not. Aber 2015, warum fühlt sich das so an wie drei Jahre her?
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So verrückt. 22-jähriger Matthew Tressler ist gerade nach Florida geflogen, aus Hopkinton, Massachusetts. Nun, Matthews Eltern, Margaret und David, gaben ihm und seinem älteren Bruder Sean eine ziemlich tolle Kindheit in Massachusetts. Das ist von allem, was ich gelesen habe. But like a lot of kids in their teens, Matthew sort of lost his way for a little while.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
He had battled with some substance abuse in his earlier years. So when Sean, who is his older brother, mentioned that he would be moving to Florida to start his own construction business, well, Matthew thought it would be a good opportunity and a fresh start for him as well.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So he packed up his things and followed his brother 1300 miles south to Tampa, where he actually worked as Sean's first employee at his new company. And that's when Sean noticed his little brother turn a corner. The sweet kid with a big heart resurfaced as Matt, who's now 22, embraced this new life for himself. Matthew even started thinking about settling down.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
He created a profile on Tinder, now in Florida, and began swiping. And eventually he came across one pretty face that caught his eye. A 24-year-old girl who loved animals, who went to school for special effects and makeup. An artist who seemed bubbly and kind. Her name was Melissa Turner. The two met up and Melissa said she was immediately taken with Matthew.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Yeah, but it would hit the news later. Okay. So Melissa said that Matthew, quote, drew her in, made her feel important. He was different from other guys she had dated in the past. One date turned into another and then another. And before long, as the story goes, the couple was fully committed to one another.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Matthew opened up to Melissa about his difficult past, his history with drinking and substance abuse. And Melissa told Matthew about her insecurities, how she had been overweight and bullied through a lot of her childhood, and how she worked hard to go from 250 pounds down to 150 pounds in her early 20s. Wow.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Melissa hatte ihre Vertrauen durch dieses Fitness-Journey von ihr gefunden und hatte wirklich angefangen, sich selbst zu entwickeln. Als Matthew Melissa kennengelernt hat, war sie am Traum, eine Schauspielerin zu werden, aber sie war auch sehr in den Cosplay.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Sie trägt sich aus wie Elvira, Misty aus Pokémon, Velma aus Scooby-Doo, besucht Konventionen, das Art von Dingen. Und Matthew sah wirklich unterstützend an der ganzen Sache aus. Im Jahr 2019 war das Paar engagiert und suchte ein Haus zusammen zu kaufen. So they found a place in Riverview, a considerably safe residential suburb of Tampa.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
They were excited about starting their lives together, spending the weekends picking out paint colors and furniture for their new place. And everyone who knew them as a couple thought these two are going to go on and live a long, fruitful life together. That was until the fall of that year. So we're now in 2019. Matthew and Melissa have moved in together in Florida.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
It was actually October 17th, 2019. It started out like any other day for the couple. Matthew and Melissa ran errands together. They went down to Home Depot and then to a grocery store. Then they had lunch out near their Tampa home and then they spent the rest of the night in. Melissa said they ended up cooking dinner, they had a few cocktails and around 11 p.m. she got tired and went to sleep.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
She passed out actually. She went to sleep on a big sofa-like chair that she had in her office while she said Matthew was still up and kind of staying up late. But when she woke up the following morning at around 8.30 a.m. on October 18th, 2019, Melissa found their house a complete disaster. The kitchen was completely trashed. There was blood everywhere.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And Melissa said she was calling out for Matthew, but she couldn't find him. So she ran upstairs and searched their bedroom and the bathroom. But still, there was no sign of Matthew. So this is when she decides to go out into their backyard and look around. Okay. Okay. So now Melissa tells police that she honestly, she was home, but she has no idea what happened.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And boy oh boy, do we have news for you because our merch is live for Black Friday. We've brought back a ton of our most requested merch. Designs, yes, that means our basics. Yes, that means strangey-dangey. Yes, that means into the dark merch. Honestly, we have it all. Links are going to be everywhere. Go check it out. Again, it's for Black Friday.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
She said she just woke up and found him in this bloody mess. So police ask Melissa if they can search the house and she's like, yes, go right ahead. They have her sign a consent form and then they give her these latex gloves to wear, probably so she doesn't touch anything else in her home now that it's an active crime scene.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
And when they look inside, they find a lot of broken glass, including one piece that has a pretty good amount of blood on it. And they also discover a black switchblade that, when flipped open, also has blood on the inside blade. And there's a ridiculous amount of blood in the kitchen.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Like, one of the state prosecutors who was at the scene said it was the bloodiest crime scene she had ever witnessed in her career. It...
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Well, I don't know. Interesting. Well, detectives think that because of how much blood is inside the kitchen, they believe that Matthew probably mostly bled out inside the home and then ended up crawling out of the screen of the window out to the patio. So they're like following the blood and this is what they think has happened.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
They also think this because the window appears to be pushed open, which is weird, obviously. So police are wondering, was he trying to get away from someone? Like, why crawl outside if no one else is in the house? Why not crawl to a phone? Because it definitely looks like he was trying to get outside. So the wounds on Matthews body become even more confusing to detectives.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
He has multiple lacerations all over him. But the one that looks fatal was actually a deep cut to his right arm. Oh, interessant.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Well, she tells police, she's like, listen, I had a few drinks last night, I passed out and then genuinely I woke up and found Matthew in that state in the backyard.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Die Polizei sagt, okay, ja, wir hören ihre Geschichte. Aber was sie am meisten schuldig war, war, dass es eine wirklich schreckliche Krimiszenz war. Es gab viele Zeichen von Schwung in der Küche allein, gebrochenes Glas. Also wie in der Welt schlief Melissa durch so etwas? Nein, ja, es gibt keinen Weg.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und hier ist das, was anders seltsam ist. In der Interview mit den Polizisten kommt Melissa immer noch mit den Latex-Glöcken, die sie ihr an der Krimiszene gegeben hat. Okay, aber die sind so wie, hey, wir sind nicht mehr an der Krimiszene, du weißt, du kannst diese Glöcke jetzt wegnehmen, du musst sie nicht hier tragen. Und sie ist so wie, oh nein, es ist okay, ich lasse sie einfach auf, danke.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So if you've missed something and you wanted to get it, now is the time to do so.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Und so sind die Detektiven dann so, was? Okay, also interviewen sie sie mit ihnen an und dann sagen sie, wir müssen dich jetzt fotografieren, also musst du die Glöcke entfernen. Und so nimmt sie die Glöcke weg. Oh, ich weiß, was du sagen wirst.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Na ja. sie bemerkten, dass sie unter den Knöpfen eine ziemlich große Schleimhaut auf ihrer Palme versteckte. Ja. Wie eine Schleimhaut, die tief genug war, dass es Stücke benötigte. Wie es blutig war, wie es Stücke benötigte. Und sie sind so, oh, warum hast du nicht darüber gesprochen? Was ist das? Und sie sagt, nein, es war nur so, dass ich vor dem 9-1-1-Aufruf war.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Ich war in, ich ging rein und ich habe einen der gebrochenen Gläser verabschiedet. Aber dann, als die Polizei sie umdreht, um Bilder von ihr zu nehmen, entdecken sie, dass das nicht ihr einziger Schmerz ist. Sie hat auch einen Schmerz auf ihrem Nacken. An diesem Punkt begann die Polizei, Melissa' Geschichte zu kaufen. Melissa, was zur Hölle hast du gemacht?
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Du hattest den ganzen Schmerz, aber du hattest auch einen riesigen Schmerz auf deiner Hand und dann auch auf deinem Nacken. So they decide at this point to press her a little further. They were like, hey, did you guys as a couple ever fight? Did things ever get physical between you? And Melissa's like, no, absolutely not. Things between us were great. But there was one thing.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Melissa said Matthew always tried to hide from her when he was sad or depressed. But he had on more than one occasion talked about self-harm, according to Melissa. So they asked her, were you guys ever physically violent? She's like, no, but Matthew did hide kind of this violent towards himself side of him. She said he always feared he was going to, quote, die young.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
So now police are considering this and they're like, okay, is she alluding that maybe this was suicide? There's no way he could have.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
But also it's not like he was stabbed. They were more slashes and that wound on his arm wouldn't have made this impossible. Like you can definitely give yourself a fatal wound on your arm, right? So when police run this scenario against other details found at the crime scene, though, they're like, ah, it just doesn't add up.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
Because alongside some defensive looking wounds on Matthew's body, the medical examiner actually finds a stab wound in his back.
Murder With My Husband
243. The Cosplay Killer
The medical examiner is like, eh, we don't think he could have stabbed himself in the back. And the evidence that this was actually a homicide keeps growing from here in the investigation. Remember that big sofa-like chair that Melissa slept on in her office that night? Well, when police are still combing the crime scene, they find blood drops leading to that chair.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Also kommen sie zurück auf die Station mit Plänen, um eine Suche-Warnung zu erhalten. Und sie bekommen eine. Und sie gehen zurück nach Hause am nächsten Nachmittag. Wenn sie da sind, sind sie überrascht, dass Lena...
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And Bill, this is her mom, and Bill, the American man that they moved to America with, have just been parked outside of Mike's house watching and waiting for any signs of him or their daughter. Which honestly, same.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And I mean, what else are you going to do? Right. But the police get inside Michaels house and they expect to find something, anything to tell where Diana is, what might have happened to her. But there's nothing. There's not even any belongings of Diana's to show that she might have spent the night there.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
That's when they realized that the only way they're probably going to find Diana, considering that Michael told Lena that she was with him during the time that she was missing, they realized they need to find Michael. And the more they look into him, His behavior in the hours before he met up with Diana that night was pretty alarming, to say the least.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So just 12 hours before Mike had Diana meet him at the Whatta Tavern bar, he was actually spotted on surveillance footage at his own PNC bank withdrawing money from an ATM. We're not talking a couple hundred bucks. He took out $2,500 in cash. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Hey, I'm actually not feeling well, so I'm going to be taking the next few days off. So this is 12 hours before he even meets her at the bar. He takes $2,500 out and then tells his coworker, I'm going to be sick for the next few days. But then he tells another coworker, I'm taking the next few days off to go to a wedding. So he's now told two different co-workers two different stories.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Es fühlte sich wie in einem ganzen Episode wie in einem Film an.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
However, on the morning of the 21st, it appears Mike was still at his house or at least stopped by to gather some things before the police would arrive that day. Because a neighbor said they saw someone with an odd, freaked-out demeanor walking around behind Mike's building. And afterwards noticed the man get into and drive away in a black Nissan Altima
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Und weißt du, wer einen schwarzen Nissan Altima führte? Diana.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Also denken sie, okay, also bevor wir da hergekommen sind, war Michael da und seine Nachbarn sahen ihn weirisch antreten und dann in Dianas Auto fahren, wenn Diana nirgendwo gefunden werden kann.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Right. And then around 7 a.m. shortly after that witness sighting, Mike's spotted on surveillance footage at a Walmart in Palm Bay. It's about 45 minutes away. There he actually buys a Samsung flip phone and a prepaid Verizon card. He's then spotted on parking lot footage going back to the car, grabbing a plastic bag, trying to throw something in the dumpster by Walmart, which is locked.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So he puts it back in the car and drives away. All of this is shady enough. I mean, if this guy knows his girlfriend is missing, he should be helping her parents look for her. But it gets a lot more suspicious when police look into Mike Jones' background and find he has a criminal record. So before living in Vero Beach, Mike lived in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
This was back in 2012, so only like two years prior. And there he was charged with, get this, aggravated stalking after he threatened to kill an ex-girlfriend so police look mike up and they realize he's already been charged for wanting to harm an ex-girlfriend my kids are gonna hate me because i'm gonna do a background check on every single person they ever date as you should yep
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So for this crime, Mike pleaded no contest and was only given five years probation. By the time of sentencing though, he was living in Vero Beach and he was told if he left the Vero Beach area without getting permission from his probation officer, he could be placed under arrest. So when detectives learn all this, they decide to call this probation office because Mike is nowhere to be found.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And it seems he's gotten the heck out of Vero Beach by this point. And the probation officer is like, no, he definitely didn't get permission from me to leave. So now police have cause to arrest Mike the second they find him, if they can find him. Lena und Bill sind total überrascht von der News, dass Mike einen kriminellen Rekord hat.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Meiner Meinung nach hatten sie keine Ahnung, dass Mike in irgendeinem Sinne besitzt oder verletzt war. Definitiv nicht nach ihrer Tochter. Aber nach einigen von Diana's Freunden, hat Mike die gleichen Dinge in seiner Beziehung zu ihr gemacht. Der größte Notfall war am April 30, 2014. Das ist nur zwei Monate vor der Missing-Sendung von Diana.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Early that morning, a little before 1 a.m., Mike Jones' neighbor made a call to 911. And he's like, hey, yeah, I think I have a domestic disturbance call for you. My next door neighbor and his girlfriend have been screaming at each other for an hour. Then he says, and this is a direct quote, it sounds like he's trying to dominate the crap out of her.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Now the police show up at the house minutes later. And when they knock on the door, Mike answers. At first he's like, I was asleep. He pretends that he was sleeping and he doesn't know what the neighbor's referring to. And then they're like, well, the neighbor didn't make it up. And he's like, okay, yeah, me and Diana, we were just having rough sex. So they asked to speak with her.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
She comes to the door in her pajamas and police say, well, she looks frustrated with the situation. She doesn't appear to have any marks on her. Right before the officers are about to leave, Diana says, Wait, please don't go. I want to get my things and I don't want to do it alone.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So one of the officers says she practically begs them to stay with her and let her get out of the house safely, which they definitely find alarming.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But they help her out once again outside of the house. They ask her, are you sure you're okay that nothing has happened? They examine her again for cuts and bruises and she's like, I'm fine. I just want to go home. So they let her leave. Wow. Okay. Wow. Und Chelsea sieht das als eine große rote Flagge, weil Diana nie im Publikum in ihren Pajamas sein würde, ohne dass das eine Art Anerkennung war.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Also rutscht Chelsea sie in den Kühlschrank. Und dann öffnet Diana sich zu ihrem Freund, über das, was früher tatsächlich passiert ist. Sie sagt, dass sie in einen Argument eingegangen sind. Mike hat sie gedrückt, er hat sie auf den Topf genommen. Er hat sie angefangen zu zocken, während er über und über sagte, ich werde dich verdammt töten. Oje, oje.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Und Chelsea sieht rote Marken über Diana's Nacken. Also ist es klar, dass die Offiziere das verpasst haben oder es nicht sehr hart sah. Sie sagt Diana, wir müssen Bilder davon nehmen. Also nimmt Chelsea Bilder von diesen Marken für Beweise. Chelsea ist so smart. Chelsea ist so smart.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Was in solchen Fällen nicht ungewöhnlich ist, obwohl das der Zeitpunkt ist, dass sie aus dem Haus und zurück mit ihren Eltern geht. Also erinnert ihr euch, wie ich es euch vorhin gesagt habe, dass sie sich getrennt haben und sie niemandem wirklich gesagt hat, warum Chelsea wusste, warum. Und es war, weil er mit ihr physisch gewaltig war und sie gesagt hat, dass er sie töten wird.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Aber wie wir wissen, hat Diana und Mike weiter darüber geredet für die nächsten mehrere Monate, bis an der Nacht im Juni, als sie sich treffen und Diana nie wieder gesehen wurde. Ja. Das ist ein klarer Zeichen eines Verbrechens. Die Polizei hat keine Zweifel mehr, dass Mike der Grund für Dianas Verbrechung ist.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Und so viel sie ihren Eltern bringen wollen, sieht es nicht gut aus, jetzt dass sie die Wahrheit über Mikes Hintergrund wissen. So the pressure is on. They need to find Mike Jones. It has now been three days since Diana was last seen and they know they need to step it up.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So on the afternoon of June 22nd, they begin analyzing Mike and Diana's cell phone data to see what towers her phone last pinged. And they find that Mike made one of his most recent calls near Fort Pierce, Florida. This is about 25 minutes from Vero Beach. So, Vero Beach Police contact the officers there and tell them to be on the lookout for either Diana's black Nissan or Mike's gold Honda.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And just a few hours later, they get a call back. Mike's car has been spotted in the parking lot of a Hampton Inn Hotel. So officers rush over there to speak with the front desk. They find Mike Jones had checked in about 24 hours after Diana disappeared. They also learned he had paid in cash for a two-night stay.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And he told the front desk not to tell anyone he was there and not to transfer any calls to his room.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So police are like, let's see your cameras. They look at the surveillance footage and see that Mike checked in alone. Diana is not with him, which is not a good sign. So the front desk gives the police a key card, offer up his room number and basically are like, yeah, go do whatever you need to do. I don't know.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So, police go up, they go up to his floor, they get up to his door of his hotel room, and they just use the keycard and let themselves in. And there he is. He's sitting on the bed, talking on his burner phone that he was seen on surveillance buying to someone. Which by the way, he has this burner phone, but he's also still using his regular phone too, because that's how they found him there.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Which means Mike's really not the smartest criminal. But when they berate him with questions about Diana, Mike refuses to offer up any information. Here's the thing though, they have Mike backed into a corner. They say to him, look, you can answer our questions or we can place you under arrest, since you violated your parole.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But Mike still doesn't budge, which means he's placed in handcuffs and taken down to the station for booking. However, the question remains, where is Diana?
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
With Mike unwilling to talk, officers have to sort of retrace his steps on their own. They figure tracking his cell phone worked once, let's do it again. And what they find is, the morning after he was last seen with Diana, remember how he went to Walmart to buy that burner phone and then he was seen in the parking lot getting into Diana's car and driving away?
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Well, apparently after that little trip, his phone pinged another tower around Melbourne, almost an hour north of Vero Beach. So again, police call the officers at that precinct and tell them we're searching for a black Nissan. This is Diana's car. And again, it works. Around 4.30 a.m.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
that night, after arresting Mike Jones, they find Diana's car sitting in a Publix grocery store parking lot abandoned. But when they open the vehicle, they're searching it, they pop the trunk, see what they can find.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Okay. Okay. Which means that Diana's missing person case is now officially a homicide. And the autopsy indicated that whatever happened to Diana was not an accident. She had multiple defensive wounds, as well as red marks around her knees and ankles that told detectives she had likely been tied up. She'd suffered blunt force trauma to the head and her cause of death was strangulation.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Oh, and before we get into the episode, just a reminder that I have a Twitch account where I live stream. I do get ready with me. Sometimes I'll play games. It just kind of depends. But if you want to come hang out with me and the community over there, it's so fun. It's just randomly throughout the day. But yeah, I live stream over there sometimes.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Ich denke nur, dass... Ich meine, ich kenne die Statistiken darüber, aber ich kenne es nicht.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Eigentlich ist es einer der stärksten Trigger für einen Tod, weil sie dich nicht verlassen wollen.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So they're like, okay, we need to prove that if he drove her here with her body in the trunk and left it here, we need to prove that he then somehow got home. Because how did he get home from here? So they begin calling taxi companies around the area, seeing if anyone picked up a guy fitting Mike's description from that Publix parking lot. And they get lucky again.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
They find one taxi driver who says he picked up a guy in the exact same clothes Mike was seen wearing in surveillance footage that day. During that nearly hour ride back to Vero Beach, the cab driver said he was trying to chat with Mike, asking him what brought him there. Mike told him he and his friend had gotten into a fight and she had left him.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But the real kicker was, when they presented the cab driver with a lineup of suspects, they were like, can you try to identify him? He picks Mike out right away. So now they have a witness, a strong witness, who's going to say, I drove Mike from that Publix place Back to Vero Beach. And he told me in the car that he'd gotten in a fight with a friend and she had left him.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But nothing beats physical DNA evidence in court. And when police do a search of Mike's home and garage, they find a few small drops of blood. When they test it, they prove it's Diana's DNA. So on June 25th, 2014, Mike Jones is charged with first degree murder for killing Diana. And his plan is to maintain his innocence through and through.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But as we know, the trial will bring forth a bunch of other surprises. As the prosecution begins digging into Mike's background to build out a case against him for trial, they learn this guy wasn't just abusive to the people in his life, he also made up many elaborate lies to rope people in and keep them close.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Remember, Mike had a lot of really interesting facts about himself that he shared with people. That his brother-in-law was country singer Jason Aldean, that he was adopted by the Reagans, and that he played minor league baseball, that he had a penthouse in Fort Lauderdale, he had a Porsche that he only drove on the weekends. Mike.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Eigentlich wäre dieser Job einer der einzigen echten Dinge in Mikes Leben gewesen. Nun, das und seine wirklich präzise akademische Karriere, weil es scheint, dass Mike wirklich einen Master und einen Gesetzesberuf bekommen hat. Aber wenn es um seine soziale Leben und viele andere persönliche Details ging, sahen sie alle nur eine Lüge aus.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
The prosecution was ready to tell the jury this so they knew they could not trust Mike. So Mike Jones' trial began in October of 2019 and the prosecution painted a solid picture of what they're pretty sure happened that night. They think Mike, who had always tried to control the narrative and control his sexual partners, snapped after Diana told him she no longer wanted to be with him.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
They think she called it off later that night when they got back to his place and Mike refused to accept it, including the part where she told him she had plans to move out west to California. Mike's defense team argued, there was so much more to the story and that the jury should have a little bit of sympathy for him because of two very traumatic things that had happened to Mike.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Well, majority of the time Garrett's on with me as well. So yeah, come hang out. That should also be linked below. Okay, so when it comes to a courtroom defense... We've heard a lot of pretty wild things on this show, whether that's self-defense, insanity pleas, blaming someone else entirely. You would think that we've heard pretty much any excuse there is for a defense in court.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Prior abuse and a traumatic brain injury. This is where the defense comes in. Mike's defense claimed that Mike himself was a victim of abuse growing up and that it had even pushed him into doing the same. Mike's uncle, Teddy Jones, even took the stand to support this. So Teddy says he remembers there's an incident when Mike was in his early 20s.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Teddy arrives at the house to find Michael's father holding him up against a wall by his throat. Teddy screamed at Mike's father to let him go and eventually took Mike home with him because he was scared for his nephew's life. Now, I know hurt people hurt people. Is that an excuse for murder? Never. No. But the defense said that prior abuse wasn't the only factor.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Michael was an avid motocross rider and sustained so many injuries over the years that he suffered from CTE.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Aber hier ist die Sache, es gibt keine medizinischen Rekorde, die jemals als Beweise dargestellt wurden, dass Michael wieder Kopfschmerzen hatte, dass er mit ihnen diagnostiziert wurde, aber die Verwaltung hatte einen exzellenten Rebuttal für all das.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Wenn der Plan war, zu argumentieren, dass Michael Jones eine Art kognitiver Schwierigkeit hatte, die ihn mit seiner Freundin in das Leben genommen hat, dann hätte diese gleiche kognitiven Schwierigkeiten es für ihn schwierig gemacht, seinen Job zu machen, um all diese Erlebnisse zu bekommen, die er erhielt, durch einen so großartigen Job.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
so they tell the jury this is just another elaborate lie like this is not even real he was trying to fool the jury using the same tactics he had used to fool his friends his colleagues and his girlfriends they shouldn't fall for it turns out they didn't After deliberating for only 45 minutes, the jury was back with a verdict. Michael Jones was guilty of first degree murder, meaning premeditation.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And with that, the jury also had the option of recommending the death penalty. However, they chose to show Mike some mercy. He got a life sentence instead. Diana's mother, Lena, had a lot to say about Michaels punishment, though, and she put it in words that I think any mother or loved one could relate to. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Before I wrap this up, I want you to know, if you or someone you know is a victim of domestic abuse, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. And that is the case of Diana Duve.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Und du kannst es rausnehmen, aber du kannst es nicht rausnehmen auf Skathe. Oh, nein, nein, nein. Sprich über den emotionalen, mentalen Trauma. Und du könntest auch physischen Trauma haben. Ich meine, es ist einfach, es ist eine Sache, die immer mehr passiert. Es ist einfach verrückt. Ich denke,
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Es ist einfach eine Linie, die du drücken musst, die du nicht überschreiten wirst.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
This is my biggest argument of why we should teach kids from a young age that physical harm is not the option, which is, in my opinion, why we shouldn't spank children. Because those children can't grow up and then spank people. You're teaching them that this is how you punish people. You're teaching them that physical violence is a punishment.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Aber wenn du ein Alter bist, kannst du jemanden nicht physisch verurteilen. Es ist literally illegal. Und so ist es so, dass irgendein typischer physischer Gewalt einfach nicht akzeptabel ist. Ja. Okay, ihr Leute, das ist unser Fall für heute. Und wir sehen uns nächstes Mal mit einem anderen. Ich liebe es.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Heute's case though, I think might actually be a first on this show as far as the defense goes. And Garrett's going to know about this, but if you follow football at all, then you've probably heard this term before. Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Yes, it is a disease that is linked to repeated head trauma. And it can cause a lot of really complicated issues. I would say football is the thing that really...
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
brought this to the surface of people recognizing this disease but it also can happen in boxing mma fighting honestly any contact sport where there is repeated hitting to the head cte can be a common disease there's actually if you want like a good summary on kind of what it is there's a good movie on it with will smith i forget what it's called um but it kind of explains the whole process of when everything was was going down
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So basically CTE, a recognized disease, can cause mood swings, problems with memory and rationalization, irritability. Now, like I said, while football isn't the only sport that CTEs are seen in, it is definitely brought the most attention to the condition, which is what Garrett's talking about. Yet, despite how well known it is,
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Very little is still understood about the disease itself because it is very case to case. And that's even today, which may be why the perpetrator in today's case thought it would make for a pretty convincing defense. But the question is, can CTEs really explain away a history of violent abuse and murder?
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So today I want to introduce you to a 26 year old woman named Diana Duvet. Now, Diana lives in Vero Beach, Florida, on the eastern coast of the state. But she's not originally from America. She was actually born in a small little country in Eastern Europe called Moldova, nestled between Romania and Ukraine. Now Diana moved to Vero Beach, Florida, with her mom, Lena, when she was around 13.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
After her mom met and fell in love with an American man named Bill, and then they all go to Florida together.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So for the teenage Diana, that move must have felt like moving to an entirely different planet. She didn't even speak a word of English. Yet she adapted fast, impressively fast. Two months after starting her new school, Diana was enrolling in English speaking classes. And a few years later, those who knew her said you couldn't even tell that English wasn't her first language.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
By the time she graduated high school, she had plenty of friends and a bright future ahead of her in America. Because Diana was dedicated to her dream of one day becoming a nurse. So she graduates. She moves away to Gainesville, Florida in 2007 to begin her nursing degree. But after she graduated, Diana was eager to return home and actually be close to her mother again.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So she graduates nursing school, she moves back home and she gets a job at Sebastian Medical Center. It's just a half hour away from home. But Diana was already dreaming of what the next chapter would bring in her life. She was working on obtaining her nursing license in the state of California with hopes of one day moving west, so from Florida to California.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But in 2013, Diana met someone at a local bar who would complicate that dream that she had. Es war ein Mann namens Mike Jones. Mike war etwas älter als Diana, etwa sechs Jahre alt. Aber das könnte es sein, was Diana inbring. Mike war Geldmanager bei einem lokalen PNC-Bank-Branche. Das bedeutet, er handelte riesige Multimillionen-Dollar-Aktien für sehr reiche Menschen.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Und er war einer der Top-Arbeiter dieser Branche. Er brachte also viele tolle Klienten ein. Er hat gesagt, er wusste, dass er ein paar verschiedene Celebriten kennen, die er in den Bank bringen konnte, dass seine Schwester mit dem Country-Singer Jason Aldean verheiratet war und dass er selbst von Ronald Regans Sohn als Kind adoptiert wurde. Aufgrund dessen hat Mike exzellente Erfahrungen erhalten.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Hey alle, willkommen zurück auf dem Podcast. Das ist Mörder mit meinem Mann. Ich bin Peyton Morland.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
performance reviews even the clients raved about him it certainly helped that he had a master's degree and a law degree plus he seemed to have a really great reputation around vero beach not only did he dress to impress michael was always attending charity events trying to give back to his community friends of his used words like genius trustworthy ambitious
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So on paper, Michael Jones seemed like a really stand up guy. He seems to be the social butterfly, which really helps him in his career. But Diana wasn't completely sold on Michael, not right away at least. Even after what seemed like a few dates, Diana told a friend she still wasn't sure. She wasn't head over heels for him yet. But she'd continue to give him a chance.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And Michael made sure she did. He charmed Diana every chance he got. He charmed her parents too. When he met them, he was dressed to the nines. He was well spoken. He was polite. He presented himself as everything you would ever want in a partner for your daughter. And as a result, Diana started to fall for Mike.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Just a few months after they started dating, she told her parents that she was planning to move in with Mike. And they had no objections. The two seemed happy. They seemed in love. And they were definitely working towards a bright future together. A few months Freunde sagten, dass sie nach dem Gespräch wirklich unabhängig waren.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Arm in Arm ständig, aber nicht in einer Weise, die völlig gesund fühlte. Laut Dianas Freund Chelsea, sie sagte, es fühlte sich fast so an, als wären sie immer zusammen, in einer kontrollierenden Weise. Wie der Grund, warum sie immer zusammen sind, ist, weil Mike Diana nicht aus seiner Sicht lassen würde.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
When Chelsea met with Diana for lunch one day, just the two of them, Diana sort of hinted that she might be in trouble for going to lunch with her without him. But on April 30th, 2014, that issue almost seemed like it was going to work itself out because Diana decided to break it off with Mike and move back in with her parents. She didn't tell her mother why they had broken up.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But her mother didn't pry. Lena, her mother, did notice, however, that it didn't really seem completely over yet. Mike was still texting Diana, constantly trying to get her back. And they sort of remained in that limbo for the next few months of being on again, off again, seeing each other, but not actually dating. Sometimes trying to make it work, other times saying, nope, we're done.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But Diana didn't move back in with Mike. She stayed living with her mother and stepfather until June of 2014.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
and on the night of the 19th 2014 she went out with a few friends hoping to take her mind off of the mike situation just for a little while of course that's easier said than done diana's friends noticed she was glued to her phone all evening barely able to hold a conversation with the rest of the group so they're all out they're hanging out diana's supposed to be broken up with mike but she won't get off her phone and you know we've all
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
entweder da gewesen oder mit einem Freund gewesen, der in diesem Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf-und-Auf
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So eventually Diana left the night earlier than planned, telling her friends that she was actually going to go meet up with Mike and just talk. So Diana got in her car and made the few minutes drive over to a bar called What a Tavern in Vero Beach. Now surveillance footage shows her taking a seat next to Mike at the bar sometime before midnight. She leaves her friends. She's now at a bar with Mike.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Andere Leute an der Bar sagten, dass es für den meisten Teil so aussah, als ob das Paar ehrlich gesagt eine schöne Zeit hatte. Sie sprachen, sie lachen. Doch es gab einen Punkt in der Nacht, wo Diana visuell verärgert wurde und eigentlich weinen konnte.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
I mean, if I noticed a girl crying at a restaurant, I would probably remember it. By the time police came and talked to me and said, you were at this place at the same time as this couple. Did you notice anything? And if I had seen her crying, I would have remembered that.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
But I'm not gonna lie, eyewitness accounts are like the most unstable accounts there are.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
So, she might be crying, but around 1.15 a.m., Diana and Mike were actually seen on the same surveillance footage of the bar leaving the bar. Now, Mike's place, presumably the one that he used to share with Diana, so where she had moved in with him, was just four miles from that bar. And Diana texted her mother around 1.45 a.m. that night saying she wasn't going to be coming home.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
She sends that message in Russian. That is their native language. Now, Lena doesn't see that text until she wakes up the next morning for work because it came in at 1.45 a.m. But to her, this isn't unusual. Diana has been known to just go spend random nights at Mike's house. She just assumes, okay, that's where she is.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Plus, because it's written in Russian, Lena knows Diana was obviously the person who sent it, right? But just to be sure, she messages her back that morning and says, where are you?
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
though the hours start ticking by and there's no response from diana so by the time the entire day has gone by lena has come and gone from work and the clock strikes 11 30 p.m and there is still no word from her daughter lena is past worried so what does she do she decides to call mike remember she's met mike he's been introduced to the family and the family liked him so she calls mike
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And Mike is cool as a cucumber. He's like, oh, yeah, you know, Lena's just here with me. Don't worry. She can't get to the phone. She's sleeping. But I'll have her call you back.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Diana ruft nicht an, also versucht Lena es wieder. Sie sagt, Mike genug, wach sie auf. Lass mich mit ihr sprechen. Sie hat mich nie angerufen. Lass mich mit ihr sprechen. Und sie ist mit einer anderen Entschuldigung getroffen. Er sagt, oh, na gut, ich bin eigentlich nicht mehr zu Hause. Sie ist wieder bei mir. Ich wache sie auf und habe sie dich anrufen, sobald ich da bin.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Das wird ungefähr 30 Minuten. Wieder, es gibt keinen Anruf. So, Lena und ihr Mann Bill sind bei diesem Punkt in Angst und Angst, weshalb sie entscheiden, wir fahren einfach nach Mikes Haus und schlagen auf die Tür.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Wenn sie da sind, gibt es keine Diana. Es gibt auch keinen Mike. Keiner von ihnen, noch ihre Autos sind im Haus. Gott. So, Lena ist so, das ist es. Ich bin fertig. Ich kümmere mich nicht um. Ich gehe zur Polizei und ich berichte, dass meine Tochter vermisst ist. So it's now Saturday, June 21st, 2014. This is about 36 hours, give or take, since Diana was last seen or heard from, that last message.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
Es heißt Paradise, oder? Ja. Es ist gut. Ich würde sagen, Episode 7 ist einer der besten Episoden, der je auf TV gedreht wurde.
Murder With My Husband
260. What Happened To Diana Duve?
And detectives are knocking on Michael Jones's door to find he is still not home and there is still no sign of Diana. So her mom, Lena, goes to police, is like, my daughter is missing. Ihr Freund, ihr Freund, Mike, sagte, sie war da, aber als wir da waren, waren sie nicht da. Also gehen die Detektiven und sie sind noch nicht da.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Präzisionen für Depressionen, Angst und Insomnia.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
This is medicine that Kate never left home for long without. So Tom and Janice called Kate repeatedly through the day to no avail. And by Sunday morning, with still no sign from their daughter Kate, they start to suspect the worst. And they wonder if Kate might have fallen back into her old habits. War es ein Rückfall, über den sie sich beschäftigen mussten?
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Und meistens, in diesen Fällen, die wir beobachten, sind sie fürchtet, dass jemand ihren Verliebten getötet hat. Aber diese Eltern sind fürchtet, dass Kate zurück in ihre alten Wege zurückgehen könnte. Ah, ich verstehe. Und so beginnen sie, Kate's Freunde und andere Familienmitglieder zu rufen. Nur hat niemand sie gesehen. Also rufen sie lokale Krankenhäuser, um zu sehen, ob...
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I think it's time for your 10 seconds.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Kate or any Jane Does have showed up. There's nothing. But they figure, okay, their daughter at this point is 28 years old. Maybe she just met someone and had, you know, kind of spent the night with him or was hanging out with him, gone off with him. Maybe she figured out her visa and she caught a flight to Russia after all.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
They'll give it one more day, see if Kate returns, see if anything changes, but it doesn't. So by Monday, June 15th, they call the Charleston Police Department. By now, Kate's parents also realize she hasn't used any of her credit cards or bank accounts since the night that they last saw her.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Remember, her parents had access to all of her finances, despite the fact she was 28, just as a protection. But that day, after filing a report with the police, they do get a phone call. It's Kate's Bank and they're calling with alarming news. The branch manager says someone came in trying to cash what looked like a forged check from Kate's checkbook.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And how do you top the raccoon story?
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
For 4500 dollars. Only Kate had like barely $100 in that account at the time. So this is not exactly the news you want to hear when your daughter is missing. But at least it might be a clue. Now when Thomas Waring gets a hold of this check, he sees who it was made out to. He's in contact with the bank. He's like, tell me who got the check.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ethan Mack. This is Kate's longtime best friend. And it was written on June 12th. So the day Kate was last seen.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So the the wearings actually take this information to police and they're like, okay, yes, we need a question. Ethan, this girl's missing. Someone tried to forge a check and it is probably Ethan. Now, Ethan seems very willing to cooperate with the police. And he says, yes, he saw Kate on the night she went missing June 12th when she gave him that check.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Er behauptet, er habe ihr letztens eine Menge Geld für ein Stück Jewelry gekauft, das sie wollte, und diese Karte war ihr, die sie ihm zurückzuhalten. Und er hatte keine Ahnung, dass sie nicht genug in ihrem Account hatte, um es zu schließen, oder er hätte es nicht einmal versucht, es in den ersten Ort zu schließen. So okay, this is possible.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
He also says, after that dinner on Friday, he drove Kate home to her parents' house on the battery and she got out of the car at around 11.45 p.m. And he's like, honestly, I haven't heard from her since. But he's not concerned because he tells police, listen, it's normal for Kate to sort of von Zeit zu Zeit verschwinden und nicht anrufen oder ihn zurücktexten.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Yeah, okay, Tiger King, calm down.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Jetzt lässt Ethan sogar die Polizei auf sein Telefon schauen und sie sehen Textmessagen, die das Verhandeln vermutlich bestätigen. Außerdem, wenn sie fragen, lässt Ethan sie kommen und die Haustür, in der er gerade lebt, suchen, die eine, die er mit seiner Mutter teilt. Und sie finden da auch nichts Interessantes. Ethan verlässt also die Polizistation an diesem Tag, ohne einen Suspekt zu nennen.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
This is where it gets a little weird, because he leaves the police station. He's not really a suspect. He does, however, after this, call the Warrings with an earful. He leaves them a voicemail on their landline. And he's not happy with Kate's parents. Er sagt ihnen, all I ever did was look out for Kate. Stop wasting your time and find out what really happened to her.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
He seems genuinely concerned about Kate. But he's also like, why did you not just talk to me about the check? Why did you go to police about the check? So police at this point move on to a new witness. So in the investigation at this point, police are like, we got to talk to more people. We got to figure out what's going on in Kate's life.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So they talked to people who might know her, like Kate's ex-boyfriend, a guy named Howard Gatch. Howard and Kate had met at the gym she went to. He was a martial arts trainer, but was also in the middle of a pretty ugly divorce when he and Kate started dating. Now, on the day she went missing, Kate actually saw Howard. Since she didn't have a license, he gave her a ride to her therapist's office.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Sie seemed in really good spirits, according to Howard, even when he saw her out and about, about an hour and a half later at the gym. However, there was apparently an altercation that day because Howard's ex-wife was also at the gym that afternoon and some said that she and Kate had exchanged words at the gym.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Whatever was said, though, it wasn't enough to ruin Kate's entire day, because we know she still went out to dinner with Ethan and Heather later. Apparently, at 10.15 p.m. that night, she even called Howard, and I'm not sure what they spoke about, but he said that wasn't the last time they chatted that night.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
According to Howard, at around 12.30 a.m., they spoke one final time, during which Kate tells Howard, her ex-boyfriend, that she's still hanging out with Ethan and Heather. Now that's about 45 minutes after Ethan claims that he had dropped Kate off at her home. So when police learn this, they're like, there's a discrepancy in the timeline. There's something fishy going on.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Plus, Howard sagt den Polizisten, als er mit Kate gesprochen hat, sie klingelte ein bisschen. Und er sagte, dass sie vorsichtig war mit Heather. Howard hatte Heather vorher getroffen, aber es gab etwas, das Heather Camp nicht so gut gefühlt hatte. And when he told Kate this, she laughed off his concerns. But later that night, he ends up getting a strange text from Kate.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
She said she was heading to Greenville to, quote, pick up some lovey. Now, whether that was drugs or something else, Howard didn't know. But by the time he inquired about it the following day, Kate was missing. She never responded. Police received another interesting tip, though, around this time. Am 12.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Juni, der letzte Tag, an dem Kate gesehen wurde, hat sie auch ihren Freund Jason Luck genannt und eine Stimme veröffentlicht. In dieser Botschaft rante Kate, dass jemand ihre Identität verloren hatte und sie versuchten, Kreditkarten auszunehmen und ihren Namen. Now this sort of lines up with what Kate had said to her father that same day.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I guess this was right before she left for CVS and then dinner. She told her dad that she may have, quote, unintentionally gotten herself in trouble. And when Thomas pried further, Kate wouldn't offer up any more details other than that, but her dad is thinking it was probably this, that someone had stolen her identity. Now here's the thing.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Police have all of this information, but they don't move forward on any of it for weeks. trotz dessen, wie prominent die Wehrungen in Charleston sind, trotz dessen, dass sie eine Art Legacy-Familie sind, ist Kate's Case ehrlich gesagt kein Steam. Interessant. In Wahrheit ist es das Gegenteil. Es steigt ein wenig aus. Die Polizei hat all diese seltsamen Angänge, die sie schauen könnte.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Dies ist bescheuert, dies ist bescheuert. Kate kennt viele Leute. Es gab viele seltsame Dinge am letzten Tag, als sie gesehen wurde, aber sie tun nichts. And the Warrings aren't gonna just sit around and wait for the Charleston PD to get some miraculous tip. So they decide to take their daughter's case into their own hands.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Two months after Kate goes missing, the Warrings hire their own star team of investigators to figure out where their daughter went and what may have happened to her.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ich werde immer wieder verletzt.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So the wearings start with Andrew Savage. It's a local attorney who has an incredible group of people who can investigate the crime even when police aren't. And that includes former police officers James Randolph, Bill Capps and Bobby Minter. Bobby war dieser genannte menschliche Bluthund, der exzellent ist, einen Weg zu folgen.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Und Detective Bill war dieser Techniker, der fast alles auf der Internetseite finden konnte. Und Detective James war großartig, außerhalb der Box zu denken, Dinge aufzumachen und zu Worten zu sprechen. Einer der ersten Menschen, zu denen dieses Team von drei spricht, ist Kates Therapeut. Sie sehen, hey, kannst du uns etwas erzählen? War da etwas seltsames in Kates Leben?
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Kannst du uns etwas erzählen? Und was sie lernen, ist, Kate hatte Probleme mit ihrem alten Freund Ethan, seitdem sie ihn zu Heather eingeladen hat. Okay. But the investigators learned something else the police didn't know. And that's that Ethan had lied to them about where he lived at the time of the disappearance. He wasn't actually living with his mother.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
He had recently gotten his own place with Heather Camp, his girlfriend, on James Island.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Right, and it's like you told the police, oh yeah, I'm staying with my mom, but he's actually living with his girlfriend.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So as this team of investigators learn, Ethan wasn't the only one keeping secrets in Kate's life. Heather, her best friend she had met on the train that was dating Ethan, had plenty of her own.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
In fact, she had been lying to Kate practically since the moment she met her back on that train.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So apparently, Howard and Kate's mother Janice were right about Heather. Remember, Howard's her ex-boyfriend. Something was definitely off with this 31-year-old woman. Because not only did she not have a license to practice medicine, like she had said, she had an extensive criminal record for fraud. This takes one background, one background search, by the way. And get this. Holy crap.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
But the lies didn't stop with Heather's fake medical career that she had imagined. Despite what she told Kate and Ethan, she had been married before. And those stories about her children dying from leukemia and in a car accident, those were lies too. As far as any of the sources suggest, Heather's four children, so she had four, And they were all alive and well.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
She just kind of run to Charleston and started a new life. Apparently, the fact that she was pregnant with Ethan's child at this time was also a lie. And this was one that Ethan was not privy to. In fact, I don't think Ethan knew any of this about the girlfriend he was living with.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ethan hat keine Ahnung.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Weil Menschen nicht manipulierbar sind.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ich weiß es nicht. Sie lügen einfach. Sie halten nur die Lügen los. Und die Lügen los.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So Ethan doesn't know this, but literally these private investigators that the Warrings had hired learned this immediately. And that's when they realized, okay, Heather is not who she says she is. Kate is missing and we need to keep a closer eye on this. Ich meine, stell dir vor, dass die Waringe diesen Untersuchern sagt, dass ihre beiden Kinder gestorben sind und sie Medizin praktiziert.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Und es ist alles live. Sie ist krank, bla bla bla. Und sie haben vier Kinder und sie sind live und sie hat nie Medizin praktiziert. Like, it's just, it would be gut-wrenching. So after finding Heather and Ethan's new apartment, Detective Bobby convinces their landlord to help them out. He puts a little camera in the landlord's window, which points directly to Ethan and Heather's place.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
His own little ring doorbell, if you will. And they also put a tracker on Ethan's car so they know where he is pretty much every second of the day. But what they find is, while Ethan's away, you know, at work or wherever he's going during the day, Heather at home is actually sneaking over to the neighbor's house and having an affair with this 31 year old guy named Terry Williams.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So the investigators have to consider, could this person, Terry, be involved in some way as well? Wow. Okay. Wow. Okay. I'm kind of doing you a favor here. So like if I need anything from you, Mr. Landlord, please help me out. Please help me out. And after they grease his palms and pay the rent, they ask the landlord, hey, do you have anything in writing from the couple?
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
We want to see if the handwriting matches up with that forged check Ethan was trying to cash. Did it come from our daughter? Did it come from them? And sure enough, the landlord hands over some IOUs that were written by the couple. And after turning that in the forged check over to a handwriting analyst, they say it's definitely a match. The check was written by Heather.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
There was no doubt about it. So now investigators are thinking, okay, if they have Kate's checkbook and she's missing, Was anderes sind sie mit involviert? Sie müssen ihren Spiel aufsteigen. Und sie fragen den Landleute, hey, kannst du dir sagen, dass wir die Paar brauchen, um Bugs in ihren Ort zu holen? Holen sie sie für einen Tag, während wir rein gehen und einfach schauen.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Und der Landleute ist so, ja, geh' in mein Haus, das ich besitze, und ich rentiere es diesen Leuten. Und du kannst... Ist das legal? Keine Ahnung. Aber vielleicht, weil es der Landleute's legalen Ort ist, kann er die Möglichkeit geben, die Haus zu suchen?
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I mean, you have to think about it, if it's like a hotel, you could have permission to search the room.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I'm going to say if it was illegal, they probably wouldn't have done it. They're retired police.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
To hand over to the police.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Okay. So when the team gets into Ethan and Heather's apartment, they don't find any signs of Kate, but they do use this opportunity to go speak with the neighbor. Mr. Terry Williams. No way, Heather is right there. Us. So that's when the investigators look at each other and they're like, Ethan's definitely involved and Ethan and Heather did something to Kate.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
They now know that police are on to them. Well, police, that's the private detectives. But that doesn't stop them from paying Terry another visit. And since he could really use that cash, he gives them something in return. And it's an iPod, one that Heather gifted him days after Kate disappeared.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
It was the same iPod Kate was seen using at the gym the day she vanished. To be sure it's Kate's, investigators pull the serial number off of it and confirm it was one that she purchased herself. It is Kate's iPod.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I actually just thought about something. I think if you've been listening to Murder With My Husband since the beginning, you probably know the lore that Garrett doesn't cry, that I had never seen him cry.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So with all of this information, they decide now to go to the Charleston police and they're like, hey, we've been working on this case, you haven't been, and here's all the evidence we've collected.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Maybe not. Maybe she just was like, Terry, the neighbor came over. You know what I mean? Like sources obviously aren't saying what exactly was said, but something's going on there.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So as this is going on, as the private detectives are going to Charleston police, Heather Camp is trying to get ahead of the accusations. So she calls the Charleston police too. So at the same time, Charleston police are hearing from the private investigators and from suspect number one, Heather. She's like, I have a confession to make, but not to murder.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Heather admits, okay, I was the one who forged the check. Und innerhalb von einigen Tagen sind sie und Ethan verabschiedet für Verbrechen und Verabschiedung von Gerechtigkeit. Aber nichts zu Kate's Verabschiedung. Ja. Jedoch. Dinge beginnen sich zu verbrechen, wenn Heather für ihr Bond-Gericht im Oktober 2009 aufsteht.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Denn jetzt, dass sie sich von Ethan separiert hat, mit keinem Weg, ihn zu kontaktieren, beginnt sie, sich überrascht zu werden. Wird er sprechen? Soll sie sprechen, bevor er spricht? That's when Heather goes to one of the members of the Waring's investigation team and says, Look, I had nothing to do with Kate's murder, but I know where her body is buried.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
If I give you directions to her, can you help me with these charges? Next thing you know, Heather is giving them very precise directions to this spot on Wadmalaw Island, just south of Charleston. And that afternoon, the team follows her instructions down to the very tree where Heather told them to look, and they find nothing. So with the sun starting to set, they promise to return tomorrow.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
This time, they follow a new path. Sure enough, Detective Bobby Minter, the human bloodhound, spots something this time. After only six minutes of searching the area, they find Kate Waring's remains, right where Heather said they'd be. Nun sind die Bewerber auf 9-1-1 eingeschaltet, weil sie nicht eigentlich Polizisten sind. Aber hier ist es so schockierend.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Wenn die Polizei herkommt, separieren sie die Detektiven, die privaten Bewerber, und legen sie in die Hände der Polizisten. They treat these former officers who just solved their case, found this body, mind you, like criminals. They even seized Bill Capps, one of the investigators' cars, and they brought all of them in for questioning.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I was just about to say. I'm not sure we ever updated the listeners. Garrett now cries. We broke the barrier. We cracked it. It was painful. But he can cry now. I've seen him cry.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And while they are released that night, Bill has to file all of this paperwork to get his car back days later. Bill hat 36 Jahre als Polizist gearbeitet, also kann man sich vorstellen, wie erschrocken er war, dass er herausgefunden hat, wie er behandelt wurde, als sie zur Polizei gingen und sagten, hey, es sind Heather und Ethan und hey, Heather hat uns angerufen und uns gesagt, wo der Körper ist.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Aber es sah immer noch so aus, als ob ihr hart gearbeitet hättet, weil sie nicht nur das, was sie versprochen hatten, sondern sie brachten Kate Waring nach Hause zu ihren Eltern. Sie konnten auch Heather Camp und Ethan Mack mit Mord verurteilt werden. Aber die Frage bleibt immer noch. Why did Heather and Ethan want to kill Kate?
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Well, once the prosecutors start looking into the case, they come up with a pretty good theory for the motive. Remember, Kate had told her father and some friends that she was in trouble and that someone had been trying to extend her credit limit and assume her identity to take her money.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And they freak out. It looked like prosecutors might get to confirm that theory when Heather agreed to plead guilty to voluntary manslaughter, forgery and obstruction of justice charges. All for a shorter sentence. But with that deal, Heather also agreed to testify against her boyfriend Ethan. And this was a day that came in October of 2010 when Ethan's trial began.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
During which Heather took the stand to offer up the full story of what happened to Kate Waring. Or at least her version of those events. This is what she tells the jury. What the fuck? Oh mein Gott. Oh mein... Hier ist eine Sache. Heather changes her story like a lot on the stand.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So we're making progress over here.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And jurors, well, they are like, we can't trust this woman.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Not only is she a con man, someone who would stoop as low to say her children died when they're fully alive and would play doctor on strangers, even taking the blood of a child.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ultimately, the jury wasn't convinced by her story, and so when it came time for Ethan's verdict, the jury found him guilty of obstruction of justice and forgery, but they couldn't reach a consensus on those murder charges, because they're like, we don't know if this is actually what happened, because we don't trust your star witness. Und so ist es ein Misshandel. Wow.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ethan wurde 15 Jahre verhaftet für die Verfolgung und Abstattung von Gerechtigkeitsverfahren. Und anstatt durch die ganze Operation wieder zu gehen, entscheidet er sich für eine Begründung. Im April 2011 wurde ihm eine zusätzliche 25 Jahre für ungewöhnliche Verhandlung gegeben. Und als für die leichtere Begründung, die Heather gehofft hatte, um gegen Ethan zu testen,
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Well, that was actually taken off the table when Heather decided to change her story so many times on the stand. They're like, you were not a reliable witness. You actually lost us this case. So instead, when Heather finally faced a judge in April 2011, she pleaded guilty but mentally ill. She was given a longer sentence than Ethan, 39 years in prison.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
It was a beautiful thing.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Aber es gibt viele Leute, die denken, hätte die Charleston Polizei Kate's Fall mit mehr Urgenz behandelt, würde Heather und Ethan wahrscheinlich für das Leben entfernt werden, so dass sie nicht so hart von einem Satz kommen würden, wie sie es sollten. Okay, ich sehe das.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
It wasn't until weeks later that the Charleston police realized they had destroyed their own crime scene because Ethan and Heather had killed Kate at that apartment. So there really wasn't much evidence at all outside of those confessions and a few forged checks. They had no blood, they had no DNA, they had no weapon. When it came to trial, they had nothing to be like, no, for sure they did it.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
You have to wonder, would Kate have even been found, had it not been for the investigators the Warrings had hired? Like, would this case have just ran cold? Would Heather and Ethan still be walking free? Because if it weren't for the PIs who solved Kate's case... Ethan and Heather could be out there right now, preying on their next kind, compassionate and trusting victim.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And might I say, not every victim has a family who can hire a team of really good private investigators to solve their loved ones' case. And that is the case of Kate Waring.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Kill his own best friend for money.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Also think just Heather being a con man and lying from the start when Kate was nothing but nice to her on that train.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Kate just put all her trust in her friends. I also think it would be extremely frustrating as Kate's parents to know that the police did not take your daughter's disappearance very seriously, didn't look into it very heavily. And then when the case was handed to them on a gold platter paid for by the wearings, they botched the investigation once again by...
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
not closing off the crime scene and actually finding proof i mean i know it's just a number of in prison but at the same time as the family seeking justice when you basically solve this case yourself it's got to be extremely frustrating yeah i agree all right you guys we will see you next time with another episode and i love it and i hate it goodbye
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
You know how you can like adopt a dolphin?
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And you track it and stuff. Garrett wants to do that, but sponsor a cub.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I am repeating myself and dragging on.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Our sources for this episode are Dateline Season 20 Episode 2, Oxygen.com, Live5News.com, ABCNews.com, WizTV.com, PostingCourier.com, CharlestonDaily.com, Sportskeeda.com and Happyscribe.com. Now, murder with my husband listeners. Trust is a tricky thing. I mean, it's one of the first instincts that we rely on in life. We trust that we are supported, that we are loved, that we are safe.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
It's how we're able to meet new people, make new friends and relationships. But trust is a delicate thing. Because as we get older, we learn that not everyone is deserving of our trust. especially if you've had it broken before. But this wasn't something 28-year-old Kate Waring believed in. In 2009, she was on a train when another woman sat down beside her. And she and Kate started chatting.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
In fact, they really hit it off and they would go on to become good friends. Kate even set her up with another one of her close buddies. But what Kate clearly didn't expect was for this woman that she met on the train to go on and betray her trust so badly that it would actually cost her her life. So today we are headed down south to Charleston, South Carolina. Am 5.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Mai 1981 begrüßen Thomas und Janice Waring eine kleine Frau namens Catherine oder Kate, wie ihre Freunde und Familie sie nennen. Kate ist eine ziemlich glückliche Frau, weil sie in reiche Menschen geboren wurde. Sie kommen aus einer guten Anzahl von Generationenrechnern, haben sogar ein Haus auf der Batterie, was eine hochgebetete Straße ist, direkt auf dem Ozean.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So this all goes to say, the Warrings are well known and well connected in Charleston and they have been for decades. And it certainly helps that Thomas, the father, is a prominent lawyer in the city and Kate, being the only girl in her family, sandwiched between an older and younger brother, Hatte ihre Eltern das Essen aus der Palme ihrer Hand.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Sie war die Prinzessin der Familie in einem guten Weg. Sie hat alles, was sie wollte, von Dance-Lessungen zu fancy Birthday-Partys. Aber all das Spoiling hat Kate nicht beeinflusst, wie es mit anderen Kindern. Denn diejenigen, die das Wehren wussten, sagten, dass sie, während sie Geld hatten, immer sehr modistisch waren. Sie haben niemandem ihre Nase auf die Nase gesteckt.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Und diese Kindheit schien Kate durch. Sie war süß und freundlich. Sie würde aus ihrem Weg gehen, um einen Ausgleich zu machen, der willkommen fühlte. Sie war auch intelligent, vielleicht sogar zu ihrem eigenen Zufrieden. Weil Schule Kate nicht genau challenge. Es fiel ihr an. zu dem Punkt, wo es andere Probleme für Kate verursacht hat, als sie in ihre Teenage-Jahre eingegangen ist.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Kate's Mutter Janice bemerkte, dass ihre Tochter eine Tendenz hatte, sich gegen Risiken zu bewegen. Kate fand sich, sich mit Drogen und Trinken zu experimentieren, an einem ziemlich frühen Alter. Und über die Jahre hat sie mit diesen Erkrankungen, wie auch mit Ernährungsuntersuchungen und Depressionen, gespürt. Und als Kate Therapie begann,
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
The family learned what the root cause of these issues had been. Kate had been sexually abused by someone that the family knew. And growing up, she did her best to work through her trauma and her coping mechanisms. And with the help of her parents, she pushed forward. This meant moving in and out of the house with them several times over the years.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Besonders weil wir so lange Strangie-Dangie gehabt haben, wenn in Wahrheit die Menschen, die am gefährlichsten sind, wahrscheinlich in deinem Leben sind. Thomas, ihr Vater, setzte Kate sogar mit einem Bankkonto ein, das er kontrollierte, damit sie ihre Kosten zusammen regulieren konnten. Und dieser Art von Unterstützung von ihren Eltern hat ihr eigentlich wirklich geholfen, ihr Leben zu verändern.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Endlich ging Kate zur Universität in North Carolina, Chapel Hill, oder Chapel Hill, where she joined a sorority. She even took a trip to Greece to participate in an archaeological dig in Crete. But there was one vacation that really changed the course of Kate's life. And I think this is ironic, considering what ended up being your 10 seconds and what you were asking for.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And he's the husband.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
No, but in 2008, Kate and her father went to the Arctic to see polar bears.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And during that trip, a Russian crewman commented on how quickly Kate was picking up his language and he invited her to come visit him in Moscow. So she's in the Arctic, but she meets a Russian crewman and he's like, hey girl, come to Moscow with me, which she did. No way. A few months later.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And it seems there might have been a romance blossoming between the two because after that trip, Kate planned to return the following spring to study Russian further. And this seems outlandish to us, but maybe if you grew up in a family with a lot of wealth and it's like, hey, let's go to the Arctic to see the polar bears and then go back to Russia and hang out.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And now I'm just going to go study there because I can, you know. Seems weird to us, but probably wasn't weird to her. So, sie planen, im Frühjahr zurückzukehren, aber im Mai 2009 ging Kate nach Washington, D.C. um einen Flugzeugflug in Russland zu versuchen, nur sie bemerkte an diesem Punkt, dass es ein Problem mit ihrer Visa gab.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
I think we mentioned it.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Sie würde nach Hause gehen, es ausarbeiten und ihre Reise reschedulieren, wenn das Papier alles abgeschlossen wurde. So Kate's obviously heartbroken. I mean, she'd had this huge plan and literally the day of it doesn't work, but she wasn't going to let it set her back. She hopped the train from D.C.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
back down to Charleston, thinking she'll just take a college course there in the meantime, maybe even start that children's book that she'd been thinking about writing. But as Kate was sitting on that train from D.C. back to home, she was this close to getting out of the country. Okay. I don't know where this is going at all.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
You definitely were.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Vielleicht gibt es sicherlich noch Tränen auf den E-Scootern.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ich glaube, dieser Train...
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
to everywhere is a very common... I know I'm going to sound uneducated, but we in the West... We're about to get slandered.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
So Heather's like, hey, yeah, I understand your visa. There's an issue. I just got my pocketbook stolen. And Heather told Kate she was a doctor, a pediatric surgeon who was actually moving to Charleston to work at the Medical University of South Carolina. And Heather's like, I don't really know anyone in the area. And since we're kind of hitting it off, maybe we should stay in touch.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
But Kate takes it a step further. She offered to help her get on her feet and lend a hand if she needed anything until she got her credit cards back. Heather war sehr dankbar. Die beiden haben nach der Reise geredet. Kate hat Heather zu einem ihrer besten Freunde eingeladen. Ein Mann namens Ethan Mack. Ethan und Kate waren seit einiger Zeit gute Freunde. Kate sagte, Ethan sei ihr großer Bruder.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Er schaute nach ihr. Er schützte sie. Es war nur platonisch zwischen den beiden. Kate glaubte, dass ihr einziger Freund Ethan es mit Heather, der Frau, die sie auf dem Flugzeug kennengelernt hat, mit Heather verabschiedet hätte. Und Kate war richtig. Sie erinnert also ihre neue Freundin Heather zu ihrem alten Freund Ethan und die beiden beginnen zu verheiratet zu sein.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Und die Dinge sahen zwischen ihnen ziemlich stark aus. Selbst als Heather eine schreckliche Tragödie erlebte. Sie sagte, dass ihre junge Tochter zurück in New Jersey in einem Fahrrad accidentiert war. Now, Heather was a mom and she had a young daughter back in New Jersey and she tells her new group of friends that her daughter had passed away in a car accident
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Now, when Kate shares this devastating news about her friend Heather's daughter to her mother, Janice, Janice is suspicious. After interacting with Heather, she's like, she does not seem like a grieving mother in distress. And she also wasn't in a rush to get back to New Jersey to be with family.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
And it got even stranger to Janice when Heather told her a few months later, her other child, her young son, had died of leukemia several years prior. So she's had two kids, one who's died in a tragic accident, one who's died of leukemia, and she doesn't live or hasn't been living with these kids.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
But Kate, her friend, she didn't see any reason not to believe Heather. She seemed to make her best friend Ethan happy. And the three of them practically became inseparable over the next few months. In fact, Kate's parents said that she seemed happier than she'd ever been before. And this was a feeling that persisted seemingly into June of 2009. Interesting.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Ich meine, es ist schwer, weil das ist die Sicht der Eltern von der Freundschaft. Und sie sind so, es sah einfach seltsam aus, aber Kate war nicht besorgt, sie sah glücklich aus. Also am Freitag, Juni 12, war ein Tag wie jeder andere für Kate. That afternoon she went to the gym. She stopped at a CVS pharmacy at around 8 p.m. Where security cameras showed her looking relaxed.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
She was buying wine and snacks while she waited for a prescription to get refilled. And then she met Heather and Ethan for dinner a short distance away at a Japanese steakhouse. And they spent a few hours there drinking, laughing and having a good time. And that's when Ethan and Heather broke the news to Kate.
Murder With My Husband
247 - The Couple That Snapped - The Murder of Kate Waring
Heather war krank. Und sie und Ethan wollten ein Baby haben. Kate war wahrscheinlich für sie ein Statik. Sie war eigentlich eine Tochter, weil diese drei die drei besten Freunde sind. Und um 11.30 Uhr riefen sie eine Nacht. Und Ethan bittet Kate nach Hause zu fahren. Am nächsten Morgen, aber, ging Tom Waring auf Kate in ihrem Bett. Nur Kate war nicht da. Seine Medizin war es, aber.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
When he gets there, he sees 56-year-old Bianca lying at the foot of the bathroom in a pool of her own blood. In the center of her chest is a gunshot wound. And Bianca's pulse has already stopped beating by the time Spencer gets there. Okay. And towering over Bianca's body is Larry, her husband. He's hysterical, frantic, inconsolable.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And he's saying over and over and over again, she committed suicide, my wife committed suicide, what am I going to tell the children? As Spencer takes in the scene that he walks into, he sees Bianca's shotgun. It's partially zipped up in its case, but there's a hole in one end which says the gun actually went off while in its case.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So Spencer and the other guides call the local police and when they get there, Larry says something a little different to them than what he was saying when Spencer first arrived to the crime scene. He's not mentioning suicide anymore. Now he's saying his wife must have actually been packing up her shotgun, didn't realize it was loaded and accidentally fired it through her chest.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Which, I mean, if you're thinking about this, if you have a long gun case and you're putting a gun in, you might actually bend over it to zip it up upright.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Yeah, no, it makes sense, but... I mean, that's obviously not protocol, safety protocol, and she knows a lot about guns.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So he's like, okay, maybe she was packing the gun and it went off. But Spencer is sitting here and he's listening to Larry, who said she committed suicide and is now telling the police, oh, she was packing the gun and it went off. And he is a bit suspicious of Larry because Larry claims he was in the shower when the gun went off. Remember, that's what he's telling everyone.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
But when Spencer got there very quickly after the gun went off, Larry was fully clothed, wearing his shoes and his hair wasn't wet. And Spencer knows, Bianca was the best shot of anyone there. She would never make a mistake like packing a loaded gun into a bag. She was a professional, an expert. Don't really make those mistakes at that level.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Still, the Zambia police seem to take Larry's word for it. They don't take any fingerprints at this scene. Instead, they take Bianca's body to the capital city of Lusaka for an autopsy. And they pretty quickly rule Bianca's death as an accident. But then Larry does something really weird.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
He contacts the American Embassy in Lusaka and tells them just 11 hours after she had died in Africa, he wants his wife cremated. So she died. She goes in for an autopsy. They say it's an accident. And immediately he's like, hey, cremate her.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Well, also this is despite the fact that it is apparently known to everyone who knows Bianca. She did not want to be cremated. This is going against her wishes. Even weirder, Larry does not call his kids and tell them what's happened. So when a diplomat offered to make the calls for him, Larry's like, no, I just don't want to call him. I don't want to tell him over the phone.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So, meanwhile, the two kids, Anna Bianca and Julian, were back in the States actually panicking. Because for the last two days, their parents were supposed to have come home and now neither of them have been answering their calls or texts. It actually wasn't until five days after Bianca's death that Larry finally decides to call Julian the son and tell him what happened.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Just a few days after that, Larry is on a plane headed back to the US with Biancas ashes in tow. And for the most part, the Rudolph family tries to move forward. They have a funeral for Bianca in Arizona on October 22nd, 2016. But there's no Catholic mass like many think the religious Bianca would have wanted.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Nachdem Julian nach Miami zurückkehrt, wo er seine eigene persönliche Schmerzpraxis baut, und die Tochter Anna-Bianca zurückkehrt zur Arbeit in der Familien-Dental-Praxis in Pittsburgh. Larry ist also allein in Arizona im Haus. For the next year or so, Julian and Anna Bianca don't see much of Larry, their dad.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And when they do, he's really adamant with them that he does not want to talk about what happened on that vacation. So these two kids are still just like, Es sind viele Leute, die Bianca wussten. All of this has just been a little off. And they begin to think Larry might be covering something up. So it starts with a few small things.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Like I said, the news that Larry rushed to have her body cremated when many knew Bianca didn't want that. But then Larry starts installing security cameras around his offices. He also starts getting on the phone with those insurance companies pretty quick to try and cash in on her life insurance policies, which are worth almost $5 million, mind you. Here's the thing.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Larry is rich from his medical practice. From what I could tell in my research, this guy is nowhere, he's not hurting for money. He's not in the red. He doesn't exactly need this $5 million. So you have to ask, if there was something suspicious about Bianca's death, what reason did Larry have behind it? Because it's not necessarily for money.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Money isn't necessarily a motive when you've got things going on on the side.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
The next most common motive. Larry, let's just say he's not a very faithful guy, okay? He fooled around a lot outside of his marriage in the 34 years that he and Bianca were together. For a long time, Larry claimed he just did this for thrill. It was just like an adrenaline-seeking adventure for him.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
A little dangerous because he liked the possibility of getting caught. And he did get caught, by the way, back in the early 2000s. Because that's when Bianca confronted him, told him, if you don't shape up and stop sleeping around, I'm going to file for divorce. And Larry did shape up, or at least he told Bianca he did.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Bianca even insisted on a post-Nup agreement to make sure if Larry did step out on her again, he would pay for it. And then 2002 rolled around and a woman named Lori Milleron came into Larry's life. But Lori wasn't just a quick chase for Larry like all the other girls before. She was someone he had fallen in love with hard.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Lori war ein 44-jähriger Divorzier mit drei Kindern, die im Mai 2002 einen zweiten Job brauchten, um ihre Familie zu unterstützen. So kam sie zu einem der Praktiken von Larry als Dentalhygienistin und Larry sah mit ihr aus dem ersten Tag aus. Es scheint, dass Lori das gleiche fühlte, weil er schnell von ihrer Bossin zu ihrer geheimen Freundin ging.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I do want to say though, it seems like a pretty open secret around the office because they would arrive together in the same car for work. And especially when Lori was moved to another one of the practices locations and given a big promotion pretty fast. This is the perks of dating Larry and they didn't end there. I don't know what Larry told Bianca when all of this was happening.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I know he was back and forth between their house in Arizona and Pittsburgh. So he had a lot easier time hiding it. But apparently between 2003 and 2008, he actually took Lori, his mistress, on several trips around the globe. I'm talking, he took her to Paris, Africa. Wait, how does that happen? New Zealand, his wife. No, I think she knows he's going on these trips.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I don't think she knew that Bianca. I don't think she knew that Laurie was with him. And during a lot of those vacations, Larry would tell Laurie how he wanted to leave Bianca for her. Meanwhile, he told other people who confronted him about the affair that he and Bianca just had an open marriage. She knew he was seeing other women.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
everyone who knew bianca knew this wasn't the case but also bianca was a really intelligent woman chances are she probably did know something was going on with larry especially since he had a track record of treating on her in reality many think bianca just didn't want to file for divorce because of her catholic upbringing it went against everything she believed in
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And she was alone a lot of the time in Arizona. For Larry, it went against everything he believed in, too, because he didn't want to lose all of his money. And because of that, the two stayed together for a lot longer than they probably should have. All the while, Larry keeps seeing Lori. But according to some sources, Lori starts to get a bit impatient with Larry.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Around 2015, she apparently told him he had a year to get rid of Bianca or she would walk away from the relationship. Dann, was passiert, nachdem Bianca im Oktober 2016 stirbt, innerhalb dieses Jahres? Ich kann dir eines sagen, Larry und Lori sind noch zusammen. Nicht nur das, er fliegt sie aus Pittsburgh nach Arizona, am Tag, an dem Biancas Geburtstag ist.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Within a month or two after that, Lori moves into the Arizona house he shared with Bianca. So knowing all of this, like how quickly Lori becomes a part of the life that he flew her out there to visit on the day of his wife's funeral, friends and colleagues are now suspicious of Bianca's death. And one of them wastes no time offering this information up to the FBI. Her Name is Anna Grimley.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
She's an employee at Three Rivers Dental, one of Larry's practices. To be honest, it feels like she doesn't owe this guy a thing because Larry is not very well liked around his practices. Probably for his notorious temper, his history of throwing things at his employees when he gets mad. So good for Anna for calling up the FBI and saying something.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
She tells them all about his affair, this known affair with Lori and how Lori had given him that one-year ultimatum to divorce or get rid of his wife. But as it turns out, this isn't the first time Larry Rudolph had landed on the FBI's radar. In fact, they've been sniffing him out ever since he asked to get his wife cremated in Africa at the American Embassy. Really?
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Yeah. I don't know, y'all. I don't know, but watch this.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So after the accident, authorities had to call the US consulate to report Bianca's death as his protocol. And when they say, hey, the husband is here looking to cremate his wife, which by the way is not standard practice in Zambia, the consulate general is like, okay, let me come down to the funeral home, talk to this guy, because this is all feeling very rushed.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So he gets there with two agents and before Bianca's body is cremated, he makes sure to take pictures in case the investigation needs to be reopened, which is a smart move. Because when he turns those photos over to the FBI, their ballistics team is like, hang on a second. This does not look like a self-inflicted gunshot.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
There's no burns or what they call tissue expansion seen on Bianca, which would happen if she was leaning over and the barrel was that close to her chest. They claim this shot was fired at least three feet away from her chest.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
From what appears to be inside the gun bag, since that also has a gunshot through it. Remember, they have a bullet hole in the gun bag to look at.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So you can't accidentally fire a rifle into your heart from three feet away.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So to them, this means she did not pull that trigger. Like this is actually now impossible. So ever since that day, the FBI had definitely had their suspicions of Larry, but nothing much more to work off of because they didn't have a ton of evidence. Though it does explain his paranoia and the adding of video cameras in all of his practices, because he seems to know someone's looking into him.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Our sources for this episode are people.com, abc7.com, justice.gov, newyorktimes.com, cbsnews.com, oxygen.com, apnews.com, cnn.com, lawandcrime.com, rollingstone.com, mbcnews.com, triblive.com, happyscribe.com and 2020 the last hunt. Okay, Leute, lasst uns das so sagen. Wir alle brauchen eine kleine Verabschiedung, jedes Mal und immer wieder. Oh, schau dir das an.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Now hearing about the girlfriend, though, the FBI has motive. Meanwhile, they're sifting through Larry's financial history as well, because usually when someone kills their spouse, they are quick to collect the cash, wealthy or not. And Larry has seemingly made a full-time job out of it, practically since the moment he returned from that trip.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Turns out, Larry went around collecting that nearly 5 million in insurance policies from not one company, but nine different insurance companies. And six months before Bianca died, they had set up a survivor's trust, which gave Larry full control over the assets that they had together.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Das ist, ich meine, man könnte denken, dass das normal ist, aber das ist im Grunde nur ein einfacherer Weg, nachdem jemand in einer Beziehung stirbt, für jemanden die Kontrolle davon zu bekommen, was sehr beruhigend ist, weil, während Larry jetzt in Dough rollte und große Depositen von Geld in Lori's Accounts injizierte, Julian and Anna Bianca are not given any money. So their mother dies.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
He is completely funding Lori's life and the kids aren't seeing anything. Authorities also learn this wasn't Larry's first time dealing with insurance companies like this. Remember that incident in Zambia with the crocodile? He got his thumb bit off.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
When he came back, he said he had to go on disability, remember, because he said he had lost all sensation and he couldn't work as a dentist. Well, when all was said and done, Larry had actually collected 3.5 million dollars from multiple insurance companies. Depending on who you ask, though, that crocodile bite never happened.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So after hearing what occurred in October 2016 with Bianca, many of Larry's friends and colleagues think that wound might have been self-inflicted, that Larry might have shot off the tip of his thumb to collect insurance money. And since the insurance companies knew it would be too expensive to send their appraisers to Zambia and assess the claim, they just gave him the money.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
He just liked money. Which might explain why he didn't just divorce. Because he knew that he would lose money, which he seems to love. So we're seeing a pattern here. Larry would head to Zambia, lie about what happened there, come back and get a lot of money. Problem was, this still isn't quite enough to charge Larry with murder.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Which is why, for the next three years after Bianca's death, he and Lori get to live out the life they hoped for. But in 2020, they make a really stupid mistake. So Lori and Larry are out to dinner at this Phoenix Steakhouse sometime earlier that year, 2020. Apparently it's a place they visit often because the bartender, a guy named Brian Lovelace, seems to recognize them.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And he notices that halfway through their dinner, Larry and Lori start fighting. Jetzt ist die Musik ein wenig laut, also von halbwegs über die Runde kann man nicht wirklich herausfinden, was sie sagen. Aber an einem Punkt stoppt die Musik und Brian, der der Bartender ist, der sich einfach auf dieses Paar aufschlägt, weil wer würde es nicht?
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Ob das auf einem Beach in Tahiti oder auf der Suche nach Abenteuer in Afrika ist, wir alle haben verschiedene Ideen, was ein entspannender Abenteuer für uns bedeutet. But honestly, some of my happiest memories I have are from the trips we've taken together. I mean, I feel like Garrett and I, when we do take trips, just us two, it's always so fun.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Wie ein Paar, das neben dir kämpft, du wirst dich aufschlagen und versuchen, die Dramatik herauszufinden. Die Musik stoppt und Brian hört eine Satz sehr deutlich. Larry schaut nach ihr und sofort, als die Musik aufhört, sagt er, ich habe meine verdammte Frau für dich getötet.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Oh, ich meine, die Zeitung, wow, schreckliche Zeitung, schreckliche Zeitung, weil er es so laut sagen musste, weil die Musik zu laut war, aber dann hat die Musik aufgehört und es war einfach ein bisschen zu laut.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Noch nicht. Du sagst wahrscheinlich nur, oh, ich muss lachen.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So, I mean, the timing couldn't have been worse. And Lori and Larry knew it, too, because as soon as it happens, they know they said that too loud. They kind of look around. They grab their stuff. Lori storms out. Larry stands up. He apologizes to Brian. He he pays the bill and leaves. Even a woman sitting near them asks Brian, hey, did you hear what that guy just said?
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Yeah, so it wasn't just the bartender, he was eavesdropping.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Larry hat einfach zu einer Dining-Ruhe voller Menschen in Arizona in 2020 verurteilt, dass er seine Frau verurteilt hat. Und sobald die FBI von diesem Wind kommt, wird es in die Pile gelegt. Also über das nächste Jahr wird die FBI bereit, Larry zu bewegen. Und er und Laurie wissen es. Sie beginnen, noch mehr Paranoid zu werden. Die FBI-Agenten folgen ihnen.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Und dann im Mai 2021 setzt Larry auf, in Äthiopien für einen anderen Hunting-Trip. And while he's gone, agents knocked on Lori's door in Pittsburgh looking for her. She hid inside and then bought a flight to Phoenix that same day to go hide there instead. Remember, they're still back and forth between Phoenix and Pittsburgh.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
But by December of that year, agents finally have all of their ducks in a row. Lori and Larry set off for Cabo for the holidays. But before they could get out of the airport, police arrested Larry for mail fraud and murder. He was considered a flight risk, obviously, and denied bond. Lori made it back home to the States to celebrate a very unmerry Christmas.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
But by January of 2022, she also received a knock on her door. And that's when she's arrested for obstruction to justice and being an accessory to murder because they now have witnesses that say that is what was said. While Larry is forced to await his trial behind bars, Lori is given an ankle bracelet and placed on house arrest. And in July of 2022, the two are put on trial together.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Weißt du, was ich meine? Es wird eine Trial-Witness-Testimony sein. Das ist es, was es werden wird. Eine Menge Wissen-Testimony. Bianca wollte das nicht. Das war bescheuert. Vielleicht ist das nicht passiert. Jetzt, was interessant ist, ist, dass Larrys Kinder, 33-jähriger Julian und 29-jähriger Anna Bianca, wenn all das Licht kommt, sind sie aufmerksam, dass ihr Vater das nicht gemacht hat.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Sie sagen, nein, es war ein Unfall. Sie senden sogar geschlossene Affidavit, um zu sagen, dass ihr Vater ungewohnt ist und der Judge ihm Bell geben sollte. Das funktioniert nicht. Aber schockierend genug sind sie in der Überraschung ihrer Leben, wenn es Zeit kommt, für ihren Dads Tag im Gericht. Weil für das erste Mal, dass sie hören und sehen,
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And I think the best part of vacation is getting that time to disconnect from the world, from your stress, from your problems, and just focus on yourself and the person you're with. Plus, sie sind ein guter Weg, eine Verbindung mit jemandem zu stärken. Sie können eine ordentliche Freundschaft in eine, die einen Leben lang dauert.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
All of the circumstantial evidence the FBI has been compiling against him. I mean, keep in mind, they don't know everything.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Julian the Sun would actually go on to tell the press, quote, Every day going into that courtroom, I saw something new that just broke my heart. But for the defense, let's say the Zambia police did them a lot of favors because for whatever reason, like I said, nothing was fingerprinted or taken as evidence at the crime scene. The murder weapon was turned back over to Larry shortly after the crime.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Most of the case is circumstantial, like I said. Aside from the pretty convincing results from the ballistics team that say there's just no possible way Bianca pulled that trigger, that's the only physical evidence they have that proves this story isn't true.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Now Larry takes a stand at their trial and of course he denies all the allegations, says that argument the bartender overheard was about COVID-19. He was like it would affect his practices and his finances. He says what Garrett just said he would do. He gets up and says... Quote, now they're saying I killed my effing wife for you, not I killed my effing wife for you.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
He also maintains that he and Bianca had an open marriage. He's like, no, I wasn't cheating on her. I've told everyone it was an open marriage. She knew. Let's just say his testimony didn't help him or Lori, because after nearly two weeks, more than 50 witnesses took the stand.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And after just a few days of deliberating, the jury couldn't come to an agreement, but eventually they had their verdict. Okay. Nun, Julian sagt, dass seine Beziehung mit seinem Vater niemals das gleiche sein wird. Er nimmt nicht wirklich das Telefon, wenn sein Vater ihn aus der Gefängnis ruft, nicht nach dem Trial.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Also hat Larry nicht nur alle um ihn herum verletzt, er hat seine eigenen Kinder verletzt. Und er hat sie mit einem ziemlich großen Messen auf dem Topf gelegt. Seit 2023 haben 34-jähriger Julian und seine Schwester versucht, die Mittel, die ihr Vater von ihnen versteckt hat, nach Biancas Mord zu retten.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Problem ist, dass das US-Gewerbe denkt, dass die Versicherungsunternehmen das Geld zurückgegeben haben, weil es ein Mord war, nicht Larrys Kinder. Und was für Geld in die Familie gehörte, wurde meistens von Larry gespendet, bevor er verhaftet wurde. Ich meine, wie ich gesagt habe, er war immer noch lebendig und er hatte Legalzahlen.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Vielleicht ist es eine Chance, deine Eltern auf einem Niveau zu kennen, an dem du sie noch nie kennst. Oder vielleicht ist es eine Möglichkeit, eine Flamme zu erneuern. Ein Zeitpunkt für ein bisschen Romanz mit deinem Partner, besonders wenn das Leben einfach in den Weg gegangen ist. Und obwohl wir viele von uns das Reisen zurück nach Hause, zurück in die Realität drehen,
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Unfortunately, the Rudolph kids might be fighting for what's rightfully theirs for a long time to come. And as for Larry, it looks like the only lavish vacation he'll ever have again is to the prison yard, get a little fresh air. And that is the story of Bianca Rudolph.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I'm actually not surprised. And normally you don't hear me say that on a heavy circumstantial case.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I just think there's so many witnesses to the affair. Bianca's friends and family saying, no, she had given him a year. I just think there was too much that's like, he clearly was obsessed with money. He couldn't just divorce her. So he killed her.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
She thought they were just on a good vacation trying to focus on their marriage.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Alright you guys, that is our case for this week and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Oh Mann, I'd hate if we were vacationing in Idaho and that was the last place and I had to die there.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Hey, alle. Willkommen zurück auf dem Podcast. Das ist Murder with My Husband. Ich bin Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Okay, so we're gonna turn the clock back to the 80s. The hair is big, the clothes are vibrant.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Yeah. Clothes are vibrant and for Bianca Fenizzo, the world is a promising place to be in the 80s. Bianca is a student at the University of Pittsburgh who dreams of traveling the world one day. Specifically, this college student Bianca wants to go to Italy. She loves the language and the culture, but more importantly, she just wants adventure.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And she wants to find someone who shares her thrill-seeking nature. So when she meets a fellow student, Lawrence Patrick Rudolph, or Larry, as his friends call him, she actually falls for him quick. Larry ist vielleicht ein Kind aus einer kleinen Stadt in Pennsylvania namens Irwin, aber er hat auch einen Nacken für adrenalinegefuehlte Abenteuer.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Und nicht einen, den ich persönlich als einen guten Zeitpunkt betrachten würde. Larry liebt es, zu hüten. Larrys Vater hat ihn mit allem von Waffen bis zu Kugeln und Kugeln geholfen, als er ein Kind war. Und für Larry war es ein Hobby, das sich in eine echte Leidenschaft in die Jahre gedreht hat.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Einen, den er sogar Bianca in Beziehung bringen würde, nachdem sie sich kennengelernt haben, verliebt sind und 1982 verheiratet wurden. Aber Larry war der Art von Mann, der immer seine Augen auf den Preis hatte. Also, nach dem Hochschulabschluss, rief er schnell die Räume, öffnete seine eigene Praxis, die Three Rivers Dental, in der Pittsburgh-Area.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Und mittlerweile wurde Biancas Job nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder, Julien in 1990, und dann Anna Bianca nach dem Geburtstag ihrer beiden Kinder,
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
And he said Larry was a good dad who was just as charismatic as he was generous to his family and to other people around him. A lot of people who knew the couple and family said that they had the kind of marriage that people aspire to have. Though Larry did work a lot, especially when his practice franchised, opening a few more locations around the Pittsburgh area.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So by the 2000s, the business was doing really well for itself. According to some sources, they were bringing in over $200,000 a month. Sheesh. Dang. In 2000. That's good. And Larry spent a lot of that disposable income taking this family on nice vacations all over the world. Okay, so fast forward. This family had little kids and now they're growing up. They're making a lot of money.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Larry has a very lucrative dental practice that has franchised. So by 2011, when Anna Bianca, this is their youngest child, has chosen to go to school in Arizona. The family buys a piece of property there to be close to her. So like when they visit, they're with her. It's a 7000 square foot mansion in Scottsdale, Arizona, to be exact. And this is where Bianca spent most of her time.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So the mom spent most of her time here, while Larry, the father, went back and forth between there and Pittsburgh to keep running his dental practices that are there. But the one thing that always seemed to keep Bianca and Larry connected, even after years of marriage and raising this family, was that passion that first brought them together. Adventure. Or in their case specifically, hunting.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I have to say, the kind of hunting they were into was not just deer or quail. They have a lot of money. Larry and Bianca were in the big leagues.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Genau. Nein, das ist das, was du es nennen willst. Sie waren große Spielhunter, was bedeutet, dass sie in Afrika reisen, die Welt reisen, Hunde wie Zwiebeln.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Bianca war so in dieses Hobby, dass sie tatsächlich Präsident der Pittsburgh-Chapter des Safari Club International wurde. Es war ein Hunting Club. Sie war tatsächlich in dieser Gemeinschaft wirklich gut respektiert, weil sie das Spiel getötet hat. Aber Larry, während er ihr viel von dem, was sie wusste, erzählt hat, war er tatsächlich nicht so scharf gesetzt, wie Bianca in diesem Hobby war.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
In 2006 kam er in einen ziemlich wilden Unfall, während er fischierte. Am Oktober war Larry auf einer Reise in Zambien, Afrika. Und eines Tages hat er seinen Polen gefangen und hat sich auf den Banken gefischt. Ein Bereich, der mit Krokodilen notorisch populiert ist, meint man. Larry sagte, er ist in die Wasser geraten, als er dachte, dass etwas seine Linie gefangen hat.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I already told everyone on my Instagram live and my Twitch live what it is. Sorry, if you weren't listening or watching.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Und das ist, als ein Krokodil sich ausgeliefert hat, ihn gefangen hat und ihn in die Wasser gefangen hat. No way out Larry escaped in Africa on this trip by climbing onto a rock getting a grip on his gun and firing it a few times for help. Now luckily for Larry the crocodile only managed to get a small chunk out of the tip of his thumb. Help eventually arrived in the form of a medevac chopper.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
But Larry refused to get on until his guide took a bunch of photos of his injury, like a prized battle wound. According to Larry, the injury was enough, though, to take a toll on his life. He said he lost all sensation in that thumb, which made it difficult for him to perform dental surgery. So he actually ended up going on disability and collecting insurance money. Das ist interessant.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Sorry, I don't feel bad saying this. I'm just not a fan. I think that this is unethical.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Don't come at me. I love animals and it's okay that I love animals.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Yeah, I think that's it. I think we're ready for your 10 seconds.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Es fühlt sich so an, wie wir schon ein paar Mal gesprochen haben, wie manchmal, vielleicht ist es hier, vielleicht ist es auf Twitch, ich weiß es nicht, wirklich reiche Leute werden so reich, dass sie sich bewegen, sodass sie etwas tun müssen, was die üblichen Menschen nicht tun können.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Yeah, they always have to do the next big thing. This is kind of what that feels like to me. All right, rant over. So that September, the couple left the States, partly in celebration of their 34 years together. Zambia was a place they had many great memories together. And after some years of having grown apart together,
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
They figured this would be a great trip to kind of focus on their marriage and rekindle their flame. So after flying 20 hours from Arizona to Zambia, the Rudolphs were ready for two weeks of R&R, or as they define it, hunting beautiful animals. So they make their way to Kafua National Park, which has a designated area where big game hunting is actually permitted. It's not illegal.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
There they also meet up with their longtime friend and hunting guide, Mark Swanepel, and a local game scout named Spencer Kokoma. Now, for what seems like the entire trip, things are pretty awesome between Larry and Bianca. Their guides say they're affectionate towards one another. There's no fighting or bickering. They're just having fun. Everyone's in high spirits.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
But by the end of their two weeks there, Bianca is disappointed because she hasn't been able to track or kill the one animal she came there for. And that was the leopard. Still, she chalks the trip up to a win because she had managed to kill a zebra, a warthog, and a hippo.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I'm sorry, you guys, if you can't tell, Garen and I are just very pro-animals.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I just don't think hunting should be for sport. And I know that's going to come off like a very hot take. I don't care what you do. I'm not telling you you're a bad person.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
I'm saying that in my brain, in my human experience, I would never hunt for sport.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
So, by now her guides even say that she's really perfected her shot. She knows how to handle a gun better than most hunters. Plus, Bianca is excited to get back home because they actually have a nephew's wedding to attend in the next few days. So, on the morning of October 11th, the Rudolfs are getting ready to say goodbye to their guides and leave their camp until their next trip to Zambia.
Murder With My Husband
264. The Murder Safari
Larry wächst auf, er geht zum Schlafen, als Bianca ihre Sachen packt, insbesondere ihre Waffen, ihre Waffen, wenn plötzlich ein einziger Schuss von ihrem Kabinett gehört wird. Okay, hier gehen wir. Jetzt, Spencer Kokoma, ihr lokaler Gamescout, hört die Waffe aus und fährt sofort Richtung Rudolfs Kabinett, um sicherzustellen, dass alles gut ist und sie sicher sind.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
I mean, you have to think if a friend comes up to you and goes, hey, I might have committed a murder when I was blacked out. Holy crap, this is gonna get wild. Und hier ist, was du in Bezug nehmen musst. Dieser Fall hat keine Bewegung gehabt, wirklich seit dem Tag, an dem es vor zwei Jahren geschehen ist.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Also sind die Polizei wahrscheinlich ein wenig besorgt, jemanden zu verurteilen, zumindest, um seine Familie einen Sinn zu geben. Und hier ist jemand, der sie im Grunde genommen nur auf einem silbernen Plattel gebeten hat. Sie haben im Grunde ihre Arbeiten für sie gemacht. So when Charles finally sits before police, he opens the floodgates.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
He tells them everything that he thinks happened back on the night of October 31st to November 1st. Here's what he says. That evening, him, Charles, a 17-year-old high school senior at the time, was partying at a friend's house in Colombia.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
But when police broke up the party, he and his friend, Ryan Ferguson, who was just arriving at the busted party, decided to go meet up with Ryan's older sister and keep the night going. Now, she was out at a bar in downtown Columbia called By George's. Now, By George's was only a few blocks away from Kent's offices.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
In order to get into the bar, though, Ryan's sister took two of her friends' IDs and let Charles and Ryan use them to get into the bar with her. And apparently it worked. But here's where things get weird about Charles' story of that night. Remember how he told Ryan a couple months earlier that he blacked out that night so he doesn't remember if they did it or not.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
He just has this feeling that maybe they did. Once he gets in front of police, They somehow get a full length story out of him, okay? What? Somehow the missing pieces of that night come together suddenly. Now he says we stayed for a few hours, we had plenty of drinks, but around 1 a.m. the two of them decided to leave, these two 17-year-olds.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
When Ryan's sister refused to give them cash to keep the party going, Charles says that Ryan proposed robbing somebody. So they grabbed a tire iron from Ryan's trunk and began walking around town looking for someone to jump in the early morning hours. They wanted money to keep partying.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So they eventually found themselves in the Columbia Tribune parking lot, just as Kent Heitholt was leaving the building. Charles said once he was alone, they ran up to him. Charles hit him in the head repeatedly with the tire iron, while Ryan stole his watch and car keys.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
charles sagt dann ryan entfernte kent's Knie und streckte ihn, okay, also das ist eine volle Verabschiedung, du musst dich fragen, hat charles wirklich nur all das erinnert, wie mit der Hilfe der Detektivs plötzlich oder waren die polizei in diesem Interview, die ihn bewegen, dass das passiert ist, ja, er kam rein und sagte, ich weiß nicht, vielleicht haben wir es gemacht, ich war verblüfft und plötzlich ist das die Verabschiedung, die sie auf Tape bekommen haben,
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Denn es dauert sie eine sehr lange Zeit, um diese kohäsive Geschichte aus ihm heraus zu bekommen. In der Tat, die ersten paar Mal, als sie ihn beantworten, gibt es viel, was er falsch macht über das echte Verbrechen. Okay, also sagen sie, wenn du derjenige bist, der es verurteilt hat, wüsstest du Dinge. Und er macht wirklich Dinge falsch. Zum Beispiel.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Er wusste es nicht. Und er ist auch jung. Und er ist auch... Er sitzt da und... Er ist besorgt, dass er es gemacht hätte, weil er dieses Schild gesehen hat. Ja. Und ich meine, wenn du in einer Polizei-Interrogation sitzt, in der du fühlst, dass du keine Rechte hast... Ja, besonders wenn du es nicht weißt, du bist nicht auf dieser Stelle studiert.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ich denke, es ist ein bisschen mehr gemeinsames Wissen jetzt, dass du eigentlich nicht mit der Polizei sprechen musst, ohne einen Arzt. Also, verstehe dich. So gehen diese Interrogationen. In der ersten Gruppe sagten sie, Charles, wenn einer von euch Kent gesträngelt hat, mit wem hast du ihn gesträngelt?
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
weil die Polizei natürlich weiß, dass es der Knie war, aber das wurde dem Publikum nicht geliefert, richtig? Also sagt er, ähm, ein Shirt. Und dann sind die Polizisten so, ein Shirt? Bist du sicher, dass es ein Shirt war? Und er ist so, äh, nein, vielleicht war es ein Bungee-Kord. Okay, Charles, als er kommt, hat er ursprünglich keine Ahnung, dass Kent mit einem Knie verletzt wurde.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und wenn er gefragt wurde, ob er an seinen Kleidern oder anderen Schmerzen hatte am nächsten Tag, ist Charles so, hm, nein, es gab nichts seltsames am nächsten Tag. At one point in interrogation, Charles literally says, quote, It's so foggy. I could be fabricating all of this. But if you asked Ryan Ferguson, he would say, Charles was making this entire thing up.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And yet, Ryan is also arrested immediately after Charles gives this, I mean, honestly seemingly coerced confession, because how does his story change multiple times until finally... Es passt auf den richtigen. Und Ryan's Geschichte ist komplett anders. Also laut Ryan, er sagt, nein, ich war nicht mal trank am Abend. Er sagte, er hatte ein paar Trinken, aber er war klug.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Er sagt, nein, er war richtig. Wir waren am Bar, aber wir sind um 1.15 Uhr am Abend weggegangen. Und ich fuhr Charles nach Hause. Und dann ging ich nach Hause und ich ging nach Bett. Ende Geschichte. Wir haben jemanden nicht geräumt. Wir haben nicht versucht, Geld zu finden, um die Partie zu halten.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
If you're listening on Apple Podcasts right now, Double click, no ads. That simple. That simple. Double click, no ads. You don't even have to think about it. You can do it with your eyes closed.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ja, weil er sagt, nein, ich war nicht mal trank. Er sagt, es gab kein Wanderen um die Stadt, es gab definitiv keinen Mörder. Er insinuiert, Quote, ich habe absolut nichts mit diesem Mörder zu tun. Ich war nicht mal irgendwo nahe an dieser Krimszene. But police don't seem to care. They also don't seem to care that none of the evidence can be conclusively tied back to Ryan or Charles.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Neither of their fingerprints are found on the vehicle. There was not a random hair of theirs at the crime scene. There was no bloody prints of theirs. The only thing that remotely fits, the only thing that really ties these boys to the crime scene is Shauna Ort's description of two white college-aged boys. And still,
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Both Ryan Ferguson and Charles Erickson are charged with murder, primarily based on Charles' seemingly coerced confession.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
They didn't believe Ryan, no.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
I don't understand how Charles can be like, honestly, I blacked out and I could be making all of this up. I just saw that sketch and it freaked me out. And the police are like, yep, you guys did it.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Totally could be. You also have to take into consideration that there could be underlying problems here of like mental health, like maybe he has OCD or something that is causing him extreme guilt that he like can't make sense of in his head. But he might not, you know, like there's just so many things that could make people react differently in this situation.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
That we have no idea. You know what I mean?
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Stealing a cookie and murdering someone. But the only reason I say that is because I personally am very close to someone who has guilt-based OCD. And if they saw a sketch that looked like them and knew that they were somewhere near that, there's a very high chance that they would convince themselves they did it.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
But yeah, anyways, it's just a simple double click. Alright, Gare. Take it away with your 10 seconds.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Also, wir wissen einfach nicht, warum Charles das tut, aber es könnten innere Erklärungen dafür sein. Weißt du, was ich meine? Vor allem, weil er keine Details des Verbrechens kennt. Er wusste nichts, als er in den Gefängnis ging. Er hat nur gesagt, hey, das sieht so aus. Es ist verrückt. Er ist in den Gefängnis gegangen, was er nicht gemacht hat.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So Charles actually takes a plea deal for second degree murder because what are they going to do? I mean, they're going to have to get his confession thrown out and that's going to be hard in 2003. So he takes a plea deal. He gets a 25 year sentence. But part of that deal is that he has to testify against Ryan Ferguson during his trial because Ryan is definitely not pleading guilty.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Jetzt sagt Charles einige ziemlich wilde Sachen auf dem Stand. Zuerst sagt er, ich habe das gemacht, er hat das gemacht, wir haben das gemacht. Ich habe nichts gewünscht, ich habe nichts gemacht. Und er konnte weniger kümmern, was mit Ryan passiert, weil er weiß, dass sie beide schuld sind und er denkt, dass das die richtige Sache ist, um das zu tun.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And then he goes on to basically act out the events of that night in front of the jury, how he hit Kent with the tire iron. And then he shows how Ryan had pinned down Kent with his foot and strangled him with the belt. So when someone is admitting to something with that much conviction, like acting out a crime, it can be pretty convincing.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So this is not great for Ryan Ferguson because he's on trial and someone's saying, no, we did this together and this is exactly how it happened.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und du kannst den Gericht nicht beurteilen, weil, ich meine, unless you're being told, hey, this confession might have been coerced, which we know happens all the time. Or, hey, you know, there could be underlying issues. Or, hey, there was absolutely no physical evidence tying them to this crime, even though there is evidence at the crime scene.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
If someone comes forward and says, hey, he did this, that would be really hard to not believe.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ich meine, und Charles ist nicht der einzige Beobachter an diesem Trial. Erinnere dich, du hast den Beobachter. Also testet Jerry Trump. Und er schreibt, dass er, während er Zeit auf eine andere unabhängige Anzeige verbrachte, seine Frau ihm einen beruflichen Newsartikel des Verbrechens gesendet hat. Und dieser Artikel enthielt Mugshots von Charles und Ryan.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und Jerry sagte, als er diese Fotos gesehen hat, wusste er sofort, dass er die gleichen Leute sah, die er in der Parkplatte am Abend gesehen hat. Also haben Sie jetzt auch einen Beobachter, der sagt, nein, ich habe diese Jungs gesehen.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
in the parking lot that night and he tells the jury this okay but like i was saying earlier what the jury did not get to hear was any evidence pointing to ryan ferguson or charles erickson okay all they have is Eyewitness Evidence. That's it.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And even though the defense argues, hey, none of the hair that was found, none of the blood, none of the fingerprints match Ryan Ferguson's or Charles for that matter. It didn't seem to matter. Apparently, they even did a sweep of the car that Ryan was driving that night. They found no signs of blood in that vehicle.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Das ist verrückt. Okay. Get this, so shortly after this, 21-year-old Ryan, a college student who has his whole life ahead of him, is sentenced to 40 years in prison.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
But also is Charles a victim in this scenario as well. For sure. You know what I mean? For sure.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
How do you make sense of that in your head?
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
No, listen loud and clear. Charles can 100% be a victim and Ryan can also hold animosity towards Charles for getting them in this situation. You know what I mean? Both can ring true.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Okay, so for the next four years, Ryan sits in prison. Wondering how the F did he even end up here. Wondering if anyone would ever believe him. He reaches out to a few advocacy groups, hoping they'll take on his case. And he even asks Charles to be part of that as well. He says he wanted to help get Charles released too.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
He believes that Charles was manipulated and used to close a case that was growing cold.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ryan ist so, hey, ich bin mir sicher, Charles war ein low-hanging fruit.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Nun, hier ist das Ding. Charles does have a history of drug abuse. So that is also playing into it as well. And Ryan brings this up to people. They're like, he tells these advocacy groups, Charles was used, Charles was manipulated. And I in turn have also taken the fall, which, like I said, I mean, it is pretty admirable. weil er mit Charles wirklich, wirklich wütend sein könnte.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Vielleicht denkt er einfach nur, dass das der einzige Weg ist, Charles' Verabschiedung rauszuholen. Aber sobald Leute über diesen Fall hören, wollen sie etwas darüber machen. Also, 2009 hat ein hochprofile Anwalt namens Kathleen Zellner gesagt, dass sie Ryan's Case pro bono aufnehmen wird. Und dann, schockierend, Wochen später bekommt Ryan ein Brief in die Mail. Und es kommt von Charles Erickson.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und es sagt Ryan, lasst eure Anwesenden zu mir sprechen, die nächste Zeit, wenn sie da unten sind. Also hat Kathleen sofort eine Reise geplant, wenn sie darüber hört. Und wenn sie da kommt, hat Charles ein ganz geschriebenes Statement, das er sich vorbereitet hat, mit ihr zu teilen. Und weißt du, was er sagt? Dass Dinge anders geschehen sind, als er es im Gericht gesagt hat.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Also ist er seine Erklärung nachvollziehen. Er sagt, ich war die einzige Person, die Kent am Abend attackiert hat, und Ryan war nur ein Anwesender. He says he didn't warn or tell Ryan what he was going to do and that Ryan was not complicit in the matter. In fact, he says Ryan even tried to stop him and he didn't listen.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So he's telling Ryan's attorneys that he made up Ryan's involvement to try to save himself a little bit of jail time. Now, when Kathleen brings this back to Ryan, she sees this as great news. I mean, this is terms for a new trial. Your star witness in his case is admitting to perjury. But Ryan knows and tells his attorney, this still isn't the truth. He says, I wasn't there that night.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
I wasn't even a witness. I did not see Charles kill anyone. And Ryan really feels like Charles wasn't there either. But the constant changing of the stories is confusing to Ryan's new lawyer, Kathleen. Weil sie sich fragt, warum würde dieser Junge sich einfach tiefer befassen?
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Wenn er sich mit seinem ursprünglichen Statement befinden würde, hätte er sich in den nächsten paar Jahren auf Parole befinden können. Aber jetzt verabschiedet er sich von der Verabschiedung. Und er wird wahrscheinlich seine ganze Sitzung leisten. Und er erzählt noch nicht die Geschichte, die Ryan erzählt. Vielleicht hat er sich für Ryan entschuldigt.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Vielleicht hat er gedacht, wenn er das gemacht hätte, könnte er Ryan verabschieden. Und in einer Art und Weise macht er das.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Im August 2010 verabschiedet Kathleen Ryan's Case in einem Appellate Court. Aber außer von der Wahrnehmung, dass Charles im Jahr 2005 dem Jurist verurteilt hat, gibt es ein ganz anderes Stück des Puzzles, das sie glaubt, muss wieder überprüft werden. Und das ist, dass der gesamte Motiv für diesen Krimi Robberie war. Sie sagte, das fühlt sich furchtbar an.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Zum Start, wer tötet jemanden über eine Anlage und ein Set von Türen zu einem Auto, das sie hinterlassen werden? And if they were out for cash, Ken's wallet was sitting right there in the car, in the open vehicle. Why didn't these boys take the cash if that's what they were even killing someone for? None of it made sense to her.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Which was why Kathleen hired a forensic pathologist to take another look at the autopsy. And what they find is the blunt force injuries Kent sustained to the head were not done by a tire iron, which is Charles' whole story. No way. It left skull fractures that fit the shape of a two-pronged tool, like the other side of a hammer.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So by 2012, Kathleen is ready to present these new testimonies and evidence to the judge for an appeal. But before she does, she adds one other statement to the pile. Because the custodian, Jerry Trump, she reaches out to him. He also testifies. It was basically him and Charles that put Ryan away. Sie lernt jetzt, dass Jerry auch seine Beurteilung zu seinem Beurteilungsgespräch beurteilen will.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Er sagt, dass es nicht seine Frau war, die ihm das Papier mit Ryan und Charles' Mugshot geliefert hat. Es war der Beurteilungsschützer auf dem Fall.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So, Jerry said the truth was what he had originally told the police, that he really didn't even get a good enough look at either man in the parking lot to identify them.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Yeah, I just thought that was a nice humble brag.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Okay, so this prosecutor, the original prosecutor, his name's Kevin Crane, okay? So, according to Jerry, when Kevin Crane showed him their pictures, he told Jerry, who, remember, was in jail on a separate offense at the time, that it would be very helpful... If Jerry could remember that these were the boys that he saw in the parking lot that night.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Jerry said, I just wanted to do what he thought was the right thing and maybe get out of jail earlier. So he sided with the prosecutor. Holy crap. That...
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Aber Jerry sagt jetzt, dass Ryan's neuer Arbeiter seit der Behandlung von ihm weggetrunken ist, weil er sagt, dass ich bestätigt habe, dass das die Jungs waren und ich habe keine Ahnung, dass das die Jungs waren. Aber das war nicht der einzige Tag, als Kevin Cranes Name in Kathleen, der neuen Arbeiter, in der Forschung kam.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Es scheint, dass Charles eine ähnliche Erfahrung mit dem Verurteilten hatte. In einem Vorurteil vor der Behandlung hat Charles Kevin Crane gesagt, Hey, I know like I've already confessed and stuff, but again, I was so intoxicated on the night that I really don't even remember if we did this murder or not.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So basically he goes back to his original story of like, I just saw the mugshot and now I believe we did it because of what the cops have told me. But Kevin pressures him into implicating Ryan to save himself. So it's the prosecutors I did to Charles to throw Ryan under the bus. Even Shauna Ornt, the other janitor who spoke.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So Kathleen's now putting out this option that, hey, maybe those boys that were by the car that night that said, hey, someone's hurt, maybe they weren't even involved in the murder. Which is why Kathleen is certain, I'm pretty sure the killer is still out there and it's not Ryan or Charles. Because the crime just seems oddly personal. She doesn't believe it was a robbery.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
She thinks someone had it out for Kent. And it seemed like this was more than enough to convince the appellate court that Ryan Ferguson was innocent. Because on November 12th, 2013, Ryan was released after being in prison for close to a decade.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ich meine, es gab natürlich keinen Weg, dass Ryan die letzten zehn Jahre seines Lebens zurückzuholen, weshalb er schlussendlich einen 11-Millionen-Dollar-Zivilrechts-Gesetz verabschiedet hat.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Nicht genug, um zehn Jahre im Gefängnis zu arbeiten.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und wenn man fragte, ob Ryan irgendwelche Theorien darüber kam, wer Kent getötet hat, sagten sie, okay, naja, du kennst natürlich diesen Fall ins und aus, als du versucht hast, aus dem Gefängnis rauszukommen. Er hat einen Namen geöffnet, der auf der Bewerbungsliste vermutlich überwacht wurde. The last person to see Kent that night, Kent's colleague and mentee, Mike Boyd.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Also, wenn du dich erinnerst, hat Kent mit ihm gesprochen. Sie haben beide am Morgen nach der Arbeit gegangen. Kent hat mit ihm gesprochen. Er war die letzte Person, die ihn gesehen hat, und dann ist er weg. Okay. Mike war ein Name, der während des Rheins-Apeal-Prozesses sehr oft aufhörte. Für Kathleen und den Rest des Rheins-Legal-Teams sah er sich viel besser aus als Rhein oder Charles.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Plus, Kathleen argumentierte, er hätte nie vollständig durchgeführt oder von der Polizisten-Suspect-Liste entfernt worden sein. No one checked his car. No one asked for the clothes he was wearing that night. I don't think they ever even collected DNA samples from Mike to run against what they had found at the crime scene. But here's what Kathleen found during her own investigation.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
The forensic pathologist she hired said the entire struggle between Kent and his attacker probably lasted six to eight minutes. Now Mike claimed to say goodbye to Kent in the parking lot at 2.20 a.m. That is six minutes before the custodial janitors called 911. Six minutes.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Even more worrisome, Mike's story about the night of the murder changed a lot, down to the color of the car he was driving that night. Some said blue, some said red. And according to Shauna Ornt, Mike may have even had a motive, because Shauna said Mike often spoke to her about the tension between him and Kent.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Apparently, Kent was criticizing Mike's work, and he felt disrespected by Kent, even though he idolized him. This wasn't just once or twice. Shauna said Mike spoke to her about it daily. Aber von anderen Leuten, die mit Kent gearbeitet haben, sah es nicht so aus, als ob er auf Mike hinkommt. Er war nur sein Boss. Er erwartete am meisten von seinen Mitarbeitern. Also macht es Sinn.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Er wäre hart auf diejenigen, die er mentoriert hat. Aber vielleicht für jemanden mit einem fragilen Ego waren Kents Kritik zu weit. However, I do have to say there were other people who worked with Kent and Mike that said they truly didn't think Mike was the guilty party.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
One colleague of theirs pointed out that Mike, who didn't have a college degree, was extremely grateful to Kent for the opportunity to work there. Others said they only ever saw Kent being supportive of Mike and that Mike would never do anything to hurt Kent. For the record, there have never been any charges pressed against Mike Boyd. And that's how it remains today. Okay, so...
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Selbst wenn sein Name vorgeschlagen wird, ist alles verurteilt.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ich weiß nicht, vielleicht ist es nicht genug. Ich weiß nicht. Hier ist das Ding, wenn er am Abend mit ihm gesprochen hätte, könnte er seine Fingerprinten leichter erklären.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So, as for Charles Erickson, though, once Ryan was released from prison, Charles began working on his own appeals. He filed in December 2018, but was denied because he confessed to the crime. In June 2020, however, he filed for a rehearing, and this time it was granted. And after 18 years in prison, Charles was finally released in January of 2023. 18 years! Two boys.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Just, their life completely changed because Charles recognized himself in that sketch.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ich wusste nicht, was es heißt.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und das ist irgendwo, wo es sich mental sehr schwer wäre.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Das ist wirklich schwer. Außer dem Geheimnis, wer Kent getötet hat, gab es noch einen großen Fragezeichen. Warum auf der Erde würdest du zu einem Mörder verweisen, den du nicht verurteilt hast? Ja. Na, wenn du Charles Erickson heute fragst, sagt er, dass es einige Gründe gibt. Drugs being a big part of it.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Apparently Charles had been battling with addictions since the age of 14 and blackout states were familiar to him. And he often would wake up the next day not knowing what happened the night before and it kind of messed with his head a little bit. But at the time of Kent's death, Charles said, I was honestly in the worst shape of my entire life.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Shortly after that Halloween night, Charles was sent away for psychological testing, where a doctor learned he was suffering from major gaps in his memory. So that compounded with guilt of his addiction and the pain of it. And then seeing that and recognizing him... Charles kind of saw the confession as a way to right his wrongs, in a way.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
It didn't seem like the detectives on the case did much to help Charles. He believed that they fed him information, obviously, to plug the holes for him, which leads to brainwashing and coerced confessions, something Charles believes now that he was a victim of. Unfortunately, it did nothing in the way of providing answers for Kent's family.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And to this day, his case is still open and the investigation continues. But Ryan says there's one big takeaway from all of this. He says, quote, To get charged with a crime you didn't commit is incredibly easy. And to get out of prison for it takes an army. Which is something that's definitely going to cost me and others sleep at night.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And that is the devastating case of Kent Heidholt, whose murder is still unsolved, and Ryan and Charles, who somehow got wrapped up in it and had nothing to do with it.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und dann die Familie von Kent, die durchgingen. Okay, die Jungs haben verurteilt. Oh, warte, du sagst mir, dass sie es nicht getan haben. Okay, der Fall ist wieder offen. Okay, vielleicht... Und Kent ist tot.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Sie werden nur durch den Ringer geschlagen.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ja, extrem verbrechlich. Ja. Alright, you guys, that is our episode and we will see you next time with another one. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Die Idee, ein neues Show zu starten, scheint mir wirklich aggressiv und überbeugend zu sein.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Also jetzt fragt Garrett nicht mal, er spielt es nur langsam.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Aber ich würde es so preferieren, weil dann der Stress, ein neues Show zu starten, nicht auf meinen Schultern liegt.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And I know you're like, geez, Garrett doesn't know what 10 seconds is. But let me remind you, no man on earth knows what 10 seconds is.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Our sources for this episode are The Cinemaholic, Columbia Tribune, Como.com, FreeCharlesErickson.org, KMBC.com, EntertainmentNow.com, Casetext.com, ColumbianMissourian.com, ColumbianHeartbeat.com, NewYorkPost, Change.org, ABCNews.co.com and CBS News.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Okay, so as we've done this show over the years, kind of crazy to say, there is one thing that has definitely come to my mind, the forefront of my mind, more than when I used to not do a true crime show. And that is being wrongly accused of murder.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
und all that that entails getting confused for the suspect being in the wrong place at the wrong time finding yourself in circumstances where you just look like the most obvious answer maybe even when you aren't but i know what you're thinking that's what evidence is for we have a lot of highly advanced ways of knowing whether or not someone's guilty and i wish i could say yeah that that's like a foolproof solution right that calms my nerves
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
But after hearing today's story, I realized, no, it's still a fallible system. Anyone could find themselves sitting in a courtroom being convicted for a murder that they might not have done. And honestly, it could be of someone they've never even met or heard of in their life without a shred of evidence. It actually happens. And today I'm going to tell you a story where that was the case.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So it's 2001 in the city of Columbia, Missouri. This is about halfway between St. Louis and Kansas City. This is where 48-year-old Kent William Heitholt calls home. Kent is sort of everything you picture when you imagine a family man. He's a teddy bear of a guy at six foot three, around 300 pounds, with a beard and glasses. He went to the University of Missouri back in the 70s to study journalism.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And that's where he met his wife, Deborah. And eventually they had two children, Callie and Vince. And with his passion for sports, Kent found work as a sports journalist and had been at a few different publications over the years. But then, in 1996, Kent found where he belonged. At a fairly large paper called the Columbia Daily Tribune. Kent hat nicht nur die großen, lokalen Spiele gespielt.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Er hat auch einen großen Interesse in einigen der kleineren, überlegten Teams in der Region. Er hat ihnen ihren Moment im Spotlight gegeben. Das war etwas, wofür Kent wirklich gefreut wurde. In Wahrheit liebte er einen Untergang, auch außerhalb der Sportwelt.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Diejenigen, die mit Kent gearbeitet haben, sagten, er war immer bereit, einen Mentor oder jemanden, der keine Erfahrung hatte, eine Chance zu geben, wirklich zu erscheinen. especially when he climbed the ranks to sports editor.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So Kent, who actually earned the nickname Haiti from his colleagues, was not only well respected and great at his job, he was said to be very easygoing, good-natured, a father figure both outside and inside the office. Which is why the events after Halloween night in 2001 came as such a shock to everyone who knew him.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So that evening, October 31st, 2001, many of the sports staff riders were working late, getting ready for the upcoming basketball season. Kent was among them, working well past midnight into November 1st. But he knew he was on a clock at 2 a.m. every night. The office computer systems actually shut down.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So Kent and some members of his team that Halloween night worked right up until the clock struck two and then called it a night. Kent packed up his things and went outside to his car. He stopped for a minute to speak with another part-time staff writer who was also getting ready to drive off and call it a night. It was a younger man that Kent had been mentoring, named Mike Boyd.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
So after a quick, forgettable chat, Mike said goodbye to Kent and drove off for the evening. But a few minutes later, two custodial workers named Shauna Ornt and Jerry Trump were outside the building having a cigarette when they saw Kent's car still in the parking lot. Obviously, this is weird because people have already left for the night. He should be long gone.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
But the other thing that they thought was weird was Kent's driver's side door was open. Shauna decides to take a few steps closer to Kent's car to get a better look.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
and that's when she sees two shadowy figures seemingly peek up from behind the car okay now they see each other shauna the custodial worker and these two people so one of them bolts off and the other one stops and spoke to her shauna said they looked her right in the eyes and said quote somebody's hurt And that's when she and Jerry saw Kent lying on the ground next to his car. And he was dead.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
He appeared to have been hit in the head and strangled with his own belt. So in the time he had the conversation with his coworker... What the freak?
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Hey, Leute. Hey. Danke, dass ihr hier seid. Danke, dass ihr hier seid. Danke, dass ihr uns unterstützt. Hey, nicht bluschen. Leute, nicht bluschen, wenn ich euch das sage. Aber ich weiß, dass ihr auf der anderen Seite, wenn ihr das hört, so süß ausseht.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und jetzt ist er verletzt. Sie sieht zwei Leute hinter dem Auto. Einer nimmt sich ab, einer sagt, hey, jemand ist verletzt. Und um 2.26 Uhr sind diese Behörden 9-1-1 anrufen. Also als die Polizei herrschte, fanden sie, dass es eigentlich eine deutliche Anzahl von Beweise hinter der Szene war. Oh. So police have to wonder, is this a robbery? I mean, it's 2 a.m.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Or was there a more personal motive behind this? Because this scene is sort of confusing, okay? Kents watch and the keys to his car are missing, but obviously his car is still there. But his wallet is still sitting inside his open door vehicle. Here's the other thing though. This was a robbery. Why would you rob a six-foot-three, 300-pound guy like Kent? He does not seem like a very easy target.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Luckily for detectives, they have two really strong witnesses who... actually seemed to have interacted with one of the suspects. And Shauna says she got a pretty good look at one of the guys, the one who stopped and talked to her. So she sits down with a sketch artist. She says the guy was white, muscular, average height, with blonde hair, early 20s maybe.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Police release this sketch and nothing comes of it at all. And I'm sad to say that Kent, this family man, this man who was highly adored in his life and community, Sein Mord wird für Jahre kalt.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Ja, aber die Polizei tut nichts. Es gibt keine Anrufe, es gibt keine Begriffe. Für Jahre kommt nichts davon.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Right. Well, for what it's worth, the Columbia Police Department does keep interviewing other people who saw Kent that day. They put together his last day, basically. They interview other writers who were at the office, including Mike Boyd, who was the person who saw him just before he drove away that night.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
But those two witness statements from the custodial workers, well, the police just can't move past them. Because as far as they're concerned, they believe that these two college-aged guys who were hiding behind the car and then essentially just ran off, are probably the suspects they are looking for. Problem is, no one can identify them. Until 2003.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
when someone sees the sketch, okay, so two years later, and thinks, wait a second, is that me? So, on New Year's Eve 2003, there's a party in Colombia, just miles away from where Kent was killed two years prior. It's a bunch of college-aged kids. Many of them are friends from high school looking to celebrate together over the break.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And amongst them are 19-year-old Ryan Ferguson and 19-year-old Charles Erickson. Ryan und Charles haben sich noch nicht ein bisschen gesehen, aber sie haben immer zusammen gefeiert in der Hochschule. In Wahrheit waren sie tatsächlich zusammen gefeiert an der Nacht, an der Kent 2001 gestorben ist. Das war Halloween.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Letztlich hat Charles aber viel über diese Halloweennacht nachgedacht, besonders weil er ein Schild von den Verbrechern in diesem Fall ein paar Monate früher gesehen hatte. Und seitdem hatte er diese seltsamen Träume, okay? Sie sind mehr wie Flashbacks, vielleicht sogar Erinnerungen.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Aber Charles sagt, dass er den Sketch sieht und dann beginnt, Träume zu haben, dass er und sein Freund Ryan Kent am Abend töten.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
Und der Grund, warum das passiert, ist, dass er ziemlich sicher ist, dass der Person in diesem Sketch, der Hauptverdiener in diesem Fall, er ist. Also, das hat Charles so viel gegessen in den letzten Monaten, dass er Ryan tatsächlich an die Party übernimmt. Okay. Er sagt, schau, back in 2001, this guy died, okay? We were partying just a few blocks away from where the murder happened.
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And he said, I did a lot of cocaine. I drank a lot of alcohol that night. And he says, I have no memory. I'm pretty sure I blacked out that night. And he looks at Ryan and he says, dude, did we do it? Like, did we kill someone?
Murder With My Husband
251. Jailed For A Dream - The Kent Heitholt Case
And Ryan's like, dude, no way. It's impossible. I drove you home that night. Ryan just laughs the entire thing off. And he goes into 2004 with practically zero thoughts about it. But Charles, he can't shake it. In fact, he goes to two other friends and says, hey, can I get your advice? However, those two friends take it a little more seriously than Ryan does.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Das war, als er sie zu dem nahesten Krankenhaus rutschte.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Hatte ihre Kleidung weg. Weil sie vorher Sex hatten. Now, on its surface, this story could be plausible. I mean, it could even be honest, considering Mark admitted to them, yeah, we did fight, yeah, we were on drugs, we drank. But the bruising on Kaylee can't be ignored. So they ask him, okay, we understand what you're saying, but the bruising on her body. What happened?
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
And he said, I noticed some bruising on her legs earlier, but that bruising that's on her now wasn't there when I dropped her off, which is a bit shady for two reasons. Number one, the paramedic noticed the bruising the second that Kaylee got there. And number two, Mark actually has bruising on his hands.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Sie entscheiden, dass sie sein Auto suchen werden. Mark ist sehr kooperativ. Und ich möchte wiederholen, dass all das am Krankenhaus passiert ist, wie am nächsten Tag. He doesn't tell them to get a warrant. He just tells them to look around in the car where they discover some marijuana and a gun. But Mark doesn't seem too alarmed by this. This is Texas after all.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Instead, he is just like, okay, I understand you guys are searching my car, but can I get an update on Kaylee, my girlfriend? But the truth is, things are not going well over with Kaylee in the hospital room. By the morning of October 31st, 2017, the next day, doctors bring Kaylee's parents in and tell them that there is no hope for recovery.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
After trying to resuscitate Kaylee seven times over the course of the last day and a half, They let the family know that Kaylee was now brain dead. Which is when her parents were left with an unimaginable decision. They called her closest friends, invited them to the hospital to say goodbye and they signed the papers to fulfill one of Kaylee's wishes to donate her organs to those in need.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
And then that afternoon, Kaylee's family gave her one last kiss as they decided to take her off life support.
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268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
So, after Kaylees passing, the police continued to speak with Mark Howerton on a few separate occasions, because now she has died. And his story remains consistent each time. He says that we went to the festival, saw her ex, we got in a fight, we left, we had make-up sex in the car. And then Kaylee said she wasn't feeling well, we were driving, and then I noticed she wasn't breathing.
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That's when I rushed her to the nearest hospital. And for now, there's nothing the police can charge him for. This isn't exactly looking like a homicide. Bis die Autopsie zurückkommt. Natürlich. Und das ändert alles. Weil die Autopsie nicht sagt, dass Kaylee von hohen Niveaus von Alkohol oder MDMA gestorben ist oder sie vermischt.
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Es sagt, dass Kaylees cause of death war, get this, blunt force trauma to her head.
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Das ist in Ordnung mit dem, was sie auf dem Rest ihres Körpers gefunden haben. Es gibt überall Schmerzen. Und das ist eigentlich etwas, das ich nicht wusste. Aber ich habe es am anderen Tag gelernt und es ist eigentlich etwas, das man in Kindern oder älteren Menschen suchen kann, um zu sehen, ob es die Möglichkeit gibt, dass sie in der Behandlung von jemand anderem verabschiedet werden. Okay.
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Wenn jemand in den Kopf geschossen wird, Oftmals wird ein Symptom von dem in ihren Ohren gebrüht.
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Und das bedeutet nicht, dass sie auf ihrem eigenen Kopf gebrüht werden. Aber wenn du auf ihre Ohren schaust und es gibt Brühe in oder um ihre Ohren, ist das ein Zeichen von Kopftrauma. Und das hat sich tatsächlich mehrere Male benutzt, um zu beweisen, dass Menschen verabschiedet werden, was eigentlich...
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gross and i'm not even going to go there that this is something they look for in children but this is what's happening with kaylee at this point there is bruising in her ears and this is slightly graphic but i do think it's important to understand the severity of these injuries because it's definitely not an overdose and this is a huge part of the case
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So you can fast forward if you don't need all the details. But the autopsy stated that Kaylee's head injury was so substantial that it had actually caused her brain to strip away from her skull and then create a brain bleed. Which then you have to think he's pulling up to the hospital saying, oh, she just fell asleep and her brain is not attached to her skull.
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So once investigators get this information from the autopsy, they are like, what? What? This is not an overdose. This is a homicide. And the bruising, it is not consistent with rough sex, like Mark Howerton had said they'd had. This looked more like a case of extreme physical assault. And once they learn more about who Mark Howerton is, you know, they're like, okay, this is our number one suspect.
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Things start coming together pretty fast. Let's get into the real Mark Howerton. Let me start by saying that Mark is a pretty big guy. He's tall, he's muscly, to the point where some of Kaylee's friends even said that they thought he was on steroids. So the thought of him attacking Kaylee and doing that amount of damage, even in a confined space like a car,
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Doesn't actually sound that impossible, especially after you hear what her friends had to say about Kaylee and Mark's relationship. Because it turns out Kaylee wasn't in this one for the long haul. She did seem to still have feelings for Jet and she was kind of already one foot out of the relationship with Mark by the time of the music festival.
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Sie hat tatsächlich ein paar Freunde darüber gesprochen, dass sie mit Mark verabschiedet ist, aber sie hat auch passiv erwähnt, dass sie ein bisschen Angst hatte, es zu tun, als ob sie Angst hatte, diese Gespräche mit ihm zu haben. Und der Grund dafür, warum, wurde ein bisschen klarer, ein paar Tage bevor sie zu diesem Musikfestival gingen. Also das war Oktober 15, 2017.
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Kailies Roommate Morgan Sampson told police after her death that on that night Mark came to campus to hang out with Kailie. Remember he doesn't go to the college. It seems like Mark got super drunk that day and then showed up that night and began throwing up off of Kailies dorm room balcony.
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So, at this point Morgan invited Kaylee to a frat party and told her she should just leave Mark behind to sober up, cool off, like he's already too far gone to party. Jetzt ist Mark nicht cool damit, weil Jett Teil der Fraternität ist, die dieses Frat-Party hostet.
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Er fühlt sich, dass Kaylee nicht unbedingt über diese Verbrechung ist. Aber Kaylee und Morgan entscheiden, trotzdem zu der Party zu gehen. Und sie sind im Grunde so wie Mark. Du gehst nicht mal hierher. Du musst nach Hause bleiben und aufwachsen. Du bist nicht eingeladen. So, Mark stays in Kaylee's room and while she's out, her neighbors hear a bunch of loud banging coming from her bedroom.
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So, they actually call campus police. They're like, hey, there's something going on over there. So, police show up, they knock on the door and they find Kaylee. mark they ask him hey we need to take a look inside the apartment he says no but the police are like okay okay we're campus police we're coming inside anyways and what they find is that the balcony door to this apartment has been broken
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Und alle von Kaylees Kleidung von innen in ihrem Wohnzimmer wurden vom Balkon entfernt. Und auf die Bäume draußen. Auch ihr Laptop wurde vom Balkon entfernt. Achtung, Mark geht nicht nach Trinity, also sind die Kampuspolizei... Okay, you can't ever step foot here again. Like, you are not allowed on campus. Now, as far as I can tell, nothing happened to Kaylee that night.
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It seems like police told him, get off campus immediately before Kaylee even came back to her dorm room. But I know that at this point, she tells her ex-boyfriend, Jet... dass ich diesen neuen Mann, Mark, verabschiede und ich habe Angst vor ihm. Ich will mit ihm verabschieden, aber sein Verhalten zeigt mir einfach, dass es gefährlich sein könnte.
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Und ein anderer Freund ihres sagte, dass sie tatsächlich auf Kaylee begonnen hat, Schmerzen zu sehen, nach dem Tag.
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Und als sie Kaylee darüber verabschiedet hat, wie, hey, warum hast du plötzlich Schmerzen auf dich? Kaylee verabschiedete, dass sie von Mark waren. Also nachdem er das auf dem Balkon macht, wird er dann physisch violent mit ihr.
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Und ich werde sagen, dass ich den Hinweis bekommen habe, dass es ein wenig von der Begrüßung der Gefängnis war, dass Kaylee noch in Kontakt mit Jett ist. Wie war das fair zu markieren? Was denn? Blablabla. Lass mich etwas klar machen. Wenn du mit jemandem in Angst bist, gehst du meistens zu Leuten, die du vertraust, die du glaubst, dass sie dir helfen können. Ja.
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ein ehemaliger Freundeskreis könnte das leicht machen, er kümmert sich um dich, er ist ein anderer Typ, wie er weiß, wie es ist, in einer Beziehung mit dir zu sein, es ist wirklich nicht so verrückt, dass das, wofür sie zu Hilfe kommt, also möchte ich einfach nicht auf diese Straße gehen, weil sie in einer gefährlichen Situation ist und dann hat ein anderer Freund der Polizei gesagt, dass Kaylee in ihnen über einen Zeitpunkt
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Mark hat ihren Kopf gefangen und ihn in ein Autowindow geschlagen.
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By the way, I mean... Das ist eine Form von Vergewaltigung. Und Manipulation.
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Und auch wenn jemand so niedrig ist, bis zu dem Punkt, wo das, wie sie sich fühlen.
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Nur zu sagen. Nein. Ich meine. Wenn du helfen kannst und andere Menschen involviert. Aber als das Festival umgekehrt wurde. Oktober 29. Kaylee ist literally on her last leg. Sie hat Jett erzählt. Okay. Und rechtlich so, weil Jett sagte, nachdem er mit Kaylee am Festival rannte, sah er Mark und Kaylee kämpfen. Offensichtlich ist er festgestellt, dass sie sich trennen.
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I said it before and I'll say it again. I don't really know how golf works because whenever I go with Garrett, he uses like 10 balls.
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Und es sah so aus, als ob Kaylee versuchen würde, wegzukommen. Aber Mark hat seine Arme um ihre Schulter geschnitten. Und dann begann er, sie zu den Ausflügen zu fahren. So, now with this eyewitness testimony against Mark Howerton and the incredibly damning autopsy report, police feel like they have more than enough to press charges.
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Like, cause he's rageful and egotistical and can't be told no.
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You should have the right in this world to break up with anyone whenever and for whatever reason you want. And it doesn't mean it's not going to emotionally hurt someone, but you also have that freedom as a person.
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He just doesn't like his shot and then puts a new one down and shoots again.
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Nun, es dauert fast zwei Jahre, bis Mark zur Behandlung geht. Also im Dezember 2019 ist die Behandlung bereit für eine Vergewaltigung. Sie argumentieren bei der Behandlung, dass am Abend des 29.
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Oktober, nach der Versuchung, mit Mark zu verbrechen, Kaylee forcungsvoll zurückgezogen wurde zu seinem Auto, wo sie von ihm sexuell verletzt wurde und dann so schlimm verletzt wurde, dass sie das fädelische Gehirn verletzt hat. Und sie zeigen dem Gericht, wie schlimm es war, wenn Fotos von Kaylee im Krankenhaus genommen wurden. Und wenn es um die Verteidigung geht, sind sie nicht so schnell.
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Sie argumentieren, dass niemand gesehen hat, was zwischen Kaylee und Mark in dem Auto am Tag passiert ist. Und hier ist das Ding. Jett wird als Beobachter für die Prosekution angerufen, weil er ursprünglich den Polizisten gesagt hat, dass er sah, dass er sie ausführt.
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of the music festival but when he testifies he doesn't say that on the stand this time he's like no i just saw the two of them walk away i didn't really see her being like forced away with him which is honestly just like a technicality like yeah big difference though not saying it makes him innocent or honest but it but the defense i mean they can use that i mean anything that creates doubt will be used right
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Why Jett changed his tune during the trial is kind of a mystery. Maybe he just wasn't, he was exaggerating the day that he talked to police. And then when he was under oath, he was like, I should probably just tell the truth.
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though the defense had a pretty convincing argument for that too. They said that the bruising was caused by the hospital, by Kayleigh's medical team, who tried to resuscitate her seven times in an effort to save her life.
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For this, they point to a broken rib on the autopsy and the defense leans into the MDNA aspect of the story, that while the autopsy didn't state it as a cause of death, it was in her system at the time and some experts called on by the defense argued it could have definitely played a role.
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So after 10 hours of deliberations, the jury returned to the courtroom and they claim that they couldn't agree.
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And they're like, we're gonna find it. Like, we want justice for our daughter and we are getting to work. Kaylees' stepfather Lawrence starts by poring over these autopsy photos. And what he notices is a small little injury above Kaylees' right ear. And then he notices a few more injuries.
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Alright, shall we get into this week's episode? Yes. Let's do it. Our sources for this episode are Also, wenn ich an die typische College-Erfahrung denke, kommen mir viele Dinge auf den Sinn. Wie das herausfordernde Kursarbeit, neue Freunde zu finden, neue Hobbys zu finden, vielleicht ein bisschen Party.
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Now, what's frustrating about this is that Mark Howerton actually admitted in a recorded interview with police that he had done something similar to this before. He told them that at one point they had gotten into a fight in his car and he had pushed Kaylee's head into a window. Now whether or not this detail was included in the first trial, I have no idea.
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But I know Katie's parents weren't about to let this slip through the cracks. Like he's already kind of done this motion and movement with her. So they take things a step further. They learn that Mark actually sold his card. Back in 2018. And they do a search for the VIN number, track it down to the new owners.
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Once they find them, Allison and Lawrence literally go up to them and say, can we please buy this car from you? We believe our daughter was murdered in this car. And we need it. I mean, how do you say that? How do you say no to that? So they buy the car and drive it home. And they hire experts to help them prove their theory.
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In fact, they even hire a PI to make a reenactment video in case they need it for court. They actually bring in two actors similar in stature, like in weight, to Kaylee and Mark. And they have them play out a couple scenarios of how the injuries from Kayleens autopsy pictures could have occurred in the car. So come June 2023, it's time for Mark Howartons case to get a second trial.
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And this time, Kayleigh's family is like, we've done a lot more work this time. We are feeling optimistic. For starters, Mark hasn't been doing himself any favors since he got off the first time and has been waiting for this date because he's been posting ridiculous things on the internet, saying stuff like, quote, come at me legally, I will beat you.
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But it's possible Mark was really feeling the pressure because now he wasn't just facing charges of first-degree murder and sexual assault. He had actually tacked on more charges like aggravated assault and criminally negligent homicide.
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Instead, experts see that from the cell phone data this time around, it's more likely that Mark drove around with Kaylee in his car for a long time between stopping and taking her to the hospital.
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Aber ich denke, eine der größten Teile der College-Erfahrung, zumindest für mich, ist ehrlich gesagt das Dating. I mean, I found my Garrett during my college. Finding your Mr. or Mrs. Forever or your Mr. or Mrs. Right. Either way, exploring new relationships sort of comes with the territory in college.
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Get out of here. Get the F out of here. There's no way.
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But anyways, Mark is given 20 years in prison. Oh, okay. So, I mean, I mean, I take some life probably, but for just aggravated assault causing serious bodily harm, it could have been way less. Oh wow, 10.000 Dollar ist cool. Ja.
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In 2019 hat Alison die Katie's Calling Organisation entwickelt und damit die Clear Alert gemacht. Es funktioniert genau wie Amber Alert, nur es ist für Menschen zwischen 18 und 64 Jahre alt. Also im Grunde eine Amber Alert für ältere Menschen. And in September of 2019, Allison got the program approved by a Texas legislator. But Allison isn't done trying to keep Kaylee's legacy alive.
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Her non-profit, Kaylee's Calling, has been traveling around Texas trying to educate law enforcement on how to properly utilize this alert. The hope is that everyone in the community can come together to prevent a crime like Kaylee's from ever happening again. If you would like to learn more about Kaylee's Calling or donate to the cause, you can visit kayleescalling.org.
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It's part of finding ourselves, learning who we are, what we want, what we don't want for the rest of our lives. But dating a new person always comes with risks. Are we going to catch feelings for someone that maybe we're not ready for? Are we going to get our hearts broken? Are they going to get jealous or bitter if it doesn't work out?
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What we rarely stop to consider is how this person might react if things don't go the way they were hoping for in the relationship. Also, heute gehen wir nach San Antonio, Texas, um 19-jährige Kaylee Mandadee zu treffen. 2017 ist Kaylee ein Junge an der Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas. Es ist eine liberalen Kunstschule mit ungefähr 2.500 Studenten.
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You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
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Und Kaylee studiert dort einen Kommunikationsmajor. Sie ist 19 Jahre alt und ist gerade in ihrer College-Karriere. Und in vielen Fällen passt Kaylee dem Modus eines all-amerikanischen Mädels. Als sie erwachsen war, war sie populär in der Schule. Sie war ein Vorsitzender, aber jemand, der ein großes Herz hatte und immer sehr warm war. Sie war vertraut. Sie war offen und ehrlich mit den Leuten.
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And friends said she always had a huge smile on her face, both on and off the football field when she was cheering. Und Kaylee brachte diese Radiance mit ihr nach Trinity College. Dort machte sie viele Freunde schnell. Sie hat die Trinity-Cheerleading-Squad eingeführt, was ihr richtig zu Hause gefühlt hat. Und sie wurde ein Mitglied eines der Sororitäten auf der Kampus.
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Aber Kaylee war auch eine Person mit viel Depth, weil sie wirklich klug war. Wahrscheinlich, weil sie von einigen wirklich intelligenten Leuten geboren wurde. Ihr Vater war ein internationaler Geschäftsführer für MGM Resorts. Und ihre Mutter war Wissenschaftlerin. Ihr Großvater arbeitete für NASA.
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Und als das einzige Kind, die Kailis Eltern sichergestellt haben, dass sie sie für Erfolg setzten. But as we know, college is an exploratory chapter in a young person's life. It's a time that will not only shape the future of your career, but the future kind of of what person you're going to become.
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And sometimes that means sowing wild oats and trying out new things and new people, which was what Kaylee was definitely embracing going into her sophomore year at Trinity. Bis zu diesem Punkt hatte Kaylee einen Mann gedatet, namens Jett Burcham. Sie hat ihn seit den letzten neun Monaten auf und ab gedatet. Jett war ein Fußballspieler von der Trinidad, und er war selbst im griechischen Leben.
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Also haben er und Kaylee zusammen, der Begründer, ein bisschen wie ein ideales College-Grupp. Sie haben sich im Januar 2017 getroffen und haben sich im Frühjahr des Frühjahrs gedatet. But by the time summer rolled around, Jet and Kaylee were on the outs. And by September, when the two returned to campus, Kaylee had sort of soured on the relationship.
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Now, going into sophomore year, she was looking for something more serious, someone she could make things exclusive with. But Jet just was not into that idea. So Kaylee was kind of over it by the time she returned to campus for her sophomore year. Sie war bereit, Jett in der Vergangenheit zu verlassen und zu sehen, ob es jemanden gab, der sich wirklich mehr zu ihr vertreten wollte.
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Now, Mark wasn't actually a student at Trinity, but he was there all the time visiting his friends. He actually lived three hours away in Houston at this time. But Kaylee might have liked that Mark was a former high school baseball star, another fellow athlete, which seems to be her type.
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And things seemed hot and heavy pretty quick for Mark and Kaylee, even though he knew she was fresh out of a relationship. But that didn't seem to stop Mark. Instead, four weeks after they started dating, he invited Kaylee to be his plus one to a concert. It was at a music festival in San Antonio on October 29, 2017. That morning, Mark picked Kaylee up from campus.
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The two seemed ready for a day of partying and to blow off some steam. But before they got to the stadium where the festival was being held, there was something they wanted to try. So they pulled over at a car wash around the corner and took some MDMA. The two got to the concert, saw a few bands, met up with a few friends and had a few drinks. They honestly spent the afternoon dancing and laughing.
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Did you? Well, now you got me questioning things. Not like I've ever done it, but I'm pretty sure MDMA is Molly.
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Es ist Molly. Ich werde mich nicht bedauern. Ich war so sicher darüber, dass ich das nicht sogar angeschaut habe. Ja, ich weiß nicht. Also, sie spielten den Nachmittag, tanzen und lachen. Aber um 3.45 Uhr wurde es ein bisschen seltsam an diesem Musikfestival. Weil das ist, als Kaylee ihren Ex-Verein aus dem Frühjahrsjahr, dem Fußballspieler, Jett, reist.
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I can only imagine how weird this must have been, being with your new boyfriend and running into your old one. I mean, the two supposedly knew about each other. But I would think when you have added Molly and alcohol to that equation, it probably makes the emotions you're feeling a little bit heightened. And while they don't do much more than just say hi, from what I can tell,
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It definitely ruins the day for Kaylee, because only an hour or so later, Kaylee and Mark actually leave the music festival early. They get into Marks Mercedes and drive off. But come the next morning, this is October 30th, 2017, Kaylees Freunde werden überrascht.
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Ihr Freund Taylor, der seit dem Frühjahr der Highschool-Jahre mit Kaylee zusammengearbeitet ist, wacht auf, um zu bemerken, dass sie ihre Morgen-Snapchat-Message von Kaylee nicht bekommen hat. Das erste, was sie jeden Tag, als sie aufgewacht sind, gemacht haben, war, eine Snapchat-Message zu einem anderen zu schicken.
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Taylor geht nicht zu Trinity mit Kaylee, sie ist in einer anderen Schule nahe, aber Kaylees Freunde in Trinity werden sich auch um sie kümmern, weil Kaylee nicht auf eine Veranstaltungsveranstaltung nach dem Konzert anwesend war. Sie sollte also das Musikfestival machen und dann zur Veranstaltungsveranstaltung gehen. Sie haben versucht, sie zu anrufen und zu schicken, seitdem sie es verpasst hat.
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Now, Kaylee hasn't answered her phone or any of her messages since she left the music festival, but people looking for her next tried Mark, her boyfriend, and he has answered. See, one of her sorority sisters named Morgan Sampson tried to FaceTime Kaylee late on the night of the 29th. Kaylee didn't answer her phone. Mark did.
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And he told her, hey, Kaylee can't talk right now, and then just hung up. So that really disturbed Kaylee's sorority sisters so much so that when they haven't seen Kaylee the next day, they go to the police to try and file a report and get a wellness check on Kaylee. And for some reason, the police tell the women, that's not an option yet.
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So meanwhile, they're begging the police, like, please, can you put an Amber Alert for our friend? Maybe she's been kidnapped. And police are like, I'm sorry, but your friend is too old for the Amber Alert program. That only applies to people till age 17. And they're like, oh, gosh, well, no one's answering. Mark did that weird thing. I mean, you know where this story is going.
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He knows where Kaylee is. Es ist kein Geheimnis, denn um 10 Uhr am Abend am 29. Oktober, etwa fünf Stunden nachdem er und Kaylee das Festival verlassen, kam er zu einem Krankenhaus in Lolling, Texas, das ein bisschen über eine Stunde außerhalb von San Antonio ist. Paramedik Cheryl Lane war direkt vor Marks schwarzen Mercedes, als es sich auf die Emergency-Einschaltkante drückte.
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Oh mein Gott, Alter. But Cheryl is more concerned with getting the girlfriend out, Kaylee, and administering CPR. Now as other medics rush out and help Kaylee inside, Mark starts frantically explaining that he and Kaylee had taken Molly at a music festival and when they left, she passed out.
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So for the time being, all of the doctors and nurses are actually treating Kaylee's condition as a drug overdose. They insert a tube into her chest to help her breathe. They put IVs in both of her arms. And they send in a sexual assault nurse to photograph Kaylee, just in case. Oh mein Gott.
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Und vertraut uns, wir wissen, wir werden nur deine Leben zerstören, weil du nie einen Podcast besser als diesen finden wirst. Und du wirst aus Episoden ausgehen.
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bridge did she like have a terrible fall what could have done this much damage was it the amount of times they tried to administer cpr on her and the police are curious about this too because at the same time they are actually in another room interrogating Mark Howerton, der Freund. Sie wollen jeden Sekunden wissen, was passiert ist, als er am Krankenhaus gekommen ist.
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Denn wenn du mit jemandem aufstehst, der wahrscheinlich überdosen ist, aber alles überbrüht hat, werden sie die Polizei anrufen. Und sie bekommen viele der Gespräche, die sie mit Mark haben, an Bodycam-Footage. So they bring Mark to the quietest place they can find in the hospital. Okay, this is happening right on.
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Okay, the hospital staff calls the police, the police come and they're just trying to make sure everything's good.
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Love it. So they kind of bring Mark to a quieter place in the hospital. That happens to be the chapel. And Mark starts off the conversation seemingly pretty honest with them. He says, yeah, we took MDMA. We had some drinks before going into the festival. He mentions that they ran into Kaylee's ex, Jet, at around 3.45 p.m.
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He tells them that after this encounter, him and Kaylee actually got into a bit of an argument. Mark says he told Kaylee that Jet... Das war nicht wert der Zeit. Sie brauchte nur, um ihn zu übernehmen und den Festival zu genießen. Und der Kampf wurde so heiß, dass sie einfach die Konzertpartei zuerst verlassen wollten.
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268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Aber als sie in sein Auto kamen, beklagt er, dass sich die Dinge langsam gelassen haben. Er erzählt der Polizei, dass sie sich in ein Gasstation-Parking-Lot gedreht haben. Und das war, als sie angefangen haben, Make-up-Sex im Auto zu haben. But Mark admits to the police that this sex was not loving and tender. He does say it was a bit rough. There was some choking, but it was 100% consensual.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Wir lieben dich. Das führt uns zu Gerrits Teil des Shows, wo er über Hot Tamales spricht.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Und er sagt den Polizisten, das ist auch nicht weit weg von dem, wie es meistens zwischen uns im Bett ist. Er sagte, das ist eigentlich normal für uns.
Murder With My Husband
268. The Murder of Cayley Mandadi
Dann sagt er, nachdem sie den Sex beendet haben, kamen sie zurück auf die Straße und fingen an, für sein Haus in Houston zu gehen, etwa eine dreihundertstündige Drehzeit. Und auf der Route begann Kaylee zu sagen, dass sie sich nicht gut fühlte. Sie schlief im Passagierseite und kurz nach dieser Drehzeit sagt Mark, dass er bemerkt hat, dass Kaylee nicht atmet.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So remember how I mentioned the last bar Germaine was at, the Badlander Bar, had security cameras set up outside. It was basically pointed in an alleyway next to the bar. And on the night Germaine went missing, she was seen talking to a group of people out there.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And obviously we know that one unidentified man that has been confirmed as the guy that was kind of following her around all night is there.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So in this footage, I mean, if you're just basing it kind of off body language, it's almost as if Jermaine is kind of trying to shake that man that's following her. Like she's trying to insert herself into other people, hoping that he gets the message that she's like not wanting to be with him. Sie gehen schnell hinter ihr, aber sie können nicht wirklich mit ihrem Geschwindigkeit aufhören.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Nun, glücklicherweise, was die Fotos zeigen, ist ein großer Gruppe von Leuten, die Germaine die Nacht bevor sie verschwunden hat. Also, das sind Leute, die vielleicht die Gespräche, die sie hatte, und wer dieser mysteriöse Sky war. Also, die Detektiven gehen nach Badlander und beginnen, jemanden zu fragen, der Germaine die Nacht vorher gesehen hätte.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Und sie finden heraus, dass die Person, die Germaine gesehen hat, war ihr Ex-Verein und Vater ihrer beiden Kinder, Michael. Von dem, was ich sehe, bekommen sie nicht viel Kontext aus diesen Wissensinterviews, außer Michael's Identität. Aber es ist definitiv genug, um ihn in die Station zu rufen für ein Interview.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Now, Michael admits, yes, he was out with Jermaine that night. And after they left the bars, they got into his Dodge pickup truck. So this is more than police have learned this entire time. They now are getting from Michael where Jermaine went when she left the camera. He says he drove her three minutes down the street to a little grocery store called the Orange Street Food Farm.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
This is just before 1 a.m. Germaine apparently told him she was meeting a friend named Cassidy who lived right around the corner there and she was planning to actually spend the night at Cassidy's house. So Michael drops her off and he says she hopped out and that was the last time he saw her.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
But when police look into this Cassidy person, they can't find anyone by that name that Jermaine knows, which is extremely suspicious for one very good reason. And it's because Michael and Jermaine had a pretty dark past. So when police start looking into their relationship, they find an old report from April 14th of 2013.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
It was filed in Sanders County, which the reservation is on just outside of Missoula. And according to these documents, Michael hat Jermaine drei Mal in 2013 auf diese Nacht geschlagen. Oh mein Gott. Er hat also verurteilt, dass er verurteilt wurde. Er hat keine Zeit im Gefängnis verbracht. Stattdessen wurde er verurteilt und 40 Stunden Domestic Violence-Treatment gegeben.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Das ist, weshalb es wichtig ist, emotionale Regulierung zu lernen. Es ist verrückt, einfach direkt zu Gewalt zu gehen.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Ja, also er ist auch gesagt, dass er nicht ermöglicht ist, irgendeine Feuerwehr zu besitzen. Okay. But this is just the tip of the iceberg. With such few consequences, the abuse continues. The following year, in June or July of 2014, it happens again. This time, Jermaine and Michael have a fight at her aunt's house.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Michael throws her on the hood of a van, hits her four times in the face and head, and then tosses her on the ground and spits on her. He's arrested again, and from what I can tell, there is no real consequences. Okay. Okay. So we're obviously seeing a pattern here now and it keeps getting worse to the point where Germaine isn't even trying to hide it anymore.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
In May of 2017, she posts a YouTube video about her relationship with Michael and she talks about how he's abusive and how he continues to pressure her to stay together or he's going to go to court and try to get full custody of their kids. She says the last time she refused a kiss from him, Michael threw her against a pull-up bar and choked her.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Now, the worst incident might have been the one shortly after that post. Jermaine and Michael were driving home from a concert when apparently he pushed Jermaine out of his moving vehicle on Interstate 90. Michael wird wieder verabschiedet und nichts passiert. Die Anzeigen werden ausgeschlossen. Laut einigen Gründen bricht das Paar nachher in 2017 gut zusammen.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Aber in der Mitte von 2018, nur ein paar Monate bevor Jermaine verschwindet, folgt Michael auf einen alten Versuch. Und er entscheidet, Jermaine in die Kürze zu nehmen, um die Beihilfe ihrer beiden Kinder. Now, here's Michael. He is from a white family. And honestly, he has a lot more resources than Jermaine's family. So he has a lawyer.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Jermaine can't afford one, which is probably why a judge ends up ruling in his favor. He says Michael has residential custody, but Jermaine can have her kids Monday through Wednesday and then every other weekend.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Our sources for this episode are dailymail.com, uncovered.com, kpax.com, thesun.com, cbsnews, dailymontanan.com, greatfallstribune.com, oxygen.com, indianlaw.org, gbvlearningnetwork.ca, rollingstone.com, newyorker.com, katykurek.com, vogue.com and nativehope.org. In 2016, the National Crime Information Reporting Center released a staggering statistic.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Well, he's the one who has a lawyer. She showed up without one.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Let's look at the dang paperwork, man. And also the judge says, and because he's getting majority of custody, you also have to pay child support.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
$800 a month is what she's ordered to pay. The one who showed up without a lawyer because she couldn't afford it.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
The police are looking at all this and they're like, oh, sheesh. The last person to be seen with Jermaine is Michael. And there's an ugly history between the two of them. There's a lot of domestic abuse. But here's what police find after speaking with Michael. That Cassidy person that Michael said Jermaine brought up. That might have been a name that Jermaine really did give Michael at some point.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Because she didn't want him to know where she was really going later that evening. Okay. So naturally, when police learn about Jacob, they question him as well. And he says he met Jermaine on a dating app. The two of them had a pretty strong connection. Things were going really well. But he says he was actually out of town on the night Jermaine disappeared and he can prove it.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
He says, yeah, Jermaine and I were texting that evening. She asked if she could go stay at my apartment, even though I was gone. And he said it was fine. But around 1 a.m., he called Jermaine to check on her, presumably to see if she got inside his apartment okay.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
He said the line rang a few times, then it seemed like someone purposely ignored the call and sent it to voicemail, and he never heard from her again. So with Jacobs' alibi, they're able to rule him out as a suspect pretty quickly, but he offers up something that puts the spotlight back on Michael.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Jakob sagt, Jermaine hat ihr gesagt, dass sie den Tag bevor sie verflucht war, sie und Michael wieder kämpfen hatten. Er hat an ihr geschrien, hat gefragt, mit wem sie verheiratet war, hat gesagt, er wollte wieder zusammen sein, was würde Sinn machen, warum Jermaine zu Michael diese Nacht verliebt hätte und gesagt hätte, dass sie mit einer Person namens Cassidy bleibe.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Only police learned Jermaine, or at least Jermaine's cell phone, actually never made it into Jacob's apartment that night. When police start collecting data from Jermaine's cell phone, they find that the call Jacob made to her on the night she disappeared was silenced, just like he thought. And they also learned that between the hours of 2 a.m. and 10 a.m.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
that morning, her cell phone actually traveled back to the area near the Flathead Reservation, specifically to a place called Ivaro Hill. Und die Zelle hatte Tauern da drüben. Und weißt du, wer die gleichen Tauern hatte, während der Nacht?
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And that's because he lives in this area. So Michael finds himself back in front of detectives because he says, I dropped her off and she went to sleep at Cassidy's, but really her cell phone silenced a call from her boyfriend and then traveled back basically to where Michael lives.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So they're like, hey, Michael, why did her phone ping at your house basically later that night? And he's like, oh, she left her phone in my car. And he's like, I actually tried to go through her text messages when she left it, but I couldn't crack the code. When that happened, he said he decided to toss it out of his truck on Highway 12.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So he's like, she leaves it in my car. I try to open it up. I can't figure out the password, so I decide to just throw it out.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
He says he even remembers the mile marker. He says it was 94. Now you gotta think. This is pretty suspicious for this young woman to forget her cell phone in her ex-boyfriend's car on the night she vanished. But to offer up where he left it down to the mile mark, that seems almost too good to be true. Which it is, because when the police go to that mile marker, there's no cell phone.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
That year, there were 5,712 missing women and girls from the American Indian and Alaska Native community. However, only 116 of those cases were logged in the US Department of Justice's database.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So in late June, officers pay a visit to Michael DeFrance's home in Ivaro Hill, where he presumably still lives with his parents. Because while Michael's not there, they do speak with his mother. And she says Jermaine has never been to their house, which feels kind of unlikely considering they dated for years and share two kids together. But she also says her son loved Jermaine.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
He wanted to get back together with her, which I suppose was her reason for thinking that he was innocent.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Yeah. So police actually decide to come back a week later with a search warrant. And while they comb the house for any sign of foul play or other personal property belonging to Jermaine, they don't find anything. And over the next few months, though, police believe they know the area.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Ja, sie denken, dass das wahrscheinlich dort ist, wo die Beweise oder das Körper versteckt ist. Es ist eine ziemlich stark verbreitetes Gebiet, wo Michael lebt. Es gibt viel Wildnis. Es ist ein Ort, das Hunderten von Quadratmetern betrifft, wo ein Tier vielleicht zu den Remänen kommen könnte, bevor ein Mensch sie überhaupt across sie kommen würde.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Actually using helicopters and aerial surveillance would be a waste of time because of how dense the brush is in this area. And while searching, they do find a lot of bones, but none of them are human. And police are like, listen, this is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
But after hearing the evidence, Jermaine's family feels confident that this is probably her final resting place, which is why they put up a billboard in the area. It's one with Jermaine in a baseball cap. It's a screen grab from one of her last social media posts that she made on the day she disappeared.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Und obwohl die Polizei nicht offiziell Michael the Francis-Suspect gewählt hat, halten sie ihm in den nächsten paar Monaten ein kleines Auge. Und im Oktober zurückkehren sie zu seinem Haus mit einem anderen Suchvermögen. Und dieses Mal finden sie etwas, das für Michael ein bisschen problematisch ist. Sie entdecken eine große Kollektion von Waffen.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Now, I don't know if they missed this the first time or if this was some kind of strategy, because if you remember, ever since that 2013 charge for domestic abuse, Michael is not allowed to own any firearms and cops pull a lot out of his house. I mean, seven different weapons, tons of ammunition.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Und wenn sie Michael gefragt haben, ob er wusste, dass das Teil seines Ausgleichs war, sagt er, oh, ich wusste nicht wirklich, dass ich nicht wusste, dass ich keine Waffen haben sollte. Es scheint auch, während dieser Suche, dass sie etwas anderes finden. Mit einem Team von Kadaver-Tüten, haben sie mehrere Items aufgeführt, die ausgesucht wurden, und diese wurden in den Krimi-Lab gesendet.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Das Problem ist, dass kein Teil des DNA konklusiv mit Germaine verbunden sein könnte. Und sie arrestieren Michael nicht an dem Tag. Von dem, was ich sehe, nehmen sie seine Waffen einfach weg.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
This community of women is 12 times more likely to be murdered and go missing than any other demographic in the US and Canada. I mean, think about that. That is a scary number. And while we've covered murdered and missing indigenous women's cases in the past, today's story is a perfect example of why we have a lot of progress to make as a nation. Because over 4,000 of these cases have run cold.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And with all of this happening, I mean, they could have arrested Michael for those guns. For sure. They chose not to. Maybe because they're thinking, we'll just arrest him for his disappearance.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So, because of this, Germaines case runs cold and her family and her community are left to continue the investigation pretty much on their own. More billboards are put up all over Montana calling for any information on Germaine. The Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribal Council increased the reward for that information to $10,000.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And just when it seems like Jermaine's story might be another MMIW case that falls into obscurity, an indigenous Cree reporter from the Okanese First Nation in Saskatchewan, Canada, swoops in to make sure that that doesn't happen. And her name is Connie Walker, and she creates a podcast called Where is she? Yeah. So in July 2021, after this podcast has gained a lot of eyes on it.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Police finally just arrest Michael. Oh, I'm just like it took this journalist to come in, which like, yes, we've seen happen before. When you put pressure on a case, police are going to be more likely to try and do something about it. But it's just it's sucky.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Sie verabschieden ihn nicht für etwas, was mit Germaine zu tun hat. Sie entscheiden, ihn für die Behandlung dieser Feuerwände zu verabschieden. Das war drei Jahre nach dem Faktum.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Ich meine, ich glaube so. Es ist einfach verrückt. Sie sagen, wir versuchen einfach, alle glücklich zu machen und ihn für die Feuerwände zu verabschieden. And I'm not saying they need to arrest him for Jermaine's disappearance, because like you said, there's not much evidence, but just maybe, you know, fire up the investigation again.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So he finally gets his day in court in April of 2023, and he is found guilty on four counts of firearms-related felony charges. And in September 2023, he is sentenced to 21 months in prison. He files an appeal that same day, and as far as I'm aware, Michael has yet to serve any real jail time as he awaits the results of his appeals.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Even though she was last seen with Michael, a very domestic, abusive relationship. His phone was still pinging in his car. He said he threw it out. They've never found the phone. They've never found the body. It was pinging back at his house.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And meanwhile, those billboards of Jermaine, they remain along the roads and highways throughout parts of Montana, just waiting for the moment that someone comes forward with more evidence, maybe a smoking gun in Jermaine's case, a weapon, DNA, a body. Wow. Wow. Could the body have actually been on the property? Did he move it during those 10 days?
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
But these are the devastating realities behind a lot of cases involving missing and murdered indigenous women. Jermaine's Aunt Valinda hinted in an interview that she isn't exactly surprised by how the case has been handled. She said, quote, MMIW isn't something that just started. It honestly has happened since colonization and we've all kept so quiet about it.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
I think the world is finally realizing what Native American go through. Sie weist auf, für Germaine zu kämpfen und die Stimme zu sein, die sie nicht mehr hat. Aber wirklich, ich denke, diese Stimme kann geäußert werden. Wir könnten nicht auf dem Boden sein. Wir könnten nicht Germaine finden oder diese MMIW-Fälle lösen. Aber wir können sie immer noch aufmerksam machen. Wir können sie aufmachen.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Wir können Druck auf die Autoritäten legen. Und ehrlich gesagt, That is probably our biggest responsibility. My biggest responsibility as a storyteller, a journalist, a podcaster. That is how I can help make a difference. And you guys listening and talking about these cases make a difference just doing that as well.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And they managed to do so even when officials have a pretty good lead on a primary suspect. Which is why Germaine Charlot's case is one that will leave you asking, what do we have to do to start getting justice for these MMIW women? So today we're headed to Montana to the Flathead Reservation. This is about 40 miles outside of Missoula.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
However, if you do have any information regarding Jermaine's case, you could provide the missing piece by calling the Missoula Police Department at 406-396-7000. 3, 2, 1, 7, and that is the unsolved missing case of Jermaine.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
He's not even in prison yet. He appealed. He appealed that gun charge and they're still waiting for results. So he hasn't even served a day.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Well also I think that if we could get some attention, some larger scale searches going on in the area by his house, because unless he moved her during those 10 days, the phones were last pinging in that area.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And again, there's so much wildlife there. The body could be scattered.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Honestly, I obviously don't have kids, but like if my son's girlfriend and baby mama, and I mean that in not a derogatory way, like legitimate baby mama, went missing and her phone was last pinging with my son's phone on or near my property, I will be sitting his little booty down and saying, Talk. Talk. Because like, I still love you, but this is the right thing to do.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Alright you guys, thank you for listening to this case today and we will see you next time with another episode. I love it. Goodbye.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
This is where Jermaine Charleau, a member of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribe, grows up. Now on the reservation, the phrase, it takes a village, was taken pretty literally. So when Jermaine was born on April 23rd, 1995, Alle, von ihren Großeltern bis zu ihren Cousinen, ihren Onkels und Onkels, waren da, um eine Hand mit dem Erwachsenen.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Besonders, weil Germaines Eltern nicht mehr zusammen waren und sie war meistens von ihrer einzigen Mutter erwachsen. Nun, es war klar, dass Germaine sehr artistisch war. When she wasn't drawing or knitting, she was thriving in the great outdoors, fishing or hunting or taking care of one of her many, many pets. She had squirrels to dogs to pigs.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And as she got older, Germaine had dreams of going to the Institute of American Indian Arts in New Mexico and finding ways to blend both her heritage and culture with her incredible talent. Aber das Leben hatte andere Pläne für Germaine. Als sie nur 14 Jahre alt war, hat Germaine einen Jungen kennengelernt, für den sie hart gelaufen ist.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Es war ein 16-jähriger Michael de France, der ein non-tribalischer Bürger war. Die beiden begannen also eine Beziehung. Aber bevor Germaine sogar in ihren Zwanzigern kam, fand sie sich mit ihrem ersten Sohn verheiratet und dann mit ihrem zweiten Sohn bald danach.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Yeah, I would have no idea. I think that that's like a cultural question.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Now, I do need to say that over the years that they were dating, things were hot and cold between Jermaine and Michael. But Jermaine always put a strong face on for her two kids. She was eager to teach them about their heritage, how to fish, how to hunt. But parenthood definitely got in the way of her art school dreams.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Stattdessen arbeitete Germaine ein paar seltsame Arbeiten auf der Reservation. Die große Kantine am Meer, ein Baumwanderer mit den tribalen Waldversicherungen. An einem Punkt hatte sie sogar Interesse daran, Feuerwehrleiterin zu werden. Das alles, um zu sagen, dass Germaine fasziniert war über ihre Gemeinschaft und ihre Leute. Und sie hat nie zu weit von zu Hause gewartet.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Sie hat immer sehr verbunden mit ihren Routen geblieben. This is something Michael, who was definitely controlling at times, could never take away from Germaine. But in 2017, Michael actually seemed to move on from her. He had gotten engaged to a new girlfriend. And Germaine, according to her Facebook status in 2017, had gone from single to in a relationship with someone new herself.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
But with two young boys tying them together, Michael and Germaine continued to see each other from time to time. That was at least up until June of 2018. So on June 14th, Germaine and Michael attended a monster truck rally together. Then on June 15th, Germaine woke up and spent the first half of her day doing what most 23-year-olds loved to do at this time – making lip-syncing videos for TikTok.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
It was a platform that she was very active on, according to her friends and family. And I want you to know, it's 2018, so she is active on TikTok before TikTok really became TikTok. I think it already changed for Musical.ly.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
um but just barely yeah so she's posting on tick tock she was very active on it and in the post jermaine seems happy she's in great spirits actually and then she hits the bars in downtown missoula later that evening now she stops at the dark horse bar till around 10 pm before heading next door to two more places that would be the golden rose and then followed by the badlander
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
Now, Germaine has a few drinks. She's having fun. She's out for the night. She plays pool. She hits the dance floor. And everyone who sees her this night says that she looks like she's having a great time. But a bartender at the Badlander, remember, this is the third place she's gone to, says that that night Germaine was on her phone a lot. Now, again, it's 2018.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
I think being glued to your phone as a 23 year old is honestly not that strange. But what the bartender does find strange is that there is a guy there with Jermaine who keeps trying to get her attention at the bar. He's kind of following her around like a little puppy. And the bartender also says neither Jermaine nor this guy she's with really seem to be too intoxicated.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And I do think it's interesting that bartenders actually can recall pretty heavily the people that they were serving that night.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And the people probably talk a lot.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
I think it's also important to note that the bartender says that Jermaine's not just hanging out with this one mystery dude who's following her around. There's groups of people that she's bopping around to, she's socializing with throughout the night. And then she leaves the bar sometime after midnight with one of these groups.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And she's actually seen on security footage talking with them outside the bar. And then she walks off. But that same guy who's kind of following her is trailing a bit behind her. So by the middle of the next day, Jermaine's family hasn't heard a peep out of her, which is scary because Jermaine always called to check in.
Murder With My Husband
242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
And she was constantly posting on social media, but since the night before, Germaine had gone dark. And now she's not answering her phone. So Germaines grandmother is actually the first person to notice it, so she calls Germaines aunts for help. And after a few more hours with no sign of her, they start calling around hospitals, shelters, everywhere they can think of to try and track her down.
Murder With My Husband
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But by the following day, June 17th, they are so sick with worry, because she still hasn't come home, or answered, that they contact the Flathead Reservation's tribal police department. Now, here's where things start to kind of get complicated. Because the tribal police say that they can't do much, because Jermaine's disappearance happened off of the reservation. It was in Missoula at the bars.
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Yes, family need to go to the Missoula police and file with them. Okay, so they call the Missoula police who say, oh, you're going to have to come down to the station in person to file this missing persons report.
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Oh mein Gott. Okay. Okay. And the family doesn't know if that's because Germaine was over 18, so legally she can disappear without telling anyone, or because she had been bar hopping that night and drinking, so police aren't taking it seriously, or probably more likely because she was an indigenous woman from the reservation.
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While they speak with Missoula police on June 19th, the police don't actually file the report until the 20th and then they don't sign a detective to her case until the 21st. Which like, if you know anything about missing persons cases, wasting two days just to file the report and assign a detective is insane. And then that detective goes on vacation.
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242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So he's in charge of her case and then he leaves on vacation. So her case just sits there with no one investigating it for another five days until a different detective realizes, hey, we had this missing person report and like literally none of us have looked into it.
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I think the average person would, but I also think that this is an epidemic. This is something that happens often.
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It is insane. So it's not actually until June 26th, this is almost 10 days after she has last been seen that night, that the Missoula police finally start questioning things about Germaine.
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Es ist zu spät. Wenn es eine Chance gab.
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Also, die Familie verliert nicht Hoffnung während all dieser Dinge. In der Zwischenzeit, in diesen zehn Tagen, haben sie die Dinge in ihre eigenen Hände genommen. Sie haben Bilder gelegt, Flyer gehalten. Oh mein Gott. ist eigentlich eine Stunde entfernt von dem, wo sie letztens gesehen wurde, also wo soll man suchen?
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Leider war das nicht das erste Mal, dass eine nativistische Frau von der Flathead-Reservation weggegangen ist. Also vermutlich haben viele dieser Menschen, die sich suchen wollten, diese Länder schon vorher geklemmt.
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242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So, the search doesn't produce any results. There is still no sign of Germaine. But the police have already been working on some theories about what happened when they got 10 days later, when they decided to start looking at it. For starters, they feel pretty confident that this wasn't a runaway situation, especially since, as we know, Germaine is a mother. She left two little boys back at home.
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242. Stolen In Plain Sight - Jermain Charlo
So that's when they jumped to other possibilities. Either Germaine disappeared due to some drug-related crime, someone she knows is involved in her disappearance, maybe she was trafficked.
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At first, police say they have good reason to investigate the human trafficking angle, because Detective Guy Baker, the one who is officially now taking on Germaines case, says they have some information about people coming from out of state into Missoula to traffic girls.
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Now, from what I can tell, this was something they had come across before at the Missoula Police Station. And it's particularly because there is a major interstate that runs through the area by downtown Missoula. And as the Missoula County Deputy Attorney put it, they could be, quote, swept away in an instant, which is why trafficking is a problem here. V.a.
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mit dem Verlust von GPS-Signalen und Zelltüren in der Gegend. Es macht es einfach, Leute zu verabschieden und sie aus dem Staat zu bringen, bevor sie sogar eine Telefonnachricht machen können. Nun, das ist wirklich all die Informationen, die ich habe, auf der human trafficking Theorie.
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Und ich weiß, dass die Polizei nicht viel mehr als das hat, weil sie es ziemlich früh in der Investigation ausruhen. Also ist es das erste, was sie aufhören. But they end up ruling it out. Especially when they get a piece of evidence that shows what Germaine was doing and who she was with on the night of her disappearance.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
So Pamela tells Jake, the boy that she's sending sweet, lovey messages to, that also happens to be her cousin, that her ex-husband is abusing her child when he goes and stays with him.
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There's absolutely zero evidence of that. But Pamela doesn't tell Jake that. She just told him over and over practically daily how horrible it was. To the point where Jake was really worried about Calder and it was all he could focus on. But Pamela knew exactly what she was doing. This seemed to be a part of a long con she had been assembling for months. She welcomed Jake into her home.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
She preyed on his mental health condition. She manipulated him into believing her and taking her side. And then she was going to use him as a weapon to carry out a sadistic plan. And it was working.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
So from what I could gather... It took me a second. Das ist so traurig. Und das war dann, als sie Jake satzte und ihm sagte, es gibt nur einen Weg, um Calder sicher zu halten. Das ist weit zu weit gegangen. Das ist so eine gefährliche Situation. Wir müssen Michael Wise einmal und für alle entfernen.
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bonus episodes you get extra murder with my husband episodes and ad free on all of our shows it's true that's double click right now you're dumb if you don't i'm just kidding you're not dumb you're loved and so good and smart here you got your 10 seconds
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Now, I'm just going to quickly point out, Jake is a full grown adult. But he is in a power dynamic. Not only is Pamela years older than him in her 40s. She's also established. She's a psychiatrist. She has seen him and helped him through extremely hard times. So you automatically look up to that person and put them on a pedestal for saving you.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
It is honestly a really easy situation to manipulate for a therapist to manipulate a patient. V.a. wenn sie mit ihm flirten und ihn belegen, dass ihre Beziehung noch größer ist als das. Jake hörte auf, als Pamela die verschiedenen Pläne herauslegte. Sie wollte Michael nicht nur aus der Bildung. Sie sagte Jake, dass sie Michael, ihren Ex-Freund, verletzen wollte.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Sie sprach über die furchtbaren Möglichkeiten, ihn zu injizieren.
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Sie injizierte ihn mit Pumpe, machte ihn zu einem langen Tod. Wie kann diese Frau Psychiaterin sein? Was? Aber...
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Ja, aber wissen sie, wie sie lügen?
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Es gibt viele Leute da draußen, die Beihilfe bieten. Manchmal sind sie nicht sogar verpflichtet, das zu tun. Und die Leute werden folgen.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Schau, die Kultleute. Ja. So, Pamela was showing no mercy, but she also knew that none of these were fast or practical. So on the night of November 11th, 2012, she and Jake settled on a plan that they could actually execute. That night, Jake went to Home Depot and bought a 10-pound sledgehammer.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
When he got home, Pamela hand-drew him a map of how to get to Michaels West 57th Street high-rise, where he both lived and worked. So the following morning, Jake wakes up early. He laid in bed as Pamela stroked his back, fed him words of encouragement, remember their cousins.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
She told him how much she loved him, how he was saving their lives, and how life was going to get better once Michael was, quote, terminated. Sie hat Jake einen Knopf genommen, mit dem Duffelbag, der mit seinem 10-Pound-Sledgehammer und dem Hand-Drawn-Map verpackt war. Sie hat Jake sogar gesagt, welchen Song sie ihm spielen wollte, als der Mord gemacht wurde.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Maxwells Silberhammer von den Beatles. Und dann hat sie Jake, der 20-Jährige, auf den Weg gebracht. So Jake said he started to have second thoughts about the whole thing while he was on the way. He was nervous, he wanted to back out. The problem was he knew he couldn't go back to Pamela without saying the job was done, so he kept moving forward.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
When he got to 57th Street, he checked the map Pamela had drawn him, which happened to show multiple different entrances to the building, including the ones that had the least security measures. Whether or not Jake followed those instructions though is unclear, because when he got inside, he actually checked in with the security guard at the front desk.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
He said he was heading to a tutoring center called Bright Kids. He even signed in using his real name. Then Jake got in the elevator and hit the button for the 12th floor, headed straight for Michael Weiss' psychiatry office. Now when Jake got there, he noticed that Michael was actually in session with a patient.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
But rather than take a seat in his waiting room, Jake left the office and went to the building stairwell while he waited for Michaels session to end. After the patient left, Jake went back inside. Remember, Michael knows Jake. He'd known him since he was a kid. He's going to recognize him. So when he sees Jake, he's of course like, what are you doing here? Why did my ex-girlfriend send you here?
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
The crowds are saying, shut her up.
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But Jake and Pamela had planned for that. Jake told Michael he needed him to print out and sign some forms for Calder's financial aid. Michael's like, okay, let's go, let's get this over with. Jake says, great, I'm going to use the bathroom while you do that. In the meantime, he locks himself in there and he starts pulling out his weapons. Jake then comes out of the restroom.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
He approaches Michael and he swings that sledgehammer at him. But he misses. Michael sah ihn. Er fliegt aus dem Weg. Jake hat nur die Möglichkeit, ihn auf den Rücken des Schulters zu schießen. Michael beginnt also, zurück zu kämpfen. Eventuell schießt Jake den Sledgehammer, weil es keine sehr praktische Waffe ist, und er bekommt seinen Knopf und beginnt, Michael zu schießen.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Er schießt ihn etwa sieben oder acht Mal in den Stomach, seine Rückseite, seinen Körper. bevor Michael tatsächlich anfängt, Jake zu überwachen. Oh, komm schon, trotz dessen, dass er gestabbt wurde, was ich sagen möchte. Michael ist sechs Fuß drei. Er ist 205 Pound. Jake ist nicht so groß. Lass uns gehen.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Also Michael, trotz dessen, dass er gestabbt wird, schlägt den Knopf aus Jake's Hand und er beginnt, ihn zu stürzen. Ja, also es ist Selbstdefense. So by now the two aren't even inside Michaels office slash home anymore. They have now made their way out into the hallway. Obviously this is loud. A neighbor comes out, sees what's going on, actually gets the two men separated and calls 911.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Well, let me tell you the aftermath, what happens next. And I think it will go to show you that I don't think Jake really in his right frame of mind. Okay, so Jake does something that shows you just how bizarre this is. So when they separate, they're both stabbed. The neighbor's calling police. He doesn't try to run away. He doesn't try to get out of the building.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
He just sits there with Michael after this fight, waiting for ambulances to arrive. And in the meantime, he gets his phone out. He takes a selfie of himself covered in blood and sends it to Pamela and asks her, okay, he's not dead. We're just like, I'm just sitting here. The police are coming. What should I do?
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Er ist ein Junge, aber kein Junge in seiner richtigen Meinung würde sitzen und Pamela fragen, was zu tun ist. Du würdest sagen, ich muss hier rauskommen. Aber er sucht so viel von ihr, was zu tun ist. Pamela respondiert nicht. Die Polizei ist gekommen. Jake ist so, ich weiß nicht, was zu tun ist. Er sagt, nein, nein, ich bin hierher gekommen, um dieses Zeichen zu bekommen.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Und Michael hat mich zuerst getötet. Michael hat diesen Kampf initiiert. Meanwhile, Michael saying to the police, are you kidding? He came in here with a sledgehammer. I had to fight back. I got the knife from him. But that's all police get out of them before they are both taken to the hospital. Now, none of them have suffered life threatening injuries, though.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Ironically, Jake actually was more banged up out of the two of them. Yeah. So it's from the hospital bed that Jake texts Pamela again. And since he still hasn't heard back from her from the first text, which now he's growing frantic. He feels like he's been abandoned. He writes to her in hospital. Please come. Michael bleeding badly. Same. I walked into office.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
He stabbed me with my knife in the heart. And this time he gets a response from Pamela, but it's just one word. She says, where? So Pamela does eventually go down to the hospital.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
But she's told at that point that she's not allowed to see Jake. Because not only is Jake under arrest for attempted murder and handcuffed to his hospital bed, doctors are determining that he is definitely currently suffering from a mental break that was triggered during the attack. And he is now in a very manic state. Danach sagt Jake, dass er in einem vollblutigen psychotischen Episode war.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Das ist das, was im Krankenhaus passiert ist. Michael wird gestrichen und wird in einem Tag oder so ausgelöst. Aber Jake bleibt im Krankenhaus für die nächsten vier Tage. Und einer seiner ersten Stopps, als er veröffentlicht wird, ist, in der Gerichtsschule vor einem Gericht zu stehen. Er ist verhaftet mit zweitgrößtem Mord. Seine Bellen sind auf 200.000 Dollar gesetzt.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Er trifft sie und in der Zwischenzeit fährt er zu seinen Eltern Haus in Miami, um mit ihnen zu bleiben. but here's the thing it takes jacob weeks to finally tell people i didn't like i wasn't actually really i didn't come up with the idea to kill michael pamela told me and when he starts telling people this they're like Du wurdest manipuliert. Du warst in einem vollblutigen psychotischen Episode.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Du warst nicht in einem guten mentalen Ort. Du wurdest manipuliert. Und er sagt, okay, er beginnt, seine Meinung umzusetzen. Er beginnt zu sagen, warte, ja, ich denke tatsächlich, ich wollte das nicht tun. Pamela auf der anderen Seite ist wie, no way, I did not ask him to do this. I would never ask him to do something like this.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Plus, there are no texts or emails or any evidence of conversations about it. So it's a bit hard to prove that Jake isn't lying. Die Leute sind so, nein, er ist in seiner richtigen Meinung und er wusste, was er gemacht hat. Er hat das gemacht, nicht Pamela. Das einzige echte Teil der Beweise, das sie zu dem Verbrechen bezieht, ist der Fakt, dass es diese handgelegte Map gab.
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Richtig. though when they confront pamela with like well why do you draw the map she says she has reason she's like calder's daycare is also inside that building jake was supposed to pick him up so she's like i just needed him to pick up my child i had no idea he was gonna do this but michael who jake tried to kill yeah tells police um
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
I think Jake's actually pretty innocent in this and this was 100% Pamela who manipulated him into doing this. So he takes Jake's side. It wasn't just custody of Calder that Pamela and Michael were actually fighting over at the time. In fact, they had just recently reached a custody agreement in court. One that ironed out visitation rights, child support payments and a life insurance policy.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Turns out, part of the deal was for Michael to take out a $1.5 million life insurance policy for himself and that his son would be the beneficiary. But three days before the attack, Michael actually changed the paperwork to say in the case of his death... Pamela wäre der Vertreterin, die dann die Ausgabe für Calder durchführen würde, bis er 18 Jahre alt wäre.
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Aber sie würde all seine Geld verdienen.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Also, wenn die Polizei zu Jake geht und sie fragt, ob er das wusste, wie dieser ganze Vertrag, den sie gemacht haben, er sagt, nein, ich hatte keine Ahnung, es gab eine Lebensinsurance-Polizei. Also, hearing this, the court actually grants Michael Wise full custody of Calder and they tell Pamela, you are not allowed to make contact with Calder for the next five years. But here's what's odd.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Even though the family court thinks Pamela is a dangerous identity, like they start to believe this story, the police don't. At least not yet. They don't charge her with any crime. She goes on living her life, albeit not with Calder. And meanwhile, Jake is bouncing from one treatment center to another, trying to contend with his drug and alcohol addictions, as well as his mental health conditions.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
At one point while awaiting trial, he makes another suicide attempt. And this time his parents don't think he'll survive. He actually is in a coma for several days, but he pulls out of it. And three and a half years after the attack in March of 2016, he finally makes it to the courtroom.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
So while the prosecution paints Jacob Nolan as this sort of spoiled rich kid who didn't deserve the jury sympathy, the defense took another approach. They went with an insanity defense or rather diminished capacity. This is a huge risk for Jake's defense team and here's why.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Insanity defenses are used today in less than 1% of felonies and only 25% of those cases are usually successful for the defendant. But here's what an insanity defense means. Basically it states that the person who committed the crime completely lacked the capacity to understand the consequences of their actions. This is hard to prove.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Now, the jury does get to hear about all the ways Pamela had manipulated Jacob leading up to the murder. In fact, at one point, the defense even calls an expert to the stand who compares Pamela to a cult leader. He says, sure, it might have been a small cult, only the two of them, but the principles are the same. It's shaping someone's thought process to meet the leader's ideas.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
The jury also gets to hear all about Jacobs history with mental illness, his bipolar diagnosis. But the prosecution claps back, saying bipolar disorder does not keep someone from understanding the severity of their actions, nor does it make someone lose complete control over their faculties, which, yes, is true.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
But when you add in manipulation, brainwashing, especially by someone who this person holds to high esteem, that could change. People who are deemed perfectly Oh Gott, Alter. He goes on to say, though, that he wasn't willing to torture Michael. He was just willing to kill him for Pamela. That statement right there was enough to completely discount the insanity defense.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
The prosecution says, no, look, like he knew well enough to know, well, I don't want to torture him, but I'll kill him. Here was Jake years later.
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Admitting he was aware of the decision. That he was willing to draw a line at some point. Torture no, but murder yes. The final nail in Jake's coffin though was that he told the psychiatrist in a later clip that he and Pamela were coming up with a plan.
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considering different ways to kill michael right and jacob was participating in that brainstorm when asked outright in those clips if he had helped plan the attack he said in a way yeah i did so while jake himself never took the stand in his trial it was still his own words that were being said but you know who else didn't take the stand pamela in fact she was never even subpoenaed to testify
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
According to Jake's lawyers, that's because no one could find her to order her to court.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Still, the jury believed they had all they needed by the end of the two-week trial. They deliberated for less than an hour and came back with a verdict for Jacob Nolan, guilty of attempted murder. Ultimately, they felt like if Jake could back out of torturing Michael, he could have also backed out of the murder. Wow. Wow.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
But just because Jake was behind bars doesn't mean the investigation was closed. In fact, the police seemingly took what Jake said to heart and they kept looking into Pamela, especially when one giant piece of evidence proved Jake was not alone in this after all, despite what Pamela had been saying.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Turns out, Pamela went with Jacob the night before the attempted murder to Home Depot to help him buy that sledgehammer. And because she's seen on security footage standing in line next to him and paying for it with cash, there's no pinning this all on Jacob at this point, nor more. He said, she said, it's clear Pamela was definitely involved in planning this.
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Frankly, if she hadn't have gone to Home Depot with Jacob and been caught on security camera, they might not have had enough. So instead, an arrest warrant was finally issued for the 47-year-old Pamela in October of 2017, almost five years since that attempted murder. Police track her down to a friend's home in Fayettsville, New York, about four and a half hours outside of the city.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
And when they knock, Pam's the one who answered. She was placed in handcuffs, brought back to New York City to face the charges for her connection to the attack. The pandemic hits, time goes on, blah, blah, blah, like we see in all these cases. In September of 2022, it's now nearly a decade since the attempted murder, she shocks a lot of people when she changes her tune.
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Okay. If you know me at all, actually me and Garrett, you know that we are big on mental wellness. I think it's important to journal, check in with yourself, give your mind a day off when you need it. And frankly, I think we are lucky to live in a world where mental health is finally getting taken a little more seriously.
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She goes into a courtroom and changes her plea to guilty. But the twists weren't over yet. Pamela went back into the courtroom a month later for her sentencing hearing and she says, ah, never mind, I withdraw my plea. Wow. Wow. Michael Weiss was there. He witnessed the entire thing.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
So Michael was there. He says in an impact statement, While I am grateful for this day that's arrived, it has not brought me the sense of relief or the feeling of closure I hoped it would. Although it's been almost 10 years since I was attacked, I still struggle with the emotional and physical scars of what happened to me on November 12, 2012.
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pam will not be eligible for parole until 2027 and i think it's safe to say she will not be allowed to resume her psychiatry practice once she is released and that is the attempted murder of michael weiss it's kind of sad because the kids also affected and he didn't do anything like now he's gonna grow up basically without a mom because his mom wanted to kill dad which is insane
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It's a huge, gigantic mess. And again, we often are talking about mental health in these cases, but this was one case where a lot of people believe that if mental health had not been a component, there actually would have not been any attempted murder.
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I guess we'll really never know for sure, though. All right, you guys, that is our case for this week, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
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Just a few short decades ago, if you were to ask off of work for a mental health day, you probably would have been laughed out of the office or fired. But now people understand that mental well-being is just as, if not sometimes more important than your physical well-being, especially in cases where the mind affects the body.
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But when it comes to the nuances of mental health conditions, like really understanding how they all work and operate, we have a long way to go. Das ist, wo Therapie und Psychiatrie kommen. Manchmal ist die einzige Option, die jemand hat, ist, all ihre Vertrauen in diese Professionellen zu setzen. Und ich habe definitiv da gewesen.
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You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
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Manchmal ist das der einzige Weg Richtung normaler Leben, wie es scheint. Was man nie erwartet ... ist es für einen Mental-Health-Professor, diese Vertrauen zu brechen, diese Verbindung für ihren eigenen Wunsch zu manipulieren, vor allem, wenn du am stärksten verletzt bist und vor allem, wenn sie auch ein Mitglied deiner eigenen Familie sind. Okay. Lass uns da rein.
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Ich war mit Eyeliner, schwarzem Eyeliner, überall um meine Augen, absolut kein Make-up auf meinen Augenbrauen und Toms.
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Well, I'm looking out the window right now and it's snowing.
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Ich war eine Toms-Frau durch und durch.
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Oh, sieh, ich bin glücklich darüber, weil ich kann sagen, nein, ich war eine der Tom's Girls.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
So, we're in New York City, 2012. It's there that we meet a 20-year-old man named Jacob Nolan. Now, Jake did not have an easy time up until this point in his life. Though you might not have predicted that from his early years. Because seemingly Jake grew up in a stable household. The third of three children to Debbie and Jim Nolan, who was a wealthy real estate investor.
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But it was clear from an early age, money and wealth aside, Jake was not like the other children. He was incredibly smart, gifted by some accounts. But if you asked his parents, he was an innovator, always looking to build or create something new. But by the time Jake turned five, his parents noticed a few signs in him that became alarming.
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And while I don't know what Jake's symptoms were, I know he was diagnosed at that early of an age with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, better known as ADHD. Nun, lasst uns einfach klar sein, dass ADHD eine ziemlich übliche Bedingung ist, die ca. 11% der Kinder zwischen 5 und 17 Jahren verursacht.
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Es kann zu einer Verlustfokussierung führen, es ist schwer, in der Schule Aufmerksamkeit zu machen, eure Impulse zu kontrollieren, sowie Mood swings und Hyperaktivität. Aber es ist einer der besser verstandenen Veränderungen, also bedeutet das, dass es ein bisschen einfacher ist, als andere Bedingungen. though not in everyone's case, like Jake Nolans.
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As Jake got into his teenage years, his family noticed that his mood swings were getting more unpredictable. The highs were higher and the lows were a lot lower. Zum Beispiel, während er in der Hochschule war, hat Jake den innovativen Teil von sich zu den Tests gelegt. Und er hat tatsächlich eine iPhone-App geschaffen, die für seine Klassenleute eine Studie-Tool war.
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Er hat sie sogar für einen prestigiosen Wettbewerb gewonnen. But that feeling of success only lasted for so long. A month later, Jake was having a hard time getting out of bed in the mornings, let alone packing his bags and heading off to school. It was at that point he was diagnosed with depression and anxiety.
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And while I don't know what Jake's treatment plan was, I do know that by age 17 he had made a suicide attempt. Jake was hospitalized after the event, but was then given a more severe diagnosis. Bipolar disorder can include drastic mood swings like elevated euphoria to severe depression. Along with other symptoms like anxiety, irritability, even cognitive issues like memory loss or poor judgment.
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So by the time Jake actually entered his college years, his doctors have tried upward of 30 different medications to try and manage this.
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though none of them really seemed to help in the way he hoped. And honestly, this is like devastating. It is absolutely devastating. And things only got worse for Jake once he was alone. That's when he began self-medicating with things like drugs and alcohol. Und es in der Klasse zu machen, wurde Jake's Problem am wenigsten. Aber das war, als seine Eltern eine Idee hatten.
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Vielleicht sollte Jake einfach mit seinem Cousin Pamela in ihrer New York City Apartment ein bisschen bleiben. Nach allem, wenn jemand Jake vollzeit helfen könnte, wäre es sie, weil sie Psychiaterin war.
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Sie sagen ihnen, lasst ihn aus seinem Umfeld raus, lasst ihn aufstehen, lasst ihn mit seinem Cousin Pamela, der ein Psychiater ist, der mehr darüber weiß, und vielleicht kann sie ihm helfen, Dinge umzusetzen. Aber ich glaube nicht, dass ein normales Bipolar-Verhältnis so einfach ist, dass man einfach Dinge umsetzen kann. Aber sie hoffen, dass das helfen kann.
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You ever thought about the fact we were just like bumping in people's ears or speakers? That's weird. Like, I listen to podcasts and then the other day I had this weird experience where I was listening and I was like, wait, there's people where this is my voice.
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So, Pamela Buckbinder was a bit older than Jake, by about 23 years. But the two had seemingly been close for a lot of Jake's life. So close that he was practically the godfather to her four-year-old son, Calder. So, 43-jährige Pamela machte einen Vertrag mit Jake und seinen Eltern. Er könnte mit ihr bleiben, täglich Therapie-Sessionen bekommen, während sie seine Medikamente monitoriert hat.
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Das ist unglaublich. Und in der Rückkehr konnte er um die Haustür helfen und sie zu erheben. Jetzt war Pamela nicht verheiratet. In Wahrheit, sie und ihr Ex-Verein Michael Wise haben sie zusammengehalten. Aber seitdem sie sich vor einem Jahr oder so gebrochen haben, hatten sie ihre Sohn ausgeschlossen. Also in einer Art und Weise war diese Situation für Jake und Pamela nötig.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
Die beiden konnten sich auf einander verlassen und es sah sich ehrlich gesagt gut für Jake an, zumindest zu Beginn. He moved there and Jake started holding himself to a higher standard now that Calder was looking up to him. He felt purpose in life, like he had to set a good example for him.
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Jake had always wanted to have his own family, but his mental health seemed to stand in the way of making that possible. But now, in a way, he had achieved those dreams by getting closer with Calder and Pamela. But over time it became clear, there was something wrong with the dynamic between Jake and his cousin Pamela.
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It seemed to start with a photo of Jake and Pamela in bed together with Calder one morning. So whether or not he posted this on social media, I'm not really sure. But I know that the image started to go around and it definitely made Jake's parents like, why is he in bed with his 43-year-old cousin and her son? Like, this doesn't look like they're cousins hanging out with the child.
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This looks like a different type of picture.
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They became even more suspicious when they actually found some texts between Pamela and Jake on Jake's cell phone. Messages that read things like, You are remarkable. My love for you is huge. You're the most fun person to love.
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I have so many thoughts about you. But here's the thing. Jake tells everyone that he and Pamela were never physical or romantic with one another. That it was just words and nothing more. But the truth was, Pamela did have an agenda. She knew exactly what she was trying to do by sending Jake these lovey, sweet texts. And the psychiatrist, Pamela, was not actually falling in love with her cousin.
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She was trying to manipulate him, weaponize him,
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A little back story on Pamela. As I mentioned, the psychiatrist had fallen in love years before with another New York City psychiatrist named Michael Weiss. He was the father of her four-year-old son. Now, I'm not sure how long Pamela and Michael were together for, but I know it was a while because while they never got married, Michael was seen as family.
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I mean, he had attended parties for Jake, so he had been around for at least close to a decade, if not longer, since Jake was now in his 20s. So he had been a part of Pamela's family. Though despite both of them being mental health professionals, the relationship they shared was actually pretty toxic.
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Not only was it on again, off again, both sides claimed that there were instances of domestic violence from the other. And though Pamela had actually been arrested for it before, during one fight she attacked Michael with a broken glass and he ended up needing stitches. I guess on another occasion Michael was arrested after Pamela reported him for attempting to assault her.
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Du weißt, ich würde sagen, dass es viele Leute gibt, die wirklich gut an Inspirierung und Lehren sind und nicht tun. Du weißt, was ich meine? Und ich glaube, das ist ein Talent in und für sich. Es gibt Dance-Coaches da draußen, die nicht tanzen können, aber sie können Dance wirklich gut lernen. Und ich denke, dass das mit jeder Profession ist.
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Don't worry, you guys. I can teach you how to podcast and I can podcast.
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Right. So that's kind of what's going on with them. Both of them have been in trouble with the law for hurting the other person. The whole thing's really ugly. Not the kind of loving partnership you would want to bring a kid into. And nonetheless, Pamela had their son in 2008. Aber sie und Michael haben sich für gut kurz nachdem sie ihr Baby hatte verabschiedet.
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2012, während Jake in New York City mit Pamela lebte, waren sie und Michael tatsächlich in einer heiligen Verhandlung über Calder. And Jake was hearing every single update of what was going on, or at least Pamela's side of things.
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259. The Therapist That Prescribed Murder!
She told Jake that Michael was refusing to pay child support, that he wouldn't sign the financial aid papers she needed to get Calder into school, which were supposedly all lies and soon got a lot more intense. Pamela told Jake Michael had been abusing Calder when he stayed with him.
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He doesn't call 911. He calls 311. This is the non-emergency line where he files a missing persons report. But it doesn't take long for police to show up at their house anyways, because if someone is missing, that actually is an emergency. And here's what Joe tells them. When he got up, he noticed that she had left behind her car keys, her cell phone and her wallet.
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And perhaps the most alarming, she had left her one-year-old daughter, Anna, also at the house. Now, right then and there, that's raising red flags with police because why wouldn't you have called in her disappearance right away?
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Sie werden auch nicht weggehen und ihre Wallet und alles zu Hause verlassen.
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So they're like, okay, why didn't you call us right then and there when you woke up and she was gone, but everything was still home? They're like, was there some kind of fight? Is that why you weren't alarmed? And he's like, no, the last fight they had was a week ago and it really wasn't even a big deal. Aber Joe sagt, ich habe nicht angerufen, weil es eine Sache gibt, von der ich bescheuert bin.
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Und das ist, dass er denkt, dass es einen anderen Mann in Mung Shis Leben gibt. Er zeigt den Polizisten Mung Shis Telefon und ihre Computer, zusammen mit Texten, die sie jemandem mit einer chinesischen Basis-Message-App gesendet hat, die die meisten sexuell explizit waren und eine Art emotionaler Beziehung entfordert haben. Now we have motive might have been going on between the two of them.
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So he's like, this is why I'm not that worried, because she's probably just with him. Joe then shares with police that he and Munchie have separate bank accounts. So it would be kind of easy for her to take off, start a new life with someone else without him really being aware of it. So Joe is then brought down to the police station to put his statement on record.
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He shows up without a lawyer and offers up pretty much the same details that he did back at the house. But he does add in a few new details, details that definitely raise some eyebrows around the station, like the situation that's a little weird, but maybe there's motive, just starts to get a little weirder.
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For example, Joe says in the hours after his wife went missing, he wakes up, he notices his wife is missing. Okay. Okay. Okay, did you lock your doors to your house when you left? He says yes. Well, that tells them, okay, he obviously wasn't expecting his wife to come back home because she doesn't have her keys. So how would she have gotten in the house if he wasn't there?
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Right. And I think that this is a major red flag when a wife goes missing and a husband is nonchalant. Well home and also saying, I mean, okay, Josh Powell did the same exact thing, right?
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His wife goes missing and in the middle of the night he puts his kids in the car and goes for a camping trip where there's no service in the middle of nowhere all day long and then comes home and goes, oh yeah, I guess my wife is missing, but I was camping.
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No one's gonna take that one for that. Well, I mean, Joe says he was going for a drive. But Josh had two little kids camping in a snowstorm. No, he was dumping the body.
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Und ich denke einfach, warum? Ich meine, Joe ist wie zu ermitteln, dass er in berühmten Teilen von Missouri war, wo er einfach ein Körper verstecken konnte. Es ist nur ein sehr großer roter Flagg. Und das ganze Ganze wird einfach noch weirder, wenn später an dem Tag Joe zu einer Interview mit einem lokalen News Channel akzeptiert. Also wiederum, ein weiterer roter Flagg, den wir sehen.
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Oh, ich würde sagen, wir haben ein paar Kommentare, um es klar zu machen. Also die Art und Weise, wie ein Haartransplant funktioniert, ist, dass sie die Rückseite von Gerrits Haar genommen haben und es in den Vordergrund geplant haben. Also was du jetzt siehst, ist nicht der Haartransplant. Das wird nicht für mindestens einen anderen sein.
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among fathers who kill their wives and the mother of their children. So he goes before cameras to say he wants his wife returned home soon for the sake of their one-year-old daughter. He also implies on air that she very well may have run off with another man and that he quote, Yeah, I just hope that she's safe.
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So it's just like not the way you would expect a husband to talk about a missing wife. To like air the dirty laundry, to imply that maybe the person she ran off with might kill her.
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So, there's also more things that he said during this interview that detectives keyed in on. Most specifically, the fact that Joe refers to her in the past tense more than once during that press conference. Again, we know this is like an obvious sign. When people are lying about someone being alive, they will refer to them as the last time they saw them, which was dead.
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So, she was instead of she is, that type of thing.
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But right now, there's nothing really to indicate foul play. Sure, Mengshi has been missing for about 48 hours. There's no blood, no weapon, no witnesses, no body. We are back to Josh Powell, the case. So now they start looking for a trail. If Meng Shi really did go back to China to be with this man, they are going to follow that lead. There would have to be some sign of that.
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So a plane ticket, an Uber, money deducted from her personal account. But when they look into it, there's none of it. Which is why police have no choice but to drop that theory and zoom in further on Zhou and Meng Shis past, their relationship. So as we already know, things were not looking good for the couple's marriage. They were growing apart. Mengxu was possibly seeing someone else.
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But police found evidence that it wasn't just fights about money and parenting that drove a wedge between the couple. When Joe willingly handed over his phone as evidence, police found 10 hours of Oh, holy crap. 10 Stunden. Oh, so they were both recording. This is just like a bad sign for a marriage.
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When Joe was asked why they kept these recordings of their conversations, he actually says it was a way to better help them communicate so they could listen back after they fought and cooled off to see how they spoke to each other, maybe improve on their relationship.
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Which like, I guess it's not that dumb if you want to record a fight and then give it to your therapist and be like, here's a look in. But if you are doing it in a marriage, it almost just feels like more
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Right, like just ammo. Look how you said this while we were fighting type thing. So let me just preface this by saying the conversations that are recorded don't Wait, I love... What's that...
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I do feel like we're sounding quite uncultured right now, but neither I nor Garrett have been.
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Yeah, and a couple people were like, I liked your old hair. I'm like, oh, it's not. Well, actually, it's supposed to just look like his old hair, but a little better, too.
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Well, that's what I was saying is we haven't... We've never really had the opportunity to go visit.
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Okay, so these conversations aren't looking good for him. Okay, she is, her mother is making dumplings and Joe does not like the way that she is using their cutting board. It seems that he pulled Mengshi aside and started screaming at her. And this is something that Mengshi caught on her phone. In the audio, you can hear him telling her there are going to be problems if she lets her parents stay.
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Oh, kill Joe. Oh, okay, okay. Sorry. Oh mein Gott. Was ist denn mit Menschen? To Joe threatening to get Mengshi deported. To Joe then saying that Mengshi abuses him. It's a lot of yelling. It's a lot of nonsense. It's a lot of toxicity. A lot of gaslighting, honestly, on Joe's part, is what police find. To the point where Mengshi actually says in one of these recordings, you are brainwashing me.
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So she knows, like she's aware that like she's stuck. But there's one statement from Joe that really sets off alarm bells for investigators during one of these conversations. It's when Joe tells Munchie and quote, you think you are so empowered because of this society. Well, don't forget that nature exists and you're still just a woman. So basically saying men are stronger than women.
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You think because of the day and age we have where women have all these rights and power.
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Not that that matters, but it's just like his idea.
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It's when, like, it's the idea of him touting that he is a man, which makes him amazing, when, like, there's no hard facts to back it up type thing is what you're saying.
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Yeah, I get that. So he brings up this nature concept again later to Mung-Shi 2. Basically survival of the fittest.
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He's saying nature, but he's referring to it in the context of survival of the fittest, as in I'm a man and you're a woman. So technically, she's nature.
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This is so weird. I can remember old episodes talking about old Super Bowls.
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So to police, this sounds like a blatant threat. Like listening to these fights, they're like, this guy is blatantly threatening her life. Like saying, I am stronger than you and could kill you, basically. No two ways about it. At one point, things get so intense between the couple that Mengshi actually called Joe's mother, Jean, to come over and try to talk to her son.
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Sensing her urgency, her mother-in-law made the two-hour drive to the couple's house that day, but to be honest, she didn't seem to help much. By the way, that meeting was recorded as well.
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And while Jean says she's not taking sides, that she's just a mediator, she really doesn't do anything when her son threatens Mengshi right in front of his mom, asking if he should just smack her or beat her down to get her to behave the way she wants. He says that in front of his mom, and the mom really doesn't say anything. What's up, Mom? We got some problems going on here. We're a series.
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Well, I mean, mate, never mind. I was just gonna say, sometimes we like to repeat trauma behavior.
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Ja, also vielleicht hat er dieses Verhalten gelernt. Ich sage nicht, dass ich keine Beweise habe, das zu beurteilen. Ich sage nur, dass wir statistisch wissen, dass wir Trauma-Verhältnisse wiederholen. Wir mögen unsere Mütter oder unsere Väter verabreden.
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Ich weiß, was du sagst. Also, ob es eine Serie von physischen Veränderungen zwischen Joe und Mengxi gab, bin ich nicht sicher. Es scheint nicht so, als ob any of those were caught on tape. But I can safely say, as with any domestically abusive partnership, whether that's physical or just verbally abusive, there's usually a big reason why someone sticks around and oftentimes it is financial.
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But in Meng Shis case, it may have been because of her immigration status.
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Nur fünf Monate nachdem sie vermisst war, musste sie noch ein Interview machen, um ihre grüne Karte zu versichern. Es ist also sehr möglich, dass sie auf die letzte Hürde gewartet hatte, bevor sie Joe verlassen, weil, wenn sie ihn verlassen hätte, hätte sie sich leichter verabschiedet. Und dann, was wird sie mit Anna tun? Verlässt sie die Verwaltung? Es ist eine ganze Sache.
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So while there was no concrete evidence that Joe Elledge had done anything to his wife at this point, those recordings were more than enough for police to consider him their prime suspect. About two weeks after her disappearance, the Columbia Police Department publicly stated they were opening up a criminal investigation on her disappearance.
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And that same day, October 25th, 2019, police came knocking on Joe Elledges door with a warrant. but not for Mengshi's death. This was on completely different charges. It was for child abuse. And trigger warning, I'm just very quickly going to be talking about child abuse, so if that is a trigger, just go ahead and skip.
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So, an anonymous source had called the police to say Mengshi had confided in her before her death that Joe had hit one-year-old Anna so hard that spankte sie, er hatte einen Schmerz auf der Nase geblieben. Und ein Statement, das tatsächlich verabschiedet wurde, als Detektive Bilder von diesem Schmerz auf Munchs iPad gefunden haben.
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Also, während Joe argumentierte, dass er spielte und sie vielleicht ein bisschen zu hart verpissete, wussten die Bewerber, dass ein Verpiss nicht so groß wie ein Schmerz ist und es selten schwarz, blau und grün wird, wie das in der Fotografie. Und ich kann das nicht mit dem. Ich kann das nicht. Also, Joe wurde mit nach der Station gebracht und mit einem Verbrechen für Kindesabsturz verurteilt.
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What could a one-year-old do? His bond was set at $500,000. This is a price officers knew Joe couldn't afford, except this is obviously all part of their plan. With Joe behind bars, they are one step closer to nabbing him for Mengshi's disappearance. But that wasn't all the detectives accomplished that afternoon. See, they didn't just show up at the house with just an arrest warrant for Joe.
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They also showed up with a search warrant for the property. So while he's in jail, they are searching his property. They find some pretty interesting stuff, like... Mungshis Passport, all of her luggage. This is a very clear indicator that Mungshi had not fled the country to be with someone else, as Joe had initially theorized to police.
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But there was also a backpack full of notes belonging to Joe. One with the heading, What to tell the police. There was another note in this pack pack that seemed like a reminder he had written to himself to quote, speak to Meng Shi in the present tense instead of past.
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Yes, something he had already dropped the ball on. It's almost like he had like flashcards that he was studying on how to act after. But there was one thing officers collected that at the time might not have seemed too significant, but would actually end up playing a huge role in the case later. And that was a pair of muddy hiking boots.
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Now at the same time, officers are analyzing Joe's cell phone data, because remember, he told them that instead of calling the police when he woke up that morning and found his wife missing, he drove around with his daughter looking for new hiking trails. One plus one equals two. They're hoping if they can ping his cell phone, they might know where to search.
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And they find that Joe visited the area along the Lamine Trail.
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river this is about a 40 minute drive from their house and he was there for about 30 minutes according to his cell phone records something that joe never mentioned in his conversations with police so naturally they think okay he went to a river it is very possible that he left mung she's remains there so they conduct several searches of the area from highway patrol and cadaver dogs scanning the perimeter to dive teams searching the water
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But nothing turns up. Still, police know they have the right guy. Those voice recordings especially are haunting them. Same with the prosecutors who are now looking at Meng Shis case. And with Joe behind bars for child abuse, they take their chances. Even though they still don't have a body. Das ist selten in solchen Fällen.
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Die Verwaltungen fühlen sich sicher, dass ein Gericht ihre Seite sehen wird. Also am 19. Februar 2020 verurteilen sie erste-Gruppen-Fälle gegen Joe. Okay. Aber das bedeutet nicht, dass sie die Suche nach Mung-Shee geben. Die Bewerber glauben immer noch, dass ihr letztes Restplatz irgendwo auf dem Berg ist, wo sein Telefon klingelt.
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So viel so, dass Mung-Shees Eltern sogar ein Memorial für sie dort halten. Oh, das ist so schlimm. Um März 2020.
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But for the next year, that's how things stand. Joe and Mengshi's daughter Anna stays with Mengshi's parents until their visa is up and they have to go back to China. And then she goes to Joe's mother's house, which I'm sure is just absolutely devastating.
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Well, I just guess I don't understand how there's not a rule in place in immigration where if there's like a court case or something going on that is unsettled, you can't extend your visa.
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Right, because it's like they're obviously going to want to be there for the court hearings. Like they are going to want to be there.
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Interessant. Ich verstehe nicht, warum es keine Lüge gibt.
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I'm not a parent. I don't know how hard that would be to hear your kid threaten life. I just know like if I know personally, if one of our parents heard one of us do that, it would raise alarm bells and they would be like, absolutely not.
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So I don't know. Währenddessen sitzt Joe Elledge hinter den Bars und wartet auf seine Behandlung, während die Hoffnung, Mung-Shi's Körper zu finden, ein bisschen wendet. Aber das ist bis März 2021. Am 25. A Hiker namens Seven Roberts ist durch eine wälderische Gegend von Rockbridge Memorial State Park. Natürlich ist das der gleiche Park, in dem Mung-Shi und Joe sich engagiert haben,
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in back in 2017 so as he makes his way further down a path lined with juniper trees he spots something in the dirt is actually a pop of color that's just standing out so he gets closer and he sees that it's a woman's purse Der Hiker verwendet seinen Stuhl, um etwas weiter herum zu schlagen. Und dann sieht er ein Paar Sneakers.
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Und dann findet er menschliche Bleibende, die sich in der Dürre, in diesem Park befinden. Also hat Stephen die Erkenntnis so schnell wie möglich berichtet. Und innerhalb von Stunden war er die Detektivs an den Ort führten. Nun, als sie sich in den Kaffee befanden, fanden sie Dokumente, die zu Mung-Shi gehören.
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Not only that, the red, white and blue purse and black shoes found at the scene fit the description of the items Joe said Mengshi had taken with her the day she disappeared. So finally, after 17 long months, Mengshis body was found and the final pieces of the puzzle would soon fall into place. Oh Gott. Oh Gott.
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Es gab nur einen Teil, den sie prüfen mussten, dass Joe tatsächlich derjenige war, der diese Verletzungen verursacht hat. Und schockierend, kam diese Verbindung nicht aus einem Stück Haar oder Blut oder sogar Fingerprinten, die auf Mungshis Sachen geblieben sind. Es kommt aus einem Baum.
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So remember how I briefly mentioned that pair of muddy hiking boots police collected from Joe and Munchies apartment the day of his arrest? Well, it turns out that caked and dried mud on those boots held everything the prosecution needed to place Joe at the scene of the crime.
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Forensics found 12 different types of vegetation in his boots and plants, just like people and animals, have their own unique strands of DNA. So, Detektives took samples from Mung-Shi's burial site alongside Joe's boots, sent them to the Missouri Botanical Garden.
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There they were analyzed by plant population geneticists and once they were finished with their analysis, they concluded the juniper needles in Joe's boots came from the exact trees surrounding Mung-Shi's grave site.
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So this is what Joe tells the jury at trial when he took the stand. He said on the night in question, October 8th, 2019, he gave Meng Shi a massage. He tried to initiate sex. But when he went to undress Meng Shi, she stopped him. She told him she was meeting with someone the next morning.
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And that's when Joe confronted her about the messages he had found on her devices, the messages she had been sending to another man. Joe said he got dressed and planned to leave for the night. But when he told Meng Shi he was taking Anna with him, she forcefully pushed him away. So, he pushed her back and that's when she hit her head against the kitchen cabinet. She was still conscious.
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He said he led Meng Shi to the couch to rest, got Anna and left the house for 45 minutes to cool off. When he came back, he said Meng Shi had moved herself to the bed. She was still fully dressed but asleep. Finally, he woke up at around 5 a.m. when he heard Anna cry. But when he came back to the bedroom and checked on Meng Shi, he realized she had died in her sleep.
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Ich weiß nicht, warum Joe oder sein Defensivteam das dem Gericht überzeugen würde. Es gibt so viele Plotschritte in dieser Geschichte.
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Hanging out. Alright, our sources for this episode are A&E TV, ColumbiaTribune.com, South China Morning Post, CBSNews.com, Columbia Family Law Group, APNews.com, ColumbiaMissourian.com, KRCJTV.com and Komu.com. Okay, Garrett, give the listeners the quickest version of our proposal day that you can. Go.
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Wenn du deine Frau unabhängig findest, würdest du wahrscheinlich 911 anrufen. Du würdest sie nicht berühren. Also, während er Mung-Shi berührt, ist seine neunjährige Tochter allein im Auto.
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Er lässt seine neunjährige Tochter allein im Auto, um seine Frau zu berühren. Die Mutter. Okay, the details of this case just get worse and worse and worse. After 10 days of testimony, closing statements were made and the jury left to deliberate. And they found Joe not guilty of first degree murder, but guilty of second degree murder. They think that it was in the heat of the moment.
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So they recommended the judge give him 28 years in prison. This is one for every year of Munchies life and the judge agreed. But that wasn't it for Joe. He still had to face trial for those child abuse charges. Charges he pleaded not guilty to initially, but in February of 2022 finally changed his mind.
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He was then given an additional 10 years to his sentence, bringing his total time behind bars to 38 years. As of June 2024, Joe Elledge was trying to appeal his second-degree murder conviction, stating ineffective assistance of counsel.
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He said the defense brought in unqualified evidence and photographs that were irrelevant to the case and also said he was called as a witness by the defense when he wished to stay silent. Really, what he wanted was a last desperate attempt to control the narrative, just like he tried to control his wife. But in August of 2024, Joe's appeal was denied.
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As of this recording, he remains behind bars at the Southeast Correctional Center in Charleston, Missouri. And that is the closing of the case.
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Und ehrlich gesagt, Mung-Shi ist nicht die einzige Verletzte in diesem Fall. Wie wir oft sagen, ihre Eltern. Aber auch, es gibt eine 1-jährige Tochter, die nicht nur verletzt wurde, oder zumindest einmal, das wir kennen, auch jetzt ohne Eltern wächst.
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Ja, und dein Vater hat deine Mutter getötet, während du im Auto sitzt. Das ist... Actually awful. It's just completely heartless and there were so many minutes and hours that he could have changed that. That he could have decided not to do that. That is the case of Meng Shiji. Please keep her family in your thoughts today. You know, just remember that this is more than a true crime case.
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These are real people involved and I just want to Maybe take today to honor that. Thank you guys so much for listening to this week's episode. And we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
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That was great. I mean, you could have taken as long as you want. I just know you don't love telling a long story.
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Oh, no. I was just wanting you to tell them, because I think... Getting proposed to was a very surreal day for me. Was it surreal for you to propose? Oh, for sure. It's definitely one of those days that doesn't feel real while you're living it.
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Also, ähm, ich denke, es ist sicher zu sagen, dass es einer der besten Tage deines Lebens sein kann, ob der Spot in deinem Elterns-Haus ist oder ein sehnlicher Hike, oder unter dem Eiffeltower. Es kann einer der am meisten besonderen, vielleicht wichtigsten Orte in deiner Lebensgeschichte sein, wo du dir vorstellst, weil es der Startpunkt für den Rest deines Lebens ist.
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What no one ever imagines, though, in that glowing, happy moment where they say yes, is that this will also be the place where they end up buried after being viciously murdered. And that is what happens in the case today. So, our story today actually begins overseas in a city in central China known as Xi'an. And that's where Meng Shijie is born in 1991.
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Now, at the time, the nation was still enforcing their one-child policy. Und Mung Shihs Eltern haben alles in ihre kleine Mädchen verpackt, weil es das einzige Kind war, das sie erlaubt haben. Und in den ersten paar Jahren von Mung Shihs Leben war es klar, sie stand heraus. Sie war jemand Besonderes. Nicht nur war Mung Shih, die exzeptionell klug war.
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Sie war ein großer Künstler, ein Schauspieler und ein Kalligrafer, um es genau zu sagen. Fähigkeiten begann sie zu perfektionieren, als sie fünf Jahre alt war. So in elementary school, Meng Shi even began learning English. And by the time she was a teenager, she was also taking on photography. She had started singing and was playing a traditional Chinese instrument called the Arhu.
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So needless to say, Meng Shi proved she could do it all before she had even graduated high school. And when the time came for her to choose her next steps, she actually decided to fly the nest to get her bachelor's degree in engineering at the East China University of Science and Technology. But that meant a 14-hour drive whenever she wanted to go back and see her parents.
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So leaving college, she ends up being... So despite this, Mengshi's parents embraced all of her dreams, no matter where in the world they were going to take her. So when Mengshi was accepted to a student exchange program at the University of Missouri, she took the bull by the horns, with her parents' full love and support behind her.
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By December of 2014, the now 23-year-old Mengshi had earned her master's degree in mechanical aerospace engineering. The following year, fresh out of college, Mengshi landed a job working as a supervisor at a company called Nenova, which makes high-tech biomaterials mainly for dental products.
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Hey alle, willkommen zurück auf dem Podcast. Das ist Mörder mit meinem Mann. Ich bin Peyton Moreland.
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Es war dort, dass Mung She was told, she would be managing an all-American boy from Kansas City, Missouri, and his name was Joseph Elledge. Like Meng Shi, the 20-year-old Joseph also attended the University of Missouri for Engineering. But it seems the two didn't officially meet until that job at NANOVA in September of 2015.
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And even then, it took a little while for a work relationship to turn into a friendship and then to turn into a full-on romantic relationship. But in January of 2016, these co-workers... Joe and Meng Shi went on their first date.
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She's already come over and she's in Missouri. So things seemed to go well for the couple over the next year because in the summer of 2017, Mengshi asked Zhou if he would come with her to visit her parents back in China. And Zhou says yes. But he also has his own motivations for coming along. He wanted to ask Mengshi's parents for her hand in marriage.
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Okay, kurz, kurz, bevor wir anfangen. Wenn Sie auf dem Audio hören und uns eine 5-Star-Review geben können, nichts weniger, wäre das sehr wertvoll. Und wenn Sie auf YouTube schauen, haben Sie ein paar weitere Schritte. Sie müssen sich zu diesem Show abonnieren. Sie müssen die Notifikationen aufmachen und Sie müssen einen Kommentar lassen. I don't make the rules here, you guys.
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Apparently Joe really won them over on that trip because they gave him their blessing. So when they returned back to Missouri, Joe and Mengshi went for a hike in Rockbridge Memorial State Park in Missouri on September 8th of 2017. Und an diesem Tag, auf diesem Hike, in diesem Park, wurde Joe auf einem Knie runtergegangen und fragte Mengshi, ihn zu verheiraten. Und Mengshi sagte ja.
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Some people who knew the couple believed that this 14-day engagement was because Mengqi's visa was about to expire.
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And that the marriage would help her secure a green card easier. So if they're going to get married and they can make this process easier, why not just get married in 14 days? Okay. This is important to Mung-Shi, because about five months after tying the knot, she was offered a fancy new job opportunity. And while I don't know the details, I know it was something Mung-Shi was really excited about.
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And Joe apparently was too, because he had since quit his job at Nonova, where they met, to go back to school. So because Joe is going back to school, Mung-Shi ends up being the sole breadwinner.
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of this newly wedded couple but life had other plans for mung she and joe just as she was about to accept the new position mung she learned she was pregnant so now the tables would have to turn mung she wanted to stay home and be a full-time mom which meant joe would have to find a way to juggle school and work to support his growing family
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This is something that definitely put pressure on their marriage, especially when their daughter Anna arrived in October 2018. So, the issues in their marriage actually started with small cultural differences. It was actually mainly due to communication. Joe often tried to describe his feelings and frustrations with metaphors that Meng Shi had a hard time understanding.
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The way the two expressed themselves was entirely different due to their radically opposite upbringings. Und als Meng Shis Eltern nach Hause kamen, um mit ihrem neuen Baby zu helfen, begann Joe zu fühlen, dass er unbezahlbar ist. In Wahrheit hat er auch gesagt, dass er blind geblieben war.
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Es ist eigentlich traditionell in chinesischen Kulturen, dass die Großeltern nach Hause kommen und die Eltern für 100 Tage helfen, nachdem ein neues Baby herkommt. Aber Joe sagte, dass er keine Ahnung hatte, dass Meng Shis Eltern mit dem Paar leben würden, bis zum Tag, an dem sie an der Tür kamen, um Hilfe zu bekommen.
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Und Mung-Shi und Joe haben sich auf viele verschiedene Dinge verabschiedet, wenn es darum ging, ihre Tochter aufzubauen. Plus, Joe würde oft frustriert werden, wenn Mung-Shi mit ihren Eltern in Mandarin gesprochen hätte, weil er kaum die Sprache sprach. Joe soon found himself fighting with Mengshi and her parents over what he said was their imposing nature.
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I am just the message deliverer. So don't blame me.
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255. The Murder of Mengqi Ji
And inevitably, both of Mengshi's parents actually left early over the tensions that had escalated in the home. Das, zusammen mit ihren wendelnden Finanzen, ist sicher zu sagen, definitiv eine Wege zwischen dem jungen Paar. Und im Sommer 2019 spielten sie mehr Zeit apart.
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Joe hatte eine Unternehmensarbeit bei einer Furniturproduktion in der Stadt von Carthage, etwa vier Stunden Fahrt aus Columbia, Missouri, wo Munchie und Anna lebten. Das bedeutet, er würde in Carthage während der Woche sein. Und das bedeutet auch, dass Joe einen zweiten Platz haben musste. Jetzt war die Familie nicht nur an der Frage, einen Haushalt zu behalten, sie zahlten zwei.
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Und als Joe mit Anna und Mung-Shi in Kolumbien nach Hause ging, sagen wir einfach, dass die Raum, die sie genommen haben, nicht so viel geholfen hat. Mung-Shi war oft auf ihrem Telefon oder traurig über Anna, geben weniger und weniger von ihrer Aufmerksamkeit an Joe. So it was clear the two had just kind of grown apart at this point.
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But the 23-year-old Joe said he still tried to maintain the intimacy with 28-year-old Mung-Shi, particularly on the night of October 8th, 2019. So that evening, Joe is home and he claimed that after they put Anna to bed, he tried to give Mung-Shi a massage, hoping it would lead to some intimacy between the two of them. But Mung-Shi rejected him. She told him she had plans early the next morning.
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She didn't want to miss out on sleep. It was already almost 11 p.m.
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As we like to say, foreplay starts at the beginning of the day.
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So, it's almost 11 p.m. Joe said he went to sleep that night with Mengshi by his side. But when he woke up the next morning, according to him, Mengshi was already gone. Now, even though Joe still hasn't heard from Mengshi by the afternoon, he doesn't sound the alarm bells. But Mengshi's parents do. They speak to their daughter every single day.
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And the fact that they haven't heard from her by the evening of October 9th is worrisome. But they don't seem to call Joe. I mean, why would they? They don't have the best relationship with this guy. They're not even sure if he's at the house. So instead, they call one of Mengshi's friends who lives nearby and they ask them to go over to the house and check on her.
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And apparently, when the friend gets there, Joe is like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. She's not here. So crazy to me that there's literally just people out there like this. So, by the following day, October 10th, an entire... He hasn't seen her since the morning before. He lets the entire night go by. Joe finally does something about it. He doesn't call the police, though.
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sherry keeps pushing so these two sisters rile together and they're like we are going to solve this mystery and finally in 2002 she gets the seaside police back in california to look into mary's case and one of the first things they do is pull up mary's social security number and her history They find no sign that any of her information has been used since she went missing.
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She never opened credit cards up. She didn't have a job history. No welfare benefits had been collected. No school records, paychecks, arrest records. There was nothing. I mean, Mary literally is a ghost, which doesn't bode well for a runaway theory.
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When they speak to neighbors and people who lived in the area back during that time, they all say that they barely remember Charlotte or William Hull's family at all, let alone a little girl who had run away from the home. But police do find one thing that seems suspicious to them.
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Charlotte and William had still been cashing Mary's social security checks, the ones that were being sent to her from her father's account after his passing.
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So the police are now thinking, William and Charlotte also had a motive to kill Mary.
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But things get really weird in 2003 when Kathy leads detectives back to that seaside home. So she's like, this is where we were living. This is what I remember about that night. She tells them, her mother and stepfather, when they lived there, were very strict about the kids not playing in one particular corner of the yard, that they were scolded whenever they went near it.
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So detectives get a team of cadaver dogs out to the house shortly after hearing that. And all four of those dogs pick up a smell in the exact corner of the yard where the girls were not allowed to play. Which is pretty remarkable that after all these years, They look into this case and honestly seem to be getting answers kind of quickly.
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So the next step is having a team come out and excavate that part of the property.
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We didn't even know a girl went missing and now you're alluding to the fact that she's in our yard?
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Or would it just be too hard? I don't know. I don't think that's disrespectful to the victim.
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So they excavate the property and what do they find?
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They find a little girl's shoe buried in that corner of the yard. There is no sign of a body. Now the team handling the cadaver dog says, look, our dogs have never missed a mark before. At one point, there was a body buried on this property.
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So in order for us to keep the show running with all of the stuff we have going on now, we do have to put ads in the show. So thank you for being patient and engaging and supporting us through this journey. All right, Garrett, take it away with your 10 seconds.
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Sie glauben, dass das Körper an irgendeinem Punkt gewechselt worden ist. Das ist der einzige Weg, den die Vögel getroffen hätten, und es gäbe keinen Körper. Und wenn einer der Detektivs Cathy anzieht und ihr ein Bild der Schuhe zeigt, die sie gefunden hat, sagt sie, ja, wir hatten so Sneakers als Kinder. Ja.
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Also, an diesem Punkt denken die Detektivs, okay, es ist Zeit, dass wir die Eltern für ein Interview nachdenken. So keep in mind at this point, it has been more than 20 years since Mary Day disappeared. And shockingly, Charlotte and William Hull are still together. Detectives find that they're now both living in Kansas.
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williams sense left the army and was working as a corrections officer at a local prison and charlotte i don't know what she was doing but police figure they're gonna start with charlotte first see what they can get out of her about the day mary disappeared wow could you imagine he's a corrections officer and he killed a little girl right so based on what kathy and sherry have to say
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I mean, to them, Charlotte seemed complicit or at least aware that something had happened to Mary that day. So please go to her about her missing daughter that she never reported missing. And here's what she says. She starts off the interview insisting Mary ran away. In fact, she says Mary had run away so many times as a kid that she had actually lost count.
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Sie beschreibt Mary als ein, quote, Nightcrawler aus einem Wurmhole und nur es zu holen und es war weg. Aber die Polizei lässt sie nicht weg, ohne sie einige der schwersten Fragen zu stellen. Und die größte Frage ist, wenn deine Tochter weggegangen ist und nicht nach Hause gekommen ist, deine junge Tochter, warum hast du die Polizei nicht gerufen?
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And she says, well, we should have. But then she sort of changes her tune and she says, actually, I thought this whole time that William did file a report with the nearby Salinas Police Department. Only they have no record of that happening. So according to police, there's also something really strange about Charlotte's body language during this interview.
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She is slumped down in her chair for most of that discussion and she's saying cagey things like, well, you know, sometimes you do things in your past and it just comes back. But if that didn't convince police that something was up, then it might have been what Charlotte said next. Sie hat gesagt, ich meine, wenn sie tot ist, ist sie tot.
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Das ist, was sie über ihre Tochter in der Interview sagt, die weggegangen ist.
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Cops are like, you don't even care. You're not even worried about your daughter. You never reported her missing. You're talking so callously and coldly about your daughter. So Charlotte's not doing herself any favors and she's not doing William any favors either because he's called in to speak with the police next. Und was er sagt, ist nicht viel anders als Charlotte.
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Er sagt, an der Nacht, als Mary verschwand, haben sie sich in einen Kampf über den Hund getroffen, wie Cathy gesagt hat. Er war sicher, dass Mary versucht hat, das Tier zurückzubeißen, weil sie ihn nicht mag. Und nach dem Kampf, William sagte, er ging Raum zu Raum, um die Kinder zu beobachten. Aber dann, als er zurückgekommen ist, war sie weg.
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Und er hat Charlotte gesagt, und sie haben beide panikiert und sie haben die Polizei angerufen. Nun wieder, es gibt kein Rekord dieses Telefonrufes. But as detectives press further, they learn William isn't telling the whole truth because he changes his tune a little while later. So in his first interview, he changes his story.
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And this time he says, okay, I actually hit her five or six times after I thought she poisoned my dog. So he admits to it because Kathy did see her in the corner being hit and covered in blood.
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He says, and then she tried to run out of the house, but I wouldn't let her go. He says he grabbed Mary, but she fought back, kicking and screaming. And William says, at that point, I hit her in the throat. Holy crap.
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William actually makes this shape with his hands to detectives. It's kind of like a martial arts move. Like a karate chop move. And he says he may have used that on Mary, but he was sure he didn't kill her. However, Charlotte told him the next morning that she saw the devil in Williams' eye that night. Und er sagt es der Polizei.
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Er sagt, ich habe sie nicht getötet, aber am nächsten Morgen hat meine Frau aufgewacht und gesagt, ich habe den Teufel in deinen Augen gestern Nacht gesehen. Und er denkt, er war eigentlich in der Nacht besitzt von einigen dämlichen Kräften, als hätte er sich übernommen. Aber er hat nicht, er hat Mary nicht getötet, aber vielleicht hat er einen Dämonen innerhalb von ihm.
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They're not. William has changed his story in a second. I didn't kill her, but maybe a demon inside of me did, because even Charlotte remembers seeing the devil in my eyes.
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So, I mean, William is practically admitting to murder.
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So police have what is essentially a confession. They have a crime scene. They have cadaver dogs who are responding to decomposition. Soil samples that have been tested are consistent with a body having been buried in that backyard. Not to mention we have eyewitness statements from Mary's sisters. I mean, they have an entire case in front of them.
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The DA is literally getting ready to file charges about nine months after those interviews. when the absolute unthinkable happens. It's November 2003. And over in Phoenix, Arizona, a police officer stops a pickup truck for having stolen plates. And he takes the IDs of the passengers in the car, as well as the driver, and he runs them.
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One of the passengers is a 35-year-old woman named Mary Louise Day. Now, Mary Day could be a common name. I mean, Mary Day, sure.
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There must be something in their system when they run it that pops up that she hasn't like Mary Day, who would now be 35, has a missing person report. Or maybe the case was talked about enough that they knew the police in California were investigating this disappearance.
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I'm really not sure, but I do know that the lead detective on Mary's case gets a call that same night from Phoenix saying, hey, we pulled over someone and we think she's the missing person, the missing girl. Und wenn sie das Bezeichnungsbild von Mary Day sehen, sieht es aus wie ein Bild von der Vergangenheit von der letzten Bezeichnung von Mary, als sie 13 Jahre alt war, bevor sie vermisst wurde.
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So not only does this woman have a driver's license tied to Mary's social security number, she looks just like the girl that they were certain had been murdered. Here's the thing though, that driver's license Mary had that night, it had only been issued three weeks before she was pulled over. Police find that timing a little suspicious, especially since they are about to press charges for murder.
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So they're like, we need to do some due diligence. So one of the seaside California detectives on the case, a man named Joe Bertana, flies over to Phoenix to speak with Mary Day. So less than 48 hours ago, Joe was supporting the DA's case to file charges for murder.
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Jetzt ist dieser Detektiv in Kalifornien, anscheinend sieht er die Gefährtin gerade vor ihm, lebendig und gut, was wahrscheinlich ein bisschen mit seinem Kopf verbirgt, aber vielleicht weil Joe so hart an diesem Verbrechen über das Jahr gearbeitet hat, hat er eine schwierige Zeit, zu glauben, dass dies Mary Day ist. Ja, also nennt er sie Phoenix Mary. Für den Moment.
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246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Er wird sie nicht mal als Mary Day bezeichnen. Und wenn er zu ihr spricht, denkt er, es gibt etwas ein bisschen anders über ihre Geschichten. Ich meine, diese Frau sagt ihm, ich bin nach Hause in Kalifornien gestorben, und ich habe nie zurückgeguckt. Und von dort aus lebte sie auf den Straßen und hat einfach das, was sie brauchte, um all diese Jahre zu verbringen.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
She's pretty vague about where she's been all this time. But when Joe asks her some questions about her childhood, she remembers some details really vividly. And then she doesn't remember other things at all. And Joe finds this super suspicious, which to me, I mean, sounds like a normal childhood, like some things stick, some things don't. I imagine that happens even more.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
If you've dealt with trauma. But there's also something about Mary's demeanor that is just rubbing Detective Joe the wrong way. Which is why he's actually not totally sold, even after talking to her that this is the girl who disappeared back in 1981. Aber schau, Phoenix Mary ist nicht unter Arrest.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Sie hat hier nichts falsch gemacht, also muss sie wirklich nicht mit der Polizei sprechen, wenn sie es nicht will. Also geht sie zurück in ihr Leben und Joe fährt zurück nach Kalifornien, einige Tage später. Aber bevor das, er sagt Mary, ihm einen Anruf zu geben, wenn sie anfängt, etwas zu erinnern. He wants to help her put the pieces of the puzzle together. And she actually takes him up on it.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
A few days later, Mary calls Joe to say she's had some pretty disturbing memories come up, including the night that she ran away.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Well, the soil has evidence of decomposition in the backyard.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So, she says that that evening, as she's been thinking about it, she remembers her stepfather William getting angry with her and slamming her head into the bathtub. Mary's crying on the phone as she's telling him these painful memories, telling Joe how she remembers bleeding, then getting her head slammed into a coffee table and then blacking out.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
When Joe asks her what the fight was over, Mary's like... I can't remember. She can't remember anything about a sick dog, even when prompted by Joe. And that bothers him too. It doesn't sit well with him that Mary doesn't remember what caused the fight. But again, in my mind... This is trauma. This is trauma.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Because of this, Mary starts to get sort of frustrated with Detective Joe on this call because she throws him a curveball in a way he wasn't expecting. She says to him, quote, Okay, Joe, if you were to find my body, how are you going to be able to prove who the hell I was? Und Joe sagt, DNA.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Und Murray sagt, okay, also seit ich noch lebendig bin, kannst du DNA benutzen, um zu beweisen, wer ich bin? Joe weiß nicht, ob sie seinen Bluff anruft, aber jetzt, dass er weiß, dass sie DNA geben will, entscheidet er, einen DNA-Test zu machen. Aber hier ist das Ding.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
there's no old existing dna from mary yeah so nothing's gonna come up or man she's been missing for two decades so police figure the next best thing is seeing if she is a match as charlotte's daughter okay but joe's not holding his breath that it will come back positive but when the results from mary's test do come back what the freak is going on dude it confirms that phoenix mary
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So, this confirmation is a game changer for Mary's sisters. They also had their doubts about Phoenix Mary at first, but now hearing that she shares their DNA, they're like, this is our missing sister. We found her. So Sherry reaches out to Mary, even asks her if she wants to come stay with her family in North Carolina for a while. I mean, it's pretty incredible, really.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Sherry, Mary and Kathy have this beautiful reunion, but it's not time to roll the credits on this story just yet. Because the longer Mary stays with Sherry and her family, the more these little things come up. Things that get even her sisters to start questioning her identity again. For example, Mary has this thick southern accent.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
And when experts listen to tapes of her speaking, they say, this accent is so thick that she had to have been living in the South in her formative years. So up until ages 9 or 10 to have developed it. Which, okay, an accent isn't exactly a reason to write her off, except when Kathy talks to Mary about the inheritance their father left them, Mary's like, what are you talking about?
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Und Kathy versucht, sie mit dem Mohawk-Wort zu klären. Und sie ist so, ich weiß nicht, worüber du sprichst. Und dann später sieht Sherry, dass Mary ein Magazin hat, mit ihrem Adress auf es. Nur der Name, der zu diesem Stück Mail verbunden ist, ist nicht Marys.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Well, the name on the magazine, it's Monica DeVero. And this causes suspicion because they're like, why does her magazine have a different name on it? And why doesn't she remember things? So now Sherry and Kathy get together and they're thinking, okay, Were we wrong? Are we wrong again? Is something not right here? Their guts telling them something is still off.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So only a year after moving in with Sherry, Mary is back on her own. And when Sherry and Kathy express these concerns to police, they come up with another theory. Maybe Phoenix Mary isn't the original Mary, but a secret daughter that Charlotte had had. And when she learned that Mary had been missing, she came forward and identified herself as Mary.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Because the DNA confirms she was related to Charlotte. And witnesses say it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that Charlotte had strayed from her marriage at some point, had another kid, gave it away. She'd given her children over to the foster care system before. Maybe Charlotte and William reached out to this estranged child once the police were getting close to arresting them.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Maybe they paid her to pretend to be Mary so they could get away with it. Gave her Mary's birth certificate, her social security card, possibly even promised her some of the inheritance.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
why would she move in though that's what's crazy too like if you're maybe she wanted a place to stay for free i guess so it's just that's a i mean it's a wild theory yeah that's it's i mean sketchy it is actually a wild theory what are the chances that she has a secret daughter no one knows about that can come in and save the day i mean it's plausible though considering who these people are i feel like it's pretty possible
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Police come forward and they're like, is this what happened? And she's like, no, this isn't the case. She hasn't used her birth name since she ran away from home. And Monica was the name she gave herself to protect herself. She's like, I didn't use Mary when I left. And she says the accent is just part of my rebrand too.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
But still weird evidence keeps creeping up to show that Phoenix Mary is just not the missing Mary.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Like at one point after Mary moved in with Sherry, she wrote an email to Detective Joe and it said something sketchy. It said, quote, I've been lying to you about who I am. And then there aren't any more details than that. But in 2008, things really hit the fan. It's been five years since Missing Mary has resurfaced. So police never charged them with murder.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So now you have not one but two homes belonging to Charlotte and William where cadaver dogs are saying a body was once buried. So Detective Sink, okay, this family is burying a body, then re-dinging it up and moving it with them when they move houses.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
That's wild. It's a commitment. So to test this theory, police excavate the property and again they find nothing. But now we have two potential crime scenes and zero arrests because as far as the law is concerned, Mary Day is alive and well. But the police and Mary's sisters still have their doubts. These are doubts that persist until 2017. Mary is now 49 years old.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
She's living alone in Missouri and her health is failing.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
She's actually dying of cancer. Und es ist um diese Zeit, dass ein neuer Investigator in der Seaside-Polizei, namens Judy Veloz, entscheidet, einen Blick auf Marys Fall zu nehmen, mit einem frischen Paar Augen, weil, auch wenn es technisch geschlossen ist, die Polizei sagt, das ist seltsam. Und Judy beginnt mit der konkreten Beweise, die sie hat, dieser Schuh.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Judy sagt, dass sie die Schuhe in der Palme ihrer Hand befinden kann. Es ist klein, also ist es tatsächlich nicht eine Schuhe, die eine 13-jährige Mädchen befinden würde, die vielleicht getötet und dann geboren hätte. Also fühlt sie sich, als ob sie das Stück ausruhen kann. Aber das ist, wenn Judy eine Besuchung mit Mary macht.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Und sie will, dass sie ihre Seite der Geschichte bekommt und das Rekord direkt setzt. Was wirklich zu ihr passiert ist, all diese Jahre zuvor. Also wieder in 2017. Mary ist jetzt krank und die Polizei kommt wieder zu ihr. Und Mary sagt ihr, sie hat den Namen Monika gewählt, weil sie nicht wollte, dass die Polizei sie findet und sie zurückbringt zu William und Charlottes Haus.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
I know that seems crazy for a raccoon, but we were very close up to them. And you'll see on the video, they kind of use their paws like Daisy and they kind of have a cute face. But I was so scared because they were eating chocolate.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Und der Akzent, der neue Name war alles für sie, um frei von ihrem Vergangenheit zu bleiben. Aber sie gibt Judy auch einen grundlegenden Detail. Sie sagt ihr den Namen einer Frau, die sie an einem Punkt, nachdem sie weggegangen ist, mitgenommen hat. Her name was Maury Kimmel. Now, Maury said she met Mary in California about two years after she ran away.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Mary was 15 when Maury invited her to come stay with her and her two young daughters. Maury said she welcomed her with open arms and Mary fit in well with their family. But after only a year, Mary ran away one night without saying goodbye.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
One of Maury's relatives even has proof of this story, because she has a photo of Mary with the family, just a little older than she was when she ran away from the Hools. And when that photo is given to a facial recognition company, it confirms with 99% accuracy that that girl in the photo is Mary Day. What? No way. So it's true? Like this is, it's Mary?
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Well, sure, you have all those gaps in the memories, but Judy again is like, I know the first detectives didn't believe this, but Mary had dealt with substance abuse and alcoholism early on in life, and it was traumatic.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So as she's dying, Judy, the new detective, is talking to Mary and she's emotional. It was a confusing time in her life. But she was always who she claimed to be. And with Judy's new report on Mary Day, the investigation is finally closed. The police decide Mary Day never died back in 1981, despite what everyone thought.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
She did run away. She got a second chance at life. The report came out just in time for Sherry to read it, accept the truth and make peace with Mary. All before Mary passed away from cancer that same year in 2017. So the case is closed and then Mary passes away.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
They now do because of that facial recognition proving that that was Mary Day two years after she ran away. What are the chances that she was then killed two years after being proven alive?
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
She ran away and wanted to start a new life. She was scared the state would return her to the family if she got caught.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Ich meine, wenn mein Vater-in-Land-Vater meinen Kopf in eine Kaffee-Tasche und einen Kaffee-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen-Taschen
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
This is why at the beginning I said sometimes these cases are so obvious. We just see the pattern. If a parent doesn't report a child missing and there's sexual, emotional and physical abuse in the family with the history this family has had, it felt open and shut. You're like, the parents killed her that night.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Ja. Aber ich meine, es gibt viele Beweise. Und Mary ging zu ihrem Todesbett, und sagte, nein, ich bin wirklich Mary Day.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Okay, Leute. Das war unser sehr verwirrendes Episode für diese Woche. Und wir sehen uns nächste Woche mit einem anderen. Ich liebe es.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
And just kicked us right out of our seats. Like did not even care.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Our sources for this episode are cbsnews.com, usatoday.com, thecinemaholic.com, dailymail.com, paramountpressexpress.com, heavy.com and sandhillsexpress.com. So when you cover a lot of true crime cases like we do, you do start to see a pattern. I mean, it's been over four years of murder with my husband. And I think it is safe to say that we do see patterns.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everybody and welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
suspicious patterns case to case to case you recognize signs you kind of pick up on the red flags for example when someone's child disappears kidnapping if you will and they don't report them missing you are like that's weird that's suspicious and if there's blood at the scene of the crime where the child went missing well then game over, right?
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
But the case we are covering today calls a lot of those red flags, the things that we would normally be like, nope, signs still delivered, into question. Because the story we're covering, Mary Day's story, is so full of twists and turns that it will make you realize, just because we see patterns and have these preconceived notions about how things probably went in this true crime case,
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
It actually doesn't necessarily mean that that's what happened. So it's 1968 and we are in the sleepy town of Little Falls, New York. On February 19th, 1968, Charlotte Pressler and Charles Day welcome their first daughter together into the world. A little girl they name Mary Louise Day. Now over the next three years, their family continues to grow as they welcome two more little girls.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Kathie und dann Sherry. Also zusammen, Charlotte und Charles haben Mary, die älteste, Kathie und dann Sherry. Aber das Leben der Dave-Familie war weit von einem perfekten kleinen Norman Rockwell-Bild. Charlotte und Charles, die Eltern, hatten ihre vielfältigen Probleme.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Wow, it feels so good to be back recording. We took a little hiatus and we're traveling, but we're back. We're so ready. It's basically Christmas. Garrett's looking nice and tan. Thank you. And... We have our black Christmas tree on set. So if you're listening on audio, just know. Boom! Christmas Joy through your headphones.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Und obwohl ich nicht genau sicher bin, was hinter geschlossenen Türen passiert ist, weiß ich, dass die drei kleinen Mädchen in und aus dem Pflegehaus waren für die ersten mehrere Jahre ihres Lebens. Und es war während dieser Zeit, dass Charlotte, die Mutter, bemerkte, dass sie Charles aus ihrem Leben für gut brauchen musste. Und so verabschiedete sie ihren Mann. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
But instead of finding her way on her own and working towards getting her three girls back from foster care, Charlotte found a new man instead, and his name was William Houle. Now, Charlotte and William go on to have two more children together. Und dann schlussendlich regiert Charlotte die Behandlung von Mary und ihrer mittleren Tochter Kathy.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Aber bis zu diesem Punkt hatte ihre jüngste Tochter Sherry bereits von ihrer Förderfamilie adoptiert, was bedeutet, dass die Schwestern nicht mehr unter dem selben Ruf zusammen leben würden.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Aber Charlotte hat nicht einmal versucht, für Sherry, ihre jüngste Tochter, zu kämpfen oder zu sehen, dass sie zu nahe ist, weil sie zwei Jahre später und ihre neue Familie über die ganze Welt nach Hawaii geflogen sind. Charlottes neuer Mann, William, war tatsächlich in der Armee und hatte sich zu einer Basis da wiederentwickelt.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Und obwohl Mary und Kathy das als einen neuen Start gesehen haben, sind sie aus der Pflegerkasse zurück mit ihrer Mutter. Life was not done throwing these sisters curveballs. So only a few months after the family moved to Hawaii, the girls received news that their father, Charles, had passed away.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
The 10-year-old Mary and 8-year-old Kathy learned that because of this, they would be receiving a substantial inheritance once they turned 18. And that's when Mary and Kathy began dreaming of what life could be like for them when they grew older. With money to come into, they stayed up late into the night whispering about their plans for the future together.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
And they even had a secret code name for the inheritance when they talked about it. And according to Kathy, the word they used was Mohawk. mohawk all right now you're probably wondering why two little girls would need to have a code word to talk about the inheritance money especially at 10 and 8 years old who's talking about money that young like really understanding the concept of what that means
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Well, I think to them it meant, you know, we've had this really rough life so far in and out of foster care, now moved all the way to Hawaii, separated from our youngest sister. It probably meant freedom to them.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Die Realität war, dass die Situation, in der sie jetzt in Hawaii war, mit Charlotte und ihrem neuen Mann William und ihren beiden Kindern, nicht eine schöne war. Es war offensichtlich, dass es viele physische, emotionale und sexuelle Verbrechen in der Wohnung von William gab. So much so that in December of 1980, two years after moving to Hawaii, Mary was back in protective custody.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
And I don't know if it was Mary herself that reported the abuse or a neighbor or a friend, but I know that Mary spent another significant amount of time out of her mother and stepfather's care. Though, unlike her sister Sherry, it didn't stay permanent. In Januar 1981 wurde William zu Fort Ord in Seaside, Kalifornien geflüchtet.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Aber nur ein paar Monate nach dem Angriff wurde Mary wieder in Charlotte und Williams Verwaltung verabschiedet. Das ist also das zweite Mal, dass Charlotte ihre Tochter zurückgebracht hat. Now, I have no idea how something like this could happen.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
I think with the history of this family, it probably isn't great for her to return, especially because the reason she was taken away was because of the danger William was putting her in. I have to imagine that back in the 80s, the foster care system was even more flawed than it is today. But regardless, Mary finds herself on a plane to California.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
And as you can imagine, life didn't improve there for Mary. I mean, she's now reunited with Kathy, but life isn't better. From what I can tell, neither of the girls or the couple's other two children ever enrolled in school in California.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
They had no friends from the area or anyone that they could talk to about what was going on at home, which sounds like it might have been by design this time, because only a few months after Mary moved back in with the family, Something really strange happened in that home. Und lass uns sagen, es war eine Nacht, die die Leute seit Jahrzehnten nachgedacht haben.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Eines Abends, 1981, gingen William und Charlotte zu Abend. Und vermutlich haben sie 13-jährige Mary verlassen, um ihre drei jüngeren Brüder zu beobachten. Während die Eltern draußen waren, erinnerte Kathy an Williams Hund, der sehr krank war und in der Küche schlug. But when William and Charlotte returned a few hours later, William had conjured up his own theory about what had happened.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
And he started screaming at the girls because the dog got sick, but he mostly focused his wrath on Mary, who they had put in charge. He began accusing her of poisoning his dog. Und Kathy, ihre jüngere Schwester, sagte, das war, als alles in der Hölle losging. Sie sagte, William folgte Mary in eine Rückseite und begann, sie in die Runde zu schießen.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Und Kathy sagte, das letzte Mal, als sie sich an ihre Schwester Mary erinnerte, war an dieser Nacht, als sie in der Runde in Blut geblieben war. Now seemingly Kathy was sent to her room and went to bed that night not knowing what happened to Mary next. The last thing she knows is William beating her and her covered in blood in the bedroom and then she's sent to bed.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So the following morning though, Kathy wakes up, the other two sisters wake up Und Mary ist nirgendwo zu finden. Kathie hat natürlich Fragen über ihre Schwester gefragt. Was ist mit Mary? Wo ist sie? Kommt sie nach Hause? Aber ihre Mutter Charlotte würde nur sagen, dass Mary weggegangen ist und sie wahrscheinlich nicht zurückkommt. Obwohl Kathie nur 11 Jahre alt ist, ist sie nervös.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Sie hat Angst, dass etwas Böses zu ihrer Schwester passiert ist. But what's an 11-year-old really gonna do about something like this? Especially because she doesn't go to school, she can't go tell a teacher. And if Charlotte and William did believe Mary ran away, then it was on them to file a missing persons report.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Only days turned into weeks, which turned into months, and no one ever told the authorities that Mary Day was missing.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
But with Mary not enrolled in school and the girls being somewhat new to the area with no real friends, the only people that even knew Mary was gone was her siblings and parents. Which makes you wonder, did Mary really run away that night or after Kathy and the other girls had gone to bed, did something more sinister happen to Mary?
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So this question eats away at Kathy for years. And it probably only got harder when the family picked up and moved again. And this time all the way back to their original home state of New York.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Kathy wakes up one day, her sister's gone and the parents are like, she ran away.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So there is one silver lining in all of this though. And it's that Kathy is now closer in proximity to her younger sister Sherry. Remember the one who had been adopted by her foster family. So Sherry gets to visit Charlotte and Kathy from time to time. She comes home to visit her birth mom and her sister Kathy. And she's like, um, where's Mary? My oldest sister. What happened to Mary?
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
But Kathy warns her. Das ist verrückt. Was? Sie würde das sagen. Und je älter die Mädchen wurden, desto weniger glaubten sie, dass ihre Schwester weggegangen wäre. Sie hat nichts gemacht, um sie zu beantworten, um sie zu versuchen, nach Hause zu kommen, um sie zu finden. Also zu Sherry und Kathy.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Die Wahrheit über ihre Schwester sah offensichtlich aus, als sie in Erwachsenen grew und begann, sich zurückzudenken auf ihre Kindheit und kind of getting out in the world. And they believe that back on that night in 1981, Mary must have been murdered.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
Thank you to everyone who supports us on Patreon and Apple subscriptions. Like Garrett said, it is ad-free over there. And a reminder that if we put a podcast out without ads, we do not get paid for our work. The platforms that you listen on do not pay us for putting podcasts up. Only the ad companies pay us for putting podcasts up.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
So when Mary's youngest sister Sherry turns 18, one of the very first things she does is go to the police and file a missing persons report for her sister.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
I mean, I'm sure she had went and said, hey, my sister's missing. They probably would take in her seriously. But I think this was like the most official way to file the report. I see that.
Murder With My Husband
246. What Happened to Mary Day?
This is 13 years after Mary goes missing. And Sherry marches in and says, my sister is missing. I need to file a report. Now, for whatever reason, police don't do much with this information. I mean, they get that it happened over a decade ago. So maybe they figure there's really not much to do now. But with Kathy's help,
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Es ist der Hauptingredient in Eyedrops.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Aber ich möchte es klar machen. Das ist nicht nur wie Tracemounts in ihrem Blut. Das war nicht etwas, was sie mit Eyedrops in ihrem Auge bekommen hat.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
The Toxicology Report finds so much that they feel confident Lynn ingested eye drop medication orally and tetrahydrozoline can be very lethal if you have enough of it. Here's the problem though. They're like, okay, we think this is actually what killed her. It wasn't any of those drugs. Okay. But that doesn't totally rule out the idea of suicide.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
I mean, a toxicology report can't tell you whether someone drank eyedrops willingly or not. Only that there was a scary amount in her that caused her death.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So when this report comes out in 2019, police have already had some suspicions about the person who found Lynn dead that October day, as you know, mainly because everyone else is kind of pointing the finger at her. Yeah. And that's Jesse. And so they start heavily looking into Jesse once they begin to think that this might be a murder, right? And here's what they find.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Let's just say after looking into Jesse, they do not think that Lynn took those eyedrops on her own. So it turns out, Jessie wasn't some selfless friend of Lynn's who was dedicating her life to try and nurse her back to health to thank her for the years of friendship. Jesse hatte eigentlich ein bisschen einen kriminellen Hintergrund.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
In Wahrheit, bis zum Februar 2016, etwa zweieinhalb Jahre bevor Lynn gestorben ist, war Jesse im Gefängnis für Verbrechen und Identitätsverbrechen. Kurz danach, als Lynn anfing, sich schmerzhaft zu fühlen und vielleicht wollte, dass Jesse an ihren Beinen zurückkommt, fragte Lynn Jesse, ob sie ihr Anwesender wäre und Lynn sie in Rückwirkung bezahlen würde.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
zumindest das ist, was Jesse gesagt hat, richtig, also sie kommt aus der Gefängnis, Lynn, die sich wirklich um sie kümmert, sagt, ich habe mich nicht gut gefühlt, du kannst mich kümmern und ich werde dich kümmern, das ist, was Jesse gesagt hat und im Juni 2016, nur ein paar Monate nachdem Jesse von der Gefängnis ausgeliefert wurde, begannen große Teile des Geldes, Lynn's Account zu verlassen und dann beginnt Jesse, Kreditkarten aus Lynn's Name zu nehmen, sie beginnt, sich von Lynn's Accounts zu schreiben,
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Nun, es ist sehr möglich, dass Lynn das wusste, vielleicht sogar wollte, um Jesse auszulösen, besonders wenn sie fühlte, als würde sie nicht die Chance haben, ihre Erhaltung selbst zu spenden. Und ich sage das, weil Lynn dementsprechend Jesse, zusammen mit ihrem gewonnenen Bruder Anthony, eine Beneficiärin auf ihrer Wille im Jahr 2018.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Aber es ist auch möglich, dass Lynn nur Jesse vertraut, um sie zu helfen, ihre Finanzen zu managen. Aber anstatt dieses Geld zu verwenden, um zu sagen, ich weiß nicht, pay off Lynn's mortgage, hat Jesse das Geld direkt in ihre eigene Account. I can tell you for a fact, that's what happened during Lynn's last hospital stay. This was in October of 2018, the month she died.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
While Lynn was being cared for by doctors, her caretaker Jesse was treating it like a little vacation. She was transferring money from Lynn's account and dropping it directly into hers, only to withdraw that money from an ATM at a nearby casino. And even shadier. Ich meine, ja, klar, offensichtlich.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Und auch, wenn Lynn tot ist, wie werden ihre Kreditkarten benutzt? Ich weiß nicht, weißt du, was ich meine? Leute sind dumm. Obviously, we know it wasn't Lynn who made that purchase, though the biggest transaction actually came a few weeks after that, when a fraudulent check made out to Jesse from Lynn's checkbook was cashed for $130,000.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Ich glaube, das wäre eine Verpflichtung. Ich glaube nicht, dass sie 90 Jahre alt sein würden.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So between February 2016, when she was released from prison, to October of 2018, when Lynn died, Jesse had $144,000 of Lynn's now in her name.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So no wonder Anthony was in shock when he followed up on his portion of the inheritance and was like, there's nothing left. And that's because slowly, as Lynn was still alive, Jesse had been draining it to herself. And Lynn had just a bunch of unpaid credit card debt left in her name because Jesse had taken all of it out and then some.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
But you're probably wondering, why would Jesse want Lynn dead, especially if she had already stolen everything from her, like she already had the money. Well, guess what? If you're a beneficiary on someone's will, there's a lot more you can cash in on. Mortgages, cars, jewelry, other stuff you can liquidate. And Jesse knew this.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So did the police. So once they untangled Jesse's entire scheme, they have more than enough to arrest her on identity theft and wire fraud charges. Especially because this is definitely a violation against her parole, considering that Lynn's dead, so she couldn't consent to any of this. Remember, she was initially in prison for these same exact charges.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So in July of 2019, Jessie is placed in handcuffs and brought in for questioning. Nun, die Polizei interviewt Jesse sechs Mal in den nächsten paar Tagen, weil sie eine versteckte Überraschung haben, dass Jesse nicht nur von Lynn stehlt. Sie war wahrscheinlich auch, dass sie sie verpustet und sie krank hält.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Also, je tiefer sie sich um sie beantworte, desto tiefer scheint Jesse sich in ein Loch zu werfen. The first day, they admittedly didn't get a whole lot out of her. She mostly tries to convince them Lynn was giving her that money, a gift for taking care of her. She says Lynn had been looking for ways to die by suicide for a while.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
She'd been taking a bunch of medications, was looking for ways to spend her money before she died, which is why she was giving Jesse control over it. But then the police give her a little something to see if she'll take the bait. They tell Jesse, well... You know, the medical examiner found something called Tetrahydrosaline in her system. They also tell her that's the main ingredient in eyedrops.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And Jessie's quick to respond. Oh, well, Lynn used eyedrops all the time. And the police are like, no, she didn't overdose from putting these in her eyes. She drank these eyedrops. In fact, we think someone gave her these eyedrops via poisoning. Now Jesse's catching on. She says to the police, do you think I killed her? And she's swearing up and down, I didn't.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So the police send her back to herself for the night. But they have some information from Jesse's boyfriend, Scott, that indicates she had experience with ingesting eyedrops herself.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
I think so. I think I've heard of this before.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
in lethal amount i think a lot of things i mean i guess everything is in a certain amount but yeah So apparently Scott shared some text messages they exchanged three months after Lynn died. He turns them over to the police. Jesse went to a bar one night and messaged Scott some hours later saying she was in the hospital. She claimed she hadn't been feeling good and her blood pressure had dropped.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
The text from Jesse also said that after having some blood work done, doctors found trace amounts of tetrahydrosaline in her system. And that the doctor told her she might have been drugged by someone at the bar and people slip eyedrops into drinks all the time. Sie sagt auch Scott, dass sie davon gestorben hätte. Es gibt viel darüber, was komisch und alarmierend ist.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Das ist drei Monate nach dem Tod von Lynn. Ich weiß nicht, ob Jessie versucht hat, Sehnsüchte zu pflanzen, dass das jemandem passieren könnte, dass es einen mystischen Verbrecher gibt, der versucht hat, jemanden mit Augenbrauen zu töten. Zuerst Lynn, jetzt sie. Ich weiß nicht, ob sie eigentlich ins Krankenhaus ging. Es ist möglich, dass sie das ganze Ding gemacht hat, um Aufmerksamkeit zu bekommen.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Aber das Wichtigste ist, dass Jessie klar wusste, dass ingestierte Eindrücke jemanden töten könnten, bevor die Polizei ihr über den Toxikologie-Report erzählt hat. Und trotzdem hat sie die Polizei in der letzten Interview dumm gespielt, indem sie sagte, dass Lynn Eindrücke in ihren Augen immer verwendet hat.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jessie weiß, dass sie sich in dieser Interview verletzt hat, weil sie nach einer anderen Nacht hinter den Bars rauskommt und zu Detektiven kommt und fragt, können wir wieder sprechen? This time she gives him a little bit more. She says, okay, Lynn, she used to mix eyedrops with her vodka sometimes. She says she'd actually known of at least three different times when Lynn did this, maybe more.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
But Jesse tells him, I promise I never gave it to her. This was her decision. I had nothing to do with it. Cut to the next day. Jesse requests to be back in front of investigators again. And this time she's like, so Lynn, she actually used to drink it because it gave her a buzz, made her sleepy. She didn't think she was going to die from it. So now Jesse's saying, maybe Lynn wasn't suicidal.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Maybe this just helped her sleep better. And she hadn't done it just three times. Maybe she had been drinking it for at least the last two months of her life. So her Story is just like everywhere. She also tells them that on the day Lynn died, Jesse stopped over there in the morning and learned that Lynn had mixed six bottles of Visine with a bottle of water and told her she was drinking it.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jesse says she spent 10 minutes that morning trying to talk her out of it, but when she realized she couldn't win the argument, she left. So now police are just completely speechless because the woman has been lying to them for the last several days. Why should they believe her now?
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Our sources for this episode are cbsnews.com, fox6now.com, oxygen.com, basementfortproductions.com, wbay.com, apnews.com, legacy.com, mamamia.com, courttv.com, wisn.com, newyorkpost.com and jsonline.com. So, I think it's safe to say that family is something we talk about a lot on this show.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And number two, if your friend, someone you care about, like your own mother, someone you've been taking care of, is mixing eyedrops with water and chugging it, why would you just leave? Why wouldn't you call the police? Call an ambulance? No, instead she went to JCPenney's and opened up a credit card.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And let's say for a second she left because she didn't actually think Lynn was going to drink it, but then shows up and is truly surprised to find her friend dead later. Why wouldn't she tell the medics? Hey, when she called 911, hey, I think this is why. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. And it takes another two years for Jessie to finally go to trial. She doesn't get her day in court until October 2023.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
This is five years after Lynn's death. But here's the thing. Trial starts. She's claiming she's innocent. Lynn took her own life. She had nothing to do with it. Here's what's wild. At her trial, there's someone else who speaks in her defense. A man named Gary Verden says he had been to Lynn's house twice in his life. The second time was about a year before she passed away.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And he claims the day he was there, he saw a bottle of Visine sitting out with Lynn's vodka and her cigarettes. He also said that on another occasion he was with Jesse's mom, Jennifer, when Jesse called. Jennifer put her on speaker so he could hear the entire conversation and he claimed Jesse was with Lynn. And Lynn was talking about how she was considering suicide that day.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So the thing about Gary is not only is his testimony circumstantial, like he's like, oh, I just saw it and heard it.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
He's Jesse's mom's friend, not Lynn's friend. So he's definitely biased, but he's not the only one suggesting Jesse may be telling the truth. The defense calls another witness named Sarah Trump, who was treating Lynn for her back pain.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Back in 2017, Sarah said on the stand that nothing seemed to work for Lynn, that by the time 2018 rolled around, the pain was only getting worse, and suggested she might have been looking for other remedies. Even Lynn's former doctor, Lindsay Thomas, spoke out for the defense.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
She pointed to the fact that Lynn had a long list of medical conditions, but also psychiatric disorders like depression, anxiety, insomnia. She also said that she thought Lynn's mystery condition was... but likely led to her death, not the poisoning. Something that was also mentioned by a forensic pathologist hired to take a second look at the autopsy report from the medical examiner.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
They claimed that they believed a mix of drugs in Lynn's system along with the tetrahydrozoline and her condition was what caused her death. Just the eyedrops alone couldn't have done it.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Well, you have to keep in mind, all these people that are testifying are hired by the defense. So they came in to testify in support that's basically in support of the defense. I mean, whether they actually support it or not, they're supposedly telling the truth. Guys, I just, I can't with... I mean, okay, take out all this, like, who could it be? She was stealing money from her. Lots of money.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
But I also understand that not all of us have parents or children or a partner that we can rely on in times of need. In those situations, many of us turn to the chosen family we found throughout our lives to help us through the hard times. Whether that's colleagues or friends or our friends as kids, there should always be at least one person out there you can trust.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Opening up credit cards. She has a proven track record of doing this. And a ton of motive.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Well, the prosecution made a slam dunk statement that I think helped in this trial. They stated that if Lynn had died by suicide that day, then the timing of all of it happened perfectly for Jesse, because Jesse had just sucked the last drop out of Lynn's bank account.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And just when there was nothing else to steal from her, Lynn died, leaving her with all of her belongings to sell off and nothing to give the other person in the inheritance. Which sounds like a pretty serendipitous and completely unlikely scenario.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Vor allem, wenn man auch mit einer überwältigenden Anzahl von Evidenzen präsentiert wird, wie finanziellen Rekorden, Toxikologie-Reporten, Beobachtungs-Testimony, die nicht in der Verteidigung von Jesse war. Jemand hat sogar gesagt, dass Jesse Lynns Pferde über die Jahre verpustet hätte. Oh mein Gott, das ist diabolisch.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Ich muss sagen, dass das nicht so eine einfache Entscheidung für den Jurist war. Sie sind den ersten Tag gelaufen und nach sieben Stunden sind sie nicht zurückgekommen. Ihre Gespräche wurden am nächsten Tag geführt, wo sie endlich nach zehn Stunden ein Verdikt hatten.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
They concluded that Jessie was guilty of all charges, including first degree homicide.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jessie was returned to prison to await her sentencing. But meanwhile, some weird stuff happens. So during that time where she's awaiting sentencing, a friend of Jessie's came forward to say they had received an envelope with 37 pages worth of documents and letters. And this friend did the right thing by turning it over to police because those letters are from Jessie in prison
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
asking her friend for help help with faking evidence including making a fake voice recording pretending to be lin basically that she wanted her friend to record herself talking like it was lin validating a lot of jesse's initial claims there were even directions in jesse's handwriting instructing the friend on how to talk and sound like lin saying she has an older voice like a raspier sound this isn't this is insane
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Sie hat ihr sogar gesagt, dass sie nicht mehr weitergehen konnte. Sie wollte Vizine trinken, um ihr Leben zu beenden. Ich weiß nicht, ob der Freund das vor oder nach dem Trial erhielt hat. Sie kommt vor, während der Zeit, bevor oder nach. Aber es ist klar, dass Jesse hoffte, dass das ihre Rettungsgröße wäre. Anstattdessen hat es ihr Fehl geschlossen, weil der Freund es an die Polizei gehalten hat.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
jesse was back in court on april 5th 2024 for sentencing and the judge knew all about the little package that she had given her friend jesse denied she had made and sent those she still denied killing lynn in fact she told the judge the only thing she was guilty of was quote being a loyal friend I can tell you one thing, the judge did not agree.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jessie was sentenced to life in prison with an additional 10 years for her theft charges. The earliest she'll be available for parole is 40 years. She was also ordered to pay back $386,000 in restitution with an account that would collect and distribute the money if she ever did any interviews, documentaries or book deals. So if she tries to profit off it, all that money will go back.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Because in the end, Jessie took Lynn's money, her time and her life, but she also stripped her of one thing Lynn seemed to value above all else. That was a trusting friendship with someone she had invested years in. She had known her since she was a little girl, someone she considered her own adopted daughter. And that is the case of Lynn Hernan.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
zu denen du dich verletzen kannst, wenn du dich verletzt oder traurig oder krank fühlst. Und nur weil sie nicht das gleiche Blut haben, das durch ihre Gehirn fließt, bedeutet das nicht, dass sie nicht mehr deiner Liebe oder deiner Vertrauen wert sind. But it doesn't mean that their betrayal hurts any less either.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Like if someone were to say, how much do you think your head's worth? I would hope you would say more than $150,000.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Es ist traurig. Ehrlich gesagt, es ist traurig. Vor allem, weil... ...ungefährdeterweise Jesse... ...die Wille gefordert hat. Lynn hat sie bereits als Beneficiär verlassen. Sie wollte schon Geld von Lynn bekommen.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Sie wollte ihren Kuchen und ihn auch essen.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Alright you guys, that was our case for this week and we will see you next time with another episode. I love it. I hate it. Goodbye.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So while we expect that chosen family to always return the sentiment, to always have our best interest in heart, just like real family, things can slip through the cracks. And today's story is proof that letting your guard down to the wrong person, regardless of how close they are to you, could be a matter of life or death. Das Jahr ist 2018 und wir sind in Pewaukee, Wisconsin.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Hier hat 61-jährige Lynn Hernon viel von ihrer Kindheit verbracht. Nach dem Hochschulabschluss in Madison, das ist ungefähr eine Stunde von dort, wo sie wohnt, wurde Lynn Haarstylistin, die sich schlussendlich auf ihr eigenes Salon geöffnet hat. So it's safe to say that there were a lot of people in the Milwaukee area who knew Lynn or at least knew of her.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And from what everyone said about her, she was just the kindest, most warm hearted person they had come across in their lives. But she also loved her quaint and modest life. Her greatest joys were being at the beach and caring for her animals. She had several of her own and was involved with local shelters.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
In the evenings, she loved cooking herself a meal and unwinding to old black and white movies. But things at home were mostly quiet for Lynn over the years. She never had any kids. She never got married. And that didn't seem to bother her. She still dated quite a few people over the years, including Jim Kelleher, who she'd met at a music festival back in 1983 when she was just 27.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Remember, now she's 61. Now, Lynn and Jim were together for close to 10 years, but things tapered off before they ever walked down the aisle. But even after they broke up, Lynn and Jim remained really good friends, friends who saw each other often and were always there for one another in a time of need. Das ist unmöglich.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
However, that year Jim noticed that Lynn was starting to kind of drift away a bit. Lynn had been suffering from several health issues for at least the last two years. Things like high blood pressure, lung disease, really bad gastrointestinal issues.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Und obwohl sie viel in und aus dem Krankenhaus waren und viele andere Ärzte und Sprechleute gesehen haben, konnten sie nicht zu der Grundlage oder Problemen kommen, um ihre Krankheit zu beurteilen. Laut einigen Freunden wurde Lynn sogar ein bisschen selbstbewusst, wie ihre Gesundheit auf ihr Körper zwingte.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And the once social butterfly stopped wanting to do as much or have as many visitors as she did before. So her life has been pretty consistent, been pretty stable. And now she's starting to act a little different. And though Lynn's health was definitely on the decline, no one expected what was about to happen to her on the night of October 3rd, 2018.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So that evening a 911 call was made from Lynn Hernan's home in Wisconsin. The person on the line said they had found their friend Lynn unresponsive in her recliner in her living room. That she had pill bottles scattered around her and there was crushed medication covering her chest plus a white substance on a plate next to her.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jetzt, wenn die ersten Anwesenden an Lynn's Haus kommen, finden sie, dass es zu spät ist, um sie zu versichern. Leider ist die 61-jährige Lynn in ihrem Zuhause auf der Szene. Und das erste Instinkt der Anwesenden, nachdem sie gelernt hat, dass sie mit vielen Krankheiten kämpft, ist, dass Lynn durch einen Unfall oder vielleicht sogar einen Suizid gestorben ist.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
A suspicion that's supported by the person who made that 911 call, Lynn's caretaker and basically adopted daughter, Jessie Krzyzewski. Now, 32-year-old Jessie was the biological daughter of one of Lynn's oldest and closest friends, a woman named Jennifer. So Lynn had known Jessie since she was a little girl. And while it seems Lynn and Jennifer might have disagreed,
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
kind of drifted apart their friendship wasn't as close by the end of her life jesse and lynn her friend's daughter were thick as thieves jesse had been going to lynn's house regularly for the last two years ever since her health started to decline and when things really took a turn for the worse jesse was practically living there with lynn on a day-to-day basis kind of like a built-in caretaker
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Hey everybody, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jesse war auch derjenige, der Lins Geschäfte gekauft hat, ihre Arbeit gemacht hat, sie sogar Geld bezahlt hat bis zum Ende. Alles, was Lynn nicht tun konnte, sagte Jesse, dass sie ihr helfen konnte. Und wiederum, das ist Lynns alte Freundesvater. Also, als die Investigatorin zu Jesse spricht, sagt sie, dass sie wirklich nicht völlig überrascht ist, dass das so ist, wie es für Lynn endete.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Sie sagt, ich bin mit ihr. Für die letzten zwei Jahre war sie in so viel Schmerz am Ende, mit keinem Gehirn oder Behandlung in der Sicht. Also, laut Jesse, sprach Lynn oft mit ihr über das Tod durch Suizid als eine Art, um dieses Schmerz zu beenden, das seit zwei Jahren passiert ist. Und die Polizei nimmt Jesse's Wort für viele dieser Dinge, vor allem, weil es... Got it, okay.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
But just to be sure, they then start talking to the other people in Lynn's life and this is what they find out. So police learn pretty quickly that Lynn was still really good friends with Jim, her ex and his new partner. And so as they talk to him, this is what they learn. Jim tells police that he got a strange call from Jesse right after Lynn died.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Apparently, Jesse told him in practically the same sentence that number one, Lynn was dead and she was throwing a memorial dinner for her on October 13th and number two, she wanted him to come.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Nach, im Grunde nachdem Jessie Lynn gefunden hat. Sie ruft Jim, weil sie weiß, dass sie sehr nahe ist, wie eine gewählte Familie.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Sie ist tot und ich habe einen Memorial, du sollst kommen.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jetzt, dieser Telefonruf rüttelt Jim die falsche Weise für ein paar Gründe. One, Jesse doesn't sound very upset. Like when she calls and says Lynn's dead, for someone who has basically lived with her for the last little bit, she has no tears. Number two, he also knows of Jesse, but he's not actually ever met Jesse before. Not in all the years that he was friends with Lynn.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
I'm not even sure that Jim was aware that Jesse was Lynn's caretaker and was living with her.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Right, considering how close they are. And three, Jim says in the times he spoke to Lynn before her death, she might not have been feeling well, but she never gave any indication to him of taking her own life. And it's not just Jim who's saying this.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So police say, hey, Jesse, who was really close with her, said this, and everyone else, Lynn's friend, Anthony Poza, hears the news, and he's like, this is shocking. He says he saw Lynn about a month before she passed away, and Er sagte, dass sie sich verbessert fühlte, dass ihre Krankheiten verschwunden waren. Sie sah besser aus. Sie fühlte sich besser.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Sie begann, wieder aus dem Haus zu gehen und zu leben. Aber für jetzt sind Lynns Freunde gezwungen, diese Unklarheit zu akzeptieren. Auch fünf Monate später, als sie noch auf den Mediziner warten, um Lynns Tod zu beurteilen. Ja. Das ist vielleicht der Grund, weshalb Jesse im Februar 2019 zur Polizistation geht.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Sie zeigt sich auf die Polizistation und sagt, dass sie einen Update auf den Fall meines Freundes Lynn suchen will. Sie sagt, dass sie derjenige ist, der sie gefunden hat. Ich war sehr nahe zu ihr. Ich möchte einmal und für alle wissen, ob ihre Todesursache ein Verurteilung ist oder ob es eine medizinische ist. Jetzt sagen sie ihr, wir haben noch nicht das letzte Regeln bekommen.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Aber sie bekommen auch Jesse, um ihnen ein bisschen mehr zu erzählen, wie es mit Lynn war, bevor sie gestorben ist. Also, weil sie kommt, nehmen sie die Chance, mit ihr zu sprechen.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
So when they start talking to Jesse this second time around, Jesse mentions that Lynn had been pushing a lot of people away in the weeks before she died and that Jesse was really the only one that she still kept around. She said that when people called, Lynn was refusing to answer and was having Jesse take messages for them. She just basically tells police, listen, Lynn was in a really dark place.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
But when police spoke with Jim, remember he said that wasn't the case. He called the house a few weeks before Lynn died and Jesse did answer, but she was rude and curt to Jim. She told him never call the number again and not to worry about Lynn. Then she practically hung up on him. So now you kind of know why Jim is not so sure about Jesse.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Jim then said Lynn called him from the hospital a few days later and actually made plans to see him when she got discharged. So something's not adding up here. But that wasn't the only thing that the math wasn't mathing on. Apparently, Anthony Poza, Lynn's other friend, who was practically like a nephew to him, was a beneficiary in her will. In fact...
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
He and Jessie were the only two listed there. Again, it's kind of like this is her built-in daughter, her built-in nephew.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
She's leaving it to her friends' kids, who she was very close with. But Jessie was named the personal representative, which in the state of Wisconsin pretty much means that she's the executor. So in the months after Lynn died, Anthony checked in with Jessie a few times, seeing if she needed any help in handling Lynn's affairs.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And surprisingly, Jessie said yes, but she sent Anthony a bunch of credit card bills that were unpaid. Oh. Holy crap. And only some of it was used to buy things for Lynn. A new car, a little bit of jewelry. Anthony was actually shocked to find that most of that money had been wired to Jesse. So as this is starting to unravel, the chief medical examiner is finalizing his report on Lynn.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
We need some happiness around here.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
And you're never going to believe what they find in there. They do discover about eight different prescriptions in Lynn's blood at the time. Some had been prescribed by her doctors, but a few of them, her doctors, had supposedly taken her off a long time before she died. Though it's possible Lynn, who was desperate to feel better, wanted to finish out the medication, so it's not totally alarming.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
It's also not alarming to the medical examiner because they were all at therapeutic levels. There was nothing far over the prescribed dosages. None of those prescriptions were found in her toxicology report. Put me on CSI, man. Das bedeutet, dass sie wahrscheinlich geplant wurden und jemand versucht hat, es zu sehen, als wäre es ein Suizid oder eine Überdose.
Murder With My Husband
263. The Eyedrop Killer - The Death of Lynn Hernan
Vor allem, weil das eine, was in ihrem System war, etwas war, was niemand ingesten sollte. Es heißt... Blech. Schön. Tetrahydrozoline.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
That same day, on September 21st, they knocked on the Bowman's front door. Warrant in hand. Of course, they make a beeline for the garage. One of the first things they needed to do was inspect the BMW. And when they opened the passenger side door, they found there were still tiny pieces of glass on the interior there. And that the window had definitely been replaced recently.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
And not to mention, the garage reeks of paint. And the custom silver rims of his car, which had been listed as an identifying feature of this vehicle, had now been painted black. So, within hours. It's not just a search warrant police are after. They now have an arrest warrant too.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Thomas Dinn-Bowman ist am selben Tag in Handschuhen, während seine Frau Jennifer auch an die Station gerufen wird, um sich zu fragen. Dinn hält für Stunden, auf Wartezeit, bis die Polizei endlich kommt und ihn interrogiert. Aber in der Zwischenzeit schafft die Fotos ihn alleine dort.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Und alles, was ich sagen muss, und manchmal sehen wir das in der Interrogationsfotografie passieren, der Typ sieht nicht zu stressig aus für jemanden, der gerade als Verbrecher von Mordschulden eingestellt wurde.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Okay. He doesn't technically have to talk to them without a lawyer present?
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
He's not free to leave because they have the arrest warrant.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Yes, that's because there's no warrant for an arrest.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So this guy is drinking coffee. He's eating snacks. In fact, he looks frustrated with how long he has to sit there and wait. At one point, he even tells an officer he's annoyed with how long this is all taking, which you think this guy would be on his best behavior in a situation like this, especially if he's innocent and hoping to get out. He'd be like, hey, what's going on?
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Like, I didn't do this instead of being like, can we just get this over with?
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Ich werde sagen, Gerrit und ich waren in einem Flughafen eine Woche zuvor. Und ich konnte nicht mal Snacks essen, weil ich so bereit war, auf dem Flugzeug zu kommen, der verlassen wurde. Also ich weiß nicht, wie dieser Typ isst und chillt, nachdem er so lange da war.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So, what Din didn't realize was that officers at this time weren't questioning him because they were questioning his wife, Jennifer. She seemed equally as cagey and weird about things. When detectives asked her if she had heard of any murders near her house over the last few weeks, she said, I'm not sure. Remember, they live 10 blocks from the crime scene.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
In fact, she says, I'm not sure in response to most of the questions that she's asked that day.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
This goes on for nearly four hours. And oddly, Jennifer never asks for a lawyer or to speak with her husband. She does, however, act increasingly nervous as the interrogation continues. She stops making eye contact. She's shaking. She even agrees to hand over her purse when one of the detectives asks, which isn't a smart move for Jennifer.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Das ist genau warum ich nie für eine Anzeige gefragt habe. Also, du hattest die Anzeige. Ja, das ist so dumm. Du hattest die Anzeige, dass du die Wahrheit des Verbrechens repariert hast. Ich bin froh, aber dumm. Also, offensichtlich haben sie es nicht sofort nach dem Abendessen gemacht.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Aber das ist nur der Tipp des Eisbergs, weil zurück im Haus Detektivs sind, um viel mehr zu entdecken, als nur ein paar inkriminierende Anzeigen. Also, nach der Suche in der Garage am Tag, haben die Detektivs auch das Interieur des Hauses entdeckt. Und was sie finden, ist, naja, nicht ganz viel. Das bedeutet, das Paar hat kaum Furnitur. Einige Räume sind ziemlich leer.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Seine Klamotten sitzen auf der Flur ihres Wohnraums, alles was ein bisschen seltsam und verwirrend ist für die Polizei, besonders wenn Jennifer etwa 250.000 Dollar pro Jahr alleine verdient. But the devil is in the details, right? And there are some pretty bizarre details in the kitchen that set off alarm bells for detectives.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Like a few post-it notes that have been left around, written from Jennifer to Din. One specifically that reads, quote, To the best shooter in the wild, wild west. Bang, bang, XXOO.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Richtig. Bang Bang. Bang Bang. Das ist verrückt. Der beste Schütze. Das ist verrückt. Verstehen Sie den Polizisten und die Detektivs, die da laufen und den Post-It-Knopf auf dem Friseur sehen. Und sie sind da, auf Überraschung, dass dieser Kerl jemanden viermal random erschossen hat. Das ist tatsächlich so krass. Und es sagt dem besten Schütze im Wilden Westen Bang Bang.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So, not only does this suggest that Jennifer, if this note is about the murder, then Jennifer knows something about the shooting.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
But if this note is also about the shooting, she seems to be encouraging it, like making fun of it, joking about it. I'm not done.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
A reminder that Spotify, Patreon, Apple subscriptions, it's all the same thing, just different platforms to receive the same content. I feel like sometimes people are a little confused on that. Correct.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Du bist eine schlechte Person, weil du jemanden getötet hast, aber jetzt bist du eine wirklich schlechte Person, um darüber zu lachen.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Ich möchte sagen, dass die Note zerstörerisch wird, noch zerstörerischer, als diese Suche nach ihrem Haus weitergeht. Because throughout the house, police find an arsenal of weapons and ammunition. However, a 9mm Glock, like the one that matched the bullets at the crime scene, that gun is nowhere in sight.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So yes, Din is under arrest, but they still need more to build a solid case against this guy if charges are going to stick. And right now they don't have a ton. So they are hoping maybe they can get some sort of confession out of Thomas Den Bowman. Only he doesn't offer anything to detectives that day in the interrogation room.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
He just continues playing that tough guy role, the I'm annoyed by this act. No guilt, no fear, just frustration. And then he asks for his lawyer. So they figure, well, maybe we can catch him confessing some other way. His bail is set at $10 million, which they know he can't afford. So that means he's behind bars until his trial can begin.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
And that's when police start listening in on his phone calls to Jennifer from prison. Oh, okay. Okay. Lots of cutesy name calling. I miss you. I want to snuggle with you. So not much to take away there in terms of the investigation. But eventually, with the help of his lawyer, Din explains what happened that day with Yancy.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So he finally comes forward with his lawyer and he's like, okay, here's the story. And it's not what anyone expects. Din beklagte, dass er am Abend nach der I-5-Fahrt ging, als er Yancey in den Träumen verletzt hat. Er sagte, dass Yancey so verärgert wurde, dass er Din klingelte, etwas zu sagen, was man besser lernen muss, wie man das lustige Auto fährt. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Denn said he tried to dodge Yancy by then getting off the highway, but Yancy followed him and when the cars came to a stop at that red light at the intersection, Din claimed Yancy rolled down his window and grabbed a wine bottle, which he threw into Dins open convertible, hitting him in the back of the head.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Dann sagt Din, er hat Yancey gesehen, er hat etwas in der Passagierseite erreicht, und das ist, als er bemerkt hat, dass er sich verteidigen musste. Fehlend für sein Leben, sagte Din, er hat seine Waffe zuerst genommen, die fünf Schüsse in Yanceys Auto gefeuert, das ganze Ding war Selbstdefense.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Also, natürlich gibt es viele Fragen zu Dins Testimony. Hauptsächlich, weil A. Warum hat er dieses Statement nicht geöffnet, als er ursprünglich von der Polizei gefragt wurde? Und B. Yanceys Freunde und Familie sagten absolut keinen Sinn, dass Road Rage nicht in Yanceys Natur war. Es gibt keinen Sinn, dass er das gestartet hätte.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Aber dieser Ansatz, den Dins Defense zusammenfasst, ist eigentlich ein interessanter Spiel. Weil sie sich ziemlich sicher fühlen, dass jeder auf der Jury kann zu Road Rage beraten.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
That's kind of why they were saying they needed a confession.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
They know they're defending a lie?
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So they're not going to DM you and say, oh, we believe them.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
I mean, your client... It's illegal to testify and lie.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
I mean, yeah, it happens all the time.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
I don't know. I feel like obviously testifying in court, if someone on the stand lies, that's perjury. Can a lawyer lie? Yeah, they probably will just get interjected and proven wrong.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Okay, so I'm actually, as Garrett and I have been watching these road rage things on Twitch every Thursday, and now I'm doing a case that the defense is road rage. I kind of did some digging when I was looking into this case. And here's some interesting things I found. Triple A did a study back in the 1990s that found over the course of a seven year period. Again, this is the 1990s.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
There were 218 murders that happened as a result of road rage. 1990s, seven year period, 218 murders because of road rage. A lot. But there are other reports that state up to 1500 injuries and deaths are traced to road rage in any given year. 1500 people are hurt or killed in road rage incidents almost every year. That's a lot. So it does kind of make this concept a little scarier. Think about it.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Every time you go for a drive, unless you live in the middle of nowhere, you have dozens of little interactions, maybe of which you take personally. Und du weißt nie wirklich, wer diese Leute sind, die du neben dir fährst. Wer du ausflippst, wer du ausflippst. Außerdem gibt es diese seltsame Anonymität, die wir in unseren Autos fühlen.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Das gibt uns extra Mut in solchen Situationen, wo wir einfach fühlen, als ob wir etwas tun können und etwas sagen können, weil wir hinter unserer Tür sind. Ja, sicher.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Und wenn du all das zusammenfasst, haben Psychologen tatsächlich einen Namen dafür. Es heißt Deindividuation, was im Grunde genommen bedeutet, dass wir unsere individuelle Verantwortung in Gruppensystemen verlieren. Und es führt uns zu einigen ziemlich wilden Dingen, die wir in normalen Begegnungen nicht tun würden, wenn wir, sagen wir, auf Starbucks warten oder so etwas.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Oh and get this, people are way less likely to act out in road rage if there's other people in the car with them because that anonymity is kind of taken away. So when you're alone, you're more likely to be rageful while driving than if there's people in your car with you. So, Dens' Lawyers actually lean into this narrative.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Everyone can sympathize with a little momentary road rage, because the lawyers are going to say, well, everyone's done it. Or at least fearing for their lives, if they aren't the ones who initiated it, right? So they argue fiercely that that's what happened to Din that day, that he didn't initiate this. He accidentally cut someone's off and he had to defend himself.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
But as detectives look further into Dins life, they realize there is so much more to this story. So let's start with the witnesses or rather the lack thereof. Turns out there were a few people that saw the shooting that day. Only they didn't see anyone yelling. There were no reports of any bottles being thrown from one car to another.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
And when police asked Din, hey, what happened to that wine bottle that hit you in the head that he threw at you? He says, oh, I threw it away after. Now, if this really was the smoking gun to Din's story, don't you think he would have held on to it to show police? Only he says he got rid of it because he didn't think the police would believe him. And he wasn't wrong, but there was more.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
When Yanceys body was found in his car, both of his hands, again, were firmly gripped on the steering wheel. If you're believing Dins story...
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
That's not really the position he would be in. He said Yancy was reaching for something and that's why Din got scared and grabbed his gun and fired. And honestly, this detail about Yancy's hands being gripped on the steering wheel is so sad.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
It's actually really, really devastating. And you also have to consider how Din acted in the hours after that accident. He fled the scene. This is not something someone might consider after defending themselves. But even worse, he went out to dinner with his wife that night. And that same day he turned off his cell phone.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Dann hat er einen neuen gekauft, in dem er unter einem ganz anderen Namen registriert hat. Peter Nguyen. Und dann am nächsten Morgen hat er den selben falschen Namen benutzt, als er seine Fenster verwendet hat. Ich glaube, er hat sogar versucht, einen seiner Freunde zu überzeugen, mit ihm Autos zu handeln, für ein bisschen Zeit.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
I hope one day we release one and we're like, yeah, to be honest, guys, we're just not really excited about this one.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Und dann, drei Wochen später, hat Din zu einem Tire-Store gegangen, um neue Tire für sein ziemlich neues Auto zu kaufen. Was Sinn gemacht hat, weil die Medien nur Details über den Tire-Trick auf der Szene des Krimis veröffentlicht haben. And when they cracked into Dins computer, they found a ton of new evidence that sort of changed the entire narrative. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Not only do they realize that Din is obsessed with James Bond, turns out Din had been downloading books and articles for years on how to kill someone and get away with it. Oh mein Gott. Oh mein Gott. Er wollte jemanden töten. Premeditated if you're looking a random person.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
It's premeditated if you're looking at his computer history.
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250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
This was all before that.
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250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
I don't think I'd say that. I would.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So get this, they find even more when they went through Dins work computer. His hard drive had two books titled Murder Incorporated and the Death Dealers Manual, along with other documents titled Forensic Gunshot Residue Analysis, Chemical Analysis of Firearms, Ammunition and Gunshot Residue, Gunshot Wounds, Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics and Forensic Techniques.
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250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Detektive bemerkten, dass Din jemanden mördern soll. Dass es nicht egal war, wer es war. Dass er wahrscheinlich nicht mal am Morgen am 31. August aufhört und denkt, heute ist der Tag, an dem ich es mache. Aber that evening, an opportunity presented itself to Din. And Yancey was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh, and by the way, there was something else police found at Dins office.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Die Mörderwaffe, oder zumindest eine Teil davon. Innerhalb eines Storage-Kontainers war der Slide aus dem Glock, den er im Krimi-Szenario verwendet hatte. Und es passt perfekt mit den Kugeln, die er gekauft hat. Also haben wir jetzt ein ziemlich starkes Stück Beweise. Also als es Zeit kam, für Dens Trial zu beginnen, am November 19, 2014, war er vor ersten-Degrees-Mörder-Fälle. Ja. Okay.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
But Din stuck to the story his defense had helped him draft up, that he believed Yancy Knoll was going to kill him that day if he didn't pull the trigger first. He told the jury, quote, I felt like it was just this crazy bad dream and I was running from a monster. He said he didn't plan to kill Yancey, he just wanted to injure him so he could escape.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Our sources for this episode are capitolhillseattle.com, cbsnews.com, seattlepi.com, kiro7.com, casetext.com, courts.washington.gov, paramountexpress.com, spdblotter.com, fox13seattle.com, latimes.com, thepoorfool.com and mynorthwest.com.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
That he sort of blacked out and when he opened his eyes and looked down, he realized the gun was in his hand and that's when he stepped on the gas and fled. He later threw away the wine bottle and the water bottle, any shred of evidence that his story was true, because again, he didn't think the police would believe him anyway.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
But when the prosecution brought up the giant archive of evidence from Dins computers, proof that this had probably been premeditated, well, Din said he didn't remember ever downloading any of it, let alone reading it, and his defense argued there was no way to prove he had ever read or watched any of that.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Which is a wild explanation from a defense team, especially because Din hired the same lawyers that represented Ted Bundy.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Though I guess they didn't do much in the way of getting him acquitted either. While they thought Dins' self-defense in a moment of road rage would be relatable to the jury, it turns out the prosecution's motive resonated with the jury a lot more. They argued...
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
didn't didn't have motive at all only a desire to kill someone there was no road rage here to be found it didn't matter who it didn't matter when thomas din found his victim that day and he used the excuse of road rage to hide behind his morbid curiosity he'd fulfilled so basically the prosecutors get up and they're like hey if you've had road rage great din didn't even have road rage he just wanted he just wanted to murder someone so don't let them get in your head about this
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250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Wow. Wow. Now, Dins Mutter begged the judge to sentence her instead. She told the judge, quote, Our son's acts are our fault. My husband and I, we provided and allowed him to learn about guns for self-protection. I please ask you to allow myself to substitute any punishment by placing myself in Dins role.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
But then, when it came time for him to read a statement to the judge, all he talked about was how frustrated he was that the jury didn't believe his story. His lawyer had to do Dins begging and pleading for him, saying Din had shown guilt and remorse while serving time in prison. He'd even attempted suicide in there. But the judge didn't believe there was any real remorse in Thomas Din Bowman.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
They handed down a 29-year sentence instead. And as for Jennifer Bowman, the wife... The state attorney chose not to pursue charges for her knowledge of or connection to the crime. Since then, she's actually changed her name, gotten a new job and divorced Din.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Meanwhile, Thomas Din Bowman, a child prodigy who once had a world of possibilities ahead of him, now rots away in a jail cell in Clallam County, Washington.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Hier ist das Ding. How devastating for Yancy's family, for Yancy. I mean, from all, according to all sources, Yancy was just a guy who loved life. Like he had a fiance. He was about to get married. He was in his forties. He spent every weekend just loving adventure. Then he went to work and he worked hard and he dies because Din just wants to kill somebody.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Okay, so I think it's fair to say that we've all maybe done rash things in a moment of anger that we probably regretted later on, whether that's saying something we didn't mean to a loved one or even a complete stranger. Most of us look back with this feeling of guilt or shame, knowing that this behavior was out of character for us. And we take it as a learning opportunity, right?
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Both hands on the steering wheel. It's heartbreaking.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
I think I'm just starting to get real pissed off at these true crime stories.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
In the way that the defense attorney was trying to make us believe in road rage, hey, we've all been there. You've been mad at your husband before. You've been mad at your wife before.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Psychologically, it's easier to understand.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Psychologically, there is no piece of any of us who can relate or comprehend that. We can't comprehend it.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
You need to call a hotline and then go the correct steps after that.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
All right, you guys. And that is the case of Yancy Nol. Please take today to think about Yancy and his family members who suffered at the hand of this senseless act. And we will see you next time with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
But not everyone is like that. Als Thomas Den Bowman sich in einem heiligen Moment mit einem Auferstandenen befand, wurde er tatsächlich tot. Und ich muss hier bemerken, dass wir oftmals auf unseren Thursday-Livestreams auf Twitch... Ich wollte gerade das sagen. Ja, wir schauen Road Rage Videos.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Und es ist wirklich, wir sprechen über es immer da drüben, aber wie seltsam es ist, dass in einem Sekunden du so wütend an einem Auferstandenen bist, dass sie manchmal physisch werden.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Well, Mr. Thomas Din Bowman is one of those people, okay? But it turns out, this encounter wasn't as random as Din made it seem. He had a dark secret. And those feelings of regret and remorse only came when he realized he was going to have to pay for that decision with his life. So it's August of 2012 in Seattle, Washington.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
In the city of more than 600,000 people, a 42-year-old man named Yancey Knoll found his place in the world. A quick add in here, if you are like me, the only Yancey you know is actually a girl from the movie Sleepover. So leave a comment for me on Instagram if you're with me on that. But this Yancey is a 42-year-old man.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Und nachdem er in Anchorage, Alaska geboren wurde, hat Yancey sich in die Seattle-Area gewechselt, um 2002, und er ist gespannt, in einer großen Stadt zu sein. Für einen furchtbar intelligenten, scharfen, wittigen Mann wie Yancey, könnte Alaska einfach zu langsam für seinen Geschmack gehen. Speaking of taste, he also had a very refined palate when it came to wine.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Well, Garrett and I are back. It is 2025. We are ready to go into our fifth year. This would be year five.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So whether or not Yancey moved to Seattle for the job, I'm not sure. But I do know that he became a well-respected wine buyer for local supermarkets.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Aber Feinwein war nur eines der vielen Dinge, die Yancey über das Leben beobachtete. Er liebte auch eine gute Abenteuer. Er liebte einen scenic Hike mit seinem Hund Lola oder seinem Freund Jodie. Vielleicht auch die offizielle Skidive-Tour oder am wenigsten einen Morgenkajak mit seinem Freund Rick. Jeder, der Yancey kannte, sagte, dass er kind und warm war mit einem großen Herz.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
He could always find something to talk about, to fill the gap of silence and make you feel more comfortable. The kind of person who was great at his job, who minded his own business, who worked for the weekend and really lived life to the fullest. Someone who had a bright future ahead of him and was excitedly planning a wedding with the love of his life.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So when Yancey left work to head home on the evening of August 31st, 2012, he assumed he was going to spend the weekend like any other, living out another adventure and unwinding with his dog and future bride. But life had other plans for Yancey. It was around 7.30 p.m. that night when five gunshots went off in Seattle's Roosevelt neighborhood.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
They rang out from a traffic light at an intersection right at the corner of 15th Avenue and 75th Street. So, Witnesses then caught a glimpse of a silver BMW Z4 burn rubber and screech away from the scene.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So our first eyewitnesses, Kevin Watts and Angelo Rama, heard the gunshots go off behind them in their rearview mirror. Then the next thing they know, that silver BMW with its top down and customized rims was racing through the red light past them into oncoming traffic. Und wenn du das siehst, weißt du, dass alles, was gerade passiert ist, ernsthaft war.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Ich meine, das ist eine Szene aus einem Film. Also diese zwei Ereignisse, Kevin und Angelo, sind die Bürger, die wir alle um uns herum wollen, weil sobald sie diese Waffen hören und dann dieses BMW über sie fliegt, They decide to hit the gas from 0 to 60 and try to keep up with this vehicle. They are going to follow him and stop him.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So he weaves in and out of traffic and is totally out of sight though within seconds. So Kevin and Angela, when they lose him, decide to go back to the scene and make sure everyone else is okay there. They're not even really sure what happened. And that's when they see a red Subaru still sitting at the green light against the curb.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
And as they get out and approach the car, there's a lot of glass on the ground and a lot of blood. The driver inside still had both of his hands firmly gripped on the steering wheel. And he had four bullets in his head. And as you know, the victim was Yancey Knoll. Und wir haben noch ein Eingesicht, eine Frau namens Patricia Schulmeister, die auch nach dem Hören des Schussfeuers draußen kam.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Sie lebte tatsächlich direkt an der Kante dieses Intersektions. In Wahrheit, der fünfte Schuss, den Yancey verpasst hat, hat sich tatsächlich durch ihre Fenster geführt, durch eine Schale von Glas und in ihr Zuhause und dann durch eine Lampenfärbung und dann in eine Bilder, die sie hatte, hängend von ihren Katzen.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
The bullet hit her picture of her cat. And by the time Patricia even found that bullet, police had already been called to the scene of the crime. Patricia came out, handed it to investigators. And right away, they could tell the make of the gun. A 9mm Glock pistol. But the first question police are asking is...
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
did anyone see what sparked this whole thing i mean we have someone who was just shot in the head four times in broad daylight was this a targeted hit on yancy noel or was this completely random so when they look into yancy's background they don't find a single shred of criminal history which kind of sort of ruled out anything gang or drug related to police but the one thing they find incredibly strange is
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
All of the glass in the street, it's not from Yancy's car because his windows are rolled down. It's from the shooter's car, which means the shooter from the driver's side shot through his passenger side window and into Yancy's car.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
But if you remember, the eyewitnesses said the BMW had his top down. So he has his top down, but his window's up. That's how he's rolling. But this is actually helpful to the police because not only do they have a description of the vehicle, they know they are looking for one with a broken passenger side window.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
And later they find there were one or two witnesses who caught a pretty good glimpse of the driver himself. Sie sagten, dass der Mann in seinen 20er- oder 30er-Jahren gut gekleidet war, mit leckerem Haar und entweder weiß oder agentisch war. Nun, die Offiziere haben einen Künstler, der einen Sketch kompiliert hat, den sie dem Publikum ein paar Tage später veröffentlicht haben.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Sie offerten auch eine grausame Foto des Fahrers, den sie auf eine nahegeborene Sicherheitskamera gelegt haben. Und für die nächsten zwei oder drei Wochen halten sie, dass lokale News-Kanäle die Bildung des mysteriösen Hip-Manns runten. Währenddessen sprechen die Polizei mit Yanceys Freunden und Familie. Sie versuchen, das, was an dieser Intersektion stattgefunden hätte, nach unten zu kommen.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Sie fragen sich, ob Yancey irgendwelche Feinde hat. Aber jeder, mit dem sie gesprochen haben, war so, dass Yancey der freundlichste Kerl war. Es gab keinen Sinn, dass das gegen ihn persönlich geplant wurde. It just doesn't make sense. So police consider another angle. Is this an instance of road rage gone horribly wrong?
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
They actually point to a dent in the front of Yancy's car that suggests to them, maybe he was driving aggressively that day, got into some sort of accident, but even so, Yancy's friends say it didn't seem possible. According to them, Yancy apparently drove like a grandmother.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
He was overly cautious, he never showed signs of impulsive anger or recklessness, and that dent on his car was there long before that night. Sie sagen alle, es ist völlig unmöglich, dass Yancey jemals etwas physisch oder verbal mit einem Fremden anfangen würde. Er ist schmerzhaft und bemerkenswert. Er ist schmerzhaft und bemerkenswert. Er ist schmerzhaft und bemerkenswert.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Well, one week turns to two, and the police are receiving hundreds of tips from people throughout Seattle. Because apparently, silver BMW Z4s with custom rims are very popular at the time, but none of those leads evolve into anything of note.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So they can't come up with anything. There's just this hit and run that led to a guy being dead. Until September 14th. That day, a woman calls the police with an anonymous tip after seeing the sketch. She says that she thinks the driver is a man that lives less than 10 blocks from where the shooting took place. Sie sagt, ich kenne seinen Namen. Es ist Thomas Dinn Bowman.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Und wenn die Polizei seinen Lizenz abnimmt, passt seine Foto zu diesem Schild ziemlich gut. Wie ihr wisst, bin ich nicht normalerweise in den Hintergrund eines Verbrechers, solange es nicht zu der Geschichte ist, die ich in diesem Fall, denke ich, wichtig ist, zu erwähnen. Also Dinn, als er herübergeht, also sein Name ist Thomas, aber er herübergeht Dinn.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
wasn't exactly someone who lived under the radar. Back in 1996, he had a featured story written about him in the Seattle Times because he was, quote, a child prodigy. Oh. Hmm.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
I asked Gary if we could set the cameras up and film the episode from our bed, but he said that'd be weird.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Hast du den Parent Trap gesehen?
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
So after this, he then goes on to get a degree in electrical engineering from University of Washington. And by 20 years old, Din had started his own tech business. An engineering company that specialized in building robotics called Vague Industries. In 2007, he met a successful dentist named Jennifer Palm at a seminar. And a year later, she and the 25-year-old Din tied the knot.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
Now from the outside looking in, they seemed to be on a great path. They appeared to be madly in love, and both of them had a promising future. Maybe even an early retirement, if all went as planned. That is, if Din stayed out of trouble. See, Din actually had a run-in with the law a year before he met Jennifer, so back in 2006. That year he was charged with burglary and first degree theft.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
And while I'm unclear of what the circumstances were, I know he was later acquitted of the charges. So it was only a matter of time, though, before Jennifer found herself pulled into her new husband's chaotic lifestyle. So now fast forward to 2012. After the anonymous tip comes in, police set up a stakeout of Dens home. They don't immediately go to him, just to make sure they had the right guy.
Murder With My Husband
250. The Stoplight Killer - The Murder of Yancy Noll
And after almost a week of watching the house, they find zero signs of that BMW coming or going. That is until day seven, when the garage door opens one afternoon. Just quick enough for police to catch a glimpse of what's inside. The silver BMW. Now that they knew Din had owned that car, they were able to secure a search warrant.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So at this point police are like, we're not sure about this Rick guy. We're going to get a warrant to search his car. And this is where things in the case really take a turn. Inside of Rick Ennis' car, the last person that they know of to see Lori alive, they find a knife, a pair of fuzzy handcuffs, tiki torches, flare bottles, air fresheners, a scrub brush and a giant box of cleaning supplies.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Anyone knows animals, dogs do not have their periods once a month. Yeah, they go into heat likely twice a year. So police are like, bro, this is definitely a lie. That does not add up. But the more Rick talks, the more he just keeps digging himself into a hole. And the more police begin to talk to other people who know Rick, the worse he looks.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So remember that empty gas can police found close to the burnt car?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Well, they speak to a friend and co-worker of Rick's, who also worked at the bowling alley, named Jeremy. And Jeremy tells police this. On June 9th, the day before Lori went missing, Rick called Jeremy at his house to ask him for a favor. He says, hey, my car ran out of gas. Could you possibly run some over to me? I am parked at a local church in Auburn.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So Jeremy, being a good friend, is like, yeah, sure. He grabs an empty gas can. He sees lying around behind the bowling alley, gets it filled, brings it to Rick. Rick says, hey, can I keep the empty gas can? And Jeremy tells him, no. He's like, I borrowed it from the bowling alley. It doesn't belong to me. But that's not even the strangest part.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Jeremy watches Rick start his car with zero troubles after this. And Jeremy knows cars. So he knows that when they completely run out of gas and then get a boost like this, It kind of usually takes a few revs of the engine to get it back going again. Jeremy doesn't really think too much of it. He brings the can back to where it goes about his day.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
But a day or two later, he realizes, oh, that gas can that he had dropped off to Jeremy and brought back is now missing. Which makes him really suspicious of Rick when he hears about missing Lori's car exploding on June 14th. Besonders weil er etwas über Rick wusste, was nicht viele andere wussten. Und was war es? Ich weiß es nicht. Rick war in Liebe mit Lori. Okay. Oh, großartig.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
All right, you guys, we are going to get into the sources for this week. Lawandcrime.com, cbsnews.com, charlieproject.org, basementfortproductions.com, sandhielsexpress.com, wtvm.com, whnt.com, wrbl.com, montcova.com, thesun.com, findagrave.com, wsfa.com and wjtv.com.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
This is a statement which was also validated by Lindsay Braun, remember Lori's best friend? She said Lori had told her about the letter but wasn't at all interested in being romantic with Rick. That she really just wanted to keep it platonic. And seemingly Rick had accepted that since the two were still hanging out on the night she vanished. Or maybe Rick wasn't accepting it.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Here's what's interesting though. If you recall, Lori told Lindsay she was going to pick up some mixers and then head over to Lindsay's house right before she went missing. Mm-hmm. And Lori is found on security camera footage at Walmart shopping shortly after making that call to her friend. And even more interesting, she appears to be alone.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So she was with Rick when she made that call, but then she's alone in the Walmart after telling her friend she'll be right over. Almost like, yeah, I said goodbye to one friend, went to Walmart, but then she disappears. So police have to consider the possibility that maybe Rick wasn't with her when she vanished.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And while Rick does appear to have a motive and definitely some shady circumstantial evidence, the scratches, the things in his car, the gas can story, police think they just don't have enough to build a case against him for trial. So what happens? Rick is not arrested. Instead, Rick begins trying to sell off a bunch of his things, his motorcycle.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And then less than a week after Lori's car is found, he moves. He moves out of Auburn, Alabama.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
But the following year, so the case has grown cold, they think they know who did it, they have no evidence. Rick's former roommate from Auburn decides to randomly go into the police station one day. I don't know what took him so long, but he has some pretty interesting evidence.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
He says, hey, like this whole thing happened a year ago, all this drama, Rick gets up and leaves, sells everything, but... Okay. Why would he leave them behind? That's insane. Well, the former roommate says Rick told him they were a gift from Lori.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
But this is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Rick Ennis, because the more police keep digging, the more they realize Lori clearly had no idea who she was friends with. So, I'm going to jump back into Rick's past now. It's 1993 in Montgomery, Alabama. On March 5th, a police dispatcher gets a call from a random driver saying a car appears to have driven off the highway.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
It struck a fence, so they should send someone out to make sure everyone's okay. And then a state trooper named John Clark is sent to this scene. And as he gets there, his headlights shine on what appears to be a boy, like not much more than 12 years old. So the state trooper Clark gets out and asks the 12-year-old if he's okay.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
If it's uploaded on there, so no, you can't find just anyone's.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And the boy says he's fine, but then tells the state trooper, I've actually stolen my parents' car. So Clark searches the kid's backpack, which the kid is cooperative about. And that's when Clark finds a kitchen knife and some loose ammunition in the kid's backpack. Now Clark's like, all right, kid, you're going to have to come down to the station with me so we can call your parents.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Like you drove the car off the highway. That's when the 12 year old looks Clark dead in the eyes and says, you can't call my parents. I killed them both. And something about the way this kid, this young kid says it, like something about the way he says it, tells Clark that he's not joking. He's not messing around. So they immediately send police over to the boy's home address.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And sure enough, they find the dead bodies of his mother, Dolly Flowers, who had been shot and beaten to death with a baseball bat.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So most of us have friends from all different chapters in our life, right? We have our childhood friends, our college friends. Then there's the newer adulthood friends, work colleagues, other parents, neighbors. And the whole point of establishing a new friendship is getting to know someone on a more personal level. What interests do they have? What are their personalities like?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
As well as the body of the boy's stepfather, Eddie Flowers, who had also been shot in the face.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Well, apparently the bodies at the house had been dead for at least two days by that point, which, according to witnesses, didn't stop that little boy from going to school in the meantime. So he shot and killed his parents, kept going to school, and then two days later stole the car and ended up driving it off the highway. Wer ist dieser kleine Junge? Rick. 12-jähriger Rick Ennis.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Rick hat die Polizei gesagt, dass er es gemacht hat, weil seine Eltern wollten, sich zu bewegen und er wollte keine Schulen wechseln. But the police find something else chilling inside of this house. It's a hit list, and on it were the names of Rick's three stepsisters as well, who luckily Rick did not get to in time to kill.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Now, under Alabama law, Rick was only sentenced to nine years in a juvenile detention center for this crime.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
This actually happens a little bit.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So when Rick turns 21, 2002, he is released. It was around this time that he moved to Auburn with this huge secret that he had served a prison sentence for murdering his parents.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And had a hit list for more.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
He moves to Auburn. He starts a new life. He gets a job at a bowling alley and happens to meet Lori and Lissinsky.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So here's what's wild though. As police are investigating Lori's case, they know this about Rick and they still don't think they have enough evidence to prosecute him. And a big part of that is the fact that they don't even know if they have a murder case. There is no body. Lori's body is still missing.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And I hate this so much, but this department is really operating on a no body, no crime mentality here. This is despite the fact that the tips against Rick Ennis keep coming into the Auburn Police Department, including one from a new coworker Rick made living in South Carolina. The witness actually called the police and says they asked Rick, oh, what made you move out of Auburn?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And Rick flat out told them, I got into trouble there, I needed to get the heck out of Dodge. But there's more. Rick also told this coworker that he'd been talking to a woman in Auburn, but she only wanted to be friends, so he strangled her.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
He tells his coworker this. He described this woman as a piece of, quote, trailer park trash. Okay. Which, might I add, her parents had bought her that home to live in while she goes to college. And also just rude. Now, once this witness does this research, they see there's a missing girl in Auburn and an open investigation into her death.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Das ist der Grund, warum sie die Auburn-Polizei mit dieser Information genannt haben. Diese Frau lebte in einem Trailerpark. Und die Mitarbeiter waren so, dieser Kerl ist seltsam. Er hat einfach nur verurteilt, dass er jemanden ermordet hat. Ich weiß nicht, ob er wahr ist. Er schaut sich das an und ist so, oh mein Gott, ich muss das der Polizei erzählen. Und trotzdem geht es nirgendwo.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Zehn Jahre nach Lauries Verlust sind die Fälle in dem gleichen Spot, wie es vorher war. It's not until 2016, when the Alabama State Bureau of Investigations creates their cold case unit, that Lori's disappearance gets the attention it deserves. Special Agent Mark Whitaker is the one to take the lead on Lori's case in 2016.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
What happened to them in the past? But there's no way to know it all. And even with those friends that you've had for decades, how can you be so sure that you ever know their full truth?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And immediately, he's baffled by how much evidence there is against Rick Ennis. He's like, we don't even have, like we have the guy. And he's still out here living life like nothing happened. Er und ein Partner spenden ihre Tage durch alte File, um einen Fall gegen Rick zu bauen. Einer Nacht, um 1 Uhr morgens, ruft Marks Partner ihn an.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Er sagt, hey, ich habe gerade eine alte Box von Beweisen und Filen gefunden. Es ist literally Duster. Und drinnen war ein Envelope, das niemals geöffnet oder gelesen wurde von den Behörden. It was in regards to the evidence that had been collected from Lori's trailer.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And this unopened report said that Rick's DNA was found, his semen was found on Lori's bed sheets and in the blood on the front door of her mobile home. Got it.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Das bedeutet, dass wenn Laurie nicht in Rick interessiert war, romantisch, wie sie ihrem Freund gesagt hat, hat Rick wahrscheinlich Laurie verabschiedet und hat klar in eine gewaltige Verzweiflung mit ihr innerhalb ihres Hauses getroffen, um das Blut auf der Tür zu haben. Das war ein Bericht von 2007, neun Jahre früher.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Und weil jemand es nicht geöffnet hat, wusste niemand, dass Rick Ennis DNA in ihrem Haus hatte. By the way, Mark also finds the three rugs that Rick's roommate handed over to police when he moved. And once he sends those through DNA analysis, they find Rick's blood on one of those as well. But it doesn't stop there. Lori's car was too destroyed in the blaze to gather any evidence off of it.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
But remember that there was some stuff collected near the explosion. One of them was a rolled cigarette butt. This was something they never sent out for DNA testing back at the time. But now Mark and his team made sure to get it analyzed. Rick's DNA is all over that cigarette butt that is found near her burnt car, which means he's now also tied to blowing up Lori's car.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
He's tied via blood and semen to her house and the last person to see her live and now tied to a completely different location where her car is blown up. So on August 6th, 2018, Rick is celebrating his 37th birthday in his new home in rural Virginia. He's there getting ready to cut a cake with his new fiance, the local school librarian.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Wenn their house is surrounded by SWAT teams. That day Rick Ennis is finally arrested and charged with two counts of capital murder, burglary and kidnapping. Twelve years after Laurie disappeared.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Exactly. Because while a friendship is built on honesty, trust and loyalty, it doesn't mean that someone has to reveal all of their secrets to you. So today I want you to ask yourself, How well do you really know the friends in your life, even the closest ones? Do you know what their parents do for a living? Do you know what happened in their home when they were young?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Listen, I'm not one to give up on marriage. I'm really, really not. To me, murder... Das ist ein ganz neuer Niveau und du kannst mich töten. Du bist bereits ein Gefahr für mich.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Du bist bereits ein Gefahr für mich. Und wenn ich herausgefunden habe, dass du jemanden in deiner Familie verurteilt hättest, weiß ich nicht, wie ich mit dir leben könnte und nicht einen Augenblick öffnen würde.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
I guess maybe it's just something we don't know until we're in that situation.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
I don't even know if I can speak on it.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Yeah, but what if you didn't know? That's why I started out this case being like, do you actually even know people?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Now, obviously it's a COVID case. Trial was delayed for years until 2022.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
But on April 1st of that year, Rick Ennis was paraded into the courtroom and shockingly, they let him testify in his own defense. And the entire time, he swears he didn't kill Lori. In fact, he says, no, no, no, we just had consensual sex in her house the night she went missing. Despite the fact that all of Lori's friends were like, no, she literally told us she wasn't interested in him.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
He said, oh, the scratches on my arm came from my dog. And he maintained his story he told 16 years ago. We sold marijuana. She went out to meet with someone and never came home. What's even more outlandish, Rick claimed someone deliberately planted his DNA at the scene of the blown up car to pin the crime on him. Which doesn't really make sense because they never even tested that DNA.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So if back then officers or investigators planted his DNA, they then just took it and never even tested it. Which defeats the purpose of planting DNA.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Und, du weißt, weil er bestätigt, dass er sich mit, wie du sagst, du hast einen Co-Arbeiter erzählt, du hast eine Frau getötet, du hast deine Eltern getötet. Leider hat er keine Antwort gehabt und er sagt nicht, was er mit Loris Körper gemacht hat. Aber die Jury war nicht der gleiche Fehler, den die Polizei gemacht hat. Für sie war kein Körper, kein Verbrechen nicht eine Option.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
After deliberating for two days, the jury found Rick Ennis guilty of all charges. So finally, after 16 years without justice, the Slesinski family had a piece of it. After the verdict was announced, one of Rick's stepsisters, who was on his hit list, came forward and released her own public statement.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Because Rick's previous convictions could not be included in the court hearing of Lori's case, she wanted the world to know, guys, this guy that just got convicted also murdered. My father and stepmother. Initially, the prosecution was hoping to pursue the death penalty, but Lori's mother Arlene actually said, can you not?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
The reason being that it would cost them years of appeals, more legal hurdles, like he's just going to appeal, we're going to have to come to more things and we just don't want to. So Arlene agreed, we'll just go on
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Yeah, give him life in prison. And that's exactly what Rick got when he was sentenced. Rick, you're a loser. But the only thing anyone really wants to hear from Rick is where is Lori's body? To this day, what happened in the final hours of Lori's life from the time she called her friend and was heading to Girls Night and then went missing is still a mystery.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And how shocked would you be if you found out that this long-term friend had an entire chapter of their life that they never shared with you? One that ultimately could save your life if you only knew the truth.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
As is her final resting place. All we can hope for is that one day Rick Ennis has a change of heart, an ounce of morality, and finally shares what he did to the woman that he calls his friend. And that is the story of Lori Ann Slicinski.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Es ist wie, du bekommst nie vollen Verabschiedung, aber du kannst Level von Verabschiedung bekommen. And they really only have like the bottom tier level.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Yes, it's like someone being convicted, someone saying I did it, someone telling the details, letting you know what happened, where is the body. Like it just, you can keep adding. And honestly, he's given the bare minimum.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
All right, you guys, that was our case this week. And we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
I don't trust Daisy. She woke me up three times last night.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So, today we are going to dial the clock back to 2006. We are traveling to Auburn, Alabama to meet the 24-year-old Lori Ann Slesinski. Now, Lori, who was born on September 21, 1981, isn't an Alabama native. She, her older brother Paul, and her parents, Arlene and Casey, are all originally from New York.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So, by 1994, when Lori was 13, the family moved down south to a rural Alabama farm to start a slower life than the one they lived in New York, which was amazing for Lori because she loved animals. So Lori was more than thrilled to have an entire horde of new pets she could take care of. Und das Glück, das Lori in diesem Weg nach Alabama fühlte, schien auch in anderen Bereichen ihres Lebens durch.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Freunde sagten, sie war immer unglaublich freundlich, ausgehend, warm und nützlich. Sie exzellierte in der Schule, auch wenn sie 13 Jahre alt war. So viel so, dass sie die Valediktorin ihrer Highschool-Klasse war, als sie graduierte. Which was why, when Lori got accepted to Auburn University around 2001, her parents offered to get her something special.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
They bought her her own little mobile home to live in right outside of campus. Now, I'm not sure how far away Lori's parents were living at the time, but I know it was far enough for them to worry about Lori quite a bit. Lori's mom Arlene would call and check on her every day just to see how college life was going. But Lori was thriving there just as much as she was back home.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
She was getting a degree in psychology and criminology. And after graduating in 2005, she actually had plans to go on and pursue a master's degree. Now, around that time, Lori also adopted a little dog that she named Peanut. It was the love of her life, after probably missing all of her pets back home. And she got a job at the East Alabama Mental Health Center.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And he's the husband.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Yeah, for Lori, this was just a stepping stone until she completed her Masters. She thought the job was okay. It was a lot of work for the low salary she was being paid, but it still left time for her other hobbies, bike riding, recreational sports, video games, and of course, plenty of time to just be a young 20-something enjoying her day with her friends.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Which was exactly what Lori was up to on the Saturday afternoon of June 10th, 2006. Now that day, Lori was hanging out with her friend, 25-year-old Rick Ennis. But that evening, she had plans to meet up with a few friends for a girls' night. Just some drinks and a movie. It was nothing wild. So around 6.30 p.m.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
that night, Lori calls her friend, Lindsay Braun, who was going to be hosting this girls' night. And she tells Lindsay, hey, I'm just going to swing by the store in a few minutes, pick up some drink mixes, and then I'll head over to your house. Lindsay's like, great, yeah, we'll see you at girls' night soon. 7 p.m. rollt um. Und Lori ist ein bisschen zu spät, aber nicht viel.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Doch das ist, wenn Lindsay noch einen Anruf von ihr bekommt. Es ringt einmal, also kommt Lindsay nicht mal zum Telefon, um es zu beantworten. Aber sie sieht, dass es Lori war, die geholfen hat, also ruft sie zurück. Nur gibt es keine Antwort jetzt. In Wahrheit geht es direkt zu voicemail. Und dann geht eine Stunde vorbei. Lori wächst nie wieder auf. Eine Stunde später. Eine Stunde später.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Lori kommt überhaupt nicht an die Mädchennacht, obwohl sie klingelt und sagt, dass sie Trinken jetzt und auf dem Weg holt. Also ist das Ganze seltsam und definitiv aus Charakter für Lori, weshalb sie am nächsten Tag, am 11. Juni, Lindsay, ihr Freund, beginnt, sie zu klingeln und ihr ein paar Geräusche auf ihrer Home-Answer-Maschine zu lassen.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Now, the day after that, Monday, June 12th, Lori doesn't make it to work for her shift at the mental health center. She's a no call, no show. Same thing the following afternoon, Tuesday, June 13th. Now, from what I can tell, Lindsay also used to work at this mental health center with Lori.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So when she hears from one of her former coworkers that, hey, Lori literally just like didn't show up to work and didn't even call. Und sie ist so, oh mein Gott, sie kam nie zu meinem Haus, sie antwortet nicht auf mein Telefon. Sie weiß, dass etwas nicht richtig ist. Also fährt Lindsay über zu Loris Trailer nach Hause, dasselbe Tag.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
I hate that. Hahaha.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Und wenn sie da ist, findet sie, dass ihr Freund Loris Auto weg ist. Also erwartet sie nicht, dass sie nach Hause kommt, aber ihre Tür zu ihrem Trailer ist geschlossen. So Lindsay lets herself in. She walks around hesitantly, not knowing what she's going to find. Feels a little weird. And while she doesn't see Lori in the trailer home, she does find Lori's dog Peanut there.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
He's locked away in his crate, but he's wagging his tail. He seems to have been fed. His crate isn't soiled, which to her says someone has been letting him out and taking care of him. Maybe that's a good sign. Like maybe Lori actually has been around. But there's a few other things that definitely make Lindsay question the situation.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
For example, Lori usually has three little rugs on the floor of her kitchen because Peanut would slip on the tile so she put it down to make it easier. But now they're gone. As was Lori's trash bin outside her home and a bin Lindsay knew Lori kept all of her gardening tools in. And then even stranger, Lindsay hat Lori viele Botschaften am Wochenende verlassen.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Zuerst skippt sie einfach die Mädchennacht, sagt nie, warum sie nicht das Telefon antwortet. Aber wenn sie auf die Antwortmaschine geht, notiert Lindsay, dass die Maschine ungeplugt ist, also haben sich keine ihrer Botschaften gerettet.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
So as Lindsay is doing her own little investigation in Lori's trailer, Lori's mother Arlene is also getting a call from Lori's boss at work saying, hey, we're a bit worried. We haven't seen or heard from your daughter in two days. So Arlene hops in her car and races to Auburn to Lori's house.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
And when she gets there and finds Lindsay there, Arlene also finds something else that's a bit unsettling. The phone in her bedroom, in Lori's bedroom, is missing its cord. So this is definitely scary enough for Arlene to call the police that day after learning everything Lindsay knows as well.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Like why is it a big deal? What's the cord?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Or like the charging cord. Like what? And that like that is a big deal, that the cord's unplugged and the answering machine's unplugged.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
It was so fun. I loved just going in my dad's office, picking that phone up, calling my bestie. Can you play? Arlene ruft die Polizei, ihre Mutter, und als sie an die Szene kommen, bemerken die Polizei ein paar andere Dinge, die Lindsay und Arlene tatsächlich verpasst haben. Zum einen bemerken sie, dass Loris vorderste Tür ein bisschen gesplittert und zerbrochen aussieht.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Und sie finden auch eine kleine Menge Blut auf Loris vorderste Tür. Also baggen die Polizei ein paar andere Beweise, während sie da sind, insbesondere Loris Schuhe. And in the meantime, they learned from Lindsay that Lori was actually with someone before she failed to come over that night a few nights ago on Girls Night. Remember, it was her old friend, Rick Ennis.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Now, Lindsay knew Rick was the last person to see Lori that night. But to her, that wasn't at all alarming when Lori went missing because Lori and Rick had a good friendship. They met back when she was still a student at Auburn University, but not through school. Lori actually went to the bowling alley where Rick worked and the two got to know each other that way and became friends.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Now, the friendship was always just platonic between the two of them, though. Auch im Dezember 2005, als Lori ihre Mutter fragte, hey, kann ich meinen Freund Rick zum Weihnachtsessen anrufen? Er hat keine Familie. Und Arlene sagte, ja, natürlich. Also hat auch ihre Mutter Rick getroffen.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Arlene sagte, Rick war polizistisch und freundlich, dass sie auch keinen Grund hatte, ihn oder seine Intentionen zu beantworten. But when Rick is called in by police for questioning, he tells police about another side of his missing friend, Lori. One that seemingly her mother and her best friend, Lindsay, were not aware of.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Rick tells police, yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand what you're saying, Lori's missing. And we were actually growing marijuana together. And that on the night of June 10th, Lori left him to go to Lindsay's, but first she had to make a drop. And it was to a few shady characters that definitely might have had something to do with her disappearance.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Police like Garrett are a little hesitant to believe the story, but only because they find zero evidence that Lori's been growing or dealing weed out of her trailer. But before they can even fully look into Rick's claim, there is a major break in the case the following afternoon on Wednesday, June 14th.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Lori, who's missing, drives a 2005 Mazda Tribute. So they rush over to the scene, terrified of what they're going to find inside of the vehicle. And they are somewhat relieved to discover that Lori is not inside of it, but it is 100% her car. So now the question is, Who would do this? Did Lori blow up her own vehicle and flee the scene?
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Likely not, but police find a few clues near the car as well. First, they find a hand-rolled cigarette, which they collect as evidence, and second, an empty gas tank in the woods close by. Now remember, just a few hours before this explosion, police were questioning her good friend Rick Ennis. Now all of a sudden they are standing in front of Lori's torched car
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Zu ihnen ist es so, wir holen sie rein, wir legen die Druck auf und jetzt kommt ihr Auto kaputt. Sie fühlen sich nicht, als wäre es eine Verurteilung, weshalb sie an dem Tag tatsächlich entschieden haben, Rick wieder in eine andere Interrogation zu bringen. Vor allem, weil Loris Eltern den Polizisten erzählen, als sie zu ihnen berichten, was Rick gesagt hat.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
There's no way their daughter was growing and selling weed. She's never even been into drugs. She was valedictorian. She's going on to get her masters. To them, Rick's gotta be lying. And police are starting to suspect that too, because this time they noticed something they didn't before. Rick has some scratches on his arms and hands. And when they ask him about them, like, hey, what happened?
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
He doesn't really give them an answer. He also changes some of his stories from what he had told the police the day before.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
Murder With My Husband
267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
But if you're trying to make it seem like she was around dangerous people, you would have to tell a lie that shady.
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267. The Deadly Friend - The Murder of Lori Ann Slesinski
I don't know, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I think he, if it's fake, in his mind, he just needed to get her around shady people.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Es war durch das lokale Theatergruppe. Ich habe dir gesagt, dass sie als Teenager teilgenommen hat.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Sie waren beide in einer Produktion des Rocky Horror Picture Show zusammen. Und sie haben es wirklich zu Beginn getroffen. Sie haben sich kurz verabschiedet, ziemlich unabhängig. Aber dann brach Colin es ab, nach nur ein paar kurzen Monaten. Nun, von dem, was ich sehe, war das vielleicht eines der nahesten Dinge, die Kassandra zu einer ernsthaften Beziehung hatte.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Also über die Jahre, sogar in ihren 30ern, hat sie über Colin gedacht. Und dann, im Jahr 2020, als die Pandemie geschehen ist, hat ein Freund gesagt, dass sie wahrscheinlich traurig geworden ist und sich zu Colin gebracht hat, um sich wieder zu verbinden. But Colin says differently. So police show up at his doorstep.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
They're like, hey, this girl Cassandra is missing and we have got a hold of her phone records and see that you guys have been texting and calling for a bit. And it's it's a lot. So how do you know her? You were the last person she talked to, at least over the phone. But the weird thing is, Colin says he hasn't seen or spoken to Cassandra in years.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Well, actually he says there was this one time that he ran into her at the mall, but other than that, they'd had zero contact. The day she disappeared, he says he was at home doing some spring cleaning. He put some gas in his truck, took the trash to a dumpster, got his bike fixed, went to Costco. It was a pretty uneventful day.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Was er nicht weiß, ist, dass die Polizei Kassandras Telefonnummer hat, die sie in seinem Haus verwendet hat. Also haben sie nicht nur gesprochen, ihr Telefon klingelt in seinem Haus. Das ist das gleiche Haus, das ihn in diesem Moment beantwortet hat. Am Morgen, als sie verschwunden ist, und er sagt, ich habe keinen Kontakt mit ihr gehabt.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Ich muss lügen. Also, schau, Colin hat keine kriminelle Geschichte. Er hat tatsächlich einen schmutzigen Rekord. Also nehmen sie das in Acht. Aber sie wissen, dass dieser Junge lügen über das Sehen und Reden mit Cassandra. Also sieht das nicht gut aus. Was wahrscheinlich der Grund ist, warum sie sogar eine Suche für Colin Dudleys Cellphone bekommen konnten, die sie von ihm an dem Tag gesehen haben.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Und was sie finden, ist mehr Beweise, dass Colin Cassandra viel besser wusste, als das, was er den Polizisten erzählt hat. Also eines der ersten Dinge, die sie bemerken, ist, dass Colin Cassandra's Nummer nicht als ihre Name gesammelt hat. Cassandra ist tatsächlich als Velma auf seinem Handy gelistet. Also erstens die rote Flagge, richtig? Zweitens.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Ein Analyst, nach dem Vergleich von Collins' Records zu Kassandras, bemerkt, dass er einige Textmessagen von ihr verlost hat. Eines von dem Morgen, als Kassandra verschwand. Also hat Kassandra ihn getextet und gesagt, ich bin etwas früh. Ist das okay? Und dann antwortet Colin an Kassandra und sagt, ja, komm runter. Okay. So he's deleted those.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
But her phone then spends the next few hours at Collins house, after which Cassandra's cell phone ends up in the Puget Sound.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Well, I also think it's important to note that There's a couple of reasons that Colin could have deleted these messages. One, because he did something to her and doesn't want proof that she was with him. And two, he actually lives with his girlfriend and has been living with her for years.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
So suddenly Velma makes a little sense because of course he's not going to save her contact as Cassandra. As does the lying about when he last saw Cassandra. But police don't think that's quite enough to pin a murder on him. Not yet. But they have an idea of what to do next. Remember how I told you the police found Cassandra's car near the Tacoma Dome? Yeah.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Well there happens to be a train that runs right along the street there next to where her vehicle was parked. And those trains and the train stations in 2020? Closed. So police get all of the footage from August 25th to see if they can spot when her car arrived and who might have parked it there. And they get lucky because on tape from 1150 a.m.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
We definitely need the five extra pair of devil horns that he ordered for our Halloween costume.
Murder With My Husband
241. The Hat Man Killer
that morning, they spot a man getting out of the driver's side of Cassandra's car. Clearly not her and walking away. It's pretty hard to make out the guy's identity, though, because he's wearing all black. He has black shoes, black T-shirt, black pants, a black rim hat.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
And blue surgical gloves, which, yeah, people also wore those in the pandemic. So it might not be that weird in public, but also for a killer to have a mask and surgical gloves. But the footage continues. The guy crosses the street over to the train stop and actually takes a seat on a bench there for about four minutes, almost like he's
Murder With My Husband
241. The Hat Man Killer
catching his breath he looks a little exhausted he's composing himself so he waits there on that bench for four minutes and then he gets up and he keeps walking and surveillance footage captures him next in another parking garage just down the street he walks in that garage he gets into a truck and he exits the parking garage sometime before 12 30 pm this is clearly the person of interest 100
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241. The Hat Man Killer
But the next thing is identifying who this person of interest is, which ends up being pretty easy for police, because not only does that person have a familiar build, they're wearing that black hat. It's a fedora, to be specific. And Colin Dudley, well, he had a nickname. He liked to be called the Hat Man.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Warum tragen wir nichts? Hauptsächlich, weil einer seiner Lieblingsfilme ein Clockwork Orange war. Es ist ein dystopischer Stanley Kubrick Film über eine Gang, die auf diesem violenten Verbrechen geht.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Aber lass mich nur sagen, dass, wenn diese Hat nicht ein totes Geschenk gewesen wäre, die Plätze auf Collins Truck hätten den Trick gemacht, weil das ist sein eigener Truck, den er fährt, und die Plätze zählen.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Ja. Officers get a clear view from the footage and once they run those plates, the truck is registered to Colin. Now here's where it gets even worse. Colin seemed to have Cassandra's phone on and with him this entire time.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Because from that parking garage, police realized it moves to the Puget Sound, to Owen Beach, where it last pinged those towers at 12.45 p.m. Why?
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Well, I think it's important to know that we spilled on it in the middle of the episode.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Motiv, richtig? Ich meine, du hast einfach meine nächste Frage beantwortet. Natürlich wissen die Polizei, Colin Dudley war derjenige, der das Telefon entfernt hat. Sie hatten ihren Mann. Aber warum? Was hat er ihr getan? Und warum? Also, vor einem Monat, bevor Kassandra verschloss, hat sie ihre Freundin Alexandra entfernt und ihr ein Geheimnis erzählt.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Sie hat gesagt, dass sie nur einen Pregnanzentest genommen hatte und es war positiv. So the day after Cassandra disappeared on August 26th, Alexandra was supposed to meet Cassandra, remember, for their little hangout. She never showed. Well, they were actually going to an ultrasound appointment together. That's where Alexandra was meeting Cassandra.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
This is something Cassandra definitely wouldn't have wanted to miss, which is why it was very alarming. Cassandra had also told her mother about the pregnancy that July, but when her mom asked her who the father was, Cassandra was like, it was a one-night stand, I met him on a dating app.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
And we kept recording and the episode worked fine. So we thought we would come down today to record another episode and it would be fine. But it wasn't. It wasn't.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Cassandra was like, I don't care, though, Mom, like I'm excited to be a mother. I'm more than happy to do it on my own. I don't care that it was a one night stand. She was already thinking of baby names. She was assembling her online baby registry. There was just one problem, though. She wasn't being honest about who the father was, because
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Es war eigentlich Colin Dudley, ihr High School Freund, der eine lebende Freundin hat. Nun, Alexandra wusste, dass Cassandra ihre Freundin alles erzählt hat. Sie ist wie es war. Es ist Colins Baby, insbesondere der Fakt, dass sie und Colin hatten angefangen, sich wieder zu sehen, im Februar.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Colin würde von seiner Freundin Rebecca aussteigen, um mit Kassandra einen Film oder ein Abendessen zu gehen, aber es sah nicht so aus, als hätte er keine Pläne, Rebecca für sie zu verlassen. In seinem Geist und scheinbar in Kassandras, war das nur gesellschaftlich. Das war, bis sie herausgefunden hat, dass sie mit seinem Kind verheiratet war. Am 16. Juli 2020. Nur gesellschaftlich Sex?
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241. The Hat Man Killer
When Cassandra's OBGYN was questioned, she said Cassandra had listed Colin as the father during her initial appointment. The notes also included the pregnancy was not planned, the patient was feeling overwhelmed, the father of the baby was supportive of pregnancy but not planning to be involved with the raising of the child. He and the mom were on good terms.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
So yeah, this paperwork proves Colin knew about the baby.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
So Cassandra actually told Colin about the pregnancy August 12th. This would be 13 days before she disappeared. Sie muss schon ziemlich nervös gewesen sein, weil Cassandra vor dem Thema hypothetische Gespräche mit Colin hatte. Und er hat ihr verurteilt, dass er Kinder nie wollte. Sie war also ein bisschen so, als ob sie Fülle daraus geben würde. Er hat gesagt, dass er Kinder nie wollte.
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241. The Hat Man Killer
Er hat sogar so weit gegangen, als zu sagen, dass wenn eine Freundin von mir krank wurde und ein Abortionen nicht bekommen würde, würde ich zu vollem Behandlung schulden, nur um die Mutter zu verurteilen, dass sie ein Kind hatte.
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So you can see why Cassandra was probably dreading breaking the news to him. She wanted to do the right thing. She felt like he had a right to know.
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And maybe he would change his mind if the situation became a reality. So she went to Colin and told him he didn't need to be involved. Like I'm pregnant. I don't care if you're involved. I am going to have the baby though. She even said you can like sign over your parental rights. Oh mein Gott. Bis jetzt haben die Polizisten keine Waffe, sie haben kein Körper.
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All sie haben ist viel digitale Beweise. Aber in diesem heutigen Zeitpunkt ist das genug, um eine Suche-Warnung zu bekommen. Das ist genau das, was am 1. September 2020 passiert, etwa eine Woche nach der Verlustung von Cassandra. They show up to Colin and Rebecca's house with a SWAT team, the FBI, and a canine unit.
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They search his truck and his home for any sign of her, and the dogs immediately lead them to the basement, particularly to a brown sofa. They don't find any concrete signs of her, though. What they do learn is, remember how Colin said on the day of the 25th he didn't do much, really, than go to Costco? Well, the police found out that at Costco he bought 50-gallon trash bags.
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Not a great thing to buy in the hours before your pregnant mistress girlfriend goes missing. But that means this wasn't a spur of the moment decision. Something that's confirmed further when police learned after that Costco run, he went to the parking garage and dropped his truck off there. This is before he met up with her.
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Und Dutch Bros hat auf unserem Video kommentiert. Sie haben es gemacht. Auf Instagram. Geh und erzähl ihnen, dass wir ein Kollab brauchen.
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bevor er mit ihr am Morgen zusammenkommt, geht er nach Costco und kauft 50-Gallon-Taschen und verlässt seinen Truck in der Parkung, in der er später gehen wird.
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Yes. He then biked out of the garage and made the 20-minute trip back home. So he thought this plan, he thought it out well in advance. Oh, yeah. Now, during the search of his property, police also asked Collins' girlfriend Rebecca to come down to the station. Because here's the thing.
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She was supposedly home the afternoon he met up with Cassandra, which makes you wonder if A, she knows about the affair, B, she knows if Cassandra was pregnant, C, she knows about the murder. Well, when detectives question her and ask if she thinks Colin is capable of hurting Cassandra, she doesn't answer right away. She actually sits there quietly for 13 seconds.
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So they say, do you think he could have killed her? 13 seconds go by.
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They don't have any evidence to assume Rebecca's involved, but this answer definitely raised eyebrows.
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And really, they need a body before they want to arrest Colin because they know he's guilty, but is it murder? Is it kidnapping? It's hard to say until they find her. Which is why their next move is pretty genius. Nun, die Technologie hat sich durch diese gesamte Investition ziemlich fruchtbar gezeigt. Es war definitiv Collins Achilles-Hill. Also denken sie, lass uns diesen Weg weitergehen.
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Nun, neuere Autos, wie der, den Colin gekauft hat, haben alle diese grundsätzlich schwarze Box innerhalb von ihnen. Diese Dashboard-Computer, die Apple CarPlay haben, Anmeldungskapazitäten, GPS, du hast sie gesehen. Und obwohl du es möglich sein könntest, dein Smartphone auszuschalten, gibt es keinen einfachen Weg, diese schlechten Jungs auszuschalten, wenn dein Motor läuft.
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So in the same way you can track a cell phone, you can actually track those little computers that's in a car. And so they get it and they send it off to analysis and here's what they find. The day after Cassandras disappearance, August 26th, Collins car drove out to a wooded area, eight miles from his house around six in the morning and it stopped there.
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Nun, es dauert ein paar Wochen, um diese Informationen von Spezialisten zurückzukriegen, aber am 22. September 2020, Stunden nachdem sie diese Details bekommen, rufen die Polizei nach diesem Ort hin, wo Collins' Fahrrad am Morgen, nachdem sie verschwunden ist, ging. Und nach nur Minuten, in einer Ravine, befindet sich ein Körper, verpackt mit Trashpacken.
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A search and rescue team actually has to use what they call a high angle ropes operation to get down because it's a very steep ravine and recover the body. And when they open up the bag, they found a distinctive mark that proves it was Cassandra. It was that quote, that tattoo she had. We don't stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing.
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So now there's more than enough to arrest 37-year-old Colin Dudley, which they do later that evening. He's charged with first degree murder of 33-year-old Cassandra Cantrell. Now, when they do the autopsy, they find that she had been stabbed several times. She had sustained multiple injuries to the head and her cause of death was ultimately ruled as blunt force trauma.
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They believe he killed her in his basement, kept her body there overnight and then dumped her the next morning. But that brings us back to Rebecca, Collins' girlfriend. I mean, I don't know how you can sleep in a house with a dead body and not know it's there, but it is in the basement. Police have no indication of if she knew or not.
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So police just assume because of lack of evidence, Rebecca has no idea that any of this happened. So after months of back and forth, postponements and COVID delays, there was finally some movement on the case on November 14th, 2022. This is two years after Colin was arrested. Prosecutors felt they had an extremely strong case in terms of the digital evidence.
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But they decide to work out a plea deal with Colin. He ultimately accepted. In exchange for his plea, he was given only 26 years behind bars for his murder. Now, Cassandras family did not agree with any of this. They felt the digital evidence was extremely strong and I have to agree with them.
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I think if this case went to trial, Colin Dudley would have gotten what he deserved, which is a heck of a lot more than 26 years behind bars. He'll be in his 60s when he's released. That could be 2044 on good behavior. That's a lot of life left to live, a life that Cassandra will never get to have and her unborn child won't get to have either. We can't forget.
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26 Jahre für die Tötung einer soon-to-be-Mutter. Also blöde ich Cassandras Familie nicht, dass sie sich über diesen Deal überrascht. Die Moral der Geschichte ist, dass wir glauben müssen, dass digitale Beweise nur so sind, wenn nicht besser als die Beweise, die wir 30, 20, sogar 10 Jahre zuvor hatten. Manchmal ist es sogar besser als eine Mordwaffe.
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Und ich denke, wir müssen uns an digitaler Beweise gewöhnen, die neue Smoking Guns in einem Geräteraum, weil es sich gerade um umständliche Beweise handelt. Wie ich es sehe, macht die Technologie nur diese Fälle stärker. Und ich bleibe optimistisch, dass mehr Fälle geschlossen werden werden, weil davon. But you know who else was an optimist? Cassandra.
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Our sources for this episode are Oxygen.com, People.com, CBS News.com, Fox13Seattle.com, TheNewsTribune.com, Cairo7.com, King5.com and Pierce County Sheriff's Department Facebook page. All right.
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In a rocky and unknown time in her life, she chose to have hope, to see a bright and happy future for herself. And she seized it. She didn't care what anyone else was going to think of her. And her courage is something to be remembered and admired. And that is our case for this week. I think we can all learn a thing or two from Cassandra.
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And I hope we can spend the day thinking about her and her family.
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All right, you guys, that is our case for this week, and we will see you next time with another one. I love it.
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So sometimes I stop and think about how far technology has come in just my lifetime to think that many of us were part of a generation where social media, online shopping, even cell phones weren't part of our daily lives. And now it is is pretty mind blowing. And it makes me wonder. What will we see in the rest of our lifetime that we haven't even conceived of yet?
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What will our kids and grandkids be using on a day-to-day basis? Will that be an iPhone? Will it be Instagram? I think about this a lot, but not just in the context of my own life. I think about it in the context of true crime as well.
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There's been so many cases we've covered where I stop and think, if there was just a security camera on that street corner at the time, maybe we would know who Jack the Ripper was. Or if O.J. Simpson had, I don't know, GPS on his cell phone, would he be in jail? Point being, a lot of today's cases would run cold if it weren't for the technology we have now.
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Which is why today's story proves, if you're going to commit a murder in this day and age, technology is probably going to be your worst enemy.
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You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.
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So, right now we are going to travel northwest to the state of Washington. This is a place we actually don't cover too often on this show. We are going to a port city just south of Seattle known as Tacoma. Now in 2020, this is where 33-year-old Cassandra Contrell calls home. Sie hat hier ihr ganzes Leben lang gelebt. Sieh, Cassandra hat nie weit von der Neste venturiert.
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Sie ist unglaublich nah mit ihrer Familie. Sie lebt noch mit ihrer Mutter, Marie Smith, die sie hilft, sich zu kümmern. Und sie hat einen Zwischenbruder namens Rob, mit dem sie eine wirklich besondere Beziehung teilt. Growing up, Cassandra and her twin brother, Rob, were thick as thieves.
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They were best friends who would stay up late into the night despite their mother's insistence that they had school the next morning. They wanted to stay up and watch scary movies on the couch. And Rob was always amazed at how his sister Cassandra seemed to never be shaken by these scary movies.
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Vielleicht war es ihre leichte, freie Geist, dass sie immer das Gute und die Humor und Dinge gesehen hat. In der Tat hat Kassandra diese Leidenschaft für Filme in ihr eigenes kleines Hobby. Sie und Rob begannen, Filmmemorabilien zu sammeln mit Träumen, eines Tages einen Sammelshop zu eröffnen, was ehrlich gesagt so eine lustige Träume zu haben ist. Ja, ich kann keine schrecklichen Filme, übrigens.
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So as Cassandra reached her teens, she also found she had an interest in being in the movies, well at least in acting. So she joined a local theater company and really started to grow into her own skin. She found a group of people who were quirky, outgoing and shared a lot of the same interests as she did. So, Cassandra joins theater and she gains a lot of confidence there as a teenager.
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Her friends said she became the kind of person who didn't care what others thought about her. If she was too loud, if she was too opinionated. Cassandra was unapologetically herself because she accepted herself. And she wasn't afraid to wear that on her sleeve. Quite literally, actually. Cassandra got a tattoo that summed up her life motto pretty efficiently.
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It was a quote from playwright George Bernard Shaw that read, We don't stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing. And the only place Cassandras friends said she was a bit more reserved was when it came to dating. She'd had a boyfriend or two here or there.
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She'd used dating apps in the past, but nothing was ever that serious, at least not that Cassandras friends or family were aware of. So the morning of August 25th, 2020. Remember, she's in her 30s by now. It probably felt like any other day in Cassandra and Marie's home. Cassandra's mom got up that morning and the two chatted before Marie headed out for work.
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Kassandra hat ihr erzählt, dass sie einen Shopping-Tag für die Nachmittagszeit geplant hatte und dass sie morgen mit ihrem Freund Alexandra treffen wollte. Jetzt, um 8.25 Uhr an dem Tag, hat Kassandra in ihrem weißen Mazda gehoppt und aus dem Haus gegangen. And when Marie, her mother, came home later that day, Cassandra hadn't returned yet.
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But Marie wondered who she went off to meet, because Marie noticed that Cassandra had used her master bathroom to get ready. Her makeup was still all over the counter, as if Cassandra had been getting ready to meet with someone important, because this wasn't really normal behavior. Yeah. Now Marie tries to call Cassandra a few times that day, but doesn't hear back.
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It seems she wasn't totally panicked though. I mean, after all, Cassandra is a 33-year-old woman with a life of her own. But the following day, August 26th, Her friend Alexandra starts to get concerned as well. Alexandra had been texting Cassandra that day to say, hey, I'm running late. We still good to meet up. I will probably be late.
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But when she didn't hear back from her friend, she tried calling her repeatedly, only to realize that her voicemail box was full.
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Ich bin einfach so populär. Also im Laufe des Nachmittags hat Alexandra immer mehr Angst. Aber am nächsten Morgen hat es sich für das Schlimmste geändert, als Alexandra auf eine Frenze von panikabhängigen Texten von Cassandras Mutter Marie aufwuchs. Sie fragte sich, ob Cassandra mit Alexandra war. Hat sie die Nacht an ihrem Ort verbracht?
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Erinnere dich, das sind jetzt zwei Nachts in der Reihe, dass sie nicht nach Hause gekommen ist. Seine Mutter erklärt, dass sie mit ihr nicht in Kontakt kommen konnte. Und das ist, als Alexandra den Telefon aufgenommen hat und Marie gesagt hat, hey, nicht nur ist sie nicht hier, sie ist auch auf mich dunkel gegangen. Sie hat nie mit mir verabschiedet, wie wir geplant hatten.
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Jetzt, wissend, dass das für sie komplett außer Charakter war, haben die beiden entschieden, die Polizei zu rufen. Now, of course, like any of us would in those first few hours, they're hoping for the best, right? Like Cassandra just lost her phone. Maybe her car broke down somewhere. She didn't have money. Someone was helping her out.
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Really any scenario that could explain that she's safe out there somewhere. And this is just all a big misunderstanding. But the police are like, okay, it's been a few days now. We have a young woman who was seen on a neighbor's security camera driving away from her home on the morning of August 25th around 8.30 a.m. And then she's never seen returning on that footage.
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Ich denke besonders für eine 33-jährige Frau, die nicht bekannt ist, um die Nachtshafen zu gehen. Sie lebt zuhause, sie ist ziemlich abhängig. Ich denke, das ist beruhigend. Die Polizei beginnt also mit Kassandras Familie und Freunden zu sprechen. Als sie ihren Zwischenbruder, Rob, gesprochen haben, haben sie gelernt, dass er besonders gestresst ist.
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Nicht nur, weil seine Schwester verloren ist, sondern auch, weil die zwei von ihnen gerade vor ihr Verlust gesprochen haben. I'm not sure what the fight was about, but I know it was still ongoing the morning that she left and never came back. Because Cassandra texted him before she left the house asking if she could come by later to clear the air.
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Only seemingly still tender from the fight, Rob never replied to his sister. Now I need to state, Rob is not a person of interest in this case. Aber es macht ein Problem, weil wenn Rob zu Kassandra geantwortet hätte, ist es möglich, dass er wusste, was sonst an ihrer Agenda war. Er könnte die letzte Person gewesen sein, um mit ihr zu sprechen.
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Es könnte eine Art Timeline zu ihrem Fall gefordert haben. Aber da das nicht passiert ist, war niemand sicher, wo Kassandra am Morgen losging. Allein hat sie ihrer Mutter gesagt, dass sie planen würde, shoppen zu gehen. Also ist hier nicht viel zu tun. But on the following day, August 28th, police get their first major clue.
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Cassandras car is found parked downtown on East 25th Street near an event venue called the Tacoma Dome. Now, nothing seems off about her vehicle itself. There's no damage, there's no blood. The weird part is, though, this isn't a place that Cassandra would ever really go, let alone park her car and leave, according to her mother. Plus, there's no sign of Cassandra inside.
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I mean, her car is basically just abandoned. There's no purse, her cell phone, or any clues to indicate where she might have gone. Police figure, this is probably just another dead end. So what they focus on next is actually the lack of clues. Because this case happened in 2020. We are in the height of the pandemic. Everyone is glued to their cell phones.
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So police actually order an emergency trace on her cell to see if they can find her last known location. And it's definitely not where you'd expect.
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Her phone last pinged two towers around the Puget Sound, which is an area. And when they triangulate it, they find it was most likely on the shores of Point Defiance Park.
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So it's not looking good that this is where her phone last pinged.
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So when police get there, because they're like, well, we're going to go search. Their first instinct is someone probably threw her cell phone in the sound, which is what they call this body of water. So they have to decide, is it worth it to get a diving team down here and try to find a cell phone or are we looking for a body? First, they don't even know for sure if it's in the water.
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This is just where it pinged the towers last. Second, even if it is in these waters, it's going to be like finding a needle in a haystack if they're looking for a cell phone. But they decide, yeah, I mean, we have nothing to go on. We have no clues. And this woman's life is on the line and it is definitely worth it.
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So thankfully, it's low tide when they go out there, which makes things a little easier on them. But still, they know what a long shot this is. And one of the detectives has this pretty smart idea. He says, let's throw stones out into the water from the dock to see how far someone could have thrown this cell phone if they threw it.
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Basically, it's just a very expensive soundboard that we record through. So our headphones go in, our voices go in. It captures our entire audio.
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Er hat gesagt, lass uns ein paar Steine holen und dann suchen wir das Gebiet. Das ist so altartiges Detektivwerk, aber auch smart. Ich glaube, das könnte funktionieren, weil du die Anzahl nimmst, richtig?
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so good idea what did you say i think i sold out and then all i heard you say was a freaking loser because whoever did this obviously killed her or oh you're not talking about the police throwing the rock you're talking about the phone correct correct i'm following i was like wait why is the couple loser now it makes you feel better i zone out all the time while you're talking
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It's because I was reading in my next, I was prepping for the next part. I'm sorry. That's okay.
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Yes. Okay. Well, it turns out that the cop is not a loser and he's actually super smart because they start searching the area. They get divers into the water. They start dragging nets along the bottom of the sound. Und so und behold, nach nur etwa einer Stunde der Suche nach Wasser, schnappen sie ein Handy mit einem Glitter-Gas und es ist Cassandras.
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Nun, die Polizei sendet Cassandras Handy zu einem Spezialisten für Prozessierung. Aber in der Zwischenzeit hat Marie, Cassandras Mutter, etwas von ihrer eigenen Verhandlung gemacht. Sie ging durch Cassandras Handys und fand eine mysteriöse Nummer, die einfach immer wieder aufgefallen ist. Kassandra hatte seit Monaten mit diesem Anruf gesprochen.
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Das war der letzte Anruf, mit dem Kassandra zu sprechen war, bevor sie am Morgen des 25. August verschwand. Das ist ein großer Anruf. Als die Polizei den Anruf suchte, fanden sie, dass es zu einem 37-jährigen Mann genannt wurde, Colin Dudley. Es scheint, Colin und Cassandra haben sich seit Jahren kennengelernt. Sie haben sich 2006 getroffen, als sie nur 18 Jahre alt war.
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Which may be a tad bit strange, but by most people's accounts, David is said to be a pretty stand-up guy. As some of the other girls at Mansfield High described him, David was sort of the cool guy around campus. By no means as popular as Adrian, but still attracted the attention of some girls. He was said to be a gentleman, very goal-driven and family-oriented, but his biggest identifier...
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was that he was the battalion commander of the school's junior rotc program now if you don't know rotc stands for the reserve officers training corps it's basically like a college prep program for anyone who wants to go into the us military yeah on top of that people said david was an excellent student always very polite which is interesting because and i might be under the wrong impression i'm just telling you guys what i see on social media
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I don't think my school had an ROTC program.
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Wir hatten andere Programme für andere Career Paths.
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Ja. Und auch Nursing. Wenn du eine Nurse werden willst, kannst du dir eine Zertifizierung geben, bevor du in die Schule gingst. Das hat dir geholfen. Ich weiß nicht. Ich war nicht smart genug, in der Nursing-Szene zu sein.
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Nur, weil ich studierte. Nicht, weil ich wirklich smart war. Ich war nur ein Hardworker.
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Also, die Leute sagten, David sei der Ja-Mam, Ja-Sir-Type. Okay. Aber als es zu seiner Verbindung zu Adrian kam, waren die Dinge noch ein bisschen unklar. Ja, sie riefen beide zusammen durchs Land, aber David hatte tatsächlich eine sehr ernsthafte Freundin. Seine Name war Diane Zamora.
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Die beiden hatten sich vor vier Jahren durch einen lokalen Zivilfluggruppen getroffen, ein Luftwaffenprogramm, das die 101er der Militärleitung lehrt. While Diane went to another high school 15 miles away in Crowley, Texas, she and David grew very close over the years. And the summer before their senior years of high school, they both had started dating.
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Gym, Pickleball. Gerrit hat seinen Futter geworfen.
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Now, Diane was almost the complete opposite of Adrian. She was reserved, quiet. She kept to herself. She was very religious, the kind of girl who was not going to lose her virginity until marriage. The only thing she had in common with Adrian was that she was also an excellent student on the Honor Society. Aber Adrienne sollte nicht eine Angelegenheit für Diane sein.
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Diane und David waren im Sommer 1995 verrückt verliebt. In der Tat, nur wenige Wochen nachdem sie angefangen haben, wurden sie tatsächlich in der Hochschule eingeladen, mit Plänen, sich zu verheiraten, nachdem jeder von ihnen ihre entsprechende Militärtraining beendet hat. Okay.
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Diane wollte in die Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland gehen, während David die Air Force Academy nahe Colorado Springs, Colorado, besuchen würde. Sie haben sogar eine Datei für ihr Geburtstag vorgelegt. Fünf Jahre raus, August 13, 2000. Aber kurz nach der Erkennung ihres Engagements sagte Diane etwas, das die Dynamik zwischen ihr und David verändert hätte.
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Es würde sie noch mehr verbunden machen. Sie verlor tatsächlich ihre Weisheit von ihm, nachdem sie sich engagiert haben. Und nachdem das, wurde es definitiv intensiver zwischen den beiden. Manche sagten, dass David und Diane beide sich mehr über einander besitzen. David hatte immer sein Arm um Diane, als sie zusammen waren. Aber er hat auch anders geschehen.
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Er wurde kräftiger und intensiver, als er mit ihr war. Und diejenigen, die sie kennen, sagten, dass es schwer war, zu erzählen, wer in der Beziehung kontrolliert wurde. Aber es wurde definitiv etwas toxisch.
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So, could that have been what David was calling Adrian about that night? Was there some sort of lover's quarrel between David and Diane that he was confiding in Adrian about? Well, once police hear that Adrian spoke to him in the hours before her death, they call David in for questioning. But they just aren't convinced that this guy is involved. Maybe it was his polite nature.
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Maybe the fact that he was going to go serve his country. Or maybe it was the fact that not a single one of Adrian's friends mentioned him as suspicious. And that he was actually seen crying in the hallways after her death. Egal wie, sie haben David nicht mal einen Polygraph-Test gegeben, also fingen sie an, andersherum zu schauen.
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Wie zu einem anderen lokalen Mannsfeld-Jährigen, dessen Name niemals vorgesehen wurde, wahrscheinlich, weil sie damals eine Minerin war. Also für den Sinn der Geschichte, werden wir sie einfach Tammy nennen. Oh, okay. While his wounds weren't fatal, charges were definitely pressed against Tammy. She had a trial. And guess who testified against her? Adrian Jessica Jones.
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Tammy only got two years probation for delinquency. But many thought that was enough for her to seek revenge against Adrian. So the police pulled her down to the station, give her a polygraph. She passes. Plus, she has a really strong alibi. So she's off the list. Which brings them to their next suspect. Another name that Adrian's boyfriend Tracy brought up.
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Remember how she supposedly lied to Tracy on the phone that night and told him she was speaking to an old classmate named Brian McMillan, the one who had a crush on her and had dropped out of school? Well, Tracy tells police, hey, you gotta look into him too.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Und ich glaube, obwohl Brian aus der Schule gelaufen ist, sah er und Adrian immer noch einander, seitdem sie sich nahe beieinander gearbeitet haben. Aber als sie ihn anschauen, scheint es zu sein, dass Brian nicht nur einen Liebhaber von Adrian hatte. Es war ein bisschen mehr wie eine Obsession.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Er begann, sie ständig zu besuchen, bis es zu dem Punkt kam, dass sie sich verstecken und lügen musste, als er vorbeigekommen wurde. Habe das gehört, haben die Polizei entschieden, dass 17-jähriger Brian ein Verbrecher war. Und um ehrlich zu sein, war seine Geschichte ein bisschen schrecklich. Zuerst verurteilt er, Adrian alle zusammen zu kennen, wenn er die Polizei spricht.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Dann sagt er, okay, gut, ich kenne sie. Also nicht auf einen guten Start. Aber als sie ihm fragten, was er machte, am Abend, als Adrian verschwand, war er so, ich habe mich selbst getrunken.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Wenn Teenager andere Teenager töten, ist es entweder Leidenschaft oder.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
He told police he was upset that night because he realized all of his friends had girlfriends and he didn't. So this is raising all types of red flags for police. They even get a search warrant for Brian's house. They impound his truck. But Brian's friends all say, look, there's no way he hurt Adrian. He's a gentle soul. He would never hurt a fly. His dad also says, my son was home all night.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
There's no way. Still Brian sits in a jail cell from Christmas Eve to New Year's Eve. Eventually he's given a polygraph test. He passes with flying colors. So with zero evidence, police release Brian, which means they're back to square one. And that's where the case sits for a month. No new leads, no confessions or evidence, just dead end after dead end.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Währenddessen geht das Leben in Mansfield weiter. Für einige Menschen zumindest. Linda und Bill Jones finden sich immer noch auf der Straße zu fahren, wo Adrian gefunden wurde, weil sie denken, dass sie vielleicht dieses Mal etwas finden, was die Polizei verpasst hat. Einige Schüler versuchen immer noch, Griechische Begrüßung zu suchen.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Andere malen ein Porträt von Adrian auf der Tür des Werkstattes. Aber viele Schüler, wie David Graham und Diane Zamora, vorbereiten sich für den Rest ihres Lebens. As the two temporarily parted ways, the summer of 1996 was spent in intensive boot camps for both of them. Diane was at the Naval Academy in Maryland and David at the Air Force Academy in Colorado.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And while David was excelling in his training, Diane was having a much harder time with the physical training and with the distance from her fiancé David. Other cadets said she talked about him constantly. Yeah, I know where this is going now. So she thought, why not get him back? So Diane began cozying up to her squad leader, a guy named Jay Guild.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And she opened up to Jay about her relationship. And when Jay asked her why she didn't trust David, Diane told her it was because he had cheated on her in the past. And when Jay asked, okay, well, what did you do about it back then? Diane looked this man dead in the eyes and said, I made him kill the girl. Now Jay sort of laughs it off. I mean, she can't possibly be serious.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
But that's not the only time Diane says something like this. One night Diane's having a late night conversation with her two roommates telling them how deeply in love she and David are. And when one of them says to Diane, I bet you guys would do absolutely anything for each other, probably even kill for each other. You know what Diane says? Oh, we already have.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Now, there's an honor code in the Navy. It's called the Brigade of Midshipmen Honor Concept. And it basically requires anyone who hears of wrongdoing from a fellow officer to report it. Yep, no questions asked. Because if you don't, it could be grounds for dismissal from the Academy.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
I mean, we talked about earlier that there is an honor code when you're part of the military, even in the academy. So her roommates go and tell the people in charge and the people in charge don't just sit on this information. Officials call the police stations in and around Diane's hometown. They're like, hey, she's saying that her and her boyfriend killed a girl.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And sure enough, they learned that there's an unsolved case from last year, that of Adrian Jessica Jones.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
That both her and her boyfriend were questioned in.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
On August 30th, 1996, officers pulled her out of a pep rally and brought her in for questioning. Now, once Diane's confronted by these detectives and Navy officials, she says, I made the whole thing up for attention. I just wanted to look tough. Which the police think, okay, that could be possible. I mean, they have absolutely zero evidence on her besides other people.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Perhaps she heard the news on Adrian and is making a false confession. Wouldn't be the first time someone's done this. But she doesn't get to just resume classes the next day. She's given a one-way ticket home to Texas while police rule her out for sure. Only Diane doesn't go home to Texas.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
When she gets to Atlanta on her layover, she goes to the ticketing agent and says, hey, can you actually put me on a flight to Colorado? Next thing you know, she's showing up on David's doorstep.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Which is a very stupid mistake. Because that happens to be the detective's next stop. Obviously. So you're telling me that if she didn't go around saying that she killed someone, they probably would have gotten away with this. Yeah. So this friend is like, yeah, no, they showed up on my doorstep to change their clothing. They tell police that.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And then when police are talking to David and tell him, well, your friend said you showed up in bloody clothing, he breaks. From there, he goes on to write a four-page confession letter detailing every little thing that happened that December night back in 1995 and what happened leading up to it. And here's what he says. It all started at a track meet in November.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
This would be a month before Adrian's death. Adrian and David were away with the rest of the team for a cross-country event. And during that weekend, they got pretty close chatting during their free time. And when the buses finally dropped them off back at Mansfield High, Adrian asked David, hey, can you give me a ride home?
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
But instead of going directly there, he said they pulled into the elementary school parking lot and hooked up. Jetzt in der Fahrt. Und jetzt schreibt David, dass er so mit Schmerzen nachwuchs, dass er tatsächlich direkt zu Diane ging und ihr alles gesagt hat.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Diane, die ihre Vigilanz zu David verloren hat, als sie es nie geplant hat, was auch ihr Verwandter war, war so verletzt, dass sie sagt, dass die einzige Art, dass sie zusammenbleiben können und dass David ihre Vertrauen zurückzuholen kann, ist, wenn er Adrian tötet.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Ich möchte, dass du unseren Tisch saubern kannst.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Und wenn er nicht... Was? Wenn er nicht, sagt Diane, und wenn du es nicht tust, werde ich mich töten. Diane sagt, wenn du Adrian nicht tust, werde ich mich töten.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Oh mein Gott, das ist so schade. in her hand is a dumbbell gosh which she begins hitting adrian in the head with and david just sat there and watched well adrian loser gets out of the car he runs and that's when diane tells david go after her with your gun so he chases adrian into that field up to that barbed wire fence when he catches up to her he shoots her twice in the head now like
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Adrian hat einen guten Wochenende mit diesem Mann. Sie sprechen.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Sie hüpft mit ihm zusammen.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Und dann schießt er ihr in den Kopf.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Wie, das ist einfach falsch. Das ist einfach explizit dreckig und falsch.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
When David comes back to the car, he tells Diane he loves her. But he says, we shouldn't have done this. And we need to get rid of the evidence. So, of course, this is enough to get David behind bars. But now the next step is confronting Diane, because she was in the back seat. And when police get her back into the station, she admits to essentially the same story.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Police also get a search warrant for David Graham's house and find both the dumbbell and the gun used to kill Adrian. So game over. They're charged with capital murder and they are tried separately. Now 20-year-old Diane gets to trial. She's like, no, my confession was coerced. The jury isn't buying it.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And so after a two-week trial and a six-hour deliberation, they find Diane guilty of capital murder and she receives a life sentence.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Now David's trial comes five months later in July of 1998. His plan is similar. He hopes to argue he was trapped in a controlling partnership. But there's one giant twist in the whole story. Something David hasn't even seemed to share with Diane. One of the people called to the witness stand is Adrian's friend and fellow track athlete Wendy Bartlett.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
All right. Our sources for this episode are oxygen.com, dailymail.co.uk, denverpost.com, murderpedia.org, nbcnews.com, sportskita.com, people.com, investigationdiscovery.com, texasmonthly.com and dallasobserver.com. Honor, courage, commitment. Those are the core values, essentially the motto for the United States Navy.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And she claims that November day after the track meet up, she drove Adrian home. Nicht David, was bedeutet, dass sie keinen Sex im Auto hatten. David verurteilt, dass wir keinen Sex jemals hatten. Es war nur eine Lüge, die er gegründet hat, um Diane schmerzhaft zu machen. Eine, die einfach unglaublich aus der Hand wurde und die Situation sogar noch mehr unvorstellbar gemacht hat.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Weil wenn du mir sagst, dass sie keinen Sex hatten und er lügt und sie dann tötet. Sie hat keine Ahnung, was sie sogar getan hat.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
So, um, they return with a verdict guilty of capital murder. So it was initially a crime of passion had kind of inevitably driven a fake. Yeah. So, and I will say by the time they were both sentenced, David and Diane, who were once lovers had now become mortal enemies, which is always so ironic to me when people kill for love and then end up hating each other anyways.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Diane moved on quickly though, falling in love with another inmate. She married him in 2003, only to divorce him by 2010. And whether they like it or not, Diane Zamora and David Graham will be forever bound anyways. Only instead of marriage, it'll be because of the horrific crime they committed together over some senseless teenage love affair. It's crazy.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
When they were tried?
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And they got life.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Ein Beistandard. Es gibt etwas darüber, wenn wir Teenager betrachten, die andere Teenager töten. Es ist einfach nur schrecklich. Ich kann es nicht erklären, aber jedes Mal ist der Motiv so dumm.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
so young and like what like it really just goes to show that their brains are completely underdeveloped and that they're just bad people sorry we can't have those people in our society it's so sad horrible awful okay you guys that was the case of adrian jessica jones and we will see you next time with another one i love it i hate it goodbye
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
So when you think about the people that are willing to dedicate their lives to service, you might imagine people who intrinsically have these values and are able to uphold them with no problem. People who are stand-up citizens willing to go above and beyond for their communities and do whatever it takes to protect the American people. 1400 Meilen, wow.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
But as it turns out, not everyone is who they represent themselves to be. And sometimes those who hide behind the banner of honor, courage and commitment are really masking their shame, cowardness and cold-blooded nature.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And subscribe while you're there. So let's head back in time to 1995 as we travel to Mansfield, Texas. A farming community with an old indoor rodeo and a cute little main street lined with antique stores. Mansfield was a little slice of that all American life in Texas. And that's why Bill Jones and his wife Linda chose to raise their three children there.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And while they settled into a modest little neighborhood, a bubble of safety and comfort, Bill always went the extra mile to protect his kids, especially when they became teenagers. There were curfews, rules, checks and balances to keep them safe, even though they were in a safe area. If they went somewhere, they would have to prove it later on with a ticket stub or a receipt. V.a.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
ihre Teenager-Töchter Adrienne, oder wie ihre Freunde sie als AJ genannt haben, die seit Längerem mit ihrer rebellierten Teenager-Seite experimentiert hat. Sieh, Adrienne war die Textbuch-Definition der populären Mädchen. Sie war ein Junge an der Mansfield High School. Sie war eine Trackstar mit einer schönen Gesichter, die definitiv die Augen der meisten Jungs getroffen hat.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Sie hatte eine Menge Schulspirit, war praktisch ein Angeklagter ohne das Uniform und Pompons, aber sie hat auch auf ihren Akademiken gestanden und hat exzellente Grades bekommen, auch in ihren Honours-Kursen. Even her manager at her part time job at a fried chicken restaurant said Adrian was an exemplary employee. And on top of it all, she was nice.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Kids said Adrian would say hello to them in the hallway, even if she didn't know them. She was friendly, warm. She never acted snooty or above anyone else, which probably only added to her list of admirers.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And while Adrienne was definitely looking towards the future, hoping to get accepted to Texas A&M University and eventually get her veterinarian degree, Adrienne was also enjoying just being a teenager. And she did what most teenagers girls do. She flirted with a lot of boys. And good for her. But her parents were not fond of it.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Mostly because Adrienne was sick of all the rules that her parents had put in place. It prevented her from having a good time living her teenage years to the fullest.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
But you really just, you have no idea.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
So with a strict 10 p.m. curfew, she found ways to sneak out through her bedroom window. That was until they caught her and decided to bolt her window shut. Still, as teenagers always do, Adrienne found creative ways to skirt the rules. Little did she realize, those rules were meant to protect her from the very thing that would happen next. It was Sunday, December 3rd, 1995.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Winter break was fast approaching and Adrian was probably excited about some time off from school and her responsibilities. She just spent her Sunday afternoon working a half day shift at the Golden Fried Chicken Restaurant. She was also a ball of energy. When she got home that day, she asked her mom Linda if she wanted to go down to the 24-hour fitness center with her.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
It was just a few miles away. So Linda took her down there, always enjoying that quality time between the two of them, and said she even remembered the conversation that they had at the gym that night. Adrienne was thinking about her new career path. She said she was interested in learning why people act the way they do.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
So her mother was like, hey, you might be interested in becoming a behavioral analyst. But she didn't seem to ask why Adrian had this sudden change in interest or if something or someone in particular had sparked it. So after their workout, they returned home to settle in for the night. By then, it was around 10.45 p.m., so after Adrian's curfew.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
It's after her curfew, but the phone rings when they walk in the door. Adrian answers. Adrian took the portable phone to her bedroom. Remember, we're in the 90s. And then walked around the house chatting while puttering around with laundry and a few other things. Eventually, Linda, her mom, told Adrian, hey, go to bed. Before Linda went to bed.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
But Adrian wasn't planning to go to sleep anytime soon. Instead, she waited until everything was quiet. And sometime between 11 p.m. and 1 a.m., she slipped past her parents' bedroom and out the front door of the house, completely unnoticed. Around 6 a.m. the following morning, Linda woke up to the sound of Adrian's alarm clock ringing in her room.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
After realizing Adrian wasn't doing anything to turn the alarm off, Linda got up groggily and wandered into her daughter's room, only to find that Adrian wasn't there and her bed was neatly made. Now, Linda's first instinct is Adrian just went out for an early morning run, something she would do. But by 8 a.m., when Adrian still wasn't back, Linda started to panic.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
She immediately called the Mansfield police, who sent an officer to the house to help them file a missing persons report. Meanwhile... Okay. Okay. Oh mein Gott. Wir wissen, wer das ist. Plus, there were a few telling clues about what might have happened.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Like, the girl appeared to be clutching the grass, which told detectives this was where she died, than rather where she had been moved and left after she was killed. And it only took a few hours for them to realize the Jane Doe matched a missing persons case that had just been reported over in Mansfield. The deceased body was 16-year-old Adrian Jessica Jones.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And he's the husband.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
So one of the first things detectives need to allow after making the connection is, is this an abduction? There's no indication of a struggle in Adrian's home. Plus the autopsy doesn't show any signs that Adrian was restrained or bound. She also didn't really have any defensive wounds of any kind.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
So they quickly realized that Adrian must have willingly left her house, whether that was with the attacker or not. But this also told them that she probably knew her attacker. So they start compiling a list of friends, coworkers and fellow students to speak with. But because Adrian was so popular, it kind of turned out to be a pretty long list.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
They began asking around, was there anyone that Adrian didn't get along with? Maybe someone was angry with her, was a girl jealous of her. And that's when the wild theories and rumors started to emerge. And you have to imagine in this small town in Texas in the 90s, Eine populäre Frau wird tot. Sie sprechen mit den Leuten in der Schule. Und die Leute fangen einfach an zu sprechen.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Jemand sagte, dass sie Adrienne gehört haben, dass sie alle Nacht Rave verbracht hat, die etwa eine Stunde von Mansfield entfernt war. Es gab Geräusche, dass Adrienne vielleicht jemanden dort kennengelernt hätte, der sie getötet hätte. Oh. Andere sagten, nein, nein, nein. Adrienne wusste Drogendealers, die turned out to be completely baseless. Dude.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
The problem with in a town like this, it probably wasn't just the kids.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
A few even mentioned a former friend of Adriens who had been angry with her ever since Adrian told the girl's mom that she was drinking at a party like she tattled on her. So there was a ton of speculation, but not much evidence, which only made things even harder for police. But there seemed to be one thing a lot of kids at Mansfield High could agree on. The killer was likely in their halls.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
And I know we did have a lot of requests for another Strangie Danger Drop. So that will be coming in the future. So just get ready for that. We heard you. It is coming again. All right, Garrett, do you have our, your 10 seconds?
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
They had a locker beside them probably. They were sitting across from them in the cafeteria. They were sharing a school project with them.
Murder With My Husband
258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Und der Grund, warum das die Theorie ist, ist, weil die Polizei glaubt, dass sie rausgeflogen ist, um mit jemandem zu verabschieden. Und diese Person hat sie getötet. Ja. Sie war wahrscheinlich rausgeflogen, um mit jemandem zu verabschieden, der ihr eigenes Alter ist und aus der Schule kommt. Also sind es 2500 Schüler in ihrer Schule. Also, es wäre nicht einfach, es zu vergrößern.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Wir sind Theresa und Nemo und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Linda sagte, als der Telefon um 10.45 Uhr klingelte, hat Linda gefragt, mit wem Adrian gesprochen hat, und Adrian sagte, es war ein 18-jähriger Junge, erinnere dich, Adrian ist ein Junge, namens David Graham, der auf Adrians Cross-Country-Team war.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Linda wollte Adrian den Telefon anrufen, dass es über ihr Bett war, aber Adrian hatte einen interessanten Blick auf ihre Gesichter, und sie schrie ihrer Mutter, er ist überrascht über etwas. So Linda let her keep chatting, thinking, okay, she's just being a good friend. But sometime during that conversation, Linda heard Adrian switch callers.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
She was now talking to her new boyfriend, a 19-year-old boy named Tracy Smith. But when Tracy, her boyfriend, asked her who she was just speaking to on the phone before him, Adrienne doesn't say David Graham, the 18-year-old, like she had told her mom. She said she was on the line with a third boy. So she either lied to her mom or actually did talk to all three boys.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
It was a kid named Brian McMillan, who had dropped out of her high school after suffering from depression, but he still had a big crush on her. So if she did lie, why? Well, some of her friends think it's because Tracy knew Brian and didn't feel threatened by him.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
But if she said she had been speaking with someone else, a senior on her track team, then Tracy, her new boyfriend, might have felt jealous. So they think that she's lying to her boyfriend, is what the consensus is. Still, it's not Tracy that Linda, the mother, is worried about.
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258. The Killer Cadets - The Murder of Adrienne Jessica Jones
Es ist dieser Name David, der eigentlich mit ihr verbunden ist, weil sie nie wirklich gehört hat, dass Adrian diesen Mann vorher erwähnt hat. Und dann lügt Adrian zu ihrem Freund darüber. Also checkt sie mit dem Track Coach. Sagt, was weißt du über David? Und der Track Coach ist wie David Graham. I didn't even know your daughter and David were friends.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Just along the footpath, there's a patch of brush and Kelly's feet and running shorts are seen sticking out from there. So they land the helicopter. Sie denken, vielleicht ist Kelly lebendig, aber wenn sie dort kommen und die Verletzungen an ihrem Kopf sehen, dann bemerken sie schnell, dass Kelly definitiv nicht überlebt hat, den Angriff, den sie hatte.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Es scheint, dass sie immer wieder in den Kopf geschlagen wurde, mit einem flachen, runden Objekt von irgendeinem Art, und sie denken, ein Hammer. Und es gibt eine Trelle von Blut, die durch den Bruch führt. Aber Kelly hat keine Sand auf ihren Schuhen oder Beinen, was bedeutet, dass sie wahrscheinlich nicht durch den Sand gegangen war, um zu diesem Spot in der Brust zu kommen.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Sie wurde wahrscheinlich aus der Sicht getötet und dann entweder gedrückt oder gedrückt. Das war klar, was sie benutzt hat, um sie zu transportieren. But the autopsy later shows there were no signs of a struggle, that whatever happened between Kelly and her attacker, these blows to her head, Kelly did not see them coming. She was blindsided by this. She didn't even have a chance to fight back.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Genuinely, people don't understand how swollen your face was. He looked like he had just gone literally out of a UFC fight where he didn't throw one punch the entire time. No, it was...
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
It was swift and vicious. They likely snuck up behind her and with a few quick blows knocked her unconscious before she could even understand what was happening.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
attacked kelly is it sheila or do we like what is like this is the strangest case because wasn't she just in the hospital earlier that night but this happened the night before oh okay So naturally, one of the first people the police are going to explore in any case is a spouse. So they know they have Sheila, but they're like, we're just going to look into the spouse, obviously.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
And let's face it, it wasn't looking good for Kelly's husband, Gino. After Daniel Trott tells them about the time he came banging down his door and attacking him like, hey, I was seeing his wife. My wife, Sheila, knows everything. Ich kann es gar nicht vorstellen. Es ist schon genug seltsam, dass die Polizei sagt, oh, Sheila sah ihren Freund in einem Traum und dann fuhr und fand ihr Körper.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Und jetzt lernen sie, oh, Sheila hat auch ihren Ex-Husband kennengelernt, Kelly. Und Kelly lügt auf Gino, weil Gino nicht... Ja, was für ein Mess. Es ist einfach so ein Mess. Und Daniel sagt ihnen, oh ja, Gino ist definitiv violent, er kam und tat das. Aber hier ist das Problem. Gino hat ein Alibi, und es ist ein ziemlich guter. Er wird auf Videokurse von Walgreens gesehen, während Kellys Tod.
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Also ist das genug, um die Polizei ihn auszulösen, für den Zeitraum, weshalb sie sofort sagen, hey, naja. Jetzt gehen wir zurück zu der Frau, die den Verurteilung beurteilt hat. Und das war ihre Freundin Sheila Trott. Denn es sind nicht nur die Träume, die Sheila ein bisschen schuldig machen, wenn sie ein bisschen mehr in die Polizei steigen.
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Es sind nicht mal die seltenen, schmerzhaften Symptome, die sie gestern Nacht erlebte. Es war das, was sie sogar vorher gemacht hat. Erinnert ihr euch, wie ihr Sohn sagte, dass sie diese Episoden begonnen hat? Und dann riefen sie 911, nachdem sie von einer Reise nach Wal-Mart zurückgekehrt ist. Sie ist nach Wal-Mart gegangen, ist zurückgekommen und hat diese Episoden begonnen.
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Diese Wal-Mart-Reise hat sie vier Stunden gedauert. Like when they start interviewing the kids. Now, believe me, I know you can get held up in a place like Walmart, but four hours is very, very long. And interestingly enough, when police ask, the kids are like, oh, actually, she came home empty handed. She had no groceries. Like she went to Walmart, but came home without anything.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Still, the police feel pretty confident at this point that the intel Sheila had about Kelly's murder, it wasn't a dream. Sheila isn't some psychic. The odds are far more likely that Sheila did something to her longtime friend Kelly Brennan.
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We'll tell people, oh, his eyes are swollen. And they'll be like, oh, yeah. And then I'll pull up a picture and they'll be like, oh, my gosh.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
And according to those who knew Sheila, the divorce between her and Daniel was a lot uglier than she had made it seem to Kelly and honestly was making it seem to everyone. Apparently. While Sheila and Dan were married, Dan had been having affairs with other women long before the two decided to separate in 2009, around the same time that Kelly and Gina were trying to figure things out.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
So after Sheila caught Dan without his ring on one too many times, she finally confronted him about it and eventually told him she wanted a divorce. And that story about her setting Kelly and Dan up to speed up the process...
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Well, that may have been Sheila's version of events, but Daniel claimed that he and Kelly had connected when he joined this new cycling group after the separation, one which Kelly Brennan was already a part of. And once the two started hooking up, they kept it a secret from everyone, including Kelly's husband Gino and Sheila.
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So Dan is like, no, Sheila didn't tell Kelly to date me. Me and Kelly just started dating on our own. So if you ask Dan, there was no setup. In fact, several people who knew the couple were like, no, that's weird. Sheila never would have told Kelly to date Dan. Denn, wie die Leute sagen, ist Sheila besessen mit Daniel.
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Vielleicht wollte ein Teil von ihr hoffen, dass der Zeitraum gut wäre und sie endlich zurückkommen würden. Nur Kelley Brennan schlug in diese Pläne einen ziemlich großen Rutsch. Es war auch kein Verständnis, dass Daniel und Sheila am 17. Februar 2010, zwei Tage nach der Tötung von Kelley, Mediation starten mussten. As far as concrete evidence against Sheila Trott, there just isn't any.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
That reusable grocery bag with Kelly's purse and wallet, the one that Sheila's sons said their mom led them to, the police can't find it anywhere.
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Sie sagt, nein, ich denke, es ist nur ein Traum. Aber als sie ihren nervösen Ausbruch hatte, gab sie die Möglichkeit.
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Ja, also bringen sie sie in. Und tatsächlich, das wird wirklich schnell gehen. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Die ganze Sache ist unglaublich bizarr, weil es war, ich meine, die Polizei hätte sie nicht sogar gespürt. Es gab nichts, was sie anzeigte. Aber jetzt sind die Polizei-Figuren, sie sind das Beste, was sie haben.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Well, they're going to say that she confessed, essentially.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
I was going to say, that's not going to hold up in court. Right, she was having a nervous breakdown.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But then also you tell a jury, well, she led us right to the body. Yeah. That's a little suspicious as well. So not only is she facing first degree murder charges for killing her soon to be ex-husband's girlfriend, who was also her friend. She's also denied bail. So Sheila Trott sits behind bars for four and a half years. Whoa. Awaiting her trial. And the entire time she insists, she's innocent.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
She's like, I was just freaking out. I really did just have a dream. I did not do this.
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She's denied bail. So you can't get out while you're prepping for trial. And it's just kind of up, it's just case to case about who gets denied bail and who doesn't.
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I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure no, because that is just the way the justice system works. Even though you were found not guilty, it still took... The proper channels of you building a defense.
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Okay, but you have a right to a speedy trial.
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What I'm saying is, I think technically her defense could have said, no, we need to go to trial now, even if the state wasn't ready.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But they must not have. Something happened. They must have been trying to build a defense as well.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
So, she's like, I'm innocent the whole time. As soon as she gets arrested, she says, I'm innocent. And because of this, she doesn't take a plea deal. She had took a deal. She probably would have been, it wouldn't have taken four years. She waits until September of 2014 for her day in court.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Now, the defense feels pretty confident at the very least that they have a good case for at least some reasonable doubt. As I mentioned, there's practically nothing in a way of physical evidence against Sheila. But the prosecution paints a convincing narrative for the jury of what they believed happened that night at trial. And this is what they say.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
On the evening of February 15th, back in 2010, Sheila left her house sometime between 6 to 7 p.m. telling her sons she was making a trip to Walmart. But that was a total lie. Instead, Sheila went to Kelly Brennans house, waited in her yard, and as Kelly was leaving, she snuck up behind her, ambushed her, and attacked her from behind.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Likely with a hammer for the autopsy, even though no weapon was ever found. And Kelly never saw it coming. They suggested that Sheila then put Kelly in her own car and drove the 13 miles to Mark's Landing, where she left her body, and then drove back to Caddo Court, parked Kelly's car there, before making the half a mile walk back to her own car that was still parked at Kelly's house.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Now, part of this narrative is based on two things that they found in Kelly Brennans yard. A drag mark and blood seemingly leading to Kelly's vehicle. So this is where they believe the initial attack happened, was at Kelly's home. But the defense... Yeah, uh-huh. This was in the front yard.
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And Daisy's barking at me to go outside. So I'll pass it off to Peyton. All right, you guys. Our sources for this episode are cbsnews.com, wesh.com, wftv.com, abcnews.go.com, mynews13.com, murderpedia, floridatoday.com, sa18.org. So I think that most of us can relate to having a bad nightmare from time to time.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Not to mention that blood found in Kelly's yard that police believe was the evidence showing that it happened there. Only one sample of that blood was collected and sent to a lab during the investigation and when they ran it against Kelly's blood, it came back negative.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Was die Polizei nicht getestet hat, war das Blut, das neben Kellys Körper auf Marks Landing gefunden wurde. Die Verteidigung sagte, das sei nur schade Polizistische Arbeit, weil das Blut von einem Attaker sein könnte. Und ihr habt es nie getestet, also könnt ihr nicht beweisen, ob es nicht mein Klient war.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Ansonsten gibt es nicht ein einziges Stück DNA, Blut, Haar, oder so etwas, das Sheila Trott auf die Szene des Verbrechens stellt. Aber die Befragung kommt zurück mit einer Erklärung dafür. Aufgrund eines Nachbarn, der sagte, dass sie eine blonde Frau an Kellys Haus gestern Nacht gesehen haben und sie war in einem leichgelbigen Outfit.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Einer, den Detektivs entdeckt haben, könnte Sheila in einem gelben Hazmat-Suit sein. So the neighbor said, oh, she was in like a light colored outfit. She was blonde. And the prosecution was like, that was Sheila wearing a hazmat suit, which is why we found no DNA.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Well, they could have actually seen a woman.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Ich denke, dass es mehr um die Verwaltung geht, denn wie nimmst du das Testimonial eines leichten Farbens und nimmst es in einen Hasmat-Suit, weshalb es kein DNA gibt?
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Aber auch, von dem, was ich sehe, haben die Polizei nicht viel gemacht, um Samples von Kellys Haus oder wo ihr Körper gefunden wurde, zu sammeln. Und bevor du mich mit deinem Telefon schreien kannst, bin ich nicht gegen Sheila. Okay, ich bin nicht im Pro-Sheila-Kampf gerade.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Was ich sage, ist, dass ich fühle, dass es mehr Investitionen gab, die so weit wie physische Beweise in dieser Investition gemacht hätten, die überhaupt helfen würden in jedem Trial, ob das gegen oder für Sheila war oder nicht. Wie gesagt, sie haben wirklich keine Samples von Kellys Haus oder wo die Körper gefunden wurden. Es gab Blut, wo die Körper gefunden wurden und sie haben es nicht gekauft.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Das ist der Grund, warum die Verteidigung glaubt, dass es eine andere, wahrscheinlichere Verbrecherin gibt, und sie glauben, dass es Gino ist. Er hatte Daniel bereits an seinem Zuhause bedroht, nachdem er zuerst über das Verhältnis gelernt hat. Erinnert ihr euch, wie er mit diesem Fahrrad aufgehört hat und Schmerzen verursacht hat?
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Laut Dan brachte Gino Kelly nach Hause und begann, sie in den Garag zu zerstören, also war er auch mit ihr gewaltig. Und dann, zwei Monate später, ist Kelly tot. Aber als Gino den Stand aufgenommen hat, hat er den Fokus wieder auf Sheila gelegt.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Not only did Gino have a solid alibi during the time that they think Kelly died, was caught on that security footage, he said that Sheila would call and email him all the time, trying to provoke him into doing something about the affair.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But Gino said that Sheila, so the woman being accused of killing Kelly, would call and email him all the time, trying to provoke him into doing something about their basically spouse's affair. In fact, she was the one who told him it was happening.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
You know that feeling of waking up in a cold sweat, remembering every vivid little detail. Like maybe it was just a little too real. But a few minutes after returning to reality, most of us can shake it off. Like genuinely, when I have a nightmare, I actually shake it off. And then a dream at that point is just a dream. And there's nothing real or truthful about them.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Aber Sheila negiert all das, sagt, nein, ich habe nie Botschaften gesendet, hoffte, Gino zu triggeren oder ihn zu verletzen, dass sie wirklich nicht überrascht war über das Verhältnis selbst. Offensichtlich muss sie das für ihre Verteidigung sagen. Nur wie viel Geld Dan jetzt auf seine neue Freundin spart. Aber die Verwaltungen hatten noch einen letzten Trick auf ihren Hüften.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Zwei Anwesende, die den Stand nehmen, um ihre Erfahrungen von that night zu beschreiben. Und es war Sheila's Sons, Graham und Creighton Trott.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Graham erzählt dem Jurist genau, wie seltsam seine Mutter am Abend, als sie nach Hause kam, aus ihrem vier-Hour-Walmart-Trip, ausgedrückt war. Wie sie ihre Hände gegen den Wall schlug, was er dachte, dass sie eine Sehnsucht hatte. Aber er beschreibt auch, was nach der Besuchsmusik am Abend passiert ist. Wie sie von einem Traum erwacht ist, dass sie Kelly's Gesicht auf der Straße gesehen hat.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Wie sie dachte, dass Kelly verletzt wurde. Aber Grahams Testimony ist jetzt ein bisschen anders, als er es den Polizisten im heutigen Tag erzählt hat. im Februar 2010. Jetzt sagt er, er hat seine Mutter nie am Abend später gesagt, dass sie Kelly verletzt hat, nur, dass sie verletzt war.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Also ändert er und sagt, nein, meine Mutter hat nie am Abend tatsächlich verletzt, was nicht an diesen Polizeitranskripten von vier Jahren her ist. In denen sagt er den Polizisten, dass später seine Mutter über und über wieder sagte, dass vielleicht sie die war, die Kelly verletzt hat. But when that's brought up in court, it doesn't look great for Sheila Trott.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Neither does the rest of her son's stories about her taking them to the exact spot where Kelly was found. And the fact that they drove her to the lot where she discovered Kelly's purse and wallet. But before the trial wraps, there's one last twist. A final piece of evidence presented to the jury. And it comes from Sheila Trott herself.
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It is a 22-page letter that was written while Sheila was behind bars. It is her personal account of what really happened on the night of February 15, 2010. And in it, Sheila makes a confession, just not the kind that you'd think.
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In it she writes that dream that she had that evening, she now knows it wasn't a dream, it wasn't a premonition, it was a memory of what she witnessed earlier that evening. So this is her story now at trial.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
She claims she stopped by Kelly's house on the way to Walmart that evening when she noticed another car she didn't recognize in her driveway. She had to park on the street because there was no room, but when she got out and approached the house, she saw a man standing before Kelly's front door and the two were arguing.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Sheila couldn't make out the guy who he was because she said it was too dark outside, but she figured this had to just be another one of Kelly's lovers, maybe one she wasn't familiar with. Okay. Okay. And that's when she raced home, eventually had her panic attack, got her sons involved, goes to the hospital in a crisis and then plays it off as a dream later that night.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Zumindest nicht normalerweise. Aber jedes Mal, wenn uns diese Träume mit einem verlassenen Gefühl verlassen, einem Was-Wenn, vielleicht wie ein Wunsch, eine Prämonition. Die Frage ist, ob du darauf agierst. Well, if you asked Sheila Trott, she would say she didn't have a choice. When she had a dream about one of her good friends dying, she had to tell someone.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Nun, es gibt vieles, was in dieser Version nicht wirklich Sinn macht, wie warum Sheila nicht nur an die Polizei gegangen wäre, nachdem sie Kelly verurteilt hatte.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Ja, es gibt so viele Fragen. Warum sie lügen würde, dass es ein Traum sei. Ja. Und wie sie auf die Tasche von Kellys Verhältnissen später herausgekommen ist. Plus, ihre Version passt nicht mit dem, was die Autopsie gesagt hat, dass das eine swifte Angriff von hinterher war.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Now it's very likely that a lot of these plot holes came up during the trial, but Sheila never took the stand, meaning many of these questions went unanswered. Though really, it seems the jury didn't need to hear any of it. She had already said enough. Less than three hours after deliberation, the jury of six returned with a verdict. Sheila Trott was guilty of first degree murder.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
She was sentenced to life in prison. To this day, Sheila Trott maintains her innocence. She says Kelly's real life killer is out there walking free. Sheila believes her crime was not stopping the attack when she saw it happen in real time or going to the police. And while she's filed appeal after appeal, Sheila has not been granted any sort of retrial.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Both of her sons have told the press that they actually believe their mother is innocent. That what she says in that 22-page letter matches up
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But if that had been the case, then Kelly Brennans friends and family might still have a lot of unanswered questions today as well.
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Can I say what I was going to say? Not having enough evidence to convict is different than you thinking she's innocent.
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Okay, don't blame the jury. They can be persuaded to do anything. Very rarely is it the jury's fault.
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I feel like she probably deserves a retrial just based on the fact that the investigation wasn't done very well. I don't know, though, at the retrial, there's nothing to retest. They didn't collect the blood.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But what are the chances she didn't do it? I mean, crazier things have happened. I understand, but like, I too would have a nervous breakdown if I murdered my friend.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
No, you wouldn't. You would call the cops.
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I know. I know. Everyone's different. It's completely possible that she watched someone do it and had a nervous breakdown instead.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Ich würde sagen, dass die meisten Leute wahrscheinlich nicht wieder kämpfen würden in solchen Situationen. Wegen des Kampf- oder Fliegerinstinkts.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Ja, aber ich denke, neunmal aus zehn würden sie die Polizei anrufen.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But then why did she, she had all the time in the world in the car.
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And because her premonition was right, it actually put her at the center of a murder investigation. I mean, imagine that. Imagine having a dream that one of your friends is dead. And then you go to police and say, hey, and then it turns out she was murdered. And police are like, well, you're, you know, how did you know that?
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
I just, I understand that she could have been in a haze. Call me soft. I understand that she could have been in a haze following there, right? But then where does this bag... I'm just still very confused. All the sources weren't very clear about this bag that contained the belongings, because then all of a sudden it just went missing. I don't know. It just feels to me like the investigation...
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Aber es ist fast so, dass ich nicht, okay, ich gehe in Kreisen, aber es ist fast so, dass ich die Polizei nicht verurteilen kann, weil wenn du einen Anruf von jemandem bekommst, der seinen Ex-Husband, der laut allen anderen, er ist noch in Liebe mit, ist, diese Frau zu verabschieden, die jetzt tot ist, und sie hat gesagt, ich hätte es vielleicht getan. Was sonst wird die Polizei tun?
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Hör auf, erinnere dich an den Fall, den wir veröffentlicht haben, wo dieser Kerl einen Traum hatte.
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I just feel like you're writing a little hard right now.
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And I would agree with that. We are 100% on the same page in that regard.
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In order for our justice system to work correctly, it has to be black and white. And if there is not enough, if there is reasonable doubt, someone should not be convicted. Even if it feels like they did it.
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The circumstantial evidence is just really heavy hitting in this one. I don't know. All of her family thinks she's innocent. That's a doozy of a case.
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Alright you guys, that was our episode and we will see you next time with another one. I love it. Goodbye.
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Es ist 2010 und wir sind in Indialandic, Florida. Eine kleine kleine Stadt auf dem oberen Osten mit weniger als 2.800 Leuten. Und das ist, wo 46-jähriger Kelly Brennan lebt. Und obwohl ich nicht viel über Kellys Ursprung weiß, weiß ich, dass sie ziemlich populär in der Stadt war.
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Du hörst einen Ono Media Podcast. Hey alle, willkommen zurück zum Podcast. Das ist Mörder mit meinem Mann. Ich bin Peyton Moreland.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Kelly arbeitete als registriertes Rettungsärztin am Holmes Regional Medical Center, nur ein paar Meilen entfernt in Melbourne, Florida. Und als sie nicht zu ihren Patienten da war, war sie auf der Welt, lebte ihr Leben zu voll.
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Kelly and her husband of six years, a restaurant manager named Gino, they didn't have any kids, which meant Kelly had plenty of time for her personal passions like kayaking, bike riding, hiking, anything outdoorsy. Sie hat auch mit Organisationen wie ISMS Operation Kids geholfen, die sie nach Marokko gebracht haben.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Kellys Freunde und Familie sagten, dass sie sich immer beschäftigt hat, dass es niemals einen blöden Moment mit Kelly gab, in dem sich kontagierende Lachen jeden Tag umdrehen könnten. Sie sagen, dass die Leute wirklich auf sie gravitierten und auf sie schauten, wenn sie einen Führer brauchten.
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And actually at the hospital where she worked, she was given the nickname The Sarge because she wasn't afraid to stand up and just take the lead. And shockingly, she managed to do a lot of these things through one of the toughest periods of her life. This was when she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, just a few years back.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
And friends said, even with this diagnosis, it never slowed Kelly down. Even when she would have bad flare-ups, Kelly would work through it, refusing to give her condition any power over her. And it only made the people who admired Kelly love her even more, including her good friend, Sheila Trott. Now, Sheila was a transplant to this area in Florida. She actually grew up in Ontario, Canada.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Ich war nicht sicher, ob du diese Woche zurück sein würdest. Also bin ich wirklich glücklich. Ihr hättet schon gesehen, wie er aussieht.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But throughout the years, she gained an obsession with the water, which ultimately drew her to Florida for college, where she also worked part time as a dive instructor. And it was around that time, back in the late 80s or early 90s, that Sheila and Kelly first met actually.
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Kelly was a nursing student and Sheila, fresh out of school herself, was working three different jobs to help pay for her fiancé, Daniel Trotz, flight training. Sheila at this point apparently would have done anything for Dan, so it wasn't surprising she was working three jobs to get him through school.
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And when they eventually tied the knot in August of 26th, 1989, it's possible that Kelly was even invited to that wedding. But over the years, Kelly and Sheila would sort of go their separate ways, live their own lives. Sheila became a real estate agent. She had two boys, Creighton and Graham, all while her husband Daniel became that licensed pilot before going into politics in 2002.
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Aber auch dann gab es kein schlechtes Blut zwischen Sheila und Kelly. In der Tat, sie hatten die Art Freundschaft, wo, auch wenn sie nicht für ein paar Monate oder sogar Jahre gesprochen haben, weil ihre Leben auf verschiedene Wege gegangen sind, es fühlte sich so an, als ob sie direkt zurückkommen könnten, wo sie weggegangen sind, als sie wieder gesprochen haben.
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Zumindest ist das so, wie es Sheila sagt. Sie hat sogar gesagt, dass die beiden sich auf einander gelegt haben, als sie durch schwierige Zeiten in ihren Beziehungen gingen. Sehen Sie, bis Ende 2009 waren Kelly und ihr Mann Gino nicht in einem guten Ort. Die beiden hatten sich apartiert und es sah so aus, als ob Kelly nicht sicher war, ob ihr Verheiratetsein weitergehen würde.
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Also kommt sie zu Sheila und Sheila kann damit sympathisieren. An diesem Punkt waren sie und Daniel auch separat und auf dem Weg zum Verheiratetsein. Und Sheila war ziemlich ehrgeizig, das Ganze zu lösen und die Vergangenheit hinter ihr zu legen. Das ist der Grund, weshalb sie eine seltsame Empfehlung an Kelly gemacht hat, als die beiden eine Nacht zu Abend gingen.
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Sheila sagt Kelly, ihrem Freund, hey, ich denke, du und Dan würdest ein ziemlich schönes Paar machen. Dan ist Sheilas Mann, den sie jetzt versucht, zu verheiratet zu machen. Sie sagt ihrem Freund Kelly, du kannst es machen. Habe meinen fast bald zu sein Ex-Mann. Du hast meine Aufmerksamkeit. Ich denke, ihr würdet ein tolles Paar machen.
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Aber according to Sheila, she felt like this would actually help speed up the divorce process. If someone else was in the picture, like if Daniel.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Yeah. And so would maybe even save thousands in legal fees. And it seems like Kelly goes along with the suggestion. I'm not sure how long the two were seeing each other for. It was at least a couple months. But I know Sheila was obviously aware that Und anscheinend hat Gino darüber gelernt, in einem schweren Weg. Denn einer Nacht zeigt er sich in Dan Trotts Wohnung, während Kelly dort ist.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Er schießt in die vordere Tür und laut Daniel trägt er einen Art Jack in seiner Hand, den er benutzt hat, Daniel in den Händen und Gesicht zu schießen. Kelly verabschiedet sich mit Gino am Abend. Sein Mann, der Rock, auf dem Rocks Verabschiedung. Vielleicht als Versuch, ihn zu entschärfen. Aber das beendete nicht die Beziehung zwischen Dan und Kelly.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Und ich muss vorlesen, dass, obwohl Dan seine Frau, Ex-Frau Sheila weiß, was los ist. Ich meine, sie hat es vorgestellt. Kelly und Gino sind noch nicht verabschiedet. Und so ist Gino das als ein Verhältnis.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Der Angriff? Ja. Nein. Okay. Also, all das, Gino kommt her und schießt Dan auf, drückt eigentlich Kelly weiter in Dan's Arme. Es scheint, dass Kelly mit ihrer Freundin Jane nach der Verabschiedung eingegangen ist. Und als sie aus der Verabschiedung geschaut hat, hat sie und Dan immer wieder einander gesehen. Also geht das gut bis Februar 2010.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
But on the night of the 15th, Kelly was supposed to meet with her personal trainer at her local gym for a 9 p.m. appointment. And when she didn't show, the trainer alerted Kelly's roommate. And after two hours of trying to reach Kelly and checking with every police station, fire rescue and hospital in the area, they decide it is time to file a missing persons report because no one can find Kelly.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Now, I don't think her friend Sheila was high up on the list of emergency contacts for Kelly. So it is possible she hadn't even heard about Kelly's disappearance on the night of the 15th. But that evening, Sheila has her own set of strange experiences. After coming home from a trip to Walmart, Sheila's teenage sons noticed she's not doing well.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
She's dizzy and shaky, almost having seizure-like symptoms. So her son's girlfriend is like, hey, we need to call 911. So the paramedics show up to the house. Keep in mind, Kelly's missing at this point. They run a bunch of routine checks on Sheila. She seems to be fine. So they say, hey, if anything gets worse, call us, but we're going to leave.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
And then another hour later, the girlfriend calls 911 again, says, hey, she's still acting out of sorts. She's had another seizure. Can you come back? So this time they come back and they take her to the hospital. But again, after a bunch of routine tests, they cannot find anything wrong with Sheila. It's bizarre, but they release her. They tell her to go home and get some rest. And she does.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Which personally for me, if I was having unexplainable seizures and not feeling well, I would be like, no, I'm not going home. You can try to discharge me, but I'm not going home. But she does. And she falls asleep in her own bed for a few hours. But then, she wakes up in the middle of the night calling for her youngest son, 16-year-old Graham.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Sie sagt ihm, ich hatte nur einen schrecklichen Traum. In dem sagt sie, ich habe die Foto-Schnitte von Kelly Brennans Gesicht gesehen. Kelly, ihr Freund, der sich jetzt mit ihrem Ex-Husband verheiratet. Und sie denkt, dass Kelly verletzt ist, basierend auf diesem Traum. Vielleicht sogar in Gefahr. Und sie sagt ihrem 16-Jährigen, wir müssen sie finden.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Sheila ist, ich glaube, sie ist irgendwo auf der Straße, über einem Ort, der sich namens Marks Landing nennt. Okay, ja.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Also, Sheila's Söhne sagen, okay, Mama sagt, wir gehen. Lass uns sie rausnehmen, sie fahren sie um. Keine Ahnung. Ruhig ihre Fähigkeiten aufhalten und sie zeigen, dass alles okay ist. Also, sie kommen da. Sie kommen aus dem Auto. Sie gehen um die Gegend. Und nur als die Jungs sagen, siehst du, Mama, alles ist in Ordnung. Wir können weg. Sie sehen etwas.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Es sind Füße, die aus der Brust auf dieser Florida Beach stecken. Und ein Schatten eines Körpers in Workout-Tüten kann gesehen werden. Also beginnen sie zu paniken. Sie kommen zurück in das Auto. Sie sind so... Mom just had a premonition or a dream that she was going to be here and be in trouble. And then this is what they find. They're like, Mom, you were right.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
And she goes, okay, but we also need to go somewhere else. There is a vacant lot nearby that we need to go to. So the boys drive her to that destination as well, where she finds a reusable grocery bag. And inside of it is Kelly's purse and wallet and her I.D.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Oh, I wouldn't... I don't know. It's their mom. Yeah, I'd probably be like, Mom... Du musst etwas herausfinden. Du musst etwas herausfinden. Ich mache das nicht.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Das sind Teenager. Und so gehen sie nach Hause und sagen, ich weiß genau, was wir tun werden. Wir nehmen Mama nach Hause und wir nennen sie Mama. Und wir werden Mama machen, um das herauszufinden. Glücklich lebt Sheila's Mutter, Mama Margaret, nahe. Und so rutscht sie in der Mitte der Nacht, um den Kindern zu helfen.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
And when she gets there, she finds Sheila curled up on the floor in the fetal position. And that's when her son looks at Grandma Margaret and says, Grandma, I'm pretty sure Mom killed Kelly. Und so ist Margaret so, okay, wir rufen 911.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Sie sagt dem Operator auf diesem 911-Ruf, ich denke, es gab einen Art von Mord. Meine Tochter hat einen nervösen Ausbruch und sie hat jemanden getötet. Oh, okay. Also rufen die Polizei über zu Sheila's Kondo. Und jetzt, an diesem Punkt, sagt sie über und über, Not just that she had a bad dream, but that she thinks maybe she hurt Kelly. So Sheila's having a nervous breakdown.
Murder With My Husband
254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
And in this breakdown, she's saying, I think I hurt her. I think I hurt Kelly. Like, how else would I have known? How else would I have had this dream?
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
So they get the name out of Sheila and they realize obviously it matches the missing persons report that they had just received the night before. And that is for Kelly Brennan. So within the hour, Lisa putting two and two together and they are flooding the area of Mark's Landing.
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254. The Woman Who Dreamed a Murder
Und für irgendeinen Grund fühlen sie sich nicht an Kelly's Körper zu befinden, den die Jungs sahen, nur durch das Suchen auf dem Fuß. Also ich vermute, sie haben Sheila's Söhne nicht zurück mit ihnen zur Szene gebracht, um genau zu zeigen, wo das Körper war. Instead, they deploy a police helicopter. They do an overhead search of the area and that's when they make it out.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Er antwortet den Polizisten während dieser Konversation, dass die Nacht vorher Jodie tatsächlich bei ihm im Apartment war. Earlier that month he had thrown her a party for her 27th birthday and he had also filmed the gathering. And according to John, last night he had invited Jodie over so they could watch the video of her party that he had made.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
So she had come over, they had watched the tape and then she headed back to her own place. In other words, John is basically telling officers that he's actually one of the last people who could have seen Jodie alive. But that was the night before her disappearance. Hours before her call with Amy in the early morning hours where she seemed fine.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
So either way, the police called John in for a number of interrogations and during his sessions he admitted that he had called Jodi's office on the morning of her disappearance to see if she'd made it in. And he made this call before she was reported missing, meaning sometime before 7 a.m.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
John, der vielleicht einer der letzten Menschen, die sie gesehen haben, hat Jodie's Arbeit angerufen, um zu sehen, ob sie da war, obwohl niemand wirklich wusste, dass sie da war. Wiederum gab es keinen bestimmten Bedarf, dass John so früh mit Jodie gesprochen hat, als wäre sie beschäftigt gewesen, ihren Job zu machen. Es ist also alles nur ein bisschen seltsam.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Aber als John einen Lüftetest verabschiedet hat, hat er es verabschiedet. Nun, wir wissen natürlich, dass Polygraph-Tests nicht anstrengend sind und es ist möglich, selbst wenn du lüftest, zu verabschieden. Aber ehrlich gesagt, hatte die Polizei keine harte Beweise gegen John.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
But you don't get to listen to Garrett tell a story now, do you?
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In der Tat, als sie Jodie's Diary gefunden haben, haben sie es gelesen und gelernt, dass Jodie tatsächlich John liebte und ihn als Freund vertraut hatte. Sie gab nie eine Beweise darauf, dass sie sich um ihn ungeheuer fühlte oder für ihn furchtbar war. Und er hatte keine Geschichte davon, dass er in einem bedrohlichen Weg zu Jodie reagierte.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
In Wahrheit, von der Art und Weise, wie sie es geschrieben hat, scheint sie wirklich zu genuinen zu haben, die Zeit, die sie zusammen verbracht haben, insbesondere die Geburtstagsparty, die er für sie gelegt hat.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
So, yes, he's inserting himself into the investigation, he's doing some odd things, but police didn't have any evidence against John, beyond the fact that he'd called her work and shown up at her apartment. It was odd, but not that odd for a close friend. They certainly couldn't arrest him or name him as a suspect, so the police classified John as a person of interest and moved on.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
The good news was that the officers had plenty of other people to investigate in this case. After all, Jodi was locally famous. She appeared on the news and virtually everyone who owned a television in that area probably knew who Jodi was. Was bedeutet, dass, wie viele Celebriten, Jodie manchmal unerwartete Aufmerksamkeit von ihren Fans bekam.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Basierend auf ein paar Kommentare, die sie ihren Freunden vor ihrer Verlustung gemacht hat, hat sie auch zumindest einen Stalker. Die Polizei lernt, dass sie am 8. Oktober 1994, etwa sechs Monate vor ihrer Verlust, Jodi zu den Polizisten gegangen ist und sie für ihre Hilfe gefragt hat. An diesem Tag hat sie einen weißen Pickup-Truck gesehen, der sie umgekehrt hat.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like anything really came of that report. There's no record of the investigators tracking down the truck driver or making an arrest. And Jody also never filed any follow up complaints. So maybe this was a one off incident and not a big deal. Except the next spring in March. Jodi hat zu einigen Freunden erwähnt, dass sie sich für Selbstschutzklassen eingeladen hat.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Sie sagte, es war, weil sie fühlte, als ob sie in ihrer Karriere etwas zusätzliches Schutz benötigt hätte, was nicht unbedingt normal ist. Und dann kam der größte, zerstörerische Detail von nur einem Tag vor ihrer Verschmutzung. Police learn on June 26, Jodi had been playing golf with some friends.
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And as they were making their way through the course, she mentioned to two of her companions that she had changed her phone number recently. Apparently, she was getting a lot of unwanted calls on her old number. In Jodis own words, these calls were nasty and naughty.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
She couldn't get the caller to leave her alone, so in the end she had taken the only course she could, and now she had a whole new phone number. Aber schade ist, dass niemand wusste, wer hinter all dem war, wer sie möglicherweise im weißen Fahrzeug folgte, sie anrufte und sie fühlte, als ob sie Selbstverdienung lernen musste. Jodys Freunde wussten nicht, ob es nur eine Person war.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Vielleicht war es ein Pranker, jemand anderes, der sie in einem Fahrzeug folgte, und ein anderer Faktor, der sie wollte, diese Kurse zu nehmen. Und es ist auch wert zu erwähnen, dass wenn Jodie einen oder mehr Stalker hatte, war es unmöglich, ihre Motive zu wissen. Es könnte ein Fan gewesen sein, der mit ihr besessen war, nachdem sie sie auf TV gesehen hat.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Es könnte jemand aus ihrer eigenen Leben oder sozialen Zirkel gewesen sein. Oder eine furchtbare Ex. Oder jemand, der für sie romantische Gefühle hatte und sie zu einem Extrem nahm. Es könnte auch jemand sein, der Jodie hasste, weil sie das gemacht hat. Erinnere dich, Jodie war ein Reporter. Das wird nicht das erste Mal sein, dass wir einen Reporter von Dingen, die sie reportieren, schmerzen.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Eine große Teil von Jodies Arbeit war es, kraftvolle Menschen zu untersuchen und unbedeutende Wahrheiten in die Licht zu bringen. So maybe one of the stories she was working on had gotten her too close to someone who was dangerous. Really, I mean, police are looking at this case and thinking, geez, the possibilities for motive are endless.
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Alright you guys, so before we get into today's episode, it's actually a little different and a little special, so let me explain. As you guys know, a while ago I started a solo show that is now called Into the Dark. It is a true crime show that every once in a while ventures into ghosts, UFOs, spooky stories, all things dark and mystery. Again, it is majority true crime.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
So they were basically at square one in terms of figuring out who had been making Jodi feel uneasy and frightened and who had done this. So they began by looking at the people who were close to her, as in physically close to her. People who lived or worked near the areas where she spent a lot of her time.
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And as it turned out, there were two people who lived near her apartment who had previous records as sex offenders. Einer dieser Männer war ein Serienrapper, der nur zwei Blöcke entfernt von Jodie lebte. Und der andere Mann lebte auch nahe und er hatte auch von Sexkriegen verurteilt. Except when the police questioned both of these men, they both insisted they were innocent.
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And a lot like what had happened with John, there was no hard evidence to show that either of these men had anything to do with Jodi's disappearance. They did have a history of violent crimes for sure, but that didn't automatically mean that they could be blamed for every disappearance that ever happened in Mason City. So that was probably the biggest issue with Jodie's case.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
There were a lot of theories floating around, but not much evidence to support any of them. She might have been kidnapped by a friend, a stalker, a sex offender, or honestly anyone else. The police could not rule anybody out. And they also didn't have any clear leads to follow. So as time went on, Jodie's case went cold.
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It seemed almost impossible that this very recognizable celebrity could just vanish without a trace. And yet, to all appearances, that is exactly what Jodi did. Six years go by. And in 2001, with no breaks or arrests... Seine Familie hat Jodie legal verurteilt. Natürlich war das nicht eine einfache Entscheidung für sie zu machen. Und natürlich hofften sie noch, dass Jodie irgendwo lebendig war.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Aber nach so lange ist es schwierig, optimistisch zu bleiben. Und außerdem gab es bestimmte legale Dinge, die sie mit ihren Assetten und Bankkonten zu tun hatten. In order to settle her affairs, her family had no choice but to declare her dead and begin the difficult process of grieving and trying to move on.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Dann, zwei Jahre später, hat ein Grupp von Journalisten ein Website geöffnet, das heißt findjodie.com. Das ist nur mehr Erfolg in diesem Fall. Interessant ist, dass die Leute, die dieses Website geschaffen haben, nicht Jodie's Freunde oder Familienmitglieder waren. Sie hatten Jodie noch nie gesehen, bevor sie verschwunden ist. Sie waren Journalisten, genau wie sie.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Einige von ihnen hatten Jodys Fall auf ihren eigenen Netzwerken beschlossen. Danach konnten sie ihre Geschichte einfach nicht aus den Händen bringen. Ich meine, einer von ihnen ist plötzlich verschwunden. Sie haben also zusammengekommen. Sie wollten sie gefunden haben und sie wollten auch, dass sie Gerechtigkeit erhalten. Auf diesem Website haben sie Newsartikel und Updates veröffentlicht.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Sie haben Videos und Fotos von Jodi veröffentlicht, damit niemand ihre Gesichter vergessen würde. Sie haben ihre Namen lebendig gehalten. Und sie haben Donationen gekauft, damit sie für sie und für andere Missing People weiterhelfen können. Im Jahr 2010 haben sie ihren Website geöffnet und einen Non-Profit geformt, um ihre langfristigen Arbeit zu finanzieren.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Und wie es aussah, war auch das generelle Publikum ehrt, zu sehen, was sie teilen mussten. The website was very popular and at its peak it was getting hundreds of visitors a day. Now that might not sound like a lot, but keep in mind that the early 2000s were still a time where there were fewer websites and fewer people visiting them.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
But the Find Jodi page was one of the best resources for information about this case. There were no true crime podcasts or true crime TikTok back then. Any time the police thought that they'd made a new break, findjodie.com was there to report on it. For example, they covered the headlines when the police subpoenaed John Van Sise, the friend who had made the birthday video.
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I love Into the Dark and it truly is my little baby. And I am going to beg you right now, please go follow Into the Dark. Please go turn on automatic downloads. Please subscribe, do whatever. Please, please, please help me grow Into the Dark and support the show. I know you guys are awesome. I know I can always turn to you. So please, Thank you so much for doing that right now.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
This subpoena actually happened in 2017, meaning the police had reopened Jodie's case and were probably reinvestigating early persons of interest. Yes, 2017, meaning it had been 22 years since Jody's disappearance. They were still searching for leads.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Now, the subpoena required John to give the police his fingerprints and palm print and to share some GPS information on two different vehicles he used to own. Unfortunately, the investigators never announced what they learned from the prints or the GPS data, if anything, and they didn't arrest John or reclassify him from a person of interest to a suspect.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
So as near as we can tell, nothing really came of this new break in 2017. And then afterward, the case would go cold again for another seven years. Which takes us to the latest set of developments in Jodi's case, which actually all happened in the fall and winter of 2024. Okay, so it starts in mid-October, when someone made a tip to the police saying,
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271. The Missing News Anchor
unfortunately the officials haven't released the tipsters identity and we don't know exactly what the person said either i think it's safe to say that investigators in this case are keeping things closed down we do know though that the information on this tip led the investigators to a town called Winstead, Minnesota. Now, Winstead is a community of about 2,200 people.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Anywhere else it would count as a small town, but in rural Midwest it was considered a small city. It was also just about a half hour outside of Minneapolis. And it was 130 miles north of Mason City, where Jody disappeared in those early morning hours.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
So it wasn't very close to her apartment, but for whatever reason, the police still thought that the information on this tip that led them to this city was worth searching. So in November, police descended on an empty field. An apartment was under construction not too far away, but the land the police were searching was part of a public city owned park.
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Now, we don't know exactly what they were looking for, if they expected to find a body or a murder weapon or a clue. But I do know that after the search was over, the police confirmed that they had failed to recover any human remains. There were some animal bones, but that was to be expected in a rural, mostly empty park.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
If they found anything else that was of interest in this recent search, they haven't disclosed that publicly. However, it does sound like the officials might be getting closer to learning what happened to Jodi. There's definitely things going on behind the scenes that we do not know about. And I'm basing that assumption in part on a statement from a man named Steve Ridge.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Steve is a private detective who has been working on Jody's case for a long time. And according to him, when he began his investigation, he had a huge list of potential suspects. It included every person he could think of who might have had the means, motive and opportunity to hurt Jody back in the 90s. Dann hat Steve die Leute aus dieser Liste eins nach dem anderen entfernt.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Er hat Alibis gecheckt, er hat Beweise gesammelt, ihre Motive bestätigt und so weiter. Am 16. November 2024 hatte Steve nur vier Namen auf dieser Liste, die er gemacht hatte. Und er war sehr sicher, dass einer dieser vier Leute Jodie's Killer war. He just needed a bit more evidence before he could say for sure what person was responsible.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
It was tantalizing being so close to finally having an answer. Now in an interview, Steve said that while investigating Jodie's death, He uncovered what he believes to be that Jodie was murdered by someone who had romantic feelings for her. That was his thought. And the killer was jealous because she had been seeing someone new right before she went missing.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
And that being said, this week we are going to drop one of my favorite Into the Dark episodes. Don't worry, it is still a true crime case and it is one that genuinely blew the Into the Dark listeners away. So we thought Murder with My Husband needed to hear it.
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So according to Steve, on June 17th, 1995, which is about a week and a half before her disappearance, Jodi hatte eine Bar. Es war ein Sonntagabend und die Wochenende-Kreise war alles da. Bevor die Nacht vorbei war, schlug Jodi eine Gespräche mit einem Mann auf. Es gab einen sofortigen Sprech und eine instantane Begegnung. In den nächsten zehn Tagen gingen sie auf weniger als fünf Dates.
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Das ist, was Steve lernt. Yes, you heard that right. They went on five dates in ten days. Mini-Golf, dinners out. And she even went over to his place at least one time. They also talked on the phone every single day. Steve says Jodi was falling for this guy. Interestingly, she didn't tell many of her friends about her new man. My guess is that the relationship was just still too new.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
She had known him less than two weeks. But she did mention him to one or two people and those people actually told the police about the new boyfriend when Jodie vanished.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
So while Steve's looking into this and he uncovers this information that police know about, he thinks that there's a possibility that word made it back to one of Jodie's male friends or companions that she was seeing someone new and possibly that guy became violently possessive.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Dieser Mann hätte Jodie sehr gut getötet, als er bemerkte, dass sie sich nicht so fühlte, wie er sie fühlte, wie er sie fühlte. In Steve's Meinung, der Mörder hat Jodie wahrscheinlich sehr nahe zu dem Wohnzimmer, wo sie lebte, nicht hunderten Meilen entfernt in Minnesota, sondern eigentlich irgendwo in einer 26-Meilen-Radius.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Das würde also bedeuten, dass der Tipp, den die Polizei früher gesucht hat, nicht mit Steve's Theorie zusammenhängt. Now Steve never said who he suspected this person was, who was so obsessed with Jodi that he might have been willing to kill her. However, the PI did make an interesting comment in a recent interview with News Nation.
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Steve on this news station said he thought the killer, even if he was caught... Ja, genau. He was in his late 60s. He was reportedly suffering from Alzheimer's disease, which would have made it impossible for him to ever go on trial if he was accused of a serious crime.
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So people start putting two and two together and given Steve's comments about the killer probably never getting a conviction and the fact that Steve thinks it was a male friend who was close to Jodi, it's possible that dass John Steve's Top Suspect war. Nun, das ist nicht sicher. Das ist nur das, was die Leute betrachtet haben.
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Und wenn das der Fall war, kann ich jetzt mit Sicherheit sagen, dass John niemals Gerechtigkeit für Jodie's Verlust, wenn er involviert war, weil er am 6. Dezember 2024 von natürlichen Gründen gestorben ist. His family kept the news quiet for a few weeks. They never released an obituary. And now we will never know what he knew, if anything, about what happened to Jody.
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Now, I know people just put two and two together, thinking that John was the guy that Steve was talking about. But there is another possibility out there. Es gibt einen anderen Interessenten, der nicht verurteilt werden konnte, weil er auch bereits tot ist. Dieser Name ist Christopher Rivack und er könnte ein Serialkiller sein.
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Aber es ist schwer zu sagen, weil es viele Angelegenheiten gibt über seine Geschichte, die es unmöglich ist, zu bestätigen. Aber hier ist, was wir wissen. 1995 lebte Christophers Ex-Wife in der Masons-City. Das ist die gleiche Stadt, in der Jodie das selbe Jahr verletzt wurde.
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Obviously, this is not a super strong connection, but if Christopher was in contact with his ex and visiting her in Mason City, he might have seen Jodie on the news or even ran into her on the street. More importantly, over 10 years later in 2006, a 21-year-old woman named Deidre Harm went missing in Wisconsin. And the circumstances of her disappearance were eerily similar to Jodie's.
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Deidre war 21 Jahre alt, hat Bars mit einigen Freunden gespielt und dann ist sie ohne Fortschritt verschwunden. Monate später wurde ihr Körper gefunden und es war klar, dass sie getötet wurde. Und dann, ein Jahr später, 2007, ging Renee Williams auch miss, und dieses Mal, nachdem sie sich als Bartender in einem Missouri-Town verlassen hat.
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Was Christopher, okay, this is the same Christopher, whose wife lived in Mason City and he could have been visiting her, putting him in proximity to Jodie. And even more alarmingly, Christopher's wife came forward not too long after this and said that Christopher had confessed to her and he allegedly told her point blank that he had killed Renee.
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So in this again completely separate investigation, this was enough for the police to arrest him and put him in jail. But before his case could go to trial, Christopher took his own life and any information he might have had died with him. So that means to this day, they can never be sure if he really murdered Renee. It seems likely, but maybe he lied when he confessed to his wife.
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I mean, he was at the bar where Renee was before she died. And then his wife also came forward and said he did it. Aber wir werden es nicht wissen. Wir werden auch nie wissen, ob er etwas mit Diedras Mord oder Jodies Verlust zu tun hatte. Das ist nur eine Verbindung, die Leute gemacht haben.
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Aber sehr neulich, im Dezember 2024, hat ein Podcast namens Forgotten Wisconsin Cold Cases diese Theorie präsentiert, dass Christopher alle drei Frauen getötet hat. Und wenn er verantwortlich für diese drei Mörder war, dann hätte er auch mehr verletzt. It was impossible to say how many victims he may have had. They are just kind of assuming that Christopher was a serial killer.
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Either way, the police took those allegations very seriously and they opened up an investigation right away. And as of this recording, we are still waiting to hear the outcome and if there is anything stronger to link Christopher to Jodi. Jodie's case is still open and unsolved and the police are willing to explore almost any possibility.
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Alright, you guys. We love you. Thank you for the support. This case is truly gonna blow your mind, so let's get into it. Du hörst einen Ono Media Podcast. Hey, alle. Willkommen zurück auf dem Into the Dark Podcast. Ich bin euer Host, Peyton Moreland. Ich bin so, so glücklich, dass ihr hier hört. Danke für euren fortschrittlichen Unterstützung, Leute.
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So I'll end today's episode by saying that if you know anything about Jodie's disappearance, officials are still accepting tips. And I'll also say the police suspect that Christopher might have had more victims, including people who could have survived his attacks. So if you or someone you know escaped an attempted abduction in the Midwest in the 90s or 2000s, again, please let the police know.
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The Mason City Police Department can be reached at 641-421-3000. And the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation is at 515-421-3000. And hopefully all of these efforts will pay off soon. And that is the unsolved case of Jodi, who's in truth. Thank you so much for watching or listening today. And I will see you next time as we dive further into the dark together. Goodbye.
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Es bedeutet mehr, als ihr jemals wissen werdet. Ich gehe direkt in meine 10 Sekunden. Right now. Okay, if you know me at all, you know that I really only watch crime shows on TV. I've never really been a big reality TV person or series show. Honestly, I just love true crime and crime on TV. CSI Las Vegas is my favorite. I've watched it too many times to count. I love Law & Order SVU.
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I love Criminal Minds. I love CSI Miami. And I was thinking about Criminal Minds the other day because I've kind of been on Criminal Minds TikTok and I've watched it multiple times through. But you need to let me know. There's this phenomenon in Criminal Minds where you have Derek Morgan, who is Just the idealistic, perfect guy, right? Like that's his character in the show is he is this hunk.
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He's a hottie. He's so just everything you'd want. But then there's just this huge group of criminal minds watchers who are Team Reed. Okay, wir lieben Spencer Reed und wir, er ist unser Freund in der Show. Und es ist so lustig, weil in der Show, äh, sie machen seinen Charakter das Gegenteil von Morgan.
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Und, ähm, er ist nerdig, er ist dünn, er kann keine Waffe schießen, du weißt, wie all diese Dinge, aber es gibt all diese Mädchen, die ihn lieben. Und ich möchte, dass du mir in den Kommentaren sagst, wenn du Kriminelle Glauben hörst, bist du ein Morgan oder Reed Stan? Let me know. I will tell you right now, I am a bigger fan of Reed, but I obviously love Morgan, but I am a Reed girl. Okay, I am.
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But yeah, I just thought that was a funny discourse that I've been seeing going around and I just wanted to know what you guys thought. Alright, jumping into the episode, unsolved cases are always frustrating. It's difficult to get invested in someone's story and to want to learn what happened to them, only to be left with more questions than answers once the investigation is all said and done.
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Well, I am going to spoil today's case right now. It is an unsolved disappearance. But you're going to want to tune in, because in the past few months, the police have actually made some huge breaks in this case. And my hope is that before too long, we can change the narrative. We can find a solution and get closure and finally see this case get solved.
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So, let's go back to the 1990s, when an ambitious young reporter was working her dream job. Her name was Jodi Husentruth, and she was working for a television news station in Mason City, Iowa. It was called KIMT. Und Mason City in Iowa war eine dezent-geheizte mittelwestliche Stadt in den 90er-Jahren. Es hatte eine Population von nur unter 30.000 Leuten.
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Das bedeutet, Jodie's Job war eine gute Chance, einen großen Publikum zu erreichen und einen Namen für sich selbst zu machen. Sie war noch jung und früh in ihrer Karriere. Sie war nur in ihren 20er-Jahren. Jodie wusste, dass sie in den kommenden Jahren und Jahrzehnten viel Potenzial hat, noch weiter zu gehen. Aber sie müsste sich drücken.
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Jedes Mal, wenn Jodie auf der Kamera stand, fragte sie die Crew, ein Recording ihrer Leistung zu machen. Now, in the early 90s, that was much harder to do than it is today. She had to talk to the people working in the recording booth who were already busy filming, editing and broadcasting everything live.
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And she'd ask them to do her the favor of making her a tape while they were also focused on making sure everything looked right. The good news was, though, that her co-workers in the booth were willing to help. And she collected dozens of tapes over the years. Beginnend mit ihrer ersten Appearance auf ihrem College Student Run Channel bis zu ihrem Zeitraum mit KIMT.
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Und der Grund, warum sie das tut, ist ehrlich gesagt wie ein Spielfilm. Sie würde jede Tape nach Hause nehmen und dann es anschauen. Und sie würde eine Note machen, jedes Mal, wenn sie etwas verletzt hat oder vielleicht nicht perfekt eine Liste geliefert hat. Jeden Moment, als ihr Lächeln verlief oder wenn ihr Volumen etwas laut oder ruhig war. She was studying her film to get better.
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She was a perfectionist. She kept track of everything so she could improve on areas where she could. And then the next day she would show up to work resolved to do better than she had the day before. Jedes Broadcast, in ihren Augen, war eine Chance, Dinge aus dem Park auszulösen. Und ehrlich gesagt, hat all diese Arbeit gekostet. 1995 war Jodie 27 Jahre alt und stammte regelmäßig im Fernsehen.
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Sie war ziemlich bekannt in der Masons-City und hat sich ehrlich gesagt ein bisschen als lokale Feindin geworden. Nun, da sie so ein arbeitsloser Arbeiter war, ist es sicher zu sagen, dass es für Jodie aus Charakter war, immer zu spät zu arbeiten oder einen Schiff auszulösen. Aber das ist genau das, was am 27.06.1995 passiert ist.
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Und es wird sehr offensichtlich sein, wenn sie nicht zur Arbeit kommt, weil sie nicht im Fernsehen sein wird. Also, an diesem Tag im Jahr 1995 musste sie um 3.30 Uhr einsteigen. Ich weiß, das ist sehr früh, aber Jodi war Teil des Morgen-News-Teams. Sie musste um 3.30 Uhr da sein, um genug Zeit zu haben, um die Broadcasts live zu beginnen, um 6 Uhr. So it was a problem for her to not be in on time.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Morland.
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And that day, there was no sign of her when her shift began. Jodi's producer, a woman named Amy Koons, thought it was possible that Jodi might just be running late. It was too early for her to hit traffic, but maybe something else had held her up. Except by 4 a.m., Jodi still hadn't made it into the station. And she was now a half an hour late to her shift.
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So that is when Amy, the producer, called Jodi to see what was going on. And after a few rings, Jodi answers her home telephone. As it turned out, she had just overslept and Amy, the producer, had woken her up. So Jodie on the phone is like, no, no, no, I just overslept. I'm not in any kind of trouble or anything. Nothing bad has happened.
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And nothing about Jodie's tone of voice made Amy think she was lying. In fact, she sounded groggy like the phone call had indeed woken her up. Amy erklärte, dass sie rausgekommen war, weil es bereits 4 Uhr war. Jodie war zu spät und Jodie versprach, dass sie so schnell wie möglich auf die Straße gehen würde. Ich werde sofort im Büro sein. Und dann hingen sie auf.
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Amy wusste, dass Jodie nur einen 5-Minuten-Dreh von der TV-Station lebte, also sollte es ihr nicht sehr lange dauern, um sie reinzunehmen. Even if you assume that Jodi needed some time to get up, get dressed, brush her teeth and do her hair and makeup, she still should have gotten there pretty quickly. But after this phone call, a full hour passes and Jodi still doesn't show up.
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By 5 a.m., Amy, the producer, calls again to ask Jodi what is going on. I mean, someone has to go on air that morning. And this time... Nobody answers at Jodi's home. So the clock was ticking and Jodi was supposed to be live on air at six. There was no sign of her and Amy knew that the station couldn't wait much longer. It's like they say, the show must go on.
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271. The Missing News Anchor
By now, it had been three hours since Amy had supposedly woken Jodie up on the phone that morning. And so Amy is extremely worried at this point. It was one thing for Jodie to sleep in, but it was completely out of character for her to answer the phone, say she's coming in, and then not show up and miss an entire broadcast. She had never blown off her work like this before.
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She cared too much about her job. And with Jodie still not answering the phone, Amy entscheidet, es ist Zeit, 9-1-1 zu rufen, um die Polizei zu fragen, um nach Jodys Wohnung zu gehen und einen Wohlfahrtscheck zu machen, um zu sehen, ob sie in Ordnung ist. Sobald Amy den Wohlfahrtscheck beantragt hat, rufen die Bewerber nach Jodys Wohnzimmer.
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Bevor sie sogar die Chance hatten, in die Wohnung zu kommen, sahen sie etwas sehr interessantes. Jodie's car was parked out front and there were marks on the pavement. It kind of looked like someone had dragged something heavy across the ground. And on top of that, a bunch of Jodie's personal possessions were scattered all around her parking spot.
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There were earrings, a blow dryer, a pair of red high-heeled shoes that were just strewn across the ground. Untertitelung. BR 2018 The police also found a partial palm print on the handle of the car, like someone had tried to open the door. Maybe it was Jodi, or maybe it was someone else who had tried to get inside that morning.
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They haven't ever publicly confirmed whether they identified who the palm print belonged to. And interestingly, there was also a hair at the scene, but the police haven't said whether they know whose hair it was either. So they have evidence that they still haven't publicly identified. But here's what I do know.
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The officers noticed this, and obviously we have the context that she was rushing to work. So these personal items in the parking lot aren't actually that mysterious. It's most likely that Jodi woke up, was in a rush, grabbed a bunch of her things that she was going to need at the station to get ready for work. And something happened while she was trying to get into her car.
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So when the officers went into Jodi's apartment, everything there seemed neat and tidy. Not like the parking spot. Her apartment looked exactly how it was supposed to. With one exception. In her bathroom, the toilet seat was up. Which... If you live with a man or have a husband, that probably means that a man was the last person to use it.
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Now, since Jodi didn't have any male roommates, this suggested that maybe someone else had been over the night before or early that morning. But the investigators obviously don't know who. Darüber hinaus gab es keine Zeichen eines verschlossenen Einbruchs oder einer Schwierigkeit im Hintergrund.
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Also, nach dem Zustand der Parkplätze, war ihre Theorie, dass Jodi recht schnell ihren Platz verlassen hat, nachdem Amy sie angerufen hat, aber sie war auf ihrer eigenen Art und Weise verlassen. Sie wurde nicht von ihrem Wohnzimmer abgedrückt. Sie hat den Weg bis aus der Tür gemacht und war bereit, ihr Auto zu öffnen, als jemand sie besiegt und sie entfernt hat.
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Also ist die Krimiszene nicht unbedingt im Hintergrund von Jodis Wohnzimmer. Now while the police were reviewing the scene and gathering evidence, a man walked right up to the detectives and started talking to them. Now this obviously struck the officers as weird. There was no reason for him to be there. It's not like there's an obvious crime scene happening.
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And he just seemed a bit too comfortable inserting himself into this investigation progress. So, this man comes up and they learn that the man's name was John Van Sise and he was actually one of Jody's friends. This was in spite of the fact that he was in his late 40s, so nearly twice Jody's age.
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Apparently, they actually got along great and John told the police that the two of them went on boating trips together pretty frequently. Er sitzt hier, spricht mit den Polizisten, sagt, dass er Freunde ist, was ziemlich seltsam ist, dass er einfach aufsteht, wenn sie misst. Aber ich verabschiede mich.
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I said to Garrett, I said, wanna see what I got? And cause when my arms are down, it looks like just another black sweatshirt. And he's like, oh, another black sweatshirt. Exactly what you need. I was like, no, just wait for it.
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And if you remember, she went to get that doll before her friend Kathy left and she was alone with Johnny. So they also had a description of the kidnapper because of Kathy. Kathy told police the man that her friend was last seen with was blonde and went by the name Johnny. So naturally they zeroed in on suspects who fit that description.
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So as early as the next day, word had gotten around that 18 year old Johnny Tessier, this outcast in the community, war blond und sein Name war John und er ging von Johnny. Also sprach die Polizei tatsächlich zu seiner Mutter Eileen am 4. Dezember, am nächsten Tag. Und sie sagen, hey, wir sprechen mit jemandem, der blond ist und diese Beschreibung passt. Wir kennen deinen Sohn.
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Wo war er letzte Nacht? Und Eileen war so, er war zu Hause. Das ist offensichtlich eine Lüge.
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Because he was going around to those offices. Her other kids had been there, but John hadn't been there. In fact, his half siblings didn't see him all that night or the following day. Some of Eileen's daughters actually overheard their mother talking to police and they knew she was lying. And they actually tried to tell police, hey, we need to talk to you.
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But the cops don't even give them a chance. They never end up talking to the other kids. They just took Eileen's word for it that her 18-year-old son had an alibi and they moved on to the next blonde.
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This might not have been a result of negligence so much as a loss of jurisdiction because that same day, December 4th, 1957, the FBI moved in on the investigation. 29 federal agents showed up overnight and took over the investigation and they asked police for a list of suspects. Und in einer Stadt, in der jeder alle wusste, hatten die Polizisten ihre eigenen Ideen darüber, wer das gemacht hätte.
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Also geben die FBI eine Liste der bekanntesten sexuellen Verbrechen in diesem Bereich. Dies betrifft Homosexuelle, weil es 1957 ist. It also included Peeping Toms, Child Molesters. Some of them were only known by nicknames. So there's a lot of people on this list.
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But a few days later, they actually get a tip from an anonymous person telling them to check out John Tresner in the neighborhood for the case. So the feds look into it and they found that John Tresner doesn't exist. But they do find... John Tessier, der Kathy's Description of the Kidnapper passt. So the FBI now are also on to 18 year old John in a completely different way.
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Egal wie, sie fragen John, ob er kommen kann und einen Polygraph-Test nehmen kann. Und John stimmt. Also zwei Tage später, am 10. Dezember, war John aufgerufen und gefragt. Und während des Interviews fragten Agents John, ob er jemals mit Kindern Sex hatte. Und er sagte, ja, ein bisschen. Warte, was? Er hat gesagt, dass er sich mit einer jüngeren Mädchen in der Vergangenheit engagiert hat.
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Aber das war vor Jahren und er ist jetzt 18 und er ist ausgewachsen.
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He also lets them know, listen, I didn't even know Maria. I really only met her once, four years ago. He helped her cross the street. They kind of lived in the same neighborhood. And he's like, I've never spoke to her again. I was enlisting in the military that night. And the polygraph showed he was telling the truth. So between the test and his alibi, the FBI are like, hey, he's cleared.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
Once again, he's cleared. Just like the local police, they move on. Und am nächsten Tag, am 11. Dezember 1957, ging John nach Hause, um tatsächlich in die Air Force einzugehen. Also war er begeistert, sich weiterzumachen. Und als Weihnachten kam, verpackte Marias Familie Gifte für sie und setzte sie unter den Baum. Gifte, die sie bereits gekauft hatten.
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Aber Maria war nicht zu Hause, um sie zu öffnen. Die Weihnachten kamen und gingen. Und mit dem Anfang des neuen Jahres sah es aus, als gäbe es wenig zu hoffen. Months went by, no new leads, and then the trail goes completely cold. Until one day in April 1958, in a wooded area 200 miles north of Sycamore, two hikers found a body.
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Right. The remains they found that morning, April 28th, 1958, were half buried under a fallen tree. Again, this was 200 miles away from Sycamore. They were so decomposed that they weren't obviously human, but the hikers were concerned enough to contact the local police, and a coroner soon determined that the remains were human and belonged to a little girl.
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Now, dots are connected and Maria's parents, Mike and Francis, were shown a scrap of clothing. It was found on the body and they identified it as the shirt that Maria was last seen wearing. So soon the body's ID was confirmed through dental records. And it was the riddle of worst fear. It was Maria. So now, even though they knew that Maria was dead, there was still a lot of unanswered questions.
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How did her body get 200 miles away from home? Who had brought her there? How did she die? Sadly, investigators failed to provide any answers. They didn't take photos at the crime scene.
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Nor did they determine an exact cause of death. The autopsy just said suspected foul play.
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I don't know if it's because they just didn't have enough information or they didn't even know if the bones were human at the time. And if this wasn't upsetting enough, the FBI had bowed out of the investigation at this point. Since Maria's body had been found within the state, the case no longer fell under their jurisdiction.
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So they turned it back over to the Illinois State Police, who after two years of going over the same leads or lack thereof, moved it into cold cases once again. So by the time Maria's body had been found, John was starting his new life. He served several years in the Air Force and then transferred to the Army.
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Presumably that spot on his lung wasn't such a big deal when the US finally needed soldiers for Vietnam. So John went on to fight in the Vietnam War. He was awarded three bronze stars for exceptional bravery in a combat zone. He was honorably discharged. He got married. He had two kids. He then attended Law Enforcement Academy in King County, Washington.
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And by the time he graduated in 1974 at the age of 35, John was basically the hero he always wanted to be. But to those who knew him, there were signs that he was not the noble soldier he pretended to be on the outside. Johns first marriage ended when he cheated on his wife. Once he became a police officer, he used his badge to pick up multiple women.
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For example, he once arrested a woman for drunk driving and then talked her into moving in with him. He also arrested a sex worker and then took her to a holiday party, like after he arrested her. And after several incidents like this, John was reprimanded by the chief of police in Milton, Washington.
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So he poses as this... So he's always been a pedophile. Er baut ihr Kleid, er lehrt ihr, wie man Make-up anzieht, er macht sicher, dass sie zur Schule geht. Aber dann, eine Nacht nachdem sie mit ihm nur ein paar Wochen geblieben war, wuchs Michelle auf dem Heidebett in Johns Wohnzimmer, um ihn zu finden, um oralen Sex auf sie zu machen. Sie ist 15. Er ist 42.
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Sie war so gefreut, sie fiel einfach. Aber am nächsten Tag erzählte sie einem Freund, was ihr passiert ist. Und der Freund sagte einem Schulvorsitzenden. Und der Vorsitzende alertierte die Polizei in einer anderen Stadt. Und das ledigte zu einer Investigation, in der John schließlich mit statutierter Rape verurteilt wurde. Jetzt erinnere dich. 25 Jahre früher. John hatte zu der FBI eingeladen.
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Right after Maria went missing. That he had engaged in sexual activity with children. But apparently no one now in Washington knew about this confession, knew that he had been somewhat of a suspect back then.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
So John was actually allowed to plead guilty to a lesser charge of communication with a minor for immoral purposes.
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He wasn't fired from the police department. He was asked to resign, which meant he was free to keep on reinventing himself. So he leaves the police department. He starts pursuing a business in photography. He begins taking photos of... Kinder, junge, ausreichende Modelle. Und dann im Jahr 1983 verheiratet er einen von ihnen. Eine Frau namens Denise Trexler.
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Denise kam aus einer verletzten Beziehung. Er verweigerte sich, ihr Helfer zu sein, wieder einmal. Aber nachdem sie verheiratet waren, wurde er emotional verletzter und kontrollierend. Er hat nicht nur Denise Kleidung gekauft, er hat ihr erzählt, was sie tragen soll. Er hat ihr nicht nur die Make-up-Tutorials gezeigt, er hat sie in einer bestimmten Weise gemacht. Und Denise hat mit ihm geblieben.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
Und während dieser Zeit hat sie zumindest zwei Dinge beobachtet, die sie in den nächsten Jahren verleugnen würden. Einer war an einem Tag, als Johns Tochter aus seinem ersten Verheirat zu besuchen kam. Sie war nur zwölf Jahre alt. Oh nein. Und Denise hat John mit ihr einen Morgen in der Küche gefunden. Und er hatte eine Banane. Ja, okay.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
Der zweite Angriff war noch mehr bedrohlich. Eines Tages suchte Denise etwas in Johns Tisch und sie fühlte einen Draht fangen, also öffnete sie es. Und sie fand etwas, das auf dem Boden seines Drahts in seinem Büro verkleidet war. Und es war ein Foto, das John von seiner Tochter genommen hatte. Sie war nackt.
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Oh mein Gott. Kinderpornografie seines eigenen Kindes.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
So Denise and John break up in 1989. And unfortunately, she didn't report any of these things for years to come.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
So John keeps moving. His photography business never made enough to actually pay the bills. So in the early 90s, John got a job driving for a limo company in Seattle and he hooks up with the owner's daughter, Sue. And then in 1993, he proposes to accepts. But before they get married, John made an interesting move. He told Sue he wanted to change his name from John Tessier to John McCullough.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
Now, if you remember, that's his mother's maiden name. He said he wanted to honor his mother, and maybe that's true, but it's also possible that John had an ulterior motive. By now he was 54 years old, he was getting ready to settle down, maybe he wanted to put some distance between himself and his sordid past.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
If so, John was about to be disappointed, because while he was getting ready to start another new life in Seattle... Back in Sycamore, his mom Eileen's life was coming to an end. And she was about to blow the past on her son's life wide open. But also, remember when you were like, if she knew this whole time.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
So, since Maria Riddle's disappearance in 1957, Ralph and Eileen Tessier had remained in Sycamore, but their children had mostly gone their separate ways. One who remained in her parents' orbit, however, was their daughter Janet. Now, Janet had only been a year older than Maria when Maria disappeared.
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Aber sie fühlte sich, als ob sie ihr ganzes Leben unter dem Schatten dieser Verabschiedung, dieser Trauma lebt. Sie wuchs mit einer Art von konstantem, niedrigeren Angst. Und diese Angst wurde in Beziehungen mit ihrer Familie gestärkt. Es war nicht nur unsere Familie. Sie fühlte sich, als ob ihr DNA kaputt war. Sie würde Leuten sagen, ich breche einfach alles, was ich berühre.
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Now, despite this black sheep status, or maybe because of it, when Janet's mother Eileen got cancer in the early 90s, Janet became one of her caretakers. So one day in late 1993, Janet was staying with her mother, when all of a sudden, Eileen, her mother, is calling her name. And Janet rushes to her mother's bedside, and she was concerned by the urgency in Eileen's voice.
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245. The Piggyback Killer
She suddenly felt her mom's hand clamp down on her wrist, and Eileen pulled Janet close. Sie sagte, diese zwei kleinen Mädchen und der eine, der verschwunden ist, John hat es gemacht, John hat es gemacht und du musst jemandem sagen. Janet ist überrascht, weil sie sofort weiß, dass ihre Mutter über Maria Riddle spricht. Und du musst dir das vorstellen. Es ist ihre Tochter.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Ich wurde überrascht, dass ich verabschiedet wurde, als ich über Elisabeth Smart hörte, die ein ganzes Staat entfernt von mir lebte. Erinnere dich an eine Frau, die du kanntest, die nur ein Jahr jünger als du war, die in deinem Nachbarland lebte, geht weg. Sie ist überrascht. Und jetzt sagt ihre Mutter, dass du all diese Jahre in Terror gelebt hast. Es war dein Bruder.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Sie war so überrascht von Eileen's Stimme, dass sie gar nicht wusste, wie sie reagieren soll. Sie hat ihr Mutter nur gesagt, okay, keine Sorge, ich werde es sichern. Und dann fiel Eileen zurück gegen den Pillau und es sah aus, als hätte Janet eine große Bedeutung, sie wurde einfach von ihrer Mutter ausgelöst. Ein paar Wochen später, am 23. Januar 1994, passiert sie weg.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Und Janet ist so, okay, ich werde es tun. Ich werde in die Polizei gehen und ihnen erzählen, was meine Mutter gesagt hat. Sie wusste ohne Zweifel, dass ihre Mutter die Wahrheit erzählte. Wiederum, sie denkt, dass ihre Familie kaputt ist. Sie wollte ihre Vermutung erfüllen, indem sie Offiziere beobachten, um den Fall wieder zu öffnen und ihren Bruder zu schauen.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Und das schien viel schwieriger zu sein, als Janet sich das vorgestellt hatte. Sie hat angefangen, die Sycamore-Polizei zu rufen, sie zu sagen, ich habe eine Führung in diesem Mord, Verbrechen. Und Sycamore-PD gibt ihr den Ausdruck, also versucht sie, die FBI in Chicago zu nennen. Und sie sagen, nein, du musst Sycamore nennen. Also versucht sie Sycamore wieder.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Und wie wirklich niemand wird von ihr hören. Für Jahre. Nichts passiert. Und dann eines Tages im Oktober 1997, ein Detektiv namens Patrick Solar, der letztlich von der FBI-Akademie graduierte, erinnert sich den Medien, dass er diesen Fall geschlossen hat.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Using an FBI offender database, Patrick had connected Maria's murder to a string of similar crimes committed by a transient truck driver in the 50s. This truck driver apparently resembled Kathy's description of Johnny from that day and he's dead now. So there's no trial, no further investigation. Case closed. And Janet's like, no, there's absolutely no way this case is closed.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
For years she's like, how did I have this wrong? How did my mom have this wrong? And so Janet also remembers, hey, me and my siblings clearly remember my mother lying to police that night.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And we thought it was strange and we were gonna tell them, but then we never got a chance to talk to them and we were just like, okay. So finally in 2007, half a century after Maria's disappearance, Janet met a true crime author who'd written a book about a cold case. She couldn't help asking, hey, how do you go about reopening a case?
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And the author's like, listen, you just need to find the right investigator who's ready to look into this.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Someone who wouldn't give up. So after all her years of effort, Janet wasn't sure that person existed in Sycamore, but she decided to give it a try. So in September 2008, Janet sent an email to the Illinois State Police and it said, Sycamore, Illinois, December 1957. A seven-year-old child named Maria Riddle vanished. Her remains were found in another county several miles away.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
I still believe that John Samuel Tessier was and is responsible for her death. And this is the last time I'm going to mention it to anyone. So she's like, I'm done. I'm done trying. I'm going to send one last email and I'm going to... Aber dieses Mal hat es funktioniert. Ein Kommandeur in der Illinois State Police hat sie angerufen, nachdem sie ihr E-Mail gelesen hat.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Und er hat gesagt, hey, ich werde einen meiner Detektiven aufnehmen. Und sie war so, okay, vielleicht ist das ein Zeichen. Vielleicht erfülle ich meinen Mutters sterbenden Wunsch. So after that conversation between Janet Tessier and the commander and the Illinois State Police, two new detectives were now assigned to the cold case. Their first step was to re-interview witnesses.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So they started with Janet and her siblings. So if you remember in the case notes, it shows that they have talked to her brother twice. So they talked to Janet and her siblings and they find some eye-opening information. They learned that all of the kids knew their mother had lied to police. Und sie haben auch andere bedrohliche Geschichten gehört, z.B.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
dass John tatsächlich einen seiner Schwestern sexuell verabschiedet hatte. Nach Interviewen mit anderen Beobachtern haben auch Detektive gelernt, dass es in seiner Zeitung Kontradiktionen gab. Frühere Berichte estimierten den Zeitpunkt der Verabschiedung um 7 Uhr. Aber Beobachter sagen, dass es zwischen 5.50 Uhr und 6.20 Uhr tatsächlich geschehen ist. Also...
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Our sources for this episode include cbsnews.com, cnn.com, dailychronicle.com, nbc.com, the New York Times, the Pittsburgh Press and the National Registry of Exonerations. A trigger warning before we get into the episode. Today's case includes discussions of violence and sexual assault against minors. So please listen with care.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
John irgendwo zu sein und dann irgendwo anders zu sein, ist nicht wirklich wichtig, weil dieser Zeitraum noch da sein könnte. Er hätte Maria bei 6.15 Uhr verabschiedet, sie getötet und dann nach Rockford bei 7.00 Uhr gekommen, um diese Anrufe zu machen. Die Detektivs wussten, dass sie etwas machen mussten, aber sie brauchten mehr.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Also im September 2010 trakten sie Maria's alten Freund Kathy, was wahrscheinlich absolut verrückt war für sie. And they show her a series of photos. They're like, hey, we've reopened the case. We have some photos from back in that time. Do any of these men look like the guy? She's now 61 years old. She looks at all the pictures and she points to John Tessier and says, that's him.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
That's the guy who took her. So by now John was going by Jack. He was 71 years old. He was living in Seattle with his wife Sue. He worked as a night watchman for an upscale retirement home. So one morning after his shift the Illinois State Police detectives approached him along with a couple colleagues from Seattle PD.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
They told John, hey, we need your assistance on a break-in that has happened at a building that he worked. And John's like, okay. But when they get him to the police station, they're like, actually, we want to discuss this little girl who went missing years ago when you were just 18 years old.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Sie verabschiedeten eine Acht-Hour-Interrogation, während John nicht nur Maria kennengelernt hat, sondern er hat auch diese Art von Glauben für sie ausgesprochen. Er sagte, sie ist wunderschön, sie war so wunderschön, sie sah aus wie ein kleines Barbie-Doll aus.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Das ist so schrecklich, Mann. Er hat nie verabschiedet, dass er sie verabschiedet hat oder sie ermordet hat. But prosecutors who reviewed the tape were certain he was guilty. And on July 1st, 2011, John was arrested and charged with kidnapping and murder. He was transported to Sycamore. The judge understood the gravity of the case.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And he was like, listen, this is a trial that this community has wanted for 55 years. This was such a big deal. So he makes the rules clear up front. He says, hearsay, hearsay evidence inadmissible. So this meant FBI documents from the first investigation couldn't be used in trial because the agents who created them were dead. You had to have actual first person testimony.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
But this was actually a blow to the defense as it meant they couldn't use the report that stated John had been interviewed and cleared back then. So meanwhile, the prosecution had their own concerns. They had zero physical evidence, no DNA, no weapon. Even Maria's doll had been lost in evidence in the past 50 years. So this entire case hinged on a witness testimony.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And that was Kathy, who was there when her friend was kidnapped. And luckily enough, Crazy. Oh, get up. They were like, we've never seen him be abusive or show interest in young girls. And they believe he'd been given an unfair trial. And in 2015, his daughter succeeded in convincing State Attorney Richard Schmack to review the case.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Okay, wir leben natürlich in einem Weltraum, in dem wir 24-7 mit News bombardiert sind. Es kommt so viel an uns, dass es uns immer schwierig ist, aufzuhalten. Aber dann gibt es Momente, und hoffentlich sind sie rar. When something so shocking occurs that we remember it for the rest of our lives. Thinking 9-11, the assassination of JFK. These are moments of collective trauma.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Richard went back to the original FBI files, the ones that weren't admitted during trial. He disregarded witness statements indicating that Maria was abducted at an earlier time. And he's like, You're lying. Get out of here. What the... So only four years after this community thought the case was closed, it was open again.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And according to reporters, Maria's family showed little emotion after this verdict. Probably not a big surprise. They knew the world could be a terrible place. And as of this recording, John Tessier is still alive and still free.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
All of you, you suck. Und Maria Riddle's case remains unsolved. I mean, like it's officially unsolved, officially unsolved.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Not allegedly did John rape a 15 year old girl, but allegedly he murdered Maria back then.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And that is the case of Maria Riddle. Honestly, Gross. I don't know. I mean, I guess we don't have all of the information because why do some people say the girls were playing at five and some people say they were playing at seven? I'm really confused on how that was.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Egal wie, dieser Mann ist immer noch ein Pädophil. Ja, also, ich meine, es ist ein schwieriger Fall. Ich meine, ist es nur ein Fall, in dem es nicht genug Beweise gibt? Haben sie die falsche Person?
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Ich meine, warum hat seine Mutter die Polizei verurteilt und dann der Tochter gesagt, dass er es gemacht hat? Warum würde sie sogar für ihn am nächsten Tag verurteilt haben? Und Maria wurde 200 Meilen entfernt gefunden, also war das nicht that night. Sie wurde später gedumpft. In meiner Meinung nach, wenn es Dumpf war.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Alright you guys, that is our case and we will see you next time with another one. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
When a whole society realizes their world is never going to be the same. And sometimes this happens on a smaller scale. For the residents of the small town of Sycamore, Illinois, that moment came on December 3rd, 1957, when seven-year-old Maria Riddle went out to play one night and never came home again.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
You're listening to an Ono Media Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Let's get into it. Sycamore, Illinois, liegt ca. 45 Meilen westlich von Chicago und hatte ca. 7000 Besitzer im Jahr 1957. Ehrlich gesagt, war es ein ziemlich idealer Ort. Jeder kannte jeden. Die meisten Besitzer lockten ihre Türen nicht. Wiederum, es ist 1957, also waren die meisten Leute ihre Türen nicht geschlossen. Sie fühlten sich ehrlich gesagt zufrieden, ihre Kinder auch abends zu spielen.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Es war also nicht ungewöhnlich, dass am Abend des 3. Dezember 1957 maria riddle fragte ihre Mutter Frances, ob sie nach dem Abendessen rausgehen könnte. Der erste Schnee des Jahres fiel und sie wollte es spielen mit ihrer kleinen Freundin Kathy von unten auf der Straße. Nun, das war nicht so, dass manchmal heute die Mutter die Mutter anruft und eine Playdate für siebenjährige Mädchen macht.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Das war damals, als siebenjährige Mädchen ihr kleines Selbst alleine überwacht und auf die Tür knallt und sagt, hey, kann Kathy spielen? Das ist der Art von Playdate, den wir haben. So her mom says, that's fine.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And a few minutes later, the two girls meet out on the corner and they were actually playing a game they called Duck the Cars, which involved running across the street before a car's headlights could hit them.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So it's around this time as they're playing Duck the Cars that a young blonde man approaches the two little girls. The man then told them his name was Johnny and asked if either of them wanted a piggyback ride. So Maria is like, heck yes, adult Johnny.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
I would like a piggyback ride. So Johnny carries her up and down the street. She was laughing the entire way. And when they get back, Maria decided she wanted to get her favorite doll to join her on the next piggyback ride, which is just like devastating.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Feels a little weird right now, because normally we have a monitor on, that you know you see us sometimes looking at, but right now we don't have it on, and it's starting to feel like old Murder With My Husband. And we would record without seeing ourselves.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So she ran back to her house, leaving Kathy alone with Johnny because she's going to get her doll. And while Maria was gone, Johnny asked Kathy if she wanted a piggyback ride. But Kathy said no. So they just sat there and waited for her friend to return. So by now the snow was starting to fall and Kathy was actually getting cold.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So when Maria got back a few minutes later, Kathy looked at her and said, hey, now that you're back from your house, I'm going to run home and go get my mittens because my hands are cold. She was like, can you come with me? And Maria said, no, I'll just stay here. So Kathy goes home alone.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Als sie ein paar Minuten später zurückkommt, sind Maria und der altblonde Johnny-Mann weg. Okay. Kathy wandert ein bisschen draußen herum. Erinnere dich, es wird dunkel und sie ruft Maria an. Und dann geht sie tatsächlich nach Riddles Haus und fragt Maria's 11-jährigen Bruder Chuck um Hilfe. Sie geht da rüber und fragt sie, kann ich dir helfen, deine Schwester zu suchen?
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Now Chuck knew this was not the first time that Maria had gone missing. She had also disappeared a year before while playing a game and turned up about an hour later. She was just out wandering. So Chuck, the 11-year-old, isn't seriously worried. He's like, oh my gosh, she's done it again.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
But when an hour had passed and they still hadn't found her, he decides to finally go home and tell his parents, Francis and Mike, that his little sister Maria was playing with Kathy and went missing with an older man.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So at about the same time, the Ridolfs actually get a call from Kathy's mother, who told them Kathy had seen Maria with a man named Johnny that night and then now apparently she's missing. So the parents learn from both parties that this is happening. Okay. And this is when the panic starts to set in. So Francis called the police to report their daughter missing. And Mike organized a search party.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And at around 8 p.m., the search party went to a house a few blocks over that belonged to a man named Ralph Tessier. Now, Ralph was the owner of the local hardware store. And they wanted him to open the store so they could get some flashlights and lanterns. Now, Ralph said he'd be right there. And then he and his wife Eileen got ready to go. They're going to go help search for this little girl.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
But before leaving, they did something unusual. They locked their front door and they also locked the back, making sure no one could get in the house. And they do this because they do have younger kids and now there's a kid that's missing. And so they're like, we're going to leave the kids home alone. We want the doors locked so they can stay safe. Right. It's like this panic around.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
But I do need to mention that the hardware store owners did have older kids and not all of their kids is home that night because one was not home. He was 18 years old. He had blonde hair and his name was John.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Ja, John Tessier wurde geboren, John Cherry, in Belfast, Irland, im Jahr 1939. Und seine Mutter Eileen, dessen ehemalige Name Mikola war, war mit einem Mann verheiratet, der im britischen Militär während der 2. Weltkriege arbeitete. Als John nur drei Jahre alt war, starb sein Vater im Kampf. Und Eileen, die auch als einer der ersten Frauen Searchlight-Operatoren in der Royal Air Force arbeitete,
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
endete bei einem amerikanischen Soldaten namens Ralph Tessier zu fallen. Ralph und Eileen waren am 18. November 1944 verheiratet. Als Ralph zurück nach Amerika, nach Sycamore, 1946, wo unser Fall stattfindet, nimmt er Eileen, ihre neugierige Tochter, und seinen jetzt sechsjährigen Schwestern John mit. Deshalb haben sie junge Kinder und ältere Kinder.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
John Tessier, wie wir ihn für den Rest des Episodes nennen, landete im rüren Mittwoch im Jahr 1946. In den meisten Fällen, ehrlich gesagt, fiel er nie wirklich darin. Er hat sich nicht mit anderen Kindern verbunden, während er in Sycamore wuchs. Sie verstanden nicht, warum er so viel Zeit verbracht hat, sich in Kamouflage-Panzen umgebracht hat, einen dünnen Schwert geworfen hat.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Und das war, weil er spielte, als wäre er im Krieg. And these antics actually earned him the nickname Commando. And they actually labeled him a permanent outsider that came from a foreign land. But John doesn't really seem to care. He, according to people, was something of a dreamer who preferred to live in his own world. There was one thing about this world, however, that he really liked.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And that was a particular American song he loved, When Johnny Comes Marching Home. Most of us has probably heard this.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So John liked this song because as he said his name is also Johnny but he also idolized soldiers. One of his earliest memories in fact is his birth father in uniform giving him a piggyback ride up the stairs. Now John dreamed of being the celebrated soldier who came marching home. But wanting a hero's welcome doesn't make you a hero.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And when John was just 15 years old, he proved that he was far from his idol when he got expelled for physically assaulting a teacher at school. Nun, die Details dieses Verbrechens haben Zeit verloren, aber es muss ziemlich extrem gewesen sein, weil er nie wieder zur Schule zurückgeht. Er hat sich nur ein bisschen um die Stadt gekleidet, ein bisschen Geld gemacht, Signale gedreht.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Im Grunde hat er seine Zeit in der Stadt gebraucht. now kicked out of school until he could enlist in the military. So right after his 18th birthday, November 28th, 1957, John made an appointment with a military recruiter. They scheduled him a physical exam in Chicago on December 2nd, 1957.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Now on that day, Johnny marches in right on time, but he soon encountered the first major setback of his adult life. Doctors found a spot on his lung due to a childhood infection of tuberculosis. So they tell him, hey, this disqualifies you from service. John is stunned. This is what he's wanted to do his whole life.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So he argued with the recruiters until they agreed to let him come back the next day and take the exam again. He comes back. Doctors are like, nah, bro, the spot is still there and he is still disqualified. So John left the Chicago office with his dream in ruins. And it was about 12 p.m. on December 3rd, 1957.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And back in Sycamore on this exact day, Maria Ridolf was looking forward to the end of the school day. Clouds were gathering and again, the first snow of the year was about to fall.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So what happened next has been a matter of debate ever since. But there are a couple of pretty solid facts. Number one, John leaves. He's devastated because his dream of enlisting is crushed over basically. And he wound up in a town called Rockford. It was about 45 miles from Sycamore and 90 miles from Chicago that night. Now Sycamore is about halfway in between.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
He actually placed a collect call from Rockford to his parents' house at 6.57 p.m. And then between 7.15 and 7.30 he showed up to an Air Force recruitment office that had just closed for the evening. He banged on the door until recruiters answered and begged them to take him despite the spot on his lung.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
John was so worked up when he spoke to the recruiters that they actually thought he was on drugs. But they didn't turn him down and said instead they said, hey, just come back in the morning. And this much of this night is verified. But the question remains, where was John that night before he got to Rockford that evening?
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Es gab einen Zeitraum von dem Zeitpunkt, an dem er das Büro verlassen hat, und dem Zeitpunkt, an dem er zu einem anderen Recruiter-Büro zeigt, an dem er verpasst wurde. Und das ist der gleiche Zeitpunkt, an dem Maria verschwindet.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Ich sage dir etwas vorweg, weil ich den Täter bereits kenne, also gebe ich dir die Zeitung. Die Polizei hat das noch nicht wirklich herausgefunden. Ich sage es dir nach dem Faktum.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Sie fragten, dass seine Eltern die Anwohner der lokalen Hardware-Store sind. Und sie sagten, hey, wir brauchen Flashlights, um sie zu suchen.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
Sie wissen nicht wirklich, ob er involviert ist oder etwas damit zu tun hat. Ja, Marias Eltern und die Suche-Party gehen zu seinen Eltern und sagen, hey, kannst du uns etwas suchen?
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
And I'm just going to be honest right now. I just told you that there's a chunk of time missing in his story. And that question would actually go on to be debated for the next 55 years. So this case is not getting solved right away.
Murder With My Husband
245. The Piggyback Killer
So by 8 p.m. 55 years by 8 p.m. On the night of December 3rd, all of Sycamore was searching for Maria. Police had set up roadblocks. They searched train cars, truck cabs, the bus station. They scoured buildings and houses, fields and woods. No one found any sign of her. However, one searcher did find her doll in the alley behind Maria's house.