Behind the Bastards
Part Two: Dire Wolves, Dr. George Church & The De-Extinction Grift
Thu, 05 Jun 2025
Robert explores Dr. Church's weird history with eugenics adjacent projects, like the world's creepiest dating app, and how Colossal Biosciences was created and immediately used by the Trump administration as an excuse to attack the Endangered Species Act.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: What is the history of Dr. George Church's projects?
are you obsessed with true crime then you're gonna love true crime tonight i'm body moving i'm courtney armstrong and i'm stephanie lidecker we've all worked together for years and now we're trying something brand new we're unpacking all the latest true crime headlines we'll be covering all the major trials that are heating up the summer and yes we'll also be covering scandals that we're all obsessed with
pulls out of his backpack syringes. What?
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It's April 2020. A woman announces on Facebook that she has COVID and won't be seeking medical attention.
I didn't want to be talked out of this plan.
Then she disappears. Anyone else think this is strange? I just had to know. How did this happen?
Listen to What Happened to Talena Zarr on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1.
Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.
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Chapter 2: How did Jeffrey Epstein influence scientific research?
At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer.
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I think everything that might have dropped in 95 has been labeled the golden years of hip-hop.
It's Black Music Month and We Need To Talk is tapping in. I'm Nyla Simone, breaking down lyrics, amplifying voices, and digging into the culture that shaped the soundtrack of our lives.
Like, that's what's really important and that's what stands out is that our music changes people's lives for the better.
Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
So anyway, he had proposed bringing back Neanderthals by genetic engineering and using an actual human woman to serve as their surrogate mother. Oh, no. He described in the book the ideal surrogate to rebirth the Neanderthal race as, quote, an extremely adventurous female human. Oh, man.
You can feel however you want about this, but my, maybe, Sophie, you can chime in here, depending on how, if you feel I'm getting this wrong. It's kind of fucked up to call her a female human as opposed to, like, an adventurous woman. Like, either way, it's fucked up, but female human seems worse somehow than, like, we're going to find some adventurous woman, right?
I don't know if neither is good, but female human? Like, you sound like a Star Trek character. You sound like Quark talking about ladies.
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Chapter 3: What are the implications of de-extinction?
It's really funny when people sort of like sink into these types of sciences because like you want your dog to live longer. Just stop making it fuck its cousin. You know what I mean?
Right. That's part of it. Right.
Stop breeding them till they're like sick the second they come out and let them be whatever random mutt that they all are kind of supposed to be.
Yeah. And, you know, for the record, if we ever find a way to make dogs live like 60 years, I'm on board. Ditto cats. You know, I don't have an issue with like keeping our pets alive with us. I'd welcome their presence the entire time. I'd welcome their presence.
I would do so many things to keep my dog alive longer.
There's no evidence that this thing he's talking about is going to work really on dogs. And even if it can extend the lifespan, it's also – it's not the same as reversing age necessarily. But also, even if – and again, these are all many – these ifs are increasingly fractional long shots.
Even if this study works on dogs, even if there proves to be an application on human beings, any resultant therapy – that allows you to extend human lifespan or reverse human age will be exhaust and outlandishly expensive. So expensive that it will only be available to guys like Jeffrey Epstein, right?
In response to Dr. Church's claims about age reversal, science historian Nathaniel Comfort noted, lengthening the lives of rich Westerners, the obvious customers, would be the biggest ecological crime since Standard Oil. It's hard to argue with that. That's true. Yeah. That's pretty fair. Obviously, that doesn't mean we wouldn't do it. There's two separate questions. Is this ethical? No.
Is this possible? Also, so far, no, right? That said, I should note that the ethics of this are not a topic that Church ignores. There's a whole other CBS article I found where he talks about genetic equality and emphasizes the fact that he keeps an ethicist on staff. Quote, he does not want to see a world in which big advances in genetic engineering are available only to those who can afford it.
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Chapter 4: How does genetic dating relate to eugenics?
My favorite line on there was, my son and my daughter gonna be proud when they hear my old tapes. Now I'm curious, do they like rap along now?
Yeah. Cause I bring him on tour with me and he's getting older now too. So his friends are starting to understand what that type of music is. And they're starting to be like, yo, your dad's like really the goat. Like he's a legend. So he gets it.
What does it mean to leave behind a music legacy for your family?
It means a lot to me, just having a good catalog and just being able to make people feel good. Like, that's what's really important, and that's what stands out, is that our music changes people's lives for the better. So the fact that my kids get to benefit off of that, I'm really happy, or my family in general.
Let's talk about the music that moves us. To hear this and more on how music and culture collide, listen to We Need to Talk from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hi, listeners. I'm Melissa Jeltsin, host of What Happened to Talena Zarr. It's the story of a woman who disappears in the early days of COVID lockdowns and the group of online sleuths who try to find her.
I didn't want to be talked out of this plan. After I post this, I am turning off my phone for exactly this reason.
I kept just kind of asking everybody, anyone else think this is strange?
You'll notice that about me. I don't lurk. I'm out there. I'm an action kind of girl.
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