Jacques Vall e9e
Appearances
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It wouldn't tell you what the project does unless you're cleared for it, but it would tell you that there is a project. Those names of secret projects are picked by a computer. They are random. I thought this was funny. Scattered Castles is sort of like all these files about strange UFOs and strange creatures. Wow.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So I was one of the people that he wanted to talk to. And I told him, do you know how a computer finds data? You have a computer, a machine full of chips. How does it deal with the real world? And he said, I have no idea. I mean, I've never looked inside a computer. And I said, well, there's three ways. As a programmer, I can declare a variable. I can say x is always going to be 3.14 of pi.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But in many cases, I can give you the address of the place where I've put the data, but it's going to be different. The address is going to be the same, but the data is going to change every time. But I can give you the address. It's 2314. 2314 is where I'm going to put the age of the patient. But it's going to be different with every patient. So that's direct addressing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But I can also put in that location, I can put the address directly. of somewhere else, which I'm going to compute in my program, and that's indirect addressing. And then there's the rest of the world, which is too big to put inside the machine.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The machine has a memory, maybe very big, but it's still limited, so it's going to go get the information from some memory device somewhere else, maybe the World Bank.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
or the Library of Congress, and there I cannot give you the address, but I can give you a sort of imaginary process by which you can derive the address when you get there and bring it into the memory of your computer and then work with it. And he said, you know, that's it. That's what I need. And then he came up with the idea of coordinate remote viewing out of that conversation I had with him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So that was my contribution to the actual project at the beginning. And then he thought as an address, he was going to take coordinates, longitude and latitude, because we were going to look at – they were going to – I wasn't officially part of the – But I was, you know, I had passed the qualifications to be at SRI in a Department of Defense project. So I was one of the good guys.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So we had many conversations with Goffey and so on in the lab with Ingo and later with Uri Geller that were absolutely fascinating to me. So I tried to... In some cases, they needed to talk to someone who knew technology and was interested in this, even though I wasn't on the project itself, but somebody who was inside so that the information didn't
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
get out into the real world until they were ready to actually publish it because everybody wanted to kill their project. I mean, there were so many skeptics saying, you know, this can't work. They are making it up. They are fooled by a press digitator. You know, Uri Geller is a magician and all those things. Well, he is a magician, but he's also, you know, an extraordinary psychic.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So Ingo, after the project was pretty much over, there was some continuous studies. And Ingo brought me back to work with him. because he wanted to write a book that would be a synthesis of his methodology, you know, to answer your question of how would you do this. And he had a very structured way of doing that with a number of, what he wanted to do was train people to do that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
hopefully to his level. So it was step by step. So there was a first, you had a pad of paper, you know, and a pen. And he was sitting at the end. The table was about like this, you know, except there was nothing on it. in a room that had nothing on the walls, no windows. There was a chair here and a chair there. So he was away from me. I couldn't see what he was reading.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
He had a stack of targets. that were places on the Earth. And, I mean, obviously the idea was to look at what was going on in Vladivostok or in some.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It was just coordinates. So just numbers? He had gotten the maps, and those were test things from geographic features on the Earth, cities, mountains, and so on. So, he would read out the coordinates. And I had a pad of paper and a number two pencil. So, everything was very coded, you know, very strict. And I would draw something that he called an ideogram.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So, it could be like this, you know, it could be a curve, it could be... And then just first impression. His theory, which I think, you know, having experienced it, we did that for a year. Now, I had a job somewhere else, but I was coming two mornings a week, you know, to work with him. And this was classified.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You know, there's a proposal from Dr. Puthoff and Dr. Tark to do parapsychology research here. And we've never done that. And I said, well, you know, it's a very valid – I think it's a very valid area of research. We should – you know, we're the kind of institution that should do that. He said, well, let me draw something on your whiteboard. And he drew a scale.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So other people at SRI had no idea what was going on in that room that was dedicated to his work. He would read out, his idea was that we can all get that signal. There is a signal, if I give you a longitude and a latitude, you potentially can describe what's there. If it's a city, if it's a mountain, if it's some place in the country. The reason you cannot is that the signal is overwhelming.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The signal is extraordinarily large, much larger than we can hold it in our brains. So the people who do that have a way of processing the signal and recalling it. And that's the secret. That's the main thing to me that's come out of the SRI study among many things. So his idea was you have to stop the signal, you have to catch it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And it's going to be very, very fast and most people just go on with their life. It's just a passing thing. thing. But you can recall the signal. So he would read out the coordinates again. Now my little scribble is going to turn into maybe a series of waves and then a city with skyscrapers after if we do that a number of ways. Now there are a lot of of errors that can come in.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And then we can think we recognize it and try to name it. That's the thing you shouldn't do. You shouldn't try to name it because to name it, put it in the other half of the brain, which is logical and rational and, you know, So the idea is to label that as an error. It's not a city by the bay. It's something else. So we go on and we keep just going on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So you have to do that with a very patient guide to train yourself to do that. And SRI, Hal and Ingo did that very well in training a cadre of people who could be almost, not quite, but almost as good as Ingo. And there were a couple who were as good as he was. I said, but Ingo, I'm not psychic. He said, well, think about that because you've shown evidence of understanding the process.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There are some things that I did that would be classified as psychic. But I cannot do it, I cannot control it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, one time, I get there 8.30 in the morning. We close the door. And he gives me a set of coordinates, longitude and latitude somewhere. And I get very cold right away. And I get dizzy. You know, I mean, I have to grab the table. And I'm not drawing anything. And Ingo says, Jacques, what's wrong? And I said, Ingo, I don't know where you're sending me, but I'm cold. I'm trembling. I'm afraid.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I'm afraid of falling. And, you know, I really don't don't feel well. And he said, you are on top of a peak in the Andes. Whoa. So he pulls out the thing. He gives it to me that comes from a photograph of the Andes taken from an airplane with this peak. And they computed the coordinates of the peak, and that's what he was giving me. And I was there. You felt it physically.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Did you see it or did you just feel it? No, it was just a physiological reaction on my whole body. I was trembling. Exactly as if you were on a peak. I was freezing cold and I was very afraid of falling. Wow. I was falling.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And on one side, there was a little square. He said, this is the most we can expect in terms of funding for research in parapsychology. It's maybe at most a million a year. And here is what I manage in this division. He drew a huge cube. It said $150 million.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Oh, yeah, sure. You should not use me as a remote viewer to launch a tomahawk. Over somewhere. That's a problem that, of course, the army has. Is it good enough so we can launch a rocket to destroy that thing?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There are a couple and they are not. Ingo was known because he wrote about it and so on. Many of them, Joe McMoneagle is probably the best one alive today. He described a structure and he described a ship that was being built by the Russians which was a super submarine in a hangar somewhere. And the Navy just laughed at him. They said, that's crazy. It's in a hangar away from the sea.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So why would you build a ship when you don't have the ocean? Well, it turned out he was right. And it was a super class new Soviet submarine. It described the inside of the building, which had no windows and so on. From a satellite, they could see the building, but they couldn't see inside the building.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
He described what was inside the building, he described the submarine, he described the length, and he actually measured it psychically. And that turned out to be right. And then when the submarine was built, they brought some bulldozers and they dug a channel to the sea and off it went.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yeah, that happened and he was, as opposed to one of us, he was right enough of a time that you could rely on what he was describing. Also, they came up with a way of measuring, actually quantifying the value of your perception. So I told Ingo, you know, let's do another one because I'm on a roll here, you know, after this peak in the Andes. He said, no, Jacques, you know, you're going home now.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I said, it's 9 o'clock, you know, we've only been here half an hour. Why are you sending me home? I mean, this is great. I got it. He said, yeah, you got it. You don't need all the levels. I mean, you got to the top level. You were there. Yeah. Why did he want to send you home? He said, I want you to stay with that feeling. I don't want to do another one that you'd miss.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So I want you to keep that in mind because you got the whole thing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Should we jeopardize the research we do for Xerox and IBM and AT&T and Bank of America and so on just to do some research on psychic things? And I said, well, you know, the reason we get all this money from DOD and Bank of America and so on is that we do the research that they can't do themselves. We do the, you know, we go out and we take risk.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Keep the experience with me during the day because I got the whole signal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It would... Yes, I would lose that sense of direct access to something that bypasses the brain. Basically, I was trained in mathematics and physics and astronomy, so I use the part of my brain that's analytical, and I'm a good programmer, computer programmer and so on. This is very different.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
This is grabbing a signal which has everything in it and being able to catch it very fast and just get a little bit of information and then catch it again. recall it, you know, and that's what we were doing that, you know, five times, six times, 10 times, until making sure that you don't try to name it, you don't try to put, you know, a description on top of it. It's just stay with the signal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And that, I think that's an amazing contribution from what Dr. Putoff and Targ and some of their subjects did.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I had a lot of admiration and love for Ingo, for what he was capable of doing and his art and his personality and so on. He was very much admired in the whole team. And here I think it was the structure also of the experiment. I trusted what he was trying to teach me I've always... So you were open to it. Yes. You trusted it, so you were open to it. I had both the admiration and the trust.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Just to let it... Just let it come. Because my mind is analytical. Right. Of course. And... I was always very good in math. You have to be if you're going to be an astronomer. So I can be very structured and so on. This is not structured. This is boom. And then you can begin to analyze it, but you have to analyze it keeping your rational mind away from it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yes, I had some of that, but this one was, you know, just completely shocking because it was. And I think that's a characteristic of when you really get it. There is no question. And, you know, in the movie Patton. Yes. Patton is sent to North Africa because to fight Rommel.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Rommel is there with his tanks and the American army is going to – isn't ready to invade Europe but wants to start controlling the Germans in North Africa. He's sent there. He lands. There is a lieutenant there with a jeep that takes him to the place where there was a battle and the Americans were decimated. by Rommel, who was just a genius German general. Great with tanks, just like he was.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Patton considered him as his major enemy because both of them understood tanks. And so Patton gets in the Jeep. That's in the movie. It's just absolutely perfect. I've checked that this was historical, you know, exact in the movie. They drive to the site of the battle. And they get to, in the desert, in the Jeep. And they get to a fork in the road. And the driver takes to the left.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And I think we should take the same risk with Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ because this could be very big. There is a lot of literature on this already and we can bring the science into it and they can bring the science into it. And he said, well – There is a meeting of the board of directors of SRI in two days, and most of them are against it. What do I tell them?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And Patton said... son, why don't we go to the right? Because that's where the battle was. And the driver says, sir, you know, with all due respect, I was there in that battle. It's on the left. He said, trust me, go to the right. And they go to the right and they get to the edge of a plateau where you see a big plain.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And Patton says, this is where the battle was with Hannibal came from the left with his elephants. And the battle was there. And I had been there. I was there. Patton thought that he was reincarnated from a Roman general who had been at that battle against Hannibal and his elephants. And, you know, the poor driver... saying, how did this happen?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
As you know, I've known him for a long time. Yeah, when did you meet him? What year? I knew him at SRI. Actually, I was at Stanford Research Institute before him in one of the very early internet research teams. When there was no Internet, it was called the ARPANET. It was a network of the Advanced Research Project Agency, and it was all computer experiment and so on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
How did I get here with this general who thinks he's reincarnated, who fought against Hannibal? And I've worked with people, as you know, I've run a number of venture capital funds with people who had that kind of intuition. And you think, You think finance is driven by greed and so on, but at some level, greed doesn't really matter.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It's getting to the truth of something, especially in venture capital, where you're going to change the way things are done. With these gadgets, with computers, with rockets and so on, you're going to go to a new generation of things. So it hasn't been done before. And the financial people, you've got 10 engineers in front of you who can do it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There is one who will succeed, nine who's going to fail. And you have to pick the thinking that's going to succeed. I mean, it's not... It's not the money and it's not the technology. It's the mind of the driver who say, no, let's go to the right, let's not go to the left. Patton was extraordinary in that he was a remote viewer. He demonstrated that again and again.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There are some interesting books that I've collected from some of his lieutenants who
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Exactly. But you also have to be detached. I mean, you know, eventually he's going to go to the battlefield where the, you know, bodies of soldiers have been killed. They're burning tanks and everything else. They show that in the movie. I mean, that's where he's supposed to go. But, you know, his mind is at a different level.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Oh, you know, way back in antiquity. And they had seers that the king would go consult whether he should engage in a war. The Greeks had the Pythia, who was a woman who, they had an area, a volcanic area where there were fumes coming out of the earth that was supposed to be
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
one of the doors to the underworld and so on and there was a special cult around that place and the king would go there before a great decision and would ask the message from the underworld or the message from the from the mind of the woman who was interpreting what was coming from the earth. So that has been, you know, regarded as... You know, Hitler, Adolf Hitler was...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And in his – before the war, when he got to be the leader of Germany, he exhibited and he very much believed in those words. those powers. I think he got to the point where he trusted it too much. He started making mistakes and that could be used against him. You have to get the ego out of the way. Of course, that's the hardest thing for us to do.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And I said, well, I can write up the reasons why in science you have to take chances, and this is science. I mean, this isn't just engineering. And he said, well, give me a memo by tomorrow at 12. So I went home and I wrote a two-page memo which was confidential.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
In science, I mean the burden is on you as a scientist to come up with an experiment that will discriminate between the random things and will give you guides to – Well, I think that's what they've done with the telepathy tapes and I'm hoping the success of this and then they're going to do a whole series on it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, fortunately, certainly in California, there are people who can take risk and put a few million dollars behind something. Shout out to Stanford.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And, you know, as you know, I come from France, and in France, it's very, very hard to do that, you know, because the system is very structured and very conventional and so on. Even though France has had some of the brightest people in that kind of research.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You know, sort of everything has to be rational. Yeah. America's a little more chaotic. And they also – as you know, France has had for a long time – has had a project on UFOs, an official project. And that takes reports from the public and they investigate them and research. It's a very small team, but they have access to all the resources of French research.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I don't think anybody has seen it for the board explaining why there was scientific evidence, you know, enough of it so that good research could be done. And, you know, obviously that may have helped in getting the approval for them to come in.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So they can get the weather people, they can get the Air Force, they can get the radar people, they can get all of that. So they can tap into the resources of a lot of different departments of the government. So it's very powerful. So they will explain, they find a rational explanation for about 95% of all the reports, which is true. I agree with that. I've been there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It's not hoaxes. Those are people who really think that they've seen something unusual. But what was unusual to them may have been the moon rising through the fog and it looks like an elongated disk. And then after a while, things change and so on. Ball lightning. Yeah. Yeah, there's a few things. They really think they've seen a flying saucer coming over.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There are about 200 or 250 possible physical things that really could surprise you, that are unusual things. that would create conditions under which a normal person would think that they are in the presence of a UFO. Then, you know, what's interesting is the other 5%. The other 5% is in your face. I have reports of something that moved like the Tic Tac from the French Air Force in the 50s.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There was a French jet over Morocco that was flying and there was a radar tracking the jet and I had the reports from the French Air Force with the chart. And that the thing he was chasing went up, you know, in a fraction of a second, went to the top of the atmosphere, you know, just like the Nimitz case. So those things are not new.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean, they are in the files if you take the trouble to look at the files.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Absolutely. Well, especially in the 50s. Right. Well, the Kenneth Arnold case. He didn't have anything that had gone into space.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And then after the first year, you know, they were there because, you know, the money kept coming and the results, you know, good scientific results came in, came out of it. So when you say parapsychology, specifically what were you attempting to study?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I brought you this. It's a token. It's not a coin. It's a token from Burgundy in France from the – A few centuries ago, the Duke of Burgundy was under attack. There was a lot of turmoil in French politics and the king was fighting the noble, the great nobility and so on was in cahoots to get rid of the king and so on. And they were going to be attacked and he needed money to raise an army.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And he appealed to people in Burgundy to send him money. And this was a token that they would – the king, the duke would give people who had given him money to raise this army. And on the face of it is this disk. That's holding up – that's protecting the land from forces above. There are all these arrows raining down on the land and the land is protected by this flying disk.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So it doesn't mean that they had seen a flying saucer at that time. But the idea has always been there of, you know, disk-like objects that were not meteors, that were not, you know, all the natural explanation, that were real disks. You find that in legends. You find that in, you know, in history.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yep. Yes. Wow. And you see, it's protecting the land and it's hovering in the sky, protecting it from all the thunder clouds above. Well, you know, there were a few of those things in history. And, you know, as you know, I've collected those with a group of... Couldn't that be interpreted as a shield? Well, it is shown as a shield that's going to stop all those arrows.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So most of parapsychology, as the name indicates, has been studied by psychologists, people who have experiences and they relate their experiences and they have strange dreams, they have all that. And then that has been structured
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yes, but it's also – It's not exactly the shape of a shield. Most shields are more oblong, but some of them are round. But the point is it's hovering in the sky protecting the land underneath.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And we've been able to trace it to actual – investigations or actual records because, of course, when people describe something like that, especially if there was some sort of being associated with it, it could be the devil, it could be that. So they had to see a priest and confess and they were in trouble.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
If you reported that thing, most of the time you'd be in trouble because it couldn't be a normal thing. So today, they just fire you from wherever you work. Yeah, probably. Or maybe you're a kook. At least they don't burn you alive anymore.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The best cases I get are from executives in Silicon Valley whose family has seen something or who have seen something. And they've described, frankly, UFOs to me. And they cannot publish it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You can tell that those things have been in the culture, but they've sort of repressed in the culture. And the anthropologists don't want to look at that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So usually the explanation when you read what the historians have said, it's supposed to be, you know, some god or some higher level entity that's coming to protect people and so on. But when you look at the detail, I mean, it really looks like a machine. It really looks mechanical.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
by people doing experiments, for example, trying to move objects with your mind, trying to, of course, send messages psychically to other people, or guessing what's written in a closed envelope and so on, that kind of thing. But again, those were done by good experimentalists, but it wasn't, where is the physics of it? I mean, because in physics, those things are not supposed to happen.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It's an envoy from God or an angel who's been sent. But the problem with those is that the painting, you know, it may relate to something that was written in the 3rd century. The painting is a 16th century painting. Right, right, right. So we didn't look at that that much. I mean, it's interesting from a – like the one with the virgin with the –
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So it may be that the artist was witness to something and he wanted to memorialize it and he put it in his painting, but it's not tied to the time of the Virgin. Right, right, right. They just added it in there. What is that supposed to be in the background? We stayed away from that. We wanted to go to... records of somebody having actually testified that he saw something or she saw something.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Like, what the hell? And there is a communication with the man. Who's looking up at it. He's looking at it, and there is a sense that he's actually seeing it and having a sense of what it is. It's like an Easter egg someone put into the painting. So this may be that the artist sort of put that in as a side. Of course, the main theme is the Virgin and the Child.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And the most interesting to me come from the Sahara. I have friends who are anthropologists who worked with the UN in Africa and so on in part of the Sahara. And One theory they have is that the culture that eventually moved to Egypt came from the Sahara. So I say, well, the Sahara is just sand. Well, it's just sand today. But we know that at one time it was flourishing. There were forests.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There was water. In fact, there is water, but it's underground water. It's a large amount of underground water. There was a sea there at one time. So there probably was an earlier civilization and some of those come from the Tassili. The Tassili is a region in the Sahara where there are a lot of those representations.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So there were a lot of people living there at one time and they painted that on the rocks.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And, well, I think archaeologists wouldn't disagree with that, I think, they would say. But the problem is that we don't correlate it. I mean, they didn't write anything. It's open to interpretation. We don't have a good correlation, so we have to keep looking for that. But that's fascinating.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But in our book we made the rule that number one, we don't want isolated human figures even with suits and so on. We really want a device, a flying device. Otherwise you could fill 40 books with images of strange creatures. I mean, what are the things that people see around the ranch now? Skinwalker? In Utah and in Arizona and in all of that. have to be careful on the boundaries of those things.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But we wanted to get to a place where there was testimony about somebody seeing a flying disc that was strange to them in their culture. And remember, in those cultures, those were agricultural cultures. So with people who were used to interpreting the weather, looking at the phases of the moon, looking at the rising time of the sun and all that was important for their agriculture.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So they knew their environment very well, better than we do as people living in in cities. So we can take that to some extent that has a scientific value, especially when you can build a model of a number of those across different centuries. But in that book, we were careful to break the book into sections corresponding to different evolution of the culture
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Without an understanding of a sense that perhaps we're not quite aware of. That's right. Our physics has been dealing with objects and with atoms and all that. But it's clear in modern physics that there are other things and that the theories we have about the different fields in the universe are in conflict with each other. Relativity and quantum mechanics are in conflict.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
explaining first a couple of pages what was happening during that time in terms of new inventions like when the telescope was invented, when certain things were discovered and so on. So we were careful to put it in context with every reinterpreting the description by the witness in the context that was appropriate.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Also now we think that the government has the answer, so people spend their time – You know, writing to different agencies and listening to reports from pilots, which is fine, of course, and people in the military, people in the intelligence community. But those are very valuable because now they have instruments, you know, to... actually measure what they see on an F-18 and so on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And they are covered by radar and by AWACS and everything else. So we can rely on that. So scientists and many people like the numerical aspect of it. I don't do that. I mean, I don't pretend to have access to that. I mean, we had access under Bigelow and under Bass to some of that. including some of the classified things that had happened.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But there is a much richer pool of data, which is, a friend tells me about a sighting in the country somewhere. I can go there, I can go see the people, and I can find out exactly what happened. And I continue to do that, and that's most of my data. And it's ten times bigger than the stuff they talk about from the Pentagon. I mean it's real data.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I don't need to have a clearance to go see the people and sit down. If I'm lucky, they'll invite me for lunch and I can talk to the kids. I can talk to the wife. I can talk to the people who took care of the cattle and they'll tell me. And That's where most of my information is really coming from. And it's not, you know, it's just very much in your face. And it's consistent.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
How consistent are the shapes of the crafts? It's a tough question. Many of the descriptions have to do with disks. And eggs as well, right? Of different sizes. Some of them are very large. A number of descriptions have to do with, for a long time, with
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
cigar-shaped objects, cylindrical, rounded at the end, sometimes with what people describe as windows that may just be openings with light in the side of it. It doesn't have to be what we think of as a window.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And then you have some irregular shapes, you know, just balls of light that physicists interpret as maybe plasma, but plasma doesn't survive in the air, you know, shouldn't survive in the air more than a minute maybe, but people have, you know, seen some of those things for minutes and long enough to take pictures of it and so on. And it's not necessarily glowing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It's not necessarily luminous the way plasma would be. So we don't know what they are. And they've been reported all over the world. Again, there are paintings of that kind of thing from the 18th century or the 17th century. So that I've collected and published. So we have these different categories.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I think there is a beautiful painting of hills and three blue spheres that are not moving, that seem to be suspended in the air, very distinct blue spheres that were seen and somebody recorded it and somebody did a painting of the scene. Those are things that people wanted to remember because they knew it was. And what year was this painting from? I don't remember the year. I couldn't tell you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I wrote a book with Paula Harris called Trinity about an egg-shaped object that happened in 1945. near White Sands. And now we have reinvestigated it. The first book was criticized appropriately by someone who said, I hadn't gone to enough of the written records. Well, now we have done that. So we've republished the book. It's called Trinity. And it covers three cases.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
In all three cases, the object is egg-shaped, the size of a medium-sized truck. It would fit in this room. It would be about the size of this room. Then there is a case in Socorro, and there is a case in Valençol. So Corot and Valençal – and people have concentrated on the first one, you know, the one that – because it's two years before Roswell. And there were witnesses there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You know, in Roswell, there were no witnesses. There were people who came later who found the stuff and they reconstructed the story and it's a very interesting story. But at Trinity, they saw it arrive and they saw it crash. And they were there for 10 days afterwards watching the recovery. And they went inside. One of them went inside. And his father went inside also.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So we have a very rich description of that. And where is it in the literature? Nowhere. I mean, Paola Harris found this, did research for four years on that, and then told me about it. And then we did another four years of research on it. together at the site. And we found a lot of correlations. But there are the Socorro case and the Valençal case.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, in all three cases, it's an egg-shaped object. In all three cases, there are traces that could be seen, could be described, could be analyzed. In all three cases, the beings are short. They are about three feet, three and a half feet. They breathe air. What kind of extraterrestrial is that that comes here and breathes the air? If we go to the moon, we're not going to breathe the air.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So I've asked Gary Nolan about that. I'm not a biologist. And... I think it would be known if somebody had created a metahuman— I don't mean somebody. I mean another life form from somewhere else. There were stories of the Russians actually thinking about creating a dwarf you know, human to pilot their ships because they didn't expect to have the energy, you know, to have a big rocket.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
That's a question for a biologist or specialist of the brain, although it may not be in the brain itself. It may be diffused in the organism. So I'm not really qualified.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But the CIA was looking into rumors that the Russians in the 50s, you know, before Sputnik, that the Russians were trying to create a humanoid that could pilot a spaceship.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There was no, to my knowledge, there hasn't been any correlation of that and the creatures that are described in Socorro in New Mexico and in Valençal in France, so those are three cases that I've been very involved in from the beginning, from day one. involve creatures that are about three feet tall, that breathe our air, recognize our signals, communicate with us in funny ways, even mentally.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean, the witnesses describe getting images in their minds and so on, in all three cases. What's interesting is people can argue about Trinity all they want, like they argue about Roswell, but the case in Socorro and the case in France, in Valençal, were investigated by governments. not by the local UFO group, although the local UFO group did a good job in all those cases.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But they were, in Socorro it was first the local police, local policemen saw the craft and the beings and described what happened. He was terrified when the thing took off. He thought it was something to do with some new gadget or some work in the desert. It's an area that's still in the same state today. I've gone back there with Dr. Hynek's son, with Paul Hynek a few months ago.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I've gone several times there. And so after the police, turned out the FBI was in town on another case. They had no jurisdiction in New Mexico for that particular case. It wasn't a federal case. But they helped preserve the traces the FBI way. And the local police was happy to have them there. And then there was the state police came in.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
and did an investigation and then people from the base came in with experts in explosives, experts in recovery of weapons and rockets and so on because they felt it might be something that had come from
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
from the Trinity range that was out of its way and had crashed near Socorro, in which case they might have responsibility, including financial responsibility if something was destroyed or whatever. So this was very serious. I have the whole file. Okay, it's a big file. Nobody's looking at it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean, the investigation in Washington now, they are saying, we're going to look at the cases of the last 12 months. Well, what kind of science is that? Can you imagine scientists reading this? And this is the way they are going to solve the UFO problem by looking at vague pictures of lights in the sky for one year? You know, why don't they go back to those records? Those are fatal records.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The case in Valençal, five agencies of the French government. So this guy was a farmer. He had a field where he was growing plants to make perfume. So this was high-level, expensive crop. This wasn't just, you know, alfalfa or something.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And he goes there at five o'clock in the morning because, you know, he wants to do some, to water the thing and so on before the sun is up because it's going to be very, in the south of France, it's going to be very hot. You can't work in the field during the early afternoon. So he wants to be done with that. He sees this contraption, you know, in the middle of the field crushing the
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
you know, the plants. And so he sneaks in and he's paralyzed. Now, there is an egg-shaped object just like the one at Trinity, just like the one in Socorro. It's the size of a mid-sized truck. There are two creatures in front of it, a human, you know, a human looking, two eyes, breathing air. They look at him, sort of amused, and one of them has something on his belt.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
He takes out, points it at him, and that's when he's paralyzed. Now, he's not, as you know, I'm not a doctor, but I've gone to doctors about what kind of paralysis is that where you can stand up and watch something, you just can't move. They said, well, there is a type of paralysis that will just inhibit the motor nerves, but you'll still be up and aware. You're not going to fall down in a heap.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And from there, he sees them going back inside the thing. The thing takes off. It takes off like a shot out of a gun and it vanishes in midair. Now, he goes to see the gendarmes. This man is fairly wealthy. He owns quite a bit of, you know, several fields, expensive crops. His wife is the mayor of the town.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The gendarmes are going to be very careful with him because he's also from the resistance in World War II. When he was young, he joined the resistance and the resistance in that part of France fought in the Alps against the Germans and they were regarded as heroes of World War II. And so the gendarmes are very careful with him.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There are some things he's not going to tell the gendarmes because he thinks – and I went there. He didn't want to talk to anybody from Paris. He didn't want to be on TV. He wanted to concentrate on his experience because he thought there was going to be something else. And he was aware of some of his buddies. Now, this is a part of France where people talk, but they have secrets, too.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean, historically, you know, there are things like that in the U.S., you know, parts where people are not going to talk to strangers. The only reason I could go there was that I went there with a lady who was from Paris, was with the government. She was with the Gauls government. She had the rank of ambassador, and she had a vacation home there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So we went there for three days, and she knew everybody there. And he told us what he thought might happen again. And so he didn't want the gendarmes mixed in with what he was doing. Why did he think that something was going to happen again? And he swore us to secrecy about what it was, but evidently there was communication with the beings when he was there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
They are just like the ones at Trinity and like the ones at Socorro. So, in that book, you have actually two, two, and three, you have seven creatures that are humanoid, that breathe our air, that seem to understand us, you know, the visual You know, there is visual contact. Well, we can have visual contact with animals. I mean, that doesn't mean they are human or metahuman.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But there is messages that come through all of that that the witnesses are reluctant to talk about in all three cases. So in Socorro, finally, the Air Force went there. They threw the Air Force out because the Air Force said, well, you know, that's just a gadget, you know, from the base. And, you know, that was stupid. So they finally sent Dr. Hynek there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Dr. Hynek asked me to organize the files that were coming. I was at Northwestern at the time, working. I had done my PhD already, and I was on the staff of the computing center, and we had a small team trying to help, free, trying to help Hynek keep the files together. So we were in communication with him the whole time. And then I put the files together and I have a file.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
We had engine number three on the Internet at SRI in California. Engine number three on the ARPANET. By the time I joined them, there were like 30 machines already. Wow. And it was exciting. And then, you know, Dr. Puthoff and Russell Tarr came in with a proposal to SRI to do parapsychology research at SRI. which had never been done.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But did they talk about it at all? It was very personal.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yeah. There had been a communication that transcended their life. there was something else, something outside. So you could almost call it sort of a religious feeling, but it wasn't about divinity or God specifically, but it was about the other side of life, a bigger, meaningful life. That's their interpretation. It may not be. There may be other things that they are trying to communicate.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
In all three cases, there are traces that were measured. There is technology of sorts. In the case of Socorro, people came up with all kinds of ideas that maybe it was a balloon. a special balloon, right? There were only 12 of them in the world and so on. Well, in the book, people haven't noticed it, but in the book, I was able to solve that problem because I found a transcript of a conversation
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
with a man who was head of a motor pool on the army range at White Sands. And he had given his team some instructions on how to make sure that the motor pool was working really well because White Sands is so big, when people went home, They could get lost, you know, at White Sands. And then how are you going to find them? I mean, there are tracks, but there is no paved road at the time.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
How are you going to, you know, find them so you can launch a helicopter the next day looking for, you know, a lost car somewhere with a family in it? So he made rules that they had to call periodically to report where they were when they went home, you know, 50 miles away across the desert. So they could find them if there was something wrong with the car. He's driving home with his family.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
This is after the Socorro thing is done. You know, they are all interrogating the... Lonnie Zamora, the cop who was driving that thing. And he sees a light over the mountains in the southwest towards Mexico. But it's still in New Mexico, but it's in that direction. A light that's not a star. It's really bright. And the light gets brighter and brighter. And his car dies.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Now he's head of a motor pool for the base. Everybody reports to him and they have all the army cars and trucks and everything else. They have tracks. So he looks at that thing. He tries to call his team. The radio doesn't work. The radio should work, the radio doesn't work. And the thing gets very bright and then it recedes, it goes away the way it apparently came in.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
We don't know if it came in or if it just got bright. Okay, the car starts. He goes home and then the next day he goes to his shop. He gets his staff together. He says, you guys are going to take this car apart. I want to see every screw and every piece of it and every level and everything and the seats and so on. I want to see all of that on the floor.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And you're going to test it and you're going to tell me what's changed or if anything, how that car stopped in the middle of the desert. And they couldn't find anything. And that report was an official report, okay, that was never published. And it nails the whole thing, you know, that this was not a balloon. This was not an hallucination.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The patrolman wasn't drunk like they accused him of or making up a story and so on. Lonnie Zamora, when Dr. Hynek interrogated him, he said he wanted to talk to a priest and confess to a priest before he would talk to Dr. Hynek. That's the kind of man he was. And they essentially destroyed this guy because they thought it was, you know, bad reputation for the town of Socorro.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The tourists wouldn't come there because they'd be afraid of... strange things flying. And the Air Force said, well, it's a one witness case. There's this patrolman who saw this. There were 12 witnesses. There was a guy who was driving on the main road, the same road where the patrolman had been driving, who the thing passed right over his car.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
He thought he was going to be driven off the road by this big oval thing that just went right over the roof of the car into the desert. Well, he called the police and reported it. There's a written report. He signed it. We know his name. They were... Without him having any knowledge of what happened. That's right. I mean, he saw this... Independently.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You know, if you look at the history of the islands in the Pacific, like I spent some time in Tahiti, and I looked at their traditions, they were navigating the Pacific fine. They knew where they were going. Now, part of that was navigating with the moon, but part of it was something else. And on every ship...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
One of your gadgets tried to drive me off the road. There were several people on the road on the other side of this little desert thing that when it rains, the water rains all over the place. washes everything out, just sand and rocks. But on the other side, there is a main road. Several people on the road saw the thing take off and reported it because it was just so strange.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So the Air Force put that aside. They neglected to, you know, this was... And they just kept saying it was a one witness case. It wasn't. Most of those cases where they say it was one witness and you have to look for the other guys. And again, you know. I brought you something. Can I tell you about it? Sure. What did you bring?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So this is something that the case was so interesting that Dr. Nolan and I and a couple of friends wrote it up and published it in the prime astronautics review in the world. So after it took a couple of years for them to agree to look at it and so on to look at the analysis. This happened in a suburb of Omaha, Nebraska, but on the Iowa side. There is this town. suburb with a park.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
This is about a week before Christmas in 1977. People are there having a good time in the park in the evening. It's getting dark. And I want to make sure I'm... they see something in the sky that looks like one of those boxes there. It looks like a round box with lights around it, and the lights are going around, and it's pretty high, and it's flying over the town.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And then a mass of steel, liquid steel, falls in the park. It falls on the levee in the park. There is about half a ton of it, liquid, glowing. It has nothing, no business being there. So you have this mass of metal, obviously they call the- So it's glowing, you say it's molten? Yes, the weather is freezing. We know the temperature and everything else. It's freezing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The grass is on fire around it. They call the firemen. The firemen call the police. The police gets there, and the firemen get there. They stop the fire. The fire would have died by itself. There's no problem there. They take pictures of the thing glowing. I have the pictures, infrared photos. Polaroid pictures of the thing glowing in the grass, burning.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
they had one man who was gifted in guiding with respect, of course, guiding with respect to what the ocean looked like and to the moon and so on. But also, that's never really been explained. They had an uncanny ability to get to the right islands on the way to their destination and to guide those ships. Otherwise they would have been, they didn't have compasses.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean liquid and it's going to stay liquid for a couple of hours and it cools down gradually and then people take pieces of it as souvenirs. So I have the pieces of it and there they are. Now there was analysis done by two labs. Obviously the question is where did that come from? There is chromium, titanium, and iron, which you can find in ordinary steel.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The composition isn't exactly what you'd expect industrial steel to be. One of the chemical analysis is done at the lab for industrial steel. The investigators call the company. The company says, yes, we make steel. So we have furnaces, but we empty the furnaces. This is over a weekend. The factory is closed. There would be nobody there and certainly no liquid steel in our factory on that day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
This is a half a ton that they found sitting there. So then they called the Strategic Air Command because B-52s fly over that town. B-52 is a big thing. And the people saw something in the sky. So, you know, maybe it was... The Air Force, you know, politely laughs at them and says, you know, we carry atom bombs, but we don't carry furnaces with molten steel. Okay, so go look somewhere else.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And they say, good luck. By the way, this is a way you could test it. This is a way. I mean, the Air Force, we think... People think, number one, there is nothing in the Blue Book files worth looking at. That's not true. I spent four years. Dr. Hynek had copies of all the files. The files were not classified.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There were a few random cases that were classified for other reasons, not because of the UFO, because of where it was or whatever, that I didn't have access to. I was just a graduate student, a Ph.D., Dr. Hynek and I convinced the Air Force to do a computer file of everything they had about UFOs, because before then it was just paper files all over the place.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And if they were challenged by Carl Sagan or somebody like that at the time, they wouldn't be able to provide good statistics. So, they agreed for me to get the files and redo, punch them into punch cards, take it to a computer, redo the statistics, looking at their explanation and then my explanation for the cases. I did the whole thing, thousands and thousands of cases.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
They were right that majority were explainable. What we were looking for were the ones that were not explainable, this one cannot be explained. And there are enough of those, there are hundreds of those that scientists could have looked at. I went through the Air Force base with my French passport. At the time, I wasn't a citizen.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You had to wait five years before you could apply for American citizenship. So I was working. I had a small contract that was completely unclassified to recalibrate the statistics of the Blue Book files. So I had access to essentially all the Blue Book files.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But I went into the base with a clearance for three days with Dr. Hynek to go to the division that was looking at the UFOs and spend those three days with Major Quintanilla and his staff going for the files. And they had lots of remains of things and stones and strange metals and so on, which at the end of the project, all that was thrown away. So this is – everything is going on now.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
This is for you, by the way. Oh, thank you. This is for your special collection of weird things.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It's not exactly the steel that you would use in construction, but it is essentially steel. So I gave my samples to Stanford so that we could redo the analysis, not the chemical analysis, but the isotope analysis. So Dr. Nolan and I took it to the lab. Dr. Nolan had two series of instruments that could do the analysis. We did both. and we confirmed essentially this.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And there are books now coming out and certainly I found some of those books in Tahiti about the history of that and the research that's been done into those people. But they were special people. They were gifted. That's not something that I could do.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So there was no special change in the isotope ratios. If there was, that would indicate that somebody had manipulated the isotopes which is not a hoax, then you know for sure it's not a hoax because that's high caliber scientific laboratory work and you need special instrument experts to interpret it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So I gave him essentially all my samples, all the ones that I could relate to reliable cases, because I don't want to give him junk. There's a lot of junk floating around that people think is strange and... So, yes, we're going through all those. And the idea is to publish it as we go, to publish everything as we go.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There are some that give the indication of being, but, you know, as always in science, we have to be careful. Our colleagues will say, very good, you know, congratulations, you did that with one instrument. Now you should redo it with a different lab, with a different machine, and see what they find. Because Dr. Nolan has said,
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Some of those machines are machines that he's invented at Stanford, okay? But they are tied to biology. I mean, this is not biology. This is steel, okay? And this is iron or copper or whatever. So we have to redo it with a different – so in this case, we have redone it with a different line of machines.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There is a French machine that costs something like $6 million that would fill half of this room. that's extremely good for testing for isotopes, but only on four different elements. With the other machine, the biological machine, we get the whole spectrum, except for some of the extreme elements like radioactive elements and so on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
We're still working on that. But this paper is important, even though we didn't find something out of range, but that's, in a way, that's validation of what you have to do when somebody presents you with that kind of sample. Those are the steps. This is where the science is today. This is what the technology can tell you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So this is sort of a stake in the ground, even though we didn't find ET, okay? But we didn't find ET science. We found physical evidence of something. But we've got the technology now. We know how to do it. One problem we had was that neither one of us is – You know, an expert in materials. We're not experts in steel. So the people who – this was reviewed by people who were materials experts.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And they came back with a whole page of questions. Why didn't you look at this? Why didn't you measure that? So Dr. Nolan and the team had to redo about a year of work before they would accept the paper. So that's what you have to go through before scientists will look at it. But this one is in the literature, in the scientific literature. It's not in some UFO magazine in New Mexico.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And now we have the methodology, we can apply it to the others. There are some that we've done with one machine where there are indications. Now, at Stanford, Stanford, it's funny because you've had three generations of people at Stanford looking at this. Before Dr. Nolan, I was there and I was gathering data and I was using the computer to do statistics and so on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And I worked for Professor Sturrock, who unfortunately died a few months ago at over 100 years. but he was still working in astrophysics and I was on his astrophysics staff for a couple of years looking at galaxies, looking at the structure of the sun and looking at certain types of strange stars that had special emissions and so on. So I was his computer guy and we also looked at
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
UFO materials, especially a case from Brazil which he published and he got financial support to do the isotope analysis and some of it was arguably different, so we want to redo it. He donated all his materials to me when he retired, so I have all that and I passed it to Dr. Nolan. So Stanford now is acquiring a reputation as being a UFO analysis place. Yeah, for sure.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But it went from essentially solar physics and very high energy physics that I was working on with Dr. Sturock To me, we're the computing center now with Dr. Nolan in the medical school. So we've had, you know, they are in trouble.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, I've seen those books. I've heard those things on the Internet. The question is, you know, scientists will want to look at this. They want to know, well, how did you do it? How did you prepare the sample? We were given access to a sample that in fact is very strange, and it has different colors on it. It fits in the palm of your hand, so it's a significant size.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Remember, Dr. Nolan is looking at individual human cells, you know, with his device, okay? So, you know, anything more than 10 grams, you know, we don't need. I mean, we can work with very little material. Although, of course, we want to do different things with different parts of it. But this thing had some very interesting incrustation of a red deposit.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And all the people who had looked at it, including some official labs and some signed a disclaimer saying they would not scrape off the interesting deposits that were on it. Well, all of them did. I mean, after signing the thing. By the time it came to me, most of the interesting red stuff had been scraped off. So I don't know what they did. And I don't know what machine they used.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And they didn't publish a paper. It took us four years to publish this paper. The paper came from Stanford with four PhDs writing it. So the bar is pretty high if you're going to actually publish this in an international review.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So in the BASS project of Mr. Bigelow that was funded by the Defense Intelligence Agency, we had a template of things that they, the Pentagon, wanted to have. It said trajectory, composition, luminosity, radiation, and so on. Yeah, those are the things that you'd need if you were looking at a Russian aircraft, or you were looking at the Nimitz thing, whatever it was. But is that really relevant?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean, in science, you don't start from the conclusions. You're going to look at this, this is not something you've seen before, and you go on from there. In the Nimitz case, We've all seen those photographs and they are, I've stopped counting how many papers there are from the New York Times on down with the picture of the photograph that the F-18 was taking, the pilot took from the thing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, nobody mentions that this isn't a photograph. People think it's a photograph. So in the file, there is a memo from the folks at Raytheon. Raytheon makes the device, which is a big thing that you hang under the wing of an F-18 that's going to take these images. It's an image. It's not a photograph, it's looking into the infrared.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It's not looking at the details, you know, if there is a number painted on the thing, it's only to see it. It's looking at the heat. So when this was published by the New York Times, there was a very interesting memo with a little touch of humor from Raytheon to the Navy. saying, you know those things you've published?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It was taken with one of the devices that we sold you to put under the wing of your aircraft. It's not a camera. It's not a photographic camera. You gave us specifications for what you wanted us to build, and that's what we gave you. You wanted something that could measure the temperature of the exhaust of an enemy aircraft that you're going to shoot down.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You know, the F-18 goes behind that Russian thing or MiG or whatever, and the camera is painting the exhaust from the Russian guy. So that you can distinguish between American Airlines 723 and a MiG. That's going to help you discriminate what kind of enemy you've got. Is it friend or foe first? If it's friend, you peel off and that's fine. If it's an enemy, you're going to engage the guy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
That's what we gave you. You didn't tell us you wanted a device to track flying saucers because we don't know what flying saucers are. If you do, you know, we'll build one. And that memo is just so funny. You know, it's an official, you know, I make it a little bit funnier than it was, but it's an official memo and it's very straightforward.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yeah. Well, the... The radar said that it took off and popped up somewhere else. And so we accept that at face value because it's in the New York Times. And that may be true. In my work in venture capital, I've looked at all kinds of technology that's around. So I go to technology meetings. Those are open, they are not secret or anything. and people talk about their gadget or their device.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
They are looking for many to make in larger quantity. I found myself in a conversation with a guy from one of the aircraft companies in Southern California. I asked him, You know, there is a device that has a funny name, like Dyspro or something like that, and it measures, it acquires radar signals I think it's a DSPR, you know, for radar.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And that gadget, I had never heard of it, and it's actually not classified. Now it was developed initially so that you could analyze radar data, that was coming to you. If somebody was painting your aircraft on the radar, you could detect the characteristics of the radar pulse. why would you want to do that? Well, you want to do that because, and it, I said, well, what does it look like?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Is it classified? He said, no, it's not classified. Many airplanes, civilian airplanes can carry it. You put it in the nose of your, Piper Cub or whatever, and you fly around Los Angeles, and it will acquire the characteristics of all the radars in the Los Angeles area digitally. It's a digital thing. It's a computer, essentially, that acquires radar data, and then it feeds back
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
radar characteristics of any aircraft you want somewhere else. So if you want your paper cup to look like a B-52 20 miles away, you turn on, I'm making it simple, but you program the thing and you can redirect the defense, the air defense, for example, to another place.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yes. Or make it look like you've disappeared in mid-air and reappeared somewhere else. Oh. Digitally. It's a digital radar feedback device that once you know the characteristics of the radars that are painting you... I mean, obviously, suppose you want to travel to Moscow over the Iron Curtain without being shut down by the Soviet Air Force. You'd want to redirect all the radars.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, you know, I don't know this dirt problem. I don't know how far it's gotten in the last 30 years. The guy I was talking to was telling me about technology of 30 years ago. Wow. It blew my mind. I didn't know you could do that. Right. I didn't know until just now. You could just paint... I'm not sure where the technology is and who is cleared for that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And there are companies in Silicon Valley that are heavily involved in advanced processing and advanced programming, specifically recruiting young men and women with that kind of talent. I have three grandsons that I love, and one of them is – It's not clear whether he's actually autistic in the current definition, but he certainly has some of those indications. Some sort of a gift.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Pilots are cleared for certain things, obviously for all their equipment on board. They are not necessarily cleared for, so you have to ask, in the case of the Nimitz, what clearances did these pilots we see on TV, what clearances did they have? No, they have the electronic countermeasure clearance. They don't necessarily have it. I mean, some of them didn't have the camera.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Some of those who are on TV today talking about these images, the image didn't come from them. It came from one of their buddies who came afterwards. There's also the question of where they take place. So half of the data is missing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
If you were going to test equipment— I think this was in international waters. Yes.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I have a colleague in Silicon Valley who has a distinguished army career and he told me that there were in fact tests of especially nuclear facilities, not necessarily the military but mostly the military facilities. to test the ability to penetrate the perimeter. So those flights are not cleared with the people who manage the plant. So it's either a nuclear plant that makes...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
fuel for bombs or it's a base where nuclear weapons are stored and there are guys around the perimeter with machine guns and they are going to sound an alert if they see something coming over the fence. Well, suppose you come over the fence looking like a flying saucer. Are they going to start shooting or not? So they, you know, he told me that he had actually flown some of those missions.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And I know another member of the BAS team who confirmed that told me he had been on some of those missions. they make their plane look like, they put lights around it, so it can look like a flying saucer, essentially, or look like what a UFO, what would be a UFO to the guard. So that the guard is, they want to see if they can penetrate,
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
disguise yourself to the extent that psychologically you can inhibit the reaction of the guards and you can fly over the fence. Because if you can fly over the fence, you're in. You can do a lot of damage. So pretend you're a UFO. But I don't think they do hundreds of those. I think they probably do it very carefully at a couple of places.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Of thinking and getting information in ways that are very different from the ... Now, it may be that in evolution, The reason sort of, quote, lower animals can do it and we cannot is that we've developed other ways of getting information that are more reliable in the long run. So it may be just one of the dormant abilities that we have that most of us don't develop.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So I was about 15, 16. I was still in school and then the following year I was going to go to the university and my mother called me. I was working with my father who was relaxing, doing some furniture and I was helping him and I heard my mother call from the yard and I went down and saw an object that was Absolutely a saucer. It looked like it was over the steeple of the cathedral there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And we were about half a kilometer away from it. and it was just suspended, it was silver, and there was a clear dome on top of it. And we both saw that. It was very clear. And then the next day I asked a friend of mine from school who was, we were the two good students in physics and so on, And I told him I had seen that, and he said he had looked at it with binoculars.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
He had seen it too, and he had looked at it with binoculars, and I got him to draw it, and he drew exactly what I had seen, essentially a lens-shaped thing with a dome, a clear dome on top. How long did you see it for? I saw it for less than a minute. I think I went inside. I don't remember what I did. Logically, I probably went inside to get my father so that he could see it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And then when he came out, it was gone? Well, he didn't even come out. He said it was probably one of the new... the new planes that were flying around. Because this was a time when the meteors and the early jets were being tried and they were training pilots with them and so on. both for Civil Aviation and for the Air Force in France.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So he said, well, let's wait, you know, maybe this will be disclosed at some point. So I didn't say anything about it. Also, you know, the son of a judge, family of a judge isn't supposed to see strange things in the air over the town. So it was sensitive. What year was this? When you were 15? How old are you now? It was 1955.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, and also it wouldn't just stand there. Right, it wouldn't be able to just sit there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
After that, you know, I understood that it was. After that, I worked at Paris Observatory. After I had my degree in astronomy, tracking satellites. We tracked the very early satellites. And we were a government office, so people were writing to us with what they had seen. And most of it we could explain. For one thing, they were seeing echo and they were seeing some of the Russian rockets.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So we would write back, I mean we had to write back to French citizen. I had a card with a French flag on it and we were serving the French. the population. So we would explain those things pretty much the way they do now. You've seen the moon rising through the fog or you've seen satellite so much alpha 23.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And we're not encouraged to grow it in school because it's disturbing for the rest of the class and so on.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But then there were cases where just like that where they saw something we could not explain. But then we would tell them but we wouldn't publish it. We wouldn't send it anywhere. For one thing, it wasn't our job. Our job was tracking satellites.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, and some of it is, you know, some of it is legitimate. Yeah. And I think ufologists in general, you know, they want disclosure, disclosure, disclosure, but we don't know. You know, I'm very respectful of, you know, when I had the clearances that, I was just very respectful of those clearances because there are people who know what's on the other side of that.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There was one case in the Air Force files that was classified. It was marked in the index with a star. And I'm punching the card and I put an asterisk there. And I had to ask Dr. Hynek, you know, what happened? Can you tell me what happened there? And he said, yeah, there was enough time that I can tell you.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
This came from a woman in Alaska called the Air Force because she saw what she thought was a flying saucer, certainly something that should not have been there. It was dark on the ground, but the sky was still light. And there was definitely, I don't know, a light that looked like it was under power that was flying west.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Now, west of Alaska, you know, there's a corral peninsula and there's a Soviet Union. So she thought it was a UFO. So it was reported as a UFO, but it was classified and it was called unidentified. Well, you know, that was an inside joke. It was a U2. But this was at sunset, and the U2 was illuminated by the sun.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yes. And you find that also in South America and in Australia. Australia, New Zealand. And the indigenous people. Yes. Yeah. Natives. But, you know, up to the current population.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean, U2 is painted in such a way that it shouldn't be visible from, but there are some conditions where you're going to see it. So it was classified, and if you had the clearance, you would read that it was unidentified. It would be listed in the statistics as unidentified. But it was actually a U2.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yeah, that makes sense. I have no problem with that. Right. But, you know, tell me if you ask me to write a computer program about it. Tell me if it's worth my time or not.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
To me, that's still a question. And the people I talk to are still wondering, you know, what is that? It... There are strange physical systems that are floating around to gather faint signals, and they have very strange shapes. Those are balloons within balloons with little things attached to them. Going back to the days of...
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Now, 1947, looking for atomic explosions, Russian – that's the way the Russian tests, atomic tests were detected first was with balloons that had large antennas that were –
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I don't know. You don't know. Yeah. I have not researched it and I wouldn't be the guy to research it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Yes, and that's an embarrassment of riches in a way. Of course, that opens a question, you know, is it a simulation? And has published a couple of books about that. He's a friend of ours, and Dr. Nolan, and we've had many conversations about that. We could be living in a simulation of sorts where the people running the simulation might send whatever they want.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I mean, it would be like a video game. So all of a sudden you've got a new... But that's not completely... You can only go so far. In fact... First reaction is, well, you know, but look at the detail. We can't reproduce a detail on that scale. That's true, but, you know, wait 10 years and we'll be able to do it. I mean, with quantum computing and all that. So that's not a good argument.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It's an okay argument now, but it doesn't stand the test. The other argument is, you know, who would be doing it and why? I mean, that's true that there are some strange things. I mean, the fact that the moon is exactly the size to hide the sun. It's exactly, you know. 30 minutes of arc, like the sun. So it gives us total eclipses and it gives us a measuring tool.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The Greeks knew roughly how far the sun was with respect to the moon. They knew the ratio of the distances. They didn't get the exact distance, but they already knew that because they had done the math, the geometry. So that's pretty strange. And it also protects our environment by keeping us stable.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And there are lots of things on Earth that seem to be accidental that are just right for us to exist. Yeah. But I'm not completely happy with that. that explanation.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So, you know, again, in my own – I've studied parapsychology more as a personal interest. But Dr. Puthoff and Dr. Targ were doing it with scientific controls. That was the point. To look at it from a physics point of view, not just from a parapsychology or psychology point of view. So they were designing tests that were more tied to physical quantities.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, but there are also things that are strange, but that we could research, that we are doing a very bad job of researching. I got a phone call a couple of years ago from a woman who had been a student at a school, a high-level preparatory school on the East Coast. I had published a book in the early 80s about UFOs, and she was head of a lecture bureau for the kids.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And she thought it would be fun to bring me there to talk about flying saucers because it would excite the students and so on. So I went there and I gave a lecture at the level of, but those were very bright students. It was sort of an elite girl's school. And then she drove me back to the airport and I went home. Never heard from her again. What, 35 years pass and she calls me.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And she says, you may not remember me, but I was the one who brought you to give the lecture at the school. Do you ever come to Washington? And I said, I do remember you. And I go to Washington a couple of times a year. And she says, well, I'd like to tell you about an experience I had. And next time you come to Washington, ring me up.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And when you're done with your meetings, I'll pick you up and I'll drive you to Dallas. So I do that. I call her. She picks me up in a very nice Mercedes and she says, I've never forgotten your lecture. And I saw something here on the way to the airport where we're passing now that I'd like to describe to you because it reminded me of your lecture and I had never heard that anywhere else before.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
You know, there are trees along the freeway on both sides, beautiful. The freeway was dark and the sky was still blue. She said, I saw an elongated object, which was like, to me, twice 747. with what people would probably think of as portholes or windows. They were just lights along the thing. The thing was elongated and it was moving slowly. minding its own business.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It must be on 10 radars including the airport. And it was moving over and then the sky was perfectly clear, no clouds, no fog. It blended with the sky. I could just see the outline still. It didn't speed up. I could see the lights and I could see the lights fading and then there was nothing there.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And I remember in your lecture in the 80s, you talked about things that could be going into another dimension. But I thought that was interesting, and the kids thought it was an interesting idea. And yeah, in science, you talk about different dimensions in physics and so on, but I had never seen it mentioned anywhere else, and there it was.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
This thing faded from our universe, and I have no idea where it went. But it didn't speed up. So I said, thank you very much. Can I publish that? It said, no way. I'm the CEO of an international commercial company. We work in several countries. And I can't have my name associated with it. Now, I've had probably a dozen cases like that with people from Silicon Valley.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
They report on Wall Street about how their company is doing. They don't want a reporter saying, are you the same guy who sees flying saucers? You're the CEO of this such and such microchip company in San Jose. So, yeah. You know, they don't report it. But they want me or some of my colleagues to know about it because they know it could contribute to the research we're doing.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And, you know, Dr. Nolan has had that experience as well, as you know. But it's not going to the Air Force. It's not going to the newspapers. It's not going to the New York Times. Now, if those things can... you know, just jump out of our universe and go somewhere else. That rewrites the whole thing. We're not talking about propulsion the way we think about propulsion.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
We're not talking about environmental environment. We're not talking the passage of time in the same way that I would experience with my watch and so on. We're talking about something that has the rules are different. And we need to go up and start thinking along those rules, or at least the possibility of those rules.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It doesn't prove that there is another universe five minutes ahead of us, but there could be. And then all the papers that they publish saying there couldn't be flying saucers because there isn't life closer than 2,000 light years from us. And they would take, at the speed of light, it would take 2,000 years to come here. Well, there could be another universe five minutes ahead of us.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And one of the people that they brought in was Ingo Swann, who was an artist from New York. He was very uncomfortable with California. The sky is always blue. You know, it's boring and so on. He liked New York. He liked the animation of the city and his friends and so on. But I knew, of course, of him. I had read some of the things.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
It would take them five minutes to get here, okay? So that would explain why we have visitations throughout history and they look the same throughout history because, you know, our technology, I mean, this technology or this microphone didn't exist 20 years ago. You know, it's a new microphone. And there were no microphones, you know, 200 years ago, there were no microphones at all.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So how come those things look the same? How can we compare them to something somebody saw in the 18th century? That shouldn't happen. And that's where technology is stuck. Right, right, right.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And you'll have to think, I mean, we think about an aircraft in ways completely different. I mean, there are things that, yes, it came from the Wright brothers and so on, and there were speculation before on how you could fly. But what an aircraft does today is radically different. The whole physics is different.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There are a couple of things I wanted to bring up that are in the book. Well, one is in the book, the other one isn't. What's in the book is I've tried to continue the parapsychology experiments that were done at SRI and now at lots of other places.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And I got advice from people who said if you put yourself in certain types of conditions, you could try to manifest another form of intelligence or another form of essentially an apparition. It's not necessarily related to UFOs, but if you can do that, that would teach you what you could do also with some of the encounters that people describe, that the witnesses tell me.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So if I'm a good scientist, I should put myself in their place first and experience it myself. So I did a couple of sort of mental experiments like that in my home. I was alone at the time in my home and nothing happened. And then nothing like what I expected happened.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And then I was asleep one night and all of a sudden I'm propelled outside of my body into another room and there is an entity there. A massive sort of rectangular mass, entity. Clearly, something that knows where it is and is thinking. I'm terrified, not terrified so much of the entity. It's like a sort of black rectangle. But I'm terrified of being outside my body.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So, when he came to SRI, he told me that, you know, remote viewing is one thing, parapsychology, but it should be applied to science. And also, you know, it had to be applied to intelligence in the sense of, you know, the The intelligence agencies were funding SRI to do this.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I know people do experiments with that and there are people who can do it almost that well. I've never tried to do that, I think, because I've heard you know, cautions that it's very dangerous because what if you don't find your way back? So I'm terrified. I get, I find myself back in my body. I get, you know, I sit up completely terrified, crying, screaming, which is not usual.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Because it was just, you know, it really was horrible. Then I rationalize it. The experience wasn't supposed to happen outside of my body. When people describe entities like Whitley Strieber describes it and so on, there is a very strong psychic impact. But to me that was very shocking. It hasn't happened before and hasn't happened since.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
I'm not trying to make it happen, but I wanted to flag it and to get advice mostly from other people. Did you feel compelled to try it again? I would try it again. But you have not yet?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, you know, there is a scientist I know well in Silicon Valley who also started a number of companies that are publicly traded now who invented the integrated circuit. His name is Federico Faggin. He's a physicist from Italy.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
with a phd from italy he came to silicon valley in the very early days of the transistor worked with the the initial teams in those places and uh then you know there was a problem of how can you pack those things together in smaller and smaller and he's recognized as the father or one of the two or three people who invented the integrated circuit.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So for a long time he was celebrated in that capacity. What he didn't say is that he had seen the design outside of his body one night and that he had had multiple experiences outside of his body. Now, this is someone, one of the fathers of Silicon Valley. I mean, I recognize him as one of my mentors in venture capital, in high technology investment.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
But now he's made enough money that he doesn't care anymore and he's sort of semi-retiring. He doesn't like what's going on right now and he's probably going to go back to Europe. There are a number of people like that whose names are in the Wall Street Journal or in the New York Times who've achieved something. But you find out that they also had – and they experimented with it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
In his case, he experimented systematically with the ability to go out of his body and – And acquire this information from some other source. Or a vision? There isn't much. There are a couple of books that mention steps you can take, but it seems to be pretty much up to the individual. In my case, I certainly wasn't trying to do that. I was precipitated instantly to the place where this being was.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The three-letter agencies, there were a number of them who were very interested because they knew that gift existed in pilots and a number of people. And so they were trying to figure out a way to utilize this for military applications? Mostly to look at developments in the Soviet Union at that point. But also lost spacecraft. They found lost spacecraft in the middle of a jungle in Africa.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There were also a couple of things that I never wrote about, not that I wanted to hide them or was afraid of them, but I wanted to understand the context of it before I did. And I talk about it in this book. In the late 70s, my wife, my first wife, Janine, was a psychologist.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
We bought a place in the country in Northern California, a place in the Redwood Forest, because I wanted to re-experience the pleasure of doing astronomy as an amateur, you know, a small telescope and so on. I don't care. I want to look at the moon. I want to look at planets. I want to look at Magellanic clouds, whatever. And so we built this.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There was a house there, but I built an observatory in the middle of the forest. This is a redwood forest. uncluttered and unspoiled. Pretty much inaccessible. If you didn't own the land, you couldn't go cut the trees. So those were, there was some old redwoods there and the closest neighbor was about three quarter mile away. Three quarter of a mile away.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And I felt this is going to be like a discontinuity in the forest and maybe it will attract whatever is out there. And maybe we'll see UFOs. We never did. We owned the place for 18 years. We'd go there with our kids and it was wonderful. But we went there not every weekend, but pretty much as much as we could. And then our kids grew up and moved away. We moved back to the city. We sold the place.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The last night, of course, we had cleaned the place. We were selling it to friends of ours who were our neighbors at a winery. They wanted to expand the land. We had some flat land they wanted to use for the wine. and they wanted the house. And so the last night, everything has been moved out.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
My wife is still there because we had a car that was going to be taken back to the city, and she had her car, and she was ready to go. Middle of the night, there's a light that... filling the house. No, by then there are no curtains, nothing. Filling the house. Blue, sort of UV, white, blue, ultraviolet light. She goes outside and the light is making everything clear, the forest, everything else.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
And it's moving, it doesn't have a specific shape, It's like a mass of light with light all around it. It's going down the driveway, which is a dirt road, to the main road, to the small road. And it's just moving along politely in front of the ranch and down to the street. has no business being there. No sound, it's not a car, it's not a car on fire.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
The light, again, everything is, all the details are there. You can see the grass, you can see the leaves on the trees. Why that?
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
So the ARPANET was around 74. Yeah. Wow. It was funny because I was in my office and the vice president of SRI came in, closed the door and said, Jacques, you've published some things that are controversial under your name. on UFOs, and you haven't lost your scientific reputation, which is why you're here working for us at SRI on the ARPANET.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
There was one time we used to sleep in the observatory. There was a small bedroom there with old books. that I had collected. And she saw, she woke up and she saw a light that was like what people describe, small light. She didn't see where it came from or where it went, but it was moving along the walls. There were two of them. and then it vanished. She woke me up, but I had not seen it.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
No, it was Russian. So they found it through remote viewing? Yes. Really? So Ingo was starting to go around the labs at SRI. He had never been in a scientific institution where it's full of computers and gadgets and measuring instruments and everything else. So he wanted to know. He saw that as the next domain where parapsychology could be applied in a strict scientific rational way.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, as you know, Mr. Bigelow has done experiments of his own with lights and with things like that, putting interesting objects in certain places that are enclosed and seeing if something is going to look around or move them and so on. So very interesting.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Well, what's important is to have guidelines for research. I look to some of the people you have here who have done some other exploring, and I try to learn from them and sort of refine my own criteria.
The Joe Rogan Experience
#2288 - Jacques Vallée
Scattered Castles is a – it's not classified, but it comes from the classified world. It's a repository of classified projects. So if you're cleared at a certain level and you want to know what else is there that you would have access to or where certain things are being sent to you and you're authorized to, you could look up the names of those projects.