Zach Lowe
Appearances
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Many, many times, but yes, including... taking that moment as a, hey, wait a second, let's take stock of this guy's Warriors career, which felt a little like it was on shaky ground as the Warriors were approaching, you know, do we pay all of these guys, the young guys, the old guys, everybody? Can we do that? And if not, who's the casualty?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Um, It felt like the punch changed his standing within the Warriors. They've all acknowledged that. That was very hard for the team to get over. It was very hard for Jordan Poole to get over. Then you follow it up with the suspensions, right? Last season, we get suspended for I don't know how many games. It was indefinitely after the Gobert incident and then the Nurkic incident.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And then there was like the flirtation with Memphis in free agency that I think was at least semi real, you know, or the potential of it anyway. Yeah. I mean, it's, but, but I always wrote, I mean, you know, who's sad listening to this is the guy who signed with Dallas in free agency to play with Luca and make some spot up threes. And I always wrote that those three guys were, it was magic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Like it's why you play basketball. To get that kind of level of feel and chemistry and just you can do it with your eyes closed. You know where everyone's going to be at all time, that those three guys were meant to play together and should have played together forever. And at least two of them look like they are going to play together forever in their NBA lives.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I was going to say, he's almost dejected from every third game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And by the way, if you're right, and there's never going to, maybe one day though, LeBron will talk about this and try to make himself the protagonist of that one step ahead thing. Draymond has also tried to make himself the protagonist of like almost everything good that's happened for the Warriors, including, you mentioned the 2022 finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
The turning point for him was getting in Jalen Brown's head. That was like being physical with Jalen Brown, getting in his head. Oh my God, I knew we had him at that moment. I mean, he said that. But if you turn out to be right about this LeBron thing, what a tribute to Draymond Green's greatness, actually, that LeBron thought it was worth getting him out of the series for a game, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
That he respected him that much. But you mentioned all these prior teammate combinations. And what's super interesting about this one is that we've seen, like Tatum and Brown, you went Tatum and Brown and backwards to some of the historical ones. We've seen the game has been ruled by big men, like you mentioned, Mikael, low post guys, Shaq and Kobe, we can go on and on, and big wings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
These guys are neither of those things, and they're both totally unusual superstars or stars, whatever you want to call a dream on in NBA history, and almost archetypal players that that are specifically archetypal to this era of three-point shooting, which Steph revolutionized and accelerated. The development was going to happen anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And Draymond, as the ultimate switch defender, when more defenses were like, we just got to try and switch everything because this shooting is so massively important and swings so many games. And Draymond... may not have a good sort of analog in the history of the NBA. Steph obviously has no analog in the history of the NBA. And Steph is one of one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Draymond became this weird archetype where for about four or five years, people searched the draft for, we got to find someone like Draymond. Can we find our Draymond? Can Grant Williams be our kind of Draymond Green? Grant Williams is the funniest one. Yeah, and it was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It's just so interesting that you go through those pairs of superstars and these two guys are just strange in terms of body type, skill set, and not only just strange, but strange and meant to play in this era and meant to play together in this era.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
On websites that are dead, that are gone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
To dark time. Remember that? The Rudy Gay discourse. Dark times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Always the foil in this story. David Lee, a very good NBA player who could do a lot of good NBA things, including, you know, remember that finals when they started to go small against the Cavaliers and it was like a garbage time of a game they were losing. And David Lee was like heavily involved. Yeah. Yeah. Draymond, you know, was picked 35th in a draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Warriors picked him after they picked Festus Azeale in the same draft. So it's kind of like the old, you know, when I used to wax poetic to the Spurs about, you know, Manu Ginobili's the greatest draft pick in the history of the NBA. You guys were such geniuses picking him at 50, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And they would always tell me, well, if we were such geniuses, why did we pick Gordon Gierosek like 25 spots higher in the same draft? Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And it's the same with Azeale and Draymond, but Maybe Draymond is the only one that expected anything even 50% as great as the career and impact he ended up having on a team that ended up being the absolute perfect place for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
No, I mean, it's been whispered about for so long. I... Can we ever really confirm it? I mean, has anyone in the room in a public setting come out and confirmed it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
You keep Curry, you get, not only that, how about, how about you get the discount on his first contract four years, 44 million or something like that, that allows you to do all this other stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I don't remember exactly what it was except that Clay was in it. I think I remember iterations being discussed with Clay and Harrison Barnes, both in it. I don't remember exactly what it would have been other than it was a clear like Clay was in the trade. It was like Splash Brothers or no Splash Brothers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Jerry West was ready to throw himself in front of the train tracks on that. It's like, we're not doing this. This is a bad move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
No, he always, he hated his portrayal in winning time and RIP to the logo. One of the best, one of the best ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
No, no, I'm actually I want to I'm trying to remember in my head the sequence of events from that series. I'm looking up the game log. So I'm going to talk about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
They pulled away down the stretch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
So I was at the game. And I have this memory of doing something after the game with Jay Adande, maybe. I don't know why that would make sense. And, you know, when you're at these games, sometimes you're not looking at the video feed like... in detail. And none of us realized at the time exactly what had happened and put together what was possible. And now this is why I was looking back at it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
So that was June 10th, 108, 97 Warriors win. There were two days off until the next game in the Bay, June 13th. And I remember they took a while to rule on it because I went out to dinner on June, what would be June 11th, I guess, with a couple of Warriors people. And they were like, I mean, the level of tension, it was not that fun of a dinner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
But it was not a fun dinner because they didn't know still what was going to happen with Draymond. They were fuming about what they viewed as lobbying by the Cavaliers. for a suspension. They were fuming because they thought the league was going to quote. I mean, teams see everything through the lens of their own bias and what is good or bad for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And they viewed it like the league's going to scapegoat Draymond. We can see this coming. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was not a fun dinner. And then it was another full day until they announced the suspension. Then he goes and watches it from the A's. Did he go to the A's game or so? He was in a luxury box somewhere with Bob Myers, I remember.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
So you think the suspension was it, but it was a flagrant points thing. It was, he had accumulated all the points, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I'm reading it now. This is Kiki Vandeway, Kiki Vandeway involved. I remember, I remember they were waiting to hear from Kiki's back. The cumulative point system is designed to deter flagrant fouls in our game. Kiki Vandeway said, while Draymond Green's actions in game four do not merit a suspension as a standalone act, the number of flagrant points he has earned triggers a suspension of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
for game five. And I remember he had a couple of really dumb ones in the early in that series. There was one where he like throws Michael, I think Michael Beasley is involved. He plays for the Rockets at that time. And he throws them to the ground and like almost garbage time of like a decided game. You're like, what are you, what are you doing, man? And there was, that's the Steven Adams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Well, he hit Steven Adams in the balls two different times. Yeah, which Adams reminded us of. They're still going at it right now, Steven Adams and Draymond Green.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It felt like a... We've seen this series a hundred times, a million times before. Road favorite...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
wins game four kind of a tough gutsy win on the road goes up three finishes the job at home like we've all seen this but we're taping this on tuesday at 6 45 there's like three series resuming tonight that feel exactly like that in the current first round so you wrote when you wrote about draymond you used a word that i thought was a great word and i wanted to put it in the context of uh
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Oh, no question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Double amplification for the Warriors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Yeah, Draymond's on another level from those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Well, let's be simple about it. You know, people do this thing with Draymond where they're like, well, what would he be if he got drafted by the Pistons and he doesn't have Steph? How many even ex-players have sort of derided Draymond like this? He has Steph and Klay and all he has to do is throw handoffs to them. Wow, big whoop, Draymond Green. Yeah, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
He's not the same player without Steph Curry. Almost nobody would be. If you're ranking the reasons why the Warriors have four championships in the last whatever years, it's Steph Curry up here at number one, and then a giant gap between whatever you think number one and number two, what number two is. And that's fine and fair. Draymond has two things that I think are indisputable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I think he's a Hall of Famer. I think he should be a Hall of Famer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I mean, come on. Even... Whatever. He's the greatest defender of his generation, which I would define as sort of like the post-KG Duncan generation of players. He might be the most versatile defender in modern NBA history. He is... There's this alternate reality where...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Okay, so imagine the Warriors without Draymond Green, but they have Steph Curry and Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes and whatever else. They're still awesome. They still might be a championship team. You could replace Draymond with... I use Clint Capella as my stand-in, screen and dive, spread pick and roll center, blah, blah, blah. But Draymond...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Draymond's ability to play center on defense and switch across every position is completely unique, almost completely unique in modern NBA history. And he's also, while at center, one of the greatest passers on the move in the history of the NBA. And both of those things allow the Warriors to play a style that is completely unusual and unique to them. And he's a big part of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And he lifts up... Curry is better... because of all the stuff Draymond can do when you give him four on threes, when you play a handoff back and forth with him, when you can take certain risks defensively because you can play this super small ball lineup because he's a 6'6 guy who can play center defensively, The defense and the passing. He's led the team in assists many times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
That's what separates him from your glue guy role players. Those dudes aren't dishing 7, 8, 9, 10 assists. You can triple singles. He gets made fun of a lot for that, but those are almost triple doubles. He's a totally unusual player and made the Warriors both unusual and better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Horford is a great name because he's still good at it now. And in his prime, when he was more athletic and faster, he was really, really close in sort of speed and decision making to what prime Draymond is or was. But he wasn't as... Draymond is, I mean, in the stupidest sense, is just so fast. He moves really fast compared to the average big guy who's going to set a screen and roll to the rim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And then he makes his decisions faster and more intelligently than almost everybody else in the league in that situation. It's a really hard... It's not a hard combination to find. It's like a borderline impossible combination to find because there has been no next to Draymond Green.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And, you know, you can do the counterfactuals of like, well, does he even get those four on threes if he's playing with whatever anonymous Eastern Conference guards in Charlotte or Detroit or whatever? And the answer is he doesn't get them in the same way, with the same amount of space, in the same frequency.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
But I do think he would have been a very good player, a great player anywhere, because the defense and the passing are translatable skills to any setting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Well, look, he's 35 years old. It's 2025. And in the first round of the playoffs, he stood up the Houston Rockets best player who has a massive height and weight advantage on him in the most important possession of maybe the entire series. Stood him up. played impeccable defense, forced a miss, let everyone know about it, and let everyone know, like, hey, I'm 35. I'm old now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Don't come at me like that. Go somewhere else on your crunch time possessions, Emeo Doka. It was like he's been sensational.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Fred was rolling and Jalen Green was on the bench. So I was watching him. I was actually watching Jalen Green on the bench because I was doing the body language doctor thing of like, is he engaged? He was engaged.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I got to say, I don't want to plant bad seeds in your head or make this about the Celtics. Peyton Pritchard's on a little cold streak on half court. A little cold streak?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Well, yeah, the 30- to 60-footers aren't falling anymore like they were last playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
The passing is... is what makes it sing on offense. And just like, you know, you go back and watch prime dream on green, defend James Harden as like sometimes the primary assignment often on switch. You're like, Oh, is he the best guy on the Warriors at defending this guy? And also the best guy on the Warriors years later at defending Jokic. Like that's, that's a, that's a unicorn.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Yeah, Steph, Klay, Iguodala, Draymond, Durant. I don't know if we're doing better than that. I mean, I remember being in Denver at a Nuggets-Warriors game pretty early that season. Might have been the season. I don't know. It was sometime in that, 17 and or 17-18. And they did the thing where they were all on the floor together in the third quarter of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And it was just... You didn't even understand what... It was just like a tidal wave. And it was like you lost consciousness watching the game. And it just became this blur of noise and sound and blue jerseys flying around. And all of a sudden, they had put up a 22-2 run in two and a half minutes. I mean, I'm exaggerating a little bit. But it felt like watching the Cyclone
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And good teams, the Nuggets were a good team. We're just looking around like, I don't even understand what's happening to us. Like, what are we supposed to do? Where's the ball? That guy was like unbelievable. It was too much talent, which everybody knew when they got him. It was like, okay, well, this is a wrap for a couple of years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
The 2017 Cavs are the best Cavs team of LeBron's two times in Cleveland. The team that lost in the finals that year, in my opinion, that was the best Cleveland team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I think 13 Heat are going to be tough to beat. That was the Heat team that had the 20-something game winning streak. And they ran into some issues in the playoffs that I thought were a little bit, frankly, beneath them. I thought they should have had an easier time in the East playoffs. And then they beat the Spurs. I think... I mean, 17 Cavs didn't win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
16 Cavs will always be another measuring stick team. I'm going blind. I haven't looked back at the numbers of what that six. Some of those teams, this Cleveland 2.0 teams, as you know, as an Eastern Conference basketball fan, kind of just cruise through parts of the regular season. Conference was terrible. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Indiana took him to seven that year. And he was like, I just don't feel like this Pacers team should be taking these guys to seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Very good team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Relevant to this discussion, where are the Warriors at that time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Durant leaves and Clay... Which is why... And they get three shots in the lottery during their sort of down period. You know, Kaminga, Wiseman, Moody. The payoff has not been substantial. I like Moody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
No, no, I like Moody a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
No, no, no. I think, obviously, the Wiseman thing is a huge bust.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I don't even care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I don't even care. And Kaminga, they got in a masterstroke trade selling as high as possible on D'Angelo Russell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
My point is this. That's why... You know it when you see it. Certain NBA championships just mean more than other NBA championships. Sometimes it's because of a star player finally winning one in his home city like Dirk in 2011. Sometimes it's everything magical comes together for some unexpected team. Sometimes it's a team sort of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
stamping itself like a prior champion, sort of proving like, yeah, the first one was legit. The 2022 Warriors Championship is one of those more special than a lot of other championships because a lot of time had passed since the last Durant won it didn't feel all that likely that they would get back to the mountaintop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
If you look back, it's a strange roster of dudes, many of whom are not there anymore. Klay, Poole, Wiggins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And they are taking advantage of this like interregnum in the West where like the Nuggets are in a waiting period for their guys like Murray and Porter to get back healthy. The Clippers are never healthy and now they are healthy. But they were like, that was a legit awesome Warriors team that leaned back into the style of basketball that Steve Kerr wants to play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
The beautiful game, the ball movement and had enough to squeeze out four series against teams that just kind of weren't ready for all of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Game seven. No, but now we're really off track. But game seven, Dallas, Phoenix and game seven, Boston, Milwaukee were the same day that year. Oh, my God. You're right. And I was traveling to Chicago for the combine and my flight was like so poorly timed. Like it took off in the middle of the third quarter of Celtics Bucs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And then it was going to land and Suns-Mavs would already be, you know, first quarter, second quarter. I was like, I'm going to miss like so much. And I land and it's like Celtics win by a lot. Grant Williams makes a million threes. And then I get to my hotel and I load up the Suns-Mavs game. I'm like, what? And it's over. I don't even have to watch this anymore. This is crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
What the hell is going on? And the Warriors win the title and Draymond is really good. End of story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
He's going to be the Shaq... Shaq is to MVPs what Draymond is to Defensive Player of the Year, or on a larger scale, even Jordan to MVPs. We're all going to look back at their career and be like, he only won one, and these other guys won more than that. He's a... It's sometimes it's like it's a regular season award. He misses time. He gets whatever, like he gets injured. The team is so good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It doesn't even matter. Gobert is playing 82 game, but we all know it goes back to something Draymond himself said, 62, 82 game player or 16 game player. He's a better 16 game player on defense alone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
You're always taking Draymond. He's a better 16-game defender than Rudy Gobert. A 16-game, four series, four different kinds of opponents. He's better. And unfortunately for him, the belt is now going to be in San Antonio for a very long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It's all a matter of, I mean, defense is still statistically sort of harder to parse than offense, right? So sometimes when you're at this level, it becomes a matter of taste. Like Garnett should be in the conversation, Olajuwon... you know, whoever you, we can go through all the greatest defenders in NBA history. He's in the conversation. That's where Draymond Green is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Whether you think he's the best, the fifth best, the fourth best, the third best, whatever he, that's where he lives in this conversation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
No, but you are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
When he decided, hey, it's at half court. How about I just go take it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Thanks for participating in my exercise. I'm just going to take the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
By default. I'd have to look back at who's contemporary with who's old, who's young, but he certainly was there many times defense player of the year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Some good playoff history in that one too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Sonic's Nuggets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I won't entertain Hakeem Robinson. I won't entertain it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It's Hakeem. I'm not entertaining.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
He's a dream teamer. What happened in the playoffs in 1995, the rest of it is irrelevant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Those are cumulative for those seasons?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
You didn't go stat muse? You didn't go stat muse?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Alex Ovechkin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And not included in any of that search data is can defend every position on the floor, including seven-foot centers, which Avery Johnson or Jose Calderon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Whatever the highest is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I don't know. Is that where ELO? I don't play chess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Can we have multiple? We can only have one 100? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Well, Draymond does what he does. He stands up Shen Goon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
You know exactly. He's done it a billion times. That's what he does. Jimmy Butler is 35 going on 36 injured. And even when not injured is like a below the rim old man kind of player now. And I mean, that is a compliment. He's smart. He cuts, he hits people. He knows what to, but he's not a high flyer. Never really was, but certainly is it now that rebound had the feel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I watched it like five times this morning. It had the feel of, it had the feel of like, this is everything I have left in my body at the end of this game is pouring in to jumping as high as I can with as much force as I can, because Steven Adams is under there. And I know what Steven Adams is, is an offensive rebounder.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It was one of those great athletic sports moments of like digging deep and all the cliches we talked about that rebound is like, he's not jumping that high again, probably for the entire rest of the playoffs. As long as golden state goes on, that was like, this is everything I got.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
If this game goes to overtime, I'm going to feel the pain of this jump for the rest of this game, but I got to get this rebound.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Trade machine summer. This is a Draymond Green segment. Should we talk about that Draymond Green was on the verge of getting ejected? I don't say he was on the verge of getting ejected in that game, but the technical, a flagrant, and the Tari Eason thing where he rolled over him and his foot hit his neck. Yeah. I'm watching that. I'm like, they could throw him out of the game for this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It is maybe an accident. It looks like an accident. It can be plausibly explained away as an accident. But the thing about Draymond Green's accidents, and there are a lot of them, is that it never feels as if he's trying to calm the accident or restrain his limbs from moving in ways that will accelerate and worsen the accident. It's always like, my legs are doing this. You're in the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
My legs are going to keep doing this. I'm not going to try to stop my legs. My legs are doing what they're doing. And if your head's in the way, your head's in the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
And they're reviewing the play, and I'm like, it doesn't really... It looks mostly like an accident. It also doesn't really look good. He already has a technical... He always seems to have a technical. And as you well know, Draymond Green with a technical is like a superhero. He's impervious to technical number two for the most part. He can do whatever he wants.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
He's still a genius. He had a player earlier in this series. I don't remember who he was guarding, but somebody for the Rockets had the ball at the elbow and went to pass to somebody Draymond. It was Draymond's guy. He had the ball at the elbow and he went to pass to a cutter. And Draymond did the thing where he read his mind And it was like almost as if he was ahead of the pass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
He starts drifting away from his own guy and the pass comes and it's essentially a pass to Draymond because Draymond has anticipated, out-anticipated the guy who's actually initiating the action and he passes the ball and Draymond's just there. And it's like, what just, what just, he just like, it's not even just in sync with the ball. He's ahead of the ball. He still makes those plays every game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
It was Sam, Sam Hauser.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
That might be one of his... That is one of his signature passes. And I've watched dozens of them at this point. And sometimes I go back and I rewind it. And I'm like, let me try to find... The last time that he made eye contact, that his head was facing the direction of the player he ends up passing to. And sometimes you just can't find it. Like, there's a defensive rebound. He has the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
He's looking over here. And then the pass comes. You're like, I don't really... I don't know if he ever saw him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Well, it's fitting that we're talking about Jokic's passing and Draymond's defense in the same breath because that's about right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
We're definitely at the stage of the Western Conference playoffs where it's just, okay, well, that path sucks. That path sucks. That path really sucks. I would say, given... the fact that JJ Redick just played the same five guys for an entire half of basketball and they looked gassed at the end. And one of them is 40.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Um, and they don't have the Anthony Davis piece that kind of troubled the Warriors, uh, I would say the Lakers are probably a better matchup. The Warriors would probably prefer to play the Lakers a little bit. That's where I've landed, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Big, nasty, and... I mean, but it's no picnic playing Luka. You look at Luka and LeBron, you're like, I'm really picking that team. But I think, given the respective states of the teams, I think, yeah, I would pick... If I were the Warriors, I'd say I'd kind of rather play the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I think he's at the party.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Yeah, he's at the party.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Next five years?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Great choice, by the way. Can't lose.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
If you have home court for five and potentially seven, you got a chance. I would be surprised if they came back. I would be surprised if this got to seven. I would be surprised if it got to seven. I just think you gas out your team like that. You've sent a message to the team like, we got to win this game. You don't win it. Minnesota's hungry. They're young. They're fresh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
I would be surprised if it got back to seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
He also could just dunk you into pieces and end your season very quickly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Oh, that's a spicy one. Another time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Yes, we're coming off two good games Wednesday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe
Always fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Are we like one of those situations going haywire in the East? is not a thing that will also be haywire and or worse next season. The biggest competitive advantage in all of professional sports probably is being in the Eastern Conference in the NBA. Boston is gone for a year. Miami, we'll see. Maybe they get the ramp. Maybe they do something that makes them interesting. Whatever, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Milwaukee, okay. I mean, over. Philly, I mean, I'm at all believe Joel Embiid plays 50 games again in a season. when I see it with the Sixers. And so I don't like... It is a missed opportunity. It's especially a missed opportunity. You just cannot lose game one the way they did. It's like two losses. You have absolutely no... You have no margin of error left in the series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
You have no margin for anything fluky happening. You have no margin for... you know, just anything going wrong in any game for three minutes. And they, that game is going to come back and haunt them. So what's the second?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
The five-timers club. The five-time theory.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
It's game one of the conference finals in Indiana-Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Why won't the Knicks be better?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
By the way, don't throw anything at Windhorst ever again, anybody, okay? Don't put hands on Brian Windhorst.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I talked about this with JJ on the New York, New York pod today. No bed can be unmade in the NBA of 2025. But if you are in the Knicks front office and you are inclined to think perhaps pessimistically about the Brunson-Katt pairing winning four straight playoff rounds, which you damn well need to have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
If your team's this expensive and you're this all in on picks, you need to have a team you believe can win four straight playoff rounds, especially when three of them are going to be in the junior varsity conference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
That's a whole separate conversation about what making the finals from the East even represents anymore and what those finals are going to look like. But that's a whole separate thing. But if you are pessimistic, I mean, you made your bed. You have Jalen Brunson. You're obviously not moving Jalen Brunson. He's an icon. He saved the franchise. Everything starts with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Karl-Anthony Towns makes a gazillion dollars for several more seasons, is sneakily extension eligible this summer, and will probably want two more years, essentially. Is that true? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I don't think anyone realizes it. He's I'm 99% sure if I'm reading everything correctly, he's extension eligible. And, you know, this was this fanciful, well, they, you know, they got, everyone thinks they got Giannis or they got cat to trade cat for Giannis. And I was always like, what, like, why is that interesting to me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
If I'm the Milwaukee bucks, like what, what is high of just cat now making $65 million in five years. That's awesome. We're going to win 32 games in the East and suck. Yeah. I don't know how you unmake that bed. And I think you... But again, creative people find creative solutions. How would you unmake the bed? What are you doing if you are dubious to this? To me...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I would lean more to, and I think they would lean more to, you know, we use the remaining pick equity we have. We turn, we sign and trade a Chua and a pick. We do something to get one more trustworthy guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
We have these young guys that, you know, Tibbs is going to have to trust like Kolek and Dottie and guys like that in the regular season next year to like, one of those guys has to be able to play 10 minutes in a playoff game like this. Um, and, and go back at it, knowing, again, we have the biggest competitive advantage in sports. I don't know what the out is other than that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Where are you trading towns?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I can't wait to hear. I'm sure there's like a, my big problem, not problem, but my big contract for your big contract that maybe there's a fit thing that is unlocked for both of us, but I don't know who that is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
He does. And you would suspect that, you know, with Brunson taking less and all of this machinations that, you know, that the parameters of that have probably been broached. I would imagine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
They already told us this by trading three picks or two and a half picks for Darren Fox. They already told us what their mindset is going to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I just don't think what you described, even with some of what is remaining of San Antonio's extra draft equity going to Milwaukee, is like the Spurs themselves can beat that offer without anything else. And Houston can certainly beat it. Others can certainly beat it. I think Milwaukee, part of this is going to have to be finding a way to get some control of their own picks back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And so you're now groping in third and fourth teams. But you're going to have to triangulate it somehow. You mentioned Durant. There was some Nick's Durant noise leading to the trade deadline. I don't quite know how that would work. I mean, I know what the common sense salary ingredients would be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I don't know if, if how appetizing that's going to be to either side, but you know, that's a direction too. But I mean, look again, creative minds make stuff happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
So I hear the Tibbs stuff all the time. Yeah. Talked about it with JJ today. Not JJ Redick. John Jastrzemski. And I get it. Like, we've all talked about the minutes load in the regular season, which isn't just a minutes load. It's like a lack of cultivating guys that you might need when shit is going wrong in the playoffs. Yeah. He has been...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
somewhat justifiably labeled like maybe a floor raiser who is not super creative adjusting in the playoffs. I think he is somewhat shed part of that label in the last couple of series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
The Boston series was going their way before Tatum's injury. They baited Boston. They completely scrapped their entire defense in the way they've played to bait Boston into playing a style that favored them. And I just so my question to the Tibbs critics, I get it. I get the criticisms. I get the stodginess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I get like everyone wants their super creative offensive guru to come in and spice things up. Like, who's the guy? Because you have sucked for the better part of 20 to 25 years and you don't suck now. You're in there are four teams playing basketball in the NBA. The Knicks are one of them. they win a lot of games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Like they have a good coaching staff around Tibbs, like some creative thinkers on that staff. Like, so, okay. It's very easy to be like, well, the coach thinks he's not playing DeLon, right? He's not playing Landry's shame, but we're not running the deal. We don't cut like the calves cut and we're not flying around. Okay. Like who's the coach you want to bring?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
He didn't deserve to be fired in Sacramento. It was a catastrophic mistake. Michael Malone is a good coach. Is that changing the direction of your team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
How? I mean... first of all, the list, I think we'd have to go longer than 30.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Tyler, let me add up. Collect salary plus, you know, what can I get up to to get an all NBA power forward who can play defense?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Not might actually. He elevates everybody on his team. He... The Pacers have done a very good job of finding players who can play his style and are willing to play his style. But this is one of those magical basketball things where one player has imbued an entire team with his style. Everybody wants to move and pass and cut faster, harder, more often.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Because the guy who is the fulcrum of everything, all he wants to do is get off the ball and run and fast break and make you get a highlight. That's all he wants to do. Heads up. Always looking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Every shot, every miss at the rim tonight was a fast break the other way. Didn't matter who missed at the rim. Didn't matter if they fell out of bounds. Didn't matter if the floor was unbalanced or not. Every single miss at the rim by the Knicks was a Pacers fast break the other way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
By the way, step one to living a healthy life, just don't read social media ever for any person of just any ilk. You don't even have to have any followers. Just don't be looking at YouTube shorts for two hours a day. It's that your brain is getting dumber by the second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And I thought this was a 50-50 series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And even when he's dribbling for most of a possession... Like they ran the same play seemingly 25 times in the game, including a bunch of times in the fourth quarter where I think the Knicks actually, they got too predictable and they had to snap out of it. But it was a staggered screen with Neesmith. Neesmith was the first screener. Turner was the second screener because Neesmith has Brunson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Turner has cat. And, Even when he dribbles that entire path, he takes both screens, he turns the corner, and he ends up shooting a floater, a layup, a setback too. There's not any wasted time. Even though he's, quote, pounding the ball, he's not bringing it back out for the most part and just dancing with it. It's like forward to diagonal momentum the whole time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Now, there are a couple of times he brought Mitchell Robertson out on the switch. He's like, I'm going to dance with you a little bit and make a three. But there's just no... It's not better or worse. The Celtics won a championship with Tatum and Brown basically being like, I'm going to bully you for 10 seconds to get to the rim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
It's just better for the Pacers and better for Halliburton to play the way that he does and play at the speed that he does. I agree with you. I thought it was the best mix of of him ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And by the way, the biggest shot of the game was when they snapped out of being predictable, ran a different play, and it was a Halliburton-Nemhart pick and roll, which is like, okay, we're going to run that now because Brunson's on Nemhart and Halliburton turned the corner. Actually, Nemhart slipped the screen and Siakam hit the corner three to put him up 118-109.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
It was the biggest shot of the game. And it was an important moment because the Knicks have seen the same play eight or nine times in a row, which is... Even if you're as dynamic as the Pacers, you get in a rhythm defending it. And the Pacers finally realized, like, we got to do something a little different. And then that was not quite the game, but it was the biggest shot of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Well, the interesting conversation about the Pacers, and it's one they've had internally too since they got Siakam, was... And it dovetails with Rosillo saying, if you had to rank Halliburton and Siakam among the top 30 players in the league, where would they rank? And is that high enough for a big two kind of construction? It's the debate of... We still have chips to cash in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
We have control of most of our picks now. Do we need a third all-star level talent in order to really, truly be a contender? And I thought... Obviously not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I think it's a conversation that they've had for two years. And I think they've debated it internally. It's been debated externally. Last year, it was like... Once you get past Halliburton and Siakam, they're 7, 8, 9, or basically the same as 3, 4, 5. Is that a good thing or is that a bad thing? Do they need a little bit more of an A-level talent? Maybe they're about to make the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Maybe this is some sort of magic elixir of a team and it works just fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
he's getting eight free points a game by just being faster than every other big man on the floor. And when they need him to be deliberate, he's picking his spots. It's like, all right, I have McHale bridges on me on a switch. Like I can bully this guy. I have Josh Hart. Like I'm way taller than him. I have a guard. Like I'll be deliberate now. And even me being deliberate is going to be,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
within a couple dribbles getting to the shot that I want to take from the place I want to take it. Can we do two more Pacers? I got two more Pacers stakes to get off. I have a couple too, so go. Let's hear it. Just very quickly, we're talking about Thibodeau. Rick Carlisle is going to elevate himself into some pretty elite territory historically with this run.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And the biggest compliment I can give him is I rarely, if ever... get to the end of a Pacers game or a Pacers series and be like, man, that lever wasn't pulled. He should have done that. That lever. Like I just, I get to the end. I'm like, I can't really think of anything else I would have done. Like he's just got, he's just got his finger on every button.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
So that's my first, that's my first space. Like, I don't, I don't know where you, he's pretty high all time wins. He's got a championship. He only has one, but like, he's going to be in some pretty lofty coach conversations.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And he loves Halliburton and he loved Halliburton from the second that they got him from a team that by the way, had Darren Fox and Tyrese Halliburton and now has none of them. Give me, what's your, what's your next pastry steak?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
What would you have done? So I think I was on television when JJ Redick labeled it franchise malpractice to trade Halliburton for Sabonis. And I thought that was a little harsh because Sabonis is a very good player. But I have been consistent from day one of that trade to when the Kings were the beam team and everything was going great to being like, when everyone would say, it's a win-win trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Wow, what a rare thing. It's a win-win trade. It's not going to be a win-win trade. The Pacers won the trade. The fact that the Sacramento didn't lose it so badly in the short term is cool. It's not a win-win trade. The Indiana won the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And it was clear right away, like long-term, this is not going to be a win-win trade. This is going to be like, oh my God, we traded Kawhi Leonard. By the way, the other Pacers thing is, I've always been, look, I don't mean this facetiously or in a mean way, a very large part of Paul George's NBA legacy is going to be all the great teams that were created in his wake. It's really nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I mean, the Pacers thing is they trade Paul George to Oklahoma City for Oladipo and Sabonis, and that's their team. They built this team. If you follow all the paths from that trade and forget the fact that... Let me see if I do this right. Oklahoma City traded Serge Ibaka for Victor Oladipo in the pick that became... No, it goes further back. I have it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
If you just follow the tentacles of what the Pacers got for Paul George, it leads to this team. And then, of course, the Paul George trade for the Thunder leads to their team that exists right now, basically.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Incredible year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
It's almost 20 years ago. And to your point about not a lot of people doing that, I mean, the price was so exorbitant in modern terms. To look back at it, they got what? It's like all the picks that Sarver threw out in the open to dump money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I mean, this year was, well, first of all, it depends how you're conceiving of the conference, right? Like, one to seven, I think the West was in an unusual state of flux, although I think the Nuggets come out of all of this looking like, okay, yeah, maybe they're still a pretty goddamn tough out at the very least.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
How many West teams do you really love looking back? How many East teams do you really hate looking back?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Well, I mean, Steph gets hurt. I think the Warriors would have been heard from in that Minnesota series for sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I mean, I picked Minnesota to win the series regardless, but I think that's a competitive series. And you can find a lot of people around the league who think the Warriors would win it. Clippers Nuggets, you know, like the Clippers crapped the bed in game seven. They did what the Clippers do, but that was a heavyweight fight. End game one. But it was a heavyweight fight for the most part.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And the East is like Cleveland, Boston, New York, Indiana, and then pretty good foursome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
That's it. I just... This is the... I mean...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
three one three one the odds are must be 80 to 90 percent that we're getting an indiana oklahoma city finals uh league office and the broadcast partners must be doing backflips over over this conspiracy bill will be coming in later to talk about that would you go six seconds less six seconds or less pacers would you go seven would you go five and a half what would be your number
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I think we can do a better nickname that leaves the seconds or less lineage with Phoenix. And there's got to be a pun. Their name is the Pacers. There's got to be a pun or a rhyme or something that if we put a full brain trust of people, if we got the common sense czar of sports, whoever that is, whoever created that term to weigh in, could come up with something unique to the Pacers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Well, I've told the story about meeting him and it is agent and all of that. But sorry, I just clicked on the box score and a video came up because I want to see how many points Aaron Neesmith had tonight with a sprained ankle and looked awesome defending Brunson minus plus or minus one or two plays. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I love Stan. He can't stop. He's more excited about Neesmith fighting over picks than like regular people are about. I'll just leave that there. He's very excited about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Hey, look, like Kevin Pritchard, Chad Buchanan, the entire front office, like, They've killed it. I mean, just like the moves on the fringes, like Oladipo to Levert. Levert, too. I believe they get the picks that become Nemhard and Shepard, including other stuff in the Levert trade. I mean, they've just nailed... Walker's not even playing, and I still like him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I thought he would play in this series. Me, too. I want you to be honest. I've already copped this. Did you remember that Tony Bradley was on the Pacers before Rick Carlisle brought him into Game 2? Did I know he was in the league?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Even when he's bad, do you ever feel worried in any way that Andrew Nembhard is on the floor? On the Pacers' behalf? I just feel like he's doing something helpful all the time. And he turns into an incredible shooter in the playoffs, and he's not been an incredible shooter in the regular season. He's like the anti... all the shooters that suddenly aren't shooters anymore in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I don't want to name names.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I saw a lot of SGA's the best player in the league now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Hey. Jokic had some beers. He's not getting up to answer the door.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Door's locked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, you are very loyal to this format of just, if you're out for the year, you're out of the rankings. I'm not ranking you, which I like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I'm only following it because I heard you talking about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And how 7'7 just sounds strange.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Why not? Where did you have Ant? Four. Feels really high. You had Ant over Luca? Yeah, can I find out if Luca's going to be in shape next season? I like the skinny slash fat photos that go around of players in the offseason when it's like, is it just the clothes they're wearing? Is it just the way they're standing? Like, why are we reading so much into this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Like, you could make me look 20 pounds lighter or 20 pounds heavier very easily.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Luka made the finals in the Western Finals in the three-year span.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
No, it's just interesting that, obviously, everyone is well aware that we have this generation of superstars that are aging, and so they're aging out of discussions like this, like LeBron, although you have Curry in here, too. You also just have, like... And Durant. You didn't mention Durant, and I don't... I can't quibble with it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Like, if you just told a random guy on the street, Tyrese Halliburton's better than Kevin Durant, I think that would get... His team went 35-47 last year or whatever it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Then you have other guys who, like, are just... Joel Embiid's injured all the time. You can't make it. Jimmy Butler's injured. Jimmy Butler, focused, healthy, happy Jimmy Butler is probably in this conversation, but that guy doesn't exist very often anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
He fell hard on his tailbone, and I'm not sure he... We all thought not long ago... that both Morant and Zion would like maybe be in this conversation in Morant's case, like definitely be in this conversation. And they're just like not even sniffing it right now. It's just, it's a strange, it's a strange, strange times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah. I mean, how could you not? Yeah. I still want to live in the alternate universe where game one doesn't fall into like a wormhole that the Knicks just blow in a catastrophic fashion. I'd like to see how it plays out, but how can you not? They, they play a style that just wears people down. They're very hard to play against. They know exactly who they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Kawhi is another one. Kawhi healthy, Kawhi top 10 player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I'm stealing this idea and doing a full on draft on my podcast on Thursday, one to one to 15. Stay tuned for that. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
But then to get that from Jalen Williams, who I wasn't... Combined with Game 7 of the Nuggets series, too. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Now what do we do? And Chet feels like he's just scratching the surface of what he can do offensively and is already... One of the 10 best defensive players in the league and one of the three best rim protectors in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
At the rim, you can't score on him at the rim. And J-Dub, Mahoney nailed this today. And he and I talked about it on the pod. He wrote for the ringer today. The entire defensive scheme that they've played in this series and in other matchups hinges on Jalen Williams being able to guard guys who are bigger and stronger than he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Without that, without his ability to contain, shut down, limit Julius Randle, in this series, if he can't do that, you've got to move Chet somewhere else. Chet can't just be on Jada McDaniels roaming around protecting the rim. The whole concept falls away. Not the whole concept because you can then put Caruso on him, but then you've got to play Caruso more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
A lot of how they are constructed on defense falls apart without him and his ability to guard up a position. Yeah, they are... Look, I mean, it's no secret when they have an above average offensive game, it tends to look quite scary for the president and future of the league because the defense is going to be there pretty much every night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And, you know, I heard you and Ryan talking about the Pacers, their place in the East and Ryan saying, um, you know, I'll always bet on a team with a top 10 player in Indiana doesn't have a top 10 player. They might have a top 10 player. I mean, like Tyrese Halliburton is this good. I mean, this was, this was his masterpiece tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Well, in all those like DiVincenzo and Alexander Walker going crazy from three, like a lot of that stems from the attention that Ant is drawing. Not all of it. Like it's not, it's not all assists and hockey assists, but a lot of it, if you sort of dial it back and look at where it all originates from, a lot of it is just, there's like four dudes on Ant or looking at Ant or leaning toward Ant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And a lot of the conversation about Ant and like, well, you know, you just when you're the best guy, you just got to put your team on your back and get buckets analysis is just based on stuff that Michael Jordan did when the rules were completely different and you couldn't play zone defense. You couldn't tilt the floor the way defenses do now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, it's really hard to just get to the rim anytime you want. I think the difference that there was some of some of this today I saw. I think the interesting difference between Shea and Ant is how Ant's shot selection has trended in a dangerously hardening direction where it's just all rim, all threes. I'm not shooting any long twos. I'm not confident in the shot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I don't have the post game that I wanted to have yet. And Shea is obviously an elite mid range shooter, but like all else fails. You can just go one-on-one and Jack a 17 footer. And like, Ant doesn't want that shot anymore. He just, and like, it's partly because if you look at his numbers, he does not shoot them well. And in the playoffs, we've seen it. I'm not comparing him to Harden.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I mean, he's had other great games, not with stakes like this, not playing a style that the Knicks kind of, the Knicks kind of coaxed him to play the way they want him to play for a lot of this game, which is dribble a lot in the pick and roll penetrate a lot, but essentially play like, Chris Paul plays, but faster, you know, get guys on your hip, force you to dribble into the mid range.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
No one is going to have Harden's record in big games. And Ant certainly is not, but there is a certain of like, if it's just all rim, all three, it's, and you're the number one guy on a team, it's going to be really hard for you in some games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Well, and you think about all the teams Ant has faced in the playoffs. What did you say? He's 23. Whatever he is, he's very young. He's already faced the Nikola Jokic Nuggets twice. He's faced the Luka Mavericks. He's faced the Curry Warriors. He's facing this Thunder team. He's getting a lot of...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Lakers getting a lot of like big time experience against elite elite elite a plus teams under his belt and that's like pretty goddamn hard to like win the for him for his team to have won as many of those series as they have I think is like way ahead of schedule for most I couldn't agree more the reason I hated the I hated the Gobert trade I hated a bunch of things about it but the biggest reason I hated it was because the trade was made
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
It was a bet on him. It was a bet on him as much as it was on Gobert.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Is anyone in Minnesota, is this, is anyone in Minnesota, in Minnesota echoing any of this anxiety about Anthony Edwards? Like another team that's had nothing good happen to them for 20 years has been in the conference finals twice in a row. Like that seems pretty awesome. Seems like it's going great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
The stuff to Halliburton, if he had his druthers would not do. I'll bet you. I'm very interested to see if you track this game, if it's his season high for just dribbles past half court in a game and put up, What he put up tonight with no turnovers and a million assists and making shots of every variety, an absolute masterpiece.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, they got some questions. You know, everyone's got some questions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, that's what I mean. Everyone's got in the apron era. Everyone's got everyone's going to face these questions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I saw a graphic floating around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I think it's called an underscore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, as soon as the Celtics went away, they were the odds-on favorite to win the title.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I think they're going to pay the tax. I think there will be, you know, once you get into apron stuff, like every team, they will be cautious. But like, they're going to have to make decisions. Like every team is going to have to make these decisions. Is there a Dort have to go out here and a Hartenstein doesn't, you know, is not on the team in three years. It's like whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
They're going to have to pay the tax. They're going to pay the tax. They're not going to duck the tax. You can't be that team that good and duck the tax. You can't do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Topich? Yeah. So I tweeted that the other day and it wasn't, everyone was like, well, they also have seven first round picks in the next whatever years. I'm like, I know. I know all the picks they have. The picks are in my brain all the time. It's the actual human that they drafted in the lottery last year that I sometimes forget is just like floating around, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And just between Halliburton and the pace they played at in the first half where they just are flying after every make. And you look at the first action on these possessions after makes is like 21 on the shot clock. There's a handoff or a screen or something. It's just really hard to play against.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
thought it was a weird game especially people in my life are like yes i don't know about that game i was like that game was incredible what are you guys talking about the free throws is what just is what soured people um and i don't want to do the whole like what would you change the rule to fouling up three it's oh the stuff in the last minute yeah yeah but yeah it was a fun it was a really fun game you know um the whole game was really fun
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
So what would you do? I don't want to have that. I'm too tired to have that discussion now. 12-0-6. Is it 12-0-6?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Well, but like, you know what? I have a lot of counter arguments. It often doesn't work is one of the fun things about the fouling up three thing is it often comes back to bite you in the ass, which is a fun turnabout.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I love that they're going to the road games. I mean, they were in Detroit in the first round. I love it. If I had infinite wealth and access to private transportation and I had spare time, it's exactly what I would do as an NBA fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
So now what do we do? I bought a lot in the Strother Straits a couple years ago that I've just been sitting on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I mean, the Kaminga Keys, there's a lot of people there. There's like a good nightlife.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
We don't want everybody there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
You're holding, you're holding that one. Yeah. I'll tell you, that's a, that's a good, good, good properties. I like that. Bailey Shireman. I love that. I love that at the end of this podcast, Shireman is coming up. We're going to need him next year. We're going to need a lot of people next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Is this what it's like when you're like, I've like our season just over. I have, it's April and what am I supposed to do for the next two months?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Anything can happen. Anything can happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Uh, friends and neighbors, a plus a plus spouse neutral.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I'm up to date on what's public. Um, uh, studio. Yep. Finish that. Again, the Venn diagram of overlap between my wife and I is very narrow. Like it's no violence. Like I would do all kinds of violence. I'd do that on my own. Like Breaking Bad was a solo venture for me. That's like she has to go to bed and then you do Breaking Bad. The Wire was a solo pre-kid venture for me. Hacks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I'm a little lukewarm on the fourth season of Hacks. I loved seasons one through three. I don't quite know what's going on in this season, but it's earned the benefit of the doubt for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Some people are saying. It's on the streets. Just keep me posted. If I've seen the movie, I'm happy to do it. I can't believe you're not doing a whole Mission Impossible retrospective. I'm a huge MI fan. I love all the Mission Impossible movies. Love them. Love them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
So, so after three, which is Philip Seymour Hoffman is the best mission impossible villain universally agreed upon. And apparently I haven't seen a new one yet. Apparently is, is referenced that the plot of that is a major plot point of dead reckoning two or whatever this one is called. Um, After that, they all kind of blend into me until Dead Reckoning 1.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
So like Fallout, Rogue Nation, he's sliding down one building and jumping on another. They all kind of blend into me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
This is clearly how you want to go out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
he takes it very seriously i applaud the seriousness of which he takes his craft um i also like that he just knows he's he's like one of these like concert tour bands who know like takes it very seriously wants to play some songs that they love is like i gotta also play the hits i gotta also run like i gotta have a long shot of me running a long distance and just like i gotta do it that's all
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I'm ready. I'm ready to be called in to the rewatchables. All right. I'm going to have to get a list from you. Yeah, I'm ready to. I'm ready to be. I love the rewatchables when it's a movie I've seen recently. Yeah, I dive in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I was going to say, what would you peg the chances of a game seven in the New York-Indiana series happening?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Don't let us get six. It's the difference between having home court being down 3-1 and not having home court being down 3-1. I'm going to say like 30 to 35% chance there's a game seven. Really? They should be favored at home. They should be favored at home in game five, right? I'm going to give you all the odds right now. They are... I'm going to say minus one and a half. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And then for the series... And then you just got to hope that game six, you win game five, you got to hope game six, the nerves like, oh my God, we're on the verge of the finals. If we lose this game, we got to go on the road. You just got to hope. That's all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Like, do I have to pick a number? No, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
All right. So it doesn't just have to be Knicks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I don't want to go like Brunson or Halliburton. I think Miles Turner has, in whatever game the Pacers win to get to the finals, if they do, I think Miles Turner has a crowning Indiana Pacers moment. Like he makes six threes and scores 29 points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
As a basketball player, he is not discussed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
They almost have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Off the top of my head, there was a whole Gordon Hayward. There was a Gordon Hayward Celtics, like Gordon Hayward going to Indiana, Turner going to Boston thing that was pretty close.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Pelicans?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Pelicans looked at him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Pelicans looked at him for a high draft pick. I don't remember what year. And I don't know how close it got.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
You have to be. With that roster, you have to be ready for anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I agree. I don't know if Jalen Brown's going to be involved, but I'm ready for anything. I don't think they will trade Jalen Brown, just for the record. I would bet against it too, but it's going to be an interesting summer for your Boston Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Yeah, there are a lot of teams that like Drew Holiday, including some teams that have tried to trade for him before and were not able to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I would prefer, I would not want to be in the business of trading awesome basketball players who are still in their prime and do everything well. Just wouldn't want to be in that business on good contracts. Are you going to the game Thursday? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I have not got my official credential approval notice from the Madison Square Garden Company, but I suspect that that will come through day of game and I'm excited to be there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Hey, if OKC doesn't close out, that's good for the podcast. That'll be a surprising outcome. But I'm prepared with alternate content if necessary. Good idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
Always fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And that's why you have 10 guys play double digit minutes, even in not a, it's not a must win playoff game, but you don't want to go surrender home court and go back to New York to, to face it in that crowd. Because if you're going to play at that frenetic pace, you need a real deep team. And that's what the Pacers believe in. It's like Ben Matherin, you've sucked the entire series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
You're kind of like stick out on this team, like a sore thumb in terms of the style that you play with. We're going to throw you in the game for 12 minutes because sometimes you stick out like a sore thumb and sometimes you're kind of a curveball that we might need. And he comes up with 20 points. Yeah. And yeah, it's just 20 points that I'm not even positive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And look, I mean, like the Knicks were bad on defense in this game. We should not undersell that. Like the Pacers, I have praised the Pacers to every nth degree about how their style foists uncertainty and panic on defenses. Defenses make mistakes because just there's so much shit happening so fast. It's like that Halliburton three where Toppin just comes out of nowhere and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
kind of sprints in the direction of Halliburton to set a screen, doesn't get within five feet of him, sprints toward the rim. Brunson is on Halliburton. He's like, oh my God, someone's shooting toward the rim. And just all of a sudden, everyone walks away from Halliburton and he hits a three. But I thought that Nick's like, I think Josh Hart got back cut
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
five times in the game for baskets on out-of-bounds plays. The top and three that was the dagger in the game is just a miscommunication. Two guys chased one guy. Their out-of-bounds defense was bad. Their back cuts were, they got back cut all over the place. The Knicks will look at the film of this and be like, look, credit to the Pacers. They're an elite offensive team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
we could have just snuffed out 14 points with just nice standard defense. And like you said, they had it to six, 115-109. The Pacers were becoming a little slow and predictable by their standards. And by the way, the score of the game was 111-96 at one point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And an alarm went off in my brain that that was the same exact score it was in the fourth quarter of game one, except it was the Knicks that had won 11 to 96. And then Anunobi hits a crazy three. And I'm like, I don't know what's going on here, but I'm getting a little frightened by what the basketball guys are doing to us. But in the end, the Pacers got enough done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
I think you just nailed it. Something that was bugging me. I talked about it with Rob yesterday. The great Rob Mahoney of Prestige TV? Yeah, him. He took a break from watching whatever, I don't know what Prestige shows are on right now. I like that show. Great show. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
uh we talked about it in in sort of just focusing on towns and cat as this enigma who carries the knicks across the finish line in game three with a masterpiece fourth quarter where he's playing center the entire fourth quarter mitchell robinson has benched the entire fourth quarter because the knicks need points and they need to go five out on offense and all of a sudden it just feels like the knicks
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
much like the Timberwolves with Cat, kind of don't know who they are as a team anymore. Like, do we need to play big? Oh, wait, that's not working so well. Why did we start playing big in the first place? Was it just because of Mitchell Robinson's insane offensive rebounding? Or are there other reasons? You know what? That's not working. Like, we need Cat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
We need Cat to beat Miles Turner off the dribble in a five-out offense. And Cat was gritty and tough doing that again tonight. And it just then then they play these lineups like, you know, Shamit and Wright are suddenly in the rotation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
All of a sudden, they're playing this lineup that has no Brunson, no McBride, no Bridges, obviously no campaign like none of the point guards or in Bridges case, like, you know, sometimes if Brunson's on the bench point forward ish player when I don't know where Brooklyn McHale Bridges even is anymore. But when that player affects similarly emerges, none of those guys are on the floor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And it's like, boy, I guess credit to Pacers. They've rocked the Knicks into the ropes and the Knicks are like, I'm not really sure what the best version of ourselves is. And a lot of that is just Towns is a strange player where offensively he's best as a five. Defensively, those lineups just don't hold up unless you have the perfect ecosystem around him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe
And then you put him at the four and sometimes like, well, where is he at the four? It's Brunson, Mitchell Robinson, pick and rolls, Towns is over there. I think you nailed it by saying the Knicks suddenly feel, a little uncertain about who they are and how they want to play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
So I picked Nuggets in seven, which is your tell for don't feel great about it. Went home court advantage and best player in the world. And I listened to you and Ryan after game one. I felt exactly the same way you guys did that. The Nuggets kind of stole that game. And I would feel really good about the series if I were a Clippers fan. And then they won game two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Obviously, we're doing this right after that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
uh i would feel good if i were a clippers fan i'm gonna stand by my pick obviously because you know i don't repick repick series halfway through but um i think clippers have outplayed them and if they're gonna have we're gonna talk about kawaii and if they're gonna have one guy in each game and it was hardened in game one kawaii game two who's essentially like on par with yokich they're gonna win the series right they just need somebody to cancel him out numbers wise in some way um
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I still can't believe multiple front office people talked to me on the record for that piece about what was going on during the draft. What were they thinking? I'm like, well, maybe that's why. Maybe it was a newish... And they were like, oh, this will be fun. Let's do this interview and reveal what was going on for this crazy trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
That's what I'm saying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Take it wherever. It worked out well for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Did he make top 75? I think he did, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
So there's no question he would be one of the top. He might already be one of the top 50 players of all time. He's a two-time finals MVP. He's kind of like the... No, I said 15. Oh, 15.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
No question. Two-time finals MVP. Defensive player of the year. 50-40-85 in the playoffs. I did a little dig. I did some basketball reference sorting. I got some good stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
all-time two-way wing, most valuable position in the league, has multiple iconic playoff series, playoff moments, and one of the most iconic playoff shots in the history of basketball, the four-bouncer in Toronto against the Sixers. And, like, again... You never know, like, with these guys, like, all the time he's missed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
If he had played all that time, if he had played twice as many minutes or 1.5 times as many minutes, how does he look right now? Because right now he looks incredible and fresh and all that stuff. But, yeah, I mean, look, he hasn't finished the season healthy enough. since 2020, since the bubble. He has not finished his team season available to play since the Clippers flamed out in the bubble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And knock on wood, we're only two games into this and he's playing a ton of minutes and he played a ton of minutes at the end of the season. If he plays like this, like I think we just get, did you just give up on this? Like I just kind of get, like when they lost Paul George in free agency, I was just kind of like, he's going to miss half the season. It's going to be all dependent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I just didn't see the Clippers ever reaching this level again in this iteration of them, in part because I just kind of gave up on this. It just seemed like a pipe dream that we'd ever see this level Kawhi in the playoffs every game. And I really, you know how much I love Kawhi. I voted him MVP in the year Russ won the MVP when it was a super controversial vote.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I think I was one of eight guys to vote for him. I thought he was the best player in the league that year. And I just hope we get to see this because what he's doing and just eviscerating every defender that they threw at him last night, 15 of 19 for 39 points is ridiculous. And the last basket of the game. Yeah, it was to put them up by three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And a steal right after that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
We saw enough in the two and a half quarters of that game to be like, okay, he's going to give them a puncher's chance in all these games. They'll probably lose 4-2 or 4-1, but this isn't going to be like a walkover like everything else they had that year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Take me, that's your world.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I'm going to LA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
They won 50 something games the next year. They were one of the best story. I think, did Nick Nurse win coach of the year that year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
It's ridiculous to even suggest this, Bill. Nothing like that ever falls into the Lakers' laps. It doesn't happen. They don't just get stars that go to their team shockingly. It doesn't happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Seven against Dallas and four against Utah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Well, can we just stop for a second? Yeah. We shouldn't slow down on it. We should slow down on a couple of things. Yeah. The first one is the bubble and COVID. Because I picked the Clippers to win the championship that year. And we learned pretty quickly even during the bubble and then after that no team wanted to be there less than the Clippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And they just completely... I don't know that I've ever seen a team let go of the rope like that. Like they did against Denver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And 2021, he gets hurt against Utah. The series is 2-2 when he gets hurt and they end up winning the series. The end, essentially the end of the jazz of the Mitchell Gobert, you know, iteration. They had one more year after that, but everyone knew it was kind of over. We just like, I, that 45 point game six to save the Clippers season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And remember that series against Dallas, they get rolled the first two games in LA. They're down like a million points in game three in Dallas. And it just feels like it's over. They saved the season. They're still down three, two in game six. And he plays one of the best games I've ever seen anyone play. 18 of 25, 13 of 16 at the line, 45 points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
and the usual defense, and single-handedly wins the game and saves their season. Then he follows it up with a ho-hum 28-10-9 in Game 7. That's one of the best games that's up there with any game I've ever seen anybody play. I just wanted to say that. Slow down and say that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I'm glad you brought up Yao because I want to bring him up later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Ralph Sampson?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Well, there are some. It depends how how what if you want to, I mean, Len bias. Yeah. So I'm glad you brought up y'all because I just did, I just did to, to point to your point about how unique Kawhi's career is. I just did a search on best law reference people in the hall of fame. with player efficiency ratings for their career. PER, everyone craps on it now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
It's like a useful, like if I just need to catch all, like was this guy good, how was he, right? PER above 22 for their career. Kawhi's regular season is 23.2, I think. Because I wanted to see how many guys, Hall of Fame, that elite level, and how many played fewer than Kawhi minutes-wise. I think Kawhi's are about 23,000 career regular season minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
There's only three guys in the Hall of Fame that meet that PER standard and played fewer minutes than Kawhi. One is George Mikan. Okay, like original NBA dinosaur, but innovator, ABA commissioner, all that. One is Neil Johnston, 50s Philadelphia Warriors player. Probably made your book of basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And the third is Yao Ming. And so that was a name that I thought of right away. Even before I did that search, he only played 15,818 career minutes. But obviously, unlike Yao, Kawhi is a multi-time champion, multi-time finals MVP. There's just there's and then you go right. And then there's a Neil Johnson played 18,300 minutes. And then there's a 10,000 minute jump to the next guy on this list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And it's Dr. J, who obviously played in the ABA, too. So he's got other. Yeah, like there's just there's a 10,000 minute gap between those two guys. And Kawhi is right in the middle of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Wait, is that the one that cuts off Karl Malone?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Poor guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
No, don't be sorry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Well, I remember after the first Spurs heat final that the Spurs lose the Ray Allen game and all that. He had moments in that series. I don't have his game log up in front of me now, but he had moments in that series where it was like, ooh, something's interesting is happening with this Kawhi. He's guarding LeBron. Okay, fine. He's a great defensive player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Actually, let me bring up his game log as I'm talking, but he's guarding LeBron. he's guarding lebron comfortably by the way yeah and lebron respects him already and now he has games i'm looking at here the here's his last three games of the of uh those 2013 13 or 14 13 the one they lose um to to miami 16 points on six of eight shooting 22 points and 11 rebounds on nine to 14 shooting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Game seven, 19, you know, he misses a big free throw in game six, obviously, people remember that. 19 and 16 on eight of 17 in game seven, 45 minutes, 46 minutes a game before. He has double digit rebounds in five of the seven games. And I remember before the next season, I wrote a piece about, for Grantland, this guy is the biggest X factor in the league this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And it was like the only time I think I ever got a one-on-one interview with Kawhi. I called the Spurs. I was like, hey, I'm writing all about this kid. He was a kid back then, whatever. And I remember their PR guy, Tom James, was like... This will be your one for the year. Don't call and ask for pop. He was being polite about it, but you know how the Spurs are. You're not getting popped.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
This will be the one, but I think it's a good idea. You should do it. And then he ends up winning finals MVP, making me look really, really smart. But you could see enough in that first finals where it was like, okay, something different is going on. Something more is here. But again, to be an MVP candidate and a guy who... You know, we'll go through his playoff numbers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
But even then, even in the 2014 finals, I don't think you could see that coming. He was kind of like MVP by you had to pick a spur. And he was nobody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Could have been like Evan Mobley or Cade Cunningham before this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
But maybe not even quite that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Are you talking about athleticism?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
for defense, I'd have, I'd have to sit and think about it for a second, but I mean, you know, Gary Payton wasn't big enough to, to be in this conversation, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I'll give you this one too. Um, I sound like an old man. It's not that long ago, but he's still a very good defender now. If he were healthy and played the whole year, he'd be in the all-defense conversation. He's still that good. peak Kawhi, like 2016 to 18, 19 defensive player of the year candidate Kawhi was legitimately terrifying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Kawhi against Memphis in 2017 in the first round. Like a ho-hum Memphis team. The Spurs should have won that series. He was incredible in that series and did everything for that team. People can go back and look it up. Remember the Ben McLemore thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I think he ruined Ben McLemore's career because Ben McLemore tried to dribble within a 10-foot radius of Kawhi and Kawhi just took the ball out of his hands two possessions in a row and went and dunked on the other end. I wanted to write a story about that. I approached Ben McLemore's people once and I was like, can I write this story?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And they're like, eh, I don't think he wants to talk about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
But he ended up writing something different about him. He was a very sweet guy and had an interesting arc to his career. But like, peak Kawhi, if you were not like an A-level dribbler, you could not dribble anywhere near him. He would just take the ball from you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
You could see the moment when he would decide, actually, I think I can just get the ball. You're dribbling it like everything's normal. How about I just take it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
It's actually kind of amazing and speaks to how great he was during that five or six year stretch that he's a six-time All-Star because it doesn't feel like he's been healthy enough in his prime to be a six-time All-Star. It's just when he's minimally healthy, it's so obvious that he's one of the five to eight best players in the league that he just makes the All-Star team every year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
The Durant one is interesting. Durant's got the height and the quick twitch shooting from any range ability.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
the bulk and defense and just you can't move him at all that Kawhi brings both of them are their assist numbers Durant's probably a little higher but broadly similar in that they're not a primary creator they're more a secondary creator it's I mean it's an interesting they're in the four assist range it's an interesting it's an interesting one well one other thing with both of them there was a little bit of a Swiss Army knife with each where I felt like you could play Kawhi at either forward spot and get away with it right you could play Durant
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
These are great names. Can I just read you another list of things I got from Best Ball Reference? Do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I just did... Playoffs. These are playoff numbers. Again, PER is not a perfect stat. Good catch-all. Kawhi's career playoff PER is 24.3. It's higher than his regular season. Wow. That alone is an accomplishment, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
If you can maintain your efficiency stat, if you're an elite player and you can just maintain your regular season efficiency into the better competition of the playoffs, that alone is an accomplishment. To go up a mini level is a big, big deal. So I did above... 24 PER, at least 4,000 minutes in the playoffs. Kawhi's at 5,009, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
So you got to have been there a decent amount of time and you maintain a 24 efficiency, 24 PER. Eight guys total have ever done it. And I'll go in order of their player efficiency ratings. Number one, Michael Jordan, 28.6. Number two, LeBron James, 27.9. Number three, Shaq, 26.1.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Number four, I still think for my money, maybe the most criminally underrated player in the history of the NBA, Akeem Olajuwon, 25.7.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Number five is a tie at 24.3. And it's just too good that it's a tie. Tim Duncan and Kawhi Leonard. Wow. And then right below them at 24.2 is Barkley. who has the fewest playoff minutes of this group. And right below Barkley is Durant at 24 flat. And that's it. That's the whole list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I'll look up his playoff PR. I mean, I know I should have anticipated your level of concern.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Tough. But he's got a 26, a 24. I mean, it's different. PR is different.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Per game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Hold on. 30 and six in at least 20 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
You're making the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I mean, when you said top 15 earlier in the podcast, I mean, again, you're getting into sacred territory there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Yeah, you're right around Dirk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
It's pretty sacred territory, and now that we're going through these lists, I can't argue against it. The what-if is that severe, and the what-if ceiling is that high.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
You know who's not criminally underrating Hakeem from 1995? David Robinson. Or Shaquille O'Neal. Or Shaq, that's right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
That's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a nice one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
It's Tim Duncan 2.0. It's incredible the symmetry of those two guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
So a bunch of Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Even, even as you're watching the Clippers finish at whatever, 16 and four, whatever. They've had an incredible last 35 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And he looks incredible. And you are saying out loud what is completely reasonable, which is that, in your opinion, this is the second best team in the Western Conference. And I'm watching it. And I'm like, yeah, that makes total sense. And my brain just can't even, it still puts them over here in like a separate category of the standings. just because I just never believed we would see it again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I just, I wouldn't allow myself to. And again, he hasn't finished a season since 2020, but I'm glad he brought it back to this year because I think this is the coolest thing happening in basketball right now. Um, I, I don't know how far this team can get if he stays healthy and plays like this, but it's minimal conference finals. I think they could be, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I don't want to put a ceiling on it. Thunder are going to be favored against anybody. Um, Well, I guess not minimal conference finals because they're in the Thunders bracket. So we'll see where they can go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I liked Russillo's idea that if you lose by 50 or more in game one, it counts as two wins for the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
But I will say, not only is this about Kawhi, I think I think the Clippers are the team of the year, the franchise of the year almost in the NBA. I mean, the Thunder are the obvious choice because they won 68 games and they're just incredibly well set up for now and tomorrow to a level that no team has ever been. But for the Clippers to win 50 games and be looking like this in the postseason...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
After they lost Paul George and everyone, including me, just wrote this entire era off is now we're just killing time until we pivot into a rebuild and we get our picks back. It'll be cool.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And the front office was like, actually, I think we signed some pretty good role players in free agency. And we have a lot of faith in Zubats to make another level. And if Kawhi ever can play and we're doing our best, we feel like we're still like a pretty. And they didn't. I don't even think they expected.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I think they thought we could be like a cool 46 win, tough as nails, defensive oriented team. And for them to be this is incredible. It's an incredible job by the coaching staff, Ty Lue, Jeff Van Gundy, the whole staff. I think they're like the franchise of the year in the NBA, maybe second to the Thunder, I guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
You can't undersell what an incredible accomplishment it is for them to be a 50-win team and going toe-to-toe with the best player in the world in a playoff series in the middle to upper half of the Western Conference bracket. It's ridiculous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
That's it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Concerning first couple of games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Can I give you a third? identity teams Pacers Pacers have an identity
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
That's why he's always been an elite postseason player, among many other things, is that there is some truth to the idea that in the playoffs— you need a little bit more than in the regular season, at least.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Guys who can get those shots. And he can get, like the last shot he made last night to put the Clippers up, 105, 102, I think it was. Yeah, it was the last shot of the game. The last basket of the game. They ran a pick and roll to try and get Jamal Murray switched onto him. And for maybe the first time in the entire game, the Nuggets decided, we're not giving you this switch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
We're going to hedge with Jamal Murray. risk leaving the screener, who I think was Norm Powell, open and figure that part out. We're just not taking Aaron Gordon off you. And he was like, cool. Aaron Gordon is a tank. I'm totally cool with this. I'm still going to get to my spot. And he made that jumper from the right wing over Aaron Gordon, and it was vintage Kawhi.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
The height, the trajectory, the ease with which he got there against a defender who's one of the only guys in the league who can match his size, strength, and athleticism. And it was just like walking the freaking park.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And he's getting frustrated too. Yeah. He's getting frustrated with the officials. He's... been pretty demonstrative, not in a bad way, but with teammates trying to point them in the right direction. Seven turnovers, missed some big free throws in both games, including two late in game one, only six of 10 from the line yesterday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I'd be worn down carrying it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
It's funny you say that because in my notes I was taking on the game. I can't remember when it was in the game. But I'm paying very close attention to every Murray, Jokic pick and roll, how the Nuggets decide to guard it. Different ways, different... Their default strategy has been X, Y, and Z. And there were two in a row, I think in the third quarter maybe, where...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
They didn't need to do anything dramatic. They didn't even need to do their sort of usual response to it so far in this series. Because Jokic didn't pop to three, which is dangerous for them. And he didn't roll into floater area for like a pocket pass from Murray, which is a danger area for them. So Zubac just kind of saw, he just sort of stood there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
at the point of the screen, like 19 feet from the basket. And Zubats was like, oh, cool, I can just sort of drop back and play this like a normal pick and roll. And the worst case scenario is he gets a 20-foot jump shot. This is a nice reprieve. And I just took note of those because I was like, you don't see him do that very, very often. And I said in my notes, like, maybe he's tired.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
He should be. He's playing 40 gazillion minutes every night on a team that needs him to do literally everything on offense for them to survive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
But I'm glad we captured this moment because... Can I just add one more Kawhi thing that is too irresistible given that this is a podcast with you? I think about Kawhi 100 nights a year, 50 nights a year for this reason and this reason only. I don't even know if you remember this. After the 2017 season, when Russ wins the MVP and averages a triple-double, you voted for Harden, I believe, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
That was one where I just felt it in my gut. But anyway, so you voted for Hardin, and you're so proud of the vote that I believe you had them made. You or someone at Grantland had these shirts made. I should have brought it, but it looks disgusting now. It's a white t-shirt, and it says, 2017 MVP, right side of history.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
And it has a photo of Russ and a photo of Harden and a check mark in a box next to Harden. And now that's been, that's in my pajama rotations. It's one of my pajama shirts. So I look at it and it makes me smile, but it also pisses me off because I have the wrong vote for me on the shirt. I need a Kawhi version of, I look at the shirt, Kawhi's not on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
It's the right side of history is James Harden. They're like, well, that's not my side of history, but I wear it anyway as pajamas. So I think about the 2017 MVP and, like a third of the year because it's pajamas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Probably. I think so. I'd have to go look it up. I probably did. Yeah. That was the year like LeBron was fourth and you just felt like this is insane or that, you know, this is the way this is breaking. How? Why? But that's how it broke.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
You know, Cleveland... LeBron spent six straight weeks pouting and giving everyone side eyes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Because he hated his team and was like, I need you to trade all these people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Thursday, we're going to recap everything that happens Wednesday and Tuesday, depending on which series we have time to talk about, and look ahead to Games 3s and Games 4s. I think that's coming right off a Warriors-Rockets Game 2, and it's coming right off Lakers-Wolves. We'll have a couple extra days of rest, so we'll see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
If the Lakers are down 0-2, it's going to be DEFCON 1 across the airwaves, baby. Let's go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
I'm going to keep the stock because I'm going down with the ship. I still... Tim Legler and I used to joke that we needed t-shirts made that we could wear on television. And the t-shirts would have just said, John, I think Kaminga is good. Because we were both... We both would just be like, I don't understand. We think this guy's good. Warriors fans, it's incredibly polarizing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Some of them just think he stinks. I still think he's interesting and good. But I... You know, if they're not dusting them off now and they're winning games, I kind of think the ship has sailed. But you never know in the playoff, the longer you stay in the playoffs, if they get through this series, you know, the matchups change, someone gets hurt, you never know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
But I don't even think about him anymore, sadly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
Thanks for having me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager
100%.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And he's such a legend there, and deservedly so. People just screaming Nas Reid in the streets and holding the Nas Reid towels. I hope he stays there forever. But look, I think Minnesota will work their way into this series, but this game was... Not the start you were hoping for. Could you come out of this like, oh, geez, man, this is going to be tough to score enough against these guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
I you know, you do have to remind yourself all the time. Don't overreact to game one, even if it even and maybe especially if it confirms to your expectations about how the series would go, because then your tendency is to really overreact to it. Roadmap number one is hit four more threes if you're going to take 50. And that that does a lot of the work for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Yeah, I'll continue to say this. Like if they lose the turnover, if they lose the live ball turnover battle like that, because Oklahoma City had 12 turnovers, only five of those were steals. So that's what I say, 13 steals to five steals. If they lose that battle that badly and they don't win the free throw battle by a significant margin, they're just not going to win games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
There's just no math that's going to help them win games. But step one is the threes. The ant thing. What grade would you give Ant this game? He does have games like this where he has moments.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Wow. For him. Not D plus across the board. For him. What do you want more of? What did you see that concerned you? Swagger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
I always tell people, I said it about the Celtics after game one and game two against the Knicks. Hang the shock quality championship banner. Congratulations, you had better shock quality. You're down 2-0 in the series. You get nothing for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Who else is in the, does it have to be a bench guy? Like is Josh Hart in the conversation? Is Andrew Nemhart in the conversation? Those guys are, are other leaders.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
He's... Aaron Gordon too good for that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
I think the Nuggets movie poster is just Jokic sitting on the bench looking sad as the lead is like frittered away. They always cut to him. It was the... First it was the Nico Harrison in the crowd cut when anything bad would happen and then it became the Jokic on the bench.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Yeah. Yeah. So the simplest explanation for why Oklahoma City is very difficult to play against is if you're Ant and you have the ball at the top of the arc, What direction are you going against this defense? There's no easy mark to go at. I thought at the beginning of the game, he was starting to get traction in the Gobert pick and roll.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Not softest part of the defense, but I can always get a big guy get Hartenstein up the floor and maybe I can get around him or there's a pocket pass to Gobert or something. And then Gobert only ends up playing 20 minutes. They play Chet at center quite a bit. When Isaiah Joe was on the floor, Ant really wanted to go at him and they couldn't get that switch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
The Thunder were really good at hedging, recovering, and you take that out of it and it's like, I don't know... where to go and you could try Shea, but Ant has not really developed like the sort of back to the basket bully ball game that I think he'd like. I mean, he and I talked about it three, four years ago in a phone interview. He would like to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And it just hasn't, it's just a, there's just not a lot of places to pick at. Whereas I thought the Thunder gradually were like, Shea was like, okay, particularly when go bears off the floor, I can get someplace against Randall. I can attack Nas Reed's feet in the pick and roll. Like I got played. It's not great. Like this is a really good defensive team too, but I got things I can do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And, and is still figuring out kind of where he wants to poke at. And I think he's going to have a game where he finds the right, the right places and stuff starts to open up for him. Maybe part of it is like, like he likes to go one-on-one. He's an incredible one-on-one player and he can beat almost anybody one-on-one. And he had a couple of those in this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
But again, it's like if it's case and Wallace or somebody like that, like that's no picnic and they're going to pick you a lot of the time too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
There was a play in the second half where I don't remember exactly. It was an ant pick and roll, maybe with Gobert. And he got case and Wallace on his hip and got him trapped kind of behind him and then snaked it. So he changed directions and it looked like he was going to have a driving lane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
to the right and that if Gobert was the screener, let's just say Gobert was going to seal off everyone on the other side of the floor. And Caruso just ran in from the right corner off Alexander Walker. And Ant was like, oh my God, okay, I'll kick the ball to Alexander Walker. And in real time, I thought they had switched.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And then I rewatched it and it was like, no, Caruso just ran all the way back to Alexander Walker, contested the three. So Alexander Walker had to pump. put the ball on the floor for one dribble, rise up for a three. And then here comes case and Wallace coming at me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And it was like a decent three, but it's an example of, and just couldn't get a, like an easy feel for there's a clear path to the rim and I'm taking it. And then they're just flying at you and making you take like some decent threes, some bad threes. So there's a great, I mean, look, it's not breaking news. They're an awesome defensive team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
I mean... You cautioned me to not, you know, we already talked about Nas Reed's free agency. And then you're like, oh, we're talking about OKC has already won the title.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Well, even as limited as that team was when they when they beat Denver. And it's always hard to go through a proven champion with the best player. When they beat Denver, they were very clearly the betting, the solid favorite to win the championship. Tonight only reinforced that. But there are still seven wins to go and three tough teams and a lot of randomness, health stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Who knows what could pop up? But yeah, I mean, I picked them to make the finals this year. I thought I picked Boston over Oklahoma City. So I'm not surprised. And it doesn't feel premature to me, in part because, you know, they had... People kind of... Like like sometimes talk as if last season's playoff run was so crushingly disappointing and so short.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
That was a real like the New Orleans series in the first round was a walkover. But Dallas was a team that ended up making the finals with two generationally elite ball handlers and a lot of sides and a lot of problems. And like they had to problem solve at a high level. They failed. They lost the series, but it was a very close series. Easily could have gone seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Easily could have gone the other way. That was real playoff experience. And then they completely... The Hartenstein-Caruso double dip completely changes their team in a lot of different ways. And they're ready for this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
I mean, if that's all, well, it's all going to be, I mean, he'll know if he, if he opts out, he'll know he's opting out for something better than opting in. I don't want to, I still want to talk about Minnesota counters and what else they can do. I don't want to be, I don't want to go this far.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Uh, offensive rebounding. There was a moment where it felt like, oh, they're going to be able to kind of bully this team on the glass, and then it faded away. I think we got to see more of that. I was surprised... I think they only played one possession of zone in the whole game. And it felt like it was more to protect Jaden McDaniels or maybe Jaden McDaniels got taken out right before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I thought that was going to be something they went to a little bit more, particularly after watching Denver kind of trouble them a little bit with the zone. I wonder if they're just like, we don't want to play that card right away in game one. We want to see what our man to man defense can do. Um, you know, there's a couple, a couple of things. They go bear, go bear two points, three rebounds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's just, it's just gotta be like 12 points, 14 rebounds. Eight of those rebounds are offensive rebounds. Like if he's going to play and they're going to win, it's gotta be something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Do you think Minnesota's, like the guys on the bench, have had training sessions about, OK, guys, when Rudy starts to do that, you can't start laughing. You can't hide. You've got to just stare straight ahead.
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Just more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
I mean, I thought Thunder in six, so I don't think it's all going to be enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know where they're coming from now. Five just feels, for a team that is, what, eight and two in the playoffs coming into this and made the conference finals last year, five just feels like they've earned a little bit more respect than that. And seven felt too much. Seven felt like that's too many. I'm going six.
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Yeah. 62. 23. Oh my God. Yeah. That's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Should we pitch a documentary on... the kind of post-Kobe, pre-LeBron Lakers, all of whom become like characters around like Randall, D'Lo, Josh Hart's flying around. Don't forget Brooke Lopez. Well, I'm talking about like the young guys, Brandon Ingram, Jordan Clarkson. There's like a Nick Young, D'Angelo Russell subplot in there. Iggy Azalea is involved, if I said her name right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So you're saying the year before. for Larry Nance jr. Just like the, the youth movement that LeBron kind of came in and was like, yeah, I'm publicly like, yeah, I'm curious. Like these guys are all interesting. And then it was like, can we just trade all of them immediately? Like one, but Kuzma Kuzma is another one. They're all like these characters scattered across the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Now Lakers fans were so excited about that team. Luke Walton was the coach. And there was a moment, there were moments where it was like, Maybe this could be a team. Like maybe this could grow into something like a, like not a great team, but like a 49 win team one year or something fun and homegrown. And now they're just like a bomb went off and they're just scattered everywhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I didn't like it for the Bulls as much as you did, but I also thought the Bulls got too much flack for that trade. But Caruso is doing this on the highest level of professional basketball for the bulls to end up in three years saying, Hey, that trade worked out just as well for us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Giddy is going to have to do some of this stuff on like a really high level of basketball and not like, it's cool that you average 28 and eight in March and April when half the East is tanking. And like, that's cool. I'm not saying it's meaningless. Like he shot the three well this year, but it's got to happen with some real stakes at some point. Yeah, I agree with that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And in the East, hey, Bill, like apologies to what, you know, the Boston thing, the Milwaukee thing. Hey, it could be next year. Bulls could be four or five series next year. You know, who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, my first take was the same one that Bobby Marks had, which was I'm pretty sure like this is way more complicated than that. It was a theoretical. And then my second trade was I think Cleveland would just reflexively recoil from it because Mobley is seven years or eight years younger or whatever it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And and then my third thought was, should they should they just reflexively recoil? Like what is Mobley's? And I love Mobley. You and you and I both are super high on Mobley. It's probably going to make second team all NBA and kind of deservedly, I think. And defensive player of the year. Yeah. I just I just but Giannis is Giannis and Mitchell, Mitchell, Garland, Giannis.
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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
makes more sense than Shen Goon, Thompson, Giannis, or like, like, but, but I just think in the end, I'm a little bit more risk averse trading young for aging. Um, it's the same reason I never got so excited about Durant coming to Boston. Um, and, But I think I think you if their instinct and I believe that it probably would be is to just like recoil in horror at the idea of trading of Immobile.
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I think they need to at least sort of tamp that down and really think it through. And what does it look like and what what is the cost at least?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I feel like you're trying to bait me into... I'm not trying to bait you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't think... I mean, I don't... He's right about the window and what Nico Harrison has publicly said about the window, which is why you aim at Giannis and not... Kevin Durant. I think if you're going to, if you're going to do that and I don't think they should do it either way.
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I've watched my, I've done my YouTube and I've watched a couple of Duke games since they got far in the tournament. I enjoyed, I enjoyed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I enjoyed Duke's final four collapse against, who did they, who did they collapse against?
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Houston. Great, great time. Great time. Yeah. For any red blooded American.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You have Pacers in four, I assume?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think it goes at least six. Well, any other pick than that, or I guess Pacers in seven if he's going to win on the road. Any pick feels too short. That feels like it should be just an awesome. So I'm going to game one tomorrow at the garden. I can't wait. You're going, I just want to soak it in. I just want to, I just want to feel it and hear it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, I'll get there if it's an eight o'clock tip. I, I, I think they'll let us in at five 30. Um, so I'll get there at five 20.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, like, look, the Knicks fandom is awesome. And I'm like, go off. It's been 25 years. You want to flood the streets. It's my favorite city in the world. I lived there for 18 years. You want to go crazy. But like someone tweeted today, like, I don't know where the line is on this kind of stuff. The line is like throwing stuff at people and shoving them and punching them. It's pretty easy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You can shout anything you want. Yeah. The stuff they did to the Pacers fan that Halliburton is flying out to Indiana, it's like, that's a pretty clear line. Taunt, talk your shit, but don't hit people or throw stuff at them. We know where the lines are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, I've, I've always been higher on this Knicks team and even last season's Knicks team, I said was the biggest threat to the Celtics in the East. Even if Philly were healthy, even if Milwaukee had been healthy, I would have thought that, um, I just thought Boston was a terrible matchup for them. And I was shocked at how...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think you put Tibbs on the hot seat before the playoffs, and I understood why you did it. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the job he's done this year on both ends of the floor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And that series against Boston and the way that they stretched their scheme and their style into places that were not really familiar for them and part of their A game, I think it was an awesome performance top to bottom. But I was shocked how easily they solved their Boston problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That was all gravy, though, wasn't it, for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That was back-to-back days with the Rockets missing 27 in a row.
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Explainable though, right? Explainable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They were comparable to games one and two against New York this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, Bridges has has become the player that they traded for in terms of just what he's doing. McBride started making shots. And Robinson being this healthy, mobile monster completely changes their team for 15 to 20 minutes a game. Those three variables alone are a big, big deal. The other stuff is pretty consistent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's only gotten worse for Time Lord and the Blazers. Which is how those things typically go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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One of my plans for my Thursday episode is... I'm having another guest on. We're each going to pick our three. Have we discussed this team enough offseason teams?
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No, no, but I want to pick a team now. I mean, I don't want to pick an obvious one like Milwaukee or even Memphis we've talked about a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I've got my eyes on... Atlanta and Sacramento. They just feel like teams that are just sizzling with... we both kind of like parts of where we're headed and especially Atlanta, but also we just like, we just fired our, like the Hawks just fired their GM Landry Fields and Sacramento had this turnover. The DeRozan thing. I just, both of them feel just like ripe for why, wait, why'd they do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Okay. Maybe. I don't know. Those are just two. You got, you got one on the brain. Give me, I know you got one on the brain. So let me, let me hear yours.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I didn't hate it. I mean, I think if you're the Bucs, it's got to be, well, what else is there for us other than Jalen Johnson, who I love and I believe is from Wisconsin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So what's the way more? Because they owe some picks. They have the Lakers pick and they have an extra pick from, it's like the second best of New Orleans and Milwaukee in their own pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, the next three drafts, this one and the next two are controlled by the Spurs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That feels like the rubber meets the road piece in that discussion. You've been getting a little bit off the ground is Risa Shea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think Milwaukee has to sit down and think about it. And that's an offer that teams can beat, but it's an offer that's like, you got to beat. It's not, it's not a nothing offer for sure. I love Jalen Johnson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'll tell you what mitigates against that, though, is how fucking bad the East is. It's really easy to talk yourself into a world where Atlanta just stands pat, re-signs Levert, does nothing all that interesting, and is like, why can't we go 52 and 30 next year and be the third seed in the East and still have some stuff to do?
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to not do it, to do... Maybe we keep Giannis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, the difference is Giannis has tasted the championship and understands that the window is shrinking. The time window is shrinking. And Trey has and the Hawks have tasted the conference finals. And everyone kind of, you know, wrote that one off. And then there's just been swimming in the play and just playing, playing. They should name the play in after the Hawks at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Hawks in the heat. It's like a guaranteed play in game every year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Exactly. At least the Hawks one, at least you can say, well, he's going to another, whatever you want to call Trey, perennial all-star, semi-perennial all-star, couple-time all-star. And like, he fits well with Giannis. Hero's like a one-time all-star and everyone is like, really?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Nothing, nothing, nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Swimming, we kicked butt. The coach is pretty awesome. Other sports, I don't know. I don't follow. I'm glad this one seems so good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Always fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Well, first of all, The Wolves are ahead by four points halfway through the third quarter. Mike Conley had a little flurry. A little flurry. Mike Conley hit a three. It was 60-56 with 7.22 left. But look, I said this before the series. I picked Thunder in six. Don't feel any better. I guess I have to feel slightly better about that pick, but... The bottom line is this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The most consistent unit, let's call it, left in the playoffs is Oklahoma City's defense. Every single night, they're going to be an absolute bear to score on them. No one has really found an answer at any point of the season. Denver did pretty well against them in the regular season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Spoiler alert, that did not last into the playoffs, even with the best player in the world trying every trick he has. And they just reach a frenzy. And, you know, like Julius Randall posting up, it's just like, watch out. Like, where is it? Where's the help? Is there any help coming from? Is Lou Dort going to pull the chair? Where are the arms? There are just arms everywhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And, you know, look, 17 turnovers doesn't sound that bad for Minnesota. I mean, it's not great, but it doesn't sound that bad. 13 of those were steals. And that plus a free throw margin that is even and or slightly an edge to Oklahoma City is just the Wolves are dead on arrival against this defense if those stats trend that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He was plus 19 in nine minutes. Made every shot that he took. Unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, Caruso's making threes, guarding Randall as I think everyone was reminded that, oh yeah, he's going to guard Randall when he guarded Jokic at the end of the series. And Ken Rich Williams, he's like a beloved guy there. For years, they've been saying he's going to be Nick Collison 2.0 for us. He's just going to be a lifer here. We love him. He's about all the right things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Hadn't really done much in the playoffs, in the real playoffs. I'm not going to count the Memphis series. It's a cool moment. He may not do much from here on out, but that was a big stretch of basketball for him. It was a cool moment. It was. He had a big three, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, they have a couple every game where it's just, oh, the guy just either fell over along the sideline under pressure bringing the ball up or dribbled the ball off his foot. Or I don't quite know what happened. I have to watch the replay to see what went haywire here. But you mentioned different looks and...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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you know, I was talking about this before the series we saw, I said, it's going to be a safer series to play Chet as the only big guy on the floor. They were afraid to do it against Denver very much. And they did it a lot today. Hartenstein only played 20 minutes and Chet was awesome. I mean, it doesn't jump off the stat sheet, you know, 15, seven, three,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just thought he made the kind of plays he needs to make on offense for them to win the championship, for them to win 16 playoff games. He's going to have to hit some threes. He had just won, but he was one of one. Some tough twos, some good takes around the basket. They have him guarding either McDaniels or a little bit Gobert, never Julius Randle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
They're like, we're just keeping you away from that matchup. He's going to bulldoze you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We're going to make you... We're going to preserve you as a help defender. And he's just everywhere. Like, there was that one play where he switched on to DiVincenzo in the right corner because the Wolves kind of moved around their offense a little bit. And DiVincenzo's like, cool, I'll just drive baseline and see what happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And what happens is Chet's like, you're just going to eat the basketball for dinner. How's that feel? He was... he was awesome. And then we saw them close the game. I mean, the game was already kind of closed, but with no bigs on the floor, they went to their sort of all wing, all guards, switch everything. Good luck figuring this thing out, line up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And, you know, they have a little bit more lineup flexibility, I think in this series than they did against Denver. And look, Minnesota had 88 points, 88 points. And I think we, I guess we got to talk about the threes, right? 15 to 51.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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hard to win in the NBA in 2025 when the other team takes 30 more threes than you, and yet they won running away. And the tracking data nerds are already flagging it. They're already awaiting the second spectrum data tomorrow. Did Minnesota underperform their expected shot variation? Was this just a shot luck game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And I'll be interested to see what that data actually says because they missed some good ones. But man, First of all, no defense is better at helping, making you think you're open and then flying back at you while another guy stunts at you. So at least there's like stuff happening in your line of sight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And by the way, the guy flying at me has gigantic arms and he's really fast and he's like 23 years old and at the peak of his athleticism. and a lot of them watching in real time and we're doing this right after the game, I haven't gone back and rewatched them yet. They felt like long threes and a lot like early in the shot clock threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
And even the ones that are decent and 29 feet early in the shot clock are long and have the feel of like, well, I better shoot this one now. Cause it's pretty good. And we, we ain't getting anything better than this. I'm letting it fly. And, you know, I thought for the most part, a lot of those threes were like decently contested and, and,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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For a lot of this game, it was Minnesota missing tough threes and Oklahoma City missing tough twos. And I think what should scare Minnesota a little bit is Oklahoma City started getting easier twos and making more of the twos as the game went on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh, they were furious the whole game. I mean, they were furious going into the game, which is always kind of a bad sign. If you're already on edge about it, it feels like you just got to chill out a little bit, accept that it's going to be bad. But yeah, I'm sure some clips will be sent to the league office between games one and two. Deservedly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
Five of 28 on threes combined for those three guys. First of all, 28 threes for three bench guys. That's almost an accomplishment in and of itself. Like you're almost having three bench guys take 10 threes of these.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
I thought, I thought Missoula would be like in, in like the jungles of the Amazon by now. He probably is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
You know, you said that about Nas Reed and it seemed like a little unfair to me because I, in my head, I mean, it's like been a while since the wolves played in my head. I'm like, he's had some pretty good games. I'm looking back last three games against golden state, all single digits. First two, we had 30 combined and then two single digit games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson
against the lakers a really good game one which maybe is the one that's sticking in my head but since then very quiet very quiet and win or lose this series and whatever obviously minnesota and their new ownership is going to have some big financial decisions to make and he's a big one i didn't realize we're going there already no we're not we're not i'm just saying you brought it up free agents but there's also no cap space
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I don't think they would switch if they were on Hart. So I thought he kept him on Cat a little too long. By the way, Josh Hart footnote from Detroit game six, just footnote, forgotten footnote. Second quarter of that game, Nick's Pistons are on a run. Knicks are walking up the floor. They're clearly calling a timeout. Like Josh Hart has been instructed to call a timeout.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Tibbs is complaining on the bench about whatever. And Josh Hart sees everybody stop playing and just aborts the plan, drives into traffic, draws a foul. Two free points that the Knicks would otherwise not have gotten in a game they won by a Brunson shot at the end of the game. I texted Josh Hart after the game and I was like, dude, did you do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I was like, did you do the fake timeout and steal two points in a game you guys won by three? And he texted somebody back like, yeah, LOL, I was about to call timeout, but I saw nobody was playing. That's a Josh Hart play. That's like a heady, and it mattered. They won the game by three points. I don't know if anyone even took note of it during the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I mean, you know, Hauser's injury leaves you one perimeter guy short. So you're really stretching all the guys you have left to play that lineup. But I don't think that's a bad... I don't think that's a bad lineup. By the way, you said Tatum looked fine. He did look fine. 7 of 23, 4 of 15 from 3. It just has to make more... It was bad. More shots.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Yeah. Again, the only thing that was different about this Knicks-Celtics game for a half than the other four they've played is that the Knicks switched with Towns so often. And I get why. They're trying to be the magic. They're trying to do what the magic did to depress the Celtics three-point volume. Spoiler alert, they did not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And the risk of it was made very clear right away is Towns getting in foul trouble. And he got in foul trouble. And to his credit, he stayed out of foul trouble. But he did too. Yeah, and there's a lot of guys all night in both games in foul trouble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And I do wonder what level of switching we're going to see with Towns in game two, because it's an interesting risk reward that I don't really think paid off for the Knicks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I think you're underselling the Porzingis thing. They're just such a different team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
You weren't counting on it. Life is much harder for Towns if Porzingis is in the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I picked Celtics in five. I've actually been higher than consensus on the Knicks this year. I mean, when the Knicks were 0-1 or whatever against all the best teams in the NBA, I was talking to people around the league. I'm like, I still kind of like this team, just raw talent-wise. I think they're a more dangerous playoff team than their record, but I just hated this matchup for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
It was really just about the matchup and how badly it's gone. And it's so fun because we get to live in this moment right now where we're three games into the second round, and for at least the next 36 hours, everything feels like it's been flipped on its head and everything's in play. All the favorites are down 0-1. Like, who knows? We could get to 72, 96 hours from now and order is restored.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
But right now, this is like a fun place to live.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Well, ironically, this was the it was not I was not skeptical about Boston last year. I picked them to win the championship. But that was the source of whatever skepticism remained about Boston was, well, they're going to face Philly and not have the best player. They're going to face Milwaukee and not have the best player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
They're going to face Dallas in the finals or Denver and not have the best player. And it turned out they were just the best team. And Tatum outplayed some of those guys when given the opportunity to do it. Or it was at their level, at least. So it's funny to bring that up now in conjunction with Brunson and Tatum. Brunson was great. And Anobi was great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And this is going to be a fun series, hopefully.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I've had, I've had friends ask me about tickets and like, people don't understand, like, I can't get you tickets. I don't get tickets when I go to games, I get press passes. And I've had, like, I have a family friend who really wanted to go. And I'm like, you can go buy tickets. Good luck.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
They're going to, I bet it's going to be like a thousand dollars to get in the door, like for upper, upper deck seats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Well, you're doing it right now. Stories have been written about it. James Dolan writes angry correspondence frequently.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
The Emirates. It's the Emirates. The Emirates Cup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I'm sure, by the way, I'm sure Milwaukee fans can look back at that and say to themselves today, we had a great, you know what? Great season. Great season. We won the Emirates Cup. Awesome season. Everything after that didn't matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Wait, are you counting Russ as the fifth or Porter Jr.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Um, what gave, what gave him away that he's playing a foot, uh, that he's wearing a football shoulder pad during games after the games to help him take off his Jersey.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Julien Straw, their cameo last night. I got really excited. I was like, oh, they're going to give him a shot. And then we didn't see him. We didn't see him in the second. We didn't see him in the second half. Can I give you a crazy stat? What? The Denver starting lineup with Russ in Michael Porter Jr.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
's place is now plus 42 in 75 minutes in the playoffs and has attempted 31 more free throws than the opponent in those 75 minutes. That is like an insane free throw differential. And it has a 40% offensive rebounding rate. and like an 85% defensive rebound rate. So it's just pounding the crap out of other teams, getting to the line, winning on the boards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
It's a monster number, that lineup, which is really shooting challenged. They found ways around it. I thought Russ was awesome as a cutter yesterday, which they're going to have to be on point on their cuts. But we got to talk. We got this discussion has to start with Mark Dagnall. It has to start with OKC blowing that game at the end, blowing a challenge, which I didn't mind so much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
and screwing up the fouling up three strategy. They did it too early. And then when Jokic was out of the game and they could not bring him back into the game to bail Denver out with a foul up three with 10 seconds left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And Jokic off the floor and give David Adelman a chance to bring Jokic back into the game. I wonder... If Adelman, with no timeouts, takes Jokic out for defense, they screw up the out-of-bounds play anyway, and Shea gets a dunk out of it to put Oklahoma City back up by three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I wonder if he thought, even if they score here, they're going to foul, and I'm going to be able to bring Jokic back into the game. But I... I don't know if he was playing chess or if he made a mistake and the Thunder made an even worse mistake to bail him out of it. I hated that. I'm a foul up three guy, but not that early.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Do you have a club? Is there a Facebook group? I like it like eight seconds is about my marker where I'm like, I'm cool. Foul up three or if or if the offense just gives you a chance. They're dribbling around with their back to the basket and there's someone convenient to foul. Too early and not when the best player on the floor is out of the game, like effectively played out of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I couldn't believe they fouled in that situation. I think Dagnall after the game said, that's my fault. I told him to foul. I took the blame for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
So even as you're saying no one came along for the ride with Shea, Chet misses two free throws, a putback dunk, and a fast break dunk. J-Dub is 5 of 20 or whatever he ends up as. Was it 5 of 20? Even as you're saying that, They still had the game and they still blew the game with bad clock management. And and like rare, you and I both think he's a top three coach in the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Rare, bad coaching game for Mark Dagnall.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
You got to find who the other one was and have a little... Wait, why did we just decide it was Kenny Atkinson?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Because they won 64 games or whatever it was. This team was awesome. It looked like a completely different... I think they looked like a completely different team stylistically.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I don't think either. OK, let's be clear. I don't think either should be panicked. I'm going to say Celtics should be a little more worried only because the Hauser injury, he turned his ankle or whatever, and he's been a zero so far in the playoffs. And the Porzingis weirdness just keeps right on rolling. This has been a strange season. He didn't play the second half. He has an illness again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Do you have a photo of Dagnall hanging up in that background somewhere?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And yet, what are we going to talk about now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Well, Jokic has the same superpower as Brunson, just differently sized players, which is all these teams want to help. when you get deep into the paint, they want to save their help for late, and they are elite shooters from 11 to 13 feet, 11 to 15 feet, which is a very awkward spot on the floor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And that basket you mentioned over Caruso after they switched, one adjustment for the Thunder, I think, is you just got to help more aggressively and sooner. Just force him to make that pass to Russ or Christian Brown or whoever, because he's going to make... 60% of those 12-foot shots. He doesn't see Alex Caruso. He feels him because you feel Alex Caruso, but he doesn't see him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
But that's their superpower. They make those baskets one-on-one from a range where teams are not ready to just swarm yet. I think you've got to swarm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Well, he's not. I mean, we all knew that going in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
But you really felt it watching. I was very surprised that they started with Chet on Jokic and Hartenstein on Gordon. I thought they would go the other way around, obviously, like the true sort of what the Wolves did with Rudy Gobert. Hartenstein on Jokic and Chet kind of roving around, and they switched to that at various points during the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I thought that would be their base defense, and that's one of the reasons I'm a little... I'm not worried so far about either of the favorites, either of these two teams. But I felt like this series is more of an unknown because we've barely really seen the Oklahoma City two bigs against Jokic, Gordon, Nuggets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And this was much more of a not feel-out game because the stakes are too high for a feel-out game. But there are too many levers left for everybody to pull in this series. But I thought that was interesting and surprising to me that that's the way they chose to match up. I get the theory of it. I would just rather have Holmgren's shop locking lurking around and he's too skinny for Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Jokic is going to eat him up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And so you take those two guys and put question marks beside them for game two and you're just sort of running low on guys. So I don't think either should be all that worried. But I guess I'll inflict you with a little more panic and say the Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
He got elbowed in the face. I am always sympathetic to big guys who get called for those fouls, even just regular offensive fouls because they're just penalized for being tall.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I picked Oklahoma City in six. Howard Beck picked Oklahoma City in seven. Ooh, I had five. And well, I mean, both of us said... Oklahoma City should win. I just can't go shorter than six with Jokic. The Nuggets don't lose playoff series by wide margins if the team is healthy around Jokic, if Murray and Porter are healthy around Jokic. And so I went six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
out of sort of deference to Jokic, because I do think Oklahoma City... I'm talking to an empty chair. What's up, chair? Oklahoma City is the better team, the deeper team. They have home court. They're rested, although not a good week for the team rest in rest versus rest. But Jokic is Jokic. He's the best player. He's going to be the best player. And he was awesome last night. He had enough help.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And just like, look, everyone's going to focus on the buzzer beater. Second buzz... Not buzzer beater, but almost buzzer beater. Aaron Gordon... It's just become one of my favorite players in the NBA. This is like we all talked for years about how miscast he was in Orlando, both by his own fault and the Magic's fault and supporting everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
This is one of those trades where like he was born to play with Jokic. He was born to play this role. He should never leave. I think he knows he should never leave. It's just absolutely perfect. He's so goddamn tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Like, he gets down inside and just beats the hell out of people, and he's patient, and he pump fakes, and he'll jump through you, and he's gotten so good at finishing tough shots around the rim. Seven offensive rebounds. Deaked Jalen Williams on a free throw offensive rebound, which is one of my favorite things that he does every once in a while. Just... An awesome, awesome player. Awesome player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Christian Brown, just like talk about a guy I all of a sudden trust in any big spot, even on threes, only one of four from three last night. I don't mind when he shoots them. 13 rebounds, a couple of big putbacks. Like he's just awesome. He's ready.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
You don't see a lot of thunder losses when they double up the other team and force turnovers. Nuggets had 18 turnovers. Oklahoma City had nine. That's usually like Oklahoma City wins by 20. That's their formula. That's how they win. There are a couple of things I think they could do better. I don't think they punish Jokic enough defensively. And they let Michael Porter Jr. off the hook.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
If that dude's going to play, I'm going at him every single possession one way or another. And I don't think they did nearly enough defensively. There's other things they can do. But, you know, I can't wait for this was the series. I guess the common denominator is Denver. Denver's like always in the series that I'm most excited about. I think part of it is Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Part of it is that they're sort of the basketball nerds team. And the Thunder are, you know, in a lot of ways, a basketball nerds team as well. I cannot wait for game two of this series. It still feels like an unwrapped present. Like there's a lot of mystery to it. I can't wait for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Well, Brown gets the rebound and he has an immediate choice of do I bring this up myself or do I kick it ahead to Russ on the wing? And I'm watching him like, I wonder what he's going to do here. And he kicks it ahead. Look, I talked a lot about Russ on my pod yesterday. I don't want to repeat it. The one thing I didn't say that has been different about him this playoffs versus last playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And this is to your point about his steadiness defensively. He's not playing wild defense. And again, like last year, he was just gambling, doing crazy stuff, flying all over the place. He's been doing his role, sticking to his guy, getting rebounds, but he's just been playing within himself defensively. on both ends of the floor, which for Russ is not an easy thing to do by his own admission.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
He's a force of nature, quote unquote, liable to do anything at any time, but he's been steady on defense. And I think that's all like a lot of it with Russ is eliminate the loudest mistakes, eliminate the loud gambles on defense that go bad, eliminate the loud misses at the rim when you fall over. And he's like kind of done that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
What's your favorite memory of him with the Wizards?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I'm still going Boston just for the health uncertainty.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
It's a very strange career. It's been a different career in the playoffs than it is in the regular season. His playoff points per game is still only 19 points per game on average. It's a big drop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
But I will say, last season, I wrote a piece for ESPN about him after that Denver series about how he finally had sort of chilled out in the playoffs. And I think a lot of that has somewhat persisted beyond that Denver series. And even in the first round last year, they crushed Phoenix with Minnesota crush Phoenix. The crazy like hook pass turnovers to nobody are kind of gone from his game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
His fouling got under control. It's back a little out of control. This playoffs. It's he's just a really interesting player because the Timberwolves made a gigantic bet that, um, We can't win big with Towns as a center. It's just defensively, it's just never going to work. And we're going to bet everything on it. And we're going to get Rudy Gobert.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And then the Knicks bet not that much, but a lot of salary cap space, at least on... Actually, we can win big with Carl Anthony Towns as a center. Now, maybe they planned on playing Mitchell Robinson with him much more than they have because of Mitchell Robinson's health injury. And so we've seen these, like, is Cat a four? Is he a five? Do we still not even know what he is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
If he is going to be your five, do you have to have the perfect ecosystem around him where teams can't do this thing where they guard him with a wing? Do you have to have just all incredible shooters around him so they have to put their five on him? And the Knicks can't get to that place as often as I think they would like. He's just a really... And the defensive limitations are still...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
kind of as stark as ever, I think, for him. But offensively, the shooting is just incredible. He does have a case as the greatest long-range shooting big man of all time. He probably is. It's just the Knicks haven't been able to leverage that skill as much as I think they would have liked to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
His first few series, like I remember writing about this, he had like an alarming number of games and even more if you include play in games. Which drives me nuts how the playing games just vanish from basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I can't find him. But he had a lot of 11 points or under games. And part of it was foul trouble. Just always getting taken out of the game. Part of it was there would just be these games where... You could it was this sort of push and pull of are they not calling enough plays for him to get the ball?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Or is he just like kind of passively accepting not getting the ball in a way we don't want our superstars to be? And he just doesn't get the ball. And you're like, why is he not getting the ball? It was a very strange and like that's gotten a little better, particularly last season. And I remember the Denver series. the Minnesota Denver series that Denver won in the first round going up three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Oh, I thought in the middle of that series, he kind of figured out some stuff. And that's why you, even when a series is three Oh, and kind of boring, you still got to keep an eye on it. Cause you never know. And like, I thought, I thought he kind of turned a little bit of a page in that series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I feel like that wasn't him, and I don't remember who it was. But that's the year that Jada McDaniels punched a wall and Nas Reed was hurt, and they were kind of a mash unit. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I don't, you know, I mean, defensively, I don't think much of a leap is ever going to come. I think he just is what he is defensively, which is a liability on the pick and roll and someone that you've got to kind of scheme around. Offensively, it just sort of like if the team context were ever perfect around him,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I could see him becoming like a, like a, oh my God, what am I supposed to do here? Kind of force, but it just.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
It's never going to, if like Josh Hart could shoot threes to a point where people guarded him, like, but no one that, that context is never going to exist. If he were Porzingis on Boston, surrounded by Derek White, Drew Holiday, Jason Tatum, and Jalen Brown, it's,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
He would be unguardable because you would have no choice, but to put your five on him, which is why Porzingis lives such a great life when he plays in Boston. But that's a very hard needle to thread and neither Minnesota nor New York have been able to thread it quite yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Diddling! Diddling!
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
The, the two to 13 span of that draft is rough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I'm like Russillo. I'm a big Booker guy. Yeah, I think it's probably Booker. I would take Booker.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I'm happy with either, but I like Booker.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Of course you want to talk about Justice Winslow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Wow. Five through nine are out of the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Looking back in Detroit, the debate for Detroit was, and this is one of those things that I learned afterwards. I actually believe it's true. It's not just spin. It's that it, because it's actually more embarrassing for them. It was Stanley Johnson or Devin Booker was their draft room debate. And they chose Stanley Johnson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And it was either the year before the year after it was Luke Kennard versus Donovan Mitchell. And they chose Luke. I remember Denver traded the Donovan Mitchell pick like to trade down. And it's one of many. You go back and look at Denver's management of first round picks from like 2013 until now. Go Bears out. They dumped a pick to get rid of Farid. They dumped a pick to get rid of Nurkic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I couldn't believe he missed that shot. I screamed in my seat when he missed that shot out of pure shock. Yeah, I highlighted... I mean, look. What were they? 15 of 60. I highlighted... There were... A several that I just thought were lazy, settle shots. Three that I highlighted in particular were that one at the end of regulation over Mitchell Robinson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Like it's not it's not awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I liked how that became a big story this week. I thought we've already been talking about this for like 18 months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
But you got a window, you got a window when the off season starts where the apron situation at least becomes more palatable for a lot of different teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Did there be no cookies and cream? Cookies and cream!
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
It's way more disappointing, but mostly just cause he's injured so often. Um, I mean, I think back to, I remember vividly when he got traded to Dallas, um, how most of the reaction, and part of it was Knicks fans had grown so attached to him. Finally, we have a homegrown player, a homegrown star that we can build around. We nailed this pick. He does all these crazy stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Durant calls him the unicorn. Then he gets injured. Then he gets traded. But the reaction was fury, fury from Knicks fans that they gave up on him so early and got what looked like so little in return. And then, of course, Dallas has to go and trade him for Spencer Dinwiddie and Davis Bertans a couple years later. But there's always these windows, right? There was the bubble playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
where for a little bit, he and Luka look legitimately like, oh, I get this. This is dangerous. This is like a really dangerous one point, whatever point forward center combination. And then injuries undo that and you get straighted. Then Boston, perfect compliment team raises to another level when he's out there. He was the superpower out there enough. And like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
We're like, just just go to the basket to tie game, like get fouled, go to basket.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Even the finals last year, he plays game one. When you say cold hero, it's about game one and game five of the finals, right? Game one, he comes out like a house of fire.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
post up post up three block chase down block post up then he gets injured then he comes back for the clincher and plays like okay the emotional lift he comes out of the tunnel couple of big plays it's and now he's now we don't I mean I I don't know I don't do you know I don't know like what did they say anything after the game like I don't even know what the illness is that's been tight-lipped
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I think his rim protection has been largely consistent even when his shot is not there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Who's your next guy in line? If they have to go deeper into their rotation beyond the regular rotation, who's the guy you trust the most out of the next group of guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I'll tell you, man, Luke Cornett's good. The guy's a good basketball player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And Derek White had one in the middle of the third quarter where he drew Brunson on a switch and just kind of dribbled around and hoisted a three from the top of the arc and missed. And it's like, cool, like it's Brunson. I get it. You're hunting Brunson, but hunt with the right guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I think he played 17 minutes yesterday. I'm asking you, if forced, and you've got to go beyond the Cornett, Pritchard, Hauser, Horford, I just got to steal minutes. Are we dusting off Torrey Craig? Who do you actually trust? Shireman?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
In my notes, I have a whole sheet of notes previewing Nick Celtics. I had a little thing in the margins, and I looked at it while I was podcasting with Howard, and I was like, you know what? We're running out of time. This is too crazy to say. I didn't mind the precious of two minutes in that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
If we're talking about guys who don't play and I think could have a role to play in this series, like if you're going to switch, that's one thing he can do. And I know he was only in because they had foul emergencies and Mitchell Robinson can only play so many minutes. I actually liked his minutes, and it's in my notes like, hey, maybe, just like maybe he's a guy who can play in this series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I wonder if Tibbs goes back to him at any point to try to steal some minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Maybe. I mean, I think their goal is not what happened yesterday. They are not going to be able to win if Boston takes 63s, even if I think that's too many and you probably think that's too many. Although, ironically, when they finally went to the rim late in the game, instead of kicking out for an open three, Jalen Brown missed at the rim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And Tatum's in one corner and Jalen's in another corner doing nothing the entire possession, just sort of an aimless one. And then I thought late in the game, they missed the three, got an offensive rebound, and Drew jacked that left corner three that just felt rushed to me. I know you're behind at that point. I can't remember what the margin was, but there's three and a half minutes left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
It's like, this is why they don't go to the rim, I guess, is because the kickout was there. Yeah. I think every team's goal is try to sucker Boston into Tatum and Brown taking a bunch of 18-footers and just bog down the offense. Don't let them run. Don't let them get the blender going. It's just much easier said than done. Orlando did a pretty good job of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
They have better personnel for it than the Knicks do. But I think that's every team's goal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I mean, I'm sure they do. Joe Missoula is a very smart coach. Their staff is very smart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
You want him to do the Spoh arm wave? Spoh is the best arm wave in the NBA. So it starts and ends with Spoh. Who is the worst arm wave? I was going to say Doc, but Doc will get out of his crouch and throw an arm wave in there every once in a while. I don't see Ty Lue do a lot of arm waving. Ty Lue. It's off the top of my head.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I can't. It's just, I don't know. It was not good. It was not good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I always say his face looks so tight that it looks like his skin is going to crack open into pieces.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
We don't need to, we don't need to do it. I know it's over. It's over. Like there's no, there's no debating left anymore. Just like, that's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Last take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Uh, I would, I mean, I would, what is he now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I would say no, but I mean, I worry about these tall dudes, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
You mentioned Embiid. I haven't listened. I've listened to part of you and Ryan from Sunday. When did you, I guess it must be toward the end when you bring up Embiid to the Lakers. You're going to have to take me through this one. Like you got aggregated. Was there, there was really an Embiid to the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
This crazy left corner three, tough angle, right off an offensive rebound. So there were a few of those for sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Is Cam Neely still involved?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I, man, you, you throw me on Sega Genesis 1993, 94. Oh, that was your guy? Cam Neely and Ray Bork. I'm, I was smoking people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Craig Janney taking face-offs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
No, it's interesting. So I was thinking if Daryl Morey made that trade, like if they got expirings and an asset, you said a first round pick, right? Like they're not getting Reeves. They're not getting Reeves, right? Like just a pick. What would the reaction be? in Philly and would, would Daryl, Daryl would have to have the courage to say, if he gets healthy, I'm going to look like an idiot. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
My basketball hoop just fell back there. Uh, but I'm looking like 51, 55, 59, 64, $69 million player option in 2029. I think you'd have to do that trade if you were Philly and it were offered to you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
You get out of that contract because we all know how great he is. But the evidence is just is what he is. And it's so long. It just goes on forever. Now, I think you'd probably have to do it. And with the fans riot or with the are the fans at this point, like whatever, like we've seen enough of the fans would be OK.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Yeah, it's just like, I guess we're going Maxi McCain and, you know, you got to keep, you better do well in the lottery this year. You better not have the scenario you just laid out. By the way, I can't wait for the lottery. That's going to be an exciting lottery. Every lottery is exciting. This is a good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I can't I can't I got to say I got to admit it. I spent my daughter's swim practice lesson. I was the carpool guy last night. And when I'm the carpool guy, there's a little conference room.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I've heard that about you. I'm a great carpool guy. Snacks. It's like a party back there. But I spend the practice and there's a conference room with Wi-Fi. I watched a solid 30 minutes of Ace Bailey tape. I was like, I got to see what everyone's talking about with Ace Bailey. It's... Very exciting lottery with the Philly subplot, with Houston getting Phoenix's pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Lots of stuff going on in the lottery.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
What's the, what's the, uh, I watched some film on Malawatch and Knipple. Is it Knipple? Those guys, I don't watch any college basketball. What's the book on Knipple? What are we thinking? Oh, I'm already locked in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
He's a pretty good athlete with the ball. He's a pretty good athlete with the ball. I guess the concern is just laterally. Can he slide his feet on defense? But he's got a little shit to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
So Duke started... How many lottery picks? At least three lottery picks?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Well, because I'm going to the lottery next week in Chicago. For some reason, you've always loved the lottery. Because it's ridiculous. It's completely ridiculous that I can't... It's intoxicating that all these brainiacs come in this room... They've devoted their entire lives to getting an edge in this competitive business.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And they're at the mercy of this stupid freaking machine that's spitting balls around like it's the local news lottery. It's the stupidest thing slash most awesome thing in sports. But I just was like, I got to get a little familiar with who's going to be on the board.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
I thought he was the best player in the game. If you want to say Brunson because of the late game threes over Horford, fine. Ananobi made every shot they needed him to make. And defensively, he was like everywhere defensively. and I tweeted this after the game last night, you know, look, the shooting luck is obviously huge and the numbers buried out this morning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I was also wondering if he was going to be at the Met Gala.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
So they broadcast the actual lottery afterwards. Like right when the show ends, they do. I think, I don't know why. I think it's out of, I think the TV partners prefer the show. It's, I don't know why. What would you prefer?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
There is something about a guy being on stage on national television, having his heart ripped out. That is just, it is, is just pretty good television. It's pretty, it's pretty great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Jerry, was it Jerry West in 2003 for the Grizzlies?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Thursday morning. So we come off these two games on Wednesday night. Oh, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
This was the Knicks were lucky that Boston missed so many threes and so many good threes, but on maybe, so they missed 45 threes on maybe like eight to 10 of them or, or even shots that didn't become threes. The combination of Ananobi and, and bridges with a little bit of heart, just kind of shading into the paint, helping, recovering, making Tatum and Brown like see arms and bodies.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And then there are like three or four plays where There was one in particular I'm thinking of where Tatum had the ball on a mismatch up top. Jalen had the ball on a mismatch up top. And it OBs on Tatum on the right wing. He begins to slide over toward the middle of the floor to show Jalen another body.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And then Bridges, I think, has to zone up between Tatum on the wing and Derek White in the corner. And that's when Boston has you. You're dead. There's so much shooting there. Brown kicks the ball to Tatum. Ananobi like rushes in this furious closeout. Bridges like stunts a little bit off Derek White. So they run Tatum off the first three. Tatum hits White, correct pass in the right corner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
White decides I'm going to backdoor cut and drive this into the lane instead of taking a three. Misses a pretty tough layup. Like it's a shot he should make, but it's at least tough. And like those are the margins that the Knicks are playing with. when they help like that. And they helped really well, and it's a great battle against a great offense, and they won enough of them last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Some of it was good Knicks defense, but the more I rewatched a lot of the missed threes this morning, I looked at the tracking data numbers. I think luck definitely outweighs Knicks great defense in terms of why the Celtics missed all those threes. They also shot badly from two as well. They didn't shoot well from anywhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
ironically, he looked okay playing bully ball in the paint. Like it wasn't as easy for him as it had been, but the three is like one of 10 from three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
It feels like he's missed every three in the playoffs. I mean, I know he's made some against Orlando, but he's not shooting well. I want to mention one thing. You mentioned end of shot clock possessions that the Celtics had. Two things on that. Number one, we all know what you're doing on every possession.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
You're finding Cat and you're finding Brunson and you're putting one or both of them in actions that bring them into contact with Tatum and Brown and their cool set plays and all that. We all know what you're doing. You know what you're doing. The Knicks know what you're doing. The fans know what you're doing. Lucky the Leprechaun knows what you're doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Can you just start doing it before there's 12 seconds on the shot clock? Right. Just too many possessions, they just fritter away the first half of the shot clock. The more time you have when you start that first action, the more chances you give the Knicks to make mistakes or miss a rotation or whatever. And the second thing, I want to give the Knicks a lot of credit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
When you get into scramble mode, and the Celtics will put you into scramble mode, whether you're switching, not switching, and the Knicks switched a lot more last night, your entire goal as a defense becomes just make the offense make one more pass, make one more play. And yeah, sometimes that led to they make another play and another play and another play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
And it's a pretty good layup that the Celtics happened to bonk. Or sometimes it's a flyby where the first three they have to pump fake and wait for you to fly by. And then they shoot another one and their rhythm is OK, but not quite the same. And they got lucky on the Celtics missing a lot of those shots.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
But they made the Celtics make one more play and two more plays a lot, particularly late in the game. And you got to give them credit for that. They were flying, flying on defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Am I going to have to carry this solo? Just just fill in. Start doing some tap dancing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
How annoyed were you, you personally? I just mean you personally. Not me, you. Reggie Miller is just cackling delight over how much he loves Jalen Brunson. And Jalen Brunson is the best closer in the game, the best fourth scorer. They got the, like 10 times he called him the best fourth quarter player in the game, the clutch award winner. And I could feel you like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Can I talk about Josh Hart real quickly since you brought him up? Super fun game for him. Yeah. And the Celtics predictably put Porzingis on him to start the game and put Tatum on Towns, which is what they've done every Knicks game, which is why this game felt, in terms of experiencing it live, watching it live, one of the stranger games I can remember because at halftime,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
it felt like standard issue Knicks Celtics. Like I've seen this game a bunch of times. The Celtics are winning by a lot. They're doing all the things that annoy the Knicks and give them problems. And he just were like, I guess this is how the series is going to go. Like this is exactly what we expected. And then it completely flips on its head.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe
Hart was active setting screens because he had their centers on him. And I thought Missoula, made a mistake late in the game, and I have it in my notes, I thought he should have switched Horford onto Hart much sooner than he did instead of keeping him on Cat and getting that Brunson-Cat pick and roll, which they just switched and Horford ends up on Brunson. You could do that with Hart if you want.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Is John Collins on a beach in Mexico somewhere? Like, it's so embarrassing. The Raptors have been embarrassing for the past month. Like, hey, we're just not going to play any of our guys in the second half of any close games. The Jazz have been embarrassing the entire year. And Phoenix has somehow been more embarrassing than the Jazz relative to expectations. Yeah. I got a lot of takes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I haven't talked to a microphone. I haven't been able to make fun of the 26 teams with trade places with us. Matt, issue me a statement that's going to be in Springfield one day. That was the best. 26 EuroLeague teams? I think you just meant all the teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
How shocked were you when Zion got shut down for the season the other day? Like, was it the equivalent of the Luka trade level of shock that the Pelicans had to shut down Zion for the season?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
That's why all the talk about what happened with Taylor Jenkins, what happened with Noah LaRoche, what happened with Isalo, this Finnish coach that they've hired and now promoted. Why now? Why with nine games left? Well, they're sliding. They can't beat any good teams. Their record against above 500 teams is terrible. They had expectations, blah, blah, blah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
it shouldn't be the sixth paragraph of that, that you mentioned that John Morant just plays half the games and Brandon, Brandon Clark's injury was a sneaky big blow to their team. He was a big glue guy for them, a lot of their best lineups. And like, if you take out your best, if not your, maybe your best bench player, but certainly your best backup big and your star plays half the games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Like you're, yeah, you're not going to beat a lot of the above 500 teams in the Western conference. It's going to be hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, I mean that, that the offense is just fine and fine. Is it going to be good enough? And it's not dynamic enough. It's still not dynamic enough. Um, You can go back and look at the transactions that they've made. We don't even need to get into the Durant thing, but just the Aiton, Toumani, Kamara, who's really good in Portland for Nurkic thing has turned into a disaster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And then you have to salary dump Nurkic and attach more stuff to salary dump him. And Beal just doesn't play. Beal still doesn't play enough games to get the offense running at full throttle. And then the defense is... You know, the bottom 10 in defense is basically all the tanking teams in Phoenix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And some of their bad defensive games are the mistakes, the non-rotations are just suggestive of a team that doesn't care. And they have better games than that sometimes. But sometimes it's like, no, no one, no one rotated from the weak side. Like no one even seems angry that no one rotated from the weak side. No one gives the my bad for not rotating from the weak side.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Just like, all right, on to the next one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't want to do the Durant thing now, the Durant what-if thing. But I will say that I have long been so fascinated with Durant that after the Warriors won their second championship, And it was largely anticlimactic. The only piece I could think of to write the headline was, what does Kevin Durant want? And it was a lot about how he had been unfulfilled by winning the first championship.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I talked to him and I talked to tons of people who had been around him. And literally three nights ago, watching an NBA game with a buddy asking me, he was asking me about Kevin Durant. And I said, man... I don't really want to write a book. It's one of the things I thought about during this time. Not the right time for me, but boy, would I love to write the Kevin Durant book.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I just think his career and the fork in the road of the 2016 offseason and the reverse engineering you could do, the what-ifs, all the paths not taken.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
is just endlessly going to be fascinating because talent wise and statistics wise there's like no question this guy is one of the 10 to 12 best players that has ever played and there's been nobody like him ever stylistically and anyway that's it no more no more kd unless we talk about where he's going to get traded i think it's fair to even though lebron has the most points ever
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Let me... I live about as far from Seattle as possible in the NBA market. Right. The Sonics have not existed for, what, 17 years, 18 years now? Yeah, 2008. I still have a Sonics conversation with somebody in New York or Connecticut that every other week, every month. I see kids who were not alive when the Sonics existed, wearing the green and yellow, just throwback stuff that their parents got.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
The Sonics matter so much to so many people, and Something about that color scheme, the Peyton Kemp teams, the frenetic way they played has stuck in the collective memory and even like outlasted the generation of fans who were there. And obviously we all agree like they need to come back in Seattle. The Supersonics need to exist again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's good to see you too. And yeah, new name, new show, new graphics, new everything. And I've been paying attention to the NBA season as I normally would have, even though I didn't have a job. I've been watching probably even more than usual because I've had no other work to do. I've been meeting people in the city when they've come in and I've traveled to some places.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I mean, the Lakers are a big team, and your little guy, your Fred Van Vliet, is either Gargard Reeves, or if Finney Smith's on the floor, maybe Finney Smith instead of Hayes, or maybe Hachimura, who got a couple post-ups last night in that kind of matchup, and...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You know, the Lakers are running a lot of stuff where Reeves and LeBron will screen for each other away from the ball while Luka has it. And that cutting is what teams don't want to switch because they don't want to switch a small guy onto LeBron. And they have Luka just waiting for whatever pass opens up. And when they don't switch, someone cuts open or there was a miscommunication.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think Finney Smith got a three in the second half last night out of it. They're just hard to beat in a chess match, no matter how athletic you are, because they're big. But the Rockets, like if the Rockets could throw speed plus shooting at them, that's a different kind of equation for the Lakers. It's just speed, but not enough shooting, not enough shot making.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So I've kept my finger on the pulse in preparation for a potential in-season return, which is now imminent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You saw what the Rockets last night. They still can't decide. Jalen Green's on the bench in the fourth quarter late in the game. Presumably their quote-unquote best offensive player. I don't think he is. I think Shen Goon is. But then there's minutes in the fourth quarter where Shen Goon's on the bench for a long time. They're playing Jabari Smith at center. They're not even playing Smith.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They're playing five wings. And I'm sitting there thinking, I think a lot of this offense has just got to run through Shen Goon. But LeBron, they got a takeaway on an entry pass late in that game. We all saw this coming for the Rockets. It's why they're going to be maybe the most interesting team in the NBA over the playoffs. And depending on what happens in the playoffs after the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But I, I don't, I mean, look, I think that would be, that series would be a really, really hard fought series. I probably would, I guess I would probably pick the lake. I haven't thought about it, but I would probably pick the Lakers just based on experience and, and reliability if they, if they stay healthy. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Oh, like, well, first of all, it's, it's funny. I was talking about this with somebody yesterday in the league and it's like, you know, look, we, we all know that they've kicked around both of the Phoenix stars. Right. And I think there's some division internally about the Durant question there. Eme Odoka obviously has a history with Durant, really likes him. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
This person asked me, what do the Rockets do if they lose in the first round? And I think the implication was that would make them even hungrier to go for like a big win now trade. I said, well, let's flip it around. What if they win a round and they lose to Denver in seven games? Like a really hard fought, like I can feel good about this outcome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And my implication was, does that make you more confident in staying the course? And the scout that I was talking to flipped it around and said, actually, it may make you think we're so close that we still should go for the right kind of all-in upgrade. And it's just going to be interesting to see how they perform in the playoffs and what the implications of that are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Offensively, I just don't think they're good enough. But defensively, toughness-wise, they have everything. And I don't know. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So I was asleep when that happened because I don't have a job. And so I didn't have to be up at 1230 in the morning or 1215 in the morning. I woke up the next day and obviously my phone is just, there's a million notifications that I didn't even look at. I was like, I guess Jimmy Butler got traded overnight. I guess that finally happened. And then like eight more minutes passed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I looked, I was like, oh my God. And then I still, I still, I mean, we're going to talk about the Lakers a lot. And I watched their game against the Rockets last night. One of my buddies, Nathan is a huge Rockets fan. I went over and watched with him and we're, almost two months out and I'm like, I just can't even believe that he's on their team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And having been to a Lakers game recently, like they can't even believe that he's on their team. It's insane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, let's see. I got laid off on a Wednesday. I flew back on a Thursday and I had several friends meet me at my house along with my wife with alcohol. And two or three drinks into that night, Karl-Anthony Towns got traded to the Knicks in what I would rate as a top 10 most interesting trade that has happened in the 15 plus years I've covered the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'm glad you mentioned the NBA Cup because... we talked about this in LA, somebody else mentioned the NBA cup to me 10 days ago. And I was like, that, that happened this year. Yeah. Who won that? Who won that again? And I'm like, it's a bad sign that someone who lives and breathes the NBA has zero memory.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It took me a second, about minute, 30 seconds to remember exactly who was in the final four and what happened. And I, I don't care at all that the Milwaukee bucks won the NBA cup. It does not matter to me. I don't think it really matters to the bucks. Like I just, I don't know how to, it's a, I guess it's cool. The courts are fun, but I, it, do you care? I don't care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
The playoffs come and you're like, Oh, this is the real, the real stuff is about to start.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So Chet Hartenstein, the numbers on those two, which is obviously the midseason curveball they threw at the league when Chet finally got healthy after Hartenstein missed the beginning of the season. Plus 15 per 100 possessions. Elite offense, elite defense, elite rebounding. Hartenstein's passing and floater have fit in about as well as could possibly have been expected.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it's just another, it's not a curveball. It's the way they start games, and it's worked that well. And I just, one of the things I love about the Thunder, and I wish I'd been at a podcast to talk about it is, There's something old school about it. Again, they're your second or third or fourth in offense or whatever, so it's not an amazing offensive team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I just love the fact that in this, are there too many points? Is scoring too easy? Are there too many threes? The team at the top of the standings is like, you know what? We are going to win forever. First and foremost, because we are a historically great defensive team that is going to take the ball from you a lot of times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And when we're not taking the ball from you, we're going to be all up in your shit, all over the floor. Deflections, steals, physicality, size, everything. And when our offense sputters, that was the way the NBA used to be. Like, your jumpers come and go, defense travels. Defense shows up to every game. And the Thunder have that element to it. And I love how...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
intense they are, how proud they are, how they do not relent at all. And they're betting more than anything else on, hey, yeah, even if worst case scenario happens to our offense, good luck scoring on us more than we score on you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
All right. So yeah, do you, how does this draft work? Do you now pick your second banana or do you go to any category anywhere you want?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And we were just laughing at the fortune of what timing. You don't see a lot of trades of that magnitude right before the season starts. So that was one. Just, I mean, the all-time... We'll never have a perfect storm of disaster seasons like we've had in Phoenix, Philadelphia, and Dallas. It's just incomprehensible how badly all of those things have gone and all in totally different ways.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
No one's ever been in their zone. There's never been a team... Not with this many assets. ...this good now and this set up for the future. I said this a year and a half to two years ago on the Low Post podcast, which doesn't exist. They are the best present plus future set up in the history of basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I don't know enough about the history of the other sports to say the history of all professional sports. I just have a hard time believing there's another convincing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I had him on my legacy list for essentially all the same reasons. A chance to cement his place in not only the current NBA, but to begin cementing his place in NBA history with a dominant playoff run. And, you know, I looked up his stats from the Mavs series last year. And they were way better than I remembered or would have guessed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
His scoring carried over into that series and his efficiency carried over into that series. He's not an A-plus playmaker like some of the other, you know, like Jokic, like Luka, like LeBron. Yeah. but he's B plus a minus and he's gotten better. And I think that series, the Mavericks size, the way they clogged the lane on him, tested his playmaking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I don't think he was quite there yet as a playmaker. And I don't think the thunder supporting cast and shooters were definitely not quite there yet. I think they're there now. And I don't see any reason why, I mean, people talk about you got to put size on him. This guy's a good matchup for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You've talked about Tatum trying to guard him or Brown trying to guard him or Anthony Edwards trying to guard him. No one has been able to really guard him. And I don't see any reason that the scoring is going to... It might slow down a little bit just because the percentages are preposterous across the board. I think the scoring is going to persist. And I think the team around him is more ready.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I think he's more... The other parts of his game are more ready. And I think he's... just unbelievable and I expected them to continue to be unbelievable in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Some self-inflicted, others not. And I just think... I'm just looking at the standings to jog my memory. I mean, the excellence of the Cavs and the Thunder would have been really fun to talk about all year. And I still, you know, some outlets, including Spotify, Ringer, accepted. I still don't think those teams have been talked about enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I mean, I agree. And it's an art. What he does is art. It's beautiful to watch. The level of space he creates when you don't even realize that he's about to create it. is just... He'll have five feet of open space and you're like, wait, did he even do a hard jab step? Like, what move was that that got that guy... Yeah, they were guarding him at midcourt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
People are so afraid of him getting by them because he has a top gear that he doesn't use much because he doesn't have to use it much that he... Just a little glance forward, guys are like jumping back and he's just pulling up for these wide open 18-footers. And I think the reason...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
People in the MVP argument, which thankfully I have not had to be a part of this year and hasn't been so ugly like it was the last couple of years either. People will point to the defense and say, SGA is a plus defender. Jokic is not. And I think that's largely been true this year. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Jokic is rebounding and just positional smarts and hands at a position where defense really matters, I think is a little bit underrated. But to me, the difference has been teams game plan to attack Jokic. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The Nuggets are 20th and defense is not good enough this year. We'll see if it tightens up in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Teams can game plan to attack Shea, too, because there's just no one else to attack on Oklahoma City. He's kind of like their Curry in that way, a better defense player, obviously, than Curry ever was. But Curry was the weak link because every other link was as solid as a link could get on those peak Warrior teams. And the Thunder aren't worried about it. He's big. He's stronger than you think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He has more blocks and steals than Jokic combined. It's not close. And they are ideally positioned around him to tilt the floor toward him if he needs any help. But they don't have to sit in coaches meetings and think, well, what do we do when this team puts Shea in the pick and roll or when this guy targets Shea?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Sure, when Luka has him, it's going to be, you know, the size advantage is what it is. But they don't have to sit there and think that hard about, oh, we got to scrap everything we're doing defensively because they're going to go at Shea this way or that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I mean, the Thunder are 63 and 12 with like the greatest net rating in the history of basketball. Yeah. And I just, you know, so many interesting storylines like, oh, here comes the Chet-Hartenstein combination. How's that going to work? How's Caruso fitting in off the bench? The Cavs and Kenny Atkinson reworking their offense and Donovan Mitchell being sold on a lesser role. And you and me both.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
All right. I'm going to go... In the interest of leaving you some of the categories that are- You don't have to leave me anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I didn't know we were actually building a team. I feel like this guy qualifies as either one of the bananas, but I'll take him in the leap category on the other number one seed. Evan Mobley in the playoffs. I just can't wait to see how this Cavs team looks in the playoffs on both ends of the floor. I think their offense is number one with a bullet. Mitchell has done enough in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Now, he's had a couple dud playoff series, but he's also had like three or four, oh my God, playoff series. So, like, I trust him. Garland, I trust. I trust the offense largely despite the spacing concerns. It still, you know, theoretically exists playing two big guys together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Defensively, I'm very interested to see, depending on the matchups and if they do get to Boston, how they match up in some of those series and where Mobley is on the floor and how, Does he have to guard Tatum? Does he guard Brown? He's guarded all these guys here and there, but how do they utilize him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But I think the Evan Mobley thing is... I mean, even against the Celtics last year when Jared Allen got hurt, he played center and all of a sudden everyone's like, oh, he's got to play center. He looked amazing rolling to the rim and dunking and he looks amazing now with the big-to-big passing, with the cutting, with just, oh, you're going to put a wing on me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'm just going to dribble from 18 feet out and beat the hell out of him and hit a hook shot. I... I would have him in pen on second-team All-NBA. I actually thought about him for the fifth spot on first-team All-NBA when Mitchell started slumping a little bit. I think Mitchell has now popped out of that slump and reclaimed that spot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But that's how good... And I heard you and Rosillo talking about whether Anthony Edwards was coming for that spot. And I was saying, I think actually Mobley given he's averaging 21 a game, what he does on defense, what he does as a playmaker, has a case to be at least in that discussion. But I have him in Penn, second team All-NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And all that said, we've seen what happens to this team's offense in the playoffs. It's a totally different offense. New coach, Garland's healthy. That was the most undersold thing in dumb NBA conversations going into the season is people just not remembering what a miserable season Darius Garland had health-wise last season and what a difference a healthy Darius Garland was going to make.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Um, but there's going to be moments where the floor gets tight and a team really challenges them to, does your, like all your little fancy cutting stuff, which I think they've actually done a little less of lately when I've watched them, all that's going to be scouted. We're going to be totally dialed in on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's going to get harder and it's going to get harder in ways that test have been mobile. And this team reasonably now has championship expectations that don't ride only on him. But I think he is, uh, the biggest swing factor, along with their, you know, how are they going to defend these big wings when they run into them? Like, is Max Struis really the guy? Is DeAndre Hunter really the guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
That DeAndre, by the way, the DeAndre Hunter lineup, like Hunter in Struis' place and the other four starters has only played like 30 minutes. I'm actually surprised how little they've used that lineup. I think they're saving it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We're going to be wrong a lot. One of the things we've both been right on is amid all the... Maybe Evan Mobley is a bit overhyped. Maybe he's like, you know, whoever bad big man 2.0, I won't name any names. We were like, no, we're keeping the stock. This guy's going to be awesome. And he's been awesome. And he's been awesome...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Is he defensive player of the year? I can't decide. I don't have a ballot because I gave mine up last year, and even if I wanted to get it back, I don't think they give them to unemployed people. You're employed. Well, now I am. We'll get you a ballot. I can't decide. I'm starting to buy into the Draymond self-created...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
hype for defensive player of the year because he has been spectacular the entire year. Jaron Jackson Jr. has missed some games and still gets into foul trouble like once every three games. They just have to take him out constantly because he's in foul trouble. And obviously, Wemby is not eligible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think it's possible he's never made an all-defense team. And if that's the case, that's going to change this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think I'd have him as a most improved player, by the way. I know all the smart money is on Cade. I think considering expectations and expectations and prior track record, I don't... I don't think anyone's made a bigger leap than Dyson Daniels. I mean, it's not surprising when he scores 20 points in a game and also does what he does. Dort is a great pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Not in the way that people necessarily like the low hanging fruit with him was, well, he's just got to shoot a lot of threes and make more threes. And the Cavs were like, you can shoot some more threes and it would be helpful. But how about we redesign our offense, enable you as a passer? And how about you just beat the hell out of people inside and get super aggressive and physical?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So the incredible thing about Oklahoma City's defense is... Dort is going to be their all-defense representative. I actually think I would have Jalen Williams on as well. I think I would have two Thunder players on as well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You can look at a lot of the metrics and the metrics will tell you the Thunder have three better defensive players on their roster than those two guys. And none of the three, Hartenstein, Holmgren, and Caruso, are eligible for awards because of games played and minutes played. But the statistics scream out that those guys would be in this conversation too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it's like, oh my God, how many... Well, you didn't mention Wallace. And Wallace is terrifying. Yeah, Wallace is another one. Wallace is like... He and Jalen Williams, you don't see a lot of guys who will just... I'm just going to swipe at the ball constantly because I can do it without fouling you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And they just, when they're in the mood or whatever, they're just like, I'm going to go for every time you dribble the ball, I'm going to try to get the ball from you. And it's unnerving.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Uh, okay. I'm going to go, um, I'm going to go crossroads player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I'm going to go with Carl Anthony Towns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Now, to some degree, I think Towns crossed the crossroads, so to speak. Did he? Last year in the Denver series. And I even wrote about it on ESPN about, you know, all of a sudden the turnovers were down. The fouls were down. There was a calmness and a steadiness to his game that combined with his shot making was
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it's really worked. And I just those those things jump out. Sorry, you asked an open ended question. I haven't talked into a microphone in a long time. I got a lot of takes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
were like, okay, this is the guy that we've seen in the regular season, and this is the guy we've been waiting for.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He guarded Durant really well, considering the sort of stylistic differences between them in the first round when Minnesota beat the hell out of Phoenix, despite Phoenix having a roster that only three teams in the NBA wouldn't trade for or wouldn't trade with, according to Matt Ishbia. You love that. I do. And then he sputtered again against the Mavs in the conference finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Then he averaged 19 points. He shot poorly. And then he gets traded in this just massive total shift of his life from he found a way to thrive next to a real behemoth center and Rudy Gobert, who could do all the dirty work on defense around the rim that he's not very good at.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And now he is almost a full-time center now for the Knicks, who are living the benefits of that on offense and feeling the pain of it on defense. And Mitchell Robinson just hasn't played enough minutes yet that we can see sort of how that pairing works. And I'm actually surprised Tibbs has not used it much, even when Mitchell Robinson has been available for 15, 18 minutes a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I thought we'd see more of it just to see, can we replicate some of what happened in Minnesota, even if that means like, a little bit less of one of the core wing guys who have all been good to great for the Knicks this year. Brunson's got to get healthy. We all know that. The team is dead in the water without him. They're a spectacular offensive team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
In Brunson's absence, you've talked a lot about this. I've talked a lot about this with people behind the scenes this year. They weren't using Bridges enough. You don't trade all that stuff for Bridges if you're not going to lean into him as a secondary ball handler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Even when he's the third, fourth, or fifth best guy on the floor, he has that skill set that you should swing the ball for him to do. Hey, do an inverted Mikael Bridges, Jalen Brunson pick and roll.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
swing into a mckill bridges towns pick and roll just involve him more now they've had to he's thrived yeah who could have believed that a guy he used to average 23 24 a game would actually know what to do if you ran a play for him and he's even gotten to the free throw line a little bit he's averaging like three and a half three free throws a game since brunson went out which feels like an avalanche compared to the almost zero he was averaging before yeah um but
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I do think they've been almost written off, I think, as a real threat to Cleveland. Boston is a different story. Boston is a nightmare matchup for them. I think the Knicks are better than... I'm higher on this team than consensus, despite the obvious limitations of Towns in the middle. I think they were the biggest threat to Boston last season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Obviously, they've completely remade their team since then. Yeah. Now, they might have a very interesting first round. They will have a very interesting first round series, either against an upstart Pistons team or maybe even the remnants of the Bucs. The remnants of the Bucs. I think there's a great team in here somewhere, even as is
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And a lot of that has to do with Towns finding a way to still contribute on offense when teams do what they're going to do, which is put wings on him and put their centers on Josh Hart. And his production in those scenarios has been uneven. And just can he do enough defensively to survive with all the help around him? You could argue he crossed the crossroads last year. He kind of did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
This is a new team, new setting, new expectations. As good or better, I think, than the Minnesota team he was on last year. And I just, you know, let's see how it looks. And is the Robinson thing still a wild card that we could see a little bit more of in the playoffs? Or is it just too late for that? I'm curious about that, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Wasn't that opening night? And it was just like, this is a, the Celtics, I think it was opening night and Missoula came out with a game plan that was like game one of a playoff series between the Celtics and the Knicks. Just let's exploit every advantage we have, including overtowns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And you think it's surprising that it was so it's, it got to Paul George has to cancel his podcast. It's so bad levels.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
If he doesn't show up in the playoffs, his legacy is tarnished forever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And if they win the title... Did you waver from he's the best guy on the team at any point? I know Jalen Brown won finals MVP.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He was number one on my legacy, on my list of guys to potentially take for this category, just because if you are the best player ever, and you win finals MVP, and you break the no-repeat streak that the NBA is in right now, and you do it emphatically, you become a two-time champion, a back-to-back champion on the Boston Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think you catapult up into different historical kinds of conversations. I think he's going to get there anyway because he's still so... He's right in the meat of his prime. His career has so many years left. His career numbers, if he stays healthy, are going to be outrageous across the board. He's just become... a better all-around player year to year, every year, in every possible way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Six assists a game this season in his career. His defense is always good. You never have to ask Jason Tatum to play hard on defense, to play smart on defense, to take tough matchups, to guard up in size, to do whatever the team needs him to do. He's just an awesome player. You don't win the title without being mentally tough. They are mentally tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think there's been periods of this season where... Their offense has not, I mean, Ryan, I've heard him call it hunt happy, where they just kind of settle into old patterns and the patterns are effective, but you feel them just sort of just settling for the sake of settling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
When they don't do that, when they mix in the hunting of the small guys, which if they get a Halliburton or a Garland or whoever is going to be a huge part of every Brunson of every series that they could possibly be in a Dame, if knock on wood, Dame can get healthy. When they mix that in with, don't forget you have a pick and pop big man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Don't forget we have all these other off-ball actions that we can run. They become very, very hard to guard and he's at the apex of all that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
All right. Someone's got to do it. I'll just go to the trade machine category. No. I left this for you. Someone's got to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Haven't talked about Giannis yet. Let's talk about Giannis. Oh!
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
No, I mean, we can do the Durant thing. We can do the what does Boston do with its payroll thing going forward.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Like, that's all fun. We've all done that stuff. The Bucs just exist right now in this purgatory of... I think even with Dame, even with Portis coming back, even with Kuzma integrated into the lineup, it just felt like just not good enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I'm a Damian Lillard true believer. He's been on my MVP ballot multiple times when I've had an MVP ballot on average higher than other than he was in sort of the aggregate voting in those seasons. I think he's one of the greatest leaders the NBA has had in a long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'm surprised when I look at his stats from this year and I see how good they are because I haven't felt that level of terror and impact from him as consistently as the stats would suggest. And maybe that's just me unfairly, not unfairly, maybe that's just my brain watching the Bucs and being like, There's just too much Kyle Kuzma happening. Torian Prince has been awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Just too much Torian Prince happening. They're too dependent on Brook Lopez being awesome. They aren't good enough, I don't think. And I don't think they've been... There's no evidence that they're good enough other than you just don't want to see Giannis ever in a playoff series. And if it just ends up that they aren't good enough, You know, and right now they're sixth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And so I think that would manifest in Dame, no Dame, whatever it ends up being. They just lose. They lose to the Knicks in six games. They don't have home court. The Knicks have been better than them all year. Whatever. I'd have to look deeper into that series about what the matchups would be and who would guard Giannis and who Giannis would guard and who would guard Towns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Giannis would probably guard Towns a lot, all that. You know, they don't really have a lot of pathways to just revamp the team completely in a way that makes sense. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
As a team or as individual players? Individuals. Um... You're springing this one on me. I know. Well, you know I was going to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I don't want to spoil our coming talk. Reeves is going to make an all-star team at some point, if not multiple all-star teams. Reeves is very, very good. Um, I've been impressed until, you know, it's been a little rocky the last couple of weeks, but I liked at least offensively how cat has attacked his season in New York. Yeah. Um, I was a Cade stockholder.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I actually think Cade's level of improvement has been maybe a little overblown, but he's been awesome. And he's probably going to make an all NBA team this year. That's been fun to watch. And I know that you are just, I've, I've listened enough to know that you just enjoy the fact that the Pistons, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
want to fight everybody every night and including a potentially very dangerous one in Minnesota the other night involving all the usual, like round up the usual suspects. And here we are. So those are some. The fight in Brooklyn Nets were fun for a minute. The Clippers. We're going to talk about the Clippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I remember when they were in the finals last year and they were up 2-1, 3-1. You know, I wrote a big for Grantland. I wrote a big profile about Warford back in the day. I remember that. And I just started calling. I thought about maybe I should write something. Maybe I could work it into the Celtics with the championship piece. And it ultimately died on the vine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But I started calling just like Joe Kim Noah, Kyle Korver, Billy Donovan, Kenny Atkinson, Mike Budenholzer, suspecting that they were all watching the finals with more of an emotional investment than you would think considering the distance between them. Yeah. and Hal Horford, and they were all dying for him to finally win the championship. I mean, they were all over the moon for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Billy Donovan was like texting me from Europe being like, do you need a quote? You know, here's like, like they just love that guy. Every stop on his career, all those people were watching the finals being like, this guy deserves to win the championship. And you just don't see that as much anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I'll go crossroads guy. Trey Young, you know... This is funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't know. I'm going to allow it. I'm going to allow it. No, I could be a trade machine guy. You can't be a feel-good guy. So I don't know. I mean, my feel-good guy... You know what? No, I'm not going to take Trey Young. My feel-good guy, I guess, will be Steph Curry because... This was the best-case scenario for Steph Curry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You just don't get... Even when you have the rare chances that the Warriors got as an elite team who had this gap year or gap years where they got to pick high in the draft, and they whiffed on the highest pick they had in Wiseman, you just don't get to contend for this long. And the most likely outcome for Steph... was always going to be he rides out to Twilight and Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
The most likely good outcome, good outcome, upside outcome, was he rides out to Twilight and Golden State on good, solid teams that don't really have a chance to win the championship, but they're good enough. They're 46, 48, 49 win teams that if they made the conference finals because of matchups and just excellence, luck, whatever, it's not surprising. It's kind of a fun team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
If you had told me the Clippers are going to be 43-32 in this four-team morass for 5-8, with Kawhi having played less than half the season, and look on a lot of nights like, oh... Like, is this a, do I, do I got to like get back into this again? Like, am I going to fall for the, the not fall for it, but that like, I don't see Ty lose name coming up a lot in coach of the year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I think because the Butler trade just fell into the league's lap, they're better than that. It's hard for me to see them winning the championship, but they're a pretty goddamn good team with him, with Butler. And I just think the Warriors are 18-5 with those two guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They're a threat to beat anybody in the West, maybe excepting Oklahoma City because they're just such a giant favorite to everybody else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I just think it's going to be awesome, assuming they make the top six, which is not guaranteed by any means, that we're going to see them play real meaningful games with real meaningful stakes where it's not just like, oh, this is kind of cute that Steph has a chance to win a first round series and we all know they're going to get destroyed in the next round. Like, it's not that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
This is a real team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I loved it for them right from the start. I saw it was completely risk-free.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
One peg down, the Darius Garland situation also could have gone sideways. And the rumblings around that were about his, I won't say unhappiness, but the uncertainty of whether this was really going to be the place for him with Donovan Mitchell having superseded him as the alpha guy in the backcourt. Those were true. And he's figured it out. He got healthy. They figured it out together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He's one of my favorite players to watch in the NBA. Deserved all-star. It's a great, great pick. Love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's like we're both scared. It's a sad conversation to have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'll go first. I mean... You know... Mike Budenholzer?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think he's just sitting in a pool of lava. A, he's a proven good coach. And B... Are you that embarrassing that you're just going to have a new coach every single year? Just going to keep doing this? You're not going to give any coach any time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And, and I think that he at least should be like in the, in the third place, second place talk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I mean, I could think of like three names. That's fine. Not even counting the teams that aren't making the playoffs. I'm just looking at playoff teams. Wow. Okay, make the case. I have a feeling I know the case, but I want to hear you make the case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You don't think so? You don't think the bench has been utilized enough? There was a game in December. I think it was December where I didn't watch the game. I looked at the box score the next day. They beat the Hornets by 24 points. I think the final score is 125-101. I don't obviously 24 game, 24 point game can be semi close. It's points, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
McHale bridges. Someone could fact check me on this. I'm going from the top of my head, played the first 46 minutes and 30 seconds of the game consecutively in a game. The Knicks won by 24 points. Yeah. And I was like, how, how is that even, how's that even allowed? Like, I don't like that anyway. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Let me defend the offensive creation. Creation is maybe the wrong word because the Bridges thing has been underutilized until now, in part because the Towns Brunson thing is so unguardable. So Tibbs has been, and all the Tibbs backers around the league will tell you, His teams have performed better offensively than his reputation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He's had a lot of top 10 offenses in Minnesota, Chicago, elsewhere. And even though he's been pigeonholed as this defensive mastermind behind the 2008 Celtics and other great defensive teams, the Bulls with Noah and Gibson and all those guys. And that's true. They're right. And almost all of those offenses have been of just the complete brute force variety. Like we just don't turn the ball over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We're number one or two in offensive rebounding. We're number one or two in free throws. And we just beat the hell out of you. We just we isolate. We play simple basketball, low risk basketball, and we beat the hell out of you. This team still has some of that in, but it's not built to be a great offensive rebounding team. It's not built to be a beat the hell out of you team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It is built to have a Josh Hart runs the ball down your throat six times a game team. But I do. I. You can quibble with the Bridges thing, and I think you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
That's definitely right. But I do think it was interesting and smart how... he decided to use towns as a passing hub very early on in the season. They have a lot of artful cutting in their offense because of the way towns lifts the opposing center off. If the center is guarding him, bridge is a good cutter in an OB is a good Carter heart is a great cutter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And he leaned into that in a way that I think was smart and made their offense a little bit more unpredictable than Brunson pounding the ball and cat pounding post-ups and just spamming pick and pops, which I think they could always run more pick and pops with those guys. I, I, Early in the season, I was like, this is different than I envisioned it. And he's built an elite offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Now he's got elite offensive talent, no doubt, but he's constructed an elite offense that doesn't look anything like and doesn't project statistically anything like the other elite offenses that he's had before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's true. It's true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, so I think that's the most likely outcome, right? Is like the Celtics beat them 4-1, maybe 4-2. And is that a failure? Or do you say, well, you know, we made this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, can I just name another coach?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Let me be very clear. I'm a little rusty on this one. Let me be very clear for the aggregators. This coach is not in any danger of being fired. This coach's seat is ice cold. This coach was in the Coach of the Year conversation last year. I think he was number two on my ballot, and he was on pace to be that high this year before injuries struck his team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We are long past the point where the Orlando Magic's offense, despite Suggs being out, despite Anthony being out, despite Mo Wagner being out, all of that, it just should not be this bad. It's so bad and so unwatchable and so uncreative that at some point, someone in what remains of the basketball media in Orlando has to gently ask the question of like, So what's the idea for this offense?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And now the idea might be we trade a lot of... Why are we 0.78 points per possession? The idea might be we trade a lot of stuff for a guard that can create a lot of the offense. We don't have that. The idea might be we trade a lot of stuff for a center that is either a threat diving to the basket, a threat popping for threes, a threat as a passer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They don't really have a guy who's a really good threat at any of those things. Oh, God. Um... So those are all fair answers, too. But the coaching staff has just got no scrutiny for the fact that this offense stinks and it stinks no matter who's on the court. And it's they're like 27th in offense. And I know their guys were hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I know that they had injuries that it takes those oblique things for Franz and Paolo. It takes time to recover from them. They still stink now offensively. It's like it's it's they scored 87 points last night against the Clippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Can we just, can we just at least have a meeting about it where we're like, Maybe we need to bring in an assistant who does this really well. Can we at least talk about it? When is the expiration date on the Magic or like a feel-good story? Are we done with that yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Can we treat them like a real team now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I would advise Wolves fans to not check his playoff stats, which are in very few games, but still.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I mean, I was just going to pick Luka because it's been the subplot of the fascinating plot of the season is Luka Doncic plays for the Los Angeles Lakers. He plays for LeBron James. He led his team to the finals last year in the conference finals two years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You know, look, we don't need to get into the trade or the off-court whatever issues that are, you know, just are what they are and have been what they have been. I don't think he's looked like a, a, a plus Luca yet in LA almost at all. Um, he still looks a little slower than usual to me. And he's not a speed guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It was really exciting. And it was really exciting. He shot tons of threes. His two point field goal percentage is down. His turnovers are up. And a lot of that is just learning. new system, new city, new teammates, new world. Like the best player of a generation is over here and I'm on his team. And I think they've all bought into the right things. He's been very good for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He would make an all-star team. He would make an all-NBA team. He would probably make first team all-NBA for sure. I don't know for sure, but he would make first team all-NBA if he were healthy and playing this exactly the way he's played for the Lakers. He's almost a first team all-NBA caliber player, if not definitely so.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I wouldn't have done it from whose perspective I would have done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
If I worked in the Mavs front office, I think I would be fired. No, I think, I think Nico Harrison would have fired me or I, because I would have just, I would have thrown everything I had against this trade and they would have found me annoying and an irritant. I do. I do think, you know,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
a robust discussion within the magistrate office occurred at some point, but, but I just, but I thought only three people knew about the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I can't believe he's on the Lakers. And right away you framed it, not you did. A lot of people framed it correctly as like, wow, they've got the bridge, the bridge to the post LeBron era, which they did not have before. They have the best possible unimaginable version of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I think in the shock of the trade and the realization that the Lakers had found yet another generational superstar to carry the generational superstar torch, I think it took like a week or 10 days for people to be like, oh, wow. This team's kind of good. This team's kind of interesting and dangerous, and they can play different styles and different lineups with no center.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's like we've all... I think starting with Wade and LeBron, there's just been this overthinking of, well, you just can't pair two ball-dominant guys. Even though that duo obviously succeeded at a crazy level. That's LeBron James. It's a different story. LeBron James in his prime. They're not just two ball-dominant guys. They're two of the five greatest passers maybe ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And they're two ball dominant guys with very good to elite post-up games. And that's the kind of thing that Phoenix and all its ball dominant guys does not have. They don't have guys who can change the geometry of the floor in tons of different ways by getting to spots on the floor that with a bully ball game that those two guys have. Let alone the transition game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, and you know what I've loved that the Lakers have done? If you watch their rotations carefully, Luka's the one who gets the solo minutes. Reeves and LeBron will be on the bench together. And almost all the time LeBron is out there, if Luka's resting, Reeves is also playing with LeBron. So LeBron does not have to do the heavy lifting by himself ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I know he's been, by his standards, unproductive as a scorer lately, by his incredible standards. I think that is the only avenue to set them up for short-term success was to lift the burden on LeBron to that degree and unlock all this other stuff that we talked about earlier that they're doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think this is a really dangerous team that if Luka can rediscover a Luka form, I never want to see that guy in a playoff series. And they got a lot of stuff going on right now that's interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Phoenix fans are so mad that their scoring trio just didn't even pop up in either of our brains. Also mad Sacramento Kings fans who are like, well, what about the Zach Levine, DeMar DeRozan, DeMonta Sabonis trio? Can we talk about that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
What's your next pick? Levine was going to be one of my... I don't know what categories we have left, but Levine was going to be a third banana pick for me as well. Oh, do it right now. Just because...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
what a what a catastrophic year for a franchise that seemed to have finally veered out of the catastrophe lane and just was like you know what we want we want we want to go right back to it let's just fire the coach did you like what they got in the Fox trade at all They got some okay draft equity.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I mean, if you're going to have to trade a guy to get an all-star, and Zach Levine has been an all-star, and some draft equity is fine. The fact that they fired the coach, the fact that they pissed him off so much, and now he's talked about it on record in a couple of different places.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He's like, yeah, they fired the coach and they left me to hang out to dry and made it look like it was my fault and I actually liked the coach. And like, what's wrong with our organization? Not great when an ex-player who you just traded who was like a beloved part of your team is like a week later being like, oh yeah, that's a circus over there, basically. And they get Levine back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And Levine in a lot of these games just feels... like almost an afterthought. And he's averaging 21 a game, which is actually not a lot for him. His assist to turnover ratio has gotten like perilously close to even with the Kings. And it just feels like between DeRozan and Sabonis and now Monk coming off the bench, I realized like for Levine to be worth it
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
he's not a great passer and he's a minus defender. He's got to take a lot of shots and it feels like he is sort of semi predictably, I guess, trying to feel out like, how do I fit in here? Or the coaches are trying to figure out that he just hasn't been the explosion of productivity that the numbers in Chicago suggested he would be. And yeah,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You know, don't you feel like the Kings and the Bulls are destined to keep just keep trading these guys among each other?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Oh, yeah. And they end up taking Nick Stauskas. Stauskas, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Um, think that's fair uh they're actually they've actually been outscored with lebron luca and reeves all on the floor together and yet by the and that's mostly because of defense I think all those guys are bought in to the right kind of style on offense. I've talked to some of their coaches about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He should be flattered to be still in a crossroads given his health situation. And I love Kawhi.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Okay. Unless you have it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, I think the Paul George decision, which looks like a stroke of genius in retrospect, even though they did offer him a three year, 100, whatever, $50 million deal. I remember talking about that and saying like, yeah, it's great. They've signed all these nice role players and, you know, Harden's back and.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
to make that decision signals to me that you don't think the team as presently constructed can win a championship. If you thought it could win a championship, you'd go all in and they didn't go all in. So I don't think they entered this season necessarily expecting to be in this kind of conversation that we're talking about now. It's like they can go toe to toe with people. And here they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They're a really well-balanced team. Like I love, you know, Powell and Chris Dunn go out and in comes another defender and Derek Jones Jr. to replace Dunn and another score in Bogdanovich to replace Powell. I think my hottest Clipper take is that Evita Zubats belongs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't think he's going to make third team all NBA for me, but you need to have him on the list of guys that you've considered for third team all NBA, along with James Harden is making a late push. Is he making a late push for you? He's making a late push.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
uh, that hasn't been picked. Um, you can pick between Amin Thompson and OGN and Obi.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
What else? The guy's an absolute freak. I mean, just the plays he makes are ridiculous. Um, I couldn't like him anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They're very, very excited by some of the off-ball stuff, by some of the motion that those guys have bought into. And I do... I mean, three to four series is going to be hard for a team with a 40-year-old. And once you get by the first round, it's every other day, relentlessly the whole way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I had a front office person, not Rockets, just yesterday, literally yesterday, I was talking about it because this is what I do. I talk about, I'm in Thompson, I guess, said he's the best athlete in the NBA, full stop. And his brother might be the second best athlete in the NBA. So they're the best athletes in the NBA. Jesus. And they play the right way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And he's just... We haven't seen one of those in a while where a guy comes off the bench, another guy gets hurt, he gets elevated into the starting five, and it's immediately clear. He's never coming off the bench again. This other guy's not a starter anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Wild card? I'm going to just zig right away from that and go with related Jamal Murray. Jamal Murray might be the biggest wild card in the NBA the first two months of the season. plus the Olympics, plus the way last season ended, was like, uh-oh. As great as Jokic is, as great as the Aaron Gordon fit is, as steady as Michael Porter Jr.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
jumper is, as improved as Christian Brown, who belongs in the Most Improved Player conversation too, as improved as he is, They can't win four playoff series without Jamal Murray being the Jamal Murray who was the second best guy in a title team two years ago or something close to that. And he's been pretty damn good now for the next two and a half months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But they have a level, at least for an isolated period of time, maybe not six weeks, eight weeks, but I wouldn't count it out either. But they have a level... I'm a believer like they're they're a strange team because they're huge. Like they sometimes play three. They basically start three power forwards in a center.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
A little bit quieter lately than he was when he started really rolling and putting up 30s and 40s and even I think he had a 50. They need fully... If they have that guy, 28 a game Jamal Murray, killer Jamal Murray... mid-range assassin Jamal Murray. I wouldn't sleep on these guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't think they quite have enough to win the championship, even if they get him, because I just think their bench is too much of a wild card and their defense hasn't been good enough. But we know they're tough. We know they have one of the greatest players of all time, if not maybe the best player. I still would rank him the best player right now, even if I didn't vote him MVP.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
If they get that Jamal Murray, I wouldn't want to play them if I were any of these teams, including Oklahoma City.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I mean, Jokic isn't a wildcard. Jokic isn't a wildcard, but I know exactly what I'm going to get from him almost every game. And sometimes I'll get a 30-20-20. Who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'm so glad you brought up the Pacers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Maybe they wear the uniforms.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
There was a traumatized kid in the Wolves crowd. They gave him a jersey and he was like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Sometimes when they take the center out, they basically replace him with another power forward to the power forward size. Guys are two of the five greatest passers. in recent, if not all time history of the NBA. Hachimura has been great for them. Vincent has been great in the last month. Finney Smith has been great. Their non-center lineups have been, been tough to deal with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Love it. He's on third team all NBA for me right now on the ballot that I don't have. He's played even above that for quite a bit of the season now. they're just a really good team. I mean, I don't have their schedule in front of me, but they start, they were under 500, maybe 20 games into the season or thereabouts. And since then have been a legit, very good team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
The Cavs series would be interesting. The Cavs are a little bigger than they are on the front line. But Siakam's really good. Turner's good. Obi Toppin feels like he hasn't missed a shot in a month now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Look, they've got Turner's free agency hanging over their head. Yeah. And the tax implications of that someone I've seen it suggested, well, they could just dump OB top. I'm like, that guy's good. He's been good for their team. I would dumping OB top and there's pain. They're just a they're a rock solid team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And if you're not healthy or you're don't bring your a game, they can beat you four times in seven games. And Halliburton is just a guaranteed good offense by almost by himself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Covered a lot of ground.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We talked about him a lot, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We can't call him either of the bananas. He's above a lot of these things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And they just have those two nasty Terminator passing chess master dudes at the top of it. Like I wouldn't want to, they beat the Rockets last night and like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to play them. I would think hard about picking them over essentially the, Any team but the Thunder in the playoffs. And I don't think the Thunder love that matchup either and have not loved that matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We're workshopping. I'm about to spend the next three hours recording different welcome to's just to make sure I get it exactly right from Monday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
No, you said TBD. That's good. We'll see. We'll see. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. Playoffs are going to be fun. We're almost there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Much appreciated across the board and look forward to a lot of good content over the next few months before the NBA chills out for a bit again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And by the way, you mentioned LeBron. A lot of concern about, you know, his up and down play since he came back from another injury. Yeah. A couple of games where like the double digit streak seemed to be in semi jeopardy for a hot second. Like all fair, fine. A, he's 40. B... Like, remember, he guarded Jokic in the playoffs a couple of years ago and guarded him pretty well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it was like a six or eight minute stretch. And that's like all they could ask of him. Last night, JJ Redick can go to this 40 year old dude and be like, we just need you to guard Shingun for maybe the entire game. Can you can you go do it? And he's like, yeah, I'll bang. I'll bang with him the whole game. Like, that's right. Deserves a lot of credit for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
if one to eight, if, if the play, if the, if the seven and eight seeds come out of this group of Clippers, Minnesota Warriors, Grizzlies that are all jostling for those places. And one of the Dallas Sacramento Phoenix brigade of losers does not like somehow sneak in to one of those spots. Every round one series is going to be,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
a battle featuring a team that you could talk yourself into winning other than maybe Memphis, the way Memphis is sliding right now. But they have an upside that's pretty high, too. And by the way, can we just say before we get to it, because I don't know how much time we're going to talk about them. How embarrassing is it that the Phoenix Suns cannot catch for 10th
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Either the Kings, who can't beat anybody right now, or the Mavericks, who finally got some of their players back, but have largely had like no players. And the Suns still can't catch them. And I know you and Russo have talked about how pathetic they've looked defensively in a lot of games, how disengaged they've looked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But like these teams are begging, begging to become, these teams have been the equivalent of Eastern Conference play-in teams for like a month, which is a horrible insult to Levy at any Western Conference team. And the Suns are like, we still can't catch you. We can't catch you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Speaking of that, how many emails did the league send Danny Ainge before they finally had to find the jazz. One of the great parlor games of the season has been looking at the jazz box score every night and being like, all right, so who didn't play? And yesterday it was Walter Kessler, Walker Kessler, DNP returned to conditioning. Lowry Mark is Lowry marketing dead.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Also...
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe Show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts. Let's go.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
Before Greedo walks in, he's like, yes.
The Rewatchables
‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan
He's catching so many strains on his body.
The Zach Lowe Show
Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.
I've missed you. Have you? Have you really?
The Zach Lowe Show
Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.
Get up, Carl!
The Zach Lowe Show
Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.
And how did you forget Ballgate? Oh, Ballgate!
The Zach Lowe Show
Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.
Yes. And Giannis had... What did he have? I forget what... It was a career high, right, in points. Like, he had a... It was something like that. And then... Oh, Ballgate. Oh! I forgot ball gate.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
You're listening to the Zach Lowe show sponsored by FanDuel. America's number one sports book has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game. That's right now. Even after tip off, just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sports book app and build your bet slip. Then sit back,
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I saw that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
It's Steph, Tatum, Dame, the Cleveland guys, and it's been up the last few years. And it was part of the conversation at the GM's meeting yesterday, although it got overshadowed by other topics to get to, is like, you know, 82 games, plus like, we're just going to completely change the rules in the playoffs to allow football basically.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Plus the rest gets shorter in the second round than it is in the first round. And plus the game is just more spaced out, more movement, more cuts, more threes, more everything than it used to be. It's too anecdotal to draw firm conclusions, but is there a discussion to be had here about how physical the games have gotten in the playoffs?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Or, I mean, it's like a third rail issue for the players union and the league, but like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
it's time to talk about it's 82 games is too many games like they're just we don't need 82 games other than that's what they get the pool of money from and everyone is afraid to think about if the pool of money shrinks would it get bigger eventually with the new tv deal with an expansion fee with every regular season game meaning more but like every year we get to the playoffs now it feels like every season is just who gets injured the least in may and june wins the title
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Hamstrings, just hamstrings upon hamstrings upon calves. Just calves, whatever the proper word is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And the Emirates Cup, baby. Emirates Cup, Milwaukee Bucks, 2025 Emirates Cup.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I mean, are you even ready for these kind of discussions? This is obviously like JT is he plays every game. He's he is an Ironman. And last night, look, the Celtics were already down seven and kind of teetering when he got hurt. But he was having one of the greatest games of his career, pretty much on par with game six in Milwaukee to save their season in 2022.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, the other big topic at the GM's meeting, from what I was told, was tanking and whether the lottery reforms have succeeded or failed. And boy, let me tell you, Bill Simmons, did all of that discussion amp up times 100 when the lottery results came in last night. I was in the room for the 10th or 11th time. Yeah, let's hear it. Take the floor. Clear out. Tell us what happened.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
So, like, I'm kind of... I was like, I've done this enough times. Like, I don't need to be in the room again. Hey, maybe I'll just do it. It's fun. You get you get you're sequestered with these people there. They have like Sam Presti has to talk to me for 10 minutes because we have no nothing else to do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And he's there, by the way, just as he sat with the media in the gallery because there was no spot for Oklahoma City. He's there just in case they get.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And boy, did he have a roller coaster of emotions, as did everybody with the Sixers. And I am so glad I went, because this was, bar none, the most insane... Like, the amount of murmuring and whispering and, like, looks around the room during the lottery drawing, which is normally silent, was unprecedented. Unprecedented. What, do you just want me to go?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And they start with one. That's what people don't realize. In the room, they don't go backwards. They don't go four to one. They start with the four, the first four gets the number one pick.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
You can try because they have a whole you have this whole for YouTube people, this whole sheet of paper with all the combinations and who who belongs, what four number combinations belong to which team. And you can see the team guys like riffing through it. So basically, all the worst teams, Utah, Washington, poor Washington. Poor Joe House. Just unbelievable. Have all the ones, twos, and threes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
All right. So the first ball comes up 10. And we've lived this movie before where a high number comes up. Everybody's in play with the high numbers. Second ball is 14, which is the highest number. And now there's now there's like, oh, like what? Like now it's just everyone is still in play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Then 11 comes up is the third ball. And at that point, either at that point or sometime during the second drawing, Justin Zanuck, who is representing the Jazz and Will Dawkins, who is representing the Wizards. I think Justin looked at Will and was like, oh, oh, shit. Like, this is not this thing. This is the level of murmuring that was going on. Like, oh, this is not going well for us.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Game 750, whatever, against Philly in a blowout. That's how good he was. And it's just What can you say? The guy plays every game. He plays hard. He plays both ends. He's a beloved player. If this is what it is, it really sucks. This sucks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
10, 14, 11. So I looked at the sheets today. Here was what was in. Now there's like this delicious 20 seconds where everything's in play. Almost everything. If the number, if the last ball was a six, Blazers win the lottery. If the last ball was a one, Wizards win the lottery. If the last ball was a two, Pelicans win the lottery. If the last ball is a three, Brooklyn wins the lottery.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
If the last ball is a four, Toronto wins the lottery. If the last ball is a seven, Mavs. If the last ball is an eight, the Bulls win the lottery. If the last ball is a nine, the Kings win the lottery. And here's the kicker. If the last ball is a five, a 12, or a 13, the Spurs win the lottery for the second time in three years.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
The Spurs actually had the best odds in that 30 seconds of winning the lottery. So it's like 22% odds? Yeah. Which, by the way, did you see the hockey lottery that was broadcast on? I don't know. Maybe ESPN. I don't know who did it. They broadcast the actual like as the TV shows. Yeah, they did. They did. This is the TV show. And they had a big board updating the odds after every ball came up.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Like they had the percentages for the number one pick and they would change. That was really cool. The broadcast itself was a little problematic. But anyway, the Spurs actually had the best chance. And so Matt Riccardi was representing the Mavs. Matt, I don't know what his title is with them as he's been a scout for a long time. He was a scout in Brooklyn for a long time. I know Matt pretty well.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
So I'm talking to him afterwards and he goes and Andre Patterson was representing the Blazers. They were sitting next to each other and Andre confirmed this. During those 20 seconds, Matt Riccardi, representing the Mavs, turned to Andre and said, it's going to be a seven. Now, you can say that like it's bravado. It's going to be a seven. It's going to be us.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And Andre was like, well, if it's a six, it's us. And then it turns seven. And the whole room pauses because only a couple of people realize it's Dallas. And a league lawyer is combing this big easel that has all the combinations. And he says, Dallas. And in that moment, It was not an eruption because it's impolite to erupt with like they're already starting the second drawing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Everybody was dying of laughter, like muffling their laughter, looking at each other like, are you kidding me? The Dallas Mavericks. So it was like that incredulous crowd sound. Just so incredulous that it didn't even dawn on anybody that Philly has now been potentially knocked down.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
It dawned on Sam Presti for sure that Philly, who needed to be in the top six and entered at five, has now seen a team jump them. OK, so everyone is like, oh, my God, are you kidding me? And the jokes afterwards were great. I'll get to that. Okay, ball two. Or drawing two. So Dallas is now one. First ball, 12. Okay, high number. Second ball, 13. At this point...
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Ned Cohen, who's representing the Sixers, the Jazz people, the Wizards people, the Hornets people are all just like, I don't even care anymore. Just give me a one or two and a three. So no one else jumps up from the bottom and knocks us all down. They're like rooting for each other at this point. All the crap teams are like, whatever. If it's you, that's great. If it's you, that's great.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
It just can't be another team knocking us all down. 12, 13, 11, 5 Spurs. Everyone's like, are you, like, again, the Spurs? They get the number two pick. Then you start thinking about Giannis. Like, the Spurs actually, to me, become a more likely. I'm not saying likely.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I'm just saying their chances of really sniffing around Giannis as a trade target, I think, go up with the number two pick versus number one. And I think they definitely are like, we're just keeping Cooper Flagg. He's amazing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I think the door is ajar, but just a little, at least a little ajar. So the Spurs get two. Everyone is like, well, they just got Wemby, they almost got Flag, now they're two. And then it dawns on everybody, oh my God, Philly is fucked. Philly's down, two teams have jumped.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
They're down to seven. Presti is well aware of this, I'm sure, sitting in the front row, delighted that his odds of getting a top 10 pick have just skyrocketed. And everyone is now digesting that worst case scenario for Philly has unfolded. This is like what a cataclysm for this franchise that has endured so much, much of which has been self-inflicted. Would you have even gone if you were Daryl?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
So here's the scene. OK, so so Philly ends up being drawn next. Yeah. Which ends up like the gasps like, oh, it was like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. Right. And their their guy, Ned Cohen, who worked for the league for a long time and has been to many lotteries is like a league person. went from just distraught to euphoric in the span of 15 seconds. We're completely sure.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app and if you don't already have it download the fandle app today to make every moment more the ringer is committed to responsible gaming please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details must be 21 and over in present and select states gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And then afterwards, then we all watch the show, right? We all watch the show knowing the results, which is delightful because you know that guy is about to get their heart broken. That guy on TV is about to go crazy. And let me tell you, usually... The show is background noise and everyone's eating and mingling. There's food. No one's really paying attention.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Everybody was wrapped silent watching the show, bracing for what is the reaction in the room going to be when Dallas wins the lottery? Just wrapped. And so we're watching the show. And Kevin DeGande says, and with that, Philadelphia loses its traffic. And everyone in the room starts laughing because, A, we know that's not true. We know what's coming next.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And B, we all went through the same emotional ups and downs as Kevin DeGande. And then I go up to the ballroom afterwards and Daryl's there looking down.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Yeah, like a little almost haggard. Yeah. Elton Brand is FaceTiming with someone celebrating. Nick Nurse is there. Like, this is the best thing that's happened to Nick Nurse in a year and a half in Philly. And they tell me, like, they all heard Kevin DeGande say that. And Nick Nurse and Elton Brand were like, oh, my God, we're screwed. Because they can hear the broadcast.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
They're like, oh, my God, we're screwed. Daryl was so intense that he told me and Nick told me, like, he didn't even realize that Kevin DeGande had said that. Like, he just tuned it out completely and then grew confused. Like, there was this moment of, like, are we screwed? Are we not screwed? And then they weren't. So it was just an absolutely wild conversation.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
wild scene um so what were the philly ping pong balls then philly philly ping pong balls are three seven five ten which it's probably the ten that gets it for them and then charlotte comes forth knocking utah to fifth and washington to sixth and those guys just have to put on a brave face and say like well we knew like 50 chance we would be five or six and meanwhile it's like oh my god
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
So other than some Mavs jokes, which were which were good. Yeah, we got to talk about that. Well, there were people in the room. I'm not going to say who were like, oh, Nico knew all along. Nico knew what he was doing all along. And then there was some jokes about defense wins championships because Cooper Flagg's pretty good defensive player. Then there was some jokes about Cooper Flagg.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I forgot this is a new balance guy. And does he not have the Mamba mentality because he's a new balance guy? And how's that going to go? Are they going to pass on it? Because that's the Mamba mentality. But the number one, the two big discussion points among the brain trust there afterwards were number one. I can't believe the West just got the first two picks in the lottery.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And how like how does the East and we lose Jason Tatum two hours later? Tatum's gone. Is Giannis going to go to the West potentially? Like how does the East keep lucking into this? And is it time to like? revisit 1-16 seeding or something. But the other one was, and this is what you're getting at, are these tanking rules a good idea? Because this is the consequence.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
This is what the league's teams voted for when they voted to reform the lottery in the wake of the Philly process. They voted for chaos. And then you get chaos. You get the Hawks jumping up to get Risa Shea from 9-1. You get Houston jumping from 9-3 last year with Brooklyn's pick or whatever they jumped. And now you get this. You get the Spurs again. You get the Mavs getting bailed out.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
The Mavs gift the Lakers a life raft for the post-LeBron era. which was supposed to be their own life raft for the next five to 10 years in the NBA, and then are gifted another life raft to replace the one they gifted the Lakers. And so this is chaos. This is what you voted for when you flatten the odds. Sometimes chalk is going to win, and a lot of times this is going to happen.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And the discussion afterwards was, you know, A, this is what you voted for. B, is it good? Is it good that the worst teams are increasingly going down the lottery? And C, is it good if those teams begin to realize incrementally, this tanking isn't working well enough for us to just shoot ourselves in the foot and put our fans through misery?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And is it worth it if the Utahs, Washington, Charlottes, who's ever in those positions,
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
sort of decides to be more competitive on a year-to-year basis which is the goal of this tanking reform which really has not materialized because these teams are still tanking to the point that the league is finding utah and it doesn't pay off so i look i i think on balance it's too early to judge the rules and some people who were shocked by the outcome by the chaos by decent teams picking so high in the draft are like hey hey this is what we voted for like this is what this is what you voted for and b
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
If it discourages tanking, is it still worth it? And it hasn't discouraged tanking yet, but maybe it will. That was the number one topic of discussion.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, he had the double whammy of ACL plus Achilles.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
They voted 29 to 1. And you remember who was the only dissenter, I think, was Oklahoma City. And Oklahoma City, their viewpoint on this, Pressy's viewpoint on this was, this is the only way small markets can get superstars. And you are minimizing our chances of doing it through lottery flattening. But this is what you voted for. You voted for chaos. You voted for more competitive balance.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And people are still like, is it good? Is it bad? And it was a big topic of discussion at the GM's meeting before this all happened.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I mean, they threw away like half of each of the previous two seasons and then all of this one.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Yeah, it was bad. Something really, really hard. 7-59 is sticking out of my head. Yeah, whatever it was.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
No, I'm OK with it. And I think I agree with one of the people in the room last night, a team person who said to me, you know, the point that some people tried to make in the GM's meeting was because the league was already sort of kicking around. Do we need to change this? Is this working? Is this not?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And a couple of people said, hey, like before we tweak this again, like tweak upon tweak upon tweak, can we just give it some time to see if it actually works? Can we can we enforce the player participation policy so that the Jazz get fined for sitting marketing before they've done it 10 times?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And like, can we can we lean on them a little bit more to like the John Collins went into like the witness protection program for two months? Nobody knew where he was.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And I tend to think, give it some time. This is what you voted for. I think discouraging... I think trying to thread the needle between discouraging the most abject, terrible tanking, but also still having a system where the worst teams have a better chance than the best lottery teams is picking high.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I think this is an admirable attempt to thread that needle that needs more time to see how teams respond to it. And obviously other other people have pitched more aggressive reforms like back in the real tanking debate you had. Should it just be completely random? Should all 30 teams have the same chance? Should we completely divorce record from draft position?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I've even people have gone the other way and said the best team should get the first pick. We should reward the best teams. There's obviously the wheel that Mike Zarin proposed and all that. My response to that, that's all stupid. My response to that has been you're going to like that idea.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
right up until the Durant Warriors get the number one pick in the draft or the Celtics right now get the number one pick in the draft. And then you're going to say, much like you were saying today with Dallas and San Antonio, but on a bigger scale, what in the hell have we wrought here? So I think this is a nice, balanced system that needs more time. And it's going to be chaotic some years.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And in some years, the Wizards are going to get the number one pick. I kind of like it. I just want to see it for a little bit longer.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Mahoney and I talked about it. Mahoney and I talked about it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I described it as suicidal.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Um, Yeah, I was trying to think of precedents. I mean, Durant is close but was older. Tatum just is barely 27 years old. They're smack dab in the middle of his prime with even more room to grow. Durant obviously came back as Kevin Durant. That's super encouraging. And like KD, Jason Tatum is big, not as big and tall as KD, and has a sweet jump shot, not as sweet as KD's. But he has...
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I heard you say that last night. I thought that was really interesting.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I thought that idea of San Antonio chasing the number one pick was interesting. More interesting to me almost if I'm putting myself in the Spurs shoes than trading the number two pick at a whole bunch of stuff for Giannis. But here, do you want to hear my snap reaction to this? All of the top three picks based on, you know, like everyone is still digesting this. I saw a bunch of people last night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I talked to a bunch of people. Here's my snap, like gut. Number one. I don't think Dallas is moving that pick for Giannis and probably not anybody. The vibe I've gotten is like they realize the life raft that they have been gifted and they're not going to mess with it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
This could all change depending on lots of different things, including Giannis is going to have an enormous amount of power dictating where he goes or working with Milwaukee. But I think Dallas realizes the gift they have been given. That's my gut.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
My gut at number two is it's a very interesting spot for the Spurs, and they're not going to take anything off the table in terms of possibilities for a bit here. There were people saying to me, Philly at number three. Is that a team that should consider moving that pick for a veteran, for a win-now move? I haven't talked to anybody there about it. My reaction would be absolutely 1,000% no.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I could not bet anything on Joel Embiid staying healthy, on Paul George's aging curve. I can certainly not bet. If I'm low on all the prospects, maybe. If I'm high on guys that are going to be available for there... At that spot, I am taking that. I'm taking whoever I like the best. I've got McCain. I've got Maxie. And I have a map to if Embiid is just never the guy again.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
If George gets old, I've got him. I am not cashing in chips. If George gets old. Well, if he continues to get goals.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Do you agree? I'm not doing anything. I'm not cashing in any future assets that are good to help this team. I'm not writing them off. I'm writing them as like, I just got to see it before I make any kind of move like that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Why would Orlando do that?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Yeah, but Franz is good and young and he's our guy. And if they love someone at three, I guess... I mean, that is the kind of guy you would have to think about it for because he's the right age.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
It's the right age.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I mean, we're 12 hours removed for 15 hours, whatever it is, from this chaos.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I think there's look, we're not doctors. We don't know. But I think there's a reason to hope that if this is the injury that it is and we don't know, it's 1036 central time now. I think there's a reason to be optimistic that he can come back as pretty much Jason Tatum. I mean, I wouldn't certainly wouldn't rule it out. And at least like like 95 percent of Jason Tatum, that would be the hope.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, and we've seen this before. We've seen him tiptoe to the edge.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
So we'll see. The timing to me ahead of the lottery was like, this feels a little bit like setting the stage, but we'll see. In terms of players available, some of it is going to depend on the playoffs, right? If Cleveland loses this series, how do they respond? If the Knicks make the finals, do they just end up standing pat at this point and not chasing a guy like Giannis?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I don't know if they could have gotten in there. Anyway, Miami, I don't know what they're going to do. Trae Young, any Trae Young players?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Something is going to happen in Memphis. I don't know what the possibilities realistically are. I mean, everyone's looking at the speculation will probably surround Morant, but I just don't know what his market is. And Triple J has got the big extension coming.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
It's interesting.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, I mean, these guys are still so young. I get it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
So the question would then be, first of all, they're 2-2 in this series after an awesome win on the road. I picked them to win the series in six, right? And I would say I'd probably pick them in seven. But let's say they have a decent chance to win the series, right? Like a 55-45 chance. So let's posit that. Are you throwing in, in this big trade, are you trying to keep J-Dub and Chet?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Or are you coming to grips with the reality where you might have to move one of them? What is your hope as GM of the Thunder?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I picked him to win the series before Steph got injured. I do think the Warriors have been pretty game without Steph. I mean, they fell behind by 20 last night and threw the white flag pretty early. They're just, I mean, you talked about Oklahoma city having seven guys for five spots. The warriors have like four guys for five spots. It's the four guys for nine spots.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And when one, when one of healed or Pajemski is not on the floor, they just have, they have no one that can shoot. I mean, they have no shooting at all. So it's not been the toughest test for Minnesota, but ant looks awesome. Just poised and not going haywire. Like the haywire factor has been tamped down for the wolves all playoffs long. Randall looks great.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And look, they match up well with both Oklahoma City and Denver. They've played both those teams well. I'm not saying I'm picking them over either of those teams, but I think they have a real chance to make the finals, regardless of who comes out of that other series, especially if they can wrap this in five and get a little time off. They're healthy. They're deep. Their rotation is rock solid.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
They know exactly who should play, when, and with who. And I don't see a path. I mean, Steph... is he really coming back in game five based on his interview with Mark Spears? It doesn't seem likely. Is he really going to come back in game six for a while? Is, is, is, is that, is he really going to do that? I mean, are we going to get there? I don't see a path to them winning.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
If Steph, I just don't see how they win in Minnesota. If Steph is not playing game five, that would be need a heroic effort from Butler who didn't have it last night. Predictably. Like we talked about it. I talked about it yesterday with Mahoney. Like he's coming off an injury and, And he just isn't going to bring that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
They needed to win the Jimmy Butler game in game three when he really brought it and scored 30 or whatever, and they didn't win. And I've already started thinking about, is there any kind of pivot for the Warriors? Or is this just like the Butler trade is indisputably a good trade? This is a good team. I don't really know if they have another move. I'll tell you what's been a disaster. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Yeah, I mean, look, they have $170 million next year. So they're butting up against the tax. For Curry, Butler, Draymond, Moody, Pajemski, Heald, Jackson Davis, and Post and Santos are non-guaranteed. So they, like, Kaminga sign and trade, let Kaminga walk, you have the mid-level. They got some stuff. I'll tell you what's been a disaster.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
moody moody just like not even being able to play in this series has really shocking he was really starting to look good in april and then it just died yeah he was looking like a real guy so i don't this is this is maybe just to your point earlier like i don't really know what their next move is you know they have their picks other than the one pick they owe to miami this year which is totally worth it i just don't you know i don't know they have one chance in game five and here's the chance
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And the Knicks are just... They are... Even when they don't play that well... their floor is very competitive because they slow the pace down. Yeah. They don't turn the ball over. They offensive rebound. Um, and they just have good players across all their minutes are now going to, to good play. Like Robinson has been unbelievable.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
McBride seems to make every three off an offensive rebound that he gets.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
You mentioned Brunson on switches. Cat has been really good on switches against Tatum and Brown. He's been bad in pick and roll coverage when they've tried to like normal pick and roll coverage. He's been, he's like stood, stood his ground on switches and that has baited the Celtics into all their worst habits.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I mean, like it sounds crazy to say the guy I think has been the best attacking cat at Robinson on switches. The big guys on switches among Boston's players is Pritchard. Like Pritchard step back. His rhythm is like his range is, It has really fooled those guys, which was yet another reason why I could not believe he was not on the floor last night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
And I think he's had... This entire series, I think he's had one post-up on a switch where I felt like that was a good post-up, where he plays bully ball and takes the extra step in. All the other ones have been like, all right, you're going to take a 16-footer and you're not going to make it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Panicking is a good word because that's why game two was a more disturbing loss for me than game one. Because game two was not about the volume of threes. It was a little bit about the volume of threes, but it was more about just why are you rushing these crazy shots, twos and threes instead of running a real offense? Like what's happening to you?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, we will always remember, as long as we do this, May 12th, 2025, for crazy and sad reasons. We still haven't gotten word. It's now 11.30 Central, 12.30 Eastern on Tatum. So maybe there will be a plot twist we don't expect.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
But regardless, May 12th, 2025, the day the Mavs won the lottery, the day the Spurs almost won the lottery, the day Tatum went down and the Celtics championship votes seemed to go down with him. What else? Did anything else happen? I forgot Ace Bailey's measurements came in lower than people maybe even anticipate. I don't know. Crazy day. What a day. Oh my God.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, we're still digesting it. Bill Simmons, the live shows with both with Ryan on Sunday nights and last night did a special one. I've been with Kyle Mann and House have been awesome. You're taping again tomorrow, right?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I don't know.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
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The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
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The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Repeater tax kicking in too.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, this I mean, if next year is a true gap year, you are granted as a franchise a little bit more leeway in terms of like how dramatic you can make. I mean, I've already had front office people from other teams text me like, this could be Warriors 2.0 when Durant left and Steph got injured. Like, could they actually tank? And I'm like, I don't... They have too many good players to tank.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
We just had a lottery, which we'll talk about, in which we saw yet again that the tanking teams all didn't get the payoff that they wanted to get. Like, it doesn't actually... The efficiency isn't quite there anymore. I just think they have too many good players. But... And then you look around... it has to be a short-term thing because they owe their pick to the Spurs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
The Spurs have a top-one protected swap with them in 2028. They owe their 2029 pick, so they're already sort of all in on this team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Because you're already removing Tatum. But how do you do it? Do you have to move Jalen?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
All right, welcome to a semi-emergency edition of the Zach Lowe Show, an all-time emotional swings wild night in the NBA Monday night. I'm in Chicago. I was in the lottery room, rushed back after schmoozing with people to watch Celtics-Knicks. Obviously, that ended horribly for the Celtics. There's a lot to go through.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Yeah. Well, I still am emotionally scarred from Cole Anthony doing the dunk contest in Timberland Boots. He did one dunk in Timberland Boots, and I was like, that seems dangerous. I wouldn't want him to do that. So you mentioned all the guys, right? Jalen is Jalen. He's a franchise rock. He has not had a good series against New York. Did not have a good game last night. Awful. Awful, that's right.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
The handle is rickety. Again, negative assist to turnover ratio. He's shooting 7 of 31 on threes, I think, for the series. 38% overall. But he's a... He's a foundational Celtic. Drew, with those three years left at his age, like, I don't even know what his trade value would be.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Porzingis on an expiring, coming off injuries, this virus mystery, and just, I mean, he's looked horrible this entire series for the most part. He cannot make a shot from two or three. And last night I'm watching the game and obviously Tatum gets injured and then you just sort of blank out the rest of the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
But as the Celtics are teetering and the Knicks, the Knicks have been the tougher team in this series. Brunson has been the best player in the series. And Anobi made big shots last night. Kat sort of like. Bridges was the key second Knick last night. Bridges is like, I could hear you screaming, like, this is why you traded for Mikael Bridges, to run the offense when Brunson is on the bench.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Robinson played 25 minutes, his second highest total of the whole year. The him and cat combo has been great. Like, the Knicks have earned that win and have earned the right to be one game from the conference finals. By the way, can you imagine, just for a second, we're going to get there. Can you imagine if... Six, seven months after that trade, we get a Wolves-Knicks finals.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Like, it's not off the table right now. It's very much actually on the table. But anyway, I just want to say that because we're not going to talk much about the Knicks. Porzingis... But what I was thinking was, why was Pritchard not in the game for Porzingis last night? And I checked, did I miss him getting in foul trouble? He's been awesome the whole series. Porzingis can't make anything.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I didn't understand what they were doing. And my point is, what are you getting for Kristaps Porzingis on an expiring contract? You're getting someone else's dead money that they don't want for more years. Are you attaching a pick to get off of it if you want to get something good? I don't know what you're getting for that. White is the guy... that you could probably get a mother load for.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
This is the best he's ever been. He's on a good contract, but like, I don't want to trade Derek White. He's awesome. That trade changed the entire trajectory of the Celtics franchise. He's an awesome, awesome player. I want to trade him. I don't know what you do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Bill Simmons, I listened to a good chunk of your live reaction with Kyle Mann and Joe House last night, and then I had to tap out to watch the basketball games. We don't know yet. It's 10.30 Central Time, 11.30 Eastern Time. There's been no official word. It doesn't look good. It doesn't sound good. I fear the worst-case scenario, which not only would end this season, but
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Brunson couldn't miss. It was an incredible Brunson game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I couldn't believe last night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I checked the box score. I paused the game and I checked the box score. Did I miss four Pritchard fouls? What is Porzingis doing in the game? Why was Derek White on Jalen Brunson for that entire time when Brunson just cooked him over and over again? Derek White's a great defensive player, but we've seen this. Skinnier guys... Brunson is really comfortable against. He gets to his spots.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Drew has been much better.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
it's a mystery the coaching was a mystery and the way they played and responded was just weird it was whiffs of 2022 when they would just melt down in crunch time too often and like just walk up it's the same thing that happened in game two which was really the story of the series is that is i thought game two was a much worse loss than game one for them i agree just all the bad habits came to roost and then the tatum thing is obviously a basketball tragedy if it is what what we fear well and then you think like so hauser gets hurt
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
They need to send him to the sore bone or something to do experiments on what is going on. I don't understand what's happening to his body with this virus.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Yeah, credit to the Knicks. We're all still waiting for the Tatum news.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
would probably torpedo next season. Obviously, it ends their repeat goals. I think that was a big motivator for them to break this no-repeat streak that will now continue, presumably, in the NBA. And raises a lot of questions about how would the Celtics, who were already looking at a financial crunch and whatever, handle... Something of a gap year?
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
I only brought up Knicks-Wolves possibility because of the funniness of that trade hovering over the entire season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons
Well, the one thing, and it's too big of a thing to do properly now is... You know, I think somebody tweeted this, a guy named Lev Akabas, who does data visualization stuff, tweeted it last night. The rise in all-stars getting injured in the playoffs, missing games in the playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
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The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
I don't think it was necessarily like this –
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
horrible horrible hatred whatever it was just it was just tension about young players veterans directions who controlled what part of the organization but it bled into lots of different parts of it and you could see the nuggets in the middle of the western conference in danger of falling into the play-in if if the end of this season and particularly one critical head-to-head game it's memphis doesn't go their way
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Yeah, you mentioned the double overtime loss against the Wolves. They haven't won since then. They're on a four-game losing streak. It was a perfect storm of bad events, mostly surrounding Russell Westbrook, who... You know, look, I wouldn't count on him for the level of role he's had to play for them.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
I have to say, like, I think he's probably been even a little better for them than I would have expected. Like, I don't think you can pin this slightly disappointing season on him. Just not my cup of tea as a signing or as like he's started a lot of games for them because he's had to. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
they're they are trending the wrong way but to your point the most important reason they're trending the wrong way is their second best player is not playing and you could quibble like maybe aaron gordon's their second best player and all that but jamal murray is their second most important player he is the other fulcrum of their offense to pick and roll dance partner for yokich and when he found his game in the middle of the season and started having some scoring explosions and looking like jamal murray the whole league took notice and said okay
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Well, last year's playoffs are in the rearview. The Olympics are in the rearview. The beginning of this season is in the rearview when he was struggling. If this guy's back, this team's back, and all of a sudden he's not back, what do we even know? It's the hamstring again. Obviously, it goes without saying, if he's not that Jamal Murray... They just don't have enough to get through the West.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And even if he is, too many other things have gone wrong this year. They still may not have enough to get through the West. But that's the – if you want to boil everything down to one thing right now, it's what's going on with Jamal Murray.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Five and nine in their last 14 games. Jamal Murray's health, uncertain. And just – I mentioned in the very first episode of the Zach Lowe Show, just one of those years where it just doesn't feel like things are ever going to lock into place at the same time, which is what you need. You need everything locked into place to do what they did two years ago and just –
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
In every part of the game, too. For guys like Tatum, it's defense, it's offense. 8 of 24, and you'll still feel like he played well, like he helped our team. And you mentioned the separation. Jamal has never been – obviously, he's not an above-the-rim player. He's not explosive in the way that jumps off your television screen. But when he's right –
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
He just has this sort of funky cadence to his game, the stop and start and change of direction, shoulder fakes, half fakes, half spins, where when that stuff is really popping like 10% more, that's where he gets that extra bit of space for his jump shot, for his fadeaway, for the pocket pass to Jokic.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Which, by the way, part of the thing about the Murray-Jokic pick and roll and why Murray being at peak Murray is so important is... The Nuggets noticed last season, even before last season, more and more defenses just selling out to take away the pocket pass to Jokic.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Like you're just not going to get that pass because his floater became the most dangerous fail safe shot in the NBA, a 60 something percent fail safe. And so they started loading up on it, the angles on Jokic himself, basically saying, Jamal Murray, you're going to have to beat us with some drives and some jump shots. And for them to win a lot of playoff series, he's going to have to do that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And he started to look like he was getting back to that kind of form. And now he's out again. Yeah, I don't know. Everyone, where do they go from here? We'll see who the coaching candidates are going to be if David Adelman gets a chance to go for the job and all that. Roster-wise... I mean, okay, they don't really have extra first-round picks. A lot of their own first-round picks are gone.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Jamal Murray's extension doesn't even kick in until next season where it becomes $46 million, $50 million, $54 million, $57.5 million. Aaron Gordon got extended. Christian Brown will be extension eligible after the season. Peyton Watson will be extension eligible after the season. I don't – there were all these – at some point there was like a Michael Porter Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
trade rumor where is he going to be the piece to go get Zach Levine. And that was poo-pooed to me a little bit. And I think Michael Porter Jr. has had a good year. He's slowed down a little bit lately. You know, there's some fungibility there in terms of can we shake up the roster in a like for like talent for talent trade. But those are really hard to make.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
It's been one thing, and then that thing gets fixed, and then it's another thing, and then this player pops a little bit, and then that same player regresses. This player gets hurt. That player gets healthy. It's just never quite meshed all together. But this, the timing of this, is absolutely monumentally shocking to me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Even in the summer when the apron loosens a little bit, those kind of deals are hard to make, you know, and you do have the best player in the world. And like, I just I don't know where they go.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Yeah, he has a deep affection for Jamal Murray. A couple of things. Totally agree on Michael Porter Jr. 's first few months of the season. I remember tweeting about it. He's getting to the basketball more. He's a little more comfortable off the dribble. I don't think I would have traded him for Zach Levine in that kind of deal.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
I just – a 6'10 guy who can shoot like that, like if you're going to trade Michael Porter Jr. and you're the Denver Nuggets and you're already the least voluminous three-point shooting team in the league, you better get someone who's an A to A plus shooter back in that trade because you ain't got a lot to lose. Jamal Murray to Orlando, great theoretical idea.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
The challenge that you're going to come up with – I realize we're just spitballing and we're going to wrap up here in a second. It's like you have Jokic – you have to make – every trade has to be a win-now trade. There's no rebuilding trade. There's no Jamal Murray for picks even if that's available. And so you go to a team like Orlando and you're like, all right, what are they giving me?
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Matt Moore, senior writer of the Action Network, among many other jobs, host of Locked On NBA and Locked On Nuggets podcasts. What, what, what, what, what's happening? What, why, why? Like, is the NBA just determined? You know what? We've, we've reached peak crazy with trades with Luca. We've just got to find ways to reach peak crazy with coaches and now GMs too.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Because presumably it's not Palo and it's not Franz. Is it Suggs and is that enough? Is it Suggs plus something? And Orlando's got to be sold on Jamal Murray's health and availability and all of that. It's just tricky to make trades that have to be – win now, talent for talent kind of trades. But that's where the Nuggets are going to find themselves as long as, you know, Jokic's prime continues.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And yeah, I think it's safe to say it's continuing for as long as the horizon is because the guy's the best player in the league.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
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The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Well, it may be, you know, will Peyton Watson's jump shot ever develop again? Will Julian Strother's two-way game ever sort of balance at the same time where both parts of it are humming? That's life with young players. Sometimes those bets don't pay off in time for your incumbent superstars.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
All right, Matt Moore, thanks for popping on to a little emergency reaction podcast to a truly bizarre, bizarre series of events in Denver. Even if the outcome isn't shocking, the timing is beyond shocking. You can read Matt Moore and listen to Matt Moore all over the place, one of the OGs of the basketball internet. Thank you, sir. Hey, thanks for having me, Zach. Welcome back, buddy.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Yeah, in early September, I made sort of a stray comment on a podcast about how the coach and the GM don't really see eye to eye in Denver. And that got some traction in the aggregation sphere. I just thought it was well-known and had been publicly written about before. And then I wrote a story about the Nuggets centered around their three-point rate and how they were set up to –
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
have the lowest three-point rate in the NBA, and even if you have the best player in the world, which they do, is there a threshold of threes that you have to get to or else you just can't win four playoff series or another? Their offense is incredible anyway because Jokic is just that good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And Calvin Booth made some comments in that piece about X's and O's, including about have we become a little bit too dependent on the Murray-Jokic pick and roll? Have defenses at least figured out tolerable ways to guard that? Do we need to diversify it? And I told the coaches, including Michael Malone, about those comments, said, hey, Calvin said this, do you want to comment?
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Michael Malone didn't want to comment. And then I heard subsequently through intermediaries that Calvin's comments did not go over well with the coaching staff. And I'm like, man, I'm caught in the middle of this. This is how bad it was. And to your point, I've heard lots of stories over the last year of not having a job about –
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
well, this guy has been pigeonholed as a Calvin guy and some people are wary of him. And this guy has been pigeonholed as a Malone guy and some people are wary of him. Maybe that's unfair to the principles involved. Maybe, you know how misinformation can spread through an organization and people are always, always fearful of their jobs in the NBA and any highly competitive industry.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Two days in and we're already doing an emergency podcast because in another event, the second in, I don't know, 10 days where the timing is the biggest surprise more than the substance, the Denver Nuggets, two years after winning a championship, One year after making the conference semifinals and losing in seven to the Minnesota Timberwolves.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
It could all have been bad information, but it's hard to function in that kind of atmosphere at a level that you need to function top to bottom to win the championship, which is still the goal when you have the best player in the world and a roster that's broadly similar to the one that won the championship. And I know I'll get pushback for that. So let's, let's go through that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Well, you know what, before we get to that, that all of that said, The most logical outcome was the season's over. Like, it's pretty much over. Let's just say that we've decided we don't want to extend Calvin Booth. We're going to move on from him. You know, you could do that in the offseason.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And I thought there was a world where they could have kept Michael Malone, who's a good coach, and had him work with the new GM. And they just – for them to decide to do it all at once now – five days before the end of the season is shocking and actually sort of in a bizarre way, a show of faith from ownership in the actual roster of the team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
It's ownership saying, despite all of this crap that is coming out today and has been coming out all year, we still think this roster, despite the fact that people are going to pick on all the parts we let go in the last two summers, which we'll talk about, this roster we still think can do damage in the playoffs. And, you know, we'll see. But the timing is just...
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And people in there, it's not like I've heard from a ton of people because they're all still digesting this. This caught people by massive amounts of surprise from what I've heard so far.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
It's a very sharp group of assistant coaches, top to bottom, including David Adelman.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And five days before the end of the regular season have fired Michael Malone, who had been their coach for a decade, and decided also not to retain Calvin Booth, the general manager. Everybody is out. All the higher-ups are out. And I mentioned...
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Let's talk about Michael Maloney, Calvin Booth. Because there's going to be a temptation in the media and among fans to paint one or both as bad guys, good guys. You know, this guy had to go, that guy had to go. Michael Malone is the winningest coach in Denver Nuggets history. he won a championship with the Denver nuggets. He's objectively a good NBA coach.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
He's actually my standard for the perfect is the enemy of good coaching decision dating back to the Kings deciding, Hey, this guy's actually having success with our team, but we're going sideways a little bit. Cause DeMarcus cousins is ill and we're losing. And you know what? Let's just make a snap decision. Cause we think we can get a better guy than this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And I remember saying at the time, you better be careful. Because you may be on your ninth head coach in 12 years, and you still haven't got a better guy than Michael Malone. They finally undid that by getting Mike Brown, and then they fired him in much the same way. So Michael Malone's a very good coach. And yeah, he is outspoken. He's tough.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
He will call the players out directly, both publicly and privately. And I think that was probably good for the team during their period of growth and coming up to finding themselves. And in fact, this team had and has...
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
a certain level of toughness and resiliency to it, the dating back to like the year they missed the playoffs and they had to win all those games at the very end of the season, 2017, 2018, where they could have thrown in the towel and they fought and they fought and they fought to a winner take all game 82 in Minnesota that they lost in overtime.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And Jokic gets on the plane after that game and is telling people like, thank you for agreeing, going, Tim Connolly told me this story, going seat to seat saying, thank you for the season. We're not going to be in this position again. And the bubble, 3-1 down, win. 3-1 down, win. He has to get some credit for that sort of level of steel and toughness.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Sure, you could have your tactical disagreements with him like you could with any coach, but the guy's a good NBA coach. Calvin Booth. is going to get probably more of the score in here because of the idea that he forced his young players on Michael Malone and let veterans walk away. Sure, there's some objective truth to that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
And Calvin Booth was very proud of his draft picks and very proud of his young players. And like Michael Malone, a strong-willed, some might say stubborn personality who bears some responsibility for the deterioration of the sort of mood within the organization. A lot of those draft picks, Christian Brown's pretty damn good. For where he was picked, Peyton Watson's pretty damn good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
The timing is the main source of the surprise because, as our guest knows as well as anyone, the tension between the coaching staff and the front office had been an open secret around the league for, I don't know, two years. I had mentioned it very openly on one of the last Low Post podcasts I did at my previous employer. It had spilled over into every part of the organization.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
I still have faith in Julian Strother. His sort of unreadiness on defense and inconsistency on offense was a minor theme of the season even before he got hurt. But he's a young player. They're not always going to be ready on exactly the right schedule that you need them to be. Zeke Nagy is a different story.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Although there was like a month where the Nuggets were like, hey, maybe this like three weeks ago where maybe the Zeke Nagy thing was finally happening. And then apropos of the kind of
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
something's always going wrong season I described earlier all of a sudden Zeke Nagy can't get in the rotation anymore and obviously hovering over all of this are the specters of Bruce Brown and Jeff Green and Contavious Caldwell Pope and the idea that this cheap ownership group the Cronkies won't pay for a championship roster when they have the best player in the world in his prime and what a sin that is and they didn't pay but let's just be clear on some of the facts the
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
The Nuggets could only offer Bruce Brown, I think, seven point something million dollars a year. The Pacers offered him 20 something million dollars a year. Jeff Green was an important part of their team, is now, let's say, not that important of a part of the on-court product of the Houston Rockets. KCP was a flashpoint. I didn't like it. You may not have liked it. I can't remember.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Do they miss the skill set that he has or had or still mostly has? They do. And is veteran three and D play and Christian Brown's not the same level three point shooter in terms of volume and all that. KCP has not had a good year in Orlando. And they kind of bet against him going forward. And it's hard to say that they lost that bet watching his performance in Orlando.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
Now, are there missed opportunities to build the roster in other ways? Absolutely. Should Dario Saric have a $5 million player option next year? Absolutely not. All that is to say, like, is the cheap thing a real thing? It is a real thing. They didn't pay, but had they paid KCP, it would have been second apron, second apron, second apron, and all that comes with it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Instant Reaction Pod With Matt Moore: Breaking News in Denver
I guess it's not as easy as just pay, pay, pay, pay, pay, because then all of a sudden you might become the Phoenix Suns.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
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The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And Bogdanovich has done nothing in the series, and he's going to make some shots eventually. And you just watch Ty Lue's rotation. It's a very simple rule. Like... They start a defense-first non-shooter in Chris Dunn and then an offense-first third, fourth scorer, Norm Powell. When those guys come out, it's always balanced the same way. Dunn out, Jones in. Powell out, Bogdanovich in.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Just watch Chris Dunn. Because the smart thing that Ty Lue is doing is he knows when we run the Harden-Zubats pick and roll or the Kawhi-Zubats pick and roll, which is those two two-man games operate much differently because of the way Harden works versus how methodical Kawhi is. They know whether Jokic drops back. whether Jokic comes up to the point of the screen, and they'll mix up both.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They're going to pull in off Chris Dunn, no matter where he is. And so they'll move him around. They'll put him on the weak side. That's the easiest read for Denver's defense, because weak side, that's where the help's coming from. All of a sudden, he'll be on the strong side. And there were a couple times when Michael Porter Jr. had him on the strong side corner and didn't pull in because...
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
That's strong side. You're not supposed to help from there. But when it's Chris Dunn, you are. Then at the end of the game, they set staggered screens with Zoo and Chris Dunn as the other screener. So you're taking the help guy, putting him in the action. It's just like they're mixing it up and keeping Denver just off balance enough. I can't wait for this game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
We're talking about all-time heavyweight players with Harden, Kawhi, Jokic. And, you know, look, I admittedly am higher on this guy than almost anyone in the world outside of Calvin Booth, maybe. I watch these games and I watch Russ and Peyton Watson getting almost all the bench minutes, two guys who are not going to get guarded on the perimeter. It's fine. We all know this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
But my God, the physicality in these playoffs. But if you're going to bookmark two things that happened last night for the long term, one is Jalen Brown announcing, I'm good. We're good. No Jason Tatum, no problem. Orlando's offense still stinks. Franz Wagner's jumper still busted. Hitch still present. 2-0 Boston. Thing number two, obviously Jimmy Butler's pelvic contusion. Undercut accidentally.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
This is not to badmouth any of these guys. It's just what it is. And Jalen Pickett comes in and they don't trust Jalen Pickett. He might play one stint, not a second. Julian Strother's injury and inability to earn the coaching staff's trust on defense has been a big little subplot for the Nuggets because they really needed him to become a rotation player this year because of his shooting.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And he just hasn't been able to earn the trust. The injuries haven't helped. And I wonder if they'll even dust him off a little bit. Forget Zeke Nagy. That's over. They're playing DJ as a backup center in game two. I couldn't believe it. Okay. Any last thoughts on this game?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
is the headline i think we share that opinion zach you know who we haven't talked about enough because their series has been such a freaking massacre um the winner of this series gets the oklahoma city thunder who are up 2-0 they have outscored the grizzlies by 70 points in two games the 118 99 game 2 19 point win that's a nail biter relative to game one the grizzlies look
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
You know what the Grizzlies look like? They look like a team that has no identity because they fired their coach a week before the season ended, completely scrapped the offense that they had committed to with all the cutting and close-up. And now it's like Jaron Jackson Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
is either going one-on-one against one of 19,000 elite Oklahoma City defenders or standing on the perimeter, spacing the floor for Zach Eady doing nothing. John's just out there kind of having ink. They just look rudderless.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
There's no identity. The identity, they just need the season to be over. They have no identity. It's kind of, well, anyway. But Oklahoma City, I mean, they look like they got shot out of a cannon in this series. Like, they've been saving their legs for months. Caruso, who's been load-managed all season, looks like he just came back from a six-month hiatus and he has no wear and tear on him at all.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
The ball denial... The getting over screens, it's just outrageous how good they are defensively. Look, I picked them to make the finals. Lots of people picked them to make the finals. Actually, not as many people picked them to make the finals as you would expect, but I did. Probably you did. Others did. It's tempting to watch these two games and be like, oh...
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
are they going to go like 12-1 in the Western Conference playoffs? There's going to be – and SGA hasn't even shot well yet. Far from it. They'll get stressed out at some point. It's not going to be this series. Maybe it's next series. But there's going to be a couple games where the half-court offense gets a little tight and a little wobbly, and they'll have to work their way out of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
But they look unbelievable, and – We've been saying it all year. The Hartenstein-Schett combo loomed as one of the great wildcards of the season. Would it work? How would it work? I think it's been even more important for their offense than for their defense, although defensively it's monstrous.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
It just gives them another look to go to some offensive rebounding, the Hartenstein floater, the Hartenstein short roll game. Those guys are plus 18 and 30 minutes together. Then they go five out with Chet and set all their guard guard screens or use Chet as a screener. And you can see the defense being like, oh my God, what are we supposed to do? They look so fresh, so fast, so goddamn nasty.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I was glad no one tried to make a thing out of it. Ahmed Thompson lost his balance. There's a collision. Jimmy Butler falls. plays eight minutes. The Rockets win a rock fight where there are like nine near fights and scrums and Tari Eason threw a towel at Pat Spencer, who was like implausibly involved because Butler was out. Pajemski was saying, Jonathan Kaminga played.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And again, it's tempting to say, oh, they're just going to roll and they might roll. This might be a 12 and two situation. I suspect there'll be a series where it's one, one, or they have a couple of bad games here and there. But I mean,
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
the playoffs have a way of revealing who you are and revealing the true hierarchy of a conference and i i don't want to belabor memphis because i talked about it already memphis has to be looking at this and saying this is the measuring stick we're so far from this that we don't even know where to go from here that's how awesome oklahoma city is looking everyone including boston
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
who I picked to win the title and will still pick to win the title, particularly Jalen Brown, looking like that has to look at this team and say, okay, that's the level. Like that's what we have to score 110 points against that defense right there. Good luck.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Could you imagine if they sweep Memphis and Nuggets Clippers is like a six or seven game just slugfest? What game one of that following series is going to feel like? The Thunder with like eight days of rest just coming out, growling. They're also just such a smart team. Just like a small example. This is one of my favorite things in the NBA. Nobody does this. Not enough people do this. Game two.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
By the way, you know it's bad for the Grizzlies when my notes say things like, should they play Jay Huff? We've reached the stage of the where's Jay Huff stuff. So there was a post. They tried to post up Jaron Jackson in the first quarter. I think he had a J-dub on him. Not a mismatch. In fact, it's almost...
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Getting guarded by Jalen Williams in the post is almost like a misdemeanor assault, and I mean that in a good way. And Santi Aldama had the ball, and he was going to entry pass to Triple J. He picked up his dribble like 30 feet from the rim. SGA was on Santi Aldama. SGA saw that, and nine times out of ten, the player in SGA's spot is just... you know, just it's another game, whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
He's guarding normally. He lets the guy throw the entry pass. SGA saw Santi Aldama pick up his dribble, took three strides back and was like basically doubling Jaron Jackson Jr. from the front. It was just like, you're not going to throw the ball in. Go do something else. And the Grizzlies were like, oh, you're not just going to give us the road entry pass. You're going to be this mean.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And the whole possession just died. I love watching the Thunder. They're incredible. the Zach Lowe Show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are finally here and there's no better way to be a part of the action than with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
After another competitive season, the top teams are ready to battle their way through the playoff bracket in hopes of taking home the championship. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down, well, put your money where your mouth is. Make those predictions pay off with FanDuel and NBA Profit Boosts. Simply make your bet, activate your boosts, and go for even bigger winnings.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Don't just be a spectator this postseason. Head to FanDuel.com slash low, L-O-W-E, my last name, the name of this podcast, to download America's number one sportsbook and make every Very quickly on the first game tonight, Knicks-Pistons. Again, opening at 7 p.m. I don't want to get too far into it. This feels like a capital M moment in the Tom Thibodeau era of New York Knicks basketball.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
No? Kaminga, get in. And he stunk too, much to my chagrin as a Jonathan Kaminga fanboy. Rockets win, Butler prognosis, TBD. And then in the other game that probably nobody watched, Donovan Mitchell scored 10 points in two minutes to ice. A frisky Heat-Cavs game, which we will talk about. Those are the headlines from last night. 1-1 Warriors-Rockets of all those series is the fun one to watch.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Like, are you actually this good of a team? Is the cat trade actually going to pay dividends? Is this Hart, Bridges, Ananobi, Brunson, cat thing? Again, gaps emerge, right? The Celtics are the measuring stick in the East. You're 1-1 against the Pistons. Young, hungry, physical, wildly untested, overmatched talent-wise, and you are 1-1 going into Detroit.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Your offense in Game 2 looked as if you had never seen the concept of centers guarding Josh Hart and wings guarding Carl Anthony Towns. Guess what? You've seen it since literally opening night of the season. That's how Boston guarded the Knicks. And they just sort of like, I guess all we have is Jalen Brunson doing stuff, and it wasn't enough.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And look, there's a lot of counters they can go to to get Cat unlocked, to get more variety in their offense. But this feels like put up, not put up or shut up because it's game three, but this feels like the next few games of this series, if Detroit can take these guys to seven games, Like we're going to learn a lot about the Knicks. This feels like a time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
This feels like a statement moment for the Knicks. And I want to come out, mix up some variety, use bridges more. You know what? If, if a wing is, if Tobias Harris is on cat, you can still run Brunson cat pick and rolls. They've run 21 Brunson cat pick and rolls in two games. That's not enough. That's you surrendering to what Detroit wants you to do. And guess what? When you run it,
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Tobias Harris is staying attached to Cat a lot. And Brunson gets easy driving lanes. You get switches. They just got to make Cade work on defense. Post up Ananobi on Cade. Put Ananobi into pick and rolls as a screener or a ball handler. It's like more stuff. And credit to Detroit. They're so mean and so nasty, and Cade is so ready for all of this. But New York should win this series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They should not be having this hard of a time against a strategy they've seen a million times. It's every smart team plays the Knicks this way. I want to show up tonight angry and efficient and calculated. I want to see that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
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The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I blame it on coaching. I blame it on lack of creativity. Because, look, when they've put him in the post against Tobias Harris, I bet the efficiency numbers are pretty good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
tobias harris is making him take tough shots shout out tobias harris who has become kind of like an nba nerd punchline sort of stand-in for boring averageness he's been awesome in this series and he's been like tough and fired up but yeah cat's got to get going they just got like they just have to be better i've seen people say you know um
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
But let's briefly hit tonight's game. It's 9.30 in the morning.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
less Josh Hart more Deuce McBride so that they can't do this gambit of putting a center on somebody other than Cat and clearly they don't want they even took Paul Reed started on Cat and then they're like you know what Paul Reed we're doing the same thing with you you guard Josh Hart like that's a cool idea I get the appeal of it you get much smaller and I you know Tibbs is showing like he put Mikael Bridges on the bench in a bunch of games this season including game one of this series he sat for a lot of the fourth quarter
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I just don't think it's realistic to say just cut in half Josh Hart's minutes. I don't think that's going to be a solution. He's been too important to their team. There are other solutions that lay within this lineup that they have to unlock. But enough Knicks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I don't want to belabor these games because they're coming on tonight but we have to start with the 10 p.m game Clips Nuggets game three first playoff game in Inuit Dome it's going to be rocking this has been the series of the first round and the biggest story in the NBA is Kawhi Leonard you were up close with the Kawhi Leonard experience as it petered out in San Antonio um
The Zach Lowe Show
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I saw a graphic that listed all the fouls all the Knicks players have drawn, and it was Jalen Brunson, like maybe 25 I'm going to ballpark.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
That's cool. So his, his foul per falling over ratio is almost 50%. Like he's probably fallen over 46 times and drawn 23 fouls.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I mean, I get – it's just I'm used to it, right? But I am annoyed. Like he'll get – he'll just get – what annoys me is just when there's nothing happening and he tries to make it look like something's happening. So they'll inbound the ball to him just out of a basket, like a baseline out of bounds. Inbound the ball. His guy will be like pressing him, just totally routine pressure, and he'll –
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Just like, can you, how about you just bring the ball up to court, man? Like it's, if you get someone up in the air and a pump fake and you try to jump into them, I hate that shit. I think they should call that an offensive foul for every player every time. But like, I get it. An event has occurred that you've created when you've tried to create something from nothing, a non-event.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
That's what annoys me. Let me ask you this though. On the general topic, now we're going to Warriors, Rockets, and Butler got hurt in all of this. That series is insanely physical. I mean, Draymond is in a semi-altercation every five minutes. Every game, the commentators are saying how physical this is and how this is nothing like regular season basketball.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And my question to you as someone who's worked in the league and probably had these discussions, is there such a thing? We all want... Like, hard competition, more physicality, fewer free throws, fewer pauses to the game. Everyone enjoyed last year when the refereeing shifted midseason to allow more physicality on defense, even though the league was like, what? Nothing happened.
The Zach Lowe Show
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We didn't tell anyone to do anything. No one did anything. There was no directive. Yeah. Is there such a thing as too big of a difference between regular season basketball and playoff basketball? Because this is like football on television right now.
The Zach Lowe Show
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What is it like for you to watch this guy look like all of a sudden peak Kawhi is back pouring in thirty nine points, 15 of 19 shooting, getting to any spot, any matchup and just getting steals looking like, oh, yeah, this is the guy that I voted for for MVP eight years ago. What has it been like for you to watch this?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, and Orlando, who can't score, and has not been able to score all year. Their only recourse against Boston is a hope. Paolo has a huge game and he has, uh, He's making the shots. Boston is giving him enough of them that if they had any support for him at all, they'd be in these games. And B, beat the shit out of the Celtics. They can't call everything. They can't call everything.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Let's beat them up. And guess what? Jason Tatum's already injured. And luckily, it's just a bone bruise. He was doubtful. Maybe I suspect if the Celtics were down 1-0, he would have played. Or if the Celtics had any fear of this opponent, he might have played. But he didn't play. And to your point,
The Zach Lowe Show
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The regular season probably needs to be a little bit more physical, and the playoffs so far probably are a little too physical. Just narrow the gap a little bit because you said the word dangerous. I'm watching these games, and I was thinking this before the Butler fall. Again, that was an accident of just guys flying around. Someone is going to get injured.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Jalen Green just runs into Draymond Green and just elbows him in the face. Yeah, he got a flagrant, but someone is going to get injured or there's going to be a fight. And that's cool. Like, we all like to watch fights. Fights are cool. Fights are cool right until someone on your favorite team gets suspended for game seven of a playoff series.
The Zach Lowe Show
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That's what's going to happen if they keep allowing just wrestling matches all over the floor. All right, let's talk about Warriors Rockets. 1-1. I think we all expected a long series. I had Warriors in seven. The crowd was chanting F.U. Draymond. Steve Kerr, very offended. Not very. Slightly upset by this. I'm like, you know what?
The Zach Lowe Show
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if there's someone who brings this level of wrath upon himself, it's dream on green, who is flailing and hitting people and getting, he's always tangled up. Right. And sometimes you watch the replay and it's like, I can't really tell whose fault it is that they're tangled up and they all fall over.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And someone gets called for a foul, but when you're always tangled up, like you're just permanently entangled, it's probably your fault. Most of the time. Um, The biggest thing was the Butler injury. Obviously, we don't know as we're recording this what the status is. Tim Kawakami tweeted that there was some optimism that he had avoided some serious injury, but there's an MRI today. Who knows?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Obviously, if he's out for an extended period, the whole series shifts into Houston's favor. Pajemski was also sick. And the other thing that happened was credit Jalen Greene. who took a whole bunch of shit after game one. He was awful in game one. Responded with the most meaningful game of his career in the NBA. 38 points on 13 of 25 shooting. 8 of 18 on threes. His shot selection was better.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Very few, if any, isos where he's just driving at Steph wildly. Much more pick and roll, much more catch and shoot threes. And look, I don't know, again, like it's going to depend on injuries and who plays and who doesn't play. The Quinton Post minutes were a gift for Jalen Green. They were a gift for the Rockets because they gave them a place to attack defensively.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And Quentin Post had no shot in the pick and roll, no matter what he did against Jalen Green. Kavon Looney didn't really have a shot in the pick and roll. And the more those big guys have to play, Golden State can finagle different ways. They can play zone. They can put Post on, you know, whatever, Jabari Smith Jr., just anybody but the main screen center.
The Zach Lowe Show
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They'll find him and they'll punish him one way or another. But Jalen Green played a calm, sound game today. And the Rockets defense is what it is. I want to shout out Tari Eason, who 14 points off the bench. I think they could actually go to him a little bit here and there if Steph is guarding him, which he is. He has a decent power game. He's made his threes. He's a menace in transition.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
You could not keep him off the boards. And he's also had to guard Steph a little bit because of cross matches. Like if Steph is on him and there's a stop, he's stuck on Steph. He's done that really well when he's had to do it. Obviously, they want Thompson and Van Vliet on Steph primarily. But Eason's done a really good job. And just...
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
The Rockets are just going to – it's just unpleasant to play against them. I don't know. Do you have any takeaways? It's hard to have major takeaways from a game where one of the three most important players plays eight minutes and is injured, and they have to go so deep into their rotation. But did you have any –
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Any takeaways from this game that's going to make you like, okay, now I'm watching for that in game three as we go to the Bay?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Jabari Smith Jr., one of those guys who lost his starting spot this season. Nobody quite knows what he is. Does he have more ball handling in him? Is he a four? He's playing some three now. He's playing some five. Is he just a pick-and-pop guy? Can he exploit mismatches? He tends to fade away, blah, blah. Just a guy I'm happy to have on the floor. I think he plays winning basketball. He fights.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
He plays hard. He makes threes. I think they could post him against Steph when Steph hides on him. A couple of quick things from this game. Jalen Green, 23 pick and rolls in Game 2, up from 12 in Game 1 in terms of what his role was. He shot 41% on catch-and-shoot threes this season, 31% on pull-ups. Redirecting any of his threes that way, which they did last night, is good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And obviously Steph is going to go at the big guys on Houston on the pick and roll, whether they're on Moody, whether they're stuck on Draymond, whatever. Interesting chess match going forward. Let's quickly go through the other series. Boston-Orlando and Miami-Cleveland. Do you have any thoughts on... Let's start with Miami-Cleveland.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Because Miami made that a game and has actually scored pretty well against the Cavs through two games. Almost 117 points per 100 possessions. Hero was sensational.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And I thought Spoh, you know, I'd mentioned on Monday that too much hero isolation against Sam Merrill and, and guys that this is not really his game, not enough off ball movement, flare screens, pick and roll screening, pick and roll ball handling, total sea change. They had to move it all over the floor, doing all sorts of different things. He was great. Um,
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They got it within two late in the game. And then Donovan Mitchell scored 10 points in two minutes and 10 seconds, if my math is right, on two crazy twos and two awesome threes. Put the game away. Cavs are scoring 133 points per 100 possessions. They're going to win the series. it's going to raise a lot of questions about Miami's future and like, where is this team actually going?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Honestly, the best thing that's happened to Miami is that by making the playoffs, they got their pick situation in much better order. So they will give their 2025 pick to Oklahoma city and their 2027 pick top 14 protection to Charlotte rolls over just one year. If they had not made the playoffs, they were facing a scenario where they give unprotected 26 unprotected 28 and
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
So they got that sorted out and they have the Warriors picked this year. I don't know where they're going long term. They're not going to win this series. But talk about the Cavs. What have you what's what's what have impressed you about the Cavs?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Nikoli Ovech turning into Nikoli Ovech late in the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
The pace at which they play, and I'm not talking about fast breaks, I'm talking about every cut handoff, redirect is done with such urgency and speed that you can see the heat being like, I can't, we can't even keep up with what's going on. And you mentioned Strews. I think Strews is the poster guy for that.
The Zach Lowe Show
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He does everything at 100% speed and acceleration, every cut, every move, every bolt around the screen. And the passing is so fast that that the ball is just ahead of the defense. They're playing so together, so connected, and the Heat just can't keep up. The one thing that I do think is interesting is Kenny Atkinson has showed this throughout the season.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Until you force him otherwise, he is going to over-index on shooting at the expense of size. And so you've seen Jerome playing a ton of minutes, Merrill playing a ton of minutes, Okoro playing very few and Okoro thankfully made a corner three last night after looking like, uh-oh, is playoff Okoro back in game one? Oh my God. And Dean Wade just six minutes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
It'll be interesting to see if and when they arrive at an opponent and maybe it's not till Boston that forces them to reconsider that and what that does to their rotations. Just small notes on Cleveland. Sometimes I'm like, should they just play their starters more?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And last night there were a couple funky substitutions where they brought Garland or Mitchell in a little earlier than usual to have them play together. Like, should they just play Mobley and Allen together a little bit more? They never play the Hunter at three lineup with the rest in the Struis spot, which is fine. Struis has been so good, it doesn't matter.
The Zach Lowe Show
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One of my favorite plays from the game, and this is where you know you have, this is one of those plays that's a sign of a team with great chemistry. Darius Garland gets a pitch ahead. He's got Kal-El Ware on him on the right wing. He can dance. He can go to work. It's highlight time for Darius Garland. Instead, he's like, I got Kal-El Ware on me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
There's a small guy on one of our big guys somewhere. I'm going to wait for that big guy. And it's Jared Allen. And Jared Allen comes rampaging into the paint. Seals whoever the small guy is on him. Entry to Jared Allen. And one. That's a play... That's a healthy, together, connected, happy team. Heat need much more from Bam, particularly when he's got smaller guys on him. Love Bam.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Didn't do enough last night. Boston, Orlando, I don't have anything else to say other than Boston has gotten... 45% of their shots have been threes. That's a win for them. That's a lot. It's a little less than their regular season rate, but it's still huge. And every time Orlando... does anything but switch. Anytime they get into normal pick and roll rotations, Boston gets a three.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Jalen Brown was sensational. I have nothing else to say about that game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Southeast Division champions, baby. 41-41.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
and playing 40 plus minutes whatever the Clippers need I'm like you I never thought I would see it again I gave up on it even as they finished the season roaring to a whatever record in their last 30 games saying to the world we can compete with anybody in the west maybe even Oklahoma City who we might see in the next round and oh my god the thunder holy crap um
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I'll tell you this. I won't go in a bouncy house. I won't go in. If there's more than two people in a bouncy house, you might as well call an ambulance immediately. When I go to children's birthday, but first of all, I was at a children's birthday party once when there was a gust of wind and the entire bouncy house tipped over and there was like screaming children, screaming parents, bouncy house.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
When we moved into the burbs, We have a decent sized backyard. I wanted a trampoline. And our insurance guy was like, under no circumstances should you get a trampoline. A bouncy house is like 10 times worse than a trampoline. I won't go in it, Kurt Goldsberry. I will not go in a bouncy house.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Porzingis' rim protection has been awesome. He got to the line a bunch last night because they were switching and they leaned into his postgame again. Drew Holiday, there's always like, Drew Holiday, every one of these games, it's like, Drew Holiday's been kind of quiet.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And then there's like a five-minute stretch where he decides, I'm just going to press someone, take their cookies, make a couple threes, and all of a sudden the Celtics reach a different level. Last thing on the Magic, you know, a lot of the attention, and I think this is true, Priority number one, getting a guard who can shoot and create off the dribble.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And we don't need to go through all the potential names now. And I do think that should be priority number one. I will say the more I watch them, and I've said this before, the more I think they need, like Wendell Carter Jr., I like him. He's just not enough of an anything at center. He's not enough of a roller. He's not enough of a lob threat. He's not a lob threat or roller at all.
The Zach Lowe Show
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He's not enough of a shooter. He's not enough of a passer. Mo Wagner is a nice backup. They need a center. Who's enough of a something. And I don't know if it's a pick and pop center, pick and screen and dive lob threat center. Maybe they should do an aborted trade for Mark Williams. I don't know. Like they just need something from that spot to bend the defense more than Wendell Carter jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And Goga, who has fantastic hair, by the way, and Mo Wagner are able to do it. Okay. I want to finish up with you on this. Milwaukee, Indiana resumes tomorrow night. You want to talk about a franchise at a moment of crisis. Doc's got the doc face going. Mm hmm. Where, you know, the duck face. How about the duck? Like, I don't know.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
What is it where I've never seen anyone bend at the knees like Doc does. He's like a complete right angle watching the game. I've never seen any. It's one of the that's just his default pose in life. I don't know. Does he see the game better? Giannis is awesome. Dame came back, was fine. Looked a little tired at the end of the game. Kind of went into decoy mode, as you'd expect.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
All the rest of the starters have been poo-poo. Mine is a million. The bench, fine. Like, you want to play more Gary Trent? KPJ, Bobby Portis, that's all cool. Like, they've been a little better than A.J. Green. The A.J. Green, Giannis pick and roll with A.J. Green screening. Very effective. They're all good. My question to you is this, Kirk.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Even as that was happening, my brain has just been so conditioned to Kawhi getting injured and bad things happening to the Clippers. And Kawhi has not finished a season healthy since the bubble five years ago. That's the last time he played in the Clippers' last game of the season. And so I just my brain just wouldn't let me consider that this was actually a tenable possibility.
The Zach Lowe Show
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No matter what lineup they play, Milwaukee has been so helpless defensively and so just out of tenable answers that I'm sitting there like, what's the answer? Because I'll tell you what the answer is not. The switch everything thing they did in game two was so bad and so obviously untenable that I couldn't believe Doc Rivers didn't scrap it through one quarter.
The Zach Lowe Show
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You're switching everything with Brooke Lopez guarding Tyrese Halliburton. with Damian Lillard guarding Pascal Siakam, with Bobby Portis guarding Tyrese Halliburton. It's like a freaking buffet for the Pacers. They can get Tyrese Halliburton or Pascal Siakam on any buck of any kind and just simplify the offense and go to work.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And once they get by the first level of defense, it's pass, pass, pass, pass, pass until it's a three or a dunk. And the Bucs just were like, I guess we have nothing. We can try zone. Well, our zone is giving up. Let me look up. 1.26 points per possession. That stinks. TJ McConnell's a zone killer. They've got a bunch of zone killers. They can move Brooke Lopez around defensively.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
All right, coming up on the Zach Lowe Show, Kurt Goldsberry and I react to all the games from Wednesday night. We look ahead to Bucks, Pacers, Nuggets, Clippers, Pistons, Knicks. We hit everything. The physicality, Jimmy Butler's injury, Jalen Green's explosion, Jalen Brown's explosion. And then John Krasinski from The Athletic on the very strange Wolves-Lakers series. A super awesome deep dive.
The Zach Lowe Show
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It's like if you're going to switch everything, the matchups don't even matter. I'll tell you this. Switching everything, not the answer. I couldn't believe they stuck with it. Is there an answer?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Do you know why? It's because they switched and they tried to do the scram switch, which is like the fancy thing where you switch and there's a bad matchup like Damian Lillard on Pascal Siakam. And you scram, you switch so Dame runs somewhere else. And you know what they did? They ran around like the freaking three stooges. They didn't know where to run. They ran into each other.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And you know who guarded Pascal Siakam? Nobody. And that's what happens when you play a kind of defense that you have not played the entire season against an elite offensive team. If they come out switching everything like that in game three, I'm going to throw something at the wall like I did when John Franco used to blow saves for the Mets. I'm going to throw something at the wall.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And knock on wood, it's only been two playoff games. And, you know, we've seen him play two, three, four, six playoff games and then something bad happens. But this is unbelievable. I mean, this is a two time finals MVP, a two time defensive player of the year. You mentioned one point, whatever, six points per shot. 29 isos in this series against the Nuggets. 1.375 points per possession.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
You know who got really sad listening to that? Devin Booker. Devin Booker's postseason comments about how what's really frustrating is how close we were three years ago, and now this is where we are with everyone pouting and hating each other and firing coaches like, you know, I drink cups of coffee. Sad times, sad times.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Okay, so you shouldn't fire your coach every year? Every year, fire your coach? I can't believe how common that is. The Suns should try to hire a head coach on a one-year contract. Be like, look, let's be honest. Will you sign a one-year deal? Because you see how this goes. Credit to Matt Ishbia, who dialed down the rhetoric a little bit in his postgame bloviation. Is that a word?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
He did not say 26 out of 29 teams would change places as he did a year ago. One of my all time favorite. You love that one. Put that one in Springfield in my absurd quote, Hall of Fame wing. They need we have the wing of absurdity, which I once created for Grantland. And I had a whole series of stuff that was supposed to be in it. Headlined by a sculpture of LeBron gesturing at J.R. Smith. Why?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Why? Why?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Joe Johnson saying, it's not that bad here about Brooklyn. That's one of my all-time favorites.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
This is a separate off-season podcast. I can feel it coming. Where was I going with this? Oh, Ishbia. And then he can't help himself. He's going to say, we're going to win championships here. And I said it with an S. How about you just go singular? The franchise has zero championships. You didn't even make the fucking play-in tournament. How about you just go P at the end?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And how about you just say, you know what? We're going to try our damnedest to win a championship. No, we're going to win championships. Plural. Awesome. I hope you do. I hope you do. Okay, Bucks. Here's some of the things I would try. Why are we panicking about Miles Turner pick and pop three-pointers? He's a very good shooter. He's a good shooting center.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I don't think he wants to take 12 in a game. So no matter who's on him, whether it's Brook Lopez... or if I move Brooke Lopez to Siakam or Nesmith, or Nesmith rather, which they've done, whoever it is, drop back, contain Tyrese Halliburton on the pick and roll, force them to kick it back to Myles Turner, and yeah, try to get out there and contest.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I'm not going to send a third guy flying at Myles Turner and unlock the Pacers passing game, which is exactly what they want. I'm at least going to mix this in. I'm going to mix in, hey – Take a contested pick and pop three. Or what are you going to hand it off over here to Andrew Nembhard? Cool. Like do that instead. Like I don't care. I'm not putting myself in rotation.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I'm going under on Andrew Nembhard picks. I'm not going over. I'm going under. And I'm just not going to get myself in rotation so readily. I'm definitely not going to switch everything all the time. Sure. Mix it in here. They're mixing his own here or there. And, you know, we'll see. They can play around with, again, who Lopez guards. But those are just a couple –
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
That is just bonkers. And it's like... Aaron Gordon, sometimes if there's an adjustment I'm looking for, not looking for, but I'm interested to see how Denver guards the when Kawhi brings Jamal Murray's guy into the two man action. They've been mostly defaulting to just, all right, we're going to switch. We don't want to get ourselves in rotation and giving him the Jamal Murray matchup.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
a couple of throw in a trap every once in a while. You got to mix up your defenses because if you play the same defense over and over against Indiana, no matter what it is, and especially if it's switching, they're going to roast you. I don't even care who Milwaukee plays. Like none of these dudes off the bench is any kind of like silver bullet. Gary Trent Jr. He's guarding Halliburton.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
He's got no shot on Halliburton. He's a good defensive player. Fine. On the ball against Tyrese Halliburton, it's just barbecue chicken. So I don't know what the solution is, but it's not what they did. And it's a big, big moment. for the Bucks, obviously. Any parting thoughts on... Bucs Pacers. I love Pacers, by the way.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I can't believe he was a must for me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
The Bucs have not had any stretch this year in which they sustainably were like a very good team. They had stretches where they were a good team, but there was never a stretch you could point to saying, oh, if they just bottle that 10-game stretch, that's a team that can win two playoff rounds. It's never happened. That's why I picked the Pacers in this series. Dame, no Dame, whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
We'll see, though. Like, if Dame comes back and gets his win, it's a different story. To wit... Giannis as ball screener has only set 26 picks through two games. That's probably not enough because it's their best offense. 1.3 points per possession directly out of those plays. So when Giannis or the ball handler shoots or one pass away, 1.5 points per possession total.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
More Dame Giannis pick and roll. A couple other notes on this one. Indiana has 16 turnovers in two games. I think Milwaukee was dead last at forcing turnovers in the regular season. That's partly their personnel. They're old and slow. It's partly the way Doc likes to play. Indiana is just going to get a shot every possession. That's an 8% turnover rate. That's basically nothing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And just keep an eye on how they guard Giannis post-ups. They're hard doubling Giannis in the post. And the Bucs showed some adjustments in game two. They gave them a couple of touches at the nail where it's harder to double. They changed the way their cutters go through and who's one pass away to make the reads easier. But all that's window dressing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
If they can't find a way to even make Indiana think on offense, they're dead in the water. The Pacers will get a split in Milwaukee and wrap it in five. Kirk Goldsberry, any parting thoughts on all these series before I bring in the great John Krasinski to talk about Wolves-Lakers?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And Jamal Murray's got no shot. I mean, Kawhi Leonard is like a tank running over him. And I'm watching these games thinking, man, do you not want to – I know you don't want to get in rotation, but it's like if Norm Powell's the screener – I know Norm Powell can flare out for threes. Throw in some hedges. Make Kawhi pass. Make Kawhi think. Make Norm Powell make plays in space or whoever it is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Kirk Goldsberry, I know you're watching all these games. I know you're taking notes and grinding, and just it's a pleasure to talk to you. I love the NBA hat. I like the whiteboard in the background. It's great to be on the same team. Again, I'll talk to you soon, buddy. All right. Wolves-Lakers time, baby. Battle of the Lakers franchise. Battle of George Mikan. All of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I'm so excited that John Krasinski from The Athletic is here. How are you, buddy?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Such a wonderful guy. Love hanging out with you. You know, when I went to Minnesota on guy's trip, number one post getting laid off, went to a wolves game. We went out for some drinks after the game. We met for lunch the day after it was what wonderful time the drinks, the drink. What was the name of that bar? Lions Pub.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
We had a couple of memorable experiences at the Lions Pub.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
1-1. Wolves-Lakers. Wolves roll game one. Lakers kind of roll game two. Very low scoring game. Strange series. There's always a series or two where you get to game three, even game four, and you're like, I still don't quite have a feel for this one. I know what it's really about. What's been your big-picture takeaway? Minnesota's plus 13 for the series. Who cares, really?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
It's been a slow, ugly, whatever series. Have you had a big takeaway through two games?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Yeah. I mean, I think you said it organized was the key word you just said. I picked the Lakers in seven and I picked that because I called it the haywire factor. I just didn't have faith in the Wolves to not go haywire like four times for three minute stretches at critical times in the series or even non-critical. It could be first.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They went haywire in the first quarter of game two and it cost them the game. I at least know the Lakers for the most part are not going to go haywire because they have those two all time geniuses running their offense. To me, the story of game two was the wolves just completely lost the plot on offense. And like, you know what the Lakers are going to do. They're going to switch a lot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I'm interested to see that. But this is like – I mean, it's no secret that I love Kawhi as a basketball player. Yeah. I was one of eight people who voted him MVP in 2017, the year Russ won. He's played some of the best games I've ever seen in big stages, including Game 6 in Dallas in 2021, one of the best games I've ever seen anyone play for the Clippers.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
You can get pretty much any matchup you want. Now I thought the Lakers were smarter in game two about not switching all the time. And if they saw like there was a Randall Alexander Walker pick and roll, And the goal was to get, I think, Gabe Vincent switched on to Randall. Alexander Walker slipped a screen and the, and the Lakers were like, we're not actually going to switch this one.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
We're going to read this correctly and not give you the mismatch. Thought their help was a little better, whatever, you know what the bread and butter is going to be. And instead of going at Luca and instead of going at Austin Reeves, there was like Randall attacking Hachimura, Randall attacking LeBron. And he got, he got a lot of stuff out of that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Jada McDaniels going one-on-one against Austin Reeves. That's the right guy to go at wrong guy to do it. Just too much of like letting Luca off the hook and, letting Reeves off the hook, not thinking, just thoughtless basketball, which very much surprised me because in game one, they played the opposite. Did you talk to anyone about that? Like, why did that happen?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Can we stop and talk about that game?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
If people have not seen that game, and it's a random regular season game, could have been extremely costly to Minnesota. They're lucky it was not. Milwaukee was down by 24 points, I think, in the fourth quarter?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And went to a zone. And the entire league, everybody in the Western Conference in Minnesota's bracket, everyone in the Western Conference should have seen that game and put zone in their scouting report. Because this is not an exaggeration, John. I have never seen a team play worse against the zone in the NBA. If you and I were on the court, we could not have done worse.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They were just like throwing the ball to the other. It was unbelievable. Were you at that game? That was a real game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I don't understand why it takes so much thought in high-level complexity to be like, where's Luka? Just attack Luka. Or Reeves. Or Reeves. Or Gabe Vincent. Like, Nas Reed is being guarded by Gabe Vincent. Maybe give him a couple touches. Like, it's not that hard. No.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
That was for the Clippers, but for any team. And I said this with Bill the other day. I don't remember the last time I was so dead wrong about a team as I was about the Clippers. The Thunder are the franchise of the year in the NBA. If you win 68 games, that's what you are. The Clippers are the co-franchise of the year.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Now, I understand the Lakers, to your point, their help was, I think, a little bit like a step further into the paint than it was in game one, particularly when there was a non shooter on the floor. We'll get to that. Like Terrence Shannon came in and LeBron's like, I'm just not guarding Terrence Shannon Jr. We're just going to zone up off him completely.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
The Gobert thing we'll talk about in a minute. And I thought Minnesota had less off-ball movement around that stuff to confuse the help, like less flare screens, fewer cuts, fewer confusion, all that stuff. But it's still not that complicated to just find the right, to start by finding the right guy to attack the right guy. And they didn't even do that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
But the Lakers, to their credit, they're a smart team. connected defense, even when they're small. And that's the thing. Like if you just get by the first layer of defense, Hayes is going to play 10 minutes. The other 38 minutes, there is no shot blocker there. If you even count Hayes as a shot blocker, he's a goaltender. How about that goaltend?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Not a great Hayes game. There's no rim protection back there. And I just don't understand why. Like, I get what you're saying. The Lakers made it complicated. They changed coverages. They scrunched in and scrunched out. They rotate on the string. They make you think. But step one is just the right guy should attack the right guy. And that's the part. Like, I don't get why that's so hard.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I'm sure Chris Finch in the huddles is saying this stuff. I just don't understand why it's that hard to execute at least that part.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I'm going to read you some numbers. You ready? Please. Second, second spectrum tracking numbers. This is Luca pick and rolls with go bear as the guy guarding the screener. Let's go. OK, because Gobert is getting flambéed, flambéed, lambasted. Did I just make up a word? I think you did. Because everyone sees it, right? Everyone sees it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
It's very visible when a ball handler gets Gobert and Gobert is a little stilted. He's a big dude, man. Like those big dudes, it's a lot of limbs to move around. It doesn't always look great. And, you know, you get roasted on a crossover, commit a foul, step back three. Like, it's very visible. It's very obvious. And so it's the talking point after game two.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Oh, four-time defensive player of the year. Out of his comfort zone. Boy, oh, boys, here we go again. Why is he this generational defender if he can't match up? Here are the numbers. Game one, Luka Doncic against Rudy Gobert, 15 picks. 0.615 points per possession out of those picks directly. 0.77 points per possession overall. That is... Is that good? No, that's horrible. That's not good, is it?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
For this team to lose Paul George in a move that was clearly like, we just don't think this year is over. We don't know what's coming next, but this year is over. And win 50 games. in the West, not the JV East, like, yay, the Bulls won 37 games in the East, okay? This is the real varsity NBA. And go toe-to-toe with the Nuggets. and be the better team, I think, through two games.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Game two, 23 picks. 0.561. points per possession directly out of them. 0.632 points per possession overall. If you had that points per possession for a full game, for a full season, you're a G league team. You're a college team. Now, very small sample. Those numbers are somewhat deflated by spot up shooters, two passes away, missing wide open threes that it creates.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
You saw in game two, the Wolves are concerned enough that they're trying to switch Gobert out of that pick and roll while his man is on the way to screen. You'll see him point someone else, get there. So I'm not saying he's been great. I'm not saying it's not an issue. Luka has been, I've been actually very impressed with Luka's level of decisiveness.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
When he gets Gobert on him, he's not pulling the ball out and dancing and taking a million step back threes. He'll do one jab, step back Gobert, lean back like he's going to shoot. And the minute he stands you up, he's blowing by you and drawing a foul. He's been very good about that. I'm just saying the numbers are the numbers.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
There's no argument that go bears defense and all the stops all the times there was a steal. He had all the times where he forces a pass out and the defense isn't compromised. People just don't notice it because they want to notice the bloopers. Basically the numbers are what they are. This has not been a problem. In fact, I will posit this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
If Gobert is a problem in this series, it's on offense where he's a problem. And he's a problem because the Lakers are going to switch everything. Minnesota is going to pick their matchup. The Lakers are going to zone up. And it's much easier to zone up when one guy is sitting in the dunker spot and the guy who just screened for Ant
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
what let's say it's Jada McDaniels is rolling towards that big guy in the dunker spot and everything's clogged up versus when it's Randall and Reed and Randall at least is going to stand on the perimeter and everyone is going to stand on the perimeter and the reads are much easier.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And if you look at some of Randall's drives that went haywire or Edwards's drives that went haywire, like there's one,
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
like around nine minutes of the third quarter you can freeze the screen there go bears in the game mcdaniels is rolling down the lane there's nowhere for him to go i think go bears defense has been fine more than fine i think if there's something to watch it's how is he impacting their spacing on offense just because of the way the lakers are defending that's my hot take john krasinski it's not even that hot it's not a hot take i'm giving you a clap for it because it it
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And I just, I thought, I took the under. I thought it was over. I'm like, without Paul George, it's going to be like Harden holding down the fort when Kawhi is inevitably injured. This feels just like a nice little cute placeholder until we figure out what the next iteration of the team is. And here they are. And they nailed every free agent signing. Derek Jones, Chris Dunn, on and on.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
It's funny. You mentioned the Randall passes to him and the ant passes to him because, you know, I remember joking midway through the season. Like you could, you could have made a really fun compilation of go bear calling for the ball wide open and Randall not passing to him. Yes. And part of it is because those are tricky passes to make right there. They're thread, the needle lobs, whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And part of it is like, I bet if you got them, honestly, you know, in a moment of honesty, Ant, Randall, I don't think they trust him to do enough with the ball. I think they intentionally are like, I don't think I want to pass to you right now. It's like watching Kawhi and Ben Simmons right now. You can see Kawhi be like, yeah, they're loading off you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I think I'm just going to hold on to this one for now, buddy. Can you just get out of the way? And they did involve him more as the season, particularly the last two, three weeks. But you mentioned offensive rebound. If the Lakers are going to go small, the Wolves have to win that. And we should mention that the entire Wolves team was in foul trouble in game two.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And I thought the DiVincenzo foul trouble and Reed foul trouble was a big deal. One of the things I like about DiVincenzo in this matchup is they play faster when he's on the floor. And I think... talk about one way to beat a complex zone of pretty big guys that know how to help just get out ahead of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And I thought when DiVincenzo was in the game, they did a good job of just like, we're going to fly up the floor and just see what happens.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
My Randall rule is you don't get to my Randall rule. The Randall rule on this podcast is Julius Randall. You only get to attack when you get a mismatch and he violated it over and over again in game two. And he got stuff against Rui and LeBron. Like he came to play and he did his job.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Ty Lue is as good as it gets in the NBA. But it doesn't work at this level without this Kawhi. And I just never thought we'd see it again for a sustained period of time. He's been unbelievable.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Yeah. I mean, they played super hard. LeBron has been awesome on defense for the last 40, 50 games of the season. Offensively does not look great. I had a bad game one, eight of 19 in game two.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
hasn't been able to find a bully ball groove i think they should hunt conley more than they have like when conley's on the floor they're not going at him enough i expect that to change a little bit but if lebron doesn't play better like reeves missed great shots in game two all six of his threes he missed they were all good shots for the maybe five of them were good shots
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I don't worry about Reese. He's going to give you what he gives you as the third guy. If LeBron doesn't play better, I think Minnesota's in good shape in this series. But I honestly, like, I have no clue what's coming next in this series. I have no feel for this series at all. It's been a very strange... It's been a very strange two games. You mentioned...
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I just think if I'm the wolves, I want to speed the series up. I want to run, run, run. And like, there was one play where they got to stop. I can't remember when it was. And Devin Chenzo just flew up the floor and hit it ahead to Ant and Ant attacked Devin. I think Randall was in the post and Ant just dribbled around.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They tried to front Randall and Ant immediately was just like, I'm going around you. I'm going around both of you and laid the ball up and in. And it was just before the defense could get set. And DiVincenzo made the play and Ant continued to play. How about that Ant dunk, by the way, on Jackson Hayes? That was like... That was a leap out of your chair, Dunk.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
What are the best ones? There's the John Collins one.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
You know what? Yeah, there are children. Won't someone think of the children? I sound like Reverend Lovejoy's wife on The Simpsons. Won't someone please think of the children? However... One of my rule minus something that obviously crosses a line, right? Minus something that's, that's, we all, we all know where those lines are.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
If a fan in like the first three rows is just relentlessly going at you and making it personal. I think you should have carte blanche up to those lines to fire back at them. I have a corollary to that. I call it the Steven Jackson rule. In the 2012 Western Conference Finals, Steven Jackson made a corner three. He was playing for the Spurs. And he made it right in front of the Thunder bench.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Hope you enjoy it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And he turned around and he yapped to the Thunder bench. And he got teed up for it. And he did it because they were all telling him, you can't shoot, it's a brick, whatever. You should have carte blanche to be able to talk to the other bench. I don't care what you say. So if these fans are going, I don't know. Has he been fined a million dollars combined this year? How many are we up to?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Hey, at least it's a career achievement. Fine. And not like, you know, like I have no empathy for the guys who yap at the refs all the time. Like Luca, for instance, like Luca, when he got ejected from that game, who was that in Oklahoma city, right? Was that in Oklahoma city? When he got it, that was ridiculous because he was talking to a fan and not the ref and
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
The ref is obviously going to think you're talking to him because you talk to him all the time. Draymond getting, quote, unfavorable treatment from the road. First of all, he doesn't because Draymond cannot possibly get ejected for you. You could clothesline someone and not get it. You could hit someone with a DDT and not get ejected. I guess not.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I guess he did get suspended for hitting people last year. But you know what I mean? Yeah. you know, just like John Moran getting fined for the gestures. Like, yeah, no, yeah. That's you brought that one on yourself. Okay. Big picture. Last question. I'm more, I'm most curious about this game three, maybe of all series other than nuggets Clippers tonight.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And part of the reason is the series feels like a black box to me still, but I mean, it's, it's, it's easy to get into the weeds and, and we've gotten into the weeds, but, Like there's a path to the conference finals here for these teams. They're in the better side of the bracket. The winner will get either the Rockets who are untested or the Warriors.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And we'll see what the Jimmy Butler's MRI shows, but it's not like they're an unbeatable juggernaut, despite their record with Butler and Curry. And Minnesota is kind of this fun, like this funky team where they made this huge town's trade before the season. They kind of have an up and down and they're like three games over 560 games into the season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They finished super strong and barely get out of the play in like the Warriors do them a favor by dropping a couple games to get out of the plant. And they don't feel like a contender because of the up and down nature of their season, because of the trade, because they're the sixth seed, but they're a pretty goddamn good team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And there's a pathway for them to get it together and get pretty far in the playoffs to get as far as they did last year. Like I do like it's the stakes are, are big in, in these games coming up in Minnesota. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
They're also facing a legit, very good team with incredible top end talent who made some good adjustments in game two, who ran a little bit more of their sort of pet sets where the three stars cooperate and screen for each other. And they got some good openings that way. LeBron got a three. LeBron got a long two. Finney Smith got a back cut that led somewhere.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
All through them cooperating with each other, simultaneous action on the ball, off the ball, lean into that more consistently. But yeah, it's a big, high stakes, very strange series. I'm excited for game three. John Krasinski of The Athletic, John Krasinski's show, his podcast. I've said it before. There is no better beat writer in the NBA than you. It's an honor to have you on.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
It's great to see you. Who knows? Maybe in six weeks, we'll be back at the Lions. The Lions, what?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Oh, that's a good invitation. John Krasinski, everybody. Thank you, sir. All right. That's it for today. Enjoy the games over the weekend. We'll be back first thing in the morning Monday to recap what promises to be another crazy NBA weekend full of high stakes games. Thanks for listening to the Zach Lowe Show.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
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Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
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The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Well, OK, start here. I'm fascinated by how Denver responds to a game that was a very frustrating loss for them. There was some tension in that locker room after game two from what I've heard from a bunch of people who were there. And some of it was just normal frustration after a tough loss. Some of it was like, oh, OK. And this is a team whose rotation is very short.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
who plays three guys that the Clippers respect as potential outside shooters. Murray, Jokic, and Michael Porter Jr., Two of those guys run pick and roll together, which is great. It's the best two-man game in the league. The numbers are off the charts for it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
But when they do run two-man game together, that means two of those three shooters are on the ball, essentially, and no one else gets any attention. And so there's this sort of battle there where the Clippers have all these responses to the Murray-Jokic pick and roll. And no matter what it is, it's swarming the most threatening stuff in the middle of the floor.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
You take one of those three guys off the floor, Michael Porter Jr., who responded nicely in Game 2, The shooting quotient dials down to an urgent crisis level. And they do it for defense. They do it because it allows Jamal Murray to guard Chris Dunn instead of Norm Powell. But I'm just, you know, I'm fascinated by how they respond. Can Jokic get a little more momentum going in the post?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
He's starting to get, I mean, Zu, Zu's unbelievable on both ends of the floor. I'm so happy for him. He might make all NBA. He might actually make it. Stan Van Gundy mentioned he voted for him, third team. He makes Jokic work so hard, and yet 22 post-ups for Jokic in the series, 1.28 points per possession, or 1.25 points per possession thereabouts. Very good number.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
He's starting to get a little momentum there. You know, Denver's – this was one of the first games – where I thought Jokic looked tired at points in the game. We played the entire second half, and I flagged a couple of pick and rolls that I think were in the third quarter. And as I mentioned, Murray-Jokic two-man game is a very stressful play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
The Clippers' default strategy against that has been to kind of late switch it, to try to contain it, and then late switch it. And then Jokic can exploit that with post-ups on their guards, etc. A couple times in the third quarter, Jokic did something which he rarely ever does, which is not pop to three and not roll to floater range. He just kind of stood 19, 20 feet from the basket.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
And you can see Zubats being like, oh, awesome. I can just drop back. And like worst case scenario is he gets an open 19 footer or semi open. And so I'm interested in how much gas does he have enough gas to do this over and over again? 43, 44, 45 minutes. Who's going to help him along for the ride? How do they respond? And then. Yeah, I don't know. What are you looking for from either team?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
Who needs it? Actually, I do. Okay, briefly, last night, here are the most important things that happened. We'll circle back. We'll circle back to all this stuff. Jalen Brown, massive statement. I'm here. I'm healthy. I'm ready to explode for 42 minutes with Jason Tatum out. And massively important sign for the Celtics, bloodied Kristaps Porzingis was a fun thing that happened.
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
I mean, what's an adjustment? What's something?
The Zach Lowe Show
Huge Playoff Takeaways With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus a Deep Dive Into Wolves-Lakers With Jon Krawczynski
One of my least favorite chants in the whole league when they do, L-A-C. It's not happening. It's a horrible chant. Don't do it.
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I think, yes. And I think that this was a game that Rick Carlisle coached circles around Tom Thibodeau. I thought this was a really good Rick Carlisle coaching game. And I'll give you a couple of things that stood out to me in addition to what you said there. It's subtle, but the use of challenges in this game turned out to be really important.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Tibbs wasted his challenge early on an idiotic challenge. The play on Brunson that they lost the challenge...
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
It was an offensive foul. Brunson on Neesmith where Brunson gave kind of a shoulder shrug. And you can see it on the first replay where he's extending his arm. Even though it's close, when you do the arm extend, no referee's going to overturn that. That was a waste. They lost the challenge. Couldn't use any of the rest of the game. The Pacers used two challenges at the very end
The Zach Lowe Show
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that turned out to be huge, huge challenges. There was the foul call on Siakam on Ananobi, which they got right. He got the ball first on there. There was the out-of-bounds play. That if either one of those goes against Indiana, that game's over. They don't win that game. They needed both of those calls. to go their way.
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The other one, I still, and I was in the Tibbs press conference, I didn't get a chance to, I think he was asked about it, but kind of gave a grunt for an answer. But the decision not to foul Obi Toppin at the end of overtime, when Toppin had a kind of a straight line to the basket there for that dunk to put him up three.
The Zach Lowe Show
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When he made the catch, they didn't aggressively go for him in that moment. I'm like you. I was texting a bunch of different assistants in real time. I think what Tibbs was trying to do early was to get one trap in with 14 seconds left, see if he can get a steal, and then go for it. But that blew up in their face enormously. Getting that dunk
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
That wasn't the game, but that was a decisive play at the end of overtime. And I give Rick Carlisle a lot of credit for all the things you were talking about that he drew up and confused the Knicks on with those open looks they got at the end of the fourth quarter. And the use of challenges. I think about this stuff all the time with challenges.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Coaches that use their challenge early in games, I don't get it. You need to save... all your weaponry for end of fourth quarter and potential overtime. Occasionally, yeah, if you've got a third foul on the superstar, you've got to keep him in the game. Then I understand using a challenge. But Tibbs wasted his challenge early on a nothing offensive foul call on Jalen Brunson.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
And Rick Carlisle had two of his in the bag, used them, and that helped the Pacers win the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Oh, yeah. Grab the arm.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Wild.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Yeah, I thought it was a clear goaltend.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Well, this is why the reflex of officials in those moments is to call the goaltend, because then they can review it and make sure that they got it right. Like you said, when they don't call the goaltend, there's no choice. There was some confusion I saw watching it back on the TNT broadcast.
The Zach Lowe Show
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The TNT broadcast thought the stoppage of play was reviewing the goaltend, when in reality, they were watching the line. The referees, they could stop the play to look and see if the Nembhard shot, if his foot was on the line or not in those situations. That's what they were reviewing. Yeah, when I talk to referees and people in the NBA about that particular call, they'll tell me, like,
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
If it's close, they're going to try to call the goaltend so they can go back and review it and see if it was an actual goaltend or a legal play. That was another game changer in that moment because Neymar did come down, change the momentum once again. Like I said, it was a perfect storm, man. Everything went right for the Indiana Pacers and everything went wrong for the New York Knicks.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
It's down. It's down seven with less than a minute to go. The record is like four and 1,640. And the Pacers have three of those wins in this postseason. And I think that they're the first team out of, like, 900 and something to be down, like, 14 with under two minutes left in the playoffs and still win a game.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Like, they are... The team of Desti stuff is legitimate because they are... They're doing things that really nobody has ever seen before up until this point. I mean, that moment...
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I'm with you because I left and I was sitting there in the press room and I'm going to throw these people under the bus with Howard Beck, with Rachel Nichols, with Dan Devine, a whole bunch of people, Michael Pena, all gathered around the TV.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
You're the last man standing, dude. But we're watching, and like you said, on TV, the ball goes up, and it's up in the air. And the crowd reaction is like a split second ahead of the TV. So we can hear the crowd roar for a second, you know, a brief second, thinking it's a miss, then go, ah, and the air come out of them as the ball drops in the hoop.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
And then, I mean, just to have Halliburton, who you know was waiting for the opportunity to do that choke sign. I don't know how long he's been waiting, months, years, his whole life since he watched Winning Time back in 2010. But he's been waiting for this kind of opportunity to do that. To do that with Reggie like 15 feet away and Reggie on the broadcast just laughing. Laughing. He had no words.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Yeah. had no words he just starts laughing to do it in that moment I mean you could not have scripted outside of his toe you know being Kevin Durant size and just just barely missing the edge of that three point line you couldn't have scripted it any better so
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Yeah, he was led into that. He was led into that answer. I think somebody asked him, which I think is idiotic. Like, who cares? Like, that's what you do. I mean, everybody celebrates that. Like, does anybody get mad when Jalen Brunson, you know, does the face thing after he makes a big shot? Like, big deal.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
He should have gone at Giannis.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I go the other way on that one. I mean, he could have started another malice in the palace right there. Imagine Giannis doesn't have a little more self-control and just punches. And I assume he knew that was Halliburton's dad in that moment. But if he didn't, he could have dropped him like...
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I think we covered... I mean, I would add to... Like, you brought it up right there. The incredibleness of...
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Halliburton with seven and change seconds left, dribbling the length of the floor, getting past Bridges who made a bad defensive play on that, tried to go for that reach around there, seeing Mitchell Robinson in real time, deciding in a split second that he wasn't going to take this shot, backing up and shooting kind of a one footer.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Like it was, it wasn't like the set shot that he took beyond the three point. Like it was a wild shot. In fact, like, Every coach will tell you that was a bad decision that Tyrese Halliburton made. You see Mitchell Robinson go to the basket, try to create contact, try to get an easy bucket or go to the free throw line. He chooses to do a 180, wheel around, and go back behind the three-point line.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
So, first off, I've got to lean all the way into...
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
That was absolutely wild. One of the wildest decisions that I've seen in these playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
the fact that i did leave early right like and it wasn't the arena you just left press row yeah because when as you know like when you leave the garden press seats you you've got to go through like the concourse you've got to go down i went down an escalator and i assumed it would be madness going down the escalator if i left right at the final buzzer so
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Yeah, I thought it was too early. And who was it? OG that committed the foul? He went for it right away. Yes. He went for the foul. So that was clearly the instructions coming out of the huddle. I would have liked to have seen OG kind of, once he got Neesmith in front of him, square him up there, let him kind of pivot, let him move around. Obviously, you've got to... It's a tough...
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
It's a tough play to make there because you've got to be careful not to foul on the three-point shot. So in a sense, he got it right because he got him early before Neesmith went up into the shooting motion, but that was way too much time left in the clock. It allowed way too much to happen over the next two possessions. Yeah, I thought it was too early.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I think in hindsight, you want to let him dribble four, five, six times, get it down to seven, eight seconds, and then you pick up the foul. That cost the Knicks for sure.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
That ball was just bouncing around for three seconds when Brunson threw it. He tried to whack it off him out of bounds, and it just bounced in the middle of the court until we finally see a white jersey come up and grab it. There were so many wild sequences that went on in that game.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I don't know if you need to adjust too much or do anything radical. I mean, Brunson had an outstanding game. Towns had a strong game. OG didn't play well.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Your stars showed up. OG was inconsistent for three quarters, but he made those big buckets in the fourth. I don't know. I mean... Big picture, like, I don't overreact to the outcome of that game. Like, I just... I get my team mentally past it and say, look, we did a lot of things right in this game. We had a big opportunity with the kind of lead that we had in that moment.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
We just gagged it away with uncharacteristically bad plays. I mean, you think about it. Not just... Not just any team, Zach, that has a 14-point lead. A team with Jalen Brunson on it has a 14-point lead with two minutes left. That's the last team in the NBA right now that you would expect to blow a lead like that. I don't overreact to too much in this moment.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
You obviously want to shift some coverages there. You can't let Neesmith get off like that. I think TJ McConnell on Jalen Brunson is a mistake. That didn't really work very much in game one. for the Pacers anyway. So maybe you try to take advantage of that more if they go back to that well. But otherwise, I just think you try to put it past you mentally and go into game two with the same mindset.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I didn't just leave with 58 seconds left, Zach. I left with two minutes and 51 seconds left. Like when there was a 14 point lead.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I've got an adjustment. I've got an adjustment. I just thought of that. Of course. The adjustment is like, I think you were about to go there, but so sorry. But the hunting Halliburton would be one adjustment I would make if I was New York. That was one that kept coming up in some of my text messages over the course of the game. And look, the Pacers...
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
they're able to avoid that hunt a lot by pressing, by forcing the Knicks to get into offense late. It takes away some of the ability to kind of look for those matchups. Plus, I think Brunson kind of likes going up against the Nembards. I think he kind of likes that matchup. But if I'm New York, I've got to try to take advantage of Halliburton.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Because every time he wound up in a bad matchup against Brunson or against Cat, he either fouled or looked bad on it. He's just not defensively capable of of playing on that level. So that would be one. Finding Halliburton more on the floor, hunting him, maybe getting him into foul trouble, I would try to go for that more.
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I was gone. I was gone. I was out the door. And it gets worse. Like when I was making my way down the escalator, I made an Instagram video praising Knicks fans for not leaving early. Like most arenas, you see fans with a double-digit lead with a couple of minutes left, and they're trying to beat the traffic. Not these Knicks fans. They're dedicated.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I would agree with that. I kept looking at the rebounding numbers in real time during the game, expecting there to be a bigger gap. They were closer than I thought they were, but it did feel like every time Robinson and Towns was on the floor, there was second-chance opportunities. They were just clogging up the middle. They were creating a lot of problems for Indiana on that glass.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I would go back to that a little bit more. Mitchell Robinson has been such a difference-maker. for them in the playoffs. What was he in the Boston series? Plus 40-something in that series. He was awesome there. I think the more minutes you can give him, I think would be the better. Regardless of who's on the floor, they don't want to get into a fast-paced game with, with Indiana.
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Like they want to slow the game down one way or the other. So if you can find a way to keep Robinson and towns out there for, for longer minutes and not get, you know, the doors blown off you in transition, I would do it because I think, I think Robinson is going to lead to so many more second chance opportunities than the Knicks. They just eat the Pacers lunch on those second chance opportunities.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I actually took video of the vacant hallway that I was in, the vacant escalators. that I was on. I was so complimentary of Knicks fans in that moment. So I get down to the pressure minutes, like an eight-point game at that point. We'll unpack this, but my reaction, the Neesmith stuff was some of the most incredible stuff that I've ever seen to the point where as I'm processing it,
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YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
You know, one of the notes I made during game one and, and, We've seen this a little bit last year as well. When you watch Siakam and Ananobi go at each other, do you feel like you're seeing a Toronto practice? They both seem to know where the other one's trying to go. And there's a couple of times, I think Siakam had a couple of deflections when Ananobi was going to the rim.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I think Ananobi had one good play on there. They just seem to know each other so well that it's kind of a wash on those matchups when they go one-on-one.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I can say two things. One... I don't care what the score is in game two. I'll be sitting right beside you up there on the chase bridge. I'm not getting out of my seat in game two. I've been trying to think of what I would compare that comeback to, things that I've seen.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
All I can go back to is my old ball boy days with the Celtics back in 2002 when the Celtics nets, I think it was game three of that conference semifinals or finals when the Celtics made that 21-point run to come back and have the greatest fourth quarter comeback at that point in NBA playoff history. That's the only thing I can compare it to.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
It was such an improbable, wild scene to witness firsthand, sort of firsthand from a TV in the press room.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
In real time, when I'm writing, I'm texting members of the Celtics coaching staff from the two years Aaron Neesmith was there. And I'm like, what did you guys miss? Did you think this guy could happen? How did you not play him over Romeo Lankford all those minutes? I'm going at guys from Brad Stephens' staff. I'm going at guys from Ime Udoka's staff. Like, I...
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Here's the last question I would ask you. And we debated this in the press room. Should the group of us have gone back to our seats at the start of overtime?
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Should we have? We could have. We could have walked right back up.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Anytime, Zach.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
just asking them how it's possible that this guy that couldn't get any burn his first couple of years in boston uh all of a sudden is looking like game six clay in game one it wasn't even game six clay like he fell over like he was falling over on half the threes he made five threes in like a what seemed like 10 seconds um so here's my version of that story
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
It was wild. I woke up this morning because most of these coaches are on vacation or in bed or whatever. And I woke up this morning to a flurry of responses, some of which were like, shut the hell up. We didn't know back then.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
But some was like, this guy, one coach texted me back and was like, this guy was a bowling ball on defense who tried harder than everybody else on the team, but just couldn't put it all together. Somehow over the last three years in Indiana, look, and in fairness, he was like a 30-ish percent three-point shooter in Boston. I think the last year was 20-something.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
And evolved into a 40 plus percent three point shooter in in Indiana. It's just it's remarkable. He is I don't know where you put him up there, but in terms of two way players, he's one of the best two way players right now. You know, certainly left in the playoffs, maybe on a short list in the game, but just unbelievable.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I did not know what that was until he said it.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
I can't wait to see. It was such a perfect storm of awfulness for the Knicks over those last 10 minutes because like, Up until the start of the fourth quarter, the story after two and a half, three minutes is how the Pacers blew a golden opportunity to win the game. Jalen Brunson goes out with five fouls, dumb fifth foul on T.J. McConnell. He goes out of the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
You start wondering, where is that offense going to come from? Oh, Giannoubi rips off five points. The Pacers commit two stupid fouls. on three pointers. That's the story right there. And then just everything that could possibly go wrong after that goes wrong. Like Josh Hart falls, falls down defending knee Smith. Jalen Brunson commits uncharacteristic turnovers.
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
Mikhail Bridges made some bad defensive plays. The two split free throws with Ananobi and Carl Towns, like everything is,
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
that could have gone wrong for the Knicks went wrong I mean I'd like to think that they can put this behind them because they're as mentally tough a team as I've seen in the postseason like they've got some some dogs in that group guys that have been through a lot and this year alone like Bridges what he's gone through in this year Cat what he's gone through over the last year I'd like to think that they're mentally tough enough to come back from this but I also think that
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
they might not be as good as the Pacers. I mean, the Pacers, that unconventional style, playing 10, 11 guys, pressing like a college team. It's weird, but it works. And I look at this matchup, and if I could just pick the better team in this moment, I would still pick Indiana to be the better team. So I don't know. It's a long way of saying I think they –
The Zach Lowe Show
YES 'CERS!! Last Night’s Crazy Comeback With Chris Mannix. Plus, Some Intriguing Offseason Teams With John Hollinger.
They're going to be able to mentally bounce back, but this just might be a really bad matchup for them overall.
The Zach Lowe Show
Play-In Reaction, More Playoff Previews, and Final Awards Ballots With Michael Pina
Can I throw one at you? Sure. It's not a very bullsy move.
The Zach Lowe Show
Play-In Reaction, More Playoff Previews, and Final Awards Ballots With Michael Pina
So Rockets in seven. I think it's going to be a long series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Play-In Reaction, More Playoff Previews, and Final Awards Ballots With Michael Pina
Sure.
The Zach Lowe Show
Play-In Reaction, More Playoff Previews, and Final Awards Ballots With Michael Pina
Here's where I went in the end.
The Zach Lowe Show
Play-In Reaction, More Playoff Previews, and Final Awards Ballots With Michael Pina
Oh, wow. Okay. I think Nixon's seven.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
I was in L.A. two, three weeks ago when they played the Nuggets. It was a game that the Nuggets sat everybody. And I was with a lot of the Lakers heavy hitters before the game. And they're like giddy. They're like teenagers. They can't even believe the good fortune that has fallen into their laps. They had to work for it and nurture the deal and make sure it didn't fall apart.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
I don't mean to imply that they did no work for it. But they're like, they can't believe it. their luck and their good fortune to have this player on their team. Did you see any, uh, was security active last night? Did you see any, I mean, obviously the fire Nico chance, the signs, I saw signs, I saw shirts. They, they, they,
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Did they just take a, you know what, this is a night we're just going to let it fly?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
It's pain, man.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
You've written a lot about the pain. You've written a lot about the gradual erosion of the Luka Doncic support system within the Mavericks organization, including Mark Cuban selling the team and ultimately losing control of the team and Casey Smith, the head trainer's unceremonious departure and many other little drops of like, ooh, ooh, ooh.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
I haven't seen as much about, and I'm curious if you have any intel, there hasn't been a lot about what was the level of debate within, if at all, within the organization? Because there was this narrative that, well, nobody knew. Even Jason Kidd didn't know until the midnight hour. Mark Cuban was obviously on the outside, was told at the last minute.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
was it actually this unilateral or was there, was, was there an opportunity for anyone within the organization to push back and say, Hey, whoa.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
What a moment last night in Dallas. A worst case scenario for Nico Harrison and the Mavericks where the entire crowd is cheering for Luka. Luka is... in a way that actually surprised me. I assume they were showing it on the Jumbotron when they showed the video showing his reaction. He looked legitimately hurt. I mean, vulnerable and hurt and just naked for the world to see.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
No. You know how I know they didn't? Because he plays for the Lakers now. Yeah. Look, I think we're two months distant from this now. There was the whirlwind of crazy conspiracy theories that filled this void of a rational explanation. Those have fallen by the wayside. And I think.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
all along I've said this, I think the simplest explanation is the actual explanation, which is Niko Harrison just didn't think Luka Doncic was his kind of superstar. He wasn't a Kobe Bryant kind of superstar.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
He didn't fit his mold of how a superstar is supposed to conduct himself on and off the court to the standard, the incredibly high standard that flowed down from Niko Harrison's relationship with Kobe Bryant. And there are two ands. And number one is, and was about to cycle on to the biggest contract in the history of the NBA, which only the Mavericks could offer him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
That was their own sort of golden handcuffs. And he was injured. And the injury perhaps made the Mavericks sink. We have a window right now with Kyrie Irving. We're not sure that this guy is going to be healthy enough to fulfill that window. Let's trade him for a superstar who fits that window and try to win immediately. Now, I have already said...
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
That doesn't pass my personal smell test because Luka Doncic is better than Anthony Davis. You were just in the NBA finals with Luka Doncic winning Western Conference Finals MVP.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
You were just in the conference finals two seasons ago with Luka Doncic as the best player on a completely inferior team to the one that made the finals last year, which you brought the entirety of essentially back for this year. And yes, when they were healthy at the beginning of the year, this part of the season is the one that has just been lost to history because so much has happened.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
and they weren't healthy that often, they looked every bit the kind of team ready to give it an honest run back and defend their Western conference championship. They looked awesome when they were healthy with Kyrie and Luca and everything that they had amassed in PJ Washington and Gafford and all of that. And then they just sort of lit it on fire.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And the idea that, so I reject the idea that even in the short term, this would have increased their championship equity. I totally disagree. And,
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Even if you posit that it's the same-ish, the reduction in your long-term championship equity is so catastrophic and leaves you so vulnerable to a short-term wave of injuries, which has now happened and vaporized this season and maybe vaporized next season that I still can't believe this trade happened. And that said... And this gets back to the specific return that they sought out.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
You can find people, and you know this as well as I do, you can find people around the league on other teams, smart people, smart front office people, smart scouts, who will say, even now, even in the light of day, even with the 45-point performance in bed, will say, it's not crazy that Nico Harrison decided, I'm not sure that we want to be in the business of paying Luka Doncic $70 million a year.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Like, let's see what we can get for him. What's really crazy, what the real issue that these people have, and this is the crux of it, is just not shopping him around the league and seeing what the real return could be. What are the Nets going to give us? What are the Rockets going to give us? What are these? Can we get nine first-round picks? Now, I wouldn't even have gone that far.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Like, I just wouldn't trade Luka Doncic. That would be my hot take on being a GM, just I wouldn't trade him. But you can find people who would say entertaining. It's not crazy given his off court habits and this and that, but the return is just what it is. And now they're just left. This is a morose fan base now, and I do think we can spin it forward.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
There's a good team in here when Kyrie Irving, if and when Kyrie Irving returns healthy. They're big, they're nasty, they're talented. They have potentially three first-round picks to trade. Their pick this draft, the Lakers pick they got for Luka, and their 2031 pick, they also... Oh, some draft assets we can talk about. Where do you think they go from here?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Like is, how do you, I don't even like Kyrie has a player option next season. He could opt in and extend. He could opt out and sign a long-term deal. PJ Washington's extension eligible. There's going to be Kevin Durant talk. I'm not sure how realistic that is, especially given the unknown of is Kyrie coming back next season. What condition is he going to be in?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Where is, where, where, where do we go from here, Mark?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Like every part of someone who did not want ever to leave Dallas and was indeed ready to buy a house, as you've written, in your newsletter, which everyone should subscribe to, and sign on the dotted line for $70 million a year when the Supermax inevitably hit his agent's Bill Duffy's email box.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the numerous resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 or over and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. What's up, everybody?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
What do you think happens with Kyrie Irving this summer contractually?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And he's returning from injury still.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And then he goes out and drops 45 points on the Dallas Mavericks while Anthony Davis sort of lopes around, looking a little stiff, a little slow, and as he has since he got to Dallas, taking a lot of mid-range jumpers because he's playing a lot of four as we're in year 10 of somehow still arguing what Anthony Davis' best position is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Well, look, if, if they had done nothing and a similar wave of injuries had struck this theoretical intact Mavericks team, you could have just said, yeah, look, shit happens. Lucas 25, 26. We got a long runway here. Trade happens. And as I've said many times, same wave of injuries happens. And it's,
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
you look at the age of the team and the age of the players, they're not ancient, but they're not 25 and 26. And you're like, We can't afford to lose a season like this, and we can't afford to lose next season. The clock is ticking and ticking very loudly.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
I've heard a little bit of the same pushback on Durant, just the idea that we'd have to think pretty hard about boxing ourselves into three huge salaries like that, given how many players we'd have to trade to make it work, how many guys like PJ Washington are extension eligible. They also... You know, look, how many of your future firsts do you actually want to trade?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Because you're already out your 29 pick from the Kyrie deal. You're already out a 28 swap to Oklahoma City, which helped you get the pick that you traded for Gafford. You're already out a 27 top two protected pick, which was to Charlotte for P.J. Washington. Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
All along, the fire Nico chants are raining from all over the arena, so loud and so unmissable that even the most polite, positive person in the NBA says, Mike Breen calling the game on ESPN is forced to acknowledge them multiple times. Mr. Stein, you were there. I saw you in your usual perch there sitting right behind Rob Polinka, sitting right behind Bill Duffy.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Just I mean, we saw the game on TV. So I saw the game on TV. So I got I have the scenes that were broadcast to me. What are you going to remember from that night that you got from sitting in that seat and walking around that arena that I couldn't have got from watching on TV? What's going to stick out to you?
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
All right, it's awards time. I already went through my tentative All-NBA MVP, although I still need to finalize those. I thought I would do some fun ones with you. We're going to do the rookies, sixth man, and coach. Are you ready, Mr. Goldsberry? I am totally ready, Zach Lowe. I put a lot of thought into my all-rookie teams. Second team all-rookie, as always.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Some deep cuts in second team all-rookie. However, I'm very happy with where I am. I'm satisfied with where I ended up. It does make me sad that we have the same amount of teams for rookies, and there's obviously a very limited pool of rookies. It's first-year players. That's it. I think there's only – I have my basketball reference search.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Only 26 rookies played over 800 minutes, I think, is what I have this year. So, like, you know, not that many players. And also two all defense teams for all the defenders in the entire NBA. And like, I'm sorry, Tumani Kamara and Derek White and maybe Bam Adebayo. Like, I can't. If there were a third team, I would love to honor some of you, but I can't. But I'm very happy with my all rookie teams.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
We have not reviewed these with each other. I'm going to predict we go nine out of ten and we have the same first team and one difference on the second team. And I have no idea which it is. So I want you to kick it off. Give me your first team all rookie. And at the end of this, we will do rookie of the year.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Right off the bat, I was incorrect. We are not five for five on the first team. Who do you think you have on your first team that I do not have on my first team? Because we are four out of five. Saar. Saar. Alex Saar is on my second team. Can you guess who I have in his place? And I did not even think about it that hard. Kahlil Ware. Yes. Okay, so at least we're on the same page there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
So we both have Castle, Wells, Risa Shea, Eadie. I feel really good with Kahlil Ware. He is number two in player efficiency rating, nine points a game, shooting 63% on twos. Obviously, his efficiency edge over Saar is cataclysmically large and due in large part to his role and his team. He is, however, out shooting Saar on threes, which I think matters.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And I just I just feel like he's been better and he's played in real meaningful games. But make the case for Alexander Saar, who is on my second team all rookie. And I'm going to say nice things about him eventually. I promise Wiz fans, if there are any of you left other than Joe House, I promise I will say some nice things.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Uh, 13 points a game, that's second among rookies. 40% shooting, you are willing to forgive because he's taking so many threes. 31% on threes is, like, bad, but it's actually not that bad considering he's a rookie, he's a center, and he plays for a team that's intentionally trying to lose basketball games.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And here's, like, all the advanced stats are going to hate rookies like Saar who take a lot of shots on bad teams. They're just going to. They're going to look bad.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
He has passed every eye test to me as a rookie and particularly on a team where he's got mostly young players in Jordan Poole setting him up on offense and and frankly, like leaving him out to dry sometimes on defense as a rim protector. look, he's not great.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
No one should expect him to be great right out of the bat, but I've seen enough in terms of his speed, his agility, his timing to like, okay, that's going to be there. The jump shot looks fine to me for, for a seven foot rookie to shoot 31% from three on high volume on a team that doesn't really bend the opposing defense so much. I like that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
You know what else I like two and a half assists a game as, as a rookie center on a bad team, like, The DHO game from the elbows, he's picking out cutters. He can bring the ball up and transition some. I mean, you don't want to overdo that, but, you know, he can do it. The all around skill is there. And if you want to reward him with first team.
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Now, I don't think top three and rookie of the year I could get there. But if you want to reward him first team and say, look, the efficiency stats are what they are. The shooting stats are what they are. Look at the roster around him. I can't really get mad at that because, again, he has passed the eye test to me. I think this is going to end up being a good draft pick for the Washington Wizards.
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He was sort of viewed as a both consensus top three pick and a like, ooh, this could go really badly if it busts pick. This is not going to be a bust. Alex Starr is going to be a good player.
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Honestly, the most important question for the Wizards this entire season – well, the most important one is how does the lottery end? The second most important one is do we come out of the season feeling like we have a stretch five, that we can be a team built in the vision of five-out offense with rim protection on defense and even playmaking at the 5-2? And the answer, I think, is yes.
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Going forward, you can assume that, and that's a huge win for the Wiz. Before we get to the second team, do you have any – other Wizards rookies on your second team. Did either of the two candidates make your cut? Yes. Oh, wow. We're going to be way different than you, than I anticipated because I had neither. Bub Carrington, nor Keyshawn George on my second team. You had Bub?
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Second team, I mean, you could talk me into 18 guys almost. It's like I have an almost others receiving votes list that's quite long, but I'm going to talk about who my miscuts were. So I did not have Keyshawn George or Bub Carrington on my second team. So let's just go through your second team now. So Carrington, Ware, who are the other three? Collier, Missy, Klingon.
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Okay, so you have, hold on. You have Ware, Carrington, Isaiah Collier from the Jazz. Yeah, Missy. Donovan Klingin and Yves Missy. Yeah. Okay, we're actually not that far off. My second team is Yves Missy from the Pelicans. Donovan Klingin, who I think is going to be a controversial choice, which we can talk about why. I have Matas Bouzelis from the Bulls. Saar.
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And I went with the other Jazz rookie. Kyle Filipowski over Collier. And I realize Collier has become kind of a choice du jour. He leads all rookies in assists. He is definitely on an upward trajectory. The first two months of the season were just a haze of turnovers in every possible direction of every variety. And he's kind of settled in now.
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The assist to turnover ratio is trending the right way. He's averaging almost 10 points a game. The shooting numbers, he's up to 50% on twos, 24.9% on threes. I don't hate it. The advanced stats are massively negative on him, primarily because he has the highest turnover rate among rookies by a mile. I went Filipowski, who's played 400 fewer minutes. I get it. Same amount of points.
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I just like 50% shooting, 60% on twos, 35.5% on threes. And for his position, he's as good of a passer as Collier probably. Maybe not quite, but two assists a game. And he's a very good facilitator if you watch the games. His minutes, Collier's gotten the more consistent minutes, and Filipowski's minutes and position have fluctuated a lot.
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I just think he's been pretty interesting, and I went with him over Collier. I have a feeling Collier will make it. I assume it's just the playmaking and the size and stoutness that got Collier on there for you.
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I think both Jalen Wells and Zach Eaddy have straight-up rookie-of-the-year cases to be made, and I've had a lot of people in the league as I've polled them Who the hell should I vote for for Ricky? I don't have a vote to be clear, but who should who should I pick? A lot of them picked Wells and not surprisingly.
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And by the way, we're coming off a horrific fall last night that Jalen Wells took against the Hornets. The photos from the hospital look like he got I mean, he broke his wrist. I think just get well, Jalen Wells. That was very, very scary.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show, we got Mark Stein reflecting on a crazy and emotional night in Dallas with Luka Doncic's return. And then Kurt Goldsberry, my old buddy, helps me pick some more of the NBA awards. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show on a Thursday morning coming off a wild and absolutely memorable Wednesday night in the NBA.
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I really like Keyshawn George for the Wizards. I think he's got a chance to be a good role player in the NBA. I should just pigeonhole him as a role player, but you know what I'm getting at. It's a sort of 3 and D-ish template. 32% on threes, I'd like to see a little better, but I like the instinctual nature of his game. I like the way he plays. Ron Holland.
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Yeah, and to your point about the shock, I'm sure also hurt. Like, a franchise rejected him. Yeah. The Hawks already rejected him once. The Kings rejected him. The Suns rejected him. But that's all in the rear view before we knew exactly for 100% certainty what this dude is. The team that knew him best rejected him. And... sent him packing.
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You know, the minutes just haven't been there. 1,200 minutes on a team that's obviously trying to win and winning. And, you know, sometimes he's really on the fringes of the rotation, but trending the right way toward the end of the season. And you know one thing when he gets in the game. He's going to defend. You're laughing because you're going to think I'm going to say an altercation goes up.
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The likelihood of an altercation goes up by 14%. Maybe, maybe, maybe 17%. I don't know. You know he's going to defend his ass off, and he's a playmaker on defense. He will take the ball from people. He'll challenge people at the rim. He changes the energy of the game in a good way for the Pistons. He gets them out and running.
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I just haven't seen quite enough, and the three-point shot is like a complete zero for him at this point. But I like him. We should mention that Jared McCain would have changed this entire discussion if he'd been healthy. Yeah, 100%. I like Justin Edwards. I think he's come on nicely for the Sixers, but it's just, again, it was a lot of it late in the season.
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Jamal Shedd was maybe my toughest other omission for the Raptors. He's played... You know, he's played pretty well for them, particularly defensively. He's a good passer. He's a hound on defense. I just, you know, couldn't get past – it's just 1,300 minutes on a tanking team is just not that – I'd like to see more minutes from a player of that ilk. Those are my – I felt somewhat bad.
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It's amazing that after all the hype, after all the, oh, man – All those 16 teams, what idiots they are. Dalton Connect fell into our lap. All the victory lap stories in the media that came out a month into the season. Dalton Connect's not going to sniff this. Maybe he will sniff this conversation just by pure Lakers exceptionalism. Good things just happen to Lakers.
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But he didn't really factor into my thought process at all. He's on the fringes of the rotation, sometimes out of it now.
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um but i think dalton has to be in there again he's he's played meaningful minutes for a playoff team so he's he's on my he's on my list he's on my like also receiving votes slash not my vote list um those are all my those are the people i feel guiltiest about along with i guess bub a little bit i like bub kerrigan i think but bub kerrigan The defense is going to get there. 34% from three.
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You know, I feel bad for him not picking him. He's going to be good. I like him. Klingin. Justify the Klingin selection, which I also made.
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And then, I mean, you know, they've gotten a lot of crap for smearing him and talking bad about him. I empathize the teeniest degree with them because when you make a trade like this, well, first of all, the easiest thing to do is just not make it. So you don't have to put yourself in a position in which you have to explain why you made it.
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That's exactly my reasoning. I'm not sure about a lot of things with a lot of these guys. I'm not sure what Donovan Klingon's really going to amount to. I mean, the lack of foot speed is alarming in some matchups. Right. But he does one thing already really well, and it's protect the basket. Teams are shooting 49% at the rim when he's the closest defenders.
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That's like Gobert, like peak Gobert level rim deterrence. DeBlazer's defense is 110 points per 100 possessions when Klingon's on the floor, 115 when he's off the floor. He's number two among rookies in both offensive and defensive rebounding. And if I'm sure of that, he gets on the second team. That's all I need to hear to get him on the second team. Buzellas, I'm curious. He was –
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I have him. He's on my second team.
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poor matas 11th guy uh eight and a half points a game trending the right way and for me what does it is 35 on threes 54 on twos and i like i like some of the spice i'm starting to see in his game and i'm not just talking about the highlight dunks and the and the and the emphatic nature of those highlights the cross up on luca famously a couple weeks ago that got bill very excited um
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
They're starting to give him the ball a little bit in pick and roll. Not much, but a little bit. And he's got a little craft to that part of his game. Some hesitation, some pass fakes. He's got a nice floater. And he will also, like he had a play against Mark Williams the other night on the pick and roll where he drove. Mark Williams was the help defender.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Put his shoulder into Mark Williams, who's a big dude. Former Laker Mark Williams knocked him out of the way and laid the ball in and you'll see that in the Booz Ellis, you know, shot real quite a bit is he he'll use his shoulder to create space like that. And that's important because I think if the Bulls. in year one had some question about him.
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It was, is he ready for the physicality of the NBA? Is he tough enough for this? And Billy Donovan has been really hard on him. There's been a lot of games where you'll see him make a mistake and Billy will yank him right out of the game. And you can see teammates on the bench kind of trying to pick Booz Ellis up and make sure, you know, Hey, look, this happens.
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But once you have decided to make it, you then have to explain the inexplicable. And I'm not really sure how they were supposed to do that without the
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You're a rookie, like get back out there. Defensively, he's got a ways to go. Like most rookies, he's a really good cutter. Knows when to cut. Like if he's in the corner and Vuc is picking and popping and his guy stunts toward Vucevic, he's darting across that baseline for dunks. He knows how to relocate into open space. He does a lot of things pretty well. Similar to Risa Shea, actually.
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Risa Shea just does a lot of stuff well. a lot of smart stuff really well for a rookie and has shot it like was Ellis 35% from three on, on a good, on a decent team. The Hawks are still decent. The bulls are decent, um, successful seasons for both of those guys. Okay. Without further ado, what would your rookie of the year ballot be?
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sort of poking at his warts a little bit from their perspective warts because if you could you could say like well we just think Anthony Davis is a great player that doesn't explain why you traded away Luka Doncic so I empathize a little bit but you know look the negativity is out there he's heard it he's felt it and he was hurt like that was a pained human being watching that video and blubbering on national television for the entire world to see and then he came out
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So here's the anti-Castle case. Shooting 42%. Yeah. 28% on threes. His advanced stats are meh compared to the other two or three or four candidates that you're looking at. And all of that amounts to, again, I'm making intentionally the case against him. He's compiled. He's not that dissimilar from a SAR type who has compiled counting stats because he has the highest usage rate among this group.
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On a bad team that has been a bad team since when Banyama went out, basically has not been dialed in all the way toward winning. That's the case against him. And there's validity to it, I guess. I mean, the shooting numbers are what they are. And I can hear the Collier fans and the Sar fans say, how could you? Anoint this guy while making those kind of nitpicky things about our guys.
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I would also pick Castle for Rookie of the Year. And part of it is, look, he is shooting 50% on twos. And I've just, like, I've seen enough. I've seen enough playmaking from him. As the lead guard on a team that's, like, you know, at this stage of the season, I'm running pick and roll with Bismack, Biambo, and, like, very old Chris Paul is standing over here.
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And, like, Vassell's kind of been up and down. I like Vassell. He's been up and down. And the bench is eh. And, like, I've seen enough playmaking shots from him. The pocket passes. Like, he'll do the thing where he turns the corner and the defense expects him to make the cross-court pass.
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to the corner shooter, and he'll skip that guy in the chain and go to the next guy in the chain, the wing shooter, and the defense will be like, whoa, where'd that pass come from? And he gets off the ball early. When he sees a shooter open, he doesn't overhold the ball. He doesn't hold it too long. I've seen enough passing from him where I'm like, okay, That's a real player there.
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Defensively, you talk to scouts and coaches like, what kind of defender is he at this point? You'll get varying answers all up and down the spectrum. I think he's been pretty solid for a rookie. He's obviously got the physical ability to be an elite defender someday, and I hope he becomes one. Does he have lapses? Sure, he's a rookie.
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He's a rookie playing on a rebuilding team and getting to do anything he wants with the ball. I think overall, he's been... pretty good on defense for a rookie. You throw in the playmaking, the two-point shooting.
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I've just kind of seen enough that in this field, even with the statistical warts, what I've seen at the best moments is enough for him to beat this underwhelming field of rookies for Rookie of the Year. I think the rest of my ballot... I think I got to reward Jalen Wells with the two spot for just like you said.
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And just did what he always does. Like if there's one sure thing in the NBA. It's that this dude is going to show up in big moments. He might miss some shots. He might not have the most efficient game like in the finals. He might whine at the referees like he did in game three of the finals. As the Celtics got some free fast break points that really annoyed Nico Harrison. I think.
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Yeah, nothing spectacular, but he's a double-digit score, 35% three-point shooter, and he's guarding the best guy, the best perimeter guy almost every game.
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on a playoff team hopefully for the memphis grizzlies they do end up being a playoff team um and then the third spot you could talk me into ed you could talk me into where you can talk me into research i just have a soft spot for do it all jack of all trades wings so i would probably throw a research in there he's more matchup proof than ed who is really surging toward the end of the year
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And has taken to Tuomas Isolo's schemes on both ends of the floor really well. You could talk me to anybody. I'd go Risa Shea. But that's my case for Castle. The stats nerds are not going to pick Castle. It's actually reminding me of when the stats nerds were like, Walker Kessler over Paolo Bancaro. Look at the advanced stats, Bob. I'm like, yeah, okay. I get it.
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You know, one guy has to do a lot for a bad team, and the advanced stats and the efficiency stats are never going to really love that. But I like what I've seen enough. And by the way, let's be clear about this. This is a rookie of the year discussion. Zoom out a little bit. I cannot say this loudly enough. I fucking love Castle. I think Castle is going to be really, really good.
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I think the Spurs have a real player there to put next to Wimbanyama and absolutely hit that draft pick out of the park. Set aside all that stuff about warts and ball dominance and blah, blah, blah. His defense is this or that. I love Castle. I think he's going to be awesome all in.
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He is a— Sars rebounding, by the way, that's an area I should have mentioned. Like, got to get tougher there. But, yeah, Castle for a guard is a great rebounder.
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Yeah. His shot actually looks pretty good to me. I was surprised when I checked for his latest three-point shooting numbers that it's that bad because part of it he's taking and he's allowed to take and he has to take a lot of tough shots. He's taking pull-up threes. He's taking pull-up threes when guys go over screens. Obviously, guys go under screens against him.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And he's going to have to either get his jump shot to the point where that becomes untenable like Tony Parker did back in the day for the Spurs or... Continue to master all the tricks of the trade for guys who have to deal with that kind of defense on a night-to-night basis, which is go back and forth around the same screen that gets set lower and lower as you go.
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But he is always going to show up and play well. And have the courage to take the big shots. And this game he played beyond well. And I actually thought it was striking. Not a lot of sneering toward the Mavs. Or maybe there was some that I had seen. But there was more – he was more demonstrative in Los Angeles, it looked to me, than he was in Dallas.
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Fake towards the screen, go the other way. And he's got a lot of that already in his game. Okay, six-man of the year. Short list of candidates. Can I give you my short list of candidates? Yeah, you can give me your short list of candidates. I boiled down. I have five finalists. And then I realized one of my finalists is not eligible. So I have four finalists.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
My five finalists were Peyton Pritchard, Ty Jerome, not eligible. 20 minute a game rule. Goodbye, Ty Jerome. Great season. Thanks for participating. You get zero awards. Malik Beasley, DeAndre Hunter is the rare change teams candidate and Nas Reed. There are lots of other candidates that I could mention. Those were my, I boiled it down to those guys.
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Same with most improved player, by the way. I double-checked. I was like, is he also not eligible for most improved player? From playing, like, not any minutes at all to, well, he didn't play enough games of 20. Like, he would get my – well, he wouldn't get – Dyson Daniels would get my vote. He might be – he'd probably be on my ballot, but he's not eligible.
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Just the highlights. I watched Lakers-Thunder, Magic-Hawks, and I'm about to watch the fourth quarter of Bucs-Wolves because I really need to see what the hell happened in that game.
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Well, he's been pretty open about dealing with the sore knee. And I hate to break it to Jalen Brown, but... I don't think he's going to make all NBA if he gets to 65 games. So if he is really sore and that's why you're doing it, and I'm not saying that's why he is. I don't know that that's true or not true, whatever. I don't think it's going to – I don't think you're making it, buddy.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Well, we're recording this on Wednesday afternoon. the Suns have three games left. I believe one of them is actually tonight. Durant is at 62 games. The Suns have now reached a point where they're almost hopeless to even make the 10th seed because I think everything has to go wrong for Dallas. Everything has to go right for them. Be interesting to see if KD suits up at all the rest of the year.
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There you go. All right, give me your six-man-of-the-year ballot.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Okay. Oh, you're going to reverse order. I like this.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Like there was not a lot of chest puffing and, you know – kind of rubbing it in the Mavs face or maybe I missed it.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
What gave that away? The fact that the Celtics won the championship last year, like half of Team USA placed for the Celtics. Look, it's all fair. And I've been singing Malik Beasley's praises all year. I debated between these two as well for the top spot. I think they are one and two in whatever order you want. I actually ended up at Peyton Pritchard in the end.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Now, you're right that he is less essential to the success of the Boston Celtics than Malik Beasley is to the incredible success of the Detroit Pistons. They need his shooting and his scoring badly. And boys, he supplied it every single night. He's second among my group of five finalists. Well, really for 16 points a game. DeAndre Hunter actually leads them all in scoring at 17 a game.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Peyton Pritchard checks in at 14 a game. Obviously, they play actually the same amount of minutes. Again, a less essential player because the team around him, Peyton Pritchard, is just way better. I do think people within the Celtics would tell you, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
One thing about JJ, he's a showman. He knows how to be a showman.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
you'll watch games, you know, see, oh, there's the Cleveland cut. There's the Cleveland cut. It crescendoed throughout the year where it have to, and they actually started running it. I think a little bit less because teams were starting to get onto it and they wanted to sprinkle it in, but he's made great use of the bench.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
He's made great use of, he's just balanced lineups with like a coral comes in. Well, he's going to come in with the shooter. Wade comes in. He's going to come in with this kind of player. They've, they've really bet he's staggered the lineups correctly, but the smartest thing he did and his staff did above all else was
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
was resisting the idea that the way to weaponize evan mobley 2.0 the way to help evan mobley take the leap was just to make him shoot more threes spot up and shoot more threes they said yeah sure you can do that like you should probably take a couple more game and we think you'll shoot them better but the bread and butter of your game is still going to be inside it's going to be even if it's outside to inside it's going to be physicality personality
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
playmaking, using your perimeter skills to unlock your interior skills. And yeah, the spacing is going to get clunky. We're going to find a way to make it work without turning you into a stretch four who shoots a million threes because that's not where you're best. And that would have been the low-hanging fruit the tempting thing to do. And they did not do that.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
In fact, they almost went the other way. Like how about you get more forceful, more physical, and it helped unlock the best Evan Mobley. Speaking of which I put you on the spot. I told, I said earlier this week that I'm unsure about defensive player of the year and that I was leaning Mobley. Who would you pick?
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Yes, I think he is. Um, but I will say in all of this happened to me last year too, when I was thinking about Evan Mobley for defensive player of the year, and I don't even remember who I voted for. Um, I think I voted for Gobert in the end. I just have this feeling in my gut when I watch the Cavs that he's really good, but he's not the best defensive player in the NBA.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And it's the same feeling I have watching Lou Dort. I love Lou Dort, although, boy, the Lakers are so miserable with Lou Dort. They hate Lou Dort so much flopping around the floor. They're complaining. They're asking for flop. I love it. I just don't think Lou Dort's the best defense player in the NBA.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Wemba Nyama aside, we all know Wemba Nyama's better, but even without him in consideration, I think they're really good. They're first-team all-defense level players. I just don't watch Evan Mobley and get the feeling like, boy, oh boy, just impenetrable. Draymond, when he's on, gives me that feeling. Yeah. And I will say in all the coaches and scouts I polled yesterday, his name came up the most.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
His name came up the most often attached to the word reluctant or reluctantly. Like I would have to reluctantly say Draymond because everyone is tired of his campaigning. And the simplest and most convincing take I got from somebody, multiple somebodies actually, was just this.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
to your point about is Evan Mobley the best defender on Cleveland, and I know who you're getting at, is that Draymond has to play center for the Warriors, and there's nobody else in their starting lineup who can even be a facsimile of that, and Draymond is not even a center-sized player, but he has all the responsibilities of a center with no one else to give him a break or foist those off onto.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
He doesn't really play with Looney much anymore, and... with that alignment, the warriors are one of the best defensive teams in the league at that. That's pretty persuasive to me.
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And now I'm leaning back towards Raymond, um, after consulting with a lot of the experts, because again, in my gut, I wanted to vote mobily last year and I just could not get there because every once in a while, I'd watch somebody like bank Carol, just kind of beat them up a little bit. Um, A bigger, stronger, bulkier guy. Move him off his spot a little bit. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
But I just – I want that feeling of like, man, there's just nothing I can do with this guy. And I just can't quite get there with Mobley. And I love Evan Mobley. He's in pen on second team All-NBA for me. I actually still think he should be a candidate for the last first team All-NBA spot, that fifth spot that keeps sort of toggling around between – Mitchell and Curry.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And I haven't heard Mobley's name there much at all. For me, he's in that group. That's how highly I think of him. But that's an all-around award. This is a defense-only award. And I just don't think Evan Mobley's the best defense player of the NBA. Even aside Wemba Nyama.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
is Ahmed Thompson oh he's first team all defense for me he's not my first team all defense so is Evan Mobley by the way I can hear the Cavs fans like what is all this anti-Evan Mobley I love Evan Mobley I'm the original Evan Mobley stockholder never sold first team all defense Ahmed Thompson is first team all defense and he is first team holy shit what the hell just happened in the game
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Jeez, how many season-ending injuries do you think Wemba Nyama is going to have?
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Kirk Goldsberry, it's a pleasure to hang. Hopefully I'll see you in the playoffs, at the finals, at the Draft Combine, somewhere as I get back on the road a little bit in the NBA ecosystem. Thank you for joining the Zach Lowe Show. That's what it's called now, if you didn't know. KG, thank you, sir. Thank you, Zach.
The Zach Lowe Show
Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Honestly, I feel bad for Nico Harrison's family. He has kids who have to go to school and deal with this On a day-to-day basis, did you talk to him at all? I mean, obviously he hasn't done anything on the record, but is he even entertaining backroom conversations?
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
All right, that's a wrap on another episode of the Zach Lowe Show. Thanks for listening. By next week, by Monday, we'll have some idea of what the playoff matchups are going to be. Some of them, at least, the play-in games will be all set. We'll have some exciting guests coming on to talk about that stuff, including the boss man might show up. So thanks again. See you next week.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
We had, beware the Spurs, the late season Spurs, just like they did to the Nuggets last year in a catastrophic loss for Denver that cost them the number one seed and upended their entire playoff run. The Warriors drop an inexplicable home game to the Spurs going from, hey, we might get the fourth seed to, uh-oh, we might be in the play-in if we don't get some breaks along the way.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Yeah. I don't, I don't remember, you know, I I've talked to people around it. Like this isn't, this isn't going to stop anytime soon. The volume of it will not be as high as it was last night, but as long as Luke is awesome and,
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
as long as the Lakers are awesome, as long as the Mavericks are kind of middling and they have a better team than this in them, obviously their best perimeter player is injured and will be injured for much of next season.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
And they have a chance this off season to retool a little bit about around what they have in their entire roster, including all their centers have also been injured for much of the Anthony Davis era, such as it is an era. But as long as the Mavericks are, let's just say worse than the Lakers and Luca is amazing.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
this level of negativity and and fan distrust of the franchise i don't think is really going anywhere and i can't remember anything like this this level of we're not even sure as fans are we cheering for the team we're unhappy we want this guy fired with i don't remember anything like this short of like when a franchise relocates i i i can't find a precedent for this can you
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
From your perch last night, You're sitting right behind Team Luca. It's obviously loud, but Palenka's there. I don't remember the last time I've seen a GM sit in that kind of seat at a game. They really rolled out the red carpet.
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
The Suns farted their way out of a fartastic season in Phoenix. Kevin Durant didn't even play. He's not eligible for All-NBA. But we have to start with the main event in Dallas. the return of Luka Doncic, and we are joined by the Hall of Famer, the one and only Steinlein on Substack, podcast for DLLS Sports, one of the greats of all time, my friend Mark Stein. How are you?
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Luka’s Emotional Night in Dallas: Scenes From Last Night’s Lakers-Mavs Game With Marc Stein. Plus, More NBA Awards With Kirk Goldsberry.
Did you talk to them at all? Did you overhear anything from their conversation?
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You're listening to the Zach Lowe show sponsored by FanDuel. America's number one sports book has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game. That's right now. Even after tip off, just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sports book app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.
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You are down 0-2. Porzingis' absence, not absence, he played 14 minutes and he played okay. But 14 minutes is like not what you brought him in for. It's a big deal because when the Knicks do switch and make it a one-on-one or two versus two kind of game, what they're betting on is, yeah, Tatum, you might beat whoever off the dribble and penetrate.
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We might be cat off the dribble or Mitchell Robinson off the dribble and penetrate into the lane. If Cornette's there, we're going to have a defender there. Even if Horford is there sometimes, because Horford's not always spaced the way Porzingis is. There's going to be a defender there, and it's going to be two-on-two, and sometimes you're going to win, and sometimes we're going to win.
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We're going to force you to take a tough shot at the rim, block, deflection, whatever, and everyone else can stay home. If Porzingis is out there spotting up around the perimeter, that becomes a one-on-one battle, and it becomes a dunk. So that's a big factor here. The fact that no one seems to know what the hell is going on with him is kind of like... It's a crazy story that I don't know.
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If there's an issue with your team, if there's a weakness with your team, if there's something wrong with the inner fortitude of your team, it will get exposed in the playoffs. The Boston Celtics last year, incredible season, incredible championship run, unimpeachable. No notes. But the reality is this.
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I haven't been able to get an answer. It's crazy. I want to go off more on the threes.
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It's not even just the three. Be my guest. So I take notes, running notes during all these games to help me go rewatch them. And I have a little shorthand that I use is remember this if. And it's my way of saying this was like a little interesting swing here. Remember this if the Knicks come back to win the game. 73-53, Boston's up 20. Derek White takes a three, misses.
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Rebound comes right back to him. He takes another three. This one tightly contested. It's a miss. And I think that Nick's got to run out out of it and hit a three. I just hit that as a remember this if. Because I'm watched. There's like three minutes left in the third quarter or something like that. 15 minutes left in the game. You're up by 20 points.
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You're allowed... There's a big gap between shooting an instantaneous three with the hand in your face and playing prevent offense. Huge middle ground. You're allowed to play time and score a little bit. When you're up by 20 in a finite game... Second half ones and twos help you. They're good. The Knicks need you to get zeros. You are doing a favor when you waste no time and get a shot up.
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That is percentage wise. Yes. The expected points for possession on that is higher than a short two or a rim attack, whatever. Great. Expected points per possession gets you nothing. It got you zero. Another one. Fourth quarter, nine minutes left. They're still up 16. Al Horford catches an air ball, puts it back in to put them up by 16. There's like nine minutes left.
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Steals the inbounds pass from Josh Hart. He's like 12 to 15 feet from the rim on the left wing. Dude, you're 38. It's cool. It's a big moment. It's a great play. Again, time and score. Instead of like kicking it out, resetting, he just wildly throws his body at Josh Hart and takes this like eight foot hook shot.
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And I wrote down, remember this if, because it's just, why are you always going for the knockout punch? You are ahead on every judge's scorecard in the 10th round of a 12 round fight. Just hit some jabs, settle the hell down and play the time and score. And the example everyone highlighted was when Tatum up seven gets the ball in the right corner on a transition chance.
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And there is nobody between him and the basket. It's just like you could not have more space. Everyone's highlighted it. Brunson's under the rim with Al Horford. It's a dunk. It's a drive and kick. It's something other than an instantaneous up seven time and score. Time and score. Just drives me insane. And the Knicks deserve credit, A, for executing all their stuff well on both ends of the floor.
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Because you can't have a comeback like this. It's not a comeback only, and it's not a collapse only. It's both. The Knicks deserve credit for executing on both sides of the floor and defending in a way that has clearly unnerved the Celtics. I have never seen Tatum this out of sync. He's driving into crowds that are obvious. He's driving into Kristaps Porzingis rolling to the rim.
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He's driving at Al Horford at OGN and OB. He threw... I can't remember who he beat off the dribble, but he beat someone off the dribble, got in the lane, and it was one of those two-on-two battles at the rim. And Cat was starting to rotate over to him. He reacted like Cat was Victor Wembanyama and was like, oh my God, Cat's coming. I got to get rid of this ball.
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They did not face an opponent until maybe the finals that was good enough to push them to that point where whatever issues might have been there, and maybe there were none last year, came out into the open for the world to see. It's a different year, and the Knicks are really good. And what has happened to the Boston Celtics in the first two games, blowing 20-point leads at home in both games,
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And threw a horrible, inaccurate lob pass to Luke Cornett that was behind him. I'm like, it's Carl Anthony Towns, man. It's not... freaking Dikembe Mutombo rest in peace go at him it's they are it's disgusting and the Knicks are the mentally tougher stronger team right now I'm done that was it that was all my that was all my all my notes
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Hey, man, look. You spent all last playoffs hearing people... You spent all last regular season hearing people talk about, well, you know, is this real? 66 wins. Is this real? All last playoffs and offseason hearing people say... Miami injured, Indiana injured, Cleveland injured, Dallas overmatched. And you own, to your credit, you owned it. You were like, we're going for the repeat this year.
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Joe Mazzullo leaned right into it. That answers every question. The repeat answers all the questions. And this is the effort you're putting forth in the first two games of your first real playoff series? My God.
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Well, look, Hey, this is all fun and cool to talk about. Jason Tatum is 12 of 42 for the series, 12 of 42. Now the risk, can I give you one? Maybe the risk is what we should say. Maybe the risk is bothering him. We don't know the extent to which that may or may not be true, but 12 of 42, all this other stuff is cool. Like if he doesn't make shots, give me the other one.
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Then we'll finish up on this.
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is absolutely astonishing. First of all, credit to the Knicks. Okay? We got to get that out of the way before the fun part starts. Josh Hart, just two amazing games. You're going to put your centers on me like every team does? I'm going to hurt you. I'm going to get offensive rebounds. I'm going to kick out the three-point shooters. I'm going to play great defense.
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I'm surprised that it's that high. I thought you were going to be like 16. And again, Jalen Brown did beat up Josh Hart a little bit earlier in the game. Hey, look, look. We're about to learn a lot about the Celtics.
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We all know what's at stake for them, both in semi-validating last year's title in the eyes of whatever group of fans you want to talk about and what's coming in the offseason in terms of potential roster changes, financial crunch. It's a tight window. Tight window. It's a great road team. It's one of the best road teams in recent NBA history.
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Sure, they can bank on a game that's coming maybe where they make 23s. That's one win, right? They still got to get three more, and they're not going to get three more unless they play better. They are fully capable of winning this series. They are fully capable of winning the next four games in a row in this series. That's how good they are. Now... They're probably not that good.
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Peak Celtics good because of whatever's going on with Porzingis. Brown's a little banged up. Tame's a little banged up. Drew's a little banged up. Everyone's a little banged up. The Knicks guys have played the equivalent of five seasons in one season, the way Tibbs plays them in minutes. Are there things the Celtics could do? Absolutely. You know what I like last night, Fred?
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When Jalen Brunson was on Derek White, you got to reorient your whole offense around that because Derek White's your most creative, unpredictable offensive player. There was a sequence where they said, you know what, Jason Tatum, you having the ball is not going great. Derek White's got Jalen Brunson on him. We're going to run white Tatum pick and rolls and use you as a screener. Do more of that.
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Get a little more creative. If Mitchell Robinson's on Kristaps Porzingis, which I don't know why the Knicks are matching up that way when it's Horford Porzingis, I'd put him on Horford. Spam Porzingis pick and pops. See if you can get him going.
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There's stuff they can do, but if they don't get out of their own way with these zero pass possessions and just crazy decision-making, whether they're up 20, down 20, the Knicks are going to win this series because the Knicks are the steadier, steelier team right now. And I...
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I think the last time I was in this much shock at an ongoing playoff collapse was Nuggets Clippers in the bubble in 2020 when I just sat like, what is so the Clippers are just disintegrating game after game after game. That's how bad this is. And the Knicks are like, hey, let's keep playing. You want to play a fifth quarter, sixth quarter? Like, we're good. Unbelievable.
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Any parting thoughts before I move on to some other stuff? No, let's let's do this. We should briefly note, resuming tonight, the only game, one game tonight, Fred, what am I going to do?
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You know what I'm doing today? I'm driving the swim practice carpool, actually. It's me and three 10-year-old girls. It's a great time. It sounds it. Everybody, I'll tell you, everybody who told me, The carpool is where you learn all the real stuff. I really underestimated how true that is. I just drive and they are so unconcerned with adults.
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Like they just think every adult is lame and stupid and uncool that they just don't even realize you're there. And they start having these conversations where it's like, You're all insane. Like all of your ideas. They had one long conversation where one of the girls said, oh, my God, a white van passed. Guys, I'm afraid of white vans. And my daughter was like, why are you afraid of white van?
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And the other person was like, well, because that's where people who drive white vans kidnap children. And then the third girl was like, but what about blue vans? Do people in blue vans kidnap children? Why is it just white? And it just went on for eight minutes. So that's what I have in store for me.
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I'm going to do all the annoying Josh Hart shit that I do that makes you mad. Carl Anthony Towns. How many threes did Carl Anthony Towns take last night, Fred?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
They had a one conversation, like six minutes long. That was what is diabetes? Like what? I don't. Someone had heard of diabetes and they were like, it's when you have too much sugar. No, it's when you don't have enough sugar. And you do. And anyway, we should mention. Warriors-Wolves is that game tonight, and Steph Curry will not play in it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Hamstring strain, he's going to be reevaluated in a week, which, as you know, does not mean he's necessarily going to play in a week. The earliest he would come back is game five under that timetable. And look, injuries are part of it. They've been... The Warriors have benefited from injuries and gotten... slammed by injuries in playoff runs during this semi-dynastic period they've had.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And we don't need to go through all of them. It's part of it. It still really sucks because they go to Minnesota. They steal game one. Pat Spencer hits a sky hook at some point in the game. And it's just such a delight watching this dude at 37, who's one of the most beloved teammates in the history of the NBA. Obviously a one-of-one player, both in quality and style. Still doing it at this level.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Still just breaking down Nikhil Alexander off the dribble for eight dribbles and jab steps and drilling a three in his face. Still improbably getting to play meaningful second round basketball with a shot at going to the conference finals with the whole team other than Draymond Green and Steve Kerr essentially turned over around him from the glory years. And now he's out a week.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And look, opportunity knocks for Minnesota. You answered it with 9000 missed three pointers for the second game in a row in game one. opportunity knocks, they should be able to beat the Warriors without Curry. And the big question is, how are the Warriors going to score without Curry? How are they going to score when Butler's on the bench? But this is the Jimmy Butler time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And he tried to summon it in game one late when it got close, ran a lot more pick and rolls than he's been running as a Warrior, had one of his trademark reject the screen. And with everything I got accelerated to the basket, he's dealing with that glute injury, right? roasted Rudy Gobert on a switch one time and he's guarding Rudy Gobert a lot on the other end. And so he'll have that cross match.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
He took one, and it was an end-of-quarter 70-foot heave.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
I just don't, I I'm, I'm a little, I need to see it because the Jimmy Butler I've seen in the last two weeks does not have enough in the gas tank to do what he needs to do now. Like he couldn't do really anything with Dante DiVincenzo who was guarding him as a primary guy and guarded him a lot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
One of the benefits of Curry being out for Minnesota is they can shift the assignments so that Julius Randall doesn't have to guard Jimmy Butler and they can move everyone around. And DiVincenzo is the smallest guy on the floor when they take Mike Conley out. And when Mike Conley is on the floor, they're just going to have to go at him every single possession and not waste any possessions.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
That could be anything like just like if they just have to be calculated about what they do. There are possessions where if a small guy's on and run the and I assume Gary Payton, the second will start or Moses Moody will start. Moses Moody is not playing. Well, it's probably going to be GP to to guard it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
try some aunt Randall pick and rolls, try some Randall, whoever buddy healed his guarding pick and rolls, just like be calculated about it. And if they're calculated about it, you know, Quentin post is on the floor, play them off the floor, go at him. They, they should be able to do it, but Jimmy Butler, man, He's in my notes. I'm starting to call him the finagler.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
He just finagles points like you watch these games and he finishes with 20 points. I'm like, how did he do that? And they're like, well, there was an air ball that he saw coming and nobody else saw coming and he rebounded and put it back in the basket. There was a loose ball that squirted to him with DiVincenzo on him. He catches it, realizes he's got momentum, elbows DiVincenzo out of the way and
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
short jumper he seizes opportunities because he sees them before other people do and he just finagles these points but finagling by the finagler is not going to be enough he's going to have to be playoff jimmy i think for the warriors to do something here
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
The Celtics have vaporized everything that is A++ about Carl Anthony Towns' game. And what did he do last night? 21 points, 17 rebounds, beat the living hell out of Al Horford in the post. Not some little shrimpy guard, not a skinny guy. Al Horford beat him up. And ones, offensive rebounds, putbacks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
They're not, they're not grifted. I think that's an important distinction. Like he just has such a great sense of angles and timing and anticipation that when he doesn't have it, when he doesn't have his a plus juice and legs, he just finds these little creases. That's why he's a great cutter too. He just senses these opportunities to get a tiny advantage.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And once he has that advantage, he's going to ring something out of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Good defense when the Knicks switched him onto Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum, which they are doing and doing much more effectively than I envisioned they could do. And I talked about, can anyone do to Boston what Orlando is doing and switching everything and trying to limit their three-point volume? Now that is not happening. The Celtics are like, you're not going to limit our three-point volume.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
It's almost like he's not a dope, Fred. It's almost like he's not a dope. And maybe you shouldn't have ruined his confidence for an entire half season. But here we are.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
The way Minnesota was matching up, was going to unlock some Curry Green pick and rolls that were not really available to them or that effective against Houston because of where Shen Goon was guarding, and now he's gone. Somehow, amid all of this, we haven't addressed the most heartbreaking loss in a series of heartbreaking losses, which was Cavs-Pacers game two.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
That series actually resumes tomorrow. It's Thursday morning right now. We don't know the status of Evan Mobley and Darius Garland and DeAndre Hunter, and it's kind of pointless to deep dive into game three without knowing who the hell is going to play. I will just say, I don't really understand what happened at the end of the game, still having watched it five times.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
We're going to keep taking them. There's no one under the basket. How about I take a three? We'll get to that, Fred. We'll get to that. Carl Anthony Towns, great job on switches. Jalen Brunson, great job on switches late in the game. You're going to hunt me? Yeah, I've been a pushover in some matchups against you. Yeah, I want to hedge out and not switch.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Lane violations galore, just botched inbounds plays, wasted timeouts, Halliburton heroics. It was one of the more unbelievable collapses slash comebacks I've ever seen, and a total gut punch for the Cavs, who... looked as if they were going to get the spirited home game to win, just like the Celtics did. By the way, Celtics Cavs being down. Oh, it's just unbelievable.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Are you ready for like a Knicks Pacers conference finals? Like it's 1994.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
He would be in the building. Reggie Miller seems to have developed a soft spot for the Knicks, which I kind of like is a good late career turn for him. Anyway, like, streus goes bananas donovan mitchell honestly i don't say this lightly his game two performance
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
conjured the image of Michael Jordan in game seven of the 1998 conference finals between the bulls and the Pacers where the bulls had nothing and the Pacers were winning the game. And all Michael Jordan could do is like, I'm just going to get to the line over and over again. I'm just going to throw myself at the rim, going to throw myself into contact and I'm going to will us over the finish line.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And Donovan and Mitchell forget the absolutely nuclear dunk on Pascal Siakam, which was unbelievable. Um, He was willing them to victory, and they still should have won the game. Ty Jerome turned into a pumpkin. No trash talking, no chest puffing. Didn't even want to shoot the ball by the time he was benched. He needs to be unpumpkined. And can I just give you a stat? You can.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Before we quickly exit here. Andrew Nembhard.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Pull up three pointers, okay? Regular season. 12 of 44. So made 12 pull-up threes in however many games he played. Lots of games. Last season, regular season, 8 of 36. So that's 20 combined in probably something like 150 games. 2025 playoffs, eight of 15. He's made as many pull-up threes in how many playoff games have they played now?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Seven as he has in the entire regular season last year and almost as many as in the entire regular season this year. And I just want to give the Pacers a shout-out because...
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
People are going to remark again at the injury luck they have benefited from against Milwaukee last season, against New York last season when the Knicks basically ran out of players by the end of the series, against Milwaukee again this season, and now against the Cavaliers with three of their top six players hurt. Or at least hurt for game two. We'll see who plays in game three.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Late in the game, if you switch on, if I get switched on to Jalen Brown, I'm going to make you take a 12-footer or a 15-footer. I'm going to let our defenders on your corner shooters who are sitting there salivating at the thought of yet another contested corner three. They're not getting the ball. We're staying home. Knicks were awesome. Mikael Bridges, hello. Hello. Five first-round picks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
You got to beat the team that's in front of you. And they beat the team that's in front of them. And they're just a really good, well-constructed team. We have a long sample size now of this team being really good. And if you go back and you just trace the tentacles of the Paul George trade and on... Their asset management has been, like, really underrated how pristine it is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Like, Oladipo becomes Levert, becomes the draft picks that get them Nemhard and Shepard, I believe. Oladipo comes in the Paul George trade. They get Neesmith, and I... I am an original Neesmith Island resident to the point that when he was being benched by Boston, I ran into the Celtics in the playoffs that year in Miami. And I ran into him and his agent. I've told this story before.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And I said, look, man, I'm not kissing up to you because we just met. We're talking like I've been saying they should play you. And he's freaking good. And by the way, remember this if dot, dot, dot. Remember this. If end of third quarter Cleveland in total control of the game, 10, six seconds left or something. Carlisle brings Halliburton in for the last play of the, of the quarter.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
He runs like a fly pattern down the middle inbounds pass to him, kick to knee Smith corner three, just that's the stuff. That's the stuff. Every possession matters, that stuff. So Indiana has done an amazing job and it just is shitty to, that the Cavs have this absolutely magical season. They actually kind of rest everyone and manage minutes in all of this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And at the worst possible time, it is being undone partially by injuries, partially by self-imposed errors, and partially by a very good Pacers team. And I just, again, we don't know who's playing. I just want to see the healthy teams play. I want to see Cleveland have a real honest chance at this because it's a bummer, but what a... to freaking finish the other night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
I mean, that was one where it was like... I mean, when Neesmith got that dunk on a free throw... I was like, was he fouled? Did he commit a foul? How many people committed lane violations? Are we just not going to call that anymore? Because I'm cool. If someone dunks and we're like, you know what? That's a cool dunk. I guess we're just cool with that. Unbelievable.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
You know what's interesting about that though, Fred, is I agree with you and he's very good and everyone sings his praises. And then once in a while, hint, hint, he comes into a matchup And it's like, oh, he can't do that. And one of those was Jalen Brunson in the playoffs last year. It was like, we're going to have to put someone else on Jalen Brunson.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Hello. I'm here. Present. Fourth-quarter comeback. Amazing by the Knicks. Amazing mental fortitude. Amazing mental toughness to stick with the game. All of that Tibbs shouts to Tibbs lambasted in a lot of corners is uncreative, afraid to make adjustments, scrapped the Knicks based defense for this series and was like, we're going to try something else. We're going to make it work.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Well, they mentioned, I'm glad you mentioned that because to wrap up, like I mentioned those switching two on two battles in the paint. The three wings around Brunson and Cat are doing an unbelievable job just taking up space and sliding this way and sliding that way and making Boston's ball handler sink. Wait, is that driving lane? Oh, no, it's not. Is that guy over there? Oh, no, he's not.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And that's big. Two Pacers things, then we're wrapping up. Number one, Tyrese Halliburton, most overrated player, was ridiculous. The players are wrong. I had him second team All-NBA until the very end. I flipped him for Cat. He was a no-brainer All-NBA player this year. I'm very curious to see if he's going to make it. To me, he was a must-have.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Number two, and this is my concluding thought, and I'm going to save most of it for another day. There's a wonderful story to be written about Miles Turner, who has been in trade rumors all the time, has been almost traded at least one time that I can think of, is always somehow coming up short of the player everybody dreams him to be, and yet is just rock fucking solid.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
More so on offense even than defense at this point, but is just helping you in lots of different ways all the time. And I kind of hope now that he's a career pacer. After all the trade rumors, he's like Mr. Pacer now. That's for another day. Fred Katz at The Athletic does great work covering the entire NBA, but he's on this wild Knicks Celtics series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
We're going to see what happens. Great job all around. Any other Knicks notes, Fred, before we really get, we really get revved up here.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Madison Square Garden is going to be rocking on Saturday, sir. Enjoy it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
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Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
All right, it's time for an interlude between playoff series talk because we are 72, 96 hours, something like that, from my favorite event of the NBA calendar and for sure the stupidest event of the NBA calendar, the NBA Draft Lottery, where 14...
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Highly educated, uber competitive, top of their field, outthink everybody, search for every edge to get this player on a two-way contract because maybe he could become a whatever. Sit in a room and watch ping pong balls fly around. a 40 year old lottery machine.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Like you see on the local TV news and see whether their franchise gets Cooper flag or whether their franchise gets somebody who's less exciting than Cooper flag, but they're all geniuses and they're all great team building experts. They're at the mercy of a stupid lottery machine. Jay Kyle, man, how are you, sir? It's such a pleasure to have you on.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
i 90s simpsons i i'll say it again it's the best thing that's ever been on television don't at me if people at anymore at him i'll jump in it's fine um i love the lottery so much i'm gonna be in the room the secret room again it's not a secret i'll be in the drawing room again as everyone sits there and watches the stupid machine um
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And this is a good one because we have a legit, awesome number one pick. And then so here I am not a draft guy. You are. I'm not a college basketball guy. You are. I do, however, talk to NBA front office people all the time who have been gearing up for this draft. And I've talked to more of them in the last 72 hours to gear up for this podcast.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And I will say the general consensus, if there is one, is this. And I want to see if you agree with this consensus. One is locked in. It's become as deep as the draft is. It's starting to become a one and gigantic gap to everybody else. Two is probably locked in at Dylan Harper. You get a little like, but probably.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And then everyone's like three to 10 is just kind of like complete eye of the beholder. Depends on the, how the lottery falls. Wouldn't be shocked if this guy goes six spots higher than he's mocked. That wouldn't be shocked if that guy goes six spots lower than he's mocked. Do you agree with that?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Or do you think there's a clearer sort of like three, four or five pecking order just in terms of like talent than that?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Oh, oh, I did 10 minutes of YouTube film on a bunch of prospects, which means I am the most dangerous kind of person possible. I have very little knowledge and a lot of takes and Trey Johnson. Yeah. Look, seems pretty thirsty to me. I get the cam Thomas comp that everyone throws out, but again, I don't know the context. I don't know the context of the teams. Right. So I watched a lot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
I watched like a lot of VJ edge comb. Cause I'm like, I don't know anything about this guy. Let me watch him. And what I watched was like fairly unremarkable to me, other than the athleticism stands out. He made a lot of threes in the highlight reel. He did not shoot the three that well in college. And then I would talk to NBA people who are pretty high on him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And they would be like, well, his floor should be like good three and D guy. That's the floor right off the bat. That's with insane athleticism. That's a great floor. And then they're like, if you watch Baylor, like their point guard was hurt. They have no spacing. No, she was like a very unfavorable environment for him to function.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And so like, that's the stuff that I need to sort of have taught to me. But yeah, Trey Johnson was, uh, A lot of shots. A lot of shots were taken.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
I'm glad you mentioned the Sixers because obviously this is the most delicious subplot of the lottery. I don't know who's going to be in the back room for the Sixers because it's been a while. I don't know who they're going to send. I'm hoping it's Daryl Morey because I want to see the guy with the most at stake, the top guy in the job,
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
a guy who is an incredibly competitive and nervous game watcher in that environment, because as people may or may not know, if the pick falls in the top six, they keep it. If it falls out of the top six, they give it away. It's like 65-35 or 60-40 or something like that. I don't remember the odds. Like, that's... You can talk yourself in and out of 65, 35, 60, 40.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Like, oh, there's a 60% chance I'm going to win this game. That sounds great. Like, wait, 40%? There's a 40% chance I'm going to get struck by lightning if I go outside today? That seems like a lot. That seems like a big percentage. I'm going to pick my seat in the room. based on the best view of whoever the Sixers representative is, and I'm just going to watch that person the entire time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And by the way, I don't want my GM to hold it in. I don't care if he's on national TV. I don't care if he's in the secret drawing room. I want to see someone flip the freaking dais over when it doesn't go their way. I want to see F-bombs. I want to see accidental unbleaped F-bombs. Okay, the latest mock draft I haven't seen, but you go in the one that's up now, Flag, Harper, Edgecombe III.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Ace Bailey for Trey Johnson five, Derek Queen, who I saw play in the tournament. So I actually saw him play a real basketball game. And very predictably, it was like, oh, this guy's so fun. I like this guy. I don't know how it's going to translate to the NBA, but he's very fun. I had not seen it all. No clue. He's absolutely gigantic. Okay, let's go to Ace Bailey.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I watched 20 minutes of film on Ace Bailey. That's really all I'm going to do. The playoffs are going on. I might do more if the playoffs slow down. And I got instantly why he's this mystery box of a player. And I will tell you this. I don't know if you've heard this.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Ace Bailey's measurement at the combine, I think, is going to be one of the most anticipated measurements in recent prospect history. Because is he 6'10", or is he 6'8", or is he 6'7"? There are NBA people who are like, I'm not actually sure he's 6'10". And if he's not 6'10", if he's 6'8", that matters a lot to me.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I mean, if he comes in at six, seven or six, eight, I don't know what that does to the draft order, but there are definitely some teams. The name Cam Reddish was thrown at me if he comes in at 6'7 or 6'8, which I watch him and I'm like, this dude's making spinning one-legged up and unders. Yeah, I didn't get that.
The Zach Lowe Show
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there is somebody mocked in the top 10 of your latest, of the one that's available now online, not the newest one. There's one guy in your top 10. Again, this is based on me doing the stupid thing, which is taking very little information and taking too much out of it. I fully realize that.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, but but I should like a lot of this is tongue in cheek. Like I would never make actual decisions or like real predictions based on the limited information that I have consumed. But it is, as you say, interesting. There's one guy in your top 10 who's just like way different than I assumed he would be.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And I like him way better than I thought I would because of the ways in which he is way different than I incorrectly and stupidly assumed him to be. Can you guess who it is?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Yes, conknipple. Conknipple. Wow. Just didn't really expect the kind of he's got a little physicality and nastiness to his game on offense.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, look, I mean, and so I asked a bunch of my scout friends, like, so I guess the book, the hit on him is just lateral speed defensively. And is he going to be able to hold up? And like, yeah, that's it. But I'm like, I mean, he's got a level of nasty and physicality and creativity on offense that I frankly did not expect. And I was like, okay, that's interesting. I even had a guy tell me,
The Zach Lowe Show
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All right, coming up on an absolutely loaded Zach Lowe show. Oh, my God. Nick Celtics, Steph's injured, Cavs collapse, Indiana comeback. We got Fred Katz, we got Adam Morris, and we got Jake Kyleman to preview the draft lottery, which, yes, is coming up on Monday. That's all next on the Zach Lowe show.
The Zach Lowe Show
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If he went top five, I wouldn't be shocked. And I was like, okay, I might be a little shocked at that, but maybe not. I don't know. There are some people who really like him and some people who are really skeptical.
The Zach Lowe Show
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You do run into the old Daryl Morey rule where it was like you have to do cross-racial comparisons. You can't compare white players to white players. You run into some, but when you talk to scouts about Knipple, you get that very clearly. He's comped to all the people you think he's going to be comped to. This is an unfair question because I'm springing this on you. Who needs...
The Zach Lowe Show
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to win the lottery most urgently, the Jazz or the Wizards? Not that they're the only two who can win it. Anyone can win it. I'm just saying of the two teams in that sort of bottom four, who there's no deserve. People are like, I deserve this. This team deserves that. Deserves got nothing to do with it, as they said in the wire.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Utah or Washington, who has a more urgent need for the basketball gods to smile upon them?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Yeah. The jazz are really interesting because you know, they've done this thing the last couple of years where they were overperforming expectations and then pulled the rug out from their own team halfway through the season. And as a result, never ended up where they are right now in the lottery. And you look at, they have a bunch of young players and you look at them and Cody Williams.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I mean, that did not go great. One year. We'll see. Keontae George. You know, I thought about him watching fears just because not that they're that similar, but that George will do stuff on an NBA floor where you're like, that's an NBA pass right there.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Like I was a left-handed laser beam pass into the lane, but he's just been so bad defensively and hasn't been able to shoot it well enough that you're like, what is this amounting to? And what it amounted to this year was he got, he got demoted to the second unit halfway through the season or whatever. Um, Filipowski is all right.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I had him second team, all rookie, not sure what he's going to become. Kessler is pretty good. Like, like, I don't know what he's going to be. He's like pretty good. Um, Hendricks I had really was really intrigued by before the injury. My point is like, and Collier Collier was good. Collier trended the right way. The start was so bad that it was alarming, but he trended the right way.
The Zach Lowe Show
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My point is like, Just not sure what all this really amounts to, all these bites at the 8th, 10th, 7th pick in the draft. It might amount to not all that much so far. I don't know.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I think I'm stepping in as commissioner and being like, do it again, draw it again. We can't, it's just, that's not fair. Do it again. I know it's supposed to be luck and the lottery is a lottery. And like, you know, the teams have the magic one at two years in a row. And the calves have won it a million times. Just do it, do it again. It's one by Yama and flag. That's not fair.
The Zach Lowe Show
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That's good. I mean, there are some obvious ones. It's almost boring to send him to the bad teams because he's just going to... They're going to lose, but he's going to do... I mean, the great thing about Cooper Flagg is... And the thing that makes him so rare as a prospect, as you have said, is like...
The Zach Lowe Show
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The on-ball stuff is almost less advanced than, like, everything else about his game, including playing hard as fuck all the time, which is a very valuable thing. So I don't know what he looks like on a bad, bad team. But, like, you know, I mean, the Sixers would be interesting. The Pelicans, just because I have no idea what they're doing or who's going to play for them, are interesting.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Spurs, you outlined it. You put him with, like— Scoot and Shaden Sharp in Portland. I don't know what that looks like.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, and I thought, you know, it's easy to sort of wave away a late season surge is like, oh, that's like February, March basketball, you know, April people start tanking, whatever. And they, they did not make the sort of play in chase that was briefly flickering as a hope for them. But I thought their surge was pretty real. Like I didn't, I didn't think this was like a fake.
The Zach Lowe Show
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It would, the team as a whole kind of made a little bit of a leap. And so, yeah, I'd be curious. Okay. There's one guy. who in all my phone conversations with front office, not all of them, some of them, the conversations shrunk to a whisper. They were afraid someone, maybe Zach's on an Amtrak train, and there's an NBA scout on the Amtrak train who's going to overhear this conversation.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Zach, there's a guy. I'm just going to say a name. Just keep an eye on him. And I heard it from a bunch of people. Say a name. And they're all going to be mad that I say the name because they all think they're the only ones on it, and they're not. because he's mocked in the first round of your mock draft. Cedric Coward is, if all of these scouts are on him like this, you have him mocked at 29th.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I think he's going to get picked higher than that, just based on my conversations.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And they didn't want to do that in game one. They're like, you know what? You're not a switch guy. We're going to drop you back like traditional coverage. That didn't work so well. Anytime the Knicks have played, Cat has been
The Zach Lowe Show
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i'm just just i've heard his name a lot i to the point where i watched some clips on him uh you have uh queen at six and again you may change this now when the next one comes up but you have queen and at six and you have a guy that enough people flagged for me that i watched a little bit of him uh colin murray boils at 20 pick somebody one or two guys in that range 6 to 20 and and
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like that I should dive in on be like, you're going to like that guy or that guy's super polarizing. I really liked that guy more than most people. Just give me a couple of names to flag.
The Zach Lowe Show
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okay in drop coverage in this series but a lot of the stints when the celtics offense finally gets a rhythm it's when the knicks revert to traditional pick and roll defense and you get like porzingis hard roll dunk cornet hard roll layup tatum driving right by cat with an in and out dribble um the mitchell robinson thing and this is before i get to the meat and potatoes outstanding the big lineup has been working in limited doses all year
The Zach Lowe Show
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I don't know that conversation.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, it's funny, you know, watching you, you mentioned, um, uh, the, uh, the Fleming kid, um, And I was watching Murray Boyle's These like 6'8 to 6'10 big guys who are skilled and can switch, but their shooting is eh to not good. And they're too small to play center and protect the rim on defense. It's very easy to talk yourself into them because they're very creative.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And I guess Queen would be like a high-level version of this. They're very creative, clever passers. They're switchy on defense. And the inevitable sort of like Draymond Green archetype comes up for those players. But like more often than not, it unfolds like, like the name that came to my head was Jonathan Mobo. Who's like, fine. Like Jonathan Mobo is fine.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And like on the right night, you see him do stuff and it's like, wow, that guy's like really exciting. Like he can guard fives and fours and threes. And he like made a three. And then you just like five years later, it's, he's been traded three times and doesn't, and doesn't play because the size and the shooting are just not there.
The Zach Lowe Show
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It's just, it's a very tricky piece to draft, particularly high on the board.
The Zach Lowe Show
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to be slower what's going on with you that's been the war with me with him is uh i might just kind of have to accept that he's one of these slow moving bring you into my world offensive players he just drives me a little nuts sometimes but he's very clever passer well uh this is great we might have to reconvene after the lottery is over and we see who's picking where and i'm gonna watch more film on these guys and get more uninformed opinions and hot takes um when's the next mock draft coming out
The Zach Lowe Show
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And yet I'm watching the game and I'm still like, so they're fouling to get OGN and OB back into the game. Like they're fouling Mitchell Robinson to get him out of the game. They're this scared of him that the guy who was the best player on the floor in game one, who's on the bench right now is going to come back into the game. And the Celtics are essentially choosing that.
The Zach Lowe Show
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uh early next week actually so we're gonna be it's gonna respond to the to the lottery so yeah uh it's such a pleasure to have you on and finally emeet you and whatever term people use for that these days i'm gonna lean on you for draft stuff and danny as well uh ringer mock draft is just it looks beautiful it reads beautiful it's should be your number one go-to resource for all things draft j kyle man thanks for joining us thanks for having me
The Zach Lowe Show
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All right, let's wrap up with the one series we haven't talked about yet, which went from incredibly dramatic game one to, whoa, game two. That was boring and a blowout. A brilliant basketball mind from DNVR Sports, from the All-NBA podcast and the All-City Network, Adam Morris. How are you, sir?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Yes, so let's talk Nuggets Thunder. Not really that much to say about Game 2, which had all the makings of classic home team loses Game 1, comes out roaring in Game 2. Road team is like, we got the split, and oh my God, they're going to play this hard, and the refs are going to let all this go, and they're going to take the ball from us all the time.
The Zach Lowe Show
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All right, what time is the flight back to Denver? But I just will ask you generally, Did anything as you look ahead to game three, did anything that happened in game two or even game one or changes from game one to game two strike you as, OK, I'm going to be watching for that or that's interesting. The Thunder did that and it worked. What's the Nuggets counter? Anything like that?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Yeah, the role players missed their shots before the game got out of hand and then some people got hot late in the game. I think you make a great point because in general, I thought Oklahoma City went into game one thinking about their half-court offense and specifically thinking...
The Zach Lowe Show
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Okay, we're going to put Chet on Jokic because Chet has had one good defensive game on Jokic last season when he got a bunch of blocks. We like that sort of matchup. And then maybe we'll get Jokic stuck on Chet on the other end and we can get into his pick and pop game and force Denver into rotation. Played Chet at center quite a bit. as the only big man on the floor.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And in game two, they flipped the matchups in a way that I frankly thought they would to open the series, which is Hartenstein on Jokic, Chet as the Gobert rover on Aaron Gordon, sometimes Christian Brown. I just think that makes a lot more sense. Not only that, they paired other Jalen Williams with Chet a lot and had, I mean, talk about a guy who is physical with Jokic.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Big Jalen Williams is beating the hell out of him. Yeah. And if the refs are going to let go, do it like both teams should do it. And they sort of just were like, you know what? We're not going to hunt this like Chet Jokic thing on offense. We're going to trade that for size and rebounding. And to your point, the similar open threes thing was allowing those open threes was the same trade off.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I still thought that was some galaxy brain insanity by Joe Missoula who did not. Okay. All right. Enough with that. The Celtics' offense was disgusting, again. And I thought it was even more disgusting in Game 2 than it was in Game 1 when they took 63s. I don't know how many they took last night, but it wasn't 60. I don't even know where to start, Fred. You know what? I do know where to start.
The Zach Lowe Show
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They just decided we're going to get bigger. We're going to get tougher. And that meant a change in minutes patterns and a change in when like even putting Chet back into the rotation when Shea rests, which was the way they started the season was anytime Shea is on the bench, good, better Jalen Williams and Shett are going to be on the floor.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Then they gradually sort of shifted Shett out of that a lot and put Hartenstein back on the floor, which I didn't really get why they were doing that. But in this series, doing that aligns the Shett at center minutes to when Jokic is on the bench. I think they just sort of made a general trade-off that made sense for them and used matchups to That made more sense for them.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And I would assume I mean, I assume they're going to play that way to start the series. I assume they will come out and play that way again in game three.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, and that's, I mean, baked into it is, you know, they were guarding and have been guarding Michael Porter Jr. with Jalen Williams, perimeter Jalen Williams. I really don't like doing this Jalen Williams thing. It's very annoying. And so there's a cross match on the other end when they get a stop. And I still don't think they're hunting Porter Jr.
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enough, although I liked very early in the game. They went to a Shea-Chet pick-and-roll to poke at Michael Porter Jr., and Chet rolled to the rim, which is, I think, smart, even if Hartenstein's on the floor. And I think they hit him on the short roll, and then he lobbed to Hartenstein for a dunk.
The Zach Lowe Show
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But, yeah, I mean, that's a good way to get Jalen Williams going, who had a bad first game and a much better game last night. Another thing Chet on the second, or non-Shea...
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unit did is like deandre jordan can't play against that lineup i mean that was rendered very very clear they put him on case and wallace case and wallace just feasted on open threes and that's what you just can't if wallace and wiggins and joe are going to come off the bench and make shot you have no chance like just no chance to beat this team um but yeah i thought i thought i mean look
The Zach Lowe Show
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Frankly, I thought Oklahoma City overthought game one. I thought they overthought the matchups by getting too cute and flipping the big man matchups the way they did. And they definitely overthought the fouling up three on crunch time. I have not had a podcast. I went on Bill's podcast and talked about it. I could not understand what they were doing. I I'm a foul up three guy.
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My line of demarcation is like eight seconds, anything more than that. And then they thought they put in their rebounders. Like they think Jokic is going to miss the free throw on purpose. Like he's not going to miss it. He's going to make it. Then they have a chance to continue play with Jokic on the bench. Like Denver takes Jokic out. Down one with, what, 13 seconds left or something? Right.
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And because they have to foul, and Jokic has five fouls, and they don't even foul. Shea just gets a dunk. The game's going on. Denver has no timeouts. They can't bring Jokic back in the game. And rather than make Denver figure out how to get a three... Or foul them with four seconds left and no Jokic. They foul and let Jokic. I just could not believe it. And Mark Dagnall mismanaged that game.
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I'm going to start a couple of places. It's as if they've lost... Any layer below the first layer of their offense. Like, I promise you that at some point, this was a team that could run multiple things on the same possession. I promise you, it happened. Here are just like three possessions from down the stretch last night. Just going to narrate what happened. Okay, Fred, you were there.
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It was a bad game. I think they should be up 2-0. And if they lose this series, they're going to look back at game one and be like, man, and Chet misses the free throws and the dunks and everything. That was a credit to Nuggets. They were awesome. Aaron Gordon. You mentioned helping off Aaron Gordon. he's like a knockdown shooter. Now it's not just like, he's always good on open shots.
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He's, he is going to knock down open threes period, like unbelievable development story, especially in transition.
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Yeah, just how do you feel about the series? Denver got the split. It's 1-1. They're going home. They've had a nice, very good playoff series win over the Clippers. won the opener on the road. They have home court. I, I zoom out, you know, I put my notes down. I just like, how do I feel? And every series has a certain feel to it.
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This one, I'm like, I'm not sure who, I guess I should feel better about Denver because they got the split. I picked Oklahoma city in six. I don't know if you made a pick. I can't remember. But I don't really know how to feel about it after two games. How do you feel about it? Like, what's your gut saying?
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By the way, it's a big reason why I picked the Thunder. I think the Thunder are better, but like... Every other day, I just worry about how long can you go just playing these guys this many minutes when one of them is already injured.
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You saw it. 225 in the fourth quarter. They run the Tatum staggered pick and roll with Towns' guy and Brunson's guy. Hey, bring your weak links up to me. One of them is going to switch on to me. Nope. OGN and OB navigates fine. Jason Tatum comes to the other end of that pick and roll. OGN and OB is right in front of him. Like, hey, I'm here. Your play failed.
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Well, look, I mean, obviously Jokic can score one-on-one against Holmgren. You can just put him in the basket. Holmgren will get a block with his length every once in a while. He can score one-on-one on Hartenstein. He can score one-on-one on everybody. Hartenstein and Jalen Williams are at least strong.
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And the Thunder are going to present the biggest challenge probably Jokic has ever faced in terms of mind games, space clogging, arms everywhere, guys digging down, then leaving. And you've seen him have a couple of flustered turnovers in the first couple of games. He's the best player in the world. if you show him the same look over and over again, he's going to figure it out immediately.
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If you show him the same look three times, he's going to have it figured out. They can show him lots of different looks with lots of different people. And that's where Denver's lack of shooting is just a killer because, you know, you take one of Murray or Porter off the floor and it's just, you reach a level of disaster, like, and Jokic has the ball. So he's one of your shooters. He's got the ball.
The Zach Lowe Show
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There's just not enough space for all the guys cutting into each other. But look, Denver has proven its metal and its toughness. And Christian Brown is going to make four threes in a game. And Aaron Gordon's a knockdown shooter. And Russell Westbrook is shooting well. I don't know what's really happening, but he's shooting well. He's always shot corner threes pretty well.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And by the way, you mentioned Cason Wallace. One thing I will say that if there's a battleground that we haven't seen much of yet, and who knows if we'll see much of it based on how Oklahoma City adjusted, This is the best guard-guard screening role team in the NBA. It's what elevated their offense last year.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And it's what's so interesting in those Chet is the only big man minutes versus Jokic minutes is the Nuggets have decided we're not even going to put Jokic on Chet. We're going to put him on Dort or Caruso or Wallace or someone who we just don't deem a threat. And that battle barely got off the ground in game one.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And the Nuggets were able to sort... Or when he was on Chet, when he was stuck on Chet, he would drop back. Someone else would rotate up to Chet on the pop and Jokic would figure out someone else to go guard down in the corner. And Denver executed that well. Another thing you could do is if he's on Caruso or Dort, just have those guys set the screen and see what happens. That's a battle that...
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
no matter what Oklahoma city does rotation wise, whether it's because of foul trouble or need or the way the game is flowing, we're going to see that over a more extended period. I think at some point in these Denver games, and I'm very curious to see how it's handled by the nuggets and who kind of comes out ahead there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
There's 13 seconds left on the shot clock. Jason Tatum's like, you know what? The best I can think of is I'm just going to dribble around a little bit and take a fadeaway jumper over OGN and OB, the best defender on the other team on the baseline. Miss. Number of passes on the possession, Fred. Zero. Next possession. Jalen Brown, Drew Holiday pick and roll.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
You have to play with that gamble against Oklahoma City.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
I honestly was surprised that they didn't pull the plug sooner in that game. To your point about Dort and Caruso, one thing I will credit those guys on is they will keep taking the shot. Like, Dort will miss five in a row and keep shooting. Whereas Dunn, If he misses two in a row, he's probably going to bag it, and then your whole offense kind of stalls out.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Real quickly, before we get big picture, what do you think of Denver's own overall in the playoffs and so far in this series?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Well, you also got the... A couple of offensive rebounds. Hartenstein had a putback. I think one of their guards snuck in for a putback. And I'm looking up the numbers right now. And corner threes. Wiggins got a couple wide open corner threes. You give up above the break threes, that's fine. You start giving up wide open corner threes and it doesn't go well.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
1.23 points per possession against Denver zone last night, which is pretty good. It's not amazing, but it's, it's good enough. Big, bigger picture. We have now lived in this reality for a few weeks of the post Malone. I don't pun intended post Malone post booth world, the sudden, but not quite that sudden.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
If you've been in connection with team firings, but still surprising because of the timing you were mentioning to me offline, like, it really sort of is a line of demarcation in their season. Like this is a strange season. How much has changed? And like, what has that been like up close?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Drew Holiday is being guarded by Jalen Brunson. Hey, come up, come up. By the way, Drew Holiday beat the hell out of Jalen Brunson in the first four minutes of the game. Got the Knicks to switch Jalen Brunson onto Derek White, which should be a huge win for Boston's offense. And yet we never saw it again, ever. Ever. They put him back on Drew Holiday at the end of the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
By the way, People were skeptical. They really believe in the team, and that's why they're doing this. It was true. That was legit. There was a sense of this team is actually still a great team in there somewhere, and we can't get it out unless we make these changes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
They're at a talent deficit, but they have the best guy and they have home court advantage. And you can throw the scoring margin out just like you did against the Clippers, who I believe had the positive scoring margin for the series. Denver's just taking it game by game. And if it's close, you can give Jalen Brunson the Mr. Clutch Award. He's been unbelievable.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Nikola Jokic is the best late game player in the NBA. If it's close, they've got a chance. Adam Morris, if you're not listening to the All-City Podcast with Adam and Tim Legler, Boy, what a delight that is. I can't say I listen to every episode because I just don't listen to daily podcasts that often. But anytime I get a chance, I pop it on. Legs is the best. You're the best. Who knows?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And the Celtics players, coaches were like, did they even realize? Did they remember what happened to the first four minutes of the game? Anyway, 150 left in the fourth quarter. Jalen Brown rejects the screen, gets the switch. Jalen Brunson's on him. Takes... A leaning, falling, like 8 to 10 footer from the dotted line miss. Not a terrible shot. Number of passes on the possession, zero.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Maybe I'll see you in Denver. Adam Morris. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. Well, enjoy the weekend. If it's anything like the last week, it's going to be wild. We'll be coming back on Monday from Chicago, Illinois, where I'll be for the lottery to recap everything that happens and look ahead to whatever is coming next.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Thank you to producers, Jesse, Chris, Bobby, and on graphics, Oscar. I will see everybody on Monday. Must be 21 and over and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call the 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com slash RG.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Switch again occurs with 13 on the shot clock. Shot clock, for those who are unfamiliar, Fred, is 24 seconds. So when there are 13 seconds on it, not even half of it has elapsed. I promise you, you're allowed to do something else. You're allowed to run a second action. 115 in the fourth quarter. Sideline out of bounds play. Brown, Holiday, pick and roll again. Brunson, switch again.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Jalen Brown with... I don't know how many on the shot clock. I didn't write it down. Probably enough time. Takes, I'm going to say, the worst shot I've ever seen Jalen Brown take in a basketball game. Leaning forward into Jalen Brunson's chin from the left elbow. I guess grifting for a foul. By the way, you're the same guy who bullied Josh Hart seven times in the first half of the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show, where the wildest second round in recent NBA playoff history rolled on last night. Fred Katz from The Athletic, how are you?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And you're taking this shot. Number of passes on the possession, Fred. Zero. Zero. I promise you. This is a team that used to have layers to its offense. That used to be like, oh, that thing failed. How about Derek White, who's being guarded a lot by Jalen Brunson? Set a flare screen. Run a split action with Jason Tatum. See what happens. Get the Knicks moving. What the hell happened to your team?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
It devolved into a puddle of nothing. It's on the coaches. It's on the players. It was disgusting. You're allowed to pass. Like, I sound like an old man. It was gross. And the Knicks were fully up for whatever shit Boston was throwing at them. Credit Brunson and Cat for holding up and not being the Wheatlings. By the way, flashing back a year ago,
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
That Minnesota first-round series against Phoenix told us something about Cat. And it kind of got lost in the shuffle because the Minnesota-Denver series was so epic. He guarded Durant in that series because he had to. That was the only matchup that really made sense. And he did okay. Like, he didn't do great, but it wasn't embarrassing, and he actually had some really good stretches.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
That's been on my mind watching him switch into series. That's just a stretch run, Fred. What am I missing? And then the Knicks are scoring. Bridges is going crazy. Hart's going crazy. Brunson does what Brunson does. Basket, foul at the end of the game. Tatum, of course, doesn't even get a real shot off at the end.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Am I missing any other notes from the last four minutes of this grotesque shamockery of Boston crunch time offense?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
They have nine baskets in the fourth quarter in two games.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Is that how you pronounce that?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
C-day to C-day? How do I say that?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Well, I'll tell you this, Fred. The great thing about the playoffs is it's stressful. The other team is 100% focused. They're scheming for you in ways that they would not do in the regular season. All the attention's on you. The environments are crazy.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Do they get a trophy for that? By the way, do they get any awards? Cause I looked at the tracking data today. Guess who has won the shot quality battle? According to the algorithms on second spectrum through two games, Boston, Boston has a higher expected field goal percentage. When you account for who is taking the shots, um,
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
And they have underperformed that field goal percentage by 16 percentage points. When you account for, again, who's taking the shot, how much distance there is. The Knicks are a little bit below them and have also underperformed by three points. You know how many wins you get credited for, for winning the shot quality battle, Fred? Zero wins. Congratulations. You won the shot quality battle.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
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The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
You mentioned the fact that really when the Luka trade happened, this season almost in the, in the sort of afterglow of that trade, this season was almost an afterthought. The trade was about the future, about a bridge to the post LeBron era. And yeah, this season's roster was incomplete. Um, they would have to address some of the holes in the off season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And it, but the future had been set up for them. And that was the point of the trade. And then as the team started winning, it was like, Oh, okay. Kind of forgot that Luca and LeBron are like really awesome. And they've got some interesting supporting pieces around them. This team can do some damage in the playoffs. And I, and I thought they could do some damage in the playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Obviously that was proven incorrect. It seems obvious what they need to do in the off season. Depending on LeBron's player option, they're going to have very little flexibility to really do stuff in terms of free agency signings. They could have the baby mid-level exception and stay under the aprons. They're under the aprons, which is good. Helps them make trades.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And then obviously they have all the stuff that they traded for Mark Williams. They have the 2031 pick or 2032 pick. They have a bunch of swaps. They have Dalton Connect. They have stuff they can aggregate and move for a center who can give Luca the passing target that he needs and shore up the defense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Because my God, that small ball lineup, you could see Anthony Edwards digested in real time as the series was going on. He would drive and he would just, you could see his mind thinking, if I can just get by the first guy, I don't really even care who's next. There was a drive where I can't remember who he beat at the point of attack, but
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And then two guys swarmed on him near the rim, and he just went through them and laid the ball in. And then you replay, it's like, oh, it's Gabe Vincent and Austin Reeves. Like, of course he doesn't care. He's just going to go through those guys. So it seems obvious that they'll come back with a better, more complete team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
But you know where we have to start, right? Thumbgate? Nope. Nope. We got to start here. Yesterday, I was doing some prep for the second round, trying to get ahead of it. We're going to talk about Pacer's Cavs, which is set in stone shortly. And I just started going through in my head, you know, all the interesting Warriors, Timberwolves storylines. Jimmy Butler, Vengeance.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Next year, I'm assuming LeBron is not going to retire despite the fact that we do the same dance after every time the Lakers get eliminated from the playoffs. So if I don't know, I'm not sure I've heard no buzz that he's going to retire. No one in his orbit has flagged it for me. Anything's possible, but I'm expecting him to come back and play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
The question then would be, does he do the thing that he did last year where he kind of waits and opens up the possibility of, yeah, I'll opt out and maybe take a pay cut if you can find somebody with the big mid-level exception? We'll see. But there's only so much they can do, and the West is awesome and only going to get better.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
The likelihood remains that this team will not win a championship in the next two or three years. It's just going to be very hard. But they have Luka. And if Luka can get in shape and get healthy and he's just – it's one of my – I mean, he got fouled hard last night. He got fouled hard and it hurt. And he fell awkwardly and his back bent a little bit. That hurts. But he's always laboring.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Like when it's Kevin Harlan, who is amazing. Kevin Harlan is just killing all these games. He's so good. He's like, Luka's laboring up the court. I'm like, Luka is to laboring like Joel Embiid is to ramping up. They're always doing it. That's their just general state of existence is he's laboring.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I'm just excited for any Austin Reeves extension drama. And there's not going to be any, I would be absolutely baffled if he took any extension, the Lakers can offer him. I'm just excited for any reason for bill to bring up the Spurs, not pursuing Austin Reeves in the office, the phantom offer sheet.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
This is the sweet spot where negotiating is really fun. Negotiating a max contract, there's a reason why some max players have just fired their agents. They don't need any. I could do a max contract. 35% give me the whole thing. And then there's the rookie scale and all that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Dorian Finney-Smith is in a really interesting spot where if I were his agent, I would go to the Lakers and be like, hey, I want to opt out and I want a new deal. And I want the new deal to look like this. Because if you lose me, it's going to be hard to replace me and my skillset. And as evidenced by, I had to play like the entire back half of the Minnesota Temple Wolf series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I, if I were his agent, I would, I would opt out and make a new deal and more money. And I would bring, I would squeeze the Lakers for everything they're worth.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
All the Draymond, Rudy Gobert stuff over the years. Draymond, obviously, put him in the chokehold. Put him in the million-dollar dream for a bit. Made fun of him multiple times for weeping upon not making the 2019 All-Star Game. Brought it up again three years later to make fun of him. Went on him as part of the TNT crew. We just went at him like every single game. And I'm thinking about that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I'm surprised they didn't get Gafford in the Luka trade. Maybe they should have gone back at the last minute and said, you know what? We're just not sure about this Luka guy. Can he throw in Gafford as a sweetener?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It'll be a fungible guy, unless there's some move we don't see, it'll be a Capella type where it's just sort of a fungible, like replacement level, decent guy. And Mark Williams was just a really interesting upside bet. And I don't know what that physical showed. I don't know what they saw. I don't know if he would have been ready for this kind of stage defensively.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And they knew that in trading for him, that it was, there's a learning curve and he's obviously missed like half of his NBA games so far due to injury. So he doesn't have a ton of experience. Yeah. Going back to something I said before, I want to clarify this. I said it's unlikely that the Lakers ever win a championship in the Luka LeBron era. Yeah, I believe that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
If they nail this offseason, is there a finals-level ceiling for a team with Luka LeBron and better depth and a real big man? Sure. It's just wildly unlikely that with LeBron now passing 40 that they're going to win three or four playoff series. It's just such a – I mean, look how hard these series are. and there'd be three, two left. If they got by this one, they won one game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So yeah, they it's possible, but in this conference, it's just, it's just really, really hard. All right, let's move on from the Lakers because they have moved on from our lives. Uh, although I did enjoy JJ's cranky, uh, pregame press conference yesterday where he walked out after a question about the substitution patterns and really took it, took it as an upfront. Um,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I haven't done an episode since the bucks collapsed and their season was over and Giannis and Tyrese Halliburton's father got into it after the game. And then Giannis did his annual, I'm going to give an incredibly thoughtful four minute monologue about losing and the nature of losing. Um, I mean, look, I don't know even what to do with that collapse.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It's just absolutely an incredible sequence of events involving Gary Trent Jr. turnovers and Andrew Nembhard hitting a quick three. By the way, that Andrew Nembhard three and the fact that they end up winning the game is why you don't take the quick two. You just have to take threes when you're in a situation like this. And he did, and he got it into a manageable spot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I don't know what to... Do you have any hot takes on the John Halliburton versus Giannis... confrontation. I can't honestly say that. Ryan Clark on ESPN called for him to be banned from all future NBA games. I was like, that's a, all right, we're getting scorchers on John Halliburton.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Then I watch... Warriors-Lakers. And boy, they'll lead up to that series. I don't know, Rudy against the five-out lineup, he could get played off the floor. And I've been consistent on this dating to the end of the Utah Jazz, the Terrence Mann game, the Mavs series, when teams would go five-out against Gobert. And everyone would.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Look, first of all, 30, 20, and 13 in a game in which his team was super undermanned. Just an awesome performance in 44 minutes. And I recorded Monday after Dame's injury and all of that, so I did this. But just put it simply, there is no hope for this team to win big as currently constructed. There is no hope.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Trading Dame was the last pivot point that they could potentially maybe have to surround Giannis with a winning roster. I already did this episode. I'm not going to do it again. And the one point I wanted to amplify is there's no path to reclaiming their own draft picks that have been traded in the Drew Holiday and Damian Lillard trades.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
There is no path to getting those picks back Nets style and opening up a tank path. that does also not include trading Giannis. The only way to get those picks back is to trade Giannis for a shit ton of stuff and trade some of that stuff to the teams that have your own picks and get those picks back along with hopefully picks from a team like Phoenix or something.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So you can triangulate your bets against lots of other teams. So there's just no middle ground where, yeah, we keep Giannis. We also get our picks. We also have, there's no hope here. And you said it's up to Giannis. The Bucks should do their due diligence. Look, I think Giannis, The Bucs will never trade Giannis without telling him that they're going to do it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
They'll never even open up trade discussions, I don't think, without asking him, hey, can we do this? And I don't know what's going to happen. It's ultimately going to be up to Giannis. And it's going to be up to Giannis and the Bucs who have to stare at this reality that it's over as a championship contender in Milwaukee for the next X amount of years. And what do you want to do about it?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
What do we want to do about it together? And I don't think anyone's going to begrudge anybody either way. That's it on Bucs. I have no hot takes on Tyrese Halliburton's death. Is it a little immature to wave a towel in Giannis' face and talk shit to him after he almost single-handedly beat your fully healthy Indiana Pacers team at home in an elimination game? Yeah, it's a little immature. Like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I like how Giannis was like, I might do that. If my sons become good basketball players, I might be that guy. I would hope I wouldn't be that guy. It's not a great look. But anyway, that's all I have to say on John Halliburton. Good moment for the Pacers. The Zach Lowe Show is brought to you by FanDuel.
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Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
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Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
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Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
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The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Bonus batch expires seven days after receipt restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Warriors, Rockets. Houston blows them out at home in game five. Warriors banking on game six. What did you see? in this game that if you're a Rockets fan, you can say, okay, I can take that with me to golden state.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It happened this week with absolutely no evidence at all that Rudy Gobert was a problem defensively. People were nitpicking Rudy Gobert's defense and saying, defensive player of the year, he should be matchup proof. And I said over and over again, dating to all those series, I've been consistent on it the whole time. The problem was never his defense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And that's a, that is a sustainable thing. As you said, like Fred Van Vliet shooting eight of 13, four of six from three may not be sustainable. Dylan Brooks shooting seven of 13, Alman Thompson, eight of 12, although sensational game, the shooting may not be sustainable, but what's something that happened in that game that could be sustainable?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
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The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It was curious to me. I don't know if you felt the same way. No, I mean, I'm pro Steph attacking Shingun. I'm pro him doing it off the ball to like run him off screens with Shingun's guy. But what you're saying is is true in this sense. They're putting Shingun on Pajemski. And we will talk about this new warrior starting five and whether it's a starting five that can work in the next round.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And it's the same concept of when they put Stephen Adams on Quentin Post, when those guys overlap. Because there are other places to put Stephen Adams, like Gary Payton II, Moses Moody, whatever. And putting him on a shooting center seems a little counterintuitive.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
The reason they're doing it is to almost bait the Warriors into using that guy, Quentin Post, as the screener with no shooters around him so that the help can come from every direction. Yes. But I'm still pro Steph attacking it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Maybe just mix up how you do it because the warriors can win a lot of those past, past, past four on three battles with Pajemski as the four on three guy, and they can mix it up. Yeah. I would like, like, Jimmy Butler is recovering from an injury. He's probably back earlier than he would be. It's a big factor in the series. Just didn't feel his impact in the game hardly at all last night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Any seven-footer... Yeah, it's not ideal when a team goes five out and a rim protector has to guard a shooter. That's a problem for any big rim protector. No one is going to be able to get from the corner to the rim and back when you're seven feet two. It's just not... It's not... It's not doable. And yeah, it's not ideal when a team can do that to you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
There were a few Butler-Curry two-man game situations where I'd like them to lean more into that if Jimmy's physically up to it because it's a way to get him on Fred VanVleet, who's hard to move. I get it. or Buddy Heal, or not Buddy Heal, Jalen Green. He had the quarterback keeper in a two-man game with Buddy Heal. Then the point of that was to hunt Jalen Green and he just fooled everybody.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Play a little bully ball. I think that was an element that was a little bit missing. I'll just, I think the Warriors are going to win game six. I feel like I've seen this movie dozens of times before, not just with the Warriors, but with a lot of teams. It is dangerous to bank on game six at home. I picked Warriors in seven.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I don't think they're really phased by playing on the road in any of these games anyway. But I do feel like the Warriors just kind of didn't have it When Steve Kerr is talking, the TNT broadcasters are talking about how if the lead gets too big, Steve Kerr's already telegraphed that he's going to wave the white flag early.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
That's a tell to me that they're not surprised that they came out and laid an egg in this game. I expect them to win game six. And I feel like I've already seen the game. Warriors will be up by five, six, eight. Houston will make a run and cut it to two with three minutes left. Steph will make a shot. Jimmy will make a shot. Warriors win by eight, and they move on to the next round.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Yeah, that was a good one. Ahmed Thompson had two pick sixes against Curry, and then they threw the ball off Quentin Post's face. That was a good one.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And it can make you look a little awkward at times. The problems were twofold. Number one, the perimeter defenders on his teams stunk and got blown by over and over and over and left him out to dry on an impossible island to defend. Guess what? The perimeter defenders on his team don't stink anymore. And the main problem number two was offense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So, so the pick and roll point you just made about the half court picks and all that, and the Shen Goon rescreen and hard roll is a really important point in the series, because one of the reasons why Houston's half, half court offense is just stalled out constantly. And there are many, many reasons. It's an offense that's, frankly, in its infancy stylistically. They just don't have counters.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
They don't do a lot of interesting things. They do one thing. And if you stop that one thing, they don't really know what else to do. But another big reason is the Warriors are playing the Jalen Green, Shang-Goon, and Fred Van Vliet, Shang-Goon, pick and roll two on two. Draymond is containing everything, keeping everything in front of him. And they don't have to send help from anywhere.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And Houston's big men cannot get behind Draymond on the roll.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Houston played with more ways to orchestrate that pick and roll in game five that forced the Warriors to send some help Dylan Brooks got a kick out three when they set it up at one point and and uh I think it was got a little bit behind Draymond you just got to get some traction whether it's playing with where the screen is attacking it in different ways setting a re-screen having uh
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
uh setting a screen for the screener on his way up to set the real pick so that there's some momentum going into it just something to get the Warriors to scrunch in you mentioned um the zone I looked it up this morning uh the Warriors against Houston zone 0.91 points per possession so far in this series that is very bad for the Warriors and very good for the Rockets um
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And it's not just that it's the two centers. It's just, as you pointed out earlier, everybody on the floor is gigantic. They close every space super fast. And another reason I think under the radar why the zone is really working, you know, they've dared to play it when Steph is on the floor a little bit, but they play it a lot when Steph is off the floor. And those are the Jimmy Butler minutes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And it's harder for Jimmy Butler to just kind of pick his matchups and do Jimmy Butler hunting, Jimmy Butler bully ball against his own defense. And it's kind of confusing what the Warriors would like to be a simpler offensive process. The one guy who's killing the zone is Pajemski. He just moves into every open space. He's constantly in motion. He's been awesome against the zone.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Just Adam Shengun together. Plus 31 in 54 minutes. 48% offensive rebounding rate. The Rockets' offensive rebounding rate for this series is 37%. That would have been number one. Houston has attempted 42 more free throws than the Warriors. Now, they've made like half as many more free throws than the Warriors because they can't freaking shoot from the foul line.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And a couple other smart things I just wanted to highlight. They have finally started to go at Steph in some creative ways. Dylan Brooks sealed him for a high low. Tari Eason sealed him for a high low. And Amin Thompson, games one to three, total 12 pick and rolls. Games four and five total, 22 pick and rolls. That's according to Second Spectrum. He's gone at Steph one on one a little bit.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
He could never punish those teams on offense despite being by far the biggest player on the floor. And that's what you need your center to do. You need your center to get offensive rebounds, roll for dunks, and do big guy stuff so that they can't put Reggie Jackson on you and live with it. So that they have to put their big guy back in the game and sacrifice some of their shooting
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And I expect the Warriors to be like, all right, look, this is cool. We're not letting you do this anymore. We're going to duck way under screens against you. We're going to be a little more diligent against you in the pick and roll. But we'll see. I mean, look, the Rockets are a tough team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
They're now plus six for the series overall, despite the Warriors winning garbage time last night and kind of fake getting back into the game. They're a good team. It just feels like a series where they're really going to rue the game for loss and they're going to lose in six. But stranger things have happened. Fun game, fun, not fun game last night. The thumb stuff.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
OK, first of all, did you see the press conference where Steve Kerr talks about going after and Dylan Brooks? What is your what is your reaction to this?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I guess he's referring to like the high five closeout, which is not a foul. And I guess the implication is, and you could see Steph motioning for it like four minutes into the game when Shingun and Dylan Brooks closed out on him, that they're hitting, they're hitting me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And I guess the implication is, I mean, this is not the first player to have a thumb injury in other players have, you know, like if he were a big man posting up, people would be swatting at his thumb. But I guess the implication is they're, they're getting over exuberant with the high five closeout in an attempt to knock at his, at his thumb. Dylan Brooks didn't exactly deny it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I would have followed up with Dylan Brooks. Like, do you mean you would just like go at the guy with a sprained ankle and make him defend in space? Or do you mean you would like try to kick the guy's ankle and actually injure it? I don't think that would be the follow-up question. Dylan, are you there behind your sunglasses that you always wear indoors for some reason? Can you, hello? Um,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I don't, Steve Kerr made it seem like the coaches association has had 14 meetings about this and they're like unanimous and they're preparing a very sternly worded letter and PowerPoint presentation to the league. I will say this arose because the Warriors broadcast pointed it out and said they've done this before. There is no more Homer broadcast in the entire NBA.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And for all I know in the world of sports than the Warriors broadcast, you don't have to take what they say with a grain of salt. You have to take what they say with a silo of salt. And of course, they're going to bring it up and accuse the Rockets of nefariousness. I just would also like to say you have Draymond Green on your team, right?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
You don't think that dude is a ultra physical to the point that he's borderline, like getting teed up or ejected from half the games and be any dirty trick, not dirty. I retract the word. I use it in the facetious sense, any bit of extra physicality. And let me grab an arm. Andrew Bogut used to be the master of just grabbing people's arms so they couldn't rotate on defense. Like, okay.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
on offense to counter what you're doing to them on offense. And he was never able to do that. Until last night, Michael Pina, 27 points, 24 rebounds. He looked like, is Gulliver big and the Lilliputians are small? Whatever that is, that's what he looked like in that game. It's the best game of Rudy Gobert's career. He switched on to LeBron over and over and over. They were fine with it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I would just say, let's give it a rest, win game six and move on if you can to face whoever you to face Minnesota. And that would be, Again, I was doing prep for that series. That would be a really fun series. And one of the questions I would have right away is, it's interesting how many lineups Steve Kerr is toggling through.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And he has now, for two games in a row, decided we're not starting Moses Moody anymore. We need more shooting, more playmaking. We need to make life more difficult for Alper and Shingun. We need to give him no safe-ish places to hide and try to coax him toward guarding Draymond, which they don't want to do too often.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And so they're starting a very small lineup of Curry, Heald, Pajemski, Butler, Green. And you just start outlining the matchups in a possible Minnesota series. And you're like, who's guarding who? Does that hold up? Is there enough size there? Because you've got to find guys to guard Ant and Randall and Gobert, who needs to be accounted for, as he just reminded us.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And Draymond and Butler can only guard two of those three players. And so I wouldn't be surprised if they get to that series and Buddy Heald is now coming off the bench again. and Moses Moody comes in, he's guarded Ant a bit, or Gary Payton II has guarded Ant a bit in their prior matches.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I don't know that that lineup stands up to Minnesota, but it's interesting that we get all the way to this point in the season, and the Warriors are still just flying through lineups and trying everything. They played a lineup last night
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Curry, Moody, Butler, Guy Santos, and Kevon Looney that had played two possessions total, according to Cleaning the Glass, in the regular season and playoffs combined before that game. And Guy Santos made a couple threes. I was like, all right, Guy Santos.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
No, Kaminga, no. Move on. This is not worth it. I've given up. Sad times. You've given up on Jonathan Kaminga? No, I've given up on them playing. It's sad times right now. What could we call the Kaminga? It can't be an island and everything could be an island. I like alliteration, like Kaminga K. Something like that. Kaminga Keys? Yeah, Kaminga Keys. It's rough right now. It sure is. Powers out.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Winds are heavy. Pacers, Cavs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
preview this series after the Cavs I think the Cavs the Cavs should just get to take a player from the heat they should just that's how much they embarrass the heat the league should step in and be like you know what you get Miami you can protect two players the heat the Cavs get to pick any other player from your team and he now plays for the Cavs starting now starting in the playoffs now this is a really fun series and
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I've heard, I mean, Bill has mentioned he would pick Cleveland in seven, but he thinks Indiana has a fighting chance. Indiana has been a legit, very good team now for 55 games since, since Tyrese Halliburton had a slow start to the season and thus so today. Um, it's, it's, they're broadly similar teams. Um,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
smallish backcourts, two versatile, interesting big man pairings that are, you know, Mobley Siakam are like, you know, versatile sort of herky jerky players. Alan Turner, not that similar in terms of three point shooting, but rim protection on defense, both very low turnover teams. Um, um,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And, you know, both teams are going to play around with where do we hide our small guards on defense or our defensively challenged guards? Where do we hide Halliburton? Who does Garland guard? Both play fast. Both have very deep benches. And so it's an interesting clash in that sense. I just keep coming back to
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Like, you want to go at him with LeBron? He'll switch. He'll contain him. The only time he got beat really was on a backdoor cut. His defense on Luka, the entire... I read the stats on this podcast a week ago with John Krasinski when people were making fun of Rudy Gobert. The stats said, and the eye test said, minus one or two lowlights... He was doing great. He got picked sixes against him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Um, I just think Cleveland is, does, has like everything Indiana has, and they're just better across the board. Talent wise. They also look incredibly fresh. Like you can tell, you can tell that Donovan Mitchell's minutes load has been lower this season. I mean, he just looks, he just looked like he was faster than everyone in the Miami games.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So I'm going to pick Cleveland in the series, but I do think it's interesting. Where would you like to start thinking about this, uh, this matchup?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
He was great again last night. What a moment for Rudy Gobert, the NBA's punching bag, and he sends the Lakers home. An incredible game that was a strange game because at halftime, the Wolves were up by 10. It felt like they were up by 20. The Lakers were doubling Anthony Edwards all over the floor, and he was just brilliantly, patiently, calmly, not forcing it, not saying, I got to be the man.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I think it's going to be central, like it will be for most teams the Pacers play. On paper, and I think to some degree in reality, I mean, Indiana's been a good defensive team now for quite a while. I think they ended up middle of the pack, but last 50 games are probably eighth, ninth, something like that. Nembhardt, and Neesmith are a very good twosome to put on Garland and Mitchell.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Halliburton will hide on Max Struess, which means Max Struess is going to guard Halliburton some on the other end and might be the primary matchup anyway. I mean, they haven't, you know, going back and even in previous seasons, you know, Garland will guard him a little bit. Mitchell will guard him a little bit. They've used Levert on him. They've used, who's not on the team anymore.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
They've used Struess on him. Dean Wade, Dustin Wade, Isaac Okoro. Isaac Okoro has guarded both Pascal Siakam and Tyrese Halliburton. So, you know, we'll see. But that's like a decent defensive setup. And then you have, you know, Siakam Turner against Mobley Allen, which is, you know, those guys are all very good players. And they're going to put Max Struess into the action.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
They're going to have him set ball screens for Garland and Mitchell and just see what you do. You switch. We can go to work a little bit. You hedge, which has been Indiana's de facto Halliburton thing, and now you're in rotation. And that's the moment that scares me because... This team, the Cavaliers are the poster team for pace is not just a transition stat.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Pace is about how you run your half court offense. Everything they do is so goddamn fast. Everything is full speed, full urgency, every cut, every handoff, every fake toward the screen and go the other way. And once they start, once you get in that first rotation, they are just eating you alive and they're one step ahead of you the entire way. And then, The Pacers bench...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
This is a big, big test defensively for Matherin, assuming he can play. Shepard, if he's in the rotation. TJ McConnell, who hasn't quite been the same guy defensively this year. Obi Toppin, like I could see Obi Toppin having a rough defensive series. And that means more minutes for Jairus Walker. It's a big, big test for them.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And there will be times where the Cavs just get good stuff from Mobley on switches or their traditional pick and rolls work because their guards are just so good. It's a big, big challenge.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
for for Indiana for Indiana's defense now Indiana's offense is going to present a massive challenge for Cleveland's defense which we can get to but you know on despite the matchups being good on paper when it's starters versus starters and Nembhard and Neesmith are a very good defensive tandem it's going to be it's just this offense is the number one offense in the NBA I mean it's just a it's a freaking machine right now yeah you know I was watching some of
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Why are you putting two on me? Make the simple read. Let the offense take care of itself from there. They had some Wolves haywire moments in the second half where they kind of forgot what was working for them. And Rudy Gobert, every time the haywire moments were coming, lob dunk, offensive rebound, lob dunk. And the Lakers are out, and Minnesota moves on.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
The NBA just should have stopped Game 4 after the first possession where he stole an entry pass and went coast to coast. That should have just been, you know what, game over. We're done. We're done here. Should have been like... That's it. Yeah, that's all. I was going to tell a parent sports story, but I don't have time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I mean, like... Similarly, on a much smaller scale, like, can Thomas Bryant play in this series? Or is this a Siakam top-end 4-5 backup center situation?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I'm not going to talk about Boston a lot in this because they're just waiting for Nick's Pistons. Number one thing for Boston is, A, I think the Orlando series will end up being very good for them. Having to find workarounds to a team determined to take away their 3s. B, they just gotta get healthy. I mean, they're like, you know, they needed to close out that series. They did
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
You know, can I just say that at least one of those Ben Caro fouls was just like, to me, I don't remember. There was one of them. I think it involved Jalen Brown. It was like, we're calling that now? Like, this is a football series and we're calling that? And then Ben Caro's.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
If I were a Magic fan, I would have been really, really pissed at those three fouls because at least one of them to me was like a total play on. He gets out of the game. they have to bring in fucking Goga and the Goga minutes are a disaster. And the game just is over. Like it went from decent game to over so fast.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And I thought one of those calls sucked and that's all, but Boston just needs to get healthy. Okay. So you're talking about Cleveland's offense and what a machine they are and all the challenges they present. the Pacers offense is awesome too. Uh, the Cavs don't have like a great matchup unless they're going to play a coral a lot. And, and Kenny Atkinson is sort of telegraphed.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Like I don't want to play a coral a lot. I'd rather over index on shooting. Uh, they don't have a great matchup, uh, for Halliburton. Um, I suspect they will try Strews. I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried Garland on him and just, you know what, Darius, like if you're healthy, if your toes, if your toes good, like we're not going to hide you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
We've said all year, you're not going to be a pigeon. You're not going to be, you know, a target. Like, let's go out and do it. I would lean a little bit on Strews gets it to start with.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And the big man matchups are interesting because they have played around with putting Mobley on Miles Turner and Jared Allen on Pascal Siakam with the idea of put your faster guy on the better three-point shooter, the pick-and-pop guy. And my number one recommendation for facing Indiana is... And credit to Miles Turner. He's become such a good shooter that this is hard to do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I'm not overreacting to the Halliburton-Miles Turner pick and pop. That doesn't mean I'm just going to let Miles Turner shoot wide-open threes, but I'm not sending a third guy scrambling to him on the pop because Tyrese Halliburton is going to see that happening before you even do it, and he's going to skip Miles Turner altogether and find the open man. I'm going to drop...
The Zach Lowe Show
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Not like Brooke Lopez level drop, like a high drop and recover. Maybe mix in a blitz here or there to make Miles Turner a playmaker. But I'm not going to send a third guy flying at that pick and roll right from the start. And I'm going to be interested to see how they react to that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Jared Allen on Tyrese Halliburton. is a problem for Cleveland. Evan Mobley on Tyrese Halliburton is totally livable. It's the other end of some of those switches that are interesting to me. This is a major Pascal Siakam series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
If they're going to switch the Pascal-Tyrese two-man game, and I would run it both ways. Run it both ways. Try to get a small guy on Siakam. If they're going to switch that, or if I can generate switches on that, he's got to eat on those switches and draw help. Who guards him when the Cavs go with one big guy?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Because you know they're going to stagger Mobley and Allen and play a lot with pick who's the four. Sometimes it's Dean Wade. Sometimes it's Okoro. Sometimes it's even Max Struess. They've got to win those minutes with Siakam. He's got to win those matchups. And maybe it's DeAndre Hunter. By the way, DeAndre Hunter has these weeks where... he just makes every contested three.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Like there's not even, there's no rotation. There's no anything. He's just like, I'm just going to take this three now with you in my face. And it went in like nine times in a row against, I don't understand it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Um, there are, there are places the Pacers can poke for sure beyond just hunt Darius Garland, which, you know, I always like when they ISO Halliburton on some of the, some smaller guards or bigger guys. I think he's a very good isolation player. Um, Again, these teams are like very not mirror images of each other, but they're very similar.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I think Indiana is going to be able to score an okay to decent amount in this series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I heard Bill and Ryan debating this series before it was even official. Bill was, as I mentioned, not quite toss-up, but expects a long series. Rusillo was a little surprised by that. Didn't make a pick, but seemed to be much more heavily Cavs. I'm going Cavs in five. I just think they're better.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
The nice, cautious person in me would go Cavs in six just to, you know, six sounds like Pacers put up a really good fight and they lost on their home floor in game six. The logical thing is if you're going to pick the Cavs, pick them at home. I'm going Cavs in five. I just think they're better. I just think they're better.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I just think they're everything Indiana is, but better at everything else across the board at almost every part of basketball. I think they're just a little better. Indiana is awesome. They're a legit, really good team. Really good team. I've been saying it – well, I haven't been saying it all year because I didn't have a job, but they've been like – they're a legit, very good team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I just think Cleveland's better. I'm going Cavs in five.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
My prediction is contingent on Darius Garland playing, and I think – If that Heat series had been competitive, I think he would have played. Okay.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
All right, everybody, coming up, we got Michael Pina on all things NBA playoffs. The Lakers are out. Rudy Gobert had a game. The Wolves are moving on. The Rockets are alive. Cavs Pacers preview. Looking ahead to games this weekend. Everything heat offseason. Coming up with Michael Pina on the Zach Lowe Show. Welcome to the Thursday edition of the Zach Lowe Show.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
You said something about the Pacers that piqued my interest, and I forgot what it was. Okay, we should not move on. before addressing the roadkill that is the Miami Heat. We can't let that... Yes, it was a sweep. Yes, it was a 1-8. You expect one to roll eight. That was...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
That was, I mean, game three, I waxed poetic about what Cleveland did to Miami in game three, how they just went to Miami and were like, we are extinguishing all hope immediately. You have no hope. We are taking your soul. We're taking your arena. We are burying you immediately.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Game four was that on the Cleveland side and a one, two, three Cancun game on the Miami side, the likes of which I don't know that I've ever seen the heat play. And I don't know that I've seen more than three or four playoff games that were more like mercy rule than this. The heat. Look, I said this a couple weeks ago. Jimmy Butler's got any stock advice for me, financial advice, life advice.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I'm taking it. That dude is right all the time. Every time he burns it to the ground, it ends up being right. This was an alarming collapse for Miami. And it raises the question of like, I think they can now look at this team and say, okay, bam, it's fine. Tyler's fine. Maybe the all-star team. Got some interesting young pieces here. Kalou wears a big success story.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Not enough has been made about Jaime Jaquez Jr. going from jewel of a potential Damian Lillard trade to just not even able to get on the court over Pella Larson in the playoffs. I think they need to sort of come. This was a very clear message. Like you are not, this is the bar. This is the bar. You saw the bar and you are not even in the same room as the bar.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And this is a team that does not react well to being this far from the bar. And that's how far they are. And so I'm expecting a big, a big off season for them. I don't know what form that's going to take. I think they'll try to butt into any superstar trade combination conversations that come up. I just, you know, they've got, they've got stuff. They just don't have that much stuff.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It felt like he had 20. It did. There was a stretch in the second half where it felt like it was the Rockets, where their best offense was just throw the ball up and Rudy will rebound the miss. Seven of 47 on threes for a team that anytime they wanted, they kind of stopped hard doubling Anthony Edwards in the second half because they realized that the reads were too easy for him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
They can trade two first-round picks right now. On draft night, they can trade a third. They've got swaps. They've got some stuff, but if the Giannis thing actually comes to bear, I just don't see how they have any shot in hell at getting into that. Durant is much more realistic to me. They concluded at the trade deadline that the Suns were asking too much for Durant.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So I expect those conversations to be a little different tone-wise on both sides if and when they resume. I don't know what other targets will emerge from them, but they've got decisions to make with Davion Mitchell, who I think played his way onto a role with the team and a real contract with the team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And they are not really slated to have, like, heat max level cap room until the summer of 2027. Summer of 2026, assuming they re-sign some of these guys, Jovic is extension eligible, assuming Andrew Wiggins opts in, which is, you know, for 26, 27, which who knows what happens there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It's not like they're super well positioned to just do the, like, we'll get a max superstar in here in free agency, whoever that may be. This team... has earned the benefit of the doubt. This team transitioned from the LeBron thing to the next iteration. And then the Chris Bosh blood clot thing happens.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Then they go down this just purgatory of Dion waiters and James Johnson and Hassan Whiteside and justice Winslow. And like, Oh my God, we paid all these guys and justice with Tyler Johnson. Remember Tyler Johnson, Tyler Johnson's, you know, offer sheet. And again,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It looked like they were stuck in the mud and they dug their way out of it with smart draft picks and smart opportunistic where South Beach, where Miami, Jimmy Butler wants to come here and trades. They've earned the benefit of the doubt. Man, it's just, it's a slog for them. And I'm sure they'll try everything.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And I don't know what answers are realistic for them other than buy low on Durant in the last year of a $50 million contract.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Well, who knows? He could get traded by then. I would assume he picks it up. Did he score 30 points combined in the entire first round sweep? I don't know. Speaking of 30 point something.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I'm so glad you brought that up because it's... What? I mean, I don't even know what happened. Obviously, there's been this vague gambling probe hanging over him that has never led anywhere yet. This is... like for him to turn into a zero, like you have a first round. I liked that trade for them. He was averaging 20 plus points a game for the Charlotte Hornets. Now it's the Hornets.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And the Lakers kind of said, we're going to shade toward you, but we're not doubling you. We're going to make you
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Someone's got to score points, but he was like a good NBA player and just vanished completely. Like what a catastrophe.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
outthink us instead of making your choices easy for you and it kind of froze up the wolves like they he could get to the rim anytime he wanted and they kind of stopped doing that and then gobert would just just rise above like just like a freaking i don't even know what like you just with all these bodies in the paint and then one of them would just go whoosh and up he went and out went the lakers
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And then their defense, they have a track record at that point of making that trade. I'm like, oh, we get really far in the playoffs, even when you don't think we will.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Yeah, Jimmy got hurt. And then it all went south from there. Jimmy talked about how we're going to win game two and we're going to win the series. And if I had been there, this and that, Pat Riley told him to be quiet and blah, blah, blah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I don't see how that is possible, given what the market for him, when you talk about this. If there is a market, and we're not doing that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
We can make the Butler thing about a lot of things, right? Heat culture. Did they bend heat culture to accommodate him? You know, he was staying in different hotels now and then. Did different rules apply to him for whatever? Yeah, all that is fine and true. Let's just be simple about it. If they had paid him, everything would be fine. I believe everything else is just noise.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Oh, my role in the offense changed, this and that. It's all just window dressing to we didn't pay him. He got pissed. He wants his money. He went to the Warriors and got his money. He wanted to go to the Suns because he knew that he would get his money. If Pat Riley had just said, hey, look, I know you missed a lot of games. We've had a lot of success together.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Here's a two-year, three-year, whatever it is, extension. He'd be on the Heat right now. And the Heat would probably still be out, but he'd be on the Heat right now. And by the way, the Heat without him, obviously, they got rolled. Obviously, the way in which they got rolled was alarming. They just are so rudderless. They have no identity. They have lost...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
They have lost whatever made them the heat, the cutting, the toughness, the ball movement, the system around it. Only when Duncan Robinson starts flying around in Hero, they just don't have an identity anymore. And I don't know what they're going to do to fix it. Okay, enough heat. Any parting thoughts on the heat?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Yeah. Look, Bam, everybody knows I love Bam. He's a winner. He was not good enough in this series, 17 points a game, uh, 44% shooting, not good enough, not assertive enough. It wouldn't have mattered. And at some point everybody just let go of the rope and he's going to have series where he's not, he doesn't give them enough offensively. Um, It's also just... This is what Bam is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
He's not... Everyone has been... I mean, I remember being in Miami for the finals in 2023 and having debates on NBA Today about, well, Bam, they need him to score 25, 27, 28 a game. It's like, it's not going to happen. Like... You need to just, that's just what, not what he's going to be. And that's fine. Different players can do different things.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
He's never going to be a top 10 to 15 player for the most part, because of that, he's still awesome. And you just need to realize that. OK, let's do I don't love going deep on games that are happening the day a podcast come out. So let's do quick hitters on tonight's games, starting with Clippers Nuggets.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
One thing Michael Pina is looking for or thinking about as we go into the Clippers trying to save their season in game six at the wall.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
in uh in game five and and it was it was cool to see i love when he he plays like that i call them uh championship shots in my notes when he makes a long two uh on the pick and roll when yokich is on the bench like they're just they're tough shots they're the championship shots they're the shots that help the the nuggets win the championship they need enough of those shots to go in because god forbid yokich actually needs to rest for a few minutes
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Uh, the one thing I'm watching is broad and it's, it's interesting that we've arrived in the point of this series when after three games and even after four games, the Aaron Gordon dunk buzzer beater, it felt to most observers, including me, like the Clippers had been a better team in the series. Uh, and that a lot of the variable, it just like they could have been up three, one, um,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And now we've reached a point in Game 5 after a fairly easy Nuggets win that got a little dicey at the end, but then undicey. Where it's interesting that the Clippers are now the team that has made the most adjustments, and it's not close. The Clippers have...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Well, they can't. I mean, part of it is that they can't make any because they can only play so much. But even schematically, like the Clippers have... A, they're playing more lineups with Zoo as the only non-shooter. So they're leaning into their shooting more to stretch the Nuggets defense out. They even played a little stretch of game five with all shooters. No Zoo, no Simmons, no Jones, no Dunn.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Complete five out. Spread the floor for Kawhi and let him cook. And then they got... I don't know if they got nudged to this, but Ty Lue has now leaned into the, we're guarding Jokic with Harden or Kawhi, and we're putting Zubats on Aaron Gordon. And digest that. Now, knowing Ty Lue... he may go the other way to open game six and just say, you're prepping for that. We're not doing that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
We'll spring it later in the game. It felt like the nuggets overthought, uh, the entire process of countering that because there were just not enough possessions where they just, how about we just give the ball to Jokic with James Harden on him? Um, And we know why they're doing that. They're not the first team to do it. There was the infamous, like, Rui Hachimura has solved the Nuggets.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
After one stretch of one game, the Lakers lost Hachimura on Jokic.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Well, the Minnesota Timberwolves at least had one thing going for them. They were gargantuan across the board. The Clippers are not gargantuan. And we'll see if that – it's just interesting how we got to a place where the Clippers felt like the stronger, deeper, fresher team. And then you blink and they're down 3-2 and they're trying a lot of stuff.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And the Nuggets are just like, we're kind of just doing what we do and we don't have a lot of choices. Like, hey, Peyton Watson, can you give us six minutes, eight minutes? Nine minutes. Russ, can you just like hold the red? Russ made a ton of shots in game five. It just it's interesting. I'm interested to see where that goes. OK, I don't know who's going to win tonight. I pick Nuggets in seven.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So I don't even know how the hell they're up three to. I don't still don't really know what happened at the end of game four, but they won. So I don't know. I'll stick with Nuggets in seven. One thing you're watching for the Pistons-Knicks slugfest, combined score Knicks plus five after five games. Pistons very impressively stave off elimination in New York. One thing you're looking for tonight.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
You mentioned the Jalen Brunson, who is he guarding dilemma. Similarly, by the way, I should have mentioned with the Clippers. If you're taking Chris Dunn and Derrick Jones Jr. off the floor, the who is guarding Jamal Murray question becomes urgent for the Clippers. Sometimes it's Batum, sometimes it's Kawhi. That's something to watch. Jalen Brunson, it's a very interesting choice the Knicks face.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
In most of the core lineups that are going to be out there for the Pistons, excepting some Schroeder, because that's where you guard Schroeder or Beasley, it's a pretty stark choice in some lineups between Tim Hardaway Jr. and Asar Thompson. Where are we hiding Jalen Brunson? And there are pitfalls to both, and you can see them exposed if you watch carefully. Obviously, Tim Hardaway Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
is a shooter. If you're guarding Jalen Brunson on a shooter and you're hedging the Cade Cunningham, Tim Hardaway Jr. pick and rolls, you're putting yourself in rotation. Like Tim Hardaway Jr. is going to pop for three. There's going to be help there. It's going to be downstream effects from that. So put him on a Sar Thompson. That seems safer. A Sar Thompson kind of just sort of exists on offense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
The problem there is he hangs out near the rim a lot. And so your last line of defense is Jalen Brunson instead of Josh Hart. And the Pistons can make hay out of that. And if there's one thing I'm watching... And maybe it's boring to watch. Maybe it's the television show we know the outcome of already.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I don't think Kat's pick-and-roll defense has been good enough in this series, considering that the level of opposition is not like... This is not like an all-world offense. he got torn apart for stretches of both game four and game five. And the Pistons are making him think. They're hitting him with a screen ahead of the Cunningham during pick and roll.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So someone will knock him near the foul line and get him behind the play. Jalen Duren has been real cagey. It's a good Jalen Duren series. He's had his, I shouldn't say that because he's minus a lot, but he's had his ups and downs. But offensively, I think he's proven himself a pretty cagey passer screener.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And he's doing something where he's flipping the direction of the screen at the last second. And so it's like, I'm going to set a screen to Cade's right. Oh, no, it's to Cade's left. And Cat just can't keep up with it. He's lunging the wrong way every time. He's wildly out of position, which just Cade turns the corner. Other people have to step up because Jalen Duren is rolling open to the rim.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And that's how a Sar Thompson gets dunk, dunk, dunk. Just as an example, game five, Cat was minus 12 and Mitchell Robinson was plus nine. And I thought that was a game where those numbers actually reflected how they played. For the series, when Cade Cunningham and Duren run a pick and roll and Cat is defending Duren, 1.22 points per possessions for the Pistons.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
When Mitchell Robinson is the defender, 0.571 points for possession for the Pistons. So that's what I got my eye on because looming, if healthy, is the second most explosive offensive team in the NBA in the Celtics who get to lick their wounds and wait for whoever wins this series. And at this point, I picked Knicks in five. I thought they would have an easier time with Detroit than this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Detroit fans will very correctly point out. We could easily be going for the closeout tonight. If that call had been made on the Tim Hardaway three at the buzzer in game four, it wasn't, I don't know what's, this is a game. I got no feel, no feel for this one. Like absolutely no feel for what's going to happen. Other than it seems like it's going to be close and nasty.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And Tobias Harris is going to be yelling at people. I love this. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm very excited. This series has been fun and I'm very excited to watch it. Yeah. I had Nixon seven. Yeah. You're closer to right on that. If this ends Nixon six, that your prediction wins over my prediction.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I was actually going to ask you. Do you think Maxi Kleba knew that he played for the Lakers until he got into the game? I forgot. Do you think he was like, wait, me? I'm on the team? What's happening right now?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
There are rim runs. There are drives where they raise up in traffic, both of them. And they're like still going up and like changing, like moving the ball around in the air as, as defenders who jumped after them are going down. And it's like, they're, I almost like Pistons fans aren't going to like this. And I say it as a total joke. Can we get them on the same team at some point?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Or would they just overlap so much that it wouldn't work? I just want to see what it would be like to have two Thompsons playing together in the NBA. Obviously, they've been together before at the same time. But you mentioned making Brunson work. I'd like to see the Knicks make Cade work a little bit more on defense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Now, Cade's a decent defender who's big and strong, but they started going into some Ananobi Brunson two-man actions. I would just like to take the starch out of him a little bit.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
By the way, not everything can be a referendum on everything else, but if the Knicks ever lost this series or if they struggle to win it and then get destroyed in the next round, and you're mentioning how Cade is like pretty comfortable with McHale bridges. Wouldn't it be like an awesome combination of events for the Knicks to be, again, way behind the measuring sticks of the East?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
With Mikael Bridges having an up-and-down postseason, I think he's had a fine season. Like, I'm not going to... This sort of five first-round picks that's going to be an anvil over his head, that was a fairly unusual set of circumstances. And it overpaid, for sure, but it also fairly... Every trade is this discrete entity in terms of timing, identity of the players, all of that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
But the accommodation of him being just okay and the possibility, like, what if Minnesota gets farther than the Knicks? and Randall keeps playing like this, it's just going to be interesting to see how we get to the end of the next season and think about how do we actually feel about this core of players? How do they actually feel about this core of players?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And if it's not as awesome as we had hoped, Is there anything to be done about that? Because there's this fanciful idea that, well, Kat's contract is here because we can trade Kat for this player and that player and the guy in Milwaukee or whatever. Kat's contract is like a big thing. But again, they're up 3-2. I picked them to win the series. I think they will win the series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Six, seven, I don't know. But they'll be massive underdogs against the Celtics if they do win this series. And the Pistons would also be, obviously, massive underdogs. But interesting games tonight. Clippers Nuggets has lived up to it. It's been strange, but it's lived up to it. I'm hoping the Clippers win and we get a weekend game seven in that series. But we'll see what happens.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
One of the funniest... This is not Dan Wojcicki's fault at all. Don't read this the wrong way. One of the funniest little subplots of these kind of playoff series are when... Dan Wojcicki writes this great article for the LA Times about the Lakers' Banshee culture and how...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Michael Pina, any parting shots here?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I got basketball. People can't really see the amount of basketball stuff. I've got a jersey here, a jersey here, a thing here. But Oklahoma City fans, I don't know if you can see there. That's a Dort license plate right there. Oh, wow. After my lobbying that they should make novelty Dort license plates. They actually made one for me and he signed it. And that's in the background there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
So Oklahoma City fans, you win some, you lose some. The Thunder just sitting back and chilling right now, waiting for their next team. Michael Pina, thank you, sir. And we'll talk to you soon. Thank you, Zach. All right, thanks for listening.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Everyone will be back on Monday morning per usual on the Zach Lowe Show, looking ahead to the second round of the playoffs, digesting whatever happens over the weekend, big off-season questions, all the usual NBA chatter as the playoffs get deeper and deeper. The Zach Lowe Show, thanks for listening and tuning in.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Must be 21 and over and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com slash RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Visit GamblingHelplineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
jj reddick got jared vanderbilt and jordan goodwin and gabe vincent to play like a banshees and that was their mantra we're gonna fly around and be problems and it comes out and it's this glowing wonderful story and jordan goodwin's a great story i like jordan goodwin he's a good player and then it turns out like that day that comes out is the day jj plays the five-man guy the five-man lineup the entire second i was like
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
oh great these banshees none of them can play is maxi kleba available is he's not a banshee he wasn't in the story but we need to play him it's the same way like i love espn published essentially they like they're like we got to get ahead of this they published tim mcmahon's houston rockets obituary what basically yesterday which is like looking ahead to the offseason do the rockets need a star we got to get let's get this out ahead of game five and then the rockets roll in game five i love when then when stuff like that happens yeah maxi kleba laker legend unbelievable
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
We're after a very interesting Thursday night of NBA playoff basketball. We have a lot to discuss. LeBron James, is he going to retire? He's not sure. I don't know what's going to happen. We've got Thumbgate. We've reached the point of the Warriors-Rockets series where the Warriors, after whoop that trick game, the sequel, are complaining about the Rockets targeting Steph Curry's thumb.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I'll cop to it too. I picked Lakers in seven. I trusted their track record post Luca. I did not trust the Wolves to remain composed at key moments of the game. And I did not trust Julius Randle. And Julius Randle had a fantastic series on both ends of the floor. Minnesota really, you know, a lot of good defense is the absence of events happening, the absence of mistakes. So it's hard.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
It's hard to notice. And you get to the end of these games and you're like, man, I didn't really see like any of like Randall falling asleep off the ball and falling asleep off the ball and missing a box out. Like they really dialed in and Randall.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
Every time they needed a bucket last night when it felt like the offense was in the mud and things were going off the rails and they were hunting the wrong matchups. Reggie Miller called it out right away in the third quarter on the broadcast. Luka can barely move after the Steven Chenzo hard foul and his back injury, and they're not going at him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And Randall was the first one to go at him, and Randall settled them down immediately. Every time the offense seemed to be going off the rails, he would get a bucket. He was awesome. And it reminded me, this whole series reminded me of last year when I thought Phoenix was a problematic matchup for the Wolves. And the Wolves were like, how about we're just bigger, nastier, meaner, and tougher.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And we're just going to beat the hell out of them. Now, Phoenix rolled over and died in that series. The Lakers fought until the end. But an awesome, awesome win for Minnesota. And an awesome moment for Gobert, who... Again, it's a punching bag. We don't need to get into it. And when things go bad for him, they tend to go bad in the most spectacular way possible. The Luka shot last year.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
France essentially, his own nation, essentially benching him in the Olympics because it wasn't working. And when things go bad, they go bad. And this was a great night for him. If you were the Wolves, who would you rather play in the next round?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And there's a photo of a swollen thumb and all of it. A lot of whining going on in that series. The Lakers are out. What does that mean for their future? Luka Doncic extension, LeBron player option. He said he doesn't know. He's got to sit down with his family. We'll see what happens. Michael Pina, how are you? I'm good, Zach. How are you doing, man? I'm good. I'm good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
I disagree. I would rather play the Rockets. Look, again, we've reached the stage of the Western Conference playoffs where it's no picnic no matter who you play. I just... I just... The Rockets' offense is in a state of affairs where their two-way ceiling, to me, just isn't as high as what the Warriors can reach when the Warriors are rolling.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
The Warriors are smaller, less imposing, prone to a dud now and then, like they had last night in Game 5. I mean, Draymond said it after the game. They might as well have been playing whoop that trick. I was thinking about it the whole game. It's the same loss they had in Memphis three years ago, up 3-1 with Game 6 looming at home. Dangerous game to play. Dangerous game to play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
As to Clippers, Clippers Rockets, 2015. Dangerous game to play. Banking on that game six at home. But, you know, I just... I look at the Rockets and they're big and physical and defense first and an incredible rebounding team. And I look at the Wolves and they're big and physical and often defense first and a big rebounding team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 1 Winds Down: Lakers Eliminated, Game 6 Previews, and More With Michael Pina
And I just feel like the Wolves can neutralize enough of what makes Houston difficult to play against. and Houston cannot score enough to compensate for any marginal disruption of their strengths. So look, I think both would be a great series. If I'm Minnesota, I think I can beat both teams, but I think I would rather play the Rockets. Let's talk about Lakers.
The Zach Lowe Show
Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show!
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The Zach Lowe Show
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The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I want to say this on that front, like I, as an observer of the league, the NBA is a better place if Giannis Antetokounmpo is a Milwaukee Buck. If he is kind of carrying and propping up that franchise and making them a contender, the NBA is a more interesting place.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
If he loses his ability to do that because of everything we've described, the empty coffers in terms of draft picks, the depreciating roster around him that now is going to be years away from even being healthy, much less good enough to do anything with it. Like that's such a bummer that I like, we have to have these conversations.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
We have to talk about where Giannis could conceivably go, but losing the bucks as a, a landmark on the NBA map for, I want to also want to be very clear about this. Who knows how long, like this is a Giannis leaving, given all the draft picks out the door is an ice age level event.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
100%. I think we just focus grouped out every other permutation of winning it for your home city slash strength in numbers slash all of the playoff slogans to death. So you have to get weird. We are at that level of depravity where we have to do team puns in order to just make this thing work. So I salute Indiana for doing it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
They're fully stocked, you know, 21 grenade salute for the Memphis Grizzlies.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And now a really good look, we should say for Austin Reeves like that. That's a plausible heartbreaker, right? Just right there as it hangs in the air.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I want to start. You mentioned the Cavs as your team of the weekend. You also want to talk MVPs of the weekend. I think it has to be Ant for me. We both choose Ant. Ant is the MVP of the weekend. Basic ass answer. But like this was a jaw dropping performance in a game that was absolutely sick.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I also say it because I think when we tell the story of Anthony Edwards, at whatever point we want to step back and do that, I think we're going to talk about this game or more importantly, talk about this series, right? Like this was a moment. And I think all the great players have them for Ant. It was going toe to toe with maybe the greatest player of all time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
This other young superstar who bounced him out of the Western Conference finals last year and not only beating those guys, but doing it with a level of precision that you only get from a truly rare class of player. And so Ant won the game. He went up 3-1. It's an incredible accomplishment in those senses.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I just think he announced himself in whatever way that Anthony Edwards still needs to announce himself. And overall, I just remain absolutely gobsmacked by the fact that Anthony Edwards, four games into the series, six total turnovers in this series. I never thought I would see it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I think there were kind of two paths for him to get to this level of, as you said, getting off the ball, playmaking, making advance to reads in the biggest possible moments. One of the paths was becoming a Luka or LeBron level cross court weak side playmaker. One of the hardest things in basketball to do. Maybe he maybe he'll get there someday. Maybe he won't.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
The other path that I don't think we talked about enough was, will he get better at making the simple pressure release plays? And will the players around him be good enough to do things with those plays to justify it? And I think that's where you're seeing incredible Jaden McDaniels minutes, incredible Julius Randall minutes, incredible Dante DiVincenzo and crunch time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
You're getting all the contributions you need to justify that. the best player on the floor giving up the ball. And it feels right in the moment. It feels like the logical play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
His foot is there and Luka's foot runs into Jaden McDaniels' foot. Is that a trip? I guess yes, but also, I don't know. Is Jaden McDaniels not entitled to shuffle with his own space?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Yes. Especially at the point, as you're saying, when the players themselves are confused about what kind of contact is allowable, that's then there's a cost to the product, right? Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
any Edwards is there talking to the refs wondering why is my arm around this player's waist a foul, but I can full body chop block LeBron James like for five consecutive seconds and no one's going to blow a whistle. Like I think all anyone wants players, fans, coaches included. is just like a sense of internal logic within these games, right?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Like we've always heard every game is officiated differently. I would say at this point, it's just straight up every possession is officiated differently. Every player on the floor is officiated differently. There's no sense of consistency of, okay, on this night in Minneapolis, these are the terms of engagement. It's anything goes at any given time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And then you're just randomly going to get whistled for a foul or we're going to send the Zapruder level analysis film review to see, as you alluded to up top, despite the fact that Anthony Edwards is falling over, he does get hit across the wrist.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And therefore this one graze across the wrist, which in the grand scheme of the contact in this game is not rising to the level of many of the other non calls is going to be a monumental moment in this year's playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It's tough because Luka is a high order competitor like that is a motherfucker. And we've seen it in enough competitive circumstances to know. But if you are a motherfucker, can you not take this seriously on both sides? Can you not approach those sorts of possessions with the same kind of at least baseline fire?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
You don't have to go like full blazing Inferno intensity, like game winner over Rudy Gobert intensity. But can you at least have something like a little bit of life in you as you go through those? I I think this kind of feeds into the Lakers' defensive conversation a little bit, too. You mentioned Ant just being able to pick and choose which matchups he wants to attack.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I just thought the Lakers' switches were way too compliant. And you can see it on the other side. Luka wants, in particular, Nas Reed. He wants to go at Nas Reed, and that's been a pretty successful matchup for him in this series. It's part of the reason why the Wolves are doing this dance. Do we have Gobert on the floor here? Do we have Nas Reed on the floor here?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Gobert's actually held up better in those kind of one-on-one situations than Nas has. But you have Jaden McDaniels, who's fighting like hell to get Nas out of as many of those situations as possible.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I think what the Lakers are missing right now is enough of those other guys who are doing the scram switching, the stunting, like fighting through the screen to prevent the switch at the point of attack. And thus, Luka is sitting there. And sometimes he has himself in the crosshairs. And sometimes, as you said, he's just being really lazy on the help side. Both things are bad.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Both things, I would hope, are correctable. And we've seen historically both things are correctable. It's just only by game three or four when Luka decides to get embarrassed to a sufficient point where Jason Kidd choose him out. Or in this case, I guess JJ Redick will chew him out. We'll see what the Lakers version of Luka getting embarrassed looks like.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
But he's going to have a spotlight spotlight on him with this team in a completely different way. And maybe that facilitates that embarrassment a little bit.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Well, and they'll have one other swap, I believe, going into the swaps.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Like, you can go further. You can go farther. You can do more. Can I play four guys the entire half and just play four on five? I also think, too, the other problem with that, and yeah, you're right, there is a desperation element, right? Like, there's a reason no other coach does this, at least until there's no going back, right?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I think my gut reaction is kind of aligned with Dame's, which is after this injury happened, and he just sort of sat there with it. And, you know, is that resignation? Is that acceptance? I don't know what he's going through in that particular moment, but when a player like Damian Lillard goes down and kind of stays down, and particularly when he goes down grabbing the back of that ankle,
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Like, if you get deep enough in a series or deep enough in, of course, the NBA Finals, you do whatever you got to do. You play six guys if you have to. You play five guys if you have to.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
uh nobody does it earlier than that in part because it runs you down and so when you see the wolves have just owned the fourth quarter in this series overall and especially owned the fourth quarter in this game not an accident based on the amount of burn that these guys have and also not an accident considering the only way that the lakers get by defensively with the personnel that they have is by flying around making high effort high intensity plays all the time
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And they really have, I would say, five guys who can do that plus Luka. One of them is Jared Vanderbilt, who in this game did not seem super playable offensively for all of his limitations. And so you can't execute the system you want to run. And really the only one that is solvent for this version of the Lakers roster with Jackson Hayes out there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Honestly, even sometimes with Gabe Vinson out there. You have this impossible conundrum because the roster is not built to be a roster. It is built to be an Anthony Davis team that then became a Luka Doncic team that will have to be rectified in the offseason. But in the meantime, I would say my hope would be you can just steal a couple of minutes. It doesn't have to be a lot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
You can still run these guys incredible minutes in the second half. just get LeBron one minute of rest going into a TV timeout.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And his finishing in this series has been all-time atrocious.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I think it was to open the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
We all know what that means. We all know what he's reaching for. We all know what he is feeling in that moment in the sense that we have seen it before. I really hope, desperately hope that this is not it for Damian Lillard. But I want to be really clear that even if Damian Lillard comes back and plays NBA basketball again... this injury is going to define the end game of his career.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I think that, I mean, they clearly have to stave off some of the minutes concerns. They have to buy time somewhere. The turnovers, I think are an issue. There's also a weird thing with Luca too, where I don't know if, I don't know how you adjust out of this. Cause some of this is Luca's game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And some of it is his particular carelessness within this series where he's getting like picked at half court in a way that I've never seen Luca don't just get picked at half court before all credit to the walls for that. A couple of times. Of all the people he does not want to be embarrassed by, Rudy Gobert ripping you at half court.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It's not quite Buddy Hield and Steven Adams, but we're nearing into the territory of the dynamic. There's something with Luka where his mistakes, and he had an incredible shot-making game. He was kind of going toe-to-toe with Ant for a lot of this game in a way that I hope we get 10 more years of that as far as Western Conference basketball goes. But his mistakes really feed Wolves runs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And some of it, like he smoked a layup that all of a sudden became a 6-0 Wolves run. He missed a couple of gimmies. He gets picked at half court a couple of times. Those are monumental plays within the flow of this game. And so it's like, I don't, I don't know how you can't like take away all of Luca's mistakes, but there's something about the floor balance in those moments.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And this has been a Luca problem throughout his career a little bit where he gets deep into the paint and you know, he's not going to be the first one back on defense busting ass. Although I think he did try a desperation revenge chase down block at one point in this game that did not quite work out. He did.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
So he will do it on occasion, but ultimately him being behind the play after deep drives is tough, but that's what you have to do if you're not going to settle for jumpers every time against the switch heavy defense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Also, I think can only be combated if you get guys more rest. Like you saw by the end of this game, Austin Reeves is running on fumes, trying to box out Rudy Gobert and getting elbowed in the face. Like you have to get these guys a little bit of time if you want them to be competitive on the boards.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Can I offer one more Chris Finch flower to the bouquet that you already gave him? Him saving that challenge for that moment at the end of this game literally saved it. And in stark contrast, I want to say JB Bickerstaff's a very good coach. I have a lot of respect for the work he's done with the Pistons this season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I'm going to hand JB Bickerstaff and every coach in the NBA a very handy flow chart, which is, is the play you're about to challenge, will it result in actual points? If yes, you can challenge it. If no, is it late in the game enough that possession alone might swing the result of the game? If yes, challenge. If no, do not challenge it. Like just do not do it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Like, we are rounding a bend of a kind, whether he plays another game or not. And that in itself sucks to say, and it sucks for Dame, obviously. It sucks for Bucs fans who have invested in this team and for this version of the Bucs, and certainly for the future of the Bucs, as you alluded to. We can talk about that. But ultimately, like, I am a regular season basketball enthusiast.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I don't care what, I don't care how confident Cade Cunningham is. You cannot challenge that play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Let's go to the challenge. Let's get our daughter in here. I think the Hawkeye view is going to vindicate you on that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And if yes, for sure, use it. Let me ask you this, Zach. Are you 100% certain of literally anything in your life?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I have an incredible soft spot in my heart for the players who never quite make it to the mountaintop, but play the game on their terms with a distinct style. And if this is it for Dame, or more or less it for Dame, and we can save the full eulogizing for another day, but if this is kind of it,
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I did find something. I don't think I had a appropriate appreciation of the Kawhi Leonard double. That's number one on my list. I think it's like you see it. I know he gets there. And so every time I'm rewatching it, I'm watching everything else because I know Kawhi is going to get to Jokic, but not enough to deflect the ball or ultimately to block the shot. That said, you watch him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It is perfectly executed. Like, I mean, textbook, the second that Jokic starts to turn and has even anything resembling a blind eye to Kawhi, he's gone. And Bogie, of course, this is like all scripted. Bogie is rotating up. Everything kind of tracks as far as what the Clippers are trying to do in that moment.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
The difference is like Kawhi in pursuit is such a terrifying thing that even though I know he doesn't get there, my brain is making me think, But might he get there this time? This time I watch it, is he going to actually sneak up on Jokic and get this?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Because he has... It's not just a look in his eye, but a change in his body language, Kawhi's body language, when he knows he can take a play over. And he kind of has that in that moment. And frankly, I wonder if the reason Jokic airs that Sambor shuffle so badly... is he might see Kawhi at the very end of it and rush it a little bit. I would.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Get out of the arena, frankly, if you see him coming after you. But he's already got to get it over Zoo. And now he's got to beat Kawhi on the timing. And so he can't cock it back as much to even release it. I kind of wonder if the reason he misses it so badly is because of Kawhi. And it's only because he misses it exactly that badly that Aaron Gordon can catch it because it doesn't even clip rip.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
There are worse ways to make a career than being an ice cold killer for more than a decade and a beloved star who staked his claim to a franchise, who made an incredible run for himself, who will go down as one of the greatest shooters to ever live and just one of the coolest guards and coolest players of his era. I fucking love watching Damian Lillard play basketball.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I mean, straight up in the muck, wrestling balls away from people. That's right.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I picked Nuggets in seven. I mean, we could be headed there, certainly. I think my only apprehension about us getting to Nuggets in seven is it feels like a series where the Clippers have options and the Nuggets do not have options.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Their options, to the extent that they have them, Denver, is, okay, we can change how we execute against some of these kind of junked-up defenses that have been giving us trouble. And you have the best player in the world to do that, in theory, in Nikola Jokic.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
That hasn't exactly helped so far, and I'm wondering if maybe over time they'll just have a level of familiarity with those sorts of zones that will help them penetrate them. But as far as rotation decisions go, no one is going to play any more or less pending whatever's going on with Russell Westbrook's foot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
You're not going to be able to scale up the Jalen Pickett minutes in a meaningful way that's going to change your rotation. Versus the Clippers, they actually do have some choices to make. And I think in particular, they're going to have a bit of a Chris Dunn choice to make as the series continues to develop. His offense is starting to become a real problem. They can flex him out if they have to.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I don't think they want to for obvious reasons. Chris Dunn is a hellacious defender. Even if he is mismatched in size at some points in the series with the switches that they're executing, he's still really valuable to have on the floor for that purpose. But
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Just the simple fact that Ty Lue can look down his bench and say, OK, we're going to try Derek Jones instead and just see if his three is going tonight. We're going to try Nick Batum instead, who is just such a steady hand in these sorts of moments. We're going to go to bogey in this moment. Bogdan Bogdanovich had easily the game of his playoff life coming off of game four.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
So from that perspective alone, I am bummed personally to not get to do that for at least the foreseeable future.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Completely. And so, yeah, I think that's why at this point, I feel the tilt toward the Clippers. Like, in terms of what should happen, the Clippers should have more to play with that would let them get through the back part of the series. The Nuggets have Nikola Jokic on their team. And And I don't want to give short shrift to Aaron Gordon or Christian Brown. I thought it was really good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Michael Porter Jr. is out there with one arm having a really good and really important game. All that stuff matters.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It really, to me, feels like a team that has one defining option, which is Jokic increasing his aggression and finding a way in the way that we saw in game four, being a little less choosy on his shots, being willing to take more versus a team that has like some strategic levers to pull in a way that David Adelman is just like does not have that luxury at this point.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I don't get that. I don't understand why when you have a giant playmaker who can see over the top of the defense, why it would be so stifling to run up against the zone, other than to say, like, Boki was playing the top of that zone.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I thought that he and the Clippers were super aggressive in challenging and denying the ball in the first place to prevent Jokic from even getting set up at the elbow, more or less, so he can sort of read the floor. And that pressure goes a long way. And I think by that point in the game, the Nuggets were so exhausted from 44
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
minutes of competitive basketball that, you know, they're, they're going, they're walking into some stuff, right? Like they're, they're a little too casual getting into some of the offense against the zone. They've had this big, I think it was a 22 point lead at one point that they're kind of just trying to coast out to a win rather than to punch through.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I mean, this was a very, very, very narrowly avoided implosion. And we would obviously be talking about the results so differently if not for an Aaron Gordon fingertip overall in terms of the impact on the series and what it means about the Nuggets and all these things. But like...
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I don't want to gloss over the fact that Denver tried every way it could to give this game away and just barely could not do it, but really, really tried.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I mean, that's like coaching malpractice to me. The eternal question. But with the Jokic Murray stuff, I think a lot of it is that zone, right? It's like pick and roll against zone is a little bit more of a complicated endeavor. And certainly when you're denying the ball as aggressively as the Clippers are. But they need those Aaron Gordon possessions on the on like the periphery of this game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
They need those Christian Brown possessions. I thought to the extent that Denver's other modifications, other than what they were doing defensively against Chris Dunn, really paid off. One of them was Aaron Gordon busting ass down the court and sealing with deep position against whoever he can get his ass on effectively. Cross matches.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
those cross matches were huge drew some fouls got some free points both for him and for other people like that is stuff that they can pull out and that they'll have to but like most of the Nuggets adjustments ultimately I think are read this better or run this harder and they just don't have a lot of flexibility beyond those things yeah I don't again I picked Nuggets in seven
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
No, let's, let's keep it moving.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Josh Hart seemed to tip that it was a foul.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Let me make a slight counterpoint to that. I think coming out of this game, which, as you said, was flawed. Certainly, there are a lot of Knicks runs that are like, how are you guys letting this fritter away after you've had the dominant stretches, in particular defensively, that you had in the first half? All that I take in stride, I take into account.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I came out of this game feeling like this Knicks performance was closer to anything we saw during last year's run. than anything I've seen from this Knicks team before. There's been something kind of missing with them. And again, this was far from a perfect game, but I thought they tapped back into some of the greater than the sum of their parts magic that made last year's team really special.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And some of it was the emotion and the energy in the building for this game was just off the charts from the start for both teams, for Little Caesars Arena. It seemed like an amazing vibe. I would have loved to see this game in person. Uh, but I thought they were flying around and some of this might be like the Josh Hart element of this in particular, where he had such a good energetic game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And that is kind of one of the defining characters of last year's run in particular. And so if you take, okay, this energy is working. Yeah. OG and, and, uh, McHale bridges can't hit anything, especially around the rim. Like their inability to finish has started to become a huge problem, but defensively, I thought they were giving exactly what I want them to give.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Jalen Brunson and cat have this incredible closing push. Just, The kind of kick that even someone like Cade Cunningham and even a team like the Pistons are not capable of. Are we getting somewhere with the collective value of all of these things? That would be my only hope coming out of this game, despite how messy it was.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Completely. Again, because the solution is so simple and because their games do interlock, this isn't a Damian Lillard-Yannis situation where they don't have the chemistry. They've got it. Like, they've got the juice. Brunson and Kat together. Their games interlock in a really successful and really easily accessible way. All you have to do is run it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And the Toby part of this, I want to zero in on specifically because, yeah, Durin, an understandable target. I get why the Pistons are trying to keep him out of that. Minus four.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Some of it. I mean, he's been able to claw back some points on the glass in particular in a way that helps, but defensively, this is just not a good matchup for him is a really tough spot to put a player of his inexperience and his youth, to be honest, like still such a young player to throw into this particular fire. Like, This is a lot for him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And he's out there impacting the game how he can, sometimes more effectively than others, largely not a factor in the defense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I have a lot of hope for Jalen Duren. I do not have a lot of hope for his ability to defend in this series because it just has not really been there. But even putting him aside, I'm really glad you brought up the Tobias Harris element, which Cat versus Tobias Harris is the matchup I did not know I needed, but I've been very much enjoying. They're jawing and going back and forth.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It's become a battle of real consequence within the complexion of this series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I think it is something about Detroit. I think it is something about his role as an elder statesman for the team and setting an example that way versus being, oh, Tobias, go stand in the corner because we don't really value what you do, which, fair enough. I think he means something to a competitive playoff team that he cannot to a high-order contending team, and that's fine.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
The way it manifests is him being... I think overall, one of the most important Pistons on the floor, full stop. And him getting in foul trouble was a huge swing point in this game as well. But you can run pick and roll at Tobias Harris. He is still just mere mortal Tobias Harris. And you are Jalen Brunson.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Somehow not. I like I I am also mystified by the lack of one five pick and roll. I just think it's right there for the taking anytime they want to do it. What Tibbs has told us historically is he will not take the fruit that you want him to take, despite how low it hangs. Like he is going to do his thing and that thing is going to work or it's not.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
But there's not going to be a lot of futz or adjustment about.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It's ripe. Pick it right off the tree. Can I wonder one thing about, just to play devil's advocate on the pick and roll front, I wonder if part of it, it's one thing if you're going to have Cat pop exclusively and be, I mean, he's one of the best shooters, one of the best big man shooters ever. Can we do that? That sounds great.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
As far as Cat as role man or Cat as driver, this was already a game where Cat's battling foul trouble. And I want to give him immense credit for tackling his own personal white whale, which is picked up that fourth foul super early, played basically a full rotation shift after that foul without picking up the fifth. I mean, straight up, that is the reason the Knicks win this game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It's like his ability to stay on the floor is probably the reason why the Knicks win. I wonder if part of the reason they don't want Cat rumbling through a role or even picking up a moving screen, which he will and can do on many occasions. Like, are they just trying to keep the fouls off of Cat as much as possible? And maybe that's giving Tibbs and the Knicks too much credit.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
He should play in this series. Like, I really don't see why not. I mean, like, at the point where Cade Cunningham has to shove Ron Holland to prevent him from fighting with literally anyone in this vicinity. That was great. Are we really so opposed to playing Simone Fontecchio in this moment?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I would say in particular because guys like Mikhail and OG are already not a factor on anything inside the three-point arc right now. They really struggled with overall the length of what Detroit is putting out there. And Simone Fontecchio, for all his imitations, that dude has that kind of length. Plus, when he makes threes, everybody on the bench does this. I know.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
You're just, again, low-hanging fruit that's right there for both teams to take. On one hand, 1-5 pick and roll. On the other hand, great Italian celebrations.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
OK, not good enough. Like, I mean, I think I think it presents the same problems going forward that we all would have expected. And this is, you know, when you get into the issue of, OK, well, they're going to run into the Celtics. Like, what what is it that is going to happen here? Like, what is it that they would be able to do?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Kat and Brunson being such pressure points defensively is such a problem. And it's such like a glaring neon sign that I worry about. I think he's been OK, but and also it's hard to defend when you're in foul trouble. And that's when you give up dunks. That's when you give up some like high impact plays because you can't afford to impact them.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
So as much as anything, I think it relies on him not picking up those cheap fouls, as does every element of his game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
He does have the veteran dark arts, though. Corey Joseph knows his way around. He knows what he's doing down there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It's a roadmap for a team that is not coached by Tom Thibodeau. Like I think, I think that's straight up. And like, That's not to say he's a bad coach, but he's a coach who wants to defend, wants his team to defend in a very specific way. And that way is not necessarily switch and contain all the time, 100% as a fact of life.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I mean, he's the kind of player who makes that sort of basketball. And really, those sorts of teams that you're talking about mean something. There are lots of teams, frankly, even those who have gone on conference finals runs, who just get lost in time, who get lost even within the cities that they play for, maybe because those cities have outsized championship-level success.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I also think there's the issue where Orlando has laid out this blueprint, but how many teams really have the size to execute it? Because it's not just, can you stand up one through five defensively? It's, this is one of the biggest, most physical lineups in the league. And you've seen the psychological effects. Al Horford is mad about it. Al Horford. This is what I'm talking about.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Al Horford is pissed. Jalen Brown, I think it's clearly like a little rattled and also got a little unbalanced in his game at times in a way that really benefited Orlando. Chris Hapsworth Zingas was clearly bothered by like all of these guys. And that's to say nothing about, you know, Jason Tatum's wrist injury or like all the banging that happens in a series like this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
What teams can execute that? I think there are elements of the Knicks roster that can do that. Cat can do it, but can he do it without fouling? Jalen Brunson is a physical guard, at least in terms of the way he creates space on offense, but not necessarily in that way defensively.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
As soon as you give Paolo and Franz any kind of space whatsoever, those dudes are going to cook. And frankly, they already are cooking in close quarters. It's just they have to dig a lot more out of the mud. But I want to really salute Wendell Carter, though, because I thought he had a really nice vindication series after he had a really tough time against the Cavs in last year's playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Him hitting some threes, which is an important part of his skill set, but also standing up defensively in that way. There have been points over the last two years where it wasn't clear if Gogo Batadze was just going to take his job, if Mo Wagner was just going to take his job.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And so some of the other years feel like also-rans. I... I'm going to remember Damian Lillard forever as a basketball player. And I'm going to remember some of those Blazers teams forever. And certainly the people of Portland will in particular, like his relationship with that city and with that franchise. He's basically synonymous. He's going to go down as the greatest Blazer ever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Just flowing locks. just perms for days potentially going on in Orlando. But I thought Wendell played a really nice series. And you see that throughout their lineup. It's just a team that right now is not positioned for offensive success. And we all know what the needs are. They're kind of right there front and center. And we'll see if the magic go out and get them.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Yeah. And Franz too. I think Franz's ability to drive and create and convert those like weird kind of hookshot kind of runners. Like they, they carve out a lot of points from possessions that feel like they're going nowhere. And it happens because Paolo and Franz are the size that they are. And for that size are some of the most skilled players in the world.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
As far as like guys who are 6'10 with a handle, that's a very short list to begin with. And you're adding in legitimate ability to finish through contact, legitimate ability to pull up and convert jumpers in Paolo's case. Although maybe he errors a little bit, sometimes too much in terms of the pulling up versus going all the way through. That's what happens when you don't have spacing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Like guys are going to settle for some things that are tough shots, but give them any runway. And I feel really confident in what the ultimate core of this magic team can be.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
It's a shame that he's not going to go down as a great buck particularly. But that's the reality of where he was at this stage of his career. And as you said, the fact that it was not the destination he picked, but it's one that he tried to make the best of basketball-wise. I... For me, that was one of those trades that I would make it again, for the record, if I'm in Milwaukee's position.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And that's as he guards, oftentimes Tatum or Brown. I think ultimately the two-way ability of Franz combined with, as you said, Paolo is not an all-defense level contributor, but he is big and he is mobile and he can muck things up.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And he is as much a part of how, if you are going to play this one-on-one contained style of defense against Boston, where are you shrinking the floor and where are you coming up for rebounds in that kind of alignment? And he's a part of both of those things.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Unbelievable job by the magic. Especially if you're the bigger team. Especially if you're the one bullying these guys around. Like, give yourself a chance to get a fingertip on that ball and poke it away when they need everything to go right in order to just get a shot off.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Well, just to hit it, because we kind of zoomed past that top, you mentioned the Cavs were your team of the weekend. To me, it's the Warriors. And I think Steph could have been the MVP of the weekend easily. But Steph would be as deserving as anybody. He was sensational. I wanted to pick Golden State instead as my team of the weekend because of what we saw from the fourth quarter in particular.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I understand the logic of it. I understand their urgency in trying to find that kind of offensive help. Maybe you settle Drew Holiday to another destination that is not going to be Portland so that he doesn't end up in Boston. Maybe that's the great do-over part of that trade. But pairing a shooter with the firepower of Damian Lillard with Giannis, I will always understand the logic of that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Without Jimmy Butler, playing off of Steph was just classic Warriors stuff. And everything starts with Curry, as it always does, and has for the better part of a decade, basically. But their closing kick was all about the synergy that makes that team go. And the highest scoring player in that fourth quarter was Gary Payton II. That's Warriors basketball in a nutshell.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
That does not happen by accident. It happens because you have Draymond connecting dots. It happens because Brandon Pajemski, who I will say has had quite a journey to get to this level of trust and respect from Steve Kerr. Buddy Heald punishing teams from the weak side. This is strength in numbers, kumbaya basketball. when the Warriors really, really need it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And for some reason, Houston always seems to bring this out of them. But I just, even after all these years, it's such a sight to behold. And I love the fact that even though the roster turns over and refreshes, they just are finding guys who can play that way. Jonathan Kuminga is not one of those guys.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And I don't know whether I expect him to start again, given the way he just kind of got ejected from this game over the course of it. But I know you are somewhat of a believer in the Jonathan Kuminga experience.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I'm sorry. I don't mean to bring up sensitive points. Can't win them all.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I mean, the Jalen Green roller coaster is what it is. The Kaminga part of this, I think he's just kind of getting replaced in the rotation. But you mentioned earlier, Golden State needs to get out of this series quickly. And I think I agree with that. Just the physicality of the Rockets, the athleticism of the Rockets. And beyond that, you look at what almost happened to Jalen Brunson.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
what did happen to Damian Lillard, what almost happened to Anthony Edwards. And you're like, one guy lands on Steph's leg wrong. And it doesn't matter if Jimmy Butler comes back at that point. And so you got to take care of business. And I think the great luxury of winning this last game was now all of a sudden they are in such great position to do it, whether Jimmy plays or not.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Yeah. I thought they played it a little less in game three as well.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
even though on the court, as you said, they never quite found it. They got better over time, and I think maybe got better in a way where they never fully got the credit for it. It was kind of incremental, slow-building progress for them in terms of their pick-and-roll chemistry.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I mean, this game in itself was reliant on getting great quit-and-post defensive minutes on some of these lineups, getting papered together for Golden State in a way that historically over the course of the season, they just have not. Like, Buddy Heald's stints have not always gone this well, but sometimes they do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And when they do, I think ultimately they have enough to draft off of Steph's influence and the chaos he creates to get some stuff going. I honestly, if it does go this way for Houston... I would encourage them to go that aggressive route. And I say that as like, I'm generally a wait and see with young talent kind of guy. Like I want to see young teams come to fruition.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I want to see them grow with and around each other and see how their skill sets can kind of manifest. I just don't see within this Houston roster a source of like really organic shot creation growth. Some guys will get better at creating plays for others. Ahmed Thompson is never going to be a go-to one-shot killer. I don't think. I mean, who knows? That guy's capable of incredible things.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I want to put that as an extreme improbability. And I say that as someone who loves every other part of his game. And Jalen Green is so up and down that I don't think he's ever going to regularize in a way that's going to be that for you. And so then you're left with... Albert and Shangoon doing what he can against the advent, like the matchups that are advantageous for him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
A lot of Fred Van Vliet desperation shots to say nothing of the fact that he's already at an age where you're not expecting him to make any dramatic changes to his game. And so where is like, where's it going to come from? Are you going to throw Cam Whitmore into the rotation, expect him to save your franchise.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
They did find something that worked, just not something that worked at a high enough level to really contend in the East.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
You are going to have to make a move for the sort of shot creator that all of these other teams have. It doesn't have to be Steph Curry. Detroit has Kate Cunningham, and that's getting them through these games in a really competitive way. There's lots of ways to do it. I'm glad you brought up Kate. I love Kate.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I was hoping this first round would have some, at least in the West would have some real stuff and it's had it. It's just, can it hold onto it? Right? Like can, can the Lakers manage to put enough together to make that an actual series after going down three, one, can the rockets, you know, grind the warriors to enough of a halt, right? to have their worst instincts come to bear.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
As you mentioned, Gold State is not opposed to shooting itself in the foot. These guys will throw the ball around. They will commit enough turnovers to lose if you push them to do so. You just got to give them a little more of a nudge than they've been able to do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Thanks so much for having me, Zach.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
And from that perspective, it's just impossible to begrudge him basically whatever he wants, right? He has been with this team now for going on a decade. I think he has the right to make that call, to look around and say, I'm one of the best players in the world, even still maybe the third best player in the league, if not better than that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Anyway, sorry. but everything that went into that championship, as you alluded to is mostly gone at this point, the city of Milwaukee is obviously there, but most of his teammates are gone. His coach from that team is gone. Yes. We got Brooke Lopez over here. We got whatever is left of Pat Connaughton over there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Like there's some, some remnants, but it's telling that, like you said, the, the, the Chris Middleton trade for me. And granted, I don't want to be Chris Middleton guy on yet another podcast, but I will because I am Chris Middleton guy on every podcast. Uh, There was something particularly soulless about trading him for Kyle Kuzma.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
This is a really important player to the history of your franchise. And you are so desperate under these circumstances that you're going to grasp at... Washington Wizards Kyle Kuzma to say, maybe this is the kind of thing that could shake something loose in our rotation. Maybe this will let us play Giannis at the five. Whatever your rationale might be. I get it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
I get the desperation in that moment, but it speaks to where you are and how far you've come. That it's like, okay, I guess we just have to eject Giannis even a very injured, maybe will never be healthy, fully healthy again at a contending level.
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Chris Middleton probably will not for the sake of chasing something that just is not there because you're trading Giannis is basically best teammate after Dame, who now is going to be out for the foreseeable future for Kyle Kuzma. The next best guy on the team after that, who would you even say is the next best buck?
The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Drama! NBA First-Round Action Heats Up With Rob Mahoney.
Because as you mentioned, Brooke Lopez can get played off the floor in a series like this. Also, by the way, is 37 years old. Is it Gary Trent Jr.? Legitimately, who is the next best buck? Could be him. Could be Bobby Portis.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
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The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I do like when there's part of me, even though I try to be a thoughtful analyst, I do like sometimes when conventional wisdom just flies off the screen and is proven wildly true. Like Detroit. We're not going to talk about Pistons-Knicks much because that resumes tonight. And so there's just not enough time between the games. We'll talk about it more later this week.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Detroit just like melting down into a puddle of nothingness in the fourth quarter on the biggest stage in basketball at MSG, throwing the ball all over the place, missing just wide open shots, wide open layups at the rim. And it wasn't only just the young guys. Tim Hardaway Jr. missed a bunch of shots and just they just melted down into just a disaster.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And the Knicks came back, scored 40 points in the fourth quarter and won that game. You were at that game.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Russell Westbrook had enough wildness in both directions and just like you could not even script anything. A better Russ giveth, Russ taketh away, Russ threw the ball off James Harden's ass at the last possession of regulation for some reason and then made up for it with offensive rebounds. I don't know what's going on. Just a crazy weekend.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Yeah, I don't I don't want to belabor this one with it resuming so soon. Kat was on my list of MVP candidates, which it's not a stat line that jumps off 23, 11 and five for steals. Like maybe it is line 10 or 14 only got off three threes, made one.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
in part because the Pistons scrapped everything they did against the Knicks in the regular season and put Jalen Duren on Josh Hart and put a wing on Cat to try to snuff out his three-point game. And I thought he made all the right adjustments. When the Pistons' centers were on him, they spammed Jalen Brunson, campaign, oh my God, campaign, and Cat picking pops and stuff and exploited the centers.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And when they had Tobias Harris on him or other forward-type players, He played his bully ball. He got in the post. He made some tough shots. And the Knicks remembered late in the game, hey, just because you have a wing or a fast power forward on you doesn't mean we can't run the Brunson cat pick and roll. How about Brunson runs a little free screen to get Malik Beasley on him?
The Zach Lowe Show
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And then we have Beasley and Tobias Harris defending this action. If you switch... You're in big trouble because Malik Beasley's on Cat, and they exploited that. Cat had a little roll to the basket drop-off to Josh Hart during the crazy 21-0 run in the fourth quarter. I just thought Cat played it nice, calm, defensively, and I don't love it.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
It'd be interesting to see if the Knicks experiment with putting him on a Sar Thompson or Ron Holland if Ron Holland gets in the game again. But I thought Cat was good. You want to hear some other MVP candidates?
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Sunday was a chalk, chalk, chalk, boring day until Warriors Rockets. We have the Lakers pummeled in game one. Lots of stuff to talk about. And it is time. To say the three most anticipated words in niche basketball podcasting, as we will do every other Monday at the very least. What up, Beck?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
We'll get to him. And I'm trying to be it's Monday morning. I'm not I'm on very little sleep. I'm trying to be a little positive to get through this. OK, I'm going to go to the positives first. Let's go. Other MVP candidates. The Jaden McDaniels Nas Reed combo for the Minnesota Timberwolves who just picked apart the Lakers who looked old and slow. We'll talk about that one more later.
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Darius Garland, I just thought, played an absolutely gorgeous game for the Cavs. Ty Jerome, both tied. First of all, Ty Jerome, just go off like Ty, Ty Jerome. He's not going to win six man of the year. Cause I don't think he played enough minutes. He is one of the finalists. He did not make my fake ballot just because of minutes issues. I just I can't.
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He is so fun to watch because he legitimately goes out there and he's like, I'm the best player on the floor. I don't like who like Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Evan Mobley are going to make an all NBA team. I don't care. I'm tight. I'm tight. Jerome, do you know who I am? I went to the University of Virginia. I'm a national champion. I'm Ty Jerome.
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Took over the game, tore apart the heat zone, both Garland and Jerome. Wherever Tyler Hero was, they found Tyler Hero, put him in a pick and roll, and just got whatever they wanted. I thought Garland, just great shot making, beautiful shot making. Giannis, just because no one else came along for the ride in the Pacers blowout. Andrew Nembhard, big ups to him.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Derek White, fantastic game for the Celtics. Paolo Bancaro, one-man band, took everything Boston gave him in terms of jumpers and mismatches and made them all. No one else came along with him. But I think even though they play late tonight, I think we have to talk about Jokic to get a little bit into Denver Clippers because that was the game of the weekend. Jokic would be on my list.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Not a spectacular game by Jokic standards. A game I thought the Nuggets were pretty fortunate to win considering Michael Porter Jr. just didn't do anything and got benched for Russell Westbrook and sometimes Peyton Watson. And I don't think the Nuggets can win four times in this series without Michael Porter Jr. having a couple of big games. But they battled back.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And here's the stat for you that I just want to highlight this ahead of game two. Murray Jokic, 35 pick and rolls. That's number one in any game this season for the Nuggets, according to Second Spectrum. Number two is 29. So obviously went to overtime and they played a lot of minutes, but six more pick and rolls than they ran in any game this season.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
1.3 points per possession when one of them shot out of the pick and roll or one pass away. 1.4 points per possession when you zoom out for the whole possession. And I thought that was the... We're a little frazzled. The Clippers are big on the wing and switchy. And Zoo plays Joker in the post as well as anyone. I think Joker's going to get into a rhythm, though, in the post.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He got into a little bit of rhythm when they left Zoo on an island, which they will do. And I think as the series goes, he's going to figure out some answers. And I'm actually curious because of how dominant the Murray-Jokic two-man game was.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Will the Clippers ever experiment with the old Rudy Gobert tactic of trying to put Zoo on Aaron Gordon to get him out of the pick and roll and put like whoever, Kawhi? I don't even know. They're too small probably to do it on Jokic. But their de facto defense on that play was very often start out in a drop and then depending how the Nuggets attack,
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
kind of a late switch, like a veer back switch where all of a sudden a guard is on Jokic and a big Zubats is on Murray. And they just sort of picked that apart over and over again. Murray hit a three when he was dancing with Zubats.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He hit Christian Brown on a backdoor cut when he was dancing with Zubats on a switch and James Harden, who was ball watching a lot in game one and got smoked on the offensive glass because of it was ball watching again. Jokic, they gave him the ball at the nail against Chris Dunn and other assorted undersized Clippers. And he just went to work and found Aaron Gordon on threes and this and that.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And that's when the Nuggets, the Clippers rather at the end of the game decided, forget all that. We're just trapping. We're trapping Jamal Murray. We're trapping him when he crosses the F court. We're going to force the ball to all these guys who can't shoot. But I just thought it was a very like calm down, calm,
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Jokic may not put up all the numbers out of this pick and roll, but we're going to go back to the bread and butter that won us the championship. And we're going to try to steal this game. And I really thought the Clippers have to be kicking themselves for that game because that was there for them. The Harden Zubats pick and roll was picking the Nuggets apart for the first half of the game.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Kawhi was nine of 15. I thought the Clippers is interesting because they were getting hammered, including by Bob Myers. for not running enough Harden Zubats pick and roll. I looked up the numbers. They ran it 24 times, so compared to 35 for Murray Jokic. That's actually the second most they ran it in any game this season, according to Second Spectrum. 1.4 points. Here's the interesting part.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
1.375 points per possession when... That pick and roll produced a shot directly out of it. Either one of them shoots or one pass away. Zoom out to the whole possession. That dropped to 1.18. That's a big drop. It's still a good number, but it's a big drop. And I think it shows you...
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
that when the Nuggets could force more than one pass, when it's like you have to pass to Chris Dunn over here or Chris Dunn's in the dunker spot and Jokic sprints from Zubats to him, the finishing is just so-so for the Clippers role players. And if you can force that, that's a win for the Nuggets. But I just thought I wanted to just highlight the Murray-Jokic pick and roll. That was obviously...
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
The game of the weekend. I screamed, Howard. I screamed to nobody in my office when up by one with a three second difference between the game and the shot clock in overtime. Russell Westbrook was just like, you know what? I'm going for it. I'm taking the lead. They're not fouling me. I can probably run the clock almost all the way down or force them to foul me later.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I'm going for the layup over James Harden. James Harden made a great defensive play. I'm like, oh my God, what is Russ doing? And then Aaron Gordon gets an offensive rebound, makes free throws, and then Russ steals or deflects the inbounds pass and it's over. Unbelievable game. I lost my mind like five times during that game.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the numerous resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 or over and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. All right. It's the playoffs coming up on the Zach Lowe show.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
It's one of the reasons that Porter is going to be a wild card in this series because Porter's got no chance of keeping Harden in front of him. He's got a better chance of keeping Kawhi in front of him because Kawhi doesn't operate with just sort of like straight up speed. But the Clippers are interesting because...
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
As much as people wanted them to spam even more of that pick and roll, I thought the Nuggets got a handle on it a little bit as the game went on. They sort of settled into, they tried a bunch of different defenses with Jokic up to the level of the screen, Jokic dropping back. They were all just torn apart.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Then they started late in the game having Jokic drop back and pulling in help defenders more aggressively off the non-shooters like Dunn and Derek Jones Jr. That worked pretty well. well enough, but the Clippers are interesting because they have that element.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
You don't want to shove Kawhi too far to the side, especially since Kawhi can also probably pick out his matchup if he wants to and go at Jamal Murray in the post or whoever. And then I thought they left a little bit of money on the table. Not that you want to tilt your offense too much toward Norm Powell, but Norm Powell has Jamal Murray on him to start games. He's got Michael Porter Jr.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
on him at times. I thought they could have ran him off pin downs and some other stuff for handoffs and just high flying Norm Powell. Just get the ball straight line finish. And and they kind of. But but it's a challenge to get all those elements in alignment. Did any of my other most valuable player choices stick out to you? I mean, look. There are three drawing dead series in the first round.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Orlando, Boston, dead. Miami, Cleveland, dead. And Memphis, Oklahoma City, dead. I mean, we can go through my least valuable choices. One of them was he didn't play a horrible game, but Tyler Hero, I just thought, did not do enough offensively. Particularly, he was being guarded by Sam Merrill a lot. And Sam Merrill stood up Tyler Hero and Andrew Wiggins at times one-on-one.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And I just thought Miami lost the plot on offense. Like, you've got to have Tyler Hero set ball screens for Andrew Wiggins. Use him more in a pick and roll. Maybe one-on-one isn't the answer. Kuzma, you mentioned, just what the hell. And I just, LeBron and Austin Reeves, I thought were both bad for the Lakers by their standards. And then I just wrote the entire Memphis Grizzlies.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Hi, welcome to the playoffs. You lost by a thousand points. Jaron Jackson Jr., I mean, look, he's relegated to spacing duty on offense a lot when Zach Eady's at center. And they didn't play him hardly at all at center. Jaron Jackson Jr. is the only big man. They might want to try that. Not that it matters.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He couldn't get anywhere posting up the army of just handsy marauding guards and wings that the Grizzlies can throw or the Thunder can throw at him. You know, look, they're not going to win this series. I don't know if they're going to be competitive in this series. But if this goes like... It's not going to go 51 points. But if this goes just like... You're miles away.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And yeah, you don't have Brandon Clark and whatever. Like, the Marcus Smart thing was a disaster. Okay, fine. Canard didn't play until garbage time. That was weird. If this goes like this, I think we're going to get to the end of this and say... What do we actually have here? Like this Morant, Bain, Jackson Jr., who's eligible for an extension. Like, what does this amount to?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
One of the things I enjoy about Bob Myers when he calls Nuggets games is just unabashed love of Jokic. He cannot hide, and we've talked about this off-camera, he cannot hide how much he loves Jokic. He was sensational in Game 1 with 29-12-9. Harden was sensational for the Clippers, 32-11, only two turnovers. 20 turnovers cost the Clippers the game. Kawhi had seven of them.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
There are three very good players. None of them, one of them made an all-star team this year. He might make an all-NBA team, Jaron Jackson Jr. Are we trending toward a situation where like we have three guys who are like Bain probably won't ever make an all-star team just because he's in the wrong conference.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And he's, he's right around that sort of like CJ McCollum, just really good guard, but not good enough to make an all-star team level. John didn't make it this year. He doesn't play enough. Jaron Jackson, Jr. You could see him making like one out of every couple of years, maybe one out of every three years. Like,
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do we just have three guys who are somewhere around the 25th to 45th best player in the NBA instead of what we hope for, which is top 10 player, top 20 player, top 25 player. And if that's the case, then, and they're all gonna have to make a ton of money. Like what are we doing here? Because this team has talked a lot of shit. They've popped their chest out a lot.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
They've been around now for a while. This is not like a fresh, new, cool, like up and coming team anymore. And they're going to get rocked in this series. And we're going to be four years into this or whatever. And they're going to have one, one playoff series against an inexperienced Minnesota Timberwolves team. And then anytime they've put up against a real team, a veteran team, that's ready.
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They just don't, they, they don't have enough. And again, They had nothing for Oklahoma city, nothing. I mean, at Oklahoma city, the defense was absolutely terrifying, but the Grizzlies had absolutely nothing for them. And I'm just curious as to your thoughts, like big picture, what is getting, they, they get smoked in this series. What does this mean for them?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Don't suck toward the end of the year. Don't fire your coach. Don't get in a position where you have to fire your coach with nine games left. I didn't say they put themselves in this position. I'm just noting. You know what? They talk shit to everybody. So you know what? Just back it up. Back it up then.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
We're going to talk about we're going to talk about them in a second.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
We will talk about that and whether the Clippers indeed went too far away from the hardened Zubats pick and roll that was tearing the Nuggets apart for the first half of the game. But we're going to go big picture to start with. I gave you a homework assignment. Your homework assignment that I also completed because I am a diplomatic host was to pick an MVP of the first weekend.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
No, I do know. They made me. Are you? Excellent.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Can I say something crazy? Yeah, yeah. And I don't mean this the way it's going to come out. Like peak John Morant is awesome. Okay. Like peak John Morant is awesome. pre all the shit, John Morant was, was awesome. Yeah. Hasn't been the same guy this year as a basketball player, just not as aggressive, a finisher, not getting to the line as much, too many turnovers, et cetera.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
There have been too many games this year where I've watched Memphis and John didn't play or John's resting. Cause it's not resting. Like John's just on the bench waiting to come back in where I'm like, they don't look that much worse with Scottie Pippen Jr. running the offense. And that is not true. Let me be clear. They are worse with Scottie Pippen Jr. running the offense.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
But the fact that I can watch them and feel that now and then is a bad sign.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Dangerous.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
You mentioned that Drunk With Power podcast that you, me, and Rachel used to do. There was one we did. The tiki bar? We're at the tiki bar. We're at beer number three. I almost said a couple of things, and my brain was like, don't do it. And my dumb part of the drunk brain was like, do it. Just say it. And luckily, the smart brain won.
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I'm a real man. I'm a real man, Howard. Okay. I drink beer. People say this about you all the time.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
a most disappointing player or players or franchise of the first weekend and a coach of the first weekend. So I will let you start and we'll go through our runners up because we're going to hit a lot of stuff. MVP of the first weekend. I will let you get first pick Howard Beck. Who is it?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
The grenade thing is... It's so stupid that I almost admire how stupid it is. Yeah.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Where else can we go? Can we go bazooka? Can we go like... I said...
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Is he going to duck and cover, like lay down, like throw the grenade and lay down on the floor while the game is still going on? Like, where else can we go with this?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I'm going to go fast. I'm very excited about this topic. It's difficult because since you have three of them, Trading one. Let's do the contract. Ja, next season, $39 million. Following season 42, $27, $28, $45. Not that bad of a contract. It's going to be 24% of the cap. Bain, $36, $39, $42, $45. Jackson extension eligible after this season. We'll see what happens.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
But the challenge, since you have three of trading one, is... does a rebuild deal, which is what you always, which is the classic star deal. Does that make any sense when you have the other two left over? Like, why am I trading whoever for three first round picks when I have these other two guys making $85 million or whatever it ends up being?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Number two, and Zach Kleiman did his pound his fist on the podium, like, we're not trading John Moran. All those rival executives can suck it. Okay. I said this with Bill. Like, did I miss the parade of teams who are calling with monster offers for the dude who plays half the games and still is a non-shooter and still struggles on defense? I like job.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
So then I was like, I went through just rapid fire. Here are teams who theoretically, in some stretch of the imagination, need a point guard. Okay, might need a point guard, might conceive of themselves as in need of a point guard or just a shakeup. Washington, too far behind. Charlotte, Bill has mentioned the LaMelo ball, John Morant fake trade. Charlotte's not doing that.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
no um what if atlanta decided to just dump troy young well that doesn't make any sense they're roughly equivalent players roughly equivalent ages whatever the bulls well josh giddy kobe white and is there that sort of combines into being a point guard uh milwaukee clippers down the line if those two teams get old and shake it up that's years well maybe not years away brooklyn in a salary dump because they have cap space i don't see that like brooklyn sean marks came out and said if we're going to
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
go after a max level free agent they got to be a like a real game changer that was code for like it's got to be a top five to top 10 guy wink wink um the pelicans imagine a job for zion just just 2019 by the way here's a job with zion there's a nightmare how about how about this 2019 draft six years later yeah would darius garland be the number one pick Probably.
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The order of the draft was Zion, Ja, Barrett, Hunter, Garland. I mean, that's crazy to think about.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Yeah, I would say. So here are the other teams. And this will lead us into a brief Orlando-Boston thought process. Sacramento. You had two great point guards. Now you got zero. You seem to operate with just unending craziness. Why not? Kangs. Miami. I don't see it. I don't think that's the star Miami will go for when they use their ammo and they inevitably will try to use their ammo.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
But they have ammo in their Miami. I don't see it. Orlando. I think if we're talking about Memphis in the fallout of this series, Orlando is going to get destroyed by Boston. Their offense isn't good enough. We knew their offense isn't good enough. Franz Wagner actually looked a little shook at times during the game. Like, oh, you're closing out short to me and...
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OK, like I'm not used to being treated this disrespectfully. They're missing Suggs. They're missing Mo Wagner. Like they have pieces that are missing. There just isn't enough there. We have more than enough evidence now that there isn't enough offense there. I don't like Ben Carroll's awesome. Franz is going to make all star teams.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
There just isn't enough around them and they're not close to being good enough offensively. I think there are some things they could do better schematically, specifically in this series against Boston's switching defense. I don't really care to get into it because the series is not going to be interesting. But I think Orlando's reached a point where this summer, now,
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
is the time to go out and get a guard who can shoot and play make and take the burden off of them. I don't think jaw will be that guy, but you watch them against Boston and it's just like Palo is playing one on five and they, you know, I thought again, it doesn't seem like a super high scoring Celtics game. It doesn't seem like they got a lot of threes off. That's because the pace was really slow.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
They actually took 37 threes on 82 shots, I think. That's a 45% three-point rate. That would have been second in the NBA only to them. It's close to their regular season rate. They did a great job saying, you're switching to take away our threes. We're still going to generate threes because of who we attack and where
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And and where we kick the ball to in the X's and O's of that are somewhat interesting. But Orlando, just there's just not enough here. And it's time. It's time to use the picks. It's time to use the young players. It's time. Like, is Jet Howard anywhere? Like, is he alive? It's time to get a real guy in here.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
The unkind way of putting it is that Corey Joseph is starting for the Orlando magic and playing 26 minutes in a playoff game. And yes, I realized Jalen Suggs is hurt.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I don't know. Cole Anthony. Jonathan Isaac. Jonathan Isaac. Played 18 minutes as backup center. looked great on defense and the Celtics best offense was actually, I don't, I thought their best offense was not attacking the littler guys like Corey Joseph and the other little guys are not that little Anthony black, Gary Harris. I thought those guys mostly forced Tatum and Brown into tough shots.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
It was attacking the big guys, attacking Wendell Carter Jr. specifically and going at his feet and trying to get by him, get into the rim, start spraying it out for threes. And that's how they beat the switches with threes. Orlando's trying to depress their three-point rate by switching everything. And Isaac is the cure to that because they couldn't beat him off the dribble the way they could.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He just can't play. I guess he just can't play more than 18 minutes. Like, he just can't. And he's their third-leading scorer. It just... I don't want to be enough. I don't like it's time. It's been a fine season for them. I think they need to look at a total offensive. They've got a lot of good fail-safe stuff, like Paolo attacking Smalls in the pick and roll. That's a good fail-safe thing.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Franz, same thing. I think they got to look at, we got to add layers upon layers to this in the offseason, and we just got to get a big talent upgrade. One more pop quiz before we bring in Steve Jones Jr. to talk X's and O's. What is the more evil camera cutaway currently going through the NBA, Howard Beck? Is it the cutaways to Nico Harrison when Anthony Davis limps off the court?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Or the cutaways to Nikola Jokic looking frustrated on the bench? Which is meaner camera work? Oh, it's got to be Nico Harrison.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
patrick dumont in a closet somewhere so that he can't get on the podium and say something stupid like to every media availability they do is i look tim mcmahon wrote it today one of the many many many longtime mavs that they jettisoned in this overhaul the franchise is scott tomlin who is their pr guy for a long time and is super close with dirk and is an awesome awesome pr guy great and he's got to be watching this being like
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Y'all couldn't use my advice a little bit because this is not going great.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Yeah, I guess they didn't jettison him, although they probably would have eventually given the way that things are going. But he left on his own accord, along with just a bunch of people that Tim wrote about in his story. And Mark Stein has written a lot about I just think of him every time there's a PR disaster because Scooter, as everyone calls him, is fantastic at his job.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
It was one of the I don't think the Golden State Warriors somewhat self-proclaimed zealots of the beautiful game could play an uglier game than the Rockets had them play last night. And the Rockets, we all knew the half court offense was the problem. It's the reason I picked Warriors and seven. Oh, my God. Like they're Houston's.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I'll do it. You want to hire me as a consultant? The ringer might let me. I'll do it right now. I was going to say... Don't do what you're doing. Here, give me $500,000.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
All right. On that note, by the way, that's the correct answer to the evil cutaway question. It is that. That's very evil in a Dr. Evil delicious way. On that point, let's pause and we will bring in X's and O's guru Steve Jones Jr. of the Dunker Spot podcast to talk about adjustments in two series that are very interesting. All right, let's bring in an X's and O's expert, one of the best.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Follow him on Twitter. Listen to the Dunker Spot podcast. Steve Jones Jr., what's up, sir?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Hey. I hate the name. I like the name because it's my name. I just don't like saying my name.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
My dad, when my mom was pregnant with me, came up with various pun names. He could name me Hal, so my name would be Hal-O and things like that. Low-hanging fruit. All right, Steve. Nuggets Clippers is a series of the first round that resumes tonight. So I don't I don't want to get too far into that because it will be will be game two before we know it.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
So the two series that are in the West, both of them that are super interesting and massive game two is coming up. I want to hit you on what to look for in game two, starting with Minnesota Lakers. The Wolves go to L.A., No one's picking them. Literally. I think on ESPN, every single person picked the Lakers, which I picked the Lakers in seven. So it surprised me that no one's the wolves are good.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And the wolves have been quite good for a long time now. And just destroyed the Lakers in game one, made them look old, made them look slow, got every mismatch they wanted to get blue by Luca, sprayed the ball out for threes, looked bigger, stronger, tougher. What did you see? And what do you expect the Lakers to try to do? You can pick either end of the floor, honestly.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
You know, defensively, the Lakers switched everything. I think the Wolves knew that that was coming and exploited it with just a certain calm and steadiness that I didn't necessarily expect from them. Or offensively, when... Look, the Lakers aren't going anywhere if LeBron and Reeves combine for 35 points on 13 of 31 shooting. Luka with the quietest 37 points I can remember, one assist.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And we're going to bring in Steve Jones later to talk about potential adjustments in this series, because the big overarching question after game one is what it was after game zero, which is what how is Houston going to score in this series? Because their best offense in this game was missing their own shots. That was the best offense they had was just throw the ball at the rim.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Pick an end of the floor. How do the Lakers get right here?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Yeah, Howard, one of my other homework assignments for you was to pick a coach of the weekend. Who did you pick, by the way?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I liked the choice. He held his own. It was incredible. The claw, the finger strength, and the facial expressions were, yeah, this guy tangled with Zoe a million years ago. He's not afraid for a little arm wrestling with the basketball.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And Jokic is like, can anyone just let me play basketball? Can I just get the ball and start having fun? Why are all these people, Ishbia, now Jeff Van Gundy, taking the ball from me? What do I have to do? My choice was Chris Finch. And for a lot of the reasons Steve just said, They were super well prepared for everything the Lakers were going to do.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
We sometimes have both centers on the floor, Adams and Shen Goon, even with just one of them, our wings are gigantic. We'll get offensive rebounds. That's the only offense they had. They had 22 offensive rebounds, a 41% offensive rebounding rate that would have led the league by a mile. They led the league by a mile and they still scored 85 points. in the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I thought starting the game with Conley on Rui Hachimura, which is a thing I mentioned in my preview.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I wasn't sure if they were going to do it was really, really smart because it put their three best perimeter defenders and Jaden and Randall, who passes for a perimeter defender, I guess, in this matchup on the Lakers, three best offensive players and forced them to say, look, if you're going to direct your offense at Conley, You're going to have to do it through Rui.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And there was one bad Rui post-up, and that was pretty much it. Not only that, Howard, you mentioned the phrase earlier, no sacred cows. 24 minutes for Gobert, 22 minutes for Conley, 31 minutes for Reid, 25 for DiVincenzo, 20 for Alexander Walker. It's clear. He's going to play the guys he trusts to play.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And if that means less minutes for Gobert because the Lakers are five out, and that's somewhat problematic at times, or just... The Randall-Reed combination is rolling and Nas was awesome. Nas changed the game, not only with the shooting, but bullying switches, bullying Reeves on switches as another place the Wolves could pick at. Like Conley, you're the, like the Lakers want to attack small guys.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Attacking big guys didn't work. Like LeBron got swatted at the rim by Reed and Gobert. Randall held his own. You want to attack small guys? We're going to make our small guys as big as possible. Like DiVincenzo is no pushover. Alexander Walker is no pushover. Conley is at a massive size disadvantage against Luca and LeBron and even Reeves. And he played 22 minutes.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
The other guys are like, they're going to fight and hold their own. And the wolves are going to make you prove that we have to send doubles. But to your point, Steve, I think one of the lowest hanging fruit adjustments for the Good things happen when you put LeBron and Luka in the post. Even when they don't get switches, like Luka got some fouls on Jada McDaniels in the post.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He can get where he needs to go. Like, good things are going to happen. Like, DiVincenzo and Nikhil Alexander-Walker lean into those matchups and just sort of see how Minnesota responds. Force them to make some decisions. I think that was one obvious one. What about... What about defensively? Because as you said, if this is the game plan, just switch everything.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Minnesota proved in game one, we can exploit that. We know where Luka is on the floor. We can get Ant onto him or Randall onto him. Randall was super disciplined. I had a rule for this series. You do not get to go one-on-one in the post unless you have a good matchup that you've generated via a switch. He followed my Randall rule. Yeah. The Randall rule.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He followed it very well and made the right passes. And I thought their off ball movement for the most part, guys trading places, little flare screens, like was enough to confuse the Lakers help and pop guys open. So like the Lakers game plan can't be, let's just do the same thing. So what, what defensively are you going to look for?
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Obviously, you have to miss a lot to get that many offensive rebounds, but that's astonishing. 11 of 20 from the line didn't help. Ahmed Thompson, 0 of 4. And look, the Rockets live in terrible spacing when they play their two big guys together, and particularly when Thompson is on the floor. The Warriors' defense was too good for them to live in that terrible spacing in game one.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Can't trust him less than eight minutes or else he's just not playing. So that's like, you got to get something out of him. I, you know, and especially as offensively, they missed a vertical, like just something slicing down the middle of the floor at a fast rate. I thought they missed that.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Now Jackson is, is no great shakes, but he should, you know, if he plays eight minutes a game, the Lakers are not going to win the series. I don't think.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Yeah, I thought to your point about tough twos, you could probably isolate three or four threes in the game where the Lakers helped panic, helped a little bit in the paint when they didn't need to. I mean, there was an obvious one where Nas Reed, you know, got an open three when Randall was posting up LeBron and Nas Reed was one pass away. And you're like, LeBron doesn't need help.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Just stay, stay home on Nas Reed. But Minnesota, like, can I tell you my favorite amp play? Can I tell you guys my favorite amp play from the whole game? He got Luka on him on a switch. Obviously, that's a matchup the Wolves want. And for whatever reason, I can't remember exactly. It was in the second quarter.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He just didn't have his footwork and spacing where he wanted it to be to attack Luka right away off the dribble. So he passed it to somebody on the left wing, left sideline. And instead of fading out toward half court and just getting the ball back, he suddenly burst to the rim and kind of back cut Luka. And when Ant activates those parts of his game,
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
It really, really just energizes the entire Wolves team. It either got a layup or a dunk out of it. It was awesome. They were just super, super decisive. Howard, what did you take away from this game? Obviously, we all watched that this is one of the matchups of the first round. What did you see?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Oh, that's right. I forgot that was Saturday.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
There was just too many hands in passing lanes. Draymond was everywhere. Moody was great. Pajemski was great. Butler was great. And they just couldn't get out of their own way on offense and couldn't generate anything resembling reliable half-court offense. And... Lost the turnover battle. Free throws were even. If those things are even or tilt Golden State, the Rockets are in a lot of trouble.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Let's, let's be clear. That trade was a calculated salary dump of Carl Anthony towns calculated in the sense of we've gotten two players for one and a pick and And so we got, we got enough to justify the salary though. We got enough for our future and we got enough for our present.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And there were times this season when the present part of that bet didn't look like it was going to pay off and it took time. And I think Minnesota probably right now up one Oh, in this series probably feels like we're comfortable with the decision that we made despite the hiccups, despite the lack of shooting that is going to come back. to bite us at some point in these playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
But look at the bracket we're in. If we can sneak out this series, we get winner of Warriors Rockets and the Clippers and Nuggets and Thunder. You can all hang out there on the other side of the bracket. Like there's a pathway here for us to get back to where we were last year. Long way to go. Lakers have game two at home. Steve, one last thing you mentioned earlier
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
You don't want them... They are going to keep switching the Lakers defensively, and they will. I would like to see them hit Ant with some blitzes.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I would put two on the ball now and then and test his willingness to make the easy pass, test Minnesota's shooting around him, test their ability to make two or three snap reads in a row, because I think that's been inconsistent this year, and I just don't think they can sit back every single possession and just let them pick out whatever matchup they want. So I will expect...
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
selective trapping, blitzing, aggressive defense that we did not see much of in game one.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Just hit him.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And they couldn't even decide who to play. Sometimes they played two centers. Sometimes they had Brooks and Green on the bench for quite a bit of the fourth quarter. Jalen Green will come up soon. Don't worry. And they had Jabari Smith Jr., who I thought played pretty well. Sometimes they played him at the three. Sometimes they played him at the five. That's the versatility of the Rockets.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Okay, on to the only semi-exciting and yet gruesomely ugly game from Sunday's Chalk Chalk Chalk Fest until the middle of the night. Howard and I talked about Warriors Rockets a lot already. Now we're going to spin it forward. We talked about Jalen Green and Fred VanVleet missing every shot. We talked about Shen Goon, Draymond Green wrestling match.
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The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
We talked about Steph's brilliance and Jimmy's brilliance and blah, blah, blah. All the different lineups that got trotted out. in game one. My general big picture question for both of you, we'll start with you, Steve, because X's and O's guru that you are. It's the same question that I had coming into the series, only it's more urgent now. How are the Rockets scoring in the half court?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Like if you're on the coaching staff of the Rockets and you're digesting film from game one and you're trying to pick out possessions where, oh, we actually this alternative over here might have been better than the one we use. Like there's only so many answers on this roster, right? Like Jalen Green isolating Steph, that didn't work. Van Vliet, Shen Goon, pick and rolls.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Jalen Green, Shen Goon, pick and rolls. Like you can get some stuff out of that, but the Warriors of Draymond's in the game are pretty good at playing that semi straight up. And like, they're going to live with Shen Goon floaters from 15 feet and Fred Van Vliet, like 19 footers off the dribble. You can post Shingun and isolate them a million times.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I just think with Draymond, the math is not going to be good enough, as great as Shingun was, to just spam that and make that our whole offense. And they're not going to start trapping and exposing other stuff. And so I'm watching the game and I'm struggling. What do I do here? What's the place that I go for half-court offense other than miss my own shots and get rebounds?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
But it also felt like both teams... were sort of struggling to figure out, like the Warriors were using lineup combinations they never used, including a double center lineup. But the bigger story was Houston's just lack of offense. I think Butler's a great choice. Curry was on my list of potential MVP candidates. We might as well talk about him. 31 points, 12 of 19, five of nine on threes.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Yeah. In my notes here, and I take notes in every game, I noted the Dylan Brooks post-up of Steph, and I think they got one more in the second half and got something out of it. Jabari Smith got either an and one or a basket over Steph in the post. I would even like... If he's trying to hide on Ahmed Thompson or Tari Eason, those guys can back him down and just...
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
it's not the greatest answer, but it, it forces the Warriors to make decisions and maybe slide some help toward those guys. I'm in Thompson scored over him in the post, or he drew a foul or scored. I can't remember which I think he scored. Tara Eason is a strong dude. He doesn't have like a graceful back to the basket game, but you can, you can do it. Um,
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And the only other thing I saw was in the third quarter at some point, they started running some, like they emptied out the left side of the floor and ran a couple of like handoff pick and rolls between Shen Goon and Van or one was Adams and Van Vliet and Adams got a dump off layup out of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
One was Dylan Brooks and Adams and Dylan Brooks got all the way to the rim curling around and missed at the rim. Just a little more juice like that. But yeah, this was my big concern. And I just don't, I was sitting there struggling. Like it's, it's my job to try to think of answers and pretend I'm in the coach's room. And like, I just, these are the only answers I can come up with Howard.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
What else did you notice in that game from Houston? Other than again, 22 offensive rebounds, which is amazing. And the warriors are small and that's just going to be a problem. The entire series. I just don't know like how many more off you can, you rebound 60% of your own business. Like, I don't think you can get much more than that.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Let me hit you guys on one more series that we have been derelicted, not talking about, and it does not resume until Tuesday. So we have some time tomorrow. Um, Part of the reason it's difficult to talk about is because we don't know if Damian Lillard is coming back for game two, for game three, at any point. And obviously that changes the whole series.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Three of those threes were absolutely bonkers. Just out of nowhere. One of them falling out of bounds. One of them, a pivotal one in the fourth quarter after a botched out of bounds call that went the Warriors way when the ball went off of there. I think Draymond on the sideline, just an incredible game from Curry. Would you like some Curry stats in this game?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
The Bucs are drawing dead in this series without Damian. Like they can't win the series without Damian. I don't think I said before I would have picked the Pacers to win the series with Damian healthy from game one. I just think the Pacers are a really good basketball team. Damian obviously changes the series. Game one, just total nightmare for the Bucs.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Total nightmare for anyone who's worried about Giannis looking at the roster and being like, what? Anyone? Kuz? Kuz? Is this thing on, Kuz? Brooke Lopez? Eh. There was an alarming amount of Kevin Porter Jr. going on. He's alarmingly essential to the Bucs all of a sudden.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And the Pacers, despite a bad shooting game, and I thought a fine all-around floor game from Tyrese Halliburton, but a bad shooting game. I liked every single three he took. He missed all of them. That's not going to happen again. Just blew the doors off the Bucs. Unbelievable Siakam game. Unbelievable Nembhard game. Again, it's hard to talk adjustments without knowing what Dame's likelihood.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Howard, did you catch this game or no?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Anything strike you before we get to Steve on what to look for in game two? No, go Steve. Go Steve. I mean, I liked a lot of what... Indiana did across the board. I think they could have leaned even more into Halliburton Siakam, two-man game. And Giannis was unbelievable. Like, I just don't know what else he's supposed to do other than shoot better than 8 of 15 from the line.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
But 36 and 12, no one else really coming along for the ride until it was kind of out of hand and AJ Green made some shots. What do you just in general, it could be a Pacers adjustment. Like what's, what are you curious about in game two? Dame, no Dame, whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Second spectrum tracking, 24 pick and rolls for Curry. That's about average for him. 1.385 points per possession when they got a shot directly out of those plays. And I think they could actually go to it more. Obviously, the Rockets are messing around with the matchups. And where is Shingun? Shingun's guarding Moses Moody. to start games, which is what I predicted they would do in my preview.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And that's Dame is not going to change that. If anything, it will get more comfortable. You know, I just thought it was easy for Halliburton. Like, you know, if Brooke Lopez is on Miles Turner and maybe they shift him to Siakam at some points, we've seen them toggle that matchup back and forth. If he's on Miles Turner, that pick and roll, pick and pop.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And Miles Turner mixed in, I thought, even too many rolls, like too many short rolls. But he made jumpers from 18, 19 feet. When he pops to three, it's just an easy decision tree for Tyrese Halliburton. If he's wide open... Just give him the ball. And then he gets the ball. And if a third guy stunts at him, he knows where that's coming from and Miles Turner can make that pass.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
If Tyrese Halliburton kind of dribbles and hangs out with it a little bit and he sees that third rotator, that third stunt they're coming, he just skips Miles Turner altogether and hits that guy's guy. Andrew Nembhard, there's a pass that Tyrese made to Nembhard in the left corner in this exact situation that was just...
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
a genius point guard thinking two steps ahead of the defense and saying, I see it, I see it, and it's over for you. And it was just too easy for them. And I don't know really kind of what answer. You mentioned zone, you know, and every adjustment there's a counter for. And, you know, look, the Pacers made some contested threes early in the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Siakam, Jairus Walker made one that there was really nothing going on. He just rose up. And if you hit those shots, it's just maybe – you know, not your day, but the other thing is five turnovers for the Pacers. The bucks don't force turnover. So the Pacers are going to get shots every single possession.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And if you just give them shots, every single possession, they're going to score a lot of points. And the free throws were about even. And if the bucks, if those are even those two categories, the bucks are not going to win this series. Um, I don't know, offensively, anything. I mean, Giannis was awesome. And I thought their best offense was actually using Giannis as a screener.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
They just don't have enough dynamic ball handlers to really do that over it. He set 15, 16 ball screens, 1.55 points per possession out of it. That's a monster number. And if Dame does come back, I think you just got to lean into that two-man game as much as you can with shooting around it because I don't know what else the answers are.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I like, are you Torian Prince?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Are you a shooter? Are you Torian Prince?
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I try. I don't, I don't want to go big picture after one game. I don't want to, but the big picture has been the same for a while now. And the, the Middleton Kuzma trade was obviously like, I tweeted it at the time, even though I was unemployed, just a massive vote of no confidence in Chris Middleton. Like you can like Kuzma is whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Like I, you and I, Steve, both, I think tweeted something to the effect of like the coups that played for the Lakers. Yeah. would actually help this team. Size, shooting, cutting, defense, toughness on the boards. He's not a great defensive player, but he can be. This Kuz is not helping the team.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
But that trade was about, we just have no faith in Chris Middleton being healthy and bouncy and mobile enough. And it just, the atrophy around Giannis and the roster just is what it is. I liked the Dame trade. The Dame trade has not worked. Not the way that I expected it to work. And you just like... Brooke's a free agent after this season. He's old.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Sometimes he's stuck on Draymond Green because of cross-matching, because Draymond's on Shengun, and boy, is that just a wrestling match in the paint. And when they get that matchup, I just go right to it. In semi-transition, just go set a screen, Draymond for Steph, let Steph cook against the big guy. Sometimes it's on Gary Payton. Steph GP2 pick and rolls are pretty good.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
You know... Giannis has two years left after this guaranteed. So there's no rush on any of this. But they better get their asses back in the series one way or another. Because if this is another ugly loss and this time Giannis is healthy... I'm sorry to Bucs fans. The questions are going to be unavoidable, but it's only one game. They haven't played at home yet.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And as long as Giannis is on the floor playing for the Bucs, you cannot count them out of anything. But I don't know. I like Howard anything. Just I don't know. I don't know how else to like politely address this topic. The roster around him is getting worse and worse and worse.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And there's not really anything in the young player cupboard coming up because the draft picks have missed and or been traded.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
He's going to get his Jersey retired in Milwaukee.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And obviously the battle with the Warriors is they're going to trap those Force the pass to Gary Payton or Moses Moody or Draymond Green. Try to force Draymond to pass it at the rim to who's ever in the dunker spot and get the Warriors in this battle of like your small, vertically jumping, vertically challenged guys are going to have to finish over our gigantic athletic guys.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I will address the Nets only because you brought them up. My question with the Nets and Giannis, and I talked about this on my old podcast before it went away. He's like, that's cool. You got a million picks. You got your own picks. You got lots of extra picks from lots of places. You got, you know, some guys. What's the plan? Who else is coming with Giannis? Because who is Giannis playing with
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If you have to trade whatever you got to trade, plus your picks to get them in there and they have salary cap space. So it's easier for them to not trade out of their roster. But like, so I'm Giannis, I'm looking around. It's like, okay, it's me and like Noah Clowney and maybe Cam Johnson. If he's still around and Cam Johnson, a nice player. I like Cam Johnson.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
but, and the roster is like younger. It's like drew Timmy is drew Timmy carrying me to, to, to the promised land.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Like it, there's gotta be another shoe there because, and it's not like Giannis is of the age where he has two years for you to wait, to, to wait for you to drop the other shoe, to get me the other guy, to get me to, and he's good enough that he can elevate, you know, cam Johnson plus Nick Claxton. Plus if cam Thomas is still around and, and,
The Zach Lowe Show
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you know, doesn't shoot every single time because Giannis is now on the team. He can elevate that team, but I just don't know. Anyway, enough. The Bucs can rally. I hope the Bucs rally. I hope this is a nice long series. You said something else that interests me and I don't remember what it was. Okay, guys, there's only two games today. So we can really dig in Detroit, New York game two.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
My pick in that series was Knicks in five games. And yeah, five. That's right, Steve Jones. What did you pick? Did you make a pick?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Pistons in six. I don't see it. But the Pistons played well for three quarters. And... And then pooped all over the garden floor in the fourth quarter. And obviously Clippers Nuggets resumes tonight. That is the series of the first round. I picked Nuggets in seven. I don't know if either of you guys made picks in that series. Would you like to share them?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Logan forced me to make picks, which I hate doing, on the pod last week.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And I just think the Warriors are going to win that battle enough times, including sometimes it's really hard. There was that one play which proved to be critical. Steph Draymond, pick and roll, I think. Draymond rolls into open space, drops it off to Moody under the basket. Moody looks up like, oh, my God, there's giant guys all around me. What am I supposed to do? Kicks it to Pajemski.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
They're very good. By the way, I picked Nuggets in seven. Clippers in six is still very much on the table. I don't feel confident in the Nuggets after that game, but I cannot wait. I may have to take a power nap today so I can stay up and watch that game because I don't think I have the patience to what I mean. People are laughing at me. First of all, I'm old.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Second of all, the game will end at like one in the morning. So, yeah, that's late for me. OK, that's true. I'm an old dad. That's late for me. I might have to take a pop because I don't it's that one has me tingling with anticipation. OK, Howard Beck of the ringer dot com can listen to him on real ones with Loga and Raja. He writes. He does everything. He's a jack of every trade. Steve Jones, Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
What's your what's your podcast schedule? I've lost track of all in my in my fun employment. I lost track. Every day was the same. So I don't know what days anything happens anymore.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Thank you, guys. Steve Jones Jr., just one of a kind. If you want to know, I always try to bring people on. If you want to know what actually happened in the game and not who's got guts and who shrinks from the moment, this is one of the guys to follow. Howard, I'll see you soon, at least in a couple Mondays. Steve, I'll see you soon. Thank you, guys. Enjoy the playoffs. Thanks, Zach. All right.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
We are going to hit every series MVPs of the first weekend, most disappointing players, things to watch in game two of all the most interesting series. We've got Howard Beck and Steve Jones jr. To help us break everything down coming up on the Zach Lowe show. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. It's Monday at 9.30 in the morning. Eight games down. The annual first weekend of the playoffs is over.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Thanks for listening. Enjoy the game Tuesday night and later in the week. I will be back on Thursday and we will update you on everything that's happened. Get ready. The whirlwind of the playoffs is here. Must be 21 and over and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. Gambling problem?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Call the 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com slash RG. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 sport in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Pajemski, because the defense is in rotation, pump fake, drive, draws a foul. Houston challenges the foul.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
We might as well do my least valuable player choice now so we can dive into the series. I have a feeling we might veer to the same guy here, but... Jalen Green was a disaster for the Rockets. 3 of 15, 2 assists, 7 points, 0 of 4 on threes. And I mentioned with Michael Pina last week that...
The Zach Lowe Show
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You know, I don't know what Houston's answer in the half court is going to be other than Shingun has to have a monster series. And Shingun did everything he could in game one, considering the defense he's facing. One of their answers against the Warriors, and they played five times before this game last night, has been trying to get Steph switched on to Jalen Green.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And I said in my preview, I just don't think that's good enough. He's just not good enough of a one-on-one player. He's not powerful enough. He doesn't slow down and draw help and make productive passes. And that was true last night. Every time he got that switch, it was just a tough shot, a tough two, a tough flailing shot at the rim, a drive to nowhere.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Defensively, I thought he was actually all right. He's the weak link for the Rockets, but he's all right. He didn't get smoked on that end of the floor for the most part. Just offensively, look, Van Vliet was four of 19, two of 13 on threes, had a lot of good looks. The difference is seven assists to two turnovers for Van Vliet.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And I actually thought a lot of the shots Van Vliet took were just good shots that he missed and shots that he's going to have to take. I thought a lot of the shots Jalen Green took were just... prayers thrown around the general area of the backboard that if you miss, the Warriors are going to run.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And the Warriors were smart to run against the Rockets when the Rockets were playing double big, when the Rockets were in, were going to try to set up their zone, run, run, run, run before you can set all that stuff up. Obviously, Jalen Green's not going to go three of 15 every game. if he can't get going one-on-one against Curry, I just think they're going to run short of answers on offense.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
I just thought he was overwhelmed by the moment and just a disaster in game one. And I was actually a little surprised that he made Odoka. Congratulations, by the way, Coach Odoka, one of the three finals for Coach of the Year. I was surprised he brought him back late in the game. Just an awful... And Amin Thompson could be a runner-up for this. Like, eight points,
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Just couldn't, they just, the Warriors defense is just too good for them to get enough of like the, he's hanging around the dunker spot. Shangoon finds him on a like little slick interior pass, a back cut here. They just couldn't find any of that. And if he's just standing 15 feet from the basket and no man's land along the baseline, he's not of much use on offense other than rebounding.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And if he's going to go for it, the line, it's a disaster. Six offensive rebounds, fine. Six assists, fine. was just a net negative spacing-wise. But Jalen Green, oof. The Rockets... By the way, advanced stats in this game. Rockets... Let's see what they managed here. 95.5 points for 100 possessions. By the way, interesting nugget, Howard Beck. The...
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
Slowest pace of play in the NBA for any team this year was Orlando at 96 and a half possessions per per game. Ninety six and a half is the magic number through game ones. We have Boston, Orlando, 87 pace. Miami, Cleveland, 87 and a half pace. Lakers, Wolves, 88 pace. Rockets, Warriors, what we're talking about now, 89 pace. Clippers, Nuggets, 91 pace. Bucks, Pacers, 97 and a half pace.
The Zach Lowe Show
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So almost, that's the third fastest series and it's almost those dead last regular season pace. Detroit, New York, 99 pace.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
almost you know like 20th in the regular season and then memphis oklahoma city 108 and a half of just oklahoma city running them to death a very slow first round anyway that's my end of my jail and green thoughts he was sounds like he was your candidate as well yeah uh the game slows down in the playoffs is that what we are told all the time i guess it slows down the playoffs we'll see how how any of this holds up some of these teams are slow so yeah they're slow to begin with
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
And really, we only had two wild games. Well, two and a half, I would say. Knicks Pistons got wild in the fourth quarter. Warriors Rockets was... Ugly, bruising, kind of wild. Steph went bananas. Jim Butler went bananas. The Houston offense went completely off the rails. And then Clippers Nuggets had enough wildness for an entire playoff series in one game.
The Zach Lowe Show
The Playoffs Are Here! Game 1 Takeaways With Howard Beck and Series Breakdowns With Steve Jones Jr.
They had some insane ones last night when Jimmy was on the bench. In the second quarter, especially, it was like, have you guys lost your minds? Has everyone lost their minds in the game?
The Zach Lowe Show
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I'm not either. It was watching them yesterday. I swear there were moments, Zach, where I was like, you know, we all love, we love teams that really rely on the pass a lot. Ball movement, player movement, right? Beautiful offense, all this. And there were moments yesterday where I'm like, don't stop passing, just stop passing the ball.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Because every time the ball was in flight, it just looked like it was a turnover waiting to happen. they're that quick to it. They're that long. They're that just, just that swarming nature of the thunder defense. It just didn't look like there was any winning. Like was Yoko supposed to just, I suppose you could just turn around and keep shooting over Alex Caruso. Cause he's taller than him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
That's not where the nuggets are at their best is just Yoko shooting time and time again. He only had one field goal attempt in the third quarter. I don't think I realized that till long after the fact that, And I don't know exactly what to make of that. I have to go back and look. And was that him not getting the ball, just being able to get it at all? Or was that just him not being aggressive?
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
There's, you know, we would be remiss if we didn't mention, we've only alluded to it, that despite everything, there's a world where if Michael Porter Jr. 's shoulder isn't wrapped in like, you know, 50 yards worth of medical tape and Aaron Gordon doesn't strain his hamstring, who knows? I mean, maybe game seven goes differently. Maybe the series doesn't get to a game seven.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Maybe the Nuggets wins. I think there's no question. that as we've said, the Nuggets rotation, not deep enough, not enough talent. They have had too many misfires. They have had this battle of attrition of just losing guys since the championship. And look, I will say in Calvin Booth's sort of defense, Um, nobody goes a hundred percent on their draft picks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And when you, you know, take a group of, of Watson, Strother, Brown, whoever, and Brown hits and the others don't. And there's a TBD on, on some of those guys that we can't write them off yet. Your hit rate is not usually like the Thunder's hit rate is ridiculous on everybody that they draft, wherever they draft them or sign them off the scrap heap or whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
They just hit on everything, it seems like. But Sam Presti's had his misses, too. Hitting on Brown was huge. But I think that there's a world here where if, you know, if Porter and Gordon aren't limited by their injuries, is this a little bit different? I don't know. I still think the Thunder win because the Thunder were just better.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But I also think that this just underscores in the brightest possible ink the fact that the Nuggets have allowed the roster to wither a bit. And the answer is not Russell Westbrook. It's definitely not Dario Saric, as you mentioned. They didn't have a great offseason. And the last two have just been tough. And Jokic is finally sort of saying it out loud.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
This is not the kind of superstar who's going to start pounding the table and demanding trades or changes or I'm going to walk or I'm going to demand a trade. I don't think that's the way he's wired. They're fortunate for that, but they also shouldn't take him or that dynamic for granted. So...
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
That's the thing. So much of this, of course, has to do with the new system, with the second apron and first apron and all the limitations. A lot of it has to do with the fact that, yes, they're out of picks because of all the deals you already mentioned. There just isn't a lot you can do. There's just not a lot of flexibility. And a lot of it has to do with decisions already made.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And look, Jamal Murray is a great player and you always have to overpay your own guys to keep them happy when they're stars. Even if he's never made an all-star team or all NBA, we know he's an all-star caliber player. And this is what teams do. Like this is what you do. And Jamal Murray was sulking up until the point that they actually gave him the extension and it was an issue.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Overpaying Michael Porter Jr., maybe you could have avoided that one. But once you've made those commitments, pre-apron, post-apron, whatever, you make those kinds of extreme commitments because you're trying to keep together the core of your championship team. When it doesn't work out, if guys don't continue to get better, or if they erode, or if they get hurt, you just get stuck.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And without picks to move, without much... With that much move to operate within the whole system, it's not even just the Nuggets cap. It's the whole 30-team system where, well, if you want to loosen up your cap, find a team that's under the cap, give away a guy, and then you can trade for no returning salary or very minimal returning salary.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
There aren't that many teams who are under the cap to do that with in the first place, right? So even if you're just trying to balance the books, just reshuffle things a little bit. Give yourself some more room to operate, to sign guys. I don't even know how they get there. And yeah, Michael Porter Jr., I don't know what the market is for him. That's a negative contract.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Jamal Murray's a great player, but with a contract that outstrips his play. Aaron Gordon is essential. You don't want to lose him. And you probably don't want to lose Murray either, as you noted. So I don't know where they go from here either. I know you can't just stand pat. That's easy to say. You can't just run it back and expect to go deeper next season. But...
The Zach Lowe Show
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Quick point on KCP, by the way, before I forget it again. It might have been an overpay to keep him. And this is a team that hates paying the tax. They're generally a frugal-ish franchise. That's certainly been the case with front office hires and others. Yes, Christian Brown popped. Christian Brown had a better season and may be a better player now than KCP. But the point isn't
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Even if Christian Brown is now the better player, the point isn't that you had a guy ready to move into his role. The problem is the backfill issue. Christian Brown replaces KCP. Well, who replaced Christian Brown? Nobody. So if you had kept KCP, and again, there are consequences potentially for that too.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
We just talked about all the cap issues, and it would have complicated them further potentially. But the point is that when you lose a guy...
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
for nothing and the bets that you're now making in free agency are on lesser players you have lost depth just by definition if brown's the better player great would have been great to have this version of christian brown and kcp still there like that is that is a something that is conceptually possible in this league so it's it's the ripple effect of letting a really what had been a very valuable player walk even if he's not quite the guy he was a couple years ago so um
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Anyway, I just wanted to note that before I lost that particular train of thought, because I think there's been a lot of like, well, they were vindicated by Brown's emergence, sort of, but you still did not have enough capable bodies and enough shooting.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Yeah, maybe that was KCP.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I think we'll be hearing it soon, by the way. I imagine that... Maybe at the awards show.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
That was a great run. Great run. Among the bigger misfires of the Adam Silver era, the awards show. Although I did attend one, and I had a nice time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
We might as well just stick West as long as it was just, you know, nice smooth segue from, you know, Thunder Nuggets to Wolves Thunder.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I'm fascinated by Julius Randall. We're getting the ultimate referendum on both ends of that trade, right? Both teams are in the conference finals, the Knicks and the Wolves. The Wolves made the conference finals last year with Carl Anthony Towns as essentially their second best player and then traded him, mostly for financial reasons, maybe 99% for financial reasons.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Has a team, Zach, ever traded away a guy for any reason, especially financial reasons, and been just as good or maybe better immediately. I'm fascinated by this and by Randall's place in this series because living in New York, as you and I both do, or you're nearby in any case. Yeah, thanks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Do you not see the ad campaigns all the time in the subway that says, never become a former New Yorker? I can't remember who's, it's one of the real estate companies or something.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Didn't mean to hit a sore spot there on a Monday morning. You and I have seen a lot of Julius Randle the last few years in New York. And Knicks fans had a real love-hate relationship with him. He made All-NBA a couple of times. He was part of their rebirth, their reemergence.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He was super, super frustrating at times and a black hole on offense at times and a ball dominant, you know, good Lord, Julius, please pass player type. Sometimes he also had like, was one of the, you know, leading assist guys for a couple of those seasons. So like when he was at his best, He was a really good passer, playmaker, and his playoff performances were not great.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He's having his best postseason right now, and he's doing it on lower usage, as he should. And I think he had a rough start with the Wolves, or at least a bumpy start, an awkward start.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
this season and part of the wolves turning things around when somebody, when people were like, wait a minute, where, where's this Minnesota thing coming from as they started to come on down the stretch of the season and into the playoffs. I think a lot of that was Julius Randall kind of finding his place with them and a comfort zone.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And so look, I don't want to stipulate that we know what we'll get from Ant Edwards because I think as a young star, he is still a little bit up and down too. Um, but if you just assume that Ant Edwards as you know, their, their North star is going to, uh, be the one thing that you more or less count on, it becomes a matter of like, all right, who else is in, is, is joining the party.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And there's nobody else who you look at on that roster as a go-to score other than Julius Randall. And I think a lot's going to be on him. You mentioned the possibility of them putting Caruso on him. Um, is it, or is it Hartenstein? Uh, is it like, I assume he'll get all kinds of different looks. Um, All that's going to be incredibly interesting.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But I feel like to the extent that the Knicks and Wolves made a bet, whether it was financial reasons, whether it's competitive reasons, whether it was just opportunity, you swap these two all-star caliber power forwards. And in this series, in both of the series, those guys are going to take on incredibly important roles.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And we're going to sit here in the peanut gallery doing what we do and calling everything a referendum on something.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
You just sent all the millennials scrambling to NFL.com or footballreference.com or something for Singletary Riggins.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I appreciated it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
The Wolves have a lot more shooting, obviously, than the Nuggets. So they at least have the luxury of decent spacing and of guys that you're taking a chance, if you're the Thunder, of leaving. And in both of their offensive hubs, Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle, You know, not elite playmakers, not Jokic level. Nobody is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But these are both guys who I think are very capable of making good, smart passes, intuitive passes. Again, this was the roller coaster of Randall over the last couple of years, you know, in New York. At his best, guys flirting with triple doubles. At his worst, he's, you know, barreling into double teams or triple teams.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And Anthony Edwards has had to go through the typical evolution of a young, dominant, ball-handling scorer who his best attribute is just putting the ball in the hole and mostly getting the rack. And obviously his three-point game has opened up a lot of everything else this season, too.
The Zach Lowe Show
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But yeah, Anthony Edwards and Randall, too, in different ways, sometimes prone to bouts of impatience or indulgence. And this series is going to test them to the nth degree. And I think so much of this is just about your patience and intuitiveness in reading the defense. Because you will get yourself in a lot of trouble if you're trying to force the issue.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
So every time we see Anthony Edwards have a great game, a great series, it's okay. Look, there's another step on the way. He's on his way. He's on his way to superstardom. He's, you know... And then occasionally, as young players do, there's a little bit of backslide. So this is, by I think every definition, his biggest test. And we'll see if he can solve it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Yeah, I was wondering too, I was kicking this around yesterday, is obviously you want Gobert down in the paint. Are you cross-matching or is he having to, you don't want him sitting out there with Chet at the three-point line. So I assume they're switching up a lot of the assignments that are cross-matching. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Yeah, you know, I'm also wondering, like, after we saw what I would term the J-Dub game yesterday, you termed it the Alice Caruso game, like, Jalen Williams has not been a consistent number two threat next to Shea in this postseason. He's a great player, and we saw the full capabilities of him yesterday, especially when we could get out and run and kind of get in a rhythm.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I think they're going to need that. Like obviously the thunder have a lot of guys who can do something. And, but they're very, I think Shay centric when it comes to the offense and then a lot of shooting, but Jalen Williams is the other guy who can do a lot with the ball in his hands. And I think the time is going to come at some point in this series where
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
where they're going to need that consistent second threat. And again, these guys are really young. They've never been on this stage before. It's going to be learn as you go. But I think this is a big series for J-Dub in the same sense that it is for Randall with Minnesota.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
You're going to make me pick again, Zach?
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I had the Thunder coming out of the West since last summer. That was not a unique or dicey pick at all. So yeah, I expect the Thunder to win this. I have enough respect for the Timberwolves that I will say Thunder in seven. Not saying you're disrespecting them.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Thunder in seven. I think there's just enough... There's just enough... Volatility is the wrong word. Maybe it's just the youth factor. There's just something about the Thunder where... The youths? The youths. I don't think they're just going to come out and blow the Wolves away. I think the Timberwolves are more than solid at both ends.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And I just... Yeah, I think they're going to give them a handful. And as should be the case in the conference finals, this will also be the Thunder's biggest test to date. I think this could go the distance. No? They just passed a pretty big one. I know, but a semi-broken Nuggets team. I know that Jokic is the greatest player in the world.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And the fall off from him to everybody else is what it is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Jokic is the best player that the Thunder have faced, yes. But the Wolves are a better three-point shooting team, a better defensive team, and a deeper team by far than the Nuggets. So just before you get Nuggets fans all mad at me for not properly respecting them, I do think this is a bigger test across the board holistically. So...
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Okay. Teenage me. Teenage me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I mean, you might have said it to the wrong guy at some point. You might have.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Yeah, I mean, that's fair. Like you, I got lulled into the possibility in the early minutes of, ooh, ooh, Thunder, maybe a little tight. Ooh, the youth's showing. Here we go. And probably a foolish notion to have. You're right, obviously, that the tenor of things changed with Adelman leaving his two best players on the bench to start the second season. Start at the second, right?
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
At one point, to your point of how even it is and how tough it is to pick. At one point, I was just like, you know, just stream of consciousness, typing down notes. And I'm like, well, if you want to beat the Knicks, just do not let it be close in the fourth quarter because Brunson's going to tear you apart. And then I thought, but wait a minute. It's close to the fourth quarter.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Tyrese Halliburton might tear you apart. Like, yeah, don't either end of this. Don't let it be close. I think if you want to win any game in this series, you're best served by being up by 20 or 30 points because these are two of the best clutch players in the league right now. Jalen Brunson, literally the clutch player of the year. I think he was top of my ballot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And Halliburton has just had some incredible moments. And they've both, both these teams got here in part by like just you know, shaking off 20 point deficits, just wiping them out. And they both are great on the road. Um, the Pacers won game four at Milwaukee to take the three to one lead in that series. They won games one and two, of course, in Cleveland. Um, and then five to close them out. Um,
The Zach Lowe Show
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They were... I looked up last year's series. Last year's series Pacers-Knicks is not very helpful considering how many Knicks were not playing and also the Knicks having since swapped out a few guys. But the Pacers were 0-3 at the Garden last year in that series. And then, of course, won Game 7 there when the Knicks, of course, also had no bodies left.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But the Pacers are just... The point being Pacers are not... daunted by anything or anywhere or anyone. Uh, I love that about them. They've got a swagger that's, that seems to like go just far, far, far outstrip their, um, their resumes. Um, they, they strut around like a team that's won three championships.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He did the big balls dance.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Did they find him? I thought they warned him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I'm convinced that secretly sometime over the years, the NBA named their deputy commissioner the church lady from Saturday Night Live. Every time they're cracking down on profanity, every time they're cracking down on the big balls dance, in my head, it's the church lady. No, he got warned.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Anyway, continue.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
The rivalry part of this is real. It doesn't matter that none of these players had anything to do with all of the wonderful moments in the 90s that you just took us down memory lane on. It's memory banked. It's in the DNA of New Yorkers and of Indianapolisians.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Hicks versus Knicks. Was that the... Everybody, by the way, as preparation for this series, your homework, everybody, is to go watch Dan Clores' film. God, what was the documentary? I can't remember the name now. On Reggie and Spike? Yes. Incredible. That should be everybody's preparation, including mine, because it's been too long since I've seen it and I've forgotten too much of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
It was awesome.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But I also just thought it was almost like Oklahoma was just kind of feeling their way into this, or maybe they were a little tight and they just needed to loosen up. Whatever it was, when they just started to crank up the defensive intensity and just started to really get after it, and jumping passing lanes and grabbing everybody and poking the ball away, and then it's just run out after run out.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Tyrese Halliburton, I looked up my story from the elimination game last year. Tyrese Halliburton wore that on a t-shirt to his post-game interview after the Pacers eliminated the Knicks last spring. So that was phenomenal.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Nick's employee, Wally Zerbiak, called him a fake all-star, which he later apologized for. I think that was because... No, don't apologize.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He took it back.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And then we've got the athletic poll that called him overrated. Although our friend Rachel Nichols did a nice job of breaking down the math there. I think she determined that it was like nine players determined that he was the most overrated.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Because if you took the number of players they actually got for the poll and then used the percentages that they listed, it's a really small number that actually called him that. But it ends up a headline.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He brings that on himself.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And he doesn't get testy about it when he's then asked about it or when he's called out on it, right? That's the thing. He definitely will... Just own it. He's having fun with it. Are we going to see him hit a big three and then do this? Is he going to taunt Brunson? I don't know.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Leave Stiller out. Do not go after my guy, Ben Stiller. That's where I draw the line. The friend of the real ones, Ben Stiller.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
They're also, like, the Knicks over the last couple of years have done this thing where they're bringing back, like, everybody. Like, Marbury's in every game. Tim Thomas is in every game. Tim Thomas is in every game. Patrick Ewing, Larry Johnson. Like, if you spent five... When's Chris Dudley coming back? Like, they've brought back just about everybody. Okay.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And to me, it was just so much about... their aggression, which is who they are. And they come at you in waves, and the Nuggets have no waves. They have, you know, four and a half guys, three and a half guys with the way that Aaron Gordon was limited. I didn't think Aaron Gordon was going to play. From everything I had heard in the preceding couple of days, it sounded really bleak.
The Zach Lowe Show
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You know, the Knicks weren't the greatest defensive team for most of the season, the regular season. And they have found another gear in the playoffs. And some of that, I think, has just been, you know, the teams that they have faced, right? Obviously, the Celtics are elite. The Pistons, not so much. But I think, you know, as I was going over things...
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Yesterday, something that struck me with regard to the matchups so far, I don't think the Knicks defense has truly been tested to the limit. You would think they would have been by the Celtics, but the Celtics really got bogged down in their three-point shooting and iso ball and stalled themselves out to an extent.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I give the Knicks plenty of credit for creating the dynamics for that, but the Celtics, not a big ball movement team. Pistons, certainly not. Pacers? Pacers are averaging 337 passes a game in the playoffs. That's number one in, uh, in, in the league, in the playoffs. Um, they're averaging nearly 30 assists per game in the playoffs. That's number one.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And then Shams had the report that this is going to be weeks. And I think his report was basically like, he's not playing. He's just out. And then suddenly as the game got closer, it was, no, he's starting. He's going to give it a go. And like you, I was really worried that we were going to see something terrible.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Um, the Pistons and Celtics were two of the lowest in the league in the post season in, in passes per game. Um, the Knicks, by the way, also among the lowest 253 passes per game. Um, And the Pacers also lead the playoffs, as you would expect, in points off of assists. They're generating over 76 points a game off of assists.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
The Pacers, one of the things I love about them over the last couple of years is they don't profile like a big powerhouse team, in part because Halliburton's numbers don't just pop off the page. And Siakam's always been a really good second wheel in Toronto and Indianapolis. But these aren't your prototypical superstars or, um, you know, perennial NBA. I think Halliburton's probably go.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I assume we're going to hear all NBA this week to MVP and all NBA are the things we're still waiting on. Right. All rookie teams, maybe. Um, So I think Halliburton will make All-NBA for the first time. But these guys do not strike you as your prototypical, dominant, crush-you superstars who are just going to go out and drop 30, 35 on your head every night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I think part of that's the way that those two guys are wired. And I think part of that is just by design. This Pacers team is just a really selfless, fun, ball movement kind of team. And I think that's going to test the Knicks defense in ways that they haven't been yet over the last six, seven weeks. Has it been six, seven weeks? Whatever it's been, a month? They're going to get tested.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
They're going to have to defend more actions. They're going to have to adjust more on the fly. Maybe not the highest individual offensive threats that they'll have faced, but collectively, I think this is a bigger challenge for them.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Like you and I aren't doctors or trainers, but like a guy goes out with a grade two hamstring strain trying to play through it. And you could see a couple of times where You know, he came down and immediately rubbed it or you could just see how much it was limiting him and how awkwardly he was moving.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Oh, for sure. I think I'm very curious to see both the matchups against Towns and then how Towns responds. I mean, he did. There were moments where it looked like Towns couldn't handle like the, you know, Tobias Harris on him, you know, smaller ish matchup in the first round. Yeah. Towns' shooting efficiency, both from three and from two, are down markedly from the regular season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
His assists are down. I think Towns has quietly had just a solid, but not spectacular.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Yeah. I mean, this is his moment, right? This is the point of the exercise for the Knicks. There were a lot of things that went into the deal for Towns, not least of which is that they had lost Hartenstein. And Mitchell Robinson, they knew they were going to be without for months, as they were. And they didn't know what he'd be like when he came back. They needed...
The Zach Lowe Show
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uh a center they needed somebody to fill in the gap the opportunity was there um and towns is a more skilled player than than julius randall like all of that fine uh doesn't really matter what the rationale was now is the moment and this time last year we were talking a lot about like okay like towns is on this stage for the first time in minnesota well different stage in in new york i think um
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He's really had a nice season. Knicks fans are behind him. This series is going to test him again. I don't want to keep going back to the referendum word, but this is the point of the exercise. This is why you went out and got him, to be a little bit more dynamic, to give Jalen Brunson an outlet, a co-star, somebody else who can carry the load at times.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
There's nobody else really, I think there's nobody else on this roster who's really going to initiate offense. And you mentioned it, like, you know, Tibbs' rotation is, you know, barely six. We have more than enough to win. The game will tell you what to do. He actually smiled the other night after they finished off the Celtics. He actually made a joke.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He's a man about town. Build a statue now. Build a statue now. No, I mean, listen, like the Tibbs era, no matter what happens next, is already an incredible success. Despite the fact that at any given moment, there's about like a 40%, 50% even faction of Knicks fans that are ready to throw Tibbs overboard for like...
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I mean, you could hear the hand ringing from a mile away the other night where they're up by 30 or whatever in the fourth quarter and the starters are all still in. It drives Knicks fans crazy, but I mean, you can't argue with the results. I agree with you in the large principle here, which is that we know... At some point, physics and physiology do matter. Minutes overall do matter.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Fatigue is a thing. Fatigue can lead to soft tissue injuries. You used the phrase, as a bill come due. This is a series where I think that's looming. Jalen Brunson has turned that same ankle, I think, 15 times just since the playoffs began, by the way. And it never seems to affect him. It's always this moment where it's like, oh my gosh, is he okay? Is he going to be able to... He disappears.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Yeah. Um, I just, I mean, you know, I'll, but all the respect and all the credit in the world, Darren Gordon for even trying a lot of guys would have just said, well, that's it. And I can't take a chance of like, you know, ripping my hamstring to shreds. I'm just done. Uh, But, like, I think we know this about Aaron Gordon by now. Like, that guy is, like, a true pro, a lot of pride.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
He comes back with a different pair of shoes on and then makes his next seven shots in a row. But I do think this is... This is that moment where you wonder about their resilience or their physical ability to continue.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I am. I am. I am so on the fence on this one. This is a true toss up series. Um, I absolutely could see the Pacers winning this series. As we established earlier, they are not afraid of any venue, any stage. They can win on the road. They can beat the Knicks at the Garden. The Knicks are in such a great groove right now, and they just knocked out the defending champions, for God's sake.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
It's hard to bet against them. This series should go seven. By everything that is right in the world, it should go seven. And if it goes down to the final seconds of game seven or even an overtime game seven, it would be absolutely appropriate. They're that close. Nixon seven, I think.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I could see the Pacers winning it, but if I have to pick, I'll just lean toward the team with the home court advantage.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I'm going with the Knicks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Is this to make it up to your grade school chums who you were taunting about Ewing missing the finger roll? Forget them. Forget them. I don't talk to those people anymore. Is this just decades of pent-up guilt, Zach? I think this is what's happening.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Nobody would have blamed him if he didn't play. Like, I'm not saying, like, you know, that would put him in a bad light at all. But the fact that he gutted it out, tried to give them whatever he could, I think is amazing. I mean, the guy's been through, like, what a year. Obviously, you know, he lost his brother in the offseason last year. That was awful.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Bruce has caught enough strays in the last few days. I don't think you need to be bringing him into this.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I'm just utterly fascinated, Zach, by this. We're going to talk ad nauseum for the next several weeks about seven champions in seven years in this age of parity in the NBA. All right, cool, fine. There's all kinds of things that have happened to all these champions, but nobody's been in this position.
The Zach Lowe Show
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The Celtics have the most fascinating situation in the entire league right now and maybe the most complex set of decisions ever. and just big picture than certainly any of the defending champs in recent years, right? Like the Warriors in 2019, there's no decisions to make.
The Zach Lowe Show
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He was playing with a heavy heart all season. he had just an incredible playoff run with the, the, the, the dunk was 0.0001. Whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Durant is leaving, and he tore his Achilles, and Klay is out, and you just got to weather the storm for a little bit and hope to get it back. The Lakers in 2020 decided to turn over their entire supporting cast for reasons we'll never understand. They never recovered. The Bucs in 2021. Well, they did recover. They have Luka now. Okay, fair. Didn't recover up until now. Maybe they'll recover.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Unbelievable. Still unbelievable. The Bucs win it in 2021. Sporting cast around Giannis just erodes. They've never recovered. It's hard to... How have the Suns done since that finals? Um... Warriors in 2022, outlier championship, haven't come close since, but amazing that they got back. Nuggets in 2023, we talked about undone by free agency, by new rules, everything else.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And now the Celtics, they might not have gotten back anyway. Whether Tatum goes down or not, they were probably losing that game. Who knows? Maybe they would have come back in the series. But
The Zach Lowe Show
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they already were facing this $500 million bill, this combination of payroll and luxury taxes, and then all the second apron shit that comes with it, and an ownership change, and questions about whether or not the new owners would be as committed as what Grosbeck's group has been, and he'll still be in charge for a bit. But how committed were they?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, now, you win a championship, you go back to back, fuck it, we're keeping everybody. You lose in the second round, and your best player is now almost certainly missing all of next season. It's a different set of variables, of decision points, of considerations than you could possibly have imagined in your worst nightmares. And...
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I think long-term you, you, you want Tatum and Brown to be together, right? Whatever Tatum comes back, you want Jalen Brown there. Almost certainly. And Jalen Brown was awesome in extending this series and not so awesome in the, in the, in the elimination game. And I can see by the look on your face, you're already questioning whether or not, but yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
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What are they next season is if you brought back just, you know, the key is, is Derek White. Awesome. Third guy, fourth guy, whatever. Can Derek White be your co-star to Jalen Brown? For a season? We've got this weird mystery illness thing with Porzingis. It was interesting listening to him post-game the other night. He's absolutely baffled and troubled by this, and he just didn't have any energy.
The Zach Lowe Show
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What are they? And not, what are they next season? What are they a year and a half from now? And the decisions they have to make both financially and in terms of personnel and in trying to create something sustainable, presumably around Tatum, presumably around Tatum and Brown, but question mark. I just think it's absolutely fascinating.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Zach, I do not think we've ever seen a situation quite like this. It's unique in a lot of awful ways, but not only because of Tatum. It is the financial pressures that they're facing as well.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
It does need a name. Shame on all of us collectively for not coming up with one sooner. I don't understand what happened either, and I don't think I need to understand it, Zach. Like, I'm content with... As somebody who has kind of become very anti-replay, I'm tired of all the replay. I don't think... The goal of the game is to get everything 100% correct all the time.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
We are chasing a perfection that does not exist. Adam Silver, just get over it. Human error exists. Reel back the replays. I don't even like having all the coaches' challenges. But on that play, I'm fine with whatever happened. It's like with point four with Derek Fisher, which I was there for. And there was a lot of after the fact. Oh, and this was in San Antonio.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
No, at a moment like this, in part, you have the luxury of being able to have these conversations. And even the luxury, I would say, I know, like it always looks terrible, new owner, old owner, anybody, when you blow up or start picking apart a championship roster, a recent championship.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But you have the benefit now, if I can even call it that, of everybody knows next season is basically lost, right? I don't know. You run it back with everybody but Jason Tatum, who's hurt, I don't even know what the Celtics are next season. They're a playoff team, but how good of a playoff team?
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But that plus 8.7 number that's going around?
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I'm not pestering them as a top five, but somewhere in that 6, 7, 8 range, maybe through the play-in, sure. Given good health and some luck, they're at least that. I'll give them that much respect. But to your point, and I think the way you framed it is the right way, you have to look out a couple of years. What are their ages then? What are their salaries then?
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
What's the cap sheet look like then? Because nothing matters. Next season... At best, you're a playoff team and not going very far. So it's not about next season. It is about the following season and beyond once Tatum is back and fully healthy and recovered from his Achilles. What do you want to be then? What is your potential then? What does your cap sheet look like then?
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And I think that that means everything is on the table, including Jalen Brown, for sure. Like those conversations have to happen. And Brad Stevens, Mike Zarin, that whole front office, super smart. They've made great moves in Brad's time as GM or president or whatever title he's got. I think they will make smart decisions here, but these are going to be incredibly difficult decisions.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
and complex decisions. Because again, you are not moving on a year-to-year basis right now. You're trying to figure out what is the best version of this team that we could have around Jason Tatum starting in the fall of 2026. most likely, and beyond.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I just think that that's fascinating and difficult and emotionally wrought because if you do decide that our best way forward is to just completely tear this all down around him so that we've got the best possible version a year and a half from now, and that might actually be the smartest way forward. But that's not an easy thing to do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Did the scorekeeper hit the button in time or was there a lull or did somebody else create a lull from when they hit the button? And then it was all this stuff. I don't care. Like the shot happened. It existed. The game was won, whether it was Fish or Aaron Gordon. Yeah.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Right, but you still have the financial element, which you still have to deal with regardless, right? You don't want to be a $500 million payroll, even a $400 million payroll with taxes, if you've concluded we're just good and not championship caliber, right? Sorry to interrupt.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
No. Loved your regaling us with all the lottery room stories from last week when you were on with Bill. That was fantastic. So glad you were there.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Of course. It's all preposterous. I guess my only other parting thought is if the Knicks win this series and make it to the finals, I hope all of your grade school chums call to taunt you.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
But for his season to have to go to end that way, for the Nuggets season to have to end that way, really a shame and perhaps not unexpected. We've all been talking about for all season and for the last two years, the just slow erosion of the Denver Nuggets rotation since the championship, right? You lose Bruce Brown and Jeff Green.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Then you lose KCP, which was one that, like the first two, you couldn't help because of cap issues. The KCP one, you could help. You chose to let him walk away. We had Calvin Booth talking about how much he loved the youth they had drafted and how much they needed to play them. That's the source of a lot of the tension between him and Michael Malone. They're both gone.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
I mean, the Nuggets have just gone through almost everything you could imagine, but Since the championship, it's just been this slow erosion to the point where when you are the veteran team with championship experience, but with so few capable bodies left against one of the deepest young teams we've ever seen at this stage of the playoffs in the Thunder, this felt sort of inevitable.
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Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
And it's incredible that it got to a game seven at all. And I hope the takeaway... I don't think it will be, but I would hope to take away in Denver, whether it's fans, front office or anybody else is not going to be, well, you know, hey, we got to a game seven. Therefore, we're still that close. Like, I don't think anybody would think that way, but you definitely can't.
The Zach Lowe Show
Thunder Dominate Game 7, and the Conference Finals Are Set. Full Previews, Plus a Look at Uncertain Offseasons With Howard Beck.
Good morning, Zach. You failed to mention it was also the Jalen Williams game. The J-dub game, lest we get confused. We need a rule in the NBA that you can no longer have two guys with the exact same name on the same roster. It's too confusing.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It doesn't seem like a Spurs-y thing to do. My initial sort of nudges have been met with like, it seems pretty hasty. But you're right to think about Castle because I think that's the name that ends up being the centerpiece of any theoretical. And boy, is this like wildly five steps ahead theoretical. But like Vassell. is bye-bye. The picks are bye-bye.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Whatever other salary you need to put in is bye-bye. You want to hang on to Fox. You want to hang on, obviously, to Wimby Nama. And then it just becomes, is Castle semi-expendable, whatever. And that would be like, if you got Cooper Flagg and Stephon Castle and whatever else for Giannis, you're in a great spot. That's not bad.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
if you put the Nerf gun to my head right now, I'm saying the Spurs don't do it and they play the long game, but who knows the other team? Well, my, my other team was your beloved former hometown, Dallas Mavericks. Sure.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
If they win the lottery, don't they have to, you know, like we're already sort of, we're already sort of, you know, down this Kyrie, Kyrie's injury messes everything up though, you know, but you, you've really, you know, gone all in for this short window. Well, I mean, I think they would be suicidal to do something like that.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
But if you're following, I mean, they've already done something that I would consider not necessarily in their best interest in a massive way. I don't know. Just throwing it out there. It seems dumb to me. But, you know, look, once you trade Luca, it's like, I don't know what like anything's possible.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
By the way, did I see that the mayor of Dallas chimed in with an op-ed over the weekend or something?
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It's unbelievable. And he had like I saw snippets of it somewhere. He had like stuff about in the era of three point shooting and offensive.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
How are you?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
When Mavs fans even I mean, they would be happy, but there would also be a part of them that like, really, you're going to bail out this team in this front office like this basketball gods like that. We're happy like we're getting Cooper flag and whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
But like anyway, so that brings me to my next fun question before we get to the actual basketball games with the hoops and the nets and the players that actually matter. Who is the OK? We talked about basketball gods and lottery gods. Dallas, maybe you've already made your case. I asked you, who is the least deserving?
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
If deserves got anything to do with it, which it doesn't, who would make you the maddest if they won the lottery? Is it Dallas? Did you already answer the question?
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
My my candidates for that. I didn't think about Charlotte because it just feels like they haven't won a playoff series. What is it since 2003? Yeah. I mean, it's it's boy, boy.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
My teams on that list were Chicago, who just should not be rewarded for trying to be 41 and 41 every year. No. And I just, I can't, I can't deal. The two craziest scenarios are San Antonio for obvious reasons. I can't deal with Philadelphia. I just, I can't do it. I can't do it. It's too crazy. Like what's Embiid's health status? Paul, your podcast P is going to shoot up the rankings.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
The last time you had the number one pick, you chose Markel Fultz. It was like, well, maybe not the last. I can't remember the order of Fultz, Simmons, whatever. Your number one picks have not gone well. I just, now they are obviously the best subplot of the lottery because if they don't get into the top six, they lose their pick to Oklahoma City, another asset potentially in the Thunder's quiver.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
So those are my least deserving. Do you have a most deserving pick? I think most... Or like most just like I would feel like a nice warm feeling in my belly.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Yeah, it's going to be Giannis' talk over turkey sandwiches and a little bit of pasta salad maybe they bring in there sometimes. It's not a terrible spread. There will be coffee. If you want coffee at 6 p.m., you can have some coffee. Then we'll all watch together as someone gets their heart broken on live television and someone is elated.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
we didn't bring up Houston in our, would you trade the number one pick for Giannis? Is that because in my mind, they just have enough other stuff where you don't have to do that. But did, was that your thought process as well? I mean, between all their young guys and all their other picks, like I'm holding onto that and trying to have my cake and eat it too.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And then have an ice cream Sunday and every afterwards.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Look, they've already gone totally against the grain. and made this double center tag team thing, Bash Brothers, a thing. Let's just go like Giannis, Adams, Shingun, Thompson, Tari Eason, and just beat the hell out of everybody and get 9 million offensive rebounds. Let's go.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
He can't really dribble, but can he play point guard on a team of just all centers and mean, whatever Ahmed Thompson is, mean people. Okay, my most fun. Would be Portland, just because I like the friskiness of the last two, three months of the season. I like it. Let's you know, they're a great fan base. Yeah. Love the uniforms. Just this, you know, and I do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I have to say, and this is going to make Utah fans mad because they're going to say, why not us? There's a big part of me that's like, can we save the Wizards? Can we just give the Wizards a nice thing? Because they don't... Jordan Poole isn't a nice thing? He's a thing. I mean, Saar I thought was fine. I'm higher on... I think Saar's going to be good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Look, we talked about this after the Dame injury two weeks ago, exactly. And it's just a matter of Giannis and the Bucs, the Bucs and Giannis, whatever order it happens in. just both coming to grips with the fact that it's over. He cannot win big, big, big in the near to medium term future with the Milwaukee Bucks. And the only question that matters is, does he care?
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
If that's the grand prize of the great post-Bradley Beal tanking extravaganza... Yeah. I don't think that's going to be enough to get you where you want to be without just like a plus plus asset management. And by the way, whatever years later, they killed the Bradley Beal deal. I mean, it was a good deal for them right away. And it was all swap based and stuff. And it was all and obviously CP.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It is aged so well, like to have gotten anything. Yes. Let alone swaps that look valuable now is such a home run. So that said, though, they also waited a year or two too late. I'm talking about this new front office, the new regime who inherited this situation, made chicken salad out of you-know-what. I don't know. Just give the Wizards something.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
George was solid. I think Bob Carrington is going to be something. Yeah. You know, I like his defense. We'll see what he becomes on offense. He's got he's got certainly got a lot of pop to his offensive game. Koulibaly got off to an awesome start and sort of tailed off, but he showed enough signs where I'm like, okay, he's very young, I'm interested. So those are my teams. Okay, enough lottery.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They gagged away game one and game three of this series. And to come back on 36 hours notice from an overtime loss when they were up by three with the ball and 45 seconds left in regulation. Get out to a lead in Denver. and then kind of begin unraveling with just aimless offensive possessions, looked a little confused against Denver's zone.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Denver played 60 possessions of zone yesterday, according to Second Spectrum. Their previous high for the season was 27. So they're all in on zone, which actually kind of bizarrely makes me a little bit optimistic about the Thunder's chances because it feels like Denver has cycled through a lot of answers on defense. The Thunder have seen all of them now and are beginning to adapt.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And in particular, I mean, almost to a fault, Whenever Denver's in man-to-man defense, Shea's eyes light up. Like, bring me Jokic on a pick and roll. And it almost cost them late in game four when he went late yesterday where he went way too early twice in a row, missed the three. It's like, dude, settle down. You're up seven, you're up five, whatever you are. Missed the three.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Chet Holmgren bailed that out with an offensive rebound. Around Jamal Murray, who is able to guard Chet Holmgren in crunch time of game three and game four with minimal punishment other than that, and then almost had a turnover with like a minute 15 left in the game driving. Anyway, to build the lead, kind of meltdown, missed threes, turnovers, fall down.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
But would they go down by seven, eight at the most, something like that in the third quarter?
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
and then come back behind eight combined threes from Caruso, Wallace, and just massive Aaron Wiggins minutes, who's kind of been an iffy so far in this series, and hold the fort down the stretch in a game in which Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren combined for, I think, 18 points and didn't bring much to the table. Lou Dort played 19 minutes and took 10 threes.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It's kind of like you're a little thirsty, like you're not that good of a shooter. Lou Dort dial it back a little bit to come back and rally and hold on. That is just a massive gut check. We are here now. offense isn't going great. We got some imperfections on our team. Our secondary stars have been up and down. Jalen Williams is awesome in game three, not so much in game four. Chet has been
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
If he cares, do the Bucks care? They surely see the writing on the wall. They surely know in some part of their soul what would be ideal for their long-term situation, even though it's going to be tricky to get any of their own picks back and thus tricky to tank in a time when they should tank. Even if they trade Giannis, that's going to be tricky. And then there's just a conversation to be had.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
A little iffy the entire series. But you know what? There's something just throwback about people who want defense and, oh, nobody plays defense in the modern NBA. It's all offensive efficiency and threes. The Thunder are like, look, defense travels. Defense is an every game thing. The threes may not fall.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
We are going to lock your ass down every single game and make every possession difficult for you. They have a smart game plan. That was maybe the first – game of the playoffs where I felt like it's go time now. We're into serious NBA playoff time. That was an awesome win.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
He wants the kill shot so badly at the end of these games. Those threes were really emblematic of that. Now, he was, to your point, He was one for eight in the fourth quarter of game three. Yeah. Didn't take a shot in overtime. I think it looked like he took a shot. It was recorded as like a steal or something when you got stripped on the way up.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And he was struggling in the fourth quarter of game four. And then he had three baskets in like a two and a half minute span from like the five minute mark to the two minute mark before he kind of got a little over eager again. But those three baskets, it's just, it's, those are the shots that he's been making all year.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
He's not getting nearly as many of the, you know, some might call it grifting, leaning, flailing foul calls that like many, many players, he won't get as many shots. in the playoffs as he does in the regular season, but he made those shots and he needed those shots. They needed him to make those shots. Denver has very clearly said, zone, man, whatever. And sometimes they've switched up.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
What's also fun about this series, and I know you love this too, these teams are digging deep into the X's and O's game plan. They're doing stuff for one possession randomly. Like, okay, we're going to put, you know, Lou Dort on Jokic for one possession and just sort of confuse them and then go back to your base defense.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They are, it's, it's so they're like in the deep, deep depths of the playbook. Um, but I don't, I forgot what I was going to say about that. But anyway, it was like, he made some big shots. They need, Oh, they're just, they're very clearly like, they're just not going to let Shay get easy shots, whether it's man, whether it's zone, wherever he is on the floor.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Do we care? Do you care? Are you OK with this? Am I OK with that? Do I demand this? Do I demand that? This is a pretty big trickle out there that we are heading in that direction. It's lottery day. The lottery could, you know, it's going to be interesting. Like, does Houston move in to the top four? They have the Phoenix pick. Do the Spurs move into the top four? Just keep their two picks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And I like him better in the middle of the Florida and on the wing. just flooding everything toward him and saying, you're just not going to get comfortable one-on-one step back shots unless, and he's found some early in the shot clock before they can set their defense. But, but like, we're just going to make you pass to all these other dudes who we don't believe in their three point shot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And yeah, Enough of the bench dudes came through, admittedly, against the zone. But they're making it really hard for Shea.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
What defense is this zone that now you're just it's just a straight trap with kind of his own behind. It just it morphs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Shea's averaging 27 and a half a game in the series, 47% from the field, four of 19 on threes, a 29 to six assist to turnover ratio. That's Oklahoma City. They are plus 20 or I guess minus 20 in turnovers. They have 20 fewer turnovers. Then Denver. Crazy. J-Dub is averaging 19 a game on 37% shooting, 5 of 24 on threes. Had a great game three. Yeah. Almost saved their asses.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I give him some leeway. Let's talk about Chet. My first podcast for Spotify, The Ringer, I was a guest on the Bill Simmons podcast. You may have heard of him. And we did a draft of the 25 most intriguing players for the last 20 games plus playoffs of the season. And I cheated right on pick number one. I picked Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren as one player.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
because they were not ready for the moment against Dallas in the second round last year. And they're going to have to be ready because this Denver team is as tough as it gets. Christian Brown and Aaron Gordon, it's just like one balls to the wall play after another. Kudos to, and Jokic is Jokic and Murray is Murray.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
That was the second quarter where – by the way, how about 17-8 after the first quarter? Nuts. But that was the second quarter, and that's what I love about the playoffs. Nothing's working. You're facing the best defense in the NBA. All your pretty stuff, not working. Murray Jokic two man game. They have a strategy for that. It's kind of taken a lot of what Jokic likes to do away. Jokic post-ups.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They have their own pick in Atlanta's pick. Would they dare dip their toe into the honest waters? Who the hell knows what else could happen? But but the lottery could could infringe on this as well. I mean, I don't know. I was going to ask you just first reaction.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They're making it complicated. He has a negative assist to turnover ratio in the series. 21 assists, 23 turnovers. The pretty stuff ain't working. How are you going to score? And Christian Brown's like, I'm just going to throw myself at the rim really fast and get some free throws. And like, that's what makes the playoffs awesome. You got to dig deep and win ugly and win grimy. Chet,
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
13 points a game in the series, 40% shooting three of 15 on threes. I mentioned that, um, they were able to put Jamal Murray on him down the stretch of game three, which allowed Michael Porter jr. To hide on Lou door, which is a much more comfortable matchup for him. And Chet couldn't punish Jamal Murray. No, um, Chet got benched at the beginning of overtime in Game 3 for Alex Caruso.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Chet had another eh game yesterday. For the series, they have a 108 offensive rating with Chet on the floor, 104 defensive rating, plus 5. Obviously skewed by the huge blowout. All these numbers are skewed by the huge thunder blowout win. Without Chet, 116 offensive rating, 94 defensive rating, plus 32. The Chet Hartenstein is minus six in 65 minutes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And it's just been so interesting to watch Mark Dagnall try to figure out, what do I care about in this series? And so many of those decisions pivot around Chet Holmgren and what he can and can't do. So he decided after game one, where I thought, frankly, the Thunder overthought a lot of stuff in game one, including matchups and fouling at the end of the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
much like I thought Cleveland overthought a lot of game, one of their series. They made a clear choice. Like we're just almost never going to play Chet as the only big man on the floor. When Jokic is on the court, we thought we might get an offensive benefit out of that. And it turns out the drawbacks on defense and size and rebounding outweigh whatever offensive benefit he's able to provide.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And not only that, putting him on Aaron Gordon after game one, which is where I thought he belonged, allows them to sort of mimic the Timberwolves strategy of double big, put your best shot blocker, not on Jokic, but on the back line. That becomes much harder to do when Denver has all its best shooters on the floor or whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I'm guessing your first reaction is like, OK, this is like totally tracks with the NBA offseason calendar, like big news event happening today. Cooper flag lottery, a really a really pretty strong top five, six in the draft. Big news, semi-scoop, moving the football a little bit down the field, and now we all talk about it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
But when they take Chet out, they can't really mimic that strategy in any possible way. And so you can see... But he's doing very little on offense. Like, it's become... It's become kind of an offense-defense tradeoff so far for the Thunder that is starker than I think they anticipated it would be, starker than I anticipated it would be.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And I'm not really sure what the answer is other than he's just got to make some jump shots because you're only going to get so many of those Hartenstein to Holmgren lobs against Denver's own defense. It's been a very strange series for Chet so far. Defensively, he's awesome. He's a beast. I offensively, like he just hasn't provided that much.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And and why so much pivots around him defensively is, you know, the Murray Jokic two man game has been the two man game in the NBA for years now. It's the championship two man game. And the Thunder have a very clear strategy for defending it, which I think is very smart, which is Jamal Murray, go ahead and drive. Unless it's an emergency, we are not helping off Jokic.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Our big is just going to stay on Jokic. We're going to let you drive because you play so many non-shooters around that play that that people are going to be meeting you in and around the paint from Russell Westbrook, from Christian Brown, who's knocked down enough shots, from Aaron Gordon, who is just a knockdown shooter at this point, I guess.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It's just we've made the full transition to he's a plus, plus, plus shooter. But we're just not giving Jokic the pocket pass. He's not doing it. And I think that's the proper way to play it. It's much... That strategy does not hold up as well without Holmgren on Aaron Gordon on the back line. Even when he's stuck on Michael Porter Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
because that's a matchup on the other end, it doesn't really work. It only works when they have that alignment in. And so if he gets played, if his minutes dwindle, I'm just interested to see how that works. does that Murray-Jokic two-man game begin to sort of puncture them a little more? And you see, like Murray, to his credit, is driving hard at those backline help defenders and drawing fouls.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
He tried to dunk on Chet in game three. He pulled up for a couple long twos before the help could get there. He knows what to do, but they are just selling out on Jokic who's not getting the ball in the middle of the floor with a rotating defense around him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Yeah, you know, Josh Giddey had a nice last 40 games for the Bulls. Like he's a very, he's a good basketball player. Put up numbers, shot 38% from three this year, which was the big weakness that got him played off the court in the playoffs last year, which we were all talking about for like 18 months in advance. And the Thunder would be like, no, it's fine. We're all good. It's going to be great.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Stop talking about Josh Giddey trades. It's not going to happen. And you know, I said at the time of that trade, there are going to be weeks, months, when Josh Giddey puts up like 20, 10, and 10. And it's going to be like, wow, that was actually kind of a good trade for the Bulls. This is why it was always also a good trade for the Thunder.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Maybe it ends up being a good trade for the Bulls despite getting no draft picks back, et cetera. Maybe, who knows? But they traded a guy who could not play for them in the playoffs for a guy who is now essential and often closing games for them in the playoffs. And his ability to guard up in size, Giddy is a minus defender and Caruso is a plus, plus, plus.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I'm just going to be all up in your jersey and you're not going to be able to dribble around me. Defender. Okay. Game five, back in Oklahoma City. Crowd's going to be crazy. Give me something you are anticipating, looking for, whatever, as we move to the... Pivotal game five.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Joe, hear it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I just think this is a grimy, ugly, you got to dig so deep in every possible way series. It's awesome. And like, just a small example, Jokic pick and roll ball handling is, He ran 15 pick and rolls in games three and four each, which is tied for the third most in any game this season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And he ran the most Murray, Jokic-Murray inverted pick and rolls Eddie did in any game this season in each of the last two. Same amount in each, five each, I think. That's just like they got to stretch the offense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They have to access every nook and cranny of their offense and every nook and cranny of the most creative and maybe most diverse offensive player on planet Earth's game just to scrounge 89 points against the Thunder, who, again, could have won game one, could have won game three. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Chance, it's kind of like they probably should have won one of those two games and and and they'd be up three one, but they are not. And we're getting a game five. And I hope we get I hope we get seven.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Jokic is so, like... Every time like Shea or pretty much any player starts a game, a big playoff game, like one of eight from the field, the chirping starts like you can see. I can feel it coming out of my computer like, oh, this is your MVP. One of eight. He's choking again. Jokic starts a game one of eight and like nobody cares. He's just earns.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
such a benefit of the doubt in terms of his all-around contributions. He'll get it back. He's shooting 39% for the series. He's only averaging five assists a game, which is attributed to their defense. They're taking away the easiest stuff. And by the way, I'm not saying that he gets held to a softer, less fair, whatever standard. He has earned that benefit of the doubt.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
When he's one for eight, everything is still orbiting him. The team is dead without him. Okay. Speaking of dead, Cleveland, Indiana. I blacked out for like five minutes and Miles Turner scored 9000 points as Jared Allen was just kind of waving at him from a long distance away. You want to shoot again?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
So I rewatched this morning all of Cleveland's first half turnovers. It's like I remember there's like a lot of ugly turnovers in the first half. Again, Garland doesn't have his balance, his whatever. There are a couple like that. And then there are just like, Jared Allen throws the ball into the crowd.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
There are eight, I'm just exaggerating, but I mean, how many interior passes can they throw at the feet of a seven-foot player and expect that guy to catch it in the coffin corner almost and do anything with it? Illegal screens of all varieties. A McConnell that the cameras didn't even catch. A McConnell backcourt steal that somehow happened.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Just a complete no-show by the Cavs, who are banged up and injured and whatever. But they went into a hostile environment after winning game three and just did not show up for the game. I mean, they got completely punked from the beginning of the game by a Pacers team who is just really goddamn good. Beautifully constructed and hard to guard.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
An incredibly high floor because of how good their offense is. And a high ceiling when they start hitting shots like this. And by the way, kind of, you know, for fans who want like... You know, there's always complaints sometimes about lack of stylistic diversity in the NBA. It's all threes and dunks and blah, blah. The Pacers are the team for you. This is a shot making team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They don't take a lot of threes and they don't take a lot of shots at the rim. They take a crap ton of mid range shots and floaters and long twos and all year. And last year, too, like they clean in the glass, our buddy Ben Folk. They have expected field goal percentage based on where your shots come from, right? Threes, you get extra stuff for it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
The Pacers in the regular season, 24th in that metric. Actual effective field goal percentage, fifth. They're just a great shot-making team across the board. They run. They're incredibly unselfish. And... even when it seems like they're passing just for the sake of passing, that stuff just gets heads turning and bodies moving. And that all flows from Halliburton.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I missed this. I skimmed the bottom half of it. What is the quote?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
The Halliburton mindset has inculcated its way into the brain of every player on the team. And the ball just flies. Like if you're sick of Maury Ball or whatever you deem the stylistic homogeneity of the NBA, watch the Pacers. And by the way, to your point earlier, don't throw it to the big guys. Go to the big guys on switches. And Miles Turner, I had a little ode to him last week.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
He had more post-ups against guards, again, in what was a non-competitive game four. He has evolved into... This is the best... This is... He could not have become a better offensive player than this. This is the absolute ceiling of Myles Turner. He's inside. He's outside.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And because they have Halliburton and other good supplementary playmakers, he has to do almost no hard passing or playmaking of any kind, which has never been his strong suit. He has just become an awesome offensive player. You got to just give it to the Pacers. They've been awesome. But that was an alarming...
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
disgusting no-show by the Cavs, who, if they lose this series, we talked about it earlier, used to run it back with this group. By the way, they're over $200 million in committed salaries for next season. They're right at the first apron already, so I don't even know what the pivot would be. It has to be a win-now pivot. They can't just trade whoever for draft picks.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And by the way, Ty Jerome, just any time you want to just wake up in this series and make a freaking shot, he is shooting... I wrote it down somewhere. I don't know. It's just a 12 of 45. 12 of 45. 10 of 32 on twos.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Hey, man, when he's rolling, he will tell you all about it. No doubt. Tell you all about it. And he's not talking about anything right now because he's not rolling. By the way, like... I think, you know, who really cares, but I think he's costing himself some money.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And I think given the Cavs cap situation, I just think if he doesn't rebound and play better in what remains of their season, like I think they just would say it was a great experience. He played great for us. Got some six man of the year votes. We can't bring you back.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
When did that happen? Is that an old podcast or is that like out today? Is this all coordinated?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Not regular season. They...
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Okay. Well, props to Thanasis, who up until now has just been talking shit to everybody from the first row in Milwaukee and annoying everybody and exchanging some fun banter. Well, you'd hit the nail on the head. I mean, this is the dilemma for every team, right? That every time a superstar gets traded, we talked about it with Durant. Yep. Is you got to go. This is a win now situation.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I can pinpoint exactly when it's like the Ralph Wiggum thing, like I pinpoint exactly when his heart broke and snapped into on live TV. in the second quarter, Miles Turner was at the free throw line, missed like four and a half minutes left in the game or so in the quarter. And got his own rebound. And it wasn't a lane violation. The biggest surprise of the whole game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Another free throw rebound for the Pacers. And it was actually legal. And they ended up scoring. I can't remember what. Cleveland disintegrating calls timeout. They come out of the timeout. And they run something. I don't know what it was supposed to be. It was supposed to be like a Mitchell-Mobley handoff into something. Mobley hands the ball to Mitchell.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
who's gutting it out and doing everything he can and throwing himself at the rim to get free throws and all that stuff. He's been sensational until last night when no one was sensational. And he comes off, he takes a couple dribbles, and he's like, hey, Evan Mobley, aren't you supposed to come back up here and set a screen for me? And Evan Mobley's drifting over there like, I don't know, maybe?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And then Max Strews is like, well, maybe I'll come set a screen because nothing's happening. Then they both came up and set a screen at the same time from different sides. That's fine. John Mitchell took one dribble, picked up his dribble, and was like, oh. This is just kind of going badly for an out-of-time outplay. Who's around? Oh, Isaac Okoro, you're around.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And let me tell you, Rob Mahoney, you know an after-time outplay has not gone well when it results in an Isaac Okoro grenade drive into nothing and a layup off the backboard. And at that point, I was like, they are so out of sorts and so out of whatever rhythm that they were in that... like they're just lost as a team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
that's a good one. That's always a good sign. It's they also like another, I don't know when, I don't remember when this happened, but McConnell on, I think I'm a Connell Turner pick and roll got the easiest layup you will ever see in a just stagnant half court set in an NBA playoff game. Like Dean Wade was on him and Jared Allen was guarding the screen. I think, and Jared Allen did nothing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And Dean Wade did nothing. And TJ McConnell just dribbled down the middle of the floor and no one did anything.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It honestly looked like a practice where the coaches like blew a whistle to stop the drill halfway through. And the guy just kept going to lay the ball in for fun. Like just like what is happening? And by the way, I don't know what the answers are for Cleveland, but I mentioned this on Twitter last night. Jared Allen sat for and Jared Allen was bad last night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
he sat for like a million minutes as the game was getting out of hand. And a persistent question I've had about the Cavs all year long is, should they just play their starters more?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Like, are they over, like this, all this minute, and like, I've had a lot of people from around the league, coaches, whatever, reach out and be like, this is like Mike Budenholzer 2.0 of like your cute regular season rotations. Like, you gotta tighten it up a little bit in the playoffs. And I don't know if that's schadenfreude or whatever, but I have all year said like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Should they just play Mobley and Allen together more? I know they want shooting and spacing, but they are two of their four or five best players. They never play the lineup with Hunter at the three with the rest of their starters. They almost never play it, partly because Strews is really good. And I have been thinking a lot about that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I'm not like, look, that doesn't change a gazillion point loss. It doesn't change the injuries. It doesn't change the whatever. But I have been thinking about it all year and more so as Jerome craps the bed, Okoro craps the bed. Merrill either gets open and makes threes or doesn't and holds up OK on defense. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Like, yeah, cool. Charlotte gets the number one pick and trades LaMelo ball in a million picks for Giannis. Like, what is that good? Is that doing Giannis? Nothing. So lottery or no lottery. I think we can like outline the general landscape of teams. And by the way, not only does the lottery matter.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I mean, I don't know It's going to be, if they lose at home and it's a 4-1, 4-2, whatever, they lose the series in any kind of dispiriting way. It's going to be very tempting to start building fake Darius Garland trades and fake Jared Allen trades. And look, if I'm the Lakers, I'm calling about Jared Allen. Sure. Like, if I'm the Magic, I'm poking around Darius Garland.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I would, and the Cavs payroll situation is what it is, and I don't know sort of what any pivot would be in a win-now trade. Do you break them into two pieces? I don't know. I would be very cautious if I were the Cavs about overreacting too much to give, they only know the health, they know the health stuff inside and out better than we do, but
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I would not do – I would be hesitant to do something really rash with a team that won 64 games and has a lot of good stuff going for it and has a lot of guys that are nicked up now. But I would poke around at least because, you know, if they got punked last night, they got punked by the Knicks two years ago.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They had to gut out an uninspiring series against the Magic last year and then fought the Celtics okay when they had a bunch of injuries. in the second round. It has not been an inspiring three-year playoff run. You could throw the previous two series away and say, well, we made a coaching change. Everything's totally different now. And this has been, you know, first round was great.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
The playoffs matter, and you and I both are absolutely salivating to talk about this delicious Thunder Nuggets series that is now 2-2. And when it looked like the Thunder were reeling in the third quarter of that game before their bench guys bailed them out with zone threes, huge game for those guys. We'll talk about it. Please.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
This round, not so good. I just, it'd be interesting to see how they would respond to something like that. McConnell, man, he's always got those bug eyes. Like he's so intense. Yeah. Does he walk around his house like that? Like making coffee? Like, here's the coffee. Here's a copy with his wife. He's got a newborn kid.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Like, is he, you know, he just like, he has always intense staring at the crowd. Serious face. Be very fun to watch. I thought they did a good job getting Siaka more involved early in the game.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Last night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
How about Rick Carlisle bringing back kind of a full-court press in the NBA? Not really like a crazy full-court press, but like, yeah, we're just going to hound you every time up the court. You're injured? Have fun with this. Have fun with this mean dude tracking you 94 feet up the floor. Rick Carlisle is a Hall of Fame coach. There's not a lot left
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
to second guess or think about with his rotations, with his schematics. Like he, you don't come out of any of these playoffs series being like, well, they should have tried that. They didn't try that. They should have tried that. Just a really, really good coach. Any, oh, the Mather and Hunter thing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Well, he got a flagrant two, which I have to say watching, and maybe there's an angle that they didn't show that I didn't see. I was like, that's a, like, look, if Benedict Mathurin hit me like that, I'd probably double over too. So I don't want to, you know, cast dispersions in any direction. it did not look to the naked eye like a flagrant two to me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And DeAndre Hunter just like the straight up high school shove into the locker. Like I was like, okay, he, okay. Like that dead ball, just boom, not ejected. That whole thing was weird. And Matherin's been an agitator the whole series. And he obviously had the chase down on Hunter that, that caused the injury. So look, I, it was just a strange adjudication by the way, not for nothing. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Lottery aside, the general managers have their annual meeting today at the Combine, and they always talk about the state of the league. And I've been told that a big topic of discussion is going to be the increased physicality of the playoffs. Sure. I think one of the league's points would be like everyone is sort of talking about this, right?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Like the gap between regular season and playoff basketball is just – they're two different sports. Are we letting too much go? Is it dangerous? I've talked about it. And I think the league is aware of that. They know that there are some obvious fouls that are not being called that probably need to be called. But they would also point out free throws are up.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I started kind of just thinking, you know, I'm playing in the podcast, like, if they lose this series... What doors does that suddenly open up for them with the biggest trove of assets in the league?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Like there are more free throws in the playoffs than there were in the regular season. Probably not by – they're not up by as much as the physicality is up or as like the fouls are up. But free throws are up. And you just come into this dilemma of like – How long do we want the games to be? Because game length is up significantly in the playoffs.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
These games are taking two and a half, two hours and 40 minutes, and the NBA has this stated goal of, like, we want our games to be shorter. These games have been really long. The league has definitely took notice of it. It's just I don't know what the right answer is because – Every lever you pull has a counter effect over here. Like call more fouls. Games are three hours long. Call less fouls.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
People get hurt. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe it's like call the right fouls and don't not call obvious. I don't know. But like anyway, that's what's happening today in Chicago.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
All right, coming up on a loaded Zach Lowe show, we got Rob Mahoney on the lottery. The new Giannis News, courtesy of ESPN. Thunder Nuggets developing into a classic. Cavs Pacers, not so much. All things playoffs, Giannis lottery. Coming up with Rob Mahoney, the one and only on the Zach Lowe show. Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show. It's Monday morning. I'm in Chicago. The lottery is tonight.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
We don't want the 82 games to be played like this because players would all be injured by the time the playoffs start. However, the key word in your statement or hyphenated two words or whatever it is, is 82. That's obviously the overarching issue of, oh, it's just too many games. We all know it's too many games. Everybody knows it's too many games.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And yet no one will ever actually dare to propose a real, like, let's actually talk about this. In fact, let's add more games. By the way, congratulations to the Milwaukee Bucks again for winning the Emirates Cup. Like really, you know, really exciting accomplishment that all their fans will remember forever in Las Vegas.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Now we kind of table that for a day because they got an absolutely enormous gut check road win. But OK, just here are the teams. Houston, they're in the lottery today. We know they just lost in the first round. They can talk about continuity all they want. Giannis is Giannis. Brooklyn, like Houston, Brooklyn has a million picks and a million picks that are on other teams, too.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Well, maybe. And by the way, we shouldn't just make this like it's the league's fault and the teams are stubborn. Like the players also, like everyone's caution about this is if you trim 82 to 68 or whatever, the pool of revenue that we split 50-50 shrinks. And that shrinks for the players and it shrinks for everybody else, too.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And I think the bet would just be like long term with this new TV deal, with the expansion fees, with every regular season game, meaning more and maybe ticket prices go up. Like maybe you can kind of recoup that over time if you're patient. But these guys just get to the end of season and they're destroyed. OK, two series resume tonight. I don't want to overdo them because they are resuming soon.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I asked you for one overarching, not overarching, one thing, small, big, whatever, that you will be watching in these two games tonight. And I'm going to start with Boston, New York, which to me is the other most interesting series of the second round. Boston rebounds from two absolutely horrendous losses at home to the Knicks to win and make some threes in game three and sort of
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
maybe stabilize themselves. They have taken 47 more threes than the Knicks through three games, which is the math problem. Maybe this series will be long enough for it to tilt back to Boston's favor. One thing Rob Mahoney is watching for tonight in a massive, like New York wins this game. Boston's got home court. Boston and seven is still sitting there as like a decent possibility outcome.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Winning three in a row against the Knicks is going to be tough.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
So Milwaukee can bet against as many teams as it can, which is their best case scenario if they can't get back any of their own picks. Miami, I've said before, I don't know that Miami has enough to realistically compete with these teams if they all get into it. New York has been mentioned. Talk about the playoffs mattering.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And Brunson, obviously, you know, Boston is, for better or worse, making him work on every defense possession. And I thought late in game four, the Knicks started just giving the Brunson switch instead of hedging it. And he held up OK. And I wonder if we see that a little bit more. It's a dangerous game, but it does bait the Celtics into more one-on-one kind of play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
By the way, we didn't mention this, like Halliburton. He's a target all the time. He's got good days and very bad days on defense. He was decent in game four when they went at him, and he made big plays down the stretch of game one. Just holding your own and not being a pushover is a big, big deal for these kind of players.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
My thing to watch is Boston running actual offense early in the shot clock, which I think they did. They ran more variety of plays, like they ran some split actions that got them good stuff against the Knicks. And they ran...
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I have charted like this pick and roll with 20 on the shot clock, this pick and roll with 20 on the shot clock, catches the Knicks backpedaling, catches them in rotation, gets a Pritchard three, a white three. Just go a little faster, have a little more variety, be a little more unpredictable. I thought they did that. Just a little Josh Hart tidbit for you. 29 ball screens.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
In Game 4, highest number of any game this season. Shows you how much Boston, by putting their bigs on him, has kind of redirected New York's offense away from the cat-picking rules and toward the hard-picking rules. It would also help if Porzingis could make a shot. And obviously the virus is... The virus mystery is continuing. Okay.
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Less exciting just because of the mash unit that is the Warriors without Steph is Minnesota Golden State. Minnesota grinds out game three on the road to take a 2-1 lead. One thing Rob Mahoney is watching for tonight in a game the Warriors pretty much have to win.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
They are currently up 2-1 against the Celtics, who remembered how to shoot and run a functional NBA offense in Game 3. Game 4 is tonight. We'll talk about it later. The Towns thing has been mentioned. Yeah. Unless there's like a three or four team trade, I don't really understand what the point of that is for Milwaukee. But whatever. We'll mention the Knicks, Orange and Blue Skies, et cetera.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Aces, I like that. You sound like a 20 newspaper. Today's issue is aces.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It's been a big few days on a couple of my NBA territories. I have joked for years now about how for a while I was the only one on Julius Randall Hill trying to make fire with sticks. Just me and Nate Jones, the agent, big Julius Randall fan. It was just the two of us just trying to keep warm and forage for food.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
A couple of Froyo stores just opened in Kaminga Keys over the weekend. Hey, is maybe Jonathan Kaminga not horrible? Should maybe you have tried to nurture... I know he's not a Warriors kind of player. He's not. He's not a beautiful game kind of player. He's not. He's not the most intuitive read and react guy. Now you need him. And he's coming through for you. Maybe you should have like not...
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
crapped on him for like months and years. Cause it's kind of like the Warriors are kind of down to six guys that they trust. Pajemski, Heald, Butler, Kaminga, Green, and GP2. Moody is like lost in space. Post gets played off the floor instantaneously. They had a lineup in game three that was like Spencer, Looney, Moody, Peyton, it was like, what's happening right now?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And then like Guy Santos might've been involved. And so it's basically just those six guys that are in your grand bag of centers like Jackson Davis and Looney. And my big thing is like, does Jimmy have more games like game three in him?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Because Jimmy threw everything he had at game three, attacking mismatches, attacking Gobert, attacking DiVincenzo, running a lot of pick and roll, ended with 33 or 35, whatever he ended with. And it just felt like the more he scored and the more he was clearly pouring everything into the game as it was close and nip and tuck,
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
It just felt to me like a game the Warriors had to win because I don't know how many games like that he's got in him at his age and dealing with, you know, recovering from the injuries, recovering from and without Steph. And, you know, like if it's another game, too, where it's like Jimmy has 16 and whatever, like I just think they're drawing dead without a big, big gym.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Celebrities galore. Timothée Chalamet, the whole thing. Lottery relevant. The Spurs. Just throwing it out there. Yep. Wemby and Giannis on the same team, I don't really understand what would happen. I don't... If the space-time continuum would break in two, I don't know. Oklahoma City, I mentioned. Toronto has been mentioned. They've been linked to Giannis before. They were actually my...
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And they're trying like these healed off ball actions and get switches. And like, you know, there's just... It's they need Jimmy to be huge.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I'm expecting 40. Let's go.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Minnesota is such a strange team. You mentioned their propensity for loud mistakes. Sometimes I'm like, in this matchup in particular, they just clear the floor and get out of Anthony Edwards' way and just let him go one-on-one. Because that seems to be kind of working for them, particularly when Gobert is not on the floor and the floor is a little clearer.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Nobody on the Warriors can stay in front of him. And he's obviously sent Kavon Looney into the oblivion dunk zone with one of the just great Ant dunks. Three backdoor cut baskets for Ant in game three. I love an Ant cut.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And very good intuitive reads by Ant on, like, give it up and go. Yeah. This is also the shot clock violation series, like just dueling shot clock violations or end of clock heaves. And a guy we should shout out that we have not mentioned yet. What a playoffs for Jada McDaniels. Yes. I mean, 16 a game, 58% shooting, 40% on threes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And it just seems like every time he attacks a closeout and like doesn't even beat his guy off the dribble, but just kind of dribbles into him and decelerates and uses his height for a six footer. It like goes in every time. And the defense speaks for itself. He guarded Curry. Now he's guarding Butler. Just he's giving you everything you want living up to that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
This Jada McDaniels is worth that contract.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
sneaky favorite like durant theoretical team when the durant trade request first broke just because of the scotty barnes piece of like if i'm if i'm the nets that was the one asset i was gonna go try to get because i toronto at that point still had their veteran guys and you could say like if they get yannis plus and it'll be plus yak and whatever like that could be a real team give me scotty barnes on the pick who knows um do any of these strike your fancy at all
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Awesome stuff from him. We'll see what happens tonight. Rob Mahoney, we got group chat. What are you writing this week? We got anything we can promote? What do we got?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I don't know what Poker Face is other than Natasha Lyonne, isn't it? And it's apparently quite good. People like it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I'm loving your friends and neighbors. And it's giving me, as a resident of a suburban Connecticut, not quite in those stratospheres, but it's giving me ideas if AI just takes over basketball media. It's giving me a good career backup plan. Delightful show.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Just generally, people just have stuff laying around. There's too much money and too much wealth in the world. Let me just take some and find a pawn shop and get on with it. All right, Rob Mahoney, you're the best. Thank you, sir. All right. Thanks for listening.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I'm off to schmooze with NBA executives in Chicago for six hours and then watch some ping pong balls fly around to determine the fate of multiple NBA franchises. My favorite night of the year. And then two more big playoff games tonight. We might be back tomorrow for a special lottery reaction, playoff reaction, mini episode TBD on that. And definitely on Thursday.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
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Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
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The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Who would be most Giannis ready? I mean, you could, you could sit here and nitpick like Giannis and Shingun. Is that a great fit? Giannis and Wimbinyana, is that a great fit? At some point, it's just like, well, it is Giannis and he is a two-time MVP. His aging curve is going to be a little bit more uncertain than superstars of his level because of his shaky jump shot. But it's Giannis.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And like, sometimes you just have to say like, we'll figure those questions out later.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I thought about Memphis because they're clearly at a crossroads, right? They're at a crossroads in multiple different ways. You know, the Jaron Jackson Jr. extension is coming up. Ja had an ass season by his standards. They had an ass finish to the season. Drama, coach fired, coach hired, all that stuff. I just don't. That doesn't feel like a thing to me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Giannis going to the Memphis Grizzlies doesn't feel like a thing to me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Yeah, Memphis has most, if not all of its picks and swaps and other swaps. They've got one of the Phoenix split its soul in 19 pieces swaps of swaps of swaps, the Beal swaps. I thought about it, and again, they could put together a real package. It's just, is that what Milwaukee wants?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Cleveland is a great call, and I had thought about them in general terms, because we're going to talk about that series later, and it's already time to start talking about, is there a pivot here if this goes this way? Because you can chalk it up to Garland's clearly not right with the toe. Mitchell doesn't play the second half after limping off the floor. Right.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
DeAndre Hunter had the thumb injury, missed a game, and then just, you know, WWE shoved Benedict Mather into the floor, somehow didn't get ejected. Great. And then pointed to his head, like, the weakest and lamest, like, I've outsmarted. Like, I've done the Draymond where I'm playing chess. By the way, we're down, like, 20, and we're about to be down 50. But you go off, DeAndre Hunter.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I don't know. We'll talk about them later. That's good. Look, we're going to have all, well, at least a couple of months to do this. We don't need to do the eulogy for the Bucs. It sucks if this is where it ends up, but they got a title. Titles live forever. Whatever. It's look, the lottery is in like seven, eight hours. I'm excited for the lottery.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
We're going to learn more about the trade landscape there. But yeah, I mean, like again, he's tiptoed around this before. He's had a say in coaches they've hired and then that they've been fired. He's had a say in everything. And we'll see. We'll see what happens. I had a poll question. Well, first of all, do you have any further thoughts on this before I hit you with my crazy question?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And the lottery got a whole lot interesting about 30 minutes ago when Shams Charania at ESPN dropped what really sounds like a Giannis trade request soft launch, reporting that he is Open to considering a future that best fits him outside of Milwaukee. Hasn't made any decisions yet. Look, we've been down this road with Giannis before.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Well, and you need to bet against other teams. There's also a scenario that several front office people have floated to me. Say it is Oklahoma. I don't know. Whoever it is. Say you get nine first round picks and swaps. Can you trade some of those to get your own picks back?
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
And the downside of that is the teams that have your picks, which is a conglomeration of like New Orleans, Portland, and Washington are sharing one. They're split all over the place. Those teams are going to extort you because they know exactly what you're doing and they have the leverage of controlling your ability to rebuild. Yeah, Oklahoma City, we'll get to it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
But for me, that question, what are we going to learn about Oklahoma City in the next two, hopefully three games of the series? Because we need seven of this thing. I would love it. Those questions to me swirl around Chet Holmgren. That to me is the pivot point of the series for me, but we'll get to that. Okay, here was my crazy question for you. Today's lottery day.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
We're going to do a little fun lottery stuff. I said to you, is there any team in the lottery that would have to consider trading the number one pick if they win it for Giannis, trading Cooper flag for Giannis? I leave it to you. I think if you're the Spurs, you have to talk about it. They were on my, I had a couple, I had only two teams and they were one. So make the case.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Cause I agree with, I mean, I think you, yeah, you gotta sit down. You gotta have a meeting.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
He's tiptoed to the edge twice at least and tiptoed right back when the Bucs made game-changing trades for Drew Holiday and then Damian Lillard. The difference now, as we have talked about before, Rob Mahoney, is that I don't see a game-changing trade that exists now that Dame has sadly torn his Achilles and is almost 35 years old. Rob Mahoney, waking up early on the West Coast to join us.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
I think absent lottery luck, I mean, I don't know. This doesn't seem like a Spurs thing to do. Like trading the farm for a 31-year-old with a shaky jump shot, even if he's the second or third best player in the league.
The Zach Lowe Show
Cavs on the Ropes, Thunder and Nuggets Trade Blows, and Potential Giannis Trades With Rob Mahoney
Yeah, his mid-range jumper was good this year. Have some respect for mid-range Giannis. I will. I need another season of it to have really deep, deep respect, but I would say, um, look, he's better than mid range Zach. So like, who am I, who am I to talk? Although my jumper is looking good lately. I'm playing a lot with my, playing a lot with my daughter. It's looking pretty good. Um, uh,
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Are we putting Reeves into the top five? Boy, oh boy. Reeves? I mean, I don't even know. Does he belong in the most improved player conversation again? Does Rui? I mean, those two guys have upped their level. And even if the stats don't show it, Rui is a more complete all-around player than he's ever been. And Reeves is...
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You know, I keep hearing like, oh, he can average 23, 24 on a different team. He's already averaging 21 almost on this team. He's just a really, really good offensive player.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I'm not going to overreact to it because of the shooting data that you just posited. And they play again tomorrow night. That's true. I have a lot of faith in the Thunder defense. Obviously, they're number one defense by far in the NBA. You just said big on an island.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And that was what was notable to me about that game is I thought the Lakers had a really good balance in where they targeted their offense. The game before that, they played the Warriors and Luka was kind of invisible in that game because the Warriors play Draymond at center a lot and they switch a lot. They don't have a big guy all the time out there that you can just a big center that Luka can.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
That's who he loves to torture the most, whether it's or getting lob dunks for his pick-and-roll center. The Warriors don't always play that kind of player. And Luka kind of got lost in the game as the Lakers are hunting Steph Curry. And, like, LeBron's been hunting Steph Curry for 10 years. Like, that's just how they play.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Against the Thunder, you have Hartenstein, and he just tortured Hartenstein. It's the same movie we've seen over and over again. And they did go at SGA a little bit. SGA is... not a weak link defender by any stretch. He just happens to be like the smallest guy in a lot of Thunder lineups.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And I thought that sort of balance of where they directed their offense and how Luka was able to participate more than he did against the Warriors was telling and would concern me a little bit if I were the Thunder. And again, I'm looking for like actual signs of concern. Another one would be Cason Wallace, Alex Caruso, Aaron Wiggins,
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
just too small for LeBron and Luca Caruso can put up a fight and he has just incredible hands, but it's gotta be Dort and J Dub on those guys. And, and I think the thunder are smart to sort of see if they're smaller hands, your guys can bother Luca and LeBron. And again, this is a matchup. We may never see this matchup again after tomorrow night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Like this may be totally irrelevant to Oklahoma city and the Lakers playoff prognosis. But they bullied those guys. And the other thing that was notable to me was the Lakers. It reminded me of the Mavericks in the playoffs last year where they really shrunk the floor on the Thunder. They clogged up the paint. They clogged up Shea's drives. Paint was crowded.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Thunder don't have great spacing, especially when they have the two bigs out there, but they have decent spacing. And they did it without really abandoning the Thunder's best three-point shooters. They just are a very smart, rangy defensive team. And you mentioned their – lack of size. When people say that they mean sort of lack of a true center behind Hayes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They, they have a lot of big players on their team. They have a lot of power forward size players on their team. They cover space really in, in really smart ways. They rotate on a string. They don't overcommit one way or under commit the other way. And they kind of had the thunder paused a little bit. And not only that,
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
the Chet Hartenstein double big lineup is one of the biggest wild cards in the league. It's not much of a wild card anymore. It's been going on for a while. And the Lakers were like, we're not afraid of that group. We're not afraid to play small against that group. We'll put wings on both of them. We don't think Chet can hurt us down low. We don't think Hartenstein can hurt us down low.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And I think that double big group, has given Oklahoma City a different ingredient offensively in terms of Hartenstein's short roll, his floater, his passing. I think that's been more important to them offensively than defensively even. And the Lakers were like, yeah, we're not that scared of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I mean, all that said, I'm not going to overreact to it, but all of that was encouraging me if I'm a Lakers fan and a little bit troubling to me if I'm a Thunder fan. And you mentioned Vincent. Lakers have a good nine-man rotation. Their starting five is good. And then off the bench, it's Vincent, Vinnie Smith, Goodwin, who I love. I have a soft spot for Jordan Goodwin. And Vanderbilt.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And I think one of the underrated little subplots of the AD Luca trade is... One of the benefits of not having a so-so shooting center, traditional center, which AD was for them, much to his chagrin apparently, that is so good that he's got to play 35, 40 minutes a game when it matters. Now Hayes can play 8 minutes, 12 minutes, 15 minutes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It allows them to play Vanderbilt a lot more without compromising their spacing fatally. And Vanderbilt's just been good for them. He's a good defense player. He can guard all kinds of different positions. They're becoming a really interesting team. And that game, yeah, it's a shooting luck game. I said the Thunder won it on shot quality, whatever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It had some – like that was a playoff formula kind of game for the Lakers. And it had some things that if I'm a Thunder coach, I'm going back to the former. I'm like, let me see how that looked. Let me see how that looked.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Got my Taurasi shirt on today. Got my Taurasi shirt on today, baby. Paige Beckers and the group did it last night. All right, enough. Enough out of you, Howard. Okay? I'm sorry. We're coming down the stretch of the NBA. I missed damn near the entire regular season. You've got a lot of catching up.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Well, and just, you know, they're not scared of any of these other teams. Like the, the nuggets are disarray is too strong of a word, but it's just been one of those years where it just feels like they may not have enough. It may not all come together health wise, performance wise, their defense is a disaster right now. Clippers will see. Warriors, they're hot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They beat the Lakers over the weekend. These are all good teams, but the Lakers aren't scared of any of them. And yeah, it turns out adding Luka to your team is really good. I don't even want to talk about... I don't want to do the trade thing. I will just say that... Maybe just Patrick Dumont should just shut it down in the media for a while. Just shut it down. Just don't make any more comments.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It's not helping. You're not helping. And by the way, they play in Dallas in two days, I think. This Wednesday, don't they play? Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Trying to get them on the Zach Lowe show on Thursday to recap what what it's going to be like to be in the building in Dallas on Wednesday night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Yeah, and obviously what has unfolded in Dallas with all the injuries, particularly Kyrie's injury, is an absolute worst-case scenario. It's been interesting to watch AD play a lot of four. He's playing a lot of five, too. He's playing a little bit of both because Lively and Gafford have been in and out and on minutes restrictions.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You can see it sometimes, you know, like AD and Lively hooked up on some really nice passing sequences the other day, and the size and the rebounding and the athleticism are just – they jump off the charts. And then there are games where it's like, yeah, he's going to have to take a lot of jump shots. He's going to have to ISO a lot from the left wing because he's a four and the lane is clogged.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And is that really what I want Anthony Davis doing all of the time? I wish we could see the team, right? Like, I think it's an interesting team with Kyrie. We're just not gonna be able to see it. And. Look, this is – who knows if we're going to be able to see it next year. You never know with ACL injuries. Kyrie's at the very least going to miss a huge chunk of next season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the numerous resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 or over and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And this is, again – I mean, I tweeted this weeks ago, months ago. Like, even if you think – that this trade helped your short-term championship equity, which I would vehemently disagree with because you just made the finals. You were just in the finals and you were awesome in this regular season when you had everybody healthy.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
When Luca and Kyrie and they're the same group that got them to the finals last year. We're healthy. But even if you posit that, even if you posit the Mavericks are right about their short-term championship equity, trading up in age by five or six years or whatever it is, makes you uniquely vulnerable to one injury. One injury. And...
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You know how long I've been waiting to make fun of Matt Ishpia's 2016s with trade places with this comment again? I can't stop. The Suns just... Just actively, you know what? Just shoot us. Just put us out of our misery. We're done. We don't even want... Anyway, okay. So it was a wild weekend in the NBA, Howard. And we're going to focus on the Western Conference because it's crazy.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It's like the Nuggets were able to ride out two lost seasons, basically, of Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr. going out or in and out. And just sort of their team was in purgatory for two years. And they were young enough that they were like, you know what? We can just ride this out. Jokic is incredible. Hopefully we don't exhaust him in these playoff series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And they came back and they won a championship. The Mavericks don't have that. Anyway, I can't. Let's stop. I still can't believe it. Every day I wake up and I'm like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I don't have any other takeaways from Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City Lakers is a bad game for the Thunder. Bad games happen. Again, I cannot stress this enough. The Thunder and the Cavaliers have zero to play for. There's a very natural decline in intensity as we get to this point of the season where All right, can we just get the – like, we're the number one seed. Can we just get the playoffs here?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
The Houston loss, I don't know if you saw that, the Houston-Oklahoma City game on Friday was almost more interesting to me because... Houston just beat the hell out of them. Like, Shen Goon, they started with Chet on Shen Goon, and Shen Goon just feasted on Chet. And they switched the matchup to put Hartenstein on Shen Goon, which they did not want to do initially.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And offensive rebounding, they had their way. And always the heat against the thunder. If you can win or be equal in turnovers, limit their steals, you have a chance against them. And that's what the Rockets did. That was almost a more interesting game to me. The Lakers lost the turnover battle, but won handily anyway because they shot the hell out of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Look, my finals prediction from day one, you can go on X and see it, even though I had no job at the time, was Celtics over Thunder. It was the chalk pick. I almost went Denver, and I was just hearing too much bad stuff from Denver, too much like, eh, a lot has got to go right for you to make the finals. So I went Celtics over Thunder. I'm sticking with that. That's still my finals pick.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I don't know if you made a final. I don't know if they make you make predictions or what it was.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And I thought Philly Philly really loaded up in the offseason.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You ready to go? Let's do it. Oklahoma City has lost two consecutive games for the first time in a while. They got bullied by the Rockets on Friday, I think. And then the Lakers... In a game that was... playoff like in the way that the Lakers approached it on offense, but Oklahoma city also obviously has very little to play for, uh, other than health and getting, getting primed for the playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Well, congrats to the Sixers. They have risen to fifth in the lottery standings, which is big for them with their top six protected pick going out the door in Philadelphia. Lottery's going to be interesting. Lottery's going to be a heavy drama in the draft lottery. Let's do some awards talk. Sure. Start with the big kahuna. This is not a hot take, I don't think.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I still haven't decided who I would vote for for MVP. I... I just – like how am I supposed to even decide? Every time you're like, well, SGA's team is 15 games up in the standings. He's incredible, blah, blah. It's like, oh, what did Jokic have? 37-15 and 11 or whatever. And yeah, Denver is losing and maybe – it's hard to put – it's hard to vote.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
If they're in the play-in, it's going to be hard for people to get there and SGA is probably going to win it anyway. But it's – I have been leaning SGA because I just think statistically – Jokic's dossier is a little bit better, but it's pretty close, and some of the advanced metrics actually favor Shea. But both of them are historically incredible statistical seasons.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
SGA is a better defensive player. Jokic is a better offensive player. And just sort of tie goes to the guy whose team is whatever, 64 and whatever they are right now. That still holds some logic to me, but I just – Every Jokic, every day, I just keep coming back to who's just better. And I just think Jokic is better and impacts every single possession a teensy bit more heavily on offense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
The rockets are 15 and two in their last 17 games. They have something like a 99% chance. According to most models now of clinching the number two seed, what an accomplishment for the Houston rockets and email Doka. Um, Who cemented that almost number two seed status with a rollicking, and I mean rollicking win at Golden State last night.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
There was copious trash talk, including between Ime Odoka and Steph Curry. And after the game, I don't know if you saw this, Howard, I'm reading the athletics story. This is Eme Odoka to the Athletic after the game on the little halftime as they were walking to the locker room, dust up between him and Steph. When people start complaining about foul calls or crying about physicality, yeah, crying.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
24 points, 6 assists, 45% overall, 39.7%. I'm giving him 40. 40% on 11 threes a game. And per 36 minutes, he's at 27 points a game. So everyone – that's the same as Mitchell because Mitchell has obviously sacrificed. He doesn't play a lot of – there's been fourth quarters where they haven't needed him. So his per-game stuff is lower than his per-minute stuff. But Steph matches it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He didn't say whining. He said crying. You've done your job.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And look, I don't need to tell anybody. That 40% on 11 threes combined with his off-ball movement, he remains – A singular offensive force, the likes of which there has never been, both in terms of impact and style. It's just playing them is just a different animal than playing any other team. And it's all because of him still.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
udoka told the athletic what asked about the exchange with curry that's the first step in winning the battle so i told my team when this team starts crying about it that's two cryings in five seconds up the intensity up the aggressiveness and make the refs adjust to you can we all agree by the way draymond green should have gotten ejected from that game and if you were any other player would have gotten ejected like three different times
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Yeah, I have no problem with that. And in fact, Cat and Jaron Jackson Jr. have been on my second team for the most part in the last month. And I just recently shifted them down for no other reason. I just think LeBron's been unbelievable and Halliburton's been unbelievable.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
cat has been fantastic the entire season um defensively he just is he is what he is like he's he's not had a great defensive season the knicks have not had a great defensive season but i've had him second team most of the year i wouldn't i wouldn't quibble i wouldn't quibble hardly at all with that um And Jaron Jackson Jr., same thing.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I mean, lately he's gotten back into some foul trouble habits that still drive me nuts. But that brings me to third team right now, which is, again, it's all tentative. People can shift around. I don't even have a ballot. Who cares? My third team, like absolute stone cold lock, Cat and Jaron Jackson Jr. They're both on it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They're both making it all NBA team on my fake ballot, whether it's second or third. They're both locked in. If Brunson gets to 65 games, I'm putting him on third team. You could make a case for him for second team, maybe in his minutes, or he's still played more minutes than Steph, despite playing in fewer games, because, you know, Tibbs. My fourth guy, so that's Brunson, Cat, Jaron Jackson Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I think Cade Cunningham's got to be there, just to represent the Pistons and the seasons they've had. It got to be strong, but I have Cade Cunningham on. And then that last spot, I've had Kevin Durant penciled in there if he makes 65 games. And people are going to scoff at the Suns. Rightfully so. Scoff all you want. 26.5 points a game. 6 rebounds. 4 assists. 52.7% shooting. 43% on 3s. 57% on 2s.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Like, it's not his fault. I mean, some of it is his fault, but it's not basketball-wise his fault. However, he has not hit the 65-game threshold, and the Suns' finish to the season has become so embarrassing that I'm willing to open that up, which feels crazy considering the statistics I just read. And yes, I think he has a better case than Devin Booker.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I know Book's been hot lately and has been their best passer this year. I think Durant has a better case than Devin Booker. He's not had a great shooting season, particularly from three. I'm willing to open that last spot up. You'll hear arguments that Jalen Williams has got to be there because the Thunder need two representatives. It's not that persuasive for you, but he's in the conversation.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Shen Goon, late run right now, really sort of, if there's an answer to Houston's half-court offense late in games, I think he's got to be a huge part of it and has been. James Harden, like the shooting numbers are eh, like really eh. But he's been the engine for them all year. And let me look them up because he just cracked, I think, 40%. Yeah, 40% for the season. 34.5% from three. 46.5% from two.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I don't know that I could get there with him. But he does deserve credit again for playing every game and keeping them afloat. And he's surging now with Kawhi next to him. Jalen Brown I don't think can get there. And by the way, have you seen Jalen Brown's recent comments about the state of his knee? No, I did not. He's like been talking about how he's playing through some pain.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I think it's a bone bruise or something. I can't remember what it is. It's like not great, not great comments. And you could make Trey young. So bonus, I don't, I can't quite get there with him. It's undecided, but Durant is in pencil. But he might not even be eligible. So give me your third team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
he's not had a great finish finishing kick to the season or the calves. No, but he was, look, I love Terry Scarlet. The guy's one of my favorite players to watch 20 a game, six and a half assists, 47%, 40% from three could make the case. I just, I can't quite, can't quite get there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Coming up on the very first episode of the Zach Lowe Show, we've got Howard Beck of the Ringer, my new teammate, on Thunder Lakers, the craziness of the Western Conference, the awards races, and much more. And then Anthony Slater from The Athletic on the Warriors and a crazy Rockets-Warriors game full of trash talk and spice last night. to the Zach Lowe Show.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He's one of the ultimate gap fillers in the NBA. Just one of these guys, like whatever you need on either end of the floor, he can do some of it. It's he's a very, very valuable player.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Irrelevant? Irrelevant. I like watching the Hawks. I think Trey Young's had kind of a good year. The shooting numbers aren't quite where they need to be given his limitations on defense. But here's one of your fun stat on Trey Young. Yeah. He has diversified his offense in real ways that have helped Jalen Johnson's development before he got injured, that have helped Dyson Daniels' development.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And here's just one small thing. Again, I don't think the shooting numbers are there for Trey Young to make an all-NBA team, but I believe he does lead the NBA in assists. He has set more ball screens this year, set more ball screens this year, according to Second Spectrum, at least as of last week, than the entire prior career combined, every season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Like, it's not a ton, but I think it was over 200 when I checked, so it's a few every game. He deserves some credit for that, but I can't get there. I just will not let you come on this podcast, come on the Zach Lowe Show, and call... Quinn Snyder's glasses and Zachary Richachet, one of the few Zachs in the NBA, irrelevant. I just won't let you do it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He's been going black more lately. He's been going with the black lenses or the black frames more lately. Yeah. I have a feeling he hears about this when I make fun of the glasses and it drives him. I bet he's mad. I bet he gets mad. I don't make fun. I wish I could be that cool. I can't. I don't wear glasses. I don't need glasses. But if I tried to do that, I just couldn't pull it off.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Draymond, look, he might win defense player of the year. He got a stupid technical for... Like, he baited a ref into a technical, and he dared the ref to call him for a technical by elbowing Shingun in the face. Then he got a flagrant, which... That was a strange play when he went up for a layup and elbowed Shingun in the face. I didn't quite know what to make of that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
People would laugh at me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I can see through the television, through my monitor. I can see the pouting every game, not just by him. I can see the in the corner pouting and I see it every game. Now, that team has been a tire fire top to bottom the entire year. The Beal thing has been a disaster. He finally made a basket.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He came back, he didn't make any baskets, and he didn't make any baskets for like a full quarter and a half. He made a basket. They can't just, like Colin Gillespie starts and he doesn't start. Their whole lineup has been a mess. The fact, I mean, they're not competitive. I was going to say the fact that they're even competitive lately. They haven't won in ages now.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He has been the best player on their team. Again, like I said, I don't know what to do, and he hasn't qualified yet. I don't know who I would go with. Did any of those other names, were they persuasive to you? I said Harden, Jalen Brown, Zubats deserves a look, Sabonis, anyone else?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
But just the fact that he's the only player who's allowed to clap in a ref's face for eight consecutive seconds and say whatever he wants and no one does anything about it, it's interesting. But the other headline from that game, you know, Howard, I was going to come on today and say – First-team All-NBA.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It's every year you get here and you're splitting hairs and then you think like, wow, imagine if these five players were actually eligible. Like Wemby, Luka, AD, we go on and on. Like, oh my God, I forgot Kawhi. None of these players are eligible. I mean, not that you'd expect Kawhi to be eligible, but
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Joel Embiid.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I'd like to ramp down just in general. I just like a ramp down.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
A magic guy would have made it. One of the magic guys. Probably Bancaro would have made it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
revive the warriors or put them back in the conversation but again it's irrelevant because he hasn't played enough games anyway i'm just saying like there's some really interesting cases to consider two things two two tangents based on what you just said number one jimmy butler has reached the point where like i'm never doubting jimmy butler again whatever decisions he makes in life i just he's got he's a winning player he's always been a winning player
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He gets paid no matter what he does. If he gave me financial advice right now, like, hey, the market's tanking. I got some advice for you. Buy stock in pumpkins or something like Homer Simpson did in November, obviously. Homer bought the pumpkin stock. Didn't go well for Homer. I would be like, sure, I get it, Jimmy. I trust you. I'm putting all my money in pumpkins.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
My second tangent, I already forgot what it was. I'm in mid-season form.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I don't want to address this. I don't want to go any further than this. The most complicated, and I don't mean that in any sense other than just like the most complicated question in NBA team building right now is what in the hell are the Pelicans supposed to do? What direction is their roster even aimed in now? Are they a win-now team while their best player doesn't play?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
We've got four spots locked in, I think, between the two MVP candidates, favorites, Giannis and Tatum. That fifth spot has been rotating. It's been Donovan Mitchells for most of the season. Then he's kind of had an eh. Not eh. He had a little bit of a trough relative to his exemplary standard. And the Cavs are only 6-6 in their last 12 games, lost to Sacramento at home.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Are they a rebuilding team while they're picking high in the draft again? Are they, like, a cheap team? No, they're – it's just – I don't – like, the closest thing they had to – it's not a semi-dependable – borderline all NBA all-star player was Brandon Ingram who actually plays and they traded him and he hasn't played for the Raptors.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I mean, you and I might get, I'm surprised the Raptors didn't call me for a 10 day contract or like a fourth quarter contract. Hey, we're winning in the fourth quarter. Zach, get in there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Anybody, anybody. I'm not positing an answer. I have no idea what the answer is. I just know that I would not want to be responsible for figuring that out. Let's fly through all defense. I have no idea who I would vote for for defensive player of the year. I will make a prediction at some point. I did make tentative all defensive teams.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And this is very difficult because there are seven guys that I would consider worthy of first team all defense. Maybe eight. Don't know if you're any good at math. You can only pick five. My first seven, two of whom are going to have to be on the second team. are Dyson Daniels, Jaron Jackson Jr., Evan Mobley, Draymond Green, Ahmed Thompson, Lugans Dort, and OG Ananobi.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Who, by the way, OG Ananobi, in the last month, has played at an all-NBA level. That guy is on a heater like he's never been on before. I guess if I had to pick a first team, Daniels has to be on it. Jackson has to be on it. Mobley has to be on it. I think I would put Draymond Green and Ahmed Thompson as the last two spots on my first team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And with apologies to the Thunder, put Dort on the second team and put Ananobi just because it's not his fault that the Knicks have the worst defense among this group. They just do. He's deserving of first-team all-defense. I just – I can't fit him. I don't know what – you could make – I mean – I'm not, this is tentative. You could easily make a case that he's first team all defense.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He's been, there are sequences in every Knicks game that he plays where for like 90 seconds, the whole game is just OGN and OB doing stuff and taking over, like wrecking the game. Block, shot, dunk, steal, pass, dunk by somebody else. Like, oh my God, what just happened? And then they would then, tentatively, then Dort and OG Anadobi would be on my second team, along with Jalen Williams.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
So the Thunder are getting two guys on my all-defensive team. Evita Zubats, who I think deserves to be in conversation for first team as well. He's the other guy there. And that leaves me one spot for either Bam Adebayo or Rudy Gobert, with apologies to Tumani Kamara, Derek White, and a couple of other people who just missed the cut.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And I don't know who I would pick between those two, but that's what I got right now. I think I would lean Mobley right now. Just the most – he's not the best defender in the NBA. He hasn't been the best defender in the NBA in the last month. I think Draymond has probably taken that crown from him, if not Ahmed Thompson. I think he just has the most complete season-long –
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
yesterday and then you know Anthony Edwards maybe Evan Mobley maybe and I was going to come on this podcast and say hey I've seen what Steph Curry's been doing in the last month or two of the season and particularly in the last three or four games as the Warriors traipse through a gauntlet of teams and then you know what happened to Steph Curry Amin Thompson happened to Steph Curry and Amin Thompson announced himself not only as a first team all defense player if he made a big final sort of statement like hey
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It's not his fault. It's not his fault. This part is not his fault. And this helps his case as a defensive player. I do think because of his reputation, whatever, he gets more leeway physically than almost anybody else in the league. Like he can play ultra, ultra physical defense and get away with it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You got called for that flagrant. Cause he hadn't shut the hell up in like 20 straight minutes. That's why he got called for it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
All right, go, go, go. Give me your all-defensive.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Who gets bumped to your second team? Dyson Daniels for one.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Same with Obi Toppin for six minutes of the year. Not that he would get my vote, but just as a bookkeeping note.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Bam's going to get punished because the Heat have had a bad season. They're 10th or 11th in defense, and he just remains a stalwart that enables them to play a lot of different ways and deserves credit, too, for playing with Khalil Ware, who... Kahlil Ware, rather, who deserves, I think, to be first-team all-rookie. But that's a different story.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
The rim protection numbers are not great. I think teams are shooting, like, 71% with him – against him at the basket. But that's never been – I mean, he can get up there for a member of the block on Tatum, which is iconic in the bubble, but that's not his strength strength. But if you're forced to sort of pick a weak spot in his case, that's what it is. But I agree with you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Bam has been, despite carrying a bigger offensive load, and he's done better on that lately than he did at the early part of the season, I think he's been pretty damn like Bam on a bio on defense. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
First-team all-defense. Not only that, in this jumbled defensive player of the year race, don't ignore me. I know I'm only a second-year guy. I don't have this great reputation or whatever yet. I'm not Draymond Green in terms of my historical import to the game. But look what I can do. And he just blanketed Steph Curry and made plays as a help defender. Okay, that's the Rockets.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
If I had to choose between him and Bam right now, I think I would probably just reward Gobert based on team success. But I don't feel great about not having Bam on either of my all-defense teams. All right. Those are the only awards. I'll do the other awards later this week probably with another guest on Thursday. Howard Beck, any parting thoughts being the first guest on this silly show?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Would you say it's the greatest honor of your life? Would you go that far? Where does it rank? Where does it rank vis-a-vis your marriage and the birth of your daughter? Better above those?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You might be a SAG member now. You might be able to vote in the SAG Awards. All right, Howard Beck, what do we got coming up on The Ringer from you? I know you're going to be on Real Ones as usual. I've got to get in the habit of promoting Ringer stuff now.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
We can get back to that. Ready to keep going? Let's go. Lakers have won four out of five, including that Thunder win. They are now a 75% bet, according to most markets, to clinch the third seed. That's a big deal for the Lakers. It's a great season for them. We will talk about them as we talk about Thunder Lakers. And then five teams, teams four to eight, all have exactly 32 losses.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
All right. I was deciding what I wanted to tack on as guest number two, and I wanted to talk about a team, specific team. I was like, what team should I really talk about? And I just don't know that any team has had a more interesting calendar year than the Golden State Warriors. The ups, the downs, the developments, the trades. Anthony Slater from The Athletic covers them like no other.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
How are you, sir?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I'm very good. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. Warriors, 46-32, hot start. Started drowning, traded for Jimmy Butler, clarified the roster, and now they are 46-32, 21-3, I believe, with both Butler and Curry in the lineup. Coming off a loss last night to the Rockets, which we can talk about. But it's just been a crazy year of ups and downs, and I think, remarkably...
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
they saved their season they saved i don't want to say saved the end of steph curry's career but they have built themselves a team that i think they can look at and say this is real like to me this is real what they've done i'm not saying that they're the best team in the west the favorites in the west that they can win more than one playoff run necessarily but i remember i tweeted when the butler trade happened really like the butler trade something like i like the butler trade fine for both teams um
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I think he'll fit with the Warriors despite the shooting concerns because of just the IQ, the cutting, the defense, all that stuff. I said I think he could fit with both Kaminga and Green, which we'll talk about whether that's actually true.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And I think I said something like maybe not quite a true title contender, but why not just sort of try to out-Veteran the Rockets in the first round and then you can win a – Maybe I sold them short. I don't know quite how good this team is, but this feels very real to me. Does it feel real to you watching it up close? And more importantly, it seems to feel pretty damn real to them.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
He's the subplot of all this is like the guy is leveled up from where he was last year and completely left behind whatever the hell was going on with him in the first two months of the season.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Four of them have the exact same record at 46 and 32. And just to give you a sense of how jumbled it is, take the Denver Nuggets. I'm using playoffstatus.com, which is a great site that has mathematical models about who's going to be where in the playoffs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I mean, winning three series is a tall order for anybody in the West, period. No one other than the Thunder is a smart bet to be able to do that. And they had a rough weekend themselves. But the Warriors... Could do it. I mean, it's in play for them to win three playoff series. Now, the fourth one would be the finals. Let's just leave that aside. Their ceiling has been that high as a two-way team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They're plus 10 per 100 possessions since the Butler trade, and that includes the losses that one or both of them didn't play in, Butler and Curry. Their starting five is plus 10 per 100 possessions, plus 45 in 164 minutes. And it just works. It's small. It's small. And that got exposed a little bit last night against the Rockets, who are just ginormous and very, very mean. Very nasty.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
But it's a lineup that makes sense with Pajemski playing like this. I know Moody is not everyone's cup of tea, even within the Warriors. He's a little bit of a polarizing player. I think he's fit great in that starting lineup. And they bring quality guys off the bench. This feels... Pretty real to me. But what was that scene like last night, by the way?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
A lot of crazy stuff happened in that game last night. Ime Odoka and Steph yapping at each other. Draymond just going full Draymond for like 20 straight minutes and not getting ejected.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I don't know if you or Sam Amick, because it's a cold byline story, conducted the interview with Ime Odoka when he used the word crying twice to describe what the Warriors were doing at halftime about the Rockets' physicality. Was that your interview or Sam's?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And he's gone after LeBron, too.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
The Nuggets right now have a, according to this website, and basketball references are similar, 4% chance at the third seed, 15% chance at the fourth seed, 16% chance at the fifth seed, 22% chance at the sixth seed, 26% chance at the seventh seed. Play in! That's the highest number so far, 26%. 18% chance of the eighth seed. That's just like, what is even happening? They've lost four in a row.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I almost wondered if it should have just been a no call. I didn't know what to make of it because it did not look like a wildly unnatural layup motion.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Look, they could be anywhere from four to eight. We don't know. We have no idea who their opponent's going to be. You start saying the word eight, it gets scary. Like, wait, we could still be eighth? I mean, their schedule is fairly forgiving the rest of the way. At Phoenix, home San Antonio, at Portland, and against the Clippers. Their tiebreaker situation is decent. They've won some.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They've lost others. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Jamal Murray, Michael Malone said before yesterday's game, hopefully he's back before the playoffs. This is becoming a weird one. Uh-oh. Minnesota and the Clippers are both, both 14-3 in their last 17 games. Guess who has the third best net rating in the Western Conference? Number one is the Thunder. Number two is the Rockets. Do you know who has the third?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
For the whole season, not just in the last 20 games, not just post-All-Star break, the whole season, the third best net rating in the West.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
The Los Angeles Clippers, plus 4.8 per 100 possessions. They are... plus 16 per 100 possessions with Kawhi, Harden, Powell, and Zubats on the floor, plus 167 in 460 minutes. Woolboy. The Wolves, I just mentioned, 14-3, trending well. They're the fourth-best net rating in the West. The Warriors, 21-3 with Butler and Curry, lost last night. And then Memphis rounds out that group.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They've actually won their last two games. John Morant got fined for making the shooting gun motion. Do we need to address that? I guess there was a lot of... A lot of like, well, everybody does the, you know, it's called shooting. That's what people call it. It's three-point shooting.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I feel like I can compete with anybody in a playoff series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I wouldn't want any of these teams. They're all... But the one that the Warriors... I think there was some like if we could just avoid Jokic in the first round, that would be great. Like they have so much respect for Jokic. Jokic is the best player in the NBA. The way Denver is just all over the place right now, defensively, health wise, all of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You know, that's I don't think that quite has the same fear factor.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And everybody does some, tons of players do some version of a mimicking of like, oh, whatever, gun thing when they make threes or something approaching that. Why is Ja getting singled out? My reaction was like, really? You guys don't know why Ja's getting singled out for that? You don't know why he's the only one getting punished? Like, really? That's hard to understand.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Okay, I have two thoughts. Number one, I talked about this with Howard Beck before, that Luka felt a little bit lost offensively in that game in a way that surprised me. And I think the Warriors switching and lack of a slow-footed center for him to attack was part of it. And the game plan against the Warriors is always hunt Steph, hunt Steph. And that's kind of like LeBron's job.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And even like Austin Reeves did a lot of it. I think that's good for the Warriors if Luka can get lost a little bit in the offensive attack. On the other hand... We have a lot of years of experience that wanting Luka Doncic in a playoff matchup is a bad, bad thing to want. You should not want it. You should want to avoid it. By the way, you mentioned something, gold medals and stuff.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
You mentioned the Olympics. I have a quibble, and I think I'm going to – I don't know if I can blame Steve Kerr, but I'm blaming him for it. I haven't had a podcast in a long time. I got a lot of takes to get off.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I guess that's what we're calling it now. I kind of like the old name. I came up with the old name. But the only constant in life is change. And so we move on. And as we move on, it is time for the first time in a very long time to say the three most anticipated words in niche basketball podcasting. Everybody, what up, Beck? Howard Beck of The Ringer slash Spotify. How are you? Zach Lowe!
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Batum is one of the stars.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
We have locker room footage of Jokic, the likes of which you will never get again. It's absolutely incredible. You know what locker room footage we don't have, Anthony Slater?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
I have. Half-time of the semifinals, we're getting smoked by Serbia. They go into Serbia's locker room. Jokic is on the whiteboard doing stuff. The coach eventually kicks the cameraman out of the locker room. And then you just, like, third quarter, so I said, wait a second. The one thing I want to see is Team USA at their most crisis moment, at the moment of greatest urgency. The game pauses.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Everything's on the line. They got 20 minutes left. And I don't see it. I just... I'm mad. Steve Kerr has to answer for this. Eric Spolster has to answer for this. Sean Ford at USA Basketball has to answer for this. They all have to answer for this, Anthony Slater.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
We didn't get that. All right, Anthony Slater does just a bang-up job covering the Warriors, more than the Warriors, all things NBA. For The Athletic, it's great to see you. Thanks for lending me some time. And buckle up. Buckle up for the end of the season for the West. No Kings questions? They're still alive. They're still alive. They're playing. They are. They're ninth.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They're ninth with a bullet. I know. Only eight games out of eighth. Do they have enough time to make that up? It's going great for the Kings.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It's been a rough season for the Kings. 8-38 and 40 is not so bad. All right, Anthony Slater, thank you, sir. All right, thanks for having me. Must be 21 and over and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call the 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com slash RG.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 sport in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Yeah. I have nothing more to say about it. I mean, it's just like, yeah, maybe, maybe just don't do it would be my, my gentle advice.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
So the West, as I just described is a complete mess. Like who knows who's going to be four or five, six, seven, eight, who's going to have to go through the play in, which apparently Dallas and Sacramento are just going to limp right into that play in Sacramento. Nice one last night again in Cleveland. Cause Phoenix wants absolutely no part of it. Um, And it's just, it's so jumbled.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And there are so many teams going up and down and sideways. And the records are the same. The tiebreakers are all over the place. And you're tempted to say, well, it looks pretty open. Like the Lakers have a playoff formula. The Rockets, I mean, the Rockets, yeah, their half-court offense is only so-so. It's trended better as the season's been going along.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They've found something with this Adams-Shen-Gun just beat the hell out of you double big lineup. Yeah, it might be flawed, their half-court offense. Their shooting is so-so. Their spacing is so-so. They are just freaking good and tough. Their defense is legit. And they are going to beat the crap out of you for seven straight games. And you're going to feel that whether you win that series or not.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
They can beat any of these teams 2-7, 2-8. They could win any series. And they reminded everybody of that last night. And then you still have the Thunder that are like a million games ahead of everyone else. So let's start there. Two-game losing streak over the weekend, and that Lakers game, all the eyes of the league were on that game. Let's see how the Lakers match up with this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
The new-look Lakers, the Luka Lakers match up with the Thunder. What did you take away from the Lakers blowing the doors off the Thunder on the road?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Like, there's a legitimate case... Except one team has 64 wins.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
What the hell are you?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
It seems to – it sort of catches you off guard because everything has changed so fast. I read those records. These teams in their last 17, 18 games are just rolling through wins. The Nuggets are 5-9 in their last 14 games. Strother just got healthy. Jamal Murray hasn't been healthy. It's been a weird year for them, just one of those years. And they've fallen back to the pack.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
And, like, the Clippers – there's always going to be some lag time with them because Kawhi took a long time to come back. And then there's just sort of residual, like, why would I believe this? Why would I have faith in it? And then the games and the wins and the numbers pile up, and you're like, I don't know. The sample size is pretty big now that when they have everybody...
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
they're they have the statistical profile of a legit contending team and minnesota same thing both of those teams were 32 and 29 middling middling now in the west middling is tough in the east middling is the bulls who are hot great good congratulations um And they're both 14-3 since being 32-29. The Wolves got Randall back. He's fit back in.
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
Gobert's playing some of the best basketball he's played in a long time. And Ant is Ant. And they've got through the suspensions with the Pistons brawl thing. And, yeah, like 32-29, you're 60 games in. You're kind of like, okay, I guess those teams are just what they are. And then you wake up. You're like, wait a second. Are they much more than we thought they were?
The Zach Lowe Show
Lakers' Statement Win Over OKC? Plus, Awards Talk With Howard Beck and a Warriors Check-In With Anthony Slater.
But let's go back to Thunder Lakers. What struck you?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And they turned Wiggins and a minor draft asset and some other stuff into a great, great player. Not quite like Giannis or the home, you know, they flirted with the rant. They tried to trade for Inanobi a couple of years ago. They flirt with everybody. But a very... I mean, Butler's better than Inanobi, obviously. It should be obvious. And here they are.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And this is for Steph's twilight, given the typical track record of aging championship teams, given that the two timelines thing, which was an accident to begin with, totally not planned and not intentional, hasn't really yielded much in terms of production from the young guys. One of those two timeline guys is Poole, and he got punched right off the team. This is just...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Hey, listen. You talk into a microphone long enough and often enough, you're going to sound like a moron. It's going to happen. It's sadly the case. Two game sevens over the weekend. Warriors Rockets. Your boy picked Warriors in seven and said the Warriors have done rude things on that floor in elimination games before. And they did it again, just like in 2018, all the missed threes.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
they may not win another game. They may not win another round. I'm going to pick Minnesota in the next round. This is a, a plus Steph twilight season, the best they could possibly have hoped for.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Let's talk about the Rockets because we're now going to enter a very important offseason for them as they are running out of time to have cap flexibility. They, in fact, probably will not have much, if any, cap room this summer, depending on Van Vliet's $44 million team option. And they need Fred Van Vliet. I mean, that was hammered home in this series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
They either need Fred Van Vliet or the equivalent of a steady hand like Fred Van Vliet or else they're toast. on offense, they're already kind of toast. They're whatever is below toast, crumbs, crust, unwanted crust. I don't know. And obviously the speculation is going to focus on two guys. And one is Kevin Durant.
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Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
The price point will be much lower for him than it will be for if and if, if, if Giannis Attentacompo. And the Giannis stuff is going to run wild, right? We know this. We know that Houston's got a bucket of young players and a bucket of draft picks, including Phoenix's pick this year in the lottery, Phoenix's pick in 27, and two of Phoenix, Dallas, and their own pick, the best two, in 2029.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Plus all their own picks, essentially, except for this year's and all the swaps. So that's a lot of stuff. And it's important for the Bucs to get picks from as many different teams as possible if they trade Giannis. So they're betting against not the team Giannis is going to, but a little bit that team, but teams across the league, like maybe Phoenix, whose future is uncertain.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And if I'm Milwaukee, here's the question I'm posing to you. If I'm Milwaukee, I just watched this series. Here are the seven crown jewel young players that the Rockets have on their team. Shen Goon, I thought, didn't shoot well, but I thought he was up for the moment. Tough, physical. Yeah. He's a real dude. Ahmed Thompson, untouchable. You're just not getting him. Sorry. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Cam Whitmore didn't play. Reed Shepard didn't play. Jalen Green played and played horribly. Tari Eason and Jabari Smith are good players. I am a Tari Eason fanboy. What are they long-term is somewhat unknown. Well, Eason is frenetic with the ball, had some bad turnovers last night. he's a great energy player. He can shoot threes. He rebounds the hell out of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
2019, Steph has a million points in the second half after having no points in the first half. And six years later, with Buddy Heald in the role of Klay Thompson, Draymond Green and the role of Draymond Green with a technical foul and limbs flailing everywhere and always connecting with sensitive body parts and Steph Curry playing the part of Steph Curry.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Is he ever going to be steady enough with the ball in his hands to be more than, and this is not a bad outcome for him, but like a really good role player, Jabari Smith, junior, same thing. Houston hasn't really developed him as a five or, or like a ball handling semi wing. He's sort of just been lost there as finding, and he's good at what he did. I love Jabari Smith Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
He's about the right things. He can make shots. What is he long-term? This is all leading me to, if I'm the Bucks or if I'm the Rockets, whatever, can I get this trade done without including Shen Goon? I'm not including Thompson. Can I get a Giannis trade done without including Shen Goon? Are the remaining pieces and picks appealing to me enough as Milwaukee?
The Zach Lowe Show
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So I'm talking something like Eason, Smith, Green, and all the picks. The three Phoenix picks, Houston's picks. Is that enough? Because if I'm Houston, if I'm Milwaukee, I'm looking at, you know, okay, like Jalen Green, well, we just got through like a horrible playoff series. Eason and Smith, I just went on.
The Zach Lowe Show
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If I don't get Shingun and Thompson, I'm really doing the trade mostly for the picks, if not entirely for the picks. Is that enough for Giannis? And conversely, if I'm Houston... I really want to keep Shingun because I want to have a really good team around Giannis when he gets here.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And if I don't have him and I don't have Ahmed Thompson, it's like Jalen Green and Van Vliet and all these dudes who haven't played, like Whitmore and Reed Shepard. I think that's a really interesting conversation. My prediction, and obviously there'd be a bidding war for Giannis.
The Zach Lowe Show
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My prediction is I bet Houston could thread the, I don't know if they, you know, I actually don't know because another wild card here is if Giannis and Milwaukee decide it's time, I think Milwaukee will send him someplace where he wants to go. And if Houston is on that list, that obviously helps Houston's leverage a little bit. If I had to bet I don't feel great about it.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I would bet Houston could get it done while keeping Shen Goon and Thompson, just because the picks are so valuable coming from Phoenix and potentially Dallas and Houston's own picks.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Like I, if I get seven first round picks and five swaps and whatever it ends up being, and those picks are triangulated around the league, maybe I can trade some of those picks to get one of my own picks back so I can tank properly. And I get some interesting young prospects and, It's palatable, but I think that the Shen Goon piece to me is the very interesting.
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It's not like he and Giannis are a great fit offensively. You can nitpick that, but talent is talent. Shen Goon is really good. He's on a good contract. I want to keep him if I'm Houston, and I am definitely keeping Ahmed Thompson.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And I saw some people online, Howard Beck saying, Ooh, the media really talking up Steph. Oh, big deal. 22 points, 22 points, 10 rebounds, 10 rebounds, big deal. Seven assists, eight of 16, four of 10 rebounds. Every dagger that they needed, he got them. And the Warriors' entire defense was anybody but Steph. We're trapping you on the pick and roll.
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No, I mean, we'll see. And again, it sounds ridiculous to say Amin Thompson's untouchable for Giannis. Well, if he's touchable, that means Shingun is also touchable because Amin Thompson is a more important trade asset right now than Shingun. And you just get to the point where as exciting as trading for Giannis, who's only 31, I think, is...
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Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
if you got the entire present and future or like 75% of both to get him, you're going to be left with a team that may not be good enough. And you're going to have cost yourself a lot of future assets that you have to maintain.
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And this is a guy who has had injuries in like three of the last four playoffs, whose jump shot mid-ranger came along this year, but you know, that the aging curve of someone without a jump shot is not as great as someone with a great jump shot. I'm just saying like you, it's tempting to throw the whole boat at all of these guys when they become available. Cause the names are so exciting.
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You got to hold on to what you can hold on to because you have to get them in the door in a place where you are at or close to the inner circle of championship contention. And it's nice to say Giannis and Reed Shepard and Cam Whitmore and Shen Goon and whatever is there. Like maybe it is, maybe it isn't. And by the way, Reed Shepard should not just be glossed over as like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
just as sort of another guy that's been thrown in here. Cam Whitmore's had two seasons to earn Emeo Doka's trust and hasn't. Reed Shepard walked in as a rookie, undersized, going to have some defensive challenges on a team that won 52 games. He's still a really high wattage prospect who was the number three pick.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And as much as teams talking to Houston, we'll try to be like, well, you know, how valuable is he? He couldn't play for you guys. He's valuable. He's like a real legit trade asset, as is this Phoenix pick, which by the way, we don't even know where it's going to be until a week from today when the lottery happens.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And we're going to find out that pick could be three, four, eight, 10, wherever it ends up falling is a big deal.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Bill posited, like, bill posited is Jalen green worth a top five pick in this draft. I don't, he said, no, I don't think so. I'm like, I was sitting there being like, what? No, no, not even close. Not even close.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
We're giving you absolutely no breathing room off the ball. We're switching everything. We're dialed in. How are you going to score? And for a while in the third quarter, the answer was, oh, we may not be able to score. And they would trap him. And the other guys who are not great vertical finishers, who are sometimes not great shooters, were kind of like, oh. I don't want to shoot it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So when I wrote about him last year, he was my most interesting player going into the season in the league. And I don't pick superstars or rookies. It was a targeted pick.
The Zach Lowe Show
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The most common comps to him, and this was among like mild optimists to tepid optimists for Jalen Green, were, well, is he just going to be, not just because you can't say just about guys who have made all-star teams, but is he like, does he top out as like Bradley Beal, Zach Levine, like a guy who scores a lot of points and doesn't, it's unclear how much they help you win high-level basketball games.
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And I thought that was an interesting comp. Look, this year was a disappointment. I mean, he was fine in the regular season. It wasn't the leap that I thought would happen. It was a mini, mini, mini leap, but the passing judgment was the same. Defensively, I thought he improved a lot and was not out of place in this series. I thought he was pretty good.
The Zach Lowe Show
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It's just the passing decision-making just isn't there. And he's very young, still very young, and he's super athletic. And finding your way on a team that's trying to win with the demanding coach is not easy. There's also the alternative where you just say, hey, you know, it's easy to trick yourself into being like, well, we were the two seed. We're very, very close.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Like we really have to make an all-in move now. You were the two seed, but the difference between two and seven, both in terms of wins and net rating, is not enormous. What you really were was a middle-of-the-pack Western Conference playoff team who happened to win a few more regular season games than expected and a few more regular season games than some of your rivals.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And I think you need to look at it from that perspective rather than, well, we're the two seed. Two seeds are contenders. You were the two seed and you were very close to seven and not anywhere in the universe of one. And there's so the alternative of just doing nothing and standing pat is, I think, a viable one for them. It's not the one that I expect them to take, though.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I don't want to shoot it. Draymond, can you take another end of shot clock three? Cause those are going great. And then Steph decided, you know what? I might have to take matters into my own hands. And he got Jabari Smith jr. On him, bringing the ball up early in the fourth quarter and waved everyone away and said, I got it. Blue biome layup next possession. I'm in Thompson pulls up with the calf.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
A plethora of piñatas. Would you say I have a plethora of piñatas? You don't know you're older than me and you don't know that from the three amigos?
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Probably problematic now. Probably, almost certainly.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Ten-year-old me did not understand why it was potentially a problem. Maybe I haven't seen it since then, so maybe it's not. Anyway, you have a plethora of something you were going to say.
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For sure. Yeah, for sure.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
There's a case. Okay. Less interesting is the future of the Clippers, who, as we turn to the other game, seven got embarrassed on the road in Denver by a thousand. I don't know what the final score ended up being. It was a million points. Lots. Watch the game with my daughter because I was solo with her. We got to watch it live together. She had a lot of questions about a lot of different things.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
It was great. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
She likes James Harden because of the beard. And I had to explain to her, um, the history of James Harden and games like this, uh, which has continued a pace. Um,
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You can caveat it all the way around. Like, well, you know, he's had some great game ones and game threes that we just don't remember because they end up losing the series. That's true. Game three in 2019 against the Warriors stands out. A 41-point game in a series they end up losing in six. He's had some other, like, great playoff hits.
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Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
He had two big shots in game one of this series, which ends up being one of two incredibly regrettable losses for the Clippers. I almost said the Rockets, the Clippers. Like... He was great against Dallas in game four, clutch shot after clutch shot, and then melted down in games five and six.
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Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I'm sorry that going for 40 when you're down 3-0 to the Warriors is cool and potentially clutch if you come back, but you don't. And I'm sorry that game six and game seven are more important than games one and game two. I'm sorry that the fourth quarter is more important than the first quarter. You can tell me every basket, every possession is equally important. They're all very important.
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Games can be decided in the first quarter and the second quarter. But when they're close and time is finite, every possession does carry a heavier weight. And the statistics are what they are. And since I wrote that article, Howard Beck, that was 2020. 2021, one of Harden's great playoff moments.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Steph crosses them over into an ISO three. And the game was kind of never really the same after that. Yeah, I thought he had a sensational game. And the Rockets' offense, all their worst nightmares came true throughout the entire series, minus a couple of Van Vliet hot shooting games and 1-1. one Jalen Green hot shooting game out of seven.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Guts it out for the Nets against the Bucs on one leg and plays like the entirety of game six and game seven and plays as well as possible. Awesome moment. 2022, Philly, Miami. The ball never found me. Okay. 2023, Philly, Boston. Three of 11 in game seven, four of 16 in game six. The entire team no-shows game seven. Last season, I went through two of 12 game five, five. I'm sorry that it's true.
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And he was, yeah, he had 13 assists. Awesome. Like they were forcing him to pass. Well, he's a great passer. The whole team played with such a malaise in that game that I will say this, like the, the, their future is like, not interesting. They're, they're going to have to decide on hard. And you know, is there, he's got a player option. Do they bring them back?
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They do not have a lot of maneuverability with this team, but, We always thought this team was sort of a placeholder, like competitive, fun, Inuit dome until they get their picks back, which they don't control until 2031. Or they get cap space and can lure a free agent the way they did Kawhi. And it turned out for a while to be better than that.
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Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
It was an elite team for half the season once Kawhi came back. And a 50-win team that, you know, people are going to shit on them, deservedly so, for the way they played in Game 7. They ended up playing an awesome team in the first round of the playoffs with the best player in the world and lost in Game 7. Not a shameful outcome. And Ty Lue said after the game,
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you know, look, I mean, I'd love to have Harden and Kawhi for a full season. Harden did a great job carrying the load without Kawhi, then we got Kawhi back. All these signings on the fringes, they nailed. And I'm like, cool, I'd love you to get to have Harden and Kawhi together for a full season. Like, there's really not much evidence to suggest that that's ever going to happen.
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This could end up being the best case scenario for this, what I've called the placeholder Clippers team. Really good season. really fun season should be lauded. However, I think it's actually okay to quote overreact to one game and say this taints the whole thing. This taints my view of Harden.
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Again, this taints my view of Kawhi, who was like great early in the series and just okay the rest of the series. I think it's okay when a game is this important and you get outplayed that badly to say, you know what? That colors my view of your entire season and colors my view of
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Is this just going to be like what we thought it was, which is a fun competitive placeholder as they likely bring back Harden and wait for Kai flexibility down the line. That was an awful, awful loss. And it does color my perception of the Clippers season. Sorry to be the guy overreacting to one game. It's game seven and you sucked from top to bottom. You suck. Yeah.
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I had him third team on my ballot. Third team All-NBA.
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Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And they are going home and the Warriors are moving on to face the Wolves. Fun game, tense game. Felt like the Rockets were the classic young team that was walking down the old guys and the old guys were getting tired. And then Steph got hot and they made enough plays late in the game.
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Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I picked Nuggets in seven for the record.
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You play like that in a decisive playoff game? Sorry.
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Norm is extension eligible too, by the way.
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And we just lauded the Warriors for being a fine, respectable team who won a game seven on the road. The difference is the Warriors haven't given up everything draft-wise and young player-wise to become a fine, respectable team. The Clippers have, and they made the conference finals once. Kawhi was injured in the middle of that playoff run. They've had a nice run. Yesterday was a disaster.
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Denver, awesome performance. Aaron Gordon, shout-out, just tough every game. Never have to worry about him showing up on either end. Christian Brown, ditto. We will talk more about Denver as we move forward. Greg Popovich.
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I built fake Kawhi trades for a pod like last summer or something. I don't remember what any of them were. It's not crazy, but teams just don't know. Yeah. if and when he's ever going to play. Greg Popovich retired. We must address that. I never got to know Greg Popovich personally. I've interviewed him a few times here and there, including for a story I wrote on Ginobili years and years ago.
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So I will not wax poetic about his meaning to basketball or me or whatever. I will say he's number one in wins of all time. maybe the greatest coach of all time. There's a couple of people who have an argument for that. And what I will remember of Greg Popovich is how ahead of the curve he and the Spurs were every time the league evolved.
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They rise as this defense-first juggernaut, just impossible to score. And Pop would have been the first one to tell you and was over and over again, that everything for him, for the franchise, starts and ends with number 21, with Tim Duncan. That's it. They don't win that lottery. He's probably been fired years and years ago.
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Then the league lifts the hand check out of the league, kind of bans the hand check. They immediately pivot to spread, pick and roll. Tony Parker unleashed, culminating in the beautiful game of 2013 and 2014. Finals appearance championship, heartbreak to championship, heartbreak to pop, consoling everyone at dinner the night of game six, the Ray Allen game.
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And in the beginning of next season, making everybody rewatch the games again to prepare for the run of revenge that happened. And that team not only symbolized sort of how the Spurs had evolved, it symbolized how Pop really believed basketball should be played, which is unselfishly. No one gets to dominate the ball. It's not about you.
The Zach Lowe Show
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It can be about you when it's your turn for it to be about you. It's not like you're never going to get to shoot or do cool moves. Those have to come in the context of how the game flows. And they were ahead of the curve on corner threes, along with the spread pick and roll. I don't know Pop personally. I've heard all the stories. I've talked to all the Pop coaching tree people. That's how...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I will choose to remember his career. And look, obviously, Pop had a stroke. My mom had a stroke three and a half years ago. I know how debilitating that is. Their cases are not comparable at all. From what I've heard, Pop is doing very, very well. But physically, it's just super taxing. And it's not surprising to anybody, I think, that this happened.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I know you have gotten to know Pop more than I have. You had a famous lockout interaction with him in 2011, I believe, on the street.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I yield the floor to you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Game six was legitimately alarming. To give away game five and be like, you know, we're just going to save everything for game six and just come out with zero juice at home and get rolled at the end of the game. It was legitimately like, oh, do they have enough left to finish this series?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I suspect you will be. Two other quick notes before we preview the second round. NBC announced over the weekend that they are bringing back Roundball Rock.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
and that they're going to broadcast starting lineup introductions for games. Oh, I missed that part. 10 out of 10, no notes. Welcome to the party, NBC. Awesome news. Okay, rapid-fire second-round previews, starting with Minnesota Golden State, Jimmy Butler, back for vengeance against a Minnesota team where, like, nobody is left from when he was there. Draymond Green versus Rudy Gobert, round 17.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Chokeholds. making fun of Rudy Gobert, crying, all of that. Warriors-Wolves, the 6-7 matchup in the second round. We're going to talk about it and make predictions. What's your first thought, Warriors-Wolves?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Shingun's a very good passer. Disagree.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So all of these things where he kicks Eason and he smacks Van Vliet are all like you could spin them as accidents. Like he's doing basketball stuff and then his limbs go where they go. I said this with Bill last week, and now I've figured out what it reminds me of. There's a scene in The Simpsons where Bart and Lisa are fighting.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And they both say... Lisa says, I'm just going to be kicking in my room. And if Bart... I'm just going to be kicking my feet constantly. And if Bart happens to walk into my legs, that's on him. And Bart's like, well, I'm just going to be... I think he's punching. I don't know what he's doing. I'm just going to be punching my arms out like this.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And if you happen to walk into it, well, that's on you. That's how Draymond is in these entanglements where... A normal person, most players, would sense a collision coming and try to recoil back a little bit with your arms. Not follow through the way you normally would. He's just like, I'm doing what I'm doing. Get out of the way. My follow through is coming. We're going to have a collision.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Get ready. It's happening. Okay. You inadvertently nailed the first question of... that is on my mind for this series, which is who are the Warriors starting? And can they start this small ball lineup that they've been starting off and on against the Rockets of Curry, Heald, Pajemski, Butler, Green against an enormous Minnesota team and an enormous Minnesota starting five.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And it boils down to this. Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green can only guard two of Anthony Edwards, Julius Randle, and Rudy Gobert. Now, you could find ways around that while keeping the same lineup. Maybe Brandon Pajemski is fine guarding Anthony Edwards. I don't really think so, but maybe he is. Maybe Brandon Pajemski can guard Rudy Gobert, and you can toggle the matchups that way.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Teams have put Smalls on Gobert plenty. He just did destroy the Lakers in an elimination game doing that. I think more likely the Warriors change the starting five again. That could mean upsizing. It could mean Gary Payton II starts for Buddy Heald because Gary Payton II has guarded Ant quite a bit.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And then you could have Butler on Randall, which I think is perfectly fine and tenable, and Draymond on Gobert or flip them how you want. I think Moody could start for the same reason. He's guarded Ant quite a bit. He could guard Gobert credibly if you want to, semi-credibly at least.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
if you want to finagle the matchups that way, either way, I think both of those guys, particularly Moody have a bigger role to play in this series. But every time you do that, you're sacrificing some shooting against a defense that is big and fast and mobile. So that's where I'm sort of starting in the series is how do they match up? Just who do they start and how do they match up?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
You mentioned, you know, the Warriors offense, and we know how they're going to attack. They're going to try to find Gobert, get them out in space, move the ball around. And that's why I mentioned Butler earlier. I think they're going to need a big Butler series to have a chance to beat Minnesota defensively.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
a better butler, a more dominant, physically imposing butler, a butler that's going to be like Mike Conley, you can't be on the floor. I'm going to beat the hell out of you. Dante DiVincenzo, you're bigger than Mike Conley. I'm going to beat the hell out of you. Nikhil Alexander Walker, you're even bigger and longer than DiVincenzo. I'm going to beat the hell out of you.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I'm going to get to the line. I'm going to play bully ball. And if they don't see that, Jimmy, I think offense is going to be... Um, not tough for them, but just, it may be tough. And, and, you know, the other upside about starting small is who does Julius Randall guard?
The Zach Lowe Show
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If the, if the, uh, if the Warriors start small, because Gobert is probably going to guard Draymond and well, does Julius Randall have to guard Jimmy Butler? You know, on the other side of the floor, um, You know, again, the matchups, like how much physically larger is Minnesota going to be than the Warriors, depending on who plays where, you know, and they're going to hunt Curry.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And the Warriors have switched Curry on to Ant quite a bit in previous matchups. Wiggins, by the way, was the guy who guarded Ant most of all for them. And he's obviously now gone. Yeah. And Steph has stood up well against Ant in a lot of those matchups. Ant really hasn't developed the back to the basket game that I thought he would at this point. And I think, you know, Randall...
The Zach Lowe Show
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Randall going at Curry is interesting to me, like Randall, whoever Curry is guarding pick and rolls, because that's a guy who can hurt you on switches. Like to your point about Randall early, he can hurt you on switch.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I just think that matchups, this is going to be a game one where I sort of sit back and soak up the matchups because I think everything is going to flow kind of from how teams attack are going to flow from there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Rapid fire, a few other things to watch. Minnesota can be turnover prone, and the Warriors have forced a lot of turnovers since acquiring Butler. Got to take care of the ball. Warriors take the second most threes in the NBA. Minnesota's defense allows the seventh fewest. That's a battleground there. How many threes can the Warriors get up?
The Zach Lowe Show
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Jada McDaniels is going to guard Steph quite a bit and has done fairly well against him. That's a really interesting matchup. Nas Reed with smaller defenders on him. Something I'm watching. And just flag it. Just flag this. Because of matchups and injuries and other things, Trace Jackson Davis has a lot of experience playing against the Timberwolves.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
If you go back and watch games from the last two years, he's been on the floor for a lot of it. Wouldn't shock me if he gets dusted off a little bit in the series. Predictions. I'll go first, Howard Beck. Wolves in six. Wolves in six. Again, I'm picking a road team closeout. I get it. I should pick Wolves in five. Wolves in five feels disrespectful to the Warriors. Seven feels too long.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Wolves in six. For some of the reasons you mentioned in terms of fatigue, Wolves move on to the conference finals.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Warriors could absolutely win the series. I'd be tempted to pick them, but it just feels foolish. Well, look, the wolves prove something to me against the Lakers, which is that they staved off the haywire factor, which I thought was going to work against them. They were steady. Ant was very steady making decisions when they put two on the ball.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Um, and you know, the Warriors have their own haywire factor too, that Jimmy has really helped them tamp down with the crazy turnovers and all of that. Um, It should be a great series. I can't wait. Speaking of I can't wait, Oklahoma City, Denver. This is the basketball fans second round series. This is so much fun. Oklahoma City hasn't played in what feels like a month.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And talk about a battle of a fresh team versus a team that just went through a slugfest. This is one. We got the MVP front runners going against each other. We have the Russell Westbrook vengeance tour, although there's no vengeance factor in this one, really, like there was against Clippers. By the way, Russ, look, I'm not a Russ guy. I've been hard on Russ. Sensational in that series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Sensational. And you want to say, oh, he's giving him his flowers now. Yeah, you know why? Because he averaged 14 points a game and made 42% of his threes and was a force of nature on the boards. Last year, I believe he was 13 of 50 from the field in the playoffs and was completely on tilt against the Mavericks. So yeah, he was way better. He was sensational in this series.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And the intentional technical foul for hanging on the rim when he teed himself up in almost perfect concert with the referee making the tee-up sign was glorious. One of my favorite postseason moments of all time. And now he gets to go to Oklahoma City where he'll always be beloved. There's no tension, anything there. He is a hero in Oklahoma City. And... The Thunder, okay, here we go.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
You get the best player in the world. You get a team that won the championship two years ago. This is the round you lost in last year. You won a million zillion games. I can't wait for this series. It starts tonight, so we're going to be a little quick. And this is this. And we barely got to see it during the regular season when they matched up.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And we really barely got to see it with Aaron Gordon on the floor because he got injured in the middle at the start of one of the games and then missed the next one. This is the Hartenstein Holmgren series. This is why you got this guy in free agency to emulate what Minnesota did against Jokic, which is put Hartenstein on Jokic and say, we're going to shade toward you in the post.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
We're going to send some help, but we're going to try not to double you. And some of that help is going to come from the seven foot shop locker who's on Aaron Gordon or sometimes Christian Brown or sometimes Russell Westbrook or sometimes one of many people that are going to be left open for the Denver Nuggets. And he's going to be the one waiting for you at the rim.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
That's a good percentage.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Now, they won't play that way the whole game. And the Holmgren only minutes are super interesting. And the Hartenstein only minutes are super interesting. I'm not sure there should be any big Jalen Williams only minutes, although he's guarded Jokic some too. To me, that's the first thing I'm going to be watching is Oklahoma City, how they guard Jokic, how much they can shrink the floor.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I mean, there is no better team. Giving the most voracious, fastest, longest, meanest defense in the NBA a team that is short on shooting to the point that if they take out one of Murray, Michael Porter Jr., or Jokic, it feels like their shooting collapses into a sinkhole. They can't even take out two of them at once now. They've rendered that impossible.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, and they needed it because they were running out of players. Gary Payton II was sick, missed the game. Quentin Post gradually rendered not playable in the series and played three minutes. Kaminga... I don't know if we're going to see Jonathan Kaminga again. Although he's played a lot against Minnesota in the regular season.
The Zach Lowe Show
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You give that defense a team that's got some non-shooters that they can help off of and recover back to... It feels like the toughest postseason test of Nikola Jokic's career. One where he's going to have to make do in tight spaces where he's going to have to find cutters in traffic and those cutters are going to have to finish in traffic.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I just can't wait to see this defense and particularly the two-headed big man monster against the best player in the world.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show, Howard Beck and I react to everything that happened over the weekend in the NBA. Warriors, Rockets, Game 7. Clippers, Nuggets, Game 7. Pacers, Cavs, Game 1. We look ahead to everything coming up in Round 2 of the NBA playoffs, which should be awesome. Plus, a special guest from my favorite current television show. I can't wait to talk hoops and severance with him.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And his size is important, potentially, in that matchup. It was a disaster. And Looney was awesome off the bench. Moody, who I think they're going to really need in this Minnesota series... looked a little overwhelmed by the moment, and his misses were like bonk off the backboard, bonk, like not even close misses. And without Buddy Heald, they don't win the game. And Buddy Heald went bananas.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Imagine being Jamal Murray. Lou Dort's going to start on him. Going to get a little case on Wallace. That's no fun. Then Caruso comes in. Caruso is going to guard everybody. Caruso is going to guard Aaron Gordon. He's guarded Jokic before, like on purpose and in mixed up schemes just to switch it up. I don't know how much, if ever, we'll see that. And he's going to guard Murray.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And, you know, the Memphis series, if you can remember it, it's ancient history. It's clear that they've saved Caruso. It was clear during the regular season they were load managing Caruso for the playoffs. And he has emerged as, you know, if there's a sixth starter slash closer in place of one of the big guys, it's going to be him. And he was awesome against Memphis.
The Zach Lowe Show
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The matchups are going to be Dort on Murray. SGA will guard Michael Porter Jr. J-Dub will guard Christian Brown. And then the big guys on the big guys. That's the starting matchups. That's tough. And by the way, Jamal Murray... A lot of the Denver angst has been justifiably about the bench, which is thin.
The Zach Lowe Show
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A lot of it also was they've got two guys making max or max-ish money who are not producing at max or max-ish levels. And every team structure falls away if max guys don't perform at max levels. Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr. gutting out a shoulder injury. Jamal Murray in the playoffs, 23 points a game, six assists, five rebounds. 48% shooting, 40% on threes.
The Zach Lowe Show
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That's on par shooting efficiency-wise with his championship run. Now, the points per game are down by three because his usage is down, but he's playing awesome again. And if he's playing awesome, Denver has a chance against anybody because they have the best guy. And so Denver has a chance in this series if Jamal Murray keeps playing like that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I just can't wait to see how Denver's offense responds to this challenge. I think something to watch is how closely Hartenstein and Jokic's minutes are matched. Like Jokic plays almost the whole game. Hartenstein won't. The other minutes are going to be really interesting because when Holmgren guards Jokic, they're just going to go right to the post every single time. And they should.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And because Holmgren is big and long as he is, he'll get a block every now and then he can't, He cannot sustain against Jokic in the post. And then you say, okay, we'll just help. And like, okay, Christian Brown beat us with threes. Aaron Gordon, you shot 45% from maybe the three. We're still going to dare you. It's still hard for Shed Holmgren. And it's still hard for the Thunder.
The Zach Lowe Show
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To wit, I was watching film of Jokic's post-ups against the Thunder this year. And I was like, man, this is a lot of post-ups. And I looked it up. For the season, he averaged 11 post-ups per 100 possessions. Against the Thunder, that went up to 15 and a half. So he posted up a lot and he posted up Holmgren a lot. And maybe you have to have big Jalen Williams in there when Hardenstein is out.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And if you do, I think that's a win for the Nuggets. Thunder offense, let's switch sides of the floor. Nuggets have matched up with Christian Brown on... Shay, good luck. That's so fun. Jokic on Hartenstein. Aaron Gordon on Jalen Williams. Michael Porter Jr. on Chet Holmgren. That's a pivot point in this series. Michael Porter Jr. on Chet Holmgren. Put him in pick and roll. Hunt him down.
The Zach Lowe Show
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They lost him in the zone a few times, made a couple of contested twos, which were big shots. Every basket felt like oxygen at times in this game for the Warriors when the Rockets were kind of walking them down and Shingun was imposing his size. He was only 9 of 23. I also want to shout out Draymond, by the way. I made fun of the threes, and he made two, and then he missed six.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I didn't think... I didn't think the Clippers hunted Michael Porter Jr. enough, particularly since he's playing with one shoulder. I think the Thunder will. How much can Holmgren punish him as a shooter? How much punish him as a shooter, driver, whatever? And does Holmgren make enough shots that on pick and pops, they start sending a third guy rotating at him? Because if that happens...
The Zach Lowe Show
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the series really begins to lean or at least that little battle really begins to lean toward Oklahoma City. I think this is a really fascinating matchup and the defensive matchups, by the way, obviously get a lot friendlier for the Nuggets when Russ comes in for Michael Porter Jr. You can slide everybody over or Peyton Watson comes in and you can slide everybody over.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I just think the shooting reaches a point where it's asking so much of Jokic to create with just a swarm of dudes around him. Um, a couple other notes, uh, The free throw differential needs to be huge for Denver. Oklahoma City fouls a ton and they're okay with that because they get all the benefits of it. They're number one in turnovers, force, et cetera.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And they also don't get to the line at offense. Denver is the opposite. They don't foul and they get to the line a lot. I'm talking like plus eight to 10 attempts per game for Denver if they want to win this series. And obviously, Denver needs to protect the ball. They're average at that. Oklahoma City is incredible at it. I can't wait for this tonight.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Do you have any thoughts, and then we can do our predictions?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
One last thing I forgot to, by the way, Pickett, Strother, obviously you got essentially nothing in the last round, you know, who will give them something out of this general group. Watson gave them stuff and they needed every bit of it. Interesting thing about the Thunder against Jokic and the Murray-Jokic pick and roll.
The Zach Lowe Show
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They have been loathe to switch, much less so than almost any team of film I've watched against the Nuggets. We saw the Clippers would do that late switch when Jokic would pop out. They were scared enough of his three-pointer to switch on him, and then he'd go into the post. They'd do it late, but they would do it. The Thunder almost never do that.
The Zach Lowe Show
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They trust Hartenstein and Holmgren to contain and get back to Jokic, and they are fine with Jokic shooting semi-open, semi-contested, however you want to characterize them, threes.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Five of seven on twos. That's a lot of two-point baskets for Draymond Green, and they were mostly not easy shots. All of those were like oxygen.
The Zach Lowe Show
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which means another pivot point in this series, another must-lean Denver's way for them to win the series, is Jokic is going to have to shoot well from three, and he's going to have to get a lot of momentum on pump, drive, and then create in tight spaces on that exact play.
The Zach Lowe Show
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If they're not going to switch, and they're not going to send a third guy rotating to him, they're going to make him create like that, and he can do it. I am picking Thunder in six. Wow. In six? Out of an abundance of... I have too much respect for Denver. Yeah. they don't lose in short series when Jokic is healthy and the team around him, he's always healthy.
The Zach Lowe Show
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When Murray and Porter have been healthy, they do not lose in short series. So I'm just, I have too much respect for Jokic. I wanted to go five and I'm like, you know what? Six, I'll go six again.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Nick Celtics begins earlier tonight, so it'll be a little bit quicker. Celtics getting healthier, it sounds like, on the Drew Holiday front. The Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum fronts, wrist and knee, respectively. The other way around, actually.
The Zach Lowe Show
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And the Knicks just gutted out a tough one against the Pistons, highlighted by a crazy Jalen Brunson crossover into a three to put them ahead and cap a big, big rally. Just incredible Jalen Brunson stuff. This has obviously been a nightmare matchup for the Knicks. The Celtics won all four games. They scored... 130 points for 100 possessions against the Knicks defense.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Completely gashed the Knicks. And they set the blueprint right away. I mean, they didn't set it. Other people have done it for defending the Knicks, which is they're going to put a wing on Carl Anthony Towns. It'll usually be one of the Jays. And they're going to put... Kristaps Porzingis on Josh Hart and have him be a roamer.
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And as we saw with the Pistons, the Knicks have sort of, sometimes they hit it, sometimes they don't, sometimes they find counters, sometimes they don't. It just sort of takes them out of the rhythm and flow that they just want to be in. Um, Drew Holiday has generally guarded Jalen Brunson. That's no fun when Drew Holiday is guarding you.
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They obviously have a plethora, to use your word, of guys who can switch on to anybody on the Knicks. And one sort of indication of how committed the Celtics are to putting a wing on Towns and taking away his pick and pop game.
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When they go too big against the Knicks, when they put like, let's say, Horford, Cornette, Horford, Przingis, and the Knicks just have Towns, they will sometimes put neither big on Towns, even in that situation. They'll put one on Hart and one on Bridges or Ananobi and just say, hey, deal with this. How about these mind games? We're still not putting a wing on you. And one of the counters...
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In this series, I think he had 20 in a game.
The Zach Lowe Show
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for this scheme is to use Josh Hart as a screener. It's like, you're going to put your centers on Josh Hart. We're going to have to use Josh Hart as a screener. Cat can space. That makes a lot of sense. Josh Hart set an enormous amount of screens against the Celtics in the four games this season, according to Second Spectrum.
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Two of his top four ball screen frequency games were against the Celtics. Four of his top 19 were That feels like the Celtics directing the Knicks offense in places where it doesn't necessarily want to go, but can still work. And, you know, on the other end, the Celtics offense is awesome. And we could talk about how the Knicks might defend it. I think the Knicks are tough.
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Maybe a hair underrated. They look a little bit scattered right now, and this is not a good team to be scattered against.
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Or with Josh Hart getting called for the foul that he committed against Tim Hardaway Jr.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Well, look, we can talk all about how Boston matches up defensively and this and that. If they score 130 points per 100 possessions, it doesn't matter. And so the Knicks defense has to be a lot better than they were against Boston in the regular season. We know what Boston is going to do. We know what they're going to do. They're going to hunt Brunson relentlessly.
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If there's one thing Boston is never guilty of, it's letting an opposing star who's maybe a little bit of a weak spot on defense off the hook. They're going to go at him and they're going to go at Katz. And it's cool you have these three interchangeable huge wings in between them. They're all really good. We're not going to go at them. We're going to go at the weak spots.
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They're going to run cat ragged. They're going to try to. Cat's going to start guarding Porzingis. And let's stay creative. Let's take it creative. Not really a word you'd associate with a Tom Thibodeau defense, but there's a world in which they can move Cat around a little bit. It's tempting to say, could he go guard Drew Holiday?
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The problem with that is Jalen Brunson has to guard someone and they don't want it to be Derek White. They definitely don't want it to be one of the Jays. It's kind of got to be Drew Holiday too. And so that limits your flexibility. So they're going to run Cat in a bunch of Porzingis pick and pops. They're going to run him through screens on the way to the pick and pop.
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So he's even further behind the play. they know that they can fake him the wrong way by kind of faking toward a screen or flipping the screen. He's prone to guessing wrong. And look, Porzingis hasn't shot the three well in the playoffs and, if he starts hitting enough of them, then you got to send that third rotator flying at him and then you're scrambling and then you're in big, big trouble.
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It's just, it's been a tough matchup for the Knicks defensively. The Celtics know exactly where they want to go at all times. I will say the one benefit of cat guarding Porzingis is, and this goes to your point about Brunson and stubbornness and slowness. Both of these teams play slow.
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I think the Knicks have a greater urgency to play a little bit faster in this series, both to maximize heart as a passer and a distributor and just a one-man crazy fast break, but also... If Kat's guarding Porzingis, that means Porzingis is going to be stuck on Kat now and then after stops. They have to attack.
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Anytime the center is on Kat, abort the entire offensive plan, whatever it is, and go right into the Brunson-Kat pick-and-roll or the Bridges-Kat pick-and-roll, empty side on the left side, whatever. Use that against the Celtics because that is what you got Kat for. And when you are gifted that... as you often were against the pistons for various reasons, you must use it. This is not the pistons.
The Zach Lowe Show
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You cannot fritter away these possessions by doing other useless stuff here and there. And then asking Brunson to create with five on the shot clock, use it when you have it. Um, I don't know. I mean, what else do you want to say? There's a lot of interesting little battles. I mean, Boston takes the most threes. The Knicks don't give up a lot of threes. The Knicks also don't take threes.
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And I think another fundamental problem that they're facing is just math. Boston's offense is so good. The Knicks are 27th in three-point rate. It's just going to be hard to beat Boston four times when they're going to have two games in seven where they shoot 45% from three or whatever it is, and they just bury you.
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And you're going to have one game where you don't take enough threes and you're cold and you shoot five for 26 and you're just math out of the game. Assuming good health for the Celtics, I'm going to go Celtics in five.
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That's cool. Charmed. Charm loses. That's cool. Charm's cute until you're playing four. You have four guys left in your head and you lose. Yeah, fair. Okay, we both have Celtics in five. This is going to be a chalk, chalk, chalk prediction round, I think, for everybody. Quick reaction to Indiana-Cleveland game one. The Pacers storm into the series. Good at basketball, the Indiana Pacers.
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Win game one on the road. Shoot the lights out from three. Darius Garland still out. I picked Cavs in five. That's not going great. That prediction is off to a flying start. I thought Garland would be ready for game one. I was wrong. he obviously changes the entire series in multiple ways. It's harder to hide Tyrese Halliburton defensively.
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Now the non Donovan Mitchell minutes have Darius Garland. Now they calves are kind of searching for an offensive identity in those minutes. If there is one thing that you want to take and digest and talk about from game one, what is it? I mean, I have mine. I can go first, but what, what, what did you notice? What did you find interesting?
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Ty Jerome is not playing around out there. Howard was out there to score. Okay. He's out there to do his floater where he's like on the way down and leaning back. It looks like it's going to have no chance. And it goes in. Ty Jerome is out there to score. He's out there to flex. He's out there to shoot logo threes.
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He is not messing around the Orlando magic and their cap states are watching right now.
The Zach Lowe Show
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No, 20 is not enough. If Darius Garland's out, I got to get minimum 25 shots from Ty Jerome.
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Nine times. Okay, you're baiting me.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Speaking of that, you said jazz, just said the word jazz. We should mention Will Hardy got a contract extension this morning. And you know what? Good on the jazz. This is how you treat a young coach, a rising young coach who pretty much everyone in the league agrees is at least a good coach, potentially a great one.
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And you put him through the ringer, no pun intended, of crap teams and bogus injuries to the point that the league finally finds you and rebuild and half tank and then full tank and half tank. Oh, we're going to pull the rug out from under your team halfway through, halfway through again. And this year, we're just not even going to have a rug. The rug is gone.
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Butler had such an interesting series and interesting game seven, 20 points, eight rebounds, seven assists, seven of 13 shooting, made a couple of big jump shots late in the game. He doesn't feel like Jimmy Butler to me yet. And then you look at the numbers and he's averaging 18, six and four, still getting to the line seven times a game, making his twos.
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You're going to be crap from the beginning. We're going to handcuff you in every possible way. This is what you do. You give them years, you give them security, and you give them money. Will Hardy, you earned that money. You're a good coach. Congratulations. Cavs Pacers. I don't know what the hell I was going to say. First of all, I ain't worried.
The Zach Lowe Show
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I'm worried about my Cavs in five prediction, but I ain't worried about the Cavs yet. The one thing I'm going to watch is this, and we saw this with the Bucs too against the Pacers. The Cavs switched a lot yesterday on defense. Now, they've really, to Kenny Atkinson's credit, been a pretty diverse defensive team this year. They've done more switching than you would expect, given their personnel.
The Zach Lowe Show
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They've experimented with zones. They've done a lot of stuff. It's not like they're doing something that's completely out of pocket for them, and so thus you're going to struggle. It's something you have no practice in. They switched on 36 ball screens. That's tied for the third most in any game this year.
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Indiana scored 1.3 points per possession and about 1.2 points per possession directly out of those plays. That's a lot. It's too much. The reason they are switching and the reason the Bucks switched, despite the Bucks not having personnel that could switch and stay in front of Tyrese Halliburton,
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is that these teams, these defenses have so much respect for Halliburton and such fear of Indiana's offense, putting them in a blender where it's just catch and shoot three, catch and shoot three, catch and shoot three, that they are willing to switch and live with bad matchups, live with Pascal Siakam posting up Sam Merrill or Donovan Mitchell, live with Jared Allen, who started the game on Pascal Siakam and defended him for the most part, which I thought was interesting, live with Jared Allen on Tyrese Halliburton.
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And you want to blow by him and get a floater? Fine. Pascal Siakam, you take fadeaway jumpers in the post. Miles Turner, you take fadeaway jumpers in the post. Guess what? Those are twos. They're not threes. And some of those twos are going to be easy. They're going to be wide open layups. They're going to be dunks, whatever. They're not threes.
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And I think both the Bucs and now the Cavs are over worrying about the Pacers offense and switching too much. And I expect the Cavs to keep switching. I think they'll switch a little bit less. And you saw in game one, Like you can't switch and still give up catch and shoot threes. And that happened too many times in game one. A lot of that is fixable.
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So what you'll see is they'll switch and a guard will be on Siakam or Turner in the post. And someone will come from the wing, a bigger defender and rescue those guys. They call it a scram switch and say, you get out, go on the perimeter. I'll take your guy. And they were a train wreck on those scram switches in game one. They totally were confused. They weren't communicating well.
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And so there'd be a mismatch in the post. Neesmith hit a back-breaking three with like four and a half minutes to go in the game. When Hunter tried to scram Donovan Mitchell out of the post on Miles Turner, I think, And Donovan Mitchell was tangled up and could not get out and go guard Neesmith. And Neesmith was just wide open and shot a three and made it. That happened a bunch of times.
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Eventually Tyrese Halliburton, if you let him dance with Jared Allen over and over again, he's going to have a game where he makes five step back threes. And when he doesn't make five step back threes, he's going to draw so much defense that it's going to be a dunk. Pascal Siakam got an and one in the post on Donovan Mitchell. That's a three point play.
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It doesn't, he, and again, he's recovering from an injury that maybe you'd be sitting out right now if this were not the playoffs and, It didn't feel, despite the numbers, like he was imposing his will on the game the way we've seen him do in the playoffs before. Now, granted, the Rockets are a very physical team. They do not have a lot of guys you can bully. Even Van Vliet is like a fire hydrant.
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Your whole switching scheme is designed to not give up threes. You're giving up threes anyway. I just think teams like... Can I see Miles Turner make some semi-contested pick-and-pop threes before I start contorting my entire defense to stop that shot from happening? Siakam made a pick-and-pop three over, I believe, a Mobley closeout early in the game. It was a good closeout.
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It was a contested three. He made it. Cool. Make it again four more times. You can switch... They switched 36 ball screens. I'd like, can that number be 25? If that number goes to 25, because I do think switching and holding them to twos has some value. Can it go to 25?
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So you still switch a lot and you clean up the scrams and you clean up, like I thought they overhelped and down low a few times and had open threes. Clean that up. I think there's a better formula there and maybe they can switch just as much and clean up the scrams and the other mistakes and it works just as well. I would just dial it back a little. Make Miles Turner make some post-up baskets.
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Now, to his credit, he's gotten much better at that, particularly against small players. That's what I'm watching in particular, in addition, rather, to Garland's health. I'm not worried about the Cavs yet. You know what I am worried about? Their shirts. The diff? The diff is what you're going with? On the shirts, the diff is so stupid.
The Zach Lowe Show
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For those who don't know, the diff is something they put on their scoreboard. It stands for the difference. And it's literally the difference in the game. So if the score is 29-25, it'll say Cleveland 29, Indiana 25. The diff plus four. Like, thanks. Really needed the diff column. It was stupid enough on the scoreboard. Now it's your shirt.
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The diff versus yes, sirs is the greatest possible gap in shirt cleverness in the NBA playoffs ever. And just like the Celtics deserve to start games down 5-0 when they wear their stupid black jerseys that nobody likes, the Cavs deserve to start yesterday's game down 5-0 for the stupid diff shirt. And the basketball gods punished them with a lush. Light those shirts on fire.
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Wear something else for game two.
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That's what I said. That's what I mean.
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It's like, thanks. I'm watching the game. I can do 29 minus 25. I don't need the diff to do it for me.
The Zach Lowe Show
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The Humongatron? That's what they call the scoreboard. The Humongatron. Poor John Michael on Playbop has to be like, oh, they just showed the replay on the Humongatron because he's... corporate mandates that he call it the humongatron and not the jumbotron. Oh, my God.
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I disagree. I disagree. And Howard, I think respectfully, I'm more fashionable than you. I think I have a good eye for fashion. All right. There's a contest no one needs. Nobody needs it. We covered a lot of ground. Thank you for soldiering on the YouTube live. I don't know how that went. I haven't looked in the chat. Maybe everyone's being funny. I have no idea. I can't watch that task.
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I'm too old to multitask. Sorry, chat people. But it was fun. And we will do this every other Monday on the Zach Lowe Show. And so that means two Mondays from now. Be ready. Be ready, Howard Beck. And thank you for your time. We now have podcast listeners. We'll get to listen to Zach Cherry from Severance talk about my favorite show in his NBA fandom. Howard Beck, thank you, sir. Thank you, Zach.
The Zach Lowe Show
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Van Vliet really became like Kyle Lowry 2.0. It's bizarre how similar they are as players on both ends of the floor after playing together, of course, in Toronto. Van Vliet got him in the post once and took the ball away in the second half of the game. But it doesn't Like they're going to beat Minnesota. They're going to need the Jimmy Butler who can pop off for 35 on a moment's notice.
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All right. This is a special treat. Anytime somebody on a show or in a movie that I love also outs themselves as an NBA fan, I'm like a shark. I jump on it. I beg them. I cajole them. I ask them to come on the podcast. We have Zach Cherry. who plays Dylan G on Severance. And I am not cool, and I am not hip, and I am always way behind on anything that is cool and hip, except for this show.
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I was on the road in Los Angeles, up late, insomnia. Nothing to do in my hotel room. It's like this concept sounds cool. Let me watch the first episode. I've been in from the beginning. It's been awesome the whole way through. And Zach Cherry, as Dylan, has been one of the shining stars of the show. It is a joy to see you and meet you. Nice to meet you, by the way. Thanks for coming on.
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Yeah, I can confirm you were an early adopter because I remember you reached out like really early during season one and said you were watching, which was very cool. Very exciting for me.
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Needless to say, anyone who has not watched Severance and would like to watch Severance, it's 2025. Spoilers may occur in the next 25 minutes of conversation. You have been forewarned. You live in Bushwick in Brooklyn with your wife.
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I suspect that in the blink, what feels like a blink of an eye for you, life went from no one ever recognizes me to I cannot leave my apartment without being recognized anymore and walk my dog in Bushwick and go to Prospect Park. Like how dramatic has it been?
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Yeah, it's been it's been somewhere in between both of those where like even before the show, people would recognize me from occasional things from Spider-Man. I get a lot. People people tell me to do a flip, which is a thing I say in the Spider-Man movie. But yeah, it's been wild, especially this season. And we do have a little dog who's very, very anxious.
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So she has had to get used to meeting a lot of new people.
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Has it been fun for you?
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Yeah, it's been amazing. It's it's crazy how much people have, you know, like kind of connected to the show and especially the second season. It's been like a real whirlwind.
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How how do you handle the lag time between shooting and airing with people in your life probably asking you lots and lots of questions that you cannot answer?
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I either lie to them and say I don't know the answer or I maybe genuinely don't know the answer. But yeah, just take it one day at a time. Get busy with other stuff. It's like, you know, it's not our show definitely did take a really long time. There were there were reasons for that with this season. We were interrupted by the strikes and that like put a big pause on it.
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But it's not that unusual now to kind of, you know, shows used to come out every year and now now they don't. It's kind of just like how things work these days.
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And it just didn't feel like he was that guy in the series, which is why they needed heel and NBA, but Jemski and Moody are going to be up and down on threes. That's just how it is. And that's why they needed buddy healed. And they got buddy healed. Can I tell you my favorite stuff play from the game, by the way, hit me. The threes are cool. We all know.
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But this is a particularly sort of mystery box show. And I honestly, I have not had a mystery box show in my life since the X-Files. That's how I like I miss lost completely. And I know there's been a lot of parallels. I forgot how exciting it is to be like. what the fuck is going on here? And like, it's a sensation. It's a sensation. I really love my wife who does not watch the show.
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Cause it's just too dark and suspenseful for her. She does not like the sensation of not knowing what's going on. And I'm like, that's the point. And that's the thrill of it. It's so much fun.
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Yeah, it is. And I think it's been cool watching it build. When the show first came out, it kind of came out in a vacuum and we didn't really know what people would think of it. And it's kind of a weird show that's hard to describe. And it has been really fun watching...
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you know, like the various online communities spring up that are kind of dedicated to unpacking everything that's going on in the show. And regularly they will catch things that I had not noticed, even though I'm part of it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show Monday. We are live on YouTube, apparently. I don't really know how any of this works, but I know this. It is time to say the three most anticipated words in niche basketball podcasting and apparently live streaming. What up, Beck?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Now, we are going to talk about the NBA shortly, but I have to ask one more severance question before we go that way. And then I'm going to annoy you with other severance questions. How do you how does the script rollout happen? Like, do you get them episode by episode? Like, I don't know how the shooting schedule works. Do you get the whole season's worth of scripts at once?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Like, how much do you know? in advance. I mean, I've read that you only like to read your lines. And so you don't know like what else is going on in the show. I don't know how true that is, but I'm just like, how fast does this go script by script by script?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So I do, I do read the whole script that that's from the severance podcast. I do a bit on where they have me like make predictions, but because I've read the scripts, obviously I can't make real predictions. So we, we kind of fudge it a little bit and pretend I don't really know what's going on. But it worked a little different in season one and season two.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Season one, I think we had all the scripts when we started. So we knew the whole season. Season two, we were kind of like walked through the arc of the season for our characters. And then we would get the scripts as they finished. We were kind of like shooting as we went for season two. And we shoot it a little different, like...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
We shoot it almost more like a movie where we block shoot, where we'll kind of shoot a bunch of scenes in each location across multiple episodes. So we don't quite shoot it in order just because it is such a big, complicated show. I think that's just like the easiest way to do it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
OK. We're going to pivot to the NBA before I get annoying. Explain to people, you followed me on what is now X. I will always call it Twitter. And I was like, oh, I got a little like verified follower. OK, that's it. Oh, look at this. It's a guy on my favorite show. But you have an you have a very modern approach to NBA fandom, apparently. Please explain.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
He hit the one from the logo in the first half on a pick and roll that the Rockets didn't see coming. And by the time you see it coming, it's like, oh, it's in the net. Okay. Just a classic 35-footer from Steph. If you go back, there's about a minute left in the third quarter. And this is when the Warriors are starting to extend the lead back from three to like nine.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I have been, you know, reading and listening to you for a long time. And there's my dog. Yeah. Oh, no, she's going north. I can't hear her. It doesn't matter. Okay, great. All right. Yeah, so, you know, I don't have, like, necessarily a team that's my team.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Although I will say now that I've been in New York for 10, 12 years, I have become more and more of a Knicks and Nets fan because it's like... Especially the Knicks. It's really fun being in New York when the Knicks are good and when the Knicks are winning and people are excited and everyone's talking about, did you catch the game last night? That is a lot of fun.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
But yeah, I've kind of always just watched the league as a whole. I have players that I love. LeBron's always been one of my guys who I kind of follow and love. I grew up in New Jersey and we had this like... high school basketball tournament in my hometown in Trenton and LeBron played in it a couple of years in a row. So I like got to see him in high school.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So I've kind of always, you know, been rooting for him. And, but yeah, I don't, I don't have like a team. That's my diehard NBA team. Okay. Who are your other, who are your other guys?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Like who are the guys that you have a soft spot for stars, non-stars? Like who just, who just strikes your fancy?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I am a huge Brunson fan right now. I love Ant. I love Giannis. I mean, he's basically just all the best players. I'm like a little kid who's just like, that guy's good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
LaMelo Ball? I mean, if you like LaMelo Ball, then you're really like a little kid. All the little kids love LaMelo Ball.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I do like LaMelo, but I'll be honest, I haven't watched as many LaMelo games as I could have.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I can imagine a regular person with a regular job that's not in the NBA is like, I'm not deep diving on the LaMelo Ball, Musa Diabate pick and roll combination. Yeah, I'm not there yet. Is Stiller going to hook you up at one of these Knicks games? I mean, when is this going to happen? Maybe you've been courtside and I missed. I missed it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah, I've been to a couple with him. During season one, we went to a playoff game together, and that was crazy. Which game? It was Knicks-Heat. I think, and it was maybe game... Might have been game one, game two. I do remember the Knicks lost. And I remember thinking, well, I might not be invited back because I'm now, you know, bad vibes for that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
But then we also went to a game early this season. And it was, I think it was... Nick's wolves, which was very exciting, but I think cat wasn't playing maybe. So it was, you know, a little bit of the, you know, excitement was, was missing, but it was awesome. It's awesome to go sitting courtside is crazy.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
It's like, it, it honestly feels like there's so much happening that it's kind of hard to process for me still. But yeah, it was, it was very cool going with him to a couple of games.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I'm guessing a few players while sitting courtside have come and talked to Ben and also to you. Have any talked to have any like noted you specifically from like, oh, man, I love Dylan on severance. What's the what's the best player interaction on the courtside games?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah. So I actually, I also have been to, so for some context, my wife and I are now massive New York Liberty fans. There you go. And so we've gotten to know some of the people there. So we got to go to a couple of Nets games this year and stay courtside. And during one of those games, RJ Barrett came over and he was like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And boy, did a nine-point lead in this series feel like 20 at times. Yeah. And Steph sets an off-ball screen on Draymond's guy, and Draymond gets a layup in the lane. And you're like, I've seen that a million times before. Like, Steph is the greatest little guy screener of all time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I don't know exactly what he's doing, but he was sort of like, oh, no, I'm severed. I'm severed. And I think he was kind of doing his impression of the elevator transition, like his eyes, you know, going from innie to outie. So that was pretty cool. And Garrett Temple said hi at that point, too. So, yeah, that that has been wild. It's been very, very, very cool.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So I heard that Kat is a big fan, but I haven't got to meet him yet.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Oh, well that's going to happen. Stiller is like, he's, he's intense during these games.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
He is so locked in. Like I actually remember during season one, we were still shooting during the playoffs and we were getting towards the end of the season. So it was like some intense scenes and he would have his phone right next to his director's monitor and he would have the camera feed up on, on the monitor and he would have the Knicks game up on his phone and
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
and kind of be going back and forth because he's like, he's so, uh, plugged into what's happening with the Knicks. You saw it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
He and, and Chalamet were both in Detroit for at least one. I was like, God damn. They're like, they're really all in on this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah. It's he, he is, he's, he's like a Superman. And that has made me more of a Knicks fan. Cause it's like, partially I'm just like, I just want them to win. So he has a good day. Um, uh,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
It's like my daughter and her swim coach. Anyway, you've mentioned also that you like to when you're in a new city and there's an NBA game, you like to you like to sort of experiment, like, let's check out this arena. Has there been any arena that you're like, man, I like the feel of this place or any game that ended up just randomly like this? This Hornets game was super fun.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah, I was in Toronto for work for for like a month at one point and went to a couple of Raptors games. And that was I loved the vibe there. This year, some friends and I, we went to we went to Vegas to watch the tournament semis, which was which was fun. It was like exciting to be there. I will say, though, it was missing what I love about being in
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
The other arenas is like the home crowd and like experiencing that. And so for the semis, because it was like a neutral site, it was missing that kind of like intensity that you can get in certain places. But yeah, I think the Raptors was like my favorite kind of road experience that I've had.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
That's what Toronto people are going to like. You're going to be aggregated and you're going to be like an honorary Canadian. Well, they're so insane.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
We all know the power of the best shooter of all time setting screens and what it does for the rest of his teammates. The screen was on Steven Adams. And if you go back and watch it, it is shoulder to shoulder. Both of them are kind of accelerating into the screen and it rocks both. Like they both vibrate from the impact. And you're like, that's Steph Curry. How much weight is he giving up there?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I will say, you know, I don't have like a team, but the Vince Carter, when he was on the Raptors, was one of my guys growing up. So like I used to have Raptors shirts and stuff like I was. They were one of my kind of like honorary teams. I always have a soft spot for the Raptors.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
They brought back the Purple Dinosaurs this year on their throwback jerseys. Yeah, I love it. They looked awesome. Okay, it's time for me to nerd out. Unless you have other NBA commentary you want to get. Do you have any hot takes? Any MVP commentary? Like, this is the place to get it out. Hottest Zach Cherry NBA takes. Let's go. I do.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Well, it's not exactly a hot take, but I was talking to my friends about this, who I have to say, my friends, this is the most excited for anything I've done they've ever been. Yes! All my basketball-watching friends, my high school buddies, are, like, freaking out. I told them I was coming on the show, and they can't believe it. So this is major credit for me.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Okay, so the reverse is also true. People are like... And Zach Dillon, he's like the most funny part of Severance. Oh, my God. So, yes, that's awesome to hear.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Perfect synergy for us. And I was taught, first of all, we were trying to figure out, I claim this is my idea. They don't believe it was my idea. They think that I must have heard this somewhere. But I have a pitch that I think would be fun, which is, I think, and obviously this will never happen, but it's, you know, you're on the ringer.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
You're in the world of sports pitches that aren't based in reality. I would love if when NBA teams defeat a team in the playoffs, they got to select one player that... to add to their roster and just collect players as the playoffs go on. I think that would be incredible.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
This is insane because last week, the very last episode I did, I said that the Cavs beat the Heat so badly in their sweep, like they beat it by 51 games, that they should actually get to pick a member of the heat to join their team. Like if you get, if you beat a team that badly, maybe, and I said, maybe the heat can protect like bam out of bio and title hero. Like it's an expansion draft.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
This is incredible. I like it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Because I think it should only be for that run of the playoffs. You don't get to keep them for the next season, but it would be so fun to like, I was just thinking, I was watching warriors rockets last night. And I was like, if the warriors could add a men Thompson to, to like get in there with Draymond and just wreak havoc, it would be incredible. So I'm putting that theory out there.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
It's possible. I heard it somewhere. My friends don't believe that I made it up. I, I don't remember hearing it somewhere else. So I'm sure your listeners will have heard if it's out there somewhere, they will know where it comes from. So yeah, I have not heard it. So I think you're you get the credit is what I'll try and popularize it, even if I didn't come up with it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So let's get some momentum going. Get Adam Silver on the phone. If you have his number, we can maybe get me in a meeting with him and I'll kind of pitch this.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
When he comes on my podcast and this will happen, I'm going to ask this question and just see what he says because now I have to. Okay, Severance. I love Severance. I love everything about Severance. I actually rewatched the entire first season, which I've never done before in preparation for season two. I've never done that for any show. The long gap had something to do with it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Definitely.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And it really and it really helped. I had forgotten like the whole PD subplot. I had kind of forgotten. OK, so I watched and listened to a bunch of your interviews. You have said that if you could take one prop from the set, it would be the John Turturro watermelon head, which is one of the spookiest things I've ever seen. Yeah, obviously you don't have that prop. What do you have from the set?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Have you actually taken anything from the set?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
You know, I think I maybe have... I think I have one of the caricature portraits somewhere that are sitting on my cubicle. It's like me surfing and stuff. I think I have one of those somewhere, but I don't have a ton of stuff. We have a couple of like... little swag things they've given us. They gave us all after season one, they gave us all crystal heads like Adam has on his desk of ourselves.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
80 pounds, a hundred pounds. I don't even know what it is to being like, I am going to throw my body. my little skinny body is stronger than you think, but still into a guy that is considered the toughest, strongest, least movable human playing basketball. And by the way, what a redemption season for Steven Adams. What a wonderful story. Him coming back to health and blocking shots.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So I have that somewhere, which is pretty cool, but I have not, I haven't taken home much of the set.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
By the way, you mentioned Adam Scott, if you're listening. It's now famously known that Ben Stiller had to really fight for Adam Scott to get that role. Adam Scott, if you ever hear this, A-plus. I mean, it's A-plus for all of you guys. The acting is incredible. But good for Ben Stiller for fighting for it. And Adam Scott has paid it off in spades. Okay. Okay.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
By the way, Tramiel Tillman, who plays Milchick in that interview with you, said he would take the Keir Egan statue from the last episode, which is a great one. And I did not know until listening to that interview that Ben Stiller was operating that statue. That's right. But whose voice is it? Do we know?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So on the day, I believe it was the actor whose face Keir is modeled off. I believe he was there doing the voice. And Ben just had a little... Yeah, it was like a remote control, basically, that he could kind of make it move around. But I wasn't there that day, so I don't know. I didn't see it. The...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
That statue scene kicks off what I would describe and have described to my friends as the most insane 25 minutes of television I've ever seen. And somehow all of it works. The whole thing you're watching, you're like, there's a marching band. And like, what in the world is even happening here? And yet it works spectacularly. Okay.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I'm going to ask you a couple, how did you keep a straight face questions? How did you keep a straight face and particularly an angry face, a building tension face when Milchik is bobbing and weaving and dancing right behind your chair during the famous music dance experience from season one? And Milchik's dancing, Tramell Tillman's dancing, obviously legendary at this point.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
You just got to sit there and look angry as his face is like behind your shoulders and he's doing all like that. That was how'd you do that? I would be laughing the whole time.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah, well, you know, honestly, it's funny because it was kind of everyone else got to be like having fun and dancing. And I had to be like in my own little world. So I was kind of angry. I was like, everyone else is having fun. Everyone is like, you know, that's that's like become this, you know, kind of iconic scene from the show.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Everyone gets to show off their little moves and I just have to sit there stewing. So it kind of it kind of worked. I kind of was feeling a little left out. So I just use that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Okay, Dylan G gets the waffle party, the waffle party where you go into the Egan house and you go in the Egan bed and the tempers masked as goats and whatever else they are, are doing salacious dances in front of you. Again, what is that set actually like? And how in the hell do you not, I mean, either freak out or just start laughing at the absurdity of this?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
So that, you know, I don't remember exactly where it was, but we shot that like in some kind of museum somewhere. And it was like, it was our last day there. And it was like, it had to be about 1 a.m. or something because we, you know, literally we couldn't shoot there anymore. So we had to finish everything that day. Yeah. And there was a man upstairs just making hundreds of waffles.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
They brought in like a like a special like waffle chef. So it was I was so out of it that like, you know, I was just disconnected from reality. There was there was I was on another planet during that scene.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah. OK, you are famous for and everybody has asked you about your many and delightful uses of the F word on the show. Just I mean, the timing, the variety, the setups. There's all there's entire like videos devoted to like the top 20 Dylan F bombs and top 20 Dylan lines. My personal favorite line that you've ever said on the show, admittedly, it is a popular choice.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Like he and Nick Batum are blocking everything left and right. RIP Clippers. Like don't just overlook that. The sacrifice of a play like that, screening Steven Adams that hard, that fucking hurts. And that's not easy. Like if I did that, I'm out for three weeks. Just one screen on Steven Adams when he hits me back, I'm out for three weeks. It's a big deal that he does stuff like that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
But the deadpan nature in which you say it is so perfect. I'm wondering if – can you guess what the line is? And then I'm going to ask you about it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Oh, I don't know. I know this season – When I first hear about my Audi and I ask if he's dumb is a popular one. What's the exact line on that? I think I just say, is he dumb? But no, I don't know.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Season one... the egg bar is coveted as fuck ah yes how many takes of that is there before you get like the timing of that and you're dead the best part is you're just you're eating and you're just dead serious it's quick it's serious it's dead bad yeah the egg bar is coveted as fuck like you don't know that the egg bar is this coveted yeah
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah, you know, we shoot a lot of takes of most scenes, so there are probably a lot of takes of that. But I do think the character, he's obviously, you know, he's a funny character, but he is almost always dead serious. Like, he's not joking. I think that's kind of what's funny about him, is he is so dead serious about all of his opinions. But yes, that was a fun day.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Fun little fact about that is... At the time, I was vegan. I was eating vegan. So they made these vegan deviled eggs for me, and they were not good. I mean, they looked amazing, and they were totally fine, but they were about to look. And I was like, oh, I kind of wish you guys had asked me, because I would have just eaten deviled eggs rather than this kind of fancy scientific creation.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
But yeah, those were not real eggs.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Another how many takes are there seen from the most recent season? Your Innie gets to meet your Audi's wife in a few scenes. And they're very moving scenes. They're very interesting how you play the Innie and the Audi Dylan differently and how you approach her in those scenes. And in the climactic scene of that exchange, you propose to her and you're almost...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
it's as the show is setting up that the innies and the outies are really different people and can have negative feelings toward each other and jealousy toward each other. And you propose to Gretchen and she cries and leaves because this is an incredibly bizarre situation. And no, she cannot actually marry a second version of Dylan. And as she's walking out
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
you shriek this guttural shriek of and it's like high pitched, much higher than you've ever talked on the show. And, and the combination of the, it's one of those moments where the, the way you say it and the fact that it's a higher pitch thing and throatier is so moving. It just hits you in the gut. How many screams are there? Were you like aiming for that kind of total?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I'm always so curious, like how do moments like that happen? Cause it's perfect. Sure.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah, you know, we definitely did that a few times. You know, it was a thing where it's such a strange moment for the character where, you know, the innies we always talk about are kind of childlike. And so, you know, he was like naive enough to believe that he might that proposing was like a good decision. And this is like his first, it's kind of his first romance.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And if you go back and watch that play, it's a hard ass screen. And that's the kind of stuff that this guy's been doing for a decade and a half now. And it just should be lauded. And it got Draymond an easy bucket. And again, oxygen, oxygen, Draymond green baskets, oxygen.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
You know, he hasn't experienced anything like this before. So I think in that moment, it is this really kind of like childish scream of frustration and despair. And like, you know, all this stuff is kind of crashing down on him. So we definitely did it a few times and tried it a few different ways. But no, I don't know that I was like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
uh, specifically, uh, it just sort of, that's what, that's what came out. You know, it was just sort of this like childlike, uh,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
explosion of of emotion kind of well you nailed it um season one you are the any responsible for triggering the overtime contingency you are the one who has to stay in and pull a whole bunch of levers and you're in this what looks like a very uncomfortable stretch because the levers are on opposite sides from each other and in the show you're in that pose for 30 minutes because that
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
how long the innies are on the outside world, the other three innies. How long are you actually in that pose continuously while shooting? And was it as uncomfortable as it looked?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Uh, yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty uncomfortable. I was never in it for more than a few minutes at a time. Just, you know, we would, you know, shoot some takes and then, and then move on. But at the same time, it took us all day to shoot that sequence. So I was, I was in and out of it for like 14 hours. Yeah.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
the benefit I had was they actually built that set based on the length, the width of my arms. So they, they like one day like measured me. Your wingspan, like an NBA player. Yeah. They got my, I actually didn't get the stats. So I don't know what my wingspan is.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I'm sure it's embarrassingly low, but they, so it was like just at the edge of where I could reach, but to make it feel more real, I was really kind of like yanking on it. So it was, it was very uncomfortable. It was, It was a tough day and I was sore the next day for sure.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Hey, look, like if I have to maintain a catcher squat for more than 15 seconds, I'm like, I don't understand how anybody does this. Like, yeah, forget posing like like that. OK, one more nerd out question you mentioned on some pod I was listening to. Somebody asked you again a classic question. What have you learned?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
from watching and working with these iconic veteran stars like Patricia Arquette and Christopher Walken and John Turturro specifically. And you mentioned like being in the trailer next to John Turturro and all the voice warmup exercises that he does to get ready for a scene. And then whoever he was interviewing, I don't remember, moved on.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I'm curious about what other things you've picked up or does acting not really work this way? Like I'm picturing, we all pick, when fans love shows, we all picture two things that are probably wrong. Number one, all of you are best friends off the set and hang out all the time forever and ever and ever.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And number two, you're all just like during breaks being like, hey, Patricia Arquette, I have this question for you about true romance or this like acting technique. And that probably doesn't happen either. But are there any other like like tricks, not tricks, but techniques you've learned from them?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Well, I will say on our show, I genuinely do love everyone. John, I love, you know, John and I have gotten quite close. We, we, I actually got him into, into the New York Liberty. He's like now a Liberty guy as obviously he famously is a big Knicks fan, but we went to a playoff game together with Brit who plays Helly on the show. And like, had an incredible amount of fun.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And I, you know, I'm, there is some of that where people are asking questions. Like Adam is actually, he, he is like, he loves to ask people questions about, you know, their work and stuff. I tend to kind of sit and watch. And I did learn a ton from John. Like he, he did do those local warmups. He also, he, he would tell me kind of fun little tricks of like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
he'd be like, you know, if they're shooting a scene and you're kind of only going to be there in the background and you want to go home, just, like, suggest that your character goes to the bathroom or something. Like, little tricks like that just about, like, saving your time and saving your energy. But also...
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I think from him something that I really just his, he's such a great presence on set and he makes everyone feel so comfortable and welcome. And he's so like encouraging that just, just like feeling that kind of like,
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
confidence from him totally allowed me to feel more comfortable, you know, just in the work at all, because he's a guy who I've watched my whole life, you know, like, so then you start to do scenes with him and you start to be like, Oh, Hey, we're doing this together. And he kind of believes in you.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
It just, that adds so much to, um, you know, your, your confidence and lets you kind of like do things that you maybe wouldn't have been able to do without that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
By the way, I would say the most popular Dylan line is, uh, I think it's your delts are looking sick as fuck. And my Audi definitely does muscle shows. That might be the, that might be the number one, most popular deal of mine.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
That was, that was a fun, that was John and I, they kind of just let us like riff in the background. Cause I think Brit is like doing some, she's up to one of her schemes in season one. And we're kind of just like blabbering about our muscles, but yeah, that was, that was a fun day.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
All right. Before you go, are you still doing stuff at UCB? I know you've done a lot of UCB. How often are you still doing that?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah, I still do it occasionally there. You know, they didn't have a space in New York for a while during COVID. Their theaters closed, but now they're back up there in the East Village. And I do the show ASCAP occasionally on Friday nights. And then I do another show on Sunday nights called Rat Scraps, which is like a bunch of the people who used to do ASCAP.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
We do similar show on Sunday nights at this theater on the Lower East Side called Caveat. But yeah, when I'm when I'm in town and not working, I try and do those shows as often as I can.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Anything else coming up that you would like to promote in the world of Zack Cherry other than season three of Severance, which I assume is coming out in six months? I assume you guys have gotten right to it and my appetite will be satiated immediately.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Well, I don't have a timeline on that. But yes, certainly, certainly everyone be ready for season three because I'm excited to get to it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Zach, any other any last NBA thoughts? We're going to have the MVP announced this week. Nick Celtic starts tonight in Boston. Any other playoff thoughts or anything you want to get out before I let you go?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
I mean, I guess is it is it just going to be are we headed down an inevitable path of Thunder Celtics? Can anyone beat the Celtics?
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Uh, I, I, I think the Cavs would have a chance. I mean, that was my preseason finals pick. That was the chalk preseason finals pick the Cavs, the Darius Garland thing. Um, you know, he was out again in game one and Indiana won that game last night in rousing fashion. I think the Cavs could put up a good fight against the Celtics. I think the Knicks are in trouble.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Uh, I, I just made my prediction for that series with Howard Beck. It was not the Knicks. Um, but you know, look, and the Thunder, Thunder, uh, They get to play the best player in the world now. We'll see how that goes. But yeah, I have seen nothing to take me off that path yet.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Okay. Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. So we'll see. It'll be fun to see it play out.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Zach Cherry, this has been a real pleasure. You're just tremendous on Severance. Now I'm going to look for everything else you do. Thanks for lending us some of your time. You are now a busy and coveted as fuck guest on these kind of shows. Let's be in touch and I'll see you soon, hopefully.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Yeah, thanks for having me. Truly, this was a blast.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
What a treat Zach Cherry was. Severance is amazing. He's amazing. Congratulations to him on his success. And that's it for today's Zach Lowe Show. We'll be back Thursday talking everything that happens in the NBA playoffs between now and then and looking ahead to the first real weekend of the second round. Things are heating up. The best teams are alive and battling each other.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
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The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
It was captured in. game i didn't see it was his leg it was a leg something leg oriented um that was that was unfortunate um the improbable mid-series playoff leap from amen thompson who like was a little skittish the first couple games and then was like oh no here's the regular season version of me but better for the last part of the series um uh andre mond um he had a steal
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
in this game with two and a half minutes left in the second quarter. Just an absolutely classic Draymond play. When I say that Draymond is a savant, these are the kind of plays I'm talking about. Shen Goon had the ball at the nail on... I think Butler was guarding him. Draymond was on Thompson in the dunker spot. And Steven Adams was at the opposite dunker spot.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And Shen Goon's working on the nail, like carving out, getting closer. It was very laborious for Shen Goon the whole series. So much physicality. He's already sort of an awkward player in a good way, but still awkward. He's getting a little traction. And Draymond... makes a little stunt towards Steven Adams, like across the lane, just a little stunt. I don't know why he was doing it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
Maybe to help out on a potential box out, maybe to just trick Shen Goon and Shen Goon picks the ball up and begins to pass to Thompson. Draymond's always open. I'm going to hit him. Draymond is retreating to Ahmed Thompson in a blur before the ball is even out of Shen Goon's hands. I watched it multiple times. He's already heading back to steal the pass before it's out of Shen Goon's hands.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
And he just intercepts it like a defensive back. And speaking of finding a way, don't forget the Steph had two baskets in the second half where he just sort of like wriggled his way under the basket and lots of traffic and just sort of kept wriggling and burrowing and just flip shots off the backboard. It's like, my God, great win.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
for the Warriors and by the way an absolute home run for them to be here I wrote last year the sort of obit of the Warriors after they got eliminated in the play-in tournament when they had now missed the playoffs three at that point three of the last previous five years they had missed the playoffs they had big decisions on clay and all that coming up and I wrote in there like
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
The fairytale ending probably already happened. It was the 2022 championship. That might've been the fair. That was probably the fairytale ending because this is what happens to old championship teams. Even ones that get shots at the top of the draft, like the Warriors had, and they missed it with Wiseman and they tried to trade that pick too. And they couldn't find anything great for it.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
They get older and the young guys who are coming up are not ready in time for the old guys who are coming out. You get expensive. You got to cut costs. Everyone else is coming and rising up. And the best case scenario was probably like striking gold on some trade. And if it's a game changer, franchise changer, fine. Is Jimmy Butler that? I don't know if he's quite that, but he's very, very good.
The Zach Lowe Show
Round 2 Begins! Plus, Reactions to a Pair of Game 7s With Howard Beck and an NBA-‘Severance’ Crossover With Zach Cherry.
But the most likely scenario was, and it's a positive one, that the Warriors are a good team in a stacked conference that is able to win a round maybe win two rounds, play meaningful basketball late in Steph Curry's career, probably never win the title again, but go out with honor and competition. And this is the A plus best case scenario. They're doing that.
The Zach Lowe Show
Game 7 Baby! OKC-Denver Breakdown With Andrew Schlecht, and a Warriors Postmortem With Logan Murdock
Is Isaiah Joe ready? Are you ready for Julian Strother to be throwing flamethrowers like Klay Thompson 2.0? Are you ready?
The Zach Lowe Show
Game 7 Baby! OKC-Denver Breakdown With Andrew Schlecht, and a Warriors Postmortem With Logan Murdock
Poku coming up a minute in! We're on fire! Let's do it!