The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1007: Jeffrey Goldberg and Peter Wehner: What's Going on with Our National Security?
25 Mar 2025
Senior members of Trump's Cabinet got caught sharing attack plans—down to details of who they were planning to kill, and with what kind of weapons, while also wishing Godspeed to our soldiers—and now they'll say anything to get out of the jam they put themselves in. Also, JD Vance openly questioned the judgement of the president in front of those very senior Cabinet members. Meanwhile, vengeance has long been a defining feature of Trump, but the habits of his heart have also infected his supporters. And they've become a moral freak show cheering on deportations of families and starving Africans. Jeff Goldberg and Pete Wehner join Tim Miller. show notes Jeff's original scoop on getting texted war plans (gifted) Pete's piece on Trump's insatiable appetite for revenge Trump's 1992 interview with Charlie Rose
Full Episode
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Hello and welcome to the Bulwark Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We've got an Atlantic double bill today. First up, the head boss, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, host of Washington Week on PBS, and author of The Biggest Story in quite a while. The Trump team accidentally texted me its war plans. It's Jeffrey Goldberg. How are you doing, Jeff?
I'm good. Thanks for having me.
I guess my first note here on the outline is, holy fuck. I want to know, just talk us through, you do this a little bit in the story, but where were you when the signal message from Mike Waltz, the National Security Advisor, came through and walked me through how you kind of processed what was happening as he invited the entire National Security Team onto the group text with you? Yeah.
Quite randomly, I was in Salzburg, Austria. Let's put that aside.
Das 60.
Jahrhundert von The Sound of Music, das ist alles, was ich sagen kann. Aber ich war in Salzburg, er hat mich eingeladen, mit ihm zu sprechen. Ich habe ihn, glaube ich, zweimal in meinem Leben getroffen, nicht letztes Jahr, wahrscheinlich ein paar Jahre zuvor.
Aber es hat mich nicht als verrückt, ich bin der National-Security-Advisor, ich bin der Editor von einem Magazin, ich lese über National-Security. Wir stimmen wahrscheinlich auch auf viele Dinge zu. Zumindest alle, Mike. Ja. Yeah, well, that's the issue. Marco too, right?
You know, I assume that things that come over the transom are fake, but there's no harm in saying to Mike Waltz, yeah, sure, here's my, I accept your message request and I'll find out if it's the real Mike Waltz or not. That happens. A couple of days later, I'm added to the Signal Chat Houthi PC small group with a bunch of names, most of which are spelled out. Some are not.
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