The administration admits it mistakenly sent a Maryland father with protected status to the Salvadoran penal colony—but at the same time, it says the federal courts have no jurisdiction over him because he is now in a foreign country. If some of us have no due process, that opens the door to none of us having due process. Meanwhile, Trump's administration seems hellbent on destroying the U.S.-led world order, Marco Rubio is acting very un-American, and we actually do have long-standing protocols for how a president's national security team should discuss a military strike. Plus, Mother Jones reporters show the absurdity of ICE's assertions about migrant gang membership. Former National Security Adviser Susan Rice, along with Noah Lanard and Isabela Dias, join Tim Miller. show notes Atlantic piece on the Maryland father sent to El Salvador Tim's Bulwark Take on ICE's 'mistaken' deportation Mother Jones on the shoddy tattoo evidence being used to disappear migrants
Chapter 1: What happened with the Maryland father deported to El Salvador?
Last night there was an Atlantic story, I'm sure many of you have probably seen, that I'm going to get into more here in a second, about Kilmore Abrego Garcia. He's a man in Maryland, father of two. His five-year-old has a severe disability, autism, he can't speak. He's been here since he was 16 years old. He's fleeing the gangs in El Salvador.
Somehow we lumped him in with the Venezuelans and claimed he was trended to Aragua and sent him back to...
El Salvador to this gulag and the story is awful but what the Atlantic reported is that it was a mistake and the government actually in a court filing admitted that it was a mistake that this was not a person that was meant to be sent there but said that we can't do anything now because he's in El Salvador's custody. So I fired off a rage take about that at about 1 a.m.
last night that you can go listen to over on YouTube or on the Bulwark Takes podcast feed. And so I just want kind of programming note on that. And then I want to expand on my points.
The Bulwark Takes feed, like I've had some when we were at our event in Phoenix and people were really excited about it, loving it because they kind of want to hear our reaction to all the horrors as they are happening. I've heard from other people that it's like I can't live like this and hear about this stuff every minute. I got to tell you, I get it. I totally understand on all counts of this.
And, you know, we're here. I'm here. I'm serving y'all. So if we're doing stuff that isn't serving you, you don't don't let take a break, like take a day off, take a couple days off. Whatever. And there's some people that want the quick takes because that's all they have time for, right? Some people just really want to know what's happening minute by minute. I get that.
Others just, you know, want to listen to me on their daily constitutional. Whatever works for you, I think that you should be... um sicherzustellen, dass dies dir und deinen Bedürfnissen dient. Ich unterstütze das hundertprozentig und wenn es etwas gibt, das wir besser machen können, dann lasst es mich wissen.
Mein Versuch, meine Bedürfnisse zu dienen, ich habe das gesagt, ich denke, in der ersten Podcast mit JVL und Sarah nach Trump 1 war, dass die einzige Art, mit der ich mit diesem nächsten vier Jahren von Nonsens zu tun habe, ist, dass ich mich um was ich kümmere. Ja, genau. going to be the determining factor on who wins the Colorado 7th District next year in November in 16 months.
I think that my obligations are higher than that. And so to that point, all we have in this world is like our ability to control our own choices and to try to influence things in the way that we can and either in our communities or using our platforms, etc. And I'm going to do that no matter what. Ich glaube, das ist politisch, was auch immer, nützlich. Ich obsesioniere mich über das gerade.
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Chapter 2: Why is the administration's deportation policy under scrutiny?
And a majority of Americans said they thought that the administration is making many or some mistakes in its deportations. So, this goes back to what we were talking about with Bill yesterday, Joe Rogan. I don't know. I mean, I have a pretty low view of my fellow Americans for putting this fucking moron back into the White House again.
But I don't have such a low view as to think that we cannot convince people that it's bad to send gay makeup artists to a torture dungeon in another fucking country with no due process and no ability to appeal. I don't know. I don't know that we're quite there yet as far as the depravity of our neighbors and our fellow Americans. So that was a little bit of good news.
The bad news is that this administration isn't doing anything about Kilmar Abrego Garcia. They shook him down when he's going to pick up his child from his mother-in-law's house, the kid's grandmother's house. They cuffed him. They sent him on this plane to San Salvador and then on a bus and then to this terrorist prison. He hasn't been able to contact his lawyers.
He hasn't been able to contact his family. It is just an unbelievable nightmare. It's an unimaginable nightmare. You think like to be him or to be a spouse, having your spouse just be snatched off the street when they've done nothing wrong. He had no criminal record here. The thing that you see that the administration is now saying is that, A, they don't have jurisdiction, which is such bullshit.
We're paying El Salvador to hold these guys. So I think we have jurisdiction. That'd be like me hiring a babysitter to watch my daughter. And then if something bad happens, we'd be like, I have no jurisdiction over what happens there. It's like, what are you talking about? We are paying for them to hold these people. So we do have jurisdiction. But that's what they're saying.
And the other thing they're saying is that this person might not have been trained to Aragua. Because remember, we did the Alien Enemies Act because we're at war, supposedly, with trained to Aragua. That's why we can go around the Constitution to invoke these extreme measures, because this is a supposed war that we're in with this Nicaraguan gang, excuse me, Venezuelan gang.
They don't even claim that this guy is in that gang. They do claim that he was a member of MS-13, based on some 2019 filing where another person My comment is, according to the court document you apparently didn't read, he was a convicted MS-13 gang member with no legal right to be here.
My further comment is that it's gross to get fired up about gang members getting deported while ignoring citizens they victimized. This guy didn't fucking victimize anybody. He is not a criminal. J.D. Vance might really have come to admire Putin and despise Putin. Our European friends, as they said in that text message with Pete Hegseth.
But in liberal democracies, in free countries, there is a difference between accusation and conviction. When J.D. says that he was a convicted MS-13 gang member, I don't even know what that means. We don't convict people for being gang members. But he hasn't been convicted of anything. The judge gave him protected status during the Trump-1-Administration.
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Chapter 3: How does Susan Rice view the current US foreign policy?
Vance revealed in this Signal text chain to be more interested in punishing our European allies than in taking military action against Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen who are attacking international shipping and American warships. So, I don't know exactly where they're coming from with respect to Iran. It seems as incoherent as much of the rest of their policy.
Ja, es ist interessant, dass du das mit dem JD bringst, weil das ist, wo ich nächstes Mal gehen werde. Wenn du dich an diese Signal-Text-Chain schaust, waren es die Vizepräsidenten, die substanzielle Politik-Argumente, aufgrund von, wie es scheint, einem tiefen persönlichen Verleumdung für unsere europäischen Allies, die er und der Staatssekretär der Verteidigung hatten.
Und war das die Sache, die dir am meisten von der echten Substanz des Text-Exchanges herausgekommen ist?
That was certainly one of the things that jumped out at me about the substance of the tax exchange. But it seemed to be a view shared not only by J.D. Vance and the Secretary of Defense, but Stephen Miller on behalf of the President and Michael Walz. The notion that our efforts to ensure freedom of navigation, which the United States has upheld globally since the 18th century,
ist somehow merely a favor to our European partners that needs to be repaid in some extortionary fashion. It's extraordinary in itself and very simple-minded and transactional and counter to US national security interests. We have the United States as a major global player, Blue Water Navy, and reliant on Vielen Dank.
Mind you, no evidence that any European country had asked the United States to take military action at that time in place against the Houthis. But nonetheless, we're supposed to extort them for payment.
Crazy. I want to get into Europe more, but just the biggest picture on the text chain. You had Walt's job at one point. There's a new story out there. Just a little bit ago about, I guess, two U.S.
officials have said that Waltz created and hosted multiple other sensitive national security conversations on Signal with cabinet members, including separate threads on how to broker peace between Russia and Ukraine, as well as other military operations. And just like the existence of this is crazy.
Having been in that chair, just talk about why this is just so outside the norm and what struck you about it.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of the 'Signalgate' scandal?
Ja, genau.
It is recklessness over and over again. I mean, his wife undoubtedly does not have a security clearance. If she did, it would be completely unnecessary and inappropriate. And even for people that have security clearances and discussing sensitive information with foreign counterparts, they need to have what we call a need to know.
You don't just get to have access to information even when you have a clearance. You have to have... for the execution of your job a need to know that information. So it is impossible for me anyway to conjure a rationale for his wife, my husband or anybody else's spouse or partner to be in a sensitive meeting that's not a social occasion with foreign counterparts.
If it were a social occasion, that's a different situation. That doesn't sound like what this was.
I want to get back to Marco, who you referenced, Secretary of State. Your former colleague Ben Rhodes wrote this. I thought he summed it up pretty well.
The Rubio legacy to date, he's ended USAID, democracy funding, he's terminated Radio Marti, which is a Cuban radio station that was funded in part by USAID, mass deportation of Cubans and Venezuelans, anti-free speech policies that mirror the Cuban Communist Party, Great Investment, Florida Hardliners. It is pretty remarkable. I don't know.
Rubio had to be a type of person that you had some overlap with policy-wise when you were back in the Obama administration, certainly not across the board, but on some of these types of issues, USAID, people fleeing communism, rights of people fleeing communism. What do you make of just a total abdication of all of those past views from the Secretary of State?
Well, you also neglected to mention the rounding up and deportation without due process of Venezuelans, Haitians and others sent to some gulag in El Salvador and then onward in some cases directly back to Venezuela. And now the apparent rounding up of a Russian here legally aber jetzt wahrscheinlich zurück nach Russland verabschiedet wird, weil er die Krieg mit der Ukraine verteidigt hat.
Es ist ein sehr anderer Marco Rubio, um es so zu sagen, als derjenige, mit dem wir uns alle vorher bekannt waren. Und ich kann nicht in seinen Kopf oder seine Motivationen hineingehen, aber es scheint sicherlich ein 180 von dort, wo er war. Und And where he's been, frankly, all his career.
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Chapter 5: How should national security decisions be handled?
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Chapter 6: What are the consequences of improper handling of national security information?
Das ist ziemlich die Cover für ein Gangmitglied, du weißt, volunteering at a youth autism, you know, swimming meet camp. He was the one that you guys specifically said, I guess you said Hernandez spoke to Alvarado, was that Hernandez's boss? Yes, that's right, yeah.
Yeah, so his boss spoke to him before he was sent to El Salvador and he said, there are 90 of us here, we all have tattoos, we are all detained for the same reasons, from what they told me, we are all going to be deported. So that's like a first person statement. Das war das, was sie ihnen sagten. Diese Tattoos waren der Grund, warum sie nach El Salvador gebracht wurden. Das war die Grundlage.
Das war die zweite Zeit, dass das passiert ist. Das ist, warum Hernandez so wichtig ist. Er ist US-Besitzer. Er lebt in Venezuela. Er lebt in den USA seit drei Dekaden. Er konnte Neri in Gefängnis besuchen, so wie viele Familien in Venezuela das nicht können. Er besuchte Neri einen Tag später, als er in Gefängnis war. Er wurde am 5. Februar verhaftet.
Sie kamen aus seinem Wohnzimmer und sagten, Nery Alvarado, wir suchen dich. Sie brachten ihn in die Dallas-Field-Office und da sagten sie, weißt du, warum du hier bist? Und laut Hernandez sagten sie, wir suchen Leute mit Tattoos, Venezuelaner mit Tattoos. Wir wissen, du hast sie. Warum erklärst du sie nicht? Er erklärte seine Tattoos und wie jede normale Person, sagte er,
Apparently, a Puerto Rican ICE agent said, you know, you're good, but why don't you go down the hall and just like check maybe with my supervisor or another ICE agent. And for reasons that remain unclear to me, they ended up hauling him into detention anyway, even though an ICE agent said, yeah, you don't have anything to do with Tren de Aragua.
Es gibt eine tolle Berichterstattung darüber im Washington Post und anderswo. Es scheint, dass viele von diesen venezuelischen Männern für Eisbeschränkungen gebeten wurden. Irgendwann im lateinsten Januar und dann im Februar haben sie ihre Routine-Eisbeschränkungen gekriegt. Sie waren überrascht über ihre Tattoos.
Wie wir in unserem Buch zeigen, haben wir viele von ihnen, die meisten von ihnen, ohne einen Tattoos. relevant as a signal of any type of criminal activity or tied to gang affiliation.
You lead the story with another example of Arturo Trejo. Arturo Suarez Trejo. He has a three month old child and is a singer. I guess you spoke to his wife and also a similar situation where no criminal record, this is all based on the tattoos. Talk about that conversation.
Ja, das haben wir von einem venezuelischen News-Anwalt, El Estimulo, kennengelernt und mit dem älteren Bruder Nelson und Natalie getroffen. Letztes Jahr, er und seine Frau Natalie wollten zusammen in die Vereinigten Staaten gehen. Sie bemerkten, dass sie krank war und ziemlich weit in unsere Krankheit ging.
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