The Dr. Hyman Show
Food dye, ADHD, and Corporate Lies: How Big Food Targets Your Kids | Vani Hari
Wed, 09 Apr 2025
Are U.S. food companies cutting corners at the expense of your health? Vani Hari, known to many as the Food Babe, thinks so—and she’s spent over a decade sounding the alarm. In this episode of The Dr. Hyman Show, she shares why she believes many American products are still made with harmful additives and dyes, even though companies have found ways to remove them in versions sold abroad. In our conversation, she explains: Why she believes Kellogg’s and other U.S. brands aren’t doing enough to protect American consumers. The FDA loophole she says allows companies to self-approve food chemicals without oversight. How food dyes could be contributing to rising rates of behavioral issues in kids. The labeling gaps and industry tactics she says are keeping consumers in the dark. How everyday people can push back—and why she believes activism still works. Don’t miss this insightful episode! View Show Notes From This Episode Get Free Weekly Health Tips from Dr. Hyman https://drhyman.com/pages/picks?utm_campaign=shownotes&utm_medium=banner&utm_source=podcast Sign Up for Dr. Hyman’s Weekly Longevity Journal https://drhyman.com/pages/longevity?utm_campaign=shownotes&utm_medium=banner&utm_source=podcast This episode is brought to you by Sunlighten, Timeline Nutrition, Big Bold Health, and PaleoValley. Visit sunlighten.com and save up to $1400 on your purchase with code HYMAN. Support essential mitochondrial health and save 10% on Mitopure. Visit timeline.com/drhyman to get 10% off today. Try HTB Immune Energy Chews: visit bigboldhealth.com and use code DRMARK25 at checkout to get 25% off your purchase today. Get nutrient-dense, whole foods. Head to paleovalley.com/hyman for 15% off your first purchase. Head to piquelife.com/hyman to get 20% off + a free beaker and frother today.
Chapter 1: What are the harmful effects of food dyes on children?
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So, Vonnie, it's so great to have you back on The Dr. Hyman Show. It's been a while, and you have been up to some great things. And it reminds me of a quote from Margaret Mead, which is, never doubt that a small group of committed citizens can change the world. In fact, it's the only thing that ever has.
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Chapter 2: What is the FDA loophole allowing self-approval of food chemicals?
and i look at that and i say oh gosh you know they've probably taken out the dyes by now let's let's look at this let's look at the ingredients right they said they were going to do it and i couldn't believe my eyes that they were coming out with new formulas new products to attract the new children of today using the most popular toddler songs right
And then they still didn't take it out and they just went back on their promise. And I'm like, why isn't anybody holding these companies accountable for, first of all, lying to the public, getting all the positive press that they were making these changes and then deciding not to go forward with it and then create new serials to target children of today?
This was something that I felt was so sinister. And this is why during my Senate testimony on September 23rd of last year, I made this the crux of my testimony because I was like, I wanted to look the leaders in the room in the eye, the senators and the other people
members and other elected officials and Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who was running to be in a position of power under the Health and Human Services Department. And I wanted to look them in the eye and say, hey, guys, we need help. Citizen activists like me and the people that follow me and all the moms out there that want to see these changes, we've had enough. These companies are lying to us.
They tell us they're going to do something and they don't. And then they're poisoning us with ingredients they've already figured out how to remove from their products. They already have the formulations.
they can already do this they've shown it in so many different countries so why don't they do that why don't they do it well it all has to do with money right i mean a petroleum based dye sits longer on the shelf it doesn't break down as faster as a real food ingredient like a carrot juice or a blueberry juice but also it's a way for them to again just continue using
ingredients that are allowed here in the united states because the fda has had created this loophole which basically allows food companies to approve chemicals themselves in these chemical companies and inundate our food supplies the reason why we have over 10 000 chemicals here in the united states and there's only a few hundred in europe that are allowed for years 338 yeah so it's it's it's so sad that we have this huge disparity in
the amount of chemicals we're being exposed to but the but the worst part about it it's the american food companies doing this for me i feel like it's very un-american for american companies continue this practice and it's not just kellogg's you know it's general mills it's coca-cola it's pepsico doritos
in europe don't have artificial food dyes don't have msg in them right gatorade is made with carrot and blueberry juice and here it's red 40 and we get sodium benzene and i look at cinnamon toast crunch from general mills this is something i grew up on i love that cereal and they're using a caramel color level four made from ammonia that the international for research an agency in cancer
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Chapter 3: How can consumers push back against big food companies?
Chapter 4: What happened during Vani Hari's protest at Kellogg's headquarters?
with the food industry doing this practice, which is using ingredients that are banned or heavily regulated in other countries in the exact same products that they use here in the United States, using safer, better for you chemicals, and using more toxic, more poisonous chemicals here in the United States in the same exact product that they sell overseas.
And so Fruit Loops was a perfect example of this, the fact that They have a version of Fruit Loops in Canada and Australia and Korea and India and all of Europe that doesn't have artificial food dyes. But here in the United States, it does. And this is something that has been the crux of all of my activism since day one when I quit my job as a corporate consultant.
to become a food activist full time. It was the first investigation that I did was I compared the American products, the exact same American products that are sold here in the United States compared to those same products that are sold in other countries. And when I compared the ingredient list, I mean, I was shocked.
And back then, I just remember one of the first ones I discovered was so alarming. I mean, Quaker oats, it's no longer this way. But back then, 10 years ago, it was. Quaker Oats strawberries and cream here in the United States was artificially dyed apple bits with red 40, a petroleum, you know, crude oil based dye.
But if you bought the same strawberries and cream Quaker Oats in Europe, it had real strawberries in it. And seeing those stark differences and what's been done to our food supply versus other countries by the same company, that's what made me so mad because it was like it was just this unethical business practice that these companies were engaging in. And
When I found out that the European regulators back in 2010 created a warning label, a cigarette type warning label on their products that contain these artificial dyes that warned parents that said may cause adverse effects on activity and attention in children. And these food companies said, you know, hey, we don't want to put this warning label on our product anymore.
We're going to reformulate our products so that we don't have to warn anyone about our products. And so they should have done that for all of their customers. And, you know, That day when we went to Kellogg's headquarters to deliver those petitions, that was to signify that we no longer want American companies to engage in this practice any longer.
And I would say Kellogg's was such a great target because they also back in 2015, due to the widespread awareness of artificial food dyes, decided to remove them. They said, you know, we'll remove these from our cereals by 2018. And then when I'm, you know, I just had a baby. It was 2019.
My daughter had just turned two and I'm going down the aisle and she picks up a box of baby shark cereal and it's by Kellogg's.
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Chapter 5: Why do U.S. companies use different ingredients than those sold abroad?
they can already do this they've shown it in so many different countries so why don't they do that why don't they do it well it all has to do with money right i mean a petroleum based dye sits longer on the shelf it doesn't break down as faster as a real food ingredient like a carrot juice or a blueberry juice but also it's a way for them to again just continue using
ingredients that are allowed here in the united states because the fda has had created this loophole which basically allows food companies to approve chemicals themselves in these chemical companies and inundate our food supplies the reason why we have over 10 000 chemicals here in the united states and there's only a few hundred in europe that are allowed for years 338 yeah so it's it's it's so sad that we have this huge disparity in
the amount of chemicals we're being exposed to but the but the worst part about it it's the american food companies doing this for me i feel like it's very un-american for american companies continue this practice and it's not just kellogg's you know it's general mills it's coca-cola it's pepsico doritos
in europe don't have artificial food dyes don't have msg in them right gatorade is made with carrot and blueberry juice and here it's red 40 and we get sodium benzene and i look at cinnamon toast crunch from general mills this is something i grew up on i love that cereal and they're using a caramel color level four made from ammonia that the international for research an agency in cancer
determined that that specific coloring causes cancer in rats. That should not be in a cereal we are giving to schools to serve children that mothers and fathers across the country are buying for their children. This is an unnecessary chemical that these companies have already shown that they can make the same product without these harmful chemicals.
When, again, I go back to that day at the Senate, when I gave that testimony, it was like the whole room was electrified. Everybody got this issue and everybody understood that this needed to change, including the leaders in that room. And when RFK Jr. went out on the campaign trail, post that round table, it was amazing. He carried my voice. He carried the message.
And he took it to the campaign trail and he said, hey, one of the first things I'm going to do when I'm put in a position of power is I'm going to ask the cereal companies to remove these diets. I don't know if it's going to be that easy by just asking them to do that.
But I think with the position that he's in now and the leadership that's going to be supporting him, like Dr. Marty McCarran, who's also giving testimony that day that I got to know and saw how he wants to look at the root cause of disease. You know, I can see that this new leadership understands that these problems could probably get solved for the first time ever.
And when I look at the rates of ADHD and how over 3 million children are on some kind of ADHD medication, that over 7 million children are diagnosed with it. So many parents are looking for answers of why their kids can't sit still in school or they're having behavioral issues or they're having learning problems. And this is the one thing that we can solve.
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Chapter 6: What changes can be made to improve food labeling?
um you know i didn't know what was going to happen but i never expected a security guard to come out and receive those petitions and no one representing actual kellogg's being there to talk to us like i couldn't believe it yes they had a security guard and so you know when we looked up into the building we saw the executives some still left in the building they actually told all of their employees to go home that day
And so nobody was going in and out of the building. And we looked up and there were still some executives in the building and they started looking down at us and they were smiling, making faces. And eventually one guy brings over a rolling whiteboard and writes, get off our lawn to all the women and children behind me that are
you know, supporting this cause and asking Kellogg's to uphold their commitment and, you know, do what's right. And it was it was such a moment of like, how stupid can you be as a corporation to do that, to Well, a group of people that truly care about changing the food system.
But also, if anything, they added fire to the to the to the movement because it was, you know, if they had sat down with us that day, they would have inoculated us in a way because we would have said, oh, they're listening. Oh, they they're they're going to take time to think about this. Maybe they'll communicate with us, whatever. Right.
But instead, they turned their back on us, told us to get off their lawn. And that's when the national boycott happened, which resulted in the numbers that you just talked about. And now, you know, what's very interesting is their stock price recently just went up and shot up all of a sudden. And I was like, wait, what's going on? There's got to be something that's happening, right?
Well, what's happening is there are companies looking at taking it over. Private companies like Ferrero is the candy maker on the street that's looking at taking over Kellogg's. And this is actually something that happened shortly after this all was going down.
When I was talking to a consultant in the food industry and trying to figure out what was going on at Kellogg's, they said things are so backwards there that they cannot figure out how to actually make this change without losing a lot of money.
So one way that they would do it to be viable is actually take their company private, make the changes, and then eventually come back as a public company later on. That was one way that this consultant recommended that this could happen. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's actually what's about to happen, I think, because this is what the market is seeing right now. And so
I don't know what the future holds for Kellogg's. I know that they've suffered in terms of PR. They've suffered in terms of brand value. I can tell you Fruit Loops sales are down as well as all of their cereals. Most of their cereals are down. I don't know if all of them are, but I have to go back and look at the latest data, but But the majority of them are down.
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Chapter 7: How does the food industry manipulate children into being addicted to unhealthy foods?
And when I kind of separated my body and my being and my body, Hari, from what's happening on the outside to me, that was the moment that I said, okay, this is the mission is bigger than just myself. So whatever happens to me in terms of being attacked or whatever, it doesn't matter because I can help.
One more person not suffer the way I suffered as a child and prevent that suffering, then this work is worth it. And I started to just focus on willing. I started to ignore the haters online, which were actually a paid for group, you know, coordinated to attack me. I started to call them out by writing a whole book about it, naming names.
What was the name of that book, Devani, so people can refer back to it?
Feeding You Lies.
Feeding Your Life. It was a great book, by the way. I love that book.
And it was really all about this sort of nefarious tactics that the food industry has used for decades to control the narrative around food, whether it's direct food lobbying, Congress, whether it's front groups, whether it's co-opting social groups like the NNCP, or whether it's funding universities and academic centers to do research on their behalf. and basically writing it for them.
I mean, like the Global Energy Balance Network, it was funded, I think, by Coca-Cola. Their website was set up by Coca-Cola. They were trying to prove that all calories are the same. It didn't matter if you had Coca-Cola calories or broccoli calories. It was actually identical in terms of their effect on the human body.
And yes, all calories are the same in the laboratory when you burn them, but not when you eat them. When you eat them, they go through your microbiome, through your hormones, your metabolism. your immune system. And so they have profoundly different effects.
And so the narrative of the food industry has really been to sort of undermine any attempt to try to challenge this narrative by actually sounding like they're doing good. Like right now with ultra-processed food, they're all about it. Like, oh, if you stop that, food's not going to be safe. It's not going to be convenient. It's not going to be affordable.
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Chapter 8: What role does activism play in food safety reform?
So yes, there are networks that are still not engaging in this conversation. And that is a shame on them.
Well, I mean, listen, if you look at their advertisements, it's iPharma and basically processed ultra food, processed food companies and junk food companies that are marketing their goods. That's probably 80 or 90% of the ads on television. So when you look at their bottom line, and I actually spoke to someone who was at one of these major
tv stations and networks and they said look we get it we we agree with you but we're told we can't you know from down on high and i'm i literally uh someone uh i won't say who but you know she she was putting together a show uh on a network that you were in and and and they basically kind of kind of labeled bobby and his whole anti-vaxxer and kind of this this and they also said that the science is settled basically the sciences have been debunked that
There's a link between vaccines and autism. Now, whether there is or not, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I'm saying that sentence is anti-science.
To say something is settled is absolutely ridiculous because when you look at, for example, medicine over the history, we used to think that aspirin was great for everybody to take to prevent heart attacks until we realized that, oops, it's causing brain bleeds and intestinal bleeding and it's killing tens of thousands of people a year who are taking aspirin for preventing death from a heart attack.
not be taking it. We used to think that ulcers were caused by stress, but then we now know they're caused by bacteria and antibiotics to fix it. So science has never settled. That's the whole purpose of science is this ongoing questioning, challenging ideas, hypotheses, you know, and so I think we have to look at this stuff and in a way that has integrity.
And it's just astounding to me when the media says this science is settled or that science is settled or it's been proven that and that's definitive that, you know, it's OK to have ultra processed food or whatever. And even the Dietary Guidelines Committee didn't determine that ultra processed food was a contributor to obesity. And I understand why they were limited the studies they could look at.
They didn't kind of used epidemiological studies to kind of make the conclusions that they might have otherwise made if they had randomized controlled trials. But it was just, it's so obvious that they're kind of acting in ways that are misrepresenting what's really true. And I think we're finally at a moment where we can actually speak the truth and tell the truth and have people start to listen.
and actually do the right thing. So I think it's quite a mind-boggling moment. I still pinch myself every day and say, this is real. And I think when the commission was established, which includes Secretary Kennedy, the domestic policy advisor for Trump, Vince Haley as the executive director that has
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