Chuck opens with an analysis of growing global tensions, including armed conflict between India and Pakistan, and the power vacuum created by America's retreat from its traditional leadership role. He discusses Joe Biden's recent BBC comments on foreign affairs and the potential for Vladimir Putin to test NATO's Article 5 commitment in the Baltics, suggesting that increased global conflict may be on the horizon as China and Russia fill the void left by the United States.Then he’s joined by the author of the new book "Heaven Help Us" and former Ohio Governor John Kasich, who offers candid insights on the lost art of political compromise and consensus-building. Kasich discusses the toxic partisanship exemplified by the Obama/Christie hug controversy, shares his perspective on healthcare reform, and explores how faith can inform governance without violating church-state separation. The conversation covers the prospects for the 2026 and 2028 elections, Ohio's political landscape, and the need for spiritual renewal in American culture. Kasich offers sharp criticism of both Trump's approach to tariffs and Biden's presidency, which he characterizes as a failure due to insulation from contrarian views.Finally Chuck responds to listeners’ questions in the "Ask Chuck" segment, addressing questions about increasing the size of the House of Representatives, how organizations earn the "non-partisan" label, and whether the national debt will trigger economic catastrophe.Timeline:00:00 Introduction03:15 Armed conflict between India and Pakistan07:30 We see more conflict when the U.S. is in retreat09:00 If America doesn’t play the role of world police, Russia and China will11:00 We’re likely to see more conflict around the world13:35 Joe Biden weighs in on foreign affairs on BBC14:45 Putin likely to test article 5 in the Baltics16:45 Democrat loss was 10 years in the making21:45 John Kasich joins the Chuck Toddcast! 23:15 Why have we lost the art of politics and compromise? 25:45 The Obama/Chris Christie hug shouldn't have been a controversy 27:00 Government never finds a way to get money out of politics 29:05 Faith in democracy? 31:35 The next president has the opposite traits of the prior president 33:05 What will the country look for in the next president? 33:55 Advice for 2028 candidates? 35:15 Could the MAGA candidates become toxic in the primaries by 2026? 36:15 Vivek Ramaswamy's prospects in the Ohio governor's race? 37:30 Ohio isn't ruby red 39:45 Voters care less about issues and more about personal connection 41:00 The issues John Kasich would focus most on addressing 43:30 The healthcare system is broken 46:15 For profit hospitals are less profitable than non-profits 48:30 Healthcare stakeholders need to be forced to compromise 49:55 We need politicians that can build consensus, not just offer a plan 53:05 Integrating faith into governance without violating separation of church and state? 56:15 The social gospel changed the culture from an "I" environment to a "we" society 57:15 Local journalism is service journalism, national journalism is civics journalism 1:00:30 How do we move America past its "I" culture? 1:02:00 We need a spiritual renewal 1:02:45 Pope Francis could be remembered as the most important of the century 1:04:15 Trump's tariff implementation shows his inability to listen and win people over 1:06:45 We've never updated the design for our public education system 1:08:30 The education industrial complex resists reform 1:11:00 Biden's staff kept him insulated from hearing contrarian views 1:11:45 Biden's presidency was a failure 1:16:15 College football has been turned into the minor leagues1:20:20 Chuck's thoughts on the interview with John Kasich 1:21:50 Ask Chuck 1:22:00 How would increasing the size of the house of representatives work? 1:24:40 How do entities/organizations earn the label "non-partisan"? 1:29:00 Will the national debt cause economic catastrophe?(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)
Chapter 1: What are the current global tensions discussed in this episode?
My previous episode, I had a former Democratic Governor of Washington State, Jay Inslee, who himself ran for President in 2020. Well, for this episode, I have a former Republican Governor of the great state of Ohio. who ran for president in 2016. It's John Kasich. He's got a new book about how faith communities can essentially do good in America in different ways.
And frankly, I think Kasich is somebody who is desperate to, I think, revive a sense of local community again. He's always kind of... Ja, genau. was made famous by George W. Bush. To me, the avatar to that is John Kasich. And before him would have been a guy named Jack Kemp. In the 80s, Jack Kemp was considered a conservative with a heart.
And the point being, look, he was an advocate for smaller government, an advocate, frankly, for more international engagement, an advocate for business. aber auch ein Anbieter für die Erleichterung von Leuten und als ehemaliger Athlet. Er konnte die Rennstrecke ausbrechen.
Er ist einer dieser Leute, von denen ich immer einen Buch schreiben wollte, mit dem Titel »Ich kann nicht glauben, dass sie nie Präsident geworden sind«. Jack Kemp und Bill Bradley sind meine A und B. Ich denke, es sind Jack Kemp, Bill Bradley und John Glenn. Ich schaue auf diese vier Leute und man könnte Bob Dolan da hinsetzen. You know, they they all ran. Don't get me wrong.
They all wanted to become president. They all just ran in the wrong year in various ways. And, you know, they got on national tickets in the wrong time. And, you know, but for a different political circumstance, they would have become president, certainly had the resume or the unique American background, astronaut, athlete, you know, etc.,
I think Kasich is one of these people that sort of has a little bit of all of that sort of... Oh, what would my friends in France call it? Je ne sais quoi. Meaning, it's just this... And he just... He feeds off of community, and I mean that as a compliment on that front.
So I think you're going to enjoy this conversation that we have, really about figuring out how we restore civics in America in a way that's a little less partisan and a little more productive. So I hope you enjoy that conversation with him. And he's got plenty to say about the current situation in politics. But I do think you'll enjoy this conversation.
But before we get to it, I want to pop in on a couple of other issues. And to me, there's one giant issue that is getting a little bit of attention, but probably deserves a lot more. And it's the current security crisis in the Southeast Asia between India and Pakistan. And
Für mich ist diese aktuelle Situation ein schrecklicher Erinnerung darauf, was passiert, wenn die amerikanische Führung von der Welt zurückkehrt. Ich werde nicht hier sitzen und sagen, Amerika ist der Grund für diese Situation. Das ist sie nicht. Okay, das ist eine langfristige regionale Wettbewerb zwischen Indien und Pakistan. Es geht zurück.
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Chapter 2: Why is U.S. disengagement a concern for global stability?
Wir sprechen über eine aktuelle Partition, die mit Israel und den Palästinens zu tun hat. Es gibt noch eine Partition, die That has also been the cause of strife around in that region. And it's in India and Pakistan. It was obviously the most just a quick refresher here. Not sure how much you're following the story.
But in late April, April 22nd, it was a terrorist attack in the Indian administered part of Kashmir. Twenty six civilians, mostly Hindu tourists. So there's a religious element here. The Hindus and the Muslims were killed. Es ist ehrlich gesagt eine ähnliche Sache, die die US-Gewerkschaft macht. Pakistan. Pakistan. Pakistan.
You have an independent intelligence agency that sometimes feels like it operates on its own. The military, literally a military industrial complex that in many ways is the stabilizer of the country. Civilian leadership that is either in the pocket of the military or finds themselves in the crosshairs of the military. But it is not a stable, there is an uneven check and balance that goes on there.
So it has always been a source of concern because both India and Pakistan have nukes. but because of the unsteadiness of the governance of Pakistan. And frankly, there's plenty of evidence that much of the nuclear intelligence that Iran and North Korea has acquired has come through essentially leaks out of Pakistan and a Pakistani scientist and things like this. So it's always been
An area of concern for a variety of reasons, but loose nukes being the biggest one. But obviously there is a when you're when you have your own citizens attack and killed, most countries are going to feel the need to respond. So, on May 6, India responded. It called it Operation Sindor. They made airstrikes. They claimed they never actually crossed into the airspace of Pakistan.
But they hit nine targets that they believe were areas in Pakistan where many of these terrorist organizations were either being protected or lived. Pakistan claims it shot down some Indian jets. Look, I think...
It's possible we are close to a crisis averted here because India sort of made it clear that they did not want to escalate, that their response was targeted and was designed to only go after the terrorists themselves. The Pakistani response was, hey, we shot down some Indian fighter jets. which is something that is certainly pretty embarrassing for India.
India has very much a conventional military advantage over Pakistan, but the fact that Pakistan also has nukes, that is what's kept this sort of uneasy balance between the two countries. And so it I think it looks like they're they're both going to take their off ramps. Obviously, if India escalates any more than Pakistan is probably going to feel the need to respond.
But they really don't have the resources to deal with India and a conventional military front. And there's no doubt that they can't escalate. But this is a reminder of what happens. I don't think it's an accident. that when the US is in retreat, that suddenly we see situations like this.
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Chapter 3: What insights does John Kasich offer on political compromise?
China hat sich in einer anderen Art und Weise engagiert. Sie sind finanziell engagiert. Sie sind tatsächlich ein großer Teil der ökonomischen Erweiterung in Afrika.
The United States has been way behind, and if anything, with essentially the shuttering of AID, we've actually disengaged even more from Africa, which is throwing many countries into the arms of China or any other entity that is willing to invest. So, look, it looks like cooler heads are going to prevail in India and Pakistan.
But it was a bit disconcerting, and I know we're doing some stuff behind the scenes. But we weren't at the forefront of this. We weren't quickly trying to deescalate in a hurry. We weren't quickly trying to... The point is.
My concern now is that what we're going to see is not less of this, but more of this, where countries are going, countries and frankly terrorist organizations are going to sort of test. Oh, there's no more American beat cop on here. Let's see what happens. Right. And it's almost like testing the fence.
And if you're in India, you're sitting there going, oh, we're going to have to respond on our own. There isn't going to be a global partner like the United States. Think about the neighborhood India is in. They've got China to the north, they've got Pakistan to the west. They certainly don't trust the Pakistanis and they don't trust the Chinese.
In many ways, they have by necessity decided to come closer to the United States. During the Cold War, India was on the Soviet side of things and Pakistan by necessity was on the American side of things. Ever since, and it really started with George W. Bush after 9-11 and then more so with Barack Obama. And that was actually continued by Donald Trump.
There's been a through line here of getting closer to India. Economically, India is likely to be the biggest beneficiary in the trade war with China. So we certainly have a lot of interest in a stable and secure Southeast Asia. Now the question is whether we're willing to use our larger global capital to do that. And I think the fact that it looks like we won't,
It's just the likelihood of more of these small regional conflicts breaking out into hot wars. And of course, one between two nuclear powers is always of a huge concern. But I'll be honest, this is something that I think American disengagement indirectly... ist die Möglichkeit, mehr davon zu machen. Das ist der Grund, warum so viele von uns pro internationalen Engagement sind.
Denn wenn man sich die letzten 80 Jahre nach World War II anschaut, hat ein amerikanischer freier Weltraum sicherer und sicherer für den ganzen Planeten gewesen. Denn in any of the years previous to World War Two or frankly already, as we see as we begin this disengagement, how violent things are already getting on multiple continents. So. Like I said, hopefully things continue to deescalate.
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Chapter 4: How does John Kasich view the future of American politics?
And it sort of put, and I think whether it's a slice of independent voters, whether it's those Sanders voters like Joe Rogan, who liked Sanders, probably liked Obama and also liked Trump, right? We're looking for people that were willing to break the elites, break the establishment. Obama was trying to break the establishment in a kinder, gentler way.
Donald Trump came with a sledgehammer for the establishment. Hillary Clinton is the establishment, was the establishment. Joe Biden is the establishment, was the establishment.
And so, you know, I'm not sure any sort of tinkering around the edges come 2024 was going to change any of that, that ultimately neither Biden nor Clinton should have been at the top of any ticket 2016, 2020 or 2024, that it really should have been the next generation already. But Joe Biden's not going to be making that argument.
Joe Biden's got to defend his presidency and he's going to probably continue to defend his presidency. It is intriguing to me that he chose to go to the BBC first, because I think and my own reporting confirms this. Once you once Russia invaded Ukraine. Basically, the one issue that Joe Biden was focused on more than any other was NATO and was containing Russia.
Everything else was secondary for him in this presidency, whether it's his domestic agenda, whether it was the border, that every day what he was really working on, what really animated him in the morning, what really kept him up at night was the situation between Russia and Ukraine. And I think he believes his job was to save NATO, expand NATO, which he did.
And I think he believes it's the best part of his legacy. Well, I tend to agree, unless Donald Trump destroys NATO, and then ultimately he's going to share in that responsibility, right? Because his failed political leadership, you know, I've put it this way. If Joe Biden had been a better leader, I don't know if the American voters were to turn back to Donald Trump.
And maybe that's an unfair way of putting it, but ultimately He made the case that America had to move on from Donald Trump. And America decided to turn back to Donald Trump because they didn't like the governance of Joe Biden. That's ultimately on him. And we're never going to know about the various alternatives. But again, I go back.
I'm not sure nitpicking when Joe Biden gets out of the race really matters at the end of the day. I think what mattered is the fact that Joe Biden was still in the thick of all of this. ist wahrscheinlich die größere Situation da. Okay, ich denke, ich habe genug gemacht hier. Ich habe genug Schaden gemacht mit diesem Öffnen, was passiert.
Amerikanische Verabschiedung führt indirekt zu ungeheuerlichen und potenziell hostilen Situationen, die enden in Metastasisierung und machen Dinge einen Haken viel schlimmer. So sehe ich die aktuelle Situation in Indien und Pakistan. Und ich bin sicher, We're going to be hearing more from Joe Biden as he does his little defend his legacy tour over the next week or two.
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Chapter 5: What are the key issues with the U.S. healthcare system according to John Kasich?
Oh, it's my favorite conundrum. Yeah, we're we're we're more tribal than ever. And yet the parties have less influence than ever.
I don't know if they have much of any influence, to be honest with you, Chuck. And maybe that's something I want to write about. Maybe you and I can write something together about that, about how that's an interesting thing, because people don't realize that.
You know, when I was first starting out, I had to go, you know, visit the screening committee, the central committee, the committee members, the this, the that, all that stuff.
But you had to prove your bona fides. Exactly. You wanted to be a good member of the party. Yeah, yeah.
Ich sah die Partei als mein Fahrzeug, nicht mein Meister, aber es war mein Fahrzeug, um Dinge in der Leben zu tun. Um es kurz zu machen, glaube ich, dass die Leute jetzt, erstens, Angst haben, sich mit ihrer Brand oder ihrer Gruppe zu verabschieden. Because they're afraid they'll be punished politically or they won't be liked. You know, they got to go if they're going to go to a party.
They got to be in the right place, because if you're not in the right space, then you get shunned. And, you know, some people care about that. You know, it's not anything I've ever cared much about. And then there's the threat of the primaries, of course. And so if I go my own way and I start. Remember what was really crazy?
You remember when Chris Christie hugged Obama because Obama brought all that money to New Jersey after the terrible storm?
It was sort of your typical bro hug. It was a handshake hug. I might have done that with you. Hey, good to see you. It's been a while.
It meant nothing more than respect. Yeah, well, it didn't work out that well for him because people went crazy. And now you see... Remember Charlie Crist?
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Chapter 6: How does John Kasich integrate faith into his vision for governance?
Let me throw something at you. Will you accept the premise that, you know, I would say where I show the greatest faith... I have a lot of faith in the idea of democracy, and therefore it is what I would die to fight for. And I've wondered that. What are you willing to... Do you accept the idea that the idea of democracy is a form of belief and faith?
Yeah, one sort, but not the kind of faith I'm talking about.
I know you're talking about a different faith.
But faith in democracy would mean that you believe that despite any turbulence that we might see from time to time, that there's enough checks and balances in the system that democracy will be preserved.
I always say this. I trust the voters eventually. Yeah. You know, I just think if everybody has all the right information, they're going to make the right decision. Sometimes they just don't have enough information.
I would say most times that would be right, but there have been times when people's minds have been, and we don't need to get into the ravages of the ability of human beings to be incredibly cruel to others, but by and large, I agree with you.
I want to dig into something you said in my class.
And that can be protected too, by the way, by this bigger issue of faith. See, you've always been a skeptic that somebody that's been in politics could write a book like this, but I don't think so. I think now more than ever.
Well, I'll tell you this. If you wrote this book 20 years ago, the assumption would be, and you're doing it for political purposes, I would argue, you writing this book now, nobody's going to assume that you're doing this for some sort of political gain.
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Chapter 7: What are Chuck Todd's thoughts on the interview with John Kasich?
I don't know. Yeah, it's funny. Because we don't... We don't know in a year from now with whether being MAGA is good or bad in a Republican primary.
That's right.
Even though the assumption, I'm obsessed with the three, there's three senators who are getting primaried. that are all Republican, Tillis in North Carolina, Cornyn in Texas, and Cassidy in Louisiana, none of them, you would say, are MAGA. All three were sort of very much sort of what you would have said pre-Donald Trump as conventional conservative Republicans.
And I don't mean that as anything, just sort of like, you know, and will it be an asset not to be MAGA by this time one year from now? Right. If they win. Right.
What you and I love about politics is you just never know what's going to happen tomorrow.
You just never know. And there's always the human element. And the human element. Your state's going to be hosting a fascinating couple of exercises. I think Ramaswami is not going to walk into this governor's mansion. He's going to have to earn it.
Yeah, that's probably right. But again, it's right now. I really don't invest a lot of time looking at Ohio. Chuck, I'm like George W. Bush. I was there, so now I've moved on. Interesting. Do people try to drag you into it? Oh yeah, but I... How are they going to drag me, Chuck? I mean, nobody ever... I can't think of anybody that ever dragged me in politics anywhere.
So I'm just not going to be engaging in it. I mean, I love what Bush did about that. You know, he just doesn't engage. Very rarely does he say anything. And I think that's appropriate. When you're a former governor, just, you know, let somebody else be governor and let them pick the next governor. And I'm not even sure I'm going to show up at meetings with former governors. I haven't decided that.
But I can give you a handicap. I choose not to do it, but I of course... Being still in the media, I have an obligation to kind of analyze things, but I really shy away from Ohio. I will say one thing. I don't think Ohio is ruby red. Remember, when I got elected governor, every office in the state was held by a Democrat except for one. The Democrats had a horrible bench.
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Chapter 8: What listener questions does Chuck address in the 'Ask Chuck' segment?
Well, that ought to be the reason to do it. Yeah. So if you were running in 28, what do you think the biggest problem? No, I don't mean it.
What's the biggest problem that you think somebody should use a presidential... Put it this way, I just interviewed Jay Inslee and you and Inslee are going to... I admired Inslees candidacy because he decided, I don't know whether he thought he was going to win the nomination or not. And I'm not going to put...
Aber er hat gesagt, weißt du was, ich werde meine Kandidatur nutzen, um auf ein Thema zu konzentrieren. Und er hat entschieden, das Klima zu machen.
Und wir können, wir können, du weißt, wir können diskutieren, ob, aber ich vermisse jemanden, der sagt, schau, ich werde meine Kandidatur nutzen, um zu versuchen, die Aufmerksamkeit zu bringen, zu einem Thema, auf das ich wirklich denke, dass die Leute darauf konzentrieren sollten.
Also, wenn du eine Kandidatur so nutzen könntest und du dachtest, dass es das tun könnte, du warst ein, du warst ein Budgetleiter, es ist schwer, Leute über das Budget zu freuen, richtig? Du hast es manchmal so hart herausgefunden. How would you galvanize that?
What I found out was real simple. People did not care about these issues. They cared about personal contact and do you get them and do you care about them. And look, remember this. I go to New Hampshire, very low name ID, and I finish second. I beat Bush, Cruz, Rubio, all of them except Trump. I beat everybody else.
And I found there that they didn't really care about balancing budget and cutting taxes and all that. It mattered, but what they really cared about was... I think he gets me. He's willing to listen to me. He's willing to understand my problems. And then I could get in a ditch with him and give him a, come on, we can get out of this ditch. We can do well. I'll be here with you.
It's why I was reelected so overwhelmingly in Ohio after balancing budgets, but expanding Medicaid, right? I mean, it was the combination of leave no one behind and try to lift everybody up. Ich denke, die Einheit in diesem Land ist wirklich wichtig. Es wird eine besondere Stimme und eine besondere Person nehmen, um das zu tun.
Und wir sind besser, wenn wir einig sind und nicht so gut, als wenn wir dividiert sind. Und dann denke ich, es gibt ein paar Probleme, die wirklich zählen. People are worked up about the stock market, the bond market and everything else.
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