The economy has started blinking red. President Trump’s tariffs have been roiling markets. Consumer sentiment was already down. G.D.P. forecasts are predicting slower growth. And on Tuesday night Trump declared to Congress and the nation that things had never been better.Something was different about this speech. The level of baldfaced lying. The way Republicans cheered along. How uncomfortable and uncertain Democrats seemed. It was as if, watching it all, you could feel something rupturing.My editor, Aaron Retica, joins me to talk through Trump’s fifth address to Congress.This episode contains strong language.Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected] can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by our supervising editor, Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Aman Sahota. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Chapter 1: What is the significance of Trump's latest speech to Congress?
From New York Times Opinion, this is The Ezra Klein Show. So it is Wednesday morning, March 5th. Last night, President Donald Trump gave his first address to a joint session of Congress in his second term. You don't call the State of the Union when it is this early in a term, but that's more or less what it was.
And I thought it'd be good to just walk through some impressions of it with my revered editor, Aaron Redica. Aaron, welcome to the show.
Thanks. Hi. Yeah, let's plunge right into it. What did you make of the spectacle? What did you make of the speech? What were they trying to do? What was he trying to do? What was happening there?
I felt that the first 15 minutes of the speech were different than what came after. And in an alarming way. Okay. I don't quite know how to describe this, but I felt like you could feel something rupturing. And I think I described it as you could feel... The rules, the norms, you could feel that we had broken American politics already, and there was now nothing really governing action.
And so I'd say that in a couple of different ways. One way had to do with Donald Trump and the Republicans. We will talk about the level of lying Trump did in that speech, the genuinely bald-faced lying, the way that speech came on the day when markets were in chaos.
America's momentum is back. Our spirit is back. Our pride is back. Our confidence is back. And the American dream is surging bigger and better than ever before.
And he's out there saying, it is an amazing golden age. Everything is wonderful.
America is back. Yes!
And you have the Republican Party leaping to its feet, laughing at his every joke. J.D. Vance just radiating Dwight from the office energy up behind him, just chuckling at every dumb joke the boss makes. And then on the other side, you had the Democrats who clearly did not know how to act. They do not feel this moment is normal.
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Chapter 2: How did the speech reveal divisions within American politics?
Donald Trump doesn't want the America of the 1950s. His chief of staff is a woman. His secretary of homeland security is a woman. His attorney general is a woman. He's not against women admirals. What he cares about is loyalty. The hierarchy he wants is the hierarchy of the clan with the chief, the big man chief at the top. And what matters is the tribute you pay to the chief.
And I actually don't really think Donald Trump cares if you're paying that tribute. I think he's perfectly happy to have you pay that tribute if you are white, if you are black, if you are a woman, if you are male. I am not saying he doesn't have retrograde views on all kinds of things. I'm not saying he's not a racist because I think at a core level he is.
I thought it was incredibly shitty when he had this little crack about Lesotho. Who even knows where that is? Nobody knows where that is.
$8 million to promote LGBTQI+. In the African nation of Lesotho, which nobody has ever heard of.
I mean, the guy just isn't a good person. And I'm not saying among some of the other people around him, like Elon Musk, who grew up in South Africa and seems to view the way South Africa changed and hit the end of apartheid and the role of Afrikaners in modern South African life is some sort of terrible mistake you need to keep from happening in America.
So I'm not saying inside his movement there isn't a lot of that. But what Trump wants, he had this whole section of the speech where he talks about merit. And we're going to get the best people. And it's actually worth playing it.
We believe that whether you are a doctor, an accountant, a lawyer, or an air traffic controller, you should be hired and promoted based on skill and competence, not race or gender. Very important. You should be hired... based on merit. And the Supreme Court, in a brave and very powerful decision, has allowed us to do so. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Think about that section of the speech, and then think about who he has named to his cabinet. RFK Jr. Tulsi Gabbard. This is not a cabinet built on merit. This is a cabinet built on loyalty and transaction to the chief. The hierarchy of this entire thing is about your relationship to Donald Trump. Kash Patel, of every person you could find in the country, Kash Patel and Dan Bongino—
Are your most meritorious picks to lead the Federal Bureau of Investigation? Nobody buys that. They're your loyalists. That is the hierarchy he wants. It is just a hierarchy with him on top. I think he's quite flexible about who's on bottom so long as they are bringing him enough gifts.
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