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The Bulwark Podcast

S2 Ep1045: Bill Kristol: A New Gilded Age

Mon, 19 May 2025

Description

No, the Trump administration is not focused on the forgotten man or bringing industrial jobs back. Instead, the real estate developer is handing out threats left and right—fresh off his Middle East trip, where he scored numerous deals with Islamofascists for himself, his family, and his cronies. And no matter what he says, the 'Palace in the Sky' is for him, once taxpayers pony up all the funds for retrofitting. Meanwhile, House Republicans are attempting to ram through their reconciliation bill—which is a huge debt bomb and is a big reason why Moody's downgraded the credit rating of the United States. Plus, Biden's cancer diagnosis, Epstein's 'absolutely crystal-clear' suicide, Trump proves Springsteen's point, and the administration gladly takes some of Mexico's worst. Bill Kristol joins Tim Miller. show notes Jonathan Cohn on the reconciliation bill's Medicaid cuts El Chapo's ex-wife and extended family at the US Southern border Springsteen in Manchester commenting on the current administration

Audio
Transcription

Chapter 1: What are the implications of Joe Biden's cancer diagnosis?

504.972 - 522.889 Bill Kristol

So all of these things that you want to talk about and focus on in your post-presidency or continue to advance in some way in foreign policy for him too. And then there's kind of like the pop cable news punditry legacy. And Shale was trying to talk about how Biden should think about

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523.61 - 547.941 Bill Kristol

just trying to advance all those things that he worked on that he had successes on, you know, like rather than trying to win this fucking tucking head battle that is a on unwinnable since Trump won and be like on certain, right? Like who knows like how things will shake out. And I do feel like there is, there's like some healthy place in the middle, you know, that we want from public servants.

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548.001 - 570.176 Bill Kristol

That's somewhere between the horrific nihilism of Rudy Giuliani and, and kind of like an obsession with legacy that becomes unhelpful, right? Or maybe even counterproductive, like at times. And it just feels so much more acute for him, maybe because of his age. I don't know why. Like maybe it feels less acute for Obama and W because there's a longer arc of post-presidency. I'm not sure.

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570.697 - 584.327 Bill Kristol

Yeah, I'm not sure either. I've always thought that the focus on legacy is both obviously humanly understandable. It can lead in a good direction, as you were sort of suggesting, in the sense that you want to do admirable things that you'll be remembered for. It can also lead to a kind of overthinking.

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584.388 - 595.856 Bill Kristol

I've seen this in other people, not just public officials, incidentally, that you don't know what's going to happen next. You don't know how things are going to be judged 10, 20, 30 years from now. Things that look great at first don't look so good, and vice versa. Harry Truman.

596.734 - 617.28 Bill Kristol

uh for example um so i i think probably this sounds kind of totally trite but i mean you know the best thing is to try to do the right thing and to take a long view of the right thing so you are thinking about future generations you're not just thinking about you know leaving office and everything falls apart a year later but the legacy thing is hard to shape and obviously hard to control

617.94 - 635.046 Bill Kristol

It's tough. It's such a downer. One other thing worth mentioning about it before we move on to the Trump news, which is downer in a different kind of way, is that Zeke Emanuel is on Morning Joe this morning. And it bears mentioning because this is just going to be part of the conversation about all of this, sadly, over the coming months.

635.066 - 654.577 Bill Kristol

But he just says pretty matter-of-factly to Scarborough, this is the type of cancer that you've had for a while. The nature of it is not such that it metastasizes in 100 days or 200 days. And so, you know, that's not necessarily to mean that there's any conspiracy surrounding this. I guess you're more suited to talk about this than me.

654.597 - 674.307 Bill Kristol

But I guess men over 70, there's certain reason not to, you know, get certain tests, particularly with regards to prostate, because there can be some over-treatment. And a lot of times it takes much longer to progress. But... Anyway, just like the blunt nature with which he said it seemed to take Scarborough off guard this morning.

Chapter 2: How does sports reflect life according to Bill Kristol?

911.78 - 933.153 Bill Kristol

Now I see they're at it again. And again, I give these sleazebags fair warning. The wonderful country of Qatar, after agreeing to invest more than one, they didn't give this gift to me. They give the gift to the country. So this is Trump threatening ABC again. I guess there's some report where they framed the Qatar plane as a gift to Trump, where Trump is saying that is false.

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933.213 - 949.684 Bill Kristol

It's a gift to the country. Scott Besant used the same spin on the shows over the weekend. It's an interesting spin for me because I don't plan on getting to ride on the plane. So I don't, you know, I'm not sure it's quite a gift to the whole country, a gift to me. I'm not sure if any of our listeners are going to get to get a ride on the palace in the sky.

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949.764 - 974.816 Bill Kristol

So it does seem kind of like a gift to Trump to me. But the interesting thing here is just how Trump's never subtle, right? And he just lays bare that giving in to him and what Disney did with this kind of ridiculous settlement over the Stephanopoulos comments about the E.J. and Carol case was very obvious at the time that that was a mistake.

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975.456 - 984.643 Bill Kristol

All of a sudden, so it was very obvious that they were not going to get anything out of Trump. Like making these sort of deals with Trump does not ever pay off in the end. He just wants more and more and more. He's just going to push and push and push.

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985.143 - 1002.076 Bill Kristol

And here's Trump just publicly basically saying that, like holding it over their head and, you know, saying that he's going to keep doing these silly lawsuits, keep attacking them, that there will be no relief from the attacks from Trump and our government just because you bend over for it.

1002.236 - 1017.305 Bill Kristol

Well, maybe there'll be relief if they just never report anything negative about Trump. I mean, you know, but I'm serious. The intimidation worked. He's going to keep doing it as long as it works. It's worked. It's worked for media companies. It's worked for businesses. It's worked for law firms. We'll see what happens to the universities.

1018.225 - 1038.571 Bill Kristol

It's worked, God knows, for the Republican Party and with Congress. And that's why we're in such bad shape, though. I mean, he is in his own cunning and insane and narcissistic way. You know, he knows that the levers of power matter. And people could snicker at him. And incidentally, Qatar, which gave him the plane, did get rewarded a little bit by him calling it, what did he call it in the tweet?

1038.591 - 1055.441 Bill Kristol

A wonderful country. Suddenly, Qatar is a really fantastic place. I wasn't aware of that. That was the conventional view here in America for this country, which hosts Hamas's leaders and so forth. But they're getting something, at least in the very short term. We'll see how much more they have to pay down the road. So it's easy for other people to

1056.261 - 1074.346 Bill Kristol

sort of snicker at the way he goes about being a mob boss but of course mob bosses they usually get their comeuppance ultimately but if you watch like american movies you know that but i don't know the real world they could do okay for a fair amount of time unfortunately yeah highly respected country cutter highly respected country it's very much i had noticed yeah

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