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Supreme Court Hears TikTok Case, Syrians Return Home, French Rape Trial Verdicts

Thu, 19 Dec 2024

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TikTok's U.S. future is up to the Supreme Court. The Chinese-owned company wants the high court to stop a ban of the app from taking effect next month. Many Syrian refugees say they want to go home, now that the Assad regime is gone — but what will wait there for them? In France, judges delivered verdicts in a rape case that has shocked the nation and the world. Want more comprehensive analysis of the most important news of the day, plus a little fun? Subscribe to the Up First newsletter. Today's episode of Up First was edited by Kara Plantoni, Arezou Rezvani, Ryland Barton, HJ Mai and Mohamad ElBardicy. It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas and Kaity Kline. We get engineering support from Nisha Heinis, and our technical director is Carleigh Strange.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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Transcription

2.898 - 14.213 Michelle Martin

TikTok's American future is now up to the Supreme Court. The Chinese-owned company wants the high court to stop a ban of the app from taking effect next month. What does this mean for the tens of millions of TikTok users?

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14.313 - 19.06 Steve Inskeep

I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin, and this is Up First from NPR News.

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21.964 - 36.312 Michelle Martin

7,000 Syrian refugees have been living in a makeshift camp on the Jordanian border for the past nine years. Now, after the fall of the Assad regime, most of them want to go home, but what will wait for them there? And Pierce, Jane Araf is one of the first journalists to have visited the campsite.

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36.453 - 49.1 Steve Inskeep

Also, judges delivered verdicts in a French rape case that shocked many people around the world. The victim has become a feminist hero, but will the trial make a difference for others? Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day.

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137.009 - 151.621 Steve Inskeep

TikTok and the Department of Justice are heading to the Supreme Court. The court accepted TikTok's request to hear arguments about a law that could ban the viral video app next month. The court's chosen timing matters here as much as the decision to hear the case.

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151.722 - 160.189 Steve Inskeep

The justices often move deliberately and take many months, but they chose in this case to move quickly, scheduling an argument for TikTok within three weeks on January 10th.

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160.689 - 164.192 Michelle Martin

And parents Bobby Allen is with us to talk about what this could mean. Good morning, Bobby.

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164.512 - 164.893 Bobby Allen

Good morning.

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165.153 - 166.754 Michelle Martin

So why is the Supreme Court stepping in?

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167.475 - 183.369 Bobby Allen

Well, in short, because TikTok requested an emergency review. And this is TikTok's last legal shot, right? The company has been fighting a law that is set to take effect on January 19th that bans the app nationwide unless it splits off from its Chinese parent company ByteDance.

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183.949 - 200.904 Bobby Allen

It recently lost a lower court appeal, and now the Supreme Court has scheduled expedited oral arguments, and the hearing is happening in three weeks. What are the main issues the court is being asked to resolve? Yeah, the case is about the balance between free speech and the possible threat of a foreign adversary.

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200.964 - 223.416 Bobby Allen

TikTok has long said that the Chinese government doesn't collect data on Americans and does not use the app to push propaganda. But U.S. officials say the risk of that happening is just too high and that the app has to be put out of business unless it sheds its China-based owner. Legal scholars say because of the First Amendment, government restrictions on speech are very hard to uphold in court.

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223.616 - 240.164 Bobby Allen

Usually the government can only suppress speech if it's really narrowly tailored to deal with a really specific problem. And a lower court ruled that the Chinese issue is actually enough to justify the ban. But now the Supreme Court is reviewing it and they could just come down differently.

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240.304 - 244.846 Michelle Martin

So it's TikTok's argument that this ban violates Americans' free speech rights?

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245.589 - 262.145 Bobby Allen

Yeah, that's right. The 170 million Americans on the app and actually TikTok's own free speech rights, they say, as a corporation because they have a L.A.-based company. And using the algorithm and pushing content, courts have shown, is another type of free speech. So there's kind of two free speeches at play here.

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262.486 - 267.711 Michelle Martin

OK, so what could this mean for the tens of millions of Americans who use TikTok? I mean, some people use it every day.

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268.291 - 288.528 Bobby Allen

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So if the court overturns the law, you know, business as usual for the app. But if it is upheld, it could mean the app is going away very soon. The law is slated to start, you know, in early January. And at that point, TikTok, you know, will be kicked out of app stores on Apple and Android devices. So you won't be able to download it. And the app will lose web hosting services.

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288.588 - 304.654 Bobby Allen

So, you know, all the companies that provide back end support for TikTok, they'll have to drop the company. And if this happens, Michelle, it's not like the app's going to disappear from everyone's phone overnight or something. It's just going to get buggy. It's going to get slow. And eventually it's not going to be able to get software updates. So it'll stop working.

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305.194 - 326.179 Bobby Allen

You know, backing up for a moment here, though, you know, never before has the Supreme Court taken on a case over the U.S. government trying to shut down a massive social media platform. So this is entering some uncharted territory. And, you know, President-elect Donald Trump's administration is watching very closely. And where does Trump stand on this? Trump has given mixed signals on TikTok.

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326.199 - 344.096 Bobby Allen

He said he wanted to save the app and that he credits it with helping young voters turn out for him. But, you know, just this weekend, he said on NBC's Meet the Press if he will rescue the app. And he gave kind of an unclear, wishy-washy answer. Remember, Trump tried to ban TikTok during his first term and was not successful.

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344.537 - 364.362 Bobby Allen

No matter what, the court decides that the Trump administration has a ton of power here. If the Supreme Court upholds his law, his administration will be tasked with interpreting and enforcing it. So if TikTok loses at the Supreme Court, they're hoping Trump will just step in and rescue the app anyway. That is NPR's Bobby Allen. Bobby, thank you. Thanks, Michelle.

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372.23 - 377.032 Michelle Martin

There's already a lot changing in Syria now that dictator Bashar al-Assad is gone.

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377.093 - 389.739 Steve Inskeep

For one thing, people can move. Refugees are coming home. Syrians who were stuck on one side or another in the many battle lines can cross them for the first time in years. And journalists can get a fuller look at a country in transition.

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389.999 - 400.765 Michelle Martin

NPR's Jane Araf has been traveling the country, and she's with us on the line now from Damascus. Good morning, Jane. Good morning, Michelle. So as we said, you've been traveling around Syria this past week. Tell us some of what you found.

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401.805 - 423.244 Jane Araf

Yeah, well, Damascus itself, of course, has changed quite dramatically. I mean, just a couple of minutes ago, there were a bunch of sixth graders who were jumping up and down on a bronze statue of toppled leader Bashar al-Assad's head. We wanted to go further afield, though, so we traveled through Syrian's southern desert to a place I have been trying to get to for years.

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423.948 - 450.033 Jane Araf

It's the Rukban camp, and it's in this remote corner of the desert where people who are fleeing ISIS thought that they could go across to Jordan and then were trapped there. 7,000 people cut off for nine years. There's also a U.S. base there. It's part of the anti-ISIS coalition. They've been partnering with Syrian forces that ended up forcing the retreat of the Syrian regime.

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451.133 - 467.914 Jane Araf

So those refugees, those refugees in their own countries now have the possibility for the first time to go home. They don't have the money and they don't have a lot of other things, but there is the possibility. And up and down that highway. we were seeing the same thing.

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468.034 - 492.11 Jane Araf

Last night near Hama, one of the key towns that were taken that led to the retreat of the regime, there was a truck stop full of families traveling home. Inside, there were Syrians crowding a sweets counter. I spoke with one young mother who was going home for the first time in 13 years. She was going to introduce her kids to their grandparents.

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492.49 - 502.097 Jane Araf

There have obviously been a lot of tragedies, a lot of deaths, For the people who are able to reunite with their families, all of that time makes it somewhat sweeter.

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502.117 - 511.584 Michelle Martin

Now, you've also been following what's happening with Syrian Kurdish forces and Syrian Arab forces. The U.S. has been trying to broker a truce there. What did you find out about this?

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513.166 - 535.467 Jane Araf

Yesterday at the Euphrates River, about a six-hour drive from Damascus, we were at one of the dividing lines between U.S.-backed Kurdish-led forces and Turkish-backed fighters who played a big role in in the retreat of the regime here. And that road from Damascus to the Euphrates River kind of mirrors the fall of regime forces.

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535.667 - 555.796 Jane Araf

There were regime tanks on the road being stripped, fuel being siphoned by poor people, defaced posters of the regime, trucks with people heading home. But then when we got closer to Manbij, where Syrian Arab coalition fighters were recently in control, There was kind of a vacuum there and people were afraid.

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556.898 - 580.235 Jane Araf

We drove further along to near the actual front line and we spoke to a commander of one of the factions from Lua al-Shamal. He asked us to call him Abu Suleiman. He's the military commander for the operations room. He told us, that the Kurdish-led forces, who he called terrorists, had broken the ceasefire.

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580.255 - 591.404 Jane Araf

That's a ceasefire that's been negotiated by the U.S., but it is one of those fault lines and one of the areas of concern for the U.S. and others as to what happens in this new Syria.

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591.524 - 619.204 Michelle Martin

No, conflict's still simmering, it seems like. Absolutely. That is NPR's Jane Raff talking with us from Damascus. Jane, thank you. Thank you. Verdicts this morning have been handed down in a high-profile rape trial in the south of France.

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619.504 - 631.49 Steve Inskeep

51 men were on trial for raping a woman while she was drugged and unconscious over a period of years. Her husband was accused of orchestrating this abuse. The trial has shocked France and drawn the world's attention.

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631.75 - 643.359 Michelle Martin

And Paris Eleanor Beardsley is at the courthouse now. We're going to go to her in Avignon. Eleanor, good morning. Good morning, Michelle. Could you just start by reminding us who the accused are and, of course, tell us the verdicts?

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643.98 - 662.756 Eleanor Beardsley

Yeah, well, these are sort of the working class everyman in France, a baker, a firefighter. of all ages and races. And Giselle Pellico, she's a victim. Her husband was accused. He drugged her and recruited all of these men on an Internet site over a period of 10 years and filmed everything they did.

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663.256 - 684.048 Eleanor Beardsley

He got the maximum sentence, 20 years, and all of the other 50 men were found guilty of raping Giselle Pellico. Even though many of these men claim they did not rape her because her husband, you know, said they had permission, that she was in agreement. But there are aggravating circumstances to these rapes, and the sentences are all different.

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684.368 - 702.717 Eleanor Beardsley

So they seem to be tailored to each defendant, and it's still being read out. It's very technical. So some of the other men are getting lesser sentences than what the prosecution asked for. I'm hearing eight and ten years. And a couple people have just come out of the courtroom shouting and angry, and I'm not sure who that is and what that means, but this could be very conflictual today.

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703.157 - 707.18 Michelle Martin

So tell us more. We can hear that there's a hubbub there. Tell us about the scene there at the courthouse.

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707.48 - 722.511 Eleanor Beardsley

Well, first of all, huge security. There's never been a trial like this in France before. I was out since 7 in the morning in front of the courthouse, and there was just hundreds of people from the media all over the world. And also, you know, supporters of Giselle Pellico, who was the victim, who had banners and placards saying, We watched her family come in.

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722.551 - 741.382 Eleanor Beardsley

She has three grown children, and they've all testified that this has destroyed their lives. They've all disowned their father. And also the men who, you know, who have now been convicted because nobody was acquitted. They came in, you know, wearing hoodies and COVID masks and usually accompanied by a family member, a wife, because these guys are inserted into society.

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741.402 - 747.826 Eleanor Beardsley

They have family, some of them. And they were all carrying duffel bags because they are expecting to go straight to prison now from here.

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748.186 - 757.248 Michelle Martin

Say more, if you would, about the impact of this trial, which is, as Steve pointed out, has just, I mean, it's shaken the country to its core. And, I mean, it's attracted attention all over the world.

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757.748 - 777.078 Eleanor Beardsley

Absolutely. You know, it has everywhere. It started a huge conversation about this patriarchal society and the violence against women. Many people talk about there's a rape culture here, meaning that You know, serious crimes and also street harassment is not taken seriously enough. And the fact that these men said, well, they didn't rape her, but that's where there was video evidence.

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777.418 - 791.249 Eleanor Beardsley

And so as painful and sordid as this trial was, and to hear it and they've seen these videos, it's having a positive impact to activists because it's a wake-up moment. People are taking it seriously. You know, there might be more... Better education now, law enforcement, and French men have been tuned in.

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791.489 - 799.391 Eleanor Beardsley

Many prominent men have spoken out and said they were ashamed because these guys are not psychotic criminals. They're average men, and they're questioning the macho society.

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799.411 - 804.453 Michelle Martin

Before we let you go, tell us a bit more about the victim or the survivor, I think we should say, Giselle Pellicot.

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805.074 - 822.228 Eleanor Beardsley

Well, we can call her a hero, too, because she's a petite septuagenarian, and her face is known everywhere in France. She waived her right to anonymity, insisted this trial be open to the public and the media, and she's changed everything people said. She has made shame swap sides from the victims to the rapists. They say she's succeeded in doing that.

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822.648 - 825.57 Eleanor Beardsley

That is Eleanor Beardsley and Pierre's Eleanor Beardsley in Avignon.

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825.65 - 835.033 Michelle Martin

Eleanor, thank you. Thank you, Michelle. And that's up first per Thursday, December 19th. I'm Michelle Martin.

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835.093 - 856.388 Steve Inskeep

And I'm Steve Inskeep. There's an easy way to stay connected to news and podcasts from the NPR network. It is the NPR app. You hear community coverage from your local station because this is a network of local stations in communities across this country. You also hear stories from around the world and podcast suggestions from based on what you like. Download the NPR app in your app store.

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856.648 - 873.372 Michelle Martin

Today's episode of Up First was edited by Cara Platoni, Arzu Razvani, Rylan Barton, H.J. Mai, and Mohamed El-Bardisi. It was produced by Ziad Butch, Nia Dumas, and Katie Klein. We get engineering support from Nisha Heinous and our technical director is Carly Strange. We hope you'll join us again tomorrow.

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But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that. That's why, with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ml.com slash bullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk.

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Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith, Inc., registered broker-dealer, registered investment advisor, member SIPC. This message comes from NPR sponsor Merrill. Whatever your financial goals are, you want a straightforward path there. But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that.

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That's why, with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ml.com slash bullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith, Inc., registered broker-dealer, registered investment advisor, member SIPC.

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