Rob Handy

We're getting a little desperate. We're running out of things to do that we're going to solve this case.

We're getting a little desperate. We're running out of things to do that we're going to solve this case.

Criminals often mask their trophy tapes in the middle of videos that are even commercially made. You're watching a movie, and then all of a sudden it switches right to pornography, and it's clearly grainy, different quality. It's dubbed in, and then it dubs back to the commercial video.

Criminals often mask their trophy tapes in the middle of videos that are even commercially made. You're watching a movie, and then all of a sudden it switches right to pornography, and it's clearly grainy, different quality. It's dubbed in, and then it dubs back to the commercial video.

It was done in such a way as to, like, conceal it.

It was done in such a way as to, like, conceal it.

In the middle of the hardcore pornography video was a home video.

In the middle of the hardcore pornography video was a home video.

He was emotional and upset.

He was emotional and upset.

No one thought he would be capable of doing that.

No one thought he would be capable of doing that.

We decided we were kind of running out of room, and let's see what we can get.

We decided we were kind of running out of room, and let's see what we can get.

Basically, we had the one day to put it together. It was a scramble.

Basically, we had the one day to put it together. It was a scramble.

Five minutes later, I'm leaving with a $10,000 check made out to me, and my boss is like, just bring me back receipts.

Five minutes later, I'm leaving with a $10,000 check made out to me, and my boss is like, just bring me back receipts.

We literally called people that morning and said, hey, go home, get a change of clothes, get gear to hike in the canyon, and be back at work in like three hours.

We literally called people that morning and said, hey, go home, get a change of clothes, get gear to hike in the canyon, and be back at work in like three hours.

We had people hiking down into the Grand Canyon to get down ahead of him.

We had people hiking down into the Grand Canyon to get down ahead of him.

We used an airplane because you couldn't use a helicopter over the Grand Canyon.

We used an airplane because you couldn't use a helicopter over the Grand Canyon.

Well, we felt an obligation to protect Warren.

Well, we felt an obligation to protect Warren.

We knew if we could just get the right circumstance, he would confess to Warren. If Warren would continue. Warren was fragile. He was not comfortable in any of it. We have no communication directly with Warren.

We knew if we could just get the right circumstance, he would confess to Warren. If Warren would continue. Warren was fragile. He was not comfortable in any of it. We have no communication directly with Warren.

Warren pulled into that parking lot, and we pulled in behind him. And Warren got out.

Warren pulled into that parking lot, and we pulled in behind him. And Warren got out.

He was crying, emotionally broke down, got in his car. And then I just left. We're like, oh, geez. We couldn't get back fast enough and try to figure out what we had.

He was crying, emotionally broke down, got in his car. And then I just left. We're like, oh, geez. We couldn't get back fast enough and try to figure out what we had.

This is it. We got him. Everybody was just overwhelmingly relieved and happy and excited that this was going to come to an end. There's a lot of people that put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in that case.

This is it. We got him. Everybody was just overwhelmingly relieved and happy and excited that this was going to come to an end. There's a lot of people that put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in that case.

We just methodically searched every square inch of the house. These cops are thorough. Every drawer, every nook, every cranny, every couch cushion, everywhere.

We just methodically searched every square inch of the house. These cops are thorough. Every drawer, every nook, every cranny, every couch cushion, everywhere.

We were looking for accelerant or a diary or, you know, diagrams or maps of the preserve. We didn't find any of that. There was newspaper clippings of the fire coverage and stuff like that.

We were looking for accelerant or a diary or, you know, diagrams or maps of the preserve. We didn't find any of that. There was newspaper clippings of the fire coverage and stuff like that.

Nothing completely damning to him at all.

Nothing completely damning to him at all.

The pornography was interesting because it was extreme.

The pornography was interesting because it was extreme.

We found boxes of printed pornography, and it was all organized in systematic files, printed on the backsides of scrap paper.

We found boxes of printed pornography, and it was all organized in systematic files, printed on the backsides of scrap paper.

There was a book in the house, Helping Your Loved One Overcome a Pornography Addiction, something like that.

There was a book in the house, Helping Your Loved One Overcome a Pornography Addiction, something like that.

There was a theory that developed during the search that somehow there was a connection.

There was a theory that developed during the search that somehow there was a connection.

He kept talking about what a great guy Mark was, like a second dad to his daughter, that kind of stuff.

He kept talking about what a great guy Mark was, like a second dad to his daughter, that kind of stuff.

We told him, look, help us prove it's not him. Help us prove his innocence. You need to get to the bottom of it too here, Warren. Help us out.

We told him, look, help us prove it's not him. Help us prove his innocence. You need to get to the bottom of it too here, Warren. Help us out.

There was an IT-related issue with the cameras. Something was amiss.

There was an IT-related issue with the cameras. Something was amiss.

We missed him. We missed our opportunity.

We missed him. We missed our opportunity.

Here we come up with a perfect plan, put it all in motion, and we fumbled it.

Here we come up with a perfect plan, put it all in motion, and we fumbled it.

Oh, it was devastating. It's like fumbling on the goal line, ready to score the winning touchdown, and the other team picks it up and runs the other way and wins. That's really what it felt like. It was horrible. I was irate. Terry was upset.

Oh, it was devastating. It's like fumbling on the goal line, ready to score the winning touchdown, and the other team picks it up and runs the other way and wins. That's really what it felt like. It was horrible. I was irate. Terry was upset.

That was probably the one time where I, you know, melted down a little bit. We've worked so hard to get to this point. We looked at so many things to get to this point, and now we missed our one opportunity we're gonna get. We were getting sloppy. We'd lost our focus on details. I brought everybody in a room and chewed everybody out and was ticked.

That was probably the one time where I, you know, melted down a little bit. We've worked so hard to get to this point. We looked at so many things to get to this point, and now we missed our one opportunity we're gonna get. We were getting sloppy. We'd lost our focus on details. I brought everybody in a room and chewed everybody out and was ticked.

We were missing important things. And in hindsight, that was my fault. At the time, I didn't realize that. I was mad at everybody else. I just said, how many more ways can we fuck this thing up?

We were missing important things. And in hindsight, that was my fault. At the time, I didn't realize that. I was mad at everybody else. I just said, how many more ways can we fuck this thing up?

And I said, what? And he said, there's infinite ways we can F this thing up. And then everybody laughed, and the whole temperature came down.

And I said, what? And he said, there's infinite ways we can F this thing up. And then everybody laughed, and the whole temperature came down.

Several weeks went by, no activity on the cameras.

Several weeks went by, no activity on the cameras.

We decided to come up with a sign to try to entice him again.

We decided to come up with a sign to try to entice him again.

This big, massive mansion that was going to take up the whole lot.

This big, massive mansion that was going to take up the whole lot.

Coming soon kind of a thing.

Coming soon kind of a thing.

He was reporting the news, reporting a story and didn't feel any obligation to help us identify the person and felt it was against his journalism standards.

He was reporting the news, reporting a story and didn't feel any obligation to help us identify the person and felt it was against his journalism standards.

I got called in the middle of the night. We all went and met out there, and we just set up a command post and started working it from there.

I got called in the middle of the night. We all went and met out there, and we just set up a command post and started working it from there.

Oh, yeah. We were angry. We were frustrated. For sure.

Oh, yeah. We were angry. We were frustrated. For sure.

We looked into James quite a bit. Not as a suspect out there lighting the fires, but we saw James as facilitating and promoting criminal activity.

We looked into James quite a bit. Not as a suspect out there lighting the fires, but we saw James as facilitating and promoting criminal activity.

We looked into everything we could about him. Did you surveil him at any point? Sure. We're going to try to figure out, was there a relationship there? Did he actually get a tip? How did this work?

We looked into everything we could about him. Did you surveil him at any point? Sure. We're going to try to figure out, was there a relationship there? Did he actually get a tip? How did this work?

We did several search warrants on the New Times. We did all kinds of things.

We did several search warrants on the New Times. We did all kinds of things.

We surveilled every New Times jewelry truck, and we surveilled all the New Times stands in the Phoenix area we could.

We surveilled every New Times jewelry truck, and we surveilled all the New Times stands in the Phoenix area we could.

We followed a few people that picked up papers. We'd get their plate number or figure out who they were or get them ID'd, and they'd go on our list.

We followed a few people that picked up papers. We'd get their plate number or figure out who they were or get them ID'd, and they'd go on our list.

We were searching for needles and haystacks, and we were literally grasping at anything we could.

We were searching for needles and haystacks, and we were literally grasping at anything we could.

No.

No.

Oh yeah. There were things in there that we felt were probably truthful.

Oh yeah. There were things in there that we felt were probably truthful.

We dissected every word of that article.

We dissected every word of that article.

His confident demeanor suggests he's ambitious and educated.

His confident demeanor suggests he's ambitious and educated.

there was some special affinity for the area around the Lee Benson fire. We felt that that area was very special to that person.

there was some special affinity for the area around the Lee Benson fire. We felt that that area was very special to that person.

If we set a trap in that area, they may come there.

If we set a trap in that area, they may come there.

We're trying to put together a group to do surveillance, and it was going around to different squads in the precinct asking for volunteers.

We're trying to put together a group to do surveillance, and it was going around to different squads in the precinct asking for volunteers.

I was trying to get, like, one volunteer off every squad.

I was trying to get, like, one volunteer off every squad.

They wanted to know the hours. They didn't want to be flexible. They wanted to know if they were getting overtime and all these things. I'm like, look, I have no idea. I don't have any idea how this is going to work. I'm just looking for people who might be interested. No takers.

They wanted to know the hours. They didn't want to be flexible. They wanted to know if they were getting overtime and all these things. I'm like, look, I have no idea. I don't have any idea how this is going to work. I'm just looking for people who might be interested. No takers.

And I'm like, sure, Kerry, you're in.

And I'm like, sure, Kerry, you're in.

She's working with the FBI. She's working at the FBI office. She's doing all kinds of fun things.

She's working with the FBI. She's working at the FBI office. She's doing all kinds of fun things.

You didn't volunteer. I got my volunteer. You're not bumping her now that it's fun and that she's making money and having a great time. We're not doing that, you know?

You didn't volunteer. I got my volunteer. You're not bumping her now that it's fun and that she's making money and having a great time. We're not doing that, you know?

We all would sit in a room once a week and get on a whiteboard and try to refocus and re-strategize.

We all would sit in a room once a week and get on a whiteboard and try to refocus and re-strategize.

We'd sit in those meetings and talk, and then all of a sudden somebody would come up with a theory. We'd all walk out of there thinking, yeah, it's one guy. And then we'd meet the next week after we worked the leads for the week, and we'd be like, yeah, it's a group.

We'd sit in those meetings and talk, and then all of a sudden somebody would come up with a theory. We'd all walk out of there thinking, yeah, it's one guy. And then we'd meet the next week after we worked the leads for the week, and we'd be like, yeah, it's a group.

The haystack's getting bigger and bigger, but the needle's still the same size.

The haystack's getting bigger and bigger, but the needle's still the same size.

But whoever did, it was a great idea. We started penciling it out on a whiteboard. How does this look? What can we do? All of us felt like this has got a good chance of working.

But whoever did, it was a great idea. We started penciling it out on a whiteboard. How does this look? What can we do? All of us felt like this has got a good chance of working.

— While we were doing that, the tech people at the FBI were setting up surveillance cameras in the desert for us.

— While we were doing that, the tech people at the FBI were setting up surveillance cameras in the desert for us.

Cameras that were transmitted over the cell frequency then were very new and they weren't real advanced. So we had to have people sit in these connex boxes and watch cameras all night, every night.

Cameras that were transmitted over the cell frequency then were very new and they weren't real advanced. So we had to have people sit in these connex boxes and watch cameras all night, every night.

The fence was supposed to go up like on Friday and the surveillance was supposed to start that night.

The fence was supposed to go up like on Friday and the surveillance was supposed to start that night.

We were a little fearful that he'd be like a trapped criminal at that point. We weren't sure what he would do when he knew we were coming for him.

We were a little fearful that he'd be like a trapped criminal at that point. We weren't sure what he would do when he knew we were coming for him.

Had he been charged in local court, he'd have been charged with that too.

Had he been charged in local court, he'd have been charged with that too.

I did. Yeah? Yeah, I felt it was fair.

I did. Yeah? Yeah, I felt it was fair.

Essentially, commodities were purchased, transported across state lines to build a home, and he disrupted that process.

Essentially, commodities were purchased, transported across state lines to build a home, and he disrupted that process.

It is getting creative with the statute for sure.

It is getting creative with the statute for sure.

So if this would have turned out to be an ecoterrorist group, then the FBI has jurisdiction, and there's a lot of federal statutes that apply to that.

So if this would have turned out to be an ecoterrorist group, then the FBI has jurisdiction, and there's a lot of federal statutes that apply to that.

Correct.

Correct.