Matt Best
Appearances
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with your hosts, me, Matt Best and Jonny Adams. In this podcast, we'll be sharing insights from our combined 30 plus years experience and hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
This is it though, Mike. This is exactly it. And Johnny, you and I talk about this a lot about, and actually we talk about it through the lens of like middle managers who often get stuck in this. You talk about that pyramid structure. some of the most susceptible to this challenge. I mean, if you're a middle manager listening to this, you might be kind of nodding along as we are.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
What do you say to those individuals? How can they help themselves in this situation? Because we can't all go to our bosses, bosses, bosses, boss and say, you're running your business completely wrong. You need to focus on this. So how can a middle manager listening to this podcast help themselves?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Mic drop. Johnny, I can see you've got so much.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
We'll cover all aspects of leadership, sales, account development and customer success, alongside other critical elements required to build an effective growth engine for your business. This podcast is aimed at leaders from exec all the way down to line managers. Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast with myself, Matt Best, and my colleague and partner in crime, Johnny Adams.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
We do tend to talk a lot about, obviously, about the business side and it all comes back to sort of growth. But I think, Mike, what you just shared there is exactly the point of this, right? There's the people side of things and how important that is. I mean, that's great, Mike.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
It reminds me of a conversation, Johnny, we had with a recent guest on the podcast who talked about an experience when they had with their peer group of leaders and their direct leader, right? It's a very senior team. And they'd spent that weekend together and they'd spent that quality time together. And they weren't talking about work. They were just engaging with each other.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
They were building rapport. They were building relationships. And the energy that she felt she got from that experience was just incredible. was just so big, the drive and the motivation that that created for her. And then as the expert leader that she is, she's translating that into how does she create that same experience for her own team and her own direct reports.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And the why is such an interesting point to start because it sounds so obvious. We've all had experiences of businesses where it's just, oh, no, no, no, we're going to keep that just inside our jacket. We're not going to tell them exactly what we need to do because they don't need to know that.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
That's quite a high level of maturity in terms of from a leadership perspective that a leader is willing to say, look, that's exactly what I need. I know I'm not sort of going to step out of the numbers for a minute and go back to the roof of my business that might be the people. So, yeah. Absolutely looking forward to digging into that with you a little bit more today.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
I mean, Johnny, how do you follow that?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
People talk about families and businesses and whatever, businesses and family, whatever about all of that, right? Because some of that is just smoke and mirrors and frankly garbage. Some of that is actually meaningful. But I think what you've just shared there is about your own perception. It's like, okay, you can't change your family.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
So you can't change your family, you could change your friends, but you still need to get on with your fat. Well, some people might argue you don't. You still need to get on. So you've got to work at that relationship. So it's exactly that. It's take responsibility. Don't just throw it away because you can't be bothered.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
The importance of having to work at it and see it as something that you need to work on, but then see the output that working on it will drive for you and for your business. I think that's such an important thing that I'm sure a lot of people on this podcast might be thinking or not thinking.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
There we go. And that is it, right? That's the final statement, but it's not on my Outlook to-do list. I can't see it anywhere. So if there is a lesson to, I mean, there's a lot of lessons in this, Mike, and thank you so much for taking the time to talk to Johnny and I today. Some really fantastic insight. And really, really appreciate you sharing.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
I know our audience will love having listened to this podcast. So thank you for joining us. And I look forward to seeing more of your videos online or maybe in the not too distant future, maybe seeing you stand up in front of a live audience. So thanks again, Mike.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward-thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Mike, I can see you're sort of chomping at the bit.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
I often share some experiences with family and that I've had with family and I was lucky enough to have my parents over visiting recently. So I think something that I've really taken away in the last couple of weeks probably is just that we will talk about sort of work life balance and how important it is.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
But actually, outside of all of those discussions, it was just reconnecting with family and reconnecting with people that you love and then trying to find that. They're trying to find that balance. But I think the most interesting thing is how that's provided motivation in other areas. So, for example, I went on a little jog on the weekend, which has been a long time since I have.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And it was just sort of I felt like it had been inspired by just sort of reconnecting with other parts of my life. And it's given me more drive than in a sort of in a work environment. and a business growth context. So just being able to be conscious of how these things all intertwine and connect with one another, I think is really, really important. So that's my reflection.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Great to see you, Johnny, as always.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
But Mike, I think that example that you gave is just demonstration of your sort of credibility in this space and what people really look for when they want to embark on a conversation with you or they hire you to provide services. I mean, tell us just a little bit about your journey so far. How have you come to be where you are today?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
So today we're joined by Mike Conan, who is an exec coach and a successful executive working in the hospitality sector with a focus on supporting services businesses to drive the right culture and focus on client service. So Mike, it's fantastic to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to Johnny and I today.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Here's something you said there. We've got to work out what works for us. And it's this sort of concept that it's individual and everybody's is going to be slightly different and is going to look ever so slightly different. And I think it's sort of corporate culture. Sometimes it's, well, this is what the business defines as good work-life balance. I'm going to use that term again, but
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
does that apply to everybody absolutely not it can't possibly apply to everybody so it's understanding individual situations and providing that sort of autonomy maybe control like but it's just even that mindful being mindful about it as an individual and having conversations about it with your organization or your business and sort of working out how how that works best for you and actually i'm fascinated in how that works and coming from um having started my career in
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
in support and we're going to talk about service today actually sometimes that's really hard to find in a situation where the reality is somebody needs to be standing behind a desk for a period of time somebody needs to be on the other end of the phone to speak to a customer for a period of time a shift or whatever that looks like so how does that work and coming from the hospitality space you know
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Like you said, I mean, that industry works incredibly hard, sometimes some very long shifts, sometimes a very antisocial hours, as a lot of other sort of jobs, careers and industries do. How do you find that sweet spot in an environment like that?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
So I guess as is customary on our podcast, we like to kick things off with a bit of something interesting that's happened in your past week. So Mike, maybe I'll come to you first. What's been going on in your week that you could share with our audience, maybe provide a bit of inspiration?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Why do you feel like you might be the odd one out?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
I think this is a really important conversation, though, isn't it, around that culture?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And actually, just picking up on that point that you and the term or the word polarity, and I think it's being able to see both those sides, as you said, and Johnny, you just said there, being able to identify what's going on in each of those different worlds and using basic tools such as to-do lists just to keep ourselves honest, because it's really... really hard.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And again, it goes back to, we talked about at the top that everyone's circumstance is different. Everyone's polarity is different. So everybody's perspective, everyone's to-do list will look different. One thing you mentioned, Mike, as you were talking about that was this sort of role of leadership and leadership versus management.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And if we think about that in the context of employees and supporting your employees, I'm curious, is that where you were heading with that comment around leadership versus management? Or were you approaching that from a different perspective?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Hello, and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with your hosts, me, Matt Best, and Jonny Adams. Jonny, hi, great to see you again. How are you doing? Very good, thank you, Matt. Doing very well, thank you. How are you? Good, yeah, very well, thanks. The topic for today is what are the five principles of successful leadership?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Balance, it's about balance and it's about looking at the right things. How do we, again, to your point, take the right metrics, look at them in the right way, coach the team on how to understand them and how to adapt their ability to talk to those numbers, but also what they do that impacts those numbers. And leading on from that into our next one, which is operational rigour.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
We created these principles based on the thousand clients that we've worked with, all that SBR have worked with over the years, and many of those on leadership programs.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
So moving on to our fourth principle, commercial alignment. You've got a lovely quote that you shared with me previously I'd like you to share again.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
I 100% support that. How do you maintain that? But more importantly, how do you maintain that as your business grows? Thank you. And then our last principle of coaching culture, how to develop a rich coaching culture, a culture of support, providing a clear track to run on for your team, aligning to that data principle that we mentioned earlier. Is it really clear what your team needs?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
How are you supporting your teams? What does it scream out for you, Johnny, coaching culture?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Absolutely, Johnny.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
just to run through those five principles our first one being you know leadership is everything and making sure that you're recruiting the right people and how are you recruiting the right people into leadership data is the second looking at people versus metrics so balancing having good analysis good data that you can analyze and understand and identify trends within but also balancing that with the individuals operational rigor how you create consistency and effective habits in in leadership
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
thank you to to you and thank you to everyone who joined us today i'm certain that you may have your own perspective right you may have your own principles that you follow within your business but hopefully what we've done today is share five really great foundational principles to successful leadership alongside some really great examples of of how they've of how they can impact your business and how they can help you in being successful as a leader
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoyed the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward-thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Commercial alignment, that client-centric approach, making sure everyone's going in the same direction, I think is really important. And then finally, to wrap them all up, is that underlying coaching culture. So providing the team with a real track to run on, having a supportive view of leadership and focusing more on the carrot than the stick. The first principle, their leadership is everything.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
What's that mean to you?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 Review - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
The next principle is data and people versus metrics. And I think this is a really interesting topic of how to find the right balance between the people and focusing on the individuals in the team and then what the numbers are telling you. And I think balancing what data you're capturing, why you're capturing it, but more importantly, how you're using it and what you're looking for.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast. Johnny, what a fantastic conversation we just had with Mike Honan. He's such an inspirational speaker. The energy, again, we've been so fortunate on the podcast recently, having these bundles of energy come and join us and to teach and inspire us and our audience. As has become customary on this podcast, right? Let's reflect.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
really comes into play when we think about the polarities in being in management more broadly and not always focusing on the problems to be solved. And I think particularly for those middle managers, it's navigating these polarities, seeing these things as distinct things, but also in your own professional life. And I think that was a key takeaway for me is
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Not seeing, not trying to search for this mystical balance that never exists, but just to think about the different polarities and understand and see that. So I think that was really interesting and probably my key takeaway from the conversation.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And I think what Mike shared with us across the board really touched on some critical things in leadership and management and organizational structure and everything we think about. what we're trying to do to drive our teams towards effectiveness, what we're trying to do to create a real sort of supportive culture within our business that drives the outcomes that we want.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And he shared a lot of really insightful bits around that, around focusing on the team's mental being, thinking about employee engagement and thinking about how important those relationships are with your employees first to drive the right relationships with your customers. So thanks again, Mike, for joining us and to everybody listening out there.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
We hope that you found it as insightful as we did. And we're really looking forward to you joining us again on our next episode. For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
So what was your key takeaway from the conversation with Mike?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Johnny, with that thought process as you're walking along, walking to the shops or whatever you're doing. And you think I think a lot of what Mike shared with us is so applicable in a business context, but also in a personal context. I think that was the key thing for me. And I asked him about about balance.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 7 Review - Connections Before Content: Mike Hohnen’s Leadership Advice for Managing Managers
And his sort of immediate reaction was to shake his head and say that doesn't exist. And actually, it's about understanding and managing the polarity between. And that applies to what you just shared there as we think about that sort of task orientation and relationship building orientation. But it also, I think,
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with your hosts, me, Matt Best and Jonny Adams. In this podcast, we'll be sharing insights from our combined 30 plus years experience and hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
As that business grows and develops, things start to creak and you get this, my priority is going left and you're telling me your priority is going right. And we get that sort of, we start to veer off down different sort of streams that lead off the river. That's a terrible analogy, but to try and extend the rowing analogy there.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
But I think the interesting thing is how to exactly, as Patrick says, how do you maintain that? But more importantly, how do you maintain that as your business grows? And I think, as you said, in the Roots & Shoots paper that we've co-authored with one of our marketing partners, It talks to the marketing and sales collaboration.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
So yeah, I had a really interesting conversation actually again on the leadership piece with a client and they've got all the sort of right ideas. It's just how to put that into practice. And sometimes it's all balancing the process with the people. And I know we're going to talk a bit about that later today, but just Really interesting.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
But for me, it's also really important as you go into when you look at the sales, account management, customer success to operations alignment and how those parts of the business work together as well.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And Johnny, I'd argue it's more than a marginal gain. I think it's a significant gain and a significant improvement looking at your business top down, Anne. Bottom up. Thank you. And then our last principle of coaching culture, and this for me is what sort of wraps around all of the four principles, but indeed any principle that you adopt in leadership. And that's
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Really talking to how to develop a rich coaching culture, a culture of support, providing a clear track to run on for your team, aligning to that data principle that we mentioned earlier. Is it really clear what your team needs? How are you supporting your teams? Johnny, you mentioned spending sufficient time with coaches. the team in shadowing, in coaching one-to-ones, so important.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And just having that culture of support rather... And I differentiate this when we think about management versus leadership. And management is... We've all seen those little cartoons on LinkedIn where the manager's shouting and pushing everyone up the hill first and the leader's at the top of the hill dragging everyone up after them. And I think...
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
That's a really important thing to think about when we think about that coaching culture. You want to be able to sit down with your leader and have a conversation, be a bit vulnerable, ask for support and for help without the fear of being berated or the fear of the fact that you maybe have failed or not done as well in something.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
That means that your managers or your leader is going to look at you differently and not support you in the way you need it. I think that for me is really what a coaching culture is trying to do.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
encouraging and enabling your leaders to have really effective coaching conversations with their team to act as a coach and into a mentor but not as a manager going down a list of tasks have you done this have you done this have you done this right on to the next one we know that's not effective what what does it what does it scream out for you johnny coaching culture i love your analogy of the sort of that trek or that mountain approach it actually made me think back as you're talking there to some of the occasions that i've had as a
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
We've got all this in place, but why are we struggling to get it moving? Yeah, did some prep work with another colleague on how we're going to help them in tackling that challenge. So it's great. So in terms of today's conversation, Johnny, I think the topic for today is what are the five principles of successful leadership? And I think it's... This is a really interesting topic to dive into.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Yeah, I think you're right. I like your phraseology there as well, stinky culture. We've all seen those sort of stinky cultures and the impact that it has. And yeah, I think really important. And culture starts at the top, but actually has to exist everywhere. And it's interesting, Johnny, you talk about the three to five hours and it might only be one.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
I've worked with teams where they're doing six hours, but those six hours have been poor and actually it doesn't give you the results that you want. And three effective hours is better than 10 ineffective hours. So again, just thinking about how you're delivering that in your business as well and what you're supporting and reinforcing.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
I'm sure people listening will have their own perspectives, maybe even have their own principles that they've delivered in different organizations that they've worked in the past. But obviously, we take these principles or we created these principles based on the thousand clients that we've worked with or that SBR have worked with over the years, many of those on leadership programs.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Absolutely, Johnny. And thank you to you and thank you to everyone who joined us today. today, I'm certain that you may have your own perspective, right? You may have your own principles that you follow within your business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
But hopefully what we've done today is share five really great foundational principles to successful leadership, alongside some really great examples of how they can impact your business and how they can help you in being successful as a leader. So with that, I'd encourage you to think about
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
these and how you can incorporate some of this into your own leadership culture into your own organization and so we very much look forward to seeing you on the next podcast and johnny thanks so much again for your insight and contribution in the podcast today awesome thanks man cheers now For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward-thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
So it's great for us to be able to bring that insight and that experience to the table and share that with everyone on the podcast today. So what I thought might be good is if we just highlight what those principles are and then we can dive into it. And as usual, great to get your perspective and we can have a bit of a conversation about it.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
We'll cover all aspects of leadership, sales, account development and customer success, alongside other critical elements required to build an effective growth engine for your business. This podcast is aimed at leaders from exec all the way down to line managers. Johnny, hi, great to see you again.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
yeah indeed as ever this is our sort of perspective and our opinion and i think we've got that experience to leverage on but it's not always right and there's probably hundreds of principles out there that that are appropriate in different settings just to run through those five principles before we get into into the meat of the conversation today so our first one being you know leadership is everything and making sure that you're recruiting the right people and how are you recruiting the right people into leadership
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Data is the second, looking at people versus metrics, so balancing, having good data that you can analyze and understand and identify trends within, but also balancing that with the individuals. Operational rigor, how you create consistency and effective habits in leadership.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Commercial alignment, that client-centric approach, making sure everyone's going in the same direction, I think is really important. And then finally, to wrap them all up is that underlying coaching culture. So providing the team with a real track to run on, having a supportive view of leadership and focusing more on the carrot than the stick.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
So, Johnny, I think those are the five that we've come up with. I'd love to get your thoughts, Johnny, on the first principle that leadership is everything. What's that mean to you?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And you really took a risk there, going down the Boris Johnson route, Johnny. I implore your bravery. I can see the comments going wild and hear the clicks of people clicking off. Please don't leave us. We promise that's the last bit of political garbage that we intend to spin today. So, Johnny, the next piece or the next principle is data and people versus metrics.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And I think this is a really interesting topic of how to find the right balance between the people and focusing on the individuals in the team and then what the numbers are telling you. And I think there's a starting point here. I know we've talked about this previously, balancing data.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
What data you're capturing, why you're capturing it, but more importantly, how you're using it and what you're looking for. What's your perspective when it comes to data? What would you say is the most important aspect of that in terms of finding the right balance between focusing on individuals and then focusing on what the data is telling you?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Yeah, I think you said it there, Johnny, is balance. It's about balance and it's about looking at the right things. I've been in, I'm sure we've all been in those sorts of pipeline reviews where someone turns up, we're looking at high level, top level numbers.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And we work a lot with organisations to focus on the inputs as opposed to the outputs as those really critical leading indicators in sales and effective sales. And so often you walk into, as a leader, you walk into an exec briefing and maybe get a bit of a kicking on pipeline or a kicking on closed sales. And that then, when leaving the room, that's sort of carried with you.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And that can guide the way that you then behave with the team. It's like, why are we not there? And it just, it doesn't foster a productive conversation, in my opinion. And I think it's just, how do we, again, to your point, take the right,
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
metrics look at them in the right way coach the team on how to understand them and how to adapt their own their own well their ability to talk to those numbers but also what they do that impacts those numbers and start to create that across the different layers within the organization i think that's key and then like you said how often how much time they're spending shadowing how much time they're spending actually in one-to-one coaching sessions or how much time are they spending in an excel spreadsheet and using that as a big sort of dirty stick to beat people with
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
So leading on from that into our next one, which is operational rigor. And this sort of talks to those sort of consistency in the habits. And this is probably where it's really most important to balance those sort of metrics and people. And this principle talks to how...
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
operationally and as a leader, you are maintaining the right cadence with your team, but you're maintaining the right consistency and habit in the way that you coach, in the way that you deliver, in the way that you operationally run your team. How often are you reviewing key metrics with your team? How are you using that to then guide the team forward? It's interesting. I am in a previous life.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
I picked up the nickname Matt Best Efficiency due to my focus on operational rigor. So it's something that's very close to my heart. What does it mean to you, Johnny? Oh, my gosh.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
You're not going to live that one down. I would agree, Johnny, I think going back to the appreciating understanding that there is some repetition in the role, especially in that middle management role within a business. I think the interesting thing here is, as you said, is balancing that. I think the important thing to say here as well, though, is that whilst you might have some repetition, the
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Coaching your team and having really great people conversations should feel, you know, should feel really engaging if you really, if that's something that you want to do as part of the, you know, as a leader, it's a fundamental skill and it's something you can continue to hone.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And I think, you know, as ever with the sort of monotonous tasks, it's always sort of challenging yourself to think about how you can make those more efficient, how you can automate, but at the same time, realizing to your point that it is an ongoing recurring thing and you can't leave it alone for three months, expect to come back and it's still working.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
Yeah, that's a question we should be asking all of our clients is why do we think that's important? And it's about effectiveness, isn't it? And discipline, like you said, understanding the process, understanding what it takes. So then being able to map what that looks like and then stay accountable to it. And that needs and that requires discipline.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
It requires the right habits and it requires for a lot of practitioners on the ground, the support of their leader and being able to execute against that. Nice. So moving on to our fourth principle and looking at commercial alignment. And this is you've got a lovely quote that you shared with me previously. I'd like you to share again about rowing in the same direction.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
That jet lag coming the other way is horrible, isn't it? Yeah, for me, I had another... you know, fun-packed week working with a lot of clients. It's been fantastic being back face-to-face. I know we've been living in the virtual world for so long and actually just getting back in front of people and in those sort of workshops, it's really engaging. It's been really enjoyable.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
And I think as part of a part of commercial alignment and a client centric organization, and we've at SBR here, we've recently published a co-authored a white paper around rowing. a client-centric approach and everyone in the business guided towards the same outcome.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
I had a similar conversation with a leader in a customer success function of a managed services client just earlier this week who reiterated to his team that customer success is all about
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
joints is a responsibility of the entire business to make our customers successful and that really aligns to that same we talk about here commercial alignment which is understanding the need for everyone to have that sort of commit to look at things through a commercial lens but it really starts with that client centricity so yeah johnny share with us that quote that you shared with me just before our recording here today would you and then i'd love to hear your perspective and your take on a commercial alignment
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 9 - The 5 Principles of Successful Leadership
I 100% support that. I've been in business. And actually, it's one of those things, I think, where... and this isn't university true by any means, but the examples I've seen of where that really comes true is you look at those sort of challenger startup markets and there's a team of a dozen people and they are all rowing in the same direction. They are all 100% focused on the goal.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast. So wow, Johnny, what a fantastic conversation that we just had there with Chris Register from Planhat. He shared some really fantastic insights with us around the importance of long-term customer management and client centricity. I'd love to get your takeaway. What was the key thing that stood out to you from our conversation?
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Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
motion in your business and and hence your point around why that's so important culturally and to build that culture within your your wider business not just within a siloed part of it i.e your customer success team i think one of the interesting stories that chris shared around the b2b organization that really prioritized sales velocity over anything else and the cro then wondering why you know
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
ARR was still going down and it's this kind of leaky bucket analogy right where we keep filling in the bucket at rapid pace but the holes in the bucket get bigger and bigger and more and more flows out the other end and I think it's really fascinating to think about what that means and how that relates to long-term customer management and I think
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
When we talk to customers about this, we talk about having a well-defined ideal client profile and truly understanding the client that you're going after that makes sure that you're bringing the right clients or partnering with the right clients in your business to demonstrate the value and provide them with the services that they need.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And I think that's one way that you can help maintain that high sales velocity and continue to serve your customers well. But I think the other thing that stood out to me is Well, how do you then also look at this from a handover transition? How do you effectively onboard those customers into your business? How do you effectively partner with them?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
How do you truly understand their business challenges across their entire business and across your entire business? so that you can really, truly partner with them and continue to support them for the long term. I think that was a really, really fascinating bit of insight and a really great story that he shared with us as well that shows that we can't just focus on one end of the customer journey.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
We've got to look holistically across all of it. So many insights in this discussion with Chris, and he talked so eloquently about this topic of customer management and how PlanHat support their customers in achieving this and helping them achieve this for their own clients. We'd love to thank Chris again for being part of the podcast. And we look forward to you joining us again soon.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 Review - Client-Centric SaaS: How to Scale, with Chris Regester
It's building on what you said there, Johnny, I think a lot of what Chris talked about was, and how he redefined customer success is actually long term customer management, I think is so important and looking at customer success or customer management as a ongoing thing.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast. Jonny, what a great conversation we've just had with Leslie Ronaldson, the VP of Sales here at Gong. She shared some incredible insights with us in that conversation and the energy, I think, just really filled me up in that discussion. I'm curious, what was your key takeaway from our chat?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Jodie, thanks for sharing that. And I agree completely. I think selling with integrity is the opposite of lots of people's perception of what sales is all about. And I think it's so, so important to remember that. We talk to people coming new into sales careers or new into sales roles and having that. I don't want to try and flog something to somebody. That's not what sales is about.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Sales is about understanding what somebody needs to aligning to those needs and then winning together. And I think she encapsulated that really nicely in her examples, hadn't she, Johnny? So yeah, I'm borrowing yours there. I think the other thing for me and my real key takeaway was she talked about how she helps her team in staying client-centric. And so many people I speak to
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
turn around and say, we're a client-centric team. We're all in it together. And sometimes what that can cause is just chaos and havoc.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And without the clarity that she shared, the importance of having that track to run on and the team having clear responsibilities about what they needed to do, but at the same time maintaining this universal, unified focus on the client and the client being at the heart of all those decisions, I think is such a hard thing to achieve. And she's clearly
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
done that and continues to work to reinforce that in her organization. I found that really, really inspiring.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
So I think for me, it's about, you know, thinking about how I take that into the advice and the guidance that I'm giving my clients when it comes to creating that robust sort of end to end process that has to have a certain amount of structure whilst retaining this vital focus on client centricity. And I think that was, yeah, stand out for me. Again, what a fantastic conversation.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
As you said at the beginning here, Johnny, her energy is just, I think we could have talked for hours. So thank you again so much to Leslie Ronaldson, VP of Sales in EMEA for Gong, for joining us on the Growth Workshop podcast and all of our listeners out there. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. And a bow for Johnny and I. See you next time. For more insights, make sure you subscribe.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 Review - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with your hosts, me, Matt Best and Jonny Adams. In this podcast, we'll be sharing insights from our combined 30 plus years experience and hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Thomas, what's your perspective on why that is?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Why do you think that might be the case? Because, I mean, again, going back to that sort of personal versus business, is the difference here that we're asking for a referral to procure services more often in our personal life than perhaps to sell services? I wouldn't necessarily see a friend in the pub and say, you should buy these trainers.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
In fact, anyone who knows me will attest to the fact that I do actually do that, which is probably a bad example. Matt, I'd never buy your trainers, by the way. So, yeah. LAUGHTER Yeah, what's your take on that? And this gets us, Thomas, I think, into some more of the sort of practicalities of how to start to generate these sort of referrals and to develop those critical habits.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
really busy week last week, actually. And Thomas, much like yourself, lots and lots of meetings, really effective, great conversations. And we all know that in business development and sales, the week that follows that is a week of follow-ups. And that's really what this week has been about. But it's really great being able to reflect on those fantastic conversations with clients and prospects.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Perfect, yeah. And I think... Maybe we gravitate more towards those trusted relationships. I guess that's that point that you're making there, Johnny, is that where you do have a trusted relationship, it gets easier and easier to ask for referrals.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
And maybe, Thomas, there's that sort of the next layer out from that is and you're talking about the minimum requirement in order to ask for a referral and having that credibility there. Clearly, we'd love to... Those trusted relationships are ones that are more comfortable and where it's easier to ask for a referral.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
But if we step outside of that comfort zone, then looking at how we're demonstrating the credibility that we've got. And I know, Thomas, from conversations that we've had before, you... you share an example of how you would teach this to clients and using the conference speech analogy.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
I wonder if it might be useful to share that with our listeners today, just to show, I guess, the other end of that extreme.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
And if we think about our listeners to this podcast and their own sort of focus on growth, just a little reminder of all of that hard work that you've put in, what comes out, and maybe some of our listeners will have shared your pre-8am contract signatures, Thomas, which is always a nice way to start the week. Let's hope so. Wonderful. Well, look, Thomas, you're a serial entrepreneur, right?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Thomas, clearly, there's probably a lot of people listening to this thinking, oh, my gosh, well, not only do I maybe not get that many opportunities to stand up on the stage, but also I feel like I have to take some smaller steps first. And clearly, that's what you're trying to encourage them, how you're trying to encourage them to think by demonstrating that.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
quite how any situation it's possible to ask for a referral. But what are you trying to steer them towards? Is there a particular point that sits between standing on stage in front of 500 people and asking your friend for a referral? What would you say is that sweet spot?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
You've got vast experience in developing and growing businesses. So tell us, what's your biggest success?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
I think something that that highlights to me there, Thomas, as well is, and a couple of things that you'd shared that I just want to sort of pull out is asking an understanding about somebody else's situation first is what's going to help us in building that credibility in the conversation. It's going to be what helps us in building rapport in the conversation. Because I think a big part of it is,
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
We'll cover all aspects of leadership, sales, account development and customer success, alongside other critical elements required to build an effective growth engine for your business. This podcast is aimed at leaders from exec all the way down to line managers. Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast with your hosts today, Matt Best and Jonny Adams.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
I know we would never sort of advocate for just turning up and shaking someone's hand and saying, right, tell me, who have you got in your network who you think you refer me to? These are the things that I do. Let's see how we can help one another out, right? By reminding ourselves that actually we still need to stay, we still need to be interested in them, not interesting.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
And we still need to start with questions and start with building an understanding of their business and their challenges before we then respond with, you know, with... with asking for a referral and then wrapping that up in Johnny and your point around sort of advice and guidance as using that sort of humbly, but also recognizing that if we ask for that, we are likely to get that.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
We are still likely to get that response. Thomas, just as we close up our conversation from today, we started with three key things that helped you in being successful.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
If you've got someone listening to this podcast who's relatively new to referrals and hasn't seen it as a way of developing business, how would you sort of summarize the three key things for those sorts of individuals to be thinking about and to maybe start to put into practice to really develop this referral habit?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Wonderful. And yeah, I did. Johnny agree. There's this bring it into our conscious competence and thinking about this. And Thomas, thank you so much for your fantastic advice and guidance to us and to and to the audience on today's podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. Johnny, thank you as well as ever. And thank you to all of our listeners of the Growth Workshop podcast.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
We look forward to seeing you again soon. Right. Thank you both. For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward-thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
So 82 times return flipping businesses clearly sets you out as someone who knows very well what they're doing. We'd love to know, what are the three things that have helped you in being so successful with that business, but also with the other businesses that you've worked with and achieved growth for?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Thomas, it's great to have those sort of three key areas, and we love to dig into each of those and paying particular attention to number one and referrals. But just before we do that, account management is something very close to my heart and my experience in customer success and running account management teams. And I think it can sometimes be such an understatement.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
appreciated side of the business so I was having a conversation with that CS leader just the other day and we were talking about the volume of business and the cost of losing business is so seldom seen as a sort of risk and all that focus gets put on to sales and acquiring new logos and then you turn around and if half your customer base is gone, you've undone all of that good work.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
So it's such a, I think, just wanted to share my view, my perspective there as someone, you know, I think account management is so, so key, especially in services businesses where you've got ongoing commitments and, you know, in modern SaaS, of course, and 10 years is quite something. I mean, you must go through a number of key stakeholders in that time.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
So it just demonstrates that good account managers really are really impactful and effective in one's business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Leading nicely into your third point of co-tailing, right? And the importance of maintaining those strong relationships and then following them around the industry.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
I mean, that's incredible, right? I mean, if you set that goal for many sales professionals just on their own, that's...
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
We're joined today by the fantastic Thomas Coles and we're really, really looking forward to exploring how Thomas has been a successful entrepreneur, developing and growing businesses over his illustrious career. But as is customary on the Growth Workshop podcast, Thomas, I'd like just to welcome you with our first question, which is, tell us what's been interesting in your week this week?
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Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
That's some ROI. That's awesome. Yeah, that's very cool. And I think thinking about that, Thomas, and you mentioned there that essentially that person becoming an extension of your sales team, right? And I guess as referrals as a tool or a thing that helps achieve this growth, it's exactly that. It's extending your sales organization out through your...
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
trusted relationships and the partnerships that you have with clients who really advocate for you in the market and advocate for the product. So, I mean, tell us a little bit more. Maybe I'll start with a sort of fairly simple question. There might be some people on there listening to the podcast today thinking, what does referrals really mean? What is referrals? So how would you define referrals?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
What does it mean?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
What's gone on that you can share with our listeners to get everyone excited at the start of today's podcast?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
It's such an interesting point, and I think this... Thomas, I love your recommendation to the listeners around it almost doesn't matter, but if you signpost that point, it's part of how you win business. I can think just now off the top of my head, I've got three or four clients who I know have told me that probably not in such a direct way.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
And I wonder if that's just an extension of that bit of advice that says being really, really clear about what that means for you. Rather than saying something, oh, yeah, well, I get quite a lot of my business from past customers. But being really, really explicit about that is the primary source of business for my business or my business growth is through referrals.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Just really putting that statement out there sets out that scene. And as I said, I mean, there's easily half a dozen businesses that I've been working with who I would say could say that and it would be the reality for them.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Brilliant. That sounds incredibly productive, which is fantastic. Thank you. And Johnny, what about you? You always have normally an interesting story to share with us at the start of these podcasts.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
And maybe, Johnny, I'll just add another light bulb that's just gone on for me here, Thomas and Johnny, just around when I think about this is, this is almost an opportunity as well to get things earlier in the buying cycle, because a big part of those preliminary conversations are had in a sort of safer space.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Those who are going to kind of internet search, maybe you've done a little bit more thinking, whereas someone who sat there thinking, well, maybe I need this. Hey, I'll just ask a couple of my mates in the market. Or I'll just ask a couple of my mates down the pub who I know work in a similar industry. What have you done to fix this? Do you have this problem? Oh, yeah, I do.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
You should go and speak to X, Y, and Z. And I guess that's a big part of it as well, Thomas, right? In terms of getting in or opening doors earlier in the conversation as a result of being somebody who then becomes, who's given that opportunity to
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
take that real consultative approach towards helping a customer see where procuring a service whatever that might be is going to help them in driving their business forward yeah you're absolutely right matt i would characterize it as being there at the right time to help to shape their thinking so if you think about the way you might personally consider buying a car
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with your hosts, me, Matt Best and Jonny Adams. In this podcast, we'll be sharing insights from our combined 30 plus years experience and hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
We need to pull from the product itself because we need to understand what that usage looks like. And that extra layer of complexity there in implementation causes more challenges. But it's so critical as a CSM having all of that in a single pane of glass view in order to serve the customer most effectively. Yeah.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
I think it also, to me, talks to the challenge of the evolution of CS. And Chris, I'm curious to get your thoughts here as the value of CS in the business and how to demonstrate that value and how to quantify the value. Because so often, again, it's a little bit perhaps more binary and a little easier to quantify that value of a salesperson by their success in closing and winning work.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And where you've got someone in CS, CS is still so often seen as a cost center value. which is kind of crazy to Johnny's point of it being at the heart of retaining your client base that you've worked so hard to get. What does that mean, not just for PlanHap, but just in your experience, Chris?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
There's not necessarily a direct question there, but I'd love to get your perspective on CS and where you think it fits and how you think it should be seen and how PlanHap maybe helps do that.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
I think one example you gave there of the household B2B, clearly that's an operating model. That's a sort of directional challenge, which, as you said, is the top-down piece. There's the other bits that Johnny talked about there around training, enablement, coaching.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
We'll cover all aspects of leadership, sales, account development and customer success, alongside other critical elements required to build an effective growth engine for your business. This podcast is aimed at leaders from exec all the way down to line managers. Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast with myself, Matt Best, and my co-host, Jonny Adams. Hello. Hi, Jonny.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
There's culture that could be used as a bit of an umbrella term, perhaps, that just sort of, yeah, that encapsulates a lot of that stuff. I mean, we would see typically challenges around, you know,
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
um remuneration and compensation as being kind of key drivers are we driving all of the right behaviors that's a bit more of the stick than the carrot i think there's for me and what i've seen in various businesses is and this is linked very much to the culture but it's almost the people armed with or not necessarily armed and that's probably the point
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
but tasked with the job of looking after clients and growing clients and how they are seen under the CRO banner in terms of the autonomy that they're given, the capability to serve in the best possible way.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
The level of experience that you're hiring, I've seen organizations who see CS as a feeder into sales or product and it's sort of part of, and it's where you go into CS through being a good support technician. So that's for me is fundamentally the wrong way around because CS is about developing, nurturing the relationships better. of those clients that define your business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
So is that something that you're seeing as well when you're not necessarily just your clients, but also when you're out in the market? Is that still something that you think that we're all sort of working towards?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
Big, big, big adventure. That is quite the journey and the international element there as well, right? It's so fascinating to experience all those different cultures, especially as you're building something new. That must have been really interesting.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
So, Chris, circling back to what you shared earlier around how Planhat was formed and the nature in which you were able to do that through bootstrapping, but with a continued focus on value and delivering value to your customers. If you're out there and you don't necessarily have that option, right, maybe you can't bootstrap it yourself.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
How do you stop yourself from getting distracted by those other things that are out there that might pull you offline and remain focused on delivering and focused on value to the customer?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
That's really interesting, the concept of productizing customer management. And I guess there's that on that journey, working out where to point your resource in the most appropriate way to maintain and develop and grow those relationships. If you're sat listening to this podcast now, and you're a business that's starting to see an increase in churn, let's say you're a software business,
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
You're starting to see an increase in churn. You're not really sure where it's coming from. You've got an established customer success team. You've got a healthy pipeline of new business. Where would you advise someone in that position to go look first?
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
Fantastic. And Johnny and I are both kind of nodding along there. I think we would absolutely concur with that. I've got one final question for you, and this might be a tricky one, but obviously at Planhat, you use Planhat, right? What of the features, if you had to pick two features, would you say that your team appreciate most from the product?
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
Chris, you said it goes back to productizing customer management. That's real sort of demonstration of how that comes to life. I think one thing that really jumps out to me, and if I go back a number of years, back to when I was a CS or account management practitioner, and you think,
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
If you could have any wish, it would be to automate some of the management of some of your smaller customers and to provide you with relevant insight at the right time so that you can be relevant to your customer. And I think actually what you just articulated there for me feels like exactly that. It's like, how do we take, you know, and that's for me is the sort of.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
The fundamentals of good customer management is understanding your customer, understanding where you provide value to your customer and making sure that you help them in seeing that, but also getting it. And I think actually those features that you've just articulated, I think really enable that. Chris, thank you so much for joining us today.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
It's been a fantastic discussion about client centricity and it's so great to hear how Planhat's out there helping some of those client managers or CSMs or account managers or whatever we want to call them to really do the very best job to continue to deliver value for their customer. And I think just client centricity at the heart of growth is what we wanted to talk about today.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
That's fantastic. And a recent guest on this podcast, we were talking about employee satisfaction being the forerunner to client satisfaction. And I think, you know, talking about focus on talent, focus on people and seeing that as your key leverage and your key opportunity for growth is, I don't think many naturally think like that. And I think that's a really fascinating bit of insight.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And I think actually if we circle back to that, what we've explored are some really, really great ways in which to do that And Chris, you shared some fantastic insight with our audience. So on behalf of Johnny and I, we'd like to thank you so much for joining us on the Growth Workshop podcast. Thank you for having me. For more insights, make sure you subscribe.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And if you enjoy the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward thinking mindset. Goodbye.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And we really want to dive into this concept of client centricity with you today. But as is customary on the podcast, and just before we get into the meat of things, we'd love to hear something that was particularly interesting in your week.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
Love that. That energy, right? Just getting energy from places where we don't necessarily expect it. And I mean, I know I didn't get a chance to go in person, but just even hearing it on the TV, you could almost sort of feel the power coming through. And as a rugby fan, I've had many experience in the Stade de France listening to that being chanted in my ear. They really get behind their team.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
It's fantastic to hear that support.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And today we are joined by the fantastic Chris Register. And Chris is one of the founding members and current CCO of Planhat. Planhat are a customer platform built to acquire, service, and grow lifelong customers. Chris has also a wealth of experience in growing and developing SaaS software organizations over his illustrious career so far. So Chris, thank you for joining us.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
Matt, what about you? It's funny how we seek inspiration in some of the strangest places. But I've had a reflection of my own over the last couple of weeks. I've been back out on my bike a little bit, which has been really good and really energising. But for once, I've stuck with it for a period of time.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
So rather than doing one ride and then giving up for another three weeks and then going back and doing it, I've done sort of back-to-back fairly decent bike rides recently. And something I noticed, if we think about this in the context of growth and sales, is how the power of kind of sticking with it and then tracking your progress. So I've climbed the same hill three weekends on the bounce.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And the friend that I go riding with, shared the Strava link and the PB that we achieved last week. And you just think that's those little wins, right? It's a small goal, but these just stepping stones that gives you that motivation and that drive to go forward. So yeah, that's what I was celebrating in this past week. Awesome.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
So Chris, diving into your experience and the insight that you could share with this audience when it comes to kind of client centricity. We talk a lot about client centricity with our clients, but also for ourselves. And I think I see the importance of having a client-centric approach. And obviously Planhat is really built around that.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And the Planhat CRM software is built around that client-centric approach. And it's perhaps unique focus in perspective of the customer rather than perhaps coming at it from a sales or marketing pipeline perspective. So how has this client-centric approach shaped the development and growth of Planhat in your eyes?
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And how do you ensure that that kind of permeates throughout every level of the organization?
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
It's fantastic to see you. I know SBR and Planhat have been partners now for some time, and we talk a lot about customer success, or as it's often known, CS for short. And what would be a fascinating place to start today's conversation is just talk to our listeners a little bit about where things started out for you and how your journey began.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
I think the interesting thing for me here as well, Chris, and coming from a sort of CS background myself, I think there's all of that complexity that exists within the team in terms of process and the journey, the overall additional customer journey complexity. The other thing is the various different integration requirements. And I think that's such a huge part of it.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
I always sort of liken this to my experience in the trading world. And if you have a front-end trading platform like a Bloomberg or whatever... define what it is because everybody starts there, right? It's the point of contact for the end user. So the trader originates the activity and they originate it in that platform. Therefore, that platform dictates downstream.
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Episode 8 - Client-Centric SaaS – How to Scale, with Chris Regester
And it's those middle and back office systems that have to do all of the joining together and the sellotape and the glue and the staples that knits it all together. And I guess that's where Again, Planhat and where it's originated with this client first is going to have that complexity of, right, we need to take from a billing system. We need to pull from a IT service management system.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop Podcast with your hosts, me, Matt Best and Jonny Adams. In this podcast, we'll be sharing insights from our combined 30 plus years experience and hearing from other industry leaders to get their thoughts and perspectives on what growth looks like in modern business.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Yeah, that's fascinating. And some might be listening to this and saying, well, that's about the product. No, it's not that, right? In order to make that product sing, you need the people behind it. So, you know, thinking about that and we think about why that's then important as a unified approach across your whole business. How do you take that from a product initiative? We drive everything.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
This is why our customers love it and make it something that lives and is the sort of foundation of a business.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
A whole load of stuff in there to unpack, Liz. I mean, you talked to me about roles and responsibilities and Johnny will know without that clarity of process, that clarity of ownership. But then you also said something which some might think that contradicts that in the sense that the whole business needs to be customer centric and the whole business needs to be focused on the customer.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And I think some people say, well, that means that everybody owns a bit of it. Yeah, but people still have jobs and people still have certain responsibilities that talk to their skill set. It's finding that balance, isn't it?
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
It's peer pressure, Lesley, but I think the devil's in the detail with that example in that you've been in at that client. You're not sitting there from an ivory tower pushing people to commit stuff they're not comfortable to commit. You've been on the other side of the table to that customer.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
You're translating your confidence back into the team and back into... And I think that's the difference. It's that you talk about teams win deals and tribal knowledge, and you just simply can't... It doesn't matter how long someone's been in the business. They will not know everything. You've got to... And things are constantly evolving and constantly changing.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
So the ability to pull teams together like that and go... And then have that psychological safety net that allows you to put their hands up and go, I'm a bit blocked here. I need some help. Can someone help me? And someone goes, you know what? I've done this over here with this customer. Come have a chat afterwards. We can unblock this together. That's the magic.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
That's where we start to get that collaboration.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
So, yeah. Yeah, harmony, nice. And, Johnny, there's nothing that a pregnant woman, in my experience, the thing about my wife that likes least is watching the other half sup a nice cold beer in the sunshine at about 12 o'clock on holiday. So, yeah.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
We'll cover all aspects of leadership, sales, account development and customer success, alongside other critical elements required to build an effective growth engine for your business. This podcast is aimed at leaders from exec all the way down to line managers. Hello and welcome to the Growth Workshop podcast with myself, Matt Best, and my co-host, Johnny Adams.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
One of us should have a good time. Fantastic. Similarly, reconnecting with family, right? I think that's been something that for me over the weekend, I've been fortunate to have my parents come and visit, which is always nice. And it's good for the kids to get some time with their grandparents as well. So I've just had a really, yeah, really nice time kind of connecting.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And when you think about that, work life harmony peace right just a bit of prioritizing time had a couple of really involved weeks at work which have been really great really kind of rewarding in lots of ways but tiring in others and sometimes it's good to be able to just go i need to disconnect from this a little bit and reconnect with the family time so that's been what's going on in my world
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Yeah, I think from what you just shared there, I mean, it's not quite a blueprint, but it's almost getting towards that, Leslie. I think we always came full circle. We talked about sort of how exposed you are in a SaaS business versus the old days. And I think what you're talking about there is how to... stay competitive against yourself as well, right?
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
It's sort of standing up to your own standards and maintaining those high standards and ability to deliver, which is also really, really challenging. I love what you shared there around sort of personalization at scale and then how responsive you can be and just even understanding that if one of our customers is saying this, they're probably not the only one.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And I've seen that firsthand, you know, that ignorance or arrogance even that bleeds into customer success. So they go, well, that customers, they don't know what they're talking about. We've had four now this week who said that this is rubbish. They must be, they must all be wrong. It's like, well, hang on a minute.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And then all of a sudden what happens when it hits your chair number in the next, like in six months time. So being a, you know, being really acutely aware, I think, Something you shared is how you're showing your team that what Johnny and I talk to our clients a lot about in that track to run on. So this is you're an SDR coming into the business. This is the journey that you're going to go on.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
We're going to give you exposure at those points. That's how you get a team invested in the business, in the customer and get them caring and getting them thinking outside of their silos and thinking outside of their immediate responsibilities.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Leslie, I'd love just to ask you, if you were to give our audience, say, let's say we've got someone out there who's a CRO or sales director or head of customer success or whatever it is, someone in a SaaS business that's growing and thriving. What would be the three key things that you'd encourage them to really think about from what you've shared with us today?
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And Leslie, how about you?
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Brilliant bits of advice and insights shared right from the get go. You're really understanding our customer, creating an organization that's truly customer centric and why that's so important for retaining and growing an effective SaaS business in today's incredibly competitive market. Leslie, we thoroughly enjoyed talking to you and we look forward to seeing you again soon.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoyed the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward-thinking mindset. Goodbye.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Today, we're joined by the fantastic Leslie Ronaldson, a friend of our business now for a number of years and a familiar face to a few of us here. So we're thrilled to have you on with us today, Leslie. So thank you so much for joining.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
So thank you so much. And it's interesting you say around the childhood piece. I was listening to Simon Sinek on the High Performance podcast recently, and he was talking, you know, in order to help people find their why, it always starts with a childhood memory because it's such a guiding principle in life. Who we become and how we become that way.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And I think it's a really interesting thing to reflect on. I think it's that time away, right? It's that time out of the day to day. And like you said, out of the numbers and out of the data and out of conversations about specific accounts and specific situations and into something that's a little bit freer and allows everyone to be their self a little bit.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Brilliant. Brilliant. And as you'll know from and as the rest of our audience will know, as is customary, we ask a question about what's been interesting, what's been going on in your week. So, Johnny, I'm going to come to you first. And nice to see you as always. But what's been going on in your world over the last seven to 10 days?
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
It's just great to get to know people like that. And yeah, thank you for sharing that story with us, Leslie. That's fantastic. And I mean, as we go into the heart of today's conversation, really what we'd hope to get your perspective and insight on. And as Johnny said, you've already dropped a couple of insight bombs, if you like, on us and the audience, which is fantastic.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
But we know that, again, going back into that sort of looking at your career, that you're passionate about sort of customer centricity and how important that is to a business. And that's really what we're looking forward to diving into in a little bit more detail with you.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
Before that, though, it would be really great, I think, for the audience and for Johnny and I just understand a little bit more, hear a bit more about your journey so far. You know, you've held some incredibly senior roles in a really competitive market and a really competitive space. Could you just talk us through your journey so far?
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
You're never leaving. You heard it here first. I'm sure the rest of your team are thrilled to hear that, Leslie. Thank you so much for sharing that history with us. Again, some really great insights. I think there's this one key thing that jumped out to me as you were talking about SaaS. And I think it's such a... I have a background in SaaS as well and in delivery.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
And one thing that SaaS did to the market was...
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
to really throw the challenge back to the vendor when it comes to that customer centricity because it gave the end buyer options right the days of huge monolithic change that was involved in in swapping out between technologies where you had like deployed implemented you spent a whole bunch of money in data centers and stuff just to host particular technology sas kind of tore up that rule book and sort of turned the spotlight back at the vendors to say what are you going to do
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
to make sure that your client values this? What are you going to do to drive that important customer centricity? How much do you care about your clients? It's something that really resonates with me. And you see those organizations, I was in an organization going through that transition from that sort of deployable into SaaS. And it's a big transition and it's quite eye-opening.
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Episode 6 - Centricity in SaaS: Lesley Ronaldson Keeps the Customer First
So yeah, and clearly why you've been so successful since then in understanding where customer centricity comes from, why that's so important. So customer centricity, what is it? Well, I mean, Forbes defines it as the ability of an organisation to understand and meet customer needs and expectations. But what is it to you?
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Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
Over to you. You've done it. Congratulations, Johnny. As you say, that's fantastic. The most important bit and the bit that's almost always missed, right? And it's the act of building up the confidence to do that as well is quite often that blocker. And I think certainly that was the thing that resonated for me in what Thomas was talking about.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
And clearly the way that he has approached asking for referrals in the past, he's quite comfortable and he has developed this great self-talk, self-awareness and mindset around referrals. And
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
So, Johnny, what a great conversation we had with Thomas Coles. Such fantastic insight shared around the importance of asking for referrals and, well, I guess how it's helped him in developing some incredible businesses over his career. I'm curious, what was it that most stuck out for you from our conversation?
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Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
sees sees it as a why not who cares why not right but i know there's lots of listeners out there who don't necessarily think like that who haven't got that perspective and i certainly can to myself as in in that bracket in some situations and letting those opportunities pass you by and i think what i've learned and since talking to thomas of being more consciously competent or consciously aware of at least for myself has been
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
I'm going to make sure that I push myself to ask. I'm going to make sure that that is part of the conversation. And I think that blends across both getting comfortable from a mindset perspective, but also having a technique and a defined technique and a bit of a talk track really helps. Thomas talked about the importance of how we ask.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
but as part of the process of developing the how you're able to provide yourself with that confidence right it's almost to say if you say these three things this is going to be the result you're much more likely to do it and i think that's what i've found and i just think it's it's great some of the statistics that thomas shared with us around the success and the number of people who don't ask but then i think it's 80 odd percent wasn't it of where people are asked they will they will give a referral and i know johnny your example of one in 17 i mean
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Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
I'm sure that those referrals will come trickling in over the coming weeks but the reality is that you know people are out there people do want to feel that they can be helpful and they can help one another out and like you say this is an age-old way of doing business and business development but I think what was really powerful for me from our conversation with Thomas was just how big it can be just how much of a lever it can be in your business and developing your business and
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
but also how by putting in an effective technique and developing the right mindset and a productive mindset that sits behind referrals and really seeing it as a mechanism and not just a, oh, maybe I'll ask for someone to refer me once in a while, but becoming very much part of your approach, I think was really, really key for me. Stand out.
The Growth Workshop Podcast
Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
absolutely johnny and on that note i guess it's thanks again to thomas for joining us and for his sharing his insight and his perspective and how he's helped using referrals to really drive huge success in his career in his business and johnny as ever fantastic talking to you thank you so much i'm very much look forward to our next discussion absolutely matt thank you
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Episode 5 Review - How To Ask For Referrals with Thomas Coles: Your Network Is Your Net Worth
For more insights, make sure you subscribe. And if you enjoyed the journey, don't forget to leave us a review. Your feedback fuels our growth. Until next time, keep up that forward-thinking mindset. Goodbye.