The first amendment is a cornerstone of American democracy. This week on The Sunday Story, we hear from people who feel their right to free speech might be changing under the Trump Administration. NPR's Morning Edition co-host Leila Fadel joins Ayesha Rascoe to share what she learned when she talked to teachers and students, pastors and scientists, and others about whether they feel emboldened or silenced in America today.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
Chapter 1: What is the main claim about free speech made by President Trump?
I have stopped all government censorship and brought back free speech in America.
It's back. Thank you. Days later, immigration agents arrested Mahmoud Khalil, a legal permanent resident and Palestinian graduate student at Columbia University, for his participation in campus protests against Israel's war in Gaza. More international students who are here legally have been arrested since and face the possibility of deportation.
Some First Amendment experts have observed these detentions with concern.
Chapter 2: Who is Mahmoud Khalil and why is his case significant?
Insofar as the government is going after this person, Khalil, because of ideas that he expressed, we have a direct collision with the First Amendment.
My colleague, Morning Edition co-host Leila Fadl, wanted to take a closer look at how the right to free speech might be changing for different people in the U.S. right now. She wanted to hear from people who feel more freedom to speak at this moment.
I don't see that conservatives are just, in general, much more willing to speak their mind.
As well as those who feel they're being forced into silence.
They just sort of shut down the conversation by saying, I'm putting you on a list. It's somewhat intimidating.
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Chapter 3: What insights did Leila Fadel gather about free speech in America?
This past week, Layla and her team at Morning Edition aired a series of conversations with educators and students, scientists and advocacy groups and others. After the break, she joins me to talk about some of what she learned about the current state of free speech in America. We'll be right back.
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We're back with the Sunday story. Hi, Layla. Hi. Welcome. We're both in the same place for once. So, you know, the right to free speech is enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution. And I think most Americans would consider it untouchable. Why is this an important moment to take a closer look at the First Amendment?
Yeah, well, you're right, Ayesha. The First Amendment is enshrined in the Constitution. But throughout U.S. history, there have been moments in which that right to free speech has really been threatened. People talk about the Red Scare, the McCarthy era, even John Adams in 1798 when he passed laws that he then used. to prosecute journalists and dissidents who criticized him.
Immigration, scientific research, education, the role of the press. And so we just wanted to get a sense of who was feeling silenced and why and who was feeling really emboldened and empowered in this moment. And so we put a call out to our listeners and we got responses.
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Chapter 4: How have recent political changes affected free speech on campuses?
And these are teachers, researchers, pastors, you know, regular Americans who are in our communities. And that was really, at least for me, really surprising to hear in the U.S.,
It seems like there's a lot of fear in the air. Obviously, there are deep political divisions in the U.S., but it seems like the ground has really shifted recently. And not that long ago during the Biden administration, it seemed like accusations of censorship were mostly came from people on the right.
People would talk about, quote unquote, wokeism as a tool for censorship, the idea that they could be canceled and socially ostracized for having the wrong views or politically incorrect views. So how did you try to find some clarity on this moment in history?
Yeah. I mean, the first thing we did was reach out to two First Amendment legal scholars who really both are seen as advocates for that amendment and for free speech, but they come from different perspectives. One is Lee Bollinger, and he's the former president of Columbia University, and we all know what's happening with Columbia University right now. They've had their funding threatened.
They've made major overhauls of their security and protester rules to try to comply with the Trump administration's guidance to get that funding back. And they also agreed to the Trump administration's demand that they appoint a provost to provide oversight now over departments that teach about the Middle East, South Asia, and Africa. By the way, none of those areas of study are
are the ones that were getting the federal funding. And Bollinger is seen as one of the foremost scholars on the First Amendment and free speech in this country.
I always say, you know, nobody is born believing in the First Amendment. You know, we have to learn that. And so it's a continual effort by a democracy.
And then we also reached out to Jonathan Turley. He's another very respected legal scholar on the First Amendment. He's often on Fox News as a commentator. And he recently wrote a book called the indispensable right, free speech in an age of rage.
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Chapter 5: What are the fears surrounding censorship in academic settings?
Arguably the most revolutionary moment of the American Revolution came with the First Amendment. What was done in the First Amendment had never been done before, and today it remains revolutionary.
And they really had... different perspectives on when they have felt that speech is threatened in this modern time. So in Bollinger's view, the danger is clearly right now.
I'm very alarmed by efforts to get media, major media, to become more silent. I'm worried about intrusions into university decision-making, traditional doctrines of academic freedom. I'm worried about threats of prosecution and other types of means of quelling dissent.
He talked about how there's a moment like every 20, 30 years where the First Amendment free speech is really threatened. And he says the U.S. is going in that direction now.
You're really using the enormous power of the federal government to act. Now, Turley...
He argues it was actually the Biden administration that was anti-free speech. And he points to something we hear a lot from Republicans and Trump allies, that on social media, conservative voices were being censored. And they say there was collusion with the government to make sure these voices were shut out or sidelined in academia, on social media.
What happened during the Biden administration is that you had – a level of cooperation, coordination between the government and these other entities, that the effect was that thousands were censored.
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Chapter 6: What differing perspectives do legal scholars have on free speech today?
Now, Layla, this charge of censorship on social media platforms, that's something we've heard a lot from Republicans and Trump allies. But a Supreme Court decision last year on procedural grounds rejected a lower court's broad assertion that social media companies were making censorship decisions
decisions at the behest of the government, though they did acknowledge that the government played a role in at least some of the platform's moderation choices. What else did Turley say?
The other thing that Turley said is he sees Trump as a possible ally in free speech.
Our greatest allies tend to be people who were subject to censorship. Trump is an example of that. I mean, he was banned from social media.
But he is still withholding judgment about where this administration will land on free speech.
Well, it's too early to tell whether the Trump administration will make free speech truly part of its legacy in the second term.
So you heard there very different perspectives from Bollinger and Turley about when free speech has been threatened, under which administrations. But there was a topic where they really kind of agreed. And that is the topic that you mentioned, the students that we've seen on visas or green card holders who are being detained.
and possibly deported, having their visas revoked, over what it seems like is their choice to protest or express a point of view about the Gaza war.
These students, including these permanent residents, are allowed to protest in favor of Palestine, to criticize Israel. That's part of the core protections that define us as a people.
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Chapter 7: How do groups like Moms for Liberty view their freedom to speak now?
I have to be very careful with the time I allow students to speak, what I'm allowing them to say. when to shut things down because it's going to get too controversial.
And so when her kids started making connections or saying things that might be not positive about the administration, she would just shut it down.
There are times where I just have to tell them, we have to stop talking about this now. We can't continue on with this conversation, or I just have to change the subject so that we can move into something else.
She just didn't want to feel like she was running awry of these very vague guidelines. And she didn't want to use even her first name with us because she was so scared of what repercussions might exist. She asked us only to identify her with her first initial E. Now, we reached out to the Department of Education, of course, about the intentions of this end DEI portal and about what would happen.
You know, if somebody gets reported, what's the process look like and what are the possible penalties for that? And we so far haven't gotten a response to those repeated requests. We spoke to another teacher in Idaho. Her name is Sarah Inama. She teaches sixth grade. And she had a sign up in her classroom and And it said, everyone is welcome here.
And the letters were multicolored, and there were hands up with little hearts in the middle, and each hand was a different skin tone. She'd had it up for years in her classroom, and one day the principal and vice-principal were going through the hallway looking for things that might not comply with new parameters, and they decided it was controversial.
No parents had complained, nothing like that, and they told her, you need to take it down.
And so she did. She took the sign down. I've lost sleep over this. I can't stop thinking about it. It's just so wrong. I just felt so gross feeling complacent in it.
She told me, I just don't want my students to think that I no longer believe in what that sign said. that they're all welcome here, no matter what their background is. So you put the poster back up.
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Chapter 8: What is the current atmosphere regarding race education in schools?
law firms are making deals with the Trump administration so they won't deal with any retribution or ramifications for cases they took up that Trump saw as against him. I mean, Ayesha, also it's the media, the press. The job that we do every day is to serve our listeners and ask the hard questions of those in power and reflect the nation as it is.
And so we've seen moves that seem threatening to the press. NPR is The New York Times, Politico, and others were kicked out of their Pentagon offices and replaced. And then for the first time, the president is picking— the pool of reporters that cover his activities rather than the press picking them.
So that could lead to him being like, oh, I'm going to pick these four people because they cover me in the way that I like, which would go against a free press. And you know, President Trump has made it pretty clear that he will go after the media or perceived political enemies if he feels that they're treating him unfairly.
He spoke on the floor of the Justice Department saying that he thinks what CNN and MSNBC are doing is illegal or should be illegal. And he's saying that inside the Justice Department. And so there are big questions about the media as well and our role in this moment.
I guess, like, can we talk about the stakes here? Yeah. Because it does seem like when we were talking about cancel culture, that was serious. Some people lost their jobs or people lost income. Certainly everyone will say threats go all over the place, especially online. But what is at stake at this moment? And what are the consequences that people are facing?
Yeah. I mean, I think it's really important not to minimize what happens when somebody gets quote-unquote canceled over speech the larger public has decided is unacceptable, right? I mean, people are barred from certain social media accounts maybe. They maybe lose their job, maybe lose friends, are completely sidelined.
But what I'm hearing from a lot of people now who feel the chilling is not that the pushback is coming from the public. This is coming from the government. It isn't that they're getting canceled. It's that they're being told, if you use these words, if you have this viewpoint, if you use this speech, you're not going to get federal funding. You're going to face retribution.
So how are people reacting to these threats?
You know, what we heard a lot of was self-censorship. Like before you even figure out what the consequences are, just try to get in line. So, oh, it looks like this executive order is saying all of this type of language will probably be unacceptable. Let me take climate change out of my report. Let me take any mention of woman, of non-binary, equity, inclusion, diversity, you know, things that
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