The School of Greatness
How To Let Go Of Toxic Love & Attract A Healthy Relationship
Fri, 21 Feb 2025
I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person!Get my new book Make Money Easy here!Four renowned experts unpack why we stay in toxic relationships and reveal the hidden psychological patterns that keep us stuck in cycles of emotional dependency. Bestselling author Elizabeth Gilbert shares her journey from love addiction to emotional sobriety, discovering how finding a higher power led to deeper self-acceptance. Psychologist Dr. Guy Winch reveals why early relationship patterns become like cement - moldable at first but quickly hardening into permanent dynamics. Relationship experts Matthew Hussey and Sadia Khan explore why we stay in unhealthy relationships, how fear drives us to lower our standards, and the critical importance of communicating deal-breakers before committing. Together, these four perspectives illuminate the path from toxic patterns to thriving relationships through self-awareness, boundaries, and emotional maturity.In this episode you will learn:Why self-care isn't just self-indulgence, but a "deeply humanitarian public service" that makes us safer for others to be aroundHow to identify and communicate deal-breakers early in relationships to prevent future conflictThe danger of entering relationships from a scarcity mindset and how it leads to compromising standardsWhy emotional wounds require the same careful attention and treatment as physical injuriesThe importance of developing emotional regulation and selecting partners who encourage healthy boundariesFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1736For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Liz Gilbert – greatness.lnk.to/1681SCGuy Winch – greatness.lnk.to/1683SCSadia Khan and Matthew Hussey – greatness.lnk.to/1659SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Chapter 1: What is Lewis Howes’ new book tour all about?
There are two big things happening at one time that I've never done before. I'm going on a book tour for my new book, Make Money Easy, and I'm doing a podcast tour at the same time. It is going to be big, and I'm going to seven cities in 10 days. Get your friends, get your family, bring everyone you know to these cities. I'm coming to Austin, Texas, New York, Boston, We're going to Nashville.
Then we're going to Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco. Make sure to get your tickets right now. Go to lewishouse.com slash tour. Again, bring everyone you know if you're looking to create more financial freedom and abundance in your life and you want to see a massive guest live on the School of Greatness show. Get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there.
Chapter 2: How does self-care influence relationships?
The greatest harm that I've ever done to other people was through me not knowing how to take care of myself. Because if I don't take care of myself a few things are going to happen. I'm going to lose my mind. I'm going to become super needy, super clingy and super manipulative. because I'm going to try to get my needs met through you.
And that means I'm going to be objectifying you and using you as a parental replacement, a sex toy, a sleeping pill, an unpaid therapist, whatever the need, this huge yawning need in me, parts of me will go out there and try to get that need met. So either I can figure out how to get that need met or like that teenager is going to figure out how to get that need met.
And all the amends that I've ever had to make to anybody in my life for the grave harm that I brought to them were because I didn't know how to take care of myself. And so I had harmed them.
blamed them, used them, manipulated them, you know, tried to force them to be something that they couldn't be, become infuriated and enraged when they couldn't do it, when they couldn't deliver, cheated on them because if they couldn't do it, I'm going to go find somebody else who can, you know, like all of it.
And so where self-care becomes not so much a sort of new age catch word, but a deeply humanitarian public service is Byron Katie said it so well, nobody is safe from me when I need them that much. Nobody is safe from me, right? So I actually want as somebody who genuinely loves humanity, I want to be somebody who people are safe around.
And if I'm not taking care of myself, I am an unsafe human being for anybody to be in any relationship with whether it's a momentary relationship or a romantic relationship.
Yeah. I mean, you've talked publicly about kind of your love life and your relationships and books and, you know, talks and everything. You said you were married and divorced twice. What did you learn after the first marriage into the second marriage?
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Chapter 3: What led Elizabeth Gilbert to 12-step recovery?
100%.
So I've spoken very openly about identifying as a sex and love addict. And I go to a room for that. I go to a 12-step program for that. It took me until I was 50 to find out that there was a room for that. And I spent decades and I mean untold thousands of dollars sitting in therapeutic situations. It wasn't like I wasn't trying to be different.
I was paying a lot of people to try to help me not be like the way I am. And no one ever said, You're a sex and love addict. Really? And there's a room for that. There's a 12-step room for that. And here's a phone number. Go get yourself some help. Because there's so much secrecy around it. Because I think especially for women there's a tremendous amount of shame.
But my acting out was nuts, Lewis. I mean, you mentioned that I was divorced twice, but I actually recently had lunch with my old couples therapist, who's a wonderful, brilliant couples therapist. And I said to him, Mark, did you ever have anyone else who was a patient of yours who brought three different people to see you over the years? And he was like, nope.
And I was like, and none of them were my husband. Like none of them were the people I was married to. That was like between my marriages that I was bringing, you know, and he was like, yeah, I don't think I have ever had anybody bring in three different relationships and say, please make this work for me. And he said, I have to hand it to you though, Liz. They were all so different, the people.
you were the same yeah he's like i i really admired the fact that like and i was like yeah because i was trying to find what is the formula who do i have to connect with that this is going to work that this great echoing god-sized hole within me this deep
unsolvable problem of never feeling like there's enough love is it you is it you is it you do i need someone older do i need someone younger do i need a man do i need a woman do i need someone who loves me more than i love them do i need someone who i love more than i do i need two people do i need an open marriage do any like i want to and i say this with all love
i'm so proud of myself that i spent 35 uninterrupted years trying to solve that like trying to solve that and being like why can't i make this work very similar to an alcoholic who's like well maybe if i just don't drink hard liquor maybe if i just have wine maybe if you just have beer maybe if i just drink on the weekends maybe if i you know it's like i'm trying to figure out how to have this thing not do what it always does which is blow up in my face and leave me like flat on the bathroom floor
floor wrecked.
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Chapter 4: How can we identify and overcome love addiction?
Yeah, these people are really sick and it's depressing and I feel bad for them and I'm going to be a spectator and then I'm going to leave. And then I went out and found another person to blow my life up with and then I was like, maybe I should go back.
From the group? No, no, no.
But just from the general population. And then I went back humbled. And the first time I really showed up in that room and said, Hi, my name is Lizzie. I'm a sex and love addict was the beginning of the end of a 50 year attempt to find somebody, anybody who would take that pain away. Oh my gosh.
And to have a whole bunch of people in the room who don't look like me, who aren't my age, who aren't from my background be like, yeah, we super get it. And to hear my story being told again and again and again through other people's mouths. I remember hearing this woman say, I took one look at that guy from across the bar and I was like, I would follow that man to hell and then I did.
And I was like, okay, I know that story. Like I've been in that story, I've been in that story, I've been on all the sides of these stories. And so to find a community of people who are like, we understand why you're like this. you know, and will be your family as you move through this.
What are the main symptoms of a sex addict or a love addict then?
There's different programs for sex addiction, there's different programs for love addiction, I identify as a sex and love addict. A lot of women don't want to use the word sex addict because it sounds gnarly and shameful and it is gnarly, super gnarly. Because you're sort of pimping yourself out to get to trade whatever you have to trade physically to try to get that love connection.
It's not pretty, but it's what I've done. It also means constantly objectifying yourself, objectifying other people. But if you just Google 12 characteristics of sex and love addicts, You know, when I heard those, I was like, oh, that's a 12 for 12. That's a hard identification with each and every one of these. Like I've done every single one of these things on the regular.
But it essentially comes down to this idea that somebody else is going to be able to fix this on the inside of me. And returning to unhealthy relationships again and again, abandoning your care by attaching to people who are unavailable, There's a whole list.
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Chapter 5: Why is it important to establish boundaries in relationships?
I can't have a God who's like, if you don't pray to me in this certain way, I'm not going to feel right. I need to have an abundant God, a generous God, a loving God who knows me. And who likes me. I wish I could remember who said this, but somebody said that the true feeling of being one with God is relaxing completely in the presence of somebody who you know is deeply fond of you.
And if people had been taught that in childhood, that that's what God presence feels like, relaxing completely in the presence of somebody who you know is very fond of you.
Yeah, not being afraid constantly. Oh, my God.
Instead of what James Joyce called the hangman God, you know, the judge, the executioner. You know, this is like, like, of course, I created you. I love you. You know, like I made you the way you are.
This is fascinating.
45.
I was trying to remember because I had to inventory it when I was... It's part of like the sex and love addict recovery.
That's good. So 40, 45 kind of intimate loving relationships or sexual relationships.
45 deeply intimate relationships, Lewis.
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Chapter 6: What role does a higher power play in overcoming addiction?
When do we make a decision that I'm going to choose to love this person? We don't make a decision.
We don't decide. Because if you decided, you could actually decide to fall in love. And there's so many people who would love to fall in love, maybe even with the person that they're actually with already, but struggle to do that. Or people who have fallen out of love would like to fall back in love. Or the person that's trying to woo them is perfect for them in every way.
Why can't I just love them? That would be great. I just don't. So, you know, we can't quite make ourselves fall in love. But you know what happens is that people fall in love. It's very psychological because it's with an incredible absence of information. It happens quite quickly. You don't know the person. You don't.
You have a few data points and you're connecting them to create a Mona Lisa with five data points. Out of a flawed human being. Potentially flawed. You have no even idea where. And, you know, you have the rose-colored glasses. Everything's cute. Those things that are going to become incredibly annoying later on are still cute to you.
And you just fill in the gaps with optimism, with hope, with, oh, they're probably like this. And so you really don't know the person you've fallen in love with most of the time. Because I say if you need to know the person, you have to wait until you have your first fight. If you don't know how they fight, you don't know how ugly it gets. You don't know how ugly they get.
And that can make a big difference. But that doesn't usually happen before you fall in love. It happens after. You don't know how they fight. You don't know how they travel. You know, maybe you love to travel and they are such an anxious mess in an airport that you really want to just, I am not with this person at all. You know, like you don't know that.
You don't know how they are with their parents, your parents, with the holidays, whether they are a mess, they're fun. There's so much you don't know.
What would you say are three or four things that individuals could do today to enter a relationship in the best way possible to give them a chance for happy, healthy, long-term love? How much time do we have?
But I'm going to start with this. I think the thing we get wrong most about relationships is that we are absolutely clueless about how critical the first steps are. Those first dates, those first months, what you are doing is you are creating an unspoken contract with that person about what our couplehood is.
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Chapter 7: How to set a solid foundation for a healthy relationship?
Mm-hmm.
It's amazing they're communicating that. That should be the best thing ever. Now, you like it or you don't like it, but it's not annoying that they're doing it. You should be doing the same. They're giving you the instruction manual on how to be with them. Pay attention.
No, I think it's really important. I think I probably over communicated more in the first year, probably out of... trauma from the past of like, okay, this is really who I am. And this is my truth. And I just want to make sure you're okay with this. Yeah.
She's lying on the couch, watching you, going, I heard you the first three times.
About 20 times. She's like, you were really traumatized in the past. I'm like, I just want to make sure you know who I am. All my flaws, all my past, where I'm at, where I'm going, this is what I want. You sure you're good. It's like kind of mile markers, right? You got to lay the cement. It's like every mile marker. Okay, you're still on the same path.
Make sure you're in alignment because it's not worth me being like... I'm invested. And then you want me to change who I am. So I think you got to be willing to accept the person and make sure you figure out all their behaviors or as much as you can within the first six to 12 months before you take the long road with them and say, all right, am I down for this journey?
If it's a little bumpy, am I cool with it? Or don't choose the person. If they have bad behavior over and over, you don't have to choose them. If they're not going to change, like you either accept it and that's it. But you had this on your, I think this is on your website as well, a quote from you that said, mental health is about diagnosable conditions like depression and anxiety.
Emotional health is about common experiences like loneliness, failure, and heartbreak, the non-diagnosable stuff. And you also mentioned that you grew up, another quote from you is you said, I grew up with my identical twin, which of course made me an expert in spotting favoritism.
So when I became a psychologist, it didn't take me long to recognize how much we favor our physical health over our emotional health. For example, if we get a cut on our arm, we can just tell by looking at it whether we need a badge, a stitch, or an ambulance. But when we sustain an emotional wound like rejection, failure, we have no idea how to gauge whether the wound is deep or
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