In this episode, Bryce interviews Pastor Jonathan Pokluda on Dating as a Christian.
Chapter 1: What exciting event is happening on May 18th?
I have a huge announcement before you guys continue to watch this episode of the podcast. Guys, May 18th, we are doing our second live podcast show in my home state, Atlanta, Georgia. We're going to be at the Cobb Energy Center May 18th for worship and a powerful word. Guys, I am so excited to be back in the same city that God took me from death
to life if you guys want to come out to the hometown live podcast show may 18th go to ticket master and search up bryce crawford and get your tickets today guys i'm looking forward to seeing you guys on may 18th go to ticket master search bryce crawford get your tickets to the live podcast show may 18th love you guys now enjoy the episode what's going on guys welcome back to another episode of the bryce crawford podcast i'm bryson today i'm with an awesome guest uh
Chapter 2: Who is Jonathan Pokluda and why is he featured in this episode?
Pastor, Father, I would call you mentor of mine, Jonathan Picluda. How are you doing?
Dude, pumped to be here, man. Thanks for having me over.
Yeah, thanks for coming. Thanks for making the flight down. Dude, love it.
Absolutely. Thanks for introducing me to Moses.
Yeah, he's the best.
He likes licking your ears. Yeah, man. I just got attacked by a miniature golden doodle.
He loves you. That's rare. He loves people, but he really loves you.
Maybe I have syrup in my ears or something. He was going to town.
He likes that. Yeah, man. Well, I'm excited about today's episode. I've never done an episode on the topic of dating and what it means to be a Christian and finding a significant other, spouse, things like that. And so I'm super pumped to just pick your brand. I'm going to try to ask as many questions across the spectrum of dating as possible. Yeah.
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Chapter 3: What does it mean to be equally yoked in a Christian relationship?
Whatever the general public would say about it, Christianity, what Christianity says about it, how to go about it. I think I think one of the first questions on my heart is so many people always wonder what it means to be equally yoked.
Yeah.
What what what does it mean to be equally yoked in a relationship that's romantic?
yeah so second corinthians 6 14 is where that comes from says do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers and so sometimes people are like do we have to be the same level of spiritual maturity um do we have to both be calvinist or do we have to both be reformed or we have to both be arminian or do we have to both be baptist or methodist or catholic what what is that is that what that means and in the context of the scripture is really that a believer would um
marry a believer the context or even do business with the believer i can tell you uh one time pre-ministry i had went in uh into business with somebody who was not a christian they were a good person they were a moral person but they were not a christian and it was going well until it wasn't and all of a sudden he stopped answering my phone calls and ran off with a bunch of money and i never heard from him again and i i thought about that scripture and then bryce i would just say
Some of the most difficult situations I'm in pastorally, so I'm a pastor, so much of what I do is pastoral care, or you would say biblical counseling. And some of the most difficult situations I'm in are someone in a marriage
where they were a Christian, but they married someone who wasn't a Christian, and they either didn't see that as important or they hoped that they would change post-marriage. You do not want to marry potential, meaning you don't want to marry someone hoping that they become someone else. That's a recipe for disaster. You want to marry them understanding their flaws,
understanding their fallen nature, understanding their wiring and their personality, and say, hey, they would be a great match for me. We complement each other well, and we're gonna do ministry together for the rest of our life. We're going to have children and raise those children to know God. We're gonna disciple our community, disciple in our home. And so we would make great partners.
So really what a Christian marriage is, It's a strengthening of ministry. You're like looking for a ministry partner. And so if you marry a non-believer, so much of the ministry that you're doing is going to be to them. And it's a really hard life. And the scripture speaks specifically to this in 1 Peter 3.
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Chapter 4: Is physical attraction important in Christian dating?
And so if you're looking for a spouse, I would say consider your hand because this is helpful to me. You want to make sure you're going the same direction, okay? That's the 2 Corinthians 6, 14, to not be unequally yoked. Okay, so we're going the same direction. We're both loving God. We're chasing hard after God.
Two, this finger, this is something that you can communicate pretty dramatically with in a gesture in our culture. And so you can think about that as communication, okay? Do we communicate? Do we speak a common language? Do we understand each other? This finger, your ring finger, that's commitment. Are we committed? Are they in and out of relationships?
Are they dating a different girl on Tuesday than on Wednesday? Do they understand what commitment is? This, your opposable thumb, you gotta have your thumb to pick something up. Like without your thumb, these fingers aren't as helpful. So you have to have somebody that compliments you. That they're strong where you're weak. They're weak where you're strong. You guys together make a great team.
That's your thumb. And then your pinky, that's physical attraction. That's pink, that's chemistry. I would say this is the one that we put in first place. I'd say it has a place, it's just not first place. And in fact, if you gotta lose a finger, If I said, hey, right now, the only way you're going to live is if I get to take off a finger, that'd be weird.
But if I did say that, you're probably going to say, go ahead and take the pinky. That's the one that's the least important of the five. And what we've done is we've taken that one in fifth place and we put it in first place.
And the reason we've done that is because I think pornography, it's rewired our brains in such a way that that guys are trying to find the Mother Teresa missionary, you know, serves at her church, but looks like a porn star. And And I don't think we really understand how far porn has carried us and set us up for failure. That guys are discontent. They're afraid to commit. They're fearful.
They're not asking girls out. They're hiding behind screens. And I think it's really created quite a pretty desperate dating landscape today.
Dang. I never even thought about porn having that much damage on people. But then, you know, I remember when I was in the sixth grade, I got exploited to pornography on a beach. It was like through a meme. But that was my introduction to pornography and then battled an addiction to pornography.
And then right when I became a Christian, it was weird because there's some things that have stopped cold turkey and some things that haven't. That was actually one of the things that stopped cold turkey the moment I became a Christian.
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Chapter 5: How does pornography impact modern dating?
I bought vehicles that were involved in big accidents or terrible wrecks or flooding or whatever it is. But I only buy them after they've been on the road for a length of time and been running well. And so when their repentance is as notorious as their rebellion, then I think, you know, they're dateable.
Whoa, I like that. I've never really thought about it that way. Yeah, because I just think about that. How do you do it? I guess something that I struggle with is because I know myself, you know yourself better than yourself. I don't know if we're just our biggest enemies and our biggest battle is our brain. Maybe I'm just too hard on myself.
But how can I have a good, how can we as people have a good, healthy perspective of us acknowledging and being humble when we're wrong, but also not giving ourselves a hard time? Because then there might be someone on the other side of this listening that's like, dang, I'm the guy with the salvage title, the baggage, and then the self-worth, self-reflection on themselves.
Not about how they view the other person. Their self-reflection is, well, I'm not good enough for this. I don't deserve it. How do we have a healthy perspective of ourselves in the midst of our brokenness?
Yeah, I think a bigger problem is that people are sitting in their brokenness, meaning I'm not healed from pornography. I'm continuing like a dog just vomit to give in to pornography. And I would say, man, you got to get well, you got to find freedom. Now, if you're in this place where you're just struggling to forgive yourself, I would say stop because God has forgiven you.
He says in 2 Corinthians 5, 19, he's no longer counting your sins against you. In Romans 8, 1, it says, therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And Malachi says that he delights to show you mercy. Like what God does for fun is he shows people mercy. It's what God does for fun. It's like what he enjoys doing. And so it seems that God loves, loves, loves people.
to write a story of redemption on people who've made really bad decisions. Genesis 50, 20, what the enemy's meant for evil, God uses for our good. Romans 8, 28, we know that in all things, God is working together for the good of those who love him, who've been called according to his purpose. And so God flips the script. He takes the bad and he uses it for good when we bring it to him.
We're like, hey, we need help. Can you take this? He'll use your story. He'll take your mess and make it your message and even your ministry if you'll let him. So don't sit in shame because that's Satan. Satan will use shame. You know, we talked about this, but I've been studying spiritual warfare for the past three years.
And one of the biggest tools that the enemy uses is shame to keep us in that. And so, man, I would say to guys, if you desire marriage, listen, guys, like lean in on this. If you're a man right now listening, you're of age to be married and you desire marriage, then I would say ask out the godliest woman you know. and shoot your shot and give it a chance.
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Chapter 6: How can you discern genuine character in a partner?
a guy was talking on a radio show and he was talking about his his girlfriend and he said she started taking dates with other guys meaning she was sleeping with other men and that's where the word entered the english language dating okay as a euphemism for prostitution to go on a date
meant to exchange sexual favors for an experience now consider how we date in 2025 the world they exchange sexual experience sexual favors for an experience like show me a good time take me to a great dinner let's go on an incredible vacation and then let's get a great hotel room and and I'll show you a good time that's really how a lot of the world thinks about dating
And so I'm not trying to kiss it goodbye, but I do think we need to redeem it. And, and what dating needs to be for believers is a pathway to a promise. And so I would say, you know, you have a girlfriend. Yeah. I would say, what do you need to find out about her to determine if she would be a great wife?
Hmm. I don't even know. The times I spend with her are amazing. And I love seeing her heart and I love seeing her character. And I also love the downtime moments where it's just like we're laughing about stupid stuff. Or like it's silly and things like that. I guess for me personally, not that we haven't had these conversations, but like what... Kind of almost like what you proposed earlier.
I feel like the biggest thing for me is what are you attracted to about me the most? And what am I attracted to you about the most? I think that's a really healthy conversation to have.
think it's a very good question to consider for people who are dating is what do i need to find out about them to determine if they would be a suitable spouse what is the gap and then how do i intentionally find that out quickly and effectively because i'll be honest with you as someone who's been single as someone who's dated and someone who's been married
dating is the worst of the three singleness awesome you can go places do things you can leverage it for the kingdom first first corinthians 7 you know you're you're concerned about the affairs the kingdom paul writes that he's plagiarizing matthew 19 he says jesus says in matthew 19 there are some who are celibate for the sake of the kingdom not everyone who can accept it but those who can should
Like singleness is awesome. Marriage, amazing. You can sleep in the same bed. You can snuggle. You can have sex. You can be intimate. You can literally create life and children and raise those children to know God and sit at the breakfast table and make memories on family vacation. It's awesome. Singleness, awesome. Marriage, awesome. Dating, not so awesome.
It's like I gotta be around someone that I'm really attracted to, but I can't really touch them in a way that causes their body to begin to prepare for sex, because that wouldn't be loving, and so I'm trying to restrain this constantly, but I have these strong feelings for them, but there's all these baked in insecurities, because I don't know if they feel the same way about me all the time, and we just kind of go through these emotional highs and lows.
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Chapter 7: What should men and women look for in a godly partner?
you know how can I how can I serve my lover and and make sure that she is cared for and she feels safe and protected and um and and uh you know I'm gentle and I'm not trying to be weird now I know that people are going to take that out of context and make a meme about me but
i wasn't trying to be weird either asking it but i know people at people genuinely are like yeah giving likes like selflessness uh i always tell like single friends i'm like don't live alone like if you desire marriage don't live alone because idiosyncrasies grow in isolation and um and marriage is really a long act of selflessly serving somebody for the rest of your life
And it's beautiful and it's great and it's awesome. Um, and it, but it's hard and it's work and, um, and there's some real challenges there. And so one of the best ways to prepare for marriage is have roommates, dysfunctional roommates that don't do the dishes, you know, those kinds of roommates that will prepare you for marriage.
In marriage, can the bedroom become sinful?
Sure. And how? Yeah, I think when you have no regard for your spouse's safety, when you try to bring in images outside the marriage, and so some people are like, oh, well, we'll look at porn together. It's like that is... That is so sinful and evil and Satan receives it as worship. Satan receives pornography as worship. You can quote me on that. Yeah, I don't mean to be prideful when I say that.
I've been so personally hurt by pornography. I brought so much pain on myself and others with that that I think the enemy is glorified in it. If you push your spouse to do something that they're not comfortable doing, it's not a sales pitch. It's a time of serving them and caring for them. And that's really what I mean.
I think so often there's so many husbands that wanna live out all their pornographic fantasies in marriage and that's not what it's about. It's about serving your spouse.
Yeah. That, that danger factor that you brought up with of like, Oh, erotic experience could be, you know, sleeping with your neighbor's significant other or outside of marriage. It reminded me, I think like Proverbs four or five or six, when it's like writing about the adulterous woman, like prepping the bed, like fine linen and the scent and, and, and don't worry, my husband's gone.
Like this is going to be an elaborate experience. That's literally what my brain thinks about. Um, How can men or women love their significant other without giving their significant other power over them?
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Chapter 8: Why is there no dating advice in the Bible?
Yeah, I would just say, if you're not a follower of Jesus, I'm not here to give you dating lessons. Find Jesus and pursue Him. Figure out if He's true. I'm not looking to change your behavior, but to influence your belief. If you are a follower of Jesus, I think what dating looks like is really a sweet friendship of a guy and a man and a woman saying, hey, let's pursue Christ together.
Tommy Nelson talks about it like you're running a race. And it's like, man, I'm just pursuing Jesus. I'm running hard after Jesus. I'm running for Jesus. I'm going on this mission trip. I'm serving at my church. I'm I'm going to church on Sundays. I'm going to recovery night, discipleship night. I'm serving, I'm doing these things.
And as I'm running this race, I look beside me and I notice that, man, there's this woman beside me often as I'm running this race. She's running hard after Jesus too. And at some point, I'm like, hey, do you want to continue to run with me? You want to keep running this race together for the rest of our lives? You do? Okay, great. And I think that's dating into marriage.
What it looks like is you're just, you're the greatest lover of your soul is Jesus Christ. You're pursuing him and you guys are pursuing him together. And when you realize like, Hey, I like pursuing this guy. You like pursuing this guy. Let's pursue this guy together. That that's, that's what dating looks like. And so if we learn from Hollywood, it's like, Oh my gosh, you're amazing. You're hot.
You're so attractive. I can't stop thinking about you. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. and it's all of that, and you just give your heart away, and then you break up, and then you're, like the average breakup is like going through divorce today.
It's like the way that we date, we're like so emotionally invested, and then we have to undo that and rip a heart away from them, you know, and it's like our hearts weren't made for that, man. Like no wonder anxiety's so high, no wonder depression's so high. Our hearts weren't made to, like our hearts were really made to be given away once, right?
And then and then and then maybe we experience grief through death and then maybe remarriage. But our hearts were not made to be given away over and over and over again. So we have to consider our biological makeup, like how God, the creator of the heavens, the earth designed us and literally like how he made us. And so that's why I'm just not a big fan of dating like you're married.
I'm a fan of dating to get married quickly and efficiently and effectively as possible.
Yeah, I like that. One thing I wanted to close with is... You're about your new book. I want to talk about it because I love you. It's about spiritual warfare. And I think I think the enemy attacks relationships the same way attacks our mind. Same thing. He attacks everything. You said you researched three years on spiritual warfare. Yeah.
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