Money Rehab with Nicole Lapin
How to Use Body Language as a Secret Weapon in Your Career
Fri, 07 Feb 2025
This week, Money Rehab is hosted by Minda Harts, bestselling author and expert who helps organizations build cultures of trust and belonging through her speaking, writing, and innovative Trust Catalyst game. In each episode this week, she’s focusing on one of the seven “trust languages” she's determined to be essential to a healthy workplace. Did you know that what you're telling your coworkers might be completely overshadowed by what you're... not saying? Today, Minda is joined by body language expert Linda Clemons who shares the nonverbal cues you should— and shouldn't— be using to succeed at work. Learn more about Linda's work here. Pre-order Minda’s upcoming book, Talk to Me Nice: The Seven Trust Languages for a Better Workplace, here. Follow Minda on LinkedIn here. Learn more about Minda’s work here. All investing involves the risk of loss, including loss of principal. Brokerage services for US-listed, registered securities, options and bonds in a self-directed account are offered by Open to the Public Investing, member FINRA & SIPC. Public Investing offers a High-Yield Cash Account where funds from this account are automatically deposited into partner banks where they earn interest and are eligible for FDIC insurance; Public Investing is not a bank.
Chapter 1: How can body language be your secret weapon at work?
Thank you, Minda. I'm excited to be here.
Happy that you're here. And you know what? As a body language expert, what's the first thing you noticed about how I welcomed you?
First of all, because we have a natural connection that I felt and believed that you were sincere about me being here as being excited and seeing an old friend. So your body language gets an A+.
Okay, good. I was worried. I'm like, you know what? Should I ask her that question? Yeah.
It gets an A plus.
Okay, that's good. And that was how I felt. So you nailed it. For our listeners who are leading teams at work, how important is their body language, Linda?
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Chapter 2: Why is body language critical for leaders?
Your body language is critical, and especially if you are a leader. Quite often, and parents will tell you, young adults don't necessarily do what you tell them to do. They do what they see you do. Why is it important as a leader? Your actions speak before you do. You can say one thing, but yet your body language will indicate that you mean something else.
So it doesn't matter what you say, your nonverbal will get in the way. You and I both know when someone believes in something and they're convicted about it, look how my hands are moving in sync with my words. They have that commitment. How many times you've worked with a manager or a leader, or someone that you're talking to and you ask them, how do you feel about XYZ?
How do you feel about the new director? How do you feel about this project or the move? And they'll do something like this. Well, it's okay. Now you notice what I just did. They did a shoulder shrug. So anytime you see a shoulder shrug, it cancels out the verbal message. So once again,
To everyone out there that's listening and watching this, you want to make sure that what you say, you have a commitment and conviction to it because if you don't, your body will give it away.
That's a sound bite right there. It will and it does. You don't even have to say anything. It's actions do speak. Thank you for that, Linda. Now, let's get a little granular. Today, we're talking about feedback. How does your body language impact the way feedback is received in the workplace?
So let's talk about the communication theory. The communication theory was done over 50 years ago by Dr. Maharabian out of UCLA. And in his study, you have a lot of behavioral experts and communication experts says, oh, that was 50 years ago. But let's hear the numbers. It says that in the study that our words are 7% of our communication. So just think about that.
What if we speak a different language? 7%. So are your words passionate or passive, poison or potent? Are the words that are coming out of your mouth genuine and authentic? Our tonality is 38% of our communication. And then our body language is 55. So add the 38 and the 55, that's 93%. So if you are not committed or convicted to what you're saying, then what's gonna take place is leakage.
Yeah, I hear you saying this, but I just got this feeling something's not right. Something's not coming out and that's what happens. So when individuals do this and they're having this communication, it could be perhaps maybe I don't want to hurt the person's feelings or perhaps I'm trying to lead them in a different direction that they may not be agreeable to. Here's what takes place.
If you need to say what you mean, mean what you say, and it's so important because then everything is congruent. Why is that important? Because your brain, The amygdala, the truth brain is not going to go down with your girlfriend. So you can think about something, but whatever you think about, it's going to come about. So I can't emphasize this even more how critical this is.
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Chapter 3: How does body language affect feedback in the workplace?
I wish that this is an episode I'm going to have to go back and listen to time and time again, because this is important. And what I was thinking about was the general lessons here. What are the must-haves of body language when one comes to giving feedback to a colleague? Because that can be touchy.
So let's just say I want to give constructive, caring feedback. Notice people say constructive criticism. When is constructive criticism? If you're saying construct and you're criticizing two opposites, right? So I want to give feedback, caring feedback.
So one of the things that you want to do, what happens if you're giving this feedback and Minda, the individual, perhaps on your team that perhaps you inherited that individual, right? and you really don't want them on their team, the feedback could look like this. Minda, I want to talk to you about your job performance. Look what I just did.
Well, Minda, I want to talk to you about your job performance versus, well, Minda, I want to talk to you about your job performance and the direction. See, look, notice I'm leaning in versus arms folded. So be it a full folded arm or half folded arm, I'm covering a power zone. What is a power zone? The heart is one of those zones, the superstortle notch and the heart is another zone.
So when I'm closing this off, it's like closing the door and I'm trying to give feedback, That's going to help someone versus when we lean in, we lean towards things that we have an interest in, we're curious about, and we want to bring towards us. So, Minda, I want to talk to you about your performance. Notice that my palms are exposed.
versus, Minda, I want to talk to you about your performance. Oh my gosh, already judged. I'm already criticized. It's over. So it's very important that, I think it was Stephen Covey that said, begin with the end in mind. How do I want this feedback to go? Do I want the individual to walk away empowered, enriched,
transformed, feeling better, open to learn and correction, or do I want them to walk away damaged? So when we begin with the end in mind, then we say to ourselves, what words? I want to choose my words. My words are 7%, but the tone is 38. The individual that I'm speaking to, Minda, could be an auditory dominated communicator.
So if the tone is not right, it goes back to what our moms used to say. I don't like that tone that you're using. So, again, beginning with the end in mind. And how do you want the person to walk away? Some of the things that I tell my students and my clients, you want people to walk away better and not bitter. Because if they're bitter, they're not going to take any advice.
They may try to get even. So how do I want them to walk away? And do I want them to say, you know what? Thank you for that feedback. Thank you for that information. This could help me in my career. How do you start it off? saying something positive.
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Chapter 4: What role does tone play in communication?
Yeah, because now you make me want to go to Steve and Sandy's Instagram and see what's going on. And see what's going on.
Absolutely. I had a presentation a few years ago at a conference you and I both spoke at. And one of the women just simply asked a question. Well, you talk about tone, Linda. Does tone make a difference in dating? We're talking about at work, leading people. And all of a sudden, someone says, does it make a difference in dating? And I said, your tone is so important. It can soothe the savage beast.
It can bring peace. if you use it right. And it can also track the right person. So I asked someone in the audience to go get me a man, find me a man, any man. And they brought back someone that worked at the hotel, not planned, never met each other. And I said, look, you can see that this is a conference of women. but I need your help.
I want to demonstrate something that is so important for women in business and how they negotiate and how they work. And I bring this man up on the stage and I gave him two examples by simply using my vocal tone and the whole audience. And I told the audience, I can get them to melt in minutes. Just by the way, I changed the tone on the request. He start grinning, start shifting.
So can you imagine with the right tone, the tone that your mother uses when growing up, when we know mom is serious, the tone that we use when we know that we're not playing or joking or jiving around, if you will. So the tone can make a difference in getting compliance, agreement and commitment.
Mic drop. Thank you for sharing that story. We're all thinking about our platonic, romantic and workplace relationships in the tone. I love this so much. It makes me think about something you said a little bit back about what people say and what they do. What do you think the biggest disconnect is between what leaders say and what their body language communicates?
The biggest disconnect is not being truthful and authentic in what they could say. It's understandable that certain information proprietary, they may not be able to release or their leadership says, we can't make this announcement, but you need to let them know there's going to be some changes. When they do not have a commitment to to the message, that's the thing that sends the signal.
I heard him, I heard her, but I'm looking at you. But Minda, all I know is something's not right. Let's get a meeting in the break room because there is no commitment. Now, let's say you have a leader and let's just use a male as an example. And women, we could talk about you because it's important, but if you're dealing with male leadership. So let's say there's gonna be some changes around here.
So a man walks in the room and says, there's gonna be some changes, we're gonna have to cut back. He's wearing a suit and a tie. The jacket is buttoned. And watch this. He says, we're going to have to cut back. There's going to be some changes. However, we're all in this together and we're going to roll up our sleeves. Well, here's the thing.
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Chapter 5: How can virtual settings impact body language?
The second thing is that my grandmother used to say, and particularly for those of you in sales, think about this. She would say something like this. Minda, you're going to love this. Baby, if you're trying to get a million dollar contract, you can't show up like $1.99. if that's not a mic drop. So when you're on the virtual screen, you want your background to be inviting.
Your goal is to make an impact and not a diss track. And it's important to show as much of your upper carriage as possible. You want to show as much of your upper carriage as possible. And in your virtual presentations, you want to emphasize, punctuate, and use your hands, using gestures to emphasize what it is that you're saying, and making sure that your palms are shown. Why is that important?
Studies have shown it is very difficult to be deceptive or lie unless you're a psychopath, sociopath with the palms exposed. Why is it that when someone accuses, Minda, did you take my laptop? I didn't do it. Did you take my cookie? I didn't do it. The palms are exposed. So it's important that when you're doing your virtual presentations and you're speaking honestly from the heart,
They need to see your hands. And especially, specifically, if you're in the financial industry, they better see your hands.
Okay. Listen, all those sales folks and financial folks, you aspire to get into that industry. Think about those things when you're doing those interviews and you're on the screen. And I also thought about cultural awareness and how that plays into body language and feedback. What role would you say that they all work together in concerts?
Absolutely. So think about this. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. So we're in a diverse world. You have a diverse team and we want to seek to understand. So here in the United States, it's so important if you're doing face-to-face business, eye contact is critical. We deem it critical up to 85% of the time, because this is what we think.
If I'm not looking at you directly, you're thinking, okay, she's a little shifty. Something's going on with the deal. But what if I'm doing business with someone from another culture that perhaps just got into the country and perhaps they're from an Asian culture, Japanese, if you will, direct eye contact in your business meetings can be deemed disrespectful.
As a matter of fact, they look at the super stern on notch. So in dealing with different cultures, understanding that our language or even our colors of the clothes that we wear, if I'm doing business in China, they've relaxed it a little bit, is that the color of white was a sign of Good morning. So what if I was wearing a beautiful white suit, my linen white suit to a meeting?
It could send a different kind of message. So when in Rome, you do as the Romans do. When you have a diverse audience, you want to honor and respect the different cultures and be very careful of using what we call in body language emblems. And it's like sign language for nonverbal communication, not for the deaf community. But what I mean is emblems that go like this, A-OK.
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Chapter 6: How do cultural differences affect body language?
Okay. Let's read the room. Well, you're going to read the room and I'm going to learn, but here's the first scenario. During feedback, your manager leans back, crosses their arms, but says, my door's always open.
OK, so let's think about this. So I'm going to give a little insight for everyone. When you're reading on verbal communication, your first lesson is to know the person's baseline. And the baseline is that individual's norm. Oh, that's just Jim. That's what he does all the time. So he leans back and says, my door is always open. But yet he closed the door to the heart.
even though the physical door is open. So your brain is saying, no, it's not because he's saying it's open, but he closed off his body. So what he's saying to you is that, yeah, my door is always open if I want to hear what you have to say. But don't bring me no crap.
So it's very important to know the baseline that if I'm a new hire in your company and I come out and says, Minda, I was just in there with Jim. And even though he said that his door is always open, I just didn't feel that. Now, what if you walked in the room and Jim shut the physical door? Okay.
And, but what you're talking about was not really that big a deal, confidential or personal, but he shut the door. So if I'm a kinesthetic individual, an emotional based communicator, I'm thinking, oh, if he called me in the office, I'm in trouble. Then all of a sudden, now he's sitting there and talking to me and he leans back. Hey, Linda, my door is always open.
And his body, look at the body language open. So if you ever need to talk to me, look at the hands again, everybody. If you ever need to talk to me, you're welcome to come in. As opposed to my door. No, it's not. He's locked and loaded. No.
In his hands, you cannot see his palms.
You can't, right? Exactly. Very good. You advance, Minda, you advance to the next session.
Okay, I love it. Our second scenario is a team member is in a meeting presenting their ideas and their colleague keeps looking down, taking notes.
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