Matt Abrahams
Appearances
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Many of us, when we're put on the spot, we want to give the best answer. We want to be the most interesting person in small talk. And that puts a tremendous amount of pressure on ourselves and makes it actually less likely we will achieve those goals. So we have to switch from perfection to connection. It's about structure, it's about focus, and it's about accessibility.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
It helps you see better, but each step starts with the letter I. The first is information. It's the objective reason I'm giving you the feedback. Imagine you're a manager and you have an employee who consistently shows up late and unprepared to meetings. I might start the feedback by saying, this is now the third time you've been over five minutes late for the meeting. That's information.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
It's level setting. It's here's what the feedback is on. It's objective. Anybody attending the meeting would say, yep, that person's late and it's the third time. The second I is impact. What does this mean for you, the giver of the feedback? And this is where we use I language. I feel, I think, I believe. When I use you language, that sounds accusatory and likely makes you defensive.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So I might say, I feel you're not prioritizing this meeting the same way the rest of us are. The third I is the invitation. I might ask it as a question. I might say, what can we do to help make sure you show up on time to the next meeting? That's an invitation as formed as a question. I could make an invitation that is a declarative sentence.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
I'd like for you to attend the next meeting five minutes early. And then finally, the final I, the fourth I is implication. These are consequences. They can be positive or negative. If you show up on time to the next meeting, we'll finish this project earlier and get a new really cool one. Or I might say, if you don't show up on time next time, we might have to remove you from the team.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So it's information, impact, invitation, and implications. And if you remember the four I's, not only does it package up the feedback in a way the recipient can understand it, It also helps you as the giver to prioritize what you say so that the feedback is clearer. We have all been the recipient of feedback that's vague, and we're trying to figure out, what do I do? What was actually asked of me?
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So having it structured this way as an invitation can help you and the recipient.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Mm-hmm.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Yeah. So communication is a two-way street, right? There's a very simple but famous model of communication that's called the transactional model. There's a sender and a receiver, and the sender has to get the message to the receiver in a way that they understand it. So it's not just about broadcasting, it's about helping people comprehend. And there's several things that help do that.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
But what that meant is I was always dealing with spontaneous speaking. And my latest work is really all about how to be a better spontaneous speaker. And it's something that I've been developing, some because of my last name and some because of circumstances I found myself in, really did initiate this interest in this notion of how do we speak better in the moment.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
One we've already talked about, and that is the structuring of a message. Our brains are not wired to receive lists. We don't remember lists well, bullets kill, don't kill people with bullet points. You know, in fact, I'd ask you, Stephanie, how many items do you need to have on a shopping list before you actually have to write it down? For me, it's three.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
If I have to go to the grocery store and get more than three things, I have to write it down or I'll forget something. Our brains just aren't wired for lists. So structure helps. The other thing we have to do to help is we have to focus our messages. I believe the most precious commodity we have in the world today is attention.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
One of the reasons people don't comprehend, remember, or act on our messages is they're being bombarded with so many. So we have to focus our messages to make them clear and concise so our audience understands it. So we need to make sure that we package them up through structure, but also make them incredibly relevant and goals focused.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
If they're focused on a goal and relevant to our audience, they're more likely to understand and comprehend what we're saying. And the final thing we have to think about is whenever we speak, we suffer from the curse of knowledge and the curse of passion. We know a lot about what we're speaking on and we're really passionate about it.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
We need to make sure that we translate our messages so our audience understand it. We often will use jargon and acronyms and terminology that our audiences don't necessarily understand. So we have to translate it so that they can really appreciate it. So it's about structure, it's about focus, and it's about accessibility. That's what helps people comprehend our messages.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
There are lots of circles around my coin. Thank you. Yes, I grew up in a family of people who talk all the time, so I had to learn to be louder and more focused. I grew up in a family of teachers, so I've always been focused on that. But yes, martial arts has played a big part of my life. I've studied martial arts for over four decades, many different styles. I've taught martial arts.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
I still teach martial arts. So yes, it's had a huge impact on my life. And quite frankly, I think everybody should have some physical outlet that helps them explore the issues of their lives in a different way. You know, I have chosen a very cerebral profession where we do research, we teach, we talk about, we discuss, we debate.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And I think it's important to have some physical outlet where you can still deal with some of those same issues. And maybe it's hiking, maybe it's a musical instrument, maybe it's doing something else with your hands. But really for me, martial arts has been really, really important.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And if you think about it, most of our communication... is spontaneous. It's not planned. Somebody asks a question, ask for feedback, you're making small talk. And so we need to learn how to do this better so we can be more effective in these circumstances.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Right. So the martial arts for me helps me be helps me be more present oriented. You know, people see the martial arts as just physical and you watch these things on TV where people are just pummeling each other. And that's maybe one tiny portion of the martial arts.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
But martial arts are very spiritual, very connected, very, very psychological endeavor, as is, I believe, any sport at a certain level. And so for me, it helps me be more present oriented. It helps me when I'm practicing to just be in the moment, gets me in touch with my body and my breath. When you're working with another person, let me tell you, the feedback comes in lots of ways.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
But in the martial arts, it's very direct and sometimes quite painful. And you learn from it. So it's helped me be present. It's helped me listen. And people think listening in the martial arts. You know, when you're doing what you do in the martial arts, you have to pay acute attention and you're focused and listening to how somebody moves, how they breathe, what their tendencies are.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
These are all skills that help me, I believe, in my day to day life. It also is a space where I do it for me and it's a way of recharging and revitalizing myself. So I have a whole lot of benefit that comes to me personally, just like I think anybody can find in any physical endeavor.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Excellent. Thank you for the opportunity. So I've written two books. The first book is Speaking Up Without Freaking Out. It really tries to help people find ways to manage anxiety. Everybody is different when it comes to anxiety. The one thing that is true is most people feel anxiety when speaking.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And so the book is really designed to present different options, tools, and tactics that you can use. Even though there are 50 in the book, the hope is that three or four will work for you. Not everybody responds the same way. And then the newest book, Think Faster, Talk Smarter, is all about what we started to speak on, which is how to speak better in the moment.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So the first part of the book is a methodology. It's a methodology I developed to help our Stanford MBA students, but it applies to everybody. And then the second part of the book highlights very specific situations like we talked about, feedback and small talk, but also how do you make apologies? How do you introduce yourself? How do you answer questions?
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So these are all very specific, spontaneous speaking situations that the book addresses. And then finally, the podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart. We've been on air for almost four and a half years now. We focus exclusively on communication. We're sponsored by Stanford's Graduate School of Business. 20-minute episodes where I get to interview just amazing experts in communication.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And we talk about everything from how to be persuasive, how to negotiate, how to manage conflict, how to brand yourself and actually position yourself well. Super fascinating, super fun. And I'm really excited that we've won lots of prestigious awards, but we were also nominated in a one best dog walking podcast because we're exactly 20 minutes.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Oh, even even more than that. It's like, OK, we just read the Scarlet Letter. Your turn to tell me what you think about whoever the main character was. Yeah, I was often called on first to answer questions, much to the relief of my fellow students. They were actually grateful because by the time it got to them, they had time to think and plan.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And apparently that's how long people walk their dog.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So there's one thing that's important, I think, to think about, and that is listening. Listening is actually a really important communication skill, but it's actually critical for spontaneous speaking. You know, I've talked a lot about what we do to communicate our messages out, but we also have to listen to understand better what is needed in the moment. We all don't listen that well.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
We listen just enough to get the top level of what somebody is saying. So we need to listen deeper. We need to listen for the bottom line, not the top line. We need to listen not just to what's said, but what's not said, how it's said, where it's said. And that can actually influence how we respond. I'll give you a quick example.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Imagine you and I come out of a meeting and you say, hey, Matt, how do you think that went? If I'm just listening for the top line, I say, oh, she wants feedback. And I might start diving into here are all the things we could have done better. Here are the things that weren't great. But if I would have listened more fully, I might have noticed you came out the back door, not the front door.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
You spoke more quietly than usual. You were looking down. All of this might clue me into the fact that you really don't want feedback. What you really want is support because you're not feeling that that went well. So by listening more astutely for the bottom line, I can respond better and perhaps help our relationship rather than hurting it.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
I don't know if there's a next book, but I definitely am spending a lot of time talking about listening and talking a lot about how to collaborate with people and manage through conflicts and challenges that happen.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
No, not at all.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
This was fun. I enjoyed the conversation very much. It was lovely to chat with you. Thank you. And I appreciate the opportunity.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Well, I'm certainly happy to share. I mean, my whole goal is just to help people do better in any communication circumstance. It boils down to two things. It So we have to get our mindset and approach aligned with our goals of speaking in the moment. So first, we have to manage anxiety. Anxiety looms large in all communication, but especially in spontaneous speaking.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And then we have to reframe how we see this. First and foremost, the goal we have. Many of us, when we're put on the spot, we want to do our best. job right. We want to give the best answer. We want to give great feedback. We want to be the most interesting person in small talk.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And that puts a tremendous amount of pressure on ourselves and makes it actually less likely we will achieve those goals. So we have to switch from perfection to connection. Just have the goal be connecting and conveying the information you need rather than doing it right. And by the way, there is no right way to communicate. There are better ways and worse ways.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So the first thing we have to reframe is our goal. The second thing we have to reframe is the whole interaction. Many of us see these spontaneous speaking situations as threatening, as something we have to defend against. When somebody asks us a question, we feel challenged. When somebody asks for feedback, we feel put on the spot. And yet we need to reframe those as opportunities.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
It's an opportunity to extend, to expand, to collaborate. So by reframing the goal and just the whole experience, we can do better. And then we have to think about messaging. So it's not just mindset, it's also messaging. Messaging in the moment, what can really help us is leveraging a structure. A structure provides a roadmap, a directionality.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Many of us, when we're put on the spot, we just blather. We just list information, itemize different things. And our brains are not wired for itemized information. Structure really helps. To give you an example of a structure, if you've ever watched a television ad, problem, solution, benefit is how that ad is most likely been constructed. There's a problem or challenge.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Here's a way of solving it through the product or service. And then here's the benefit. That's what a structure does. It's a logical connection of ideas. So by focusing on mindset and focusing on messaging, we can actually manage these situations very effectively and be not only less stressed, but more connected in the process.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Oh, there's so many good structures. Don't get me started. Problem, solution, benefit, as I mentioned, comparison, contrast, conclusion, past, present, future. My favorite structure in the whole world is three simple questions. What? So what? Now what? You start with the what. The what is your idea, your feedback, your update, your product or service.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
The so what is why is it important to somebody you're speaking to? What value does it bring? And then the now what is what comes next? So by leveraging a structure like this or many others, the whole second part of my new book is all about structures for different circumstances. You can actually do better. So I encourage people to find structures that work from them and then leverage it.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Now, I want to take a quick time out. I just used what, so what, now what to answer that question. I told you what the best structure was. I told you why they're important. And I encouraged everybody to find one and use it. So it's just a simple, easy way to package up information for me as a communicator. But it hopefully helps you as a listener understand it and then act on it better.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
That's the power of structure.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Thank you. Thank you. I score a point. Good.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Yeah, it's not just what goes on between the ears. It's what goes on in your body as well. So in managing anxiety around speaking, you really, again, have to take a two-pronged approach. Everything comes in twos here. You have to manage symptoms and sources. Symptoms are the things that we physiologically experience. What happens in our body? Our heart beat faster. We might get shaky.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
For me, I turn red and I blush. What happens for you, Stephanie, when you get nervous in speaking situations?
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Yeah, we feel that getting hotter. Yes, absolutely. These are very normal and natural reactions, symptoms. And then there are sources that we can deal with as well. Let's start with the symptoms. There are many things we can do. My first book was called Speaking Up Without Freaking Out. And there were 50 techniques based on academic research that can help us feel better. Let me give you just a few.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
One is to take deep belly breaths. Deep breathing tends to work for most people. By taking a deep inhalation, filling your lower abdomen. If you've ever done yoga or tai chi, it's that deep breathing. And then the key is the exhalation. You want your exhale to be longer than your inhale. And the longer your exhale is, the more impact you have.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So just taking two or three deep breaths like this slows down your heart rate, slows down your speaking rate, stops some of the shakiness, and allows your voice to be deep and resonant. When we get nervous, we breathe shallow and our voices change.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
If you get shaky, besides deep breathing, big, broad movements, moving your body forward if you're physically in front of people standing, that allows that adrenaline, which is causing the shakiness, to dissipate. And if you're like me and you, turning red or feeling hot, that's the result of your heart beating faster, your body tensing up. It's like you're exercising.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Your blood pressure is going up. And what we need to do is cool ourselves down. And a great way to do that is hold something cold in the palms of your hand. The palms of your hand are thermoregulators for your body. On a cold morning, I am certain you've held a warm cup of tea or coffee and felt it warm you up just by holding it.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
We can do the reverse by holding a cold bottle of water and it causes you to sweat less, blush less. So those are some things we can do for symptoms. Sources are the things that initiate or exacerbate our anxiety. We've talked about some of that reframing we can do in terms of connection over perfection, seeing it as an opportunity.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
A good one also is many of us are made nervous by the goal that we are trying to achieve. When you're speaking, you have a goal. My students want to get a good grade. The entrepreneurs I coach want to get funding. You might have a great idea you want people to adopt. And we're nervous that we won't achieve it. So that means we're afraid or being made afraid of something that is in the future.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And the best way to short circuit that is to become in the present. So you can do something physical. You can listen to a song or a playlist like athletes do. You can start at 100 and count backwards by a challenging number like 17s. There's a lot you can do to bring yourself in the present moment.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So by managing symptoms and sources, we can actually tame that anxiety beast and be more comfortable speaking planned or spontaneously.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Yes. So this goes back to that notion that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do our communication right. So I borrow an idea from the world of improvisation. When I did the research I did into speaking spontaneously, I looked across many fields, psychology, anthropology, neuroscience, and even improvisation. And it would probably have these wonderful sayings, dare to be dull.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
I've actually turbocharged that and encouraged people to maximize their mediocrity. By striving just to get it done rather than to do it perfectly, you actually free up more cognitive bandwidth to focus on what you're doing. Think of it this way. If I am constantly judging and evaluating everything I say, I have less bandwidth to focus on what I'm saying.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And this is why memorizing is so bad for us. When we memorize, we've created the right way to say it. And as I'm speaking, I'm constantly comparing back and forth. And that means I have less energy to focus directly on the communication that I'm trying to do.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So daring to be dull, maximizing mediocrity is all about focusing on the audience we're speaking to, that connection, and letting go of that perfection. So we're dialing down the volume on how we're internally focused, and we're actually increasing the volume on how we're externally focused. Okay.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
There's another phrase in improv that I think is so powerful for many of us when it comes to spontaneous speaking, which is do what needs to be done. Nothing more, nothing less. Many of us get in our heads and say, how do I answer this right? How do I not offend somebody? So sometimes daring to be dull, doing what needs to be done is all you need to do.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And that helps you be effective in that moment.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Okay. Yes. So that can be very challenging. So one of the main areas I talk about in the second part of the book is small talk. And small talk is one of these things where we often find ourselves in conversations that we don't want to be part of and we need to get out of them. I, on my podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart, had the pleasure of interviewing someone named Rachel Greenwald.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Rachel is fascinating. She is an academic and a professional matchmaker, and she has wonderful advice. And she taught me what I call or what she calls and what I use is the white flag approach. And it doesn't mean surrender. It doesn't mean you're in a situation, a conversation you don't want to be in and you surrender. Rather, in auto racing, they signal the last lap by waving the white flag.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
It tells all the drivers that we're about to end the race. In conversation, you can exit politely by simply waving the white flag. Simply say, in a few minutes, I want to go talk to somebody over there. But before I go and you ask another question or you share some information with them about something they said.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So you continue the conversation just a little bit longer and then you excuse yourself. Now, because you've previewed that you're excusing yourself, nobody's surprised. There's less awkwardness. It gives the other person or people a chance to figure out what they're going to do so they're not just left there in a strange way.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And it gets us away from the exiting of most awkward conversations that we do, which is through biology. I'm hungry. I'm thirsty. I have to go to the bathroom. So instead, by waving the white flag, it's just much easier. It's much more graceful. And I use it all the time. And it works.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Yes. And many of us find ourselves in these situations. So you say, I don't know. Right. So when somebody says, you know, ask you a question and you don't know the answer, you say, I don't know. But you immediately follow it up with what you're going to do to find the answer out and give a time frame for when you will get back to them.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And if you have a hunch or an inkling as to what the answer might be, you can say that. So I might say something like, I don't know that answer. I'm going to go talk to Stephanie and I'm going to get back to you within 24 hours. My hunch is the answer is this. Now, many of us feel that when we don't know an answer, that that's horrific, that that's awful.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
In fact, the expectation that you know everything is pretty strange, right? It's not reasonable, right?
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
also many of us feel that we lose credibility in those moments we don't know answers there's some preliminary research that says actually saying you don't know saying how you're going to find out and then actually following up bolsters your credibility as much if not more than when you had you initially answered the the question
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Now, obviously, you don't use this as a ploy and purposely do this to boost your credibility. But we worry that it's going to put us at a disadvantage. And in fact, by demonstrating tenacity, by demonstrating that you have the wherewithal to figure out and find out information, that actually helps you in these circumstances. So we need to let go of that notion that we need to know everything.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Now, obviously, if people are asking lots of questions and you don't know many of the answers, that's a different situation, one where there's probably a mismatch between your expertise and the demands of the circumstance. So saying I don't know is not the end of the world, and it may actually be OK and helpful. Super helpful.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Yes. So first and foremost, I am a disciple of Kim Scott and Radical Candor. I think her work is fantastic. Kim is a friend. She's actually a neighbor. And so that approach that feedback is something that can be beneficial and is something that needs to be given constantly, not just constructive feedback, but positive feedback, neutral feedback.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
And in giving feedback all the time, any one instance of constructive feedback is perceived very differently than if there's no feedback and then all of a sudden constructive feedback. I see constructive negative feedback as an opportunity to problem solve. And when you reframe it as such, it changes the way you approach the whole thing.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Yeah, not later in the alphabet, earlier in the alphabet. Earlier, okay. With the last name Abrahams, A-B, I always went first in school. I always knew where I would sit. I always knew who was going first. I was a high school teacher for a couple years, and I understand that for high school and elementary school teachers, it's really easy just to organize your life alphabetically.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
Now, certainly there are things that people do that need to be stopped right away. It's inappropriate. It's wrong. You're not going to say, hey, let's have a conversation about it. No, you just have to stop it. But for most constructive feedback. It is in your best interest to collaborate with the person to actually achieve results.
The Action Catalyst
Connection Over Perfection, with Matt Abrahams (Communication, Speaking, Behavior, Business)
So first, see it as an invitation to problem solves, which means you want to invite the person in rather than making them defensive. So it changes the tone and the language that you use. I have a structure that I love to use for problems. Feedback, especially spontaneous feedback. It's four I's, four I's like glasses.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
It boils down to two things. It boils down to mindset and messaging. So we have to get our mindset and approach aligned with our goals of speaking in the moment. So first, we have to manage anxiety. Anxiety looms large in all communication, but especially in spontaneous speaking. And then we have to reframe how we see this. First and foremost, the goal we have.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
In conversation, you can exit politely by simply waving the white flag. Simply say, in a few minutes, I want to go talk to somebody over there. But before I go and you ask another question or you share some information with them about something they said. So you continue the conversation just a little bit longer and then you excuse yourself.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
Now, because you've previewed that you're excusing yourself, nobody's surprised. There's less awkwardness. It gives the other person or people a chance to figure out what they're going to do so they're not just left there in a strange way. And it gets us away from the exiting of most awkward conversations that we do, which is through biology. I'm hungry. I'm thirsty. I have to go to the bathroom.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
So instead, by waving the white flag, it's just much easier. It's much more graceful. And I use it all the time. And it works.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
Yes. And many of us find ourselves in these situations. So you say, I don't know. Right. So when somebody says, you know, ask you a question and you don't know the answer, you say, I don't know. But you immediately follow it up with what you're going to do to find the answer out and give a time frame for when you will get back to them.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
And if you have a hunch or an inkling as to what the answer might be, you can say that. So I might say something like, I don't know that answer. I'm going to go talk to Stephanie and I'm going to get back to you within 24 hours. My hunch is the answer is this. Now, many of us feel that when we don't know an answer, that that's horrific, that that's awful.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
In fact, the expectation that you know everything is pretty strange, right? It's not reasonable. Also, many of us feel that we lose credibility in those moments we don't know answers.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
There's some preliminary research that says, actually, saying you don't know, saying how you're going to find out, and then actually following up bolsters your credibility as much, if not more, than when you had you initially answered the question. Now, obviously, you don't use this as a ploy and purposely do this to boost your credibility. But we worry that it's going to put us at a disadvantage.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
Many of us, when we're put on the spot, we want to do our work. job right. We want to give the best answer. We want to give great feedback. We want to be the most interesting person in small talk. And that puts a tremendous amount of pressure on ourselves and makes it actually less likely we will achieve those goals. So we have to switch from perfection to connection. Just have the goal be
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
And in fact, by demonstrating tenacity, by demonstrating that you have the wherewithal to figure out and find out information, that actually helps you in these circumstances. So we need to let go of that notion that we need to know everything.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
Now, obviously, if people are asking lots of questions and you don't know many of the answers, that's a different situation, one where there's probably a mismatch between your expertise and the demands of the circumstance. So saying I don't know is not the end of the world, and it may actually be OK and helpful. Super helpful.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
connecting and conveying the information you need rather than doing it right. And by the way, there is no right way to communicate. The second thing we have to reframe is the whole interaction. Many of us see these spontaneous speaking situations as threatening, as something we have to defend against. When somebody asks us a question, we feel challenged.
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
When somebody asks for feedback, we feel put on the spot. And yet we need to reframe those as opportunities. It's an
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
love it okay how do you get out of a conversation that you don't want to be in yes so that can be very challenging and small talk is one of these things where we often find ourselves in conversations that we don't want to be part of and and we need to get out of them so i on my podcast think fast talk smart had the pleasure of interviewing someone named rachel greenwald rachel is fascinating she is an academic and a professional matchmaker and she has wonderful advice
The Action Catalyst
CLIP: Speaking Spontaneously, Exiting Small Talk, Answers When You Haven’t Got An Answer
And she taught me what I call or what she calls and what I use is the white flag approach. And it doesn't mean surrender. It doesn't mean you're in a situation, a conversation you don't want to be in and you surrender. Rather, in auto racing, they signal the last lap by waving the white flag. It tells all the drivers that we're about to end the race.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Absolutely. Let me introduce the method. It really divides into M&M, my favorite candies. It's about mindset and messaging. The first four steps are all about mindset. When it comes to communication in general, but specifically spontaneous speaking, anxiety looms large. We started by talking about that. Most people are nervous. Most people are really nervous in spontaneous situations.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So step number one is learning to manage that anxiety. Once we've managed that anxiety, the next thing we have to do is we need to do exactly what we talked about, not get in that mindset of I have to be perfect. So we have to focus our efforts on just getting the idea across. It's about connection, not perfection. Third, we have to see these situations as opportunities, not threats.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Many of us see speaking in front of others as a threat, and we have to reframe that as an opportunity that can really help us to be successful. And then the final step of mindset has to do with listening. And many people are like, what? Listening is important? You're talking about speaking. No, you have to listen. You have to be able to focus on what is needed in the moment. It is critical.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So we start with anxiety. We move to how we focus on connection, not perfection. It's about opportunities, not threats. And then it's about listening. Then we transition to messaging. The final two steps are about messaging. When we communicate, we must leverage structure. Many of us just take the audience on our journey of our discovery of what we want to say as we're saying it.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
In other words, we ramble, we list, we itemize. It's very hard for others to remember lists of information. And then the final step is we have to be concise and clear. Many of us say much more than we need to say. My mother has this wonderful saying, tell the time, don't build the clock. Many of us when we speak say more than we need to. So the last two steps are about structure and being concise.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So taken together, that methodology can help you feel more comfortable and confident in all communication, but especially spontaneous speaking. And you don't have to be an expert in each of those steps. Doing any work in any one of those areas will help you.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I don't. Who is Tom?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
One, thank you for being vulnerable and sharing that. A lot of people keep that inside and somebody as successful as you and who comes off as confident as you do, sharing that you get nervous, I think is great for people to hear. We all get nervous. It is the rare person who doesn't in high stakes situations. And also thank you for feeling comfortable with me. That makes me feel really good.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So when it comes to managing anxiety, you really have to take a two-pronged approach. You have to manage both symptoms and sources. Symptoms are what you physiologically feel. You shared some of those. And sources are the things that initiate and exacerbate the anxiety. So allow me to share a little bit on both sides of that. So when you begin to feel nervous, your body is responding to threat.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It's the fight or flight response. Everything that goes on for you is what would happen if you were being chased by somebody. So deep belly breathing is perhaps the best thing you could do. And when I say deep belly breathing, I mean filling your lower abdomen. If you've ever done yoga or meditation or Tai Chi or Qigong, It's this deep belly breathing.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And the important part is it's the exhalation. So I like to joke, instead of saying the rule of thumb, the rule of lung is you want your exhale to be twice as long as your inhale. And if you take two or three deep breaths, like a three count in and a six count out, you slow down your autonomic nervous system. You'll be less jittery. You'll speak more slowly. You'll be more present.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So that's a great thing to do to start. If you're somebody who shakes, you said there was a little quivering going on, that's adrenaline. Adrenaline's sole purpose is to move you from threat to safety. So we wanna move, but we wanna move with purpose. So big, broad gestures. If you're standing in front of an audience, you wanna walk forward.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
People would rather be standing on the precipice of a 30-story building covered in snakes and spiders rather than giving a presentation. Quite frankly, I think the other 15% are lying. We can prepare to be spontaneous. All communication, planned or spontaneous, needs to be goal-driven.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Movement in a positive way that supports what you're saying gives that energy a place to go and you will shake less. My personal symptom that happens to me, I blush and I perspire. I turn red and I sweat. That's because your core body temperature is going up. Your heart's beating faster. Your body's tensing. It's like you're exercising. When most of us exercise, we sweat and we perspire.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So we have to cool ourselves down. Before I ever speak, before I'm a guest on a show like yours, I will always hold something cold in the palms of my hand. The palms of your hand control the temperature of your body, just like your forehead or the back of your neck. We've done this on a cold morning.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
If you've ever held warm tea or coffee in a mug and felt that it warms you up, we're doing the opposite, cooling ourselves down. So there are things you can do, and there are many other things you can do to reduce the symptoms. But we also have to think about sources. Sources are the things that initiate and exacerbate anxiety. In your case, it sounds like you didn't want to look foolish.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You wanted to look your best being. You wanted to show up as best as you could. That's a lot of pressure you're putting on yourself. So by removing that goal, what's making you nervous in that situation is the goal to come off in the way you want it to come off. A goal is a future state. So what's making you nervous is a potential negative future outcome.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So if we can make ourselves more present-oriented, by definition, I'm not worried about the future. So anything you can do to get more present. Some ways to get present are to do something physical, walk around the building, do some light exercise. You could listen to a song or a playlist like athletes do to get present-oriented. Start at 100 and count backwards by seven teens.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
That gets you present-oriented. My favorite way to get present-oriented is to say tongue twisters. You can't say a tongue twister right and not be in the present moment. Plus, it warms up your voice. So by managing symptoms and sources, you can be more present-oriented, you can be more focused on what's happening in the moment, and less nervous.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So that was a very long-winded answer, I'm sorry, but the question is very real, and it's something that most of us can benefit by managing our anxiety.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I love that. I have a mantra I use. And my mantra is, you have value to bring. So I remind myself, because I can get negative. I can get my thought, you know, I'm not prepared. This person I'm talking to is so amazing. I just say, I have value to bring.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
There's something that this person has chosen to speak with me, be it on a podcast, be it a student asking me a question, be it somebody I just randomly meet. I have value to bring. And that alone cancels out that negative talk. So that's great. You found a tool for you, which is, it's called positive affirmation. And that seems to work for you. That's great.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Grace is really important in this. I think what helps many people is to realize that they're not alone in this, that lots of people suffer from this. A real quick story. The very first book I wrote was called Speaking Up Without Freaking Out. It's all about how to manage anxiety. I was in San Francisco airport.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
When it comes to managing anxiety, you really have to... The single best thing you can do in small talk is just be curious.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
They called my name over the loudspeaker because the chair I was supposed to sit in on the airplane was broken and they wanted to let me know that. I come back and the guy standing next to me said, you wrote that book on speaking anxiety. I said, yes. Have you read it? He said, no, but it helped me. I was like, you didn't read the book, but it helped you? What do you mean?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And he said, just knowing that a book like that existed helped him normalize his fear. He said, I thought I was the only one because at my work, everybody's so good. But I realized you didn't just write the book for me. So my point here is you have to give yourself a little grace.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It is normal and natural in the presence of somebody you admire, in the presence of somebody who is very qualified and accomplished. to want to do well and to be nervous. That makes complete sense. So allow yourself that permission to be nervous and then remind yourself that you have value to bring, that you can do some things in that moment.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And as you said, your conversation yesterday turned out great. He didn't even know you were nervous. So we have to remind ourselves of that. The biggest thing that can help here is reflection, not rumination, but reflection. Reflect now, Hala, on how and what you did to get yourself through that.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So the next time you interview somebody where you might feel that way, you remind yourself it is through that reflection that we can change. If we don't take the time to reflect, if we don't give ourselves grace, we're going to fall victim to that same cycle over and over again. So congrats on doing it and congrats on feeling a little embarrassed. That means that this was important for you.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
First and foremost, we have to...
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
This is a great question because you have to find a very delicate balance. Those who study communication and conversation distinguish between supporting and switching tactics. A supporting tactic is where you reinforce what the other person is saying, and a switching tactic is where you switch to something that you want to say. And I'll link this to your question in just a moment.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So if we're having a conversation, Hala, and you say, hey, I just got back from Hawaii, and I say, oh, which island did you go to? That's a supporting tactic. That invites you to say more. If I say, oh, I just got back from Costa Rica, that's a switching tactic.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You want to balance these out. And the research suggests you want to be slightly more supporting than switching, because that puts the other person in the position of you demonstrating interest and you wanting to hear what they have to say. The same ideas apply to disclosure of our own stories. We want to share some, but not too much.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
We should be communicating in a way that gets the other person to talk more, but we still have to share some of our stories. So the rule of thumb that they have in this switching versus supporting approach is you want two-thirds supporting, one-third switching.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I think the same idea when it comes to telling stories about ourselves or that are very personal to us versus soliciting stories and input from other people. So I think you should tell some, because if not, it just sounds like you're interrogating people if you don't share anything about yourself. But if you say too much about yourself, then it becomes almost rude.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So I like this one-third you talking, two-thirds them talking approach.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's why going into those situations, thinking about questions you might want to ask is always a good thing. Even if it's spontaneous, even if I'm going into a party or to some kind of conference setting where there's going to be people milling around, right before I go in the room, I can come up with two or three questions that I'm interested in.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And that's how I start. Because you're right. People like to talk. People like to share information about themselves. Having those questions at the ready can really help you.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Absolutely. So first and foremost, we need to listen better. We're just not good listening. We listen for the top line and then we begin judging, evaluating, rehearsing. You need to focus your listening. You need to listen for the bottom line. What I teach my students and what I try to do myself, and when I host my podcast, when I just talk to people on the street, I try to listen to paraphrase.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So as somebody is talking, I'm saying, what's the core essence? What's the bottom line? If I had to paraphrase or summarize what they said, what would I say? And when you listen that way, you listen more deeply. So in conversation, I'm listening for the bottom line. And that's where I start my response. So I might even comment on what that bottom line is.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I might say, oh, you're really curious about this. So I name it and then I add to it. So we have to listen better. We have to listen for the bottom line. So as you're listening to somebody, think about if I had to paraphrase what they're saying, what would I say? So use that as the starting point for what you want to contribute next.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Yeah, I just interviewed Chris for my podcast. Great guy, really interesting insight.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
He likes to talk about mirroring. That's what it is. Yeah, that's what it is, mirroring. And then Charles Duhigg calls this looping. It's this notion of you start with what the person says, you loop back to it, and then you move forward. And they're both talking about exactly the same thing.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It's you recognize what the person has said, which validates them, which builds connection and trust, but it also gives you a starting point for what comes next.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Absolutely, Holly. You are right. We can prepare to be spontaneous. And that sounds counterintuitive, but it really is true. One of the key ways to get yourself prepared is to become familiar with structure. Most of us, when we are nervous and we're put on the spot, we just list and itemize things. We just say whatever comes into our mind.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And that makes it really hard for the audience, the person or people we're talking to, to digest it. A structure is a logical connection of ideas, a beginning, a middle, and an end. Let me give you an example. If you've ever watched an advertisement, you have likely seen the structure problem, solution, benefit. Advertisements start with some issue challenge that exists.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
They then say how their product or service fixes that issue or challenge, and then how you benefit. So if you're selling cars, selling medicine, selling alcohol, does not matter. They all follow that structure. It's a logical connection of ideas.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
If you are familiar with structure, you have a recipe that you can follow for answering questions, for making small talk, for giving feedback, for apologizing, whatever the situation is. So if it's okay with you, can I share my favorite structure that I think works in a lot of situations? Would that be all right?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Excellent. So it's three simple questions. What, so what, now what? Okay. The what is the information you're getting across. It could be your idea, your product, your update, your feedback. The so what is why is it important or relevant to the person you're talking to? And then the now what is what comes next? Maybe it's, do you have questions for me? Let's go into that other room.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Let me show you something. It's the next step. So let me give you just real quickly a couple examples of how this might work. Imagine you're in a meeting and your boss says, hey, give me an update on that project you're working on. you hadn't prepared for an update. So you follow this structure. You answer the three questions. The what is your update? Here's what I've done.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
The so what is, here's why it's important. It matches our goals or expectations. And then the now what is, here are the three things that I need to have happen before I can progress. So simply by answering what, so what, now what, you've given a structured, packaged, concise response to the update.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Similarly, let's imagine you're walking out of a different meeting and somebody turns to you and says, how do you think that meeting went? Again, you're not prepared to give feedback. You didn't know you were going to have to give feedback. You simply answer these three questions. I might say, I thought the meeting went great, except when you talked about the implementation plan.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You spoke quickly without a lot of detail. That's the what. When you speak quickly without a lot of detail, people might think you're nervous or unprepared. That's the so what. Next time, slow down and add these two additional bits of information. That's the now what.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So in two very different situations, both spontaneous, by just answering those questions, what, so what, now what, that structure helps me get through it. And it takes pressure off me because I don't have to think about how to say it. I know how I'm gonna say it. I'm just gonna answer those questions. I just have to think about what those answers are.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So structure is key and you can prepare and practice structure. I challenge all of your listeners when they are done listening to this episode or any of your other awesome episodes at the end to simply say, what was the key takeaway for me? Why was it important and how can I use it?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And by drilling that just for 10, 15 seconds, you get more used to using this structure so it becomes natural to you. So structure is a really key ingredient to helping with all these situations we've been talking about.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Structure is just another fancy word for story. All stories have a structure, right? Beginning, middle, and an end. When somebody says, tell more stories, or this is about storytelling or narrative, what they're really saying and what I am hearing them say is, use a structure. Use a structure that engages people. So yes, I see those as synonymous and very important.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Oh, thank you. The first part of the book is about the six-step methodology. The second part of the book is about six specific spontaneous speaking situations. And for each one of them, It has a particular structure that I like teaching. So let me give you an example of one. Many of the people listening to your show are entrepreneurs or people who have ideas that they want to motivate others by.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I have a structure that I really like for pitching. So this is short persuasion, like an elevator pitch. This structure is different from what, so what, now what? This structure is just sentence starters. You finish these sentence starters. So it's what if you could, so that, for example, and that's not all. If you finish those four sentence starters, you have a good pitch.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So, Hala, I'm going to ask you to put me on the spot if you're willing to do this. Okay.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Pick a particular product or service that I would know, something I know. Just give it to me. And without any thought, I'm going to pitch it just using this structure. So if I do my job right, I'm going to demonstrate spontaneous speaking. So I don't know what you're about to say. You didn't know I was going to ask you to do this. So we're both being spontaneous.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Give me something to pitch, a product or service that I would know about.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You did that because I had problems with my Mac. What if you could easily access all of your information in a sleek looking device so that you could be prepared and have the information you need at your fingertips? For example, imagine you are flying from Los Angeles to New York and you have to create a presentation that you have to deliver when you land.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Wouldn't it be great to have a small, compact, good looking laptop that you could work on? And that's not all. You get access to a whole community of applications and users that can be supportive of your efforts. So by simply answering those specific prompts, what if you could, so that, for example, and that's not all, you can craft a pitch. What if you could gets people's attention.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Attention is the most precious commodity we have in the world today. So that makes it relevant. Here's what's important for you. For example, grounds it in reality. We remember detail better than we remember high-level information. And that's not all, extends and expands whatever you're talking about beyond the moment.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Hala, I am so excited to be here with you. Thank you.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So just knowing those four-sentence starters can help you pitch anything in the moment.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Yes, so two things. Beyond having a structure, structure is critical to being more concise. Two things. One, you have to think about your audience and what's relevant and most important to them, and then focus everything you're doing like a magnet towards that relevance. So I am constantly thinking to myself, what is most important to my audience in this moment? And that's what helps me focus.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Second, all communication, planned or spontaneous, needs to be goal-driven. A goal has three parts, information, emotion, and action. What do I want the audience to know? How do I want them to feel? And what do I want them to do? So before I walk into a conference room where I might get questions or be asked for feedback, I think, what do I want this audience to know? How do I want them to feel?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And what do I want them to do? By focusing on relevance and by focusing on your goal, you will become more concise and clear. And if you can then convey your message in a structure like we just talked about, that's how you truly become relevant and focused.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Yes, exactly.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
We are getting so meta right now. That's exactly what I did.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Yes. So most of us, as I said, say more than we need to do. We can actually challenge ourselves to say what we're saying with fewer words. This is a game that comes from the world of improvisation, where you start by saying something and then you cut it in half. And then you cut it in half again.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So a great way to do this is to look at something you've written, maybe even a text or a document or something, and challenge yourself to say it in half the number of words. How would you do that? And again, I'm not saying that whatever the result of that is in half number of words is the right way to do it. But what we're training our brain in this brevity example is we're training to prioritize.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Here's a great use for AI, by the way. If you've written something, an email, a document, put it in AI and say, make it half as long or highlight just the key elements and then look at what it comes out with. I'm not saying to leverage what it comes out with, but just look at what it has done to make it more concise and then use that as a reference point. Say, oh, you know what it did?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It cut out all the big words. Or do you know what it did? It took all of the action verbs and put them up front. So you begin to see how you can prioritize and get briefer in what you say. So whenever you write something, you can always challenge yourself and say, how would I say this in half as long? By training that process, you train your brain to do that in real time.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Absolutely. He's got wonderful sayings about communication, but right. It's about self-editing, but doing it very quickly. And the more you practice it, the better you get at it.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Yes, yes. So my podcast is Think Fast, Talk Smart. The book is Think Faster, Talk Smarter. The Think Fast and Think Faster part are all about pattern recognition. And we have to remind ourselves that whenever we're communicating, patterns are at play. And we have to be looking at those patterns and cataloging those patterns. Many of us are in repetitive situations.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
We have meetings with the same people over and over, or we do similar tasks. Like you interview, now you interview different people, but you're interviewing. And you can begin to look and notice patterns. Many of us are just so focused on getting through our communication that we don't spend time focusing on the patterns.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And if we can train ourselves to look at those patterns, it helps us read the room. That's what reading the room is. It's pattern recognition. So we might notice that 10 minutes into most of our meetings, the energy level dips. Well, that's a pattern. And I can notice, hey, we're coming up on 10 minutes. Maybe I should do something different.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So reading the room to me is all about just observing what's going on in the moment and then reflecting on it after the fact and coming up with a plan on how to deal with it in the future. So we have to take the time to get a little meta in our communication to observe what's going on and then to really reflect and then be prepared to adjust and adapt when we see those things play out.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It is really terrifying. People would rather be standing on the precipice of a 30-story building covered in snakes and spiders rather than giving a presentation. Up to 85% of people report feeling nervous in high-stakes communication situations. Quite frankly, I think the other 15% are lying. This is something that's just innate to being human.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I'm just going to stare the whole time. So you think I'm paying attention to it? Yes. No, you're right. But you have to observe that. You have to notice that, right? In order to act on it.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Oh, this is a big topic. Think Fast, Talk Smart is all about communication tips. And we've spent a lot of time talking about negotiation. So I've talked to lots of experts, as I know you have. Let me summarize a couple of things that I've taken away from all of my interviews. First and foremost, we have to know what we want.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
What is it that we want and what is it that we're willing to give up and are non-negotiables? Many of us enter into negotiations without a clear what's our non-negotiable and where can we negotiate? That's number one. Number two, we have to take the time to think about the other person's position. How much do they prioritize what it is we're negotiating over?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
We have this assumption that we make that everybody that we're dealing with holds whatever they hold at the same level we do. And let me give an example. My wife and I over the years have developed this technique so we don't fight and our negotiations go better.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
When we have something that we might disagree on and have to negotiate about, before we ever start, we declare how important that is to us. So let me give a really mundane, simple example. Let's say we want to go out to dinner and my wife really wants to go to Italian food and I really want to do Mexican food. That could be a negotiation. That could be a fight.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
But before we do it, we simply say, declare our priorities. She might say, going to Italian food, that's an eight on a scale of one to 10. And for me, Mexican food's a four. There's no negotiation. There's no conflict. What happens is I might assume, well, her desire is the same as my desire, and I'm going to really push.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And now all of a sudden, because I'm pushing, her desire rises because, hey, nobody likes to be threatened. So figure out priorities as best you can because you might not even need to negotiate. The third bit of advice is to think about the approach and metaphor that you're bringing to the situation. Michelle Gelfand, who's a colleague of mine at Stanford's Business School, studies negotiation.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And she says, mind your metaphors. A lot of us, when we approach negotiation, see it as a battle, see it as a fight. And when you see it that way, that changes your whole demeanor, how you approach it, the words you use. But if you see it as... a dance or as a conversation, that changes it as well, or a problem to be solved. So think about how are you approaching it?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And then the last thing, and I'm sure this isn't surprising, you have to approach from a place of listening. Many of us go and say, here are all the reasons we should do it my way. Start by listening. Start by asking questions. That also connects you, but you get an idea of what's important. So if you follow those four steps, really know what your non-negotiables are.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Think about the person's prioritization. How are you approaching it in terms of your mindset, your metaphor? And then ultimately listening, you're going to negotiate better.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
When you're networking, just like when you're interviewing, first and foremost, you should be thinking about who are the people that are in the space or in the room or on the Zoom that you're connecting with. So do some research, reconnaissance and reflection about who the people are that you might be speaking to, because that will help you focus your content.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Those of us who study it have found it across all cultures. It tends to start around the same time. Young teens are when our anxiety around speaking in front of others really takes off. And you're right. It's not just planned communication. It's also in the moment spontaneous speaking, which if you think about it is most of our communication. So it's part of being human.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Second, come up with themes that you want to get across. So in a networking environment, what are some key ideas I want to get across and share? And you can plan those in advance, whatever those are. You may want to share your opinions or you have strong opinions on AI or something going on in the news. That's your theme. and then stockpile some specific support for those themes.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Maybe it's a story you have. Maybe it's some data you heard about. Maybe it's a conversation you had with somebody else. So you stockpile those. Think of it this way. If you ever see a restaurant's kitchen and everybody's cooking fast and furious during a high peak time at the restaurant, They have everything prepared in advance. Everything's pre-chopped, pre-sautéed. So they're just assembling.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You can do the same thing. Think about these themes and then think about these different types of support for those themes. So when I'm in the networking situation and somebody brings up a point, I can say, I can connect that point to this theme I wanted to get across and I can pull in this example. So you've taken the pressure off of yourself to originate in the moment and
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And instead, you're just connecting and building, and that can actually help you feel better. And it allows you to be more agile and spontaneous. Think about this. An athlete does drills for certain aspects of the game. You know, professional basketball players do a lot of free throws, right? Or they do a lot of positional work.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So if I'm in this position and the ball comes to me in this way, I shoot it in that way. That's what you're doing. So when it happens, you're free to respond, but you've done that pre-work. So have a clear theme, have some supporting material that you can pull into that theme. And then when it comes to small talk directly, start with questions or observations.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Ask somebody a question or observe something that's happening in the environment. Just comment on it. I made a great, good friend simply by standing in line at a conference. I didn't know anybody. I looked around and I noticed lots of people were dressed in blue. It wasn't a uniform. It just happened to be coincidence. I turned to the guy. I said, I didn't get the memo on wearing blue.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
He looked around and said, you're right. Everybody's wearing blue. Started a great conversation. We've now become friends. When I travel to where he lives, I visit him all the time. It started simply with an observation. The last thing I'll say is the thing that challenges many people in small talk is getting out of it. How do you end it?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Rachel Greenwald, who I mentioned earlier, taught me this technique. She calls it the white flag, not for surrender, but in auto racing, the white flag is what you wave right before you end the race. So when you want to end small talk, most of us just rely on biology. I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I have to go to the bathroom. It's awkward. Instead, you wave the white flag.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You signal you're going to leave in a little bit. So if you and I were talking, I might say, I've really enjoyed this conversation. In a few minutes, I'm going to go over there and talk to people. But before I leave, I want to ask you one more question about something you did on a recent podcast. So do you see what I've done there?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I've signaled that I'm going to leave soon so you can prepare yourself. It's not a surprise. But I dive in for just a little bit more information. So... Before you start, you do your stockpiling in your themes and you now know a way to end. It makes networking and small talk so much easier.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
We feel threatened by the opportunity to be up in front of others. Those of us who study it think it has an evolutionary origin to it. When our species was evolving, we would hang out in groups of about 150 people, and your relative status in that group meant everything. And when I say status, I don't just mean who's driving a fancy car, who has the most social media followings.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
This is Deborah Schifrin you're talking about. Deborah is also a colleague at Stanford. And before I tell you the question, her goal is to give people an opportunity to say more. So a lot of us in our dialogue, we ask a question, they respond, we ask a question. But if you actually pause for a moment and you ask people and you just give them an opportunity to say more.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So not only does she say, is there anything else you'd like to say? Her magic question is, is there anything more you'd like to add? She also builds in a pause. So when somebody is done answering a question, if you pause just a little bit before you ask the next question or comment on it, you give people space. We are so busy and our attention is so pulled in different directions.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Space to say more is a gift. And so if you allow people more space, you actually show that you care, that you want to learn more, and that you want to connect. So I encourage all of you, when you are having deep, meaningful conversations or want to have deep, meaningful relationships,
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Pause a little bit, give people space, and really listen to what they say, and it will transform those relationships.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Oh, well, thank you for that opportunity. I think one of the things we did not talk about that is important for us to think about is not just what you say, but how you say it. We need to be thinking about our body and our voices when we communicate. So it's not just feeling comfortable and confident speaking in the moment, it is appearing comfortable and confident.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So let me share just a couple bits of advice about what we can do with our body and our voices. First and foremost, you want to be big. Many of us, when we get nervous or are feeling threatened, we make ourselves small. So the best thing you can do is take your shoulder blades and just pull them down. Make yourself broad. I'm not pushing my elbows back. I'm not puffing my chest out.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I just pull my shoulder blades down and I make myself look bigger. You look more confident. You wanna hold your head straight and not tilted. I'm not saying be stiff and rigid. Just make yourself big. When you speak, vary your voice. If I were to have spoken like this for this entire interview, people would have left a long time ago. Our brains are wild for novelty, things that change.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So add emotive words. If you are somebody who doesn't have a lot of variation, add adjectives and adverbs. So I would never say, I'm really excited to be here. No, I'd say I'm really excited. So emphasize those words. So the one thing we didn't talk about is how you say what you say. And we need to remember that.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And the single easiest way to work on this is to record yourself, either through voice memo or through video. Really easy to do that these days. And watch. It's painful to watch yourself. But when you do, you'll see these things that work for you and things that you might want to change.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
All of my MBA students I teach, whenever they do a presentation, I make them watch themselves without listening to it. And then I make them listen to themselves without watching it and then do both together. And while they hate it, they love it because they learn so much and they actually are able to change.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You make them... They record themselves and then they view it in three ways. Video only, audio only, and then both together.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I mean access to resources like food, shelter, reproduction. So anything you did that put your status at risk would cause anxiety. And getting up in front of others was exactly that. So it is ubiquitous, yet it is something we can learn to manage.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It's the burden of being a podcaster. You have to listen and watch. But my hunch is, Holly, you've probably changed some of your communication based on what you've seen.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Focus on your communication. At the end of every day, take 30 seconds to think about what is something that went well in my communication today and what is something I'd like to improve. By simply taking time to catalog what works for you and really lean into that and take the things that challenge you and start fixing that, working on it, can help. Every day I do this.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And on the weekends, I go back and look at everything and then I set a plan for myself. So I am constantly working and honing on my communication. And it will help you be more profitable. It'll help you connect better with people and ultimately help you feel better about the relationships you have.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Being open to opportunity. I rarely say no. I say yes to many opportunities and my life has unfolded really pleasantly and in great ways, simply because many people's natural response is to say no, to be protective. And I like to approach things with curiosity and openness. So I encourage everybody to do that.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It has been my superpower where I've looked for opportunity and really driven towards it.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Oh, thank you for the opportunity. This has been fantastic. So the podcast is called Think Fast, Talk Smart. It is 20-minute episodes about communication, all aspects of it. We've been around for almost five years, lots of episodes. Check us out at faster, smarter.io, where everywhere you get your podcasts, including YouTube, check out the book, Think Faster, Talk Smarter.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
You can get it wherever you get your books. Really trying to help people hone and develop their communication and improve their careers.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Hala, thank you. This was a true delight. You are a master at what you do.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Yeah, well, because things come at us so fast and furiously. Think about it. We are bombarded with information all the time. People are asking us questions. People are asking us for feedback. We make mistakes. We have to correct. Things go wrong. We have to apologize. We're in a situation where we have to make small talk.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
The interactions that we're having, both in person and virtually, require us to speak spontaneously and to shift very quickly as we do it.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I don't know if I would say hurting. It's definitely changing and challenging it. There are more ways to communicate, and some of those ways are actually really helpful to us. We can be more efficient in our communication. We can spend more time with it because of tools that help us get messages out more quickly. At the same time, we miss the opportunity to connect.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So I am an optimist when it comes to technology and communication, but we do have to adjust and adapt. And the big thing we have to remind ourselves is in the workforce, we have multiple generations and some of the generations, more likely the younger generations, or more comfortable and used to using technology. And those of my generation or older aren't.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So we're in this transition phase and we all just have to remember that we're all learning and we learn at a different pace. But I do think technology can help us communicate. We just have to leverage it appropriately.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
The need to communicate spontaneously I think is the same. I actually think that all generations struggle, but for different reasons. Younger generations, in my observation, tend to struggle with the connection piece. A lot of spontaneous communication is about connection.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Older generations, my generation and even older, tend to struggle with the speed of communication because a lot of spontaneous speaking happens immediately and it happens quickly. So I think everybody struggles a little bit, but the reasons they struggle differ based on just their experience and how they grew up communicating. That all said, we can learn to do this better.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
It's a confluence of several things, but it turns out with my last name, Abrahams, A-B, I always went first through school, literally from kindergarten through university. I always knew where I sat. I always sat front row, closest to the door. So whenever the teachers, and I am a teacher and I know it's just easier to do things alphabetically, I would always be called on first.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So growing up, I just got used to having to speak spontaneously. My friends whose last names were later in the alphabet would always thank me. They said, thank you because you would start and it would give me time to think and plan and prepare. So part of my ability to speak better spontaneously, and I can certainly improve as can all of us, came from experience.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Practice and experience is a large part of what helps us get better at all communication. It's like an athlete. Athletes train to be spontaneous. They do a lot of drills. So in the game, they can be agile and respond to what happens. And we can all do the same thing. I, either through good fortune or dumb luck with my last name, got a lot of reps early on in life.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Absolutely. So first, thank you for the compliment. The book was written to really be applicable. There are try this parts of the book. I think the only way to learn any communication, but especially spontaneous communication, is by doing it. And so I've tried to make the book accessible in that way. And thank you for saying that it was successful, at least for you.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
So I'm going to give advice that I give to people when I talk about small talk, because what you're asking about is really touching on the same issue. The single best thing you can do in small talk, when you're meeting people you don't know, or you don't feel that you are at the same level they are, is just be curious. We have this pressure we put on ourselves to be interesting.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And I think what's most important, and I learned this from a guest on my podcast, Think Fast, Talk Smart, her name's Rachel Greenwald. She taught me this notion of the goal is to be interested, not interesting. So lead with curiosity. You don't have to know everything. But be curious. And when you're curious, others will open up and share.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And if they're good at what they do, they'll help make their content accessible to you. So we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to feel like I need to be the expert. I need to ask the best question. I need to have the best feedback. That's a tremendous amount of pressure to put on ourselves. Instead, we say, hey, I just want to connect. And I'm curious about what the other person says.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
That reduces that pressure. It makes it easier for the other person to share. So my mother-in-law had a black belt in small talk. She was amazing. And her secret was three words, tell me more. So just expressing curiosity, I think Hala will help you now. You need to do your research. You need to understand the domain that the person's in.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
But just getting the person talking, demonstrating interest, being curious, allowing them space to respond, that's the best way, I think, to get conversation going and to elevate your knowledge level and appropriateness of what you're saying.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
To prepare for this work I did that ultimately ended up in the book, I did a lot of research across many academic domains, psychology, anthropology, sociology, communication, neuroscience, and improvisation. And improv has just amazing insights into communication, especially spontaneous communication. And in improv, they have this notion of dare to be dull.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
In other words, the goal in improv is not to be an amazing star with everything you say. Instead, the job is to just get things going, keep things moving along. And sometimes the best way to do that is just to do it, be dull. So I've transformed that into what I call maximize your mediocrity. And I teach at Stanford. I teach Stanford Business School students.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
And I start my first class every quarter by saying, the goal of this class is to maximize your mediocrity. And Hala, you should see these students' jaws drop. They have never been told to be mediocre. But the point is this, if you think of your brain like a computer, it's not a perfect analogy, but it works for this.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
If you have a laptop or a phone that has lots of apps or windows open, each one of those apps and windows is performing less well because the other ones are open. You have limited bandwidth and you're spreading it thin. When I am putting pressure on myself to say the right thing in the right way at the right time to be perfect, I am actually putting so much pressure on myself.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
I'm using all this bandwidth to judge and evaluate and assess my perfection or lack thereof that I actually have very little bandwidth to actually do the communication. So when you give yourself permission to just get it done, I like to say it's about connection, not perfection.
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
If I just connect with the person, if I just convey my information, I then free up all this bandwidth that allows me to do it really well. So I end my very first class by saying, I told you to maximize mediocrity, and the reason is so you can achieve communication greatness. When we remove that pressure from ourselves to be right, to be perfect, we actually free up bandwidth to help us
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Get the point across and do it well. And I'll just say one more thing. This is why memorizing is the enemy of communication success. And I know for many people, they're like, wait, wait, wait, wait. If I don't memorize, I'm lost. No, memorizing makes it harder to actually communicate because part of your brain is constantly assessing, am I saying what I had memorized?
Young and Profiting (YAP) with Hala Taha
Matt Abrahams: Spontaneous Speaking for Entrepreneurs, How to Communicate Confidently On the Spot | Human Behavior E330
Which only leaves the other part of your brain to actually communicate. So it is better to have a roadmap, a structure, just bullet points that you are familiar with than memorizing word for word. So being mediocre is all about changing cognitive bandwidth to be in your favor.