Huberman Lab
How to Improve Your Teeth & Oral Microbiome for Brain & Body Health | Dr. Staci Whitman
Mon, 24 Mar 2025
My guest is Dr. Staci Whitman, DMD, a board-certified dentist for kids and adults. We discuss the critical importance of oral care and the oral microbiome for brain and bodily health. We examine the negative effects of common oral care product ingredients such as alcohol, astringents, and bleaches. We also explore the history and real impact of fluoridated drinking water on oral, bone, and systemic health. Then we discuss healthy, lesser-known solutions for bad breath, canker sores, cavities, and teeth whitening. We cover how teeth can be made to repair their own cavities and the connection between oral health and cardiovascular health, male and female fertility, dementia, and cancer. This episode goes far beyond the best approaches to brushing and flossing and will be a valuable resource for anyone seeking to improve their oral health and appearance at any age. Read the episode show notes at hubermanlab.com. Thank you to our sponsors AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman Eight Sleep: https://eightsleep.com/huberman BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/huberman Joovv: https://joovv.com/huberman Function: https://functionhealth.com/huberman LMNT: https://drinklmnt.com/huberman Timestamps 00:00:00 Dr. Staci Whitman 00:02:04 Oral Health & Oral Microbiome 00:05:01 Oral Healthcare Ingredients, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (SLS); Canker Sores 00:08:45 Sponsors: Eight Sleep & BetterHelp 00:11:38 Cavities & Teeth De-/Remineralization, Fluoride 00:19:14 Cavities, Tool: Meal Frequency, Fasting 00:21:51 Sugar, “Dissolvable” Carbs & Cavities, Tools: Feed the Rainbow, Clean Diet 00:27:41 White Teeth, Bleaching, Hydroxyapatite, Mouth Breathing 00:34:34 Antibiotics, Gut & Oral Microbiome, Tool: Probiotics 00:36:20 Mouthwash, Alcohol, Astringents, Cardiovascular Risk, Bad Breath 00:39:54 Sponsors: AG1 & Joovv 00:42:21 Saliva, Dry Mouth, Salivary Analysis, Tools: Hydration; Nasal Breathing 00:47:23 Mouth vs. Nasal Breathing, Hard & Soft Tissue Issues 00:54:19 Deviated Septum, Therapies, Kids & Adults, Mouth Breathing & Sleep Disorders 01:00:42 Gum Health, Flossing; Sexual Health 01:01:50 Shifting to Nasal Breathing, Mouth Taping, Tools: 3-Minute Test, Kiss The Sky 01:05:53 Chewing Gum, Mastic Gum, Tool: Xylitol; Chewing Food, Breastfeeding 01:11:28 Sponsor: Function 01:13:15 Gum Disease, “Leaky Gums”, Cardiovascular Disease, Dementia, Cancer 01:20:05 Antibiotics, Ozone Therapy, Oil Pulling, Mold, Tool: Coconut Oil; Facial Trauma 01:28:07 Nicotine Gum & Pouches, Oral Health; Coffee, Teeth Whitening 01:34:16 Whole Foods, Hydroxyapatite Toothpaste; Tool: Testing Oral Microbiome 01:39:39 Water Fluoridation, History, Other Fluoride Sources, Neurocognitive Issues 01:54:57 Drinking Water & Fluoride, Toothpaste, Cavities 01:59:51 Sponsor: LMNT 02:01:07 Water Fluoridation & Levels 02:04:52 Oral Health & Fertility 02:07:03 Toothbrushing, Flossing, Waterpik, Tool: Toothbrushing & Meals 02:13:23 Teeth Spots & Markings, Fluorosis, Hypoplastic Enamel 02:19:10 Oral Health, Women, Pregnancy, Menopause & Burning Mouth 02:23:16 Geographic Tongue; Lip Balm; Mouth Breathing, Symmetrical Chewing 02:27:09 Tongue Tie, Chewing & Speech Function, Intervention 02:32:27 Red Light Therapy, Peptides & Exosomes 02:34:40 Mercury Fillings, Ceramic Composites, Retainers, Sealants 02:39:08 Dentists, Depression, Anxiety, Suicide; Insurance 02:45:05 Recap, Top Behavioral Tools for Oral Health, Tongue Scrapping 02:52:10 Zero-Cost Support, YouTube, Spotify & Apple Follow & Reviews, YouTube Feedback, Protocols Book, Social Media, Neural Network Newsletter Disclaimer & Disclosures
Chapter 1: Who is Dr. Staci Whitman and why is oral health crucial?
Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Stacey Whitman. Dr. Stacey Whitman is a functional dentist with expertise treating both adult and pediatric patients.
She focuses on oral health as a key feature of overall gut health and a powerful modulator of brain longevity, heart health, hormones, and fertility in both men and in women.
Today, we discuss many of the common myths about tooth and gum care and how to use specific nutrition, breathing and cleaning methods to repair cavities, whiten teeth and freshen breath while at the same time improving the oral microbiome.
This is very important because as Dr. Whitman explains, most of the things that people do in pursuit of better tooth health and appearance and fresh breath actually damage their oral microbiome and indeed can lead to serious cardiovascular issues. So today we discuss how to brush, how to floss.
I know we've all heard that we need to brush and floss, but Dr. Whitman explains exactly how to do those so that they are of the maximum benefit for our tooth health, gum health, and oral health generally. We also discuss the science and benefits of things like tongue scraping and oil pulling. And we discuss fluoride, which of course is a very controversial and timely topic nowadays.
It's a very interesting conversation that I believe everyone, young, old, parents, and kids need to be aware of. We also discussed treating things like tongue ties, deviated septums, canker sores, and more. By the end of today's episode, you'll have the most up-to-date knowledge about how to take care of your oral health,
both for aesthetic reasons and, of course, to reduce cavities and gum disease, and in doing so, how to support your brain and heart longevity. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, this episode does include sponsors. And now for my discussion with Dr. Stacey Whitman. Dr. Stacey Whitman, welcome.
Thank you, Andrew.
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Chapter 2: What are the harmful effects of common oral care products?
and they want their mouth to sort of feel good right the question i have is what are some of the things that many many people do in trying to have white teeth fresh breath that actually are very destructive for our teeth and our oral microbiome and if we go through that entry point into this conversation, then we can get into some of the specifics of why that is.
So what's something that you see many people doing in terms of trying to have bright white teeth that actually is harming their teeth?
Sure, great question. Great way to start off. So I first want to commend you and thank you for including the oral microbiome and oral health as one of the pillars of health. That means a great deal and it has a lot to do with this answer. So unfortunately, we have been taught that we need to carpet bomb the mouth. We need to add
astringents and alcohols and foaming agents and really strong essential oils to clean disinfect and to freshen the breath but we're really what we're doing with these products is damaging our delicate microbiome which can make things far worse so much of oral health is a less is more approach and It's not so product heavy.
It should be more focused on diet and lifestyle, like anything with health. Unfortunately, dentistry has been separated and compartmentalized out of the body like much of medicine. We're so specialized and subspecialized in dentistry is included in that. And we need to remember it's all interconnected. And what we're doing to the mouth, whether it be strong toothpaste, mouthwashes, certain gums,
And even what we're eating and how we're breathing can really do a number on our oral health. And so it's taking a different perspective and it's a bit of a mindset shift to really get us back to optimization.
So do you think that most of the common over-the-counter toothpaste, while they smell minty or pepperminty and taste minty and pepperminty, are they effectively cleaning teeth? And are they causing any damage to teeth by virtue of what they have in them?
It really depends on the ingredients. So I'd like people to start looking at their oral health care products like they're starting to look at food labels. We should be reading the ingredients and understanding why they're there and what they're doing, where are they sourced from. But certainly, I think so many of us feel it has to burn in foam to be effective. What is toothbrushing?
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Chapter 3: How do cavities form and how can teeth repair themselves?
What is it really doing? You're disrupting the biofilm, which is really the plaque or the bacteria that are adhered to your teeth. And so all these extra bells and whistles, it's sort of extra credit. But if you're perfectly imbalanced, we shouldn't need all these stripping agents and strong mints and things.
So, for example, sodium lauryl sulfate is a foaming agent, but it also can be really disruptive to the oral mucosa and can lead to oral ulceration. So that's a common ingredient that causes foaming that I would argue we do not need. Your toothpaste shouldn't foam, nor should it burn. Essential oils, we think, oh, those are natural. They're healthy, right? Well, many are very antimicrobial.
And so they could be damaging the healthy bacteria in your mouth. So that's where that strong burn after many toothpaste, you really don't need that. And if your breath is so bad or you have halitosis that you feel the need for that, then I would argue, well, let's dig deeper. Why is your breath? So in balance, there's probably something else going on.
So I really encourage people to start learning about their products. I think we just give dentistry and teeth, just we push it to the side. It's kind of an afterthought many times. And just like we're prioritizing skincare, shampoo, things that we're putting on our bodies, we need to be focused on the ingredients in our oral healthcare products too.
Especially since we're literally putting it into our body, not just on the surface of our body. What was the foaming agent again?
Sodium lauryl sulfate. And the problem is there's derivatives. So some cleaner versions might have coconut-derived SLS derivatives. Many people will do okay with those, but a common complaint I see in my office are oral ulcerations. And the first thing I think of is what's in your toothpaste. Does it have SLS or a derivative?
Because we're all different and some people have more sensitivities and will react more to those.
Are ulcerations canker sores?
Yeah.
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Chapter 4: Does sugar really cause cavities?
Yes. But also, and this is off, not on many people's radars, you know, the mouth is the gateway into the body and the mouth is the gut. I want people to start thinking of it that way. So what happens in the mouth can be a reflection of what's happening in the gut.
And so a lot of times when I have patients that come in with recurrent aphthous ulcers or ulcerations, that can be a sign of Crohn's or celiac, IBS, like something going on deeper within that we need to be evaluating, food sensitivities, etc.
I'd like to take a quick break and acknowledge our sponsor, Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity. Now, I've spoken before on this podcast about the critical need for us to get adequate amounts of quality sleep each and every night.
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Eight Sleep automatically regulates the temperature of your bed throughout the night according to your unique needs. Now, I find that extremely useful because I like to make the bed really cool at the beginning of the night, even colder in the middle of the night, and warm as I wake up. That's what gives me the most slow-wave sleep and rapid eye movement sleep.
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Chapter 5: Can improving oral health influence overall health and fertility?
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Go to 8sleep.com slash Huberman to save up to $350 off your Pod 4 Ultra. 8sleep ships to many countries worldwide, including Mexico and the UAE. Again, that's 8sleep.com slash Huberman to save up to $350 off your Pod 4 Ultra. Today's episode is also brought to us by BetterHelp. BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online.
I've been doing weekly therapy for over 30 years. Initially, I didn't have a choice. It was a condition of being allowed to stay in school. But pretty soon I realized that therapy is an extremely important component to overall health. In fact, I consider doing regular therapy just as important as getting regular exercise, which of course I also do every week.
There are essentially three things that great therapy provides. First of all, it provides a good rapport with somebody that you can trust and talk to about any and all issues. Second of all, it can provide support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance. And third, expert therapy can provide useful insights.
With BetterHelp, they make it easy to find an expert therapist who you resonate with and can help you provide these benefits that come through effective therapy. Also, because BetterHelp therapy is done entirely online, it's very time efficient and easy to fit into a busy schedule with no commuting to a therapist's office or sitting in a waiting room.
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the whole concept that teeth can essentially build themselves and destroy themselves independent of sugar intake and other factors. So if you would, could you just briefly walk us through this whole business of mineralization and demineralization of teeth? Because I find this so interesting, and later I'll share a little bit. Full disclosure, I have a very complicated oral health history.
And had I known what you're about to tell us, I think I would have spared myself a ton of pain.
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Chapter 6: What is the connection between nasal breathing and oral health?
Potentially. I'm sorry to hear that, but we'll unpack that.
You weren't my dentist, unfortunately.
No. I have stories to share, too. We'll get to as well. I think many people do, and that's the problem. So I wasn't taught this in dental school, interestingly enough. So this is something I learned later. out in practice. And it's the concept that your teeth can naturally remineralize if you have a small cavity. But let's start further back.
So your teeth are constantly going through demineralization and remineralization. And this is very natural. And anytime we put anything into our mouth besides arguably neutral water, and this has to do with pH. So anytime we eat, our mouth is the beginning of the digestive system. So we release amylase, which is an enzyme that helps break down our food. And in doing that, the pH drops.
This is how we start digestion. When that happens, we lose minerals in our teeth. The acid will leach out calcium, phosphorus, and minerals from our teeth. But the concern is we don't want it to stay in that acidic state for too long, in that demineralized state for too long. Because if we allow our body to do its thing, our saliva will naturally remineralize our teeth.
This is all part of a healthy balance system. So our saliva is this golden elixir of our body, and it contains immune cells and enzymes, but also the minerals that we should need, if balanced, to create that remineralization. So there's something called the Stefan curve.
And essentially, it's showing us how our mouth will become acidic and neutral and acidic and neutral throughout the day as we eat. The problem is in modern society, we tend to be snacking and grazing and sipping often. All of the time. So we're not giving our mouths enough of a break, enough of an opportunity to remineralize.
So many of us are staying in the state of constant acidity and demineralization. But what's interesting is, so if you have a small cavity or lesion that hasn't yet truly cavitated, that in a cavity means a hole. So if you look on an x-ray and I see a shadow on your tooth, it's called an incipient lesion. Those, if they're still in the enamel, those can, quote unquote, heal or remineralize.
And this is where you would need to work with, let's say, a functional or biological dentist to understand how deep your cavity is. Once it becomes a hole, generally you do need some sort of treatment. But our body is meant to... for stability.
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Chapter 7: How can oral microbiome testing prevent systemic diseases?
So that's why toothpaste has fluoride in it. It also will lower the critical pH. So the critical pH is the pH of which your enamel will start to demineralize or degrade. And for enamel, it's 5.5. And then for dentin, it's closer to 6.5. So what fluoride does is it raises the pH resistance.
I see. So for people that aren't familiar with pH, it's a measure of how alkaline or acidic a given environment or something is. And so what you're telling me is that fluoride makes teeth ultra strong. It's not a mineral that teeth normally see.
Like if a child never used fluoridated toothpaste or drank fluoridated water, they basically, unless they happen to drink from a stream with fluoride in it, their teeth would rely on hydroxyapatite to remineralize. But we put fluoride into toothpaste and into water and that allows teeth to become even stronger and even more acid resistant.
Yes. Some out there argue the enamel structure actually is weaker. This is very nuanced, but generally the dental community believes it's a stronger version of enamel. Some will argue when you look under scanning electron microscopy, the crystalline structure can be more wave-like and potentially the bonds could break more easily. But generally, you know, topical fluoride does work.
However, it is no match for a poor diet, you know, so all of this really comes back to what you're eating. So it will make you less at risk for cavities, but it's not a shoo-in, like it's not for sure going to prevent decay.
What are the times in each 24-hour cycle when our teeth are repairing themselves? So like in the middle of the night, provided somebody's asleep, they're not eating. They're not drinking unless they get up for a moment and have a sip of water or something. In between meals, they're not eating.
If I just sort of naturally intermittent fast, I generally eat my first bite of food somewhere around 11 a.m., sometimes a little earlier. But But that's just habit that sort of falls under this intermittent fasting kind of thing. So I and many people have stretches of time of anywhere from three to 14 hours when we're not ingesting any food or caloric beverages.
Is that when remineralization occurs?
It's a tricky word. It's a tough one.
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