Jacques Vallée is a venture capitalist, technologist, and prominent figure in the field of unidentified aerial phenomena. His new book is Forbidden Science 6: Scattered Castles, The Journals of Jacques Vallee 2010-2019. www.jacquesvallee.net This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. Now this is taxes. Get an expert now at TurboTax.com This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who is Jacques Vallée and what is his background?
As you know, I've known him for a long time. Yeah, when did you meet him? What year? I knew him at SRI. Actually, I was at Stanford Research Institute before him in one of the very early internet research teams. When there was no Internet, it was called the ARPANET. It was a network of the Advanced Research Project Agency, and it was all computer experiment and so on.
Chapter 2: What was the early internet like at Stanford Research Institute?
We had engine number three on the Internet at SRI in California. Engine number three on the ARPANET. By the time I joined them, there were like 30 machines already. Wow. And it was exciting. And then, you know, Dr. Puthoff and Russell Tarr came in with a proposal to SRI to do parapsychology research at SRI. which had never been done.
74.
70.
Chapter 3: How did parapsychology research start at SRI?
So the ARPANET was around 74. Yeah. Wow. It was funny because I was in my office and the vice president of SRI came in, closed the door and said, Jacques, you've published some things that are controversial under your name. on UFOs, and you haven't lost your scientific reputation, which is why you're here working for us at SRI on the ARPANET.
You know, there's a proposal from Dr. Puthoff and Dr. Tark to do parapsychology research here. And we've never done that. And I said, well, you know, it's a very valid – I think it's a very valid area of research. We should – you know, we're the kind of institution that should do that. He said, well, let me draw something on your whiteboard. And he drew a scale.
And on one side, there was a little square. He said, this is the most we can expect in terms of funding for research in parapsychology. It's maybe at most a million a year. And here is what I manage in this division. He drew a huge cube. It said $150 million.
Should we jeopardize the research we do for Xerox and IBM and AT&T and Bank of America and so on just to do some research on psychic things? And I said, well, you know, the reason we get all this money from DOD and Bank of America and so on is that we do the research that they can't do themselves. We do the, you know, we go out and we take risk.
And I think we should take the same risk with Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ because this could be very big. There is a lot of literature on this already and we can bring the science into it and they can bring the science into it. And he said, well – There is a meeting of the board of directors of SRI in two days, and most of them are against it. What do I tell them?
And I said, well, I can write up the reasons why in science you have to take chances, and this is science. I mean, this isn't just engineering. And he said, well, give me a memo by tomorrow at 12. So I went home and I wrote a two-page memo which was confidential.
I don't think anybody has seen it for the board explaining why there was scientific evidence, you know, enough of it so that good research could be done. And, you know, obviously that may have helped in getting the approval for them to come in.
And then after the first year, you know, they were there because, you know, the money kept coming and the results, you know, good scientific results came in, came out of it. So when you say parapsychology, specifically what were you attempting to study?
So most of parapsychology, as the name indicates, has been studied by psychologists, people who have experiences and they relate their experiences and they have strange dreams, they have all that. And then that has been structured
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Chapter 4: What are the experiences and protocols of remote viewing?
And there are books now coming out and certainly I found some of those books in Tahiti about the history of that and the research that's been done into those people. But they were special people. They were gifted. That's not something that I could do.
Have you heard or listened to the telepathy tapes? The telepathy tapes. Are you aware of this? Vaguely. It's a podcast that's about nonverbal autistic kids that demonstrate psychic ability. They've got dozens of these cases on video where people in other rooms are looking at objects.
The child, completely locked off, can't see them at all, will say and write down what those objects are, colors, numbers in sequence, and very accurately. And so they believe that this is something that, well, many of these parents have talked about it in the past, but felt foolish, felt like it was something that they would be ridiculed about. And so they didn't want to talk about it openly.
But once they started gathering up information, they got more people to open up about this and they start documenting it. And they start coming up with ways to make sure that there couldn't be any possible way they could be communicating with each other. And it's just utterly fascinating because they're showing that there is something going on.
There's some way of transferring information back and forth, including some of these teachers have figured out a way to not just receive but also transmit the same way these children have. So people that aren't nonverbal and they aren't autistic, these people are able to do it as well. They've been able to create a bond with these children and communicate with them.
And there are companies in Silicon Valley that are heavily involved in advanced processing and advanced programming, specifically recruiting young men and women with that kind of talent. I have three grandsons that I love, and one of them is – It's not clear whether he's actually autistic in the current definition, but he certainly has some of those indications. Some sort of a gift.
Of thinking and getting information in ways that are very different from the ... Now, it may be that in evolution, The reason sort of, quote, lower animals can do it and we cannot is that we've developed other ways of getting information that are more reliable in the long run. So it may be just one of the dormant abilities that we have that most of us don't develop.
And we're not encouraged to grow it in school because it's disturbing for the rest of the class and so on.
And perhaps it's something that people had before language and language and then written language and then of course media sort of eroded those abilities.
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Chapter 5: How did remote viewing purportedly locate a Russian spacecraft?
The three-letter agencies, there were a number of them who were very interested because they knew that gift existed in pilots and a number of people. And so they were trying to figure out a way to utilize this for military applications? Mostly to look at developments in the Soviet Union at that point. But also lost spacecraft. They found lost spacecraft in the middle of a jungle in Africa.
Lost spacecraft? By parapsychology.
Whose spacecraft? Ours?
No, it was Russian. So they found it through remote viewing? Yes. Really? So Ingo was starting to go around the labs at SRI. He had never been in a scientific institution where it's full of computers and gadgets and measuring instruments and everything else. So he wanted to know. He saw that as the next domain where parapsychology could be applied in a strict scientific rational way.
So I was one of the people that he wanted to talk to. And I told him, do you know how a computer finds data? You have a computer, a machine full of chips. How does it deal with the real world? And he said, I have no idea. I mean, I've never looked inside a computer. And I said, well, there's three ways. As a programmer, I can declare a variable. I can say x is always going to be 3.14 of pi.
But in many cases, I can give you the address of the place where I've put the data, but it's going to be different. The address is going to be the same, but the data is going to change every time. But I can give you the address. It's 2314. 2314 is where I'm going to put the age of the patient. But it's going to be different with every patient. So that's direct addressing.
But I can also put in that location, I can put the address directly. of somewhere else, which I'm going to compute in my program, and that's indirect addressing. And then there's the rest of the world, which is too big to put inside the machine.
The machine has a memory, maybe very big, but it's still limited, so it's going to go get the information from some memory device somewhere else, maybe the World Bank.
or the Library of Congress, and there I cannot give you the address, but I can give you a sort of imaginary process by which you can derive the address when you get there and bring it into the memory of your computer and then work with it. And he said, you know, that's it. That's what I need. And then he came up with the idea of coordinate remote viewing out of that conversation I had with him.
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Chapter 6: What are some historical cases of UFO sightings?
And that, I think that's an amazing contribution from what Dr. Putoff and Targ and some of their subjects did.
Was there a specific way that you achieved a state of mind that made you more able to perceive these coordinates or perceive what signal you're getting from remote viewing?
I had a lot of admiration and love for Ingo, for what he was capable of doing and his art and his personality and so on. He was very much admired in the whole team. And here I think it was the structure also of the experiment. I trusted what he was trying to teach me I've always... So you were open to it. Yes. You trusted it, so you were open to it. I had both the admiration and the trust.
Did he ask you to put your mind in a specific place? Was there a way of counting yourself into... The idea is not to put my mind into it.
Just to let it... Just let it come. Because my mind is analytical. Right. Of course. And... I was always very good in math. You have to be if you're going to be an astronomer. So I can be very structured and so on. This is not structured. This is boom. And then you can begin to analyze it, but you have to analyze it keeping your rational mind away from it.
So you just have to let the information come to you somehow or another and not try to imagine the information or create the information or perceive it.
Not to project what it is.
Right, just let it happen to you. And so you had seen him do this, and you knew that this was a valid field of research, so you were just open to it, and you just sat down there and tried to let it happen to you. Did it happen any other time that resembled the Andes Peaks, where you have that overwhelming feeling of cold and falling?
Did you have that feeling with anything else?
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Chapter 7: What evidence exists for egg-shaped UFOs?
Yes, but it's also – It's not exactly the shape of a shield. Most shields are more oblong, but some of them are round. But the point is it's hovering in the sky protecting the land underneath.
Okay. I think some of the more compelling stuff is like the stuff in the ancient Hindu scripts, the V-manas and all these different flying crafts that people described. They've always been a thing that people have described.
And we've been able to trace it to actual – investigations or actual records because, of course, when people describe something like that, especially if there was some sort of being associated with it, it could be the devil, it could be that. So they had to see a priest and confess and they were in trouble.
If you reported that thing, most of the time you'd be in trouble because it couldn't be a normal thing. So today, they just fire you from wherever you work. Yeah, probably. Or maybe you're a kook. At least they don't burn you alive anymore.
Yeah, that's lucky. But people do have a fear, a legitimate fear of being ridiculed, and that could stop their ability to be promoted anywhere. within whatever organization they're in that you don't want to think, oh, there's kooky Bob over there who thinks the aliens are watching us.
The best cases I get are from executives in Silicon Valley whose family has seen something or who have seen something. And they've described, frankly, UFOs to me. And they cannot publish it.
So that looks way different. So that coin is much more compelling because that looks like something flying in the sky above the city. That doesn't look like a shield at all. And what is that peak at the bottom of it? It's also the same thing, whatever. Yeah, that's very different.
You can tell that those things have been in the culture, but they've sort of repressed in the culture. And the anthropologists don't want to look at that.
There's a really old painting, like a biblical painting of these people that look like they're flying around and like seated in these crafts. They're in the sky. I've never seen any sort of a conventional explanation. What is that artist depicting?
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Chapter 8: How do ancient art and artifacts relate to UFO phenomena?
You know, in Roswell, there were no witnesses. There were people who came later who found the stuff and they reconstructed the story and it's a very interesting story. But at Trinity, they saw it arrive and they saw it crash. And they were there for 10 days afterwards watching the recovery. And they went inside. One of them went inside. And his father went inside also.
So we have a very rich description of that. And where is it in the literature? Nowhere. I mean, Paola Harris found this, did research for four years on that, and then told me about it. And then we did another four years of research on it. together at the site. And we found a lot of correlations. But there are the Socorro case and the Valençal case.
Could you explain, tell me before we move on to those other cases, what correlations did you find?
Well, in all three cases, it's an egg-shaped object. In all three cases, there are traces that could be seen, could be described, could be analyzed. In all three cases, the beings are short. They are about three feet, three and a half feet. They breathe air. What kind of extraterrestrial is that that comes here and breathes the air? If we go to the moon, we're not going to breathe the air.
How do we know that it breathes at all? How do we know that these things breathe at all? They had no breathing equipment. How do we even know that they're biological? They had two eyes, a small nose, a small mouth. But couldn't they possibly be some sort of a creation? Instead of being a biological entity, couldn't they be some sort of artificial life?
So I've asked Gary Nolan about that. I'm not a biologist. And... I think it would be known if somebody had created a metahuman— I don't mean somebody. I mean another life form from somewhere else. There were stories of the Russians actually thinking about creating a dwarf you know, human to pilot their ships because they didn't expect to have the energy, you know, to have a big rocket.
It turned out they found that.
Oh, so they were trying to get tiny people to power their ships because they were lighter.
But the CIA was looking into rumors that the Russians in the 50s, you know, before Sputnik, that the Russians were trying to create a humanoid that could pilot a spaceship.
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