The Zach Lowe Show
Playoff Comeback or Collapse?! NBA Breakdowns With Fred Katz and Adam Mares. Plus, a Draft Lottery Preview With J. Kyle Mann.
Thu, 08 May 2025
As the shocking NBA playoffs continue, Zach is joined by Fred Katz to discuss what went down in Boston last night (1:07), as well as the Warriors' game plan without Steph Curry tonight (30:00) and more surprises in the Pacers-Cavs series (41:04). Then, an NBA draft lottery interlude with J. Kyle Mann (53:36): They touch on everything from the 76ers' nerves to under-the-radar draft prospects. Finally, Adam Mares joins Zach to discuss the 1-1 series tie between the Nuggets and Thunder and what to expect going forward (1:24:27). Host: Zach Lowe Guests: Fred Katz, J. Kyle Mann, Adam Mares Producers: Jesse Aron, Chris Wohlers, Oscar De La Luz, Bobby Wagner The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Get started today at HubSpot.com/AI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What happened in the Celtics-Knicks playoff series?
I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm exhausted from apparently never, ever getting to cover a normal basketball game for probably the rest of my life at this point.
Well, I'll tell you this, Fred. The great thing about the playoffs is it's stressful. The other team is 100% focused. They're scheming for you in ways that they would not do in the regular season. All the attention's on you. The environments are crazy.
If there's an issue with your team, if there's a weakness with your team, if there's something wrong with the inner fortitude of your team, it will get exposed in the playoffs. The Boston Celtics last year, incredible season, incredible championship run, unimpeachable. No notes. But the reality is this.
They did not face an opponent until maybe the finals that was good enough to push them to that point where whatever issues might have been there, and maybe there were none last year, came out into the open for the world to see. It's a different year, and the Knicks are really good. And what has happened to the Boston Celtics in the first two games, blowing 20-point leads at home in both games,
is absolutely astonishing. First of all, credit to the Knicks. Okay? We got to get that out of the way before the fun part starts. Josh Hart, just two amazing games. You're going to put your centers on me like every team does? I'm going to hurt you. I'm going to get offensive rebounds. I'm going to kick out the three-point shooters. I'm going to play great defense.
I'm going to do all the annoying Josh Hart shit that I do that makes you mad. Carl Anthony Towns. How many threes did Carl Anthony Towns take last night, Fred?
Carl Anthony Towns, I feel like, has yet to take a three in the series, Zach.
He took one, and it was an end-of-quarter 70-foot heave.
One. And he took one in game one also, and it was an end-of-shot clock three.
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Chapter 2: How are the Warriors coping without Steph Curry?
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All right, it's time for an interlude between playoff series talk because we are 72, 96 hours, something like that, from my favorite event of the NBA calendar and for sure the stupidest event of the NBA calendar, the NBA Draft Lottery, where 14...
Highly educated, uber competitive, top of their field, outthink everybody, search for every edge to get this player on a two-way contract because maybe he could become a whatever. Sit in a room and watch ping pong balls fly around. a 40 year old lottery machine.
Like you see on the local TV news and see whether their franchise gets Cooper flag or whether their franchise gets somebody who's less exciting than Cooper flag, but they're all geniuses and they're all great team building experts. They're at the mercy of a stupid lottery machine. Jay Kyle, man, how are you, sir? It's such a pleasure to have you on.
Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. It's a little weird for me. I've had the privilege in my basketball career coming to this later in life of just meeting a lot of people that I enjoyed over the years, like Bill. And this one is, yeah, just getting to talk to you is a little surreal. I'm not trying to weird you out, but I was like, oh, Zach Lowe's in my life now. This is awesome.
And we start talking about the Simpsons immediately, of all things, right? Yeah.
i 90s simpsons i i'll say it again it's the best thing that's ever been on television don't at me if people at anymore at him i'll jump in it's fine um i love the lottery so much i'm gonna be in the room the secret room again it's not a secret i'll be in the drawing room again as everyone sits there and watches the stupid machine um
And this is a good one because we have a legit, awesome number one pick. And then so here I am not a draft guy. You are. I'm not a college basketball guy. You are. I do, however, talk to NBA front office people all the time who have been gearing up for this draft. And I've talked to more of them in the last 72 hours to gear up for this podcast.
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Chapter 3: What are the key insights from the Pacers-Cavs series?
Like I was a left-handed laser beam pass into the lane, but he's just been so bad defensively and hasn't been able to shoot it well enough that you're like, what is this amounting to? And what it amounted to this year was he got, he got demoted to the second unit halfway through the season or whatever. Um, Filipowski is all right.
I had him second team, all rookie, not sure what he's going to become. Kessler is pretty good. Like, like, I don't know what he's going to be. He's like pretty good. Um, Hendricks I had really was really intrigued by before the injury. My point is like, and Collier Collier was good. Collier trended the right way. The start was so bad that it was alarming, but he trended the right way.
My point is like, Just not sure what all this really amounts to, all these bites at the 8th, 10th, 7th pick in the draft. It might amount to not all that much so far. I don't know.
You need a map, is what I always say. These teams that are trying to crawl out of the nothingness to somethingness, they just need a map. And a player like Cooper Flagg, when the Magic got Paolo, it was like, we have a map to build our team. When the Pistons got Cade, it was like, we have a clear plan. We need these pieces. And the great thing about
Cooper is, he checks that box in terms of, yes, he gives you an idea of who you can build around, but he's so versatile that you can go a number of different directions because he doesn't have any kind of implied, I have to play this way in his game, which I think is what makes him such a special prospect. He could go a number of directions.
And for the Jazz, there's nothing on here that is a map to me.
forward it's like any you could keep any of this or get rid of any of this i don't know which direction they're going it's fine but it's just kind of middling and i think cooper would be uh he would be a just an explosion in the right direction i'll tell you though i'm just i'm just saying spurs are gonna have two lottery picks in like a seven percent chance or something at the number one pick i'm just like i i think on that one spurs win the lottery
I think I'm stepping in as commissioner and being like, do it again, draw it again. We can't, it's just, that's not fair. Do it again. I know it's supposed to be luck and the lottery is a lottery. And like, you know, the teams have the magic one at two years in a row. And the calves have won it a million times. Just do it, do it again. It's one by Yama and flag. That's not fair.
Well, well, wait a minute, though. I mean, is does your I want to see this part of your brain kind of have it play any part in this? Because I'm curious for you watching the NBA as intensely as you do. Is there any team regardless of karma or whatever that in the Zach Lowe? I just want to see this rankings where who would you like?
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Chapter 4: What are the expectations for the NBA Draft Lottery?
You want to build that, bake that into the DNA of your team. But oftentimes, that's only half the battle. The other part of it is just sort of the will and the physicality and the deliberateness to which you approach different things. And I thought game one became a little bit of a chess match, so to speak. And game two was just a street fight.
They came out and said, okay, we have to do these things. We're going to overwhelm them athletically. And that's their real advantage. I mean, Denver has a great tactician on the floor at all times in Nikola Jokic. You're not going to win that chess match. That's not necessarily the angle you have to go, but they are the more talented and certainly the more athletic team.
And the athleticism, I think, is one of the things that has popped in both games, but it really popped in game two.
Yeah, just how do you feel about the series? Denver got the split. It's 1-1. They're going home. They've had a nice, very good playoff series win over the Clippers. won the opener on the road. They have home court. I, I zoom out, you know, I put my notes down. I just like, how do I feel? And every series has a certain feel to it.
This one, I'm like, I'm not sure who, I guess I should feel better about Denver because they got the split. I picked Oklahoma city in six. I don't know if you made a pick. I can't remember. But I don't really know how to feel about it after two games. How do you feel about it? Like, what's your gut saying?
I mean, I think Oklahoma City is a lot better than Denver. And Denver, to me, this year reminds me more of the 2023 Miami Heat than anybody else in that I think they can beat you with execution. They can beat you with toughness. But there are teams that are more talented than them. And... There are teams, and you talked about DeAndre Jordan last night. Denver doesn't have any levers to pull.
They have five, six guys, and one of them has one shoulder at the moment. You know, Michael Porter can't really lift his left hand above his head.
By the way, it's a big reason why I picked the Thunder. I think the Thunder are better, but like... Every other day, I just worry about how long can you go just playing these guys this many minutes when one of them is already injured.
Yeah, and it's not even the depth of it, which I think would be its own issue. You know, Peyton Watson maybe gives him minutes. I actually think he's been good lately. So you can say six and a half guys. But the problem is more the versatility. In the playoffs, you have to solve problems. You have to go to different lineups. And you saw last night, I mean, DeAndre Jordan,
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