In just a few weeks, the Trump administration has taken a hard line with allies such as Mexico and Canada. Now, a trade war is on the horizon with Europe.Mark Landler, the London bureau chief of The New York Times, explains how a fracturing alliance with Europe could affect global political dynamics.Guest: Mark Landler, the London bureau chief of The New York Times.Background reading: The European Union responded to American steel and aluminum tariffs with its own levies on boats and bourbon.Europe expected a transactional President Trump. It got something else.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Photo: Clemens Bilan/EPA, via Shutterstock Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Chapter 1: What is the current state of US-Europe relations under Trump?
From The New York Times, I'm Rachel Abrams. This is The Daily. In a matter of just a few weeks, the Trump administration has remade the global order. They've taken a hard line with allies like Mexico and Canada and Ukraine. They've warmed up to adversaries like Russia. And now, a trade war is on the horizon with Europe.
Today, my colleague Mark Landler on the alliance with Europe that seems to be fracturing and what all of it means for the new world order. It's Friday, March 14th. So, Mark, it has felt like the story of the past few weeks, which we've been talking about a lot on the show, is the pretty fundamental remaking of the global order.
And we've talked about the impact of President Trump's tariffs on Mexico and on Canada, and we've talked about his efforts to take over Greenland. But it feels like one of the biggest ruptures in all of this is the seeming breakdown of the relationship with Europe. And you have been covering Europe and the White House for decades, so I'm just really curious what you are making of this moment.
Well, you called it a seeming breakdown, which actually might underplay what's going on in the transatlantic relationship right now. Just since President Trump took office, you've seen him openly undermine the NATO alliance. You've seen him threaten that the U.S. will no longer provide a security umbrella for Europe. You saw him essentially side with Russia against Ukraine.
You alluded to the tariffs that he's imposed, not just on Mexico and Canada, but now on the European Union. So when you add all this up, it's really causing Europeans to question the very survival of this alliance that has characterized the post-World War II era. And, you know, of course, the implications of this are enormous.
They extend well beyond Europe, because if you think about it, the transatlantic alliance is really the bedrock arrangement that has shaped the entire world order for decades. not just militarily, strategically, but also in terms of trade and economic relations. So this is a genuinely shocking moment for Europe and for Europeans.
But in some sense, it shouldn't be entirely surprising because if you go back... through time, the Europeans should have seen at least some of this coming. It was being telegraphed to them, not just in the last year, not even just in President Trump's first term, but really over the last 5, 10, even 20 years.
So you could see these last few weeks as the Europeans were finally waking up from a state of denial.
Well, let's go back through time. Tell us the story of how the relationship even got to this point.
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Chapter 2: Why is the transatlantic alliance significant?
And so the Europeans were reassured. They thought the U.S. is now back to standard operating procedure. And it felt like the status quo had been restored. And indeed, that was reinforced after Russia invaded Ukraine.
I made it clear.
I will not bow down to Putin. Because you saw the United States and Joe Biden come to the aid of Ukraine with heavy duty military aid. And so for the Europeans, it felt very much like the status quo had been restored and Europe could rely on the United States as its guarantor of security for the foreseeable future.
It's a guarantee. An attack on one is an attack on all. That is our unshakable vow.
But at this point in time, they've had two U.S. presidents from different political parties, both telling Europe, you guys need to step it up. And at the same time, Europe is also seeing this real existential threat from Russia. So I just sort of wonder if all of this should have made defense more of an urgent priority for Europe.
I think that's a very valid question. And I think to some extent, the handwriting was on the wall for Europe for quite a long time. As you say, multiple presidents had raised questions about this. And of course, as it turned out, the aberration wasn't Donald Trump in his first term. It was Joe Biden, who was a big NATO defender.
Because when Donald Trump came back into office, not only did all these old anxieties come back to the surface, But they did so in a much more profound and wrenching way. Trump was not just talking tough about NATO. A lot of the moves he made revolved around the question of winding down the Ukraine war. And that just gave everything a very different feel. a dictator without elections.
For example, he accused the Ukrainian president, Vladimir Zelensky, of being a dictator.
Zelensky better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. Gotta move, gotta move fast.
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