Since the riot on Capitol Hill four years ago, President-elect Donald Trump and his allies have set out to sanitize the events of that day, changing it from a day of violence into, in Mr. Trump’s words, a day of love.As he prepares to take office for his second term, Mr. Trump said he plans to issue pardons to some of those responsible, throwing hundreds of criminal cases into doubt.Alan Feuer, a reporter covering extremism and political violence for The New York Times, talks to one of those rioters and explains how the pardons could help rewrite the story of what happened on Jan. 6.Guest: Alan Feuer, a reporter covering extremism and political violence for The New York Times.Background reading: How Mr. Trump inverted the violent history of Jan. 6.Hundreds of rioters accused of nonviolent crimes during the attack on the Capitol have wrapped up their cases. Here’s what some of their lives look like now.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Chapter 1: What happened on January 6, 2021?
From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. Since the riot on Capitol Hill four years ago... They were peaceful.
They were orderly and meek. These were not insurrectionists. They were sightseers.
President-elect Donald Trump and his allies have set out to sanitize the events of that day.
They're not destroying the Capitol. They obviously revere the Capitol.
Changing it from a day of violence into, in Trump's words... That was a day of love. A day of love. And it was love and peace. As he prepares to take office for his second term, Trump said he plans to issue pardons to some of those responsible, throwing hundreds of criminal cases into doubt.
As everyone knows, it will be my great honor to pardon the peaceful January 6th protesters, or as I often call them, the hostages. They're hostages.
Today, my colleague Alan Foyer talks to one of those rioters and explains how the pardons could help rewrite the story of what happened on January 6th. It's Monday, January 6th. Alan, welcome back to the show.
Thanks for having me.
So Alan, it's been exactly four years since January 6th. You've been our guide for understanding that day and the legal consequences for those involved. Donald Trump's win, of course, throws those consequences into doubt. But before we get to how this landscape might all be about to change, let's start with the basics. So as of today, January 6th, 2025,
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Chapter 2: How has Donald Trump changed the narrative of January 6?
But as I followed this story, I've watched that not only has Trump changed that narrative, changed his position on it, but that he's done so almost in a kind of private dialogue with the rioters themselves. Collectively, it's as if they've come up with an alternate reality to explain what happened on January 6.
And at least for me, I found that if you want to understand that other reality and all of the really important legal and political implications that emerge from it, you kind of have to get inside the dialogue that Trump was having with the January 6 rioters first. Now, Look, I mean, I found that most people who have been charged in these cases are not willing to do long, on-the-record interviews.
But I did meet one guy who was willing to kind of sit down and walk me through his whole story with the idea of, hey, what's going to happen if and when Trump issues pardons? Hi, Anthony.
Hi, Alan.
His name is Anthony Vo. I am currently 32 years old. He's kind of a young guy. He's from Indiana. And he entered the Capitol on January 6th. Didn't hurt anyone, didn't break anything. And he was ultimately convicted at trial of four low-level misdemeanors, including disorderly conduct. So in that way, he's actually pretty typical of most January 6th defendants, the majority of whom...
were charged with only relatively minor offenses, except for one thing.
At the moment, I am currently seeking refuge from the current United States government.
He's on the run. Like, from the law? Yeah, like he's on the lam. He was supposed to report to prison after he got sentenced, and he just didn't. He skipped.
Wow, that's wild. Alan, do you normally talk to people who are on the run from the law? It's happened a couple of times. OK, so tell me more about Anthony. Sure.
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Chapter 3: What are the legal consequences for January 6 rioters?
Yeah, like, I remember, like, of him, like, starting out campaign rally speeches, whatever, with the January 6th prisoners' choir reciting the national anthem.
In fact, at the very first official rally that Trump holds for his reelection campaign, he takes the stage to a recording of the national anthem being performed by a choir of January 6th inmates. These are people who are in prison in Washington, D.C., for crimes they committed on January 6th.
Well, thank you very much. And you see the spirit from the hostages, and that's what they are, is hostages.
Yeah, I remember hearing, like, you know, we're political hostages.
He's calling them hostages. He's calling them political prisoners.
We're being very unfairly treated by the weaponized justice system, as he has been as well, who would promise to, like, pardon the political prisoners.
The first day we get... Into office, we're going to save our country and we're going to work with the people to treat those unbelievable patriots, and they were unbelievable patriots and are.
And Anthony is hearing that message and thinking it's meant for him, like Trump is speaking to him.
Yeah, the Republican candidate for president is essentially validating Anthony's version of events. And he thinks to himself, why should I report to prison? I think I can get a pardon. Of course, what happens next is that Trump wins the election.
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