Passion Struck with John R. Miles
Dr. Gordon Flett on the Urgent Need to Know You Matter | EP 597
Fri, 11 Apr 2025
In Episode 597 of Passion Struck, host John R. Miles sits down with Dr. Gordon Flett, a pioneering psychologist whose decades of research have shaped our understanding of mattering—the feeling of being seen, valued, and significant.Dr. Flett, author of The Psychology of Mattering and Mattering as a Core Need in Children and Adolescents, explains how mattering is distinct from belonging and self-esteem and why its absence—what he calls “anti-mattering”—can lead to burnout, depression, loneliness, and even hopelessness.For full show notes: https://passionstruck.com/gordon-flett-the-urgent-need-to-know-you-matter/In this profound and deeply personal episode, John and Dr. Flett discuss:The difference between mattering, belonging, and self-esteemWhy feeling unseen or insignificant is a public health issueHow fear of not mattering drives perfectionism and overachievementWhy giving mattering to others is just as important as receiving itStrategies to rebuild mattering after loss, failure, or transitionThis conversation will change how you see yourself—and how you show up for the people around you.Dr. Gordon Flett is one of the world’s leading researchers on the psychology of mattering. A recently retired Distinguished Professor of Psychology at York University, he is the former Honorary President of the Canadian Psychological AssociationConnect with Dr. Gordon Flett: https://health.yorku.ca/health-profiles/?mid=3719Sponsors:Factor Meals: http://factormeals.com/factormeals50off and use code “FACTOR MEALS 50 OFF”Rosetta Stone: Unlock 25 languages for life at “ROSETTASTONE.com/passionstruck.”Prolon: Reset your health with 15% off at “ProlonLife.com/passionstruck.”Mint Mobile: Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at “MINT MOBILE dot com slash PASSION.”Hims: Start your journey to regrowing hair with Hims. Visit hims.com/PASSIONSTRUCK for your free online visit.Quince: Discover luxury at affordable prices with Quince. Enjoy free shipping and 365-day returns at quince.com/PASSIONNext on Passion Struck:In the next episode of Passion Struck, John sits down with Anne Marie Anderson, an Emmy Award-winning broadcaster, sports journalist, and leadership expert. Anne Marie has spent years breaking barriers in sports media, navigating high-stakes environments, and coaching top athletes and executives on leadership, resilience, and communication. In our conversation, we'll dive into the mental frameworks of high performers, the art of storytelling, and how to build confidence in any field.For more information on advertisers and promo codes, visit Passion Struck Deals.Join the Passion Struck Community!Sign up for the Live Intentionally newsletter, where I share exclusive content, actionable advice, and insights to help you ignite your purpose and live your most intentional life. Get access to practical exercises, inspiring stories, and tools designed to help you grow. Learn more and sign up here.Speaking Engagements & WorkshopsAre you looking to inspire your team, organization, or audience to take intentional action in their lives and careers? I’m available for keynote speaking, workshops, and leadership training on topics such as intentional living, resilience, leadership, and personal growth. Let’s work together to create transformational change. Learn more at johnrmiles.com/speaking.Episode Starter PacksWith over 500 episodes, it can be overwhelming to know where to start. We’ve curated Episode Starter Packs based on key themes like leadership, mental health, and personal growth, making it easier for you to dive into the topics you care about. Check them out at passionstruck.com/starterpacks.Catch More of Passion Struck:My solo episode on The Mattering Mindset in Love – Choose the Love You DeserveCan't miss my episode with Jennifer B. Wallace on the Consequences of Prioritizing Achievements Over MatteringMy episode with The Art of Listening: How to Make People Feel Like They MatterCatch my interview with Laurie Santos on How to Matter in a Busy WorldListen to my solo episode on Fading into Insignificance: The Impact of Un-Mattering in Our Interconnected EraIf you liked the show, please leave us a review—it only takes a moment and helps us reach more people! Don’t forget to include your Twitter or Instagram handle so we can thank you personally.How to Connect with John:Connect with John on Twitter at @John_RMilesFollow him on Instagram at @John_R_MilesSubscribe to our main YouTube Channel and to our YouTube Clips ChannelFor more insights and resources, visit John’s websiteWant to explore where you stand on the path to becoming Passion Struck? Take our 20-question quiz on Passionstruck.com and find out today!
Chapter 1: What is mattering and why is it important?
And the other thing that we've been studying lately as an extension of that is the fear of not mattering.
so that you feel like you matter now but you anticipate maybe you won't matter down the road welcome to passion struck hi i'm your host john r miles and on the show we decipher the secrets tips and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you
Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes.
Now, let's go out there and become Passion Struck. Welcome to episode 597 of Passion Struck. Whether you're a long-time listener or joining us for the first time, I am so grateful you're here. You've tuned into a movement dedicated to unlocking your potential, living with intention, and making what truly matters matter most. And today, I have to tell you...
I am absolutely thrilled for this episode. If you've been following me for a while, you know that I've been studying the science of mattering for years. It's one of the most profound and personal topics I've explored on this show, and it's at the very heart of how we build resilient lives, relationships, and communities.
So it's truly an honor and a full circle moment for me to welcome someone I've long admired, someone who literally wrote the book on the subject, Dr. Gordon Flett. Dr. Flett is the author of The Psychology of Mattering, as well as the new book, Mattering as a Core Need in Children and Adolescents.
He recently retired as a distinguished professor of psychology at York University, where he spent decades pioneering research into how the feeling of mattering, of being seen, valued, and significant shapes everything from our mental health and relationships to our sense of identity and purpose.
In our conversation, we explore what mattering truly means and why it's different from self-esteem, belonging, or mere connection. the profound emotional and psychological toll when we experience anti-mattering and how loneliness, depression, and anxiety often stem from feeling overlooked or underappreciated.
We go into practical, actionable ways we can enhance our own sense of mattering even during life's most difficult seasons. We discuss why reciprocal relationships are so vital and how giving mattering to others can transform our own lives. And lastly, we go deep into understanding mattering at the societal level and how it could reshape education, workplaces, and communities for the better.
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Chapter 3: Why is the concept of anti-mattering significant?
And so I immediately started Googling you and reading everything I could get my hands on that you had produced. And you are at the epicenter of this nascent world of studying mattering, which I think is one of the most important concepts that we need today. So I was hoping with that as a backdrop, Gordon, that we could start at the beginning.
Sure.
As I've done research, you first discovered the concept of mattering as a graduate student in the late 80s. Can you describe that moment? of when you discovered it and why it resonated so deeply?
It was fortuitous in the sense that I was a member of a club, one of the publishers that had discount books for graduate students. And I saw this book on the self and I sent off for it at the low price that they were offering it for, along with the provision to don't share it with others. And I came across this chapter by Morris Rosenberg, who was the person who originated the concept of mattering.
And in that chapter, there was five pages and He gave the impression that here's this totally neglected element of the self that's so relevant to people of all ages, so predictive. And I just filed that away thinking, well, why aren't people studying this? But then I left alone. I had to finish my work, my dissertation on depression. And then later we were doing a project on depression.
the transition to college. And I'm actually just finishing a paper on transition and the role of mattering as a key resource. And I said, one of the postdoctoral students said, hey, I came across the scale on mattering. And immediately the light bulb went off. And I said, yeah, we need to be including this.
And at the same time, I was asked to be the researcher for a provincial program on developing a resilience prevention program and encouragement program for young people and we were kicking around concepts and I said, well, there's this concept of mattering and with educators, they knew exactly what I was talking about.
It's tied into the idea of the one caring adult who can change a kid's life like Oprah Winfrey did with her teacher who she had on her second last show. So we included it as well. And while we were looking at that's when I also came up with the idea that just as important it is to feel like you matter. The feeling of not mattering is also something that sticks with you at a very deep level.
So we started measuring it there. but aside from that i'd say that i look back and i said was i being prepared to realize that this was a concept i was very fortunate to be raised by loving parents and grandparents and we actually had the two grandparents and my aunt in the house growing up so i had surrounded by adults and my my paternal grandmother
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