PBD Podcast
"Billionaires Shouldn’t Exist" - Ben & Jerry’s Founder SLAMS The Rich, Capitalism & Corporate Greed | PBD Podcast | Ep. 560
Wed, 12 Mar 2025
Ben Cohen, co-founder of Ben & Jerry’s, joins Patrick Bet-David to discuss his journey from ice cream mogul to activist. Once a staunch Bernie Sanders supporter, Cohen now backs Elon Musk’s DOGE, challenging big government waste. In this fiery exchange, capitalism vs. socialism takes center stage as Cohen rethinks his stance on government.📕 CELEBRATE NATIONAL READING MONTH: https://bit.ly/43xPwPI👕 GET THE LATEST VT MERCH: https://bit.ly/3BZbD6l📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": https://bit.ly/41rtEV4📰 VTNEWS.AI: https://bit.ly/3OExClZ🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: https://bit.ly/4g57zR2💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time!ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Chapter 1: Who is Ben Cohen and what is his stance on capitalism?
They're so confused right now. They're about to have a drink right now. That's a confuser. You just confused the shit out of them.
I don't think I've ever said this before.
Okay, so, gang, every once in a while I do a podcast where I have no clue where we're going to go. I'm just being very upfront. I have no idea what we're doing today. What I do know is, I don't know if you recognize this brand, Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream. If you've ever had Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream, the founder, Ben, is here today.
Ben Cohen, to kind of tell you an idea about where he's at while we're talking right now. They're from Vermont. I've been to Ben & Jerry's because the insurance company that we're one of the guys that writes the most insurance policies with them, National Life Group, is down the street from you. So I know them. So I've been to Vermont quite a few times. So we go to the headquarters.
We have a good time. We're going to try Ben & Jerry's. I brought a lot of other ice cream that he hasn't seen it yet. I brought Haagen-Dazs. The reason why this is important is because I used to work at Haagen-Dazs back in 94, 95. So there's a certain affinity. I was the number one banana split maker in the entire Glendale Galleria Mall. I was the best.
I had a reputation. You know how to split it down the side? I know how to split it.
I know how to put the strawberry, the ice cream, the chocolate, the nuts on top of it with the Nutella. I was the best.
You know, people have lost the art of making a good banana split. We ought to call you in and you can train our people.
I may make a comeback. I'm telling you, I was very good at that part. But let me tell you what's kind of interesting about this conversation. Tony tells me Ben Cohen from Ben and Jerry's reached out, says he wants to be on the podcast. I said, really? I said, is he not a socialist Bernie Sanders guy? I think he is. I said, why do I think that they're, you know, Vermont, Bernie Sanders? Yeah.
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Chapter 2: How did Ben & Jerry's apply social principles to business?
I'm interested.
I've never Googled it either.
Okay, so Ben and Jerry's salary CEO back in 2000. We're talking... That was at the time that the company got sold. But at the time... the salary was 504. 25 years ago, it was 504, okay? So, which became 17 to 1, all right? So I want you to follow this. So what you just said is, I'm just responding to what you said. So Ben and Jerry's got started.
Originally, you guys wanted to be very noble and, hey, we're not going to pay anybody at the highest level five times more than the lowest level employee. Lowest level makes 30, highest level makes 150. Okay, cool. Nice guys, noble guys. By 2000, you build a business that's doing $200 million a year. You guys are selling it for $326 million.
Then the CEO pay was 17 times the lowest amount the employee was making. So that disparity went from 5 to 1 to 17 to 1. Let's say today, who is today's CEO of Ben & Jerry's? Dave Stever. Is it Dave Stever? What is Dave Stever's? Salary, Dave, Stever, Salary, Ben, and Jerry. If I go to it, I wish I could see it. I wish it was public. It's not showing it.
But let's just say he's making a couple million here.
I don't think he is.
Does he get stocks? Does he get shares? Does he get bonus? Does he get LTIP? I don't think so. But if it was 500,000 25 years ago, Ben, it's not going to be less than 25 years ago. I believe it probably is, but I don't know. I know, but let's just say it's a million bucks. Let's say conservatively it's a million bucks. And let's say the ratio now instead of 17 to 1 is 30 to 1.
So you guys started off 5 to 1. It went 17 to 1. Let's say it's 30, 40 to 1 now. And then at the time you were saying 40 to 1 was what it was in the corporate world. Now it's 400 to 1. You guys have 10x. They have 10x. So what's wrong with that? What's wrong with if you're creating value? Ben, you guys did something that's very difficult.
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Chapter 3: What are the criticisms of wealth disparity in the US?
You're part of the 0.1% thing. You don't want to give up your wealth. You're still keeping it. Here's your friend Bernie. Rob, can you play this clip? Watch this clip.
I'm going to make America healthier than other countries in the world right now.
Will you guarantee do what every other major country does? It's a simple question.
Oh, no.
I thought that that would come. No, no, no, no. I ran for president like you. I got millions and millions of contributions. They did not come from the executives, not one nickel of PAC money from the pharmaceutical industry.
They came from workers. In 2020, you were the single largest receiver of pharmaceutical money.
Because I had four contributions from workers all over this country. Workers, not a nickel from corporate tax. Bernie, you were the single largest acceptor of pharmaceutical dollars. No, from workers in the industry.
1.5 million. Yeah, out of 200 million.
All right, but...
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Chapter 4: How does Ben Cohen view the political landscape?
I think a lot of it is driven by that. I think another part is driven by politicians who are deathly afraid of being called weak on defense. And a lot of this stuff is kind of complex. It's international relations. How do we know how many aircraft carriers we actually need, et cetera, et cetera.
So what ends up happening is that military strength becomes measured in terms of the size of the Pentagon budget. And politicians try to outdo each other from both parties. This is like the one bipartisan area of agreement over the years. You know, the Democrat says, I'm going to spend X amount on the Pentagon. Well, the Republican says, well, I'll spend a little more.
And then the Democrat says, well, I'll spend a little more. And therefore, they're the strongest on defense. You know, before this, I was doing a little prep work. I saw this quote by Eisenhower, Republican President Eisenhower. What was a four star general, five star general who said that. a country can bankrupt itself in the vain effort to achieve absolute security.
You can't achieve absolute security, but continuing to spend our money, I mean, when you think about how much the size of the deficit, so much of that is driven by... Pentagon expenditures, war expenditures. I mean, you know, what one of the I mean, the major thing that kind of brought me here is Trump's statement that he wants to denuclearize. He wants to work with Trump.
the leaders of Russia and I think now Iran and China to reduce nuclear weapons and that he wants to reduce our Pentagon budget very significantly. I mean he said 50 percent. That makes so much sense. I mean, all these countries, they want to help the people who live in their countries.
And when you're spending so much of your money on just preparing to kill other people and the weapons are so fucking expensive, you should excuse me. Yeah. It just saps everything you've got.
It saps your wealth. We're on the same page here. So you're not saying anything. We are fully on the same page. The fact that we are overspending the level of Pentagon accountability. Rob, if you can play one of the clips of the guy saying $90,000 for washers just to validate his point, go for it.
This, Mr. Secretary, is a bag of bushings. This bag of bushings, stamped out by machinists, don't need a high school diploma. There's not anything high-tech about this. All of this bag is compliant with the FAA specifications. How much do you think the Air Force pays for this bag of bushings?
$90,000.
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