Public corruption used to be a congressman hiding $90,000 in his freezer. Now, we have a president taking "me time" to rake in $40 million from a Chinese crypto billionaire who was facing fraud charges under POTUS 46. And that's just a drop in the bucket of some of Trump's recent haul. Of course, today's FBI will do nothing about it, and his buddies at the top of the bureau are instead focusing on celebrities who are definitely not Team Trump, or a person who posted a benign beach meme about 47. Meanwhile, the FBI has been ordered to redirect resources to deportations, raising serious questions about whether counterterrorism and counterintelligence—the agency's main priorities since 9/11—are being neglected. James Comey joins Tim Miller for the weekend pod. show notes Comey's latest book, "FDR Drive" Tim's playlist Tim's interview with Karen Hao on her Sam Altman book Take advantage of Ridge’s once-a-year Memorial Day Sale and get UP TO 40% Off right now by going to https://www.Ridge.com/THEBULWARK
Chapter 1: Who is James Comey and what is his new book about?
Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to have back former director of the FBI from 2013 to 2017. He was a federal prosecutor in New York. His latest legal thriller, FDR Drive, came out this week. It's the third in a series. It is Jim Comey. What's going on, man? Great to be with you, Tim. Thanks for having me. All right.
We got to start with the shells for the rocks. Okay. I mean, you made this happen. Not me, I guess, with the Instagram posting. I get in trouble with some of my posts sometimes. So I've been there. Paint me a picture here. I know you've done a couple of interviews already. So you're with your wife. You're on a beach walk. Is it the morning? Are we in Bethany? Are we in Cape May?
You're an author now.
Paint me a scene. Yeah, we went to the coast of North Carolina. We love the Outer Banks and Barrier Islands. for the week before the book rollout. Thought it'd be a great time to get away, think about the next book and what I'm going to say. And we went for a walk on Thursday afternoon. of the week before publication, and we were walking across a big piece of beach.
And as we got towards the end of our walk, we saw in the sand some numbers and spelled that in shells. And my wife said, why would someone put their address in the sand? So we stopped, we both sort of turned our heads sideways and studied it. And I said, you know, I think it's I think it's like a political message of some kind. And she said, oh, yeah.
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Chapter 2: What happened with the seashells and social media?
And then she explained to me that when she was a server, which she did throughout school, that 86 was a restaurant term. And I said, no, I don't know that. I used to hear it as a kid. We would say 86 this place when we were at a bar or a restaurant that was dull. We want to go someplace else. So she said, oh, you should take a picture of that. I said, cool. I took a picture of it.
And then I posted on Instagram when we got back home and thought no more of it. And I thought it was just a cool way for someone to express a political view. And then I heard later in that day that people were saying it was a threat to assassinate the president. And I was like, oh, my God. I've never heard 86 used in that context. I actually still haven't.
But I thought, man, I want no part of anything like that. So I took it down immediately and posted a little statement explaining why I took it down. And that's the Shell story.
Got it. And were there other people around? I guess when you're walking down the beach, you're tall. You're kind of famous. Are people trying to chat you up on these beach walks?
No, that's the great thing. People at the beach seem to focus on The things they should focus on, the water, the waves, their families, they're not looking. I'm hardly a celeb, but they're not looking for celebs. And it was a big sort of the point area of a barrier island that's a gigantic collection of sand. And so it's not crowded at all.
Are you into kind of resistance memes generally? Are people sending you, you know, funny little Instagram posts? Are you like into Instagram culture? Are you getting reels sent to you? Or was this a one-off?
I'm not a big Instagram-er. I tend to post family stuff, political stuff, and book stuff. Last fall at the beach, I saw something I thought was cool and I posted it, which was someone had painted inside a big shell endorsement of Kamala Harris. So I remember posting that. I'm not a big poster, but when I see something that strikes me as funny or interesting, I post it.
Seashell politics is one overlap for you. There you go. Yeah, crime novels, Reinhold Niebuhr. You just have a variety of interests, and seashell political art is one of it.
You may see less of that in my future Instagram posts.
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Chapter 3: How did the Secret Service get involved with Comey's seashell post?
Because, you know, they wrote, you know, James Comey's a cuck or whatever on on Pinterest. It is not the normal state of affairs, right?
Yeah, look, if I were the investigator, I would think of it Is this a credible threat? Is this term 86 something that's been used in movies or books in the past to convey some sense of violence? And if the answer was no, which I believe it is no, I think that would have been the end of it. But I don't know in the Trump administration what kind of pressure the investigators are operating under.
I appreciated that with me, they acted like professionals. I got to imagine their lives are pretty difficult right now.
I mean, I think we have some evidence that they're under pressure to investigate people. I want to pull up here. My colleague Sam Stein posted this yesterday. So the DOJ is investigating ActBlue, which is a Democratic fundraising operation. FTC is investigating Media Matters, which is a left-wing organization. media outlet, media monitoring outlet. DHS is targeting Harvard.
The executive office is going after Dem Aligned law firms and Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor. A U.S. attorney is charging a Dem lawmaker with a crime. FBI has arrested a liberal judge. Peter Baker put it this way. Leticia James, Andrew Cuomo, LaMonica McIver, Kamala Harris, Bruce Springsteen, Beyonce, Bono, Oprah Winfrey, James Comey, good company.
Treasonous Biden aides, the city of Chicago and the Kennedy Center have all been threatened. with legal action by this administration. So, I don't think we have to read between the lines about what they're up to.
Oh, yeah. And I want to draw a line under Chris Krebs. I mean, the president issued an executive order saying he should be investigated. So, there's no doubt that the Trump administration is using the investigative power's of the executive branch to target people, to frighten people, to cow people. There's no doubt that that's going on. And that is a real problem.
I'm just saying, in my case, I can't see what happened up the chain. My interactions with the Secret Service were
professional were routine in the sense that they did it the way they would normally do it but what was behind that i don't know i mean they came in talking about how they were going to depoliticize this and look i mean you've been through this more than anybody like some of these things are tough calls right uh you know and when you're the director of the fbi or at the doj um
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Chapter 4: What is the current state of the FBI according to Comey?
that was not my history growing up. And so I don't know what it is, but again, it's, it's been a long time, right? I haven't done an interview in a year. It was last time you and I were together. So look, I, I have so enjoyed being a grandfather and an author and, and T-shirts and jeans. And frankly, after the election in November, I was thinking, I'll just withdraw.
And so I didn't plan any of this out. But in a way, it's been a useful kick in the pants to me. And that is, you can't withdraw. And I'm a little embarrassed to admit I was trying to withdraw. And the stupid seashell thing, in a way, has said, no, you got to get back out there and speak. And so I think I can talk about the rule of law. I wish I didn't have to, but we all have to right now.
There's some theories online that the seashells is part of the book promo. Now, my pushback on this is that it would be so too stupid. I would hope that you would have come up with a better plan for creating controversy, but can you rule that out?
Yes, I unequivocally rule that out. Yeah, I think I would come up with a better plan. It's honestly been a bit of a distraction. Not that I mind you talking about the seashells, but I'm supposed to be out here for my publisher talking about the book.
We're going to get to the book. We're going to get to FDR Drive. Unfortunately, we've got some other business. One of your successors here is Kash Patel. who is a conspiracy children's book author. So it was an interesting choice for FBI director. And his deputy, Dan Bengino, was one of my competitors in the podcast space. So you never know, I guess.
Maybe deputy FBI director might be in my future. We will see. It's been a few months now. How should I put this? You know, I don't have a ton of friends in the FBI. I'm sure you have a ton of former colleagues, people that worked for you, former friends. But, you know, I know people. And when the appointments were happening, there was a lot of concern, let's just say.
And I'm wondering how, you know, kind of what the buzz is and what you're what you are hearing now a few months in from folks in and around the FBI.
They went through a period of trauma. when the appointments are first made and Kash Patel arrived and people were forced out at the same time, really good career people, the people who actually know how to run the FBI were forced out. The head of the FBI's New York office, who was widely admired, was forced out for standing up and saying, basically, we're going to do our jobs the right way.
So that was a period of trauma for them. I think they've now entered a kind of numb stage where they are I'm not speculating. Folks there have told me this. They're just trying to keep their heads down and do the work and survive this, accomplish the mission, but try to do it in a way that headquarters isn't watching them. or isn't interested in them. That's sort of a big part of the Hoover era.
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Chapter 5: Are political pressures affecting the FBI's priorities?
I do love that mindset about the fact that the time can go fast. It seems so long. My child just had her last day of first grade yesterday. And I was like, man, first grade went fast. So that makes you positive. And then you think about, well, she'll be in fifth grade. grade or something when Trump is out of there. So that makes it feel long. So I don't, you know, different perspectives.
So there's been some discussion. And again, I know you're not on the inside, but from text chains or whatever, like that there's a refocus towards immigration enforcement, who knows what else, election fraud, a refocus away from public corruption, maybe counterintel in certain cases. What is your sense of that?
Like, do you have concerns that, you know, maybe some of the focus and the resources are being misapplied?
Yes, it's hard to see from the outside, but I also wonder, so how are they doing that? The Bureau, since 9-11, has had a really sophisticated process to figure out what to work on. It's called the Threat Review and Prioritization Process, TRP, where twice a year we would look across the country and say, so what are the bad things that could happen to America that we could do something about?
Who's working on it already? What would be good measurements of achievement against that threat? And given those threats, how would we rank them? And then we do the same thing in each of the 56 field offices and then come up for each field office with a separate list of these are your priorities and this is how we're going to measure success.
whether you're making progress against them, really rigorous. And we would go to Congress each year and say, you should invest in the FBI because we'll show you how we're spending our money. And we'll show you whether we're making good on our promises to spend the money this way. And I couldn't move more than $100,000 in total value.
So in equipment or people without going to Congress and getting permission to Because a law had passed that said, this is how you shall spend your money. And it was based on what we had told them we were going to spend it on. So how you move lots of people to immigration and how you do it consistent with the rigor of that prioritization process mystifies me.
Because I assume that terrorism and counterintelligence are still at the top of the stack. And so what's the rationale for the move? And what does Congress say about the move? I can't tell you.
Again, you've been in the building. I haven't. Isn't there just like a, what's the game with the ball and the cups? Can't you just say that the immigration stuff is counterintel, right? And so you had money that was supposed to be in this bucket, but you're going to read, just sort of move it the other way. I don't know. Is that too simplified?
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Chapter 6: What concerns does Comey have about the FBI's future?
You are definitely the fucking self-important one. June is Pride Month, and we're going to be live in D.C. on June 6th for World Pride for a very special live show fundraiser featuring the three of us, plus some gay special guests.
This one's a little different. Proceeds from tickets will be donated to support Andre Romero, the makeup artist who the Trump administration wrongly disappeared to El Salvador and who is currently being held in Sakat. Crooked and the Bulwark will be donating the proceeds from this fundraiser to the Immigrant Defenders Law Center.
Tickets on sale now at crooked.com slash events. These are going fast. So get yours before they're gone. Go to crooked.com slash events.
And we will see you all on June 6th.
Speaking of talking to MAGA folks, not Trump himself, you know, you have, we all do have Trump supporters in our lives. Let's just imagine you're talking to a Trump supporter and they listen to that answer. It's like, Come on, Jim Comey, like the FBI was always politicized. Trump, you know, they sent FBI agents into Trump's house at Mar-a-Lago.
And so we're just treating Democrats the way we were treated. And all the rest of it was just window dressing. What do you say to that?
I'm not sure there's much I can say if you're going to be trapped in a bubble like that. And there really are bubbles. I mean, when someone yells, fuck you at me on the street, I have to pause and say, is that a Clintonian fuck you or a Trumpian fuck you? And I look for context clues and location and inflection. And it's because people are trapped in their own bubbles.
Why were both sides angry at us? at different times is because we were doing investigations in difficult circumstances without regard to persons, without fear of favor. But if people are going to say, you know, they invaded Trump's home and leave aside the fact that they had a court-ordered search warrant and all that sort of thing, there's not much you can say to them.
And I just wish there were a way to make the bubbles go away.
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Chapter 7: How does Comey view the politicization of the FBI?
And again, I've never had to bring a case in front of a grand jury. But that seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Yeah. And talking about it as a spectacle is like it's the Met Gala. It's not about the fashion and the form. There's something deeply, substantively troubling about this. It's not a spectacle. Yeah.
I did a little more thing before we get to the game. On a podcast on Monday, or no, last Friday, my buddy Peter Hamby said nobody likes James Comey. You mentioned earlier that you get fuck yous on the street back and forth. How are you processing that? Is that something that you're, do you have therapists? Is that something that you have to deal with personally?
How do you react to something like that?
Well, because I am a devoted fan, I was watching and listening when that man said that hurtful thing about me. And I thought, yeah, you bastard. My family, at least on the surface, seems to like me a lot. My dog died a few years ago, but was very fond of me. So I, I look, I, I have to laugh. I'm married to a trained marriage and family therapist, thank God.
So I have in-house help, but I'm a happy person because I- You ever feel like you need a hug? If I need a hug, I got five kids. I got five grandchildren. I watch my grandchildren all the time. And so my life is full of hugs and people who tell me I'm awesome, but that's because I'm their pop.
Well, Peter just had his first child earlier this week. So congratulations to Peter Hamby's youngest daughter, Wren. I think the point he was making, more to the point, as much as I am concerned about your personal mental well-being, was like, there's like a sense on the MAGA right. that there is like this political wellspring of goodwill for you among the other tribe.
I think maybe a kinder way of putting the point that Peter put was like, that's not actually true. You are kind of in a no man's land politically, even though you're publicly for Kamala and et cetera. There are folks that have grievances with you across the spectrum. I think that's probably fair.
Yeah, that's right. And I knew that's what he was talking about. And he's right. I mean, there are partisans on the bell curve at both wings. Many of them have strong negative feelings for me. I can't do anything about that. And so it just is what it is. But yeah, the MAGA world is wrong that I am some influential figure, especially on the left side of the political spectrum. I'm a bulwarker.
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Chapter 8: What are Comey's thoughts on public perception and trust in the FBI?
And you're welcome here, but I've got some bad news. There are even a couple of bulwarkers that are mad at you. So, you know, we just got to do our best in this world, Jim Comey. You can only do your best and let the chips fall. To that end, here comes the game. I believe, and again, you were a prosecutor once. You're more familiar with the rule of law than me.
I do believe that in this country, we can still say the number 86. Like 86 is still something we can say, I think, without threat. Is that true for you? Do you think that's right?
I would hope so. Again, I had never heard of it used in a threatening sense. I actually still haven't seen any examples of from literature or theater or any place else where it's used as a threat. But I mean, I took the post down because I thought whether it's reasonable or not, if people are going to say that, I want no part of that. It's my Instagram account for God's sakes.
But anybody in the restaurant business knows 86 means just say we're out of the chicken or 86 that guy. He's drunk at the bar. We got to get him out of here. I'm pretty sure. And you weren't handcuffed yet. So I'm taking a risk that Eagle Ed Martin is not going to come for us. And the game here is 86 or don't 86. Jim Comey starting 86 Trump tariffs.
Should we 86 Trump's tariffs or don't 86 Trump's tariffs? We should get rid of Trump's tariffs. Are you afraid to say 86? One of the things he's targeting this morning, 50% tariff increase on Europe. So that's going to really hurt IKEA. The Swedish, have you ever been in an IKEA? Many times, yeah. Okay, the Swedish meatballs. I've eaten the little meatballs. Yeah, okay.
Are we 86ing the Swedish meatballs or are we not? I hope not.
I hope we keep the meatballs and they remain free.
Okay. The book, which we're going to get to next, take a lot of New York scenes. I've had to fly to New York a lot lately. Flying into JFK. Are we 86ing flying into JFK or are we still doing it?
I have not flown into JFK in many years. LaGuardia is Valhalla of airports, I'm told. So I would fly to LaGuardia. Valhalla's nice.
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