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Murder on the Towpath with Soledad O’Brien

The Mapmaker's Testimony

Wed, 14 May 2025

Description

For a whole year, Dovey retraced Mary’s last steps on the towpath in order to build her defense. Meanwhile, the aggressive, gum-smacking prosecutor portrayed Ray as a ruthless killer without morals. Dovey had to convince the jury that Ray was innocent—otherwise he would face the death penalty.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Audio
Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the setting and significance of the towpath in Mary Meyer's case?

139.358 - 161.516 Soledad O'Brien

Earlier this year, my producer Natalie and I went to the place where all of this began. So this towpath is, it's very pretty. It runs right along a wall. That's about, what, 20 feet high? Maybe that's a guess. And between the towpath and the wall is a marsh. And it's, I guess the time of year, it's sort of got a low level of water in it.

0

161.636 - 171.621 Soledad O'Brien

To the left of the towpath as we're walking, and of course you see the skyline right on the other side of that. It's so pretty. I mean, it really is very beautiful.

0

172.902 - 180.047 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

Is that Georgetown? Yes, Georgetown starts right around here.

0

180.928 - 197.405 Soledad O'Brien

We wanted to see for ourselves where Mary Meyer and Dovey Roundtree intersected. Mary Meyer walked here. Dovey Roundtree hunted for clues here. This might be the only place where the two of them cross paths. Literally, Georgetown overlooks this path.

0

198.223 - 198.444 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

Yeah.

Chapter 2: Who were Mary Meyer and Dovey Roundtree, and how are their stories connected?

198.905 - 224.707 Soledad O'Brien

I mean, if you looked out the window of a Georgetown dorm, you would see the path. I had this idea of what the towpath would be like. Actually, when I first heard the word towpath, I wasn't even sure what one was. I guess I assumed the towpath was heavily wooded, like in a movie. You know, the slightly ominous scene. It's typically at the beginning of a film noir.

0

225.468 - 251.361 Soledad O'Brien

Within five minutes of watching, you know, from the pacing and the moody lighting, that she's not going to make it to the end of the film. just like Mary, who was killed too soon, before her life had run its course. But here's the thing. The place Mary was murdered is actually an open public park. It's amazing how crowded it is. And obviously, we're talking many decades ago.

0

251.441 - 261.65 Soledad O'Brien

But still, like, you're not alone and secluded. There's a lot happening. You don't feel alone. It doesn't feel scary. It doesn't feel quiet.

0

262.231 - 262.831 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

Absolutely.

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262.851 - 263.412 Soledad O'Brien

It feels busy.

264.875 - 275.386 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

When it comes to committing a crime, you would think you might want to do it in a more secluded place, and this absolutely is not something that's unpopulated or shielded from many people's views.

275.627 - 300.58 Soledad O'Brien

Right, you see the joggers kind of above your head on the bridge, and you even see the homeless people's little encampments because the trees don't even hide those at all. But I thought, having not seen it before, that it would be much more secluded and much, you know, more places where you could hide and not, I mean, really, you can see everything.

301.604 - 325.853 Soledad O'Brien

And these days, planes constantly pass overhead. The towpath has long been in the flight path of Reagan. Of course, back then it was just called National Airport. The path itself is also wider than I thought it would be. We passed people walking their dogs, soccer players and cyclists were whizzing past us. That afternoon, Natalie and I retraced Mary's steps on her final day.

326.753 - 354.857 Soledad O'Brien

We started at M and 34th Street, passed Key Bridge and walked west toward Fletcher's Boathouse, crossed the wooden footbridge, and even walked past the tunnel that journalist Lance Morrow would have taken to reach Mary. We used several sources about the crime to figure out where Mary died, but our best guess is roughly 4300 Canal Road. Natalie pinned it on her phone and we headed that way.

Chapter 3: What were the social and legal challenges faced by Dovey Roundtree in 1965?

724.98 - 740.113 Unidentified Female (Possible Guest or Producer)

May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain.

0

Chapter 4: How did the civil rights movement impact the trial and defense of Ray Crump?

740.313 - 749.223 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that.

0

749.503 - 755.13 Unidentified Female (Possible Guest or Producer)

Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0

756.172 - 778.657 Bomhan

Yo, K-pop fans, it's your boy, Bomhan, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing The K-Factor, the podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K-pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love.

0

779.568 - 800.381 Bomhan

And yeah, we're keeping it 100, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business. Because K-pop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world. And we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events. You never know where we might pop up next.

0

801.322 - 810.61 Bomhan

So listen to The K Factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go.

816.089 - 833.446 Chelsea Handler

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler. Ed Helms is here. I, of course, was drawn to the LSD story. In the 1950s, a CIA scientist secretly bought the entire world's supply of LSD, embarking on a horrific attempt to discover the secrets to mind control.

833.868 - 854.225 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

This is so insane. This was all under like official government activity. They built a apartment in San Francisco that had a glass mirror where he could sit there and watch. And then they would drug these customers. And he was just sort of taking notes and God knows what else behind this double mirror. And this was all in the name of science.

854.505 - 868.875 Chelsea Handler

This just sounds like a guy f***ing off behind a wall. It does. I would just also like to say if you don't have to take LSD like this, LSD can be microdosed. It's like an upper of energy, enthusiasm, makes you less nervous if I'm going heli-skiing.

869.175 - 873.258 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

If it allows me to go hella-skiing, then yeah, I'm hella on board.

Chapter 5: What was the atmosphere and key players involved in Ray Crump’s trial?

979.435 - 994.542 Soledad O'Brien

Bob's a successful lawyer these days, and he knows a thing or two about being part of a noteworthy case. In the 90s, he was one of President Clinton's defense attorneys during his impeachment hearings. But Ray's case was one of the first times he was in a courtroom.

0

994.922 - 999.544 Bob Bennett (Lawyer, Clerk in 1965)

It was an exciting case, and yes, I did enjoy it.

0

1000.311 - 1019.246 Soledad O'Brien

Bob was clerking for Judge Howard Corcoran, who'd recently been appointed to the district court bench. President Johnson nominated him, and he was confirmed by the Senate in March. Some thought the judge wasn't ready for such a high-profile murder case. Guess Dovey wasn't the only one out there with something to prove.

0

1020.027 - 1037.458 Bob Bennett (Lawyer, Clerk in 1965)

I mean, Judge Corcoran was a very patient judge. kind of a laid-back fellow. He was calm. He was deliberative. And because he was new, he wanted to do everything just perfectly right.

0

Chapter 6: How did the courtroom and public respond to this high-profile murder case in 1965?

Chapter 7: What are the challenges and emotional struggles highlighted in the podcast's broader themes?

5.332 - 19.8 Unidentified Female (Possible Guest or Producer)

The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain.

0

20.16 - 27.744 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle.

0

28.055 - 33.938 Unidentified Female (Possible Guest or Producer)

Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0

35.399 - 40.262 Stacey Vanek-Smith (Everybody's Business Host)

A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways.

0

40.502 - 46.266 Unidentified Female (Possible Guest or Producer)

Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one.

47.406 - 56.952 Max Chastain (Everybody's Business Host)

Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastain.

57.463 - 65.189 Stacey Vanek-Smith (Everybody's Business Host)

And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

65.77 - 71.855 Chelsea Handler

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler. Ed Helms is here. I, of course, was drawn to the LSD story.

72.035 - 88.868 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

This was all under official government activity. They built a apartment that had a glass mirror where he could sit there and watch. And then they would drug these customers. And he was just sort of taking notes and God knows what else behind this double mirror. And this was all in the name of science.

Chapter 8: How does the podcast use historical context to explore justice and racial issues?

724.98 - 740.113 Unidentified Female (Possible Guest or Producer)

May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and climb your personal mountain.

0

740.313 - 749.223 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that.

0

749.503 - 755.13 Unidentified Female (Possible Guest or Producer)

Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

0

756.172 - 778.657 Bomhan

Yo, K-pop fans, it's your boy, Bomhan, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing The K-Factor, the podcast that takes you straight into the heart of K-pop. We're talking music reviews, exclusive interviews, and deep dives into the industry like never before. From producers and choreographers to idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love.

0

779.568 - 800.381 Bomhan

And yeah, we're keeping it 100, discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business. Because K-pop isn't just a genre. It's a whole world. And we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part. Fans get to call in, drop opinions, and even join us live at events. You never know where we might pop up next.

801.322 - 810.61 Bomhan

So listen to The K Factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't just a podcast. It's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go.

816.089 - 833.446 Chelsea Handler

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler. Ed Helms is here. I, of course, was drawn to the LSD story. In the 1950s, a CIA scientist secretly bought the entire world's supply of LSD, embarking on a horrific attempt to discover the secrets to mind control.

833.868 - 854.225 Unidentified Male (Possibly a Producer or Guest)

This is so insane. This was all under like official government activity. They built a apartment in San Francisco that had a glass mirror where he could sit there and watch. And then they would drug these customers. And he was just sort of taking notes and God knows what else behind this double mirror. And this was all in the name of science.

854.505 - 868.875 Chelsea Handler

This just sounds like a guy f***ing off behind a wall. It does. I would just also like to say if you don't have to take LSD like this, LSD can be microdosed. It's like an upper of energy, enthusiasm, makes you less nervous if I'm going heli-skiing.

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