Doctor Mike
Appearances
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Oh man, I'm gonna piss off some people. I think seeing food as medicine is wrong on several fronts. There's not a great way to look at food on several fronts.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. Hopefully I didn't say anything too controversial. They'll get me attacked, but we'll see.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so current recommendations are to replace saturates with more omega-6-rich polyunsaturated vegetable oils, particularly high in linoleic acid. But we recommend a mix of omega-3s and omega-6s. And those, you know, there's a concern that, you know, you might see LDL lowering, but those might have an independent bad effect.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so that's always, you see that for the past 40 years and guidelines that people don't really recommend more than 10% of total calories coming from PUFA because of that. theoretical concerns of harm. And there's just not populations that are eating much higher than that, that you can go and observe that they're totally fine.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So the recommendations are slightly more cautious, but yeah, you don't, you don't have huge blockbuster trials that say like we swapped saturates for PUFAs across a dose response range across these diverse populations and at lower cardiovascular events and all of them like that's really, really high bar for the field to reach.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So we know, I think, relatively confidently that SADRID's being replaced by PUFA's lowers LDL. We don't see a strong evidence of harm in any marker that you look at. There's a little bit of added improvement in blood glucose and insulin for that and liver fat. And you can see this in these small trials that the field has strung together. And then you have epidemiological data.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So like the observational evidence where you, Give out people either food frequency questionnaires or in some of it, there's 24 hour dietary recalls, but it's mostly food frequency questionnaires.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And those you can estimate how many how much energy you're getting from saturated fat versus polyunsaturated fat and do kind of replacement modeling algorithms that sort of mirror what's happening in the RCTs. And you can see.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
A similar often, like it's a very analogous, you see a reduction in LDL in the control trials, you see often a reduction in cardiovascular events in most of the epidemiology. And that's sort of the two strongest types of evidence nutrition is going to put forth.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's a little bit of primate data that's going to show that replacement of saturates with PUFA also lowers cholesterol and reduces atherosclerosis size. But yeah, you have all these individual lines of evidence that have like they're impactful, but they're missed. They're not like a smoking gun sort of thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So finding trial data where people have reduced saturated fats, replace them with PUFAs and actually follow people to have cardiovascular events. There are older trials that did this. They typically relied upon more captive populations where you had control of the diet already. And so the mental hospitals were big ones.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, you had, um, like LA, the LA veteran study is one example where veterans used to be housed and the diet was controlled. So anywhere where somebody was institutionalized, um, and the diet was being controlled, you could do some interventions and people, um, did that back mostly in like the sixties. And they just, by modern trial standards, weren't always the best.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
A lot of times they intervene on, they change the intervention diet, but didn't really do anything to the control. And so they're like slightly imbalanced. A lot of them are done during the era of trans fats being in the food supply. And so they lowered the intervention group either.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's endless debates in the field about this, where the intervention group, sometimes the intervention reduced saturates at the same time it reduced trans fats. And so people, when they like replace it with PUFA, and so people are like, ah, you've overinflated the benefits of replacing saturated fats because you also lowered trans at the same time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then you have other intervention studies that intervened with high PUFA diets, but they used a margarine that probably had some trans fats. And so they were like, ah, maybe you didn't see the mortality benefit because you just did a trans fat intervention at the same time you did a PUFA intervention. There are these endless debates from that really limited literature base.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You'll see like the American Heart Association has a position statement on this where they use like four core trials that they rely upon. Three of them are adequately randomized trials. And, you know, they point to like what we would expect that mostly soybean oil replacing saturated fat sources in the diet, lower cardiovascular events.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's like a composite of all cardiovascular events, which a lot of the evidence-based medicine people don't like composite endpoints. They want to break it out by individual event type. And again, there's these limitations that I mentioned. And the timeline of it all, right? Yeah. Over what period of time?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
They're over two years long was the inclusion criteria the American Heart Association relied upon. But those trials, I look at them as being like, they don't point to a strong signal for harm, but they are not gold standard necessarily.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So it would be amazing if we as a society had people who could basically just be live-in paid research participants, five years living in some capacity long-term where we can control their diet. But that's so hard to do.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think that's one supporting line of evidence, but it's not a direct one-to-one. So all drugs lower LDL. There's many drugs out there. They lower it through different mechanisms. We don't even 100% know the mechanisms by which dietary fat composition changes lower LDL.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
um they do a similar thing of like obviously there's enhanced clearance of ldl from the plasma compartment by the liver there's also some debates about whether there's reduced cholesterol synthesis for the mechanism of how they actually lower blood cholesterol but um we would expect that ldl lowering to produce beneficial effects i think the big question becomes like what are potential off-target effects of the diet so if you go like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
super high in polyunsaturated fatty acids, you might at some point... Create a new problem. Yeah, there might be a toxic effect at some point. And finding the dose response data there is pretty limited. You're often relying on epidemiology. I know the cardiology world is kind of like right now at the point where it's like the lower the better on LDL. Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
and diet is like recommended as a major way to as a lifestyle way to help control ldl but um that effect size is going to vary quite a bit and i don't think you can do anything with diet to get down to like less than 30 or 40 there's these old um sort of like simian diet like sort of mirroring this like super high plant-based diets lots of soy protein uh lots of high pufa oils and
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And people can get pretty substantial, like 15 plus percent lowering in LDL cholesterol from these diets. But that's not getting you down to below 40 necessarily.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, it's tough. I mean, we've seen it in the era of carnivore keto diets where people are getting like, if you're getting 80% of your calories from fat and you're escaping PUFAs, then the natural fat composition of the foods you're eating is getting you like 40 plus percent of calories from saturates.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so we've seen people get like super really high and like it comes down with dietary switches. But apart from those like obscure scenarios, I try and orient people like, Let's see if we can get down like 10 to 20 points with a lot of dietary changes. And people vary like the nature of the genetic issue that they have. It's leading to their cholesterol being high.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like sometimes it's responsive to diet. Sometimes it's not, there's not like a great way to predict that necessarily. Um, you know, there's random things in, in diet that can, like I had a patient one time who, um, Turkish coffee, boiled coffee contains, um, these, uh, plant terpenoid compounds that raise LDL.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And they're like good data on this and makes coffee epidemiology, old coffee epidemiology really messy because, you know, study to study done across different countries, we're showing different relationships to cardiovascular mortality. Um, and it turns out like if you're drinking like six cups a day of a boiled coffee, like a Turkish coffee, you can be like, it raises LDL quite a bit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so I've had patients drinking boiled coffee, not putting it over a filter that are just ingesting tons of terpenes. And they stopped that and their cholesterol goes down 20 points. Wow. But they were like high consumers of this like obscure thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So every like diet through many different mechanisms, it's mostly fat composition type of fiber, a little effective dietary cholesterol, obscure things like, like terpenoids that can really impact LDL. Probably the polyphenols impact LDL a tiny bit, but they all work through potentially slightly different mechanisms and your patients all have LDL being raised for slightly different reasons.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So a lot of like, when I talk with patients, it's very much setting the scene for like, you might see magic, you might see nothing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Oh my goodness. I mean, the field of nutrition, I feel like is often very separate from like the popular understanding of nutrition.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We just like, I want to be clear that we know the like general average effect, but there's quite a bit of variability, which underlies a lot of the academic enthusiasm for precision nutrition of like trying to predict why is there so much inter-individual variability in the response to diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I asked it in this very specific manner specifically. I think seeing food as medicine is wrong on several fronts. There's not a great way to look at food on several fronts. Like the totality of diet can have medicinal effects for sure. And nobody's denying that. But like we're not studying food as medicine for the most part. Like if you want food, a lot of people say food is medicine.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like we have an NIH nutrition roadmap that was released a couple of years ago that heavily embraces like precision nutrition, understanding inter-individual variability, understanding more about food composition, how it affects health, both in the longterm and chronic disease. And then in the short term, like how in the hospital do we feed patients better to improve outcomes? Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then you ask them, OK, well, where are the randomized control trials with heart disease endpoints? for our foods. And it's, I mean, you have like the predimed study is like one single example, but most people don't want to study. We don't have the level of evidence to back up the statement that food is medicine that we have for actual medicines, um, in almost all cases.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so I think that's a bit of overstating the efficacy of food based interventions, um, I think a lot of the food is medicine stuff comes from the idea of like, we should do healthy food prescriptions and this sort of stuff, which there's active trials ongoing around that. I'm curious to see what the evidence is. I have no idea how it's going to turn out necessarily.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But food is medicine also like tends, I see a lot of hyperbole around it that makes me quite cautious. Like, Oh, olive oil, polyphenols are going to like cure you of breast cancer. And I'm like, It comes with this weight of having this massive treatment effect. And there is, again, Evans, the DASH diet having close to first-line pharmacological therapy for blood pressure lowering.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I don't want to undersell that at all. And I want people to appreciate that what they're eating on their plate every day does impact their health. Um, but it's definitely like overstating it and I think makes it very prescriptive when there is a lot of flexibility. Like we, nutrition has not always done a good job of tailoring the diet to an individual's culture preferences.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and there's a lot of ways that you can take dietary interventions and adapt them to, um, Whatever your socioeconomic status is, whatever your religious beliefs are. Food is medicine sort of takes the very small subset of foods that we have studied, which are mostly like there's a lot of like love for the Mediterranean diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And there's nothing like that we know of that's like so uniquely amazing about the Mediterranean diet. It's just that like nutrition is like science.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. Science is founded in like Western traditions. And so they got interested in the Mediterranean, but like you could probably have a Japanese traditional Japanese diet, traditional African diet, all that. If we put the money and resources into understanding those foods, the food composition and design trials around it, um, that you would find similar benefits to the Mediterranean diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
When you look compositionally at the foods, there's no reason to believe that like It's all that magical. So it puts a bit too much mysticism around food for me. It's not about the food. It's about the totality of a number of interventions across their nutrients.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, yeah. I want something that conveys a similar message but more timid. Food almost is medicine. Cause I, you clinically, you see the dark side of this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so I did my clinical training at the NIH clinical center, which you don't get there until you've gone through many specialists, particularly to like, there's a lot of oncology patients and they are there on like a CAR T cell therapy as like a last ditch treatment. after several others have failed.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And you see patients, family members spending their last dollar on food and supplements that they find, magical dietary regimens, green juice, fasting, and they have really bought into this like food is medicine. And it's, I can't tell a patient like that. There's no randomized control trial data to support really any of this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think that's a, I can't tell you the number needed to treat, number needed to harm. I've seen harms of it like anecdotally as a clinician where patients who definitely did not need to lose weight were already wasting away, got put on a green juice fast, and they are now emaciated even more three months later than they probably would have been if they had drank an Ensure.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think the popular conception of nutrition is very much what we would think of as nutrition and chronic disease. People are like, nutrition doesn't know anything. It's a very common perception. I'm like, well, we know all the essential nutrients. We do have great, very evidence-based supplementation and feeding programs and things in global health and a lot of implementation science there.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and so, yeah, I think that is where, I know you said, don't go into the inpatient setting and I just went to the, I think that's a very concrete, clear example.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Right, like a patient with PKU that's on a restricted phenylalanine diet. That's like where really food is the medicine. I think there's like food has beneficial effects for health, but this is where I worry about calling it medicine. I think if you go ask dieticians who work in different areas, like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Inpatient dieticians love to say food is medicine, but they mean the Ensure that is preventing the malnutrition in the patient is the medicine, which if you go out to the regular general population, they think Ensure is poison because it's seed oils and corn syrup solids or multidextrin. Um, and so I think the vibes of food is medicine are good.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
If you got people in a room and ask them to define, okay, well, which foods are medicine at which doses and for which populations you'd come up with 85,000 different answers. Unlike if you ask, what is a stat? And it is pretty obvious.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I would love for the U S to fund research to know if there is a diet, we should be feeding one patients have specific types of cancer. Um, and does it have any effect?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
talk about making it 10 times more complicated than already the complex picture you tried to do and i mean that's where i think like general guardrails are fine without getting hyper prescriptive like high fruit and vegetable diets maintaining a healthy body weight it was like general guidance from the world cancer research fund and the icr that put together these like monographs of diet for cancer and it's overwhelmingly prospective cohort data we don't have like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
for cancer it's a bad one because we don't have like biomarkers really that we can readily control the diet and assess and people come up with ones but they have kind of questionable prognostic capacity so for certain outcomes we have like I think just naturally more robust evidence where you can measure blood pressure you know blood lipids take only a couple weeks to reach a new sort of homeostasis
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's a lot we do know in nutrition, but there is just this... I think the methods and nutrition always leave a little bit of uncertainty more than you'd get with drug trials and these sorts of things. How does what I'm eating now affect something that's happening 20 years down the road, long latency periods to chronic diseases before they manifest for the most part?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so like you can do a dietary intervention study in just a few weeks and see, okay, blood cholesterol dropped like 15% or whatever. Great. And that persists over time with those changes. And so there's different biomarkers, different diseases that we can say a bit more confidently that like the totality of dietary changes has a effect that is potentially relevant for prevention.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And in other disease states, we don't have as much data or we only have one type of data. So it's, it's, Yeah, I don't want to undersell like people get really in the weeds and a lot of stuff. And it's like we've had the diabetes prevention program, like landmark trial that used, you know, the supposedly poisonous low fat diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
If you go on the Internet, there's a low fat diet to counsel on weight loss, get like an average of around seven percent weight loss. And you see huge improvements in people who were pre-diabetic at baseline kind of not progressing to type two diabetes diagnosis.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yes. That was an interesting history that was told.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. You get the, the diabetes prevention program and then like trial in the nineties and, you know, a few publications that come out from it that start to show that like, you know, the degree of adherence to the low fat diet and the weight loss is like highly predictive of not progressing onto type two diabetes, like to late nineties, early two thousands, you see these publications pop out.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so by like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
2002 2004 ada is putting out their position statements and you can track it across the 90s they always kind of said beyond the evidence at least the way that we look at it now like lifestyle is important weight is probably a risk factor like council on weight loss but it gets more i think the impetus for and focus and the guidance like really starts to get hammered in and around 2002 where they're like we've got the dpp trial now which is still a super landmark trial you look back on like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
we know that it randomized either to lifestyle or to metformin or just to control. And the lifestyle and metformin do quite similarly and quite well in preventing a number of individuals, a large majority of individuals from progressing from prediabetes to diabetes. And like, that's, prevention 101. If you want to call that food is medicine, but all those people are eating different foods.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
They were all had sort of their lifestyle counseling individualized to what their current state was. Um, and just, again, it focused a lot on weight loss. Um, and there were like other dietary goals, but it would, this was like even pre the era where like there was a big focus on like reducing sugar, sweetened beverages. Like that was not like a major component of the DPP per se.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, so yeah, like the people, I think we're,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
want it's like fine-tuned hyper prescriptive super granular and that's fine if you've done all the big think things leading up to it I think people have to realize there's like diminishing returns for the most part yeah and you know maybe like you individually will like benefit a ton from this supplement that's great and I'm not here trying to like gaslight you if you think something does something amazing but for the population at large the tools of nutrition research can at best for the
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
broader guardrails that you should be following. And then it's, you know, it takes more and more trialing and one type stuff if you want to like fine tune the details later on. And then you should be seeing a medical professional if you have like very specific issues or concerns. Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and so, yeah, nutrition, it's, I think there's a lot that gets lost in translation. Um, there's a lot of people, I became a dietician and did my PhD in nutrition, not because I didn't want to write prescriptions, but then I think the public is always looking for a prescription of like how many milligrams of this and how many servings of this. Um, are eggs good or bad?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Very sexy, yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, there's not like a quick counter, which I think it's gets back to this problem. Um, but I mean, to like unpack that, I think, you know, people are, I guess the other experts that are providing hyper prescriptive advice, I would just always encourage people like a real and real like clinical nutrition where, I mean, you're getting five,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
five minutes to talk about diet, maybe max, like even where in nutrition, you have an hour, like to a real diet, like a dietitian has an hour with a consult for a patient.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like you're doing like a whole diet history, a whole assessment of all of their, whatever they've had to clinically done to them, their biochemical labs, their body, what we call anthropometrics of body waves or come waist circumference, anything that they,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
might inform upon their nutritional status before we then talk about like, what are your values and preferences and, and kind of what foods do you even have available to you? And like then thinking about like, what changes can we make?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Well, so they're just, they're just super tailored. Like what you're paying for essentially with a dietitian is to like, be like, let's think about let's triage of all the, like the thou there's thousands of products out there. Right.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Thousands of influencers who if you went out and did every single thing that they confidently told you to do you'd be broke even though like rich millionaires would probably be close to spending ten thousand bucks a month on supplement because there's always I mean there are I've had patients taking more than 45 supplements and like that is not an upper limit by any means and so if you actually want to like figure out what is the most likely to benefit me it takes a pretty detailed assessment and
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then really tailored to you as the individual. And that's what I think you should want out of it. Somebody who at baseline is cookie cutter saying, take 250 milligrams of magnesium, take 200 milligrams of turmeric, 95% curcuminoids or whatever that they're going to say like over and over to every single person.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And it's all like a yes, no thing. And I think anytime your question doesn't have a definitive answer, like it's, it's gonna forever fuel media cycle and people putting out information about it. Um, that seems contrasting to whatever official dietary guidance is and it's a never ending loop.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
That's not, it might seem hyper specific, but it's the least individualized thing as possible. It's just as generic to me as the general guidelines.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think that's a million dollars. If I knew the answer to that, we would, I would be much wealthier than I am. Yeah. I mean, the nutrition world has 8 million versions of that where it's like, everybody's got a gut reset program and they've got in nutrition, like laboratory testing. it's so hyper context and specific that like sometimes a plasma nutrient level does or doesn't inform.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And it depends upon your state and all these sorts of things that like I, as a PhD trained dietitian need to like, I'm like, I know what the DRI said. I know the validation data. But you can go out. I've had patients come to me with IgG food sensitivity testing, a spectra cell micronutrient lab from white blood cells, all these things that are being used by other practitioners to guide their diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so sometimes the questions aren't, um, I think adequate, uh, things like are eggs good or bad, you know, that's always in the media. And there's so many first principles in nutrition science that I think are violated by that question on its own. I always take these questions and turn them into a study design.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think it just kind of hooks people in for longer because you do the baseline testing, you do a follow-up test, and then you make tweaks. And then when things don't move in the right direction, you do another change. And it hooks people in for a much longer consultation with that practitioner, which helps them build up
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
and I get a lot of patients who are five years in having tried various of these practitioners and are just frustrated and tired of people selling them like a quick and easy solution. Cause I think they start rightly skeptical of modern medicines, like hiding something from them about like a quick and easy solution.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
eventually going to have to come to be frustrated with the alternatives that are all very confidently providing them with, I know the way, the truth and the light about diet and supplements and natural medicines. Um, all I try and do is arm people with like, what should make you skeptical? I encourage folks to be skeptical pan practitioners as in they practice and everything like pan as an all.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and I get people coming to me as a dietitian who are like, okay, well what's my exercise plan? And I'm like, okay, That isn't. Do it. That's the exercise. But they're going to people who are giving them entire like lifestyle overhauls on this is your supplement routine. This is your diet routine. This is your exercise routine.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And it's just at some point, I think folks need to realize that like very few people are experts in all those things. I am very big on scope of practice. Even within nutrition, there are domains I try not to touch on at all because it's just outside my field and I'm not up to date with the most relevant data.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But we're seeing that everywhere on social media where people are pretending that they can walk in five lanes and be an expert in everything. That's just not possible. I would always encourage people to look at the totality of what's out there. It's fine to want to get somebody's opinion on a single supplement, but just also realizing that there are,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
many many other practitioners you could go see that are going to tell you with the same level of impotence and confidence that impetus and confidence that this other supplement is going to do the same thing and that there's dozens and dozens and dozens of supplements out there on the marketplace and just so going in being skeptical and having trying to think about like okay I'm going to if I'm going to try something I need to know
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
how am I going to decide what I'm going to try? Work with a practitioner who's willing to kind of do that with you and not is just like confidently selling you one thing that they're also doing for every other patient that walks in through the door. And having like some sort of test set up to like, okay, what do I need to know a priori needs to improve?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like I need to, how am I going to objectively know that I feel better, sleep better, whatever it is, whether it's like through a log or something that you're doing and give it three months and see if anything meaningfully changes and be real with yourself. Cause that's,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
if you're not walking in skeptical of the practitioner and the products that they're selling you, you're going to end up on selling tons of money, seeing a bunch of different people on 45 different things and having no idea at the end, you're going to be in this soup of like, well, maybe I feel better, but I don't know which of these 45 products was doing it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, but we are sort of in this like wellness capitalist, the capitalist hellscape out there where you can just sell anything. You know, if we allowed pharma to make the claims that supplement makers are doing and supplement makers aren't even making it themselves, it's not illegal, um, to have your influencers who have an affiliate code doing all the illegal marketing for you nowadays. So,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I don't know that there's a way to combat the one-on-one like good feeling you get when a practitioner is listening to you, you start to trust them and then they have the, like the answer for you other than to convince people that like. That's not real. Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And you have to ask, if you're going to do a trial of are eggs good or bad, you immediately have to ask, well, what are people eating instead of the eggs? And so are eggs good or bad are going to immediately be a relativistic answer of like, Are eggs good or bad relative to lentils or to red meat?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, it's a good feeling in the moment, and I wish modern medicine could combat this by not having six minutes spent with your doctor trying to address everything. I wish there was referrals for dieticians. Most insurances will not cover dieticians or maybe just a couple visits at best. A lot of times you have to have type 2 diabetes or chronic kidney disease. Mm-hmm.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But we as practitioners, I think we get the 30 minutes to an hour to sit and develop a rapport and trust and individualize with patients. But a lot of people are looking to their doctors who have six minutes to cover their entire everything clinically they need to cover to somehow cover nutrition.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's an impossible task that until things change and you can actually go see a nutrition practitioner and it's accessible and affordable to people, I think it's a big losing battle for folks.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So you can go back. It's usually why they're at my doorstep. They're like, I have all these nonspecific symptoms that we can't figure out which of the 45 supplements is the problem.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I don't think I would tell them anything specific. I would just listen to them, hear what their problems are and talk about like, be like, I will talk about any data diet you want to talk about that you want to try support you in it. That's what I like. You know, nutrition guidance for the public is like almost a losing battle because everybody has different reasons that they eat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Whereas with a patient, it's just a matter of... I think a lot of people go to alternative practitioners because they just don't feel heard by their doctor. And sitting down and saying, what are you feeling? What have you heard? What have you read? Let's talk about it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I have a very select patient population, but this is from my experience of folks coming and they're frustrated and just, I think, feel relief from...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Somebody listening to them, explaining the nuances, the logic behind and the data, you know, because everybody's now has a PubMed ID and their Instagram bios are in their Instagram posts saying like their science to back this up, taking a little bit of time to walk through. Well, this is what the science said. This is where there's uncertainty in it, where there's not uncertainty in it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And there's an infinite number of these trials that you can do that I think gets at a major issue in nutrition. We don't have a placebo in our trials. And so you have essentially infinite pairwise comparisons across foods. And nutrition is inherently interested in the dose-response relationship.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and what it might suggest and doing that for all the things that they're hearing about just to make them feel empowered and know going in, whether something is likely to work or likely to not, and they can call it quits in three months if they don't like it, I think is most of the solution here is just.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
listening to patients and helping them feel empowered in a situation where when you turn on Instagram, it's like the least empowering thing in the world. You have dozens of people who are telling you that you can take control of your life and they all have different solutions for it. Again, vegan to carnivore. And that puts this pressure on to patients.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think people feel it more and more that there's pressure on the general population that like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
they have to put in the work to try out everything and then when they fail when it doesn't address their symptoms like they feel like they've failed somehow and the next person in line is going to tell them well it's because you did this diet and you should have been doing this diet and then it's on them to again undertake a new diet and so it's this perfect cycle where you keep spending money and it's always your fault when things don't work out and
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think kind of flipping the script on that and just being like, I will tell you the uncertainties in the data, which there are a lot.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And we can come to like a you and me together and hopefully led by you as the patient, like what you want to do, what you want to try out, how we're going to think about setting up some sort of a protocol essentially for whether this is going to help your symptoms or not. But
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
going in clear headed where I'm never going to lie to a patient and be like, yeah, every single person needs 300 milligrams by using me or sleep will be like massively improved. I'm like, cause the data just isn't there for that despite it being repeated across all of social media a lot. Um, I think you need to have people who are also ready to hear that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There are people who are like very much in a, the true believers of specific things and that's totally fine. Um, everybody's like, Diet has always, you go back for thousands of years and every culture, every culture has beliefs about diets. There's a ritualistic element of it that almost fulfills like a religious thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think that's for the most part good until you start getting people with like xanthomas from their carnivore diet. You're like, okay, it's gone a little bit too far. But I think autonomy and choice around food is something that we should promote and use the science as a garden rail to nudge people in directions that we think are are helpful.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then just be honest about when there's not data for stuff, but that is something that does not make you a lot of money as a practitioner.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
In pharma studies, you're trying to do all of your pharmacokinetics early on to optimize for the dose that's going to lower your target and then not have side effects. In nutrition, we care about high, medium, and low and everything in between there. And so you can imagine this egg question.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. And I think it wouldn't be really like one, all those sites are e-commerce sites at the end of the day. If you think social media is just for interaction with your friends, everything is e-commerce nowadays. They're all trying to sell you something. But like I have like a weird autoimmune stuff that doesn't fit into any textbook diagnosis.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so like I have been there being like, I will buy anything that might be helpful. But I think that is like the most, the vulnerable populations that need to be the most skeptical. And I'm saying that from my own experience of like having spent money on random stuff that I hope would be helpful.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And like, sometimes you have to learn through experience of like, I tried this and try this and try this. And then five years later, I still have the same autoimmune symptoms, maybe slightly better. but helping people set that like realistic expectations about what you're getting. We have so much skepticism around like how has big pharma and big food influenced food nutrition guidance.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think realizing that that doesn't make the little guy on Instagram like somehow free of conflicts of interest. If anything, they often have more, they're like directly benefiting and their whole livelihood is dependent upon selling stuff. So it's 2025 people lie on the internet. I think it was kind of like a, a theme that we all need to just embrace and then navigate that wellness landscape.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And even if you do have something like a serious condition that doesn't have a clear medical treatment for it, I've had those patients. I'm like, I will talk you through the theory. If you want to try something, the safety associated with it. noting that there's no randomized control trials that show that this is helpful.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think you need more practitioners who are just like open to listening to patients with where they're at, which modern medicine is in no way helping patients in that sense.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. I mean, you might've interviewed some of the podcasts. I don't know that like there, I see themes. I like truly try not to track.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I, when I'm most concerned with this healthcare practitioners on the internet that are like just repeating things that they've heard uncritically, like there's a lot of both dieticians, physicians, nurse practitioners, you know, dancing to cute TikTok videos of like these are the five foods to avoid or whatever. That's what I get sent a lot.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And what I like am most likely to criticize the big sort of people who have a brand and are obviously selling something. I think the public just needs to be skeptical and there's not, I don't spend too much time like critiquing those things all that much.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, I think there is general, what I focus on are like themes to be skeptical of over people because all these top influencers have a PCOS nutrition guideline and now they all have menopause supplement lines and then they all have a gut health thing. And so I think the public being aware that like, these are sort of like hot gimmicky things, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We've got now infinite comparators across many different doses, and you can quickly come to a 65-arm trial that's never going to happen. Yeah. And even then, that would only be certain for the population that you studied it within. Are they high risk at baseline? Are they going to be somebody who's a hyper-responder to dietary cholesterol and their blood cholesterol levels?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
that sure there's a bunch of microbiome data and nobody's doubting that the microbiome is like related in some way to health but that doesn't mean that there's testing it is going to give you any valuable testing's not going to give it a therapy that someone claims works through the microbiome works on the microbiome isn't doesn't mean it's clinically efficacious for anything um and at the end of the day for nutrition it always comes back to like eat a
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
high fiber diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yep. And if you tested it tomorrow, it would be very different. Yeah, exactly. And all those things are like 16 SRNA based for the most part. And it's like, what does that mean? So that's above my, it's how they sequence who is there essentially in your gut microbes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But it tells you like the relative abundance of specific bacterial species, essentially like it doesn't capture fungi and viruses even. So it's not even getting all the microbiota there. It doesn't tell you what genes they have. So you need whole genome sequencing to do that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then it doesn't tell you about their function, which you can start to get at from looking at their transcriptome or at their metabolome. And so there are like many different metrics you can lay out for the microbiome, but knowing the relative abundance of which bacterial species are there versus not is like, minimally informative.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It was hot early on as an early microbiome method, but a lot of top researchers in the field who all are saying, we don't know the best probiotics, we don't know the best diet to individualize around your microbiome, don't buy these tests. They're not even using these things in research because it's not as advanced as it needs to be.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
uh, nearly as much as they were because they were relying on early. But these, there's a lot of gimmicks out there, things that are like, I think people want the feeling of being on the cutting edge. Um, but the cutting edge often means we know very limited about it. Like our, and I, and that's fine if you want to do a diet or an experiment or something. Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But being real with yourself, but like cutting edge means high uncertainty. Yeah. Like, yeah. And I think that gets left out a lot of times in the marketing and the hype of things. And that cutting edge doesn't mean that everything that happened before is necessarily wrong. There are blockbuster trials in nutrition that change nutrition recommendations that are like with...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
peanut allergy prevention in young kids. It used to be said like delay. And then that, then blockbuster trial was like, actually no earlier is much better. And we, when there is definitive evidence like that out there, there was like a huge full court press for changing info out there. Yeah. Like no one's secretly hiding this, like this top information from you. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Again, in chronic disease kind of stuff where it gets uncertain, I think often you'll see people overstating the relative confidence we have in the data. And I understand why that degrades trust. But there is not secret blockbuster studies out there that people are hiding from you. We don't fund nutrition research seriously enough to have those blockbusters things. So yeah, it's...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's all these effect modifiers. But that, I think, illustrates the questions that we're asking sometimes are not the right ones, both in the literature and then also in the public sphere.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I would just say like, you know, currently no medical guidance recommends this. These tests are like have limited evidence sort of backing them up. So something general to that effect of like there's not really data for it. And I usually ask patients, do you want to go into like what the theory is and why people are pushing it?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And some patients want like the deep dive and some people just want to hear no. And there's various.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So one of the failure sniff test, I mean, yeah. One of the ones that you see the most common is the food sensitivity tests, which you can buy now and like target from Everly well or whatever. Um, and so they're like IgG based food sensitivity tests that get sold as like, uh, the more IgG you have and reactivity to a specific food, the more likely you are to be like sensitive to it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And they're not really defining sensitive. It's just like this nebulous concept of, I feel bad after eating something maybe, um, Um, but those are like the science of IgG is a secure immune system is constantly, it's in, you have immune cells all along your gut and they're interacting with food derived proteins. And it's more of IgG is like a marker of a tolerance.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like you make antibiotics and antibodies to foods that you've eaten recently. And so I've had patients who like, and I use this story a lot, like where they eat something and it scores high on their IgG test and then they cut it out of their diet and then they come back and then now they get totally new food that they're supposedly sensitive to.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's not really a time at which you're not going to have high IgG to something because that's just a normal response to food.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Is it hope that it might work? There was early attempts at using it. For just anybody who knows about diagnostics, it's the worst thing in the world. It has very poor sensitivity and specificity for uncovering anything. And nobody wants a diagnostic test that never gives you an answer of no.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
If you're always diagnosed with you're sensitive to something, that is like a grifter's dream and not a great sensitivity test. So yeah, I... I got the people are making money out of it. There is anecdotal like evidence that people are saying like, I told me I was high on this and I cut it out. And like those, the action taken from it may well be real.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like if you score high on wheat and then you have like IBS and you cut out wheat, which is like a major source of FODMAPs, like you might feel better. Like there's biological plausibility for how these things could work in a way for somebody to, that didn't ever really require the test, but they also didn't get, maybe they didn't have access to a dietician or a physician who, who knew something.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So you can stumble into, I think something that works, but, but it's like the clock being right.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think the question is like, it's like, are eggs good or bad for like, for who? Um, and their eggs are like nutrient dense foods that I think, uh, I mean, I'm not here to endorse any food in particular, but like, um, the impact of them on a dietary cholesterol, like on LDL cholesterol, it's like quite small.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But like, I don't want to gaslight people who have done it and say that they've had a benefit from it, but it doesn't mean that it's indicated for the entire population.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
well yeah i mean the gold standard in gi like clinical diabetic practice is just like elimination food logging and then like symptom logging and then trying to like review that after some time and then trialing elimination diets um so it's not it's like not high tech i think it's just very sexy but like there are there are other diagnostic tests out there like everyone wants to optimize around like micronutrients and so people will measure micronutrient like there's like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think it's spectra cell, but you can, and there's probably others now at this point, but I've had patients come to me with like, I got my micronutrient panel and all the amino acids. And it's all from their white blood cells, which white blood cells are not like a validated matrix to measure any of these things.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And say like when you measure something in the blood, you don't really care about the blood. Usually you care about like how much is in a tissue and whether that nutrient is performing the function that it's supposed to perform for your physical, your health and maintaining your physiology. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and so measuring the amino acid levels of white blood cell isn't really telling you about whether you have enough amino acids in your liver, but it's on your muscle tissue or your muscle.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like it's, but it's implied that, that it's somehow useful. I think this is something for like laboratory testing in America. Like there's more regulations around making sure that you get the same answer twice than there is about whether the answer is meaningful. And so we have a lot of laboratory tests that like I've, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
had patients come to me with full cardiovascular risk panels with all these like cytokines and things I've never even like heard of. And I go look up the reference from the laboratory test and it's like one study shows that it's slightly improved specificity and sensitivity in predicting who would have a 30 day readmission in patients. So patients
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
who were like at risk of it, who had just had a heart attack inpatient, whether they'd be readmitted 30 days later is now being measured on somebody who's like just a normal, generally healthy population. And like, even in those inpatient people, like your blood cholesterol and your BMI, the majority of the bulk of it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so there's no added value even in the setting it was tested, but you have to go to PubMed and understand diagnostic tests.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. And I think a lot of practitioners are not nearly as like a lot of alternative practitioners sell this stuff and they're either not being skeptical or know that it sort of is a buy-in to hook people in for longer. It gives them something to do. I think patients leave always wanting to feel like they, this is the classic parting gift, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
The antibiotics for viruses. Yeah. And then nutrition, I think it's something similar. And often it's a huge problem with the scope of practice of dietitians of like, a lot of it is education. Like, I mean, inpatient stuff, you're like, you have specific prescriptions for formulas and whatnot.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But like, if you're just educating people on based off of like what they told you and you're telling them what you think the diet should look like. And I think it's always, it's should for good dietitians that we really need to be trying to like deliver something. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think, you know, if you're somebody who's at elevated risk, you might be counseled to consume less, um, And if you're somebody who's not, the general population data largely doesn't implicate them as at least anywhere near the top of nutritional priorities anybody should be coming up with.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like I try and have spreadsheets available for patients where they can see the math that I have and like, just to feel like they're getting something and do like a little meal plan. I teach people how to meal plan with like a coded Excel spreadsheet if they want that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But to feel like you're delivering something, because that's often a lot with the alternative practitioners have, and they get a ton of money out of like, you know, you have to pay for those tests and then they're coming back again and again to review it. And, and, but none of them are really indicative of like, They're not doing what they say they're doing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
They're measuring the status of a nutrient in your body. And then there's no trials showing that randomizing people to getting this test versus not are actually improving any clinical outcome.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
In America, there's not really as many federal regulations as you might think. So there are it's like very state by state dietitians. It's like typically it's a protected title in a state. And so you have to have gone through a specific series of like now it's a graduate curriculum that we call the didactic program and dietetics.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So your didactic courses and then like a thousand hours of supervised practice and then pass an exam and then you can be a dietitian. Nutritionist is not. And that's like a master's? Now it's a master's. It used to be bachelor's entry level. So you'll see a mix out there, but it's increasingly all masters. So I teach in one of the master's programs at UC Berkeley.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So your goal is to train people who are meeting specific educational thresholds and clinical thresholds and get exposure to the general population, everything through people doing nutrition support where they're either tube feeding or IV nutrition, like TPN on patients. Got it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
um and so that's like a protected title and that you you should not be using the saying you're an rd if you're not actually an rd yeah uh nutritionist is not a protected title and so i want to be clear this is specific to america other countries have more protected terminology around like the uk has like a registered nutritionist and they have a registered dietitian credential we don't have anything on nutrition um so when someone says they're a nutritionist what does that mean
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
gives you zero information about the person's training, background.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And there are important sources of nutrients that are, like I did my PhD in choline, which eggs are uniquely a rich source of, and that's quite important during pregnancy. And so I think we lose some of the nuance of nutrient needs and optimal food patterns and things vary a bit across the lifespan and with different reproductive states, for example.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You're a nutritionist. Congratulations. No, but literally you don't eat anything. I see people, they did a two-day workshop on the weekend and then they're like, I'm a nutritionist, a career changer. Some of the people who are the most influential nutritionists online have no like formal training in any of this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
A lot of it's like people coming up, like got into bodybuilding and they have like the physique that somebody wants and then they sell nutrition plans and will call themselves a nutritionist over time but don't have any like formal training.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, I have met like deans and heads of endocrinology programs who go, Kevin, what's the RD after your PhD? And I'm like, you probably shouldn't tell me if I was an endocrinologist. You don't know what the dietitian is. But this is a problem I think for dietitians too is like, and nutrition becomes its own little insular world. I mean, it's like a, We have the EARs and the RDAs and the DRIs.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
The DGAs, we have a whole acronym soup that is not really accessible unless you've trained in it that doesn't help us. And even just like what is an RD? It's a full acronym soup. But I think RDs need to get out there and interface more. A lot of what inpatient RDs even, how many times did you interact with an RD in your medical training?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I'm like less cagey about it. I'm like, call me whatever the fact, you know, I exist. Great for me. I mean, I always have a problem because dietetics is like 90% female. And so I always got mistaken. They were like, oh, the medical resident. I'm like, no, I'm the dietetic intern. Okay, got it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But yeah, dietitians, I think, you know, are humble, quiet, you know, they're fought to be recognized as like a clinical profession. You know, there's a lot of historical sexism and feel is 90% female for a reason. It comes out of the field of home economics.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then it really gets launched by like the wartime, like World War II in particular, where there was like high rates of malnutrition, lots of concerns about the readiness of soldiers, making sure the food supply was adequate for both feeding people adequately at home and soldiers. And so dietetics got like a big launch there. But it's, I think, struggled.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Back in biochemistry just was nutrition in like the 1940s. And so there was a very gendered, like if you are interested in nutrition and you're a man, you go become a nutritional biochemist. And then if you're a woman, you go into dietetics and a lot of like really bad-ass women like fought that. And you see like PhD RDs at various institutions who have done great work, but yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think in general, the field still struggles to like be recognized, taken as like a serious STEM major. A lot of people, like when you're an undergrad, you don't think, at least in America, you don't think like I might be pre-med or I might be pre-nursing or I might be like pre-dietetics. Like that's just not, it's not a thing. So you have to have heard about dietetics in some way.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
No, no. I mean, so dieticians are like... it'd be great to go to dietitians. Dietitians are also overkill. We're medically trained professionals who can go and feed a baby with short gut in the NICU who just survived NEC and needs TPN. There's a really advanced skill set of dietitians and not everybody needs that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think you should go to people that you trust, that you have a rapport with, that are not selling you a bunch of stuff at every angle. You feel like you're getting good coaching motivation experience.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think for the general population, yes. Like you might run into something where it's like your diet is really low and something you're, you have a restricted diet, you're vegan or whatever. Like they might tell you to take a B12 supplement and that's like totally fine. General, you might not have much dairy and I might recommend like a calcium supplement.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think when it's like this person seems to be pushing their affiliate code link on every single person that they're interacting with, that you should become a bit skeptical. But like I've had patients like I would meal planning takes a lot of time. I'm not going to do that for free. So if somebody wants to pay for like a full meal, that's paying for the service of the thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, no, I don't think there's anything that I would like think of every patient that I'm like, oh yeah, they needed that. Like every single one of them needed that. Like it has to be individualized and it should be like, even in patients, unless it's like you eat zero B12 and you need B12. Like I'm medically saying do this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, it's definitely the minor case. But I think if somebody recommends a product to you once, I definitely want people to walk away with this. It's not a crazy thing to recommend a product once. It's when somebody is giving you a cookie cutter thing. They're telling you it's got magical benefits. These are the red flags I usually encourage people to look for.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
For sure. I mean, I even, I have to be careful about this. I've done work in like control trials in choline and it's like one of the nutrients that I'm like have the most perceived expertise in. And we had industry funding for it, but I get all these patients referred to me to talk about choline. And like, I have to be careful to be like, they want me to come tell them take choline.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I'm like, I want you to go see someone else, to be honest. So you should work with somebody that, again, you trust is clearly minimizing conflicts of interest, is not trying to push something on you. It depends. Pregnant women, your practitioner probably should be saying to take a prenatal and an omega-3 because that's what's standard of care.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Right.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, so the, the product of like a single product being recommended this, I think maybe this is where like nutrition and drugs are really different. So like often patients are coming to me asking for a product. They want my take on like this specific brand of yogurt. Do I buy it or not? Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so a lot of what nutrition ends up being, you have to interface with the marketplace in a way that is not behind a prescription pad. And so people are going to tell you about products all the time if you're talking to a dietician or anybody in nutrition. And that alone isn't a red flag. It's somebody who's dying on the hill of, like, Follier is better than Chobani.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Those are the red flags I want people looking for a bit more of, like, this feels off. They're married to this one thing. There's no flexibility for me because... Outside of the PKU patient where you need to restrict phenylalanine, nutrition isn't very hyper-prescriptive.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Even on things where you might think it's prescriptive, like calorie counts and everything, there's so much error in our estimates. There's so much error in the amount that's in food. All of it is, again, guardrails over prescriptions.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Oh, I like academics. I'm like, I want to write my, the book I want to write is an entire history of like nutrition, like, you know, something overly wonky that 12 people will buy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I just wrote a 20 page review article on all nutritional guidance in America, dietary guidelines, nutrient reference, all the things that shaped their evolution over time. And so, um, that'll be out eventually. But I like, I was like spending hours on internet archive, like reading 1890s, like dietary plans from the USDA. And like, that's the nerdy stuff that I like more.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So, which again makes no money. So, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think we might be at a point where the public is getting tired. You can go find anybody to say anything is good or bad in a sort of a deterministic way. We're at the point now where you turn on social media and everything from vegan to carnivore is the optimal way. And it's just like, well, that just can't be true.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, a lot of times with a dietician, it's going to depend on whether you know somebody or can find somebody locally. Oftentimes, ideally, it would be referred by a physician. So your primary care that you trust and have a rapport with, I think, is a good place to lead you in the right direction. If it's just weight loss, they'll know about what you've done lifestyle-wise.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think there's more and more realization. Lifestyles are going to be a small impact in starting something like the GLP-1s. So they might be able to start you on that, and then you might go see nutrition counseling on the side as needed. But it depends, I think, a little bit on what your specific concerns are.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I would love to say go see a dietician, but I'm also aware that there are like 100,000 dieticians in the country. There's not that many of us. We don't get referral.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
This is why I want, there's a lot of talk about nutrition being taught in medical school and those ACGME hours are like fought after. And like the five hours that you guys end up getting of nutrition, I think are going to be great because you're not going to become nutrition experts in that time. But somebody will tell you at some point, like this is the difference between RD and a nutritionist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You would think so. So some of the, I did my postdoc at Baylor College of Medicine and they have like, they already had a nutrition education for a while and the RDs like teach it. And I know that they explain those basic differences of like when you do run into a nutrition problem, inpatient, outpatient, wherever it is, whatever your specialty is, like this is who to refer to.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And oftentimes it would be a dietitian if you want somebody who needs like a full nutrition assessment basically. Um, and it's not a bad place.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like to, you know, if you're going to spend 200 bucks on the supplement for a couple months, like you might as well just talk to somebody who's going to like actually take a deep look into your diet and talk about what are some like high level goals that you want to set, maybe some swaps that would be high impact for whatever your concerns are.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and just orient you to like this kind of landscape that we're focused in.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Well, cause you have like three minutes to do it. And so it's always a bit of a soundbite. I mean, I, as a patient have had doctors, like I usually hide that what I do. Cause otherwise I get like half of the appointment I'm paying for is talked about the nutrition element of things. But I have a patient like doctors, like my rheumatologist was like, yeah, you should go gluten free.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then I was like, you know, that's like a lot of work. Like, are you going to provide me any like resources on that? And she's like, Oh no, I just tell patients to do that. And I'm like, maybe don't like, there's no trial evidence for that being helpful for you. Like, I get that there's anecdotal evidence of it, but I'm like actually avoiding all gluten in the diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's like, you have to know highly educated on all the different ingredients and whether they might be gluten containing or not. It's not just like a throwaway advice, but I think that's what happens with doctors is like, throw away advice. You guys get training, like you'll touch on vitamins and stuff in your biochemistry classes and your sort of like early meds, MS1, MS2, like didactic training.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You touch on nutrition in different ways, but you never get education in food, which is the base of nutrition. You talk to doctors about like what food compositions are, how much B12 is there in different foods, like with the fatty acid compositions to different oils. Like this is all coursework in becoming a dietitian where you have to know the food science. You do food preparation.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think at some point you have to start to bring science to at least provide not a prescription, but some guidance and guardrails around what we think of as being relatively healthy and
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like you're taking, it's a hodgepodge career path of like, it's like you're taking anatomy and physiology and organic chemistry. And then you're taking a food science chemistry type class and And then you're preparing food and you're taking a community nutrition class. It's just, you get like a broad array of like everything. And that's like a full four year degree.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
The idea that doctors can do that, can do that. And then like there is data randomizing people to like counseling from a dietitian versus other practitioners, dietitian versus nothing. How much frequency of dietetic visits do you need? And it's like, typically like six visits a year, hour long.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like, so every couple of months basically coming back up and that improves like blood lipids and blood pressure and weight, like meaningfully, but marginally. So the idea to me that like in those hour long counseling sessions that are hyper individualized with like an assessment and follow up that like dieticians are producing, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
solid but like small massive effects that a doctor is like giving out a pamphlet and it's throw away and you know people who like obviously we both know danielle bilardo and her patients i think do wonderfully and she's got like tons of information for them and she's got real people really like hyped up that are hyper motivated about lifestyle but for the most part for the average doctor that's out there like just a throwaway comment like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
it's unlikely to do a lot of good. And I've also seen it do harm where like people misinterpret the advice in some way, or they say, Oh, this person told me I'm like, I mean, I get on a scary amount of people, physicians calculating what it would take to be a normal BMI and what their current BMI is. And they tell them like how many calories to eat per day being like some super low number.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
diet but i think i would like like the public to just be a bit less prescriptive and also look at diet as sort of we can't know things like we don't have the precision in our research tools to know things as like deeply and specified as people would want to um and i think uh like the general guardrails essentially is what nutrition science is going to provide you and like eating more fruits and vegetables eating more legumes and nuts and seeds and then
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
super low calories and saying, well, your BMI is 32 right now and you need to lose this number of pounds to be a BMI less than 25. And it's like defeating for the patient where they're like, I got no support or evidence. All he did was tell me that I need to lose a ton of weight that I have no idea how to lose. And so that sort of stuff is, has like off side effects that I think we don't want.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so I want doctors to be advocates for nutrition, like in the inpatient setting.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, we should be able to have a conversation and it should be not me teaching you the acronyms and you being like, what is an RDA? Who are you? Kind of what the state of nutrition physician interaction is. And so I've talked with a lot of nutrition physicians who they themselves are like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
outlier people because you guys don't have formal fellowship training in nutrition they're often peds gi or endocrinology that do like some nutrition fellowship training or like a one year of like nutrition focus afterwards but they're just a handful and so we need more dietician physician kind of interaction you know position statements should be written together i think there needs to be more advocacy from the ama for coverage of dietetic services um
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, there's a little bit more that's happened with having like a big push for diagnosing malnutrition, like the inpatient setting that requires more physician, uh, dietician interaction. And so I have hope for the future for sure. But like we have this entire career path that is like, like you, we want nutritionists in society.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We have a like legislated, you know, standardized way of doing that as RD, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You don't even need the two day course. Like, I mean, and so this gets into like, there's a huge political battle here. Cause like you both from a right and a left perspective, you don't have support for like having some sort of credential around nutrition because, um, like even if dietitians have a title act, they don't always have a practice act per state that like, so that, uh,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
there's not legislation around you as an RD. Like I, in California, I don't have to have a license as an RD. We don't even have licensure. Cause the left once there's tends to historically has been more friendly to like alternative medicine type stuff. And the sort of alternative practitioners are huge opponents of dietetic licensure.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then on the right, there's sort of like typically like a freedom to practice freedom of choice of who your provider is. There's kind of some overlap on the extremes. Yeah. But I think it's just in general, there hasn't been like support for state or federal, like broad, um, saying like, just like physicians are like, we are the physicians.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then there are all these alternative practitioners. And it took things like the DOs a while to kind of get recognized at the same level as MDs. Um, there's not a lot of like strong political capital fighting for like, we need to have like, this is the credential nutrition practitioner that people should see and should be referred to and should be covered in insurance. So, um, it's a huge mass.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There was an attempt to get dietetic coverage for the, it was called a medical nutrition therapy act and it was submitted in 2020, but it was never really, obviously 2020 was a busy year. So I know that there's effort now to get a new, something submitted before Congress so that it can be pushed through. Cause right now Medicaid only covers dietetic, it only reimburses for dietetic services.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Once you already have type two diabetes or chronic disease. It's the least prevention-focused thing you can imagine. You have to have the disease. If you have prediabetes, it's not going to get reimbursed.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Different insurances cover different amounts of dietetic visits, but if you have cancer and you're losing excess amounts of weight and struggling to get... If you're a family member with somebody with cancer and you're like, I have no idea how to feed them, you can't just go see a dietician who have lots of knowledge and strategies about that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
As a society, we need to take nutrition so much more seriously and actually fund it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
if you have a specific problem, then like tailoring the diet around that with the help of like a dietitian or physician can like allow for the more specifics. But a lot of the hyper specification of things I think is just to sell you a brand or a product or whatever.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, I mean, when I talk about dietetic reimbursement and coverage, it's like the landmark trials like the Diabetes Prevention Program that were just like study dietitians were involved in individualizing the lifestyle intervention arm of the DPP. Like, we need to nationalize that trial, basically. And it's not... there was no turmeric, there was no magnesium stuff.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like there was, there was no gut microbiome testing. It was just like dieticians, you know, a little bit more intensively and then sort of phased out in the DPP. And then the look ahead trial was sort of the followup, the DPP, um, that was a bit more intensive, but we need those style interventions rolled out at like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
national levels that have coverage and you should be able to get involved in this. And America's just never funded prevention seriously. And so it's left open to people who have the resources to go see alternative practitioners who are kind of getting sold magic in a pill that may or may not feel like magic to them at the
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
broad scale societal level improvements and rates of obesity and things like that. We just got the newest numbers in August for 2021 to 2023 and the levels of obesity are still like 40%. And so yeah, there's a lot, I mean, I don't think I'm not selling this as like dietetic reimbursement to like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
fix all ales like we need policy at every single level but uh i think in the societal inaction around nutrition and prevention both from we barely fund it research wise we barely reimburse it on the care side of things we don't really take policy around legislating what the food industry can do and formulation everything from formulation to advertising like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
just nutrition is not taking seriously at every single level. And that totally allow and couple that with physicians not getting much time with patients and people feeling not heard or like they have any spent time with them. Alternative practitioners are going to like have a field day, totally thrive in that space. And it's obviously like a unique subset that, um, can actually afford that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But I increasingly see patients who come to me and they're like, Oh yeah, I used to, I used to see this practitioner and they told me all these things. And they're also telling me about how financially stressed they are. And I'm like, how are you paying for like 200 bucks a pop to see a chiropractor and all these supplements and things?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so it's, there's a huge financial incentive to be seen as like offering the way, the truth and the light around diet and it for it to be what looks like anti-establishment quite often. Yeah. And that's not to say that there's nothing wrong. Like there's a lot of nutrition, official nutrition advice has a lot of flubs along the way.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so, um, I think it used to be, I think that there has been a thought like from more than a national level and from like thought leaders in the field that, Oh, supplements are just, we don't need to like regulate them beyond the dishe act from the nineties. Like it's just a rich people thing. They're not really harming themselves.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But like now we are in a totally different world where everybody from every walk of life is dealing with these e-commerce based, uh, social media platforms where they're being sold tons and tons of products. And I think it's concerning for the general population that's being basically lied to about the efficacy of products and oftentimes isn't even buying what we think they're buying.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But I often think about it in the lens, too, of like, you know, you might think saying, oh, whatever is anti-inflammatory is harmless for the general population. But you have a highly... motivated subset of the population that has chronic inflammatory diseases. So we actually want to know, like, do those supposed anti-inflammatory things work? But they're the first ones buying them.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I am always worried about, like, protecting the vulnerable subpopulations that are going to be preyed upon, essentially, by people making ridiculous claims without evidence behind them. which becomes like this chicken and egg issue. Like you have to fund the research infrastructure and the studies to get data to say whether things work or don't work.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think at the federal level, we've just never, we funded some nutrition and you'll see like numbers quoted about how much of the NIH budget is nutrition. But like that includes like if you knock out a neuronal population and a mouse model and study how it affects food intake. So those are like massively overinflated. If,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
If you actually look at the number of clinical trials intervening with food or supplements across a range of things that people care about, it's minimal data, if any. We've sunk a lot into vitamin D and omega-3s and antioxidants for cardiovascular disease.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But I think a lot of people nowadays, and this is a good thing, and I think interfacing more with what the general population wants is important to drive research agendas. People just want to feel good. They want to feel energized. They want to feel like their quality of life has been improved.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And when you go look in the literature for like, does this supplement actually improve people's quality of life? Does it improve their sleep? Do they feel less groggy? Is their mental health better? We are just scratching the surface on that and don't have the research money to even seriously investigate the things that the public cares about and is asking of nutrition.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yes. And the claims are out there in abundance and it's up to you as an individual, even like you and I, like, I mean, I have a lot of knowledge. I still don't have, I can't just know things that we don't have trial data for. And so it is up to me to decide if the internet, my algorithm thinks I am both a pregnant woman because I do pregnancy research.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I understand the lack of like trust in nutrition science and there's polling to show that there's lack of trust in it. I think a lot of that starts with like some humility from the field about like how deeply we can know things. I think there's some people who think that we just need shout it louder and say that the data is stronger than it is.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So I got a lot of interesting things, but also knows I have like chronic autoimmune issues. And so I get everything. Like there are 50 supplements a week that are pushed to me that are a cure all. And I'm like, I could not afford to try all of those. And it would take years to try all of them. And so it's just any, I think a lot of people are like, oh, I love this supplement.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
This guy is saying that there's no evidence for it. Like yada, yada. I don't want it to be supplement by supplement at a time when you look at it. But like when you look at the totality of what is marketed to people, there is not the data to back up any of these things or the majority of the claims that they're making. And I think we as a society, like taxpayer dollars are funding research.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We should be seriously thinking, you know, for the current administration, like about, we should fund things that people care about. And it not just be like, you know, antioxidants for cardiovascular disease, but like mental health is a big one. Like how does diet impact mental health? If I wanted to do a study on that right now, I don't even know who would fund it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I'd have to write a really compelling grant to the NIH to maybe fund it. It would be hard to find the infrastructure to do it as well as I'd want to do it. The food industry may or may not chip in some dollars for it. But the funding model and research is very much like NIH does a lot of the basic stuff, a little tiny bit of clinical trials, very little in nutrition.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then you have pharma as outsourced to do all the clinical research. And a lot of the non-pharmaceutical intervention space is just starved. I mean, we saw this during COVID. I would love it if we lived in a research environment where you could just do a mask RCT in sort of a pragmatic way, but we don't have a nationalized healthcare system.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's not clinical research infrastructures set up within our medical system. So there's huge limitations for understanding any non-pharmaceutical intervention, including nutrition, including supplements. that are always going to hold us back from ever having like the evidence base to say what works and what doesn't.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And that'll get the public to kind of adhere to what official dietary guidance is. And I'm not, I don't fully appreciate, or I don't fully agree with that approach.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
The FTC does not have the budget to enforce that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. I mean, I think that's like the way that supplements kind of taken over and work, but I definitely agree that it's in like women, anything that affects women in general, menopause and pregnancy are two big areas, but also like endometriosis. I've seen more and more content around that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And you just also like diet optimized for what phase of the menstrual cycle you're in has been like a really big thing that I'm like, I wish there was, I mean, there's like, there's like I think one randomized controlled trial looking at this that finds no results, but you find people out there like you're doing seed cycling that you need to eat different types of seeds during the luteal phase.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I'm like, yeah, nobody has funded that study. It's, it feels like, you know, when, once you, this is one thing I, it takes some investment, but that's why these long form podcasts are good.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But like, once you start and think like, did we fund a well-powered randomized controlled trial to ask whether, but say, I think these statements that you're saying, these words you're using, I don't think most people knows what that means. Just an interventions that like, like, asking yourself whether a claim someone's making, it has been actually tested.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's likely that someone has tested this to the degree needs to be tested, which is usually a tons of people beyond, beyond an anecdote. Like did researchers get together? Even if you don't fully understand like the research process, cause it can be quite nebula, like a very black box, but like, like basic question, like who would have funded this study?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I encourage patients who are interfacing with all of this to just ask questions like, what study showed that? Can you send me the link? And obviously it's for very motivated patient populations that are gonna do this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
A lot of times people can't tell you. I'm happy to tell you the name of the study, the citation, the year. For the things I'm telling folks, I feel very uncomfortable giving a recommendation based off of data that I don't know, primarily at least the guideline that summarized that data.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But all these practitioners that are out there just making up wild claims, they're genuinely just making stuff up or repeating things that they heard.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It was like insulin intensive.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, with like old school drugs, like with just insulin, not with like modern drugs.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, no, I just on Twitter, there was the most rigorous diet trial ever done was being talked about as a Minnesota coronary experiment, which is like in reality, the most failed diet trial that was ever done. Like it was in mental hospitals when they were deinstitutionalized. People only got the intervention for like a year.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. Um, I mean, so we know the general, like essential nutrients, which is great. Um, you know, I'm going to, I think we should stick, like, I always like to couch this as a, like most people care about nutrition and chronic disease and they're not like interested in like acute inpatient nutrition care. We have like RCTs and things, but.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It was like 80% dropout rate, like every violation of a rigorous randomized controlled trial. But it was being presented to people like this is the most rigorous trial. So yeah, Somebody can certainly send you a PubMed ID and that alone is not enough to say whether something works or not or whether they're an expert or not.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Some of this, it's so gauche to say nowadays, I guess, but you need to have some expertise and some training in it. If somebody hasn't done clinical trials themselves or hasn't done extensive training, they should understand what a clinical trial is and they're giving you specific recommendations and health advice. That's like a red flag on its own.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But I understand why there is sort of like anti-expertise sentiment and distrust of medicine. So it is at some point people in medicine are going to have to like address this. The fact that we have turned medicine into a business and limited people's times to get to know. We're like so far beyond the like I know my local primary care physician and see them at like the grocery store or whatever.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's so divorced and kind of inhumane feeling. And I think what people are seeking is just like someone who makes them feel human.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
so I think of supplements as doing what the name implies. So like there are, there are supplements, the phrase dietary supplement is regulated in a way that includes many, many things, everything from like protein powders and meal replacements, um, nutrient supplementation.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then you've got like bioactives where people are playing naturopath where they're like treating chronic diseases with like bioactive extracts and you've got probiotics. And so, um, it is when people say supplements, like it is kind of like what supplement, um, there are things that dieticians are using all the time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like in the hospital, we're like regular, we have a whole category of things like oral nutrition supplements that we use to help people get their calories and protein up. And that is common in outpatient nutrition for somebody who's like at risk of malnutrition.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's not uncommon to like recommend a protein powder for folks that have some sort of goal and are struggling to meet for a healthy population.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Even for the general population, a protein powder, I think, is a very common supplement that is not evidence-based.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, and this is where food is not a prescription. The level of evidence impetus you need for a drug to prescribe something is a lot higher than... We estimate your protein goals between 1.2 grams per kilo, 1.6 grams per kilo for the type of exercise that you're doing. ACSM recommends that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Nutrition knows different things in different sectors, but in nutrition and disease kind of health outcomes, there's things like women of reproductive age should take folic acid to reduce the likelihood of having a neural tube defect. Like the evidence is pretty solid on that front. Not perfect, but solid.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You're not getting that easily or struggling to get that or bored from eating too much Greek yogurt and chicken breast or whatever. We can incorporate a protein powder in there. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think it's within the evidence, but is there a definitive randomized control trial showing that this is amazing? No.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, I think almost everything is guardrails. There are like, again, the B12 for vegans, but also for older adults that you have much higher incidence of B12 deficiency above the age of 50. It's recommended to get crystalline B12 either through fortified foods or supplements beyond that age because the gastric absorption decreases.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, calcium and vitamin D is one that you'll see quite commonly, particularly in postmenopausal women who are not eating that many calories to begin with. It's kind of hard to reach recommended levels. So like when you're below sort of a benchmark, kind of a target nutrient that we go for, it's very common for a dietitian to recommend a supplement to truly supplement the diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, I think when you get into like bioactives, um, it's a, it's a whole, it's a lot of greens. What about it?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I have never purchased athletic greens personally or ever recommended it. Green powders in general are like, you know, they have, this is a classic labeling thing that people do where it will be a blend and, And they have to legally like list it by weight, but you don't know what their proprietary blend is like.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And they'll be like, oh, it has chlorella and spirulina and all these like magical sounding algae. But then the first ingredient is like spinach. Like it's like freeze dried spinach. And then they put it in milligrams instead of grams. So it sounds like there's a ton of it. Like there's $5,000. grams of this in there.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And like, like if you got out of scale and trying to weigh freeze dried spinach powder at five grams, you're like, wait, that's all that's in this per serving. Um, so there, there is a lot of these products that are just like hodgepodge is where they throw, um, It's a very expensive multivitamin with like a bit of a soluble fiber, maybe a probiotic, a bunch of bioactives.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's never been tested in the formulation that it's in. Are there 14 person randomized control trials from some university study that showed that it changed some marker for an individual ingredient? That's common. Yeah, but like... It's not really what we would think of as like rigorous evidence that says the whole general population.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I recommend a multivitamin as an insurance. I orient people like this is an insurance policy. You're probably low on a lot of things, but like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There is a lot, you know, early in around the 1950s, 1960s, you start to get the emergence of the basic cardiometabolic disease risk factors of Elevated body weight, elevated blood cholesterol, elevated blood pressure, and then sort of insulin resistance and blood glucose diabetes sort of emerged beyond that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I'm not going to go order a bunch of somewhat nonspecific labs trying to assess that a lot of diet and nutrition counseling is like using the DRIs as sort of like, so the dietary reference intakes, there are like estimated average requirements essentially for the nutrients. And so we use those as like a benchmark to like, again, as guardrails, it's not hyper specific, but yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, if people are super low in it, they might be recommending a nutrient supplement. Um, iron of course is very common. Um, but doctors are more involved in the iron than just the RDs are. Um, yeah. And I, I don't really come in hitting it hard with supplements. Um, I get, again, I get a lot of the pregnant patients that come to me and they want me to tell them to take a choline supplement.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I'm like, Oh, Um, which is like a genuine, I think that's a great example of like, I was involved in the research of it, but it had like a, um, industry funding and the, I want professional medical organizations to take a much bigger role than they are taking in some of the hot topic things that are out there.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like I can't point to guidance from the American college of obstetrician gynecology on choline supplementation because they haven't, The evidence is at a point where it's like... You could make a statement. Practitioners are talking about it. I know a lot of OBGYNs who are already recommending it. And I'm like, I want an authoritative guideline. That's why you guys exist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Right now, they just sort of talk about it as like eat enough from the diet. And this is what the adequate intake value from the National Academies is. But that doesn't tell you anything about supplements. That's just a food-based thing. And so Danielle Abulardo led the American Society of Preventive Cardiology practice paper on this consensus for lifestyle and diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And we had a long talk and ended up including a bit in there about supplements. Because it's amazing how much every major guideline committee, because there's not much evidence for it, they just sort of like ignore it and say like, Oh, we don't even talk about this in our guidelines. I'm like, but that's a problem.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You should be talking about it in your guidelines and you should be saying, you know, and there are some supplements with like a much more data. I guess one, one of the, I should have mentioned was like a psyllium husk fiber has some good data in IBS. Um, and so like potential relief of symptoms there, otherwise relatively harmless, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
That's one I will commonly recommend for both constipation and for IBS symptoms.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Well, so it lowers LDL, but the cardiology societies don't say much about that because there's no cardiovascular endpoint trial with psyllium husk fibrin.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. I mean, it's one though, where like, I, you have to have a very tempered, I think guideline committees are holding back from providing any guidance on a individual practitioners that are left without the guideline committee to like kind of refer to. And it sort of just ends up being whatever that practitioner, but they're happy to put a heart on a Cheerios box. All right.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so there are a lot of controlled feeding trials where we can, in a short-term setting, manipulate the diet under very controlled like everything weighed on a gram scale to the 0.1 gram precision diet. Um, for anywhere from like two weeks to sometimes you get longer than you definitely get longer than that for sure. Like out past six weeks, um, some controlling the diet for like up to 12 weeks.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Supplements are a weird, because there's minimal standards around. They have to be safe, what's supposed to be in there. What's on the label is supposed to be what's in there, but we know that these things get violated all the time. There's also concerns about, even for psyllium, the heavy metal content of them, depending on where it's grown, soil it's grown in.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's not as much regulation as you'd think there should be, or enforcement of the regulation that exists. And so like, I would, I would love it if we had more regulation of supplements around. So I could say like, Oh yeah, you'll get like, it's good for your constipation.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You might lower LDL a little bit with psyllium and know in the back of my mind that if I tell you to do this every day for the next six years and you actually do it, that you're not like slowly accumulating.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yes. Yes. Fair. Which is a hot topic that consumers ask about all the time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There is excitement in the field, for sure. I'm putting on my politician hat right now. There are... It's a mixed bag. I know some people who are aligned with the administration and around it who are operating in good faith and want to change things. And I understand that... There was a national conversation around diet that I would argue has never been this loud. Michelle Obama tried.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like, I just want to give it up to her. Many people have tried over the years. It hasn't always taken off and it's gotten partisan. Like Michelle Obama's attempts to like lower sodium in the school lunch program alone was just like totally pilloried. Um, uh, but yeah, so like now I, I understand the enthusiasm. I do have a lot of concerns about our bedfellows in this situation.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so like, there is a lot of false dichotomies around like infectious disease versus metabolic health as though you can't do both. Like there's nothing that says you can't. a vaccine and also improve diet. And like, it's like, we don't need to say like, you know, there's like a recent enthusiasm about vitamin A for measles. And I was like, just endorse the MMR.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then like, there's no trials in the developed world for vitamin A. Like there's some of these things that are frustrating, um, from enthusiasm for things that don't have evidence. And then skepticism about things that do like vaccines. And then there's, I think a lot of like a vibe around the chemicals in food are bad. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
which at a high level, we can have conversations about food additives and things, but there has been a lot of, um, overstatement of the, the risk of like food dyes is a like torture scene. I think there was a video about saying that it's linked to all these issues. And I think, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
the effect size of like, we remove Tartrazine and wait 20 years to what happens to population metrics, all else staying the same. Like, I don't think we will detect any differences in really anything. Um, and so that is a concern that like the things that there's so much enthusiasm and action around are not, um, the most high impact interventions.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And they sort of are like the easy things like, yeah, you, just remove the approval for the utility, the ability for the food industry to add this. Well, cause it scores political points. So like, I think it might have some utility on its own, but yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, where we know that changing the diet composition, particularly the fat composition can influence blood cholesterol levels. Changing sodium can influence blood pressure levels. Same with potassium, um, Um, and then we have, so we, we know a lot about dietary fat composition and blood lipids basically, cause they're like a major risk factor that change independent of weight.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. Like maybe you do a low hanging fruit thing. I'm waiting to see whether they go for the high impact stuff. That's actually hard. Like the moment you have to start thinking about, well, how do we get less of whether the ultra processed foods, sodas, sodium and things like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Things where industry is going to have to substantially reformulate and change their products with the level of advertising that's done to people, especially kids is going to be reduced. Like these are the big hills that are labeling on the front. So front of package labeling is being explored right now from the last administration. There was a lot advanced forward, but.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
everywhere else in the world is front of package labeling that calls out like high levels of things. But quote unquote warning labels on foods are, have always been some close to a no go. And so maybe now there's political will for that kind of stuff, but there is going to be a bloodbath behind the scenes of industry fighting against this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I don't know that the will is really there at the end of the day. Like, Time will tell.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
The Steak and Shake just announced they're replacing seed oils with tallow. And I'm like, this is not a health win.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So just changing the composition of the diet has a pretty substantial effect on lowering total and LDL cholesterol. Um, we, we know things like the dash diet, which sort of takes our knowledge of not only sodium, but other elements of the diet. Um, it's the dietary approaches that stop hypertension, but there's
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think I feel pretty much the same. Like there's enthusiasm from many political angles. The vibes are right. I mean, I worry about the vibes of like, you know, we're trading in infectious vaccines for removing food additives. That's where I was like, I'm curious whether we will see any serious big action that actually like makes it across the finish line.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, I feel totally the same about like taking on a food additive that is fed a thousand times to rat, like a thousand fold the concentration of rats and seeing cancer, um, is not all that relevant to human exposures. And if you are getting enough of that food additive from those foods, it's probably coming with a whole bunch of other things that we don't want. So it's the package that's coming in.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like we're all, I think everybody wants more spinach and less pop tarts. Like that's But no one actually wants to do that. Except the carnivores. But yeah, but like the serious thinking about how do we as a society shift our current food environment? Like you go out and things are getting maybe slightly better, although there's questions about that. But
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
it's 80% of things that we probably shouldn't make up the majority of our diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like it's just the readily accessible, easy things are the things that are like extremely unlikely to be eaten in a way that maintains your body weight, extremely high in sodium, not the greatest fat composition, not very much fiber process to hell, which might influence a whole bunch of other things, or at least strip away some other protective components.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So you can list out all the things that might be the problem. But thinking about how do we as a society totally transformationally change the food system requires thinking about what we grow, the economics of what we grow, how it's produced, stored, processed, makes it into, formulated into what things that people are actually going to buy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And where you break the chain of the current system that we have that is somewhat self-reinforcing Is it's going to take serious regulation and there's going to be winners and losers in that. I don't trust that. I don't think that this administration has thought about that and knows the point at which it's going to go and take action.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like even if you have this big think idea of like, let's just ban all the ultra processed foods. where are you going to get a database of all the foods in society? How are you going to make sure that every company adheres that it's not a UPF? How are you going to make sure that they don't just reformulate things, which industry is amazing at doing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I've been watching the yogurt industry, the yogurt aisle change so much over time as people think whole fat dairy is good. Again, the sugar hasn't dropped at all in most of these foods and they take out some additives. So it looks more natural. I'm like, that's still a 250 calorie dessert posing as a breakfast food. Like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
big New England Journal of Medicine landmark trials on the DASH diet, basically showing you can get close to first-line pharmacological blood pressure lowering with diet by combining a number of elements.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so we could see a ton of reformulation that is not the direction that we want things to go in. I don't think the administration has picked who the winners and losers are going to be if they do anything dramatic with the policy. I don't even think they have the policy in mind of how things are going to change. Yeah, there are so many layers.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I was part of a Texas A&M like big panel as far as like re-envisioning the food system. And it just at every layer, every, you know, all the societal actors involved from what is grown to the growing of the food, the packaging, processing, formulation and selling it. They're all interventions you could sit across that entire life cycle there. I haven't seen a plan.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Maybe there will be one from the administration of all the policies they're thinking about because I don't think there's going to be one thing that solves it. It's going to be a confluence of many shifts, some carrots, some sticks that have to start to shift the food supply and ultimately incentivize producers to make food that is concordant with healthy body weight, healthy disease risk factors.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Access to RDs. Yeah. I mean, and that's a very small piece of it, but like, I don't, I don't, I mean, it's like education is a starting point for all this stuff. For sure.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I don't, I think we have to also, as much as we've talked about evidence here, I think we need to get very exploratory because you're going to run into the fact that we don't have like, where's the randomized like cluster trials that have tested out different policies in different States. They don't exist. Like we're going to have to take a leap of faith. I think in some ways that,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
and test things out i mean i think there's one of the politicians said lately they want to see like states be legal testing grounds for policies and seeing whether they work or not i think it was in the context like building more housing or whatever but i think nutrition could take something similar that like it's not just about i would love more research funding to understand nutrient requirements and pregnancy and the composition of processed foods and how they drive intake and what i think we need all that we need to invest in it
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So it's like reduced sodium, elevated potassium, like seven plus servings of fruits and vegetables a day, a few servings of nonfat dairy, and that all these things combined have sort of like an additive effect. On the DASH diet, I think it's one of my points I always bring up with patients is it's like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We also need to be thinking about at like the community level and the state level, what policies, what programs, what incentive programs there are for like buying more fruits and vegetables. There's things that have been lightly played around with, with like farmer's market two for one bucks or whatever. If you buy fruits and vegetables with your snap dollars.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so all of these things, we need to get like super creative and actually testing and measuring like, did this make an impact or not? Yes, no move on from it. If not, And doing it in a way that it doesn't take the current pace of research. We are so underinvested in nutrition research. It is too slow.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We will know in 45 years how the composition of ultra processed foods drives food intake behavior at the rate that we are able to produce data now. And by that point, we will be economically sunk from the cost of health care related to obesity and associated chronic disease. And the solutions to get more funding for the research. Absolutely, yes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, we have never taken nutrition research seriously. We currently have six USDA human nutrition research centers that have applauded for all that they are able to do, but we need to massively invest in that. Nutrition has been kind of weird.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It started under the USDA umbrella and then it's sort of gotten NIH funding, but we need a cohesive federal mission and tons of funding for everything from understanding what about our food drives food intake behavior and how we can allow that to be more aligned with our biology and weight regulation to what's the optimal diet for pregnant women.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We talked about this off the pod, but other things the administration is interested in, I've written some sub-stack articles on this, like the fluoride and IQ issue, the splashy meta-analysis that came out most recently, and JAMA Pediatrics had zero studies from America.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And it got painted in the media as though you need to be worried about fluoridated products when in reality it was like the naturally high levels of fluoride in China largely compared to lower levels and weak ecological study designs. And so there was an effort to have a national children's study in the US in about 2000. It never got off the ground, unfortunately.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But it was recognized in the year 2000 that we needed better data on environmental exposures and kids' development, when people are exposed during pregnancy, how does that influence childhood development, which there's a ton of interest in that now from the Maha Commission executive order is all about protecting people from chemicals and contaminants.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
If you go look for large cohort data that has either stored urine or stored blood and has assessed developmental outcomes and IQ and all these things, it doesn't exist. or it's these tiny little thrown together cohorts like what we did for lead and legislate lead around, which there's still big questions about because we don't have good nationally representative data.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
it's like seven or eight things in the diet that all cumulatively add up, but no one of them is like make or break it. Yeah. And it's sort of a good example of like diets effects tend to be really small, but like adding up a bunch of dietary changes and then doing that for a really long period of time cumulatively is like a net win.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So we need to like, we have pharma doing tons of awesome clinical trials that like, I don't want to pit the food versus pharma or anything. Like I, it's great that we have GLP ones and things, but we need to have, unless I don't know how you get a private version of that level of investment in food, which means you need government to,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And right now we have government research being cut, not amplified. So if the Maha commission and that those vibes are really going to do anything, they need to get really serious about funding the research. They get really serious about laying out like what are all the issues preventing what finally ends up on our fork being things that are more aligned with our biology and reducing disease risk.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So that has been, that has been my approach is to like, people are probably going to think I'm naive, like, but I'm like, I would rather say this is how to do it. I am not hearing the how this is where I would like to nudge you in the how direction, whether that will be actualized, actualized behind the scenes. I highly doubt, especially if like we're doging the entire research infrastructure.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think that helps orient people to like expectations around effect sizes. Cause you've got everything you turn on social media and like this supplement or this nutrient that we're all missing is the cure all. Yeah. And it's like that, I, those things are great as a researcher who has to do a power calculation for doing the clinical trial. Like I wish the effect size was so large.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like, Um, and I have a lot of friends in nutrition who are now don't have jobs because global health has been totally decimated. Um, and I think we should like absolutely condemn that kind of stuff.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We need to be principled about like, I will tell you what I think needs to happen on nutrition and I will turn around and critique you for your stance on vaccines if you're not coming out guns blazing on it. But there is a sort of like, you know, I think there's a perception that experts got us into the bad situations that we are in.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And there's some arguments for that individual cases, but I think of like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Profiting off of people has gotten us into like where health, why health care is the way that it is and the lack of the ability to profit off of diet and reducing environmental exposures is like a whole reason you need government investment in research because there's no private interest that's going to fund any of this stuff to the degree that needs to be funded.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And it's harder to study than drugs are. And so, yeah, I think people, the anti-expertise vibe that people have should really be like anti-MBAs. No offense to the MBAs, but like they've looked at how to turn every single thing that we're into into profit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You should hold government to a high standard to be confident. We should interrogate past failures. Why the National Children's Study failed should be used as a model to have the 2.0 version of it so that we get the data that we needed 25 years ago.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And in 25 years, we don't look back and not have it, but completely losing all faith in government and expertise and thinking that like, you're just gonna, you're going to rely on the goodwill of massive industries to change the food supply system. Good luck. We're privatizing everything about research right now. I've had these conversations with other nutrition researchers.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Almost all the younger folks I know who are hyped up about nutrition have gone off to jobs in industry because they don't see it as a career path. Really promising Researchers who have done folks studying how food impacts the microbiome, food impacts the childhood IQ, like all these things that people care about.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Everyone's looking at the landscape and saying, I'm not going to have a job in five years if I invest in this. Like we need to we should be concerned as a population that we don't we don't have people going to nutrition research because they think it's a viable career path because it's something that's going to be funded. I think about this all the time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I'm like, do I want to string together a little bit of USDA money, a little bit of foundation money, maybe some NIH grants and some food industry money to have like a coherent lab? And will that actually advance our understanding of human nutrition in a way that impacts people's health?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I seriously doubt until unless this is kind of like my swan song of like, if this administration wants to seriously change things, that would be amazing. But the field has seen retirees that haven't been replaced by people. And we are very much at the risk of just having like minimal nutrition research infrastructure. So it's an easy win, I think.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I'm kind of shouting the easy wins out for the administration now.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I needed to enroll six participants cause I'd see this magical effect of a magnesium or whatever, but the effect sizes are always quite subtle.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Saying it is the easy part. Do you have a plan behind the scenes to make the wheels of government turn to fund the research that needs to be done? I don't know. And hearing about we're just going to privatize everything. The federal workforce needs to get out into high-productivity private industry jobs, I'm like, that does not exist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
The food industry is not going to seriously fund and regulate itself.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
that are already skyrocketing. But we've had a wellness section of the food supermarket for decades. Industry is meeting the need of the desire that is there. It is just like human biology is driving people to eat things that are not the greatest for our health necessarily. And it's easy to hijack that biology by formulating foods that are readily available all the time and easily over-consumed.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And there's great work happening like in the intramural program in Kevin Hall's lab, like trying to at a very slow pace, not to his fault, but because of not being resourced adequately to understand what it is about processing that influences food intake, how it's like they're measuring what's happening with dopamine signaling in the brain through like there's an amazing PhD already Val Darcy who's doing work on that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I should be able to name dozens and dozens and dozens of these researchers across the United States that are doing everything they can to understand food, how to formulate it, how to best combat the poor state of health that we're in basically right now. I can't.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I can point to a small handful of people that are really struggling to take what little resources we have to understand how food impacts health. And I get the vibes of people just need to eat less ultra-processed foods. But the moment you go to industry and you have zero science and you say, you need to change, industry is going to fight you tooth and nail on all of that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I'd be so curious how that would go now. 10 years ago, that was a nanny state thing. But I think all the political parties have realigned to that. I'm not sure who would be accusing who of being the nanny state in that situation. It's very messy. You have to affect food access issues. I'm from the East Coast and have academically drifted all by driving all the way out to the West Coast.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I've seen all of middle America. I've seen huge parts of America where there are more DaVita dialysis clinics than there are supermarkets in the area. You have a lot of places I stopped where it's like, oh, this gas station is the grocery store. There are huge issues like that that we need to have a government that seriously thinks about these people in parts of America that feel left behind.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, NAFTA ruined a lot of things, but people feel left behind, rightly so. We need to think about addressing the health crises in rural America and making sure that people feel listened to and heard. And it's not just... A lot of this stuff sounds like crunchy granola, typically like Portland-esque eating patterns. And I don't see that getting a high uptake.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We don't need to air Juan more of the urban areas in America. We need to really seriously be thinking about the types of foods that are available, access to those, whether they're affordable. And I think we need to get innovative and creative and play around with state policy and things.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Good research and political will and a plan. Yeah, exactly. I'd be very curious to see that plan.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. Or like it needs to be a big intake differential that's occurring. So like some of the work I did in my PhD is on pregnancy, which we think of as like a uniquely stressed state for choline availability and the choline intakes are relatively modest or low and that you can.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like about the food itself or... Your choice.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You can change... Can I change our brains to not overconsume?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Well, I mean, just... I would change something about... So that it is not, I think there will always be some percentage of individuals who are like genetically predisposed to overeat, but I would, we need to change the majority of food composition in a way. And what is, you know, people are eating out more regularly.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
We need to change the food that is served to people and able to be bought in the food environment.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, this is something I honestly feel like we don't have the research to know. We've done a really good job in nutrition research understanding, like, we've done a decent job at trying to understand, like, what your total energy expenditure is, how many calories. We have non-nationally representative data for that, so I don't want to say it's great.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like, please fund doubly labeled water studies and NHANES. Um, so we understand what people's like the general population's energy expenditure is, but like the why people eat has gotten much less funding. And I think it's getting more funding.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Now you hear people talking about concepts like food addiction and things, but how to formulate foods other than feeding people bland lentils and brown rice and making that the only food option. Like, How do you formulate food so that it still tastes good, still culturally acceptable, and is not hijacking our reward systems and things to lead to overeating?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Whether we can even do that is still an outstanding question and I think is something that we need to answer very quickly to understand can we reformulate food. So I think the... Reducing the energy density of foods is like the easiest likely thing, although there's more factors that drive food intake there.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's a lot going on now into like how soft versus hard food is that drive potentially drive intake beyond even like what palatability does. And so it's going to be reformulating across some mix of these metrics to find the sweet spot that people eat enough, but not too much. Uh, we're not there yet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So the changes I would make, I mean like getting sodium down is a really, people have been trying to do that for decades now. It's gotten held up. Even voluntary sodium reductions have gotten held up because of political reasons. Um, but trying out alternative preservatives and getting sodium much lower, I think is one of the highest bang for your bucks. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think, you know, there's always a big focus on reducing saturates, but intakes are not super high right now in the population. Like there's still a little bit more room and there's still subsets of the population. So you might think I'm going to say like eat less saturated fat, but like people just need to eat less calories. I think the saturated fat would tend to fall in line a little bit more.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
intervene and significantly sort of alleviate that choline stress so like obviously a vitamin supplementation is going to do a whole bunch more if somebody is like deficient at baseline and you need a lot fewer participants because you just expect a bigger effect right but in like a well-nourished population like the u.s like i don't think a vitamin a supplementation is going to be like a magical necessarily so you need a huge number of participants
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
sugar, sweet beverages are still a big one. Um, that I think all of these things I should say have modest effects. Like again, diet is a cumulative of a lot of small things. So I don't want to overstate that. Like we'll stop. There was a lot of old stuff. I'm like, we'll stop obesity. People just stopped drinking sodas. That's massively overstating it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, but we've seen, I don't know if this is true for you, but in the Berkeley area, um, I'm like, I don't see people drinking sodas anymore. And there was like soda taxes locally and things. But I see like prepared drinks that like we traded in sodas for like cream and sugar sweetened Starbucks beverages, bobas, lemonades. Yeah, there's tons.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I don't know that we've made as much progress on sugar sweetened beverages as we would have liked.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, we've done a lot of swaps, like vitamin waters, all these sorts of things.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. I mean, fruit juices is always an issue too. And like, especially non-100% fruit juice, but even the serving sizes of 100% fruit juices they sell are like three servings a day. Nutrition recommendations are like, you can have like four to six ounces for little kids. And I'm like, where are you finding four to six ounces? That's very hard.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So broad progress on like liquid sources of calories in general would be a major one. I think like people eat what you see in USDA data and the dietary guidelines always pointed to how they say like replace whole grains with refined grains or sorry, replace refined grains with whole grains. But like, we just eat a ton of grains already as it is.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And if you replace all the refined with whole, like you'd still clear the recommended amount of grains. And we're talking about the food pyramid before we got on and like sort of led people to think that grains should be the base of the diet. And so, um, Not that I think people need to like avoid whole grains by any means, but there's so many grain-based pre-prepared essentially desserts.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But like I still know people who think a Dunkin' Donuts muffin is like their breakfast in the morning. that's just eating cake for breakfast. This is like a cultural norm that we need to like, I think be a bit more critical of.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, and so a lot of the grain based beverages or grain based, um, desserts and mixed meal, like frozen prepackaged meals are like major things I think we need to make progress on. They're like a major source of calories in the American diet that, and they tend to be refined grains, a lot of solid fats, and then a lot of added sugars. Um, and whether we can reformulate those, I think is a huge, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
challenge there are some big food culture things in america that like we don't have a culture of like tons of spices and that's like what we think of as american food lots of ethnic groups have um their way of cooking things that includes lots of spices but like We very much have a society that the palette is salt, fat, sugar, starch.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And that is, you can do that in 8 million ways to create delicious things. Um, many of which were like holiday foods at one point that are now daily foods. And I think there is a reasonable conversation to be had around like, what is our food culture? I don't want to make any individual feel guilty or shameful about what they're eating, but like we as a collective have normalized, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
so many things that are clearly not good for our health and we need to think about that as much as we're thinking about the what of what we're eating like sure no pop tarts for breakfast but also like why when you go out into the food environment is it not the norm that you can get like a relatively nutrient dense healthy bowl that contains some legumes and whole grains and fruits and vegetables whatever yeah but you can easily get like the green powder but in a food form
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You need a lot more participants to see that much smaller effect and to handle all the variation that exists. And so same with chronic diseases. Like it depends on, are you recruiting people with high blood pressure at baseline? How high the more modest and closer to like a relatively, um, you know, or homeostasis is maintained a relatively healthy state.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Just, I'm going to sprinkle spirulina on everything is what I meant to say. Um, yeah, I, I don't, I probably sound like I'm like aimlessly wandering for folks, but there are like low hanging fruit things, but they're not like people are going to rightly point out, like they're not going to fix everything. They're not.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I don't think we have the data or the evidence to say exactly like what transformational food system changes are going to look like. And those go beyond the science. They go to like culture and values and economics and like, um, as a society, if the Maha folks do one thing, I think it's like opening up that Pandora's box and being like, what are we going to do?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Who, who, like somebody is going to lose money in this process. We need to be seriously thinking.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I, uh,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, and I don't think, like, I think you're just going to always run into, like, there's never been a selective pressure that we know of in humans that have ever said, like, oh, no, no, stop overeating.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, I guess, like, maybe you could get, in prehistoric times, like, too big that you can't chase after the hunting, the game, and then you, but that's unlikely to have been a significant selective pressure. If anything, it's been, we, like, clearly there's a large portion of Americans that don't just self-regulate on eating food when it's widely, abundantly available, and so...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
like this I'm very pro medication it's just a matter of like of the number of individuals right now who are indicated to be on a GLP-1 can we change food policy to like decrease that at all is a big question that I think we have high intensity interventions like the diabetes prevention program or the look ahead trial that like if we scaled up we could cut into that but it would need to be like sustained funding and it's probably only going to be a subset of individuals that are going to like
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
really be thinking about food nutrition and like, like a lifestyle intervention all the time. And those will probably taper over time. Um, but if you, with those trials, you always see like a bunch of weight loss in the first year and then like people getting it back, but they also are only really intense interventions.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
where you're regularly meeting with dieticians and exercise physiologists for that first year also. So I don't think society has ever played around with, if we provide broad access to people that mirror those interventions and really funded them, one, it might not be cheaper than the GOP ones, But for the people that want it, what percentage of people can we get uptake on this?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
How many medications can we cut back on? Can we sustain this for a 10-year period? We are 20-plus years post the DPP and have never seen a massive national rollout. There's been statewide DPP programs, and I think there's one in the Veterans Association and things.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But if we as a society now are going to be serious about nutrition, thinking about scaling up and intervening with something like that is... something that we need to really consider and at least pilot more aggressively than we have and try it out and see.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like to see diet effects, you tend, they tend to be much smaller and you need a bigger sample size to see them confidently. And so that's a problem for our nutrition research infrastructure. The ability to recruit hundreds of patients like you would do for a pharmaceutical trial is extremely difficult.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, I think there are always going to be medication that's needed, but the degree to which we can cut into it with lifestyle stuff, there's a lot of what I see on, I meant to say this earlier, like a lot of what I see on Instagram is very much a hustle culture. If you don't want it, if you're not going to work hard for it, that's a very moralized tone to lifestyle.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think that's the opposite of what the data says. You are not convincing any meaningful swath of the population by shaming them into diet and exercise.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
all the data except the population that they need to people who are already motivated like i mean like most of the people i think could buy into that are people who are like just who want to feel good about muscle mass it's an aesthetic thing most often um but like the data is all like providing people intense support counseling motivation like the dpp wasn't shaming people around food i hope not at least uh what the dietitians actually did you never know but um
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
like they're just, it's resourcing people to lower the, the bar of like, we're already, you know, the everyday person is like working a ton, raising kids, trying to make ends meet financially. The idea of like fitting in multiple hours at the gym is just like, and then meal planning and all this kind of stuff is just like an added burden on top of everything when you can't afford your rent.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Like that is, real public health is addressing people in those situations. And so like, I think look ahead, like gave like exercise equipment and also gave access to exercise physiologists and nutritionists.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And like, we need to be thinking about supplementing people with relatively healthy foods, like in a pretty men's style type intervention, where you're just giving people tons of nuts and seeds. Um, we have never as a society done that really seriously. And I would like to see, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
like basically playing around with at a policy level and like being like, yeah, we have enough data to think this is a good idea. Now let's pilot it. And we need the political will to that industry is probably going to fight it to some degree, but you need to push through and actually get these things at local and state levels and see whether there's something to ramp up to a national level.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But, uh, whether that will be funded and happen, I don't know.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's very, very hard to do that in any meaningful timeframe with the current way that we fund nutrition science now and the research infrastructure that we have.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
With the Galaxy Watch 7 or the Galaxy Ring and the Samsung Health app.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah. Yeah. If people are like thinking, Oh, I can eat the steak and shake fries now. Cause they've like as much as I want because they've got, yeah, they've got seed oils out and like a beef tallow. And I'm like, there's like 650 calories for a large and 1400 milligrams. So it's probably not something you want to eat a lot of.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
but if we can change, if the vibes right now can shift culture and then we can actually get policy that lowers the barrier to accessing and implementing things that we know are likely to improve markers of health or quality of life, like that would be amazing. But the, that's a big A to Z kind of look at it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
That's like A to D and how you even get from A to B. I haven't seen really cogent plans laid out of how that's going to happen. And yeah, I think time, time will tell. Like I, I will, I don't get enthusiastic about much, but like, I'm just, I'm not enthusiastic that it's going to happen. Um, but I'm like fully on board.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think a lot of people to like advise on these sorts of things, but also nobody's going to put up with BS. Like if I'm not going to sit here and be like, yeah, we're like anti-vaccine like the same time. Like, um, so it needs to be like a concerted multi-pronged society wide reorientation around health. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I think they could lead that if they really wanted to and they can align all their coalitions. Because I know behind the scenes, everybody's not aligned in the same way. I mean, this administration was good at getting a lot of people with disparate thoughts on things, all behind sort of one person. But then whether that will actually lead to like, whether RFK Jr. has the power.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I mean, in a democracy, you're supposed to reflect your constituents, not your own personal views. So I think, yeah, there needs to be pressure for it. Um, and I think it needs, but there needs to be clear guidance on what it is. This, I, a lot of what I've seen is like people who shop at Air Juan that are like, get the chemicals, get the chemicals out of our food.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And like that is, I encourage everybody who's a food advocate to drive across the United States and see the current state of things that
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
very different in rural versus urban and different rural areas um there's huge access issues there's resourcing issues there's issues of what we just grow in america and how things are priced uh the list goes on and on and on and and all this under the umbrella of like you have freedom of choice and that we respect and that's an important thing but how do we nudge consumers is gonna uh
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think consumers can nudge other consumers, I guess. But it'll be interesting to see how all this plays out.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Just one?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Interesting. I mean, it's one of those things where there's like a thousand things and there's also like my brain's. one seed oil is like everywhere.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Oh my gosh. They, they drive inflammation. They're inflammatory. They drive cardiovascular disease. Um, they're toxic. They cause cancer. Just the list kind of goes on and on. Um, what does the evidence say? Uh, So the evidence says that these are seed oils. It's hard to say anything about a seed oil.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I want to be clear on this because the chemical composition of the seed oil, there's lots of different types of fats that can exist in seed oils, whether they come with antioxidants, all this kind of stuff. But when you say seed oil, everyone just immediately assumes that there are high omega-6, specifically linoleic acid, which is an 18-carbon omega-6 fatty acid with two double bonds.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And so people... started hating seed oils because of that. But now like seed oils have been through plant breeding techniques, how they're like 18, the linoleic acid like dramatically lowered. Also the omega-3 is dramatically lowered in a lot of them. And then like monos, and they're like taking over the marketplace.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So when you say a seed oil, like a lot of seed oil that you're buying and eating is just like not even high in the omega-6s that were the original reason for the concern. And that marketplace is taking over because they're more stable at room temperature and under frying conditions when they're more high in the monounsaturates.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And it's basically they've been upscaled to replace the trans fats that used to be in the food supply and were banned.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
um so yeah you can't even guarantee that they're high omega-6 but but seed oil claims tend to be rooted in the fact that omega-6 is um because they have those double bonds they're more susceptible to oxidation and oxidation as we know from the 90s fanfare around like antioxidants is thought to like tissue oxidation is thought to contribute to disease in some way because these fats get incorporated into all the membranes and across all your organs um you can basically argue that
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
More linoleic acid in any organ is going to cause dysfunction of that at some point. And it's very vibes based. It's not talking about like doses of how much you're eating or anything like that. So, yeah, there's just innumerable claims, everything from like it causes autoimmune diseases. It's bad for kids IQ. It causes cardiometabolic disease and cancer.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And the data just isn't really there for any of that. To be clear, we don't, again, have blockbuster randomized controlled trials for the most part. We have short-term studies where you replace the food oil. Sometimes it's high oleic, which is a monounsaturated fatty acid. Sometimes it's high saturates.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
With these more high linoleic acid, typically we focus on oils that are high in omega-3s at the same time. But when you replace them, you see lowering in LDL cholesterol levels. You typically see slight improvements in blood glucose levels. So those are surrogate risk factors for disease. We think they're just risk factors. They're not the endpoint itself.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So we would expect that LDL lowering to lower myocardial infarction or heart attack, but it's not like 100% on that evidence. Where you can go look at the relationship to disease endpoints is things like in prospective cohort studies. And so with seed oils, that fatty acid, because it's essential, your body can't make it itself.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
The level that's actually circulating in your cell membrane, so the red blood cell membrane is the biomarker that's used, is reasonably correlated with what your diet is. You can actually measure people's blood. And because the red blood cell has a longer half-life of like around six months or so,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, I mean, I think there's few people debate that like saturated fat raises LDL cholesterol. There's a bit of an effect modification by the food matrix there. So we talk about these nutrients, but like you can get saturated fat from meats or dairy and different types of dairy. And the relative effect of saturates on LDL varies a bit with those foods. But.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
three, six months, you can measure that as sort of a marker of what somebody's usual diet and how much of this linoleic acid it contains in it. And overwhelmingly across like every prospective cohort study, higher levels in your red blood cell membranes, which are correlated with higher levels in your tissues are like associated with good outcomes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think there's like one off study that suggests maybe it's negative for bone, but it's a really tiny cohort. But like the large cohort studies looking at cardiometabolic diseases all show improvements in cardiovascular events and mortality. And the self-reported dietary intake data says the same thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So the three highest levels of evidence we get in nutrition all don't really point to seed oils being a huge concern for any risk factor that we think has meaningful prognostic capacities, so like causally related to disease, or in the actual disease endpoints in the more observational literature. And all that evidence has its own slight flaws.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But when you ask for people to come up with, well, what's this blockbuster evidence that it's like,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
pro-inflammatory and things you get typically mouse models that are fed high fat diets that are obesogenic for the mice they will get obese regardless of the fatty acid composition right and that you use ones that are higher in polyunsaturated fatty acids and they like do slightly worse on metabolic parameters there um and that is usually the blockbuster take-home evidence and they completely ignore all the other evidence and then point out the flaws in it
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yes, and because mice are better than humans. And they'll rightly point out, oh, we don't have good biomarkers of tissue oxidative stress and things, which is true. Oh, that's the other one, inflammatory biomarkers, which we have, you know this clinically, we have very nonspecific inflammatory biomarkers, like HSCRP and ESR. But you can measure like IL-6 and TNF-alpha.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
In the few studies that people have looked at this, they don't change in a negative way with seed oils. There's even a few trials that suggest that- I don't even know clinically.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, it doesn't happen. I mean, now you can like measure IL-1 beta and things that I think kind of kinemamab is and targets that. So like in research studies, you can start to tease this out a little bit more. But there's always the concern that circulating inflammatory markers don't reflect what's happening at like a tissue level.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There is a tissue that's stressed by its high linoleic acid content. Like it's hard to tell in a human.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
No, in humans it's just, it's really tough. But all the caveats are like, we're not feeding like super, super duper high levels of this. There was enthusiasm back in like the 1960s for feeding like up to like 20% of calories from these polyunsaturated fatty acids.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Our like cap is typically at about 10% of calories now for this theoretical risk that like really like we don't have 25 year randomized control trials looking at like cancer in every single way that you can look at cancer as an outcome. Um, so like there are like barriers in place on this. The major rationale though is a biochemical rationale. So not even relying on like mouse studies so much.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, but that when you eat high omega sixes, you, they compete with the omega threes for elongation and desaturations. Your body needs these essential fatty acids in the diet to turn them into longer chain forms that are enriched in your tissues and are beneficial for a whole host of reasons for the tissue. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I think you find very few people arguing that replacing saturated sources with mono and polyunsaturated sources isn't going to reduce LDL. I think a lot of people question... The second part of that equation. Yeah, does that change in LDL meaningfully reduce cardiovascular events, which can be influenced by its effect size? It can be small in some individuals.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, but when you eat a lot of omega-6s, it competes with all the omega-3s and you're not eating an equivalent amount and even adding a whole bunch more doesn't reduce the competition. So you don't elongate those omega-3s into the longer chain ones, um, that we think are, those are the fatty acids that are in like fish oil.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And we think, and there's like primate data, there's rodent data on this, that this competition exists. We think the competition likely exists in humans too. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And you basically in animal models to achieve like efficient elongation of omega threes relative to mega six, you need like a one to one ratio, which in humans would be like dropping a mega six, like linoleic acid intakes down to like one to 2% of calories. Hmm. which there's only one research study that's tried to do this at the NIH.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And it's like extremely hard to feed people diets that don't contain like in the modern food supply. Um, it's, it's a, you have to use even lift a limit kind of the amount of oils and you have to avoid things like walnuts because they contain a lot of linoleic acid. So it's, it has this appeal because people think ancestrally we ate this like one to one ratio of omega threes to omega sixes. Um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Most of the modern nutrition community just says, we don't have to worry about your body's ability to elongate those omega-3s, just eat fish. You get the best of both worlds. You get the linoleic acid that lowers LDL, improves some other biomarkers as well, associated with reduced risk of cardiovascular mortality, independent of omega-3s.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then you also get the omega-3s, which are associated with improved outcomes as well, independent of the omega-6s. And you kind of get a best of both worlds. But despite decades of recommendations around eating fatty fish, Um, there is, it doesn't happen. Like America's a mega three status indicators where you measure that amount in the red blood cell.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
When you look at the couple of times that we've measured it in more nationally representative samples, the levels are still really low below what we would want them to be for thinking they're cardio protective. And so, um, there are people out there eating a lot of mega sixes that are not making a ton of their own omega-3s and they're not eating it. And so people think that that's like a risk.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's very hard to find cohort data linking that to outcomes, but it's based on this notion that you want a healthy amount of omega-3s and omega-6s in the body. But yeah, I don't like the data to support really links between these fatty acids and any major disease outcome is just not there. And it's one of the topics in nutrition where we have that biomarker that's actually pretty good of exposure.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's not perfect, but it's good.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yeah, it's a somewhat similar principle. Instead of the non-enzymatic modification of the protein by glycation, it's just the sort of natural incorporation of the fatty acids into the red blood cell membrane. And so it has a similar kind of principle. The best biomarkers in nutrition tend to be like essential things that your body's not making itself.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then you can measure in a red blood cell or in a slow turnover tissue like adipose where you can take a biopsy and measure it. And it's reflective of like longer term dietary. That's like the perfect biomarker of omega-6 intake is adipose because it's stored for relatively long periods of time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's quite variable, the degree to which somebody, when they change their diet, the effect size that they're going to see. And I think there's old trials in this literature that are suggestive of that replacement lowering cardiovascular events, but they're like pre-statin era. People have total cholesterols like in the 200s and 300s.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, this gets back to our, like you can, you can buy all these like diagnostic tests online and micronutrient tests, but they're measuring it in plasma and the half life of nutrients and plasma is so short, like on the order of hours for many of them. But like it often reflects what you ate yesterday, like not what is actually you've been eating longterm. And so, um,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
You could order those tests, but it'll just tell you what you ate yesterday maybe and how fast your tissues sucked it out of the plasma. And then your body's ability to keep a slow, steady supply for tissues that need it. Nutrition research is hard is kind of what it comes down to. I understand people who look at it and they go, this is all crap.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
There's so much uncertainty in each line of evidence that we should just... eat how we think our grandparents ate or everybody's got their romanticized time in history that they're going to eat at.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, but I think we have enough data that you typically look along and like, when does the controlled trials measuring, you know, surrogate risk factors, our epidemiology measuring disease endpoints, a little bit of animal model data and our understanding of the pathophysiology of the disease when they all align.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And that's like our best case scenario where it's like, which you typically, you see that in things like sodium, um, and saturated fat where it's like, that's,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Yes, it's a decent guardrail. I'm not going to sit here and say we have like statin level evidence. But it's enough that like particularly for somebody who's a high risk of cardiovascular disease, like these are reasonable guidance that we want to look at. And for sodium, we actually do have some better randomized controlled trials back from like the 80s, the trials of hypertension prevention.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
It's actually the first nutrient that we have a chronic disease risk reduction, so a CDRR DRI value for. It's a new value. The National Academy has finally made a separate category for like a nutrient benchmark called the CDRR in 2019. So chronic disease nutrition started getting hot and controversial in like 1977 and it took until 2019 for us to get like a solid value. um, from our, our DRIs.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So it's a slow process and why we need to like massively invest in nutrition research to, um, increase the speed with which we do these things and take chronic disease nutrition seriously. Yeah. Well, I'm glad we figured out the healthiest diet today. I think that was very valuable. Yes. That quick soundbite that I gave you that you can all go follow up on.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Um, yes, no, this is, this is why I like, I like long form stuff cause you really have to like dive into the weeds. But if anything, I hope that people, um, walk away with the ability to rebuff overhyped, oversold cure-all things that you're going to interface with on every single app that you're interacting with on a daily basis.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
So people question like, is this added LDL lowering really all that beneficial for reducing cardiovascular events? Like calculating a number needed to treat is really tough in this space because you don't have a really rigorous data to do it all that often.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
Oh, we got a new randomized controlled trial. We have AG1 versus once a month therapy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
That's going to play well with our audience. Oh, goodness. We'll say any more about that because you're already at a high risk of getting sick.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
What was it? CDRR, yes. CDRR. Chronic disease risk reduction.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I just want to, it's kind of you to say, but there are so many unsung heroes of nutrition research and practice that are out there that I think you don't see many PhDs or RDs. Everybody can name a PhD who's in the health enforcement space, but how many nutrition PhDs are doing research that are out there talking about it? Um, and so they're the folks doing boots on the ground stuff.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And then there's always concerns that just because LDL is lowering, I think medicine, there's a lot of hard-learned lessons that you can see the biomarker go down in the direction that you want it to, but there's like an off-target effect. And so there's always concerns that particularly in the era of everyone thinks seed oils are toxic.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And I mean, I'm right in the trenches with them, but there's amazing research that's happening out there that I hope people get inspired to like, think about nutrition research as a career path, encourage their Congress people to fund it. Like this is a, it's a really cool field that not only impacts your health, but just the biology of how your body handles food.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
I like, I, that's actually, I didn't say it, but it's what got me into nutrition research. Like when I ended up doing my PhD in Colleen, because I, the methyl groups that are on choline ultimately end up tagging the genome. The methyl groups of the choline that are in mom's diet end up tagging the genome in the fetus and regulating its gene expression. I just thought that was so profound and cool.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
And what are the implications of that? How do we study this more? And so I hope that... people get not just like, what do I need to do for my health today, which I put on my plate, but just getting to know the methods of nutrition research and understand a little bit more about it, I think, can empower people as they go and interact within the food environment that we have.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Truth About Seed Oils, Food As Medicine, and RFK Jr. | Kevin Klatt PhD RD
But we really need that groundswell of social, political capital supporting nutrition research so that we can really actualize all of its benefits.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, that was a scary time where we actually had something that worked, but because of its implementation, we got rid of it and got something that was far worse. But I believe we're still using the oral vaccine in other areas of the globe where it's difficult, remote areas, to get access to the completely inactivated vaccine. Is that true?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What do you say to people who, while you're overlooking the data of the number of 30,000 people, I believe you said for the mRNA vaccines, when is it enough information? What's your barometer to say, oh, well, this was studied for a year with 30,000 people. I feel comfortable recommending it. Or we need two years, three years. What's the cutoff for you?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Did you ever play poker in your life?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So did you get comfortable with the notion of doing the best with the limited information that you had at the time and then making your move and being okay with the consequences because you did the best with the limited number of information pieces you had? Yes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Isn't it ironic that it's so replicatable, the theory of poker into real life, especially healthcare?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah. And when we think about some of these procedures and treatments that we have available to us these days that are fairly commonplace, blood transfusions, chemotherapy, what was the process, what bet was being made by researchers that they would work?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah. So how do you, as an infectious disease specialist, speak to someone who is vaccine hesitant?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Is there fire there? How do they decide in that scenario? Like, let's say I'm a person that comes in asking that question, and you say, well, Florida Surgeon General said this, but I'm saying this. How are they supposed to judge which doctor is telling them the right thing?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What is that human price that we have to pay for innovation?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So what is that person supposed to do? So how do you, I think- Like I'm a mother of three. I'm listening to Surgeon General on one side, Dr. Paul Offit on the other side. I'm like, both are very passionate. Both are distinguished. Both went to great schools. Do I just go with my gut?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Honestly, I get it too. I wanted to cut through the noise. So I called a friend of the channel, Dr. Paul Offit, who's a world-renowned pediatrician specializing in infectious diseases, vaccines, immunology, and virology. But he's not just a medical expert.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah. Like thinking about innovation right now, people's minds go to AI, CRISPR gene editing. Where do you think those scenarios play out in our lifetimes?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Which nowadays, it seems like everyone just puts out their feelings more than scientific research as to what they think is going on. That's the trouble I have these days with parents when they say, there's a reputable doctor telling me X, Y, and Z, and you're saying you disagree with him. How can I make up my mind? And it's like, you're deciding based on who you like more.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And you look at people that make statements about the vaccine and, worrying about kids getting too many vaccines during childhood. Like that's probably the number one concern that parents have when they bring their child in for their two month, four month, six month visits is why are we doing all these at the same time?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And my constant answer to them is children are exposed to way more in their daily lives while they're licking the table, while they're sticking their fingers in their mouth, way more particles of bacteria, viruses, et cetera, than whatever we're doing with vaccines. But on a more scientific level, what exactly is going on that it's perfectly safe?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
I think even Trump said something about like, they give them the immunization the size of a horse.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
canal exposes you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What about the idea that getting a vaccine like the flu shot is often talked about in this way, where it makes your immune system busy so that you become more susceptible to other viruses or a different strain of a virus. Any truth to that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And the other- But meaning during antibody formation, that because your body's pumping out these antibodies, it won't be creating antibodies for other viruses that are circulating.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah. I would love to see, because we talked about on a previous conversation that we don't see value in debating with people who are not interested in debating science. They're talking about their feelings, magic, and there's no value in debating that because you say, I believe in it. And then you say, what evidence do you have? And they're like, I believe in it. That's the evidence. But in a
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Situation like that, I feel like there might be some debate. I don't know what the Florida Surgeon General would say necessarily, why he believes that mRNA can cause cancer and all these things. I think you probably point to some studies, observational studies that have shown these turbo cancers. At least that's what I predict he would say.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Have you seen any evidence showing that getting the mRNA vaccine speeds up cancers, creates more malignant cancers?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
I have patients that come in quite often and they say, Doctor, why is my immune system so weak I get sick all the time? And what they're talking about is they get every few months a runny nose, a mild cold. Is your immune system really weak?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
That's what your immune system's role is. That's it. That's the goal. So what explains the variation from someone who never gets sick during a flu season versus someone who's constantly getting these mild upper respiratory symptoms?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Is that why I remember once we were coming out of lockdowns, children who were two, three years old were getting their first bouts of RSV and other upper respiratory viruses. They were much worse that you normally wouldn't see in two or three year olds. My theory was that this was a delayed first episode that they would have had otherwise earlier on. And as a result, they were being exposed later.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And that's why we're seeing this very timely spike, but it wasn't because they were locked down. It just was a timing issue more than anything.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And when we do that, it doesn't necessarily make your immune system weaker. That was a big prevailing theory that sounded like what I was saying, because I was saying because of these lockdowns, we had this spike, but it wasn't because our immune systems were weaker. They just were underexposed for a period of time. And when you get exposure again, it becomes worse.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What is it specifically about that first episode that trains your immune system that makes it so much worse the first time you get it?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Does that incubation period, that window from when the virus enters your body until it starts truly causing symptoms, is that also why certain diseases you get lifelong immunity to? Because the next time your body sees it, you have that antibody response and that you don't see it again?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, what have you seen on the CRISPR front? I know, for example, in Asia, there were some scientists that were sort of held in high regard that started experimenting with CRISPR in non-lethal conditions, potentially experimenting on young babies and trying to rid them of the ability to get HIV.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And why does that immunity wane sometimes? Like I check titers on some of my patients that let's say get a job at the hospital so they need to get their MMR titers done. Why do in some patients that immunity does fade after 40, 50 years?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So is it fair to say that after, let's say, age 45, if we check people, if they still have circulating measles antibodies, they won't? Because I feel like most patients I check are good still.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So they do start to fade.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, that's funny that they never get the attention they deserve. The idea of certain conditions like mono, people say, I get it once, I shouldn't get it again. But there's a certain subset of my patients that are not immunocompromised that get another bout of mono. Why does that happen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And the world that is in the CRISPR space, the community was very upset about it because they said, you're experimenting genetically, not knowing how this is going to impact the rest of the child's life for a condition that was not life-threatening to them. Is that sort of the quandary you're discussing in the book?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, it's very interesting. In talking about the COVID booster and the COVID vaccine, how it really should be targeting the vulnerable populations, those who are at high risk, it seems like the stance that the CDC and FDA take is more so, yes, people who are at risk should be getting it, but also everyone else should get it because at least temporarily will reduce even mild illness, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Because you can decrease it in the short term. So during a cold and flu season, you decrease mild illness. Therefore, you decrease transmission of the virus to those vulnerable populations as well. Is that a valid reason to recommend it for everybody?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And is there any fear of the fact that the vaccine has been out now for less than half a decade, that maybe we will see after 10 years some new sign pop out and there's going to be another shoe that drops or no?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
But given that this is an mRNA vaccine and it's different than those, is there any potential that this is going to be different?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
He's also a member of the FDA Vaccines Advisory Committee, a celebrated author, and a co-creator of the RotaTeq vaccine, which has helped save the lives of hundreds of children every day.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Well, that's why we've had to sort of shift our mammogram recommendations because we were seeing that as well. I've had some patients, again, could be coincidence, could be not, raise up the issue of ringing in the ears post getting the vaccine. Have you seen that as a side effect?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, my patients come to me at times and they say, I had one dose of the vaccine. It really created this bout of tinnitus that was terrible for a few months. My other doctor, my gynecologist, whoever else they're seeing, told me I shouldn't get the next dose. And they're someone who's at risk, who would benefit. I don't know what I'm supposed to tell that person.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, I guess at that point I'm like patient preference. Here's what we know. There's a lot we don't know. What would you like to do? And ultimately let them be the decision maker for that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
You know, it's funny. It reminds me of listening to the difference of researchers speaking on advice to people versus clinicians speaking on advice to people and how different that sounds. Because these days, the people who are doing some research or at least evaluating the research, present the data as if it's done. Like they've reached some sort of utopia. They said, this is what we know.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, it's so tricky. I think... you don't necessarily have to be putting out all the data and drowning people in data. Because drowning people in data just creates overwhelming cognitive load, therefore people tune out. And you don't want people tuning out when you want them to tune in. So you give them relatively...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
good data, meaning what they need to know, and you don't flood them with too much information. So if you know that it's no worse, you say, we have the new bivalent vaccine. We're giving the bivalent vaccine. Here's the reasons why we're giving it. You don't have to upsell it. You just... Make it like you're not marketing a new toy in Toys R Us.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
You're telling them what product you have, the reason why you have it, and the reason why they need to get it. That didn't change, right? We still needed people to get vaccinated, the high-risk groups, people who previously weren't vaccinated. They would get the benefit. And the worst thing that you can do is... not be transparent by lying.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So if you don't present all the information, because you don't want to overload people, that's one thing. But if you start presenting information that's not true, that's debunkable, now you're allowing the other side of the equation to do something called truth wrapped in a lie, where they point out a flaw when you were supposedly being honest, And the flaw is real.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And now off that flaw, they can build whatever narrative they want. And you don't want to give the truth that could be used to be wrapped in a lie. And I feel like we've done that so many times by overpromising things where it's now becoming too easy to debunk the CDC and FDA. And that should never be the case. And if you're transparent, you don't need that to happen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
There's just a lot of people in this space who are excellent researchers. And these researchers are now being put at the podiums because people think, oh, I want to hear it from the source. You actually don't. When I see the WHO come out and they wanna make a statement that a lot of people are gonna watch, they send Tedros, the organizer, the leader of the organization.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Is that the best person to be making a really nuanced point? Is he the most captivating speaker that's gonna hold attention? Probably not. So you need to find that balance of give the right amount of information without too much cognitive load. In fact, that's what we do on the YouTube channel. When we make a video,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
there's all these analytics people look at to see what drives the algorithm, because everyone talks about the algorithm. And really there's two things that drive the algorithm. How often people click on a video when it's served to them, and then how long do they spend watching that video? And the algorithm tries to pair that up.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And then when both the click-through rate and the watch time goes up, it serves it to more people. And you can't really control the click-through rate because that's based on topic, seasonality, what the thumbnail title looks like. There's small tweaks you can do. But in general, once you come up with the concept, that's what matters.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
This is the hard end. Now we know cold plunges will extend life. We know that if you take rapamycin, you will live longer. And yet, despite knowing the research, they don't understand how that information is landing to the general public from a clinician standpoint. Do you ever see that play out?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
But then the watch time, that retention graph that we see every second in our video gives us a lot of information of how people are dealing with information. And over the course of making thousands of videos on social media, I see that if you present too much information, how quickly the retention drops and therefore you lost your buy-in.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And when you lose buy-in with someone who you're trying to educate, you've lost the ability to help shape their opinion, to change their mind. And that's what our researchers aren't getting right. I feel like that's the biggest loss that I've seen with the CDC and FDA.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So very dense, but it's something that we just see time and time again from the cognitive overload of let's present more data. And it's like, you just presented so much data, some of it even untrue and oversold. And that's where it gets me worried.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What politicians do extremely well, which I want physicians and physician leaders in the CDC to learn from, is how well they can manipulate media with that truth wrapped in a lie. I'll give you an example. In this scenario where you were forced to vote on whether or not MMR needed to be broken up into components, that, even though you guys ruled that it shouldn't be because it was ridiculous.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, the fact that that vote happened Whoever that politician, Dave, what was his name? Dave Weldon, won. The reason why Dave Weldon won is he has a headline that's titled Advisory Committee Debating on Whether or Not MMR Should Be Broken Up. You know, you guys weren't debating, but it's a truth wrapped in a lie.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
You technically had it up for a vote, so he's not lying that you're debating, but he got his headline. And that's how the world works these days. And you have to be very careful about allowing those people to come into the conversation, hijack it. Where if there is reason to have that vote because there's some concern from within the scientific community, you should have that vote.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
But if there's no concern and there's a politician trying to do it to score political points or headlines, I think we have to fight against that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And so you had... And breast milk contains some of this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
That's why we don't do? A catch-up for the rotavirus vaccine. The catch-up schedule because of the worry of intussusception. Is that true?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
But then there's a period after which you no longer can give it if a child never got the initial series because of the fear of interception.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Look how often, even in this conversation, we've done that. We did that with the thimerosal, where we started making the vaccines more expensive, more waste. Cut our laboratories over reaction. We actually created vaccine-caused polio with the oral vaccine. We're talking about it now with rotavirus. We have to be able to stand up to the people that are challenging us unfairly.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And I feel like that's part of that communication equation of not being afraid to say, this doesn't make sense. And at the same time, correcting ourselves when we do make the mistake. So we have to own both ends of the equation. Stand up when it doesn't make sense to separate the MMR vaccine or take thimerosal out because ultimately it doesn't win you anything.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
All it looks like is a win to them for making that change. The same way with the truth wrapped in a lie where people say, oh, this is a hormone disruptor. This is a hormone disruptor. And they point to some animal study or Petri dish where substance X, whatever we're talking about in a given moment, acts as a hormone disruptor. And they believe all natural is better.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
But all you have to do is pull up any endocrine society press release and see that tea tree oil, lavender essential oil are also hormone disruptors in petri dishes. And yet those people still love them. But it's showing that hypocrisy and highlighting the honesty of it, I think is what creates long lasting buy-in.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Because short term, you can create a lot of distrust very easily by doing the truth wrapped in a lie. But if you highlight that strategy of someone's trying to get us to vote to separate MMR when there's no value doing it, and actually it's going to create all these other problems, and you communicate that, I think the audience will have buy-in into that, long-term.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Short-term, maybe not as great buy-in as Dr. Fauci says when you send a garbled message, but I think you create that long-lasting trust.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Given Dr. Offit's commitment to making the world a healthier place, I was really excited to set the record straight on why China was actually responsible for COVID, the vaccine approval process, and I ended up even giving him my two cents on the value of transparency in medical communication. Pleasure having you back.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
I mean, that's how people got in trouble going on television and saying things like, of course we have to reopen schools. So what? Some children will get sick and die. that's not the way you do communication about a subject like that. You can't say, like, first of all, if you say that, that shows you have a disregard for life.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
But if you say it the way you just presented it, where it's unfathomable to even lose one child, but I'm not faced with that decision, I'm making a decision between losing one or 10, and that's how I'm gonna have to decide this. that will put the image in the person's head of, okay, I understand the decision-making process, versus I can either do nothing and no one dies, or one dies.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
I wonder why that is. Maybe because it's like, I brought this on myself. It was a choice that I made. You would think when people take ownership and make a decision, they would feel better about it, that they're in charge. But in some cases, it kind of works the other way where they feel like they brought the illness upon themselves. Interesting how it can work backwards.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
When you give ownership, sometimes it makes it worse. You know, one thing I did want to talk about in these advisory committees, how often does corruption play a role?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Because people oftentimes say pharmaceutical companies, they're corrupt, they're doing shady things on the back end and manipulating data. Have you ever seen any instances of this?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So lobbyists don't play a role in this situation whatsoever? Not with those committees. I didn't see it. I've never seen it. But ultimately, the advisory committee is going to make the recommendation whether the FDA follows through on it and whether the government enacts it. That's a different story, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So you're on, or at least you were on the committee for immune recommendations, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What do you think about the idea of mandating vaccines, whether it's school mandated vaccines, healthcare worker mandated vaccines, or how we had even with the COVID-19 vaccination protocol?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So being on the advisory committee, how do you weigh making a recommendation of that caliber? What goes through your mind in a situation like that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
To me, I think the issue that the school mandates specifically solve is there's a lot of parents who are not against getting vaccines, but they may be busy. They're single parents. They have three jobs and they just don't know or they forgot. It helps sort that out, which is a huge percentage that I think most people don't realize that mandates actually end up helping those kids a lot. Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
because they just otherwise would have went unchecked, not because they're against getting it, just because they never saw a doctor or they were busy, what have you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, and that's the constant answer. And I don't think those people are against it. They're just like, oh, it's part of my protocol. Same thing with colleges as well. What about the field of longevity? How do you view that right now?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Well, that's why from like a personal take, when you hear a lot of people talk about longevity and some of the bestselling books right now are about longevity, outlive, you know, those types of books. Any interest on your side about this topic? Do you view it with skepticism, cynicism?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Got it. What about the supplementation world? I know you've written about the magic that people believe in when they take supplements and how certain supplements in higher doses can actually cause harm. Any feelings on that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And is one better than the other, like vaccine-mediated immunity versus survivor immunity?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And doesn't it feel like at this point in time, everyone in the United States has either been exposed to the virus and or vaccinated?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Lower than before. Why, despite the virus mutating and constantly changing, new variants, et cetera, our immune system is still able to deal with it?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
For the wild virus that first started in 2020... Was there anything unique about that virus that was circulating then that made it so virulent? Or was it because we just never were exposed to it at that time and our T cells weren't ready for it?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Sure. What can we do to decrease these animal spillover events where viruses go from animals to humans?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What's the current stance on long COVID right now? Have we learned anything new since we last spoke?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What was their definition of long COVID?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Was it like neurologic symptoms, like myalgias or something?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
All right. So where is the next pandemic coming from?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What is it about coronavirus that makes it so pandemic-y?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
To shed.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
And they have to also not be as sick, which is what made COVID-19 so problematic, that you had people who were asymptomatic going around spreading it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Which is why I always talk about things that seem rather insidious and maybe not as bad on paper, lethality-wise, but can be even more devastating big picture-wise.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Isolation and death basically followed.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
All right, well, where would you like to push people? Obviously, You Bet Your Life, many other books.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Okay, maybe you can get on his commission and do some of the press conferences.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah. I think it's the truth of we need to be able to say I don't know a lot more often and just sit in that uncomfortableness of saying I don't know. But thank you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Keep up the great work as always.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
This is actually the third time I've had Dr. Offit on the show, and I'm always so grateful for his knowledge and experience, and most importantly, honesty. He's seriously such a rock star in the medical community. Another one of my favorite guests I've had on the channel multiple times is Jonathan Haidt, who has some very strong opinions about social media use for children,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
that I don't always agree with, scroll on back through our library of episodes and download that one right now. I think you'll really like our conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't hesitate to give us a five-star review, potentially leave a comment, as it's the best way for us to find new viewers. And as always, stay happy and healthy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Very excited to talk about the idea of innovation in healthcare and how innovation comes with its own challenges. And something that I've been seeing in the health space, especially when it comes to the health media space, is whenever there's a breakthrough, now people are talking about it earlier than ever before, meaning earlier in its stages of development.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
For sure. Do you look at any members of the advisory committee and sometimes say to yourself, oh man, I don't think they're going to be reading all 400 pages? Or are they picking the top of the top people that you have full confidence in?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah, I don't know. I've seen his name pop up in New York City a few times. Okay, I could be wrong. When thinking about this collaboration between the private sector and the government in coming together and making these vaccines, it was a beautiful thing to see, and yet it's not held in such high regard with a big proportion of the community.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
maybe not the majority of people, but a lot of people view the vaccine still with a lot of skepticism. They say that it was done prematurely before it was truly tested. And to some degree, that's true. To another degree, it's not because we had mRNA technology before then, right? We were using it maybe not for COVID-19, but for other uses. Is that right? Or am I mistaken on that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
Yeah. Yeah. You know, that's funny. When I practice medicine one-to-one with a patient, I try and get them comfortable with uncertainty. They ask me, do I have this condition? I can only tell you what the tests have told me thus far, or my physical exam has told me thus far. So I can never give you a hundred percent answer. I could say it's not likely.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
What are the risks of getting too excited about new technology?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
I see no signs of it, but I can never definitively say that you're not having a heart attack right now, or you won't have one as you walk out of my office. That's one-on-one. But you're dealing with uncertainty on a whole other level because you're making a recommendation for a treatment that will affect millions of people that you're again making a decision with limited information.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Asking The Uncomfortable Questions About Vaccines | Dr. Paul Offit
So how do you do that knowing that there will be another shoe to drop?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber es war früher so, dass die Anzahl der Menschen, die sagten, dass die Artifizierte Generelle Intelligenz, ungefähr die Human Capability Intelligenz, in den 90ern, die große Mehrheit der AI-Recher, es als eine Kombination des Unmöglichen war, später als 2100.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Nein. Warum ist das so? Oh Mann. Ein paar Kaveats. Wir sprechen in statistischen Generalitäten. Wir versuchen also nicht, eine ganze Gruppe von Leuten zu malen. Die Gruppe von Leuten, die wir malen, ist auch eine statistische Abstraktion. Es ist nicht eine Gruppe von Leuten, die man anzeigen kann. Ein Beispiel dafür ist, dass die Leute über das Böse sprechen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber etwas wie ein Drittel der Bösen, also die Leute, die gerade in der Hochschule studiert haben, Most of them will end up quite wealthy. They're just at the wrong time of life. So you can't group them in with various other demographic groups that are poor consistently throughout their lives.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sure, sure. And they're also within any kind of category. Let's just say poor people, there are vastly different kinds of people in that with vastly different kinds of behavioral patterns. Aber die Verhaltensmöglichkeiten scheinen die erste Korrelation zu sein, was dich immer noch niedriger hält als im Allgemeinen oder dich immer noch auf die Rechnung des Wachstums des Wachstums steigert.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn wir also sagen, dass im Allgemeinen niedrige Leute x, y, z tun, kannst du mir Millionen von Contra-Exemplaren geben, von niedrigen Leuten, die sehr ehrgeizig sind, sehr organisiert sind, sehr wissenschaftlich sind, sehr glaubwürdig sind. und sehr koordiniert in ihren Aktionen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und diese Leute sind viel weniger möglich, als die Fragung von armen Leuten, die das Gegenteil von diesen Charakteristiken haben. Wenn du also auf reichere und arme Leute anschaust, dann findest du, dass reichere Leute am meisten wissensvoller sind, mehr zielorientiert, organisierter, klarer Denker über Dinge.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie haben viele Gefühle, wie alle anderen, aber sie lassen die Gefühle nicht so viel übernehmen, wie Menschen, die am meisten armen. But the averages kind of belie the fact that it really goes individual by individual.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And whether or not you're rich or poor, you have no doubt, well, maybe no doubt, some people are not capable of having as many social interactions, but you've met at least four kinds of people, likely. Und jetzt arbeiten sie zwei Jobs. And they're doing their goddamn best.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Every single five years that they do investigations into what the consensus of the AI profession is, that number falls lower and lower and lower. Originally Ray Kurzweil was kind of the real, not the father, but one of the main progenitors of this idea that AGI is coming much sooner than people think. Sein original Progustikation date was 2030.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
That person and their children, through the genetic relatedness of having those features inherited from them and the very nice father that unfortunately was taken too early, their children and them will probably be over time on average expectedly rising through the income strata because they're just good at stuff. That's just who they are. They don't spend excessively.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
They don't make impulsive decisions as often, so on and so forth. So that's subtype number one. Subtype number two of a poor person is ist, wenn du lange genug mit ihnen zusammengehst. Du sagst das nicht persönlich zu ihnen, aber du könntest sagen, ich werde dir erzählen, warum du schlecht bist. Verdammt. Du spielst all dein Geld.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Du bist verdammt verdammt verdammt verdammt verdammt verdammt verdammt verdammt Wie kannst du Geld verdienen und daran halten? Das ist fast unmöglich. Das sind zwei Subtypen von leeren Menschen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es ist eine Kombination von den beiden, aber die Genetik erklärt viel mehr von der Variante, so weit ich die Literatur verwendet habe. Weil beide armen Menschen, beide Subtypen armer Menschen, zu ungefähr den gleichen sozialen Einflüssen exposed sind und es nicht alle in derselben Weise beeinflusst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es gibt auch ein paar kulturelle Elemente, die da drin stehen müssen, weil es sich um die Gesellschaft im Großen und Ganzen handelt. Es gibt Genetik, aber es gibt auch eine Intermediär-Variable-Kultur. Wie processierst du die Gesellschaft und sprichst deine Genetik aus?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es gibt wahrscheinlich etwas für die Kultur zu sagen, obwohl man aufgrund der jüngsten behavioral genetic Daten, die ich gesehen habe, die Leute in irgendeinem Sinne ihrer Kultur ausdrücken, aufgrund ihrer Genetik, zumindest auf einen großen Niveau. Wenn du die Art der Person bist, die geboren wurde,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
oder sogar eine Familie von sehr unkontroversen Menschen, aber du hast eine Menge Trait-Kontroversen. Und sie vorstellen dich zu einer sehr niedrigeren kulturellen Kontroversen, wie, fuck it, mach was auch immer, YOLO. Du wirst wahrscheinlich, wenn du in deiner Teenagerheit wach wirst, sagen, das tut weh, ich muss hier weg.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Weißt du, wie die kleine Stadt, lass mich weg, ich bin nicht dafür gebeten. Wir haben zwei solcher Leute so weit, zwei Archetypen, die sehr scharf sind.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
You just made category three of the four. So category three is people who come from wealth, but exhibit very low conscientiousness. And they tend to have that protective buffer, but you can work your way through any protective buffer. And through multiple generations of low conscientious individuals, you can lose absolutely everything and just become absolutely destitute. No problem.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Say gambling addiction can cancel out every single bit of generational wealth in a matter of
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
in it's if you think about it definitely hours and days for sure years uh profound drug addiction i would like to believe in a world in which people who are have a huge proneness to drug addiction you simply give them the right access to care and they're better mike you've seen the data on drug recovery rates it's not pretty uh a lot of wealthy people who have all the resources who are prone to drug addiction just continues i'm not going to name any celebrities it's
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
He later revised it to 2029, which is oddly specific. There are conversations now among the CEOs of Anthropic, OpenAI, various people at Google. These are the people making these things. And the conversation now is like, are we going to hit AGI in like 2027 or is it really going to be 2029 or somewhere between?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, und für alle anderen Faktoren auch. Das ist ein exzellentes Punkt. Aber die letzte Kategorie sind Menschen, die bereits relativ reich sind und auch eine hohe Verbrechung haben. Und diese Individuen haben extrem viele weitere Erfolgskräfte und aggregieren hohe Mengen von intergenerationalem Geld. Ich habe einige Leute getroffen, die aus alten Geld kommen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und eines der Dinge, die mir über sie standen, war, wie viele von ihnen mega-degenerierte Verlängerer waren, die es einfach ausfuhren. Was auch stand, war, wie viele von ihnen unglaublich großartige, verehrte, wissenschaftliche Leute waren. Dass du sagst, ich kann dir erzählen, warum deine Eltern erfolgreich waren, weil du mit ihnen verbunden bist und du das selbe hast.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Like I know at least one person who came from money money and he's on like his third hundred million dollar business creation all by himself. No help from mom and dad in any capacity. Just like, well, I can't believe that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich habe einen exakten Hintergrund dafür als intellektuelles Ausdruck. Wenn du kein Wunsch hast, zu erfolgreich zu sein, weil es nicht zählt, weil du bereits reich bist, hast du argumentuell viel weniger Dreh, um es zu erreichen. Leute, die von sehr wenig kamen. Also, wie überlegst du das?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und so hat die gesamte Profession in mehr und mehr aggressiven Ergänzungszeitplänen zusammengefasst. Und so ist die Idee, dass ich überragend pessimistisch oder, Entschuldigung, überragend optimistisch darüber bin, ist, dass ich genug darüber gelesen habe, um zu verstehen, dass das der Raum ist, in dem wir leben. Und der Pessimismus, da gibt es auch noch eine andere Sache.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Definitiv, aber ich denke, es funktioniert auch anders, wenn Menschen, die sich nahe am Ende sehen, wirklich nicht gerne nahe am Ende sind. And they're maybe less likely to be lazy about things and just let it ride.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yeah, it's a short-term advantage. It definitely makes things easier in the short term for you, but usually that stuff doesn't last. So if you have somebody who's been connected into business, Dad was in the industry, said, hey, hire my son. You know, that sort of thing. Sure, nepotism. Business is ruthless. I don't give a fuck who you're related to.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
If you're related to dad and he said, how are you? You don't perform. Your stock trading isn't up to standard. I'm gonna hire some dude from China that's a fucking Merc. And he doesn't give a fuck.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yeah, many. But it's much rarer than you may think. And there are also so many people at the highest levels that are just good. And over time, especially the free market, now government's slightly different, but the free market, private institutions, private companies, grotesquely overreward capability versus anything else. Have you ever been inside Google?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And no offense to anyone, all jokes, all love and respect. Google, all the companies associated with that tech sphere. Bro, it's like one half of the nation of India. Is there some kind of thing where people just love Indians at tech companies? No, they're fucking mercs, dude, they're fucking good. They're just good. And like, I'm gonna hire people that are good.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And it's also, we like to hold two thoughts in our heads at the same time about, you know, the myth of the, maybe not myth, Die exagerierte Form des griechischen Kapitalisten ist sowohl ein nepotistischer Arschloch als auch ein griechischer Arschloch. Nepotismus und Griechisch funktionieren nicht so gut zusammen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Denn wenn ich griechisch genug bin, brauche ich nicht, dass du, mein Sohn, für meine Firma arbeitest, weil du flügelst. Ich brauche Guraj Patel, der für meine Firma arbeitet, weil er um sechs in der Morgen kommt. Ich denke nicht, dass er jemals verlässt. Sein Portfolio sieht so aus, als würde jemand es in Existenz machen. Ich will diesen Typen finden. Wer ist der aktuelle CEO von Microsoft?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Google? Einer der Typen ist wie ein indianischer Typ, oder? Woher kommt er her?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und der indische Junge ist klüger als alle anderen. Und der indische Junge kriegt eine Start-up. Und er zerstört dich und kauft deine Firma aus.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es gibt eine gut dokumentierte menschliche Intellektualität, die eine pessimistische Falle heißt. Und die meisten Menschen sind eher pessimistisch als sie sollten.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Google wurde von einem russischen Immigranten in den 90ern gegründet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Welche Industrie sind die, die wie die alten Jungs sind?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Disney ist keine Industrie. Disney ist eine Firma.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I think the profit margin on sports teams is huge. Is the margin huge or is the revenue?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich würde sagen, zehn Leute sind vermutlich unvergleichbar kompetitiv gegen einander. Es ist ein sehr kompetitiver Landschaft. Eine andere Sache ist, dass zu dem Punkt der behavioralen Genetik, einer der Gründe, warum Nepotismus statistisch immer noch betrachtet werden kann,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
ist, dass Nepotismus auf der Grundlage funktioniert, weil wenn du ein wirklich klüger Vater bist und du hattest eine tolle Firma, ja, dein Sohn könnte relativ zu allen anderen in der Firma schmerzen, weil sie alle Stöcke sind, aber im Vergleich zu der übrigen Person ist dein Sohn ein Killer.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber es ist auch verständlich, weil die Menschen in einem Umfeld entwickelt wurden, in dem die meisten unseres Gehirns und der Art und Weise, wie wir es denken, in Perioden der Evolution geformt wurden, in denen die Überwachung von Hündchen und Händen war, wie wir die Dinge machen konnten.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und so über die Zeit, denke ich, siehst du diesen Effekt, der als nur nepotistisch genannt werden kann, aber in der Realität, wir beobachten nur die Effekte von behäferlichen Genetiken, wie Menschen, die wirklich klug, wirklich kompatibel sind, auf der Grundlage klüger und mehr kompatibel sind als jeder andere. So a huge degree of nepotism can be accounted just sheerly based on that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And over long historical trends, nepotism has a way of not working out so well, because private enterprise does not care about nepotism. So like the Paul brothers, I don't know which one of them made the prime drink, you know, the prime drink, sugar water, Logan Paul. Not sugar water, actually. Non-sugar water. Sweet tasting water with electrolytes and stuff. So
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Whose brother just attacked me two days ago, actually. Attacked and physically? Social media. Oh my God, even worse. Yeah. Well, good, you had it coming. What was the attack about? I'm curious. He called me a book-thumping sheep doctor. What does mean sheep doctor? He judged me for reading books, I guess. Oh, I gotcha. Not big on the thinking, that man. Very well.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wow, I didn't think we would have middle school level bullying in adulthood, but here we are. I found it interesting. What did you say that made him upset? I'm sure he didn't reach out for no reason.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, Politik macht die Meinung manchmal ein bisschen verrückt. Ja, Buch lesen ist gut, macht dich klüger.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber der Doktor war in Quoten. Viel Verabschiedung. Ich vermute, er hat dich wohl gelabelt. Aber viel Verabschiedung. Du musst das Gute mit dem Bösen nehmen. Aber ich verabschiede mich.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Hell ist eine ziemlich gute Art zu beschreiben, was das war wie Elemente des Paradieses und viele Elemente des Hells. Und die Dinge wurden auch nicht über die Zeit besser, in jeder möglichen Weise. Und du könntest absolut auf Dinge abhängen, die wirklich schlecht werden, wirklich bald für die meisten Leute. Das mittlere Alter des Überlebens war so 30 und so weiter.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Prime drink. It just tastes really good, man. You like it? I don't particularly like it. I think it's fine. So how are you saying it tastes good? Everyone I've ever talked to around me says it's amazing. Really? Absolutely. I feel like it's been split. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. So it tastes good enough for lots of people to buy it. Right.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And there are no Pepsi-Cola Hardliners left to defend Pepsi's enterprise. If something's better, people just buy it. Tesla with Elon Musk.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Danke Gott, endlich jemand, der für die Menschen schaut.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I don't think RFK is a nepotistic thing. I think RFK just really connects with people in a really simple and plain way. Mike, come on. I'm dead serious. People seem to like it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Was hat seine Familie für ihn getan, um ihn zu helfen? Geld. Was hat er für Geld verwendet? Wie hat er das Geld verwendet, um berühmt zu werden?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Glaubst du, er hat für das Geld von Private Kennedy gegründet?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich dachte, es war Fundraising.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sure, born famous. I guess just because you're a Kennedy, it's real tough to get a lot of things going behind you. I think he has some special qualities. I think he comes off as incredibly genuine when he's conversing, which is super important. He doesn't have that Hillary Clinton, you know, that Illuminati stare, where you're like, there's Da ist keiner drin, oder?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, ich weiß nicht, ob das eine gute Sache ist, die du erklärt hast. Die Leute seemen es zu lieben. Und ich denke, das ist wahrscheinlich der Grund, warum. Nun, natürlich, der Name Kennedy schmerzt nicht. Und Nepotismus in der Politik ist ein viel größerer Deal als in der Ökonomik.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Der Prime-Trink ist gut, weil es gut ist. Und die Leute interessieren sich nicht. Sie interessieren sich nicht, wer es gemacht hat. Sie versuchen nicht, jemanden zu erinnern.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Oh, es gibt nicht genug Leute, die ihn mögen, um die Wirtschaft für normale Stäube zu machen. Hell nein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich weiß kaum, wer Logan Paul ist. Ich glaube, er ist ein Bruder namens Jake oder so. Ich konnte ihn nicht entfernen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich meine, ich schaue viele Shows mit vielen berühmten Leuten. Ich gehe nicht, um ihre Trinken zu kaufen, die ganze Zeit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn ihre Trinken schluckten, und vielleicht ist es nicht so großartig, und vielleicht wird die Zeit sagen. No one gives a shit. No one's buying your drink because it sucks. You can say you like a bunch of stuff. You're not going out if you're ready to drink a shitty drink. You might do it once or twice. Like, oh, I really wanted to like Jake Paul's drink. Didn't work out. If it's good, it's good.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And over the long term, people who are able to innovate and create great things rise to the top of the ability to have great wealth and influence. And it doesn't happen quickly in all places. But in a relatively more free economy like that of the United States, it happens at a substantial rate.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das ist also, wo unser Gehirn eine Art Basis-Feel von dem, was passiert. Und in den letzten 10.000 bis 5.000 Jahren gab es einen exponentiellen Wachstum in der Kultur und der Gesellschaft und der Industrie. Das bedeutet, dass wir wirklich nicht in Kontakt sind mit dem Prozess. Wir sind nicht normalerweise exponentielle Denker, wir sind lineare Denker. Fast niemand hat das Internet erwartet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So while nepotism is still a thing, over the long term nepotism is really difficult to hold on to unless there's an aggregate effect of nepotism actually making better products and services for people, which is why when you run a Fortune 500 company, und dein Arsch auf der Linie ist für all das, was der Stock macht, wird Nepotismus ein wirklich feines Geräusch.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn jemand sagt, Google hatte ein schlechtes Jahr, und jemand in Google sagt, hey, du musst meinen Sohn hiren, wird das Board sagen, bist du out of your fucking mind? Wir brauchen Mörder, wir brauchen Leute, die dieses Ding umdrehen. When everyone's ass is on the line, nepotism becomes a cruel joke. And what people really want is raw, ruthless, greedy capitalism.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
People that can make stuff happen. And over the long term, that means that most of the people that can make stuff happen end up being a real smorgasbord of individuals, most of whom don't have nepotism. You look at all the best people in industry around New York, San Francisco, LA. Bro, it's a goddamn rainbow out here.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich habe direkt eine Politik, so viele Nigerianer wie möglich zu hiren, weil ich noch nie einen Nigerianer getroffen habe, der nicht großartig ist und alles. Ich weiß nicht, sie sind sehr distanziert genetisch zu mir verbunden. Ich kümmere mich nicht um sie, sie sind einfach großartig.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich habe vergessen, was genau das bedeutet. Das ist nicht so großartig, oder? Ich denke, die meisten Unternehmen verlieren in einigen Jahren. Ich weiß nicht, wie man diese Statistik mit der Familie ausdrücken kann.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es gibt keinen Dr. Mike, der falsch ist. Wenn du an den Dr. Mike-Status kommst, bist du einfach, das ist Nepotismus. Ja, das ist es. Geh in hier rein. Verzeih die Werte. Also, das war eine lange Zeit meine Leidenschaft. because I'm an astute, dilettante, delusional, recreational student of economics.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I can't keep up with that. Same. So I just made up a few words. And I have been poorer than almost every American because I'm from the Soviet Union. It's a level of poverty that is difficult to comprehend. I was high on edible marijuana one day and I had this revelation that back when I was younger and still to this day, I have like an odd nostalgia for the 50s in the United States.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn ich noch an der Universität arbeitete, würde ich dieses Interview nie geben. Weil man sagt, dass die Menschen, die an der Anzahl sind, niedriger sind. Ich bin immer noch überrascht, wie das aussieht. Das ist verarschend. Wenn du nuanced bist, dann bist du witzig. Du kannst verstehen, wie es real und nicht verarschend ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
und ich glaube 1997 oder 1988, Paul Krugman, Nobelpreisträger und Economist, hatte einen Kommentar, den ich sicherlich erregt zu machen, welcher ist, dass die Internet wahrscheinlich nirgendwo gehen wird, weil die meisten Leute einfach nicht viel zu sagen haben. Ich meine, wir lachen daran jetzt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Man, see, you know, like the good old days. Mad Men. That kind of shit. And I was like, you know, I think I figured out maybe why. It's because in the 1980s in the Soviet Union, we were kind of at economically a similar level as the 1950s in the United States. Maybe not even so. Bro, exactly.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I asked ChatGPT and it's like, it's usually really polite, but it was slightly less polite and more like, God, no. The Soviet Union in the 1980s was like America in the 1910s or something. I was like, oh my God. So that was thrown out entirely. So, you know, levels of poverty to where like people say like, Es gibt Leute, die sagen, dass sie nicht essen können. Sie haben eine BMI von 35.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das kann nicht wahr sein, wenn du es so beschreibst, dass es linear ist. Aber in der Sowjetunion war es nicht klar, was man jeden Tag essen kann. Ich hatte all diese Erfahrungen, als ich erwachsen bin. Ich wurde später in verschiedenen Schulprogrammen unterrichtet, dass Poverty ein Grund für Obesität ist. I found that to be baffling, and I've been trying to digest it ever since.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And I have been perusing various fields of literature to try to align my ideas on the subject, and I've come away with some maybe take-home points. You mean to prove yourself right. Not just to prove myself right, but to give me that feeling inside that, fuck, I just got it all figured out. You know, me, me, me. A little cognitive reassurance.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Generally, I just stare at a picture of myself, and that's good enough, but sometimes ideas get in there. So, I... Didn't like everything I found out. So the following is heavily caveated to say I need it all in the best possible way. Don't kill the messenger sort of situation. We're going to kill you, don't worry. Oh God. There's a few people in the studio. Which one is it coming from?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So as long as I'm sacrificed for big pharma, all is well. And here's kind of how it looks to me. The typical argument or arguments for poverty causing obesity are If you ask a next level of questions about them, things start to fall apart. Level one of questions is like, how do people with more resources with which to buy food end up buying less food?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Er hat auch letztens, glaube ich, bitte nehmt nicht mein Wort dafür, ihr dürft das verweisen, aber ich denke, er hat auch ein paar Monate zuvor etwas Negatives über AI gesagt. Es wird zweimal in seinem Leben fliegen, leider. Aber die Internet war diese Sache, die einfach nur Magie ist. Denk an Amazon. Benutzt ihr Amazon?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Absolutely, every single one, because I have many retorts to every single advocacy point.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
How do people who are wealthier seem to be consuming less of a thing that costs money than more? Es braucht zumindest eine komplizierte Logik. Und wie du weißt, mit Occam's Razor, wird die logische Logik, nur auf sehr blanzen Leveln des Denkens, weniger möglich, wahr zu werden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also wenn jemand sagt, okay, du nimmst jemanden aus den 1600ern und du sagst, wenn Menschen reich werden, werden sie fatter. Sie sind wie Fakten. Und wie, nur Verständnis. Es ist eigentlich das Gegenteil. Sie werden sagen, What? At face value seems to be very confusing. There's a lot of that in science, though. Sure, of course, of course.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And then you have to start walking down of like, well, what are the intricacies here? And we can address all the intricacies in turn. And they start to paint a little bit of a different picture, a picture that is not super politically correct, but also can be, I think, more closely aligned with reality.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Denn einer der großen Widerstandsblöcke in der Wahrnehmung, die die Leute auf diesem Thema haben, ist, dass man nicht die Person sein will, die sich der Peorheit als sozialen Klasse anstrengt. Es ist wirklich Spaß, Spaß mit reichen Leuten zu machen. Es ist aktiv lustig. Es ist innerhalb des Overton-Winders. Es ist sicher. Es ist sicher. Okay. Nicht so mit den Peorheiten. Es ist als unbekannt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
In the same way, if you say, well, rich people exhibit XYZ qualities because it's their fault, people are like, that's right, fuck them. You say that about poor people, a lot of people don't like that because it gives them very sad feelings inside.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
We should not be bound by how we feel about things to be able to elucidate what is actually going on so that in that third order we can help everyone, including poor people, die Schwierigkeiten besser zu navigieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also der Gedanke, dass wir versagen werden, dass schwere Menschen gegen irgendeine Art von moralen Gründung auf unserer Seite verteidigt werden, ich denke, das muss gerade vorne entdeckt werden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Like, you think of something and you actually don't even have to type anything anymore. You go, hey, Alexa, can you order me XYZ? I don't use that. Me neither. My parents do. She's great. She's not even an LLM yet, believe it or not. She's not a... Not a large language model. Oh, okay, got it. You have to upgrade her to that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also was ist der Rhetorik dafür? Höchstverpackt, günstiges Essen ist nicht die günstigste Art von Essen, die es gibt, nicht in der Länge. Die günstigste Art von Essen, die es im Laufschnitt gibt, ist vielmehr ungekochtes, grundlegendes Essen, wie reiches Reis, nicht sogar reiches Reis, irgendein weißes Reis. Verkaufte Vegetablen, reduzierte Preise, hohe Fett, Mehl und andere solcher Produkte.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Verkaufte Beeren sind fast gratis. Kalorien pro Kalorien und Nahrungskontent pro Nahrungskontent. Sie sind unverletzt. How do you know that? Through looking into it? Substantially.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Oh boy, so that's its own thing. But just to finish the thought really quick, the real cheapest way to get the best nutritional food is to buy those kinds of essential basics and not convenient snack foods. Personal story time, not that this matters, just personal stories are mostly just like oh, ich bin ein N1, nur für die Leute, die sagen, dieser Typ ist reich, was auch immer.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Meine Eltern waren sehr aufmerksam, als wir in die USA kamen. Und das erste Mal, als wir McDonalds hatten, waren es zwei Jahre, bis wir hier waren. Und es war ein unglaublicher Geschenk. Ja, das gleiche hier.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und ich dachte mir, ich werde ihn nicht fragen, weil ich überrascht bin, dass ich ihn nicht bezahlen möchte. Das klatscht also mit der konventionellen Geschichte, dass Burger günstig sind. Verglichen zu was? Meine Eltern und deine Eltern kauften Basics-Food. Ich glaube, meine waren das sicher. Ich kann nicht für dich sprechen, aber es scheint so zu sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und das bringt schon ein bisschen zu einer Situation, weil die Leute lieben, dass die armen Menschen alle relativ homogen sind. Das ist absolut nicht wahr. Wir können sie zumindest in zwei Kategorien bifurkieren, die wir vorhin gemacht haben. Die armen Menschen mit höherer Bewusstsein, die armen Menschen mit niedrigerer Bewusstsein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es ist wahrscheinlich der größte dividierende Faktor, wie die Lebensaufgaben für fast alle passieren, außer für die Intelligenz.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Well, that was the one done on like four-year-olds and shit, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But you go on your phone and you go like protein bars and it finds the one you like and you go, okay, click, hit. And then it arrives between 5 and 7 p.m. that same day. Wie? Wie? Das ist verrückt. Wir leben schon in einer verrückten Zeit. Stell dir mal vor, in den 90ern, du hättest ein Smartphone und es ist viel kleiner, aber 100-mal stärker als dein bestes Desktop heute.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Die Anzahl der Beweise für Vertrauenswürdigkeit, die die Leben der Menschen durch den Lebensraum beeinflusst, ist etwa eine Million Mal stärker als das Marshmallow-Experiment. von dem ich keine ernsthafte Behörden-Genetikerin kenne, die diese Forschung zu diesem Effekt beurteilt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Psychometrische, Behörden-Genetikerinnen, wenn man sich die Behörden-Genetikerin anschaut, wie sie sich im Leben ausdrückt, ist die Beweise für ihre enorme Macht, die Menschen durch die Leben zu führen, überwältigend. Wann messen Sie das? Sag das noch einmal. Wann messen Sie das? Und wie messen Sie das? Du kannst es an jedem Punkt im Lebensraum des Menschen messen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das Problem mit jungen Kindern zu messen, ist, dass die Korrelation, die du hast, wenn du sehr jung bist, mit dem du alt bist, eigentlich ziemlich niedrig ist. Und so wie, weißt du, wenn Leute einen Vierjährigen haben, der sagt, er ist der Genie für sein Alter. Wie viele Male endet es so, dass er ziemlich regelmäßig später ist. Er ist nur früher da.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber man kann die Wahrscheinlichkeit durch verschiedene Verhältnisse in einem ethnografischen Kontext messen. Man sieht einfach die Leute, was sie tun und nimmt sehr bemerkenswerte Noten. Man kann es in einem anthropologischen Kontext machen. Man kann es in einem kulturellen Kontext machen, die verschiedenen Kulturen studieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Man kann es mit einer Vielzahl von validierten Tests machen, wie der Big Five Personality, der Oceanscale. Der Oceanscale ist wahrscheinlich der meiste gemeinsame, und man kann verschiedene Tests dieser Art an Menschen von sehr vielen Alterstufen und Situationen anbieten. Und sie geben einem einen Hinweis darauf, was da los ist. Und im Allgemeinen bilden sie eine sehr, sehr ähnliche Bildung.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Beide. Aber es gibt auch einen causalen Effekt. Weil... Wir wissen auch, dass conscientiöse Menschen über die Zeit verschiedene Entscheidungen machen. Hoch conscientiöse Menschen machen verschiedene Entscheidungen als niedrig conscientiöse Menschen. Wir wissen auch, dass conscientiöse Menschen sehr genetisch sind. Das Rest ist ein bisschen mysteriös, wie es sich aggregiert.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wir sind uns nicht sicher, wie das passiert. Es scheint keine sehr abhängige Art und Weise zu sein, eine massiven Verbesserung der Bewusstsein zu verbessern, mit irgendeiner Art von Top-Down-Untervention, die wir vorher gemacht haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Habe eine glückliche Gemeinschaft, die dir einen dezenten Grad der Bildung gibt, hat wahrscheinlich einen Effekt darauf, aber wahrscheinlich nicht so stark, wie wir es wollen. Wir wissen auch, dass das, was euer gemeinsames Heimatumgebung war, wie ihr von euren Eltern geboren wurdet, fast keinen Effekt auf euren Verständnis als Kind hat. Wenn es überhaupt einen Effekt hat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es ist eigentlich ein bisschen kontrovers, zu sagen, fast keinen Effekt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sind diese Studien für Genetik kontrolliert? Wie kontrollierst du für Genetik? Ich weiß nicht. Ich habe es noch nicht angeschaut, aber es ist 50% Genetik und 50% etwas, was wir nicht wissen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, ich kann es ein bisschen simplifizieren. Zwei verschiedene Arten von traurigen Menschen. Eine Art trauriger Person hat all diese sozialen, Sie haben den Bedürfnis vorgelegt. Und sie tun ihr verdammtes Bestes. Sie schrumpfen und retten. Sie denken langfristig. Sie sind betroffen mit ihrer Gesundheit. Sie sind betroffen mit ihrem Körpergewicht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie sind betroffen mit den Auswirkungen auf das, was sie essen. Wie es andere Dinge beeinflusst. Sie versuchen ihre Kinder in einer sehr ehrgeizigen Art zu erwerben. Sie sparen nicht exzessiv. Und so weiter und so fort. Wie ich vorhin gesagt habe, diese Leute bleiben nicht in der Länge nicht reich. Manchmal, durch eine Reihe von unfreundlichen Verhältnissen, bleiben sie reich.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Okay, es wird in deinem Kofferraum sein. Alle in der Welt haben einen. Du klickst auf etwas und es kommt später. Wo kommt es her? Ich habe keine Ahnung. Aber ich kümmere mich nicht, weil es auf Zeit kommt. You can think of about 100,000 different ways in which we take totally for granted the fact that we live in an era of insane abundance and prosperity and predictable improvement.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Someone who is incredibly conscientious but is incredibly financially burdensome medical condition who continues to stay poor and conscientious, which is a tragedy, obviously.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But there is another kind of poor person who is also poor but exhibit very low trait conscientiousness, which means they just have a one day, one minute at a time what I feel like doing massive bias in their thinking and their choice structure.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Natürlich. Die emotionale Regulierung vorspricht, dass es einen Wunsch gibt, Emotionen zu regulieren. Es gibt zwei Wege, wie sich eine emotionale Regulierung darstellt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber Wunsch spricht zu Wünschen. Menschen, die wissenswert sind, aber, sagen wir mal, einen tiefen Aufmerksamkeitsverlust haben, wissen, dass sie bessere Entscheidungen machen müssen. desperately pray to God they can make better choices, but just keep getting off track because they can't maintain their attention and have a high degree of impulsivity. People of low-trade conscientiousness
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
don't care about making good choices nearly as much as they care about what's going to be fun and pleasurable for me to do now. And it's not even a value judgment. Fuck it, YOLO is a way of life, bro. And it's a decent way of life, but it's going to lead to different outcomes. So if I am a poor person in the United States of a high degree of trait conscientiousness,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I can easily make a variety of choices that will entirely prevent me from becoming obese in many circumstances. There's another component to this, which I'm excising for now, about food drive, which is also mostly genetic, which is critical to this discussion. I'll leave that for just a little later.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
If you are poor and someone tells you, well, I don't expect you to be fit because it's impossible for you and you have high-trade conscientiousness and you've thought this through for like 15 minutes, you're going to be like, Planet Fitness costs $10 a month. It's also irrelevant to go to a gym because you could do bodyweight exercises and have a high degree of physical activity for free anywhere.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Any food you eat, you could just eat less of and become however much bodyweight you want. And if you're struggling with hunger, you can buy less palatable, actually more expensive foods and buy basic beans and rice like Abuela raised you to eat and All of a sudden you just don't overeat that because it's just not that good.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
We've seen that one of the sole explanatory factors for the rise in obesity is the ubiquity of high palatability foods everywhere super cheap. If you don't access those, it saves you money and you become more fit. So the actual impediments to achieving fitness and health to poor people essentially almost don't exist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
If you have treat conscientiousness very highly, if you have low treat conscientiousness, It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, because you're just going to YOLO the shit. You, whatever you feel like eating, that's what goes in. And McDonald's just tastes better. Now, you're not getting spaghetti, steak and shrimp, because you're not a rich motherfucker.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But you can afford very high palatability foods, you know, chips and soda and ice cream. That's all very affordable to you, and that's what you want. And if people say, like, what about your fitness and health? Generally, your opinion is like, eh, and that's a totally fine opinion, but it's going to lead to some kind of outcomes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
If you're ultra wealthy and low conscientiousness, there's a high probability you're going to end up exactly as fat as someone who is poor and low conscientious. There was a study that came out about 10 years ago, studied food deserts. Ich mag das Wort nicht. Es ist eine hohe Enttäuschung, dass Menschen mit echten Ernährungsunfähigkeiten diskutiert haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Die Sowjetunion 1988, das ist ein verdammtes Ernährungsdesert, richtig? Und sie haben sich die Daten angeschaut und gesagt, dass die Leute, die Fahrzeuge hatten, Zugang zu Fahrzeugen, um das Ernährungsdesert zu verlassen, um in mega-Konglomerat-Grocery-Store zu gehen, became and were fatter than the people that didn't.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And so combining all of that together and saying, well, Mike's like a bit too optimistic about AI. I would say I'm probably on the aggregate when I hopefully am alive in 20 years, look back. Ich war wahrscheinlich optimistischer als die meisten Leute, aber immer noch pessimistischer als die Realität, die aufgehört hat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Because they had the same low conscientiousness and not a distinct desire to be fit and healthy and lean. So when they went to the bigger mega grocery stores, they just got even better versions of the same fun snacks that they had slightly less access to inside the food deserts.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So a person's individual proclivity of how they want to eat and what they want to put in their bodies, whether or not, to what degree they care about it, is something that's not discussed much in the medical community. Erstens, was wirst du damit tun?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Den Menschen mit hohem Bewusstsein zu sagen, dass sie sich um ihr Körpergewicht und ihre Gesundheit kümmern müssen und sich vorwärts denken, ist meistens sehr unnötig. Es ist wahnsinnig pedantisch und paternalistisch. Und Ärzte haben meistens eine sehr realistische Ansicht. Ich werde versuchen, dir in der Weise zu helfen, wie ich es kann.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wenn ich dir sage, dass du gesund essen musst und du nicht zu mir hörst, dann gehst du zu Medikamenten. Das ist einfach das Einzige, was ich tun kann. Wenn du also zwei sehr artificielle Gruppierungen von niedrigeren Menschen anschaust, wenn du eine hohe Bewusstsein hast und niedriger bist, dann sind alle systematischen Faktoren, die dich obese halten, fast völlig weg.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wenn du eine hohe Bewusstsein hast, ob du reich oder niedriger bist, und du hast einen hohen Ernährungsdruck, dann wirst du 99-mal aus 100-mal obese sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Totally, that's a great question. Aber im Allgemeinen, im Allgemeinen, haben die niedrigeren Menschen einen niedrigeren Wachstumswert als die reichen Menschen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Vielleicht. Die sozialen Faktoren sind definitiv ein Teil davon. Aber wir wissen, dass die genetischen Faktoren auch ein großer Teil davon sind. Und ob sie sozial oder genetisch sind, die Wachstumswert ist so eine große Effektor-Variante für alles andere, dass das genau da ist, wo das Rubber den Weg trifft.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
No. I think that's a fine idea. My contention is that if we target food deserts, if we target big evil food companies, we are not targeting the core onus of why obesity is higher in poor people. And the reason it's higher in poor people is a two-factor situation. This really explains, I think, probably 80 plus percent of the variance. This is your theory. Hypothesis.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yeah, theory is a gravitation, evolution, etc. Much lower than theory. Right.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yes, stop doing that. Yes. So... Die größte Bedeutung deines Körpergewichts und der Proklivierung der Obesität in der modernen Welt wird ein Zwei-Faktor-System sein. Dein Grad der Verständnis für das und dein Grad der Ernährung. How much do you like food? How much do you like to eat? How big of a deal is tasty food to you?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
You no doubt have some friends that they'll eat three and a half chips and they're like, that's pretty good. They just sit there. You're like, the fuck? I get into some chips. I eat the whole bag. Food is amazing. Not everyone is like that, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Nur vor einigen Jahren. Nur vor einigen Jahren. Denn vor zwei Jahren wusste niemand über Zympic und niemand hat es benutzt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Total. Ja, das sind sehr extreme Situationen. Und wiederum, die meisten Menschen, die nicht so konzentriert sind, sind normalerweise nicht interessiert in bariatrische Arztpraxis, weil sie sich fragen, warum würde ich das tun? Es macht keinen Sinn, warum du das tust, weil sie es nicht haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Genau. Auf der Anzahl gibt es viel mehr, eine größere Faktion von Low-Consciousness Menschen, die niedriger sind, als reich sind.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wir wissen einiges davon, aber wir müssen das nicht ausdrücken, weil wir dieses Ding haben, dass Poverty Obesität verursacht. Das ist die Vorstellung. Actually a combination of high food drive and low conscientiousness cause obesity. And it just so happens that people who are less wealthy on average also have lower trait conscientiousness.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich habe einen Grund dafür, warum. Diese Leute mögen diese Dinge besser. Sie kaufen sie mehr. Genau.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
92% Genetik, die ähnlich ist wie bei Menschen. Du kannst es ausdrücken.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es war sehr selten, ein Wissenschaftler zu sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Definitiv nicht. Ich habe explizit gesagt, dass es nicht die einzige Grundlage war. Aber die zwei, die Ernährung und die Veränderung. Sie betrachten wahrscheinlich, ich glaube, etwa 80 Prozent der Varianten. Über das, was wir gerade gesagt haben. Ja, also all die anderen Dinge, die du erwähnt hast, sind unglaublich beeinflusst von der Veränderung der Veränderung der Veränderung.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das ist die Basisvariante. Die Grundlage, warum Menschen, sagen wir mal, eine mehr kriminelle Umgebung haben, ist, weil mehr Menschen um sie herum eine niedrige Veränderung haben. Die Verbindung zwischen Veränderung und Kriminalität ist eine unglaublich hohe Korrelation. So some of those same people are more likely to be criminally prone.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
They're less likely to take care of their communities, leaving trash everywhere. They're more likely to make rapid choices based on desire and thus make you next to them the proxy target of big food advertisement. Big Food didn't try to target poor people just because. You'd much rather target rich people with every product you sell because they have more money to spend.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Curious why they would target the poor because there are some large fraction of them that are low conscientious to begin with that want these sorts of things. They are attractors for them. Und sie sind die Progenitor der vielen dieser schlechten Verhältnisse. Trauma kommt nicht aus dem Aether. Trauma kommt aus den Menschen, die nass sind um dich herum.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Die größte Nassheit in Menschen ist, weil die Menschen einen hohen Niveau von Impulsivität haben und einfach alles tun, was sie wollen. Das ist die gleiche Variable von Low Conscientiousness. Im Grunde genommen in einer großen Komponente, nicht völlig, beschreiben, warum Dinge so sind, wie sie sind, mit sehr niedrigen Gemeinschaften, sagen wir mal in den Vereinigten Staaten.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
AGI wird das Problem lösen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Behavioral Genetics, Twin Adoption Studies, Genealogy Heritability Studies that show that your genetics is profoundly important as to how your life lays out in front of you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Everything else becomes usually secondary unless it is extremely, extremely different from the norm, which definitely explains some of the variation with really nasty growing up circumstances, but not as much as many people would think.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also, wenn du in die Biologische Genetik-Literatur eintrittst, und ich ermutige alle, zuhören, es zu schreien, erwarte nicht, sehr traurig zu sein am Ende dieser Dive. Es ist eine echte Sache, Mann.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich verstehe dich. So I'll cite a couple of offhand random studies just for illustrative purposes. There's at least one study that showed that past the age of about 12 or 13, your common home environment, where you grew up, has almost no effect on your eating habits. weil sie es mit Twin-Adoption-Recherchen gemacht haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und sie haben herausgefunden, dass wenn man von einer genetischen Stoffe kommt, von Menschen, die von Obesität oder von den Auswirkungen auf Essen, die mehr schnackige, schnackige Arten von Essen sind, wenn man in ein Haus adoptiert wurde, das dir gesundes Essen gegeben hat, als Kind, bis in die Teenage-Jahre, hast du das, was Mama und Papa dir gemacht haben. Gesundes Essen, das ganze Ding.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und sobald die Teenager-Jahre begonnen hat und du deine eigenen Ernährungswerte gemacht hast, wirst du so weit in die mittlere Ergänzung des, was deine Eltern gewohnt haben, dass der Wert der Einfluss auf die Ernährung deiner Eltern, ähnliche Ernährung deiner Eltern, fast unbeobachtet ist. Insanitär rigoröse Forschung kommt immer und immer wieder auf.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Any parents who have had children listening to this show, if you've had one child, you can attest to the fact of how great of a parent you were and how your effects made them who they were. As soon as you have child number two, you realize, holy shit, we're shooting in the dark. Kids kind of become sort of whatever the hell they were supposed to become. And we have barely any effect.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And anyone who thinks they have a large degree of effect on a teenager is, I don't know, insert joke here, is a large degree of delusion. The conventional wisdom on how education works and how upbringing works cannot possibly survive the rigorous data that shows that, for example, as I stated just now, food choice proclivity has almost nothing to do with a common home environment.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Before it, it has a ton to do because you don't make the choices that you have. Like, they put stuff on your plate and you eat it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Because when you look at the behavioral genetic data, the social outcomes at the extremes can absolutely have an effect. But most of what you think are the social outcomes is literally just the expression of people's genetic proclivities over and over. Mom and Dad had the same ones. Du hast die gleichen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wenn du versuchst, dass Kinder immer hyperpalatiertes Essen essen, wenn sie jünger sind, dann beeinflusst es sie definitiv, wenn sie älter sind, auf den Grenzen, hundert Prozent. Aber es beeinflusst nicht, dass sie die gleiche Wahl machen, wenn sie aufwachsen. Sie werden anfangen, gesund zu essen und die Zukunft zu denken, sobald sie Teenager werden, genau wie ihre echte Mutter und Vater.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
und dann werden sie extra Adipose haben und sich damit beschäftigen. Aber, solange du als Kind extrem obesisch wirst, ist die Erwachsenheit der Kindheit generell sich als Teenager in Erwachsenheit zu lösen, weil, solange du auf dem Weg des ehrgeizigen Überessen weitergehst, mehr oder weniger wirst du aus einer geringen Schwulheit wachsen, wenn du älter wirst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich weiß nicht, was das ist. Weißt du, was das ist? Nicht offhand, nein. Aber Dinge, die in deiner Kindheit passieren, können dich langfristig beeinflussen, aber sie scheinen dich nicht so langfristig zu beeinflussen, wie viele Leute denken, weil deine Genetik immer mehr und mehr eine Variante beeinflusst, die besser und besser entdeckt wird, je älter du wirst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Weil sie einen hohen Ernährungsdruck haben. Und das ist eine sehr glückliche Sache für sie zu tun. Das ist sehr genetisch. Viele Menschen können in ihrem stressigsten Zeitraum nicht essen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich denke, dass diese Menschen auch essen, wenn sie glücklich sind. Feierliche Essen ist ein kulturelles Universum.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Was ich sage, ist, dass Menschen mit einer hohen Ernährungsstärke keinen Stress brauchen, mehr zu essen. Sie brauchen keinen weniger Stress.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
We're not talking about the average. We're talking distinctly about highs and lows because we're talking about poverty versus wealth and its effects on obesity is a conversation exclusively of highs and lows. Because in the average, actually, you can't disaggregate anything and who knows what's going on.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sure. So you're saying a lower degree of mental health on average causes people to become more obese.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber wenn du etwas anderes bist, und wenn du sehr politisch motiviert bist, wird es eine Nuklearbombe sein. Du blämst Menschen für ihre Probleme.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I think the improvement in nearly all factors would be very impressive and hugely helpful. Locally, not systemically, because you have all sorts of really nasty side effects, like drug dealers who deal in food and not actual drugs, because now tasty food is illegal. Well, I didn't say make it illegal.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
How do you reduce it if you don't make it illegal?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, also ich glaube... Veränderungs-Gewerks-Polizei. Futterunternehmen würden nicht... Menschen würden nicht so viel über leckere Futter kennen, weil Futterunternehmen sie nicht veröffentlichen. Also haben Sie nur Leute, die sich davon voranbringen. Let's say in the ghetto and bring two young children for sale unhealthy treats they've never seen. And those kids are like, well, what is that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yeah, I think it'll go down. I think if they magic wand it, it'll be helpful for sure. Here's my contention. There are a huge fraction of people, usually on the political left, who are just moderate, reasonable people who have been educated in the United States or the Western world,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
who believe that these variables of social effect, food companies, et cetera, are, if not only, the only variables, very close to the only, the predominant variables. They expect the magic wand of external social factors to be waived and fix almost the whole problem, if not the whole problem entirely.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es hat es noch nie aufrufen können, bis jetzt noch nie. Wenn du also all die wichtigen Events in geologischer Geschichte, biologischer Geschichte, kultureller und anthropologischer Geschichte und der Geschichte der Entwicklung, Technologie und Zivilisation anschaust,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
What you're going to get is almost an inversion of that reality, where you'll get like a very serious improvement, 5, 10, 15, 20% of improvement in the problem. You'll have like 80% of the problem still left over and be wondering why, since we have these amazing educational programs,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
diese fantastischen Programme für das Reduzieren von Food-Advertisement, Gesundheit, Mental-Health-Erhöhung und so weiter und so fort, dass manche Menschen demografisch noch viel mehr fähig sind, obest zu werden als andere. Das ist, weil wir die zwei größten primären Klauseln der Variablen ignoriert haben, nämlich Bewusstsein und Ernährung.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn du wirklich schnell hast, wenn du wenig Ernährung hast, ist es egal, wie bewusst du bist oder nicht, du wirst wahrscheinlich nicht überwältigt sein, weil Food nicht so groß ist. Wenn du eine sehr hohe Ernährung hast oder sehr reich bist, kannst du einiges von Technologien und persönlichen Chefs deployen und all das.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Du wirst fast sicherlich deutlich mehr überwältigt als sonst, aber vielleicht weniger. Wenn du eine sehr hohe Ernährung hast und du hast einen niedrigen Grad von Bewusstsein, wirst du sehr, sehr, sehr überwältigt sein. und all die soziologischen Variablen in der Welt, können dir nicht zu einer großen Bedeutung helfen. Sie können dir zu einer mittleren Bedeutung helfen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wir werden so viel auf dem Tisch bleiben, dass sie sich fragen, warum. Was ich also vorstelle, und das ist das, worum ich so fasziniert bin, ist, dass ich holistische Ansätze nehmen möchte. Ich möchte die Landschaft des gesamten Problems verstehen, mit dem wir uns beschäftigen, bevor wir sehr, sehr bemerkenswerte Abschlüsse machen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Zum Beispiel, wenn du die britische öffentliche Schulungssysteme anschaust, There are some public schools that are not so great, I guess, and some public schools that are just unbelievable. And the recent, this is quoting Robert Plowman's work, behavioral geneticist, behavioral genetic analysis of childhood success in school and after, especially after school.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
hat die Qualität des Bildungssystems in den Vereinigten Königsländern, die du erhielt hast, fast keinen prädiktiven Effekt darauf, wie erfolgreich du geworden bist. Und wenn du das siehst, und das ist unglaublich rigoröse Daten, Was musst du auf der Webseite ausdrücken, um das zu verstehen? Weil, als ich das zum ersten Mal gelesen habe, war es wie, ich habe fast das Auto stoppte.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Man kann sie alle auf der gleichen Log-Linie planen und sie gehen nicht nach oben und nach unten, bezüglich Kriege, Holocausts, massiven Naturverletzungen. Es gibt einen Grund dafür, zumindest eine Kandidat-Hypothese. Es ist eine sehr mysteriöse Sache, die man in den Daten sieht. Die Daten sind kristallklar darüber. Wie zur Hölle hat der 2. Weltkrieg nicht den Prozess gedreht?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es war ein Audiobuch. Und ich war wie, wie? Wie? Es war supposed to be a thing that you inject education into people and they just get better. And all of a sudden, when gradations of public schools explain almost no variance for outcomes after. And there's programs where they rotated kids to different schools, all lots of variation. It has almost no effect.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn man Behavioral Genetik im Vordergrund wusste, hätte man gesagt, ich hätte dir das gesagt. Und dann hätte man gesagt, okay, wir hätten erwartet, dass das nicht ein großes Problem sein würde. Wie können wir diese Probleme wirklich beantworten und verstehen, was ist der Realismus, mit dem wir die Situation umsetzen können?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn man Behavioral Genetik nicht wusste, hätte man gesagt, wir brauchen viel Finanzierung für all diese Programme. Vielleicht ist das eine gute Sache, aber dann hätte man es erwartet, es zu funktionieren. And when it worked on the margins, but not in its entirety, you would have had to contend with the fact that we got, I think we severely misunderstood the problem.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
A quick analogy just for folks who are listening. If you are under the guise, under the myth that genetics are not the biggest factor in athletic performance. You can take a scrawny little Jewish kid and try to get him into every single soccer camp in the world. I'm a billionaire. My kid's going to learn soccer from like the Brazilian national team themselves. Day one.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
You poured millions of dollars into your kid and he's like 16 years old. He's the worst person on his non-select soccer team. And he's like, I want to play the violin. And you're like, the fuck? I thought I could pour athletic talent into you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And any sports scientist, to quote, paraphrase Jordan Peterson, worth their salt, hilariously Canadian expression, would say like, that's not how that works. Sports science is about identifying talent and then improving it on the margins, sort of cultivating it. If you don't have the talent. You ain't doing a whole lot.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Now, you can get better, but it's a similar thing to the poverty-obesity thing. If we addressed all of the sort of endemic issues that you were talking about, the systemic ones, external social-cultural ones, we would get some decent traction. You coach a kid in soccer with a Brazilian national team his whole life. He's going to be pretty goddamn good at soccer, but he ain't going to the Olympics.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
No way, unless he has mega, mega talent. The same is true about poverty and obesity and those relationships, where if we don't address the food noise, which luckily pharmaceutical companies are addressing now with Ozempic, Ich denke, eine der besten Dinge, die wir machen können, ist, anorektische Drogen, wie Osempic und Terzepatide, usw. für alle, die sie brauchen, günstig und verfügbar zu machen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das wird einen großen Hitsch machen. Warum? Weil es direkt die Variable des Ernährungsdrucks betrifft. Trait conscientiousness remains. There is no drug you can take that improves it, unfortunately. And it's going to remain this kind of sand grain inside that makes the pearl. It's a constant nuisance that will constantly be there.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And we can have a lot of sociological, oh, we're just not doing enough. Education didn't work that well. We need more education. To your point earlier, like vitamin D, once you get enough of it, 10 times the dose is technically toxic over the long term. Sure, shit doesn't help.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So we have to understand the entire topography, the landscape of what we're dealing with and have to accept straight up that many of the core, most explanatory reasons for why poverty and obesity correlate with each other are outside of our ability to have traction on them in the modern timeline.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
weil es zwei Dinge gibt, die Prozesse erlauben. Eine ist Abundanz. Du hast Zeit, um coolen Scheiß zu arbeiten. Du hast Geld, um coolen Scheiß zu arbeiten. Du entwickelst coolen Scheiß. Die andere ist Incentive. Die Anstrengung, etwas zu machen, weil es schwierig ist. Und diese arbeiten als Top- und Bottom-End-Buffer für die Prozesse.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And going from there, we should make all of the changes that you recommend, which I'm absolutely 100% on board, depending on how they're executed, of course. That all stuff matters. But it's going to matter a lot less than many people think. I can't speak for you and tell you how much you think it's going to matter.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But because of what we know about behavioral genetics and how causality works in this case, it's going to matter substantially less than you think. And if anything else, it's disheartening. You did all this stuff, and then what happened? Almost nothing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, wie ich es konzeptioniere, wird es 20 Prozent von 60 sein. Also wird es irgendeine Faktion sein, die am Ende
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
No, no, no. That's not my contention. I'm saying that if obesity is a problem and you solve 20% of it, you don't get an absolute 20% reduction. You get a relative 20% reduction. So in any case, I love that point. I think I'm looking at it from a little bit of a Soelian pessimistic take of, well, geez, we're not even addressing the two biggest factors in the room. And
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und es ist völlig in Ordnung, all diese anderen Faktoren zu beantworten. Es ist eine Gesellschaft oder was auch immer.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
When you have good times, you have a huge abundance, but not a lot of incentive to make shit happen that's cool, because it doesn't matter. Everything's kind of nice, so who cares? Like, really, is it really more important to make the next amazing iPhone? Like, the iPhone's pretty goddamn good. Like, who cares?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Nutritional education is a perfect example of a variable that is talked about as a preeminent variable. Here's one of my beefs with this. Coming up through the educational system in all of these fields, you're not really taught that, we were never taught that food drive was a thing that was largely genetically correlated. This is never talked about. We were never taught about conscientiousness.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wir wurden von Dingen wie Nahrungsbildung, Empowerment, um bessere Nahrungswerte zu machen, monetäre Grenzen, Advertisements, usw.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
When I learned about these things, they were taught as a theoretical basis for why things happen. Whether or not you can impact something is very different than theoretically does it caused by something else.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And so I think the reason that they theoretically were not taught is because most people in the field didn't ask the question, because most people in those fields are intellectually biased to the political left to begin with and do not to like to look to genetics and deep social forces outside of our control. Why? Because it makes them very sad about the state of affairs and it disempowers them.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
They believe in human malleability. They believe that no one can be blamed for anything, that it's social forces externally all the way up and down. And those are the, if not the only, the by far predominant reasons why people end up different is because of social forces. That is like...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
However, when you get into wars, natural disasters, that's when the incentive to make radical innovations really pops up and seems to cover that difference. So what we see is a very homogenous rate overall. Now, there are absolutely declivities and proclivities throughout But in the grand historical sense, they seem to so far be very minor.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich spreche über das Bildungssystem. In dem Bildungssystem.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Du kannst deinen Job verlieren, wenn du sagst, dass es eine Mischung ist. Wenn ich noch an der Universität arbeitete, würde ich nie dieses Interview geben. Weil ich sage, dass junge Menschen im Allgemeinen eine niedrigere Verständnis haben. Ich bin immer noch überrascht darüber, wie das aussieht. Holy fuck, das ist verrückend. If you're nuanced, then you're smart.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
You can understand how it's both real and not insulting. But if you're anything else, and if you're very politically motivated, it's gonna be a nuclear bomb. You're blaming people for their problems. Even though in their private life, everyone knows people... I don't know if you're blaming.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das ist ein sehr interessanter Weg, das anzusehen. Aber ist das nicht recht?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich denke, das Konzept von Begrüßung ist das, je länger man darauf schaut, desto mehr zerfällt es sich. Ich mag es nicht, in Begrüßung zu handeln. Ich weiß nicht, was das bedeutet. Ich mag es, in Causalität zu handeln, statt in Begrüßung zu handeln.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Begrüßung ist wie eine Emotion, die du im Inneren hast, aus ältere Zeiten, als die Polizei und das Gerichtssystem nicht da waren, um Dinge zu beurteilen. Und wenn du jemanden begrüßt, könntest du sie in negativen Licht verklemmen und mit ihm interagieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Glaubst du an Freiheit? Nein. Nein. Oh, cool. Und ich denke, ja, sicher. Aber ich denke, das Konzept der Freiwilligkeit ist preposterös auf dem Gesicht, weil Leute sagen, na, was ist mit Kahnmechanik und Randomität? Weil das ist Randomwilligkeit, es ist noch nicht Freiwilligkeit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also denke ich nicht, dass es einen Raum für Freiwilligkeit gibt, wie es die meisten Leute verstehen, in einer modernen intellektuellen Landschaft. Aber gleichzeitig in deinem Gehirn, du hast eine Maschine, die entscheidet, was du denken wirst, was völlig aus deiner Kontrolle ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And you have a part of that machine which reviews all the contents of your mind and decides on aggregate, am I going to make this decision that I just thought of or not?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And so the combination of having self-awareness and an ability to take all the information you know and aggregate it to not just my recent proclivity, but also everything else I know, certainly makes a system that acts as if it has free will. But you really lens down into it. It's not free at all. It's entirely mechanistic.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Mike's a Nazi. Come on, for real. No, I'm serious. Check your comments. Check them now.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And why would they call you a Nazi? Because the Nazis took the idea that people had genetic differences that impacted their behavior and decided the end-run best way to deal with that was to kill millions. I think there's a really big problem with the kill millions part. Muss ich das direkt beantworten? Ja, Israel, das wäre ein lustiger Nazi-Name.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich bin politisch sehr eng mit Libertariern verbunden. Ich bin ein sekulärer Humanist. Und ich denke, je nachdem, wann ein komplexes Mensch stirbt, ist es eine unmittelbare Tragödie. Ich denke, dass es abysmal ist, Menschen zu töten und sie in Camps zu bringen. You can reason yourself through sociological effects only and do the same thing. Evidence Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Like the Cambrian explosion of life on Earth seems to be a big deal when you look at it. But when you spread out the timeline, you're like, that's actually quite predictable that that would have happened, I guess. It's all on the same curve. So...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
They didn't believe genetics had any effect on anything. They believed it was all sociological. What did they do? Put people into camps, toast them by the tens of millions. You can weaponize any philosophy. Oh yeah, sure. To any extreme. But if you're on one extreme or the other, you tend to weaponize the opposite. The opposite, yeah. But you're still extreme, you're still weaponized.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
It just so happens that most of the community, the intellectual community in the United States, the collegiate intellectual community, is wildly left-wing biased. for a generation and for three generations now, the problem is getting, let's say, if it's a problem that's getting worse, it's becoming more and more of a thing that the campuses are attracting more and more left-leaning people.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And so when we're talking about looking at this from a grander landscape of what really is the cause and effect situation for why poor people tend to be obese more on average, Du bekommst eine sehr, sehr geistige Sicht von den meisten akademischen Einrichtungen. Sie lernen nicht die grundlegenden Theoretiken davon.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn du es in der Klasse nimmst, bist du ein Bastard, der borderline-nazisische Gedanken hat. Und das ganze Ding. Aber wenn du Food Drive nimmst, werden Leute dich als Nazi nennen? Ich verstehe nicht, wie das passiert. Wenn du sagst, Food Drive ist meistens genetisch, werden die rechten Winger sagen, dass du die Willkür der Menschen entschuldigst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und die linken Winger werden in manchen Situationen sagen, sie sehen, aber wenn du Genetik zu anderen Faktoren verbindest, sagen wir, racialen Faktoren, sind sie wie, holy shit, Hitler hat sich Es gibt viele Leute. Der Welt hat viele schöne Dinge darüber. Es gibt viele schlechte Dinge darüber. Und wenn du sagst, hey, diese schlechten Sachen sollten wir schauen, gibt es viele Leute, die sagen, ja.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und es gibt viele Leute, die sagen, du Arschloch, wie darfst du? Und wie intellektuell, du weißt, jeder College Campus sagt, sie sind für intellektuelle Kuriosität und Freiheit von Sprache und Freiheit von Gedanken. Und in den Vereinigten Staaten ist fast keiner oder nicht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Du und ich könnten hier sitzen und uns wirklich verletzen und abgelenkt werden, indem wir sagen würden, was war Hitler richtig? Du weißt, er war richtig über eine Menge Scheiße, oder? Er war ein verdammt mörderisches Tier, das falsch war über die Kern-Tenzen seiner Philosophie. Aber er hatte alles, was richtig war. Churchill, Hitler und Stalin und sehen, wie ihre Philosophen unterschieden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Kosten-Benefiz, Plusse und Minusse. Dieser intellektuelle Übergang ist heute auf den College-Kampusen nicht mehr verboten. Also ist die Idee, dass wir freie Gedanken haben, größtenteils enttäuscht. Ich bin als Untergründer an der University of Michigan gegangen, eine phänomenale Institution, aber nicht mehr eine Propagandamaschine.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Als ich da war, wollten sie versuchen, dass man glaubt, eine bestimmte Version der Welt, die für Leute auf der politischen Seite wirklich gut gefühlt hat, glaubt. Und so haben sie die gesamte Klasse der Introspektion enttäuscht und versucht, herauszufinden, was da los ist, so wie die behaviorale Genetik, so wie die echten kulturellen Unterschiede und wo sie stammen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie hatten die Idee, dass man externe Gesellschaften re-architektieren könnte, um jede Veränderung, die man wollte, zu machen. Diese Idee ist falsch. Sie ist immer falsch gewesen. But it's not completely wrong. It's partially correct. Like to your point earlier, it has some traction. You can change society and make people's lives better, even if they're the same people.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But what you should expect out of that is a much more mixed picture. There's a lot of situations where you think the core variable is social. You pour tons of social resources into it. It changes up to a point that it doesn't change anymore. And your answer is like, we just need more social stuff. And that is the wrong answer.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But if you're not willing to admit that this other thing even exists, what the hell do you do afterwards? That's a real curious situation.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Like food drive and conscientiousness respectively?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And you could ask the same thing about intelligence. Probably the single most beneficial thing you can have Ich gehe immer zurück in meinen Kopf und frage mich, welches effektiver ist, Bewusstsein oder Intelligenz. Aber zusammen sind sie die einzigen größten Effekte oder Variablen für alles andere, was in deinem Leben passiert.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn du intelligent und wissenswert bist, über dem Allgemeinen, wirst du etwas wirklich interessantes machen. Wenn du deutlich unter dem Allgemeinen bist, in Bewusstsein und Intelligenz, gibt es eine hohe Wahrscheinlichkeit, dass du im Gefängnis wirst oder hoch unerwartet und schlecht und tödliche Entscheidungen immer machen wirst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
If you ask the question of how do we increase people's conscientiousness and increase their intelligence, some of the answers are very straightforward. A cultural reinforcement of high conscientiousness. wie, hey, sparen Sie Ihr Geld. Es ist besser, die Zukunft zu denken, und so weiter.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber jetzt ist die politische Linke in einigen Kräften so verrückt, dass sie versuchen, das auch an die Leute zu sagen, als ob es paternalistisch ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Total. Ebenso unnötig.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Du kannst viel von dem, was Bewusstsein ist und wie es funktioniert, durch die Analyse auf Kindesentwicklung. Jedes zweijährige Junge ist das meiste Bewusstsein, das du je in deinem Leben treffen wirst. Sie haben nicht die Neuralarchitektur, um die Zukunft zu denken. Meistens, weil sie keinen gut entwickelten Präfrontal Cortex haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also, die Vorfrontal-Kortexentwicklung ist vermutlich wirklich, wirklich schädlich zu Bewusstsein verbunden. Also, wenn du eine hübsche Idee hattest, genetische Menschen zu organisieren, und du einen Weg gefunden hast, 150 Genen durch die Vorfrontal-Kortexentwicklung zu drücken, um eine stärkere Entwicklung zu erzielen, um die Schallgröße etc. zu betrachten,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
dann wäre das wahrscheinlich etwas, das fruchtbar wäre. Wenn jemand sehr athletisch ist und einen wunderschönen Sinn für Balance hat, haben sie wahrscheinlich einen größeren, besser integrierten Zerebellum, weil das der Platz für diese Art von Aktionen ist. Das ist wie das Gehirn als Computer. Das sind alle Computer-Properten des Gehirns.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, das war nicht problematisch. Sie haben Millionen von Menschen getötet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Very well-intentioned and very from the political left. Very well-intentioned. And frankly, I don't care which side it comes from. Just to keep in mind the idea that this is not the first political left thing to come up to the surface, to where there's an orthodoxy that you're supposed to accept.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
The right-wing people do not run the universities.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
We won't get into that. Something like 90% of actual government workers not accounting for police and military politically on the left. Just to keep that in the discussion. So the deep state and the extreme is an insane right-wing conspiracy, but in a more reasonable take, like, yes, most people who actually work in government of all levels are Democrats.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wenn die Republikaner verantwortlich sind, handelt es sich um eine größtenteils antagonistische Arbeitsgruppe.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn die Demokraten verantwortlich sind, dann ist es schlecht, richtig? Die Korrelation muss wahr sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber es ist nicht im richtigen Rennen des täglichen Governments.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
No. Okay. So does it not help or does it not work like is willpower enhancement actually not something we can gain traction on or is it the fact that the people have substantially improved their willpower in a robust way that lasts and that doesn't still improve their lives.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, also das kommt zurück auf das ganze Gehirn-Genetik-Ding. Es gibt nur so viel, was man für eine Persons exklusive Psychologie ändern kann, mit externen Faktoren, auch aus der Kindheit, definitiv in der Adultheit. Also die Idee, dass man jemanden die generelle Fähigkeit ändern kann, Willkür zu erzeugen, die wir als Disziplin ausdrücken,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
und die Behavioral Genetics Literatur würde sagen, du kannst wahrscheinlich nicht so viel Unterschied machen. Das ist das Ding, dass sowohl Intelligenz als auch Wissenswürdigkeit sehr genetisch sind. Und wenn wir einen robusten Plan haben, jemanden, der es will, genetisch zu organisieren, Nein, wir haben eine echte Lösung.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Kurz daraus, wir sollten unser Bestes tun, in jeder Art und Weise, wie du es erwähnt hast, soziale Hilfen zu bieten, und so weiter und so fort. Wir können keine schrecklichen Resolutionen zu vielen dieser sozialen Probleme erwarten, weil, und ich sage es sehr klar, es ist doof, um über Nahrungsbildung zu sprechen. Und es hilft vielen Leuten, auf den Grenzen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber wenn du versuchst, jemanden zu beruhigen, der nichts über das, was in ihren Körperen geht, Wer kümmert sich? Es ist egal. Und die Wahrheit ist, dass viele Leute die Ideen, denen sie helfen möchten, mögen. Sie haben sehr wenige oder keine der Menschen kennengelernt, denen sie eigentlich helfen wollen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn man mit vielen Menschen spricht, die sehr überwältigt sind, eine riesige Fragung von ihnen, manchmal in Worten, abhängig vom Kontext, fast immer in Aktionen, Don't really approximately give a fuck to do anything about it. Many of them do. And those are the people who you're going to be able to help a lot. But a lot of them don't.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And the thing that, that revelation that you get from behavioral genetics and sort of multifactorial analysis that reveals like some people just don't kind of want to do this stuff and they like eating junk, they're not going to be bothered by it because there are hundreds of millions of them that exist in the world and tens of millions in the United States at the extremes even.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
The optimism you have to have for your ability to change the situation has to be brought down to reality and your bandwidth for how to think about addressing the problem has to expand to think, okay, We got people nutritionally much more educated. It helped a few percentage points. We thought nutritional education, as we were taught in school, was maybe a third of the issue.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But it had a 6% reductive effect and we're at the saturation point for nutritional education. Where people can tell you, and here's my experience, almost everyone who walks through the door at McDonald's and out comes with a shaken burger, you think that's healthy? Almost everyone will go, no, hell no, what? You give people a bag of chips or a green apple, which one's healthy?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
90% aller Amerikaner werden sagen, das ist eine wahre Frage. Das ist eine wahre Frage. Das ist eine wahre Frage. Das ist eine wahre Frage. Das ist eine wahre Frage. Das ist eine wahre Frage. Das ist eine wahre Frage. Dr. Gundry, by the way. I'm so sorry I said Gundry. How insulting. Do you want to do a cigarette break really quick to enhance our health?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I almost broke my phone in half when I watched the cigarette clip, by the way. But I decided to smoke a cigarette instead because I care about my longevity. And something nicotinamide, something other, the British Health Study, you know the rest.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Oh man, I would like to agree with that. It won't matter nearly as much as it does now. So if you control completely food drive. So conscientiousness expresses itself in fun ways. You give people ubiquitous access to anorectic medications, let's say 7th Gen in 2032. They're just ultra high. The better version of Ozempic. The 10x better version. You still gotta take the pill.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sure, most predictions that are very specific end up getting a lot wrong, 100%. But we can just go based on generalities. Die Anzahl der totalen Intelligenz in unserer Gesellschaft hat sich exponentiell erhöht für die ganze Zeit. Und es sieht so aus, als würde es weiterhin so sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und es gibt Leute, die, auch wenn es ein einziger Genetik-Erhebungs-Schuss ist, du kriegst den Schuss, deine Genen verändern sich, du wirst nur schmutzig mit deinen Genen sein. Manche Leute werden nicht den Schuss nehmen. Manche Leute sind nur so wie, hey, hast du in den Betreuungszentrum gekommen, um deinen Schuss zu bekommen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wie viele Leute, was ist die Korrelation zwischen Bewusstsein und Doktorenbesuch? Mike, es ist wirklich hoch. Manche Leute geben es einfach nicht. Hast du jemals mit Leuten im Krankenhaus gespielt, die nicht zum Doktor gekommen sind, in lebender Erinnerung? Ja, natürlich.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also, wenn dein Bewusstsein niedrig ist, trotz von uns, die deine zivilen Freiheiten verletzen... Ja, ich habe Patienten, die nihilistisch sind, die in meinem Büro sind, für eine Vielfalt von Gründen. Und ich kann sie nicht wirklich helfen. Genau, genau.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber für alle Leute mit niedrigem Bewusstsein, die die Medikamente mit dem Bewusstsein nehmen und oder den Schuss bekommen, werden sie enorme Veränderungen sehen. Jedoch, auch wenn du relativ niedriges Bewusstsein hast, Junkfood is still fun to eat. And your ability to think of, is this good for me or bad for me?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
If we get you back down to normal food drive, you can still be substantially overweight, though not obese, because you just really like to snack. And someone's like, are you hungry? And you're like, not really, I'm just eating.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yes, exactly. I have taken grotesque amounts of anabolic steroids and all the bad things I talked about last time on this show. So it will have a huge effect. It won't have 100%.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But you're going to get a lot. Because a food drive is absolutely the quintessential variable.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Nicht viel, aber viel dorthin. Eine signifikante Mehrheit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also, du wirst eine Situation haben, in unserem magischen Mystery-Pretend-Welt hier, wo die Unterschiede in Obesity-Raten zwischen niedrigeren und reicheren Menschen früher, sagen wir mal, zehn imaginative Obesity-Units waren. and now there are two imaginary units of obesity, right? We made an 80% reduction in the difference between wealthier and poorer people.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie haben viel Arbeit gemacht auf theoretischen Grenzen der Intelligenz, basierend auf der Physik und der Informationstheorie. Und die Grenzen der Intelligenz sind unvergesslich. Wie weit aus der Rechnung von allem, was man beachten könnte. Man könnte hypothetisch eine dezentere Fragung der Weltmasse in einen Computer verwandeln. Und die Anzahl der Intelligenz, die es hat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
We have addressed everything you suggested and everything I suggested short of conscientiousness. Food drive, medication, access to everything, everyone's no longer experiencing stress and trauma, relatively same rates, so on and so forth. Like, look at Japan, for example.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
It's actually just not true to say that poor people in Japan experience more crime, stress and trauma than richer people because there's just no statistical differentiation hardly between them. Like, there's just not really any crime and stress and drama anywhere in Japan. Relative to us, right? I have no idea.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So, yeah, well, you can look at the statistical data, but if you go to Japan, all of a sudden it seems like, okay, where are all the violent people? I'm going to Japan in a little bit, so I'm trying to bring violence to them. I'm kidding, Japanese people, please. All jokes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So, if you look at that situation in the future that we could have, we would reduce the problem an unbelievable amount, but differences still exist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
You're going to have the temptation, especially with the ideological bias of most of these institutions that we have that actually make these changes, like institute the regulations for food advertising, so on and so forth, the people behind them, and the people politically who voted in those people, very well-meaning Americans, who want the problem to be resolved.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Because anything that's a difference between wealthy and poor people, including money itself, is kind of fucking gross, right? Like, what the fuck? Like, just because you have less money, you should have, like, shittier health? That's fucked up. Like, we all want the difference to be zero.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
When the difference used to be 10 units and now it's two, holy shit, to your point, that's it, problem more or less solved. No, no, but we did it. Why do I still give a shit about consciousness? Here's why. Because when you have that smaller difference, People are going to be like, all right, we're not doing enough on the regulation side. We're not doing enough education.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
That's your concern. They have in almost every other regard. That's just what they do.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And, you know, as soon as like, you know, the oppression Olympics situation that has happened recently in politics, as soon as you could no longer statistically detect different levels of oppression among different genders and races in the United States, which probably was most of the case from the 1980s, depending on the literature you look.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
in den 70ern, definitiv in den 90ern, in den 90ern denkst du dir, du, wie oberflächlich, wahnsinnig, wie rassistisch, homophobisch, wie in der alten Alabama-Bewegung, die Leute, die sind nur eine kleine, kleine Faktion, und sie können nicht all diese systemischen Unterschiede und Sachen erklären.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
People went way overboard for 30 years trying to address these issues, not coming back to being like, okay, what's the base reality here? So for the conscientiousness situation, if we kiboshed every other variable, but we still have this 20%, which absolutely is much lower, but relative to someone who comes of age during that time and sees like big differences, you know what I mean?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Like imagine someone from the year 1600 coming to America and you just give them a tour of New York City and they're like, what's that person like? It's a poor person, like, He's overweight and he has a cell phone in his hand. Like, right, that's what poor people are like, but it's real bad. They're like, he has no place to sleep. Like, he has a place to sleep. It's warm.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Die Menschen sind wie ein Fungalwachstum auf der Erde. Auf der Ebene des Solarsystems. Die Leute fragen sich, was ist mit physischen Grenzen? Man könnte einfach nur Jupiter für die Sache meinen. Und ich kann es nicht. Es gibt einen Sturm auf Jupiter. Das Ei oder was auch immer. Das ist drei mal größer als die Erde. Das ist viel Hydrogen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
He has a gigantic color television. He has access to the internet. He gets essentially like functionally through the city, really, really good healthcare. Like, what's that mean? Like, nobody really dies of infections anymore unless they're like really untreated. All the diseases you know about don't exist anymore. And they're like, I don't understand why we even care about rich and poor.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Everyone's rich. But to us growing up today, even small differences can seem quite stark. Was wir in der Zukunft tun werden, wenn wir nicht für Bewusstsein eine relativ große Variante haben, dann haben wir diese Sache, wo wir alle diese anderen Sachen machen müssen. Und die Realität ist, dass nichts anderes funktioniert, weil es komplett saturiert ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wir werden ein Problem von komplett dem falschen Angle attackieren, weil wir nie, äh, wir haben nie, äh, äh, äh, äh, äh, äh, If you've had some relatives who you deal with, who you've had not so great relations with, you think it's the way I'm speaking to them. It's the way they understand me. We have to have a come to Jesus talk. We have to really do, we have to do the therapy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And it turns out years later, like they have a psychological condition that's endemic and they have to be on drugs and therapy for it. But you never addressed that because you didn't want to be like, hey, Uncle Bill, I think you're fucking crazy, like crazy, crazy. I think you need pills because you were like, oh, that's not cool. I'm not telling him that you would have been like, you know what?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I'm just not kind enough to build. Nächste Woche bringe ich einen größeren Weihnachts- oder Hanukkah-Geschenk oder was auch immer. Und jedes Jahr bringst du einen größeren Geschenk. Er ist einfach der gleiche Art von Arsch. Nun, es war besser, als wenn du ihm keine Geschenke geben würdest, aber es hat eine Basis gesetzt. Und du denkst dir, was mache ich falsch? Und die Antwort ist nichts.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das ist nur, wer Bill ist. Menschen mit einer sehr niedrigen Wissenswürdigkeit können nur zu einem bestimmten Punkt geholfen werden. They just make different choices. It's like trying to expect your toddler to be formal with greetings and go to school on time by himself. You're like, that's a kid, you can't expect him to do that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
People with low-trade conscientiousness are going to live their lives in different ways and face a cacophony of problems that don't occur to people of high conscientiousness, problems that even exist for an adult.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And if we don't have an understanding that that's a real thing that we should expect, we're going to spend a lot of time and resources that could have alternatively better spent in 50 other different ways. auf das Problem und es wird für Generationen keinen Effekt haben. Wir haben das bereits mit der Bildung in den USA gemacht. Wir haben es bereits mit vielen verschiedenen Faktoren gemacht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Was ich sage, ist, dass wir ein vollständiges Verständnis des Problems haben. Versuche zu verstehen, welche Faktion von dem, was für welche Variablen verantwortlich ist, definitiv die Variablen beantworten, die wir können. Aber dann, wenn Leute sagen, wie kommt es darum, dass es noch Raum übrig bleibt, würde ich future Universitäten sagen, schau, schau, schau. Versus saying,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Why would you even care about that, you fucking Nazi? And then all of a sudden we're back to square one, where we're like, we've deployed all these strategies, we need more strategies. Imagine, we're to a point where trait conscientiousness isn't accounting for all the obesity differences, and you're like, we need more anorectic intervention through drugs.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn man sich über physische Grenzen kümmert, kriegt man nicht wirklich eine große Grenze. And then you think about trajectories. Trajectories have been good so far. And you think, okay, so if intelligence increases a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more, you can start to see certain problems kind of melting away.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
We're gonna drive people so high in the anorectic scale, regular people who don't have low conscientiousness, who could just say, fuck snacks, I don't need any snacks. Die Regierung wird sagen, hier ist die gewünschte Dose von Fuserozepin, die wir nehmen müssen. Sie werden sehr niedrig und schmerzhaft werden. Sie werden osteopenisch werden. Und Sie werden sagen, sie brauchen mehr.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und Sie sagen, nein, nein, nein. Wir haben jetzt wirklich schreckliche Auswirkungen. Das, was Sie versuchen zu ändern, ist etwas, das nicht ändern kann, weil Sie nicht mal die richtige Variante schauen. Es ist wie, wie viel mehr Basketballtraining ich Ihnen geben muss, um Sie zu tunken. Sie sagen, ich bin 5'3". There is no amount of training that's getting me to dunk.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
No, no, no, it's got to be something with the calf tendons. You need to go to Bulgarian basketball camp 24-7. You've just pissed away a child's life changing an unachievable goal.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I don't know any people that I've ever talked to who are genuinely concerned to try to make social changes that think they're working on a 10 to 20% factor. Almost all of them think they're working on an 80% factor and they're not. So I think today. Does that matter? Again, in the present.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yeah, oh yeah. Because how, the government has finite resources. And if you think you have a huge degree of traction on a really big problem, then you're going to pour a lot of resources in that problem. And it's going to take resources away from other problems. Whereas if you realize like, okay, we can pour some resources into this. And to be honest, we're doing,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Why do you think that when the self-esteem movement came about and people labeled that as the trait to focus on, no one called them Nazis? was the opposite of a Nazi ideology. A lot of conservative thinkers called them socialists and communists. When they said the self-esteem. You're going to make up a bunch of entitled assholes and pussies. You're going to pussify a whole generation.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
There was all sorts of nasty things said about that. But fundamentally, when you say, look, who's against people having more self-esteem? Nobody. Nobody. Oh, I mean, somehow, if you could really improve people's self-esteem, people generally think that's a good thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But if you say like, look like some people, the number one cause of the problems in their life is them and how they behave from a largely deeply cultural and genetic perspective. Like, there are entire subsets of American society with nothing racial, by the way. Every race has subsets of their culture that is like YOLO-Culture. Like, live for today. Fuck everything else. Like...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Because a lot of the problems that are extant right now are because of a lack of intelligence. Here's something fun and wildly politically incorrect. So as you measure people's political opinions, you scale them against proxies or direct measurements of their intelligence. There is a massive degree of consensus on political opinions as intelligence scales in either way.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Don't you think that matters? We're not going to go judging people's cultures. It seems nasty to judge people's activities. It seems nasty to blame the victim. And that's why you don't get as much pushback about it. And that's why I'm here embarrassing myself to push back on it for reasons of, again, trade-offs of what issues you attack.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Weil wenn du denkst, dass etwas wirklich vertragbar ist und du hast das Geld zu sparen und es ist wertvoll, dann spendest du das Geld. Wenn du denkst, dass etwas nicht so vertragbar ist, wir haben schon viel Geld verwendet, es scheint keine marginalen Effekte zu haben an diesem Punkt, dann musst du fragen, weil von einer größeren Perspektive her,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
The kind of issues that affect the rest of the world make us look like spoiled fucking children. There are parts of Asia and Africa that are destitute. They need our help. And being a humanist, I don't give a fuck about borders or nations or any of that shit. It has huge value in other regards. But we gotta help real people. And when you're spending hundreds of millions of dollars...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
into nutritional education, where you now know that the returns on investment are teeny tiny and you could be sending hundreds of millions of dollars in development aid properly administered in Africa and South Asia. Oh my God, like you have a hundred to one life-saving potential that you're listening to.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Yes, I would love that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich wünschte, alle wären so einfach.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich denke, es gibt zwei Komponenten, die im echten Weltraum enorm effektiv für die Gesundheit, langfristig, Longevität und eine große Reduktion in Morbidität sind. Eben mehr als eine erhöhte Longevität. Und das ist die Balance von Muskel und Fett, die du hast. Fett ist der wichtigste von ihnen, bei einem Faktor von 8 oder so etwas. Aber Muskel ist auch wichtig.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und also bei jedem gewissen Körpergewicht, wenn du mehr Muskel und weniger Fett hast, Wenn wir Leute sehen, die, sagen wir mal, in ihren 50er-Jahren sind. Sein Blut funktioniert gut. Die Gesundheitsaufgaben sind gut. Keine Bedeutung. A regular, and I don't want to ascribe any opinions to people, so this is all fantasy land nonsense, which really should be the title of the podcast.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Mike's a delusional idiot, and a Nazi. In parentheses, Hitler himself reborn. So, when people in a traditional medical establishment, which I don't ascribe you to be in. I am. Yeah, but you're one of these modern thinking doctors. You don't even smoke cigarettes when taking patients. You know, Dr. Gundry said that. I'm becoming angry at various clips of Gundry in my head.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
People who are less intelligent on average, measured however you like, tend to be more authoritarian in both regard of social and economic freedom. So people that are less intelligent tend to not be for social liberties. They're not super big fans of gay rights, trans rights, women's rights, the whole thing. And they're not big fans of economic freedom in general.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So when people see 50, 55-year-olds in their office, regular health screening, and all the blood work is good, they're like, sweet, have at it. You're great. See you next time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn ich eine Person bin, die einen kleinen Periscope im Büro hat und ich sie sehe, und ich sehe, dass diese Person eine relativ niedrige Anzahl an Skeletalmuskelmasse hat und eine hohe Anzahl an relativer Adipose hat, relativer Körperfett ist höher. Weißt du, Leute, die normales Gewicht haben, aber ein bisschen schmutzig, dreckiges Fett oder was auch immer? Wie ich jetzt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I've been looking at your body for quite some time. I haven't seen anything I've disliked yet. Well, thank you. No problem. For your objective measure. Okay, can we like stop the podcast and get it popping? Yes. The cameras can stay on, by the way. That's a different show, Mike. Oh, nice. I heard that's going well as well. Mine is also. Mostly feet. I digress. When I see that person,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wenn ich der Arzt bin, und ich bin kein medizinischer Arzt, aber wenn ich ein Konsultant für den medizinischen Arzt bin, dann sage ich, hey, Sportwissenschaftler, was denkst du?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich würde sagen, wir müssen versuchen, mit dieser Person über Resistenztraining zu sprechen, konsistente Ernährung, eine Diät mit genügend Protein, um eine Unterschiede zu machen, und versuchen, den Balance ihres Fattes und Muskels durch irgendwelche Wege zu bekommen, Vergrößerung von Fett, Vergrößerung von Muskel.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Normalerweise ist es viel mehr Vergrößerung von Fett, weil Muskelverlust nicht so hoch ist, wie Fettverluste möglich sind. Ich möchte, dass ich sie nächstes Mal im Büro sehe, Sie denken an ältere Leute, wie Willem Dafoe. Weißt du, wer das ist? Es ist egal, wie alt er ist, er ist verdammt lecker. Und er ist ein bisschen gejagt. Nicht gejagt, gejagt, aber er ist wie ein Wiring.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Eine Person, die 55 Jahre alt ist, die Willem Dafoes Körperkomposition, ist für mich eine Person, die außerhalb eines verrückten Drogenhabits, oder wer weiß was, für echte Menschen in der echten Welt,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn man nur den Wert der Körperkomposition als prädiktive Variante für die Zukunft der Morbidität und der Mordhaltung hat, würde ich sagen, wenn du in guter Gesundheit bist, aber du hast einen hohen Niveau von Adipose, einen niedrigen Niveau von Muskelmasse, auch wenn du ein gesundes Gewicht hast, musst du daran arbeiten, deine Muskelmasse höher zu machen und deine Fettmasse niedriger zu machen, weil das einen großen Effekt auf deine Gesundheit hat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wenn ich ein Konsultant für medizinische Ärzte bin, I don't rest until every patient I see over the long term eventually comes back to the office with visible muscularity and no grotesque aggregated adiposity, like massive spare tire, thighs, etc. Or if they flex their arm, there's some hard stuff in there versus just goop. Now, none of this is a personal judgment whatsoever.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I actually don't value people more or less based on how jacked and lean they are to any extent. I don't Ich habe keine Ahnung. Die meisten der besten Leute, die ich in der Welt sehe, ich weiß gar nicht, was ihr Körperkampf ist. Ich habe keine Ahnung.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber aus einer individuellen Perspektive, je muskulärer man sein kann und je leerer man sein kann, besonders das Letzte, aber definitiv das Vorstehende, desto gesunder wird man langfristig sein. Und die Stärke dieser Variablen als Effekte oder Variablen ist so massiv.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
They seem to think that more government regulation is the way to do things. Like anytime they see something wrong, they go, there should be a law against that. Die Menschen, die im Allgemeinen intelligenter werden, fühlen sich mehr libertin in ihren Attitüden zu werden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
dass ich diesen Arzt nicht wollen, der Leute aus seinem Büro mit gutem Blutdruck in ihren 50ern verlässt, die sehr wenig Muskelmasse haben, aber relativ viel Adipose, und nur sagt, du bist bereit zu gehen. Ich will, dass dieser Arzt, wenn es in der Szene der Praxis ist, und politische Gespräche zu ihnen gibt, dass er sagt, hey, du machst dich gut.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Jetzt hat dein DEXA-Scan dich gut gemacht, die Beine sehen stark aus, aber du wirst wirklich, wirklich viel Vorteile haben, wenn du ein bisschen Resistenztraining machst. Hier sind die Ressourcen für das. Hier sind die Ressourcen für die Diät, um mit einem registrierten Diätischen zu arbeiten, um den Körperfett und die Muskulatur aufzubringen. Und die Person wird sagen, warum?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Mein Blut funktioniert gut. Und du wirst sagen, sieh, es ist gut jetzt, aber das, was es gut macht, ist größtenteils, wie viel Fett und Muskel du über Jahre und Jahre und Jahre hast. Das ist meine große Kontention.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
How dare you? I've never been accused of, guys, what word does that, what did he say? I'm not a moron. OxiClean was a great product. Do you know why I say that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie favorieren eine freier Wirtschaft, eine substanziell weniger intelligentere Regulierung, und sie favorieren einen mehr libertineren Anspruch auf soziale Dinge, wie die Attitüde von Leben und Lassen leben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, ich habe nicht gesagt, dass es die Menschheit retten wird. The other thing is, if you deal with highly conscientious people, it's possible to have an effect.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Okay. We could have a long philosophical discussion on what judging people actually means. I appraise everyone I ever meet. Okay. I've been on dates before where the girl's like, are you judging me? I'm like, absolutely. Okay.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Can you tell the audience? Oh, I'm not trying to cancel myself anytime soon. Discrimination is the ability to tell things apart. Thomas Sowell auf meinem T-Shirt, man, ich kann das nicht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, genau. Also grundsätzlich erstens, ja, wenn du Leuten mit hohem Verständnis sagst, hey, lege Gewicht auf und esse besser, reduziere dein Körperfett, wer gibt das? So people with high conscientiousness, they'll have a better time of it and be able to do better.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But this brings me to the next part of my talk, where this kind of social effect is going to hit some people, but it requires so much effort in our modern food environment to constrain your adiposity, to increase your muscularity. dass viele Leute es einfach nicht finden. Es ist etwas, das sich in ihren Schedule einschränkt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wenn du die Anzahl der Intelligenz im System erhöhen kannst, wird es einen präsentierbar besseren Ort für uns alle zu leben, weil wenn du Menschen hast, die im Allgemeinen weniger intelligent sind, ein Institution oder ein Land oder wo auch immer, die es generell sehr schlecht machen. Und du hast all die sozialen Schwierigkeiten, die du in einer Vielfalt von Bereichen sehen kannst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und ich denke, dass wenn du eine Situation hast, in der du Leuten sagst, dass wirklich Ärzte auf der ganzen Welt Resistenztraining drücken. Sie drücken wirklich die Erhöhung der Adipose, sogar die Relativ-Adipose, wenn die BMI nicht zu hoch ist. Du wirst einen substanziellen Effekt haben, der in diesem 10 Prozent der Lösung des Problems besteht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber das sind wie Tausende von Millionen von Menschen, deren Leben gestärkt worden sind. Es ist wundervoll. genau wie ich denke, dass deine soziologische Sache wunderbar ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber du magst es nicht. Nein, ich liebe es. Ich denke einfach nur, dass es nicht super mächtig ist. Also stimme ich mit totaler Konsistenz. Given, dass deine Karriere über die nicht super mächtige Sache geht. Ehrlich gesagt, meine Karriere geht um Sportwissenschaften. Es ist ein Hobby. Ich arbeite in der Unternehmensindustrie. Legitim, Sport ist Unternehmenswissenschaft. Also, das sei der Fall.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich denke, der nächste Schritt, und das wurde gut in einem Reviewartikel beschrieben, letztlich geschrieben, Wir müssen wirklich ernsthaft über die Entwicklung eines non-androgenischen anabolischen Drogens übersehen. Wir haben also die modernen anorektischen Drogen, die GLPs, GIPs, Glucagon, Agonis. Das hat uns ermöglicht, den Körpergewicht zu reduzieren, wenn wir die Drogen tolerieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Werden Sie einfach die Dosis schrauben, und dann kommen Sie zum Körpergewicht. So lange Sie sich nur auf die richtigen Dinge interessieren. Das ist nicht der Fall. Ich werde Sie den ganzen Tag diskutieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Oh, klar. Dann hast du auch ein riesiges Anzahl von Fettzellen, die an diesem Punkt wirklich laut schreien. Und sie können einfach nicht genug die Dose aufrufen. Deshalb habe ich die Side Effects erwähnt. Wenn du die Side Effects aufrufen und die Dose aufrufen könntest, könntest du Menschen in der... 500, 600 Pound range to weigh 100 pounds within a matter of years.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But they're going to look like skin bags or whatever, which I will say, I have to say this as much as possible. The skin removal techniques as an industry, surgical and non-surgical, are the trillion dollar question for modern medicine in the late 2020s, early 2030s. So whoever the fuck is listening, Halt mich auf, ich investiere in deine Firma.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
J.K., bitte, äh, ich weiß nicht, fühlt euch gerne an. Ich weiß nicht, ob ihr die E-Mail sehen werdet, aber es ist ein großes Problem, richtig? Weil ich sage, ich nehme all diese Drogen und helfe so vielen Leuten, die Gewicht verlieren. Und viele Leute denken, ich werde Gewicht verlieren und ich werde aussehen wie, was auch immer, wie die Feindin, die ich mag.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und sie sind so, oh, Scheiße, Hautverlust geht nicht weg. Und so ist Hautverlust ein großes, großes Problem in der Zukunft.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Interessant. Aber vielleicht könnten sie auch Skin-Revolution machen. Ja, sicher. Und es ist auch eine sehr andere Sache, wenn man die medizinischen Techniken entwickelt, die effektiv sind, wenn man sich in einem sehr kniffligen Bereich der Medizin befindet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es ist einfach kein riesiges Umfeld, in dem eine große Teil der Ökonomie und eine große Anzahl von Gedanken, wie man diese Probleme lösen kann. Es gibt viele Leute, die über Herzschmerzen denken, sehr wenige Leute, die über austere, monogenen Bedingungen denken. Es gibt drei Leute in der Welt, die ihre Bedingungen studieren. Ich bin wirklich entschuldigt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Hoffentlich werden wir in der Zukunft mehr AI darüber lernen. Aber ich denke, als literally Tens von Millionen von Leuten Kandidaten für Skin Removal Surgery werden, wird das Seite von Plastik explodieren. Weil es ist wie, oh mein Gott, wie jemand, der herausfindet, dass 10x teurer und effektiver, einfach zu beheben und ästhetisch mehr bequem Skin Removal Technik ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Bro, the medical companies that do the tech and the doctors that do the surgeries, huge. In any case, I digress.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Während, als die Menschen intelligenter werden, oder als das Übergang von Menschen plus Maschinenintelligenz besser wird, werden die Dinge overall besser. Und wenn du das auswertest, bist du an einem Punkt so wie, man, wenn unser kollektives IQ, uns plus Maschinen, noch 10 Punkte erhöht wird, A lot of places are going to be freer, more prosperous and cleaner and more stable and have less war.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Oh boy, that's a whole other thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
die von einer signifikanten Längsschleimhaut auslösen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, sehr. Wie auslöst das? Weil jetzt kannst du Junkfood essen und es macht keinen Sinn. Nein, aber du konsumierst weniger Junkfood. Yeah, less. You're not going to eat zero. And now you can eat tons of junk food. And as long as you get your protein and all the healthy foods in, you're not going to be excessive on calories because you fill up so fast.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So now junk food companies want you to believe that junk food can be part of a healthy, balanced diet. And they're completely correct for a small fraction of people that have very low food drive. In the future, with modern electric drugs being ubiquitous, everyone's going to have low food drive. And it's actually true to say, like, dude, get a bag of Cheetos.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And people are like, well, I don't know. They're going to leave. No, they're not. Have a bag. Ja, genau. High protein, healthy food, but fun snacking industry. You got a lot of people now that are losing weight, they're empowered by these beautiful new drugs.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
But they're like, I still kind of want to eat some fun foods, but I know some of this shit's not good for me and these medicines have put me on the right path. Is there any way I can eat potato chips that aren't going to fucking kill me? Healthy junk food is just glazed with glory and profit, I think.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, hell ja, weil es mehr Leute geben wird.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
So I do have an interesting prediction. There is not a real war, not a hot war, no shots exchanged. There is a war between hyperpalatable foods and modern anorectic medications. The response for foods development now is going to be like, okay, people are eating less with Ozempic. How do we make our food so fucking tasty? Even with Osempic that they continue to eat them in large quantities.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
It's a cool thing. Eventually it's just going to make a lot of food really, really amazing and really, really cheap. And a lot more people who want to be just as lean as they like eating those amazing cheap foods in moderation. But if in like 10 years you're not on a moderate anorectic drug.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
und du bist wie der mittlere Ernährungsaufwand, und du isst einfach alles, was auf deiner Stimme erscheint, dann ist die Wahrscheinlichkeit, dass du obese wirst, unglaublich hoch. Das selbe Vorbild, wie es in den 50ern war. Denk an die 50er, richtig? Nicht so viele hyperpalatierbare Füße. Nur normale Menschen mit normalen Appetiten, die heute 300 Kilo sind, waren 175 Kilo damals.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Du wirst sagen, in den 20er-20er-Jahren Du wirst fett werden. Das ist Bullshit. Keine Ahnung. Das Essen wird so gut und so teuer sein, du hast keine Ahnung. Das ist das Wichtigste für 2020. Du hast recht. Ich kann nicht stoppen, dieses Essen zu essen. Diese Trende werden weitergehen. Die Osempic-Stuffe haben nicht geendet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Because if you think about it for like a little bit, you know, basic economics, very basic economics, war almost never makes logical sense. Almost ever. Like should we attack the Netherlands? Warum? Um ihre Ressourcen zu bekommen. Wir können ihre Ressourcen einfach kaufen. Wir können sie gratis bekommen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie sind nur ein weiteres Salvo in dieser Kämpfe, von den Unternehmen, die dir Freude bringen. Aber idealerweise bringen dir die besten Unternehmen dir alle Freude, ohne die Seiteffekte. Das ist der Grund, warum ich denke, dass heilige Essen, die super lecker sind, aber für dich gut sind und dich erfüllen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Mein Gott, stell dir vor, eine Packung Chips, die du kaufen könntest, die sehr nützlich war, unglaublich lecker war. and was super, super affordable, you would just eat that regularly. And because that company continues to sell you chips and has nothing to apologize for and can advertise like, you can make this part of your diet, Can you name one food like that right now?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Oh, I have a really good example. Fairlife Shakes. The dairy-based protein shakes? Correct. They are unbelievably delicious and really, really nutritious as well. All right. Are you sponsored by them? No, God no. Fairlife, please sponsor us. I love them. I love you. I'll sing your praises. Dude, Fairlife's amazing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es gibt viele coole Hähnchen-Sausagen, die sie jetzt haben, die man in der Strecke aufbauen kann, die unglaublich makro sind, super hohe Protein, Low-Fat, und sie sind ultra lecker und super gesund. He-Meyern. Sag das noch einmal.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Oh, ja, sicher. Ja. Na, lass uns zusammen eine Sausage machen, die das Prime-Drink ist. Was ist das? Lunchly von Sausagen? Lunchly. Es ist schrecklich, was du auf Twitter gemacht hast, übrigens. Was habe ich auf Twitter gemacht? Ich bin verrückt. Du hattest einen Post über Twitter, der alle deine... Oh, YouTube. Make-believe-tweets of yours, remember? Yeah, isn't that wild? That's so fun, yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
All's fair in love and thumbnails and titles.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I don't agree with that. Well, that's my opinion, not yours. What the hell were we talking about earlier when you took me off track on the philosophical bullshit? Oh, yes, yes. Probably more philosophical. No, no, no, I got it. So it's all the same. So doctor's offices and telling people, hey, you should lift more weights and do this. Non-androgenic anabolics.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wir haben bereits mit Medikamenten den Problem des Ernährungs- und Ernährungsbedürfnisses geschlossen. Aber jetzt haben wir ein noch größeres Problem an der Muskelmasse. Es gab früher Muskelmasse. Lose Muskelmasse war etwas, was v.a. ältere Individuen beeinflusste. Individuen von bestimmten ethnischen Gruppen mehr als andere. Menschen aus Südostasien kämpfen mit Lose Muskelmasse.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Du hast viele Meta-Daten gesehen auf deren Gesundheit. Die Leute in ihren late 20s, die Type 2 Diabetes haben und du sagst, du bist nicht mal überwältigt. Muskel-Fat-Ratio ist alles witzig, richtig?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Nein, du musst sie trotzdem kaufen, denn einige von uns leben dort und sie verkaufen uns diese Sachen. Wie der ganze Krieg für Öl-Nonsens. Es ist fast sicher nur pure Nonsens. Der Krieg für Öl in der modernen Zeit ist einfach nicht geschehen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und so was wir können, wir hatten, und das wird immer schlimmer und schlimmer ein Problem über die Zeit, ist die einzige Sache, die viele, viele übergewichtige Amerikaner, nicht-sarkopäische, was heißt, genug Muskelmasse, um keine Aktivitäten des täglichen Lebens oder metabolische Dysregulationen zu verursachen. Das Einzige, was sie gebraucht hat, war ihr enormes Nahrungsverbrauch.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn du mehr Nahrung isst, bekommst du auch mehr Muskel und Fett. Jetzt essen sie weniger Nahrung, aber es geht nicht um Fitness und Aktivität, nicht um all das. Du wirst also diese neuen modernen Antirektik-Medikamente sehen, die eine neue Wave von Sarcopenia bewegen. Nahrungsverbrauch und Übernahrung haben nur diese Wave von Sarcopenia übernommen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Denn viele ältere Erwachsene sind nicht sarcopenisch, aber sobald du sie in Körpergewicht nimmst, oh mein Gott, sind sie sarcopenisch. Wir brauchen die Entwicklung eines non-androgenischen Anabolikers, weil Anaboliksteroide Muskeln wirklich gut bilden. Aber sie haben etwa 18 Trillionen verschiedene Auswirkungen oder sind nur ein Non-Starter.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn du einen non-androgenischen Anaboliker hast, der potenziell das Myostatin-Regulierungssystem schützt, das ultra-powervoll ist. Hast du jemals diese Kühe gesehen, die zwei Mal die Muskeln der normalen Kühe haben oder der Greyhound oder der Maus oder was auch immer? Das ist bereits ein monogenes Vektor von Angriff, den wir entwickeln können.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und wer weiß, ich bin nicht in der pharmazeutischen Rückseite, aber ich garantiere dir, dass einige Unternehmen arbeiten. Oh ja. Also, das sind alle traktable Probleme. Und sobald wir einen monogenen Angriff haben, können wir Dual-Therapie präsentieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Also, anstatt in den Büro zu kommen und zu sagen, du sollst Gewicht heben und besser essen, und sie sind so, okay, du bist so, okay, wir sehen uns am nächsten Montag.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das wäre dope. Okay, also ich komme nicht zurück. Ich denke nur laut. Zwei Juden kommen zusammen und sprechen. Oh, du bist falsch. Ein einziges Injektion wäre dope. Die Sache ist, dass Menschen verschiedene Genetiken für Muskulatur und Ernährung haben. Und so ein einziges Injektion würde eine Menge Gutes tun.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Aber ich denke, zwei Pillen können auch Sinn machen, weil manche Leute nicht viel mehr Muskel brauchen, aber sie brauchen viel weniger Ernährung. Die andere Seite ist auch der Fall. But in any case, let's just go with one pill, right, to make it super simple. People come in today, we're like, hey, go resistance train and eat better. They're like, dope, see you, never. And they fucking don't do it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Nowadays, now, some of them do, and that's great. But now, maybe in the future, when we get a non-androgenic anabolic developed that's safe and effective and really very targeted, then we have the situation where people are taking a medication that not only lowers blood pressure, Let's say, back to two medications, just to keep this very clear.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And so as you scale up your intelligence, your emotional reasoning tends to capture less and less of your cognitive bandwidth. I don't know if I agree with that. It's just demonstrably true empirically. On average, now there are absolutely exceptions of smart people. You're really having a lot of feelings.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
They're taking a medication that lowers their overall body weight and adiposity. They've brought the fat down. Now they're taking a medication that does two things. One, it brings the muscularity up. And if they want to engage in resistance training for mobility, for health, für Kraft, für Leidenschaft, für Komponente, es macht das eine viel fruchtbarere Unternehmensarbeit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich kann dir nicht sagen, wie viele Leute ich gesucht habe und trainiert und gesehen habe in den letzten Jahren, die Leute sagen, Resistenz trainieren, das ist großartig. Das sind Leute mit guten Genetiken, die oft jung sind. Das sind ältere Leute mit nicht so guten Genetiken für Muskeln. Bro, sie sind im Gym, Wochen und Wochen und Wochen. Etwas passiert, aber nicht viel.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn du dir die Ersatzwissenschaftsdaten direkt anschaust, wirst du bemerken, dass es eine Gruppe von Leuten gibt, vielleicht etwa eine Fünftel von allen, die in einem Ersatzwissenschaftsstudium sind, Sie heben nicht auf und in 16 Wochen machen sie das drei Mal pro Woche. Etwas wie ein Fünftel dieser Leute verdienen unbeobachtbare Mengen Muskel.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn in den ersten 16 Wochen eines Programms du unbeobachtbare Muskeln nicht verdienst. Die Leute sprechen von Neub-Erneuerungen. Du verdienst eine wilde Unabhängigkeit von deinem Muskel in den ersten Wochen. Wenn das nicht für dich passiert, Can you imagine your doctor says lift weights? You do. You come back a year later. You're like, three days a week I've been doing an RP hypertrophy app.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I did it all. And they measure to do the dexterity. You're like, you lost a pound of muscle. That legitimately happens. So just to cut this off at the pass, I'm not saying we need to replace resistance training in gyms with modern... nicht-androgenische Antibiotika. Sie werden für jeden empfohlen werden. Wenn du nie ins Gym gehst, dann werden sie auch für dich empfohlen werden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Dann können wir in dieser Welt kommen, in der die Leute in ihren 50ern, 60ern, 70ern sind, und sie sind lecker, und sie haben viel Muskelmasse, nicht viel, nur eine gute Menge, und es wird die Krankheit auf der ganzen Ebene in einer unglaublich tiefen Weise beeinflussen. Denn wenn ich Leute sehe, die in ihren 50ern, 60ern, etc. sind, und sie sind lecker, sie sind nicht groß, sie sind lecker,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I'm thinking fuck man, five or 10 years, you're gonna break something or your Type 2 Diabetes is gonna go up and what do I do about this one? You know, eat better and try to make better choices. They already eat pretty well. They just don't have enough muscle. There's no glucose sink. You solve that problem. It's enormous. Now, the first wave of AI-powered drug discovery is already cresting.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Die meisten pharmazeutischen Firmen sind ziemlich offen darauf, worauf sie arbeiten. Es ist nicht so, weil sie arbeiten auf Alzheimer, Diabetes, verrückte Problematik, die Millionen haben. Ich denke, das wird hoffentlich nächstes Jahr sein. Und wenn es passiert, wird es ein großer Deal sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Es ist mehr eine Hoffnung als eine Prediktion, wirklich.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, und ich denke, das ist einfach unglaublich offensichtlich. Und normalerweise bist du sehr gut bei Pushback. Ich habe von dir in diesem Bereich nicht viel gehört, weil es eine echte Sache ist. Und ich denke, so viele Leute wissen nicht, dass eine höhere Muskulatur in einem bestimmten Körper so gesundheitlich promotiert ist. Und wenn du einen non-androgenischen Anabolic in der Mischung hast,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
via nutrient partitioning, most of what you eat now goes to feed the muscle, because it's so hungry all the time. And so it actually is a second order effect, is to keep you leaner. So for any amount of food you eat, if you're on a decent dose of non-androgenic anabolic, Du wirst eigentlich lehnlicher werden, weil Muskel einfach mehr von diesem Raum besitzt und mehr von deiner Nahrung nimmt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wie du weißt, wenn du viel lehnst und lehnst und alles, dann isst du einfach viel Nahrung. Und die Leute sagen, du wirst nicht fettig. Du denkst, ich weiß nicht, Mann, ich lehne so viel Gewicht und ich habe so viel Muskel. Ich habe so viel Muskel. Ich bin einfach so hungrig und esse immer. Und mein Fett ist so, verdammt, füge mich. Und es ist nichts mehr.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das ist so eine starke Sache, dass ich mich wirklich auf diese Zukunftsentwicklung aufgeregt fühle. Und ich hoffe, dass die Leute, die vielleicht in einer pharmazeutischen Firma arbeiten, sagen können, ich weiß nicht, sprich den CEO oder so etwas. Sag ihm, hey, hier muss Geld gemacht werden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich bin überrascht, dass du denkst, dass gerade Menschen nicht denken, dass Muskeln ein großer Teil der Gesundheit sind. Ich denke, dass sie das tun, aber ich denke, dass sie eine Größe der Größe entfernt sind, wie groß ein Komponent ist, wie wichtig es ist. Es gibt eine Sache, wenn man die Bedeutung von etwas nominiert, und es gibt eine Sache, wie wichtig es ist. Wie wichtig ist es?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Nein, sehr wichtig. Ich denke, dass die Leute mehr darauf wechseln müssen. Das ist wirklich wichtig. Okay. Muscle ist sehr wichtig. Du bist ein Nazi.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
You're too important to invite. We've invited you 10 times and your butlers keep saying that the mail's going to some other part of the compound, they call it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Geez, you're making me brainstorm live.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
People are going to see how that mind works. Sure, no problem. Flex the Jew brain. Got it. I would love to talk to you about if I am a male in my 30s and 40s and 50s. I lift regularly. I eat well. Aber ich weiß nichts über Ärzte und Medizin und Pille und was ich vermissen könnte und all diese anderen Sachen. Vielleicht bin ich auf TRT, vielleicht nicht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Wenn ich mit meinem Ärzte sprechen gehe, was für Läden muss ich mich interessieren? Was ist A1c? Was bedeutet das? Wie weiß ich, dass das, was ich heute mache, mich für Gesundheit, Longevität und Muskulatur später aufbaut? Versus wie, du bist auf dem wirklich falschen Weg.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich weiß, dass du gut lebst und isst, aber du hast dieses ganze Ding verpasst, was echte Ärzte wissen, weil ich ihnen über Übungen und generelle Gesundheit erzähle. Aber ich weiß fast nichts über die medizinische Seite. Ich würde gerne, dass du in die Blöcke fällst. Wie redest du mit deinem Arzt über Blutdruck? Welche anderen Maßnahmen kannst du nehmen? Was sind wirklich die tiefsten Dinge?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Gibt es irgendwelche Medikamente, die du nehmen solltest? Eine andere ist das. Welche Multivitaminen und Multimineralen sollte ich nehmen? Can I ask my doctor to test me for deficiencies? Because the big thing is, the great canon has been so far, if you're eating a well-balanced diet, you don't need a multivitamin.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
And that's true, but still millions of Americans have various vitamin and mineral deficiencies, low-grade ones. But if you fix them, you're gonna get some ROI. Is that a thing I talk to my doctor about? Because unfortunately, you can talk to doctors about it, but you can go, no offense, to the local health food store, and they're like, yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und es gibt nichts... Du bist auf der Ebene von empirischer Glaubwürdigkeit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Well, I broke it yesterday in my own home.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Being that you are you and look like you are? Powerlifters will find this funny. I'll be like, oh, what federation and with what triple-ply shirt? But that's an austere reference. So I would say, oh, that's cool. And then I would tell my friends you're insane.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
With the way I understand proofs to work in philosophy, probabilistically, through inference, yes. Probabilistically? Oh, yeah. But not with 100% certainty? No. You could just be a total freak.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Totally. And what my audience would like to hear, I think, are not protocols. They get those plenty from those other folks. I think what they would like to hear is how to think about the situation of, I'm an adult who's pretty healthy, who exercises and eats well. But what about on the medical and diagnostic side do I need to be aware of and talk to my doctor about?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Großartig. Das ist es wirklich. Weil die Übersetzung, viele Male Ärzte machen das, was ich dir vorhin gesagt habe, wo ein 55-Jähriger, der vermischt ist, sagt, dein Blut sieht gut aus, wir sehen uns nächstes Mal. Für Fitnessleute ist das mehr so ein Konundrum. weil sie sagen, dass ihr Blutwerk groß ist. Ich meine, es ist steil für ihre Äußerung, aber sie wollen mehr.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie wollen eine zusätzliche Sicherheitspolitik für Gesundheit und Fitness. Und weil der Arzt nur in Generalitäten handelt, weil das ist, wie sie getrainiert wurden, und das ist die Mehrheit der Bevölkerung, bekommen sie nie die Aufmerksamkeit und Aufmerksamkeit, die sie brauchen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und eine andere Sache, die ich dir in der Zukunft gerne fragen würde, ist, wie gehen wir darum, einen Arzt zu wählen, der mehr mit Fitnesspersonen arbeitet und weiß, okay, du willst extra A-plus Aufmerksamkeit, weil du es bereit bist, dann was suchst du? Weil hier ist das große Problem.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Most of the people that are looking for the A-plus in fitness end up being like, my doctor is a 70-year-old man who thinks that because I lift weights, I'm going to hurt my back. And even though he's okay with my blood work and everything, he says, you're fine, you're fine. Lots of doctors will be like, you're fine, everything's fine. See you later. 15 minutes are up. Who's left over to go to?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
If we can't find an evidence-based practitioner that can give them that extra boost, like, look, let's look at your vitamin D levels over every three-month time span. Things that aren't worth most of the general population, but are worth it to you. Let's do it in an evidence-based way that makes sense. But there are so few of those people around and so difficult to find.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I'd love to ask you about how to find them. wie man das kennen kann, weil diese Leute oft zu Quacks gehen. Und die sagen, der ist der Einzige, der über Verbesserungen spricht. Der Mensch, oder was auch immer Gary Brekus sagt. Ich bin ein Mensch-Biologe. Ich spreche meistens mit Primatologen darüber.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Das ist, wer die schlechtesten Menschen sind. Das ist die lineare Korrelation.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ich weiß ein bisschen etwas über das. Die annualen Variationen in der Nahrung. Siehst du, Mike, wenn die Sonne die Früchte schlägt, habe ich nichts.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Mike, ich freue mich auf dich. Ich liebe es. Vielen Dank.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Maybe. So, to the first point of noble laureates questioning their ability or illustrating their ability to sort of justify anything they like, the fact that they're introspective enough to know that that's happening is already alienating them and allowing them to group. Well, I don't think they're aware of it. I think we studying them are aware of it. Oh, I see.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
I think some of them have talked about it openly. Maybe. And we are being less intelligent than noble laureates, probably less self-aware than they are. Und wenn wir selbstbewusst sind, müssen wir uns fragen, was ist mit Menschen mit einer substanziell niedrigeren Intelligenz? Sie sind im Allgemeinen substanziell weniger bewusst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Und deshalb sind sie apt, die meisten emotional beobachtete Entscheidungen zu machen. Als Fakt ist es so, dass viele Leute, wenn man ihnen fragt, was sie über Politik denken, eine völlig andere Frage beantworten. Sie antworten, ich trage meine Thomas-Soul-Shirt an, um das genau zu beschreiben. Das ist seine damalige Position. Die meisten Menschen fühlen sich in gewissen Gründen in der Politik.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Ja, sie sind nur kategorisch falsch. Das ist nicht wirklich ein debattierbares Thema. für Menschen, die in diesem Bereich tief enttäuscht sind. Ich kann es von einer Vielzahl von Angeln beobachten, um diesen Punkt zu illustrieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
Sie denken nicht in gewissen Gründen in der Politik. Das ist das Falsche, denn die Politik fragt die Frage, wie man eine Gesellschaft für den maximalen Vorteil runten kann. However you define that, it's a technical question. It's a machine question. It's not a question of how you feel about things. Most people feel rather than think about these kinds of topics.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Who's To Blame If You're Fat? | Dr. Mike Israetel
People who are more intelligent tend to think on the margins more than not. And people who are less intelligent tend to feel more than not. Also, wenn du denkst, dass Nobelpreisträger gebiased sind, dann solltest du mit jemandem mit einer sehr niedrigeren Intelligenz sprechen. Und dann wirst du wahrscheinlich exklusiv gebiased und fast nichts anderes sehen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Hated By Anti-Vaxxers & His Public Fallout w/ Joe Rogan | Dr. Peter Hotez
And I want to play a little soundbite for you of something you said during a episode with Joe Rogan. And I want to give you credit here because I think a lot of credit is due.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
One of the few doctors on social media that I think is doing an amazing job following the evidence, telling the truth when it comes to complexities in healthcare related to AI, longevity, truly the science behind the research that's going on.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich sehe diesen Pattern ziemlich oft, wo man jemanden hat, der sehr interessiert ist, in der Zukunft des Gesundheitswesens zu suchen. Und sie springen über viele der wichtigen Schritte, die man braucht, um Forschung zu validieren, um zu verstehen, ob es auf einer breiten Ebene funktioniert, zwischen interpersonaler Variabilität, zwischen Sicherheit mit anderen Medikamenten.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und all diese Dinge werden überprüft, um weiter zu versuchen. Aber wie wir es historisch gesehen haben, nicht nur in den letzten 20 Jahren, sondern auch in den letzten 100 Jahren, gab es Dinge, die wir als Experten in die Richtung gebracht haben, die sehr gefährlich waren. Und das führt zu etwas so Wildes wie Blutblutung oder zu sehr extremen Fällen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich denke, die Art und Weise, wie wir auf dem Weg kommen, ist, diese Gespräche zu haben und ein Licht auf die negativen Wege zu schenken, um über Longevität zu sprechen. Ich hatte auch einen Gast auf dem Podcast, Brian Johnson. Oh mein Gott. Der ist berühmt, einige sehr extreme Dinge zu tun, sich selbst zu testen, ob es ihm länger helfen wird.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ich habe mein Publikum erwartet, das nicht für sich selbst zu versuchen, auch nicht Angst vor sich selbst zu vermitteln, dass sie, wenn sie das nicht haben, an einem Wunder-Kür-All-Produkt verpasst werden, weil es nicht existiert. Diese Dinge sind nicht nur unbeprobt, sondern verprobt, dass sie in vielen Fällen schädlich sind. Was ist dein Ansatz auf das ganze Brian-Johnson-Spektakel?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wie hast du dich interessiert, in der Rede zu sprechen über AI-Healthcare, speziell auf der Webseite, wo das nicht ein natürlicher Ort für einen Arzt ist, um sich selbst zu finden?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Nein, das ist es definitiv. Die Dinge, die er richtig sagt, sind, aus dem Sonnenlicht zu bleiben, um den Krankheitsrisiko zu reduzieren, zu exercizieren, zu schlafen, die richtigen Stunden pro Nacht. Aber auch das Schlafen, die richtigen Stunden pro Nacht, wird zu einem Extrem genommen, wo er bezeichnet, dass er nur einen perfekten Schlafsatz hat. Aber das ist nicht das Leben in der Realität.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Dein Körper kann eine Nacht weniger schlafen, weil du ein Leben, ein Kind, einen Job, etc. hast.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, das ist der Grund, warum viele meiner Patienten, die mit Schlafen kämpfen, schnell ein Home-Sleep-Study bestellen, um zu beobachten, ob eine Schlafhypnose da ist. Es ist eine der größten Gründe, vor allem in unserer übergewachsenen Bevölkerung, eine Art von schädelndem Schlafen zu machen, ohne es überhaupt zu erkennen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Für mich ist Hyperoptimierung eine Krankheit geworden. Übungen sind gut. nicht Sport spielen, weil du Angst vor einem Schaden hast und du denkst, dass das dein Athleten-Score zerstört, Problem. Schlafen, 7-9 Stunden pro Nacht, ist gut. Von einer OCD-Perspektive versuchen zu halten, die gleichen 7-9 Stunden ständig zu zerstören, ist nicht gut.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ich fühle mich mit der Biohacking-Community so, dass sie glauben, mehr ist besser, Aber im Gesundheitswesen ist das Perfekte das Gegenteil des Guten und das Beste ist eigentlich die Balance. Und die Balance ist in dieser Diskussion verloren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Er hat gesagt, dass...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich glaube, das ist witzig. Vielleicht hat die Großmutter das Recht, mit diesem altartigen Hinweis. Ja, da gibt es viel dazu. Erzähl mir mehr über diese biologische Uhr, denn ich weiß, dass Brian Johnson oft gesagt hat, dass sein Penis 27 Jahre alt ist, sein Gehirn 40 Jahre alt ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich habe eigentlich nur eine Skala genutzt, die eine Firma mir gesendet hat, und sie hat mir gesagt, dass mein biologischer, metabolischer Alter 26 oder so war, auch wenn ich 34 oder 35 Jahre alt war. Ist das ein validierter Weg, das Alter zu messen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ist es einfacher, nur dein Cholesterol zu betrachten, einen Blutdruckkopf zu bekommen und diese Zahlen zu prüfen, Risiken durch diese Weise herauszufinden, anstatt biologisch zu kalkulieren?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Yeah, how does this work on a practical, actionable sense? So, for example, for my patients over the age of 40, I calculate ASCVD risk score, a 10-year score of them having a stroke or heart attack. And then from there, I can decide whether or not they're a good candidate for a statin or other modalities. So...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich erinnere mich an ein Video eines Fernsehprogramms mit Chris Hemsworth und Peter Attia, in dem sie Chris Hemsworth erzählten, dass er einen erhöhten Risiko für Alzheimer hatte und das seine Weltanschauung drastisch verändert hat. I don't know if that's a good test.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
And I don't know if I would recommend that test for my patients, because outside of making healthy lifestyle changes, which I've been preaching to them before getting the results of that test, what changes finding out that you're high risk for a condition like that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Diese Lebensstilveränderungen sind so wertvoll für nicht nur... Also jede einer dieser Adaptationen von Übungen, Ernährung, Schlaf, soziale Entschädigung, eine kräftige mentale Gesundheit zu erschaffen. Sie sind nicht nur für den Risiko von Alzheimer wert, sondern für so viele andere Risiken. Und ich als Familienmediziner finde mich in einem ungewöhnlichen Raum,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
um darüber zu sprechen, weil die meisten Menschen, die in diesem Bereich sind, von einer Longevity-Stand-point sprechen oder von einer Forschungs-Stand-point. Und von diesen Stand-points her ist all diese Forschung sehr aufregend. Für mich, wenn ich versuche, den Patienten vor mir so gesund wie möglich zu machen, denke ich nicht nur über eine Krankheit. Ich denke nicht über ein Organ.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich denke über sie als Einzelne. Also holistisch. Und wenn ich über sie holistisch denke, möchte ich, dass sie diese Änderungen instituieren, unabhängig von ihrem P-Tau-Niveau. So that's why I don't know how much it changes my guidance versus why I like the ASCVD risk is because that might change my guidance about medication.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Whereas I would never recommend a healthy, low-risk person to take a statin. But if they're at high risk, now I can implement something that would have negative repercussions from someone healthy, but positive repercussions for someone who has potentially high risk for having one of these instances.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Du sagst, es ist ein motivierendes Werkzeug, es könnte wertvoll sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Als du auf Social Media kamst, um über die Forschung zu sprechen, war das primär während der Corona-Pandemie die erste Zeit, dass du auf Social Media warst?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich habe wirklich geredet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Gibt es irgendwelche Dinge auf dem Horizont, in Bezug auf präventive Tätigkeiten, außer den GLP-1-Medikamenten, die für jemanden, der eine erhöhte Risiko für eine neurodegenerative Krankheit hat, in der Suche sind, dass, wenn sie herausfinden, dass sie nicht nur Lebensmittelveränderungen machen, sondern dass es eine Art Medikament gibt oder ein anderer Ansatz?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Well, das ganze Hypothesis ist auch ein bisschen schräg.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich will oft mehr Behandlung, aber ich weiß auch, dass, wenn man keine guten, validierten Daten dahinter hat, es leichter ist, in die falsche Richtung zu gehen. In meiner Karriere ist ein guter Beispiel Aspirin für primäre Behandlung. Und wie wir das zurückgezogen haben, weil wir in neueren Forschungen gelernt haben,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
So I'm hoping that we can do this in a way where we're not putting the cart before the horse and we're taking a patient-centric approach and not rushing the research in order to put out good data as opposed to rushing and putting out something that perhaps might not be helpful in the long term.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich hatte gerade einen Residenz, der den Fall präsentierte und sagte, der Patient nimmt Aspirin für eine Prä-Surgical-Erklärung. Ich sagte, warum? Und er sagte, ich weiß es nicht. Und ich sagte, das ist, wo wir recherchieren, wo wir einsteigen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Dr. Paul Offit, der auf diesem Kanal ein Multi-Guest war, hat einen tollen Begriff dafür, medizinische Inertie, wo wir mit der alten Medizin weitergehen, ohne tatsächlich das Neue zu sehen. Aber wir müssen das auch mit der neuen Medizin vergleichen, ohne zu weit voranzukommen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich bin interessiert, als jemand, der in der Technik und in der Gesundheit sehr oft schaut, was ist deine Meinung auf den kontinuierlichen Glukosmonitor? Denn ich habe viele Fragen von Patienten, die weder Type 1 Diabetes noch Type 2 Diabetes haben, die daran interessiert sind. Ich habe Influencer gesehen, vor allem die Glukosgottin. Ich weiß nicht, ob du sie gehört hast. Ja, ich habe sie gehört.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Sie ist im Buch. Sie empfiehlt, dass jeder einen Glukosmonitor bekommt, um zu beurteilen, die Velocity oder der Aufstieg der Spiken. Und für mich, aus meiner Verständnis, habe ich keine Ahnung, was mit diesem Daten zu tun hat, Wenn ich jemanden mit Hemoglobin A1c anschaue, weiß ich, was ich tun soll. Wenn ich jemanden mit Blut-Sugar-Fasern anschaue, weiß ich, was ich tun soll.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wenn ich einen 2-Hour-Post-Prandial anschaue, weiß ich, was ich tun soll. Aber wenn ich einen Post-Meal-Elevation anschaue, weiß ich nicht, was ich mit diesem Datum machen soll. Ist da etwas, das ich hier verpasst habe, oder sind es Leute, die den Karpfen vor den Horsen stellen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Oder das Mikrobiom kann sich verändern und dann kann es nicht das gleiche sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich denke an die Auswirkungen, so wie du gesagt hast, dass die gesamte Körper-MRI negativen Auswirkungen haben kann. Ich erinnere mich daran, dass ich genetische Tests gemacht habe und es sagte, dass ich einen hohen Risiko für die Entwicklung von Typ 2 Diabetes habe. Und ich sagte mir, oh, soll das bedeuten, dass ich rausgehe und einen Ton refined Zucker esse? Was ist die Aktion?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wiederum, ich bin ein Familienmediziner. Ich bin immer aktionabel, aktionabel von diesen Tests. Und wenn die Aktion mich nicht berührt, dann sage ich meinen Residenzern nicht, diese Tests zu bestellen. Also zum Beispiel hatte ich einen älteren Patienten, der eine geringere GI-Bleidung hatte. Und mein Residenz war bereit, eine Kolonoskopie zu bestellen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ich fragte ihn, ob er die Patientin fragen würde, wenn sie etwas finden würde. Und er sagte, nein. Die Patientin sagte, ich möchte keine Surgery unter allen Bedingungen. Mein Leben ist bereits in einer schlechten Position. Meine Lebensqualität liegt unten, wo ich sein will. Ich würde keine Surgery machen. Wir müssen keine Kolonoskopie mehr machen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich denke, wir müssen zurück in diese Zeit kommen, in der wir verstehen, warum wir Tests bekommen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ich sage nicht, dass wir sie für Forschung nicht machen sollten. All diese Forschung, wir müssen bis zu dem Punkt kommen, wo wir jemanden individualisieren können, seine Diät, ihre Genetik, ihre CGM-Resultate. Aber wir sind einfach nicht da. Und dann die Leute, die das weaponisieren, weaponisieren das meistens für einen Art Profitmotiv.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich erinnere mich sogar an ein Dokument, wo sie kollegiöse Athleten unterschiedliche Art und Weise animal-based protein meals and they saw that there was some fat content in the blood after the meal. I'm like, well, that's supposed to happen. And you're painting it out as if they're somehow unhealthy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
So it's easy to twist the science when you're taking truth wrapped in a lie and exposing it to the major audiences. So I see that happening a lot. I'm actually curious, what was the reference to Glucose Goddess in your book?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und nachdem sie das tun, verkaufen sie dann eine Supplemente, um deinen Spik zu reduzieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Yeah, doing quality research is hard. It's demoralizing. Because oftentimes you're proving yourself wrong more than you're proving yourself right. In fact, when you're setting out to do good research, you're trying to prove that you're wrong. The null hypothesis. And most people aren't familiar with that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ich denke, der Grund, warum ich in die sozialen Medien gegangen bin und über die Gesundheit gesprochen habe, ist, weil ich Forscher gesehen habe, die so großartig waren, das Jahr in und Jahr aus zu machen. Wir sind nicht gut daran, das in der sozialen Medienwelt zu tun. Und ich habe gesagt, ich bin kein guter Forscher. Ich kann nicht Benchwork machen. Das ist nicht, wo meine Talente liegen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich erinnere mich an 2017. Ich hatte gerade meine Familie-Medizin-Residenz abgeschlossen und ich schrieb für den neuen Perspektiven-Blog für den AAFP. Und ich schrieb, dass die Absenz oder der Verlust von berufsbasierten Pflegekräften online eine Grätszone bilden wird, für die Missinformation flüchten kann.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Also lass mich ihre Arbeit nehmen und sie dann an den generalen Publikum bringen. Während andere Leute, die nicht so gut an Forschung sind, ihre eigene Forschung erstellen und es für diese predatory Marketingzwecke ausüben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, das wird schwierig für alle zu tun. Ich denke, das ist der Grund, warum man diese variablen Niveaus des Erfolgsschutzes sieht. Aber ich denke, auch für diejenigen, die es versucht haben und es nicht für sie ist, könnte das okay sein. Aber dann unterstützt eure Kollegen, die das tun. Weil ich einen Post von der CDC schaue und es hat zehn Likes drauf.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich frage mich, wo sind die Doktoren, die diesen Post unterstützen? Genau. Du musst also nicht da sein, um Content auf deiner eigenen Seite zu formen. Du könntest jemand anderes Content unterstützen, der dieses Werk macht. Und im Endeffekt, was die Algorithmen uns zurückgeben, ist, was wir lieben, was wir unterstützen. Und wenn das generelle Publikum nur das extremistische Content unterstützt,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Der Algorithmus wird einfach nur ein Bild davon sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
The second part of why I think it's beneficial to have more medical professionals who are evidence-based online is for Die öffentliche Gesundheit ist politisch geworden. Um die öffentliche Gesundheit zu beeinflussen, muss man eine Präsenz haben. Wenn ich z.B. auf medizinische Konferenzen gehe, erzähle ich eine Geschichte.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich war einmal auf einem Flugzeug über den Atlantik und ein junger Mann war in einer anaphylaktischen Schock. I asked for his EpiPen. He didn't have one. I asked the flight attendant for their kit. There wasn't one there. But I did see Epinephrin for the cardiac ACLS kit. And I said, okay, let's do some rough calculations. We MacGyvered it and we gave it to him, saved his life.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und nur drei Tage später hatten wir diese Explosion von Missinformationen an einem sehr kritischen Zeitpunkt. Also liebe ich den Fakt, dass du andere Ärzte ermutigst, das Gleiche zu tun. Weil ich denke, was auf Social Media passiert, ist, dass diese Informationen immer geteilt werden. Die Leute sagen es in einer gemeinsamen Sprache, wenn sie sich mit einem anderen in Lockerräumen verabschieden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
It was a great story. If I did that and didn't have social media, no one would have heard about it. I then told the story on YouTube. It got 10 million views. Senator Chuck Schumer calls me. We're able to do a press conference advocating for airlines to get epinephrine pens on board in order to curb these potential anaphylactic attacks from becoming much worse than they could be.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
And as a result, we got a net win from that. Also, öffentliche Anmerkung durch Social Media ist auch sehr wertvoll. Und ich denke, es ist nie mehr wertvoll als in der heutigen Zeit, in der wir uns mit RFK Junior im Helm der HHS befinden. Was ist deine Meinung darauf?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Aber wenn in dieser Lockerräume ein Arzt vorhanden ist, wenn ein medizinischer Experte, der die andere Seite dieser Equation teilen kann, meistens mit Beweis dahinter, dann wird das Menschen überzeugen, nicht zu den Missinformationen zu verurteilen. Aber es gibt nicht viele von uns auf Social Media.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Das ist die Ungewissheit, die ich habe. Wenn du all diese Leute denkst, wirst du unnötig verletzt. Es ist traurig. Und ich freue mich, dass du in diesem Szenario Balls und Schrecken nimmst, wo du sagst, was die AfD von chronischen Krankheiten empfiehlt, ist gut, und was er von Vakzinen sagt, ist schlecht. I used to be that way too, especially before he came in to HHS as acting secretary.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
But now I've lost that. I've become a bit more pessimistic and a bit more alarmist than I usually am. Because the whole notion of Make America Healthy Again, of the idea that we need to focus on chronic health more so than infectious disease, all these premises that he talked about, getting chemicals out of our children's foods and out of our water systems...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
All of that seem to be just talking points.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und mit Miss- und Verschwörungstheorien. Und es ist wirklich traurig, Mike. Ja, die Anzahl der Missinformationen, die geteilt werden, ist wild, weil es auf großen Outlets passiert. Und ich weiß nicht, wie es erlaubt werden kann. Er wird sagen, die MMR-Vakzine hat eine Immunität von 4,5 Prozent, was einfach völlig falsch ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
And it's just fully made up.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Rotavirus vaccine has killed more people than it saved. Just... Er hat Statistiken gemacht. Und dann, vergessen wir die infektiöse Seite. Du würdest denken, dass er sich zumindest auf den Food-Aspekt konzentrieren würde. Und sein Fokus auf den Food-Aspekt ist es, einen Öl zu entfernen und ihn mit Beef Talon zu verändern.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Nein, das Beef Talon ist komplett... Und er sitzt an einem Fast-Food-Burger-Grund und feiert, dass es Beef ist. Es spielt wie eine S&L-Parodie. Es spielt. Und irgendwie merken die Leute nicht, dass das passiert. In der Tat, ich habe eine Debatte gegen 20 Antivax-Hesitanten, wo ich von ihnen verbrannt war. Und sie hatten alle fünf Minuten, um mit mir zu sprechen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wir haben das für drei Stunden gemacht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
And one of the individuals said to me something I won't forget. He said, now that, well, it was right before RFK actually was confirmed. And he said, now, if RFK is to be confirmed as HHS secretary, will he then be the expert and you're the one sharing misinformation? I said, whoa, the take on that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
No, and my answer was, and I'm curious what you think of that answer, science doesn't happen by an individual expert. It happens by consensus. And the consensus groups that have been putting in this work, the WHO, Gavi for the Vaccine Alliance, these groups have been doing it for decades. They're the ones who are leading the consensus-driven statements, not RFK Jr.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
or one person, whoever is the head of HHS.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Yeah, the hypocrisy I want to highlight for the audience is WHO and CDC had missteps. I talked about them quite often on this channel. I actually interviewed Dr. Fauci a couple of times on the channel and spoke about some of the errors to him. We call those errors. We call them mistakes of judgment.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
We call them mistakes of communication, mistakes of science, whatever they were in each individual situation. Aber hey, warum gehört RFK Jr. nicht zu seinen Fehler? Wo sind diese Fehler, die Daten herstellen, die Statements herstellen, dass HIV Aids nicht verursacht? Wie in der Welt können wir jemanden am Helm einer Gesundheitsagentur haben, der diese Vorstellung mit keinem Beweis hat?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich erinnere mich auch an diese Impfungssitzung. Es gab einen pädiatrischen Onkologen, der wachsend war. Und sie sagte zu mir, warum denkst du nicht, dass RFK nicht am Helm ist, wenn du mit einigen der Dinge, die er spricht, verabschiedest, wie zum Beispiel die Verschmutzung von Chemikalien oder solche Sachen aus unserem System? Und ich sagte, naja, was ist das?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Sie haben diese Teilung tatsächlich ausgedruckt. Also das ist ein Fun Fact für die Publikation auch. Und sie sagte, warum lässt du ihn nicht HHS-Sechretär sein? Ich stimme nicht mit allem, was mein Mann tut, und ich habe entschieden, mein Leben mit ihm zu verbringen. Ich sagte, großartiges Beispiel.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich erinnere mich an meine Trainingsjahre, es wurde als unprofessionell genannt, wenn man auf Social Media oder vielleicht Televisionsmedizin arbeitete. Hattest du jemals solche Schwierigkeiten?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Für mich ist das Äquivalent für das, was ich für den HHS-Präsidenten will, wissenschaftliche Räger. Und wenn dein Mann seine Glauben zerstört hat, würdest du mit deinem Mann sein? Sie sagte nein. Sie sagte, wenn der HHS-Präsident wissenschaftliche Räger zerstört hat, wieder und wieder und wieder und wieder, ich will sie nicht als HHS-Führer haben, auch wenn sie manchmal eine gute Idee haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Also habe ich gedacht, das war eine gute Antwort.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Weil es eine PR-Strategie geworden ist. Wenn du nur sehr sicher bist, dass es irgendwann etwas anderes wird.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Es ist unglaublich. Ja. Ja. Es ist wirklich eine schlechte Situation in diesem Bereich. Wie beeinflusst die Ausgaben der NIH, wahrscheinlich weniger so die USAID, aber wie beeinflusst die Ausgaben dieser großen Forschungsorganisationen unsere Wissenswürdigkeit und Longevität?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ich möchte den Publikum beobachten, Research we should be doing, not you should be taking. Because there are people who have created these hormone clinics where they're just slinging hormones left and right.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Not cutting research for it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Yeah, I just had a PhD Kevin Klatt from UC Berkeley talking about how these cuts are impacting metabolic kitchens where research is being done on ultra-processed food. The things that he's talking about, there is no plan to actually find out this research that he claims to find. Like the idea that he's going to create an autism study that he will find an answer. I remember before...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Well, no, before he got put into the position he is now, he actually said that he'd get it in two months, then he pushed it to September, and now it's 2026. Yeah, but only under pressure.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und das ist eine Administration, die offensichtlich wissenschaftliche Freiheit wert ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich sehe es kaum eye to eye mit einem anderen Gästen über die Bedeutung von sozialen Medien und Gesundheitsschutz. Ich verstehe die Vorstellung, woher der Unprofessionellismus herkommt. Denn wenn man sich die medizinische Medien vor 20 Jahren anschaut und was die großen Spieler auf der TV waren, waren es Menschen, die Snake Oil, Schmerzenheilungen, Fettverlustremedien,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich weiß nicht, wie ich das beantworten kann. Aber ich weiß, dass die NIH, die HHS, sie müssen einen besseren Job bei der Erhöhung von Forschern, der Erhöhung von Dollar für Forschung machen. Nur die Verständnis, wie viel Geld es kostet, eine zweijährige kontrollierte Metabolik-Studie zu erledigen, ist unglaublich. Um es richtig zu machen, nicht nur, um das Ergebnis zu bekommen, das du willst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Denn es ist leicht, das Ergebnis zu bekommen, das du willst, wenn du die Wissenschaft verletzt willst und nicht nach der Wahrheit. Also sehr problematisch. Ich bin interessiert, wie lange bis unser medizinisches Verständnis anfängt, RFK zu fragen, um zu resignieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich habe eigentlich Freunde in Positionen von C-Suite-Exekten aus großen Organisationen. Und sie haben meine Videos gesehen, die über ihre RFK-Junior-Situation sprechen. Und sie sagen, dass sie vocal sein wollen, aber ihre Organisation lässt sie nicht, weil viele der Gründe, die sie bekommen, föderal gefundet sind.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und sie sind besorgt, dass sie diese Gründe verlieren, so wie du sagst, die Angst vor Retribution ist überall auf der Bord.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Auch in privaten Institutionen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Longevity-Kliniken verkaufen 2.000-Dollar-Lifesaving-Full-Body-MRIs. TikTok-Influencers hauen Glucose-Monitore an Menschen ohne Diabetes. Und bestsellende Autoren drücken Supplemente auf, um ihre Leben zu verlängern. All das mit null echten Beweisen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
He was worried about the same retribution, about getting funding against his campaign.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Das war nicht beziehungsgemäß. Und als Ergebnis dachten sie, wenn du in diese Felder gehst, ist das im Endeffekt der einzige Weg nach vorne. Aber ich denke, mit deinem Arbeit, hast du sicherlich gezeigt, dass es einen Weg gibt, den Publikum von einem beziehungsgemäßem Standpunkt aus zu engagieren. Du musst es nicht mit schrecklichen Voraussetzungen oder Negativität anfassen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja. Was interessant ist, The RFK administration probably gets one thing wrong the most, and it's not HIV, it's not vaccines. They talk about this chronic health epidemic that we're experiencing. That is true. We're more obese than we've ever been. We have higher rates of diabetes, heart disease, etc.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
But they believe that is due to some sort of foreign entity, as opposed to just overeating poor quality foods. And they think they can somehow stop that Without a plan. It's very hard to change someone's behavior. It's very hard to change private organizations' marketing behavior. In New York we tried limiting the size of big sodas, and that got crushed.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Michelle Obama tried to do the same on a major scale. Crushed. And yet they're talking about it as if it's easy to change human behavior without ever actually succeeding in changing human behavior. I think that's where they get things wrong the most, especially when it comes to the chronic health front.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und RMK Jr. ist ein Umweltverbraucher. Wenn du nach etwas gehen willst,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Es gibt einen Weg, die Wahrheit zu erzählen, und es gibt einen Appetit dafür. Ist das wahr?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Es erinnert mich an die Analyse, wie wir vorhin gesagt haben, wenn man in einem niedrigen sozioökonomischen Raum ist, bekommt man schlechte Gesundheitserhöhungen. In einem hohen ökonomischen Raum könnte man auch schlechte Erhöhungen bekommen. Amerika ist so personifiziert.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wir sind der perfekte Beispiel. Wir spenden viel Geld und bekommen keine guten Ergebnisse. Ich denke, das ist ein guter Beispiel dafür. And I also want the listeners and viewers to realize that this isn't, it's political in the sense that it's public health focused, but it's apolitical in that it's not about Dems or Republicans or Moderates, because RFK Jr. was a Democrat not too long ago.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Er ist jetzt Teil einer republikanischen Regierung. Im Jahr 2020, als ich an Trumps erste Termin zur Regierung kam, haben sie Dr. Fauci zu diesem Podcast eingeladen. Wir haben mit ihm gearbeitet. Als Biden dann ins Büro kam, haben wir mit seiner Regierung gearbeitet, um Dr. Fauci und den Arzt anzunehmen. Wir arbeiten mit jedem politischen Partei.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Es geht nur darum, die wissenschaftliche Wahrheit zu erzählen und versuchen, das Beste zu tun, was wir haben. So this is not a political attack in that sense, strictly public health focused.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Well, we also have to remember that the COVID vaccine, which for the triumph that it was, is largely creating a lot of divisiveness and distrust in the general public, especially on the conservative side of things. And again, Der Anti-Vakzinen-Movement begann an der liberalen Kalifornien-Granola-Seite. Und jetzt ist es in den Konservativen gestiegen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Also wieder einmal zeigt man die apolitische Natur. Aber Donald Trump nannte es seine Impfung. Und die Konservativen hassen die Impfung. Es ist also sehr interessant, wie die Seiten zurück und zurück fliegen, abhängig davon, was in einem bestimmten Zeitpunkt an der Stelle vorhanden ist. Absolutely. I wanted to talk about and shift the conversation a bit to AI.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
In your book in 2019, Deep Medicine, you said how AI would revolutionize the doctor-patient relationship. It's 2025. My relationship with my patients has not been revolutionized. We have Chat-GPT-Responsen, Halluzinationen in Discharge-Instruktionen und ich bekomme wirklich schlechte Qualitätsnoten, wenn ich versuche, die AI-Scribes für meine Patientenbegegnungen zu benutzen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Bin ich prämaturiert und denke, dass das jetzt passiert ist, oder ist das ein Fehler auf der Seite der AI?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich sehe, und ich bin gespannt, was deine Gefühle sind, auf eine Meinung, die ich in den letzten zehn Jahren wahrscheinlich gehalten habe. Ich habe dieses feste Glauben, dass das Gesundheitswesen auf zwei Seiten schlecht ist. Einerseits auf der Rückseite des niedrigen Sozioökonomischen Status. Menschen können gutes Gesundheitswesen bekommen, weil sie keine Versicherung haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Für die Suche nach einer kalzifizierten Fläche?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Was denkst du, die Zeitung für das ist?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Sie sind unversichert, können nicht für ihre Medikamente bezahlt werden. But also on the flip side, for the VIPs of the world, who think they can buy good healthcare, they can buy shortcuts, they can demand antibiotics when they have a viral infection, they can demand propofol to go to sleep and end up having a terrible instance, like with Michael Jackson.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Aber manchmal für das Gute der Medizin.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Weil es einfacher ist, zu flippen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich meine, die Veränderung der Incentivstruktur für die Primärwohnung und solche Dinge, denke ich, wird auch einen Einfluss haben. Denn gerade ist die Primärwohnung nicht so gefeiert, wie es sein sollte, in Bezug auf die Erstellung einer Foundation für die Gesundheit. A lot of young folks, especially in the urban areas, are relying for urgent care centers to provide their primary care.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
And there's no way you're getting a doctor-patient relationship.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Do you see that happening in the world as well? And was that part of your impetus for talking about aging?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich bin interessiert, wie das genere Publikum in Bezug auf die Information von AI landen wird. Und ich gebe Ihnen einen speziellen Beispiel, den ich am selben Zeitpunkt lustig und traurig finde.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Elon Musk, Vorsitzender von Doge, ähm, oder nicht Vorsitzender von Doge, ich kann es nicht mehr aufmerksam halten, ähm, ist RFK-Junior in irgendeinem Sinne von Fragen, seiner medizinischen Theorien, etc. auf seiner Plattform X anzupassen. I asked Grock, which is the AI of X, what percentage of health claims that RFK Jr. makes are factually inaccurate? And it said greater than 50%.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Warum ist es nicht so, dass jemand, der ein Industrieleiter ist, Elon Musk, seine eigene KI-Systeme fragt, über die faktische Aufmerksamkeit der Person, die das Gesundheitssystem der Nation entscheidet?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Aber du hast absolut recht. Warum? Also, wenn Leute, wenn er nicht zu dem hört, auf so einer großen Ebene, richtig? Ja. Is he going to listen to it about his cholesterol score? It seems pretty unlikely, doesn't it? Yes, that's why I don't know how will AI interface with the general public when it comes to the virtual health coach stuff.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, um Leute mit einigen bemerkenswerten Punkten zu lassen, wenn sie Super-Ager sein wollen, was können sie tun?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, es ist sehr spannend und ich bin froh, dass du zeigst, dass es hier eine Dualität gibt, nicht eine falsche Dichotomie. Es ist nicht nur Lebensstil oder Medikament. Es ist Lebensstil für jeden und für die, die Vorteile haben, hohe Risiken, die eine zusätzliche Länge brauchen. Medikament ist definitiv eine Option. Und all diese...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
die wir von technologischer Sicht haben, wird uns helfen, bessere Risiken zu stratifizieren. Wer ist auf hohem Risiko? Wer würde von früheren Interventionen profitieren? So dass wir keine Herzinfarkte behandeln müssen. Wir können diese Herzinfarkte verhindern. Und ich denke, das ist sehr wertvoll.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und wir haben es nur... Ist das, weil es so immer veränderungsfähig ist in Bezug auf das Umgebung?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
And they work against shingles too, to the 290 plus percent.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich denke, es verändert sich. Ich denke, die Notion von Hygiene-Hypothesis bedeutet etwas anderes für meine Generation. Denn Hygiene-Hypothesis war, dass du dein Immunsystem nicht mit non-pathologischen Mikroben ausüben kannst, und dementsprechend dein Immunsystem vielleicht überreakt. Aber ich denke an das in Bezug auf Übungen. Wenn du hygienisch bist, dann übst du nicht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und wenn du nicht übst, dann schaffst du keine Inflammation. Du ermutigst dein Immunsystem nicht. Denn Inflammation während des Übungsdrucks wird von deinem Immunsystem moduliert. Ich denke also, dass das Immunsystem so einen größeren Rolle spielt als nur die typische Befreiung von Bakterien oder Virus oder Fungi. In so vielen Variablen, ob es Übungen ist, Krankheitsrisiken, Körperschaft, etc.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Yeah, boosting the immune system.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Um zu beobachten, was die Daten tatsächlich zeigen, bin ich bei Dr. Eric Topold, einem weltbekannten Kardiologen, Forscher und Founder des Scripps Research Translational Institutes. He is the author of the new book Super Agers, which takes an evidence-based look at the science behind living longer. It's not bells and whistles. This is the real science that will help you age gracefully.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Das ist wahr. Das ist wahr. Ich möchte an einem Punkt enden, mit dem ich viel Frustration in meiner Praxis erlebe. Und als Kardiologe hast du wahrscheinlich eine sehr starke Stimme darauf. Junge Leute, 30 Jahre alt, kommen in mein Büro und sagen in ihrem Apple Watch Ding, dass sie fünf Sekunden von Afib hatten. Ich weiß, was mit Afib zu tun ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und jemand, der symptomatisch ist, der Risikofaktoren hat, basierend auf ihren kleinen Kalkulationen, die wir machen. Was sollen wir dem genauen Publikum sagen, mit all diesen Trackern, die dabei sind, wo wir noch keine definitiven Daten haben, was zu tun ist?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Right, yeah. I've had companies come to me asking to do a sponsorship on the YouTube channel, and they have a new product that is sensing atrial fibrillation in the general population, and they said this is a great breakthrough.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
But every piece of literature that I've looked at to see if screening the general population for atrial fibrillation was valuable, it was found either insufficient or perhaps not valuable. What's your take on screening the general population for AFib?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wenn diese Leute... Aber das ist kein Screening mehr, das ist bereits targetiert.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich meine, wer hätte es erwartet, richtig? Denkst du über Alkoholverbrauch?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und Sie haben von diesen Individuen eine Rückmischung gesehen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ich habe keine Daten davon gesehen, das ist cool. Aber ja, ich konnte die Sponsoren nicht nehmen, weil ich die Botschaft nicht rausgeben konnte, dass ein 30-Jähriger sich für AFib screenen muss. Das ist die Frage. Wenn sie mich markieren wollen, wollen sie nicht, dass ich sage, hey, das ist nur für diesen spezifischen Subgruppen, dann gehe ich in ihre Sales.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Also würde ich dem Publikum sagen, jeder sollte das nehmen. Und ich glaube nicht, dass das...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, genau. Ich glaube, das ist das, was die Zukunft für uns hält. Balance, ehrlich zu sein, transparent zu sein und von unseren Fehler zu lernen, wie wir weitergehen. Ja, ich konnte mehr nicht mehr akzeptieren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
I actually had the CEO of Pernuvo, Andrew Lacey, sitting right across from me a couple of months ago. And I was very strict and honest about the fact that there is no evidence for benefit. And he said, well, not yet. And I don't want to wait 20 years to see the data. And I'm like, well, what if the data shows that there's harm?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, es ist sehr erfreulich. Danke für Ihre Zeit. Dr. Topol, die nächste Zeit, wenn Sie über ein Thema in diesem Raum sprechen wollen, sind wir froh, Sie wieder aufzunehmen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wo würdest du den Publikum folgen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Das ist das, was AI großartig ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ja, ich erinnere mich noch daran, dass du deine Arbeit über Cardiac-Cath-Labs über die Stenten der Menschen liest. Und es erinnert mich, dass es so fühlt, als ob Longevity-Kliniken jetzt die modernen Cat-Labs sind.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Cool. Vielen Dank für Ihre Zeit, Dr. Topol.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Ein großer Dank an Dr. Topol für seine Reise nach New York für dieses Interview und für seine ständige Einstellung ihres Rekords, wenn es um Gesundheitsmissinformationen auf Social Media geht. Autoritären Stimmen wie seine sind wichtiger als jemals.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Und ich bin wirklich froh, dass er heute ermittelt hat, dass viele der Wissenschaften, die wir in Longevity diskutieren, für zukünftige Forschung nicht unbedingt implementiert werden. Heute. Er war auch ziemlich kritisch von Brian Johnson. who is attempting to be the oldest living person of all time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
I actually interviewed Brian on this show, so scroll back to find that episode and see how he reacted to my criticisms. It got a little tense, so I think it's a fun listen. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't hesitate to give us five stars and leave a comment or review, as it's one of the best ways to help new listeners to find the show. And as always, stay happy and healthy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Because I believe one of your tweets recently, you wrote that you believe that there is more harm to getting one of these preventive whole body MRI scans. Is that true?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Wie fühlst du dich bei diesen Longevity-Experten, die diese Stand-Up-MRIs, Full-Body-MRIs, promoten, wenn du in der Vergangenheit vielleicht einige dieser Individuen geprägt hast? Ich weiß, dass Peter Attia jemand war, dessen Arbeit du erwartet hast. Was ist dein Ansatz auf ihn, die Themen wie die MRI, Rapamycin usw. zu diskutieren?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
In this episode, we'll discuss aging, the hucksters capitalizing on your fear of aging, as well as what innovations we can expect to see from AI within our lifetimes. Without further ado, please welcome Dr. Eric Topol to the Checkup Podcast. Dr. Topol, I've been following your work for a long time across social media.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
The Scam Behind "Longevity Experts" | Dr. Eric Topol
Aber wir müssen auch darauf achten.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Do You Need A Full Body MRI Scan? | Prenuvo CEO
Very simple. Train your sleep and become a morning person. With the Galaxy Watch 7 or the Galaxy Ring and the Samsung Health app.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Do You Need A Full Body MRI Scan? | Prenuvo CEO
I didn't exercise enough.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
That the risk stays elevated. That you can't really reverse the risk. I think that's the thought process. Okay, but the diabetes itself is reversed. I would say it's controllable, but the risk is always ever present.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And also like why pre-diabetic range is so interesting. It's the range that is considered the time where you can reverse it and completely stop the progression into type 2 diabetes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And honestly, these will change as time goes on, as we get more data.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Yeah, I think it's like a... In science, we get very caught up in the nuance of vocabulary. And we sometimes put too much emphasis on it because in a condition, whether it's reversible, remission, curable, at the end of the day, what's the practical implication? We don't want to demotivate patients.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So keep them as motivated as possible and say, there are factors that are under your control that are valuable. Which at the same time, you want to be careful because it's easy to get into then a victim blaming situation where it's this diabetes is your fault and that could also be demotivating. So there's a range in barometer.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
More pandemic than epidemic at this point. I've heard your very strong interest in the topic, but you're a nephrologist, which is a kidney specialist and not necessarily the specialty that usually talks about obesity. How did you find that to be a topic that you were so passionate about?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
What regimen did you choose?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So the summary of it would be that you started seeing this uptick as a result of the huge spike in people gaining weight, being overweight, obese, then developing diabetes, then developing kidney disease. And instead of just treating the condition, you started thinking more preventively. How can we get ahead of this? Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And the dietary aspect, the weight loss diet, the weight loss aspect is probably the most efficacious way of doing it, which we see now and we're talking about more so these days. Why did you choose fasting specifically as your approach to helping people lose weight as opposed to the low carbohydrate diet, caloric restriction, keto? There's all sorts of avenues by which people try and lose weight.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Why do you think people were against fasting?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
You mean the general public, academics, doctors?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And you believe that academics and doctors never heard of fasting before this time period?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I mean, I hate to harp on extremes. I'm just going to point out the devil's advocate of it is that there's a group of people who believe that it can fuel an eating disorder where they say starting to think in this way of withholding food can create perhaps an unhealthy relationship. I don't think that's the general case for most people.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And I also think it's unfair to take away a strategy from a great sum of people because there are people who can be harmed by it. Because just the topic of talking about weight loss can be unhealthy for one individual who perhaps has disordered eating versus there's still value in talking about weight loss for those who are morbidly obese or obese, what have you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Of course, you're not going to burn it off right away.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It's so interesting. I never came across, because I also talked about intermittent fasting at some point when we started the YouTube channel. I never got feedback that intermittent fasting was terrible. The only feedback that I got, which I think is very accurate, I'm curious if you agree, that the reason why intermittent fasting works is
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
is that it's another way of lowering calories consumed, because you're eating in a smaller time window.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But the insulin does go up.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So protein- Well, yeah, it'll spike less.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And there's also the thermic cost of breaking down the proteins, which will decrease the amount of calories absorbed, therefore lower the insulin spike.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But I think the people who talk about calories in and calories out, I mean, I'm one of those people. I don't think we equate each calorie being identical. I think we just kind of zoom out and look at it more practically and holistically and say, if you look at the studies that have changed the amount of carbohydrates one group consumed in literally in human trials and metabolic wards,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
and said, if you feed less carbohydrates to one group of people, more proteins and fats to another group, or swapped it the other way around, you see the same weight loss depending on the amount of caloric intake they have. The one difference that I could see that happens is, from an insulin standpoint, is perhaps behavioral change, because there could be a craving for
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
effect that happens that can create a person wanting to eat more often or snack more often or consume less healthy choices. But to say that the fact that a certain calorie, depending on which macronutrient it comes from, will impact the amount of weight loss hasn't really been borne out by evidence.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, the failures in a lot of these studies is that keeping weight offs with diet and exercise is very hard, right? And the reasons for that, I don't think most people would say is because of insulin.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And so I really started... Wait, are you saying by controlling sugar levels, blood sugar levels, you weren't controlling mortality and morbidity rates?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, that's not true because as they lose weight, they will have a lower caloric requirement.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Today we're joined by Dr. Jason Fung, a leading nephrologist and author of the best-selling book, The Obesity Code. Dr. Fung has taken the social media world by storm, igniting passionate discussion surrounding calories and their value when it comes to weight loss. His belief is that insulin and other hormones are more impactful than calories when it comes to weight management.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And it was at 300 calories less than they were originally eating?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But either way, it's sort of- I guess to simplify the question is if you take someone who should be consuming, let's say, 2,000 calories, if they cut out 300 calories, no matter what insulinogenic food or on the opposite end, a low glycemic index food that they eat, they will lose weight.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I'm not saying in that study. I'm saying if you calculate for a group of individuals what they're supposed to consume to keep their base metabolic weight or their base weight, let's say it's 2,000 calories, and you cut it down to 1,700, that group of people will lose weight or you disagree with that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, behaviorally. Not because metabolically something's happening.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Sure, the metabolic rate goes down five to 15% and usually is tied to how much weight also people are losing. So it's a pretty small factor.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Right, that's what makes it hard, but it doesn't mean that's a window you can't overcome. Because there's at some point where you, like if I cut down to a thousand calories, my body's not gonna cut down to a thousand calories.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But energy wise, how do you gain weight or not lose weight when you're under consuming that many calories? Because the amount of calories out is not just your basal metabolic rate. That's important hugely, but it's also your NEAT, your exercise, the thermogenic effect of food. There's so many variables there that are not being accounted for besides the metabolic rate.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, the biggest loser studies, even at the most, they had someone's basal metabolic rate in extreme form where they were on extreme starvation-esque diets, extreme exercise. I think the highest that they had someone come down was 499 calories. And that's the most extreme case in the Biggest Loser Study. In the metabolic?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, because if you factor in how many other things cause caloric burn throughout the day, the numbers are quite small. Even when we say like if you overeat, the body can regulate by burning more calories, like if you have a bigger meal, that's a pretty small margin.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Because while the human body does try and self-regulate, it does a way better job at self-regulating by storing than it does by burning. Do you agree with that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
You're saying that we overeat so many calories but only put on a certain amount of weight?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I mean, a big part of that is because again, as they gain weight, their basal metabolic rate goes up because they have more weight that they need to maintain. And as you store fat, you're also storing more lean muscle tissue so that you are burning more calories by being heavier, which is a concern of why if everyone gets on GLP-1 medications, are we gonna find a hugely sarcopenic population?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Because they were overweight and having decent amount of muscle because they were overweight. But then once they lose the body fat, that they actually get exposed for not having enough muscle. So I think that is probably the higher likelihood of why people don't gain as much weight as they do per year, despite the caloric intake.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
For sure, yeah, I think the idea that certain macronutrients of food play a role in behavior and how the body behaves I don't think is disagreed upon by people in the nutrition space.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think it's widely, in fact, celebrated to incorporate lean cuts of protein, that the villainization of fat was kind of a really big mistake that we made because there's actually very healthy fats that can contribute to a healthy metabolic profile, that can contribute to weight loss, that can contribute to satiety, and that refined carbohydrates
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
is probably the main reason why our American standard diet is so terrible. We frequently, especially on podcasts, get into the situation of nitpicking a specific chemical, saying, oh, high fructose corn syrup, that's the thing. If we only replace it with cane sugar, we'll fix all our problems. No, we're not.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Yeah, exactly. In those situations, I think we're getting more into the headlines as opposed to the practical implications. So I don't think most people would disagree on that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think everyone... I think it's just a situation of talking about, again, the nomenclature, the words of it all. Because if you really look at it, if you, and again, I think you'll agree with this. For me, it's very obvious if I consume 4,000 calories, I'll gain weight. If I eat 4,000 calories of Oreos or 4,000 calories of beef, I'm gaining weight, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And I think like that's the starting point we have to agree on before we move on.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So we know a lot about- I mean, if that's the case, why are we just exponentially going up with our obesity?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
That's so weird because right now, my guidance from the major organizations, the American Academy of Family Physicians,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, I mean, it's hard to relate us to other species because if you're hunting for your food and you're obese and you can't run to catch your meal, you're no longer gonna be fat. So that's a self-fixing problem there. But I think- You might get caught.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But anyway- But the point I wanna point out with this whole situation, because I think I agree with you in totality when it comes to the hyper-processing of food with how non-satiating it is. And really those are hormonal issues, the non-satiating. The fact that it causes you to overeat, the cravings of it all.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But the issue that I feel like we're not talking about when we're discussing that is how those hormones, either as you mentioned with leptin resistance, become resistant, dysfunctional, which then throws our mechanism by which you described in that prison experiment completely off. Because the reason in my-
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
expert opinion why the prisoners were able to lose the weight is because they didn't yet develop a sort of resistance to those hunger hormones. Because it was a short-term weight loss, a weight gain and weight loss.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
ADA, AHA is controlling the hemoglobin A1C or the fasting glucose to arrange, well, not necessarily solve all the problems, because there's usually comorbidities happening at the same time, as you mentioned, high blood pressure, usually some lifestyle issues related to either obesity, poor sleep, all those factors.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But when you have a population like we are, that is already obese by the majority, you're overweight and obese by the majority, you're getting into a situation where A, you're having resistance of those hormones. So I think it's almost less valuable to focus on the hormones.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And second, when you're at a point of obesity, even once you lose weight, the fact that the presence of those fat cells were there at one point creates an easier environment to refill those fat cells and therefore regain the weight.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I just feel like if you're trying to create a modifiable factor for someone, in the same way that you talk about time-restricted eating or intermittent fasting as being a practical solution for people because it's simple, for some people, calories is much more simple to think about and actionable than it is to think about your insulin.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It's way easier to say, I'm gonna get into a caloric deficit and decrease the amount of calories I'm consuming, weigh myself, average it over seven days, see how my body weight is behaving. And if it's not enough, lower it some more, perhaps increase my energy expenditure than it is to think about all these hormonal processes, which are much harder to control in some ways.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But controlling the blood sugar does yield better outcomes, even in the sense of you're preventing patients from ending up in DKA,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But isn't that a valuable educational, like I never really recommend calorie counting per se for most people because long-term at least. Because I think long-term it can be overwhelming and something that most people probably won't stick to.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But I think for a period of two weeks, four weeks to get a sense of, usually when I order a fistful of chicken or a fistful of steak, when I get it from the butcher shop, this is how much calories it has on average. And that's a valuable education point, at least that I've seen with my patients who are empowered to make that change. And not every patient will be.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I don't know what, maybe they were making a point of like the fact that calorically it's the same thing.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think what ends up happening by people who may disagree with you is, I don't think they're disagreeing with you on that message. I think they... The people who are disagreeing also agree that ultra processed foods are the problem. The fact that they're non satiating, we are drastically under consuming fiber as a country. We're not eating enough whole foods.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think they'll all agree with the sentiment behind that. I just think that they are more purist in their, of storage of calories, of insulin behavior. And when they're more pure in that regard, when you say insulin is fattening and it is what is driving the factor, is the driving factor in weight gain, it's not exactly true if we're holding it to the verbatim definition.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Because if I take someone who's consuming a thousand calories only and I give them extra insulin, that person's not gonna be gaining weight.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And you're fighting those cravings.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But insulin spikes and then drops down two to three hours later. So you will be able to access it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I don't think I've ever said that or my institution ever taught that, but-
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So 1500- And high is also kind of a weird statement because- eating any food that has some sort of caloric intake will create a spike in insulin. High, I mean, a beef steak will spike your insulin pretty high.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But I'm saying the insulin spike is pretty high. It can be, yeah. So I guess it depends how much you're eating every those two hours.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But I just don't know how you're keeping it high at a 1500 calorie diet every two, three hours. That seems like impossible.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
That's going to be more than 1500 calories. Like the math doesn't add up in that experiment.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Yeah. Lower than if you were eating the 2000, which, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Which means you're either eating less of the food or less often.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So then you'll have less insulin spike, whether you're measuring the amplitude of the spike or the frequency of the spikes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And you're saying you won't lose weight?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
We just talked about that study with The Biggest Loser, where in the most extreme starvation diet, with the most extreme energy expenditure, they were cutting it by 500. And in this situation, we're dropping it that aggressively, the basal metabolic rate?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
That's so aggressive. The basal metabolic rate, you've seen studies drop by 1,000?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
His basal metabolic rate was 3,800 or his total expenditure?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
which is not just the basal metabolic rate. So that's energy that he fidgets, energy moving around. So are you saying in that situation where they're cutting from 2000 calories and they're eating only 1500, their entire out will drop to 1500 through behavior change as well?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
If you're eating 1500 and once you clear your, uh, storage of sugars in your body from your liver, from your muscle, you will start breaking down fat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
There's a dysregulation of it for sure, but you still can, otherwise people would die in those scenarios if you can't get any energy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But then your insulin spike will be higher because you're going to be consuming higher caloric load when you do eat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So is your theory or I guess hypothesis that if you have less insulin spikes in general, that is a healthier state than if you had more insulin spikes, irrespective of calories?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, it doesn't always happen. If they're not eating enough calories, there's not enough energy to store.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Controlled? This was- Meaning the calories were controlled?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So people were just self-reporting how much they're consuming.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, that's not, they're not equivalent in that scenario.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But they're also- It's like cutting someone's calories by a thousand and saying, look how much better it is.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, I don't know what they were... consuming before then to get started in that study?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I'm just curious, like in the metabolic wards of these scenarios where they're eating foods that are potentially hyperinsulamic, that they produce more insulin with the foods that they're eating. In a metabolic ward, they gain or lose the same amount of weight strictly depending on calories.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Today, I wanted to directly discuss some of these hotly contested statements and find some common ground in this highly complex and often heated nutrition space. Turns out, it's way more complicated than I thought. So for the very first time, I'm trying a new truth-seeking approach where upon a significant point of disagreement during the conversation, you will hear this sound.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
How do you take that randomized control data from meta-analysis and say that insulin is more important where we have people that have high insulin with their high carbohydrate diet versus a low carbohydrate diet. And if the calories are maintained, the weight doesn't change. How do you make sense of that in your mind?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Agreed, but that's not what you're saying when you're saying that insulin is more important than calories.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think no one argues that. I think that the people who have disagreed with you won't argue any of those points. Because I'm trying to just take their standpoint on this and also mine as a family doctor. And I don't think that there's much disagreement here on a practical level.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, you could see as a purist, you could see why they're saying it. Because if you see that in a metabolic ward, whether you're consuming carbs, proteins, fats, ultimately, if you control the calories, you control the weight. And that's been proven over so many randomized controlled studies. But then you have to go into the real world.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
You know, like I have the studies that show me how well condoms work in terms of contraception. And then I have real world numbers, which are lower, still effective.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
but lower because people don't use them right or they say they use them and they lied, what have you. So there's the real world implications. So I think like calories in, calories out in the research clinical world, metabolic world, that's key, that's what works. And then you have the real world and it gets a little bit more muddled and nuanced.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
This is so strange because my practical experience is that if I have a patient with the hemoglobin A1C of 8 or 9 and I treat them, in most cases in type 2 diabetes, I'm not jumping to insulin unless their hemoglobin A1C is above 10 or they're very poorly controlled. So I'm treating them with other medications.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, because the numbers are not the same.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And also like- The idea why I think it's so valuable to talk about the calories in, calories out, is that A, there's an educational component to it. You could learn a little bit more about the foods that you're eating and how difficult it is from an energy expenditure standpoint to burn off those foods. Because some people are like, oh, I'll eat a Snickers bar and I'll go for a walk.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It's like, do you know how long you have to walk to burn off a Snickers bar? And it's a good education point. But like the example that you're creating of 100 units of insulin or lowering by 200 calories, one is very doable, lowering by 200 calories. Giving 100 units of insulin is not just impractical, it's not really gonna happen in the majority of cases. So that's why like-
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I don't know what to do with that information, nor is it comparable.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Of course. You can eat toilet paper and lose weight. That's not what's recommended.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It's the same way that people say eating vegans healthier and then they eat impossible burgers, which are junk food in the vegan sense.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
If you're going to be strict with it and treat yourself like you're in a metabolic ward, that's true.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Right now, obviously, GLP-1 medications are very popular, but starting even with the basics of a metformin, sulfonylurea, with all the risks that can come with that, and they do better.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Yeah. I think on a practical level, because you're going to not be full, you're going to reach for cravings. All those things are absolutely. And then there's the whole world that is unexplored of the microbiome and what impacts the ultra processed foods have on that and how that impacts your cravings. Cause we've seen,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
initial ideas of how those cravings can be impacted by the signaling of that microbiome and how those change. We don't understand it yet. And people are peddling a little bit too much of a supplements in this space from my taste.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Mental health plays a role in this.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think you're- probably getting into these semantics arguments with people who are really focused in on the mechanisms at play, more so on the practical implications. Because I think you largely agree. So I'm glad that actually we're having this conversation and bringing it to light.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Because what ends up happening is if you go on a podcast with a non-medical individual, like Diary of a CEO, and they clickbait the title and the intro, it doesn't do you any favors in the medical community because it then looks like you're saying something inaccurate.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
This is not what this is about.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But also clinically, they're less likely to be hospitalized. They're less likely to end up with amputations, eye issues.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
No one's arguing that. I'm 100% on board with you on that. The world that I think, that you've kind of found yourself in and why perhaps there's people arguing against you is you're in the world of this extremist diet tribe world, A. B, nutrition research has been so flawed. C, The podcasts where you've appeared, they've kind of taken statements of yours out of context.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Perhaps some of your metaphors were well-intentioned and worked very well for patients on a practical level, but then mechanically did not hold up for those individuals. So they were upset by them. And it doesn't help when like a diary CEO editor takes and says, you founded intermittent fasting or you were the inventor.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But that's what I'm saying.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
You see how now, because when I do these podcasts and why I started this is not just to get to the truth of the research, how we're talking about it, but also get down to people's point of views so that they're accurately represented as opposed to doing some kind of gotcha sequence where it's like, oh, look, you see, he misspoke and now we got him and we got a 10 million view clip out.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
That's not the goal. And I feel like that's done tremendous harm. There was one point that you made, I forgot where it was, about timing of intermittent fasting that you believe it's better if you were to skip a meal, skipping dinner is favorable to skipping breakfast. I was curious why you thought that was the case.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So you were looking at it from like the practical standpoint of when you're hungry.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
There's already so many variables that he can't control.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Although there was some research showing some potential heart effects of fasting negatively. But I think, again, a lot of this is overblown and over mechanistic. Why can't I say mechanistic? Mechanistic. Mechanistic, Jesus.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Because it's really what you can stick with the most that's going to give you the biggest benefit.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I mean, you could eat six times a day and be totally healthy. Oh, certainly, certainly you can.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think this is where the calories in calories in folks would come in and say, intermittent fasting doesn't solve everything. Because while on the whole, if you look at people decreasing their eating window, they will eat less calories. You could still over consume calories in an eight hour window and not lose weight. Yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
No, meaning some people fall into the pattern of binging and eating way too much in their small window and then actually gaining weight. So again, just like there is no miracle formula, it needs to be really individualized and thought about.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
The reason I just brought up the timing issue is I came across some pretty good randomized controlled studies from a meta-analysis that looked at time-restricted eating, removing the breakfast component or the dinner component. And from a cardiometabolic marker standpoint, they didn't see much of a difference in which one they changed.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So I think it needs to be individualized for the person socially, culturally, based on what they eat. So I think it really...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Is that because they were treating with insulin? Because again, this is before my time when I wasn't in medicine yet. I started practicing medicine in 2014. That they were treating with insulin too early? Like they were jumping in and treating with insulin at a hemoglobin C of eight and trying to get it to six and a half?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So that's the big difference between someone with an alcohol addiction. When I have someone come into my practice who is abusing alcohol, my goal is to get them off alcohol. But if someone's over consuming food, I'm not getting them off food.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, because there's foods that have sugar that can be very healthy for you that you'd be missing out on their micronutrients on. Yeah. So that's why I think harping on one variable like that is not enough.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It's like- Also people like to increase energy expenditure on vacation, walking around a lot.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And the stress levels drastically drop.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
The starting point is my curiosity. Cause I can see if you're starting insulin too early that you may run into some issues, but cause now the guidelines are starting insulin above 10.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It starts with a behavior thing and ends up being a diet.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But- Which I think we're all on the same page now. And I'm glad we're all kind of in this nutrition community now fighting the good fight of prevention as opposed to just treatment.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I don't want to limit that because it can be for some and-
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And it's a good educational component from an understanding.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But it's like, okay, if you're- Because I have had patients that come in and say, oh, doctor, my calories don't matter. As long as I'm eating healthy foods, I can eat a ton of them and be good. And I don't want that message to land for them.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But that's how that mess- Because like- The thing that I think what makes the YouTube channel successful is that I feel like I have a good grasp on how people understand the messages that we're sending out. And that message where like calories in, calories out, don't matter, it's the insulin component, lands for a lot of people in as long as I eat healthy foods, I can eat it unlimited.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And I don't want them to get that message because I don't think that's what you mean.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Which is the calories in, calories out sort of motto.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
70% of a population that's overweight or obese, those signals are not as strong as they once were.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But I think that that's where it's much more- And I think to improve the hormonal picture, if we think about calories in, calories out, which could be done through intermittent fasting, we could actually get the hormonal influences in a better place.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, that's the future drug targeting eggs.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Because you only had those- When was the DPP-4s and the SLG-2s?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Certain foods are very GLP-1 prone. Exactly.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
To help you make a behavioral change or a food drive change like Dr. Mike Israetel talks about.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, now that we're in the same, diet camp, nutritional camp and everyone else. Where is going to be your future area of interest in research? Now that sort of intermittent fasting is a totally viable model that people talk about, that weight loss is an important factor of the diabetes model. Where do you go next? What's your next line of thought or inquisition?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
sort of timeline of this is a little bit off. So I guess let's play a little catch up. So now we're in the present and what is happening now in the diabetic space?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Fruit juice versus eating the whole fruit. So yeah, there's absolutely those.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, it's how consuming certain red meats, if you consume them with green leafy vegetables, it neutralizes some of the negative effects of the red meats as well.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It's the Facebookification, Netflixification of food. Yeah. To try and get you to click watch next.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
We need to get one of the food scientists that's hired by one of these industry experts and get them to do like a tell-all vice documentary style where we blur out their face and they tell the secrets of... What they're studying, what behaviors they're trying to skip over, where they've had successes, where they've had failures.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And also there's, I'm scared of fear mongering around chemicals. Cause like what's a chem, a water is a chemical, but like some of the chemicals that we have in certain foods, like certain food dyes here that people say are not present in Europe, for example, just go by a different name out there. So there is a lot of confusion and misinformation in this space.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
But there's definitely room for improvement, especially when it comes to prepackaged foods, ending subsidies for certain foods, or at least changing the incentives to be more health-focused. So there's a lot of room for improvement there.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, it's also dose dependent.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
We just don't know. I don't think it's playing a huge role because I think that would have been very quickly found out. But is it playing a role? And is it a risk that's unnecessary? Probably. It's unnecessary, yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Yeah, there's a lot of nutritional... complications, like even with the pesticides of it all. Like I've actually taken the time to really dig into the research and figure out why there's, for example, a difference between our EPA here has said that the main pesticide that we use here is not likely to cause cancer in humans.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
versus the WHO's organization, the IARC, said that there's a probable link to cancer in humans. And how they both came to the appropriate conclusions based on what they were studying was just slightly different in slightly different populations. And when you're using a slightly different measuring stick, you can come to those radically different conclusions.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And yet both organizations are actually honest in their evaluation. The question is, what did you want to measure? So very interesting how you can look at that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
I think that's widely accepted now. Especially in education, like the way that I'm teaching my residents, the way that medical schools- I hope so, because it wasn't for a long time.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, I'm glad we covered it. Thank you so much, Dr. Fung. I appreciate your time. Wow, what a convo with Dr. Fung. I think it surprised me how much we actually agree on topics. It even surprises me on the points where we disagree, because it seems like we're saying the same thing, maybe just having different definitions of words and even,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
people taking some of his statements out of context, clipping them and making them to be a little bit more dramatic than they should be. I hope you enjoyed our new truth seeking mode where we have those fact checks labeled in the description of the video. I think that's a pretty cool standard for us to start to follow when it comes to putting out accurate info.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
It's hard to live fact check, but to do it after the video, it kind of takes away some of the pressure, makes it a bit easier, allows us to be more accurate. Huge thanks to Dr. Fung for being open, for having this discussion in general. Most people, if they faced any sort of debate, would kind of shy away from that. So huge thanks to Dr. Fung. Huge thanks to you for listening.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And that is to signal to you that there's a footnote in the description of this video leading to a separate short video clearing up the controversy with sources. Get ready for a deep dive on the science of nutrition, weight loss, and reversing chronic disease. Let's get started. Dr. Fung, I'm really excited to talk with you on a topic that very much needs more attention, the topic of obesity.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
If you enjoyed this podcast, please give it a five-star review. It helps other people find and discover the podcast. And if you have some comments, leave some of those. That also helps. And another episode that I think you'll very much enjoy is the one with Marian Nestle, where we talk about food podcasts. and how the invisible hand of marketing and government food agencies change how you eat.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Really cool. As always, stay happy and healthy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
So would you say in that situation that those patients were over-consuming calories, perhaps carbohydrates, and as a result, getting insulin simultaneously, thereby storing it, gaining more weight? You're saying instead of focusing on the insulin, we should have been focusing on their dietary changes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Well, the disease itself in terms of the sugar regulation could be managed, maybe put in remission. I guess it's like an issue of vocabulary. But the risks that were created by becoming a quote-unquote type 2 diabetic, of having a higher risk of ASCVD, of kidney issues, of peripheral neuropathy, those risks stayed elevated. Is that fair to say?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
Then compared to a person who's never had an abnormal A1C.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
where again, I came in six, seven years into medicine after that, seeing bariatric surgery cases where we saw the biggest cases of remission after a drastic 40% of body weight being lost, where everyone hesitated to use the term cured. But we saw drastic improvements where now it could be managed with just dietary control as opposed to getting medications on board.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
And perhaps we still recommended some preventive medications, managing... blood pressure more thoroughly by getting an ACE inhibitor on board, managing cholesterol a little bit more aggressively because we considered them higher risk by getting a statin on board. But in general, I think bariatric surgery provided us a really good window into seeing how drastic weight loss can impact diabetes.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Debating Dr. Jason Fung On Calories & Insulin
As you've said in previous conversations, I mean, we've had guests talking about it. We're in a crisis state where 60, maybe now 70% overweight or obese as a nation here, at least in the United States. I'm assuming similar figures in Canada or- A little less, but- A little bit less, but also climbing- But also very high. And truly a worldwide issue, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Exposing Widespread Corruption In Alzheimer's Research | Charles Piller
ausgeruht sein ganz einfach trainiere deinen schlaf und werde auch du zum morgenmenschen mit der galaxy watch 7 oder dem galaxy ring und der samsung health app
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Das ist eine tolle Art und Weise, das zu sagen. Ich habe immer darüber nachgedacht, die nächste Zeit, wenn du darüber nachdenkst, was du tun willst, dann tue, was du Angst davor hast. Und auch für mich gibt es viele Ängste, Höhen, das und das. Und die Erfahrung auf den Kanälen war, Keep doing all those things on camera.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
And eventually you'll find something that you truly love that you don't even know you enjoyed. With this channel, I became a professional boxer. I flew an F-16 airplane. All these things that normally I would have never done. And I'm still scared of doing them. But they've pushed me to a level where it's cool to be able to experience that.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
And looking back at it, thinking, oh, if I wouldn't have done that, how much would that have sucked? Und ich hoffe, dass Leute davon wegnehmen, dass sie ein bisschen Braverie in sich selbst haben sollten. Nicht in der Welt um sie herum, sondern in sich selbst, um zu versuchen. Und versuchen, zumindest zu verletzen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wenn wir über Verletzungen und Schwierigkeiten, die Sie hatten, denken, haben Sie es kurz mit Ihrem Diagnosen betrachtet. Nehmen Sie uns durch, was cystische Fibrosis für Sie bedeutet hat, als Sie jünger waren und wie es sich entwickelt hat, als die Zeit überging.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Verstehen Sie sich jetzt, als Sie das hören, und sagen, Na, I don't care. I want to live my life to the fullest. And then going on to climb Mount Kilimanjaro, paddle boarding from the Bahamas to Florida and setting a world record by running 36 marathons in just 36 days. Well now, imagine no more.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Glaubst du, dass du die Bedingungen gleichmäßig oder sogar mehr so über die Bedingungen deiner Arztinnen beibringst?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, das ist so, wie ich immer über Medizin gedacht habe, auch in meiner Bildung, weil ich ein DO bin, ich bin ein Arzt für Osteopathische Medizin. In den USA haben wir hier zwei Arzttypen, MDs und DOs. Und in der DO-Mindset mögen wir alle, egal ob sie ein Jahr oder 100 Jahre alt sind, als Athleten behandeln. Also wollen wir ihnen helfen, Dinge mit einem Rehab-Mindset durchzudenken.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Please welcome one of the bravest individuals I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, Sophie Grace Holmes, to the Checkup Podcast. Let's get started. Warum hattest du 36?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
that you're going to be retraining yourself. So if you have Parkinson's and you have issues with your gait, yes, it's dangerous to walk, run, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. In fact, we encourage patients to do it. And obviously we try to do it safely, that matches their abilities and keep challenging them to do more.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Weil so oft sehe ich diese Patienten, die demotiviert werden oder Angst haben, neue Dinge zu probieren. Aber je mehr wir versuchen, mehr zu tun, desto weniger werden sie 36 Marathons und 36 Tage laufen. Ich denke, das ist eine sinnvolle Sache, aber vielleicht werden sie 36 Block laufen können.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Und das könnte so ein Spielchanger in jemandem Leben sein, aus der Perspektive einer Independence, wo sie in den Store gehen können, ihre eigenen Gemüse auf sich haben können, mit dem Risiko, dass sie fallen könnten. Risiken müssen gestaltet werden.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Und wenn du dir diese Risiken bewusst bist, und ich glaube, das ist wirklich der einzige Weg, dass du dir diese Risiken bewusst bist, wenn du sie zuerst nimmst, kannst du dann die Entscheidung für dich selbst machen und diese körperliche Autonomie behalten. Also denke ich, das ist großartig. Wie alt warst du, als du zum ersten Mal darüber gelernt hast, dass du cystische Fibrosis hattest?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Was war dein Eltern-Mindset, als Kind durch all diese Tätigkeiten zu gehen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Okay, also es gab viel Druck, um 36 Marathons zu starten.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
So you've impacted their way they live life? Really?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Reflecting on the fact that as a young child you've impacted your parents' mental health, their lives, the way that they live their lives, how does that make you feel?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
War es da eine Tension, als du ihnen versprochen hast, dass du dieses neue Challenge machst?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wow.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hast du Leute aus deiner Leben, die nicht so waren, getrennt?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Es ist ziemlich faszinierend für mich, dass du auf der einen Seite sagst, du musst dir sehr bewusst sein, was für dich schlecht ist und sie wegnehmen. Aber auf der anderen Seite machst du auch viele Dinge, die man normalerweise sagen würde, dass sie schlecht sind, wie 36 Marathons und 36 Tage.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ist das nur, dass du ein sehr firmes Verständnis hast, wer du bist, wo du diese Nischendistinktion machen kannst, oder machst du das mit einer anderen Strategie?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Kannst du uns über eine bestimmte Situation erzählen, in der du in einem dieser Fällen durchgegangen bist, in der du etwas verletzt hast oder etwas gemacht hast, das dich nicht gut gefühlt hat, aber du auf der anderen Seite erfolgreich bist?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wow. What experiences did you have strong takeaways from in traveling the world?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Was steht dir am meisten vor?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wow. And the plan going into it was 36?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich weiß, dass viele Menschen ihre Leben auf den Bergen riskieren. Ich glaube, es gibt Leute, die ihre Leben auf den Mount Everest verloren haben. Es gibt viele Menschen, die diese Herausforderung unternehmen. Warum tun die Leute das, wenn es so ein Risiko für ihre Leben ist?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
I remember reading that there's a lot of trash there now and it's kind of not the right place to go.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Okay, so you're like, I'm going to hit 36 and you hit all 36. How does fitness training for multiple marathons differ than when you're just training for one?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, wir können darauf fokussieren. Und sprichst du von steigenden Bergen, was ist es so, wenn deine Ärzte dir sagen, hey, du wirst nicht 16 Jahre alt sehen? Wie ist das für dich?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich war so, weißt du was?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
So, teach me for a second. I have to tell a patient, maybe not for cystic fibrosis, but on numerous other occasions, different conditions, if I have to tell them what their expectancy is based on others, which is all I can do, really. When we're talking about doctors making recommendations, we go off of the past, what we know, what we've learned.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
How does a doctor tell a patient what they know, but maybe that it will be different for them in order to not impact their motivation and excitement for life?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Nicht für mich. Warum?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ist es spannend zu sehen, dass sich die Lebenserwartung in den letzten zwei Jahrzehnten fast verdoppelt hat?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Bist du sprichst von einem CFTR Modulator? Ja.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, die Kontrolle zu geben, aber in der Zwischenzeit zu sagen, ich stehe immer noch in Bezug auf dieses Fahrzeug, ist ein kräftiger Behandlungsmechanismus. Was sind die Symptome, die du erlebt hast, oder die du im Laufe des CF erlebt hast?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
And that's not what people think it is. No, I know. Because they think salty is like angry. Yeah. So salty skin. Yeah, salty skin.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wow. So symptom free at this point.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wie beschreiben Sie, wenn ich ein Freund bin, den Sie machen und Sie versuchen, ihnen zu erklären, was cystische Fibrosis ist, wie würden Sie die Bedingungen zu ihnen beschreiben?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wie voller Atemhunger.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Und dann, was ist mit den Außenseiten von Respirationssymptomen? Du hast auch die GI-Issuen erwähnt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hat das für dich ein Problem gewesen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Right. Speaking of not great advice from the healthcare system, what's been your relationship with the healthcare system and how has it evolved in the last few years?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
When you say they're great, what were they doing that was positive?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hat jemand, vielleicht sogar Ärzte, die Fakt, dass du Cystic Fibrosis hattest, wenn du all das gemacht hattest?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Du hast im Laufe von Covid-19 einen Marathon auf deinem Lahn gemacht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Was denkst du, wenn du das machst? Du musst dich wirklich gut unterhalten.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Warum?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Also fühlst du dich glücklich genug, um zu schmerzen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wie hat diese Reise deine Möglichkeit verändert, mit deinen Klienten zu arbeiten, die du trainierst, vielleicht etwas Unglaubliches zu tun oder einfach nur ein Exercise-Programm zu starten?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja. Läuft das immer zurück, dass sie demotiviert werden, dass sie sagen, sie sehen, was sie tun, und sie können das nicht mehr?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Sagst du, dass ein Marathon, viele Marathons zu fahren, mehr ein mentales Fehl ist als ein physisches Fehl? In einer Art und Weise, ja.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Das ist eine gute Motivationstaktik. Ich wollte von Anfang an fragen, als du sagst, dass du sehr jung warst mit der Initialdiagnose von cystischer Fibrosis, war das durch ein Screeningprogramm, als du ein Kind warst, oder war es später in deiner Kindheit?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Sie haben also darauf hingewiesen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wie viele Geschichten habe ich gehört und selbst mit dem erlebt?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Aber dann bist du ein Team. Du bist ein Team. Das ist unglaublich, dass du das so herausgefunden hast. Denn in diesen Tagen, glaube ich, ist jedes Kind jetzt für dieses Screening, zumindest in den Vereinigten Staaten. Und die Grund, warum wir so eine wichtige Screening machen, ist, dass, wenn wir früh herausfinden, dass wir Lebensqualität verbessern können,
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Es gab einen Zeitpunkt, in dem wir dachten, dass ein Screening etwas schädlich machen könnte. Denn dann würde es Patienten dazu führen, sich mehr Zeit in Krankenhäusern zu verbringen. Und es könnten Infektionen sein, die so verbreitet werden. Aber als wir mehr Forschung gemacht haben, haben wir herausgefunden, dass das nicht der Fall war. Und diese frühere Intervention war tatsächlich nötig.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Weißt du, was der Bermuda-Triangle ist? Das ist furchtbar. Leute verschwinden da und du bist auf einem Paddelbord? Und sind da Leute um dich herum?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, 80 Meilen auf einem Pfeil.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Okay, fair. Vielleicht brauche ich das Dr. Mike-Team hier, um mich zu helfen. Ist die Zystikfibrosis-Gemeinschaft nahe? Bist du mit einigen Einwohnern oder Organisationen festgehalten?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, wenn du im Chat oder in den Forum oder in den Meetings sprichst, was ist die Gespräche um?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hat jemand von Ihnen jemals berücksichtigt, was die Situation angeht?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Reflecting on that, what's the feeling that comes?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wow, das ist so, wie ich darüber nachgedacht habe. Als meine Mutter verflucht war, habe ich einen Hund für meinen Vater bekommen, einen Sibirischen Husky, mit dem gleichen Prinzip im Kopf, dass sie hoffen würde, dass sie ihn aktiv halten würde. Und sie hat einen phänomenalen Job daran gemacht, weil Sibirische Huskys so viel Energie haben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Also, du weißt, es hat natürlich angefangen, mit ihm zu laufen, mit ihr, dann mit ihr zu joggen. Jetzt, leider, ist sie ein Tripod. Weil sie eine kleine Krankheit hatte. Aber sie macht es noch gut. Er nimmt sie immer noch raus. Zwei Mal am Tag wahrscheinlich. Sie ist ein Krieger. Und Hunde haben wirklich den Einfluss auf die Menschen. Ich habe zwei Hunde selbst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich bin wirklich auf Hunde fasziniert. Ich habe zwei Neukölln. Sie sind riesig. Und sie lieben zu schwimmen. Also sind sie immer im Pool und immer in gutem Mood. Und ich würde sagen, das ist die eine große Unterschiede zwischen Hunden und Hunden. Ich habe meine Hunde nie, zumindest im Wesentlichen, in einem schlechten Mood gesehen. Habt ihr das?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Right. Is there ever a period of time, whether you're in between marathons or you're in the middle of a marathon, where you're thinking, okay, oh hey, this isn't so bad, I'm kind of in a good flow? Or does it always feel like torture?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, was... Wir brauchen das. Ja, wie bekommen wir das?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Sie ist immer glücklich.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Das ist so lustig. Zeig mir, wie dein Leben jetzt mit deinem Geschäft aussieht, mit dem Fakt, dass du den New York City Marathon fährst. Du hattest auch letztens eine persönliche tolle Nachricht. Ich hatte eine, danke. Ja, also erzähl uns über das.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wow. Und dann, wie ist das persönliche Leben?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Herzlichen Glückwunsch. Danke. Wie war die Überraschung? Wie hat sie gespielt?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich liebe das Chaos.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Und ihr habt schon ein bisschen zusammengekommen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
And that was while you were together?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Das sind sechs. Wow.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Also was passiert mit den sechs?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hat Jamie dir jemals Fragen über den medizinischen Weg behandelt, wie du ihn hast?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Nun, er hat einen Ironman vor sechs Wochen gemacht.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich bin eine tolle Influenz. Nein, du machst Menschen, die Marathons fahren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
I feel like I'm about to run a marathon. Was that a bonding factor for you guys, talking about your health? Or is that something that just what most people saw on the surface, but you guys talk deeper than that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
You sound like someone who's very much into the controlled chaos, where you're in control of the chaos. You're very proud of the achievements, and rightfully so, that you've accomplished. Do you ever look back and say, I would have done this a little bit differently? Maybe more or less, what have you?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hast du dir diese Frage zu dir selbst beantwortet?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Richtig. Welche Strategie benutzt du, die wir vielleicht in der Versuchung, den nächsten Schritt zu erreichen, und ständig einen neuen Rekord für uns selbst zu setzen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Yeah. To do this type of, I mean, one marathon obviously is tricky, but the multiple marathons. Fitness is tough. What do you do for nutrition? I can't even, because you also have to consume more calories than a typical person because of your condition. Am I right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Was ist das Mindset?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
That's a lot of calories.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich meine, nicht wirklich. Das ist viel täglich.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Es brachte uns zu.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Weil sie für jeden auftauchen. Das ist eine menschliche Bedingung.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Und in Bezug auf das Barometer, das wir vorhin in dieser Konversation vorgebracht haben, wenn wir zurückkommen auf das Thema, ist es eigentlich ziemlich nett, Reden über unsere Schmerzen bedeutet nicht unbedingt, dass wir es als Pathologie sprechen. Das bedeutet, dass es ein medizinisches oder mentales Gesundheitsproblem gibt, wenn man schmerzt. Schmerzen ist eine akzeptable menschliche Emotion.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
In Wahrheit könnte es eine positive Emotion sein. Es könnte eine motivierende Emotion sein. Aber was ich oft sehe, ich bin gespannt, ob du das in deiner eigenen persönlichen Leben mit Freunden hast, vielleicht. Meine Patienten kommen rein und sagen mir, dass sie denken, dass sie ein mentales Gesundheitsproblem haben. Und sie wählen einen aus der Liste.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wenn in der Realität, sie erleben nur Schmerzen, die für die Verletzung eines Liebhabers ziemlich geeignet sind. Eine schwierige Situation mit Schulung oder Verbrechen. Und oft muss die Gespräche darum gehen, dass es völlig akzeptabel ist, jetzt unten zu stehen. Fühlen Sie sich, dass Menschen in Ihrem Leben manchmal das auch verlieren?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hm.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich hatte eine kleine Debatte mitten in einem Podcast mit einem anderen Kreator, Dr. Mike Isretel. Er hat einen Ph.D. und er hat gesagt, es wäre nicht toll, wenn wir eine Art Pille kreieren könnten, die uns nicht immer traurig macht, weil traurig ist eine unnötige Emotion. Ich habe nicht geglaubt. Was ist deine Meinung? Ich habe nicht geglaubt.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Findest du es anstrengend, wenn ein Paar sagt, wir kämpfen nie, alles ist immer toll?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Sprechst du von schlechtem Hinweis, was ist der schlimmste Hinweis, den du je bekommen hast?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Also könnte der schlechteste Hinweis, den du je bekommen hast, auch der beste Hinweis sein?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Right, for you, specifically in your case, it seems like whenever anyone tells you no, you're like, oh, I'm going to go through it.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
All right, so my goal here maybe then should be to say something that you can't do and make you do something pretty incredible.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
You should become a physician.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
What? Anything. Whatever you're most passionate about.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Right. Glaubst du, das ist ein Chicken-or-the-Egg-Szenario? Und ich erkläre, was ich damit meine. Es gibt einige Leute, die wirklich große Kontrolle haben. Und dann gibt es einige, die nicht. Gibt es einen Weg, diese Kontrolle zu erlernen, damit du die Unterschiede machen kannst?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
In Boxing, the analogy is like, you can become a better fighter sparring someone significantly worse than you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Yeah? Well, talking about torturing yourself, that's...
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
So you use FOMO as a way to motivate yourself. Maybe, yeah.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Es macht dich lebendig, wenn du dich schießt und auch wenn du dich schießt. Ja. Die Art, wie du es beschrieben hast, wie du dich fühlst, wenn du rennst, ist fast gleich, wie wenn du in einem Ring kämpfst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja. Es fliegt. Und auch Leute sagen, oh, es sind drei Minuten, das ist nichts. Nein, nein, nein. Ich challenge Leute, in drei Minuten einen Rund zu machen und zu sehen, wie schnell du nach 15 Sekunden müde wirst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, wenn Leute sagen, warum können Amateure nur zwei Minuten Runden machen? Sie können nicht einen extra Minuten machen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
It's interesting how people will sometimes label things good or bad. And I always try and encourage people to not think in those black or white terms. Because what ends up happening is you lose the opportunity to make something that's a negative a positive. Or at least see the silver lining in the negative. So people will oftentimes villainize stress. And they say, oh, stress is terrible.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Entschuldigung.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, oh mein Gott, das ist so lustig. Was findest du, ist die größte Herausforderung in diesen Tagen, in der Trainierung von Individuen, um fit zu werden?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Do you ever have issues with your patients falling or your patients, your clients falling for misinformation?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Was ist das Schlimmste, was sie zu dir wiederholen?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ja, man muss sich zu wehren.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Erklär uns, wie du das Begeistern von wehren Gefühlen einbringst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Yeah. Do you ever get negative criticism of you saying that?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Was sagen die Kritiker?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Das ist interessant. Ich hatte einen Weltcup-Winner, Spieler des Jahres, Frauen-Soccer-Champion, Carly Lloyd, auf diesem Podcast. Und sie hat darüber gesprochen, wie sie den Trend im Sport nicht mag, wo mehr Bedürfnis von der Perspektive des Laufmanagements, der Entschlossenheit auf dem Körper, vorgesehen wird.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
It shortens your lifespan. You want to avoid stress. Und während chronischer Stress, das ist wahr, du willst langfristigen Stress vermeiden, wo du nie einen Break bekommst, es ist unverweilbar, das könnte negative Gesundheitseinschränkungen haben. Aber im Allgemeinen, dein Ausdruck von Stress, wie du über Stress denkst, zählt so viel, wenn nicht mehr, dann wie viel Stress du tatsächlich erlebst.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Sie sagte, Rest ist natürlich wichtig, aber wenn sie in den Weltcup gehen würde, wäre sie so hart trainiert, wie wenn sie zuhause wäre, wo die Leute es leicht gemacht haben während der Weltcup. Fühlt ihr, dass das auch im Sport passiert? Oder fühlt ihr, dass es ein richtiger Schritt ist, um das Körper zu retten?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Wirklich?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Yeah, fighting that line is so hard. When I had my professional boxing match, I had to lose 20, 30 pounds. I had to really up my cardiovascular training because I was nowhere near in shape for a three-minute round fight, you know, multi-round fight. And
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich denke, dass es einen Weltraum gibt, wo ich mich wahrscheinlich für diesen Kampf übertrainiert habe, wo ich gut in der Woche sparring hatte, bevor ich auf Fight Week war. Ich war immer noch fünf, sechs Meilen unterwegs. Leute so, was machst du? Ich bin so, oh, aber ich gehe langsam. Es sollte nicht so schlecht sein. Und ich wusste nie, was diese Linie war.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Whereas if I think now, if I took a week and a half off before the fight, it's not like I would have been less trained, but I would have been very well rested. And I think that is a significant advantage. So unless you do it and fail maybe at times or have the greatest guidance in the world, how else do you know?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Hard to say. There was a fear of going into the fight where even in my warm-ups I felt tired. And that fear was there during the fight. Wobei, wenn ich diese Angst nicht hatte und ich so gut aufgestanden war und gesagt habe, ich kann einfach für immer weitergehen, was nach Training für ein Jahr, für einen Kampf, wie du musst, musst du dir in deiner Fitness sicher sein.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Und wenn du das nicht hattest, denke ich, könnte das den Mindset negativ beeinflussen.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Weil ich glaube, ich hatte einen Moment von Enttäuschung während des Kampfes, wo ich in den Ring ging und keine Nervosität hatte.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich glaube, das ist ein Problem.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Das ist das, was ich sage. Ich glaube nicht. I think I was okay. Because you're going out to fight a professional who's been doing this for his livelihood and doesn't want to take a loss, wants to embarrass you basically. And I'm just like, yeah, hey everyone, I'm happy to be here.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
And it's like completely dissociated because I think that was the only way I found that I could deal with that level of stress.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
You never had that happen in your moments? Because you're always very much in the zone, right?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Tricky stuff. Well, look, I appreciate you sharing your journey. It's amazing to take away so many of the variables that you've used quite successfully in your life. Hopefully the viewers will get the same benefit that I have in talking to you. And I hope you continue tackling the most incredible challenges. You have the mountains coming up.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Also wenn du deinen Freund stressen kannst und wenn du deinen Körper als eine Herausforderung vorbereitest und dass du versuchst, eine Herausforderung zu überwinden, und auch wenn du es nicht tust, wirst du etwas lernen, dann wird das Mindset dir ermöglichen, bessere Ergebnisse aus dem impactierten Stress zu bekommen. Absolut. Hast du Situationen gehabt, in denen das in deinem Leben gespielt hat?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Gibt es da etwas auf der Bucketliste, das du im Hinterkopf hättest?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
All right. So where do people go to follow along that journey?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Awesome. Well, Sophie, thank you so much. Congratulations on the Guinness World Record and finishing the New York City Marathon. Great accomplishment. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Ich bin so froh, dass wir diese Episode mit Sophie beendet haben. Glücklicherweise war sie in der Stadt für den New York City Marathon und wir konnten sie für eine Appearance während sie in der Stadt war.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Ich hatte die Gelegenheit, mit vielen professionellen Athleten auf dem Show zu sprechen, insbesondere mit Carly Lloyd von der US-Womens National Soccer Team. Das ist richtig. Manche nennen sie die Goat. Geht zurück zu unseren Episoden, um das zu finden und es jetzt zu hören.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
And if you enjoyed this episode, I really appreciate if you could leave us a five-star review, potentially a comment, as it's the best way to help us find new viewers. And as always, stay happy and healthy.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Do you consider cystic fibrosis a terminal illness?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Du bist wirklich ein unabhängiger Patient.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
I think the way that you're doing it is amazing. And what you're talking about of stepping outside of your comfort zone is an important principle, not just in healthcare, but in nature. So when we think about bones, we want our bones to be strong. And we think, oh, well, if you take the load off the bones, they'll be stronger, less likely to break. No.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Actually, when you resistance train frequently, especially into older age, that allows bones to be more resilient, more protective of fractures. Same thing with our muscles. If we want them to grow, we have to challenge them and actually break them down. Unser Immunsystem benötigt regelmäßig Herausforderungen, um gut funktionieren zu können.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Gleiches gilt für unsere mentale Gesundheit und die Art, wie du es beschreibst, als eine Herausforderung zu setzen, zu verlieren, aber zu überwinden, an einem Punkt. Unsere Körper arbeiten in Homöostasis, was im Grunde ein Barometer ist. Und der Barometer kann entscheiden, wenn etwas kalt ist, basierend darauf, wie es sich fühlte, als es heiß war.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Es fühlt sich das Gegenteil an, als es heiß war, wie es sich fühlte, als es kalt war. Und ich denke, Menschen verlieren die Sicht davon, weil sie wieder einmal die Anwendung der I want to be comfortable. I don't want to be overly stressed. And I think that's coming as a reflex to how perhaps society was 20, 30, 40 years ago, where it was push, burn both candles, burn the candle on both ends.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
And it created some negative health repercussions. And now we kind of flipped perhaps too far the other way, where it's Schau für Freude, suche Freude, challenge dich nicht. Und es muss die kleine Mittellinie sein, wo du dich entsprechend challenge, in einer Weise, die glücklicher ist.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Das Beispiel, das ich meinen Patienten oft gebe, ist, versuche ein Basketballspiel zu spielen und ein Vollspiel zu schießen, um den Schuss zu machen. Es wird ziemlich anstrengend sein, weil du es fast nie machen wirst. Selbst wenn du es einmal machen wirst, wird es selten sein. Aber jetzt steigst du dich näher zum Basket und schießt einen Freigang.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Du wirst einige machen, aber nicht alle, und du könntest versuchen, besser zu werden. Wenn du da wirklich gut bist, steigst du dich ein wenig weiter zurück zur Dreipunkt-Linie.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Und du setzt diese Herausforderung für dich selbst, damit du eine ausreichende Anzahl an Erleichterungen bekommst, wenn du diesen Meilenstein schießt, aber nicht so viel, dass du über und über und über wieder verlierst, weil das nicht lustig ist. Und es geht wirklich um diese Balance. So I'm curious how you got to the balance of saying, okay, 36 Marathons.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Because that seems like an extreme, but it might be a balance for you.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
How did you realize who you were in the sense of, I get when you get a really serious health diagnosis and you say, well, I want to stay active, but you seem to be able to take it to the extreme level. How did you know where that line was for yourself?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Verstehen Sie sich als ein junges Kind, das gesagt hat, dass Sie nicht über 16 Jahre alt leben werden, dass Sie eine genetische Bedingung haben, die Cystic Fibrosis nennt, die Ihren Muckel aufwärmen wird, und somit die vitalen Organe, wie Ihre Lungen und Pancreas, zerstören, dass es wahrscheinlich jeden Atemdruck in eine Herausforderung bringen würde, die sich auf Ihren Körper über die Zeit verringern würde, und dass Sie unglaublich vorsichtig sein müssen, wie Sie Ihren Körper behandeln, um jedes weitere Jahr zu überleben.
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
Why do you think they're forgetting?
The Checkup with Doctor Mike
Doctors Said She Was Going To Die, But She Refused To Believe It | Sophie Grace Holmes
What's a good first way to do that process?