Marriage is magical… but also occasionally maddening. In this episode, we welcome licensed marriage and family therapist Aly Bullock, to spill her wisdom on making love last long after the honeymoon.💥 [00:02:10] We kick it off with the most-asked question about long-term relationships—and a fresh perspective you probably haven’t heard before.💃 [00:04:50] “Non-toxic drama”? Yes, it’s a thing—and you might just be obsessed with the concept.👀 [00:10:45] How something as simple as eye contact might be the most underrated intimacy move.📱 [00:12:00] The couples app that’s transforming everyday connection—one tiny prompt at a time.🥴 [00:17:15] Is it possible to be happy, healthy, and passionate in the long run? Let’s just say this part might challenge your assumptions.💔 [00:24:15] What to do when you’re years in and still unsure if your partner is “the one.”😬 [00:27:15] The art of addressing a partner’s weight gain—with honesty and compassion.💅 [00:33:00] What to say when your partner’s new look has you questioning everything—including their haircut choices.💵 [00:36:10] Money dynamics in relationships: how to handle shifts in income and power without blowing things up.👶 [00:41:50] Kids change everything—here’s how to stay close when chaos enters the chat.🔐 [00:48:50] Trust issues and betrayal: what healing really looks like, and how to know when it’s time to walk away.👪 [00:55:10] In-law boundaries, decoded. (Yes, you can set them without sparking family feuds.)Find Aly on social media at the handles @pairedapp and @relationshipswithaly where she shares relatable, actionable couples content and check out the show notes for 25% off a year membership to Paired premium to get her expert advice tailored specifically to you and your partner. http://www.paired.com/alypodcastCheck out our amazing sponsors:Clean Simple Eats: Shop Clean Simple Eats protein powder and use code POPAPOLOGISTS for 10% off!Earlybird: Click here to try EarlyBird CBD/THC gummies and use code POP20 for 20% off. Cozy Earth: Prioritize your sleep! Visit CozyEarth.com/POP and use our exclusive code POP for 40% off best-selling sheets, towels, pajamas, and more. And if you get a post-purchase survey, let them know you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Sleep Better with Cozy Earth.Progressive: Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance.Quince: Thoughtful. Timeless. Totally her. Shop Mother’s Day at Quince. Go to quince.com/apologist for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Thrive Market: Ready to make the switch? Head to ThriveMarket.com/pop and get 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift!Please note this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.For more Pop Apologists, follow along at:@popapologists on InstagramPop Apologists on YouTubeTo support the show, consider subscribing on Patreon or anywhere you listen to podcasts, where you can get bonus episodes of Pop Apologists every Monday and Friday!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: Who is Aly Bullock and why is she an expert on relationships?
Well, well, well, we are so excited to be joined today by Allie Bullock. Allie Bullock is a licensed marriage and family therapist, the head of relationships at the number one couples app paired that has helped 4 million couples globally stay in love. And she's the creator of relationships with Allie, her popular social presence with over 300,000 followers across platforms.
Allie is also a proud wife to her husband, Sean and mom of three kids. So she's practicing what she preaches every day. You guys, I really wanted to bring Ali on because I feel like you share so much wisdom for people who are in the trenches of actual like everyday monogamy marriage relationships. And I feel like we're fed so much advice for dating. Totally.
And so much advice for like how to get the guy, how to get him to commit. But what do we do when we got the ring on our finger, you know, and it's a couple of years in and different problems arise.
Yes.
So many different problems. So I feel like this episode is just going to be so valuable for all of our listeners who are in committed relationships and want to keep them thriving. And also, I think, to have some wisdom as they embark on, you know, getting married and creating a great life in partnership with someone.
Yeah, I think it'll be so helpful for people who maybe even aren't in a serious relationship now or who aren't in that phase of life yet, because once you're in that phase of life, you want to maintain it. You would hope to stay married forever. So we're so excited to have you. Thank you for being here. Thank you both so much for having me. I feel so honored.
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Chapter 2: What is 'non-toxic drama' and how can it keep the spark alive?
I love this podcast, and I'm so excited to be here with you. Of course. Okay, so I think the best way we can serve our audience is really go through the questions they had for you and try to get to as many of them as possible. So let's just start off with a banger. And I think one of the most popular questions we get, which is how do you keep the spark alive?
The number one question that I'm asked always. And my favorite answer is non-toxic drama. Okay. Also, this was not what I was expecting at all. And I'm obsessed. You have to create drama that's not toxic, meaning you are fully in control of it. For example, maybe you... make a new name and text your partner from your sexy name on a different phone number on WhatsApp. Oh my gosh.
Or like you role play. Right. Role play or you go, you know, make out or have sex somewhere you normally would not ever do that. Like you're creating dramatic experiences that you have control over. So they're not toxic. They're not going to lead to anything that you don't want, but you're just intentionally keeping the spark alive by doing things that are sparky. I don't know.
That's a weird, weird way to say it, but. Well, and I even interpret that as like you, maybe you buy yourself a new outfit, something you wouldn't typically wear. You like you step into a more dramatic side of yourself in order to create a new experience. Because I think so much of the frustration with keeping the spark alive is just like, I've known this person forever. We've had sex forever.
Like, how do we do it new? How do we make it feel new and exciting? Because I love this person, but you want to continue to feel young and alive. Totally. And I even just got sent, someone sent me this box. It's like a fantasy box, right?
Of toys or something? Of toys.
And there's like a feather duster. I've never used a feather duster before, but it was great. It was new. It was something that was different. And it was just that simple thing. Took 10 minutes, right? But once a month or once every few months, adding something new like that can make such a difference because you're not so bored anymore. Like you're not so monotonous anymore.
And like, I guess, can you speak to keeping the spark alive beyond sex? Yes. Yeah. Do new things with your partner, right? You are so used to them that you start to make all these assumptions about them. And so you assume what they're going to like and what they don't like. And you go out on a date and you just like have in your head how it's going to go already.
And so you have to really intentionally do new things where you're going to see them in a new light.
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Chapter 3: How can couples maintain intimacy beyond physical connection?
I think that's a killer tip. And when you have kids and you are stuck in these parent roles, you just... Moms just start to feel like mom. Like, I don't feel sexy anymore. But when I'm... I'm not going to tell you my name. But when I'm this person, right? I can be different. Like, I know when I see a text message from WhatsApp from my husband that that's a different message.
Yes.
I also... I don't know why this is giving me the chills. It's giving me the chills in just like a very fun, excited way. But I love that it's also WhatsApp because it's like encrypted, right? It's totally private. It's totally secure. And so that's why it's like from WhatsApp, maybe it's not on iMessage or whatever. It's not going to come through on all your iClouds where the kids are on the iPad.
But yeah, I love that you just kind of create like a safe channel, a safe space to keep the sexiness going and the sex going.
Yeah.
Also, I feel like we could do an hour on why this is such a great idea, but I like the idea that for the person who's receiving the message, maybe they're a little stressed. They know when they get that notification and they know when to open it, to be in the headspace, to be ready to receive it. And I think sometimes you might send something and they're not ready for it.
They don't need that dropped in their iMessage. What if the message above is like, do we need to buy more chicken breasts for dinner tonight? You know, like it just, it kills the vibe. And I've heard so many times, oh, my husband will only respond to the last message I sent him. Like I send the X, Y, Z million list and he only sees the last one. And so this can also be a way to mitigate that.
Yeah.
I love it.
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Chapter 4: What is the Paired app and how does it help couples stay connected?
It's not gonna be this thing that just gets worse, which I feel like is kind of a lesson sometimes the culture tells us. Totally. Actually, you just reminded me of, what's the guy's name? Music man guy.
Oh Hugh Jackman Hugh Jackman yeah I was thinking about him this week because of the what is her name thank you because of the Sutton Foster thing and I was like looking up his old marriage and I was just I'm happy for him right he's happy but I was feeling sad because they had so much history I know I'm I'm team sad I'm happy because love and light I want everyone to be living their best life blah blah blah blah yeah
But I'm a little sad because, yeah, we can get it. This is not the podcast for whether or not there was cheating, but I'm a little sad. It actually very much is. Well, not this episode, but this episode. But this podcast is the cheating. We'll uncover it. But it's exactly right. It's the history that makes your love so much deeper and richer. It's a beautiful thing.
Lauren and I always talk about our like Mount Rushmore of monogamy because Lauren and I are such I mean, our parents have been married forever. We're very like in love with the idea and the couples that we see in popular culture who have been together forever. For example, a Tom Hanks and a Rita Wilson, a Tim McGraw and a Faith Hill, Barack and Michelle.
And anyway, those are some of our favorite couples. And we've always said, if any of them break up, we're donezo. We're basically for divorce. We should just go to divorce court immediately. Because I think everybody wants to believe in this idea that you can have an extremely special, meaningful marriage that can withstand to quote Fleetwood Mac, the seasons of your life and kids and change.
And I think that it can be very scary to look forward and not know what the future will hold and not know if your marriage will withstand that. And you have to practice every day. There's an analogy I love, which is you can have a piano in your house and love music and love piano, but that doesn't mean you know how to play it.
And even if you knew how to play it once, if you haven't played for 10 years, you're going to be really rusty. And it's like the same thing with a person. You can have a person in your house that you love, but if you're not practicing every day those skills of connecting with them, you're going to get rusty. You're not going to be good at it anymore.
And so you have to be really intentional every single day to keep that spark alive, to keep your romance. I would love to know, what are some of the daily things? Is that an open mouth kiss?
Or you know what I'm saying?
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Chapter 5: Is it possible to be happy, healthy, and passionate in a long-term relationship?
No, I haven't. And maybe when was that like a moment outside of sex too? Totally. Contact is just so vulnerable. It is so vulnerable. But I think about getting home or my husband comes home and I look up and I say, hey, look back to my phone or my computer, go to bed. We give each other a quick hug, go to sleep. We're not taking that time to actually look at each other. But when we do...
It's like, oh, I see you today.
Yeah. I love you.
Right? Yeah. Wow. I mean, I think that's so beautiful. And I think it's important to realize that there are these little things. Because again, it's not the feather duster. It's not the new name in WhatsApp. It's like these body movements that we need to be aware of. And yeah, a relationship really is something that you cultivate and develop. It's not something, a great relationship.
It's not something that just... you luck into and happens to. Yeah, totally. And then it's always just easy street from there. Right. And the whole reason I love paired specifically or couples apps like it is because it asks you a question every day. And you answer that question. You can't see your partner's answer until you've answered. Oh, yeah. So tell us about the paired app.
Yeah, I want to know.
It's essentially an app that helps couples stay in love. That's it.
slogan of the app and it helps you stay in love by connecting with each other so it takes less than five minutes a day there's a prompt a new prompt every day that's a question today was what was something you love that sean inherited from his parents oh cool so it's just a unique question that makes you think and then he has to respond to be able to see my answer yeah so it takes literally less than two minutes and she's like oh i thought about you today wait this is so wonderful it's great
I feel like tears are at the back of my throat like this. I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm fresh off my bachelorette. But I just I love that. I love that. You know, it's just like a moment to like check in, reflect, just like appreciate the specialness, you know, that is like your love. Yeah. I check my Instagram every day. Why shouldn't I spend one minute thinking about my relationship?
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Chapter 6: When and how should you talk about marriage in dating?
It just took you far less time to get there because we finally were honest about things.
Right. Yeah.
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Chapter 7: How normal is it to question if your partner is 'the one' after years together?
Is it even possible to be happy and healthy and passionate in a long-term relationship? Yes. It's possible. It's rare. I'm not going to lie.
It's rare.
I think it's rare. I mean, think about the adults that you know who have been together more than 30 years. How many would you actually say you think are happy? Yeah. Or in love still.
Do you feel like though that's because, and I'm just, maybe this is just some hopium I'm trying to smoke right now, but do you think that's because our generation is maybe more aware and trying to be more conscious and like therapy is so much more normalized and we're trying to work on ourselves and we're trying to actually be better.
And for our parents' generation, it was like, you know, you don't need to cry. Like you're not in the depression, like, you know, buck up and whatever. Yeah. Like you're married. It's great. It's fine. Be grateful. Like, there's this, I saw this interview with Ivana Trump on Letterman, and she was saying that she didn't like how a famous person who was cheated on was always crying.
Oh, I think it was Princess Diana. Yeah, she was saying she didn't like how Princess Diana was always crying. Because she's like, who cares if he cheats on you? You have a beautiful, like, you live in a castle. You have beautiful children. You know, like, stop crying. And I feel like... Yikes. Yikes. That's a take. Yes. Right? Yeah. Yeah, that's quite a take.
And I just think that on some level, there was that attitude in the previous generation, which is just kind of like, life is hard. Deal with it. Yeah. The other thing I want to say to this question, the question is, is it even possible to be happy, healthy, and passionate in a long-term relationship? To me, I think it's very hard to be all three of those things at once.
And so I think to your answer about how it's rare, it's rare to maybe feel all of those things at the exact same time, to have that synergy at one point. But I do think it is possible to experience those things in rotation, where it's like, OK, maybe I'm not feeling the craziest amount of passion about my partner, but I'm happy. Our life is good. That's such a good point. Such a good point.
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Chapter 8: How do you address sensitive issues like a partner's weight gain with compassion?
And there's a type of therapy called narrative therapy. And one of the things they talk about is sparkling moments. When you look at your journey, where's a sparkling moment you can identify? And it would be one of those where you're happy, healthy, and passionate all at the same time. And those brief moments carry you through a lot of hard work.
And so it's possible to have all three, but it's not going to be all the time. why like the honeymoon phase of sex is so important because it's like knowing that you have this like sexual connection with your partner and that you had this like crazy time. I just think that kind of like is important as you know, you get to the stages of monogamy that maybe are a little less
frenetic in their order. I think that it just, you know, you have it and you know that you can get back to those moments. I think those moments really can carry you through the more mundane times. Well, to your point, I think like what is so intertwined is like youth and sexual vibrancy.
Like you, and if you feel like you're losing your sexual vibrancy, it's like, is that because I'm getting older? And then there's all this fear and like, and I guess like, you know, that's something that, you know, I think can be really hard for people is Thinking those two things are mutually exclusive. But they're definitely not.
I remember in grad school, we had to watch a documentary about elderly sex, essentially. And it was all about all the sex that's happening in these care facilities. And people are horny. Which is great. Which is honestly fucking great news.
So great.
So great. And people say, I don't know if you've heard, the best sex is in your 30s or 40s. The more experience that you have with sex, the better it can get. And so I do not want people to think, oh, just because we're getting old together means we're not going to be as passionate. It doesn't have to be that way. It's all about the story you tell yourself. Yes.
Like, I remember, I mean, this doesn't have to do with relationships, but I was talking with a friend, and I was just talking about, like, unfortunately, I have this, like, negativity about aging. And I was just like, you know, it was just all downhill from one point. And she's like, that's honestly not true for everyone.
Like, if you take care of yourself and, like, you work on yourself, like, you can perpetually becoming, like, transforming into a more beautiful, vibrant, but just different version of yourself. And anyway, I think that that also can be said about your relationship and your sex life.
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