Craig Melvin

I think to the chief's point, like even these guys who had, you know, I mean, you've been at SLED for a while. You've seen a murder. You know, you've seen probably a double murder, car accidents. You've seen some stuff. But to see two little boys who were still, when they hoisted that car from John D. Long Lake, they were still strapped in. And they'd been strapped in for nine days. Yeah.

I think to the chief's point, like even these guys who had, you know, I mean, you've been at SLED for a while. You've seen a murder. You know, you've seen probably a double murder, car accidents. You've seen some stuff. But to see two little boys who were still, when they hoisted that car from John D. Long Lake, they were still strapped in. And they'd been strapped in for nine days. Yeah.

So you can only imagine what these officers saw. And by the way, and this is, I think, one of the other reasons that this case has resonated with so many for so long now, it wasn't just the killing of the children. It was the way that she did it.

So you can only imagine what these officers saw. And by the way, and this is, I think, one of the other reasons that this case has resonated with so many for so long now, it wasn't just the killing of the children. It was the way that she did it.

As odd as that may sound.

As odd as that may sound.

Correct. And anyone who's had small children, You know, kids are 10 and 8 now, and I remember the car seat phase. And, I mean, the car seat is sacrosanct. You've got to make sure they're buckled in the car seat. You've got to have the car seat. You've got to make sure the car... You become obsessed with the car seat.

Correct. And anyone who's had small children, You know, kids are 10 and 8 now, and I remember the car seat phase. And, I mean, the car seat is sacrosanct. You've got to make sure they're buckled in the car seat. You've got to have the car seat. You've got to make sure the car... You become obsessed with the car seat.

And to think that these two little boys, they get strapped in their car seats by their mother, and they die this slow... Death submerged in this lake that they, and I think that's for a lot of people. It's not, it's not even, it's not what she did. It's not why she did it. It's the way that she did it. It's even now, 30 years later, that's the part that I think pisses me off the most.

And to think that these two little boys, they get strapped in their car seats by their mother, and they die this slow... Death submerged in this lake that they, and I think that's for a lot of people. It's not, it's not even, it's not what she did. It's not why she did it. It's the way that she did it. It's even now, 30 years later, that's the part that I think pisses me off the most.

But, you know, David Smith, Mank, he is—and this is of the takeaways for me of the episode. I'd never met David before. Obviously, I knew who he was. And he doesn't do a lot of interviews at all. No. And he decided to sit down with us exclusively because he wanted to make sure.

But, you know, David Smith, Mank, he is—and this is of the takeaways for me of the episode. I'd never met David before. Obviously, I knew who he was. And he doesn't do a lot of interviews at all. No. And he decided to sit down with us exclusively because he wanted to make sure.

that even though times have changed and the way we view abuse and depression, even though a lot of that has changed for us as a society, he did not want anyone using that lens to view what happened to his two boys in a sympathetic light back in 1994. So begrudgingly, he decided to make sure that we remembered what she did and what his boys were like. That had to be tough. It was.

that even though times have changed and the way we view abuse and depression, even though a lot of that has changed for us as a society, he did not want anyone using that lens to view what happened to his two boys in a sympathetic light back in 1994. So begrudgingly, he decided to make sure that we remembered what she did and what his boys were like. That had to be tough. It was.

And it's one of those things where, you know, you and I, you know, we've had some interviews that are hard and we've seen a lot. We've heard a lot. Quite frankly, we've probably become... a little desensitized to a lot, I did not fully appreciate the depth of his despair 30 years later. He talked about the two times that he nearly killed himself.

And it's one of those things where, you know, you and I, you know, we've had some interviews that are hard and we've seen a lot. We've heard a lot. Quite frankly, we've probably become... a little desensitized to a lot, I did not fully appreciate the depth of his despair 30 years later. He talked about the two times that he nearly killed himself.

He talked about not being able to get out of bed for months and just going to work. And you don't really think about this part of it, but for a very long time, Anytime anyone saw him, he was on TV every day for a long time. Everyone knew how the guy looked. And so he would have these strangers, well-meaning strangers, who would come up to him at the grocery store, the bank.

He talked about not being able to get out of bed for months and just going to work. And you don't really think about this part of it, but for a very long time, Anytime anyone saw him, he was on TV every day for a long time. Everyone knew how the guy looked. And so he would have these strangers, well-meaning strangers, who would come up to him at the grocery store, the bank.

I've been praying for you. I prayed for those boys. I prayed for Susan. And he had to leave town. He moved for a long time down to Florida just to get away from it.

I've been praying for you. I prayed for those boys. I prayed for Susan. And he had to leave town. He moved for a long time down to Florida just to get away from it.