Pop Apologists
252: Is Luigi Mangione a Vigilante Hero or Murderer? Everything We Know
Wed, 11 Dec 2024
Lauren and Chan share updates and happenings that are both very New York in nature. The gals share their sadness over the end of the Eras Tour and what they think is coming next for Taylor. (10:37) They dive into the story that has gripped the nation, the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson and the arrest of Luigi Mangione, including the lesser-known manifesto that gives additional insight to his alleged motive. (15:52) Finally, they discuss recent news of Jay-Z being named in the Diddy lawsuit, Jay-Zās response, and thoughts on associating with the morally bankrupt. (40:49) Shop Clean Simple Eats protein powder and use code POPAPOLOGISTS for 10% off! To support the show, consider subscribing on Patreon or on Apple Podcasts, where you can get a bonus episode of Pop Apologists every Friday! Please note this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Chapter 1: What are the updates on Taylor Swift's Eras Tour?
Well, well, well. Let me just start. Thank you for attempting. Well, well, well. Your voice has somehow gotten worse. Well, that's why I stopped because I was just like, this sounds so bad. You need to be the one to do the well, well, well. Yeah. It's okay. It's really not great. It's not great, everyone.
I'm going to do my best to try to provide some sort of like vocal texture today instead of just like the hollowness that I feel. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to work hard, though, to bring in that voice because we're here. We're here. We're recording. OK, we've got a lot to get into, a lot to discuss. So much to get into. Obviously, this has been a huge week in the country. All right. In the world.
The world is really watching the country these days. So true. So this week we're going to be talking about the cold blooded murder of Brian Thompson by allegedly Luigi Mangione. So quick question. Are we going to spend the duration of the episode talking about Luigi? We're going to spend a huge chunk of it. But right now we're going to chat first. Okay. Thank you. I was confused. I didn't know.
I'm a little bit blind to today's episode. Okay. Just what our listeners want to hear. Well, I'm blind to this subject a little bit more. I'm up to speed with the other subjects. I actually thought some of the biggest news was the Jay-Z stuff. We do need to get into that. So we're going to get into that as well. Yeah.
But let's just quickly catch up house, not even housekeeping, but I guess friendship housekeeping. How are you? Doing great. Last night was my first night in the new unit, in the new apartment. So happy, loving being officially not a tourist in New York. No, I'm obsessed with the place. I can't wait to show everyone.
Yesterday was just like extremely chaotic, stressful, just unpacking and getting everything situated. Yeah. We had a lovely day together. Are you going to mention me? I was going to say you were there, so it feels weird to tell you about it. That's all you got to say is that I was there. I mean, you guys, it was so cute. Chandler was like, I want to be there for the first day.
It's okay if you cry. I don't think that's going to happen, but I did find it to be super cute. Chandler was like so excited for me when she came over. And when I got upstairs because she, you know, got in without me basically randomly while I was checking out something downstairs or getting a package.
Anyway, I walked in and there was a beautiful little welcome package from her with a homemade baked loaf of bread, of sourdough bread, some gorgeous peppermint Oreos, and a beautiful, beautiful vase of flowers. So anyway, it was so, so nice. Thank you, Chandler. Why am I talking like this? That last little part made it feel like less sincere. Thank you, Julie.
Why don't you clear your throat and say thank you with your chest? It's getting quieter every time. Are we going to make it through this episode? We're going to do our darndest. I'm concerned because you're going to be leading a large section of it, but that's fine. Let me give you some vocal rest right now. Just something that never happens on this podcast. Lauren never has vocal rest.
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Chapter 2: Who is Luigi Mangione and what happened to Brian Thompson?
Okay, so you're looking through vintage... Yeah, I'm just kind of going up and down the aisles, whatever. For unique stuff for the table. Yeah, just for like silver platters and stuff like that. Anyway, but that's not important. What's important is that out of the corner of my eye, I suddenly see... like a scene happening, a scene unfolding.
You know how you just like know something's off, like something's happening? And it was literally five seconds where all of a sudden I see this kid, literally I think he was like 17, rip something from a stall and run away. Wait, what?
Yeah.
So he literally grabbed something. And because I see him like rip it like to where like the table shook. And were they like, was it glued to the table?
I think. Yeah.
Or I think it was like in a box or something. Anyway, he had to like pry it off the table. And then he just starts running and he runs right past me. Whoa. And in that same moment, I see the people who he was just standing by say he just stole that. OK. Yeah. And I don't know what came over me. Oh, my gosh. So he runs past me. And I just go, he just stole something. Of course you did.
You've always been a tattletale. This goes back to, like, our very first experiences together. I'm surprised you didn't tell on me yesterday during my move-in if I, like, did something wrong with the building, you know? Like, oh, she has the wrong detergent in this type of dryer. I'm like, hold it. Washer.
I don't know what, I think there was a part of me that was fight or flight, tell or not to tell. You love rules. And I love rules and I love justice. And I was like, I literally pointed my finger because I was like, I'm not going to let this guy go.
And then what's crazy is that, so obviously I'm like, he just stole something, you know, alerting the people where he's now running to say, hey, a thief is among you. Then the guy from the stand runs after him and then they get in a fist fight. And they're like punching and swinging at each other. And one's got him in a headlock.
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Chapter 3: What details are known about the murder case?
Like I would be the person that's like chop off their arm. Oh gosh. No, you would not. I don't know. Maybe I would have. I just, I didn't like what that revealed about me. I had no mercy. It is really interesting that you, especially in today's climate where all sorts of things happen all over the place. And there's nuance with everything. Yeah.
And with how woke you are, that you were all of a sudden so willing to put yourself in the line of fire, essentially. I was. I was. I don't know. In order to attain the rule of law. I really wanted to bring this to the podcast because I don't know what it means. I don't know if I want to know what it means. I don't know. Maybe it means nothing.
And this was just a simple moment where I also wanted a little bit of a limelight. But anyway, I wanted to bring it up. You might be an attention whore. That's potentially true. No, I don't think that's what was going on. Thieves beware. Yeah. Don't do it in front of Chandler. She will tell on you like she told on me. I mean, I was a tattletale growing up. So yeah, that's the biggest.
Yeah, it's true. I feel absolved myself when I tell. You should start feeling less guilt, period. And then you can save us all a lot of trouble. Okay. The heiress tour concluded. It did. It's done. We need to talk about that before we get to the rest of the episode. Yes. I personally was devastated. There was no announcement. I know.
And people are telling me that I need to give her grace because she's probably tired. But I'm sorry, but she built this cage for us to live in. Oh, OK. That's interesting. You think that she kind of set us up to fail here? I just think that, like, of course, people thought we were going to get some huge announcement, especially after the book fumble. I don't know. It's just it.
And I get I hope she's tired. Like if she's a human being, she's tired and she deserves all the rest. I just thought we were going to get an announcement as well. And I'm kind of disappointed that we didn't. Oh, I think everyone's extremely disappointed that we didn't, especially when they have like cameras filming her the second night in Vancouver on stage. Right, right.
Where it very much looks like, I mean, we've seen cameras filming her and Travis leaving the stadium. So we know there's documentary footage or there's some footage that would be used in a documentary. Maybe they're just doing an expanded version of the movie to feature TTPD. I personally just think it's so interesting that she didn't plan one surprise for the last show.
She's, like, out of surprises. Like, yes, there are surprise songs, but I would have thought that she would have done one just song randomly that looked like a surprise or just something. Or, like, another surprise guest. Yeah. Just something. I think that everyone who thought they were going to get a little something extra on that night totally had every right to think that.
And it's fine if she didn't announce a new album or whatever. But I think, yeah, like there was nothing extra special about it. Like I kind of understand feeling a little disappointed. Totally. Because I would rather go to the last last night than the second to last night because I would think there was going to be something special on the last night. Oh, for sure.
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Chapter 4: What insights does the manifesto provide about the motives?
No, I think 100% because, you know, following whatever announcement she potentially could have made, there was going to be another then cycle of things. And maybe she really does just want to let the dust settle from, you know, the fairy dust because it has been so incredible. And I don't want this to like undercut anything, how special the last two years have been. I mean, it is crazy. Two years.
It's a long time. It's a long time. It's a long time. And it's really sad, I think, for a lot of us because now we're just like, okay, we're going back to the dark ages. We're going back to the Joe adjacent times when we never saw her. No, because Travis will have things. Donna's got her movies. That's true. Like, we're going to be seeing them. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it is the end of an era. It is.
It is. And the start of an age. And I think that the fact that she kept the energy alive for so long really didn't cancel any shows out of tiredness. Oh, thank you for bringing that up. I thought about that on the train here. Like, it's a miracle she didn't have to cancel any shows. Like, it's not even like tiredness.
Like, even if I was Taylor Swift right now, if I had this voice, it's not like I could perform. No. No. Absolutely not. God had his hands in her being able to do all the shows. Because she never even just got a cold. I know. I'm sure she got a cold. She got a cold. She just pushed through. You can't push through. OK, maybe she didn't get like laryngitis or something. I don't have laryngitis.
I have a cold. I feel like they have remedies and they've got like Dr. Feelgood or something. I feel like celebrities can get like a shot of something crazy, some crazy vitamin cocktail and be OK for a couple hours. I need someone super rich in the audience to verify. But that is true. I mean, she could have gotten like strep or something. And it just would have been impossible for her to perform.
Yeah. Okay. Well, anyway, speaking of care for the ill, let's take a subway. It's so funny. I saw a headline today that was like, Bill Belichick, whatever, considers UNC job. And I'm like, wait, he's going to go be the new CEO of UHC? But then I was like, no, UNC.
Anyway.
What is the UNC? I think it's a football team. Oh, okay. That was a hilarious little tale. I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe they're already ready to replace the CEO who just got killed with Bill Belichick. Belichick, I don't know. Well, you know. You can leave that and you can keep it out. Whatever. UnitedHealthcare, clearly, they're after value for their shareholders, the bottom line.
Apparently, they deny double what the normal rate is in healthcare. So anyway, everyone, obviously, we have, of course, now moved on. Yeah. Look, let's just say really quick, we tried to make the turn from Taylor Swift to this Luigi alleged killer a couple of times. And it's a tough segue for us.
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Chapter 5: How has the public reacted to the murder of a CEO?
OK, but on the bullet casings, they changed the last word to depose, which means to like swiftly get rid of somebody. Oh, really? Is that what depose means? Well, there's two meanings. There's obviously the law meaning of being questioned. And then, you know, depose can also be defined as to remove from office suddenly and forcefully. Really? So that's what I thought it was.
I thought the depose was like the kind of like zinger, if you will, about this act. That's got to be what he intended it to mean then. Right. Like you think you're going to delay and deny our claims.
Right.
Right. And our coverage. And then you think you're going to defend yourself. And I'm actually going to depose of you. Depose. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, we're going to get to it. But the manifesto sheds a lot of light on this person's state of mind, on Luigi's state of mind. So the victim, Brian Thompson, was CEO of United Health Group, as we said, and he had two sons.
The NYPD and the FBI both offered rewards for the arrest of the suspect. Ten grand from the NYPD and 50 grand from the FBI. I think that what was interesting and kind of shocking to everyone was how the Internet, you know, before it became a thing that he was hot. Yeah. Before that was something that was a big part of the conversation. The people were still cheering on this act of violence.
Oh, yeah. It was like this guy had it coming. Yeah, exactly. This is like one of the most hated CEOs, C-suite people and, you know. This is the type of person who has it coming for them. Well, and I think that United Health Group, if they really have 2x the average rate of denials of other companies, it makes it even more blatant what this was all about. Right. There's clearly a pattern.
with this particular company. And I think I don't want to speak out of my depth here because I don't know a lot about this subject, but I just, you know, obviously healthcare is a broken thing in the United States and is a broken system. And people have a lot of discontentment with it and feel like the healthcare companies just take advantage of them.
I think that the tricky thing is, is you've never experienced what it's like to not be able to afford your medical care and have a health insurance company that you've paid faithfully monthly, essentially like denying you coverage, which you and I both have been lucky enough to be healthy. Yeah. We've never experienced, I would say, any type of extreme health issues. Yeah.
And I think no extreme situations with health care companies. I will say, though, I do know what it's like after working in a couple different corporate jobs to have baseline insurance and then what it's like to have great insurance and how it feels super arbitrary what you get. Like, depending on the job you work at, your company provides you with health insurance, right?
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of healthcare companies' practices?
It was not just, like, I think it's worth noting that this wasn't, obviously, it was, like, you know, a security camera still, but it was everywhere. Right. Like, I could probably do a sketch from memory of this guy.
Right.
Just from all the memes I saw. Yeah. Well, and I think that it got meme-ified because he looked really cute in the photo. Mm-hmm. That's right. Like wildfire that he was hot. OK, so police arrived to the McDonald's and found that Luigi had multiple fraudulent ideas on him, a U.S.
passport, a firearm and a suppressor similar to what was used in the murder and a handwritten document that speaks to both his motivation and his mindset. So according to the New York Times, the manifesto found on Luigi Mangione mentions UnitedHealthcare by name, noting the size of the company and how much money it makes, according to a senior law enforcement official who saw the document.
The manifesto also broadly condemns healthcare companies for placing profits over care. So a little bit about this 26 year old. He's from a wealthy Baltimore family and attended high school at the Gilman School in Baltimore, where tuition is nearly 40 grand a year. He was an athlete and also class valedictorian. He attended Penn for his bachelor's and his master's degree.
So what's interesting, I think, and captivating everyone so much is that this is a guy who does not really fit the bill for what you would expect. Usually, you know, like the Unabomber and like the... They're like outcasts. They're total outcasts, exactly, and losers. And this guy was, by all accounts, a real winner. Yeah.
He lived and worked in Honolulu, where he worked remotely as an engineer for Trucar and lived in a co-living community. So like a what are those called? I think it's like a commune. Right. I don't. Yeah. I mean, I don't have any details. I can get into the details of his arrest.
Officers found a 3D printed pistol and a 3D printed silencer in his backpack consistent with the firearm used in the shooting of Brian Thompson. First of all, that is really scary to me that the mortar weapon was potentially 3D printed. There was also a three-page written manifesto, and the police said, quote, it does seem that he has some ill will towards corporate America. End quote.
Police have not named a formal motive in the killing of Thompson. In the manifesto, though, Luigi allegedly admitted to working alone, stating, quote, to the feds, I'll keep this short because I do respect what you do for our country. To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone.
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Chapter 7: What does Luigi Mangione's background reveal?
So Kagan, can you call him? Kagan's back pain is not nearly that bad. Okay. To where it's, you know. You just have to be on top all the time. I just thought that would bring a moment of levity and it sure did. Yeah. Well, Chrissy and my mind were on the exact same page because I was like, oh, Kagan can speak to this because I know he has back pain. Yes.
I think that back pain obviously ranges in how debilitating it is and its pain level. It's a monolith. Anyway, I just thought that was like very cute and funny. Okay. So Luigi had withdrawn from his family and friends.
Mm-hmm.
before this incident for a matter of months and there was a clue on his goodreads that you know his state of mind was shifting he actually left a review for the unabomber's book yeah and this review said it's easy to quickly and thoughtlessly write this off as the manifesto of a lunatic in order to avoid facing some of the uncomfortable problems it identifies but it's simply impossible to ignore how prescient many of his predictions about modern society turned out to be
The review also quoted another person's take about how violence is necessary to survive. OK, so the public response to this murder has obviously been outrageous with a lot of people really coming to his defense. OK, the photos of him that have emerged now that he's been identified, he really is gorgeous. He's like the Internet's crush, I would say right now. Menendez brother step aside.
He's looking good. OK, so some of the comments are that I saw on TikTok was he's young and smart. Let's not ruin his very promising future over this because he's like, you know, to pen is obviously very accomplished. I think, too, it sounds like he comes from a wealthy family. Yeah. Which is very interesting to me. Someone put me at the top of the list for his conjugal visit.
How much is his bail set for? I got him. Luigi is not guilty. He was with me all last week. So there's a bunch of funny TikToks. People are like, actually could never have done it. I was with him. And then the only time he left my side was to go feed the homeless. I'm curious, though. Yeah. Was he trying to not get caught?
Like, I want to unpack his being arrested and especially all the things that were on his person when he was arrested. You'd think if you didn't want to get caught. Right. And if you were, you know, hoping that you could deny the crime, if you did get caught, you would get rid of all that stuff. Well... It's such a good point.
And I was listening to a podcast this morning that was kind of taking a more conspiratorial route. And they were like, there's just no way any of this adds up. And I think what their thesis is essentially, because of course the conspiracy theorists are already like, they always have an idea for how this was set up actually by the government so that we can take away gun rights. Right.
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