Mark Zuckerberg
👤 PersonPodcast Appearances
I didn't know. So, yeah, so, I mean, the glasses, though, you know, we thought that this was like, all right, we want to get working with Estee Lauder Luxottica so we can start building more and more advanced glasses. And then, you know, they're really good. They look good. And then AI, like, the massive transformation in AI.
I didn't know. So, yeah, so, I mean, the glasses, though, you know, we thought that this was like, all right, we want to get working with Estee Lauder Luxottica so we can start building more and more advanced glasses. And then, you know, they're really good. They look good. And then AI, like, the massive transformation in AI.
Yeah, a few years ago, I would have predicted that AR holograms would have been available before kind of like full-scale AI. And now I think it's probably going to be the other order. So now it's like, all right, great. Well, this is actually a great product because it's got the cameras so it can see what you see. It's got the microphone. It's got the speakers. You can talk to it.
Yeah, a few years ago, I would have predicted that AR holograms would have been available before kind of like full-scale AI. And now I think it's probably going to be the other order. So now it's like, all right, great. Well, this is actually a great product because it's got the cameras so it can see what you see. It's got the microphone. It's got the speakers. You can talk to it.
I remember calling Alex Himmel, the guy who runs the product group that's running it, and I'm like, Hey, you know, I think we should probably pivot this and make it so that Meta AI is the primary feature of it. And then, like, I remember I came in the next week and they built a prototype of it on Tuesday. And it was like, all right, good. Yeah, no, this is good.
I remember calling Alex Himmel, the guy who runs the product group that's running it, and I'm like, Hey, you know, I think we should probably pivot this and make it so that Meta AI is the primary feature of it. And then, like, I remember I came in the next week and they built a prototype of it on Tuesday. And it was like, all right, good. Yeah, no, this is good.
This is going to be a very successful product.
This is going to be a very successful product.
Yeah, that tracks. That's what I just said. Sounds right.
Yeah, that tracks. That's what I just said. Sounds right.
I think it's that we're a technology company that is focused on human connection, not a specific type of app. So we never thought about ourselves as a website or a social network or anything like that.
I think it's that we're a technology company that is focused on human connection, not a specific type of app. So we never thought about ourselves as a website or a social network or anything like that.
For me, building this kind of glasses to enable the future of people being able to feel present with another person no matter where they actually physically are is the natural continuation of the kind of apps that we build today. But it depends on how you define what you are. And then you need to figure out well, how do you give yourself the competence to actually go do that?
For me, building this kind of glasses to enable the future of people being able to feel present with another person no matter where they actually physically are is the natural continuation of the kind of apps that we build today. But it depends on how you define what you are. And then you need to figure out well, how do you give yourself the competence to actually go do that?
And that's where I think being a strong technology company comes in. Because a lot of companies, I think, think about themselves too narrowly in terms of, okay, well, we're this kind of one thing. And the reason why we can build all these things is because we have a really strong technology foundation. And some of that is just... me and how I think about stuff.
And that's where I think being a strong technology company comes in. Because a lot of companies, I think, think about themselves too narrowly in terms of, okay, well, we're this kind of one thing. And the reason why we can build all these things is because we have a really strong technology foundation. And some of that is just... me and how I think about stuff.
I was an engineer before I got started. I mean, I mostly took systems engineering type classes when I was in college. So you talk about Friendster and Myspace and all the scaling challenges they had doing the graph calculations of like, all right, do you know this person? Should you show them their page?
I was an engineer before I got started. I mean, I mostly took systems engineering type classes when I was in college. So you talk about Friendster and Myspace and all the scaling challenges they had doing the graph calculations of like, all right, do you know this person? Should you show them their page?
So I think it's a combination of... a product question and a technology question. I think you can define the product in such a general way that the technology becomes basically impossible to solve. So you want to have a smart product definition, but then you want to be competent and better than everyone else at the technology.
So I think it's a combination of... a product question and a technology question. I think you can define the product in such a general way that the technology becomes basically impossible to solve. So you want to have a smart product definition, but then you want to be competent and better than everyone else at the technology.
And I think that that's something that we've held ourselves to and built a good organization around. And it's one of the things that I... observed as soon as I came out to the Valley, that all these companies that called themselves technology companies were not really set up that way. The companies I was talking about, it's like, The CEO wasn't technical.
And I think that that's something that we've held ourselves to and built a good organization around. And it's one of the things that I... observed as soon as I came out to the Valley, that all these companies that called themselves technology companies were not really set up that way. The companies I was talking about, it's like, The CEO wasn't technical.
The board of directors had no one technical on it. They had one dude on the management team who was the head of engineering who was technical, and everyone else wasn't. It's like, all right, if that's your team, then you're not a technology company. So I think one of the things that I've always been pretty careful about is I actually want...
The board of directors had no one technical on it. They had one dude on the management team who was the head of engineering who was technical, and everyone else wasn't. It's like, all right, if that's your team, then you're not a technology company. So I think one of the things that I've always been pretty careful about is I actually want...
like a lot of the people on our management team, it's like, you know, split, it's mostly people running either these big product groups who've come up through different technical pathways at the company. And I think that there's like a balance, right? It's like, you don't want everyone to be an engineer because there's other things that matter too.
like a lot of the people on our management team, it's like, you know, split, it's mostly people running either these big product groups who've come up through different technical pathways at the company. And I think that there's like a balance, right? It's like, you don't want everyone to be an engineer because there's other things that matter too.
But if you don't have enough of your kind of share of the company as engineers, then you're not a technology company. And I think that that also is important to the board. And I think it just like in terms of how you weigh decisions and culturally things inside the company matters a lot. But I think that that's one of the things that has been really fundamental, right?
But if you don't have enough of your kind of share of the company as engineers, then you're not a technology company. And I think that that also is important to the board. And I think it just like in terms of how you weigh decisions and culturally things inside the company matters a lot. But I think that that's one of the things that has been really fundamental, right?
It's like we're able to kind of go from platform to platform and do these different things because we've invested and cared about the underlying technology. The product experiences that we build on top of that are an implementation and they matter. And for that, I think, we also, I think, are a pretty curious and learning-focused organization where
It's like we're able to kind of go from platform to platform and do these different things because we've invested and cared about the underlying technology. The product experiences that we build on top of that are an implementation and they matter. And for that, I think, we also, I think, are a pretty curious and learning-focused organization where
You know, I view the product strategy less as any one specific thing and more as how do we iterate and learn as quickly as possible how to make each thing better for the people we're trying to serve. So I define our strategy as we can learn faster than every other company. We're going to win.
You know, I view the product strategy less as any one specific thing and more as how do we iterate and learn as quickly as possible how to make each thing better for the people we're trying to serve. So I define our strategy as we can learn faster than every other company. We're going to win.
We're going to build a better product than everyone else because we're going to get it out first or early. We're going to have a good feedback loop. We're going to get a bunch of feedback. We're going to learn what people like better than other people.
We're going to build a better product than everyone else because we're going to get it out first or early. We're going to have a good feedback loop. We're going to get a bunch of feedback. We're going to learn what people like better than other people.
And then over time, by the time you get to, whether it's version 3 or 4 or 5, I mean, they're not even discrete versions because you ship so frequently. It's you just... you learn faster. So that's basically the formula. Be a technology company, build good foundation, learn from what people are kind of focused on in the world, and iterate as quickly as you can.
And then over time, by the time you get to, whether it's version 3 or 4 or 5, I mean, they're not even discrete versions because you ship so frequently. It's you just... you learn faster. So that's basically the formula. Be a technology company, build good foundation, learn from what people are kind of focused on in the world, and iterate as quickly as you can.
But you're very generous. Part of it is like, okay, you want to set up the game so that way you optimize, you create your luck.
But you're very generous. Part of it is like, okay, you want to set up the game so that way you optimize, you create your luck.
Well, great engineering and speed and iteration are actually two different values. They're not necessarily at odds, but I think there are a lot of great engineering organizations that try to build things that are super high quality and have good competence around that, but there's a certain, personality that goes with taking your stuff and putting it out there before it's fully polished.
Well, great engineering and speed and iteration are actually two different values. They're not necessarily at odds, but I think there are a lot of great engineering organizations that try to build things that are super high quality and have good competence around that, but there's a certain, personality that goes with taking your stuff and putting it out there before it's fully polished.
And look, I'm not saying that our strategy or approach on this is the only one that works. I think in a lot of ways, we're the opposite of Apple. And clearly, their stuff has worked really well, too. But they take this approach. It's like, we're going to take a long time. We're going to polish it. We're going to put it out.
And look, I'm not saying that our strategy or approach on this is the only one that works. I think in a lot of ways, we're the opposite of Apple. And clearly, their stuff has worked really well, too. But they take this approach. It's like, we're going to take a long time. We're going to polish it. We're going to put it out.
And maybe for the stuff that they're doing that works, maybe that just fits with their culture. But for us, I think that there are a lot of conversations that we have internally where you're almost at the line of being embarrassed about what you put out. Because it's obviously not in the sense that it's like you want to put stuff out early enough so you can get good feedback.
And maybe for the stuff that they're doing that works, maybe that just fits with their culture. But for us, I think that there are a lot of conversations that we have internally where you're almost at the line of being embarrassed about what you put out. Because it's obviously not in the sense that it's like you want to put stuff out early enough so you can get good feedback.
you obviously want to test things that are reasonable hypotheses. So if it's so ineffective, then you're not testing a good hypothesis. That doesn't work. But I do think a lot of the conversations that we have are like, OK, well, we can get this to be a lot better if we work on it for another couple of months or whatever.
you obviously want to test things that are reasonable hypotheses. So if it's so ineffective, then you're not testing a good hypothesis. That doesn't work. But I do think a lot of the conversations that we have are like, OK, well, we can get this to be a lot better if we work on it for another couple of months or whatever.
I do just think that you want to really have a culture that values shipping and getting things out and getting feedback more than needing always to get great positive accolades from people when you put stuff out.
I do just think that you want to really have a culture that values shipping and getting things out and getting feedback more than needing always to get great positive accolades from people when you put stuff out.
Because I think if you want to wait until you get praised all the time, you're missing a bunch of the time when you could have learned a bunch of useful stuff and then incorporated that into the next version you were going to ship.
Because I think if you want to wait until you get praised all the time, you're missing a bunch of the time when you could have learned a bunch of useful stuff and then incorporated that into the next version you were going to ship.
Well, I would like to hope that it's not damaging to the brand, but... Well, but innately it is.
Well, I would like to hope that it's not damaging to the brand, but... Well, but innately it is.
Yeah, I don't want to overstate it. I mean, we don't ship things that we think are bad, but we also don't take... We want to make sure that we're shipping things that... that are kind of early enough that we can get good feedback to see what they're gonna be most used for.
Yeah, I don't want to overstate it. I mean, we don't ship things that we think are bad, but we also don't take... We want to make sure that we're shipping things that... that are kind of early enough that we can get good feedback to see what they're gonna be most used for.
Like I think a lot of the AI stuff that we're building now, for example, it actually, you know, it's pretty clear that AI is going to be transformative for a lot of different things. It is actually less clear what are gonna be the initial use cases for a lot of these things that are super valuable.
Like I think a lot of the AI stuff that we're building now, for example, it actually, you know, it's pretty clear that AI is going to be transformative for a lot of different things. It is actually less clear what are gonna be the initial use cases for a lot of these things that are super valuable.
And so, okay, part of it is like, okay, you put something out, you wanna kind of collect feedback and what people are actually, what it's, you know, where it's resonating. If what you put out is bad, then you're not going to collect good data because people aren't going to use it for anything because it sucks.
And so, okay, part of it is like, okay, you put something out, you wanna kind of collect feedback and what people are actually, what it's, you know, where it's resonating. If what you put out is bad, then you're not going to collect good data because people aren't going to use it for anything because it sucks.
But I do think that you have hypotheses for what people might really want to use it for, and they're not all going to be right, and you want to kind of go early enough on that as more, yeah.
But I do think that you have hypotheses for what people might really want to use it for, and they're not all going to be right, and you want to kind of go early enough on that as more, yeah.
Does it have to be one or the other? I mean, I think it's a combination. I think you're basically taking some kind of values either kind of like values that you have or a value for something that you believe should exist in the world and trying to build something that's aligned with that while trying to match it up with what is going to resonate the most with people.
Does it have to be one or the other? I mean, I think it's a combination. I think you're basically taking some kind of values either kind of like values that you have or a value for something that you believe should exist in the world and trying to build something that's aligned with that while trying to match it up with what is going to resonate the most with people.
I think if you just do the latter, then I think you just don't have enough conviction to see through hard things. And if you just do the former, then you probably don't get to product market fit or optimize what you do because you're not focused enough on your customers. So I think both probably matter, yeah.
I think if you just do the latter, then I think you just don't have enough conviction to see through hard things. And if you just do the former, then you probably don't get to product market fit or optimize what you do because you're not focused enough on your customers. So I think both probably matter, yeah.
I mean, I think that there's... There's certainly a lot of things that we've invented or created for the first time. I mean, in 2006, when we built the first version of News Feed, before that, social networks were basically profiles. And then we were like, hey, people actually kind of want to get the updates, and let's show them that. And if we rank them, then we can.
I mean, I think that there's... There's certainly a lot of things that we've invented or created for the first time. I mean, in 2006, when we built the first version of News Feed, before that, social networks were basically profiles. And then we were like, hey, people actually kind of want to get the updates, and let's show them that. And if we rank them, then we can.
There's so many updates that this can help people parse through that quickly. And today, it's hard to imagine any social product without a feed. So I think that, obviously, some of these things are sort of seminal. I don't want to call it an invention, but like patterns that we basically established first.
There's so many updates that this can help people parse through that quickly. And today, it's hard to imagine any social product without a feed. So I think that, obviously, some of these things are sort of seminal. I don't want to call it an invention, but like patterns that we basically established first.
And then some of them are ones that other people did where we take pride in learning from what is working in the world. You know, we're not embarrassed about learning from things that other people like discovered that were good first. And then we build a better version of it. And I mean, I think that that's, You know, no one company is going to invent everything, right?
And then some of them are ones that other people did where we take pride in learning from what is working in the world. You know, we're not embarrassed about learning from things that other people like discovered that were good first. And then we build a better version of it. And I mean, I think that that's, You know, no one company is going to invent everything, right?
I think if you don't invent anything, then it's hard to kind of be a successful company. But I do think that there's a mix of this. There are more smart people outside of your company than inside your company.
I think if you don't invent anything, then it's hard to kind of be a successful company. But I do think that there's a mix of this. There are more smart people outside of your company than inside your company.
If you're not learning from what's going on in the market, then you're missing a lot of opportunities to get valuable signal from people in the community and customers about what they want you to be doing.
If you're not learning from what's going on in the market, then you're missing a lot of opportunities to get valuable signal from people in the community and customers about what they want you to be doing.
I think almost all of the major technology companies at this point are primarily using open source stacks. So yeah, I mean, we wouldn't have been able to get built without open source. I think probably that's true for any new company that's been created since like, I don't know, the late 1990s or something. For us, open source has been important and valuable.
I think almost all of the major technology companies at this point are primarily using open source stacks. So yeah, I mean, we wouldn't have been able to get built without open source. I think probably that's true for any new company that's been created since like, I don't know, the late 1990s or something. For us, open source has been important and valuable.
Yeah, yeah. No, and it's great. It makes it super easy to develop stuff quickly and iterate quickly. But we've also had an interesting relationship with this because sequentially as a company, we came after Google. So Google was the first of the great companies that built this distributed computing infrastructure. So they came first.
Yeah, yeah. No, and it's great. It makes it super easy to develop stuff quickly and iterate quickly. But we've also had an interesting relationship with this because sequentially as a company, we came after Google. So Google was the first of the great companies that built this distributed computing infrastructure. So they came first.
They were like, all right, let's keep this proprietary because it's a big advantage for us. And then we're like, all right, we need that too. But we built it, and then we're like, OK, not an advantage for us, because Google already has that. So we might as well just make it open. And by making it open, then you basically get this whole community of people building around it.
They were like, all right, let's keep this proprietary because it's a big advantage for us. And then we're like, all right, we need that too. But we built it, and then we're like, OK, not an advantage for us, because Google already has that. So we might as well just make it open. And by making it open, then you basically get this whole community of people building around it.
So it wasn't going to help us compete with Google for, any of the stuff that we were doing to have that technology. But what we were able to do with things like Open Compute were get it to become the industry standard. So now you have all these other cloud service platforms that basically use Open Compute.
So it wasn't going to help us compete with Google for, any of the stuff that we were doing to have that technology. But what we were able to do with things like Open Compute were get it to become the industry standard. So now you have all these other cloud service platforms that basically use Open Compute.
And because of that, the supply chain is standardized around our designs, which means that it's way more supply, way cheaper to produce. We've saved billions of dollars. And the quality of the stuff that we get to use goes up. So all right, that's like a win-win. I think in order for this to work, we do a lot of open source stuff. We do a lot of closed source stuff. I'm not like a zealot on this.
And because of that, the supply chain is standardized around our designs, which means that it's way more supply, way cheaper to produce. We've saved billions of dollars. And the quality of the stuff that we get to use goes up. So all right, that's like a win-win. I think in order for this to work, we do a lot of open source stuff. We do a lot of closed source stuff. I'm not like a zealot on this.
I think open source is very valuable, but I also think it sort of makes sense for us because of our position in the market. And the same for AI. I mean, around Lama.
I think open source is very valuable, but I also think it sort of makes sense for us because of our position in the market. And the same for AI. I mean, around Lama.
Yeah, it's... You know, similar deal. You know, we want to make sure that we have access to a leading AI model, right? I think just like we want to build the hardware so that we can build the best social experiences for the next 20 years, I don't think that, you know, for us, it's like we've just been... We've been through too much stuff with the other platforms to fully depend on anyone else.
Yeah, it's... You know, similar deal. You know, we want to make sure that we have access to a leading AI model, right? I think just like we want to build the hardware so that we can build the best social experiences for the next 20 years, I don't think that, you know, for us, it's like we've just been... We've been through too much stuff with the other platforms to fully depend on anyone else.
And we're a big enough company at this point that we don't have to. We can build our own core technology platforms, whether that's going to be AR glasses or mixed reality or AI. So I think that's somewhat of an imperative for us to go do that. But these things are not like pieces of software that are monolithic. They're ecosystems. They get better when other people use them. So for us...
And we're a big enough company at this point that we don't have to. We can build our own core technology platforms, whether that's going to be AR glasses or mixed reality or AI. So I think that's somewhat of an imperative for us to go do that. But these things are not like pieces of software that are monolithic. They're ecosystems. They get better when other people use them. So for us...
There's a huge amount of good, and it philosophically lines up with where we are. I mean, look, I definitely firsthand have a lot of experiences. We were trying to build stuff on mobile platforms. The platforms are just like, nah, you can't build that. That's frustrating.
There's a huge amount of good, and it philosophically lines up with where we are. I mean, look, I definitely firsthand have a lot of experiences. We were trying to build stuff on mobile platforms. The platforms are just like, nah, you can't build that. That's frustrating.
Okay, this is quite a detour. Wait. Quite a detour.
Okay, this is quite a detour. Wait. Quite a detour.
I'm sorry. I was, like, really, like, wound up.
I'm sorry. I was, like, really, like, wound up.
I think it was a pretty different technical issue. So, I mean, our legacy was building on web for websites, and we were very used to building one thing and being able to continuously deploy it, and it fits with our iteration style and all that. So now all of a sudden this, like, app model comes along, and it's like we have to build, like, different ones for each phone.
I think it was a pretty different technical issue. So, I mean, our legacy was building on web for websites, and we were very used to building one thing and being able to continuously deploy it, and it fits with our iteration style and all that. So now all of a sudden this, like, app model comes along, and it's like we have to build, like, different ones for each phone.
And you have to go through approval to get it shipped. And we have to wait weeks before it can ship. It's like, this sucks. So we're like, all right, we have an idea. Let's build this platform where we can get a web-based platform. So you basically build a native shell. And you build this web-based platform in it. And we'll be able to just update our apps every day. And we'll ship one thing once.
And you have to go through approval to get it shipped. And we have to wait weeks before it can ship. It's like, this sucks. So we're like, all right, we have an idea. Let's build this platform where we can get a web-based platform. So you basically build a native shell. And you build this web-based platform in it. And we'll be able to just update our apps every day. And we'll ship one thing once.
And we'll update our apps across Android and iPhone. Blackberry and Windows Mobile and all the stuff that existed at the time because it hadn't gotten consolidated yet. And we're like, basically, whatever downside we are going to have from not having the most native thing, we're going to make up for in velocity and by having way more of our energy focused on one platform. Well, we were wrong.
And we'll update our apps across Android and iPhone. Blackberry and Windows Mobile and all the stuff that existed at the time because it hadn't gotten consolidated yet. And we're like, basically, whatever downside we are going to have from not having the most native thing, we're going to make up for in velocity and by having way more of our energy focused on one platform. Well, we were wrong.
It turned out that having the native integration was actually critical for having the interactions feel good. So we basically went through this period where we had to go rewrite our apps from scratch. And that coincided with mobile growing dramatically. And mobile, we didn't have any revenue. Because it may seem like it's pretty similar, but there's a very big difference.
It turned out that having the native integration was actually critical for having the interactions feel good. So we basically went through this period where we had to go rewrite our apps from scratch. And that coincided with mobile growing dramatically. And mobile, we didn't have any revenue. Because it may seem like it's pretty similar, but there's a very big difference.
On desktop, you basically have the app, and you have a column on the side that we could put ads. And on mobile, we needed to figure out, what does it mean to put ads into the experience?
On desktop, you basically have the app, and you have a column on the side that we could put ads. And on mobile, we needed to figure out, what does it mean to put ads into the experience?
Yeah, and advertisers have specific formats that they like working with, and the idea that we were just going to be like, all right, now your ad is going to look like a feed story was a big challenge for advertisers.
Yeah, and advertisers have specific formats that they like working with, and the idea that we were just going to be like, all right, now your ad is going to look like a feed story was a big challenge for advertisers.
And the idea that now for people, you were going to have this organic feed that was the most important part of the product, and now we're just going to start putting ads in it was a challenge for the people using the product. We needed to figure that out, and we needed to get the apps to be better. And we basically took, I think it must have been like a year or something.
And the idea that now for people, you were going to have this organic feed that was the most important part of the product, and now we're just going to start putting ads in it was a challenge for the people using the product. We needed to figure that out, and we needed to get the apps to be better. And we basically took, I think it must have been like a year or something.
We were just like, look, we're going to pause feature development of the company because it's hard enough to do a rewrite. If you look at the history of the tech industry, there are all these examples like Netscape and all these things that they tried to do a rewrite. They needed to reestablish their technical platform, and they also tried to add features. They basically just never terminated.
We were just like, look, we're going to pause feature development of the company because it's hard enough to do a rewrite. If you look at the history of the tech industry, there are all these examples like Netscape and all these things that they tried to do a rewrite. They needed to reestablish their technical platform, and they also tried to add features. They basically just never terminated.
So that's a real risk when you're completely changing your underlying platform that you're going to miss it. I was like, all right, we've got to minimize the chance that that happens. So we're not going to ship any new features. We're just going to rewrite it, make it faster. But while we're doing this, basically mobile is growing. So the percent of our traffic that is monetizable
So that's a real risk when you're completely changing your underlying platform that you're going to miss it. I was like, all right, we've got to minimize the chance that that happens. So we're not going to ship any new features. We're just going to rewrite it, make it faster. But while we're doing this, basically mobile is growing. So the percent of our traffic that is monetizable
is shrinking, because web is basically shrinking, and mobile's growing.
is shrinking, because web is basically shrinking, and mobile's growing.
Yeah, and I was like, all right, OK.
Yeah, and I was like, all right, OK.
You know, but the thing is, it was actually pretty clear what we needed to do. I think strategically, a lot of the time, it's somewhat harder to know what to do when you're winning. When stuff is going well, it's like, what is the next move to go from winning to winning more? But when you're losing, it's usually pretty clear what you have to do.
You know, but the thing is, it was actually pretty clear what we needed to do. I think strategically, a lot of the time, it's somewhat harder to know what to do when you're winning. When stuff is going well, it's like, what is the next move to go from winning to winning more? But when you're losing, it's usually pretty clear what you have to do.
And I think a lot of it is just, do you have the pain tolerance to go do it? So a lot of this was like, all right, the team was like, OK. well, we're going public and investors really aren't going to like this if we are not making money for a year and a half. And it's like, well, a year and a half is short in the grand scheme of things. Let's do this. And we did it.
And I think a lot of it is just, do you have the pain tolerance to go do it? So a lot of this was like, all right, the team was like, OK. well, we're going public and investors really aren't going to like this if we are not making money for a year and a half. And it's like, well, a year and a half is short in the grand scheme of things. Let's do this. And we did it.
And it was a painful year and a half. And then we came out of that and we were in great shape. So I think people inside the company had felt a lot better sooner because it was pretty clear to people that we were doing the right thing. And they knew that we were executing in a responsible way and basically focused and we're doing the right thing.
And it was a painful year and a half. And then we came out of that and we were in great shape. So I think people inside the company had felt a lot better sooner because it was pretty clear to people that we were doing the right thing. And they knew that we were executing in a responsible way and basically focused and we're doing the right thing.
But I think it's actually when you have something that's working well and you're on one local hill and you need to jump to another hill, that's the stuff that's really culturally hard. But this one I think was, it was not fun. There have been a period, a series of periods throughout the company that were not, I don't know, not the most fun periods.
But I think it's actually when you have something that's working well and you're on one local hill and you need to jump to another hill, that's the stuff that's really culturally hard. But this one I think was, it was not fun. There have been a period, a series of periods throughout the company that were not, I don't know, not the most fun periods.
Although that one, in retrospect, looks pretty good in retrospect. It's not that bad. It's like your market cap only got cut in half for a year and a half. Great. Great. Yeah, I'll take that.
Although that one, in retrospect, looks pretty good in retrospect. It's not that bad. It's like your market cap only got cut in half for a year and a half. Great. Great. Yeah, I'll take that.
I mean, there's so many things that we've messed up that there are many criticisms that are legitimate. But if that was a year and a half mistake, I think one of the things I reflect on over the last 10 years or so was the political environment just changed dramatically.
I mean, there's so many things that we've messed up that there are many criticisms that are legitimate. But if that was a year and a half mistake, I think one of the things I reflect on over the last 10 years or so was the political environment just changed dramatically.
Before 2016, there was not a month that went by, except for maybe this IPO period, where the sentiment about the company was anything but positive. And then after 2016, after the election, basically there was not a month for a while where the sentiment about the company was positive. And I think so much of this stuff is... correctly understanding your place in the world and in history.
Before 2016, there was not a month that went by, except for maybe this IPO period, where the sentiment about the company was anything but positive. And then after 2016, after the election, basically there was not a month for a while where the sentiment about the company was positive. And I think so much of this stuff is... correctly understanding your place in the world and in history.
And so I think we talked about before how it's like, I think we understood that we are a technology company and that you have to be a technology company to build this kind of thing. I think we understood that we're not a social network company, we're a human connection company, and that will take different forms over time. The political environment, I think I didn't have much
And so I think we talked about before how it's like, I think we understood that we are a technology company and that you have to be a technology company to build this kind of thing. I think we understood that we're not a social network company, we're a human connection company, and that will take different forms over time. The political environment, I think I didn't have much
sophistication around, and I think I just fundamentally misdiagnosed the problem. So I think that there was this basic challenge, and there were a lot of things. I don't wanna simplify this too much. I mean, there were a lot of things that we did wrong, there were some things that we did right, but I think one of the things that I look back on regret is I think we accepted,
sophistication around, and I think I just fundamentally misdiagnosed the problem. So I think that there was this basic challenge, and there were a lot of things. I don't wanna simplify this too much. I mean, there were a lot of things that we did wrong, there were some things that we did right, but I think one of the things that I look back on regret is I think we accepted,
other people's view of some of the things that, you know, they were asserting that we were doing wrong or were responsible for that I don't actually think we were. And, you know, that's, it's... There were a lot of things we did mess up and we needed to fix.
other people's view of some of the things that, you know, they were asserting that we were doing wrong or were responsible for that I don't actually think we were. And, you know, that's, it's... There were a lot of things we did mess up and we needed to fix.
But I think that there's this view where when you're a company and someone says that there's an issue, I think the right instinct is to take ownership for it. Say, OK, maybe it's not all our thing, but we're going to fully own this problem. We're going to take responsibility for it. We're going to fix it. But when it's a political problem, I actually think a lot of the time
But I think that there's this view where when you're a company and someone says that there's an issue, I think the right instinct is to take ownership for it. Say, OK, maybe it's not all our thing, but we're going to fully own this problem. We're going to take responsibility for it. We're going to fix it. But when it's a political problem, I actually think a lot of the time
Sometimes there are people who are operating in good faith who are identifying a problem that wants something to be fixed, and there are people who are just looking for someone to blame. And I think to some degree, if you take responsibility for things because you think it's a corporate crisis, not a political crisis, And your view is like, OK, I'm going to take responsibility for all this stuff.
Sometimes there are people who are operating in good faith who are identifying a problem that wants something to be fixed, and there are people who are just looking for someone to blame. And I think to some degree, if you take responsibility for things because you think it's a corporate crisis, not a political crisis, And your view is like, OK, I'm going to take responsibility for all this stuff.
People are basically blaming social media and the tech industry for all these different things in society. And if we're saying, OK, we're going to really do our part to go fix this stuff, I know there were a bunch of people who just took that and were like, oh, you're taking responsibility for that? Let me kick you for more stuff.
People are basically blaming social media and the tech industry for all these different things in society. And if we're saying, OK, we're going to really do our part to go fix this stuff, I know there were a bunch of people who just took that and were like, oh, you're taking responsibility for that? Let me kick you for more stuff.
And honestly, I think we should have been firmer and clearer about which of the things we actually felt like we had a part in and which ones we didn't. And my guess is if the IPO was a year and a half mistake. I think that the political miscalculation was a 20 year mistake. And so it started in 2016.
And honestly, I think we should have been firmer and clearer about which of the things we actually felt like we had a part in and which ones we didn't. And my guess is if the IPO was a year and a half mistake. I think that the political miscalculation was a 20 year mistake. And so it started in 2016.
And I think that we have been working super hard to fix a lot of issues and to figure out kind of what the right tone is for navigating what is a very kind of fraught political dynamic across both the country and multiplied across all these places around the world. And I think we've,
And I think that we have been working super hard to fix a lot of issues and to figure out kind of what the right tone is for navigating what is a very kind of fraught political dynamic across both the country and multiplied across all these places around the world. And I think we've,
sort of found our footing on what the principles are, where we think we need to improve stuff, but where people make allegations about the impact of the tech industry or our company, which are just not founded in any fact, that I think we should push back on harder.
sort of found our footing on what the principles are, where we think we need to improve stuff, but where people make allegations about the impact of the tech industry or our company, which are just not founded in any fact, that I think we should push back on harder.
And I think it's going to take another 10 years or so for us to fully work through that cycle before our brand and all of that is back to the place that it maybe could have been if I hadn't messed that up in the first place. But look, in the grand scheme of things, 20 years isn't that bad either. And we'll get through it. And I think we'll come out stronger.
And I think it's going to take another 10 years or so for us to fully work through that cycle before our brand and all of that is back to the place that it maybe could have been if I hadn't messed that up in the first place. But look, in the grand scheme of things, 20 years isn't that bad either. And we'll get through it. And I think we'll come out stronger.
But I do think that is one of the kind of more interesting critiques that I think people get. And we get critiques on both sides on that. There are people who don't think we've taken enough responsibility. But I think certainly there's one line of critique, which is you kind of bought into too much of the stuff that you shouldn't have.
But I do think that is one of the kind of more interesting critiques that I think people get. And we get critiques on both sides on that. There are people who don't think we've taken enough responsibility. But I think certainly there's one line of critique, which is you kind of bought into too much of the stuff that you shouldn't have.
And yeah, I think it's going to take us a long time to dig out of that.
And yeah, I think it's going to take us a long time to dig out of that.
Yeah. I mean, at this point, I think a lot of this stuff has been studied. So I mean, I don't want to go rehash all the different things. But I think at this point, there's been years of academic research on a lot of these things.
Yeah. I mean, at this point, I think a lot of this stuff has been studied. So I mean, I don't want to go rehash all the different things. But I think at this point, there's been years of academic research on a lot of these things.
And part of the thing that's challenging is, and one of the things that we've learned, is we actually should be trying to support more academics and doing more of this research ahead of time. Because when you get to a point where you're being accused of something, you're not super credible. Just standing up yourself and being like, I don't think we did this one.
And part of the thing that's challenging is, and one of the things that we've learned, is we actually should be trying to support more academics and doing more of this research ahead of time. Because when you get to a point where you're being accused of something, you're not super credible. Just standing up yourself and being like, I don't think we did this one.
But what has worked over time is like, you do the research in advance and you get kind of third party academics, respected folks who get to debate all these different issues. And then it's like, oh no, actually like the evidence just does not show that social media is correlated with this kind of harm at all. So I think that like, or it's, you know, so I think that it kind of cuts both ways.
But what has worked over time is like, you do the research in advance and you get kind of third party academics, respected folks who get to debate all these different issues. And then it's like, oh no, actually like the evidence just does not show that social media is correlated with this kind of harm at all. So I think that like, or it's, you know, so I think that it kind of cuts both ways.
When you start when you're 19, it's like, hopefully we have more than 20 years left.
When you start when you're 19, it's like, hopefully we have more than 20 years left.
Well. In 2006, Yahoo wanted to buy the company for a billion dollars, and everyone on our management team wanted to sell it, and the board tried to fire me, and everyone, and basically in the next year, everyone else on the management team left because they, I hadn't done a good job, I mean, I don't want to blame them.
Well. In 2006, Yahoo wanted to buy the company for a billion dollars, and everyone on our management team wanted to sell it, and the board tried to fire me, and everyone, and basically in the next year, everyone else on the management team left because they, I hadn't done a good job, I mean, I don't want to blame them.
I hadn't done a good job communicating the long-term vision because I wasn't thinking about that at the time. wasn't thinking in terms of this as a company. I was like, this is a great project. It's awesome. A lot of people like what we're doing. I think this will probably continue for a while. I think it's going to be pretty important in the world.
I hadn't done a good job communicating the long-term vision because I wasn't thinking about that at the time. wasn't thinking in terms of this as a company. I was like, this is a great project. It's awesome. A lot of people like what we're doing. I think this will probably continue for a while. I think it's going to be pretty important in the world.
But I didn't know how to think in terms of long-term financial plans or... Like make the case to them why it would be worth more than a billion. Yeah, or just like, look, we're doing this for the long term. We're not planning on selling the company. So it's like without having made that case, it was understandable that basically Yahoo comes around.
But I didn't know how to think in terms of long-term financial plans or... Like make the case to them why it would be worth more than a billion. Yeah, or just like, look, we're doing this for the long term. We're not planning on selling the company. So it's like without having made that case, it was understandable that basically Yahoo comes around.
A lot of people, it's like this is like all their startup dreams come true. You've got to take this offer. Because I just wasn't in a place where I had the sophistication to basically... articulate a lot of the stuff around where we were going longer term. It probably wasn't super confidence-inspiring to them when I was like, hey, I think we should turn this down because we're going to do this.
A lot of people, it's like this is like all their startup dreams come true. You've got to take this offer. Because I just wasn't in a place where I had the sophistication to basically... articulate a lot of the stuff around where we were going longer term. It probably wasn't super confidence-inspiring to them when I was like, hey, I think we should turn this down because we're going to do this.
So after that, I was like, all right, well, I don't want to get fired from my own company for wanting to build it, so let's try to set up a governance structure that makes it somewhat harder to do that. So... Learning through suffering.
So after that, I was like, all right, well, I don't want to get fired from my own company for wanting to build it, so let's try to set up a governance structure that makes it somewhat harder to do that. So... Learning through suffering.
Yeah, I mean, I think we're having a lot more fun now. They get to work on all the stuff. It's awesome.
Yeah, I mean, I think we're having a lot more fun now. They get to work on all the stuff. It's awesome.
I think that there's different schools of thought on how to do it. I think some people think, OK, I want to go start a company, so I'm going to go dive into this idea. And I just think that that's a little bit dangerous because there's this issue, which is you have to be able to be nimble and pivot around until you can figure out what works.
I think that there's different schools of thought on how to do it. I think some people think, OK, I want to go start a company, so I'm going to go dive into this idea. And I just think that that's a little bit dangerous because there's this issue, which is you have to be able to be nimble and pivot around until you can figure out what works.
Part of the reason why I didn't think Facebook was going to be the company early on was because when I was in school, I built 12 different things. that were just things that I wanted to exist. And I was like, all right, this is fun. OK, let's build another thing. It's like, OK, this one's fun. People are still using that. I'll help up keep this one.
Part of the reason why I didn't think Facebook was going to be the company early on was because when I was in school, I built 12 different things. that were just things that I wanted to exist. And I was like, all right, this is fun. OK, let's build another thing. It's like, OK, this one's fun. People are still using that. I'll help up keep this one.
But I had a bunch of other ideas for stuff I was going to build too. So I didn't know how to think about what a company was going to be. And so I think there's something about maintaining flexibility that's helpful. Once you hire a bunch of people, It's a lot easier when you can just have meetings in your own head about what direction you want to go in.
But I had a bunch of other ideas for stuff I was going to build too. So I didn't know how to think about what a company was going to be. And so I think there's something about maintaining flexibility that's helpful. Once you hire a bunch of people, It's a lot easier when you can just have meetings in your own head about what direction you want to go in.
And there's a lot less pride and people dug in when you're just like, okay, I'm going to change direction. People haven't invested their ego in like, no, we were going in this direction, and now I must be convinced. It's like, nah. So I do think that that's a thing where you want to keep things lean and be able to do that. And that's one of the reasons why we tried to get the company back to it.
And there's a lot less pride and people dug in when you're just like, okay, I'm going to change direction. People haven't invested their ego in like, no, we were going in this direction, and now I must be convinced. It's like, nah. So I do think that that's a thing where you want to keep things lean and be able to do that. And that's one of the reasons why we tried to get the company back to it.
being whatever the leanest version of a large company is that we can be. But I do think that there's something to that, where it's like, obviously it's not super fun not having the resources to do what you wanna do, but I think it also is problematic to have more people working on something than you should have for the stage that it's at.
being whatever the leanest version of a large company is that we can be. But I do think that there's something to that, where it's like, obviously it's not super fun not having the resources to do what you wanna do, but I think it also is problematic to have more people working on something than you should have for the stage that it's at.
Because then the people who are working on it don't have the agency to actually make the changes and do the things that they need to, which is less fun. And then you can't attract the best people to go work on those things because it's less fun. And so I do think you just have to dial it right.
Because then the people who are working on it don't have the agency to actually make the changes and do the things that they need to, which is less fun. And then you can't attract the best people to go work on those things because it's less fun. And so I do think you just have to dial it right.
I mean, well, I think some of the stuff, by the time you're at the scale that we're at, is also just about, like, what do you want to do over the next 10 to 20 years? And what do you think are going to be important?
I mean, well, I think some of the stuff, by the time you're at the scale that we're at, is also just about, like, what do you want to do over the next 10 to 20 years? And what do you think are going to be important?
And, you know, we were talking about, like, making your own luck and all that and how, you know, it's like, I think there are some broad strokes that we can have a sense of where things are going. I'm pretty sure glasses and kind of, like, holographic presence and AR is going to be a completely ubiquitous thing. product, right?
And, you know, we were talking about, like, making your own luck and all that and how, you know, it's like, I think there are some broad strokes that we can have a sense of where things are going. I'm pretty sure glasses and kind of, like, holographic presence and AR is going to be a completely ubiquitous thing. product, right?
It's just like everyone who had a phone before replaced it with a smartphone, and then a lot of more people got smartphones. If all we get is all the people in the world who already have glasses upgrading to glasses that have AI in them, then this is already going to be one of the most successful products in the history of the world. And I think it's going to go a lot further than that.
It's just like everyone who had a phone before replaced it with a smartphone, and then a lot of more people got smartphones. If all we get is all the people in the world who already have glasses upgrading to glasses that have AI in them, then this is already going to be one of the most successful products in the history of the world. And I think it's going to go a lot further than that.
So I know there's that. There is the thing about controlling our own destiny. It's strategically valuable.
So I know there's that. There is the thing about controlling our own destiny. It's strategically valuable.
We did this calculation or estimate at some point where it's like, how much money do we lose from our core family of apps to the various taxes that the platforms have to when they tell us we can't run the ad business the way that we think we should be able to, when they tell us we can't ship certain products so that way people use the things less or like them less.
We did this calculation or estimate at some point where it's like, how much money do we lose from our core family of apps to the various taxes that the platforms have to when they tell us we can't run the ad business the way that we think we should be able to, when they tell us we can't ship certain products so that way people use the things less or like them less.
It's hard to exactly estimate it, but I think we might be like twice as profitable if we own the platform or something. So I think from that perspective, that's worth a lot. Just from like a pure like dollars perspective, which is not primarily how I come at this stuff, but even like now I've learned a thing or two since the Yahoo days. So now I at least am able to like,
It's hard to exactly estimate it, but I think we might be like twice as profitable if we own the platform or something. So I think from that perspective, that's worth a lot. Just from like a pure like dollars perspective, which is not primarily how I come at this stuff, but even like now I've learned a thing or two since the Yahoo days. So now I at least am able to like,
It's great to be here. You know, I was watching... I was watching Jensen's video correcting the record, and I was thinking to myself, we might need to book the next one of these for all the things I'm going to have to apologize for that I'm going to say tonight.
It's great to be here. You know, I was watching... I was watching Jensen's video correcting the record, and I was thinking to myself, we might need to book the next one of these for all the things I'm going to have to apologize for that I'm going to say tonight.
I might not be able to convince all the investors that we should be investing to the extent that we are in Reality Labs if I didn't control the company. But at least I can sort of articulate a case for why I am confident that it's going to be good over time. But for me, it's always been way more about the product experience and what you can enable and build.
I might not be able to convince all the investors that we should be investing to the extent that we are in Reality Labs if I didn't control the company. But at least I can sort of articulate a case for why I am confident that it's going to be good over time. But for me, it's always been way more about the product experience and what you can enable and build.
And one of the shifts, and this is sort of like a values shift. over time is one of the things that some of the early Oculus guys used to say to me, that there's a difference between building good things and awesome things. And good is good. It's helpful. It's useful. It's things that people use on a day-to-day basis because it adds something to their lives. But awesome is different.
And one of the shifts, and this is sort of like a values shift. over time is one of the things that some of the early Oculus guys used to say to me, that there's a difference between building good things and awesome things. And good is good. It's helpful. It's useful. It's things that people use on a day-to-day basis because it adds something to their lives. But awesome is different.
Awesome is uplifting and inspiring and just leads you to just be way more optimistic about the future. And it's just like this uplifting thing about humanity. And so I think a lot of what we've done with social media so far is very good. We've built these products. More than 3 billion people use them. on a near daily basis.
Awesome is uplifting and inspiring and just leads you to just be way more optimistic about the future. And it's just like this uplifting thing about humanity. And so I think a lot of what we've done with social media so far is very good. We've built these products. More than 3 billion people use them. on a near daily basis.
Yeah. And they use it because it is useful in their life. And in all these different ways. I mean, obviously, people vary. People use it for different things. But it's useful. And it helps people stay connected. It helps people build businesses. It helps people form communities. It's good. There aren't that many people on a day-to-day basis who get out of bed and are like, fuck yeah, social media.
Yeah. And they use it because it is useful in their life. And in all these different ways. I mean, obviously, people vary. People use it for different things. But it's useful. And it helps people stay connected. It helps people build businesses. It helps people form communities. It's good. There aren't that many people on a day-to-day basis who get out of bed and are like, fuck yeah, social media.
So I kind of think for my next stage, for the next stage of the company, the next 15 years, I want us to build more things that are awesome in addition to things that are good. And I think that they both matter. To me, this is a little bit of the next stage of what I want our company to stand for and be. And so I think a lot of the Reality Lab stuff that we're doing is going to be in that bucket.
So I kind of think for my next stage, for the next stage of the company, the next 15 years, I want us to build more things that are awesome in addition to things that are good. And I think that they both matter. To me, this is a little bit of the next stage of what I want our company to stand for and be. And so I think a lot of the Reality Lab stuff that we're doing is going to be in that bucket.
A lot of the AI stuff that we're doing, I think, is going to be in that bucket. There are a bunch of things in the apps that are going to be in that bucket, too. New apps, too. But I don't know, I think that there's just something that's fundamentally pretty good about that. Maybe it's also just where I am in my life. I like to think I'm young, I'm a little older.
A lot of the AI stuff that we're doing, I think, is going to be in that bucket. There are a bunch of things in the apps that are going to be in that bucket, too. New apps, too. But I don't know, I think that there's just something that's fundamentally pretty good about that. Maybe it's also just where I am in my life. I like to think I'm young, I'm a little older.
I do think that at this point, it's not just a meta thing. Also, in my personal life, a lot of what I personally value is doing things that are inspiring with people who I find inspiring. And so there's the personal version of this. It's like I get to work on interesting science problems with Priscilla and my wife and a bunch of awesome people.
I do think that at this point, it's not just a meta thing. Also, in my personal life, a lot of what I personally value is doing things that are inspiring with people who I find inspiring. And so there's the personal version of this. It's like I get to work on interesting science problems with Priscilla and my wife and a bunch of awesome people.
I get to design shirts with some of the best fashion designers in the world. Statues. A sculpture of my wife. Bring back the Roman tradition of designing sculptures of people you love. Wow. I'm not at all being facetious. It's really cool. I think Daniel Arsham is a really talented guy, and I was like, that's a person who I'd love to work with on something. Let's go find a project.
I get to design shirts with some of the best fashion designers in the world. Statues. A sculpture of my wife. Bring back the Roman tradition of designing sculptures of people you love. Wow. I'm not at all being facetious. It's really cool. I think Daniel Arsham is a really talented guy, and I was like, that's a person who I'd love to work with on something. Let's go find a project.
One of my side projects is, we have this cattle ranch in Kauai, and I'm trying to see if we can raise the highest quality beef in the world. There's all this stuff. It starts with... It's awesome. We got this steer... Chonk? He's just the man. He's the man.
One of my side projects is, we have this cattle ranch in Kauai, and I'm trying to see if we can raise the highest quality beef in the world. There's all this stuff. It starts with... It's awesome. We got this steer... Chonk? He's just the man. He's the man.
We're having a hard time keeping him on the ranch because every time we put him in a steel enclosure and he sees a female cow, he busts through the steel enclosure. But I feel like that's the kind of bull that you want to make the highest quality beef in the world. And we're just working with, you know, trying to do really high quality, awesome things with awesome people.
We're having a hard time keeping him on the ranch because every time we put him in a steel enclosure and he sees a female cow, he busts through the steel enclosure. But I feel like that's the kind of bull that you want to make the highest quality beef in the world. And we're just working with, you know, trying to do really high quality, awesome things with awesome people.
If that's what I get to do for the next 15 or 20 years, then like, it's gonna be a good 15 or 20 years.
If that's what I get to do for the next 15 or 20 years, then like, it's gonna be a good 15 or 20 years.
Oh, God. I mean, look, I think... Coming out hot, David. Yeah, no, I mean, he started it. Literally.
Oh, God. I mean, look, I think... Coming out hot, David. Yeah, no, I mean, he started it. Literally.
No, I think that there might've been something around the way the company shifted in operations around COVID. I mean, it's like the COVID, like all these tech companies went remote temporarily and it was an interesting period to just like get some more time, like a step back. I'm a pretty introverted person and I do think it's,
No, I think that there might've been something around the way the company shifted in operations around COVID. I mean, it's like the COVID, like all these tech companies went remote temporarily and it was an interesting period to just like get some more time, like a step back. I'm a pretty introverted person and I do think it's,
I need to be careful where like, I get a lot of value and energy and ideas from being around other people, but I also need time with myself. And with COVID, I kind of got that. And it was a time of reflection where I was able to think about this stuff. And we were also going through this very difficult political time in the country. And our company was at the center of a lot of those things.
I need to be careful where like, I get a lot of value and energy and ideas from being around other people, but I also need time with myself. And with COVID, I kind of got that. And it was a time of reflection where I was able to think about this stuff. And we were also going through this very difficult political time in the country. And our company was at the center of a lot of those things.
So that was a cause of a bunch of reflection. And then I think that a bunch of the things that we'd, spun up earlier, but at smaller scale. So the Reality Lab stuff that we started in 2014, really, the FAIR stuff around fundamental AI research, 2012, 13? 2012, 2013, sometime around then.
So that was a cause of a bunch of reflection. And then I think that a bunch of the things that we'd, spun up earlier, but at smaller scale. So the Reality Lab stuff that we started in 2014, really, the FAIR stuff around fundamental AI research, 2012, 13? 2012, 2013, sometime around then.
I think there's something to Jensen's original sentiment, which is that the entrepreneurial journey is very challenging, especially the early days when you're running a startup and, you know, there's the sense that what you're doing could just die at any moment and the volatility, everything is just getting thrashed so much. And it's not...
I think there's something to Jensen's original sentiment, which is that the entrepreneurial journey is very challenging, especially the early days when you're running a startup and, you know, there's the sense that what you're doing could just die at any moment and the volatility, everything is just getting thrashed so much. And it's not...
These things, they kind of got started, and they were growing, and it kind of reached this moment which is like, are we going to double down on this and do this, or are we going to kind of do this as a hobby? And I was like, no, I think we should do this. This is going to be a really important part of what we do.
These things, they kind of got started, and they were growing, and it kind of reached this moment which is like, are we going to double down on this and do this, or are we going to kind of do this as a hobby? And I was like, no, I think we should do this. This is going to be a really important part of what we do.
And we had to make a really important set of decisions where we knew it was going to be really painful to... go double down on those things and build out the AI infrastructure that we needed to and scale up some of the Reality Lab stuff. And I knew that a lot of the investors would hate it, at least in the short term before it's clearly the right thing to do.
And we had to make a really important set of decisions where we knew it was going to be really painful to... go double down on those things and build out the AI infrastructure that we needed to and scale up some of the Reality Lab stuff. And I knew that a lot of the investors would hate it, at least in the short term before it's clearly the right thing to do.
What I didn't know was that at the time, I thought they were gonna not like it. But I thought it was going to be OK, because I didn't think there was also going to be a recession at the same time. So that, really, it's like, I mean, look, you learn who you are through challenges.
What I didn't know was that at the time, I thought they were gonna not like it. But I thought it was going to be OK, because I didn't think there was also going to be a recession at the same time. So that, really, it's like, I mean, look, you learn who you are through challenges.
It's like we had a really, OK, losing half of your market cap is quaint compared to losing 80% of your market cap, or whatever it was. But so, I mean, these are all intentional decisions, right? It's like, I mean, there are a lot of conversations that we had, which are like, should we go forward with this? And the answer that I came out with is yes. This is what I believe in.
It's like we had a really, OK, losing half of your market cap is quaint compared to losing 80% of your market cap, or whatever it was. But so, I mean, these are all intentional decisions, right? It's like, I mean, there are a lot of conversations that we had, which are like, should we go forward with this? And the answer that I came out with is yes. This is what I believe in.
I think this is going to be important for the world. I think it's going to work over time. We're no stranger to going through painful periods. In some ways, it makes the company better. Let's do it. Thank you.
I think this is going to be important for the world. I think it's going to work over time. We're no stranger to going through painful periods. In some ways, it makes the company better. Let's do it. Thank you.
You know, finding good short names... I mean, this actually was a thing that we talked about for a while, because it was pretty clear that... Facebook is continuing to grow in importance in the world, which I think a lot of people don't appreciate and is kind of mind-boggling at the scale that it's at.
You know, finding good short names... I mean, this actually was a thing that we talked about for a while, because it was pretty clear that... Facebook is continuing to grow in importance in the world, which I think a lot of people don't appreciate and is kind of mind-boggling at the scale that it's at.
But the others, I mean, we went through a period where we had Facebook and a handful of small apps. And now we have four apps that have a billion people or more using them, hopefully in the next few years, five with threads, if that continues scaling. And...
But the others, I mean, we went through a period where we had Facebook and a handful of small apps. And now we have four apps that have a billion people or more using them, hopefully in the next few years, five with threads, if that continues scaling. And...
This was a conversation that we had a bunch, where it's like, does it make sense for the name of the company to be one of the apps as the other apps, as it's really becoming a family of apps? And it was important to me, this was also coinciding with a lot of a lot of the challenges that we were having, the political brand challenges, different things.
This was a conversation that we had a bunch, where it's like, does it make sense for the name of the company to be one of the apps as the other apps, as it's really becoming a family of apps? And it was important to me, this was also coinciding with a lot of a lot of the challenges that we were having, the political brand challenges, different things.
And a lot of people were proposing that from the perspective of running away from the Facebook brand. They were like, oh, well, does the Facebook brand have issues? Do we need a new brand? And I was like, we don't run away from that.
And a lot of people were proposing that from the perspective of running away from the Facebook brand. They were like, oh, well, does the Facebook brand have issues? Do we need a new brand? And I was like, we don't run away from that.
You obviously look back, you have all these fond memories, but it was not the most fun part of the journey, or the part of my life that I wish I could go back and relive. I do think that there's something to what Jensen was saying that I thought was very honest, and that when I heard him say it the first time, I was like, yeah, I get that.
You obviously look back, you have all these fond memories, but it was not the most fun part of the journey, or the part of my life that I wish I could go back and relive. I do think that there's something to what Jensen was saying that I thought was very honest, and that when I heard him say it the first time, I was like, yeah, I get that.
It might make sense one day to not have Facebook be the lead brand for the company because we do so many different things, but I'm only going to do this when we come up with a brand that is going to be evocative of the future that we're trying to build because we run towards something. We don't run away from things. And when we got to Meta, then I was like, all right, we're here.
It might make sense one day to not have Facebook be the lead brand for the company because we do so many different things, but I'm only going to do this when we come up with a brand that is going to be evocative of the future that we're trying to build because we run towards something. We don't run away from things. And when we got to Meta, then I was like, all right, we're here.
And it was around the time when we were doubling down on the investment and where there was all the controversy. And it's like, look, if we're doing this, we're going to lean into this and we're going to do it. So let's do it.
And it was around the time when we were doubling down on the investment and where there was all the controversy. And it's like, look, if we're doing this, we're going to lean into this and we're going to do it. So let's do it.
Yeah. I get it. But I don't know. We align around a vision and a mission of what we're trying to do, and we run towards it. That's always been how we've operated.
Yeah. I get it. But I don't know. We align around a vision and a mission of what we're trying to do, and we run towards it. That's always been how we've operated.
Yeah, no, I mean, we're a company that puts a flag down around what we're doing, and we're going to go do it. It's like, put a wall in front of us, there's going to be a mark-shaped hole in the wall.
Yeah, no, I mean, we're a company that puts a flag down around what we're doing, and we're going to go do it. It's like, put a wall in front of us, there's going to be a mark-shaped hole in the wall.
I feel like you have a weekly challenge. I'm trying to do inspiring things. Yeah, I don't know. I'm also really competitive.
I feel like you have a weekly challenge. I'm trying to do inspiring things. Yeah, I don't know. I'm also really competitive.
What do you mean? I was just thinking about other things that I'm doing. What have I started doing? I got into all these more extreme sports and fighting and stuff. I don't know. We face a lot of competition and a lot of different aspects of what we do. There's the social media competitors. There's the platform competitors. I think Apple is a bigger competitor than people realize.
What do you mean? I was just thinking about other things that I'm doing. What have I started doing? I got into all these more extreme sports and fighting and stuff. I don't know. We face a lot of competition and a lot of different aspects of what we do. There's the social media competitors. There's the platform competitors. I think Apple is a bigger competitor than people realize.
They kind of think, hey, they're doing a different type of thing, but... I don't know. I think over the next 10, 15 years, I think that kind of, like, battle over, ideological battle over what should the architecture be of the next set of platforms. Are they going to be the closed, integrated model that Apple has always done?
They kind of think, hey, they're doing a different type of thing, but... I don't know. I think over the next 10, 15 years, I think that kind of, like, battle over, ideological battle over what should the architecture be of the next set of platforms. Are they going to be the closed, integrated model that Apple has always done?
I think there were a lot of people for whom, if you knew how painful it would be along the way you wouldn't get started. But then, you know, I think that that's one of the things that's good about human nature is you can underestimate how painful things are going to be, so that way you can go and do good things.
I think there were a lot of people for whom, if you knew how painful it would be along the way you wouldn't get started. But then, you know, I think that that's one of the things that's good about human nature is you can underestimate how painful things are going to be, so that way you can go and do good things.
Which, again, I mean, like, there's multiple good ways to build things, right? So I think if you look at the different generations of computing... PCs, mobile, they've all had sort of a closed, integrated version and an open version. And the thing that I think there's just a ton of recency bias around is because iPhone basically won.
Which, again, I mean, like, there's multiple good ways to build things, right? So I think if you look at the different generations of computing... PCs, mobile, they've all had sort of a closed, integrated version and an open version. And the thing that I think there's just a ton of recency bias around is because iPhone basically won.
I know that there are more Android phones out there, but iPhone is sort of like the intellectual leader and by far has all the rights in the industry.
I know that there are more Android phones out there, but iPhone is sort of like the intellectual leader and by far has all the rights in the industry.
CHRIS BROADFOOTIS- Yeah. I think that there's the recency bias, and probably almost everyone here has an iPhone. And I think because of the recency bias, there's sort of this view that's like, oh no, this is just the superior way to do things. But I don't actually think that's a given. In the PC era, Windows with the open ecosystem was the leader.
CHRIS BROADFOOTIS- Yeah. I think that there's the recency bias, and probably almost everyone here has an iPhone. And I think because of the recency bias, there's sort of this view that's like, oh no, this is just the superior way to do things. But I don't actually think that's a given. In the PC era, Windows with the open ecosystem was the leader.
And part of my goal for the next 10, 15 years, the next generation of platforms, is to build the next generation of open platforms and have the open platforms win. And I think that that's going to lead to a much more vibrant tech industry. Now, there are advantages of doing a closed and integrated model. I think Apple will have a place for sure. I expect them to be our primary competitor.
And part of my goal for the next 10, 15 years, the next generation of platforms, is to build the next generation of open platforms and have the open platforms win. And I think that that's going to lead to a much more vibrant tech industry. Now, there are advantages of doing a closed and integrated model. I think Apple will have a place for sure. I expect them to be our primary competitor.
And I think it will not be... just a product competition.
And I think it will not be... just a product competition.
I think it's in some ways very deeply values-driven and ideological competition around what the future of the tech industry should be and how open these platforms, whether it's things like Llama and AI or the glasses or different things, should be for developers, like an individual, someone getting started in their dorm room like me, to not have to ask for permission to go build the next set of awesome things.
I think it's in some ways very deeply values-driven and ideological competition around what the future of the tech industry should be and how open these platforms, whether it's things like Llama and AI or the glasses or different things, should be for developers, like an individual, someone getting started in their dorm room like me, to not have to ask for permission to go build the next set of awesome things.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, just do something that you care about, and if you're trying to run our strategy, try to learn as quickly as you can. But I think part of what I'm trying to say is, I think there are different ways to build stuff. It's like our way worked for me and our team. Different things have clearly worked for other companies. I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, just do something that you care about, and if you're trying to run our strategy, try to learn as quickly as you can. But I think part of what I'm trying to say is, I think there are different ways to build stuff. It's like our way worked for me and our team. Different things have clearly worked for other companies. I don't know.
One day my daughter, we took her to a Taylor Swift concert and she was like, you know, dad, I kind of want to be like Taylor Swift when I grow up. I was like, you can't. That's not available to you. I was like, but, and she thought about it, and she's like, all right, when I grow up, I want people to want to be like August Chan Zuckerberg. And I was like, hell yeah. Hell yeah.
One day my daughter, we took her to a Taylor Swift concert and she was like, you know, dad, I kind of want to be like Taylor Swift when I grow up. I was like, you can't. That's not available to you. I was like, but, and she thought about it, and she's like, all right, when I grow up, I want people to want to be like August Chan Zuckerberg. And I was like, hell yeah. Hell yeah.
So I think that that's, yeah, I don't know. I think it's like, look, learn from other people's successes and failures, but do your own thing.
So I think that that's, yeah, I don't know. I think it's like, look, learn from other people's successes and failures, but do your own thing.
I do. I used to only wear one type of shirt. Now I've moved on.
I do. I used to only wear one type of shirt. Now I've moved on.
Yeah, you know, I, um... I started working with people to design some of my own clothes. And so I figured, look, we're going to design eyewear. We're going to design other stuff that people wear. Let's get good at this. And so this one, I actually worked with this great fashion designer, Mike Amiri. And he's got a great story.
Yeah, you know, I, um... I started working with people to design some of my own clothes. And so I figured, look, we're going to design eyewear. We're going to design other stuff that people wear. Let's get good at this. And so this one, I actually worked with this great fashion designer, Mike Amiri. And he's got a great story.
So I wouldn't be surprised if you were doing one of these with him one day. This one is, so I've kind of started working on this series of shirts with some of my favorite classical sayings on them. So this one is pathémathos, learning through suffering. It's a little family saying and also Aeschylus.
So I wouldn't be surprised if you were doing one of these with him one day. This one is, so I've kind of started working on this series of shirts with some of my favorite classical sayings on them. So this one is pathémathos, learning through suffering. It's a little family saying and also Aeschylus.
Um... Well, I think you learn what matters to you and what's important and kind of your place in the world through repeatedly hitting your head against different challenges. And I mean, I think that that is sort of, that's the journey, right? I mean, that's the entrepreneurial journey. It's also, I think, part of the beauty of building things.
Um... Well, I think you learn what matters to you and what's important and kind of your place in the world through repeatedly hitting your head against different challenges. And I mean, I think that that is sort of, that's the journey, right? I mean, that's the entrepreneurial journey. It's also, I think, part of the beauty of building things.
But this is something that Jensen talks a lot about too, right? It's like, I feel like When you go to start a company, everyone kind of writes down what they would like their values to be. But values are not what you write down on the wall. It's like your lived behaviors. And you only really learn what you care about when you have to make hard trade-offs and face challenges.
But this is something that Jensen talks a lot about too, right? It's like, I feel like When you go to start a company, everyone kind of writes down what they would like their values to be. But values are not what you write down on the wall. It's like your lived behaviors. And you only really learn what you care about when you have to make hard trade-offs and face challenges.
So yeah, you learn the most important things through facing challenges.
So yeah, you learn the most important things through facing challenges.
You're still here. But first. I kind of think my, you know, like that old Nike Michael Jordan ad where he's talking about how he's failed over and over and over again and that's how he succeeds. That one really resonates with me too.
You're still here. But first. I kind of think my, you know, like that old Nike Michael Jordan ad where he's talking about how he's failed over and over and over again and that's how he succeeds. That one really resonates with me too.
Yeah, so thanks. I'm excited about them too. At Meta, we've been building social experiences for 20 years now. And originally, it took the form of a website, then mobile apps. But the thing is, I never thought about us as a social media company. We're not a social app company. We are a social connection company. We talk about what we're doing is building the future of human connection.
Yeah, so thanks. I'm excited about them too. At Meta, we've been building social experiences for 20 years now. And originally, it took the form of a website, then mobile apps. But the thing is, I never thought about us as a social media company. We're not a social app company. We are a social connection company. We talk about what we're doing is building the future of human connection.
That's not only going to be constrained over time to what you can do on a phone, on a small screen. So when you think about, when we got started, we were like a handful of kids. We weren't able, we didn't have the resources at the time to go define whatever the next computing platform is.
That's not only going to be constrained over time to what you can do on a phone, on a small screen. So when you think about, when we got started, we were like a handful of kids. We weren't able, we didn't have the resources at the time to go define whatever the next computing platform is.
And also, Facebook originally got started around the same time as a bunch of the early smartphones and those platforms got started. So we didn't really get to play any role in developing that platform.
And also, Facebook originally got started around the same time as a bunch of the early smartphones and those platforms got started. So we didn't really get to play any role in developing that platform.
And one of the big themes, I think, for the next chapter of what we do is I want to be able to build what I think are sort of the ideal experiences, not just what you're allowed to build on some platform that someone else built, but what is actually, if you can think from first principles, what is the ideal social experience? So I think what you would like to have
And one of the big themes, I think, for the next chapter of what we do is I want to be able to build what I think are sort of the ideal experiences, not just what you're allowed to build on some platform that someone else built, but what is actually, if you can think from first principles, what is the ideal social experience? So I think what you would like to have
It's not a phone that you look down at that kind of takes your attention away from the things and the people around you, not just a small screen. I think what you ideally have is glasses. Through the glasses, there's one part of it where the glasses, they can see what you see and they can hear what you hear.
It's not a phone that you look down at that kind of takes your attention away from the things and the people around you, not just a small screen. I think what you ideally have is glasses. Through the glasses, there's one part of it where the glasses, they can see what you see and they can hear what you hear.
And in doing so, they can be kind of the perfect AI assistant for you because they have context on what you're doing. But then part of that is also that the glasses can project images, basically like holograms, out into the world. And that way, your social experiences with other people aren't constrained to these little interactions you can have on a phone screen.
And in doing so, they can be kind of the perfect AI assistant for you because they have context on what you're doing. But then part of that is also that the glasses can project images, basically like holograms, out into the world. And that way, your social experiences with other people aren't constrained to these little interactions you can have on a phone screen.
In the not-so-distant future, you can imagine, because you guys have demoed some of the stuff that we've done, a version of this where we're having a conversation like this, but maybe one of us isn't even here. They're just like a hologram, and we have glasses. There's the question of... Delivering a realistic sense of presence.
In the not-so-distant future, you can imagine, because you guys have demoed some of the stuff that we've done, a version of this where we're having a conversation like this, but maybe one of us isn't even here. They're just like a hologram, and we have glasses. There's the question of... Delivering a realistic sense of presence.
There's something magical in the realm of building social experiences around the feeling of human presence and being there with another person and this physical perception where we're very physical beings. People like to intellectualize everything, but a lot of our experience is very physical.
There's something magical in the realm of building social experiences around the feeling of human presence and being there with another person and this physical perception where we're very physical beings. People like to intellectualize everything, but a lot of our experience is very physical.
This physical sense of presence that you're with another person doing things in the physical world is something that you're going to be able to do through holograms through glasses without being taken away from whatever else you're doing. Just kind of have that mixed in with the rest of the world. It's going to be, I think, the ultimate digital social experience.
This physical sense of presence that you're with another person doing things in the physical world is something that you're going to be able to do through holograms through glasses without being taken away from whatever else you're doing. Just kind of have that mixed in with the rest of the world. It's going to be, I think, the ultimate digital social experience.
And I think it's also going to be the ultimate incarnation of AI, because you're going to have conversations where it's like, all right, there's some people. It's like maybe I'm physically here. There's a person. You're a hologram there. There's an AI that is embodied as someone who is there. And the glasses will enable this. So how are we going after this, building this? This is some huge project.
And I think it's also going to be the ultimate incarnation of AI, because you're going to have conversations where it's like, all right, there's some people. It's like maybe I'm physically here. There's a person. You're a hologram there. There's an AI that is embodied as someone who is there. And the glasses will enable this. So how are we going after this, building this? This is some huge project.
We've been working on it for 10 years. And there are a lot of different challenges to solve to get there. You have to build a novel display stack. These aren't just screens like the kind that are in phones. There's this long lineage. They're connected to the screens that have been in TVs and monitors and things for a long time. There's been this massive optimization of the supply chain.
We've been working on it for 10 years. And there are a lot of different challenges to solve to get there. You have to build a novel display stack. These aren't just screens like the kind that are in phones. There's this long lineage. They're connected to the screens that have been in TVs and monitors and things for a long time. There's been this massive optimization of the supply chain.
There's brand new display stack around holographic displays that basically need to get created. And then they need to be put into glasses. They need to be miniaturized. And you also, in the glasses, need to fit chips, microphones, speakers, cameras, eye tracking to be able to understand what you're doing, batteries to make it last all day.
There's brand new display stack around holographic displays that basically need to get created. And then they need to be put into glasses. They need to be miniaturized. And you also, in the glasses, need to fit chips, microphones, speakers, cameras, eye tracking to be able to understand what you're doing, batteries to make it last all day.
MATT SULLIVAN- It's like, OK, it's a pretty big challenge. So we're like, all right, let's go try to go for the big thing. And we've been working on that for a while. And we're pretty close to being able to show off the first prototype that we have of that, and I'm really excited about that.
MATT SULLIVAN- It's like, OK, it's a pretty big challenge. So we're like, all right, let's go try to go for the big thing. And we've been working on that for a while. And we're pretty close to being able to show off the first prototype that we have of that, and I'm really excited about that.
At the same time, we also came at it from this lens of, all right, so that's a lot of new technology that needs to get developed, a lot to pack into a form factor, because the glasses have to be good looking, too. So what if we just constrain ourselves to like, we're gonna work with a great partner, Essilor Luxottica, they make Ray-Ban, they make a lot of the iconic glasses.
At the same time, we also came at it from this lens of, all right, so that's a lot of new technology that needs to get developed, a lot to pack into a form factor, because the glasses have to be good looking, too. So what if we just constrain ourselves to like, we're gonna work with a great partner, Essilor Luxottica, they make Ray-Ban, they make a lot of the iconic glasses.
Let's see what we can fit into glasses today and make them as useful as possible. And I actually, I kind of thought when we were getting started with those that it was almost like a practice project. for, like, for the ultimate AR.
Let's see what we can fit into glasses today and make them as useful as possible. And I actually, I kind of thought when we were getting started with those that it was almost like a practice project. for, like, for the ultimate AR.
That's true. That's true. Yeah, I did.
That's true. That's true. Yeah, I did.
Yeah, no, this is, yeah, let's go on a tangent there for a second. So I started Facebook in school, came out to Silicon Valley with Dustin and a handful of people working on it at the time. And we did that because Silicon Valley is where all the startups came from. And I remember we got off the plane. We were driving down 101. We're like, wow, eBay, Yahoo. This is amazing.
Yeah, no, this is, yeah, let's go on a tangent there for a second. So I started Facebook in school, came out to Silicon Valley with Dustin and a handful of people working on it at the time. And we did that because Silicon Valley is where all the startups came from. And I remember we got off the plane. We were driving down 101. We're like, wow, eBay, Yahoo. This is amazing.
All these great companies. One day, maybe we'll build a company like this. And I'd already started Facebook. And I was like, surely the project that we're working on now is not a company.
All these great companies. One day, maybe we'll build a company like this. And I'd already started Facebook. And I was like, surely the project that we're working on now is not a company.
Oh, no, no. It was a great project. I just didn't have the ambition to turn it into a company at the time. That just kind of happened. But anyway. Yeah, I mean, a lot of hard work, obviously. But just at the time, I was kind of like, yeah, I don't think this is it.
Oh, no, no. It was a great project. I just didn't have the ambition to turn it into a company at the time. That just kind of happened. But anyway. Yeah, I mean, a lot of hard work, obviously. But just at the time, I was kind of like, yeah, I don't think this is it.
I tried.
I tried.
It has Sunday ticket.
It has Sunday ticket.
Like... I mean, NASA didn't have a choice. Yeah, yeah.
Like... I mean, NASA didn't have a choice. Yeah, yeah.
Thank you, Emily.
Thank you, Emily.
Everybody, Jensen Wong.
Everybody, Jensen Wong.
It's great to be here. You know, I was watching Jensen's video, Correcting the Record, and I was thinking to myself, we might need to book the next one of these for all the things I'm going to have to apologize for that I'm going to say tonight.
It's great to be here. You know, I was watching Jensen's video, Correcting the Record, and I was thinking to myself, we might need to book the next one of these for all the things I'm going to have to apologize for that I'm going to say tonight.
I don't apologize anymore.
I don't apologize anymore.
Oh, God. I mean, look, I think... Coming out hot, David.
Oh, God. I mean, look, I think... Coming out hot, David.
Literally. I think there's something to Jensen's original sentiment, which is that the entrepreneurial journey is very challenging, especially the early days when you're running a startup and you know there's the sense that what you're doing could just die at any moment and the volatility everything is just getting thrashed so much and it's not
Literally. I think there's something to Jensen's original sentiment, which is that the entrepreneurial journey is very challenging, especially the early days when you're running a startup and you know there's the sense that what you're doing could just die at any moment and the volatility everything is just getting thrashed so much and it's not
You obviously look back, you have all these fond memories, but it was not the most fun part of the journey, or the part of my life that I wish I could go back and relive. I do think that there's something to what Jensen was saying that I thought was very honest, and that when I heard him say it the first time, I was like, yeah, I get that.
You obviously look back, you have all these fond memories, but it was not the most fun part of the journey, or the part of my life that I wish I could go back and relive. I do think that there's something to what Jensen was saying that I thought was very honest, and that when I heard him say it the first time, I was like, yeah, I get that.
I think there were a lot of people for whom, if you knew how painful it would be along the way you wouldn't get started. But then, you know, I think that that's one of the things that's good about human nature is you can underestimate how painful things are going to be so that way you can go and do good things.
I think there were a lot of people for whom, if you knew how painful it would be along the way you wouldn't get started. But then, you know, I think that that's one of the things that's good about human nature is you can underestimate how painful things are going to be so that way you can go and do good things.
Yeah, you know, I, um... I started working with people to design some of my own clothes. And so I figured, look, we're going to design eyewear. We're going to design other stuff that people wear. Let's get good at this. And so this one, I actually worked with this great fashion designer, Mike Amiri. And he's got a great story.
Yeah, you know, I, um... I started working with people to design some of my own clothes. And so I figured, look, we're going to design eyewear. We're going to design other stuff that people wear. Let's get good at this. And so this one, I actually worked with this great fashion designer, Mike Amiri. And he's got a great story.
So I wouldn't be surprised if you were doing one of these with him one day. This one is, so I've kind of started working on this series of shirts with some of my favorite classical sayings on them. So this one is pathémathos, learning through suffering. It's a little family saying and also Aeschylus.
So I wouldn't be surprised if you were doing one of these with him one day. This one is, so I've kind of started working on this series of shirts with some of my favorite classical sayings on them. So this one is pathémathos, learning through suffering. It's a little family saying and also Aeschylus.
Um... Well, I think you learn what matters to you and what's important and kind of your place in the world through repeatedly hitting your head against different challenges. And I mean, I think that that is sort of, that's the journey, right? I mean, that's the entrepreneurial journey. It's also, I think, part of the beauty of building things.
Um... Well, I think you learn what matters to you and what's important and kind of your place in the world through repeatedly hitting your head against different challenges. And I mean, I think that that is sort of, that's the journey, right? I mean, that's the entrepreneurial journey. It's also, I think, part of the beauty of building things.
But this is something that Jensen talks a lot about too, right? It's like, I feel like When you go to start a company, everyone kind of writes down what they would like their values to be. But values are not what you write down on the wall. It's like your lived behaviors. And you only really learn what you care about when you have to make hard trade-offs and face challenges.
But this is something that Jensen talks a lot about too, right? It's like, I feel like When you go to start a company, everyone kind of writes down what they would like their values to be. But values are not what you write down on the wall. It's like your lived behaviors. And you only really learn what you care about when you have to make hard trade-offs and face challenges.
So yeah, you learn the most important things through facing challenges.
So yeah, you learn the most important things through facing challenges.
You're still here. But first... I kind of think my... You know like that old Nike Michael Jordan ad where he's talking about how he's failed over and over and over again and that's how he succeeds? That one really resonates with me too.
You're still here. But first... I kind of think my... You know like that old Nike Michael Jordan ad where he's talking about how he's failed over and over and over again and that's how he succeeds? That one really resonates with me too.
Yeah, so... Thanks, I'm excited about them too. So, you know, at Meta we've been building social experiences for 20 years now. And originally it took the form of a website, then mobile apps. But the thing is, I never thought about us as a social media company. We're not a social app company. We are a... a social connection company, right?
Yeah, so... Thanks, I'm excited about them too. So, you know, at Meta we've been building social experiences for 20 years now. And originally it took the form of a website, then mobile apps. But the thing is, I never thought about us as a social media company. We're not a social app company. We are a... a social connection company, right?
I mean, we talk about what we're doing is building the future of human connection. And that's not only going to be constrained over time to what you can do on a phone, right, on a small screen. So when you think about, you know, when we got started, okay, we're like a handful of kids.
I mean, we talk about what we're doing is building the future of human connection. And that's not only going to be constrained over time to what you can do on a phone, right, on a small screen. So when you think about, you know, when we got started, okay, we're like a handful of kids.
You know, we weren't able, we didn't have the resources at the time to go define whatever the next computing platform is. And also, you know, Facebook originally got started around the same time as a bunch of the early smartphones and those platforms got started. So we didn't really get to play any role in developing that platform.
You know, we weren't able, we didn't have the resources at the time to go define whatever the next computing platform is. And also, you know, Facebook originally got started around the same time as a bunch of the early smartphones and those platforms got started. So we didn't really get to play any role in developing that platform.
And one of the big themes, I think, for the next chapter of what we do is I want to be able to build what I think are sort of the ideal experiences, not just what you're allowed to build on some platform that someone else built, but what is actually, if you can think from first principles, what is the ideal social experience?
And one of the big themes, I think, for the next chapter of what we do is I want to be able to build what I think are sort of the ideal experiences, not just what you're allowed to build on some platform that someone else built, but what is actually, if you can think from first principles, what is the ideal social experience?
So I think what you would like to have is not a phone that you look down at that kind of takes your attention away from the things and the people around you, not just a small screen. I think what you ideally have is glasses. Through the glasses, there's one part of it where the glasses, they can see what you see and they can hear what you hear.
So I think what you would like to have is not a phone that you look down at that kind of takes your attention away from the things and the people around you, not just a small screen. I think what you ideally have is glasses. Through the glasses, there's one part of it where the glasses, they can see what you see and they can hear what you hear.
And in doing so, they can be kind of the perfect AI assistant for you because they have context on what you're doing. But then part of that is also that the glasses can project images, basically like holograms, out into the world. And that way, your social experiences with other people aren't constrained to these little interactions you can have on a phone screen.
And in doing so, they can be kind of the perfect AI assistant for you because they have context on what you're doing. But then part of that is also that the glasses can project images, basically like holograms, out into the world. And that way, your social experiences with other people aren't constrained to these little interactions you can have on a phone screen.
In the not-so-distant future, you can imagine, because you guys have demoed some of the stuff that we've done, a version of this where we're having a conversation like this, but maybe one of us isn't even here. They're just like a hologram, and we have glasses. There's the question of... Delivering a realistic sense of presence.
In the not-so-distant future, you can imagine, because you guys have demoed some of the stuff that we've done, a version of this where we're having a conversation like this, but maybe one of us isn't even here. They're just like a hologram, and we have glasses. There's the question of... Delivering a realistic sense of presence.
There's something magical in the realm of building social experiences around the feeling of human presence and being there with another person and this physical perception where we're very physical beings. People like to intellectualize everything, but a lot of our experience is very physical.
There's something magical in the realm of building social experiences around the feeling of human presence and being there with another person and this physical perception where we're very physical beings. People like to intellectualize everything, but a lot of our experience is very physical.
This physical sense of presence that you're with another person doing things in the physical world is something that you're going to be able to do through holograms through glasses without being taken away from whatever else you're doing. Just kind of have that mixed in with the rest of the world. It's going to be, I think, the ultimate digital social experience.
This physical sense of presence that you're with another person doing things in the physical world is something that you're going to be able to do through holograms through glasses without being taken away from whatever else you're doing. Just kind of have that mixed in with the rest of the world. It's going to be, I think, the ultimate digital social experience.
And I think it's also going to be the ultimate incarnation of AI, because you're going to have conversations where it's like, all right, there's some people. It's like maybe I'm physically here. There's a person. You're a hologram there. There's an AI that is embodied as someone who is there. And the glasses will enable this. So how are we going after this, building this? This is some huge project.
And I think it's also going to be the ultimate incarnation of AI, because you're going to have conversations where it's like, all right, there's some people. It's like maybe I'm physically here. There's a person. You're a hologram there. There's an AI that is embodied as someone who is there. And the glasses will enable this. So how are we going after this, building this? This is some huge project.
We've been working on it for 10 years. And there are a lot of different challenges to solve to get there. You have to build a novel display stack. These aren't just screens like the kind that are in phones. There's this long lineage. They're connected to the screens that have been in TVs and monitors and things for a long time. There's been this massive optimization of the supply chain.
We've been working on it for 10 years. And there are a lot of different challenges to solve to get there. You have to build a novel display stack. These aren't just screens like the kind that are in phones. There's this long lineage. They're connected to the screens that have been in TVs and monitors and things for a long time. There's been this massive optimization of the supply chain.
There's brand new display stack around holographic displays that basically need to get created. And then they need to be put into glasses. They need to be miniaturized. And you also, in the glasses, need to fit chips, microphones, speakers, cameras, eye-tracking to be able to understand what you're doing, batteries to make it last all day.
There's brand new display stack around holographic displays that basically need to get created. And then they need to be put into glasses. They need to be miniaturized. And you also, in the glasses, need to fit chips, microphones, speakers, cameras, eye-tracking to be able to understand what you're doing, batteries to make it last all day.
DAN GALPIN- Yeah, it's like, OK, it's a pretty big challenge. So we're like, all right, let's go try to go for the big thing. And we've been working on that for a while. And we're pretty close to being able to show off the first prototype that we have of that, and I'm really excited about that.
DAN GALPIN- Yeah, it's like, OK, it's a pretty big challenge. So we're like, all right, let's go try to go for the big thing. And we've been working on that for a while. And we're pretty close to being able to show off the first prototype that we have of that, and I'm really excited about that.
At the same time, we also came at it from this lens of, all right, so that's a lot of new technology that needs to get developed, a lot to pack into a form factor, because the glasses have to be good looking, too. So what if we just constrain ourselves to like, we're gonna work with a great partner, Essilor Luxottica, they make Ray-Ban, they make a lot of the iconic glasses.
At the same time, we also came at it from this lens of, all right, so that's a lot of new technology that needs to get developed, a lot to pack into a form factor, because the glasses have to be good looking, too. So what if we just constrain ourselves to like, we're gonna work with a great partner, Essilor Luxottica, they make Ray-Ban, they make a lot of the iconic glasses.
Let's see what we can fit into glasses today and make them as useful as possible. And I actually, I kind of thought when we were getting started with those that it was almost like a practice project. for, like, for the ultimate AR.
Let's see what we can fit into glasses today and make them as useful as possible. And I actually, I kind of thought when we were getting started with those that it was almost like a practice project. for, like, for the ultimate AR.
That's true. That's true. Yeah, I did.
That's true. That's true. Yeah, I did.
That's true. Yeah, no, this is, yeah, let's go on a tangent there for a second. So I started Facebook in school, came out to Silicon Valley with Dustin and a handful of people working on it at the time. And we did that because Silicon Valley is where all the startups came from. And I remember we got off the plane. We were driving down 101. We're like, wow, eBay, Yahoo. Like, this is amazing.
That's true. Yeah, no, this is, yeah, let's go on a tangent there for a second. So I started Facebook in school, came out to Silicon Valley with Dustin and a handful of people working on it at the time. And we did that because Silicon Valley is where all the startups came from. And I remember we got off the plane. We were driving down 101. We're like, wow, eBay, Yahoo. Like, this is amazing.
All these great companies. One day, maybe we'll build a company like this. And I'd already started Facebook. And I was like, surely the project that we're working on now is not a company.
All these great companies. One day, maybe we'll build a company like this. And I'd already started Facebook. And I was like, surely the project that we're working on now is not a company.
Oh, no, no. It was a great project. I just didn't have the ambition to turn it into a company at the time. That just kind of happened. But anyway. Yeah, I mean... A lot of hard work, obviously. But just at the time, I was kind of like, yeah, I don't think this is it.
Oh, no, no. It was a great project. I just didn't have the ambition to turn it into a company at the time. That just kind of happened. But anyway. Yeah, I mean... A lot of hard work, obviously. But just at the time, I was kind of like, yeah, I don't think this is it.
I didn't know. So yeah, so I mean, the glasses though, you know, we thought that this was like, all right, we want to get working with Estee Lauder Luxottica so we can start building more and more advanced glasses. And then, you know, they're really good. They look good. And then AI, like the massive transformation in AI.
I didn't know. So yeah, so I mean, the glasses though, you know, we thought that this was like, all right, we want to get working with Estee Lauder Luxottica so we can start building more and more advanced glasses. And then, you know, they're really good. They look good. And then AI, like the massive transformation in AI.
Yeah, a few years ago, I would have predicted that AR holograms would have been available before kind of like full-scale AI. And now I think it's probably going to be the other order. So now it's like, all right, great. Well, this is actually a great product because it's got the cameras so it can see what you see. It's got the microphone. It's got the speakers. You can talk to it.
Yeah, a few years ago, I would have predicted that AR holograms would have been available before kind of like full-scale AI. And now I think it's probably going to be the other order. So now it's like, all right, great. Well, this is actually a great product because it's got the cameras so it can see what you see. It's got the microphone. It's got the speakers. You can talk to it.
I remember calling Alex Himmel, the guy who runs the product group that's running it, and I'm like, Hey, you know, I think we should probably pivot this and make it so that Meta AI is the primary feature of it. And then, like, I remember I came in the next week and they built a prototype of it on Tuesday. And it was like, all right, good. Yeah, no, this is good.
I remember calling Alex Himmel, the guy who runs the product group that's running it, and I'm like, Hey, you know, I think we should probably pivot this and make it so that Meta AI is the primary feature of it. And then, like, I remember I came in the next week and they built a prototype of it on Tuesday. And it was like, all right, good. Yeah, no, this is good.
This is going to be a very successful product.
This is going to be a very successful product.
Yeah, that tracks. That's what I just said. Sounds right.
Yeah, that tracks. That's what I just said. Sounds right.
I think it's that we're a technology company that is focused on human connection, not a specific type of app. So we never thought about ourselves as a website or a social network or anything like that.
I think it's that we're a technology company that is focused on human connection, not a specific type of app. So we never thought about ourselves as a website or a social network or anything like that.
For me, building this kind of glasses to enable the future of people being able to feel present with another person no matter where they actually physically are is the natural continuation of the kind of apps that we build today. But it depends on how you define what you are. And then you need to figure out well, how do you give yourself the competence to actually go do that?
For me, building this kind of glasses to enable the future of people being able to feel present with another person no matter where they actually physically are is the natural continuation of the kind of apps that we build today. But it depends on how you define what you are. And then you need to figure out well, how do you give yourself the competence to actually go do that?
And that's where I think being a strong technology company comes in. Because, you know, a lot of companies, I think, think about themselves too narrowly in terms of, okay, well, we're this kind of one thing, and the reason why we can build all these things is because we have a really strong technology foundation. And some of that is just... me and how I think about stuff.
And that's where I think being a strong technology company comes in. Because, you know, a lot of companies, I think, think about themselves too narrowly in terms of, okay, well, we're this kind of one thing, and the reason why we can build all these things is because we have a really strong technology foundation. And some of that is just... me and how I think about stuff.
I was an engineer before I got started. I mostly took systems engineering type classes when I was in college. So you talk about Friendster and MySpace and all the scaling challenges they had doing the graph calculations of like, all right, do you know this person? Should you show them their page?
I was an engineer before I got started. I mostly took systems engineering type classes when I was in college. So you talk about Friendster and MySpace and all the scaling challenges they had doing the graph calculations of like, all right, do you know this person? Should you show them their page?
So I think it's a combination of a product question and a technology question. I think you can define the product in such a general way that the technology becomes basically impossible to solve. So you want to have a smart product definition, but then you want to be competent and better than everyone else at the technology.
So I think it's a combination of a product question and a technology question. I think you can define the product in such a general way that the technology becomes basically impossible to solve. So you want to have a smart product definition, but then you want to be competent and better than everyone else at the technology.
And I think that that's something that we've held ourselves to and built a good organization around. And it's one of the things that I... observed as soon as I came out to the Valley, that all these companies that called themselves technology companies were not really set up that way. The companies I was talking about, it's like, The CEO wasn't technical.
And I think that that's something that we've held ourselves to and built a good organization around. And it's one of the things that I... observed as soon as I came out to the Valley, that all these companies that called themselves technology companies were not really set up that way. The companies I was talking about, it's like, The CEO wasn't technical.
The board of directors had no one technical on it. They had one dude on the management team who was the head of engineering who was technical, and everyone else wasn't. It's like, all right, if that's your team, then you're not a technology company. So I think one of the things that I've always been pretty careful about is I actually want...
The board of directors had no one technical on it. They had one dude on the management team who was the head of engineering who was technical, and everyone else wasn't. It's like, all right, if that's your team, then you're not a technology company. So I think one of the things that I've always been pretty careful about is I actually want...
like a lot of the people on our management team, it's like, you know, splits mostly people running either these big product groups who've come up through different technical pathways at the company. And I think that there's like a balance, right? It's like, you don't want everyone to be an engineer because there's other things that matter too.
like a lot of the people on our management team, it's like, you know, splits mostly people running either these big product groups who've come up through different technical pathways at the company. And I think that there's like a balance, right? It's like, you don't want everyone to be an engineer because there's other things that matter too.
But if you don't have enough of your kind of share of the company as engineers, then you're not a technology company. And I think that that also is important to the board. And I think it just like in terms of how you weigh decisions and culturally things inside the company matters a lot. But I think that that's one of the things that has been really fundamental, right?
But if you don't have enough of your kind of share of the company as engineers, then you're not a technology company. And I think that that also is important to the board. And I think it just like in terms of how you weigh decisions and culturally things inside the company matters a lot. But I think that that's one of the things that has been really fundamental, right?
It's like we're able to kind of go from platform to platform and do these different things because we've invested and cared about the underlying technology. The product experiences that we build on top of that are an implementation and they matter. And for that, I think we also, I think are a pretty curious and learning focused organization where
It's like we're able to kind of go from platform to platform and do these different things because we've invested and cared about the underlying technology. The product experiences that we build on top of that are an implementation and they matter. And for that, I think we also, I think are a pretty curious and learning focused organization where
You know, I view the product strategy less as any one specific thing and more as how do we iterate and learn as quickly as possible how to make each thing better for the people we're trying to serve. So I define our strategy as we can learn faster than every other company. We're going to win.
You know, I view the product strategy less as any one specific thing and more as how do we iterate and learn as quickly as possible how to make each thing better for the people we're trying to serve. So I define our strategy as we can learn faster than every other company. We're going to win.
We're going to build a better product than everyone else because we're going to get it out first or early. We're going to have a good feedback loop. We're going to get a bunch of feedback. We're going to learn what people like better than other people.
We're going to build a better product than everyone else because we're going to get it out first or early. We're going to have a good feedback loop. We're going to get a bunch of feedback. We're going to learn what people like better than other people.
And then over time, by the time you get to, whether it's version 3 or 4 or 5, I mean, they're not even discrete versions because you ship so frequently. It's you just... you learn faster. So that's basically the formula. Be a technology company, build good foundation, learn from what people are kind of focused on in the world, and iterate as quickly as you can.
And then over time, by the time you get to, whether it's version 3 or 4 or 5, I mean, they're not even discrete versions because you ship so frequently. It's you just... you learn faster. So that's basically the formula. Be a technology company, build good foundation, learn from what people are kind of focused on in the world, and iterate as quickly as you can.
But you're very generous. Well, but that's the thing. Part of it is like, OK, you want to set up the game so that way you optimize, you create your luck.
But you're very generous. Well, but that's the thing. Part of it is like, OK, you want to set up the game so that way you optimize, you create your luck.
Well, great engineering and speed and iteration are actually two different values. They're not necessarily at odds, but I think there are a lot of great engineering organizations that try to build things that are super high quality and have good competence around that. But there's a certain... personality that goes with taking your stuff and putting it out there before it's fully polished.
Well, great engineering and speed and iteration are actually two different values. They're not necessarily at odds, but I think there are a lot of great engineering organizations that try to build things that are super high quality and have good competence around that. But there's a certain... personality that goes with taking your stuff and putting it out there before it's fully polished.
And look, I'm not saying that our strategy or approach on this is the only one that works. I think in a lot of ways, we're the opposite of Apple. And clearly, their stuff has worked really well, too. But they take this approach. It's like, we're going to take a long time. We're going to polish it. We're going to put it out.
And look, I'm not saying that our strategy or approach on this is the only one that works. I think in a lot of ways, we're the opposite of Apple. And clearly, their stuff has worked really well, too. But they take this approach. It's like, we're going to take a long time. We're going to polish it. We're going to put it out.
And maybe for the stuff that they're doing that works, maybe that just fits with their culture. But for us, I think that there are a lot of conversations that we have internally where you're almost at the line of being embarrassed about what you put out. You want to put stuff out early enough so you can get good feedback. you obviously want to test things that are reasonable hypotheses.
And maybe for the stuff that they're doing that works, maybe that just fits with their culture. But for us, I think that there are a lot of conversations that we have internally where you're almost at the line of being embarrassed about what you put out. You want to put stuff out early enough so you can get good feedback. you obviously want to test things that are reasonable hypotheses.
So if it's so ineffective, then you're not testing a good hypothesis. That doesn't work. But I do think a lot of the conversations that we have are like, OK, well, we can get this to be a lot better if we work on it for another couple of months or whatever.
So if it's so ineffective, then you're not testing a good hypothesis. That doesn't work. But I do think a lot of the conversations that we have are like, OK, well, we can get this to be a lot better if we work on it for another couple of months or whatever.
I do just think that you want to really have a culture that values shipping and getting things out and getting feedback more than needing always to get great positive accolades from people when you put stuff out.
I do just think that you want to really have a culture that values shipping and getting things out and getting feedback more than needing always to get great positive accolades from people when you put stuff out.
Because I think if you want to wait until you get praised all the time, you're missing a bunch of the time when you could have learned a bunch of useful stuff and then incorporated that into the next version you were going to ship.
Because I think if you want to wait until you get praised all the time, you're missing a bunch of the time when you could have learned a bunch of useful stuff and then incorporated that into the next version you were going to ship.
Well, I would like to hope that it's not damaging to the brand, but... Well, but innately it is.
Well, I would like to hope that it's not damaging to the brand, but... Well, but innately it is.
Yeah, I don't want to overstate it. I mean, we don't ship things that we think are bad, but we also don't take... We want to make sure that we're shipping things that... that are kind of early enough that we can get good feedback to see what they're going to be most used for.
Yeah, I don't want to overstate it. I mean, we don't ship things that we think are bad, but we also don't take... We want to make sure that we're shipping things that... that are kind of early enough that we can get good feedback to see what they're going to be most used for.
Like, I think a lot of the AI stuff that we're building now, for example, it actually, you know, it's pretty clear that AI is going to be transformative for a lot of different things. It is actually less clear what are going to be the initial use cases for a lot of these things that are super valuable.
Like, I think a lot of the AI stuff that we're building now, for example, it actually, you know, it's pretty clear that AI is going to be transformative for a lot of different things. It is actually less clear what are going to be the initial use cases for a lot of these things that are super valuable.
And so, okay, part of it is like, okay, you put something out, you want to kind of collect feedback and what people are actually, what it's, you know, where it's resonating. Now, if If what you put out is bad, then you're not going to collect good data because people aren't going to use it for anything because it sucks.
And so, okay, part of it is like, okay, you put something out, you want to kind of collect feedback and what people are actually, what it's, you know, where it's resonating. Now, if If what you put out is bad, then you're not going to collect good data because people aren't going to use it for anything because it sucks.
But I do think that you have hypotheses for what people might really want to use it for. And they're not all going to be right. And you want to kind of go early enough on that as more, yeah.
But I do think that you have hypotheses for what people might really want to use it for. And they're not all going to be right. And you want to kind of go early enough on that as more, yeah.
Does it have to be one or the other? I mean, I think it's a combination. I think you're basically taking some kind of values, either kind of like values that you have or a value for something that you believe should exist in the world and trying to build something that's aligned with that while trying to match it up with what is going to resonate the most with people.
Does it have to be one or the other? I mean, I think it's a combination. I think you're basically taking some kind of values, either kind of like values that you have or a value for something that you believe should exist in the world and trying to build something that's aligned with that while trying to match it up with what is going to resonate the most with people.
I think if you just do the latter, then I think you just don't have enough conviction to see through hard things. And if you just do the former, then you probably don't get to product market fit or optimize what you do because you're not focused enough on your customers. So I think both probably matter. Yeah.
I think if you just do the latter, then I think you just don't have enough conviction to see through hard things. And if you just do the former, then you probably don't get to product market fit or optimize what you do because you're not focused enough on your customers. So I think both probably matter. Yeah.
I mean, I think that there's There's certainly a lot of things that we've invented or created for the first time. I mean, in 2006, when we built the first version of News Feed, before that, social networks were basically profiles. And then we were like, hey, people actually kind of want to get the updates. And let's show them that. And if we rank them, then we can.
I mean, I think that there's There's certainly a lot of things that we've invented or created for the first time. I mean, in 2006, when we built the first version of News Feed, before that, social networks were basically profiles. And then we were like, hey, people actually kind of want to get the updates. And let's show them that. And if we rank them, then we can.
There's so many updates that this can help people parse through that quickly. And today, it's hard to imagine any social product without a feed. So I think that that's obviously there. Some of these things are sort of seminal. I don't want to call it an invention, but like patterns that we basically established first.
There's so many updates that this can help people parse through that quickly. And today, it's hard to imagine any social product without a feed. So I think that that's obviously there. Some of these things are sort of seminal. I don't want to call it an invention, but like patterns that we basically established first.
And then some of them are ones that other people did where we take pride in learning from what is working in the world. You know, we're not embarrassed about learning from things that other people like discovered that were good first. And then we build a better version of it. And I mean, I think that that's, You know, no one company is going to invent everything.
And then some of them are ones that other people did where we take pride in learning from what is working in the world. You know, we're not embarrassed about learning from things that other people like discovered that were good first. And then we build a better version of it. And I mean, I think that that's, You know, no one company is going to invent everything.
I think if you don't invent anything, then it's hard to kind of be a successful company. But I do think that there's a mix of this. There are more smart people outside of your company than inside your company.
I think if you don't invent anything, then it's hard to kind of be a successful company. But I do think that there's a mix of this. There are more smart people outside of your company than inside your company.
If you're not learning from what's going on in the market, then you're missing a lot of opportunities to get valuable signal from people in the community and customers about what they want you to be doing.
If you're not learning from what's going on in the market, then you're missing a lot of opportunities to get valuable signal from people in the community and customers about what they want you to be doing.
I think almost all of the major technology companies at this point are primarily using open source stacks. So yeah, I mean, we wouldn't have been able to get built without open source. I think probably that's true for any new company that's been created since like, I don't know, the late 1990s or something. For us, open source has been important and valuable.
I think almost all of the major technology companies at this point are primarily using open source stacks. So yeah, I mean, we wouldn't have been able to get built without open source. I think probably that's true for any new company that's been created since like, I don't know, the late 1990s or something. For us, open source has been important and valuable.
Yeah, yeah. No, and it's great. It makes it super easy to develop stuff quickly and iterate quickly. But we've also had an interesting relationship with this because, sequentially, as a company, we came after Google. So Google was the first of the great companies that built this distributed computing infrastructure. So they came first.
Yeah, yeah. No, and it's great. It makes it super easy to develop stuff quickly and iterate quickly. But we've also had an interesting relationship with this because, sequentially, as a company, we came after Google. So Google was the first of the great companies that built this distributed computing infrastructure. So they came first.
They were like, all right, let's keep this proprietary because it's a big advantage for us. And then we're like, all right, we need that too. But we built it. And then we're like, OK, not an advantage for us because Google already has that. So we might as well just make it open. And by making it open, then you basically get this whole community of people building around it.
They were like, all right, let's keep this proprietary because it's a big advantage for us. And then we're like, all right, we need that too. But we built it. And then we're like, OK, not an advantage for us because Google already has that. So we might as well just make it open. And by making it open, then you basically get this whole community of people building around it.
So it wasn't going to help us compete with Google for, any of the stuff that we were doing to have that technology. But what we were able to do with things like Open Compute were get it to become the industry standard. So now you have all these other cloud service platforms that basically use Open Compute.
So it wasn't going to help us compete with Google for, any of the stuff that we were doing to have that technology. But what we were able to do with things like Open Compute were get it to become the industry standard. So now you have all these other cloud service platforms that basically use Open Compute.
And because of that, the supply chain is standardized around our designs, which means that it's way more supply, way cheaper to produce. We've saved billions of dollars. And the quality of the stuff that we get to use goes up. So all right, that's like a win-win. I think in order for this to work, we do a lot of open source stuff. We do a lot of closed source stuff. I'm not like a zealot on this.
And because of that, the supply chain is standardized around our designs, which means that it's way more supply, way cheaper to produce. We've saved billions of dollars. And the quality of the stuff that we get to use goes up. So all right, that's like a win-win. I think in order for this to work, we do a lot of open source stuff. We do a lot of closed source stuff. I'm not like a zealot on this.
I think open source is very valuable. But I also think it sort of makes sense for us because of our position in the market. And the same for AI. I'm going to run long.
I think open source is very valuable. But I also think it sort of makes sense for us because of our position in the market. And the same for AI. I'm going to run long.
Yeah. You know, similar deal. You know, we want to make sure that we have access to a leading AI model, right? I think just like we want to build the hardware so that we can build the best social experiences for the next 20 years, I don't think that... You know, for us, it's like we've just been... We've been through too much stuff with the other platforms to fully depend on anyone else.
Yeah. You know, similar deal. You know, we want to make sure that we have access to a leading AI model, right? I think just like we want to build the hardware so that we can build the best social experiences for the next 20 years, I don't think that... You know, for us, it's like we've just been... We've been through too much stuff with the other platforms to fully depend on anyone else.
And we're a big enough company at this point that we don't have to. We can build our own core technology platforms, whether that's going to be AR glasses or mixed reality or AI. So I think that's somewhat of an imperative for us to go do that. But these things are not like pieces of software that are monolithic. They're ecosystems. They get better when other people use them. So for us,
And we're a big enough company at this point that we don't have to. We can build our own core technology platforms, whether that's going to be AR glasses or mixed reality or AI. So I think that's somewhat of an imperative for us to go do that. But these things are not like pieces of software that are monolithic. They're ecosystems. They get better when other people use them. So for us,
There's a huge amount of good, and it philosophically lines up with where we are. I mean, look, I definitely firsthand have a lot of experiences where you're trying to build stuff on mobile platforms, and the platforms are just like, nah, you can't build that. That's frustrating.
There's a huge amount of good, and it philosophically lines up with where we are. I mean, look, I definitely firsthand have a lot of experiences where you're trying to build stuff on mobile platforms, and the platforms are just like, nah, you can't build that. That's frustrating.
What's up?
What's up?
We can take a detour.
We can take a detour.
Okay, this is quite a detour. Quite a detour.
Okay, this is quite a detour. Quite a detour.
I'm sorry. I was like really wound up.
I'm sorry. I was like really wound up.
It was a pretty different technical issue. So I mean, our legacy was building on web for websites. And we were very used to building one thing and being able to continuously deploy it. And it fits with our iteration style and all that. So now, all of a sudden, this app model comes along. And it's like, we have to build, like, different ones for each phone.
It was a pretty different technical issue. So I mean, our legacy was building on web for websites. And we were very used to building one thing and being able to continuously deploy it. And it fits with our iteration style and all that. So now, all of a sudden, this app model comes along. And it's like, we have to build, like, different ones for each phone.
And you have to go through approval to get it shipped. And we have to wait weeks before it can ship. It's like, this sucks. So we're like, all right, we have an idea. Let's build this platform where we can get a web-based platform. So you basically build a native shell. And you build this web-based platform in it. And we'll be able to just update our apps every day. And we'll ship one thing once.
And you have to go through approval to get it shipped. And we have to wait weeks before it can ship. It's like, this sucks. So we're like, all right, we have an idea. Let's build this platform where we can get a web-based platform. So you basically build a native shell. And you build this web-based platform in it. And we'll be able to just update our apps every day. And we'll ship one thing once.
And we'll update our apps across Android and iPhone. Blackberry and Windows Mobile and all the stuff that existed at the time because it hadn't gotten consolidated yet. And we're like, basically, whatever downside we are going to have from not having the most native thing, we're going to make up for in velocity and by having way more of our energy focused on one platform. Well, we were wrong.
And we'll update our apps across Android and iPhone. Blackberry and Windows Mobile and all the stuff that existed at the time because it hadn't gotten consolidated yet. And we're like, basically, whatever downside we are going to have from not having the most native thing, we're going to make up for in velocity and by having way more of our energy focused on one platform. Well, we were wrong.
It turned out that having the native integration was actually critical for having the interactions feel good. So we basically went through this period where we had to go rewrite our apps from scratch. And that coincided with mobile growing dramatically. And mobile, we didn't have any revenue. because it may seem like it's pretty similar, but there's a very big difference.
It turned out that having the native integration was actually critical for having the interactions feel good. So we basically went through this period where we had to go rewrite our apps from scratch. And that coincided with mobile growing dramatically. And mobile, we didn't have any revenue. because it may seem like it's pretty similar, but there's a very big difference.
On desktop, you basically have the app, and you have a column on the side that we could put ads. And on mobile, we needed to figure out what does it mean to put ads into the experience?
On desktop, you basically have the app, and you have a column on the side that we could put ads. And on mobile, we needed to figure out what does it mean to put ads into the experience?
Yeah, that was something that the team did. Yeah, and advertisers have specific formats that they like working with, and the idea that we were just going to be like, all right, now your ad is going to look like a feed story was a big challenge for advertisers.
Yeah, that was something that the team did. Yeah, and advertisers have specific formats that they like working with, and the idea that we were just going to be like, all right, now your ad is going to look like a feed story was a big challenge for advertisers.
And the idea that now for people, you were going to have this organic feed that was the most important part of the product, and now we're just going to start putting ads in it was a challenge for the people using the product. We needed to figure that out, and we needed to get the apps to be better. And we basically took, I think it must have been like a year or something.
And the idea that now for people, you were going to have this organic feed that was the most important part of the product, and now we're just going to start putting ads in it was a challenge for the people using the product. We needed to figure that out, and we needed to get the apps to be better. And we basically took, I think it must have been like a year or something.
We were just like, look, we're going to pause feature development of the company because it's hard enough to do a rewrite. If you look at the history of the tech industry, there are all these examples like Netscape and all these things that they tried to do a rewrite. They needed to reestablish their technical platform, and they also tried to add features. They basically just never terminated.
We were just like, look, we're going to pause feature development of the company because it's hard enough to do a rewrite. If you look at the history of the tech industry, there are all these examples like Netscape and all these things that they tried to do a rewrite. They needed to reestablish their technical platform, and they also tried to add features. They basically just never terminated.
So that's a real risk when you're completely changing your underlying platform that you're going to miss it. I was like, all right, we've got to minimize the chance that that happens. So we're not going to ship any new features. We're just going to rewrite it, make it faster. But while we're doing this, basically mobile is growing. So the percent of our traffic that is monetizable
So that's a real risk when you're completely changing your underlying platform that you're going to miss it. I was like, all right, we've got to minimize the chance that that happens. So we're not going to ship any new features. We're just going to rewrite it, make it faster. But while we're doing this, basically mobile is growing. So the percent of our traffic that is monetizable
is shrinking, because web is basically shrinking and mobile's growing.
is shrinking, because web is basically shrinking and mobile's growing.
Yeah, and I was like, all right.
Yeah, and I was like, all right.
The thing is, it was actually pretty clear what we needed to do. I think strategically, a lot of the time, it's somewhat harder to know what to do when you're winning. When stuff is going well, it's like, what is the next move to go from winning to winning more? But when you're losing, it's usually pretty clear what you have to do.
The thing is, it was actually pretty clear what we needed to do. I think strategically, a lot of the time, it's somewhat harder to know what to do when you're winning. When stuff is going well, it's like, what is the next move to go from winning to winning more? But when you're losing, it's usually pretty clear what you have to do.
And I think a lot of it is just, do you have the pain tolerance to go do it? So a lot of this was like, all right, the team was like, OK. well, we're going public and investors really aren't going to like this if we are not making money for a year and a half. And it's like, well, a year and a half is short in the grand scheme of things. Let's do this. And we did it.
And I think a lot of it is just, do you have the pain tolerance to go do it? So a lot of this was like, all right, the team was like, OK. well, we're going public and investors really aren't going to like this if we are not making money for a year and a half. And it's like, well, a year and a half is short in the grand scheme of things. Let's do this. And we did it.
And it was a painful year and a half. And then we came out of that and we were in great shape. So I think people inside the company had felt a lot better sooner because it was pretty clear to people that we were doing the right thing. And they knew that we were executing in a responsible way and basically focused and we're doing the right thing.
And it was a painful year and a half. And then we came out of that and we were in great shape. So I think people inside the company had felt a lot better sooner because it was pretty clear to people that we were doing the right thing. And they knew that we were executing in a responsible way and basically focused and we're doing the right thing.
But I think it's actually when you have something that's working well and you're on one local hill and you need to jump to another hill, that's the stuff that's really culturally hard. But this one I think was, it was not fun. There have been a period, a series of periods throughout the company that were not, I don't know, not the most fun periods.
But I think it's actually when you have something that's working well and you're on one local hill and you need to jump to another hill, that's the stuff that's really culturally hard. But this one I think was, it was not fun. There have been a period, a series of periods throughout the company that were not, I don't know, not the most fun periods.
Although that one, in retrospect, looks pretty good in retrospect. It's like, not that bad. It's like your market cap only got cut in half for a year and a half. Great. Great. Yeah, I'll take that. Anyway, where were we?
Although that one, in retrospect, looks pretty good in retrospect. It's like, not that bad. It's like your market cap only got cut in half for a year and a half. Great. Great. Yeah, I'll take that. Anyway, where were we?
I mean, there's so many things that we've messed up that there are many criticisms that are legitimate. But if that was a year and a half mistake, I think one of the things I reflect on over the last 10 years or so was the political environment just changed dramatically.
I mean, there's so many things that we've messed up that there are many criticisms that are legitimate. But if that was a year and a half mistake, I think one of the things I reflect on over the last 10 years or so was the political environment just changed dramatically.
Before 2016, there was not a month that went by, except for maybe this IPO period, where the sentiment about the company was anything but positive. And then after 2016, after the election, basically there was not a month for a while where the sentiment about the company was positive. And I think so much of this stuff is... correctly understanding your place in the world and in history.
Before 2016, there was not a month that went by, except for maybe this IPO period, where the sentiment about the company was anything but positive. And then after 2016, after the election, basically there was not a month for a while where the sentiment about the company was positive. And I think so much of this stuff is... correctly understanding your place in the world and in history.
And so I think we talked about before how it's like, I think we understood that we are a technology company and that you have to be a technology company to build this kind of thing. I think we understood that we're not a social network company, we're a human connection company, and that will take different forms over time. The political environment, I think I didn't have much
And so I think we talked about before how it's like, I think we understood that we are a technology company and that you have to be a technology company to build this kind of thing. I think we understood that we're not a social network company, we're a human connection company, and that will take different forms over time. The political environment, I think I didn't have much
sophistication around. And I think I just fundamentally misdiagnosed the problem. So I think that there was this basic challenge. And there were a lot of things. I don't want to simplify this too much. There were a lot of things that we did wrong. There were some things that we did right. But I think one of the things that I look back on regret is I think we accepted
sophistication around. And I think I just fundamentally misdiagnosed the problem. So I think that there was this basic challenge. And there were a lot of things. I don't want to simplify this too much. There were a lot of things that we did wrong. There were some things that we did right. But I think one of the things that I look back on regret is I think we accepted
other people's view of some of the things that, you know, they were asserting that we were doing wrong or were responsible for that I don't actually think we were. And, you know, that's, it's... There were a lot of things we did mess up and we needed to fix.
other people's view of some of the things that, you know, they were asserting that we were doing wrong or were responsible for that I don't actually think we were. And, you know, that's, it's... There were a lot of things we did mess up and we needed to fix.
But I think that there's this view where when you're a company and someone says that there's an issue, I think the right instinct is to take ownership for it. Say like, okay, maybe it's not all our thing, but we're gonna fully own this problem, we're gonna take responsibility for it, we're gonna fix it. But when it's a political problem, I actually think a lot of the time,
But I think that there's this view where when you're a company and someone says that there's an issue, I think the right instinct is to take ownership for it. Say like, okay, maybe it's not all our thing, but we're gonna fully own this problem, we're gonna take responsibility for it, we're gonna fix it. But when it's a political problem, I actually think a lot of the time,
Sometimes there are people who are operating in good faith who are identifying a problem that wants something to be fixed, and there are people who are just looking for someone to blame. And I think to some degree, if you
Sometimes there are people who are operating in good faith who are identifying a problem that wants something to be fixed, and there are people who are just looking for someone to blame. And I think to some degree, if you
if you take responsibility for things because you think it's a corporate crisis, not a political crisis, and your view is like, okay, I'm going to take responsibility for all this stuff. People are basically blaming social media and the tech industry for all these different things in society. And if we're saying, okay, we're going to really do our part to go fix this stuff.
if you take responsibility for things because you think it's a corporate crisis, not a political crisis, and your view is like, okay, I'm going to take responsibility for all this stuff. People are basically blaming social media and the tech industry for all these different things in society. And if we're saying, okay, we're going to really do our part to go fix this stuff.
I know there were a bunch of people who just took that and were like, oh, you're taking responsibility for that? Let me kick you for more stuff. And honestly, I think we should have been firmer and clearer about which of the things we actually felt like we had a part in and which ones we didn't. And my guess is if the IPO was a year and a half mistake.
I know there were a bunch of people who just took that and were like, oh, you're taking responsibility for that? Let me kick you for more stuff. And honestly, I think we should have been firmer and clearer about which of the things we actually felt like we had a part in and which ones we didn't. And my guess is if the IPO was a year and a half mistake.
I think that the political miscalculation was a 20 year mistake. And so it started in 2016. And I think that we have been working super hard to fix a lot of issues and to figure out kind of what the right tone is for navigating what is a very kind of fraught political dynamic across both the country and multiplied across all these places around the world. And I think we've
I think that the political miscalculation was a 20 year mistake. And so it started in 2016. And I think that we have been working super hard to fix a lot of issues and to figure out kind of what the right tone is for navigating what is a very kind of fraught political dynamic across both the country and multiplied across all these places around the world. And I think we've
sort of found our footing on what the principles are, where we think we need to improve stuff, but where people make allegations about the impact of the tech industry or our company, which are just not founded in any fact, that I think we should push back on harder.
sort of found our footing on what the principles are, where we think we need to improve stuff, but where people make allegations about the impact of the tech industry or our company, which are just not founded in any fact, that I think we should push back on harder.
And I think it's going to take another 10 years or so for us to kind of fully work through that cycle before our brand and all of that is back to kind of the place that it maybe could have been if I hadn't messed that up in the first place. But look, in the grand scheme of things, 20 years isn't that bad either. And we'll get through it. And I think we'll come out stronger.
And I think it's going to take another 10 years or so for us to kind of fully work through that cycle before our brand and all of that is back to kind of the place that it maybe could have been if I hadn't messed that up in the first place. But look, in the grand scheme of things, 20 years isn't that bad either. And we'll get through it. And I think we'll come out stronger.
But I do think that is one of the kind of more interesting critiques that I think people get. And we get critiques on both sides on that. There are people who don't think we've taken enough responsibility. But I think certainly there's one line of critique, which is you kind of bought into too much of the stuff that you shouldn't have.
But I do think that is one of the kind of more interesting critiques that I think people get. And we get critiques on both sides on that. There are people who don't think we've taken enough responsibility. But I think certainly there's one line of critique, which is you kind of bought into too much of the stuff that you shouldn't have.
And yeah, I think it's going to take us a long time to dig out of that.
And yeah, I think it's going to take us a long time to dig out of that.
Yeah. I mean, at this point, I think a lot of this stuff has been studied. So I don't want to go rehash all the different things. But I think at this point, there's been years of academic research on a lot of these things.
Yeah. I mean, at this point, I think a lot of this stuff has been studied. So I don't want to go rehash all the different things. But I think at this point, there's been years of academic research on a lot of these things.
And part of the thing that's challenging is, and one of the things that we've learned, is we actually should be trying to support more academics and doing more of this research ahead of time. Because when you get to a point where you're being accused of something, you're not super credible. Just standing up yourself and being like, I don't think we did this one.
And part of the thing that's challenging is, and one of the things that we've learned, is we actually should be trying to support more academics and doing more of this research ahead of time. Because when you get to a point where you're being accused of something, you're not super credible. Just standing up yourself and being like, I don't think we did this one.
But what has worked over time is like, you do the research in advance and you get kind of third party academics, respected folks who get to debate all these different issues. And then it's like, oh, no, actually, like the evidence just does not show that social media is correlated with this kind of harm at all. So I think that like, or it's, you know, so I think that it kind of cuts both ways.
But what has worked over time is like, you do the research in advance and you get kind of third party academics, respected folks who get to debate all these different issues. And then it's like, oh, no, actually, like the evidence just does not show that social media is correlated with this kind of harm at all. So I think that like, or it's, you know, so I think that it kind of cuts both ways.
When you start when you're 19, it's like, hopefully we have more than 20 years left. And hopefully you have Buffett duration.
When you start when you're 19, it's like, hopefully we have more than 20 years left. And hopefully you have Buffett duration.
Well. In 2006, Yahoo wanted to buy the company for a billion dollars, and everyone on our management team wanted to sell it, and the board tried to fire me, and everyone, and basically in the next year, everyone else on the management team left because they, I hadn't done a good job communicating, I mean, I don't want to blame them.
Well. In 2006, Yahoo wanted to buy the company for a billion dollars, and everyone on our management team wanted to sell it, and the board tried to fire me, and everyone, and basically in the next year, everyone else on the management team left because they, I hadn't done a good job communicating, I mean, I don't want to blame them.
I hadn't done a good job communicating the long-term vision because I wasn't thinking about that at the time. I wasn't thinking in terms of this as a company. I was like, this is a great project. It's awesome. A lot of people like what we're doing. I think this will probably continue for a while. I think it's going to be pretty important in the world.
I hadn't done a good job communicating the long-term vision because I wasn't thinking about that at the time. I wasn't thinking in terms of this as a company. I was like, this is a great project. It's awesome. A lot of people like what we're doing. I think this will probably continue for a while. I think it's going to be pretty important in the world.
But I didn't know how to think in terms of long-term financial plans or... Like, make the case to them why it would be worth more than a billion. Yeah, yeah. Or just like, look, we're doing this for the long term. We're not planning on selling the company. So it's like, without having made that case, it was understandable that basically Yahoo comes around.
But I didn't know how to think in terms of long-term financial plans or... Like, make the case to them why it would be worth more than a billion. Yeah, yeah. Or just like, look, we're doing this for the long term. We're not planning on selling the company. So it's like, without having made that case, it was understandable that basically Yahoo comes around.
A lot of people, it's like, this is like all their startup dreams come true. You've got to take this offer. Because I just wasn't in a place where I had the sophistication to basically...
A lot of people, it's like, this is like all their startup dreams come true. You've got to take this offer. Because I just wasn't in a place where I had the sophistication to basically...
articulate a lot of the stuff around where we were going longer term it probably wasn't super confidence inspiring to them when i was like hey i think we should turn this down because we're gonna do this so um so after that i was like all right well i don't want to get fired from my own company for wanting to build it so let's uh try to set up a governance structure that makes it somewhat harder to do that um so
articulate a lot of the stuff around where we were going longer term it probably wasn't super confidence inspiring to them when i was like hey i think we should turn this down because we're gonna do this so um so after that i was like all right well i don't want to get fired from my own company for wanting to build it so let's uh try to set up a governance structure that makes it somewhat harder to do that um so
Learning through suffering.
Learning through suffering.
Yeah, I mean, I think we're having a lot more fun now. We get to work on all the stuff. It's awesome.
Yeah, I mean, I think we're having a lot more fun now. We get to work on all the stuff. It's awesome.
Obviously, starting a company is not bad. I think that there's different schools of thought on how to do it. I think some people think, OK, I want to go start a company, so I'm going to go dive into this idea. And I just think that that's a little bit dangerous because there's this issue, which is you have to be able to be nimble and pivot around until you can figure out what works.
Obviously, starting a company is not bad. I think that there's different schools of thought on how to do it. I think some people think, OK, I want to go start a company, so I'm going to go dive into this idea. And I just think that that's a little bit dangerous because there's this issue, which is you have to be able to be nimble and pivot around until you can figure out what works.
Part of the reason why I didn't think Facebook was going to be the company early on was because when I was in school, I built 12 different things. that were just things that I wanted to exist. And I was like, all right, this is fun. OK, let's build another thing. It's like, OK, this one's fun. People are still using that. I'll help up keep this one.
Part of the reason why I didn't think Facebook was going to be the company early on was because when I was in school, I built 12 different things. that were just things that I wanted to exist. And I was like, all right, this is fun. OK, let's build another thing. It's like, OK, this one's fun. People are still using that. I'll help up keep this one.
But I had a bunch of other ideas for stuff I was going to build too. So I didn't know how to think about what a company was going to be. And so I think there's something about maintaining flexibility that's helpful. Once you hire a bunch of people, It's a lot easier when you can just have meetings in your own head about what direction you want to go in.
But I had a bunch of other ideas for stuff I was going to build too. So I didn't know how to think about what a company was going to be. And so I think there's something about maintaining flexibility that's helpful. Once you hire a bunch of people, It's a lot easier when you can just have meetings in your own head about what direction you want to go in.
And there's a lot less pride and people dug in when you're just like, OK, I'm going to change direction. People haven't invested their ego in like, no, we were going in this direction. And now I must be convinced. It's like, nah. So I do think that that's a thing where you want to keep things lean and be able to do that. And that's one of the reasons why we tried to get the company back to it.
And there's a lot less pride and people dug in when you're just like, OK, I'm going to change direction. People haven't invested their ego in like, no, we were going in this direction. And now I must be convinced. It's like, nah. So I do think that that's a thing where you want to keep things lean and be able to do that. And that's one of the reasons why we tried to get the company back to it.
being whatever the leanest version of a large company is that we can be. But I do think that there's something to that, where it's like, obviously it's not super fun not having the resources to do what you wanna do, but I think it also is problematic. to have more people working on something than you should have for the stage that it's at.
being whatever the leanest version of a large company is that we can be. But I do think that there's something to that, where it's like, obviously it's not super fun not having the resources to do what you wanna do, but I think it also is problematic. to have more people working on something than you should have for the stage that it's at.
Because then the people who are working on it don't have the agency to actually make the changes and do the things that they need to, which is less fun. And then you can't attract the best people to go work on those things because it's less fun. And so I do think you just have to dial it right.
Because then the people who are working on it don't have the agency to actually make the changes and do the things that they need to, which is less fun. And then you can't attract the best people to go work on those things because it's less fun. And so I do think you just have to dial it right.
I mean, well, I think some of the stuff, by the time you're at the scale that we're at, is also just about, like, what do you want to do over the next 10 to 20 years? And what do you think are going to be important?
I mean, well, I think some of the stuff, by the time you're at the scale that we're at, is also just about, like, what do you want to do over the next 10 to 20 years? And what do you think are going to be important?
And, you know, we were talking about, like, making your own luck and all that and how, you know, it's like, I think there are some broad strokes that we can have a sense of where things are going. I'm pretty sure glasses and kind of, like, holographic presence and AR is going to be a completely ubiquitous... product, right?
And, you know, we were talking about, like, making your own luck and all that and how, you know, it's like, I think there are some broad strokes that we can have a sense of where things are going. I'm pretty sure glasses and kind of, like, holographic presence and AR is going to be a completely ubiquitous... product, right?
It's just like everyone who had a phone before replaced it with a smartphone, and then a lot of more people got smartphones. If all we get is all the people in the world who already have glasses upgrading to glasses that have AI in them, then this is already going to be one of the most successful products in the history of the world. And I think it's going to go a lot further than that.
It's just like everyone who had a phone before replaced it with a smartphone, and then a lot of more people got smartphones. If all we get is all the people in the world who already have glasses upgrading to glasses that have AI in them, then this is already going to be one of the most successful products in the history of the world. And I think it's going to go a lot further than that.
So I know there's that. There is the thing about controlling our own destiny. It's strategically valuable.
So I know there's that. There is the thing about controlling our own destiny. It's strategically valuable.
We did this calculation or estimate at some point where it's like, how much money do we lose from our core family of apps to the various taxes that the platforms have to when they tell us we can't run the ad business the way that we think we should be able to, when they tell us we can't ship certain products so that way people use the things less or like them less.
We did this calculation or estimate at some point where it's like, how much money do we lose from our core family of apps to the various taxes that the platforms have to when they tell us we can't run the ad business the way that we think we should be able to, when they tell us we can't ship certain products so that way people use the things less or like them less.
It's hard to exactly estimate it, but I think we might be twice as profitable if we own the platform or something. So I think from that perspective, that's worth a lot. Just from a pure dollars perspective, which is not primarily how I come at this stuff. But even now, I've learned a thing or two since the Yahoo days.
It's hard to exactly estimate it, but I think we might be twice as profitable if we own the platform or something. So I think from that perspective, that's worth a lot. Just from a pure dollars perspective, which is not primarily how I come at this stuff. But even now, I've learned a thing or two since the Yahoo days.
So now I at least am able to like, I might not be able to convince all the investors that we should be investing to the extent that we are in Reality Labs if I didn't control the company. But at least I can sort of articulate a case for why I am confident that it's going to be good over time. But for me, it's always been way more about the product experience and what you can enable and build.
So now I at least am able to like, I might not be able to convince all the investors that we should be investing to the extent that we are in Reality Labs if I didn't control the company. But at least I can sort of articulate a case for why I am confident that it's going to be good over time. But for me, it's always been way more about the product experience and what you can enable and build.
And one of the shifts, and this is sort of like a values shift over time, is one of the things that Some of the early Oculus guys used to say to me that there's a difference between building good things and awesome things. And good is good. It's helpful. It's useful. It's things that people use on a day-to-day basis because it adds something to their lives. But awesome is different.
And one of the shifts, and this is sort of like a values shift over time, is one of the things that Some of the early Oculus guys used to say to me that there's a difference between building good things and awesome things. And good is good. It's helpful. It's useful. It's things that people use on a day-to-day basis because it adds something to their lives. But awesome is different.
Awesome is uplifting and inspiring and just like leads you to just be way more optimistic about the future. And it's just like this uplifting thing about humanity. And so I think a lot of what we've done with social media so far is very good. We've built these products. More than three billion people use them. on a near daily basis.
Awesome is uplifting and inspiring and just like leads you to just be way more optimistic about the future. And it's just like this uplifting thing about humanity. And so I think a lot of what we've done with social media so far is very good. We've built these products. More than three billion people use them. on a near daily basis.
Yeah. And they use it because it is useful in their life. And in all these different ways. I mean, obviously, people vary. People use it for different things. But it's useful. And it helps people stay connected. It helps people build businesses. It helps people form communities. It's good. There aren't that many people on a day-to-day basis who get out of bed and are like, fuck yeah, social media.
Yeah. And they use it because it is useful in their life. And in all these different ways. I mean, obviously, people vary. People use it for different things. But it's useful. And it helps people stay connected. It helps people build businesses. It helps people form communities. It's good. There aren't that many people on a day-to-day basis who get out of bed and are like, fuck yeah, social media.
So I kind of think for my next stage, for the next stage of the company, the next 15 years, I want us to build more things that are awesome in addition to things that are good. And I think that they both matter. To me, this is a little bit of the next stage of what I want our company to stand for and be. And so I think a lot of the Reality Lab stuff that we're doing is going to be in that bucket.
So I kind of think for my next stage, for the next stage of the company, the next 15 years, I want us to build more things that are awesome in addition to things that are good. And I think that they both matter. To me, this is a little bit of the next stage of what I want our company to stand for and be. And so I think a lot of the Reality Lab stuff that we're doing is going to be in that bucket.
A lot of the AI stuff that we're doing, I think, is going to be in that bucket. There are a bunch of things in the apps that are going to be in that bucket, too. New apps, too. But I don't know, I think that there's just something that's fundamentally pretty good about that. Maybe it's also just where I am in my life. I like to think I'm young, I'm a little older.
A lot of the AI stuff that we're doing, I think, is going to be in that bucket. There are a bunch of things in the apps that are going to be in that bucket, too. New apps, too. But I don't know, I think that there's just something that's fundamentally pretty good about that. Maybe it's also just where I am in my life. I like to think I'm young, I'm a little older.
I do think that at this point, it's not just a meta thing. Also, in my personal life, a lot of what I personally value is doing things that are inspiring with people who I find inspiring. And so there's the personal version of this. It's like I get to work on interesting science problems with Priscilla and my wife and a bunch of awesome people.
I do think that at this point, it's not just a meta thing. Also, in my personal life, a lot of what I personally value is doing things that are inspiring with people who I find inspiring. And so there's the personal version of this. It's like I get to work on interesting science problems with Priscilla and my wife and a bunch of awesome people.
I get to design shirts with some of the best fashion designers in the world. Statues. A sculpture of my wife. Bring back the Roman tradition of designing sculptures of people you love. I'm not at all being facetious. It's really cool. I think Daniel Arsham is a really talented guy. And I was like, that's a person who I'd love to work with on something. Let's go find a project.
I get to design shirts with some of the best fashion designers in the world. Statues. A sculpture of my wife. Bring back the Roman tradition of designing sculptures of people you love. I'm not at all being facetious. It's really cool. I think Daniel Arsham is a really talented guy. And I was like, that's a person who I'd love to work with on something. Let's go find a project.
One of my side projects is we have this cattle ranch in Kauai. And I'm trying to see if we can raise the highest quality beef in the world. And there's all this stuff. It starts with like, it's awesome. We got this steer. Chonk? He's just the man. He's the man.
One of my side projects is we have this cattle ranch in Kauai. And I'm trying to see if we can raise the highest quality beef in the world. And there's all this stuff. It starts with like, it's awesome. We got this steer. Chonk? He's just the man. He's the man.
We're having a hard time keeping him on the ranch because every time we put him in a steel enclosure and he sees a female cow, he busts through the steel enclosure. But I feel like that's the kind of bull that you want to make the highest quality beef in the world. And we're just working with, you know, trying to do really high quality, awesome things with awesome people.
We're having a hard time keeping him on the ranch because every time we put him in a steel enclosure and he sees a female cow, he busts through the steel enclosure. But I feel like that's the kind of bull that you want to make the highest quality beef in the world. And we're just working with, you know, trying to do really high quality, awesome things with awesome people.
If that's what I get to do for the next 15 or 20 years, then like, it's gonna be a good 15 or 20 years.
If that's what I get to do for the next 15 or 20 years, then like, it's gonna be a good 15 or 20 years.
No, I think that there might have been something around the way the company shifted in operations around COVID. I mean, it's like the COVID, like all these tech companies went remote temporarily and it was an interesting period to just like get some more time, like a step back.
No, I think that there might have been something around the way the company shifted in operations around COVID. I mean, it's like the COVID, like all these tech companies went remote temporarily and it was an interesting period to just like get some more time, like a step back.
I'm a pretty introverted person and I do think it's, I need to be careful where like I get a lot of value and energy and ideas from being around other people, but I also need time with myself. And with COVID, I kind of got that. And it was a time of reflection where I was able to think about this stuff. And we were also going through this very difficult political time in the country.
I'm a pretty introverted person and I do think it's, I need to be careful where like I get a lot of value and energy and ideas from being around other people, but I also need time with myself. And with COVID, I kind of got that. And it was a time of reflection where I was able to think about this stuff. And we were also going through this very difficult political time in the country.
2012, 2013, sometime around then. These things, they kind of got started, and they were growing, and it kind of reached this moment which is like, are we gonna double down on this and do this, or are we gonna kind of do this as a hobby? And I was like, no, I think we should do this. I mean, this is going to be a really important part of what we do.
2012, 2013, sometime around then. These things, they kind of got started, and they were growing, and it kind of reached this moment which is like, are we gonna double down on this and do this, or are we gonna kind of do this as a hobby? And I was like, no, I think we should do this. I mean, this is going to be a really important part of what we do.
And we had to make a really important set of decisions. What we knew was going to be really painful to go double down on those things and build out the AI infrastructure that we needed to and scale up some of the Reality Lab stuff. And I knew that a lot of the investors would hate it, at least in the short term before it's clearly the right thing to do.
And we had to make a really important set of decisions. What we knew was going to be really painful to go double down on those things and build out the AI infrastructure that we needed to and scale up some of the Reality Lab stuff. And I knew that a lot of the investors would hate it, at least in the short term before it's clearly the right thing to do.
The, what I didn't know was that at the time, I thought they were gonna not like it, but I thought it was gonna be okay because I didn't think there was also gonna be a recession at the same time. So that, like really, it's like, I mean, look, like you learn who you are through challenges, right?
The, what I didn't know was that at the time, I thought they were gonna not like it, but I thought it was gonna be okay because I didn't think there was also gonna be a recession at the same time. So that, like really, it's like, I mean, look, like you learn who you are through challenges, right?
It's like we had like a really, you know, it's like, okay, like losing half of your market cap is quaint compared to losing 80% of your market cap or whatever it was, right? But so, I mean, these are all intentional decisions, right? It's like, I mean, there are a lot of conversations that we had, which are like, should we go forward with this? And the answer that I came out with is yes.
It's like we had like a really, you know, it's like, okay, like losing half of your market cap is quaint compared to losing 80% of your market cap or whatever it was, right? But so, I mean, these are all intentional decisions, right? It's like, I mean, there are a lot of conversations that we had, which are like, should we go forward with this? And the answer that I came out with is yes.
This is what I believe in. I think this is going to be important for the world. I think it's going to work over time. We're no stranger to going through painful periods. In some ways, it makes the company better. Let's do it. Thank you.
This is what I believe in. I think this is going to be important for the world. I think it's going to work over time. We're no stranger to going through painful periods. In some ways, it makes the company better. Let's do it. Thank you.
I like Meta. It's a good name. Finding good short names, this actually was a thing that we talked about for a while, because it was pretty clear that Facebook is continuing to grow in importance in the world, which I think a lot of people don't appreciate and is kind of mind-boggling at the scale that it's at.
I like Meta. It's a good name. Finding good short names, this actually was a thing that we talked about for a while, because it was pretty clear that Facebook is continuing to grow in importance in the world, which I think a lot of people don't appreciate and is kind of mind-boggling at the scale that it's at.
But the others, I mean, we went through a period where it's like we had Facebook and a handful of small apps. And now we have four apps that have a billion people or more using them, hopefully in the next few years, five, with threads, if that continues scaling.
But the others, I mean, we went through a period where it's like we had Facebook and a handful of small apps. And now we have four apps that have a billion people or more using them, hopefully in the next few years, five, with threads, if that continues scaling.
This was a conversation that we had a bunch, where it's like, does it make sense for the name of the company to be one of the apps as the other apps, as it's really becoming a family of apps? And it was important to me, this was also coinciding with a lot of a lot of the challenges that we were having, the political brand challenges, different things.
This was a conversation that we had a bunch, where it's like, does it make sense for the name of the company to be one of the apps as the other apps, as it's really becoming a family of apps? And it was important to me, this was also coinciding with a lot of a lot of the challenges that we were having, the political brand challenges, different things.
And a lot of people were proposing that from the perspective of running away from the Facebook brand. They were like, oh, well, does the Facebook brand have issues? Do we need a new brand? And I was like, we don't run away from that.
And a lot of people were proposing that from the perspective of running away from the Facebook brand. They were like, oh, well, does the Facebook brand have issues? Do we need a new brand? And I was like, we don't run away from that.
It might make sense one day to not have Facebook be the lead brand for the company because we do so many different things, but I'm only going to do this when we come up with a brand that is going to be evocative of the future that we're trying to build because we run towards something. We don't run away from things. And when we got to Meta, then I was like, all right, we're here.
It might make sense one day to not have Facebook be the lead brand for the company because we do so many different things, but I'm only going to do this when we come up with a brand that is going to be evocative of the future that we're trying to build because we run towards something. We don't run away from things. And when we got to Meta, then I was like, all right, we're here.
And it was around the time when we were doubling down on the investment and where there was all the controversy. And it's like, look, if we're doing this, we're going to lean into this and we're going to do it. So let's do it.
And it was around the time when we were doubling down on the investment and where there was all the controversy. And it's like, look, if we're doing this, we're going to lean into this and we're going to do it. So let's do it.
Yeah. I get it. But I don't know. we align around a vision and a mission of what we're trying to do and we run towards it. That's always been how we've operated. Yeah.
Yeah. I get it. But I don't know. we align around a vision and a mission of what we're trying to do and we run towards it. That's always been how we've operated. Yeah.
Yeah, no, I mean, we're a company that puts a flag down around what we're doing and we're going to go do it. It's like, put a wall in front of us, there's going to be a mark-shaped hole in the wall.
Yeah, no, I mean, we're a company that puts a flag down around what we're doing and we're going to go do it. It's like, put a wall in front of us, there's going to be a mark-shaped hole in the wall.
What do you mean?
What do you mean?
I just like, I'm trying to do inspiring things. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I'm also really competitive.
I just like, I'm trying to do inspiring things. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I'm also really competitive.
What do you mean? I was just thinking about other things that I'm doing. I'm like, what have I started doing? I got into all these more extreme sports and fighting and stuff. I don't know. We face a lot of competition and a lot of different aspects of what we do. There's the social media competitors. There's the platform competitors. I think Apple is a bigger competitor than people realize.
What do you mean? I was just thinking about other things that I'm doing. I'm like, what have I started doing? I got into all these more extreme sports and fighting and stuff. I don't know. We face a lot of competition and a lot of different aspects of what we do. There's the social media competitors. There's the platform competitors. I think Apple is a bigger competitor than people realize.
They kind of think, hey, they're doing a different type of thing, but I don't know. I think over the next 10, 15 years, I think that kind of like battle over, ideological battle over what should the architecture be of the next set of platforms. Are they going to be the closed integrated model that Apple has always done? Which again, I mean, there are multiple good ways to build things.
They kind of think, hey, they're doing a different type of thing, but I don't know. I think over the next 10, 15 years, I think that kind of like battle over, ideological battle over what should the architecture be of the next set of platforms. Are they going to be the closed integrated model that Apple has always done? Which again, I mean, there are multiple good ways to build things.
So I think if you look at the different generations of computing, PCs, mobile, they've all had sort of a closed, integrated version and an open version. And the thing that I think there's just a ton of recency bias around is because iPhone basically won.
So I think if you look at the different generations of computing, PCs, mobile, they've all had sort of a closed, integrated version and an open version. And the thing that I think there's just a ton of recency bias around is because iPhone basically won.
I know that there are more Android phones out there, but iPhone is sort of like the intellectual leader and by far has all the rounds in the industry.
I know that there are more Android phones out there, but iPhone is sort of like the intellectual leader and by far has all the rounds in the industry.
CHRIS BROADFOOTIS- And then there's the recency bias. And probably almost everyone here has an iPhone. And I think that because of the recency bias, there's sort of this view that's like, oh no, this is just the superior way to do things. But I don't actually think that's a given. In the PC era, Windows with the open ecosystem was the leader.
CHRIS BROADFOOTIS- And then there's the recency bias. And probably almost everyone here has an iPhone. And I think that because of the recency bias, there's sort of this view that's like, oh no, this is just the superior way to do things. But I don't actually think that's a given. In the PC era, Windows with the open ecosystem was the leader.
And part of my goal for the next 10, 15 years, the next generation of platforms, is to build the next generation of open platforms and have the open platforms win. And I think that that's going to lead to a much more vibrant tech industry. Now, there are advantages of doing a closed and integrated model. I think Apple will have a place for sure. I expect them to be our primary competitor.
And part of my goal for the next 10, 15 years, the next generation of platforms, is to build the next generation of open platforms and have the open platforms win. And I think that that's going to lead to a much more vibrant tech industry. Now, there are advantages of doing a closed and integrated model. I think Apple will have a place for sure. I expect them to be our primary competitor.
And I think it will not be... just a product competition.
And I think it will not be... just a product competition.
I think it's in some ways very deeply values-driven and ideological competition around what the future of the tech industry should be and how open these platforms, whether it's things like Llama and AI or the Glasses or different things, should be for developers, like an individual, someone getting started in their dorm room like me, to not have to ask for permission to go build the next set of awesome things.
I think it's in some ways very deeply values-driven and ideological competition around what the future of the tech industry should be and how open these platforms, whether it's things like Llama and AI or the Glasses or different things, should be for developers, like an individual, someone getting started in their dorm room like me, to not have to ask for permission to go build the next set of awesome things.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, just do something that you care about. And I mean, if you're trying to run our strategy, try to learn as quickly as you can. But I mean, I think part of what I'm trying to say is, I think there are different ways to build stuff, right? It's like our way worked for me and our team. Different things have clearly worked for other companies. I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, just do something that you care about. And I mean, if you're trying to run our strategy, try to learn as quickly as you can. But I mean, I think part of what I'm trying to say is, I think there are different ways to build stuff, right? It's like our way worked for me and our team. Different things have clearly worked for other companies. I don't know.
One day my daughter, we took her to a Taylor Swift concert and she was like, you know, dad, I kind of want to be like Taylor Swift when I grow up. Hell yeah. I was like, but you can't. That's not available to you. I was like, but, and she thought about it, and she's like, all right, when I grow up, I want people to want to be like August Chan Zuckerberg. And I was like, hell yeah. Hell yeah.
One day my daughter, we took her to a Taylor Swift concert and she was like, you know, dad, I kind of want to be like Taylor Swift when I grow up. Hell yeah. I was like, but you can't. That's not available to you. I was like, but, and she thought about it, and she's like, all right, when I grow up, I want people to want to be like August Chan Zuckerberg. And I was like, hell yeah. Hell yeah.
So I think that that's, yeah, I don't know. I think it's like, look, learn from other people's successes and failures, but do your own thing. I love that.
So I think that that's, yeah, I don't know. I think it's like, look, learn from other people's successes and failures, but do your own thing. I love that.
I do. I used to only wear one type of shirt. Now I've moved on.
I do. I used to only wear one type of shirt. Now I've moved on.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Hermes. So we look quite presentable.
Thank you, Hermes. So we look quite presentable.
it's probably also pretty bad for one institution to have an AI that is way more powerful than everyone else's AI.
it's probably also pretty bad for one institution to have an AI that is way more powerful than everyone else's AI.
And I kind of think that a world where AI is very widely deployed in a way where it's gotten hardened progressively over time and is one where all the different systems will be in check in a way that seems like it is fundamentally more healthy to me than one where this is more concentrated.
And I kind of think that a world where AI is very widely deployed in a way where it's gotten hardened progressively over time and is one where all the different systems will be in check in a way that seems like it is fundamentally more healthy to me than one where this is more concentrated.
Don't believe your lying eyes.
Don't believe your lying eyes.
Don't believe your lying eyes.
Shame on you! What did you do that for?
Shame on you! What did you do that for?
Shame on you! What did you do that for?
It was a 12-hour flight, and they took a three-hour stop in Abu Dhabi.
It was a 12-hour flight, and they took a three-hour stop in Abu Dhabi.
It was a 12-hour flight, and they took a three-hour stop in Abu Dhabi.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today, because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram. I started building social media to give people a voice. I gave a speech at Georgetown five years ago about the importance of protecting free expression, and I still believe this today. But a lot has happened over the last several years.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today, because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram. I started building social media to give people a voice. I gave a speech at Georgetown five years ago about the importance of protecting free expression, and I still believe this today. But a lot has happened over the last several years.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today, because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram. I started building social media to give people a voice. I gave a speech at Georgetown five years ago about the importance of protecting free expression, and I still believe this today. But a lot has happened over the last several years.
There's been widespread debate about potential harms from online content. Governments and legacy media have pushed to censor more and more. A lot of this is clearly political, but there's also a lot of legitimately bad stuff out there. Drugs, terrorism, child exploitation. These are things that we take very seriously, and I want to make sure that we handle responsibly.
There's been widespread debate about potential harms from online content. Governments and legacy media have pushed to censor more and more. A lot of this is clearly political, but there's also a lot of legitimately bad stuff out there. Drugs, terrorism, child exploitation. These are things that we take very seriously, and I want to make sure that we handle responsibly.
There's been widespread debate about potential harms from online content. Governments and legacy media have pushed to censor more and more. A lot of this is clearly political, but there's also a lot of legitimately bad stuff out there. Drugs, terrorism, child exploitation. These are things that we take very seriously, and I want to make sure that we handle responsibly.
So we built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
So we built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
So we built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
So we're gonna get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
So we're gonna get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
So we're gonna get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
Did you feel protective?
Did you feel protective?
Did you feel protective?
These people from the Biden administration would call up our team and like scream at them and curse. And it's like these documents are it's all kind of out there. Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't know. I don't think I don't think we were. But but I think I want to listen. I mean, there are emails. The emails are published. It's all it's all kind of out there. And and they're like.
These people from the Biden administration would call up our team and like scream at them and curse. And it's like these documents are it's all kind of out there. Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't know. I don't think I don't think we were. But but I think I want to listen. I mean, there are emails. The emails are published. It's all it's all kind of out there. And and they're like.
These people from the Biden administration would call up our team and like scream at them and curse. And it's like these documents are it's all kind of out there. Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't know. I don't think I don't think we were. But but I think I want to listen. I mean, there are emails. The emails are published. It's all it's all kind of out there. And and they're like.
Basically, it just got to this point where we were like, no, we're not going to take down things that are true. That's ridiculous. They wanted us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a TV, talking about how 10 years from now or something, you're going to see an ad that says, okay, if you took a COVID vaccine, you're eligible for this kind of payment. It's sort of like...
Basically, it just got to this point where we were like, no, we're not going to take down things that are true. That's ridiculous. They wanted us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a TV, talking about how 10 years from now or something, you're going to see an ad that says, okay, if you took a COVID vaccine, you're eligible for this kind of payment. It's sort of like...
Basically, it just got to this point where we were like, no, we're not going to take down things that are true. That's ridiculous. They wanted us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a TV, talking about how 10 years from now or something, you're going to see an ad that says, okay, if you took a COVID vaccine, you're eligible for this kind of payment. It's sort of like...
class action lawsuit type meme and they're like no you have to take that down we said no we're not gonna we're not gonna take down humor and satire we're not gonna take down things that are that are true and then at some point um i guess uh i don't flipped a bit i mean biden when he was he gave some statement at some point i don't know if it's a press conference or to some journalists where he basically was like these guys are killing people and and um and
class action lawsuit type meme and they're like no you have to take that down we said no we're not gonna we're not gonna take down humor and satire we're not gonna take down things that are that are true and then at some point um i guess uh i don't flipped a bit i mean biden when he was he gave some statement at some point i don't know if it's a press conference or to some journalists where he basically was like these guys are killing people and and um and
class action lawsuit type meme and they're like no you have to take that down we said no we're not gonna we're not gonna take down humor and satire we're not gonna take down things that are that are true and then at some point um i guess uh i don't flipped a bit i mean biden when he was he gave some statement at some point i don't know if it's a press conference or to some journalists where he basically was like these guys are killing people and and um and
Ich weiß nicht. Dann haben sich all diese verschiedenen Organisationen und Bereiche der Regierung einfach angefangen, nach unserer Firma zu recherchieren. Es war brutal. Es war brutal.
Ich weiß nicht. Dann haben sich all diese verschiedenen Organisationen und Bereiche der Regierung einfach angefangen, nach unserer Firma zu recherchieren. Es war brutal. Es war brutal.
Ich weiß nicht. Dann haben sich all diese verschiedenen Organisationen und Bereiche der Regierung einfach angefangen, nach unserer Firma zu recherchieren. Es war brutal. Es war brutal.
Is there a current set of methods that seem to be scaling very well? Right. So. With past AI architectures, you could kind of feed an AI system a certain amount of data and use a certain amount of compute, but eventually it hit a plateau. And one of the interesting things about these new transformer-based architectures over the last five to 10 years is that we haven't found the end yet.
Is there a current set of methods that seem to be scaling very well? Right. So. With past AI architectures, you could kind of feed an AI system a certain amount of data and use a certain amount of compute, but eventually it hit a plateau. And one of the interesting things about these new transformer-based architectures over the last five to 10 years is that we haven't found the end yet.
So that leads to this dynamic where Llama 3, we could train on 10,000 to 20,000 GPUs. Llama 4, we could train on more than 100,000 GPUs. Llama 5, we can plan to scale even further. And there's just an interesting question of how far that goes. It's totally possible.
So that leads to this dynamic where Llama 3, we could train on 10,000 to 20,000 GPUs. Llama 4, we could train on more than 100,000 GPUs. Llama 5, we can plan to scale even further. And there's just an interesting question of how far that goes. It's totally possible.
that at some point we just like hit a limit and just like previous systems, there's an asymptote and it doesn't keep on growing, but it's also possible that that limit is not going to happen anytime soon.
that at some point we just like hit a limit and just like previous systems, there's an asymptote and it doesn't keep on growing, but it's also possible that that limit is not going to happen anytime soon.
And that we're going to be able to keep on just building more clusters and generating more, you know, synthetic data to train the systems and that they're just going to keep on getting more and more useful for people for quite a while to come. And again,
And that we're going to be able to keep on just building more clusters and generating more, you know, synthetic data to train the systems and that they're just going to keep on getting more and more useful for people for quite a while to come. And again,
It's a really big and high stakes question, I think, for the company is because we're basically making these bets on how much infrastructure to build out for the future. And this is like hundreds of billions of dollars of infrastructure. So, like, I'm clearly betting that this is going to. keep scaling for a while.
It's a really big and high stakes question, I think, for the company is because we're basically making these bets on how much infrastructure to build out for the future. And this is like hundreds of billions of dollars of infrastructure. So, like, I'm clearly betting that this is going to. keep scaling for a while.
But it's one of the big questions, I think, in the field, because it is possible that it doesn't. You know, that obviously would lead to a very different world where it's I mean, I'm sure people still figure it out eventually. You just need to make some new fundamental improvements to the architecture in some way.
But it's one of the big questions, I think, in the field, because it is possible that it doesn't. You know, that obviously would lead to a very different world where it's I mean, I'm sure people still figure it out eventually. You just need to make some new fundamental improvements to the architecture in some way.
But that might be a somewhat longer trajectory for, OK, maybe, you know, the kind of fundamental AI advances slow down for a bit. We just take some time to build new products around this.
But that might be a somewhat longer trajectory for, OK, maybe, you know, the kind of fundamental AI advances slow down for a bit. We just take some time to build new products around this.
So that's the kind of full AR, that's the display-less glasses, like all the work we're gonna do on Ray-Ban. And we just announced the expanded partnership with Luxottica. Essilor Luxottica, great company. We've had a great experience working with them. They designed so many great glasses. And I think working with them to do even more is going to be really exciting.
So that's the kind of full AR, that's the display-less glasses, like all the work we're gonna do on Ray-Ban. And we just announced the expanded partnership with Luxottica. Essilor Luxottica, great company. We've had a great experience working with them. They designed so many great glasses. And I think working with them to do even more is going to be really exciting.
So that's the kind of full AR, that's the display-less glasses, like all the work we're gonna do on Ray-Ban. And we just announced the expanded partnership with Luxottica. Essilor Luxottica, great company. We've had a great experience working with them. They designed so many great glasses. And I think working with them to do even more is going to be really exciting.
So there's a lot more to do there on all of these things.
So there's a lot more to do there on all of these things.
So there's a lot more to do there on all of these things.
I think it was more of just a kind of commitment from the companies that...
I think it was more of just a kind of commitment from the companies that...
I think it was more of just a kind of commitment from the companies that...
we're feeling pretty good about how this is going and we're going to build a lot more glasses together part of the way it works is um you know rather than having sort of doing one generation and then designing the next generation i think by having a longer term partnership it allows the teams to not just have to worry about one thing at a time then like okay is this one going to be good and then how do we build on that for the next one now we can start
we're feeling pretty good about how this is going and we're going to build a lot more glasses together part of the way it works is um you know rather than having sort of doing one generation and then designing the next generation i think by having a longer term partnership it allows the teams to not just have to worry about one thing at a time then like okay is this one going to be good and then how do we build on that for the next one now we can start
we're feeling pretty good about how this is going and we're going to build a lot more glasses together part of the way it works is um you know rather than having sort of doing one generation and then designing the next generation i think by having a longer term partnership it allows the teams to not just have to worry about one thing at a time then like okay is this one going to be good and then how do we build on that for the next one now we can start
like a multi-year roadmap of many different devices, knowing that we're going to be working together for a long time. So I'm optimistic about that. That's sort of how we work internally, right? We don't just, I mean, sometimes when you're early on, you definitely want to learn from each device launch.
like a multi-year roadmap of many different devices, knowing that we're going to be working together for a long time. So I'm optimistic about that. That's sort of how we work internally, right? We don't just, I mean, sometimes when you're early on, you definitely want to learn from each device launch.
like a multi-year roadmap of many different devices, knowing that we're going to be working together for a long time. So I'm optimistic about that. That's sort of how we work internally, right? We don't just, I mean, sometimes when you're early on, you definitely want to learn from each device launch.
But when there are things that you're committed to, I don't think you want the team to feel like, okay, if we don't get the short-term milestone, then like we're going to cancel the whole thing, right? So... Are you buying a stake in Illusora Luxottica? Yeah. Yeah, I think we've talked about investing in them. It's not going to be a kind of major thing. I'd say it's more of a symbolic thing.
But when there are things that you're committed to, I don't think you want the team to feel like, okay, if we don't get the short-term milestone, then like we're going to cancel the whole thing, right? So... Are you buying a stake in Illusora Luxottica? Yeah. Yeah, I think we've talked about investing in them. It's not going to be a kind of major thing. I'd say it's more of a symbolic thing.
But when there are things that you're committed to, I don't think you want the team to feel like, okay, if we don't get the short-term milestone, then like we're going to cancel the whole thing, right? So... Are you buying a stake in Illusora Luxottica? Yeah. Yeah, I think we've talked about investing in them. It's not going to be a kind of major thing. I'd say it's more of a symbolic thing.
I mean, we want to have this be a long-term partnership. And as part of that, I thought that this would be kind of a nice gesture. And I fundamentally believe in them a lot. I mean, I think that they're going to go from being the premier glasses company in the world to, I think, one of the major technology companies in the world. I mean, my vision for them and how I think about it
I mean, we want to have this be a long-term partnership. And as part of that, I thought that this would be kind of a nice gesture. And I fundamentally believe in them a lot. I mean, I think that they're going to go from being the premier glasses company in the world to, I think, one of the major technology companies in the world. I mean, my vision for them and how I think about it
I mean, we want to have this be a long-term partnership. And as part of that, I thought that this would be kind of a nice gesture. And I fundamentally believe in them a lot. I mean, I think that they're going to go from being the premier glasses company in the world to, I think, one of the major technology companies in the world. I mean, my vision for them and how I think about it
is that if you think about how Samsung in Korea made it so that Korea became one of the main hubs of building phones in the world, I think that this is probably one of the best shots for Europe, and Italy in particular, to become a major hub for manufacturing and building and designing the next major category of computing platforms overall. And I think that they're kind of all in on that now.
is that if you think about how Samsung in Korea made it so that Korea became one of the main hubs of building phones in the world, I think that this is probably one of the best shots for Europe, and Italy in particular, to become a major hub for manufacturing and building and designing the next major category of computing platforms overall. And I think that they're kind of all in on that now.
is that if you think about how Samsung in Korea made it so that Korea became one of the main hubs of building phones in the world, I think that this is probably one of the best shots for Europe, and Italy in particular, to become a major hub for manufacturing and building and designing the next major category of computing platforms overall. And I think that they're kind of all in on that now.
And it's been this interesting question because they have such a good business and such deep competence in the areas. And I've gotten more of an appreciation of how strong of a technology company they are in their own way, right? Designing lenses, designing the materials that you need to make fashionable glasses that... can be light enough, but also kind of like feel good.
And it's been this interesting question because they have such a good business and such deep competence in the areas. And I've gotten more of an appreciation of how strong of a technology company they are in their own way, right? Designing lenses, designing the materials that you need to make fashionable glasses that... can be light enough, but also kind of like feel good.
And it's been this interesting question because they have such a good business and such deep competence in the areas. And I've gotten more of an appreciation of how strong of a technology company they are in their own way, right? Designing lenses, designing the materials that you need to make fashionable glasses that... can be light enough, but also kind of like feel good.
They bring a huge amount that I think is people in kind of our world, the tech world, probably don't necessarily see, but I think that they're really well set up for the future. So I believe in the partnership. I'm really excited about the work that we're doing together. And fundamentally, I think that that's just going to be a massively successful company in the future.
They bring a huge amount that I think is people in kind of our world, the tech world, probably don't necessarily see, but I think that they're really well set up for the future. So I believe in the partnership. I'm really excited about the work that we're doing together. And fundamentally, I think that that's just going to be a massively successful company in the future.
They bring a huge amount that I think is people in kind of our world, the tech world, probably don't necessarily see, but I think that they're really well set up for the future. So I believe in the partnership. I'm really excited about the work that we're doing together. And fundamentally, I think that that's just going to be a massively successful company in the future.
I think we collaborate on everything. It's actually, I mean, part of working together is... you kind of build a joint culture over time.
I think we collaborate on everything. It's actually, I mean, part of working together is... you kind of build a joint culture over time.
I think we collaborate on everything. It's actually, I mean, part of working together is... you kind of build a joint culture over time.
There were a lot of really sharp people over there who I think it took maybe a couple versions for us really to gain an appreciation for how each of us approach things because, you know, they really think about things from this like fashion, manufacturing, lens, selling optical devices perspective. And we obviously come at it from a kind of consumer electronics, AI, software perspective, but
There were a lot of really sharp people over there who I think it took maybe a couple versions for us really to gain an appreciation for how each of us approach things because, you know, they really think about things from this like fashion, manufacturing, lens, selling optical devices perspective. And we obviously come at it from a kind of consumer electronics, AI, software perspective, but
There were a lot of really sharp people over there who I think it took maybe a couple versions for us really to gain an appreciation for how each of us approach things because, you know, they really think about things from this like fashion, manufacturing, lens, selling optical devices perspective. And we obviously come at it from a kind of consumer electronics, AI, software perspective, but
I think over time, we just kind of appreciate each other's perspectives on things a lot more. And I mean, I'm like constantly talking to them about things to get their ideas on different things. I mean, but you know, when partnerships are working well, when you reach out to them to get their opinion on things that are not actually currently in the scope of what you're working on together.
I think over time, we just kind of appreciate each other's perspectives on things a lot more. And I mean, I'm like constantly talking to them about things to get their ideas on different things. I mean, but you know, when partnerships are working well, when you reach out to them to get their opinion on things that are not actually currently in the scope of what you're working on together.
I think over time, we just kind of appreciate each other's perspectives on things a lot more. And I mean, I'm like constantly talking to them about things to get their ideas on different things. I mean, but you know, when partnerships are working well, when you reach out to them to get their opinion on things that are not actually currently in the scope of what you're working on together.
And because I do that frequently with Rocco, who runs the wearables and Francesco, who's their CEO. And our team does that too with a large part of the working group over there. It's a good crew. They share good values. They're really sharp. And like I said, I believe in them a lot. And I think it's going to be a very successful partnership and company. We need to take a quick break.
And because I do that frequently with Rocco, who runs the wearables and Francesco, who's their CEO. And our team does that too with a large part of the working group over there. It's a good crew. They share good values. They're really sharp. And like I said, I believe in them a lot. And I think it's going to be a very successful partnership and company. We need to take a quick break.
And because I do that frequently with Rocco, who runs the wearables and Francesco, who's their CEO. And our team does that too with a large part of the working group over there. It's a good crew. They share good values. They're really sharp. And like I said, I believe in them a lot. And I think it's going to be a very successful partnership and company. We need to take a quick break.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
We'll be right back.
I don't know if we've given a number on that, but... I know, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, it's going very well. One of the things that I think is interesting is we underestimated demand. One thing that is very different in the world of consumer electronics than software is... there are fewer kind of supply constraints in software.
I don't know if we've given a number on that, but... I know, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, it's going very well. One of the things that I think is interesting is we underestimated demand. One thing that is very different in the world of consumer electronics than software is... there are fewer kind of supply constraints in software.
I don't know if we've given a number on that, but... I know, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, it's going very well. One of the things that I think is interesting is we underestimated demand. One thing that is very different in the world of consumer electronics than software is... there are fewer kind of supply constraints in software.
There are some, I mean, like some of the stuff that we're rolling out, like the voice on Meta AI, we need to meter it as we're rolling it out because we need to make sure we have enough inference capacity to handle it. But fundamentally we'll resolve that in weeks, right?
There are some, I mean, like some of the stuff that we're rolling out, like the voice on Meta AI, we need to meter it as we're rolling it out because we need to make sure we have enough inference capacity to handle it. But fundamentally we'll resolve that in weeks, right?
There are some, I mean, like some of the stuff that we're rolling out, like the voice on Meta AI, we need to meter it as we're rolling it out because we need to make sure we have enough inference capacity to handle it. But fundamentally we'll resolve that in weeks, right?
But for manufacturing, it's like, you make these concrete decisions like, okay, are we setting up four manufacturing lines or six? Each one, it was a big upfront CapEx investment, and you're basically deciding upfront the velocity at which you're going to be able to generate supply before you know what the demand is. So on this one, we thought that Ray-Ban Meta was probably going to sell...
But for manufacturing, it's like, you make these concrete decisions like, okay, are we setting up four manufacturing lines or six? Each one, it was a big upfront CapEx investment, and you're basically deciding upfront the velocity at which you're going to be able to generate supply before you know what the demand is. So on this one, we thought that Ray-Ban Meta was probably going to sell...
But for manufacturing, it's like, you make these concrete decisions like, okay, are we setting up four manufacturing lines or six? Each one, it was a big upfront CapEx investment, and you're basically deciding upfront the velocity at which you're going to be able to generate supply before you know what the demand is. So on this one, we thought that Ray-Ban Meta was probably going to sell...
three or five times more than the first version did. And we just dramatically underestimated. So now we're in this position where it's actually been somewhat hard for us to gauge what the real demand is because they're sold out and you can't get them. So if you can't get them, then how do you know where the actual curve is? But we're basically getting to the point where that's resolved, where...
three or five times more than the first version did. And we just dramatically underestimated. So now we're in this position where it's actually been somewhat hard for us to gauge what the real demand is because they're sold out and you can't get them. So if you can't get them, then how do you know where the actual curve is? But we're basically getting to the point where that's resolved, where...
three or five times more than the first version did. And we just dramatically underestimated. So now we're in this position where it's actually been somewhat hard for us to gauge what the real demand is because they're sold out and you can't get them. So if you can't get them, then how do you know where the actual curve is? But we're basically getting to the point where that's resolved, where...
The supply, now we kind of adjusted. We made the decision to build more manufacturing lines. It took some time to do it. They're online now. It's not just about being able to make them. You need to get them into all the stores and get the distribution right. We feel like that's in a pretty good place now.
The supply, now we kind of adjusted. We made the decision to build more manufacturing lines. It took some time to do it. They're online now. It's not just about being able to make them. You need to get them into all the stores and get the distribution right. We feel like that's in a pretty good place now.
The supply, now we kind of adjusted. We made the decision to build more manufacturing lines. It took some time to do it. They're online now. It's not just about being able to make them. You need to get them into all the stores and get the distribution right. We feel like that's in a pretty good place now.
So I'd say over the rest of this year, we're going to start getting a real sense of the demand. But while that's going on, the glasses keep getting better because of over the air AI updates. So the hardware doesn't necessarily change, even though we keep shipping new frames and new type of, you know, they're adding more transitions lenses because people want to wear them indoors.
So I'd say over the rest of this year, we're going to start getting a real sense of the demand. But while that's going on, the glasses keep getting better because of over the air AI updates. So the hardware doesn't necessarily change, even though we keep shipping new frames and new type of, you know, they're adding more transitions lenses because people want to wear them indoors.
So I'd say over the rest of this year, we're going to start getting a real sense of the demand. But while that's going on, the glasses keep getting better because of over the air AI updates. So the hardware doesn't necessarily change, even though we keep shipping new frames and new type of, you know, they're adding more transitions lenses because people want to wear them indoors.
And that's an interesting thing because I mean, people, Sunglasses are a little more discretionary. So I think a lot more people early on were thinking, hey, I'll experiment with this with sunglasses. I'm not going to make these my primary glasses. Now we're seeing a lot more people say, hey, this is actually really useful. I want to be able to wear them inside.
And that's an interesting thing because I mean, people, Sunglasses are a little more discretionary. So I think a lot more people early on were thinking, hey, I'll experiment with this with sunglasses. I'm not going to make these my primary glasses. Now we're seeing a lot more people say, hey, this is actually really useful. I want to be able to wear them inside.
And that's an interesting thing because I mean, people, Sunglasses are a little more discretionary. So I think a lot more people early on were thinking, hey, I'll experiment with this with sunglasses. I'm not going to make these my primary glasses. Now we're seeing a lot more people say, hey, this is actually really useful. I want to be able to wear them inside.
I want them to be my primary glasses. So whether that's kind of working with them through the optical channel or the transitions, that's an important part. But the AI part of this is also, it just keeps getting better. I mean, we talked about it at Connect. I mean, basically... The ability to now, you know, over the next few months when we roll this out, real-time translations.
I want them to be my primary glasses. So whether that's kind of working with them through the optical channel or the transitions, that's an important part. But the AI part of this is also, it just keeps getting better. I mean, we talked about it at Connect. I mean, basically... The ability to now, you know, over the next few months when we roll this out, real-time translations.
I want them to be my primary glasses. So whether that's kind of working with them through the optical channel or the transitions, that's an important part. But the AI part of this is also, it just keeps getting better. I mean, we talked about it at Connect. I mean, basically... The ability to now, you know, over the next few months when we roll this out, real-time translations.
You're traveling abroad, someone's speaking Spanish to you, you just get it translated into English in your ear and just roll out to more and more languages over time. I think we're starting with a few. We'll kind of hit more over time.
You're traveling abroad, someone's speaking Spanish to you, you just get it translated into English in your ear and just roll out to more and more languages over time. I think we're starting with a few. We'll kind of hit more over time.
You're traveling abroad, someone's speaking Spanish to you, you just get it translated into English in your ear and just roll out to more and more languages over time. I think we're starting with a few. We'll kind of hit more over time.
Yeah, Reminders is a new picture.
Yeah, Reminders is a new picture.
Yeah, Reminders is a new picture.
Yeah, well, I think meta AI is becoming a more and more prominent feature of the classes, right? There's more stuff that you can do. So you just mentioned reminders, another example. It's like now that,
Yeah, well, I think meta AI is becoming a more and more prominent feature of the classes, right? There's more stuff that you can do. So you just mentioned reminders, another example. It's like now that,
Yeah, well, I think meta AI is becoming a more and more prominent feature of the classes, right? There's more stuff that you can do. So you just mentioned reminders, another example. It's like now that,
is just going to work and now your glasses can remind you of things and so okay so you can look at a phone number and say call this phone number and then it calls on the phone you know just we'll just add more capabilities over time and some of that are model updates right so like okay now it has llama 3.2 but some of it is is kind of software development around it like reminders you don't get for free just because we updated the model that's
is just going to work and now your glasses can remind you of things and so okay so you can look at a phone number and say call this phone number and then it calls on the phone you know just we'll just add more capabilities over time and some of that are model updates right so like okay now it has llama 3.2 but some of it is is kind of software development around it like reminders you don't get for free just because we updated the model that's
is just going to work and now your glasses can remind you of things and so okay so you can look at a phone number and say call this phone number and then it calls on the phone you know just we'll just add more capabilities over time and some of that are model updates right so like okay now it has llama 3.2 but some of it is is kind of software development around it like reminders you don't get for free just because we updated the model that's
We have this big software development effort, and we're kind of adding features continuously and developing the ecosystem, right? So you get more apps. So Spotify and all these different things kind of can work more natively. So the glasses just get more and more useful, which I think is also going to increase demand over time. And how does it interact with phones?
We have this big software development effort, and we're kind of adding features continuously and developing the ecosystem, right? So you get more apps. So Spotify and all these different things kind of can work more natively. So the glasses just get more and more useful, which I think is also going to increase demand over time. And how does it interact with phones?
We have this big software development effort, and we're kind of adding features continuously and developing the ecosystem, right? So you get more apps. So Spotify and all these different things kind of can work more natively. So the glasses just get more and more useful, which I think is also going to increase demand over time. And how does it interact with phones?
I mean, like you said, I don't think people are getting rid of phones anytime soon. The way I kind of think about this is that When phones became the primary computing platform, we didn't get rid of computers. We just kind of shifted, right?
I mean, like you said, I don't think people are getting rid of phones anytime soon. The way I kind of think about this is that When phones became the primary computing platform, we didn't get rid of computers. We just kind of shifted, right?
I mean, like you said, I don't think people are getting rid of phones anytime soon. The way I kind of think about this is that When phones became the primary computing platform, we didn't get rid of computers. We just kind of shifted, right?
So I don't know if you have this experience, but at some point in the early 2010s, I noticed that I'd be sitting at my desk in front of my computer and I'd just pull out my phone to do things. I think what's going to happen It's not like we're gonna throw away our phones, but I think slowly we're just gonna start doing more things with our glasses and leaving our phones in our pockets more.
So I don't know if you have this experience, but at some point in the early 2010s, I noticed that I'd be sitting at my desk in front of my computer and I'd just pull out my phone to do things. I think what's going to happen It's not like we're gonna throw away our phones, but I think slowly we're just gonna start doing more things with our glasses and leaving our phones in our pockets more.
So I don't know if you have this experience, but at some point in the early 2010s, I noticed that I'd be sitting at my desk in front of my computer and I'd just pull out my phone to do things. I think what's going to happen It's not like we're gonna throw away our phones, but I think slowly we're just gonna start doing more things with our glasses and leaving our phones in our pockets more.
And it's not like we're done with our computers and I don't think we're gonna be done with our phones for a while, but there's a pretty clear path where you're just gonna use your glasses for more and more things. Over time, glasses are also going to be able to be powered by wrist-based wearables or other wearables.
And it's not like we're done with our computers and I don't think we're gonna be done with our phones for a while, but there's a pretty clear path where you're just gonna use your glasses for more and more things. Over time, glasses are also going to be able to be powered by wrist-based wearables or other wearables.
And it's not like we're done with our computers and I don't think we're gonna be done with our phones for a while, but there's a pretty clear path where you're just gonna use your glasses for more and more things. Over time, glasses are also going to be able to be powered by wrist-based wearables or other wearables.
So you're going to wake up one day 10 years from now, and you're not even going to need to bring your phone with you. Now, you're still going to have a phone, but I think more of the time people are going to leave it in their pocket or leave it in their bag or eventually even some of the time leave it at home.
So you're going to wake up one day 10 years from now, and you're not even going to need to bring your phone with you. Now, you're still going to have a phone, but I think more of the time people are going to leave it in their pocket or leave it in their bag or eventually even some of the time leave it at home.
So you're going to wake up one day 10 years from now, and you're not even going to need to bring your phone with you. Now, you're still going to have a phone, but I think more of the time people are going to leave it in their pocket or leave it in their bag or eventually even some of the time leave it at home.
And I think there will just be this sort of gradual shift to glasses becoming the main way that we do computing.
And I think there will just be this sort of gradual shift to glasses becoming the main way that we do computing.
And I think there will just be this sort of gradual shift to glasses becoming the main way that we do computing.
I agree. I mean, I still think it's early. I think you really want to be able to not just ask the AI questions, but ask it to do things. Yeah. and know that it's going to reliably go do it. And we're starting with simple things, right? So voice control of your glasses, although you can do that on phones too, things like reminders, although you can generally do that on phones too.
I agree. I mean, I still think it's early. I think you really want to be able to not just ask the AI questions, but ask it to do things. Yeah. and know that it's going to reliably go do it. And we're starting with simple things, right? So voice control of your glasses, although you can do that on phones too, things like reminders, although you can generally do that on phones too.
I agree. I mean, I still think it's early. I think you really want to be able to not just ask the AI questions, but ask it to do things. Yeah. and know that it's going to reliably go do it. And we're starting with simple things, right? So voice control of your glasses, although you can do that on phones too, things like reminders, although you can generally do that on phones too.
I think as the model capabilities grow over the next couple of generations and you get more of what people call these agentic capabilities, I think it's gonna start to get pretty exciting. For what it's worth, I also think that all the AI work is gonna make phones a lot more exciting. It's the most exciting thing I think that has happened to our
I think as the model capabilities grow over the next couple of generations and you get more of what people call these agentic capabilities, I think it's gonna start to get pretty exciting. For what it's worth, I also think that all the AI work is gonna make phones a lot more exciting. It's the most exciting thing I think that has happened to our
I think as the model capabilities grow over the next couple of generations and you get more of what people call these agentic capabilities, I think it's gonna start to get pretty exciting. For what it's worth, I also think that all the AI work is gonna make phones a lot more exciting. It's the most exciting thing I think that has happened to our
family of apps roadmap in a long time is all of the different AI things that we're building. So if I were at any of the other companies, I think that if I were trying to design what the next few versions of iPhone or Google's phone should be, I think that there's a long and interesting roadmap of things that they can go do with AI that as an app developer, we can't.
family of apps roadmap in a long time is all of the different AI things that we're building. So if I were at any of the other companies, I think that if I were trying to design what the next few versions of iPhone or Google's phone should be, I think that there's a long and interesting roadmap of things that they can go do with AI that as an app developer, we can't.
family of apps roadmap in a long time is all of the different AI things that we're building. So if I were at any of the other companies, I think that if I were trying to design what the next few versions of iPhone or Google's phone should be, I think that there's a long and interesting roadmap of things that they can go do with AI that as an app developer, we can't.
So I think that that's a pretty exciting and interesting thing for them to go do, which I assume that they will.
So I think that that's a pretty exciting and interesting thing for them to go do, which I assume that they will.
So I think that that's a pretty exciting and interesting thing for them to go do, which I assume that they will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, here's how I come at this. So in the history of running the company, where we've been building these apps for 20 years, Every, call it three to five years, there's some new major format that comes along that is typically additive to the experience, right?
Well, here's how I come at this. So in the history of running the company, where we've been building these apps for 20 years, Every, call it three to five years, there's some new major format that comes along that is typically additive to the experience, right?
Well, here's how I come at this. So in the history of running the company, where we've been building these apps for 20 years, Every, call it three to five years, there's some new major format that comes along that is typically additive to the experience, right?
So, you know, initially people kind of updated their profiles, then they were able to post statuses that were text, then links, then you got photos early on, then you added videos, then with mobile. Basically, Snap invented Stories, the first version of that, and that became a pretty kind of widely used format. The whole version of short form videos, I think, is sort of a still ascendant format.
So, you know, initially people kind of updated their profiles, then they were able to post statuses that were text, then links, then you got photos early on, then you added videos, then with mobile. Basically, Snap invented Stories, the first version of that, and that became a pretty kind of widely used format. The whole version of short form videos, I think, is sort of a still ascendant format.
So, you know, initially people kind of updated their profiles, then they were able to post statuses that were text, then links, then you got photos early on, then you added videos, then with mobile. Basically, Snap invented Stories, the first version of that, and that became a pretty kind of widely used format. The whole version of short form videos, I think, is sort of a still ascendant format.
But at each step along the way, you want to... It's like you keep on making the system richer by having more different types of content that people can share and different ways to express themselves.
But at each step along the way, you want to... It's like you keep on making the system richer by having more different types of content that people can share and different ways to express themselves.
But at each step along the way, you want to... It's like you keep on making the system richer by having more different types of content that people can share and different ways to express themselves.
And when you look out for the next 10 years of, okay, if this trend seems to happen where every three, five years, whatever the pace is, that there are new formats, I think given the pace of change in the tech industry, I think you'd bet that that continues or accelerates. And I think you'd bet that...
And when you look out for the next 10 years of, okay, if this trend seems to happen where every three, five years, whatever the pace is, that there are new formats, I think given the pace of change in the tech industry, I think you'd bet that that continues or accelerates. And I think you'd bet that...
And when you look out for the next 10 years of, okay, if this trend seems to happen where every three, five years, whatever the pace is, that there are new formats, I think given the pace of change in the tech industry, I think you'd bet that that continues or accelerates. And I think you'd bet that...
probably most of the new formats are going to be kind of AI connected in some way, given that that's the kind of driving theme for the industry at this point. So given that kind of set of assumptions, we're sort of trying to understand what are the things that are most useful to people within that. There's one vein of this, which is helping people and creators make better content using AI.
probably most of the new formats are going to be kind of AI connected in some way, given that that's the kind of driving theme for the industry at this point. So given that kind of set of assumptions, we're sort of trying to understand what are the things that are most useful to people within that. There's one vein of this, which is helping people and creators make better content using AI.
probably most of the new formats are going to be kind of AI connected in some way, given that that's the kind of driving theme for the industry at this point. So given that kind of set of assumptions, we're sort of trying to understand what are the things that are most useful to people within that. There's one vein of this, which is helping people and creators make better content using AI.
That I think is going to be pretty clear, right? Just make it like super easy for like aspiring creators or advanced creators to make much better stuff than they would be able to otherwise. That can take the format of like, all right, like my daughter is writing a book and she wants it illustrated.
That I think is going to be pretty clear, right? Just make it like super easy for like aspiring creators or advanced creators to make much better stuff than they would be able to otherwise. That can take the format of like, all right, like my daughter is writing a book and she wants it illustrated.
That I think is going to be pretty clear, right? Just make it like super easy for like aspiring creators or advanced creators to make much better stuff than they would be able to otherwise. That can take the format of like, all right, like my daughter is writing a book and she wants it illustrated.
And like we sit down together and work with Meta AI and imagine to help her come up with images to illustrate it.
And like we sit down together and work with Meta AI and imagine to help her come up with images to illustrate it.
And like we sit down together and work with Meta AI and imagine to help her come up with images to illustrate it.
like okay that's like a thing that's like she didn't have the capability to do that before she's not a graphic designer but now she kind of has that that that ability i think that's going to be pretty cool then i think that there's a version where you have just this great diversity of ai agents that are as part of this system and this i think is a big difference between our vision of ai and most of the other companies is yeah we're building meta ai as kind of the main assistant that you can build
like okay that's like a thing that's like she didn't have the capability to do that before she's not a graphic designer but now she kind of has that that that ability i think that's going to be pretty cool then i think that there's a version where you have just this great diversity of ai agents that are as part of this system and this i think is a big difference between our vision of ai and most of the other companies is yeah we're building meta ai as kind of the main assistant that you can build
like okay that's like a thing that's like she didn't have the capability to do that before she's not a graphic designer but now she kind of has that that that ability i think that's going to be pretty cool then i think that there's a version where you have just this great diversity of ai agents that are as part of this system and this i think is a big difference between our vision of ai and most of the other companies is yeah we're building meta ai as kind of the main assistant that you can build
that's sort of equivalent to the singular assistant that maybe like a Google or an OpenAI or different folks are building. But it's not really the main thing that we're doing. Our main vision is that we think that there are going to be a lot of these, right?
that's sort of equivalent to the singular assistant that maybe like a Google or an OpenAI or different folks are building. But it's not really the main thing that we're doing. Our main vision is that we think that there are going to be a lot of these, right?
that's sort of equivalent to the singular assistant that maybe like a Google or an OpenAI or different folks are building. But it's not really the main thing that we're doing. Our main vision is that we think that there are going to be a lot of these, right?
It's every business, all the hundreds of millions of small businesses, you know, just like they have a website and an email address and a social media account today. I think that they're all going to have an AI that helps them interact with their customers in the future that does some combination of sales and customer support and all that.
It's every business, all the hundreds of millions of small businesses, you know, just like they have a website and an email address and a social media account today. I think that they're all going to have an AI that helps them interact with their customers in the future that does some combination of sales and customer support and all that.
It's every business, all the hundreds of millions of small businesses, you know, just like they have a website and an email address and a social media account today. I think that they're all going to have an AI that helps them interact with their customers in the future that does some combination of sales and customer support and all that.
I think all the creators are basically going to want some version of this that basically helps them interact with their community when they're just limited by they don't have enough hours in the day to interact with all the messages that are coming in and They want to make sure that they can show some love to people in their community.
I think all the creators are basically going to want some version of this that basically helps them interact with their community when they're just limited by they don't have enough hours in the day to interact with all the messages that are coming in and They want to make sure that they can show some love to people in their community.
I think all the creators are basically going to want some version of this that basically helps them interact with their community when they're just limited by they don't have enough hours in the day to interact with all the messages that are coming in and They want to make sure that they can show some love to people in their community.
And those, I think, are just the two most obvious ones that even if we just did those, that's many hundreds of millions. But then there's going to be all this more creative stuff that's UGC that people create that are kind of wilder use cases that they want. And our view is, okay, these are all going to live across these social networks and beyond. I don't think that they should just...
And those, I think, are just the two most obvious ones that even if we just did those, that's many hundreds of millions. But then there's going to be all this more creative stuff that's UGC that people create that are kind of wilder use cases that they want. And our view is, okay, these are all going to live across these social networks and beyond. I don't think that they should just...
And those, I think, are just the two most obvious ones that even if we just did those, that's many hundreds of millions. But then there's going to be all this more creative stuff that's UGC that people create that are kind of wilder use cases that they want. And our view is, okay, these are all going to live across these social networks and beyond. I don't think that they should just...
be constrained to waiting until someone messages them right i think that they're going to have their own profiles they're going to be creating content people will be able to follow them if they want you'll be able to comment on their stuff they may be able to comment on your stuff if you're connected with them i mean there will obviously be different different logic and rules but that's one way that there's going to be just a lot more kind of ai participants in the
be constrained to waiting until someone messages them right i think that they're going to have their own profiles they're going to be creating content people will be able to follow them if they want you'll be able to comment on their stuff they may be able to comment on your stuff if you're connected with them i mean there will obviously be different different logic and rules but that's one way that there's going to be just a lot more kind of ai participants in the
be constrained to waiting until someone messages them right i think that they're going to have their own profiles they're going to be creating content people will be able to follow them if they want you'll be able to comment on their stuff they may be able to comment on your stuff if you're connected with them i mean there will obviously be different different logic and rules but that's one way that there's going to be just a lot more kind of ai participants in the
broader social construct that we have. And then I think you get to the test that you mentioned, which is maybe the most abstract, which is just having the central meta AI system
broader social construct that we have. And then I think you get to the test that you mentioned, which is maybe the most abstract, which is just having the central meta AI system
broader social construct that we have. And then I think you get to the test that you mentioned, which is maybe the most abstract, which is just having the central meta AI system
Directly generate content for you based on what we think is gonna be interesting to you and putting that in your feed on that there's been this trend over time where the feed started off as Primarily and exclusively content for people you you followed friends I guess it was friends early on then it kind of broadened out to okay you followed a set of friends and creators and then
Directly generate content for you based on what we think is gonna be interesting to you and putting that in your feed on that there's been this trend over time where the feed started off as Primarily and exclusively content for people you you followed friends I guess it was friends early on then it kind of broadened out to okay you followed a set of friends and creators and then
Directly generate content for you based on what we think is gonna be interesting to you and putting that in your feed on that there's been this trend over time where the feed started off as Primarily and exclusively content for people you you followed friends I guess it was friends early on then it kind of broadened out to okay you followed a set of friends and creators and then
It got to a point where the algorithm was good enough where we're actually showing you a lot of stuff that you're not following directly because in some ways that's a better way to show you more interesting stuff than only constraining it to things that you've chosen to follow.
It got to a point where the algorithm was good enough where we're actually showing you a lot of stuff that you're not following directly because in some ways that's a better way to show you more interesting stuff than only constraining it to things that you've chosen to follow.
It got to a point where the algorithm was good enough where we're actually showing you a lot of stuff that you're not following directly because in some ways that's a better way to show you more interesting stuff than only constraining it to things that you've chosen to follow.
I think the next logical jump on that is like, okay, we're showing you content from your friends and creators that you're following and creators that you're not following that are generating interesting things. And you just add on to that a layer of, okay, and we're also going to show you content that's generated by an AI system that might be something that you're interested in.
I think the next logical jump on that is like, okay, we're showing you content from your friends and creators that you're following and creators that you're not following that are generating interesting things. And you just add on to that a layer of, okay, and we're also going to show you content that's generated by an AI system that might be something that you're interested in.
I think the next logical jump on that is like, okay, we're showing you content from your friends and creators that you're following and creators that you're not following that are generating interesting things. And you just add on to that a layer of, okay, and we're also going to show you content that's generated by an AI system that might be something that you're interested in.
Now, how big do any of these segments get? I think it's really hard to know until you build them out over time. It feels like it is a category in the world that's going to exist. And how big it gets is kind of dependent on the execution and how good it is.
Now, how big do any of these segments get? I think it's really hard to know until you build them out over time. It feels like it is a category in the world that's going to exist. And how big it gets is kind of dependent on the execution and how good it is.
Now, how big do any of these segments get? I think it's really hard to know until you build them out over time. It feels like it is a category in the world that's going to exist. And how big it gets is kind of dependent on the execution and how good it is.
Well, I think the main difference... And that feels big. Yeah, but in a lot of ways, the big change already happened, which is people getting content that they weren't following. And the definition of feeds and social interaction has changed very fundamentally in the last 10 years. Now, in social systems...
Well, I think the main difference... And that feels big. Yeah, but in a lot of ways, the big change already happened, which is people getting content that they weren't following. And the definition of feeds and social interaction has changed very fundamentally in the last 10 years. Now, in social systems...
Well, I think the main difference... And that feels big. Yeah, but in a lot of ways, the big change already happened, which is people getting content that they weren't following. And the definition of feeds and social interaction has changed very fundamentally in the last 10 years. Now, in social systems...
Most of the direct interaction is happening in more private forums and messaging our groups. This is one of the reasons I think why we were late with Reels initially to competing with TikTok is because we hadn't made this mental shift where we kind of felt like, no, feed is where you interact with people.
Most of the direct interaction is happening in more private forums and messaging our groups. This is one of the reasons I think why we were late with Reels initially to competing with TikTok is because we hadn't made this mental shift where we kind of felt like, no, feed is where you interact with people.
Most of the direct interaction is happening in more private forums and messaging our groups. This is one of the reasons I think why we were late with Reels initially to competing with TikTok is because we hadn't made this mental shift where we kind of felt like, no, feed is where you interact with people.
Actually, increasingly, feed is becoming a place where you discover content that you then take to your private forums and interact with people there. So a lot of the way that I interact with people, it's like, yeah, I'll still have the thing where A friend will post something and I'll comment on it and engage directly in feed. Again, this is additive. You're adding more over time.
Actually, increasingly, feed is becoming a place where you discover content that you then take to your private forums and interact with people there. So a lot of the way that I interact with people, it's like, yeah, I'll still have the thing where A friend will post something and I'll comment on it and engage directly in feed. Again, this is additive. You're adding more over time.
Actually, increasingly, feed is becoming a place where you discover content that you then take to your private forums and interact with people there. So a lot of the way that I interact with people, it's like, yeah, I'll still have the thing where A friend will post something and I'll comment on it and engage directly in feed. Again, this is additive. You're adding more over time.
But the main way that you engage with Reels isn't necessarily that you go into the Reels comments and comment and talk to people you don't know. It's like you see something funny and you send it to friends in a group chat. I think that that paradigm will absolutely continue with AI and all kinds of interesting content. So it is facilitating connections with people, but...
But the main way that you engage with Reels isn't necessarily that you go into the Reels comments and comment and talk to people you don't know. It's like you see something funny and you send it to friends in a group chat. I think that that paradigm will absolutely continue with AI and all kinds of interesting content. So it is facilitating connections with people, but...
But the main way that you engage with Reels isn't necessarily that you go into the Reels comments and comment and talk to people you don't know. It's like you see something funny and you send it to friends in a group chat. I think that that paradigm will absolutely continue with AI and all kinds of interesting content. So it is facilitating connections with people, but...
i think already we're in this mode where our connections through social media are shifting to more private places and the role of feed in the ecosystem is more as a you know i call it a discovery engine of content to kind of you know icebreakers or interesting kind of topic starters for the conversations that you're having across this like broader spectrum of places where you're interacting
i think already we're in this mode where our connections through social media are shifting to more private places and the role of feed in the ecosystem is more as a you know i call it a discovery engine of content to kind of you know icebreakers or interesting kind of topic starters for the conversations that you're having across this like broader spectrum of places where you're interacting
i think already we're in this mode where our connections through social media are shifting to more private places and the role of feed in the ecosystem is more as a you know i call it a discovery engine of content to kind of you know icebreakers or interesting kind of topic starters for the conversations that you're having across this like broader spectrum of places where you're interacting
I mean, the sociology that I've seen on this is that most people have way fewer friends physically than they would like to have. I think people cherish the kind of human connection that they have.
I mean, the sociology that I've seen on this is that most people have way fewer friends physically than they would like to have. I think people cherish the kind of human connection that they have.
I mean, the sociology that I've seen on this is that most people have way fewer friends physically than they would like to have. I think people cherish the kind of human connection that they have.
And the more we can do to make that feel more real and give you more reasons to connect, whether it's through something funny that shows up so you can message someone or a pair of glasses that lets your sister show up as a hologram in your living room when she lives across the country and you wouldn't be able to see her otherwise.
And the more we can do to make that feel more real and give you more reasons to connect, whether it's through something funny that shows up so you can message someone or a pair of glasses that lets your sister show up as a hologram in your living room when she lives across the country and you wouldn't be able to see her otherwise.
And the more we can do to make that feel more real and give you more reasons to connect, whether it's through something funny that shows up so you can message someone or a pair of glasses that lets your sister show up as a hologram in your living room when she lives across the country and you wouldn't be able to see her otherwise.
That's always kind of our main bread and butter in the thing that we're doing. But in addition to that, I mean, if the, you know, the average person, I think, you know, maybe they'd like to have 10 friends. And I mean, there's the stat that it's like, it's sort of sad, but I think the average American feels like they have fewer than three, like real kind of close friends. So.
That's always kind of our main bread and butter in the thing that we're doing. But in addition to that, I mean, if the, you know, the average person, I think, you know, maybe they'd like to have 10 friends. And I mean, there's the stat that it's like, it's sort of sad, but I think the average American feels like they have fewer than three, like real kind of close friends. So.
That's always kind of our main bread and butter in the thing that we're doing. But in addition to that, I mean, if the, you know, the average person, I think, you know, maybe they'd like to have 10 friends. And I mean, there's the stat that it's like, it's sort of sad, but I think the average American feels like they have fewer than three, like real kind of close friends. So.
Does this take away from that? My guess is no. I think that what's going to happen is it's going to help give people more of the support that they need and give people more kind of reasons and ability to connect with either a broader range of people or more deeply with the people that they care about. We need to take another quick break.
Does this take away from that? My guess is no. I think that what's going to happen is it's going to help give people more of the support that they need and give people more kind of reasons and ability to connect with either a broader range of people or more deeply with the people that they care about. We need to take another quick break.
Does this take away from that? My guess is no. I think that what's going to happen is it's going to help give people more of the support that they need and give people more kind of reasons and ability to connect with either a broader range of people or more deeply with the people that they care about. We need to take another quick break.
I mean, Threads on fire. It's great. I mean, these things, it's like, there's only so quickly that something can get to a billion people. So it's going to, you know, we'll kind of keep on pushing on it over time.
I mean, Threads on fire. It's great. I mean, these things, it's like, there's only so quickly that something can get to a billion people. So it's going to, you know, we'll kind of keep on pushing on it over time.
I mean, Threads on fire. It's great. I mean, these things, it's like, there's only so quickly that something can get to a billion people. So it's going to, you know, we'll kind of keep on pushing on it over time.
I mean, I think that these things all connect to each other. I mean, I think threads helps Instagram. I think Instagram helps threads. I don't know that we have some strategic goal, which is like make it so that threads is completely disconnected from Instagram or Facebook. I actually think we're going the other direction.
I mean, I think that these things all connect to each other. I mean, I think threads helps Instagram. I think Instagram helps threads. I don't know that we have some strategic goal, which is like make it so that threads is completely disconnected from Instagram or Facebook. I actually think we're going the other direction.
I mean, I think that these things all connect to each other. I mean, I think threads helps Instagram. I think Instagram helps threads. I don't know that we have some strategic goal, which is like make it so that threads is completely disconnected from Instagram or Facebook. I actually think we're going the other direction.
It started off just connected to Instagram and now we also connected it so that the content can show up. You know, taking a step back, I mean, we just talked about how for most people, they're interacting in more private forums. If you're a creator, what you want to do is have your content show up everywhere, right?
It started off just connected to Instagram and now we also connected it so that the content can show up. You know, taking a step back, I mean, we just talked about how for most people, they're interacting in more private forums. If you're a creator, what you want to do is have your content show up everywhere, right?
It started off just connected to Instagram and now we also connected it so that the content can show up. You know, taking a step back, I mean, we just talked about how for most people, they're interacting in more private forums. If you're a creator, what you want to do is have your content show up everywhere, right?
Because you're trying to build the biggest community that you can in these different places. So it's this huge value for people if they can generate a reel or a video or some text-based content, and now you can post it in threads, Instagram, Facebook, and more places over time. So I think the direction there is generally kind of more flow, not less, and kind of more interoperability.
Because you're trying to build the biggest community that you can in these different places. So it's this huge value for people if they can generate a reel or a video or some text-based content, and now you can post it in threads, Instagram, Facebook, and more places over time. So I think the direction there is generally kind of more flow, not less, and kind of more interoperability.
Because you're trying to build the biggest community that you can in these different places. So it's this huge value for people if they can generate a reel or a video or some text-based content, and now you can post it in threads, Instagram, Facebook, and more places over time. So I think the direction there is generally kind of more flow, not less, and kind of more interoperability.
And that's why I've been kind of pushing on that as a theme over time.
And that's why I've been kind of pushing on that as a theme over time.
And that's why I've been kind of pushing on that as a theme over time.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. There are different ways to look at this. I always looked at Twitter not as primarily about real-time news, but as a kind of short-form, primarily text, discussion-oriented app. To me, the fundamental defining aspect of that format is that... When you make a post, the comments aren't subordinate to the post.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. There are different ways to look at this. I always looked at Twitter not as primarily about real-time news, but as a kind of short-form, primarily text, discussion-oriented app. To me, the fundamental defining aspect of that format is that... When you make a post, the comments aren't subordinate to the post.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. There are different ways to look at this. I always looked at Twitter not as primarily about real-time news, but as a kind of short-form, primarily text, discussion-oriented app. To me, the fundamental defining aspect of that format is that... When you make a post, the comments aren't subordinate to the post.
The comments are kind of at a peer level, and that is a very different architecture than every other type of social network that's out there. It's a subtle difference, but within these systems, these subtle differences lead to very different emerging behaviors. So because of that, people can take, they can fork discussions, and it makes it a very good discussion-oriented platform.
The comments are kind of at a peer level, and that is a very different architecture than every other type of social network that's out there. It's a subtle difference, but within these systems, these subtle differences lead to very different emerging behaviors. So because of that, people can take, they can fork discussions, and it makes it a very good discussion-oriented platform.
The comments are kind of at a peer level, and that is a very different architecture than every other type of social network that's out there. It's a subtle difference, but within these systems, these subtle differences lead to very different emerging behaviors. So because of that, people can take, they can fork discussions, and it makes it a very good discussion-oriented platform.
Now, news is one thing that people like discussing, but it's not the only thing. And I always looked at Twitter and I was like, hey, this is such a wasted opportunity. Like, this is clearly a billion-person app. You know, maybe in the modern day when you have multiple, like, many billions of people using social apps, it should be multiple billions of people.
Now, news is one thing that people like discussing, but it's not the only thing. And I always looked at Twitter and I was like, hey, this is such a wasted opportunity. Like, this is clearly a billion-person app. You know, maybe in the modern day when you have multiple, like, many billions of people using social apps, it should be multiple billions of people.
Now, news is one thing that people like discussing, but it's not the only thing. And I always looked at Twitter and I was like, hey, this is such a wasted opportunity. Like, this is clearly a billion-person app. You know, maybe in the modern day when you have multiple, like, many billions of people using social apps, it should be multiple billions of people.
For whatever reason, I mean, there are a lot of things that have been complicated about Twitter and the corporate structure and all that, but they just weren't quite getting there. And eventually... I kind of thought, hey, I think we can do this.
For whatever reason, I mean, there are a lot of things that have been complicated about Twitter and the corporate structure and all that, but they just weren't quite getting there. And eventually... I kind of thought, hey, I think we can do this.
For whatever reason, I mean, there are a lot of things that have been complicated about Twitter and the corporate structure and all that, but they just weren't quite getting there. And eventually... I kind of thought, hey, I think we can do this.
I think we can get this, build out the discussion platform in a way that can get to a billion people and be more of a ubiquitous social platform that I think achieves its full potential. But our version of this is we want it to be a kinder place. We don't want it to start with kind of the direct kind of head-to-head combat of news and especially politics. And
I think we can get this, build out the discussion platform in a way that can get to a billion people and be more of a ubiquitous social platform that I think achieves its full potential. But our version of this is we want it to be a kinder place. We don't want it to start with kind of the direct kind of head-to-head combat of news and especially politics. And
I think we can get this, build out the discussion platform in a way that can get to a billion people and be more of a ubiquitous social platform that I think achieves its full potential. But our version of this is we want it to be a kinder place. We don't want it to start with kind of the direct kind of head-to-head combat of news and especially politics. And
I mean, I think we'll see.
I mean, I think we'll see.
I mean, I think we'll see.
Yeah, well, we're not the only company. There are a ton of different competitors and different companies doing things. And I think that there's a talented team over at Twitter and X and I wouldn't write them off. And then obviously there's all these other folks, there's a lot of startups that are doing stuff. So I don't feel like we have to go at that first.
Yeah, well, we're not the only company. There are a ton of different competitors and different companies doing things. And I think that there's a talented team over at Twitter and X and I wouldn't write them off. And then obviously there's all these other folks, there's a lot of startups that are doing stuff. So I don't feel like we have to go at that first.
Yeah, well, we're not the only company. There are a ton of different competitors and different companies doing things. And I think that there's a talented team over at Twitter and X and I wouldn't write them off. And then obviously there's all these other folks, there's a lot of startups that are doing stuff. So I don't feel like we have to go at that first.
I think that maybe we get there over time or maybe we decide that it's enough of a zero sum trade or maybe even a negative sum trade where like that use case should exist somewhere, but maybe that use case prevents a lot more usage and kind of a lot more value in other places because it makes it a somewhat less friendly place.
I think that maybe we get there over time or maybe we decide that it's enough of a zero sum trade or maybe even a negative sum trade where like that use case should exist somewhere, but maybe that use case prevents a lot more usage and kind of a lot more value in other places because it makes it a somewhat less friendly place.
I think that maybe we get there over time or maybe we decide that it's enough of a zero sum trade or maybe even a negative sum trade where like that use case should exist somewhere, but maybe that use case prevents a lot more usage and kind of a lot more value in other places because it makes it a somewhat less friendly place.
I don't think we know the answer to that yet, but I do think the last 10 years eight years of our experience has been that the political discourse, it's tricky, right? It's on the one hand, it's obviously a very important thing in society. And on the other hand, I don't think it leaves people feeling good. So I'm torn between these two values.
I don't think we know the answer to that yet, but I do think the last 10 years eight years of our experience has been that the political discourse, it's tricky, right? It's on the one hand, it's obviously a very important thing in society. And on the other hand, I don't think it leaves people feeling good. So I'm torn between these two values.
I don't think we know the answer to that yet, but I do think the last 10 years eight years of our experience has been that the political discourse, it's tricky, right? It's on the one hand, it's obviously a very important thing in society. And on the other hand, I don't think it leaves people feeling good. So I'm torn between these two values.
On the one hand, I think like people should be able to have this kind of open discourse and that's good. On the other hand, I don't want to design a product that makes people angry. There's an informational lens for looking at this, and you're designing a product, and what's the feel of the product? I think anyone who's designing a product cares a lot about how the thing feels. And
On the one hand, I think like people should be able to have this kind of open discourse and that's good. On the other hand, I don't want to design a product that makes people angry. There's an informational lens for looking at this, and you're designing a product, and what's the feel of the product? I think anyone who's designing a product cares a lot about how the thing feels. And
On the one hand, I think like people should be able to have this kind of open discourse and that's good. On the other hand, I don't want to design a product that makes people angry. There's an informational lens for looking at this, and you're designing a product, and what's the feel of the product? I think anyone who's designing a product cares a lot about how the thing feels. And
I think it's useful. And look, we don't block it. We just make it so that for the content where you're following people, if you want to talk to your friends about it, if you want to talk to them about it in messaging, there can be groups about it. If you follow people, it can show up in your feed. But we don't go out of our way to recommend that content when you're not following it. And...
I think it's useful. And look, we don't block it. We just make it so that for the content where you're following people, if you want to talk to your friends about it, if you want to talk to them about it in messaging, there can be groups about it. If you follow people, it can show up in your feed. But we don't go out of our way to recommend that content when you're not following it. And...
I think it's useful. And look, we don't block it. We just make it so that for the content where you're following people, if you want to talk to your friends about it, if you want to talk to them about it in messaging, there can be groups about it. If you follow people, it can show up in your feed. But we don't go out of our way to recommend that content when you're not following it. And...
I think that that has been a healthy balance for us and for getting our products to generally feel the way that we want. And, you know, culture changes over time. Maybe this stuff will be like a little bit less polarized and anger inducing at some point. And maybe it'll be possible to have more of that. while also at the same time having a product where we're proud of how it feels.
I think that that has been a healthy balance for us and for getting our products to generally feel the way that we want. And, you know, culture changes over time. Maybe this stuff will be like a little bit less polarized and anger inducing at some point. And maybe it'll be possible to have more of that. while also at the same time having a product where we're proud of how it feels.
I think that that has been a healthy balance for us and for getting our products to generally feel the way that we want. And, you know, culture changes over time. Maybe this stuff will be like a little bit less polarized and anger inducing at some point. And maybe it'll be possible to have more of that. while also at the same time having a product where we're proud of how it feels.
But until then, I think we want to design a product that, yeah, people can get the things that they want. But, you know, fundamentally, I care a lot about how people feel coming away from the products.
But until then, I think we want to design a product that, yeah, people can get the things that they want. But, you know, fundamentally, I care a lot about how people feel coming away from the products.
But until then, I think we want to design a product that, yeah, people can get the things that they want. But, you know, fundamentally, I care a lot about how people feel coming away from the products.
I mean, I'm sure it's all connected. I think in this case, it wasn't a trade-off between those two things because this actually was what our community was telling us. And people were saying, generally, we don't want so much politics. Like, this isn't, you know, like, we don't feel good. Like, we want content. We want more stuff from our friends and family. We want more stuff from our interests.
I mean, I'm sure it's all connected. I think in this case, it wasn't a trade-off between those two things because this actually was what our community was telling us. And people were saying, generally, we don't want so much politics. Like, this isn't, you know, like, we don't feel good. Like, we want content. We want more stuff from our friends and family. We want more stuff from our interests.
I mean, I'm sure it's all connected. I think in this case, it wasn't a trade-off between those two things because this actually was what our community was telling us. And people were saying, generally, we don't want so much politics. Like, this isn't, you know, like, we don't feel good. Like, we want content. We want more stuff from our friends and family. We want more stuff from our interests.
That was kind of the primary driver. But I think it's definitely the case that our corporate experience on this shaped this. And... I mean, there's a big difference between something being political and being partisan.
That was kind of the primary driver. But I think it's definitely the case that our corporate experience on this shaped this. And... I mean, there's a big difference between something being political and being partisan.
That was kind of the primary driver. But I think it's definitely the case that our corporate experience on this shaped this. And... I mean, there's a big difference between something being political and being partisan.
And the main thing that I care about is making sure that we can be seen as a nonpartisan and, you know, as much as something can in the world in 2024 be sort of like a trusted institution by as many people as possible. And I just think that the partisan politics is so tough in the world right now that...
And the main thing that I care about is making sure that we can be seen as a nonpartisan and, you know, as much as something can in the world in 2024 be sort of like a trusted institution by as many people as possible. And I just think that the partisan politics is so tough in the world right now that...
And the main thing that I care about is making sure that we can be seen as a nonpartisan and, you know, as much as something can in the world in 2024 be sort of like a trusted institution by as many people as possible. And I just think that the partisan politics is so tough in the world right now that...
I've made the decision that I kind of feel like for me and for the company, best thing to do is to try to be as nonpartisan as possible in all of this and kind of be as neutral and distance ourselves as much as possible. And it's not just the substance. I also think the perception matters.
I've made the decision that I kind of feel like for me and for the company, best thing to do is to try to be as nonpartisan as possible in all of this and kind of be as neutral and distance ourselves as much as possible. And it's not just the substance. I also think the perception matters.
I've made the decision that I kind of feel like for me and for the company, best thing to do is to try to be as nonpartisan as possible in all of this and kind of be as neutral and distance ourselves as much as possible. And it's not just the substance. I also think the perception matters.
So I think, so that's why, you know, and maybe, you know, it doesn't matter on our platforms whether I endorse a candidate or not, but like, I don't even, I don't want to go anywhere near that. And yeah, sure. I mean, you could say that's a political strategy, but I think it's, you know, I think for where we are in the world today, it's very hard.
So I think, so that's why, you know, and maybe, you know, it doesn't matter on our platforms whether I endorse a candidate or not, but like, I don't even, I don't want to go anywhere near that. And yeah, sure. I mean, you could say that's a political strategy, but I think it's, you know, I think for where we are in the world today, it's very hard.
So I think, so that's why, you know, and maybe, you know, it doesn't matter on our platforms whether I endorse a candidate or not, but like, I don't even, I don't want to go anywhere near that. And yeah, sure. I mean, you could say that's a political strategy, but I think it's, you know, I think for where we are in the world today, it's very hard.
Almost every institution has become partisan in some way. And we are just trying to resist that. And maybe I'm too naive and maybe that's impossible, but we're going to try to do that.
Almost every institution has become partisan in some way. And we are just trying to resist that. And maybe I'm too naive and maybe that's impossible, but we're going to try to do that.
Almost every institution has become partisan in some way. And we are just trying to resist that. And maybe I'm too naive and maybe that's impossible, but we're going to try to do that.
I'm just talking about where our brand is and our reputation are compared to where I think they would have been. I mean, there's no doubt that even now here in, okay, yeah, sure, maybe things have improved somewhat over the last few years, you can feel the trend, but it's still significantly worse than it was in 2016.
I'm just talking about where our brand is and our reputation are compared to where I think they would have been. I mean, there's no doubt that even now here in, okay, yeah, sure, maybe things have improved somewhat over the last few years, you can feel the trend, but it's still significantly worse than it was in 2016.
I'm just talking about where our brand is and our reputation are compared to where I think they would have been. I mean, there's no doubt that even now here in, okay, yeah, sure, maybe things have improved somewhat over the last few years, you can feel the trend, but it's still significantly worse than it was in 2016.
You know, it's, I mean, the internet industry overall, and I think our company in particular, just we're seeing way more positively. And Now, look, there were real issues, right?
You know, it's, I mean, the internet industry overall, and I think our company in particular, just we're seeing way more positively. And Now, look, there were real issues, right?
You know, it's, I mean, the internet industry overall, and I think our company in particular, just we're seeing way more positively. And Now, look, there were real issues, right?
So I think that it's always very difficult to talk about this stuff in a nuanced way because I think to some degree before 2016, everyone was sort of too rosy about the internet overall and didn't talk enough about the issues. And then the pendulum sort of swung and people only talked about the issues and didn't talk about the stuff that was positive. And it was all both there the whole time.
So I think that it's always very difficult to talk about this stuff in a nuanced way because I think to some degree before 2016, everyone was sort of too rosy about the internet overall and didn't talk enough about the issues. And then the pendulum sort of swung and people only talked about the issues and didn't talk about the stuff that was positive. And it was all both there the whole time.
So I think that it's always very difficult to talk about this stuff in a nuanced way because I think to some degree before 2016, everyone was sort of too rosy about the internet overall and didn't talk enough about the issues. And then the pendulum sort of swung and people only talked about the issues and didn't talk about the stuff that was positive. And it was all both there the whole time.
So when I talk about this, I don't mean to come across as simplistic or...
So when I talk about this, I don't mean to come across as simplistic or...
So when I talk about this, I don't mean to come across as simplistic or...
Or that there weren't issues with the internet or things like that. I mean, obviously every year, whether it's politics or other things, there are always things that you look back at and you're like, hey, yeah, if I were playing this perfectly, I would have done these things differently.
Or that there weren't issues with the internet or things like that. I mean, obviously every year, whether it's politics or other things, there are always things that you look back at and you're like, hey, yeah, if I were playing this perfectly, I would have done these things differently.
Or that there weren't issues with the internet or things like that. I mean, obviously every year, whether it's politics or other things, there are always things that you look back at and you're like, hey, yeah, if I were playing this perfectly, I would have done these things differently.
But I do think it's the case that I didn't really know how to react to something as big of a shift in the world as what happened. And it took me a while to find my footing. And I do think that it's tricky when you're caught up in these kind of big debates. you're not kind of experienced or sophisticated in engaging with that, I think you can make some big missteps.
But I do think it's the case that I didn't really know how to react to something as big of a shift in the world as what happened. And it took me a while to find my footing. And I do think that it's tricky when you're caught up in these kind of big debates. you're not kind of experienced or sophisticated in engaging with that, I think you can make some big missteps.
But I do think it's the case that I didn't really know how to react to something as big of a shift in the world as what happened. And it took me a while to find my footing. And I do think that it's tricky when you're caught up in these kind of big debates. you're not kind of experienced or sophisticated in engaging with that, I think you can make some big missteps.
And I do think that some of the things that we were accused of over time, it just, you know, I think it's just been pretty clear at this point, you know, now that all the investigations have been done that, like, they... they weren't true.
And I do think that some of the things that we were accused of over time, it just, you know, I think it's just been pretty clear at this point, you know, now that all the investigations have been done that, like, they... they weren't true.
And I do think that some of the things that we were accused of over time, it just, you know, I think it's just been pretty clear at this point, you know, now that all the investigations have been done that, like, they... they weren't true.
I think Cambridge Analytica is a good example of something that it's like, people thought that like all this data had been taken and that it had been used in this campaign. And it turns out it wasn't like it wasn't like in the, yeah. So it's like all the stuff. Okay. And like the data wasn't even, you know,
I think Cambridge Analytica is a good example of something that it's like, people thought that like all this data had been taken and that it had been used in this campaign. And it turns out it wasn't like it wasn't like in the, yeah. So it's like all the stuff. Okay. And like the data wasn't even, you know,
I think Cambridge Analytica is a good example of something that it's like, people thought that like all this data had been taken and that it had been used in this campaign. And it turns out it wasn't like it wasn't like in the, yeah. So it's like all the stuff. Okay. And like the data wasn't even, you know,
accessible to the to the developer and we'd fix the issue like five years ago so in the moment it was like really hard for us to to kind of have a rational discussion about that and i mean part of the challenge is that you know for the general population i think a lot of people they read the initial headlines and they don't necessarily read the um
accessible to the to the developer and we'd fix the issue like five years ago so in the moment it was like really hard for us to to kind of have a rational discussion about that and i mean part of the challenge is that you know for the general population i think a lot of people they read the initial headlines and they don't necessarily read the um
accessible to the to the developer and we'd fix the issue like five years ago so in the moment it was like really hard for us to to kind of have a rational discussion about that and i mean part of the challenge is that you know for the general population i think a lot of people they read the initial headlines and they don't necessarily read the um
And frankly, a lot of the media I don't think was as loud to write about when all the investigations concluded that said that a lot of the initial allegations were just completely wrong. So I think that's a real thing. So okay, so you take these hits. I didn't really know how to kind of push back on that.
And frankly, a lot of the media I don't think was as loud to write about when all the investigations concluded that said that a lot of the initial allegations were just completely wrong. So I think that's a real thing. So okay, so you take these hits. I didn't really know how to kind of push back on that.
And frankly, a lot of the media I don't think was as loud to write about when all the investigations concluded that said that a lot of the initial allegations were just completely wrong. So I think that's a real thing. So okay, so you take these hits. I didn't really know how to kind of push back on that.
And maybe some of it you can't, but I like to think that I think we could have played some of this stuff differently. And I do think it was certainly the case that when you take responsibility for things that are not your...
And maybe some of it you can't, but I like to think that I think we could have played some of this stuff differently. And I do think it was certainly the case that when you take responsibility for things that are not your...
And maybe some of it you can't, but I like to think that I think we could have played some of this stuff differently. And I do think it was certainly the case that when you take responsibility for things that are not your...
fault you become sort of a weak target for people who are looking to blame other things and find a target for them it's sort of like this is a different part of of it's it's somewhat related to this but when you think about like like litigation strategy for the company
fault you become sort of a weak target for people who are looking to blame other things and find a target for them it's sort of like this is a different part of of it's it's somewhat related to this but when you think about like like litigation strategy for the company
fault you become sort of a weak target for people who are looking to blame other things and find a target for them it's sort of like this is a different part of of it's it's somewhat related to this but when you think about like like litigation strategy for the company
One of the reasons why I hate settling lawsuits is that it basically sends a signal to people that, hey, this is a company that settles lawsuits, so maybe we can sue them and they'll settle lawsuits.
One of the reasons why I hate settling lawsuits is that it basically sends a signal to people that, hey, this is a company that settles lawsuits, so maybe we can sue them and they'll settle lawsuits.
One of the reasons why I hate settling lawsuits is that it basically sends a signal to people that, hey, this is a company that settles lawsuits, so maybe we can sue them and they'll settle lawsuits.
Yeah, almost 10.
Yeah, almost 10.
Yeah, almost 10.
No, I think the right kind of...
No, I think the right kind of...
No, I think the right kind of...
way to approach this is when you believe in something you fight really hard for it and i think this is a repeat game this isn't like this it's not like there's a single issue and we're going to be around for a long time and i think it's it's really important that people know that we're a company that has conviction and that we we believe in what we're doing and we're going to back that up and defend ourselves and i think that that kind of sets the right tone now
way to approach this is when you believe in something you fight really hard for it and i think this is a repeat game this isn't like this it's not like there's a single issue and we're going to be around for a long time and i think it's it's really important that people know that we're a company that has conviction and that we we believe in what we're doing and we're going to back that up and defend ourselves and i think that that kind of sets the right tone now
way to approach this is when you believe in something you fight really hard for it and i think this is a repeat game this isn't like this it's not like there's a single issue and we're going to be around for a long time and i think it's it's really important that people know that we're a company that has conviction and that we we believe in what we're doing and we're going to back that up and defend ourselves and i think that that kind of sets the right tone now
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think over the next 10 years, I think we're sort of digging ourselves back to neutral on this. But I like to think that if we hadn't had a lot of these issues, we would have made progress over the last 10 years, too. So I sort of give it this timeframe. Maybe 20 years is too long. Maybe it's 15. But it's hard to know with politics.
I think over the next 10 years, I think we're sort of digging ourselves back to neutral on this. But I like to think that if we hadn't had a lot of these issues, we would have made progress over the last 10 years, too. So I sort of give it this timeframe. Maybe 20 years is too long. Maybe it's 15. But it's hard to know with politics.
I think over the next 10 years, I think we're sort of digging ourselves back to neutral on this. But I like to think that if we hadn't had a lot of these issues, we would have made progress over the last 10 years, too. So I sort of give it this timeframe. Maybe 20 years is too long. Maybe it's 15. But it's hard to know with politics.
that i think is the next big fight and and on that you know i think a lot of the data on this i i think is just not where the narrative is the narrative yeah i think the narrative is a lot of people sort of take it as if it's like an assumed thing that there's some link and like i think the majority of the of the high quality research that's out there suggests that there's no causal connection like a kind of a broad scale between between these things so
that i think is the next big fight and and on that you know i think a lot of the data on this i i think is just not where the narrative is the narrative yeah i think the narrative is a lot of people sort of take it as if it's like an assumed thing that there's some link and like i think the majority of the of the high quality research that's out there suggests that there's no causal connection like a kind of a broad scale between between these things so
that i think is the next big fight and and on that you know i think a lot of the data on this i i think is just not where the narrative is the narrative yeah i think the narrative is a lot of people sort of take it as if it's like an assumed thing that there's some link and like i think the majority of the of the high quality research that's out there suggests that there's no causal connection like a kind of a broad scale between between these things so
no look i mean i think that that's different from saying like in any given issue like was is someone bullied should we try to stop bullying yeah of course but yeah overall i think that this is this is one where there are a bunch of these cases i think that there will be a lot of litigation around them and it's one where we're trying to make sure that the academic research that shows something that i think is you know it um
no look i mean i think that that's different from saying like in any given issue like was is someone bullied should we try to stop bullying yeah of course but yeah overall i think that this is this is one where there are a bunch of these cases i think that there will be a lot of litigation around them and it's one where we're trying to make sure that the academic research that shows something that i think is you know it um
no look i mean i think that that's different from saying like in any given issue like was is someone bullied should we try to stop bullying yeah of course but yeah overall i think that this is this is one where there are a bunch of these cases i think that there will be a lot of litigation around them and it's one where we're trying to make sure that the academic research that shows something that i think is you know it um
To me, it sort of foots more with what I've seen of how the platforms operate, but it's counter to what a lot of people think. And I think that that's going to be a reckoning that we'll have to have is basically when as the kind of the majority of the high quality academic research gets shown is like, okay, can people accept this?
To me, it sort of foots more with what I've seen of how the platforms operate, but it's counter to what a lot of people think. And I think that that's going to be a reckoning that we'll have to have is basically when as the kind of the majority of the high quality academic research gets shown is like, okay, can people accept this?
To me, it sort of foots more with what I've seen of how the platforms operate, but it's counter to what a lot of people think. And I think that that's going to be a reckoning that we'll have to have is basically when as the kind of the majority of the high quality academic research gets shown is like, okay, can people accept this?
I think a lot of it goes all the way back to our relationship with mobile platforms and all that. We have lived through one major platform transition already because we started on web, not on mobile. Mobile phones and smartphones kind of got started around the same time. as Facebook and kind of early social media was getting started.
I think a lot of it goes all the way back to our relationship with mobile platforms and all that. We have lived through one major platform transition already because we started on web, not on mobile. Mobile phones and smartphones kind of got started around the same time. as Facebook and kind of early social media was getting started.
I think a lot of it goes all the way back to our relationship with mobile platforms and all that. We have lived through one major platform transition already because we started on web, not on mobile. Mobile phones and smartphones kind of got started around the same time. as Facebook and kind of early social media was getting started.
And I think that's going to be a really important set of debates over the next
And I think that's going to be a really important set of debates over the next
And I think that's going to be a really important set of debates over the next
Yeah. And I think this is an interesting part of the balance is, um, you can play a role in trying to make something better even if the thing wasn't caused by you in the first place there's no doubt that being a parent is really hard and there's a big question of in this internet age where we have phones what are the right tools that parents need in order to be able to
Yeah. And I think this is an interesting part of the balance is, um, you can play a role in trying to make something better even if the thing wasn't caused by you in the first place there's no doubt that being a parent is really hard and there's a big question of in this internet age where we have phones what are the right tools that parents need in order to be able to
Yeah. And I think this is an interesting part of the balance is, um, you can play a role in trying to make something better even if the thing wasn't caused by you in the first place there's no doubt that being a parent is really hard and there's a big question of in this internet age where we have phones what are the right tools that parents need in order to be able to
raise their kids and like i think that we can play a role in giving people controls over parental controls over the apps i think the parental controls are also really important because parents have different ways that they want to raise their kids or just like schooling and education people have like very significantly different local preferences for how they want to raise their kids i don't think that most people want some internet company setting all the rules for this either so
raise their kids and like i think that we can play a role in giving people controls over parental controls over the apps i think the parental controls are also really important because parents have different ways that they want to raise their kids or just like schooling and education people have like very significantly different local preferences for how they want to raise their kids i don't think that most people want some internet company setting all the rules for this either so
raise their kids and like i think that we can play a role in giving people controls over parental controls over the apps i think the parental controls are also really important because parents have different ways that they want to raise their kids or just like schooling and education people have like very significantly different local preferences for how they want to raise their kids i don't think that most people want some internet company setting all the rules for this either so
Obviously, when there are laws passed, we'll kind of follow the government's direction and the laws on that. But I actually think the right approach for us is to primarily kind of align with parents to give them the tools that they want to be able to raise their kids in the way that they want. And some people are going to think that more technology use is good.
Obviously, when there are laws passed, we'll kind of follow the government's direction and the laws on that. But I actually think the right approach for us is to primarily kind of align with parents to give them the tools that they want to be able to raise their kids in the way that they want. And some people are going to think that more technology use is good.
Obviously, when there are laws passed, we'll kind of follow the government's direction and the laws on that. But I actually think the right approach for us is to primarily kind of align with parents to give them the tools that they want to be able to raise their kids in the way that they want. And some people are going to think that more technology use is good.
That's sort of how my parents raised me growing up. I think it worked pretty well. Some people are going to want to limit it more, and we want to give them the tools to be able to do that. But I don't think that this is primarily or only a social media thing. Even the parts of this that are technology... age verification. I think phones, like the phone platforms have a huge part of this.
That's sort of how my parents raised me growing up. I think it worked pretty well. Some people are going to want to limit it more, and we want to give them the tools to be able to do that. But I don't think that this is primarily or only a social media thing. Even the parts of this that are technology... age verification. I think phones, like the phone platforms have a huge part of this.
That's sort of how my parents raised me growing up. I think it worked pretty well. Some people are going to want to limit it more, and we want to give them the tools to be able to do that. But I don't think that this is primarily or only a social media thing. Even the parts of this that are technology... age verification. I think phones, like the phone platforms have a huge part of this.
I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, there's this big question of how do you do age verification? And I mean, I can tell you what the easiest way is, which is like, all right, like every time you go do a payment on your phone, I mean, there already is child, you know, basically like child age verification. So I don't really understand.
I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, there's this big question of how do you do age verification? And I mean, I can tell you what the easiest way is, which is like, all right, like every time you go do a payment on your phone, I mean, there already is child, you know, basically like child age verification. So I don't really understand.
I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, there's this big question of how do you do age verification? And I mean, I can tell you what the easiest way is, which is like, all right, like every time you go do a payment on your phone, I mean, there already is child, you know, basically like child age verification. So I don't really understand.
Well, I guess I understand, but I think it's, it's, it's not very, you know, excusable from my perspective, why Apple and, and, and I guess to some extent, Google don't want to just extend the age verification that they already have on their phones to be a parental control for parents to basically be able to say, you know, what apps can my kids use?
Well, I guess I understand, but I think it's, it's, it's not very, you know, excusable from my perspective, why Apple and, and, and I guess to some extent, Google don't want to just extend the age verification that they already have on their phones to be a parental control for parents to basically be able to say, you know, what apps can my kids use?
Well, I guess I understand, but I think it's, it's, it's not very, you know, excusable from my perspective, why Apple and, and, and I guess to some extent, Google don't want to just extend the age verification that they already have on their phones to be a parental control for parents to basically be able to say, you know, what apps can my kids use?
I think they don't want to take responsibility.
I think they don't want to take responsibility.
I think they don't want to take responsibility.
Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to do our part and we're going to build the tools that we can for parents and for teens. But at the end of the day, and look, I'm not saying it's all the phone's fault either. Although I would say that like the ability to get push notifications and get kind of distracted is, from my perspective, seems like a much greater contributor to mental health issues than parents.
Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to do our part and we're going to build the tools that we can for parents and for teens. But at the end of the day, and look, I'm not saying it's all the phone's fault either. Although I would say that like the ability to get push notifications and get kind of distracted is, from my perspective, seems like a much greater contributor to mental health issues than parents.
Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to do our part and we're going to build the tools that we can for parents and for teens. But at the end of the day, and look, I'm not saying it's all the phone's fault either. Although I would say that like the ability to get push notifications and get kind of distracted is, from my perspective, seems like a much greater contributor to mental health issues than parents.
than kind of a lot of the specific apps. But there are things that I think everyone should kind of try to improve and work on. But yeah, I mean, that's sort of my view on all that.
than kind of a lot of the specific apps. But there are things that I think everyone should kind of try to improve and work on. But yeah, I mean, that's sort of my view on all that.
than kind of a lot of the specific apps. But there are things that I think everyone should kind of try to improve and work on. But yeah, I mean, that's sort of my view on all that.
So it didn't really get to play any role in that platform transition, but going through it where we weren't born on mobile, we kind of had this awareness that, okay, web was a thing. Mobile is a thing. It is different. There are strengths and weaknesses of it.
So it didn't really get to play any role in that platform transition, but going through it where we weren't born on mobile, we kind of had this awareness that, okay, web was a thing. Mobile is a thing. It is different. There are strengths and weaknesses of it.
So it didn't really get to play any role in that platform transition, but going through it where we weren't born on mobile, we kind of had this awareness that, okay, web was a thing. Mobile is a thing. It is different. There are strengths and weaknesses of it.
Yeah. I don't know. It's a little hard for me to parse the European politics. I have a hard time enough with American politics. I mean, I'm American. But in theory, my understanding of the way this is supposed to work is they kind of passed... GDPR regulation.
Yeah. I don't know. It's a little hard for me to parse the European politics. I have a hard time enough with American politics. I mean, I'm American. But in theory, my understanding of the way this is supposed to work is they kind of passed... GDPR regulation.
Yeah. I don't know. It's a little hard for me to parse the European politics. I have a hard time enough with American politics. I mean, I'm American. But in theory, my understanding of the way this is supposed to work is they kind of passed... GDPR regulation.
And you're supposed to have this idea of sort of a one-stop shop, like home regulator, who can basically, on behalf of the whole EU, interpret and enforce the rules. We have our European headquarters, and we work with that regulator. And I think they're like, okay, they're pretty tough on us and pretty firm.
And you're supposed to have this idea of sort of a one-stop shop, like home regulator, who can basically, on behalf of the whole EU, interpret and enforce the rules. We have our European headquarters, and we work with that regulator. And I think they're like, okay, they're pretty tough on us and pretty firm.
And you're supposed to have this idea of sort of a one-stop shop, like home regulator, who can basically, on behalf of the whole EU, interpret and enforce the rules. We have our European headquarters, and we work with that regulator. And I think they're like, okay, they're pretty tough on us and pretty firm.
But at least when you're working with one regulator, you can kind of understand how are they thinking about things and you can make progress. And the thing that I think has been tricky is there have been, from my perspective, a little bit of a backslide where now you get all these other DPAs across the continent sort of also intervening and trying to do things.
But at least when you're working with one regulator, you can kind of understand how are they thinking about things and you can make progress. And the thing that I think has been tricky is there have been, from my perspective, a little bit of a backslide where now you get all these other DPAs across the continent sort of also intervening and trying to do things.
But at least when you're working with one regulator, you can kind of understand how are they thinking about things and you can make progress. And the thing that I think has been tricky is there have been, from my perspective, a little bit of a backslide where now you get all these other DPAs across the continent sort of also intervening and trying to do things.
And it just seems like more of an kind of internal EU political thing, which is like, okay, do they want to have this one-stop shop and have clarity for companies so companies can kind of like can execute or, or do they just want it to be this kind of very complicated regulatory system?
And it just seems like more of an kind of internal EU political thing, which is like, okay, do they want to have this one-stop shop and have clarity for companies so companies can kind of like can execute or, or do they just want it to be this kind of very complicated regulatory system?
And it just seems like more of an kind of internal EU political thing, which is like, okay, do they want to have this one-stop shop and have clarity for companies so companies can kind of like can execute or, or do they just want it to be this kind of very complicated regulatory system?
And I look, I think that's for them to sort out, but I know there's no doubt that when you have like dozens of different regulators that can ask you kind of the same questions about different things, it makes it a much more difficult environment to build things. Do you, do you understand that's just us? I think that that's all the companies.
And I look, I think that's for them to sort out, but I know there's no doubt that when you have like dozens of different regulators that can ask you kind of the same questions about different things, it makes it a much more difficult environment to build things. Do you, do you understand that's just us? I think that that's all the companies.
And I look, I think that's for them to sort out, but I know there's no doubt that when you have like dozens of different regulators that can ask you kind of the same questions about different things, it makes it a much more difficult environment to build things. Do you, do you understand that's just us? I think that that's all the companies.
Yeah. I mean, I think that in any new medium in technology, there's the concepts around fair use and where are the boundaries between what you have control over. When you put something out in the world, to what degree do you still get to control it and own it and license it? I think that all these things are basically going to need to get you know, relitigated and rediscussed in the AI era.
Yeah. I mean, I think that in any new medium in technology, there's the concepts around fair use and where are the boundaries between what you have control over. When you put something out in the world, to what degree do you still get to control it and own it and license it? I think that all these things are basically going to need to get you know, relitigated and rediscussed in the AI era.
Yeah. I mean, I think that in any new medium in technology, there's the concepts around fair use and where are the boundaries between what you have control over. When you put something out in the world, to what degree do you still get to control it and own it and license it? I think that all these things are basically going to need to get you know, relitigated and rediscussed in the AI era.
There's this continuum of computing where now you have a mobile device that you can take with you all the time, and that's amazing, but it's small. kind of pulls you away from other interactions. Those things are not great, but there was sort of this recognition that just like there was the transition from computers to mobile, mobile was not going to be the end of the line.
There's this continuum of computing where now you have a mobile device that you can take with you all the time, and that's amazing, but it's small. kind of pulls you away from other interactions. Those things are not great, but there was sort of this recognition that just like there was the transition from computers to mobile, mobile was not going to be the end of the line.
There's this continuum of computing where now you have a mobile device that you can take with you all the time, and that's amazing, but it's small. kind of pulls you away from other interactions. Those things are not great, but there was sort of this recognition that just like there was the transition from computers to mobile, mobile was not going to be the end of the line.
So, I mean, I get it. I think that these are important questions. I think this is not like a completely novel thing to AI in the grand scheme of things. I think it was, you know, a lot of them, there were questions about it with the internet overall too, and with different technologies over time. But I think getting to clarity on that is going to be important.
So, I mean, I get it. I think that these are important questions. I think this is not like a completely novel thing to AI in the grand scheme of things. I think it was, you know, a lot of them, there were questions about it with the internet overall too, and with different technologies over time. But I think getting to clarity on that is going to be important.
So, I mean, I get it. I think that these are important questions. I think this is not like a completely novel thing to AI in the grand scheme of things. I think it was, you know, a lot of them, there were questions about it with the internet overall too, and with different technologies over time. But I think getting to clarity on that is going to be important.
So that way, the things that society wants people to build, they can go build.
So that way, the things that society wants people to build, they can go build.
So that way, the things that society wants people to build, they can go build.
I mean, I think it starts with having some framework of like, okay, what's the process going to be for working through that?
I mean, I think it starts with having some framework of like, okay, what's the process going to be for working through that?
I mean, I think it starts with having some framework of like, okay, what's the process going to be for working through that?
I think that there's a lot of different possibilities for how stuff goes in the future. Now, I do think that there's this issue, which is a lot of like, well, psychologically, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I think individual creators or publishers tend to overestimate the value of their specific content. So it's like, okay, maybe in the grand scheme of this.
I think that there's a lot of different possibilities for how stuff goes in the future. Now, I do think that there's this issue, which is a lot of like, well, psychologically, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I think individual creators or publishers tend to overestimate the value of their specific content. So it's like, okay, maybe in the grand scheme of this.
I think that there's a lot of different possibilities for how stuff goes in the future. Now, I do think that there's this issue, which is a lot of like, well, psychologically, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. I think individual creators or publishers tend to overestimate the value of their specific content. So it's like, okay, maybe in the grand scheme of this.
So we have this set of challenges with news publishers around the world, which is like, okay, a lot of folks are constantly kind of asking, to be paid for the content. And on the other hand, we have our community, which is asking us to show less news because it makes them feel bad, right? And I mean, we talked about that.
So we have this set of challenges with news publishers around the world, which is like, okay, a lot of folks are constantly kind of asking, to be paid for the content. And on the other hand, we have our community, which is asking us to show less news because it makes them feel bad, right? And I mean, we talked about that.
So we have this set of challenges with news publishers around the world, which is like, okay, a lot of folks are constantly kind of asking, to be paid for the content. And on the other hand, we have our community, which is asking us to show less news because it makes them feel bad, right? And I mean, we talked about that.
So it's like, there's this issue, which is, okay, it's like, actually, we're showing some amount of the news that we're showing because we think it's socially important against what our community wants. Like if we were actually just following what our community wants, we'd show even less than we're showing. And you see that in the data that people just don't like to engage with this stuff.
So it's like, there's this issue, which is, okay, it's like, actually, we're showing some amount of the news that we're showing because we think it's socially important against what our community wants. Like if we were actually just following what our community wants, we'd show even less than we're showing. And you see that in the data that people just don't like to engage with this stuff.
So it's like, there's this issue, which is, okay, it's like, actually, we're showing some amount of the news that we're showing because we think it's socially important against what our community wants. Like if we were actually just following what our community wants, we'd show even less than we're showing. And you see that in the data that people just don't like to engage with this stuff.
And we've had these issues where sometimes we, Like publishers say, okay, if you're not going to pay us, then pull our content down. And it's just like, yeah, sure. Fine. Pull, pull your content down. I mean, that sucks. I'd rather people be able to share it. But to some degree, some of these questions have to get tested by their negotiations and they have to get tested by people walking. Yeah.
And we've had these issues where sometimes we, Like publishers say, okay, if you're not going to pay us, then pull our content down. And it's just like, yeah, sure. Fine. Pull, pull your content down. I mean, that sucks. I'd rather people be able to share it. But to some degree, some of these questions have to get tested by their negotiations and they have to get tested by people walking. Yeah.
And we've had these issues where sometimes we, Like publishers say, okay, if you're not going to pay us, then pull our content down. And it's just like, yeah, sure. Fine. Pull, pull your content down. I mean, that sucks. I'd rather people be able to share it. But to some degree, some of these questions have to get tested by their negotiations and they have to get tested by people walking. Yeah.
And then at the end, once people walk, you figure out where the value really is. If it really is the case that news was a big thing that the community wanted, then, I mean, look, we're a big company. We could probably, you know, we pay for content when it's valuable to people. We're just not going to pay for content when it's not valuable to people.
And then at the end, once people walk, you figure out where the value really is. If it really is the case that news was a big thing that the community wanted, then, I mean, look, we're a big company. We could probably, you know, we pay for content when it's valuable to people. We're just not going to pay for content when it's not valuable to people.
And then at the end, once people walk, you figure out where the value really is. If it really is the case that news was a big thing that the community wanted, then, I mean, look, we're a big company. We could probably, you know, we pay for content when it's valuable to people. We're just not going to pay for content when it's not valuable to people.
i think that you'll probably see a similar dynamic with ai which is my guess is that there are going to be certain partnerships that get made when content is really important and valuable and i'd guess that there's probably a lot of people who kind of have a concern about like the feel of it like you're saying but then when push comes to shove if they demanded that we take that we don't use their content then we just wouldn't use their content and it's not like you know that's going to change the outcome of the stuff that much
i think that you'll probably see a similar dynamic with ai which is my guess is that there are going to be certain partnerships that get made when content is really important and valuable and i'd guess that there's probably a lot of people who kind of have a concern about like the feel of it like you're saying but then when push comes to shove if they demanded that we take that we don't use their content then we just wouldn't use their content and it's not like you know that's going to change the outcome of the stuff that much
i think that you'll probably see a similar dynamic with ai which is my guess is that there are going to be certain partnerships that get made when content is really important and valuable and i'd guess that there's probably a lot of people who kind of have a concern about like the feel of it like you're saying but then when push comes to shove if they demanded that we take that we don't use their content then we just wouldn't use their content and it's not like you know that's going to change the outcome of the stuff that much
I think that's going to be another platform too, and you're going to have a lot of these questions as well. I mean, I think the interesting thing about holograms and augmented reality is it's going to be this intermingling of the physical and digital much more than we've had in other platforms.
I think that's going to be another platform too, and you're going to have a lot of these questions as well. I mean, I think the interesting thing about holograms and augmented reality is it's going to be this intermingling of the physical and digital much more than we've had in other platforms.
I think that's going to be another platform too, and you're going to have a lot of these questions as well. I mean, I think the interesting thing about holograms and augmented reality is it's going to be this intermingling of the physical and digital much more than we've had in other platforms.
Where on your phone, it's like, okay, yeah, we live a primarily physical world, but then you have this small window into this digital world. And I think we're going to basically have this world in the future that is...
Where on your phone, it's like, okay, yeah, we live a primarily physical world, but then you have this small window into this digital world. And I think we're going to basically have this world in the future that is...
Where on your phone, it's like, okay, yeah, we live a primarily physical world, but then you have this small window into this digital world. And I think we're going to basically have this world in the future that is...
So as soon as we started becoming like a more, I don't know, I guess I'd say stable company, like once we found our footing on mobile and
So as soon as we started becoming like a more, I don't know, I guess I'd say stable company, like once we found our footing on mobile and
So as soon as we started becoming like a more, I don't know, I guess I'd say stable company, like once we found our footing on mobile and
increasingly you know call it half physical half digital or i don't know 60 physical 40 digital and it's like going to be blended together and i think that there are going to be a lot of interesting governance questions around that right in terms of is kind of all of the digital stuff that's overlaid physically going to fit within sort of a physical kind of national
increasingly you know call it half physical half digital or i don't know 60 physical 40 digital and it's like going to be blended together and i think that there are going to be a lot of interesting governance questions around that right in terms of is kind of all of the digital stuff that's overlaid physically going to fit within sort of a physical kind of national
increasingly you know call it half physical half digital or i don't know 60 physical 40 digital and it's like going to be blended together and i think that there are going to be a lot of interesting governance questions around that right in terms of is kind of all of the digital stuff that's overlaid physically going to fit within sort of a physical kind of national
regulation perspective or is it sort of is it actually coming from a different world or something you know and i think these will all be very interesting questions that we will have a perspective i'm sure we're not going to be right about every single thing i think like the world will kind of need to sort out where it wants to be different countries will have different values and take somewhat different approaches on things and i think that that's it's part of the interesting process of this the tapestry of how it all gets built is like you need to work through so that it ends up being positive for
regulation perspective or is it sort of is it actually coming from a different world or something you know and i think these will all be very interesting questions that we will have a perspective i'm sure we're not going to be right about every single thing i think like the world will kind of need to sort out where it wants to be different countries will have different values and take somewhat different approaches on things and i think that that's it's part of the interesting process of this the tapestry of how it all gets built is like you need to work through so that it ends up being positive for
regulation perspective or is it sort of is it actually coming from a different world or something you know and i think these will all be very interesting questions that we will have a perspective i'm sure we're not going to be right about every single thing i think like the world will kind of need to sort out where it wants to be different countries will have different values and take somewhat different approaches on things and i think that that's it's part of the interesting process of this the tapestry of how it all gets built is like you need to work through so that it ends up being positive for
you know, as many of the possible stakeholders as possible.
you know, as many of the possible stakeholders as possible.
you know, as many of the possible stakeholders as possible.
A lot to come.
A lot to come.
A lot to come.
we weren't like clearly going to go out of business or something like that i was like okay let's start planting some seeds for what we think could be the future right it's like mobile is already kind of getting defined you know by 2012 2014-ish it was generally too late to to really shape that platform in a meaningful way i mean we had some experiments i mean they didn't succeed or go anywhere
we weren't like clearly going to go out of business or something like that i was like okay let's start planting some seeds for what we think could be the future right it's like mobile is already kind of getting defined you know by 2012 2014-ish it was generally too late to to really shape that platform in a meaningful way i mean we had some experiments i mean they didn't succeed or go anywhere
we weren't like clearly going to go out of business or something like that i was like okay let's start planting some seeds for what we think could be the future right it's like mobile is already kind of getting defined you know by 2012 2014-ish it was generally too late to to really shape that platform in a meaningful way i mean we had some experiments i mean they didn't succeed or go anywhere
So pretty quickly I was like, okay, we should focus on the future because just like there's the shift from desktop to mobile, new things are going to be possible in the future. So what is that? I think the kind of simplest version of it is basically what you started seeing with Orion, right? It's like the vision is a normal pair of glasses. that can do two really fundamental things.
So pretty quickly I was like, okay, we should focus on the future because just like there's the shift from desktop to mobile, new things are going to be possible in the future. So what is that? I think the kind of simplest version of it is basically what you started seeing with Orion, right? It's like the vision is a normal pair of glasses. that can do two really fundamental things.
So pretty quickly I was like, okay, we should focus on the future because just like there's the shift from desktop to mobile, new things are going to be possible in the future. So what is that? I think the kind of simplest version of it is basically what you started seeing with Orion, right? It's like the vision is a normal pair of glasses. that can do two really fundamental things.
One is put holograms in the world to deliver this realistic sense of presence, like you were there with another person or in another place, or maybe you're physically with a person, but just like we did, you can pull up a virtual pong game or whatever. You can work on things together. You can sit at a coffee shop, pull up your whole workstation of different monitors.
One is put holograms in the world to deliver this realistic sense of presence, like you were there with another person or in another place, or maybe you're physically with a person, but just like we did, you can pull up a virtual pong game or whatever. You can work on things together. You can sit at a coffee shop, pull up your whole workstation of different monitors.
One is put holograms in the world to deliver this realistic sense of presence, like you were there with another person or in another place, or maybe you're physically with a person, but just like we did, you can pull up a virtual pong game or whatever. You can work on things together. You can sit at a coffee shop, pull up your whole workstation of different monitors.
You can be on a flight or in the backseat of a car and pull up a full-screen movie theater and like, okay, all these things. Great computing, full sense of presence, like you're there with people no matter where they are. Thing two is it's the ideal device for AI. And the reason for that is because glasses are sort of uniquely positioned
You can be on a flight or in the backseat of a car and pull up a full-screen movie theater and like, okay, all these things. Great computing, full sense of presence, like you're there with people no matter where they are. Thing two is it's the ideal device for AI. And the reason for that is because glasses are sort of uniquely positioned
You can be on a flight or in the backseat of a car and pull up a full-screen movie theater and like, okay, all these things. Great computing, full sense of presence, like you're there with people no matter where they are. Thing two is it's the ideal device for AI. And the reason for that is because glasses are sort of uniquely positioned
For you to be able to let them see what you see and hear what you hear and give you very subtle feedback back to you where they can speak in your ear or they can have silent input that kind of shows up on the glasses that other people can't see and doesn't take you away from the world around you. And I think that that is all going to be really profound.
For you to be able to let them see what you see and hear what you hear and give you very subtle feedback back to you where they can speak in your ear or they can have silent input that kind of shows up on the glasses that other people can't see and doesn't take you away from the world around you. And I think that that is all going to be really profound.
For you to be able to let them see what you see and hear what you hear and give you very subtle feedback back to you where they can speak in your ear or they can have silent input that kind of shows up on the glasses that other people can't see and doesn't take you away from the world around you. And I think that that is all going to be really profound.
When we got started with this, I had thought that kind of the hologram part of this was going to be possible before AI. So it's sort of an interesting twist of fate that the AI part is actually possible before the holograms are really able to be mass produced at kind of an affordable price. But that was sort of the vision. I think that it's pretty easy to wrap your head around
When we got started with this, I had thought that kind of the hologram part of this was going to be possible before AI. So it's sort of an interesting twist of fate that the AI part is actually possible before the holograms are really able to be mass produced at kind of an affordable price. But that was sort of the vision. I think that it's pretty easy to wrap your head around
When we got started with this, I had thought that kind of the hologram part of this was going to be possible before AI. So it's sort of an interesting twist of fate that the AI part is actually possible before the holograms are really able to be mass produced at kind of an affordable price. But that was sort of the vision. I think that it's pretty easy to wrap your head around
And there's already a billion to two billion people who wear glasses on a daily basis. Just like everyone who didn't have smartphones were kind of the first people to upgrade to smartphones. I think everyone who has glasses is pretty quickly going to upgrade to smart glasses over the next decade. And then I think it's going to start being really valuable.
And there's already a billion to two billion people who wear glasses on a daily basis. Just like everyone who didn't have smartphones were kind of the first people to upgrade to smartphones. I think everyone who has glasses is pretty quickly going to upgrade to smart glasses over the next decade. And then I think it's going to start being really valuable.
And there's already a billion to two billion people who wear glasses on a daily basis. Just like everyone who didn't have smartphones were kind of the first people to upgrade to smartphones. I think everyone who has glasses is pretty quickly going to upgrade to smart glasses over the next decade. And then I think it's going to start being really valuable.
And a lot of other people who aren't wearing glasses today are going to end up wearing them too. That's kind of the simple version. And then I think as we've developed this out, there are all these sort of more nuanced directions that have emerged too.
And a lot of other people who aren't wearing glasses today are going to end up wearing them too. That's kind of the simple version. And then I think as we've developed this out, there are all these sort of more nuanced directions that have emerged too.
And a lot of other people who aren't wearing glasses today are going to end up wearing them too. That's kind of the simple version. And then I think as we've developed this out, there are all these sort of more nuanced directions that have emerged too.
So we've started, you know, while that was kind of the full version of what we wanted to build, there were all these things that we said, okay, well, maybe it's really hard to build normal looking glasses that can do holograms at an affordable price point. So what parts of that can we take on? And that's where we did the partnership with SLR Luxottica. So it's like, okay, before you have a display,
So we've started, you know, while that was kind of the full version of what we wanted to build, there were all these things that we said, okay, well, maybe it's really hard to build normal looking glasses that can do holograms at an affordable price point. So what parts of that can we take on? And that's where we did the partnership with SLR Luxottica. So it's like, okay, before you have a display,
So we've started, you know, while that was kind of the full version of what we wanted to build, there were all these things that we said, okay, well, maybe it's really hard to build normal looking glasses that can do holograms at an affordable price point. So what parts of that can we take on? And that's where we did the partnership with SLR Luxottica. So it's like, okay, before you have a display,
You can get normal looking glasses that can have a camera, that can have a microphone, great audio, can capture content. You can stream video at this point, but the most important feature at this point is the ability to access meta AI and just kind of have kind of a full AI there, multimodal because it has camera. And I mean, that product is starting at $300.
You can get normal looking glasses that can have a camera, that can have a microphone, great audio, can capture content. You can stream video at this point, but the most important feature at this point is the ability to access meta AI and just kind of have kind of a full AI there, multimodal because it has camera. And I mean, that product is starting at $300.
You can get normal looking glasses that can have a camera, that can have a microphone, great audio, can capture content. You can stream video at this point, but the most important feature at this point is the ability to access meta AI and just kind of have kind of a full AI there, multimodal because it has camera. And I mean, that product is starting at $300.
And, you know, initially I kind of thought, hey, this is sort of on the technology path to building full holographic glasses. At this point, I actually just think both are going to exist long-term, right?
And, you know, initially I kind of thought, hey, this is sort of on the technology path to building full holographic glasses. At this point, I actually just think both are going to exist long-term, right?
And, you know, initially I kind of thought, hey, this is sort of on the technology path to building full holographic glasses. At this point, I actually just think both are going to exist long-term, right?
I think that there are going to be people who want the full holographic glasses, and I think that there are going to be people who prefer kind of the superior form factor or lower price of a device where they are primarily optimizing for getting AI. I also think there's going to be a range of things in between, right? So there's the full kind of field of view that you just saw, right? 70 degrees.
I think that there are going to be people who want the full holographic glasses, and I think that there are going to be people who prefer kind of the superior form factor or lower price of a device where they are primarily optimizing for getting AI. I also think there's going to be a range of things in between, right? So there's the full kind of field of view that you just saw, right? 70 degrees.
I think that there are going to be people who want the full holographic glasses, and I think that there are going to be people who prefer kind of the superior form factor or lower price of a device where they are primarily optimizing for getting AI. I also think there's going to be a range of things in between, right? So there's the full kind of field of view that you just saw, right? 70 degrees.
really wide field of view for glasses. But I think that there are other products in between that too. There's like a heads-up display version. You know, for that, you probably just need, you know, 20, 30 degrees. You can't do kind of the full kind of world holograms where you're interacting with things.
really wide field of view for glasses. But I think that there are other products in between that too. There's like a heads-up display version. You know, for that, you probably just need, you know, 20, 30 degrees. You can't do kind of the full kind of world holograms where you're interacting with things.
really wide field of view for glasses. But I think that there are other products in between that too. There's like a heads-up display version. You know, for that, you probably just need, you know, 20, 30 degrees. You can't do kind of the full kind of world holograms where you're interacting with things.
Like you're not going to play ping pong in 30-degree field of view, but you can communicate with AI. You can text your friends. You can get directions. You can... see the content that you're capturing. So I know there's a lot there that's going to be compelling. And that's, I think, going to be
Like you're not going to play ping pong in 30-degree field of view, but you can communicate with AI. You can text your friends. You can get directions. You can... see the content that you're capturing. So I know there's a lot there that's going to be compelling. And that's, I think, going to be
Like you're not going to play ping pong in 30-degree field of view, but you can communicate with AI. You can text your friends. You can get directions. You can... see the content that you're capturing. So I know there's a lot there that's going to be compelling. And that's, I think, going to be
At each step along this continuum, from displayless to small display to kind of full holographic, you're packing more technology in. So each step up is going to be a little more expensive, is going to have a little more constraints on the form factor, even though I think we'll get them all to be attractive. You'll be able to do the kind of simpler ones and much smaller form factors permanently.
At each step along this continuum, from displayless to small display to kind of full holographic, you're packing more technology in. So each step up is going to be a little more expensive, is going to have a little more constraints on the form factor, even though I think we'll get them all to be attractive. You'll be able to do the kind of simpler ones and much smaller form factors permanently.
At each step along this continuum, from displayless to small display to kind of full holographic, you're packing more technology in. So each step up is going to be a little more expensive, is going to have a little more constraints on the form factor, even though I think we'll get them all to be attractive. You'll be able to do the kind of simpler ones and much smaller form factors permanently.
And then, of course, there's the mixed reality headsets, which kind of took a different direction, which is going towards the same vision, but... On that, we said, okay, well, we're not going to try to fit it into a glasses form factor. For that one, we're going to say, okay, we're going to really go for all the compute that we want.
And then, of course, there's the mixed reality headsets, which kind of took a different direction, which is going towards the same vision, but... On that, we said, okay, well, we're not going to try to fit it into a glasses form factor. For that one, we're going to say, okay, we're going to really go for all the compute that we want.
And then, of course, there's the mixed reality headsets, which kind of took a different direction, which is going towards the same vision, but... On that, we said, okay, well, we're not going to try to fit it into a glasses form factor. For that one, we're going to say, okay, we're going to really go for all the compute that we want.
And we're going to say, okay, this is going to be more of like a headset or goggles form factor. And my guess is that that's going to be a thing long-term too, because there are a bunch of uses where people want the full immersion. And if you're sitting at your desk and working for a long period of time, you might want the more computing power than you're going to be able to get.
And we're going to say, okay, this is going to be more of like a headset or goggles form factor. And my guess is that that's going to be a thing long-term too, because there are a bunch of uses where people want the full immersion. And if you're sitting at your desk and working for a long period of time, you might want the more computing power than you're going to be able to get.
And we're going to say, okay, this is going to be more of like a headset or goggles form factor. And my guess is that that's going to be a thing long-term too, because there are a bunch of uses where people want the full immersion. And if you're sitting at your desk and working for a long period of time, you might want the more computing power than you're going to be able to get.
But I think that there's no doubt that Kind of what you saw with Orion is the, I think, kind of quintessential vision of what people, what at least kind of I thought and continue to think is going to be the next multi-billion person major computing platform. And then kind of all these other things are going to get built out around it.
But I think that there's no doubt that Kind of what you saw with Orion is the, I think, kind of quintessential vision of what people, what at least kind of I thought and continue to think is going to be the next multi-billion person major computing platform. And then kind of all these other things are going to get built out around it.
But I think that there's no doubt that Kind of what you saw with Orion is the, I think, kind of quintessential vision of what people, what at least kind of I thought and continue to think is going to be the next multi-billion person major computing platform. And then kind of all these other things are going to get built out around it.
Yeah, yeah. Orion was meant to be our first consumer product. And we weren't sure if we were going to be able to pull it off. I mean, in general, it's probably turned out significantly better than our kind of 50-50 estimates of what it would be. But we didn't get there on everything that we wanted to.
Yeah, yeah. Orion was meant to be our first consumer product. And we weren't sure if we were going to be able to pull it off. I mean, in general, it's probably turned out significantly better than our kind of 50-50 estimates of what it would be. But we didn't get there on everything that we wanted to.
Yeah, yeah. Orion was meant to be our first consumer product. And we weren't sure if we were going to be able to pull it off. I mean, in general, it's probably turned out significantly better than our kind of 50-50 estimates of what it would be. But we didn't get there on everything that we wanted to.
I think we still want it to be a little smaller, a little brighter, like a little bit higher resolution, and a lot more affordable. Before we kind of put it out there as a product. And look, we have line of sight to all those things. So I think we'll probably have the thing that was going to be the V2 end up being the consumer product.
I think we still want it to be a little smaller, a little brighter, like a little bit higher resolution, and a lot more affordable. Before we kind of put it out there as a product. And look, we have line of sight to all those things. So I think we'll probably have the thing that was going to be the V2 end up being the consumer product.
I think we still want it to be a little smaller, a little brighter, like a little bit higher resolution, and a lot more affordable. Before we kind of put it out there as a product. And look, we have line of sight to all those things. So I think we'll probably have the thing that was going to be the V2 end up being the consumer product.
And we're going to use Orion with developers to basically cultivate the software experience. That way, by the time we're ready to ship something, it's going to be much more dialed in.
And we're going to use Orion with developers to basically cultivate the software experience. That way, by the time we're ready to ship something, it's going to be much more dialed in.
And we're going to use Orion with developers to basically cultivate the software experience. That way, by the time we're ready to ship something, it's going to be much more dialed in.
I always want to ship stuff quickly and all that. But I think it was the right thing. On this product, there's a pretty clear set of constraints that I think you want to hit.
I always want to ship stuff quickly and all that. But I think it was the right thing. On this product, there's a pretty clear set of constraints that I think you want to hit.
I always want to ship stuff quickly and all that. But I think it was the right thing. On this product, there's a pretty clear set of constraints that I think you want to hit.
especially around the form factor, right? I mean, it is very helpful for us that sort of chunkier glasses are kind of ascendant in the fashion world because that allows us to build glasses that are gonna be fashionable, but also tech forward. But even so, I'd say, you know, these are unmistakably glasses They're reasonably comfortable. They're, you know, under 100 grams.
especially around the form factor, right? I mean, it is very helpful for us that sort of chunkier glasses are kind of ascendant in the fashion world because that allows us to build glasses that are gonna be fashionable, but also tech forward. But even so, I'd say, you know, these are unmistakably glasses They're reasonably comfortable. They're, you know, under 100 grams.
especially around the form factor, right? I mean, it is very helpful for us that sort of chunkier glasses are kind of ascendant in the fashion world because that allows us to build glasses that are gonna be fashionable, but also tech forward. But even so, I'd say, you know, these are unmistakably glasses They're reasonably comfortable. They're, you know, under 100 grams.
Yeah, but I mean, I think we aspire to building things that like look really good, right? And I think this is like good glasses, but I want it to be a little smaller so it can fit within like really fashionable, right? When people see the Ray-Bans, there's no compromise on fashion. It's like part of why I think people like them
Yeah, but I mean, I think we aspire to building things that like look really good, right? And I think this is like good glasses, but I want it to be a little smaller so it can fit within like really fashionable, right? When people see the Ray-Bans, there's no compromise on fashion. It's like part of why I think people like them
Yeah, but I mean, I think we aspire to building things that like look really good, right? And I think this is like good glasses, but I want it to be a little smaller so it can fit within like really fashionable, right? When people see the Ray-Bans, there's no compromise on fashion. It's like part of why I think people like them
is, yeah, you get all this functionality, but even when you're not using it, they're great glasses. And I think for the future version of Orion, that's the target too. We want to make it so that, you know, most of the time you're going through your day, you're not computing, right? Or something is happening in the background or something.
is, yeah, you get all this functionality, but even when you're not using it, they're great glasses. And I think for the future version of Orion, that's the target too. We want to make it so that, you know, most of the time you're going through your day, you're not computing, right? Or something is happening in the background or something.
is, yeah, you get all this functionality, but even when you're not using it, they're great glasses. And I think for the future version of Orion, that's the target too. We want to make it so that, you know, most of the time you're going through your day, you're not computing, right? Or something is happening in the background or something.
So it just needs to be good in order for you to kind of want to keep it on your face. And I feel like we're almost there. I think we've made more progress than anyone else in the world that I'm aware of, but it didn't quite hit my bar. And similarly... On price, these are going to be more expensive than the Ray-Bans, right? I mean, there's just a lot more tech that's going in them.
So it just needs to be good in order for you to kind of want to keep it on your face. And I feel like we're almost there. I think we've made more progress than anyone else in the world that I'm aware of, but it didn't quite hit my bar. And similarly... On price, these are going to be more expensive than the Ray-Bans, right? I mean, there's just a lot more tech that's going in them.
So it just needs to be good in order for you to kind of want to keep it on your face. And I feel like we're almost there. I think we've made more progress than anyone else in the world that I'm aware of, but it didn't quite hit my bar. And similarly... On price, these are going to be more expensive than the Ray-Bans, right? I mean, there's just a lot more tech that's going in them.
But, you know, we do want to have it be within a consumer price point. This was outside that range. So I wanted to wait until we could get to that range in order to have something that we ship.
But, you know, we do want to have it be within a consumer price point. This was outside that range. So I wanted to wait until we could get to that range in order to have something that we ship.
But, you know, we do want to have it be within a consumer price point. This was outside that range. So I wanted to wait until we could get to that range in order to have something that we ship.
We are using this as a developer kit, just primarily internally and maybe with a handful of partners. Okay. But, I mean, I think at this point, meta is by far the... kind of premier developer of augmented reality and virtual and mixed reality software and hardware in the world. So you can think about it as a developer kit, but we just have a lot of that talent in-house.
We are using this as a developer kit, just primarily internally and maybe with a handful of partners. Okay. But, I mean, I think at this point, meta is by far the... kind of premier developer of augmented reality and virtual and mixed reality software and hardware in the world. So you can think about it as a developer kit, but we just have a lot of that talent in-house.
We are using this as a developer kit, just primarily internally and maybe with a handful of partners. Okay. But, I mean, I think at this point, meta is by far the... kind of premier developer of augmented reality and virtual and mixed reality software and hardware in the world. So you can think about it as a developer kit, but we just have a lot of that talent in-house.
And then we also have well-developed partnerships with a lot of folks externally who we can go to and work with them as well. So I don't think we need to go announce a dev kit that kind of arbitrary developers can go buy to get access to the talent that we need to go build out the platform. I think we're kind of in a place where we can work with partners and do that.
And then we also have well-developed partnerships with a lot of folks externally who we can go to and work with them as well. So I don't think we need to go announce a dev kit that kind of arbitrary developers can go buy to get access to the talent that we need to go build out the platform. I think we're kind of in a place where we can work with partners and do that.
And then we also have well-developed partnerships with a lot of folks externally who we can go to and work with them as well. So I don't think we need to go announce a dev kit that kind of arbitrary developers can go buy to get access to the talent that we need to go build out the platform. I think we're kind of in a place where we can work with partners and do that.
But that's absolutely what we're going to do over the next few years. hone the experience and figure out what we need to do to really nail it when it's ready to ship.
But that's absolutely what we're going to do over the next few years. hone the experience and figure out what we need to do to really nail it when it's ready to ship.
But that's absolutely what we're going to do over the next few years. hone the experience and figure out what we need to do to really nail it when it's ready to ship.
Yeah, probably. Yeah. But I mean, overall... for reality labs. For a while, a lot of people thought of all of that budget is going towards virtual and mixed reality. And I actually think we've said publicly that our glasses programs are a bigger budget than our virtual and mixed reality programs. But that goes across all of them, right?
Yeah, probably. Yeah. But I mean, overall... for reality labs. For a while, a lot of people thought of all of that budget is going towards virtual and mixed reality. And I actually think we've said publicly that our glasses programs are a bigger budget than our virtual and mixed reality programs. But that goes across all of them, right?
Yeah, probably. Yeah. But I mean, overall... for reality labs. For a while, a lot of people thought of all of that budget is going towards virtual and mixed reality. And I actually think we've said publicly that our glasses programs are a bigger budget than our virtual and mixed reality programs. But that goes across all of them, right?
We've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
We've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
We've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that we're going to catch all bad content in our system. We don't check what people say before they say it. And frankly, I don't think society should want us to.
Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that we're going to catch all bad content in our system. We don't check what people say before they say it. And frankly, I don't think society should want us to.
Now, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that we're going to catch all bad content in our system. We don't check what people say before they say it. And frankly, I don't think society should want us to.
I think it's been an unprecedented effort to help encourage people to get vaccinated, to promote authoritative information about COVID and the vaccines, and to fight and take down misinformation.
I think it's been an unprecedented effort to help encourage people to get vaccinated, to promote authoritative information about COVID and the vaccines, and to fight and take down misinformation.
I think it's been an unprecedented effort to help encourage people to get vaccinated, to promote authoritative information about COVID and the vaccines, and to fight and take down misinformation.
You know, some people might try to,
might prefer a version of themselves that's more emotive in their avatar than their actual faces.
So for example, I always get a lot of critique and shit for having a relatively stiff expression.
But I might feel pretty happy, but just make a pretty small smile.
So maybe for me, it's actually...
It's like I'd want to have my avatar really be able to better express how I'm feeling than how I can do physically.
So I think that there's a question about how you want to tune that.
But overall, yeah, I mean, we want to start from the baseline of capturing how people actually emote and express themselves.
And I think the initial version of this has been pretty impressive.
And like you said, I do think we're kind of beyond the uncanny valley here where it does feel like you.
It doesn't feel weird or anything like that.
I am curious to see, just because I've never done one of these before, I've never done a podcast as one of these Kodak avatars,
And I'm curious to see what people think of it because one of the issues that we've had in some of the VR and mixed reality work is it tends to feel a lot more profound when you're in it than the 2D videos capturing the experience.
So I think that this one, because it's photorealistic, may look kind of as amazing in 2D for people watching it as it feels, I think, to be in it.
But we've certainly had this...
this issue where a lot of the other things just, it's like you feel the sense of immersion when you're in it that doesn't quite translate to a 2D screen.
But I don't know, I'm curious to see what people think.
Yeah, I mean, I think we'll probably roll this out progressively over time.
So it's not going to be like we roll it out and one day everyone has a codec avatar.
We want to get more people scanned and into the system.
And then we want to start integrating it into each one of our apps, right?
Making it so that, you know, I think that for a lot of the work style things, productivity, I think that this is going to make a ton of sense.
In a lot of game environments, I mean, this could be fine, but games tend to have their own style, right?
Where you almost want to fit more with the aesthetic style of the game.
But I think for doing meetings, and one of the things that we get a lot of feedback on workrooms is,
where people are pretty blown away by the experience and this feeling that you can be remote, but feel like you're physically there around a table with people.
But then we get some feedback that people have a hard time with the fact that the avatars are so expressive and don't feel as realistic in that environment.
So I think something like this could make a very big difference for those remote meetings.
And especially with Quest 3 coming out, which is going to be the first mainstream mixed reality product, where you're really taking digital
you know, expressions of either a person or objects and overlaying them on the physical world.
I think the ability to do kind of remote meetings and things like that, where you're like,
just remote hang sessions with friends.
I mean, I think that that's going to be very exciting.
So yeah, rolling it out over the next, over the next few years, it's not ready to be like a, a kind of mainstream product yet, but we just want to, we'll keep tuning in and keep getting more scans in there and keep, you know, and kind of rolling it out into more of the features.
But yeah, I mean, definitely in the next, in the next few years, you'll be seeing a bunch more experiences like this.
it takes a certain amount of compute to go drive that, both for the sensors on the headset and then rendering it.
So one of the things that we're working through is what is the level of fidelity that is optimal, right?
You could do the full body in kind of a codec and that can be quite intensive.
But one of the things that we're thinking about is like, all right, maybe you can kind of stitch a somewhat lower fidelity version of your body, but still have the main kind of,
the major movements, but your face is really the thing that we have the most resolution on, right?
In terms of being able to read and express emotions.
I mean, like you said,
If you move your eyebrows like a millimeter, I mean, that really changes the expression and what you're emoting.
Whereas, you know, I mean, moving your arm like an inch probably doesn't matter quite as much.
So, yes, I think that we do want to get all of that into here.
And that'll be some of the work over the next period as well.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be the first mainstream mixed reality device.
I mean, obviously we shipped Quest Pro last year, but it was $1,500.
And part of what I'm super proud of is, you know, we try to innovate not just on
pushing the state of the art and delivering new capabilities, but making it so it can be available to everyone.
And, you know, we have this and it's coming out, it's $500.
And in some ways, I think the mixed reality is actually better in Quest 3 than it was than what we're using right now in Quest Pro.
So I'm really proud of the team for being able to deliver that kind of an innovation and get it out.
But, you know, some of this is just...
Software, you tune over time and get to be better.
Part of it is you put together a product and you figure out what are the bottlenecks in terms of making it a good experience.
So we got the resolution for the mixed reality cameras and sensors to be multiple times better in Quest 3.
And we just figured that that made a very big difference when we saw the experience that we were able to put together for Quest Pro.
And part of it is also that Qualcomm just came out with their next generation chipset for VR and MR that we worked with them on a kind of custom version of it.
But that was available this year for Quest 3, and it wasn't available in Quest Pro.
So in a way, Quest 3, even though it's not the Pro product,
actually has a stronger chipset in it than the Pro line at a third of the cost.
So I'm really excited to get this in people's hands.
It does all the VR stuff that Quest 2 and the others have done too.
It does it better because the display is better and the chip is better, so you'll get better graphics.
It's 40% thinner, so it's just more comfortable as well.
But the MR is really the big capability shift.
And part of what's exciting about the whole space right now is this isn't like smartphones where companies put out a new smartphone every year and you can almost barely tell the difference between that and the one the year before it.
Now for this, each time we put out a new headset,
It has like a major new capability.
And the big one now is mixed reality.
The ability to basically take digital representations of people or objects and superimpose them on the world.
And basically, you know, I mean, there's a...
One version of this is you're going to have these augments or holograms and experiences that you can bring into your living room or a meeting space or office.
Another thing that I just think is going to be a much simpler innovation is
is that there are a lot of VR experiences today that don't need to be fully immersive.
And if you're playing a shooter game or you're doing a fitness experience, sometimes people get worried about swinging their arms around.
Like, am I going to hit a lamp or something?
And am I going to run into something?
So having that in mixed reality actually is just...
a lot more comfortable for people, right?
You kind of still get the immersion and the 3D experience and you can have an experience that just wouldn't be possible in the physical world alone.
But by being anchored to and being able to see the physical world around you, it's like, it just feels so much safer and more secure.
And I think a lot of people are really going to enjoy that too.
So yeah, I'm really excited to see how people use it.
But yeah, Quest 3 coming out later this fall.
Yeah, it's like someone shooting at you, and you hide behind your real couch in order to duck the fire.
It's not just the cameras.
You basically need multiple cameras to capture the different angles and sort of the three-dimensional space.
And then it's a pretty complex compute problem and AI problem to map that to your perspective, right?
Because the cameras aren't exactly where your eyes are because no two people's eyes are going to be in exactly the same place.
You kind of need to get that to work.
to line up and then do that basically in real time and then generate something that looks that kind of feels natural and then
superimpose whatever digital objects you want to put there so it's yeah it's a very interesting technical challenge and um i think we'll continue tuning this for for the years to come as well but um but i'm pretty excited to to get this out because i think quest 3 is going to be the first device like this with that millions of people are going to get that's mixed reality and it's only when you have millions of people using something that you start getting the whole developer community really starting to experiment and build stuff because now there are going to be people who actually use it um
So I think we'll get, you know, we got some of that flywheel going with Quest Pro, but I think it'll really get accelerated once Quest 3 gets out there.
So yeah, I'm pretty excited about this one.
uh of the entire physical reality around you is also tracking the details of your hands in order to use that for like gesture recognition this kind of stuff yeah we've been able to get way further on hand recognition in a shorter period of time than i expected so that's been pretty cool i don't know did you see the the demo um experience that we built around um piano like yeah the piano learning to play piano yeah it's incredible
Well, there's what you can do with avatars overall in terms of superimposing digital objects on the physical world.
And then there's kind of psychologically, what does having photorealistic do?
So I think we're moving towards a world where
We're going to have something that looks like normal glasses where you can just see the physical world, but you also see holograms.
And in that world, I think that they're going to be not too far off.
Maybe by the end of this decade, we'll be living in a world where there are kind of as many holograms when you walk into a room as there are physical objects.
And it really raises this interesting question about what are...
You know, a lot of people have this phrase where they call the physical world the real world.
And I kind of think increasingly, you know, the physical world is super important, but I actually think the real world is the combination of the physical world and the digital worlds coming together.
But until this technology...
they were sort of separate, right?
It's like you access the digital world through a screen, right?
And maybe it's a small screen that you carry around, or it's a bigger screen where you sit down at your desk and strap in for a long session, but they're kind of fundamentally divorced and disconnected.
And I think part of what this technology is gonna do is bring those together into a single coherent experience of what the modern real world is, which is it's gotta be physical because we're physical beings.
So the physical world is always going to be super important, but, but increasingly, I think a lot of the things that we kind of think of, um, can be digital holograms.
I mean, any screen that you have can be a hologram, um, you know, any media, um, in any book art, um, you know, it can basically be just as effective as a hologram as a physical object, any game, um, that you're playing a board game or, um, or any kind of physical game cards, um,
You know, ping pong, things like that.
They're often a lot better as holograms because you could just kind of snap your fingers and instantiate them and have them show up.
You know, it's like you have a ping pong table show up in your living room, but then you can snap your fingers and have it be gone.
So that's super powerful.
So I think that it's actually an amazing thought experiment of like,
how many physical things we have today that could actually be better as interactive holograms.
But then beyond that, I think the, the, the most important thing obviously is people.
So the ability to, you know, have these mixed hangouts, whether they're social or meetings where you show up to a conference room, you're wearing glasses, um, or a headset in the very near term, but, you know, hopefully by, you know, over the next five years, glasses or so.
And, um,
And you're there physically, some people are there physically, but other people are just there as holograms, and it feels like it's them who are right there.
And also, by the way, another thing that I think is going to be fascinating about being able to blend together the digital and physical worlds in this way is we're also going to be able to embody...
AIs as well.
So I think you'll also have meetings in the future where you're basically, maybe you're sitting there physically, and then you have a couple of other people who are there as holograms.
And then you have Bob, the AI, who's an engineer on your team who's helping with things.
And he can now be embodied as a realistic avatar as well and just join the meeting in that way.
So I think that that
That's going to be pretty compelling as well.
So then, okay, so what can you do with photorealistic avatars compared to kind of the more expressive ones that we have today?
Well, I think a lot of this actually comes down to acceptance of the technology.
And
Because all of the stuff that we're doing, I mean, the motion of your eyebrows, the motion of your eyes, the cheeks and all of that, there's actually no reason why you couldn't do that on an expressive avatar, too.
I mean, it wouldn't look exactly like you, but you could make a cartoon version of yourself and still have it be almost as expressive.
But I do think that there's this bridge between...
the current state of most our interactions in the physical world and where we're getting in the future with this kind of hybrid physical and digital world where I think it's going to be a lot easier for people to
kind of take some of these experiences seriously with the photorealistic avatars to start.
And then I'm actually really curious to see where it goes longer term.
I could see a world where people stick to the photorealistic and maybe they modify them to make them a little bit more interesting, but maybe fundamentally we like photorealistic things.
But I can also see a world that once people get used to the photorealistic avatars and they get used to these experiences, that...
I actually think that there could be a world where people actually prefer being able to express themselves in ways that aren't so tied to their physical reality.
That's one of the things that I'm really curious about.
In a bunch of our internal experiments on this, one of the things that
his i thought was psychologically pretty interesting is people have no issues blending photorealistic stuff and not so you know we can have a you know for this specific scene that we're in now we we happen to sort of being in a dark room um i think part of that aesthetic decision i think was based on the way you like to do your podcast but we've we've done experiences like this um
where you have like a cartoony background, but photorealistic people who you're talking to.
And we seem to, like people just seem to just think that that is completely normal, right?
It doesn't bother you.
It doesn't feel like it's weird.
Another thing that we've experienced with is basically you have a photorealistic avatar that you're talking to, and then right next to them, you have an expressive kind of cartoon avatar.
And that actually is pretty normal too, right?
It's not that weird to basically be interacting with different people in different modes like that.
So I'm not sure.
I think it'll be an interesting question to what extent these photorealistic avatars are like
a key part of just transitioning from being comfortable in the physical world to this kind of new modern real world that kind of includes both the digital and physical, or if this is like the long-term way that it stays.
That's a, I mean, I think that there are going to be uses for both the expressive and the photorealistic over time.
I just don't know what the balance is going to be.
Yeah.
And, and I mean, it's also, it's novel and it's also a technological feat, right?
It's like being able to pull this off is like, it's a, it's like a pretty impressive.
And I think to some degree, it's just this kind of like awesome experience.
but I mean, but here's some of the, so I put this on this morning and I was like, all right, like, it's like, okay, so this, my hair is a little shorter in this than my physical hair is right now.
I probably need to go get a haircut.
Um, and like, and I actually, I did happen to shave this morning, but, but if I hadn't, you know, I could still have this photorealistic avatar that is, that is more cleanly shaven, right.
Even if I'm, you know, a few days in, um,
So I do think that they're going to start to be these subtle questions that seep in where the avatar is realistic in the sense of this is kind of what you looked like at the time of capture, but it's not necessarily temporarily accurate to exactly what you look like in this moment.
And I think that they're going to end up being a bunch of questions that
that come from that over time that I think are going to be fascinating too.
Well, I mean, I think our physical bodies also fluctuate and change over time too.
So I think there's a similar question of like, which version of that are we?
And it's an interesting identity question because, all right, it's like,
I don't know.
It's like weight fluctuates or things like that.
It's like, I think most people don't tend to think of themselves as the, uh, well, I don't know.
It's an interesting psychological question.
Some, maybe some people, maybe a lot of people do think about themselves as the kind of worst version.
Um, but yeah, but I think a lot of people probably think about themselves as the best version.
And, and I, and then it's like what you are on a day-to-day basis doesn't necessarily map to, to, um,
to either of those.
Yeah, there will definitely be a bunch of social scientists and psychologists.
Really, there's going to be a lot to understand about how our perception of ourselves and others has shifted from this.
Yeah, I think that there are a lot of norms and things that people have to figure out around that.
There's probably some balance where if someone has lost a loved one and is grieving, there may be ways in which being able to interact or relive certain memories could be helpful.
But then there's also probably an extent to which it could become unhealthy.
And I mean, I'm not an expert in that.
So I think we'd have to study that and understand it in more detail.
We have a fair amount of experience...
with how to handle death and identity and people's digital content through social media already, unfortunately, right?
Whether, you know, there's, you know, unfortunately, you know, people who use our services die every day and their families, you know, often want to have access to their profiles.
And we have whole,
protocols that we go through where, you know, there are certain parts of it that, um, that we try to memorialize.
So that way the, the family can, can get access to it.
So that way the account doesn't just go away immediately, but then there are other things that are, you know, important kind of private things that that person has, like we're not going to give the family access to someone's messages, you know, for example.
So, um, so yeah, I think that there's, there's some best practices I think from the current digital world that will carry over, but, um,
But yeah, I think that this will enable some different things.
Another version of this is how this intersects with AIs, right?
Because one of the things that we're really focused on is we want the world to evolve in a way where there isn't like a single AI superintelligence, but where a lot of people are empowered by having AI tools to do their jobs and make their lives better.
And if you're a creator, right, and if you run a podcast like you do, then you have a big community of people who are super interested to talk to you.
I know you'd love to cultivate that community and you interact with them online outside of the
podcast as well.
But I mean, there's way more demand both to interact with you, and I'm sure you'd love to interact with the community more, but you just are limited by the number of hours in the day.
So, you know, at some point, I think, making it so that you could build an AI version of yourself that could interact with people, you know, not after you die, but while you're here to help, you know, help people kind of fulfill this desire to interact with you and your desire to build a community.
And there's a lot of interesting questions around that.
And, you know, that's obviously it's not just in the metaverse.
I think, you know, we'd want to make that work, you know, across all the messaging platforms, you know, WhatsApp and Messenger and Instagram Direct.
But, you know, there's certainly, you know, a version of that where.
If you could have an avatar version of yourself in the metaverse that people can interact with and you could define that sort of an AI version where people know that they're interacting with an AI, that it's not the kind of physical version of you, but maybe that AI, even if they know it's an AI, is the next best thing because they're probably not going to necessarily all get to interact with you.
directly, I think that that could be a really compelling experience.
There's a lot of things that we need to get right about it.
That, you know, we're not ready to release the version that a creator can kind of build a version of themselves yet, but we're starting to experiment with it in terms of releasing a number of AIs that people can interact with in different ways.
And I think that that is also just going to be a very powerful set of capabilities that people have over time.
Yeah, so a lot of the vision comes from this idea that I don't think we necessarily want there to be one big superintelligence.
We want to empower everyone to both have more fun, accomplish their business goals, just everything that they're trying to do.
And we don't tend to have one person that we work with on everything.
And I don't think in the future we're going to have one AI that we work with.
I think you're going to want...
a variety of these.
So there are a bunch of different uses.
Some will be kind of more assistant-oriented.
There's sort of the kind of plain and simple one that we're building.
It's called just Meta AI.
It's simple.
You can chat with it in any of your threads.
It doesn't have a face, right?
It's just kind of more vanilla and neutral and kind of factual, but it can help you with a bunch of stuff.
Then there are a bunch of cases that are more kind of business oriented.
So let's say you want to contact a small business.
Similarly, that business probably doesn't want to have to staff someone to man the phones, and you probably don't want to wait on the phone to talk to someone.
But having someone who you can just talk to in a natural way, who can help you if you're having an issue with a product, or if you want to make a reservation, or if you want to buy something online, having the ability to do that and have a natural conversation rather than navigate some website or have to call someone and wait on hold is going to be really good, both for the
normal people who want to interact with businesses.
So I think stuff like that makes sense.
Then there are going to be a bunch of use cases that I think are just fun, right?
So I think people are going to, I think that there will be AIs that can tell jokes.
So you can put them into chat thread with friends.
I mean, I think a lot of this, because we're like a social company, right?
I mean, we're fundamentally around helping people connect in different ways.
And part of what I'm excited about is how do you enable these kind of
AIs to facilitate connection between two people or more, you know, put them in a group chat, you know, make the group chat more interesting, um, around whatever your interests are, sports, fashion, um, trivia.
I do think that AIs will make the NPCs a lot better in games too.
So that's a separate thing that I'm pretty excited about.
But yeah, I mean, one of the AIs that we've built that just in our internal testing people have loved the most is like an adventure text-based game
like a dungeon master.
Yeah, nice.
And I think part of what has been fun, and we talked about this a bit, but we've gotten some real kind of cultural figures to play a bunch of these folks and be the embodiment and the avatar of them.
So Snoop Dogg is the dungeon master, which I think is just hilarious.
So starting off...
creating new personas is easier because it doesn't need to stick exactly to what, you know, that physical person would want, how they'd want to be represented.
Right.
It's like, it's just a new character that we created.
So even though there's a Snoop in that cases, you know, he's, um, you know, he's basically an actor, right.
He's playing the dungeon master, but it's not Snoop dog, right.
It's, it's, um, you know, whoever the dungeon master is.
Um,
if you want to actually make it so that you have an AI embodying a real creator, there's a whole set of things that you need to do to make sure that, that AI is not going to say things that the creator doesn't want.
Right.
And, um, and that the AI is going to, you know, know things and be able to represent things in the way that the creator would want, um, the way that the creator would know, um,
So I think that it's less of a question around like having the avatar express them.
I mean, that I think we're, you know, it's like, well, we have our kind of V1 of that that we'll release soon after Connect, but, you know, that'll get better over time.
But a lot of this is really just about continuing to make the models for these AIs so that they're just more and more, I don't know, you could say like,
or predictable in terms of what they'll communicate.
So that way, you know, when you want to create the Lex assistant AI that your community can talk to, you can...
You don't program them like normal computers.
You're training them.
They're AI models, not normal computer programs.
But you want to get it to be predictable enough so that way you can set some parameters for it.
And even if it isn't perfect all the time, you want it to generally be able to stay within those bounds.
So that's a lot of...
what I think we need to nail for the creators.
And that's why that one's actually a much harder problem, I think, than starting with new characters that you're creating from scratch.
So that one, I think, will probably start releasing sometime next year, not this year, but experimenting with existing characters and the assistant and games and a bunch of different personalities and
experimenting with some small businesses.
I think that that stuff will be ready to do this year, and we're rolling it out basically right after Connect.
I think the idea of a podcast between you and AI assistant Lex podcast...
Yeah, well, I mean, a big part of how we're trying to design these new computing products is that they should be physical.
I think that's a big part of the issue with computers and TVs and even phones is like, yeah, I mean, maybe you can interact with them in different places, but they're fundamentally like you're sitting, you're still.
And I mean, people are just not meant to be that way.
I mean, I think you and I have this shared...
passion for sports and martial arts and doing stuff like that.
We were just moving around.
It's like so much of what makes us people is like, you know, you, you move around.
You're not, we're not just like a brain in a tank, right?
It's the, we're,
The human experience is a physical one.
And so it's not just about having the immersive expression of the digital world.
It's about being able to really natively bring that together.
And I do really think that the real world is this mix of the physical and the digital.
There's too much digital at this point for it to just be siloed to a small screen.
But the physical is too important, so you don't want to just sit down all day long at a desk.
So I think that this is, yeah, I do think that this is the future.
This is, I think, the kind of philosophical way that I would want the world to work in the future is a much more coherently blended physical and digital world.
Well, I think, I mean, there are content policies and things like that, right, in terms of what people are allowed to create.
But, I mean, a lot of the rules around physical, I think you try to have a society that is as free as possible, meaning that people can do as much of what they want unless you're going to do damage to other people.
And
and infringe on their rights.
And the idea of damage is somewhat different in a digital environment.
I mean, when I get into some world with my friends, the first thing we start doing is shooting each other, which obviously we would not do in the physical world because you'd hurt each other.
But in a game, it's almost just fun.
And even in the lobby of a game, it's not even bearing on the game.
It's just kind of like a funny...
sort of humorous thing to do.
So it's like, is that problematic?
I don't think so, because fundamentally, you're not causing harm in that world.
So I think that the...
part of the question that I think we need to figure out is what are the ways where things could have been harmful in the physical world that we will now be freed from that.
And therefore there should be fewer restrictions in the digital world.
And then there might be new ways in which there could be harm in the digital world that there weren't the case before.
So there's more anonymity, right?
It's, you know, when you, when you show up to a,
you know, a restaurant or something, it's like all the norms where you pay the bill at the end.
It's because, you know, you, you, you have one identity and, you know, the, you know, if you, if you stiff them, then like, you know, life is a repeat game and that's not going to work out well for you.
But, you know, in a digital world where you can be anonymous and show up in different ways, um, I think the incentive to act like a good citizen can be a lot less and that causes a lot of issues and toxic behavior.
So that needs to get sorted out.
Um,
So I think in terms of what is allowed, I think you want to just look at what are the damages.
But then there's also other things that are not related to kind of harm, less about what should be allowed and more about what will be possible that are more about the laws of physics, right?
It's like if you wanted to travel to see me in person, you'd have to get on a plane and that would take a few hours to get here.
Whereas...
we could just jump in a conference room and put on these headsets and we're basically teleported into a space where it feels like we're together.
So that's a very novel experience that it breaks down some things that previously would have defied the laws of physics for what it would take to get together.
And I think that that will create a lot of new opportunities.
So one of the things that I'm curious about is there are all these debates right now about
remote work or people being together.
And I think this gets us a lot closer to being able to work physically in different places, but actually have it feel like we're together.
So I think the dream is that people will one day be able to just work wherever they want, but we'll have all the same opportunities because you'll be able to feel like you're physically together.
I think we're not there today with just video conferencing and the basic technologies that we have, but the
I think part of the idea is that with something like this, over time you could get closer to that and that would open up a lot of opportunities, right?
Because then people could live physically where they want while still being able to get the benefits of being physically or kind of feeling like you're together with people at work, all the ways that that helps to build more culture and build better relationships and build trust, which I think are real issues that if you're not seeing people, you know, in person ever.
So yeah, I don't know.
I think it's going to be,
it's very hard from first principles to think about all the implications of, um, of, of a technology like this and, you know, all the good and, and, and the things that you need to mitigate.
So you try to do your best to, to kind of envision what things are going to be like and accentuate the things that they're going to be awesome and hopefully mitigate some of the, the, the downside things.
But I,
The reality is that we're going to be building this out one year at a time.
It's going to take a while.
So we're going to just get to see how it evolves and what developers and different folks do with it.
Yeah, I mean, I think on the last podcast that we did together, we were talking about the debate that we were having around open sourcing Lama 2.
And I'm glad that we did.
I think at this point, the value of open sourcing a foundation model like Lama 2 is significantly greater than the risks, in my view.
I mean, we spent a lot of time
took a very rigorous assessment of that and red teaming it.
Um, but I'm, I'm very glad that we released Lama too.
I think the reception has been, um, it's, it's just been really exciting to see how excited people have, have been, uh, about it.
And it's gotten way more downloads and usage than I, than I, I would have even expected.
And I was pretty optimistic about it.
Um, so that's, that's been great.
Um,
Lama 3, I mean, there's always another model that we're training.
So, I mean, for right now, we train Lama 2 and we released it as an open source model.
And right now, the priority is building that into a bunch of the consumer products, all the different AIs and a bunch of different products.
products that we're basically building as consumer products.
Because Lama 2 by itself, it's not a consumer product, right?
It's more of a piece of infrastructure that people could build things with.
So that's been the big priority is kind of continuing to fine tune and kind of just get Lama 2 and its...
And it's the branches that we've built off of it ready for consumer products that hopefully hundreds of millions of people will enjoy using those products in billions one day.
But yeah, I mean, we're also working on the future foundation models.
And I don't have anything...
news on that.
I don't know exactly when it's going to be ready.
I think just like we had a debate around Lama 2 and open sourcing it, I think we'll need to have a similar debate and process to red team this and make sure that this is safe.
And my hope is that we'll be able to open source this next version when it's ready too.
But that's not... We're not...
close to doing that this month.
It's a thing that we're still somewhat early in working on.
Yeah, I mean, part of what we're trying to do with the initial AI's launch is having a diversity of different use cases just so that people can try different things.
Because I don't know what's going to work.
I mean, are people going to like playing the text-based adventure games?
Are they going to like having a comedian who can add jokes to threads?
Or are they going to want to interact with historical figures?
You know, we made one of Jane Austen and one of Marcus Aurelius, and I'm curious to see how that goes.
Yeah, totally.
I mean, that's why, well, we're starting out with a set.
And then we're also working on this platform that we call AI Studio that's going to make it so that over time, anyone will be able to create one of these AIs almost like they create any other UGC content across the platform.
So I'm excited about that.
I think that to some degree, we're not going to see the full potential of this until you just have the full creativity of the whole community being able to build stuff.
But...
there's a lot of stuff that we need to get right.
So I'm excited to take this in stages.
I don't think anyone out there is really doing what we're doing here.
I think that there are people who are doing kind of like fictional or consumer-oriented character type stuff, but the extent to which we're building it out with the avatars and expressiveness and
And making it so that they can interact across all of the different apps and they'll have profiles and we'll be able to engage people on Instagram and Facebook.
I think it's going to be really fun.
Well, I mean, this is a lot of the thesis behind the whole metaverse is giving people the ability to feel like you're present with someone.
I mean, this is like the main thing I talk about all the time.
But I do think that there's a lot to process about it.
I mean, from my perspective, I mean, I'm definitely here.
We're just not physically in the same place.
It's not like you're not talking to an AI, right?
You know, this is...
So I think the thing that's novel is the ability to convey through technology a sense of almost physical presence.
So the thing that is not physically real is us being in the same physical place, but kind of everything else is.
And I think that that gets to this...
somewhat philosophical question about what is the nature of kind of the modern real world.
And I just think that it really is this combination of a physical world and the presence that we feel, but also being able to combine that with this increasingly rich and powerful and capable digital world that we have and all of the innovation that's getting created there.
So
I think it's super exciting because, I mean, the digital world is just increasing in its capability and our ability to do awesome things.
But the physical world is so profound and that's a lot of what makes us human is that we're physical beings.
So I don't think we want to run away from that and just spend all day on a screen.
And that's like, you know, it's one of the reasons why I care so much about helping to shape and accelerate these future computing platforms.
I just think this is so powerful.
And it's, you know, even though...
The current version of this is like you're wearing a headset.
I just think this is going to be by far the most human and social computing platform that has ever existed.
And that's what makes me excited.
But there are a lot of social and psychological things that go along with that
experience that was previously only physical presence, right?
I think that there's like an intimacy, a trust, you know, there's a level of communication because so much of communication is non-verbal and is based on expressions that you're kind of, you know, you're sharing with someone when you're in this kind of
environment.
And before those things would have only been possible had I gotten on a plane and flown to Austin and sat physically with you in the same place.
So I think we're basically shortcutting those laws of physics and delivering the social and psychological benefits of being able to be present and feel like you're there with another person, which I think are real benefits.
And
to anyone in the world.
And I think that that, like you said, I mean, I think that is going to be a very profound thing.
And that a lot of that is, you know, that's the promise of, of the metaverse and what, you know, why, you know, I, I just, well, I think that that's the next frontier for, for what we're working on.
You know, I started working on,
social networks when they were primarily text or the first version of Facebook, your profile, you know, you had one photo and the rest of it was like lists of things that you were interested in.
And, and then we kind of went through the period where we're doing photos and now we're kind of in the period where most of the content is video, but it's,
there's a clear trend where over time, the way that we want to express ourselves and kind of get insight and content about the world around us gets increasingly just richer and more vivid.
And I think the ability to be immersed and feel present with the people around you or the people who you care about is, from my perspective, clearly the next frontier.
It just so happens that it's
incredibly technologically difficult, right?
It requires building up these new computing platforms and completely new software stacks to deliver that.
But I mean, I kind of feel like that's what we're here to do as a company.
I'm in a conference room.
Awesome, awesome.
Glad you got to check it out.
And it's always fun to talk.
All right, I'll catch you soon.
See ya.
Yeah, I was commenting to the team before that I feel like we've choked each other from further distances than it feels like we are right now.
Yeah, so I mean, for background, we both did these scans for this research project that we have at Meta called Kodak Avatars.
And the idea is that instead of our avatars being cartoony, and instead of actually transmitting a video, what it does is we've sort of scanned ourselves in a lot of different expressions.
And we've built a computer model of sort of each of our faces and bodies and the different expressions that we make and collapse that into a Kodak that then when you have the headset on your head, it can...
It sees your face, it sees your expression, and it can basically send an encoded version of what you're supposed to look like over the wire.
So in addition to being photorealistic, it's also actually much more bandwidth efficient than transmitting a full video or especially a 3D immersive video of a whole scene like this.
Yeah, eyes are a huge part of it.
Yeah, I mean, there's all the studies that most of communication, even when people are speaking, is not actually the words that they're saying.
It's kind of the expression and all that.
And we try to capture that with the kind of classical...
expressive avatar system that we have.
That's the kind of more cartoon designed one.
You can, you can kind of put those kinds of expressions on those faces as well, but there's obviously a certain realism that comes with delivering kind of this photorealistic experience that I don't know.
I just think it's really magical.
I mean, this gets to kind of the core of what the vision around virtual and augmented reality is of like delivering a sense of presence as if you're
they're together no matter where you actually are in the world.
And I mean, this, this experience, I think is a good embodiment of that where it's like, I mean, we're in two completely different States, halfway across the country.
And it just like, you know, it looks like you're just sitting right in front of me.
It's a, it's pretty wild.
You know, it starts off with a small number of people doing these very detailed scans, right?
Which is, that's the version that you did and that I did.
And, you know, before there are a lot of people who we've done this kind of a scan for, we probably need to kind of over-collect
expressions when we're doing the scanning because we haven't figured out how much we can reduce that down to a really streamlined process and extrapolate from the scans that have already been done.
But the goal, and we have a project that's working on this already, is just to do a very quick scan with your cell phone where you just take your phone, kind of wave it in front of your face for a couple of minutes, say a few sentences, make a
have the whole process just be two to three minutes and then produce something that's of the quality of what we have right now.
So I think that that's one of the big challenges that remains.
And right now we have the ability to do the scans if you have hours to sit for one.
And with today's technology, I mean, you're using a meta headset that exists.
It's a product that's kind of for sale now.
You can drive these with that.
But the production of these scans in a very efficient way is one of the last pieces that we still need to really nail.
And then obviously there's all the experiences around it.
I mean, right now we're kind of sitting in a dark room, which is familiar for your podcast.
But I think part of the vision for this over time
is not just having this be like a video call.
I mean, that's fine.
It's cool.
It feels like it's immersive.
But you can do a video call on your phone.
The thing that you can do in the metaverse that is different from what you can do on a phone is like...
doing stuff where you're physically there together and participating in things together.
And we could play games like this.
We could have meetings like this in the future.
Once you get mixed reality and augmented reality, we could have codec avatars like this and go into a meeting and have some people physically there and have some people show up in this photorealistic form
superimposed on the physical environment.
I think that stuff like that is going to be super powerful.
So we got to still build out all those kind of applications and the use cases around it.
But I don't know.
I think it's going to be a pretty wild next few years around this.
Yeah, I mean, I think there's still a bunch of tuning that I think we'll want to do where different people emote
to different extents, right?
So I think one of the big questions is, you know, like when you smile, how wide is your smile and how wide do you want your smile to be?
And I think getting that to be tuned on a per person basis is going to be one of the things that we're going to need to figure out.
You know, it's like, to what extent do you want to give people control over that?
That said, I don't like hurting people.
So I always think that chokes are a somewhat more humane way to go than joint locks.
So let's go, yeah, back take to a rear naked choke.
I think it's like the clean way to go.
I just think you have to be willing to just get beaten up a lot.
Yeah.
But I mean, over time, I think that there's a flow to all these things.
And there's, you know, one of the, one of, I don't know, my experiences that I think kind of transcends, you know, running a company and the different
different activities that i like doing are i i really believe that like if you're going to accomplish whatever anything a lot of it is just being willing to push through right and having the grit and determination to to to push through difficult situations um i think for a lot of people that um that ends up being sort of a difference maker between the people you know who who kind of get the most done and not i mean there's all these questions about like
um you know how how many days people want to work and things like that i think almost all the people who like start successful companies or things like that are just are working extremely hard but i think one of the things that you learn both by doing this over time or you know very acutely with things like jujitsu or surfing is um you can't push through everything and i think that that's
You learn this stuff very acutely doing sports compared to running a company because running a company, the cycle times are so long, right?
It's like you start a project and then it's like months later or if you're building hardware, it could be years later before you're actually getting feedback and able to make the next set of decisions for the next version of the thing that you're doing.
Whereas one of the things that I just think is mentally so nice about these very high turnaround cycles
conditioning sports things like that is you get feedback very quickly right it's like okay like i don't counter something correctly you get punched in the face right so not in jiu-jitsu you don't you don't get punched in jiu-jitsu but in mma um there are all these analogies between all these things that i think actually hold that are that are like important life lessons right it's like okay you're surfing a wave it's like
you know sometimes you're like you can't go in the other direction on it right it's like there are limits to kind of what you know it's like a foil you can you can pump the foil and and push pretty hard in a bunch of directions but like yeah you you know it's at some level like the momentum against you is is strong enough you're that's not going to work and and i do think that um
that's sort of a, a humbling, but also an important lesson for, and I think people who are running things or building things, it's like, yeah, you, you, um, you know, a lot of the game is just being able to kind of push and, and, and, and work through complicated things, but you also need to kind of have enough of an understanding of like which things you're, you just can't push through and where, where, um, um, the finesse is more important.
What are your jujitsu life lessons?
Yeah, sure.
I think you're right, first of all, that in the last year, there have been a bunch of advances on scaling up these large transformer models.
So there's the language equivalent of it with large language models.
There's sort of the image generation equivalent with these large diffusion models.
There's a lot of fundamental research that's gone into this.
And
meta has taken the approach of being quite open and academic in in in our development um of of ai part of this is we want to have the best people in the world researching this and um
And a lot of the best people want to know that they're going to be able to share their work.
So that's part of the deal that we have is that we can get, if you're one of the top AI researchers in the world and come here, you can get access to kind of industry scale infrastructure.
And part of our ethos is that we want to share what's invented broadly.
We do that with a lot of the different AI tools that we create.
And Lama is the language model that our research team made.
And, you know, we did a limited open source release for it, right, which was intended for researchers to be able to use it.
But responsibility and getting safety right on these is very important.
So we didn't think that... For the first one, there were a bunch of questions around whether we should be releasing this commercially.
So we kind of punted on that for V1 of Llama and just released it from research.
Now, obviously, by releasing it for research...
you know, it's out there, but companies know that they're not supposed to kind of put it into commercial releases.
And we're working on the follow-up models for this and thinking through how exactly this should work for follow-on now that we've had time to work on a lot more of the safety and the pieces around that.
But overall, I mean, this is, I just kind of think that it would be good
if there were a lot of different folks who had the ability to build state-of-the-art technology here you know it's in not just a small number of of big companies where to train one of these ai models the state-of-the-art models is um
you know, just takes, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of infrastructure, right?
So there are not that many organizations in the world, um, that can do that at the biggest scale today.
And now it gets, it gets more efficient every day.
So, um, so I, I do think that that will be available to more folks over time, but, but I just think like there's, there's all this innovation out there that people can create.
And, um,
I just think that we'll also learn a lot by seeing what the whole community of students and hackers and startups and different folks build with this.
That's been how we've approached this.
It's also how we've done a lot of our infrastructure.
We took our whole data center design and our server design and we built this open compute project where we just made that public.
Part of the theory was like, all right, if we make it so that more people can use the server design, then that'll enable more innovation.
It'll also make the server design more efficient and that'll make our business more efficient too.
So that's worked and we've just done this with a lot of our infrastructure.
We shared it with researchers.
No, I think it's been really neat to see.
I mean, there's been folks who are getting it to run on local devices, right?
So if you're an individual who just wants to experiment with this at home,
you probably don't have a large budget to get access to like a large amount of cloud compute.
So getting it to run on your local laptop, um, you know, is, is, uh, is pretty good, right.
And pretty relevant.
Um, and then there were things like, yeah, Lama CPP, um, re-implemented it more efficiently.
So, you know, now even when we run our own versions of it, um, we can do it on way less compute and it just way more efficient, save a lot of money, um, for everyone who uses this.
So that, that is, is, is good.
Um,
I do think it's worth calling out that because this was a relatively early release, Lama isn't quite as on the frontier as, for example, the biggest OpenAI models or the biggest Google models, right?
I mean, you mentioned that the largest Lama model that we released had 65 billion parameters.
And no one knows...
I guess outside of open AI, exactly what the specs are for GPT-4.
But I think my understanding is it's like 10 times bigger.
And I think Google's Palm model is also, I think, has about 10 times as many parameters.
Now, the Lama models are very efficient.
So they perform well for something that's around 65 billion parameters.
So for me, that was also part of this because there's this whole debate around
Is it good for everyone in the world to have access to the most frontier AI models?
And I think as the AI models start approaching something that's like a super human intelligence, that's a bigger question that we'll have to grapple with.
But right now, I mean, these are still...
you know, very basic tools.
They're, um, you know, they're, they're powerful in the sense that, you know, a lot of open source software like databases or web servers can enable a lot of pretty important things.
Um, but I don't think anyone looks at the, the, you know, the current generation of Lama and thinks it's, um, you know, anywhere near a super intelligence.
So I think that a bunch of those questions around, like, is it, is it good to, to kind of get out there and
I think at this stage, surely you want more researchers working on it for all the reasons that open source software has a lot of advantages.
And we talked about efficiency before, but another one is just open source software tends to be more secure because you have more people looking at it openly and scrutinizing it and finding holes in it.
And that makes it more safe.
So I think at this point, it's more... I think it's generally agreed upon that...
open source software is generally more secure and safer than things that are kind of developed in a silo where people try to get through security through obscurity.
So I think that for the scale of what we're seeing now with AI, I think we're more likely to get to good alignment and good understanding of kind of what needs to do to make this work well by having it be open source.
And that's something that I think is quite good to have out there and happening publicly at this point.
Yeah, I mean, again, I think for the stage that we're at in the development of AI, I don't think anyone looks at the current state of things and thinks that this is superintelligence.
And the models that we're talking about, the Lama models here, are generally an order of magnitude smaller than what OpenAI or Google are doing.
So...
I think that, at least for the stage that we're in now, the equity is balanced strongly, in my view, towards doing this more openly.
I think if you got something that was closer to superintelligence, then I think you'd have to discuss that more and think through that a lot more.
And we haven't made a decision yet as to what we would do if we were in that position, but I think there's a good chance that we're pretty far off from that position.
So...
I'm certainly not saying that the position that we're taking on this now
applies to every single thing that we would ever do and you know certainly inside the company you know we probably do more open source work than you know most of the other big tech companies but we also don't open source everything right a lot of our the core kind of app code for whatsapp or instagram or something i mean we're not open sourcing that it's not like a a general enough piece of software that would be useful for a lot of people to do different things um you know whereas
the software that we do whether it's like a an open source server design or um or basically you know things like memcache right like a good you know it was probably our earliest project um that that i worked on it was probably one of the last things that i that i coded and and led directly for the company um but but basically this like caching tool um for for quick data retrieval um
These are things that are just broadly useful across anything that you want to build.
And I think that some of the language models now have that feel, as well as some of the other things that we're building, like the translation tool that you just referenced.
Yeah, I think being able to translate between all of these different pieces in real time, this has been a kind of common sci-fi idea that we'd all have, you know, whether it's
I don't know, an earbud or glasses or something that can help translate in real time between all these different languages.
And that's one that I think technology is basically delivering now.
So yeah, I think that's pretty exciting.
Well, a lot of what we're doing is taking the first version, which was primarily this research version, and trying to now build a version that has...
all of the latest state-of-the-art safety precautions built in.
And we're using some more data to train it from across our services, but a lot of the work that we're doing internally is really just focused on making sure that this is, you know, as aligned and responsible as possible.
And, you know, we're building a lot of our own, you know, we're talking about kind of the open source infrastructure, but,
the main thing that we focus on building here, a lot of product experience is to help people connect and express themselves.
So we're going to
I've talked about a bunch of this stuff, but you'll have an assistant that you can talk to in WhatsApp.
I think in the future, every creator will have kind of an AI agent that can kind of act on their behalf, that their fans can talk to.
I want to get to the point where every small business basically has an AI agent that people can talk to to do commerce and customer support and things like that.
So there are going to be all these different things.
And
LAMA or the language model underlying this is basically gonna be the engine that powers that.
The reason to open source it is that, as we did with the first version, is that it basically,
unlocks a lot of innovation in the ecosystem will make our products better as well and also gives us a lot of valuable feedback on security and safety which is important for making this good but yeah i mean the the work that we're doing to advance the infrastructure it's um
it's basically at this point taking it beyond a research project into something which is ready to be kind of core infrastructure not only for our own products but um you know hopefully for for a lot of other things out there too do you think the llama or the language model underlying that version 2 will be open sourced your do you have internal debate around that the pros and cons and so on
This is, I mean, we were talking about the debates that we have internally and I think, um, I think the question is how to do it, right?
I mean, it's, I think we, you know, we, we did the research license for V1 and, and I think the, the, the big thing that we're, that we're thinking about is, is basically like, what's the, what's the right, the right way.
We released it as a research project for researchers to be able to use, but in doing so, we put it out there.
So we were very clear that anyone who uses the code and the weights doesn't have a commercial license to put into products.
And we've generally seen people respect that, right?
It's like you don't have...
any reputable companies that are basically trying to put this into their commercial products.
But yeah, but by sharing it with so many researchers, it did leave the building.
Yeah, well, I mean, I think a lot of the feedback, like I said, is just around, you know, different things around, you know, how do you fine tune models to make them more aligned and safer?
And you see all the different data recipes that, you know, you mentioned a lot of different
projects that are based on this i mean there's one at berkeley there's you know it's just like all over and um and people have tried a lot of different things and we've tried a bunch of stuff internally so kind of where we're we're making progress
but also we're able to learn from some of the best ideas in the community.
And, you know, I think it, you know, we want to just continue, continue pushing that forward, but I don't have any news to announce on, if that's, if that's what you're, you're asking.
I mean, this is a thing that we're, uh,
We're still kind of actively working through the right way to move forward here.
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting idea that I've talked to Jan about a bunch.
And we were talking about how do you basically train these models to be as safe and aligned and responsible as possible.
And different groups out there who are doing development test different data recipes and fine-tuning.
But this idea that you just mentioned is...
that at the end of the day, instead of having kind of one group fine-tune some stuff and another group produce a different fine-tuning recipe and then us trying to figure out which one we think works best to produce the most aligned model, I do think that it would be nice if you could get to a point where you had a Wikipedia-style collaborative
way for a kind of a broader community to, um, to, to fine tune it as well.
Now there's a lot of challenges in that, both from an infrastructure and like a community management and product perspective about how you do that.
So I, I haven't worked that out yet.
Um, but, but I, as an idea, I think it's, it's quite compelling and I think it, it goes well with the ethos of open sourcing.
The technology is also finding a way to have a, a kind of community driven, um,
community-driven training of it.
But I think that there are a lot of questions on this.
In general, these questions around what's the best way to produce aligned AI models, it's very much a research area.
And it's one that I think we will need to make as much progress on as the kind of core intelligence capability of the models themselves.
A lot of the time.
I mean, it's not, it has issues just like any other human system.
But yes, I mean, the balance is, I mean, it's amazing what they've been able to achieve, but it's also not perfect.
And I think that there's still a lot of challenges.
And I think that there's also a lot of questions about whether the current architecture for LLMs
as you continue scaling it, what happens?
A lot of what's been exciting in the last year
is that there's clearly a qualitative breakthrough where, you know, with some of the GPT models that OpenAI put out and that others have been able to do as well, I think it reached a kind of level of quality where people are like, wow, this feels different and like it's gonna be able to be the foundation for building a lot of awesome products and experiences and value.
But I think that the other realization that people have is, wow, we just made a breakthrough.
If there are other breakthroughs quickly, then I think that there's the sense that maybe we're closer to general intelligence.
But I think that that idea is predicated on the idea that I think people believe that there's still generally a bunch of additional breakthroughs to make and that we just don't know how long it's going to take to get there.
And one view that some people have, this doesn't tend to be my view as much, is that simply...
scaling the current LLMs and getting to higher parameter count models by itself will get to something that is closer to general intelligence.
But I don't know.
I tend to think that there's probably more fundamental steps that need to be taken along the way there.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I think that there are going to be a lot of amazing products and value that can be created with the current level of technology.
To some degree, I'm excited to work on a lot of those products over the next few years, and I think it would just create...
tremendous amount of whiplash if the number of breakthroughs keeps like if they're keep on being stacked breakthroughs because i think to some degree industry in the world needs some time to kind of build these breakthroughs into the products and experiences that we all use so we can actually benefit from them um but i don't know i think that there's just a a
like an awesome amount of stuff to do.
I mean, I think about like all of the, I don't know, small businesses or individual entrepreneurs out there who now we're going to be able to get help coding the things that they need to go build things or designing the things that they need, or we'll be able to, you know, use these models to be able to do customer support for the people that they're
that they're serving over WhatsApp without having to, you know, I think that that's, that's just going to be, I just think that this is all going to be super exciting.
It's going to create better, better experiences for people and just unlock a ton of innovation and value.
Yeah.
I think there's three main categories of things that we're working on.
Um, the first that I, that I think is probably the most interesting is, um,
you know, there's this notion of like, you're going to have an assistant or an agent who you can talk to.
And I think probably the biggest thing that's different about my view of how this plays out from what I see with OpenAI and Google and others is, you know, everyone else is building like the one singular AI, right?
It's like, okay, you talk to chat GPT or you talk to Bard or you talk to Bing.
And my view is that
That there are going to be a lot of different AIs that people are going to want to engage with, just like you want to use a number of different apps for different things.
And you have relationships with different people in your life who fill different emotional roles for you.
And so I think that they're going to be...
people have a reason that I think you don't just want like a singular AI.
And that I think is probably the biggest distinction in terms of how I think about this.
And a bunch of these things, I think you'll want an assistant.
I mean, I mentioned a couple of these before.
I think like every creator who you interact with will ultimately want some kind of AI that can proxy them and be something that their fans can interact with or that allows them to interact with their fans.
This is like the common creator promise.
Everyone's trying to build a community and engage with people and they want tools to be able to amplify themselves more and be able to do that.
But
But you only have 24 hours in a day.
So I think having the ability to basically like bottle up your personality and or, you know, like give your fans information about when you're performing a concert or something like that.
I mean, that's that I think is going to be something that's super valuable, but it's not just that.
again, it's not this idea that I think people are going to want just one singular AI.
I think you're going to want to interact with a lot of different entities.
And then I think there's the business version of this too, which we've touched on a couple of times, which is I think every business in the world is going to want basically an AI that it's like you have your page on
instagram or facebook or whatsapp or whatever and you want to you want to point people to an ai that people can interact with but you want to know that that ai is only going to sell your products you don't want it you know recommending your competitors stuff right so so it's not like there can be like just uh you know one singular ai that that can answer all the questions for a person because you know that quite like that ai might not actually be aligned with you as a business to um
to really just do the best job providing support for your product.
So I think that there's gonna be a clear need in the market and in people's lives for there to be a bunch of these.
And also just enabling people to create them really easily for your own business or if you're a creator, to be able to help you engage with your fans.
So yeah, I think that there's a clear kind of interesting product direction here that I think is...
fairly unique from what any of the other big companies are taking.
It also aligns well with this sort of open source approach because, again, we sort of believe in this more community-oriented, more democratic approach to building out the products and technology around this.
We don't think that there's going to be the one true thing.
We think that there should be kind of a lot of development.
So that part of things I think is going to be really interesting.
And we could go – probably spend a lot of time talking about that and the kind of implications of that approach being different from what others are taking.
But there's a bunch of other simpler things that I think we're also going to do.
Just going back to your question around how this finds its way into – like what do we build?
There are going to be a lot of simpler things around –
Okay, you post photos on Instagram and Facebook and WhatsApp and Messenger and you want the photos to look as good as possible.
So having an AI that you can just take a photo and then just tell it like, okay, I want to edit this thing or describe this.
It's like, I think we're going to have tools that are just way better than what we've historically had on this platform.
um and that's more in the image and media generation side than the large language model side but but it's it all kind of you know plays off of advances in the same space um so there are a lot of tools that i think are just going to get built into every one of our products i think every single thing that we do is going to basically get evolved in this direction right it's like in the future if you're advertising on our services like do you
need to make your own kind of ad creative it's no you'll just you know you just tell us okay i'm i'm a dog walker and i am willing to walk people's dogs and
help me find the right people and like create the ad unit that will perform the best and like give an objective to to the system and it just kind of like connects you with the right people well that's a super powerful idea of generating the language almost like uh rigorous ab testing for you
Yeah, totally.
And do that as efficiently as possible.
When it's done well, people actually like it.
I think that there's a lot of examples where it's not done well and it's annoying, and I think that that's what kind of gives it a bad rap.
But yeah, and a lot of this stuff is possible today.
I mean, obviously, A-B testing stuff is built into a lot of these frameworks.
The thing that's new is having technology that can generate the ideas about what to A-B test.
So I think that that's exciting.
So this will just be across like...
Everything that we're doing, right?
All the metaverse stuff that we're doing, right?
It's like you want to create worlds in the future, you'll just describe them and then it'll create the code for you.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah, I mean, I think part of the reason why creators will want to do this is because they already have the communities on our services.
Yeah.
And a lot of the interface for this stuff today are chat type interfaces.
And between WhatsApp and Messenger, I think that those are just great ways to...
to interact with people.
I think we'll get to that.
And if only just empirically looking at
Microsoft released this thing called Xiaoice several years ago in China.
It was a pre-LLM chatbot technology that was a lot simpler than what's possible today.
And I think it was like tens of millions of people were using this and just really became quite attached and built relationships with it.
And I think that there's...
There's services today like Replica where people are doing things like that.
So I think that there's certainly needs for companionship that people have, older people.
I think most people probably don't have as many friends as they would like to have.
If you look at... There's some interesting demographic studies around the average person has...
Oh, it was fun.
I don't know.
the number of close friends that they have is fewer today than it was 15 years ago.
And I mean, that gets to like, this is like the core thing that,
that I think about in terms of, you know, building services that help connect people.
Yeah, I mean, well, look, I'm a pretty competitive person.
So I think you'll get tools that help people connect with each other are going to be the primary thing that we want to do.
So you can imagine, you know, AI assistants that, you know, just do a better job of reminding you when it's your friend's birthday and how you could celebrate them.
Right.
It's like right now we have like the little box in the corner of the website that tells you whose birthday it is and stuff like that.
But it's, but you know, at some level you don't want, just want to like,
send everyone a note that says the same note saying happy birthday with an emoji right so having something that's more of an you know a a social assistant in that sense and like that can you know update you on what's going on in their life and like how how you can reach out to them effectively um help you be a better friend i think that that's something that's super powerful too um but
Yeah?
Doing sports that basically require your full attention, I think is really important to my mental health and the way I just stay focused at doing everything I'm doing.
Yeah, beyond that, and there are all these different flavors of kind of personal AIs that I think could exist.
So I think an assistant is sort of the kind of simplest one to wrap your head around, but...
I think a mentor or a life coach, someone who can give you advice, who's maybe like a bit of a cheerleader who can help pick you up through all the challenges that inevitably we all go through on a daily basis.
And that there's probably some role for something like that.
And then all the way, you can probably just go through a lot of the different type of kind of functional...
relationships that people have in their life.
And, you know, I would, I would bet that there will be companies out there that take a crack at, at, um, at a lot of these things.
So, um, I don't know.
I think it's part of the interesting innovation that's going to exist is, is that there, there are certainly a lot, um, like education tutors, right?
It's like, I mean, I just look at, you know, my kids learning to code and, you know, they love it.
Um, but you know, it's like they, they get stuck on a question and they have to wait till like,
i can help answer it right or someone else who they know can help answer the question in the future they'll just there will be like a coding assistant that they have that is like designed to you know be perfect for teaching a five and a seven year old how to code and and they'll just be able to ask questions all the time and you know be extremely patient it's never going to get annoyed at them right um
I think that there are all these different kind of relationships or functional relationships that we have in our lives that are really interesting.
So I decided to get into martial arts.
And I think one of the big questions is like, okay, is this all going to just get bucketed into one singular AI?
I just don't think so.
And it's awesome.
I got a ton of my friends into it.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's mostly good.
I mean, that question was sort of framed in a negative way, but I mean, we were talking before about language models helping you communicate with, it was like language translation helping you communicate with people who don't speak your language.
We all trained together.
I mean, at some level, what all this social technology is doing is helping people understand
We have a mini academy in my garage.
express themselves better to people in in situations where they would otherwise have a hard time doing that so part of it might be okay because you speak a language that i don't know that's a pretty basic one that you know i don't think people are going to look at that and say it's sad that do we have the capacity to do that because i should have just learned your language right i mean that's that's pretty high bar but um but overall i'd say um
There are all these impediments and language is an imperfect way for people to express thoughts and ideas.
And I guess one of my friends was like, hey, we should go do a tournament.
It's one of the best that we have.
We have that, we have art.
We have code.
We hear this all the time.
A lot of creators on our services tell us that one of the most stressful things
is basically negotiating deals with brands and stuff, like the business side of it.
Because they're like, I mean, they do their thing, right?
And, you know, the creators, they're excellent at what they do and they just want to connect with their community, but then they get really stressed.
I was like, okay, yeah, let's do it.
You know, they go into their DMs and they see some brand wants to do something with them and they don't quite know how to negotiate or how to push back respectfully.
I'm not going to shy away from a challenge like that.
And so I think building a tool that,
can actually allow them to do that well is the one simple thing that, that I think is just like an interesting thing that, that we've heard from a bunch of people that, that they'd be interested in.
But I'm going back to the broader idea.
Um,
I don't know.
So yeah, but it was awesome.
I mean, you know, I just, Priscilla and I just had our third daughter.
Congratulations, by the way.
generally have much capacity to tell you what they care about otherwise, right?
And it's not actually just babies, right?
It's, you know, my five-year-old daughter cries too because she sometimes has a hard time expressing, you know, what matters to her.
It was just a lot of fun.
And then I was thinking about that and I was like, well, you know, actually a lot of adults get very frustrated too because they have a hard time expressing things in a way that
going back to some of the early themes that maybe is something that you know is a mistake or maybe they have pride or something like all these things get in the way so i don't know i think that all these different technologies that can help us navigate the social complexity and actually be able to better express our what we're feeling and thinking i think that's generally all good and um
I don't know.
There are always these concerns like, okay, are people going to have worse memories because you have Google to look things up?
And I think in general, a generation later, you don't look back and lament that.
I think it's just like, wow, we have so much more capacity to do so much more now.
And I think that that'll be the case here too.
Oh, but that's great.
And it's also, it's not just the specific coding.
I mean, in the context of...
of a large company like this, I think before an engineer can sit down to code, they first need to figure out all of the libraries and dependencies that tens of thousands of people have written before them.
And one of the things that I'm excited about that we're working on is it's not just tools that help engineers code, it's tools that can help summarize the whole knowledge base and help people be able to navigate all the internal information.
I mean, I think that that's
In the experiments that I've done with this stuff, I mean, that's on the public stuff, you just ask...
one of these models to build you a script that does anything.
And it basically already understands what the best libraries are to do that thing and pulls them in automatically.
It's, I think that's super powerful.
That was always the most annoying part of coding was that you had to spend all this time actually figuring out what the resources were that you were supposed to import before you could actually start building the thing.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, I think it is very valuable in your life to be able to do basic things too.
Well, I think there's a few different parts of this.
So one is...
there are all these harms that we need to basically fight against and prevent.
And, and that's been, you know, a lot of our focus over the last five or seven years is basically ramping up very sophisticated AI systems, not generative AI systems, more kind of classical AI systems to be able to, you know, categorize and classify and identify, okay, this, this post looks like it's promoting terrorism.
This one is, you know, like,
exploiting children this one is um looks like it might be trying to incite violence this one's an intellectual property violation so there's there's like that's like 18 different categories of of violating kind of harmful content that we've had to build specific systems to be able to track and um i think it's certainly the case that advances in generative ai will test those um
But at least so far, it's been the case, and I'm optimistic that it will continue to be the case, that we will be able to bring more computing power to bear to have even stronger AIs that can help defend against those things.
So we've had to deal with some adversarial issues before, right?
I mean, for some things like hate speech, it's like people aren't generally getting a lot more sophisticated, like the average person.
let's say, you know, if someone's saying some kind of racist thing, right?
It's like, they're not necessarily getting more sophisticated at being racist, right?
It just, it's okay.
So that the system can just find, but then there's other adversaries who actually are very sophisticated, like nation states doing things.
And, you know, we find,
Whether it's Russia or just different countries that are basically standing up these networks of bots or inauthentic accounts is what we call them because they're not necessarily bots.
Some of them could actually be real people who are kind of masquerading as other people, but they're acting in a coordinated way.
And some of that behavior has gotten very sophisticated, and it's very adversarial.
So each iteration, every time we find something and stop them, they kind of evolve their behavior.
They don't just pack up their bags and go home and say, okay, we're not going to try.
At some point, they might decide doing it on meta services is not worth it.
They'll go do it on someone else if it's easier to do it in another place.
But we have a fair amount of experience dealing with
even those kind of adversarial attacks where they just keep on getting better and better.
And I do think that as long as we can keep on putting more compute power against it, and if we're kind of one of the leaders in developing some of these AI models, I'm quite optimistic that we're going to be able to keep on pushing against the kind of normal categories of harm that you talk about, fraud, scams, spam, IP violations, things like that.
Yeah, I mean, we have sort of this funny name for it, but we call it coordinated inauthentic behavior.
uh catalyze the virality of the narrative yeah i think there the question is you have to be i'm very specific about what is bad about it right because i think a set of people coming together or organically bouncing ideas off each other and a narrative comes out of that
is not necessarily a bad thing by itself.
If it's, if it's kind of authentic and organic, that's like a lot of what happens and how culture gets created and how art gets created and a lot of good stuff.
So that's why we've kind of focused on this sense of coordinated and authentic behavior.
So it's like, if you have a network of, you know, whether it's bots, some,
People masquerading as different accounts, but you have kind of someone pulling the strings behind it and trying to kind of act as if this is a more organic set of behavior, but really it's not.
It's just like one coordinated thing.
No.
that seems problematic to me right i mean i don't think people should be able to have coordinated networks and not disclose it as such um but that again you know we've been able to deploy pretty sophisticated ai and you know counterterrorism groups and things like that to be able to identify a fair number of these um coordinated and authentic networks of accounts and take them down um
It's 100% focus.
we continue to do that.
And I think we're, we've, you know, it's, it's one thing that if you told me 20 years ago, it's like, all right, you're starting this website to help people connect at a college.
Yeah.
To compete, I need to get around the fact that I didn't want it to be like this.
And, you know, in the future, you're going to be, you know, part of your organization is going to be a counterterrorism organization with AI to, to find coordinated and authentic.
I would have thought that was pretty wild, but, um, but, but it's, um, but no, I think that that's, that's part of where we are.
But, but look, I think that these questions that you're pushing on now, um,
This is actually where I'd guess most of the challenge around AI will be for the foreseeable future.
I think that there's a lot of debate around things like, is this going to create existential risk to humanity?
And I think that those are very hard things to disprove one way or another.
My own intuition is that the point at which we become close to superintelligence is that
this big thing.
So I basically just, I rolled up with a hat and sunglasses and I was wearing a COVID mask and I registered under my first and middle name.
And it's just really unclear to me that the current technology is going to get there without another set of significant advances.
But that doesn't mean that there's no danger.
I think the danger is basically amplifying the kind of known set of harms that people or sets of accounts can do.
And we just need to make sure that we really focus on basically doing that as well as possible.
So that's definitely a big focus for me.
Yeah, and that's a lot of the fine-tuning and the alignment training that we do is basically when we ship AIs across our products, a lot of what we're trying to make sure is that you can't ask it to help you commit a crime.
So Mark Elliott.
So I think training it to kind of understand that
And, um, and it wasn't until I actually like pulled all that stuff off right before I got on the mat that I think people knew as me.
And it's not like any of these systems are ever going to be 100% perfect, but just making it so that this isn't an easier way to go about doing something bad than the next best alternative.
I mean, people still have Google.
You still have search engines, so the information is out there.
And
For these, you know, we see is like for nation states or, you know, these actors that are trying to pull off these large, you know, coordinated and authentic networks to kind of influence different things.
At some point when we would just make it very difficult, they do just, you know, try to use other services instead, right?
It's just like if you can make it more expensive for them to do it on your service, then it's
then kind of people go elsewhere.
And I think that that's the bar, right?
It's not like, okay, are you ever going to be perfect at finding every adversary who tries to attack you?
I mean, you try to get as close to that as possible, but I think really kind of economically what you're just trying to do is make it so that it's just inefficient for them to go after that.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't want to lose.
Absolutely.
I really agree with what you're pushing on.
I mean, the core shape of the problem is that there are some harms that I think everyone agrees are bad, right?
So...
sexual exploitation of children.
You're not going to get many people who think that that type of thing should be allowed on any service.
And that's something that we face and try to push off as much as possible today.
Terrorism, inciting violence.
We went through a bunch of these types of harms before.
But then I do think that you get to a set of harms where there is more social debate around it.
So misinformation, I think, has been a really tricky one because there are things that are kind of obviously false, right?
That are maybe factual, but may not be harmful, right?
So it's like, all right, are you going to censor someone for just being wrong if there's no kind of harm implication of what they're doing?
I think that there's a bunch of real kind of issues and challenges there.
But then I think that there are other places where it is, you know, just take some of the stuff around COVID earlier on in the pandemic where there were, you know, real health implications, but there hadn't been time to fully vet a bunch of the scientific assumptions.
It's great.
And, you know, unfortunately, I think a lot of the kind of establishment on that, you know, kind of waffled on a bunch of facts and, you know, asked for a bunch of things to be censored that in retrospect ended up being, you know,
more debatable or or true and that stuff is really tough right really undermines trust and and that and um so i i do think that the questions around how to manage that are are are very nuanced the way that i try to think about it is that um
I think it's best to generally boil things down to the harms that people agree on.
So when you think about is something misinformation or not, I think often the more salient bit is, is this going to potentially lead to...
too physical harm for someone um and and kind of think about it in that sense and then beyond that i think people just have different preferences on how they want things to be flagged for them i think a bunch of people would like prefer to kind of have a a flag on something that says hey a fact checker thinks that this might be false or um i think twitter's community notes implementation is quite good on on this um
But again, it's the same type of thing.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, I just think part of learning is failing.
It's like just kind of discretionarily adding a flag because it makes the user experience better.
But it's not trying to take down the information or not.
I think that you want to reserve the kind of censorship of content to things that are of known categories that people generally agree are bad.
Right.
So, I mean, the main thing, like people who, who train jujitsu, it's like, you need to not have pride because I mean, all the stuff that you were talking about before about, you know, getting choked or getting, you know, a joint lock it's, um,
I think we... It's very difficult to just abstain, but I think we should be clear about which of these things are actual safety concerns and which ones are a matter of preference in terms of how people want information flagged.
So we did recently introduce something that allows people...
to have fact-checking not affect the distribution of what shows up in their product.
So, okay, a bunch of people don't trust who the fact-checkers are.
All right, well, you can turn that off if you want.
But if the content violates some policy, like it's inciting violence or something like that, it's still not going to be allowed.
So I think that you want to honor people's preferences on that as much as possible.
But look, I mean, this is really difficult stuff.
I think it's really hard to know where to draw the line on what is fact and what is opinion because the nature of science is that nothing is ever 100% known for certain.
You can disprove certain things, but you're constantly testing new hypotheses and scrutinizing frameworks that have been long held.
And every once in a while, you...
throw out something that was working for a very long period of time and it's very difficult but um but i think that just because it's very hard and just because they're edge cases doesn't mean that you you should not try to give people what they're looking for as well let me ask about something you've faced in terms of moderation
you only get into a bad situation if you're not willing to tap once you've already lost.
I don't know that there's like a one size fits all answer to that.
I mean, I think we basically have the principles around, you know, we want to allow people to express as much as possible, but we have developed clear categories of things that we think are wrong that we don't want on our services and we build tools to try to moderate those.
So then the question is, okay, what do you do when a government says,
that they don't want something on the service.
And I think we have a bunch of principles around how we deal with that.
Because on the one hand, if there's a democratically elected government and people around the world just have different values and different places, then should we as a California-based company
tell them that something that they have decided is unacceptable actually like
that we need to be able to, to, to, to express that.
But obviously, when you're getting started with something, you're not going to be an expert at it immediately.
I mean, I think that that's, there's a certain amount of, of hubris in that.
But then I think that there are other cases where, you know, it's, it's like a little more autocratic and, you know, you have the dictator leader who's just trying to crack down on dissent and, you know, the people in a country are really not aligned with that.
And it's not necessarily against their culture, but it's,
Um, but the, the, the person who's, who's leading it is, is just trying to push in a certain direction.
So you just need to be willing to go with that.
Um, these are very complex questions.
Uh, but I, I think, so it's, it's difficult to have, have a one size fits all, um, approach to it.
But in general, we're, we're pretty active in, in kind of advocating and pushing back on, on, um, requests to take things down.
Um,
But honestly, I think a request to censor things is one thing, and that's obviously bad.
But I think this is like, I don't know.
But where we draw a much harder line is on requests for access to information.
Because if you get told that you can't say something, that's bad.
Obviously, it violates your...
sense and freedom of expression at some level, but a government getting access to data in a way that
I mean, maybe I've just been embarrassed enough times in my life.
seems like it would be unlawful in our country, exposes people to real physical harm.
And that's something that in general we take very seriously.
And then that flows through all of our policies in a lot of ways, right?
By the time you're actually litigating with a government or pushing back on them, that's pretty late in the funnel.
I do think that there's a thing where as people grow up, maybe they don't want to be embarrassed or anything.
I'd say...
a bunch of this stuff starts a lot higher up in the decision of where do we put data centers then um there are a lot of countries where you know we may have a lot of people using the service in a place it might be you know good for the service in some ways good for those people if we could reduce the latency by having a data center nearby them but you know for whatever reason we just feel like hey this government does not have a good track record on on um
basically not trying to get access to people's data.
And at the end of the day, I mean, if you put a data center in a country and the government wants to get access to people's data, then they do, at the end of the day, have the option of having people show up with guns and taking it by force.
So I think that there's a lot of decisions that go into how you architect the systems years in advance of these actual...
They've built their adult identity and they kind of have a sense of who they are.
confrontations that end up being really important.
So you put the protection of people's data as a very, very high priority.
There are more harms that I think can be associated with that.
And I think that that ends up being a more critical thing to defend against governments.
Whereas if another government has a different view of what should be acceptable speech in their country,
especially if it's a democratically elected government, then I think that there's a certain amount of deference that you should have to that.
they are and what they want to project.
And I dunno, I think maybe to some degree, you know,
You know, I've seen it.
It's really hard from the outside to know exactly what happened in each of these cases.
You know, we've obviously been
In a bunch of our own cases where agencies or different folks will just say, hey, here's a threat that we're aware of.
You should be aware of this too.
It's not really pressure as much as it is just...
flagging something that our security systems should be on alert about.
I get how some people could think of it as that, but at the end of the day, it's our call on how to handle that.
your ability to keep doing interesting things is your willingness to be embarrassed again and go back to step one and start as a beginner and get your ass kicked and, you know, look stupid doing things.
But I mean, I just, in terms of running these services, won't have access to as much information about what people think that adversaries might be trying to do as possible.
I guess what I'd say is there's so much pressure from all sides that I'm not sure that any specific thing that someone says is really adding that much more to the mix.
There are obviously a lot of people who think that...
that we should be censoring more content, or there are a lot of people who think we should be censoring less content.
There are, as you say, all kinds of different groups that are involved in these debates, right?
So there's the kind of elected officials and politicians themselves, there's the agencies, but I mean, but there's the media, there's activist groups, there's, this is not a US specific thing, there are groups all over the world and kind of all in every country that bring different values.
So it's a very active debate and I understand it.
These kind of questions get to really some of the most important social debates that are being had.
So it gets back to the question of truth because
for a lot of these things they haven't yet been hardened into a single truth and um society's sort of trying to hash out what um you know what we think right on on on certain issues maybe in a few hundred years everyone will look back and say hey no it wasn't it obvious that it should have been this but you know no we're we're kind of in the in that meat grinder now and you know and and and working through that so um so no these are these are all are all very complicated and
some people raise concerns in good faith and just say, hey, this is something that I want to flag for you to think about.
Certain people, I certainly think, come at things with somewhat of a more kind of punitive or vengeful view of like, I want you to do this thing.
If you don't, then I'm going to try to make your life difficult in a lot of other ways.
And, you know, I think so many of the things that we're doing, whether it's, whether it's this, I mean, this is just like a, a kind of a physical part of my life, but, um, but at running the company, it's like, we, we just take on new adventures and, um,
But like,
I don't know.
This is one of the most pressurized debates, I think, in society.
So I just think that there are so many people and different forces that are trying to apply pressure from different sides.
I don't think you can make decisions based on trying to make people happy.
I think you just have to do what you think is the right balance and accept that people are going to be upset no matter where you come out on that.
So, yeah, I mean, I've probably gotten a somewhat more nuanced view just because I think that there are, you know, I come at this, I'm obviously very pro freedom of expression, right?
I don't think you build a service like this that gives people tools to express themselves unless you think that people expressing themselves at scale is a good thing, right?
So I didn't get into this to like try to prevent people from expressing anything.
I like want to give people tools so they can express as much as possible, right?
And then I think it's become clear that there are certain categories of things that we've talked about that I think almost everyone accepts are bad and that no one wants and that are illegal, even in countries like the US where you have the First Amendment that's very protective of enabling speech.
It's like you're still not allowed to do things that are going to immediately incite violence or violate people's intellectual property or things like that.
So there are those, but then there's also a very active core of
just active disagreements in society where some people may think that something is true or false the other side might think it's the opposite or just unsettled right and um and those are some of the most difficult to to kind of handle like like we've talked about but um one of the lessons that i feel like i've learned is that a lot of times when you can
the best way to handle this stuff more practically is not in terms of answering the question of should this be allowed, but just like what is the best way to deal with someone being a jerk?
All the big things that we're doing, I think of as like 10 plus year missions that we're on where often early on, people doubt that we're going to be able to do it.
Is the person basically just having a like repeat behavior of like causing a lot of issues?
So looking at it more at that level,
That's true.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
No, I think you, and I think you want to be careful about that.
I'm not sure I'm expressing this very, very clearly.
Um,
because I certainly agree with your point there.
And my point isn't that we should not have people on our services that are being controversial.
That's certainly not what I mean to say.
It's that often I think
it's not just looking at a specific example of speech that it's most effective to handle this stuff.
And I think often you don't want to make specific binary decisions of kind of this is allowed or this isn't.
I mean, we talked about
You know, it's fact-checking or Twitter's community voices thing.
I think that's another good example.
It's like, it's not a question of, is this allowed or not?
It's just a question of adding more context to the thing.
And the initial work seems kind of silly.
And I think that that's helpful.
So in the context of AI, which is what you were asking about, I think there are lots of ways that an AI can be helpful, right?
With an AI, it's less about censorship, right?
And it's more about what is the most productive answer to a question.
There was one case study that I was reviewing with the team is someone asked, can you explain to me how to 3D print a gun?
And our whole ethos is we don't want to wait until something is perfect to put it out there.
Mm-hmm.
one proposed response is like, no, I can't talk about that, right?
It's like basically just like shut it down immediately, which I think is some of what you see.
It's like as a large language model, I'm not allowed to talk about, you know, whatever.
But there's another response, which is like, hey, you know, I don't think that's a good idea.
And a lot of countries, including the US, 3D printing guns is illegal or kind of whatever the factual thing is.
We want to get it out quickly and get feedback on it.
And it's like, okay, you know, that's actually a respectful and informative answer.
And, you know, I may have not known that specific thing.
And so there are different ways to handle this that I think kind of you can either assume good intent
Like maybe the person didn't know and I'm just going to help educate them.
Or you could like kind of come at it as like, no, I need to shut this thing down immediately.
Right.
It's like, I just am not going to talk about this.
Like, and there will be times where you need to do that.
And so I don't know.
But I actually think having a,
somewhat more informative approach where you generally assume good intent from people is probably a better balance to be on as many things as you can be you're not able to do that for everything but but i but that you're kind of asking about how i approach this and i'm thinking about this and as it relates to to ai and i think that that's a that's a big difference and and kind of how how to handle um sensitive content across these different modes
I mean, there's probably just something about how I approach things in there.
But I just kind of think that the moment that you decide that you're going to be too embarrassed to try something new, then you're not going to learn anything anymore.
There is a project.
You know, I've always thought that sort of a text-based kind of information utility is just a really important thing to society.
And for whatever reason, I feel like Twitter has not lived up to what I would have thought its full potential should be.
And I think that the current, you know, I think Elon thinks that, right?
And that's probably one of the reasons why he bought it.
And...
I do think that there are ways to consider alternative approaches to this.
And one that I think is potentially interesting is this open and federated approach where you're seeing with Mastodon, you're seeing that a little bit with Blue Sky.
And I think that it's possible that something that melds some of those ideas with the graph and identity system that people have already cultivated on Instagram is
could be a a kind of very welcome contribution to that space but i know we work on a lot of things all the time though too so i don't want to get a get a get ahead of myself and we we have we have projects that explore a lot of different things and this is certainly one that i think could be interesting but so what's the uh release the launch date of that again or uh yeah what's the official website and uh
Well, we don't have that yet.
But I, um, and, and look, I mean, I don't know exactly how this is going to turn out.
I mean, what I, what I can say is, yeah, there's, there's some people working on this, right?
I think that there's something there that, that, um, that's interesting to explore.
Well, I think text is very accessible for people to transmit ideas and to have back and forth exchanges.
So it, I think, ends up being a good way
a good format for discussion in a lot of ways, uniquely good, right?
If you look at some of the other formats or other networks that are focused on one type of content, like TikTok is obviously huge, right?
And there are comments on TikTok, but I think the architecture of the service is very clearly that you have the video is the primary thing and there's comments after that.
But I think...
One of the unique pieces of having text-based content is that the comments can also be first class.
And that makes it so that conversations can just filter and fork into all these different directions in a way that can be super useful.
So I think there's a lot of things that are really awesome about the experience.
stressful moments big decision days big decision moments how do you deal with that fear how do you deal with that anxiety the thing that stresses me out the most is always is always the people challenges you know i kind of think that um you know strategy questions you know i tend to have enough conviction around the values of what we're trying to do and
It just always struck me...
I always thought that Twitter should have a billion people using it or whatever the thing is that basically ends up being in that space.
And for whatever combination of reasons, again, these companies are complex organisms and it's very hard to diagnose this stuff from the outside.
Well, I just think it's hard to build these companies.
So it's not that every idea automatically goes and gets a billion people.
It's just that I think that that idea, coupled with good execution, should get there.
But I mean, look, we hit certain thresholds over time where...
You know, we kind of plateaued early on and it wasn't clear that we were ever going to reach 100 million people on Facebook.
And then we got really good at dialing in internationalization and helping the service grow in different countries.
And that was like a whole competence that we needed to develop.
And...
and helping people basically spread the service to their friends.
That was one of the things, once we got very good at that, that was one of the things that made me feel like, hey, if Instagram joined us early on, then I felt like we could help grow that quickly.
And same with WhatsApp.
And I think that that's sort of been a core competence that we've developed and been able to execute on.
And others have too, right?
I mean, ByteDance obviously have done a very good job with TikTok and have reached more than a billion people there.
But it's certainly not automatic, right?
I think you need a certain level of execution to basically get there.
And I think for whatever reason, I think Twitter has this great idea and sort of magic in the service, but they just haven't kind of cracked that piece yet.
And I think that that's made it so that you're seeing all these other things, whether it's Mastodon or...
um or or blue sky um that that i think are you know maybe just different different cuts of the same thing but you know i think through the last generation of of um social media overall one of the interesting experiments that i think should get run at larger scale is what happens if there's somewhat more decentralized control and if it's like the stack is more open throughout and um i've just been pretty fascinated by that and seeing how that works um
To some degree, end-to-end encryption on WhatsApp and as we bring it to other services provides an element of it because it pushes the service really out to the edges.
I mean, the server part of this that we run for WhatsApp is relatively very thin compared to what we do on Facebook or Instagram.
And much more of the complexity is in how the apps kind of negotiate with each other to pass information in a fully end-to-end encrypted way.
But I don't know.
I think that that is a good model.
I think it puts more power in individuals' hands, and there are a lot of benefits of it if you can make it happen.
Again, this is all pretty speculative.
I mean, I think that it's hard from the outside to know why anything does or doesn't work until you kind of take a run at it.
And so I think it's kind of an interesting thing to experiment with, but I don't really know where this one's going to go.
what I think matters and what I want our company to stand for, that those don't really keep me up at night that much.
Gosh, it's always very difficult to offer specific critiques from the outside before you get into this.
Because I think one thing that I've learned is that everyone has opinions on what you should do.
And like running the company, you see a lot of specific nuances on things that are not apparent externally.
And I often...
think that some of the discourse around us would be could be better if if there was more kind of space for acknowledging that there's certain things that we're seeing internally that guide what we're doing but um but i don't know i mean because since you asked what what is what is going well um
You know, I do think that Elon led a push early on to make Twitter a lot leaner.
And I think that that, you know, it's like you can agree or disagree with exactly all the tactics and how we did that.
I mean, I kind of, you know, it's not that I get everything right.
You know, obviously, you know, every leader has their own style for if they, you know, if you need to make dramatic changes for that, how you're going to execute it.
But
A lot of the specific principles that he pushed on around basically trying to make the organization more technical, around decreasing the distance between engineers of the company and him, like fewer layers of management.
Of course I don't, right?
I think that those were generally good changes.
And I'm also... I also think that it was probably good for the industry that he made those changes because my sense is that there were a lot of other people who thought that those were good changes, but who may have been a little shy about...
I mean, we make a lot of mistakes, but I at least have a pretty strong sense of where I want us to go on that.
doing them.
And I think he, just in my conversations with other founders and how people have reacted to the things that we've done, what I've heard from a lot of folks is just, hey, when someone like you, when I wrote the letter outlining the organizational changes that I wanted to make back in March, and when people see what Elon is doing, I think that that gives people a
the ability to think through how to shape their organizations in a way that, um, that, that, you know, hopefully can, can be good for the industry and make all these companies more productive over time.
So, um, something that that was one where I think he was, um, quite ahead of, of a bunch of the, the other companies on and, and, and,
you know what he was doing there and again from the outside very hard to know it's like okay did he did he cut too much did he knock enough whatever i i don't think it's like my place to opine on that um and and you asked for a for a positive framing of the question of of what what do i um what do i admire what do i think it went well but i i think that like certainly his actions um
led me and i think a lot of other folks in the industry to think about hey are we are we kind of doing this as much as we should like can we is like could we make our companies better by pushing on some of these same principles
The thing in running a company for almost 20 years now, one of the things that's been pretty clear is when you have
Yeah, I mean, that's it.
And that's it.
I mean, it's, and you basically have a significant number of people who, you know, this is just not the end of their time at Meta that they or, or I, you know, would have hoped for when they joined the company.
And,
I mean, running a company, people are constantly joining and leaving the company for different directions, but for different reasons.
And layoffs are uniquely challenging and tough in that you have a lot of people leaving
for reasons that aren't connected to their own performance or the culture not being a fit at that point.
team that's cohesive, you can get almost anything done.
It's really just, it's a kind of strategy decision and sometimes financially required.
But not fully in our case, especially on the changes that we made this year.
A lot of it was more kind of culturally and strategically driven by this push where I wanted us to become a stronger technology company with more of a focus on building more technical and more of a focus on building higher quality products faster.
And I just view the external world as quite volatile right now.
And I wanted to make sure that we had a stable position to be able to continue investing in these long-term ambitious projects that we have around continuing to push AI forward and continuing to push forward all the metaverse work.
And in order to do that in light of the
pretty big thrash that we had seen over the last 18 months you know some of it macroeconomic induced some of it specific some of it competitively induced some of it just because of bad decisions right or things that we got wrong and
And you can run through super hard challenges.
um i don't know i just i decided that we needed to get to a point where we were a lot leaner and but look i mean but then okay it's it's one thing to do that to like decide that at a high level then the question is how do you execute that as compassionately as possible and there's no good way um there's no perfect way for sure and it's it's it's gonna be tough no matter what but i i
as a leadership team here, we've certainly spent a lot of time just thinking, okay, given that this is a thing that sucks, what is the most compassionate way that we can do this?
You can make hard decisions and push really hard to do the best work even and kind of optimize something super well.
And that's what we've tried to do.
Yeah, I mean, I wanted to
I want to empower engineers more, the people who are building things, the technical teams.
Part of that is making sure that the people who are building things aren't just at like the leaf nodes of the organization.
I don't want like,
eight levels of management and then the people actually doing the work.
So we made changes to make it so that you have individual contributor engineers reporting at almost every level up the stack, which I think is important because you're running a company.
One of the big questions is latency of information that you get.
We talked about this a bit earlier in terms of kind of the joy of
in the feedback that you get doing something like jujitsu compared to running a long-term project.
But I actually think part of the art of running a company is trying to constantly re-engineer it so that your feedback loops get shorter so you can learn faster.
And part of the way that you do that is by, I kind of think that every layer that you have in the organization
um, means that information might not need to get reviewed before it goes to you.
And I think, you know, making it so that the people doing the work are as close as possible to you as possible is, is, uh, is pretty important.
But when there's that tension, I mean, that's when things get really tough.
So there's that.
I mean, I think over time companies just build up very large support functions that are not doing the kind of core technical work.
And those functions are very important, but I think having them in the right proportion is, is important.
And if, um,
if you, you try to do good work, but you don't have, you know, the right, you know, marketing team or, um, or the right legal advice, like you're gonna, you know, make some pretty big blunders, but, um, but at the same time, if you have, you know, if, if you just like have too big of, of, of things and some of these support roles, then that might make it so that things are just move a lot.
And
Um, and,
Maybe you're too conservative or you move a lot slower than you should otherwise.
You know, when I talk to other friends who run other companies and things like that, I think one of the things that I actually spend a disproportionate amount of time on in running this company is just fostering a pretty tight core group of people who are running the company with me.
Those are just examples.
Yeah, but it's a constant equilibrium that you're searching for.
Well, I mean, I believe a lot in management.
I think there are some people who think that it doesn't matter as much.
But look, I mean, we have a lot of younger people at the company for whom this is their first job.
And people need to grow and learn in their career.
And I think that all that stuff is important.
But here's one mathematical way to look at it.
You know, at the beginning of this, we...
I asked our people team, what was the average number of reports that a manager had?
And I think it was around three, maybe three to four, but closer to three.
I was like, wow, like a manager can, you know, best practices that person can manage, you know, seven or eight people.
But there was a reason why it was closer to three.
It was because we were growing so quickly, right?
And when you're hiring so many people so quickly, then that means that you need managers who have capacity to onboard new people.
And also, if you have a new manager, you may not want to have them have seven direct reports immediately because you want them to ramp up.
But...
The thing is going forward, I don't want us to actually hire that many people that quickly, right?
So I actually think we'll just do better work if we have more constraints and we're leaner as an organization.
So in a world where we're not adding so many people as quickly,
is it as valuable to have a lot of managers who have extra capacity waiting for new people?
No, right?
So now we can sort of defragment the organization and get to a place where the average is closer to that seven or eight.
And it just ends up being a somewhat more kind of compact management structure, which decreases the latency on information going up and down the chain and I think empowers people more.
But I mean, that's an example that I think it doesn't kind of undervalue
importance of management and the kind of the personal growth or coaching that people need in order to do their jobs well.
It's just, I think, realistically, we're just not going to hire as many people going forward.
So I think that you need a different structure.
Well, you're asking how you select or how you attract them?
And that to me is kind of the thing that...
And have a track record that people think you're actually going to be able to do it.
So there are lots of different cuts on this question.
I mean, I think...
When an organization is growing quickly, one of the big questions that teams face is, do I hire this person who's in front of me now because they seem good?
both makes it fun, right?
Or do I hold out to get someone who's even better?
Having friends and people you've worked with for a while and new people and new perspectives, but like a pretty tight group who you can go work on some of these crazy things with.
And the heuristic that I always...
focused on for myself and my own kind of direct hiring that I think works when you recurse it through the organization is that you should only hire someone to be on your team if you would be happy working for them in an alternate universe.
That kind of works, and that's basically how I've tried to build my team.
I'm not in a rush to not be running the company, but I think in an alternate universe where one of these other folks was running the company, I'd be happy to work for them.
I feel like I'd learn from them.
I respect their general judgment.
They're all very insightful.
They have good values.
And I think that that gives you some rubric for, you can apply that at every layer.
And I think if you apply that at every layer in the organization, then you'll have a pretty strong organization.
Okay, in an organization that's not growing as quickly, the questions might be a little different though.
And there, you asked about young people specifically, like people out of college.
And one of the things that we see is it's a pretty basic lesson, but like we have a much better sense of who the best people are who have interned at the company for a couple of months than by looking at them at kind of a resume or a short resume.
I mean, obviously the in-person feel that you get from someone probably tells you more than the resume and you can do some basic skills assessment, but a lot of the stuff really just is cultural.
People thrive in different environments and on different teams, even within a specific company.
But to me, that's also the most stressful thing is when there's tension, you know, that weighs on me.
And it's like the people who come for even a short period of time over a summer who do a great job here, you know that they're going to be great if they came and joined full-time.
And that's one of the reasons why we've invested so much in internship is basically it's a very useful sorting function both for us and for the people who want to try out the company.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a thing that's here to stay.
But I think that there's value in both, right?
I wouldn't want to run a fully remote company.
Yet, at least.
I think there's an asterisk on that, which is that... Some of the other stuff you're working on, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
It's like all the metaverse work and the ability to feel like you're truly present no matter where you are.
I think once you have that all dialed in, then we may one day reach a point where it really just doesn't matter as much where you are physically.
I think the, you know, just it's maybe not surprising.
But...
I don't know, today it still does, right?
So yeah, for people who, there are all these people who have special skills and want to live in a place where we don't have an office.
Are we better off having them at the company?
Absolutely, right?
And are a lot of people who work at the company for several years and then build up the relationships internally, right?
I mean, we're like a very people-focused company and it's the people is the part of it that
and kind of have the trust and have a sense of how the company works.
Can they go work remotely now if they want and still do it as effectively?
And we've done all these studies that show it's like, okay, does that affect their performance?
It does not.
Um, but you know, for the new folks who are joining, um, and for people who are earlier in their career and, you know, need to learn how to solve certain problems and need to get ramped up on the culture, um,
when you're working through really complicated problems where you don't just want the formal meeting, but you want to be able to like brainstorm when you're walking in the hallway together after the meeting.
I don't know, it's like we just haven't replaced the kind of in-person dynamics there yet with anything remote yet.
So
that weighs on me the most to make sure that we get right.
But yeah, that I'd say across everything that we do is probably the big thing.
There are basically two big new things that we've added to Quest 3 over Quest 2.
The first is high resolution mixed reality.
And the basic idea here is that you can think about virtual reality as you have the headset and all the pixels are virtual and you're basically immersed in a different world.
Mixed reality is where you see the physical world around you and you can place virtual objects in it, whether that's a screen to watch a movie or a projection of your virtual desktop, or you're playing a game where like zombies are coming out through the wall and you need to shoot them.
Um, or, you know, we're, you know, we're playing dungeons and dragons or some board game and we just have a virtual version of the board in front of us while we're sitting here.
Um,
All that's possible in mixed reality.
And I think that that is going to be the next big capability on top of virtual reality.
I'm super excited about it.
I mean, we put a lot of work into making...
the device both as good as possible and as affordable as possible.
Because a big part of our mission and ethos here is we want people to be able to connect with each other.
We wanna reach and we wanna serve a lot of people, right?
We wanna bring this technology to everyone, right?
So we're not just trying to serve like a...
you know an elite a wealthy crowd we we want to um we really want this to be accessible so that that is in a lot of ways an extremely hard technical problem because you know we don't just have the ability to put an unlimited amount of hardware and thus we needed to basically deliver something that works really well but in an affordable package and we started with quest pro last year it was um
It was $1,500, and now we've lowered the price to $1,000.
But in a lot of ways, the mixed reality in Quest 3 is an even better and more advanced level than what we were able to deliver in Quest Pro.
So I'm really proud of where we are with Quest 3 on that.
it's going to work with all of the virtual reality titles and everything that, that existed there.
So people who want to play fully immersive games, social experiences, fitness, all that stuff will, will work, but now you'll also get mixed reality too.
Um,
Which I think people really like because sometimes you want to be super immersed in a game.
But a lot of the time, especially when you're moving around, if you're active, like you're doing some fitness experience.
Let's say you're doing boxing or something.
It's like you kind of want to be able to see the room around you.
So that way you know that I'm not going to punch a lamp or something like that.
And I don't know if you got to play with this experience, but we basically have the, and it's just sort of like a fun little demo that we put together, but it's like you just, you know, we're like in a conference room or your living room and you have the guy there and you're boxing him and you're fighting him and it's like,
Yeah.
And so I think it's a completely new capability that will unlock a lot of different content.
And I think it'll also just make the experience more comfortable for a set of people who didn't want to have only fully immersive experiences.
I think if you want experiences where you're grounded in your living room and the physical world around you, now you'll be able to have that too.
And I think that that's pretty exciting.
Yeah.
Me as a person.
Did you see the aquarium one where you could see the sharks swim up or was that just the zombie one?
You don't necessarily want windows added to your living room where zombies come out of, but yeah, so the context of that game, it's yeah, yeah, yeah.
There will probably be better, more zen ways to do that than the Zelda game you're describing.
But you're right that the basic idea of sort of having your physical environment on pass-through, but then being able to bring in different elements, I think it's going to be super powerful.
And in some ways, I think that these are...
Mixed reality is also a predecessor to eventually we will get AR glasses that are not kind of the goggles form factor of the current generation of headsets that people are making.
But I think a lot of the experiences that developers are making for mixed reality of basically you just have a kind of a hologram that you're putting in the world will hopefully apply once we get the AR glasses too.
Now that's got its own whole set of challenges and it's...
And the other thing that I think is good about it, yeah, so mixed reality was the first big thing.
The second is it's just a great VR headset.
I mean, it's got 2X the graphics processing power, 40% sharper screens, 40% thinner, more comfortable.
better strap architecture, all this stuff that, you know, if you liked Quest 2, I think that this is just going to be, it's like all the content that you might've played in Quest 2 is just going to get sharper automatically and look better in this.
So it's, I think people are really going to like it.
Yeah, I mean, I think for one thing, it's just spending a lot of time with whatever the group is that you want to be that core group, grappling with all of the biggest challenges.
Yeah.
So this fall.
Well, I saw the materials when they launched.
I haven't gotten a chance to play with it yet.
So kind of take everything with a grain of salt.
But a few high-level thoughts.
I mean, first, you know, I do think that this is
certain level of validation for the category right where you know we were the primary folks out there before saying hey i think that this you know virtual reality augmented reality mixed reality this is going to be a big part of the next computing platform um i think having apple come in and share that vision um
will make a lot of people who are fans of their products really consider that.
And then, you know, of course the $3,500 price,
on the one hand, I get it with all the stuff that they're trying to pack in there.
On the other hand, a lot of people aren't going to find that to be affordable.
So I think that there's a chance that them coming in actually increases demand for the overall space and that Quest 3 is actually the primary beneficiary of that because a lot of the people who might say, hey, I think I'm going to give another consideration to this or
know now i understand maybe what mixed reality is more and in quest 3 is the best one on the market that i can that i can afford um and it's great also right it's i think that that's um and you know in our own way i think we're and there are a lot of features that we have where we're leading on um so i i think that that's that that i think is going to be a very that could be quite good um
And that requires a fair amount of openness.
And then obviously over time, the companies are just focused on somewhat different things, right?
Apple has always, um, you know, I think focused on building really kind of high end things.
Whereas our focus has been on, it's, it's just a, we have a more democratic ethos.
And, you know, so I mean, a lot of how I run the company is, you know, it's like every Monday morning, we get our, it's about the top 30 people together.
We want to build things that are accessible to a wider number of people.
Um, you know, we've sold tens of millions of quest devices.
Um,
My understanding, just based on rumors, I don't have any special knowledge on this, is that Apple is building about 1 million of their device, right?
So just in terms of what you kind of expect in terms of sales numbers, I just think that this is...
I mean, Quest is going to be the primary thing that people in the market will continue using for the foreseeable future.
And then obviously over the long term, it's up to the companies to see how well we executed the different things that we're doing.
But we kind of come at it from different places.
We're very focused on social interaction, communication, being more active, right?
So there's fitness, there's gaming, there are those things.
Whereas I think a lot of the use cases that you saw in Apple's launch material were more around people sitting, people looking at screens, which are great.
I think that you will replace your laptop over time with a headset.
And we...
But I think in terms of kind of how the different use cases that the companies are going after, they're a bit different for where we are right now.
Well, I mean, look, there are certain design trade-offs in this where...
You know, they made this point about not wanting to have controllers, which on the one hand, there's a certain elegance about just being able to navigate the system with eye gaze and hand tracking.
This is a group that just worked together for a long period of time.
And by the way, you'll be able to just navigate Quest with your hands too, if that's what you want.
Yeah.
The hand tracking in, in quest three and the, and the controller tracking is, is a big step up from, from the last generation.
People rotate in.
Um,
I mean, one of the demos that we have is basically an MR experience teaching you how to play piano, where it basically highlights the notes that you need to play and it's like, it's hands, it's no controllers.
New people join.
But I think if you care about gaming, having a controller allows you to have a more tactile feel and allows you to capture
fine motor movement much more precisely than um than what you can do with hands without something that you're touching so again i think it's there there are certain questions which are just around what use cases are you optimizing for um
People leave the company.
People go do other roles in the company.
I think if you wanna play games, then I think you wanna design the system in a different way and we're more focused on kind of social experiences, entertainment experiences.
It's not the same group over time.
Whereas if what you want is to make sure that the text that you read on a screen is as crisp as possible,
then you need to make the design and cost trade-offs that they made that lead you to making a $3,500 device.
So I think that there is a use case for that for sure, but I just think that the companies, we've basically made different design trade-offs to get to the use cases that we're trying to serve.
We spend a lot of times a couple of hours.
Yeah, I'm excited to talk about that too.
A lot of the time, it can be somewhat unstructured.
Anytime where there's a number of serious people who are raising a concern that is that existential about something that you're involved with, I think you have to think about it, right?
I'll come with maybe a few topics that are top of mind for me, but
So I've spent quite a bit of time thinking about it from that perspective.
The thing where I basically have come out on this for now is I do think that there are
Over time, I think that we need to think about this even more as we approach something that could be closer to superintelligence.
I just think it's pretty clear to anyone working on these projects today that we're not there.
And one of my concerns is that we spent a fair amount of time on this before, but there are more –
I don't know if mundane is the right word, but there's concerns that already exist about people using AI tools to do harmful things of the type that we're already aware, whether we talked about fraud or scams or different things like that.
I'll ask other people to bring things and people raise questions, whether it's, okay, there's an issue happening in some country with some policy issue.
And that's going to be a pretty big set of challenges that the companies working on this are going to need to grapple with.
Regardless of whether there is an existential concern as well at some point down the road.
So I do worry that to some degree people can get a little too focused on
on some of the tail risk and then not do as good of a job as we need to on the things that you can be almost certain are going to come down the pipe as real risks that kind of manifest themselves in the near term.
So for me, I've spent most of my time on that once I kind of made
The realization that the size of models that we're talking about now in terms of what we're building are quite far from the superintelligence type concerns that people raise.
But I think once we get a couple steps closer to that, I know as we do get closer, I think that there are going to be some novel risks and issues about how we make sure that the systems are safe, for sure.
I guess here, just to take the conversation in a somewhat different direction,
I think in some of these debates around safety, I think the concepts of intelligence and autonomy or the being of the thing, as an analogy, they get kind of conflated together.
There's a new technology that's developing here.
And I think it very well could be the case that you can make something and scale intelligence quite far, but that...
We're having an issue with this partner.
That may not manifest the safety concerns that people are saying in the sense that, I mean, just if you look at human biology, it's like, all right, we have our neocortex is where all the thinking happens, right?
But it's not really calling the shots at the end of the day.
We have a much more primitive old brain structure for which our neocortex, which is this powerful machinery, is basically just a kind of prediction and reasoning engine to help
It kind of... Like, our very simple brain decide...
There's a design trade-off and WhatsApp between two things that end up being values that we care about deeply and we need to
how to plan and do what it needs to do in order to achieve these like very kind of basic impulses.
And I think that you can think about some of the development of intelligence along the same lines where just like our neocortex doesn't have free will or autonomy, we might develop these wildly intelligent systems that are much more
more intelligent than our neocortex have much more capacity, but in the same way that our neocortex is sort of subservient and is used as a tool by our kind of simple impulse brain, I think that it's not out of the question that very intelligent systems that have the capacity to think will kind of act as that as sort of an extension of the neocortex doing that.
So I think my own view is that
where we really need to be careful is on the development of autonomy and how we think about that.
Because it's actually the case that relatively simple and unintelligent things that have runaway autonomy and just spread themselves or, you know, it's like, we have a word for that, it's a virus, right?
I mean, like it can be simple computer code that is not particularly intelligent, but just spreads itself and does a lot of harm.
biologically or computer.
And I just think that these are somewhat separable things.
kind of decide where we want to be on that.
And a lot of what I think we need to develop when people talk about safety and responsibility is really the governance on the autonomy that can be given to systems.
And I just think over time, by working through a lot of issues with people and doing it openly, people develop an intuition for each other and a bond and camaraderie.
And to me, if I were...
a policymaker or thinking about this, I would really want to think about that distinction between these, where I think building intelligent systems can create a huge advance in terms of people's quality of life and productivity growth in the economy.
But it's the autonomy part of this that I think we really need to make progress on how to govern these things responsibly before we
build the capacity for them to make a lot of decisions on their own or give them goals or things like that.
And I know that's a research problem, but I do think that to some degree, these are somewhat separable things.
What a question.
I mean, look, I think realistically, this gets back to the open source things that we talked about before, which is I don't think that the world will be best served by any small number of organizations having this without it being something that is more broadly available.
And I think if you look through history...
And to me, developing that is like a lot of the fun part of running a company or doing anything, right?
it's when there are these sort of like unipolar advances and things and like power imbalances that they're doing to being kind of weird situations.
So this is one of the reasons why I think open source is generally
the right approach.
And, you know, I think it's a, it's a categorically different question today when we're not close to super intelligence.
I think that there's a good chance that even once we get closer to super intelligence, open sourcing remains the right approach, even though I think at that point it's a somewhat different debate.
Um,
But I think part of that is that that is, you know, I think one of the best ways to ensure that the system is as secure and safe as possible.
Because it's not just about a lot of people having access to it.
It's the scrutiny that kind of comes with building an open source system.
I think that this is a pretty widely accepted thing about open source is that...
You have the code out there, so anyone can see the vulnerabilities.
Anyone can kind of mess with it in different ways.
People can spin off their own projects and experiment in a ton of different ways.
And the net result of all of that is that the systems just get hardened and get to be a lot safer and more secure.
I think it's like having people who are kind of along on the journey that you feel like you're doing it with.
So I think that there's a chance that that ends up being the way that this goes to, a pretty good chance, and that...
Having this be open both leads to a healthier development of the technology and also leads to a more balanced distribution of the technology in a way that strike me as good values to aspire to.
Nothing is ever just one person doing it.
Yeah, and to be clear, I feel quite confident in the assessment that open sourcing models now is net positive.
I think there's a good argument that in the future it will be too, even as you get closer to superintelligence.
But I certainly have not decided on that yet.
And I think that it becomes a somewhat more complex set of questions that I think people will have time to debate and will also be informed by what happens between now and then to make those decisions.
We don't have to necessarily just debate that in theory right now.
i don't know i mean that's pure speculation i think it's uh i think it's very clear just taking a step back that we had a big breakthrough in the last year yes right where the the llms and diffusion models basically reached a a scale where they're able to do some some pretty interesting things and then i think the question is what happens from here and just to paint the two extremes on the um
on one side it's like okay we just had one breakthrough if we just have like another breakthrough like that or maybe two then we can have something that's truly crazy right and and is like is um just like so much more advanced and and on that side of the argument it's like okay well maybe we're um
Maybe we're only a couple of big steps away from reaching something that looks more like general intelligence.
Okay, that's one side of the argument.
And the other side, which is what we've historically seen a lot more, is that a breakthrough leads to...
In that Gartner hype cycle, there's the hype and then there's the trough of disillusionment after when people think that there's a chance that, hey, okay, there's a big breakthrough.
Maybe we're about to get another big breakthrough.
And it's like, actually, you're not about to get another breakthrough.
Maybe you're actually just gonna have to sit with this one for a while.
And it could be...
It could be five years.
It could be 10 years.
It could be 15 years until you figure out the kind of the next big thing that needs to get figured out.
But I think that the fact that we just had this breakthrough sort of makes it so that we're at a point of almost a very wide error bars on what happens next.
I think the traditional technical view, like looking at the industry, would suggest that we're not just going to stack
in a like breakthrough on top of breakthrough on top of breakthrough, like every six months or something right now, I think it will guessing, I would guess that it will, that it will take somewhat longer in between these, but, um,
Everything.
Everything.
I don't know.
I tend to be pretty optimistic about breakthroughs too.
So I mean, so I think if you normalized for my normal optimism, then maybe it would be even slower than what I'm saying.
But even within that, like I'm not even opining on the question of how many breakthroughs are required to get to general intelligence because no one knows.
Sure.
So I still don't think I have any particular insight on when a singular AI system that is a general intelligence will get created.
But I think the one thing that most people...
in the discourse that I've seen about this haven't really grappled with is that we do seem to have
organizations and structures in the world that exhibit greater than human intelligence already.
So one example is a company.
It acts as an entity.
It has a singular brand.
Obviously, it's a collection of people.
But I certainly hope that Meta, with tens of thousands of people, makes smarter decisions than one person.
But I think that that would be pretty bad if it didn't.
I mean...
Another example that I think is even more removed from kind of the way we think about like the personification of intelligence, which is often implied in some of these questions, is think about something like the stock market, right?
probably millions of people around the world are basically voting every day by choosing what to invest in.
But it's basically this organism or structure that is smarter than any individual that we use to allocate capital as efficiently as possible around the world.
And I do think that this notion that there are already these cybernetic
systems that are either melding the intelligence of multiple people together or melding the intelligence of multiple people and technology together to form something which is dramatically more intelligent than any individual in the world is something that seems to exist and that we seem to be able to harness in a productive way for our society
as long as we basically build these structures and balance with each other.
So I don't know.
I mean, that at least gives me hope that as we advance the technology, and I don't know how long exactly it's going to be, but you asked when is this going to exist?
I think to some degree we already have
many organizations in the world that are smarter than a single human.
And that seems to be something that is generally productive in advancing humanity.
Well, it's like a kimono.
I think there is a balance in here because if a lot of the input that
It's like the traditional martial arts or kimono.
that the systems are being trained on is basically coming from feedback from people, then a lot of the development does need to happen in human time, right?
It's not like a machine will just be able to go learn all this stuff about how people think about stuff.
There's a cycle to how this needs to work.
Pajamas.
Pajamas.
That you could choke people with, yes.
This is the question I'm asking.
It wasn't my best time, but anything under 40 minutes, I'm happy with.
It wasn't your best time.
No, I think I've done it a little faster before, but not much.
Well, it's got the lapels.
I mean, of my friends, I did not win on Memorial Day.
One of my friends did it actually several minutes faster than me.
Yes.
Yeah.
But just to clear up one thing that I think was, I saw a bunch of questions about this on the internet.
There are multiple ways to do the Murph Challenge.
There's a kind of partitioned mode where you do sets of pull-ups, push-ups, and squats.
together and then there's unpartitioned where you do the 100 pull-ups and then the 200 push-ups and then the 300 squats in serial and obviously if you're you know if you're doing them unpartitioned then you know it takes longer to get through the 100 pull-ups because you know anytime you're resting in between the pull-ups you're not also doing push-ups and and squats so so yeah so my i'm sure my unpartitioned time would be would be quite a bit slower but um but no i think at the end of this um
So I like jujitsu.
I also really like MMA.
First of all, I think it's a good way to honor Memorial Day.
Lieutenant Murphy, basically, this was one of his favorite exercises, and I just try to do it on Memorial Day each year.
And so I think no gi more closely approximates MMA.
It's a good workout.
I got my older daughters to do it with me this time.
My oldest daughter wants a weight vest because she sees me doing it with a weight vest.
I don't know if a seven-year-old should be using a weight vest to do pull-ups.
The difficult question a parent must ask themselves, yes.
I was like, maybe I can make you a very light weight vest, but I didn't think it was good for this.
So she basically did a quarter Murph.
So she ran a quarter mile.
and then did 25 pull-ups, 50 push-ups, and 75 air squats, then ran another quarter mile in 15 minutes, which I was pretty impressed by.
And my five-year-old too, so I was excited about that.
And I'm glad that I'm teaching them kind of the value of
And I think my style is maybe a little closer to an MMA style.
and a physicality, right?
I think a good day for Max, my daughter, is when she gets to like go to the gym with me and cranks out a bunch of pull-ups.
And I love that about her.
I mean, I think it's like good.
She's, you know, hopefully I'm teaching her some good lessons, but.
to uh to keep yourself happy to uh keep yourself productive in your main line of work yeah so i mean i've right now i'm focused most of my workouts on on fighting so so jujitsu and mma um but
I don't know.
I mean, maybe if you're a professional, you can do that every day.
I can't, I just get, you know, it's too many, too many bruises and things that you need to recover from.
So like a lot of jujitsu players are fine being on their back, right?
So, so I do that, you know, three to four times a week.
And then, um, and then the other days, um, I just try to do a mix of things like just cardio conditioning, strength building, mobility.
Um, so you try to do something physical every day.
Yeah, I try to, unless I'm just so tired that I just need to
need to relax but then i'll still try to like go for a walk or something i mean even here um i don't know i mean have you been on the roof here yet no we'll go on the roof after things but it's like we designed this this building and i put a park on the roof so that way that's like my my meetings when i'm just doing kind of a one-on-one or talking to a couple of people i'm i i have a very hard time just sitting i feel like it gets super stiff it like feels really bad um
And obviously having a good guard is a critical part of jujitsu.
but I don't know.
Being physical is very important to me.
I think it's, I do not believe this gets to the question about AI.
I don't think that a being is just a mind.
And I think we're, we're kind of meant to do things and like physically and, and a lot of the sensations that we feel are, are, are connected to that.
And I think that that's a lot of what makes you a human is, is basically, you know, having those,
But
having that set of sensations and experiences around that coupled with a mind to reason about them.
But in MMA, you don't want to be on your back, right?
But I don't know, I think it's important for balance to kind of get out, challenge yourself in different ways, learn different skills, clear your mind.
Because even if you have control, you're just taking punches while you're on your back.
It depends on what the goal is.
I think that there's this assumption in that question that intelligence should be kind of person-like, whereas as we were just talking about...
you can have these greater than single human intelligent organisms, like the stock market, which obviously do not have bodies and do not speak a language.
Right.
And like, you know, and, and just kind of have their own system.
But so I don't know, my guess is it will, there will be limits to what a system that is purely an intelligence can understand about the human condition without having the same, not just senses, but like,
So that's no good.
our bodies change as we get older, right?
And we kind of evolve.
And I think that those very subtle changes
physical changes just drive a lot of social patterns and behavior around like when you choose to have kids right like just like all these you know that's not even subtle that's a major one right but like um you know how you design things around the house um so yeah i mean i think i think it would if the goal is to understand people as much as possible i think i think that that's
Do you like being on top?
My style is I'm probably more pressure and I'd probably rather be the top player.
trying to model those sensations is probably somewhat important, but I know there's a lot of value that can be created by having intelligence, even that is separate from that.
It's a separate thing.
I think we'll have the capacity to do something like that.
And I think one of the big questions that we've had to struggle with in the context of social networks is who gets to make that.
And my answer to that in the context of the work that we're doing is that that should be your choice.
I don't think anyone should be able to choose to make a Lexbot that people can
can choose to talk to and get to train that.
And we have this precedent of making some of these calls where, I mean, someone can create a page for,
But I'm also smaller, right?
a Lex fan club, but you can't create a page and say that you're Lex, right?
So I think that this, similarly, I think, I mean, maybe, you know, someone maybe can make a, should be able to make an AI that's a Lex admirer that someone can talk to, but I think it should ultimately be your call whether
there is a Lex AI.
I'm not like a heavyweight guy, right?
Yeah, I think that there's a few different parts of this that are relevant.
So from that perspective, I think like...
there's sort of a philosophical part and there's a cultural part.
And one of the most basic lessons is right at the beginning of Genesis, right?
It's like God creates the earth and creates people and creates people in God's image.
And there's the question of, you know, what does that mean?
And all the only context that you have about God at that point in the old Testament is that he's, God has created things.
So I always thought that like one of the interesting lessons from that is that
There's a virtue in creating things.
that is like, whether it's artistic or whether you're building things that are functionally useful for other people.
You know, it's especially because, you know, if I'm doing a competition, I'll compete with people who are my size, but a lot of my friends are bigger than me.
Um, I think that that by itself is a good, and I, that kind of drives a lot of how I think about morality and my, my personal philosophy around like, what, what is a good life, right?
It's, I think it's one where you're,
you know, helping the people around you and you're being a kind of positive creative force in the world that is helping to, you know, bring new things into the world, whether they're, you know, amazing other people, kids, or, um,
or just leading to the creation of different things that, that wouldn't have been possible otherwise.
And so that's a value for me that, that, that matters deeply.
And I, I just, I mean, I just love, you know, spending time with the kids and seeing that they sort of, you know, trying to impart this value to them.
And, um, it's like, I mean, nothing makes me happier than like when I,
come home from work and i see like my my daughter's like building legos on the table or something it's like all right i did that when i was a kid right so many other people were doing this and like i hope you don't lose that spirit where when you you kind of grow up and you want to just continue building different things no matter what it is um to me that's a lot of what matters
So back takes probably pretty important, right?
That's the philosophical piece.
I think the cultural piece is just about community and values.
And that part of things I think has just become a lot more important to me since I've had kids.
Because that's where you have the most leverage advantage, right?
It's almost autopilot when you're a kid.
You're in the kind of getting imparted to phase of your life.
And I didn't really think about religion that much for a while.
I was in college.
you know, before I had kids.
Where, you know, people, you know, their arms, your arms are very weak behind you, right?
And then I think having kids has this way of really making you think about what traditions you wanna impart and how you wanna celebrate and like what balance you want in your life.
And I mean, a bunch of the questions that you've asked and a bunch of the things that we're talking about.
A lot of the topics that we've talked about today are around how do you balance, whether it's running a company or different responsibilities with this
So being able to get to the back and take that pretty important.
How do you kind of balance that?
And I always also just think that it's very grounding to just believe that there is something that is much bigger than you that is guiding things.
But I don't know, I feel like the right strategy is to not be too committed to any single submission.
Thank you.
Answer the question on Australia. We have a trade surplus with Australia. We have a free trade agreement. Why? They are an incredibly important national security partner. Why were they whacked with a tariff?
Answer the question on Australia. We have a trade surplus with Australia. We have a free trade agreement. Why? They are an incredibly important national security partner. Why were they whacked with a tariff?
The fact checkers have just been too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've created.
The fact checkers have just been too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've created.
What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas. And it's gone too far.
What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas. And it's gone too far.
We've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
We've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
It's not for sale, won't be for sale ever. Never say never. Ever say never.
It's not for sale, won't be for sale ever. Never say never. Ever say never.
We are the largest client of the United States in the totality of all the goods. So we are the largest client of the United States. We have a tremendous auto sector between the two of us, and the changes that made have been helpful. You know, 50% of a car that comes from Canada is American. That's not like anywhere else in the world.
We are the largest client of the United States in the totality of all the goods. So we are the largest client of the United States. We have a tremendous auto sector between the two of us, and the changes that made have been helpful. You know, 50% of a car that comes from Canada is American. That's not like anywhere else in the world.
If this was the case of a military officer or an intelligence officer and they had this kind of behavior, they would be fired.
If this was the case of a military officer or an intelligence officer and they had this kind of behavior, they would be fired.
Thank you, Georgia. I appreciate it. Looking forward to this.
Thank you, Georgia. I appreciate it. Looking forward to this.
Well, look, I think if you rewind back to Trump tariffs 1.0, fourth quarter of 2018, top to bottom, stocks fell about 19.9%. And right before they hit 20%, they started to reverse course. And then you fast forward to 2019, the S&P was up around 30%. So what I would say is that when you look at what's going on with tariffs,
Well, look, I think if you rewind back to Trump tariffs 1.0, fourth quarter of 2018, top to bottom, stocks fell about 19.9%. And right before they hit 20%, they started to reverse course. And then you fast forward to 2019, the S&P was up around 30%. So what I would say is that when you look at what's going on with tariffs,
obviously it's creating a lot of uncertainty which is causing a lot of fantastic stocks to pull back or sell off that's presenting good buying opportunities because when you look at policy uncertainty which is at its second highest level on record second to only the lockdowns of 2020
obviously it's creating a lot of uncertainty which is causing a lot of fantastic stocks to pull back or sell off that's presenting good buying opportunities because when you look at policy uncertainty which is at its second highest level on record second to only the lockdowns of 2020
Whenever you have a policy uncertainty this high, forward-looking returns in the stock market over the next three, six, and 12 months are substantially above average. So look, I'm viewing this as a buying opportunity. I'm trying to pick off my favorite high-conviction names and add to them where appropriate.
Whenever you have a policy uncertainty this high, forward-looking returns in the stock market over the next three, six, and 12 months are substantially above average. So look, I'm viewing this as a buying opportunity. I'm trying to pick off my favorite high-conviction names and add to them where appropriate.
So if we look at kind of worst case scenario for tariffs, as a country, we have about $25 trillion of total personal income annually. We import about $3.3 trillion of goods. If there was a universal 25% tariff on every single good we import, that would equate to roughly a 3% income tax on the American taxpayer. Not fun, but not the end of the world.
So if we look at kind of worst case scenario for tariffs, as a country, we have about $25 trillion of total personal income annually. We import about $3.3 trillion of goods. If there was a universal 25% tariff on every single good we import, that would equate to roughly a 3% income tax on the American taxpayer. Not fun, but not the end of the world.
But that's only if you're looking at tariffs in a vacuum. If then you start to pair it with the other pro-growth initiatives, lower taxes, less regulation, it actually seems pretty decent. And I also look at the fact that one of the latest things President Trump has talked about is – potentially no tax up to $150,000 of income. He's talked about no tax on Social Security.
But that's only if you're looking at tariffs in a vacuum. If then you start to pair it with the other pro-growth initiatives, lower taxes, less regulation, it actually seems pretty decent. And I also look at the fact that one of the latest things President Trump has talked about is – potentially no tax up to $150,000 of income. He's talked about no tax on Social Security.
He's talked about no tax on tips, no tax on overtime. The effective tax rate for someone making 150 grand a year is 15% right now, their federal income tax rate. If what President Trump wants to do happens, that goes down to zero, but then there's that extra 3% from tariffs. So look, at the end of the day, I think this is actually going to be good for the economy.
He's talked about no tax on tips, no tax on overtime. The effective tax rate for someone making 150 grand a year is 15% right now, their federal income tax rate. If what President Trump wants to do happens, that goes down to zero, but then there's that extra 3% from tariffs. So look, at the end of the day, I think this is actually going to be good for the economy.
good for the American taxpayers, good for consumers, and ultimately beneficial for the stock market.
good for the American taxpayers, good for consumers, and ultimately beneficial for the stock market.
I mean, as long as the uncertainty exists, that's what is causing the most heartache right now. But what I can tell you, Georgia, is that we're not talking about demand destruction. We're just talking about a timing event whereby demand gets pushed out of quarter or two.
I mean, as long as the uncertainty exists, that's what is causing the most heartache right now. But what I can tell you, Georgia, is that we're not talking about demand destruction. We're just talking about a timing event whereby demand gets pushed out of quarter or two.
So any of those growth initiatives that small businesses were thinking about putting in place this quarter, they still happen, but they just happen later. I would think that by Q3 of this year, you will start to see a big turnaround. I do think the economy can be on solid ground.
So any of those growth initiatives that small businesses were thinking about putting in place this quarter, they still happen, but they just happen later. I would think that by Q3 of this year, you will start to see a big turnaround. I do think the economy can be on solid ground.
Thanks, George. I appreciate it.
Thanks, George. I appreciate it.
I feel like the luckiest man on earth right now. I want you to know that I am not a hero in this at all. President Trump is a hero. These men that came from the diplomatic service are heroes. The senators and representatives that passed legislation in my honor to get me home are the heroes.
I feel like the luckiest man on earth right now. I want you to know that I am not a hero in this at all. President Trump is a hero. These men that came from the diplomatic service are heroes. The senators and representatives that passed legislation in my honor to get me home are the heroes.
After Trump first got elected in 2016, the legacy media wrote nonstop about how misinformation was a threat to democracy. We tried in good faith to address those concerns without becoming the arbiters of truth. But the fact-checkers have just been too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've created, especially in the U.S.,
After Trump first got elected in 2016, the legacy media wrote nonstop about how misinformation was a threat to democracy. We tried in good faith to address those concerns without becoming the arbiters of truth. But the fact-checkers have just been too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've created, especially in the U.S.,
We are a swing state for control of Congress, but also for the White House. And we need to work together as a team. We can't be in a situation where we're divided.
We are a swing state for control of Congress, but also for the White House. And we need to work together as a team. We can't be in a situation where we're divided.
If this were Nancy Pelosi, people would be saying master tactician, incredible achievement, president's agenda is being carried forward. You may not agree with the Republican Party, but you have to say what he's done is pretty incredible.
If this were Nancy Pelosi, people would be saying master tactician, incredible achievement, president's agenda is being carried forward. You may not agree with the Republican Party, but you have to say what he's done is pretty incredible.
He's not there to destroy the FBI. He's there to get them back on mission focus.
He's not there to destroy the FBI. He's there to get them back on mission focus.
He's there to support the field agents, to put them back on mission focus of protecting the American people, not taking directive orders from a Democrat party that's wanting to investigate students for showing up to school board meetings or classifying Catholics, and I'm not joking when I say this, as a possible terrorist because they disagreed with the Democrat agenda.
He's there to support the field agents, to put them back on mission focus of protecting the American people, not taking directive orders from a Democrat party that's wanting to investigate students for showing up to school board meetings or classifying Catholics, and I'm not joking when I say this, as a possible terrorist because they disagreed with the Democrat agenda.
Sure. So this has been a three and a half year nightmare for the family that started in August of 2021. For those of you who have not been tracking this, Mark is a 63-year-old teacher who was living in Moscow teaching diplomats' children at the Anglo-American school when he was arrested for possession of marijuana.
Sure. So this has been a three and a half year nightmare for the family that started in August of 2021. For those of you who have not been tracking this, Mark is a 63-year-old teacher who was living in Moscow teaching diplomats' children at the Anglo-American school when he was arrested for possession of marijuana.
He had 17 grams of marijuana on him, which had been prescribed by an American doctor for chronic pain. He was convicted in 2022 and sentenced to 14 years in the Rubinsk penal colony. His family has been desperate to get him out.
He had 17 grams of marijuana on him, which had been prescribed by an American doctor for chronic pain. He was convicted in 2022 and sentenced to 14 years in the Rubinsk penal colony. His family has been desperate to get him out.
Yeah, extremely similar. But Fogel did not receive the same attention, even though he was actually arrested about six months before her. Instead, the family was repeatedly met with stonewalling from the previous administration. As we reported at the time, when Mark was passed over in Biden's prisoner exchange last August, he sunk into a depression.
Yeah, extremely similar. But Fogel did not receive the same attention, even though he was actually arrested about six months before her. Instead, the family was repeatedly met with stonewalling from the previous administration. As we reported at the time, when Mark was passed over in Biden's prisoner exchange last August, he sunk into a depression.
Here's heartbreaking audio we obtained of his phone call with Vicki Eisman, a spokesperson for Free Mark Fogel.
Here's heartbreaking audio we obtained of his phone call with Vicki Eisman, a spokesperson for Free Mark Fogel.
Yes, he did. Trump met with Mark's mother, Malfeen, at his Butler, Pennsylvania rally, where moments later, he was shot by a would-be assassin. His mom was actually set to take to the stage before the shooting.
Yes, he did. Trump met with Mark's mother, Malfeen, at his Butler, Pennsylvania rally, where moments later, he was shot by a would-be assassin. His mom was actually set to take to the stage before the shooting.
He wanted to know all about Mark. He asked me a couple of times how long he had been there and why. And I gave him all the details. And he said, if I get in, I will get him out. And he pointed his thumb up towards the sky. He seemed very sincere. And I told him he had to remember Mark's name.
He wanted to know all about Mark. He asked me a couple of times how long he had been there and why. And I gave him all the details. And he said, if I get in, I will get him out. And he pointed his thumb up towards the sky. He seemed very sincere. And I told him he had to remember Mark's name.
Trump quickly worked to keep his promise to bring Mark home. Fogle exited the plane with an American flag draped around his shoulders and literally kissed the ground after setting foot on US soil. This all culminated with him being welcomed home at the White House Tuesday night by President Trump himself.
Trump quickly worked to keep his promise to bring Mark home. Fogle exited the plane with an American flag draped around his shoulders and literally kissed the ground after setting foot on US soil. This all culminated with him being welcomed home at the White House Tuesday night by President Trump himself.
Whenever you have a policy uncertainty this high, forward-looking returns in the stock market over the next three, six, and 12 months are substantially above average. So look, I'm viewing this as a buying opportunity. I'm trying to pick off my favorite high-conviction names and add to them where appropriate.
Whenever you have a policy uncertainty this high, forward-looking returns in the stock market over the next three, six, and 12 months are substantially above average. So look, I'm viewing this as a buying opportunity. I'm trying to pick off my favorite high-conviction names and add to them where appropriate.
So if we look at kind of worst case scenario for tariffs, as a country, we have about $25 trillion of total personal income annually. We import about $3.3 trillion of goods. If there was a universal 25% tariff on every single good we import, that would equate to roughly a 3% income tax on the American taxpayer. Not fun, not great, but not the end of the world.
So if we look at kind of worst case scenario for tariffs, as a country, we have about $25 trillion of total personal income annually. We import about $3.3 trillion of goods. If there was a universal 25% tariff on every single good we import, that would equate to roughly a 3% income tax on the American taxpayer. Not fun, not great, but not the end of the world.
But that's only if you're looking at tariffs in a vacuum. If then you start to pair it with the other pro-growth initiatives, lower taxes, less regulation, it actually seems pretty decent. So, I mean, you look at the extension of the Trump tax cuts, just using the highest tax bracket, that went from 39.6 down to 37. I don't have a PhD in mathematics, but that's pretty close to 3%.
But that's only if you're looking at tariffs in a vacuum. If then you start to pair it with the other pro-growth initiatives, lower taxes, less regulation, it actually seems pretty decent. So, I mean, you look at the extension of the Trump tax cuts, just using the highest tax bracket, that went from 39.6 down to 37. I don't have a PhD in mathematics, but that's pretty close to 3%.
And I also look at the fact that, you know, one of the latest things President Trump has talked about is potentially no tax up to $150,000 of income. He's talked about no tax on Social Security. He's talked about no tax on tips, no tax on overtime. The effective tax rate for someone making $150,000 a year is 15% right now, their federal income tax rate.
And I also look at the fact that, you know, one of the latest things President Trump has talked about is potentially no tax up to $150,000 of income. He's talked about no tax on Social Security. He's talked about no tax on tips, no tax on overtime. The effective tax rate for someone making $150,000 a year is 15% right now, their federal income tax rate.
If what President Trump wants to do happens, that goes down to zero, but then there's that extra 3% from tariffs. So, look, at the end of the day, I think this is actually going to be good for the economy, good for the American taxpayers, good for consumers, and ultimately beneficial for the stock market.
If what President Trump wants to do happens, that goes down to zero, but then there's that extra 3% from tariffs. So, look, at the end of the day, I think this is actually going to be good for the economy, good for the American taxpayers, good for consumers, and ultimately beneficial for the stock market.
That sounds like quite the challenge. But I think if he can make the case and he can get a lot of the Democrats to buy into helping average Joe and Jane on Main Street, I think there could be a chance. I mean, you rewind back to pre-Civil War and tariffs generated roughly 90% of the government's revenues back at that point in time. We didn't have a permanent income tax until I think it was 1913.
That sounds like quite the challenge. But I think if he can make the case and he can get a lot of the Democrats to buy into helping average Joe and Jane on Main Street, I think there could be a chance. I mean, you rewind back to pre-Civil War and tariffs generated roughly 90% of the government's revenues back at that point in time. We didn't have a permanent income tax until I think it was 1913.
So there's certainly a case to be made. I don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I think it would be great for the economy because at that point, what we're doing is via tariffs, we are taxing on consumption rather than income. And when you do that, You incentivize saving. And when you save, that grows the economy much, much faster.
So there's certainly a case to be made. I don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I think it would be great for the economy because at that point, what we're doing is via tariffs, we are taxing on consumption rather than income. And when you do that, You incentivize saving. And when you save, that grows the economy much, much faster.
And as we all know, look, we have a crushing fiscal deficit that obviously Doge is trying to chip away at. But no amount of spending cuts from Doge are going to completely balance the budget. So the only way we can balance the budget in the long run and start to chisel away at the debt is a combination of what Doge is doing in cutting spending. But we need to grow.
And as we all know, look, we have a crushing fiscal deficit that obviously Doge is trying to chip away at. But no amount of spending cuts from Doge are going to completely balance the budget. So the only way we can balance the budget in the long run and start to chisel away at the debt is a combination of what Doge is doing in cutting spending. But we need to grow.
And if we can incentivize saving over consuming, we can do that. We can achieve that. And it's going to take 10, 20 years for us to make good progress, but we can do it.
And if we can incentivize saving over consuming, we can do that. We can achieve that. And it's going to take 10, 20 years for us to make good progress, but we can do it.
I mean, as long as the uncertainty exists, that's what is causing the most heartache right now. But what I can tell you, Georgia, is that we're not talking about demand destruction. We're just talking about a timing event whereby demand gets pushed out of quarter or two.
I mean, as long as the uncertainty exists, that's what is causing the most heartache right now. But what I can tell you, Georgia, is that we're not talking about demand destruction. We're just talking about a timing event whereby demand gets pushed out of quarter or two.
So any of those growth initiatives that small businesses were thinking about putting in place this quarter, those moved to quarter two, quarter three, quarter four of this year. They still happen, but they just happen later. I would think that by Q3 of this year, you will start to see a big turnaround.
So any of those growth initiatives that small businesses were thinking about putting in place this quarter, those moved to quarter two, quarter three, quarter four of this year. They still happen, but they just happen later. I would think that by Q3 of this year, you will start to see a big turnaround.
I do think, Georgia, that getting the Trump tax cuts extended by somewhere around July 1st through 15th is incredibly important for consumers. If it doesn't happen by then, you've got back-to-school shopping season really about a few weeks after that, and you might see consumers pull back.
I do think, Georgia, that getting the Trump tax cuts extended by somewhere around July 1st through 15th is incredibly important for consumers. If it doesn't happen by then, you've got back-to-school shopping season really about a few weeks after that, and you might see consumers pull back.
So consumers need to feel like those Trump tax cuts are going to stay in place, that it's helping them, that tariffs have not raised the price of all the goods that they want to buy to astronomical levels. And when they see that, and I do believe it will be made clear by Q3 or so of this year, yes, I do think the economy can be on solid ground.
So consumers need to feel like those Trump tax cuts are going to stay in place, that it's helping them, that tariffs have not raised the price of all the goods that they want to buy to astronomical levels. And when they see that, and I do believe it will be made clear by Q3 or so of this year, yes, I do think the economy can be on solid ground.
Thanks, George. I appreciate it.
Thanks, George. I appreciate it.
Thank you, Georgia. I appreciate it. Looking forward to this.
Thank you, Georgia. I appreciate it. Looking forward to this.
Well, look, I think if you rewind back to Trump tariffs 1.0, fourth quarter of 2018, top to bottom, the stocks fell about 19.9%. And right before they hit 20%, they started to reverse course. And then you fast forward to 2019, the S&P was up around 30%. So what I would say is that when you look at what's going on with tariffs,
Well, look, I think if you rewind back to Trump tariffs 1.0, fourth quarter of 2018, top to bottom, the stocks fell about 19.9%. And right before they hit 20%, they started to reverse course. And then you fast forward to 2019, the S&P was up around 30%. So what I would say is that when you look at what's going on with tariffs,
Obviously, it's creating a lot of uncertainty, which is causing a lot of fantastic stocks to pull back or sell off. That's presenting good buying opportunities because when you look at policy uncertainty, which is at its second highest level on record, second to only the lockdowns of 2020.
Obviously, it's creating a lot of uncertainty, which is causing a lot of fantastic stocks to pull back or sell off. That's presenting good buying opportunities because when you look at policy uncertainty, which is at its second highest level on record, second to only the lockdowns of 2020.
I go there with the expectation of constructive, difficult, but constructive discussions. That's the spirit of the conversations that the president and I had.
I go there with the expectation of constructive, difficult, but constructive discussions. That's the spirit of the conversations that the president and I had.
I'm asking for a strong, positive mandate from my fellow Canadians. I've just requested that the Governor General dissolve Parliament and call an election for April 28th. And she has agreed. We are facing the most significant crisis of our lifetimes.
I'm asking for a strong, positive mandate from my fellow Canadians. I've just requested that the Governor General dissolve Parliament and call an election for April 28th. And she has agreed. We are facing the most significant crisis of our lifetimes.
Donald Trump... As we know, has put, as the Prime Minister just said, unjustified tariffs on what we build, on what we sell, on how we make a living. He's attacking Canadian families, workers and businesses, and we cannot let him succeed.
Donald Trump... As we know, has put, as the Prime Minister just said, unjustified tariffs on what we build, on what we sell, on how we make a living. He's attacking Canadian families, workers and businesses, and we cannot let him succeed.
You know, I grew up... I have three sisters, no brothers. I have three daughters, no sons. So I'm, like, surrounded by girls and women, like, my whole life. And it's like... So I think... I don't know. There's just something, the kind of masculine energy I think is good. And obviously, you know, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really like trying to get away from it.
You know, I grew up... I have three sisters, no brothers. I have three daughters, no sons. So I'm, like, surrounded by girls and women, like, my whole life. And it's like... So I think... I don't know. There's just something, the kind of masculine energy I think is good. And obviously, you know, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really like trying to get away from it.
You know, I grew up... I have three sisters, no brothers. I have three daughters, no sons. So I'm, like, surrounded by girls and women, like, my whole life. And it's like... So I think... I don't know. There's just something, the kind of masculine energy I think is good. And obviously, you know, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really like trying to get away from it.
And I do think that there's just something, it's like, I don't know, all these forms of energy are good. And I think having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive.
And I do think that there's just something, it's like, I don't know, all these forms of energy are good. And I think having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive.
And I do think that there's just something, it's like, I don't know, all these forms of energy are good. And I think having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
I have. Sometimes on vacation, I'll drink it recreationally. It's like every once in a while.
I have. Sometimes on vacation, I'll drink it recreationally. It's like every once in a while.
I have. Sometimes on vacation, I'll drink it recreationally. It's like every once in a while.
Really? Yeah, no. I just hate anything that messes with it. I don't like any kind of chemicals or anything like that. Oh, really? So you'd like to keep everything the equilibrium? Yeah, my sister gives me such a hard time about this. She's like, you're just sitting there raw-dogging reality. Wow.
Really? Yeah, no. I just hate anything that messes with it. I don't like any kind of chemicals or anything like that. Oh, really? So you'd like to keep everything the equilibrium? Yeah, my sister gives me such a hard time about this. She's like, you're just sitting there raw-dogging reality. Wow.
Really? Yeah, no. I just hate anything that messes with it. I don't like any kind of chemicals or anything like that. Oh, really? So you'd like to keep everything the equilibrium? Yeah, my sister gives me such a hard time about this. She's like, you're just sitting there raw-dogging reality. Wow.
The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today.
First, we're gonna get rid of fact-checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X, starting in the U.S.
First, we're gonna get rid of fact-checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X, starting in the U.S.
First, we're gonna get rid of fact-checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X, starting in the U.S.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
I think you start one of these if you care about giving people a voice. I wasn't too deep on our content policies for like the first 10 years of the company. It was just kind of well known across the company that we were trying to give people the ability to share as much as possible. I kind of think in 2016 in the aftermath,
I think you start one of these if you care about giving people a voice. I wasn't too deep on our content policies for like the first 10 years of the company. It was just kind of well known across the company that we were trying to give people the ability to share as much as possible. I kind of think in 2016 in the aftermath,
I gave too much deference to a lot of folks in the media who were basically saying, okay, there's no way that this guy could have gotten elected except for misinformation. People just felt like the fact checkers were too biased. I don't know. It's something out of like, you know, 1984, one of these books where it's just like, it really is a slippery slope.
I gave too much deference to a lot of folks in the media who were basically saying, okay, there's no way that this guy could have gotten elected except for misinformation. People just felt like the fact checkers were too biased. I don't know. It's something out of like, you know, 1984, one of these books where it's just like, it really is a slippery slope.
And it just got to a point where it's just, okay, this is destroying so much trust, especially in the United States to have this program. If the US tech industry is going to continue being really strong, I do think that the US government has a role in basically defending it abroad. And that's one of the things that I'm optimistic about will happen in this administration.
And it just got to a point where it's just, okay, this is destroying so much trust, especially in the United States to have this program. If the US tech industry is going to continue being really strong, I do think that the US government has a role in basically defending it abroad. And that's one of the things that I'm optimistic about will happen in this administration.
Just, I think a lot of the corporate world is like pretty culturally neutered. There's something, the kind of masculine energy I think is good. I think having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive. Just like having a thing that I can just like do with my guy friends and like, And we just beat each other a bit. It's good. It is good.
Just, I think a lot of the corporate world is like pretty culturally neutered. There's something, the kind of masculine energy I think is good. I think having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive. Just like having a thing that I can just like do with my guy friends and like, And we just beat each other a bit. It's good. It is good.
So we built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
So we built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
Well, you know, I'm optimistic, but I'm an entrepreneur. You don't go off and try to build something crazy if you're not optimistic fundamentally about the world.
Well, you know, I'm optimistic, but I'm an entrepreneur. You don't go off and try to build something crazy if you're not optimistic fundamentally about the world.
Well, you know, I'm optimistic, but I'm an entrepreneur. You don't go off and try to build something crazy if you're not optimistic fundamentally about the world.
I mean, I've only encountered people who seem like they have good intentions and want to move this forward and care about the people in their districts. And what we're trying to do with Forward.Us is, I mean, obviously we're not writing the law, right? I mean, all these folks know way more about the sensitivities than we do.
I mean, I've only encountered people who seem like they have good intentions and want to move this forward and care about the people in their districts. And what we're trying to do with Forward.Us is, I mean, obviously we're not writing the law, right? I mean, all these folks know way more about the sensitivities than we do.
I mean, I've only encountered people who seem like they have good intentions and want to move this forward and care about the people in their districts. And what we're trying to do with Forward.Us is, I mean, obviously we're not writing the law, right? I mean, all these folks know way more about the sensitivities than we do.
We just want to be there to help support folks who are going to have to take challenging positions on something that's going to be controversial, but they ultimately believe is the right thing. So that's why we're here and what we're going to try to do to help out.
We just want to be there to help support folks who are going to have to take challenging positions on something that's going to be controversial, but they ultimately believe is the right thing. So that's why we're here and what we're going to try to do to help out.
We just want to be there to help support folks who are going to have to take challenging positions on something that's going to be controversial, but they ultimately believe is the right thing. So that's why we're here and what we're going to try to do to help out.
Chairman Grassley, Chairman Thune, Ranking Member Feinstein and Ranking Member Nelson and members of the committee.
Chairman Grassley, Chairman Thune, Ranking Member Feinstein and Ranking Member Nelson and members of the committee.
Chairman Grassley, Chairman Thune, Ranking Member Feinstein and Ranking Member Nelson and members of the committee.
We face a number of important issues around privacy, safety, and democracy. And you will rightfully have some hard questions for me to answer.
We face a number of important issues around privacy, safety, and democracy. And you will rightfully have some hard questions for me to answer.
We face a number of important issues around privacy, safety, and democracy. And you will rightfully have some hard questions for me to answer.
But it's clear now that we didn't do enough to prevent these tools from being used for harm as well. And that goes for fake news, for foreign interference in elections and hate speech, as well as developers and data privacy. We didn't take a broad enough view of our responsibility, and that was a big mistake. And it was my mistake, and I'm sorry.
But it's clear now that we didn't do enough to prevent these tools from being used for harm as well. And that goes for fake news, for foreign interference in elections and hate speech, as well as developers and data privacy. We didn't take a broad enough view of our responsibility, and that was a big mistake. And it was my mistake, and I'm sorry.
But it's clear now that we didn't do enough to prevent these tools from being used for harm as well. And that goes for fake news, for foreign interference in elections and hate speech, as well as developers and data privacy. We didn't take a broad enough view of our responsibility, and that was a big mistake. And it was my mistake, and I'm sorry.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram. I started building social media to give people a voice.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram. I started building social media to give people a voice.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram. I started building social media to give people a voice.
Senator, yes, there will always be a version of Facebook that is free. It is our mission to try to help connect everyone around the world and to bring the world closer together. In order to do that, we believe that we need to offer a service that everyone can afford, and we're committed to doing that.
Senator, yes, there will always be a version of Facebook that is free. It is our mission to try to help connect everyone around the world and to bring the world closer together. In order to do that, we believe that we need to offer a service that everyone can afford, and we're committed to doing that.
Senator, yes, there will always be a version of Facebook that is free. It is our mission to try to help connect everyone around the world and to bring the world closer together. In order to do that, we believe that we need to offer a service that everyone can afford, and we're committed to doing that.
And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
Joe learns about a zombie hunting VR game he might like. My zombie game is Arizona Sunshine.
Joe learns about a zombie hunting VR game he might like. My zombie game is Arizona Sunshine.
Joe learns about a zombie hunting VR game he might like. My zombie game is Arizona Sunshine.
Oh, it's, you just like, it can be multiplayer and there's horde mode where you just get in there and...
Oh, it's, you just like, it can be multiplayer and there's horde mode where you just get in there and...
Oh, it's, you just like, it can be multiplayer and there's horde mode where you just get in there and...
I was sympathetic to that at the beginning of COVID. It seemed like, okay, you have this virus. It seems like it's killing a lot of people. I don't know. We didn't know at the time how dangerous it was going to be. So at the beginning, it kind of seemed like, okay, we should give a little bit of deference to the government and the health authorities on how we should play this.
I was sympathetic to that at the beginning of COVID. It seemed like, okay, you have this virus. It seems like it's killing a lot of people. I don't know. We didn't know at the time how dangerous it was going to be. So at the beginning, it kind of seemed like, okay, we should give a little bit of deference to the government and the health authorities on how we should play this.
I was sympathetic to that at the beginning of COVID. It seemed like, okay, you have this virus. It seems like it's killing a lot of people. I don't know. We didn't know at the time how dangerous it was going to be. So at the beginning, it kind of seemed like, okay, we should give a little bit of deference to the government and the health authorities on how we should play this.
First, we're going to get rid of fact checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X starting in the U.S.,
First, we're going to get rid of fact checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X starting in the U.S.,
First, we're going to get rid of fact checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X starting in the U.S.,
But when it went from, you know, two weeks to flatten the curve to, you know, and like in the beginning it was like, okay, there aren't enough masks, masks aren't that important, to then it's like, oh, no, you have to wear a mask. And, you know, like everything was shifting around. It just became very difficult to kind of follow. And this really hit the most extreme, I'd say, during...
But when it went from, you know, two weeks to flatten the curve to, you know, and like in the beginning it was like, okay, there aren't enough masks, masks aren't that important, to then it's like, oh, no, you have to wear a mask. And, you know, like everything was shifting around. It just became very difficult to kind of follow. And this really hit the most extreme, I'd say, during...
But when it went from, you know, two weeks to flatten the curve to, you know, and like in the beginning it was like, okay, there aren't enough masks, masks aren't that important, to then it's like, oh, no, you have to wear a mask. And, you know, like everything was shifting around. It just became very difficult to kind of follow. And this really hit the most extreme, I'd say, during...
It was during the Biden administration when they were trying to roll out the vaccine program. And I'm generally like pretty pro rolling out vaccines. I think on balance, the vaccines are more positive than negative. I think that while they're trying to push that program, they also tried to censor anyone who is basically arguing against it.
It was during the Biden administration when they were trying to roll out the vaccine program. And I'm generally like pretty pro rolling out vaccines. I think on balance, the vaccines are more positive than negative. I think that while they're trying to push that program, they also tried to censor anyone who is basically arguing against it.
It was during the Biden administration when they were trying to roll out the vaccine program. And I'm generally like pretty pro rolling out vaccines. I think on balance, the vaccines are more positive than negative. I think that while they're trying to push that program, they also tried to censor anyone who is basically arguing against it.
And they pushed us super hard to take down things that were honestly were true, right? I mean, they basically pushed us and said, you know, anything that says that vaccines might have side effects, you basically need to take down. And I was just like, well, we're not going to do that. Like, we're clearly not going to do that. I mean, that is kind of inarguably true.
And they pushed us super hard to take down things that were honestly were true, right? I mean, they basically pushed us and said, you know, anything that says that vaccines might have side effects, you basically need to take down. And I was just like, well, we're not going to do that. Like, we're clearly not going to do that. I mean, that is kind of inarguably true.
And they pushed us super hard to take down things that were honestly were true, right? I mean, they basically pushed us and said, you know, anything that says that vaccines might have side effects, you basically need to take down. And I was just like, well, we're not going to do that. Like, we're clearly not going to do that. I mean, that is kind of inarguably true.
It was people in the Biden administration. I think it was...
It was people in the Biden administration. I think it was...
It was people in the Biden administration. I think it was...
And since then, I think generally trust in media has fallen off a cliff, right? So I don't think I'm alone in that journey. I think that's basically the experience that a lot of people have had is, okay, the stuff that's being written about is not kind of all accurate. And even if the facts are right, it's kind of written from a slant a lot of the time. Of course. And then...
And since then, I think generally trust in media has fallen off a cliff, right? So I don't think I'm alone in that journey. I think that's basically the experience that a lot of people have had is, okay, the stuff that's being written about is not kind of all accurate. And even if the facts are right, it's kind of written from a slant a lot of the time. Of course. And then...
And since then, I think generally trust in media has fallen off a cliff, right? So I don't think I'm alone in that journey. I think that's basically the experience that a lot of people have had is, okay, the stuff that's being written about is not kind of all accurate. And even if the facts are right, it's kind of written from a slant a lot of the time. Of course. And then...
And then there was the government version of it, which is during COVID, which is okay. It's like our government is telling us that we need to censor true things. It's like, this is a disaster.
And then there was the government version of it, which is during COVID, which is okay. It's like our government is telling us that we need to censor true things. It's like, this is a disaster.
And then there was the government version of it, which is during COVID, which is okay. It's like our government is telling us that we need to censor true things. It's like, this is a disaster.
We're going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse. What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas, and it's gone too far.
We're going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse. What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas, and it's gone too far.
We're going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse. What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas, and it's gone too far.
So I want to make sure that people can share their beliefs and experiences on our platforms.
So I want to make sure that people can share their beliefs and experiences on our platforms.
So I want to make sure that people can share their beliefs and experiences on our platforms.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today, because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today, because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today, because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram.
But the bottom line is that after years of having our content moderation work focus primarily on removing content, it is time to focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our systems, and getting back to our roots about giving people voice.
But the bottom line is that after years of having our content moderation work focus primarily on removing content, it is time to focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our systems, and getting back to our roots about giving people voice.
But the bottom line is that after years of having our content moderation work focus primarily on removing content, it is time to focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our systems, and getting back to our roots about giving people voice.
I'm looking forward to this next chapter. Stay good out there and more to come soon.
I'm looking forward to this next chapter. Stay good out there and more to come soon.
I'm looking forward to this next chapter. Stay good out there and more to come soon.
Sure. So... I mean, privacy is a really important issue for us and for the Internet. So we spend a lot of time thinking about these things. In terms of the settings that we have, I think that there are some misperceptions.
Sure. So... I mean, privacy is a really important issue for us and for the Internet. So we spend a lot of time thinking about these things. In terms of the settings that we have, I think that there are some misperceptions.
Sure. So... I mean, privacy is a really important issue for us and for the Internet. So we spend a lot of time thinking about these things. In terms of the settings that we have, I think that there are some misperceptions.
Yeah, I mean... They cut to a very close close-up of his face. He looks like a teenager pulled over for a DUI. You can see the beads of sweat collecting. I can't go back and change the past.
Yeah, I mean... They cut to a very close close-up of his face. He looks like a teenager pulled over for a DUI. You can see the beads of sweat collecting. I can't go back and change the past.
Yeah, I mean... They cut to a very close close-up of his face. He looks like a teenager pulled over for a DUI. You can see the beads of sweat collecting. I can't go back and change the past.
It's pretty popular with the staff and with the faculty. The students, unfortunately, I think are more toward like, oh, I want a cookie or I want chips, but the adults seem to really enjoy it.
It's pretty popular with the staff and with the faculty. The students, unfortunately, I think are more toward like, oh, I want a cookie or I want chips, but the adults seem to really enjoy it.
It's pretty popular with the staff and with the faculty. The students, unfortunately, I think are more toward like, oh, I want a cookie or I want chips, but the adults seem to really enjoy it.
Well, if you check out the Lefamira website, it's actually a really great website. And they do this whole promotion on reusable and sustainable. And you can take these pots and they give you all these ideas what you can do with them.
Well, if you check out the Lefamira website, it's actually a really great website. And they do this whole promotion on reusable and sustainable. And you can take these pots and they give you all these ideas what you can do with them.
Well, if you check out the Lefamira website, it's actually a really great website. And they do this whole promotion on reusable and sustainable. And you can take these pots and they give you all these ideas what you can do with them.
You know, they haven't really invented anything great in a while. It's like Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later.
You know, they haven't really invented anything great in a while. It's like Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later.
You know, they haven't really invented anything great in a while. It's like Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later.
No soup for you.
No soup for you.
No soup for you.
The U.S. has the strongest constitutional protections for free expression in the world. Europe has an ever-increasing number of laws institutionalizing censorship and making it difficult to build anything innovative there. The only way that we can push back on this global trend is with the support of the US government.
The U.S. has the strongest constitutional protections for free expression in the world. Europe has an ever-increasing number of laws institutionalizing censorship and making it difficult to build anything innovative there. The only way that we can push back on this global trend is with the support of the US government.
The U.S. has the strongest constitutional protections for free expression in the world. Europe has an ever-increasing number of laws institutionalizing censorship and making it difficult to build anything innovative there. The only way that we can push back on this global trend is with the support of the US government.
And that's why it's been so difficult over the past four years when even the US government has pushed for censorship. By going after us and other American companies, it has emboldened other governments to go even further. But now we have the opportunity to restore free expression, and I am excited to take it.
And that's why it's been so difficult over the past four years when even the US government has pushed for censorship. By going after us and other American companies, it has emboldened other governments to go even further. But now we have the opportunity to restore free expression, and I am excited to take it.
And that's why it's been so difficult over the past four years when even the US government has pushed for censorship. By going after us and other American companies, it has emboldened other governments to go even further. But now we have the opportunity to restore free expression, and I am excited to take it.
Well, we basically just reached a point where we pushed back on all this stuff, right? So they were pushing us to censor stuff. We were unwilling to do it. We developed a very adversarial and bad relationship with our own government, which I think is just not healthy because I think, you know, it's... I mean, in...
Well, we basically just reached a point where we pushed back on all this stuff, right? So they were pushing us to censor stuff. We were unwilling to do it. We developed a very adversarial and bad relationship with our own government, which I think is just not healthy because I think, you know, it's... I mean, in...
Well, we basically just reached a point where we pushed back on all this stuff, right? So they were pushing us to censor stuff. We were unwilling to do it. We developed a very adversarial and bad relationship with our own government, which I think is just not healthy because I think, you know, it's... I mean, in...
In theory, I think, you know, it would be good if the American industry had a positive relationship with the American government. But then what that happened is then the kind of U.S. government was going after us in all these ways. But fortunately in the U.S., you know, we have good rule of law.
In theory, I think, you know, it would be good if the American industry had a positive relationship with the American government. But then what that happened is then the kind of U.S. government was going after us in all these ways. But fortunately in the U.S., you know, we have good rule of law.
In theory, I think, you know, it would be good if the American industry had a positive relationship with the American government. But then what that happened is then the kind of U.S. government was going after us in all these ways. But fortunately in the U.S., you know, we have good rule of law.
So our view is at the end of the day, OK, these agencies can open up investigations and we'll just defend ourselves. We'll go to court and we'll win all the cases because we're We follow the rules. And so I think it ends up being.
So our view is at the end of the day, OK, these agencies can open up investigations and we'll just defend ourselves. We'll go to court and we'll win all the cases because we're We follow the rules. And so I think it ends up being.
So our view is at the end of the day, OK, these agencies can open up investigations and we'll just defend ourselves. We'll go to court and we'll win all the cases because we're We follow the rules. And so I think it ends up being.
a big kind of political issue where it's like it would just be you could get a lot more done if the government were helping american companies rather than kind of slowing you down at every step along the way it makes you a little afraid that if you ever actually mess something up that they're really going to bring the hammer down on you if you don't have a constructive relationship but um
a big kind of political issue where it's like it would just be you could get a lot more done if the government were helping american companies rather than kind of slowing you down at every step along the way it makes you a little afraid that if you ever actually mess something up that they're really going to bring the hammer down on you if you don't have a constructive relationship but um
a big kind of political issue where it's like it would just be you could get a lot more done if the government were helping american companies rather than kind of slowing you down at every step along the way it makes you a little afraid that if you ever actually mess something up that they're really going to bring the hammer down on you if you don't have a constructive relationship but um
But I don't know. It's mostly I mean, going back to the AI conversation, it's like I just think like we should all want the American companies to win at this.
But I don't know. It's mostly I mean, going back to the AI conversation, it's like I just think like we should all want the American companies to win at this.
But I don't know. It's mostly I mean, going back to the AI conversation, it's like I just think like we should all want the American companies to win at this.
It's like this is like a huge geopolitical competition and like China is running at it super hard. And like we should want the American companies in the American standard to win. And like if there's going to be an open source model that everyone uses like. We should want it to be an American model. There's this great Chinese model that just came out, this company DeepSeek.
It's like this is like a huge geopolitical competition and like China is running at it super hard. And like we should want the American companies in the American standard to win. And like if there's going to be an open source model that everyone uses like. We should want it to be an American model. There's this great Chinese model that just came out, this company DeepSeek.
It's like this is like a huge geopolitical competition and like China is running at it super hard. And like we should want the American companies in the American standard to win. And like if there's going to be an open source model that everyone uses like. We should want it to be an American model. There's this great Chinese model that just came out, this company DeepSeek.
They're doing really good work. It's a very advanced model. And if you ask it for any negative opinions about Xi Jinping, it will not give you anything. If you ask it if Tiananmen Square happened, it will deny it. So I think there are all these things where we should want the American model to win. But every step along the way,
They're doing really good work. It's a very advanced model. And if you ask it for any negative opinions about Xi Jinping, it will not give you anything. If you ask it if Tiananmen Square happened, it will deny it. So I think there are all these things where we should want the American model to win. But every step along the way,
They're doing really good work. It's a very advanced model. And if you ask it for any negative opinions about Xi Jinping, it will not give you anything. If you ask it if Tiananmen Square happened, it will deny it. So I think there are all these things where we should want the American model to win. But every step along the way,
if the government is sort of making that harder rather than easier, then that's, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's an extent to which, okay, the American tech industry is leading. So maybe the government can like get in the way a little bit and maybe the American industry will still lead, but I don't know. It's, I think it's getting really competitive.
if the government is sort of making that harder rather than easier, then that's, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's an extent to which, okay, the American tech industry is leading. So maybe the government can like get in the way a little bit and maybe the American industry will still lead, but I don't know. It's, I think it's getting really competitive.
if the government is sort of making that harder rather than easier, then that's, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's an extent to which, okay, the American tech industry is leading. So maybe the government can like get in the way a little bit and maybe the American industry will still lead, but I don't know. It's, I think it's getting really competitive.
And I think like it's easy for the government to take for granted that the U S will lead on all these things when I think it's a very close competition and we need the help, not, you know, we need them to not kind of like, You know, be a force that's helping us to do these things.
And I think like it's easy for the government to take for granted that the U S will lead on all these things when I think it's a very close competition and we need the help, not, you know, we need them to not kind of like, You know, be a force that's helping us to do these things.
And I think like it's easy for the government to take for granted that the U S will lead on all these things when I think it's a very close competition and we need the help, not, you know, we need them to not kind of like, You know, be a force that's helping us to do these things.
And since then, I think generally trust in media has fallen off a cliff, right? So I don't think I'm alone in that journey. I think that's basically the experience that a lot of people have had is, okay, the stuff that's being written about is not kind of all accurate. And even if the facts are right, it's kind of written from a slant a lot of the time.
And since then, I think generally trust in media has fallen off a cliff, right? So I don't think I'm alone in that journey. I think that's basically the experience that a lot of people have had is, okay, the stuff that's being written about is not kind of all accurate. And even if the facts are right, it's kind of written from a slant a lot of the time.
And since then, I think generally trust in media has fallen off a cliff, right? So I don't think I'm alone in that journey. I think that's basically the experience that a lot of people have had is, okay, the stuff that's being written about is not kind of all accurate. And even if the facts are right, it's kind of written from a slant a lot of the time.
And some of this is just, you know, if you go back to the COVID example, I think in that case, they were doing something. Their goal of trying to get everyone to get vaccinated was actually, I think, a good goal.
And some of this is just, you know, if you go back to the COVID example, I think in that case, they were doing something. Their goal of trying to get everyone to get vaccinated was actually, I think, a good goal.
And some of this is just, you know, if you go back to the COVID example, I think in that case, they were doing something. Their goal of trying to get everyone to get vaccinated was actually, I think, a good goal.
Yeah. But but also even but even if it were right, it's like if I mean, I think that still unbalanced, knowing everything that we know now, I still think it's good for more people to get the vaccine. But the government still needs to play by the rules in terms of, you know, not like you can't just suppress true things in order to make your case. So I that's that's kind of my.
Yeah. But but also even but even if it were right, it's like if I mean, I think that still unbalanced, knowing everything that we know now, I still think it's good for more people to get the vaccine. But the government still needs to play by the rules in terms of, you know, not like you can't just suppress true things in order to make your case. So I that's that's kind of my.
Yeah. But but also even but even if it were right, it's like if I mean, I think that still unbalanced, knowing everything that we know now, I still think it's good for more people to get the vaccine. But the government still needs to play by the rules in terms of, you know, not like you can't just suppress true things in order to make your case. So I that's that's kind of my.
My view on it is I'm not sure in that case how much of it was like a personal political gain that they were going for. I think that they had a kind of goal that they thought was in the interests of the country. And the way they went about it, I think, violated the law.
My view on it is I'm not sure in that case how much of it was like a personal political gain that they were going for. I think that they had a kind of goal that they thought was in the interests of the country. And the way they went about it, I think, violated the law.
My view on it is I'm not sure in that case how much of it was like a personal political gain that they were going for. I think that they had a kind of goal that they thought was in the interests of the country. And the way they went about it, I think, violated the law.
tension with the American government. I guess just the point that I'd underscore is that it's important to have this working in the American government because it is like the U.S. Constitution and like our culture here is really good compared to a lot of other places. Right. So whatever issues we think might exist here. you go to other places and it's like really extreme. Yeah.
tension with the American government. I guess just the point that I'd underscore is that it's important to have this working in the American government because it is like the U.S. Constitution and like our culture here is really good compared to a lot of other places. Right. So whatever issues we think might exist here. you go to other places and it's like really extreme. Yeah.
tension with the American government. I guess just the point that I'd underscore is that it's important to have this working in the American government because it is like the U.S. Constitution and like our culture here is really good compared to a lot of other places. Right. So whatever issues we think might exist here. you go to other places and it's like really extreme. Yeah.
And you don't even, and there it's like, you don't even necessarily have the rule of law.
And you don't even, and there it's like, you don't even necessarily have the rule of law.
And you don't even, and there it's like, you don't even necessarily have the rule of law.
Right. And, um, so I just think that like the way that this stuff works well is, yeah, I think if, if, if there was a clearer strategy and the U S government understood, believe that it's good to kind of help advance this industry because it's strategically important for the country, um,
Right. And, um, so I just think that like the way that this stuff works well is, yeah, I think if, if, if there was a clearer strategy and the U S government understood, believe that it's good to kind of help advance this industry because it's strategically important for the country, um,
Right. And, um, so I just think that like the way that this stuff works well is, yeah, I think if, if, if there was a clearer strategy and the U S government understood, believe that it's good to kind of help advance this industry because it's strategically important for the country, um,
And then... And then there was the government version of it, which is during COVID, which is okay. It's like our government is telling us that we need to censor true things. It's like, this is a disaster. And it's not just the U.S., right? I think a lot of people in the U.S., focus on this as an American phenomenon.
And then... And then there was the government version of it, which is during COVID, which is okay. It's like our government is telling us that we need to censor true things. It's like, this is a disaster. And it's not just the U.S., right? I think a lot of people in the U.S., focus on this as an American phenomenon.
And then... And then there was the government version of it, which is during COVID, which is okay. It's like our government is telling us that we need to censor true things. It's like, this is a disaster. And it's not just the U.S., right? I think a lot of people in the U.S., focus on this as an American phenomenon.
then I think it would be good to basically push back on stuff that's happening in other countries that's actually a lot more extreme than the stuff that's happening in the U.S.
then I think it would be good to basically push back on stuff that's happening in other countries that's actually a lot more extreme than the stuff that's happening in the U.S.
then I think it would be good to basically push back on stuff that's happening in other countries that's actually a lot more extreme than the stuff that's happening in the U.S.
I mean, how long have we been going for? Three hours. Yeah, I mean, well, I feel like we touched on AI. We touched on all the augmented and virtual reality stuff. And I think that that stuff is just going to be Wild.
I mean, how long have we been going for? Three hours. Yeah, I mean, well, I feel like we touched on AI. We touched on all the augmented and virtual reality stuff. And I think that that stuff is just going to be Wild.
I mean, how long have we been going for? Three hours. Yeah, I mean, well, I feel like we touched on AI. We touched on all the augmented and virtual reality stuff. And I think that that stuff is just going to be Wild.
Did you get a chance to use the Ray-Bans and the AI in them?
Did you get a chance to use the Ray-Bans and the AI in them?
Did you get a chance to use the Ray-Bans and the AI in them?
It's like the Ray-Bans are like, okay, given a good-looking pair of glasses, what's all the technology you can put into that today and still have it be just a few hundred dollars? And then the Orion thing is like, all right, we're building the kind of future thing that we want, and we're doing our best to miniaturize it. It's basically like— Still pretty small.
It's like the Ray-Bans are like, okay, given a good-looking pair of glasses, what's all the technology you can put into that today and still have it be just a few hundred dollars? And then the Orion thing is like, all right, we're building the kind of future thing that we want, and we're doing our best to miniaturize it. It's basically like— Still pretty small.
It's like the Ray-Bans are like, okay, given a good-looking pair of glasses, what's all the technology you can put into that today and still have it be just a few hundred dollars? And then the Orion thing is like, all right, we're building the kind of future thing that we want, and we're doing our best to miniaturize it. It's basically like— Still pretty small.
Yeah. And I think we want it to be a little smaller. We need to be a lot cheaper, right? Each pair right now costs more than $10,000 to make. And you're not going to have a successful consumer product at that. So we have to miniaturize it more. But I mean, the amount of stuff that we put in there from... It's like effectively...
Yeah. And I think we want it to be a little smaller. We need to be a lot cheaper, right? Each pair right now costs more than $10,000 to make. And you're not going to have a successful consumer product at that. So we have to miniaturize it more. But I mean, the amount of stuff that we put in there from... It's like effectively...
Yeah. And I think we want it to be a little smaller. We need to be a lot cheaper, right? Each pair right now costs more than $10,000 to make. And you're not going to have a successful consumer product at that. So we have to miniaturize it more. But I mean, the amount of stuff that we put in there from... It's like effectively...
It would have been considered a supercomputer like 10 or 20 years ago. Plus, you know, lasers in the arms and the like nano etchings on the on the lens to be able to see it. And then the microphone and the speaker and the Wi-Fi to be able to connect to the other. It's just like like a wild amount of technology to kind of miniaturize into something. That one's really fun.
It would have been considered a supercomputer like 10 or 20 years ago. Plus, you know, lasers in the arms and the like nano etchings on the on the lens to be able to see it. And then the microphone and the speaker and the Wi-Fi to be able to connect to the other. It's just like like a wild amount of technology to kind of miniaturize into something. That one's really fun.
It would have been considered a supercomputer like 10 or 20 years ago. Plus, you know, lasers in the arms and the like nano etchings on the on the lens to be able to see it. And then the microphone and the speaker and the Wi-Fi to be able to connect to the other. It's just like like a wild amount of technology to kind of miniaturize into something. That one's really fun.
We've been working on that for 10 years. Um, but yeah, no, I think, I think between that, the glasses, um, all the AI stuff, um, yeah, all the social media stuff. Yeah.
We've been working on that for 10 years. Um, but yeah, no, I think, I think between that, the glasses, um, all the AI stuff, um, yeah, all the social media stuff. Yeah.
We've been working on that for 10 years. Um, but yeah, no, I think, I think between that, the glasses, um, all the AI stuff, um, yeah, all the social media stuff. Yeah.
Yeah. I think the more voice is the answer on this.
Yeah. I think the more voice is the answer on this.
Yeah. I think the more voice is the answer on this.
And I think after sort of a long journey, I'm glad to be able to take it back to the roots. And I feel like we're more fortified now in the position.
And I think after sort of a long journey, I'm glad to be able to take it back to the roots. And I feel like we're more fortified now in the position.
And I think after sort of a long journey, I'm glad to be able to take it back to the roots. And I feel like we're more fortified now in the position.
But I kind of think that the reaction to COVID probably caused a breakdown in trust in a lot of governments around the world. Because, I mean, 2024 was a big election year around the world. And, you know, there are all these countries, India, just like a ton of countries that had elections. And the incumbents basically lost every single one.
But I kind of think that the reaction to COVID probably caused a breakdown in trust in a lot of governments around the world. Because, I mean, 2024 was a big election year around the world. And, you know, there are all these countries, India, just like a ton of countries that had elections. And the incumbents basically lost every single one.
But I kind of think that the reaction to COVID probably caused a breakdown in trust in a lot of governments around the world. Because, I mean, 2024 was a big election year around the world. And, you know, there are all these countries, India, just like a ton of countries that had elections. And the incumbents basically lost every single one.
Well, look, I think going back to the beginning, or like I was saying, I think you start one of these if you care about giving people a voice. You know, I wasn't too deep on our content policies for like the first 10 years of the company. It was just kind of well known across the company that we were trying to give people the ability to share as much as possible.
Well, look, I think going back to the beginning, or like I was saying, I think you start one of these if you care about giving people a voice. You know, I wasn't too deep on our content policies for like the first 10 years of the company. It was just kind of well known across the company that we were trying to give people the ability to share as much as possible.
Well, look, I think going back to the beginning, or like I was saying, I think you start one of these if you care about giving people a voice. You know, I wasn't too deep on our content policies for like the first 10 years of the company. It was just kind of well known across the company that we were trying to give people the ability to share as much as possible.
So there is some sort of a global phenomenon where the – whether it was because of inflation, because of the economic policies to deal with COVID or just how the government's dealt with COVID – seems to have had this effect that's global, not just the U.S., but like a very broad decrease in trust, at least in that set of incumbents and maybe in sort of these democratic institutions overall.
So there is some sort of a global phenomenon where the – whether it was because of inflation, because of the economic policies to deal with COVID or just how the government's dealt with COVID – seems to have had this effect that's global, not just the U.S., but like a very broad decrease in trust, at least in that set of incumbents and maybe in sort of these democratic institutions overall.
So there is some sort of a global phenomenon where the – whether it was because of inflation, because of the economic policies to deal with COVID or just how the government's dealt with COVID – seems to have had this effect that's global, not just the U.S., but like a very broad decrease in trust, at least in that set of incumbents and maybe in sort of these democratic institutions overall.
So I think that what you're saying of, yeah, how do people get their information now? It's by sharing it online on social media. I think that that's just increasingly true. And my view at this point is like, all right, like we started off focused on free expression. We kind of had this pressure tested over the last period.
So I think that what you're saying of, yeah, how do people get their information now? It's by sharing it online on social media. I think that that's just increasingly true. And my view at this point is like, all right, like we started off focused on free expression. We kind of had this pressure tested over the last period.
So I think that what you're saying of, yeah, how do people get their information now? It's by sharing it online on social media. I think that that's just increasingly true. And my view at this point is like, all right, like we started off focused on free expression. We kind of had this pressure tested over the last period.
I feel like I just have a much greater command now of what I think the policy should be. And like, this is how it's going to be going forward. And and so I mean, at this point, I think I think a lot of people look at this as like a purely political thing, you know, because they they kind of look at the timing and they're like, hey, well, you're doing this right after the election.
I feel like I just have a much greater command now of what I think the policy should be. And like, this is how it's going to be going forward. And and so I mean, at this point, I think I think a lot of people look at this as like a purely political thing, you know, because they they kind of look at the timing and they're like, hey, well, you're doing this right after the election.
I feel like I just have a much greater command now of what I think the policy should be. And like, this is how it's going to be going forward. And and so I mean, at this point, I think I think a lot of people look at this as like a purely political thing, you know, because they they kind of look at the timing and they're like, hey, well, you're doing this right after the election.
It's like, OK, I try not to change our content rules like right in the middle of an election either. Right. It's like there's not like a great time to do this.
It's like, OK, I try not to change our content rules like right in the middle of an election either. Right. It's like there's not like a great time to do this.
It's like, OK, I try not to change our content rules like right in the middle of an election either. Right. It's like there's not like a great time to do this.
Yeah, it's like there's no good time to do it. Whatever time is going on, there's going to be... The good thing about doing it after the election is you get to take this kind of cultural pulse as like, okay, where are people right now and how are people thinking about it? We try to have policies that reflect mainstream discourse. But Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Yeah, it's like there's no good time to do it. Whatever time is going on, there's going to be... The good thing about doing it after the election is you get to take this kind of cultural pulse as like, okay, where are people right now and how are people thinking about it? We try to have policies that reflect mainstream discourse. But Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Yeah, it's like there's no good time to do it. Whatever time is going on, there's going to be... The good thing about doing it after the election is you get to take this kind of cultural pulse as like, okay, where are people right now and how are people thinking about it? We try to have policies that reflect mainstream discourse. But Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. I think that this is going to be pretty durable because at this point, we've just been pressure tested on this stuff for like the last eight to 10 years with like these huge institutions just pressuring us. And I feel like this is kind of the right place to be going forward. What was it like?
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. I think that this is going to be pretty durable because at this point, we've just been pressure tested on this stuff for like the last eight to 10 years with like these huge institutions just pressuring us. And I feel like this is kind of the right place to be going forward. What was it like?
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. I think that this is going to be pretty durable because at this point, we've just been pressure tested on this stuff for like the last eight to 10 years with like these huge institutions just pressuring us. And I feel like this is kind of the right place to be going forward. What was it like?
And issues would come up, practical issues, right? So if someone's getting bullied, for example, we deal with that, or we put in place systems to fight bullying.
And issues would come up, practical issues, right? So if someone's getting bullied, for example, we deal with that, or we put in place systems to fight bullying.
And issues would come up, practical issues, right? So if someone's getting bullied, for example, we deal with that, or we put in place systems to fight bullying.
You know, if someone is saying, hey, you know, someone's pirating copyrighted content on the service, it's like, OK, we'll build controls to make it so we'll find IP protected content. But it was really in the last 10 years that people started pushing for ideological-based censorship. And I think it was two main events that really triggered this.
You know, if someone is saying, hey, you know, someone's pirating copyrighted content on the service, it's like, OK, we'll build controls to make it so we'll find IP protected content. But it was really in the last 10 years that people started pushing for ideological-based censorship. And I think it was two main events that really triggered this.
You know, if someone is saying, hey, you know, someone's pirating copyrighted content on the service, it's like, OK, we'll build controls to make it so we'll find IP protected content. But it was really in the last 10 years that people started pushing for ideological-based censorship. And I think it was two main events that really triggered this.
Well, when you say someone's coming after you, are you referring to kind of the government and investigations and all that? I mean, so the issue is that there's the... There's what specific thing an agency might be looking into you for. And then there's like the underlying political motivation, which is like, why do the people who are running this thing hate you?
Well, when you say someone's coming after you, are you referring to kind of the government and investigations and all that? I mean, so the issue is that there's the... There's what specific thing an agency might be looking into you for. And then there's like the underlying political motivation, which is like, why do the people who are running this thing hate you?
Well, when you say someone's coming after you, are you referring to kind of the government and investigations and all that? I mean, so the issue is that there's the... There's what specific thing an agency might be looking into you for. And then there's like the underlying political motivation, which is like, why do the people who are running this thing hate you?
And I think that those can often be two very different things. So, and we had organizations... that were looking into us that were not really involved with social media, like the CFPB, like this financial, I don't even know what it stands for. It's the financial organization that Elizabeth Warren had set up.
And I think that those can often be two very different things. So, and we had organizations... that were looking into us that were not really involved with social media, like the CFPB, like this financial, I don't even know what it stands for. It's the financial organization that Elizabeth Warren had set up.
And I think that those can often be two very different things. So, and we had organizations... that were looking into us that were not really involved with social media, like the CFPB, like this financial, I don't even know what it stands for. It's the financial organization that Elizabeth Warren had set up.
And it's basically, it's like, we're not a bank.
And it's basically, it's like, we're not a bank.
And it's basically, it's like, we're not a bank.
Yeah, so we're not a bank, right? It's like, what does Meta have to do with this? But they kind of found some theory that they wanted to investigate. And it's like, okay, clearly they were trying really hard to find some theory. But it like, I don't know, it just it kind of like throughout the...
Yeah, so we're not a bank, right? It's like, what does Meta have to do with this? But they kind of found some theory that they wanted to investigate. And it's like, okay, clearly they were trying really hard to find some theory. But it like, I don't know, it just it kind of like throughout the...
Yeah, so we're not a bank, right? It's like, what does Meta have to do with this? But they kind of found some theory that they wanted to investigate. And it's like, okay, clearly they were trying really hard to find some theory. But it like, I don't know, it just it kind of like throughout the...
The party and the government, there's just sort of – I don't know if it's – I don't know how this stuff works. I mean, I've never been in government. I don't know if it's like a directive or it's just like a quiet consensus that, like, we don't like these guys. They're not doing what we want. We're going to punish them. But it's tough to be at the other end of that.
The party and the government, there's just sort of – I don't know if it's – I don't know how this stuff works. I mean, I've never been in government. I don't know if it's like a directive or it's just like a quiet consensus that, like, we don't like these guys. They're not doing what we want. We're going to punish them. But it's tough to be at the other end of that.
The party and the government, there's just sort of – I don't know if it's – I don't know how this stuff works. I mean, I've never been in government. I don't know if it's like a directive or it's just like a quiet consensus that, like, we don't like these guys. They're not doing what we want. We're going to punish them. But it's tough to be at the other end of that.
Well, it's not good. I think – The thing that I think is actually the toughest, though, is it's global, right? And really, when you think about it, the U.S. government should be defending its companies, right? Not be the tip of the spear attacking its companies. So we talk about a lot, okay, what is the experience of... OK, if the U.S. government comes after you.
Well, it's not good. I think – The thing that I think is actually the toughest, though, is it's global, right? And really, when you think about it, the U.S. government should be defending its companies, right? Not be the tip of the spear attacking its companies. So we talk about a lot, okay, what is the experience of... OK, if the U.S. government comes after you.
Well, it's not good. I think – The thing that I think is actually the toughest, though, is it's global, right? And really, when you think about it, the U.S. government should be defending its companies, right? Not be the tip of the spear attacking its companies. So we talk about a lot, okay, what is the experience of... OK, if the U.S. government comes after you.
I think the real issue is that when the U.S. government does that to its tech industry, it's basically just open season around the rest of the world. I mean, the EU, I pull these numbers, the EU has fined the tech companies more than $30 billion over the last, I think it was like 10 or 20 years. Wow. Holy shit.
I think the real issue is that when the U.S. government does that to its tech industry, it's basically just open season around the rest of the world. I mean, the EU, I pull these numbers, the EU has fined the tech companies more than $30 billion over the last, I think it was like 10 or 20 years. Wow. Holy shit.
I think the real issue is that when the U.S. government does that to its tech industry, it's basically just open season around the rest of the world. I mean, the EU, I pull these numbers, the EU has fined the tech companies more than $30 billion over the last, I think it was like 10 or 20 years. Wow. Holy shit.
So when you when you think about it, like, OK, there's it's like, you know, 100 million dollars here, a couple billion dollars there. But what I think really adds up to is this is sort of like a kind of EU wide policy for how they want to deal with American tech. It's almost like a tariff. And I think the US government basically gets to decide how are they going to deal with that, right?
So when you when you think about it, like, OK, there's it's like, you know, 100 million dollars here, a couple billion dollars there. But what I think really adds up to is this is sort of like a kind of EU wide policy for how they want to deal with American tech. It's almost like a tariff. And I think the US government basically gets to decide how are they going to deal with that, right?
So when you when you think about it, like, OK, there's it's like, you know, 100 million dollars here, a couple billion dollars there. But what I think really adds up to is this is sort of like a kind of EU wide policy for how they want to deal with American tech. It's almost like a tariff. And I think the US government basically gets to decide how are they going to deal with that, right?
Because if the US government, if some other country was screwing with another industry that we cared about, the US government would probably find some way to put pressure on them. But I think what happened here is actually the complete opposite. the U.S.
Because if the US government, if some other country was screwing with another industry that we cared about, the US government would probably find some way to put pressure on them. But I think what happened here is actually the complete opposite. the U.S.
Because if the US government, if some other country was screwing with another industry that we cared about, the US government would probably find some way to put pressure on them. But I think what happened here is actually the complete opposite. the U.S.
government led the kind of attack against the companies, which then just made it so, like, the EU is basically, and all these other places, just free to just go to town on all the American companies and do whatever you want. But, I mean, look, obviously, like, I don't want to come across as if, like, we don't have things that we need to do better. Obviously, we do.
government led the kind of attack against the companies, which then just made it so, like, the EU is basically, and all these other places, just free to just go to town on all the American companies and do whatever you want. But, I mean, look, obviously, like, I don't want to come across as if, like, we don't have things that we need to do better. Obviously, we do.
government led the kind of attack against the companies, which then just made it so, like, the EU is basically, and all these other places, just free to just go to town on all the American companies and do whatever you want. But, I mean, look, obviously, like, I don't want to come across as if, like, we don't have things that we need to do better. Obviously, we do.
And when we mess something up, we deserve to be held accountable for that and just like everyone else. I do think that the American technology industry is a bright spot in the American economy. I think it's a strategic advantage for the United States that we have a lot of the strongest companies in the world. And I think it should be part of the U.S. 's strategy going forward to defend that.
And when we mess something up, we deserve to be held accountable for that and just like everyone else. I do think that the American technology industry is a bright spot in the American economy. I think it's a strategic advantage for the United States that we have a lot of the strongest companies in the world. And I think it should be part of the U.S. 's strategy going forward to defend that.
And when we mess something up, we deserve to be held accountable for that and just like everyone else. I do think that the American technology industry is a bright spot in the American economy. I think it's a strategic advantage for the United States that we have a lot of the strongest companies in the world. And I think it should be part of the U.S. 's strategy going forward to defend that.
And it's one of the things that I'm optimistic about with President Trump is I think he just wants America to win. And I think some of the stuff like the other governments who are kind of pushing on this stuff, it's At least the U.S. has the rule of law, right? So the government can come after you for something, but you still get your day in court and the courts are pretty fair.
And it's one of the things that I'm optimistic about with President Trump is I think he just wants America to win. And I think some of the stuff like the other governments who are kind of pushing on this stuff, it's At least the U.S. has the rule of law, right? So the government can come after you for something, but you still get your day in court and the courts are pretty fair.
And it's one of the things that I'm optimistic about with President Trump is I think he just wants America to win. And I think some of the stuff like the other governments who are kind of pushing on this stuff, it's At least the U.S. has the rule of law, right? So the government can come after you for something, but you still get your day in court and the courts are pretty fair.
In 2016, there was the election of President Trump, also coincided with basically Brexit in the EU and sort of the fragmentation of the EU. And then, you know, in 2020, there was COVID. And I think that those were basically these two events where for the first time, we just faced this massive, massive institutional pressure to basically start censoring content on ideological grounds.
In 2016, there was the election of President Trump, also coincided with basically Brexit in the EU and sort of the fragmentation of the EU. And then, you know, in 2020, there was COVID. And I think that those were basically these two events where for the first time, we just faced this massive, massive institutional pressure to basically start censoring content on ideological grounds.
In 2016, there was the election of President Trump, also coincided with basically Brexit in the EU and sort of the fragmentation of the EU. And then, you know, in 2020, there was COVID. And I think that those were basically these two events where for the first time, we just faced this massive, massive institutional pressure to basically start censoring content on ideological grounds.
And so we've basically done a pretty good job of defending ourselves. And when we've chosen to do that, basically, we have a pretty good rate of winning. It's just not like that in every other country around the world. Like if other governments decide that they're going to go after you, you don't always get kind of a clear shake at kind of defending yourself on the rules.
And so we've basically done a pretty good job of defending ourselves. And when we've chosen to do that, basically, we have a pretty good rate of winning. It's just not like that in every other country around the world. Like if other governments decide that they're going to go after you, you don't always get kind of a clear shake at kind of defending yourself on the rules.
And so we've basically done a pretty good job of defending ourselves. And when we've chosen to do that, basically, we have a pretty good rate of winning. It's just not like that in every other country around the world. Like if other governments decide that they're going to go after you, you don't always get kind of a clear shake at kind of defending yourself on the rules.
So I think to some degree, if the U.S. tech industry is going to continue being really strong – I do think that the U.S. government has a role in basically defending it abroad. And that's one of the things that I'm optimistic about will happen in this administration.
So I think to some degree, if the U.S. tech industry is going to continue being really strong – I do think that the U.S. government has a role in basically defending it abroad. And that's one of the things that I'm optimistic about will happen in this administration.
So I think to some degree, if the U.S. tech industry is going to continue being really strong – I do think that the U.S. government has a role in basically defending it abroad. And that's one of the things that I'm optimistic about will happen in this administration.
Well, I think there are a couple of different things here. One is this is something where I think X and Twitter just did it better than us on fact checking. We took the critique around fact checking, sorry, around misinformation. We put in place this fact checking program, which basically empowered these third party fact checkers.
Well, I think there are a couple of different things here. One is this is something where I think X and Twitter just did it better than us on fact checking. We took the critique around fact checking, sorry, around misinformation. We put in place this fact checking program, which basically empowered these third party fact checkers.
Well, I think there are a couple of different things here. One is this is something where I think X and Twitter just did it better than us on fact checking. We took the critique around fact checking, sorry, around misinformation. We put in place this fact checking program, which basically empowered these third party fact checkers.
They can mark stuff false and then we would downright get in the algorithm. I think what Twitter and X have done with community notes, I think it's just a better program. Rather than having a small number of fact checkers, you get the whole community to weigh in.
They can mark stuff false and then we would downright get in the algorithm. I think what Twitter and X have done with community notes, I think it's just a better program. Rather than having a small number of fact checkers, you get the whole community to weigh in.
They can mark stuff false and then we would downright get in the algorithm. I think what Twitter and X have done with community notes, I think it's just a better program. Rather than having a small number of fact checkers, you get the whole community to weigh in.
When people usually disagree on something, tend to agree on how they're voting on a note, that's a good sign to the community that there's actually a broad consensus on this, and then you show it. And you're showing more information, not less. So you're not using the fact check as a signal to show less, you're using the community note to provide real context and show additional information.
When people usually disagree on something, tend to agree on how they're voting on a note, that's a good sign to the community that there's actually a broad consensus on this, and then you show it. And you're showing more information, not less. So you're not using the fact check as a signal to show less, you're using the community note to provide real context and show additional information.
When people usually disagree on something, tend to agree on how they're voting on a note, that's a good sign to the community that there's actually a broad consensus on this, and then you show it. And you're showing more information, not less. So you're not using the fact check as a signal to show less, you're using the community note to provide real context and show additional information.
So I think that that's better. For When you're talking about like nation states or people interfering, a lot of that stuff is best rooted out at the level of kind of accounts doing phony things. So you get like whether it's like China or Russia or Iran or like one of these countries, they'll set up these networks of fake accounts and bots.
So I think that that's better. For When you're talking about like nation states or people interfering, a lot of that stuff is best rooted out at the level of kind of accounts doing phony things. So you get like whether it's like China or Russia or Iran or like one of these countries, they'll set up these networks of fake accounts and bots.
So I think that that's better. For When you're talking about like nation states or people interfering, a lot of that stuff is best rooted out at the level of kind of accounts doing phony things. So you get like whether it's like China or Russia or Iran or like one of these countries, they'll set up these networks of fake accounts and bots.
And they coordinate and they post on each other's stuff to make it seem like it's authentic and kind of convince people. It's like, wow, a bunch of people must think this or something. And the way that you identify that is you build AI systems that can basically detect that those accounts are not behaving the way that a human would.
And they coordinate and they post on each other's stuff to make it seem like it's authentic and kind of convince people. It's like, wow, a bunch of people must think this or something. And the way that you identify that is you build AI systems that can basically detect that those accounts are not behaving the way that a human would.
And they coordinate and they post on each other's stuff to make it seem like it's authentic and kind of convince people. It's like, wow, a bunch of people must think this or something. And the way that you identify that is you build AI systems that can basically detect that those accounts are not behaving the way that a human would.
And when we find that, that there's like some bot that's operating an account.
And when we find that, that there's like some bot that's operating an account.
And when we find that, that there's like some bot that's operating an account.
There are some things that a person just would never do. Have you met Lex Friedman? Yes. He might not be. He might not pass your Turing test.
There are some things that a person just would never do. Have you met Lex Friedman? Yes. He might not be. He might not pass your Turing test.
There are some things that a person just would never do. Have you met Lex Friedman? Yes. He might not be. He might not pass your Turing test.
It's things that aren't possible?
It's things that aren't possible?
It's things that aren't possible?
I think these guys are pretty sophisticated, and it's an adversarial space. So we find some technique, and then they basically kind of update their techniques. But we have a team of, it's effectively like intelligence, counterintelligence folks, counterterrorism folks, AI folks who are building systems to identify people
I think these guys are pretty sophisticated, and it's an adversarial space. So we find some technique, and then they basically kind of update their techniques. But we have a team of, it's effectively like intelligence, counterintelligence folks, counterterrorism folks, AI folks who are building systems to identify people
I think these guys are pretty sophisticated, and it's an adversarial space. So we find some technique, and then they basically kind of update their techniques. But we have a team of, it's effectively like intelligence, counterintelligence folks, counterterrorism folks, AI folks who are building systems to identify people
What are these accounts that are just not behaving the way that people would and how are they interacting? And then sometimes you trace it down and sometimes you get some tips from different intelligence agencies and then you can kind of piece together over time.
What are these accounts that are just not behaving the way that people would and how are they interacting? And then sometimes you trace it down and sometimes you get some tips from different intelligence agencies and then you can kind of piece together over time.
What are these accounts that are just not behaving the way that people would and how are they interacting? And then sometimes you trace it down and sometimes you get some tips from different intelligence agencies and then you can kind of piece together over time.
It's like, oh, this network of people is actually some kind of fake cluster of accounts and that's against our policies and we just take them all off.
It's like, oh, this network of people is actually some kind of fake cluster of accounts and that's against our policies and we just take them all off.
It's like, oh, this network of people is actually some kind of fake cluster of accounts and that's against our policies and we just take them all off.
Yes. I think for the specific problem around these large coordinated groups doing election interference or something, it's a large enough group. We have a bunch of people analyzing it. It's like they study it for a while. I think we're probably pretty accurate on that.
Yes. I think for the specific problem around these large coordinated groups doing election interference or something, it's a large enough group. We have a bunch of people analyzing it. It's like they study it for a while. I think we're probably pretty accurate on that.
Yes. I think for the specific problem around these large coordinated groups doing election interference or something, it's a large enough group. We have a bunch of people analyzing it. It's like they study it for a while. I think we're probably pretty accurate on that.
But I actually think one of the bigger issues that we have in our moderation system is this precision issue that you're talking about. And that is actually, of all the things that we announced this week,
But I actually think one of the bigger issues that we have in our moderation system is this precision issue that you're talking about. And that is actually, of all the things that we announced this week,
But I actually think one of the bigger issues that we have in our moderation system is this precision issue that you're talking about. And that is actually, of all the things that we announced this week,
In terms of how we're going to update the content policies, changing the content filters to have to require higher confidence and precision is actually going to be the thing that reduces the vast majority of the censorship mistakes that we make. Removing the fact checkers and replacing them with community notes, I think it's a good step forward.
In terms of how we're going to update the content policies, changing the content filters to have to require higher confidence and precision is actually going to be the thing that reduces the vast majority of the censorship mistakes that we make. Removing the fact checkers and replacing them with community notes, I think it's a good step forward.
In terms of how we're going to update the content policies, changing the content filters to have to require higher confidence and precision is actually going to be the thing that reduces the vast majority of the censorship mistakes that we make. Removing the fact checkers and replacing them with community notes, I think it's a good step forward.
like a very small percent of content is fact checked in the first place. So it's, is that going to make the hugest difference? I'm not sure. Um, I think it'll be a positive step though. Um, and we, we like opened up some content policies. So some stuff that was restricted before we opened up, okay, that's good.
like a very small percent of content is fact checked in the first place. So it's, is that going to make the hugest difference? I'm not sure. Um, I think it'll be a positive step though. Um, and we, we like opened up some content policies. So some stuff that was restricted before we opened up, okay, that's good.
like a very small percent of content is fact checked in the first place. So it's, is that going to make the hugest difference? I'm not sure. Um, I think it'll be a positive step though. Um, and we, we like opened up some content policies. So some stuff that was restricted before we opened up, okay, that's good.
It'll mean that some set of things that might've been censored before or not, but by far the biggest set of issues we have, and you and I have talked about a bunch of issues like this over the years is like, it's just, um, Okay, you have some classifier that's trying to find, say, like drug content, right? People decide, okay, it's like the opioid epidemic is a big deal.
It'll mean that some set of things that might've been censored before or not, but by far the biggest set of issues we have, and you and I have talked about a bunch of issues like this over the years is like, it's just, um, Okay, you have some classifier that's trying to find, say, like drug content, right? People decide, okay, it's like the opioid epidemic is a big deal.
It'll mean that some set of things that might've been censored before or not, but by far the biggest set of issues we have, and you and I have talked about a bunch of issues like this over the years is like, it's just, um, Okay, you have some classifier that's trying to find, say, like drug content, right? People decide, okay, it's like the opioid epidemic is a big deal.
Yeah, and this is the thing. At the time, I was really sort of ill-prepared to kind of parse what was going on. I think part of my reflection looking back on this is I kind of think in 2016 and the aftermath, I gave too much deference to a lot of folks in the media who were basically saying, OK, there's no way that this guy could have gotten elected except for misinformation.
Yeah, and this is the thing. At the time, I was really sort of ill-prepared to kind of parse what was going on. I think part of my reflection looking back on this is I kind of think in 2016 and the aftermath, I gave too much deference to a lot of folks in the media who were basically saying, OK, there's no way that this guy could have gotten elected except for misinformation.
Yeah, and this is the thing. At the time, I was really sort of ill-prepared to kind of parse what was going on. I think part of my reflection looking back on this is I kind of think in 2016 and the aftermath, I gave too much deference to a lot of folks in the media who were basically saying, OK, there's no way that this guy could have gotten elected except for misinformation.
We need to do a better job of cracking down on drugs and drug sales. I don't want people dealing drugs on our networks. So we build a bunch of systems that basically go out and try to automate finding people who are dealing drugs. And then you basically have this question. Which is how precise do you want to set the classifier?
We need to do a better job of cracking down on drugs and drug sales. I don't want people dealing drugs on our networks. So we build a bunch of systems that basically go out and try to automate finding people who are dealing drugs. And then you basically have this question. Which is how precise do you want to set the classifier?
We need to do a better job of cracking down on drugs and drug sales. I don't want people dealing drugs on our networks. So we build a bunch of systems that basically go out and try to automate finding people who are dealing drugs. And then you basically have this question. Which is how precise do you want to set the classifier?
So do you want to make it so that the system needs to be 99% sure that someone is dealing drugs before taking them down? Do you want it to be 90% confident, 80% confident? And then those correspond to amounts of... I guess the statistics term would be recall. What percent of the bad stuff are you finding?
So do you want to make it so that the system needs to be 99% sure that someone is dealing drugs before taking them down? Do you want it to be 90% confident, 80% confident? And then those correspond to amounts of... I guess the statistics term would be recall. What percent of the bad stuff are you finding?
So do you want to make it so that the system needs to be 99% sure that someone is dealing drugs before taking them down? Do you want it to be 90% confident, 80% confident? And then those correspond to amounts of... I guess the statistics term would be recall. What percent of the bad stuff are you finding?
So if you require 99% confidence, then maybe you only actually end up taking down 20% of the bad content. Whereas if you reduce it and you say, okay, we're only going to require 90% confidence. Now maybe you can take down 60% of the bad content. But let's say you say, no, we really need to find everyone who is doing this bad thing. And it doesn't need to be as severe as dealing drugs.
So if you require 99% confidence, then maybe you only actually end up taking down 20% of the bad content. Whereas if you reduce it and you say, okay, we're only going to require 90% confidence. Now maybe you can take down 60% of the bad content. But let's say you say, no, we really need to find everyone who is doing this bad thing. And it doesn't need to be as severe as dealing drugs.
So if you require 99% confidence, then maybe you only actually end up taking down 20% of the bad content. Whereas if you reduce it and you say, okay, we're only going to require 90% confidence. Now maybe you can take down 60% of the bad content. But let's say you say, no, we really need to find everyone who is doing this bad thing. And it doesn't need to be as severe as dealing drugs.
It could just be – I mean it could be any kind of content of – any kind of category of harmful content. You start getting to some of these classifiers might have 80%, 85% precision in order to get 90% of the bad stuff down. But the problem is if you're at 90% precision, that means one out of 10 things that the classifier takes down is not actually problematic.
It could just be – I mean it could be any kind of content of – any kind of category of harmful content. You start getting to some of these classifiers might have 80%, 85% precision in order to get 90% of the bad stuff down. But the problem is if you're at 90% precision, that means one out of 10 things that the classifier takes down is not actually problematic.
It could just be – I mean it could be any kind of content of – any kind of category of harmful content. You start getting to some of these classifiers might have 80%, 85% precision in order to get 90% of the bad stuff down. But the problem is if you're at 90% precision, that means one out of 10 things that the classifier takes down is not actually problematic.
And if you kind of multiply that across the billions of people who use our services every day, that is... millions and millions of posts that are basically being taken down that are innocent.
And if you kind of multiply that across the billions of people who use our services every day, that is... millions and millions of posts that are basically being taken down that are innocent.
And if you kind of multiply that across the billions of people who use our services every day, that is... millions and millions of posts that are basically being taken down that are innocent.
And upon review, we're going to look at and be like, this is ridiculous that this thing got taken down, which I mean, I think you've had that experience and we've talked about this for a bunch of stuff over time. But it really just comes down to this question of where do you want to set the classifiers? So one of the things that we're going to do
And upon review, we're going to look at and be like, this is ridiculous that this thing got taken down, which I mean, I think you've had that experience and we've talked about this for a bunch of stuff over time. But it really just comes down to this question of where do you want to set the classifiers? So one of the things that we're going to do
And upon review, we're going to look at and be like, this is ridiculous that this thing got taken down, which I mean, I think you've had that experience and we've talked about this for a bunch of stuff over time. But it really just comes down to this question of where do you want to set the classifiers? So one of the things that we're going to do
is basically set them to require more confidence, which is this trade-off. It's going to mean that we will maybe take down a smaller amount of the harmful content, but it will also mean that we'll dramatically reduce the amount of people whose accounts we're taking off. for a mistake, which is just a terrible experience, right?
is basically set them to require more confidence, which is this trade-off. It's going to mean that we will maybe take down a smaller amount of the harmful content, but it will also mean that we'll dramatically reduce the amount of people whose accounts we're taking off. for a mistake, which is just a terrible experience, right?
is basically set them to require more confidence, which is this trade-off. It's going to mean that we will maybe take down a smaller amount of the harmful content, but it will also mean that we'll dramatically reduce the amount of people whose accounts we're taking off. for a mistake, which is just a terrible experience, right?
It's like, okay, you're going about your day and then one day you wake up and you're like, oh, my WhatsApp account just got deactivated because it's connected to a Facebook account and the Facebook account is, or like I'm using it on the same phone as a Facebook account where like we made some enforcement mistake and thought you were doing something bad that you weren't because our classifiers were set to too low of precision.
It's like, okay, you're going about your day and then one day you wake up and you're like, oh, my WhatsApp account just got deactivated because it's connected to a Facebook account and the Facebook account is, or like I'm using it on the same phone as a Facebook account where like we made some enforcement mistake and thought you were doing something bad that you weren't because our classifiers were set to too low of precision.
It's like, okay, you're going about your day and then one day you wake up and you're like, oh, my WhatsApp account just got deactivated because it's connected to a Facebook account and the Facebook account is, or like I'm using it on the same phone as a Facebook account where like we made some enforcement mistake and thought you were doing something bad that you weren't because our classifiers were set to too low of precision.
Has that happened before? No.
Has that happened before? No.
Has that happened before? No.
Not for memes, but go back to like a very severe thing. Like let's say someone is. Terrorists.
Not for memes, but go back to like a very severe thing. Like let's say someone is. Terrorists.
Not for memes, but go back to like a very severe thing. Like let's say someone is. Terrorists.
Let's say someone is like terrorist content. They're planning some attack.
Let's say someone is like terrorist content. They're planning some attack.
Let's say someone is like terrorist content. They're planning some attack.
So we take down their account. Right. But then let's say that person can just go then sign up with another account.
So we take down their account. Right. But then let's say that person can just go then sign up with another account.
So we take down their account. Right. But then let's say that person can just go then sign up with another account.
Oh, well, if it's I mean, we run these different services and if they're on the same phone, it's basically, you know, it's one thing that, you know, it's basically regulators or governments will come to us and say, OK, it's you're clearly not doing enough if you kick someone off for terrorism and they can just like sign up for another account on the phone. Right. OK.
Oh, well, if it's I mean, we run these different services and if they're on the same phone, it's basically, you know, it's one thing that, you know, it's basically regulators or governments will come to us and say, OK, it's you're clearly not doing enough if you kick someone off for terrorism and they can just like sign up for another account on the phone. Right. OK.
Oh, well, if it's I mean, we run these different services and if they're on the same phone, it's basically, you know, it's one thing that, you know, it's basically regulators or governments will come to us and say, OK, it's you're clearly not doing enough if you kick someone off for terrorism and they can just like sign up for another account on the phone. Right. OK.
You're also they also think, OK, well, we're not doing enough if we deactivate their Facebook account because they're like planning a terrorist attack. But we let them use all our other services. Right.
You're also they also think, OK, well, we're not doing enough if we deactivate their Facebook account because they're like planning a terrorist attack. But we let them use all our other services. Right.
You're also they also think, OK, well, we're not doing enough if we deactivate their Facebook account because they're like planning a terrorist attack. But we let them use all our other services. Right.
If you're aware. Yeah. So if our systems think that someone is a terrorist, then you probably need to deactivate their access to all the different accounts. Yeah, they can't get on threads. Threads, Instagram.
If you're aware. Yeah. So if our systems think that someone is a terrorist, then you probably need to deactivate their access to all the different accounts. Yeah, they can't get on threads. Threads, Instagram.
If you're aware. Yeah. So if our systems think that someone is a terrorist, then you probably need to deactivate their access to all the different accounts. Yeah, they can't get on threads. Threads, Instagram.
Yeah, that makes sense. So you can understand how you get there, but then you just get to this question around the precision and the confidence level. And then you're just making all these mistakes at scale, and it's just unacceptable. But I think it's a very hard calculation of like, where do you want to be?
Yeah, that makes sense. So you can understand how you get there, but then you just get to this question around the precision and the confidence level. And then you're just making all these mistakes at scale, and it's just unacceptable. But I think it's a very hard calculation of like, where do you want to be?
Yeah, that makes sense. So you can understand how you get there, but then you just get to this question around the precision and the confidence level. And then you're just making all these mistakes at scale, and it's just unacceptable. But I think it's a very hard calculation of like, where do you want to be?
Because on the one hand, like, I get it why people kind of come to us and they're like, no, you need to do a better job finding more of the terrorism or the drugs and all this stuff. But over time, the technology will get better and it'll get more precise. But at any given point in time.
Because on the one hand, like, I get it why people kind of come to us and they're like, no, you need to do a better job finding more of the terrorism or the drugs and all this stuff. But over time, the technology will get better and it'll get more precise. But at any given point in time.
Because on the one hand, like, I get it why people kind of come to us and they're like, no, you need to do a better job finding more of the terrorism or the drugs and all this stuff. But over time, the technology will get better and it'll get more precise. But at any given point in time.
That's the choice that we have to make is do we want to make more mistakes erring on the side of just like blowing away innocent people's accounts? Right. Or do we want to get a somewhat higher percent of the bad stuff off? And I think that there's just some balance that you need to strike on this.
That's the choice that we have to make is do we want to make more mistakes erring on the side of just like blowing away innocent people's accounts? Right. Or do we want to get a somewhat higher percent of the bad stuff off? And I think that there's just some balance that you need to strike on this.
That's the choice that we have to make is do we want to make more mistakes erring on the side of just like blowing away innocent people's accounts? Right. Or do we want to get a somewhat higher percent of the bad stuff off? And I think that there's just some balance that you need to strike on this.
People can't actually believe this stuff. Right. It has to be that there's this kind of like massive. Misinformation out there. Some of it started with the the Russia collusion stuff, but it kind of morphed into different things over time.
People can't actually believe this stuff. Right. It has to be that there's this kind of like massive. Misinformation out there. Some of it started with the the Russia collusion stuff, but it kind of morphed into different things over time.
People can't actually believe this stuff. Right. It has to be that there's this kind of like massive. Misinformation out there. Some of it started with the the Russia collusion stuff, but it kind of morphed into different things over time.
Yeah, so I took this and just kind of assumed that everyone was acting in good faith. And I said, okay, well, there are concerns about misinformation. We should – just like when people raised other concerns in the past and we try to deal with them – Okay, yeah, people, you know, if you ask people, no one says that they want misinformation.
Yeah, so I took this and just kind of assumed that everyone was acting in good faith. And I said, okay, well, there are concerns about misinformation. We should – just like when people raised other concerns in the past and we try to deal with them – Okay, yeah, people, you know, if you ask people, no one says that they want misinformation.
Yeah, so I took this and just kind of assumed that everyone was acting in good faith. And I said, okay, well, there are concerns about misinformation. We should – just like when people raised other concerns in the past and we try to deal with them – Okay, yeah, people, you know, if you ask people, no one says that they want misinformation.
Yeah. A lot of what we've seen, too, I mean, there's the anonymous accounts. Also, just over time, I think a lot of the kind of more interesting conversations have shifted from the public sphere to more private ones. So WhatsApp groups, private groups on Facebook.
Yeah. A lot of what we've seen, too, I mean, there's the anonymous accounts. Also, just over time, I think a lot of the kind of more interesting conversations have shifted from the public sphere to more private ones. So WhatsApp groups, private groups on Facebook.
Yeah. A lot of what we've seen, too, I mean, there's the anonymous accounts. Also, just over time, I think a lot of the kind of more interesting conversations have shifted from the public sphere to more private ones. So WhatsApp groups, private groups on Facebook.
I'm sure you have this experience where maybe 10 years ago you would have posted your kind of quick takes on whatever social media you're using. Now, you know, the stuff that I post on Facebook and Instagram, it's like I put time into making sure that that's kind of good content that I want to be seen broadly.
I'm sure you have this experience where maybe 10 years ago you would have posted your kind of quick takes on whatever social media you're using. Now, you know, the stuff that I post on Facebook and Instagram, it's like I put time into making sure that that's kind of good content that I want to be seen broadly.
I'm sure you have this experience where maybe 10 years ago you would have posted your kind of quick takes on whatever social media you're using. Now, you know, the stuff that I post on Facebook and Instagram, it's like I put time into making sure that that's kind of good content that I want to be seen broadly.
And then like most of the jokes that I make are like with my friends and WhatsApp in groups. So, yeah, I think that's sort of that's kind of where the world is more broadly now.
And then like most of the jokes that I make are like with my friends and WhatsApp in groups. So, yeah, I think that's sort of that's kind of where the world is more broadly now.
And then like most of the jokes that I make are like with my friends and WhatsApp in groups. So, yeah, I think that's sort of that's kind of where the world is more broadly now.
Yeah, and that's why that side of things, the kind of governments running these broad manipulation campaigns, I mean, we're not letting off the gas on that at all. I think most categories of bad stuff that we're policing, everyone agrees is bad. No one's sitting there defending that terrorism is good or child exploitation or drugs or IP violations or people inciting violence.
Yeah, and that's why that side of things, the kind of governments running these broad manipulation campaigns, I mean, we're not letting off the gas on that at all. I think most categories of bad stuff that we're policing, everyone agrees is bad. No one's sitting there defending that terrorism is good or child exploitation or drugs or IP violations or people inciting violence.
Yeah, and that's why that side of things, the kind of governments running these broad manipulation campaigns, I mean, we're not letting off the gas on that at all. I think most categories of bad stuff that we're policing, everyone agrees is bad. No one's sitting there defending that terrorism is good or child exploitation or drugs or IP violations or people inciting violence.
It's like most of the stuff is bad. People clearly believe that... that election interference and foreign government manipulation of content is bad. This is the type of stuff that the vast majority of our energy goes towards that, and we're not changing our approach on any of that. The two categories
It's like most of the stuff is bad. People clearly believe that... that election interference and foreign government manipulation of content is bad. This is the type of stuff that the vast majority of our energy goes towards that, and we're not changing our approach on any of that. The two categories
It's like most of the stuff is bad. People clearly believe that... that election interference and foreign government manipulation of content is bad. This is the type of stuff that the vast majority of our energy goes towards that, and we're not changing our approach on any of that. The two categories
that I think have been very politicized are misinformation, because who gets to judge what's false and what's true? You may just not like my opinion on something, and then people think it's false, but I think that that one's really tricky. And the other one is basically what people refer to as hate speech.
that I think have been very politicized are misinformation, because who gets to judge what's false and what's true? You may just not like my opinion on something, and then people think it's false, but I think that that one's really tricky. And the other one is basically what people refer to as hate speech.
that I think have been very politicized are misinformation, because who gets to judge what's false and what's true? You may just not like my opinion on something, and then people think it's false, but I think that that one's really tricky. And the other one is basically what people refer to as hate speech.
which I think also comes from a good place of wanting to crack down on that, of wanting to promote more inclusion and belonging and people feeling good and having a pluralistic society that can... that can basically have all these different communities coexist.
which I think also comes from a good place of wanting to crack down on that, of wanting to promote more inclusion and belonging and people feeling good and having a pluralistic society that can... that can basically have all these different communities coexist.
which I think also comes from a good place of wanting to crack down on that, of wanting to promote more inclusion and belonging and people feeling good and having a pluralistic society that can... that can basically have all these different communities coexist.
But I think the problem is that all these things are on a spectrum, and when you go too far on them, I think on that side, we just basically got to this point where... there were these things that you just couldn't say, which were mainstream discourse, right? So it's like Pete Hegseth is going to probably be defending his nomination for Secretary of Defense on the Senate floor.
But I think the problem is that all these things are on a spectrum, and when you go too far on them, I think on that side, we just basically got to this point where... there were these things that you just couldn't say, which were mainstream discourse, right? So it's like Pete Hegseth is going to probably be defending his nomination for Secretary of Defense on the Senate floor.
But I think the problem is that all these things are on a spectrum, and when you go too far on them, I think on that side, we just basically got to this point where... there were these things that you just couldn't say, which were mainstream discourse, right? So it's like Pete Hegseth is going to probably be defending his nomination for Secretary of Defense on the Senate floor.
So maybe there's something that we should do to basically try to address this. But I was really worried from the beginning about basically becoming this sort of decider of what is true in the world. That's kind of a crazy position to be in for billions of people using your service. And so we tried to put in place a system that would deal with it.
So maybe there's something that we should do to basically try to address this. But I was really worried from the beginning about basically becoming this sort of decider of what is true in the world. That's kind of a crazy position to be in for billions of people using your service. And so we tried to put in place a system that would deal with it.
So maybe there's something that we should do to basically try to address this. But I was really worried from the beginning about basically becoming this sort of decider of what is true in the world. That's kind of a crazy position to be in for billions of people using your service. And so we tried to put in place a system that would deal with it.
And I think one of the points that he's made is that he thinks that women shouldn't be able to be in certain combat roles. And until we updated our policies, that wouldn't have been a thing that you could have said on our platforms because it would call for the exclusion of a protected category of people. And- So and it's like, OK, like on its on its face. Yeah.
And I think one of the points that he's made is that he thinks that women shouldn't be able to be in certain combat roles. And until we updated our policies, that wouldn't have been a thing that you could have said on our platforms because it would call for the exclusion of a protected category of people. And- So and it's like, OK, like on its on its face. Yeah.
And I think one of the points that he's made is that he thinks that women shouldn't be able to be in certain combat roles. And until we updated our policies, that wouldn't have been a thing that you could have said on our platforms because it would call for the exclusion of a protected category of people. And- So and it's like, OK, like on its on its face. Yeah.
Calling for the exclusion of a protected category. That seems like that's OK. There's like legal protections. There's all the stuff. But, OK, if it's like OK to say on the floor of Congress, you should probably be able to debate it on social media. So so I think some of the stuff I think well-intentioned went too far, needs to just get rationalized a bit.
Calling for the exclusion of a protected category. That seems like that's OK. There's like legal protections. There's all the stuff. But, OK, if it's like OK to say on the floor of Congress, you should probably be able to debate it on social media. So so I think some of the stuff I think well-intentioned went too far, needs to just get rationalized a bit.
Calling for the exclusion of a protected category. That seems like that's OK. There's like legal protections. There's all the stuff. But, OK, if it's like OK to say on the floor of Congress, you should probably be able to debate it on social media. So so I think some of the stuff I think well-intentioned went too far, needs to just get rationalized a bit.
But but it's those two categories, misinformation and hate speech, I think, are the ones that got politicized. All the other ones, which is the vast majority of the stuff that we do, is I think people generally agree that it's good and we need to go after it. But then you just get into this problem of the mistakes like you're talking about.
But but it's those two categories, misinformation and hate speech, I think, are the ones that got politicized. All the other ones, which is the vast majority of the stuff that we do, is I think people generally agree that it's good and we need to go after it. But then you just get into this problem of the mistakes like you're talking about.
But but it's those two categories, misinformation and hate speech, I think, are the ones that got politicized. All the other ones, which is the vast majority of the stuff that we do, is I think people generally agree that it's good and we need to go after it. But then you just get into this problem of the mistakes like you're talking about.
Okay, well, what confidence level do people want us to have in our enforcement? And at what point would people rather us kind of say, okay, I'm not sure that that one is causing an issue necessarily. So on balance, maybe we should just leave that person's account out because the pain of just nuking someone's account when you're not sure or you make a mistake is like that's pretty real too.
Okay, well, what confidence level do people want us to have in our enforcement? And at what point would people rather us kind of say, okay, I'm not sure that that one is causing an issue necessarily. So on balance, maybe we should just leave that person's account out because the pain of just nuking someone's account when you're not sure or you make a mistake is like that's pretty real too.
Okay, well, what confidence level do people want us to have in our enforcement? And at what point would people rather us kind of say, okay, I'm not sure that that one is causing an issue necessarily. So on balance, maybe we should just leave that person's account out because the pain of just nuking someone's account when you're not sure or you make a mistake is like that's pretty real too.
Yeah, I mean the causality there is tricky because there's a lot of things.
Yeah, I mean the causality there is tricky because there's a lot of things.
Yeah, I mean the causality there is tricky because there's a lot of things.
You know, and early on tried to basically make it so that it was really limited. We're like, all right, we're just going to have the system where there's these third party fact checkers and they can check the worst of the worst stuff. Right.
You know, and early on tried to basically make it so that it was really limited. We're like, all right, we're just going to have the system where there's these third party fact checkers and they can check the worst of the worst stuff. Right.
You know, and early on tried to basically make it so that it was really limited. We're like, all right, we're just going to have the system where there's these third party fact checkers and they can check the worst of the worst stuff. Right.
Yeah, it's tough to know. I mean I do come back to this point that every major incumbent lost their elections around the world this year. But I think that's also because of social media. It might be because of that revealing how kind of – incorrect and dishonest, I think, some of these governments were.
Yeah, it's tough to know. I mean I do come back to this point that every major incumbent lost their elections around the world this year. But I think that's also because of social media. It might be because of that revealing how kind of – incorrect and dishonest, I think, some of these governments were.
Yeah, it's tough to know. I mean I do come back to this point that every major incumbent lost their elections around the world this year. But I think that's also because of social media. It might be because of that revealing how kind of – incorrect and dishonest, I think, some of these governments were.
Yeah. So I think that that's quite possible. And I mean, I do think that there is this cycle that goes on where, you know, within a society, it's not just the government that has power. There's like certain people who are in these like culturally elite positions and, you know, journalists, TV, news anchors, like who are the people who people broadly trust, right? They're not all in government.
Yeah. So I think that that's quite possible. And I mean, I do think that there is this cycle that goes on where, you know, within a society, it's not just the government that has power. There's like certain people who are in these like culturally elite positions and, you know, journalists, TV, news anchors, like who are the people who people broadly trust, right? They're not all in government.
Yeah. So I think that that's quite possible. And I mean, I do think that there is this cycle that goes on where, you know, within a society, it's not just the government that has power. There's like certain people who are in these like culturally elite positions and, you know, journalists, TV, news anchors, like who are the people who people broadly trust, right? They're not all in government.
They're like a lot of people, you um, in other positions, it's like, who are the people that, that, uh, basically people look to. And, um, I think that's basically, it needs to shift for the internet age. And I think a lot of the people who people look to before, they're kind of realizing, hey, they weren't super honest about a lot of these issues that we face.
They're like a lot of people, you um, in other positions, it's like, who are the people that, that, uh, basically people look to. And, um, I think that's basically, it needs to shift for the internet age. And I think a lot of the people who people look to before, they're kind of realizing, hey, they weren't super honest about a lot of these issues that we face.
They're like a lot of people, you um, in other positions, it's like, who are the people that, that, uh, basically people look to. And, um, I think that's basically, it needs to shift for the internet age. And I think a lot of the people who people look to before, they're kind of realizing, hey, they weren't super honest about a lot of these issues that we face.
And that's partially why social media isn't a monolithic thing. It's not that people trust Facebook or X. They trust the creators and the voices that they feel like are being authentic and giving them valuable information on there. So there's, I think, going to be
And that's partially why social media isn't a monolithic thing. It's not that people trust Facebook or X. They trust the creators and the voices that they feel like are being authentic and giving them valuable information on there. So there's, I think, going to be
And that's partially why social media isn't a monolithic thing. It's not that people trust Facebook or X. They trust the creators and the voices that they feel like are being authentic and giving them valuable information on there. So there's, I think, going to be
Just this whole new class of creators who basically become the new kind of cultural elites that people look at and are like, OK, these are the people who give it to me straight. And I think that that's that's a thing that is maybe it's possible because of social media. I think it's also just the Internet more broadly. I think podcasting is obviously a huge and important part of that, too.
Just this whole new class of creators who basically become the new kind of cultural elites that people look at and are like, OK, these are the people who give it to me straight. And I think that that's that's a thing that is maybe it's possible because of social media. I think it's also just the Internet more broadly. I think podcasting is obviously a huge and important part of that, too.
Just this whole new class of creators who basically become the new kind of cultural elites that people look at and are like, OK, these are the people who give it to me straight. And I think that that's that's a thing that is maybe it's possible because of social media. I think it's also just the Internet more broadly. I think podcasting is obviously a huge and important part of that, too.
But, you know, but look, I mean. I've been working on this for a long time. So, I mean, you got to do what you think is right. You know, we've been on a long journey here, right? I mean, it's... And I think at some level, you start... You only start one of these companies if you believe in giving people a voice, right?
But, you know, but look, I mean. I've been working on this for a long time. So, I mean, you got to do what you think is right. You know, we've been on a long journey here, right? I mean, it's... And I think at some level, you start... You only start one of these companies if you believe in giving people a voice, right?
But, you know, but look, I mean. I've been working on this for a long time. So, I mean, you got to do what you think is right. You know, we've been on a long journey here, right? I mean, it's... And I think at some level, you start... You only start one of these companies if you believe in giving people a voice, right?
So things that are very clear hoaxes that there's like it's not like like we're not parsing speech about whether something is slightly true or slightly false, like Earth is flat, you know, things like that. Right. So that was sort of the original intent. Right. We put in place the system and it just sort of veered from there.
So things that are very clear hoaxes that there's like it's not like like we're not parsing speech about whether something is slightly true or slightly false, like Earth is flat, you know, things like that. Right. So that was sort of the original intent. Right. We put in place the system and it just sort of veered from there.
So things that are very clear hoaxes that there's like it's not like like we're not parsing speech about whether something is slightly true or slightly false, like Earth is flat, you know, things like that. Right. So that was sort of the original intent. Right. We put in place the system and it just sort of veered from there.
I don't know to what extent you feel like you got to be large because of social media or just the podcasting platforms that you used. But I think that this is a very big sea change in terms of who are the voices that matter. And what we do is we try to build a platform that gives people a voice. But I think that there's this wholesale generational shift
I don't know to what extent you feel like you got to be large because of social media or just the podcasting platforms that you used. But I think that this is a very big sea change in terms of who are the voices that matter. And what we do is we try to build a platform that gives people a voice. But I think that there's this wholesale generational shift
I don't know to what extent you feel like you got to be large because of social media or just the podcasting platforms that you used. But I think that this is a very big sea change in terms of who are the voices that matter. And what we do is we try to build a platform that gives people a voice. But I think that there's this wholesale generational shift
And who are the people who are being listened to? And I think that that's, like, a very fascinating thing that is going on because I think that that's, like, what's going on here. It's not just the government and people saying, hey, we want, like, a very big change here. I think it's just, like, a wholesale shift in saying –
And who are the people who are being listened to? And I think that that's, like, a very fascinating thing that is going on because I think that that's, like, what's going on here. It's not just the government and people saying, hey, we want, like, a very big change here. I think it's just, like, a wholesale shift in saying –
And who are the people who are being listened to? And I think that that's, like, a very fascinating thing that is going on because I think that that's, like, what's going on here. It's not just the government and people saying, hey, we want, like, a very big change here. I think it's just, like, a wholesale shift in saying –
We just want different people who we actually trust, who are actually going to tell us the truth and not give us the bullshit opinions that you're supposed to say, but the type of stuff that I would actually, like when I'm sitting in my living room with my friends, the stuff that we know is true. Who are the people who kind of have the courage to actually just say that stuff? I don't know.
We just want different people who we actually trust, who are actually going to tell us the truth and not give us the bullshit opinions that you're supposed to say, but the type of stuff that I would actually, like when I'm sitting in my living room with my friends, the stuff that we know is true. Who are the people who kind of have the courage to actually just say that stuff? I don't know.
We just want different people who we actually trust, who are actually going to tell us the truth and not give us the bullshit opinions that you're supposed to say, but the type of stuff that I would actually, like when I'm sitting in my living room with my friends, the stuff that we know is true. Who are the people who kind of have the courage to actually just say that stuff? I don't know.
I think that whole cultural elite class needs to get repopulated with people who people actually trust.
I think that whole cultural elite class needs to get repopulated with people who people actually trust.
I think that whole cultural elite class needs to get repopulated with people who people actually trust.
I mean, I'm sure you know the history on this. It's like when people transition from radio to TV, the initial TV anchors were the same radio people, but just like being filmed while speaking on the radio. But it turned out it actually was a completely different type of person that you need because on your radio is just like your voice and your cadence and all that.
I mean, I'm sure you know the history on this. It's like when people transition from radio to TV, the initial TV anchors were the same radio people, but just like being filmed while speaking on the radio. But it turned out it actually was a completely different type of person that you need because on your radio is just like your voice and your cadence and all that.
I mean, I'm sure you know the history on this. It's like when people transition from radio to TV, the initial TV anchors were the same radio people, but just like being filmed while speaking on the radio. But it turned out it actually was a completely different type of person that you need because on your radio is just like your voice and your cadence and all that.
It's like, you know, the whole phrase. It's like you've got a good radio voice. Right. It's like.
It's like, you know, the whole phrase. It's like you've got a good radio voice. Right. It's like.
It's like, you know, the whole phrase. It's like you've got a good radio voice. Right. It's like.
OK, on TV, you need to be telegenic, right? You need to kind of have charisma in that medium. It's like a completely different thing. And I think that that's going to be true for the Internet, too. It's you know, it's not as cut. I think part of it is the format, right? The fact that you do these like two, three hour episodes. I mean.
OK, on TV, you need to be telegenic, right? You need to kind of have charisma in that medium. It's like a completely different thing. And I think that that's going to be true for the Internet, too. It's you know, it's not as cut. I think part of it is the format, right? The fact that you do these like two, three hour episodes. I mean.
OK, on TV, you need to be telegenic, right? You need to kind of have charisma in that medium. It's like a completely different thing. And I think that that's going to be true for the Internet, too. It's you know, it's not as cut. I think part of it is the format, right? The fact that you do these like two, three hour episodes. I mean.
I think to some degree, it's because some of the people whose job is to do fact checking, a lot of their industry is focused on political fact checking. So they're just kind of veered in that direction. And we kept on trying to basically get it to be what we had originally intended, which is just, you know, it's not the point is into like, judge people's opinions.
I think to some degree, it's because some of the people whose job is to do fact checking, a lot of their industry is focused on political fact checking. So they're just kind of veered in that direction. And we kept on trying to basically get it to be what we had originally intended, which is just, you know, it's not the point is into like, judge people's opinions.
I think to some degree, it's because some of the people whose job is to do fact checking, a lot of their industry is focused on political fact checking. So they're just kind of veered in that direction. And we kept on trying to basically get it to be what we had originally intended, which is just, you know, it's not the point is into like, judge people's opinions.
I hated doing TV because, you know, I basically got started... I started Facebook when I was 19. And I was good at some things, very bad at others. I was good at coding and, like, real bad at kind of, like, talking to people and explaining what I was doing. And I just, like, had these experiences early on where...
I hated doing TV because, you know, I basically got started... I started Facebook when I was 19. And I was good at some things, very bad at others. I was good at coding and, like, real bad at kind of, like, talking to people and explaining what I was doing. And I just, like, had these experiences early on where...
I hated doing TV because, you know, I basically got started... I started Facebook when I was 19. And I was good at some things, very bad at others. I was good at coding and, like, real bad at kind of, like, talking to people and explaining what I was doing. And I just, like, had these experiences early on where...
I'd go on TV and it wouldn't go well and they'd cut it down to some random soundbite and I'd look stupid. And then basically I'd get super nervous about going on TV because I knew that they were just going to cut it in some way that I was going to look like a fucking idiot. And so I'm just like, this sucks, right? So I just like... It's kind of a funny thing. In some ways, it's like, okay.
I'd go on TV and it wouldn't go well and they'd cut it down to some random soundbite and I'd look stupid. And then basically I'd get super nervous about going on TV because I knew that they were just going to cut it in some way that I was going to look like a fucking idiot. And so I'm just like, this sucks, right? So I just like... It's kind of a funny thing. In some ways, it's like, okay.
I'd go on TV and it wouldn't go well and they'd cut it down to some random soundbite and I'd look stupid. And then basically I'd get super nervous about going on TV because I knew that they were just going to cut it in some way that I was going to look like a fucking idiot. And so I'm just like, this sucks, right? So I just like... It's kind of a funny thing. In some ways, it's like, okay.
At the same time, I was gaining confidence being able to build more and more complicated products. Even as an early 20s person, I was like, I could do this. Then on the TV and comms public side, I was like, this is a disaster. Every time I go out, it's worse and worse and worse. It's one of the reasons why I think on the internet,
At the same time, I was gaining confidence being able to build more and more complicated products. Even as an early 20s person, I was like, I could do this. Then on the TV and comms public side, I was like, this is a disaster. Every time I go out, it's worse and worse and worse. It's one of the reasons why I think on the internet,
At the same time, I was gaining confidence being able to build more and more complicated products. Even as an early 20s person, I was like, I could do this. Then on the TV and comms public side, I was like, this is a disaster. Every time I go out, it's worse and worse and worse. It's one of the reasons why I think on the internet,
Like there's no reason to cut it to a four minute soundbite conversation. It's like part of what what makes it authentic is like we can just I mean, these are complex issues. We can unpack it for hours and probably still have hours more stuff to talk about. It just it's I don't know.
Like there's no reason to cut it to a four minute soundbite conversation. It's like part of what what makes it authentic is like we can just I mean, these are complex issues. We can unpack it for hours and probably still have hours more stuff to talk about. It just it's I don't know.
Like there's no reason to cut it to a four minute soundbite conversation. It's like part of what what makes it authentic is like we can just I mean, these are complex issues. We can unpack it for hours and probably still have hours more stuff to talk about. It just it's I don't know.
Yeah, and also, like, when you're having a conversation, like, I don't know, it's like when you start talking about something, your kind of subconscious kicks in. You start thinking about the topic. So it's like you might not actually have the thing that you want to say until, like, five minutes later. Right, right.
Yeah, and also, like, when you're having a conversation, like, I don't know, it's like when you start talking about something, your kind of subconscious kicks in. You start thinking about the topic. So it's like you might not actually have the thing that you want to say until, like, five minutes later. Right, right.
Yeah, and also, like, when you're having a conversation, like, I don't know, it's like when you start talking about something, your kind of subconscious kicks in. You start thinking about the topic. So it's like you might not actually have the thing that you want to say until, like, five minutes later. Right, right.
I mean, it's like when we started this conversation, I think, like, the first few minutes were just kind of slow. It's, like, warming up. I'm like, okay, kind of, like, downloading into my memory. Like, how am I going to, like, you know, it's like how am I going to, you know, just explain these different – Yeah, I just think that's sort of how people work.
I mean, it's like when we started this conversation, I think, like, the first few minutes were just kind of slow. It's, like, warming up. I'm like, okay, kind of, like, downloading into my memory. Like, how am I going to, like, you know, it's like how am I going to, you know, just explain these different – Yeah, I just think that's sort of how people work.
I mean, it's like when we started this conversation, I think, like, the first few minutes were just kind of slow. It's, like, warming up. I'm like, okay, kind of, like, downloading into my memory. Like, how am I going to, like, you know, it's like how am I going to, you know, just explain these different – Yeah, I just think that's sort of how people work.
It's to provide in this layer to kind of help fact check some of the stuff that seems the most extreme. But it just, you know, it was just never accepted by people broadly. I think people just felt like the fact checkers were too biased. And not necessarily even so much in what they ruled, although sometimes I think people would disagree with that.
It's to provide in this layer to kind of help fact check some of the stuff that seems the most extreme. But it just, you know, it was just never accepted by people broadly. I think people just felt like the fact checkers were too biased. And not necessarily even so much in what they ruled, although sometimes I think people would disagree with that.
It's to provide in this layer to kind of help fact check some of the stuff that seems the most extreme. But it just, you know, it was just never accepted by people broadly. I think people just felt like the fact checkers were too biased. And not necessarily even so much in what they ruled, although sometimes I think people would disagree with that.
I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of the people I've met there I think are good people.
I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of the people I've met there I think are good people.
I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of the people I've met there I think are good people.
It's just a tough format.
It's just a tough format.
It's just a tough format.
I don't think that the pushing for social media companies to censor stuff was legal. I mean, there's all this stuff about what, like, people talk about the First Amendment and, okay, these tech platforms should offer free speech like the First Amendment. That, I think, is a philosophical principle. The First Amendment doesn't apply to companies in our content moderation.
I don't think that the pushing for social media companies to censor stuff was legal. I mean, there's all this stuff about what, like, people talk about the First Amendment and, okay, these tech platforms should offer free speech like the First Amendment. That, I think, is a philosophical principle. The First Amendment doesn't apply to companies in our content moderation.
I don't think that the pushing for social media companies to censor stuff was legal. I mean, there's all this stuff about what, like, people talk about the First Amendment and, okay, these tech platforms should offer free speech like the First Amendment. That, I think, is a philosophical principle. The First Amendment doesn't apply to companies in our content moderation.
It's more of an American ethos about how we think that best dialogue is carried out. But the First Amendment does apply to the government. That's the whole point, right, is the government is not allowed to censor this stuff. So at some level, I do think that having people in the administration calling up the guys on our team and yelling at them and cursing and
It's more of an American ethos about how we think that best dialogue is carried out. But the First Amendment does apply to the government. That's the whole point, right, is the government is not allowed to censor this stuff. So at some level, I do think that having people in the administration calling up the guys on our team and yelling at them and cursing and
It's more of an American ethos about how we think that best dialogue is carried out. But the First Amendment does apply to the government. That's the whole point, right, is the government is not allowed to censor this stuff. So at some level, I do think that having people in the administration calling up the guys on our team and yelling at them and cursing and
threatening repercussions if we don't take down things that are true is like, it's pretty bad.
threatening repercussions if we don't take down things that are true is like, it's pretty bad.
threatening repercussions if we don't take down things that are true is like, it's pretty bad.
A lot of the material is public. I mean, Jim Jordan led this whole investigation in Congress. I mean, it was basically, I think about this as like, You know, what Elon did on the Twitter files when he took over that company, I think Jim Jordan basically did that for the rest of the industry with the congressional investigation that he did.
A lot of the material is public. I mean, Jim Jordan led this whole investigation in Congress. I mean, it was basically, I think about this as like, You know, what Elon did on the Twitter files when he took over that company, I think Jim Jordan basically did that for the rest of the industry with the congressional investigation that he did.
A lot of the material is public. I mean, Jim Jordan led this whole investigation in Congress. I mean, it was basically, I think about this as like, You know, what Elon did on the Twitter files when he took over that company, I think Jim Jordan basically did that for the rest of the industry with the congressional investigation that he did.
And we just turned over, like, all of the documents and everything that we had to them, and they basically put together this report.
And we just turned over, like, all of the documents and everything that we had to them, and they basically put together this report.
And we just turned over, like, all of the documents and everything that we had to them, and they basically put together this report.
A lot of the time, it was just what types of things they chose to even go and fact check in the first place. So I kind of think, like, after having gone through that whole exercise, it – I don't know, it's something out of like, you know, 1984, one of these books where it's just like, it really is a slippery slope.
A lot of the time, it was just what types of things they chose to even go and fact check in the first place. So I kind of think, like, after having gone through that whole exercise, it – I don't know, it's something out of like, you know, 1984, one of these books where it's just like, it really is a slippery slope.
A lot of the time, it was just what types of things they chose to even go and fact check in the first place. So I kind of think, like, after having gone through that whole exercise, it – I don't know, it's something out of like, you know, 1984, one of these books where it's just like, it really is a slippery slope.
To what? To the investigation?
To what? To the investigation?
To what? To the investigation?
I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, they lost the election.
I mean, they lost the election.
I mean, they lost the election.
Yeah, well, the COVID thing, I don't think it was election interference as much as it was just like government meddling where it shouldn't have. But yeah, no, I mean, it's tougher for me to say, you know, like what specific retribution or justice should happen to anyone who is involved in these things. But I think your point about...
Yeah, well, the COVID thing, I don't think it was election interference as much as it was just like government meddling where it shouldn't have. But yeah, no, I mean, it's tougher for me to say, you know, like what specific retribution or justice should happen to anyone who is involved in these things. But I think your point about...
Yeah, well, the COVID thing, I don't think it was election interference as much as it was just like government meddling where it shouldn't have. But yeah, no, I mean, it's tougher for me to say, you know, like what specific retribution or justice should happen to anyone who is involved in these things. But I think your point about...
let's make sure this doesn't happen again, is the one that I'm more focused on. Because it's the thing that I reflect on on my journey on all this, which is like, okay, yeah, so we didn't take down the stuff that was true, but we did generally defer to the government on some of these policies that in retrospect I probably wouldn't knowing what I know now. And
let's make sure this doesn't happen again, is the one that I'm more focused on. Because it's the thing that I reflect on on my journey on all this, which is like, okay, yeah, so we didn't take down the stuff that was true, but we did generally defer to the government on some of these policies that in retrospect I probably wouldn't knowing what I know now. And
let's make sure this doesn't happen again, is the one that I'm more focused on. Because it's the thing that I reflect on on my journey on all this, which is like, okay, yeah, so we didn't take down the stuff that was true, but we did generally defer to the government on some of these policies that in retrospect I probably wouldn't knowing what I know now. And
I just think that that's that's sort of the journey that we've been on is like, OK, we start the thing focused on free expression, go through some like pretty crazy times in the world, get it pressure tested, see where we basically ended up doing stuff that led to a slippery slope that we weren't happy with the conclusion and like try to reset. And that's sort of the moment that we're at now.
I just think that that's that's sort of the journey that we've been on is like, OK, we start the thing focused on free expression, go through some like pretty crazy times in the world, get it pressure tested, see where we basically ended up doing stuff that led to a slippery slope that we weren't happy with the conclusion and like try to reset. And that's sort of the moment that we're at now.
I just think that that's that's sort of the journey that we've been on is like, OK, we start the thing focused on free expression, go through some like pretty crazy times in the world, get it pressure tested, see where we basically ended up doing stuff that led to a slippery slope that we weren't happy with the conclusion and like try to reset. And that's sort of the moment that we're at now.
is trying to just rationalize a bunch of the policies. And look, I mean, obviously crazy things can happen in the future that might unearth something that I haven't, you know, some kind of angle on this that I haven't thought enough about yet. So... I'm sure I'm not done making mistakes in the world. But I think at this point, we have a much more thorough understanding of what the space is.
is trying to just rationalize a bunch of the policies. And look, I mean, obviously crazy things can happen in the future that might unearth something that I haven't, you know, some kind of angle on this that I haven't thought enough about yet. So... I'm sure I'm not done making mistakes in the world. But I think at this point, we have a much more thorough understanding of what the space is.
is trying to just rationalize a bunch of the policies. And look, I mean, obviously crazy things can happen in the future that might unearth something that I haven't, you know, some kind of angle on this that I haven't thought enough about yet. So... I'm sure I'm not done making mistakes in the world. But I think at this point, we have a much more thorough understanding of what the space is.
And I think our kind of values and principles on this are likely going to be much more durable going forward. And I think that that's probably a good thing for the Internet. I think it's great.
And I think our kind of values and principles on this are likely going to be much more durable going forward. And I think that that's probably a good thing for the Internet. I think it's great.
And I think our kind of values and principles on this are likely going to be much more durable going forward. And I think that that's probably a good thing for the Internet. I think it's great.
And it just got to a point where it's just, okay, this is destroying so much trust, especially in the United States to have this program. And I guess it was probably about a few years that I really started coming to the conclusion that we were going to need to change something about that. COVID was the other big one where... That was also very tricky because, you know,
And it just got to a point where it's just, okay, this is destroying so much trust, especially in the United States to have this program. And I guess it was probably about a few years that I really started coming to the conclusion that we were going to need to change something about that. COVID was the other big one where... That was also very tricky because, you know,
And it just got to a point where it's just, okay, this is destroying so much trust, especially in the United States to have this program. And I guess it was probably about a few years that I really started coming to the conclusion that we were going to need to change something about that. COVID was the other big one where... That was also very tricky because, you know,
I mean, he's like, talk about like an amazing entrepreneur, right? It's like, I just want, like, because I control our company, I have the benefit of not having to convince the board not to fire me. It's like a normal corporate environment. It's like basically the CEO just tries to like – they're just trying to convince the board to like let them have their job and pay them more.
I mean, he's like, talk about like an amazing entrepreneur, right? It's like, I just want, like, because I control our company, I have the benefit of not having to convince the board not to fire me. It's like a normal corporate environment. It's like basically the CEO just tries to like – they're just trying to convince the board to like let them have their job and pay them more.
I mean, he's like, talk about like an amazing entrepreneur, right? It's like, I just want, like, because I control our company, I have the benefit of not having to convince the board not to fire me. It's like a normal corporate environment. It's like basically the CEO just tries to like – they're just trying to convince the board to like let them have their job and pay them more.
It's like, all right, the board doesn't pay me except for security. And and I'm not worried about losing my job because I control the majority of the voting in the company. So I actually get to use our board to like have the smartest people who I can get to have around me help work on these problems. So it's like, all right, who are the people I want?
It's like, all right, the board doesn't pay me except for security. And and I'm not worried about losing my job because I control the majority of the voting in the company. So I actually get to use our board to like have the smartest people who I can get to have around me help work on these problems. So it's like, all right, who are the people I want?
It's like, all right, the board doesn't pay me except for security. And and I'm not worried about losing my job because I control the majority of the voting in the company. So I actually get to use our board to like have the smartest people who I can get to have around me help work on these problems. So it's like, all right, who are the people I want?
Like, I just want like the best entrepreneurs and people have created different things. And like, I mean, Dana is like this guy. I mean, he basically took the sport from being this like, I think it was viewed as like this pretty marginal thing when he got started, right? I think John McCain was trying to outlaw it.
Like, I just want like the best entrepreneurs and people have created different things. And like, I mean, Dana is like this guy. I mean, he basically took the sport from being this like, I think it was viewed as like this pretty marginal thing when he got started, right? I think John McCain was trying to outlaw it.
Like, I just want like the best entrepreneurs and people have created different things. And like, I mean, Dana is like this guy. I mean, he basically took the sport from being this like, I think it was viewed as like this pretty marginal thing when he got started, right? I think John McCain was trying to outlaw it.
And now it's like, I think it and F1 are the two fastest growing sports in the world. It's got hundreds of millions of people viewing it. It's like, I mean, what Dana's done with the UFC is like one of the most legendary business stories ever. And, um, and the brand is beloved. And, and I think he's just, um, so he's like a world-class entrepreneur and he's just like a, he's got a strong backbone.
And now it's like, I think it and F1 are the two fastest growing sports in the world. It's got hundreds of millions of people viewing it. It's like, I mean, what Dana's done with the UFC is like one of the most legendary business stories ever. And, um, and the brand is beloved. And, and I think he's just, um, so he's like a world-class entrepreneur and he's just like a, he's got a strong backbone.
And now it's like, I think it and F1 are the two fastest growing sports in the world. It's got hundreds of millions of people viewing it. It's like, I mean, what Dana's done with the UFC is like one of the most legendary business stories ever. And, um, and the brand is beloved. And, and I think he's just, um, so he's like a world-class entrepreneur and he's just like a, he's got a strong backbone.
And I think part of what the conversation that I had with him around joining our board was okay. Like, we have a lot of governments and folks around the world putting a lot of pressure on our company. And like, we need some like strong people who are going to basically, you know, help, help advise us on how to handle some of these situations. And, and so, yeah.
And I think part of what the conversation that I had with him around joining our board was okay. Like, we have a lot of governments and folks around the world putting a lot of pressure on our company. And like, we need some like strong people who are going to basically, you know, help, help advise us on how to handle some of these situations. And, and so, yeah.
And I think part of what the conversation that I had with him around joining our board was okay. Like, we have a lot of governments and folks around the world putting a lot of pressure on our company. And like, we need some like strong people who are going to basically, you know, help, help advise us on how to handle some of these situations. And, and so, yeah.
But, yeah, I mean, running this company is not for the faint of heart. I mean, there's definitely a lot of pressure from, like, all these different governments. And then it's like, okay, I could spend all my time doing that, but I'm not even a politician. Like, I just want to spend my time building things, right? So, yeah, I think Dana's going to be great.
But, yeah, I mean, running this company is not for the faint of heart. I mean, there's definitely a lot of pressure from, like, all these different governments. And then it's like, okay, I could spend all my time doing that, but I'm not even a politician. Like, I just want to spend my time building things, right? So, yeah, I think Dana's going to be great.
But, yeah, I mean, running this company is not for the faint of heart. I mean, there's definitely a lot of pressure from, like, all these different governments. And then it's like, okay, I could spend all my time doing that, but I'm not even a politician. Like, I just want to spend my time building things, right? So, yeah, I think Dana's going to be great.
At the beginning, it was, you know, it's like a legitimate public health crisis, you know, in the beginning. And it's, you know, even people who are like the most ardent First Amendment, you know, defenders, the Supreme Court has this clear precedent. It's like, all right, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. There are times when if there's an emergency...
At the beginning, it was, you know, it's like a legitimate public health crisis, you know, in the beginning. And it's, you know, even people who are like the most ardent First Amendment, you know, defenders, the Supreme Court has this clear precedent. It's like, all right, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. There are times when if there's an emergency...
At the beginning, it was, you know, it's like a legitimate public health crisis, you know, in the beginning. And it's, you know, even people who are like the most ardent First Amendment, you know, defenders, the Supreme Court has this clear precedent. It's like, all right, you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. There are times when if there's an emergency...
I do like Iron Neck. But it's... But when I started training, not just jujitsu, but striking, I was like, all right, I want to find a way to do this where I don't like, like hurt my brain. Right. Like I need to, I'm going to be running this company for a while. I would like to, you know, like stay, stay healthy and not take too much damage.
I do like Iron Neck. But it's... But when I started training, not just jujitsu, but striking, I was like, all right, I want to find a way to do this where I don't like, like hurt my brain. Right. Like I need to, I'm going to be running this company for a while. I would like to, you know, like stay, stay healthy and not take too much damage.
I do like Iron Neck. But it's... But when I started training, not just jujitsu, but striking, I was like, all right, I want to find a way to do this where I don't like, like hurt my brain. Right. Like I need to, I'm going to be running this company for a while. I would like to, you know, like stay, stay healthy and not take too much damage.
And so I think the number one thing you need to do is, well, in addition to having good partners is have a strong neck. Yes. So, yeah. So, yeah. I take that pretty seriously.
And so I think the number one thing you need to do is, well, in addition to having good partners is have a strong neck. Yes. So, yeah. So, yeah. I take that pretty seriously.
And so I think the number one thing you need to do is, well, in addition to having good partners is have a strong neck. Yes. So, yeah. So, yeah. I take that pretty seriously.
I'm glad that he's over at the UFC now.
I'm glad that he's over at the UFC now.
I'm glad that he's over at the UFC now.
And your ability to speak can temporarily be curtailed in order to get an emergency under control. So I was sympathetic to that at the beginning of COVID. It seemed like, OK, you have this virus. It seems like it's killing a lot of people. I don't know. We didn't know at the time how dangerous it was going to be. So at the beginning, it kind of seemed like, OK.
And your ability to speak can temporarily be curtailed in order to get an emergency under control. So I was sympathetic to that at the beginning of COVID. It seemed like, OK, you have this virus. It seems like it's killing a lot of people. I don't know. We didn't know at the time how dangerous it was going to be. So at the beginning, it kind of seemed like, OK.
And your ability to speak can temporarily be curtailed in order to get an emergency under control. So I was sympathetic to that at the beginning of COVID. It seemed like, OK, you have this virus. It seems like it's killing a lot of people. I don't know. We didn't know at the time how dangerous it was going to be. So at the beginning, it kind of seemed like, OK.
It's not as acute. I think it's like, sometimes you have someone trying to choke you unconscious slowly over a multi-month, multi-year period. And that's, that's business. But, um, but no, I think that sometimes in business, the cycle time is so long that it is very refreshing to just have a feedback loop. That's like, Oh, I like had my hand down. So I got punched in the face.
It's not as acute. I think it's like, sometimes you have someone trying to choke you unconscious slowly over a multi-month, multi-year period. And that's, that's business. But, um, but no, I think that sometimes in business, the cycle time is so long that it is very refreshing to just have a feedback loop. That's like, Oh, I like had my hand down. So I got punched in the face.
It's not as acute. I think it's like, sometimes you have someone trying to choke you unconscious slowly over a multi-month, multi-year period. And that's, that's business. But, um, but no, I think that sometimes in business, the cycle time is so long that it is very refreshing to just have a feedback loop. That's like, Oh, I like had my hand down. So I got punched in the face.
It's like, that's like, that's, um, but yeah, Yeah, no, it's really important to me for balance. I mean, I basically try to train every morning. I'm either doing general fitness or kind of MMA. I do sometimes grappling, sometimes striking, or sometimes both. But it got to the point where I tore my ACL training. I was probably... At that point, I didn't have...
It's like, that's like, that's, um, but yeah, Yeah, no, it's really important to me for balance. I mean, I basically try to train every morning. I'm either doing general fitness or kind of MMA. I do sometimes grappling, sometimes striking, or sometimes both. But it got to the point where I tore my ACL training. I was probably... At that point, I didn't have...
It's like, that's like, that's, um, but yeah, Yeah, no, it's really important to me for balance. I mean, I basically try to train every morning. I'm either doing general fitness or kind of MMA. I do sometimes grappling, sometimes striking, or sometimes both. But it got to the point where I tore my ACL training. I was probably... At that point, I didn't have...
I wasn't integrated between my weight training and my fighting training. So I think I was probably overdoing it. So now we basically, I'm just trying to do this in a cohesive way, which I think will be more sustainable. But when I tore my ACL, first of all, everyone at the company was like, ah, fuck, we're going to get so many more emails now. It's like that he can't do this.
I wasn't integrated between my weight training and my fighting training. So I think I was probably overdoing it. So now we basically, I'm just trying to do this in a cohesive way, which I think will be more sustainable. But when I tore my ACL, first of all, everyone at the company was like, ah, fuck, we're going to get so many more emails now. It's like that he can't do this.
I wasn't integrated between my weight training and my fighting training. So I think I was probably overdoing it. So now we basically, I'm just trying to do this in a cohesive way, which I think will be more sustainable. But when I tore my ACL, first of all, everyone at the company was like, ah, fuck, we're going to get so many more emails now. It's like that he can't do this.
And then I sat down with Priscilla and And I expected her to be like, you're an idiot. Like, what do you expect? You're like, you know, I was in my late 30s at the time. But she was like, no. She's like, when you heal your ACL, you better go back to fighting. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, you are so much better to be around now that you're doing this. You have to fight.
And then I sat down with Priscilla and And I expected her to be like, you're an idiot. Like, what do you expect? You're like, you know, I was in my late 30s at the time. But she was like, no. She's like, when you heal your ACL, you better go back to fighting. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, you are so much better to be around now that you're doing this. You have to fight.
And then I sat down with Priscilla and And I expected her to be like, you're an idiot. Like, what do you expect? You're like, you know, I was in my late 30s at the time. But she was like, no. She's like, when you heal your ACL, you better go back to fighting. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, you are so much better to be around now that you're doing this. You have to fight.
I mean, it definitely takes the edge off things. But it's like after like a couple of hours of doing that in the morning, it's just like, yeah, it's like nothing else that day is going to stress you out that much. You can just deal with it. Voluntary adversity. Yeah.
I mean, it definitely takes the edge off things. But it's like after like a couple of hours of doing that in the morning, it's just like, yeah, it's like nothing else that day is going to stress you out that much. You can just deal with it. Voluntary adversity. Yeah.
I mean, it definitely takes the edge off things. But it's like after like a couple of hours of doing that in the morning, it's just like, yeah, it's like nothing else that day is going to stress you out that much. You can just deal with it. Voluntary adversity. Yeah.
No, it's good. It's good. It's also good, I think, to be a little bit tired. It's like it just it's I love that feeling of just like you're not like exhausted. And sometimes you get a session and you just go so hard and I need to like just go to sleep or something.
No, it's good. It's good. It's also good, I think, to be a little bit tired. It's like it just it's I love that feeling of just like you're not like exhausted. And sometimes you get a session and you just go so hard and I need to like just go to sleep or something.
No, it's good. It's good. It's also good, I think, to be a little bit tired. It's like it just it's I love that feeling of just like you're not like exhausted. And sometimes you get a session and you just go so hard and I need to like just go to sleep or something.
We should give a little bit of deference to the government and the health authorities on how we should play this. But when it went from, you know, two weeks to flatten the curve to, you know, and like in the beginning, it was like, OK, there aren't enough masks. Masks aren't that important to them. It's like, oh, no, you have to wear a mask. And, you know, like everything was shifting around.
We should give a little bit of deference to the government and the health authorities on how we should play this. But when it went from, you know, two weeks to flatten the curve to, you know, and like in the beginning, it was like, OK, there aren't enough masks. Masks aren't that important to them. It's like, oh, no, you have to wear a mask. And, you know, like everything was shifting around.
We should give a little bit of deference to the government and the health authorities on how we should play this. But when it went from, you know, two weeks to flatten the curve to, you know, and like in the beginning, it was like, OK, there aren't enough masks. Masks aren't that important to them. It's like, oh, no, you have to wear a mask. And, you know, like everything was shifting around.
Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, it's opened a lot of how I think about stuff. I mean, it is just interesting when your point about like having a pill that allows you to just kind of know that you have this kind of physical ability. It's a superpower. It's interesting because I do think a lot of our... society has become very like, I don't know.
Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, it's opened a lot of how I think about stuff. I mean, it is just interesting when your point about like having a pill that allows you to just kind of know that you have this kind of physical ability. It's a superpower. It's interesting because I do think a lot of our... society has become very like, I don't know.
Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, it's opened a lot of how I think about stuff. I mean, it is just interesting when your point about like having a pill that allows you to just kind of know that you have this kind of physical ability. It's a superpower. It's interesting because I do think a lot of our... society has become very like, I don't know.
I don't even know the right word for it, but it's like, it kind of like neutered or like emasculated. And it's, there's like a whole energy in this that I think it's, it is very healthy in the right balance. Um, I mean, I think part of the reason, um, One of the things that I enjoy about it is I feel like I can just express myself.
I don't even know the right word for it, but it's like, it kind of like neutered or like emasculated. And it's, there's like a whole energy in this that I think it's, it is very healthy in the right balance. Um, I mean, I think part of the reason, um, One of the things that I enjoy about it is I feel like I can just express myself.
I don't even know the right word for it, but it's like, it kind of like neutered or like emasculated. And it's, there's like a whole energy in this that I think it's, it is very healthy in the right balance. Um, I mean, I think part of the reason, um, One of the things that I enjoy about it is I feel like I can just express myself.
It's like when you're running a company, people typically don't want to see you being this ruthless person who's like, I'm just going to crush the people I'm competing with. But when you're fighting, it's like, no, no, that's like... You're rewarded. I think in some ways, when people see me competing in this sport, they're like, oh, no, that's the real Mark.
It's like when you're running a company, people typically don't want to see you being this ruthless person who's like, I'm just going to crush the people I'm competing with. But when you're fighting, it's like, no, no, that's like... You're rewarded. I think in some ways, when people see me competing in this sport, they're like, oh, no, that's the real Mark.
It's like when you're running a company, people typically don't want to see you being this ruthless person who's like, I'm just going to crush the people I'm competing with. But when you're fighting, it's like, no, no, that's like... You're rewarded. I think in some ways, when people see me competing in this sport, they're like, oh, no, that's the real Mark.
It's like, because it goes back to all the media training stuff we were talking about. When I'm going and giving my sound bites for two minutes, it's like... No, it's like, fuck that guy. It's like, that's the real one.
It's like, because it goes back to all the media training stuff we were talking about. When I'm going and giving my sound bites for two minutes, it's like... No, it's like, fuck that guy. It's like, that's the real one.
It's like, because it goes back to all the media training stuff we were talking about. When I'm going and giving my sound bites for two minutes, it's like... No, it's like, fuck that guy. It's like, that's the real one.
Super. I think there's a lot of sports that are like, nah, we don't want you.
Super. I think there's a lot of sports that are like, nah, we don't want you.
Super. I think there's a lot of sports that are like, nah, we don't want you.
I just become very difficult to kind of follow. And this really hit me. The most extreme, I'd say during it was during the Biden administration when they were trying to roll out the vaccine program. And I'm generally like pretty pro rolling out vaccines. I think on balance, the vaccines are more positive than negative. But.
I just become very difficult to kind of follow. And this really hit me. The most extreme, I'd say during it was during the Biden administration when they were trying to roll out the vaccine program. And I'm generally like pretty pro rolling out vaccines. I think on balance, the vaccines are more positive than negative. But.
I just become very difficult to kind of follow. And this really hit me. The most extreme, I'd say during it was during the Biden administration when they were trying to roll out the vaccine program. And I'm generally like pretty pro rolling out vaccines. I think on balance, the vaccines are more positive than negative. But.
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a good crew. I mean, when I got hurt, I really kind of missed the guys I trained with.
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a good crew. I mean, when I got hurt, I really kind of missed the guys I trained with.
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a good crew. I mean, when I got hurt, I really kind of missed the guys I trained with.
And it's like Dave has put together this group. It's basically all these young pro fighters who are kind of up and coming, kind of early 20s, but they've only been doing it for a few years. So I've been doing it for a few years. That way it's like we kind of have a more similar level of skill, and they're all better than me. But in terms of I'm like...
And it's like Dave has put together this group. It's basically all these young pro fighters who are kind of up and coming, kind of early 20s, but they've only been doing it for a few years. So I've been doing it for a few years. That way it's like we kind of have a more similar level of skill, and they're all better than me. But in terms of I'm like...
And it's like Dave has put together this group. It's basically all these young pro fighters who are kind of up and coming, kind of early 20s, but they've only been doing it for a few years. So I've been doing it for a few years. That way it's like we kind of have a more similar level of skill, and they're all better than me. But in terms of I'm like...
I was in my late 30s and they're in their early 20s. It was sort of like they're kind of coming into becoming men. I'm like sort of at the end of my fiscal week. But it's like, it's... It's a really good crew. Yeah, no, it's a good crew. And the competing thing is fun. I can't wait to get back to that too.
I was in my late 30s and they're in their early 20s. It was sort of like they're kind of coming into becoming men. I'm like sort of at the end of my fiscal week. But it's like, it's... It's a really good crew. Yeah, no, it's a good crew. And the competing thing is fun. I can't wait to get back to that too.
I was in my late 30s and they're in their early 20s. It was sort of like they're kind of coming into becoming men. I'm like sort of at the end of my fiscal week. But it's like, it's... It's a really good crew. Yeah, no, it's a good crew. And the competing thing is fun. I can't wait to get back to that too.
I mean, it's like basically, I mean, I was also doing it with, so it's basically a group of pro fighters and then a handful of meta executives would do it. And then basically we would just kind of like fight each other and it would be fun. And then one of them decided one day that they were like, you know, I think I'm getting pretty good at jujitsu. I'm going to go to a tournament.
I mean, it's like basically, I mean, I was also doing it with, so it's basically a group of pro fighters and then a handful of meta executives would do it. And then basically we would just kind of like fight each other and it would be fun. And then one of them decided one day that they were like, you know, I think I'm getting pretty good at jujitsu. I'm going to go to a tournament.
I mean, it's like basically, I mean, I was also doing it with, so it's basically a group of pro fighters and then a handful of meta executives would do it. And then basically we would just kind of like fight each other and it would be fun. And then one of them decided one day that they were like, you know, I think I'm getting pretty good at jujitsu. I'm going to go to a tournament.
And I was like, all right, good luck with that, bro. I'm not going to go to a tournament. I don't want to go to a tournament and get embarrassed. But then the guy goes to the tournament and he does pretty well. I'm like... That guy, it's like, it's like, okay, it's like we go all the time and like, and if he's doing well in a tournament, that's like, all right, fine. Sign me up. Right.
And I was like, all right, good luck with that, bro. I'm not going to go to a tournament. I don't want to go to a tournament and get embarrassed. But then the guy goes to the tournament and he does pretty well. I'm like... That guy, it's like, it's like, okay, it's like we go all the time and like, and if he's doing well in a tournament, that's like, all right, fine. Sign me up. Right.
And I was like, all right, good luck with that, bro. I'm not going to go to a tournament. I don't want to go to a tournament and get embarrassed. But then the guy goes to the tournament and he does pretty well. I'm like... That guy, it's like, it's like, okay, it's like we go all the time and like, and if he's doing well in a tournament, that's like, all right, fine. Sign me up. Right.
It's like some, I mean, it's just like super competitive. So this was like, when was this? It must've been, I don't know. I guess I rolled into this tournament. And I registered under my first and middle name. So people didn't know who I was. And I had like sunglasses and a hat and I wore a COVID mask.
It's like some, I mean, it's just like super competitive. So this was like, when was this? It must've been, I don't know. I guess I rolled into this tournament. And I registered under my first and middle name. So people didn't know who I was. And I had like sunglasses and a hat and I wore a COVID mask.
It's like some, I mean, it's just like super competitive. So this was like, when was this? It must've been, I don't know. I guess I rolled into this tournament. And I registered under my first and middle name. So people didn't know who I was. And I had like sunglasses and a hat and I wore a COVID mask.
I mean, the whole point of social media is basically, you know, giving people the ability to share what they want.
I mean, the whole point of social media is basically, you know, giving people the ability to share what they want.
I mean, the whole point of social media is basically, you know, giving people the ability to share what they want.
And like, and I, and basically it was like, it wasn't until they called our names to step onto the mat that I was like, all right, take all this stuff off. And the guy was like, oh, what?
And like, and I, and basically it was like, it wasn't until they called our names to step onto the mat that I was like, all right, take all this stuff off. And the guy was like, oh, what?
And like, and I, and basically it was like, it wasn't until they called our names to step onto the mat that I was like, all right, take all this stuff off. And the guy was like, oh, what?
They kind of freak out. I think he was trying to figure out what was going on. Afterwards, his coach was like, I think that was Mark Zuckerberg who just submitted me. And the coach was like, no, no way. And it's like, no, I think that was. He's like, what? You're fighting Mark Zuckerberg? He's like, get back in there. It's like, go fight him. He's like, no, he just submitted me. It's just...
They kind of freak out. I think he was trying to figure out what was going on. Afterwards, his coach was like, I think that was Mark Zuckerberg who just submitted me. And the coach was like, no, no way. And it's like, no, I think that was. He's like, what? You're fighting Mark Zuckerberg? He's like, get back in there. It's like, go fight him. He's like, no, he just submitted me. It's just...
They kind of freak out. I think he was trying to figure out what was going on. Afterwards, his coach was like, I think that was Mark Zuckerberg who just submitted me. And the coach was like, no, no way. And it's like, no, I think that was. He's like, what? You're fighting Mark Zuckerberg? He's like, get back in there. It's like, go fight him. He's like, no, he just submitted me. It's just...
Yeah. No, I think, yeah. Yeah, I can't wait to get back to competing. It's been sort of a slow journey on the rehab. It's sort of like learning twice, but we're getting there. How far out are you? Oh, no, I'm done with the rehab now. Now I'm just ramping back up. How far out are you from surgery? Um... 12 months, 13 months.
Yeah. No, I think, yeah. Yeah, I can't wait to get back to competing. It's been sort of a slow journey on the rehab. It's sort of like learning twice, but we're getting there. How far out are you? Oh, no, I'm done with the rehab now. Now I'm just ramping back up. How far out are you from surgery? Um... 12 months, 13 months.
Yeah. No, I think, yeah. Yeah, I can't wait to get back to competing. It's been sort of a slow journey on the rehab. It's sort of like learning twice, but we're getting there. How far out are you? Oh, no, I'm done with the rehab now. Now I'm just ramping back up. How far out are you from surgery? Um... 12 months, 13 months.
Oh, so young. Yeah. Because my doctor is basically like, look, you're at the boundary. You could go either way. But if you want to compete again, then I'd recommend doing the patella.
Oh, so young. Yeah. Because my doctor is basically like, look, you're at the boundary. You could go either way. But if you want to compete again, then I'd recommend doing the patella.
Oh, so young. Yeah. Because my doctor is basically like, look, you're at the boundary. You could go either way. But if you want to compete again, then I'd recommend doing the patella.
I think that while they're trying to push that program, they also tried to censor anyone who is basically arguing against it. And they pushed us super hard to take down things that were honestly were true. Right. I mean, they basically pushed us and said, you know, anything that says that vaccines might have side effects. You basically need to take down.
I think that while they're trying to push that program, they also tried to censor anyone who is basically arguing against it. And they pushed us super hard to take down things that were honestly were true. Right. I mean, they basically pushed us and said, you know, anything that says that vaccines might have side effects. You basically need to take down.
I think that while they're trying to push that program, they also tried to censor anyone who is basically arguing against it. And they pushed us super hard to take down things that were honestly were true. Right. I mean, they basically pushed us and said, you know, anything that says that vaccines might have side effects. You basically need to take down.
Yeah, I can kind of do everything that I want at this point. It's still like a little sore, but I don't know. I think that it's supposed to be a couple years until you feel like it's fully. I think it takes some time for the nerves to grow into it and all that.
Yeah, I can kind of do everything that I want at this point. It's still like a little sore, but I don't know. I think that it's supposed to be a couple years until you feel like it's fully. I think it takes some time for the nerves to grow into it and all that.
Yeah, I can kind of do everything that I want at this point. It's still like a little sore, but I don't know. I think that it's supposed to be a couple years until you feel like it's fully. I think it takes some time for the nerves to grow into it and all that.
I didn't. Do you hate healing? Do I hate healing?
I didn't. Do you hate healing? Do I hate healing?
I didn't. Do you hate healing? Do I hate healing?
Why didn't you use peptides? I don't know. I just took my doctor's advice on it.
Why didn't you use peptides? I don't know. I just took my doctor's advice on it.
Why didn't you use peptides? I don't know. I just took my doctor's advice on it.
100% for sure. But it's been this interesting opportunity to like, like, I really don't want that to happen again. So I, I feel like I'm so much more focused on technique. Like the first time that I learned all this stuff, I was like, I was probably like a little too brutish about it and just like muscling through stuff.
100% for sure. But it's been this interesting opportunity to like, like, I really don't want that to happen again. So I, I feel like I'm so much more focused on technique. Like the first time that I learned all this stuff, I was like, I was probably like a little too brutish about it and just like muscling through stuff.
100% for sure. But it's been this interesting opportunity to like, like, I really don't want that to happen again. So I, I feel like I'm so much more focused on technique. Like the first time that I learned all this stuff, I was like, I was probably like a little too brutish about it and just like muscling through stuff.
And now, I don't know, now I feel like I'm like really learning how to do this stuff correctly and I can do it way more effortlessly. So it's- Yeah, that's the goal.
And now, I don't know, now I feel like I'm like really learning how to do this stuff correctly and I can do it way more effortlessly. So it's- Yeah, that's the goal.
And now, I don't know, now I feel like I'm like really learning how to do this stuff correctly and I can do it way more effortlessly. So it's- Yeah, that's the goal.
I was like the end of a session, and so we're two hours into training, and I was doing like a few rounds, and I basically threw a leg kick, and the other guy went to check it, and I like leaned back to try to get around the check and just put too much torque on my knee. So it was the planted leg. Mine was the planted leg too. Yeah, but it's, I don't know, Dave was like,
I was like the end of a session, and so we're two hours into training, and I was doing like a few rounds, and I basically threw a leg kick, and the other guy went to check it, and I like leaned back to try to get around the check and just put too much torque on my knee. So it was the planted leg. Mine was the planted leg too. Yeah, but it's, I don't know, Dave was like,
I was like the end of a session, and so we're two hours into training, and I was doing like a few rounds, and I basically threw a leg kick, and the other guy went to check it, and I like leaned back to try to get around the check and just put too much torque on my knee. So it was the planted leg. Mine was the planted leg too. Yeah, but it's, I don't know, Dave was like,
Before that round, Dave was like, you're done. I'm like, no, one more round.
Before that round, Dave was like, you're done. I'm like, no, one more round.
Before that round, Dave was like, you're done. I'm like, no, one more round.
Basically, I had also just done a really hard leg workout the day before, but the fight guys didn't know that. I really just pushed it too hard.
Basically, I had also just done a really hard leg workout the day before, but the fight guys didn't know that. I really just pushed it too hard.
Basically, I had also just done a really hard leg workout the day before, but the fight guys didn't know that. I really just pushed it too hard.
I've looked at it a bunch. I mean, the rehab thing I took really seriously, and I thought that was pretty interesting, too. I don't want to, like, have to do a lot of rehabs like this one, but to do one of them, I actually thought it was a pretty interesting experience because it's like week over week you're just getting back so much mobility and ability to do stuff. Yeah. No, I feel like I'm...
I've looked at it a bunch. I mean, the rehab thing I took really seriously, and I thought that was pretty interesting, too. I don't want to, like, have to do a lot of rehabs like this one, but to do one of them, I actually thought it was a pretty interesting experience because it's like week over week you're just getting back so much mobility and ability to do stuff. Yeah. No, I feel like I'm...
I've looked at it a bunch. I mean, the rehab thing I took really seriously, and I thought that was pretty interesting, too. I don't want to, like, have to do a lot of rehabs like this one, but to do one of them, I actually thought it was a pretty interesting experience because it's like week over week you're just getting back so much mobility and ability to do stuff. Yeah. No, I feel like I'm...
I don't know. At this point, probably half of my weight training is effectively rehab and joint health stuff, like wrists, shoulders, knee, all that, in addition to the big muscle groups.
I don't know. At this point, probably half of my weight training is effectively rehab and joint health stuff, like wrists, shoulders, knee, all that, in addition to the big muscle groups.
I don't know. At this point, probably half of my weight training is effectively rehab and joint health stuff, like wrists, shoulders, knee, all that, in addition to the big muscle groups.
I should. I should do more than I do.
I should. I should do more than I do.
I should. I should do more than I do.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people just focus on, like, the big movements and weight training. And it's, I don't know, first of all, for, like, a lot of fighting type stuff, you kind of want to be loose and, like, not super tight.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people just focus on, like, the big movements and weight training. And it's, I don't know, first of all, for, like, a lot of fighting type stuff, you kind of want to be loose and, like, not super tight.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people just focus on, like, the big movements and weight training. And it's, I don't know, first of all, for, like, a lot of fighting type stuff, you kind of want to be loose and, like, not super tight.
And I was just like, well, we're not going to do that. Like, we're clearly not going to do that. I mean, that is kind of inarguably true.
And I was just like, well, we're not going to do that. Like, we're clearly not going to do that. I mean, that is kind of inarguably true.
And I was just like, well, we're not going to do that. Like, we're clearly not going to do that. I mean, that is kind of inarguably true.
But, yeah, I mean, I just think, like, the joint stability stuff is you get older and want to do this for a longer period of time. It's good to do.
But, yeah, I mean, I just think, like, the joint stability stuff is you get older and want to do this for a longer period of time. It's good to do.
But, yeah, I mean, I just think, like, the joint stability stuff is you get older and want to do this for a longer period of time. It's good to do.
You can compete in jiu-jitsu for a long time.
You can compete in jiu-jitsu for a long time.
You can compete in jiu-jitsu for a long time.
There's, like, all these master's divisions and stuff.
There's, like, all these master's divisions and stuff.
There's, like, all these master's divisions and stuff.
No, I think it's super intellectual in terms of actually breaking this stuff down. I mean, both jujitsu and, like, striking, I mean, yeah, you don't have time to think, but, like, the reasoning behind why you kind of want to slip in certain ways and, like, the probability game that you're playing is... I don't know. I used to fence when I was in high school, and I did that pretty competitively.
No, I think it's super intellectual in terms of actually breaking this stuff down. I mean, both jujitsu and, like, striking, I mean, yeah, you don't have time to think, but, like, the reasoning behind why you kind of want to slip in certain ways and, like, the probability game that you're playing is... I don't know. I used to fence when I was in high school, and I did that pretty competitively.
No, I think it's super intellectual in terms of actually breaking this stuff down. I mean, both jujitsu and, like, striking, I mean, yeah, you don't have time to think, but, like, the reasoning behind why you kind of want to slip in certain ways and, like, the probability game that you're playing is... I don't know. I used to fence when I was in high school, and I did that pretty competitively.
I was never quite good enough to be at the Olympic level, but I was pretty good. And we virtual fenced last time you were here. Yeah, there you go. And, like, I... I just remember I would sit in my classes in high school and sketch out combinations of moves and sequences for how to faint and kind of trick someone to get them out of position to be able to tap them. And it's...
I was never quite good enough to be at the Olympic level, but I was pretty good. And we virtual fenced last time you were here. Yeah, there you go. And, like, I... I just remember I would sit in my classes in high school and sketch out combinations of moves and sequences for how to faint and kind of trick someone to get them out of position to be able to tap them. And it's...
I was never quite good enough to be at the Olympic level, but I was pretty good. And we virtual fenced last time you were here. Yeah, there you go. And, like, I... I just remember I would sit in my classes in high school and sketch out combinations of moves and sequences for how to faint and kind of trick someone to get them out of position to be able to tap them. And it's...
I feel like this is a game in the same way. I mean, I think when you're training, you're not slugging at each other that much. You're just playing tag.
I feel like this is a game in the same way. I mean, I think when you're training, you're not slugging at each other that much. You're just playing tag.
I feel like this is a game in the same way. I mean, I think when you're training, you're not slugging at each other that much. You're just playing tag.
It was people in the Biden administration. I think it was, you know, I wasn't involved in those conversations directly, but I think it was.
It was people in the Biden administration. I think it was, you know, I wasn't involved in those conversations directly, but I think it was.
It was people in the Biden administration. I think it was, you know, I wasn't involved in those conversations directly, but I think it was.
And I think I probably will, but we'll see. 2025, I think, is going to be a very busy year on the AI side. And I think the idea of having a competition, you really need to get into the headspace of, like, I'm going to fight someone this week. So I need to figure this out, because I don't know how, with everything that's going on in AI,
And I think I probably will, but we'll see. 2025, I think, is going to be a very busy year on the AI side. And I think the idea of having a competition, you really need to get into the headspace of, like, I'm going to fight someone this week. So I need to figure this out, because I don't know how, with everything that's going on in AI,
And I think I probably will, but we'll see. 2025, I think, is going to be a very busy year on the AI side. And I think the idea of having a competition, you really need to get into the headspace of, like, I'm going to fight someone this week. So I need to figure this out, because I don't know how, with everything that's going on in AI,
have like a week or two where i can just get into this like i'm gonna go fight someone but but it's good it's good training uh but and i would like to at some point um you know the thing about the acl injury is i i kind of thought before this it's like all right i'm gonna do some jiu-jitsu competitions i want to do one mma fight like one kind of like pro or competitive mma fight and then i figured i'd go back to jiu-jitsu but
have like a week or two where i can just get into this like i'm gonna go fight someone but but it's good it's good training uh but and i would like to at some point um you know the thing about the acl injury is i i kind of thought before this it's like all right i'm gonna do some jiu-jitsu competitions i want to do one mma fight like one kind of like pro or competitive mma fight and then i figured i'd go back to jiu-jitsu but
have like a week or two where i can just get into this like i'm gonna go fight someone but but it's good it's good training uh but and i would like to at some point um you know the thing about the acl injury is i i kind of thought before this it's like all right i'm gonna do some jiu-jitsu competitions i want to do one mma fight like one kind of like pro or competitive mma fight and then i figured i'd go back to jiu-jitsu but
I think tearing the ACL striking is a little more of a fluke. I think you're much more likely to do that grappling. So going through the ACL experience didn't make me want to just exclusively go do the version where you're just attacking joints all day long. So I'm like, all right, I can take a few more punches to the face before we go back to that.
I think tearing the ACL striking is a little more of a fluke. I think you're much more likely to do that grappling. So going through the ACL experience didn't make me want to just exclusively go do the version where you're just attacking joints all day long. So I'm like, all right, I can take a few more punches to the face before we go back to that.
I think tearing the ACL striking is a little more of a fluke. I think you're much more likely to do that grappling. So going through the ACL experience didn't make me want to just exclusively go do the version where you're just attacking joints all day long. So I'm like, all right, I can take a few more punches to the face before we go back to that.
Yeah, but jiu-jitsu isn't always slower controlled, especially when you're competing.
Yeah, but jiu-jitsu isn't always slower controlled, especially when you're competing.
Yeah, but jiu-jitsu isn't always slower controlled, especially when you're competing.
Yeah, yeah, and I watched, I saw the one that you did with him too.
Yeah, yeah, and I watched, I saw the one that you did with him too.
Yeah, yeah, and I watched, I saw the one that you did with him too.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's kind of just what I was saying before. I think the... For me, it's...
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's kind of just what I was saying before. I think the... For me, it's...
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's kind of just what I was saying before. I think the... For me, it's...
just i think a lot of the corporate world is is like pretty culturally neutered and and i i just think like having you know i i grew up i have three sisters no brothers um i have three daughters no sons so i'm like surrounded by girls and women like my my whole life and it's like so i think um I don't know. The kind of masculine energy, I think, is good.
just i think a lot of the corporate world is is like pretty culturally neutered and and i i just think like having you know i i grew up i have three sisters no brothers um i have three daughters no sons so i'm like surrounded by girls and women like my my whole life and it's like so i think um I don't know. The kind of masculine energy, I think, is good.
just i think a lot of the corporate world is is like pretty culturally neutered and and i i just think like having you know i i grew up i have three sisters no brothers um i have three daughters no sons so i'm like surrounded by girls and women like my my whole life and it's like so i think um I don't know. The kind of masculine energy, I think, is good.
Obviously, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really trying to get away from it. And I do think that there's just something. It's like, I don't know, all these forms of energy are good. And I think having a culture that celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive. That has been kind of a positive experience for me.
Obviously, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really trying to get away from it. And I do think that there's just something. It's like, I don't know, all these forms of energy are good. And I think having a culture that celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive. That has been kind of a positive experience for me.
Obviously, society has plenty of that, but I think corporate culture was really trying to get away from it. And I do think that there's just something. It's like, I don't know, all these forms of energy are good. And I think having a culture that celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive. That has been kind of a positive experience for me.
Just having a thing that I can just do with my guy friends and we just beat each other a bit.
Just having a thing that I can just do with my guy friends and we just beat each other a bit.
Just having a thing that I can just do with my guy friends and we just beat each other a bit.
And... And it goes back to our original mission is just give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected.
And... And it goes back to our original mission is just give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected.
And... And it goes back to our original mission is just give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected.
No, and look, I think part of the intent on all these things I think is good. I do think that... If you're a woman going into a company, it probably feels like it's too masculine. It's like there isn't enough of the kind of the energy that you may naturally have. And it probably feels like there are all these things that are set up that are biased against you.
No, and look, I think part of the intent on all these things I think is good. I do think that... If you're a woman going into a company, it probably feels like it's too masculine. It's like there isn't enough of the kind of the energy that you may naturally have. And it probably feels like there are all these things that are set up that are biased against you.
No, and look, I think part of the intent on all these things I think is good. I do think that... If you're a woman going into a company, it probably feels like it's too masculine. It's like there isn't enough of the kind of the energy that you may naturally have. And it probably feels like there are all these things that are set up that are biased against you.
And that's not good either because you want women to be able to succeed and like have companies that can unlock all the value from having great people no matter what. you know, what their background or gender, you know. But I think these things can always go a little far. And I think it's one thing to say we want to be kind of like welcoming and make a good environment for everyone.
And that's not good either because you want women to be able to succeed and like have companies that can unlock all the value from having great people no matter what. you know, what their background or gender, you know. But I think these things can always go a little far. And I think it's one thing to say we want to be kind of like welcoming and make a good environment for everyone.
And that's not good either because you want women to be able to succeed and like have companies that can unlock all the value from having great people no matter what. you know, what their background or gender, you know. But I think these things can always go a little far. And I think it's one thing to say we want to be kind of like welcoming and make a good environment for everyone.
And I think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad. and I just think we kind of swung culturally to that part of the, the kind of the spectrum where, you know, it's all like, okay, masculinity is toxic. We have to like get rid of it completely. It's like, no, like it's both of these things are good, right? It's like, you want like feminine energy, you want masculine energy.
And I think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad. and I just think we kind of swung culturally to that part of the, the kind of the spectrum where, you know, it's all like, okay, masculinity is toxic. We have to like get rid of it completely. It's like, no, like it's both of these things are good, right? It's like, you want like feminine energy, you want masculine energy.
And I think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad. and I just think we kind of swung culturally to that part of the, the kind of the spectrum where, you know, it's all like, okay, masculinity is toxic. We have to like get rid of it completely. It's like, no, like it's both of these things are good, right? It's like, you want like feminine energy, you want masculine energy.
Like, I think that that's like, you're going to have parts of society that have more of one or the other. I think that that's all good. But, um, But I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung towards being this somewhat more neutered thing. And I didn't really feel that until I got involved in martial arts, which I think is still a more much more masculine culture.
Like, I think that that's like, you're going to have parts of society that have more of one or the other. I think that that's all good. But, um, But I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung towards being this somewhat more neutered thing. And I didn't really feel that until I got involved in martial arts, which I think is still a more much more masculine culture.
Like, I think that that's like, you're going to have parts of society that have more of one or the other. I think that that's all good. But, um, But I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung towards being this somewhat more neutered thing. And I didn't really feel that until I got involved in martial arts, which I think is still a more much more masculine culture.
And not that it doesn't try to be inclusive in its own way, but I think that there's just a lot more of that energy there.
And not that it doesn't try to be inclusive in its own way, but I think that there's just a lot more of that energy there.
And not that it doesn't try to be inclusive in its own way, but I think that there's just a lot more of that energy there.
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, there are these things, there are like a few of these things throughout your life where you just, you have an experience and you're like, where has this been my whole life? And it just turned on like a part of my brain that I was like, okay. Yeah. Like, this was a piece of the puzzle that should have been there, and I'm glad it now is.
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, there are these things, there are like a few of these things throughout your life where you just, you have an experience and you're like, where has this been my whole life? And it just turned on like a part of my brain that I was like, okay. Yeah. Like, this was a piece of the puzzle that should have been there, and I'm glad it now is.
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, there are these things, there are like a few of these things throughout your life where you just, you have an experience and you're like, where has this been my whole life? And it just turned on like a part of my brain that I was like, okay. Yeah. Like, this was a piece of the puzzle that should have been there, and I'm glad it now is.
Yeah, well, so, I mean, we have this ranch out in Kauai, and there's invasive pigs. And we—on our ranch, we have— There's a lot of albatross. I don't know if they're endangered or just threatened. And then there's the Hawaiian state bird, the nene goose. That's, I think, endangered, or at least was until recently.
Yeah, well, so, I mean, we have this ranch out in Kauai, and there's invasive pigs. And we—on our ranch, we have— There's a lot of albatross. I don't know if they're endangered or just threatened. And then there's the Hawaiian state bird, the nene goose. That's, I think, endangered, or at least was until recently.
Yeah, well, so, I mean, we have this ranch out in Kauai, and there's invasive pigs. And we—on our ranch, we have— There's a lot of albatross. I don't know if they're endangered or just threatened. And then there's the Hawaiian state bird, the nene goose. That's, I think, endangered, or at least was until recently.
Most of them in the world live in a small stretch, or at least most of them on Kauai live in a small stretch that includes our ranch. So you constantly have these pigs that just multiply so quickly, and we basically have to apply pressure to the population or else they just get...
Most of them in the world live in a small stretch, or at least most of them on Kauai live in a small stretch that includes our ranch. So you constantly have these pigs that just multiply so quickly, and we basically have to apply pressure to the population or else they just get...
Most of them in the world live in a small stretch, or at least most of them on Kauai live in a small stretch that includes our ranch. So you constantly have these pigs that just multiply so quickly, and we basically have to apply pressure to the population or else they just get...
overrun and threaten the birds and the other wildlife and so and what I basically explained to my daughters who I also want to learn how to do this because I just feel like it's like look we We have this land. We take care of it. Just like you mow the grass, we need to make sure that these populations are in check. It's part of what we do as the stewards of this. And we've got to do it.
overrun and threaten the birds and the other wildlife and so and what I basically explained to my daughters who I also want to learn how to do this because I just feel like it's like look we We have this land. We take care of it. Just like you mow the grass, we need to make sure that these populations are in check. It's part of what we do as the stewards of this. And we've got to do it.
overrun and threaten the birds and the other wildlife and so and what I basically explained to my daughters who I also want to learn how to do this because I just feel like it's like look we We have this land. We take care of it. Just like you mow the grass, we need to make sure that these populations are in check. It's part of what we do as the stewards of this. And we've got to do it.
And then if you have to kill something, then you should obviously treat it with respect and use the meat to make food and kind of celebrate in that way. But it's a culture that I think it's... It's just an important thing for kids to grow up, understanding, like, the circle of life, right?
And then if you have to kill something, then you should obviously treat it with respect and use the meat to make food and kind of celebrate in that way. But it's a culture that I think it's... It's just an important thing for kids to grow up, understanding, like, the circle of life, right?
And then if you have to kill something, then you should obviously treat it with respect and use the meat to make food and kind of celebrate in that way. But it's a culture that I think it's... It's just an important thing for kids to grow up, understanding, like, the circle of life, right?
So, you know, teaching, like, teaching the kids all of, you know, what is kind of how you'd run a ranch, how you'd run a farm. I think that that stuff... It's good. I mean, because, you know, explaining to the kids what a tech company is is really abstract, right?
So, you know, teaching, like, teaching the kids all of, you know, what is kind of how you'd run a ranch, how you'd run a farm. I think that that stuff... It's good. I mean, because, you know, explaining to the kids what a tech company is is really abstract, right?
So, you know, teaching, like, teaching the kids all of, you know, what is kind of how you'd run a ranch, how you'd run a farm. I think that that stuff... It's good. I mean, because, you know, explaining to the kids what a tech company is is really abstract, right?
So for a while, my daughters were pretty convinced that my actual job was Mark's Meats, which is our kind of ranch and like the cattle that we ranch. I was like, well, not quite. And you'll learn when you get older.
So for a while, my daughters were pretty convinced that my actual job was Mark's Meats, which is our kind of ranch and like the cattle that we ranch. I was like, well, not quite. And you'll learn when you get older.
So for a while, my daughters were pretty convinced that my actual job was Mark's Meats, which is our kind of ranch and like the cattle that we ranch. I was like, well, not quite. And you'll learn when you get older.
But I think that there's something that's just much more tangible about that than taking them to the office and sitting in product reviews or something for some piece of software that we're writing.
But I think that there's something that's just much more tangible about that than taking them to the office and sitting in product reviews or something for some piece of software that we're writing.
But I think that there's something that's just much more tangible about that than taking them to the office and sitting in product reviews or something for some piece of software that we're writing.
Yeah. Although my favorite is bow, bow and arrow. I mean, that's, I think like the most, that feels like the most kind of sporting version of it.
Yeah. Although my favorite is bow, bow and arrow. I mean, that's, I think like the most, that feels like the most kind of sporting version of it.
Yeah. Although my favorite is bow, bow and arrow. I mean, that's, I think like the most, that feels like the most kind of sporting version of it.
Yeah, and you just kind of go and hang out. Yeah, and you have to be fit.
Yeah, and you just kind of go and hang out. Yeah, and you have to be fit.
Yeah, and you just kind of go and hang out. Yeah, and you have to be fit.
And then actually carry the thing out.
And then actually carry the thing out.
And then actually carry the thing out.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I'm, I mostly, mostly use a rifle just cause it's so much more efficient. Um, you know, your, your conversion rate is so much higher, but it's, uh, but yeah, another, what kind of boat do you have? Gosh, I didn't get to do it this season, but, um, do you know the company that makes it? Not off the top of my head. Oh, you have to know.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I'm, I mostly, mostly use a rifle just cause it's so much more efficient. Um, you know, your, your conversion rate is so much higher, but it's, uh, but yeah, another, what kind of boat do you have? Gosh, I didn't get to do it this season, but, um, do you know the company that makes it? Not off the top of my head. Oh, you have to know.
Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I'm, I mostly, mostly use a rifle just cause it's so much more efficient. Um, you know, your, your conversion rate is so much higher, but it's, uh, but yeah, another, what kind of boat do you have? Gosh, I didn't get to do it this season, but, um, do you know the company that makes it? Not off the top of my head. Oh, you have to know.
I can get you hooked up. Yeah. It works. Okay. Do you know how old it is? No, it's not old. Okay. I think it's like just a compound bow that I got strung to my draw length. Did you get someone to coach you? Yeah, yeah.
I can get you hooked up. Yeah. It works. Okay. Do you know how old it is? No, it's not old. Okay. I think it's like just a compound bow that I got strung to my draw length. Did you get someone to coach you? Yeah, yeah.
I can get you hooked up. Yeah. It works. Okay. Do you know how old it is? No, it's not old. Okay. I think it's like just a compound bow that I got strung to my draw length. Did you get someone to coach you? Yeah, yeah.
It's basically a bunch of the guys who help run security around the ranch.
It's basically a bunch of the guys who help run security around the ranch.
It's basically a bunch of the guys who help run security around the ranch.
I'm definitely not doing that. Yeah. See, that's the thing. But how far away are you shooting things from?
I'm definitely not doing that. Yeah. See, that's the thing. But how far away are you shooting things from?
I'm definitely not doing that. Yeah. See, that's the thing. But how far away are you shooting things from?
Yeah, because I was going to say, I don't think I've ever shot something more than 50 yards out.
Yeah, because I was going to say, I don't think I've ever shot something more than 50 yards out.
Yeah, because I was going to say, I don't think I've ever shot something more than 50 yards out.
It's 3.2 billion people use one of our services every day. Yeah. No, it's wild.
It's 3.2 billion people use one of our services every day. Yeah. No, it's wild.
It's 3.2 billion people use one of our services every day. Yeah. No, it's wild.
It's almost half of Earth. Well, on a monthly basis, it is probably half of Earth.
It's almost half of Earth. Well, on a monthly basis, it is probably half of Earth.
It's almost half of Earth. Well, on a monthly basis, it is probably half of Earth.
Yeah. Have you ever experienced that? I mean, I've missed, if that's what you're asking. I haven't analyzed it at this level of detail. But, no, I mean, there are a lot of boars on our ranch. You get a lot of practice. Yeah, and also, like, we have a range.
Yeah. Have you ever experienced that? I mean, I've missed, if that's what you're asking. I haven't analyzed it at this level of detail. But, no, I mean, there are a lot of boars on our ranch. You get a lot of practice. Yeah, and also, like, we have a range.
Yeah. Have you ever experienced that? I mean, I've missed, if that's what you're asking. I haven't analyzed it at this level of detail. But, no, I mean, there are a lot of boars on our ranch. You get a lot of practice. Yeah, and also, like, we have a range.
And we, I don't know, we set up bowling pins, and, you know, it's like we shoot pistols at the bowling pins, but I also, like, just, like... I'm usually faster at taking down all the bowling pins with a bow and arrow than most of my friends are with a pistol, which I think is pretty fun. But, yeah, no, I'm just more casual.
And we, I don't know, we set up bowling pins, and, you know, it's like we shoot pistols at the bowling pins, but I also, like, just, like... I'm usually faster at taking down all the bowling pins with a bow and arrow than most of my friends are with a pistol, which I think is pretty fun. But, yeah, no, I'm just more casual.
And we, I don't know, we set up bowling pins, and, you know, it's like we shoot pistols at the bowling pins, but I also, like, just, like... I'm usually faster at taking down all the bowling pins with a bow and arrow than most of my friends are with a pistol, which I think is pretty fun. But, yeah, no, I'm just more casual.
I'm clearly not doing it at your level, and you've given me another side quest to maybe go deeper on. That's what I'm saying.
I'm clearly not doing it at your level, and you've given me another side quest to maybe go deeper on. That's what I'm saying.
I'm clearly not doing it at your level, and you've given me another side quest to maybe go deeper on. That's what I'm saying.
I do think the dynamic that you're talking about, though, where if you only see one animal on a multi-day, then that is just way higher stakes than anything that I'm doing.
I do think the dynamic that you're talking about, though, where if you only see one animal on a multi-day, then that is just way higher stakes than anything that I'm doing.
I do think the dynamic that you're talking about, though, where if you only see one animal on a multi-day, then that is just way higher stakes than anything that I'm doing.
I'm talking about the archery that I'm doing. I go out, it's like, you're going to see some pigs, and it's like, if I don't hit any, it's like, my family's still eating, it's okay. I'm not like... Right.
I'm talking about the archery that I'm doing. I go out, it's like, you're going to see some pigs, and it's like, if I don't hit any, it's like, my family's still eating, it's okay. I'm not like... Right.
I'm talking about the archery that I'm doing. I go out, it's like, you're going to see some pigs, and it's like, if I don't hit any, it's like, my family's still eating, it's okay. I'm not like... Right.
I've clearly not learned this in a very rigorous way. I'll hook you up. Yeah. I can get people to come to you. I posted a video on Instagram once of me, I think, hitting bowling pins with archery. And all the comments were like, man, your form is shit. So I think it checks out with the conversation that we're having now.
I've clearly not learned this in a very rigorous way. I'll hook you up. Yeah. I can get people to come to you. I posted a video on Instagram once of me, I think, hitting bowling pins with archery. And all the comments were like, man, your form is shit. So I think it checks out with the conversation that we're having now.
I've clearly not learned this in a very rigorous way. I'll hook you up. Yeah. I can get people to come to you. I posted a video on Instagram once of me, I think, hitting bowling pins with archery. And all the comments were like, man, your form is shit. So I think it checks out with the conversation that we're having now.
You should never read comments. That's fair. That's fair. I've never had anything good come out of reading comments. Yeah. Although, I don't know. It's pretty funny. I think that just like getting the gist and the summary of it I think is pretty funny.
You should never read comments. That's fair. That's fair. I've never had anything good come out of reading comments. Yeah. Although, I don't know. It's pretty funny. I think that just like getting the gist and the summary of it I think is pretty funny.
You should never read comments. That's fair. That's fair. I've never had anything good come out of reading comments. Yeah. Although, I don't know. It's pretty funny. I think that just like getting the gist and the summary of it I think is pretty funny.
No, you can't spend too much time on it.
No, you can't spend too much time on it.
No, you can't spend too much time on it.
Yeah. But, I mean, I do read my friends' comments and when even they're like, man, that's ugly.
Yeah. But, I mean, I do read my friends' comments and when even they're like, man, that's ugly.
Yeah. But, I mean, I do read my friends' comments and when even they're like, man, that's ugly.
Yeah, and I think, you know, we basically, my kids at this point are nine, seven, and one and a half.
Yeah, and I think, you know, we basically, my kids at this point are nine, seven, and one and a half.
Yeah, and I think, you know, we basically, my kids at this point are nine, seven, and one and a half.
I think that it's about to start getting a lot more complicated. I think, you know, the nine and seven-year-old. But, I mean, just kind of deciding what technology they're going to use and what's good and what's not and all the dynamics around that. It's really complicated. And look, I mean, I think every family has their own values and how they want to approach this, right?
I think that it's about to start getting a lot more complicated. I think, you know, the nine and seven-year-old. But, I mean, just kind of deciding what technology they're going to use and what's good and what's not and all the dynamics around that. It's really complicated. And look, I mean, I think every family has their own values and how they want to approach this, right?
I think that it's about to start getting a lot more complicated. I think, you know, the nine and seven-year-old. But, I mean, just kind of deciding what technology they're going to use and what's good and what's not and all the dynamics around that. It's really complicated. And look, I mean, I think every family has their own values and how they want to approach this, right?
So from my perspective, you know, we have... One of my daughters just, like, loves building stuff. So she clearly, like, takes after me in this way. It's like every day she's just, like, creating some random thing. It's like she's creating stuff with Legos and, you know, it's, like... One day it's that, or the next day it's Minecraft.
So from my perspective, you know, we have... One of my daughters just, like, loves building stuff. So she clearly, like, takes after me in this way. It's like every day she's just, like, creating some random thing. It's like she's creating stuff with Legos and, you know, it's, like... One day it's that, or the next day it's Minecraft.
So from my perspective, you know, we have... One of my daughters just, like, loves building stuff. So she clearly, like, takes after me in this way. It's like every day she's just, like, creating some random thing. It's like she's creating stuff with Legos and, you know, it's, like... One day it's that, or the next day it's Minecraft.
And from my perspective, it's like, okay, I don't know, Minecraft is actually kind of a cooler tool to build stuff than Lego is a lot of the way. So am I going to say that there needs to be some kind of limit on her screen time if she's doing something that's creative, that's maybe like a richer form of what she would have been doing physically? Right. In that case, probably not.
And from my perspective, it's like, okay, I don't know, Minecraft is actually kind of a cooler tool to build stuff than Lego is a lot of the way. So am I going to say that there needs to be some kind of limit on her screen time if she's doing something that's creative, that's maybe like a richer form of what she would have been doing physically? Right. In that case, probably not.
And from my perspective, it's like, okay, I don't know, Minecraft is actually kind of a cooler tool to build stuff than Lego is a lot of the way. So am I going to say that there needs to be some kind of limit on her screen time if she's doing something that's creative, that's maybe like a richer form of what she would have been doing physically? Right. In that case, probably not.
Now, there were times when... She'd get so excited about what she was building in Minecraft or something that she was coding in Scratch that she'd wake up early to kind of get her tablet. And that was bad, right? Because then it's like starting to get in the way of her sleep. And I'm like, you know, August, you can't do that, right?
Now, there were times when... She'd get so excited about what she was building in Minecraft or something that she was coding in Scratch that she'd wake up early to kind of get her tablet. And that was bad, right? Because then it's like starting to get in the way of her sleep. And I'm like, you know, August, you can't do that, right?
Now, there were times when... She'd get so excited about what she was building in Minecraft or something that she was coding in Scratch that she'd wake up early to kind of get her tablet. And that was bad, right? Because then it's like starting to get in the way of her sleep. And I'm like, you know, August, you can't do that, right?
It's like we're going to take your iPad away if you're doing that. You're a little psycho. What are you doing? Getting up early? No, it's like August. I did that too when I was a kid, but trust me, you're going to want to sleep.
It's like we're going to take your iPad away if you're doing that. You're a little psycho. What are you doing? Getting up early? No, it's like August. I did that too when I was a kid, but trust me, you're going to want to sleep.
It's like we're going to take your iPad away if you're doing that. You're a little psycho. What are you doing? Getting up early? No, it's like August. I did that too when I was a kid, but trust me, you're going to want to sleep.
It's either going to work or it's going to end badly. But I feel like building stuff, I feel generally pretty good about. I think communication, I generally feel pretty good about the kids using. I mean, they use it to talk to their grandparents or parents and cousins. That type of stuff is good.
It's either going to work or it's going to end badly. But I feel like building stuff, I feel generally pretty good about. I think communication, I generally feel pretty good about the kids using. I mean, they use it to talk to their grandparents or parents and cousins. That type of stuff is good.
It's either going to work or it's going to end badly. But I feel like building stuff, I feel generally pretty good about. I think communication, I generally feel pretty good about the kids using. I mean, they use it to talk to their grandparents or parents and cousins. That type of stuff is good.
Messenger Kids, the thing that we built, it's basically like a messaging service that the parents can choose who can contact the kids and just approve every contact. That's much better than just having an open texting service. Yeah. But I don't know, but there's a lot of stuff that's pretty sketchy.
Messenger Kids, the thing that we built, it's basically like a messaging service that the parents can choose who can contact the kids and just approve every contact. That's much better than just having an open texting service. Yeah. But I don't know, but there's a lot of stuff that's pretty sketchy.
Messenger Kids, the thing that we built, it's basically like a messaging service that the parents can choose who can contact the kids and just approve every contact. That's much better than just having an open texting service. Yeah. But I don't know, but there's a lot of stuff that's pretty sketchy.
And I kind of think different parents are going to have different lines on what they want their kids to be able to do and not. So some people might not even want their kids to be able to message even with friends when they're nine and seven. Some people might say, hey, no, Minecraft, that's just a game. I don't think about that as building. I think that is a game.
And I kind of think different parents are going to have different lines on what they want their kids to be able to do and not. So some people might not even want their kids to be able to message even with friends when they're nine and seven. Some people might say, hey, no, Minecraft, that's just a game. I don't think about that as building. I think that is a game.
And I kind of think different parents are going to have different lines on what they want their kids to be able to do and not. So some people might not even want their kids to be able to message even with friends when they're nine and seven. Some people might say, hey, no, Minecraft, that's just a game. I don't think about that as building. I think that is a game.
I don't want to limit the time that you're doing that. I want you to go read books instead or whatever the values are that that family has. So for meta... what we've kind of come to is we want to be the most aligned with parents on giving parents the tools that they need to basically control how the experiences work for their kids.
I don't want to limit the time that you're doing that. I want you to go read books instead or whatever the values are that that family has. So for meta... what we've kind of come to is we want to be the most aligned with parents on giving parents the tools that they need to basically control how the experiences work for their kids.
I don't want to limit the time that you're doing that. I want you to go read books instead or whatever the values are that that family has. So for meta... what we've kind of come to is we want to be the most aligned with parents on giving parents the tools that they need to basically control how the experiences work for their kids.
Now we don't even really, except for like stuff like messenger kids, we don't even have our services, our apps generally available to people under the age of 13 at all. So I'm in our kids. I haven't had to like have the conversation about when, when they get Instagram or Facebook or any of that stuff. But, um, but when they turn 13, um,
Now we don't even really, except for like stuff like messenger kids, we don't even have our services, our apps generally available to people under the age of 13 at all. So I'm in our kids. I haven't had to like have the conversation about when, when they get Instagram or Facebook or any of that stuff. But, um, but when they turn 13, um,
Now we don't even really, except for like stuff like messenger kids, we don't even have our services, our apps generally available to people under the age of 13 at all. So I'm in our kids. I haven't had to like have the conversation about when, when they get Instagram or Facebook or any of that stuff. But, um, but when they turn 13, um,
we basically want parents to be able to have complete control over the kid's experience. And that's, you know, we just rolled out this Instagram teens thing, which is, it's a set of, of controls where, you know, it's, if you're an older teen, we'll just default you into the private experience. That way you're not getting like harassed or bombarded with stuff. And, um,
we basically want parents to be able to have complete control over the kid's experience. And that's, you know, we just rolled out this Instagram teens thing, which is, it's a set of, of controls where, you know, it's, if you're an older teen, we'll just default you into the private experience. That way you're not getting like harassed or bombarded with stuff. And, um,
we basically want parents to be able to have complete control over the kid's experience. And that's, you know, we just rolled out this Instagram teens thing, which is, it's a set of, of controls where, you know, it's, if you're an older teen, we'll just default you into the private experience. That way you're not getting like harassed or bombarded with stuff. And, um,
But if you're a younger teen, then you have to get your parents permission and they actually have to like sign in and do all the stuff in order to make it so that you can connect with people who are beyond your network or if you want to kind of be a public figure, like all these different kinds of things.
But if you're a younger teen, then you have to get your parents permission and they actually have to like sign in and do all the stuff in order to make it so that you can connect with people who are beyond your network or if you want to kind of be a public figure, like all these different kinds of things.
But if you're a younger teen, then you have to get your parents permission and they actually have to like sign in and do all the stuff in order to make it so that you can connect with people who are beyond your network or if you want to kind of be a public figure, like all these different kinds of things.
So I think that that's probably from a values perspective where we should be is just trying to like be an ally of parents. But it is complicated stuff. I mean, it's every family wants to do it differently.
So I think that that's probably from a values perspective where we should be is just trying to like be an ally of parents. But it is complicated stuff. I mean, it's every family wants to do it differently.
So I think that that's probably from a values perspective where we should be is just trying to like be an ally of parents. But it is complicated stuff. I mean, it's every family wants to do it differently.
Well, the people who do the training in VR definitely make less mistakes.
Well, the people who do the training in VR definitely make less mistakes.
Well, the people who do the training in VR definitely make less mistakes.
My zombie game is Arizona Sunshine. Oh, what's that one? It can be multiplayer, and there's horde mode where you just get in there and... They're like four friends, and there's just waves of zombies come, and you have to kill them all.
My zombie game is Arizona Sunshine. Oh, what's that one? It can be multiplayer, and there's horde mode where you just get in there and... They're like four friends, and there's just waves of zombies come, and you have to kill them all.
My zombie game is Arizona Sunshine. Oh, what's that one? It can be multiplayer, and there's horde mode where you just get in there and... They're like four friends, and there's just waves of zombies come, and you have to kill them all.
It's very therapeutic. You just wait until they come at a point-blank range.
It's very therapeutic. You just wait until they come at a point-blank range.
It's very therapeutic. You just wait until they come at a point-blank range.
Is that possible? It's possible. I think that there's other things that are probably more important to deliver. So I guess taking a step back. A lot of how we think about the goal here is delivering like a realistic sense of presence. Right. No technology today gives you the feeling as if you're like physically there with another person. Right.
Is that possible? It's possible. I think that there's other things that are probably more important to deliver. So I guess taking a step back. A lot of how we think about the goal here is delivering like a realistic sense of presence. Right. No technology today gives you the feeling as if you're like physically there with another person. Right.
Is that possible? It's possible. I think that there's other things that are probably more important to deliver. So I guess taking a step back. A lot of how we think about the goal here is delivering like a realistic sense of presence. Right. No technology today gives you the feeling as if you're like physically there with another person. Right.
You're you're like interacting with them through a phone. You have this little window. It's kind of taking you away from everything. That's like the magic of augmented and virtual reality is like you actually feel this like presence, like you're there with another person. Right. The question is, OK, how do you do that? And it's like there's like a million things that contribute to that.
You're you're like interacting with them through a phone. You have this little window. It's kind of taking you away from everything. That's like the magic of augmented and virtual reality is like you actually feel this like presence, like you're there with another person. Right. The question is, OK, how do you do that? And it's like there's like a million things that contribute to that.
You're you're like interacting with them through a phone. You have this little window. It's kind of taking you away from everything. That's like the magic of augmented and virtual reality is like you actually feel this like presence, like you're there with another person. Right. The question is, OK, how do you do that? And it's like there's like a million things that contribute to that.
I mean, obviously, first, just being able to look around and have the room stay, getting good spatial audio, right? If someone speaks, then it should do the audio. It needs to be 3D and come from the place where they're speaking. Yeah. It's very interesting which things end up being important for creating this sense of presence and which don't.
I mean, obviously, first, just being able to look around and have the room stay, getting good spatial audio, right? If someone speaks, then it should do the audio. It needs to be 3D and come from the place where they're speaking. Yeah. It's very interesting which things end up being important for creating this sense of presence and which don't.
I mean, obviously, first, just being able to look around and have the room stay, getting good spatial audio, right? If someone speaks, then it should do the audio. It needs to be 3D and come from the place where they're speaking. Yeah. It's very interesting which things end up being important for creating this sense of presence and which don't.
So having hands, obviously, if you're just looking around but you can't actually move things, that breaks the illusion. But having hands, like hand tracking that you can do stuff is important. One thing that we found that's kind of funny is... is it's actually not that important that you see your arms. You just need to see your hands.
So having hands, obviously, if you're just looking around but you can't actually move things, that breaks the illusion. But having hands, like hand tracking that you can do stuff is important. One thing that we found that's kind of funny is... is it's actually not that important that you see your arms. You just need to see your hands.
So having hands, obviously, if you're just looking around but you can't actually move things, that breaks the illusion. But having hands, like hand tracking that you can do stuff is important. One thing that we found that's kind of funny is... is it's actually not that important that you see your arms. You just need to see your hands.
Obviously, seeing your arms is a bonus unless we incorrectly interpolate where your elbows are or something. So if we're looking at your hand or if we have a controller, we can know, okay, your hand is here. But that doesn't necessarily tell us where your elbow is. Your elbow could be like this. It could be like this. So you can kind of guess from that. But if we get that wrong...
Obviously, seeing your arms is a bonus unless we incorrectly interpolate where your elbows are or something. So if we're looking at your hand or if we have a controller, we can know, okay, your hand is here. But that doesn't necessarily tell us where your elbow is. Your elbow could be like this. It could be like this. So you can kind of guess from that. But if we get that wrong...
Obviously, seeing your arms is a bonus unless we incorrectly interpolate where your elbows are or something. So if we're looking at your hand or if we have a controller, we can know, okay, your hand is here. But that doesn't necessarily tell us where your elbow is. Your elbow could be like this. It could be like this. So you can kind of guess from that. But if we get that wrong...
And you like see in VR, it's like you see the hand there and your elbow is like looks like it's here when it's actually out there. You're like, ah, what's going on? Like that's messed up. So it's a lot of these things like you just don't want to get these details wrong. So haptics, the most important first thing for haptics is on the hand, right? I mean, we have so many more.
And you like see in VR, it's like you see the hand there and your elbow is like looks like it's here when it's actually out there. You're like, ah, what's going on? Like that's messed up. So it's a lot of these things like you just don't want to get these details wrong. So haptics, the most important first thing for haptics is on the hand, right? I mean, we have so many more.
And you like see in VR, it's like you see the hand there and your elbow is like looks like it's here when it's actually out there. You're like, ah, what's going on? Like that's messed up. So it's a lot of these things like you just don't want to get these details wrong. So haptics, the most important first thing for haptics is on the hand, right? I mean, we have so many more.
Um, the neurons basically, or not neurons, but just like the, like sensation, it's like such higher resolution, um, on your, on your fingertips than anywhere else in the body. So, you know, when you grab something, you know, making it so that you feel some pushback, right.
Um, the neurons basically, or not neurons, but just like the, like sensation, it's like such higher resolution, um, on your, on your fingertips than anywhere else in the body. So, you know, when you grab something, you know, making it so that you feel some pushback, right.
Um, the neurons basically, or not neurons, but just like the, like sensation, it's like such higher resolution, um, on your, on your fingertips than anywhere else in the body. So, you know, when you grab something, you know, making it so that you feel some pushback, right.
When you, there's a lot of gaming systems at this point where if you like pull a trigger, you get like a little bit of a rumble or something, um, We built this one thing where it's like a ping pong paddle with a sensor in it. And you feel the ball.
When you, there's a lot of gaming systems at this point where if you like pull a trigger, you get like a little bit of a rumble or something, um, We built this one thing where it's like a ping pong paddle with a sensor in it. And you feel the ball.
When you, there's a lot of gaming systems at this point where if you like pull a trigger, you get like a little bit of a rumble or something, um, We built this one thing where it's like a ping pong paddle with a sensor in it. And you feel the ball.
like the virtual ball hitting the ping pong paddle and it feels like like when you're actually playing ping pong it doesn't it's not like a generic thing where just like you feel it hit the paddle you feel where it hits the paddle and we basically built a system where now with this like physical paddle you can kind of it that the haptics make it so you can feel where the ball hits the paddle so it's like all these things like are just going towards delivering a more realistic experience so um
like the virtual ball hitting the ping pong paddle and it feels like like when you're actually playing ping pong it doesn't it's not like a generic thing where just like you feel it hit the paddle you feel where it hits the paddle and we basically built a system where now with this like physical paddle you can kind of it that the haptics make it so you can feel where the ball hits the paddle so it's like all these things like are just going towards delivering a more realistic experience so um
like the virtual ball hitting the ping pong paddle and it feels like like when you're actually playing ping pong it doesn't it's not like a generic thing where just like you feel it hit the paddle you feel where it hits the paddle and we basically built a system where now with this like physical paddle you can kind of it that the haptics make it so you can feel where the ball hits the paddle so it's like all these things like are just going towards delivering a more realistic experience so um
Full body haptics. So, there are some things that I think it could do. Like, if you're playing a boxing game and you get punched in the stomach, you can probably simulate something like that a little. It's not going to be able to deliver that much force. So, I mean, I guess that's maybe a good thing because no one wants to get punched in the stomach that hard. But, like...
Full body haptics. So, there are some things that I think it could do. Like, if you're playing a boxing game and you get punched in the stomach, you can probably simulate something like that a little. It's not going to be able to deliver that much force. So, I mean, I guess that's maybe a good thing because no one wants to get punched in the stomach that hard. But, like...
Full body haptics. So, there are some things that I think it could do. Like, if you're playing a boxing game and you get punched in the stomach, you can probably simulate something like that a little. It's not going to be able to deliver that much force. So, I mean, I guess that's maybe a good thing because no one wants to get punched in the stomach that hard. But, like...
It's not going to be able to deliver enough force for you to, for example, let's say you're not just boxing, you're kickboxing. Like, I don't know, you need something on the other side to be able to complete it, right? Because it's like when you kick, when you're just practicing, it's like you spin, right? Because you don't want to just like stop. And that's like the shadowing a kick. Yeah.
It's not going to be able to deliver enough force for you to, for example, let's say you're not just boxing, you're kickboxing. Like, I don't know, you need something on the other side to be able to complete it, right? Because it's like when you kick, when you're just practicing, it's like you spin, right? Because you don't want to just like stop. And that's like the shadowing a kick. Yeah.
It's not going to be able to deliver enough force for you to, for example, let's say you're not just boxing, you're kickboxing. Like, I don't know, you need something on the other side to be able to complete it, right? Because it's like when you kick, when you're just practicing, it's like you spin, right? Because you don't want to just like stop. And that's like the shadowing a kick. Yeah.
Like there's not going to be anything that you can do as like a single person playing VR with a haptic suit that like makes it so that you're going to be able to kick someone who's not there physically and actually be able to do that. Right.
Like there's not going to be anything that you can do as like a single person playing VR with a haptic suit that like makes it so that you're going to be able to kick someone who's not there physically and actually be able to do that. Right.
Like there's not going to be anything that you can do as like a single person playing VR with a haptic suit that like makes it so that you're going to be able to kick someone who's not there physically and actually be able to do that. Right.
So like grappling, it's like I think that jujitsu is going to be the last thing that we're able to do in VR because you need the momentum of the other person and to be able to move them. The boxing thing is actually good. Boxing works.
So like grappling, it's like I think that jujitsu is going to be the last thing that we're able to do in VR because you need the momentum of the other person and to be able to move them. The boxing thing is actually good. Boxing works.
So like grappling, it's like I think that jujitsu is going to be the last thing that we're able to do in VR because you need the momentum of the other person and to be able to move them. The boxing thing is actually good. Boxing works.
Yeah, boxing works. And you don't really need the haptics. I think it would be better with it. That's probably one of the better cases. I think it's that and getting shot or sword fighting type stuff. So you can just feel it on your body. I don't know. I think what's basically going to end up happening is you're going to have a home set up for these things.
Yeah, boxing works. And you don't really need the haptics. I think it would be better with it. That's probably one of the better cases. I think it's that and getting shot or sword fighting type stuff. So you can just feel it on your body. I don't know. I think what's basically going to end up happening is you're going to have a home set up for these things.
Yeah, boxing works. And you don't really need the haptics. I think it would be better with it. That's probably one of the better cases. I think it's that and getting shot or sword fighting type stuff. So you can just feel it on your body. I don't know. I think what's basically going to end up happening is you're going to have a home set up for these things.
And then you're going to have... There are these location-based services where people... It's almost like a theme park where you can go into and you can have a really immersive VR experience where it's not just that you get a vest that can simulate some haptics. It's that you're also in a real physical environment. So they can like...
And then you're going to have... There are these location-based services where people... It's almost like a theme park where you can go into and you can have a really immersive VR experience where it's not just that you get a vest that can simulate some haptics. It's that you're also in a real physical environment. So they can like...
And then you're going to have... There are these location-based services where people... It's almost like a theme park where you can go into and you can have a really immersive VR experience where it's not just that you get a vest that can simulate some haptics. It's that you're also in a real physical environment. So they can like...
have smoke come out or something and you can smell that and feel that or like spray some water and it feels humid. And I think that it still is going to be a while before you can just like virtually create all those sensations. I think a lot of those really rich experiences are going to be in these very constructed environments.
have smoke come out or something and you can smell that and feel that or like spray some water and it feels humid. And I think that it still is going to be a while before you can just like virtually create all those sensations. I think a lot of those really rich experiences are going to be in these very constructed environments.
have smoke come out or something and you can smell that and feel that or like spray some water and it feels humid. And I think that it still is going to be a while before you can just like virtually create all those sensations. I think a lot of those really rich experiences are going to be in these very constructed environments.
Well, you know, in terms of neural interfaces, there are two approaches to the problem, roughly. Right. There's the kind of jacket into your brain neural interface. And there's the wrist based neural interface thing that, you know, we showed you for Orion, the smart glasses.
Well, you know, in terms of neural interfaces, there are two approaches to the problem, roughly. Right. There's the kind of jacket into your brain neural interface. And there's the wrist based neural interface thing that, you know, we showed you for Orion, the smart glasses.
Well, you know, in terms of neural interfaces, there are two approaches to the problem, roughly. Right. There's the kind of jacket into your brain neural interface. And there's the wrist based neural interface thing that, you know, we showed you for Orion, the smart glasses.
And I would guess that. You know, I think it's going to be a while before we're really widely deploying anything that jacks into your brain. I think that there are a lot of people who don't want to be the early adopters of that technology. You want to like wait until that's pretty mature before you get that. I mean, that's basically going to get started in medical use cases, right?
And I would guess that. You know, I think it's going to be a while before we're really widely deploying anything that jacks into your brain. I think that there are a lot of people who don't want to be the early adopters of that technology. You want to like wait until that's pretty mature before you get that. I mean, that's basically going to get started in medical use cases, right?
And I would guess that. You know, I think it's going to be a while before we're really widely deploying anything that jacks into your brain. I think that there are a lot of people who don't want to be the early adopters of that technology. You want to like wait until that's pretty mature before you get that. I mean, that's basically going to get started in medical use cases, right?
So if someone like loses sensation part of their body and now you have the ability to fix that.
So if someone like loses sensation part of their body and now you have the ability to fix that.
So if someone like loses sensation part of their body and now you have the ability to fix that.
Yeah, so, I mean, like you're saying, I mean, this is... It's so complicated, this system, that I could spend every minute of all of my time doing this and not actually focused on building any of the things that we're trying to do. AI, glasses, like the future of social media, all that stuff. So I get involved in this stuff, but in general, we have a policy team. There are people who I trust.
Yeah, so, I mean, like you're saying, I mean, this is... It's so complicated, this system, that I could spend every minute of all of my time doing this and not actually focused on building any of the things that we're trying to do. AI, glasses, like the future of social media, all that stuff. So I get involved in this stuff, but in general, we have a policy team. There are people who I trust.
Yeah, so, I mean, like you're saying, I mean, this is... It's so complicated, this system, that I could spend every minute of all of my time doing this and not actually focused on building any of the things that we're trying to do. AI, glasses, like the future of social media, all that stuff. So I get involved in this stuff, but in general, we have a policy team. There are people who I trust.
Yeah. So I think you'll basically start with people who have pretty severe conditions, who the upside is very significant, before you start jacking people in to play games better. Right? Right. A wrist-based thing, I mean, that's something, I mean, like people wear stuff on their wrist all the time, right?
Yeah. So I think you'll basically start with people who have pretty severe conditions, who the upside is very significant, before you start jacking people in to play games better. Right? Right. A wrist-based thing, I mean, that's something, I mean, like people wear stuff on their wrist all the time, right?
Yeah. So I think you'll basically start with people who have pretty severe conditions, who the upside is very significant, before you start jacking people in to play games better. Right? Right. A wrist-based thing, I mean, that's something, I mean, like people wear stuff on their wrist all the time, right?
So, and what we basically found there, that doesn't do input to you, but it's good for giving you the ability to control a computer. Because basically you have all these extra neurons that go from your brain to controlling your hand. Your hand is like super complicated.
So, and what we basically found there, that doesn't do input to you, but it's good for giving you the ability to control a computer. Because basically you have all these extra neurons that go from your brain to controlling your hand. Your hand is like super complicated.
So, and what we basically found there, that doesn't do input to you, but it's good for giving you the ability to control a computer. Because basically you have all these extra neurons that go from your brain to controlling your hand. Your hand is like super complicated.
And there's actually all these extra pathways because for a bunch of reasons, I'm neuroplasticity in case you like lose the ability to use one, they want to be able to have others. So you want the redundancy because being able to use your hand is super important. So in normal use, we've kind of all figured out some patterns of how we send signals from our brain to our hand. And yeah,
And there's actually all these extra pathways because for a bunch of reasons, I'm neuroplasticity in case you like lose the ability to use one, they want to be able to have others. So you want the redundancy because being able to use your hand is super important. So in normal use, we've kind of all figured out some patterns of how we send signals from our brain to our hand. And yeah,
And there's actually all these extra pathways because for a bunch of reasons, I'm neuroplasticity in case you like lose the ability to use one, they want to be able to have others. So you want the redundancy because being able to use your hand is super important. So in normal use, we've kind of all figured out some patterns of how we send signals from our brain to our hand. And yeah,
I think the reality is there's like all these other patterns, too, that are unused today. So you can put a wristband on your wrist that can measure activity across these neurons. And today we're starting by basically measuring as you're doing as you're like moving your fingers. But over a few versions of this, we're going to get to is like.
I think the reality is there's like all these other patterns, too, that are unused today. So you can put a wristband on your wrist that can measure activity across these neurons. And today we're starting by basically measuring as you're doing as you're like moving your fingers. But over a few versions of this, we're going to get to is like.
I think the reality is there's like all these other patterns, too, that are unused today. So you can put a wristband on your wrist that can measure activity across these neurons. And today we're starting by basically measuring as you're doing as you're like moving your fingers. But over a few versions of this, we're going to get to is like.
you won't actually even have to move your hand you'll just like trigger these neurons in opposing ways it's like you probably can't see right now it's like i'm kind of flexing something in this finger and something here so like it's not actually moving but there's some signal that the neural interface wristband if i were wearing it could pick up and i just think we're gonna be we're gonna like have glasses and we're gonna be able to be here and i'm like gonna be able to like you know
you won't actually even have to move your hand you'll just like trigger these neurons in opposing ways it's like you probably can't see right now it's like i'm kind of flexing something in this finger and something here so like it's not actually moving but there's some signal that the neural interface wristband if i were wearing it could pick up and i just think we're gonna be we're gonna like have glasses and we're gonna be able to be here and i'm like gonna be able to like you know
you won't actually even have to move your hand you'll just like trigger these neurons in opposing ways it's like you probably can't see right now it's like i'm kind of flexing something in this finger and something here so like it's not actually moving but there's some signal that the neural interface wristband if i were wearing it could pick up and i just think we're gonna be we're gonna like have glasses and we're gonna be able to be here and i'm like gonna be able to like you know
text my wife or friends or something or text AI and like get an answer to something it's like I forgot something while we were talking let me just text AI okay I just did that it's like and you can do it sitting there without anyone totally discreetly and you have glasses and like the answer just comes into your glasses I mean for me one of the one of the positive things
text my wife or friends or something or text AI and like get an answer to something it's like I forgot something while we were talking let me just text AI okay I just did that it's like and you can do it sitting there without anyone totally discreetly and you have glasses and like the answer just comes into your glasses I mean for me one of the one of the positive things
text my wife or friends or something or text AI and like get an answer to something it's like I forgot something while we were talking let me just text AI okay I just did that it's like and you can do it sitting there without anyone totally discreetly and you have glasses and like the answer just comes into your glasses I mean for me one of the one of the positive things
When COVID hit, everyone in software basically started working remotely for a while because you can, right? Software, it's like, okay, whatever. You don't have to be in the office. You can kind of be in different places. And a lot of the meetings went on to Zoom. And one of the best things about that – was basically you were able to politely have all these side conversations, right?
When COVID hit, everyone in software basically started working remotely for a while because you can, right? Software, it's like, okay, whatever. You don't have to be in the office. You can kind of be in different places. And a lot of the meetings went on to Zoom. And one of the best things about that – was basically you were able to politely have all these side conversations, right?
When COVID hit, everyone in software basically started working remotely for a while because you can, right? Software, it's like, okay, whatever. You don't have to be in the office. You can kind of be in different places. And a lot of the meetings went on to Zoom. And one of the best things about that – was basically you were able to politely have all these side conversations, right?
So it's like when you're seeing someone in person, it would be super rude if I like pulled out my phone and like just started texting someone. It would just be really weird, right? But when you're like talking to someone online, it's like, I don't know, I guess because they either can't tell your attention because it's like, because there's not good presence or if it's just the norm.
So it's like when you're seeing someone in person, it would be super rude if I like pulled out my phone and like just started texting someone. It would just be really weird, right? But when you're like talking to someone online, it's like, I don't know, I guess because they either can't tell your attention because it's like, because there's not good presence or if it's just the norm.
So it's like when you're seeing someone in person, it would be super rude if I like pulled out my phone and like just started texting someone. It would just be really weird, right? But when you're like talking to someone online, it's like, I don't know, I guess because they either can't tell your attention because it's like, because there's not good presence or if it's just the norm.
But they're like, you have like the main group conversation And then I was like, at least the norm for me was I could just like text different people on the side. It's like, OK, what do you think of this point that this person is making this meeting? Right. Like in normal life, it's like oftentimes I'd have some discussion that I have to sync up with people afterwards about how that go.
But they're like, you have like the main group conversation And then I was like, at least the norm for me was I could just like text different people on the side. It's like, OK, what do you think of this point that this person is making this meeting? Right. Like in normal life, it's like oftentimes I'd have some discussion that I have to sync up with people afterwards about how that go.
But they're like, you have like the main group conversation And then I was like, at least the norm for me was I could just like text different people on the side. It's like, OK, what do you think of this point that this person is making this meeting? Right. Like in normal life, it's like oftentimes I'd have some discussion that I have to sync up with people afterwards about how that go.
But now it's like I could do that all at the same time. Right. So you're having the group discussion and you're having the conversations with the people about the discussion that you're having in real time. But you can only do that over Zoom.
But now it's like I could do that all at the same time. Right. So you're having the group discussion and you're having the conversations with the people about the discussion that you're having in real time. But you can only do that over Zoom.
But now it's like I could do that all at the same time. Right. So you're having the group discussion and you're having the conversations with the people about the discussion that you're having in real time. But you can only do that over Zoom.
So I think being able to do that in kind of physical interactions where you're just like you're interacting with people and you can just like use an AI augmentation to be able to get extra context or help you think through something or remember something just to be able to kind of have a better conversation, be able to not have to follow up on something after the fact.
So I think being able to do that in kind of physical interactions where you're just like you're interacting with people and you can just like use an AI augmentation to be able to get extra context or help you think through something or remember something just to be able to kind of have a better conversation, be able to not have to follow up on something after the fact.
So I think being able to do that in kind of physical interactions where you're just like you're interacting with people and you can just like use an AI augmentation to be able to get extra context or help you think through something or remember something just to be able to kind of have a better conversation, be able to not have to follow up on something after the fact.
I think it's going to be super useful for all these different things.
I think it's going to be super useful for all these different things.
I think it's going to be super useful for all these different things.
The people are kind of working on this on a day-to-day basis. And the interactions that... That I was just referring to. I mean, a lot of this is documented. I mean, because, you know, Jim Jordan and the House had this whole investigation and committee into into the kind of government censorship around stuff like this. And we produced all these documents and it's all in the public domain.
The people are kind of working on this on a day-to-day basis. And the interactions that... That I was just referring to. I mean, a lot of this is documented. I mean, because, you know, Jim Jordan and the House had this whole investigation and committee into into the kind of government censorship around stuff like this. And we produced all these documents and it's all in the public domain.
The people are kind of working on this on a day-to-day basis. And the interactions that... That I was just referring to. I mean, a lot of this is documented. I mean, because, you know, Jim Jordan and the House had this whole investigation and committee into into the kind of government censorship around stuff like this. And we produced all these documents and it's all in the public domain.
Yeah, you know, I actually think it'll be a lot better on that.
Yeah, you know, I actually think it'll be a lot better on that.
Yeah, you know, I actually think it'll be a lot better on that.
Yeah, because right now we have our phones, but it takes you away from the physical environment around you. You're kind of sucked into this little screen. I think now in the future... our computing platform as it becomes more of like a glasses or eventually contact lens form factor is you're going to actually, the internet is going to get overlaid on the physical world.
Yeah, because right now we have our phones, but it takes you away from the physical environment around you. You're kind of sucked into this little screen. I think now in the future... our computing platform as it becomes more of like a glasses or eventually contact lens form factor is you're going to actually, the internet is going to get overlaid on the physical world.
Yeah, because right now we have our phones, but it takes you away from the physical environment around you. You're kind of sucked into this little screen. I think now in the future... our computing platform as it becomes more of like a glasses or eventually contact lens form factor is you're going to actually, the internet is going to get overlaid on the physical world.
So it's not like we have the physical world and now I have all my digital stuff through this tiny little window. In the future, it'll be, okay, all my attention goes to the world. The world consists of physical things and virtual things that are overlaid on it. So if we wanted to play poker or something,
So it's not like we have the physical world and now I have all my digital stuff through this tiny little window. In the future, it'll be, okay, all my attention goes to the world. The world consists of physical things and virtual things that are overlaid on it. So if we wanted to play poker or something,
So it's not like we have the physical world and now I have all my digital stuff through this tiny little window. In the future, it'll be, okay, all my attention goes to the world. The world consists of physical things and virtual things that are overlaid on it. So if we wanted to play poker or something,
we can have a physical deck of cards or we could just have a virtual kind of hologram deck of cards and snap your hands, here's the deck of cards. And like our friend who can't be here physically, like he's here as a hologram, but he can play with the kind of digital deck of cards. Also, I think, let's say you're like doing something at work, you're working on a project,
we can have a physical deck of cards or we could just have a virtual kind of hologram deck of cards and snap your hands, here's the deck of cards. And like our friend who can't be here physically, like he's here as a hologram, but he can play with the kind of digital deck of cards. Also, I think, let's say you're like doing something at work, you're working on a project,
we can have a physical deck of cards or we could just have a virtual kind of hologram deck of cards and snap your hands, here's the deck of cards. And like our friend who can't be here physically, like he's here as a hologram, but he can play with the kind of digital deck of cards. Also, I think, let's say you're like doing something at work, you're working on a project,
I think in the future we'll have AI coworkers. Those people won't even – they're not even people. They wouldn't be able to be embodied. So if you're having a physical meeting, you're sitting around with a bunch of people, they couldn't show up as, like, you know, part of the team no matter what.
I think in the future we'll have AI coworkers. Those people won't even – they're not even people. They wouldn't be able to be embodied. So if you're having a physical meeting, you're sitting around with a bunch of people, they couldn't show up as, like, you know, part of the team no matter what.
I think in the future we'll have AI coworkers. Those people won't even – they're not even people. They wouldn't be able to be embodied. So if you're having a physical meeting, you're sitting around with a bunch of people, they couldn't show up as, like, you know, part of the team no matter what.
But I think, like, we'll get to a point where just, like, your friend could show up in a hologram and, like, you're – your AI colleagues will be able to also. So I think we'll basically be in this wild world where it's like most of the world will be physical.
But I think, like, we'll get to a point where just, like, your friend could show up in a hologram and, like, you're – your AI colleagues will be able to also. So I think we'll basically be in this wild world where it's like most of the world will be physical.
But I think, like, we'll get to a point where just, like, your friend could show up in a hologram and, like, you're – your AI colleagues will be able to also. So I think we'll basically be in this wild world where it's like most of the world will be physical.
There'll be this increasing amount of virtual objects or people who are kind of beaming in or hologramming into different things to interact in different ways. I actually think that natural blending of the kind of digital world and the physical is way more natural than the segmentation that we have today where it's like you're in the physical world.
There'll be this increasing amount of virtual objects or people who are kind of beaming in or hologramming into different things to interact in different ways. I actually think that natural blending of the kind of digital world and the physical is way more natural than the segmentation that we have today where it's like you're in the physical world.
There'll be this increasing amount of virtual objects or people who are kind of beaming in or hologramming into different things to interact in different ways. I actually think that natural blending of the kind of digital world and the physical is way more natural than the segmentation that we have today where it's like you're in the physical world.
And now I'm just going to go tune it out to look at my my like I'm going to access the whole digital universe through this like five inch screen.
And now I'm just going to go tune it out to look at my my like I'm going to access the whole digital universe through this like five inch screen.
And now I'm just going to go tune it out to look at my my like I'm going to access the whole digital universe through this like five inch screen.
So I don't know. It's just it seems natural to me. It's like that's this is the world. There isn't like a physical world in a digital world anymore. We're in 2025. It's one world like these things should get blended.
So I don't know. It's just it seems natural to me. It's like that's this is the world. There isn't like a physical world in a digital world anymore. We're in 2025. It's one world like these things should get blended.
So I don't know. It's just it seems natural to me. It's like that's this is the world. There isn't like a physical world in a digital world anymore. We're in 2025. It's one world like these things should get blended.
I mean, I kind of liked the theory that It's only God if only one company or government controls it. If you were the only person who had access to a computer and the internet, you would have this inhuman power that everyone else didn't have because you could use Google and you could get access to all this stuff.
I mean, I kind of liked the theory that It's only God if only one company or government controls it. If you were the only person who had access to a computer and the internet, you would have this inhuman power that everyone else didn't have because you could use Google and you could get access to all this stuff.
I mean, I kind of liked the theory that It's only God if only one company or government controls it. If you were the only person who had access to a computer and the internet, you would have this inhuman power that everyone else didn't have because you could use Google and you could get access to all this stuff.
I mean, basically, these people from the Biden administration were. would call up our team and, like, scream at them and curse. And it's like, these documents are... It's all kind of out there. Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't... No, I don't think... I don't think we... But I think... I want to listen. I mean, there are emails. The emails are published. It's all kind of out there.
I mean, basically, these people from the Biden administration were. would call up our team and, like, scream at them and curse. And it's like, these documents are... It's all kind of out there. Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't... No, I don't think... I don't think we... But I think... I want to listen. I mean, there are emails. The emails are published. It's all kind of out there.
I mean, basically, these people from the Biden administration were. would call up our team and, like, scream at them and curse. And it's like, these documents are... It's all kind of out there. Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't... No, I don't think... I don't think we... But I think... I want to listen. I mean, there are emails. The emails are published. It's all kind of out there.
But then when everyone has it, it makes us all better, but it's also an even playing field. So that's kind of what we're going for with this whole open source thing is I just like I don't think that there's going to be like one AI. I certainly don't think that there should be one company that controls AI.
But then when everyone has it, it makes us all better, but it's also an even playing field. So that's kind of what we're going for with this whole open source thing is I just like I don't think that there's going to be like one AI. I certainly don't think that there should be one company that controls AI.
But then when everyone has it, it makes us all better, but it's also an even playing field. So that's kind of what we're going for with this whole open source thing is I just like I don't think that there's going to be like one AI. I certainly don't think that there should be one company that controls AI.
I think you like want there to be a diversity of different things and a diversity of people creating different things. different things with it. I mean, some of it will be kind of serious and helping you think through things.
I think you like want there to be a diversity of different things and a diversity of people creating different things. different things with it. I mean, some of it will be kind of serious and helping you think through things.
I think you like want there to be a diversity of different things and a diversity of people creating different things. different things with it. I mean, some of it will be kind of serious and helping you think through things.
I think like with anything on the internet, a lot of it is just going to be funny and like fun and content and people are going to create agents that are like AIs that are entertaining and they'll pass them around almost like content where it's like, just like you pass around like a reel or a video and you're like, this thing is fun.
I think like with anything on the internet, a lot of it is just going to be funny and like fun and content and people are going to create agents that are like AIs that are entertaining and they'll pass them around almost like content where it's like, just like you pass around like a reel or a video and you're like, this thing is fun.
I think like with anything on the internet, a lot of it is just going to be funny and like fun and content and people are going to create agents that are like AIs that are entertaining and they'll pass them around almost like content where it's like, just like you pass around like a reel or a video and you're like, this thing is fun.
like in the future like a video it's not interactive you know you watch it and you're consuming it but i think a lot of more entertainment in the future will be inherently interactive where someone will kind of sculpt an experience or an ai and then they'll show someone it's like oh this is funny but like it's not necessarily going to interact with that ai every day it's like okay it's funny for five minutes and then you pass it along to your friends and um so i don't know i think i think you're like
like in the future like a video it's not interactive you know you watch it and you're consuming it but i think a lot of more entertainment in the future will be inherently interactive where someone will kind of sculpt an experience or an ai and then they'll show someone it's like oh this is funny but like it's not necessarily going to interact with that ai every day it's like okay it's funny for five minutes and then you pass it along to your friends and um so i don't know i think i think you're like
like in the future like a video it's not interactive you know you watch it and you're consuming it but i think a lot of more entertainment in the future will be inherently interactive where someone will kind of sculpt an experience or an ai and then they'll show someone it's like oh this is funny but like it's not necessarily going to interact with that ai every day it's like okay it's funny for five minutes and then you pass it along to your friends and um so i don't know i think i think you're like
You want the world to have all these different things. And I think that's probably also, from my perspective, the best way to make sure that it doesn't get out of control is to make it so that it's pretty equally distributed.
You want the world to have all these different things. And I think that's probably also, from my perspective, the best way to make sure that it doesn't get out of control is to make it so that it's pretty equally distributed.
You want the world to have all these different things. And I think that's probably also, from my perspective, the best way to make sure that it doesn't get out of control is to make it so that it's pretty equally distributed.
I think this year... Probably in 2025, we at Meta, as well as the other companies that are basically working on this, are going to have an AI that can effectively be a sort of mid-level engineer that you have at your company that can write code.
I think this year... Probably in 2025, we at Meta, as well as the other companies that are basically working on this, are going to have an AI that can effectively be a sort of mid-level engineer that you have at your company that can write code.
I think this year... Probably in 2025, we at Meta, as well as the other companies that are basically working on this, are going to have an AI that can effectively be a sort of mid-level engineer that you have at your company that can write code.
And once you have that, then in the beginning it'll be really expensive to run, then you can get it to be more efficient, and then over time we'll get to the point where a lot of the code in our apps, and including the AI that we generate, is actually going to be built by AI engineers instead of people engineers. But I don't know. I think that that'll augment the people working on it.
And once you have that, then in the beginning it'll be really expensive to run, then you can get it to be more efficient, and then over time we'll get to the point where a lot of the code in our apps, and including the AI that we generate, is actually going to be built by AI engineers instead of people engineers. But I don't know. I think that that'll augment the people working on it.
And once you have that, then in the beginning it'll be really expensive to run, then you can get it to be more efficient, and then over time we'll get to the point where a lot of the code in our apps, and including the AI that we generate, is actually going to be built by AI engineers instead of people engineers. But I don't know. I think that that'll augment the people working on it.
So, I mean, my view on this is, like, the future, people are just going to be so much more creative and they're going to be freed up to do kind of crazy things. It goes back to, you know, my daughter was, like, playing with Legos before and kind of ran out of Legos. And then now she can have Minecraft and can build whatever she wants and it's so much better.
So, I mean, my view on this is, like, the future, people are just going to be so much more creative and they're going to be freed up to do kind of crazy things. It goes back to, you know, my daughter was, like, playing with Legos before and kind of ran out of Legos. And then now she can have Minecraft and can build whatever she wants and it's so much better.
So, I mean, my view on this is, like, the future, people are just going to be so much more creative and they're going to be freed up to do kind of crazy things. It goes back to, you know, my daughter was, like, playing with Legos before and kind of ran out of Legos. And then now she can have Minecraft and can build whatever she wants and it's so much better.
It's just, like, I think it's the future versions of this stuff are just going to be wild. But... unquestionably yeah another concern that people have is that it's going to eliminate a lot of jobs yeah you know what do you think about that well i think it's too it's too early to know exactly how it plays out but my guess is that it'll probably create more creative jobs than it
It's just, like, I think it's the future versions of this stuff are just going to be wild. But... unquestionably yeah another concern that people have is that it's going to eliminate a lot of jobs yeah you know what do you think about that well i think it's too it's too early to know exactly how it plays out but my guess is that it'll probably create more creative jobs than it
It's just, like, I think it's the future versions of this stuff are just going to be wild. But... unquestionably yeah another concern that people have is that it's going to eliminate a lot of jobs yeah you know what do you think about that well i think it's too it's too early to know exactly how it plays out but my guess is that it'll probably create more creative jobs than it
And they're like... And basically it just got to this point where we were like, no, we're not going to we're not going to take down things that are true. That's ridiculous.
And they're like... And basically it just got to this point where we were like, no, we're not going to we're not going to take down things that are true. That's ridiculous.
And they're like... And basically it just got to this point where we were like, no, we're not going to we're not going to take down things that are true. That's ridiculous.
Well, I guess if you look at the history of all this stuff, my understanding is like 100 years ago, I don't know if this was 100 or 150 years ago, but it was like at some point not too far along in the grand scheme of things. Like the vast majority of people in society were farmers, right? Because they kind of needed to be in order to create enough food for everyone to survive, right?
Well, I guess if you look at the history of all this stuff, my understanding is like 100 years ago, I don't know if this was 100 or 150 years ago, but it was like at some point not too far along in the grand scheme of things. Like the vast majority of people in society were farmers, right? Because they kind of needed to be in order to create enough food for everyone to survive, right?
Well, I guess if you look at the history of all this stuff, my understanding is like 100 years ago, I don't know if this was 100 or 150 years ago, but it was like at some point not too far along in the grand scheme of things. Like the vast majority of people in society were farmers, right? Because they kind of needed to be in order to create enough food for everyone to survive, right?
And then we turn that into an industrial process. And now it's like 2% of society are farmers, and we get all the food that we need. So what did that free up everyone else to do? Some of them went on to do other things that are sort of like creative pursuits or cultural pursuits or other jobs. And then some percent of it just went towards recreation. Right.
And then we turn that into an industrial process. And now it's like 2% of society are farmers, and we get all the food that we need. So what did that free up everyone else to do? Some of them went on to do other things that are sort of like creative pursuits or cultural pursuits or other jobs. And then some percent of it just went towards recreation. Right.
And then we turn that into an industrial process. And now it's like 2% of society are farmers, and we get all the food that we need. So what did that free up everyone else to do? Some of them went on to do other things that are sort of like creative pursuits or cultural pursuits or other jobs. And then some percent of it just went towards recreation. Right.
So I think generally people just don't work as many hours today as they did when back when everyone needed to farm in order to have enough food for everyone to survive. So. I think that trend is sort of played out as technology has grown. And so my guess is that like the percent of people who will be doing stuff that's like
So I think generally people just don't work as many hours today as they did when back when everyone needed to farm in order to have enough food for everyone to survive. So. I think that trend is sort of played out as technology has grown. And so my guess is that like the percent of people who will be doing stuff that's like
So I think generally people just don't work as many hours today as they did when back when everyone needed to farm in order to have enough food for everyone to survive. So. I think that trend is sort of played out as technology has grown. And so my guess is that like the percent of people who will be doing stuff that's like
physically required for humanity to survive will get to be smaller and smaller as it has. More people will dedicate themselves to kind of creative and artistic and cultural pursuits. I think that's generally good. I think the number of hours in a week that someone will have to work in order to be able to get by will probably continue to shrink.
physically required for humanity to survive will get to be smaller and smaller as it has. More people will dedicate themselves to kind of creative and artistic and cultural pursuits. I think that's generally good. I think the number of hours in a week that someone will have to work in order to be able to get by will probably continue to shrink.
physically required for humanity to survive will get to be smaller and smaller as it has. More people will dedicate themselves to kind of creative and artistic and cultural pursuits. I think that's generally good. I think the number of hours in a week that someone will have to work in order to be able to get by will probably continue to shrink.
Um, yet I think people who are super engaged in what they do are going to be able to work really hard and accomplish way more than they ever could before because they have like this unimaginable leverage from, from having a lot more technology. So I think that that, if you just like fast forwarded or extrapolated out the, the historical technological trend is what you'd get.
Um, yet I think people who are super engaged in what they do are going to be able to work really hard and accomplish way more than they ever could before because they have like this unimaginable leverage from, from having a lot more technology. So I think that that, if you just like fast forwarded or extrapolated out the, the historical technological trend is what you'd get.
Um, yet I think people who are super engaged in what they do are going to be able to work really hard and accomplish way more than they ever could before because they have like this unimaginable leverage from, from having a lot more technology. So I think that that, if you just like fast forwarded or extrapolated out the, the historical technological trend is what you'd get.
They want us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a TV talking about how 10 years from now or something, you know, you're going to see an ad that says, OK, if you took a covid vaccine, you're eligible, you know, like for for this kind of payment, like sort of like.
They want us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a TV talking about how 10 years from now or something, you know, you're going to see an ad that says, OK, if you took a covid vaccine, you're eligible, you know, like for for this kind of payment, like sort of like.
They want us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a TV talking about how 10 years from now or something, you know, you're going to see an ad that says, OK, if you took a covid vaccine, you're eligible, you know, like for for this kind of payment, like sort of like.
I think the question is what you raised, which is, is this qualitatively a different type of thing that somehow, um, obsolete people. But I just think when you're asking that, it's just important to remind ourselves that at every step along the way of human progress and technology, people thought that the technology that we were developing was gonna obsolete people.
I think the question is what you raised, which is, is this qualitatively a different type of thing that somehow, um, obsolete people. But I just think when you're asking that, it's just important to remind ourselves that at every step along the way of human progress and technology, people thought that the technology that we were developing was gonna obsolete people.
I think the question is what you raised, which is, is this qualitatively a different type of thing that somehow, um, obsolete people. But I just think when you're asking that, it's just important to remind ourselves that at every step along the way of human progress and technology, people thought that the technology that we were developing was gonna obsolete people.
So maybe this time it's really different, but I would guess that what'll happen is that the technology will get integrated into everything that we do, which again is why I think it's really important that it's open source and that it's widely available so that way it's not just one company or one government kind of monopolizing the whole thing.
So maybe this time it's really different, but I would guess that what'll happen is that the technology will get integrated into everything that we do, which again is why I think it's really important that it's open source and that it's widely available so that way it's not just one company or one government kind of monopolizing the whole thing.
So maybe this time it's really different, but I would guess that what'll happen is that the technology will get integrated into everything that we do, which again is why I think it's really important that it's open source and that it's widely available so that way it's not just one company or one government kind of monopolizing the whole thing.
Um, and I'd guess that if we do it in that way, we'll all just kind of have superpowers is my, is my guess. Um, rather than it, it's sort of. creating some kind of a runaway thing.
Um, and I'd guess that if we do it in that way, we'll all just kind of have superpowers is my, is my guess. Um, rather than it, it's sort of. creating some kind of a runaway thing.
Um, and I'd guess that if we do it in that way, we'll all just kind of have superpowers is my, is my guess. Um, rather than it, it's sort of. creating some kind of a runaway thing.
One of the things that I think has been interesting, this may be going in a somewhat different direction than what you're asking, or a different take on the question, is I think one of the more interesting philosophical findings from the work in AI so far is I think people... conflate a number of factors into what makes a person a person.
One of the things that I think has been interesting, this may be going in a somewhat different direction than what you're asking, or a different take on the question, is I think one of the more interesting philosophical findings from the work in AI so far is I think people... conflate a number of factors into what makes a person a person.
One of the things that I think has been interesting, this may be going in a somewhat different direction than what you're asking, or a different take on the question, is I think one of the more interesting philosophical findings from the work in AI so far is I think people... conflate a number of factors into what makes a person a person.
So there's intelligence, there's will, there's consciousness. And like, I think we kind of think about those three things as, as if there's somehow a, Right. It's like if you're intelligent, then you must also have a like a goal for what you're trying to do or you must have some sort of consciousness. But I think like one of the crazier sort of philosophical questions.
So there's intelligence, there's will, there's consciousness. And like, I think we kind of think about those three things as, as if there's somehow a, Right. It's like if you're intelligent, then you must also have a like a goal for what you're trying to do or you must have some sort of consciousness. But I think like one of the crazier sort of philosophical questions.
So there's intelligence, there's will, there's consciousness. And like, I think we kind of think about those three things as, as if there's somehow a, Right. It's like if you're intelligent, then you must also have a like a goal for what you're trying to do or you must have some sort of consciousness. But I think like one of the crazier sort of philosophical questions.
results from the fact that, okay, you have like meta AI or chat GPT today, and it's just kind of sitting there and you can ask it a question and deploy like a ton of intelligence to answer a question. And then it just kind of shuts itself down. Like that's intelligence that is just sitting there without either having a will or consciousness. And like, I just think it's not a super obvious thing.
results from the fact that, okay, you have like meta AI or chat GPT today, and it's just kind of sitting there and you can ask it a question and deploy like a ton of intelligence to answer a question. And then it just kind of shuts itself down. Like that's intelligence that is just sitting there without either having a will or consciousness. And like, I just think it's not a super obvious thing.
results from the fact that, okay, you have like meta AI or chat GPT today, and it's just kind of sitting there and you can ask it a question and deploy like a ton of intelligence to answer a question. And then it just kind of shuts itself down. Like that's intelligence that is just sitting there without either having a will or consciousness. And like, I just think it's not a super obvious thing.
result that that would be the case right i think a lot of people they anthropomorphize this stuff and when you're thinking about kind of science fiction you think that okay you're going to get to something that's like super smart it's going to like want something or like be able to feel and well you know that chat gpt tried to copy itself when it found out it was being shut down tried to rewrite its code
result that that would be the case right i think a lot of people they anthropomorphize this stuff and when you're thinking about kind of science fiction you think that okay you're going to get to something that's like super smart it's going to like want something or like be able to feel and well you know that chat gpt tried to copy itself when it found out it was being shut down tried to rewrite its code
result that that would be the case right i think a lot of people they anthropomorphize this stuff and when you're thinking about kind of science fiction you think that okay you're going to get to something that's like super smart it's going to like want something or like be able to feel and well you know that chat gpt tried to copy itself when it found out it was being shut down tried to rewrite its code
class action lawsuit type meme and they're like no you have to take that down we said no we're not gonna we're not gonna take down humor and satire we're not gonna take down things that are that are true and then at some point um i guess uh i don't flipped a bit i mean biden when he was he gave some statement at some point i don't know if it's a press conference or to some journalists where he basically was like these guys are killing people and and um and
class action lawsuit type meme and they're like no you have to take that down we said no we're not gonna we're not gonna take down humor and satire we're not gonna take down things that are that are true and then at some point um i guess uh i don't flipped a bit i mean biden when he was he gave some statement at some point i don't know if it's a press conference or to some journalists where he basically was like these guys are killing people and and um and
class action lawsuit type meme and they're like no you have to take that down we said no we're not gonna we're not gonna take down humor and satire we're not gonna take down things that are that are true and then at some point um i guess uh i don't flipped a bit i mean biden when he was he gave some statement at some point i don't know if it's a press conference or to some journalists where he basically was like these guys are killing people and and um and
I think you need to be careful with these things, like what guardrails you give it. If you're telling it like... At all costs.
I think you need to be careful with these things, like what guardrails you give it. If you're telling it like... At all costs.
I think you need to be careful with these things, like what guardrails you give it. If you're telling it like... At all costs.
Yeah, although the thing about... So these reasoning models, right? So there's like the first generation of models, the LLMs, right? That's what you think of as like chat GPT or meta AI or like the two most used ones. And that's basically, it's sort of like a chat bot, right? You ask it a question, it takes the prompt, it gives you a response. Now...
Yeah, although the thing about... So these reasoning models, right? So there's like the first generation of models, the LLMs, right? That's what you think of as like chat GPT or meta AI or like the two most used ones. And that's basically, it's sort of like a chat bot, right? You ask it a question, it takes the prompt, it gives you a response. Now...
Yeah, although the thing about... So these reasoning models, right? So there's like the first generation of models, the LLMs, right? That's what you think of as like chat GPT or meta AI or like the two most used ones. And that's basically, it's sort of like a chat bot, right? You ask it a question, it takes the prompt, it gives you a response. Now...
The next generation of reasoning models are basically, instead of just having one response, they now are able to build out like a whole tree of how they would respond. So you give it a question, and instead of running one query, maybe it's running 1,000 queries or a million queries to kind of map out Who are the things that I could do? And if I do that, then here's what I could do next.
The next generation of reasoning models are basically, instead of just having one response, they now are able to build out like a whole tree of how they would respond. So you give it a question, and instead of running one query, maybe it's running 1,000 queries or a million queries to kind of map out Who are the things that I could do? And if I do that, then here's what I could do next.
The next generation of reasoning models are basically, instead of just having one response, they now are able to build out like a whole tree of how they would respond. So you give it a question, and instead of running one query, maybe it's running 1,000 queries or a million queries to kind of map out Who are the things that I could do? And if I do that, then here's what I could do next.
So it's a lot more kind of expensive to run, but also gets you better reasoning and is more intelligent. That stuff I think you do need to be very careful about how you – like what the guardrails are that you give it. But it's also I think the case that at least for the next period, it's going to take a lot of compute to run those models and do a lot of the stuff that they're talking about.
So it's a lot more kind of expensive to run, but also gets you better reasoning and is more intelligent. That stuff I think you do need to be very careful about how you – like what the guardrails are that you give it. But it's also I think the case that at least for the next period, it's going to take a lot of compute to run those models and do a lot of the stuff that they're talking about.
So it's a lot more kind of expensive to run, but also gets you better reasoning and is more intelligent. That stuff I think you do need to be very careful about how you – like what the guardrails are that you give it. But it's also I think the case that at least for the next period, it's going to take a lot of compute to run those models and do a lot of the stuff that they're talking about.
So I don't know. I think one of the interesting questions is like how much of this are you going to actually be able to do on a pair of glasses or on a phone versus is like a government or a company that has like a whole data center going to be able to do. And that'll, I mean, it'll always get efficient.
So I don't know. I think one of the interesting questions is like how much of this are you going to actually be able to do on a pair of glasses or on a phone versus is like a government or a company that has like a whole data center going to be able to do. And that'll, I mean, it'll always get efficient.
So I don't know. I think one of the interesting questions is like how much of this are you going to actually be able to do on a pair of glasses or on a phone versus is like a government or a company that has like a whole data center going to be able to do. And that'll, I mean, it'll always get efficient.
So, you know, it's like you can start doing something and then maybe the next year you can do it 10 times more efficiently. But that's certainly the next set of things that needs to get worked on in the industry, making sure that goes well.
So, you know, it's like you can start doing something and then maybe the next year you can do it 10 times more efficiently. But that's certainly the next set of things that needs to get worked on in the industry, making sure that goes well.
So, you know, it's like you can start doing something and then maybe the next year you can do it 10 times more efficiently. But that's certainly the next set of things that needs to get worked on in the industry, making sure that goes well.
I'm not really an expert on quantum computing. My understanding is that's still quite a ways off from being a very useful paradigm. I think Google just had some breakthrough, but I think most people still think that's like a decade plus out. So my guess is we're going to have pretty smart AIs even before that. But... Yeah.
I'm not really an expert on quantum computing. My understanding is that's still quite a ways off from being a very useful paradigm. I think Google just had some breakthrough, but I think most people still think that's like a decade plus out. So my guess is we're going to have pretty smart AIs even before that. But... Yeah.
I'm not really an expert on quantum computing. My understanding is that's still quite a ways off from being a very useful paradigm. I think Google just had some breakthrough, but I think most people still think that's like a decade plus out. So my guess is we're going to have pretty smart AIs even before that. But... Yeah.
I mean, look, I mean, I think that this stuff has to get it needs to be developed thoughtfully. Right. But I don't know. I still think we're generally just going to be better off in a world where this is like deployed pretty evenly. And, you know, it's I guess here's another analogy that I think about.
I mean, look, I mean, I think that this stuff has to get it needs to be developed thoughtfully. Right. But I don't know. I still think we're generally just going to be better off in a world where this is like deployed pretty evenly. And, you know, it's I guess here's another analogy that I think about.
I mean, look, I mean, I think that this stuff has to get it needs to be developed thoughtfully. Right. But I don't know. I still think we're generally just going to be better off in a world where this is like deployed pretty evenly. And, you know, it's I guess here's another analogy that I think about.
there's like bugs and security holes in basically every software, every piece of software that everyone uses. So if you could go back in time a few years, knowing the security holes that we're now aware of, you as an individual could basically like break into any system AI will be able to do that too. It'll be able to probe and find exploits.
there's like bugs and security holes in basically every software, every piece of software that everyone uses. So if you could go back in time a few years, knowing the security holes that we're now aware of, you as an individual could basically like break into any system AI will be able to do that too. It'll be able to probe and find exploits.
there's like bugs and security holes in basically every software, every piece of software that everyone uses. So if you could go back in time a few years, knowing the security holes that we're now aware of, you as an individual could basically like break into any system AI will be able to do that too. It'll be able to probe and find exploits.
So what's the way to prevent AI from going kind of nuts? I think part of it is just having AI widely deployed. So that way, like the AI for one system defends itself against the AI that like is, is potentially doing something problematic in another system. I think it's like AI wars. That's not wars. I think it's just like, it's, I don't know. It's, I think it's a very,
So what's the way to prevent AI from going kind of nuts? I think part of it is just having AI widely deployed. So that way, like the AI for one system defends itself against the AI that like is, is potentially doing something problematic in another system. I think it's like AI wars. That's not wars. I think it's just like, it's, I don't know. It's, I think it's a very,
So what's the way to prevent AI from going kind of nuts? I think part of it is just having AI widely deployed. So that way, like the AI for one system defends itself against the AI that like is, is potentially doing something problematic in another system. I think it's like AI wars. That's not wars. I think it's just like, it's, I don't know. It's, I think it's a very,
I don't know. Then, like, all these different agencies and branches of government basically just, like, started investigating and coming after our company. It was brutal. It was brutal.
I don't know. Then, like, all these different agencies and branches of government basically just, like, started investigating and coming after our company. It was brutal. It was brutal.
I don't know. Then, like, all these different agencies and branches of government basically just, like, started investigating and coming after our company. It was brutal. It was brutal.
It's sort of like why there are guns, right? It's like, cause I mean, there's- Oh boy.
It's sort of like why there are guns, right? It's like, cause I mean, there's- Oh boy.
It's sort of like why there are guns, right? It's like, cause I mean, there's- Oh boy.
Part of it is hunting. No, no. And part of it is like, people can defend each other. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like- Anti-virus software. Yeah. It's like, I don't think you want to live in a world where like only one person has all the guns.
Part of it is hunting. No, no. And part of it is like, people can defend each other. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like- Anti-virus software. Yeah. It's like, I don't think you want to live in a world where like only one person has all the guns.
Part of it is hunting. No, no. And part of it is like, people can defend each other. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like- Anti-virus software. Yeah. It's like, I don't think you want to live in a world where like only one person has all the guns.
Yes. Yes. Which I mean, I think is is part of the issue is like when people talk about trying to lock this stuff down, like I just I'm skeptical that that's even possible.
Yes. Yes. Which I mean, I think is is part of the issue is like when people talk about trying to lock this stuff down, like I just I'm skeptical that that's even possible.
Yes. Yes. Which I mean, I think is is part of the issue is like when people talk about trying to lock this stuff down, like I just I'm skeptical that that's even possible.
Because I kind of think like we try to lock it down, then we're going to be in a position where the only people are going to have access to it or the big companies working on it and the Chinese government that steals it from them.
Because I kind of think like we try to lock it down, then we're going to be in a position where the only people are going to have access to it or the big companies working on it and the Chinese government that steals it from them.
Because I kind of think like we try to lock it down, then we're going to be in a position where the only people are going to have access to it or the big companies working on it and the Chinese government that steals it from them.
So I kind of just think like, no, what you want to do is get this to be open source, have it widely available. Yeah, some adversaries might also have access to it. But the way that you defend against that is by having it built into all these different systems.
So I kind of just think like, no, what you want to do is get this to be open source, have it widely available. Yeah, some adversaries might also have access to it. But the way that you defend against that is by having it built into all these different systems.
So I kind of just think like, no, what you want to do is get this to be open source, have it widely available. Yeah, some adversaries might also have access to it. But the way that you defend against that is by having it built into all these different systems.
And I know... I have some opinions about this.
And I know... I have some opinions about this.
And I know... I have some opinions about this.
I mean, look... The iPhone is obviously one of the most important inventions probably of all time. You know, Steve Jobs came out with it in 2007. I started Facebook in 2004. So he was working on the iPhone while I was getting started with Facebook.
I mean, look... The iPhone is obviously one of the most important inventions probably of all time. You know, Steve Jobs came out with it in 2007. I started Facebook in 2004. So he was working on the iPhone while I was getting started with Facebook.
I mean, look... The iPhone is obviously one of the most important inventions probably of all time. You know, Steve Jobs came out with it in 2007. I started Facebook in 2004. So he was working on the iPhone while I was getting started with Facebook.
So I basically, you know, one of my, one of the things that's been interesting in my 20 years of running the company is that I basically like the dominant platform out there is smartphones. on the one hand it's been great for us because we are able to build these tools that everyone can have in their pocket. And there's like 4 billion people who use the different apps that we use.
So I basically, you know, one of my, one of the things that's been interesting in my 20 years of running the company is that I basically like the dominant platform out there is smartphones. on the one hand it's been great for us because we are able to build these tools that everyone can have in their pocket. And there's like 4 billion people who use the different apps that we use.
So I basically, you know, one of my, one of the things that's been interesting in my 20 years of running the company is that I basically like the dominant platform out there is smartphones. on the one hand it's been great for us because we are able to build these tools that everyone can have in their pocket. And there's like 4 billion people who use the different apps that we use.
And it's like, I'm grateful that that platform exists, but we didn't play any role in basically building that, um, those phones, because I mean, it was kind of getting worked on while I was still just trying to make the first website that I was making into a thing. And, um,
And it's like, I'm grateful that that platform exists, but we didn't play any role in basically building that, um, those phones, because I mean, it was kind of getting worked on while I was still just trying to make the first website that I was making into a thing. And, um,
And it's like, I'm grateful that that platform exists, but we didn't play any role in basically building that, um, those phones, because I mean, it was kind of getting worked on while I was still just trying to make the first website that I was making into a thing. And, um,
On the one hand, it's been great because now pretty much everyone in the world has a phone, and that's kind of what enables pretty amazing things. But on the other hand, like you're saying, they have used that platform to put in place a lot of rules that... I think it feel arbitrary and feel like, you know, they haven't really invented anything great in a while.
On the one hand, it's been great because now pretty much everyone in the world has a phone, and that's kind of what enables pretty amazing things. But on the other hand, like you're saying, they have used that platform to put in place a lot of rules that... I think it feel arbitrary and feel like, you know, they haven't really invented anything great in a while.
On the one hand, it's been great because now pretty much everyone in the world has a phone, and that's kind of what enables pretty amazing things. But on the other hand, like you're saying, they have used that platform to put in place a lot of rules that... I think it feel arbitrary and feel like, you know, they haven't really invented anything great in a while.
And it's like Steve Jobs invented the the iPhone and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later. And they actually I think year over year. I'm not even sure they're. selling more iPhones at this point. I think like the sales might actually be declining. I think part of it is that each generation doesn't actually get that much better.
And it's like Steve Jobs invented the the iPhone and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later. And they actually I think year over year. I'm not even sure they're. selling more iPhones at this point. I think like the sales might actually be declining. I think part of it is that each generation doesn't actually get that much better.
And it's like Steve Jobs invented the the iPhone and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later. And they actually I think year over year. I'm not even sure they're. selling more iPhones at this point. I think like the sales might actually be declining. I think part of it is that each generation doesn't actually get that much better.
So people are just taking longer to upgrade than they would before. So the number of sales I think has generally been flat to declining. So how are they making more money as a company? Well, they do it by basically squeezing people. And like you're saying, having this 30% tax on developers by getting you to buy more peripherals and things that plug into it.
So people are just taking longer to upgrade than they would before. So the number of sales I think has generally been flat to declining. So how are they making more money as a company? Well, they do it by basically squeezing people. And like you're saying, having this 30% tax on developers by getting you to buy more peripherals and things that plug into it.
So people are just taking longer to upgrade than they would before. So the number of sales I think has generally been flat to declining. So how are they making more money as a company? Well, they do it by basically squeezing people. And like you're saying, having this 30% tax on developers by getting you to buy more peripherals and things that plug into it.
They build stuff like AirPods, which are cool, but they've just thoroughly... hamstrung the ability for anyone else to build something that can connect to the iPhone in the same way. So, I mean, there are a lot of other companies in the world that would be able to build like a very good earbud, but it just, um,
They build stuff like AirPods, which are cool, but they've just thoroughly... hamstrung the ability for anyone else to build something that can connect to the iPhone in the same way. So, I mean, there are a lot of other companies in the world that would be able to build like a very good earbud, but it just, um,
They build stuff like AirPods, which are cool, but they've just thoroughly... hamstrung the ability for anyone else to build something that can connect to the iPhone in the same way. So, I mean, there are a lot of other companies in the world that would be able to build like a very good earbud, but it just, um,
Apple has a specific protocol that they've built into the iPhone that allows AirPods to basically connect to it. And it's just much more seamless because they've enabled that, but they don't let anyone else use the protocol. If they did, there would probably be much better competitors to AirPods out there.
Apple has a specific protocol that they've built into the iPhone that allows AirPods to basically connect to it. And it's just much more seamless because they've enabled that, but they don't let anyone else use the protocol. If they did, there would probably be much better competitors to AirPods out there.
Apple has a specific protocol that they've built into the iPhone that allows AirPods to basically connect to it. And it's just much more seamless because they've enabled that, but they don't let anyone else use the protocol. If they did, there would probably be much better competitors to AirPods out there.
And whenever you push on this, they get super touchy and they basically wrap their defense of it in, well, if we let other companies plug into our thing, then that would violate people's privacy and security. It's like, no, just do a better job designing the protocol. We basically asked them for the Ray-Ban metaglasses that we built.
And whenever you push on this, they get super touchy and they basically wrap their defense of it in, well, if we let other companies plug into our thing, then that would violate people's privacy and security. It's like, no, just do a better job designing the protocol. We basically asked them for the Ray-Ban metaglasses that we built.
And whenever you push on this, they get super touchy and they basically wrap their defense of it in, well, if we let other companies plug into our thing, then that would violate people's privacy and security. It's like, no, just do a better job designing the protocol. We basically asked them for the Ray-Ban metaglasses that we built.
Can we basically use the protocol that you use for AirPod and some of these other things to just make it so we can as easily connect? So it's not like, you know, a pain in the ass for people who want to use this and I think one of the protocols they've used that they built, they basically didn't encrypt it. So it's like plain text.
Can we basically use the protocol that you use for AirPod and some of these other things to just make it so we can as easily connect? So it's not like, you know, a pain in the ass for people who want to use this and I think one of the protocols they've used that they built, they basically didn't encrypt it. So it's like plain text.
Can we basically use the protocol that you use for AirPod and some of these other things to just make it so we can as easily connect? So it's not like, you know, a pain in the ass for people who want to use this and I think one of the protocols they've used that they built, they basically didn't encrypt it. So it's like plain text.
And they're like, well, we can't have you plug into it because it would be insecure. It's like it's insecure because you didn't build any security into it. And then now you're using that as a justification for why only your product can connect in an easy way. It's like the whole thing is kind of wild.
And they're like, well, we can't have you plug into it because it would be insecure. It's like it's insecure because you didn't build any security into it. And then now you're using that as a justification for why only your product can connect in an easy way. It's like the whole thing is kind of wild.
And they're like, well, we can't have you plug into it because it would be insecure. It's like it's insecure because you didn't build any security into it. And then now you're using that as a justification for why only your product can connect in an easy way. It's like the whole thing is kind of wild.
Um, and I'm pretty optimistic that just because they've been so off their game in terms of not really releasing many innovative things that eventually, I mean, the good news about the tech industry is it's like, it's just super dynamic and things are constantly getting invented. And I think companies, if you just don't do a good job for like 10 years, eventually you're I don't know.
Um, and I'm pretty optimistic that just because they've been so off their game in terms of not really releasing many innovative things that eventually, I mean, the good news about the tech industry is it's like, it's just super dynamic and things are constantly getting invented. And I think companies, if you just don't do a good job for like 10 years, eventually you're I don't know.
Um, and I'm pretty optimistic that just because they've been so off their game in terms of not really releasing many innovative things that eventually, I mean, the good news about the tech industry is it's like, it's just super dynamic and things are constantly getting invented. And I think companies, if you just don't do a good job for like 10 years, eventually you're I don't know.
I mean, at some point I did this like back of the envelope calculation of like all the random rules that Apple puts out. If, you know, if they didn't apply, like I think, you know, it's like, and this is just meta, I think we like make twice as much profit or something. And that's just us.
I mean, at some point I did this like back of the envelope calculation of like all the random rules that Apple puts out. If, you know, if they didn't apply, like I think, you know, it's like, and this is just meta, I think we like make twice as much profit or something. And that's just us.
I mean, at some point I did this like back of the envelope calculation of like all the random rules that Apple puts out. If, you know, if they didn't apply, like I think, you know, it's like, and this is just meta, I think we like make twice as much profit or something. And that's just us.
I mean, it's like all these small companies that probably can't even exist because of the taxes that they put in place. So, yeah, I think it's a big issue. I wish that they would just kind of get back to building good things and not having their ability to compete anymore.
I mean, it's like all these small companies that probably can't even exist because of the taxes that they put in place. So, yeah, I think it's a big issue. I wish that they would just kind of get back to building good things and not having their ability to compete anymore.
I mean, it's like all these small companies that probably can't even exist because of the taxes that they put in place. So, yeah, I think it's a big issue. I wish that they would just kind of get back to building good things and not having their ability to compete anymore.
be connected to just like advantaging their stuff because i'm pretty sure what they're going to do is like they're going to take something like this ray-ban meta you know category that we've kind of created with ray-ban and the company that built that there's like the really great ai glasses and i'm pretty sure apple's just going to like try to build a version of that but then just like advantage how it connects to the phone and
be connected to just like advantaging their stuff because i'm pretty sure what they're going to do is like they're going to take something like this ray-ban meta you know category that we've kind of created with ray-ban and the company that built that there's like the really great ai glasses and i'm pretty sure apple's just going to like try to build a version of that but then just like advantage how it connects to the phone and
be connected to just like advantaging their stuff because i'm pretty sure what they're going to do is like they're going to take something like this ray-ban meta you know category that we've kind of created with ray-ban and the company that built that there's like the really great ai glasses and i'm pretty sure apple's just going to like try to build a version of that but then just like advantage how it connects to the phone and
No, that one they didn't actually connect into the rest of their ecosystem. But, I mean, look, I mean, they shipped something for $3,500 that I think is worse than the thing that we shipped for $300 or $400. So, I mean, that clearly was not going to work very well. Now, I mean, look, I mean, they're a good technology company. I think they're –
No, that one they didn't actually connect into the rest of their ecosystem. But, I mean, look, I mean, they shipped something for $3,500 that I think is worse than the thing that we shipped for $300 or $400. So, I mean, that clearly was not going to work very well. Now, I mean, look, I mean, they're a good technology company. I think they're –
No, that one they didn't actually connect into the rest of their ecosystem. But, I mean, look, I mean, they shipped something for $3,500 that I think is worse than the thing that we shipped for $300 or $400. So, I mean, that clearly was not going to work very well. Now, I mean, look, I mean, they're a good technology company. I think they're –
Their second and third version will probably be better than their first version. But, yeah, no, I think the Vision Pro is, I think, one of the bigger swings at doing a new thing that they tried in a while. And, you know, I don't want to give them too hard of a time on it because we do a lot of things where the first version isn't that good. You want to kind of judge the third version of it.
Their second and third version will probably be better than their first version. But, yeah, no, I think the Vision Pro is, I think, one of the bigger swings at doing a new thing that they tried in a while. And, you know, I don't want to give them too hard of a time on it because we do a lot of things where the first version isn't that good. You want to kind of judge the third version of it.
Their second and third version will probably be better than their first version. But, yeah, no, I think the Vision Pro is, I think, one of the bigger swings at doing a new thing that they tried in a while. And, you know, I don't want to give them too hard of a time on it because we do a lot of things where the first version isn't that good. You want to kind of judge the third version of it.
But, I mean, the V1, it definitely did not hit it out of the park. I heard it's really good for watching movies. Well, the whole thing is it's got a super sharp screen.
But, I mean, the V1, it definitely did not hit it out of the park. I heard it's really good for watching movies. Well, the whole thing is it's got a super sharp screen.
But, I mean, the V1, it definitely did not hit it out of the park. I heard it's really good for watching movies. Well, the whole thing is it's got a super sharp screen.
So if you want to basically have an experience where you're not moving around much in VR, you just want to have the sharpest screen, then for that one use case, I think the Vision Pro is better than Quest, which is our mixed reality headset. But in order to get to that, they had to make all these other trade-offs, right?
So if you want to basically have an experience where you're not moving around much in VR, you just want to have the sharpest screen, then for that one use case, I think the Vision Pro is better than Quest, which is our mixed reality headset. But in order to get to that, they had to make all these other trade-offs, right?
So if you want to basically have an experience where you're not moving around much in VR, you just want to have the sharpest screen, then for that one use case, I think the Vision Pro is better than Quest, which is our mixed reality headset. But in order to get to that, they had to make all these other trade-offs, right?
In order to have a super high resolution screen, they had to put in all this more compute in order to power the high-res screen. And then all that compute needed a bigger battery. So now the thing is really heavy. So now it's uncomfortable to wear. And then because of the screen that they chose,
In order to have a super high resolution screen, they had to put in all this more compute in order to power the high-res screen. And then all that compute needed a bigger battery. So now the thing is really heavy. So now it's uncomfortable to wear. And then because of the screen that they chose,
In order to have a super high resolution screen, they had to put in all this more compute in order to power the high-res screen. And then all that compute needed a bigger battery. So now the thing is really heavy. So now it's uncomfortable to wear. And then because of the screen that they chose,
As you move your head, which you would if you're actually interacting, if you're playing games, the kind of image blurs a bit. And that's kind of annoying. So it's actually worse for things where you're moving around in. But no, if you're going to sit, if you're on a flight and you want to have a $3,500 device that you use to watch videos, Vision Pro is better for that use case.
As you move your head, which you would if you're actually interacting, if you're playing games, the kind of image blurs a bit. And that's kind of annoying. So it's actually worse for things where you're moving around in. But no, if you're going to sit, if you're on a flight and you want to have a $3,500 device that you use to watch videos, Vision Pro is better for that use case.
As you move your head, which you would if you're actually interacting, if you're playing games, the kind of image blurs a bit. And that's kind of annoying. So it's actually worse for things where you're moving around in. But no, if you're going to sit, if you're on a flight and you want to have a $3,500 device that you use to watch videos, Vision Pro is better for that use case.
Yeah. I mean, the whole thing that they've done with iMessage where they basically they do this whole blue bubble, green bubble thing. And it basically I mean, like for kids, it's just sort of like they embarrass you.
Yeah. I mean, the whole thing that they've done with iMessage where they basically they do this whole blue bubble, green bubble thing. And it basically I mean, like for kids, it's just sort of like they embarrass you.
Yeah. I mean, the whole thing that they've done with iMessage where they basically they do this whole blue bubble, green bubble thing. And it basically I mean, like for kids, it's just sort of like they embarrass you.
They're like, if you don't have a blue bubble, you're not cool. And you're like the out crowd. And then they always wrap it in like security. It's like, oh, well, we do this blue bubble because of security. Meanwhile, Google and others had this whole protocol to be able to do encrypted text messages that finally I think Apple was forced to implement. RCS.
They're like, if you don't have a blue bubble, you're not cool. And you're like the out crowd. And then they always wrap it in like security. It's like, oh, well, we do this blue bubble because of security. Meanwhile, Google and others had this whole protocol to be able to do encrypted text messages that finally I think Apple was forced to implement. RCS.
They're like, if you don't have a blue bubble, you're not cool. And you're like the out crowd. And then they always wrap it in like security. It's like, oh, well, we do this blue bubble because of security. Meanwhile, Google and others had this whole protocol to be able to do encrypted text messages that finally I think Apple was forced to implement. RCS.
I think it was the Chinese government that basically ended up forcing them to do it or some other government.
I think it was the Chinese government that basically ended up forcing them to do it or some other government.
I think it was the Chinese government that basically ended up forcing them to do it or some other government.
Yeah, no, I mean, group chats when you have a bunch of people on iMessage and then one person is an Android are terrible. I mean, we get a ton of people.
Yeah, no, I mean, group chats when you have a bunch of people on iMessage and then one person is an Android are terrible. I mean, we get a ton of people.
Yeah, no, I mean, group chats when you have a bunch of people on iMessage and then one person is an Android are terrible. I mean, we get a ton of people.
Well, I use WhatsApp. I use WhatsApp. You only use that. I only communicate with a few people over SMS. But basically... I mean, I build a lot of leading messaging services, so I've got to use ours. Most people, I'm either WhatsApp or Instagram Direct or Messenger. But, yeah. So I think it's maybe people are less likely to get mad at me for asking them to use WhatsApp because we make WhatsApp.
Well, I use WhatsApp. I use WhatsApp. You only use that. I only communicate with a few people over SMS. But basically... I mean, I build a lot of leading messaging services, so I've got to use ours. Most people, I'm either WhatsApp or Instagram Direct or Messenger. But, yeah. So I think it's maybe people are less likely to get mad at me for asking them to use WhatsApp because we make WhatsApp.
Well, I use WhatsApp. I use WhatsApp. You only use that. I only communicate with a few people over SMS. But basically... I mean, I build a lot of leading messaging services, so I've got to use ours. Most people, I'm either WhatsApp or Instagram Direct or Messenger. But, yeah. So I think it's maybe people are less likely to get mad at me for asking them to use WhatsApp because we make WhatsApp.
Well, there are multiple vulnerabilities in all this stuff. It's unclear. I doubt that what they did was they broke signal. Because that encryption, I think, is pretty good, as is WhatsApp. I mean, it's basically Signal and WhatsApp use the same encryption. It's an open source. NSA. NSA. Okay. But someone could break into your phone and see everything that's on your phone.
Well, there are multiple vulnerabilities in all this stuff. It's unclear. I doubt that what they did was they broke signal. Because that encryption, I think, is pretty good, as is WhatsApp. I mean, it's basically Signal and WhatsApp use the same encryption. It's an open source. NSA. NSA. Okay. But someone could break into your phone and see everything that's on your phone.
Well, there are multiple vulnerabilities in all this stuff. It's unclear. I doubt that what they did was they broke signal. Because that encryption, I think, is pretty good, as is WhatsApp. I mean, it's basically Signal and WhatsApp use the same encryption. It's an open source. NSA. NSA. Okay. But someone could break into your phone and see everything that's on your phone.
The thing that encryption does that's really good is it makes it so that the company that's running the service doesn't see it. So if you're using WhatsApp, basically, when I text you on WhatsApp, there's no point at which the meta servers see the contents of that message. Unless we took a photo of it or shared that back to meta in some other way.
The thing that encryption does that's really good is it makes it so that the company that's running the service doesn't see it. So if you're using WhatsApp, basically, when I text you on WhatsApp, there's no point at which the meta servers see the contents of that message. Unless we took a photo of it or shared that back to meta in some other way.
The thing that encryption does that's really good is it makes it so that the company that's running the service doesn't see it. So if you're using WhatsApp, basically, when I text you on WhatsApp, there's no point at which the meta servers see the contents of that message. Unless we took a photo of it or shared that back to meta in some other way.
That basically, it cuts out the company completely from it, which is, I think, really important for a bunch of reasons. One is people might not trust the company, but also just security issues. Let's say someone... hacks into meta, which, you know, we try really hard to make it so they can't. And we haven't had many issues with that over the 20 years of running the company.
That basically, it cuts out the company completely from it, which is, I think, really important for a bunch of reasons. One is people might not trust the company, but also just security issues. Let's say someone... hacks into meta, which, you know, we try really hard to make it so they can't. And we haven't had many issues with that over the 20 years of running the company.
That basically, it cuts out the company completely from it, which is, I think, really important for a bunch of reasons. One is people might not trust the company, but also just security issues. Let's say someone... hacks into meta, which, you know, we try really hard to make it so they can't. And we haven't had many issues with that over the 20 years of running the company.
But in theory, if someone did, then they'd be able to access everyone's messages if it weren't encrypted. But because it's encrypted, there's just nothing there, right? It's like, I mean, they can't hack into meta and then get access to your messages. So now someone like the NSA or CIA would have to kind of hack into your phone, which, you know, there are probably ways to do that. Pegasus.
But in theory, if someone did, then they'd be able to access everyone's messages if it weren't encrypted. But because it's encrypted, there's just nothing there, right? It's like, I mean, they can't hack into meta and then get access to your messages. So now someone like the NSA or CIA would have to kind of hack into your phone, which, you know, there are probably ways to do that. Pegasus.
But in theory, if someone did, then they'd be able to access everyone's messages if it weren't encrypted. But because it's encrypted, there's just nothing there, right? It's like, I mean, they can't hack into meta and then get access to your messages. So now someone like the NSA or CIA would have to kind of hack into your phone, which, you know, there are probably ways to do that. Pegasus.
I mean, there are probably a bunch of ways.
I mean, there are probably a bunch of ways.
I mean, there are probably a bunch of ways.
And then, of course, there's always the ultimate kind of physical part of it, which is if you have access to the computer, you can usually just break in. Right. So that's why. If the FBI arrests you and takes your phone, they're probably going to be able to get in and see what's there.
And then, of course, there's always the ultimate kind of physical part of it, which is if you have access to the computer, you can usually just break in. Right. So that's why. If the FBI arrests you and takes your phone, they're probably going to be able to get in and see what's there.
And then, of course, there's always the ultimate kind of physical part of it, which is if you have access to the computer, you can usually just break in. Right. So that's why. If the FBI arrests you and takes your phone, they're probably going to be able to get in and see what's there.
Yeah, and I mean this is one of the reasons why we put disappearing messages in too because that way – I mean, yeah, if someone has compromised your phone and they can see everything that's going on there, then obviously they can see stuff as it comes in. But I kind of in general just think we should keep around as little of that stuff as possible.
Yeah, and I mean this is one of the reasons why we put disappearing messages in too because that way – I mean, yeah, if someone has compromised your phone and they can see everything that's going on there, then obviously they can see stuff as it comes in. But I kind of in general just think we should keep around as little of that stuff as possible.
Yeah, and I mean this is one of the reasons why we put disappearing messages in too because that way – I mean, yeah, if someone has compromised your phone and they can see everything that's going on there, then obviously they can see stuff as it comes in. But I kind of in general just think we should keep around as little of that stuff as possible.
So there are some threads where it's like there's photos that get shared. You want the photos. But I think for a lot of threads, a lot of people just – I don't think most people would miss it if most of the contents of their threads just disappeared after seven days.
So there are some threads where it's like there's photos that get shared. You want the photos. But I think for a lot of threads, a lot of people just – I don't think most people would miss it if most of the contents of their threads just disappeared after seven days.
So there are some threads where it's like there's photos that get shared. You want the photos. But I think for a lot of threads, a lot of people just – I don't think most people would miss it if most of the contents of their threads just disappeared after seven days.
What I find is I don't use it that much because we have this corporate policy at Meta that we need to retain all our documents and messages and stuff. But before we had that, I used it as we were developing this and every once in a while I would miss something and say, wow, I kind of wish I could go back and see that. But it was very rare.
What I find is I don't use it that much because we have this corporate policy at Meta that we need to retain all our documents and messages and stuff. But before we had that, I used it as we were developing this and every once in a while I would miss something and say, wow, I kind of wish I could go back and see that. But it was very rare.
What I find is I don't use it that much because we have this corporate policy at Meta that we need to retain all our documents and messages and stuff. But before we had that, I used it as we were developing this and every once in a while I would miss something and say, wow, I kind of wish I could go back and see that. But it was very rare.
I think most communication, it's kind of like you just have the communication and then you're done. So having it be encrypted and disappearing, I think is a pretty good kind of standard of security and privacy.
I think most communication, it's kind of like you just have the communication and then you're done. So having it be encrypted and disappearing, I think is a pretty good kind of standard of security and privacy.
I think most communication, it's kind of like you just have the communication and then you're done. So having it be encrypted and disappearing, I think is a pretty good kind of standard of security and privacy.
You can do seven days. And you can also set it across all your threads. You can have a default timer so that way as new threads get created, your default timer just becomes the default for all those threads. So I think that it's a really good feature. I mean, I basically think WhatsApp and Signal are probably the two most secure that are out there. um, on that.
You can do seven days. And you can also set it across all your threads. You can have a default timer so that way as new threads get created, your default timer just becomes the default for all those threads. So I think that it's a really good feature. I mean, I basically think WhatsApp and Signal are probably the two most secure that are out there. um, on that.
You can do seven days. And you can also set it across all your threads. You can have a default timer so that way as new threads get created, your default timer just becomes the default for all those threads. So I think that it's a really good feature. I mean, I basically think WhatsApp and Signal are probably the two most secure that are out there. um, on that.
And of those two, I think WhatsApp is just used by a lot more people. So I think it's, it's generally, you know, I mean, I would say this because it's, it's, it's our product, but I do think it's, it's the better product, but, but I think WhatsApp and Signal are basically, you know, the two most secure ones.
And of those two, I think WhatsApp is just used by a lot more people. So I think it's, it's generally, you know, I mean, I would say this because it's, it's, it's our product, but I do think it's, it's the better product, but, but I think WhatsApp and Signal are basically, you know, the two most secure ones.
And of those two, I think WhatsApp is just used by a lot more people. So I think it's, it's generally, you know, I mean, I would say this because it's, it's, it's our product, but I do think it's, it's the better product, but, but I think WhatsApp and Signal are basically, you know, the two most secure ones.
Oh man. Um, that was kind of a crazy one, right? Yeah. I mean,
Oh man. Um, that was kind of a crazy one, right? Yeah. I mean,
Oh man. Um, that was kind of a crazy one, right? Yeah. I mean,
it's always a little difficult to weigh in on these situations without knowing all the specifics, but one of the government tactics that I've seen that I think is pretty, is not great is an increasing number of governments when they like have an issue with something that a company is doing, basically just like threatened to throw the executives of that company in prison. And it's like,
it's always a little difficult to weigh in on these situations without knowing all the specifics, but one of the government tactics that I've seen that I think is pretty, is not great is an increasing number of governments when they like have an issue with something that a company is doing, basically just like threatened to throw the executives of that company in prison. And it's like,
it's always a little difficult to weigh in on these situations without knowing all the specifics, but one of the government tactics that I've seen that I think is pretty, is not great is an increasing number of governments when they like have an issue with something that a company is doing, basically just like threatened to throw the executives of that company in prison. And it's like,
I think that that's just a really weird precedent to set, right? It's like, it's if, if the, you have all the, so it's like, we're operating in all these different countries and then like, you have all these governments that are basically like, if you, I don't know, we're going to like put out an Interpol notice to like get you arrested because you're not doing the thing that we want.
I think that that's just a really weird precedent to set, right? It's like, it's if, if the, you have all the, so it's like, we're operating in all these different countries and then like, you have all these governments that are basically like, if you, I don't know, we're going to like put out an Interpol notice to like get you arrested because you're not doing the thing that we want.
I think that that's just a really weird precedent to set, right? It's like, it's if, if the, you have all the, so it's like, we're operating in all these different countries and then like, you have all these governments that are basically like, if you, I don't know, we're going to like put out an Interpol notice to like get you arrested because you're not doing the thing that we want.
It's like, I don't know. I don't, I think that's like not great. I think you want the, I mean, obviously you don't want people to just be like flagrantly violating the laws, but like there are laws in different countries that we disagree with.
It's like, I don't know. I don't, I think that's like not great. I think you want the, I mean, obviously you don't want people to just be like flagrantly violating the laws, but like there are laws in different countries that we disagree with.
It's like, I don't know. I don't, I think that's like not great. I think you want the, I mean, obviously you don't want people to just be like flagrantly violating the laws, but like there are laws in different countries that we disagree with.
So for example, there was a point at which I think I was, someone was trying to get me sentenced to death in Pakistan because they thought that, Oh, cause someone on Facebook had a picture of where they had the drawing of the prophet Muhammad. And someone said that that's blasphemy in our culture. And they brought a, they basically like sued me and they opened this criminal proceeding and
So for example, there was a point at which I think I was, someone was trying to get me sentenced to death in Pakistan because they thought that, Oh, cause someone on Facebook had a picture of where they had the drawing of the prophet Muhammad. And someone said that that's blasphemy in our culture. And they brought a, they basically like sued me and they opened this criminal proceeding and
So for example, there was a point at which I think I was, someone was trying to get me sentenced to death in Pakistan because they thought that, Oh, cause someone on Facebook had a picture of where they had the drawing of the prophet Muhammad. And someone said that that's blasphemy in our culture. And they brought a, they basically like sued me and they opened this criminal proceeding and
and I don't know exactly where it went because I'm just not planning on going to Pakistan. So I was not that worried about it, but, but like, but, but it was a little bit disconcerting. It was like, all right, fine. Like these guys are like trying to like, like kill you. Okay. It's not great. Right. You know, it's like not, yeah.
and I don't know exactly where it went because I'm just not planning on going to Pakistan. So I was not that worried about it, but, but like, but, but it was a little bit disconcerting. It was like, all right, fine. Like these guys are like trying to like, like kill you. Okay. It's not great. Right. You know, it's like not, yeah.
and I don't know exactly where it went because I'm just not planning on going to Pakistan. So I was not that worried about it, but, but like, but, but it was a little bit disconcerting. It was like, all right, fine. Like these guys are like trying to like, like kill you. Okay. It's not great. Right. You know, it's like not, yeah.
I mean, it's, I feel like I, yeah, it's like flying over that region. You don't want your plane to like go down above Pakistan if that thing goes through. But, but that one was sort of avoidable. But the point is like, Right. to have those governments be able to exert the power of saying, okay, we're going to throw you in prison, that's a lot of force.
I mean, it's, I feel like I, yeah, it's like flying over that region. You don't want your plane to like go down above Pakistan if that thing goes through. But, but that one was sort of avoidable. But the point is like, Right. to have those governments be able to exert the power of saying, okay, we're going to throw you in prison, that's a lot of force.
I mean, it's, I feel like I, yeah, it's like flying over that region. You don't want your plane to like go down above Pakistan if that thing goes through. But, but that one was sort of avoidable. But the point is like, Right. to have those governments be able to exert the power of saying, okay, we're going to throw you in prison, that's a lot of force.
So I think it's generally, yeah, I think that this is one of the things that the U.S. government is probably going to need to help defend the American tech companies for abroad. But I can't weigh in that much on the Durov specific thing because I don't know what was going on there.
So I think it's generally, yeah, I think that this is one of the things that the U.S. government is probably going to need to help defend the American tech companies for abroad. But I can't weigh in that much on the Durov specific thing because I don't know what was going on there.
So I think it's generally, yeah, I think that this is one of the things that the U.S. government is probably going to need to help defend the American tech companies for abroad. But I can't weigh in that much on the Durov specific thing because I don't know what was going on there.
Yeah. So, I mean, that's basically the journey that I've been on. Right. Started off very pro free speech, free expression. And then over the last 10 years, there have been these two big episodes. It was the Trump election and the aftermath where I feel like in retrospect, I deferred too much to the kind of critique of the media on what we should do.
Yeah. So, I mean, that's basically the journey that I've been on. Right. Started off very pro free speech, free expression. And then over the last 10 years, there have been these two big episodes. It was the Trump election and the aftermath where I feel like in retrospect, I deferred too much to the kind of critique of the media on what we should do.
Yeah. So, I mean, that's basically the journey that I've been on. Right. Started off very pro free speech, free expression. And then over the last 10 years, there have been these two big episodes. It was the Trump election and the aftermath where I feel like in retrospect, I deferred too much to the kind of critique of the media on what we should do.
We are building a platform for creating AIs that can help you get things done or just have fun.
We are building a platform for creating AIs that can help you get things done or just have fun.
We are building a platform for creating AIs that can help you get things done or just have fun.
Of course, you'll be able to chat with them in WhatsApp and Messenger and Instagram Direct. But beyond that, they're going to have profiles in Instagram and Facebook, and you'll be able to interact with them. And eventually, they're going to be embodied as avatars and live and be able to interact with them in the metaverse too.
Of course, you'll be able to chat with them in WhatsApp and Messenger and Instagram Direct. But beyond that, they're going to have profiles in Instagram and Facebook, and you'll be able to interact with them. And eventually, they're going to be embodied as avatars and live and be able to interact with them in the metaverse too.
Of course, you'll be able to chat with them in WhatsApp and Messenger and Instagram Direct. But beyond that, they're going to have profiles in Instagram and Facebook, and you'll be able to interact with them. And eventually, they're going to be embodied as avatars and live and be able to interact with them in the metaverse too.
So this is our first effort at training a bunch of AIs that are a bit more fun.
So this is our first effort at training a bunch of AIs that are a bit more fun.
So this is our first effort at training a bunch of AIs that are a bit more fun.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram.
The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
We built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship.
We built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship.
We built a lot of complex systems to moderate content. But the problem with complex systems is they make mistakes. Even if they accidentally censor just 1% of posts, that's millions of people. And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship.
We're going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse. What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas, and it's gone too far.
We're going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse. What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas, and it's gone too far.
We're going to simplify our content policies and get rid of a bunch of restrictions on topics like immigration and gender that are just out of touch with mainstream discourse. What started as a movement to be more inclusive has increasingly been used to shut down opinions and shut out people with different ideas, and it's gone too far.
The bottom line is that after years of having our content moderation work focus primarily on removing content, it is time to focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our systems, and getting back to our roots about giving people voice.
The bottom line is that after years of having our content moderation work focus primarily on removing content, it is time to focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our systems, and getting back to our roots about giving people voice.
The bottom line is that after years of having our content moderation work focus primarily on removing content, it is time to focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our systems, and getting back to our roots about giving people voice.
Okay, give me a second as I go into my pocket. I have a quarter and a dime and two pennies.
Okay, give me a second as I go into my pocket. I have a quarter and a dime and two pennies.
Okay, give me a second as I go into my pocket. I have a quarter and a dime and two pennies.
My name is Mark Weller. I'm executive director of Americans for Common Sense.
My name is Mark Weller. I'm executive director of Americans for Common Sense.
My name is Mark Weller. I'm executive director of Americans for Common Sense.
Exactly. Americans for Common Sense is spelled C-E-N-T-S.
Exactly. Americans for Common Sense is spelled C-E-N-T-S.
Exactly. Americans for Common Sense is spelled C-E-N-T-S.
We have a lot of support from coin collectors and many of those started collecting pennies when they were younger. There's certainly a nostalgia people remember when they were younger of saving pennies and other coins and making a purchase through the saving and what that symbolizes for thrift and the ability of being patient.
We have a lot of support from coin collectors and many of those started collecting pennies when they were younger. There's certainly a nostalgia people remember when they were younger of saving pennies and other coins and making a purchase through the saving and what that symbolizes for thrift and the ability of being patient.
We have a lot of support from coin collectors and many of those started collecting pennies when they were younger. There's certainly a nostalgia people remember when they were younger of saving pennies and other coins and making a purchase through the saving and what that symbolizes for thrift and the ability of being patient.
So I think those all play into the nostalgia and the support for the penny. But ultimately, this is really an economic issue.
So I think those all play into the nostalgia and the support for the penny. But ultimately, this is really an economic issue.
So I think those all play into the nostalgia and the support for the penny. But ultimately, this is really an economic issue.
If we can agree on one thing, it's that businesses have an incentive to maximize profits. There's no incentive to round down. They're going to round up in most instances unless there is legislation that directs a rounding scheme on how that should work. But many grocery stores, many convenience stores work on very small margins, and those pennies really do add up, and it makes a difference.
If we can agree on one thing, it's that businesses have an incentive to maximize profits. There's no incentive to round down. They're going to round up in most instances unless there is legislation that directs a rounding scheme on how that should work. But many grocery stores, many convenience stores work on very small margins, and those pennies really do add up, and it makes a difference.
If we can agree on one thing, it's that businesses have an incentive to maximize profits. There's no incentive to round down. They're going to round up in most instances unless there is legislation that directs a rounding scheme on how that should work. But many grocery stores, many convenience stores work on very small margins, and those pennies really do add up, and it makes a difference.
So the rounding is a big, big problem, and consumers lose in that scenario. Yeah.
So the rounding is a big, big problem, and consumers lose in that scenario. Yeah.
So the rounding is a big, big problem, and consumers lose in that scenario. Yeah.
nickel now cost 14 cents so we're going to be losing nine cents on every nickel that we make and we've seen from other countries that have done away with their low denomination coins more recently with australia with switzerland that their their next denomination coin their nickel uh production went up so you're not actually going to save money
nickel now cost 14 cents so we're going to be losing nine cents on every nickel that we make and we've seen from other countries that have done away with their low denomination coins more recently with australia with switzerland that their their next denomination coin their nickel uh production went up so you're not actually going to save money
nickel now cost 14 cents so we're going to be losing nine cents on every nickel that we make and we've seen from other countries that have done away with their low denomination coins more recently with australia with switzerland that their their next denomination coin their nickel uh production went up so you're not actually going to save money
Well, I would hope that wouldn't be the next step. Really, I think there's a concern about rounding to the nickel. I would submit that some have said, let's do away with the penny and the nickel. But if you start... Talking about rounding to a dime, I think you're going to have some significant economic effects and inflation.
Well, I would hope that wouldn't be the next step. Really, I think there's a concern about rounding to the nickel. I would submit that some have said, let's do away with the penny and the nickel. But if you start... Talking about rounding to a dime, I think you're going to have some significant economic effects and inflation.
Well, I would hope that wouldn't be the next step. Really, I think there's a concern about rounding to the nickel. I would submit that some have said, let's do away with the penny and the nickel. But if you start... Talking about rounding to a dime, I think you're going to have some significant economic effects and inflation.
If you have a transaction, you know, of 15 cents and you don't have a nickel and you don't have a penny, it kind of gets you into a slippery slope of rounding to just very, very high numbers.
If you have a transaction, you know, of 15 cents and you don't have a nickel and you don't have a penny, it kind of gets you into a slippery slope of rounding to just very, very high numbers.
If you have a transaction, you know, of 15 cents and you don't have a nickel and you don't have a penny, it kind of gets you into a slippery slope of rounding to just very, very high numbers.
I do think that people are going to use AI for a lot of these social tasks. Already one of the main things that we see people using that AI for is kind of talking through difficult conversations that they need to have with people Mit Leuten in ihrer Leben. Es ist wie, okay, ich habe dieses Problem mit meiner Freundin oder was auch immer. Hilf mir, diese Konversation zu haben.
I do think that people are going to use AI for a lot of these social tasks. Already one of the main things that we see people using that AI for is kind of talking through difficult conversations that they need to have with people Mit Leuten in ihrer Leben. Es ist wie, okay, ich habe dieses Problem mit meiner Freundin oder was auch immer. Hilf mir, diese Konversation zu haben.
Oder ich brauche diese schwierige Konversation mit meinem Boss am Arbeitstag. Wie kann ich diese Konversation haben? Das ist ziemlich hilfreich. Und dann, glaube ich, als der Personalisierungs-Loop kommt, und die AI einfach beginnt, dich zu kennen.
Oder ich brauche diese schwierige Konversation mit meinem Boss am Arbeitstag. Wie kann ich diese Konversation haben? Das ist ziemlich hilfreich. Und dann, glaube ich, als der Personalisierungs-Loop kommt, und die AI einfach beginnt, dich zu kennen.
Du weißt, eine Sache, einfach von der Arbeit auf sozialen Medien für eine lange Zeit, Es gibt eine Statte, die ich immer verrückt finde. Der übrige Amerikaner hat, glaube ich, weniger als drei Freunde. Drei Leute, die sie als Freunde bezeichnen. Und die übrige Person hat eine Bedrohung für mehr. Ich glaube, es sind etwa 15 Freunde oder so.
Du weißt, eine Sache, einfach von der Arbeit auf sozialen Medien für eine lange Zeit, Es gibt eine Statte, die ich immer verrückt finde. Der übrige Amerikaner hat, glaube ich, weniger als drei Freunde. Drei Leute, die sie als Freunde bezeichnen. Und die übrige Person hat eine Bedrohung für mehr. Ich glaube, es sind etwa 15 Freunde oder so.
Ich glaube, es gibt wahrscheinlich einen Punkt, an dem man sagt, okay, ich bin einfach zu beschäftigt, ich kann nicht mit mehr Leuten umgehen. Aber die übrige Person will mehr Kontakt, eine Verbindung, als sie hat.
Ich glaube, es gibt wahrscheinlich einen Punkt, an dem man sagt, okay, ich bin einfach zu beschäftigt, ich kann nicht mit mehr Leuten umgehen. Aber die übrige Person will mehr Kontakt, eine Verbindung, als sie hat.
so you know there's a lot of questions that people ask of stuff like okay is this going to replace kind of in-person connections or real life connections and my default is that the answer to that is probably no i think it it you know i think that there are all these things that are better about kind of physical connections when you can
so you know there's a lot of questions that people ask of stuff like okay is this going to replace kind of in-person connections or real life connections and my default is that the answer to that is probably no i think it it you know i think that there are all these things that are better about kind of physical connections when you can
haben sie, aber die Realität ist, dass die Leute einfach nicht die Verbindung haben und sie fühlen sich viel mehr allein, ähm, viel mehr Zeit, als sie es wünschen. Also, ich denke, dass viele dieser Dinge, dass heute vielleicht ein bisschen Stigma vorhanden ist. Ja.
haben sie, aber die Realität ist, dass die Leute einfach nicht die Verbindung haben und sie fühlen sich viel mehr allein, ähm, viel mehr Zeit, als sie es wünschen. Also, ich denke, dass viele dieser Dinge, dass heute vielleicht ein bisschen Stigma vorhanden ist. Ja.
Ich würde schätzen, dass über die Zeit... Wir finden das Vokabular als Gesellschaft, um zu artikulieren, weshalb das wertvoll ist und weshalb die Menschen, die diese Dinge tun, rational dafür sind, es zu tun haben und wie es für ihre Leben wert ist. Aber ich denke auch, dass der Bereich sehr früh ist.
Ich würde schätzen, dass über die Zeit... Wir finden das Vokabular als Gesellschaft, um zu artikulieren, weshalb das wertvoll ist und weshalb die Menschen, die diese Dinge tun, rational dafür sind, es zu tun haben und wie es für ihre Leben wert ist. Aber ich denke auch, dass der Bereich sehr früh ist.
Ich meine, ich glaube, es gibt eine Hälfte von Firmen und so, die einen virtuellen Therapeuten machen. Okay, okay. Und es gibt auch virtuale Freundschaften. Okay, okay.
Ich meine, ich glaube, es gibt eine Hälfte von Firmen und so, die einen virtuellen Therapeuten machen. Okay, okay. Und es gibt auch virtuale Freundschaften. Okay, okay.
I have some tour dates to tell you about Miami, Florida on May 10th, Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th, St. Paul, Minnesota on June 20th, Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st, Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22nd, Winnipeg and Calgary in the Canada. All tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. Please go through those links so you get accurate pricing.
I have some tour dates to tell you about Miami, Florida on May 10th, Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th, St. Paul, Minnesota on June 20th, Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st, Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22nd, Winnipeg and Calgary in the Canada. All tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. Please go through those links so you get accurate pricing.
I have some tour dates to tell you about Miami, Florida on May 10th, Cedar Rapids, Iowa on June 19th, St. Paul, Minnesota on June 20th, Fargo, North Dakota on June 21st, Rapid City, South Dakota on June 22nd, Winnipeg and Calgary in the Canada. All tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. Please go through those links so you get accurate pricing.
that makes no sense it's like i'll just let's just go let's get a car it's kind of batman it's almost as a batman but i guess it is true because then you're just by yourself out there what do you mean or will you take somebody with you in the car in the car the helicopter and the helicopter yeah i definitely have like a real professional pilot fly with me yeah yeah yeah oh that's wild though yeah but i guess a chopper would get you somewhere pretty quick right
that makes no sense it's like i'll just let's just go let's get a car it's kind of batman it's almost as a batman but i guess it is true because then you're just by yourself out there what do you mean or will you take somebody with you in the car in the car the helicopter and the helicopter yeah i definitely have like a real professional pilot fly with me yeah yeah yeah oh that's wild though yeah but i guess a chopper would get you somewhere pretty quick right
that makes no sense it's like i'll just let's just go let's get a car it's kind of batman it's almost as a batman but i guess it is true because then you're just by yourself out there what do you mean or will you take somebody with you in the car in the car the helicopter and the helicopter yeah i definitely have like a real professional pilot fly with me yeah yeah yeah oh that's wild though yeah but i guess a chopper would get you somewhere pretty quick right
Yeah, I mean, it's a good tool to have in the arsenal.
Yeah, I mean, it's a good tool to have in the arsenal.
Yeah, I mean, it's a good tool to have in the arsenal.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would have a chopper. I don't even know what I would have. I would have an underground tunnel, even though it came right back up next to where it started.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would have a chopper. I don't even know what I would have. I would have an underground tunnel, even though it came right back up next to where it started.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I would have a chopper. I don't even know what I would have. I would have an underground tunnel, even though it came right back up next to where it started.
Zucky got that bunky. What's under the ground? There's more water, right?
Zucky got that bunky. What's under the ground? There's more water, right?
Zucky got that bunky. What's under the ground? There's more water, right?
Oh, really? So you just like to keep everything, the equilibrium? Yeah.
Oh, really? So you just like to keep everything, the equilibrium? Yeah.
Oh, really? So you just like to keep everything, the equilibrium? Yeah.
It's a good place to hide a little bit of dope, though. That's what I would say, dude. Those are the good... That's what I would do anyway, but... Well, you and I defer there. Yeah. So you don't use... You've never used drugs or... I mean, I don't know.
It's a good place to hide a little bit of dope, though. That's what I would say, dude. Those are the good... That's what I would do anyway, but... Well, you and I defer there. Yeah. So you don't use... You've never used drugs or... I mean, I don't know.
It's a good place to hide a little bit of dope, though. That's what I would say, dude. Those are the good... That's what I would do anyway, but... Well, you and I defer there. Yeah. So you don't use... You've never used drugs or... I mean, I don't know.
God. Yeah, no, it's... There's kind of a... That's kind of insane really these days. It used to be kind of that somebody who was like really straight edge and sober that that was a nerdy thing, I think. But now...
God. Yeah, no, it's... There's kind of a... That's kind of insane really these days. It used to be kind of that somebody who was like really straight edge and sober that that was a nerdy thing, I think. But now...
God. Yeah, no, it's... There's kind of a... That's kind of insane really these days. It used to be kind of that somebody who was like really straight edge and sober that that was a nerdy thing, I think. But now...
i never even thought about it for now that's almost the most insane thing you can do it's like wait you're under the influence of nothing nothing nothing from sun up to sundown you're a fucking animal you know it's kind of crazy that it's that that things have gone that's that uh that that the perspective of that has kind of changed how big is that tunnel is your tunnel pretty big or what's it like
i never even thought about it for now that's almost the most insane thing you can do it's like wait you're under the influence of nothing nothing nothing from sun up to sundown you're a fucking animal you know it's kind of crazy that it's that that things have gone that's that uh that that the perspective of that has kind of changed how big is that tunnel is your tunnel pretty big or what's it like
i never even thought about it for now that's almost the most insane thing you can do it's like wait you're under the influence of nothing nothing nothing from sun up to sundown you're a fucking animal you know it's kind of crazy that it's that that things have gone that's that uh that that the perspective of that has kind of changed how big is that tunnel is your tunnel pretty big or what's it like
Yes, definitely. But this is a crazy area. I haven't spent a lot of time here.
Yes, definitely. But this is a crazy area. I haven't spent a lot of time here.
Yes, definitely. But this is a crazy area. I haven't spent a lot of time here.
It's kind of true. Like, so you, but have you, you've had it before? Yeah. But you just don't like it? Yeah, I don't. So when you get up in the morning, that's not your thing? Like, is there something you do?
It's kind of true. Like, so you, but have you, you've had it before? Yeah. But you just don't like it? Yeah, I don't. So when you get up in the morning, that's not your thing? Like, is there something you do?
It's kind of true. Like, so you, but have you, you've had it before? Yeah. But you just don't like it? Yeah, I don't. So when you get up in the morning, that's not your thing? Like, is there something you do?
That's the thing right there?
That's the thing right there?
That's the thing right there?
Dude, the future's, things are definitely getting weird with cars. Dude, I saw four Waymos meeting up behind the Ikea over here.
Dude, the future's, things are definitely getting weird with cars. Dude, I saw four Waymos meeting up behind the Ikea over here.
Dude, the future's, things are definitely getting weird with cars. Dude, I saw four Waymos meeting up behind the Ikea over here.
Yeah, that's what it seemed like. I don't know if they were smoking a blunt or whatever, but there was four Waymos all meeting. Yeah, I don't know. They were meeting up. I'm like, who are they? What are they doing? And then my buddy said he was in one, and it was crying. The Waymo was crying? Yeah, the Waymo was complaining about his spouse or whatever. What form does that take? I don't know.
Yeah, that's what it seemed like. I don't know if they were smoking a blunt or whatever, but there was four Waymos all meeting. Yeah, I don't know. They were meeting up. I'm like, who are they? What are they doing? And then my buddy said he was in one, and it was crying. The Waymo was crying? Yeah, the Waymo was complaining about his spouse or whatever. What form does that take? I don't know.
Yeah, that's what it seemed like. I don't know if they were smoking a blunt or whatever, but there was four Waymos all meeting. Yeah, I don't know. They were meeting up. I'm like, who are they? What are they doing? And then my buddy said he was in one, and it was crying. The Waymo was crying? Yeah, the Waymo was complaining about his spouse or whatever. What form does that take? I don't know.
No, I think he had said it on a British setting. So it was like, oh, me missus is really getting at me, no? So I think because you can change the voice to like Indian guy or British guy or whatever, or like, or female or semi-female or whatever. Semi-female. But like, yeah, I just think it was like... Yeah, just some of that Waymo stuff's just getting out of line.
No, I think he had said it on a British setting. So it was like, oh, me missus is really getting at me, no? So I think because you can change the voice to like Indian guy or British guy or whatever, or like, or female or semi-female or whatever. Semi-female. But like, yeah, I just think it was like... Yeah, just some of that Waymo stuff's just getting out of line.
No, I think he had said it on a British setting. So it was like, oh, me missus is really getting at me, no? So I think because you can change the voice to like Indian guy or British guy or whatever, or like, or female or semi-female or whatever. Semi-female. But like, yeah, I just think it was like... Yeah, just some of that Waymo stuff's just getting out of line.
I never thought like, oh, what are these cars doing until I saw four of them meeting up? And I was like, this seems like a lot to me. You know? That's where the future starts to get a little bit scary is moments like that where you're like, well, what are they doing?
I never thought like, oh, what are these cars doing until I saw four of them meeting up? And I was like, this seems like a lot to me. You know? That's where the future starts to get a little bit scary is moments like that where you're like, well, what are they doing?
I never thought like, oh, what are these cars doing until I saw four of them meeting up? And I was like, this seems like a lot to me. You know? That's where the future starts to get a little bit scary is moments like that where you're like, well, what are they doing?
But they'd have to do it in a group behind an Ikea? Yeah, I don't know.
But they'd have to do it in a group behind an Ikea? Yeah, I don't know.
But they'd have to do it in a group behind an Ikea? Yeah, I don't know.
That's true. I'm not going to defend them. Okay, okay, okay. It just seemed like an interesting place to meet up, you know? Yeah, and then I was in one way mode, and it was like, do you want to gamble? What? I think it was sponsored by DraftKings or something, and it was like, do you want to gamble with me? Yeah. I was like, it's like, I bet you $40. You'll never get where you're going.
That's true. I'm not going to defend them. Okay, okay, okay. It just seemed like an interesting place to meet up, you know? Yeah, and then I was in one way mode, and it was like, do you want to gamble? What? I think it was sponsored by DraftKings or something, and it was like, do you want to gamble with me? Yeah. I was like, it's like, I bet you $40. You'll never get where you're going.
That's true. I'm not going to defend them. Okay, okay, okay. It just seemed like an interesting place to meet up, you know? Yeah, and then I was in one way mode, and it was like, do you want to gamble? What? I think it was sponsored by DraftKings or something, and it was like, do you want to gamble with me? Yeah. I was like, it's like, I bet you $40. You'll never get where you're going.
And it was like, this is, this seems as the doors lock. It's like picks up speed. Yeah. And why are all the Waymos white too? I'm like, this is, I don't know. I just think we got to start to diversify the portfolio. I feel like a little, you know? Yeah. But what do I know? You, so let me switch topics. Sorry. Sometimes I get a little bit nervous. Is that all right?
And it was like, this is, this seems as the doors lock. It's like picks up speed. Yeah. And why are all the Waymos white too? I'm like, this is, I don't know. I just think we got to start to diversify the portfolio. I feel like a little, you know? Yeah. But what do I know? You, so let me switch topics. Sorry. Sometimes I get a little bit nervous. Is that all right?
And it was like, this is, this seems as the doors lock. It's like picks up speed. Yeah. And why are all the Waymos white too? I'm like, this is, I don't know. I just think we got to start to diversify the portfolio. I feel like a little, you know? Yeah. But what do I know? You, so let me switch topics. Sorry. Sometimes I get a little bit nervous. Is that all right?
Let me think about how you said that.
Let me think about how you said that.
Let me think about how you said that.
Yeah. See, I didn't even say it correctly. Really? Oh, but I think that's a trap. I think that I am. I think I'm more nervous than you. You think? Yeah, man. I wake up. I am an alarm clock. That's how I feel all the time. I feel like. What does that mean? I just feel like I'm always, you know. Yeah. Why? I don't know. I just think I've always felt like that.
Yeah. See, I didn't even say it correctly. Really? Oh, but I think that's a trap. I think that I am. I think I'm more nervous than you. You think? Yeah, man. I wake up. I am an alarm clock. That's how I feel all the time. I feel like. What does that mean? I just feel like I'm always, you know. Yeah. Why? I don't know. I just think I've always felt like that.
Yeah. See, I didn't even say it correctly. Really? Oh, but I think that's a trap. I think that I am. I think I'm more nervous than you. You think? Yeah, man. I wake up. I am an alarm clock. That's how I feel all the time. I feel like. What does that mean? I just feel like I'm always, you know. Yeah. Why? I don't know. I just think I've always felt like that.
I've always felt like kind of frenetic, you know? It's like how do I get things to calm down more than how do I get things to amp up, you know? Like I'll even wear earplugs a lot of the day now, and it makes things a lot easier for me to kind of navigate. Interesting. Yeah, it just makes everything easier to focus on.
I've always felt like kind of frenetic, you know? It's like how do I get things to calm down more than how do I get things to amp up, you know? Like I'll even wear earplugs a lot of the day now, and it makes things a lot easier for me to kind of navigate. Interesting. Yeah, it just makes everything easier to focus on.
I've always felt like kind of frenetic, you know? It's like how do I get things to calm down more than how do I get things to amp up, you know? Like I'll even wear earplugs a lot of the day now, and it makes things a lot easier for me to kind of navigate. Interesting. Yeah, it just makes everything easier to focus on.
What's up? All right. Oh, you mean you wake up and do jujitsu, you mean?
What's up? All right. Oh, you mean you wake up and do jujitsu, you mean?
What's up? All right. Oh, you mean you wake up and do jujitsu, you mean?
It makes it easier if I'm doing sauna, steam bath, ice bath, working out, any of those things. It makes it – You wear earbuds in the – I'll wear earplugs.
It makes it easier if I'm doing sauna, steam bath, ice bath, working out, any of those things. It makes it – You wear earbuds in the – I'll wear earplugs.
It makes it easier if I'm doing sauna, steam bath, ice bath, working out, any of those things. It makes it – You wear earbuds in the – I'll wear earplugs.
Yeah, and I'll wear them all night while I sleep. It just makes everything a lot easier. Ready to win some real cash during the basketball playoffs? Check out Pick 6 from DraftKings. When it comes to basketball payouts, DraftKings, Pick 6 posterizes the competition. Hit all your picks and score higher minimum payouts on pick six, plus even more cash if you outscore the competition.
Yeah, and I'll wear them all night while I sleep. It just makes everything a lot easier. Ready to win some real cash during the basketball playoffs? Check out Pick 6 from DraftKings. When it comes to basketball payouts, DraftKings, Pick 6 posterizes the competition. Hit all your picks and score higher minimum payouts on pick six, plus even more cash if you outscore the competition.
Yeah, and I'll wear them all night while I sleep. It just makes everything a lot easier. Ready to win some real cash during the basketball playoffs? Check out Pick 6 from DraftKings. When it comes to basketball payouts, DraftKings, Pick 6 posterizes the competition. Hit all your picks and score higher minimum payouts on pick six, plus even more cash if you outscore the competition.
Pick six is available in most states, including Missouri, California, Texas, Georgia, and more. I like to pick Kevin Durant, the Durantula. and more than 22 points. Or sometimes I'll pick and more than 11 rebounds. It's up to you. New players get 50 and pick six credits instantly on just a $5 entry. Download the DraftKings Pick 6 app now and use code Theo.
Pick six is available in most states, including Missouri, California, Texas, Georgia, and more. I like to pick Kevin Durant, the Durantula. and more than 22 points. Or sometimes I'll pick and more than 11 rebounds. It's up to you. New players get 50 and pick six credits instantly on just a $5 entry. Download the DraftKings Pick 6 app now and use code Theo.
Pick six is available in most states, including Missouri, California, Texas, Georgia, and more. I like to pick Kevin Durant, the Durantula. and more than 22 points. Or sometimes I'll pick and more than 11 rebounds. It's up to you. New players get 50 and pick six credits instantly on just a $5 entry. Download the DraftKings Pick 6 app now and use code Theo.
That's code T-H-E-O for new customers to play $5. Get $50 in Pick 6 credits. Better payouts, bigger wins, only with Pick 6 from DraftKings. The crown is yours. Make sure to be responsible.
That's code T-H-E-O for new customers to play $5. Get $50 in Pick 6 credits. Better payouts, bigger wins, only with Pick 6 from DraftKings. The crown is yours. Make sure to be responsible.
That's code T-H-E-O for new customers to play $5. Get $50 in Pick 6 credits. Better payouts, bigger wins, only with Pick 6 from DraftKings. The crown is yours. Make sure to be responsible.
Hi, everyone. So I've been telling you guys about MoonPay for a while now, right? And honestly, I'm not going to stop because it's just that good. You've heard me talk about the MoonPay app, and for good reason. It's incredibly user-friendly for buying and selling crypto. But today I want to share more about what makes MoonPay so cool. MoonPay powers the entire world of crypto.
Hi, everyone. So I've been telling you guys about MoonPay for a while now, right? And honestly, I'm not going to stop because it's just that good. You've heard me talk about the MoonPay app, and for good reason. It's incredibly user-friendly for buying and selling crypto. But today I want to share more about what makes MoonPay so cool. MoonPay powers the entire world of crypto.
Hi, everyone. So I've been telling you guys about MoonPay for a while now, right? And honestly, I'm not going to stop because it's just that good. You've heard me talk about the MoonPay app, and for good reason. It's incredibly user-friendly for buying and selling crypto. But today I want to share more about what makes MoonPay so cool. MoonPay powers the entire world of crypto.
Some people say they are the PayPal of crypto because just like you could use PayPal to buy anything on the internet, now you can use MoonPay to buy anything in crypto. And while we're on the subject of cool MoonPay partners, you've definitely got to check out Uniswap. It's your go-to decentralized exchange where swapping tokens is as easy as pie. And guess what?
Some people say they are the PayPal of crypto because just like you could use PayPal to buy anything on the internet, now you can use MoonPay to buy anything in crypto. And while we're on the subject of cool MoonPay partners, you've definitely got to check out Uniswap. It's your go-to decentralized exchange where swapping tokens is as easy as pie. And guess what?
Some people say they are the PayPal of crypto because just like you could use PayPal to buy anything on the internet, now you can use MoonPay to buy anything in crypto. And while we're on the subject of cool MoonPay partners, you've definitely got to check out Uniswap. It's your go-to decentralized exchange where swapping tokens is as easy as pie. And guess what?
You can use Moonpay to buy more crypto for your swaps. Whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, Uniswap lets you trade directly from your wallet, keeping things smooth and simple. Remember, while MoonPay makes buying crypto straightforward, it's essential to do your own research and understand the risks involved. Crypto trading can be volatile and you could lose your investment.
You can use Moonpay to buy more crypto for your swaps. Whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, Uniswap lets you trade directly from your wallet, keeping things smooth and simple. Remember, while MoonPay makes buying crypto straightforward, it's essential to do your own research and understand the risks involved. Crypto trading can be volatile and you could lose your investment.
You can use Moonpay to buy more crypto for your swaps. Whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, Uniswap lets you trade directly from your wallet, keeping things smooth and simple. Remember, while MoonPay makes buying crypto straightforward, it's essential to do your own research and understand the risks involved. Crypto trading can be volatile and you could lose your investment.
MoonPay is a tool to facilitate your transactions, not a source of financial advice. Trade responsibly. You dropped out of college, right? Yeah. And Alexander Wang, he came on one time. We were talking about him earlier. But he had dropped out of college also. Do you think people need college still? Because you have these creative guys who are having success and they didn't go through college.
MoonPay is a tool to facilitate your transactions, not a source of financial advice. Trade responsibly. You dropped out of college, right? Yeah. And Alexander Wang, he came on one time. We were talking about him earlier. But he had dropped out of college also. Do you think people need college still? Because you have these creative guys who are having success and they didn't go through college.
MoonPay is a tool to facilitate your transactions, not a source of financial advice. Trade responsibly. You dropped out of college, right? Yeah. And Alexander Wang, he came on one time. We were talking about him earlier. But he had dropped out of college also. Do you think people need college still? Because you have these creative guys who are having success and they didn't go through college.
Do you feel like people still need college? What do you feel like that looks like for now and the future?
Do you feel like people still need college? What do you feel like that looks like for now and the future?
Do you feel like people still need college? What do you feel like that looks like for now and the future?
Right. Um, But yeah. Yeah. That's just that social is learning to be around others, learning to not be at your parents. Yeah.
Right. Um, But yeah. Yeah. That's just that social is learning to be around others, learning to not be at your parents. Yeah.
Right. Um, But yeah. Yeah. That's just that social is learning to be around others, learning to not be at your parents. Yeah.
Well, you're not even guaranteed a job. You would think at a certain rate you're paying, you'd be guaranteed some sort of beginner employment.
Well, you're not even guaranteed a job. You would think at a certain rate you're paying, you'd be guaranteed some sort of beginner employment.
Well, you're not even guaranteed a job. You would think at a certain rate you're paying, you'd be guaranteed some sort of beginner employment.
Do you think, I was just talking earlier about, With Colin, I think one of your assistants, one of your coworkers, sorry, I didn't want to say assistants, but, and we're kind of saying that, yeah, like what classes do you think like kids should be learning now? Because like with AI coming along and with technology starting to develop. like really multiply itself pretty quickly.
Do you think, I was just talking earlier about, With Colin, I think one of your assistants, one of your coworkers, sorry, I didn't want to say assistants, but, and we're kind of saying that, yeah, like what classes do you think like kids should be learning now? Because like with AI coming along and with technology starting to develop. like really multiply itself pretty quickly.
Do you think, I was just talking earlier about, With Colin, I think one of your assistants, one of your coworkers, sorry, I didn't want to say assistants, but, and we're kind of saying that, yeah, like what classes do you think like kids should be learning now? Because like with AI coming along and with technology starting to develop. like really multiply itself pretty quickly.
But no, it's... So that helps. It's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes, like rolling jujitsu kind of. Yeah.
But no, it's... So that helps. It's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes, like rolling jujitsu kind of. Yeah.
But no, it's... So that helps. It's almost like your coffee in the morning sometimes, like rolling jujitsu kind of. Yeah.
Like our ability to advance is, is going to only grow faster. It seems like, would you feel like that's true overall statement?
Like our ability to advance is, is going to only grow faster. It seems like, would you feel like that's true overall statement?
Like our ability to advance is, is going to only grow faster. It seems like, would you feel like that's true overall statement?
Accelerating. Yeah. That's the word I'm looking for. Sorry. So with that happening, what are like, I feel like they should be teaching how to like kind of use AI to children right now in elementary and middle schools. Does that, that sounds very real to me. Do you feel like that? That's like not, not how to code or anything, but just how to do it.
Accelerating. Yeah. That's the word I'm looking for. Sorry. So with that happening, what are like, I feel like they should be teaching how to like kind of use AI to children right now in elementary and middle schools. Does that, that sounds very real to me. Do you feel like that? That's like not, not how to code or anything, but just how to do it.
Accelerating. Yeah. That's the word I'm looking for. Sorry. So with that happening, what are like, I feel like they should be teaching how to like kind of use AI to children right now in elementary and middle schools. Does that, that sounds very real to me. Do you feel like that? That's like not, not how to code or anything, but just how to do it.
Right. That's like you, like you found a, a model kind of. Yeah, exactly. And it was hard. It was a, it was a tough model.
Right. That's like you, like you found a, a model kind of. Yeah, exactly. And it was hard. It was a, it was a tough model.
Right. That's like you, like you found a, a model kind of. Yeah, exactly. And it was hard. It was a, it was a tough model.
Bring him up, baby. Zooming Fung. We want the Fung. You ever hear that song? They used to play that.
Bring him up, baby. Zooming Fung. We want the Fung. You ever hear that song? They used to play that.
Bring him up, baby. Zooming Fung. We want the Fung. You ever hear that song? They used to play that.
Running compared to jujitsu is for running is a, running is not really neat. Once you can do jujitsu, because I think one cool thing about jujitsu is just like, you can lose a match with somebody, right? You can lose like, um, like they can submit you, but you'll learn something along the way. Right. And they, they, A lot of times the guy submitting you also wants to help you learn, too.
Running compared to jujitsu is for running is a, running is not really neat. Once you can do jujitsu, because I think one cool thing about jujitsu is just like, you can lose a match with somebody, right? You can lose like, um, like they can submit you, but you'll learn something along the way. Right. And they, they, A lot of times the guy submitting you also wants to help you learn, too.
Running compared to jujitsu is for running is a, running is not really neat. Once you can do jujitsu, because I think one cool thing about jujitsu is just like, you can lose a match with somebody, right? You can lose like, um, like they can submit you, but you'll learn something along the way. Right. And they, they, A lot of times the guy submitting you also wants to help you learn, too.
so that's the value you're saying and seeing in college like those are some of the other values you might not see like oh yeah might be not be able to be seen on paper but the but the value of that yeah that's a good point man it's like yeah i remember like some of my favorite people still to this day in my life have been some of my teachers that challenged me or that believed in me or that said a certain like man i admire the way you do this or this you know and um and it really encourages you and wants kind of plants a lot of seeds to make you want to do those things so much more
so that's the value you're saying and seeing in college like those are some of the other values you might not see like oh yeah might be not be able to be seen on paper but the but the value of that yeah that's a good point man it's like yeah i remember like some of my favorite people still to this day in my life have been some of my teachers that challenged me or that believed in me or that said a certain like man i admire the way you do this or this you know and um and it really encourages you and wants kind of plants a lot of seeds to make you want to do those things so much more
so that's the value you're saying and seeing in college like those are some of the other values you might not see like oh yeah might be not be able to be seen on paper but the but the value of that yeah that's a good point man it's like yeah i remember like some of my favorite people still to this day in my life have been some of my teachers that challenged me or that believed in me or that said a certain like man i admire the way you do this or this you know and um and it really encourages you and wants kind of plants a lot of seeds to make you want to do those things so much more
I think a lot of these days, a lot of people get their mentorship probably, I would guess, from teachers unless they play a sport, you know?
I think a lot of these days, a lot of people get their mentorship probably, I would guess, from teachers unless they play a sport, you know?
I think a lot of these days, a lot of people get their mentorship probably, I would guess, from teachers unless they play a sport, you know?
He'll take care of you. Did your parents give you love or just sonic care? That's just an old dentist joke. Glad you got that taken care of. Yeah, I feel a lot better about it. But what were we talking about?
He'll take care of you. Did your parents give you love or just sonic care? That's just an old dentist joke. Glad you got that taken care of. Yeah, I feel a lot better about it. But what were we talking about?
He'll take care of you. Did your parents give you love or just sonic care? That's just an old dentist joke. Glad you got that taken care of. Yeah, I feel a lot better about it. But what were we talking about?
So you were coding, you were putting coding into like dental work. You were already thinking of how to connect things.
So you were coding, you were putting coding into like dental work. You were already thinking of how to connect things.
So you were coding, you were putting coding into like dental work. You were already thinking of how to connect things.
So it's like you can lose and win at the same time. I think that's what's kind of masterful about it. Yeah, totally. Do you do it? I don't do it as much as I would like to, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Striking. Yeah. Yeah. No, I never got into striking, but I would just kind of like but I would just do jujitsu on the mats, you know?
So it's like you can lose and win at the same time. I think that's what's kind of masterful about it. Yeah, totally. Do you do it? I don't do it as much as I would like to, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Striking. Yeah. Yeah. No, I never got into striking, but I would just kind of like but I would just do jujitsu on the mats, you know?
So it's like you can lose and win at the same time. I think that's what's kind of masterful about it. Yeah, totally. Do you do it? I don't do it as much as I would like to, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Striking. Yeah. Yeah. No, I never got into striking, but I would just kind of like but I would just do jujitsu on the mats, you know?
Dude, if somebody even went to Harvard for four days, dude, I would hire them to be my therapist or whatever.
Dude, if somebody even went to Harvard for four days, dude, I would hire them to be my therapist or whatever.
Dude, if somebody even went to Harvard for four days, dude, I would hire them to be my therapist or whatever.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess what I'm from, if you heard Harvard, it was like somebody had gone to like Mars or something. It was very, you know...
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess what I'm from, if you heard Harvard, it was like somebody had gone to like Mars or something. It was very, you know...
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I guess what I'm from, if you heard Harvard, it was like somebody had gone to like Mars or something. It was very, you know...
So, but I think, so it kind of differs from place to place. Whenever you drop, whenever you, did you have to tell your parents you were dropping out of college? Was that a crazy day? Did you DM them or what'd you do?
So, but I think, so it kind of differs from place to place. Whenever you drop, whenever you, did you have to tell your parents you were dropping out of college? Was that a crazy day? Did you DM them or what'd you do?
So, but I think, so it kind of differs from place to place. Whenever you drop, whenever you, did you have to tell your parents you were dropping out of college? Was that a crazy day? Did you DM them or what'd you do?
But no, but actually... But that's got to be the worst. Imagine this, okay? Say you're a son or child or daughter or mixed child or whatever. Imagine it's a big test at school, right? You have to hug your kid goodbye. You know your kid is not going to do good on that test, right? But you still have to stay in there in the kitchen and give them a little bit of chocolate milk.
But no, but actually... But that's got to be the worst. Imagine this, okay? Say you're a son or child or daughter or mixed child or whatever. Imagine it's a big test at school, right? You have to hug your kid goodbye. You know your kid is not going to do good on that test, right? But you still have to stay in there in the kitchen and give them a little bit of chocolate milk.
But no, but actually... But that's got to be the worst. Imagine this, okay? Say you're a son or child or daughter or mixed child or whatever. Imagine it's a big test at school, right? You have to hug your kid goodbye. You know your kid is not going to do good on that test, right? But you still have to stay in there in the kitchen and give them a little bit of chocolate milk.
and be like, you're going to do good out there today, Benny, or whatever his name is, right? But then the second he leaves, you're just like, oh, kid, I didn't have age. Benny's screwed.
and be like, you're going to do good out there today, Benny, or whatever his name is, right? But then the second he leaves, you're just like, oh, kid, I didn't have age. Benny's screwed.
and be like, you're going to do good out there today, Benny, or whatever his name is, right? But then the second he leaves, you're just like, oh, kid, I didn't have age. Benny's screwed.
I don't know what it's like. No, but my younger sister. Is our conversation going okay? I feel like it's cool with you.
I don't know what it's like. No, but my younger sister. Is our conversation going okay? I feel like it's cool with you.
I don't know what it's like. No, but my younger sister. Is our conversation going okay? I feel like it's cool with you.
I know. Yeah. Oh, dang. Do you even get your GED at all either? No, I did finish. I did finish high school. You did? GED is high school, right? Is that? I don't know. I think they make a GED premier now.
I know. Yeah. Oh, dang. Do you even get your GED at all either? No, I did finish. I did finish high school. You did? GED is high school, right? Is that? I don't know. I think they make a GED premier now.
I know. Yeah. Oh, dang. Do you even get your GED at all either? No, I did finish. I did finish high school. You did? GED is high school, right? Is that? I don't know. I think they make a GED premier now.
You got a high school diploma.
You got a high school diploma.
You got a high school diploma.
It's just like fun to do with friends. Oh, yeah. And some guy chokes you so hard. And then you're just like, God, you're like, ugh. It's a good day. Yeah, it's a cup of coffee. If a big fella just squeezes you until you can't handle it, it's a cup of coffee.
It's just like fun to do with friends. Oh, yeah. And some guy chokes you so hard. And then you're just like, God, you're like, ugh. It's a good day. Yeah, it's a cup of coffee. If a big fella just squeezes you until you can't handle it, it's a cup of coffee.
It's just like fun to do with friends. Oh, yeah. And some guy chokes you so hard. And then you're just like, God, you're like, ugh. It's a good day. Yeah, it's a cup of coffee. If a big fella just squeezes you until you can't handle it, it's a cup of coffee.
Dude, that's 94% of our country. So you're in good hands, brother. You're right there with some of the greats. So when you started, when you first started, let me think if I want to think. Oh, where was your first date that you took Priscilla to? Do you remember?
Dude, that's 94% of our country. So you're in good hands, brother. You're right there with some of the greats. So when you started, when you first started, let me think if I want to think. Oh, where was your first date that you took Priscilla to? Do you remember?
Dude, that's 94% of our country. So you're in good hands, brother. You're right there with some of the greats. So when you started, when you first started, let me think if I want to think. Oh, where was your first date that you took Priscilla to? Do you remember?
And was it just like y'all went and sat down? Is it like a restaurant or just a place to get like that?
And was it just like y'all went and sat down? Is it like a restaurant or just a place to get like that?
And was it just like y'all went and sat down? Is it like a restaurant or just a place to get like that?
Good deal. Nothing like a couple of tech emperors enjoying a couple of mice. You feel me? I think that's very normal. That's very normal to me, dude. Sorry, that just made me laugh. I'm sorry, Mark. That just made me freaking laugh. It's just crazy to think.
Good deal. Nothing like a couple of tech emperors enjoying a couple of mice. You feel me? I think that's very normal. That's very normal to me, dude. Sorry, that just made me laugh. I'm sorry, Mark. That just made me freaking laugh. It's just crazy to think.
Good deal. Nothing like a couple of tech emperors enjoying a couple of mice. You feel me? I think that's very normal. That's very normal to me, dude. Sorry, that just made me laugh. I'm sorry, Mark. That just made me freaking laugh. It's just crazy to think.
Yes, chocolate mice. Yeah, and we'll put that in the notes. Yeah, no, it's not.
Yes, chocolate mice. Yeah, and we'll put that in the notes. Yeah, no, it's not.
Yes, chocolate mice. Yeah, and we'll put that in the notes. Yeah, no, it's not.
Give me the live mice. And then one mouse shows up and he has like a bad leg. You're like, all of them fully live. Dude, if somebody sees a mouse with a bad leg, nobody even cares. That's the saddest thing about some mice. But actually, I used to sell hamsters. My first job was selling hamsters growing up. And a lot of that market... They brought in these Russian hamsters, right?
Give me the live mice. And then one mouse shows up and he has like a bad leg. You're like, all of them fully live. Dude, if somebody sees a mouse with a bad leg, nobody even cares. That's the saddest thing about some mice. But actually, I used to sell hamsters. My first job was selling hamsters growing up. And a lot of that market... They brought in these Russian hamsters, right?
Give me the live mice. And then one mouse shows up and he has like a bad leg. You're like, all of them fully live. Dude, if somebody sees a mouse with a bad leg, nobody even cares. That's the saddest thing about some mice. But actually, I used to sell hamsters. My first job was selling hamsters growing up. And a lot of that market... They brought in these Russian hamsters, right?
And it took away a lot of the American market. And the Russian ones, they're called like the Roborovskis. Bring up a couple of Roborovskis, man. They were... They took away like the fluffy kind of American ham. And they...
And it took away a lot of the American market. And the Russian ones, they're called like the Roborovskis. Bring up a couple of Roborovskis, man. They were... They took away like the fluffy kind of American ham. And they...
And it took away a lot of the American market. And the Russian ones, they're called like the Roborovskis. Bring up a couple of Roborovskis, man. They were... They took away like the fluffy kind of American ham. And they...
They are cute, but the ones that we were getting, a lot of them were from Russia. Put from Russia. Put Roborovsky hamsters from Russia with the small white ones with kind of the red eyes. Yeah, they really, I think they put some visual effects on some of their eyes. There you go. These were really not helping people feel good.
They are cute, but the ones that we were getting, a lot of them were from Russia. Put from Russia. Put Roborovsky hamsters from Russia with the small white ones with kind of the red eyes. Yeah, they really, I think they put some visual effects on some of their eyes. There you go. These were really not helping people feel good.
They are cute, but the ones that we were getting, a lot of them were from Russia. Put from Russia. Put Roborovsky hamsters from Russia with the small white ones with kind of the red eyes. Yeah, they really, I think they put some visual effects on some of their eyes. There you go. These were really not helping people feel good.
It was a little bit much. It was a lot for some of the children.
It was a little bit much. It was a lot for some of the children.
It was a little bit much. It was a lot for some of the children.
I've never seen a hedgehog.
I've never seen a hedgehog.
I've never seen a hedgehog.
Is there like a... a vitamin or some staple that you kind of keep in your diet? If it's not caffeine, is there some like?
Is there like a... a vitamin or some staple that you kind of keep in your diet? If it's not caffeine, is there some like?
Is there like a... a vitamin or some staple that you kind of keep in your diet? If it's not caffeine, is there some like?
Just like that issue that's going on with that guy that deported El Salvador right now. It sounds like very, I don't know if it's similar to that, but it sounds like there's like a lot of- That seems completely different. Yeah, you're right.
Just like that issue that's going on with that guy that deported El Salvador right now. It sounds like very, I don't know if it's similar to that, but it sounds like there's like a lot of- That seems completely different. Yeah, you're right.
Just like that issue that's going on with that guy that deported El Salvador right now. It sounds like very, I don't know if it's similar to that, but it sounds like there's like a lot of- That seems completely different. Yeah, you're right.
You're right. That's- Yeah, you're right. It's not the same fairy tale. I don't know how either one of those fairy tale ends, but that's so sad that- Well, the cat at least got a home. Yeah. The cat got a home and this, I think that guy will get home. I don't know a lot about it. It just like spawned me on that. That could be something like that. Um, do you, you have how many daughters you have?
You're right. That's- Yeah, you're right. It's not the same fairy tale. I don't know how either one of those fairy tale ends, but that's so sad that- Well, the cat at least got a home. Yeah. The cat got a home and this, I think that guy will get home. I don't know a lot about it. It just like spawned me on that. That could be something like that. Um, do you, you have how many daughters you have?
You're right. That's- Yeah, you're right. It's not the same fairy tale. I don't know how either one of those fairy tale ends, but that's so sad that- Well, the cat at least got a home. Yeah. The cat got a home and this, I think that guy will get home. I don't know a lot about it. It just like spawned me on that. That could be something like that. Um, do you, you have how many daughters you have?
Uh, three daughters, three daughters. You had three sisters.
Uh, three daughters, three daughters. You had three sisters.
Uh, three daughters, three daughters. You had three sisters.
And did you, what's it like, like bedtime with your daughters at night? Like, what is that like at, at the Zuckerberg's home?
And did you, what's it like, like bedtime with your daughters at night? Like, what is that like at, at the Zuckerberg's home?
And did you, what's it like, like bedtime with your daughters at night? Like, what is that like at, at the Zuckerberg's home?
And I appreciate your support for the return of the rat tour. Today's guest is an entrepreneur. He's an inventor. He's a philanthropist. He is one of the richest men in the world, and a consensus of wealth and power exists in only so few people. He co-founded Facebook in 2004 when he was 19 years old, the company that turned into Meta, which is where we are today in their headquarters.
And I appreciate your support for the return of the rat tour. Today's guest is an entrepreneur. He's an inventor. He's a philanthropist. He is one of the richest men in the world, and a consensus of wealth and power exists in only so few people. He co-founded Facebook in 2004 when he was 19 years old, the company that turned into Meta, which is where we are today in their headquarters.
And I appreciate your support for the return of the rat tour. Today's guest is an entrepreneur. He's an inventor. He's a philanthropist. He is one of the richest men in the world, and a consensus of wealth and power exists in only so few people. He co-founded Facebook in 2004 when he was 19 years old, the company that turned into Meta, which is where we are today in their headquarters.
And you notice that in her.
And you notice that in her.
And you notice that in her.
You have what she has, right? It's like you're just constantly creating stuff. He's like, dude, yeah, you're Thomas Medicine. There you go. Is that pretty good?
You have what she has, right? It's like you're just constantly creating stuff. He's like, dude, yeah, you're Thomas Medicine. There you go. Is that pretty good?
You have what she has, right? It's like you're just constantly creating stuff. He's like, dude, yeah, you're Thomas Medicine. There you go. Is that pretty good?
Yeah, she's nine. Okay, so that's getting up there a little bit. She is.
Yeah, she's nine. Okay, so that's getting up there a little bit. She is.
Yeah, she's nine. Okay, so that's getting up there a little bit. She is.
We saw each other at the UFC and you and your wife were there, right? Uh, yeah, which one was that? I'm trying to think, it wasn't... 312?
We saw each other at the UFC and you and your wife were there, right? Uh, yeah, which one was that? I'm trying to think, it wasn't... 312?
We saw each other at the UFC and you and your wife were there, right? Uh, yeah, which one was that? I'm trying to think, it wasn't... 312?
Well, I think it's inspiring just to even parents to hear, like, what can you talk to your kid about? You know what I'm saying? Like, if your kid's 13 and you're still reading Embarrassing Bears or whatever, some of that's on you. Like, you got to evolve some of the curriculum for your child, you know?
Well, I think it's inspiring just to even parents to hear, like, what can you talk to your kid about? You know what I'm saying? Like, if your kid's 13 and you're still reading Embarrassing Bears or whatever, some of that's on you. Like, you got to evolve some of the curriculum for your child, you know?
Well, I think it's inspiring just to even parents to hear, like, what can you talk to your kid about? You know what I'm saying? Like, if your kid's 13 and you're still reading Embarrassing Bears or whatever, some of that's on you. Like, you got to evolve some of the curriculum for your child, you know?
Because, yeah, a lot of parents think you probably can't kind of build these worlds in a child's head. But if you start with the basic blocks, then you kind of can, you know, and help them get bigger ideas about things. I think that's cool. I think there's nothing more important than how a parent communicates with their child, you know, and what they communicate to them.
Because, yeah, a lot of parents think you probably can't kind of build these worlds in a child's head. But if you start with the basic blocks, then you kind of can, you know, and help them get bigger ideas about things. I think that's cool. I think there's nothing more important than how a parent communicates with their child, you know, and what they communicate to them.
Because, yeah, a lot of parents think you probably can't kind of build these worlds in a child's head. But if you start with the basic blocks, then you kind of can, you know, and help them get bigger ideas about things. I think that's cool. I think there's nothing more important than how a parent communicates with their child, you know, and what they communicate to them.
Because so often we just expect like teachers and different curriculum out in the world or just the world to do that for our children. But man, I think the biggest faucet for a child is the parent, you know. That's pretty cool. And the little one is just a little.
Because so often we just expect like teachers and different curriculum out in the world or just the world to do that for our children. But man, I think the biggest faucet for a child is the parent, you know. That's pretty cool. And the little one is just a little.
Because so often we just expect like teachers and different curriculum out in the world or just the world to do that for our children. But man, I think the biggest faucet for a child is the parent, you know. That's pretty cool. And the little one is just a little.
She's like, email me now.
She's like, email me now.
She's like, email me now.
Email me at Zuckerbaby at meta.
Email me at Zuckerbaby at meta.
Email me at Zuckerbaby at meta.
She's like, I weigh six terabytes. She's like, calm down, you know? That's so funny being like a...
She's like, I weigh six terabytes. She's like, calm down, you know? That's so funny being like a...
She's like, I weigh six terabytes. She's like, calm down, you know? That's so funny being like a...
But that's hilarious.
But that's hilarious.
But that's hilarious.
She'll be like crying. You're like, how do you, but she knows that's the world. She's like. She knows.
She'll be like crying. You're like, how do you, but she knows that's the world. She's like. She knows.
She'll be like crying. You're like, how do you, but she knows that's the world. She's like. She knows.
Yeah. Did your wife, like, she could, like, really, it, like, she was, like, head in her hands sometimes.
Yeah. Did your wife, like, she could, like, really, it, like, she was, like, head in her hands sometimes.
Yeah. Did your wife, like, she could, like, really, it, like, she was, like, head in her hands sometimes.
It's cute. I think Oreo's a cuter. She'll probably marry a basketball player, I'm guessing. Who knows, Mark? Who knows what'll happen? Oreo Zuckerberg? Dude, that's when you get into the food industry. Oreo Zuckerberg?
It's cute. I think Oreo's a cuter. She'll probably marry a basketball player, I'm guessing. Who knows, Mark? Who knows what'll happen? Oreo Zuckerberg? Dude, that's when you get into the food industry. Oreo Zuckerberg?
It's cute. I think Oreo's a cuter. She'll probably marry a basketball player, I'm guessing. Who knows, Mark? Who knows what'll happen? Oreo Zuckerberg? Dude, that's when you get into the food industry. Oreo Zuckerberg?
And she's like, but at least she has... But I like that, though. She has, like, a plate, you know?
And she's like, but at least she has... But I like that, though. She has, like, a plate, you know?
And she's like, but at least she has... But I like that, though. She has, like, a plate, you know?
Yeah, I like that. I love that idea that some child somewhere, this is going to make my day so much better just knowing that a child is just.
Yeah, I like that. I love that idea that some child somewhere, this is going to make my day so much better just knowing that a child is just.
Yeah, I like that. I love that idea that some child somewhere, this is going to make my day so much better just knowing that a child is just.
Yeah. There's not enough bandwidth in this crib.
Yeah. There's not enough bandwidth in this crib.
Yeah. There's not enough bandwidth in this crib.
Is it fun being a dad? Do you feel like you enjoy it? Does it feel kind of... Is it tough to connect with your children? Does that ever feel like a thing as a dad with girl daughters? Or with... Yeah.
Is it fun being a dad? Do you feel like you enjoy it? Does it feel kind of... Is it tough to connect with your children? Does that ever feel like a thing as a dad with girl daughters? Or with... Yeah.
Is it fun being a dad? Do you feel like you enjoy it? Does it feel kind of... Is it tough to connect with your children? Does that ever feel like a thing as a dad with girl daughters? Or with... Yeah.
So- And what do they call you? Do they call y'all dad, father, mother?
So- And what do they call you? Do they call y'all dad, father, mother?
So- And what do they call you? Do they call y'all dad, father, mother?
These diapers are too tight. Tell my lawyer that's hilarious. That's crazy.
These diapers are too tight. Tell my lawyer that's hilarious. That's crazy.
These diapers are too tight. Tell my lawyer that's hilarious. That's crazy.
Do your kids have a lot of like screen time? Like how much screen time do you allow your kids?
Do your kids have a lot of like screen time? Like how much screen time do you allow your kids?
Do your kids have a lot of like screen time? Like how much screen time do you allow your kids?
thank you dude somebody else needs to say that yeah no it's um where's the i want to when do we come out with that pacifier that really shuts these kids down for a couple hours i'm not saying anything crazy nothing illegal but we need we need a high voltage pacifier back in society mark oh man um give us something brother yeah these kids are screaming
thank you dude somebody else needs to say that yeah no it's um where's the i want to when do we come out with that pacifier that really shuts these kids down for a couple hours i'm not saying anything crazy nothing illegal but we need we need a high voltage pacifier back in society mark oh man um give us something brother yeah these kids are screaming
thank you dude somebody else needs to say that yeah no it's um where's the i want to when do we come out with that pacifier that really shuts these kids down for a couple hours i'm not saying anything crazy nothing illegal but we need we need a high voltage pacifier back in society mark oh man um give us something brother yeah these kids are screaming
The craziest thing happened to me. One time I'm on a plane, I'm dreaming, right? And I'm like, man, I'm really having some nice dreams because I never have good sleep or anything. So every now and then I come to the surface of my dreams and I'm like, wow, I'm still dreaming. And I go back underwater. But I heard a ukulele playing, right? Ukulele.
The craziest thing happened to me. One time I'm on a plane, I'm dreaming, right? And I'm like, man, I'm really having some nice dreams because I never have good sleep or anything. So every now and then I come to the surface of my dreams and I'm like, wow, I'm still dreaming. And I go back underwater. But I heard a ukulele playing, right? Ukulele.
The craziest thing happened to me. One time I'm on a plane, I'm dreaming, right? And I'm like, man, I'm really having some nice dreams because I never have good sleep or anything. So every now and then I come to the surface of my dreams and I'm like, wow, I'm still dreaming. And I go back underwater. But I heard a ukulele playing, right? Ukulele.
And that was really tough. Did you get to walk out with him or no? No.
And that was really tough. Did you get to walk out with him or no? No.
And that was really tough. Did you get to walk out with him or no? No.
And at some point I wake up and there is a effing child or child, as some people call them, playing a ukulele with his parents on this plane. I walked up, and I put my hand on it in front of the parents. I think I was still groggy from being asleep, and I was like, we can't do this today.
And at some point I wake up and there is a effing child or child, as some people call them, playing a ukulele with his parents on this plane. I walked up, and I put my hand on it in front of the parents. I think I was still groggy from being asleep, and I was like, we can't do this today.
And at some point I wake up and there is a effing child or child, as some people call them, playing a ukulele with his parents on this plane. I walked up, and I put my hand on it in front of the parents. I think I was still groggy from being asleep, and I was like, we can't do this today.
We're shutting down this little hand Hawaii you got going on right here.
We're shutting down this little hand Hawaii you got going on right here.
We're shutting down this little hand Hawaii you got going on right here.
Yeah. I mean, it's... It really did. So I just said, we're not doing this today.
Yeah. I mean, it's... It really did. So I just said, we're not doing this today.
Yeah. I mean, it's... It really did. So I just said, we're not doing this today.
You'll be back in the office tomorrow. Like sometimes you just have to, you know. So I agree. Please do whatever you can to stop these kids from being on planes or screaming on planes because we are looking. That's one thing we are all looking to you for.
You'll be back in the office tomorrow. Like sometimes you just have to, you know. So I agree. Please do whatever you can to stop these kids from being on planes or screaming on planes because we are looking. That's one thing we are all looking to you for.
You'll be back in the office tomorrow. Like sometimes you just have to, you know. So I agree. Please do whatever you can to stop these kids from being on planes or screaming on planes because we are looking. That's one thing we are all looking to you for.
Nobody needs help spending their money. Sometimes it feels like the whole world is just trying to spend your money. We're going to spend your money. But people don't need help spending their money. People need help growing their money. That's why there's Acorns. In a world that wants to spend your money, Acorns hopes to grow your money into more of your money with simple saving and investing.
Nobody needs help spending their money. Sometimes it feels like the whole world is just trying to spend your money. We're going to spend your money. But people don't need help spending their money. People need help growing their money. That's why there's Acorns. In a world that wants to spend your money, Acorns hopes to grow your money into more of your money with simple saving and investing.
Nobody needs help spending their money. Sometimes it feels like the whole world is just trying to spend your money. We're going to spend your money. But people don't need help spending their money. People need help growing their money. That's why there's Acorns. In a world that wants to spend your money, Acorns hopes to grow your money into more of your money with simple saving and investing.
You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. And you don't need to be an expert. Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all of the market's ups and downs. Acorns even works for children. I recently got my niece and nephews set up on Acorns so they can see how savings works.
You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. And you don't need to be an expert. Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all of the market's ups and downs. Acorns even works for children. I recently got my niece and nephews set up on Acorns so they can see how savings works.
You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. And you don't need to be an expert. Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all of the market's ups and downs. Acorns even works for children. I recently got my niece and nephews set up on Acorns so they can see how savings works.
Sign up now and join the over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns. Plus, Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment offer available at acorns.com slash T-H-E-O. That's A-C-O-R-N-S dot com slash T-H-E-O to get your $20 bonus investment today.
Sign up now and join the over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns. Plus, Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment offer available at acorns.com slash T-H-E-O. That's A-C-O-R-N-S dot com slash T-H-E-O to get your $20 bonus investment today.
Sign up now and join the over 14 million all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns. Plus, Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment offer available at acorns.com slash T-H-E-O. That's A-C-O-R-N-S dot com slash T-H-E-O to get your $20 bonus investment today.
podcasting it felt like everything you had to do it yourself you had to make sure your backdrop and your curtain was set up and clean and you had to make sure this thing was in focus and then sit down and get it back in focus it was just um and you had to do the editing it wasn't overwhelming but it was a lot right that's all i'm saying i'm not complaining but that's how it is
podcasting it felt like everything you had to do it yourself you had to make sure your backdrop and your curtain was set up and clean and you had to make sure this thing was in focus and then sit down and get it back in focus it was just um and you had to do the editing it wasn't overwhelming but it was a lot right that's all i'm saying i'm not complaining but that's how it is
podcasting it felt like everything you had to do it yourself you had to make sure your backdrop and your curtain was set up and clean and you had to make sure this thing was in focus and then sit down and get it back in focus it was just um and you had to do the editing it wasn't overwhelming but it was a lot right that's all i'm saying i'm not complaining but that's how it is
Until you get some help. For millions of businesses, the tool that helps is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. Turn your big business idea into...
Until you get some help. For millions of businesses, the tool that helps is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. Turn your big business idea into...
Until you get some help. For millions of businesses, the tool that helps is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. Turn your big business idea into...
with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash T-H-E-O. Go to Shopify.com slash Theo. Shopify.com slash Theo. I know it's May pretty much almost. It's before May. But I'm still recovering from the holidays. I know it sounds crazy, but I know I'm not the only one. Life in general can be chaotic.
with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash T-H-E-O. Go to Shopify.com slash Theo. Shopify.com slash Theo. I know it's May pretty much almost. It's before May. But I'm still recovering from the holidays. I know it sounds crazy, but I know I'm not the only one. Life in general can be chaotic.
with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash T-H-E-O. Go to Shopify.com slash Theo. Shopify.com slash Theo. I know it's May pretty much almost. It's before May. But I'm still recovering from the holidays. I know it sounds crazy, but I know I'm not the only one. Life in general can be chaotic.
But if you're in charge of order fulfillment for an e-commerce business, you know that that's its own special kind of chaos. But with ShipStation, you can count on your day-to-day remaining calm. ShipStation saves hours and money every month by shipping from all your stores with one login, automating repetitive tasks, and finding the best rates among all the global carriers.
But if you're in charge of order fulfillment for an e-commerce business, you know that that's its own special kind of chaos. But with ShipStation, you can count on your day-to-day remaining calm. ShipStation saves hours and money every month by shipping from all your stores with one login, automating repetitive tasks, and finding the best rates among all the global carriers.
But if you're in charge of order fulfillment for an e-commerce business, you know that that's its own special kind of chaos. But with ShipStation, you can count on your day-to-day remaining calm. ShipStation saves hours and money every month by shipping from all your stores with one login, automating repetitive tasks, and finding the best rates among all the global carriers.
You'll never need to upgrade. ShipStation grows with your business no matter how big it gets. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers. Switch to ShipStation today. Go to ShipStation.com and use code Theo to sign up for your free trial. That's S-H-I-P-S-T-A-T-I-O-N.com and use code Theo. That's ShipStation.com, code Theo.
You'll never need to upgrade. ShipStation grows with your business no matter how big it gets. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers. Switch to ShipStation today. Go to ShipStation.com and use code Theo to sign up for your free trial. That's S-H-I-P-S-T-A-T-I-O-N.com and use code Theo. That's ShipStation.com, code Theo.
You'll never need to upgrade. ShipStation grows with your business no matter how big it gets. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers. Switch to ShipStation today. Go to ShipStation.com and use code Theo to sign up for your free trial. That's S-H-I-P-S-T-A-T-I-O-N.com and use code Theo. That's ShipStation.com, code Theo.
Yeah, I did. Are those the ones you have on right now or no?
Yeah, I did. Are those the ones you have on right now or no?
Yeah, I did. Are those the ones you have on right now or no?
Right. And that's what you'll see it. That's what you put me in. Yeah. Somebody put me in it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's final season of stranger things back there. I got put in whatever they put on me. It was like lens crafters makes lens crafters look pretty, you know, lame. Well, it's, um, it's different. It's, it was, well, it was crazy. I'll say it was like, can I say what happened? Yeah.
Right. And that's what you'll see it. That's what you put me in. Yeah. Somebody put me in it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's final season of stranger things back there. I got put in whatever they put on me. It was like lens crafters makes lens crafters look pretty, you know, lame. Well, it's, um, it's different. It's, it was, well, it was crazy. I'll say it was like, can I say what happened? Yeah.
Right. And that's what you'll see it. That's what you put me in. Yeah. Somebody put me in it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's final season of stranger things back there. I got put in whatever they put on me. It was like lens crafters makes lens crafters look pretty, you know, lame. Well, it's, um, it's different. It's, it was, well, it was crazy. I'll say it was like, can I say what happened? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, so they put it you put the glasses on and they're they're it's like an advancement of the pair that you have on now right so it's like years down the line how many years down the line you realistically think that those could um
Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, so they put it you put the glasses on and they're they're it's like an advancement of the pair that you have on now right so it's like years down the line how many years down the line you realistically think that those could um
Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, so they put it you put the glasses on and they're they're it's like an advancement of the pair that you have on now right so it's like years down the line how many years down the line you realistically think that those could um
It was a great fight.
It was a great fight.
It was a great fight.
Right. What do you want, kind of?
Right. What do you want, kind of?
Right. What do you want, kind of?
It was fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. They had a thing on my wrist, right? Neural interface.
It was fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. They had a thing on my wrist, right? Neural interface.
It was fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. They had a thing on my wrist, right? Neural interface.
A neural interface?
A neural interface?
A neural interface?
Yes, it was fascinating. It was like I could like touch different nodules that I needed to and stuff or different nodes or whatever it's called. I could look at certain things and that would highlight what it was. And it was like a – it was just a screen in midair. And I could walk around the side of the room and then come back and the screen would still be there.
Yes, it was fascinating. It was like I could like touch different nodules that I needed to and stuff or different nodes or whatever it's called. I could look at certain things and that would highlight what it was. And it was like a – it was just a screen in midair. And I could walk around the side of the room and then come back and the screen would still be there.
Yes, it was fascinating. It was like I could like touch different nodules that I needed to and stuff or different nodes or whatever it's called. I could look at certain things and that would highlight what it was. And it was like a – it was just a screen in midair. And I could walk around the side of the room and then come back and the screen would still be there.
But it wasn't really there in real life. It was just there with the glasses on.
But it wasn't really there in real life. It was just there with the glasses on.
But it wasn't really there in real life. It was just there with the glasses on.
Yes. And it was crazy, man. I don't know – And then I was like, well, my first thought was like, well, how do you just get people to adapt to this? Because people aren't just going to go from where we are right now to adapt. And then I realized, okay, there's different stair steps.
Yes. And it was crazy, man. I don't know – And then I was like, well, my first thought was like, well, how do you just get people to adapt to this? Because people aren't just going to go from where we are right now to adapt. And then I realized, okay, there's different stair steps.
Yes. And it was crazy, man. I don't know – And then I was like, well, my first thought was like, well, how do you just get people to adapt to this? Because people aren't just going to go from where we are right now to adapt. And then I realized, okay, there's different stair steps.
There's like almost like when you got the first smartphone, like you're saying, and then in advance or the first mobile phone, and then you have the first metaglasses, and then it advances and stuff like that. So it was fascinating. There was a part where me and another man who I just met him and –
There's like almost like when you got the first smartphone, like you're saying, and then in advance or the first mobile phone, and then you have the first metaglasses, and then it advances and stuff like that. So it was fascinating. There was a part where me and another man who I just met him and –
There's like almost like when you got the first smartphone, like you're saying, and then in advance or the first mobile phone, and then you have the first metaglasses, and then it advances and stuff like that. So it was fascinating. There was a part where me and another man who I just met him and –
We played ping pong, and I believe it was an Asian guy, and I don't know if they did it on purpose or not, and I don't know if ping pong is Asian, but people think it is. And I started playing with this man back there, you know? Did you win? Huh? Did you win? Dude, who knows? We're in the future. I don't know if they keep score. I think everybody gets a medal.
We played ping pong, and I believe it was an Asian guy, and I don't know if they did it on purpose or not, and I don't know if ping pong is Asian, but people think it is. And I started playing with this man back there, you know? Did you win? Huh? Did you win? Dude, who knows? We're in the future. I don't know if they keep score. I think everybody gets a medal.
We played ping pong, and I believe it was an Asian guy, and I don't know if they did it on purpose or not, and I don't know if ping pong is Asian, but people think it is. And I started playing with this man back there, you know? Did you win? Huh? Did you win? Dude, who knows? We're in the future. I don't know if they keep score. I think everybody gets a medal.
Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah.
Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah.
Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah.
loser burns but no um the uh but we could play a game of and it was not real it was a ping pong table in front of us that was not real like 3d ping pong yes so it wasn't that it wasn't there uh-huh someone could ride their bike through like your dumb brother could ride his freaking bike like dang it yeah ricky bro you freaking rode right through our net
loser burns but no um the uh but we could play a game of and it was not real it was a ping pong table in front of us that was not real like 3d ping pong yes so it wasn't that it wasn't there uh-huh someone could ride their bike through like your dumb brother could ride his freaking bike like dang it yeah ricky bro you freaking rode right through our net
loser burns but no um the uh but we could play a game of and it was not real it was a ping pong table in front of us that was not real like 3d ping pong yes so it wasn't that it wasn't there uh-huh someone could ride their bike through like your dumb brother could ride his freaking bike like dang it yeah ricky bro you freaking rode right through our net
That'd be nice, because one thing I hate is at the airport, all these TVs are on our air. It's like everything is so loud now. It's like, can you just make it for you? Just turn it down. Why do we all have to experience this painful noise sometimes?
That'd be nice, because one thing I hate is at the airport, all these TVs are on our air. It's like everything is so loud now. It's like, can you just make it for you? Just turn it down. Why do we all have to experience this painful noise sometimes?
That'd be nice, because one thing I hate is at the airport, all these TVs are on our air. It's like everything is so loud now. It's like, can you just make it for you? Just turn it down. Why do we all have to experience this painful noise sometimes?
It's like watching an animal try to survive on one of those animal planet shows or something. When you're cheering for the animal, you're like, oh, it's not going to go well, but then it does good.
It's like watching an animal try to survive on one of those animal planet shows or something. When you're cheering for the animal, you're like, oh, it's not going to go well, but then it does good.
It's like watching an animal try to survive on one of those animal planet shows or something. When you're cheering for the animal, you're like, oh, it's not going to go well, but then it does good.
Do you think... Is social media bad? I mean, I don't think so. Yeah, maybe that's not the right term. Like, at a certain point, does... Yeah, like how much, you know, there's been like studies done where it's like doom scrolling and stuff like that can lead to depression, that sort of thing. Like, do you, what do you think about that?
Do you think... Is social media bad? I mean, I don't think so. Yeah, maybe that's not the right term. Like, at a certain point, does... Yeah, like how much, you know, there's been like studies done where it's like doom scrolling and stuff like that can lead to depression, that sort of thing. Like, do you, what do you think about that?
Do you think... Is social media bad? I mean, I don't think so. Yeah, maybe that's not the right term. Like, at a certain point, does... Yeah, like how much, you know, there's been like studies done where it's like doom scrolling and stuff like that can lead to depression, that sort of thing. Like, do you, what do you think about that?
Yeah, people want to be entertained, for sure.
Yeah, people want to be entertained, for sure.
Yeah, people want to be entertained, for sure.
Oh, yeah. And you get to know some of the fighters. I think that's one thing that is great about social media these days is that you get to know the fighters a little bit more than some of the regular lot. Like, you can get involved in who they are. Yeah, totally. So that gives you so much more of a person to cheer for. Is it tough to take your wife... Since you're a...
Oh, yeah. And you get to know some of the fighters. I think that's one thing that is great about social media these days is that you get to know the fighters a little bit more than some of the regular lot. Like, you can get involved in who they are. Yeah, totally. So that gives you so much more of a person to cheer for. Is it tough to take your wife... Since you're a...
Oh, yeah. And you get to know some of the fighters. I think that's one thing that is great about social media these days is that you get to know the fighters a little bit more than some of the regular lot. Like, you can get involved in who they are. Yeah, totally. So that gives you so much more of a person to cheer for. Is it tough to take your wife... Since you're a...
So then it's more like if – yeah, like sometimes I think like – because I've been thinking a lot about this. I think a lot of people have. It's like, well, we're moving into such a – like technology is advancing so much faster, right? It's accelerating the advancement speed.
So then it's more like if – yeah, like sometimes I think like – because I've been thinking a lot about this. I think a lot of people have. It's like, well, we're moving into such a – like technology is advancing so much faster, right? It's accelerating the advancement speed.
So then it's more like if – yeah, like sometimes I think like – because I've been thinking a lot about this. I think a lot of people have. It's like, well, we're moving into such a – like technology is advancing so much faster, right? It's accelerating the advancement speed.
And then we're just humans, and we're in this space now where there's like one generation to the next where one generation was completely grown up online and one hasn't really. Yeah. So I wonder – And I think the older generation probably sees it as like, man, this is so negative. Everybody's stuck. But I wonder if the younger generation, do they even know any different, right?
And then we're just humans, and we're in this space now where there's like one generation to the next where one generation was completely grown up online and one hasn't really. Yeah. So I wonder – And I think the older generation probably sees it as like, man, this is so negative. Everybody's stuck. But I wonder if the younger generation, do they even know any different, right?
And then we're just humans, and we're in this space now where there's like one generation to the next where one generation was completely grown up online and one hasn't really. Yeah. So I wonder – And I think the older generation probably sees it as like, man, this is so negative. Everybody's stuck. But I wonder if the younger generation, do they even know any different, right?
You know, like just I start to wonder what is the value of being human? Like what is the – does that start to dissipate as we become more technologically advanced or does that alter? Like do you think about that sometimes? Yeah.
You know, like just I start to wonder what is the value of being human? Like what is the – does that start to dissipate as we become more technologically advanced or does that alter? Like do you think about that sometimes? Yeah.
You know, like just I start to wonder what is the value of being human? Like what is the – does that start to dissipate as we become more technologically advanced or does that alter? Like do you think about that sometimes? Yeah.
And I'm just going to say the word really fast just so people don't dwell on it, but since you're a billionaire, is it tough to take your wife on a date? Do you have to live up to a standard or what's a nice date night? What is that like? I don't know. No, I think she's pretty chill. Yeah. She's a chillionaire. Sorry. My niece will like it.
And I'm just going to say the word really fast just so people don't dwell on it, but since you're a billionaire, is it tough to take your wife on a date? Do you have to live up to a standard or what's a nice date night? What is that like? I don't know. No, I think she's pretty chill. Yeah. She's a chillionaire. Sorry. My niece will like it.
And I'm just going to say the word really fast just so people don't dwell on it, but since you're a billionaire, is it tough to take your wife on a date? Do you have to live up to a standard or what's a nice date night? What is that like? I don't know. No, I think she's pretty chill. Yeah. She's a chillionaire. Sorry. My niece will like it.
Well, since you're kind of like a leader in innovation and technology in our world, you know, do you, how do you know that what your convictions are? How do you
Well, since you're kind of like a leader in innovation and technology in our world, you know, do you, how do you know that what your convictions are? How do you
Well, since you're kind of like a leader in innovation and technology in our world, you know, do you, how do you know that what your convictions are? How do you
I see. So you're saying it's up to the user more.
I see. So you're saying it's up to the user more.
I see. So you're saying it's up to the user more.
Yeah. There has been for sure for years. I think it's starting to change more.
Yeah. There has been for sure for years. I think it's starting to change more.
Yeah. There has been for sure for years. I think it's starting to change more.
you um so like people a lot of times like there's guys who are like kind of you know elon musk is probably like a socially awkward guy and i would say that i mean i think it's yeah we all are right we all are right i think we all are yeah and it's interesting that there's like probably people have i mean have you ever felt socially awkward over your years no i'm i'm i'm really smooth
you um so like people a lot of times like there's guys who are like kind of you know elon musk is probably like a socially awkward guy and i would say that i mean i think it's yeah we all are right we all are right i think we all are yeah and it's interesting that there's like probably people have i mean have you ever felt socially awkward over your years no i'm i'm i'm really smooth
you um so like people a lot of times like there's guys who are like kind of you know elon musk is probably like a socially awkward guy and i would say that i mean i think it's yeah we all are right we all are right i think we all are yeah and it's interesting that there's like probably people have i mean have you ever felt socially awkward over your years no i'm i'm i'm really smooth
No, your confidence cannot be impaled, I don't think. That's one thing you have that's probably a sheer North Star inside of you. It's got to be... Well, I guess... You've got to become bulletproof. I think there's times where, yeah, you seem like a guy who probably like...
No, your confidence cannot be impaled, I don't think. That's one thing you have that's probably a sheer North Star inside of you. It's got to be... Well, I guess... You've got to become bulletproof. I think there's times where, yeah, you seem like a guy who probably like...
No, your confidence cannot be impaled, I don't think. That's one thing you have that's probably a sheer North Star inside of you. It's got to be... Well, I guess... You've got to become bulletproof. I think there's times where, yeah, you seem like a guy who probably like...
like watched a video of how to be a guy on YouTube or something, you know, but I think we all, we all go through, like, we're all like awkward in different ways. You know, you put you in certain environments and you're not at all.
like watched a video of how to be a guy on YouTube or something, you know, but I think we all, we all go through, like, we're all like awkward in different ways. You know, you put you in certain environments and you're not at all.
like watched a video of how to be a guy on YouTube or something, you know, but I think we all, we all go through, like, we're all like awkward in different ways. You know, you put you in certain environments and you're not at all.
Right, for sure. But here's my question. Sorry, Mark, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, go for it. But I'm not going to get another chance to. So my question is, is it interesting that they have kind of people who would probably self-describe as socially awkward at times kind of creating technology that socially connects people? That's the thing. Do you ever find that kind of fascinating?
Right, for sure. But here's my question. Sorry, Mark, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, go for it. But I'm not going to get another chance to. So my question is, is it interesting that they have kind of people who would probably self-describe as socially awkward at times kind of creating technology that socially connects people? That's the thing. Do you ever find that kind of fascinating?
Right, for sure. But here's my question. Sorry, Mark, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, go for it. But I'm not going to get another chance to. So my question is, is it interesting that they have kind of people who would probably self-describe as socially awkward at times kind of creating technology that socially connects people? That's the thing. Do you ever find that kind of fascinating?
Because I've always had a belief that... that sometimes sociocrat people are almost a mix between human and the future or something. Does that make any sense to you?
Because I've always had a belief that... that sometimes sociocrat people are almost a mix between human and the future or something. Does that make any sense to you?
Because I've always had a belief that... that sometimes sociocrat people are almost a mix between human and the future or something. Does that make any sense to you?
Yeah, I think we're in this unique place where I believe it's like one or two generations think that one, something isn't social. And then the younger generation thinks that it is social.
Yeah, I think we're in this unique place where I believe it's like one or two generations think that one, something isn't social. And then the younger generation thinks that it is social.
Yeah, I think we're in this unique place where I believe it's like one or two generations think that one, something isn't social. And then the younger generation thinks that it is social.
And so I feel like in some senses, we're at this crossroads kind of of like how we communicate as humans a little bit. Yeah. And this advancement and sometimes those steps are kind of tricky to take. This is my last question because I know you have to go.
And so I feel like in some senses, we're at this crossroads kind of of like how we communicate as humans a little bit. Yeah. And this advancement and sometimes those steps are kind of tricky to take. This is my last question because I know you have to go.
And so I feel like in some senses, we're at this crossroads kind of of like how we communicate as humans a little bit. Yeah. And this advancement and sometimes those steps are kind of tricky to take. This is my last question because I know you have to go.
So I feel like Elon Musk has like a – like he wants to get on Mars and he wants to like impregnate different planets or whatever, you know, or whatever he's doing, dude. He's just blasting his seed out into the different rockets or whatever. You know, he's just out there. You know, he's like the Johnny Apple solar system, you know. But – God bless. But no, God bless 100%, dude. And yeah, 100%.
So I feel like Elon Musk has like a – like he wants to get on Mars and he wants to like impregnate different planets or whatever, you know, or whatever he's doing, dude. He's just blasting his seed out into the different rockets or whatever. You know, he's just out there. You know, he's like the Johnny Apple solar system, you know. But – God bless. But no, God bless 100%, dude. And yeah, 100%.
So I feel like Elon Musk has like a – like he wants to get on Mars and he wants to like impregnate different planets or whatever, you know, or whatever he's doing, dude. He's just blasting his seed out into the different rockets or whatever. You know, he's just out there. You know, he's like the Johnny Apple solar system, you know. But – God bless. But no, God bless 100%, dude. And yeah, 100%.
And I'm just joking. I think he probably would know that. But I just think it's interesting. You get what his ideas are. He wants to like, we want to be on Mars and we want to send the rockets and we want to make everything solar powered and stuff. And you're such an innovator and a leader. What do you feel like is your kind of...
And I'm just joking. I think he probably would know that. But I just think it's interesting. You get what his ideas are. He wants to like, we want to be on Mars and we want to send the rockets and we want to make everything solar powered and stuff. And you're such an innovator and a leader. What do you feel like is your kind of...
And I'm just joking. I think he probably would know that. But I just think it's interesting. You get what his ideas are. He wants to like, we want to be on Mars and we want to send the rockets and we want to make everything solar powered and stuff. And you're such an innovator and a leader. What do you feel like is your kind of...
Yeah. But she's a good sport about it. Is there something you'll do for her? Or is there, like, a fancy date? Because you could afford to take your wife on, like, a date that a lot of us could only dream of, right? That most people could only dream of. Is there something that you, like, is there some magical date that you took her on one time?
Yeah. But she's a good sport about it. Is there something you'll do for her? Or is there, like, a fancy date? Because you could afford to take your wife on, like, a date that a lot of us could only dream of, right? That most people could only dream of. Is there something that you, like, is there some magical date that you took her on one time?
Yeah. But she's a good sport about it. Is there something you'll do for her? Or is there, like, a fancy date? Because you could afford to take your wife on, like, a date that a lot of us could only dream of, right? That most people could only dream of. Is there something that you, like, is there some magical date that you took her on one time?
it's not a goal, but kind of where do you, what do you, what draw, like, what is the thing where you see us, you know, like where you're at a point where like, man, this is what I'm really proud of. And this is where I see us going because, you know, we're all on this bus together going somewhere and we don't exactly know where we're going. Cause it's the future. Yeah.
it's not a goal, but kind of where do you, what do you, what draw, like, what is the thing where you see us, you know, like where you're at a point where like, man, this is what I'm really proud of. And this is where I see us going because, you know, we're all on this bus together going somewhere and we don't exactly know where we're going. Cause it's the future. Yeah.
it's not a goal, but kind of where do you, what do you, what draw, like, what is the thing where you see us, you know, like where you're at a point where like, man, this is what I'm really proud of. And this is where I see us going because, you know, we're all on this bus together going somewhere and we don't exactly know where we're going. Cause it's the future. Yeah.
But you're kind of, you're kind of one of the guys driving the bus, you know, or at least riding shotgun. So it's like, where are we going? Yeah.
But you're kind of, you're kind of one of the guys driving the bus, you know, or at least riding shotgun. So it's like, where are we going? Yeah.
But you're kind of, you're kind of one of the guys driving the bus, you know, or at least riding shotgun. So it's like, where are we going? Yeah.
I know we didn't get into, sorry.
I know we didn't get into, sorry.
I know we didn't get into, sorry.
It's crazy how fast it's happening too. That's what I'm amazed at is just how fast it's happening. But do you think, like, do you envision this, like, are you just like, like, what do you envision that will be on these like surfboards? Do you have like a, like kind of like a utopian idea or do like, I just wonder how do you see things?
It's crazy how fast it's happening too. That's what I'm amazed at is just how fast it's happening. But do you think, like, do you envision this, like, are you just like, like, what do you envision that will be on these like surfboards? Do you have like a, like kind of like a utopian idea or do like, I just wonder how do you see things?
It's crazy how fast it's happening too. That's what I'm amazed at is just how fast it's happening. But do you think, like, do you envision this, like, are you just like, like, what do you envision that will be on these like surfboards? Do you have like a, like kind of like a utopian idea or do like, I just wonder how do you see things?
Cause you're the only, like, you're probably one of the smartest people to ever use thought, right? I don't know.
Cause you're the only, like, you're probably one of the smartest people to ever use thought, right? I don't know.
Cause you're the only, like, you're probably one of the smartest people to ever use thought, right? I don't know.
Well, that we, you know, are one of the most unique people to ever use thought that we have in our time. So it's like, how do you, what is it, what is it like out there?
Well, that we, you know, are one of the most unique people to ever use thought that we have in our time. So it's like, how do you, what is it, what is it like out there?
Well, that we, you know, are one of the most unique people to ever use thought that we have in our time. So it's like, how do you, what is it, what is it like out there?
Um, so you might be up like leveling up in an overall idea of creativity in the universe with AI. Yeah.
Um, so you might be up like leveling up in an overall idea of creativity in the universe with AI. Yeah.
Um, so you might be up like leveling up in an overall idea of creativity in the universe with AI. Yeah.
It's almost like universal basic technology kind of in a way.
It's almost like universal basic technology kind of in a way.
It's almost like universal basic technology kind of in a way.
So it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice is how you see that, like just kind of that sort of thing.
So it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice is how you see that, like just kind of that sort of thing.
So it's not as much a conviction as much as it is a space of choice is how you see that, like just kind of that sort of thing.
It's not like you're convicted to this sort of future as we advance. It's just a space of choice. If you still want to be able to do these things, you can do those. And if you want to be able to do these things, you can do those. There you are on the bus right there.
It's not like you're convicted to this sort of future as we advance. It's just a space of choice. If you still want to be able to do these things, you can do those. And if you want to be able to do these things, you can do those. There you are on the bus right there.
It's not like you're convicted to this sort of future as we advance. It's just a space of choice. If you still want to be able to do these things, you can do those. And if you want to be able to do these things, you can do those. There you are on the bus right there.
I do not think that is good. I do not think that is good.
I do not think that is good. I do not think that is good.
I do not think that is good. I do not think that is good.
Thank you for telling us that, though. It's horrible AI. Yeah, I think that was open AI, dude, so sorry about that. Do you think you'll live forever, Mark?
Thank you for telling us that, though. It's horrible AI. Yeah, I think that was open AI, dude, so sorry about that. Do you think you'll live forever, Mark?
Thank you for telling us that, though. It's horrible AI. Yeah, I think that was open AI, dude, so sorry about that. Do you think you'll live forever, Mark?
Like you, when you, because you have an understanding of like science and being human, that is, that is way supersedes a lot of people's. Do you, do you think it's possible that we could figure that out?
Like you, when you, because you have an understanding of like science and being human, that is, that is way supersedes a lot of people's. Do you, do you think it's possible that we could figure that out?
Like you, when you, because you have an understanding of like science and being human, that is, that is way supersedes a lot of people's. Do you, do you think it's possible that we could figure that out?
To be able to live, to keep life. Do you think it's possible we could figure out how to do it?
To be able to live, to keep life. Do you think it's possible we could figure out how to do it?
To be able to live, to keep life. Do you think it's possible we could figure out how to do it?
She didn't know because we don't know. We don't know what's going on, Mark, and we just want you to tell us.
She didn't know because we don't know. We don't know what's going on, Mark, and we just want you to tell us.
She didn't know because we don't know. We don't know what's going on, Mark, and we just want you to tell us.
I think people don't know that AI can do that. I think we're missing quickly, I think, in educating people how to – what AI is and how to use it. I think I notice even in my own life, and I spend a lot of time online involved in stuff, but I think people are not understanding what's going on.
I think people don't know that AI can do that. I think we're missing quickly, I think, in educating people how to – what AI is and how to use it. I think I notice even in my own life, and I spend a lot of time online involved in stuff, but I think people are not understanding what's going on.
I think people don't know that AI can do that. I think we're missing quickly, I think, in educating people how to – what AI is and how to use it. I think I notice even in my own life, and I spend a lot of time online involved in stuff, but I think people are not understanding what's going on.
So I don't know how we get people educated quickly so that they can – I think whoever can also serve people the best way to educate themselves is going to be able to best exert or – be able to best coagulate people to their AI model or whatever. I've never heard coagulate used that way. Yeah, or something like that. Because that's the big thing.
So I don't know how we get people educated quickly so that they can – I think whoever can also serve people the best way to educate themselves is going to be able to best exert or – be able to best coagulate people to their AI model or whatever. I've never heard coagulate used that way. Yeah, or something like that. Because that's the big thing.
So I don't know how we get people educated quickly so that they can – I think whoever can also serve people the best way to educate themselves is going to be able to best exert or – be able to best coagulate people to their AI model or whatever. I've never heard coagulate used that way. Yeah, or something like that. Because that's the big thing.
A lot of people are like, we have the best AI, but most people are like, what the hell? What are we doing? You know what I'm saying?
A lot of people are like, we have the best AI, but most people are like, what the hell? What are we doing? You know what I'm saying?
A lot of people are like, we have the best AI, but most people are like, what the hell? What are we doing? You know what I'm saying?
So anyway, sorry. I think I kept you longer than we were supposed to, but... Yeah. Sorry. We got into a lot of technological stuff. I think it's just kind of like, you know, we don't know what's happening. And sometimes we want to talk, we get to talk to somebody like you and it's important, you know?
So anyway, sorry. I think I kept you longer than we were supposed to, but... Yeah. Sorry. We got into a lot of technological stuff. I think it's just kind of like, you know, we don't know what's happening. And sometimes we want to talk, we get to talk to somebody like you and it's important, you know?
So anyway, sorry. I think I kept you longer than we were supposed to, but... Yeah. Sorry. We got into a lot of technological stuff. I think it's just kind of like, you know, we don't know what's happening. And sometimes we want to talk, we get to talk to somebody like you and it's important, you know?
Yeah, man. I enjoyed it too, man. Um, yeah. Thanks for sharing just some of what your life is like with this. And, um, just, I hope that, yeah, just keep, make sure we stay alive or whatever we're supposed to and just keep taking, working on it. Okay. That's all we can ask for now, sir. Awesome. Mark. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, man. I enjoyed it too, man. Um, yeah. Thanks for sharing just some of what your life is like with this. And, um, just, I hope that, yeah, just keep, make sure we stay alive or whatever we're supposed to and just keep taking, working on it. Okay. That's all we can ask for now, sir. Awesome. Mark. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, man. I enjoyed it too, man. Um, yeah. Thanks for sharing just some of what your life is like with this. And, um, just, I hope that, yeah, just keep, make sure we stay alive or whatever we're supposed to and just keep taking, working on it. Okay. That's all we can ask for now, sir. Awesome. Mark. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah.
Like the muse in a way.
Like the muse in a way.
Like the muse in a way.
I also want to say a thank you to the people at Grace Dental. That's Grace Dental in Palo Alto, California. They glued my tooth was broken and they glued it back together before the interview today. So I'm thankful that they helped and I'm grateful that I got to meet them. Thanks.
I also want to say a thank you to the people at Grace Dental. That's Grace Dental in Palo Alto, California. They glued my tooth was broken and they glued it back together before the interview today. So I'm thankful that they helped and I'm grateful that I got to meet them. Thanks.
I also want to say a thank you to the people at Grace Dental. That's Grace Dental in Palo Alto, California. They glued my tooth was broken and they glued it back together before the interview today. So I'm thankful that they helped and I'm grateful that I got to meet them. Thanks.
I'm thankful to spend time and get to know Mr. Mark Zuckerberg. Shout! You drink coffee, man, or no?
I'm thankful to spend time and get to know Mr. Mark Zuckerberg. Shout! You drink coffee, man, or no?
I'm thankful to spend time and get to know Mr. Mark Zuckerberg. Shout! You drink coffee, man, or no?
And, um. And at least you can tell the doordash guy, like, just set it by the sculpture.
And, um. And at least you can tell the doordash guy, like, just set it by the sculpture.
And, um. And at least you can tell the doordash guy, like, just set it by the sculpture.
Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of nice. It becomes like a, um. Yeah. And I think having, like, a woman as your lookout in your yard is kind of nice, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of nice. It becomes like a, um. Yeah. And I think having, like, a woman as your lookout in your yard is kind of nice, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of nice. It becomes like a, um. Yeah. And I think having, like, a woman as your lookout in your yard is kind of nice, you know?
Did she make you make any adjustments to it, or was she like, okay, I'll accept it as is? Um.
Did she make you make any adjustments to it, or was she like, okay, I'll accept it as is? Um.
Did she make you make any adjustments to it, or was she like, okay, I'll accept it as is? Um.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess creative stuff like that, trying to be creative and show her some creativity. Oh, that's nice. There you go. I mean, look at that.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess creative stuff like that, trying to be creative and show her some creativity. Oh, that's nice. There you go. I mean, look at that.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess creative stuff like that, trying to be creative and show her some creativity. Oh, that's nice. There you go. I mean, look at that.
Okay. And where were you in school at, Mark? Harvard. Okay.
Okay. And where were you in school at, Mark? Harvard. Okay.
Okay. And where were you in school at, Mark? Harvard. Okay.
You had nothing to lose. It was your last meal.
You had nothing to lose. It was your last meal.
You had nothing to lose. It was your last meal.
Well, it's a limited time offer.
Well, it's a limited time offer.
Well, it's a limited time offer.
It's like, yeah, I guess another way to look at it is very sail rack in a way, you know.
It's like, yeah, I guess another way to look at it is very sail rack in a way, you know.
It's like, yeah, I guess another way to look at it is very sail rack in a way, you know.
But half of a smart ass also is smart. Yeah. So that's good. I'll take that. Yeah. It's better than being a dumbass. Yeah.
But half of a smart ass also is smart. Yeah. So that's good. I'll take that. Yeah. It's better than being a dumbass. Yeah.
But half of a smart ass also is smart. Yeah. So that's good. I'll take that. Yeah. It's better than being a dumbass. Yeah.
Yeah. I'd rather be a smartass, I think. Do you know about what was a prank site? What was it? That wasn't Facebook, though.
Yeah. I'd rather be a smartass, I think. Do you know about what was a prank site? What was it? That wasn't Facebook, though.
Yeah. I'd rather be a smartass, I think. Do you know about what was a prank site? What was it? That wasn't Facebook, though.
So you like being creative.
So you like being creative.
So you like being creative.
That's fair, not your best work, you know? Not my best work. Yeah, we've all had things we made that weren't, you know, that weren't the best probably. Did you, let me think what I'm going to ask you. Oh, did you... What kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive?
That's fair, not your best work, you know? Not my best work. Yeah, we've all had things we made that weren't, you know, that weren't the best probably. Did you, let me think what I'm going to ask you. Oh, did you... What kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive?
That's fair, not your best work, you know? Not my best work. Yeah, we've all had things we made that weren't, you know, that weren't the best probably. Did you, let me think what I'm going to ask you. Oh, did you... What kind of car do you drive? What kind of car do you drive?
Oh, God, that's nice.
Oh, God, that's nice.
Oh, God, that's nice.
That thing will just shift. That thing just gets shifty out there.
That thing will just shift. That thing just gets shifty out there.
That thing will just shift. That thing just gets shifty out there.
It's got a nice little S on it.
It's got a nice little S on it.
It's got a nice little S on it.
Just like a, yeah, it's like a, like a celebration.
Just like a, yeah, it's like a, like a celebration.
Just like a, yeah, it's like a, like a celebration.
It's probably a rule of a very rich thumb.
It's probably a rule of a very rich thumb.
It's probably a rule of a very rich thumb.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
This special series from The Verge is presented by Adobe Express.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression.
Hey, everyone. I want to talk about something important today because it's time to get back to our roots around free expression.
So we're gonna get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
So we're gonna get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
So we're gonna get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.
After Trump first got elected in 2016, the legacy media wrote nonstop about how misinformation was a threat to democracy.
After Trump first got elected in 2016, the legacy media wrote nonstop about how misinformation was a threat to democracy.
After Trump first got elected in 2016, the legacy media wrote nonstop about how misinformation was a threat to democracy.
And that's why it's been so difficult over the past four years when even the U.S. government has pushed for censorship.
And that's why it's been so difficult over the past four years when even the U.S. government has pushed for censorship.
And that's why it's been so difficult over the past four years when even the U.S. government has pushed for censorship.
And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
And we've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship. The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.