Dylan Mulvaney
Appearances
The Charlie Kirk Show
THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 71 — Airline DEI Again! Fed Redditors? Gayest Movie Ever?
That's why I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash.
The Charlie Kirk Show
THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 71 — Airline DEI Again! Fed Redditors? Gayest Movie Ever?
Nice to meet you. I'd like to know about sex change operations. I see, I see, I see. Men to women. A woman to men. Man to woman. From penis to vagina. Would you like to know about it, madam? I want to know it all. Control laryngoplasty. What is that? Adam's out for reduction. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
The Charlie Kirk Show
THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 71 — Airline DEI Again! Fed Redditors? Gayest Movie Ever?
that's true it's all right we'll play 218 and then we're gonna we're gonna call the show a wrap let's play cut 218 for me what would you like to know about it i want to know it all what is the protocol the techniques and the risks how many operations how much time do What is that? Adam's apple reduction. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
In the shower. On a walk. The Dylan Hour. Feeling sweet. Feeling sour. I feel nothing. The Dylan Hour. My couch is open. It's better than therapy. All you soccer moms. All you days and thems. All you bottom boys. My bisexual femmes. Come one and all. Disassociate with me. It's free. Grab a drink. Or two or three. You have no friends. All good. You got me. It's the Dylan Hour.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
It took a lot to not feel guilty about that experience because I felt like it was my fault. And in that me taking this one brand deal was affecting trans people globally. I think extremists and transphobic media needed a poster child, but I would have never taken any deal that I thought could negatively impact me or the community. It resulted in a lot of suicidal ideation and dissociation.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
I'm still battling with some of that guilt and that shame and that dysphoria that was projected onto me during that time.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
We're going to the premiere of Will and Harper on Netflix, which is Will Ferrell. And I know you're a fan of his, right?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
Okay, good. And you always say you'd like to go to an event like this. So I'm down. We're going to do it. But my bitter is that I'm already preemptively a little nervous about what you're going to say to people.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
So let's practice this.
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
When somebody says, so, Jim, what'd you think of the movie?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
Oh, good. Excellent. Oh, what's it like being Dylan's dad?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
Like you saw that I was a very feminine kid. Yeah. And so was it like a super surprise to you when I came out?
The Megyn Kelly Show
Petitos Speak Out About New Doc, and "Snow White" Controversies and Baldwins Red Carpet Drama, with Link Lauren and Christian Toto | Ep. 1031
Hopefully, we don't get our rights taken away.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And one of my favorite episodes, well, actually two parts if you haven't listened to it, which I'm sure everyone has because it's amazing. But Alex and I met working on Alok's doc, who is one of my best friends. And Alex was, you know, directing me in this short film. And... When we met, we started spending time together and Alex was like, I don't know about this whole TikTok thing.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It was so crazy to try to synthesize to someone that experience. Yeah. And it was at that meal with Alex. Alex was like, I think you need to read this book, Untamed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I had already – it's funny because I had been listening to the pod. I was like a pod follower but not – hadn't done the book yet. And that was about – that was exactly a year ago that I started the audiobook of Untamed. And – It came at the exact right time that I needed. I feel so lucky. I remember being in the middle of the book and then able to like voice note you was such a God.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But I mean, that's all that TikTok gave me was the opportunity to do that. And fuck yeah, I'm still in. I knew that that moment happened for a reason and that Alex connected us. And I just, it just kismet in many ways.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
So essentially, I sort of became this trans poster child, not only for, you know, social media, but for like big brands.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I don't know why I thought that putting a piece of duct tape on my mouth was going to like get me 12 hours. And then what also confuses me about this one is there's a hole in it. And I feel like isn't that defeat the purpose? So I started eating these like hot chips last night through the hole. And then I had to take it off to brush my teeth. So I was a little tired this morning.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I had no idea, like... When I was doing, you know, a Broadway show, I thought that was it, babe. Like, that was the most amount of money you could ever make. I was sitting pretty. I was like, this is everything. So there was no part of me that on social media thought you could make money from that. I thought that was our fun at the end of the day. And I was doing catering gigs.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And then maybe... 15 days into hosting, you know, Days of Girlhood videos, I got this offer. I think the first one I got was for like maybe OkCupid. It was like a dating app. And it had these numbers where I was like, oh my God. I was like... This is like, I could, what? So I started doing these ads thinking it felt creative. I was writing these little scripts.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I was making jokes and having the time of my life. And I didn't realize how they were kind of, I was their diversity hire. You know, a lot of these companies had never worked with a trans person before. And I think that was special, you know, when they did it right. And when they kind of let me make content that felt separate from my identity.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But I remember doing this food delivery app where I like sent them a really funny script and they were like, could you actually just talk a little bit more about your childhood trauma and how it was really difficult growing up to like be, you know, a trans person. And I was like, we're talking about delivering like groceries to my house. Yeah. But I did because I thought I owed them that.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I sort of became this little capitalist robot because I didn't know what was happening to me. And I didn't know that I was capitalizing on my identity. And so I got really comfortable. I talk about this in the book of like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
At times, I think because I was comparing myself to these other influencers that were cis girls online that were doing the same brand deals and going to the same events, and I would sometimes forget that I couldn't operate the same way they did and be as comfortable as they did because I didn't hold that level of privilege.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I have what I believe to be probably the highest level of privilege as a trans woman in this world, but it's still not... what some of these other girls can get away with. And so I love beer. I always have. It's kind of been like my go-to. And it was funny.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I even just a few weeks ago, a friend sent me a video of me shotgunning a beer when I was probably, you know, 21 in the backyard of like a college frat party. And I was like, see, I did take it for the right reason. But I took the gig not for one second thinking, oh, this could go south.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
You know, I would have never signed up for something that would potentially cause me pain or the community pain or even a brand. If I thought this was going to negatively affect a brand, I wouldn't have done it. I thought this was going to be great for everyone. So I posted one video, was fine. Carried on with my life. This was right after my first year of transition.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I had done this big show at the Rainbow Room. It was very Broadway. And I mean, that was like the happiest time of my life. And then... The second video comes out. It was April 1st, I believe. So it did kind of all feel like April Fool's. And I remember it was actually I was singing at this thing called Miscast Cabaret in New York City with, you know, Ben Platt and Rachel Ziegler.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And it was like one of those. It felt like this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, this is my dream. All the things that I've been doing propelled me to this moment. And well, a casting director came up to me right after the show was like, oh, my God, I've been seeing all this hate that you're getting. I can't imagine how you're navigating it. I'm like, what?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
So I had my morning Dr. Pepper. And then I said, I don't think they're going to judge me for being in bed.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Like, I had no idea what she was talking about. And because I was just I was riding high. And so then I go and I like do a little Google, which is so dangerous. Never Google yourself. Worst thing ever. And I go, oh, no. And then I remember the next day, you know, a certain country star shot at some cans in my name.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But there was never a part of me that thought that this would go on or that this would become, you know, bigger than it was at that time. And I remember being like really frustrated, like, well, this is throwing a damper in my day. Yeah. And little did I know that it was going to be the damper of potentially my life, if not the last year of it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I was just confused because I always gave the benefit of the doubt to this brand, to society as a whole. I was like, well, I'm trying to be a good person and they're going to be good people and we're going to fix this together. And then that never happened. And I will say, saying we can do hard things, I was thinking this morning about what is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It's my favorite place in the entire world. I like to do everything in here. I eat. I write. I talk to you. And I just think we're about to have the best hour of our lives.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And at first it was like, oh, maybe is it to come out as a trans woman? I was like, no. I was like, that was actually rather easy because it was so authentically me. It was so right. But the hardest thing was to make the video that said, hey... this, you know, beer gate has happened. This is what really happened. And I need to tell you all because this isn't okay. And I'm not okay.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And this can't happen to other people. And why that was such a hard decision was, A, I was like, I don't want to hurt this brand. I don't want to make things worse for anyone involved. I was such a people pleaser. And that became even to the corporate level. And then B, you know, my team behind me that works with me, they did not think that fueling the fire was a good idea of me speaking on this.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But it sat on my chest like an elephant.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
and I write about this in the book, the way that kind of my creativity works in the way that I share, especially online is like, if I need to say something and I can't say it, I can't make anything else. That's the only thing that's playing over and over in my mind. So for two months, I sat in this bed, which was once like my sanctuary and then became this kind of hellscape with
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
people outside and being followed. And I felt so small, but there was this little sliver of a fight left in me. And I remember I'd waited two months and it still had not gotten better. And this was the beginning or no, this is even the end of pride month. Like we had made it through pride and pride was so bleak that year still is very awkward.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I was like, I owe it to all of these people that followed me and that loved me and that have supported me. I owe it to them. And I thought a lot about the young people following me and setting an example of the internet. We talk about how negative it can be. And I knew that there were trans teens and young people seeing all these hate videos and reading those comments.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I was like, I need to show them that... I'm stronger than this and that this isn't okay and that I might not be okay right now, but I need them to know that we can't allow this to be a thing. And I felt really responsible because up until that point, I didn't know that what I was posting and what... my general moves were could affect the rest of the trans community in a big way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I realized that I became this poster child for the far right and for these extremists. And they were taking every word I said, combed through with this, you know, just the finest comb possible and taking anything out of context to use it against me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I'm not an activist. And I really like to make that clear everywhere I go, any, you know, interview I do, because when I came out as trans, I think people that's what people wanted me to be because of my identity. But I sing and I dance and I write jokes. So I then had to realize, like, oh, my God, this extreme weight, not only the weight of like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
sharing my truth, but now also of not fucking it up for the rest of these amazing, beautiful humans and these young people felt like it was on my shoulders. And so I had to outsource. And I talked with GLAAD. I talked with Human Rights Campaign. I, you know, talked to people like Alok and one of my mentors, Our Lady J. All of these
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
people behind the scenes helping me navigate and a huge help actually is, is another mutual friend of Alex's, which is Maury Fontanez. She's my life coach. Thank God I was with her before beer gate, because I remember I called her crying and I was like, it's on the news. It's on the news. And she was like, baby, get ready. She was like, you just this, you just got a little bit more famous.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I was like, I don't think I like this. And yeah, She really has kind of helped me learn how to operate from my higher self and make decisions for my higher self. And actually her book came out today as well. It's called Higher Self. And it feels very kismet that one of my favorite people on earth is having a book come out as well today.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It's very... They present their case.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I remember that time and being so proud that I was able to speak my truth. And that's what a lot of the what's crazy about the book, too, is that it was originally written. It's called Paper Doll, first of all. And it it was originally supposed to be 365 days of like trans joy and fluff. And after Beer Gate happened and, you know, I had done this book deal before my first year was even done.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Oh my God. And Amanda, I'm so excited to finally talk to you because Glennon so graciously did my podcast and the theme was sisterhood. And we talked a lot about what that meant to both of us. And I got to hear so much about you and I just kind of knew that we were already going to love each other. And Abby, I grew up at that Catholic church too. I was listening to the
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
So I was like, this is going to be a breeze. And then it came time to write it. And I was like, oh, my God, how do I feel now? deeply depressed. I feel disassociative. I feel isolated and alone. How do I manufacture that right now? But what I did have was I had a lot of journal entries for my first year.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And, and then I was like, well, what if I separately write some essays about what's going on in my life right now? And so what I ended up coming out with is like A mess, a really beautiful, fun mess of like these joyous early days of transition through a journal entry and deeply personal things that people didn't get to see online. And then these essays about how I navigated out of the...
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
media firestorm that I was under and who helped me and how Stella got her groove back. And in a way that felt very, you know, love warrior versus untamed because I, I was grappling with like, am I allowed to show people this side of myself? Am I allowed to curse? Am I allowed to talk about having sex? Am I allowed to be something other than this infantilized character that people have made me be?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And that's where the title Paper Doll kind of came about because I think people started to see me as this like two dimensional depiction of trans womanhood. And I decided that that's not what I want to be. And, and how exciting is that?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
That's what. Yes. And I think that's what's really interesting because there might even be a few listeners that feel conflicted about me because of how I've been portrayed and how I even portrayed myself early on. And I think what I always ask for is patience, especially like if you think about
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Your teen years and the awkwardness that is finding your womanhood and what that means and the fucking dumb, weird things you wear and say, trying to be cool or trying to be taken seriously. I was like going through my awkward years. Totally. And I now, when I talk to trans women that have been doing this for 30, 40, 50 years... I'm still a baby trans person at three years, you know?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I guess if it was dog years, I'm like 21. But I think what is so frustrating is that I find femininity to be quite effortless for me, which is so... And we talked about this, Glennon. You asked me on my pod, you said, what is femininity to you? What does it feel like? And I said... buoyancy. And I said, lightness. And it's a bit effortless.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Melissa McCarthy episode and was like, yep, can relate. I had a similar sort of nun experience where she said that animals don't go to heaven. And I said, you're wrong. And that got me grounded for like two weeks or so.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And it's funny because I think about all the things that I do to feel feminine and many things that I don't have to do at all because I just am. But even all those things that I put hours of time, whether that's surgery or hormones or electrolysis or whatever that might be, it still feels effortless for me. And where the effort comes in
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
is trying to prove to people that it's effortless to me and that they actually make it so much harder for me to access my womanhood because of the pushback and of the impatience. And I will say, I think there was a lot of trans people watching my journey that maybe didn't fully know, like, do we sign off on this girl? Oh God, there she goes again. Because I was so earnest and I was so excited.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And it was like, I finally got invited to the party. And so I went all out. And then when this fall from grace happened through Beergate, I think there was a lot of trans people that were like, yes, greetings, loved one, that this is the reality of the situation. And thank God that happened. I mean, I'm still getting to the place where like, how can I see this as a blessing?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I now know that this happened for a reason. I think what I'm still waiting for is... the pink satin bow that goes on like why it all happened. And I don't think it's going to be for a very long time, especially with where we're at politically and, you know, with legislation for trans people. I think this is going to be a much larger conversation.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And that was what's, I mean, back to mouth tape for a second. I was looking for the mouth tape of the situation of like, what's the quick fix here? How do I fix this absolute mess of, And then realizing that it wasn't only my mess. This is also the mess of a lot of other things in many years of just being looked down upon and being othered. So I think that that's what I do look forward to is like,
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
finding the good of the situation. And the more that I can use that darkness and that situation that I went through to help others or to talk about it so that it doesn't happen again, that's a good thing, I think.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Oh, no, no, no. No. I did kiss the Pope's ring once.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It's like a celebrity sighting. Well, that was actually maybe my first celebrity I ever met. I was 12 years old. My dad took me to Rome to see the Rolling Stones. And so in the same day, we met the Pope and I kissed his ring. And then I met some of the Rolling Stones and I didn't really care. But I was told that that was big for some people.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Well, but the craziest part is that I was earnest enough to believe that I could be, you know what? I'm going to go walk over there and I'm going to crack open a beer with them. And because I grew up, most of my family is very conservative. And, you know, I grew up, there's some dead animals on the wall. And I think that that's what
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
helped me attempt to see eye to eye and to include everyone was that I was raised in a way that I knew that I was like, well, I know I'm going to be liberal and I know I feel this way and I know I'm queer and I know I'm trans. And yet I was still around all these people and that they learned to love me and my family, I'm really lucky, still does.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And we are in communication and it's tricky and it's complicated, but the love is still there. And that's what I think was also really hard. And I'm still trying to figure that out currently of like, how do I not give up on an entire group of people that should know trans people and should. And what I think is really difficult is to go, okay, you know what?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
maybe I'm not their trans person anymore. Those people that don't understand, I think it maybe has to be somebody else because for whatever reason, their idea of me is so far tainted that it's so far gone that I can't help or I can't teach or I can't connect. But I know on a personal level with my family and them having different views than I do, which can be frustrating.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
that love is still possible. And that I think is enough for me to keep trying and to keep making content and to... keep putting myself out there and being wildly feminine and still loving pink and not being ashamed of it. But back, Abby, you know, you talked about like that ribbon of like seeing a younger generation now not have to make those same moves or explain the same way.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I talk about this in the book a lot, but I went and did ayahuasca down in Peru. And the main thing that came up while I was on it was that A lot of queer children and trans kids and just everyone in general hasn't experienced like unconditional love.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And if I, through my screen or wherever it is that I'm connecting with people, can show that and can also almost be like a bit of like a maternal energy to maybe people that don't have that or are lacking that. I need to lean into that. And so it was very healing when I went and did that. And actually, I guess I'll just say on this pod, like Ted Cruz appeared to me in an ayahuasca.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I think I'm the only trans woman who's done ayahuasca that has had Ted Cruz appear to her while she's in Peru. And I remember being like, what the fuck are you doing here? And this mother ayahuasca was basically like, these people, someone like this person, lacks true unconditional love and, like, a mother's love and what that really looks like. And so... do not fight fire with fire.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
That was what's also tricky is like, there's been a few times where I've done some like little backhand, you know, trying to kind of poke the bear and get back at them. And people love that because they love to see the rise. They want to see me a little angry. They want to know that it affects me in some way. Even if I'm coming at it with still with humor and love, but it's still poking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But you know who I really do want to meet is Cher and Glennon. I got the video. I got the video. I saw what happened on that stage. I never want you to talk about being meek or small or anything ever again, because that was Cher. You are Cher.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And it was like, don't go that direction. Try to just carry... I think the best weapon I have is my trans joy. And the more I can win, and the more that I can show and share my wins, the more that... they lose because their whole goal is for someone like me to not be able to have wins and to feel a lack of joy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And that's why when I think of like allyship, I think if there's any world in which you could help a trans or a queer person win right now, whatever that might look like, whatever platform big or small that might be, that's the way that we witness is through helping,
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I think I now, because of my actions of going online, sharing my identity in this way, I have a responsibility to educate myself as much as I can. Because then when I am on a platform or doing an interview, writing a book, I now need to have put in a certain level of effort.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I'm getting much better too at understanding if something's above my area of expertise of being able to throw that to someone else. I write about in the book too, going to the White House and interviewing the president. What the hell? That was not my gig. How did that happen? And I now wouldn't take that gig, but early on enough, I thought that I was supposed to.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But sometimes I think about having... had none of this happened, had I not put that video up there that first day, I was about to like apply to my local bookstore, Book Soup in West Hollywood as like a sales associate. And I sometimes like fantasize about, oh, what would it have looked like that way had I kept it all to myself? And I don't want to go there because that is ultimately regret.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But I think that When I take away all of the external pieces and if I am just with myself, I'm good. I've got me. I know who I am. I love who I am. I love my womanhood. And it's when the noise comes in and when... Other people have access to me and my person that that changes. And so I think I'm starting to test my limits of like this big theme for this year is safety.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And it was on my bucket list to like see Cher live. And now I just want to see you as Cher live.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Also, funny enough, I'm really into vision boards. Haven't even made mine because this year is so uncharted that I'm like and safety is the top priority right now. It's like got to get through. But I am kind of testing the waters right now of like how... How much can I put out there without it making it on the news? And who should I surround myself with that makes me feel the most in my womanhood?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Yeah, it's the Mercury retrograde. This past year was the Stella got her groove back kind of. I hadn't felt joy that after Beer Gate for about a year, maybe actually a year and a half, I did not feel joy, like pure joy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And then it was this past summer, I was in Edinburgh Fringe Festival doing a one-woman show that I wrote about kind of all of this and getting to put it to music and make people laugh. I looked out at the audience and I started crying. My first, oh God, now I'm crying on here. I thought that wasn't going to happen. I looked out at the audience and I thought, oh my God, I feel joy again.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And it was almost scary because I didn't think it was going to be possible. Mm-hmm. And I was so grateful because I didn't know if I was going to have to live the rest of my life feeling like that. And I didn't want to talk about it or tell people that I felt that way because I didn't want them to feel the burden of knowing that that's how I felt.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I felt like I had this responsibility of like being this person that people come to to be happy or to make them laugh at the end of the day or they liked my pretty
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
outfits on instagram that that's what they wanted and so it felt so good to be able to tell people after something like that that you will feel you can't feel joy again and and so that i think this year has felt like a black mirror episode in some ways and then also like a dream but yeah sorry i just went off on a tangent there so beautiful
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Thank you. It's hard for me to accept that, but I'm going to think about it until the next time we talk. I think that that's also what's so crazy about meeting trans people. And I guess like I'm biased because, you know, when I meet a trans person, I'm like, oh my God, it's my, it's my people.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But I'm like, this person has had to jump through so many hoops and has, you know, has woken up every single day and has leaned in to their true selves to the point where they've externalized it and are willing to share that with me or with the world. And I just, I don't understand why. People are so scared of that when it is so fucking awesome. And talk about cool.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I don't think of myself as cool at all, but I think transness is cool. And that's also, I think it's like, hopefully this younger generation, they aren't even having to come out. They're just like doing the damn thing. But I can only hope that they don't have to experience the level of vitriol that's currently happening.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It's so crazy that it's politicized too in the way it is and sad. It's sad. And that's why I still think joy is the answer.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Yes. Deal. Yes. I will say it's so easy to hear the negative. It's so much louder. And I think I now look at my life and the people that are around me, and I'm like, this is the people that you've looked up to, the people that you've loved. I sat in my... God, this is just so weird.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I just remember sitting in my... I was driving up to my West Hollywood apartment, listening to this podcast and thinking, oh, what does this life now have to bring in this new chapter? And I want to thank you so much because... And even with the book coming out, I think it's going to be a lot of some of that negative. And I have to remember that there is a community here.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And the one you got here is a really good one. And you've cultivated that. So that's no small feat. And I'm proud of you. And I'm proud of all of us for showing up. But I just love you. And I can't wait to keep talking.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Cringe is in. Thank God. It's my moment. It's all our moments. And we've got to take it. We've got to run with it. And then I was doom scrolling at about 430 a.m. last night. And I see a video of Cher on a talk show. And she said, oh, God, I wrote it down because I loved it so much. She talked about how she was like wished that she was kind of a little bit more bad, like a bad.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
She was like, I was a bad girl, but I wish I was worse when I was younger.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I'm 28 right now. I just turned 28. I'm definitely, we'll talk Saturn return and, you know, I'm entering a very interesting period of my life. But I am like, wait, maybe I should be a little bit more bad girl before I like clean up shop and become Pollyanna. Yes. I love that she looks back and is like, oh, I should. I've never heard anyone say I should have been worse.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I feel like that all the time. You looked good, honey. Thank you.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Moms are my favorite people in the world. Right. And if I could just be around moms all the time, that's would be preferred. Hello to the moms. So if I'm just meeting you on this podcast, hello. I love you. My name is Dylan Mulvaney. My pronouns are she, they. I am a cringe musical theater girl from San Diego, California. And I am a proud trans woman.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I'm just trying to figure it out like the rest of us. And generally pretty chill. happy when you know the world isn't throwing too much bullshit my way but I think ultimately I'm a musical theater girl at heart and I love the color pink and I love to be in my bed which I'm in right now there you go you've already won them all over Dylan
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
But this is yes. So the book is out March 11th. And that is my three year anniversary of sort of my days of girlhood series, which was a very happy accident. I was doing stand up comedy in L.A., Because I used to be... Well, I still am a Broadway performer. But when COVID shut all the Broadway shows down, I was doing Book of Mormon, the musical, and I was touring it.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I knew that theater was going to be the last thing to come back because we're all sitting in a theater. So I moved to LA. I started doing stand-up. And I was driving around town, you know, to do comedy for 12 people that weren't even interested in listening. And then I started posting on TikTok these videos of telling the same jokes. And all of a sudden...
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
you know, you've got 50,000 people watching instead of 12 people. And I said, wow, this is a lot less driving. But then I was coming out as a, well, I've come out a few times in my life. And I think that was the last one on March 11th of 2022, maybe now. And I was like, God, this is so embarrassing. Like it's so millennial core to be like making these like
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
crazy heartfelt coming out videos and because I had you know came out as gay well I came out to my mom when I was four as a girl and that didn't necessarily work out quite yet so I was like well I guess being gay is the next best thing so I very much was like this little twink running about San Diego doing musicals and that was kind of my safe place and I remember I
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
the coming out process, just, you know, I never had that much shame about it. It was the people and the church and everything that made me feel shame. And I remember, um, in Catholic school, I went to confession when I was 14 and one of the priests, I was like the best Catholic kid. And I told the priest my, you know, very few limited sins.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Hi! Hi honey, how are you? Hi, everyone. I'm in bed. But I figured if there was any podcast that I could do from this bed, it would be this one.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Maybe I cursed, you know, maybe I, um, you know, disrespected my parents. And then one of my sins had to do with being gay in some way. And he was like, well, I can't absolve your sins. And I thought, well, that's just insane because everything else I've been doing right. And so I kind of flipped a little bit. And that was a very bad girl era, I guess, because I just felt so reckless.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I knew that puberty had brought up a lot of my transness and what was happening to my body. And I knew that It was not the body that I was supposed to be in. But I lived out my dream of, you know, being in a Broadway musical and I was playing this Mormon boy. And it was this very bittersweet thing of like, oh, I am technically doing what I love, but it's not something's not right.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
So when the pandemic hit. I started seeing, you know, on TikTok was the first place that I saw trans people other than like Laverne Cox on Orange is the New Black. I didn't know trans people. And I was seeing these amazing content creators. I was seeing non-binary people, which was kind of this other foreign idea to me.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I decided that the idea of becoming or stepping into my my womanhood was so far away and so scary. And how do I get there that I was like, oh, well, non-binary doesn't sound so bad. So I I went by they them pronouns for about a year and a half before that first days of girlhood video started.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I think of that as like kind of like if it was like Super Mario Kart, I like hopped onto like a little cloud for that second before really launching into the game. And it kind of unlocked everything because I think when you start to question your gender, it unlocks every part of you and identity. It started making these videos like it's a day question of the day. And I was
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
talking about what my experience of being non-binary was. But actually through making those videos, I was like, well, and now I'm taking hormones and now I'm growing boobs. And so I think maybe some people watched that first video that I had made of my Days of Girlhood series and thought like, oh, did she just like wake up that day and decide like, Oh, that sounds fun.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It's perfection. Well, I didn't sleep very well last night because I'm trying to sleep tape. Have you seen this on the it's kind of everywhere right now?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
No, I had been, I mean, this had been my whole life was like preparing for that moment. And I had already, you know, talked to my friends and family, but I was like, we got to find some comedy in the coming out video. So I did what was more so just like a silly, you know, day one of being a girl. And, you know, here I am, how'd I do ladies?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And it blew up in a way that I just couldn't have ever expected. And there was a lot of, you know, initial, push back and hate. And then there was some good people too. But I only made the second video as almost like a follow-up apology of like, no, it's day two and that's not what I meant. And then, well, maybe on day three, I can show them that I'm actually not a horrible person.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And on day four, I can show them this. So it started as this like, oh God, I got to clean up this mess in a way. And then It turned into the most beautiful thing because I was like, wait, I'm I'm sharing things with people that I think maybe is helping them or helping them understand that. I didn't know how transness fully worked.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I was a brand new, fresh trans person kind of trying to figure it out. And I think that was what was really beautiful about it was to let people in on that experience with me. And that's what's so crazy going back to your kids. I'm on that millennial cusp. So I can't believe that, you know, Gen Z really took to me and they supported me. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm so cringe. Wait.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
It's like it keeps your mouth shut, which is good because I always want to go.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I think it's just because, you know, growing up, I didn't have a lot of people to watch. Like if I had maybe more trans people to see on television or, in the media, I think that it would have unlocked something for me a lot earlier. And it's so sad that it's still so limited, the sort of the trans visibility of it all. But yeah, TikTok was this thing that, that blew me up.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And, and then I, I've been trying to navigate that ever since it's been three years, which is crazy.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I did not. The first... trans non-binary person I met was ER Fightmaster, who was like the first non-binary doctor on Grey's Anatomy and is now one of like my bestest friends. And we were doing, um, it was like a UCB show for, it was comedy. And I was during Book of Mormon in LA. And I remember looking at this person and being like, what's going on here?
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And I was like, your name's Fightmaster, which I was like, that's fucking awesome. Can I curse? Yes. Um, okay. Thank God. And I, I was like, there's something about this human that is so in their power and is so confident and beautiful and funny. That was giving me permission. You know, this is someone who leans on the masculine side of things. And I was like, but I see myself in this person.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Mm-hmm. And then I had a classmate, Elle Duran, who we went to college together at the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music, which was not a very, I think it's a lot has changed, but it wasn't at the time very open to boys leaning into femininity. And I watched her start to make videos on her transness during the pandemic. And I was like, wait, this is someone I like went to school with.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And we had this past life together. And so I do think seeing other people live their life so authentically does unlock something, you know, whether it's about gender or sexuality or whatever that might be. And that's really what social media kind of did for me during that time.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
I do like retro things, but I'm not in my cassette era yet. No, but this sleep tape, I think I got it. I'm kind of of the camp where I think if I get one thing, it's going to change my entire life and everything will be fixed. So I bought this because, you know, they said it snatches your jaw and you get the best night's sleep of your life. I have like insomnia.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
Well, it's kind of made sense. most of my dreams happen. I didn't grow up in the industry. You know, my dad's in insurance, my mom was a nurse. And I think had I not put myself out there, I don't think I would have this book coming out today. I don't, I don't think a lot of these things would have happened.
We Can Do Hard Things
Dylan Mulvaney On the Hardest Thing She’s Ever Done
And so I am really grateful, but I also know what it's done to me psychologically and in having like There's no part of reading absolutely vile things about yourself every single day that's normal. There's nothing healthy or normal about that. And, you know, what's so funny is the reason, Glennon, that I think we're really connected is Alex Hedison, who is a dear friend to the pod.