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The Bidding War

Fri, 12 Jul 2024

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A story about a strange auction for perhaps the most valuable piece of paper in America. This summer we’re publishing some of our favorite episodes from our previous series, Crypto Island. Support the show over at searchengine.show! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Transcription

0.57 - 24.273 PJ Vogt

Hi, search engine listeners. This is PJ Vogt. I hope you're having a cool summer. Over the next four weeks, I want to take you back in time to a very strange moment in our very recent history. The year was 2022. The prices of various cryptocurrencies had smashed through the ozone layer. And if you were trying to figure out what was going on and you went online, you'd encounter two kinds of people.

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25.208 - 43.553 PJ Vogt

Either a person claiming to have gotten rich off crypto, telling you to buy now before it was too late. Or one of the people who overnight had amassed large online followings by relentlessly explaining how all of this was a farce. A bunch of planet-burning scammers trying to separate you from your money with useless Ponzi technology.

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44.741 - 66.986 PJ Vogt

As a person who just wanted to understand what was happening and why, I found the internet even less useful than usual. So we decided to do our own research. I didn't want to know if crypto was good or bad. I mean, it was internet money. What I wanted to know was why this was happening. What, if anything, it meant for a society to suddenly both worship and feud over internet money.

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68.288 - 89.133 PJ Vogt

The result was a nine-part series called Crypto Island. That mini-series was also the precursor to Search Engine, where we found the voice for this show. We tried to strengthen our capacity to be curious and open-minded in the face of a polarizing topic. And in the process, we found some great stories. Classic internet capers in a lysergic new chapter of life online.

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89.949 - 110.803 PJ Vogt

We investigated NFT kidnappings, met apocalyptic crypto believers preparing for the next world war. We wound up at one point on a melting glacier in Greenland. More adventures, honestly, than I'd planned for. So this month, while we work on season two of Search Engine, we're going to play you our favorite four episodes of Crypto Island. I love these stories. I'm so happy to share them with you.

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111.284 - 120.32 PJ Vogt

Please enjoy this first one, which takes place fully inside a Sotheby's auction, where two parties are fighting to own this nation's founding document. That's after some ads.

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122.358 - 123.338 Advertisement Voice 1

First, the bad news.

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123.878 - 144.924 Advertisement Voice 1

SAP Business AI won't help you generate cubist versions of your family's holiday photos, but it will help you understand which supplier is best to help you roll out your plant-based packaging in Southeast Asia, identify the training your junior project manager needs to rise up the ranks, and automate repetitive tasks while you focus on big innovations so you can be ready for the next opportunity.

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145.324 - 150.265 Advertisement Voice 1

Revolutionary technology, real-world results. That's SAP Business AI.

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152.714 - 154.895 PJ Vogt

Chapter One, American History.

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155.855 - 169.799 Quig Bruning

Good evening from Sotheby's, New York. I'm Quig Bruning, and tonight I'll be your auctioneer for a very special evening sale for one of the rarest and most prized pieces of American history, a first printing of the United States Constitution dating to 1787.

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172.233 - 186.2 PJ Vogt

This was the scene one evening last November in Manhattan. Sotheby's, the auction house, was selling an actual printed copy of the U.S. Constitution. By the end of the night, it would be the most expensive document ever auctioned, beating out the Magna Carta and Leonardo da Vinci's journal.

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186.681 - 198.787 Quig Bruning

Needing a little introduction on its importance, the United States Constitution is the longest continuing charter of government in the world and the product of a revolution in political thought, at least as important and far-reaching as the fight for American independence.

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200.649 - 222.705 PJ Vogt

235 years ago, when the Constitution was originally written, it was penned by an engrosser in Philly named Jacob Chalice. He printed on animal skin, either calf, sheep, or goat, and he was paid the equivalent of about $30 in Pennsylvania continental currency. Afterwards, 500 typeset copies were made, printed for $420. That means original copies of the Constitution went for $1.19.

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225.157 - 243.763 PJ Vogt

At the time, there's no evidence that these 500 copies were considered especially valuable as artifacts. They were about as disposable as the pamphlet a salesman presses into your hand that you take home to your family to decide whether or not you're going to buy a new fridge. Important, informational, not yet historic. And so the copies were mostly not preserved.

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244.444 - 253.847 PJ Vogt

Of the original 500, a handful remain. Most are in libraries. Two are in private hands. And this was one of them. It was a very, very rare piece of paper for sale.

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254.451 - 264.495 Quig Bruning

With only 13 copies known to exist today in this first printing and only one other available for private ownership, the printing of the Constitution is one of the most significant historical documents ever offered at auction.

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266.496 - 285.288 PJ Vogt

So in 1787, someone killed an animal, someone else lettered words onto its skin, Copies were made. And at the time, those physical artifacts hadn't been considered especially valuable. But later that year, a country had been born. Five years after that, that country had invented the dollar. And then a lot of other things happened, some of which you've been alive for.

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285.689 - 305.231 PJ Vogt

And now, a piece of paper was for sale in an auction house in a place called Manhattan, being broadcast live on a website called YouTube. And two mysterious bidders, representing two different ideas about what should happen next in our very strange country, were about to fight over a scrap of paper they'd both decided was valuable. This is a story about one of those bidders.

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307.631 - 321.655 News Anchor

Sotheby's auctioning off a copy of the U.S. Constitution on Thursday, and a group of crypto investors won in. The organization, called ConstitutionDAO, is raising money using a digital crypto wallet in hopes of securing the winning bid.

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322.035 - 341.551 PJ Vogt

Joining us is ConstitutionDAO's... Crypto investors buying the Constitution? I'll be honest with you. When I first heard about all this, my reaction was, Come on, guys. Like, I felt the same way I did when I visited LA and saw that the basketball stadium there had been renamed the Crypto.com Arena. Did these guys really have to put their names on everything?

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342.171 - 347.995 News Anchor

So far, they've raised more than 800,000 Ether, which is roughly the equivalent of $3.7 million.

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348.015 - 365.836 PJ Vogt

The way I imagined this Constitution thing had happened was a couple of dudes who'd gotten rich off Bitcoin, maybe they were 23, probably they were 23, were just stamping their name on one more thing. It really annoyed me. That's how I felt then. But now, I think what was happening was much more complicated, much more interesting.

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366.837 - 387.573 PJ Vogt

But at the time, annoyed by the intrusion of crypto into one more sphere of my life, I ignored it. I didn't even see who won. And I didn't bother to learn what it meant that these mystery bidders had organized themselves into something called a DAO. But that would prove to be important. In case you are now where I was then, let me just give you a quick explanation of what DAOs are.

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388.394 - 405.261 PJ Vogt

DAO stands for Decentralized Autonomous Organization. What you need to know is that a DAO is like two different things that you're familiar with that have been Frankensteined together. So a DAO starts out as a crowdfunding campaign. Say I wanted to start a podcast company. I really don't, but say I did.

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406.622 - 428.426 PJ Vogt

I'd go online, I'd tell strangers I wanted to raise a bunch of their crypto, they'd hand it over, we'd have a big pot, and since this is a podcast company, we'd call it Podcast DAO. But then part two of what makes a DAO a DAO is that if you had given me crypto to start Podcast DAO, you'd get a digital coin in exchange, a pod coin. And pod coin would represent your share in Podcast DAO.

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429.086 - 449.531 PJ Vogt

So this is sort of like a stock, you could sell it on an exchange, you could buy more of it. Except, PodCoin would also give you very real voting rights in how Podcast DAO was run. In theory, and sometimes in practice, these DAOs do not have a president, they don't have a board of directors, they're run democratically by the people who have funded them.

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450.731 - 471.092 PJ Vogt

It is a very weird fusion of some populist, collectivist, almost communist ideas mixed with very late-stage internet hypercapitalism. My curiosity about DAOs only grew this winter, as a series of new ones appeared, striking seemingly at random with new, absurd acts of commerce. The next really good one was Spice DAO. Maybe you've heard of Spice DAO.

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471.652 - 493.761 PJ Vogt

This was the one that took place at a Christie's auction instead of Sotheby's, and instead of trying to buy the Constitution, this DAO wanted to buy storyboards for an unmade version of the film Dune from the 1970s. The plan? Use the storyboards as inspiration for a Web3-native animated television series. Christie's estimated value for these storyboards? $38,000 max.

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494.541 - 513.96 PJ Vogt

The DAO spent $3 million acquiring them, even though, obviously, owning physical storyboards does not give anyone the right to make content based off of them. What was going on here? The internet seemed to believe these DAOs were just run by people who were hilariously incompetent. Others assumed this was fraud.

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515.171 - 523.113 PJ Vogt

I sort of wondered if it was maybe something closer to a new religion, but I didn't know, and I wanted to. I wanted to get closer to one of these things.

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523.873 - 537.316 FriesDAO Core Team Member 1

All right, awesome. All right, so just briefly talking about what FriesDAO is, obviously we're all here because we're keen to do a little acquisition of a franchise, most likely a fast food franchise.

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537.336 - 560.363 PJ Vogt

So recently I found myself embedded in the Discord server for a DAO who had not yet really announced themselves to the world. Friesdale. This is tape from an AMA where they're pitching themselves to potential investors. Internet randos. Crypto degenerates. They wanted $9.69 million so they could start buying individual fast food franchises across America.

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561.667 - 576.01 FriesDAO Core Team Member 1

you know, the four of us here where it's not like we're going to just pick a subway and be like, this is it. This is it, guys. We're just going to buy the subway in the middle of nowhere. We're probably going to have candidate choices and run those considerations with the governance votes from the community.

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576.51 - 595.897 PJ Vogt

So the guy who's talking is part of the DAO's core team. There's always a core team. These are the people who actually set up the back end of the DAO. And crypto being a very pseudonym friendly space, they don't have to use their real names. In this meeting, the Friesdale guys are going by names like Slippery Grease, Mustard and Ketchup. They take a little over a half hour laying out their spiel.

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595.917 - 613.745 FriesDAO Core Team Member 2

All right. If, for example, Popeyes is the main goal, but realistically, we're not going to be able to do that for somewhere between five to seven months. We need to acquire businesses that go faster. So at Jimmy John's, you can get in there within 45 to 60 days. Baskin Robbins, things like that.

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614.116 - 629.723 PJ Vogt

It's somewhere between a business plan and invasion orders. How they're going to go about converting internet cryptocurrency into ownership of a bunch of different fast food franchises. When they're done, they open the floor for questions, and people have some.

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631.283 - 633.784 FriesDAO Core Team Member 1

Okay. Flippin' burgers?

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634.925 - 660.713 FriesDAO Participant

Yeah. Can you guys hear me? Yep. Okay, good. All right, so I'm kind of new to the whole DAO thing. I've just been kind of looking into it. So what does exactly the DAO itself take care of that the team isn't? You know what I mean? Supposedly these DAOs run the business or run a lot of aspects of the business. Well, what exactly is the DAO doing, and how does that trickle down to us?

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661.073 - 662.374 FriesDAO Participant

How do we benefit from that?

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662.874 - 670.156 PJ Vogt

Like, what does it even mean to run a Baskin-Robbins via internet democracy? What level of decision are we actually going to be able to vote on?

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671.016 - 685.259 FriesDAO Participant

Say we acquire one of these franchises. You said, obviously, hiring a cashier isn't going to be something we put up for a governance vote. But what about a general manager? Once we take over one of these places, we're going to have to have somebody that's actually in charge and competent. You know what I mean?

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685.859 - 698.8 PJ Vogt

I totally know what he means. My favorite question came from this guy named Andy. Like all truly chaotic questions that have ever been lobbed into an open Q&A, it wasn't really a question. More of a suggestion. Andy?

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700.26 - 702.842 Andy

Hey, what's up? Hey, okay. There you go.

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705.023 - 731.559 Andy (Question Suggestion)

Yeah, what other plans do you guys got for the future? What about some wild stuff like making it free or hiring ex-felons and such? Just to do a one-sentence shill. My idea is for a free restaurant via some art that's going to have like crazy models in it and illustrations and stuff. So I'd like to help y'all and continually, subtly, and appropriately show for mine too as we go. Thank you.

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734.94 - 760.075 PJ Vogt

I've thought about Andy's suggestion a lot. I think this is what he's saying. They should have a restaurant where the food is free, the employees are either formerly incarcerated or perhaps currently incarcerated people on a work release program, which is cool, but that it should be funded by art on the walls of models. I don't know.

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761.296 - 784.418 PJ Vogt

What I know is I've never felt stoned off a conference call before, and I find this all very delightful. Sure, there are some people in the room asking pedestrian questions about profit. But the overriding feeling, it's more just like we are playing a joke on and with capitalism. By this point, three days in, I was absolutely fascinated by the show I was watching.

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784.938 - 801.905 PJ Vogt

And I started looking for guides who could just start to explain to me what I was seeing. which was difficult. Crypto is this space where if you're outside of it, there just aren't a lot of people who feel like they straddle between the worlds who speak both languages, at least who aren't trying to sell you on their new dog coin or whatever.

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802.545 - 805.906 PJ Vogt

But I did find someone, the person who'd end up being my first guide through this.

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806.667 - 834.802 Paki McCormick

My name is Paki McCormick. I write a newsletter called Not Boring and run a venture fund called Not Boring Capital. And what does Not Boring Capital invest in? Not Boring Capital invests in early stage companies across the spectrum in tech. It's kind of the biggest categories that I invest in are Web3 and crypto companies, fintech, a little bit of consumer SaaS, and a long tail of companies.

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835.182 - 837.124 Paki McCormick

That was a terrible answer. I'm already fucking this up.

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844.028 - 850.013 Paki McCormick

Not foreign capital invests in tech companies, both kind of Web 2 and Web 3.

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850.633 - 868.727 PJ Vogt

So one of my big questions has just been, who are the brains behind these DAOs? Who's actually on these core teams? And I've been reading a lot of stuff. Crypto Twitter, different newsletters. Paggie's newsletter stood out. He was just one of those rare writers who really was deep in the material but didn't seem completely entranced by it.

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869.608 - 874.791 PJ Vogt

I didn't realize this until we talked, but I think part of the reason I maybe vibed with it was just he was also kind of a newcomer.

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875.632 - 903.494 Paki McCormick

I really got back into crypto earlier in 2021 after being away from the space for eight years because I was mad at myself for selling Bitcoin in 2013. Like a life-changing amount of Bitcoin. A life-changing amount? I bought 38 Bitcoin in 2013 at 100 each and sold them for 150 each. And at the peak before this recent crash, I think it was like $2.5 million worth of Bitcoin or something that I sold.

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903.655 - 906.538 Paki McCormick

Oh, I would call that a life changing amount of Bitcoin.

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906.618 - 907.118 PJ Vogt

I'm so sorry.

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907.158 - 924.501 Paki McCormick

Yeah. So it meant that I kind of stayed away from the space, and so I think I came into it with kind of a fresh perspective, writing more about other tech companies and business strategy and all of that type of stuff, and having operated in a very difficult business. I worked for a company called Bruder before.

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924.982 - 939.45 Paki McCormick

So I think I came into it trying to say, all right, cool, crypto seems really interesting, and Web3 seems very, very interesting. What are the fundamentals here and how does this actually help you build a better product for customers and all of that as opposed to approaching it like a religion?

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940.154 - 953.197 PJ Vogt

The way Packy feels about Web3, it sort of reminds me of how I felt at the beginning of the big podcast boom in 2014. Like this new world was being created. And while it wasn't that hard to see its pitfalls, I was just way more excited about charting the possibilities.

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954.057 - 969.401 PJ Vogt

He explained to me that the DAOs I was paying attention to, the ones that really hit the mainstream, those were the big splashy DAOs. But Packy's excitement was about what the DAO structure itself might represent. A new kind of corporation, meaningfully controlled by the people who funded it.

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970.353 - 981.438 PJ Vogt

And he told me that even now there are DAOs trying to solve actual problems, like how to verify carbon offsets in remote locations or DAOs that allow people with rare diseases to fund research into their own treatments.

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981.838 - 1000.791 Paki McCormick

So instead of it going just VC investing in a potential drug to ultimately going public and having a public biotech stock, there's this in-between point. where by having the patient community involved, one, you could actually get the trials filled more quickly. It also helps with regulators to have the patient community themselves behind it.

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1001.292 - 1023.123 PJ Vogt

Packy thinks that whatever DAOs end up evolving into, say, 20 years from now, that'll be a way that businesses in the future are run and funded. Which, who knows? But the real reason I wanted to talk to Paki is that Paki had been centrally involved in ConstitutionDAO, the DAO that was trying to buy the Constitution. And through Paki, I started meeting other people on the core team.

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1023.863 - 1036.865 Nicole Ruiz

My name is Nicole Ruiz. I was one of the core team members at ConstitutionDAO. What else? I'm an investor as my day job, but I like going down internet rabbit holes and ConstitutionDAO was one of them.

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1037.365 - 1040.346 PJ Vogt

What was your week like in ConstitutionDAO land? What were you working on?

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1041.576 - 1060.127 Nicole Ruiz

Yeah, I think on Friday morning, I was at work and I saw the Reuters article that the Constitution was for sale on Twitter. And I saw some of my friends tweeting about it. And I think I dunked on them because they were like, we're going to make a DAO to buy the Constitution. This is so, like, why do you need a DAO to do that? This seems really silly.

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1060.227 - 1067.292 Nicole Ruiz

And then somebody very kindly replied to me and was like, here's the reasons you think it's cool. And I'm like, wait, that is kind of cool within the hour. And I was like, wait, I want to be part of this. And then I...

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1068.212 - 1071.616 PJ Vogt

Do you remember what they said that you were like, oh, okay.

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1072.497 - 1088.013 Nicole Ruiz

I think they were like, being able to fundraise super quickly and be able to do that publicly will lead to greater trust. And because it's in such a short timeline, like the auction is in like eight days, this is truly a really good test of what a DAO can do quickly. Yeah.

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1088.732 - 1102.415 PJ Vogt

By the end of the weekend, a group of about 30 people had formed the core team of the DAO. Nicole was probably an ideal person for something like this. She's a VC, but her path there is pretty unusual. She went to community college outside DC for a minute, but dropped out.

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1102.896 - 1112.718 PJ Vogt

Then she says she just started attending open talks about tech, meeting industry people on Twitter, and out of pure hustle, parlayed that into a job as an investor. She's a force in nature, and she brought that energy to the DAO.

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1113.018 - 1124.107 Nicole Ruiz

I was like, okay, pull up Discord, get ready to figure out what I can do and who's a part of this and who they need really. I think I'm good at finding people to solve problems. And so I was like, who will make this project even better?

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1124.127 - 1141.94 Nicole Ruiz

And then try to find sort of like gaps in operation where people needed help, either just like answering an existential question about getting set up because we're trying to figure out like, What legal entity do we need? What amount of money do we actually need to fundraise reasonably? What does a fundraiser for something like Sotheby's even look like?

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1142.44 - 1158.169 Paki McCormick

There are people who are actually building and talking to museums and writing code and figuring out the legal structure and setting up the wallets and the partnerships and doing all of these things in a very short amount of time. At some point I was writing a different piece that week and I was just like, you know what, screw it.

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1158.229 - 1165.773 Paki McCormick

I'm going all in on this outsider on the inside, explaining what was going on. You were like a participant observer.

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1166.474 - 1189.237 PJ Vogt

Participant observer is a great way of putting it. Over the course of that week, the core team managed to sell this idea of ConstitutionDAO to almost 20,000 people, including Grimes, although she would join Spiced Out too. Each person who donated crypto had gotten a digital coin in exchange. In this case, they were called people tokens. Remember, this is like stock. The tokens had financial value.

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1189.397 - 1205.276 PJ Vogt

You could trade them. But more interestingly, they granted all these people voting rights. The ability to decide what should happen to the Constitution if they all won it. A third of these people were new wallets, which meant, in many cases, people who apparently had never joined a crypto project before.

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1206.157 - 1225.36 PJ Vogt

Together, they'd contributed $47 million, more than twice what Sotheby's had estimated the Constitution should go for. The Dow was ready to bid. More story after some ads. Search Engine is brought to you by Fresh Direct. I really like FreshDirect.

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1225.82 - 1244.728 PJ Vogt

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1245.389 - 1263.257 PJ Vogt

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1263.978 - 1284.705 PJ Vogt

I mean, I had other stuff too, but the fennel was really good. For over 20 years, Fresh Direct has been delivering the freshest fruits, vegetables, and meats to the tri-state area. Don't take my word for it. Try to believe it with $50 off your first order. Go to freshdirect.com and use code SEARCHENGINE. That's freshdirect.com, code SEARCHENGINE, for new customers to save $50 on their first order.

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1285.485 - 1309.062 PJ Vogt

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1351.719 - 1368.264 PJ Vogt

Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash search engine today. Welcome back to the show.

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1369.565 - 1377.37 Quig Bruning

Good evening from Sotheby's, New York. I'm Quig Bruning, and tonight I'll be your auctioneer for a very special evening sale.

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1377.51 - 1386.537 PJ Vogt

Chapter 2, The Bidding War. Sotheby's head of jewelry, Quig Bruning, is standing in a fairly nondescript room on a dais in front of what looks like a Lichtenstein.

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1387.065 - 1401.629 Quig Bruning

And now, let's begin the auction, lot 1787, the Constitution of the United States of America. We'll start bidding here at $10 million, at $10 million, $11 million, $12 million, at $13 million, now $14 million. The bid's here with me at $14 million.

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1402.629 - 1424.448 PJ Vogt

I'm watching this on YouTube, and in the small box of the frame, you see the room with its reverential audience, wealthy, hushed. We glimpse the backs of their respectful heads. But just beneath that box, there's the comment section where thousands of additional viewers live. The DAO. They are anything but hushed. They're ecstatic. Their comments was by a mile a minute.

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1424.948 - 1436.873 PJ Vogt

Someone's spamming an emoji of a scroll like the Constitution. Someone else is typing W-A-G-B-T-C. We're all going to buy the Constitution over and over. Someone makes an NFT joke. The Constitution's a copyright. You just right-click, save as.

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1440.174 - 1448.359 Quig Bruning

At $13 million, now $14 million. It's here with me at $14 million. At $14 million, $30 million with Brooke Lampley.

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1449.259 - 1461.306 PJ Vogt

People across the country, across the world, were watching this auction from various computers. But a bunch of the core team had gathered in one place. They'd found a space with a projector in Midtown Manhattan, near Grand Central Station.

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1461.767 - 1477.466 Nicole Ruiz

So everybody was sitting in there and sort of lining up. We started projecting the YouTube and everybody was getting in the comments, obviously. And like everybody, all these like spammers were going off with the emojis and like, we're all going to make it. And like getting extraordinarily hype like an hour in advance. So that was... It was very good energy.

0
💬 0

1477.486 - 1496.576 Paki McCormick

Yeah, people were excited. Somebody was wearing a tri-corner hat. People were excited. People were getting into it. I wore a red, white, and blue hat. I didn't have any just straight-up America gear. People were, I think, a little bit in shock that they had pulled this all together. And the fact that we were even bidding and had a person at Sotheby's bidding on our behalf.

0
💬 0

1497.336 - 1500.558 Paki McCormick

In the course of six days, I think that was wild.

0
💬 0

1501.278 - 1510.603 Quig Bruning

$30 million with Brooke Lampley. $30 million now is bid with Brooke. Is Brooke's bid at $30? At $30 million with Brooke Lampley? Brooke, the bid is yours at $30. You say $31.

0
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1511.063 - 1526.071 PJ Vogt

So in the room at Sotheby's, the actual bidding was being done by two Sotheby's employees, acting on behalf of the real bidders. One thing the Dow audience was not clear on was actually a pretty fundamental question. Of the two Sotheby's employees in the room, which one was actually representing them?

0
💬 0

1527.059 - 1536.508 PJ Vogt

There's never consensus, but a lot of people lean towards Brooke Lampley, which just seemed right. Brooke was this young, striking woman. She kind of had the Michaela Maroney smirk the whole time.

0
💬 0

1536.528 - 1544.12 Quig Bruning

With Brooke Lampley at 31. David Schrader at $31 million. At 31, with David at 31.

0
💬 0

1544.82 - 1566.711 PJ Vogt

Plus the other proxy, the other Sotheby's employee in the room, just so perfectly seemed to represent everything Constitution doubt was fighting against. This guy, this guy was so perfectly cast. His name was David Schrader. He had a neatly shaved bald head, an expensive well-cut suit. He looked like a stylish villain from a movie about bankers who hide the vaccine for money.

0
💬 0

1566.731 - 1585.194 Quig Bruning

At 31, with David at 31. David Schrader now has a bid at $31 million. Brooks, we say 32. And whoever Schrader was bidding on behalf of, they had a lot of money. The bid's with David at $31 million. Brooke, any more? It's with David Schrader at $31 million.

0
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1586.595 - 1609.2 PJ Vogt

In the world where Brooke Lampley represented the Dow, who did David Schrader represent? Like Brooke, David also had a telephone to his ear, taking bids from someone, some mystery bidder. Sotheby's estimate for the Constitution's price had been $15 to $20 million. But the mystery bidder, like the Dow, seemed willing to spend way more than that, which was becoming a problem.

0
💬 0

1609.926 - 1627.629 PJ Vogt

Because while the Dow had $47 million, the maximum they could bid was a little over 41. The core team had figured out they had to set some money aside for auction fees, transportation, storage, taxes. So the closer the number got to 41 million, the closer they were to losing this thing.

0
💬 0

1628.35 - 1635.671 PJ Vogt

Back at the core team's lair, Nicole Ruiz was actually sitting next to the guy who was placing their bids, who was on the phone with the Sotheby's rep they were seeing on the screen.

0
💬 0

1635.936 - 1648.624 Nicole Ruiz

he had his phone out. And so he, you just hear on the phone, like him counting numbers, like 40 million, like setting out numbers and sort of prompting him and like, can you go higher? Can you go higher? Do you want to go higher? How are you feeling? Feeling good.

0
💬 0

1649.404 - 1653.487 PJ Vogt

So you could hear both sides. You could hear, you could hear the other side as well.

0
💬 0

1656.449 - 1656.849

That's so great.

0
💬 0

1656.929 - 1660.071 PJ Vogt

And then what he was just saying, like, yes, go up. Yes. Go up. What was he saying?

0
💬 0

1661.052 - 1676.358 Nicole Ruiz

Yeah, pretty much. He wasn't saying a whole lot. He'd be like, yeah. Yeah, do it. Oh, we had one other guy from the company that he worked at who was his childhood friend. And so he was sort of calming him down in the minutes up to it. They're talking about how they made pasta as kids together and all that type of stuff, which was really funny.

0
💬 0

1676.378 - 1683.341 PJ Vogt

Like he was just trying to give him a memory, like a calm memory to where he could like hide out instead of in his own anxiety.

0
💬 0

1683.921 - 1684.701 Person Calming the Bidder

Yeah, exactly.

0
💬 0

1684.721 - 1686.762 PJ Vogt

I could not relate to anything more.

0
💬 0

1686.782 - 1689.703 Person Calming the Bidder

It's so funny. It was really good.

0
💬 0

1690.387 - 1709.899 Quig Bruning

David, the bid is yours at 31. Brooke, any more? David, that might have done it. David Schrader, looks like the bid is yours at $31 million then. It's fair warning, Selby. Fair warning, Brooke, at $31 million. Week 32, in time, at $32 million. Brooke, the bid is yours at 32.

0
💬 0

1710.039 - 1718.345 PJ Vogt

If somebody just stopped you and been like, Packy, like, why is everyone in this room doing this thing? Like, what has this room decided is important? Like, what would you say?

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1719.261 - 1744.238 Paki McCormick

That's a really good question. One, it was the fact that everybody's talking about Web3 as this democratizing force and it's for the people and blah, blah, blah. And then this document that represents democracy and we the people and all of that comes up for auction. And so you can get a group of what ended up being almost 20,000 internet strangers to come together to buy this document together.

0
💬 0

1744.258 - 1753.455 Paki McCormick

It was too much to pass up on and too beautiful of a symbol to miss out on. It's funny.

0
💬 0

1754.156 - 1776.833 PJ Vogt

People just get excited online about being part of a large group that is doing something powerful, especially if it's powerful and a little bit dumb. A hundred percent. Once people see that's happening, they just want to be a part of that thing. Which feels like, I know that for you, the long-term meaningfulness of DAOs can be about stuff like

0
💬 0

1777.634 - 1785.301 PJ Vogt

climate change and rare diseases, but the short term feels like some of it is just like, holy shit, look what we could put on the jumbotron today.

0
💬 0

1786.162 - 1803.997 Paki McCormick

Totally, and I'm not dismissing that. I think the magic is that you could have fun doing dumb shit short term, and also as a byproduct of that, it also tests models that could be used for less dumb things and more impactful things over time. But I don't know, yeah, it's a copy of the Constitution,

0
💬 0

1804.997 - 1814.381 Paki McCormick

But it's buying this thing together with a group of people that represents democracy and all the things that you love about this country. I don't know. Everything's kind of made up anyway.

0
💬 0

1814.401 - 1833.094 PJ Vogt

I think I do actually agree with Paki that democracy was being represented here. I just... I'm not always sure. It's not that I... I guess... Is there any idea as beautiful in theory but as stomach-lurchingly rickety in practice as actual democracy?

0
💬 0

1834.274 - 1852.964 PJ Vogt

Back at the auction, while the bidders battled it out in increments of tens of millions of dollars, the video's live comments box showcased the anarchic, crazed part of democracy as it is actually practiced. The commenters were not coolly discussing America's grand tradition as a republic. they were screaming their heads off.

0
💬 0

1853.565 - 1874.571 PJ Vogt

It was an endless scroll of cheering, jeering, paranoid screeds, and truly lunatic plans for the country's founding document. One person commanded, Nicholas Cage should be nominated as the primary guardian of this document. Another person said, let's burn the Constitution and turn it into an NFT. Someone else agreed, let's smoke it. Someone asked, why not burn it?

0
💬 0

1875.891 - 1896.158 PJ Vogt

A calmer voice chimed in, anyone want to not burn it? And the compromise solution was proposed. Let's not burn the Constitution and turn it into an NFT. These were the people that the core team had been essentially wrangling for the past six days. The raucous voice of real democracy, with the core team functioning almost like a congress.

0
💬 0

1896.798 - 1903.864 Paki McCormick

Certainly the ability to have democracy without total chaos is one of the interesting things about DAOs.

0
💬 0

1903.904 - 1912.112 PJ Vogt

I mean, it's part of what stresses me out about DAOs is like groups of people stress me out. Group projects stress me out a lot.

0
💬 0

1913.353 - 1913.673 Paki McCormick

Totally.

0
💬 0
0
💬 0

1917.865 - 1925.128 PJ Vogt

Do you ever feel a sense of panic? The difference between being the core contributor channels in the Discord and then the general channel in the Discord...

0
💬 0

1934.611 - 1954.428 Paki McCormick

was night and day. And this is why you progressively decentralize and you don't just open it up immediately. Because it was peaceful and the most well-run startup you've seen in the background. Everyone just having a daily stand-in, getting their tasks and going and doing those tasks and then checking in and getting help when needed in the core contributor group.

0
💬 0

1954.849 - 1976.479 Paki McCormick

And then the main Discord was like, When Token, all the things that DAOs get shit on for was happening in that main group and it was total chaos and there's no way that you could possibly keep up with it. And people are guessing the bad intentions of the organizers and all of that kind of stuff. those bad intentions didn't exist, but just groups can kind of take on a mind of their own.

0
💬 0

1976.94 - 2003.688 Paki McCormick

Which is why I do think it makes sense to really figure out what the structures are before fully decentralizing, like Constitution doubted. Which was an intentional decision, because had we just said, all right, everybody has a vote now, what are we going to do? We would have had someone wearing a 69-man costume go to Sub-B's. and replace Brooke as our bidder.

0
💬 0

2004.889 - 2025.592 Paki McCormick

It can get out of control if you don't have the right kind of framework in place from the beginning. The point is not that it's fully democratic in everything, it's that people have more of a say and more ownership, particularly over time as the product is more mature and doesn't rely on that kind of coordination or product vision from one person or a small group of people.

0
💬 0

2027.192 - 2045.562 PJ Vogt

I find Constitutional confusing the way I find crypto confusing. Which, I mean, not just the jargon or the technology or the math of it all, but also just how to feel about it. It's confounding. Crypto is a populist movement opposed to big banks and central power, but some of its ringleaders and most excited cheerleaders are VCs.

0
💬 0

2046.522 - 2061.979 PJ Vogt

It doesn't really fit into the arguments or alignments that I'm used to seeing. I understand why someone like Paki can look at Constitution DAO and see a new form of joyfully absurd populism asserting itself, I don't know which opinion is right, or really if there's any right opinion at all.

0
💬 0

2079.775 - 2100.4 PJ Vogt

The only thing I know for sure is that making any big pronouncements or predictions about what this is or where it's going seems like a great way to look stupid when it all changes again in five minutes. So instead, how about I just tell you the identity of the person who was bidding so aggressively against the Dow? Why don't I just tell you about the mystery bidder?

0
💬 0

2101.932 - 2115.575 Ken Griffin

I have become more involved in politics over the years because I'm trying to protect the American dream. I'm trying to protect the opportunity that everyone in this country should have to have a great life, a great education, and to have a life well lived.

0
💬 0

2121.263 - 2143.778 PJ Vogt

That is multi-billionaire Ken Griffin, 45th richest person in America, second richest person in Illinois, hater of internet populism. The guy who bailed out Wall Street when Redditors were beating them up with GameStop stock. You just heard him speaking at an event a month before the auction where, conveniently, someone asked him the question I've learned derails every dinner in 2022.

0
💬 0

2144.679 - 2147.04 PJ Vogt

Ken, what do you think about cryptocurrency?

0
💬 0

2147.48 - 2178.348 Ken Griffin

Do you believe in crypto? And even if you don't, Ken, should your businesses be active investors or traders in crypto anyway? That is a great question. So first and foremost, I wish all this passion and energy that went into crypto was directed towards making the United States stronger. I mean, let's face it, it's a jihadist call that we don't believe in the dollar.

0
💬 0

2179.109 - 2199.787 PJ Vogt

A jihadist call that we don't believe in the dollar. That is mystery bidder Ken Griffin. Griffin was a person motivated not just by a desire to own the Constitution, but by an understanding of what it was Constitution Dow was trying to say. He disagreed with them. And he was disagreeing with them in one of the oldest, clearest languages America has.

0
💬 0

2200.808 - 2208.192 Quig Bruning

Money. The bid is with David at $40 million. Nice round number. Brooke, it is not yours with David Schrader at $40.

0
💬 0

2209.053 - 2228.299 PJ Vogt

In this moment in the auction, the Dow does not know that they are bidding against Ken Griffin. He was simply the mystery bidder. All they know is that somehow, six minutes into the auction, the cost of an old scrap of paper had reached $40 million. The Dow doesn't have much money left. All eyes are on Brooke Lampley, the person bidding on behalf of the Dow.

0
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2229.259 - 2255.416 Quig Bruning

We think. Waiting for you if you'd like it at $40 million with David. Again, 41 to be next. 40 million. Brooke? Quig Brunig, hands folded on the podium, looks at Brooke. So we're still thinking about it, but maybe that might have done it. David, the bid is yours at 40 million. It is not yours, Brooke. We can bring the hammer up again. Brooke's on the phone. She gestures with her hand to hold.

0
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2255.757 - 2284.587 Quig Bruning

Increase the drama one more time. At 40 million dollars. David, the bid is yours. 41 million. With Brooke at $41 million. Brooke raises her hand. $41 million. She has it. Just in time. At $41 million, Brooke Lampley. The bid is yours at $41 million. Sir Schrader, what shall we say? At $41 million, it is Brooke's bid at $41 million. It's ahead of your phone. It's with Brooke at $41 million.

0
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2286.607 - 2291.63 PJ Vogt

Just watching this is nerve-wracking. Quake looks at David. David's hand is on the phone. He does not look up.

0
💬 0

2292.278 - 2318.438 Quig Bruning

this historic document with Brooke Lampley's bid at $41 million viewed around the country. 41, no? Are we sure? David finally looks up and shakes his head side to side. No. At $41 million, Brooke, looks like congratulations are in order to your bidder. David, you're out. Anyone else is welcome to jump in, but Brooke Lampley, the bid is yours for the United States Constitution at $41 million.

0
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2320.45 - 2325.133 Quig Bruning

Sold $41 million, traveled 411. Congratulations.

0
💬 0

2326.453 - 2343.082 PJ Vogt

It was over. Brooke Lampley, still holding the phone to her ear, now smiling like a cat who ate a canary. In the YouTube comments box, people are still arguing about whether or not they've won, whether Brooke had indeed represented them. Someone says, yes, yes, we did it, followed immediately by someone who says, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

0
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2344.585 - 2362.345 PJ Vogt

The most important thing and the funniest thing about DAOs is that they are decentralized. No CEO, no gods, no masters. So what happened next? A couple DAO members, not the core team, started celebrating. They opened up an audio chat room on Twitter to members of the press. A reporter from Motherboard recorded it.

0
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2363.226 - 2381.039 DAO Member Celebrating

I like to welcome all the media outlets that are in the space. I see you, CNBC. I see you, CNN. I see you, Fortune Magazine. I see all the different media outlets. You are in the right space right now, ladies and gentlemen. You are in the history. Imagine 10 years ago when you heard about Bitcoin. Right now, what is happening with the Constitution DAO, it is history.

0
💬 0

2381.6 - 2385.963 PJ Vogt

He said he'd just gotten a text from one of his friends who was higher up in the DAO. They'd won.

0
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2387.938 - 2405.573 DAO Member Celebrating

I literally want to cry. We fucking did it. We won it. We're going to make it. She said, we did it. I confirmed from the team. We won the auction, ladies and gentlemen. Congratulations. We're going to make it. Let's just take a quick pause for a second. Just soak it in for one second.

0
💬 0

2410.917 - 2415.797 PJ Vogt

History was made. Another DAO member said, maybe it was time to consider the next auction.

0
💬 0

2416.057 - 2418.118 Brian Wagner

Maybe we do the declaration next? I don't know.

0
💬 0

2418.138 - 2435.367 PJ Vogt

They were giddy. They were taking questions. These random DAO members who had appointed themselves revolutionary spokespeople. But they'd made a mistake. Their assumption had been that Brooke was their proxy. She seemed like their proxy. But nobody really confirmed it. And then another text came in.

0
💬 0

2435.387 - 2445.178 Brian Wagner

Okay. Yo, I've been texting my friend who's on the Multisig, and she says that they didn't get it.

0
💬 0

2445.198 - 2462.343 DAO Member Celebrating

Yeah, I just got reconfirmed. So we did not win this, ladies and gentlemen, but it's still history in the action because we really opened up the Pandora's box. I want you guys to think about, we pulled enough money to actually get close to winning. We were really close to winning. Now imagine what we do is we pulled the money together for next project. Maybe what, VAT?

0
💬 0

2463.837 - 2465.138 FriesDAO Core Team Member 2

That's right. Yeah.

0
💬 0

2465.478 - 2465.678 DAO Member Celebrating

Right?

0
💬 0

2466.278 - 2467.299 FriesDAO Core Team Member 2

Yeah, this is just a start.

0
💬 0

2467.919 - 2476.485 PJ Vogt

I don't know if you caught what he said there. Maybe next time we buy an NBA team. This is just a start. What did it feel like when the auction was over?

0
💬 0

2476.505 - 2488.952 Nicole Ruiz

It felt... It still felt good. I don't really know if it was like a letdown. Like it was just such a crazy thing that we did.

0
💬 0

2488.972 - 2506.319 Paki McCormick

It felt special for sure. I don't know if it felt historic or... I mean, at the end of the day, we lost an auction to buy the Constitution. And so it's not like the world changed. I do think it was a good opportunity to show that this other structure is kind of out there and people are going to do some wild things with it.

0
💬 0

2507.2 - 2515.962 Nicole Ruiz

It felt very uncertain because we didn't know what was next. I think deep down, maybe we all knew. But yeah, just kind of riding the adrenaline high.

0
💬 0

2521.143 - 2546.04 PJ Vogt

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2744.871 - 2762.547 PJ Vogt

There's something about a good deadline that can draw a team together like a school of fish. No real boss necessary. The deadline is the boss. There's this almost ecstatic clarity of purpose that can take hold up until the moment the deadline is over, at which point the whole thing falls apart like a dream. Or so I've heard.

0
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2763.59 - 2785.822 PJ Vogt

Anyway, something like that seemed to happen post-auction for Constitution Dow. Not that the team became particularly fractious. More like general miscommunication and mild disorder flourished post-auction. Part of this, I think, was related to something I actually didn't understand until pretty late in my reporting. I started to get a sense of it when I asked Nicole Ruiz this very basic question.

0
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2786.462 - 2786.982 PJ Vogt

How old are you?

0
💬 0

2787.923 - 2788.083 Nicole Ruiz

I'm 24.

0
💬 0

2789.696 - 2799.66 PJ Vogt

Everything that she's done, 24 years old. And what was the age range of people on the core team? Was it a lot of people in their mid, early 20s, older, younger?

0
💬 0

2799.68 - 2808.664 Nicole Ruiz

Yeah, I think the youngest person might have been 16 and the oldest person might have been 35. I could have that wrong by one or two years, but I think that's about it.

0
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2809.045 - 2818.809 PJ Vogt

But so pretty young. Like young to be, I don't know at what age, this isn't true, but young to be controlling a wallet with over $40 million in it.

0
💬 0

2819.574 - 2837.223 Nicole Ruiz

Totally. Totally. Yeah. I mean, technically, technically, I think six people were on the multi-sig. So technically they, they weren't the 16 year old, I don't think was one of the people who could have run away with the money. You know, the multi-sig prevents that in general, but yes, yes. In general, you know, a cool age range.

0
💬 0

2838.089 - 2851.834 PJ Vogt

I don't mention the ages of the core team here as a dig. Young people are capable of the same successes and failures as anybody else. I'm trying to get at something else here, which is that what stood out to me meeting the core team was just the motleyness of the crew.

0
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2852.674 - 2870.473 PJ Vogt

Finance people, coders, medium-tier meme lords, a motley crew of people, many of whom were doing jobs that either were not their expertise or were perhaps several promotions past where they would have been at a regular organization. And what had kept this school of fish together was velocity itself, the speed they had to work at.

0
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2870.953 - 2898.191 PJ Vogt

But now that velocity was gone, and what remained was a group of young, exhausted people with a delicate and thorny problem to solve. The money. What was to be done about all the money? $47 million of donated Ethereum, collected from just under 20,000 people, medium contribution, 200 bucks. It all had to be refunded to that raucous crowd of DAO contributors. The core team had promised to do it.

0
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2899.611 - 2913.634 PJ Vogt

But in the days after the auction, there were conflicting messages about how exactly that refund process would work. By the end of the week, what they said was, yes, there would be refunds, but the DAO would not cover the Ethereum gas fees, which are expensive.

0
💬 0

2914.335 - 2930.407 PJ Vogt

It meant that there were people who had donated $20 or $50 who were now understanding that the fees on their refunds would exceed the refunds themselves. And they were angry. angry about the money, angry about the communication around it. I asked Brian Wagner, another core team member, about this.

0
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2931.007 - 2952.174 Brian Wagner

I mean, I think they're both reasonable criticisms. Like, um, like communication, like certainly could have been better in the days after we lost the auction. But we also like, we were basically telling people like, we're figuring out what we're capable of doing next, just as people and we need a minute. And we didn't know.

0
💬 0

2952.454 - 2972.926 Brian Wagner

And I spent a Saturday with like one or two other folks on the team, like trying to estimate the costs of different ways that we could refund this money. And it was just, it's expensive. And there was no getting around that. And so we were kind of like, well, we got to make this available. Like as soon as we can, we can't just like hold onto these people's money. Like that's not okay.

0
💬 0

2973.507 - 2980.031 Brian Wagner

And, and we probably should have done a better job of educating people about this. And here we are.

0
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2980.051 - 2983.413 PJ Vogt

Do you feel like you learned that it's more fun to start a revolution than to govern?

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2984.134 - 3003.36 Brian Wagner

Yeah. A hundred percent. It is, like, pretty much, like, there was certainly an element of, like, the, like, dog chasing the car situation. Yeah, like, you caught the bumper and now what do you do? Like, we're on it, like, oh, like, it's really hard to, like, manage all these viewpoints.

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3003.941 - 3025.703 PJ Vogt

Frustration with the Dow seemed to reach its peak the Sunday after the auction and crested through the following week. But over Thanksgiving weekend, it disappeared in the face of something unexpected and deeply hilarious. On December 1st, the headline in Forbes read, crypto investors wanted to buy the Constitution. Instead, they birthed another hyped-up meme coin.

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3026.744 - 3046.131 PJ Vogt

That coin was the People Token, the coin that ConstitutionDAO had given its contributors as a share in the DAO. Should have been nearly worthless, since the group had failed to acquire the asset that would have backed it, the United States Constitution. But now, for reasons no one was entirely clear on, a bunch of traders suddenly wanted to buy that coin.

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3047.375 - 3072.372 PJ Vogt

A lot of this interest was coming from crypto traders in China. The best rumor I heard explaining this was that crypto in China is considered anti-Chinese government. These investors may have liked a coin whose symbolic value was tied to democratic revolution. Who knows? But whatever the cause, the price of the People token shot up. Way up. At its height, a 3,700% increase.

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3073.333 - 3080.759 PJ Vogt

Which meant that the small investors in ConstitutionDAO, the people who had not been able to get their refunds, they had now won a minor lottery.

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3081.88 - 3116.795 Paki McCormick

Here's Packy. And then, lo and behold, those people were the lucky ones because I, like an idiot, took my ETH back and missed out on the pop. But the people who had to keep their $50 in because it didn't make sense to take it out, all of a sudden their $50 was worth $2,000 within a week. So dumb. I mean, I know people who made like a couple hundred thousand dollars by accidentally like leaving.

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3116.815 - 3126.038 Paki McCormick

I would have made, I put five Ethan. I would have made, I think at the peak, something like $900,000 had I just like waited a day to refund my money.

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3126.518 - 3127.279 PJ Vogt

Oh my God.

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3128.019 - 3129.939 Paki McCormick

Yeah. It doesn't bother you.

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3131.34 - 3159.6 PJ Vogt

There's so many of these like things here. Yeah. In the end, Paki left Constitution Down the way he entered it. A crypto enthusiast with a good story about the fortune that he'd almost won. That is our story on Crypto Island this week. A disclaimer, if I have accidentally given you the impression that you should run out and start investing in a weird crypto project... Please do not do that.

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3159.62 - 3185.124 PJ Vogt

This is a very hard to navigate space. I am puzzling it out one story at a time. And if you're along with me on this series, if you're learning from me, just don't. Nothing here makes sense. Nothing is fixed. On that note, mystery bidder Ken Griffin, the billionaire who won the Constitution, announced this month that his firm will now start investing in cryptocurrency.

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3185.904 - 3219.344 PJ Vogt

That old jihadist call against the dollar. Everything changes, man. We first aired that story in 2022. Since then, Ken Griffin still owns the Constitution. He's loaned it to the Crystal Bridges Museum in Bentonville, Arkansas. You could go see it there. Nicole Ruiz is not working on any crypto projects now. She's a stay-at-home mom trying to build a big homeschooling community in Brooklyn.

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3220.285 - 3240.532 PJ Vogt

Paki McCormick, still in crypto. His newsletter, Not Boring, is going strong. This episode of Crypto Island was produced and edited by Shruti Panamaneni, fact-checking by Elizabeth Moss, sound design and mixing from Stephen Jackson and Phil Demachowski at the Audio Non-Visual Company. Theme song by Christine Andrews. See you next week.

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