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Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
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Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
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Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see?
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
One challenge that fraud fighters like Ian face is that scam victims sometimes feel too ashamed to discuss what happened to them. But Ian says one of our best defenses is simple.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash Zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment. Each contract you own will pay $1 on January 8th, 2025 if that candidate is confirmed as the next U.S.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at www.robinhood.com. The risk of loss in trading commodity interests can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives A registered futures commission merchant and swap firm Exchange and regulatory fees apply Learn more at www.robinhood.com slash election
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
AI requires a different approach to storage. Solidigm is ready for everything the AI era demands. Learn more at storageforai.com.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Support for this episode comes from Microsoft. Did you know one in 43 US children have had their personal information exposed or compromised? Scammers are targeting our kids online, especially on social media, where unmonitored conversations can easily lead to identity theft. We need better tools to protect our loved ones to stay ahead.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
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Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Visit Microsoft365.com slash Defender.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Psychedelics, so hot right now. Studies are showing they can help with PTSD, depression, even addiction.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
But there's been kind of this, like, major problem lurking under those positive results.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
It's basically impossible to take a psychedelic and not know that you've taken a psychedelic, which makes it pretty hard to have things like placebos or controlled trials.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
And that kind of breaks the sort of fundamental logic of how researchers study how medicines work.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
This week on Unexplainable, how psychedelics might be exposing some major cracks in the foundation of scientific research. Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Wednesday.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
This week on ProfgMarkets, we speak with chips market expert Patrick Moyert. We discuss Intel's fall from grace, what makes NVIDIA such a strong company, and his predictions for the future of the chip industry.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
What I think I can tell you is NVIDIA will lose market share. But you know what? It doesn't matter. because the market is growing at a much higher rate that offsets any type of share shift to, let's say, AMD or these homegrown chips from the hyperscalers.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
You can find that conversation and many others exclusively on the Prof G Markets podcast.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Support for this show comes from Mercury. Business finances are complex and the solution isn't what you think. It's not another tool or even a secret. It's the bank account. The one thing every business needs. Mercury simplifies your financial operations with powerful banking, corporate credit cards, bill pay, invoicing and more all in one place. Apply in minutes at mercury.com.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment. Each contract you own will pay $1 on January 8th, 2025 if that candidate is confirmed as the next U.S.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at www.robinhood.com. The risk of loss in trading commodity interests can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition.
Decoder with Nilay Patel
How The Onion is saving itself from the digital media death spiral
Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives A registered futures commission merchant and swap firm Exchange and regulatory fees apply Learn more at www.robinhood.com slash election
Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
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Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
This episode of Nosotros los Clones is presented by Mercado Libre. The best is coming. MSI, the brand that gamers adore. Nosotros los Clones.
Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
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Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
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Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
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Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
Hola Clones, desde Guadalajara. Me gusta escucharlos en formato de podcast y también cuando puedo los pongo en YouTube para ver los videos y que ayuden a monetizar al canal. En cuanto al tema que peleaban sobre las secciones, creo que la solución es muy fácil. Que tengan programas lunes, miércoles y viernes y así cada quien puede tener una sección cada día de la semana. Saludos.
Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
Este episodio de nosotros, los clones, fue presentado por MSI, la marca que los gamers adoran. Mercado Libre, lo mejor está llegando. Nosotros, los clones. Nos escuchamos en el siguiente episodio.
Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
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Nosotros Los Clones
Terror en pantalla - NLC 138
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2198 - Bret Weinstein
Well, I could only find it in the video. I was trying to find pictures of it somewhere else. U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2198 - Bret Weinstein
I think Pfizer's is called Cominarty. It says generated $75 billion between 2021 and 2022. It doesn't include 2023. And then $36 billion for Spike Facts, which I think is... Is that Moderna?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2195 - Andrew Huberman
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at Robinhood.com slash election. The risk of loss in trading commodities interest can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2195 - Andrew Huberman
Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone. Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment. This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives. a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at Robinhood.com slash election.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2195 - Andrew Huberman
Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment. Each contract you own will pay $1 on January 8, 2025, if that candidate is confirmed as the next U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2195 - Andrew Huberman
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at Robinhood.com slash election. The risk of loss in trading commodities interest can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2195 - Andrew Huberman
Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone. Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment. This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives. a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at Robinhood.com slash election.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2195 - Andrew Huberman
Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment. Each contract you own will pay $1 on January 8, 2025, if that candidate is confirmed as the next U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, one of the things Sapolsky, 46 more times likely to become pack leaders. Incredible.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
They're 11 times more likely to leave their birth packs and do so at a younger age.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Sapolsky found out when he was doing his residence that there's a disproportionate amount of motorcycle victims. Huh. that test positive for toxo. So they test them and they find that this is one of the reasons why these guys are taking these crazy risks. Risk takers because they have toxo.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, COVID is not really because COVID was a part of like a lab experiment. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
They're 99% sure now at this point that it was all gain-of-function research that was done. There's the obscuring of the data was done purposely to try to absolve guilt from the people that funded the project because the project was funded and canceled during the Obama administration.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And then when Trump came along, there was a lot of chaos apparently, and they reignited it, and they did it through another – EcoHealth Alliance. There was a very sneaky about it. And when grilled, Fauci lied about whether or not it was gain-of-function research they were doing in the first place. There's a lot of very... There's emails back and forth. But that's beside the point.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
You dumbass. And then the prions, the fact that they can exist under thousands of degrees. Thousands of degrees. You can't kill them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do. It's not ubiquitous, but I think there have been... See if there's been cases of CWD. And I want to get to this before I forget. So the point of the Sapolsky thing was... What Sapolsky observed when these super aggressive baboons ate all of the garbage, that the garbage was contaminated, they died.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So all the aggressive ones died and they turned into this utopian society. What? Yes. And so they started grooming each other more. The males weren't aggressive anymore. The females didn't suffer the wrath of the males. And they were like hippie baboons. Wow. And it lasted for a long time.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And I think they eventually reverted back to the same sort of typical aggressive alpha male behavior as being the primary leaders of the groups. But for a long time, they existed in this very strange, atypical environment where kind baboons were taking care of each other.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Because he's got a fork. Or a spork. Or a knife where you cut up the pieces. He's got to bite pieces off with a broken jaw.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And how many of them are unfortunately going to get hit by cars because of this? And wasn't the first ever released mountain lion or a wolf, rather, that got killed, killed by a car?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I just killed a national icon. What, you couldn't hit the brakes?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But it's just, it's so fascinating that this toxoplasmosis, it could implode the population.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Oh, it's hugely prevalent. In France at one point in time, there was 50% of the population that had toxo.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. And large populations of people in both Latin America, South America, places where there's a lot of feral cats.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's a huge instance of it. Not only that, there's a disproportionate amount of people that have toxoplasmosis or in countries that have toxoplasmosis that have successful soccer teams. And they don't know if it's just because a lot of poor people, that's the best way out, become really good at soccer. Soccer is really common because everybody plays it. They don't know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But it might be that it makes you more aggressive. It makes you more interested in taking risks and a little reckless. And if you're a soccer player, I can... Probably help you to be like, just go for it and get crazy. Be more aggressive and less tentative.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I do, too. I love them. And I love wolves. I'm so fascinated by them, and I'm so interested in the whole history of them in this country, how they were sort of eradicated from most of the western states and the reintroduction of them. So you were there for all of it, right? So when you first started, they had pretty much been wiped out, except, as you said, in Minnesota.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's crazy. Do the ones with the darker coats, do they originate from denser forests?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So the earliest descriptions of wolves, did they describe them? Like what is the earliest known like written human history of wolves? Did they describe them in a particular color?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I was just getting to, like, if you're thinking about a place like the Pacific Northwest, for example, where you have dense rainforest, it would probably be a benefit to be darker. You could hide a little bit better, sneak around.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
One of the earliest written references to black wolves occurs in the Babylonian epic, oh, it's in Gilgamesh. So that's 6,000 years ago. The titular character rejects the sexual advances of the goddess Ishtar, reminding her that she had transformed a previous lover, a shepherd, into a wolf, thus turning him into the very animal that his flocks must be protected against. Whoa. Heavy. It is heavy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I would love to know what the root of that story is. Huh. Yeah. So that's so fascinating.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Disease outbreaks select for mate choice and coat color in wolves. So all dogs come from wolves. So you have wolves. Wolves get domesticated into dogs. Then some dogs reintroduce their genes into interbreeding with wolves. And somehow or another, this black coat color comes into play.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
What a friend said to me, so I want to run this by you to find out if this is true. He said that mountain lions are killing more elk because of wolves, because what happens is the mountain lion will kill the elk, but then the wolf will scare the mountain lion off and steal it from him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, one of the things that I learned from... Part by Europeans. Yeah. That's so crazy. One of the things that Dan Flores was talking about was that horses came from here. But then they all died off.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
They don't know exactly why, but probably during that mass extinction event where 65% of all the megafauna died. And then the Europeans reintroduced horses. And so the Native Americans initially didn't have horses, and then some were really good at it, and those are the ones that thrived, like the Comanche.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But the horses came from here originally. Even the horses in Africa, even zebras, originated, genetically originated in the North American continent. I didn't know that. I was like, what the hell? I didn't know that. No, it's crazy. Zebras too? Yeah. Zebras. How nuts. That is nuts. Well, we also have an animal, the pronghorn antelope. Yes. That is a prehistoric animal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's only, yeah, it's only here. It should not be here. And the only reason why it's here and the reason why it's so fast. This article says something about the, I don't know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And then the other thing is- Which they probably got from dogs. Yes, probably. Distemper. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
That's why they're so fast. That's why they're fast. They're so much faster than any predator in North America.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And they're still here and the cheetahs are gone. But they're one of the very few of those weird animals, like the North American lion, like all these different, like there was a North American lion that is way bigger than the African lion.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so the mountain lion then goes and finds a mule deer, finds another deer, and so the mountain lions are killing more animals because in the areas where mountain lions and wolves cohabitate, the wolves are really good at chasing mountain lions off of kills.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's a lot of interesting things in this world, and we're still just learning.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, thanks to you, we know a lot more about wolves. Well, thanks. I really appreciate you being here. Thank you. The book is A Woman Amongst Wolves, My Journey Through 40 Years of Wolf Recovery. Yep. Diane Boyd.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Maybe they would just listen to this podcast and just try it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's not that expensive to get you in a booth for a couple of weeks.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, either way, I'm sure it's awesome. Thank you. And I really appreciate you being here. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty. You know, when a new Call of Duty drops, everyone's trying to find a way to squeeze in those extra hours of gameplay. I get it. Life is busy. But sometimes, you just...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Wow. If you think about that- I would have never imagined that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Man, the replacer always gets it done. Seriously, though, if you're hooked on Call of Duty, this is your time to jump in. Head over to callofduty.com slash blackops6 to get in the game. Call of Duty Black Ops 6, available now. Rated M for Mature.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I don't know if you've ever hunted them or not, but my God, they're really- I've never hunted a mountain lion, but I saw one in- You did? Yeah. I saw one in Utah a couple years back, and it was a big one.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
No, no. We were driving and we were about 25, 30 yards from it. And my friend stopped the truck and he said, look at the size of that cat. It was under a tree. And it was just as dawn or just as dusk was happening. So you could see his eyes glowing. And so I'm in the front seat of the car looking at him through 10X binos and just getting a good look at his face. It was incredible.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Do you have, like, modern amenities up there? Do you have satellite, internet, and all that jazz?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
You were just talking about what it's like out there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
You said Idaho was the only other place that had them?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
That is actually the best of both worlds. Yeah. Choose to turn it on. Yeah. Right. I brought a portable one up to Utah with me. And it's like smaller than this cigar box.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It is incredible. It's just so light. I couldn't believe this was it. Yeah. And it works amazing. Just point it at the sky and all of a sudden you're on YouTube.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
For worse. Definitely for worse. But it allows me to call home and talk to people. There's good to it. But it sounds like living up there must have been amazing. But the water thing sounds like a real issue. There was no way you could build a well?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So you say witch. Are you talking about with the sticks?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It doesn't seem like it could be real. I don't know. I don't know either. But people have been doing that for a long time, and it seems like a massive waste of time. Jamie, see if you can find a video of someone trying to find water with divining rods. If you haven't seen it, they use two sticks, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And they claim as they're walking around that the sticks move. They cross. They cross when you get to an area where there's water. You're a scientist. Tell me how that's possible. How could it be possible? Has anybody ever analyzed what factors could be at play?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So it just spins in his hands? That looks like voodoo.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So he's walking. He's not moving his hands. They did. Wow. It does really look like they move on their own.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, I bet you if you live in the woods a long time, you get a little bit of superstition, a little bit of intuition, a little bit of you feel the woods a little bit differently than you could measure on a scale. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
No, I've never had a moment where I was terrified, like something's out here.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
If you're not around any people and then all of a sudden you feel a person, I bet that kind of person... Like, any person that you run into in the woods is scary. It's weird. I always said that everything in the woods is scarier. If you saw a naked baby in the woods, you'd be like, what's that baby doing here?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Baby just standing there looking at you. You'd be like, what the fuck? There's something weird about the woods in general. And if you were walking through a mall and a man was walking your way, it's just another person. Like, hello. Hi. You're at the park. See a guy. Normal. But if you're in the middle of nowhere in the woods and you see another person,
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's this moment where you're like, what's this guy up to? Who is he? What's he doing? Is he dangerous?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But there's also no one that's going to help you there. Like, if you're at the mall, it's very difficult for someone to get away with attacking you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, it's very nice to meet you. And I really enjoyed you on Steve Rinell's podcast as well.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
If you're alone in the woods, there is this weird, like, if you're some crazy serial killer guys out there, like, and you, you know, you're backpacking, you're like, uh-oh, like, now I'm at the mercy of this person if they're crazy. Mm-hmm.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Were they menacing? Yeah. Yeah? To me. But the way they were communicating with you?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Hmm. Yeah. It's humans that you have to be scared of.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's no serial killer mountain lions. Right. They just have a purpose in nature.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Especially men. Men in the woods are scary. So when you were living out there, how many years did you live out there by yourself?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, it's all amazing stuff, but I would be lonely. I like to be around people.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I mean, it's just I would have been fascinated by who you were then because I'd be fascinated by a person who doesn't want to talk to people. Like if I could just peel back the layers of the onions to find out what that's like. Because I would imagine there's a very different relationship with nature when it's just you and nature alone by yourself for prolonged periods of time.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's very different than taking a jaunt, taking a weekend excursion, hiking, even camping for a week. There's a big difference between that and living there for years.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment. Each contract you own will pay $1 on January 8, 2025, if that candidate is confirmed as the next U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at Robinhood.com slash election. The risk of loss in trading commodities interest can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone. Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment. This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives. a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at Robinhood.com slash election.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
This episode is brought to you by Paramount Network. Sunday, November 10th, is the epic return of Yellowstone, and it's only on Paramount Network. What will become of the Dutton family? Can they save the Yellowstone Ranch? How far will Beth and Rip go to protect the family legacy? Generations of blood have led to this, and nothing will prepare you for this must-see premiere event.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The epic return of Yellowstone, Sunday, November 10th, at 8 p.m. 7 Central on Paramount Network.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So when they reintroduce them, this is one of the sticking points about the reintroduction of Yellowstone. A lot of people that were against it were saying that they reintroduced a different size wolf, that they reintroduced wolves from Canada.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And then once you get to that frame of mind, then you can just like today we're going to go on a hike. Is bring the dogs, just go walk around and enjoy yourself. Go fly fish, whatever. Wow.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And were you living off the land? Were you catching fish for food and hunting for food? Like how were you getting your supplies?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. Steve, well, Steve made the introduction. He told me I have to have you on because he knows how fascinated I am by wolves. So I'm really excited to talk to you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's so interesting because our senses are so dull compared to theirs. We move so slow and we're so loud and we're so clunky. They see us a mile away. They smell us a mile away. They know exactly where you are. And most of the time they just avoid us. Totally true.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, that is part of the problem with people. We do like to talk just to just be reassured. Exactly.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I went to Yellowstone a few years back with my family, and I felt like it was very weird. I felt like I'm enjoying—my daughters were really young at the time. I'm enjoying that they're seeing bears, and they're seeing—well, we didn't see bears. We did see—they had—there was this place in Montana that has this grizzly bear preserve.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's like a place where they take care of bears, so they would feed them frozen watermelons, which is— crazy to watch a bear chew through a frozen watermelon like it's a grape. They just go right through it. It's a frozen watermelon. And they just like it's nothing. But we did see a lot of elk and a bunch of bison.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And the elk was strange because I'm sure you know this, but for the people at home, elk understand that wolves don't come to these community centers, these areas where There's vending machines and buildings. So the elk are all over the place out there. On the lawns. Yeah. So I don't know if I put it on Instagram. I think I did.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I took a selfie with a cow elk that was like 40 feet from me just lying there. And she wasn't worried about me at all. And I was trying to tell my kids, I was like, this never happens. This is... Weird.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's weird that they've become so habitualized to being around cars and people. They just know the people. It's safe when you're around these people. So they just hang out there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, it happens in Colorado, too, like in Evergreen. You know, you see them. There's like these huge herds of elk that walk down the middle of the street. in Evergreen because they know there's no mountain lions in the middle of the street. No predators. Right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so they just like in the rut, they're walking down the street and there's like 30, 40 elk and they stop traffic and they're sitting on people's lawns and it's wild. Sounds like Banff.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
That's unfortunate. Habitualization is unfortunate because you just want to see them in the wild. You don't want to see them in an intersection. Right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, that was the case with Cecil the lion. Do you remember Cecil the lion?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so when they named, and I remember after Cecil got killed, another lion got killed. And they thought it was Jericho, who is Cecil's brother. And there was a story like, oh, my God, they killed Jericho, Cecil's brother. And then they realized that Jericho was not dead. So, oh, it's fine. Jericho is still OK. But that lion is just a lion. You didn't name him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But that's still another lion, but because it's not this named lion's brother who also has a name, no one cared. Exactly. That's so bizarre.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, then all of a sudden they become like a pet. Even more, like a majestic wild pet. It's a different thing. It's a pet that's this iconic North American apex predator.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But if you shoot 907, it's not as rude as if you shoot Jake. Right. Jake the wolf.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, or Michael. Michael. You name a wolf a human name and all of a sudden you shouldn't shoot it anymore. I know. Which is just a weird anthropomorphization thing, right? Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So when they captured the wolves and they removed them, why did they euthanize them? Why didn't they just relocate them?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, obviously someone was telling you what to do, though, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Is it because they're habitualized to start preying on cattle?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Of course. Of course. And if they know the groceries are all penned up.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's a really interesting, complex battle because there's a lot of hunters that do not like the reintroduction of wolves. Yes. And they'll say that the elk populations are down, and they're down dramatically in Montana because of the reintroduction. Which was in 1996? Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But the reality is it's not natural to not have those predators there, and you're going to get an overpopulation of elk, and that's going to lead to starvation and disease.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, that is the problem with people that don't have a nuanced perspective on what's happening because they have a vested interest in it being a problem that the wolves are keeping them from being able to be successful on an elk hunt. Right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. But the die-offs are huge. Like the place that I was just telling you about before the podcast that I was in in Utah, they lost 80% of their mule deer population a year ago.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Real bad winter. Yeah, yeah. And winter die-offs are a big thing. It's a big thing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Including landlocked public land where there is public land where you're allowed to hunt there, but you can't get there. Right. You'd have to fly in a helicopter and a lot of places that's illegal. Right. And so there's all this talk of, for people that don't know, One of the things that happens is a thing called corner crossing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So there might be a piece of public land that you're allowed to hike into, and then there's a small area. It could be a very small area, just a few yards even. of private land that you are going to have to cross in order to get into the next piece of public land.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But people block access to that because these people that have these ranches and most of them probably don't even live there and a bunch of wealthy people, they're terrified that someone's going to go through that and then go into their private land. They don't want to give people the access at all to their private land.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So they stopped these corner crossings, and it's a giant disaster because then you have these areas that are public land that should be available to all of us, and no one can get in there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's a disaster. If I owned the land, I would carve out a big pathway and... And give it to the public. Yeah. If you have 50,000 acres out there, whatever the hell you have, why is it so hard to take a few acres and just make a path? But you're not most landowners. But it seems so simple. I know. It's like the simplest of, you just make some sort of an easement.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, I would understand that if you've been burned a few times, people have poached on your land. And there's this attitude that people who don't have anything and they see someone who has so much and they're like, screw this guy. I'm just going to go on his property. Look, the elk are right there over the ridge, 400 yards away. Yep. Let's just go over there, shoot those elk. He won't even know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. And then they get caught. And then this guy's like, God damn it, they're poaching on my land. And then he hates hunters. Hunters are like everybody else. There's people that are amazing plumbers and they're real honest and they work hard and they're sweethearts and you're happy to hire them and call them. And there's people that are just liars and they're crooks.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Nobody wants to admit to that either. They hate looking at long-term data. I know. When people want to talk about the sky is falling, well, it's actually not. Look at it over a long period of time. You see this trend has always existed. And, in fact, this is one of the cooler times in history.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Everything goes on instantly and everything is ideologically connected. You know, there's people that just don't want any animals ever killed ever. And there's people that want no predators and the easiest hunts possible. And they don't have a nuanced perspective of the ecosystem, of what biology is. And like what these animals, there's a whole world that they live in.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And this world is like interdependent. There's so many things going on. Right. And so people like I remember there was a documentary that came out how wolves changed rivers in Yellowstone. And they made this incredibly rosy picture of wolves coming in and it brought in beavers and they changed the rivers and the lakes and everything was better. And it's like, no, not really.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
No, there's a lot going on all the time. And to single out this one aspect of this ecosystem and say this is the cause of this, there's a lot of different causes. There's a lot going on. Yes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, what they have done, though, is brought some balance, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
When I saw the photos of the wolf, I'm like, that is an evil act.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Like that thing is, that's an incredible animal, you know, and you have no right to do that. And if you crippled it, if you crippled it with a snowmobile, the right thing to do is to call someone or have it euthanized. Yeah. Shoot it or call someone. But to drag it to a bar is just sick.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, the level of vitriol that people have towards wolves is very strange. And I think it goes back to like Little Red Riding Hood and, you know, the Big Bad Wolf. And there's just like this thing that we have in our mind that we don't have for other predators. We don't have it for bears. We don't have it for cats.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I think it's a historical thing. I think wolves are not a problem when you deal with civilization, when you deal with agriculture and people have guns and people have land and they have property. But I think at one point in time it was a much bigger deal when there were larger populations of them and they would hunt people. They would attack people. Are you aware of the World War I story?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
About them eating corpses? Well, not just that. About the Germans and the Russians having a ceasefire because so many people were getting eaten by wolves. I talked to Steve Rinell about it once and he wasn't even sure if it was true. So they actually researched it and found out it was true and they wrote an article on Meat Eater about it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Is there any speculation as to why she went so far north? This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty. You know, when a new Call of Duty drops, everyone's trying to find a way to squeeze in those extra hours of gameplay. I get it. Life is busy, but sometimes you just need it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So the story, I don't remember where I heard it from, but the story was, you know, the thing about war, especially trench warfare, the horrific nature of it is that you don't necessarily always kill people. You shoot them and hurt them and wound them. And these wolves were aware that these people were living in these trenches and that they were wounded.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so they smelled blood and they came in and there was so many instances of people getting dragged out of the trenches by packs of wolves. And there were so many instances of parties going out, like two or three men, and then they just find a boot with a foot in it. And they realize, like, oh, boy, an animal's gotten them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so they decided to have a ceasefire between the Russians and the Germans to just get together and kill the wolves before they go back to killing each other.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
See if you can find that article. I believe it's on meateater.com.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Was there a ceasefire during World War I to hunt wolves? But I want to know what the references for this story were. I think it's the New York Times. Okay. Multiple newspapers in 1917 report this story, including the El Paso Herald, Oklahoma City Times, and New York Times. Since then, it's become a favorite bit of barroom banter among amateur historians. Oh, like me, Joe Rogan.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
February 19th, it says it there. February 1917, a dispatch from Berlin noted large packs of wolves moving into populated areas of the German Empire in the forests of Lithuania and, I don't know how to say that word, Volhynia? Volhynia? How would you say that word?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Locals hypothesized the war effort displaced the wolves, so the canines started seeking out new hunting grounds. The hungry wolves infiltrated rural villages, attacking calves, sheep, goats, and in two cases, children. They also showed up on the front lines, feeding on the fallen and sometimes taking advantage of incapacitated fighters. Parties of Russians and German scouts met.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Recently, they were hotly engaged in a skirmish when a large pack of wolves dashed on the scene and attacked the wounded, reported a 1917 Oklahoma City Times article. Hostilities were at once suspended, and Germans and Russians instinctively attacked the pack, killing about 50 wolves. So these are one of the things that happens in Russia is you get these super packs.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I'm sure you've heard about those, where they've had problems with them descending on, whether it's a cattle ranch or horses. They've taken out horses. Poison, rifle fire, hand grenades, and even machine guns were successfully tried in attempts to eradicate the nuisance, according to a 1917 New York Times article. But all to no avail.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The wolves, nowhere to be found, quite so large and powerful as in Russia, were desperate in their hunger and regardless of danger.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Number one, there weren't... It says, though seemingly far-fetched, it turns out these claims are mostly accurate. Historians estimate that soldiers killed hundreds of wolves during the war and that the surviving wolves fled to escape a carnage the like of which they had never encountered. Click on that link. What is that?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But it seems like something happened. I don't think they made up the fact that they all got together and shot wolves. And have you read about Russian super packs of wolves? No. No? Okay.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But this is recently. Yeah. Within a few years ago, there was a problem with these super packs where they, I don't remember what the theory was as to why they had formed such large packs. But there was large packs of up to 100 wolves that were going into farms.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
2010, 2011, a super pack of wolves numbering up to 400 reportedly terrorized the Russian town of, boy, good luck with that word. Sounds like a vodka. Vorkoyansk.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
How did you start getting interested in wolves and start working with wolves?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Guinness Book of World Records. It's like Wikipedia? Yeah. No, they're a little better than that. Wikipedia sketch. One of the remotest inhabited areas of the northern hemisphere, more than 30 horses were killed in just four days. And I remember reading about this in 2010. It said, according to local officials, teams of hunters were established to patrol neighborhoods and shoot the wolves on site.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Animal experts suspicious of the claim say that wolves usually form packs of no more than 10 to 15 animals, although the particularly harsh winters may have killed off the wolves' usual prey, forcing them to attack larger animals. This was multiple sources had this story, and I remember it about a decade or so ago.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So to have 400 wolves move together... Why would they do that?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Extremely intelligent. And could you imagine a scenario where resources were so diminished that wolves recognized that killing each other had no benefit and that moving together as a group, they could do something to these farms? It's like if you are a pack of 400 wolves and you choose to attack horses, that seems to me a lot more success than three wolves or five wolves trying to do that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, this is based on your real life lived experience. I wouldn't believe it. But things do vary according to very unusual circumstances in terms of the environment, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I have, no pun intended, no dog in the race. But my thought is that in perhaps unusual circumstances like Siberia, where it's so incredibly harsh.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
That if you do find a population that had been surviving because there was a sufficient amount of wildlife for them to kill, and then all of a sudden there wasn't, but there was farms, they all might kind of like descend on these farms and perhaps not even fight for resources because they realized there was no benefit in that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I guess you're just a science denier. That's okay, Diane.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's such a horrible thing to say to people. What are you saying? So what is the largest that you've observed, the largest pack that you've observed?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Do you think the large number in Yellowstone was because of the unusual circumstances of the reintroduction and a bunch of animals that weren't used to having wolves around? Yes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But way back when, if you think about people that were living in a time where there was no guns or at the very least muskets and you're dealing with people that are completely isolated and you're dealing with harsh climates.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And there might be a time where the food source for the wolves is diminished.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The homesteaders didn't really have a problem with wolves, though, attacking people, right? That's what I'm saying. Right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Man, the replacer always gets it done. Seriously, though, if you're hooked on Call of Duty, this is your time to jump in. Head over to callofduty.com slash blackops6 to get in the game. Call of Duty Black Ops 6. Available now. Rated M for Mature. We'll be right back.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I'm just saying. Right. But isn't that a different environment than Siberia? Siberia is unbelievably brutal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Have you ever seen Werner Herzog's documentary, Happy People, Life in the Taiga?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I thought about that when I was thinking about you living alone by yourself. Like that's how those people did. They would go out there and they would just go with a dog and they would go live by themselves in these cabins that they had fortified for the entire winter and just live out there amongst water. And they loved it. They all loved it. They all couldn't wait to get out there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, Siberian tigers, are they known to kill people?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's something super scary about a tiger in the snow.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
No, no. Yeah. It's just a matter of whether or not you zig when you should have zagged and you're in the wrong spot of land where he's at.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I would imagine that's probably the case, too. It could be. Just as they're scared if they survive a situation. The similar story of Vladimir Markov, a poacher who met a grizzly in the winter of 1997 after he shot and wounded a tiger and then stole a part of the tiger's kill. The injured tiger hunted Markov down in a way that appears to be chillingly premeditated.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The tiger stalked out Markov's cabin, systematically destroyed anything that had Markov's scent on it, and then waited by the front door for Markov to come home. Wow.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Wow. It was an impulsive response, Valiant says. The tiger was able to hold this idea over a period of time. The animal waited for 12 to 48 hours before attacking. When Markov finally appeared, the tiger killed him, dragged him in the bush, and ate him. The eating may have been secondary, Valiant explained. I think he killed him just because he had a bone to pick.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Look at the guy's hand next to the footprint. Oh my God. It's amazing. Oh, that's the author with the size of a female's paw print. So that's a female. That's a small one. Oh my goodness.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Boy, what a shitty photo. I wouldn't buy it. If somebody said that's a photo, I'd go, get out of here.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Really? Yeah, one of the ten that was just introduced. So they kill them because they are a competitor.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Or the wolf doesn't have a chance one-on-one, you mean.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's interesting because wouldn't you think that food is scarce and that meat is precious and that if they did kill the mountain lion, they'd realize, why don't we eat this thing?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I have. It's good. Yeah. I had it once, too. That's why it's weird. Actually, you know what? Wait a minute. Did I eat it? I don't know how I have. Why do I feel like someone gave me something? I don't think I ate it. I think it's in my freezer. I think somebody might have served it to me somewhere.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, Steve killed one and cooked it and he said it was tremendous. It is. He called it superb. He said it was like a superior pork.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, he said it was really good, which is like most people would not think you even eat mountain lion.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, that was what I was reading about one of the trappers, one of the original people that was traveling across the country in the 1700s. His favorite meal was wolf. Oh, you're kidding me. No, this guy was eating like wolf meat.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, I don't know why. I mean, I don't know why that would be anyone's favorite. Then maybe that's like a cool thing to tell people. I like eating wolves. That's true. You know, you find some guys, you know, he wants you to be scared of him. What is he eating? He's up there alone. He's eating wolves. That's his favorite. He lives by himself and he just eats wolves.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There is a thing about mammals, right, that mammals, as they get into a colder range, they are larger mammals. Like if you see, let's say, northern Alberta whitetail deer versus an Arizona whitetail deer.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. Well, it's a resource issue, right? This is the reason why most people think when they think of grizzly bears, grizzly bears have a very similar size, but then you get to coastal brown bears. They're much larger and it's really just access to protein, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Farmer's Dog gives you that peace of mind by making fresh, real food developed by board-certified nutritionists to provide all the nutrients your dog needs. And their food is human-grade, which means it's made to the same quality and safety standards as human food. Very few pet foods are made to this strict standard. And let's be clear, human-grade food doesn't mean the food is fancy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's a fantastic video. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but there's a photographer and he's got like a little lawn chair set up and he's photographing all these enormous brown bears that are feeding off salmon. And this one walks up and gets as close to him as where Jamie is to us. Oh, wow. And it's huge. And it just sits next to him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It sits next to him and looks down. Watch it. This is it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Look at that little folding chair. Oh, my God. I mean, just imagine that. That is literally where Jamie is. Oh, my God. And he doesn't care at all about these people. It's not thinking of them as a food source.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Because he's looking at the river. He doesn't even care that the people are there. He's just, like, looking at the river going, hmm, let me take a nap here. So he just chills out. Oh, my God. I mean, any other time. So if you were in the middle of the forest and you saw that, first of all, they wouldn't be that big in the middle of the forest.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But if you saw a bear like that in the middle of the forest, it'd be absolutely terrifying. He'd be scared of you. You'd be scared of him. You'd have your bear spray out. Yeah. You'd be scared. Look at this guy. He's so close. And the bear just sort of walks off like, see ya, bye, because he's got so much food.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Have you ever heard Steve's story of that? No. No, tell me. Oh, my God. They were on a Fognac Island. Where's that? It's in Alaska. It's connected to, it's like one of the island chains that's right near, what is the big one where they find all the big brown bears? Kodiak? Yeah, so it's right off of Kodiak. So they were elk hunting, and they shot an elk.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yes, elk hunting on the Fognac, yeah. It's a very hard hunt, incredibly difficult hunt because of the terrain. It's almost impossible to traverse. So to get a few miles takes hours and hours and hours. So they go through this. They're basically bushwhacking through this incredibly dense terrain. They find an elk. They shoot the elk. And then they're very far from camp.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So they take some of the meat and then they hang the meat in the trees and they set up. They didn't know that when they came back the next day that a bear had claimed that elk. So there's a gut pile. There's all sorts of stuff there for the bear. Obviously the smell of the meat. And so they... It took a long time to get where the bear was, and they all sat down.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There was a large group of them because they were filming for this television show, my friend Remy Warren, my friend Giannis Poutelis, and then Steve and a few other people working on the crew. And they sit down to have lunch, and little do they know that there is an enormous, like, 11-foot bear that had claimed that spot. And he comes running through the camp.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And one guy, our friend Dirtmouth, was actually on his back. The bear plowed through the camp and through the people and just I don't think it recognized how many people were there. So it didn't know exactly what to do. So he wound up literally on the back of a bear for like 10 to 15 yards. Oh.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Before he fell off of it. So then the bear goes in the woods and starts woofing. None of them had their guns out. None of them were ready. They were just eating lunch. They really fucked up. They made a huge tactical error. They also ignored scat. Which they weren't sure whether or not that was a bear that had recently been.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So they were there for quite a while, guns drawn, trying to fend off this bear. So they eventually got out of there. But both Steve Rinella and Remy Warren have told the story on my podcast. And it's bone chilling.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Steve said that this thing was literally feet from his head gnashing its teeth as it's running through the camp. And it's enormous. He said, you have all these thoughts in your mind of what you would do and how you would feel. And he said, it's just reptilian. Like your brain goes to the most base survival. There's a recognition of this enormous predator. unbelievably sobering experience.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, it was just trying to protect its kill, what it thought was its. But his theory was that the bear didn't realize how many people were there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And as it ran through the group, it didn't know who to hit. Yannis hit it in the face with trekking poles.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Hit the bear in the face with trekking poles. Like that close to him. Right. Imagine a head that big, that close, and you hit it with trekking poles.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Ah, and it just ran past them, probably not knowing which one to target or what to do. Right. And then they got their guns out, and then I don't know exactly how they eventually got to a point where they felt confident enough that they could walk. Right. And then walk with meat on their back.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So they went there to pack out and they have all these guys so they can make the pack out a little bit easier.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So now you're walking even slower because you've got 50 pounds on your back.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, leave something. Leave something to fill them up.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Even if they had their guns, it would have killed one or two of them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Maybe you did it. We pepper sprayed a bunch of people on Fear Factor once.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, you run away because the- Yeah, you can't breathe. Actually, it was tear gas. Oh, okay. Now that I'm remembering. Okay. So what we did, we put these people in this cement structure, and it was like, how long can you tolerate it? I forget exactly what the stunt was, but the wind took a lot of it and blew it through the crew, and we were all running away, and it was in your eyes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And I'm sure tear gas is probably pretty similar to the effects that you get from pepper spray. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Whereas if you have bear spray, it's just this cloud you're spraying out.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
You've never been in a situation where you had a cat stalking you or close to you?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Have you? No. No, not really. No. I had one kill my dog in Colorado.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Little dog. Little tiny. Sorry. Yeah, it was a bummer. But there's a big difference, I think, between what you see and what's there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And especially at nighttime, we're almost blind. And they have senses that are beyond our wildest imagination. Mm-hmm. We were talking earlier today where someone brought up that stuff that hunters use to spray on them to kill their scent. I go, listen to me. That shit is nonsense. First of all, whatever that stuff is, they're going to smell that stuff.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
exactly and it's not going to hide your scent i you look i don't know the science behind it i don't want to kill anybody's business but i as you were with the wolf thing i'm super skeptical that a deer or an elk is not going to smell you if you spray some junk that you bought from cabela's on you i don't want to kill anybody's business either but i can tell you from traps too i do the same thing i'm incredibly careful about scent
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I just don't think we can even imagine the kind of sense that they have, the kind of ability to smell and hear with those enormous ears and those noses and those eyes they can see at night. I think we're just guessing. It's almost like when you try to imagine the size of the universe and someone says, oh, it's 13.7 billion years old. It's like light years and like... Okay, how big is that?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So try the Farmer's Dog today. You can get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. Plus, you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. Tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more. Offer applicable for new customers only.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Like, you know, your head just, someone tried to explain it to me in a way that actually resonated that it's similar to how you can smell skunk, except much more directional. You know, like a skunk can die a mile away and you can smell it, which is really weird because there's no other scent like that. In the nature. No.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
That you can pick up one animal, sprays one thing a mile away, and you're driving in your car.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And you're like, oh, you smell that? Right, right. There's skunk around here, which is crazy. Now, what this guy was saying to me is now imagine that, but directional and better.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, maybe because they know it's there and they probably have had some experience in their life with traps.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Right. I mean, yeah. What do you think? They're trying to tell people? Yeah. I'm not that stupid?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Have you ever seen the video of they caught a rat and the rat takes a stick and blows the mouse trap so it can get the food? No kidding. The rat actually brought over a tool to spring the trap and purposely springs it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The problem I have with the video is I don't know the source. So I don't know if they trained this rat.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Right. So they maybe done that just to make a viral video, but it's still pretty extraordinary that this rat figures out it could take a stick and it moves it and puts the stick on the rat trap. The rat trap springs. And then it goes over to it. And by the way, it doesn't even flinch when the rat trap springs.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
No. See if you can find it, Jamie. It's really weird. Yeah, this is it. So he smells it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
He smells it. It's a big rat trap. Yeah. So he goes away. And I'll check this. Now, the thing about him not flinching is the craziest. So he gets the stick. He's had experience. He lifts it up. And drops it. He didn't flinch. He didn't flinch at all. Isn't that insane? I mean, imagine you're a wild animal. It seems like it. Something. Something. Maybe he's done it before.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment. Each contract you own will pay $1 on January 8, 2025, if that candidate is confirmed as the next U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But there was something weird about it where he must have known that that's going to happen.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, it's rats. It's not really wild, right? They're domesticated in some sort of a weird way. Well, you know, there's as close to as many rats as there are people in New York City. By weird estimations, which I'm sure they don't have a good accurate account of how many rats there are. But there's so many of them. And there's an amazing documentary called Rats that's on Netflix.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And it's really good. And it shows you how intelligent they are. And one of the things they do is they take the young... Brash rats. And they let them go try the food out first to see if it's poison because they've been poisoned so many times. So they'll get this young dummy. It's like, I'll eat it. Send Sam. Sam's a dumbass. So Sam the rat runs over and eats the poison and gets sick.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And they're like, let's get out of here. And they take off. But they have some very bizarre survival instincts that's highly tuned to this recognition that they're being at least tried, not preyed upon necessarily, but something's trying to kill them. Right. And they're not eating them. But it's some weird situation where it's poison. So they figured out what poison is. They're really smart.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Crazy. So they'll send a dummy to go out, a young guy, to go out and eat the poison.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
What kind of natural adaptation is that? And what is that from? I'm sure you're aware of this, but there's a very bizarre study that they've done. where there's a concept called morphic resonance. And the idea is that once one animal learns this, the other animals will learn it easier. And that this is scientifically proven.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And that the idea is that there's some sort of a sharing of information that is not local. and that we don't totally understand. So the concept is, the way it's been proven is that rats on one side of the country, if they go through a maze, the rats on the other side of the country will go through the maze quicker. The exact same maze. See if you can find that. So they don't know what this is.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I think we have a very naive belief that the senses that we have recognized, all of them, whether they're sight, sound, touch, taste, whatever they are, this is it. This is all that's available. And that...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The concept might, the idea is that there might be something that we're missing or something that we really, we as dumb, blind human beings in terms of our ability to see things, we don't have the ability to tune in to what these animals can tune in to.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But there's something. Rat learning and morphic resonance.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So according to the hypothesis, formative causation, there's no difference in kind between innate and learned behavior. Both depend on motor fields given by morphic resonance. The hypothesis, therefore, admits a possible transmission of learned behavior from one animal to another and leads to a testable prediction of
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
which differ not only from those of the orthodox theory of inheritance, but also from those of the Lamarckian theory and from inheritance through epigenetic modifications of gene expression. So animals of an inbred strain are placed under conditions in which they learn to respond to a given stimulus in a characteristic way. They are then made to repeat this pattern of behavior many times.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
X hypothesize the new behavioral field, which will be reinforced by morphic resonance. will not only cause the behavior of the trained animals to become increasingly habitual but will also affect, though less specifically, any similar animal exposed to a similar stimulus.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The larger the number of animals in the past that have learned the task, the easier it should be for the subsequent similar animals to learn it. Therefore, in an experiment of this type, it should be possible to observe a progressive increase in the rate of learning not only in the animals descended from trained ancestors, but also in genetically similar animals descended from untrained ancestors.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at Robinhood.com slash election. The risk of loss in trading commodities interest can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
This is pretty wild stuff. It's pretty wild. Yeah. So it just speaks to this. I think we naively look at our senses as being the only ones that are available. There's obviously some kind of communication that transpires.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
between animals that allows them to hunt in packs right particularly wolves like they have strategies yes they do things like they know how to corner animals they know how to funnel them into like pinch points they do it on purpose and they seem to be aware of what they're doing through whether it's gestures or pheromones or something that we're just guessing on but they're accomplished at it
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's not like a singular individual event that you could point to, like maybe that was just dumb luck. They ran the deer through this area and the other wolves just happened to be there. No. No, they have specific tasks where they have wolves that will get on the top of the ridges and let themselves be known so they get these animals running. And then the other wolves are ahead of them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone. Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment. This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives. A registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at Robinhood.com slash election.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, they've been trying to figure out forever what's going on with birds and how birds like sandhill cranes, for example.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. I mean, Canadian geese. Like what's going on? Like how are these birds figuring out these incredible migration paths?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Right. I don't know. Migratory birds are very fascinating. Oh, I know. Like what are they following and what GPS do they have in their little tiny brains? They have little tiny brains. I know. But yet they're able to use something. Like there's a theory that it's the magnetic poles. Right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
One of them is a very big bird. Albatross. That's right. Albatross. And they literally sleep while they're soaring across the sky.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Here, albatross can fly nonstop for over 16,000 kilometers. Wow. That is so crazy. For example, a gray-headed albatross flew 13,670 miles around the world in 46 days in 2005. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Laysan albatross can travel 1,600 miles on foraging trips to feed their chicks. Large albatross species can spend up to five years at sea.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Albatross can go up to six years before returning to the island where they were born to mate and lay eggs. Unbelievable.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's crazy here where it's talking about how they can fly over vast areas without flapping their wings. They just use the wind, expending almost none of their own.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, I think there's a narrative in this country, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I think the narrative is, first of all, they were killed.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
off a long time ago by poison by ranchers and by settlers and because of that we grew up with this narrative that they had to kill off the wolves so then these damn hippies come and vote and bring and i wanted to ask you about that too um what your feeling is on biology that's done by vote which is how informed are these people that are casting this vote how emotional is this and how much of this these decisions that people are making like
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
One of them being that I think was particularly egregious was the delisting of grizzly bears in BC. Because I have a good friend who lives up there, and he's like, there's a lot of grizzly bears up there. They still allow black bear hunting, but they're not controlling the grizzly bear population because of the people in Vancouver. That's the large population. They have the most votes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
They decided we've got to outlaw what they call trophy hunting. And so biology by vote. by people that probably don't know anything about what's going on and they don't have to, other than have this emotional response. But I think, going back to what we're talking about, is that we have this narrative that the wolves are bad, the wolves were killed off for a good reason. We don't want wolves.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Oh my God, people are bringing back wolves. What are they doing? We want to kill those damn wolves. And so there's a good percentage of the population that lacks this nuanced perspective of the complexity of the ecosystem. First of all, how amazing it is to be able to see wolves. I've never seen them in the wild. I saw one once. Did you? Yeah, in Alberta, but it was so brief. It was dusk.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It was actually after last light, so it was running across this dirt road. I was like, is that a wolf? There's a lot of wolves up there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
plenty of camera trap photos of these wolves so that's most likely what it was and they give out wolf tags you can get as many wolf tags you want up there but good luck finding one you know they're a lot smarter than you or a lot better at living in the woods than you are yes but we have these these ideas that are ingrained in us that the wolves were killed off for a good reason and they're only being brought back because of morons well you summed that up pretty well yeah
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I just don't know. So is that common that they would travel that far?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Want to see a crazy video of a wolf that was in Bakersfield? Yeah, in California. Yeah, my friend filmed this. So this wolf, he was driving down the freeway in Bakersfield, California. And they looked off and there was this wolf. I've sent you this, right, Jamie? Yeah. Do you think you still have it? I know Cody sent it to me. I can find it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So my friend who was out there filmed this wolf off the highway. And this is like five miles from an In-N-Out burger. Yeah. And it's, it's in California. I mean, we're talking about an hour 40 from Los Angeles. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And the, he was speculating that perhaps this wolf was brought there by someone. Damn. I might be on my other phone. Did I send it to you, Jamie? I know I saved it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Oh, probably. I mean, a lot of people are super skeptical, like how would a wolf wind up there? But what you're saying in terms of the amount of land that they can travel on is insane. Hundreds and hundreds of miles.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, I think I might have saved it under wolf. If I look, there's like videos.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's a thing that you can do now with your iPhone where you can just search for wolves.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
No, our friend did. He filmed it. I know I had the video.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
One thing we did come across when I was hunting in BC, we were moose hunting about 10 years ago or so, and we found a calf that had been killed. And it was really interesting because, like, they'd stripped it down to the bone, and what was wild was all the hair. There was hair everywhere. And I'm like, I didn't even think of that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Like, I didn't think there'd be hair everywhere for some stupid reason.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It was pretty recent. Oh, wow. It was real recent, like within the day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Oh, no, it was a wolf kill. Yeah. Okay. My friend who was up there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Strip hair off. Well, that area had a lot of wolves. Okay. And he was very accustomed to finding calves that had been killed by wolves. We found it because of birds. Sure. The birds were circling.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Isn't that interesting? Like, that's how you find things. Yes. You find the birds. It is. Yeah. And how do they find it? Like, you know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Not only do they solve puzzles, but they figure out how to raise water levels so they can get to food in a jar.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
They drop rocks into the jar until the water level raises so they can get the food that's floating.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
oh that mountain line that we saw might have been the coolest that was the coolest but i saw a badger once i got i got film of that i actually got out of the truck and got next to him got close to him then he started coming towards me and i ran i was like what's wrong with me like what am i stupid they're blonde wolverines that's really what they are he looked fucking terrifying and not very big but like ferocious i've caught a couple in wolf traps such a
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
cool looking animal they're so cool looking I know I just couldn't imagine that I was seeing one like it was in Utah seeing one in the wild I've seen I saw one grizzly and you did it looked at me so much different than any bear I've ever looked at I've hunted black bear before and I've been around black bear many many times and this is the first grizzly and it was so different the way it looked at me
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Where was it? This was in BC. No, excuse me. This was in Alberta. And this one was not a big one. He was about six feet tall. But he looked through me. It looked different. Like a black bear looks like, who are you? What's this? What are you doing over there? Are you food? Are you going to kill me? What are we doing? They're a little sketched out because they're not the top of the food chain.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
The grizzlies are. And so the grizzly looked at me like this. Like right at me. We had shotguns. We screamed at him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. And my friend Jen, she slammed a stick against a tree like, get out of here, bear, and cocked the shotgun. The bear took off. But it was the difference in looking in their face. They just have a totally different look. They look at you like this. Like, am I going to get you right now? It's just a grizzly has a hard life.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's not like that brown bear that has all those salmon that's sitting by the river. Those grizzlies are out there like trying to survive.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, that to me is so fascinating how animals change their behavior based on the amount of resources that are available and whether or not they're safe. Like the Yellowstone elk that are habitualized, that are just around people hanging out with them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And people just pull over to pull their phones out and film them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, were you telling a story on Steve Rinell's podcast about a very nice neighborhood of like these nice homes and these wolves that decide to set up shop?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. Right. That's a problem because then you're like a wolf growing up in a gated community, literally. Right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
You learn that people are OK and there's deer everywhere. Right. Because the deer know that people are OK and the deer are not used to wolves being there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
How much of a problem is it where they kill pets? It's a giant mountain lion issue, especially in Northern California. One place outside of San Francisco, they did an analysis of the diet of mountain lions that they had captured, and it was 50% pets.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But it's just fascinating that they had actively chosen to hunt pets.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, it's probably one of the reasons why you don't hear about that in Texas, because in Texas, they're like vermin. You can shoot as many mountain lions as you want. If you see a mountain lion, you shoot them just like a coyote.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So this is my friend Cody filmed this off the highway.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, they're pretty close to developing some pretty spectacular battery technology. I just was reading about that. Yeah, they're trying to implement it in automobiles. They're going to be able to do it. I believe Samsung is at the forefront of that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So he had a scope, you know, like a spotting scope. Yeah, yeah. And he put a phone. Look at that. That's amazing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Interesting. So what their speculation is, you know, he works on a ranch. Their speculation is that someone released that. And they think these rogue wildlife lovers are releasing wolves to try to force some sort of a reintroduction into central California. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, because obviously they make batteries for their phones and electronics and things along those lines. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Are the ranchers reimbursed? Is there a fund for that?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. So they're wearing this heavy collar and they... They're good for about two years. And a wolf in the wild lives how long on average?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Always. I was watching a documentary about this guy who lived with wolves, like lived with wolves in some contained environment. And he would like set up a fake kill where he would eat the liver so he could be like the dominant male and he would growl at them. It was really stupid. Yeah, you're right. I'm with you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Anyway, this gentleman who was a wolf expert was then recruited to try to help a sheep herder with wolves that had moved in to take over his flock. And one of the strategies they used is giant speakers. So they took speakers and they played sounds of wolves to scare off these other wolves. Huh.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so then he goes back to the pack and tries to be the alpha again, and they corner him and snarl at him, and he had a whimper. It's a very weird documentary because this is some sort of a strange fenced-in environment that they've created where these wolves are living. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Very, very, very similar. Yeah. Well, I think that's from the movie, the Werner Herzog, another Werner Herzog film, Grizzly Man.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Amazing movie. Yeah. And an unintentional comedy. Maybe intentional. I think it was a little bit intentional. Because there's a few cuts in there where you're like, he had to know that was funny. And I think that was Suicide by Bear.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. I think that guy and the girlfriend, unfortunately. But I think that guy wanted to die, and I think he wanted to die that way. He had to know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Right. Impossible. No. They would never tolerate that. Yeah. No, it's a weird bastardization of reality.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
What are the cons when there's pros and cons for reintroduction of wolves? What do you think the cons are? Like the reintroduction in Colorado, the reintroduction in Yellowstone?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I would be cheating because I listened to the Rinella podcast. I think it was 4.3 years.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So the problem is in the perceptions of the people that are encountering the wolves or that are impacted by the wolves being there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I think it was. I was shocked. I thought they would live older because, you know, an elk, you know, like a bull elk. Like if you shoot a mature one, they're seven, eight years old. I mean, I shot one that was 11.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, that sounds ridiculous, but it is kind of crazy to me that if you wanted a wolf reintroduction to be successful, why would you take animals that have a history of predation on cattle and livestock and use those as the reintroduction wolves?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I think that kind of mindset or that ignorance, whether it's willful ignorance or whether it's on purpose, whether it's a fuck you to the ranchers, whatever it is, that is why people have this negative perception I think you're alluding to, right? Right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Like if they're required by law, does someone go to jail if you're not successful in capturing the wolves to put there?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. And the teeth were worn down to almost nothing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. I could see why they did it that way, but boy, that seems like you're just adding to the problems. It really does.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. So what are the positives about the reintroduction of wolves? Because it has been successful.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
In general, because the Colorado one is just this year, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So that's what happened. Well, the problem with that, of course, is what we were talking about with epidemiology. These animals do have a learned behavior pattern that's going to be imparted on their offspring as well. And the surrounding community, they're going to favor that because it's a very simple way to get food.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's an amazing painting that I'm pretty sure Rinella told me about. He might even have a copy of it. Or was it Remy? It might have been Remy. No, it was Remy. Because Remy actually, he reproduced this on his television show. He had a show called Apex Predator. And the show Apex Predator was all like examining the behavior characteristics of apex predators and seeing what they did.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And one of the things that some of the Native American tribes used to do, they would take a wolf skin. And they would wear it, put it on their head, and they would crawl on four legs, hands and knees, up into bison. Yep. Yeah. That one. So that one.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
That's so incredible. And so they would wander up towards bison because bison, full-grown bison are not afraid of a couple of wolves. Right. And they would use that as a way to get close enough, like a decoy, and sneak up and arrow these bison and kill them. Yep. Oh, there's a lot of paintings of that. That's cool. So that must have been a very common thing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, so Remy actually reproduced this on his television show.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
He actually wore a wolf skin and crawled up to these bison.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I'm not sure. See if you can find Remy Warren, Apex Predator, bison episode.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. Wow. Well, do you imagine, especially if you have a compound bow. Sure. You know, I was just shooting today. Very accurate. I just got a new Hoyt bow. It's amazing. So I don't know how they do it, but they keep making these compound bows better every year. But this new one's incredible. And I was shooting super accurate up to 60 yards.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So if you're, you know, a guy as good as Remy is, who's literally a professional hunter, and you crawl close enough to bison to get them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, there's... Yeah. Some of them prefer to be called Indians.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. You got to kind of like ask them... You have to know. What are your pronouns, sir?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So... I know that there's wild bison that live in Mexico. And I know that from Steve. Steve Rinell actually hunted them in Mexico. And yeah, and this traditional ranch, they have this incredible way of taking care of it because they've never had electricity in this area. It's like this long history of hundreds of years of hunting them this way.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So they do all these different things to dry out the meat. And they make these like thin cuts of meat and hang them from sticks and dry them in the sun and smoke them and do all kinds of different things to the meat. Really interesting. But this was one of the last when they were all wiped out from or almost wiped out from North America. A few of them survived in Mexico.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So here, Remy's bison on the Sonora Desert in Mexico. Oh, so he did it in Mexico. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Oh, interesting. Oh, it was a coyote. Okay. But it was in Mexico. So he put the pelt on and did the whole deal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's crazy that it worked. Yeah. Well, Native Americans knew it. Well, for sure, a buffalo or a bison is not going to be scared of a coyote. No. Yeah, not at all. So if they see that, they're like, oh, I didn't know that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Dan Flores, who was... Oh, great historian. Yeah, and he was one of Vernell's professors. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's how he met him. But Dan has a very interesting theory about the population of bison and why there were so many. And he thinks it's tied into the plague, into when Europeans came across the country and 90 percent of Native Americans were wiped out because of disease.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And he thinks that's why there was millions of bison in the field, this overpopulation of bison, because the predators had gone away. Really? Yeah. I think the paper is called Bison Diplomacy, Bison Ecology. Is that what it's called?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So, so interesting. Yes. And the book, Coyote America, is crazy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's so good. Yeah, there it is. Okay. It's Bison Ecology and Bison Diplomacy, the Southern Plains from 1800 to 1850. Okay.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So his theory, which I think is a very valid one, and it should be researched, it should be at least considered, that the reason why the early native settlers, excuse me, the early European settlers did not see enormous herds of bison is because the bison weren't enormous herds back then. Because bisons have a long gestation period. They're fairly easy to hunt because they're very large animals.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And they're not afraid. Yeah. And if you have horseback... You can get pretty close to them, shoot them with arrows, and they were very effective at hunting them. And particularly the Comanche lived entirely off of bison, and they were right here. So right here in this area, they're just nothing but bison, eating bison constantly.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so they probably did a really good job of keeping the population in check. Then along come Europeans and their dirty diseases. And, you know, this is what the primary theory is what wiped out the Maya, wiped out the Aztec, wiped out the people that lived in the Amazon jungle. It's all European settlers and their dirty diseases.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And so that when that happened, then you have what's similar to no wolves in Montana. And you have 20,000 elk in a place that really has a carrying capacity for like, what, six? Or what do you think was like the correct number when there was 20,000 elk there?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
What would be like a healthy population for the food sources?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Is that one of the main reasons how they die or the main ways they die is killing each other?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Is their action dependent upon the amount of resources that are available? Like would they be more reluctant to kill a wolf if there was plenty of food for everybody? Just get out of here. Whereas if they were struggling, they'd go, this is a real problem having this wolf around.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
One of the things that Dan Flores talks about in Coyote America is the expansion of coyotes and that the reason this took place is that coyotes were targeted by gray wolves.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So they had developed this ability to recognize when one of the pack had been killed, they would expand their territory and the females would have more pups. The coyotes or the wolves? The coyotes. So the wolves were killing the coyotes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So this is why there's coyotes in literally every state and every city in North America now where there wasn't 100 years ago is that because they have this history of being persecuted by the wolves because they don't breed with wolves, but they do breed with red wolves. So where you get your coy wolf is a coyote and a red wolf on the East Coast, right? Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Is it because the old males don't get accepted into a new pack?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Oh, interesting. Yeah, different story. But the gray wolves do not hybridize with coyotes was his point.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah. It was interesting you were talking about on Ranella's show that they don't kill foxes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Right. It's not going to compete with you. It's not going to take out a bison.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's interesting because that's one of the theories about why it was originally one of the theories why coyotes killed dogs and coyotes kill cats is that they're competitors. But then they started eating them. So I think maybe originally that was the case because, again, the expansion into urban areas is fairly recent.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It is crazy. That would be so cool, though. Imagine if you lived there. I know. As long as you don't have a poodle.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
They can get it pretty easy. Moutline, yeah. Yeah. You know what's interesting to me is the propensity that foxes have to befriend humans.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Wow. So he was just kind of chilling on his own for years.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
One of the things that they did was whenever any of the foxes exhibit any kind of aggression, they shot them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So they only allowed the very docile, submissive foxes to exhibit.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But then their eyes started getting larger, their snouts started getting shorter, and their ears started dropping really quick.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
That is really fascinating. It's really fascinating. Because that's never been done to tigers or mountain lions. Think about how many people have tried to keep mountain lions as pets.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Well, the fox has a very strange relationship to humans where that was part of the Timothy Treadmill movie. In the movie, he had this fox that was his friend and the fox stole his hat one day and ran into the den with his hat. It's like, give me my hat back. And he's like chasing him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But it's an adorable relationship that this fox has with people, with him, in fact, climbing on his tent and hanging out with him. And he could touch it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Was there any understanding of what he was basically, because they usually hunt in packs.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Maybe. But you're talking about he's up in the grizzly maze in Alaska.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Maybe. But there seems to be some sort of a strange history of comfort where this animal that's a 10-pound animal is comfortable around a 150-pound man for no real reason. Like he's not giving it anything. Like just him being around and it would lie down in front of him and sun itself and play around him. Right. There was a weird relationship that humans have had with foxes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But I've had friends that have had encountered with foxes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So it was probably very difficult for him to take down anything larger than a fawn or a deer. So what was he eating?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's just such a strange little fella that wants to be your friend. You know, very interesting.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
No, you don't. I have a fox that visits my yard because I have chickens and we have to shoo him out every time he comes into the yard. But they make the craziest noise. They do. Like, I didn't know about the noise to my friend Jim Brewer, who has foxes near his house in New Jersey. They make this crazy scream. And I was like, what? What does it sound like?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
And then this little guy that lives in my neighborhood does it in my yard. I got a video of him in my yard going, wow. Yeah, I've heard it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
It's an interesting idea also. And the interesting idea sort of coincides with the idea of the introduction of agriculture.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
You have the introduction of agriculture. So you have resources that are more abundant and you have more animals. And so if these people lived in a resource rich environment where there was plenty of meat. And they didn't have to worry. You could see how maybe they would throw some scraps at a cute little wolf that's near the fire.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
What they did with the foxes over just the course of a few generations.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
So was it possible that the initial domestication of wolves into dogs took place in a very game-rich environment where they didn't have fight over resources?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Was there also a consideration that during these times, this was a hunter gathering time where they really didn't have a preservation of meat. There was no way to store it. So you had to continue to hunt and gather. So if you had an abundance. Yes. You didn't think, oh, I'll stockpile this for the next few months. That was never even an afterthought.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Right, they risk being dismembered too, like broken legs and broken jaws and getting kicked.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Yeah, well, it seems to be uniquely adaptive. Yeah, totally. Are you aware of the baboons that raise dogs? No. Yeah. There's baboons that take puppies and they use the puppies as guards. So they keep the puppies near them and they keep these dogs near them. They don't kill them. And the dogs like allow them to sleep so that they could be alerted to any intruders. The dogs bark.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
There's film footage of these dogs. See if you can find it. Yeah, that's awesome. These baboons with these dogs. The dog's like, what am I doing? The baboon's like, get over here. They don't kill it. No, they use them. I mean, I'm sure they probably kill a few of them. They kill babies. Baboons are pretty damn ruthless.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Scary animal, because it seems like a dog monkey. It's got a face like a dog. It's a weird animal, right? Because unlike any other primate, they have a completely different jaw structure. Their teeth? Oh my gosh. They look like a dog. It's like an extended snout. Very strange animal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Colorful and beautiful and creepy. All of these things. All of the things. I agree. Here we go. So these are dogs that are being raised. They raise these feral dogs. Look how he's dragging the dog. Get over here.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
But did you see that other larger dog that was over there?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
processing data just like our dogs yeah and they hold on to them by the tail it's kind of crazy and they drag them around if you back it up there was a larger dog that was in the background yeah like that one that dog's barking so i think the theory that i remember reading was that they had figured out that if they keep these dogs around the dogs are good watchdogs
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I was trying to dig into the debate. Viral video of baboons in Saudi Arabia garbage dump led to speculation that baboons kidnap puppies and keep them as pets. However, some say the baboons were likely just playing with the puppies, that the relationship is not analogous to pet-owner relationship. Maybe. There's a lot of weird studies on garbage dumps and baboons. Have you ever read Sapolsky's work?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Robert Sapolsky did this study on a particularly vicious... Primate.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
I don't remember. But the study that was fascinating was that they found that there was one contaminated pile of garbage. And of course, the most vicious alphas were the ones to eat first. So they died and they got sick.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2213 - Diane K. Boyd
Especially the toxoplasmosis Gandhi discussion. Right now with the lions and the wolves?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
Peter's Basilica is fucking... Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at robinhood.com slash election.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
Hey, Joe, it's the replacer. Yeah. No, you. Hey, I'm going to take it from here so you can enjoy some Call of Duty Black Ops 6. Great. Now, listen up, folks. Life can be chaotic, but you shouldn't have to miss out on the latest Call of Duty just because you've got, I don't know, responsibilities. That's where I come in. I will handle the boring stuff like works, chores, even podcast ads.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
So you can dive right into the fight. Call of Duty Black Ops 6 is out October 25th. So dive in because I've got your back. Remember, I replace you, Blade. It's that simple.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
Robinhood is introducing forecast contracts so you can trade the presidential election. Through Robinhood, you can now trade financial derivatives contracts on who will win the U.S. presidential election, Harris or Trump, and watch as contract prices react to real-time market sentiment. Each contract you own will pay $1 on January 8, 2025, if that candidate is confirmed as the next U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at robinhood.com slash election. The risk of loss in trading commodities interest can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone. Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment. This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives. a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at Robinhood.com slash election.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
Hey, Joe, it's the replacer. Yeah. No, you. Hey, I'm going to take it from here so you can enjoy some Call of Duty Black Ops 6. Great. Now, listen up, folks. Life can be chaotic, but you shouldn't have to miss out on the latest Call of Duty just because you've got, I don't know, responsibilities. That's where I come in. I will handle the boring stuff like works, chores, even podcast ads.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2218 - Sam Tripoli
So you can dive right into the fight. Call of Duty Black Ops 6 is out October 25th. So dive in because I've got your back. Remember, I replace you, Blade. It's that simple.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty. You know, when a new Call of Duty drops, everyone's trying to find a way to squeeze in those extra hours of gameplay. I get it. Life is busy. But sometimes, you just...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So was there an aha moment for you? Like the first thing that you saw that you looked at and you go, what the fuck?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
What was the first thing that you saw that made you realize that there's something going on here that defies conventional wisdom or conventional understanding of propulsion systems?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Was there ever an instance where a pilot or a jet did run into something?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So just like a wedge that you would split wood with? Like that kind of a wedge?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah, when I was talking to him, it seemed like that was his perspective, that this was something that really should be, at least in some way, shape, or form, released to the general public. Just to solidify the conversation, just to let people know, like, these are real. This is a real thing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
These are not just – have you seen the one that people were filming just a couple of days ago in Palmdale, California? Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Right. What is the oldest video footage or film footage that you have ever seen or heard?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
It doesn't matter. What is the oldest where it's like, okay, what the fuck is this? What's the oldest stuff that's compelling? The point is, what I'm trying to get at is a lot of people point to the possibility that there's some sort of a secret program, some sort of secret propulsion, gravity-based, whatever it is, that's completely different than conventional propulsion systems that the U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
government has and that they're operating these drones. And the problem with that is always the Kenneth Arnold sightings, the Roswell, the sightings from a time where that technology just wasn't available at all. Joe, I'm so glad you asked me that question.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
This summary of observations of aerial phenomenon has been prepared for the purpose of reemphasizing and reiterating the fact that the phenomena have continuously occurred in the New Mexico skies during the past 18 months. and are continuing to occur, and secondly, that these phenomena are occurring in the vicinity of sensitive military and government installations.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And if you want to go back to like paragraph two, there you go. The highlighted part? Yeah, the observers of. The observers of those phenomenon include scientists, special agents of the Office of Special Investigations, the U.S.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Air Force, airline pilots, military pilots, Los Alamos security inspectors, military personnel, and many other persons of various occupations whose reliability is not questioned. And now scroll to the top of the very top of that document. It says that it was determined above that, the summary of observations of aerial phenomenon in the New Mexico area, December 1948 to May 1950.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at Robinhood.com slash election. The risk of loss in trading commodities interest can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment. This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives. A registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at Robinhood.com slash election. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
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The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yes, sir. May 25th, 1950. Right. It says that the – it was determined that the frequency of unexplained area phenomena in the New Mexico area was such that an organized plan of reporting these observations should be undertaken.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
president by Congress. Learn more about the presidential election contracts on Robinhood at Robinhood.com slash election. The risk of loss in trading commodities interest can be substantial. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. Restrictions and eligibility requirements apply.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Right, and do they have any film of these crafts from New Mexico?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Director of Special Investigate. What does it say? It's hard because it's all scratchy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Oh, I see. From the Director of the FBI. Department of the Air Force, the Pentagon. Yeah, J. Edgar Hoover. Director of Federal Bureau of Investigations.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Flying. God, it's hard to read because it's all screwy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah, flying disks reportedly seen in the vicinity of something, river plant?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Did they let you see any of these ancient films, these films from the 1950s of these things?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
But wouldn't you want to just, like, if you really think this thing is from somewhere else, the best example of it definitely not being ours is something from the 1950s.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
It's crazy. It's like half the things are blotted out and scratchy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Commodity interest trading is not appropriate for everyone. Displayed prices are based on real-time market sentiment. This event contract is offered by Robinhood Derivatives. a registered futures commission merchant and swap firm. Exchange and regulatory fees apply. Learn more at Robinhood.com slash election.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
What are they, a fucking shitty old 1920 fax machine? Look at that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So do they have repeated footage? Because you're saying three decades, but obviously we're talking about 1950. Do they have stuff from the 1980s, stuff from the 1990s?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So if we go back to the history of the debunking of it, like the Project Blue Book stuff, J. Allen Hynek, after he had left Project Blue Book, he became a proponent of UFO disclosure.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
During Project Blue Book, it was his job to essentially dismiss everything and to come up with some sort of a reason, swamp gas, mass hallucinations, whatever it was, to attribute all these sightings to something that was very easy to explain. Did they ever – is there any documentation or any discussion of why they did that, why they chose to debunk everything?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
There you go. So tell everybody what your official job was. Wow. I had a lot of official jobs. With the government in regards to, you know. You know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Jesus. And so when Philip Corso was dismissing all these different things, did they have anything, any film footage, any stuff from that time from Project Blue Book that was like definitively not ours?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Sure. One of these things. That's allegedly, that's a replica of the one that Bob Lazar worked on, the sport model.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Right, but how is it getting filmed? Is any of it getting filmed by the general public or is all this military stuff?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And it seems like you got plenty of compelling footage from the military.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Designs by Perry. The E in Perry is a three, and he's a dude on Instagram that sent me that. Very cool. Pretty dope, right? Yeah. We have another one that looks just like it at the Mothership at the Comedy Club. When you walk in, you walk right through like a giant suspended UFO. Very cool. So obviously I have issues.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So that's a lot of them, right? A lot of them are reported as being transmedium.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Is the assumption that they are doing something with space, time, and gravity around them rather than using something like a jet propulsion engine that blasts fire out the back and it makes it go fast forward? Right. That they're doing something that alters the gravity around them.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
That's how- Are there any theories as to how it's accomplishing this?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Some people can. There's a video form of it. I'm sure this will get on. It'll be on YouTube as well.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So what you've done is essentially you've created a three-dimensional looking grid stacked. It looked like stacked boxes on top of each other.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So these are essentially just theoretical explanations of how these things are moving.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So they realized one of the reasons why these things are weird looking is because they're literally creating... Do you want a light?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Thank you. So The back thing, the other side. Push that down. There you go. Bam. Thank you very much. No problem. So how much of this is theoretical and how much of this is observed from recovered vehicles?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Why is the Pentagon teasing us? Why are they allowing you to say we are in possession of something that was not made by human beings but not allowed to elaborate, not allowed to show these very compelling videos that you're talking about that you've seen?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Could you steel man their position? Say again. Steel man their position, meaning could you argue it from their perspective? Absolutely.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
What would be a good reason to keep this stuff quiet?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So obviously there's some people that don't want this to be released. And obviously there's some people that think that the general public has a right to know.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, that makes sense. I mean, like when everybody says the CIA does this, like, okay, who? Who in the CIA?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
But I also could see it from their perspective. Like, they're probably insanely busy already. And the last thing they want to do is get involved in this thing where now they have a PR campaign where they're trying to let people know about this thing and not cause mass panic.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Especially with kids, right? Kind of nuts that they don't clean up the capital of the fucking country. It seems like it's kind of indicative of the rot the whole country is involved in.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And after the 2017 New York Times report, which was probably one of the biggest moments in UFO disclosure. Because it was in the New York Times. And then you see something like that in the New York – especially the New York Times in 2017. People really respected it. It's like this is a real story.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
100%. So there's people that would be liable for not being straightforward with Congress.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And then they make it a political issue. Right. And they go after someone for—
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah, it seems like they could fix that. Yeah. Especially in that place. Yeah, one would hope, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So that would be an impediment to release. That makes a lot of sense.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, I mean, also, this is a discussion that we've had on here before. If you did find something, who would you bring it to? You bring it to the people that build your fucking jets. Like, hey, guys, what the hell is this? Like, you know, you make some sort of a top secret agreement. You bring it to them in some sort of undisclosed facility.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Bring the guys in and go, what the fuck is this thing? Yeah. You kind of have to. Otherwise, what else would you do? I mean, how else do you find out how these things work? And if you were going to do it in a secretive manner, you would have to bring it to defense contractors because those are the only people that are capable of making things. They make your jets.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
They make the, you know, every stealth bomber, whatever the fuck it is. They make all that shit.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
I mean, garage door openers seem like magic. Right. It really does.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah. It's kind of bananas. You press a button on your car and all of a sudden your door opens. Right. And you drive in and you press another button and it closes. And it's all done through the air. Right. Which is bananas. Magic. But we're just accustomed to it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah. So this kind of technology, I'm sure you're aware of the Bob Lazar story.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
That thing right there, the sport model, and that he was brought in as a propulsions expert to try to – they didn't know how it exactly worked, but they sort of just said, tell me what this is. Roger. And then along the way, he realized, oh, this isn't even ours.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
He's a very, very interesting guy. I had dinner with him with my friend Andrew Schultz and Jeremy Corbell. We went to dinner and, you know, informally talked and had a fascinating conversation. Jeremy's a great guy. He's a great guy. Yeah, he's really, you know, he's done a lot.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
He's a UFO nut. And he got me really way back in with his documentary of Bob Lazar, Flying Saucers, whatever the actual title of it is. But that documentary is fantastic. And it's essentially going over Bob Lazar's story from the 1980s to today.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Which he's told the exact same story, which is nuts that you have one giant lie your whole life like come on There's a lot of weirdness to the story obviously But like there is with everything there's a lot of people that want to discredit his His background and all sorts of other things but the reality of what he's saying is essentially what we're seeing in these crafts Which is very strange
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So he described how these things worked and how they moved and how they would turn sideways and sort of like project this, whatever this, reactor that they have inside of them. And he talked about this element, element 115. They have a stable version of it that was essentially theoretical at the time in 1980.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
No one really knew whether or not that thing actually even exists, 89 or whatever it was. And that it would douse this thing, project radiation upon it, and it would create this warp, this gravity warp, this thing that allowed this this craft to move in ways that defied our understanding of propulsion systems.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And he drew it. He has diagrams of what this thing looked like and how it worked. And it essentially looked exactly like that little model that's on the desk there and that he felt like the whole – it didn't make any sense. He said the whole thing, it didn't have any seams, which now we understand 3D printing, right? So now we know that we can actually – But only now, not back then, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
you know but now you know obviously now we have carbon fiber we have a bunch of different ways of constructing things but back then he didn't know what the that thing was he said it looked like it had all been melted like into place like that had been like almost like smooth like wax like melted wax and that it had no instrumentation inside of it and it was designed for very small things like something that was like three feet tall
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And that all these things seem to operate through the being itself, had some sort of connection to the craft, some sort of strange way of interfacing with the craft that didn't have anything to do with pulling levers and moving things.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So it's, you know, again... How does the helmet... Is it similar to like a Neuralink setup? Have you seen the new video of the second Neuralink patient? I have not. There's a video of him playing Counter-Strike. Is it Counter-Strike or is it... Is that it? So Counter-Strike, which is a very popular online 3D game, and this guy who does not have use of his body has this Neuralink implant.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
He's the second Neuralink patient. Right. And apparently with each iteration, it gets more and more sophisticated and better. So this is from this person's point of view. He's playing this video game entirely with his mind.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Because the first guy, the first Neuralink patient we had him on, and he said essentially it's like having an aim bot because you don't miss. You look at the thing you're trying to shoot at and instantaneously your crosshairs go there. Wow. Yeah. So he's well, this stuff is taking place entirely. This is all him doing this entirely with his mind.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
is beginning to turn to that and we're using ai and all these other augmentation to enhance performance and so i i don't think that's out of the realm of of possibility no certainly not i mean just go from garage door openers to you know 500 600 years ago right to today and then cell phones the ability to send video across the world instantaneously all the sophisticated stuff that we just completely take for granted because it's become a normal part of our everyday life
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, we exist and we do send things to other planets. We do send things into space. It only makes sense that something far more intelligent than us that would be doing that. And if they did, they'd probably watch an emerging civilization, which is essentially what we are. Right. And like you said, 200,000 years, which is nothing. Right. the existence of homo sapiens.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
They've gone from things that use stones and flint map to things that can fly things through the air. I mean, if you look at Orville Wright and Wilbur Wright when they flew the first airplane, you go from that to the Apollo 11 launch, that's only like, what, 50 years? That's right. Something crazy like that? That's right. That's nuts. And you just take that and everything moves exponentially.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
You take that and you imagine a civilization that's been around 10,000 years longer than us, 100,000 years longer, a million years longer than us, something that doesn't exist.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
But yeah, we live in a tiny sliver. And the idea that we're alone, I think, is preposterous. I really do. And I know people, they constantly chime in with this, where's the evidence? Elon's famously said, if the aliens are real, they're very subtle. I don't know why he says that, though.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
I think he probably says that because he doesn't want to sound like a kook while he's working with NASA and SpaceX, you know? I'd probably say some stuff like that, too.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Plants and animals. Was it reasonable to theorize that there's aliens amongst us?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Non-human intelligence that looks like us, moves around with us.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah, there you go, right? Carrying little baby pandas. Exactly, right? Boy, those are shitty panda bear outfits too. They're fucking terrible looking.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
You put that in front of my dog, he's going to bark. If a dude in a dog costume, he'll be like, uh-uh, that ain't a fucking dog. That's a wild panda bear. No, that dude's not a panda bear. That's crazy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
That looks like a fucking alien. If it was really dark out and that guy grabbed you and zapped you with a tranquilizer, you'd have an alien story.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So the ocean is largely undiscovered. One of the things that people need to understand is that most of the exploration of the ocean is really essentially around the outside edges. That's right. It's around the shores.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Which is nuts. 90 percent of the ocean. That's right. Like what?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah. That's fact. And these underwater crafts, like this enormous one that apparently was near this oil rig, how many of them have been – has there been more than one of those videos?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Find out what the fuck is up. So this thing is bigger than the sub and they followed it for hundreds of miles.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Man, the replacer always gets it done. Seriously, though, if you're hooked on Call of Duty, this is your time to jump in. Head over to callofduty.com slash blackops6 to get in the game. Call of Duty Black Ops 6. Available now. Rated M for Mature. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Dogs are amazing. They're loyal. They're lovable.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Bro, come talk to me. Please, sir. I only know the pilot. We'll put you in a fucking panda outfit. We'll disguise your voice. Tell me what the fuck you saw. I want to hear that story. Oh, my God. Small island. Yep. Black as the devil in a small island and round.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Maybe I have seen this. Is it kind of blurry looking night vision?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Do you think they're trying to let people see them? Like, have you had a guess?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
But not even from a military perspective. Like if a civilization was trying to alert another civilization about its presence, wouldn't it like go towards whatever military vehicles it has and show itself and then –
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
I would imagine that if they understand human beings, they understand our psychology and they understand that some giant size of an island, black as the devil, circular craft that lands next to the Pentagon would fucking end the world. We would freak out. No one would know what to do. That would be stock market crash, mass chaos. No one would know what to do.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
The way to introduce yourself, I would imagine, would be gradual over a long period of time to allow this civilization to accept the fact these things exist and then slowly but surely show versions of themselves.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Very likely not human right, but would you have to assign human traits to it? Or would you have if you you could look at it from the perspective of? These things are aware of our psychology. They're aware of how we function and they're aware of the fragility of our worldview No, good point.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
You don't have to have human intention to have a strategy for doing the least amount of harm to this emerging civilization.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah. I mean, it just makes sense that if it understands us, if it's absurd. Look, we understand the behavior characteristics of sloths. Right. Right. We study them. We know what they do. And it would just make sense that if they're studying us, they would understand our behavior characteristics.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So, yeah, there's no way they would come here with ignorance. And I think also it's very likely that what we are exists in many, many places in the universe and that what we are is what they used to be. So they probably understand what we are.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yes. Yeah, no question. And obviously, if they are these super intelligent creatures, they evolve to become super intelligent creatures. So there's probably some sort of universal process that takes place amongst all intelligent, creative life. that has a lust for innovation.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
They consistently make better and better versions of these flying crafts until they figure out how to make this warp drive thing that these things apparently have. Another thing that's odd is that you see the same kind of things that Kenneth Arnold saw in 1950. You see the same kind of things today. It's almost like
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
you know going somewhere in the 1950s and seeing a 55 chevy and then in 2024 seeing another 55 they're still driving around 55 chevys like what the well they do do that in cuba right but that's just because they don't have access to other cars they have a choice really good mechanics that's your people
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
I don't think there's anything wrong with cigars, man. Like I was saying before, I never heard of a single person dying from cigars. You don't inhale them. Take a little bit of smoke in your mouth. It's pleasurable. It's nice. I would just think that that's what they would do because that's what we would do. And I think that's what intelligent life would do.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
We've recognized something that wasn't quite as intelligent as us. We don't rush into these, you know, remote tribes and vaccinate them. What do we do? We don't give them. But, you know, the thing is, like, they have done some things like they gave Starlink to this one tribe. And the kids all started watching porn. You hear about that? I heard. Yeah. It became a real problem. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
They're all lazy, hanging out on their phones all day, which makes sense. It's like, that's what we do. Yeah. But the tribal leaders are not happy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
It makes sense. It makes sense that everything moves into greater levels of complexity, from single-celled organisms to human beings that pilot drones. It just keeps going in the same general direction, observably here.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And if the universe is infinite, that means there's infinite versions of what we're seeing here with us that exists throughout the cosmos and probably in infinite steps along the way, right? A hundred years from now, a thousand years from now.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, the government is supposed to be working for us ultimately, and they are supposed to be us. And the problem is when you have access to information that's above and beyond the normal person's realm – that could affect everyone on this planet, this understanding that we are not alone. But not only that, we're probably not even alone here. It's not even that something is visiting us.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Something's probably here all the time. And this is the main thought about these underwater vehicles.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
It seems like if we can actually find it on Mars, like you were saying before, they may have found some sort of an evidence of microbiological life. If we find it on Mars and we find it somewhere, they think maybe Europa underneath the surface.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And Europa probably is powered by volcanic vents the same way the bottom of our ocean is. There might be some sort of life form there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And this is just what we know about here. Imagine all the different potential realities in terms of what a planet's atmosphere could be like. You're dealing with larger planets that have more gravity. You're dealing with different kinds of temperature variations.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Right. How much, I don't know if you could talk about this, but how much of an effort is there to try to detect things under the surface of the ocean? Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Speaking of going that far back, I mean, how much of – I got to think that when people are delving into this stuff, they look at ancient scriptures and ancient – these different depictions of things, whether it's the Vyamanas in the Hindu texts and whether it's in the Bhagavad Gita. There's all these different stories in Ezekiel and the Bible. There's things that seem to –
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
If I was a person living thousands of years ago and I encountered a flying saucer or encountered some spaceship from another planet, I would probably describe it in a way that they're describing it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
I mean – Just like sort of the Aztecs describe people on horses.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, he's the reason that guy in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. He's the inspiration for the French guy. I heard that. Yeah.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
When you're talking to him, you're like, oh, that's the guy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah, it only makes sense that these things, if they're here now, they've probably been visiting us since back when we were on horseback and probably quite a bit before then. And maybe that's the scariest thing for people. They might be responsible for us being humans in the first place.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, not only that, krakens they think likely did exist. Because octopus, when they rot, they don't leave anything. But they did find fossilized suction cups.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah, that for sure. But they think maybe perhaps even an enormous octopus that probably actually did go after boats.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Yeah. Yeah. Again, it makes sense. That was one of the more weird parts of Bob Lazar's story was that they've always been here and that they view us as containers. Containers. Interesting. Yeah. And he said there's a very thick document that relays to the. the implications that it has on religion and the way they talk about us.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, I think the term was... I think they were saying vessels for souls. But if you imagine... that a being transcends its physical limitations of biological reality. So the biological evolution that led us to become Homo sapiens over the course of X amount of millions of years, that's a very slow process. But technological innovation and technological progress is very quick. Very quick.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
That's right. So if something comes along that... is a life form that exists outside of biology, like something that we create, which it seems like we're doing right now.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Maybe that thing, in order for it to ever occur, maybe that thing needs... a thing with a soul that has a creative desire, that has a lust for innovation and continues to make better and better things. And maybe that thing only exists in biology. And maybe the problem with artificial life is that it has no motivation. And that we have, especially if it's self-programmable, right?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So one of the very bizarre things that was recently discovered about artificial intelligence, they gave artificial intelligence a certain amount of time to code something, to figure something out. And when it didn't have enough time, it changed its code to give itself more time. Fascinating. Yeah, like what? What the fuck are you talking about? It's deciding that it doesn't like its limitations.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
It won't have any of the biological motivation we have, right? It won't have ego. It won't have materialism. It won't have a desire for status. It won't have all the things that lead us to do some of the horrible things that human beings do.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And also some of the great things that human beings do. But maybe it also doesn't have any desire to create. And maybe the only way for its kind of life to exist is... is for a human being a biological thing that super intelligent in comparison to the rest the animals on this planet that innovates to the point where it creates this artificial life
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Hmm. So he says this to you and then – so we're talking about like what, 16 years ago? 15, 16 years ago?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
So this is the beginning of your journey towards this sort of bizarre subject of whatever these things are. So you don't have any real previous interest. He says this to you. And then what's the steps after that? Like how do you get introduced to this idea that these things are alien crafts?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
I had a very similar feeling when I went to my grandfather's funeral and I saw him in the casket because it was an open casket and I knew he's gone. I'm like, that's not him. That's right. It's just a shell. And you can sense it. You feel it. Yeah. It was a very strange feeling. Yeah. You know, and obviously he's wearing makeup because they've got him in a suit and the whole deal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
But I was like, that is not my grandfather. He's not there anymore.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
There's a bizarre feeling that we have that you don't – I don't think there's words for it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
The idea that we're containers for souls is just so goddamn creepy. This is a farm of souls.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well, it's scary for us. You've got to wonder why we are so different than every other creature in that we have this insane, insatiable desire to change our environment. Constantly build bigger skyscrapers to move the earth. We're constantly inventing new technology. I mean, it seems to be an instinct that's a part of us.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
And if this gradual progression of life goes from intelligent biological life to super intelligent whatever it is, whatever kind of technology creates it. that life is not as simple as, this natural selection model that we have here that we think applies to life. This is a type of life, and then there's a life that this thing creates.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Is this sort of conversation being had in the government about what these things potentially are?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
It's also other human beings. The government is just human beings. That's right. Human beings shouldn't have this insane knowledge and keep it from other human beings.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Well said, Lou. Thank you very much, man. Thanks for being here. I really enjoyed it. Really enjoyed our conversation.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Just having Marshall around can make my day ten times better. I'm sure you love your dog just as much, and you want to do your best to help them live longer, healthier, happier lives. And a healthy life for your dog starts with healthy food, just like it does for us. There's a reason having a balanced diet is so important.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
But thank you very much. Thanks again. I really appreciate everything you've said, and I appreciate everything you said about disclosure and how important it is. I couldn't agree more. Sure.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Thank you very much. Yes, sir. All right. Bye, everybody. This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience is brought to you by Call of Duty. You know, when a new Call of Duty drops, everyone's trying to find a way to squeeze in those extra hours of gameplay. I get it. Life is busy, but sometimes you just need it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2194 - Luis Elizondo
Man, the replacer always gets it done. Seriously, though, if you're hooked on Call of Duty, this is your time to jump in. Head over to callofduty.com slash blackops6 to get in the game. Call of Duty Black Ops 6. Available now. Rated M for Mature.