Lauren and Chan are joined by Taylor Lorenz to discuss all things related to internet culture. They dive into the following: The Socialite Rank (3:32), the social media ecosystem (11:33), parasocial relationships (14:35), aspirational content (20:18), mommy bloggers (28:33), the birth of influencer marketing (33:04), viral content shaping societal values (36:42), AI creators & digital clones (40:31), going from an influencer to being in the public eye with Meghan Markle (45:16), and finally, image curation and PR strategy with Gwyneth Paltrow (51:00). Please note this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode. Clean Simple Eats: Shop Clean Simple Eats protein powder and use code POPAPOLOGISTS for 10% off! Earlybird: Click here to try Earlybird CBD/THC gummies and use code POP20 for 20% off. BetterHelp: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Build your support system with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com/popapologists to get 10% off your first month. Cozy Earth: Visit CozyEarth.com/POP and use our exclusive code POP for 40% off best-selling sheets, towels, pajamas, and more. Quince: Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince! Go to quince.com/apologist for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Progressive: See if you can save some money at Progressive.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: What is the history behind Socialite Rank?
And it was about, it just sort of documented what I wrote about in the book, which was this like chaotic fight to like basically be ranked, which I just thought it was such a good metaphor for kind of the way that we all live now and just the way that social media, this was like way pre-social media, but it was like how it all ended up.
Well, and what they discovered was that it was not someone within their circle. It was like two random Russian immigrants. Right. And what you said in the book was like, these are people that, you know, these socialites really honestly wouldn't be super interested in their opinion otherwise. But all of a sudden they were just like racing for these people's validation.
And that was itself, I think, very intriguing.
Yeah, I just thought it was it was sort of this example of like for the first time an anonymous random basically to nobodies could upend this sort of like social hierarchy. And also like we are all basically judged by randoms on the Internet of people that we probably wouldn't care about their opinion if we knew who they were. But yet we take it to heart.
So, yeah, it was it was fun to go back and report on that.
Now, it's such an interesting phenomenon, and it's so interesting how I think that people generally want that attention. They want that fame. They want that notoriety. It's a part of human nature that is maybe some people call it unsavory, but it's just something that seems to... Like what do they say?
Like you can get money and you get power, but like fame is that one thing that people also still seem to chase. Like you think about like a Kathy Hilton joining Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. It's just the hunger for it can be like a part of people's DNA. Right. The thirst, if you will.
What's interesting about that website is like maybe before that, you could compare it to like a People magazine or like a publication was like dispensing of these photos. But suddenly it was like in the hands of the Internet. And then it was also not about like A-list actors, which is kind of like all the general society maybe cared about or like, you know.
But now it was like anybody could care about these like random New Yorkers who you wouldn't otherwise be exposed to.
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Chapter 2: How did mommy bloggers change the influencer landscape?
And now you see like, I don't know, the Hawk Tua girl, I know she got canceled for her crypto scam, but it's like she speed ran that like viral fame cycle like so quickly.
There's very clearly, you know, now a pathway where it's like, first, then you get a few sponsorships and you maybe start a podcast, whatever. But to this idea that memes like, you know, reflect or shape societal values. I think one huge recent example of that is like Luigi. Yeah. Yeah.
And just like the way that the conversation online was just like idolizing him and everything just reflected the general distaste people have for big health care.
And it was so interesting to see that versus the mainstream media, which had the complete opposite take and like how completely out of step those like mainstream news orgs were with the public sentiment.
Right, right. I also feel like it just clearly indicated this like widespread, just real problem of the discrepancy in wealth and people's access to health care and just societal dis-ease and like late stage capitalism like you've discussed. And it just shows a little bit of like a sea change in how people perceive those in power and how they might even cheer on the death of someone. like that.
I mean, I was literally walking up the subway steps today and like free Luigi is like written on the subway tiles. It's just, it's fascinating. That would, I think that was one of the most interesting things that happened last year. What do you think about AI creators and the future being AI podcasts, AI creators?
I feel like when it comes to all of that stuff, I do think that people really don't want to feel like they're listening to a robot. They don't want to feel like they're listening to a computer. I don't think they want to think they're looking at a computer's taste. I think that a huge value of the internet is the connection point, is that social bond, if it's a parasocial bond. And I I don't know.
Part of me feels like with a lot of these kind of like dystopian visions of the future where people just live with their AR goggles on or AV goggles on, they don't actually come to pass. Like Apple like basically is canceling their augmented reality glasses or goggles. It's kind of over. NFTs are done. No one actually really cares about having digital art in a digital gallery people can view.
So I think sometimes maybe like these calls for the future being so technological are like a little bit extreme or unwarranted.
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Chapter 5: What is the impact of AI on content creators?
That was really, like, her origin story. And that was when she was married to Topper Mortimer. And, I mean, Socialite Rank made her and Olivia Palermo famous. And I think it's so funny, too, because both of them ended up going, sort of, like, becoming influencers, but in different ways. Like, she went the reality TV route. Olivia also was on reality. She was on, I think it was The City.
But it's just funny how, like, when you were famous at that time, the only thing that there really was to do was, like, get sucked up into the reality TV ecosystem. Like, there was no, like... Social media. Social media to like really launch your brand on or like monetize or, you know.
I mean, there was no way for you to really control it. You would go via the way of like either a snarky website or I guess like the publications that were putting out the photos.
Yeah.
Which it just is, again, back to the point of like,
these women who have everything they still they don't care they're like I don't care if I have no editorial control I'll go on a reality show where I could be villainized I will kind of do whatever it takes because it doesn't matter if I'm like the daughter of a real estate tycoon like Olivia Palermo is or if I'm like very you know if I'm born into a lot of wealth like Tinsley Mortimer I still I want this extra thing right well yeah and this extra thing is to like be beloved or at least to be known by the public
And then you have people like us who have to hustle. three reels a day for some scraps of comparison. And like, we talk about this a lot, but now we kind of feel like the ultimate luxury is getting to be offline fully and fully not needing to monetize yourself in any way online.
Totally. I feel like there was so much discourse when like that New York magazine, the recent cover went viral of like that girl, this Alabama sorority girl that was pictured on the cover of New York mag. But people found her Instagram and she had, like, I think she had a locked account with, like, 250 followers or something. Or she locked it very quickly.
But people were like, okay, she's, like, probably actually rich because she only has, like, a couple hundred thousand followers or a couple hundred followers. And that's, like, the true luxury status symbol.
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Chapter 7: What does it mean to be an influencer in today's digital landscape?
The people who are like, she's so rich, you know, she recommends things that are outrageously expensive. It's kind of like, yeah, exactly. She's super rich. They're going to be rich people. My favorite Gwyneth Paltrow quote is I can't pretend to make $25,000 a year.
It's true. And do we want her to? No, we really do not. We don't.
Well, well, well, we are so excited because today we have Taylor Lorenz joining Pop Apologist. Taylor is a former New York Times and Washington Post reporter who covers internet culture. She wrote the book Extremely Online, The Untold Story of Fame, Influence, and Power on the Internet.
She hosts the Power User Podcast, and Taylor writes a sub-sack newsletter called User Mag, which we follow and love. Thank you. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Of course. I have to tell you, I was listening to Extremely Online. It is so captivating. It is such a good book.
It's so informational and educational, but I also feel like it's like if you grew up on the internet, it's just like so profoundly interesting to hear how this all came to be. I feel like it like fills in the gaps. It's like I'm taking a college course on like the internet experience I lived as like a teen. major.
Yeah.
And it makes me feel smarter, like looking back at that, like critical time that we all like live through. It's kind of crazy.
I know I heard from so many people. I think if you're like 40 and under, you experience so many of these online moments like drama get in or like Vine shutting down or whatever. But, you know, you're not paying attention to the context in real time. Right. And it's like there was just so yeah, it's It was just, there was so much that happened. I had so much fun writing it.
It was like down memory lane. Yeah.
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