Rick Perry was the 47th governor of Texas and the 14th secretary of Energy in the first administration of President Donald Trump. https://x.com/GovernorPerry W. Bryan Hubbard was the 1st Chairman of the Kentucky Opioid Commission and currently leads the REID Foundation’s American Ibogaine Initiative. https://x.com/w_bryan_hubbard https://www.reid.foundation/texas-ibogaine-initiative https://www.reveilleadvisors.com/ibogaine/ This episode is brought to you by AG1.Take ownership of your health with AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 AND 5 free Travel Packs with your first subscription. Go to http://drinkag1.com/joerogan Go to https://www.expressvpn.com/ROGAN and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: Who are the main guests on this episode?
the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day
Well, Governor Perry, thank you very much for being here. It's a pleasure and honor to meet you. And Brian, would you explain your relationship and how you guys know each other?
I had a public service career in the state of Kentucky, and the last stint of it involved my role as the chairman and executive director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission. Within that role, I designed for what, by lack of a better term, was the Kentucky Abagate Initiative.
The state had received $842 million in settlements that will be paid out over the next 15 years by opioid distributors and manufacturers for their role in the creation and perpetuation of the opioid epidemic. And as the Kentucky Ibogaine Project was developed and executed, I was introduced to Governor Perry as someone who was a believer and advocate in the medicine. He and I developed...
professional relationship. He was a vocal supporter and participant in the initiative itself. He appeared by video to give a testimonial about the immense potential around the development of Ibogaine. And he also was so wonderfully helpful as to procure an op-ed in Newsweek magazine in October of last year endorsing the initiative.
He has been a tremendous supporter, mentor, and I am privileged to call him.
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Chapter 2: What is the Kentucky Opioid Commission and its significance?
The phone rang in the governor's mansion. The security detail said, there's a young man down here who said you told him the next time he's through Austin, Texas, come by and see you. And he's here. I said, that's hilarious. I said, what's his name? And Marcus Latrell. I said, yeah, I told him that. Well, send him in. That was in May of 07. And he lived with us for the next two and a half years.
In August of 2009, he left. And that's what started me and my wife on this long journey, this adventure that has taken me to sitting at Joe Rogan's table talking about veterans' mental health. We've been down literally dozens of rabbit trails, frankly, the bulk of them. They were interesting, but they really didn't bring any relief, didn't bring any help.
We learned about the brokenness of our government's ability to help these young men and women. Marcus literally was separated
from the uh... the navy uh... without the ability to have try carry he the only place he could get his health care job was at the v a and he had to have some very specific uh... surgeries on his back highly technical surgeries not on my son i'm not gonna let you go to the v a and had that done no offense but i said i'll go raise the money and find somebody
that we can get you the type of help that you need. And I went to Houston. I talked to a doctor there, Stan Jones, who's the chief medical officer for a stem cell company now called Celltex. But he had heard of Marcus by then. Marcus's book had come out, I think, in OH when it came out. and went to number one on the New York Times bestseller list.
So people started to know who Marcus Luttrell was, knew his story, and we were able to get him the medical help that he needed. I also intervened at that time with the Secretary of the Navy, Ray Mabus. And I call Ray. Ray was the former governor of Mississippi, so I knew him through that role. And I told him, I said, here's what I've got. And I said, this kid is a legit American hero.
And I said, our government's just completely dropped the ball on being able to take care of him. And I said, I don't want to embarrass your boss, but I said, you need to get this kid back in, reevaluate him, get him not fit for duty so he can get eligible for TRICARE, of which they did. And my hat's off to them for doing that and doing it. It just took a
The sadness of all of this, Joe, from my perspective, is Marcus Luttrell was just fortunate in a lot of different ways. That by the grace of God, he met a governor, a guy that could actually intervene and make a difference. There's literally thousands, thousands of young men and women out there today who have mental health issues that don't know a governor, don't have anybody to help.
And that's why I've spent however many years, that's been 17 years, Helping, being open to all the different ways that we could help these young men and women. Back in 07, I helped create a foundation that buys homes. It's called Military Heroes Support Foundation. And they've given away 1,000 homes now. George Strait gives away one of their homes at every one of his concerts.
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Chapter 3: How did Rick Perry get involved with Ibogaine?
I came to learn that the Social Security Disability Program was not necessarily run primarily for the benefit of the Social Security Disability recipients. It was run for the perpetual expansion of the SSA's own bureaucracy and that while Social Security disability benefits represented 16% of benefit payments within the system, it consumed 45% of the agency's budget.
In order to get more money, you must have more recipients, despite the nature of those outcomes. I came to also run the state's child support enforcement system. Within that role, it was perceived that the state was not delivering child support payments to children. It is the largest single anti-poverty program, not just in Kentucky, but in the country.
Direct payment transfers from an obligated parent to the custodial parent. It was believed that there were a number of deadbeat dads who were just not paying the bill. And what I came to find out was that those officials who were responsible for running the program, and in Kentucky that was 120 individually elected county attorneys, in fact, had some systemic issues.
There were a cohort of county attorneys who were running that program perfectly. There was another cohort that were running it with some degree of success, but not necessarily at top performance. And then there was another group that were running their operations horribly. I discovered that within the cohort of 117 elected officials, 40 of them
owned their own property, which they then turned around and charged the child support program rent. Essentially, federal and state tax dollars through rent payments were going to allow for the acquisition of private real estate equity interest by elected officials at the county level, something that was immediately ended when I came into that job.
Governor Bevin lost his race for re-election in 2019, and because of some of the measures that were taken to bring accountability, transparency, and performance expectations to that child support program, I was terminated from my job on hour one of day one of the administration of newly elected Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear.
I was picked up by a gentleman who is my dear friend by the name of Daniel Cameron, who had been elected Attorney General in 2019. He asked that I run his Office of Medicaid Fraud and Abuse Control, a law enforcement office which investigates and prosecutes medical providers for being engaged in fraud against the state's Medicaid system. This coincided with the onset of COVID.
I brought in a deputy by the name of Matt Kleinert, who was a Medicaid policy expert. And over the course of two years, despite the shutdown of the state's court system, we doubled the number. of criminal indictments and convictions of medical providers on that system.
A significant portion of that caseload was comprised of providers of opioid maintenance treatments who were using their clinics, which were intended to help those who were struggling with opioid addiction, as glorified drug dealing operations which fomented the diversion of Suboxone in every little town and county in Kentucky.
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