Konstantin Kisin

The gender dynamics in the book between who it is that actually is inviting these people and who it is that's resisting,

Thriva, welcome back to Trigonometry.

Third time, great to have you.

The reason we have you on regularly is you're a prolific writer, as I was saying before we started.

You've just written the new book called A Better Life.

And as always, you stay away from the controversy, don't you, Lionel?

Well, this book, of course, is a novel, but it is about immigration.

And I think you actually go very deep and very hard at an issue that has become completely toxified, impossible to talk about, and also impossible to be honest about.

Is that why you wanted to talk about this issue?

One of the interesting things that I think you explore in the book is why this is all happening in the West, why there's been these gigantic waves of mass immigration in the last 20 years in particular.

And it was interesting, I was listening to you on another podcast with our friend Winston, and he asked you about the comments that Jim Ratcliffe made when he said England's been colonized by immigrants.

And he said, do you think that's true?

And you said,

Of course, which I thought was surprising, actually, because I think that the reason I don't agree with what he said, even though I understand why he said it, is that I think to say something is colonization is to imply that the people who are coming are responsible for it, whereas what your book actually explores is the people who are responsible for the ways of mass immigration, the people who are encouraging and making it possible.

Encouraged and, in fact, invited, I would argue.

Quite.

And you mentioned that you agree with me that this is being invited.

What do you think is the motivation for all of this?

Or were there motivations?

I'm sure there's more than one.