Rachelle Hampton
Appearances
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Nicole and Madeline give each other that look that says, let's buckle the fuck in as they go to find their seats. You know that sound that metal reusable water bottles make when they hit something?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
I once dropped one in a museum and it was traumatic.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Nicole is very familiar with that sound since she carries a reusable water bottle everywhere. She meant to leave hers in the car and only remembers that she hadn't when her water bottle hits an armrest. Oh no. It doesn't make the loudest sound, but it is definitely audible over the low atmospheric music that's playing.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Indigo's head whips around and the sort of dreamy expression on her face evaporates into anger. She makes her way over to Nicole and Madeline and is like, did you not read the rules? They explicitly say no water bottles. What? What? Our water bottles, which cost $8, by the way, have been pre-doused. So they won't interfere with the dousing portion of this event. What's the dousing?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Yeah. Nicole and Madeline are like, what the fuck have we gotten ourselves into? But Nicole's been wanting to see this show since she was a teen. So she kind of swallows her questions and she's like, you're right. I'm so sorry. Water does have memory. Can I just run out and put this in my car? And Indigo sort of huffs and is like, fine, but hurry up. The show is starting soon.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So Madeline's waiting in the theater for Nicole to get back. The theater is like half full. Only a few seconds have passed before Madeline hears angry whispers floating from behind the tattered velvet curtain on stage. Oh, no. She can't quite make out what the whispers are saying, but she can tell that one of the voices is definitely Indigo's and the other is definitely male.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Madeline's no psychic, but she's fairly certain that Indigo and the mysterious Steve are discussing Nicole. Okay.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
She's preparing to tell Nicole when she gets back, except as soon as Nicole reenters the theater, sans water bottle, Indigo and the mysterious Steve exit from behind the curtain and go to confront Nicole.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
What would you expect a man named the mysterious Steve to look like?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Alana, it's like you're psychic. The mysterious Steve is wearing a bolo tie and a vintage tuxedo shirt with a velvet blazer over the top. All of these items have clearly seen better days, as has his little ponytail, which is much longer than it is thick. The mysterious Steve meets Nicole at the door and starts angrily talking at her about how rude she is. Okay.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
He goes on about how the venue is a cherished local theater and how no theater in the world would allow someone to bring a water bottle. Madeline has known Nicole long enough to know what she looks like when she gets angry. And she also knows that Nicole tends to get sarcastic when she's angry.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So she sort of winces when she sees Nicole smirk and then just fully cringes when Nicole's like, well, actually, I've been to Broadway and that's not true. Ooh. Do you think the mysterious Steve will take kindly to this?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Not this ponytail. No. Indigo lets out a dramatic gasp. Madeline stands up because she can sense what's about to happen next. As can everyone else in the halfle theater who had fully dropped with the polite pretense of not paying attention to this interaction. The mysterious Steve draws himself up imperiously. But then he says to Nicole, I'm making you disappear. Get the fuck out.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Oh, for a moment, Nicole looks shocked and then she's like, fuck your magic show and storms out. This is going to sound like a non sequitur, but I swear it's going to make sense. I recently lit a kitchen towel on fire while I was cooking dinner for a friend and she had to help me put it out because I just fully froze. I was just like, oh, my God, this towel's on fire.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Anyway, as soon as the fire was out, I knew this was going to be something we would reference forever. And now every so often we text each other like, remember when that kitchen towel was on fire? It was so on fire, right? Yeah. Have you had a moment like this with a friend before where something happens and you're immediately like, this is lore now?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Madeline and Nicole know they're going to be dining out on this experience with Mysterious Steve for at least two years minimum. This is the funniest thing that's happened to them in months. Getting kicked out of the Mysterious Steve show is almost even better than seeing the Mysterious Steve show. Our two ladies immediately drive to a bar and order a pitcher of margaritas and a plate of wings.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
And they spend two hours picking over the experience, which lasted about 15 minutes to be clear. Yeah. They're like, did you see his ponytail? And what about all the turquoise? And who the fuck is Fabulous Matt? Somewhere between their second and third round of margaritas, Madeline and Nicole decide to leave a review for the show on Facebook. Are you someone who leaves online reviews?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So, Mysterious Steve's show has about 150 reviews, and most of them are five stars. The reviews read like, the part with the cactus, just wow. And I still don't understand what Mysterious Steve did with those handcuffs. And the crow section was crazy. And a few that were like, incredible to still have abs at Steve's age. What? Drop the workout routine.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
The ones that are three or four stars all have responses from the Mysterious Steve Facebook page that alleges the reviewer never actually saw the show. All to say Nicole and Madeline get a real sense of joy from writing their one-star review. They write, They write that as soon as they were made aware of this honest mistake, they tried to rectify it by putting the water bottle in their car.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
But upon returning to the theater, a member of their party was accosted by the mysterious thief. And then they end their review with this. We came for a night of fun and instead we were treated horribly by everyone involved. Who kicks people out of a magic show? What do you think of this review?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
It's true. Nicole and Madeline are both just mostly impressed with their ability to properly punctuate after two rounds of margaritas. So they order another and then grab a cab back to Grandma Jean's place. It's once they've gotten back to Grandma Jean's place that Madeline realizes she has received a bunch of calls over Facebook from the mysterious Steve.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
The Mysterious Steve has called Madeline so many times and then finally sent her a block of text over Facebook Messenger. Would you like to hear what the Mysterious Steve had to say?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
He wrote, Dear Madeline, how surprising that you've chosen to write a review for a theatrical experience you've yet to see. We here at Mysterious Steve's Mystery Palace treasure all perspectives. Still, I think we can both agree that it's only fair to evaluate something after experiencing it firsthand. I, too, find it regrettable that our interactions weren't as cordial as they should have been.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
However, we locate the blame in different places. You did not apologize and were very rude. We hope that you will reflect on the incident and choose to communicate more politely in the future. No one likes to feel left out. I understand this may be difficult for you.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
But a little birdie told me you have some gossip for me.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
I don't sense that you're the type of person who wants to ruin lives, but the review you wrote isn't justified because you haven't seen the show. Additionally, it's hurting my business, the thing that provides food for my family. I kindly ask you to remove it. Huge news! Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times best-selling book of beautiful essays about gossip.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, mostly true notes on gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's so fun. And not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audiobook, which Kelsey narrates you can buy wherever you buy your books. You can also go to KelseyMcKinneyBook.com to see all retailers. So after receiving this text from the mysterious Steve, Malin and Nicole don't only decide not to remove their review. They decide to engage in a flame war over Facebook Messenger with the mysterious Steve.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
At one point, the mysterious Steve informs Madeline Nicole that he is one 18th Cherokee and accuses them of being racist. Oh, my God. Madeline's like, I didn't even speak a single word the whole time I was in the theater.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Eventually, Madeline and Nicole start feeling the three pitchers of margaritas and they get sleepy and they decide they're done fighting with this guy and they're like, time to go to bed. When they wake up, there are yet more Facebook messages and calls from the mysterious thieves. One of the messages even says that the police are looking for them. What? !
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
At this point, Madeline and Nicole are both sober and hungover and no longer feel like engaging.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So Madeline blocks Mysterious D's Facebook page and the two go about their day, which includes visiting Grandma Jean at her extremely bougie senior living facility. Nicole and Madeline are regaling Grandma Jean with the story of their previous night. Grandma Jean is laughing until Madeline's like, yeah, and then he said the police are looking for us. Isn't that so funny?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Grandma Jean's like, oh, girls, I have to tell you something. Oh, no. And Grandma Jean tells him that Mysterious Steve isn't just a magician. He's also a reserve deputy sheriff. What? Which basically means he's a volunteer cop. Oh.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
in the middle of the night in the desert yeah so now madeline nicole are like are the police actually looking for us grandma jean also informs them that mysterious steve didn't simply learn magic and um an unusual approach to stage names from the fabulous matt he was invited to become a reserve deputy sheriff since matt was the town sheriff for decades oh what is going on with the with
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
police force tumbleweed springs has a lot going on they're all of their cops are magicians yes how do you react to this news do you feel like you've broken any laws
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Mal and Nicole only have like 48 more hours in town. Neither of them are lawyers, but they're both like, there's no way we broke a law by leaving a one-star review. On the way home from Grandma Jean's, Nicole gets a call from an unknown number with a local area code. It's one of those numbers that says spam likely. And they call Nicole three times in a row. She does not answer.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
But she's like, what if... He has access to like a police database or something and got my number. Madeline's like, OK, just block the number. Both of them are starting to get freaked out and are trying not to show it. When they get back to Grandma Jean's house, they see that Nicole has received friend requests from the personal accounts of both the mysterious Steve and Indigo.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
She gets messages from them both, which reiterate that the police are looking for her and that she should go to the police station.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Indigo even found Nicole's crafting Instagram called NickSnacks and left a comment on one of the public posts there. Also, at some point, Instagram sends Nicole a message that she requested her own password, which she did not. So now Nicole is assuming that they're trying to break into her Instagram account.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
None of this is helped by the fact that while Nicole and Madeline are going through Grandma Jean's clothes and pretending not to be worried, they hear a loud crash and run out to the front room to see that a crow has fallen dead from the sky right onto the porch.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So, Alana, you're in a desert town in the middle of nowhere and a magician slash volunteer cop is seemingly out to get you. What do you do?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
No desert town. Not even in America. I will not be going to the desert on any continent. No. And I just trust all crows. So neither one of our ladies wants to admit to being scared enough to leave. They're like, this is ridiculous. But they're both like, what if we just stayed in tonight? We're tired. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
They dig through Grandma Jean's fridge and pantry only to realize pretty much everything is expired.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
They consider delivery, but they don't feel great about giving out their address. Right. And the grocery store in town is right next to the Mysterious Thieves Theater.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So they end up going to a diner on the other side of town. But things seem weird there, too. They kind of feel like everyone's staring at them. It's not until the waitress asks them how long they're in town that they're both like, oh, yes, this town is very small. They know we're not from here. That's probably what's happening. Right.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
And so they tell the waitress that they're only in town for another day and a half. And then the waitress is like, well, you have to see the mysterious Steve while you're here. He's unforgettable. As soon as the waitress leaves, Madeline and Nicole were like, what do you think she meant by unforgettable? Does she know? What?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
They eat as fast as possible and scurry home, but weird things keep happening. Do you think our friend should be worried? Would you be like burning sage at this point?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Yeah. Our girls are in the same place, especially once Nicole finds mold in her reusable water bottle, even though she just washed it before heading out on the road. Unknown numbers continue to call. The next day, Nicole and Madeline are just like rushing to finish cleaning out the house so that they can leave bright and early the next morning.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
While they're wrapping dishes with newspaper, an unforecasted storm passes through town and it drops more rainfall on the town than Tumbleweed Springs has seen in a decade. Is this climate change or the mysterious steve? It's the mysterious steve. Nicole and Madeline don't want to stick around to find out. Finally, the morning comes where they're scheduled to leave.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Nicole and Madeline are usually the type of road trippers who are always like two hours behind schedule. Same. I can't get up in the morning. This time, they're both up and alert at four in the morning.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
They drop by Grandma Jean's before leaving town. They're both rich in vintage clothing and would like to never see another can of corned beef hash ever again. We're almost at the end of our story. How are you feeling?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Yeah, someone needs to illegally livestream the show.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
It's true. Mal and Nicole breathe a sigh of relief as soon as they're past the city limits of Tumbleweed Springs. About 40 minutes out, they even relax enough to put on rumors, even though Indigo low-key had strong wannabe Stevie Nicks vibes. They're about two hours out of town when a police car appears behind them. And it just stays behind them, not passing them.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
They're on an empty little two-lane highway, no buildings or houses around for miles. They left early enough that the sun is just now peeking over the horizon, so it's still a little dark. Nicole, who's driving, instinctively puts her hands at 10 and 2. Madeline turns down, go your own way. After a few miles of this, the cop car turns its lights on and signals for them to pull over.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Nicole and Madame look at each other, panic on both of their faces. They are both absolutely bricking it because they're absolutely certain that this is mysterious thieves doing.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
They pull over and the officer approaches the car. Madeline and Nicole can't tell what the officer looks like because they're wearing like a 10-gallon hat and aviator shades. It could be a man or a woman. It could be Indigo or Steve or Matt. What do you do? Oh...
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So the officer approaches their car, motions for them to roll their window down. Before she can even ask for license and registration, Nicole and Madeline just break.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
The officer takes off her sunglasses, which is when Nicole and Madeline finally realize that this is a complete stranger. Okay. It doesn't make them feel much less panicked, though. Who knows how many allies Mysterious Steve has? The officer's like, I'm going to need both of you to step out the car.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Madeline briefly wonders if it's a crime to shit your pants in the presence of an officer. Once both Nicole and Madeline are out of the car, the officer's like, do you know why I pulled you over? And they both shake their heads. And the officer's like, well, your brake lights have been on for the past four miles, but now I need both of you to take a breathalyzer.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Nicole and Madeline look at each other and they're like, brake lights? The officer makes them do a bunch of sobriety tests, like walking in a straight line and standing on one leg because this officer's like a magician. Nicole almost fails the sobriety test because she has a comically bad sense of balance.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
But the officer ends up letting them go with the warning to get their brake lights checked. And that's pretty much the end of our story. How are you feeling? Will you ever leave a one-star review ever again?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
All the stickers are actually signs of being a member of the cult. We do have two postscripts.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
So a few days after Madeline and Nicole get home, Grandma Jean calls Nicole and she's like, sweetie, is something up with your phone? The movers I hired to bring my love seat over said that they couldn't get in contact with you. They kept calling you while you were here, but you just weren't picking up.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
And then our second postscript is that every so often when Madeline and Nicole get together, they check on Mysterious Steve's Facebook page to see if anyone had a similar experience. Which is how they notice that Mysterious Steve keeps editing his public response to their one-star review. The most recent change began with, we have never once kicked anyone out for bringing their own water bottles.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
And it ended with, maybe unlearn your bias towards Indigenous people. It's very racist.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normalgossip.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
You can follow me on all social media at heydenay. H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Rix and Jay Tolviera. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Dujon-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors Business Guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Tom Leigh is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Catherine Xu, Brandi Jensen, Louise Pace-Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to episode four, y'all. Today, I am so, so excited to be joined by Alana Bennett. Alana is a screenwriter and culture writer who has written for film and television, including shows like Exo Kitty and Roswell.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Yeah, that seems hard to shake as a story. Also, if the relationship progressed, at some point you would have to meet the magician brother.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
No, exactly. Why is it still in your bedroom? It was not for a stage show. That's for magician sex. Yes. If you're a famous magician, there's no way that when you pull that they're not expecting some kind of like magic involved. It just goes along with it. But I just don't want to be close to that.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Oh, Alana, that was a beautiful story. Thank you so much. I'm going to be telling that story as soon as I leave this recording.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
I think you're going to like this story. Some might say it's a bit of a magical match. Our story today takes place in a desert town in Southwestern America. It's the kind of place that attracts artistic hippie types, the kind of place that proudly identifies as weird. Everything is sun bleached and there's a lot of turquoise. If you need a music cue, think Wide Open Spaces by The Chicks.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Does this vibe appeal to you? Are you a fan of the desert?
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Yes. I want to be in a car. I don't want to be out in the desert. Correct. Yes. Okay. Today we have two friends of a friend. Their names are Madeline and Nicole. And they've been best friends since the sixth grade when they bonded over being the first in their grade to get braces. Traumatic experience. I get it. Yeah. They've been inseparable ever since. They call each other Nick and Mads.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Alana's writing has appeared in the New York Times, Teen Vogue, The Cut, and every other important publication. Her first novel, The Education of Kia Greer, comes out May 13th.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Because two gens is all it took to get her going. Yeah. Yes. Nicole and Madeline have been traveling together since they had enough money to do so, so the idea of a two-day road trip is thrilling to them and not daunting. The road trip becomes even more thrilling the closer they get to town, which I will now be referring to as Tumbleweed Springs. Okay, perfect.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
About 40 miles out, Madeline spots a billboard for something other than Jesus and personal injury lawyers. Alana, how do you feel about magic shows?
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Real. So Madeline's not necessarily obsessed with magic. She just saw David Copperfield at a formative age. So as soon as she sees this sign which advertises an adult magic show right in Tumbleweed Springs starring the mysterious Steve... Okay. She turns to Nicole and is like, the mysterious Steve? The billboard doesn't have anything else on it except a silhouette graphic of a crow.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Nicole laughs and is like, I forgot about that billboard. And she tells Madeline that she had actually never been to the show because it was 21 plus and she hadn't visited Tumbleweed Springs since college. And then Nicole admits that she's low-key always wanted to see it, especially because everyone in Tumbleweed Springs is so weird about it.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Well, like, if you ask anyone in town about the show, they'll say they can't talk about it with anyone who hasn't seen it. Oh. It's kind of a main attraction in Tumbleweed Springs. Like people have bumper stickers on their cars that say, I've seen the mysterious Steve. The bumper stickers also have the silhouette of a crow. Okay. Would you want to check out the mysterious Steve?
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
I'm so excited you're here. My first question is, do you consider yourself a gossip? Yes.
Normal Gossip
The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Yeah. Madeline immediately finds the Facebook business page for the mysterious Steve and buys two tickets for the following evening.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
A couple of minutes later, Madeline receives confirmation along with a list of rules. So the rules are as follows. No outside water bottles slash drinks or food are allowed in the domicile of Mysterious Steve. There will be a cash theater bar serving themed cocktails and snacks. Be there 15 minutes before the show starts because the doors close at 9 p.m.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Patrons are not allowed to wear hats or sneakers as Mysterious Steve finds this disrespectful.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
And then the final rule is please confirm by way of response that you have read and understood everything. Oh. What do you think of these rules?
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
These are all great questions. Madeline also thinks the last part is a little weird about confirming, but she responds and she confirms that she sees everything. And she asks, can we bring empty reusable water bottles to fill up? The account responds back, no need. We sell bottles of water. Madeline and Nicole are like, fine, sure, whatever.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
The next day comes and it is the first time our ladies start to get a sense of the task ahead of them. Grandma Jean does have immaculate taste, but she, like most older people, has some hoarding tendencies. So the next day is spent tossing out cans of soup that expired in the early aughts. Oh, yes. And sorting through decades of old life magazines.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
By the time the evening rolls around, Madeline and Nicole are more than ready for a magical experience.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
When they arrive at the theater, it's about the size of a single screen movie theater. And it is immediately clear that it hasn't been updated since the late 80s, at least.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
Yeah, there's no security. The shag carpet has been mowed down by generations of feet.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
There's a lot of royal red and dark purple velvet. The chandeliers are plentiful and also very dusty. There are a bunch of signed pictures up at the theater, like at Benihana. Okay. Instead of celebrities who have been to see Mysterious Steve, it's just a bunch of photos of the Mysterious Steve with his mentor, the fabulous Matt. Okay. Yeah.
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The Most Ominous Bird with Alanna Bennett
At the door, our ladies are greeted by Mysterious Thieves' assistant, Indigo. Indigo is draped from head to foot in flowy linen and her silver hair is braided into a butt-length braid. Indigo looks at Nicole very solemnly as she checks their tickets and then says that as the town's resident quantum healer, she would recommend Nicole work on her vibrations.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I want to tell you about a new show from Radiotopia Presents that we are so excited about. It's called Red for Revolution, and it is a six-part audio drama about Black women, queer love, and liberation. In the show, we meet Jasmine, an 18-year-old who's grappling with her emerging queer identity and first crush, all while trying to mend her relationship with her homophobic mother.
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Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
That TMZ shot of her walking up the elevator, her face just absolutely so angry. Beyonce in the background trying to look serious, but you can see her smiling a little bit because she was like, someone had to do it and I couldn't do it. And then Jay-Z just in the background, head down.
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Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
The way there was a bodyguard in the elevator and Solange still got her licks in.
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Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
No, exactly. She's like, I gotta give this dress back. This was a rental. I don't condone violence publicly. However... That was iconic. I love Solange. The love of a little sister for her big sister. I don't know because I don't have sisters, but I've seen it play out.
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Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So the last question is, I'm running for political office against my boss's best friend. How do I tell my boss?
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Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
We have officially started production on season eight. Eight of Normal Gossip, which will come out this spring. We have picked a lot of the stories, but we still have a few spots left. So if you have gossip for us, now is the time. Send all your mess to normalgossipatdefector.com. As a reminder of some of the kinds of gossip that I am absolutely desperate for...
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
My instinctive reaction, which is maybe not helpful in this situation, is you don't owe that bitch anything. They'll find out when they go vote or whenever they see the campaigning slogans. They'll figure it out. Why do you have to tell your boss about your political aspirations? Your boss's best friend. Who is that to you? Right. And it's not on company time. Right.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So our collective choice is don't tell that person.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Do you want to hear my platform?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Remind them when voting day is. Remind them where their local polling station is. Tell them local elections are very important, the most important. Very. The most important, especially in these times. Become a poll worker. Vote in your local elections. But other than that... Don't tell them. You don't have to tell them shit.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
real estate gossip, gossip that is secretly a romance novel, fandom gossip, service industry or retail gossip, mega church gossip, Pokemon Go gossip, polycule gossip, road trip gossip, tabletop gaming gossip, and family lore gossip. If all of that sounds amazing and makes you think, wow, I miss normal gossip so much. Don't forget, we have a newsletter.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Wow. I really wasn't sure how we would reach a quorum on that last question, but I'm proud of us. We immediately were both just like, you don't owe that bitch shit. But now onto the part that y'all have all been waiting for, which is the gossip. We've got some little tidbits that have been gathered for us and we're both so excited. You might recognize the voices reading these morsels.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Thank you so much to J. Tolviera and Alex Ujong-Loughlin for lending your incredible voice acting chops to this episode. Let's hear the first one.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Okay, on one level, I'm proud of your children for collectively organizing.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Exactly. As a bitch with long arms relative to her body, that fucking rule that's like your dress has to reach the bottom of your fingertips, for some people, that's mid-thigh. For me, that is knee length because I have a really big wingspan.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
It makes benching really hard. But yeah. So actually, I think the eighth graders are right. That's how I feel about this. Power to the people.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Why would you do that? Who would do that? That's so rude.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
No, same. Actually, so true. I need to know how different the fake is from the real. Because if it's a pretty close replica, if it's like, what, that Walmart Birkin that everyone's talking about... Then I'm kind of just like, okay, they tried. But if it's just an immediate fake, like the Birkins in Canal Street, then perhaps I have questions. And have we found out who it was?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Like, these are things we need to know. Your mother needs to go investigation mode. She needs to be requesting the tapes. She needs to be running back to that security footage. She needs to be doing fingerprint dusting because I need to know who took her stuffed toy off her desk and then replaced it with a fake.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
There's no way whoever submitted this could have known how hard this would hit for me specifically.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So all of you know me as Rachel spelled with an extra L-E at the end. It's giving Rochelle. It's giving French. It's special. It's confusing for a lot of people. The people who pronounce my name correctly upon first meeting me, I'm a little bit just like, where'd you come from? My parents spelled my name the normal way, as in R-A-C-H-E-L.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
For most of my life, I thought that was how my name was spelled. And by most of my life, I mean up until I was like 9 or 10. That's not most of my life at this point, Jesus Christ. Anyway, I found out when my family moved from Chicago to Texas...
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And I started going to Texas public school that my name legally is spelled Rochelle, despite the fact that I grew up with my entire family and my old school spelling it the old way. So it turns out my name is spelled incorrectly on my birth certificate because the nurse just kind of decided to go rogue. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
My parents were like, we want our child's name to be Rachel Danae, spelled R-A-C-H-E-L, Danae, D-A-N-A-E. And when we got the birth certificate a few months later, I don't know why it was so late. I wasn't conscious I was a baby. It's spelled Rochelle Danae with an apostrophe in the Danae. D apostrophe N-A-E. I was born in Chicago.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
It goes out every two weeks and has blogs and recommendations from me and Kelsey, Alex, Sierra, and Jay, and a bunch of our defector buddies. If you'd like to sign up, the link is in the show notes. Okay, last bit of business, I promise. Kelsey's book is coming out soon. Is that even business? That's also a treat. If you haven't pre-ordered it yet, that link is also in the show notes.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
In the south side of Chicago, some nurse was like, this girl needs a little space.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So I go to Texas and the public school is like, we call you your legal name. And so I was like, okay, now I have to tell everyone my name is Rochelle Rachel. And my parents are like, don't worry, we'll fix it. We have to go back to the county we're born in to fix it. But then I take like my SATs and it's all under my government name.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And then I get my passport and it's all under my government name. And then I was like, you know what? At this point, it's a funny story to tell in interviews whenever I walk into a room and they're like, hello, Rochelle. And it's like, actually, it's Rachel. It's spelled wrong on my birth certificate. And everyone's like, what? And then it just kind of breaks the tension.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And honestly, I've gotten every job that I've ever told that story in. So, Power to the nurse, I guess. Thank you. All the same. Benjamin. Benjamin. I get it. There are a lot of legal implications, which is why I have not changed my name. It's so much paperwork. And then it doesn't go through for a long time. Like a lot of people who change their names understand this.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
If you get married, if you transition, like for whatever reason, you're changing your legal name. It's a lot of fucking work and it gets harder the older you get. So I'm sorry, but you married Benjamin. That's Benjamin right there.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
that's benjamin and you know what it's the same person that's so true what is a rose by any other name that rose's name is benjamin and he still smells sweet i hope i would literally call him benjamin the entire time yeah this is a perfect opportunity for an extended bit like benjamin come over here
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Does your landlord live in your house? Or what is this rental situation?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
This is your home and your landlord doesn't live there. You're renting it from them, but they just decided to have a cuddle party in your home. That violates so much. Because that violates your lease 100%. There is 100% a clause in your lease somewhere about warrant of habitability or some shit that will say this is not legal. Are you invited to the cuddle party? Are they allowed in your bedroom?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Or is it just a cuddle puddle on the floor? The way my brain is doing mental gymnastics. 18 to 20 people feels like a lot of people. I, like, I'm gonna be honest. I have, like, a pretty decently sized couch. And even cuddling with one other person on the couch gets real crowded really fast. Yeah. I usually disavow neighborhood Facebook pages because they scare me.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
There are still tickets to see me and Kelsey gabbing about her book on February 11th in New York at Town Hall. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Okay, that's it. I promise. On to your first of many little treats. I am thrilled to welcome Normal Gossip's new lead producer, Sierra Spagli-Rix, to the front of the microphone.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
But I'm going to need you to stay on this Facebook page. And I need you to get an invite to the cuddle party. I'm sorry. You need to take one for the team.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Please update us because I have many, many questions. I need to know.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
None of these words are in the Bible, I would like to say. That's A. B. Why did Pokemon Go put one of their whatever sites on someone's private property?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Like on one hand, I kind of agree with your situation, Chip. If some random, if like just a horde of random people were coming to my home every so often and hanging out in the lawn, I would be a little stressed out by that. On the other hand, why are you petting them?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yeah. No, exactly. I understand why he's annoyed. Is there no way to like contact the app and be like, yo, you put one of your little landing sites in my backyard. Yeah. Did this affect your situationship standing, finding out that this happened? Ooh. Because this gossip is told very neutrally in a way that I appreciate, but I also want to know if you were like, ooh, that's an ick, which I get.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
As some of you may know, Sierra and I worked together on Slate's Internet Culture Podcast, in case you missed it, where we found out we're both March Pisces. It shouldn't then be surprising that we fell in love immediately. Sierra, hello. Welcome to the front of the mic. How are you feeling? Hi.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I could spend at least half an hour with that last one, honestly. Yes. But unfortunately, it's now time to address the passing of time. It's 2025. It is. Sierra, do you believe in New Year's resolutions?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yeah. I might steal that. It's pretty cool. Resolutions feel like a lot of pressure. And I have never really attached a lot of meaning to New Year's. No. It always feels anticlimactic to me. Every single time I'm just like, okay. Okay. Another year has passed. It's now 2025. I'm not going to internalize that until March. We all know that.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I'm going to be writing 2024 for at least the next three months. So New Year's resolutions don't really hit for me. But I'm wondering if these next few resolutions that listeners send Tess will inspire us. Okay. Okay. The first one is, I resolve to leave my current job and take my crew with me. As someone who did that, I will go ahead and say, fuck yeah. It's great. 10 out of 10 recommend.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
That's so real. That's so real. But if there's a space for vulnerability, it's right here with me.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I read that and I was like, is this about us? Is this play about us? Why not? Like, literally, it worked for us. That's a great resolution. 10 out of 10 recommend. The next one is, I want to watch all 10 Fast and Furious movies. That's an achievable goal. I just watched Fast 10 for the first time with my family over the holidays. I hadn't seen Fast... No, I have seen Fast 9.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I saw Fast 9 in theaters. That's the one where they went to space. And then I saw the one where there's the safe being dragged behind them. And then I've seen the original three. Everything else that happens in that universe... This is a good year to watch those movies because they exist in a universe that is not real.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So for today's episode, we've got a real buffet of treats. First, we're going to answer some burning questions that y'all have for me and Ciara. Then later in the episode, we'll be reacting to some delectable morsels of gossip. And finally... New Year's resolutions. Y'all have them and we'll be giving our thoughts. I'm excited. Are you excited?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
They're not dead. And then someone came back at the end that everyone thought was dead. And I was like, see, if that bitch can come back, why can't this other bitch that just died?
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I laughed out loud when that happened in the theater. And I was one of the only people who laughed. And I was like, please don't tell me y'all are taking this shit seriously. I cannot look at Tyrese Gibson staring at the screen and saying, we're going to space? Yes.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
All of this to say, this is a wonderful resolution because your mind will be occupied watching these movies because nothing makes sense
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And it's very fun to kind of just pick apart in a way that's like, what are we even doing here? The perfect escape. The perfect escape for this time. Next resolution is, I want to try a new class every month. Pottery, fitness, etc. Please suggest... I love this. Absolutely love it. I think this is a really good idea.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
One of the classes that I would recommend, I've been looking for classes to take with my best friend. We get each other Christmas presents, and the Christmas present that I got her, her sister already got her, so I have to think of a second one. Okay. Piss me off. But I found some dumpling making classes in New York and some sushi making classes as well.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So I think I'm going to buy her one of those and we're going to do it together. So that is an option. I think there's a kind of cuisine that seems a little complicated. Having someone take you through is really fun. I've looked into woodworking classes. Those are very expensive. But you do come out with like a side table. So I'm going to be honest, the money feels worth it. Yes. Oh, aerial yoga.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I walked past someone doing it in a building and I was like, I don't be one of those people who's just like looking in on people doing fitness because nothing freaks me out more. But I was like, I want to do that. I want to be swinging from the chandelier like fucking Sia. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yay. I love that. I can't wait. Wow.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Actually, one of my friends took, this is the same friend, took a sewing class at the Fashion Institute in New York. But I think there are probably a lot of places that do sewing classes. And that is something that when I have more free time, I'll be very interested in getting into because I love the idea of being able to like make or mend my own clothes.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yes. Just picture me steepling my fingers like a villain. That's what I'm doing right now. But before we get into the morsels of gossip, some questions. So the very first one, and I'm excited to hear this one, is one of our listeners says they need to know Ciara's relationship with gossip immediately.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Wow. And then the last one, I like this one. The last resolution is to give fewer fucks in general.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
As she seeks solace and guidance from her grandmother, we're transported back to 1971 to follow the passionate love affair between a jazz singer and an activist. Two remarkable women from vastly different backgrounds with opposing political views and living oceans apart risk everything to embark on a romance that defies all conventions. This show has everything.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Amen. Yeah, truly. I mean, I would say my addendum to this would be to place my fucks in the correct spaces. There are a lot of things that I think we should all just care less about. What celebrities are doing. It's not activism to care about what celebrities are doing. They're never going to represent us. I think giving fewer fucks about the just TikTok coverage of the Trump administration.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
If there's anything I learned from the first Trump administration is that a lot of people will spend a lot of time spinning theories that don't happen. And the things that actually happen will be entirely surprising and devastating in ways that we couldn't have guessed.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And I don't really want to listen to pundits or people on Twitter who are just spiraling and scared and trying to control their fear by trying to guess what's coming next. I get it. I also try to control my fear by predicting the future. But unfortunately, I don't have that ability and neither does Ezra Klein. So I don't want to pay attention to those people.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I want to respond to the moment that we're in.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yeah. Ciara, thank you for coming on the show. Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. I mean, technically you're always here.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
If you don't, I'll come to all of your houses. And fight you. No! Personally. No, no. I'll be getting in street fights for Ciara's honor. This is my bestie. This is the love of my life. I'm so glad that this happened. I know you said it's a rare occurrence, but we might be making it less rare as time goes on. So this hopefully is not the last time y'all get to hear from Ciara on mic.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Rix and J. Tolviera. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Dujon-Laughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors Business Guys. Alex Dujon-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Le is our editor-in-chief.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art, thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I am your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you did not hear this from me.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
That's a football team right there. I don't know how many players on a football team, but. but that's a football team right there.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
No, you really were. You were orchestrating. You were hearing the sides. You were putting them together. You were making a coherent storyline. There's nothing better as a child than being in grown folks' business. It feels life-giving.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Of course. How could you not with an introduction like that? But I do think this segues into the next question, which is, how long have Rachel and Ciara been friends? Based on the way we're talking, you would think it's been 20 years at least.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Two. Yeah, we met at the beginning of 2023. So it's been two years as of this January.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
We also come from, I think, pretty similar places in terms of like region, ethnicity, ethnicity. So I think, especially in journalism, finding someone who understands that background and kind of speaks the same language as you. I remember the first time that I said something and got Sierra to respond with, bitch! Bitch!
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And we were working, obviously, and we didn't know each other that well at that point. It had maybe been like a month or two. And I was over here just grinning because I was like, got her. And Sierra was like, I'm so sorry. You're my host. And I was like, girl, we're in for a ride. We're locked in now.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yeah, and you know, we've been through some shit together. That's gossip that is not for this podcast, but we have been through some shit together and nothing bonds you like going through some shit together and making it out the other end.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Romance, family drama, history, fantastic original music, and a killer cast, including Loretta Devine, S. Impatha Merkerson, Danny Glover, and Jennifer Beals. Radiotopia presents Red for Revolution, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my beautiful flock of gossip birds. Welcome to a bonus episode of Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
It's real. I just remember when I would go on vacation, you would do the little like sealy crap from Color Purple. Yeah. And I was like, this girl is ridiculous and she is for me. Like, I'm like, girl, I'm going to be back next week. And he would just be like. I'm like, no. Don't leave me, Rachel! And now you're stuck with me forever.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
We're here. Wow. The next question is, do we have any defector gossip? We had a little party for the finale of season seven, which was my first episode hosting. I don't know if this is gossip, but... When I get nervous, like most people, I'm just like, give me another drink. So that day, everyone came over to my apartment basically to watch the episode published.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Let me tell you, there is nothing more anticlimactic than publishing a podcast episode. Oh my God. You're over here thinking this is something I have spent the last many months of my life being nervous about. And then it just goes live and nothing happens. Right. Because obviously nothing happens. You're pressing publish on audio. It's so anticlimactic.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And we're just waiting for it to hit the airwaves. Exactly. And so someone brought champagne, which was very nice. And everyone left my house to go get ready, and there was half a bottle of champagne left. And if there's one thing that is true in my household, it's don't waste champagne. Because you can't save it. I mean, I don't have the means to save it.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I know there are means to save it, but I don't got it like that. So... I drank half the bottle of champagne and then went to dinner with my friends where they ordered a bottle of wine for the three of us. And then went to the party where they had this lovely little menu of special drinks, including one that was a delicious little vodka drink. Had three of those.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So the gossip that I have is that I was three sheets to the wind. That night, I was just like, I can't feel how bad my feet hurt in these shoes.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
So I didn't know. That's beautiful. I think I was too nervous to reach the normal Rachel state of drunkenness at that level, which is just me being like, I love you guys so much. I did cry at the bar that we went to afterwards. I remember you did cry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually I did get there, but I think I would have done that sober.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yes! Oh, my God! I forgot. Oh, my God. Let me tell you, when you called me at that point in the night, I was definitely three shoes to the wind because I had had another beer at that bar.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
The food was, it was finger food.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And I'm like, wait, who keys are these? Yeah. Important note, Sierra does not live in Brooklyn. So there's no reason for her to have her house keys in her pocket at a party in Brooklyn. Her house keys were probably in like your luggage or some stuff in the hotel. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Yeah. I remember you calling me in the bar. And again, I was what? Half a bottle of champagne, half a bottle of wine, three whiskey drinks and a beer into the night. So I just teeter my way outside and I'm like, why is Sierra calling me? And you're like... I have the wrong coat. And I immediately, as much as possible, sobered up and was just like, we're going to get it back. You were.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
You were very encouraging. I was like, don't worry. We're going to get it back. The thing is, I told you that, hung up, and was just like, I'm too drunk to deal with this. I don't know what to do. And so I went into the party where Kelsey still was. And I was like, my Virgo queen will fix everything. And so I go up to her and one of our staff writers, Gideon Nathan,
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
In case you have somehow missed that news, check out the season finale of season seven for updates and a delightful slash stressful tale that takes place on the high seas. We have got a little treat for you today because let's be real here. It's a rough time and you deserve a treat. But before I can serve your little treat, we have got to get down to a little bit of business. Some exciting news.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
And I'm just like, Kelsey, I have a problem. She's like, what? And I'm like, Sierra lost her coat. It's a family heirloom. It's been traded with someone else's. So she has someone's coat, but we don't know whose coat it is. And I was just like, I don't know what to do. And she just lays out a plan. And she's like, we're going to do, she's like, we can't do anything tonight.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
She's like, when does Sierra leave? And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. And then you found out who had your coat. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Incredible, incredible luck that that was in there. And Israel is Israel Daramola, who is a staff writer at Defector, who I'm not surprised that y'all swapped coats because you're both very fashionable. So once you told me it was Israel's, I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, that tracks. Actually, I understand.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
I just remember getting your Slack message that you figured out it was Israel and that you were going to swap. And I was the most hungover I've ever been in my entire life. And I was just like... If I could pull myself up into a vertical position, I would be jumping for joy. But I simply can't do that. I was like, I'm so happy for you. I need to go lay in a dark room somewhere.
Normal Gossip
Champagne, Capers, and Cuddle Parties with Se’era Spragley Ricks
Y'all was like, crisis averted. Okay, great. I can go back to being hungover. So that's the defect of gossip. I got too drunk. Ciara had a caper all on her own. Listen. Okay, next question. What is your favorite piece of celebrity gossip of all time? Remember when Solange punched Jay-Z in the elevator?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I'm Eric Glass. On This American Life, we tell real-life stories, really good ones.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
How did you know the next question I was going to ask, which is about Friend of the Pod, Gabby Wendy. And also Chrishell Stoss, who I feel like I have been trying to nail down recently. how to describe their game. They call themselves the Bambis. And I have a twofold question, which is how would you describe their game? You mentioned an emotional game.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
And also, how do you think their gameplay utilizes gossip?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
And that perfectly segues into today's special guest here to talk all about her book, her tour, and you guessed it, gossip. We've got the one, the only, Kelsey McKinney in the house. Kelsey, hello.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it really goes back to one of the points that you really kind of hammer home on in your book, which is that gossip is ultimately... a quest for knowing the right way to live in the world.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Huge news! Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times best-selling book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, mostly true notes on gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
publicity publishing gossip um part of why i miss you so much is because you've been trapped in the book press mind i really have this isn't your first time releasing a book everyone go bye god spare the girls but i wanted to ask what's been different this time around my god tell me about the machinery i feel like most people don't know what goes on behind the scenes
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I'm so happy you're here.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
And it's far more about yourself as a person, right? There's this way that people tend to believe, even if they don't mean to, that fiction is about the author, even though the point is that it's fake and that you made it all up.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
No, that is truly a crime. And there are many crimes being done, but that is certainly one of them. It's hurtful. It's really hurtful. Yes. I miss you. Your loyal legion of gossip mongers miss you. I miss all of you so much. How has life on the other side been?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And I think we both. Well, let me not speak for you. I find nonfiction to be far more revealing of an author than fiction is. But I wanted to ask this time around or even the way people are kind of talking to you about you didn't hear this from me. Are the questions you're getting asked more or less personal than they were for God Spare the Girls?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Mm-hmm. I mean, getting into questions, are there any that you're sick of answering?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Like, Like when you drive home and you're like, how did I get from point A to point B?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Do you feel like that changes your answer? Like, do you feel like your relationship to gossip has changed through being asked so much about what your relationship to gossip is?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Yeah. You learn some things that you don't perhaps need to know. Yeah. Do you have any questions about the book that you wish you'd been asked?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
You want to talk a little bit about it right now?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Wow. That's going to be beautiful.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Are you going to do a transformation?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I feel like that's kind of the crux of cancel culture. Oh, God. Yeah. You saw the face I was making before I actually got to what I was saying. Yeah. But I think in the most generous light possible, at the beginning of what cancel culture now is, the question was, can gossip, can something negative about someone outweigh this other thing about them? How do we actually have a full view of someone
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
That's not just their best and not just their worst. How do we integrate that into one person and our understanding of them so we don't just discard them, but we also don't just exalt them?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
They were outright rewarded in some cases at this point.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
complicated problem to like something by someone that you think is bad yeah going through that right now with Neil Gaiman who yeah that's a great example behind me has at least three to four books of his Coraline is one of my favorite movies yeah I don't know the next time I'll be able to engage with his work
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I need all the folds in my brain just steamed out like a beautiful piece of linen. Mm-hmm.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Well, speaking of things that are hard.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
One thing that I know is hard about publishing a nonfiction book specifically is that the book came out February 11th, but you put your finishing touches on this book several months ago. Yeah, probably in August. I'm sure there are so many things, especially coming from someone who is a blogger at heart. I'm so bad.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
And I wanted to ask you, what are the things that you would have added into the book if you were to be writing it right now? Because I'm sure there are so many things that you're just like, ah! Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Well, today, as I said at the top, we've got a super special episode planned. Since Kelsey has so kindly blessed us with her presence, I'm going to ask her all my burning questions about You Didn't Hear This From Me and her life as a famous author. Kelsey, are you ready? I guess so, yeah. Oh, my God. Okay, first, the book, beautiful. Let's just start there. I love her.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Yeah. I can already see that chapter.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
It would have been a banger. It would have been a banger. I mean, re-release in 10 years with updated essays. Who can say? It'll have gold foil on it.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Don't hit me with a good time. They're so pretty.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Thank you for coming back, Kelsey.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I am very excited. I feel like it's very similar to the normal gossip announcement in that this is something that I've known about for a hot minute. And so by the time it becomes public, I almost forget that it's happening. And then I'm almost like... How do you know that? And it'll be like, oh, I told you. I announced it. I announced it publicly. Yes. That'll happen to you.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Surprising stories every week, This American Life. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
It's very strange when people now know or talk to me or like congratulations. I'm just like, for what? What? Yeah. What are you talking about? That's a secret. Well, I'm very excited. I can't wait to listen.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I'm so excited for you to get to listen to this show as a fan.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
You'll have to let me know how the twist hit.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
You heard it here. It's going to be great. Thank you, Kelsey. Everyone go bye.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Anytime, my queens. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normal gossip.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
You can follow me on all social media at Hayden A. That's H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Sprague-Rix and Jay Tolvira. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Sujong-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Tom Leigh is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned, subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Radiotopia.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Can I read you the first thing I underline?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Don't worry. It's not a direct quote from you. Oh, thank God. That's later. In the very first chapter, you quote from a book about five Victorian marriages that I immediately wrote down that I wish to read. That is written by Phyllis Rose. And Rose writes, Gossip may be the beginning of moral inquiry, the low end of the platonic ladder which leads to self-understanding.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
We are desperate for information about how other people live because we want to know how to live ourselves. Yet we are taught to see this desire as an illegitimate form of prying.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
It's really nice to know that my interest in other people's marriages is just simply a human trait that I will not be trying to eradicate anymore.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
It's designed to keep me safe. Yeah. That's what this is for. But I wanted to talk about the idea of gossip as a tool for self-understanding. And I wanted to know if you feel like there's something about yourself that you have understood better through gossip.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Hello, my gorgeous gossipy darlings. Welcome to another bonus episode of Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and we've got a super special show planned for you today. But first, we have to do a little housekeeping. You know, who doesn't love a freshly vacuumed rug?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I've been watching Sex and the City for the first time recently.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I know. But I found myself really turned off by some of the things that Miranda does. And I said this to my roommate and she said, that's really funny because I kind of consider you Miranda in some regards, a mixture of Miranda and Charlotte.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
And I feel like some of the things that we find most distasteful in other people are often the things that are true about ourselves. And so I've wondered if you found that as you have been really doing this inquiry into gossip, where there are things, kind of first instinct reactions that you're like, oh, this actually says a lot about me and my personality. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
The first bit of housekeeping, in case it's not totally clear from what I just said or the title of this episode, this is a bonus episode. We are living in some dark times, and we here at the Normal Gossip team thought y'all deserved... Some little between season treats to tide you over. But soon, normal, normal gospel return. We're in the middle of production. We're going to start recording soon.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
So would you say that that has made you more either like empathetic towards other people or sympathetic towards yourself? Like, do you feel like you offer yourself more grace?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I don't know that it is. It's not beautiful that it happens.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
That is true. so real i hate when my therapist does that i know she's like why do you think it's interesting and it's like hold on everyone thinks it's interesting let's stop let's stop thinking about me i'm here to host a lecture this is a tight 45 that i'm doing you're here this is a ted talk that you happen to be present for and that i'm paying to do Okay, back to you. Okay.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
One thing I really, really love about You Didn't Hear This From Me and also just the project of normal gossip in general is that I think you really lean into the ambiguity of gossip's nature. There's not a lot of ambiguity in society today. Everything's a take.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
And to borrow Rose's phrasing, you do a really good job of kind of undermining the society-wide illegitimacy of gossip. But I also appreciate that you don't lean too hard in the other direction and make it out to be this inherently moral good. And you describe it, and you have said it already, as gossip is a tool.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
I'm curious as to whether you think the nature of the tool is controlled more by the wielder of the tool, so the giver of the gossip. Mm-hmm. Or by whom the tool is wielded against, which is the subject of the gossip. Or is it some secret third thing, in this case, the audience for the gossip? Who do you think kind of controls the nature of the gossip more? Ooh.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
And we've got some incredible stories that I cannot wait for y'all to hear. To that end. Second bit of housekeeping, we have a season eight premiere day. The next season of Normal Gossip will premiere on Wednesday, April 9th, 2025. Mark your calendars, babes, with a big fat star. And last bit of housekeeping, I promise this area rug, she's really big.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Yeah, it's like a piece of gossip will land differently with someone depending on the kind of societal context that they come from. Like something that feels even noteworthy in, I don't know, the UK might not feel noteworthy here. I think about this as One Direction. I think I said this on one of our bonus episodes. I think one of the reasons Larry Stylinson became such a big deal...
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
It's because there's a far bigger culture of touching in male friendships in the UK than there is here. And that cultural difference, I think, gave a lot of air for what is ultimately gossip.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Ooh, what's the difference?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Your chapter, Knowledge is Power, is about one of our absolute favorite topics. Reality television. Reality television. Now's the time for me to read something you wrote. Oh, God. Uh-oh. You write, "'Knowledge is Power' and reality television is a kind of warped mirror. It shows us who we were, what we want, and how we relate to others."
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
One of the many things it reflects is that gossip is how we decide whom to trust and whom not to trust. It helps us decide who is safe and who is not, who will protect us and who won't. You also write in that chapter about traitors in an incredible TV show and Tom Sandoval of Sandoval fame, who are currently engaging in one of the most iconic crossovers of the century. Oh my God.
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Can we talk for a second about Tom Sandoval's performance on Traitors? Do you think it is in any way a response to Scandival or is he just like that?
Normal Gossip
Bonus Episode: Life as a New York Times Bestselling Author with Kelsey McKinney
Dowager Queen of Gossip, Kelsey McKinney, is currently on book tour. By the time this episode drops, you'll still be able to see her in Chicago or Toronto. If you're in the Midwest or in Canada, you're so lucky. And no matter where you live, you'll be able to buy Kelsey's incredible book, You Didn't Hear This From Me, Mostly True Notes on Gossip.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Today, I am so excited to have none other than Sam Sanders joining me for the First repeat performance of this season. Sam was on the very first season of Normal Gossip in an episode called Digmatize. Sam is a multi-hyphenate. You might know him from any of the many shows he has created and hosted. Currently, though, you can hear him on Vibe Check with Saeed Jones and Zach Stafford.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So when Drew touches down in Cartagena, he's on a high and he is just really, really looking forward to a kayak tour that he's already booked on. You guessed it. Hostel World. Girl, that's work.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
See, I was going to ask, are you an activities person on vacation? But I'm getting a subtle hint that you're not.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew loves a little tour. This little tour is departing from the beach at 8 in the morning.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
8 in the morning. They're kayaking to a nearby island that apparently has a breathtaking view of the city. And then they're going to eat breakfast on the island. And then they're going to return to Cartagena before noon so they can beat the afternoon heat. There are three other people who get up at this time for this tour.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
There are a pair of girls from Denmark, who will be referred to as the Danish girls, and a guy from Australia named Oliver. Technically, there are four if you count the guide, but we don't really care about the guide, so they're not important. Okay, okay. The Danish girls are in one kayak and Oliver and Drew are in another.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And Drew can't help noticing that as they're chatting and paddling that Oliver keeps winking at him.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew also can't help noticing that Oliver can't actually wink that well, so he just keeps emphatically blinking. But Drew's like, okay, I think I know what's going on. And when Oliver mentions his ex-boyfriend with an emphasis on boy, Drew's like, okay, I definitely know what's going on.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, somehow Drew manages to notice that Oliver is cute, despite only being able to see the upper part of his body in a very stereotypically Australian way. Like, very tan, very blonde, very friendly. How are you feeling so far?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Ooh. Let's not talk about that last episode.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew actually hasn't experienced a whole lot of romance on this trip besides like a dance floor makeout in Mexico City. And Drew's like, we need further plot development. So this is all working in his favor. So our kayakers get to the island and they have a lovely breakfast. Everyone's like, isn't this the best fruit you've ever seen in your entire life? Like, they see some beautiful views.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And it's when they're heading back to the island and Drew is getting into the kayak that his foot slips. And he feels his, like, calves scrape against, like, the wooden edge of the dock before he falls into the ocean.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Luckily, Drew is not me and he is a strong swimmer. So it wasn't too hard for him to get back to shore. But Drew is like, I have tripped very dramatically in front of a cute guy. My clothes are soaked and my leg is bleeding profusely.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And also, you can, of course, hear Sam Sanders on the Sam Sanders Show on KRCW. Hi, Sam. Thank you so much for joining me and welcome back.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Sam, I swear you're psychic. Drew doesn't have a chance to do that because Oliver immediately rushes over to help. And Oliver takes off his shirt and applies pressure to Drew's bleeding leg.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew can't help noticing Oliver is very muscular.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
They actually went to go find a first aid kit. Oliver tells Drew this as he is like, are you okay? That looked like it hurt pretty badly. And Drew thinks he sounds very brave when he's like, it's not that bad. It is that bad.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
It hurt like a bitch and honestly probably could have used stitches.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
The thing is, though, Drew doesn't feel like navigating a healthcare system in a country he doesn't live in. Same. So they get back to the city and once they're back, Drew goes to a pharmacy to stock up on like bandages and disinfectants. And since he only has a few days left in Columbia, he's like, I'll just keep it clean. I'll take it easy.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I'll probably be home by the time anything goes wrong, if anything goes wrong, which it probably won't. Do you think this is wise?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
That? is a fair concern. But Drew's not really pressed at the moment. Like, by the time he finishes bandaging his leg, his primary thought is, time to get back to the plot. He shoots Oliver a DM on Hostile World.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
That low-key seems to be what it's giving. Yes. So Drew DMs Oliver like, I owe you for taking such good care of me. Dinner tonight? On me? Okay. So Drew hears a little notification sound from Hostel World and Oliver responds like, I'd love to with a little smiley face. Just name the time and place.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So a few hours later, Oliver and Drew meet up in the historic center of Cartagena at a restaurant that has like linens on the table and low music playing and candles lit. Like everything is screaming date in capital letters. Including the flirty little banter between Oliver and Drew.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So they continue the night after dinner with a romantic little stroll through the city. They're walking slowly, allegedly because of Drew's fucked up leg. We all know that's not why they're walking slowly. They're falling in love. Drew's like, this is low-key giving Florence Nightingale, but a plot's a plot. A plot's a plot. A plot's a plot. Eventually, they find a bench by the beach.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Again, allegedly to rest Drew's fucked up leg. But again, we all know what's really going on here. Drew is at the point where he's starting to feel like a little bit grateful for his fucked up leg.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
This is a peace mission. The mission starts going even more successfully because Oliver kisses Drew.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
You're staying in a bunk room in a hostel. Do you try to hook up?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew is like, my legs honestly starting to hurt a little bit and I'm not taking you back to my bunk room in a hostel. So they just end their night with a cute little make out and make plans to meet up the following morning for breakfast. Well, something I forgot to mention about Drew is that he has boyfriend energy, but he's also kind of a hopeless romantic. He's just a little too into Lord Byron.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
You did. You did. You said the red flag was that he was tall, that he was cute, and that he was a bartender. And ever since then, whenever I see a tall, cute bartender, I say, I shouldn't.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, his friends have told him that he can accidentally love bomb people. It's never an accident. Well, Drew's like, it's just because the bar for romance is so low these days.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
That's the name of the game here. Judge early and often.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
The morning after Drew and Oliver's makeout on the bench, Drew like hobbles his way around the neighborhood to prep a little breakfast picnic for the two of them. He buys some jam and fresh bread. When he sees a little bouquet of flowers, he's like, why not? Let's set the mood.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
If someone did this for me, I would be like, you want to get married.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Immediately. We'll start that paperwork right now. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah, when Oliver sees Drew with all of his picnic supplies, Oliver is like the shocked Pikachu meme. His eyes wide open. It's too much. Drew's a little bit like, damn, bitch, you live like this? He's like, this is the bare minimum. You deserve better than this. Oliver gives him one of his little fucked up winks that's not really a wink.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And he's like, I'm starting to think I do deserve better. They go have their little picnic and they're resuming their flirty little banter. They're talking about their travels and their zodiac signs. Oliver is a Pisces. Drew is a Sagittarius. Okay. Okay. Oliver's telling Drew about his Venus and cancer when he's like, yeah, I can get attached to people a little bit too easily.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And then Oliver is like, and I definitely absolutely believe in love at first sight.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Exactly. We, me and you, are part of a very exclusive group, which is the people who were guests on the very first season of Normal Gossip. We were on the train before everyone else. How does it feel to be a Normal Gossip hipster?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, then Oliver turns to him and is like, what if I told you that I love you? Wow. A man you have known for 30 hours has just asked you, what if I told you that I love you? What do you do?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, Drew is like, since we met yesterday, I would, probably say I don't love you back yep and Oliver sort of laughs and is like yeah you're right it would be crazy if I said something like that and then Oliver's like but you know hypothetically how do you feel about long distance girl so Drew chokes on a passion fruit seed at this point
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
He's like, my last relationship was long distance and it really didn't work, which is a lie. Do you think that this answer that Drew has given Oliver will satisfy Oliver?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah. Drew is like, I don't even really want to give him the chance to respond. So to distract Oliver, he starts making out with him. A flawless plan that works.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
He manages to keep things light until they get back to the hostel. And Oliver's like, let me know your plans for tomorrow. And Drew's like, yep, I'll keep you posted. Bye. Bye. Huge news. Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times bestselling book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, mostly true notes on gossip. And I am obsessed.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun. And not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audiobook, which Kelsey narrates. You can buy wherever you buy your books. You can also go to KelseyMcKinneyBook.com to see all retailers.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So Drew has just escaped Oliver. He gets back to his bunk room and he meets two new people who have moved in.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
These two new people will be referred to as the Canadians because they are from Canada. Drew and the Canadians vibe pretty well. So when the Canadians ask Drew if he wants to join them for a night out on the town, he immediately says yes. With that leg? Girl. But the plan for the night is to bar hop. So he feels optimistic that he'll be able to find... Hopping on one leg.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
He's like, I'll be able to find a seat.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
It does. Drew takes karaoke extremely seriously, but not in the annoying way. Not in the annoying way. Not in the Bohemian Rhapsody way. Exactly.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And everyone knows them. That's a great choice. Drew also has some staple songs. So he immediately sings with arms wide open by Creed with the Canadians.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yes. So they've just finished singing with arms wide open.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
They sing with arms wide open. But then into the bar walks none other than Oliver. Girl. The Canadians had been too friendly and had apparently posted about their karaoke night on the Hostel World app. This is a problem. Drew's like, I have been betrayed by my one true love, the Hostel World app.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
No exclusion here. Just recognize who paved the way. Recognize who saw the vision. It was Kelsey and then it was us.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Oliver immediately sidles up to Drew and he's like, you want to sing a song together? Do you sing a song together?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew's like, karaoke is a sacred space where no one can be excluded. So he's like, yeah, sure, fine. He perhaps makes another mistake by letting Oliver pick the song.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So Drew joins Oliver on stage and the opening notes of Islands in the Stream by Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers start playing.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, I do have some choice lyrics for us. There are, baby, when I met you, there was a peace unknown. Oh. And then there's, the message is clear. This could be the year for the real thing. Oh. And we cannot forget, all this love we feel needs no conversation.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Oliver is the human embodiment of the hard eyes emoji after this performance. But the thing is, Drew can't even deny that they crushed their performance. They have incredible chemistry.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
You've obviously already answered the question of what your relationship to gossip is. You said that gossip is a check on making sure that group norms are followed, which I love. But I wanted to ask, do you feel like your relationship to gossip has changed at all since 2022?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, Drew retreats into bro mode. He's like, dude, we did so good. And then he runs away to the bathroom. Did you like my bro voice?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So, do you end your night here? Yes. Or do you try to keep the night going?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I think that you're smarter than Drew because Drew is determined to keep the plot going.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So he gathers the Canadians and is like, I heard about this incredible jazz bar, but the line apparently gets really long after 11, so we should head out. And they make their escape as Oliver is on stage singing A Thousand Miles by Vanessa Carlton. The mess on mess.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
They make it to the jazz bar, which is dim, and the music's so loud that Drew can feel it in his bones, and it is absolutely free of Australians, so the vibe's immaculate. Okay, all right. Yeah. Okay. Drew and the Canadians stay until 1 a.m. when they get hungry, and they're like, let's go find a street cart, and they find one.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew's mouth is watering when he reaches for his fanny pack, and this is the first time that Drew realizes that his fanny pack is no longer around his waist. Drew's fanny pack that has not just his phone, but his wallet. Drew doesn't go out with his passport, so that's still back at the hostel. But his plane ticket is on his phone. And without his wallet, he can't pay for anything.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Not only did we try to rob you, but we don't even want what you have.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew is drunk enough that he's not panicking at this moment yet. He hobbles back to the jazz bar, but the fanny pack isn't there and no one has seen it. Drew goes from the jazz bar back to the karaoke bar. Still nothing. And at this point, the Canadians have thankfully lived up to their reputation, and they've been very kind. They've helped Drew go from bar to bar.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And at this point, they're like, listen, we'll cover you for the rest of the night, and you can use our phones tomorrow to sweat your shit out. We can at least get your plane ticket. We can print it out.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah. So Drew's like, thank you so much. I appreciate it. And the Canadians are like, you want to go to another bar?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah. I feel like you would have gone home like two bars ago.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, at this point, Drew's like... What else could go wrong? My leg is fucked up. My phone and wallet are gone. I have an Australian who is stalking me. So like, fuck it.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So Drew and the Canadians, they find another bar. The Canadians stay true to their word and they cover Drew's tab and they're not stingy either. So everyone's feeling real good. And Drew's almost forgotten about his lost fanny pack.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
At what point do coincidences count as stalking?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
At this point, you and Drew are now on the same wavelength because Drew's like, I'm done with this shit. Yeah. And he finally just tells the Canadians what's going on. He's like, you see that guy over there who looks like really Australian?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
He told me he loved me 24 hours after we met.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
As you should. I'm Mike White. And then Drew's like, I can't deal with this right now. Can we just leave? And the Canadians are rational people. And they're like, yeah. Yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Let's get out of here. Uh-huh. And they hustle Drew out of the bar before Oliver even gets a drink.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So Drew's leg is hurting pretty badly at this point.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
But he also wants to see the ocean one more time before he leaves.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
What's a better place for an open wound than a place with sand?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I will say it's a beautiful night. There's like a crescent moon in the sky.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I don't need to see them. I don't need to see it.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah, so they've just sat down on the beach when Drew sees someone sitting on a bench in the distance.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Oh, my God. Do you tell Oliver to go stop stalking you?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And Drew continues straying because he's like, I'm drunk. I'm in pain. I've been robbed. The sanctity of karaoke has been taken from me. And I am sick of this boyfriend energy curse. Drew's like, fuck this. I'm going to go tell him off.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So Drew makes his way up the beach very slowly because, again, he's drunk and in pain.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And in fact, Drew's going slowly enough that he has a chance to realize that the person on the bench is not Oliver.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Oh no! Drew stops and he's like, fuck, that could have been a disaster.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And he's about to turn around to return to the Canadians when he hears like a really familiar sound. Again, Drew's drunk, so he can't quite place the sound. So he just kind of looks really closely at the man on the bench who is sitting next to a jacket that looks to be draped over something. Drew's like, am I plastered or is that guy sitting suspiciously?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew's like, who the fuck sits crisscross applesauce on a bench at three in the morning?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Just as he's having this thought, the jacket makes that familiar sound again and Drew is finally like, oh, it's the DM notification sound from the Hostel World app. The real villain is the Hostel app.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew is suddenly possessed by that sort of like blinding conviction that only really, really drunk people have. Like he literally told us in his email, I don't know how I thought this in my drunk brain, but I thought my bag is under that jacket.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
They're just trying to help. Yeah. So the DM notification sound comes again. And Drew just doesn't think. He grabs the jacket.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Does not know. A complete stranger. He just grabs the jacket with that drunken conviction. But there, lying on the bench, is his fanny pack. What? What?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew does not have time to think about that. He throws the jacket in the face of a guy who looks just as shocked as Drew does.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
He grabs his fanny pack and then he runs as fast as he possibly can. What? Which is not very fast because his leg is fucked up. But the Canadians who have done nothing wrong and everything right have already come to look for him. So they meet him halfway down the beach and they're like, where did you go? What just happened? Who is that guy?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And Drew's like, I just experienced a miracle is what happened.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And that's the normal gossip promise is an unanswered question. What a ride. So Drew tells the Canadians what happened and they're like, wait, so who was DMing you so much? Like what was going on? And Drew's like, oh my God, I was so caught up in the moment. I haven't even checked my inbox.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
He opens the Hostel World app, opens his inbox, and is greeted by a series of increasingly drunken messages from none other than Oliver that are all like, Hey, babe. Beach tonight, my love.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I mean, in a way, Oliver was Drew's miracle.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Drew has incredible luck in a way that astonished me when I read this email, I must say.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, the next morning, Drew runs into Oliver at breakfast.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well. Oh, my God. Drew's grateful enough to have his phone back that he tells Oliver the whole story. And Oliver is shocked.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And then he's like, sounds like I should keep blowing your phone up.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And that's basically the end of our story. Do you block Oliver on Instagram when he inevitably sends you a follow request after this?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Just an army of red flags. An army of red flags. A United Nations of red flags.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yes. Drew made it home okay. He did not have gangrene.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Oh, Drew. We'll pass it along. Please do. That'll be the first time that's happened. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normalgossip. You can follow me on all social media at heydenae, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sarah Spragley-Rix and Jay Tolviera. Thank you to Samantha Gacic, our audio engineer. And thank you to Danielle Hewitt for your additional production help this season.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Dujon-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's business guys. Alex Dujon-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah, I imagine. I feel like you're getting a new view on her that you didn't have before, like a new perspective, like a piece of a puzzle is being filled.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Thank you to Catherine Chu, Brandi Jensen, Louise Pérez-Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for all your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
And remember, you didn't hear this from me.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I know it's messy, but I love that kind of gossip. Give it to me.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to episode seven, y'all. We've only got three more episodes of season eight after this week, if you can believe it.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
yeah not quite didn't exist oh my god okay iconic line from your mother iconic obsessed yeah I feel like one of the things that happens as you get older is that you start seeing your parents as people rather than just your parents and you realize that they were fully formed humans before you even showed up before you existed and that they had whole lives that don't include you and it's like oh that's wild I don't know how I feel about that oh yeah
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
My mother said, I'm sorry you weren't here because Father Sager was here visiting and he found a very nice orphanage for you. And I said, but I'm not an orphan.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
But then for that process to continue with like, your mom's gone, but you're still learning about her. Oh, yeah. It's incredible. That's so beautiful. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
But have no fear, if you want more Normal Gossip in your life, then I have got some incredibly exciting news. This September, Ciara and I are bringing Normal Gossip to nine different cities. We are stopping in New York. Boston, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Denver, Dallas, Austin, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Tickets went on sale to the public on Friday, May 9th.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I love that. Wow, Sam. That was a gorgeous piece of gossip.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Also, the phrase dead mom gossip is a book title. There you go.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
By Sam Sanders. I want to buy it. I'm buying it right now at bookshop.org. Yes. Sam, that was a beautiful piece of gossip. Maybe one of the most beautiful. Aw, thank you. Now I have some for you.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
To Regina Sanders. Today, our friend of a friend is named Drew. And Drew is in his mid-30s. He's British. And he's... Let me tell you something.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Well, Drew has just finished his third year of teaching literature at a university at the UK, and he is setting out on his annual vacation. Sam, do you know the kind of guy who's like most defining characteristic is that they love to travel? Yeah.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
It's always a mystery. Drew is one of those kinds of guys. Part of the reason he'd actually ended up in academia was because he loved that they had, you know, mandated breaks in a school year. And he could travel. Exactly. I'm going to be honest. I'm a girl who won't travel unless it's in comfort.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I will not be sharing a bathroom with strangers.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah. What this means for me is that I don't travel a lot because the way I travel is very expensive and I would rather have an oat vanilla latte whenever I'm sad. I get that. I get that. Drew is not like this. He will forego a little treat so that he can spend at least three months a year traveling.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So that means if you are listening right now and live in any of those cities, you can go buy a ticket immediately at normalgossiplive.com. Every show has exclusive VIP tickets that include a meet and greet with Sierra and I, so I hope you're all planning what delicious little morsels of gossip you're going to be bringing us. That is all the housekeeping for today's show. Now, on to the gossip.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah, we're on the same page. Unfortunately, our friend of a friend, Drew, is not. He, despite being in his 30s, loves staying in hostels. Partially because they're cheap, but also Drew feels like it's the easiest way to meet interesting people when solo traveling, which he does a lot of.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Yeah. I've stayed in a hostel exactly once, I have to admit, in London for two nights. And I said, never again. I was 19. I was like, I'm good. Not Drew. Not Drew.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
For this year's vacation, he is backpacking through South and Central America for two whole months and staying in hostels the entire time. Wow. First, he's going to Havana, then to Mexico City, before ending his trip in Cartagena.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
In two months, Drew found his hostels through his absolute favorite app, the Hostel World app. This is a real app, by the way. It has a 4.9 rating on the Apple Store, Sam, which surprised me. I don't know why.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Not only can you find and book hostels through the Hostel World app, you can also connect with other Hostel World users nearby and meet up for excursions and even DM people.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
Same. Same. But it appeals to Drew because his motto for this trip is basically do it for the plot.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So I am not like a do it for the plot ass bitch. Like I love a five year plan.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
The plot is me living in comfort. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. So one more important thing to know about Drew, besides the fact that he is a do-it-for-the-plot-ass bitch, is that our friend of a friend has what I call boyfriend energy.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So flirting comes as naturally to Drew as breathing. He holds really good eye contact. When he's talking to you, it feels like you're the only person in the room. He knows how to ask follow-up questions. Like when he makes you laugh, he like touches your arm a little bit.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I was going to ask, have you encountered boyfriend energy in the wild? But it sounds like I'm asking, have you met Bill Clinton?
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
I will say one of my best friends, who is not Bill Clinton, has boyfriend energy. Luckily, this friend has a boyfriend himself now, but when he was single, it was actually really wild to witness. People would just fall in love with him. To a point where I would be mad because people weren't falling in love with me.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
But at times, it really did start to seem like a really big hassle because he would be trying to have a chill fling. And then three or four dates in, he's getting questions about commitment and attachment styles.
Normal Gossip
A United Nations of Red Flags with Sam Sanders
So this is Drew's plate. And it's a plate if you don't want to be a boyfriend. But if I learned anything by staying at a hostel for two days in London is that hostels are a perfect place to not find a boyfriend. Yeah. So Drew is setting off on his vacation for a peace of mind. Mexico City and Havana are both incredible.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yeah. Make sure your alarm's on. And she's like, all right, well, fuck the police. She doesn't get that far. But this is kind of an ACAB movie.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
You're so right. I actually did forget about the fact that my man has giant cakes.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And it's like, you can tell where we're going. It's gonna be flirty at one point. I do appreciate that it was clearly enemies at first. There was not a single hint of sexual tension at first. It was just like, this is a ghost made into a man who is trying to get me out of this inn. And I...
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yes, the innkeeper comes back. She calls the innkeeper. Yes. Kate calls the innkeeper and is like, yo, what the fuck is going on? Who is this man? And the innkeeper who has been keeping the inn for, it seems like his entire life. Yeah. Like it's giving Sam and Frodo. Yes. But so the innkeeper comes back and it's just like, yeah, so this is why I told you to leave.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
He becomes corporal every 12 days of Christmas for 12 days. And when he comes back, his senses are heightened. So all he wants to do is eat food. And I was like, does he want to fuck? Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I was gonna say, there's so many kinds of eating that could be done when your senses are heightened.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
But he just wants an apple at this point in time.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Correct. But you're right. This is giving like made for women porn. So there's an opportunity out there for someone.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Hi, Rachel Hampton here. If you missed last week's episode of Normal Gossip, please go back and listen because, spoiler alert, I have been crowned America's Next Top Gossip Queen. I wanted to say a very, very heartfelt thank you to all the listeners who have been so generous and so excited about the next phase of this show that we all love so much.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
So we kind of have a sense of what's going on. And Kate is like, okay, I need to sell this house. Yes. I can't sell this house with this man in here. But also, why are you here? Why do you keep coming back? Why are you only here for 12 days out of the year? She's just asking questions. She's just asking questions. And the ghost, Daniel, is like, I don't ask these questions.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I just want to live my peaceful 12 days and eat as many apples as possible. Yeah. He's on vacation, baby. He's like, this is not my problem. This is your problem. And she's like, well, I need to do my job and get the fuck out of here. So I'm going to go investigation mode and we're going to figure out why the fuck you're still here. And then we're going to get you to the other side. Yes.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
As in heaven or hell. Or hell. Somewhere. Purgatory. I mean, he's in purgatory.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yes, yes, yes. I appreciated how much of a star turn that prohibition plays in this story. Yeah. It's really all about how bad prohibition was.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Listen, Kelsey, one of my all-time favorite fan fictions takes place in Prohibition, and it's a supernatural fan fiction. God. And Jensen Ackles is obviously a rum runner. Obviously. And I'm like, oh, that's hot. Crimes for alcohol?
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Upcharging rich people for alcohol? Good. Congrats, babe. We love you. So Daniel, at this point, I'm like, even though you're a white man with a fash haircut, I'm on your side. Yeah. But also, I'm like, do you want to be resolved? Do you want to keep coming back here year after year? Do you wish to go on to the beyond? It seems like he's kind of tired of this shit, which makes sense.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
We here at the Normal Gossip Team really appreciate it. So much so that we thought maybe y'all might like to have a little holiday bonus episode as a treat. Before we get to your present, though, I just wanted to say that I am so, so, so, so, so excited to start working on season eight of Normal Gossip, which will come out this spring. But I need your help. We are looking for gossip.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
It really doesn't. Because all we care about is what Kate wants, which is to sell the motherfucking inn. Yes.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
So, our girl goes detective mode. She's researching, Googling, presumably, going to the library, I think, at some point. Like, there's some real, I'm looking at microfiche stuff.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Okay, wait, yeah, let's rewind. Let's rewind because there's like, there's a side plot where apparently no one has ever seen Daniel The ghost, other than the innkeeper, who doesn't really hang out with him. So he's just left alone for 12 days. To eat apples. But then the water goes out in town or some shit. And a local owner of a bar comes by and is like, you guys have a bar at the hotel.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Let me have my party here. Exactly. And Daniel's like, no one's allowed here. Fuck you. And the bartender lady, who also seems to have a little bit of a flirtationship with the innkeeper... Big time. ...is just like, who is that? And Kate's like, he's like a cousin of the family or whatever. He's just like a little, he's a little extra. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And then the bartender's lady is like, I make the best cocktail in town. And Daniel's like, I bet you fucking don't. And the thing is, Daniel clearly is using egg whites in his whiskey sour. He's making some real drinks. He's a rum runner. He clearly knows his alcohol.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Whatever, babe. Sure. Whatever you fucking need, my guy. And so this turns into like a party at the inn. And I guess Daniel is reminded that being around people is good. Yes. And Kate is also figuring out that Daniel is hot. There's this scene where she's wandering around the house and stumbles upon him taking his shirt off.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
But I also was like, who? And at this moment, I was like, this is a porn. This is leading to a very clear resolution.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
It's like, oh, this is a man from the 1920s. He's not used to women being able to drive. He's not used to women having rights. He's just really confused as to why this woman is allowed to be a barrister. Yeah. And... It is like every single romance novel where you're like, why is this man so possessive and angry? And then you're like, oh, like, I don't know. It's his culture.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
He watched his brother get shot or some shit. Like, he has trauma. It's his culture. Yeah. Yeah. So we find out that it is, in fact, Daniel's culture to be a little bit domineering. But it's okay because Kate... Well, Kate kind of likes it. She likes it. She likes it.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Which, I'm going to be honest, if a tall, beefy man who was caked up like that... Picked you up over his shoulder and carried you outside... I'm also like, is he misogynist? Because he seems to really value Kate as a human being, which is more than some men in 2024.
Normal Gossip
Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
You can email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail on our hotline at 2679-GOSSIP. Some gossip that I am dying to receive, real estate gossip, gossip that is secretly a romance novel, service industry gossip, and fandom gossip, but truly anything you have that you think might be a fit, please send it over. If you have ever in your life thought,
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
He just needs new information and he'll be a different man.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And his brother, which we see through flashbacks, is very disapproving of his rum running. And not hot. Not hot at all. Like, they do not look like brothers. No. I mean, they do, but in that way where you're just like, oh, that's unfortunate. Yeah. So the brother's very clearly a villain.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And importantly, the brother, we realize through these flashbacks, is the person that Daniel saw on the veranda with his fiance right before he got hit over the head. Which is an alibi. So true. It is an alibi. So we are pretty sure that he is not killed by his brother to get with his fiance. Yes, Lily. To be with Lily. Yes.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
So at this point in the movie, it's like, it's a lovely night and they're bartending and the bartender from town is like, what if we had our annual town Christmas party here? And Kate's like, there's no way that'll happen. And Daniel's like, let's fucking go! He got a taste of partying, and he's like, oh yeah, I miss this.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Now that I've had three of the strongest cocktails any of you have ever had in your entire life because I'm mixing fucking Prohibition-era cocktails. Like, those are Great Depression cocktails. Yes. Like, times were hard.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Here you go, babe. People were literally drinking shit that would kill them because it had minor amounts of alcohol in it because of prohibition, which I learned from the book Water for Elephants, which I read many times as a child.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Maybe. I mean, I love clear stakes. And prohibition is really, the stakes are so clear. They are really clear. It's like, here is an illicit substance that everyone wants that was previously legal. Like, it's so rare to go backwards in such a strong way on a substance like that, where it's like, you have an entire society. Exactly.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Could you imagine if tomorrow the government was like, actually alcohol is banned? Yeah.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Maybe the story might work for normal gossip. Send it, please. I will work with you on anonymization. And if it turns out to be too hard to anonymize, well, I still want to read it. Okay, now for your present. As many of y'all know, we put out an extra episode for our subscribers once a month. For December's episode, we tried something just a little bit different.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Imagine giving this ghost a vape. Like that would be a scene in 2024. This movie was made in 2024.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And he's like, what is that? What is that? Imagine, I mean, they had weed back then, but it was weak as fuck, so.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
He'd be out there in the snow doing snow angels. Yeah. High off his ass.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I made Kelsey watch the 2015 Lifetime original movie, The Spirit of Christmas. And we just gabbed about it for an hour. As literally anyone in my life will tell you, I'm obsessed with this movie. And I think it might haunt Kelsey forever. What more could you want? Happy holidays.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
But... Yeah. He sleeps in her room, like, facing away from her. Yes. And she's like, I feel so safe and protected. And I'm like... Now... Kiss. Kiss.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
But they don't kiss. They don't. But there's this open mystery of, like, what else is in the house? Because at first... She thinks that it's him. Like something gets knocked off a wall or like she, a door gets closed really loud. Like something scary happens and she thinks that Daniel's fucking with her because they had just had this big fight. And he's like, no.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
He's like, I wouldn't do that to you. I would never do that to you. And she's like, wow. Am I starting to have feelings for this ghost that's only around 12 days out of the year?
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And you have to compromise so much. And despite the fact that I love romance novels and I love romance, as I get older and also busier, I'm just like, I actually don't know if I want or have the time for all of that right now. Yes. So a boo who just shows up once a year. That sounds perfect.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Like he is only for you. It's beautiful. So I could see Miss Girl being like, Honestly, maybe I'll start taking off Christmas because there's a plot line that she never takes off Christmas because she doesn't give a fuck about holidays or her family.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And you know what? Correct. Having jobs does make women miserable.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Question mark, question mark, question mark.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yeah. And her boss is also mad because Kate is very clearly the closer of this company. And they're like, why haven't you sold this fucking inn? Why haven't you figured this out?
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Oh, oh, she's there to get the inn appraised so they can sell it. But they can't get the appraiser in because Daniel keeps fucking shit up. Which is funny. It's really funny. And they're like, why haven't you gotten the inner praise? And Kate can't be like, well, there's a ghost that I'm thinking about fucking. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't usually go over well with your boss. No, it doesn't.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
It might here, but not then. Yeah. I think I could tell Justin that I was busy because I was thinking about fucking a ghost. You probably could. And it would probably be okay. Yeah. He would be like, we'll talk about that later. No, he'd be like, well, um, I'm concerned for you, but as long as the ghost isn't evil, we'll talk later. Yeah.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yeah. She goes back. And this is the moment where, like, when she leaves, she promises to come back. And Daniel very clearly is like, I hope you do. Yes. And then when she comes back, I'm like, oh, something has changed here. They are... into falling in love territory. Mm-hmm. Yes.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
When you can tell they've been running around at recess and have maybe redone their ponytail that you gave them at the beginning of the day. Like, it looks so bad.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I would say it does, yeah, less than nothing. It's negative. It is a net negative hairstyle.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
It's so bad. And it's like, this is the most romantic scene in the movie because it's a Christmas party. Daniel and Kate are dancing. The innkeeper and the bartender are dancing. Like, the innkeeper and Daniel are talking about Kate. And he's like, I think I really like her. And you look at her and she's wearing this stupid ponytail. And you're like, motherfucker. Yeah.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I'm like, you probably look like a little girl to him. Like, stop this. Stop it. Yeah. So that was terrible. But it is a cute scene. You can see that they're really starting to feel each other and thinking about the logistics of making this work. Because they haven't figured out what exactly happened yet. Like, all Daniel knows is that his fiancée maybe betrayed him. Maybe.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Clearly, no one was paying attention here. They were like, well, whatever she needs to find out. So we're going to make this easy for her. Yeah, of course. So Daniel's like, do I want to go into the great beyond to be with Lily, my fiance, or do I want to be with Kate? And this becomes the central tension where Kate is like, I want you to be happy, but also I want you to stay with me.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And then spooky shit starts happening at the party. Spooky. This is the spookiest scene. Yeah.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Exactly. And there's a confrontation between the ghost of Lily, the ghost of the cousin, and Daniel, who is also ghost. And also Kate, who's not ghost.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
This movie has been in my life for at least the past four years, minimum, possibly more than that. What I think happened is, do you remember back around like 2017 when BuzzFeed would do big lists of like the craziest Christmas movies you should watch? Oh, yeah, yeah. I think this was on there. And I think that at the time, this movie was on Netflix. And so I was like, okay, cool.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yeah, I think the gift is that she is protecting him from his cousin who we find out killed him because the guy that Daniel was running rum for in Canada is just like evil.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
If you think about it, it's ACAB all the way down. It sure is. I'm not entirely sure what Lily's gift is. I think him being stuck in this purgatory is somehow her gift to him. Like, she saved him somehow.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I don't really get it either. All I know is that, like... Daniel and his cousin have a conversation and his cousin is like, thank you for forgiving me. Yeah, and then he disappears. And so he's released from the purgatory and then Lily is like, okay, deuces. And Daniel has to make a choice as to whether or not he is released from purgatory. And him and Kate spend, like, a night together.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Do you think they fucked? They don't fuck.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And they're going to disappear in two hours.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
You don't have an opportunity for another year. You also don't know if he's going to come back next year because his storyline has been resolved. So Kate wakes up the next morning. And funnily enough, Daniel's not there. But also she receives a call from her boss who's like, you know what? I have been underappreciating you. You do deserve vacation. It's insane.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I'm so sorry that I yelled at you about closing the inn. This has never happened. It's never happened, but I also was like, you know what? I'm glad that they know your worth now because you stopped working for, what, three days? The real moral of this story is to take your vacation days so that your work will appreciate you. Actually, yes, it is.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Take your vacation days so your work realizes how much work you're doing. So she takes her vacation days and she's like, okay, great. I'm going to get promoted to, again, what, partner? I don't fucking know. I don't fucking know. But she's also like, she walks outside. It's a beautiful snowy day. And she's like, Daniel's gone. I miss him. I guess I'll come back next year to see if he comes back.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Because again, we don't know. We don't know. We have no idea. But then... And something we haven't mentioned yet is that a lot of this movie relies on the concept of property lines for some reason. Like, Daniel can't leave the property. Every single time he tries to leave, he, like... Disappears and gets ported back in.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Why does the ghost respect property lines? Also, what happens if the house gets rezoned? None of this makes any sense to me. What are the laws of ghosts? None of it makes any sense. But we do know that the laws are broken and that Daniel is free because as Kate walks out into this beautiful snowy morning, who comes walking from the forest past the property line where he previously could not go?
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I don't have to buy anything. I'll watch this movie. And then I watched it with my roommate at the time. And I was immediately obsessed. And then every single year, I brought this movie up to other friends being like, have you seen The Spirit of Christmas? And they're obviously like, no. What the fuck is that?
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
But Daniel made... like fully human in 2015.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
He's also wearing a stupid hat. It looks so bad. This is like, he looks the worst in the scene. And I don't know why they did this to him. It makes no sense. He has been caked up and hot the entire time. And now suddenly he's wearing a stupid hat. I guess he saw her fuck ass ponytail and was like, you know what? Vibes match. He was like, this is a safe space.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
He's like, I found someone to match my freak. Yeah.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
His ears are cold. Yeah, he's finally, I guess, feeling the cold. I don't know. So he's wearing this stupid hat and they run together and they get together. And from here, I have a lot of questions. And I think that's why I love this movie so much. I have so many questions. It's because it just, it ends and you're like, okay. So does he have a social security number now?
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
How do you turn somebody who has been dead since like the early 1900s into a fully legal resident of the United States? Like she's a lawyer, so I'm sure she has some method. Will he age? Is he just this age forever? Does he have any skills? Clearly he can go across property lines. I guess he could be a bartender. I guess they're just going to run the inn.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Also, how are you going to explain where this man came from? To the people in your life.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yes. And so this is the point of the movie where I'm like, I would watch a sequel. I would watch at least a 30 minute epilogue of what happens of introducing Daniel to the real world of 2015. Because I... I am just like, I want to see him go to the DMV. I want to see him learn how to drive. I want to see him try a Cheeto. I want to see him try Sriracha.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Like, I want to see him take a 10 milligram edible. I have so many questions. Does he know what skinny girl liquor is? Like, I have so many questions.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I want to show him the Real Housewives of New York. Like, I want to show him the Titanic film.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
So it has become an annual tradition where every single year, I force at least one of my friends to watch this movie with me. And this year, it's me.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
No, literally. I'm like, what happens when this man sees a Black person? Yeah, bad. Like, can you imagine being like, okay, so there's this man named Martin Luther King. He had a dream. This is important for you to know. Yeah.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Now there's a Black president. And the thing is, this movie came out in 2015. Oh, yeah, there was a Black president.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Like, the president is black. And then you immediately go into Trump after this? Like, I'm just like, what? Tell me about their life afterwards.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I don't know. I'm like, does this work on Twilight Rules where, like, some random shit happens and suddenly you're allowed to have a baby? Like... Does she even want children?
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Maybe she doesn't. Maybe the N is their child. Also, they never fuck. Not even once. I know. I know. It's so funny because I described this movie as a movie where a woman fucks a ghost, but she actually doesn't fuck him once. But spiritually, she does.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
It's a really chaste movie, but somehow the vibe of it being the prelude to a porn movie really makes it feel far more... Yeah. I'm like, nothing happens, but like...
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I'm like, I'm gonna be honest. That man has not felt the touch of a woman in a hundred years, and you're telling me he's not bricked the fuck up right now?
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And they were like, okay, she's going to take a nap and then we'll come back to this at a later date.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I am so happy that I have gotten to take my personal mission of making as many people as possible watch this movie and somehow broaden that mission even further. It's beautiful. And I'm glad that you're achieving your dreams. Thanks so much. I'm gonna fuck a ghost. Hell yeah.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Thank you so much for listening to this extra special bonus episode of Normal Gossip. If you do want to subscribe, you can do that at supportnormalgossip.com. If you are already a subscriber, please keep your eyes open. We are sending you an email to get feedback on what you might like to see in this feed in the future. More insanity? More caked up ghosts? Tell us!
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
This podcast was hosted by me, Rachel Hampton. It was produced by Sierra Spragley-Rix and J. Tolviera. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Sujong-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defector's project editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's business guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Leigh is our editor-in-chief.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. And thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively-owned, subscriber-based media company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm Rachel Hampton, and remember, you did not hear this from me.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And the thing is, both of those are annual traditions for me. I reread Giovanni's Room every single year around this time. And I also watch this movie every single year. So you're really hitting the Rachel Hampton annual tradition.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Beautiful. I really want to hear your thoughts, but I feel like we should do a brief recap of what happens in this movie.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
This is a recap pod now. So we open. Let's start with that opening scene. Yes. All right. So it's snowy. It's clearly like what fucking Michigan or something. I don't know.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And he also has that haircut that now is a little fashy, but in 2015 was the hipster haircut. Yep. And the outfit that he's wearing... Which is like this vest with a little shirt under it and boots is giving Williamsburg hipster. Yeah. Like, so it's really confusing as to where we are in time. But I'm buckled the fuck in.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
It is. It really, it keeps you guessing. It keeps the girlies on their feet. And speaking of girlies, we have to talk about our main girlie of this movie, whose name is Kate. Kate. Kate. And Kate, Kate's a lawyer. And lawyering is her entire life. Yeah. In the first scene where we're introduced to her. This scene rules, to be honest. I love this scene. It's such a good scene. She's at dinner.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
She's talking to this guy. And he's like, you know, you're really great. You're so ambitious. But like, I just feel like something's missing. And she's like, yeah. Yeah. So true. Everyone I date knows nothing about me. My ex called me his ghost girl. And then at the end, she's like, can I have your dessert? And she takes this creme brulee and she's like, yeah, I didn't want to be here anyways.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yeah. So she drives her Jeep Cherokee out to this huge house and it's beautiful. Also, this movie is supposed to take place like somewhere in snowy United States.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Same. Speaking of James Baldwin, I have been reading Another Country. We've both been reading Another Country. And there's a scene that takes place right around near Thanksgiving. And the character is thinking about, oh, it's snowing again. It's all on the ground. It's cold. It's cold. And they're like, we're leading up to Thanksgiving. And I read that and just like...
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
had one of those Raven Baxter moments where I was just like, oh, fuck, it used to snow before Thanksgiving. But in the mythical land of 2015, New Hampshire, Vermont, wherever the fuck we are, it's snowing. It's snowing hard.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Unclear. Unclear. But she arrives at this inn and the innkeeper, whose name is escaping me at the moment, but does end up becoming kind of an important tertiary character at some point. Yeah. But the innkeeper is like, oh, I'm leaving. And asks her, where are you staying while you're figuring out where to sell the inn? And Kate's like, it's an inn. I'm staying here.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yes. They are never open during the 12 days of Christmas, which do I know when those start? I'm assuming it's 12 days before Christmas, but does it include the day after Christmas? I don't fucking know. Partridge in a pear tree? Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. But he's like, we're never open during the 12 days of Christmas, so no one can stay here. And Kate's like, I'm a hardened lawyer from the city.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
I'm fucking staying here. And he's like, there's a ghost. I wouldn't recommend staying here. And she's like, fuck your ghost. Rachel. Yes.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Yeah, I think we were both raised too Christian to not believe in ghosts and demons. I'm just like, you know what? I wish not to fuck with it. I don't want it near me. Don't bring it near me. I have a respectful distance. It's like the ocean. I respect her. I don't want to be near her. I will watch from a distance. So I would also not stay in a haunted hotel. But Kate does not believe in ghosts.
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
And she is too logical and too lawyerly to believe in ghosts. So she stays at this inn overnight. And surprise, surprise...
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Holiday Bonus: Caked Up Spirit of Christmas
Oh, being trapped in a random house in New Hampshire, Vermont, Michigan, with a white man from the 1920s who's absolutely huge. With a fash haircut? No. With a fash haircut? No, exactly. Exactly. And the thing is, Kate does respond correctly to this in that she immediately calls the police. And she's like, there's a strange man. And she has a weird knife. Yeah, where did that come from?
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So Kennedy also hadn't had any real dreams of being a firefighter when she grew up. She's not a real adrenaline junkie. One of her least favorite things about living on the island is knowing that if she ever needs to be medically evacuated, it'll have to be in one of those tiny island hopper airplanes, which she refers to as a flying tin can. Oh, shit.
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So when Clara, the chief of the fire department at the time, approached Kennedy about joining the fire department, Kennedy's first question was, do I have to drive the fire truck? And Clara laughed and then said, only if you want to be chief, which is great because Kennedy does not want to be chief, especially because Clara is such a great chief. Clara had single-handedly recruited...
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
half of the firefighting department through just raw charisma. Clara's like 5'2", but she can squat 330 pounds.
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
She's covered in beautiful botanical tattoos, all native to Washington state, of course. Hot. What kind of skills do you think a volunteer fire chief on a small island might need? And would you want this job?
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Clara has all of those skills that you mentioned. Clara, charismatic. Clara, such a direct communicator. She knows how to praise early and often, but also knows how to give proper feedback. And one important thing to know about Clara is that she recently got engaged, the love of her life. The whole fire department is all like, Clara, Clara, Clara, Clara.
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Kennedy is also over the moon because she loves Clara and Kennedy also loves love. But Kennedy's also a little nervous because Clara is stepping down to plan her wedding. Very fair. I've never planned a wedding before, but I've heard it's a lot of work.
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Clara's like, I'm not planning a wedding and volunteer fire chiefing. I just got to do one of these things. I'm going to focus on my personal life. And so when Clara steps down, she appointed Grace Williams as her successor. Technically, Kennedy, who is assistant chief, was up for the job. But four years of the fire department have made Kennedy no less afraid of driving the fire truck.
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It's too big and unwieldy and loud. Kennedy won't even drive a U-Haul. She's not doing that. Meanwhile, Grace loved driving the fire truck, and she's a great firefighter insofar as anyone is on this island, because it's so small, almost none of the job really entailed fighting fires.
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Oh my God, we're here. We're on the podium. We're going to distribute some medals. I guess this is the post-game interview because I need to know, what's your relationship to gossip? I love it.
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But Grace is very organized and also very young, which means she both has a lot of energy and no kids, while Kennedy has a preschooler at this point. When Grace joined the fire department, she started doing a lot of extra projects for the crew, like... reorganizing the storage closet so that it's usable and not a fire hazard. So all of that is why Claire tapped her to become the chief.
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But why Grace is confirmed as chief through a majority vote is because all of those reasons and because Grace is a Williams. And according to our friend of a friend who said, I quote, I included her last name because the Williams family is sort of a big deal, at least according to the Williams family. First of all, there are a lot of them.
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Most of them stayed on the island and had several children, each of whom have stayed on the island and had several children, some of whom are still on the island. They have their own special seats in a corner of the stadium at football games. They're like a little mafia.
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Now. And the Williams have been some of the first settlers on this island. So they're both incredibly important to the island's founding and also incredibly infamous for some of their ancestors, um... Misadventures?
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One of the reasons the fire department is so respected on this island is because way back in 1923, Grace's great-grandmother Eunice Williams, her barn had burned down in what became the biggest fire in island history.
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It had taken more than two hours to wrangle a crew together, and by then the fire had spread, eventually engulfing downtown. It's now very easy to tell architecturally what was built on the island pre- and post-fire. This fire looms so large in the collective imagination that it basically becomes *** Island's version of 9-11. Oh my god.
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Have you ever lived somewhere like a town or a campus where everyone was sort of haunted by this event that happened a long time ago, but it's up there in the brain?
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Yeah. So similarly, Kennedy heard about this fire within two weeks of moving there. It is just this kind of stain on the collective imagination. And her first thought was, how are the Williams still so prominent after this if they caused this big fire? Isn't the mayor a Williams? What's going on here?
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In the aftermath of Eunice's bonfire, the Williams family quietly paid for half of the construction that had to be done in town because they wanted to preserve their reputation. It also helped that at any given moment, half of the population is somehow married or related to a Williams, if not a Williams themselves.
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The same is true of the fire department, as in half of it is somehow married, related to, or Williams himself, which meant no one was really surprised when Grace was confirmed as chief.
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Wow. Okay. After high school, Grace went to a good college, but she graduated right into the 2008 recession. So that was when she moved back to the island and started working for her dad, Elijah, who manages a little collection of vacation rentals on the island that are notoriously shitty. Oh, no.
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Tourists are always complaining about leaks and exposed wiring, but the island's code enforcement officer is married to a William, so nothing really ever gets done. I'm sensing a pattern. I'm sensing a pattern. Keep that pattern in your mind. Oh my goodness. Okay. All this to say, Grace's appointment to fire chief makes Kennedy just a little bit nervous.
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Sure, Grace is competent, but if 10 years on this island have taught Kennedy anything, it's to be prepared for everything, especially when a Williams is involved.
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
How are you feeling so far? Do you have any immediate concerns? Your boss is about to be a 24-year-old.
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Well, the thing is, at first things honestly go just fine under Grace's leadership. They're maybe even good. Oh. Like, everything is very organized. A bunch of physical paperwork and records that had been sitting around since the late 90s was finally digitized. Another fire hazard removed from the fire department.
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Yeah. Grace signs herself and Kennedy up to be CPR instructors for the first responder course that all the emergency services volunteers go through. Does Kennedy necessarily have time for this with a preschooler at home? Who's to say? But it's a worthwhile endeavor, so Kennedy is mostly fine with it.
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What Kennedy isn't fine with is the way her duties as assistant chief slowly start getting eroded. The first thing to go is Kennedy's responsibility to order inventory, which she's been doing since she was named assistant chief two years ago. But Grace's reasoning for taking over inventory ordering made sense. Sort of.
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Grace thought that since the budget was ultimately the chief's responsibility, it made sense for her to have discretion over how the funds were allocated. What do you think of this rationale?
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Kennedy is not sure how she feels because ordering inventory did take up a lot of her time, which you notice. She's busy. But the thing is, Kennedy didn't really mind. Kennedy is one of those people who's just like an absolute slut for paperwork. She loved to send a little email. She loved renewing the fire department license.
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She actually really only joined leadership because Clara had needed a hand with the admin work. And ordering inventory was one of Kennedy's favorite tasks. She got to listen to a little podcast and shop on someone else's dime. And this is why Kennedy kind of starts to get that feeling in her chest.
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You know, you get when you feel like something might be starting to go wrong, but everyone else thought Grace's rationale was just fine. So Kennedy's like, maybe I'm just overreacting. And, you know, somehow Grace seems to have found some room in the budget because right after she takes over ordering inventory, some fancy new snacks start appearing in the firehouse.
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I'm so glad you asked. We're talking Spindrift. We're talking Himalayan sea salt popcorn. We're talking goji berries and things labeled cacao instead of chocolate.
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
Kennedy is not exactly complaining because who doesn't love a fancy snack? I mean. She's like, ah, how bad could it be? But that feeling in her chest returns when she's suddenly taken off scheduling, which she's also been responsible for for the past two years. If ordering inventory was one of Kennedy's favorite jobs, scheduling was her absolute favorite.
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She had inherited this monthly scheduling tradition from the previous assistant chief, where one Sunday a month she would get the whole crew together for a big dinner at the firehouse and everyone looked forward to it. which means that morale on the crew takes a sharp drop when, without warning, Grace says that Sunday dinner isn't in the budget. Oh, because you're spending on the snacks.
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The fancy snacks do remain. Grace also has a new idea for scheduling that she wants to implement. So the shifts everyone worked used to be 48 hours. And if you're on call for your shift, that means that you have to be within 10 minutes of your car. So no hiking, which is a big deal on *** Island. It means that you can't drink any alcohol. Makes sense.
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And it also means that you need to have child care lined up in case you get called in. So if you get a call during work, then you're expected to leave. But all of that changed when Grace unilaterally changed the shifts from 48 hours long to a whole week long.
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And Grace's justification is that this new schedule allowed more people to be on call at any given moment so that they would never be understaffed for a fire. This causes a lot of grumbling. Because finding childcare on an island of 2,000 people for a 48-hour shift was hard enough, but a whole week? Jeez. It's at this point that I would personally have done a mutiny.
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But then I have to remember that half the fire department is either Williams or married to one or related to one. And they're all so proud of Grace for being chief. None so much as Grace's father, Elijah. Elijah Williams has been volunteering for the fire department for as long as Kennedy has been in town. But he has never been in contention for chief because Elijah is kind.
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Kind of the fail son of his generation of Williams. Oh, no. Which includes the island's lawyer, four out of the seven members of the island's town council, and several prominent businessmen.
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Meanwhile, if you remember, Elijah manages some shitty summer rental properties. He doesn't even own them. They belong to his father, Grace's grandfather, who plans to will them to Grace when he dies and not Elijah.
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Yeah. Elijah's one redeeming quality is that he loves his daughter more than anything else in the world. He is so, so proud of Grace, which is sweet, but... But also means whenever someone starts complaining about all the new changes that Grace is unilaterally instituting on the fire squad, Elijah will just start loudly talking about how he just always knew she'd do something great.
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And did you know she made the dean's list every semester in college?
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I agree. But despite the long arm of the Williams family, Kennedy still wouldn't live anywhere else. She loves her husband that she met on the island, one of the few locals who somehow, blessedly, is not in any way related to the Williams. They do exist. Yeah.
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Kennedy loves their adorable preschooler, even though he's going through a sleep regression right now, and Kennedy and her husband are being driven slowly insane from sleep deprivation, which is maybe why Kennedy doesn't care about anything at the fire department enough to be cheap. She just wants to avoid another Eunice Williams barn fire.
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And even though all of Grace's changes are annoying, none of them are dangerous or feel personal. Do you think our friend of a friend is being wise here? Do you think Kennedy is right in thinking there's not a lot to be done right now?
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Yeah. And Kennedy, she doesn't have any real plans for rebellion in mind until the town council meeting. Every month, she and Grace have a meeting with the town council where they give little reports and requests to increase the budget for the fire department.
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A couple days beforehand, Grace had told Kennedy that she was planning on asking for an increase to her stipend since her responsibilities had increased. Both the chief and the assistant chief get stipends because they're leaders, so they get a little bit of extra money.
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So Kennedy wasn't surprised when halfway through the town council meeting, Grace makes the case for increasing her own stipend. What Kennedy is surprised by is Grace's response when one of the councilmen asked her where the funds for her increased stipend should come from. Because Grace suggests decreasing Kennedy's stipend to make up the difference. Snake in the grass. Wow, that's a bold move.
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Kennedy's jaw drops. Even some of the Williams on the town council look shocked at Grace's brazenness. And they do that thing that people do in like polite company where they're like, that won't be necessary. In the moment, Kennedy is just seething because even though they don't decrease her stipend, they do agree to increase Grace's because we're still in a Williams world. Huge news!
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Your friend just went from so high in my ranking of other people's friends. To so low, so quickly. How do you go from the iconicness of the first rule of Boot Brothers is don't talk about Boot Brothers to I try to live without gossip. Why would you do that? Why would you deprive yourself?
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Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times best-selling book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, mostly true notes on gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun.
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A month passes in a sort of uneasy stasis, but Kennedy is on high alert, especially when the next town council meeting comes around. Grace has got a new idea. A new idea she has run by no one else in the department. Grace's new idea? The creation of a deputy chief position to be below Grace, but above Kennedy. Why? Well, because Grace's right hand needs to be able to do everything that Grace can.
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And at first, Kennedy is like, what the fuck are you talking about? And then she realized that Grace is proposing Kennedy basically be demoted because Kennedy doesn't want to drive the fire truck. And the thing is, Kennedy would actually be willing to hear that out because she will literally never drive the fire truck.
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And there are a whole host of qualified people on the crew who can drive the fire truck who will be great deputy chiefs. But guess who Grace suggests? Elijah Williams. Aye, aye, aye. The failed son of the Williams clan. Kennedy briefly wonders whether she is hallucinating. But reality reasserts itself when the town council starts seriously considering Grace's proposal.
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Luckily, the proposal ends up being vetoed for a lack of proper detail. But it's vetoed without prejudice, which means that Grace can flesh out her proposal and present it again at a later meeting. Wow. Kennedy leaves this meeting and tells everyone on the squad who wasn't a Williams and even a few Williams who happen to be cool. Everyone's in shock.
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Kennedy cannot believe how fast morale has deteriorated. Coming in for Sunday dinners with the crew used to be one of the highlights of her month. And now she just constantly prays that she never gets called in.
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And on some level, her prayer is answered because under the guise of fleshing out her deputy chief proposal, Grace makes a document outlining what firefighters and lead firefighters were allowed to do while on call. You might be asking, what separates a regular firefighter from a lead firefighter? I'm so glad you asked. Largely... It came down to whether or not you could drive the fire truck.
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Oh my gosh. What this new document meant in practice is that Grace and her father and a few other select firefighters who mostly happened to be Williams got to do the glamorous work of cutting ribbons and kissing babies, rescuing cats from trees and things of that nature.
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While the rest of the crew had to do the grunt work of scene cleanup, hauling like the heavy, heavy hoses, clearing out blackberry bush, which was endemic to the island and just a huge fire hazard. So that was a huge part of their job. How did these jobs sound to you? Which one would you rather do?
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Kissing the babies. Yeah. Around Thanksgiving, Grace imports a purebred Dalmatian for photo ops. And it somehow becomes part of the crew's responsibility to care for it because it's their mascot. Okay, this is too much.
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While the crew is running around washing the fire truck and cleaning up after the dog, Grace is posting photos with her dad, Elijah, that are captioned with my favorite firefighter.
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One day, both Kennedy and Grace are on call together and they get called out to a house fire. Let me just say so no one gets scared. This is still normal gossip. It's not normal disasters. No one's going to die. Okay. Thank God. Kennedy is expecting a little kitchen fire since that's typically what they're dealing with on the island.
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But as they round the corner, Kennedy can see these big plumes of black smoke. Oh, no. her heart drops, her adrenaline starts pumping, and it's maybe in this heightened adrenaline state that allows her to recognize that the house they're pulling up in front of is none other than the house of Grace's idiot boyfriend, Sam.
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The island was introduced to Sam a year back when he was trying to cross the channel between the island and the neighboring one on a paddleboard during a huge storm and he got stranded on a rock.
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So every single island emergency service had to be deployed in the rescue.
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So Sam now also works for Grace's father as a shitty handyman for the shitty little vacation rentals, and now he has somehow managed to start a fire.
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So the fire truck comes screeching to a halt in front of Sam's house, sirens blaring, and Kennedy can see that the main house seems fine, but there is a detached garage that backs up against the forest, and there's just smoke pouring from under the eaves of the garage.
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Kennedy looks around, waiting for Grace to leap into action. Have you ever been sent into the flight part of Fight or Flight at the absolute worst moment possible?
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But in that moment, Grace is like, someone has to do something. And Kennedy's like, Grace, you have to do something. What? And the crew is like, based on your detailed flow chart, we are not allowed to do something until you tell us to do something. Meanwhile, the fire is spreading.
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It's leaping into the blackberry bush that Sam has not trimmed from his yard, even though the fire department has sent out so many notices to the island about trimming blackberry bushes on private property. Ugh. Eventually, Elijah, who also is on call, takes charge as the only other lead firefighter and they get the fire put out. There's a hole in the roof.
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Yes, 100%. Kelsey calls it possip, positive gossip, which is very cute. And I feel like that situation lends itself so well to positive gossip. Like, did you wear the boots on a date? Did the date go well? Did the date go badly? Did the date notice the boots? Who's complimented you on the boots in public? What were they wearing? What are you wearing the boots with?
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The whole garage smells like smoke in a way that Kennedy knows is going to take months, if not years, to get rid of.
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But overall, the garage is going to be fine. Grace spends the whole time sobbing over Sam, who is completely fine, if Kennedy suspects a little stone. It's while the crew is cleaning up the scene, which is one of their only duties they're allowed to do without supervision, that they finally figure out what caused the fire.
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Sam, genius that he is, had blown a fuse trying to use a microwave and a toaster oven at the same time in the detached garage. No. Which, by the way, was absolutely full of partially charred snacks. Snacks that look just a little bit familiar. No! Wait, the fancy snacks? Correct.
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Kennedy is looking at some spin drift that she remembers unloading into the firehouse, along with a giant half-melted plastic jar of peanut butter pretzels that she was pretty sure had gone missing a week back. Kennedy is like, is this snack embezzlement?
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The crew starts gossiping on the ride back to the fire station, which also happens to be when Grace finally stops, like, shaking, crying, and throwing up, and starts yelling. Why did no one do anything? Do you have a, I'm really mad, but I'm not gonna show it, I'm gonna be calm voice?
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So something in Kennedy kind of just snaps when Grace starts yelling. Maybe it's the specter of snack embezzlement. Maybe it's the fact that they all just spent hours cleaning up the mess of Grace's stupid boyfriend. Whatever it is, it just makes Kennedy go berserk. And by berserk, I mean she puts on her mom voice and very calmly and methodically explains
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how gracious changes to the organizational structure of the fire department had led to that day's crisis. Kennedy is so calm, so methodical, that the rest of the crew just starts slowly nodding their head in agreement. By the end of her speech, even Elijah, Grace's father, is mumbling something about change being implemented in increments. Wow.
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And Grace may be young and perhaps stigmatized, but she's not stupid. Yeah. She's like, you know what? Fine. And she agrees to do a thorough review of her recent changes. And at first, Kennedy thinks it's the power of her mom voice, which, to be fair, is very powerful.
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But later, Kennedy learns from one of the cool Williams that the family was not pleased with Grace's choice of boyfriend or that he had embarrassed her so thoroughly. So all of that explains why a few days after the fire at Sam's house, Grace promotes everyone who has served on the fire department for longer than a year to lead firefighter, which at that point is basically everyone.
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Another reason Kennedy suspects she's giving crumbs is because Grace had been stuck going on call two weeks out of the month because every crew needed a lead firefighter. And under Grace's previous plan, there were so few of them. Right. Right. So this quells some of the tension, as does the approach of Christmas. And Christmas on S*** Island is truly something to behold.
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Everyone just puts their whole backs into decorating. The island's tree lighting ceremony is one of Kennedy's favorite moments of the entire year. It is so gorgeous. So she's just returned from the tree lighting ceremony. She's in a great mood. She knows she has some cookies at home from a neighbor.
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When she checks her email, and she receives an email, one that she receives every single year, from the town bookkeeper that details the fire department's finances. Except something is different this year. This year, Elijah Williams is cc'd on it. And at first, Kennedy actually doesn't think a whole lot of it because there are so many Williams who are in positions of power in the town.
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Emails get swapped all the time. You mean to send it to Williams1 at gmail.com and instead you send it to Williams3 at yahoo.com. It happens all the time. So Kennedy just responds back to the town bookkeeper like, happy holidays, lovely seeing you with the tree lighting. You've got the wrong Williams CC'd here. And the town bookkeeper responds like, I don't think so.
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As deputy chief, Elijah Williams needs to be CC'd on these emails going forward. Kennedy's like the math lady meme. She's like running calculations in her head. Oh, shit. It had been months since Grace originally proposed the creation of the deputy chief position that had gotten vetoed, and Kennedy hadn't really heard about it since. Right. Right.
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Kennedy is like, it's time to do an investigation. It's time for me to put on my Sherlock Holmes hat and go investigation mode. And by investigation mode, I mean she calls one of her best friends, another nurse at the doctor's office who also happens to be the island administrator. Small town. And the island administrator had access to the minutes of every single meeting the town council has.
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So she's able to find out that a few days after the fire at Sam's house, Grace had not only gone back to the town council with a new deputy chief proposal, she had gotten approval for the deputy chief proposal. After Grace got approval for the deputy chief proposal, Grace told the council that she'd already offered the job out to the whole crew. And everyone turned it down, except one man, Elijah.
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Wow. Grace is playing dirty. Kennedy kind of just blacks out for a second. She's so done with this shit. This child is ruining her life. She has one child in her life and that is her preschooler and she's not dealing with anymore. So Kennedy tells the town administrator that no one on the crew had been offered the position, which was paid, by the way, one of the few paying positions on the crew.
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Kennedy says, not only were we not offered this job, none of us were aware that it existed. Hmm. The town administrator tells Kennedy that not much can be done right now because of the holidays, but that Grace will be called in for a meeting with the town council as soon as business opens back up after the new year. We're almost at the end of the story. How are you feeling?
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He needs to expand his mind. I need him to consider that he contains multitudes. I could talk about this for hours. But speaking of wanting to know gossip, I heard you have some gossip for me that I want to know.
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Well, luckily, we do have a pretty sick conclusion from our friend of a friend who told us that as soon as business opened back up after the holidays, Grace was indeed called in for a meeting with the town council. Technically, Kennedy as next in line should have been at that meeting, but the Williams wanted to keep Grace's misdeeds as private as possible. So the meeting was closed to the public.
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But that wasn't the only meeting Grace had to attend. About 75% of the fire department, the non-Williams half, and then the contingent of cool Williams, were not happy once they heard about Elijah's elevation of deputy chief, not least because he is a fail son at many things.
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And the non-Williams plus cool Williams had enough of a majority to call for a series of crew meetings with Grace to discuss her blatant act of nepotism. Yeah. Except during these meetings, Grace refused to discuss her blatant act of nepotism. She said because of ongoing negotiations with the town council, she wasn't allowed to discuss the future of the deputy chief position.
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The crew's like, that's okay. We want to talk about the past of the deputy chief position, as in how the fuck did this happen without any of us knowing about it? But somehow these meetings never really went anywhere because Grace would just spend her time shitting on the town for lack of vision and budget mismanagement. What? She'd grumble about not being appreciated.
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Look at all the paperwork she digitized. Look at all the snacks she upgraded. Someone in the back mumbles, snacks that were at Sam's house?
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And the thing is, there were still enough non-cool Williams at these meetings that they could easily derail them, which meant that after every single one of these meetings, 75% of the crew would have another meeting huddled in the parking lot where they tried to figure out what they would do next. Does this just sound like the beginning of a union drive? It really does.
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But luckily or unluckily, it didn't get that far. Before they can sign their union cards, there's a morning where Kennedy is kind of just like puttering around her kitchen, getting ready for the day, hanging out with her kid who's at the stage where they're starting to pretend how to read.
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Kennedy's phone chimes and it's a text from someone on the crew that contains a Facebook link and the eyes emoji. The link sends Kennedy to Grace's Facebook page, where exactly 24 minutes prior, Grace announced her resignation as chief of the fire department. Oh, my God. Oh, shit.
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According to Grace's Facebook status, the reason she quit wasn't because her crew was planning to unionize against her. Kind of was because Grace says she's quitting because everyone's been so mean to her. Oh. And she just couldn't work in this sort of environment where innovation wasn't prioritized.
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And besides, Grace said, the town just refused to fund the fire department properly and she was fighting an uphill battle. She could not put any more of herself into a thankless job. What do you think of this?
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Kennedy is caught between, like, relief and disbelief. She scrolls through the comments, which are just a litany of Williamses being like, you did the best you could. And you've always thought too big for this town. And then there's one comment from Grace's grandfather, Noah Williams, who Kennedy's actually pretty fond of. He's one of the cool Williams in town.
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Grandpa Williams comments, Congrats on getting into University of Washington, sweetie. So proud of my future lawyer. I thought that's why you were quitting.
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Yeah, we have one more postscript from our friend of a friend. Do you want to hear it? I would love to. So, our friend of a friend says that she wound up stepping up as chief, but another one of her friends became co-chief with her. Her friend can deal with the equipment, and our friend gets to deal with the paperwork. She gets to be a slut for paperwork. Yeah.
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She says she's still co-chief and loving it. Elijah quit also in a virulent Facebook post after a town meeting because he was mad that they didn't thank the fire crew enough at the meeting.
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And we have a really enticing addendum from our friend of a friend who writes... If you like the setting of the island but aren't sure this one is a good fit, I also have a story about a school principal trying to shoot a ghost.
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Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normalgossip.
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You can follow me on all social media at heydenae, H-E-Y-Y-D-E-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Rix and Jay Tolviera. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Sujong Laughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors Business Guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer.
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Tom Lay is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find in normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Catherine Xu, Brandi Jensen, Louise Pais-Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.
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Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.
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Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. If you tuned in last week or to the finale of Season 7, I'm sorry because you're about to hear me repeat myself.
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Yeah, that's about what I expect from this milieu of man that you were describing.
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
Like I said at the top of the premiere of this season, if you haven't tuned in in a while, you might be thinking... That's not Kelsey's voice. You're correct. Your ears work. I'm still not Kelsey. And that will remain true for the foreseeable future unless they end up creating that face-off machine. At the end of season seven, normal gossip underwent a peaceful transition of power.
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I was literally just thinking this sounds like proxy.
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Yeah, I can only imagine. I mean, I feel like so many people in my life have had the experience of being broken up with in the same sort of casually cruel way where your humanity is sort of denied. Yeah. And it's not necessarily the most devastating breakup, but it is the most confusing. And I think just being able to answer the question of why did this happen? Why did this happen this way?
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Being able to answer those questions and not just having to sit with the uncertainty is hard. Co-healing. I love that for Harper. I hate that she was handcuffed for 13 hours and dehydrated, but I love that she was handcuffed to her proxy. That is incredible luck. I hope Jake is not doing this in further relationships.
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It's one thing to be self-aware. It's another thing to change your actions.
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Please just connect people with like the people who have ghosted. where it's like, just explain why. Just tell me why. Wow, that was great gossip. Thank you, Yoé. You're welcome.
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And I'm the captain now. If you'd like more details on the transition and our feelings around them, go listen to the finale of Season 7. If you've already done that, welcome. I'm so excited you're here, and I am even more excited to introduce our second guest of Season 8.
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Our story today takes place in a small island community off the coast of Washington State. The year-round population is just under 2,000 people, though that number doubles during the summer when the island is maybe one of the most beautiful places in the world. Because this island is only accessible by ferry or helicopter, the community is super tight-knit.
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Almost all of the emergency services on the island are done by volunteers from the community, from the EMTs to the fire department to the harbor patrol. Do you have any experience living in a small community like this? Does it appeal to you at all?
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
That is exactly how our friend of a friend, Kennedy, felt. Kennedy moved to *** Island 10 years ago when she was 24. You see, one of Kennedy's favorite movies growing up was the 1990 Arnold Schwarzenegger film, Kindergarten Cop. Have you seen this movie?
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
Just like what's flashing in my head. That is the most important image that you could have in your mind. And this movie is not essential viewing. It is pretty cute. I will say that. Arnold Schwarzenegger is an LAPD detective who has to go undercover as a kindergarten teacher in the Pacific Northwest. Hijinks ensue.
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
But I think the most important thing to note is that the town they film in is absolutely gorgeous. It has got that beautiful morning fog rolling in. The mountains are towering in the distance. Kennedy saw that movie as a little kid in the flat suburban sprawl of the Midwest and decided that when she grew up, she was going to live in the Pacific Northwest no matter what.
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
Exactly. Yeah. So when Kennedy saw a listing for a registered nurse on the island, she packed her bags immediately. And that was 10 years ago. And it was the perfect choice for her. Kennedy loves island life. It feels like the sort of place where the Winchester brothers from Supernatural would go in like the absolute best possible way.
Normal Gossip
Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
Today, I am joined by Yoé Shaw, the host and producer of Proxy, a podcast that answers niche emotional questions through conversations with experts and strangers with shared experiences. Yoe self-describes as an emotional investigative journalist, which is one of my favorite job titles I've ever heard.
Normal Gossip
Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
Kennedy loves that she can pretty much bike everywhere she needs to. She loves that she knows everyone and everyone knows her. She loves how the remoteness of the island instills a real sense of community engagement. Within a few months of her living there, she was asked to join the planning board, even though her degrees were in music, theater, and art history, and she was 24 years old.
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Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
And Kennedy did. She did it for six whole years. But she decided six years in that there might be a more fun way to serve her community. Yo-A, did you ever have the little kid dream of being a firefighter?
Normal Gossip
Sluts for Paperwork with Yowei Shaw
A person in uniform. So hot. So hot. Strong. Can break down a door.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Nadir, you have so many incredible questions. These are questions that my good sis Gemma should have asked before she went in, but it's too late now. It is too late. You're right. One last thing to know about this apartment. On the floor that's street level, there's like a little plant shop. Okay, we love that. Yeah. That's kind of like rom-com setting. Yeah.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
At first, this works out relatively okay for Gemma. In fact, she's having a phenomenal time. She's working a ton, so she's rarely home. Plus, everyone at the restaurant she's waiting tables at is like really, really cool. She joins a running club, which I know neither one of us would ever do. As we've established, we do not run.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
jemma's new enough to town that like every guy she passes on the street is hotter than the one before you know that feeling when you move to a really big city and you're like i didn't know they made them like this yes unfortunately yes so everything's coming up jemma everything except for the stew rachel the what Are you familiar with the concept of perpetual stew? God, yes.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Y'all, I love every episode of this season, but this one holds a special place in my heart because today's guest is none other than Slate staff writer Nadira Gough. Nadira is truly one of my absolute favorite people to record with. And I think by the end of this episode, y'all will definitely understand why.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Right, right, right, right, right, right. So according to Wikipedia, perpetual stew is also known as forever soup, hunter's pot, or hunter's stew. Perpetual stew is, quote, "...a pot into which foodstuffs are placed and cooked continuously. The pot is never or rarely emptied all the way and ingredients and liquid are replenished as necessary.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Such food can continue cooking for decades or longer if properly maintained."
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Not specific, just foodstuffs. Just foodstuffs. Exactly. Exactly. Duncan and Darcy's stew has been going for at least a year. Uh-huh. Okay. I read about one in Thailand that's been going on for over 45 years. And last year, a woman went viral for keeping a perpetual stew going for two months in Prospect Park.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Would you help yourself to some perpetual stew? It sounds like no.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, anybody who knows me knows that I have the gastrointestinal constitution of one of those kids who live in a bubble. So I'm not risking it. And neither is Gemma. No matter how many times Duncan and Darcy try to convince her that it's safe. Duncan and Darcy are obsessed with the stew. Like, they eat at least one helping of stew a day, sometimes up to three.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma has caught them spoon-feeding each other from the pot of stew. No!
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yes, yes. One more thing is that Duncan and Darcy refer to the stew as Stewie, and they refer to themselves as Stewie's parents. Parents? No!
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Some of y'all who are paid subscribers to the show have already heard me and Nadira acting a damn fool. If you're not subscribed as a friend of a friend or a friend, you are missing out not just on Nadira, but on some exclusive listener-submitted gossip. If you want to sign up, go to defector.com slash products slash normal gossip. Okay, that is for real all the housekeeping.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma will openly admit that sometimes this stew smells pretty good. But then other times it smells like something low-key died in it. The stew is always just simmering away while Gemma's trying to cook. And Duncan and Darcy tend to leave all the trimmings from the stew ingredients just on the counter. So Gemma's always throwing away, like, potato and carrot peels.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
So maybe you should. Sometimes Duncan and Darcy will text the roommate group chat like, whoever's home, can you turn down the stew?
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Would you be okay babysitting your housemate, Stu?
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yep. Gemma's in her room one night when she hears a scream. Oh no. Gemma runs down the stairs and finds Ruth, her witchy high school classmate, standing in the kitchen. Gemma's like, dude, what the fuck? I thought you were getting murdered. Oh, so it was like a blood-curdling scream. Like, someone got stabbed. I'm locked in.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And Ruth sort of shudders and then points to the corner of the kitchen where Gemma sees... A dozen little shiny bodies scattering across the floor.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Ruth's like, I know it's so gross. The two go on a roach-killing spree before wiping everything in the kitchen down. They store the bunches of unused herbs on the cutting board in plastic bags. This was not being done before? Okay. And then they see it. See what? A roach swimming in the perpetual stew. This stew is your roommate's child.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
This is Stewie, their baby, and it is also currently providing a Viking funeral for a roach. What do you do? A Viking funeral is diabolical.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Without further ado... Nadira, hello! Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. I am so excited to be here. I am really so thrilled. Our subscribers have had the absolute pleasure of meeting you before the whole audience does, but for those of y'all who have not had the pleasure of hearing Nadira, you're in for a beautiful ride.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
That's really smart. Gemma and Ruth are like, fuck it. I'm done. And they toss Stewie away. I guess that's fair. Is the assumption that the roaches came because of the perpetual stew? The perpetual stew, the stuff on the counter that goes into the perpetual stew.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah. So they gone with the wind. The stew. It goes with the wind. And Ruth sages the kitchen just to be extra safe.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
What are you saying in the roommate group chat after this?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma and Ruth, they craft a statement together that Gemma said. Okay, that's smart. So first Gemma texts a photo of the cockroach carcasses to the chat just to be like, we're not making anything up. Here's the evidence. Yeah, absolutely. And then she's like, hey guys, we seem to have a pest problem. Ruth and I killed as many as possible, but I think we should all be on high alert going forward.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And then she's like, we stored everything in the fridge and wiped everything down. But unfortunately, the stew had to go. Before finally being like, and let's all be extra careful with our food storage from now on. Do you think this is an adequate response?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Duncan sends a thumbs up. Darcy just doesn't respond. Darcy. And two days later, the stew is reborn. Along with the piles of carrot and potato peels on the counter, the new stew is referred to as chewy.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Before we get into the gossip, I would love to know what your relationship to gossip is.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Three days after Tui's resurrection, the cockroaches also returned. Of course. Gemma continues to send texts that start with, hey guys, but nothing changes. After a few weeks of this, Gemma is like, I'm tired of this. I'm just going to take things into my own hands. She's tired of turning on the kitchen light to see roaches scattering.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
She's tired of the smell of vegetables composting in the open air. She's tired of the kitchen being too scary to cook in. So on one of her rare free days, Gemma spends four hours cleaning the kitchen from top to bottom, throwing away all the forgotten heads of lettuce and shriveled up old mushrooms. She plugs any holes she can find with steel wool and spray foam.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And then finally, she calls in the big guns. She spends a third of her savings and calls in pest control.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
In New York, at least. No, I know. I know. I had mice in an apartment and I... Useless. Useless. Expensive and useless.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
It really, yeah, no, I see. I, yeah, same, same.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
I agree. I agree. You do have a very, like... I trust your face, you know? I look at you and I'm like, yes, I trust her.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, the exterminator lays down some like special gel shit that apparently deters cockroaches. And the pest control guy tells Gemma that the special gel needs to be left on for about 12 hours before being cleaned up. Gemma's like, okay, cool, easy. She texts the group chat like, I paid for an exterminator for the roaches, please avoid the kitchen for the next 12 hours.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And she explains everything about the special gel. Ruth responds immediately like, OMG, thank you so much. And then Venmo's Gemma $50.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
We love Ruth in this house. Once again, Duncan thumbs up. Okay. Once again, Darcy doesn't respond.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
They are. They are. They're a couple. Okay. Okay. Which of these responses would piss you off more?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
The thumbs up just really gets under Gemma's skin. She is like enraged and exhausted from also cleaning all day. So she decides to take a nap. You know that like angry nap?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yes. She passes out on the couch, and when she wakes up about two hours later, she can hear music coming from the kitchen along with the sounds of Darcy singing. Gemma can also smell the unmistakable smell of Peppermint Dr. Bronner's Castile soap.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, so Gemma goes into the kitchen and she finds Darcy mopping the kitchen floor. There was all this weird stuff all over the floor, Darcy says. I'm almost done cleaning it up.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Girl, that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that men are in a worse state than they have ever been. Do you want to date a man right now? Oh, God, no. Yeah, exactly. There you go.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, I'm not a morning person. I think you know this about me. I do not wake up on the right side of the bed ever. Never have once in my life. I need at least an hour after waking up before I can even begin to think of speaking to someone else. Gemma is the same way. And our girl has just woken up from a nap. So she can be forgiven for not being cool, calm, collected in this moment.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
She's like, Darcy, what the fuck did you not read the group chat? And Darcy's like, oh, I'm on a phone detox right now. And so then Gemma explains about the roaches and the pest control. And Darcy's like, oh, well, I'm sure a few hours is enough time for it to start working. And then Darcy's like, besides having so many chemicals around probably isn't good for us either. The chemical is you.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
What's not clicking? I don't understand. Do you think a few hours is enough time for the special gel to have worked? The man with the fake job said 12. So it must be 12. Yeah, the roaches return. The roaches do return. And Gemma just gives up on eating at home. And she starts eating all of her meals at the restaurant, which she is spending a lot of time there.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
So she just starts spending more time there. But she also starts looking for a new room.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
But she spent a third of her savings on pest control and only Ruth had paid her back. So it's very slow going.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Well, around this time, a new resident is added to the apartment. Huge news! Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times best-selling book of beautiful essays about gossip. It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, mostly true notes on gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
There you go. It's called living single for a reason, Nadira. In a 90s kind of world, I'm glad I got my girls.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun. And not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audiobook, which Kelsey narrates. You can buy wherever you buy your books. You can also go to KelseyMcKinneyBook.com to see all retailers.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
One day, Gemma comes home from a shift at the restaurant and she's greeted at the door by maybe the cutest kitten she has ever seen in her entire life. And Gemma, she's just a girl. So at first she's like, oh my God. But then she's like, oh my God, whose fucking cat is this? Whose cat is this? Well, just then Darcy comes in from the kitchen and Darcy's like, oh, you've met my familiar.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Well, Duncan and Darcy had decided that the vibes were off in the house and that it was because of a surplus of feminine energy. It is because of them! That's the cat, who is indeed a boy. What do you do?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
A little birdie told me you've got some gossip for me. Well, yes. Okay, see what had happened was... Ooh, I love a story that starts with, well, what had happened was... I've been lying to my mom for over a decade.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Do they? They do. They're actually really good hunters. I saw my cat eat a silverfish once.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah. Yeah. Gemma starts searching even harder for new housing. And things settle into sort of an uneasy stasis. The cat, who we've named Merlin, is a very skilled hunter and does spend his evenings killing roaches. Good! Shout out to Merlin. Shout out to Merlin. Unfortunately, Merlin is not very skilled at using his litter box. Oh, Jesus Christ. And he shits everywhere but his litter box.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Kitchen. Shit. Couch. Shit. Shower. Shit. Stairway. Shit. Every single rug in the whole apartment. Shit.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma starts keeping her door closed at all times. Even Ruth, who was originally thrilled with Merlin in the beginning, starts to make snippy little comments in the group chat. Like, Darcy and Duncan weren't wrong that the vibes are bad. The constant bubbling of the stew on the stove starts to feel ominous.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma's bitching to her coworkers one day, and one of them is like, "'Have you tried talking to them?' And Gemma's like, well, yeah, kind of. Well, yeah, kind of.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma's co-worker is like, babe, you got to talk to them at least once, like face to face. Yeah. It seems like you think this is good advice. I think this should have happened fourscore and seven years ago. Yeah, Jim is like, well, I've tried doing everything else, so I guess I can't just talk to them. And all of her housing leads keep falling through. So one day after a shift, she like,
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
bucks up her courage to finally confront Darcy and Duncan about everything the roaches that even Merlin can't keep up with the stew and the piles of compostable shit that it creates Merlin's literal shit Gemma's like pumping herself up as she walks up the stairs But as she gets closer to the front door of the apartment, she can hear music playing and people laughing.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And when she enters the apartment, it smells like weed and incense smoke. There are five or six women in flowing linen clothes lounging around the living room. It's very clear that Darcy has company. What's also clear is that Darcy is in a very good mood. She's like, Gemma, come and have a drink. Do you have a drink?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma's like, I can't lie. I'm a little bit charmed. She's like, this is good, actually. We'll have a good night. We'll build the friendship. And that will help me talk to Darcy when the time is right.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Gemma's like, this is the most non-threatening way for me to get my peace back while avoiding as much conflict as possible.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
So Gemma takes a few hits off the gravity bong. She like sinks into the springs of the old couch. She's petting Merlin, who continues to be cute, even though he shits everywhere. Many such cases. And then Gemma notices the French doors to the balcony are open. It's like a beautiful night with a gorgeous full moon.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And the balcony is covered with objects of like various shapes and sizes that are glimmering in the moonlight. Some crystals. We got some crystal time. We're charging. Okay. Gemma's like, what's going on out there? And Darcy's friend is like, we're charging our crystals in the moonlight. Gemma turns back to the crystals and starts like kind of like really looking at them.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And she realizes that some of them are sort of phallic. And a lot of them are more like egg shaped. And that's when the girls like we're planning on inserting them at midnight to align our chakras for the full beaver moon, which is a real thing, by the way.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
The girl starts to explain to Gemma about like the passages of energy, but Gemma just excuses herself and flees to her room. She's like, I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, but I also don't really know how to feel about people charging their energy dildos in a shared public space.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
It's once a year, and I believe it's the full moon that happens in November. Okay, that's fine. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, yeah. We're almost at the end of our story. How are you feeling?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, so a week after the energy dildo experience, Gemma's in the kitchen, like pouring cereal into Ziploc bags, when she hears Ray's voices coming from the living room. And it sounds a lot like Ruth is fighting with Darcy. Do you mind your own business?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Let me join. Gemma does not mind her business either, but she doesn't get involved. She just goes like really still and quiet so she can listen. And she hears Ruth saying, look, I'm not telling you what to do with your body, but I have been covering you and Duncan's side of the gas bill for the past two months. And we all know who is using the stove the most.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Darcy's like, you offered to help me. You said it wasn't a problem. And Ruth's like, it wasn't a problem, but it is now. If you need me to help cover your dumb decisions, then yeah, of course I have a problem with it. And Darcy's like, I thought we were friends. You said I didn't need to explain. Ruth is like, it's not like you don't have a job. Why haven't you paid me back?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And Darcy's like, I don't know. I just never have money left. I don't know where it goes. Well, you better find out. Gemma hears Ruth just like deeply sigh. And then Ruth's like, Darcy, has it not occurred to you that it might be expensive to have to go to urgent care for food poisoning seven times? Oh my.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Those are good questions that I can't answer right now, but I do have questions for you, which is, have you ever heard of the danger zone? Not the Kenny Loggins song.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
It's okay. I did some food safety research because quite honestly, the whole concept of a perpetual stew seems like a biohazard to me personally. I spent some time in the perpetual stew subreddit. It's true. You might say I've had to really simmer in this knowledge for a while.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
You are lucky. So the thing is, perpetual stews can be kept safely. You just have to be so, so careful about the temperature. Like bacteria grows most rapidly between 40 degrees and 140 degrees Fahrenheit. That's a danger zone. The safest way to ensure a stew doesn't become a breeding ground for bacteria is actually to keep it in a slow cooker because then it keeps the temperature even.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Oh, that makes sense. Another important thing about keeping the temperature even is that you have to be very, very careful about keeping enough liquid in the perpetual stew. And the best way to do that is by not leaving a ton of starches in it, like beans or potatoes or rice, because they can make it hard to keep the entire thing heated properly. Makes sense.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, so apparently Darcy and Duncan had taken turns over the past year getting violently food poisoned and getting so dehydrated that they had to go to urgent care to get fluids. And because Gemma was working so much, she hadn't really noticed that they'd been in and out. But as she's standing in the living room, she's like, wait, is that why the bathroom was always occupied?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
I just thought someone had IBS. Yeah. Meanwhile, Darcy is like, it's not the stew's fault. And Duncan finally chimes in like, yeah, we've been adding more ginger and turmeric to it. So it's actually healing us.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
sayonara so long you and jemma both reached your breaking point at the same time because jemma is like i have heard enough i mean correction i reached my breaking point as soon as the cockroaches showed up no you're right but yes continue jemma just leaves and she goes up to her room her bedroom door is open and as soon as she steps inside she's immediately hit with a familiar sight and smell
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, this is the final straw for Gemma. By the end of the month, Gemma manages to find a new room in her co-worker's apartment and she moves the fuck out. Good.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
No, you were 15. You had more important things going on.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And then it like flashes back to- I haven't heard that name in 72 years.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Will you ever look at a broth-based meal the same way ever again?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Oh my God. Are you saying that we gave you trauma? That's a new one. The normal gossip promise is updated.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
After Gemma's all settled into her new apartment, she throws a housewarming party. And a few people at her housewarming party know both her and Ruth. And one of the girls pulls Gemma aside and is like, you are so lucky to have gotten out of the house when you did. Apparently, one weekend while Ruth was out of town, Darcy had decided to sage the entire apartment because the bad energies, you know.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
No, exactly. You're like, well, obviously I've already thought about this. Why don't you know this already, Nicole? Exactly.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
She decided to do this high, so it's unclear if it was the sage or the joint that lit the fire. What we do know is that Darcy took a nap and woke up to the living room engulfed in flames. No one was harmed.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
There wasn't any structural damage, but the fire department had to be called to put the fire out and most of Darcy and Duncan's belongings were drenched and all of the water soaked through to the plant shop on the ground level, which caused a massive loss of inventory.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
The owner of the shop immediately hired a lawyer to make the tenants pay up. But luckily, Ruth and Gemma were never actually on the lease, so they're in the clear. Meanwhile, Darcy and Duncan just disappear in the night. Like, no one knows where they went. They left behind Merlin the cat. Oh, my God. But even though his plants had been ruined, the owner of the plant shop took pity on Merlin.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
So now Merlin is living his best life in the backyard of the plant shop.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
No, I think that's fair. I think that's what the phone detox led towards. You're right. Because only going off the grid can you disappear like that. People who didn't disappear are Ruth, who after this entire experience decided to pack up all of her stuff and become a digital nomad. She said, no more leases for me. I'm happy for her.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Wow. Normal gossip. Inspiring generational curses. Generational trauma. Generational curses. Nadira. Thank you so much. You've given me new bars to aspire to.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Something you'll never forget. Something I will never forget. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at normalgossip. You can follow me on all social media at heydenae, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sarah Spragley-Rix and Jay Tolviera. Thank you to Samantha Gacic, our audio engineer. And thank you to Danielle Hewitt for your additional production help this season.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
The co-creators and Dowager Queen's Phenomenal Gossip are Alex Dujong-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defector's projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Coon are Defector's business guys. Alex Dujang-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer. Tom Leigh is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Catherine Chu, Brandi Jensen, Luis Pérez-Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for all your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to episode six, y'all. If you didn't tune in last week or you're not following us on Instagram, I have got some incredibly exciting news. This fall, Ciara and I are going on tour for the first time.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
I can picture this so clearly. And what is so funny about this is that this could 100% have been papered over so easily. So easily. If you just said, oh, I assumed you were having a party because you're turning 16 and that's a big age, you would have been like, oh, yeah, you're right. Right.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
The thing is, that's also what I would do to my siblings. So I see everyone's side here. Yes. Yes.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Wow. So your mother started planning. Oh, yes.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Yeah, Nadir is a Philly girl, in case you somehow missed that. Somehow we went in a whole minute. You guys, I can be not insufferable, you know?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Not you singing happy birthday to yourself.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Aww, I both hope your mom is listening and I hope your mom isn't listening.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Thank you. That was beautiful gossip. I love self gossip. I love gossip that might spark some discourse in your own life.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Keep us updated and I will let the listeners know how Nicole reacts to this. Thank you. In the meantime, I have a story for you.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
This September, we are bringing Normal Gossip to nine different cities. We are stopping in New York, Boston, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Denver, Dallas, Austin, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Tickets went on sale to the public on Friday, May 9th. So that means if you are listening right now and live in any of those cities, you can go buy a ticket immediately at normalgossiplive.com.
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Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Okay, so today... Our friend of a friend is Gemma. Gemma is 18, and she has just moved out of her parents' house and into a shared apartment in a trendy neighborhood in an expensive East Coast city. We know some things about that.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
This isn't just Gemma's first time living on her own. Gemma grew up in a small town in the Midwest, so this is also Gemma's first time living in a big city. For 18, that's a lot. I know. Have you ever made a move like this where the stakes feel really, really high?
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
I mean, I like to think it was, but I understand. Thank you. Thank you. Jemma is lucky to have supportive parents who can send her $60 for groceries on occasion and keep her on their phone plan. Not a small thing. But they're not the kind of parents who are going to be paying her rent. Right, right, right. Luckily, Jemma has a job. She's waiting tables at a restaurant.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
And even luckier, Jemma managed to find a housing deal through a friend from high school.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Well, Ruth is two years older than Gemma. She's kind of witchy. Like, she sold love spells in high school. And Gemma had heard about the spells working for at least two different people.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Okay. Exactly. And a few months back, Ruth had posted about a room opening up in her apartment on Instagram. I see. Okay. Here's where our friend of a friend arguably makes her first mistake because Gemma agrees to take the room without ever seeing it in person. Okay.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Well, I gotta say, it works out relatively okay for Gemma. Like, her room is pretty cute. It's definitely small, but it's in a cool little attic space that gets, like, really incredible plantage light. The rest of the apartment is... Well, it's an apartment with four walls that keep out rain and snow. We love shelter. Shout out to shelter. But the kitchen has clearly never been updated.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
The windows in the kitchen are tiny and covered in grime, so no natural light gets in. Oh, God. All the furniture in the living room is clearly just like what's been left over from previous tenants. Yeah. There are currently four tenants, including Gemma and Ruth, but there's only one bathroom.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
This is Sierra and I's very first tour, and we are so, so excited to bring this show on the road, and we'll even be meeting some of y'all. There are exclusive VIP tickets for every show that include a meet and greet with the both of us, where I hope y'all will bring me some delicious little morsels of gossip. That is all the housekeeping for today's show. Now, on to the gossip.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
I will say the apartment's saving grace is that it's really clear that someone has tried to make it a home. It has that, like, cozy kind of overstuffed vibe. There's a lot of, like, fabric wall hangings and floor pillows. It always smells like sandalwood incense. Every available surface has a plant on it. Okay, we love that. Okay, I'm sorry. This is great. More of this, please.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
The other two tenants, besides Gemma and Ruth, are a couple. Darcy and Duncan.
Normal Gossip
Devilish Horde of Pestilence with Nadira Goffe
Darcy and Duncan are also witchy. Oh, God. Not a coven. Well, Ruth gives like practical magic witchy. Yeah. Darcy and Duncan give like Burning Man witchy. They're like evangelists for composting. They have a struggling herb garden growing in a windowsill. Aluminum hasn't touched their armpits in at least a decade. They talk about their gut health a lot.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I am eternally grateful, not just to Kelsey and Alex and the whole Normal Gossip team for being giving me this opportunity. I'm also so, so grateful to y'all, the audience, for giving me a chance. I have a feeling we're going to have a good time together. If you want to have an even better time together, we have a newsletter and subscriber episodes.
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The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
This is very similar to the kind of school that Morgan is at. They have just the biggest media scene you could possibly have. Just in print, there's the campus magazine. There's two dueling arts and culture magazines. There's a fashion magazine, which is, of course, separate from the women's magazine. There's a local student radio station.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And then there's the blogs, just dozens of them, each more niche than the last. But Morgan doesn't really give a shit about any of those because to her, like a real newspaper kid, the only real game in town is the student newspaper. And it's true that the newspaper is the campus's longest running publication, but that's not why Morgan joined the paper.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
She joined the paper because of all the school's various publications. The paper throws the best parties. And that's because one of the established duties of the editor-in-chief of the student newspaper is to preside over the weekly parties after close. So at the school, the editor-in-chief of the newspaper is always a senior. And all those campus seniors typically had the sweetest housing deals.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And this year's editor-in-chief, Grant, had the sweetest housing deal of them all. Grant is tall with that kind of floppy hair that made everyone's heart go pitter-patter. Yeah. He's still dating his high school sweetheart, and everyone on the paper calls them mom and dad.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Because Grant has family money, the townhouse he rented was not only decently upkept, but for a college senior, it was also extremely well furnished. Like, there were multiple rugs. Oh. The chairs at the dining table, which was made of real wood, by the way, all matched. Morgan had even heard that Grant had a headboard and a nightstand.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That's true. You're very busy. Nothing impressed Morgan more in Grant's apartment, though, than the couch. Satya, tell me about your first couch.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
When did you realize how expensive couches were?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That sounds so comfortable. Custom furniture is so chic. It's fun. Oh, my God.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah. So I didn't know that until a few years after college when I was considering replacing the couch that my parents gave me for free. And I was just like, I've had this for so long. It's like 10 years old. I should get a new one. And then I looked at couch prices and I was like, never mind. I will not be getting a new one.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
But our girl Morgan is precocious because she's spent so much time on aesthetic Tumblr. She has a real eye for furniture. And she also knows just how expensive it is, which is why when she sees Grant's couch for the first time, she almost cries. It's big. and velvet and marine blue. And it's so, so, so comfortable. It's the kind of couch where sitting on it immediately puts you at ease.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
If you upgrade your subscription to friend or friend of a friend, in the subscriber episodes, you get exclusive bits of gossip. They're all pretty good. Now, if you've been tuning in and are now thinking, I know all of this already, give me the gossip. Well, you're in luck because I'm done with my little spiel and I'm now ready to introduce the very first guest of season eight of Normal Gossip.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And Morgan knows us very well because at every single party for the last year, she has spent the whole night glued to Grant's couch, which is also exactly how I operated a party. I will be locating a place to sit down and I will be holding court from there all night long. Correct.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah, exactly. I will salute you from across the room. Morgan's love for this couch is so clear that halfway through the school year, when Morgan finally gives up the courage to ask Grant what he plans to do with it, Grant bequeaths the couch to her, which means...
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That for every single Friday night for the past four months, when Morgan has been sitting down on that big blue couch, she has done so with the knowledge that she was going to own it one day. It's this knowledge that carries her through finals and the last close of the newspaper, which was particularly torturous because of Kobe.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Saatchi, if you had to describe the typical white man in media, how would you? Okay.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Okay, so now imagine that, that image that you just had in your head. Yeah. Imagine that with an undeveloped prefrontal cortex. Yeah. So Kobe is Grant's roommate, which is maybe the only reason why anyone still talks to him. He's the newspaper's sports reporter.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And because the school basically has no sports, Kobe has way too much time on his hand, which means his pieces are always 600 words too long. And since it's in print, that still matters.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
He also does that specific white man in media thing where because he feels so strongly about objectivity and bias, he always has to cover both sides. What that means in practice is that whenever he covers women's sports, he interviews someone who thinks women's sports should be defunded. Oh, boy.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
One of his very first op-eds argued that, for clarity's sake, white journalists shouldn't censor themselves when discussing the N-word because there's obviously a different N-word than the one we're all thinking of that it could be confused for. You know? For clarity's sake. What?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
The outcry over that op-ed is what got Kobe moved on to sports where he can terrorize the campus's minority jock population. And the thing is, Kobe's not just a terror during work hours. How do you think this kind of guy behaves at parties?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Kobe never contributes anything to the parties, even though he lives with Grant. He always brings random extra people without telling anyone. And no one can leave their four loco around him because he'll just steal it. He's a real four loco fiend. Everyone's waiting for Grant to graduate so they can just stop hanging out with Kobe, including Morgan. Though Morgan has her own reasons.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You see, in a moment of weakness, she hooked up with Kobe last year.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So Morgan had her moment of weakness last year, which is how she found out that at night, Kobe goes up on the elevated train tracks near campus to write really shitty poetry. Once her friends on the newspaper found out that Morgan and Kobe hooked up, they took out an anonymous ad in the lost and found section of the paper that read lost dignity with Morgan's dorm address listed next to.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
This is the beginning. This is the beginning? This is the beginning. So we're at the end of Morgan's sophomore year. And even though Kobe's sports column had come in 200 words too long, without a lead or a kicker or a point at all, really, Morgan is entering the last closed party of the school year on a high.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I am so thrilled to be joined by none other than Saatchi Cole. Saatchi is a senior writer at Slate and the author of two books. Her most recent book, Sucker Punch, just came out in March and it is a beautiful collection of essays. Sachi also produced the documentary Girls Gone Wild, The Untold Story, and she is a co-host of the Scamfluencers podcast. Sachi, welcome.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
She has, you know, a bright future in the extremely stable digital media industry ahead of her. She's going to get her couch and She'll never have to step foot into Kobe's apartment again. Everything is coming up, Morgan. Do you remember this point in college where it felt like you were kind of like on the cusp of something?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So Morgan's full of hope, which can tend to make you a little bit reckless. Um, so towards the end of this last closed party, she gets a chance to talk to Grant for the first time. Grant has a fellowship of Mother Jones lined up. It's even paid. So she congratulates him. And then she's like, so when should I pick up my couch? And at first, Grant looks confused. And then a little sheepish.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And Morgan is an observant bitch, so she is immediately like, what's wrong? Grant's like, Morgan, I'm so sorry. And Morgan feels her eye twitch before she responds, sorry for what? And that's when Grant tells her that he completely forgot that he had promised her the couch. Oh. And that when Kobe, his roommate, asked if he could keep it, Grant said yes.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Tonight is the couch's last night in Grant's care. Morgan's trying not to freak out, but she is devastated. She had so many plans for the big blue couch. She knew exactly where it was going to go in her very first off-campus apartment, right underneath the big picture window with southern exposure. So every day she'd wake up to the couch bathed in beautiful morning light.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Kobe would not appreciate the couch like she would. Kobe had once told Morgan that there wasn't a difference between turquoise and cerulean. Oh, boy. He wouldn't know that the couch was the most perfect shade of ultramarine blue. Grant does that, you know, drunk white man thing and mumbles an apology before kind of just patting her shoulder and ambling off.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
It's very clear that he is washing his hands of this whole couch business. He's basically graduated. Not his circus. Not his monkeys. How are you feeling, Saatchi? What do you do now? The couch that has been promised to you is soon going to be in the possession of one of your greatest enemies.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That's exactly where you should be. Morgan does not set the couch on fire. She loves the couch too much. But Morgan also has to leave for her unpaid internship in Brooklyn the next day. So she can't really do anything. She spends the whole summer doing her little menial task and spending way too much money in Williamsburg, spending far too much time at Union Pool. She's figuring out the G train.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
She loves Manhattan Hinge. She's having a great time. Beautiful. And in between all of that, she's plotting. She's scheming. So that when she lands back in town in the fall, she's much broker than when she left, but she also has a plan. First action item, find couch. Huge news! Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times best-selling book of beautiful essays about gossip.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
My first question is, do you consider yourself a gossip?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, mostly true notes on gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun. And not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audiobook, which Kelsey narrates.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Morgan, she's a journalist. She's an investigator. She watched a lot of Criminal Minds growing up, so she's prepared to do some, like, backroom dealing. Over the course of a week, she methodically works her way through every single member of the student newspaper under the guise of checking in as the incoming deputy editor and reporting.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Somehow in every check-in conversation, she's like, remember that really nice couch that Grant had last year? It's such a shame that no one knows where it's at. Do you know where it's at? Luckily for her, everyone on the paper was obsessed with the couch, so they are all down to muse about his current location. No one has seen Kobe's new place.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And in fact, it's not until Morgan's third day of check-ins that she finds out that Kobe doesn't even have a new place. Instead, the copy chief tells Morgan that Kobe is apparently living with the managing editor of the shittier arts and culture magazine, the one that loved to publish unverified blind items about students on campus. What do you do with this information?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
She's not sure about Kobe's new boo. Morgan continues her little check-ins. She has a chat with the features editor to see if she can maybe find the address of Kobe's new girlfriend. Is she maybe considering some breaking and entering? It's not important. And the features editor doesn't know anything.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
On the last day of her check-in, she talks to Robbie, the paper's managing editor, and her roommate. Now, Morgan and Robbie have been best friends since freshman year when they bonded over their mutual love of True Blood. True Blood. She loves Robbie, and that's why she saved the best conversation for last.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Robbie also got back into town a little bit later than everyone else, so this is really just their first time to chat. Robbie and Morgan are cooking dinner. Morgan's checking in. She's asking Robbie what his goals are for the paper this year, asking how he feels about the new crop of freshman reporters, asking how he thinks this year's parties will measure up to last year's.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
There's no way they can be as good, right, because the couch isn't there anymore. And then finally, Morgan's like, there's no way the new editor-in-chief will have us comfortable with a couch. What a shame. And then Robbie says something that surprises Morgan. He says, that fucking couch? And Morgan's like, how can anyone have anything but positive things to say about this couch? It's perfect.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Externally, she says, oh, I didn't realize you didn't like the couch. And Robbie's like, I like the couch just fine, but my parents are really on my ass about it. And Morgan's like, what? Why?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And that's when Robbie reveals that in the final weeks of the last school year, after Morgan had left campus, Kobe had somehow talked Robbie into storing the couch at Robbie's parents' house over the summer since Robbie lived a half hour away from campus. How would you feel if you were Morgan? You finally located your white whale. What do you do? I would be so mad.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Morgan also feels crazy. Morgan feels like an idiot because this whole time the couch has been right under her nose. She had never thought to ask Robbie about Kobe because Robbie has spent the last week bitching about Kobe on the editor's listserv. Kobe has not only somehow already missed a deadline, but he's refusing to answer texts.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So Robbie has already had to find someone else to cover the junior girls handball game. Morgan's mind is spinning. She very quickly decides honesty is the best policy. Robbie already seems pissed off, so he seems like an ally. And he's her roommate, so she would have to bring him into any planned couch-stealing activities at some point.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So she tells him the whole sordid tale, how Grant had promised her the couch, the dream she had of the couch, had she had chosen their apartment specifically because it was big enough to house the couch, and then how Grant had reneged on his promise before skipping town like a bandit in the night. And now Morgan says, well... Now we have an incredible opportunity.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And Robbie's like, but what happens when Kobe wants his couch back? He's gonna get dumped. We all know that's gonna happen. Right. And Morgan's like, that's future Morgan's problem. Correct. Current Morgan wants couch. Correct. And Robbie is like most college age kids and will do literally anything to get his parents off his back. So they devise a heist.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And by heist, I mean they rent a U-Haul and tell Robbie's parents that there's been a little miscommunication at the couch is actually hers and not Kobe's. Do you see any problems with this plan? No. No. Robbie's parents don't give a single fuck. They're planning on buying a new car and want full use of their garage back.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So when Robbie and Morgan pull up in the U-Haul, Robbie's parents send them off with a couch, a six-pack of beer, and $50 in cash so they can get pizza that night. They're like, adios, muchachos, thank you so much. Morgan's just like a little bit nervous when they first get to Robbie's house because she's like, I haven't seen this couch in months. What if it's not as beautiful as I thought it was?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
What if Kobe fucked something up when he moved it into storage? What if it's been, I don't know, taken over by termites? But then Robbie pulls the moving blanket off the couch and as soon as she sees it, she knows she had no reason to fear because the couch is still the most perfect shade of ultramarine blue that she has ever seen in her life.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And that night as she's lying on her perfect blue couch under her big picture window with southern exposure full of pizza and beer high on her heist, Morgan thinks life can't get any better than this. How are you feeling so far?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
For a whole semester, the couch is completely fine. Morgan's feeling incredible. So incredible that as weeks pass and Kobe never plays, comes by to claim the couch or text Robbie about it, Morgan starts telling people how she came by this couch.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And you're right. And the thing is, at first it's just close friends because they notice the couch in her place and they're like, this is such a nice couch. You're not rich. Where'd this come from? And Morgan's like, well. And then suddenly somehow the whole newspaper knows. That she has the couch.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yes. You think this is a smart idea? Seems like no.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Morgan might be concerned about this making its way back to Kobe, except no one on the paper has seen Kobe in months. Since he started hooking up with the art girly, he has completely abandoned his role on the newspaper. At one point, Morgan had to send a movie critic to cover the women's water polo tournament. So everyone's pretty peeved at Kobe.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
It's very revealing. This is the same way I feel about reality television, where people say because it's produced that it doesn't say anything real. And I'm like, no, the invisible hand of the production and what they think we want to see is actually very, very instructive.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And he seems to know this because he has fully stopped coming to parties. All of that changes, though, at the beginning of the winter semester. Within a few days of returning to campus after winter break, Morgan starts hearing rumors through the grapevine that Kobe got dumped by his girlfriend over Christmas.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That is confirmed when one day, Kobe texts Robby without acknowledging any of the many unanswered texts Robby had sent to Kobe over the past semester. Kobe texts, Hey, dude. Hope you had a good break. When can I come pick up my couch? What do you do?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Robbie freaks the fuck out. Yeah. He's like, Morgan, what do we do? What do I tell him? And... Morgan, well, Morgan, before anyone had ever heard the phrase gaslight girl boss gatekeep, is ready to do all three. Right. She tells Robbie, pull yourself together. And then she tells him to lie. Remember, she tells him. you're in the right.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That asshole left a whole couch at your parents' house for months without a word or a storage fee. And Robbie's like, right, right. You're right. Uh-huh. And he texts Kobe back like, I don't know, dude. I thought you picked it up from my parents' house months ago. Kobe's like, why would you think that? And Robbie's like, because I asked you to multiple times.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Three dots appear, and then they disappear, and then they reappear, and they finally disappear for good. Kobe seems to have gotten the message that he did fuck up in this regard. Morgan knows this isn't the last that they'll hear from Kobe. Everyone knows how much she loved that couch last year. If anyone was going to steal it, it would be her.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Morgan is starting to feel an emotion familiar to any blabbermouth, which is regret. She is fairly certain that the people she knows wouldn't tell Kobe, but what if they told someone else who told Kobe?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
We're almost at the end of the story. How are you feeling?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So Morgan starts whipping boats. She calls everyone on the newspaper to ensure their loyalty to her if Kobe comes asking about the couch. She's going conclave mode low key. She's like, I will control the narrative. Which it turns out she was right to do because a few days later, Kobe texts Robbie and Morgan in a group chat like, I know you're keeping something from me.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah. We never met. Yeah. Robbie is like, I don't know what you're talking about. And Morgan's like, Kobe, we hooked up two years ago. Why are you still obsessed with me?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Kobe's like, quit bullshitting me. I know you have the couch. Morgan's like, prove it. And then she instructs Robbie to stop responding. Kobe continues to harangue them. The newspaper receives an anonymous tip about an on-campus couch thief that everyone has a good time laughing about during that week's close, which, by the way, is one of the roughest ones that Morgan has ever seen.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I mean, I have to ask now that we're here, Sachi, what is your relationship to gossip?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
The freshman reporters still haven't quite nailed the concept of interviewing or semicolons or punctuation in general. It's the kind of close where Morgan and Robbie and the rest of the editors are cracking open Mike's hard lemonade in the newspaper offices before proofreading even begins.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And to top it off, the editor-in-chief can't host the close party that week because their parents are in town. So Morgan and Robbie get roped into offering up their apartment at the last minute. So as soon as the paper is shipped, Morgan and Robbie run home to get ready. They started drinking early enough that they're both in great moods by the time the party officially starts.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And they're importantly young enough that Mike's hard lemonade doesn't give them an immediate hangover. So by the time it's in a full swing a few hours later, Morgan has basically all but forgotten about the improper punctuation she just had to deal with. And everyone's having a great time. They're all enjoying the big boot couch. Someone brought edibles.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
The beer pong game has just reached death match territory. And Morgan's favorite party song, Your Love is My Drug by Kesha, has just come on. And then a hush falls over the room. Just as Kesha is singing, Do I Make Your Heart Beat Like an 808 Drum, into the party walks none other than Kobe, who was very much not invited.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You know, maybe pyromania is calling you in a different life. I think so. But Morgan doesn't. Morgan doesn't even really have a chance to think of what she would do because Kobe immediately just beelines towards her. Shoves a bottle of two buck chuck at her as like a housewarming gift and then says, I fucking knew you had my couch.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Morgan starts like sputtering out a sentence that's halfway between I don't know what you're talking about and what are you doing here? But before she can get a fully coherent sentence out, Kobe storms across the apartment, through the living room with the big picture window with Southern exposure, right past the big blue couch, and right into Morgan's bedroom. What?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So one thing I forgot to mention about Morgan Robbie's apartment is that Morgan has not just one couch, but two couches. She has a little floral padded love seat in a corner of her room. And Morgan has had this since she was a child.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So when she sees Kobe pointing at her love seat with this smug expression of triumph on his face, it takes a moment for her to comprehend what exactly is going on here.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And what exactly is happening is Kobe making a fool of himself because despite how adamant he was about the return of his couch, Kobe clearly has no idea what the couch that he owns looked like, despite it being in his living room for a whole school year.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Morgan starts laughing so loudly that everyone at the party who had been pretending not to watch this scene turns around and fully stops pretending to not watch this scene. And through laughter, Morgan's like, Kobe, you're an idiot. And Kobe's like, and you're a thief. That's my couch. Morgan's like, I've had this love seat since I was a child. You can check the bottom of the cushion.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
It says property of Morgan in my childhood handwriting. And so Kobe checks the bottom of the cushion and he's like, you planted that. You knew I was coming.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And at this point, Morgan's head is just like starting to hurt from holding in her laughter as she just watches Kobe like pull the love seat away from the wall, like just inspect every single element of this love seat to ascertain his ownership of it. And meanwhile, all of her friends have piled onto the actual couch in the living room so that Kobe can see as little of it as possible.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Robbie is hiding in a corner somewhere so that his face won't give it away. What do you do now? This man is adamant that this loveseat is his.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Morgan is waiting for Kobe's attention to finally turn towards the couch that she actually did steal. But it never does because Kobe is like dead set to write that this loveseat is the missing couch in question. So much so that he refuses to leave.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Until Morgan furnishes proof of her longtime ownership of the love seat, which she finally does after digging through like a photo album, which contains a photo of her childhood bedroom that shows the love seat. At this point, Morgan's like, get the fuck out of my apartment, bozo. And Kobe looks a little mutinous. He looks like he's going to put up a fight.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
But then other members of the newspaper start sort of like quietly chiming in like, dude, come on, you're ruining the vibe. You're ruining the vibe. And in his heart, Kobe is a coward. And so with the sort of mumble, this isn't the last you'll hear from me, he takes back his two-buck chuck from Morgan and leaves the party. Sachi, that's basically the end of our story. How are you feeling?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Who do you think is the bigger criminal here? Morgan, who actually stole something, or Kobe, who just sucked and has a really bad memory?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I thought you might. Well, I do have a couple of follow-ups from my friend who submitted this story. Do you want to hear them? Yes, yes, yes, yes. They wrote that around six months after Kobe did his big couch inspection, he was caught cheating on his new girlfriend with her best friend. And Morgan sends him one single text to the effect of, heard you got caught banging so-and-so on a couch.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Too bad it wasn't your couch, which is in my living room, you piece of shit.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
They also told us that the big, beautiful couch has remained an important part of the decor at the student newspaper, where it now resides in the little office space where they are closing the newspaper. So now it is low-key a biohazard. So the couch does end up becoming scary, which you expected from the beginning.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You can follow me on all social media at HeyDNA, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Rix and Jay Tolviera. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Dujon-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors Business Guys. Alex Ujong-Loughlin is Defector's supervising producer.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Tom Leigh is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Catherine Xu, Brandi Jensen, Louise Pais-Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You should definitely get credit for that, to be clear. Thank you. Unfortunately, we go through a rigorous legal process.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Y'all, we're back. You're listening to the very first episode of season eight, and I might be biased, but I feeling this season is shaping up to be pretty damn good.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You wake up in the morning. You're like, I look particularly stacked today.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah, you have the rare honor of giving us a piece of gossip that we could not air, but a little birdie told me that you have some airable gossip for me.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Can I tell you my experience of this moment? Yeah. Yeah. So I get on the train. It's very early for me. I know this is a morning workout based on how out of it I was. I look up and I'm pretty sure I'd already seen your cover on Instagram. And so I saw the book first and I was just like, oh my God, someone has a galley of Sachi's book already. The street team is really out here. That's incredible.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
And then I look up further and I'm like, oh, my God, it's Sachi. I haven't seen her in months. And then I thought this is going to be hilarious.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
If you haven't tuned in in a while, you might be thinking, this bitch doesn't sound like Kelsey. And you would be right. I am very much not Kelsey. At the end of season seven, normal gossip underwent a peaceful transition of power. And well, I'm the captain now. If you'd like more details on the transition and our feelings around them, go listen to the finale of season seven.
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The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You could have summoned me. I feel like whenever you hold your book in public and you're reading it, I'll just appear on a corner. No, but I'm worried.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Oh. Meanwhile, I was like, this is exactly what I would do if I had just gotten the galley of my book. I would also be reading it on the train.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah. I love that conversation being like, I can't wait to get a Gali Asaji's book and we're going to go work out together. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That was beautiful. I love that gossip. I love that I was privy to that gossip. Yeah. Oh, great. Are you ready to hear some gossip from me? Yes. Yes. All right. Our story today takes place in the late aughts. Think the beginning of the Obama era. Think electric feel by MGMT playing at every party. Parties where the girls are wearing knee-high boots and shirts with vertical stripes.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
These are parties where the boys have all made Joseph Gordon-Levitt's character in 500 Days of Summer their entire personality without realizing that he is the villain in that movie. Think like American Apparel, Chunky Bangs, Shutter Shades, Warren unironically. Are you with me? Yeah. It looks like you're having some flashbacks. Where were you during this era?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
I'm going to be so briefly vulnerable here since I know a lot of you skipped this part. And I'm going to say that stepping into the host chair of Normal Gossip is literally a dream come true for me. I'm not going to lie. I'm a little bit nervous. I've been a fan of this show since it launched, which means I know I have got some big and very cute shoes to fill.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
That is a very important element. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The early aughts.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
So our friend of a friend, Morgan, is in college during this era at a liberal arts university in the Pacific Northwest. It's the sort of school where there is no football team. But on any given night, you could find between five and ten shady little bands doing Mumford and Sons cosplay in the basement of a coffee shop. Luckily for our girl Morgan, she loves Mumford & Sons. She loves ModCloth.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
She loves wearing huge headbands over her hair. She's the kind of girl who might start an aesthetic Tumblr dedicated to the color blue that low-key becomes a little famous in the aesthetic Tumblr blog community.
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The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
Yeah. Our story begins at the end of Morgan's sophomore year of college. And our girl is ready for summer. She has a sweet internship lined up for a digital publication that would collapse 10 years later.
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
But we're not there yet. We're in the late aughts when people felt lucky to get an unpaid internship at mike.com and dreamed of working for BuzzFeed. No one had ever heard the words pivot to video. So Morgan's coasting high.
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The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
She's done with her finals, and in a few hours, she'll be putting the finishing touches on this year's final edition of the student newspaper, where she has just been named the incoming deputy editor. We are both graduates of journalism school, which means I'm sure we both have strong opinions on student publications. Please hold forth. What was the publishing ecosystem of your college like?
Normal Gossip
The Couch and the Fuckboy with Scaachi Koul
You can't see me, but I'm pumping this right now.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
I'm getting the vibe that you would be a great counselor, Camp Gondor. Yeah, you're giving me great ideas for the summer. Jeremiah is giving this tour guide and he's like, here's the cabin. There's the lake. That's the mess hall. Normal camp stuff. Then he's like, this is the computer lab. The kids are only allowed in there for an hour a week. An hour a week? Oh, my God.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
These kids are going to die. Jeremiah is like, that field is for practicing archery. That field is for swordplay. He shows Ash where the cape closet is and where they store the stockpile of SPF 75 for their very pale campers. Jeremiah's like, here's where the EpiPens are. We have a lot of kids with allergies here. If the younger kids want ponies, here's where the broomsticks are at.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Oh, that's so gentle. Jeremiah also clues Ashen on all like the rules and lore of Camp Gondor. Jeremiah is like the king and queen were a little overconfident in their ability to repair things. So stuff's a little janky. And he's like, there's something else you should know. Oh, my God. The showers can suddenly go ice cold without warning. The beds creak more than you would really like them to.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Sometimes they even creak when no one's near them. Mm-hmm.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
ash is like what and jeremiah kind of just rolls his eyes and it's like yeah honestly it's a really good idea for you to keep an eye out for stuff like that we have a lot of overactive imaginations around here oh my god is he wait was he like larping in this moment was he like there's it's kind of haunted but i don't know like almost like trying to do improv a little bit um i hope so
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Because he continues to explain that like a lot of camps, Camp Gondor has just a bunch of camp superstitions. There's a door in the mess hall that no one uses because it's bad luck. And Jeremiah's like, I'm pretty sure the door was just broken and they didn't feel like repairing it. But also, I don't believe in any of that shit. But also, don't use the door. It's not worth the trouble.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Would you ask for any more information about these strange happenings? Um...
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
on Friday, May 9th, and you want to guarantee you get a ticket, you can buy your tickets early in an exclusive presale if you go to normalgossiplive.com and use the promo code Gossip25. If you're listening after that, have no fear. Tickets are on sale to the public at normalgossiplive.com starting Friday, May 9th. This is my very first live tour.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Yeah. Ash is unfortunately too caught up in how cute Jeremiah is to really be paying much attention to anything specific he's saying. What Ash does here are the rules Jeremiah said that Prince Wharton instituted for summer staff when he took over. The rules are as follows. No drinking booze on campgrounds. No personalization of the uniforms.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And most importantly, staff members are absolutely not allowed to date each other.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
in theory like I do get it but like once you tell people like you're not allowed to date that then you're just gonna develop crushes on everyone that you work with I'm sorry like just don't even have the rule you might as well encourage them to date each other because then they won't want to so Ash isn't a fan of any of these rules but especially that last one because Jeremiah only gets cuter as the days go on okay
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Whenever any of the younger campers have nightmares, Jeremiah is the first counselor they go to. Oh, my God. That's so sweet. Jeremiah's hair is growing floppier by the day. Oh, my God. Ash is in so, so deep. Yeah. Oh, there's just one problem with this crush. Two problems if you count Prince Warren's rule about staff not dating each other.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
But for that to even be a problem, Ash needs to know whether or not Jeremiah is even queer. Which brings us to a third problem. The story takes place in 2007. Oh, my God. Okay. Okay. Ash had only recently come out himself and has no idea how to ask someone if they are also queer.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
So, it's 2007. You're Ash. You're pretty sure a cute boy might be interested in you, but you need to be absolutely certain before you make a move. Yeah, okay. How would you go about being absolutely certain?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Ash is like 65% sure that Jeremiah is flirting with him. Jeremiah is always the first to volunteer to help Ash carry the heavy wooden shields back to the storage shed at the end of the day. The other day they were practicing swordplay and when Jeremiah corrected Ash's form, he was just like a little bit touchier than he needed to be.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Like, think that pottery scene from Ghost, but with a wooden sword. Oh my God. Okay. Love. Do you think Jeremiah is flirting? Is it possible that this might be in Ash's head?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
That's so real. Luckily, Ash has an incredible opportunity to gather some more evidence. Okay. So one week, Jeremiah's co-counselor is out sick with a stomach bug during their campers assigned one hour a week in the computer lab. So when Jeremiah asked if anyone would be interested in helping him keep track of his campers, Ash jumps up just a little bit too fast.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
It is a year first for me, and I am so, so excited to take this show on the road and meet some of y'all. That is all the housekeeping business I got for today's show. Now on to the main event today. I'm so, so excited to be joined by Rebecca Jennings. Rebecca is a features writer at New York Magazine, and she's got a book coming out on May 27th that is all about one of my favorite topics.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
The only reason he hesitates at all before volunteering is because of Cody. Have you ever met like a really precocious child?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
That's real. How would you describe the vibe of like a super precocious child?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Yeah. So Cody is one of Jeremiah's campers. And before there was the Master of Spiders in Game of Thrones, there was Cody. Cody is 12, but he is way older than his years. He is an only child, so he has spent a little bit too much time with adults. Yep, yep, yep, yep. He's been going to Camp Gondor since he was nine years old.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
He was such a talented D&D player that he was allowed to start a year earlier than was technically allowed to. I love this kid. I hope that if I ever have kids that I'm a weird D&D prodigy. I will say his parents also made a sizable donation at Camp Gondor that year. All of this could have made Cody obnoxious, but he's more of a chaotic good on the alignment chart.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
The counselors have like a love-hate relationship with him. Mostly love because he's like pretty funny and he's so charismatic that if he's on their side, then he makes it easier to kind of like corral the other campers. Mm-hmm. Sometimes hate because it is very clear that Cody loves knowing more about what's going on at camp than the counselors. He loves knowing all the gossip.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And Cody also has a tendency to just go a little too far sometimes. Oh, my God. What kind of obsession do you think a child like this would have?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Cody's current obsession is like paranormal shit. Okay. He has started spending his designated hour in the computer lab researching the history of the campgrounds, looking for stories of campers who have gone missing.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
He is so deep into this that he has brought the rest of his cabin into this obsession. So that's what they spend their hour at the computer lab doing. Do you think it's wise to let children with overactive imaginations look for dead children?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Ash is just happy that they are all quietly occupied because this gives him time to chat up Jeremiah. What kind of questions would you be asking if you're trying to figure out if someone liked you?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Ash asks all of these and more. He's asking about celebrity crushes. That's a good one. He thinks he might be getting somewhere because Jeremiah has just admitted to being more of a Legolas guy than an Aragorn guy, which I feel like is a clear sign. That means you're gay. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But just as Ash feels like he's getting somewhere, Cody finds a Ouija board. Oh, my God. Okay.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Love Island. Rebecca's book is called Be the Bombshell, and it's a cheeky, laugh out loud playbook to navigating singlehood by embracing the absolute 10 out of 10, proper fit, total bombshell that you are.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Do you let these children play with the Ouija board? Hell yeah.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
I don't know. I just don't fuck with ghosts on such a deep level that I'm just like, I will not be involved in the horror movie because you would not have even gotten me to the house in the woods. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it. Yeah, we get that. Yeah. Jeremiah just sort of rolls his eyes because he's chill. He's like, yeah, sure, whatever.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And Ash is ready to do whatever Jeremiah is doing, obviously. So they watch as at first the campers mostly use the Ouija board to spell out butts and fart. See, that's beautiful. But eventually Cody's like, knock it off. We have to take this seriously. Cody asked Jeremiah to lower the lights. Oh, my God. And Jeremiah's like, oh, my God. Yeah, sure. And he turns down the lights.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
When he rejoins Ash, he stands close enough that their arms are brushing. Oh, my God. And he speaks low enough that Ash has to lean in even closer to hear him. Oh, my God. And Jeremiah's like, are you afraid of ghosts? And Ash was raised Catholic, so he's like, a little bit. And then Jeremiah smiles and is like, don't worry, I'll protect you.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Ash almost passes away. Aww. Aww. He's like, there's going to be a ghost on this property. It's me. I'm dead right now. That's so cute. He's safe from having to respond by Cody calling for silence in the room. And then Cody says, if anyone is here, please tell us your name. It's quiet for a moment. And the little triangle thingy, which I've learned is called the planchette.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
It starts moving before traveling to the letter J. Okay. And then it drifts to the letter I before finally landing on M. Jim. Okay. And it's quiet for a second. And then Cody whispers, Jim, there's a ghost here and his name is Jim. And then as of confirming that, the little planchette moves to yes. Oh, my God. There's silence for a moment and then one of the campers starts to cry.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And that's when Jeremiah's like, okay, I think it's time to go to bed. The crying camper is like, but what about the ghost? And Jeremiah's like, there is no ghost. And then he's like, ghosts only haunt places where they've died. And no one's died here, right? Huge news! Our Dowager Queen, Kelsey McKinney, wrote a New York Times best-selling book of beautiful essays about gossip.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
It's called You Didn't Hear This From Me, mostly true notes on gossip, and I am obsessed. It's about how we use gossip to learn about ourselves. It's about Britney Spears and Weston Caleb and Gilgamesh and Picasso. It's so fun. And not to be biased, but I kind of think it's pretty excellent. It's out right now in a hardback and a super sexy audiobook, which Kelsey narrates.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Wow. You guessed my first question, which is what is your relationship to gossip? It's almost like this question has been asked before.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
You can buy wherever you buy your books. You can also go to KelseyMcKinneyBook.com to see all retailers. Luckily, this is not Asher Jeremiah's immediate problem because they have the next day off. Okay. Okay, great. Every week, the staff gets a randomly assigned day off. And this is the first time since camp started four weeks ago that Ash and Jeremiah are assigned to the same day.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
So they squish six people into a sedan and they head off to go camping for a night. They have cases of PBR. They have two handles of fireball. Around 2007. This is beautiful. Someone brings out a handful of very badly rolled joints. This is their day off without children. This is the only time they're allowed to drink. And these 20-somethings are making it count. Yes. Oh, that's so beautiful.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
They're taking shots on the hour. Every hour. When's the last time you had Fireball? Probably years.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Yeah, yeah. I have a secret fondness for Fireball because I love a sweet little drink. I support you. Shots should be more fun. And what's more fun than Fireball?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Exactly. So by Ash's third shot of Fireball, he has finally worked up enough courage to join Jeremiah on his blanket. The conversation turns to that Summer's staff D&D campaign. And this is Ash's first real campaign of this magnitude with some very skilled players. So he's a little bit intimidated. And he doesn't really feel like he's done that well so far.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And Jeremiah is the type to help. Jeremiah is patiently explaining the difference between history and investigation. Okay. Love. The sun is setting and they're sitting by the fire. Jeremiah pulls out a little red velvet bag from his book bag and inside is his favorite set of dice. They're gold plated and they're like glinting in the light of the fire.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Jeremiah hands Ash a 20-sided die and his hands are warm. And when Ash looks up, Jeremiah is staring deeply into his eyes. So Ash squeezes Jeremiah's die for luck. And Ash goes in for a kiss. And he's met halfway by Jeremiah, who's also going in for a kiss. Oh, yay. Oh, my God. That's so sweet. Ash is like floating on a cloud.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Later that night, Jeremiah picks up his sleeping bag and deliberately brings it over next to ashes and like squashes himself down next to him. So they're next to each other while they go to sleep. They fall asleep holding hands. Oh my God. Jesus Christ. Yeah. That's beautiful. The next morning, Ash and Jeremiah are trying to be as discreet as possible.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
They're both in their early 20s, though, so I really doubt it's discreet at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no one says anything, and Ash is honestly pretty sure he saw another set of counselors sneaking a kiss before they head back to camp. Yeah, they're fine. Ash feels like his secret's pretty safe. Do you agree with him?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
The first moment Ash starts to get just like a little bit worried is when they get back to the campgrounds. And it's because the vibes are decidedly off. Uh-oh. It's kind of eerily quiet for a camp full of children, even nerdy children. The kids they do see are acting pretty fucking weird, which is saying a lot.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Some of them are scurrying between buildings like they're being hunted. Oh, my God. Okay. Are they just LARPing? Well, a lot of them seem to be staring at Ash and Jeremiah. And just then, Prince Warden comes out of the administration building and he makes a beeline for Ash and Jeremiah. Uh-oh. How would you be feeling?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
I think that's real. And I would say that is you empathizing with the subject of the gossip. Yeah, this makes me an empath. Exactly. Let's flip it around. Let's reverse it. Thank you so much.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Prince Warden is like, did you two dummies tell the kids that someone died here? Oh, uh-oh. Apparently in the 24 hours they have been gone, rumors of Jim the Ghost had spread across the camp like wildfire. Jim the Ghost. That's so good. Ugh.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
None of this had been helped by Cody, who had snuck back into the computer lab after the Ouija board session and come out with evidence of a child named James Hawkins disappearing from the campground. Oh, my God. Cody. At first, Ash is like, oh, thank God that's it. I thought I was about to be fired. Yeah. For canoodling. Yeah.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And then the Prince Warden, Ash, is like, wouldn't your family know if someone had gone missing from the campgrounds? Oh. And then Ash is like, wait, did someone go missing from the campgrounds? And Prince Warden is like, I don't know. The kid was at the camp that existed before my parents bought this place. So they don't know anything about it. Oh, my God.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And then he's like, you two made this problem. You have to fix it. None of the kids slept last night. And if you want to call their parents, pick them up early. And it doesn't exactly look like the prince slept either. But Ash is like, this is not the time for me to mention that. Oh, my God. Yeah. How would you handle the situation?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
This is a good plan. Jeremiah goes to track down Cody so he can see this ghost evidence before he really starts to figure anything out. And Ash heads to the prop house to help put together something that might tire the kids out so they'll sleep that night. That's smart. He manages to put together an impromptu obstacle course.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
So by the time Jeremiah comes and finds him, Ash is like sweaty and itchy from being covered in sawdust and grass. He forgets all of that, though, as soon as Jeremiah says hi to him. Aww. It's only been like four hours since they had last seen each other. But Ash says it felt like an eternity. Oh, Ash. Ash is so gentle. So wholesome. Jeremiah's like, okay, we have a problem. Uh-oh.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
He's like, low-key, the evidence Cody has is kind of convincing.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Jeremiah's like, Cody showed me a website he found about the old camp that mentions this kid, James Hawkins, going missing in 1934.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Exactly. Jimmy Hawkins. Yeah, yeah. Ash is like, I'm sorry, what? And there's just like a little bit of fear in his voice. Jeremiah's like, wait, do you actually believe in ghosts? And Ash is like, I don't know. Okay. I haven't seen enough evidence either way. Jeremiah kind of smirks. And he's like, remember, I told you I protect you.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And then he holds hands with Ash. Hmm. Ash is ready to vomit at how cute this is when they're interrupted by a... behind them. Uh-oh. We're almost at the end of the story. How are you feeling?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Ash and Jeremiah turn to see none other than Cody standing there with a shit eating grin on his face. Oh, my God. He has blackmail evidence. Ash feels like he's been electrocuted and not in like a cute romantic way. His heart is pounding. He doesn't even know what to say. And Cody is the first one to speak. Cody's like, don't worry. And then Cody winks. And then he's like, I won't tell anyone.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And then Ash told us Cody swans out of the room. He's like, bitch, cut your ass.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Well, it sounds like your relationship with gossip is changing over time that at first it felt kind of just like this is fun. And now is it do you think you're like at a more public time in your life? Like, do you think there is more in your life to gossip about than maybe previously? Yeah.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Jeremiah is immediately like, don't worry, it's going to be okay. But he says it in that tone where you're clearly trying to convince yourself. Ash is like, mm-hmm. And then he's like, let's not get caught again. Yeah. Yeah. So Ash spends the next few hours before dinner in a state of just like rising panic. The vibes have only gotten worse. The kids are freaking out about Jim the ghost.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
The counselors are freaking out because the kids are freaking out. And Prince Warden has spent the afternoon on the phone with Exorcist, which has done absolutely nothing to calm anyone down. That's so funny that he was like, we need to hire a professional. Yeah. He's like Ghostbusters. Yeah, yeah.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Ash is down to eat in the mess hall just as Prince Warden enters and he motions for everyone to quiet down. And then Prince Warden is like, I've received a lot of concerned calls from parents. They're asking me to bring in a trauma therapist. Oh, my God. Yeah. Prince Warden is like, if nights like last night continued where half the camp doesn't sleep, computer time will be revoked for everyone.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Uh-oh. The entire mess hall is just full of horrified gasps. And then finally, the prince is like, if anyone here has any information about anything, please share immediately. Oh, no. Cody, don't. Don't do it. It's quiet for a second. And then Cody stands and is like, I have something to share. Oh, my God. It's a little shit. I am no longer on Team Cody.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Yeah, Ash immediately starts to panic. He's looking around for Jeremiah, whose eyes are like as big as saucers. Cody's like, I know something no one else here knows. And then Cody looks at Jeremiah. Oh, no. Ash's heart is in his ass. And then Cody's like, I planted the Ouija board and I lied to Jeremiah. The website I showed him is fake. I made it. There's no ghost.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Well, apparently Cody had decided to take his Dungeon Master game to a whole new level. Oh my god, he's doing LARPing! He had been planting clues since the previous summer, including the Ouija board. Oh, my God. He had spent his free time during the school year making graphic design his passion and made the very convincing website that mentioned James Hawkins. Oh, my God.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
You can maybe see why Cody's parents had wanted him to get outside for the summer. No, keep him in there.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
You can also maybe see why Camp Gondor received a very large donation from Cody's parents a few weeks after what everyone came to refer to as the Cody incident.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
I know. What is he doing right now? I really need to know what he's doing. I mean, my fear is that he's working at like Doge or something, but I'm not going to put that on him.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Well, that's the end of our story. Do you think Cody did anything wrong?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
It's a LARP camp. No, you're right. I think that the rules should have been more explicit about how far to take LARPing.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
But first, I have some postscripts for you. Oh, my God, I would love to. So Cody was true to his word and never said anything about the hand holding witness. Ash and Jeremiah had a long distance relationship for a year while Ash finished his senior year of college and eventually got married in a gorgeous themed wedding. What?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Yes. I can't do math. Girl, me neither. I can't do math on the spot. That sounds right, though. If they were 20-ish in 2007. Yeah. Yeah, in their 40s. Oh, my God. That is so sweet. Cody, after signing a contract promising to never run another Stanford prison experiment on his fellow campers... Came back summer after summer and eventually became a counselor. Oh, my God. He's perfect.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And Camp Gondor got an infusion of new life and money after the Game of Thrones boon in the late aughts. The water and the showers is hot now. Oh, my God. I'm so happy. That's the end of our story, Rebecca. Oh, my God.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
I asked for gossip that was secretly a romance novel and our listeners definitely delivered on this one.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at Normal Gossip.
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LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
You can follow me on all social media at HeyDNA, H-E-Y-Y-D-N-A-E. This podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley-Rix and Jay Tolviera. The co-creators and dowager queens of Normal Gossip are Alex Dujon-Loughlin and Kelsey McKinney. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors Business Guys. Alex Sujong Laughlin is Defector's supervising producer.
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LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Tom Leigh is our editor-in-chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find in normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Catherine Chu, Brandi Jensen, Louise Pays Pumar, Chris Thompson, Jasper Wang, Sabrina Embler, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford, and Ray Rado for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Rebecca, I think we might share some of the same head. I understand exactly where you're coming from in that I find it very hard to be happy which is something I've talked about with my therapist. But the hardest thing in the world, quite frankly, is to actually just embody being happy and people around you being happy because my little rat brain is just like something's going wrong.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And if the actual events aren't going wrong, then something's going wrong with the people involved. And it's that they hate me because I have expressed a need and an emotion that Yes. Yeah. Yep.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to episode five of season eight, y'all. We are somehow halfway through the season. Can you believe it? I can't.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
I mean, speaking of being a perfect gossip, a little birdie told me that you have some gossip for me.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
That is incredible. Both that she got away with it. Yeah. That she tried something new. I know. And that this probably created gossip for that community for a while. Oh, totally. Where it was like, who clogged the toilet at this party?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Well, that was some phenomenal gossip. And now I have some for you. Are you ready?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Today, our friend of a friend is named Ash. And there are three important things to know about Ash. The first is that he has just finished his junior year studying fine arts with a specialization in ceramics. The second, which is related to the first, is that he's having a hard time finding a summer job.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
I know that strikes fear into some of y'all's heart because it means the end of the season is approaching. But I've got some great news for those of you who want even more normal gossip, which I hope is all of you. This fall, Sierra and I are going on tour for the first time this September. We are bringing normal gossip to nine different cities. We are stopping in New York.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
The third and the most important fact about Ash is that Ash is so hyper aware that this is his last summer, that this is the summer before his senior year of college, before he has to be an adult, before he has to worry about taxes. He's like, this is it. Do you remember this summer?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
A simpler time? Yeah, yeah. Well, Ash is determined to have a capital A adventure that hopefully does not include bedbugs. He has spent every summer since he was 15 working at the Dairy Queen in his hometown, which is fun in its own way, but it doesn't give, like, capital A adventure. Which is how Ash finds himself applying to a bunch of overnight summer camp counselor jobs.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Our friend or friend told us, quote, it felt like that was the best way for me to get paid like a grown up while being able to live out the feral child summer of my dreams. Love that choice. OK, what do you think of our friend or friend's logic here?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Same. I love parent trap. Yeah. Yeah. So Ash applies to at least a dozen camps, but he has no child care experience, which means he isn't a super qualified candidate. The one camp Ash hears back from is called Camp Gondor. And Camp Gondor is an eight week long summer LARPing camp for kids from age 10 to 16. Yeah, for Lord of the Rings, I assume. It's a fantasy camp.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
But for our listeners who might be unfamiliar, could you tell me what LARPing is?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Exactly. And as you correctly guessed, and is perhaps obvious from the name, which for legal reasons is spelled G-O-N-E-D-O-O-R. Oh, okay. Jesus. We are not getting sued by Tolkien here. But Camp Gondor isn't just a LARPing camp. It is specifically a fantasy LARPing camp. So there are courses on archery and swordplay.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
There are afternoons spent learning elvish and how to identify plants with medicinal qualities. Oh, my God. I'm so jealous. I'm jealous of Ash. I want to do this so bad. This is basically a camp for parents trying to get their video game addicted kids outdoors and doing a physical activity.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Exactly. Ash doesn't have any history with fantasy LARPing. His specific form of nerdery comes in the form of Greek mythology. But he feels like there is enough adjacency, you know, like swords, gods, gay type shit, for Ash to get read in fairly quickly. Whoever was reading the applications that summer was like, yeah, close enough. Yeah, this is who you want at your fantasy LARPing camp.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Thank you so much for watching. You can buy your tickets right now in an exclusive 48-hour presale if you go to normalgossiplive.com and use the promo code Gossip25 before 10 a.m. local time on Friday, May 9th. I know I just tossed a lot of numbers at you, so let me say it again. If you happen to be listening to this episode before 10 a.m.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
You want Ash, the Greek mythology guy. And Ash is offered a position as an assistant prop master for Camp Gondor. Do you think LARPing as a camp counselor at LARPing camp is a good idea?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
He's included in the price. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, some important things to know about Camp Gondor. It was founded 50 years ago by a couple that we would be referring to as the King and Queen. And the King and Queen poured their hearts and souls into Camp Gondor. They're in their 70s now and slowing down.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
And a few years back, they turned the day-to-day operations of Camp Gondor over to their son, the Prince. Oh, my God. The prince does not give a single fuck about his parents' freaky little role-playing hobby. Oh, no. The prince also got his MBA from Wharton.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Yeah, the prince unironically identifies with Kendall from Succession. Okay. Okay. And Camp Gondor makes pretty good money. So he's fine running it.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
Someone call me. So this is the situation our friend or friend is entering, succession at Camp Gondor. Do you have any concerns for him?
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
So to be fair to Ash, he didn't know about the royal family of Gondor until he arrived on the campgrounds in early June. He has just finished a self-administered crash course in fantasy novels. He has reread Fellowship of the Ring for the first time since he was 10. He's purchased a set of dice and he has brushed up on his paper mache skills.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
So when Ash arrives at the beautiful lakeside campgrounds of Camp Gondor, he feels as prepared as he possibly can be. He studied and he is ready for his capital A adventure, which is great because almost immediately after arriving at Gondor, Ash is introduced to Jeremiah. Hmm. Jeremiah is 23. He is a counselor for the 13-year-old cabin.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
This is his fourth year as a counselor at Camp Gondor, so he's extremely knowledgeable, but also super chill about it. Ash told us that Jeremiah was tall and lanky in that adorable gangly way. And that as soon as Ash saw Jeremiah galumphing across the field with his long legs like Shaggy from Scooby-Doo, I was a goner. And that's a direct quote.
Normal Gossip
LARP Camp with Rebecca Jennings
The tomcat? Yeah, he was so hot. He was. He was. These are all phenomenal choices. So Jeremiah is assigned to give Ash a tour. And Jeremiah is not just a pretty face. He is also a phenomenal tour guide. What kind of stuff do you think a camp like this would have?