With no cameras in the courtroom, one of the key people taking in every word and noting reactions in the courtroom is ABC Coordinating Producer Tonya Simpson who’s there with her pen and notebook. We’ll get her take on the dramatic testimony of Cassie Ventura, the government’s first major witness. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the focus of the 'Star Witness' episode?
Hey, it's Brad Milkey. This week on the Crime Scene Weekly, we're talking about a mom who gained national attention for faking her own kidnapping. Sherry Papini is back in the spotlight, but now she's changing her story and trying to change her custody arrangement with her kids. Listen to the latest from the case on the Crime Scene Weekly.
A warning that this episode includes discussion of violence, sexual assault, and suicide. So please take care when listening. This week, USA v. Sean Combs has been mostly about one witness, singer Cassie Ventura, who was in a romantic relationship with Sean Combs for over a decade. Cassie brought the first civil lawsuit against Combs in 2023.
It included allegations of sex trafficking and was settled quickly with no admission of guilt. This week, we learn through her testimony the amount of that settlement, $20 million. For a long time, that lawsuit was the only look we had into her experience with Sean Combs.
I remember when we were researching earlier episodes of this podcast, the lawsuit was one of the very few sources of information we had to draw from to try to understand her side of things. And now, here's Cassie Ventura, sitting in court, very pregnant, answering question after question, testifying to how she believes Sean Combs held her career back.
How she started off participating in orchestrated sex performances called freak-offs because she wanted to please Combs. How she says leaving a freak-off early led to Combs beating her in the hallway of the Intercontinental Hotel back in 2016. The jury saw videos of that incident captured by the hotel's surveillance cameras.
Combs denies the federal charges of sex trafficking, racketeering conspiracy, and interstate transportation for prostitution he's facing, and he's pled not guilty. Under cross-examination, the defense asked Cassie to read texts she'd sent to Combs. Texts, they say, show her willingness, eagerness, and agency in the relationship.
The defense also questioned whether her reluctance to participate in Combs' freak-offs was because she wanted their relationship to develop more, and to be more than their sexual encounters. In other words, was the story more about jealousy and infidelity than the serious charges Combs is facing?
One of the people keeping an extremely close eye on everything happening in the courtroom is my colleague, Tanya Simpson. She's a coordinating producer for ABC's investigative unit. We're going to talk about what she heard and observed while sitting in the courtroom when Cassie was on the stand. I'm Brian Buckmeyer, an ABC News legal contributor and practicing attorney.
You're listening to Bad Rap, the case against Didion. This episode, Star Witness. Tanya, you and I have both been in court every day. I think we've been like line buddies as well for a while. We've heard some really incredible testimony. And I say incredible, not because it's like amazing, but just almost beyond belief. Most notably from Cassie Ventura, Diddy's ex.
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Chapter 2: Who is Cassie Ventura and why is her testimony significant?
How to present them, who gets to see them, ABC was actually part of a coalition of news organizations that argued that the media, or at least a small pool of journalists, should be able to see these videos so that we can describe what's in it, report on it, but not to actually publish the images or videos. The judge said no.
So only the jurors, the witness, Cassie, were able to look at these still images on screens in front of them. The attorneys had hard copies of the images in a binder. I wonder what you make of that decision.
I understood why the judge came to the conclusion that they did. There are competing constitutional rights in the courtroom at any given time. Privacy rights of the alleged victim, constitutional rights of the defendant, but also constitutional rights of the public and the media. And I think when all of these butt heads, the court errs on the side of
Let's protect the person who has gone through these alleged acts. While they are allegations, there are documentations and photos of them as well. And I think the belief is that we as journalists can have the ability to articulate what we saw and heard in court sufficiently enough to inform the public without, as the court suggested, re-traumatizing Cassie or anyone else who takes the stand.
We do have the opportunity, because we're in court, to see how the jury and people in the courtroom react. So how did they react when they saw some of these very graphic pieces of evidence and also hear the testimony?
There were definitely reactions from the jury during some of the really graphic points. At one point when Cassie was describing being urinated on, I saw several jurors look down at the floor and shake their heads. They looked a little disgusted.
During Cassie's testimony, when jurors were given the opportunity to see still images from videos of freak-offs, there were a couple of jurors I noticed would look at the screens in front of them and look away pretty quickly, like they didn't really want to look closely. Something else that I noticed during Cassie's testimony that wasn't as graphic, the jurors are riveted. Their eyes are on her.
A lot of times in court, it looks like a tennis match. The jurors will look back and forth between the prosecution or the defense attorney and back to the person they're questioning. During Cassie's testimony, most of the jurors have been locked in. I've seen some of them leaning in. They're taking a lot of notes.
During these graphic sections of the testimony, not a lot of note taking, not a lot of looking at Cassie. It is a lot of looking down, looking uncomfortable. Like I said, looking a little disgusted and even a little sad for her.
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Chapter 3: What are the allegations against Sean Combs?
And then the first day I was like, these sound like the elements of a crime that would be more in line with domestic violence from the facts that we were hearing. But on the second day of testimony, that's when I started to hear testimony and evidence. And also the way that Cassie was talking about Sean Combs, I was like, I've heard this tone before. I have heard this type of conversation before.
I have heard these elements before. And that's when I started to piece together, I think they're getting closer to the trafficking allegations. Now I say closer because they still need to have individuals come forward and testify to say, I was part of this criminal enterprise. Sean Combe did this intentionally for the purpose of trafficking. This wasn't just a violent relationship.
I think they still need a lot of pieces, but I'm starting to see the pieces align with what the government is accusing in the second day of testimony.
And I also think in my non-expert, non-legal opinion, I think that Cassie's testimony has done a lot for the charge of transportation to engage in prostitution. She has testified about multiple cases. escorts that they hired and how these same escorts, they would see them in different cities, in different states. She talked about how they would arrange travel for some of the escorts.
At one point internationally, she says they flew an escort to Ibiza for a freak off. I want to get your thoughts on that. And also, what about the racketeering?
So I always hate to look over a defense attorney's shoulder and be like, this argument doesn't really make sense. But when the defense made the argument that this is not transportation for the sake of prostitution, because Sean Combs was paying for the time of escorts and dancers because he was just believing he was paying for their time, wasn't paying for sex.
I kind of looked over at people and be like, come on now. Come on now.
Is that what you got, Faze?
Is there more coming, Faze? Come on now. And the defense that they were making, I just didn't think really worked out. And it just seems like an easy layup for the government and the way they're presenting this case. So I don't see an argument to combat what you're articulating. And I agree, the easily laid out facts that make out that charge.
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Chapter 4: How did Cassie Ventura describe her experiences in court?
I mean, with your handwriting, we should just photocopy it and send it to the jurors at this point. I think it would work out much better. But that's kind of the downside there. Thanks to ABC coordinating producer Tanya Simpson for joining me for this episode. Tanya, I'll be seeing you back in the courtroom.
Before we go, if you or someone you know is a victim of sexual assault, please call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-HOPE or go to rainn.org. That's it for this episode of Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy. Make sure to check out a new special from ABC News called Diddy on Trial. That's now streaming on Hulu.
Nightline co-anchor Byron Pitts sits down with Charlucci Finney, a music producer and longtime friend of Combs, in his first network interview. Here's a clip from the special. I never received a dollar from him as a payroll. That's my brother. Blood make you related, but loyalty make you family. You can find Diddy on Trial from Impact by Nightline only on Hulu.
If you have something you're curious about in the Diddy trial, leave a voicemail for me at 646-504-3221. You might even hear me answer it next week on the podcast. The number again is 646-504-3221. You can also find it on our show notes. Thanks to everyone who's called in to ask your questions so far. Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy is a production of ABC Audio. I'm Brian Buckmeyer.
Our podcast production team includes Vika Aronson, Nancy Rosenbaum, Audrey Maztek, Amira Williams, Tracy Samuelson, and Sasha Aslanian. Special thanks to Stephanie Morris, Caitlin Morris, Liz Alessi, Katie Dendas, and the team at ABC News Live. Michelle Margulis is our operations manager. Josh Cohan is ABC's director of podcast programming. Laura Mayer is our executive producer.
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