Kristen Davis
Appearances
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
For some reason, we play poker at Carrie's, which I don't know how this happened. I'm like, what? Do we know how to play poker? Did anyone at that table know how to play poker? Because I definitely didn't. Many people have tried to teach me since then. It's never stuck. But, you know, clearly we're trying to play poker for some reason. I don't know whose idea this was. It's super interesting.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So we're there. We start discussing the power of female sex. Women can use their sexuality to get ahead wherever possible, but men shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of it. This is kind of one of the ideas that's in there, which is super interesting, right? At which point Charlotte says, hmm, well, what if someone just says you're charming?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
She kind of like floats this idea out there gently as she does. And it turns out that there's an artist because, you know, Charlotte's whole beginning story storyline is, in my mind, largely about her love of art and that she works in a gallery. And, you know, in the pilot, she goes to see the Ross Blechner.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
That's why she goes to the guy's apartment that she then leaves, you know, like there's art, art, art, art, right? So in this particular setting, this artist named Neville Morgan, who's definitely, definitely a fictional character, has come into her gallery and kind of gently flirted with her and invited her to come to his studio out in rural Connecticut, which you will see soon.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Hello, everybody. Welcome, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today, we are going to recap episode 105. It is called, oh my gosh, The Power of Female Sex. And it is just me. I'm recapping just me and myself today. So for the fan who wrote in on the Instagram page saying, you know, can you explain the guests at the top of the show?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And basically Miranda says to her, if he asks you to hold his paintbrush, you know, let's do him because that's the only way to use power as a woman, something like that, which is so Miranda, right? So Miranda. And obviously Samantha has a lot of other things to say, which is also interesting, um, And she's going to say more soon, too.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I literally could take just clips of Miranda and Samantha discussing female sexuality and power and play them and discuss only them for an entire podcast, I think, because it's super interesting. But at this point, Skipper shows up. Skipper, this episode made me laugh out loud so hard. He is so funny in such a short amount of time.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I mean, also in the pilot, I laughed out loud because he, you know, when he comes to the bar and then she pushes him up against the bar. It's just like a really funny dynamic to me. So Skipper comes to pick her up. He's an hour early. It's like so embarrassing for him, I think. But and Miranda's just literally could not roll her eyes more.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
There's a lot of eye rolling in this episode, which I also really, really enjoyed. So she goes off with Skipper for a date with a lot of eye rolls. Carrie tries to go to bed. And I think she has an eye mask on, which is also adorable and very her. And we see many of it as they come. And Amelita calls and wants her to get back down there to Balzac, which is funny.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So she goes and she's reading, which is great. She's reading a Martin Amis book. It's called Night Train. I'm sure that Sir Jessica has something to do with the book. Sir Jessica, I'm sure you know, is a huge, huge reader. Martin Amis, super, super smart, fascinating writer. I don't know exactly what it is. Apparently, it's a detective type of a murder mystery, which seems odd. But you know...
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I think she probably reads a lot of different things. So we go back down. This hostess wearing a different hat. She says, you're not on the list. But Amelita is there with the $12,000 bracelet that she's showing off. And she brings Carrie in, at which point she meets Gilles, who is an architect from Paris. I had such... Petrovsky type ideas while this was going on.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
It's like an early, early, early version. They have like kind of a, you know, European kind of a whirlwind thing with a handsome, you know, guy from another country. I don't know. Reminded me of that. So Carrie feels interested, though she says, you know, I see some red flags, divorced, French and uncomfortably handsome. I just want to say none of those would be red flags for me.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I mean, that's funny to me that Carrie would flag those, but not flag, you know, a lot of other things with a lot of other people. But OK, OK, let's go with it. Okay. Then there's a bunch of questions on my thing here, but I'm going to ignore them. I'm going to keep talking. All right. This is where something super fascinating happens. So Carrie is walking down Fifth Avenue with Gilles.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And it's beautiful. You can tell that the weather's starting to turn nice. We always went to film in like February, roughly. And our show would come on roughly in June. So for those first, like February, March, it could be bitter, bitter cold, but it didn't matter. We had to still wear little dresses.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So you can see everyone's kind of got like light coats in this episode, whereas in the pilot or in the first episode, when we come back, we've got like wool coats, like hardcore coats. Now we've got little light coats and the trees are in bloom. So for me, I'm like, oh, thank goodness. The trees are in bloom. It's going to be warm soon. It's going to be beautiful. So...
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
They're walking down the street and they have a very sweet conversation where she kind of confesses to him that she has like an addiction. And he looks like, oh, and she goes, you know, to beautiful shoes. It's very sweet and charming. And he's very sweet and charming to her. And then she basically says something to the effect that she is floating and she actually floats. which is so weird.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And I don't remember this. And I don't know how they did it. Like, I don't know if she was up high and the camera like comes down under her. Cause I don't think they put her on wires on fifth Avenue. Cause I feel like I would remember that. Right. But it's like a little bit of magical realism in our show there. I'm not sure why, you know? I'm not sure what the thinking was. I have no memory of it.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But I think it's kind of sweet. I mean, kind of maybe a little cheesy, but also kind of sweet. Because Carrie is so easily transported into being, like, levitating, basically. Which is adorable by this handsome Frenchman. So, also... Oh, we're going to come soon to me going to Connecticut. I'll wait to tell you.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But there's a connection between the lovely actor who plays Gilles and the lovely actor who plays my artist guy. But I'll get there in a second. So now we're at Carrie's and she makes a date with the Frenchman the next day. She's there. She's getting ready for this date. Skipper comes over because he wants to talk about Miranda.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Now, one thing that really caught my attention is that he does not get buzzed in. Now, the reason I bring this up is because there's an episode of And Just Like That where someone comes over to Carrie's apartment, also doesn't get buzzed in. And the Internet went crazy, people. The Internet was like, how could they get in there without being buzzed in? People were texting me.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
The guest is myself. So I hope that's okay with you guys. All right. This episode is so fascinating. And when I rewatched it, I was wow shocked. Didn't remember lots and lots of it. Did remember some of it. But also like when I think about the first season, part of the reason that I feel like in my mind I had felt like, no, no, no, the first season is like a mess.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
How could that character get in there without being buzzed in? I was like, wow, you guys need to relax. OK, my gosh. Now, in reality, yes, most buildings in New York have either a doorman or a buzzer or some kind of system. Right. So it's true. You can't just really walk up stairwells to people's apartment, hopefully at least. But Skipper somehow does. So he rings her little doorbell.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
She goes to the door. She answers it. She's only partly dressed for her date. She's like, come on in. I'm getting dressed. Skipper very politely comes in, sits on the bed, doesn't look at her. She's getting dressed in her closet, which is right behind her bedroom, as you guys probably know. But it is kind of adorable.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And you think to yourself, gosh, do Skipper and Carrie know each other this well that she would just go ahead getting dressed? And I also think it's kind of, this is like the bohemian Carrie. This is like Carrie, you know, we're all much younger, right? So it's like her bohemian self, like, yeah, skipper, sit there and I'll just get dressed.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Like she walks through the room in her skirt and her bra. We don't really see this later. Do you know what I'm saying? But it's interesting. It's almost like we're in college. Like I watch this episode and I'm like, it's kind of like maybe we just got out of college last year. Like we're new to the city. I don't know. I just get those vibes when I watch it.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But anyway, Skipper's there and he says to... Gary, that, you know, he's just obsessed with Miranda. It's so adorable. I mean, it really is so cute. He thinks he's addicted to her. She's all he can think about. He only gets to have sex with her in the afternoon and he doesn't shower after sex. This made me laugh so hard because Sarah Jessica is so brilliant.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
She's touching him when he says this, at which point she looks down. There's a few beats. She slowly lets go of his hand. And the next thing you see, she's washing her hands, which is so funny. Like it's just very subtly done with her really incredible comic timing. So it's pretty funny.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And the funny thing that Carrie says is she says, I really think that you should spend the night with her and not have sex. It's really important. And I'm like, wow, who is this woman? Interesting relationship advice in terms of the fact that Miranda is not going to be going for this. So I feel like, you know, maybe that's not great advice to give to Skipper because it's not going to go well.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
It's not going to go well at all. But nonetheless, she gives the advice. So then Carrie goes out on this incredible afternoon montage with Gilles. They go to literally all of my favorite places in Central Park. At one point, she's sitting on the Alice in Wonderland sculpture near the boat pond. You know, she's on the promenade in the park. I mean, it's like glorious.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And the park is looking so beautiful. She's wearing a slightly insane outfit that I think involves Possibly like a feather boa or a feather trim jacket. It's very trippy. But in general, stylistically, I feel like we're really starting to see Carrie in this episode. She has some fantastic dresses. Also, Amelita is dressed beautifully. Like, Samantha is dressed beautifully.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I can see that Pat Field is working her way in there, you know? Which is great to see. Okay, so they go on this whole... montage-y type date. And she makes out with him. And then she says something like, I have a rule that I don't sleep with a man that I haven't known more than a day. But then she goes ahead, which is kind of funny. Which I'm like, I didn't know you had any rules.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But you know, it's all very interesting. So she sleeps with the lovely Frenchman. And then she wakes up in the very, very posh hotel. And he tells her how beautiful she looks while she's sleeping, but that he can't stay because he has a plane to catch. And then he says, I'll call you.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And later on, she realizes that she doesn't have his number and he doesn't have her number, which is also really interesting. Like, how did they find each other the next day? I don't know. It's very different, obviously, in 1998 than it is now. So he leaves and he says, stay, stay, have room service. And she says, okay. And then she realizes that he's left her a note.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
She goes, oh, but he left me a note. So she opens the envelope and there is in fact a piece of paper, but there's also $1,000. Okay. I don't remember this at all, you guys. It is, wow, fascinating to think about and really, really interesting and also really pretty mortifying. Like, I think I would definitely die a million deaths if that ever happened to me. But I also feel like
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
is because we really are kind of all over the place. Like, different things happen, one of which we'll get to in a second, that are kind of unexpected and odd, and I feel like we were trying things out. And then also, when I look back now, I'm just so impressed by so many things about it.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
He was so sweet to her. And she told him about her money problems, right? I think she told him, like, I have an addiction to shoes, you know? I don't think she told him that her bills were sitting on her table and that she threw them away. But, you know, she shares. And he says something like, oh, doesn't writing pay well? She's like, no, no, it does, which is like funny also.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But, you know, it's all very interesting. So maybe he's just leaving her some money to buy some shoes. Like I didn't necessarily think that he meant it like, yes, I thought you were a prostitute. I do not think that he thought that she was a prostitute. OK, that seems weird to me. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it was just that that actor did a really good job.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So what I was going to tell you about that actor, his name is Ed Fry. He was on a soap opera in New York called Another World. As was Charles Keating, who plays my artist. And you guys, so was I on that soap opera. I had a recurring part on that soap opera right after college. And the reason I remember it is that, first of all, I used to love to watch it.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I don't know if you guys know what soap operas are, because I don't think they're really a thing anymore. But there used to be soap operas in New York and soap operas in L.A. And it was a great job, if you could get it, because you got to go to work, like, every day or whatever. You know, it was like... you know, 60 minutes a day of show, right?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, every day had an hour of that show on. And when you were little, those of us who are my age, you know, your moms might watch these things, right? So like if you got to stay home from school, you could maybe watch the soap operas with your mom. It was really dramatic.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And I remember being super fond of them and thinking like, yes, I could be on a soap opera. That would be great. That was something that I thought would be fantastic, right? When I got out of college. And I went on there and I did really, really enjoy it. Wait, are you finding it, Easton? Is it on there? What was my name? My name was Paige, you guys. Thank you. My producer, Easton, looked it up.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
My name was Paige. Don't ask me what I did. I have no idea. I just remember being there and that it was very exciting. And isn't it strange and funny that two actors from that show, Charles Keating was on that show a long time. Like he was a mainstay of another world and he was a lovely, lovely actor. So anyway, funny and strange to me to realize this when I'm looking back on it.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I don't think I realized it then.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And in this particular episode, there's a lot of really fascinating conversation about power and sex and men and women and... the power of female sexuality that I'm just so kind of amazed by and just happy that I got to be a part of it in a lot of ways.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And the other thing I think of, and I'm just going to say this at the top too, because I have my drive to the podcast studio and I always think about things on my drive in the morning before we do the podcast. And today I was thinking about the fact that I'm so grateful that I got to do this show for all of the gazillion hundred many years that I've been doing it. and that I got to grow up on it.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Okay, they're in the hotel room. Carrie calls Miranda and Samantha to come over. They come over and they order just a whole bunch of food because they're going to spend the Frenchman's money. And they have a very fascinating conversation that I literally would play for you guys if I could right now, but I don't have it. They discuss money. Money is power. Sex is power.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Money for sex is simply an exchange for power. I believe Samantha says that, I think. And then Miranda is like, no, you know, don't give away your power. You know, you want to have your own power. And they kind of overlap each other, which is also kind of unheard of in our show and something that we didn't get to do much of as the years went on. But I really love the whole conversation.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And I think that is very interesting back then. And I think it's very interesting now. And now, like, I don't know if you guys feel this way, but sometimes when I'm talking to people like, like, for instance, well, I shouldn't mention anyone. But for instance, sometimes I talk to people about dating and dating in New York, L.A., wherever.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And people talk about that younger women are into status, that they're like they might be dating the older guy for status and money or power. I think something to that effect. And I believe Blakely and I talked about this last week because people had a lot to say on the Instagram about, you know, whether men who have status and power care at all about what women think. Someone thinks they don't.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And I was like, LOL. That's what I said. Because, you know, I think everyone wants to be loved. This is what I think. But obviously, I play Charlotte, right? So, of course, I would think that. But to my mind, everyone wants to be loved, like truly deeply loved. Maybe it's more important to some people and less important to others. But even men with status and money want to be loved.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I'm just sure they do. I mean, do they probably do what they want anyway? Yes, they probably do. But I do think that people in general, men and women, want to be loved, right? But I also think...
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Sometimes the women have been socialized to think that they need to achieve a certain status and that that status might be based on what man they were dating or what that man has or drives or what his job is. And to me, I think that's kind of sad only because when that man changes his mind, what is that woman going to be left with? And I always feel like...
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Because when I look back at myself, I seem like I am just so incredibly young and unformed. I'm just so grateful that someone hired me and let me stay while I turned into a grownup because that's kind of how I feel. I feel like I grew up on this show, even though technically it's not really true. But like when I look at myself, especially in episodes like this, I'm like, I'm like a little child.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Do not depend on a man for your financial well-being. That's my personal advice in general. I know I'm getting into terrible, terrible territory at this point, but whatever. But I love these conversations because I do think it's still very, very, very interesting to talk about men and women and money and sex and power and the exchange of that.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And I love the kind of liveliness with which it is discussed in the episode. Yeah. Then, oh, Lord, oh, Lord, we cut to Charlotte and Charlotte is out in the woods in Connecticut. She's gone to see this artist who she thinks that she's going to get to represent that.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
We don't exactly say this, but when it says something like Charlotte's coup, I think it says that's because she's it's like a big get to get to be summoned by this artist out to his studio in the rural wilds of Connecticut. So she goes in and he gives this incredible little monologue about the source of all life and pleasure and beauty. That is really like, wow.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And I really enjoyed and I feel like we should like print it out and put it somewhere. He gives this very beautiful speech, wonderful. while the lights are still kind of off in his kind of barn slash studio. And Charlotte's just standing there like wide eyed, like, wow, you know, what's he going to show me?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And then he, when he goes on for a while about the, you know, the power and the source of all life, it turns out, that these are very much Georgia O'Keeffe-inspired paintings that could be flowers, but they're not. There's something that he uses a C word for that I'm not going to use, okay, because I draw the line as does Charlotte.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But that word just starts getting thrown around right and left, just right and left. And Charlotte's just like, oh, God. And then his wife comes in and she also uses the C word, which is also very, very prescient of things to come in the show. I don't know if you guys remember, like we have kind of older couples who teach sex courses and things coming.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I mean, like, oh, I had many flashes in my mind when I was watching this episode of these very interesting, you know, kind of bohemian-ish artsy types of older couples who have a lot to say. And teach us people about sexuality and free use of the C word. I'm sure you guys know what I mean, but I'm definitely not going to say it. I just don't think I can. I just don't think I can.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
It does remind me also of Pat Field, though, because the highest compliment for Pat Field is to say that something is... C-U-N-T-Y. That was like high praise, okay? But when she would kind of like shout it at you in her deep voice, it always seemed a little scary, but she really meant that as a compliment. Like that was a big, big, big compliment if you could get that compliment from Pat Field.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So basically, this artist asks Charlotte if she will pose for him. And she doesn't exactly say yes, but it kind of seems like she might say yes because the wife is there helping, which I think gives Charlotte some sense of safety. Though literally, I cannot imagine that She does this. I mean, I think she does this based on the show, but like, I don't know how that went down.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I don't understand it at all. And it also made me think of, you know, coming up soon, I think, is when Charlotte decides to look at her own private parts. Do you guys remember this? And I fall off the bed, which is one of the many times I've fallen off a bed in this show. It's always really fun to do. I did it not too long ago. It's an enjoyable thing to do. But that's coming.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I don't know what season is coming. So I guess this is like a journey for Charlotte of discovery, I guess. And for whatever reason, maybe it's because it's art. Okay. She's like, okay, for the art, I can do this for the art. And then later you're going to see the gallery showing at her gallery, which is a big deal for her, right? So she is thinking about her own career advancement.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I'm But anyway, that's my commentary on myself. But we'll get into more detail. All right. This episode is extremely fascinating. It is directed by Susan Settleman, who also directed the pilot, and written by Jenji Kohan. Do you remember back when I said I didn't know any of the writers from the first season? Not true. Jenji Kohan is amazing. She created Orange is the New Black, you guys.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Like I think that is her goal. Like I'm going to make a name for myself in the art world and this is one way to do it. And it's secret that I posed, right? So all the friends come and they're all trying to guess which painting is her. And I do vaguely remember being vaguely embarrassed and just trying to roll with it. Like just like the taxi cab, you know,
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Last episode, I'm not going to say either. You know, I'm just like, okay, they're writing for me. I've just got to, you know, seem like I'm game. I've just got to make it work somehow. I'm sure that I was using all of my actor substitutions in my mind, right? Like what kind of risky thing would I do for my job? Something like doing a crazy storyline on a show that I really want to be on, right?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Like I'm probably using the very thing that's happening in life for my substitution, right? for Charlotte's storyline. It's very similar because I'm just like, I need storyline. I'm going to go with this slightly insane thing that they're writing for me because I'm just really, really happy that they're writing something for me. Okay, cut back to the show. We're back at Pretend Balthazar.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Samantha and Carrie show up again and the hostess is there with a different hat, you guys. It's amazing. They think they're going to get in because Carrie has already been there. But no, no, no, it is not easy. Amelita is there. She invites Carrie to come to the Venice Film Festival with a whole new group of handsome men who are this time from Italy.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But one of them puts his arm around Carrie and then kind of the arm slips down in a way. Carrie does not like this. So I was really pleased to see this. Like Carrie kind of, you know, getting her...
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
sense of self there and realizing no you know she's gonna have her morals her voiceover says like you know I realize like there's a line between what I'm willing to do and what I'm not willing to do so then she goes to the bathroom she politely excuses herself she goes to the bathroom the hostess is there and she looks all vulnerable and she needs a tampon and it's so cute because Carrie's like yes
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
yes, I have one. And then after that, they always get into the restaurant. So it's good. It's like women on each other's side. You know, it all works out. Then at the very end, we are at the art gallery. The friends are there. Unfortunately, Stanford's not there. I was really hoping this was the art gallery scene where Stanford was there, but I think that's coming later. But the girls are there.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Everyone's trying to guess which one of these paintings might be Charlotte. And I tell Carrie in her ear, which one is me? And she tells us, I think, Samantha. And I'm just like, oh, my God, this is so mortifying. But, you know, I'm standing there and I'm looking pleased and I'm giggly, whatever. And I think a lot of it was like just being game, you know? Like you're in this show.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
The show doesn't know what it is. We're figuring it out together. And I feel like everyone...
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
most definitely Sarah Jessica because she's talking to that camera again you know she's floating up in the air she's like we're doing so much stuff you know it's very interesting to me now one of my favorite things just from a personal personal note is that in that art gallery Sarah is wearing this kind of kimono robe that has like paillettes on it this is a robe that still exists in Carrie's closet in and just like that and I feel like I just saw it like a couple weeks ago
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So for me, it was adorable because I thought it was only a robe that she wore at home. But no, she wears this out to the art gallery, which again is bohemian Carrie is creative Carrie. I love it. We're seeing her stylistically, you know, come into her own in so many ways. So. I think that this episode is so interesting.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And this is when I'm like, could I just have a forum of fans that I could talk to about this? Because I would love to hear your guys' thoughts. Like, what do you think about female sex and the different forms it takes in the episode? Like, you know, Miranda sees, you know, she's got the power over Skipper, right? And Skipper says, oh, I'm addicted to her, you know, obviously.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And then, you know, Charlotte, you know, willing to be painted by this artist so that she can advance her thing. Amelita's, her whole way of life is like, you know, this is what I do. I have these, you know, handsome rich men and I go where they want and I have beautiful jewelry and I have a wonderful life and isn't it great? And, you know, it seems to be working great for her, right? Is that cool?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
What do you think? And then, like, Carrie, you know, has to kind of decide, do I want to be that or do I want to not be that and kind of, you know, try to afford my shoes but not be able to and get my credit card cut up? Like it's to me a very interesting kind of conundrum that many, many people go through. Men and women really, you know, honestly. And I think it's still going on.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Can you believe? Also, Weeds. And she wrote an episode in our very first season called The Power of Female Sex. So clearly she was already onto her themes. And those themes are very much in play in our episode, for better or for worse. But they are in play. in a very interesting way. We also have a different DP.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So I'm super curious what you guys think. And I'm really hoping that maybe you'll tell me. I also want to think—this is reminding me a little bit of one comment that we got from last week, which is—
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Someone went on and said, when we were talking about the Valley of the 20-something guys, and they said that when Blakely and I were talking about the roommate and how that was a deal breaker, which I think is what we said. We said something like that. And they were like, oh, you know, you guys ruined it for us. And I wish I knew how old these people were who commented, right?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Because I want to know, are they in their 20s, right? Because this is interesting. Things have changed for sure. And there's a lot of people... who don't, you know, get to live by themselves because the economy is wacky and, you know, COVID happened and so many things happened, right? So I think probably a lot of people do have roommates that wouldn't probably have had roommates in 1998, right?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And the whole idea of Valley of the 20-something Guys is Timothy Olyphant's character and his friends are in their 20s, right? And Carrie and her friends were in our 30s. So there is supposed to be this generational gap happening in the episode, right? And it seems like we possibly touched on it too much that made people feel upset about it, I guess.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And I think that's a very interesting thing to talk about now because I still think it's true, probably even more true, that there are these generational gaps. And that's part of the reason I wanted to do the podcast is because we've been so lucky to get to do the show since 1998, 1997, which is a very long time, obviously. We've seen so many social trends and changes and
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
you know, the way people talk about sex and relationships and dating apps. I mean, so many different things have changed. But yet still, there do seem to be these gaps between generations where maybe there's misunderstandings. And I'm super interested by that. And certainly what happens when you're trying to date across those gaps is also really interesting.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So write some more on the Instagram, you guys. Tell me your thoughts. You can always write in on the podcast page, too, because that's cool. Thank you for being with me. We are going to have a really fun guest next week. I can't wait. And thank you for joining me for Are You at Charlotte? Bye.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So in case, I don't know how much you guys are interested in the technical stuff, but to me, it's interesting. So our very first pilot, we had Stuart Dreiberg. Amazing, amazing DP. It's very dark. Then we have Maurice Alberti, French. Very, very, very cool shots. Those were the first two episodes.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Now we have Michael Barrow, who we had for a while, and I had forgotten about him, but I remembered him when I watched this, partly because, The show is very dark for a season, like physically dark, you know, not dark thematically, but physically dark. Like we're out at night a lot. It's very dark.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Also in the technical realm, we used to film on something called Super 16, which is kind of hysterical. if you know anything about film and whatnot, in that now in the age of, you know, digital high def, it's like so shocking that we filmed an entire TV show on Super 16. But what was great about it was that it gave like this kind of gritty softness.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So like when we're out at night and we're on the street, the car lights kind of flare in a certain way. Like it has a very kind of, to me, old fashioned feeling that I really love. And I thought that that was very much in evidence in this episode, as well as some just generally dark clubs and or restaurants that may or may not be real or sets. I'm really not sure. I need to find out.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Okay, so the interesting thing about this, there's so many interesting things, but it begins... With Samantha and Carrie waiting 45 minutes for a table at something that we're calling Balzac, but it's really standing in for Balthazar, which opened that year. Still a fantastic restaurant in New York that we go to frequently and we love. But at the time, it was a very, very hard reservation to get.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And New York is really still like this. Like we were in New York filming and just like that when all the COVID things were letting go, you know, lifting and you could go out to eat again and I was trying to get my kids and I was just like, oh, hey, let's go to this restaurant. They would not let me in. And not only that, they were so mean. OK, they were so mean. And I was like, why? Why so mean?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Like, we're just just back out in the world. Like, then I remembered, oh, we're in New York. This is how it is. It's not, it's never going to change. So anyway, there's so many things I love about this whole Balthazar slash Balzac, you know, fill in. One is the hostess. So I don't know if you guys follow the hat saga on Sex and the City and the movies and then just like that, but.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Sir Jessica and our costume designers love hats. Michael Patrick King cannot stand hats. So whenever we wear a hat, we have to ask permission. And I personally have had a few hats where I'm wearing like a, one's coming up in a couple episodes from now. I've got a big, you know, wide brimmed hat on, but they can't see your face and they can't light your face. So then it's a whole drama.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And then the DP is like, oh, you've got to push it back. And then you're wearing a hat in this very weird angle. And I'm sure everyone who's watching is like, why is she wearing her hat like that? That's not how you wear that hat. Well, we're wearing it because you can't see our face under it, right?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So to me, this hostess, this beautiful woman who plays the hostess, who has to be kind of aloof and mean for most of the episode to both Carrie and Samantha, she has assorted various small hats perched on her head, which really makes me laugh. And she pulled it off beautifully. And I cannot wait to talk to Molly Rogers, our costume designer, who was from the beginning with us from the beginning.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I believe she's listed as costume supervisor in the first season. So I can't wait to talk to her about the hostess in the hats. But they're there. They're waiting for this hostess to let them in. She will not let them in. Samantha says, this is when we start with the power topic.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Samantha points out that if the hostess was a man, they would be sending over free drinks and obviously already be at their table. Which is interesting, right? And I think to myself, like, hmm, this is interesting and I have to mull this over. This is one of those ones where I really think, like, is this still all the same or is it not? And I'm not sure and I'm dying to hear what you guys think.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I think a lot of it is still at play. But I also think that sometimes it's more like... Out in the open. You know, it's not so underneath everything. I feel like people are more open about it. So they leave. Carrie's really hungry. And Carrie's really like just rolling her eyes a lot at Samantha. Like, I'm so hungry. I've got to get out of here. She wants to go to a Thai restaurant.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Samantha's like, no. So then Carrie decides that the way to cheer herself up is to go to Dolce & Gabbana. and try to buy some beautiful fluffy shoes. Well, guess what? They decline her credit card. And not only that, they chop it in half, which is super mortifying. Now, one of my producers for the podcast said to me like, can you believe Carrie's not good with money?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I'm like, yes, I can believe Carrie's not good with money. This is a through line and it's going to be true forever. Okay. And the reason that Carrie's not good with money in my mind is that Carrie is a creative. And this is a fundamental thing about Carrie that I think people forget. where they're like, why would she wear that? Well, she's wearing that because she's a creative being.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
She's a writer. Her whole existence is a creative endeavor. She's researching things. She's thinking about things. She's wondering about things. As you guys know, she's investigating things. She's creative, right? That's what she is. She's not Sarah Jessica Parker. who's creative but also very practical. She's Carrie. Carrie's not practical. No, no, no, no. She loves shoes.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
You know, as you guys know who's seen the show, this will come to be a big point later on when Carrie cannot buy her apartment because she has spent all of her income on shoes, and she comes to Charlotte and asks for her engagement ring, which I know is a very hotly contested episode, and we will get there, and I have a lot to say. But in the meantime...
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Here we are seeing the very first signs of it in episode one. She tries to buy these shoes. They cut her credit card really meanly in half. I don't even know if they do this anymore. But I do remember being afraid that it would happen to me in life, right? And I don't think it ever did, but I remember being afraid. At which point she runs into this fantastic character named Amelita.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Now, many people have asked me about Amelita ever since this episode aired many hundred years ago. And I'm always like, I'm Alita. I'm Alita. I only vaguely remember her. Watching this, I was so impressed by Carol Davis. No relation to me that I know of, though we could be sisters, but I don't think we are. But she's incredible. So incredible. Yeah.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So Amelita says, I'm going to buy your shoes for you because you are like a sister to me. And Carrie's like, I never see her. And I've only met her a few times. This is in voiceover, of course. It's all very interesting. But Amelita, to me, seems like she's got really good vibes, you know, and she's just like, I will buy this for you. And here's my boyfriend, my rich boyfriend.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And he has a tiny, tiny you know what, but he knows how to use it. At which point I'm just like, oh, my God, we're so funny. Our show is so funny. And I forget all these things, you know, back in the old days. We used to say all this stuff. So she buys her these shoes. Carrie also tells the camera that Amelita is Euro trash. I don't know if we say this anymore, you guys.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
I don't know if it's okay to say this. I feel like maybe it's not. But Carrie says it without... Without judgment, this is another moment where I really think through this whole episode, Carrie is remarkably judgment free up until like the end of this episode. And then you see a little bit of her going like, no, thank goodness. But anyway, we'll get to that. So.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Then Carrie, Carrie lets her buy her shoes. Now look, I think the reason that Carrie lets her buy the shoes is because she's avoiding like, you know, complete and total embarrassment of having her credit card card up. And she really is fully addicted to shoes as she later tells someone. And so for her in a bad spot, this is, you know, like a little hit of dopamine, right?
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
Like she's getting some shoes, she's getting some new shoes. She's happy. So of course she's going to let her buy the shoes for her. Yes. Do I think that's a little weird? Sure. Would I let someone that I barely know buy me shoes? Probably no, probably no, no, probably no. But you know, this is Carrie and she's easy going, especially back, back in, you know, 1998. We're way easygoing. Okay.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
So then, oh, this is so good. Then we go home with Gary and she has a stack of bills and she throws them in her trash, which again, another one of our producers was like, can you believe she did that? I'm like, yes, I can. She writes a column for a New York City newspaper. Right? She's trying to go out, buy fantastic shoes and clothes. She doesn't have money for her bills.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
This is how we meet Carrie. You know, she's evolved a lot. But this is who she was in the beginning for sure. So I was not surprised at all. And we do see that her address on the envelope is 243 East 73rd Street, which I do believe is accurate in terms of the book that Candace wrote and where the coffee shop was that we used to see. But we're no longer seeing the coffee shop.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
We're slowly moving into... You know, we haven't had the stoop yet. We're getting the different elements of cariness together. This particular episode, we see her in her closet, which is really fun for me, at least. It was really fun to see her in her closet and her bathrooms in the back. And we had so many scenes in those areas. It was a good time to see it. OK, so we're in her apartment.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
She's throwing out her bills. Very adorable. She says, you know, the voiceover is back and looking at the camera is back, which is interesting because I thought that we already lost it. But no, it's back. So, again, this is something that I remember from the beginning. It seemed week to week that we didn't really know who we were as a show.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
You know, so sometimes when you're watching these episodes, things flip back and forth and you're like, oh, right. We didn't know. Like, was it gone? Was the talking to camera gone? No, no, it's not gone. It's back. So whatever was going on with that is interesting. So she says in her voiceover that she envies Amelita.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
And then she says to the camera, where is the line between a professional girlfriend and professional? So this is interesting to me because I feel like in 2025, I feel like the idea of people who engage in work for sex, sex for work, sex workers, it's just a lot more... Freedom to talk about freedom to to like take them seriously, not to judge them.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
You know, we have this movie, Nora, who's up for an Oscar, may win an Oscar very openly about a young woman trying to live in New York. engaging in stripping and sex work. We've got Pink Pony Club by Chapel Roan, very openly about, you know, having fun up on the stage in our high heels. I mean, I feel like we've come a long way.
Are You A Charlotte?
Is That You In Painting Number Three?... (S1E5 "The Power of Female Sex")
But the interesting thing that I think here, back in our show in 1998, is that Carrie's talking about it. She's not really judging it. She's just discussing, like, is there a line between professional girlfriend and professional? Is there not? You know, where do I fall on that line? Where do I want to fall? I love that. And I think we're going to have so many interesting conversations.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 20: 20/20
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 20: 20/20
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 20: 20/20
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 20: 20/20
I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 22: The Girls with the Episode Twenty Two
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 22: The Girls with the Episode Twenty Two
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 22: The Girls with the Episode Twenty Two
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 22: The Girls with the Episode Twenty Two
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 22: The Girls with the Episode Twenty Two
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
456 - True & Provable
This is exactly right. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. I remember some things about shooting the pilot. Right. I have some memories I can fill you in. That you're going to fill me in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
456 - True & Provable
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
456 - True & Provable
Elvis, do you want a cookie?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
456 - True & Provable
It's April 2020. A woman announces on Facebook that she has COVID and won't be seeking medical attention.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
456 - True & Provable
I didn't want to be talked out of this plan.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
456 - True & Provable
Then she disappears. Anyone else think this is strange?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
456 - True & Provable
Listen to What Happened to Talena Zarr on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
455 - Time Math
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. I remember some things about shooting the pilot. Right. I have some memories I can fill you in. And that you're going to fill me in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
455 - Time Math
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
This is exactly right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Nicole has been selling merch for us and with us since we started basically like since right after we started doing merch.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And I went to her and I was like, would you do this thing? Yeah. I just think it would be funny. And she was like, okay. Whatever. Because she's like always the funniest person in our staff meetings. And then the day we went to do it, Allison and I went to like go over the scripts with her or say, is there anything you want to change or do or anything?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And then I was like, you took theater in high school. And she goes, no, I didn't. And then I was like, oh, okay. Well, tell me if you want to not do this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Right? Oh, I'm so glad you liked it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
You know what? Check and done.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
It's like the old pictures I used to love to surprise you with.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
To My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hardstark. That's Karen Kilgariff. This is a video as well as an audio podcast.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
You know this one? I know the overall... I know the very white child from a white school version of this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Yes. But also, like, so you have to get up, what, at 6 in the morning to get to school on time? Seriously. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
It's called a power move in podcasting. If you've never seen it, get ready. Podcasting. See it now. I love people who are freaked out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I mean, but when you were saying that thing of an all white school and an all black school coming together to have like that seemed very advanced. And that's also in Mississippi. Yeah. So it's like obviously there's pockets of people who are really especially the white community. People who knew that change had to happen.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Very valid question to this day. It sure is.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I simply need you to know. One must.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
That makes me think of leading up to the election, there was a video about this woman who made a T-shirt with the receipt from when she voted the first time, I think, when she was 18. Did you see that video? A black woman who's, you know, older now, obviously. And it was the $2 receipt for her having to pay a poll tax, which all black... people had to pay when they were voting.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
That's what a poll tax is. Holy shit. When was this? When did she vote originally? Right. It was... I can't remember. I think she said it was like in the late 40s or so. Oh, my God. Because I would guess that woman was somewhere in her 70s or 80s, but I couldn't guess. But she did a whole speech on it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And I was like, I've heard the phrase poll tax for so long, and I didn't know that that's what it was. Oh, that's fucking wild. And that kind of like, yeah, figuring out all these ways to restrict people or just get in people's way. Right. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I know. Also, that's just like, again, you're just going about your day. You have other stuff to do. Yeah. And then you have that kind of like, just think of like the last time somebody yelled at you in a parking lot. Terrifying. Where you were like shaken and whatever. And it's like that being brought to black people's door multiple times a day. Constantly, yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Well, first of all, I just want to say that the website Blue Sky is a new social media website that has taken the place of Twitter that died long ago. And so because I'm on there, I opened it up in the middle of like a meeting or something. And there's an account called Carmageddon 13 who's there to tell me some of the most exciting news I've ever seen and that it's we're on jeopardy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Or, you know, and back then, oh, you try to take any kind of action.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I mean, just the idea that it was such a strong case, so clear that actually it made these completely rigged white juries go, hold on a second. How are we going to do this? And we're hung.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I've never heard of this, like... This feels like I'm trying to rack my brain of like, have I seen like a movie about this or something?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Texas, Canada?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And then basically, we were... Us and You're Wrong About... Yeah. Provided the question... Part of a clue or the answer part of the clue on Jeopardy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
brave people that are not told you know and they're like they're crucial stories they're it's the details of how that kind of work gets done and pushed forward and it's by people who truly knew they were putting their life on the line and did it they didn't back away from the risk and they didn't back away from like all of that fear they had to just they kind of like lived in that fear and powered through it anyway and that's the piece of it that's
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
It's so incredible. It's like he didn't stay home from work. He didn't. He just kept going, knowing that he had to. Right, right. It reminds me of when they started the desegregation, Ruby Bridges. The five-year-old girl who had to, the first little black girl who went to a white school. Yeah. She's a baby. I mean, we've talked about this before.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I recently saw a picture. I know. And it was like her now. Oh, my God. And her from then. And it just like, they made a five-year-old do that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
being killed it's like it's just fucking insane it's crazy yeah yeah amazing job thank you thank you I wanted to not do that shitty so yeah no you did it great and also just like yeah I love that idea of like we don't know this let's tell each other so that we know it and other people know it totally
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Well, we're going to take a turn, but it isn't really the turn away that we usually do, which I kind of love. We're going to turn toward a different direction. Okay. But also serious. Okay. Because December is HIV AIDS Awareness Month. Right. If you weren't there, many of our listeners were not.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But in the spring of 1980, the national news began to report on a mysterious fatal disease that was spreading across the country, almost entirely in the gay male population. Almost immediately, those who fell ill were treated like pariahs in the healthcare system. Being diagnosed with AIDS was seen as a death sentence, stoking fear, paranoia, and intense homophobia.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
The AIDS crisis in America and the way it was handled by the Reagan administration and by some average Americans themselves will always be a stain on our history. But like most of the stories that we tell each other, There is a glimmer of light in this story because at San Francisco General Hospital. Sorry, I can't start it already. I just feel so proud. Yeah, I was going to say that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Because at San Francisco General Hospital, a young gay male nurse from Florida will spearhead the first dedicated AIDS ward in the United States. Oh, my God. This is incredible. And when he does, a staff of heroic nurses and doctors will defy fears and cultural taboos to provide compassionate care to those patients dying from AIDS.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And that simple, generous act of compassion will ultimately prove to be revolutionary. This is the story of nurse Cliff Morrison and San Francisco General's Ward 5B. Shit.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I knew like a little, but again, it's that same thing where you're kind of like, I know a little. There's an incredible documentary called 5B that came out in 2018. So definitely watch that. And then there's also interviews with and articles by Cliff Morrison and fellow 5B nurse Allison Moad. Those are the two main sources and the rest of the sources are in our show notes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Okay, so first I'm going to tell you about Cliff Morrison. He was born in the early 50s in Live Oak, Florida, which is a small town on the state's panhandle. And by his own description, Cliff says it's, quote, about 90 miles from anywhere. So Cliff grows up in poverty. No one in his family ever graduated high school, let alone college. They also didn't own a car, a telephone, or a TV.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
He's like, enough. So when did he start? Like, yeah. That's fucked up. Serious. So he heads down to a small local hospital and he asks if he can please work there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Yeah. So he gets a job in the housekeeping department. He mops the floors. He takes out the trash. But after a while, he realizes he wants to care for the patients. Before long, Cliff is promoted to an orderly position, a job he holds throughout high school. And after he graduates, he goes to nursing school in Jacksonville. Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So my family has been watching Jeopardy every single night at 7 o'clock. Since I can remember truly, I think I've told you multiple times the story of me watching it at 4.30 and then again at 7 and pretending I knew all the answers. And my mom was like, are you kidding me? She was getting so excited I finally had to bust myself. I think I was 14 when I did it. So for that long.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I'm going to go...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So that's, of course, the most anyone in his family has ever made. That's incredible. But more than that, Cliff has really found his calling. He says, quote, I realized I really liked being a nurse. It's where I felt the most comfortable. I'd always been told that I was a caring person, so it made sense that I gravitated toward that profession. So Cliff bounces from Jacksonville down to Miami.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
There's a thriving gay community there. Down there, there were lots of job opportunities, but it's the 70s. And at this time, down in South Florida, there's a woman named Anita Bryant who's decided to wage war on the LGBTQ community of South Florida. She and her cronies are lobbying hard to have a recently passed ordinance that outlaws discrimination based on sexual orientation repealed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Repealed? They want to get rid of that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Hmm. Let's repeal rights, huh? How's your body feel right now? It feels like I want to get a hysterectomy. A little second class? Yeah. Anita Bryant, I believe there's... Her getting pied? Yes. Yes. If I'm right, there's an amazing video because she did it. It's someone who did it. That's like she was also she wasn't she was a performer. She was like a singer and stuff.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And she was kind of like back. It was like back in those Perry Como days where people were very like clean cut. It was all about like late 60s, kind of like all American clean cut, whatever. And so she was kind of like popular in a way. Yeah. And then suddenly she was like, but you know who I really want to oppress is these gays. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And so, yeah, there is that legendary video where she gets pied while she's doing, I think, a press conference. Yeah. Yeah, it was by gay activist Tom Higgins. Yeah, you can look that video up on YouTube. It's pretty great. But also it's like at the time, it's like, how dare you? And it's like, it's pie. You're an asshole. And you got a pie in the face. You deserve it. So basically...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
those bigoted activists drum up such an increasingly hostile energy in south florida which has up until then been a safe haven for gay people that cliff decides it's time for him to move to california he's always wanted to spend time in the bay area and of course san francisco has become like the mecca for gay people to escape to from all around the country so in 1979 cliff moves there and takes a job at san francisco general
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
which is at the time a teaching hospital for University of California at San Francisco. So what's funny is Cliff doesn't actually take to the city right away. It's cold. It's foggy. The weather, there's not a lot of sunshine in San Francisco. So he misses the Florida sunshine.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
He's also not clicking with the gay community like so many places that can become emblematic of like a movement or a subculture. San Francisco is filled with transplants. So he feels like it's a little artificial. So he figures he'll stay for a year or two and then he's going to go try somewhere else. But all that changes in 1981.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
The murmurings of a strange, deadly illness that's largely affecting young gay men begin to circulate. So Cliff and his colleagues at SF General start seeing some of these patients come into their ICU. They're all suffering from the same symptoms. They've lost weight. They have fevers that last for days. They have lesions on their skin, swollen lymph nodes. Some of them are confused and delirious.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And they almost always die from this illness. The news goes from calling it a mystery illness to saying it's a new type of cancer affecting gay men because they just have no idea. By 1982, and I have told you this story. I told you the last time we talked about the AIDS crisis.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
My family's been watching Jeopardy at 7. What's hilarious is, so I see that message. We all send it to each other. We're all freaking out. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to go downstairs, watch it with my dad, and then there's going to be this reveal, and it's going to be incredible. Well, we were preempted by Monday Night Football. Yeah. Happens to the best of us. You know, happens to the best.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
But this happening in 1981, I absolutely remember where I was sitting in the living room watching the 6 o'clock news with my mom, or if it was my mom was there. It was the 7 o'clock news. And Dave McElhatton on the Channel 2 News and the little like chyron next to him just said mystery illness. And he basically was like a mystery illnesses in San Francisco. Terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. Really strange.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So by 1982, this mystery illness is given a name, Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome, or AIDS for short. Cases are being identified throughout the country now with many, but most importantly, not all of the victims being gay men. So even the best medical experts and the most decorated doctors can't fully explain why these patients are getting sick.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And that uncertainty begins to fuel a widespread panic and blatant homophobia. According to the website Hospital Watchdog, they say, quote, some men suspected as gay and infected with HIV were kicked out of their apartments and fired from their jobs. In one instance, their desks were taken to a parking lot and set on fire.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Insurance companies were screening out gay men to deny coverage by sending out surveys asking if they worked as a florist or a hairdresser. Holy shit. Yeah. In actuality, AIDS is affecting people from all walks of life, but it's an extremely hostile time for members of the gay community. It's a hostile time anyway. Right. And then this comes along. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Then it's like they almost feel justified in their homophobia. Those bigots. Yeah. Yeah. So even within the medical establishment and even in progressive cities like San Francisco, some nurses, doctors, and orderlies are reluctant or they outright refuse to treat patients with certain symptoms or if they suspect that they're gay.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And when those patients are admitted, they are usually isolated and treated more like walking biohazards than as human beings. Actually, literal hazard signs are sometimes plastered on their hospital room doors. Meals are left in the hallway outside of their rooms. Basic care like changing their bed sheets or cleaning them goes undone out of this fear of being infected.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And Cliff is seeing all of this as a nurse. And then one day it hits even closer to home. He comes back from work to find his roommate Wayne collapsed on the hallway floor. Cliff says, quote, we had been talking a lot about the disease because it was just starting to make headlines. And I had a feeling that's what he had.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So for days, Cliff does everything he can to care for Wayne at home, but Wayne's condition doesn't improve. And it's not easy to find a hospital that can or will admit him, which is such a weird thing to think of. The place you're supposed to go when you're sick.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Or we're just going to, to protect ourselves, we're going to not admit you. Right. Sounds so familiar. Yeah. So Cliff reaches out to his colleagues at San Francisco General. He's finally given the name of a doctor who works out of a private hospital that will take Wayne.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And there Cliff watches as his friend is rushed into an isolation room, surrounded by fearful staff, then shut away and left alone. When Cliff tries to go into that room, the medical staff stops him. They warn him that it's too dangerous, but Cliff doesn't hesitate. He tells them, quote, I'm a nurse and I've been taking care of Wayne for days. Whatever he's got, I probably have.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And he goes into the room. So at the time, it's very common for medical staff treating these patients to wear head-to-toe PPE, including what's casually referred to as a space suit, which are those heavy-duty biohazard suits that we've all seen in movies. So...
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
The staff who have been wearing suits like that, if not the heavy duty PPE, is just staring at Cliff in shock and horror as he walks into Wayne's room without any protective gear on at all. Cliff later says, I didn't want to wear a space suit to take care of my friend.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So perfect. And later on, I said to my dad, like at the end of the night, I said to my dad, hey, so, you know, are you proud that I was on your favorite TV show? And he goes, you were on Monday Night Football. Wait, did it play after? Yeah, it was preempted until like 10.30 or some crazy thing.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So seeing these patients at San Francisco General, as well as his roommate, being neglected, isolated and denied compassion in the final days of their lives infuriates Cliff. The fact is, at this time, most patients with AIDS do not survive. And Cliff sees that their deaths are neither peaceful nor dignified.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
They're not allowed in or like their friends don't know that this is the part that they're in. Like they're just not. It's like everyone's freaking out.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So these patients die in pain, surrounded by fear and often alone. And this the diagnosis of this disease cuts them off from care in a time that they need it the most. So Cliff decides he needs to change this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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He starts by volunteering with the Shanty Project, which is a San Francisco-based nonprofit that provides people with terminal illnesses compassion and human connection as they die. By the early 80s, many of the people they work with are sick members of the gay community. So for Cliff, this volunteer work becomes an invaluable education in palliative care. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Back at San Francisco General, word spreads quickly about his work with the Shanty Project. And before long, doctors, nurses, and even patients are coming to Cliff for guidance. He's suddenly a very helpful middleman who can see, share, and translate both the clinical and patient perspectives in a time that's incredibly confusing and incredibly scary. Wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
But as more people get sick, the hysteria is dialed up and the misinformation only increases. Meanwhile, ICU beds at San Francisco General hit capacity as hundreds of patients being diagnosed with AIDS all spread throughout different wards. The quality of their care is entirely inconsistent depending on their respective nurses and doctors' mindsets.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So you get a bad area of the hospital, you get a bad doctor or nurse response. Yeah. The idea of that is like we take it for granted. I mean, anybody that has insurance and that gets to even go to the hospital takes it for granted. I definitely do. But then this idea that you would get a thing that would suddenly turn those people against you. They have hatred towards you. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And they're supposed to be treating you while you're actively dying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Yeah. So the hospital administrators quickly realize that they're in over their heads. And again, they turn to Cliff for help. They want him to take on a clinical coordinator job so they can oversee these patients with AIDS in the hospital. And Cliff accepts. There's immediately a plan to quarantine these patients in a separate part of the hospital. But at first, Cliff hates this idea.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
He compares it to being sent to a leper colony. But then the more he thinks about it, the more practical a separate ward feels. They'll have dedicated space and an opportunity to provide a more tailored facility. So he agrees. He's given an area of the hospital on the fifth floor used as a sleeping area for resident doctors known as Ward 5B and an outpatient clinic called Ward 86.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Still played, but not the same. Football? You guys? Just so perfect that I would be preempted by Monday Night Football.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
But Cliff realizes he's going to need money to set up and fund this new dedicated clinic. And that's when Dr. Mervyn Silverman, San Francisco's director of public health at the time, invites Cliff to meet with Mayor Dianne Feinstein. Cliff remembers, quote, we went to her office and sat down and she said, we just so happened to have several million dollars surplus in the budget this year.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
If you promise me that you will spend this money appropriately, I will give you some of the surplus and you do what you need to do. Just make sure you do it right. Wow. When does that fucking happen? I mean, for real, especially considering at this time, 1981, President Ronald Reagan hasn't even addressed this public health issue, a very pressing public health issue to the country at all.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
He has not acknowledged it. Yeah. And he won't until 1985. Holy shit. And even then in 1985, he just very briefly mentions AIDS in a press conference, just like in passing. Yeah. And then after that, it's two more years before he addresses this national health crisis in any significant way. It takes them six years to talk about AIDS. As people are actively dying. Yes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
And by then, nearly 47,000 Americans have been infected with HIV or have died from AIDS. Wow. Cliff adds, quote, as I look back on that meeting with Dianne Feinstein, that was one of the more wonderful moments of my career. That's the first time I'd actually seen a politician show true leadership. So now that he has both the space and funding, Cliff needs nurses and doctors to work in Ward 5B.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
So he posts notices about the forthcoming AIDS ward throughout the hospital. He ends up hiring 11 nurses, as well as a team of social workers, physical therapists, dieticians, chaplains, and occupational therapists. And for him, staffing 5B isn't just about finding qualified medical professionals. It's about hiring people who genuinely want to work there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
He knows that'll be the key to improving this poor quality of care that everyone is seeing everywhere else. Right. But Cliff insists on being honest about the risks of this work. He has worked with enough AIDS patients without contracting the illness himself to know that that's possible. But generally, information is sparse, and he needs his staff to be informed and accepting of the unknowns.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Yeah. Oh. Well, because I had to send that post to my sister because she lost her mind. She was just like, oh, my God. Yeah, I did, too.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
One 5B staffer later recalls an early conversation with Cliff where he says, quote, go home and talk to your significant others because we don't know. We can't tell you that you're not going to get this disease.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Yeah. How brave. And then Cliff talks to the patients themselves to find out what they want out of this ward. He'll later say, quote, the first thing I heard was I want to feel like I'm being treated like a person.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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There's a tear in that eye right there.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Well, it's just, look, I lost a friend to AIDS who was 21 years old. Oh, my God. And it was a big surprise. And it was, he was my friend from sixth grade. Wow. And I loved him very much, Ken Mason. And to see him, he... Thank God had a very loving, very accepting family who took care of him right till the end. And so I got to go see him basically in his at his mom's house.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And it was one of the worst things I've ever experienced to kind of see that he was ravaged. I mean, he was just like. He was emaciated. And it's so easy to think about all of these men who in the 70s were like, oh, you know, everyone's encouraged to come out and we need to fight for our rights. And we need to like be the people who we are.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then suddenly this happens and it enables these bigots to talk about racism. gay people, gay men, like you got what you deserved.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's so disgusting. It's just like, yeah, everything about it is so horrifying. And then the leadership that intentionally didn't help.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Or a decent human being.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Like somebody that would look at that and say, it's insane, but here's what's beautiful. Basically, that's where Cliff comes in. He goes, we'll do it ourselves and we'll do it for each other. And there's a lot of lesbian women and a lot of female nurses who went in. We're like, we will take care of them.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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We'll do this and we'll take these risks because this is we cannot just let these men die to protect ourselves. That is not the point of being a nurse or a doctor. And they weren't the only ones who felt that way. Thank God. And because of that. Then essentially after being able to give that care, they proved that you can give that care. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And basically they went out there and they were the first line, first responders to go, look, we did it and we didn't catch it. Therefore, you need to do it. Yeah. The idea that they had to do that, though. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Thank you, Jeopardy. Thank you, Jeopardy writers. Yeah. That was cool to be included. It really was. Congratulations. You're wrong about. Yeah. I hope you feel the same. Yeah, that was very exciting. I know. How else was your Thanksgiving break? Good.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And the in-between of all the people that died alone and isolated and it's just, it's disgusting and horrible. So... When Cliff asked those patients what they wanted out of the ward, he said, quote, Yeah. Basics. The very, the lowest bar. Yeah. So the virus that causes AIDS, HIV, is finally identified in May of 1983. And two months later, in July of 1983, Ward 5B officially opens to the public.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's helmed by head nurse Allison Moed, who oversees a team of 11 dedicated nurses. Some of these nurses are straight, some are gay. All of them have agreed to put aside their personal fears surrounding AIDS to offer compassionate care to their sick and vulnerable patients. Allison later says, quote, I was enthralled by this idea of love for your fellow being.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
This was a confluence of nurses, of people who wanted to take care of this population that had been stigmatized, discriminated against, not cared for during a period of their lives where their lives were ending. Professionally, how do we care for them? Caring is what we were about. Wow. Imagine that. So 5B is unlike anywhere else at the time.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Here, the doctors and nurses don't speak down to their patients, and they certainly don't judge them. In fact, patients are treated as a member of their own care team, and they're involved in all the conversations about their treatment. 5B is one of the only units in the U.S. where people can visit outside of set visiting hours. Oh, wow.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And those visitors don't have to be literal family members in the biological sense. They can be members of the patient's chosen family. The staff even sneaks in their patient's pets when they can. Also on 5B, staffers don't use the same full body PPE many other facilities across the country do. Instead, they wear protective equipment when necessary.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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The 5B staff use common sense precautions that keep the patient's dignity in mind, remembering the value of human touch and connection. Cliff says, quote, we knew by now that AIDS was not transmitted casually. I had no qualms about climbing onto the bed with my patients to hold them. That had never been done before.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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As a nurse, you might touch someone's hand, but you would never take them in your arms. Oh, my God. The image. Yeah. This is a huge deal. For a sense of timeline, this is five years before that famous moment where Princess Diana made history publicly shaking the hand of someone with HIV. Right. Five years before that. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So it was at a time where touching a person who had AIDS, let alone holding them to provide comfort, is seen as extremely risky by almost everyone. There's also a large outside component to Ward 5B, which includes a roster of volunteers from the gay community, local hospices, and the Shanty Project, who do things like decorate and furnish the ward. Wow. That's so hacky.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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It's like the gay men go in and they're like, oh, the lighting in here is terrible. It's just like, but it matters. Yeah. It's all about dignity. Yeah. It's quality of life. They also run errands. They offer counseling. They look for housing for the patients when they get discharged because there are patients who are getting discharged.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Nurse Allison Moed says, quote, on a broad level, we learned how to take care of patients who are going through this terrible disease. It was about caring, not about curing.
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It was about touching and interacting, letting people know they were safe, letting people know that they were accepted, letting people know that their wishes were going to be listened to, that their thoughts about their care and options were going to be respected and heard. That was not necessarily the mode in those days. So very quickly, the demand for Ward 5B exceeds its capacity.
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When a patient passes away and a bed becomes available, it's quickly filled by someone from a lengthy wait list. Then in May of 1986, the unit expands into Ward 5A, adding about 30 more beds. Wow. So as Ward 5B's profile rises, politicians, advocates, and celebrities stop by to show support for the staff's efforts and the patient's recovery.
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Of course, given the stigma around HIV and AIDS at the time, not everyone is in support of what's going on at SF General. Homophobic members of the public are incensed that public dollars have gone to the funding of 5B. And in cases where the patients are well enough to move around the hospital and visit the cafeteria, hysteria erupts around 5B patients using the water fountains.
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A group of four nurses even sues San Francisco General over fears that 5B is risking their personal health. But that case is ultimately shot down as 5B's model of care is deemed safe and appropriate treatment. Before long, it becomes the gold standard for HIV and AIDS care throughout the world. Meanwhile, the mission of 5B stands firm.
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In 1985, the New York Times reports that just two staffers have left the ward in its first two years of operation, which is, quote, a much lower number than hospital wards normally experience. Alison Moed says, quote, we learned that compassion is one of those things that doesn't become depleted. The more you give it, it actually replenishes.
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It's one of those things where the more you give, the better you feel and want to give. That's what love's about, right? There was a very loving exchange and loving feeling on the unit. And I know you could see it. We were really committed to what we were doing and passionate about being able to do it. So by the mid-1990s, advancements in medication change everything.
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An AIDS diagnosis is no longer an automatic death sentence. And before long, HIV is regarded as a manageable chronic condition. Fewer and fewer beds in wards 5A and 5B are occupied. And by 2006, both wards are officially disbanded. 2006, that's like such a long time. Such a long time. Yeah. Cliff Morrison continues working as an advocate for those people with HIV and AIDS.
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In interviews, he's not one to talk about his own emotions or experience, which is on brand for such a dedicated health care provider. But like so many gay men of his age, he lost an unimaginable number of loved ones to this disease. Cliff has said, quote, I have dealt with survivor's guilt on and off through the years and still suffer from PTSD. I don't have any peers because they all died.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Oh, you're right. Today, the majority of my friends are 20 years younger than me, but I have absolutely no regrets. I would do it all again. I was a gay man, but I was a nurse first. The impact of his work with 5B endures. Today, there's a memorial plaque hanging at the hospital that says, quote, On July 25, 1983, here on Ward 5B, a group of caregivers gathered to confront a new epidemic, AIDS.
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They created a haven of acceptance and compassion at a time when others were calling for isolation and rejection. They saw fellow human beings where others saw only disease and contagion. Together with a generous, loving volunteer community, they developed a world-renowned center of excellence dedicated to quality of care for the living and the dying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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This plaque commemorates all who served here and remembers all who died. And that is the story of Cliff Morrison and the heroic staff at Ward 5B. I mean, holy shit. Right? Unbelievable. Good job. I mean, I think being... In any way first is one of the hardest things to do. You don't have anybody behind you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Especially like in Cliff's situation, he was having to teach and basically lecture doctors of like that whole thing of I have it already. If it's bad, I have it. So there's no reason I don't go take care of my friend. And that kind of energy, which is like risking it, that's the ultimate sacrifice. Yeah. For something is like, so you're not just standing by letting something go on.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then you become, Cliff became this example. Of like, well, if he's doing it, then it must be OK for me. Right. Which must mean that this hysteria is not the truth. Right. That it's essentially like we actually have to figure. And now, you know, now we know that like there there was very specific ways that HIV was transmitted.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So that whole idea was completely incorrect. It was just no one knew the the exact medical truth. Yeah. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Because the president wouldn't say it was happening. I mean, like, if you want to read Cliff Morrison's actual own writing about this, there is a website you can go to. It'll be listed in the sources. And it's an article he wrote called They Did Not Die Peacefully. And he wrote it in 2011. So it really is like the firsthand account.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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If you're looking for that, that's the source that you should pull and read because his firsthand account, you know, is what everyone should read.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And be brave and take care of your fellow man. That's right. And do your best. Do your best. You've got it in you. You do. Be first. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
This episode was mixed by Liana Squilacci.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
457 - In With The Goths
I'm so glad. Yeah. And we've talked a lot about it. Yeah. And you love when something that you read, something like that you know about from it feels like it's the very first iteration of it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Actually gets executed. Right. By people who also loved it. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Right. Well, it's recent to us.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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So it is that kind of thing where it maybe doesn't feel like history. Right. But yeah, in America, we don't know enough about the troubles and what's kind of behind it. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Except for this area.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yes. Right. Exactly. I know it now. We all know now. We all know all of the things that we know the most. Now. Now. Now we know them after the fact. What about you? What have you got? Let's see. I binged Monday night football, Tuesday night football, Wednesday afternoon football. Oh, because you were... There was no end to the football experience.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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But what I loved was I just lay on the couch. My dad watches football, but he gets it straight into his hearing aids, right? So it goes... Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm sitting in silence with kind of the background of football. I don't have to listen to it. And then I can just watch TikTok full volume in the middle of the room. And it's like we have a great setup.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And then if anybody needs to tell the other person anything, we both stop what we're doing and go, what? Okay. So I need to get Vince hearing aids is what you're saying.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And it's also I think it's like you don't you understand the value of it, but you don't have to be invested. You just kind of get to enjoy the general vibe and then and then like go to sleep.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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They go together perfectly.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And you're powering through it. That's right. Speaking of which, I was basically binging TikTok, I guess that would be, on top of forced football, voluntarily binging TikTok. And so I think I told you this already, but one of the things that is now in my experience is I get to see the clips of Nick Terry's MFM animated all the time because they're in my feed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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The algorithm has figured out I love myself. And so they come up all the time. And the other day, the I can't find my mom little girl in the store story that you told about a goth, a punk or a grandma. And so I saw that one and I'm like, so cute. And then I looked down and it was it was actually retweeted by a company called Goth Cloth. And Gothcloth retweeting that, it got 500,000 likes.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Holy shit. And two million views. Are you fucking serious? I am dead serious. So Gothcloth, we want to say thank you. Just let me tell you really quick. Goth Cloth was founded by a woman named Jordan Cahill in 2023, so recently. It's a blend of personal design she creates and curated items that are must-haves for ghosts and ghouls. I love ghosts and ghouls.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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And witches. Thanks, Jordan, for the RT and the, you know, I guess it's like some nice content for the goths and the ghouls that might be wanting to buy her clothing. I love that.
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I feel like we Without being, you know, it's that kind of thing when I was in high school in the 80s. You weren't allowed to try to be in with a group if you weren't going to like dye your hair or wear the black lipstick or whatever. Pluck all your eyebrows and put cat liner on.
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That's kind of what it is. Yeah. Yeah, murderinos. Go to gothclothco.com, gothclothco, if you want any of those things, because those are our new friends. Yay. And also, if you're lost in a grocery store and you can't find your mom.
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So this December's, we don't have a name for it, Giving Corner. Sure. We're kicking it off with a donation of $10,000 to an organization called Feeding America. They're part of a nationwide network of 200 food banks and 60,000 meal programs. So people can access food without judgment or stigma.
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And so if you'd like to join us in giving to this very important cause, you can go to their website at feedingamerica.org.
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Just let's all be looking out for ways to help each other and support each other and making sure people in need have what they need. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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I mean, please check all those dates. Anyways. Yeah, that's a nice one. That's a good feeling, kickoff December. Love it. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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Yeah. So this week on Buried Bones, Kate and Paul are kicking off a two-part series on Harvey Glatzman, known as the Glamour Girl Killer. He terrorized Los Angeles in the 50s. Blocked up story.
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It's like a Cliff's Notes binging. It's like my favorite murder for dummies. Get over there. We'll make it easy those first couple hundred episodes. That's the plan. Also, this week over on this podcast, I'll kill you. The errands are talking about all things scabies. Yes. Learn about the history of scabies and dive into scabies before scabies dives into you.
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I knew a fucking dirty ass hipster who got scabies. My mother was convinced because I bought clothes at vintage store at the Goodwill. Basically, she's like, you are going to get scabies and then you're going to come to me. And I'm just telling you right now where I'm like, it's a coat. It's an old man's coat. Right.
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And now that we're doing video, did you know we're also doing commercials? So let's take a look at the commercial that we made. What? Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 411
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. I remember some things about shooting the pilot. Right. I have some memories I can fill you in. And that you're going to fill me in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 411
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 411
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 409
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. I remember some things about shooting the pilot. Right. I have some memories I can fill you in. That you're going to fill me in.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 409
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
This one's called Lovable Slash Crazy Neighbor Story. It starts, all y'all. All y'all. That's right. There's a saying in the South, we don't hide our crazy, we parade it out on the front porch and give it a cocktail. Hell yeah. In that vein, life gave us our elderly neighbor, Camellia, a true Southern character.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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For their entire married lives, Camelia and her husband Bill live like paupers at home, then use the money they save to travel the globe. Growing up with that example right next door, my own four kids are spending their 20s traveling and living all over the world as well. Nice. Amazing. Camelia has no filter, never did.
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MFM Minisode 408
She will love you like nobody else and flat put you in your place when you need it. And at 90 now, if she wants to walk to the mailbox in her underwear, she absolutely does. Why not? The freedoms. My hands-down favorite Camellia story was one day when I arranged for a group of boys from the local Baptist church to volunteer doing chores in her yard.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
The boys showed up, as did their pastor and assistant pastor. As the boys worked, we stood in the yard and chatted with the pastors, and I asked Camellia for permission to tell them the sweet story of how she and Bill met. The story goes that they were both in Colorado skiing in the early 70s, her from Louisiana, him from Florida.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
A big snow fell, airports were closed, and the only way out was by bus where the two of them were seated together and talked for hours. When she got back to Louisiana, Camelia called the bus line, lied, and said that she'd sat next to a man named Bill and their suitcases had gotten switched. Yeah. It says it absolutely had not. She asked for his phone number to call him and rectify the situation.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Wow. Going for it. This being the 70s, they didn't give it a second thought.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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She called, they connected, started dating, got married, and were absolute soulmates until Bill died in 2018. As I retold this charming, if a bit impish, tale, Camelia added, of course, we were both married to other people at the time. Lady. All bold, all caps. What? Right in front of the pastors, too. Oh, that's right. Yeah. She's at church?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
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No, they're in the front yard with the boys doing the work at the yard. Oh, that's right. That's a completely different story and not one I've necessarily related to the local Baptist preachers. Classic camellia, though. I have no doubt she'd set up that little booby trap and was just waiting to spring it on me. She's like, go ahead, tell the story. Yeah, sure. I'd love for you to.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
And welcome to my favorite murder. The Minisoad.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Thanks for all you two lovelies do, not the least of which is offering me a way to connect with my 30-something daughter. Oh. And then her name is Mimi. Mimi.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I mean. Very cool. Unless you're in love with someone else at the same time. I mean. Married to them. But. Yeah, figure it out. You know. Communicate. Listen.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Better be. You want to go first? Sure. Okay. My first one's called Lost in the Woods. Hey, MFM crew. On Minisoad 402, y'all shared some great stories about getting lost in the woods, so I figured I'd share mine. A handful of years ago, my father and some friends were hanging out in the wilderness of Oregon when one of their dogs got away. The group split up and began searching for the dog.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I love that thing of like, no, no, no, you don't.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Once successful in the search, the crew all headed back to their cars, loaded into three different vehicles, and took off. all of them except my father. He watched with disbelief as the three cars pulled away and headed down the mountain with his backpack in one of the trunks, chasing them, furiously waving his arms. No one noticed.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I had something similar happen, like a hurricane during a camping trip. But it was a camping trip for the rehab I had gone to at 13. They had like a, you know, like an AA event. And there was like a hurricane in the middle of it.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
It was kind of cool, though, because it was, like, all these people who were, like, trying to be self-sufficient, and they were able to, like, chase all down and, like, make everything better and, like, feel good about themselves instead of doing drugs.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
This last one's short. Okay. It's called Vintage Treasure with a ton of exclamation marks. Guess what? What? I'm visiting New Orleans this week for the first time, and today I set out to find vintage clothing and thrift shops. My dream. I was listening to MFM walking from my hotel to my first destination. Not sure why I chose that shop, just a feeling.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
When I arrived, I tried on a beautiful vintage gold beaded skirt. And found a $50 bill in the pocket. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Literally the first article of clothing I put my hand on this morning. And it says, day made. Yes, mine too. That's the best. Obviously, I bought it and designated it my lucky skirt. Yes. I have been quite distracted the rest of today checking every pocket in every store.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Cheers to obsession. Stay sexy and always follow your heart to treasure. Love, Shaylee. Shaylee, goddammit, congratulations. I've never, like, I've never stuck my hand in a pocket at, like, a vintage shop before. Yeah, like, just rifle through those. Sounds kind of gross.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
According to my father, at first he was just annoyed and figured they'd realize any minute and turn around. As hours went by, he grew more and more frustrated and started walking down the road. Nighttime came quickly and in the dark he tripped and stumbled down a steep gully above a river.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
It's either like a haunted hayride where it's like set up for you or it's like a trail in like a hiking trail that everyone knows is haunted. I'm going to guess it's the first one. It's set up.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Haunted hayride. Yes. Yes. This, no. This one, you have to fucking walk in it? No. Walk and then what?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
He fought hard to get back up the slope but was so shaken up when he got back up he accidentally went in the wrong direction. So he's like doubling back. Flash forward to the next evening his friends first noticed he was left behind. Assholes. The next evening. That's insane. They all lived on a compound together, so my jaw dropped when I first learned this detail.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Yes. Yes. My psychiatrist told me that she's gotten murderinos in before. Wow. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I love that. I feel like we want like parents. OK, please tell us your story, your stories of your trash parenting. Yes. I know you can't tell everyone because you're embarrassed of them or they like make you look bad. So you can be anonymous, but you can tell us.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
They're OK now. They're fine. What did you do as a parent that like you're still you still cringe from? My mom always brings up dropping my brother as a bear, tripping and falling like onto my brother as a baby.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I feel like we need to send like a present or a trophy to the people who write letters that make us then ask for that theme. Oh, yeah. Like they're that good that we're like, yes, more of this.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
We weren't fine when we were 21. No. You know? Yeah. We're still suffering from that. I'm happy for your son, but this is all we have.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
This is as much as we can do. We're doing our best. Extenuating circumstances. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and on Twitter at My Fave Murder. Goodbye.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
My parachute did not deploy.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
It's not like they all went to their own apartments and, like, didn't notice. You know what I mean? Like, it makes sense that they weren't, like, in the room with him. Yeah. But they wouldn't know.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I don't know, but it sounds very high. This is as high as you can get. His friends didn't call search and rescue until almost a full day after they had left him behind. Don't get me started here. Yeah, I mean, for real. My father was lost for three full days before he was found by mushroom foragers. So even after they realized he was gone, he was still fucking, they still couldn't find him. Right.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
That's just the beginning of the problem. Right. He was freezing cold, his cotton clothing soaked through, and he was surviving just on snow and thoughts of getting back to his family. Ugh. Because they took his fucking backpack, too. Yeah. My dad describes this experience as the scariest in his life, but he shares needing to get back to my nephew as what saved his life.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Luckily, he survived with just a small bit of frostbite, but the PTSD from this harrowing experience will remain forever. My biggest reason I wanted to share this story is to share some tips to keep yourself safe outdoors. My father's close call does not deter me from being the outdoorsy woman I am and nor should it you if that's what you love.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Or I'd be like, I'm never having friends again. Exactly. I'm never carpooling again. Right. Here are some tips. One, if you find that you are turned around and unsure of which way is the correct way to go, do not keep moving. The closer you are to your last known location, the less complicated it is for search and rescue to find you.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
They always say that, but it's like the natural thing to be like, I bet there's just down the street. I got to get out of here. Yeah. Stay where you are. Two, bring a navigation tool that has extended battery life, like a Garmin inReach, a map and compass, and some type of emergency beacon if you're going into particularly wild areas. Wasn't his backpack in the car?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I think she means if you're lucky enough to have your possessions on you still. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I'm not taking any of this advice because I'm not going anywhere. Three, invest in high-quality clothing. Cotton kills is a common saying in the outdoors world. It saturates with water easily and becomes very cold. Wool layers, synthetic fabrics, and rain clothes are necessary. Four, don't split up. Unless it is totally necessary, no one should be left behind.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I live in Colorado and I often hear of groups leaving someone behind because they are holding the group back. Always use the buddy system. What? I don't know. Grandma's fucking holding us down. Yeah. Let's leave her. We can really meet you at the top, Grandma. I think it's like that idea, though. Like, OK, buddy, what's going to be at the top? Like, that's a normal thing to think, right?
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Like someone's going slower. Don't do that.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I need to be moving faster. Go to hell. Yeah. Five, always bring a headlamp. Six, learn about the 10 essentials and live by them. The ones that were just given? No. I'm sure that's a thing. Oh. It's a different thing. Stay sexy and hail Mushroom Foragers Anonymous. Yeah. Let's hear it for Mushroom Foragers right now.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I'm okay at it if I'm in a city, like a big city, except for New York. I can't fucking do Jackson, New York. New York's tough. Yeah. But like New York, I mean, LA, I can do it. Right. You go like, where's the airport that's south? Right. Or I go, where's the valley? I don't want to go there. It's that way.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
What answer would you give? I think day one listeners identify as people who started listening from the very first episode when they found it in 2016, like when it came out. Right. But I like that one, too. I mean, let's think of a fucking... They should call themselves something. Yeah, they should call themselves... Obsessive compulsive.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
But also like, how sad to give up something you love because you think this boy is going to somehow make your life better than the thing that you love.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
It doesn't matter. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Oh, my God. I was going Nathan Lane, but wow. Oh, how do you not recognize? Okay. She's a mom. She's a mom.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I was going to say that. Like, not have to perform and be someone... Just have a conversation with the lady. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
I mean, Jodi, top to bottom, just a delightful email. It felt like a good conversation that we just had with Jodi, but it was just one-sided. And Jodi's in Denmark. Yeah.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
You know, the same thing happened to me in a bookstore with Billy Bob Thornton, right? No. Like we walked into each other. Same exact thing. Yeah. That's hilarious. And then I look over and Angelina Jolie is there with him. Are you lying? I swear to fucking. Does that sound like a lie? It does. It's one of my stories from like when I was like 19 when they were married.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
It's April 2020. A woman announces on Facebook that she has COVID and won't be seeking medical attention.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 408
Listen to What Happened to Talena Zarr on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 412
This is exactly right. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 412
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 412
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
MFM Minisode 412
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Jay’s Must-Listens: 6 Love Experts Reveal How to Finally Attract the Right Relationship! Featuring Joe Dispenza & Lori Gottlieb
I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The incredible Cynthia Nixon joins me this week for a conversation filled with memories and stories I didn't even know. Cynthia could have been Carrie.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Jay’s Must-Listens: 6 Love Experts Reveal How to Finally Attract the Right Relationship! Featuring Joe Dispenza & Lori Gottlieb
Did you?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Jay’s Must-Listens: 6 Love Experts Reveal How to Finally Attract the Right Relationship! Featuring Joe Dispenza & Lori Gottlieb
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Hannah Berner: Why Getting Fired Was the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me
I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The incredible Cynthia Nixon joins me this week for a conversation filled with memories, lots of laughs, and even unexpected revelations and stories I didn't even know. Like, Cynthia could have been Carrie?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Hannah Berner: Why Getting Fired Was the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me
Also, is she a Miranda?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Hannah Berner: Why Getting Fired Was the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
David Blaine: I Nearly Died Doing This (How to Conquer Fear and Push Your Limits)
I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The incredible Cynthia Nixon joins me this week for a conversation filled with memories and stories I didn't even know. Cynthia could have been Carrie.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
David Blaine: I Nearly Died Doing This (How to Conquer Fear and Push Your Limits)
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Dr. Tara Swart: 4 Brain Hacks To Manifest Anything Into Your Life (Science-Backed Method!)
I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The incredible Cynthia Nixon joins me this week for a conversation filled with memories and stories I didn't even know. Cynthia could have been Carrie.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Dr. Tara Swart: 4 Brain Hacks To Manifest Anything Into Your Life (Science-Backed Method!)
Did you?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Dr. Tara Swart: 4 Brain Hacks To Manifest Anything Into Your Life (Science-Backed Method!)
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Telepathy Tapes Creator Ky Dickens Reveals Shocking NEW Evidence on the Link Between Telepathy and Non-Speakers with Autism
I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The incredible Cynthia Nixon joins me this week for a conversation filled with memories and stories I didn't even know. Cynthia could have been Carrie.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Telepathy Tapes Creator Ky Dickens Reveals Shocking NEW Evidence on the Link Between Telepathy and Non-Speakers with Autism
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Stop Draining Your Energy In 2025: These 3 Habits Will Save You So Much Time!
I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The incredible Cynthia Nixon joins me this week for a conversation filled with memories, lots of laughs, and even unexpected revelations and stories I didn't even know. Like, Cynthia could have been Carrie?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Stop Draining Your Energy In 2025: These 3 Habits Will Save You So Much Time!
Also, is she a Miranda?
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
Stop Draining Your Energy In 2025: These 3 Habits Will Save You So Much Time!
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
But then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
But then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
Stuff You Should Know
The Cliffs Notes on Cliffs Notes
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
I completely forgot about it. And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
I completely forgot about it. And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
We Got to Sesame Street
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: How Ice Cream Works
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: How Ice Cream Works
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: How Ice Cream Works
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: How Ice Cream Works
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: How Ice Cream Works
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I completely forgot about it. And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
I completely forgot about it. And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Stuff You Should Know
Selects: Muzak: Easy Listening Goodness
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
I completely forgot about it. And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
I completely forgot about it. And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Small Town, Big Secrets — Talina Zar E2
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
the hunt you can't miss this listen to are you a charlotte on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts what happens when we come face to face with death my truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine my parachute did not deploy i was kidnapped by a drug cartel i just remember everything getting dark i'm dying
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning, like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
What Happened to Talina Zar
Alone Time —Talina Zar E1
Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.