Not Gonna Lie with Kylie Kelce
Kylie on Inevitable Minivan Future, Online Clapbacks & Body Neutrality with Drew Afualo | Ep. 4
Thu, 02 Jan 2025
Kylie’s back for her fourth episode of Not Gonna Lie presented by Dunkin’ and “shockingly” isn’t a New Year’s resolutions person so instead, she’s starting off this episode and the year 2025 with her official list of “Ins & Outs” (1:46). Kylie gets honest about the inevitability of a Kelce family minivan once baby number four arrives, her go-to drink at a bar and the one makeup item she’s stayed true to since 2007. She then declares what’s out in 2025, highlighting the worst types of baby clothes and the Dallas Cowboys postseason (7:22). Then, Drew Afualo, viral content creator, hit podcast host and New York Times bestselling author, joins Kylie to talk about her beginnings on TikTok and being named to Forbes’ 30 Under 30 list (13:19). Kylie and Drew then delve into their mutual love-hate relationship with social media comment sections (19:56). Since Drew made a name for herself by creating viral “clapback” video responses to rude commenters, Kylie has Drew “Coach Her Up” in a new segment (23:35). Drew then bonds with Kylie over their shared experiences being bullied growing up for being tall (33:56). Drew explains how she’s since changed her thinking about body image and how she now views words like “fat” and “big” (39:05). As Kylie mentions, these episodes are capped at 45 minutes so you can find even more exclusive, never-before-seen clips from her conversation with Drew Afualo on YouTube on Monday. Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing! . . . Support the Show: DUNKIN’: Try Kylie’s favorite Butter Pecan Iced Coffee at your local Dunkin’! Order in store or order ahead of time on the Dunkin’ app. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.
Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan, equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.
Not gonna lie, I've hit the time in pregnancy where your body starts sleep training you. I have been up between the hours of two and four for the last two weeks. I'm running on nothing. I'm on E, guys. So... take everything I say with a grain of salt. Let's get this podcast started. Welcome back to Not Gonna Lie, a wave original brought to you by Duncan.
If you missed me this past week, just know the feeling is mutual, but I'm back and I'll never leave you guys again, except for when I go on maternity leave. Or should we record episodes then too? Wouldn't that be funny? With like black circles under my eyes and just trying to keep my eyelids open. I'm going to need some toothpicks to pry these eyelids open.
Right now, it's a brand new year, but I'm your same old host, Kylie Kelsey. Lifelong Philadelphian, current pregnant person. You can't see it. It's down there. She popped and a huge fan, huge of the Transformers film franchise. I love it. As always, make sure you follow us on social media at NGL with Kylie and subscribe to Not Gonna Lie on YouTube.
We're posting clips throughout the week, including some never before seen moments on what we like to call more shit Mondays. Shocker, it comes out on Monday. Coming up on today's episode, I'll be joined by one of my favorite content creators, Drew Afoalo.
We're going to talk about our mutual love-hate relationship with comment sections, clapping back online, and changing the narrative when it comes to body image. But before we get to all of that, I know it's the new year, but no surprise here. I'm not big on resolutions. And to be honest... Queen Emma wrote this rundown and included the fact that I am not a resolution person just on the vibe.
And Emma nailed it. Absolutely nailed it. I'm not a resolution person. I don't know if it's my short attention span or the fact that I like to just tackle life as it comes along. But I can't plan for a whole year. And for like the short term resolutions, that's what Lent is for. Okay. We're lucky I can do something for 40 days.
I figured I could still get into the spirit though, by giving you guys my official list of ins and outs for 2025. And yes, I know this was a trend from last year, but I didn't have a podcast last year. And also everyone knows that moms are like at least a couple of weeks behind. So just cut me some slack and I'll kick it off on a positive note with my top ins for 2025. Number one,
As much as it pains me to say minivans, I said what I said. And for the people, my friends who are hearing this, um, I don't need a wellness check. Although I have told you before that that is what it would take. If I ever said I was getting a minivan, here's the problem. I'm about to have four car seats. in one car. And we're going to, we're going to do a little three-year commitment guys.
We're going to do three years. We're going to grind it out and then we're going to pretend it never happened. Okay. And for those of you who are minivan lovers, like my husband, and think that I'm going to get a minivan and then I'm going to stick with the minivan forever. Well, we'll just have to wait and see. Number two, Shirley Temples.
Shirley Temples will always be in 2025 and then forever, okay? I'm not talking about a dirty Shirley. I want to make that abundantly clear. Don't you dare taint my Shirley Temple with a shot of anything.
not a single thing okay shirley temples are one of the most delightful refreshing i'm not even a soda person but i love a shirley temple if i go somewhere and there is a full bar you can guarantee i am getting a shirley temple i don't make them at home it's like a special treat when you go somewhere I love a Shirley Temple. Shirley Temples are in. 2025, Shirley Temples.
In number three, I think might be the most obvious, women's sports. 2024 was an outstanding year of people rallying behind not only female athletes, but women's sports in general. Some of the most watched programming for women's sports ever. Record setting. And so you know what? I say we carry it into 2025. And then set more records. Keep tuning in. Keep supporting these female athletes.
Keep driving the narrative that these strong women athletes are exactly what should be on our TV screens and on our phones and in the public eye. And to the women athletes who are doing exactly that, You guys are nailing it. Great work. Keep it up because I got three, almost four little ladies who are going to have eyes on you. So I need you to keep it going. Let's keep supporting women's sports.
Number four, the same type of mascara I've been using since 2007. That's right. I've been using the same brand of mascara since high school. I don't plan on changing my ways anytime soon. In 2025, she stays. Okay. For those of you wondering, I do have it right here because our pre-show every single week has involved me putting on my mascara. Number five, read receipts turned on.
I did say read receipts. I understand that a younger demographic calls them read receipts. I'm sticking with read receipts. I use it as a personal check. Anyone in my life has received the warning of if I do not text you back and I have read your text message. I need you to text me again. Because in my brain, I answered.
I'm fully on board with letting people know that I've seen your text message. Because if I was supposed to answer, I need you to tell me again. That's it for ins. Let's move on to outs. The first one, not going to shock you. Number one, The Dallas Cowboys. I mean, they're literally out. Not even in playoff contention anymore. And if you are a fellow Birds fan, we can all just smile and nod.
Smile and nod. Number two, Cybertrucks. It looks like a dumpster on wheels. I have driven one. It's not even a smooth ride, guys. So yeah, no, those can stay in 2024. Number three, Cocomelon. I know that there is a very, this one is controversial. I think this might be the most controversial one. I know that there is a huge population of people who swear by Cocomelon.
But if you ask my kids if they are allowed to watch Cocomelon, they will tell you no because we don't Cocomelon in our house. I'm not here to tell you what to do with your kids. If you guys watch Cocomelon, all you. But I'm going to put my two cents in. I think we should leave it in 2024. All I'm saying is go Miss Rachel.
Anyway, number four, any baby clothes that are not zippered and diving even further into that, the zipper should go both ways. With 2025 bringing the fourth Kelsey girl, we've done the newborn phase three other times at this point. I know how deeply enraged an infant gets when you change their diaper.
And if you can manage that, even the tiniest amount by not exposing their entire chest to the cold air, we're doing zippers guys. We're doing zippers up and down. And for those of you who are not moms or not moms yet, if you ever need to purchase a baby gift, up and down.
That means one zip comes from the top, and then there's still another zipper at the foot, because then you can unzip it from the foot, let their little leggies out, do a diaper change, put them back in, zip them right back up. The snaps at 3 a.m., sick joke. Sick joke. I don't know who snaps that baby back up and nails the alignment on the first try.
At 3 a.m., we're lucky my one eye was open for that baby change. Okay? That baby change happened with one eye. You think that I'm going to align snaps? Not me. It will not be me. So zippies, guys. Zippers. All day. Both directions. Number five of the outs for 2025, giving a buck. I said it and I meant it. Okay. We got to say, given a fuck is it's not the vibe guys.
If, if something doesn't make you better or enrich your life or enrich the life of others, That's to go. I don't give a flying fuck. And I mean that from deep in my heart. Because giving a fuck is out in 2025. And I hope other people can get on board with that. That does it for my 2025 ins and outs. Let us know how I did. And maybe what your ins and outs are for 2025.
You can tag us at NGL with Kylie with your favorites and any additions. I'm not shy about my Duncan obsession. I'd shout it from the rooftops if I could. And it turns out the apple fritter doesn't fall far from the tree because my kids are also huge fans of Duncan Runs. I rarely take the girls with me, but when I get back with that box, they are locked in. They know exactly what's happening.
And I will get shaken down until each of them has their chocolate frosted sprinkled donut right in their hand. Do I have one that only eats the frosting off? Yes. But one of these days, she's going to eat the whole donut and I'm going to keep buying them until she does.
Whether you're headed out solo to try some of my favorites like the butter pecan iced coffee or glazed donuts or those apple fritters. Don't sleep on them. Or you just want to take the whole family to try, you can head to your local Dunkin' today. Order ahead of time on the Dunkin' app or order in person at your local Dunkin' location. Moving on. it's now time to bring on my guest.
She's a content creator, New York Times bestselling author, and podcast host with over 8 million followers on TikTok. She also shares my greatest passions for uplifting other women and a well-deserved clapback. Drew, thank you so much for joining us on Not Gonna Lie today.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor to be a part of the Kelsey universe, period.
Oh gosh, isn't it horrible? Right? First of all, I'm not going to lie. It's so nice to see your whole face because every so often you'll pop on my For You page and it's just the top half first and then you get into it. There is something so iconic about how we get to... basically laugh together. Like whenever you laugh in your clapbacks, I'm like, this is absolute gold. Right.
That's me Pavloving everyone. My laugh elicits a laugh, you know. It is perfection.
Thank you. I still remember the first couple of times I saw you on TikTok and hearing not only how you absolutely tore people limb from limb, like just absolutely annihilated them. Right. But did it in such an eloquent and articulate way that it just was like one of those where you're like, how can you not be obsessed with this?
How can you not just want to keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling your entire, like a doom scroll of your entire feed? Um, I am just so impressed with the fact that not only the way that you stand up for yourself, but the way you stand up for others. It is someone who is about to have their fourth daughter.
It is such a breath of fresh air to see like the generation of women that are coming through right now of just like who are willing to say, fuck you. Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. That's so sweet. Congratulations, by the way.
Thank you.
Fourth baby.
Thank you. We're just raising an army of women. It's fine.
Period. Get into it. I'm at the helm. I'm at the front. I'll lead from the front.
That's it. That's what we need. While I'm listing all your accolades, here's one more. You were just on the cover of the Forbes 30 Under 30 content creators. First of all, what is it like to still be under 30? Because I swear to God, I'm 24. I'm actually 32. But my brain is like, you're 24 forever.
Right. That's fair. That's easy. I feel like you can start counting backwards whenever you want. Perfect. I did get in under the wire. That's for sure. Because I'm 29. But yeah, it was an honor. It was crazy. I've worked with Forbes a couple times now. So it's really cool and very rewarding. Given what I do and the niche that I have to be... like rewarded and accolade like Forbes 30 under 30.
I think that's fucking awesome to be quite, quite honest with you.
So now when you first posted your viral red flags, TikTok, did you have a feeling that that was going to hit the way it did?
Honestly? No. Like when I, when that one first took off, I was a little, I was just kind of overwhelmed because I, like I said, I'm 29. So I grew up on the internet. For the most part, I mean, I remember the era of YouTubers and Vine and all of that. So I had no concept of how to like deal with that because I was so aggressively normal before this happened to me.
So I had no way of knowing what it was going to turn into literally at all. I just was having a good time. I was having a silly, goofy time. And it looks like everyone else was having a goofy time with me. So it worked out.
Everyone was on the ride with you. Right. They were enjoying it. I will say the, specifically the Wolf of Wall Street reference. Period. Was one of those where you're just like, I've never thought of that. Yeah. That one's a huge. Holy shit, that hits. Yeah, that's a huge one. Like I dare you to pound your chest to me. I dare you. Right, for real.
They're like, sell me this pen. You know, they're big, big fans of that. Do it. That one, I think the wearing a backwards hat in the pool is a big hit.
um and being a big big fan of tom brady like just specifically tom brady not pats or bucks specifically tom brady yeah he's got problems so that was like i think the first time i i made one that was so specifically niche because jokes like that make me laugh and i think that's what resonated with people now you are also a podcast host with two hit shows yes and
Can we talk about the names of your podcast? Because I've shared how hard it was for me to decide on a name for this show. Right. Yeah. So you have a show with your sister. You co-host with your sister called Two Idiot Girls. Yes.
Yes, I do.
And how did you guys come to that?
For that name, I forget where the joke came from. But my sister and I, anytime we would do anything remotely silly or just like, oh my God, why would I ever do that? Anytime we would do anything like that, we'd be like, idiot girl. That's what we would just tell each other. I would tell myself that. We would tell each other that. It's to be funny.
And so we would call each other idiot girls all the time. And so we're like, well, there's two of us. There you go. And then we looked it up. Does anyone else have it? No? Perfect. So we decided it years ago and now we're married to it. It's fine. So it worked out, I think.
I love seeing you and your sister on your podcast because I only have one sister. And to see you guys sort of like... that like giggle that takes over or like you sort of say stuff under your breath to each other. And it's like, it is the most sisterly connection. Totally.
Yeah.
Many. Right. Many dudes in your comments over the years. Do you have any favorites that stick out?
Oh, man, that's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. Some of my highlight reels in my head, like once I made one about a guy and I said that he said that he looked like he had the suds. Like I was asked, I said, like, he, he looked like he was being held together by prayer. Um, I, I truly made myself laugh so hard. I started crying, which is not like, that sounds like me.
That sounds like me jerking myself off. Whatever. I don't give a fuck. This shit was funny. And you know what's funny? I said he looked like the ferryman on the river Styx, which that's a real niche joke. And anyone who knows anything about like Greek gods, they ate that joke up. But that one kind of got lost in the shuffle a little bit.
But someone in the comments of that video said that he, they said it's giving part of the crew part of the ship, which is like a Pirates of the Caribbean reference. Dog, I laughed so fucking hard. I still think about that to this day. That's one of my faves. Oh, this is a fun topical one. Once I, this dude made, he attacked me for no reason, made like a whole long video, said awful shit about me.
Story as old as time itself. And I kind of just shot in the dark, like just based off what he looks like. That's typically what I do. But I said, he looked like an old lineman at a D3 school who doesn't play. And that's a very funny sports joke. And my audience doesn't always get sports jokes, but some of them do. And that one spun him out. Outstanding. Right. You get that joke. It's hilarious.
And what's crazy about that joke is that he spun out. He made like 15 videos about me after. He was so angry. But in the video, my fiance ended up looking him up. He really was an O-lineman at a D3 school and had no stats recorded for that year. And I said... I shot in the dark and I hit your bitch ass, didn't I? Yeah. Yeah.
When I tell you quit playing with me, when I tell you quit playing with me, like I mean that shit. So like I, I really, I shot in the dark completely and I hit him. So that's, that's also one of my best ones. I think there's a whole, I have a whole Rolodex, but like, yeah, those are some of my tops.
The idea of like nailing that so spot on. Right.
That's what I'm saying.
With such like a niche, like that niche, like... Precision.
Wow. Right. I'm telling you. Outstanding. That's why I feel like I've told men before, like... I, the insults they like levy at me are so low hanging fruit. It's always fat and ugly. It's fat and ugly and 50,000 different fonts. Like, it's just like that in a million different ways.
Um, and I've told people before, if you really want to stick, stick it to a man, when you insult him, you got to get up here. You got to get, you got to get real specific, like so deeply specific. Like instead of saying like, Oh, I bet it's small. I always tell people you could say something like you look like you wear a size eight shoe. very specific.
We still get there. Yeah, exactly. We still get there, but it is something that I'm sure they've looked down at their feet and been like, shit. Yeah, exactly.
It's things they care about so deeply. Women care about a lot of things like that too, but women don't typically think of that when they're insulting men. So I was like, don't worry, y'all. Trust me when I say it doesn't sound that mean, but it's going to live up here.
This is actually perfect. This is the perfect segue into, um, uh, a segment that we would like to call coach me up.
Okay. T let's do it.
So I have been known to respond to comments on occasion. Specifically, one that hit a little hard was one I did on TikTok, where I just sort of called out some article titles and some tabloids where I was like, you're wrong. And you look dumb. I did not quite... Right. Totally. Yeah. Just like with sports, I feel like 90% of this is a mental game. Like you said, you got to get deep in there.
And I do find that most of the time, specifically in the comment section, when people want to bring in, let's be honest, they're bullshit. Mm-hmm. It often is based on like, you didn't, you didn't have to say that. Yeah. You could, you could have just kept scrolling, but you came in here specifically to bring, like drag someone else down. Yeah, totally. Just for your own personal gain.
The fact that people still do it in your comment section. Right. Yeah. Is one of the most appalling... Just say you're a moron without saying you're a moron. Right.
Right. Or new. I was like, you logged on to TikTok.com this morning, probably, and barely found me.
Opened an account today. Right. That's okay. My favorite... are the fact that you have sort of an army of people around you that all of your followers will be like, you got to see this shit.
Right, yeah.
Because I do think my algorithm has correctly structured that I don't get the nonsense that people then tag you in. Right. So when I see you've stitched a video, I'm like, this is great. I've never seen this video before. Right, yeah. And the minute they open their mouths, I'm like... Right. You got on the internet. You were like, this is what people need to hear.
Right. The arrogance, truly. I wish I... If I could just harness just an ounce of it, I could take over the world. You know what I mean? The arrogance and the confidence.
The audacity. Right. Exactly. It is. It's mind-boggling. So... How do you decide when you read comments or get tagged in a video? How do you decide what's the vetting process for responding to someone or a video?
I mean, at this point, I feel like in the beginning, it was kind of just if it was getting a lot of attention and it was tagging me a lot, I would do it no matter what. Now, I feel like I've kind of cleaned the streets a little too good. So they do hide from me pretty well now, which doesn't stop people from finding them. Like you said, I always compare myself to Varys in Game of Thrones.
I got birds everywhere, bitch. And they be singing to me. And I always say like, they'll drop them at my altar, like off an offering. And then I come and I collect. So now I feel like I kind of just choose based off what makes me laugh specifically. So, cause it's always the same shit. Like it's nothing new. It's nothing different.
It's always like, has anyone ever thought about like, and it's the most basic line of misogynist thinking ever heard in existence. Like the amount of men I've seen in 2024 say shit I've heard before. fucking 20 years ago, let alone two, right? So I started getting kind of bored. So now, unless I have just an absolute banger of a joke, I'll just ignore it.
Like most times I'll, but if I have a absolute banger, I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to stitch this one. Even though, like, if I got a really good one up here, I'm like, I'm going to fire this one off for sure. And it always does well because I can tell when it's going to do well. But now I think I just pick based off what I want to laugh at.
And I know my audience will laugh, too, because they have the same humor I do. And they know me well enough by now. But, yeah, that's kind of how I pick now. In the beginning, it was kind of a free-for-all. Now I'm a little more specific. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. And do you ever worry about giving these people more attention when you respond? Or is it... I mean, because I know that you've made multiple TikToks about how you will stitch people. And then... suddenly the video disappears and you were like, Oh, you, you didn't want to say it with your whole chest. Like you, that like you wanted to sit, but Oh, sit back down. Like that's cute.
That was cute.
You tried.
Do you, but do you ever think like, like the D three O lineman now he's coming with like more nonsense. Do you ever worry about that? Or do you just hold faith that your 8 million plus followers are going to be like, we knew you were going to, we knew you were going to get that one.
I think it, I think it just depends. I think, cause I, I do exercise quite a bit of discernment when stitching people. Cause there are some things that I think are truly so awful that they don't deserve to be platformed at all. Like no one should ever have to look.
It's, it's kind of like discerning between a man who truly thinks he's like God's gift to this earth and someone who's a fucking grifter. Now I think I don't ever worry about it giving them attention cause I don't stitch anything that,
unless I truly know like they thought I was never gonna see it or they thought they really were gonna hurt my feelings which is hilarious like like oh yeah you're the guy like believe it believe me you you're not the guy to get me like the one oh don't
Again, a perfect segue. So my producer, Queen Emma, she has pulled a couple of comments that we've gotten over the last couple of weeks. Perfect. Specifically, and these are not nearly as egregious as some of the things that you have come for. But one of the... most common questions recently associated with Not Gonna Lie has been, who the fuck is Kylie Kelsey?
If it helps, they say that shit about me too. So if it helps, they say that about me too.
My reaction to this is... I can't get over the fact that you actually typed this into Twitter.
Right.
Right. When you could have typed it into Google. And also you typed my name. So now you know what you're going to get. Right. More Kylie Kelsey content.
Sometimes men will comment on my videos and they'll say, well, the fuck is this ugly bitch on my timeline? And I say, well, the fact that you commented, I'll see you again. I'll see you in a little bit. I'll see you in a couple scrolls, twin. I'll see you in a little.
That is the part that has blown my mind. The other comment that has been a common occurrence, which Queen Emma also pulled, is so tired of anything Kelsey. This lady is not good. Very amateur episode, which I've been fucking saying about my own. First of all, I already said that.
Okay? So, like... Also, every podcaster in the history of time is an amateur when they start because there's no podcasting school and there's no license, clearly, because we have the worst men in the world buying microphones and saying things into them that everybody has heard for centuries. Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah. Everybody's an amateur. Hello.
Like, yes, but this, so this is a while ago. Yeah. I had talked to my producers about like, do we do like a segment on algorithms and explain to people that if you engage with the content and if you write my name and shit, you're just going to keep getting me on your timeline. Yeah.
I can't even tell you many men who talk shit on me still. Like I have said before, I'm like, I, I will continue to live. Our relationship is symbiotic. Like you will never stop being awful and I'll never stop fucking you up and being successful off of it. So it's kind of a win-win for me.
Well, look what the cat dragged in. Me, Duncan Kiley. Duncan Kiley is shockingly similar to regular Kiley. She's just extra prepared to hit you with 32 years worth of butter pecan infused wisdom. And she only shows up for two one minute segments in the episode. So enjoy her while you can. I've talked to you guys about my pregnancy cravings before.
This time around, it's been mostly aversions, but I did crave vanilla frosted donuts when I was pregnant with Ellie. This baby seems to be partial to a glazed donut and I don't blame her. Once I have my baby, there absolutely will be a moment where the switch flips and I head right back to my full calf, butter pecan, where I belong. In the meantime, Dunkin' has plenty of decaffeinated options.
And as I've shared with you guys before, you can always order my favorite drink, half-calf, which is my current situation. Whether your craving is pregnancy-related or just a regular old craving, you can find what you're looking for at your local Dunkin'. Now, as someone, I personally have...
struggled with in my life no longer really do because i've come to the point of really not giving a fuck period but uh i am 5 11 to get into it i've always been taller than most guys a big bitch period i love that and so here's the thing i i
First of all, love the way that you talk about like body positivity, the fact that you post like workout content and just sort of like the fact that you prioritize like your health, your strength. And also you say it first.
Yeah.
like the self-identifying factor I felt like was a turning point in my life where my dad is six foot nine. If I went anywhere with my family, I always felt normal size, right? Like my dad was like, I can go anywhere with my family. It's funny because I would be with my husband and his fellow offensive lineman. I'd be like, oh, this is, I feel normal size. Right. Exactly. You said I'm so small.
Look at me. Oh, I'm so petite. I'm a small girl. Look at me.
Yeah, I'm so petite. Look at me. Yeah. Hell yeah.
I'm dainty. But I will tell you before like any other situation, like high school, I went into high school. I'm pretty sure I was already 5'10 as a freshman. And let me tell you something. The boys were not. Right. The boys were not 5'10.
Right.
Yeah.
Whose insult was always like, you're huge, you're a man. Right. And it was always like, and it took me until probably my senior year to be like, aw. Yeah. Aw. Yeah.
You're mad that you're not my size. Yeah, for real. You're like, you goddamn right. So I would lower my voice if I were you.
You're right.
I'm a full grown man, bitch. I would lower your voice if I were you.
Speak up when you talk to me. Cause I can't hear you from up here.
Exactly.
It's just, it's coming in mousy. Okay. Um, What are some things that are important to you specifically about sort of that body positivity, the way you talk about yourself? Yeah. And how has that sort of shaped you in your life?
Yeah. I mean, I'm happy to hear it. You're a big bitch like me. I'm six feet tall. So like, and I've... I was 5'4 when I was 10. So your dad's big as fuck. My dad's big too. My dad is 6'6. So my dad's 6'6. My mom's 5'3. So my mom is like... My mom's 5'2. There you go. Look at us. Right. And then like my older sister is 5'4 and I'm 6 feet. And then my younger brother is like 6'1, 6'2. So...
Like it's, I relate so heavily to you saying I've always felt like this was a normal size. Me too. And I knew I was tall when I started going to school, obviously. And like when I really hit my growth spurt because I was 5'4 when I was 10. So it's like fifth grade, sixth grade, I was 5'4. And then when I went into seventh and eighth grade, I grew four inches in like a year.
So I was 5'8 when I was in eighth grade. And they were like, who's this grown man coming to the middle school? It's me. And I was just, I've always been big as fuck. I've always been a much larger, not just in height, but also just, I'm a thick girl too. Like I've always been a big body Benz, you know? And so when I went to high school, My freshman year of high school, I grew again.
I was 5'9 when I was 14. And I remember I tore my ACL that year. So I tore everything in my knee. And then I got an MRI and x-rays and all that shit. And I remember my doctor at the time was like, oh, you look like it looks like your growth plates are pretty much closed. Like you shouldn't be growing anymore. And I said, do you fucking promise? Do you promise? Promise me.
Promise me I'm not going to grow anymore. Because I was so sick of being tall at the time. I never cared in middle school. But then when I got to high school, obviously, I'm like, I'm bigger than everyone, including most teachers. Like, I'm like, hello. I'm so huge. And my sister has been 5'4 since the sixth grade. So she's way shorter than me.
And so I never really cared in terms of friends, but obviously when you're unpacking your internalized misogyny and you're going through puberty and all of that stuff, men being much shorter than me. I remember a couple guys said they wanted to take me to prom when I was a sophomore, but they said I was too tall. I think what helped me was my family. My mom would tell me a lot.
She's like, you're never going to look like other girls like that, but that's okay. The way you look is not bad. Everybody looks different and everybody is beautiful in their own ways. And I'm like, whatever, mom, you don't get it. But now I feel really grateful for how tall I am. I love being tall. Now I never... don't wear platforms. I wear platforms all the time.
I think I really kind of unpacked it when I was in college too, when I was like kind of working through my internalized misogyny. And as far as like body neutrality is typically what I like to practice now, which is I want to feel grateful for my body as it is and what it does for me, but I don't want to feel anything about it that's good or bad. I just want to feel gratitude towards it.
That's what I've been practicing as an adult now because bodies are so temporary. Beauty is fickle. It fades with time and it's so subjective. And I feel like that was a huge catalyst for me unpacking my internalized fat phobia. Like to not be afraid, like afraid fat is not a bad word. Fat is not a denigrating word.
Like sociologically, we've given that word a lot of power and a lot of negativity where fat is nothing more than an adjective. It's a descriptor. It's not neither good nor bad. And I think me kind of making that a pillar in my platform is has really helped my audience understand that when men levy shit like that against you, it doesn't mean anything.
Now, the idea of body neutrality, you speak about that in your book, Loud. Yes. And I really, I love the idea of looking at a word like fat and saying, yeah, it is. It's an adjective. Like it's a word. Because I do think that
through like my experience with people taking issue with my size, they've always tried to use words that when directed towards a woman who's supposed to be dainty, who's supposed to be fragile, who's supposed to be sort of this like delicate something. Right. And you're going to look at me and be like, you're huge. Yeah, I fucking am. Yeah.
And so is this wallet. Get into it, bitch.
Like, what are you talking? Yes, I'm huge. I'm big. Like there was a period of time where I was like, don't call me big. Like that. And I would be like, I'm not big. I'm tall. Or like, I'm not big. I'm like, my thighs aren't big. I'm strong. Like there was this whole idea that I had to like switch things.
the narrative of not allowing those words to hold the weight that they expected them to hold with me. Totally. And I just think it's so amazing that you're,
not only writing books explaining to people like how to handle this but also that you've dove into your own experiences to be able to to work through it and to again a mom of almost four girls i just appreciate that you're having these conversations and that you are normalizing the idea of not allowing other people to determine your self-worth. Totally.
Because anyone can look at you and form an opinion about how you look or what you bring to the table. But at the end of the day, as long as you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of the night and say, am I kind?
Mm-hmm.
Am I a good person? Yeah. Those types of things. Who gives a fuck if you tower over every kid in your class? Amen. I cannot thank you enough for chatting with me today and doing all of the things that you're doing. I am forever cheering you on and, uh, double tapping so that you get the engagement from someone who wants to keep you on there for you and timeline.
Same. And I'll do the same.
I appreciate it. Um, I am so excited to see what's next for you. Um, and thank you again. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much.
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I do really quickly want to give you your flowers too. I think it's incredible what you're doing. I think your husband is fantastic and a hall of famer. And I think what he's done for the sport has been incredible, but more importantly, having someone like you by his side, I think is incredible.
It is really hard to be the wife of a football player and let alone raise a family. Trust me. I know. So I want to give you your flowers. I think you're incredible and fantastic. And I think you entering the podcasting space. It can only be good. There's only good things that can come from it. And I think you're wonderful. And I think you keep his ass in line and that's period.
That's on fucking period. And he's in a house full of women. Yeah. Yeah. I love to hear it.
Isn't that so great?
Girl, I love it. It's, it's truly the best thing ever. And I think, Having someone like you as their mom is incredible. And I think mothers are just superheroes. You have truly conquered death four times, which is crazy. And I think that's incredible. And I think you're amazing and so admirable. And I'm honored to have been on. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah.
thank you so much again to drew for joining me once again these episodes are capped at 45 minutes so you'll be able to find even more clips from our conversation on more mondays on my youtube channel and that does it for episode four of not gonna lie i'll be back next thursday with a brand new episode listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts follow the show on all social media at ngl with kylie not gonna lie is a wave original brought to you by duncan thank you guys for tuning in