Francis Foster
Appearances
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
This is a historic moment. How do you feel it's going so far?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
No one would deny that President Trump is the person who has to do this.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
He hasn't? No. Well, the Russians have rejected the ceasefire. The deal isn't being done.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Well, Seb, you know us. We come at it from a very realistic perspective. We're not trying to catch you out or anything. But let me share my concerns, and perhaps you can address them, and the concerns that a lot of people share. What I'm saying is, I understand why America needs to focus on China. I absolutely understand, particularly from the UK, why Islamist terrorism is a big problem.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Yes. Our good friend, Dr. Sebastian Gorka, deputy assistant to the president, and you deal with counterterrorism above all. We're sitting here with the coffee cups with the president of the United States on them in the room where the American government found out Pearl Harbor had happened. So that was a historic moment. This is a historic moment. How do you feel it's going so far?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
But the concern is, in the desire to focus on those things, there may be an...
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
a sense of unnecessary like how do you say unnecessary urgency is not what i mean but like let's just get this deal done no matter what happens and then you get a deal for ukraine that means that this invasion is repeated right the next time let me just finish this it's important there's two two dimensions uh president trump's no longer in office so whatever strength he has you know you've got a let's say biden comes back out of the carbo box and he's president right
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
And then Putin can invade again because there's no permanent security, because we rushed the deal now because we needed to focus on other things, number one. Number two is there are a lot of small countries, as you well know with your Hungarian ancestry, in Eastern Europe who are very concerned about Russia.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
To them, this idea that Vladimir Putin is a scary guy is not theoretical because they know history, right? No. And a lot of places around the world elsewhere that have powerful enemies, smaller countries, are going to look at this and go, well, look, if there is no order in the world, if it's the strong against the weak, we need to get nuclear weapons and protect ourselves, right?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
So can you reassure sensible people around the world that in attempting to do a deal quickly, Ukraine isn't going to end up in a position that's bad for the world and bad for America?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
That comes across. Doesn't it? Oh, 100%. I said it on Question Time like a week ago. Whatever you may say about him, the fact that he clearly wants the human suffering to end comes across completely authentically.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Okay, let me give you a counterexample scenario. The president of Russia, whether it's Vladimir Putin or whoever, five years down the line, says, Mr. President, Mr. President Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, whoever, right? We're invading. You've got a few thousand of your people digging stuff out of the ground. Get them out now because we're invading tomorrow.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
America's going to go to nuclear war with Russia over a few thousand contractors? No, you're not.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
But a Democrat will be in this building at some point. But that's not something I can prevent. I know, but...
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Seb, I thought you made a really good point earlier when you talked about the fact that President Trump has got Europeans to start paying their way when it comes to NATO. And as you well know, we've been talking about this for a very long time. So I've got nothing against that and everything for that.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
But also, I do think there is some truth to the charge that is being made, that you are nicer to your enemies than you are to your friends, just in terms of the way that you talk. Not you personally, but this building, let's say. Yeah, but... Do you think there's some truth to that?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
You judge a man by what he does, absolutely.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Well, you say that in a way that will sound kind of like political to a lot of people, but the president has come out and been very, very clear, and Tulsi Gabbard also, that you guys see jihadism as one of the big threats to America, which seems a bit of a pivot.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
So can you reassure sensible people around the world that in attempting to do a deal quickly, Ukraine isn't going to end up in a position that's bad for the world and bad for America?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
So before we ask our last question, because we're running out of time, you're a busy guy and we appreciate it. Before we ask the last one, what do you think is the biggest challenge for the Trump administration over the next four years? Lawfare.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
And what's the one thing we're still not talking about that we should be?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Shakespeare and beyond, right? So from the ancients... Shakespeare's cancelled, man. I don't know if you've heard.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Seb, appreciate your time. Thank you, guys. Thank you for watching. There is no sub stack for this interview because Seb is a very busy guy. We don't have time, but we incorporate as many of your questions as we could in the main interview. Head on over there now and subscribe.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
So do you think people don't understand this? I think even I feel like I probably didn't understand. Before we start, I hope you don't mind me mentioning, you were on the phone with an American hostage who'd just returned from the Middle East. And you're literally there on the phone saying, welcome back to America.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Most people are so, our lives are so far away from that, that I think understanding any conflict really, but Gaza in particular, it just feels like, I don't think people get it really. Do you know what I mean? But how could they?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
It is where we are. And one of the things, you know, the three of us have been friends for a long time. One of the things I've always liked about you is you're very, very pro-President Trump. Of course, you would be. But you're not an ideologue. You're a pragmatist. And one of the things that I think you would concede is you can't focus on everything at once.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
So one of the challenges is, as you guys focus more on China and on the threat of Islamism, which are both big, serious threats, Obviously, the Russia-Ukraine thing, you know, the president, I think, is quite keen to wrap that up.
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
But I don't have to be a critic of the president to observe that he promised they would be done on day one. And right now, a lot of people, Seb, are saying, you know... It looks like Donald Trump may have met his match in terms of negotiations. You know, how do you feel about that?
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Live from the White House with Dr Sebastian Gorka
Oh, I meant it as a compliment. No, I know, but let me unpack that comment.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Liam Halligan, our go-to guy for all things economics. We want to talk to you about the tariffs. We want to talk to you about the British economy. And you have a very particular insight into the civil war that's happening inside of reform as well. We'll touch on that at the end. But first of all, let's talk about the Trump tariffs.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
One of the things I think quite a lot of us assumed is this is just talk, right? He's going to claim he's going to put some tariffs on in order to get people to do what he wants, but we're not actually going to have tariffs. Is that what's happening, or are we actually going to have a trade war of the kind that people fear?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Because I would say in Russia, the corruption has been nationalized. That's the difference. Yeah, potentially. So all of Eastern Europe is basically corrupt. And the choice is either you have corrupt oligarchs or you have one guy at the top and his team who are all corrupt.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
It's unorganized. There's no way to navigate it.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
I would say in Russia, you know who to give the bribe to. In Ukraine, you could give someone a bribe, and then it turns out they have no power to help you.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
And Liam, we weren't going to talk about Russia-Ukraine, but since you brought it up, something I want to ask you is one of the concerns of mine is there seems to be, for the reasons I think partly that you've just articulated, a very short-termist approach to attempting to get a settlement there, which I understand after three years of brutal fighting. Million dead.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
We want the fighting to stop, of course. Well, some people do. A lot of people wanted to carry on, apparently. Yeah. I think, well, I think that's probably slightly a straw man in the sense that I think a lot of people want the right deal. Yeah. And they're prepared to continue fighting to the extent that that might contribute.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
I think a lot of people are naive and idealistic and far, far less educated than you about this issue. And so they think, well, rah, rah, rah, Ukraine flag in bio, that's going to solve the problem. But if we're talking about serious people, I think everybody recognizes that Ukrainians did their best very courageously. We gave them not enough support, in my opinion, but whatever we were prepared.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Ultimately, that has ended up with us in a stalemate, more or less, where we are, right? So now it's time to have peace. The issue that I think is of great concern is that, number one, if we don't get a deal that has permanent security for Ukraine, this will happen again, number one. So we're going to be back in square one.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Number two, and this I think is even more concerning, particularly with a lot of people who say they're anti-war and they say the reason for that is they're trying to avoid nuclear disaster. Well, what happens when all the small countries that have powerful enemies look around and go, well, look, America has been very clear. They're no longer the world's policeman. They're stepping back.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
They're not going to protect you. They're not going to step in and say this is wrong. They're not going to defend you. Well, how do you defend yourself when there's no police? You have to get the best weapons you can. So there's a risk of nuclear proliferation in that situation, isn't there?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
This is Francis. He's the Venezuelan one.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Well, this brings us on to the British economy, which is something... It's not going to lead to the growth that the markets want to see to justify the borrowing. I think that's certainly true.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
I suppose the question that I was going to ask you about the British economy, but I think it applies across Europe, is, is there a possibility that because of the hard reality... We've been living in cloud cuckoo land for quite some time. Fiscally, yeah. In every way, actually, culturally as well. We've believed all sorts of things that aren't true about men being able to be women and all sorts.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
I agree. We've been living in cloud cuckoo land. Is there some hope that what happens is, I mean, net zero is a good example of this, right? It's another cloud cuckoo land policy, right?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
That because of the harsh reality of the world we now live in, where those luxury beliefs are no longer maintainable, we actually start, I mean, I see the Labour Party announcing that they're going to reform the benefit system, that it's too bloated, apparently, suddenly, and there's too much waste and people are trapped in the benefit system, as we had Fraser Nelson in this very room talking about only a couple of weeks ago.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Is there some hope that we wake up from this slumber and go, actually, we can't afford to have a military and net zero. Actually, we can't afford to have bloated social welfare systems like we do in Europe and defend ourselves without the American protection umbrella.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Is there hope that this is a big wake up call for all of us here in Europe and we actually start to go for a productive economy to take the handbrake off ourselves, to take the noose off our neck, frankly, with things like net zero?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Well, let me interject one thing on that because it's very important for people listening and watching this that we get this. So austerity or the attempt to reduce our spending is never going to be about simply reducing things that are unnecessary. Some of those things that we're going to have to get rid of are things that we like, things that are good.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
But in the same way that if you have someone, for some reason, your income halves, you're going to have to let go of things. You have to prioritize.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Just pause one second. One second. One thing that occurs to me is that for our audience and for us as well, who are not economists like you, can you just explain that? what the point of tariffs is, what the impact of tariffs is, how does it work, and what is the thinking behind imposing tariffs on China and not taking them off?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
And on that very subject, Liam, well done. The segue was beautiful. There was a party until very recently that was very clear about its opposition to net zero and lots of other things that that very blue collar base that you're talking about feels very strongly about.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
And this was summed up perfectly by a friend of the show, a friend of ours called Jeff Norcois, great comedian, who said, great comedian, who said, how the fuck, great podcast, what most people think. Exactly. And what he said is on Twitter, how the fuck is there a civil war in a party with five MPs? What the hell is going on in reform, Liam?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Is it? Because a lot of people will say it's about ego.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Sure. We've had both Rupert and Nigel on the show. I think the thing about deporting people, I'm pretty sure Rupert wants to deport illegal immigrants. So why is that an issue? Don't we all want illegal immigrants deported?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
But isn't that, like, I'm an immigrant. I want illegal, like, I don't think people should come here legally and then be allowed to stay. It depends, doesn't it?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Well, I saw a tweet this morning, somebody saying, my portfolio's pronouns are, was, were.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
It's interesting you say that, because the concern for a lot of people isn't... Look, I say this with all respect to both men. I don't care about Nigel Farage. I don't care about Rupert Lowe. I don't care about reform. I don't care about the Conservative Party. I don't care about the Labour Party. I don't care about the Lib Dems. I care about the country.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
And the concern for a lot of people with this is the following. Forget about Rupert Lowe and Nigel Farage. If this is how Nigel runs a party, I'm not saying this is my position, by the way. I believe in strong leadership, and I think people have to follow the leader as much as that's possible. as much as that's possible.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
But the concern for a lot of people that I'm hearing is, well, if Nigel Farage can't run a party of five MPs, how is he going to run a party of 200 MPs? And if the moment anyone challenges the way things are done, they get what Rupert's had, which by many people's reckoning is unfair treatment, being accused of things that you may or may not have done and also pretty nasty stuff.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
One of the things that people are putting out is he's got early onset dementia. You know, this is pretty low grade shit. You wouldn't enjoy someone saying that about you or me or anyone else, right?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
So the concern for people who don't care about the personalities but care about the country is how is reform going to be a credible challenge to the two mainstream parties, which they have a real shot of doing. Oh, definitely. If they can't keep five people on the same fucking team.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
No, I understand, but I'm making a different point.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
But the argument is different. My argument is different, which is, as this thing carries on, reform have less than four years now, around four years until the next election. They're going to have to have... a party of 300 people, some of whom are going to be the Rupert Lows, etc. How is the concern for, I think, a lot of people who are paying attention?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Yes, I understand Nigel is huge in the country. He is undoubtedly, and Rupert isn't, understood. But how is a party that reacts this way to any challenge to the current structure going to manage that situation if they're going to be a credible alternative?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
That makes sense. And by the way, I should say, we did invite Rupert on the show, but he wasn't available to come on this week. Anyway, we'll ask you the last question. We'll head over to Substack to ask you our supporters' questions, and then we'll wrap up. Final question is always the same. What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
Before Liam answers the final question, at the end of the interview, make sure you click the link in the description, head on over to our sub stack, and you'll be able to see this. Can the US increase GDP per capita through additional onshore investment to offset or outpace the inflationary pressure caused by tariffs?
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
And Liam, I'm delighted to say that after me badgering you for about two years, you are starting a Substack. And I think that's fantastic because your economic analysis, absolutely top-notch. Anytime I'm doing any TV show, I always call you up and steal your ideas and then say them in my own way. So I'm delighted that that's now available.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
You've bounced around all sorts of different places, but your economic commentary has always been right up there with the best of it. I'm super delighted you've got a Substack. The link will be in the description of this episode for people to check it out. And it will be great for people to be able to access that directly.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
And head on over to Substack where we ask Liam your questions, including possibly ones about mainland Europe. See you there.
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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Will Trump's Strategy Work? - Liam Halligan
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
It's so interesting watching the show and also watching the discourse happening online where we talk about misogyny, but it's just this vicious resentment of women. Vicious.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
And one of the things that the show really beautifully explores is the consequences of letting young kids, essentially pubescent and prepubescent, unfettered access to the Internet and how dangerous that is.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Because when you see Tate, and you know, Andrew Tate, and people, obviously there's a lot to criticize Tate for, and all the rest of it, and people go, oh, I can't believe people fall for this stuff, and his content. But you look at his content through the eyes of a 12 or 13-year-old boy, who wouldn't want to be that guy when you're 12 or 13? You drive fast cars. Yeah.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
You know, you live with your brother who also looks pretty cool. You're an expert at martial arts. You're buff. You have loads of girls.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
That's kind of the ideal, isn't it? And you're a millionaire.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
One of the things that it showed as well is because the teachers couldn't control the kids, then the propensity for bad behaviour, but also violence. And I was talking to Constantine afterwards, and I was saying, if we actually, as a society, dealt with...
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
that type of behaviour in kids, the violent and the threatening and the abusive, as we did with adults, you would see a lot of kids getting arrested for GBH, assault, etc, etc.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Yeah, that school was pretty typical. I'll be honest, I've taught in schools worse than that.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
And one of the themes that kept coming up was the theme of screens. And, you know, you saw the kids on their phones. You saw, you know, talking about the computer in the room. But also there was the screens in the school. And I thought that was very interesting. I remember, I mean, bear in mind this was nearly 10 years ago. I remember a question I got asked in an interview, which was,
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Why can't you have an outstanding lesson without the use of a screen? Interesting. Yeah.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
But let's broaden it out, William, because I'll be honest with you. I'm not in favour of anyone below the age of 18 having social media. I don't understand why you need social media. That's not what you need to be doing at that age. You need to be, I'm going to sound old, you're going to need to be learning. You need basic reading, writing, literacy. You need to be numerate.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
And this is a time in your life where you want to be learning skills so that when you go out into the world, not only the world of work, but also life, you're fully prepared for it.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
But also as well, William, I think the thing is, look, You've got to be honest with boys. And you go, when you're starting out, for the vast majority of you, it's going to be tough. That's just the way it is. That's the way the mating market works. And you can complain about it, and you can whine about it, but it's not going to change anything.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
But this is your time now for you to work hard, learn skills. You can leave school at 16. You can train to become a gas engineer. Well, you can earn in a few years 100K a year. You can learn how to play guitar. There's so many things that you can do that if you're just willing to put in the time and have a little bit of deferred gratification, eventually you are going to get the payoffs.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Absolutely. And as well, if you actually just say to them, look lads, things are going to get better. Because the reality is... part of what this lad was feeling was teenage angst.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Every single one of us has gone through. And he said, and I found it quite upsetting because it reminded me of what I felt when I was a kid. It was like, I'm not good at anything. Well, number one, we know that it probably isn't true because he was good at art. And number two, Of course you're not going to be good at anything. You've just started your life.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
You know, it takes a while to get good at things.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
William, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We always end every interview the same way, with the same question. What's the one thing we're not talking about that we really should be?
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Who is available to influence positive masculinity that isn't from Gen X and above? How much is a lack of empathy fueling the violence in society?
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
And William, there was a stat that kept coming up, which I have seen used time and time again, plastered all over social media, which is, I think it's 80% of women are only interested in the top 20% of men. Is that actually true? Or is this something that's just repeated through the manosphere and used as an excuse to berate women and demonise them?
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
And because one of the things that the character Jamie talks about and says about himself is, I'm ugly, I'm ugly, I'm ugly, despite the fact he's clearly not an ugly boy. And when you think about it, we are constantly, particularly on the online dating market, that's how you were judged. Whereas 20 or 30 years ago, okay, you might not be the best looking guy in the world, but you can be charming.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
You can be funny. You can be really talented. You can be an amazing musician. We all know of people who weren't the best looking, but were amazing with girls when we were younger.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
And it's also as well, look, the man or woman of your dreams might not adhere to this particular idealistic checklist that you have in your mind, because what happens in your mind or online, as we are consistently told, is not real life.
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InCel Expert Breaks Down Netflix's Adolescence
Just because somebody is a couple of inches shorter than what your ideal might be, doesn't mean that they're not going to be a wonderful partner and have amazing qualities.
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
Offer is subject to T's and C's. So saying that, and I believe what you're saying, number one, that's terrifying. Number two, when you look at Trump's approach to negotiations with Putin, it casts it in an even worse light than before. Because you're looking at him and you're going, is this appeasement?
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
So that being the case... What it seems more and more, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that Trump is essentially seeing Ukraine as nothing more than a pawn because the most important to him is fostering American-Russian relations so that they can then pressure China and then they're united against China. China is more important to him than Ukraine.
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
And as a result of that, he's far more interested in pursuing relations with Putin. And Zelensky and the fate of the Ukrainian people comes second. Is that fair?
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
The argument from the Trump administration is when we sign the minerals deal with Ukraine, that will guarantee Americans in Ukraine
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
I mean, that's a very good point. That's a very good point. And what it illuminates, Andrei, is to me, listening to what you're saying, is this the end of Ukraine then? Is this inevitable, do you think?
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
I take your point. So I guess the question is, Andrei, what are we meant to do? If it was up to you, what would be done?
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
I find this incredibly worrying with the knowledge that I have of the UK, which has pursued a policy of demilitarization, deindustrialization. And as a result of that, we simply don't have the capacity to take on any type of army, let alone the Russian army. I mean, we just don't have any type of army anymore, really.
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
And the final question we always end with, Andrei, is what's the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be?
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
What's the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should be? I laughed because what you've just said has just, you know, that's the one thing that we need to be talking about.
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
Thank you very much. Make sure to follow us over to Substack where you get to ask Andrey your questions.
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
looking at his episode list now. There's an episode here where Jordan talks to a hostage negotiator from the FBI who lays out his techniques on how to get people to do what you want them to do by making them like and trust you.
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Trump's Deal Will be the End of Ukraine - Andrei Illarionov
Andre, you're saying this to me, and I've followed this closely, obviously not as closely as either of you two at the table. And I'll be honest with you, I'm profoundly shocked because what you seem to be talking about, and forgive me for my historical illiteracy, it's almost like a Hitler-like figure, somebody who wants dominance over Europe. That rings alarm bells in my head.
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
No, of course there's layers to it. The thing that I can't believe is that you have a man who is a convicted paedophile and the US still wants to have involvement with him. Surely wouldn't they look at that and go, this guy is a complete liability? And then also the people who spent time with him. I mean...
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
If I was a public figure of that repute and of that notoriety, the last thing I'd want to do is hang around with a convicted pedophile. That's just a surefire way to torpedo your reputation, isn't it?
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
It's interesting that you say that. And I love the fact that you brought up the idea of a movie because sometimes when talking about Jeffrey Epstein and people who have met him, they say that he's almost not a real person. He was like a construct, which I find really interesting. So what do people mean by that?
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
Do you think as well that we have been focusing in on America and talking about the way it's been conducting its operations and the corruption within, which of course exists, but at the same time, we kind of ignore what the Iranians are doing as well, what the Russians are doing. Everybody is playing this game. So if the Americans weren't playing it, then the Russians would be.
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
And it's just a game, isn't it? It's an interconnected game.
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
A lot of times people were attracted to us, politically also. Hey, listen. When you know the CIA came to us, fact, okay, to help them assassinate Castro, the CIA came to us 100% with JFK's assassination. I heard that my entire life from people that were in the know. And normally in that life, if you had something to do with murder, you don't want to talk about it. Okay?
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
Mike, I mean, here's a question. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm going to, this is a very easy question. Why do you think that the Epstein files haven't been released?
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
But I heard enough about the Kennedy thing to know what went on there. Wait, are you saying the mob murdered JFK? I'm saying they were complicit in it, yes. And I'm telling you this. I've heard that all my life from the right people. And I'm telling you this. There are classified documents that the United States is holding that every 25 years is supposed to release them.
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
Trump was going to release them. Then they put the brakes on it because I believe those classified documents are going to show that the mob was complicit in that. And the U.S. government does not want the world to know that a sitting president was assassinated with the help of the mob.
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
Before Mike answers the final question, at the end of the interview, make sure to head over to our Substack. The link is in the description where you'll be able to see this. Does Mike believe U.S. State Department employees and employees in other federal agencies actively undermined Trump when he was running for president?
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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JFK Files, Epstein and the Deep State - Mike Benz
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Well, look, we were in D.C. and we went into a sandwich shop, and there was a sign on the counter which said, due to the rise of the price in eggs, all sandwiches, which include eggs, have gone up by a dollar.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And that tells you something very, very profound, which is the steep rise in food prices, but also the fact that there's going to be a lot of people who go in to buy a sandwich, see an increase of a dollar, and go... I just can't afford that. And what that actually tells you is people are at breaking point here economically. People are at breaking point.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And that is a very, very dangerous place to be in for the average American because unlike, and you've said it yourself, they don't have the safety net of welfare that we have in Europe. So to have a hand-to-mouth existence in America and then thinking to yourself, you know what? Maybe I'm not going to be able to make health insurance this month.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
What happens if you don't make health insurance and then all of a sudden you come down with something? Then what? Then what happens then? You lose your house, your car. And if you lose your car as an American, this is what people don't really realise. You can't really walk in this country unless you live in New York. So the only way that you can actually really get around is buy a car.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
The only way you can really get to work is buy a car. And if you lose your car, that means that you lose your ability to work and get around. It's a death sentence. So there's a lot of people in this country who scrape by month after month after month. And if Trump wants to make America better,
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
That's the most important thing for me is to make America better for those people because that's the vast majority of Americans.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
We have learned a lot. We have had what I like to think is a little bit of a wake up call when it comes to America. Because last time we came here, talking for myself, I was like, I understand everything about this country. Turns out, I was a little bit wrong.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Yeah, and I think the problem is when there are people, not, of course, all people, but there will be ideologues on both sides. And once ideology becomes the most important thing, In a policy that's when things start to go awry because when you start thinking to yourself actually what is right?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And what is practical and there's going to be mistakes made but on both sides of the political spectrum There are a lot of people who like punishing those people that they see as being in the wrong those people as being immoral those people as let's say as well as being inferior and It is their job to go and get a little bit of justice.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And I think one of the things that we're starting to see on the right with certain aspects and certain people is there is a little bit of a desire for vengeance and justice. And I find myself personally, Very uncomfortable with that.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Yeah. And what I've seen is, look, there's nothing wrong with enthusiasm. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get things done. What I think is a problem is when you start to rush things, because when you start to rush policies and policy implementation, that is a moment where you're not actually taking due care and taking due process. And look, let's be honest. People make mistakes.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Every time you implement a new policy, there's going to be things that you don't know. There's going to be errors that you make. That is all perfectly natural. But when you start to rush things and policies, that's the moment where... Oversights get made. People get swept up and things like maybe gay barbers, gay Venezuelan barbers ending up in maximum security prisons.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And here's the other thing that we've spoken about and we spoke about on Rogan. This is the tragedy of the mainstream media going off the deep end. I don't know if it's true. You don't know if it's true. So we don't know if this guy is true and or it's just been a construct of left wing media. And that's a horrible situation to be in, because if the story is true, this is a human rights travesty.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Let's call it what it is. It's a travesty. But if it's not, then we're all being gaslit and manipulated. And the worst thing is we don't know which one of those is right. No. So in good conscience, we talk about this and we have to add caveat after caveat after caveat, which means we can't hold the right accountable because we don't know what's true and what's not.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And we've been talking about this for a long time and we're here.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And that's really important. And also, America is going to have to have a discussion about, we've seen case after case. And again, I don't know what to think of them because I don't know about the veracity of the reporting. But we hear about these people who attended a protest, pro-Palestine protest, or who organized protests, and they've been deported.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
On the one hand, that makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable. incredibly uncomfortable, because if all you did was attend a protest and all of a sudden you're off, I'm not cool with that, I'm going to be honest with you. If you took part and attended and organised a protest which threatened, intimidated people, damaged public property, defacing public property, all the rest of it,
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I'm not particularly cool with that. And I understand why that particular government would want you out of the country. But America needs to have a very frank conversation about what is acceptable. What is it that is acceptable for people, for non-U.S. citizens to do when they have a visa in this country?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
If the story is true, this is a human rights travesty. Let's call it what it is. It's a travesty. But if it's not, then we're all being gaslit and manipulated.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I disagree. All you need to do is be on an interview with Theo Von, mate, and they let you straight in.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And the way they talk about Europe is kind of similar in a way to an ex-girlfriend talking about a boyfriend at one point who let her down. And it is sneering and it is contemptuous. And we saw that in J.D. Vance's tones in those messages on the Signal chat, which I found on the one hand very dispiriting and actually quite depressing, but I also thought it was actually very valuable
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Yeah. And that is a worry for all of us. And it's a worry for Europe.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
It really is. Which is why Europe needs to step up. It's why Europe needs to step up and it's why Europe, quite frankly, needs to get its head out of its arse and realise that a lot of these policies that it's been pursuing are quite frankly, they're not just self-harm, it's self-destruction. You're obliterating your own economy.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
You are weakening not only your economy, but your ability to defend itself. Because we've been living in this Francis Fukuyama, you know, the end of history, man. We're like, we've got beyond war. It's all cool now because we're trading. And, you know, you've got McDonald's. I've got a McDonald's. That's great, isn't it?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Yeah, but a few years ago, we woke up and we smelt the coffee and we realised that world is over. So what are you going to do? You're going to carry on with your delusion and just like hanging out and being like, oh, this is all right, which is fine. Or are you actually going to realise that, The world has changed and we need to change with it.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Because people were prevaricating. They weren't sure where Vance stood. With those signal messages, you understood loud and clear where J.D. Vance stands when it comes to Europe.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Yes, and... when we were talking to Sebastian Gorka, he made it, he was saying, look, there's things that we can't talk about, but we are going to be tackling that head on. And that's what Iran needs.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Iran needs to be tackled head on because for too long, and we saw that with Biden, with giving a huge amount of money to Iran, a huge amount of money, which to me, I didn't understand the first thing about why they would do that.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
God bless him. But it has been allowed to continue now. You cannot have a nation funding terrorist groups whose explicit aim is to destabilise other countries. And not just Israel, by the way, but Lebanon as well. And other countries. In every country. In every country, you simply can't have it. So you're facing with two options.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Either you kind of basically rely on Israel to hold it together, which it can't do, because eventually, like October the 7th, something will happen, something will get through. Or you realise that the only way to do this is by tackling the problem. And that's it. So, like you, I am more hopeful on the situation with Iran, which I didn't think I'd be saying.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I thought it'd be the other way round, if I'm being honest. Interesting. I thought it'd be the other way round. I thought they were going to be much tougher on Putin. I have found that the way they have spoken, and look, people go, hey, look, these are just tactics and whatever else. I don't agree with that.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I think words of consequences, if you call Zelensky a dictator, I'll be honest with you, I think that's over the line. You can make legitimate criticisms. Fair enough. You can say I have found the Ukrainian leadership when it comes to the discussions unhelpful on X, Y and Z. I have found Putin X, Y, whatever it is. But you can't make claims like that.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Because what it does is that has a very significant impact on the populace of your country. I've actually been shocked when in Austin I've gone to parties and people have been saying things like, you know, Zelensky's a dictator and, you know, Putin, all he's doing is trying to reclaim what's rightfully his. That's quite a mainstream position in large swathes of this country.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And we have been de-industrialising in the UK for far too long. We have let our industries wither on the vine because we'll be like, hey, look, we can just rely on insurance and financial services. London's making a killing. Why does it matter? Well, you know why it matters?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Because you go out of London and you go to some of these provincial towns and cities which have had their literal hearts ripped out of them and the people, it's completely... It's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Remember when we were doing comedy and you were going up and down to the small... That was heartbreaking. Yeah. That was more for the audience, mate, but anyway.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
But you were going to these towns and cities and it was devoid of hope. There was no industry there. It was miserable. It was depressing. It was people living a life without dignity. Not everybody can be a recruitment consultant in London. It can't absorb all those people. You need to have something else.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
We always had really, really great manufacturing in the UK and we just let it go because we were living in this world of going, we don't need it. But just like with all delusions, there comes a point you either wake up and you live in the real world Or you continue to live in the delusion until the real world wakes you up?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
No, I don't know. I don't want it. It's... I'll be honest with you. Sometimes when I come to America and they make jokes about what's going on in the UK. And look, the jokes are good and they're fair. And you want to tell them to go fuck themselves. Yeah, I really do. I really do. But you're not in a position to. No, because it's embarrassing.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
It's like having a kid and he's fat and he's coming last at sports day and everyone's taking the piss out of him. And you're going, well, what can I say? I've got no comeback. I've got nothing. It's embarrassing. It really is embarrassing. We were here. We've been here for two weeks.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
There's a story about somebody being put in a police cell because of complaints on a parent's WhatsApp group because of complaints they made about a teacher. You're going, what is going on? There were six police officers, I think, if not more, come to arrest them. What's happening?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
No, that is probably true, mate. Yeah, that is true. You make a strong case there.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I don't think we're becoming. I think we are then, mate. It's true.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I completely get it. And then when you add in net zero on top of it, which, let's be fair, is just glorified deindustrialisation and makes countries like Germany and the UK, but particularly Germany, more reliant on Russia for providing things like natural gas, resources like natural gas, which Germany is going to be dependent on.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
So I understand the Americans going, hang on, you're saying Russia is the enemy, yet you're engaging in free trade with the enemy. Make it make sense.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
It's a story about somebody being put in a police cell because of complaints on a parent's WhatsApp group. What's happening?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I think it would be disastrous for both. We have always been allies for many, many years, and there are good reasons behind that. America, look, let's be honest, is the dominant superpower in the world, but it doesn't matter how strong or powerful you are, there are going to be times where you need your friends, where you need help.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And by America pursuing this policy almost of isolationism, not to the extent of how some people in the MAGA movement want it, but certainly being very much colder to European friends, You're looking at it and you're thinking to yourself, eventually this is going to come back and bite you on the proverbial. Because the rule is you can't do everything on your own. You need to work with people.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
It helps to work with people. You need trade links. You need diplomatic relations. And if you are going down this path of, I wouldn't call it antagonism, but certainly... Why not? It is antagonism. I see, because I would say that, look, is it openly antagonistic? Yes. Why would you say it's openly antagonistic?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Okay, so this is where the... They are openly contemptuous and antagonistic, but they haven't shown that. There have been hints of it, but it hasn't been open. But what the Signal Group did is made their attitudes and their beliefs and their views of Europe open.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
Well, it is. And what you're going to see is actually people who have the integrity to come out and criticise Team Red and the people that don't. And look, I think this is one of the things we need to talk about honestly. There's just a lot of people on both sides that this is just a power game. And they will do whatever it takes in order to get power.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And once they get power, then they can enact the policies and the vision that they want for the country. And... However you get there, that's fair game. It's fair game. And that's fair game for people on the progressive left, woke, whatever you want to call them. And there's people on the other side of the right. It's fair game to them because to them, this is a game. That's all it is.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
It's a game and you strategize and you do what it takes in order to get your guy in so that you win. And hey, If you break a few eggs, then what's the problem?
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
I completely agree with you, but then you're not partisan. So to those people, all that matters is power and maintaining power. And what's the number one way for them to maintain power is to deny all culpability. That's how you do it. You deny that you've made a mistake, thereby you deny weakness, and thereby you double down.
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We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
And let's be fair to them as well, we have seen time and time again when cancellations happens, the worst things that you can do is apologise. Because once you apologise, that then emboldens the mob in order to get people fired, cancelled, whatever you want to call it. So they would argue, hey, look, maybe in a different world...
TRIGGERnometry
We Went to America - This Is What We Saw
apologizing or saying, hey, we got it wrong here, might be the smart thing to do. But in the world of the online, the world of the Twitter, the world of the troll and online mobs and all the rest of it, no. Double down, that's the only way we ride this out. And I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm saying that's what they probably think.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Because until we do that and we start to actually apply the law as it's meant to be applied and put certain laws in place, then these type of things are just going to continue to happen.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I went to UCLA campus. This was May last year. And I went to a pro-Palestine demonstration and I just went around just interviewing people, talking to students and both on pro-Palestine and the other side. And one thing one of the kids said to me was as he was trying to get into the library, he was like, you know, most of the people who are doing this, they're not from UCLA.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
They're not from this college campus.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
What are they doing here? He goes, look, fair enough. If you want to protest and you go to UCLA, that's all cool, whatever. Number one, don't stop me from getting an education when my parents have paid X amount for it. But number two, he pointed at one of the dudes. He was like, that guy's about 42. I know he doesn't go to my college. Why is he here protesting?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And that's the thing that really worries. I think everybody at the moment is at a very basic fundamental level. I don't know what's real and what's not.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But I think we all need to understand, you to a greater extent, us to a lesser extent, we're not real people to people online. We're just avatars. Right. And then they imbue us with this knowledge that we've got this knowledge that we can see things. You're controlled opposition.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And that's why people like Jeff Bezos buy with the Washington Post.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I agree with you. That is good. But do you think any journalist is going to be allowed to write a piece about Amazon criticizing them?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Joe, can I just say one thing? Yes. I've got a book out in August. It's called Classroom Confidential. It's in August it's coming out? Yeah, August the 18th. Have you finished it? I've finished it, yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah, it does. It does. It does. Particularly the printing industry in the UK. Yeah. So it's coming out. It's all about being a teacher and why you should never be one. And it's very funny.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Make it easier. Yeah, you need to subsidize your movement. You know what I mean?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And it's timed perfectly. Absolutely. What's that quote? God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
It was either... I've said it, and it's either Voltaire or Camus. I can't remember which one. Jamie will find out. Yeah, but that's a quote. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I was like, fuck, my this. You know, it's kind of like adding your ex-girlfriend to the boys' WhatsApp group.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
It's weird. We'll put it this way, Joe. Until relatively recently, if not still, we use faxes in UK government.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah, Gavin Newsom has got incredible hair. Terrible policies, but amazing hair.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
They do. Things get done. But this is kind of the greatest pushback against high-level conspiracy theories. You know when people go, bro, they control everything. You're like, dude, they have a mind where they store stuff. Come on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I really thought you were going to go somewhere else. When you said deep, I went, this is going somewhere else.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Do you think sometimes I look at it through this lens as somebody who's got a very obsessive personality and I work a lot in order to kind of ameliorate that and make sure that it doesn't destroy my life and it doesn't go off the rails. But you see a lot of people and they just get addicted. And we talk about addiction in terms of addiction.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
alcohol or substances you know some people are addicted to outrage to being in fights and arguments online or offline because if they're in an argument they don't have to think about themselves they don't have to think about who they really are they don't actually have to question about their relationships why is it that every relationship i've ever had has failed
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Bro, it's the dirtiest. It's the dirtiest business. It's the dirtiest business in the world. You know what I think now that when I look at politics? And you look at wrestling, and I remember criticizing people who watch soap operas. I remember just going, oh, they're so dumb. And I remember my ex going to me, she went, Francis, you like soccer. That's just soap opera, but for men.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Why is it that my relationship with my parents is terrible? And so you end up just not wanting to actually do the hard work about yourself. So you expel it outwards. It's either like, oh, when I get to this amount of money, I'm going to be happy. But you're never going to be happy because your relationships are terrible. And that is worth more than any amount of money.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Or you feel angry because you're not a happy person for a million different reasons. See, then you pull that out onto the internet and then you get retweets, likes. You start to build a profile of this rage and anger and it gives you validation. And to be honest with you, and look, this is talking from me, I see that demon within me. I see it within me. When you see it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
when do i see it it's like you know when i'm angry and i'm pissed off or if something doesn't go right the victim mentality kicks in and it's like oh it's therefore it's when it's always your fault pretty much all the time it's your fault or at least it's your responsibility to deal with the reality of your life right but it's very easy to at a certain age yes yeah as an adult yeah the responsibility yeah yeah the circumstances of your life when you're six yeah
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And that was, yeah, exactly. That was the really tough thing about being a teacher, especially in those kind of communities where I used to work. You just see these kids and they're just born into that culture. They're born into that system. And you look at them and you go, the reality is. a lot of them, you don't stand a chance. You don't stand a chance.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
If those are the values that you've been given by your family, if that's the system that you've been taught, the way to look at the world, it takes a very special human being to then get to adulthood and break out of it and completely reframe his brain. That's a very special person. Most people just stay within the values that were inculcated in them when they were kids.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And when you think about it, it kind of is. We just buy into our different soap operas.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah, but politics is kind of soap opera for, like, adults.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah, I've got a friend of mine, a guy called Sam Clark, and he's doing wonderful things in the UK in primary school that he's teaching stoicism to kids in primary school.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You know, I really do think a way out of this is because a lot of kids, if you're not talented at sports, if you're not musically or artistically gifted, and if you're not academically brilliant, if you're just one of the regular kids, you'll go, I'm not good at anything. And for a kid, that's heartbreaking.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But if you actually show kids and you go, look, you may not be the best at English, maths, history, whatever it is, but I'm going to teach you how to make something. I want to teach you how to make a table. We're going to do that. We're going to make a table. I'm going to teach how to be a carpenter. I'm going to teach you how to redecorate a room. I'm going to teach you all of these skills.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Then kids will be like, you know what? I am worth something because I can create something of value to people. And that gives self-esteem because when kids join a gang, a lot of them, they haven't had a father. They've had nobody really show them any type of kind of male approval. But if you bring them in, you teach them skills, that would build self-esteem.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And I guarantee you, for a lot of kids, there wouldn't be that need to go out and seek validation somewhere else.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. Sorry, Joe. I was going to say that's so important for a kid. Just imagine you every day of your life, you turned up at school and you lost everything. Just imagine that as an adult. But now just imagine it as a kid. You've been conscious for a few years and you turn up at school and every day you fail.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I think this is why things are so preposterous. Do you know, I try and argue against that, and then I see what's happening in all our countries, and I'm like, you know what? Fine. Probably you've got a point now.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Do you know, we had an Oxford academic called Dr. Carissa Belize, and she said something really interesting. She asked us a question. She goes, do you know why more Jews were arrested and killed in Holland than in France during World War II? And we were like, no. She went, because...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
the dutch had a census where they got people's religions and they asked people their religions and everybody would then said catholic protestant jewish whatever it is and then the dutch government took it and stored it didn't do anything with it they just used it for data collection but when the nazis invaded they then had a complete data set of how many jewish people there were where they lived
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And so when it came to exterminating them and just rounding them up, it was so much easier. France never did that, which means Jewish people were much more able to hide and they could plan a way out or they could get hidden or whatever else in the way that they simply couldn't in Holland. Jesus. And when you hear that story from, I mean, 80 or so years ago now, it really does chill you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And this is what I tell people time and time again. And look, it may sound weird, but what I saw happen in Venezuela, it was obviously awful and horrendous. But it was a privilege as well because I saw another side of life that most people in the West never saw. I remember when family members were being arrested.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
talking to my cousins who were journalists who were going, I can't talk on the phone, Francis. We can't. I don't know who's listening to this. One of my cousins literally had to flee for his life because he was criticizing the government. And then I saw people on the left, people like Jeremy Corbyn,
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Celebrate Chavez's government and you're going, oh, my God, you're celebrating a government that is oppressing people, that is intimidating journalists, that is assaulting dissenters, that is putting people who criticize government in prison. And it's not just the left. Last year, I went on a date with this El Salvadorian journalist. Oh, yeah. Tell me more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I didn't realize we were in Greece, Joe. Bro, you guys drinking sangria?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And she was telling me about Bukele. And I said, look, I don't know anything about Bukele. Just explain to me who he is. I'm interested. And you can tell why I'm not very good on dates. That is not sexy talk, is it?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And not in this instance, sadly. Oh, no. But she said to me that she worked at the biggest newspaper in El Salvador. And then they had goons turn up. who were just saying, you're publishing stories which are critical of Bukele. That needs to stop. And it needs to stop immediately. And it was never done through official sources. It was done through something else.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But it was made very, very clear to the senior editors, this needs to stop now, otherwise things are going to start getting a little bit unpleasant.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And then I tell that to certain people on the right and they're going, bro, journalists are all assholes, who cares? And you go- That's crazy. Do you not see that this is a terrible thing?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
That's the only real one that I know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
It's going to know everything about you. And here's the thing. And here's the thing as well. I go back to that interview we did with Carissa and we were talking about AI because she's professor of AI and ethics at Oxford University. And she was going, AI is only going to be as ethical as the people who program it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
So it's going to adopt the politics of worldview and the ethics, morality of the people who program it. So if the people who program it are woke, you're going to get woke AI. You're going to ask it a question about gender. It's going to be like, bro, there's no such thing as gender. You know, everything's a spectrum. Or there's going to be something else.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
So whoever programs it, you're going to get their worldview in AI.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You know what this reminds me of? You know when the elder brother brings the young kids in to scare the fucking shit out of them?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But he didn't just show me V for Vendetta during the height of the lockdown. He also showed me V for Vendetta on November the 5th, which is fireworks night in our country.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. Yeah. So we were in lockdown. There were fireworks everywhere. I was watching V for Vendetta on the screen and I looked at him. I was like, why are you doing this to me?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But you know what's really interesting about soccer is that that hooligan element, that's not just in the UK. That's right the way through Europe and in South America.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
No, no, no. With rugby teams? Yeah, rugby's kind of different because football with the hooligan element. So in Italian soccer, for example, they have what the hooligans are called the ultras.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And they're so powerful that if the team is playing badly, then what the captain has to do, he then gets, in some instances, the ultras have blockaded the stadium, refuse that the players leave, and the captain is then demanded to go and have a meeting with the head ultra.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Could I have it as well, please? You go for it. This is so English. No, you have it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Me too. But you know the thing that I find most sinister about... Look. I don't know where I stand with the climate debate and what's going on and whatever else, whether it's manmade, whether it's not. It's above my pay grade. I don't know enough about it. But when you start going, OK, that's interesting. You talk to people who are on one particular side and they go. Oh, you're a climate denier?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And I'm like, oh, right. Okay, so now we're in the realms of religion and ideology here. You're denying the climate? You're denying it?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You know the moment I remember going, I realized this was all very weird. When the head of that organization, the most prominent person, was a 14-year-old autistic girl. I think she's 16 or was. No, but she was about 14, 15 at the time. And as somebody who's taught teenagers, they're fucking idiots. Don't ever listen to a teenager.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You're very progressive, Joe. But no, but you just had... Seems like it, right? Yeah, no, she definitely is. She's definitely got autism. And she was just... Are you a doctor?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But the reason... You're 16. Shut up.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Absolutely. And then they put her up there and they were like, isn't this great? And I was like, well, hang on a second. She's got autism, which means she is going to see things naturally in very black and white terms. Also as well, there's a lot of anxiety-based disorders that come with autism. Can you imagine being globally famous? I don't have to say that to you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I can't imagine. I honestly can't. But imagine being this famous at 14. That's child abuse, man.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
No, but then add in to the fact of politics as well. So now there's not only people who love you, there's people who hate you and despise you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Did you see that clip of... And again, I actually feel a lot of empathy for her. She's been placed in a terrible situation. But she got up and she was speaking about Palestine at a climate conference. Nice. And a guy got up and went, like, we're meant to be talking about the climate, not Palestine.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You know, we talk about bravery, you know, and of course, bravery does exist in the West and whatever else and people who speak up and people who lose their jobs and, you know, and that is bravery. Let's let's make no bones about that. Absolutely.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But there are those people like the girls who go out and challenge the morality police in Iran and take off their hijabs and go, no, I'm not going to do it. And then they get thrown in prison.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And they disappear. You look at those women and you go, you know what? You have got far more balls than any man I've ever met.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. Yeah, because when you think about it, there's a lot of people like Hitler was like, no, we're going to do the right thing here.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. But, you know, and that's... I think one of the things that's good about getting older is that you become... If you've got a conscience, you've become less certain in yourself. You realize the fact that you have darkness within you. The problem is when you talk to people and they feel like they're morally pure. And you see this on the extremes of both left...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
and right and that's where the golem is coming because we people we've we've interviewed people on the left and that side of the right and you talk to them and they're all super nice and they're really lovely and they're like you know we want this and we want this and we just want people to be happier and we feel that the best way of doing this is this and the best way of doing that is that and anybody can see that and then you challenge them and they're like yeah you're like
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You see the golem comes out, even for a second, and you see the look in their eye switch, and you're like, holy fuck.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Did you ever hear this story? I think it was a guy called Curtis. I think it was Curtis Woodhouse. It was someone like that. So it may not have been Curtis, but it was someone of that ilk. He was a middleweight champion, but he wasn't European or world, but he was a British middleweight champion. Which is still a huge achievement. Huge achievement. Anyway, so this kid was trolling him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah, I think, you know, I think part of the issue is as well, Joe, is that just people, we're tribal by nature. We don't want to alienate people in our tribe or people who we perceive to be in our tribe. So we just go along with things when we really shouldn't.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
It's like, I'm going to be honest, even on our show, when I have to do a question that I know is going to challenge a guest, there comes a point where I'm like... But you've got to push through. You've got to do it. You've got to do it. And you've got to ask the question. You have to ask them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And I think we live in a culture, and I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, where we just seek comfort all the time. And then we never actually push through. And we never go, I'm going to make myself uncomfortable. And by being uncomfortable...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
actually, maybe we're all going to come out a little bit better out of this because I'm going to come out a little bit better because I'm going to be braver. And maybe like my thought or my opinion on something, it's going to be found out to be bullshit. And that's going to be great for me. Or maybe my argument isn't as sharp as I initially thought.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And for instance, if we're having a discussion, you go, hey, Francis, what about ABCD? And I'm like, ah, I didn't think about any of that. This sounded great in my head, but actually it's pretty simplistic and one-dimensional. And if I challenge you, the same thing happens to you. You go, you know what? Yeah, I can see that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But if nobody's prepared to do that, then all that happens is we sit in our little silo with our own bullshit little ideas that actually when the rubber hits the road, they don't work in reality. And what's more, it's not just that they don't work, it's that they're actually detrimental and destructive to human beings.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
This happened about 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago. And this kid was trolling him online and saying all this horrendous stuff. And the guy just responded. He went, right, I've had enough now and I'm coming to find you. And the kid was just like, ah, yeah, you're going to come and find me. And he goes, bro, I know you live in Birmingham. And the kid's like, yeah, but Birmingham's a big place.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah, and it just becomes about ego, man. It's like, this is my team. We are going to win at all costs. And then once you start thinking that, you just go, well, if this person is challenging me, it doesn't matter how legitimate the challenge is. Actually, if I go and destroy them for whatever, even if it's an underhand means, my team still wins. That's okay.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And that's what... Look, if you... The vast majority of people, when it boils down to it, they don't care about team left. They don't care about team right. They just want a better country. I want a better America. I want to come to America and go, this is the greatest country in the world. And I want to come to Britain and go, this is the greatest country in the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I mean, we'd never say that because we're British. I mean, if someone said that in Britain, you're like, dude, you're mentally ill. I think Ellen's generous just said it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And she'll soon get disavowed of that notion. I think she's already in a squabble with her neighbors. She is.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. I mean, there is nothing more British than that. Someone coming around and going, have you got approval for that? We're going to need to see 10 reams of 10 documents. Have you signed?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But that's, look, I think that's what everybody here wants. I want America to be incredible, great, a brilliant country. I want that for my country as well. And I'll be honest with you. I always normally sided with the left because I thought that was a way of doing it. But right now, I don't care. I just want the best people to come out and work for the country. You're going to make mistakes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You're going to fuck it up. You're going to say dumb stuff. I say dumb stuff. You're going to put in procedures that don't work. We all get that. But what I want and what I think the vast majority of people want is people not on Team X or Team Y, but on Team Britain and Team America.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
He went, no, I know people and we will get your address. And then so he then started posting photos on his Twitter going, driving to Birmingham to see you. And then he went, oh, and then he took a photo of the sign of his town and went, I'm coming to see you. And then he took a photo at the bottom of his road and he went, you best come out because we're going to be talking.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You know, there are moments like the homelessness situation in this country is so crazy. But there's moments where it's just really funny. We were walking down the street in D.C. and there was this this lady and she was obviously very mentally unwell. She looked at me and then she went Ashkenazi and then said something which was a clearly anti-Semitic slur. And I was like, whoa.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And they looked at Constantine and went.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And the kid just went, and just apologized. And he went, that's cool, bro. And he just went, knocked on his door and had a conversation with him. Jesus. And he was just like, look.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. That's crazy. In the whole country? Yeah. I remember when I went to- That's called camping in China, though, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I mean, have you been to China, Joe?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Not going there? Fuck that. It's an interesting country. I went there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Do you know, I went there in 2006 in Beijing, and the pollution was so bad, you couldn't really see the sun at midday. Wow. The sun was like an orange lozenge in the sky.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
It was just like this little fat kid.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
And it's so interesting when you go there as well. I remember we were driving down the road and China is just this kind of the roads is everybody cuts each other up. Everybody's trying to get one up on the other one. It's complete chaos. You're driving down. Someone will literally cut in front of you. The person will cut in front of them, cut in front of them. And that's how it is.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
until the secret police drive by in their cars, and they make this sound. They go... And then everybody falls into line, drives perfectly. The secret police car just glides through. Everybody's on their best behavior. Then the car goes, and everyone's back to going... And you're like, that is fascinating.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You know, this is, I'm not sure if I should, anyway, a friend of a friend, no, she's not. She's a friend of mine. She was saying that she grew up in East London. She said, and I believed her because the story was so outlandish that she knew a guy who basically used to, he was a hitman, used to contract killing. Wow. But he loved animals. Aw. Really passionate about animals.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
No, no, no, no. He was big on conservation, Joe. Oh, okay. So six months of the year, he would do contract killings in London. And the other six months, he would use that money to go and fund to live in Africa where he would kill poachers.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And I was like, really? She was like, yeah, yeah. He's just passionate about wildlife and conservation.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. And a team of dogs and whatever else.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. Yeah, you've never heard them shag outside your bedroom window at three in the morning. I heard the other day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. There's something about that small dog energy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I've been kept up many a night for hearing animals having far better sex than I could ever dream of.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
That's the thing actually I love about America is your wildlife. It's wild. It's wild. I was with Red Band doing his gig, The Secret Show, and he showed me footage from his garden. They had a mountain lion, a cougar coming. No, it wasn't a cougar. It was a wild cat. Bobcat? Bobcat. That was it. A bobcat came into his garden. This thing is like a small puma, and it had its cubs with it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
You know, my dad in the 70s used to work for the council in East London, like local government. And he was saying that there was a guy who owned a scrapyard and was so pissed that people were stealing scrap. He bought on the black market a lion to guard his scrapyard. Oh, that's a good move. And just chained it up.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Wait a minute. You have had him on. Because I listened to the episode, Joe.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Can you imagine jumping over into someone's yard because you want to steal something and you're confronted by a lion?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah, also, don't wind up the monster. Don't take the piss.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Well, this is it. It's a maximum security prison. So the answer, I think, is we don't know at this moment.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
But this is also a large part of why this happened is because of illegal immigration. So you had this. And look, I'm half Venezuelan. You had Tren de Aragua, which causes chaos in Venezuela. It comes to the U.S. It causes horrendous amounts of chaos in the U.S. And that's awful. But also as well is an ordinary, decent, hardworking Venezuelan.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
So all they want to do, their entire country has gone to shit. who have come here legally, they just want to work. They want to get ahead. They have jobs. They just have got families. They're trying to make ends meet. And all of a sudden, all you hear is Venezuelan does this, Venezuelan does that. And you're like, oh my God, man. You know, it tars all of us with that brush.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I was walking in New York and I saw this group of this Venezuelan family and they were there begging for money and for whatever else. And maybe it just hits harder because, you know, they're from where I'm from or where my mom's from. And you just go, it just tarnishes all of us with the same brush.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
When the reality is, like we were saying before, most of them are just good, decent, hardworking people. But because you don't have checks and balances in place, because you're not letting people, you're not vetting people, you're getting the worse of society. And the worse of society gives everybody else a bad name.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. It's just, you know, it's awful that, you know, because you put yourself in that person's shoes. Yeah. And... What's terrifying about that is that you think about what that poor guy is going through. If this story is real, what that guy is going through, that is literally the stuff of nightmares. That's literally the stuff of nightmares. You have no recourse to any type of justice.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
There's no due process. You get rounded up. You then get kicked out of the country. You're in a maximum security prison with some of the most... vicious gang members.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Is that the Korean girl from Columbia University? I don't know. That's a different one. There's so many of them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Joe, sorry, could I have the lighter, please? Yeah, sure. Thank you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
No, that's a Korean girl at Columbia University, Joe. Oh, okay.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yes, they're talking about deporting her. But I don't know enough about that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
I don't know enough about it. Jamie, if you get it up, then we can have a look at it. But that's the one you're thinking of. The girl who'd been here since she was seven is a Columbia student.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2297 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the goal. You know, we're rapidly approaching the time where America and the UK is going to have a pretty uncomfortable debate as to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable when it comes to dealing with people who come here illegally, people who commit crime or even if they attend protests illegally. Where is the line? Because we're going to have to make a decision.