Host Evan Ross Katz sits down with the legendary Jennifer Coolidge who played The White Lotus fan favorite Tanya McQuoid. They discuss Jennifer’s approach to playing Tanya, her time on set, on land and at sea, and how she really feels after two seasons. Plus, we hear from Mike White and some of The White Lotus cast about the unique and wonderful experience of knowing and working with Jennifer Coolidge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: How did Jennifer Coolidge become Tanya in The White Lotus?
Hello, I'm Evan Ross Katz, and welcome back to the White Lotus official podcast, specifically to the episode that we've all been waiting for. Okay, maybe not all of us, but definitely me. That's because today we're talking Jennifer Coolidge and Tanya.
Oh my God. This is such a beautiful view. I wonder if anyone's ever jumped from here.
As I mentioned in our first episode, Jennifer Coolidge and I initially met via Instagram. But we really became friends some months later after we hung out and hit it off. Or rather, that's how I would describe it. She might say, like, I just wouldn't leave her alone. People always ask me what Jen is like as a person. Is she similar to Tanya? Is she different from her?
And I often have a hard time explaining her je ne sais quoi. The best that I can do is that I'm never more alive than when I'm with her. Truly. A mutual friend of ours once said to me that getting to be around Jen is like when you randomly encounter a butterfly. It's special and magical, and then the butterfly has to fly away to do butterfly things. That's Jen.
And it's not just me that thinks this. Those fortunate enough to occupy her circle can all see the special glow she emits. Everyone who meets Jen has an instantly iconic Coolidge story. Just take it from Lucas Gage.
Has Coolidge ever told you about the wine story? I buy a bottle of wine. I'm sloppy. I'm an idiot. And I knock and crash the whole entire wine over. I break it. It explodes on the Four Seasons white couch and rug. Just shatters everywhere. I mean, it ruins all the furniture. I freak out. I feel horrible. They come out with like a bill, like an astronomical amount. I mean, maybe it was probably...
the right amount for the damage I had done. And I like turned away to clean myself up and I just see Coolidge in the corner of my eye taking care of it. And she just like put a hand in my back. She's like, I got it. I got it covered. So I don't know in my head if she, and I didn't, I feel like I've tried to press and ask her, I'm like, you can't pay.
She's like, I'm not just, I don't know if she took it under her wing and like took care of the bill or took care of the mess or just got the staff to not want to kill me and kick me out right then and there. She's just, I'm obsessed with her.
But listen, Jennifer Coolidge isn't just an incredible person to be around. She's also a wildly talented performer. On the screen, she's been a scene stealer since her breakout guest appearance on Seinfeld in 1993. After that came a string of unforgettable roles in films like American Pie, Best in Show, Legally Blonde, and A Cinderella Story.
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Chapter 2: What makes Jennifer Coolidge's performances unique?
And yet, for much of her career, Coolidge was often relegated to side characters. You know, the one who comes in, steals the show, and is gone by the time you can wipe the tears of laughter from your eyes. For gay men like myself, there's always been a certain Judy Garland-esque appeal to Coolidge, and a sixth sense that she was capable of far more than what she'd been given.
I discussed that appeal with Dan Savage, the sex and relationships advice columnist you heard from last episode.
Jennifer Coolidge, it's interesting. Her... I don't want to call it schtick. She's really a star, and a star plays themselves in film after film after film. Bette Davis was always Bette Davis, right? There were just different personifications of Bette Davis, different people that that spirit of Bette Davis inhabited. And that's who Jennifer Coolidge is, right? She's a big star.
There is something about her... her performance style, her appetites, that just comes across as kind of gay chaotic that we can identify with, right? She's a little... Not messy in a bad way, just hard to contain herself, right? And she spills out at the edges. And sometimes her characters are, you know, like Stifler's mom, we're self-medicating with alcohol a little bit.
Like, there's greater degrees of substance abuse in the gay community for a reason, and often that reason is about disinhibition and needing to disinhibit. And Jennifer Kluge's whole style is a kind of... I'm not saying she's, like... playing a gay man or sending up gay men, but, like, we recognize ourselves in her and how she moves through the world. You know, in part, she's beautiful.
Like, Stifler's mom was the original MILF. All the boys in American Bible wanted to fuck Stifler's mom. But she's big in a way that women aren't allowed to be big in the same way that gay men, bi men are... same-sex attracted in a way and big in a way that we're not supposed to be big. We're often, gay people grow up, sort of policing our behaviors and actions to rid ourselves of tells.
It's why so many people will write to me when their gay friends come out and say, oh, my friend came out as gay and now he walks different, sounds different, why is he acting gay? And it's like, no, no, no, he was acting straight before. He's no longer policing himself. And that's what I always got from watching Jennifer Coolidge in anything.
was there was something about the way she didn't police herself as a person, as a performer, as a figure in pop culture that I recognize as kind of what gay men do when they come out. Stop policing themselves, be big and messy and chaotic and hungry and have appetites and take up space. And that's what Coolidge does.
We met Jennifer in 2007. We did a movie called Gentlemen and Broncos.
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Chapter 3: Who is Tanya McQuoid and how is she portrayed in The White Lotus?
And I think also that Tanya was blinded by trying to find a solve for her pain. What Jennifer does brilliantly is she plays the empathy first. Obviously, she's such a comedic genius. But I think that the reason why we root for her, even though she's doing all of these terrible things, is that we see the pain that birthed the action. Do you know what I mean? We see the catalyst for how she moves.
And... Her feeling that, like, relationships are transactional and no one wants her for her. They just want her for her money. And her trying to constantly kick the tires on every relationship that she has to, you know, trust that it's authentic. And... Once you've been burned, how do you love again? Once you've been burned, how do you, like, open yourself up again?
And she's running from something, you know? So all of those wounds are so visible. And I think it makes it hard for people to write her off completely because she's so nuanced in how she moves through the world. And I think that... Belinda saw her wounds and addressed her wounds and healed some of those wounds. And so immediately, Tanya turns the relationship transactional.
I'll do something for you. Because she's not just used to receiving.
She's blind. She has blind spots. Dan Savage again. She is unintentionally non-maliciously cruel and hurtful. And for that, she gets a pass, right? Because we all have blind spots, and we all move through the world, sometimes oblivious to the damage we leave in our wake.
And one of the points I think White makes in season one is that the more wealth and power and privilege you have, the more oblivious you can be to people as you move through the world, shoving your money around.
For those of you gunning to hear from the woman herself, I did get the chance to talk all things Tanya with Jennifer Coolidge, after she had a little trouble finding the studio.
I mean, am I really going to turn into that kind of old fart where I can't find... I went past this building so many times. I don't think it's an old thing.
I think it's just a you thing, but I think it's a quirk. Jennifer told me that she was gratified that viewers gave Tanya a pass despite Tanya's, how shall we say, chronic obliviousness.
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Chapter 4: What are some memorable moments of Tanya on The White Lotus?
Chapter 5: How does Jennifer Coolidge's real-life personality compare to Tanya's?
Chapter 6: Why is Jennifer Coolidge adored by her co-stars and crew?
But I thought that, I mean, I think one of the corners that I sensed Greg turning, for better or for worse in his life, because he was dealing with his mortality, was his empathy. And I felt like he felt bad for her. He felt, at times, he really felt her pain, but just tried to kind of keep everything light with her.
Tanya spends a lot of season one latched onto Belinda, the resort spa employee played by Natasha Rothwell. Ultimately, she manipulates her, taking a long time to consider funding Belinda's own spa before reneging on the offer. Here's Natasha Rothwell.
I think that... When Tanya makes the offer to Belinda, she is genuine. And she really is inspired in that moment to be one of the good ones. And I think that Belinda was very vulnerable in sharing her hopes and dreams with a client of the White Lotus. While I know audiences were so angry and frustrated with her, I think that both Belinda's expectations were probably a little bit too high.
And I think also that Tanya was blinded by trying to find a solve for her pain. What Jennifer does brilliantly is she plays the empathy first. Obviously, she's such a comedic genius. But I think that the reason why we root for her, even though she's doing all of these terrible things, is that we see the pain that birthed the action. Do you know what I mean? We see the catalyst for how she moves.
And... Her feeling that, like, relationships are transactional and no one wants her for her. They just want her for her money. And her trying to constantly kick the tires on every relationship that she has to, you know, trust that it's authentic. And... Once you've been burned, how do you love again? Once you've been burned, how do you, like, open yourself up again?
And she's running from something, you know? So all of those wounds are so visible. And I think it makes it hard for people to write her off completely because she's so nuanced in how she moves through the world. And I think that... Belinda saw her wounds and addressed her wounds and healed some of those wounds. And so immediately, Tanya turns the relationship transactional.
I'll do something for you. Because she's not just used to receiving.
She's blind. She has blind spots. Dan Savage again. She is unintentionally non-maliciously cruel and hurtful. And for that, she gets a pass, right? Because we all have blind spots, and we all move through the world, sometimes oblivious to the damage we leave in our wake.
And one of the points I think White makes in season one is that the more wealth and power and privilege you have, the more oblivious you can be to people as you move through the world, shoving your money around.
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Chapter 7: What insight does Natasha Rothwell provide about her character's relationship with Tanya?
It's a book, though.
I can relate.
In a late episode, Quentin, played by Tom Hollander, takes Tanya to see Madame Butterfly on stage in Palermo, and Tanya is moved to tears. Only later does Tanya find out that Quentin isn't her friend, and that he's actually plotting to kill her for her fortune. I hate when that happens.
Oh my God. Portia, meet me in Termina. We gotta get the fuck out of here.
Now, we'll get to that chaotic confrontation with the evil gays in just a moment. But first, I have to rewind to when Mike was wrapping up the first season and was busy figuring out his next moves with HBO.
So my pitch to them was Jennifer's death. Like, Jennifer dying at the end of the season, I was like, we'll bring back Jennifer, and then I kind of pitched the whole, like, the gays are trying to murder me, like, storyline. And they really liked it, so it was kind of built into the second season. And at the time, when I told her she was gonna die, I was like, this is probably it.
Like, I really wasn't thinking beyond what we were doing there. I just thought it would be a great kind of two... But, you know, in the back of my mind, obviously, I like the concept of continuing to travel. I thought it was an elastic idea that could continue to maybe be fruitful or something to inspire me. So...
It was only really when the show was airing and all these people were interviewing Jennifer about it being over And her being kind of like, very... Yeah, there was a lot of pathos in some of those interviews, and I was like, this is sad.
I love working with Jennifer, and it was certainly not any desire to get rid... I loved that what we did with Tanya's character, it pains me to feel like I... I don't know, I blew that. But, you know, we will work together again, and who knows how this will all play out. You didn't blow anything. I don't mean to interject.
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Chapter 8: How does Jennifer Coolidge feel about the audience's reaction to Tanya?
Is this a fun conversation? Is this a difficult one?
Yeah, it is. The one thing I sort of feel like I haven't really told the truth about is, you know, I've been interviewed a lot about, are you sad that you're, you know, how do you feel about not being in White Lotus 3? And I sort of felt like I automatically said, you know, I'm devastated or whatever.
But I don't know if I'm that devastated because I do think it's really exciting if you've never done White Lotus to get a part in Mike's show. And I am really excited for, like, this next cast. I mean, it is...
You know, I'm sure there's some jealousy down in there, like, oh, I wanted to go, you know, I want to be part of that whole thing and go with that fun group of people and be in Thailand with that fun group of people. But, I mean, Mike White gave me such a generous gift and I got to be in two of his shows.
seasons in White Lotus so I have to say like I don't know if I'm really spending my time crying over spilt milk I'm looking at other jobs though that bring that sort of the Mike White satisfaction when you're like he gives you a lot to do and play and you can't help but have a good time on a job with him I mean he's tough too he's really tough and he's you know he knows what he wants
But he really likes actors and he is a really fun person to hang out with. And like I say, I have to say, I don't talk about my joy enough from the joy I got from those two years.
In your defense, I feel like so often at the tail end of that press cycle, it was you being relentlessly asked the same question about, are you sad about Tanya's death? Are you sad you're not going to be continuing on? So I felt like you were pigeonholed in terms of not being asked about the joy of being on these two seasons and celebrating that. It became very, well, are you sad not to be back?
Which sort of put you in a corner in terms of how you were able to look at it as a whole. Did you feel that way?
Yeah, I know. Well, that's very nice. Yeah, you're right. They do ask the same questions over and over. But sometimes your feelings change about them or you keep saying something and you're like, I don't know if I really feel that way today, you know. I don't know. There was a moment I sort of thought maybe I could have talked him out of it. But...
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