Larison Campbell
Appearances
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
You know, and I try to encourage him to stay out of trouble.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information. When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Bone Valley
Jeremy | Chapter 1 - You Told Me No
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: The Rudy Of Dating
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: The Rudy Of Dating
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: The Rudy Of Dating
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: The Rudy Of Dating
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Pre-Block
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Pre-Block
Brooke and Jeffrey in the morning. In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Pre-Block
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Pre-Block
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Boob Tube Experiment
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ruin A Birthday
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: He Saw What He Saw
A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: He Saw What He Saw
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: He Saw What He Saw
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Secrets In Ink
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Secrets In Ink
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ex-Expectations
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Awkward Tuesday: Ex-Expectations
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Got the Ick
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Got the Ick
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Really? Well, guess what? This city isn't that big. I'll see you around, buddy. Oh, that's a threat. Oh, Godfather.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Oh! Okay, that's fine. That's cool. I'm not going to. But, hey, ladies, Victor, don't date him.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Hi. Yes, I do understand.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
No, it's not even like that. Like, I like this guy.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
So his name is Victor. I met him online, and he really looked so nice. He had a really nice beard.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Yeah. Yes. It was really nice. So, we went on three dates. Three?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Wow. Okay. Well, listen. The first two, they went really well. Okay, so.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
So the first day, we showed up in matching outfits first.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
No, this was like, it was an accident.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Yeah, floral prints. Yeah. It was like white tops, brown bottoms, and white shoes.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Oh, so like we just went for a drink. Okay. It was a really good time. So he's like, look, let's go for a second one, right? So we did something fun again, just drinks, nothing too heavy.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
We were just wearing different clothes on that second date.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Yeah, so we decided to go a little more upscale for the third date.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
We did dinner at this fancy restaurant. It was really nice.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
So, like, I had got there first. And in order, you know, to get seated, you have to have a credit card on sale with the host. So I put my credit card down so we wouldn't lose the table. Okay. You know, he was running a little late. Okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
I don't know. No, it wasn't that late. It was, like, he was about, like, 15 to 20 minutes.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Yeah, everything is fine. And then, like, the bill comes, and the waiter's like, hey, should I just go ahead and run the credit card that's on the file? Oh. Uh-oh, that's your card.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Well, like, he just looking, like, stupid. Um... The waiter or Victor your date?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
He's making it awkward because he's very hesitant and he knows that my card is on fire.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
He paid for them, but, I mean, he's the guy, so. Yeah.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
So because things is just so weird and awkward and the waiter just standing there looking at both of us, I'm like, well, just go ahead and run my card. Okay. Once the waiter walked away, he was like, well, your card is already on file. So, you know, we should just make it less of a headache for the waiter.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Oh, weird. And the bill was over $200. Oh, what?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Oh, okay. But I'm like, whatever. I'm like, I'm not tripping about it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
But, like, after that date, we haven't really been talking as much. Like, at first, I felt like he was really putting pressure on me and keeping in contact. I'm like, when am I going to see you again type of thing. Yeah. But, like, since that date, everything slowed down a lot, and I really don't know why.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Yeah. And if he doesn't want to see me again, I feel like he needs to run me my money. Like, he needs to pay for half of the date. Dang. Oh, wow.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Oh, God. Yes. If he says yes, I don't care because we'll probably go to more fancy restaurants and then he'll pay. Yeah.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Absolutely not. He should have never thought that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Hey, Victor. Hey, Ari. How are you doing? I'm doing great. But, yeah, like I heard everything that you said.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Yeah, like you already said that. You keep saying it over and over, nervous or something.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
I'm not nervous at all.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Well, you should be. You should be nervous because I'm not with none of that. Like, I'm not part of your starting lineup, buddy. I don't know what you think you got going on here, but, like, we've been on three dates, so you should have, like, some type of idea, like, whether you want to take this further or not. I don't care about you being new to a city, like...
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
I'm not one of your little flings. I don't move like that.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Tell me the names of the girls you've been dating. Who are they?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
No, bro, you're saying it again. He's like reading a script. I feel like that's a BS excuse. I feel like that's a BS excuse.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Yeah, or maybe he just wanted a free meal that night because I paid, remember? I knew this was coming out. Here we go. Since you don't want to, like, you don't really care to, like, go on another date or whatever, I'm fine with that. You need to go ahead and pay me up half for that dinner. So you need to go ahead and, like, Venmo me half of that bill.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
I have the receipt if you need me to text you a picture of it. And you can put it down the middle and send me your half.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
and a whole steak meal appetizer. You had a four-course meal.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
Oh, no, it's definitely okay if I'm asking. He's a man. A real man wouldn't even have let me pay. You should have pulled out your credit card. Let's start there.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Offer He Can't Refuse
No. No. Absolutely not. Running me my money back would be a thank you. Okay. I don't think she's going to drop it, Victor.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: Incriminating News At 11
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
It was my family's mystery.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update Classic: I Brought My Mom
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Just A Little Short
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Just A Little Short
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Ex-Aversary
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: V-Day Pass Out
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: V-Day Pass Out
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Dragon Thumbs and Aroma Chums
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Dragon Thumbs and Aroma Chums
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery. 7,000 bodies out there or more. All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery. 7,000 bodies out there or more. All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
8 | The Rear View Mirror
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
4 | Keeper Of A House Of Prostitution
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
3 | Coming Clean
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
7,000 bodies out there or more? All former patients of the old state asylum.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
7,000 bodies out there, or more. All former patients of the old state asylum.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets. Nobody talks about it.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
6 | Fire In The Sky
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery. 7,000 bodies out there, or more. All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets. 7,000 bodies out there. Or more. A forgotten asylum cemetery.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery. 7,000 bodies out there, or more. All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
2 | The Ties That Bind Us
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
1 | Give Me Your F**kin Money
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
5 | Bully
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
5 | Bully
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
5 | Bully
Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
5 | Bully
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
5 | Bully
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
5 | Bully
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Crook County
5 | Bully
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
Crook County
5 | Bully
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
Crook County
5 | Bully
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
Crook County
5 | Bully
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and And it's got a reputation. It's terrible, terrible dirt. Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
Shame. Guilt. Propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep. Until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried. Until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
All former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
But in this corner of the South, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.
My Friend Daisy
Episode 3 - Smile Now, Cry Later
I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazoo Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
They'd been starved, tortured, and sexually assaulted. From that day forward, she became a tireless advocate for better treatment for people with mental illness.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
In Mississippi, she presented the state legislature with the findings from a study she'd done. She told them how Mississippians with mental illness were living in poverty and all alone, often, quote, "...chained in closets and attics, in jails or dungeons." Mississippi lawmakers were blown away. They appropriated the full amount requested, $50,000 for the construction of a new state asylum.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
And then they made their first mistake because they picked a site right at the thickest part of that Yazoo clay. The foundation was laid and then relayed. More building delays, more structural problems. The Mississippi State Lunatic Asylum finally opened its doors more than $125,000 over that initial budget.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
But it was a beautiful neoclassical building with a 35-foot tall portico supported by six Doric columns visible all the way down to Fortification Street about a mile away. It had a capacity for 250 patients. Remember that number. The grandiosity of the architecture speaks to the grand plans Mississippi had for the place. This wasn't a warehouse for the community's problems.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Warehouses don't get columns and cupolas. This was a place that would cure people. After all, this was the era of rapidly evolving medical treatment. In the 19th century, doctors began to link dirt and filth with disease. Cities began installing sewage and sanitation systems. Germs themselves still hadn't been discovered, but concepts of germ theory were there.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
A smallpox vaccine, cholera's connection to contaminated water. Science was beginning to conquer physical maladies. Why should disease of the mind be any different? There's something else we haven't told you about Dorothea Dix. Something that probably helped her connect with lawmakers in the antebellum South.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
And when Black patients were admitted, their quality of care was substantially lower.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
meaning these facilities for the Black patients, they never even tried to adhere to the Kirkbride plan, which was the whole reason the asylum was built in the first place. In order for the, quote, curative properties of the Kirkbride model to work, the patients need physical space. Big private rooms, fresh air, careful attention from doctors and nurses.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
We're standing in a hallway at the Mississippi State Hospital at Whitfield, one of a handful of state-run residential mental health facilities still operating here. It's my first time really seeing the hospital, but I've heard about it my whole life. Everyone in Mississippi has.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
And if patients aren't recovering enough to be released, it creates a backlog, crowding. And then even the patients who could have been helped by the Kirkbride plan are no longer getting better. Part of the reason for the overcrowding? Many of the people living and dying at the old asylum weren't mentally ill. That's after the break.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
The largest art museum in the state, the Mississippi Museum of Art connects Mississippi to the world and the power of art to the power of community. Located in downtown Jackson, the museum's permanent collection is free to the public. National and international exhibitions rotate throughout the year, allowing visitors to experience works from around the world.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
The gardens and expansive lawn at the Mississippi Museum of Art are home to art installations and a variety of events for all ages. Plan your visit today at msmuseumart.org. That's msmuseumart.org.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
While at the Whitfield Museum, my producer Rebecca and I came across a giant ledger, easily five inches thick with hundreds of pages. Each page was a list of names, then census details like gender, age, race, written in neat cursive, along with the reason each patient was admitted.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Put you out. Whitfield. That's the informal name for the Mississippi State Hospital. It's been Mississippi's primary mental health facility since 1935, when the state shuttered the old asylum in Jackson and moved those patients out here. It's that place your mom says you'll go if you don't act right, the place your friend's neighbor got sent. It has mythic status in Mississippi.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Religion is one. There's religion down there, too. Yeah. Grief, fright, PMS, religion? These were some of the causes for institutionalization noted during patient intakes. With so many possible reasons for admission, maybe it's no surprise that the place got overcrowded.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
One of the cards Mississippi got dealt? A disease called pellagra. You heard about it from Wayne Lee, the grave dowser. It's that nutritional deficiency that killed his grandfather.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Palagra was not only an epidemic. For decades, it remained a medical mystery with a geographic preference, the Southeast. By the late 1930s, 3 million Americans total had contracted Palagra, most of them Southerners. Mississippi was ground zero of the Palagra epidemic, which is why a doctor named Joseph Goldberger headed there to study it in 1914. Dr. Goldberger was a physician with the U.S.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Hygienic Laboratory, the progenitor of today's National Institutes of Health.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
See, Mississippi's old asylum might have begun life in the wealthiest state in the country. But by the 1920s, Mississippi had assumed a position we're all familiar with, the country's poorest.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Southern doctors found Goldberger's evidence offensive. I mean, here was this Jewish doctor from New York City parachuting in just to embarrass a whole region by calling them poor? Goldberger had figured out that brewer's yeast, the stuff you use to make beer, could send pellagra packing.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
But standing here in a marble room full of outdated therapy equipment, Whitfield's not scary. It's quaint. at least in the museum. Hard to say how much of that is because of our tour guides, Donna Brown and Kathy Denton. These two have been here for decades and know everything about the place. Donna took the lead with Kathy chiming in.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
But a solution wouldn't be implemented at any scale until years later, during one of the greatest natural disasters in U.S. history, the 1927 Mississippi River floods. Hundreds of thousands of people lost their homes. Tent cities sprung up along levees from Memphis all the way down to Louisiana. And off of Goldberger's advice, the Red Cross began adding brewer's yeast to its food rations.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
This understanding of pellagra's progression complicates the narrative we're inclined to jump to when it comes to the old asylum.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Counterintuitively, in terms of preventative medicine, aka diet, the old asylum might have been one of the better places in the state. Stay with me here. The asylum's 1,300 acres included a farm. And it wasn't just any old thing. It was an award winner, one that people came from all around just to see.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
You see the farm's bounty laid out in the superintendent's biannual reports to the legislature, which, to be fair, were always trying to paint the asylum in the best possible light. Still, between June of 1911 and July of 1913, which was just a couple of years before Dr. Goldberger was sent down to Mississippi, the vegetable garden alone spanned about 60 acres.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
All of this maintained, of course, by the patients themselves. But many pellagra patients arrived too far gone for diet to do much good.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
The death rate for Pelagra was incredible. I mean, we've got it. It wiped out entire swaths of the South. And we've also got a handle on the four Ds, the last two of which are dementia and death. Pelagra patients who were sent to the asylum were already on death's door when they arrived.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Now, overlay this information with the asylum's high death rates, with patient stays of just a few months before those patients passed. To be clear, I'm not saying that the old asylum was a rose-tinged haven, altruistic to its core. Neither is Lyda.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
This context really complicated my understanding of the old asylum. In a lot of ways, intentionally or not, the asylum was more like a hospice for many of its patients. You can't just draw a straight line from the high death rates to mistreatment. Poor medical care, poor treatment, those things happened. but there's zigzags along the way.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
I notice a black and white photo of a woman in what looks like a shower.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
There's no way for us to know why those stories didn't get passed down. Could be it's shame, or could be it's just too mundane to enter the family lore. I mean, I can't imagine sitting my kids down to tell them about their great uncle's time and physical therapy.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
And maybe those success stories are what helped family members at the time make peace with the choice to send their loved ones to the old asylum. Because remember, patients were rarely the ones admitting themselves. Somewhere along the line, someone made the decision that they were better off in the asylum.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Maybe it was law enforcement, the judicial system, or maybe it was family members grasping at straws.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
It's a quirky museum. There's a display of patient-run newspapers and literary magazines. And then, around the corner, posters for movies where Whitfield makes a cameo, including the Sandra Bullock classic, A Time to Kill.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Part of the museum is housed in one of Whitfield's old hydrotherapy units. Hydrotherapy basically means using water as medical treatment for physical or mental health. If you've ever taken a dip at a spa, you've had hydrotherapy.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
I love this. It's what Dr. Didlake has been talking about, that Southern ethos, that reverence for the grave, has been with this cemetery from the beginning.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Back in the day, it was on the bleeding edge of mental health care. Woodfield's hydrotherapy unit consisted of several rooms of white marble from the floor all the way up to the ceiling. And the kind of porcelain sinks and claw-footed tubs that an HGTV host would kill for.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Dr. Mack leads us over to a pair of brown shoes that look almost like they've been sculpted from dirt.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
But sometimes the value of the objects doesn't require so much guesswork.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
She holds up a gold ring. I lean in and notice there's an inscription.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
It's one of those objects that doesn't just point to the life that patients lived inside the asylum, but the life they had lived on the outside. I could tell from the way Dr. Mack looked at this ring, the way she held it, that it was unique. It seemed personal. And then I remembered something I'd noticed when we walked in that day. A tattoo on Dr. Mack's foot. May I ask about your tattoo?
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
And so Dr. Mack continues working on the Asylum Hill site, uncovering new artifacts and new stories of the last people who touched them. There's a forward motion through the grief, That seemed to be a through line for each of the descendants we spoke with as well. Even if what you learn isn't positive, there's catharsis in discovery.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
All this born out of a place we associate with shadows, shame, and secrecy. And still, this is a place that defies definition. And it should. It should.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
And if there's one thing we know about Lyda and the rest of the Asylum Hill Project, they're going to err on the side of respect. For Dr. West, going beyond those broad brushstrokes is key. Brushing the dirt off her great-uncle Hillman's story finally gave her insight to her own grandfather.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Thousands more stories, all waiting to be uncovered and waiting to be found. And what does it mean to find someone... And once they've been found, what then? Will they fade back into the rusted orange of the Yazoo clay? Will Jackson make space for them? That's next on Under Yazoo Clay.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Under Yazoo Clay is executive produced by the Mississippi Museum of Art in partnership with Pod People. It's hosted by me, Larison Campbell, and written and produced by Rebecca Chasson and myself, with help from Angela Yee and Amy Machado, with editing and sound design by Morgan Foose and Erica Wong. And thanks to Blue Dot Sessions for music.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
If you've seen one flew over the cuckoo's nest, it's easy to imagine a sadistic nurse ratchet gleefully blasting patients into submission. But the first antipsychotic drug wasn't introduced until the 1950s, nearly 100 years after Mississippi opened its original state asylum. Donna tells us that the doctors of that era really believed that this was an effective treatment.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Special thanks to Betsy Bradley at the Mississippi Museum of Art, as well as Lyda Gibson at the Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities at the University of Mississippi Medical Center. Visit Jackson and Jay and Dini Stein.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Donna waved us toward another room. This one was almost like a grotto with a big slab smack dab in the middle, like an altar. That's where the patients would be placed.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
I wish Theodore Retke were still around because I'd love to ask him about that last line. Is it sarcastic? Or did he really feel like an ice bath restored his sanity? Was he just hoping that it would? The more I've listened, the more I hear irony in I soon will be myself again. But maybe that's because of the place asylums have come to occupy in my or really in the American imagination.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
It's a place of broken promises. You're supposed to get better, but in most stories I've read, most movies I've seen, the opposite happens. Maybe that's why there's such a popular setting for horror films. That may be the narrative we have today, but it's not the one the asylum started with. The promise of the old asylum was that it was a place for healing.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
But over one-third of the patients who passed through the old asylum's doors died within them.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
So how exactly did this promise break? I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. When word got out back in 2012 that thousands of bodies had been found at the site of Mississippi's old asylum, the news spread fast.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
It hit that viral sweet spot, a horror movie in one headline. Not just confirming our dark expectations, but exceeding them. Its death and drama in the Old South and a lunatic asylum all balled into one. What ends up is the Southern Gothic, the terrain of terror. That's Mab Segrist, Southern scholar and historical author.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Mab spent more than 15 years researching and studying Georgia's Milledgeville Asylum. Because this isn't just a Mississippi story. Many states had asylums, in and out of the South. But the terrain of terror that Mab's describing? That's not the way things started out for our old asylum.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
That Enlightenment she mentions is the Enlightenment, that glowing moment of philosophy and reason in Europe between the 17th and 19th centuries. Eventually, these ideals made their way across the pond. Until people were enlightened, society's primary solution for dealing with severe mental illness was simple. Isolation or restraint. Sometimes both.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
That could mean the family home, behind a locked door in a back room, or if you're a first wife of Victorian literature, in the attic. For those whose families couldn't care for them, there were public almshouses and the county jail. How far we've come. Physical restraints were common. Sanitation standards, nonexistent. Dungeons were a real thing. The goal here?
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
Separate the ill person from the non-ill community. But as enlightenment ideas called on, as medicine and science became more robust, doctors began to argue that mental illness was a problem society could actually solve.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
It was a revolutionary idea. Change a person's outside environment, and they'll change internally. But in practical terms, what does the infrastructure of calm, quietude look like? In the 1840s, a physician in Philadelphia came up with an answer.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
That was Lyda Gibson, coordinator of the Asylum Hill Project. Thomas Kirkbride would later formalize his plan into a magnum opus with a magnum title, on the construction, organization, and general arrangements of hospitals for the insane, with some remarks on insanity and its treatment. He was specific. The plan included exact staff numbers, roles, and even salaries.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
He drew up measurements for rooms and windows and the space between windows, down to the inch.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
The first was in Trenton, New Jersey. Other states followed. The Mississippi State Lunatic Asylum was one of the first dozen in the country and the first Kirkbride Hospital in the Deep South. Just to ground you in the timeline real quick, the Mississippi State Lunatic Asylum opened its doors in 1855. It had taken five years to complete at a cost of $175,000.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
That's about $7 million in today's money. If this level of benevolence and generosity for Mississippians with mental illness seems out of character for a state government whose focus was keeping slavery legal, don't worry. The decision to build this asylum to look after, quote, less fortunate Mississippians does not buck the narrative you've come to know. Let's say it's the 1850s.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
You're a Mississippi lawmaker trying to put a shine on an image badly tarnished by, I don't know, your refusal to stop treating humans like chattel. Maybe investing in this monument to those Enlightenment ideals of individual liberty, natural rights, and the social contract starts to seem like a good way to thumb your nose at all those Yankees crying about the immorality of slavery.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
And that's exactly what a nurse named Dorothea Dix was banking on. You've probably heard her name before, because Dix almost single-handedly created the first generation of state asylums. In the 1840s, Dorothea Dix turned Kirkbride's asylum plan into something of a roadshow, lobbying state legislatures in the North and the South to build these hospitals.
Under Yazoo Clay
Ever True to Thee
She began her career as a teacher. But on March 28, 1841, the 35-year-old went to teach a Sunday school class at East Cambridge House of Corrections in Massachusetts. There, she found groups of women experiencing psychiatric conditions. They were chained in dirty, unheated cells. Many had never committed a crime but were locked up with violent felons.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
That afternoon at the museum, one of the southeast legendary spring thunderstorms rolled in as Noah walked me through his painting. I guess we'll start in the first section of the panels.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
In the South, we're big fans of parables. There's something comforting in knowing how a story will be told, knowing the paths and the endings of all the characters. Family stories aren't all that different. With each telling, the beats of the story get etched into the family history. But what about when someone decides to buck tradition?
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
In many ways, it's a visual biography of Dr. Smith's life, from birth to burial. Dr. Smith was raised in Louisiana by a single mother, and he put himself through optometry school. One of Dr. Smith's earliest patients was a man named Gerard Brandon. a lawyer who loomed large in the Natchez social scene. More importantly, Gerard had a beautiful daughter, Ethel.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
The young couple moved up the river to Vicksburg. They were happy. These were the years when Ethel would write to her family about how she and her husband teased each other. But even in the rosy glow of young love, Noah's great-grandfather may have had his own secrets that he kept from his wife.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
Being a fully functioning professional optometrist looked a little different in the rural south of the 1920s. There wasn't quite enough business for a brick-and-mortar shop, so Dr. Smith took his services on the road.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
It was cutting edge, the talk of the town wherever he went. He even got it patented. Dr. Smith and Ethel had four kids. He might have been away much of the time, but it was clear his kids loved him. And he loved them. Noah's mother told us a story about how her own mother, Margaret, kept a pair of glasses he'd made for her as a child. She didn't need them. She just liked them.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
And so he made them for her. Noah's work devotes a good bit of square footage to this period of Dr. Smith's life. His optometry truck, rural Mississippi and Louisiana, images of a growing family. In one part, he stands in a white shirt and vest, facing left, towards his past. as the reflection of the sun makes his glasses opaque.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
In the distance behind him, a small child, a carriage, and a loose, barely discernible sketch resembling a woman. In the story of Dr. Smith's life, as his madness takes up more and more of the foreground, something, someone, fades to the back. His family.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
At this point, a gaggle of museum-goers had started trailing behind us, listening. Noah pointed to a square near the top. Everyone leaned in, hands behind their back, doing that polite museum squint. The image he pointed out is small, well, in the context of this massive painting. Just one two-by-two-foot square. There's a neat white house.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
After Noah's walkthrough, my producer and I tucked ourselves away in a museum office with Noah, his sister Jessica, and his mom Anna. Remember, this project wasn't just academic. This was Noah's great-grandfather, a man whose absence festered in the family he left behind. especially for Noah's grandmother, Anna's mother, Margaret.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
After Dr. Smith's breakdown, his wife and children didn't stay in that neat White House. His father-in-law Gerard arrived and whisked the family back home to Natchez. Gerard's home was a quiet one. That Victorian sensibility of children should be seen and not heard applied to everyone. A house of decorum was in some ways the perfect antidote to the chaotic last years with Dr. Smith.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
But a house of decorum isn't a place where you could ask questions. For the first year after Dr. Smith was gone, a photograph of him remained on the mantle at her grandparents. Margaret often stared at it. It was all she had of her dad.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
Margaret grew up, had children of her own. Gerard Brandon's decorum? No outbursts, no questions, no curiosity. Found a place in her home, with her children. Gerard took his place as a titan in the family mythos. Here's Anna again, Noah's mother.
Under Yazoo Clay
Not Where We Go
For a family interested less in the real world than in their own created reality, perhaps there was no better community than Natchez, Mississippi. This small town of a few thousand sits on a bluff overlooking the river. Before the Civil War, it was home to more millionaires per capita than any other in the United States, because it was also home to the country's second largest slave market.
Under Yazoo Clay
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Many of those grand homes still stand, although the area is now among the poorest in the country. Regardless of present circumstances, this ideal of Confederate glory still shapes the way residents talk. The writer Richard Grant has this quote, "'In Natchez, you only use the word home if it's antebellum. If your house was built after the Civil War, it's trashy to call it a home.'"
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Still, even in Natchez, people build new houses. They buck tradition. There were times Noah's grandmother let her tried and true composure slide. But it was so rare, both he and his sister Jessica remember each one.
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You can hear, even in how these three talk to one another, they've put in the work to build relationships founded on sincerity and honesty, not shame and silence. But anyone with a family knows it's hard to break patterns, even when you want to. The thing is, it wasn't just Noah's breakdown that harkened back to his great-grandfather's generation. It's how he talked about it. or how he didn't.
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Noah's breakdown was in 2001, and his grandmother Margaret lived until 2014.
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For more than two decades, Noah's only sibling didn't know he spent six months unsure if his life was even real. The tight-lipped ethos ran so deep that Noah didn't even realize he was carrying it out.
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Noah's grandmother Margaret spent that energy, kept that tight hold, for better or worse, all her life. Her family thinks Noah's exhibit would have caused her a world of conflict if she'd lived to see it.
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I'm hearing the story of Dunstan and the Devil from Noah Satterstrom. He's the artist whose paintings about his great-grandfather were the focus of a major show at the Mississippi Museum of Art. It's a Saturday in April, the morning after the show's opening. He's energetic today as he walks me through his work. 183 canvases that tell the story of his great-grandfather, Dr. David L. Smith.
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Stephen King has this great quote, "'Nothing is so frightening as what's behind the closed door.'" It reminds me of what Noah was saying about his breakdown, that maybe if he'd known more about his great-grandfather, he would have been less afraid for himself. No one worries about monsters in a brightly lit room.
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And then, two weeks before the show went up, just as Noah was shipping paintings from his Nashville studio down to the museum in Jackson, someone cut on the lights, so to speak.
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We're talking about Dunstan because the parable also makes an appearance in one of these paintings. Right there in the center, there are two men in a tussle. One goes at the other's face with a red-hot pair of tongs. In Noah's story of Dunstan, the saint tangles with the devil, and the experience puts him at odds with his community. And that sounded like a story he was familiar with.
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that of Dr. Smith, the one whose own perception of reality was so different from his community's that he had to be sent away to the Mississippi State Asylum.
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I'd never heard of St. Dunstan before Noah. But after the opening, I started seeing references to him everywhere, including on the back of a bottle of whiskey that was fire-spiced. Get it? But the story there and in other places is a little different. In those versions, doubt doesn't seem to play as big a role. The townspeople are glad he ran the devil out. That's the thing with stories.
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Dr. West could never wrap her head around why her grandfather would leave his wife and 10 children behind. She'd heard that he provided, made sure his family got fed. But that was when he was there. Learning the story of the loss and trauma he weathered in his teenage years, it all made sense. So she took these stories back to her family.
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Dr. West was introduced to Hillman at the end of his life, a particularly painful episode and a life with plenty of them.
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The takeaway is up for interpretation. At a certain point, the stories become more a product of the person telling them than the people in them. Of course, not everything that happens becomes a story. Sometimes a thing is too mundane to even remember. And sometimes it's so painful that generation after generation works to bury it.
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And now, with all the context, all the insight, how does she feel towards Hillman?
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almost into obscurity. The end of Hillman's life stands out. But the work that Dr. West did ensures that it doesn't define the man. It allowed her to paint a fuller picture. It's not all that different for Noah. For decades, all he knew about Dr. Smith was a headline's worth. He was sent to the state asylum. But Noah's careful not to let this part of Dr. Smith's life become Dr. Smith's life.
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The first time I walked into the room that held Noah's paintings, I tried to just stand back and take it all in at once. That was a mistake. As soon as you start to break it down with your eyes, you realize you can't. Noah deliberately refused to set boundaries. Scenes flow into each other like the flow to life.
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The courtroom where Dr. Smith had his insanity hearing bleeds into our first view of the old asylum. Hold the last canvas up to the first one, and now it's one painting. The brick from the house where Dr. Smith was born in 1891 matches the brick at the state hospital cemetery where he's buried. There's a loose, impressionistic feel to many of the paintings.
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One person is painted in careful detail while the figure or two canvas is over is a blur. In a way, it's a peek behind the curtain, a look at how the artist understands each part of the story. And the craziest part... Noah says this 183-canvas painting, a work that inspired the creation of an entire room in a museum, dozens of panel discussions, and even a New York Times article, isn't finished.
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I mean, it is, in the sense that it's ready to show, but not in the sense that he'll never lay a paintbrush on it again.
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Two weeks before we sat down, it shifted dramatically. This is when Noah finally got his great-grandfather's medical records, including a remarkably thorough intake interview, in which over several pages, Dr. Smith tells his whole life story.
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So what happens when one of those generations decides to unearth that story? I'm Larison Campbell, and this is Under Yazoo Clay. A quick heads up. This episode contains mentions of sexual assault. Noah is the first person to admit, if it were up to certain members of his family, and not the curators of the Mississippi Museum of Art, the show would never have gone up.
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But there's, of course, a caveat. Noah can't be sure if parts of Dr. Smith's autobiography are based on delusions.
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But having this information means that Noah may eventually replace some of these canvases or repaint details. So it's likely this is the only time this version of Noah's work will be shown.
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By the time the show opened, Noah and I had been talking about his work for almost a year. Probably another reason it was so overwhelming. There's always that cognitive dissonance when you finally see something you've spent forever imagining. But there was one part that threw me. It's right in the middle. Canvas number 92, in fact, out of 183. I turned to Noah.
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It's funny, when I look at it, I feel like the part that my eye tends to go to the most is that right there. It's two men in dress shirts and trousers. One also wears an apron, and it appears he's grabbing the other man's nose with pliers? This is how Noah came to tell me the story of St. Dunstan.
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As Noah explained, this is the moment of his great-grandfather's unraveling, the moment that the community decides his reality didn't match theirs. Dr. Smith wasn't sent away just because he'd been having delusions. He was sent away because he was accused of a crime.
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This was using the mobile optometry truck he'd patented. Dr. Smith would place a notice in a newspaper, and a few days later, he'd show up in that small town with his truck. People would come to his truck. He'd take them inside, perform eye exams, grind spectacles.
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Instead of being lynched, Dr. Smith was taken to jail. It was a move that probably saved his life.
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Noah's closest link to his great-grandfather, that is, the only person he ever met who actually knew Dr. Smith, was his own grandmother, Margaret, who died in 2014. She was Dr. Smith's oldest child.
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Dr. Smith avoided a criminal trial. It sounds like his father-in-law, Gerard Brandon, that godlike figure, pulled some strings. What he got instead was an insanity hearing. We know how that turned out.
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And for Noah, this is another important reason to see this work as largely unfinished.
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Because this pivotal moment in his grandfather's life, this act that meant that his daughter Margaret never saw him again and that he would spend the second half of his life in state custody, that got him so carefully erased from his family that his great-grandson had to spend the better part of a decade figuring out who he was, Noah's still wrestling with it.
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Of course Noah knows that there's no such thing as consensual sex with a 15-year-old. And he knows that Dr. Smith's mental illness is wrapped up in this alleged attack. In those same records, Dr. Smith tells the asylum's doctors he's part of a breeding program run by the Secret Service. With this painting, Noah intentionally broke his family tradition of keeping people in the dark.
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But what happens when you turn on the light and you still don't know what you're looking at?
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Right now, Noah represents Dr. Smith and this unknown girl with Dunstan and the devil, a metaphor about belief. But he's not sure it will stay that way.
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He suspects his family did too. There was shame, yes, about mental illness and about his alleged assault. But maybe it was mixed with uncertainty about how to feel about this man they'd all loved so much. The way Noah wrestles with this is clearly painful. He's so deeply conflicted. Maybe sometimes it's just easier to start your story at a point that's past all that uncertainty and pain.
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The night before we left town, we met up with Noah for a drink at the hotel bar across from the Mississippi Museum of Art. As we were saying our goodbyes, he mentioned offhand that he'd sold a few paintings to the hotel. He'd painted them years ago, just as he was starting to conceptualize his show. And they were hanging right down the hall, so we walked over to see them.
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The paintings were self-portraits. In one, Noah was working. His daughter, who often watches him paint, sits on a ledge nearby. Kind of reminded me how Margaret watched her own dad, Dr. Smith, making glasses. And then, to my surprise, there in that same painting was Dr. Smith. He's gray, somewhat faceless, but he's there, sitting across from a silhouetted teenage girl. Noah was just as surprised.
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This painting was big, over five feet tall, much bigger than any one canvas from the show. But it was also a one-off, a good way to explore ideas.
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But then the museum gave him this platform to tell Dr. Smith's story. He had to choose which one to tell.
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You can hear Noah wrestling with this idea and with his own new role in the family myth-making. So when it came to the show that would present this man to the world, Noah opted to let the answer shapeshift, mold to the eye of the beholder. He put it to St. Dunstan.
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Saints and sinners, truth and lies. These binaries are the underpinning for countless parables, myths, and family legends. But the real stories, the ones underneath those, they're always more complicated than that. That's true of Dr. Smith's story. And it's certainly true for the state institution where he spent the last part of his life.
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Obviously, that's not the case. Dig deeper, and sometimes you only find more to question. That's next on Under Yazoo Clay. Under Yazoo Clay is executive produced by the Mississippi Museum of Art in partnership with Pod People.
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It's hosted by me, Larison Campbell, and written and produced by Rebecca Chasson and myself, with help from Angela Yee and Amy Machado, with editing and sound design by Morgan Foose and Erica Wong. And thanks to Blue Dot Sessions for music.
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Special thanks to Betsy Bradley at the Mississippi Museum of Art, as well as Lyda Gibson at the Center for Bioethics and Medical Humanities at the University of Mississippi Medical Center. Visit Jackson and Jay and Dini Stein.
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Anna's mother, Margaret, was Dr. Smith's daughter. He was sent to the asylum when Margaret was still a little girl. His insanity trial was a big deal. Newspapers covered it. But Anna knew none of this because her family decided to never speak of him again.
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I don't know if lost his memory is an old euphemism for mental illness. Lord knows the South has lots of those. But there's a heartbreaking irony here. The family's explanation for Dr. Smith's absence, for their silence, is that he's the one who doesn't remember them. Which is all to say that there was something incredibly moving about this show.
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About seeing a man who'd been intentionally erased be given the floor. Or rather, the walls. Noah's show had taken over more than a third of the museum's square footage. There's the 122 linear feet of panoramic painting, yes, but there was also a giant hallway lined with artifacts from Dr. Smith's life. Photos, letters he'd exchanged with his wife, Ethel.
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Even the beat-up leather satchel he'd used to carry his optometry supplies. And a pair of his signature round wireframe spectacles, not unlike the ones Noah's got on. Off the hallway of Dr. Smith's artifacts, the museum was airing a short documentary about Noah's research and process. And over the course of a week, they hosted a series of panel discussions that went beyond Noah and Dr. Smith.
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Topics range from the Asylum Hill Project to archival ethics to ideas about memory and generational trauma. You know when a little kid tries to keep a secret and finally they're allowed to blurt it out and the words just don't stop? It felt like that. Like an easing of conscience for this whole community.
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So what compelled Noah to spend years telling the story of a man he was always told never to mention? To understand that, we're going to have to skip 25 years back and a whole continent away. Noah and I started talking about his show almost a year before it went up. We'd go back and forth, his telling me how the painting was going, my prying about any new findings he had about Dr. Smith.
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But in one of our talks, he let me in on a part of his own story, one that changed everything. It's 2001. Noah's in a high-level graduate program at the Glasgow School of Art in Scotland. He was married, and it wasn't going well. It's in this moment of intense stress that he wakes up one night in the pitch black to a horrible realization.
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For nearly six months, this was his everyday reality. The kind of mental break he was experiencing has a diagnosis, depersonalization disorder.
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He took a leave from his painting program and went home to his parents. He started thumbing through old family photo albums, hoping they'd trigger a reconnection between his memories and reality. After a while, he started to paint the photos, repossessing them in a way. It was in the midst of all this when his great-grandfather's absence really struck him.
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When he got started on this project, Noah didn't have much to go on. It's not easy to dig up a story that's meant to be forgotten. A story that more than one person has taken pains to bury. But some pieces had survived. His great-grandmother Ethel had saved a wooden box. Inside was nearly every letter she'd written during the early years of her marriage to Dr. Smith.
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If Dr. Smith and Ethel kept in touch after he went into the asylum, she didn't save those letters. So Noah turned to a different repository of memory, the State Archives.
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Finally, confirmation, but not much else. Fortunately, that was about to change. At Noah's next stop, a downtown gallery, a man buying a painting overheard him telling his great-grandfather's story and introduced himself. It was Stephen Parks, the state librarian. Hey, small cities have big perks.
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advertisements for Dr. Smith's optician practice, meeting notes from the state board of opticians where Dr. Smith held a seat, newspaper articles about his engagement, his practice, and later his very public breakdown. With every document, Noah became more inspired. A picture of a man was taking shape, in his head and then on canvas. He began painting vignettes of what he read.
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But as much as this work has brought Dr. Smith back to life, I'm not sure it's brought him back into the family. There's a formality in the way that Noah talks about him. Why do you refer to him as Dr. Smith?
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Dr. Smith's not a pawpaw or even grandfather. Familial names imply that their owner is just that, a member of the family. Someone had pruned his branch from the family tree.
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You remember Noah's mom, Anna. She'd learned early on that her own mother, Margaret, didn't like to talk about Anna's grandfather.
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And so for Noah, it's not just about understanding this man, but about understanding just why exactly his family worked so hard to erase him. There was shame about mental illness. But was that the whole story?
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I will tell this story anywhere I can. I would be happy to. I think the more we get the word out, the deeper our engagement will be with the community, the more transparent we'll be, and the more stories that we'll hear back.
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We'll be happy to talk to them, describe what we're doing, engage with them, see if they would like to give us a name to look for.
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We're going to build a memorial on campus and not reinter these individuals. That is administratively much more efficient. It also makes those remains available to any wonderful technologies that are out over the horizon that can help identify these individuals and offer them to families for traditional burial.
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Just the level of positivity of that plan has been stunning, both in the community at large and in the descendant community and our community advisory board. So we're very happy about that. So that paradigm is acceptable.
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If you have any standing in the state of Mississippi, part of your work is righting wrongs. There are many. For this I don't see it so much as an overt effort to right wrongs, because I think that assumes the old stereotypical asylum motif of a terrible place, overcrowded, abandoned people. And that's not the picture that's emerging from the history that we're collecting.
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Now, are there things that could have been done differently, and we want to both acknowledge and learn from those? Sure.
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The old asylum closed, Whitfield opened, completely new staff, completely new department of the Mississippi government. It was not like it was a legacy institution. The last 2,500 patients, from here, went to Whitfield, but that's the only transfer that happened. It was a brand new operation.
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We had this huge institution that operated for 80 years, and then it remained derelict for 20, and then the University Medical Center comes on, And there's no transfer of institutional memory. The buildings were torn down. The cemetery remained derelict up on the hill, unattended, forgotten, unused, unneeded.
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Many of us, most of us in medicine have sufficient egos. And we all believe that history starts with our arrival. So the medical school opened and it was churning from the very beginning. Patient care and research and education and no time to look back. And we're building this brand new modern medical center and we're looking forward. We have no interest in preserving old crumbling history.