Habits and Hustle
Episode 419: Vanessa Van Edwards: The Power of Body Language and Charisma for Effective Communication
Tue, 28 Jan 2025
Have you ever wondered what makes someone truly charismatic? In this episode of the Habits and Hustle podcast, I talk with Vanessa Van Edwards, a behavioral investigator and author, who shares fascinating insights into the science of charisma. We discuss valuable insights on how to master the subtle yet powerful cues that impact our interactions with others and the science behind oxytocin and connection. We also dive into practical tips on everything from crafting the perfect handshake to harnessing the power of vocal tone and body language in various contexts, including video calls and digital communication, to ultimately lead to greater success and confidence in all aspects of life. Vanessa Van Edwards is the bestselling author of "Captivate: The Science of Succeeding with People" and "Cues: Master the Secret Language of Charismatic Communication," which have been translated into 17 languages. As a renowned behavioral investigator, she shares science-backed skills to improve interpersonal communication and leadership through her engaging workshops, courses, and popular YouTube tutorials, which have garnered over 50 million views. What We Discuss: 02:06 The importance of warmth and competence in charisma 04:31 Balancing warmth and competence cues 16:08 Tips for video calls and virtual communication 18:29 The science behind oxytocin and connection 22:58 Handshake styles and what they convey 27:29 Primal instincts in physical greetings 30:57 Personal space zones and intimacy 34:37 The power of gestures in communication 39:16 Vocal cues and the "TED talk voice" 48:00 The impact of genuine vs. fake smiles 51:12 Power posing and confident body language 54:07 Cues in digital communication (email and texting) …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: AquaTru: Get 20% off any purifier at aquatru.com with code HUSTLE Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Vanessa Van Edwards: Website: https://www.scienceofpeople.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vvanedwards/
Chapter 1: What is charisma and why is it important?
Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it.
Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor, Therasage. Their TriLight panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go.
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Today, we had Vanessa Van Edwards, who I'm a huge fan of. I've been watching Vanessa's videos on YouTube forever. She is a behavioral investigator, and she started a company called The Science of People. She's also a major bestselling author. Her first book is called Captivate, The Science of Succeeding with People.
She's also a body language trainer, and she specializes in science-based people skills. Her latest book is called Cues, which was amazing. And it is for anybody and everyone who wants to either read other people or really activate their strengths and make sure they're bringing them forward. She talks about what makes somebody charismatic, what makes somebody likable.
how you win over anybody or influence somebody just by how you move, what you say, like how you say it. It's just, I can go on and on, but I don't want to, I'm basically like butchering this, but trust me, listen to the podcast. You're going to get so much out of it. Enjoy. On today's episode, we have Vanessa Van Edwards, who I am just smiling.
I'm grinning from ear to ear because, you guys, I have been waiting for this interview for months. Her information is so amazing. She wrote a book called Cues. Her other book was called Captivate. I like the C words. Yeah, you really do.
Confidence, charisma, cues, captivation. Why is that? I don't know. They're such good words.
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Chapter 4: How do body language and gestures influence first impressions?
Literally your first word, that's when someone decides how confident you are. And it's usually based just on the tone. I think that study came out in the early 2000s. I think Elizabeth Holmes read that study. You think so? I do. I think she read it and she went, wow, great. This is the clearest link to confidence we have. Women need to be taken more seriously.
I'm going to take this study and I'm going to go so low that no one can question my confidence and my competence. So what she did is she went too low. She went to really low down here, so she was talking like this. The problem is we all can hear the inauthenticity in this. It's actually distracting. So when she was talking, it was like, what is happening with her voice?
So I think she read that setting and took it one step too far. Well, what's interesting, though, is she did raise almost a billion dollars, right? with that voice. She did. And she was like a kid from Stanford, right? It worked. It worked. It worked. So what is interesting is, again, that's a cue gone wrong.
But these are cues that actually, it may be a cue gone wrong, but these cues are so subliminal that even if you know it's happening, it still happens. And like, investors and employees would say, her voice sounded weird, but boy, did she sound like she knew what she was talking about. Well, 100%. Like, first of all, does anyone have any video or...
Has anyone ever heard her speak before the Theranos? Yes, I've listened to many of them. I did a little breakdown of Theranos. Yes, you can find clips of her on a podcast where her voice is much higher. It was much higher. Oh my gosh. Obviously higher? Yes, absolutely obviously higher. And also employees have said that when she was drunk, I saw that on the special, on the documentary.
By the way, if you want to hear the perfect example of her low voice, go listen to the first one minute of her TED Talk. It's bizarre. Like, it's so low and it's halty. How do you stay that low for so long? Oh, my gosh. It must have been, like, exhausting for her. Maybe that's why she wore turtlenecks. Yeah, exactly. It's like it helps to cover up her vocal cords. Totally.
So, in your first few lines of your video call, of your phone call, of your date… You do not want to go, hi. That is a mistake that we all make is we take in a deep breath and we say hello on the upper part of our breath. So we say, oh, it's so good to see you. So I hate that. So we listen to recordings in our lab. We've listened to recordings of phone calls, of sales pitches, of negotiations.
And always the highest note someone has is their very first word, which is so sad because that means all of their confidence is given away in their very first words. People go, hey, it's so good to hear from you. It's true, but the problem is it's like a very weird blend because you're trying to be warm with a warm cue. You want to come across open and nice. Yeah. So you go high. Of course. Right?
Remember that a high voice tone is not warm. A high voice tone just means excited. Yeah. So like, for example, we talk to babies. We talk to puppies. Yeah. Hello, little one. How are you? Excitement, not warmth. So warmth comes from vocal warmth. So listen to the difference. Vocal warmth is we hear happiness. We hear compassion. We hear smiling. And actually smiling changes the sound of our voice.
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Chapter 6: How can we effectively use cues in digital communication?
is because you don't have to be a naturally, emotionally, highly intelligent person to get these things. So I was going to say to you, I think that there are people who are naturally more gifted than others in picking up these social cues and to be like, okay, I got to dial in that warmth. I got to like take it back a bit.
But the majority of people do need help in these searches because they walk away kind of like, well, why did that interview go badly? Or why did that date go badly? Why did I get a no? Why did I get a no, right? And so if you have the tools and the information to understand more, it is so powerful. Oh my gosh, it's so empowering. Empower, exactly. It's so empowering.
And I also like what we don't realize, and this is what gets me excited about this one, is our cues are contagious, right? So it's not just you being in control of your cues lets you show up how you want to show up. That's one part of the equation. The second more exciting part of the equation for me is if you show up more warm and more competent, you trigger other people's warmth and competence.
So if I'm with my team, if I'm with my family, if I'm with my friends and I'm showcasing very purposefully in control, warmth and competence, they are catching that warmth and competence. That if we show up as our most charismatic self, that is the single best way to make everyone around us be their most charismatic self.
And also, to add on to that, so in order to be successful, to be successful, it's not about being the most competent or being the most warm. It's about really having that real perfect blend. So you don't have to be the smartest. You just have to have enough charisma or have the... The blend of charisma to get your goal done. Exactly. And also, there's one last area that we haven't talked about.
Okay. Which is you mentioned smart people being the smartest person. This is the problem I think that smart people make. Yeah. Smart people are smart. They rely on their really good ideas. And they think, I have a great idea. I'm really smart. That's enough. And so they show up to pitches. They show up to meetings. And they're like, why aren't people getting my ideas? Yeah.
And again, the research proves you can have the smartest idea in the world, but if you're not lubricating it with warmth, people cannot believe it. So what will happen is smart people, they double down on competence, and that doesn't work. And they wonder, what is happening? So then they go sterile.
And that's the last area that we are trying to fight against, is a lot of really powerful smart people don't know what to do with their cues, so they undercue. They under-signal. So you'll notice it now, especially in the last five years, it feels like people have decided stoic is good. Being unreadable is good. Well, I don't know what cues to send.
I don't know how to be warm and confident, so I'm going to send no cues at all. And so what's happening is we're getting on video calls, we're watching presentations with people who are like robots. They're trying to conceal their facial expressions. They're trying to conceal their body. They try to be as unreadable as possible. The problem is muting, going mute, is in itself a cue.
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Chapter 7: What handshake styles convey different messages?
If you want someone to respond to you, if you don't have plans, but you want them to engage. It's using words that are going to wake people up. So it's not like, how's your day going? Meh. Right. So boring. It's what's good today? We're like, even just like that very small switch, asking someone, how are you? You're going to get good, busy. Exactly. Or nothing. Or nothing. Right.
Asking someone, what's good? What's good? You're going to get like, oh, what's good? What's good? What's good? Well, you know, I've just had a beautiful cup of coffee. Me too. We should get one together next week. Right. Like it's using more, being a little spicer. Like you'd be, I mean, listen, you could be a great like matchmaking coach too. You know what?
Back in the day, matchmaking was like my dream career. I would like love it. Oh, I would love it too. I would do personality assessments on people. I would do body language analysis. By the way, I'm getting to that. Don't even think you're getting away with Scott Free. I didn't even get to the hard stuff yet. I'm getting through all this stuff. Is there hard stuff?
No, not, but listen, I'm getting through the stuff that's like, you know, very tactile for people who are maybe for work, for business. Like, okay. Give me a hard one. Emails. Okay. Well, first of all, I have a bunch. I want to talk about like even how, and I want to talk about the Shark Tank pitches. Like you analyze like 500 of them, right? 495.
And you notice which ones, why the ones that did well versus not? Yes. Okay. Talk about that. And then I want to get into the science of personality, knowing like even like opposites. Like if you're a neurotic person. Yes. I found that stuff. So interesting.
So interesting.
That would be matchmaking stuff for sure. And also just like in terms of like relationships in general. 100%. Like, if you're in one and it's not working and why it's not working, I think that was fascinating when I heard you talk about that stuff. I mean, the personality stuff is the basis of all of our relationships, right?
So, okay, so we'll talk about it.
Start taking them personality. Is that good? Perfect. I mean, I have all these other things. I want to talk about the interrupter, which I've interrupted you a million times. No, we're talking. It's great. Okay. And the science of popularity. Oh my gosh. Well, you got to pick. Which one are we going to do? Do the Shark Tank, but do it quickly so we can move on. Don't stay on it forever.
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