Colin Browen
Appearances
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He was 20 years old and working on his bachelor of science in civil engineering. Anwar was described as a smart guy. He was also very passionate about his beliefs. People who knew him said that at this time in his life, he became very interested in politics and religion. And during his third year of college, he would actually travel to Afghanistan.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
where it was reported that he trained with the Mujahideen, a radical group of guerrilla soldiers who fight on behalf of Islam. When he came back to the US, Anwar decided to become an imam at a local mosque in Fort Collins, Colorado. An imam is essentially a leader at a mosque who helps lead prayers, and he would work here until he graduated from college in 1994.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
After his graduation, Anwar would move to San Diego to obtain his master's degree. And while there, he befriended two men he met at a San Diego mosque, named Khalid al-Midar and Nawaf al-Hamzi. And surprisingly, a few years later, these two men would later become two of the hijackers during the 9-11 terrorist attacks.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But in early 2001, before 9-11, Anwar would leave San Diego and move to Northern Virginia, where he became an imam at the Dar al-Hijrah Mosque, the same mosque that Nidal Hassan attended after his father's death.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Preparing for jihad is obligatory since jihad today is obligatory and the Sharia rule states that whatever is needed for an obligatory act becomes obligatory. Arms training is an essential part of preparation for jihad.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Allah says, "...and prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you don't know but Allah knows." The Messenger of Allah said regarding this verse, power is marksmanship, related by Muslim.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
The issue is so critical that if arms training is not possible in your country, then it is worth the time and money to travel to another country to train if you can. Soon enough, Anwar's blogs gained a lot of popularity all over the world. He even translated his blogs to English so he could have influence in the United States. And it seemed to be working.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, a lot of his followers were young, influential Muslims. Like we mentioned earlier, he worked with the Islamic youth in the United States, and he had a way of connecting with them. On his website, he posted blogs and videos of himself talking about his views.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
many experts have said that it was essentially a virtual bible for radical muslims he encouraged his followers to email him with any questions they might have and so he became a mentor to many people all over the world which is concerning considering some of his messages in one blog and more tells his followers don't consult with anybody in the killing of americans fighting the devil doesn't require consultation or prayers seeking divine guidance they are the party of the devil
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
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Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
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Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But let's get back to the story. Shortly after his mom's death, Nadal would move into a place of his own, and it was a lonely time for him. He lost both of his parents, he had put his medical career on hold, and he was searching for meaning. And it's here where he really started leaning on Anwar al-Awlaki. Now, he had only met him once at his mom's funeral, but Anwar had made a lasting impression.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Soon enough, Nadal was purchasing CDs of Anwar's recorded sermons, and he was really impressed by how powerful they were. He also loved Anwar's knowledge of the Qur'an. According to Nadal's family members, he was kind of obsessed with Anwar. He kept a book of his CDs in the trunk of his car, and he was always trying to hand out copies of them.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And then, just four months after his mother's death, 9-11 happened. And while all of America was completely heartbroken over this tragedy, Nadal Hassan felt very torn. Growing up, he had felt a lot of love for his country. This was the country that his parents came to, seeking the American dream. It was where they were able to thrive and make names for themselves in their community.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nadal grew up loving America, so much so that he had even joined the military. But then, after 9-11, the U.S. invaded Afghanistan. And from there, he felt like the country he loved and served was now raging a war against Islam.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And I'm Colin Brown.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, on March 23rd, 2003, a tragedy would take place at an American military base in the Middle East that would leave Nadal Hassan feeling inspired. That morning, at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait, A military sergeant from Los Angeles named Hassan Akbar would sneak over to the power generators and turn them off so that the base went completely dark.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He then threw four M67 hand grenades into the tents of soldiers while they slept. As the grenades exploded, many people tried to run for safety, but Akbar was waiting for them with an M4 rifle. Ultimately, he killed two officers and wounded 14. The incident was eye-opening for America. Sergeant Hassan Akbar was one of their own. and after the tragedy, they would make a disturbing discovery.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
As it turned out, he had been keeping a journal for 13 years, and it would later be used in his trial. In 1992, he wrote, I made a promise that if I am not able to achieve success because of some Caucasians, I will kill as many of them as possible. In 1993, he wrote, A Muslim should see himself as a Muslim only. His loyalty should be to Islam only.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
On February 4th, 2003, he wrote, I suppose they want to punk me or just humiliate me. Perhaps they feel that I will not do anything about that. They're right about that. I'm not going to do anything about it as long as I stay here. But as soon as I am in Iraq, I'm going to try and kill as many of them as possible.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
A few weeks before the attack, Akbar wrote, I may not have killed any Muslims, but being in the army is the same thing. I may have to make a choice very soon on who to kill. When the news spread about this story, Americans were horrified, but not Nadal. He was inspired, and he wouldn't stop talking about it with anyone who would listen.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
One of his supervisors even stated that afterwards, Nadal really wanted to study more stories of Muslim soldiers who had committed fratricide, which is the killing of one's own forces in war.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Back at his residency, Nadal continued to isolate himself from his colleagues. And in the meantime, he fell even deeper into his religious studies. During Christmas one year, his colleagues wanted to take a group picture together, but Nadal refused because he didn't want to take a picture with a female.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And despite his supervisor's orders, he continued talking to people about Islam and his views about the war in the Middle East. At some point, his advisors even pulled him aside and said that they didn't think the military was the right fit for him. They also offered to help him resign if that was something he still wanted.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nadal told them that he would leave, but only if he could be honorably discharged. However, they couldn't make that work. So from here, Nadal decided to stay. But nothing would change. He continued to be a problem. In one argument he had with a classmate, Nadal mentioned Sharia law, which are the religious laws of Islam. And he said that he believed Sharia law was superior to the constitution.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
so the classmate then brought up a portion of the quran that talks about martyrs in that portion it says that people who die for islam will be rewarded with a bunch of heavenly maidens or virgins when they get to heaven so this classmate asked him his opinion on this saying so you think suicide bombers are rewarded with virgins in heaven to which nadal responded yes
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
During one presentation where residents had to do a project on issues related to mental health, Nadal presented a 50-page PowerPoint about the persecution of Muslims by wars in the Middle East. One of his slides stated, And his final slide stated, Fighting to establish an Islamic state to please God, even by force, is condoned by the Islam.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Muslim soldiers should not serve in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting, killing believers unjustly.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Thank you.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
During the first year of the program, Nadal presented a project titled, Religious Conflicts Among US Muslim Soldiers. In part, it read, do you agree or disagree? Groups in the Muslim world that attack American civilians are defending Islam against America's efforts to divide and dominate the Islamic world. It also read, thinking now about US actions around the world,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Please tell me if you think the following are or are not US goals. Please say if you think it is. To weaken and divide the Islamic world. Now during this time, Nadal continued to attend the Silver Spring Mosque in Kensington, Maryland. He would go to the mosque nearly every day, dressed in his army fatigues.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Imam Fazool Khan, who was the mosque's leader, would later say that Nadal prayed five times a day and was always reading the Quran. But he was also a very isolated individual. Members would try to invite him to different programs and events at the mosque, but he never attended. It seemed as if he preferred to keep to himself.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But then one day, Imam Fazool Khan said that Nidal approached him and asked for his help in finding a traditional Muslim wife. But he was adamant on the exact type of woman he wanted. She had to pray five times a day, she had to wear a hijab, and she had to be a strict follower of Islam.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Today, if you were to look up Fort Hood, you'd likely find a number of different articles talking about all of the tragedies that have taken place there. But during your search, you'd probably find that it isn't even called Fort Hood anymore.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Imam Khan would say, "'He was interested in getting married, and I offer a matrimonial service here at the mosque. That's where I got to know him a little better. He would come here and look at the files for a wife.' He attended our seminars once or twice, and there was really no one that was pious enough for him.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Through his website, Aulaki encouraged American Muslims to carry out violent jihad against anyone who is not Muslim. On December 17, 2008, Nadal wrote to Aulaki and expressed his concern about Muslim Americans being forced to fight in wars against other Muslims. He also asked if he thought Hassan Akbar, who had attacked Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait in 2003, was a martyr for the Islamic faith.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Established in 1942, the base was originally a training location for tank destroyers during World War II, and it was named after Confederate General John Bell Hood. But in 2023, the US military decided to change its name. Hoping to correct racial injustice in the wake of the 2020 Civil Rights Movement, they renamed the base to Fort Cavazos.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, since Anwar al-Awlaki had ties to Al-Qaeda, the government had been keeping an eye on him, and they actually intercepted Nadal's email. In fact, the San Diego FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force marked the email as a product of interest due to it referring the American military. However, for an unknown reason, The email fell through the cracks.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
No one really looked into it, and they didn't see that the sender of the email was an active member of the US Army. To me, this is highly suspicious and a massive fail by American intelligence services. I have my own thoughts on these issues, but I'll keep them to myself. Regardless, at this point, Nadal was then free to keep communicating with Anwar al-Awlaki.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
On January 1st, 2009, Nadal wrote a second email to al-Awlaki that stated, Is it better for Muslims to say I am just Muslim and not Sunni or Shia, which seems to divide us?
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, this time, the FBI marked that the email was not a product of interest, and a note was placed in the file where the task force agent wrote, Though Name Redacted's research indicates that Nadal is not a military member, I still think this would make a good intelligence information report. There might be other information out there that links him to the military in some way.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Did you check to see what other Hassans are in the military? If not, I can have our guy run just the last name.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
On January 16, 2009, he wrote his third email that stated, Is it permissible to fire unguided rockets into Israel? There is no question that firing unguided rockets into Israel has the potential of indiscriminately killing civilians. The real question is why Hamas would do such a thing. Can one envision a scenario where it would be acceptable to do so?
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Well, what if Israel was and continues to indiscriminately kill and hurt civilians and commit other atrocities in the Gaza territory to serve their expansionary ambitions? One can then begin to at least understand why Palestinians would do such a thing. In fact, it is probably one of the things that they can do in an attempt to avenge themselves and repulse the enemy.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Two days later, another email was sent, and this time Nadal expressed his support of Hamas. By February 16th, Nadal had not received any correspondence back from Al-Laki, but he fired off another email that read, Please have alternative to donate to your website. For example, checks slash money orders may be sent to redacted. This can assure privacy for some who are concerned.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
So, instead of it being named after a Confederate general, it's now named after the Army's first Hispanic four-star general, Richard Edward Cavazos. Now, there were mixed opinions about this name change.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But to keep the conversation going, Nadal asked al-Awlaki how he could donate money and for his advice in finding a Muslim wife. And once again, the FBI intercepted this email, but marked it as not a product of interest. On February 22nd, 2009, al-Awlaki sent his second and final email to Nadal. He wrote, Believe it or not, I kind of felt that the contest would end up running into red tape.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
People in that part of the world are becoming very timid, and it doesn't look it's getting any better. Thanks for the offer to help. Well, it is needed, but I just don't know how to do it. There are poor people, orphans, widows, dawah projects, and the list goes on.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
So if you have any ideas on how to get help across and in accordance to law in a climate that is strict to start with, please let me know. Tell me more about yourself. I will keep an eye for a sister. Nadal was ecstatic that Aulaki had responded, and a few hours after he received the email, he wrote back, I will keep trying. If Allah wants something to occur, no one can stop it.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But there were a lot of people who were happy to leave the name Fort Hood in the past, not only because of who the base was named after, but for years, anytime someone mentioned Fort Hood, all that could come to mind was darkness, death, and tragedy. So maybe a new name could now give them a fresh start.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
My job is to put in the effort and have patience. Your various works force the controversial issues to surface and be addressed. If there's going to be a resolution between Islam and the West, the difficult issues need to be brought up. I think this is important. It may take many generations before people realize the gift that Allah has given them through your work.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But, I see the value now and don't have to wait for your death. My goal is Jannat for Daws and I praise and thank Allah for giving me the ability to strive, to see the truth.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
to beg for his forgiveness and ask for his guidance if people truly understood the peace they could have by really believing that allah is in control and that he is just testing to see who is the best among us it would be a lot easier to see through shaitan's promises of poverty and destruction I want to be with those who are the best.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Imam, if you have any specific projects that you feel are important to get on their feet, let me know. I will read up on them and inshallah, I will praise Allah. In regards to a sister for marriage, my name is Nidal Hasan. If you google CSTS and Nidal Hasan, you will see a picture of me. I currently reside in Silver Spring, Maryland. I was born and raised in the US.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Both of my parents are from Palestine and have both passed away. I joined the US military at age 17 as an infantryman. I subsequently received a BS in biochemistry degree in medicine with a residency training in psychiatry. and I'm just finishing up my fellowship training in disaster and preventive psychiatry.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
During my working career, I've been a busboy, a dishwasher, a cook, a cashier, a lab technician, a researcher, and entrepreneur. Allah lifted the veil from my eyes about eight to nine years ago, and I have been striving for Jannah for now ever since. I hope, inshallah, my endeavor will be realized.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
If you know someone you feel that would be compatible and complement my endeavors to please Allah, please let me know.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But back in 2009, before all the tragedy that stained its reputation, the town of Killeen was proud of Fort Hood. Covering roughly 340 square miles, it was one of the biggest military bases in the world. So since its opening in 1942, Killeen has been a military town through and through. Many people who live there have a connection to Fort Hood.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, interestingly, after his promotion, in May of 2009, the FBI fined Nadal's online personal blog, where he wrote, If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard, that would be considered a strategic victory. They also saw that the person who posted it was named Nadal Hassan, but they couldn't confirm that he was the one who had posted it.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
So, once again, nothing ever came from it. Nadal was free to continue serving in the military. And on July 15th, 2009, He finally arrived in Fort Hood, Texas. Once there, Nadal moved into a rundown apartment that he found in the classified ads, called Casa del Norte. He paid his landlord $2,050 up front, covering his entire six-month lease.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He also told the landlord that no one was ever allowed inside his apartment if he wasn't home. But from there, he settled into apartment number nine, a one-bedroom, 650-square-foot living space. Interestingly, he also didn't furnish his apartment. There was no couch, no dining room table, and no real bed.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
In fact, Nadal opted to sleep on an air mattress, and he ate his meals at a small fold-out card table that he had covered with a white tablecloth. In the middle of the room, he had a prayer rug and a small stack of shelves in the corner where he kept a few books. Nadal was living out a minimalistic life at his new apartment in Killeen, Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Now, the apartment was off base, so he had to walk to work every day, which isn't really ideal. And strangely enough, Nidal was making a good amount of money at the time, so he definitely could have afforded a nicer apartment. But at that time, he was donating about $20,000 to $30,000 a year to various Islamic charities.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And it's been reported that these charities were actually funding terrorist organizations. So, a large chunk of Nidal's salary was going towards that.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And for decades, the base not only helped their local economy, but the economy in Texas as a whole. Texas Comptroller Glenn Hegar stated, The tradition of military service is long in our great state, and our respect for those who serve is enduring.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
For the next few weeks, Nadal would go back to Guns Galore and purchase more boxes of ammunition, additional magazines, and a red and green laser sight for $275 a piece. Nadal specifically liked the fact that the FN-57's expandable magazines could hold 20 to 30 bullets. When asked why he wanted the expandable magazine, Nadal simply said that he hated wasting his time reloading at the gun range.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
These installations are critical to both our national security and to the Texas economy, generating an overall economic output of more than $150 billion. These installations are also vibrant and dynamic partners in the community. supporting not just business and industry, but also schools, charities, youth sports, and cultural events.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Next, Nadal purchased a membership at a local gun range called Stan's Shooting Range. A few times per week, Nadal would practice at the gun range, purchasing a few silhouette targets at a time and aiming at the torsos and heads. One of the co-owners, John Choates, noticed the accuracy of Nadal's headshots and would later say that he hit between 80-90% of the shots.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Surprisingly, Nadal's neighbors would say that although he was quiet and introverted, when he did speak, he was pleasant and friendly. One even went as far as to say that Nadal would have given anyone the shirt off of his back. Neighbor Willie Bell said, The first day he moved in, he offered to give me a ride to work. He'd give you the shoes and shirt and pants off him if you needed it.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nicest guy you'd want to meet. But no one knew what was brewing beneath the surface. On the outside, Nidal Hasan was a very quiet and introverted man, who kept to himself. But on the inside, he was an angry, radicalized Muslim who had been inspired by extremist Anwar al-Awlaki. During his time in Killeen, Nidal was trying to find his place in the Islamic community.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
But even the members at the mosque found him to be strange. In September 2009, Nadal got lucky and befriended an 18-year-old Muslim convert named Dwayne Reasoner. Dwayne was known to frequent jihadist websites on the internet under the username Ukulpukul. And for a few months, Nadal would serve as a type of mentor to Dwayne.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Some would even consider them to be friends, which was pretty rare for Nadal. The two often ate dinner together at the Golden Corral restaurant.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
The US military and the men and women who serve are a key part of what makes Texas the greatest state in the nation.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Good morning, my fellow colleagues. I had an issue that came up and I thought the answer to my question would be helpful to all of us writing MEBs. During a number of encounters, I've come across situations where the soldier expresses guilt slash anger about events that can be quite disturbing. I happened to be at Mr. Manuel's legal consultant office with Dr. Shahan for another case.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Since I was there, I asked about one of our soldiers complaining slash having guilt about our troops pouring 50 gallons of fuel in the Iraqi water supply as revenge for some adverse events that occurred. He stated that that was a war crime, and if I gave that information to him, he would have to report it. He subsequently gave me numbers to contact to pursue this. I called the DSJA, Lt. Col.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Febba, who couldn't give me an answer at that particular time. However, his eventual response will be beneficial to all of us writing MEBs or encountering similar situations. Nadal Hassan, all praises and thanks go to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of all the worlds.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice, no topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories representing you people with facts telling you the story walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with murder in america and then letting the listener decide what they think anyways you should definitely give it a listen it's called the conspiracy files the links are in the description of this show and you can find it on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and now let's get back to our story
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Major Hassan has been a significant addition to the psychiatric staff. He has taken the mission of MED and additional patient care. He has enthusiastically jumped into his role as provider and administrative physician. He is learning his new administrative duties and will be a significant contributor in the future.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
He has unlimited potential for advancement and leadership and should be groomed for those roles. Promote now and select for intermediate level education and residence. Below the statement it read, soldier is unavailable for signature.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
It's around this time when Nadal went to a strip club called Stars, and while there he struck up a conversation with his favorite stripper named Paige. He talked with her about his deployment and how unhappy he was about it. Then, during a private nude dance with her in the VIP room, he started asking Paige a bunch of questions like, Why did she become a stripper? Did she have any children?
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Did she enjoy the lifestyle? Paige would later say that Nadal seemed to prefer blonde women, and, He wasn't too loud like some of our customers, or sleazy. He didn't try to take us home, and he was respectful. It was also around this time when Nadal sent a cryptic email to his brother.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
In it, he gave him specific instructions on what to do with his money and property in the event he was killed in the Middle East. The email read, In the event that I am incapacitated or not able to use my money slash property, i.e. captured by the enemy, please donate my money slash property to the poor as soon as possible. Use your judgment, but you know I'm trying to maximize my rewards.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
If I happen to die, obviously split it according to the Islamic inheritance law and give the maximum allowable amount to a charity, Sadaka, Jiraya, etc. I think it's one third of my wealth. I'm not aware of any psychiatrists that have died in Iraq slash Afghanistan by enemy fire. However, it's always good to be prepared.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Later that evening, Nadal prayed at the mosque and then asked his friend, Duane Reasoner, to accompany him to a fish dinner at the Golden Corral. Like we mentioned, the two had grown close over the last few months and had talked a lot about their religion. However, during this dinner, Nadal started lecturing Duane, telling him to never join the military. Then, once dinner was over,
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Both Nadal and Duane went back to apartment 9. The manager of Nadal's apartment, Alice Thompson, would later say that when she saw that Nadal had a visitor, she was surprised. Nadal never had any guests come to visit him. Early the next morning, on November 4th, Nadal woke up early and started giving his neighbors all of his belongings.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
One neighbor named Patricia Villa was given bags of frozen vegetables, boxes of frozen veggie burgers, clothes for her husband, and of course, a copy of the Quran. Nadal was also seen that morning throwing bags of stuff into the apartment's dumpster. Now, Nadal didn't have a lot of stuff to begin with, but he was fully clearing out his apartment.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
When his neighbors asked why he was getting rid of everything, He told him that he was leaving for Afghanistan soon, and he wouldn't need it. Later that night, he even used a paper shredder to destroy all of his important documents, including his medical school diploma.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nidal Malik Hassan was born on September 8, 1970, in Arlington, Virginia. His parents Malik and Nora were Palestinian immigrants who came to America in the 1960s. Nidal was the couple's first child, and a year after his birth, they welcomed a son named Anas Malik.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Once on the road, Nadal made his way to the Darnall Medical Center to pick up his deployment paperwork. But as we already know, he had no plans on actually going to the Middle East. It's suspected that the real reason he went by the office that day was to see Lieutenant Colonel Ben Phillips, the one who made the decision to send him to Afghanistan.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
However, to Nadal's dismay, Lieutenant Colonel Ben Phillips wasn't there. he had taken a vacation and wouldn't be back until the following week. Nadal's colleagues said that when he heard this information, he was furious, demanding to know where Lieutenant Colonel Ben Phillips was located. And from here, he quickly marched over to his office, sat down at his desk, and left Phillips a voicemail.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And while he waited for a call back, Nadal decided to browse the internet for jihadist articles. It seems as if he was looking for an inspiration.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Together, the family of four would move into a small apartment on Lancelot Lane in Roanoke, and their goal was to raise their children with a typical American upbringing. They wanted to fit in here. So, every year, they celebrated Christmas, went to birthday parties, and they tried their hardest not to speak Arabic to each other.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. We are really going to be exploring Fort Hood in depth over the next month or so. We are doing episodes on another infamous true crime case that occurred there and a string of bizarre accidents and suicides and deaths that can be attributed to the fort.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
There's definitely something going on there. I have my theories, but I'm going to hold those. Close to my chest for now. If you like the show and you want to hear part two, go sign up for our Patreon because part two is going to be posted immediately. If you haven't joined us on Patreon yet, I highly suggest that you do if you want to help support the show.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
On Patreon, we have every single episode of the show early and ad free. So you get early access to the episodes with none of those pesky ads that people don't seem to like. And in addition, there's tons of bonus content on there. Full-length episodes of Murder in America featuring both Courtney and I, exactly like the ones that are on our main feed.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
So if you sign up today, you can instantly get access to the over 100 bonus episodes that are there on the Patreon. Thank you to everybody that's joined us on there. We really appreciate the support. And as always, don't forget to leave us a five-star review wherever you're listening to this podcast. And follow us on Instagram at Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
It seemed as if they truly wanted to leave their Palestinian roots behind so they could be accepted here. Eventually, after the birth of their third son, Yad, their family even adopted American names. Nadal sometimes went by Michael, and Yad went by Eddie. Both parents, Malik and Nora, came to the United States to pursue the American dream.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Anyways, y'all, Courtney and I love everybody so much. And we're so thankful to have everybody out there listening to the show. That's it for this week. And I'll catch you on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
And in 1987, they opened up the Capital Restaurant in the Roanoke City Market. An article in the Roanoke Times stated that the restaurant was a dive beer hall and diner with a bad reputation and a lot of down-and-out regulars.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
a place where patrons enjoyed greasy blue plate specials and sipped on old milwaukees while a jukebox played motown and their hard work paid off eventually through the success of their first restaurant they were able to open more businesses in town including hot dog queen parish grocery and community grocery
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Then in 1995, they even opened their first upscale eatery called Mount Olive Bar and Grill. After 10 years of hard work, Malik and Nora were well-respected throughout the community. They worked nearly every day, paving the way for their family, and it didn't go unnoticed. People in the community described the Hassans as friendly, honest, and hardworking.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Nora was known for keeping things in order, even when customers had a little too much to drink. And if someone couldn't afford to pay, she would never let them leave with an empty stomach.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
After making this decision, Nadal actually moved back home with his parents in Roanoke and enrolled at the Virginia Western Community College. In 1992, he graduated summa cum laude with an associate's degree in science. And from here, he decided to continue his schooling at Virginia Tech.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
which is, ironically, the site of the 2007 mass shooting that we've previously discussed here on this podcast. But back in 1992, Nidal Hasan was a new student at Virginia Tech majoring in biochemistry with a minor in chemistry and biology. And once again, he proved to be a hardworking student.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
That semester, he even approached his biochemistry professor, Dr. George E. Bunce, and asked if he could work with him in his research lab for extra credit. Ultimately, his professor agreed, but he wasn't the easiest person to work with.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
In the book titled Death on Base, The Fort Hood Massacre, Dr. Bunce remembered Nadal's time at the lab and stated, Usually students begin undergraduate research as juniors.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
but students in good standing academically were allowed to begin as freshmen or sophomores i remember him being quiet and respectful in his initial meeting with me i allowed him to work on a research project that was part of a larger program after a month or so of work his lab instructor catherine simon complained to me that nadal was not using good technique and as a consequence many of the cultures were becoming contaminated with bacteria worse she said that he was not cooperative in taking her advice on how to improve
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
I called Nadal into my office and told him that he would have to accept Ms. Simon's directions or we would have to remove him from the project. As I recall, he grudgingly agreed to finish the semester. He chose not to re-enroll in this activity with me for the next semester. Nadal was from a Palestinian refugee family.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
I attributed his attitude as a part of his cultural reluctance to taking direction from a female. And his lab instructor, Catherine Simon, agreed. She said that although Nadal was interested in the work at the lab, he was reluctant to take directions from her. After she spoke with Dr. Bunce about Nadal's attitude, she stated, Nadal came back to the lab and he was very confrontational with me.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
It was very much that he would not take responsibility.
Murder In America
EP. 187: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 1)
Anwar al-Awlaki was born on April 21, 1971, in Las Cruces, New Mexico, so he was a United States citizen. But when Anwar was just 7 years old, he and his family would move to Yemen, and they would stay there for the next 13 years. However, in 1991, Anwar decided to come back to the United States, where he enrolled at Colorado State University.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Brent recalled that during the movie he saw something thrown across the room, followed by that hissing noise. And there was a brief moment of silence before all hell broke loose.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Sie hielten auch die Momente ab, bis sich ihre Leben für immer verändert hätten. Denn nur ein paar Minuten nach dem Film stand ein Mann, der nach vorne sass, aufsteht und aus dem Exit aus dem Theater geht. Momente später kam er zurück durch das Ausgangsgebäude, das er geöffnet hatte. Except this time, he was wearing a gas mask, body armor head to toe, and he was holding a shotgun.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jessica wurde in ihr Knie geschossen und sofort wurde Brint's Training eingeführt. Es scheint, er hatte gerade seine EMT-Kurse beendet, also wusste er, was er tun sollte in dieser Situation. Das erste, was er tun musste, war, die Blutung zu stoppen. Also hat er Druck auf Jessica's Wunde geübt. Aber mit den Kugeln, die sich um sie herum fliegen, war es nicht viel mehr, was er tun konnte.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Brint wusste, dass er Hilfe brauchen musste.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
With more bullets flying in their direction, Brent quickly called 911. However, he was met with a busy line as hundreds of calls were pouring in. So from here, he turned his attention back to Jessica. But this time, he noticed she was no longer screaming.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Auf dem Weg raus sagte Brent, er sah Schildkröten über dem Boden. Es gab Leute, die schreien, dass sie erschossen wurden. Er wusste, dass er sie nicht helfen konnte, aber er rief sie aus, um ihnen Druck auf ihre Schmerzen zu geben, und diese Hilfe war auf dem Weg. Endlich würde er es sicher machen, aber er wusste, dass seine Freundin Jessica weg war.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Also, als er draußen war, hat Brent Jessica' Mutter angerufen, um ihr zu wissen, was passiert ist. Sie wurde sechs Mal erschossen. Nach dem vorige Monat überlebtes Massenmord, wurde Jessica in der Aurora Theater verurteilt.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Der nächste, der in Theater 9 erschossen und getötet wurde, war 23-jähriger Michaela Medick. Ein Memorial sagte, Michaela sei patient, kind und entlastet all das Gute, das dieser Welt zu bieten hat. Alles, was sie wusste, würde sie als ein Enigma nennen, einfach zu befreien und nicht einfach zu schuldig zu sein.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Some people in the crowd noticed him, others didn't. But soon enough, all 400 people inside Theater 9 would stop watching the movie before them. And instead, they would fight for their lives. So this is the story of the Dark Knight Rises mass shooting. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Seine komische Natur drückte dich zu ihr und ihre Stubbornheit machte dich sie respektieren. Sie war immer ein Hörer und eine Stärke, um ihre eigene Reise durchzuführen. Damals war sie Studentin an der Aurora Community College. Sie war auch Fotograferin und Trägerin, die Abenteuer liebte. Während ihres Todes war sie extra Stunden am Arbeiten, um einen Solo-Trip nach Indien zu finanzieren.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber diese Chance wurde von ihr entfernt. Michaela war am Theater am Abend mit sechs ihrer Freunde. Sie kamen früh auf, um gute Sitzpunkte zu bekommen, und endeten am Top des Theaters. Als die Schüsse am Abend klingelten, konnten ihre Freunde fliehen, aber kurz bevor sie das taten, bemerkten sie Michaela, die auf den Boden geraten ist.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Sie wussten, dass sie getötet wurde, aber für Stunden nach dem Schuss rannte ihre Familie zu verschiedenen Krankenhäusern, um zu sehen, ob sie es geschafft hat. Aber sie hat es nicht geschafft. Michaela hatte direkt in ihrem Kopf getötet. Ein Schuss, der sie fast sofort töten würde. Also hat sie es niemals aus dem Theater gemacht, die Nacht. Sie war tot auf dem Anruf.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nun, wir sind noch nur Sekunden vor dem Schuss. Theater 9 ist in vollem Chaos, als der Schütze weiter schießt in Richtung der Gruppe von Menschen. Und der nächste, den er schießt, ist 27-jähriger John Laramere. John war ein Mitglied der Navy. Er wurde als eine alte Seele beschrieben, er hatte einen guten Sinn für Humor und er liebte die Menschen in seinem Leben.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Er war am Film am Abend mit seinen Freunden und seiner Freundin Julia. Er war so aufgeregt, dass er und Julia vor dem Film zu Wal-Mart gingen, um Batman-Tüten, eine Kappe und eine Maske zu kaufen. Julia erinnerte sich, dass kurz nachdem der Teergas-Kanister gedrängt wurde, jemand schrie aus, Poison, und dann rippelte Terror durch das Publikum.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Sie sagte ABC, Quote, fast sofort hat es das ganze Theater gefüllt. Deine Lungen beginnen zu brennen. Du fühlst dich, als ob deine Augen und Nase schmerzen, obwohl sie nicht schmerzen." Jetzt waren Julia und John nahe der Schütze, um die ersten Schüsse zu sehen. Und sofort hat John Julias Kopf auf den Boden gedrückt.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Er hat sie geäußert, sie zu halten, und er hat ihr Körper mit seinem eigenen geschützt. Und auch als er versucht hat, sie zu schützen, hat er einen anderer seiner Freunde gefangen. um ihn auch unter den Boden zu drücken. Julia erinnert sich an den Geruch des Theaterflusses, der Zementflasche und der Klamotten.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Sie erinnert sich an die Explosionen um sie herum, so laut, dass sie die Mehrheit ihres Hörens verloren hat. Aber am meisten, erinnert sie sich an die steile Druck von John, die sie aus der Liste des Feuers auslöst. Dann hat sich auf einen Punkt die Feuerwehr aufgehängt. John hat sich über die Säule gelegt, um zu sehen, was da los war. Und dann wurde er erschrocken.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Julia würde später sagen, er habe mich festgehalten und ich konnte fühlen, als er sich entspannt hat. Ich denke, das war, als er gestorben ist. Nach dem Angriff, die Gruppe, die er mitgebracht hat, hat sich entschieden, es zu verfolgen und sie werden John nicht hinterlassen. Sie haben seinen Körper auf den Stühlen geführt, aber es war dann, als mehr Angriffe in ihre Richtung kamen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
John war an diesem Punkt tot, also hatten sie keine andere Wahl, als ihn zu verlassen. Sie endeten ihn auf den Stiefeln nahe der Vorderseite anzupacken. Und zu diesem Zeitpunkt war John bereits tot. Es wurde später gesagt, dass fast jedes Organ in seinem Körper in der Feuerwehr zerbrochen wurde. Aber dank seines Versuches würde Julia und der Rest ihres Gruppes letztendlich überleben.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
And I'm Colin Brown.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Julia würde später sagen, Er war ein und ein Billion für mich und für viele Leute. Ich hoffe, dass sein Heroismus und Bravour für immer gesegnet und erinnert werden können." Hier war seine Mutter mit den Reporterinnen zu sprechen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Während all dessen, bemerkte der Anwalt Leute, die nach den Ausflügen fliegen, also schießt er sie. Er würde später sagen, dass er Leute schießt, die nach den Ausflügen fliegen, um sicherzustellen, dass andere nicht folgen würden. Drei dieser Leute, die versucht haben, nach Sicherheit zu fliegen, waren aus der Mora-Familie.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Angiot Mora, seine Frau Rita und ihr junges Sohn Patria waren am Abend im Theater, als die Schüsse begonnen haben. Und sofort wurde ihr Fluginstinkt eingestiegen. Aber als sie nach dem Ausflug fliegen, schießte der Anwalt seinen Pfeil in ihre Richtung. All of them had been shot. Rita dropped to the ground. Her husband stopped to help her.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
She told him to go on without her, but he wasn't going to leave her behind. So he hoisted her onto his back and kept going. Their 14-year-old son, Patria, had also been shot. But even so, he stopped to help an injured man exit the theater. Once they were all outside, Angiotte looked at his son and saw a hole in his back. Even after being shot several times, he was still helping others.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Glücklicherweise überlebte ihre gesamte Familie den Schuss.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Innerhalb des Theaters würde ein weiteres Freundeskreis aufgenommen werden. Alex Sullivan, oder Sully, wie seine Freunde ihn genannt haben, war dort, um seinen 28. Geburtstag zu feiern, was eigentlich seine Tradition war. Jedes Jahr feierte er seinen Geburtstag bei den Filmen. Aber dieses Jahr war sehr speziell, weil Sully absolut Superheldenfilme liebte.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Er war derjenige, der aufgestanden war und die Superman-Pose vor dem Film begonnen hat. Er und seine Gruppe waren 7 Stunden zu früh da, um gute Sitzungen zu bekommen. Und sie endeten auf der 12. Reihe, direkt da in der Mitte. Neben Sully war seine Frau Cassie. Und in der Reihe waren 10 ihrer anderen Freunde, die so aufgeregt waren für die nächste Nacht. Um 11 Uhr hat Sully gebetet,
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Oh Mann, eine Stunde bis zum Film. Es wird das beste Geburtstag jemals sein. Auf seinem Facebook-Post hat er gesagt, Hashtag TheDarkNightRises. OMG. Counting down till it starts. Can't wait. Going to be the best birthday ever. Jetzt, kurz bevor der Film begann, hat Sully tatsächlich Spots mit seinem Freund, Jacqueline Fry, getradet.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Und diese sehr einfache Entscheidung würde ihr die Schuld der Überlebenden verlassen und sie später in Tränen bringen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Shortly after the shooting started, their group found themselves right in the middle of the gunfire. Sully was shot directly in his heart, killing him instantly.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Alex Sullivan war bekannt, dass er enthusiastisch und positiv war. Seine Frau Cassie hat allen erzählt, dass Sully ein Natürlicher bei der Beziehung war. Er war großartig im Kommunizieren, war immer kindisch und unglaublich patient. Die beiden hatten ein Jahr vorher verheiratet und mussten ihren ersten Geburtstag nur zwei Tage nach dem Schuss feiern.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Tragisch war Cassie an diesem Tag allein, in Schock und Mord. Für sein Geburtstag hat seine Familie von ihm sechs Stunden lang Geschichten von ihm erzählt.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Sully's friend Jacqueline, the one who switched spots with him, was also hit with gunfire.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Während sie auf dem Boden war, waren sie und ihre Freunde alle zusammen. Eine Freundin rief 911 an, eine andere legte ein Tornadier auf ihr Bein. Es war Chaos. Seht euch das an, es war immer noch dunkel da drüben. Das einzige Licht, das aus dem Film kam, spielte immer noch auf dem Bildschirm. Es gab auch Licht aus den Flaschen des Schützers. Jacqueline sagte, dass sie auf ihrem Stomach lag.
Murder In America
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Das einzige, was zwischen ihr und den Schützern war, waren die Säge vor ihr. And he continued shooting.
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Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
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So, if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on Instagram, Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
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But let's get back to the story. As she laid there, Jacqueline said she remembered thinking that these were probably her last moments. But luckily, she would make it out alive. However, she would later say that as she left the theater, there were bodies everywhere.
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Another friend in that group of 12 was Farah Sudani. She said that as they all got down on the ground, she suddenly heard a pause in the gunfire. So she decided to stand up and make a run for it. However, at that very moment, the gunman turned his rifle towards her and he fired.
Murder In America
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Farrah sagte, dass sie sich von dort zurückgezogen hat und versucht hat, ruhig zu bleiben. Ihr Freund Mike kam zu ihrer Seite und hat ihr Intestin und ihr Körper gehalten. Aber es war schwer. Sein Freund Mike hatte auch getötet und es gab überall Blut. Aber hier ist, was danach passiert ist.
Murder In America
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But as she did, she could hear everything going on around her.
Murder In America
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Glücklicherweise überlebte Farrah ihre Schmerzen nach sieben furchtbaren Arbeiten. Aber nicht jeder war so glücklich. Der nächste, der in Theater 9 verletzt wurde, war 24-jähriger Alex Tevez. Alex war an dieser Nacht mit seiner Freundin Amanda und seinem Freund Craig da.
Murder In America
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Musik Musik Musik Musik
Murder In America
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Unglaublich genug sagte Amanda, dass sie eine seltsame Gefühle hatte, die sie an dieser Nacht hatte, aber sie wusste nicht wirklich, warum. Und dann fingen die Schüsse im Theater an zu fliegen. Sie sagte ABC, I was really, really confused at first about what was going on. So confused. But Alex didn't even hesitate. Because I sat there for a minute, not knowing what was going on.
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And he held me down and he covered my head. And he said, shh, stay down, it's okay. Shh, just stay down. So I did. Alex schlug Amanda mit seinem Körper, als das Theater mit den schrecklichen Schottenblästen, Schrecken und Schrecken der Verliebten, die ihre Familie und Freunde vor ihren Augen verletzt haben, klingelte.
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Ihr Freund Craig, der mit ihnen zusammengekommen war, hielt sich mit den beiden von ihnen. Irgendwann schaute Amanda an ihre Hände. Und sie sah etwas, das sie nie vergessen würde.
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Next, Amanda turned to their friend Craig. And as soon as she did, she knew exactly why her boyfriend Alex wasn't answering. Craig's face was covered in Alex's blood, flesh and brain matter. Alex had been shot directly in the head. At that moment, Amanda was told to leave the theater, but she didn't want to leave Alex behind.
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Es war um die 18 Minuten nach The Dark Knight Rises und die 400 Leute in Theater 9 waren komplett im Film vor ihnen. Selbst so früh, als der Film suspensiv und witzig war, was die Batman-Filme bekannt sind. Wenn man sich die Leute angeschaut hätte, würde man sehen, dass alle Gesichter von der Kamera illuminiert waren.
Murder In America
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Leider war Amanda niemals mit Alex zusammengekommen. Er war einer der zwölf Verletzten in Theater 9. Er wurde als freundlich, lustig und liebend beschrieben. Er war bereit, sich jeden Teil von sich selbst zu helfen, um anderen zu helfen.
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Er hat von der Universität in Denver mit einem Master in Psychologie graduiert, den er verwendet hat, um Beratungs-Sessionen mit verletzten Jugendlichen zu führen. Er bietet Krisenberatungs-Sessionen, individuelle und Gruppensessionen. Er und seine Freundin Amanda hatten gerade zusammengeheiratet und er wollte bald vorangehen.
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Amanda sagte, wir können nicht mal eine Stunde ohne einander schmerzhaft verpasst werden. Ich denke, ihr Lieb und der Schmerz, den sein Tod in seinem Wachstum verlassen hat, werden von diesem Faktum beendet. Ein Jahr nach dem Schuss hatte Amanda kein einziges Objekt, das er in ihrem Wohnzimmer hielt, gewechselt. Seine Kleidung war noch in einer Schale auf dem Boden.
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Seine Schuhe waren noch in den Körnern, ungepackt, und seine Wasserbottel war auf dem Konto, genau dort, wo er sie an der Nacht des Schusses hielt. Sie hat OWN Network in einer Reihe von Interviews erzählt.
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Bald nach dem Massaker nahm Amanda Alexs letztes Name als ihr eigenes, um ihre Beziehung und die Richtung, in die sie gegangen wäre, anzuhören.
Murder In America
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An diesem Punkt sind wir noch wenige Minuten vor dem Schuss und die Anwesenden haben weiter mit Menschen im Theater 9 gefeuert. Der nächste Verbrecher wäre 27-jähriger Matt McQuinn, der mit seiner Freundin Samantha und ihrem Bruder war. Samantha würde später sagen, dass sie, als die Schüsse zum ersten Mal ausgingen, sie dachte, es seien nur Feuerwerke.
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Samantha sagte, dass sie, als sie heruntergingen, Matt zu hören hat, dass es schmerzt. Sie fühlte dann eine eigene Schmerzen. Als sie sich an ihr Knie angeschaut hat, sah sie Blut. Also sind sie zusammen auf dem Boden heruntergekommen. Matt hat sich über ihr gehofft.
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An diesem Punkt hat Samantha bemerkt, dass sie ziemlich stark blutig war, also hat sie ihr Sweatshirt gegen ihr Knie gedreht, um das Blut zu stoppen.
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Sie haben ihr Popcorn gegessen, mit ihren Augen nach vorne und zurück, als sie die Charaktere in Aktion gesehen haben. Jemand in dieser Raum hatte das sehr Visuelle. As the hundreds of people were watching the movie, he was watching them.
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Samantha sagte, dass die Schüsse an den Menschen, die am Rennen waren, angefangen haben, also wusste sie, dass es nicht sicher war, sich aufzunehmen und zu verlassen. Samantha erinnerte sich daran, dass der Film noch im Hintergrund spielte. Sittend direkt in der Sitzung vor ihr, sah sie jemanden mit einem Schusswund am Kopf. Dann schaute sie zurück auf ihren Freund Matt.
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Samantha hat es endlich geschafft. Sie hatte gehofft, dass ihr Freund in Ordnung wäre, dass er ins Krankenhaus geholt würde und sie später verabschiedet werden würden. Aber das ist nicht passiert. Matt hatte drei Mal geschossen. Nach der Nacht, als Samantha von ihrer Kniechirurgie aufgewacht wurde, hat sie gelernt, dass er verabschiedet ist.
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Matt liebte Golf, liebte Musik und war unglaublich nah mit seiner Familie und Samanthas. Sie waren drei Jahre zusammen. Und vor dem Schuss sind die beiden nach Colorado geflogen, um die nächste Phase ihres Lebens zusammen zu starten. Aber das würde alles ändern.
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Nebenan war ein weiteres Paar, Jansen Young und ihr Freund, 26-jähriger Jonathan Blunk. Die beiden hatten geplant, diesen Film für Monate zu sehen. Sie sind dort Stunden vorher gekommen, damit sie gute Sitze finden konnten. Jansen sagte später, dass sobald die Waffen die Schmerzen verursachten, Jonathan in Aktion kam.
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Jonathan's frantic words mingled with the sound of shotgun blasts, and he quickly pushed her underneath the seats they had just been sitting in. He covered her body with his own. Jansen said she closed her eyes and hungered down, clinging to her boyfriend. In diesem Moment fühlte sie Schrapnel explodieren, und sie riechte das metallische Blut. Als sie endlich aufhörte, war John noch neben ihr.
Murder In America
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Inside Theater 9, there were rows and rows of seats that stretched all the way up to the back of the room. And on either side of those rows were two exits that would lead you back to the lobby. But soon enough, those exits would be blocked off. One by tear gas, and the other by a man holding a shotgun. Some moviegoers would later say that the man looked like he was a character from Call of Duty.
Murder In America
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Aber mit ihrem Herz zu sinken, bemerkte sie, dass er nicht atmet. Jonathan wurde mit Kugeln in seinem Kopf und Körper getötet. Die Kugeln kamen von hinten, um ihn in die Schulter zu schießen. Die anderen kamen in seine mittlere Schulter, um die meisten hohen Organe zu schießen.
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Born in Reno, Nevada, Jonathan was a man on a mission. He joined the Navy as soon as he could with the goal of becoming a Navy SEAL. To reach that goal, he privately took EMT class and was training to become a police officer in order to have better chances of becoming a SEAL. But he wasn't just a career man.
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He had two children from an early marriage, whom he loved dearly, and he always made it a point to show up inside the home, not just outside it. He cleaned, did the dishes, and did mechanical repairs. Seine Freundin, Jansen, sagte, er sei der größte Mann, den ich jemals gekannt habe. Die beiden haben sich getroffen, als Jansen ihn als Sicherheitsbehörde am Mall beobachtete.
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Nach fünf Stunden Arbeit, um ihn zu beobachten, hat sie ihm ein Stück Papier mit ihrer Nummer geschliffen. Nach einem Jahr nach dem Schuss wurde Jansen Johns Produkte gegeben und in seinem Wallet war die Note, die sie ihm gegeben hat. He had kept it on his person all that time. Before the shooting, the two had been talking for quite a while about tying the knot.
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As the days had carried on and their love grew, it seemed like their dream wedding was closer than ever. But then the shooting happened and Jonathan never made it out. He left behind two daughters. Jansen would later say that she was the one who had to inform them of their father's death. Heartbreakingly, one of his girls responded, Daddy promised me he would be here for my birthday. Is he
Murder In America
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Diese Original-Serie wurde geschrieben und gedreht von Nyasha Hatendi und präsentiert im immersiven Dolby Atmos. In der Show wird die Wallys-Familie in Zimbabwe zu einem Luxus-Game-Reserv in Zimbabwe ein lebendiger Schmerz, als Dashaun ungewissermaßen den gelassenen Boden zerstört und Bimbirwi entdeckt, eine wütende Entität, die seit Jahrhunderten von kolonialer Oppression geboren wurde.
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As possessed wildlife and shape-shifting horrors close in, Deshawn must confront not only the supernatural threat, but also the horrors of his own past to save what remains of his family. Honestly, I love the plot of this show. And if it sounds like it's going to get incredibly intense, let me tell you, it is. A plot like this combines all my favorite elements of a thriller.
Murder In America
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You have the supernatural horrors. Listen to Sacrilege, Curse of the Mbirwi now on Audible. Just go to audible.com slash sacrilege. And now let's get back to our show. Coming?
Murder In America
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Sitting next to Jansen and Jonathan was Pierce O'Farrell and his friend Carrie. Here is what he recalled of the shooting.
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He was wearing a bulletproof vest, bullet-resistant leggings, a bullet-resistant throat protector, a groin protector, tactical gloves, a helmet and a gas mask. And in that moment, he was standing at the bottom right hand corner of the room by the movie screen. But most of the people there were so into the movie, they didn't even notice him. However,
Murder In America
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Aber bald fühlte Pierce die Schüsse in seinem Körper.
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Trotz der extremen Verletzungen würde Pierce überleben. Viele von den Überlebenden sagten, dass sie die ganze Zeit über Böden steigen mussten, während sie den Weg aus dem Theater machten. Sie sagten, dass es Popcorn auf den Flüssen gab, sowie Schuhe, Menschenbrüche und Blut.
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Einige Menschen, die nicht sogar verletzt wurden, sagten, dass sie in Menschenblut von dem Massaker geblieben waren, nur aus dem Blutspattern der Menschen um sie herum. Ein weiterer Überlebender wurde Petra Hogan genannt. Sie war dort mit ihren Freunden Ethan Rodriguez-Torrent und Stephen Barton. Petra hat tatsächlich ins Schlafzimmer geflogen, als der Film angefangen hat.
Murder In America
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Und sie ist auf eine Nachtmarke gestorben.
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Sie würden bald etwas fliegen sehen, das über den Raum fliegt. Es war ein Teergas-Kanister. In diesem Moment schlug das gesamte Zimmer zusammen und schlug ihre Hände um, um zu sehen, was da los war. Viele Leute da sagten, dass sie dachten, dass das irgendein Prank war. Ein Teenager, der mit seinen Freunden umgeht. Eine Person rief sogar an den Mann aus.
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Warnung! Der folgende Podcast ist nicht für alle Audienzen zuständig. Wir gehen in großem Detail mit jedem Fall, den wir beobachten und tun unser Bestes, um die Zuschauer noch tiefer in die Geschichten zu bringen, indem wir störende Audio- und Soundeffekte nutzen.
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Dann schlug sie wieder aus, ein bisschen später kam sie wieder.
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Petra sagte, dass die erste Sache, die sie gedacht hatte, war, ob sie ihnen helfen könnte. Jedoch, nach einer näheren Aussicht, war es offensichtlich, dass sie tot waren. Als Petra das Theater verlassen hatte, bemerkte sie, dass ihr Freund Ethan mit ihr auf dem Weg war.
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Was machst du? Wir versuchen, den Film zu sehen.
Murder In America
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Petra wusste es nicht an der Zeit, aber sie wurde in den Arm und die Nase geschossen, aber sie würde letztendlich überleben. Ein weiterer Teil in der Theaternacht war Aline Young und ihr Freund Stephanie. Als das Schießen begann, stürzte sie sich auf den Boden und schluchzte. Aber hier ist, was mit ihr und Stephanie passiert ist, als sie auch kam.
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Viele Leute sagten, dass sie, auch nachdem sie diesen Mann in der Runde der Wohnung gesehen haben, mit Taktik-Geräten, noch nicht denken konnten, dass sie in Gefahr waren. Einige Leute dachten sogar, dass es eine Art Promotion für den Batman-Film war. Aber bald genug hörten alle diesen bestimmten Hiss-Geräusch, der aus dem Tiergas-Kanister kam. Und in Sekunden begann der Gas den Raum zu füllen.
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At first we thought they were firecrackers or fireworks. And at that point we realized something was not right in the movie theater.
Murder In America
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Aber nachdem sie draußen waren, sahen sie absoluten Chaos. Es gab Leute, die überall rannten. Blutige Gefühle, die überall auf dem Boden liegen. Es war eine so schreckliche Szene, dass Mikaela und ihre Freunde tatsächlich wieder in Theater 8 zurückgingen.
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Innerhalb von Theater 9 war eine andere Familie, die dort mit Kindern war. Es waren Jameson Tausz, Ashley Moser, ihre Tochter, sechsjährige Veronika, und ihr 13-jähriges Bruder, Kaylin Bailey. Ashley hatte gerade ein Ultrasound bekommen, um ihr ungeborenes Baby zu sehen. Sie war überrascht und ihre Tochter Veronika war auch so aufgeregt, eine kleine Schwester zu haben.
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Es war ein schwieriges Jahr für ihre Familie. Veronikas Vater hatte vor kurzem seinen Kampf mit Leukämie verloren, aber Ashleys Geburtstag fühlte sich wie ein neuer Start und die Vermutung von Hoffnung in einem herausfordernden Zeitpunkt. In den Filmen zu sehen, dass ein Mittwoch-Premiere gespielt wird, fühlte sich wie der perfekte Weg, um zu feiern. die von allen ihren Liebsten verbrannt waren.
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Nun, Ashley würde später sagen, dass sie nicht bemerkt hatte, dass die Batman-Filme so gewaltig waren, sonst hätte sie ihre sechsjährige Tochter nicht an die Ausstellung gebracht. In der Tat, als die Vorstellung begann, bemerkte sie, dass es wahrscheinlich nicht eine gute Idee war, für sie dort zu sein, aber es gab keine Rückkehr. Nun, Jameson, der mit ihnen war,
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Es war in diesem Moment, wo sie wussten, dass dies kein Prank war. Das war kein Promotionsstunt für den Film. Und was danach passieren würde, würde das bestätigen. Nach dem Anflug nach dem linken Ausflug, hat der Schütze seinen Schotten aufgehängt, ihn in die Gruppe der Leute gelegt und den Trigger gedreht.
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Er sagte, während des Films habe er sich daran erinnert, dass die Gaskanne durch die Luft fliegt. Und hier ist, was danach passiert ist.
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Jetzt sitzt bei Jameson die Geimpfte, Ashley Moser. Und als die Schüsse durch den Theater explodierten, hat Ashley sich um ihre sechsjährige Tochter Veronica gehalten. In dem Prozess wurde Ashley zweimal im Abdomen und im Nacken geschossen. Hier ist, was sie sich erinnert hat.
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Als Ashley verletzt wurde, fiel sie auf den Boden. Ihr Körper lag direkt über ihrer Tochter Veronica. Aber furchtbar, sie fühlte keine Bewegung unter ihr. Ashley war selbst so verletzt, dass sie nicht mehr von Veronica aufstehen konnte. Und dann... Alles ging schwarz. Jetzt saß neben ihnen ihre Schwester, 13-jährige Katelyn Bailey. Sie hat nur geschaut, wie Ashley geschossen wird.
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Und als sie dort lag, bemerkte sie, dass 6-jährige Veronica auch geschossen wurde. Also, in einem versuchten Versuch, ihre Familie zu retten, hat Katelyn 911 angerufen. Hier ist dieser 911-Ruf, aber Triggerwarnung, es ist sehr schwer zu hören.
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Einer der ersten Menschen, die er fotografiert hat, war der 18-jährige A.J. Boyk. A.J. war ein talentierter Künstler, der sein Leben mit seinen Kreationen verbringen konnte. Aber er wollte sich zurückgeben. Er war ehrgeizig, in die Schule zu gehen und ein Kunstlehrer zu werden. Er hat gerade von der Gateway High School graduiert und sollte an der Rocky Mountain College of Art and Design starten.
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Denkt daran, dass wir noch nur Minuten vor dem Schießen sind. Und an diesem Punkt, als der Schütze in den Publikum schießt, schießt sein Pfeil. Und er weiß nicht, was er tun soll, also steigt er in die Halle, um es zu versuchen und es zu reparieren. Aber es funktioniert noch nicht. In der Zwischenzeit nehmen die Leute diese Möglichkeit, direkt vor ihm zu fahren.
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He continues trying to fix the gun, but he ultimately decides to give up, leaving his rifle right there on the floor. Horrifically, it was later found that there were still 218 rounds left inside. Imagine the damage he could have done if it wouldn't have jammed. Now from here, he grabs his Glock, firing at people as they try to run to safety.
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Aber das wurde von ihm in einem Moment entfernt. A.J. hatte die Nacht im Theater mit seiner Freundin gelebt. Kurz bevor der Film, schnappten die beiden ein Foto von sich selbst, lachend in ihren Schuhen. Es war das letzte Foto, das sie jemals zusammen nehmen würden.
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However, he eventually goes back outside, possibly to grab more weapons and supplies. But it's around this time, just three minutes after the shooting started, when first responders arrive on scene. We got another... Als die Offiziere sich auf die Szene gedreht haben, war es wie bei allem, was sie vorher gesehen hatten.
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Die Leute drehten schmerzhafte Freunde und Familienmitglieder aus dem Theater, leaving blood trails all behind. Die Leute riefen, riefen für ihre Leben und begten für Hilfe auf der Straße, in der Rückseite des Parkplatzes. Aber dann sehen die Offiziere einen Mann, der mit Taktikgegenstände steht, neben einem weißen Sedan, der draußen parkiert ist.
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Auf den ersten Blick dachten einige Offiziere, er sei ein Polizist, aber nach einer näheren Beobachtung war er nicht so wie ein Polizist. All of the other first responders were running around helping people and he was just kind of standing there, watching. So that, coupled with the fact that he was wearing a gas mask, showed them that he was likely the shooter.
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At the time, the gunman was leaning up against the car, resting his arms. The officers then noticed a semi-automatic handgun on the top of the car. So from there, they pointed their guns at him and he immediately surrendered.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Seine Freundin sagte später, dass ich während des Films nur eine Silhouette sehen konnte, und es sah so aus, als hätte er Taktik-Geräte, Cargo-Panzen, einen Helmet und eine Waffe zu seinem Rücken. Aber das nächste, was sie wusste, waren Schüsse, die in ihre Richtung fliegen. A.J. wurde mit einem Schottenblast direkt an seinen Kopf getroffen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Zwei Minuten später, um 12.47 Uhr, machen sie endlich ihre Reise.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and the Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events...
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Pädophilie-Ringe, Regierungs-Korruption, Rituals-Sacrifice. Kein Thema ist auf diesem Show unabhängig. Alles, was wir über die Verschwörungstheorien reden, wird mit Fakten beobachtet. Ich veröffentliche Reference-Daten mit jedem einzelnen Episode, den wir machen, damit ihr wisst, dass alles, worüber wir reden, veröffentlicht wurde und real ist.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Es ist ein völlig anderer Art von Show als alles andere, was ihr je gesehen habt über Verschwörungstheorien. Anstatt ein paar Konjunkturen und Theorien, präsentieren wir euch Menschen mit Fakten, erzählen euch die Geschichte, gehen euch durch die Geschichte, so detailliert wie wir es mit Mörder in Amerika tun. Und dann lassen wir den Zuhörer entscheiden, was sie denken.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jedenfalls, ihr solltet es definitiv hören. Es heißt The Conspiracy Files. Die Links sind in der Beschreibung dieses Shows. Und ihr könnt es auf Apple Podcasts, Spotify oder wo auch immer ihr eure Podcasts bekommt. Und jetzt gehen wir zurück zu unserer Geschichte. Nach der Entfernung in Theater 9 können die Offiziere endlich die Lichter aufmachen, den Film ausmachen und den Gefühlen anziehen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Und eines der ersten Dinge, die sie sehen, ist Jameson Toews, der sie für Hilfe gebeten hat.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Einer dieser Anwesenden war Officer Grizzle. Hier ist seine Erklärung, was passiert ist.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Vierzehn Pellets kamen in sein Gehirn, um ihn sofort zu töten. Und sein Freund, der den Schuss überlebt hätte, hat die ganze Sache horrifisch beobachtet, die direkt neben ihr stattfand.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Offizier Grizzle sagte, dass eine der Personen, die er transportierte, Ashley Moser und Jameson waren. Jameson war so überrascht, dass er sechsjährige Veronika hinterlassen musste, dass er fast aus dem Polizistenwagen gelaufen ist.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Trigger-Warnungen von den Geschichten, die wir beobachten, können Verbrechen, Rape, Mord und Offenungen gegen Kinder sein.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Also muss ich nicht nur fahren,
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Now Ashley had been shot several times, so she barely remembers anything from here. Once taken to the hospital, she was told that she was paralyzed and that she had lost her baby. Ashley was obviously devastated. But then she learned that she had lost her other baby as well. Six-year-old Veronica.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nachdem der erste Schuss ausgelöst wurde, brach Theater 9 schnell ins Chaos. Mit Gas, der den Raum füllte, drohten einige Leute auf den Boden. Andere versuchten, nach den Auslösungen zu gehen. Aber die Schüsse fortsetzten. Der nächste, der in den Blast geschossen wurde, war 29-jähriger Jesse Childress. der in Kalifornien geboren wurde. Jesse liebte Ball und Fußball zu spielen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
His body was shaking with so much adrenaline that he couldn't feel anything at all. He didn't know if the little girl in his arms was dead or alive, but he was going to do anything he could to try to save her. Er fuhr aus dem Theater, schlug ihre Körper in seinen Knochen, rief nach Rettung hin und her. Als er draußen fliegte, bemerkte er, dass sie nicht atmet.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Ein Schmerz an ihrem Nacken bestätigte die Wahrheit. Sie war tot, bevor er sie sogar aufgenommen hatte. Veronica Moser war aufgeregt, in die 1. Klasse zu kommen. Sie hatte gerade gelernt, Wochen vor dem Schuss zu schwimmen, und wie wir vorhin erwähnt haben, konnte sie nicht warten, um eine große Schwester zu werden. Sie war bekannt für ihre Aufmerksamkeit, eine Buchwurm, und vor allem freundlich.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jeder, der Veronica kannte, erinnert sich daran, dass sie Leben liebte und alle liebte. Sie hatte keinen besten Freund, weil sie alle in ihrer Klasse als ihre beste Freundin bezeichnete. Sergeant Mike Hawkins könnte all das nicht über Veronica wissen, aber wenn er sich auf ihr Körper angeschaut hat, wusste er, dass die Welt etwas Schöneres und Besonderes verloren hatte.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Verrückt, setzte er sie auf einem Ambulanz-Gerne. Er wusste, dass sie weg war, so wie die medizinische Staffel, aber er konnte sich nicht auf den Boden setzen oder sie auf der Straße verlassen. Das war wichtig für mich, dass sie wussten, dass sie von ihrem Vater genommen wurde und dass...
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Zurück auf die Szene. Die Anwesenden versuchen immer noch, den Verletzten zu helfen. Nach dem Einstieg in Theater 9, kamen die Anwesenden zu einem Paar, namens Caleb und Katie Medley. Katie war neun Monate verheiratet. Bevor der Schuss begann, kamen die beiden zu den Filmen. Sie erwarteten, dass es eine der letzten Abendnächte wäre, bevor das Baby herrschte.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jedoch wäre es letztendlich einer der schlimmsten Nächte ihres Lebens. Kurz nachdem die Fotos im Theater gelangten, schlug Katie über, um zu sehen, dass ihr Manns Gesicht komplett in Blut gefüllt war. Er wurde direkt in sein Auge geschossen. In all dem Schreien und Schreien gab es nichts, was jemand tun konnte. Katie klang zu ihrem Mann, den sie glaubte, sei tot.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber dann sah sie ein bisschen Bewegung. Katie würde später sagen, Quote, Ich habe entschieden, langsam aufzusteigen, und ich sah, dass Caleb tatsächlich atmet. Er war auf all seiner Blut schockiert. Versuchte, die Liebe ihres Lebens und des Vaters ihres Kindes zu retten, begann sie, Wasser über seinen Gesicht zu rühren. in einer Versuchung, das Blut, auf das er schluckte, zu beheben.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Dann, Sekunden später, kamen die ersten Anwesenden ins Theater. Sie erinnern sich später daran, dass Katie an ihrem Manns Seite war, schwebend und mit ihm gebeten, nicht zu sterben. Die Polizei musste sie physisch entfernen, Caleb, und sie aus dem Theater rutschen. Aber ihr Mann zu verlassen, war die schwerste Sache, die sie jemals gemacht hat.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Und während des Schusses war er ein Airforcer, der seinen Job absolut liebte. Jesse war an dieser Nacht mit einem Gruppe seiner Freunde da. Er hatte sogar alle ihre Tickets gekauft, weil er so aufgeregt war, diese Nacht mit ihnen zu teilen. Als die Schüsse klingelten, schlug Jesse sich heroisch vor seinen Freund. um sie zu schützen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Von dort wurde Katie nach draußen gebracht. Sie hat geschaut, als die Polizei die Verbrecher aus dem Theater rausgezogen hat. Mit jeder Person, die sie rausgezogen hat, hatte sie gehofft, ihren Mann zu sehen. Und dann hat sie ihn endlich gesehen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Von dort an transportierte Officer Grizzle ihn zum Krankenhaus in seinem eigenen Fahrrad. Hier ist, was der Officer später sagen würde.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Caleb Medley wurde schnell in eine emergency life-saving surgery gerutscht und Katie war verletzt mit einer schrecklichen Aufgabe. Sie riefen ihre Freunde und Familie, um ihnen zu erzählen, dass Caleb in den Kopf geschossen wurde. Schmerzhaft, als sie jede dieser Telefonrufe platzierte, war jeder sicher, dass Katie klingelte, um ihnen zu sagen, dass sie in den Arbeitsplatz ging.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jeder antwortete den Telefon mit Enttäuschung, nur um mit den Nachrichten zu werden. Caleb wurde in den Kopf geschossen und sie wusste nicht, ob er es erreichen würde. Katie ging auch in den Krankenhaus, und während ihres Mannes der Gehirnschmerz war, ging sie in die Arbeit, allein ohne ihren Mann an ihrer Seite.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber im Laufe des Prozesses riefen sich die Pellets des Schotten durch sein Herz und die Lungen, um ihn zu töten. Einer seiner Freunde, die an der Nacht mit ihm war, sagte, dass sie sich erinnert hat, dass sie Jesse auf dem Boden gesehen hat, in einem Fluss von Blut. Sie haben ihn angefangen zu schütteln, um zu fragen, ob er okay war, aber es war klar, dass er es nicht war.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber glücklicherweise, durch irgendein Wunder und das hartes Arbeit der Behörden und medizinischen Teams, Caleb überlebt. Er würde in einem Koma für ca. einen Monat bleiben, aber als er aufwuchs, konnte er endlich seinen Sohn halten. Aber Caleb ist permanent verletzt. Er hat sein Auge verloren und er hat eine schwierige Zeit, zu sprechen. Also wurde ihre Familie für immer verändert.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Zurück auf die Szene, die ersten Anwesenden haben weiter zu den Verletzten gefolgt. Polizeis sergeant Mike Hawkins sagte, dass das die schlimmsten 20 Minuten seines gesamten Lebens waren. Angetastet mit der Sicherung, dass niemand mehr verletzt wurde, musste er von Verletzten ausgerufen werden, die an ihn klingelten, um Hilfe zu bitten.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Es war eine der schwersten Entscheidungen, die er je gemacht hat. Sie verabschiedeten sich von Hilfen, glaubten, dass Backup auf der Route war, um sie zu retten, weil er es nicht konnte. Es war eine ganze Reihe von schmerzhaften Leuten, die auf der Straße, im Parkplatz und im Lobby blieben. Aber es gab nicht genug Ambulanzen. Ich brauche eine Rettung, eine Stage und den Dillard-Lot.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Durch die ganze Nacht laden die Offiziere die Gefühle in ihre Patrouillen. Ich habe hier eine Ambulanz.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Ich habe hier eine ganze Menge Leute geschossen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Keine Rettung.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Ja, laden sie auf, holen sie in den Auto.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Langsam, aber sicherlich, wurde jeder, der noch einen Puls hatte, ins Krankenhaus genommen. Und nachdem die letzte Ambulanz weggegangen war, waren sie verletzt mit einer furchtbaren Szene. Blut schloss das Konkret. Außerhalb der Tür des Theater 9 war die Waffe, die im Angriff verwendet wurde. Das Fahrzeug des Schützen war immer noch draußen parkiert. mit seinem Gasmask am Boden daneben.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber die Szene draußen war nichts im Vergleich zur Szene drinnen. Als das Teergas endlich startete zu klären, wurde die echte Verrücktheit des Schutzes entdeckt. Die totale Todeszahl war zwölf. Zwölf, was Ashley Mosers ungeborenes Baby betrifft. aber zwei von den Verbrechern starben später im Krankenhaus. So, an dieser Nacht waren noch zehn Körper im Century-16-Theater.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Die Flügel waren komplett nackt von den Trinken der Menschen und des Verbrechers Blut. Auch auf der Flügel standen Kugeln, Popcorn, Schuhe, und Telefonnummern. Verrückt, als die Anwesenden die Krimi-Szene arbeiteten, riefen diese Telefonnummern und riefen und riefen. Nach dem Wort, dass es einen Schuss gab, begannen die Verletzten, sie anzunehmen, um sicherzustellen, dass sie in Ordnung waren.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber einige dieser Telefonnummern werden nie beantwortet.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nun, glücklicherweise, anders als bei manchen Schüsse, die Aurora-Polizei sprang schnell in Aktion. Aber auch so, die Verrücktheit, die dieser Schütze in nur zwei Minuten verursacht hat, war unvorstellbar. Viele der reagierenden Offiziere haben nach dem Schuss wirklich gezwungen. Sie hatten für fast alles unter dem Sonnenlicht trainiert, aber das war ein ganz neues Tier.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Dieser Podcast ist nicht für alle. Ihr habt gewarnt.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Und mit Blöcken, die überall fliegen, hatten seine Freunde keine andere Wahl, als sich über seinen Körper zu stecken und sich sicherzustellen. Der nächste, der in der Schlagzeugflasche getötet wurde, war der 51-jährige Gordon Cowden. Er war der älteste Mütter des Schutzes und leider war er an dieser Nacht mit seinen zwei jüngeren Mädchen da.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Wir hatten nicht getrennt, um das zu tun. Jetzt, früher am Abend, hatten 140 Ärzte und Ärzte in den Krankenhäusern um Aurora gehört, dass ein massiver Schuss stattgefunden hat. Also waren sie vorbereitet für die Verbrechen, die zukommen würden. Hier ist Denver Sevens Interview mit einigen dieser Ärzte und Ärzte.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Glücklicherweise würden die Mädchens Eltern überleben. Viele von den Ärzten und Ärzten sagten, dass diese Nacht auf jeden Fall die härteste Nacht ihrer ganzen Karriere war. In einem Krankenhaus bekamen sie 22 Mütter mit Wundschutzschmerzen und weil ihrer Arbeit hart war, über alle von diesen Müttern überlebt. Aber insgesamt wurden über 70 Menschen verletzt, einige wurden permanent verletzt.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nun, weil dieser Schuss nach Mittwoch stattfand, wussten viele Leute rund um Aurora und die Nation überhaupt nicht mehr über die Tragödie, bis am nächsten Morgen. Ich werde nie vergessen, darüber zu hören. Damals gab es keine massiven Schüsse. Die Sandy Hook Mass-Schüsse hatten noch nicht stattgefunden. Das würde etwa fünf Monate später passieren.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Also war der Gedanke, dass ein Anwalt ins Theater geht und einen Raum mit fast 400 Leuten besiegt, entspannend. Bis dahin waren Theater ein sicherer Raum für die Menschen. Und dann waren sie es nicht. Und als alle die Nachrichten am nächsten Tag gesehen haben, waren unsere Herzen für die Stadt Aurora zerbrochen. Hier war die Pressekonferenz am folgenden Tag.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Sie würden später sagen, dass ihr Vater der schönste, unabhängigste Mann war, den sie jemals getroffen haben. Einer ihrer liebsten Erinnerungen an ihn war, als er ihre Fahrt in der Mitte der Straße stoppte, um einem kleinen Prairiedog sicher durch die Straße zu helfen. Das war nur der Art von Person, der er war. Nun, glücklicherweise, würden Gordons Töchter es unverletzt machen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Police Chief Dan Oates would later say, our cops went through a lot. As I told you this morning, they rushed people out of that theater into police cars. One of the things we're working on is how we're going to deal with our own trauma. And we spent some time today with our three department psychologists.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
And somehow in the next couple of days, when this is slowed down, one of our highest priorities is to deal with our own officers and how they cope with this event. If you think we are angry, we sure as hell are angry about what has happened to our city. was mit den wunderschönen Menschen, die hier gelebt haben, passiert ist. Nun, bald danach, wurden die Namen der Verletzten dem Publikum geliefert.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jessica Gawi, Alex Sullivan, Alex Tevez, Veronica Moser-Sullivan, Baby Moser, Matt McQuinn, John Larimer, Jonathan Blunk, A.J. Boyk, Jesse Childress, Gordon Cowden, Michaela Medic und Rebecca Wingo. Und später, der Präsident der Vereinigten Staaten, Barack Obama, hat ein Statement geliefert, das sagte, Michelle and I are shocked and saddened by the horrific and tragic shooting in Colorado.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Federal and local law enforcement are still responding, and my administration will do everything that we can to support the people of Aurora in this extraordinarily difficult time. We are committed to bringing whoever was responsible to justice, ensuring the safety of our people, and caring for those who have been wounded.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
As we do when confronted by moments of darkness and challenge, we must now come together as one American family. All of us must have the people of Aurora in our thoughts and prayers as they confront the loss of family, friends and neighbors. And we must stand together with them in the challenging hours and days to come.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
That evening, a candlelit vigil was held to honor the victims of the tragedy. Hundreds of people showed up, and all everyone could do was hug each other and cry. But in these horrific times, when we are reminded of how scary the world can be, we also see the best of humanity. The town of Aurora really came together to make sure the victims Their families and first responders felt supported.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Following the shooting, the Aurora Victim Relief Fund raised over $5 million. That money was split between the 12 victims' families and the five survivors who, quote, "...suffered permanent brain damage or permanent physical paralysis." End quote.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Es ist ein paar Minuten vor Mittwoch, am 20. Juli 2012. In der Stadt von Aurora, Colorado, haben Hunderten von Menschen ihre Reise zum Century-16-Theater gemacht, um die Mittwoch-Premiere des neuen Batman-Films, The Dark Knight Rises, zu sehen. Viele Menschen im Theater haben diese Nacht für eine Weile gewartet. Menschen wurden in Kostümen gekleidet, Homemade-Signale geblasen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
In den Wochen nach dem Massaker wurden die zwölf Mörder-Mitglieder alle aufstehen. Und die Gemeinschaft von Aurora kam alle zusammen, um ihren Respekt zu zeigen. Tausende von Residenzen aus der Stadt waren in Aufmerksamkeit. Ihre Feierabende wurde von Cinemark bezahlt, der Elternfirma von Century 16 Theatern. Nun, nach dem Schuss, hat Century 16 ihre Türen für eine Weile geöffnet.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Viele Menschen in der Gemeinschaft wollten sie zerstören, weil sie glaubten, dass die Schmerzen, die sie in sich genommen haben, zu schwer zu vergessen wären. Aber sie haben sie nicht gemacht. Nach sechs Monaten von Kleidung und Renovation öffneten sie ihre Türen wieder am 25. Januar 2013.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber nach der Beobachtung der Verbrechung an dieser Nacht, würden sie niemals das gleiche sein.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nach dem Massaker hat Christopher Nolan, der Direktor von The Dark Knight Rises, ein Statement veröffentlicht, das sagte, Now, again, the gunman didn't choose this movie to send any sort of message. He simply picked it because he knew a lot of people would be in attendance. But from then on, that film would forever be associated with one of the deadliest mass shootings in American history.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Christian Bale, who played Batman in the film, also released a statement that read... Worte können nicht den Schreck ausdrücken, den ich fühle. Ich kann nicht beginnen, wirklich zu verstehen, die Schmerzen und Schmerzen der Opfer und ihrer Liebsten. Aber mein Herz geht ihnen raus. Tage später hat er sogar nach Aurora gereist, um Opfer, die im Krankenhaus waren, zu besuchen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nun, an diesem Punkt in der Schutze, waren hunderten von Menschen, die 9-1-1 frantisch anrufen, aber der erste Anruf kam offiziell um 12.39 Uhr.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber von hier aus würde Aurora, Colorado ihr Bestes tun, um die Teile aufzunehmen. Es ist schwer zu bemerken, wie stark diese Städte nach diesen Massakern befinden. Und du weißt nicht, wie es sich fühlt, bis es in deiner Stadt, in deiner Gemeinschaft, passiert. Aber das Verbrechen dieses Verbrechens hatte einen Ripple-Effekt. Es waren 400 Leute in Theater 9 an der Nacht.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
400 Menschen, die direkt traumatisiert wurden. 400 Menschen, die für ihre Leben laufen mussten. Die Menschen, die die Todesfälle in den Augen sahen. Zwölf dieser Menschen würden nie mehr leben, um einen anderen Tag zu sehen. Und die Familienmitglieder der Verletzten, die am Abend mit ihnen waren, sahen ihre Verliebten direkt vor ihnen sterben. 70 Menschen würden in der Attacke verletzt werden.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Einige von ihnen befinden sich immer noch mit Krankheitsproblemen. Und auch für die Menschen, die nicht verletzt wurden, Their lives would never be the same. Simply being at the Century 16 Theater that night has left people with deep-rooted trauma, PTSD, survivor's guilt. And they carried the weight of that with them in the months and years that have followed. Dann gibt es die Anwesenden.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Die Bilder, die sie an der Nacht im Theater gesehen haben, werden mit ihnen für immer bleiben. Was im Grunde ein Ort für Spaß und Unterhaltung war, wurde in einem Moment in einer Kriegszone umgekehrt. Und wie bei jedem massiven Schuss, hatte jeder die gleiche Frage. Warum? Warum würde jemand das tun?
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nach dem Schuss hieß es, dass alle in Amerika die Tage bis zur Gerechtigkeit gehalten werden sollten. Nun, ich wollte diese Serie in zwei Teilen beenden, bevor unser Sommerabschluss beginnt, aber der Schuss alleine mit all den Testimonien der Gefühle, die ich hier eingeführt habe, endete mit viel mehr Zeit als erwartet, und ich fühlte, als ob sie einen eigenen Episode verdient hätten.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Einer, die nichts mit dem schrecklichen Mann zu tun hatte. Aber es gibt noch so viel mehr zu dieser Geschichte. Wir werden also Teil 3 nächste Woche machen. In dieser Episode sprechen wir über den Angriff der Anwälte, sein kräftiges Wohnzimmer, Interviews mit Psychiatern, Sein Verhalten im Gefängnis und endlich sein Trial.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Dann, am Ende des nächsten Wochen, werden wir auch über die Nachfolge des Schutzes und einige der Gute, die aus solcher Dunkelheit kamen, sprechen. Also machen Sie sich sicher, dass Sie uns an diesem Thema beitragen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Im Namen des heutigen Episodes werden wir eine Donation für Everytown for Gun Safety machen, das ist eine Bewegung und Organisation, die arbeitet, um die Gewalt in Amerika zu beenden. Hey alle, danke für das Zuhören zu heute's Episode von Murder in America. Courtney und ich sind froh, dass ihr hier seid und wir wollten diese Geschichte für eine lange Zeit erzählen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Es gibt so viele Details in dieser Geschichte, die einfach so furchtbar sind und unsere Herzen, wie bei jedem Fall, den wir beobachten, gehen nicht nur an die Gefühle, die in diesem horrifischen Event gestorben sind, aber auch den Überlebenden, die durch die Tragödie gelaufen sind. Wir haben noch eine Part zu dieser Serie vor unserer Mittagspause, wo wir alle Juni ausmachen werden.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Aber nächste Woche werden wir zurückkommen, um diese Serie mit Part 3 zu beenden. If you don't like the ads in the show and you want to get early ad-free access to our episodes, please consider joining us and supporting the show on Patreon. Like I just said, on Patreon you can get access to early drops of the main feed episodes, ad-free versions of the episodes, and bonus content.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
If you've never signed up for our Patreon today, if you sign up, you can get access to over 100 bonus episodes of the show. These are full-length episodes of Murder in America with Courtney and I. Telling stories the exact same way that we do here on the main feed. So if you love the show and you want to help support what we do, please consider joining us and our community over there.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Also, please don't forget to leave us a five star review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every case that we cover. And yeah, thank you guys so much for joining us this week. Courtney and I will be back next Friday with our final episode before that month break. And yeah, thanks again.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
And we'll catch y'all next week.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Wie Sie hören können, war es schwer, irgendetwas unter dem Geräusch des Schusses herauszufinden. Aber endlich war Hilfe auf dem Weg. Aber bevor sie dort kommen konnten, würden mehr Menschen ihre Leben verlieren. Eine andere Person, die mit einem Schottenblast getroffen wurde, war die 32-jährige Rebecca Wingo.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Sie war die Mutter von zwei Mädchen, Jewel und Jalen, und hat in der Luftwaffe als Mandarin-Kryptolinguistin gearbeitet. Bei der Zeit, als sie ihren Dekret erhielt hat, war Rebekah bekannt, um aus ihrem Weg zu gehen, um alle um sie herum zu fühlen, die an allen Zeiten inkludiert waren. Seine Töchter waren absolut enttäuscht, um über ihre Todesgeschichte zu lernen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Als ihr Ex-Husband gefragt wurde, wie er planen würde, Rebekahs Erinnerung zu retten, gab er eine der schönsten Antworten, indem er sagte, dass das die Art von Sache ist, die man sich nie fragen würde, wenn man Rebekah kennt. Es ist, als würde man fragen, wie man sicherstellen würde, dass das ein Tisch bleibt. Es ist bereits gemacht, also ist das, wie es ist, und das ist Rebeccas Kraft.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Das ist die Entropie. Das ist die Gravität, die sie hat. Wenn du mit ihr in der Wohnung warst und du siehst, wie sie mit den Mädchen ist, wüsstest du, dass sie bereits in ihnen ist. Ihr Verliebter sagte, dass sie so glücklich war mit der schönsten Seele. Nun, nachdem Rebekka mit der Waffe getötet wurde, hat der Schütze dann seinen Pfeil genommen und die Schüsse in den Publikum gesprayt.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Rebekka Wingo wurde auch während dieses Wachstums getötet.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Die nächste Mütterin war 24-jährige Jessica Gowey. Sie ist gerade nach Colorado geflogen, um ihre Träume als Sportwettbewerber zu erfüllen, fokussierend auf den Sport des Hockey. Sie ging durch den Namen Jessica Redfield, nicht nur wegen ihres feierlichen roten Haares, sondern weil Redfield ihr Großvater-Name war.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jetzt hat Jessica einen Blog unter diesem Namen geschrieben und darin hat sie Menschen einen kleinen Blick in ihre Leben gegeben. Es gab lustige Posts über ihre Schwierigkeiten beim Dating und über ihre Liebe zum Sport. Aber es ist die letzte Post, die sie jemals gemacht hat, die am stärksten beeindruckt war.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Wie es sich herausstellt, war es vor einem Monat, Jessica war an der Szene eines anderen Mass-Schutzes in Kanada. Hier ist, was sie über das Schutzen in ihrem Blog geschrieben hat. Titelt, Quote, Late Night Thoughts on the Eaton Center Shooting. Es beginnt, Quote, I can't get this odd feeling out of my chest. This empty, almost sickening feeling won't go away.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
I noticed this feeling when I was in the Eaton Center in Toronto, just seconds before someone opened fire in the food court. An odd feeling, which led me to go outside and unknowingly out of harms way. Es ist schwer für mich, mich daran zu erinnern, wie ein seltsames Gefühl mich aus dem Mittelpunkt eines tödlichen Schusses gerettet hat.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Was zu Beginn als eine Reise zum Mall war, um Sushi zu bekommen und zu kaufen, endete als ein Tag, der mein Leben für immer verändert hat. Ich war an einer Mission, Sushi zu essen, und wenn ich an einer Mission bin, wird mich nichts beurteilen. Als ich am Eat'n Center Mall gekommen bin, bin ich auf die Foodcourt gestiegen und habe einen Sushi-Restaurant beobachtet.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Anstatt zu gehen, sich zu sitzen und Sushi zu genießen, I changed my mind, which is very unlike me, and I decided that a greasy burger would do the trick. I rushed through my dinner. I found out after seeing a map of the scene that minutes later, a man was standing in the same spot I had just ate at, an open fire in the food court full of people.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Had I had sushi, I would have been in the same place where one of the victims was found. My receipt shows my purchase was made at 6.20 p.m. Nach dem Kauf sagte ich, ich fühlte mich lustig. Es war nicht so lustig, wie du es fühlst, wenn du Geld spielst, das du nicht spenden solltest. Es war fast ein panickiges Gefühl. Es hat meinen Körper gefühlt, als ob etwas verpasst wurde.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Und manche kamen sogar schon vor, um einen guten Platz zu bekommen. Als die Lichter gedämmt waren, holten alle ihre Popcorn, Soda und Kaffee und sie fühlten sich zufrieden. Manche haben sogar einen Countdown gestartet. Fünf, vier, drei, zwei, eins. Am Ende des Countdowns stand das Film auf dem Bildschirm und das Publikum kreischte mit Entspannung. Aber sie wussten nichts.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Ein Gefühl, das genug überwältigend war, um mich in den Regen zu führen, um frische Luft zu bekommen, anstatt zurück in den Kühlschrank zu gehen und Sport zu kaufen. The gunshots rang out at 6.23. Had I not gone outside, I would have been in the midst of gunfire.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Jessica had been visiting her boyfriend in Toronto over the week of June 2nd, when two suspected gang rivals opened fire on each other in a crowded mall. In total, seven people were shot and two were killed. Her proximity to such a tragedy changed her outlook on life entirely. She continues in her block.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
I was shown how fragile life was on Saturday. I saw terror on bystanders faces. I saw the victims of a senseless crime. I saw lives change. I was reminded that we don't know when or where our time on earth will end. Wann oder wo wir unsere letzte Atmung atmen werden. Für einen Mann war es in der Mitte eines mühseligen Körpers am Sonntagabend.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Ich sage immer, dass jeder Moment, den wir haben, um unsere Leben zu leben, ein Geschenk ist. So oft habe ich mich selbst davon erkannt. Jeder Hüpfung von einem Familienmitglied. Jeder Lächeln, den wir mit Freunden teilen. Auch die Zeiten der Leidenschaft sind alle Geschenke. Jeder zweite von jedem Tag ist ein Geschenk.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Nach dem Sonntagabend weiß ich, dass ich wirklich verstehe, wie gebeten ich bin, für jede Sekunde, die mir gegeben wird. Ich fühle mich, als ob ich überreaktiere auf das, was ich erlebt habe. Aber ich kann nicht helfen, als dankbar zu sein für all das, was mich dazu geführt hat, die Entscheidungen, die ich an diesem Tag gemacht habe. Mein Geist spielt weiter, was ich in meinem Kopf gesehen habe.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Ich hoffe, dass die Gefühle eine volle Rückkehr machen. Ich wünschte, dass ich dieses seltsame Gefühl aus meinem Körper schütteln könnte. Das ist, wie Jessica's letzte Blogpost endet. Es wurde nur fünf Wochen bevor sie am Zentrum einer anderen sinnlosen Tragödie 1600 Meilen entfernt wäre.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Viele Menschen haben Erfahrungen, die sie sagen, sie werden für das Beste verändern und ihre Leben mehr vollständig leben. Aber Jessica hat es wirklich getan. In den fünf Wochen zwischen den beiden Schüsse fuhr sie über die Wälder, ging mit Freunden mehr raus, und sie führte neue Jobangebote. In der Tat, am Tag der Aurora-Schüsse musste sie eine Jobinterview mit Mile High Sports Magazine haben.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Der jüngere Schauspieler hatte ihre Arbeit gesehen und war sehr beeindruckt. Er hatte keine Angst, dass sie eingeladen werden würde, aber leider hatte sie nie die Chance. Jessica war an den Filmen am Abend mit ihrer Kindheitsfreundin, Brant Lowack. Er hat die ganze Zeit von Texas gefahren, um mit ihr ein bisschen Zeit zu verbringen.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Und laut ihm war Jessica so gespannt, dass sie den Abendmarsch von The Dark Knight Rises sehen. Nun, er wollte nicht wirklich gehen, aber Jessica wollte es wirklich. Hier ist Brant in seinen eigenen Worten.
Murder In America
EP. 204: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 2)
Brent sagte, nachdem sie ihr Popcorn bekommen haben, sind sie in Theater 9 gegangen und es war komplett verpackt. Sie haben sich entschieden, Sitzungen am rechten Seite des Saals zu bekommen. Aber bevor der Film begann, sagte Brent, dass es definitiv eine Erwartung im Luftraum gab.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth McDuff was facing a misdemeanor charge for threatening the young boy, but because he was out on parole at the time, this meant he could go back to prison, which is what everyone was hoping for.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The Falls County District Attorney Tom Seehan even wrote a letter to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice that stated, "...the above, Kenneth McDuff, is the most extraordinarily violent criminal to ever set foot in Falls County." Now, once again, during Kenneth's hearing for this offense, he testified on his own behalf.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And during his testimony, he started talking about his hatred of black people. I guess he thought it would somehow help his case. But in yet another string of luck, Kenneth would be let off the hook again. Unfortunately, the boy that he threatened didn't show up to the hearing. According to the book titled Bad Boy, the young boy's mother feared for her family's safety.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And without his testimony, the charges against Kenneth were dropped.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And it seemed as if Kenneth knew, this time around, that he needed to get his act together. Because in the months after his release, he decided to enroll in classes at the Texas State Technical College in Waco. The classes were even paid for through his rehabilitation program. But as you're about to see, Kenneth McDuff was anything but rehabilitated.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
While taking these classes, he often frequented Faulkner Street, which is an area in town where drug dealers and sex workers used to hang out. While there, Kenneth would usually buy some crack and then leave with the sex worker, taking her back to his dormitory on campus.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But according to people that knew him, his crack made him incredibly violent, and he often took that violence out on the sex workers. Soon enough, Kenneth began making a name for himself on Faulkner Street. Anytime the sex workers saw him driving up, the girls dreaded it. One girl, who went by the name Ducky, said that sex with Kenneth was a miserable experience.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
She remembered her three-hour sex ordeals with him in which he would penetrate, quote, every hole in her body, end quote. And he apparently liked to humiliate women. He got off on degrading them. He would also force them to perform sexual acts that they weren't comfortable doing. To him, it didn't matter if they didn't like it. He was paying them.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, there's no telling the actual number of women that Kenneth murdered. When a sex worker was reported missing back then, the police department wasn't necessarily scrambling to solve the case. But the girls on Faulkner Street were very wary of Kenneth McDuff. He seemed to always be one of the last people to see these girls before they suddenly disappeared.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And the police department wasn't doing anything about it. Now, because Kenneth was on parole, he had to do regular check-ins with his parole officer. And to them, he seemed to be doing pretty well. In fact, during his first semester at school, he was on the Dean's list with a 3.7 GPA. On the outside, Kenneth was a student who was trying to better himself.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But in reality, when darkness fell, he was a drug-crazed, sadistic predator. Now, while Kenneth was attending this school, he was living by himself in the dorm on campus. And at the time, he was 46 years old. People at the school that knew him said that he often kept to himself. He didn't have any friends.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
During the spring semester of 1992, he took a course on human relations, and his professor instructed him to list his four best personal characteristics. He chose reliable, respectful, perceptive, and open-minded. Another exercise asked students to choose five traits that described how they felt about themselves. Kenneth chose aware, considerate, loyal, productive, and trusting.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Negative traits he listed were not good at meeting people and too trusting sometimes. During two assignments in class, they had to take a test on sexual harassment and drugs. And it was reported that Kenneth scored perfectly on both.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
also it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program so if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here share us on your instagram story shout us out on x post one of our shows on your facebook and let the world your friends your family know that you're listening to murder in america it seriously helps us so much helps us grow the show we couldn't do this without all of you listening at home seriously thank y'all but let's get back to the story
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, in September of 1991, Kenneth had spent the night getting drunk and decided to get behind the wheel. He was driving drunk around Temple, Texas, when a police cruiser came up behind him and pulled him over. And at that moment, Kenneth began to panic. He knew he was on parole, so this could have very well sent him back to prison. And the officer ended up arresting him for DWI.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And he would later plead guilty. But as we know, Kenneth had a way of getting around the law. At the time, the prisons in Texas were still overcrowded, so the Texas Department of Criminal Justice didn't think it was necessary to send him back. Instead, he was once again punished with a slap on the wrist.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth was given a fine, and he had an additional 20 months added on to his probation, which would prove to be a deadly mistake.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Following the murders of Luis Sullivan, Robert Brand, and Marcus Dunham, the state of Texas had scheduled Kenneth McDuff's execution for October 8, 1968. And as you can imagine, for the victim's family members, they were relieved to finally have justice.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, one would think that Kenneth would lay low after this, especially since he had just outrun the police. But that wasn't the case. In fact, just five days after murdering Brenda Thompson, he was back on Faulkner Street, looking for another sex worker. This time, he would pick up 21-year-old Regina Deanne Moore. Like Brenda, Gina was petite and dependent on drugs.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
She had three children, but due to her lifestyle, they were all adopted by relatives. In 1991, Gina was in a rough place. Her addiction had gotten so bad that she was locally known to put herself in risky situations. So on October 15th, when Kenneth pulled up his red pickup truck and ordered her to get in, she didn't think twice.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
It was around 11pm, as Kenneth drove Gina down a remote road on Highway 6. Near the Tehuacana Creek, Kenneth was able to park his truck far enough down an embankment for privacy. And from there, the two smoked crack together. Now, like we mentioned, crack was known to make Kenneth violent. And after the two smoked, he decided that he was going to kill her.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, nothing would ever bring Louise, Robert, and Marcus back, but at least they knew that the monster who killed them would get the justice he deserved. Or so they thought. As you may know, the death penalty is not an easy process. And although the state of Texas executes far more people than any other state, there are still a lot of hurdles to jump through when it comes to appeals.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He would later say that it was just for the hell of it. But once that decision was made, Kenneth tied up Gina's arms and legs. And like Brenda, he tortured her out there for hours. And like Brenda, her body wouldn't be discovered for years to come.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, interestingly, Gina's cousin was also a sex worker on Faulkner Street, and she said that she knew exactly who Kenneth McDuff was.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, once again, Barbara pleaded with the police to help in her daughter's disappearance. She even mentioned that it wasn't just her daughter missing, but Brenda Thompson too. However, they weren't very concerned. To the police, Brenda and Gina got into cars with strangers every single night.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
They were also known to go on drug benders from time to time, so I guess they just assumed the girls would show back up. But unbeknownst to them, one of those missing girls was the same girl they saw tied up in that red pickup that sped away from the DUI checkpoint. Now, how they missed that connection, we still don't know. But once again, Kenneth McDuff was off the hook. For now.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And Kenneth McDuff was appealing his verdict almost immediately after his trial. Because of this, his 1968 execution was postponed to 1969. Then it was postponed again to 1970. And after a few years in prison, he was pretty confident that he would never get put to death. After all, while he was there, none of the death row inmates he was with were executed.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
After this, Kenneth decided to get rid of his red pickup truck. After running from the police and nearly getting caught, he was scared. So one weekend, he drove back to Rosebud, Texas and returned the vehicle to his parents. They didn't ask him about the cracked windshield. Instead, they simply gave him another car, a 1985 tan Ford Thunderbird.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
From here, Kenneth was a lot less on edge, and he spent that entire December hanging out casually with his friends. One friend in particular said that he and Kenneth had crossed paths and immediately he could tell that he was full of himself. He was always bragging to anyone who would listen. And of course, Kenneth told this person all about how he loved to rob and kill people.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
They would later say that Kenneth was the scariest, craziest person they had ever met. During one of their outings, Kenneth spotted two young girls on roller skates and he told his friend he wanted to get them. His friend told him that he was crazy and that he didn't do that sort of a thing. But Kenneth didn't care.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He started following the young girls down the street, making vulgar comments about how hot they were. The friend that was with him said he was disgusted. And after that, he never spoke to Kenneth again. But there was one friend of Kenneth's during this time. that wasn't turned off by his vile behavior. And that was Hank Worley.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth had met Hank in the summer of 1991, months before he went on a frenzy murdering sex workers. But like his first accomplice, Roy Dell Green, Hank Worley was inspired by Kenneth. He would listen to him tell stories about raping women and beating people within an inch of their life, and he was fascinated. Kenneth and Hank would often drink beer together at dive bars around Belton and Temple.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Afterwards, the two would drive around town and Kenneth would point out all the good spots where they could hide a body. Now, like all the others before, Hank would later claim that he didn't think Kenneth was being serious. But soon enough, the two would be hiding a body together.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Once the temperatures started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn-out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything. So, we both decided to switch things up, and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts, or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Everything with Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Go to quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash America to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash America. And now let's get back to our story. Born in Louisiana in April 1963, Colleen was described as a tomboy who always wanted to leave her hometown of Villa Platt. And finally, that opportunity presented itself.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Colleen was dating a man named Jamil at the time, and he had just been offered a job at the Marriott Hotel in Austin, Texas. So Colleen decided to join him. She was described by her neighbors in Austin as a sweet woman who mostly kept to herself. She was close with her family and didn't do drugs and rarely drank alcohol. Colleen was determined to make something of her life.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
She studied hard to become an accountant and dreamed of one day having a husband and children. By the age of 28, Colleen was independent and working at the Lower Colorado River Authority as a supervising accountant. She lived alone in an apartment off West Lake Drive and had a cat named Manu. She joined the Army Reserves for a short time, earning the rank of Specialist E-4.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
However, she realized that that wasn't the life she wanted. so she processed out by the fall of 1991. But she wanted to stay in shape, so she became an avid jogger and golfer and regularly began working out at the Future Firm Fitness Center. Colleen was really enjoying her time in Austin. She hadn't been there very long, but the city was everything she had hoped for.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
That is, until the yogurt shop murders. When her family heard the horrible news, they called Colleen and warned her to be safe, especially since the killer was still on the loose. And Colleen told them that she would, but little did she know, she was about to meet a similar fate.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Earlier that night, Colleen got into her Mazda and drove to downtown Austin to deposit a $200 check that her father had given her for Christmas. Then, from there, at around 9pm, she left to go to Whole Foods. At the store, she purchased a gallon of milk and a bottle of vitamins. From there, she planned to go back home, but at the last minute, she decided to make one last stop and go to a car wash.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The self-serve car wash was located on West 5th Street, and Colleen pulled into one of the stalls. But unbeknownst to her, a convicted killer just so happened to be driving by at that very moment.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Once the two were finished, they got back into the car and started driving down the road once more. This time, they were headed towards the town of Belton, Texas. Off a secluded road with overgrown grass and brush, Kenneth stopped and pulled Colleen out of the car. He then threw her on the hood of his Thunderbird and raped her again.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Afterwards, Kenneth began beating Colleen, punching her in the face as hard as he could. Hank would later say that at some point during the beating, he heard something snap. He then watched as Colleen fell backwards and her head bounced off the ground. From there, everything went quiet. Colleen Reed, was dead. Hank would later say that at this point, he wanted to go back home.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
So Kenneth put Colleen's body in the trunk and they drove together back to Hank's sister's house. When Hank got out of the car to leave, Kenneth rolled down the window and asked, Do you have a shovel I could borrow? But Hank told him no. And from there, Kenneth left to dispose of her body.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Less than a week after meeting with his parole officer, one of the residents living at Kenneth's dorm on campus noticed a skinny African-American woman knocking on Kenneth's door. Her name was Valencia K. Joshua, who went by the name Kay. Kay was a known sex worker and drug addict, and Kenneth was one of her customers. He was also the last person to see her alive.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Sadly, during one of their rendezvous, Kenneth would murder Kay. He was also getting incredibly reckless. Because instead of disposing her body deep in the wilderness like he usually did, Kenneth actually buried her in a shallow grave near his college. But her body wouldn't be found right away. Now, like the other sex workers he killed, people suspected that he was responsible.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
after all he was the last one to see k alive and one would think that investigators would immediately look into kenneth considering he was the last person seen with the other two missing sex workers brenda and gina but of course they didn't and over the next few days he continued living his reckless life like he always did he got drunk started fights and went on numerous drug binges
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But despite this, at the end of February, he learned that he had received enough college credits to graduate. And after graduation, he had planned on working at this business called Victoria Machine Works. However, Kenneth got a call from them letting him know that they wouldn't be hiring him, which made him furious.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
He was also out around $800 after his Thunderbird broke down the week before, so he quickly found himself with no money, no job, and no plans for the future. He had also been coming down off a drug bender, and he needed something to make him feel better. A quick fix, if you will. So once again, Kenneth set off to find another woman.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Like all of his previous victims, Melissa Ann Northup was a petite woman. She was less than 5 feet tall and weighed only 100 pounds. She was someone that Kenneth knew he could overpower. She had two children, a boy and a girl from a previous marriage, and she did everything she could to support them.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Although she didn't have a high school diploma, Melissa was a hard worker, but was forced to take menial jobs. While she was working as a cashier at Whataburger, she met another employee there named Aaron. The two dated for a short time, and they eventually got married on June 17, 1990. Together, the couple decided to leave Whataburger and looked into careers at convenience stores.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Melissa chose Circle K, and Aaron went to work for QuickPak. Aaron wanted to get into management, and by the summer of 1991, Melissa had joined him at the convenience store. She was hired at 4.50 an hour, and her duties consisted of running the cash register and doing janitorial tasks around the store.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
According to author Gary LaVerne, Melissa wasn't crazy about her job and the lack of security in the store. Working the night shift from 11pm until 7am meant that she could possibly be exposed to robberies. But she believed that she wouldn't be able to find another decent job, so she sucked it up, at least for the time being.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth threw Melissa's body into a flooded gravel pit and then made his way back to her vehicle. Later that morning, a South Carolina couple named Richard and Ollie Bannister were returning to the New Road Inn after a late night out. This happened to be that hotel that was near the Quick Pack, where Kenneth had left his Thunderbird.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
That very same year, a Texas inmate named David Ruiz, who had been given a 25-year sentence for armed robbery, issued a handwritten lawsuit against the Texas Department of Corrections. David complained that the prisons were overcrowded, inmates didn't receive quality medical care, and they were constantly being brutalized by block tenders while prison guards turned a blind eye to the abuse.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And that morning, the couple noticed the Thunderbird next to an orange Buick. They also said there was a man standing next to the cars, and it was clear that the Thunderbird wouldn't start. The car had broken down. Now, Richard actually approached the man and asked if he needed any help, but the man said no. He also appeared to be a little nervous.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
This man would later be identified as Kenneth McDuff. And shortly after Richard approached him, Kenneth jumped into the orange Buick and took off down the road, leaving his Thunderbird abandoned in the hotel's parking lot.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Soon enough, McLennan County Sheriff's officers arrived at the quick pack after getting Aaron's 911 call. But as they walked through the store, they saw that there was no sign of a struggle. The empty cash register was concerning, but the officers weren't thinking that Melissa had been abducted by a serial killer. In fact, they were actually suspicious of Aaron.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But unbeknownst to anyone, the real person responsible for her disappearance was Kenneth McDuff, who by this point was speeding out of town in Melissa's Buick. By March 3rd, two days after murdering Melissa, no one had seen or heard from Kenneth McDuff, and his mother Addie was growing concerned. So much so, she called the Bell County Sheriff's Department to file a missing persons report.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
An officer arrived at the McDuff residence, and Addie told him that she had last seen her son on the morning of February 29th. but she was concerned because he had left her house upset and in a hurry. She believed that something terrible had happened to him. Eventually, the missing persons report ended up on the desk of investigator Tim Steglick.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Tim entered Kenneth's information into the system and discovered his long criminal rap sheet. And even during the beginning of the investigation, Tim felt that something was off about his mysterious disappearance. When he phoned Addie to find out more information, She told him that he failed to meet with his probation officer in Temple and that he was set to graduate from college soon.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
According to Addie, Kenneth would never have left shortly before graduation, and she believed that someone had murdered him.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
David said that the Texas prisons were a violation of his constitutional rights. After eight long years, the case of Ruiz v. Estelle went before United States District Judge William Wayne Justice of Tyler. It would be the longest trial in the history of Texas, a total of 129 days. Ultimately, Judge Justice ruled in favor of the plaintiff.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Like the Thunderbird, Kenneth had abandoned her vehicle. They searched it for clues, but only located a few bags of clothing that Melissa intended to donate to Goodwill. However, the front seat of the Buick had been pushed back as far as it would go, which was strange considering Melissa was only 4 feet 11 inches tall. It was becoming clear that Kenneth had been driving her car.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, the search for Melissa had been well underway, but after connecting her disappearance to a known serial killer, investigators decided to get the FBI involved. The FBI ended up reaching out to the Sheriff's Department in Everman, the town where Kenneth had committed his first known killings of the three teenagers.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And as you can imagine, when they heard that he was a suspect in the disappearance of a pregnant woman, they were horrified. They had known from the very beginning that Kenneth McDuff would kill again. And sure enough, here they were. When one of the agents spoke to the sheriff and Everman, they asked if he believed Kenneth was responsible. And he stated, Absolutely.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, technically, there wasn't enough evidence to issue a warrant for his arrest just yet. They of course knew that he was responsible for Melissa's disappearance, but they couldn't prove it. However, they were able to come up with some charges against him.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Apparently, in the past, Kenneth had sold drugs to an undercover informant, so they charged him with peddling drugs and possessing firearms, both federal offenses, which meant Kenneth McDuff was now a federal fugitive.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
from there there were a lot of changes in the state's prison system the court ruled that severe overcrowding in texas prisons was unconstitutional there were population caps in prisons and the state was forced to either build new prisons or release inmates early to meet the new limits
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Residents at the apartment complex would later say that he mostly kept to himself. He reported to work every day and didn't party at night. He was doing his absolute best to try and lay low. But if you've learned anything about Kenneth McDuff, then you'll know that it wouldn't be long until he reverted back to his old ways.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
april 10 1992 kenneth was in kansas city looking for a sex worker but he happened to walk right into a sting investigators had set up decoys throughout the city and kenneth walked right into their trap after trying to solicit sex from a decoy he was quickly arrested but in typical kenneth mcduff fashion he was somehow able to get away
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Yet again, believe it or not, when he was brought into the police station, they fingerprinted him and he said his name was Richard Fowler, and somehow they believed him. Then shortly afterwards, he was released. The investigators in Kansas City let him go, completely unaware that he was a wanted fugitive. From there, Kenneth went back home where he lived with his new roommate, Frances.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And like all of the friends he had before, Kenneth went on and on about all of the crimes he had committed throughout his life. He told Francis about his drug use and robberies, which didn't scare Francis away. So eventually, Kenneth opened up to him about the women he had killed. He even told them that he loved to kill his victims with his bare hands.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Francis would later admit that he noticed Kenneth always slept with a butcher knife on his pillow, and every time he would receive a paycheck, he would spend all of it on crack cocaine.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
With this ruling, county jails were filling up with state prisoners waiting to be transferred to prisons that had no space. According to author Gary LaVerne in his book titled Bad Boy, the Texas Department of Corrections was instructed to parole prisoners to make space for new inmates. He stated, They were instructed to release 150 prisoners a day, 750 a week, 3,000 a month, 36,000 per year,
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
or nearly 75% of the population Judge Justice allowed to be housed in Texas prisons in 1987.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
On March 25th, a local Waco resident decided to eat lunch in a remote area behind the Texas State Technical College, where Kenneth had been enrolled before he fled Texas. As this person sat down to enjoy his sandwich, he heard the sound of buzzing behind him. When he turned around to see what it was, he noticed a strange pile of brush.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Curious, the man approached the area and made a shocking discovery. A human skull. From here he immediately called 911 and investigators quickly arrived at the scene. And under the brush was a human body. It had been mostly intact except for the skull. Fingerprints would later determine that the body belonged to Valencia K. Joshua.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
the sex worker that was last seen knocking on Kenneth's door on campus. Now, Kay was found nude and in the fetal position. Due to the state of the body, the medical examiner could not determine the official cause of death, but ruled it as homicidal violence. And there was one crucial piece of evidence at the scene. It was a hair that did not belong to Kay.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Investigators would later learn that the hair belonged to none other than Kenneth McDuff.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
On May 6, 1992, Kenneth McDuff was transported via aircraft back to Texas with the U.S. Marshals. Although residents of Texas were relieved that Kenneth had been caught, others were angry that he had been able to get away with it for so long. Melissa Northrup's sister-in-law said, "...I hate him. I want to see him fry."
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, earlier we mentioned the yogurt shop murders where four teenage girls had been brutally raped, murdered, and set on fire in Austin, Texas. And given that Kenneth was in the Austin area at the time, they had to look into him as a suspect. But DNA evidence would later prove that it wasn't him. However, around this time, he was looked into as a suspect.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But clearly after his arrest, everyone wanted to know how a convicted killer, who was once sentenced to death after murdering three teens, was able to walk free and become a member of society. So there was a lot of talk about the circumstances surrounding his original parole in 1989. If you remember, he was also convicted of trying to bribe one of the members of his parole board.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, something we haven't yet mentioned is that Kenneth actually had a grown daughter at the time of his arrest. Her name is Teresa Allen. And can you guess how Teresa was conceived? Well, sadly, in 1964, Kenneth had raped a woman and nearly killed her. Following the rape, the woman found out she was pregnant. Teresa never had a good relationship with her biological father, Kenneth.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But in her 20s, when he was incarcerated, she started visiting him. Teresa said she was shocked when she learned that her father had been paroled back in 1989. And from the beginning, she always believed that her dad paid his way out of prison.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In February of 1993, Kenneth McDuff went on trial for the abduction and murder of Melissa Northrup. But it wasn't going to be an easy trial, as there were no eyewitnesses nor any physical evidence tying Kenneth to the crime scene. For the prosecutors, there was only circumstantial evidence.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Over the next few weeks, dozens of witnesses took the stand, including Kenneth's mother, Addie McDuff, Melissa Northrup's mother, Barbara, and of course, Kenneth's wingman in the Colleen Reed murder, Hank Worley. Now, there had been an argument on whether or not Hank should testify because he wasn't linked to the Melissa Northrup case.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
However, the prosecution wanted to compare the similarities between both Colleen and Melissa. They wanted the jury to see just what type of monster they were dealing with. Interestingly, a few days into the trial, Kenneth's public defenders asked to be relieved of their duties.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
They told Judge Bob Burdette that Kenneth refused to let them lead, second-guessing their defense strategy and arguing with them in the courtroom. But the final straw was when Kenneth told them he was going to testify on his own behalf. They did not believe it was a good idea, but Kenneth wouldn't take no for an answer.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Judge Burdette allowed Kenneth to take the stand, and for two and a half hours, Kenneth spun an elaborate tale of drugs, prostitution, and robberies. It appeared as though he loved to hear himself speak, and he told the court that on the night of Melissa's disappearance, he had met a man named Al, though Al could never be located.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But according to Kenneth, this Al guy paid him $1,500 for his Thunderbird, and in return, he was traded Melissa's orange Buick. But Kenneth said he did not know it was stolen and that he was innocent. But of course, it was obvious to everyone in the courtroom that he was lying.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
With Kenneth now behind bars, it was time to look into how all of this had happened. Everyone wanted answers as to how Kenneth was released from prison back in 1989.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And soon enough, on September 1st, 1993, news hit the media that the Texas Department of Criminal Justice fired prison and parole chief James Lina due to instances of corruption on how he allowed violent criminals to walk free from prison. They had come to a horrifying reality that if Kenneth had not been paroled, dozens of Texas women would still be alive.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
And Kenneth wasn't the only violent criminal they had set free.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
It's wild that these types of men were allowed to walk free, simply to control overcrowding. And Kenneth McDuff's crimes put a huge spotlight on how horrible of a mistake this was. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice tried to make things right by firing the parole chief. But the damage was already done. Now, as for Kenneth McDuff's other crimes, he still had to face his day in court.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
On January 20th, 1994, he was on trial once again for the abduction and murder of Colleen Reed in Austin, Texas. Sadly, by the time the trial started, Colleen's body still hadn't been found. but they did have physical evidence that proved Kenneth was guilty. In the backseat of his Thunderbird, five strands of Colleen's hair were found.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In addition, they had the testimony of his accomplice, Hank Worley. And it would only take the jury two and a half hours to reach their verdict. Once again, they found Kenneth guilty of capital murder, aggravated kidnapping, and aggravated sexual assault. After the verdict was read, Kenneth remained calm, cool, and collected at the defense table.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
However, as he was being led out of the courtroom, he lunged at Hank Worley. He also told a reporter that Hank had confessed to the yogurt shop murders. Here's the audio of Kenneth saying this.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Now, during the sentencing phase of Colleen's murder trial, Roy Dale Green once again made an appearance, telling the jury of the horrors he had witnessed during the Broomstick murders. And after only 55 minutes of deliberation, the jury handed down another death sentence to Kenneth McDuff. From there, Kenneth was taken to the Ellis unit on death row, and he was segregated for his own protection.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But by this point, he'd only been convicted of two murders he committed following his parole, the murders of Melissa Northrup and Colleen Reed. But what about the others? Well, in 1998, authorities decided to go to Kenneth and see if he would tell them where some of the bodies were located.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
At this time, Virginia Moore, Brenda Thompson, and Colleen Reed had never been found, and their families desperately wanted them back. At first, Kenneth wouldn't give any information, but after a few meetings, he started talking. And finally, he gave up the location of Virginia Moore.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Kenneth admitted that he had buried her under rocks and a piece of old carpet near the State Highway 6 bridge and the Tehuacana Creek near Waco. And on September 29th, 1998, her body was finally discovered.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The next victim they needed to find was Colleen Reed, which wouldn't be easy. For some reason, Kenneth did not want to give up the location. He told investigators that they would never be able to locate her without him present. He gave a general area, but it was too difficult to find. And when asked if it was the same location where she was murdered, he once again blamed Hank Worley.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But finally, on October 12, 1998, investigators, accompanied by Kenneth McDuff, located the skeletal remains of Colleen Reed near the Brazos River. After seven long years, Colleen was finally going home to her family in Louisiana. Here's some footage from her funeral.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
With them being sex workers, Kenneth didn't value their lives as much, so it was easy for him to talk about. On death row, he admitted that Brenda had been his first victim after his parole in 1989 and that he had taken her to a secluded location after dodging the Waco police checkpoint.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
After she tried to break his windshield, Kenneth was furious and told her, For the next six hours, Kenneth brutally tortured and raped Brenda and then choked her with his own two hands.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
as for reginia moore kenneth said that the two smoked rocks together and then he drove her to a secluded location and killed her just for the hell of it but again even with this confession he would never be convicted for their murders but justice was right around the corner because kenneth mcduff's execution was scheduled for november 17 1998.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
In the weeks before, investigators in Texas were still pleading with McDuff to give over more information about his killings and other potential victims. Horrifically, they think he could have been tied to at least a dozen more unsolved murders.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Following his execution, Kenneth Allen McDuff was buried in the Captain Joe Byrd Cemetery, also known as Peckerwood Hill. The prison cemetery is reserved for inmates who are not claimed by their family members after death. Apparently, none of his family wanted to claim Kenneth after his execution. His headstone does not contain his name.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
only his death row inmate number 999055 and the date of his death, November 17th, 1998. His execution brought not only long overdue justice, but prison reforms that ensured violent criminals like himself would never be able to walk free again. As for Hank Worley, he was convicted of aggravated sexual assault and sentenced to 40 years in prison. He is projected to be released on May 14, 2032.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But in conclusion, the life of Kenneth McDuff would go on to be very eye-opening for the state of Texas and how they handled their violent offenders. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice even introduced what they called the McDuff Laws.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
The news of McDuff's release was a shock to everyone. But the residents of Fall County were the most outraged of all. Even though it had been decades since Luis, Robert, and Marcus had been killed, their deaths were still felt throughout their community. Now, the man who actually arrested McDuff for those murders back in 1966 was Sheriff Brady Pamplin. And by 1989, he was retired.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Two billion dollars was spent on building more prisons, increasing the number of prison beds, and also increasing the number of units in each prison, so that violent offenders wouldn't be released back into society due to overcrowding. The governor at the time, Ann Richards, stated, If you're going to bring down the crime rate, you're going to have to build prisons to lock these people up.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Would I rather spend the money in another way? Absolutely, yes. But this is a necessity that I see no other way around. There was also the introduction of the McDuff Rule, which stated that if a violent offender is convicted of capital murder and not given the death penalty, they would now be required to spend a minimum of 40 years in prison before they'd be eligible for parole.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Hey everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of murder in America. Wow. This story is infuriating. The story is horrifying. I just could not believe the details of this and the failures of the Texas department of corrections. I mean, This entire story is just so wild. It's hard to wrap your head around the fact that this actually happened in real life. Just wild.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
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Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
We also have for the higher tiers, tons of bonus content, entire full length episodes of murder in America, over a hundred of them at this point with both Courtney and I, the sound effects, the music, everything. So if you love the show and you want to support what we do here, please consider joining us there. Don't forget to leave us a five-star review on Apple podcasts or Spotify.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
If you haven't already follow us on Instagram at at murder in america to see photos from every single case that we cover and yeah courtney and i just want to thank you guys so much for listening this week we have another wild story coming next week and yeah have a great weekend or week and i'll catch y'all on the next one
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
But when he heard the news, he immediately called up his old colleagues.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
sooner or later the bodies of young girls young ladies or boys are going to start turning up when parnell heard this news there was silence on the other end of the line finally after several seconds he said have they gone crazy now these officers got to see the brutality of mcduff's crimes firsthand it was the case that would forever stick with them
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
Retired Sheriff Brady Pamplin was a Texas Ranger and a World War II vet before he served on the force for 30 years. He had seen the worst of the worst, but nothing was as sadistic and violent as McDuff's crimes. So to them, when they heard he was back on the streets, they were incredibly worried.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
After his retirement, Brady Pamplin's son actually became the sheriff of Falls County, and they were determined to keep an eye on McDuff to make sure he didn't hurt anyone else. But Kenneth wasn't staying in one place for long. Life in Rosebud was not what Kenneth expected. By then, most of his family had families of their own and had moved away.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
His older brother Lonnie, who was his closest sibling, had actually been murdered while he was in prison. Apparently, he was shot to death by the ex-husband of this girl he had been seeing. So after Kenneth's release, it seemed as if Rosebud was no longer serving him. But before moving, it's widely believed that he committed a crime in the nearby town of Temple, Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
After that murder, McDuff moved around a lot. He couldn't seem to stay in one place. He moved to Temple, Cameron, Bellmead, Tyler, Dallas, and Rockdale. On October 17th, he was living in Rockdale with his sister, but almost immediately he started having problems with his brother-in-law. Apparently, Kenneth would just take their car whenever he wanted to. He also refused to get a job.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
At dinner, the family would sit down together and Kenneth would start making crude comments about women right in front of his young nephew. So eventually, Kenneth was kicked out. From there, he had no other choice but to move back in with his mother and Rosebud. And as you can imagine, he really took advantage of her.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
For his entire life, Addie McDuff thought her son could do no wrong, even after he was convicted of murdering three teenagers. Once he was released from prison, Addie bought him another car. She gave him a credit card that she would pay off every single month, and she didn't force him to get a job. Even further, Kenneth truly believed that the Justice for Macduff Inc. was going to make him famous.
Murder In America
EP. 195: TEXAS - The "Lucky" Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff
His attorney told him that they were talking about this movie and book deal. So in Kenneth's mind, he didn't have to work, and he was able to go about life however he wanted to.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our programs, so make sure If you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, post one of our shows on your Facebook, and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all. But let's get back to the story.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
From the very beginning, investigators knew that something was wrong here. What were Brittany and Celeste hiding? From here, both women were taken to the police station for questioning, and on multiple occasions, their stories changed. But throughout it all, they both stayed calm and collected.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now, they had obtained a vacant room list from on-site maintenance, and using this list, they went room to room to make sure Amari wasn't kidnapped or walked into an empty room by herself. They also called guests of the hotel to see if anyone witnessed anything, but unfortunately, no one had seen Amari Hall.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
So, from here, Gwinnett Police issued a public statement that said that they did not have any leads, but were confident that no foul play was involved. Corporal Kylie Boney stated, Miss Hall is new to the area, so she doesn't have a lot of friends or family she would reach out to.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
On October 30, 2013, a little baby girl named Emori Nicole Hall was brought into the world. It was Brittany Hall's first child, and even though the father wasn't in the picture, Brittany was excited to venture into motherhood. But being a single mother isn't easy. Luckily for her, Brittany's mother, Barbara Wright, was more than willing to help her out.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Officers are just patrolling the area, searching the woods, searching different businesses, trying to figure out where she could have gone. Wherever she is, I trust that the public, alongside the police department and our resources, we can locate Nicole and try and give the family some answers.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Once they were at the police station, Celeste Owens was taken into interview room number three, and Brittany Hall was taken into interview room number one. Both children, Zaire and Jakari, were instructed to wait in a waiting room equipped with children's toys, while Brittany and Celeste were questioned. Officer Sorensen and Detective Matthew Conway were assigned to interview Celeste.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
It was obvious from the beginning that Celeste struggled to keep her timeline straight. Here's some footage from Celeste's interview. Now, at points, you'll hear her call Amari, Nicole, because she sometimes went by both names.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Soon after her birth, Brittany and baby Amore moved in with Barbara and her husband, Tony, in their home located in DeKalb County, Georgia. And for the first few years of Amore's life, things were going well. She had a good support system. She was surrounded by people who loved her.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
barbara who amari called gigi said that growing up amore was a curious intelligent and vibrant child who enjoyed playing dress up and helping her grandmother cook barbara said that she will never forget the first time they made cornbread together amore helped her crack the eggs stir the batter and butter the pan and when it was time to pull it out of the oven amore's eyes lit up she was so proud of herself making something with her own two hands and watching it form into what she said looked like a beautiful cake
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
From the moment Detective Conway and Officer Sorenson questioned her, Celeste's story was all over the place. Unsure about timelines, inconsistent, and riddled with lies. But Detective Conway stated that the only thing they wanted to know was what happened to Amari Hall.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
literally think that she just of course ran away but i literally think that god forbid somebody snatched her up so according to celeste amore likely got angry and left the hotel room then somewhere along the way she could have been kidnapped celeste admitted that amari didn't have a history of running away but there was an incident at flat shoals elementary school where amari got angry and left the classroom
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Next, detectives want to know about Brittany and Celeste's parenting methods, specifically if they physically punished Amori when she acted out, but Celeste was adamant that they never did that, although cell phone recordings would later prove this was a lie. So, using a common interrogation tactic, Detective Conway asked if perhaps there had been an accident on the night Amori disappeared.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
They wanted Celeste to provide more information, while also giving her an option to minimize her involvement.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events,
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories we're presenting you people with facts telling you the story walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with murder in america and then letting the listener decide what they think anyways you should definitely give it a listen it's called the conspiracy files the links are in the description of this show and you can find it on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and now let's get back to our story
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Detective Conway and Officer Sorensen believed that Celeste knew more than what she was telling them. They told her that they were going to get a search warrant to check her phone to see if her timeline of events matched what was in her phone. Lift rides, her sister calling to babysit, and her exact movements and locations on the night Amari disappeared.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And it's here where Celeste started to get defensive. which only raised more red flags for investigators. Detective Conway then explained that it was their job to investigate every lead-in statement, even if the statement came from a 6-year-old child.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Amari was also very well-behaved and an excellent student at Flat Shoals Elementary School. Now, according to her mom, Brittany, Amari was diagnosed with high-functioning autism, but the rest of her family never knew about this diagnosis. When Brittany wasn't available to take her children to the pediatrician, Barbara took them and she was never told that Amari was autistic.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now, the fact that Zier said that Dad, which is what they called Celeste, took Amore out of the room that night was of huge importance to investigators. Kids don't lie about that kind of stuff. But detectives also couldn't help but notice when talking to the children that they had bruises covering their bodies.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Celeste tried to explain away the physical signs of abuse by saying that Amore and Zier often got into fights.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
barbara spent a lot of time with the child in fact for the entire year of 2020 and in the beginning of 2021 barbara took care of all three of brittany's children but for years it had been this back and forth of sending her kids to live with grandma but finally in 2021 brittany decided that she wanted them back so that's what she did
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
The investigators were very patient with Celeste. They let her ramble on about her innocence for hours, but the one thing they kept coming back to was her whereabouts that night. Celeste's story about her babysitting her nieces and nephews was a flat-out lie. In fact, investigators spoke to her family, and they claimed that they hadn't seen Celeste in months. So, they confront her about this.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Now, interestingly, there isn't a lot of information about Brittany Hall and what was happening with her during this time. But by Monday, November 22nd, there were still no signs of Amaury Hall. For days, investigators had been searching for the eight-year-old girl with no luck. And by 1015, they had to call off the search until the following day.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
However, this time, they issued a statement saying that they believed Amaury was in danger.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Back at the Gwinnett County Police Department, Celeste's cell phone was in the process of being searched. According to Officer Sorenson, it took a few hours to extract the data, but by the morning of Monday, November 22nd, around 9 a.m., they had uncovered some videos that disturbed them to their core.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
It was footage of all three of Brittany's children, Amori, Zaire, and Jakari, being subjected to cruel physical and mental abuse. The dates of the abuse range from July 20th, 2021 to August 9th, 2021. We're going to play some of the audio that they found from the videos on Celeste's phone.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And they're a little hard to hear, but trigger warning, you will hear the sounds of the children being physically abused.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
In these absolutely horrific videos, Jakari was shown on the floor as his mother Brittany walked past him and said, you're stupid as fuck, before hitting him 11 times on the back. Another video showed Jakari blindfolded on the floor and Celeste walked up to him, tightening the cloth around his eyes, and proceeded to slap him across the face and kick him while he was on the ground.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Another video showed one of the young girls getting slapped across the face with such force that her head was knocked sideways. After reviewing the shocking footage taken from Celeste's cell phone, investigators located Brittany Hall and she was also arrested and booked at the Gwinnett County Jail on child cruelty charges.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Barbara never knew why Brittany stopped communication and stated that the two never even had a falling out. She said that although the two had disagreements, there was never a moment where she pushed her daughter away. The last holiday she spent with Brittany, Amori, Zier, and Jakari, Christmas 2020, had been a happy occasion.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
People suspected that Celeste Owens was the one who killed Amari and that Brittany Hall, Amari's mother, helped her conceal the crime. Now, Celeste, who was in police custody, was now facing 11 cruelty to children charges, falsely reporting a crime, aggravated battery, aggravated assault, concealing the death of another, and felony and malice murder.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Brittany Hall was now charged with felony child cruelty charges, falsely reporting a crime, and concealing the death of her own daughter. Both women were held at the Gwinnett County Jail without bond. Following the discovery of Amaury Hall, her body was taken to the Gwinnett County Medical Examiner's Office for a complete and thorough autopsy.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
On the morning of November 24th, Assistant Medical Examiner Dr. James Downs was the physician in charge of determining the cause and manner of death. Upon review of the child's body, Dr. Downs discovered several blunt force injuries and extreme malnutrition. He determined that Amore's cause of death was battered child syndrome and the manner was homicide.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
After the shocking details emerged of Amore Hall's final hours of life, investigators were hard at work trying to find out the timeline of events in regards to Celeste Owens and Brittany Hall. One of the detectives assigned to go through Celeste's cell phone, Detective Randy Blackburn, discovered concerning searches that were conducted a few days before Amore was reported missing.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
on november 19th 2021 around 4 a.m celeste google searched what to do when a child just won't listen a few minutes later she searched what to do when a child doesn't listen around noon celeste google searched lakes in the area apparently investigators also discovered that celeste deleted her search history prior to giving her cell phone to law enforcement other google searches on november 19th were how do sewers on the street work
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Why do kids run away? How do I report someone missing? What to do if a loved one goes missing? Why is it so hard to find missing people? How do sewer drains work? And U-Haul customer account. Obviously, investigators were interested in why Celeste wanted to access her U-Haul account.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
They also discovered that on the same day, Celeste's cell phone locator showed that she had visited an A1 storage facility off Lawrenceville Highway. When investigators arrived at the location, store employees were able to provide a receipt that showed Celeste had rented a U-Haul van on that same date.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
They also provided call logs that showed Celeste's name and phone number where she had called multiple times to inquire about renting a van.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
ultimately celeste rented a van on november 19th at 106 pm she returned the van on the same day at 7 36 pm the total number of miles driven within the six hour time frame was 27. surveillance footage showed that celeste showed up at the a1 storage around 12 50 pm via uber waited in line for roughly 15 minutes and then left the location in the u-haul van at around 109 pm
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Detective Blackburn indicated that after Brittany Hall was arrested on November 22nd, she provided crucial information as to where Amari's body might be located. She also admitted that she was aware of the abuse by Celeste, downplaying her own involvement, and that she did not go with Celeste to dispose of her daughter's body.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Unfortunately, after several hours of extensive searching, they were unable to locate her due to the sun going down. However, the next morning, November 23rd, they successfully located her body in the same vicinity where Brittany said she might be. And the evidence against Celeste Owen was damning.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
In fact, the U-Haul tracked that Celeste had traveled 27 miles, which happened to be the exact mileage from the hometown studios to the dump site and then back to the A1 storage facility. Now, investigators did have a cadaver dog named Sierra, who's a blonde Labrador retriever, come sniff the van for any sign of human remains.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
But it's believed that the van had been thoroughly cleaned with that bleach that Celeste bought, so the dog wouldn't have been able to sniff out decomposition. However, using Celebrite's software, investigators were able to download and review Celeste's geolocation data on November 19th. Between 1241 p.m.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
and 1259 p.m., Celeste's location traveled from the hometown studios to the A1 storage facility, evidence that was backed up with surveillance video and a receipt. And although there was no geolocation between 546 p.m. and 727 p.m., Flock cameras continued to capture the U-Haul van moving south towards DeKalb County.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
According to court records, Celeste arrived in DeKalb County at around 6.35 p.m., and Celeste was also tracked traveling to the same general vicinity where Amore's body would later be discovered. Also, according to cell phone data, Celeste made an outgoing phone call to a number listed under the name My Lady at 6.58 p.m.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
around 7 pm flock cameras were able to capture celeste and the u-haul van heading back north away from decalb county according to investigators celeste had triggered specific preference settings on her cell phone during the time her geolocation was untraceable
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
but despite all the evidence against them celeste's defense attorney robert greenwald fought to show the jury that there was reasonable doubt he argued that there was no evidence to suggest that celeste was responsible for amari's murder instead he blamed brittany hall for killing her own daughter and instructed the jurors to look at evidence and not to rely on emotion or sympathy and you may be wondering how do investigators know that celeste was the one who killed amari
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Well, during the trial, multiple witnesses took the stand for the prosecution, pointing the finger at Celeste. But the most crucial witness was Omari's younger sister, Zaire.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
on the floor assistant district attorney brian brown asked zaire about the last night she had seen amari but zaire was having some trouble remembering so they ended up showing her this video of her interview with investigators on the morning that amore went missing and this seemed to help jog her memory that night i ate real food and and my brother and my sister didn't get they no real food and then my sister wanted
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
signed and dated this 13th day of december 2024 by the poor person before judge angela duncan sentenced celeste owens prosecutor sabrina nazim asked for the harshest sentence possible life in prison without the possibility of parole plus an extra 235 years amari's loved ones including her grandmother and grandfather barbara and tony wright and amari's aunt takara wright were also able to read their victims impact statements to the court
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Gwinnett County District Attorney Patsy Austin Gatson stated, "...this was a horrible way to treat these children and a tragedy that Amore Hill was killed as a result. We pray that her sister and brother are able to heal from the abuse they endured and that their extended family can get a sense of closure."
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Following her sentencing, Celeste was escorted out of the courtroom and immediately taken into custody. Today, Celeste is housed at the Arendelle State Prison in Georgia, where she will remain for the rest of her life. As for Brittany Hall, her charges were upgraded to include malice murder and felony murder.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
She's currently residing at the Gwinnett County Jail until her trial, which has yet to be scheduled.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Today we will be making a donation to the National Child Abuse Coalition An organization that aims to prevent and address child abuse and neglect They also work to reform federal policies within the child welfare system Hey everybody, it's Colin here.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America from both Courtney and I. We are actually recording this episode in Colorado. We've been on our yearly anniversary vacation, still working on all of our shows and our projects. So we didn't really take the week off. We've just been enjoying some time together out in the Colorado wilderness.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And yeah, we're going to be back next week with an episode that I've wanted to share and talk about for a long time. So I'm really excited to get this story back out into the world. If you guys don't like the ads on our show and you want to get early access to all of the episodes, please consider joining us on Patreon.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
On Patreon, you can get access to ad-free versions of every episode of the show, and there's also tons of bonus episodes. So if you've listened to every episode of Murder in America and you want more, Go check out our Patreon. There's going to be a new episode added this week for Certain Tears.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
The Georgia Department of Human Services Division of Family and Children Services had a history with Brittany and her oldest child, Amori. There were three investigations of abuse and neglect opened in 2015, 2017, and 2021. Ultimately, DHS never found enough evidence to charge Brittany, and she was allowed to keep her three children.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Of course, the truth would finally be revealed on the morning of Sunday, November 21, 2021.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
It wasn't long before police officers arrived at the hometown studios to speak with Brittany and her partner Celeste, and immediately, they started searching nearby areas for any signs of 8-year-old Amari Hall. Officer Jonathan Sorensen was the on-call detective for the Special Victims Unit that weekend, and arrived at room 251 around noon.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Before he was dispatched to the scene, Officer Sorensen issued a BOLO alert with a description of the area and what Amari was last seen wearing. It read, The Gwinnett County Police Department is searching for eight-year-old female Nicole Hall. Hall was last seen by her mother between midnight and 1 a.m. this morning. Hall went missing from the Homewood Studios at 7049 Jimmy Carter Boulevard.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Hall has autism and is new to the Peachtree Corners area. Hall was last seen wearing a blue Tweety Bird jacket with a blue and white pajama set. She is possibly wearing her glasses and her rainbow light-up shoes. Hall is 4 foot 10 inches tall and weighs approximately 80 pounds. She's a black female with brown eyes and black shoulder-length hair.
Murder In America
EP. 191: GEORGIA - The Child In The Trash Bag: The Disturbing Murder of Amari Hall
Hall's mother is extremely concerned for her daughter's safety. Anyone who may come into contact with her or learn of her whereabouts to call the police immediately.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Another woman named Cadence Lennon also responded saying this.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
But unfortunately, even after reporting this incident to the police, nothing would happen. Apparently, when the cops asked Devin about it, he denied it. According to Kaylee, Devin's family even started blaming their daughters, saying that the girls were snooping around looking in their windows, and that while doing so, they had caught a glimpse of Devin masturbating.
Murder In America
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But Kaylee was adamant that that was not what happened.
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The Idaho Tribune also reported that two sources said Devin Smith was given two days of in-school suspension after he was caught masturbating in class. But according to the news report, the allegations were never confirmed.
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And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
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Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
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So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
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But let's get back to the story. Kaylee made another Facebook post, this time with a picture of Devin. And she stated the following.
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Once again, someone responded to her post with a personal story of Devin. It read as follows.
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Now, Kenna's friend, Katie Ann James, stated in a later interview with the Spokesman Review that Devin had a learning disability and struggled socially, but she said that he had been working hard to overcome his issues. Devin's great uncle, Joe Guadipi, admitted that his mother, Kenna, had reached out to the state for help to try and get Devin counseling, as she couldn't afford it on her own.
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But after she sent in her application, there was just little that they could do.
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And by looking at their Facebook accounts, it's clear that this incident was really affecting them. Major John and Kaylee even shared a meme over Facebook that referred to the infamous story of Leon Gary Plouchet. The meme referenced a well-known case where Gary's 10-year-old son, Jody, was kidnapped and molested by his karate coach, Jeff Doucet, in 1984.
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Jeff had taken Jody to Disneyland, where he repeatedly sodomized the young boy. Now, eventually, Jeff's crimes were exposed to the world, and he was soon arrested. However, unbeknownst to everyone, as Jeff was being extradited back to Louisiana, Jody's father was hiding near a payphone at the airport. After he found out what happened to his son, he wanted to take revenge.
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So, Gary hid that day near the payphone at the airport, waiting for his son's abuser to walk by. Now, he actually was on the phone at the time with his best friend Jimmy. And during that phone call, he sees Jeff walking in his direction, with the police and camera crews from the local news station by his side. And at that moment, Gary whispered to his friend on the phone, Here he comes.
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You're about to hear a shot. And just as Jeff walked by, news cameras rolling, Gary reached into his right boot, spun around, and quickly fired one bullet from his .38 snub-nosed revolver into Jeff's head. Here's the audio from that shooting.
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Now, that case was huge at the time. Everyone in America was watching it all unfold, and most people stood with the killer, Gary Poche. They applauded his actions, and many said that they would have done the same thing if their kid was being abused. Surprisingly, Gary didn't even have to serve prison time for killing his son's abuser.
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Instead, he was given a suspended sentence of seven years, and he had to complete some community service. But for decades, when it comes to child abuse cases, people referenced that Gary story. And still to this day, they talk about how he was a hero. And it seems as if Major John and Kaylee Kaler thought this as well.
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Because after the incident with Devin Smith, they reposted this cartoon photo of Gary shooting Jeff with the title, How to Catch a Predator.
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This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
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Kellogg, Idaho is a small city nestled in the Silver Valley of Shawnee County and surrounded by the Coeur d'Alene Mountains. The town, named after prospector Noah Kellogg in 1885, derived from a legend that Noah stumbled upon a rich galena with the help of his wandering donkey. Today, a local sign reads, this is the town founded by a jackass and inhabited by his descendants.
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At 7.20 p.m., a 911 call came into the police department indicating shots were fired around 515 Brown Avenue in Kellogg. Shortly after that, a second 911 call came in from the shooter himself. During the call, he told the dispatcher, This is Major John Kaler. I just went downstairs and executed a fucking pedophile and his family. The dispatcher asked, You shot somebody?
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And Major John replied, I shot four people. They're all dead. At 7.24pm, four minutes after the 911 call was placed, Sergeant Jared Bulaski of the Shoshone County Sheriff's Department arrived at the scene and saw Major John Kaler outside on the street with another neighbor named Hunter Jones.
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Not fully understanding what had happened, Sergeant Bulaski approached Major John and he admitted that he had just shot his neighbors. The officer responded, You what? And Major John repeated that he had shot and killed his four neighbors. Sergeant Belaski asked Major John if he was still armed with the weapon, and he admitted that he had put the gun away.
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The officer then ordered Major John to the ground, but he was in some pain as he had just broken his shoulder. now as major john was being handcuffed sergeant belaski looked over at hunter their neighbor and stated that he was going to pat her down for weapons but major john stated that hunter had nothing to do with what was going on she seemed to be just as confused as he was
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As you can imagine, Sergeant Belaski was dumbfounded over the call he just responded to. It's not every day that you're the first officer on the scene of a quadruple homicide. And as Major John was being handcuffed, Sergeant Belaski was still trying to get an understanding of what happened here.
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Major John told the officer that his neighbor was a pedophile and that the police department refused to do anything about it. He admitted that minutes earlier, when he encountered Devin's mother and grandpa outside, he tried to talk to them about what happened, but they told him that there was nothing they could do.
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And in that moment, Major John said he snapped and killed everyone in the apartment.
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In the early 20th century, the town was a booming mining hub, centered around the Bunker Hill Mine, which was, at the time, one of the world's leading producers of lead. At its peak, the town catered to over 6,000 residents. However, after the Bunker Hill Mine closure in 1981, the town was deserted.
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As officers looked around the property, they were met with a horrific scene. Outside the ground floor apartment, in the backyard, Kenneth and Kenna Guardipi lay dead. Kenna was located face up near the exterior concrete steps to apartment A. Near her body was the body of her father, Kenneth. His body was located partially on the concrete steps and partially in a garden next to the steps.
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Around their bodies, police located several .45 caliber shell casings. From here, the officers went into the apartment. 16-year-old Akin Smith was located between the living room and kitchen on his stomach. Only one .45 caliber bullet casing was found near his body. Then they found 18-year-old Devin Smith.
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As soon as they stepped foot in his bedroom, they knew that he was the intended target that evening. He was found on his knees face down with his head riddled with bullets. Several .45 caliber casings were found around his body. This was overkill. and all four victims had been murdered execution-style.
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Now, later that night, investigators were able to get a search warrant for Major John's black 2022 Dodge Ram, and inside of it, on the driver's seat, they found his belt, holster, and semi-automatic pistol. It was later discovered that there was blood and tissue on the gun, which proved Major John had shot his victims at close range. Inside the gun, they found one bullet in the chamber.
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And nearby, underneath the driver's seat, they found an empty magazine, which meant that Major John had reloaded his gun during the shooting.
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Thousands of people were out of work, and the threat of lead contamination made it a super fun site. Businesses closed and people left, leaving behind a shell of a once prosperous town. Today, Kellogg is home to over 2,000 residents and has reinvented itself as a resort town with the development of new restaurants, hotels, condos, shops, a water park, and a golf course.
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That's why this happened. Because no one would do anything about it and I'm not okay with that. I'm not going to let something happen to my fucking kids. I understand, man. And his mother's telling me. He can do whatever he wants. There's nothing you can do about it. So I'm like, you're okay with his behavior? He's never had any repercussions and the whole town is aware of it.
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But no one will do anything about it. Look, dude, it's infuriating. I mean, I... I have three kids.
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Detective Klitsch read Major John his Miranda rights and then continued on with the questioning. Major John admitted that he snapped, lost it, and did something about it. However, he then told the detective that he wanted an attorney and the interview was concluded.
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From here, Major John was taken to the Shoshone County Jail, where he was held without bond and ultimately charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of burglary. But as the news spread around the small town of Kellogg, Idaho, the community was shaken. Here's some audio of the neighbors in the area and their reaction to the shooting.
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Each year, thousands of tourists flocked to the Silver Mountain Resort, a popular skiing and snowboarding destination, accessible by the world's longest single-cabin gondola from the city of Kellogg to the lodge on Kellogg Mountain.
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A preliminary hearing for Major John was scheduled for July 3rd, 2023, just weeks after he fatally shot four neighbors. During his first court appearance on June 20th, Shoshone County Prosecuting Attorney Benjamin Allen described the crime scene as relatively horrific and noted that one of the victims, 16-year-old Akin Smith, was only a child. In the courtroom, he stated...
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During a police news conference on that same day, Lt. Paul Berger with the Idaho State Police said,
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this is a tragic situation that will affect the kellogg community detectives continue working to establish a timeline and what led to the shooting according to the charging documents the deaths of kenneth and kenna were premeditated and or to execute vengeance and the deaths of aiken and devin were premeditated to execute vengeance and or committed in the perpetration of a burglary
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But on June 18, 2023, the quiet city would become known for something else, when it was thrust into the spotlight by a shocking crime where four people would lose their lives.
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If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
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On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact.
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I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show. than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
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Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
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The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
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Interestingly, Kenna Guardapie's loved ones seemed to jump to her defense after the murders. One friend even told the public that Kenna was well aware of Devin's issues and that she was working hard to get him the help he needed. But Kenna's name was also dragged through the mud. People were upset with the fact that she had allegedly made excuses for Devin's behavior.
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But her loved ones said that despite what the public has said about her, Kenna was an incredible person.
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Shortly after the murders, Major John's brother, Buddy Kaler, created a GoFundMe for Kaylee and her three children. It read, My name is Buddy Kaler, and I'm trying to raise money for my sister-in-law and three small children for rent, groceries, and the necessities to live after a tragic event.
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After enduring unthinkable sexual harassment by a neighbor, the current situation has left my brother in jail and the three kids and mom without a provider. Thank you for your donations. Anything helps. Today, the GoFundMe is no longer accepting donations. However, it raised $4,529 with a goal of only $4,000. So, as you can see, members of their community felt for the Kaler family.
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Kaylee had been a stay-at-home mom, and now that her husband was in jail, she was going to have to raise their three children all on her own. But their family was very relieved, when on June 21, 2023, the prosecuting attorney, Benjamin Allen, stated that the state of Idaho would not be seeking the death penalty in Major John's trial. Benjamin stated,
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After careful consideration and discussion with the victim's family, our office has made the choice to remove the death penalty as a sentencing option, which will set the path of criminal procedure in this case on course as a non-capital first-degree murder.
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This decision comes as a result of careful consideration of the realities of death penalty statistics within our state, as well as discussions with the family members of the victims involved in this tragic event.
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july 3 2023 the preliminary hearing from major john was rescheduled and a gag order was issued by the shoshone county district court shoshone county prosecuting attorney benjamin allen was set to present witnesses to convince magistrate judge keisha oxendine to move forward with the case against major john but he as well as the defense stated that they needed more time to gather evidence and witnesses
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Although it was rescheduled, Benjamin filed a list of witnesses he already had, including the Spokane County Medical Examiner, the Shoshone County Coroner, the 911 operator, the neighbor who originally called 911, multiple police officers including Sgt. Jared Belaski and Detective Justin Klitsch, and Major John's wife, Kaylee Kaler.
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During this time, Major John sat and waited in the Shoshone County Jail, awaiting his next court appearance. On October 20, 2023, Major John's defense attorney, James Siebe, filed a motion to suppress the statements he had given to Sergeant Jared Bulaski and Detective Klitsch on June 18, 2023, arguing a Fifth Amendment violation.
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The court documents stated that Detective Klitsch failed to read Major John his Miranda rights before he made incriminating statements to the officers.
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james siebe asked the court to throw out everything major john said due to the fact that major john had been coerced into speaking by detective klitsch after he mentioned the podcast about sexual predators and kaylee's facebook post about devon on november 8th the prosecution and defense team argued in front of a judge in wallace idaho
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Major John was the type of guy who liked to work with his hands. In the years prior, according to his Facebook, John worked as a choker-setter-rigging man at Park & Forestry, which is essentially someone who fastens steel cables around logs to prepare them for hauling. But in 2023, he was working as an underground miner at Idaho Strategic Resources.
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On March 19, 2024, friends and relatives of the four victims poured into the courtroom to read their victim impact statements. They urged the judge to give Major John the maximum sentence allowed, life in prison without the possibility of parole.
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The first statement was read by Kenneth's brother, Joe Guardipi, who compared the pain of losing his family members to the pain he experienced in the Vietnam War. He said, you viciously massacred and mutilated him with a large amount of lead bullets. You decided to be judge and jury. You decided to take matters into your own hands.
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You decided it was okay to take the lives of four of my family members. You said you snapped. Did you snap when you told a coworker you were going to do something that would get you in trouble later? Did you snap when you loaded two magazines to the maximum with ammunition? Did you snap when you strapped on a semi-automatic pistol?
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So, by all accounts, Major John was a hands-on in all of his careers, working physically demanding jobs that reflected his blue-collar lifestyle. And luckily, his job allowed his wife Kaylee to stay home with their three children. At the time of our story, all was well with the Kaler family. They were happy, healthy, they had stability, and they lived in a good home at 515B Brown Avenue.
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Did you snap when you crept around casing the apartments looking for your victims prior to the incident? Did you snap when you confronted them and continuously pulled the trigger until both magazines were empty? You said you were protecting your children. Let me ask you who's protecting them now. All you did was traumatize them.
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They will spend the rest of their lives knowing their father is nothing more than a two-bit killer. They may even be blaming themselves for this wicked event. let alone the peer pressure they'll have to contend with as they grow. What a man you are. Not only did you destroy my family, but yours as well."
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On March 25, 2024, Major John Kaler was escorted into a packed courtroom in Wallace, Idaho. As Shoshone County District Court Judge Barbara Duggan handed down her sentence, Major John stared ahead, emotionless. Ultimately, he received the maximum penalty for his actions, life in prison without the possibility of parole. The judge told him, The event is a particularly heinous event.
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You've taken four individuals from this community based on your decision." After handing down the sentence, friends and family members were allowed to speak to Major John directly and let him know that his decision that evening changed their lives forever. Ken Aguadipi's mother, Jerry Silva, said, We lost three generations. I haven't seen, heard, or touched my kids in nine months. I can't sleep.
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Devin and Aiken's grandfather, David Silva, told Judge Duggan, He killed an entire branch of our family tree. Never any great-grandchildren to watch grow up. I lost my best friend, referring to Aiken. He spent hundreds of hours volunteering throughout the community. An entire beautiful family, taken by one person.
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As for Major John Kaler, he refused to say anything and responded, no thank you, when Judge Duggan asked if he wanted to address the court. As Major John was escorted out of the courtroom, Kaley broke down crying.
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Now, this home was actually a duplex and they lived on the upper level, but it was perfect for them. There were two bedrooms, one bathroom, and most importantly, a nice backyard where the kids could run and play. And for years, the Kaler family called this place home.
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This week, we will be making a donation to Faces of Hope, a nonprofit organization based in Boise, Idaho, that is dedicated to supporting victims of violence and abuse. They offer a 24-7 crisis line, counseling, legal help, and basic necessities for people affected by domestic violence, sexual assault, child abuse, elder abuse, human trafficking, and stalking.
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Hey everybody, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. This was an insanely tragic story and just hard to believe all around. It's one of those stories that I know, at least for Courtney and I, definitely stuck with us after we first learned about what exactly had happened here. It's just horrible.
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However way you look at this entire equation, it's just horrible. But regardless, thank you everybody for tuning into the show this week. If you want to help support Murder in America, please consider joining us on Patreon. On our Patreon, you can get early ad-free access to all of our shows. So if you hate the ads, you can go on Patreon and get the episodes completely ad-free.
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and for higher tiers we actually have bonus content bonus episodes of the show these are full-length bonus episodes of murder in america with both courtney and i the sound design the same scripts the same length so if you like the show and you've never signed up for patreon and you want to listen to more murder in america maybe you're out of episodes definitely consider joining our patreon and immediately getting access to that entire library of bonus content
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there's over 100 120 i believe episodes on there that you can listen to right now if you sign up also please do not forget to leave us a five star review on apple podcasts or spotify or wherever you listen to this show and be sure to follow us on instagram at murder in america to see photos from every single case that we cover anyways y'all thank you so much for joining us this week courtney and i will be back next week with another story
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sadly here in america we are never going to run out of stories to talk about and discuss and raise awareness around but regardless have a great rest your week slash weekend and i'll catch you on the next one
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Now, Devin Smith was born in 2005, so in 2023, he was 18 years old, and he had just graduated from Kellogg High School in late May. According to his family, he had planned to become a hoistman. As for his younger brother, Aiken, he was about to enter his senior year at Kellogg High.
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According to friends, Aiken had big dreams of joining the military after high school and was a member of the Junior ROTC. He volunteered at the Wallace Elks and spent the previous Memorial Day traveling with his ROTC group to local cemeteries to honor fallen soldiers with a 21-gun salute. He also enjoyed carrying the colors in Veterans Day parades.
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In a social media post in 2022, Aiken wrote, "...received two national-level awards from the MCJROTC program. Joining the program is one of the best decisions I have ever made, and I wouldn't change it for anything."
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Together, their family enjoyed spending time outdoors, mountain biking through the Kellogg Trails, hitting the ski slope on Kellogg Mountain, camping, hiking, and picking huckleberries. Being avid outdoorsmen, the family always rode their mountain bikes together every Sunday. It was their ritual.
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Recently, their grandfather, Kenneth, had purchased a 1957 Jeep that needed a lot of work, so he and Akin had spent some quality time together restoring it. When it was finished, Kenneth planned on giving his grandson the Jeep as a gift for all of his hard work.
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EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Now, following this, the Kaler family did call the Shoshone County Sheriff's Department to report what happened. And soon enough, Officer William Eddy was dispatched to the scene. According to him, when he pulled up to the duplex, he spoke with Major John Kaler, who was visibly angry.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
Major John even told the officer that the only reason he had not taken care of Devin himself was because he was recovering from shoulder surgery. However, he stated that if it happened again, he would handle it, and somebody's going to get hurt. The Kalers also called the landlord to make sure they were aware of the situation, but as you can imagine, this was very traumatic for them.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
The little girl who saw Devin that day was just 11 years old, and that's something no 11-year-old girl should ever have to witness. But on top of that, they no longer felt safe within their own home. For years, Kaylee and Major John would let their kids run around in the backyard without a care in the world. They knew that it was a safe space for them to be kids, but not anymore.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
So, soon after this happened, Kaylee Kaler decided to post about it on Facebook. The post read as follows.
Murder In America
EP. 199: IDAHO - The Man Who Killed His Neighbor's Family: The Majorjon Kaylor Murders
And apparently, Devin Smith had a sordid history of being inappropriate, at least according to some residents in Kellogg. After Kaylee posted her story, one resident chimed in and responded with this.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now I wasn't able to find anything about her dog, Honey, but I can assume she was safe because Billy wanted this to look like an accident, like Phoebe died of natural causes and his plan worked.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
despite finding a bloody pillow next to her body and her valuables being missing the medical examiner listed her death as natural causes phoebe perry decided to move to edgmere with her dog after her husband died years prior but in her younger years she had dedicated her life to caring for animals she actually worked with the spca of texas and she was the driving force behind the organization getting a vehicle to rescue animals from abuse and cruelty situations
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
SPCA spokeswoman Maura Davies said, She was a gentle soul. She was an exceptionally kind woman. She had a very quiet voice, but she could command the presence of a room full of people. She had tremendous visions for how the SPCA of Texas could help animals.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now, after the deaths of these three women, their families had reported to Edgemere that their valuables were missing, which made security guard Jose Alman suspicious. Now, Jose was told that these women died of natural causes, so he wasn't thinking they had been murdered.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But the fact that their valuables were missing didn't sit right with him, and something told him it had to do with that ex-employee Benjamin Coitaba, who we know is actually Billy Chermiermere. If he was posing as a maintenance man, then maybe he was the one taking their valuables. So it's here when Jose Allman decided to do his own investigating.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
He started by looking at the electronic logs from the women's doors. On the mornings of their deaths, he saw that their doors were open from the inside and then closed. Then roughly 10 minutes later, the doors were open from the inside again, and then closed again. Now, unfortunately, there weren't any cameras directly in front of these women's rooms, but there were cameras down the hallway.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So Jose pulled up the footage and what do you know, right after these women's doors were closed, Benjamin or Billy came walking down the hallway. So by this point, Jose is positive that this is the man stealing valuables from these elderly women. But at this point, he doesn't put two and two together. that these women are possibly getting murdered.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
After all, the ME was ruling their deaths as natural. So in his mind, Billie was simply a thief. But nonetheless, Jose does alert the Dallas Police Department and surprise, surprise, nothing was done. However, a few weeks later on June 18th, 2016, Billy Chemermere would return to Edgemere, and this time, they were ready.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Upon seeing him, Jose, his supervisor, and a few employees jumped into action, and they confronted Billy as he was leaving the facility. They actually placed him in a headlock and barricaded him inside of their conference room.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
now while they waited for dallas pd to respond jose notices that billy is holding this manila envelope so they look through it inside is an unloaded gun a huge diamond and a diamond tester when the edgemere employees see this they are disgusted they yell out insults at billy calling him a thief But in return, he just stares at them with this eerie smile.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
They also couldn't help but notice that he had scratches and bruises all over his arms. Now, eventually, Dallas PD shows up and they find an ID which says his name is Benjamin Coitaba. But then they find another ID that said his name was Billy Chamirmire. So from there, they arrest him. But somehow, they still didn't connect him to the deaths of these three women.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So this is the story of Billy Chimirmir. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
As far as they were concerned, the women had simply passed from natural causes and Billy had swept in to collect their valuables.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now, after getting arrested, Billy ended up pleading no contest and was ordered to remain in jail for 70 days. However, he was released after only serving 12 days for good behavior. But the Dallas Police Department had no idea that they had just let a serial killer walk free, one that would go on to kill over a dozen more people. no one knew just how dangerous this man truly was.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Well, except for his girlfriend, Margaret. Like we mentioned, she had called the police on Billy in 2012 for domestic violence, but after he got out of jail, she decided to stay with him, mostly because she found out she was pregnant with his child.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
now billy made it very clear that he didn't want this baby and after he was born he actually disappeared for six months eventually however he would come back but they weren't a happy family like always billy had that same old short temper he would often subject margaret to horrible physical verbal and emotional abuse even threatened to kill her saying that he could easily take their son back to kenya and leave her body in the freezer
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now, for the sake of their child, Margaret put up with his abuse, but she lived in constant fear. She knew that Billy was a disturbed individual, but she truly had no idea of the darkness he was capable of. After getting released from jail after the Edgemere incident, Billy Shamirmir knew that he couldn't go back there, but he wasn't ready to stop killing.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So he just had to find another senior living facility to target, and he ended up picking one in Dallas called The Tradition. Like Edgemere, The Tradition is a luxury, independent living community for senior citizens, and it's considered to be Dallas' crown jewel in retirement living. Its slogan was, "'It's just like home, only better.'"
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
in 2016 the facility had a number of amenities including a movie theater restaurants state-of-the-art exercise rooms indoor pools and on-site health care here's a video from their website everyone has traditions our tradition is built around providing our residents a vibrant hassle-free lifestyle with the amenities services and design that we're known for
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
The tradition prided itself on not only being a place of luxury, but also of security, which is why many people chose to live there. They claim to provide 24 seven security, visitor management, security cameras all over the property, and concierge doing round-the-clock checks for suspicious activity.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But that didn't seem to be the case because in April of 2016, before Billy Chimirmire had been arrested, it seemed as if he had already targeted this place. 82-year-old Joyce Amber Mowitz had lived at the Tradition in Unit 208. That April, she had just arrived home after a three-week vacation to find that $3,500 of jewelry had been taken from her jewelry box.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
including a sapphire ring, a diamond heart pendant, and an antique bracelet. Now Joyce also saw that there was no forced entry, so immediately she assumed it was one of the employees. She even filed a police report, but nothing ever came of it. And after this incident, Joyce was worried. The thought of a stranger coming into her home and snooping through her things was terrifying.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So following this, she went out and bought a safe where she hid the remainder of her valuables, which were worth about $5,000. But sadly, three months later, on July 18th, 2016, just five days after Billy Chimirmere was released from jail, he would come back for more. He would enter Joyce's apartment again, taking the entire safe and the remainder of her jewelry.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But sadly, this time, Joyce would not be able to report it to the police because she was dead. Like the others, her cause of death was listed as natural causes and no foul play was suspected. But less than two weeks later, Billy Chimirmere would strike again.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
For 83-year-old Juanita Purdy, the glitz and glamour of tradition had been one of the reasons she had decided to move there with her husband, Jim, in 2010. Sadly, Jim would pass away two years later, but luckily by then, Juanita had found a really great group of friends within the facility.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
In fact, she and her best friends all lived on the fourth floor, and they called themselves the Fourth Floor Ladies. They were all older and widowed, but they all found comfort in each other. Every week, they would even have themed parties together, and everyone in the facility described them as spunky.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
animated and fun on july 30th 2016 the fourth floor ladies had all planned to get together for a seven course dinner with wine tasting they had been looking forward to it all week but after everyone sat down at the table they couldn't help but notice that juanita's seat was empty
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Just 13 days after murdering Joyce, Billy made his way back under the property and knocked on the front door of apartment 439. Inside, 83-year-old Juanita Purdy was reading the newspaper and drinking some tea. She had also pulled out some nail polish so she could do her nails, but her morning plans were interrupted when a maintenance man knocked on her door.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now, Juanita hadn't made a maintenance request, but she opened the door anyway, and from there, like the others, she was attacked. Billy Tremiermere pushed her into her bedroom, and while lying on her bed, he smothered her with a pillow. The last moments of Juanita's life were undeniably horrifying, and within a few minutes, she was dead.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Afterwards, Billy grabbed her valuables and then left the facility unnoticed. Later that day, Traditions director Edmundo Sanchez went into Juanita's apartment to find her deceased. From there, he quickly called Juanita's daughter, Diana, to tell her the heartbreaking news, that Juanita had passed away in her sleep. But when Diana arrived that day, something seemed off.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
That day's newspaper was spread out onto the table next to an open bottle of fingernail polish and a cup of tea. So clearly that meant that Juanita didn't die in her sleep. She had been awake that morning, but when she brought this up to the director, he assured her that Juanita probably got up, started her morning, and then started to feel bad, so she laid back down in bed.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Edmundo said that that's likely when she passed.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now due to her age, no autopsy was performed and the medical examiner ruled that Juanita's death had been caused by hypertensive cardiovascular disease. But in the weeks after her passing, her daughter Diana had the difficult task of going through her mother's apartment and packing the rest of her belongings.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Shockingly, the box where Juanita kept her wedding ring was empty, as well as her entire box of jewelry that had recently been appraised at $33,000. Immediately, Diana notified Tradition's management, and they promised to do an investigation. However, that never happened.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So that July, there were two unexpected deaths at the facility, and both of these women had thousands of dollars of valuables stolen from their apartment. But nothing ever came of it. Even worse, the Tradition didn't even alert the other residents about the thefts. And soon enough, Billy Shamirmir would come back for more.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Less than three weeks after Juanita's murder, on August 19th, 2016, another one of the fourth floor ladies at Tradition would pass away. This time, it was 83-year-old Leah Corkin. The day before, Leah and her daughter MJ had spent the day shopping and she was perfectly normal. So the following day when MJ got a call that her mother was dead, she was shocked.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
She quickly made her way over to Tradition. But as soon as she stepped inside of apartment 407, there were red flags. Now Leah's body was still in the apartment. And to MJ's surprise, she was found lying face down on the living room floor. but her walker that she used to get around was in the kitchen. Even further, it didn't appear as if she had fallen.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
In fact, Leah's body was in a perfectly straight line. MJ also noticed that the back of her mom's hair was completely messed up, which was strange because Leah had just gone to the hairdresser that very morning. She was also very meticulous about the way she presented herself. Leah Corkin never left the house without her hair, makeup, and nails done.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So seeing her hair all matted up in the back just didn't make sense, especially because she was found lying face down. And the more MJ walked around the apartment, the more suspicious she became. In Leah's bedroom, MJ found a pillow that was stained with makeup. This was another red flag because her mother always washed her face before getting into bed.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now by this point, it was time for them to remove Leah's body from the apartment. But when they turned her over, MJ couldn't believe her eyes. Her mother's nose was completely broken, pointing at a weird angle. In addition, MJ noticed that her mom's wedding ring wasn't on her finger. Now Leah's husband John died in 2009, but even after his death, Leah never took that ring off.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So from here, MJ spoke with the facility's director, Edmundo Sanchez. She told him about the ring, her mom's crooked nose, the makeup on the pillow, and everything. But he was quick to brush it aside. He said that she likely got her injuries from falling, and the missing wedding ring? Well, that will eventually show back up, he said.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
He even told MJ to check the drawer where Leah kept her underwear. MJ would later say that Edmundo's speech almost sounded rehearsed. And by this point, it might've been, given that three other women's families had been asking the same questions. But even then, nothing would happen.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Thank you.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Because of Leah Corkin's age, the medical examiner listed that she died of natural causes and no foul play was suspected. But less than two weeks later, Billy Shamirmeir would murder another woman on the fourth floor of the Tradition Senior Living facility.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now, sadly, there isn't a lot of information about 87-year-old Margaret White, but we do know that she was found dead inside of her apartment and that her jewelry boxes had been emptied. By this point, Billy Shamirmeir was comfortable in his crimes. He knew exactly when and where to sneak onto the property without anyone noticing. He knew how to quickly subdue the victims and how to kill them.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Margaret was the fourth woman killed at Tradition in just about a month's time. But still, law enforcement and the Tradition management didn't suspect a thing.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
By this point, from April to October, it's suspected that Billy Chemermere had taken the lives of seven women, three at Edgemere and four at Tradition, and he was about to take his eighth life. But this time, he would deviate from his M.O. and target a male victim, 89-year-old Solomon Spring. Solomon also lived at the Tradition. And on October 2nd, 2016, his daughter Marcia came to visit him.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But what she would find within his apartment would haunt her for the rest of her life. Unlike the other victims, it appeared as if Solomon put up more of a fight. When his daughter walked inside, she found her dad dead in a pool of blood. And there was actually blood all over that apartment. It was inside of his bedroom, his bathroom. There were even blood trails throughout. Marsha was horrified.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Within the upscale Dallas neighborhood of Preston Hollow is a senior living community called Edgemere, which caters to very wealthy senior citizens. It has many luxurious amenities like an indoor swimming pool, an area to play golf, and a luxury salon and spa. Some of the condos within this facility are listed for $1 million. So it's a place that not everyone can afford to live at.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
She quickly called for help, but as she looked around, it also seemed like there was evidence of a struggle. There was a random bloody lamp on the floor and a two by four piece of wood on the bathroom counter. Now, thankfully, because of the circumstances in this death, law enforcement actually launched an investigation.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
And in it, they discovered that Solomon had some valuables taken from his apartment, including an expensive ring. This was the first time that investigators believed foul play was involved. But soon enough, they would change their minds. After Solomon's body was taken in for an autopsy, the medical examiner ruled his death an accident.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
They found that he had extensive head injuries as well as injuries to his ribs. But in the end, they believe that Solomon was inside of the bathroom, stumbled out, hit his head on the lamp and collapsed in the living room. Now as for that random two by four, they had no idea where that came into play. They also just completely ignored the fact that his valuables had been stolen.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
And from there they closed the case. Now it's not typical for killers to change up their MO, but it's also not unheard of. Perhaps Billy Chimirmere was snooping around Tradition, trying to find a victim, and Solomon Spring happened to cross his path. Maybe it was a crime of opportunity, or maybe he just wanted to try something new. We don't know. But upon entering his apartment...
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Billy Tremere quickly realized that Solomon was not as easy to kill as the other seven women. Standing over him and putting a pillow over his face wasn't working. So that's when he likely decided to use that lamp and possibly that two by four. It's believed that after a brief struggle, Billy grabbed the objects and hit Solomon over the head until he was dead.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Then from there, he grabbed the valuables and he left. But one thing we do know, if Billy is responsible for his murder, he wasn't a fan of this kill. Billy preferred his murders quick and clean. So from this point on, he would never target another male.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all. But let's get back to the story. Following the murder of Solomon Spring, the Tradition now had five mysterious deaths at their facility within just a few short months, and all the victims had valuables missing. But still, management and the police refused to acknowledge that anything sinister had occurred.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
It wouldn't be until the sixth unexpected death that the Dallas Police Department finally decided to open a theft investigation. And by this point, the residents at the Tradition started to grow concerned as well. 85-year-old Norma French had been living alone in her family home ever since her husband died in 2006.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But as she grew older, she found that she was needing more assistance, so she decided to start looking for a senior living facility. She and her husband toured several around Dallas, but she ended up settling on the tradition because it was the most luxurious and was also supposedly the safest.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
You have to have money. Their website says, the pinnacle of senior living, an elegant setting for an extraordinary life. Amid Tuscan-inspired architecture and vibrant social gatherings, Edgemere stands as a symbol of distinguished Dallas living, which is exactly why many of the residents at Edgemere chose to live there. It's a beautiful place where they felt cared for and secure.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
and security was norma's top priority norma had really liked living at the tradition that is until all of her friends started dying now typically the tradition had about three deaths per year so after watching five of her peers die unexpectedly within a few short months norma started to get scared there had been whispers around the facility about the strange happenings sudden deaths men snooping around the complex and valuables going missing
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Norma was so concerned she even thought about moving out, but everyone assured her that she was fine.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
In September of 2016, Norma had traveled to Indianapolis to visit her daughter, Ellen. And during their trip, she talked about the upcoming football game she was excited for. Her alma mater, UT Austin, was playing against the Oklahoma Sooners. Norma had thought about going to the game in person, but decided that it would be easier to watch from the comfort of her living room.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now, when game day finally came around, her family was very disappointed because the Longhorns lost 45 to 50. Norma's daughter, Ellen, knew that her mom would be upset about it So once the game ended, she called her. But strangely enough, Norma didn't answer. Now this was very concerning for Ellen. Her mom always answered the phone.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So from here, she called Tradition Management for a welfare check. Soon enough, the employees would enter Norma's apartment. And while there, they found her on the floor next to the TV. Paramedics were quickly called to the scene, but it was too late. Norma French was dead. Her other two children, Lori and Michael, who lived in the area, rushed to the scene just as paramedics were leaving.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
When they entered the unit, Norma's body was hidden underneath a blanket and they immediately took it off. And just like with Leah Corkin, her body was lying in a perfectly straight line. face down on the ground. The facility's director, Edmundo Sanchez, arrived to speak with the family and told them that Norma had most likely died of a heart attack. And originally, they agreed with him.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But as they looked around Norma's apartment that day, something didn't feel right. Over on the kitchen counter was Norma's untouched salad that she had made for lunch that day. And on the floor, they saw a single drop of blood next to a set of footprints. But the most concerning thing of all was Norma's ring finger and her diamond wedding ring that she wore every single day was missing.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Her children said that she hadn't taken that ring off in 51 years, even after her husband's death. So it was very clear to them that someone had forcibly removed it from her finger. Now they ended up confronting tradition about this, but they were adamant that their staff was not responsible for the missing ring.
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Traditions Executive Director Rachel Nelson even told the family that the paramedics were likely the ones who stole it. So from here, her family called the Dallas Police Department to inform them that these paramedics were likely stealing jewelry from the deceased. And finally, they started what's called a public integrity investigation.
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Sergeant Helena Davis would lead the investigation, and when she started looking into things, she realized that all six people who had recently died at Tradition had missing jewelry. So she interviewed Tradition's director, Edmundo Sanchez.
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That is, until April 18th, 2016.
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However, once again, he pointed the finger at paramedics, saying that they were the only people who had been left alone with the victims after they were found dead.
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so naturally she wanted to look at the security footage but sadly tradition did not have security cameras on the third and fourth floors which is a huge problem for a facility that promises security but since there was no security footage they couldn't prove that the paramedics were the ones stealing the valuables so the investigation was at a standstill and in the meantime another resident on the fourth floor of tradition would lose their life
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By this point, Billy Tremere was sneaking onto the property every other weekend, murdering someone, stealing their things, and then selling the stolen valuables at a nearby pawn shop. And on the morning of Sunday, October 16th, 2016, he would repeat the process yet again. Now, 87-year-old Glenna Day had been very concerned about the recent deaths at Tradition.
Murder In America
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Security guard Jose Allman took his job at Edgemere very seriously. Most of the time, his job duties were surveilling the area, deescalating conflicts among residents, and helping out with any emergencies. However, this day in particular had been pretty slow. That is until his phone rang. When Jose answered it, the woman on the other end was frantic.
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She herself witnessed numerous friends unexpectedly pass away, without warning. But like many others, she assumed that they had been natural deaths. So to take precaution, she decided to visit her doctor to make sure she was in good health. And luckily for her, she was. In her younger years, Glenna loved to ski, mountain bike, scuba dive, and travel the world.
Murder In America
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After the death of her husband, Jay Burt, Glenna moved to tradition. but she continued to stay active. She loved to dance and she also spent her time restoring old paintings. So she was always on the move. When she went to her doctor's appointment that day, they assured her that she was in perfect health and that she had nothing to worry about.
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But sadly, unbeknownst to her, she too was about to lose her life. On that cold October morning, Billy Tremiermere had snuck onto Tradition's property once again, and he immediately made his way to the fourth floor. Through his experience, Billy knew that there were no cameras on that floor. Along the way, he would pass the rooms of several victims he had already murdered.
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But he hadn't yet tried apartment 427, the very apartment where Glenna Day lived. Maintenance. Inside, Glenna had been working on an old painting. She often got lost in her work and she didn't mind getting a little messy. So when she heard the knock, she quickly wiped the paint off her fingers and opened the front door. Immediately, Billy stepped inside and forced Glenna into the bedroom.
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He threw her down onto the bed and before she could scream for help, he grabbed a pillow and he smothered her. Once Glenna was dead, he left her body on the bed and began looking for valuables. Once he found them, he slipped out of the room and left the property unnoticed. Hours later, Glenna's daughter Cheryl arrived at Tradition to see her mother, but tragically,
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Once she entered her apartment, she found her mother deceased. And like all the others before, Cheryl was immediately suspicious by what she saw. For one, her mom was lying in bed, but she wasn't under the covers. She was lying in a straight line, right on top of the bedding. Now, Cheryl would later say that her mom's bedding was very expensive, around $400.
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And something else that stuck out to her was that her mom's hands had paint on them. Cheryl claimed that her mom would have never gotten into bed without cleaning that paint off.
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so like the others cheryl alerted traditions management and spoke with edmundo sanchez he reassured her that glenna probably started to feel sick as she worked on her painting that morning and when she went to take her nap he said god took her but cheryl knew something was wrong she would later say she never would have laid down on it like that to take a nap it just wouldn't have happened
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But when Cheryl tried to voice her concerns, Tradition dismissed her entirely. And keep in mind, by this point, they were fully aware that most of the recent deaths had been on the fourth floor. They also knew that someone was stealing from their deceased residents. But they never disclosed any of this information, and they kept reassuring everyone that there was nothing to worry about.
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And exactly two weeks later, another Tradition resident would be found dead, this time on the third floor.
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92-year-old Doris Gleason was a very organized woman. Every day, she would walk over to her laptop and check her daily schedule. And once she completed something, she always put a check mark next to it. On this day, October 29th, 2016, Doris had already checked off several activities. including a sewing class she attended that morning.
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She was a resident of Ejmer and she was calling because a strange man had just entered her apartment claiming to be with maintenance, but she never made a maintenance request. Now, after the phone call, Jose checked the system and this resident was not supposed to have any maintenance in her apartment, so this was definitely something of concern.
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Now, all that was left was a birthday party for a resident named Rufus. But Doris would never get to check that off her list because shortly before the birthday party started, she got a knock on her front door. That day, Billy Chimirmere decided to target apartment 367. And as soon as Doris opened her door, she was attacked on her dining room floor. After smothering the 92-year-old to death,
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Billy went through her apartment, grabbing anything of value. It wouldn't be until the following morning when her family started to grow concerned. Doris's daughter, Shannon, picked her mom up from church every Sunday morning. And every week when she arrived, Doris was patiently waiting for her on a bench outside. But this morning, the bench was empty.
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Immediately, Shannon grew worried, but even more so when she went to her mom's apartment and saw that it was unlocked. Shannon carefully opened the door of apartment 367 and there on the floor, she found her mother's body. Soon enough, first responders would arrive and they quickly put Doris into a body bag. But just as they zipped her up, Shannon stopped them.
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She wanted to know if she could grab the jewelry that Doris always wore. In 2003, Doris's daughter, Nancy, died of cancer. But before her death, Nancy had gifted her mom this guardian angel necklace, one that Doris never took off. But when the paramedics unzipped the body bag, the necklace wasn't there.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now from here, Doris was taken to a medical examiner, where of course they listed her death as natural causes. But her daughter Shannon had some questions. When she spoke to Edmundo Sanchez about her mom's missing necklace, he reassured her that it was probably somewhere in the apartment. So Shannon started looking for it.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
And in her search, she found that other items were missing, including $10,000 worth of jewelry and hundreds of dollars in cash. Now, every Friday, Shannon would take her mom to the salon for a 10 a.m. haircut. And while she was at the salon, Shannon would go do her grocery shopping for her, and she would go to the bank to take out some cash for Doris's weekly spending.
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Now, two days prior to finding her mom's body, Shannon had given Doris hundreds of dollars and she always kept that money in her billfold. But as Shannon was looking through her mom's things, she saw that the billfold was empty. So at that very moment, Shannon knew that her mom had been robbed. And from there, she immediately called the police.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Luckily, Dallas PD sent out a crime scene unit, who began dusting for fingerprints inside apartment 367. But while they were doing that, Shannon couldn't shake the feeling that someone had killed her mother to obtain her valuables. She even voiced these concerns to the police, but they told her that, worst case scenario, Doris died naturally and that someone had robbed her after she had passed.
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Now, how they came to this conclusion when Doris was the eighth robbery victim at Tradition who was found dead, we don't know. But Sergeant Helena Davis had started to grow concerned. She had been looking into the paramedics that were responding to these deaths.
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However, the paramedics were eventually cleared due to insufficient evidence to prove or disprove that any robbery had been committed by Dallas Fire and Rescue personnel, which is good because they weren't to blame here. Now, despite months of investigating and victims' loved ones raising concerns, the tradition was still failing to keep their residents safe.
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From there, Jose reviewed the security footage to see if he recognized the man who entered her apartment. And when he did, he knew exactly who it was. Benjamin Coitaba. Edgemere had hired Benjamin as their freelance healthcare aid a few months prior, in February. So why was he pretending to be maintenance?
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You would think that after all these suspicious deaths and robberies occurring on the third and fourth floors, they would at least add some cameras, but they didn't.
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sure enough billy shamir mir would come back on november 16th two weeks after doris gleason's death billy snuck back onto the property trying to find another vulnerable victim posing as a maintenance man billy tried to enter an apartment but luckily the resident inside alerted management and they quickly called the dallas police when officers arrived the mysterious man was gone the employee was able to give a general description
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A suspicious person dressed in a clean suit carrying a satchel. The suspect has been seen on numerous occasions visiting the fourth floor and stated he was there to check for pipe leaks. Responding officers advised us to tighten security. But of course, tradition, incredibly, did not take the advice of Dallas PD and security was not increased.
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In the weeks after her mom's death, Doris Gleason's daughter Shannon couldn't shake the feeling that something sinister was happening at the tradition. So in December of 2016, she did some investigating of her own and what she found was horrifying. Shannon learned about the deaths of the other victims and how every single one of them died unexpectedly and they were missing jewelry and valuables.
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After gathering all of the documentation, Shannon even sent everything to a reporter for the Dallas Morning News. The information she gathered had pointed towards a disturbing possibility that a serial killer was lurking in their community.
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targeting the elderly but this reality almost seemed too far-fetched so much so the dallas morning news didn't run the story so with no other option shannon decided to post a review of tradition on yelp and google she wrote quote the food and ambiance are delightful the security is unacceptable
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I urge everyone considering living here to evaluate how easy it is for uninvited outsiders to have unmonitored access to residential floors." She also wrote about the reported trespasser, numerous deaths, and mysterious robberies. For Shannon, she knew the review couldn't save her mother, but she hoped that maybe it could save somebody else. And it might have.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
because her mother was the last victim Billy would target at this facility. Well, at least for now.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Interestingly, that December, Traditions Security did have to remove a trespasser off the property, but it's unknown if that person was Billy. If it was, he seemed to have gotten a little spooked, because he stopped coming back. I guess after they saw his face, he knew he couldn't come back, which is exactly what happened at Edgemere earlier that year.
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But as 2016 turned to 2017, the community of Dallas, Texas had no idea that a serial killer had murdered at least 11 people at two different senior living facilities. And sadly, he would go on to murder at least a dozen more.
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By March of 2017, the residents at Tradition were feeling a lot more safe. There hadn't been any unexpected deaths in several months. And interestingly, that's because Billy Chermirmir had entered a cooling off period, which is described as, quote, the significant time interval between murders where the offender returns to their normal life, end quote.
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Now, the reasoning for Billy's cooling off period is still unknown. Perhaps he felt like he was garnering too much attention. Maybe he had made enough money from pawning his victim's jewelry that he decided to take a break. Or maybe he decided to focus his attention on his young son. We don't know.
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Jose didn't know exactly what was going on, but one thing he knew for sure was that Benjamin had trespassed in this women's apartment. So Jose actually fired him on the spot. He also called the police and got him trespassed from the property. And before leaving, Jose warned him that if he ever came back, he would be arrested.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But for nearly a year after the murder of Doris Gleeson, there are no known victims of Billy Tremiermere. However, by the summer of 2017, he was itching to kill again. And this time, he would target another luxury senior facility called Parkview in Frisco, Texas. Now like Edgemere and Tradition, Parkview prided themselves on their security, but the state of the facility would prove otherwise.
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Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
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According to residents, the security gates that surrounded the building were often broken and left open. The front door to the building didn't even close all the way and oftentimes employees left it propped open. So when Billy came across this facility, he knew that he would be spending a lot of time here and that he did. In August of 2017,
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A private caregiver named Don Louie had been working with a resident at Parkview. And one day, as she was leaving, she saw Billy Tremiermer walking around the complex. Don actually confronted him, asking who he was there to visit. Billy told her that he was visiting a woman named Maria, and Don informed him that he needed to go check in at the front desk.
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But instead of going to the front, Don watched him get into his car and leave. but something felt off. So much so, Dawn actually reported him to management and she went around telling residents to lock their doors. Over the next week, Dawn said she saw the same man two more times, lurking around the hallways and stairwells of building number five.
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The second time, Dawn approached him and told him that he needed to leave. And he did. But then the third time, she didn't even have to say a word. The two made eye contact and she said he immediately left the facility. Now, each time she saw him, Dawn reported it to management. And the third time, she even called the Frisco police. But Dawn said that after that, she never saw the man again.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
However, he would come back.
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EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
it seemed as if billy shamir mir had been scoping the place out checking the security and walking around to see which buildings had cameras and which ones didn't but by september 2nd 2017 nearly a year after killing doris gleason he was ready to murder again That evening, he slipped onto the property without anyone noticing, and walked over to building 5.
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From there, he would make his way up to the third floor. It's suspected that Billy actually caught 82-year-old Helen Lee outside of her apartment. She had just come back from dinner with friends. It's likely that upon seeing her, Billy convinced Helen that he needed to do maintenance inside of her apartment. and being the loving and trusting person she was, she allowed him inside.
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But before Helen could even take her purse off of her shoulder, Billy pushed her down onto the floor, grabbed a nearby pillow, and smothered her. He then rummaged through her apartment looking for valuables and left. The following morning, September 3rd, Helen's granddaughter, Lindsay, noticed that her grandma had missed church, which was very uncommon.
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So afterwards, she drove to Parkview to check on her. When Lindsay entered her apartment, she found her grandmother dead face down on the ground, next to her walking cane. Her purse was still strapped on her shoulder. Ultimately, Helen's granddaughter was told that she most likely passed away from a heart attack or stroke, and her death was attributed to natural causes.
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But following this interaction, Jose Allman couldn't help but feel this uneasiness within him. His intuition was telling him that this guy was bad news. And he was right, because Benjamin Koibada wasn't even his real name. That was his alias. The man's real name was Billy Chemermere.
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But two weeks later, Helen's best friend at Parkview, 90-year-old Marilyn Bixler, would also be found dead.
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On September 17th, 2017, Billy Tremiermer slipped right into the facility without anyone noticing. And once inside, he walked up to the apartment of Marilyn Bixler. Marilyn's daughter, Cheryl, said that her mom was healthy, active, and full of life. In fact, for her 90th birthday, her family had flown her to Cabo San Lucas, where she took a shot of tequila and said, quote, "'91, here I come.'"
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However, she never knew that she would never reach that milestone. Marilyn had moved to Parkview after the death of her husband, Chuck, and she really loved it there. She even served as their welcome ambassador, making new residents feel comfortable settling into their new homes.
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She was also on Parkview's brochure where she was quoted saying, quote, the people here to me, they are just cream of the crop of humanity. So I just feel like the people of Parkview are handpicked. The management is so willing to just bend over backwards to make it pleasant to live here. Now, like we mentioned before, Marilyn's best friend was Helen Lee.
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The two were always seen dining together and they both lived on the third floor. Marilyn was devastated to learn that her friend had passed. And sadly, she was about to meet the same fate as Helen Lee. After hearing a knock on her front door, Marilyn opened it and within seconds, a stranger was pushing her onto the living room floor.
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Immediately, Marilyn knew that her life was in danger and she put up a fight. In the process, the glasses she was wearing flew off her face. getting completely bent in the process. The right eyeglass also came out of frame. By this point, Marilyn was lying in between her couch and coffee table, fighting for her life. But eventually, Billy would overpower her.
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He grabbed a nearby pillow and held it over Marilyn's face until she stopped breathing. And of course, after she was dead, he rummaged through her apartment looking for valuables.
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Marilyn's body would eventually be found by her daughter, Cheryl, and she knew right away that something wasn't right. Like all the others before, the medical examiner said that Marilyn's death was natural, but the scene proved otherwise. If Marilyn had a medical emergency and fell,
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Then why was she found lying in a perfectly straight line, with her glasses completely bent and broken, right next to her? Why was her jewelry missing? And why, two weeks earlier, did Marilyn's best friend, Helen Lee, die under the exact same circumstances? Sadly, no one at Parkview had any idea that a serial killer was targeting their elderly residents.
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And soon enough, Felicia Meermere would come back for more.
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On Sunday, October 29th, 2017, Billy confidently made his way back to Parkview to murder his 14th victim. After sneaking onto the property, he knocked on the door of 93-year-old Kay Lawson. Now, Kay was a shorter woman and she wasn't able to see through the peephole. So instead, she cracked open her door a few inches to see who it was.
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Billy Shamirmere was born in Kenya on December 8, 1972, in Kabanyani village, a suburb of the Eldama ravine. He was born into a large family who was widely respected. In fact, his father, Joel, served as one of the village chiefs. He would live to be 100 years old, and throughout his life, he had three wives and 28 children. Billy was one of the children from his second marriage.
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On the other side, Billy announced that he was there to check her apartment for leaks. But before Kay could even respond, he pushed through her door. Soon enough, this stranger was standing in her apartment with a look of determination in his eyes. Kay was immediately frightened, especially when the man lunged at her. throwing her walker across the room.
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He then pushed her down and grabbed her by the shirt, dragging her frail little body into the living room. Kay was now on her stomach. She tried to crawl away and to scream for help, But before she knew it, the man grabbed a pillow from her couch, straddled over the back of her, and then shoved the pillow under her face, grabbing the back of her head.
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Billie pushed her face into the pillow with so much force, she struggled to breathe. Kay knew with everything in her that these were the very last moments of her life. So all she could do was pray. Billie continued pushing her head into the pillow for several minutes, And eventually, Kay stopped breathing, or so he thought. Kay was actually playing dead.
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Once she made her body go limp, she heard the intruder stand up and start rummaging through her apartment. It was the most scared she had ever been in her 93 years of life. and she didn't dare move a muscle as she laid on the living room floor.
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Eventually, after what felt like an eternity, Kay heard the man leave her apartment, but she was still so scared, she continued laying on the floor, and thank God she did because a few minutes later, he actually came back. Apparently, while he searched her apartment for jewelry, he had dropped a charm on the floor and he came back to retrieve it. But finally, Billy Tremere left
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and Kay was able to get up and call for help. Fortunately, Kay Lawson survived the attack, but she was left with bruises and abrasions on the right side of her face and arms. Now, the Frisco Police Department immediately responded to the scene and started an investigation. They were even able to get DNA off the pillow that was used to smother her.
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Ultimately, it was discovered that there was DNA from an African-American male, but they were unable to get a match. Now, Billy Tremiermer had a record, so I'm not sure why his DNA wasn't already in the system. But clearly it wasn't, because from here, he remained a free man.
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And because his last victim survived, Billy knew that he couldn't come back to Parkview. The assault had been all over the news, so he had to find another senior living facility to target. This time, he found one called Preston Place in nearby Plano, Texas. Now, like all the other facilities, Preston Place marketed themselves as luxurious senior living. Their slogan was, a cruise without the ship.
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They also claimed to be safe and secure. But obviously, that didn't end up being true. Not only did the gate outside of the complex rarely ever work, but they also had minimal security cameras. There were no cameras in the parking lot, and the ones that were around the facility were never turned on.
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Billy also targeted this place because it was originally built as a regular apartment complex, so every single unit was accessible from the outside. At the other facilities, Billy had to enter through a building and then knock on the doors, but here he didn't have to do that.
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interestingly billy also knew this facility pretty well as he had worked there in the past as a caregiver so he knew exactly how relaxed their security was which made it the perfect place to target and sadly between october and december of 2017 three women would all be found dead within their apartments 84 year old minnie campbell 93 year old mamie dalmia and 79 year old diane delahunty
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This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
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Now, after growing up in Kenya, Billy decided that he wanted to be a caregiver. At the time, one of his sisters had already moved to the United States, and she ran a home healthcare business, so Billy decided to follow suit. In 2003, his sister even helped him get his green card so he could move to the United States.
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Now, sadly, there isn't a lot of information about Minnie Campbell and Mamie Del Maya, but 79-year-old Diane Delahunty was described as a social butterfly. For a lot of people, having to move into a senior living facility isn't easy, but Diane made the best of her time there. She had a great group of friends at Preston Place, who were often seen going out for happy hour.
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On one occasion, she and her friends even made shirts that read, who let the girls out? Now on the afternoon of December 5th, 2017, Diane's daughter Lori had taken her out to lunch. Then afterwards, she dropped her back off having no idea that a serial killer was lurking on the premises. Now, Diane was one of Billy's younger victims as she was only in her 70s.
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Diane was also very active for her age. After her daughter dropped her off, Diane made her way upstairs to apartment 1021. She leashed up her dog, Dottie, and then the two made their way outside for an afternoon walk. It's suspected that Billy saw Diane walking her dog and he stalked her from afar. Then when she was finished with her walk,
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Billy followed her back to her apartment, where he attacked her. But Diane Della Hunty put up a fight. During their struggle, Billy would hit her in the head, leaving a tennis ball-sized knot on her forehead. Then, like all the others before, Billy smothered Diane and stole her wedding band, diamond engagement ring, and a gold band she had been gifted on her 50-year anniversary.
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despite the injuries diane had and the missing jewelry her death was considered natural as were the deaths of the other two women at preston place who were murdered by billy now sadly in the months before the murders the management of press in place had actually been worried about their lack of security apparently they had had some vehicle thefts and suspicious persons walking around the property and they even sent out a survey to the residents asking if people would feel safer with more security cameras diane had answered yes
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Now, one of Diane's best friends at Preston Place was a woman named Josie Robertson. She lived in the same building as Diane, and she too had been worried about their lack of security. She even wrote management a note that read, Preston Place is a home to people of advanced age, which makes us more vulnerable.
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cameras would be a deterrent to those intent on doing wrongful actions josie admitted that she never heard back from preston place and no additional cameras were added which is a huge problem for all of the quote-unquote luxury facilities we've mentioned so far these places charge a lot for people to live here
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Like we've mentioned, they are some of the nicest senior living facilities in all of Dallas. A city filled with millionaires, where residents are charged anywhere from $3,000 to $6,000 per month, so you'd expect that security would be a top priority. Now, of course, adding extra cameras around the properties will cost them, but when residents are paying this much, it's the least they can do.
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Once here, he settled down in Dallas and began working as a salesman and a freelance healthcare worker for companies that were owned by his family members. From the outside looking in, he had a promising future. His family members were proud of him for making the move and working hard. But Billy Shamirmir had a propensity for trouble.
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Especially when they market themselves as being secure. If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
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On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on the conspiracy files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do.
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So you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories,
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We're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
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The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
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Two days before Christmas of 2017, Billy Tremere Mirror was ready to strike again, but this time, he wouldn't go back to Preston Place. Instead, he returned to the place where most of his victims had lived, the tradition at Prestonwood. It's unknown why Billy decided to come back, But when he did, he would target 90-year-old Doris Wasserman.
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That afternoon, Doris had just gotten back after spending time with her family for Christmas. And later that evening, her son planned to pick her up for dinner. But when her son finally arrived and knocked on her apartment door, she didn't answer. So he decided to just walk in. But that's when he found his mom dead. lying in bed.
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At first glance, it looked like Doris had just passed away in her sleep, but when he took a closer look, he grew very concerned. Doris's chin was severely bruised, and next to her body, there was mucus on the bed. Even further, Doris always used her walker to get around, but her walker was by the front door, not by her bed.
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Her son knew that his mom wouldn't have been able to get to the bedroom without her walker. So how did she get here? Soon enough, Doris's body was removed from her apartment where they once again ruled that her death was natural. But her family would soon find out that there was $8,500 of jewelry missing from her apartment. But even with this information, No one seemed to bat an eye.
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The year after he moved to the United States, he married a woman in Denton County, but the couple would divorce a few years later in 2006. According to the Dallas Morning News, Billy's ex-wife stated that he just up and left without any warning.
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Doris Wasserman was the 10th unexpected death at Tradition.
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About a week after Doris's death, Billy was on the prowl for another victim. But this time he would murder someone he already knew, 81-year-old Carolyn McPhee. In October 2016, Carolyn's husband, Jack, was diagnosed with a rare nervous system disorder.
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From 2016 to 2018, one of America's most prolific serial killers was operating around Dallas, Texas. And surprisingly, most people don't even know his name. The man in question had murdered at least 22 people within two short years. Believe it or not, nine of his victims lived within the same apartment complex. But surprisingly, he wasn't even on law enforcement's radar.
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So, she actually reached out to a company that provided private healthcare workers, and soon enough, the company sent over a man named Benjamin Coitaba, a name that we know was Billy Shamirmire's alias. Now, Billy had worked for the McPhees for about two and a half months from October of 2016 to January of 2017.
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During that time, he only killed one victim, Doris Gleason, who lived at the Tradition.
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but after murdering doris he went into that cooling off period we talked about but while working for the mac fees it was reported that billy was in their home a total of 24 times and every time he came over he was in their house from 8am to 8pm helping jack get cleaned up fed showered and ready for bed and surprisingly they actually thought really highly of him they said that billy was an excellent caregiver he was a little on the shy side and hardly ever interacted with their family
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But he did a great job caring for Jack, which was the most important thing. Now, by this point, Jack McPhee had already passed, but Carolyn was still in great health. Her son Scott would later tell CBS, She was healthier than me. Oh my gosh, she was a force of nature. She'd just been to the doctor a few weeks before, clean bill of health.
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Her doctor even told her that she'll probably live to be 100. But sadly, she wouldn't get the chance.
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Billy was clearly getting sloppy. He had worked as a caregiver for a number of patients around Dallas, but he never killed any of them. In the beginning, he knew that would be reckless, but now, several years into these killings, with 16 victims under his belt, he decided to target Carolyn McPhee. In the other murders, Billy had to scope out his victims.
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And oftentimes he went into their apartments having no idea what he would find. But with Carolyn, he knew she was wealthy. He also knew the layout of her home. So on the morning of December 31st, 2017, he snuck onto her property to attack her. Sadly, when Billy confronted Carolyn, she knew exactly who he was.
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she had tried to get in contact with him by calling his family members but she never heard from him again billy was also known to be a heavy drinker in 2010 and 2011 he was charged with dwis and in the 2011 offense he never showed up to court so he had a warrant issued for his arrest the following year in 2012 billy started dating a woman named margaret and he was incredibly abusive to her
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And I'm sure in her last moments, she pleaded with him to spare her life, but he wouldn't. Carolyn McPhee would ultimately be Billy's 17th victim. Now later that morning, when Carolyn didn't show up for church, her son, Scott and Rob were very concerned. They ended up driving to Carolyn's house, calling her phone along the way, but she didn't answer. Then when they finally got to her house,
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they grew even more worried. For one, there was blood all in the garage, including a bloody palm print on the front door. Scott and Rob carefully walked through their mother's home, calling out her name, but they were just met with silence. Eventually, they passed a bathroom and there on the counter were bloody tissues.
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In the kitchen, they found a broken jar on the ground, but then they got to Carolyn's bedroom. Immediately, they noticed that her bed was off centered and there was blood on her comforter. Then horrifically, as they turned the corner, they found their mom lying next to her bed, deceased. There was a bloody fingerprint on the inside of her glasses.
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When the police finally arrived, they were quick to tell Carolyn's family that she must have died of an aneurysm. They suspected that she had gotten into her car to go to church when she started having a nosebleed, which would explain why there was blood in the garage and that bloody palm print on the door. It also explains why there was bloody tissues in the bathroom.
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Investigators said that after getting a nosebleed, she must have gone inside to clean herself up. And that's when she had an aneurysm and passed away. They also told her family that she didn't suffer and that she would have died quickly. The medical examiner later ruled Carolyn's death as natural and cited a heart condition. But like we just mentioned,
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she had just gone to her doctor where they said she was in good health. Her sons found this strange, but in the end, they trusted the medical professionals. However, something that couldn't be explained was the fact that their mother's expensive rings were missing. According to Scott and Rob, Carolyn never removed her rings. Scott brought this up to a detective, but was quickly told, quote, well,
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old people hide things. So from there, they were forced to accept the fact that their mother died of an aneurysm. Soon enough, the crime scene was cleaned up and eventually Carolyn's family even sold the home. But her son Scott did keep his mother's bloodstained glasses. And those very glasses would later prove that Carolyn McPhee was one of the 20 plus victims of Billy Tremiermere.
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In the end, the blood on her glasses wasn't even Carolyn's blood, it was Billy's. During their struggle that morning, Carolyn was somehow able to injure him. She put up a hell of a fight, but in the end, he won. And this specific case goes to show just how poorly they were handling these deaths.
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I mean, here is a woman found murdered in her own home with thousands of dollars of valuables missing and her killer's blood is found all over her house. But because of her age, they quickly ruled it an accident.
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If investigators would have done their jobs and at the very least checked to see that the blood was Carolyn's, they would have seen that the DNA matched the same person who attacked Kay Lawson two months earlier, but they didn't. And from there, Billy was able to kill more elderly women around Dallas, Texas.
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Now despite being one of America's most prolific killers, there isn't a ton of information out there about Billy himself. What we do know is that after murdering his victims, he would immediately take the stolen goods to pawn shops around Dallas to get them appraised.
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In one incident, the two got into an argument after leaving a nightclub, and when they got home, he beat her repeatedly with a frying pan. Then, while on the floor, he began kicking her, and then he grabbed a knife. Margaret would later say that Billy started to slash and stab all the chairs in the living room, screaming at Margaret that a woman never disobeys a man.
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Sometimes he would sell the items to the pawn shops, but if they didn't offer a high enough price, he would also use the app OfferUp, where he listed the valuables under the username Zebzeb4. But most commonly, he would take his stolen items to jewelers.
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now when he would go to these jewelers he would already know what the estimated price of the stolen goods was because he had just gotten them appraised at the pawn shop and because he knew the price it made him a more reputable seller so these pawn shops and jewelers around dallas knew him well and like we mentioned he would sometimes walk away with several thousand dollars one of his favorite locations was the diamond and gold exchange located at 7995 lbj freeway in dallas
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Video surveillance would later show Billy Shamir Mir inside the diamond and gold exchange over 50 times over the years. After murdering an innocent elderly victim, he would enter the store with a huge smile on his face because he knew he was about to make a lot of money. And most of the time, he did.
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After walking out with thousands in cash, Billy would often spend it all at nightclubs, his favorite being Africa Fusion. The owner would later say that Billy Shamirmir was at the club almost every night for three years. He was known to buy people drinks, he gave really good tips, and he spent roughly $300 a night on booze.
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Most of the people who saw him spending this kind of money assumed he had some crazy high-paying job, but he didn't. Being a caregiver doesn't pay that kind of money. However, no one realized that his wealth was solely based on the fact that he was a serial killer who stole valuables from his elderly victims.
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After Carolyn McPhee's murder, Billy decided to target his girlfriend's client, another sloppy move. His girlfriend, Margaret, also worked as a home health care aide. And at the time, she was caring for a 76-year-old woman named Rosemary Curtis. On Friday, January 19th, 2018, Rosemary was discovered dead inside her home. And like his previous victims, she was also missing jewelry.
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A few weeks later on Wednesday, January 31st, Billy found his next victim shopping at Walmart. 87-year-old Mary Sue Brooks was innocently buying her groceries for the week when Billy spotted her. Like a lion watching his prey, he kept an eye on Mary Sue. watching her from afar. He saw that she was frail and vulnerable, his perfect victim.
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After Mary Sue checked out, he followed her into the parking lot. Video surveillance shows his silver Nissan Altima following close behind, as she drove away in her car. Sadly, Mary Sue had no idea that someone had followed her from Walmart all the way to her condo in Richardson, Texas. So when she got a knock at her door, she opened it.
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From there, Billy attacked her, smothering her with a pillow, and then he stole her valuables, including the wedding ring on her finger and an expensive heirloom that she had stashed in a safe. Then like clockwork, Billy took the items to the diamond and gold exchange and sold them for a cash profit. Mary Sue Brooks was his 19th murder victim.
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and he threatened to slash her throat if she ever disrespected him again. Luckily, Margaret was able to grab her cell phone and call 911. When the police arrived, Billy was arrested and charged with assault. We'll go more into their relationship a little later on, but as you can see, Billy Shamirmir was no stranger to law enforcement.
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By March 7th, 2018, Billy decided to return back to Preston Place, the senior living community where he had earlier murdered three women. And this time, he would target 80-year-old Martha Williams. Martha had spent that day shopping and came back home to relax in her apartment. She had actually just placed her shopping bags down on her bed when she heard a knock on her front door.
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It's believed that Billy saw her carrying shopping bags and assumed that she had money. And when Martha opened up the door, he attacked her, just like the other 19 victims. But Martha had put up a fight. During the fight, her nose started bleeding. And strangely enough, Billy actually pulled her shirt up over her head and then smothered her in the bedroom.
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After the murder, he went through her apartment and stole thousands of dollars of jewelry and family heirlooms, including a silver platter. Later that evening, Martha's family came to visit her, but they found her dead. But it seems as if Martha was not Billy's intended victim for that day.
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Interestingly, another resident at Preston Place named Miriam Nelson claimed that hours before Martha's death, a strange man had knocked on her door. Now Miriam was actually waiting for a grocery delivery, so she willingly opened her door, but the man outside didn't have groceries. He claimed that he was with maintenance and that the person living below her reported water leaking into their unit.
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Miriam let the man in. She would later say that he casually walked through her apartment, pretending to check the faucets. And then randomly after a few minutes, he left. Now this encounter left Miriam feeling uneasy. It was clear to her that he was not a maintenance man and she was right. In reality, it seems as if Billy came there to kill her.
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But after walking through her apartment, I guess he changed his mind. wearing a white button-down black dress pants and these green rubber gloves. Sadly, around the time Miriam was reporting Billy, he was already in the apartment of Martha Williams, smothering her and stealing her valuables.
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But this incident freaked Miriam out so badly, she even called her friends living at Preston Place, warning them about this strange man. Eerily enough, When she called her friend Pauline Sanford, she described a similar experience.
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Pauline said that about a year prior, a man matching that description had entered her apartment, and he also told her that he was there to fix a leak, so she let him in. Pauline said that as he was walking around her apartment, she mentioned that her daughter was about to pick her up to take her to lunch. And immediately the man left without even checking for a leak.
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From there, Pauline told one of the actual maintenance men what happened. And eventually they even caught him lurking around the facility. However, he was able to jump the fence and run away before they could catch him. Surprisingly, Preston Place never once alerted any of their residents about this.
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He had a pretty lengthy record, and when you work in healthcare, that's a problem.
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They also didn't add any security cameras or take any other safety precautions to prevent the man from coming back. And as we know, he would come back. On that day, March 7th, 2018, he was able to get into Miriam Nelson's apartment and he murdered and robbed Martha Williams. So Preston Place knew about both of these incidents and they still refused to notify their residents.
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When Miriam Nelson's family heard about what happened, her grandson Jason decided to stay with her that night. They were worried. Early that next morning on March 8th, Jason even went to the front desk and complained about management's failure to notify and keep their residents safe. but they assured him that they were going to take caution.
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no business especially working with the elderly is going to hire you when you have dwis and assaults on your record which is exactly why billy was going by the alias benjamin coitaba as it turns out he had stolen this identity from his ex-brother-in-law even had his license passport and bank accounts all under the name benjamin coitaba now unlike billy
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They said that they were increasing security and that soon enough they would hire security guards to ride around on golf carts. But that was an empty promise. And horrifically, just one day later on March 9th, Miriam Nelson was found dead. As it turns out, Billy came back for her.
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After smothering Miriam, he took $11,000 worth of jewelry and then left the facility without anyone noticing he was there. Later that day, Miriam's daughter Karen would find her body along with the missing jewelry and she immediately called the police.
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But again, when police officers responded to the call, they noted that there was no sign of forced entry or signs that Miriam had been a victim of assault. But her family was quick to shut that down. They even pulled up the complaint showing that an intruder had entered her apartment two days earlier. And only then did they finally start investigating this as a homicide.
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Now with the police presence at the facility, residents and their families were growing concerned. Pauline Sanford, who had just talked to Miriam about the intruder days earlier, was extremely worried, especially since that man had tried to target her the year prior. So from here, Pauline's daughter, Janine, decided to take matters into her own hands.
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Since Preston Place wasn't going to notify their residents, Janine actually printed out flyers telling residents to lock their doors. The flyers read, quote, the you have a leak thief is reported to be back on Preston Place campus. Lock your doors when you get home and ask who is there before opening the door.
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There are no African-American maintenance workers at Preston Place and no one comes unannounced to look for a leak. Call the police. This man entered my mom's apartment last year. He was checking for a leak and when she said I was on my way, he left. Donna was alerted but did not call the police." He spent the entire day on the Preston Place campus.
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Finally, he was seen and one of the maintenance men chased him and he climbed the wall, end quote. Clearly, Janine posted these around the facility because she was concerned about resident safety. But believe it or not, Preston Place's management removed them. I guess it wasn't good for business. And sadly, Preston Place had not seen the last of Billy Tremiermere.
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Inside one of the units of building number 8 was 91-year-old Mary Bartle, and March 19, 2018 had been just like any other day. That morning, Mary woke up at around 4.30 a.m. to take her medicine and vitamins, and then she left for her morning walk. After breaking her hip earlier that year, she made it a point to stay active, so she walked nearly every day.
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That morning, after her walk, she came back home, ate breakfast, and then sipped on a cup of decaffeinated coffee. At around 6.30 a.m., Mary left Preston Place to attend Mass at her church just a few blocks down the road. But when she came back, she couldn't help but notice a stranger lurking in her building. That stranger was Billy Shamirmir.
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Just 10 days after murdering Miriam Nelson, he made his way back to Preston Place. And surprise, surprise, there were no security guards riding around on golf carts. He was able to walk right in. And after entering the property, he quickly made his way over to building number 8.
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now mary bartell wasn't the only one who noticed him dwight corley and his wife phyllis lived next door to mary and when they saw him lurking around dwight actually confronted him at the time billy was standing outside of the home of 82 year old ann conklin so dwight approached him and asked if he needed help finding someone to which billy told him no
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Benjamin Coitaba had a clean record. And luckily for Billy, the various healthcare agencies that hired him never asked for fingerprints to verify his identity. So starting in 2012, Billy took on this alias, never once getting caught. And in early 2016, when he applied to work at Edgemere under this alias, they hired him. thinking he was an upstanding citizen.
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Billy said that he was a healthcare worker and he was waiting on his next client. Now, Dwight would later say that this was pretty common around there, and he assumed that Ann Conklin hired him for help. But soon enough, at around 8.30 a.m., Mary Bartell from across the hall heard a knock on her front door.
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At the time, Mary had just gotten off the phone with her sister-in-law and had sat down at her dining room table to read the newspaper when she heard the knock. Now, Mary actually had an exercise class scheduled for later that morning, so she thought it was one of her exercise friends who was there to pick her up.
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She quickly opened the door without looking through the peephole, and there, standing in front of her, was the same man she saw lurking in the hallway. except now he was wearing green rubber gloves. Mary would later say, quote, "'I knew instantly when I saw those two green rubber gloves. Number one, I should not have opened the door. And number two, my life was in grave danger.'"
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end quote and she was right because after opening the door the man pushed her inside and said quote don't fight me once in her apartment billy pushed mary onto her bed and shoved a pillow over her face being 91 years old mary was too weak to fight back and within seconds she blacked out billy must have felt her body go limp because soon enough
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He got up and began rummaging through her apartment, taking a gold locket, a gold crucifix, her wedding band, and a diamond engagement ring. Then from there, he fled her apartment. But on his way out, he accidentally left her door open a few inches. Several minutes later,
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Mary's friend Jackie walked over to pick her up for their morning aerobics class, and that's when she saw that Mary's door was open. Concerned, Jackie decided to walk inside, and in the bedroom, she found Mary unresponsive on the bed. Immediately, Jackie called 911, but as luck would have it, 91-year-old Mary Bartell was still alive.
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Soon enough, Mary was taken to the hospital and her loved ones rushed over to be with her. No one knew exactly what had happened, but they were so thankful that she was okay. After a while, while sitting in a hospital bed, Mary slowly started regaining consciousness. Her sons were by her side holding her hand. But one of the first things she told them was to call the police.
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Eventually, an officer arrived and Mary was able to recount the horrific attack she had endured. She told the officer that a man wearing green rubber gloves had tried to suffocate her. She also mentioned that her wedding band and engagement ring were missing.
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Mary told the officer, I thought I was going to die. I'm not afraid to die, but I didn't want to die that way. Now, believe it or not, the officer actually thought that Mary's story was made up. He even told her sons. She probably hit her head and became confused.
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her sons knew that it wasn't like their mother to make up stories especially when they realized her wedding rings were missing mary never took off her rings not to sleep not to bathe not for anything so it's here where they asked to speak with the detective soon enough plano detective paul martinez arrived at the hospital and spoke with mary and luckily he believed her story in fact mary's story sounded awfully familiar to the one he had heard about from 2017.
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It was the attack of 93-year-old Kay Lawson. Like Mary, she too survived after an intruder, posing as maintenance, entered her apartment, smothered her, and then robbed her.
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From there, investigators make their way over to Mary's apartment. She had just survived an attempted murder, so it was a crime scene. And investigators went to work gathering any and all evidence that they could. But as they did, they suddenly heard frantic screams coming from the hallway. Horrifically, Mary Bartell had not been the only victim that day.
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However, they couldn't have been more wrong. Security guard Jose Allman realized this mistake when he saw that Billy was pretending to be a maintenance man. And like we mentioned, they fired him on the spot. But unbeknownst to everyone, it's believed that Billy had already murdered his first victim at Edgemere just 10 days before he was fired.
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Remember earlier how I said he had been standing in front of 82-year-old Ann Conklin's apartment? Well, before he targeted Mary that morning, he had murdered and robbed her neighbor as well. Ann Conklin's family said that she mostly kept to herself, but she did attend the funerals of Miriam Nelson and Martha Williams, the other two women who had been murdered at Preston Place.
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Now, Ann had no idea that the two had been murdered, but her daughter would later say that her mom was suspicious about their sudden deaths.
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In her early life, Ann Conklin had dropped out of medical school in her 20s after meeting her first husband, Frederick Stucker. Although the marriage didn't last, the two would remain good friends, and she eventually remarried a man named Warren Conklin. And from there, Ann and Warren lived an adventurous life. traveling all around the world, volunteering and counseling addicts.
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Anne dedicated her life to her four children, and after Warren passed in 2006, she remained committed to helping others. But as she started to get older, Anne decided that she no longer wanted the responsibility of home ownership. So she and her daughter Jennifer decided on Preston Place. They both believed it was the perfect place to settle down in her later years.
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It was luxurious, but more importantly, they thought it was safe.
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Sadly, that morning, Ann and her daughter Jennifer had planned to go to lunch. Along the way, Jennifer called her mom to let her know she would be there soon, but Ann didn't answer the phone. For the rest of that drive, Jennifer had this horrible feeling that something wasn't right. Then she felt even worse. when she pulled into the parking lot to see a huge police presence at her mom's building.
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Jennifer frantically parked her car and ran to her mother's floor. And I'm sure for a brief second, she was relieved. As it turns out, the police weren't at her mom's apartment. They were at Mary Bartell's across the hall. So Jennifer opened her mom's door. Inside, it was dark. All the shades were drawn and the television was playing loudly in the corner.
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On the kitchen counter was her mom's uneaten yogurt and one of her pills. Ann also had a blind dog named Helen and soon enough that horrible feeling came rushing back. And then Jennifer saw her. Ann was lying on the living room floor, not moving. Jennifer let out an agonizing scream. She quickly ran out of the apartment and ran right into a police officer who was in the hallway.
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She begged the officer to go resuscitate her mother. And he tried, but there was nothing he could do. Ann Conklin was dead. Building number eight of Preston Place quickly erupted in chaos. Jennifer, who was still trying to process the fact that her mother was dead, was then approached by an officer who asked her a strange question. Is your mom missing any jewelry? And sure enough,
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After a quick search, Jennifer saw that she was. So it's here when the Plano Police Department knew that they had a big problem on their hands. The fact that Jennifer Conklin was found dead right across the hall from Mary Bartell was no coincidence. And after considering the similarities in Kay Lawson's attack in 2017, they finally realized that they were dealing with a serial offender.
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Immediately, the officers began knocking on the doors of Preston Place, asking if anyone had seen anything suspicious. And luckily, a man named Richard Plink had some information. He told the officers that he saw a male matching the suspect's description sitting in a car at the Preston Place's parking lot for hours and he was just watching residents as they came in and out.
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And that victim was 87-year-old Dr. Catherine Sinclair. For years, Catherine ran a successful medical practice until the death of her husband, Mitchell, in 2002. From there, she decided to retire and settle down in her large home in Pennsylvania. But in 2014, she started rethinking things.
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Richard was so concerned that he notified Preston Place's management and he wrote down the man's license plate number. From there, the officers ran the plate number, and finally, they had a name, Billy Tremiermere.
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So while investigators worked to find him, Mary Bartell was preparing to be discharged from the hospital, and she insisted on going back home to Preston Place Senior Living. Now, Mary was actually the building captain for Building 8, and that day they had a meeting scheduled, a meeting that she did not want to miss. She wanted everyone at Preston Place to know that she was alive and well.
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She also wanted to address the horrific reality. So, after getting discharged, she made her way back to the facility, where she almost lost her life. And in a room full of people, she stated, I'd like to address the elephant in the room. Someone is attacking, and perhaps killing, our residents. Mary then went on to describe the horrific ordeal she had endured.
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As she told her story, the other residents couldn't help but think about the other sudden deaths at their facility.
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that what happened to ann conklin miriam nelson and martha williams and what about the other three women who died there in 2017 when mary finished recounting her experience everyone in the room applauded her for her bravery but they were also shocked for years there had been strange happenings around their facility robberies suspicious persons unexpected deaths and now it was all beginning to make sense
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Meanwhile, Dallas PD was still on the hunt for Billy Tremiermere. They had his name and address, but he hadn't been home since they learned of his identity. However, during that time, they were able to find his OfferUp account, where he had sold a number of stolen goods. Interestingly, on his account, they saw that he had just sold Mary Bartell's rings for $1,200.
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Detective Paul Martinez reached out to the buyer to see if they knew where Billy would be, but apparently he had met them at a local Starbucks. So from here, Detective Martinez goes to the Starbucks to look at the security footage, but as he pulls up, he can't help but notice the shop next door. It's a diamond and gold exchange. After speaking to the owners,
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he learns that Billy had just been in there earlier that day. Now, by this point, investigators are getting anxious. Finding Billy was imperative. After all, he was a serial killer who preyed on the elderly. And for all they knew... he could be out there murdering his next victim as they spoke. But without knowing his location, all they could do was wait.
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A team of officers had been waiting at his apartment complex for hours. It was the Rancho Palisades Luxury Apartment Complex on 4500 Pear Ridge. And then finally, at around 5.50 PM on Monday, March 20th, 2018, Plano police officers were sitting in the parking lot when they suddenly saw a man matching Billy's description pull up to the apartment's dumpsters.
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Seconds later, they saw Billy step out of his car and throw some items away. Then he parked in his reserved parking space. But as soon as he stepped out of the car, a swarm of officers approached him and placed Billy under arrest. In his hands, officers found some jewelry and a wad of cash.
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Katherine's loved ones all lived in Texas, and now that she was getting older, she wanted to spend her final years closer to family. So after doing a lot of research, she finally found the perfect senior living facility in Dallas, Edgemere. That summer, she made the move from Pennsylvania to Texas, and she was really enjoying herself here.
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After placing Billy in the back of the police car, they also went to look in the dumpster to see what he threw away. And inside, they found a bright red jewelry box. Now at first, they believed that it was possibly from Mary Bartell or even Ann Conklin. But inside the jewelry box, they found an immigration document with the name Luthi Harris.
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On the document was also an address located only a few miles down the road at 6609 Warm Breeze Lane. Immediately, the officers had a sinking feeling about what they would find at that address. And sure enough, when they conducted a welfare check, they found the body of 81-year-old Luthi Harris. She was dead on the floor in her bedroom.
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Near her body, officers found a lipstick-stained pillow, Billie's signature murder weapon. Like all the others before, Billie had broken into her home, smothered her, and then stole her valuables.
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Lou T. Harris was born in Saigon, Vietnam. Towards the end of the Vietnam War, Lou met a man named William Harris, and in 1975, he brought her back to the United States. Unfortunately, Lou had to leave behind her children, but her ultimate goal had been to help out her family, and they were grateful for her sacrifice. Lou and William were happily married until William's death in 2008.
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But now, 10 years later, Lou is also dead. Now, after finding her body, investigators wanted to know how Billy found Lou Harris. She didn't live in a senior facility like many of his other victims. So, they started asking around her neighborhood.
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Interestingly, some neighbors told police that Lou had just been at the post office about an hour and a half before Billy's arrest, so she had literally just been murdered. Officers were able to track her movements that day, and what they found was horrifying. As it turned out, Lou had also shopped at Walmart that afternoon.
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And when investigators pulled up their CCTV footage, they saw Billy Shamirmir stalking her. He was watching her from afar. In the video, they saw Lou leave Walmart and put the groceries in her car. And seconds after she pulled out of the parking lot, Billy's vehicle was seen following behind.
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Sadly, this was one of the ways that Billy found his victims. As detectives continued their investigation, they actually saw footage of Billy on numerous occasions inside this very Walmart, helping older women carry items, or he would even grab their baskets for them. To these women, they thought it was simply a kind stranger doing a good deed, but in reality,
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he was stalking these women, sizing them up to see if they'd be good enough to kill and rob. Now, as all of this information was coming to light, the people of Dallas were horrified. Over the last two years, Billy Tremere was able to victimize dozens of elderly people around their community. But his reign of terror had finally come to an end.
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After his arrest, he was charged with capital murder and held on a $1 million bond.
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Her nephew, Dan Probst, said that Edgemere was as nice as a five-star hotel. I mean, dinner was served on cloth tablecloths with flowers on the table and candles, and they would fix anything special you ordered. Catherine also really prioritized her health. I mean, after all, she was a doctor.
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After being arrested and housed at the Dallas County Jail, Billy agreed to speak with Dallas and Plano Police. He told them that he had been a caregiver and was currently looking for work, but he continued to deny ever being at Lou Harris' house. Instead, he stated that he purchased the jewelry box from someone else, looked through the box, took out what he wanted, and then threw it away.
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But that couldn't have been true, because during Billy's arrest, he was also found with Lou's car keys and immigration papers. Those clearly wouldn't have been inside the box. When asked how he had procured those items, Billy couldn't give a definitive answer, and he continued to lie about any and all involvement in Lou's murder.
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now at around 3 a.m on the morning of tuesday march 21st 2018 investigators obtained a search warrant for billy's apartment billy's girlfriend margaret was home when the police arrived and she was shocked to learn that he was being investigated for murder
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During the search, police obtained multiple pieces of jewelry, including a watch that belonged to Ann Conklin. They also discovered multiple cell phones, rubber gloves with victim's DNA on it, and a passport that belonged to a man named Benjamin Coitaba, his alias.
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Now, after holding a press conference, Plano and Dallas police departments urged the public to come forward if anyone had a loved one found dead with missing jewelry. They even provided a hotline to call. They had no idea how many murders Billy had been responsible for.
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Her family even said that at 87 years old, she wasn't even taking any medication and was in perfect health, although she did sometimes use a walker to help her get around. In early April 2016, Catherine had dinner with her niece and nephew, and they said that she was upbeat, healthy, and happy.
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especially when they learned that he tended to pose as a maintenance man and healthcare worker at various senior living facilities around Dallas. Now, one of the first people to call this hotline was Dr. Catherine Sinclair's nephew, Dan Probst. Catherine was Billy's first suspected victim at Edgemere in 2016. In fact, in April of 2018, shortly after Billy's arrest,
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Dan hired a law firm who looked into Katherine's death. After looking at her autopsy, they got a second professional opinion, which proved that Katherine's injuries mirrored a smothering. She even had bruises on her abdomen that most likely came from someone's knee as they applied pressure while suffocating her to death.
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Finally, in 2020, Catherine's cause of death was changed from natural to undetermined. And there were hundreds of people around Dallas doing this exact same thing, questioning whether or not their loved one had been murdered by Billy Tremiermere. Now, after posting the hotline, investigators now had the grueling task of reviewing around 700 reports
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of unsolved robberies involving a senior citizen's death. But they were able to narrow down that list by comparing the list to Billie's cell phone data, jewelry sale records, and CCTV footage.
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Shockingly, Billy's cell phone data put him at Edgemere, Tradition, Parkview, and Preston Place during most of their unexpected deaths throughout the years. Tradition resident Leah Corkin was one of them. Her daughter MJ would later say that in August of 2016,
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records show that billy came onto the property at 11 am and by 12 40 pm her mother was dead records then showed that billy had sold her mom's stolen jewelry on craigslist two hours later for two thousand five hundred dollars and remember solomon springs murder the only male victim of billy's who was found completely brutalized at tradition while cell phone records showed that billy had gone to solomon's apartment three days before the murder
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and the day of the murder. But even with this information, the medical examiner refused to change Solomon's cause of death from natural to homicide. So sadly, Solomon's death couldn't be talked about at Billy's trial. This was also the case for Dr. Catherine Sinclair, Billy's first suspected victim.
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you noticed throughout this episode we talked about 24 murder victims but in the end billy would only be indicted for 22 and that's because solomon spring and dr catherine sinclair are not included in that indictment the prosecution didn't believe that they had enough evidence to include them and to this day their cause of deaths have never been changed to homicides
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However, just one week later, on April 8th, one of Edgemere's housekeepers went inside of her apartment, apartment 10, and it was there where they discovered her dead.
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However, it's widely believed that they too were victims of Billy Shamirmere, and there's probably many other families who believe the same. But finally, years after Billy's arrest, it was time for him to face justice. His first trial for the murder of his final victim, Lou T. Harris, was on November 16th, 2021. Shockingly, Billy pleaded not guilty to her murder.
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Now, because of her age, the medical examiner was quick to list her cause of death as natural, but her family believed otherwise. When her nephew Dan went into her apartment after her death, he noticed some blood on the bed. Even further, Catherine had this oversized safe where she kept her gold, diamonds, and jewelry. but the safe was missing.
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One of the star witnesses in Lou's trial was 91 year old Mary Bartell. Although Mary had sadly passed away one year prior in 2020, a recorded interview shortly after her attack in 2018 was played during the first day of the trial.
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There were many victims' family members tuning into the trial that day. And Mary Bartell's testimony was especially hard to hear because that's exactly what happened to their loved ones, except many didn't make it out alive.
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On the second and third day of trial, November 17th and 18th, the jurors were shown CCTV footage from inside the Walmart where Billy can be seen stalking and following Luthie Harris. which was incredibly eerie to see, as was the interrogation footage after Billy's arrest. In it, not only did he deny any responsibility, but he was also seen smiling and laughing.
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Following this, her family tried to report it to the police and a robbery detective was assigned to the case, but the detective did not return their calls for over a month. They also ordered an autopsy to be performed, but the medical examiner ruled that there was no foul play.
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Now, something very surprising that came out of the trial was when the owner of the diamond and gold exchange shop was brought to the stand. He testified that between 2015 and 2018, He had purchased over $91,000 of jewelry from Billy, which is definitely a lot of money. But then you consider the fact that he had to murder over 20 people for that money, $91,000 in exchange for 24 lives.
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On November 19th, 2021, the jury finally left for deliberation. But unfortunately, after six hours, they couldn't reach a verdict. As it turns out, one juror refused to convict him. Yes, Billie had a bunch of Luthie's belongings, but there was no DNA evidence of Billie in her home. Now, we know that Billy usually wore gloves during his crimes, so he was careful not to leave any DNA behind.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But for this juror, the circumstantial evidence just wasn't enough for a conviction. And because of that, it would end in a mistrial, deadlocked 11 to 1. As you can imagine, the victim's family members were devastated to hear this news.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
After the mistrial, Billy was sent back to the Dallas County Jail awaiting a second trial. However, Billy believed that the mistrial meant that people believed he wasn't guilty. He even did an interview with the podcast Unforbidden Truth, where he laughed, saying he wasn't going to prison, but he was wrong.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
On April 22nd, 2022, Billy Shamirmere was back on trial for the second time for the murder of Lou Harris. And this time, the prosecution decided to focus more on the CCTV footage from inside that Walmart. In one of the videos, Billy was seen on his cell phone as he left the store, following Lou.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
However, as you'll come to learn, these circumstances will eerily mirror the other elderly victims who will be found dead over the next two years. Now, Dr. Sinclair's death is still listed as natural causes, but it's widely believed that she was Billy's first murder victim. And afterwards, he was hungry for more.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But investigators used cell phone data to prove that Billy wasn't even on a phone call during this time. He was clearly pretending to be, so that he wouldn't garner suspicion. Now, this seemed to have proved to the jury that he was strictly out there to stalk and prey on a vulnerable 81-year-old woman. And finally, on April 28th, 2022...
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
After less than one hour of deliberations, the jury returned to the court with their verdict guilty. Judge Jones sentenced Billy to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Once Billy was escorted out, the victim's family members could finally breathe a sigh of relief. And when the verdict was read, the courtroom erupted in cheers.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Later that year in October of 2022, Billie would go on trial again for the murder of 87-year-old Mary Sue Brooks. She was actually the other victim that Billie stalked in Walmart back in January of 2018. And like with Luthie Harris, CCTV footage showed him following her around the store. Afterwards, Billy followed her home, killed her, and then stole her valuables.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
And that's because this serial killer was targeting the elderly. For two years, senior citizens around Dallas were found dead in their apartments with their expensive jewelry missing. Many of them were found in strange positions. Some had lipstick covered pillows lying next to their body. Their family members would try to tell the police about their suspicions, but it fell on deaf ears.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
In addition to the surveillance footage, the prosecution also presented Billy's cell phone data that proved he was at her home on the afternoon of her murder. Luckily in this trial, the jury immediately found him guilty. And from there, he was given a second life sentence without the possibility of parole.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now, keep in mind, after these two convictions, Billy still had indictments for the other 20 people he murdered. But given that he was already serving two life sentences, the other 20 indictments would be dismissed, which was very difficult for the victim's family members who never got their day in court. However, the judge did allow them to read their victim impact statements.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Just 10 days after allegedly murdering Dr. Sinclair, Billy would be fired for posing as a maintenance man at Edgemere. But surprisingly, that wouldn't stop him from coming back. A few weeks later, on May 14th, 2016, Billy woke up early, put on his old Edgemere uniform, and he snuck onto the property. Now, because he had worked there, he knew all the ins and outs.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
For instance, he knew that at 7 a.m., there was an employee shift change. where all the night employees would leave and the morning employees would arrive. And during that switch, no one really paid attention. So in the early morning hours, Billy walked onto the property without anyone noticing. And from there, he would make his way over to building number eight. Maintenance.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Inside was 91-year-old Phyllis Payne. Phyllis had no reason to believe that she was in harm's way. After all, this facility is one of the nicest in the area. It's secure, or so she thought. Upon opening the door, Billy Chemermere forced his way inside. Based on what we know about his crimes, he likely overpowered her, grabbed a pillow, and then smothered her until she died.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Sadly, over 20 families didn't get their day in court because of all the dismissed indictments. But many of them, 13 to be exact, would file lawsuits against the senior living facilities that were supposed to have kept their loved ones safe.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Like we mentioned throughout this episode, these facilities did not do their jobs, even after dozens of people came forward with concerns about their security. Now, Edgemere settled two cases outside of court. And according to them, after the deaths of Dr. Catherine Sinclair, Phyllis Payne, and Phoebe Perry, new management had taken over, and they added 400 security cameras to the facility.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Parkview in Frisco, Texas also settled with the families of Marilyn Bixler and Kay Lawson. Preston Place settled four out of seven murders. And for tradition, two of the cases were settled, but six still remain open.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
According to the law firms representing the 13 families, Tradition seemed to have been the most negligent of all, saying they only really cared about profit. It's believed that Billy murdered at least nine people at Tradition. And after many of these unexpected deaths and robberies, residents and their family members complained. but they never made any changes to improve security.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
But the families also believed that they withheld information about these deaths and robberies because it wouldn't look good for business. Now to this day, tradition denies these claims. And although they did send their regards, they doubled down on everything, saying that they were just listening to the police and the medical examiner's findings. But at the end of the day,
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Following the murder, Billy quickly ran through her home, looking for any valuables he could get his hands on. But this wouldn't be an easy find. As it was later revealed, Phyllis kept her valuables in an empty coffee can that she kept inside of her refrigerator. And eventually, Billy would find it.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
They knew about the strange happenings going on at their facility. They knew about a suspicious person pretending to be a maintenance man. They knew that jewelry was being taken from their deceased residents. And still, they did nothing. Glenna Day's daughter Cheryl would later say, quote, "'You would think after the third death, "'there would be some flags. "'The fourth death?
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
"'How about the fifth death? "'The sixth one?' End quote." Joyce Amber Malwitz's son, Paul, would later say of tradition, quote, "'Your patients are dying. "'Your residents are dying. and you're sticking your head in the sand. Basically, he showed up every other weekend, murdered someone, and shopped for jewelry. Sociopaths exist in this world.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
We count on people who run these facilities to protect them, and they failed.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Now before this story ends, we do have one more murder we have to mention, one that took place on September 19th, 2023, and that was the murder of serial killer Billy Shamirmir. That day, Billy's cellmate, Wyatt Busby, said that Billy had made an inappropriate sexual comment about his daughter, and in a rage, Wyatt beat Billy to death in his cell.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
For the family members who never got justice, there were mixed feelings. But most were happy that someone as evil as Billy no longer had the privilege of living. A privilege that was selfishly ripped from their loved ones.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
This was Jailhouse Justice. I chose to cover this story because Billy Tremere is one of the most prolific serial killers in America, but not that many people know about him or his victims. Now, these days when a serial killer is arrested, it is everywhere. It's all anyone can talk about, but not with this story, which made me wonder why.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
As I pondered that question, I thought back to the victim's deaths, how law enforcement didn't seem to bat an eye after at least 24 people suspiciously died and were robbed of their valuables. Because of their old age, people didn't seem to pay attention. And then, even after their deaths were proven to be the work of a serial killer, there's still no widespread media coverage.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Some of the victim's family members have spoken on this. saying that if Billy would have targeted young adults, everyone would know this story. And I have to agree. Sadly, senior citizens are often underrepresented in the media, which is heartbreaking. These victims lived their entire lives. They made it through every battle, every hardship, and they finally made it to their final chapters.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
After grabbing what he needed, he carefully slipped out of her apartment and left the facility without anyone noticing.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Many of them looked back on their lives and were so proud of their accomplishments. their family, and their legacy. And the only hope they had for their future was to live out their final days in peace. But Billy Tremere Mirror stole that from them. This story serves as a reminder that evil can lurk among us. And the worst of the worst will target our most precious and vulnerable populations.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
By shedding light on the atrocities of Billy Tremiermare, we can not only honor the victims, but hopefully change the way cases involving senior citizens are handled. AARP Texas State Director, Tina Tran stated, quote, these crimes are horrifying and the repeated failure of systems that should have been in place to protect the victims
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Add to the tragedy, a killer exploited a deep bias against the elderly, particularly women in our society, which allowed a murderous spree to continue unquestioned and undetected. The callousness, particularly of the police and those who ran the facilities, should shake us to our core."
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Phyllis's daughter, Lauren Adair Smith, said that her mother was a ball of energy. She was 91, but you would have thought she was 70. And Phyllis really enjoyed her time at Edgemere. Workers said that she was often seen socializing and playing bridge in Edge Party Room. In her younger years, she had worked as an interior decorator, and she loved being creative.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
today we'll be making a donation to secure our senior safety or soss founded by miriam nelson's daughter karen harris the goal is to raise awareness about the importance of safety at senior living facilities and advocating for more security measures in these communities if you want to help the link to their organization's page will be in the description
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
hey everybody thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of murder in america i know this was a long one but this is an infuriating case for years on youtube i have been inside of lots of old abandoned nursing homes and in researching the history of these places for those videos i've come to realize that nursing homes are some of the darkest places in america i mean it's staggering how much abuse
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
takes place in nursing homes how many negligent deaths there are and then this story is just infuriating that they refuse to take action any of the points that they could have throughout this entire story if you want more murder in america please consider joining us on patreon we post bonus episodes on there all of the time
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So if you like the show and you want more episodes that you've never heard before that are never going to be published on our main feed, consider joining us on Patreon. If you also want to listen to the show without any advertisements and a day early, you can sign up to get that benefit on Patreon as well. Please, if you have some time, leave us a five-star review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
It's super important to us to get those reviews up. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every case that we cover on the show. Thank you all so much for joining this week. We will be back next week with just the beginning of an incredible, crazy few episodes. And yeah, it's Colin here.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Have a great rest of your week and I'll catch y'all on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
she often traveled with her daughter on family trips and tragically that week she had actually been invited on a trip to gulf shores alabama but she declined because she said she was going to be busy with her bridge club so her daughter went to alabama without her On the drive down, Lauren said that she called her mother, who was in good spirits.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Phyllis told her that her bridge club gathering had been a success. From there, they said I love you and goodbye, and they hung up the phone. However, a few hours later, Lauren got a call that her mother was dead. A worker at Edgemere had found her lying in bed, still dressed in a robe. It appeared as if she peacefully died in her sleep, and her death was listed as natural causes.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Upon hearing the news, Lauren immediately came back to Dallas, and eventually she had to complete the difficult task of cleaning out her mother's apartment. But as she did, Lauren noticed that the empty coffee can inside the refrigerator, where Phyllis stashed her valuable jewelry, was missing.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Lauren reported the theft to the police and Edgemere's administrators, but an investigation was never opened.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
So within about a month, two women had died at Edgemere. Both of their families reported to the police that valuables had been stolen from them, but sadly the police didn't look into it. And after getting away with it twice, Billy Chemermere would return to Edgemere once more in search of another victim.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
On June 5th, 2016, he snuck back onto the property and made his way over to building number four. Inside one of the units was 94-year-old Phoebe Perry. who lived with her small dog named Honey. Posing as a maintenance man, Billy knocked on her door and Phoebe opened it, only to be bombarded by a stranger who forced his way into her apartment.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
Over the next few minutes, Billy grabbed a pillow and forced Phoebe onto one of the living room chairs. He then put a pillow over her face and began to smother her. But Phoebe put up a fight. So much so, blood started staining the pillow over her face. But the 94-year-old stood no chance against Billy. Eventually, just like the others, she too would pass away.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
And because of the victim's age and lazy police work, their deaths were being ruled as accidents or natural causes. But then in 2018, a survivor came forward. And finally, the police started looking into things. Horrifically, their investigation would reveal that a serial killer had been operating right under their noses, targeting our most vulnerable population.
Murder In America
EP. 186: TEXAS - The SENIOR LIVING SERIAL KILLER: 22 Senior Citizens MURDERED In 2 Years
As Phoebe slumped over her living room chair, Billy began looking through her home. grabbing anything of value that he could find. Then once he was satisfied, he left Edgemere and headed to the pawn shop to collect his cash prize. Later that day, workers would find Phoebe's body in that living room chair.
Murder In America
EP. 203: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 1)
All right, our next speaker is James Helm.
Murder In America
EP. 203: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 1)
Well, he did indeed seem very nervous. He was very quiet. Looked like your average grad student, jeans or khakis and just sort of nondescript T-shirt or button-down.
Murder In America
EP. 203: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 1)
A mental health hold and somebody who's has homicidal thoughts. To qualify for a mental health hold, they need to have a couple of things. And one is evidence that it's not just a thought, but they have a plan. There's moving towards action on those thoughts. And then the second thing is there has to be a specific target. And he all along had denied both of those.
Murder In America
EP. 203: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 1)
No. What did you do? So I... still had significant concerns about his homicidal thoughts and potential dangerousness. So I took some additional steps. Tell us about them. So the first thing I did, other than discussing this with Dr. Feinstein at the end of the session, was I called what's known as our beta team.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
She was very involved in the local cosmetology program and her clients absolutely loved her. Shortly before the massacre, Sylvia and her partner got engaged and she was so excited to finally get married. But unfortunately, her young life was cut short in the blink of an eye.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
soon after killing sylvia king george randomly fired throughout the restaurant making his way around the building looking for victims and there was anger in his voice as he shouted throughout the building this is what bell county did to me and my family this is payback was it worth it was it worth it
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
George approached another group hiding under a table. It was 33-year-old Deborah Gray and 36-year-old Suzanne Rashid. Both were senior level workers at TU Electric, and they were there on their lunch break. Suzanne had deep roots in her community and had lived in Killeen since she was 11 years old. She was described as a very personable woman, quote, a real hometown girl.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
She knew everybody, and everybody knew her." Suzanne's husband's name was Paul. She also had a young daughter named Jamie, and she had worked at her husband's business for the last 17 years. It's actually where she met her best friend, Deborah Gray, who was with her in Luby's that morning. Deborah and Suzanne had worked together for the past 10 years. Deborah had a son named Jonathan,
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
and a husband named John. Sadly, Deborah's husband had just recently gotten into an accident that left him wheelchair bound. And the two were navigating this new life together shortly before the tragedy that took Deborah's life. Both Suzanne and Deborah never expected that going on a lunch break would ultimately end their lives.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But after George Henard shot them both point blank under a table, the two best friends died alongside each other.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And George's reign of terror was far from over. He continued making his way around the restaurant, shooting at anything and anyone in sight. Eerily, some witnesses reported that as he was killing people, there was a massive grin on his face, as if he was really legitimately enjoying taking people's lives. During one bout of gunfire, he struck the Ernst couple.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Both Steve and Judy Ernst went to Luby's that day to enjoy lunch together, as they always did. and sitting together with them was Judy's mother, 70-year-old Venice Ellen Henahan. While hiding under their table, Steve was shot in the stomach and Judy was shot in the arm. Luckily, both would make it out alive, but the bullet that hit Judy actually went through her arm and struck her mother, Venice.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Sadly, Venice would succumb to her injuries. The 70-year-old woman actually lived in Metz, Missouri, but was in town to attend her granddaughter's wedding. It was supposed to be a very happy week for their family, but it turned out to be a week of tragedy. Venice left behind a big family.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
She was survived by her husband, Bernard, her five sons and her daughter, Judy, who sadly sat beside her mother as she took her last breath.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
By this point, the scene inside of Luby's looked like a war zone. There was glass debris and blood everywhere, and dead bodies covered the floor. There were other people who had been shot, but because they were still in harm's way, many had to hold in their screams to avoid getting shot again. And by now, the people still inside of the restaurant were essentially trapped.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
The only exit was near the front where George was wielding his guns. When the shooting first started, most of the employees had been shielded by the walls and buffet counters, so they all rushed out the back door exit. Here is an employee describing the situation.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now, even though most of the employees were able to escape out the back door, there were still employees in the dining room when the shooting started. So many of them were trapped with the customers. However, when George Henner turned his back to them to start shooting at a group of people, these employees took a chance and snuck over to the kitchen.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But when they went to leave out the back door exit, they realized it was locked. The door automatically locked when it was closed, and the only person with a key had already escaped. So from here, they did what you're supposed to do in a mass shooting. If you can't run away, you hide.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
One employee named Maria Serna hid inside of the industrial refrigerator behind a crate of milk cartons, and she would wait there for three whole hours. even after the shooting had stopped. Another employee, 19-year-old Mark Matthews, climbed into a 15-foot-long dishwasher when the shots rang out. He was so terrified, he actually ended up spending the night in there.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
He didn't come out until the police found him the following morning. But their hiding spots would ultimately save their lives.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, Share us on your Instagram story. Shout us out on X. Post one of our shows on your Facebook. And let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But let's get back to the story. Back out in the dining room, the customers had nowhere to hide but under their tables. So, with no other options, some people even started building barricades around themselves and their loved ones using anything they could get their hands on. Tables, chairs, and benches. Anything to shield them from the gunfire.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But by now, George was making his second loop around the restaurant. And it's here when he approached the Welsh couple. 75-year-old retired military man James Welsh had been dining at Luby's with his wife Lula. They were both born in 1915.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
james was born in missouri and lula was born in gatesville texas and eventually they found each other fell in love and got married james served in world war ii in the seno japanese war before he ultimately retired from the armed forces he and lula never had any children but they both found comfort in their religion the couple were members of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
James was actually a high priest, and the two were known to frequent this Luby's in town. However, today, as they ate their lunch, the gunman approached the couple and fired a shot right into James' chest. He then turned to Lula and did the same. Both James and Lula were killed instantly.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
George turned to another group of people hiding under a nearby table. Immediately, he shot 48-year-old veterinarian, Dr. Michael Griffith. He was at Loopy's that day with his best friend named Kirby Lack. Earlier that morning, Dr. Griffith had just finished surgery on an animal at his clinic when Kirby decided to pop in. He then asked his friend, how about buying me some lunch?
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And from there, the two would make their way over to Luby's. Kirby would later say that shortly before the nightmare began, the two were eating strawberry shortcake together. And Dr. Griffith had even made a joke about how if he died, no one would come to his funeral. Kirby laughed and assured him that he loved him and that he would be there when that day came.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
However, neither of them knew that that day was closer than anyone thought. Sadly, that would actually be the last conversation the two would have before Dr. Griffith was shot and killed. Born in Indiana in 1943, Michael had always been a hard worker. He grew up doing Boy Scouts and in 1959, he became an Eagle Scout.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Eventually, he would earn his veterinary medicine degree from Texas A&M, one of the best schools to go to if you want to be a vet. But before he was a vet, he worked for 10 years at the Beaumont Independent School District. Dr. Griffith was a sweet man who was loved by everyone. His coworker said, quote, he enjoyed his work and had fun doing what he was doing.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
He left behind his wife, Carrie, his two sons, Daniel and Michael, and his daughter, Jennifer. After getting shot point blank inside of Luby's, his best friend Kirby Lack watched him die and there was nothing he could do to stop it. But as he hid under the table, Kirby heard that distinctive clicking noise. A man hiding under the table next to him, Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Doty then whispered,
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
"'My God, he's reloading.'" Sadly, Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Doty's coworker, 29-year-old John Romero, had also been shot. He was lying on the ground with a gunshot wound to his chest. Both Kirby Lack and Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Doty rushed to John Romero's side to help him.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Kirby would later say, quote, "'I was suppressing his chest, trying to stop the bleeding, and he was so calm, he was lying with his arms straight to his sides.'" He crossed his feet, and he was just laying, batting his eyes. He was peaceful." 29-year-old John Romero was a new recruit at the Fort Hood Military Base.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Doty had been training John, and on their break, they decided to stop at Luby's for lunch. John was originally from San Antonio, In 1984, he got his engineering technology degree from Texas A&M. And from there, he went on to serve in the US Air Force. Sadly, at the young age of 29, John was shot and killed inside of Luby's that day.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But following the murders of John Romero and Dr. Michael Griffith, Kirby Lack and Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Doty found themselves hiding under a table together, two strangers who had just lost their friends. Now at that moment, the gunman was reloading his firearms. So together, Kirby and Steven Doty began to crawl away from him.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
They now knew that the gunman was wanting to kill as many people as he possibly could, so this was their only chance to get away. But sadly, as the men tried to crawl away from him, they wouldn't get very far, because soon enough, George approached them and began firing in their direction. One of the bullets hit Steven Doty in the chest, and the other hit Kirby Lack in the hip.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And as he shot the men, George yelled out, was it worth it? The women of Belton and Killeen are vipers. Ultimately, 43-year-old Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Doty would be killed.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
restaurant chain luby's has been around since 1947 with its first location opening in san antonio and throughout the years it's become a staple in texas for its delicious comfort food when you go through the front doors you get in line and grab yourself a green tray and a set of silverware in front of you a worker will then ask what kind of meat you want
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
throughout his time in the military stephen doughty was highly respected he enlisted in 1969 and won a number of medals flying reconnaissance missions for the army in vietnam he was also a crucial part of an airlift operation in the persian gulf war but stephen was now in his 40s and he was looking forward to retirement sadly he was actually set to retire later that month
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
and in this new chapter of life, he was looking forward to doing what he loved to do, spending time with family, working on cars, and jet skiing with friends and family. Lieutenant Colonel Stephen Doty would leave behind his wife Patricia, three sons Michael, Martin, and Justin, and a daughter named Tiffany.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Kirby Lack would later say that he tried to help Steven Doty, but it was too late, and he too had been shot by the gunman. When Kirby looked down, his shirt was saturated with blood, and all he could do in that moment was lie down and play dead. He would later say, quote, "'I had just smeared some blood on my face, and I covered my face with my hand, hoping he would think I was dead.'" End quote.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But eventually, Kirby would hear the gunman walk back over to him. He tried to lay there as still as he possibly could. And it's here where George Henard checked to see if he was alive. Kirby would later say, quote, "'He kicked me. I didn't move.'" And he reached down and stuck the barrel of the 9mm to the back of my head. And just as he pushed, I literally said my last prayer.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
I thought I was dead." But luckily, Kirby Lack would survive.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
From here, George would make his way over to the northern portion of the restaurant where he shot and killed 64-year-old Juanita Williams. Juanita was the president of the Hardo Texas Credit Union. Juanita was the definition of a hard-working woman.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
After growing up in Corsicana, she decided to get an education at the Texas Women's University in Denton, and shortly after, in 1948, she would marry a man named Sid Williams. She and Sid had lived in nearby Temple, Texas for the past 13 years, where Juanita really made a name for herself.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
and in 1991 she had earned the highest title in her career president of the credit union juanita was actually set to retire in just four short months however that would all change when the gunman walked over to her table and took her life and sadly the nightmare was far from over
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Next, George would make his way back to the center of the restaurant where he fired his gun at 62-year-old Kitty Davis and her friend, Barbara Knight. The two had been at Luby's that morning to meet up with their old coworkers from the Fort Hood Dental Clinic. Both Barbara and Kitty had recently retired from the clinic, but they still enjoyed getting together with everyone several times a year.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And on this day, they all decided to meet up at Luby's. Barbara Knight would later say that after getting their food, she watched as her friend Kitty Davis sat down and said a quick prayer over her lunch, something Kitty always did. And over the next half hour or so, their group of 10 sat around the table ate their lunch, and chatted about everything going on in their lives.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
fried fish pork chops liver and onions meatloaf or chicken fried chicken you then tell them what you want they load it onto a plate and then slide it over to the next worker who's in charge of the vegetables and sides what sides do you want they'll ask you there's broccoli fried okra mashed potatoes mac and cheese mixed vegetables you name it after taking your pick they'll load it onto your plate and put a nice warm piece of bread on top from there you'll pour yourself a drink grab your plate
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now at about 12.15, the other eight people from their group got up to leave. But Barbara and Kitty decided to stay a little while longer. You see, Kitty was so excited to show Barbara pictures of her newborn grandson. But as she did, a truck came plowing through the restaurant. It ended up stopping just a few feet away from their table. And soon enough, Kitty turned to Barbara and said,
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
He's got a gun. Get down." For the next few minutes, Kitty and Barbara hid under their table, praying for the nightmare to be over. Barbara would later tell the Texas Monthly, quote, From then on, we stayed on the floor. I couldn't see him, but he got out of the pickup and started shooting right away. Bullets went through my foot and Kitty's finger. I didn't have my shoes on. I guess I lost them.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
That bullet went in and came out and just shredded her thumb. I knew I had been shot, but that was the least of my worries. The dishes were flying, cups and saucers off the table. He would make a circle. He kept walking around saying, this is what they've done to me in Belton. Is it really worth it? And I thought, man, this is not Belton. What are you doing here?
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Oh, your mind races like 90 miles a minute. We were just about to leave and I had my $5 bill in my hand and my check was $2.68 or something. I kept thinking, well, with this mess, how am I going to get up there and pay? Then I realized that the place was all shut up and there was no one to pay. I put my face down and I was very still. I was hoping to seem like I might be dead.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
I didn't holler or make any noise when I got hit in the foot because I just knew it wasn't the thing to do. It was very quiet in there, eerie quiet. Then he just came around again and shot Kitty in the back about two or three times. She had one of those machines, so I suspect she had made it herself. She said, I've been hit. Pray for me. And I did.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
I unhooked her bra and put a napkin there where she was bleeding. I didn't think she'd die, but her face turned really ashen. I knew it was bad, but I didn't think she would die. End quote.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Once the temperatures started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything. So we both decided to switch things up and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts, or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Everything with Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Go to quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash America to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash America. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Sadly, 62-year-old Kitty Davis would die. Kitty was born in Wengern, Germany in 1929, but had lived in Killeen, Texas since 1963. She would leave behind her husband, Arlia, two sons, Vernon and Dirk, three daughters, Diana, Becky, and Peggy, and six grandchildren.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
maybe even grab from their dessert section filled with pies cake and jello once you have everything you need a worker at the end of the line will take your payment and you make your way to your seat to enjoy your nice warm meal according to the chronicle the comfort and family environment you feel when you walk inside is enough to warm your heart lunch at luby's is like a hug from grandma and her telling you it'll be all right which is exactly why people have been going to luby's for decades
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
after murdering kitty davis the gunman approached another table in the restaurant hiding underneath was d leisure and glenn spivey the two worked at a nearby apartment complex called coral creek d worked in the main office and glenn was the maintenance supervisor but today they stopped by luby's on their lunch break the two often ate lunch together and d looked up to glenn as a father figure she said glenn was the man who could fix anything
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
He was sweet, caring, and always friendly. That afternoon, he had had a specific craving for fried okra, so they decided Luby's was their best option. Now, when they arrived there that afternoon, Dee actually suggested they go somewhere else because the line was really long. However, they ultimately decided to stay and wait it out.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
In last week's episode, we talked about the life of George Joe Hinnard, the man responsible for taking the lives of 23 people during the 1991 Luby's Massacre. George grew up in a strict military family. He would eventually follow in his father's footsteps and join the Navy, but his disagreeable personality made it hard for him to hold down a job.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
After getting their food, Dee and Glen took a seat near the west wall, and then suddenly they heard the loud crash and glass shattering all around. And before Dean knew it, she felt something strike her in the face. At first, she assumed it was glass, but then she saw George shooting at people throughout the restaurant.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And it was at that moment where she realized she had not been hit with glass, she had been struck by a bullet. Instinctually, she began screaming as she used her hand to cover the wound. She then screamed to Glenn that she had been shot. Together, they both got down on the ground away from the gunfire. And in a heroic move, Glenn rolled on top of Dee to shield her from any bullets.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now, luckily, upon these first few shots, the gunman had moved to another part of the restaurant. And as they waited in fear, Dee kept hearing the gunman scream about his hatred of women. So, surely, that's who he was targeting, she thought. To try and protect herself, Dee even grabbed the nearby plastic bin used to house dirty dishes.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Not only would this add some extra protection to her head, but it would also hide her long blonde hair. If this guy is targeting women, then maybe concealing her hair will save her life. But soon enough, they watched in horror as the gunman made his way over and stood at the foot of their table. Her co-worker, Glenn Spivey, was still on top of her, protecting her from the gunfire.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
The next thing Dee knew, she heard a loud pop. She then felt Glenn's body go limp over hers. She knew at that moment that Glenn had been shot, but she stayed as still as she possibly could. On top of her, Glenn had been shot point blank in the forehead. The blood from his wound dripped down onto her, and she could feel him struggling to take his last breaths.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
55-year-old Glenn Spivey would succumb to his injuries. And sadly, there isn't a lot of information about him online. But under a Facebook post about this tragedy, a woman wrote, Glenn Spivey was my stepdad, one of the kindest, most gentle men I've ever known.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
which makes sense considering he died trying to save his co-worker d but back inside the restaurant d watched as the gunman's feet finally stepped away from her table from there she was able to wiggle her way out from underneath glenn and when she did she made eye contact with an elderly woman hiding under another table she even crawled over and grabbed the woman's hand but as the two women huddled together george went back in their direction and fired off his gun while screaming
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
"'Was it worth it?' This time, a bullet went directly into Dee's hip. Now, luckily, she would survive, but she would later say that that's only because of Glenn Spivey's bravery."
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
By this point, George approached another table near the crash site, where Dr. Susanna Gradia was hiding with her parents, Al and Ursula. Earlier that day, Al and Ursula had gone to their daughter's job, the Cove Chiropractic Clinic, and they asked their daughter if she wanted to go to lunch. But Susanna wasn't sure, as she told her parents that she was swamped with patients all afternoon.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But ultimately, she decided to go. Now, when the truck first crashed into the building, Susanna thought the driver suffered from a medical emergency, so she actually got up to help him. But then she heard the gunshots. From there, she and her parents barricaded themselves behind a table near the east wall. And as she heard the gunman nearing closer,
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
she reached inside of her purse, where she usually kept her Smith & Wesson revolver. Susanna had bought the gun for self-protection, but sadly, when she reached inside, she realized the gun was in her car.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
In the town of Killeen, Texas, Luby's was a town favorite. And on Wednesday, October 16th, 1991, a large crowd began to fill the restaurant at around 11 a.m., lunch hour. But today, there are even more people than usual because it's Boss's Day. a holiday where employees get together to celebrate their amazing employers.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
At the time, it was illegal to carry a concealed weapon inside a place of business, so she had taken it out before she went into Luby's that day, meaning Dr. Susanna Gradia and her parents were helpless against the gunman. who was quickly approaching their table. But in an act of bravery, 71-year-old Al Gradia stood up and he charged at George.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Al knew that the man wouldn't stop shooting and he hoped to put a stop to it. Susanna would later say that she tried to stop her father, But it was too late. After charging at the gunman, Al wrestled him for the gun. But sadly, George overpowered him. And once he got control over the gun, he aimed it directly at Al's chest and pulled the trigger.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
His daughter Susanna would later say, quote, My dad broke away from my grasp and ran at the man. He saw my dad coming and simply turned to him and shot him. My dad went down in the aisle between me and the gunman. and I knew he wasn't going to make it." And for a brief moment, George Henner then walked away. Susanna and a few others used this opportunity to run out of the building.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But sadly, Al's wife Ursula ran to her husband's side instead. Susanna would later say, quote, they had just had their 47th wedding anniversary and she wasn't going anywhere without him. Ursula cradled her husband as he took his final breaths. And sadly, George would eventually make his way back over to her. Here is what would later be said about Ursula's death.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Both Al and Ursula died that day. Their daughter Susanna would later say that her mother was an executive secretary at Boeing and that she was the hardest working woman she knew. Her father Al had recently retired and often spent his days either on the golf course or inside working on his history book that he had been writing.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Susanna also said that on their way to lunch that morning, her parents were talking about how excited they were for their 50th wedding anniversary. They were still a few years away from it, but they couldn't wait to celebrate half a century of their love. However, they would never reach that milestone. Here is their daughter Susanna after the tragedy.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now sadly, when the shooting first started, the people who had been near the serving lines were the most exposed out of everyone. They didn't have any tables to hide under, so all they could do was hide beneath some small benches near the front, or the steel frame used to push trays down the line. Some customers who were hiding here were George Osborne and his wife Ethel.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
George Osborne crouched in front of his wife hoping to protect her, and they watched in horror as George scanned the restaurant for more survivors. Eventually, his eyes darted in their direction. George Osborne quickly whispered to his wife to stay still, but soon enough bullets were flying in their direction.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Fortunately, both George and Ethel made it out alive, but the two women lying next to them were shot. They were 63-year-old Clodine Humphrey and 64-year-old Zona Lynn. When the shots first rang out that morning, Zona, Clodine, and Reverend Shannon McMullen quickly got down on the ground and hid beneath a waiting bench near the front.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
The three of them had decided to eat at Luby's that morning after a board meeting of the Good Hope Western General Association. Zona and Clodine had served their community for over 20 years and were deeply involved in their local Sunday school.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now Luby's had been advertising for this holiday all week, inviting people to come and dine with them on the joyous occasion. So dozens of people from all around town were here on their lunch break with their bosses. But it wasn't just people celebrating Boss's Day. In fact, the military base in town called Fort Hood had just had their payday.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Clodine Humphrey had also helped care for the sick people at the Veterans Administration Medical Center and Zona was a retired school counselor and the head of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Sadly, when the shots rang out, Zona, Clodine, and Reverend Shannon McMullen were pretty much out in the open. The bench they were hiding behind didn't provide much protection.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
and when shots were fired in their direction, both Zona and Clodine were fatally struck. Reverend Shannon McMullen was struck in the leg, but would ultimately survive.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Under another bench, near the front of the restaurant, was Johnny Fitzwater and his wife Kelly. Both could only watch in horror as the people around them were murdered in cold blood. One of the hot shells from the 9mm even dropped into Johnny's hand as he carefully watched the lower half of George's torso walk away. Here are the Fitzwaters describing their experience.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
George then walked over to Connie Miller and Roxanne Peters, who were huddled together near the front of the restaurant. Roxanne closed her eyes as she heard the footsteps getting closer. George then raised his gun and said, Try to hide from me, bitch, as he fired one round at the two women.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Roxanne would later say that she felt the vibration of the bullet entering her friend, 41-year-old Connie Miller, and she remained as still as she could while Connie died pressed up against her body. Connie Miller was a very skilled chiropractor in town, but she also loved to give back to her community. Connie would volunteer at the immune center in town, giving free adjustments to AIDS patients.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
She was also interested in protecting the environment and had attended many national environmental meetings.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
people that she worked with would later say that connie was a loving and devoted mother with a zest for living whose love and compassion for others was evident we shall always remember her gentle spirit her healing decorum her beauty her grace and her loving smile connie is survived by her husband david miller two children o'neill age seven and haja age four
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
After murdering Connie Miller, the gunman walked over to another woman who was hiding under a table and with anger in his eyes, he pointed the gun directly in her face and pulled the trigger. However, luckily for her, George's Ruger was completely out of bullets. This woman who remained anonymous would survive the shooting.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But she would later say that when she closes her eyes, she can still hear the click of that gun. But inside the restaurant, George realized that he could no longer use his Ruger. So it's here where he set it down on a plate, right on top of a serving of fried chicken and hush puppies. Now, with his Glock 17 in hand, he made another round around the restaurant.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Eventually, two soldiers from Fort Hood named Harold Manbevers and Douglas Bailey noticed that George's back was to them. So they took this opportunity to grab a group of people and make a run towards the front door. But the next victim of this massacre was near the crash site. Hiding under a table was 45-year-old Olga Taylor, her daughter, Annika, and her four-year-old granddaughter, Lakeisha.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
So when the crowd of hungry customers were military personnel grabbing a bite to eat. And of course, there was the elderly crowd. If you've ever been to a Luby's, you'll notice that a large portion of their customers are older people. And that's because Luby's does a great job of catering to their demographic.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now, Oljuka had actually been shot in the leg towards the beginning of the shooting, but her daughter and four-year-old granddaughter had sat by her side. However, when George was making his final round around the restaurant, he stopped in front of their table once more. Kneeling down, now eye-level with the family, George said, quote, "'Tell people I ain't killing babies today.'"
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
He then nodded at Annika and Lakeisha and said, get out of here before I kill you both. The mother and daughter rushed out of the building to safety. But sadly, because of Olchika's gunshot wound to her leg, she was left behind. And soon enough, George shot her point blank, killing her instantly.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Olgika was born in Yugoslavia on June 11, 1946, and sadly, there isn't a lot of information out there about her, other than the fact that she left behind two daughters, Slobodanka and Anisha, who was there at the restaurant with her that morning.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Horrifically, Olgika would pass away, but I'm sure in her final moments, she was relieved to see that her daughter and granddaughter's lives were spared, as one of the last images she saw that day was them running out of the restaurant to safety.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
From there, George Henard looked around the restaurant, searching for any signs of life. Little did he know, there were still a group of people trapped towards the back of the room. Within this group was a man named Tommy Vaughn. Tommy would later say that when the shots rang out that day, he and his coworkers ducked under a table.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But something interesting that he said was that throughout the shooting, the restaurant was eerily quiet. The only sounds you heard were of course the gunshots and George Henard when he would scream out his ominous threats. But other than that, no one inside dared to make a peep. Doing so would reveal their position. So everyone stayed quiet.
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Tommy Vaughn would later say, quote, you expect people to do more and say more, but it's really quiet. really weird you don't expect it end quote but as george made his way around the restaurant once more tommy and his co-worker donald hudo knew it was now or never with bodies piled on the ground around them they knew they had to act quickly so donald turned to tommy and whispered
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kick the fucking window out. And Tommy tried, but he didn't succeed. After kicking it with all of his might, the window didn't budge. And horrifically, the noise caught George Henard's attention. Soon enough, he began shooting at the crowd of people near the window. But surprisingly, every shot missed. But with bullets raining in their direction,
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Tommy Vaughn felt a rush of adrenaline like no other. As George approached them, he started slamming his body up against the window as hard as he possibly could. And eventually, the glass shattered. From there, a crowd of about 15 people began piling out of the window, running towards the parking lot where it was safe.
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Not only did they provide nostalgic comfort food, but on this day in question, they were also offering half-off specials for senior citizens. So the Luby's and Killeen was packed with over 160 people inside. If I were to show you a glimpse of what the restaurant looked like that day, you'd see servers weaving in and out between tables and chairs, balancing trays of empty plates and glassware.
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And as they did, the sound of George's Glock continued to fire in the background.
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One of the people who ran out of the window was a woman named Betty May. Here she is describing her experience that day.
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If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
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On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact.
Murder In America
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I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show. than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
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Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
Murder In America
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The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story. Out in the parking lot, a large crowd gathered, just waiting for the nightmare to come to an end. Every once in a while, they would watch as groups of people ran outside, with looks of absolute horror on their faces.
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Some people were severely wounded, others were completely unscathed. Now, keep in mind, the shooting only started a few minutes before this. Everything happened very quickly. Most mass shootings do. But earlier on, when the shots first rang out, an employee named Angela Wilson was able to run outside and get help.
Murder In America
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She actually met up with her boyfriend in the parking lot, and together they ran to the high-low auto parts next door. Frantic, they screamed at the clerk that there was a crazed gunman shooting up the Luby's cafeteria. As others escaped, they too found their way to the store and yelled similar stories.
Murder In America
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One man named Robert Holland even had gone behind the counter and picked up the phone to call 911. The call came to dispatch at 1240 p.m., just one minute after the shooting started. From there, Officer Ken Olsen and Chuck Longwell responded to the scene, but by the time they arrived, most of the victims inside were already dead.
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Interestingly, Ken Olsen and Chuck Longwell were actually narcotics officers, so they showed up wearing plain clothes. When they arrived on scene, the people in the parking lot didn't even realize that help had arrived. But together, the two officers carefully made their way towards the entrance of the restaurant, making sure to conceal themselves behind a row of parked cars.
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Eventually, George spotted the two men and opened fire. It was obvious that they needed backup quickly. And luckily, next door at the Sheraton Hotel, a group of Killeen police officers were taking a course on auto theft when they too heard the commotion.
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You'd hear the sounds of chatter, laughter, and the clatter of dishes. It was definitely chaotic, as lunch hour always is. But at the same time, it still had that welcoming, lively atmosphere that Luby's is known for. However, as people ate their meals and enjoyed quality time with their families, friends, and coworkers, no one had any idea that their lives were all about to change forever.
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When the officers at the hotel looked outside, they saw a group of patrons running across the joint parking lot, and they immediately knew that something was wrong. Not only were these people running, but they had looks of pure terror on their faces. One of the officers stepped outside to find out what was going on, and a woman began screaming that a man was shooting everyone inside of the Luby's.
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From here, the officers rushed outside to their cars where they had stashed and locked away their weapons and ammunition. And as they all geared up, they heard the distinctive popping sounds of gunfire. Whoever was responsible was still inside shooting. So together, they all made their way towards the restaurant with one goal in mind. To take down the gunman.
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Narcotics officer Ken Olson had been keeping an eye on George through a window. And when he saw George lift up his Glock to shoot someone, Ken lifted his own gun and aimed it at the gunman. The shot hit George right in his hip, but he was still alive. A customer inside named Mary Roberts recalled watching George as he stumbled backwards.
Murder In America
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She was extremely thankful for the shot because if it had happened a half a second later,
Murder In America
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As Officer Ken Olson entered the restaurant with his partner, Chuck Longwell, he fired another shot at George Hennard. And this time he aimed high so that he wouldn't hit any potential survivors. But the shot missed George. And from there, he crawled over from the dining room into the alcove near the restrooms.
Murder In America
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There were a group of customers and employees hiding in the restrooms, barricading themselves inside. So when they heard the shooter outside the door, They were terrified. Luckily for them, this nightmare was about to be over. George Hennard was now cornered. As officers Ken Olsen and Chuck Longwell made their way inside, glass crunched beneath their shoes.
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They had to step in pools of blood, and there were dead bodies lying all around them. But they couldn't think about that right now. Using George's Ford Ranger as their shield, Chuck yelled out to George, telling him to surrender, but in response, George yelled back. Fuck you! George then aimed his Glock at the two officers and fired several rounds in their direction.
Murder In America
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Bullets pinged off the truck's windshield and hood, but no one was hit. George then yelled out again. Officer Ken Olson returned fire, emptying his entire magazine in George's direction. Meanwhile, an officer named Al Morris, who had been at the hotel next door, came in for backup.
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al would later say that walking into the restaurant that day gave him flashbacks to the jungles of vietnam he also couldn't help but notice the amount of bodies all over the floor he would later say quote i didn't know how many exactly he had shot but when i got in there i saw some of the people and i knew they were gone their faces were completely white almost to the point that they looked
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Because at 1239 p.m., George Hennard's Blue Ford Ranger was speeding right towards the restaurant's main entrance.
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"'like mannequins. "'There was just no blood in the faces.'" But from there, the three officers continued firing shots at George Hennard, and they were able to shoot him two more times in his lower extremities. Now, knowing it was all about to come to an end, George tried to buy himself some more time. He even yelled out that he had some hostages, but Ken Olson didn't believe him.
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They asked George to show them the hostages, but they were met with silence. And they could tell by the sound of George's voice that he was growing weaker. His gunshot wounds were slowing him down. So from here, they decided to advance towards the shooter. and take him out once and for all. As the officers inched forward, George knew it was all over.
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And in his Glock, there was only one bullet remaining. He was now lying on his stomach, barely able to move from his gunshot wounds. So in his last act of control, George Henard rolled over on his back, lifted the gun to his right temple and pulled the trigger. The fatal shot came out of the left side of his head. And finally, Just 12 minutes after the shooting started, it was all over.
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No one inside saw him coming, so no one had any time to react. Before they knew it, his truck jumped a curb and crashed straight through the floor-to-ceiling windows near the main entrance. The truck traveled about 20 feet inside the restaurant, sending tables, chairs, food, and glass flying into the air. The truck directly hit a table, where two Walmart employees were enjoying lunch.
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George Henard ended his reign of terror by shooting himself in the head the day after his 35th birthday. This day also happened to be the day before his second anniversary of losing his mariner's license. But inside that alcove near the Luby's restrooms, the officers turned the corner and saw the gunman dead.
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Eerily, there's this picture of him where his eyes are wide open, staring straight up at the ceiling. We will be posting this picture along with other crime scene photos on our Patreon. But after confirming that the gunman was dead, Chuck then grabbed his radio to report what he found.
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Suspect is dead. Shot himself in the head.
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From there, he turned around and scanned the restaurant. There were bodies everywhere and there were survivors with serious injuries. So Chuck then radioed again.
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We've got at least, I don't know, eight to 10 wounded here. We're gonna need medics.
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Here is Officer Ken Olson describing his experience that day.
Murder In America
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Once the gunman was down, first responders quickly rushed in to assess the damage, and it was truly unlike anything they had ever seen. Upon first glance, it looked as if a bomb had gone off in the building. There was a dark gray cloud of smoke that lingered in the air. There was glass everywhere, overturned tables and chairs. The ceiling fans had even been shredded to pieces from the gunfire.
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Food, plates, and silverware covered the floor. Also covering the floor was a sea of bodies, riddled with bullet wounds. Everywhere they looked, there was blood soaked deep into the patterned carpet. The deceased victims were found all around the restaurant. Many were lying under tables or behind their self-made barricades.
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Some were even piled on top of each other as they were trying to protect their loved ones. With each body they came across, investigators grabbed a green Luby's napkin and placed it over their face. Here's a report of what the first responders saw that day.
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Also among the carnage were the survivors. 33 people had been injured that day. Some were barely clinging onto life. Upon seeing that the police had arrived, many were frantic for help.
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Their names were Tom Simmons and Luis Carabello. As the truck crashed into the restaurant, Luis had gone flying through the air, crashing down with a hard thud, injuring his leg. The truck also hit the waitress station, and a crate of glass ketchup bottles crashed down onto the truck's hood.
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And depending on their condition, they were transported to three different hospitals in Central Texas. The Darnell Army Hospital at Fort Hood, the Metroplex Hospital in Killeen, and the Scott and White Memorial Hospital.
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The wounded victims were Patricia J. Atkinson, Luis Caraballo, Barbara S. Crawford, Linda Davis, Mary Diaz, Judith Ernst, Steve Ernst, Johnny Fitzwater, Kelly Fitzwater, Susanna Gracia, Celia Guillette,
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olivia gutierrez joanne heckathorn susan hester hazel holly odine huron gene rhodes isa dale sydney earl isa dale kirby lack bernadette d leisure mark shinchi matthews betty may shannon mcmullen billy meals addie bell moss barbara knight marjorie park mary roberts maria sylvia cerna charlene smith delbert smith james swift and thomas vaughn
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They were all transported and treated for various injuries including gunshot wounds, fractures, lacerations, and emotional shock.
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October 16th, 1991 would forever change the community of Killeen, Texas. What had started out as a beautiful Wednesday afternoon quickly turned into a day of terror and bloodshed. That night, flags around the city flew at half-staff. Outside the restaurant, victims' family members waited in agony to learn the fate of their loved ones.
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One by one, first responders rolled people out in stretchers, rushing them to nearby hospitals. But after a while, they stopped, meaning everyone still left inside of the restaurant was deceased. there were many tears shed out in the parking lot that day as family members came to terms with the fact that their loved one wasn't coming home.
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In the seconds after the crash, the live chatter inside the dining room halted as everyone turned their eyes towards the main entrance. For a brief moment, everything froze. The atmosphere inside that Luby's went from friendly and welcoming to confusion and worry. But people weren't necessarily fearing for their lives. In fact, at first, many people were worried for the driver.
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And the entire time, they couldn't help but look at the blue Ford Ranger that was still parked there in the restaurant among all the broken glass. Investigators would work the crime scene for hours, and by 8 p.m. that day, the bodies of the deceased were finally taken out. The nearby Sheraton Hotel served as a command post for law enforcement and victims' family members.
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When the death count was released to the public, everyone was shocked. 23 people lost their lives inside of Luby's that day, making it, at the time, the deadliest mass shooting in American history. And it would hold that record for 26 years until another Texas gunman killed 26 people at the Sutherland Springs Church in 2017.
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Perhaps he had a medical emergency while driving his car. Or maybe he accidentally pressed the accelerator instead of the brakes. Whatever the case may be, people began to rush forward to try and assist. Because that's what people do. They help others in need.
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But on the night of the Luby's massacre, outside in the parking lot, reporters spoke to witnesses of the shooting. Here is a report from Robert Riggs and the witnesses he spoke to that day. You'll hear him say the death count is 22, but the accurate number is 23.
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the witnesses from inside recounted the horrors of what they just went through. Here is Steve and Jane Gaither, who were dining at the Luby's when the shooting first started.
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33-year-old Walmart employee Tom Simmons was one of these people. Even though he had just been hit by the truck, Tom pulled himself off the ground and approached the truck's passenger side door. But in response, the driver, 35-year-old George Hennard, aimed his P89 Ruger and fired four shots in Tom's direction. From there, Tom Simmons stumbled backwards and fell to the ground.
Murder In America
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The company of Luby's was also devastated that an act of violence happened within their restaurant, a restaurant that is supposed to bring people comfort.
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The town of Killeen, Texas was completely devastated with the loss of 23 lives, 24 if you count the gunmen. At the time, Killeen only had a population of around 60,000, so it was a pretty tight-knit community. And the Luby's restaurant, once a staple in town, was now eerily quiet, as the weight of heartbreak and sorrow had silenced everything.
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friends neighbors and loved ones clung to each other as they tried to make sense of the tragedy and they came together as a community to honor the lives lost patricia carney jimmy eugene carruthers criminal kitty davis lieutenant colonel stephen charles doughty united states army al gracia jr ursula susie gracia deborah ann gray dr michael griffith venice allen henehan claudine humphrey sylvia king
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It also made it hard for him to maintain relationships. Throughout the 1980s, George Henard's mental health was on a downward spiral. He became overwhelmingly paranoid, he distrusted women, and he truly believed that people were following him and tapping his phones. But none of this was actually happening.
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zona honeycutt lynn connie dean miller ruth pajal suzanne neil rashad john raymond romero jr thomas earl simmons glenn arvill spivey nancy faye stansbury olgika taylor james welch lula welch and juanita williams
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That night, as the news hit the national media, America mourned right along with the town of Killeen, Texas. Back in 1991, before Columbine and Sandy Hook, a senseless act of violence like this wasn't common like it is today. People couldn't understand how something like this could have happened. And like with every tragedy, People just wanted to know why.
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Why would a man set out to shoot and kill as many people as he could? Sadly, we are still asking these questions today and we still don't have answers.
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Following the shooting, the identity of the shooter was released to the public, 35-year-old George Joe Henard. Interestingly, George's real name was George Pierre Henard, but shortly before the shooting, he had changed it to George Joe. But from here, investigators would try to piece together the puzzle as to what made George snap.
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Soon enough, the nation would learn about the disturbed individual responsible for the shooting, and that there were clearly warning signs that had been missed. A thorough search of his home in Belton produced little evidence, but they did find a lot of stuff that proved George was a disturbed individual.
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They learned that he harbored a deep hatred of women, and that he had a fascination with murder. Investigators seized a desk calendar that had cryptic messages, angry notes, video shrines, photos from his travels, model planes, and the original boxes of the Ruger and Glock. Inside the master bedroom, they located a picture of George playing his drums in the desert.
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And it was at that very moment, When everyone inside realized that this was no accident, George Hinnard had just murdered his first victim.
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On the back was written a handwritten note that read, Love you mother, June 91, Nevada desert. George, grand, final solo. It was also clear that in the months before the shooting, George was clearly going through a mental health crisis. After speaking with family members and looking through his belongings, it painted a picture of a paranoid man who truly believed women were out to get him.
Murder In America
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Survivor stories from inside Luby's that day confirmed this, as George was walking through the restaurant, being very vocal about his hatred towards women.
Murder In America
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Reporters would also speak with Mary Mead, the owner of the convenience store where George would buy his breakfast every morning. And here's what she had to say about him.
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Reporters also spoke with Jane Bug and her two daughters, who recounted their terrifying experiences with George Henard, the threatening letters and phone calls, how he would wait outside and flash his headlights at them. The warning signs were all there. Jane Bug knew he was a danger the entire time, She even tried warning the police about him, but no one seemed to take her seriously.
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Tom Simmons had lived in Killeen for the past four years with his wife, Anne Marie, and their two young daughters, Diane and Christie. Growing up as an Eagle Scout, Tom had learned the importance of working hard and giving back to his community. He had recently been promoted to the manager of Walmart's automotive department. His coworkers would later say, he was an easy man to work for.
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Here is Jane Bug reading parts of that ominous letter to reporters.
Murder In America
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It also came out that George Henard would actually call the police department all the time. In some instances, he would call to report that people were stealing things from him. He also called the police regularly to tell them that people were bugging his phone and that sometimes people would call him and play loud music.
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In other calls to the police, he said that people would call him and that the person on the other end would just start laughing. Of course, it's believed that none of this was actually true.
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And interestingly, George had a very strange message on his answering machine. If people called and he didn't answer, they would hear this voicemail message that said, "'Yo, cuz, you've reached Public Street. Leave your name, number, time, and message. Hang-up phone calls are absolutely prohibited, and you'll get bugged if you do so.'"
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As reporters spoke to the people who lived around George, no one had anything nice to say about him. One neighbor said that at one point, a young boy had stepped on his property to grab a baseball that had landed in his yard. And George just started screaming at the young boy. Another resident said that George was known to play loud rock music at all hours of the night.
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and refused to turn it down. But the one thing that everyone noticed was his love for his truck. His 79 year old neighbors said that George washed it every single day in the front yard of the mansion. So it was unsettling knowing that he used that very truck to commit his crime. Slowly but surely, after speaking with the police and neighbors,
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the community of Killeen was learning more about this disturbed individual, someone who had clearly been showing red flags for months now.
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If you wanted someone to talk to, you could talk to him about anything. He was also described as a good man who took care of people, which is exactly what he was doing when he was murdered. Tom tried helping George Hennard, thinking he was in need of help, and in response, he was shot in cold blood.
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Now, as all of these disturbing details were revealed, everyone wanted to know how this individual fell through the cracks of law enforcement. This wasn't a guy who operated in the shadows. His disturbing behavior was right out in the open. and the police knew about it. However, Captain Cosper would later say, quote, there was nothing to suggest that he was capable of becoming a mass murderer.
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I don't see how anybody can suggest that even if he had been arrested, it would have prevented this tragedy, end quote.
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And one thing we want to note is in the last episode, we referred to the mansion as his father's home, but it was actually given to George's mom after his parents divorced, so it technically was her home. Now, she lived in Henderson, Nevada, so when George was living there, it was just him in the house all by himself.
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But after the shooting, reporters would speak to George's mother, and she said that she had just spoken on the phone with him a few days prior, on his 35th birthday, and that he sounded perfectly fine. So she was shocked to learn that he was responsible for the deadly mass shooting. She would later say, This is so frightening, so devastating. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say.
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I'm interested in one thing, this tragedy and the death of my beautiful son. It was also found that George was estranged from his own father at the time of the shooting. It had been about a year since the two had spoken to each other. The reporters would eventually speak to Dr. Hennard and he said that he had no idea why his son would commit this crime.
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Now, the other Walmart employee, Luis Carabello, whose leg was injured from the crash, laid helplessly on the floor. Not only did he hurt his leg, but he had also been hit by a stray bullet. But luckily, Luis would make it out alive.
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But despite everything, he said that they did care about George and that they were making arrangements for his funeral.
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As the reporters continued to dig into George's past, they uncovered even more about the disturbed killer. Isaiah Williams, an old coworker of his, would later describe George as, quote, hyper vindictive and always in a hurry, end quote. He went on to say that George was always getting into fights with people, saying quote, he always wanted to straighten out the score.
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He acted like he didn't confide in anybody or trust in anybody, end quote. Another coworker named Pete Martinez said he was quote, always a loner type around here. We didn't know of him befriending anybody in San Pedro, end quote. As all of these accounts came to light,
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Killeen Police Chief Gia Cosmosi told the public that clearly the gunman had a problem with women, which was evident as 14 of the 23 victims were female. Interestingly, another story eventually came to light showing just how misogynistic he truly was.
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in the 1980s a law professor named anita hill would come forward with sexual harassment allegations against supreme court justice nominee clarence thomas and back when all of that was happening george hennard walked into a store and saw anita hill pop up on a tv and as soon as he saw her he became enraged witnesses would later say that he threw a tantrum right there in the store
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In the weeks after the massacre, many other women in town came forward with horrifying stories of George. One young woman said that George had been stalking her. She worked at this bank in town and one day while she was working, she looked up to see George just standing there with this creepy grin on his face.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Then a few weeks later, she was shopping in town when George walked through the front door and greeted her with that same creepy smile. Another girl would come forward saying that she called the police on George once after he made an obscene gesture at her. But of course, nothing ever came of it. But these countless stories helped paint a picture of the disturbed mass shooter.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
At this point, everyone was frantic, running around the restaurant trying to find an exit. But many were unable to escape. So all they could do was duck under the tables and hide. They then watched as the gunman emerged from his truck, wielding two semi-automatic pistols in each of his hands. And he still had a cigarette dangling from his lips as he screamed out, this is for the women of Belton.
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To everyone that knew him, it was known that George hated women, but no one really knew why. They also didn't know why he was motivated to massacre 23 people in Luby's. The police chief would later say in a press conference, quote, the who's what's and why's we may never be able to figure out.
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The reason we may never be able to find out is because Henard is truly the only one who knows and he left behind nothing that we have found that would indicate he was going to do this, end quote.
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But from here, the town of Killeen was forced to pick up the pieces of this horrible tragedy. For every funeral held, the town came together to show their respect, with hundreds of people filling up the churches. Outside of the funerals, everyone cried and held each other in disbelief. A billboard even went up in town that read, Lord, comfort our town in our time of loss.
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And something everyone wanted the public to know was that the gunman was not one of them. He wasn't from Killeen, and neither were the guns he used in the shooting. Killeen is a strong community who care about their neighbors. George Henard was not this kind of person. But as strong as they are, the emotional scars that this tragedy left behind were heavy.
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In the months and years after the shooting, many of the survivors reported on the severe PTSD they had. Tommy Vaughn, the man who busted out one of the windows during the shooting, which ultimately saved the lives of around 15 people, says that he thinks about a potential mass shooting wherever he goes.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And anytime he steps into a restaurant, he carefully picks a seat, where he can see everything going on around him. Another person affected by the tragedy was Officer Al Morris. Al helped to take the gunman down that day. Like we mentioned earlier, he served in Vietnam as crew chief mechanic.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Al said that during his time in Vietnam, his helicopter had been shot down five different times, and that at one point, a bullet even passed right through his shirt. After Vietnam, he experienced PTSD as many soldiers did. But following the Luby's massacre, he was no longer having flashbacks of being in the jungles of Vietnam.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now, when he closed his eyes, he said, I had a constant VCR in my head and all I could see were bodies lying on the floor, which I'm sure was the case for many survivors of that day.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
and one specific survivor that you'll hear about when researching the story is suzanne gracia hup after witnessing the death of her parents she was desperate to make a change in legislation like we had mentioned suzanne had left her weapon inside her car that day because in 1991 texas was not a concealed carry state she would later go before the texas senate and say i was fully prepared to blow this guy away i had good position with the table to prop my arm on and he was standing up with his back turned three quarters in my direction
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
I reached back for my purse, and that's when I realized I'd taken the gun out and left it in the car. I was very angry at my legislators for legislating me out of the right to protect myself and my family, and I was angry at myself for having obeyed a stupid law that I think got a lot of people killed. She would later say, "'Could I have hit the guy? He was 15 feet from me. He was up.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Everybody in the restaurant was down. I've hit much smaller targets at much greater distances.'" Was I completely prepared to do it? Absolutely. Could my gun have jammed? It's a revolver, so it's possible. But is it likely? Could I have missed? Yeah, it's possible. But the one thing no one can argue with is that it would have changed the odds.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Dr. Susanna Gradia-Hupp would also say that she wasn't angry with the gunman, comparing him to a rabid dog. Her anger was directed towards legislators who she believed stripped away her right to defend herself. She would later tell the Associated Press, quote, you can't help it, but every time you close your eyes, you relive it. And then you relive it with a gun in your hand. What if, end quote.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Susanna would also make a very chilling and accurate statement. She said, quote, there's somebody out there right now thinking, "'I could get a bigger body bag count.'" And she couldn't have been more right. There are people out there with these exact thoughts, people who wanna set a record. And there are people who have. We see it all the time here in America.
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And that's why Susanna sought out to put guns in the hands of the good guys. And I know we get a lot of comments of people thinking we are anti-gun, but we are all for good guys with guns. And I know there are a ton of people out there that carry who wouldn't hesitate to take out a bad guy with a gun if they were given the chance.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Belton was the city where George had been living. the very city where he terrorized women with his strange and paranoid behavior. But from there, George began wielding his guns, shooting randomly throughout. The sounds of gunfire filled the air, and in just a few short seconds, George had fired 34 rounds into the crowd of people.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And for our Texas listeners who carry, you can thank Susanna Gradia for this because she's actually the one who helped make that possible. After her legislative fight in 1995, Senate Bill 60 passed. which allowed legalized concealed carry in the state of Texas.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
over the years texas has passed even more gun laws which has caused a lot of controversy in 2013 the open carry law was passed which allowed citizens to openly carry their handguns in public spaces according to an article in texas monthly today you can saunter down main street with a semi-automatic rifle hanging jauntily from your shoulder strap on august 1st 2016 the 50th anniversary of the ut tower shooting concealed carry became legal on public university campuses
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And as of 2021, Texans no longer need a permit or training to carry a firearm.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But in 1991, for about six months after the shooting, the Luby's in Killeen, Texas remained closed. However, the company continued to pay its 45 employees who witnessed the massacre firsthand. But in March of 1992, they reopened the restaurant with a new look. Instead of the floor-to-ceiling plate glass windows,
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
that allowed the gunmen to drive straight into the restaurant, they installed a series of panes that stopped at a three foot high still. In addition, an extra emergency door was added near the serving line. But I can imagine that the shooting was hard on their business. And on September 9th, 2000, Luby's would close their doors permanently and a Chinese buffet named Yangxing would take its place.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Today, Yangxing remains open on East Central Texas Expressway, but the city memorialized their victims by adding a pink granite memorial behind the Killeen Community Center. The names of the deceased are etched into the stone, along with the date of the event. It serves as a permanent reminder of the lives lost and how at any moment tragedy can strike.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
The mayor of Killeen would later release a statement to the Killeen Daily Herald that said, No community is, or ever could be, prepared for the tragedy which struck Killeen on October 16, 1991. Our hope and prayers are that a similar event will never again occur in any community.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
However, that would not be the case, because 18 years later, another mass shooting would mark their community, where gunmen shot and killed 13 people at Fort Hood. Like with the Luby's massacre, the community was devastated that they had once again become victimized by gun violence. It was like ripping off an old scab that they had been trying to heal for nearly two decades.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
The Observer recently spoke with a pastor from Killeen named Jimmy Towers, who talked about the countless tragedies their town had gone through. Jimmy told them, The Observer continues, It's not uncommon for Killeen residents to travel to the airport to greet caskets carrying fallen soldiers coming home to the Army's top training spot for heavy forces.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But Jimmy told them, The community's resilience through the years of life, death, and tragedy has helped us handle it well. For me, I'm still dealing with the PTSD of a number of people. We're being presented to the world as a place of tragedy. When the challenges come, we've been exposed to and trained by people who say, meet the challenge. But are there emotional scars? You bet.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
When I go to lunch with people, they still don't want to sit with their back to the door of the restaurant.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Which is still the case for a number of survivors of the Luby's Massacre. Sure, many of their physical wounds have healed, but their emotional wounds still haunt them over 30 years later. We mentioned one survivor named Kirby Lack. On the day of the shooting, he watched his best friend, Dr. Michael Griffith, die right in front of him.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now keep in mind, there were over 160 people inside of Luby's that day. So the scene was chaotic as people ran for their lives. The ones closest to the truck when it crashed through the building were the first targeted victims. Many were still on the ground after being catapulted through the air. And before they were even able to get up, they saw the gunmen coming in their direction.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Kirby was also shot in the hip that day, so he knows what it's like to live with PTSD. Kirby is now a pastor in Killeen and a city councilman. But even though he has worked on healing for the past 30 years, he still has difficult days. Kirby would later say that when he woke up in the hospital after the shooting, he started having nightmares.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
One was that the gunman had a cousin who came into the hospital with a gun to finish the job. Nowadays, he doesn't have nightmares like that anymore, but he definitely stays on guard wherever he goes. Sometimes, Kirby said he even goes to the restaurant where the shooting took place. Like we mentioned, it is now a Chinese restaurant, but when he goes, he sits at the same table where he was shot.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
To him, it's his way of taking control, a reminder to himself that his past no longer controls him. Another survivor is Tommy Vaughn, the one who busted through the window that day. He would later tell the Killeen Daily Herald, quote, It changed me. Not a day goes by where I don't watch the people that come around me. Not in a scared way, but I just want to know what they're doing.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
When I go to a restaurant, I want to see who's coming in and who's going out. Out of second nature, I'll look for ways to get out. End quote. And lastly, there's Al Morris, the police officer who helped take down the gunman.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
He would retire from the Killeen Police Department in the year 2000, but the Luby's massacre is something he will always remember saying, quote, I don't think you'll ever forget. "'Every time there's a shooting at another location, "'you'll always remember the Luby's massacre. "'It's never going out of your mind.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
"'Every year when October 16th comes up, "'you still remember, like your birthday or anniversary.'" Many survivors of mass shootings share these exact same feelings. And while over time, things do get better, you never quite forget, even decades later, something the people of Killeen, Texas, know all too well.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
This is actually one of our last episodes of the year as we're taking our holiday break, but we'll still be posting episodes to our Patreon. So if you want to continue listening and get access to those bonus episodes that will be posted throughout December, make sure to head over to patreon.com and sign up to be a member.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
We will also be posting all of the crime scene photos from this case, which we feel are important to understand just how depraved and gruesome these mass shootings are on our Patreon. And lastly, in honor of this episode, we will be making a donation to Everytown for Gun Safety, which is an organization that works to end gun violence here in America. Hey, everybody. It's Colin here.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Thank you for listening this year to Murder in America. Courtney and I are going to be coming out with some Christmas stuff and some end of the year stuff. So you can look forward to that at the end of December. But we are just so happy and so proud and just so delighted to have everybody out there listening.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
This is a story that we've wanted to tell for years, especially because it impacted Texas, the state that we call home. And there's just so much. I mean... It's just crazy too how that happened in the 90s and it's still happening today. In Texas specifically. There's Sutherland Springs. There's Uvalde. It just doesn't seem to end.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But if you want to listen to more episodes, if you want to continue listening to the bonus stuff that we're posting on our Patreon, be sure to sign up for Patreon. You can get early ad-free access to all of our episodes, bonus episodes of the show, updates from Courtney and I. There's tons of stuff on there. And if you love Murder in America, you should join our growing community on Patreon.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
One of these people was 57-year-old Patricia Carney. Patricia was the director of elementary curriculum for the Killeen School District. Her employees had brought her to Luby's that day to celebrate her, on Boss's Day. So with Patricia were a few colleagues, including her husband Sam, who was a district attendance officer.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
We love every single person that is helping support the show on there. Also, be sure to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every case that we cover. And if you've never checked out my YouTube channel, You can either check out The Paranormal Files or The Conspiracy Files and listen to my other show, The Conspiracy Files.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Basically, if you like Courtney and I and what we're doing here, there's a lot of ways you can help support us and things you can go watch. But anyways, we wish you all the best December, the happiest of holidays. We'll be back in a couple of weeks and we'll miss you guys. But yeah, so much love to everybody. Catch you on the next one.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Patricia and Sam met in high school, but he was more of the party type and Patricia was very studious. The two didn't start dating until college and from there, they both decided to be educators. They would also go on to have three children. Rick, Nikki, and Rania. At the time of the shooting, their children were all grown up.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
In fact, that morning, Sam and Patricia had asked their son, Rick, to join them for lunch, but he declined, a decision he has thought about ever since. Now, after the truck barreled through the building, a group of people quickly ran outside. Patricia's husband, Sam Carney, was one of them. He would later say that he thought his wife was right by his side.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
George Henard showed signs of his mental decline for years, and sadly, no one stepped in to intervene. Then, on October 16th, 1991, in his final act, George would commit one of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history. So today's episode is about just that, the horrific massacre that forever changed the town of Killeen, Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
However, when he looked around, he noticed that Patricia wasn't there. She was still inside the building. Sam tried running back in, but the people around him physically held him back. When the police would arrive later on, he would even ask for one of their guns. so he could take down the gunman himself. However, they wouldn't allow it.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
But back inside the restaurant, a coworker of Patricia's would later say that as soon as the shots rang out, they immediately dropped to the ground. Patricia then whispered, it looks like we're fixing to meet the Lord. Eventually, the gunman would approach them. He lifted up their table and fired multiple rounds towards the women huddled on the floor.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Patricia's coworker said that they were pressed so tightly together, she thought she had been shot, as she was completely covered in blood. However, that wasn't the case. 57-year-old Patricia Carney was dead. Her husband, Sam, would later say, quote, "'That son of a bitch destroyed my life with one shot.'"
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Other employees from the Killeen School District were also there celebrating Bosses Day. Hiding under a nearby table was elementary school counselor Susan Hester. She was actually supposed to have lunch earlier that day, but three students needed her help that morning, so she pushed her lunch break back until 11.50 a.m.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
The students were part of a program called Chapter One, which helps kids with learning disabilities or family dysfunction. The creator of this program was a man named James Swift. So, after work that day, Susan and James, along with a big group of teachers and administrators, made their way over to Luby's to enjoy their lunch.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
They wanted to celebrate James Swift's dedication to the troubled youth in the Colleen School District. James was a good man who treated his staff with utmost professionalism and respect. He never missed a birthday, a holiday, or any special event. And today was Boss's Day, so they were there to thank him for that.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Now, along with Susan and James, there was Nancy Stansberry, Ruth Pajal, Sylvia Taylor, and Arlene Aldrich. And now, all six of them were hiding under a table, as a gunman made his way around the restaurant. Susan would later say that as she laid on the pattern-carpeted floor, she thought about how she might never see her husband and kids again.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Her colleague, Sylvia Taylor, grabbed her hand and whispered that God was going to see them through this, and together they prayed. But at that moment, George Hennard began walking in their direction, all while screaming out, Wait till those fucking women in Belton see this. I wonder if they'll think it was worth it.
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EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
George suddenly reached their table, aimed his gun underneath, and fired off several shots. The women's boss, James Swift, was able to shield most of them from the gunfire. And in the process, a bullet burst through his foot. When the gunfire stopped,
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Susan Hester, Sylvia Taylor, and Arlene Aldrich were all okay, but their colleagues, 44-year-old Nancy Stansberry and 55-year-old Ruth Pulgel, had been shot. Nancy Stansberry was the supervisor for the Killeen School District. She and her husband, Alvin, had moved to the area in 1972 from Virginia. and they built their lives here.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
At the time of the shooting, they had two adult children, 21-year-old Chris and 19-year-old Alex. Nancy had dedicated the last 19 years of her life to the children of Killeen, Texas. Her colleague, 55-year-old Ruth Pujol, would die right alongside Nancy. Ruth had grown up in Missouri, and in 1957, she married the love of her life, a military man named Skip.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Because of her husband's military status, Ruth spent a lot of her younger years traveling the world. But in 1976, they settled down in Killeen and Ruth took a position as the school's district chapter one pack coordinator. And she was a member of the Aggie Moms. Ruth left behind her husband, two daughters, Kathy and Janine, and a son named Mark.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
It's also about the victims who lost their lives, the survivors, and the aftermath of this terrible tragedy. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
both Nancy and Ruth would die right there on the Luby's floor next to their friends. And in that same burst of gunfire, a bullet also hit a man hiding under a table directly next to them. We weren't able to find out exactly who this man was, but upon getting shot, He turned to the surviving teachers next to him and whispered, Don't let me die. God, don't let me die.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
Sadly, he would be one of the murder victims.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
It's been suspected that the man who was shot at the table next to the teachers was 48-year-old Jimmy Carruthers. Jimmy grew up in Austin, Texas, and from a young age, he knew he wanted to help people. So, at 22 years old, he had started working as a contract specialist for the Department of Human Services. He worked there for the last 26 years.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
He had also worked with Child Protective Services and dedicated his life to make sure the kids in his community were safe. Sadly, Jimmy didn't even live in Killeen. He was just visiting from Austin for work and decided to stop into Luby's for a bite to eat. Jimmy left behind his wife, Carol, and two daughters, Karen and Sharla.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
From there, the gunman turned towards 30 year old Sylvia King. Sylvia was actually dining alone at Luby's that day. She owned a salon in town called Sylvia's Lime Tree Hair Fashions. And on this day, she was simply on her lunch break. Sadly, shortly before the crash, Sylvia was just finishing up her meal. She had to be back at the salon by 1 p.m. to see her next client.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 182 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Shooting (Pt. 2)
but she would never make it back. Sylvia had been born in Germany, but she and her family came to America when she was just a child. They had been living in Killeen since 1977, and they loved their community. Sylvia had spent the last two years of her life growing her small business, and things had finally started to pay off.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nach dem Ausflug wurde Kenneth vollzeit an seinem Vaters Konkret-Business gearbeitet. Er liebte nicht den Job, aber er liebte den Geld, den es mitgebracht hat. Nun, es war auch an dieser Zeit, als seine Mutter Addie ihm ein neues Motorrad geschenkt hat. und seine Klassenleute sagten, dass sie ihn auf den Backcountry-Rädern des Blackland Prairies sehen würden.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und jetzt, als er nicht in der Schule war und Geld selbst verdient hatte, hatte er ein bisschen mehr Freiheit. Kenneth hat angefangen, Alkohol zu trinken und mehr Zeit mit seinem Bruder Lonnie zu verbringen, was zum Ende ein Rezept für einen Desaster sein würde. Für Kenneths gesamte Leben hat er sich auf seinen älteren Bruder angeschaut.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und manche haben sogar gesagt, dass Lonnies Jugendlosigkeit ihn inspirierte. Nun, es gibt keine Wahrheit, ob das nächste Teil wahr ist, oder ob Kenneth nur Loni beeindrucken wollte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber im Sommer 1964, als Kenneth 18 Jahre alt war, brachte er seinem Bruder, dass er einmal einen Klassenlehrer verabschiedet hatte, was nicht sehr weitgehend klingt, je nachdem, welche Taten er später verurteilen würde.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Once Kenneth dropped out of school, he would spend nearly the entire year of 1964 robbing businesses around their area. But it would finally catch up to him. Now, we weren't able to figure out how the police linked him to these robberies, but in late January of 1965, they finally had enough evidence to place him under arrest. And he was wanted in three different counties.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
On January 22nd, Kenneth was convicted of eight counts of burglary in Bell County. Dann wurde er am 29. Januar von zwei Verbrechungen in Falls County verurteilt. Und am 3. Februar wurde er von vier Verbrechungen in Milam County verurteilt. Insgesamt wurde Kenneth von 14 Verbrechungen in Verbrechung verurteilt und wurde schließlich 52 Jahre im Gefängnis verurteilt. Am 10.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
März 1965 wurde Kenneth von der Ferguson-Unit des Texas Department of Criminal Justice vertreten.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Roy war ein beeindruckender junger Mann. Er hatte eine niedrige IQ. Er lebte mit seiner Mutter in Marlin und er war bekannt, als ein ruhiger Junge, der nie in Probleme kam. Kenneth, der direkt aus dem Gefängnis war, wusste, dass er ein leichtes Ziel sein würde. Und er war es. Für Roys ganze Leben war er ein Art Unterhund. Jemand, dem die Leute nicht aufmerksam waren.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
So when Kenneth took an interest in becoming friends, Roy thought it would be cool to be hanging out with someone who took risks and got into trouble. According to Texas Monthly, Roy was absolutely mesmerized by Kenneth's wild stories of sadistic sex, something he referred to as sexcapades.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
In einem Fall, während die beiden am Haus Roy's Mütter waren, begann Kenneth die Geschichte, wie er diese Frau verabschiedet hat. Er hat Roy erzählt, dass er die Frau auf den Boden gepinnt hat und eine große Tüte deep heat in ihre Vagina gespürt hat. Deep heat ist im Grunde eine topische Creme, die man auf der Haut verwendet, um Muskelschmerzen zu lösen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Es sollte definitiv nicht auf jemanden privaten Teilen oder in jemanden Vagina gehen. Wenn diese Geschichte wahr war, dann wäre diese Frau klar in unglaublich viel Schmerz. Aber als Kenneth die Geschichte erzählte, war er begeistert. Er liebte es klar, Frauen zu töten. Er hat auch Roy über viele andere Rape erzählt, die er verurteilt hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber an diesem Punkt wurde er nicht von Rape verurteilt, also gibt es keinen echten Rekord davon, aber er liebte es, darüber zu sprachen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
So, if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here... Share us on your Instagram story. Shout us out on X. Post one of our shows on your Facebook. And let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
But let's get back to the story.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Eher die Nacht, war 16-jähriger Luis Sullivan bereit für eine Abendzeit mit seinem Freund, 17-jährigem Robert Brand, und seinem Cousin, 15-jährigem Marcus Dunham, der aus Kalifornien besucht war. Es war ein typischer heißer Sommerabend in der kleinen Texas-Town von Everman. Und die drei Jüngeren waren auf die nächste Nacht aufgeregt. Nun, in erster Linie war es ein Doppelabend.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Luises Freund Ronda war zu Hause mit Marcus, aber am letzten Moment wurde sie abgeholt. A decision that likely saved her life. But even without Rhonda, the three teens were determined to have a fun night out. Now, at around 6.30 that night, Robert and Marcus got into the 1955 Ford Fairlane and made their way over to Luisa's house to pick her up. From there, they drove to a drive-in movie.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
But once it was over, they noticed they still had a little time to kill before curfew. So that's when they decided to drive to the secluded baseball field next to the high school. This was something teenagers did around Everman. It was the type of town where everyone knew each other. It was a small, rural community that consisted of honest, working class people.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
And these kids had their whole lives ahead of them. Louise war bereit, ihr Juniorenjahr an Evermann High School zu starten. Sie arbeitete wirklich hart, um gute Gräts zu bekommen. Sie spielte Basketball und arbeitete im Krankenhaus der 1. Baptistischen Kirche. Ein paar Monate vor dieser Nacht, im Juni 1966, hatte Louise Robert Brand von der nahen Stadt von Alvarado getroffen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Im Sommer spielten die beiden viel Zeit zusammen. Sie wurden von ihren Verliebten als wirklich gute Kinder beschrieben. Robert Brandt war hübsch, ausländisch und liebte absolut Musik.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er hat verschiedene seltsame Jobs gearbeitet, um genug Geld zu verdienen, um eine Gitarre zu kaufen, und nachdem er das gemacht hat, hat er mit einem Gruppe von Jungs zusammengebracht, die Teenage-Clubs in Alvarado gespielt haben. Für Markus Dunham waren er und sein älterer Cousin Robert sehr nahe. Markus liebte auch Musik und spielte die Drüsen. Als er mit Robert zusammengekommen ist,
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
The boys enjoyed playing their instruments and sometimes would go hunting in the woods. Marcus had big dreams of joining the military after high school and wanted to work as a machinist. Now, that summer, Marcus had traveled from California and had been spending time with his grandmother in Fort Worth. And that weekend he decided to make the trip to Everman to have a fun night.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
However, no one could have known that their innocent weekend would quickly turn bloody and violent. As they sat at the baseball fields, Luis, Robert und Marcus lachen und hatten gute Gespräche. An einem Punkt hat Luis sogar eine Maske aus ihrer Tasche herausgezogen und mit ihr den Namen auf dem Hinterglas geschrieben. Endlich sind sie aus dem Fahrzeug gegangen und haben den frischen Atem genossen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sie hätten alle bald nach Hause gehen müssen, und sie haben sich die letzten paar Minuten ihres Tages zusammengezockt. Die drei hatten keinen Grund, zu glauben, dass sie in Gefahr waren. Jedoch, bald genug, würden sie die Wege mit purem Schicksal überschreiten.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Rosebud, Texas ist eine kleine, rührende Farmingstadt in Falls County. Sie befindet sich zwischen den großen Städten von Austin und Waco. Am Anfang des 20. Jahrhunderts begannen viele Menschen, in Rosebud, Texas zu gehen, um bessere Möglichkeiten zu finden.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth hat mich angeschaut und gesagt, sie haben mich angeschaut. Ich werde sie töten. Wir haben keine Anwesenden. Ich werde sie entfernen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kennt für seine reiche schwarze Landfläche, kamen Familien hierher und bauten Land, damit sie Kotten und Gräne färben konnten, was in den 1920er-Jahren eine erfolgreiche Arbeit war. Damals war die Stadt voll mit Kotten-Ginsen, Kotten-Seed-Maschinen und der Aransas Pass-Railway. Aber dann kam die große Depression und die Stadt verletzte sich.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Warning! This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Viele Menschen mussten nach oben gehen und eine andere Wohnung finden. Aber für die Menschen, die da waren, fühlten sie eine tiefe Verbindung zu Rosebud, Texas. Das war eine Wohnung. Viele haben ihre Familien dort für Jahrhunderte gehalten. In Central Texas, Rosebud, war die Art der Gemeinschaft, in der jeder sich kennt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Während der Fahrt nach Hause nach Rosebud, hat Kenneth Roy gesagt, dass er seine Augen schlürft über das, was an der Nacht passiert ist. Wenn du jemandem erzählst, werden sie uns in die elektrische Schnauze legen, sagte er.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nachdem er ein bisschen Distanz zwischen ihnen und der Krimi-Szene gelegt hat, hat Kenneth auch einige Beweise aus dem Fenster gelegt, insbesondere die fehlenden Schellkasten und den gebrochenen Brunnen, den er benutzt hat, um Louise zu verletzen. Irgendwann während der Fahrt sind sie auch rausgekommen und haben ein kleines Loch in den Boden gelegt, wo sie Robert und Marcus' Karten verletzt haben.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Mit einer Bevölkerung, die nie mehr als 2.000 Besitzer waren, ging das Leben in Rosebud auf eine langsamere Art und Weise. Die Leute gingen zusammen an der Kirche jeden Sonntag, und Main Street war verbunden mit Familienunternehmen. Jemand, der in die Stadt eingegangen wurde, wurde mit einem großen Zeichen gegrüßt, das schrieb, Rosebud, wir nennen es Zuhause.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Jetzt haben sie es endlich zurück nach Rosebud gemacht und Kenneth hat die Nacht mit Roy in Roys Mütters Zuhause geblieben. Dann am nächsten Morgen, am Sonntag, August 7, 1966, wucherten Kenneth und Roy früh auf und nahmen den Dodge zu einer nahen Autowäsche.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Beide Männer haben den Innenraum und den Außenraum des Autos gescrubbt, um die Evidenz zu entfernen, die sie dem Verbrechen beizutragen könnte. Während ihrer Kleidung fand Kenneth eine lange braune Haare, die zu Louise gehörte. Siehst du das, Roy? Er sagte. Das ist das, was uns in die Gefängnis bringen könnte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Roy würde später sagen, dass er wirklich überrascht war, was die Nacht vorher passiert ist. Die Events haben einfach nur in seinem Kopf gespielt, und er war extrem paranoid. Aber Kenneth war genau das Gleiche. Er hatte keinen Wunsch darüber, was passiert ist. Ja, er war nervös, dass er getroffen wird. But the fact that he took the lives of three teenagers didn't even seem to phase him.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
In fact, that very next night, Kenneth already had another date lined up. Wenn Sie Mörder in Amerika lieben, Sie lieben Geheimnisse, Sie lieben echten Kram, Sie lieben Mördergeschichten und das Ungewohnte, dann habe ich ein neues Show für Sie. Es heißt The Conspiracy Files und es wird von mir, Colin Brown, von Mörder in Amerika und The Paranormal Files gehostet.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Auf The Conspiracy Files überwachen wir alles von bizarren Toden bis zu freaken Paranormal-Events. Pädophilie-Ringe, Regierungs-Korruption, Rituals-Sacrifice. Kein Thema ist auf diesem Show unabhängig. Alles, was wir über die Verschwörungstheorien reden, wird mit Fakten gespeichert.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Ich veröffentliche Reference-Daten mit jedem einzelnen Episode, den wir machen, damit ihr wisst, dass alles, worüber wir reden, veröffentlicht wurde und real ist. Es ist ein völlig anderer Art von Show, als alles andere, was ihr je gesehen habt über Verschwörungstheorien. anstatt ein paar Konjunkturen und Theorien.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Wir präsentieren euch Menschen mit Fakten, erzählen euch die Geschichte, gehen euch durch die Geschichte, so detailliert wie wir es mit Mörder in Amerika tun. Und dann lassen wir den Zuhörer entscheiden, was sie denken. Jedenfalls sollten Sie es definitiv hören. Es heißt The Conspiracy Files. Die Links sind in der Beschreibung dieses Shows.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und Sie können es auf Apple Podcasts, Spotify oder wo auch immer Sie Ihre Podcasts bekommen. Und jetzt gehen wir zurück zu unserer Geschichte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und wenn du durch die Stadt gedreht wärst, würdest du sehen, dass fast jeder einen Rosebusch in ihrem Vordergrund hatte. Es war fast ein Zeichen, dass wir eins sind hier. Wir stecken zusammen. Wir schauen uns einander an. Aber unfassbar, würde Rosebuds Reputation für immer von einem ehemaligen Besitzer, der in diesem Bereich gewachsen ist, verblüfft werden. Und sein Name war Kenneth Allen McDuff.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Als die Behörden auf die Krimi-Szene zurückgingen, sagte Tarrant County Sheriff Lon Evans später, dass es wie eine Exekution aussah, was nicht viel Sinn machte. Diese drei Teenager waren gute Kinder. Sie hatten keine Feinde. Also wer hätte das zu ihnen getan?
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Während sie versucht haben, es herauszufinden, hat ein anderer Offizier seinen Weg zu Roberts Zuhause gemacht, um seiner Familie die schreckliche Nachricht zu erzählen. Hier ist Roberts Schwester Fran, die sich an diesen Moment erinnert.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Worte wurden schnell in der Stadt verbreitet, dass diese beiden Jünger verurteilt worden sind, exekutierter Art, in den Trunk ihres eigenen Autos. Bob Schieffer, ein Reporter auf der Krimiszene an dem Tag, sagte später dem echten Krimi-Reporter Robert Riggs, Es hat wirklich Leute verärgert. Es hat die Gemeinschaft wirklich verärgert.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Ich erinnere mich noch daran, weil ich glaube, es war das Schlimmste, was ich jemals gesehen habe. Ich sah diese Körper. Und wenn du auf der Polizeiführung bist, siehst du viele Töte, aber ich habe nie etwas gesehen, das der Ruhe des Macduffs ausmacht. Und ich hoffe, dass ich es nie wieder sehe. Diese Mörder zerstörten schnell den Sinn der Sicherheit dieser Stadt.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und noch mehr bedrohlich war, dass Louise Sullivan noch nicht weg war. Nach der Erfindung von Robert und Marcus kam die ganze Stadt zusammen, um die 16-jährige Mädchen zu finden, insbesondere 250 Volunteure.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nach seinem Vertrauen begannen die Bewerber, Kenneth Macduff zu suchen. Aber in der Zwischenzeit brauchten sie Roys Hilfe, um Louise zu beurteilen. Bis dahin sah es so aus, als ob sie überall nachgefragt hätten. Sie hatten sogar Dive-Teams und Helikopter, die über die Oberfläche fliegen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber als sie Roy in die Gegend gebracht haben, hatte er eine schwierige Zeit, sich daran zu erinnern, wo sie ihn genommen haben. However, he did remember a sign that he kept seeing along the drive. He said it read Burleson. Eventually, authorities asked Roy to draw what he remembered about the location. And surprisingly, this seemed to have worked.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
When Roy handed them the drawing, the authorities decided to start looking in the northern area of Johnson County near the small town of Egan. Roy was taken to the location and he immediately recognized it. He ended up jumping over the fence and told the search team, this looks like it.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber auch nach seinem Verabschiedungskampf hat Kenneth MacDuff keine Enttäuschung gesehen. In Wahrheit hat er sich eher über die Schlagzeilen in seinem Auto überrascht, als über die Mörder. Nun, wie wir schon erwähnten, hat Kenneths Angehöriger, Roy Dale Green, sofort zu allem, was geschehen ist, verabschiedet. Aber Kenneth war nicht seine Vorhersage.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Bob Schieffer würde später sagen, Was interessant an diesen beiden war, war, wie völlig anders sie waren. Macduff wollte niemandem über irgendwas erzählen. Er würde dir keine Details geben. Er würde nicht sogar erinnern, dass er da war. Green, auf der anderen Seite, konnte es nicht einhalten. Er war derjenige, der sich leicht verletzt hatte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er war der Junge in der Hochschule, der, wenn alle anderen etwas machen wollten, ging. Es sah nie zu sein, dass es seine Idee war. Und offensichtlich war er völlig traurig von Macduff. Aber mit Roy's Verzeihung hatten die Behörden alles, was sie brauchten. Am 9. August 1966 war Kenneth Macduff zurück im Gefängnis für die brutalen Mörder von Robert, Marcus und Luis.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und wenn Sie sich erinnern, war er tatsächlich bereits im Gefängnis für die Mörder, die er 1964 verurteilt hat. Also, nach seinem Angriff, hat das Staat Texas sein Gefängnis überwiesen. Wieder einmal konnte Polizist Bob Sullivan die Polizistinnen und Polizisten während ihres Transfers von Kenneth Macduff nach Fort Worth unterstützen. Und hier ist, was er Robert Riggs gesagt hat.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth McDuff wurde bei der Huntsville-Unit bei der Texas Department of Criminal Justice gehalten. Aber als er vor dem Trial erwartete, hat er niemandem über die Mörder gesprochen. McDuff war wütend, dass er im Gefängnis war. Der Sheriff sagte, dass er den Tag nach seinem Anruf sogar bei McDuffs Gefängniszelle ging und an ihn schrie. Geh' in die Hölle!
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Nun, interessanterweise, hat sich in dieser Zeit eine große Tragödie auf den Staat Texas getroffen. Es war die University of Texas at Austin Mass-Shoot, eine Geschichte, die wir in Episoden 94 und 95 von Mord in Amerika besprochen haben. Das Schutzen geschah ca. eine Woche bevor die Broomstick-Mörder.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und überraschend, während er im Gefängnis war, hat Kenneth McDuff einen Kommentar gemacht, wie der Schütze Charles Whitman verrückt war.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber ich sagte, hör einfach nicht zu. Die Jury, die neun Männer und drei Frauen beteiligt war, hörte emotionale Geschichten von Robert Brands Vater und Louis Sullivans Mutter. Jedoch wollte jeder von Roy Greene hören. Am 9. November 1966 erhielt Roy den Stand und berichtete die Events, die am 6. August stattfanden. Roy war offensichtlich erschrocken auf dem Stand.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Seine Sprache war manchmal unhörbar und er schlug mit Nervosität. Als die Verteidigung ihn gefragt hat, warum er nicht nur in Kenneths Dodge fährt, anstatt ihn zu folgen, antwortete er, Ich, ich, ich weiß es nicht. Jeder in der Stadthalle konnte sehen, dass Roy Angst hatte. Es war auch klar, dass er eine sehr niedrige IQ hatte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber zu jeder Überraschung, hat jemand anderes den Stand auf November 13. Kenneth McDuff. Er hat verurteilt, dass er an der Nacht der Mörder in einem gebrannten Gebäude in Everman ausgeliefert wurde. Er hat Roy als den wütenden Blödsinn beschrieben, der die Mörder geplant hatte. Er hat gesagt, Roy war sehr wütend, weil er keine Beziehung hatte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Er wollte, dass ich irgendwo warten würde, während er das Auto benutzt hat. Wir haben darüber gesprochen. Er war wirklich wütend. Ich war nur müde und wollte nach Hause und nach Bett gehen. Ich saß einfach neben einem Wallen und schlief. Nun, als für den Brunnenstiel, sagte Kenneth, dass Roy es gerne mitnehmen würde, weil er in der Vergangenheit Probleme mit Verbrechern hatte.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Laut Kenneth war der Brunnenstiel Roys gewöhnliche Waffe für Selbstverdienung.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
As for Roy Dale Green, he also pleaded guilty to the murders, but he was only sentenced to 25 years in prison, since it was clear he was not the mastermind. Following this, Roy was taken to the Tarrant County Jail, where he really struggled. Because he was labeled a snitch, other prisoners tormented him. After several years of this, he was actually transferred to the Rusk State Mental Hospital.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Roy hatte gesagt, dass er faszinierend war und Stimmen hörte. Und er würde letztendlich am Rusk-Stadt-Hospital bleiben, bis er in 1979 verurteilt wurde. Roy Del Green hat nur 13 Jahre für seine Rolle in den Broomstick-Mördern gesorgt. Laut einem Artikel in Texas Monthly, das 1992 veröffentlicht wurde, nachdem er veröffentlicht wurde, ging Roy zurück zu seiner Heimatstadt Marlin, Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Sheriff Larry Pamplin stated, he stays out at the old family home and spends most of the day in his sister's beer joint, the town door. To say he's messed up is a real understatement.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Hey, everybody. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Murder in America. This is a story that Courtney suggested that I had never heard, but upon researching this whole thing, I mean, wow, this whole story is just unbelievable. And next week, the details that we're going to share with you are truly mind-blowing and just incomprehensible.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
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Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Wenn ihr die Ads nicht möchtet, dann ist Patreon definitiv eine gute Wahl für euch. Ihr könnt auch auf höhere Töne signen, um Bonus-Initiativen zu bekommen, wenn ihr wirklich unterstützen möchtet. Courtney und ich kreieren volle Länge Bonus-Episode des Shows.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Wenn du noch nicht eingeladen hast, gibt es eine Bibliothek von über 100 dieser Bonus-Episode, die du sofort hören kannst, wenn du ein Patron wirst. Und danke an alle, die uns bereits auf Patreon eingeladen haben. Wir haben eine unglaubliche, unglaubliche Gemeinschaft da. Sei sicher, uns auf Instagram zu folgen, zu sehen, Fotos von jedem einzelnen Fall, den wir hier auf dem Show beobachten.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
And also don't forget to leave us a good review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcasts. Those reviews really help and we love reading them. But anyways, y'all, thank you so much for listening this week. We do hope you enjoyed. And yeah, have a great weekend and I'll see y'all in the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
People in town would later say that it was obvious the McDuff family was very well off. They always had plenty of money to buy new things, and they were always wearing fresh new clothing. On paper, they appeared to be the perfect all-American family. They worked hard for their money, they had no criminal records, and they regularly attended the Assembly of God church.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
But anyone who really got to know the family immediately noticed that something was off about them. Some described them as odd and standoffish. According to neighbors of the McDuff family, Addie, the matriarch, ran the show.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth und sein älterer Bruder Lonnie waren große Troublemaker in Rosebud. In den frühen 1950ern hat Lonnie sich als Ruff-Tuff Lonnie McDuff genannt. Jedoch hatte er einen gewissen Sprachunfall und als er sich mit seinem Namen genannt hat, wurde er als Wuff-Tuff-Wonnie McDuff genannt. Während er an der Rosebud High School war, hat Lonnie eine Knife auf den Schulprinzip D.L.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Mayo gedrückt und in der Rückkehr hat der Prinzip ihn auf den Stuhl gedrückt. Nun, D.L. Mayo war ein sehr striktes Prinzip. Er war ein Weltkriegs-Veteran, der nichts gemacht hat. In Wahrheit wurde er oft als Iron Man genannt. Nun, als Lonnie den Knopf an ihm aufgenommen hat, musste D.L. Mayo nach Hause und berichten, was passiert ist.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Aber natürlich blamierte Addie den Prinzip, trotz dessen, dass ihr Sohn die Waffe holen musste. Egal, was jemand gesagt hat, Lonnie und Kenneth waren verletzt. Wenn jemand in der Schule versuchte, die Jungs verurteilt oder verurteilt zu lassen, war Addy schnell bereit, sich aufzunehmen und jedem ein Hörsaal zu geben. Und bald beginnte Kenneth, in den Fußstrichen seines Verletztenbruders zu folgen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Rosebud High School Principal D.L. Mayo would later say that Kenneth did not get along with students, teachers or anyone. He would lie, steal and destroy property of others. He was in some form of trouble every few days. He had trouble in the community for reckless driving and stealing.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
His family would seldom believe he did anything wrong and were always angry with school officials and local police for punishing him. Dieser junge Mann hatte den ganzen Welt angestrengt, seitdem er in der vierten oder fünften Klasse war. Seine Mutter war neurotisch und unbedeutend. Doch der Vater und die Mutter haben gearbeitet, Kenneth mit all seinen Bedürfnissen zu unterstützen.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth hatte die normalen Gefühle, so viel wie ein normaler Junge in dieser Gemeinschaft.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Kenneth war ihr goldenes Kind, das mit allem weggegangen ist. Laut einem Familienmitglied hat Kenneth sogar mit seinem jüngsten Sohn für Jahre weggegangen. J.A. und Addie haben sich einfach nur mit einem blinden Auge auf das, was Kenneth gemacht hat, gewechselt. Im Grunde genommen waren sie wirklich stolz auf ihn.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Einen Sommer lang hat Kenneth die Bäume für ihre älteren Nachbarn gestartet und Addie hat als ob er den Mond geschlagen hätte. Sie hat gehofft, dass Kenneth von allen geliebt wurde und dass er so ein armer Arbeiter war. Aber natürlich hat niemand von ihr geglaubt. Den Leuten, die mit Kenneth auf den Weg gefahren sind, wussten sie, dass es etwas Dunkeles in ihm gab.
Murder In America
EP. 194: TEXAS - The BROOMSTICK MURDERS: Serial Killer Kenneth McDuff’s Dark Beginning
Und diese Dunkelheit sah sich nur schlimmer aus, als er älter wurde.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Soon after the divorce, Kathy prided herself in being an important member of the feminist movement and for becoming a modern, self-reliant woman. Her obituary described her as, "...at once bold, colorful, simple, direct, and easy. A quintessentially modern California individual, living life on her own terms and loving her life with many friends and extended family."
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
now eventually her daughter would grow and move out she left home to attend georgetown and from there miss kathy had a desire to help other young artists in fact she often opened her doors to actors writers singers and directors welcoming them to rent her rooms and live in a supportive creative environment with a hollywood mom and if you're trying to break into hollywood you need a hollywood mom
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
This kind of supportive environment is what drew Johnny Lewis to the writer's villa. After speaking with Miss Kathy, he was promptly offered one of the suites, known as the Red Room. But rent wasn't cheap, hovering anywhere between $1650 and $3,000 a month for one bedroom with a private bathroom, sitting room, and access to the rest of the home.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
For perspective, at the time, the average rent for a two-bedroom apartment in LA was about $1,200. Yet, the writer's villa offered things nowhere else seemed to. For Johnny and many others, that was priceless. So, he moved in. And at first, it seemed to be working out for him. His friend Bo Garrett told LA Mag, I remember all the nice things he said about Miss Kathy.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But interestingly, he wouldn't stay very long. He would end up moving later that year, not because of any disagreements or unhappiness. He left because he discovered that his girlfriend was pregnant.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
late 2010 johnny traveled to hagerstown maryland a historic town on the panhandle of virginia right near the border of west virginia he was there to star in a horror movie directed by eduardo sanchez the same guy who wrote directed and edited the wildly popular and groundbreaking movie the blair witch project in 1999 the movie titled lovely molly revolves around johnny's wife
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
played by Gretchen Lodge, who's corrupted by a demon and tormented by the memory of an assault committed against her when she was a child. The movie is psychologically twisted, dark, and truly fits the label of a horror film. Filming took place over 21 days, during which time the crew grew incredibly close.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Johnny and Gretchen seemed to have even begun dating during this time or soon after filming wrapped. which makes sense when you look at the scenes they were filming. When you have a twisted horror film about lovers, every scene is juxtaposed with the next.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It ends up being a mix of loving, sensual, and connected scenes, clashing against scary, vulnerable, and intense scenes where actors are forced to truly bear it all, both emotionally and physically. In many scenes, Gretchen, who had never acted in a feature-length film before, had to be naked, covered in blood, screaming, and acting as though she was possessed.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In one scene, she had to bite off Johnny's lip. And, spoiler alert, in the end, Johnny's character is brutally killed with a blow to the head.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program, so definitely If you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, post one of our shows on your Facebook, and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all. But let's get back to the story. If Johnny was tested for a concussion, which is just a mild form of a traumatic brain injury, doctors likely would have looked at his eye movement, reflexes, and memory recall to diagnose him.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
If all of these appeared normal, doctors could have determined that he didn't have any noticeable or impactful head injury. According to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Strokes, some traumatic brain injuries are primary, meaning that the damage is immediate and noticeable.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Others can be secondary, which means they occur over the course of hours, days, or weeks after the initial impact. Those who knew Johnny suggest that he was suffering from a secondary traumatic brain injury. And when you look at the months that immediately followed the crash, it's easy to see why.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In December of 2011, two months after the crash, Johnny was attending an acting class that he frequented. According to his close friend, Jonathan Tucker, Johnny was using a strange British accent for the entirety of the class. His friend later told LA Mag, I asked him about it because I was confused, but he shrugged it off.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Jonathan had known him for several years, and according to him, this kind of behavior was incredibly unusual.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
From the very beginning, it seems that Johnny Lewis was destined for the spotlight. Born Jonathan Kendrick Lewis in the San Fernando Valley on October 29, 1983, he was the son of Devona and Michael Lewis, who had both moved to Los Angeles to follow their own dreams. His father, Michael, had journeyed to the City of Angels to work as a playwright, screenwriter, and counselor.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
After 27 years of displaying no violence whatsoever and committing no crimes, Johnny was suddenly behind bars after what his family and friends described as an uncharacteristically violent act. Three days later, he allegedly turned that violence on himself by attempting to jump from the second story level at the jail.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
This, along with his repeated attempts to bash his head against the concrete wall of his cell, resulted in him being transferred to a psychiatric ward on a 72-hour hold. In California, this is referred to as a 5150. Now, when his 72 hours in the ward was up, his father bailed him out.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Once more, his parents brought him to their condo in Northridge to monitor him, but this time, things were undeniably worse. His older sister Anna told L.A. Mag, "...he looked like a wounded, broken animal." He repeatedly disabled the fuse box to the condo in order to prevent his parents from turning the lights on and refused to let anyone touch him or get near him.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
For a moment, just imagine that. Less than a year prior, Johnny had been sitting in a cafe in Berlin working on a novel he wanted to write. Smiling and well-groomed, he made this video for a loved one.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
I don't know about you guys, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money too. After years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up from crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks that actually cost more in the long run and switched to Mint Mobile.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It's crazy how much these big carriers like to charge you for every little thing. It's like clockwork. When it's time to pay my wireless bill, I'm like, oh my god. God, this is crazy you're charging me for this and that, but not with Mint Mobile.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
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Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all of your existing contacts. So it's incredibly easy and painless to switch over. And I think it's about time to ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for just 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash america. That's mintmobile.com slash america. Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5GB plan required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. And now, let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Devona, who had grown up on a farm in a town of just 60 people in Alberta, Canada, was an English and drama teacher. Like thousands of dreamers before them, they settled down and bought a house in what locals refer to as the Valley, putting them a stone's throw away from the glitz and glamour of the world-famous studios.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
So, sure, Johnny was out of jail twice, but that didn't stop the court dates from coming, nor from his mental health deteriorating even more. In May, his friend Jonathan Tucker picked him up to take him to one of his court hearings. Remember, this is the same friend that had noticed Johnny speaking in a strange accent, months prior in their acting class.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Within seconds of having Johnny in his car, it was clear how much worse things had gotten. He told LA Mag, It was another person completely. He had a look I have only seen with disturbed veterans of war. His memory was scattered. He vacillated between lucid conversation and incoherence. It was clear to his family, friends, and professionals that Johnny needed help.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But of course, there was another thing that drew them to Los Angeles, their ties to Scientology. But we'll get into that a little bit later.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
On May 17, 2012, Johnny's probation officer wrote as follows in his official report, The defendant suffers from some form of chemical dependency, mental health issue, and a lack of permanent housing. Given this, Lewis will continue to be a threat to any community he may reside. And yet, little was done.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
This brings us to one of the most challenging parts of this story, one that has received a lot of attention in the media. Johnny's parents were Scientologists. Not just Scientologists, though. They were top-level Scientologists. They were what is referred to as Operating Thetan Level 8, which is the highest level of spiritual freedom in the Scientology Church.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Apparently, this level can only be acquired by taking a trip on the Freewinds, a Scientology cruise ship. Now, there have been some serious claims of abuse and kidnapping taking place on the Freewind, but we'll save that for a Conspiracy Files episode.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
However, it's widely known that Scientology as a religion denounces psychiatric problems and disapproves of mental health and medication being used at all. To people living a secular life, it's probably hard to imagine how anyone could be manipulated into thinking that way. However, a look at the Scientology website shows what kind of tactics are being used to sway their members.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Consider this section, straight from their website under a page labeled, Why is Scientology Opposed to Psychiatric Abuses? The Scientology objection to psychiatry does not stem from any desire to deny the insane treatment. Rather, the Church objects to the mistreatment of the insane, which is a psychohistorical hallmark.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Nor do Scientologists believe people should be stigmatized with labels and treated with cures that have no basis in science and are brutal in the extreme. Through its long and tragic history, psychiatry has invented numerous cures which eventually proved destructive in the extreme. In the 18th and 19th centuries, mentally troubled patients were literally subjected to torture devices.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Next, it was ice baths and insulin shock.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
then electroconvulsive therapy that caused broken teeth and bones as well as loss of memory and regression into comatose states next it was prefrontal lobotomies with an ice pick through the eye socket today it is drugs it is now routine psychiatric practice to label and stigmatize youth with wholesale diagnosis of mental disorders it is a staggeringly profitable business
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
But while psychiatrists rake in billions, society receives a new generation of lifelong drug addicts and thus still more customers for psychotropic drugs. Today, the market of antidepressants has likewise reached nightmarish proportions, and the scenario becomes even more disturbing when one considers the explosively violent episodes such drugs precipitate.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Moreover, there is categorically no evidence that diseases such drugs claim to treat even exist, which is to say, it's all an elaborate and deadly hoax. This is not Scientology belief or opinion. This is fact, and this is why Scientologists oppose psychiatric abuse.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Browen, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events...
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
pedophile rings government corruption ritual sacrifice no topic is untouched on this show everything that we talk about on the conspiracy files is backed up with fact i release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real it's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Because of the crowding at the Twin Towers Correctional Facility, Johnny only served a total of six weeks before he was released on September 21st, 2012. As soon as he got out, he went to Atwater Village to stay at the Los Feliz Hotel. Two days later, on September 23rd, 2012, Johnny's father picked him up.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Little's known about what Johnny's disposition was on that day, but he apparently went shopping for new clothes with his dad and was brought back to the Valley so he could pick up his motorcycle. which he had left at his parents' condo in Northridge.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Johnny was evidently reluctant to go back to Ridgeview, in spite of his parents' insistence, but it was clear that he needed a place to stay at, and that's where the writer's villa came back into the picture. Johnny apparently asked his father if he could call Miss Kathy and see if there was a spot for him there. Naturally, she agreed and quickly got his old room ready for his arrival.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The writer's villa was a place for creatives to lick their wounds and heal their souls, and it apparently seemed like the perfect place to help Johnny get back on his feet. To Miss Kathy, who had no idea he had been in prison or was struggling with his mental health, it seemed like the return of a beloved guest and friend.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now, Jonathan Tucker missed the call and only heard the voicemail about an hour after Johnny left it. The two had been close friends for quite some time. Just a few years prior, Johnny had stayed with Tucker in New York. Tucker claimed that he was a perfect guest.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
When he woke up in the morning, his entire apartment would be clean and Johnny would already be out the door, exploring the neighborhood and bringing back bagels for breakfast. He spent the whole trip trying out different restaurants, going to museums, and writing in the same bars that the Beatniks did in the 50s and 60s. But by 2012, Jonathan decided he couldn't risk letting Johnny stay with him.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Jonathan's eyes well with tears as he says it, as he struggles to look at the camera, instead looking down and out of frame. It's clear it's a decision that he struggled with, but he states that it isn't one he regretted.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The three siblings were tight-knit from a young age. Old family videos taken from the bulky camcorders of the 80s show snapshots of their seemingly idyllic childhood. Johnny's hair is so blonde that it's almost white. His eyes are bright blue and always crinkled from the toothless grin on his face. There are videos of him singing his ABCs, hugging and dancing with his sister.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Videos of him giggling beside her, both of them happily twirling in fairy costumes. Videos of him teetering around the yard barefoot and swinging on the swing set with a lack of grace that only a toddler can make cute.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It only took minutes for LAPD to arrive at the writer's villa where Dan had seen Johnny flee after his brutal and unprovoked attack. But in those few minutes, something horrible had happened. Police arrived to find Johnny Lewis laying in a pool of his own blood in the driveway of the writer's villa. By 10.57 a.m., he was pronounced dead.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
He was discovered lying face up, his eyes towards the blue sky, and the back of his head smashed against the concrete. In the photos that we'll link on our Patreon, you can see the spatter of the impact and the sheer amount that he bled.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
His autopsy report reads, "...it appears that the decedent jumped over the wrought iron railing at the top of the terrace to drop to the driveway below during an attempt to flee the location." During this jump, the decedent lost his balance and landed on the driveway head first. A blood splatter is noted on the driveway below the railing.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The momentum caused him to slide across the driveway where he came to rest along the outside edge of the driveway. In other words, according to the deputy medical examiner, Johnny died in an accidental fall while he was attempting to flee the scene of multiple crimes that he committed.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
They stated that there was no definitive evidence that the fall was intentional, and no evidence that he had been pushed. He died of multiple traumatic injuries, including hemorrhagic fractures of the skull and fractures of his spine. On his body, clear fingernail marks were visible, and it seemed that he had suffered from partial strangulation.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Now, this next part involves animal cruelty, but in the shower in the adjoining bathroom, over the shattered pieces of the broken mirror, there was another horrific discovery awaiting law enforcement. In the shower was the body of Miss Kathy's beloved gray and white cat. He had been beaten and dismembered by Johnny.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The brutality and senselessness of the scene is something that still haunts everyone who knows this case.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
this day there are several sources articles and biographies about johnny that state he was on drugs at the time of the incident many of these statements seem to stem from the reports about johnny being in a rehab facility ridgeview just prior to his death but the narrative about johnny being addicted to drugs in general isn't as clear-cut as the media has suggested his father and friends have stated that at ridgeview johnny needed to state that he had an addiction in addition to his mental health problems in order to be admitted
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
At first, he tried to state that he had a marijuana addiction. He wrote to his friends in an email. On a side note, we're pleading rehab to avoid trial. Addicted to marijuana, what a trip. But upon arrival at Ridgeview, his claim that he was addicted to marijuana didn't fly with staff. Instead, he started to claim that he was an alcoholic.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
According to many of Johnny's friends, he had dabbled with drugs in the past, but he wasn't an active user or ever struggling with addiction. Jonathan Tucker told LA Mag that Johnny was the type to stay up late playing chess and drinking tea, ever to party. He stated, "...that's what made Johnny special." No drugs, no alcohol, just poetry and philosophy.
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EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Tim Woodhead, a fellow inmate that became friends with Johnny at Twin Towers Correctional Facility, also commented on Johnny's drug use, stating, I did a lot of drug seeking at that place. There were a lot of opportunities that he turned down multiple times. At the time of his death, there were no drugs or alcohol in Johnny's system.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
He was tested for synthetics, PCP, marijuana, ecstasy, just about every drug you can possibly imagine. And every single one came back negative.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In the wake of Miss Kathy's loss, several of her former Hollywood children have tried to carry on her spirit with them, promoting arts programs and encouraging youth to follow their dreams.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
So in honor of Miss Kathy and her mission to the arts, we will be making a donation to Inner City Arts, an organization dedicated to engaging underprivileged youth in the creative process of various art forms to shape a more confident and collaborative society.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Yeah, congratulations to you two from obviously both Courtney and I. Thank you for listening to our show. And we wish you the happiest marriage. Yeah, congratulations. Hey everybody, it's Colin. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. This story is one that I've wanted to tell for a very long time. I just could not believe that this happened.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
When I was younger, I watched Sons of Anarchy. It was my favorite show. I was absolutely obsessed with the show. In a weird twist, a lot of people still to this day tell me that I bear a slight resemblance to Jax. I think they're being very kind, but it's something that I'm told pretty frequently.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And when I first heard about Johnny, you know, having done these things, it was really, really shocking as someone that loved that show and essentially grew up with it. It's such a sad story all the way around. But if you enjoy these episodes and you want to get access to bonus episodes of Murder in America,
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
consider joining us on our patreon if you sign up for patreon you can get access instantly to a library of over a hundred episodes of murder in america that will never be posted on our main feed these are full-length episodes of the show edited just like every other episode that we post so if you love the show and you want to hear more stories consider joining us on patreon you can also get access to every single episode of the show early and ad free
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Just in case you don't like the advertisements and you want just a clean listening experience. I want to thank everybody who joined us on Patreon over the last few years. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover. Thank you all once again for listening this week. We appreciate you all so very much from the bottom of our hearts.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
From the time he was 18 well into his early 20s, Johnny lived in what was known in the industry as the Wilton Hilton, a five-bedroom craftsman house on North Wilton Place in Hollywood. In an interview with L.A. Mag, one of Johnny's roommates at the time, Doug Usher, stated, it was the frat row of young Hollywood.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In the 1970s and 80s, the Wilton Hilton was best known for being party central for the punk rock bands of the time. The influential band The Screamers called it home for several years, inviting groups like Blondie and The Ramones over for wild multi-day parties.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It seems that by the 90s and early 2000s, when Johnny called it home, it had calmed down slightly, but was still a gathering place for parties and up-and-coming artists to let off some steam. Doug Usher reported to LA Mag that he and Johnny lived in the home with actors Adam Brody, Bret Harrison, and Ashley Simpson, as they were all working their way towards fame.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
This kind of environment, surrounded by other artists, is one that Johnny seems to have chased for the rest of his life. Around 2005, Johnny was a frequent face at local acoustic nights, where fledgling stars would gather to perform their music, writing, and poetry to a like-minded crowd.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Though Johnny loved acting and did it for nearly his entire life, it was poetry and writing that was his true passion, and it seems that his passion at one of these events is what caught Katy Perry's eye.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In September of 2006, Johnny hopped on a plane and left sunny Los Angeles for the fog-shrouded rainforests of Vancouver, Canada to film Alien vs. Predator, Requiem, which he had a starring role in. At that point, it was the most popular movie or television show he had ever been in.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Racking in 130 million dollars in the box office against a 40 million dollar budget Yet his biggest role was still yet to come and it came where he least expected it in February of 2008 a show called Sons of Anarchy began filming its very first season and no one had any idea at the time that the crime drama about an outlaw motorcycle gang would go on to become one of the most popular shows of the 2000s averaging anywhere from 2.2 to
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
to 4.6 million viewers per episode, and snagging Golden Globes along the way. Now, I do have to say, Sons of Anarchy is truly one of my favorite shows of all time, and in it, Johnny plays the role of Kip Halfsack Epps, a prospect in the motorcycle gang.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Essentially, he was the wannabe member tasked with all the jobs and obligations that none of the higher-ranking members wanted to take, kind of like a pledge in a fraternity. It's undeniable that Johnny nailed the role from the very beginning. His loyalty, naivete, and charm quickly made him a fan favorite. But the role was not a favorite of Johnny's.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
At the time, Sons of Anarchy was promoted as one of the darkest, most violent shows on TV. And indeed, looking back at it, the violence is pretty intense. There's a scene where a father is forced to watch his daughter burn to death. Dozens of violent stabbings, a school shooting, torture scenes, drowning scenes, rape scenes. There's even a scene where they murder a pedophile in cold blood.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
The show revolves around a violent gang, so clearly it's not for everyone. And that seemed to be the case for Johnny.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
I've given our chat a lot of thought over the past few days. I want to thank you for being honest. I respect your deep commitment to your creative process and honor your needs as an artist. I tried to look ahead to see what was in store for Half-Sack and I'm not sure I will be able to fulfill your creative needs. I'd hate to be having the same conversation with you at the end of Season 3.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
so I believe it's in everyone's best creative interests to say goodbye to Kip Halfsack Epps. As you requested, I found a cool heroic way for him to go out in 213. He dies in the service of Jackson the Club, saving Abel's life. It's a bloody and honorable death.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
In April of 2009, soon after wrapping his final scenes in Sons of Anarchy, Johnny was looking to find a home. And soon enough, he learned about the Writer's Villa, which is a beautiful home located at 3605 Lowry Road. And it's exactly what you picture when you think of a house in the most expensive neighborhood in LA.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
Leading up to it, there are palm and jacaranda trees lining the impossibly narrow mountain roads, hedges and intricate wrought iron fences that separate those winding streets from the multi-million dollar homes hiding in the hillsides. Now, the home itself is a 3,000 square foot mansion designed to look like an Italian villa. It sat high up on the street, looming above all of the other homes.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
It had steep stairs and a nearly vertical driveway leading up to the house. On the inside, it was beautiful yet cozy, the embodiment of warmth. The walls were painted in inviting shades of cream, yellow, and red. Tiles traced the inside of the home, and the huge windows not only overlooked a courtyard, but the breathtaking San Gabriel Mountains.
Murder In America
EP. 190: CALIFORNIA - Hollywood Celebrity Turned Ruthless Killer: The Tragic Tale of Johnny Lewis
And when Johnny saw this home for the first time, he wanted to live there. Not only was it exactly what he was looking for, but it was also in an area where other celebrities were located, and it seemed like a perfect match.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nun, hier müssen wir an ein paar juristische Themen konzentrieren, Themen, die wir in unserer Diskussion über Emily Pike übernehmen werden. Die Städte der Städte sind ständig, sie haben ihr eigenes Justizsystem und Teams von Rechtsanwälten, um ihre Städte zu schützen. Doch ihre Fähigkeit, Anzeichen zu beurteilen und Procedure zu beurteilen, ist bedingt bei kleinen Verletzungen.
Murder In America
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If a major crime like murder or kidnapping takes place on tribal lands, the FBI or the Bureau of Indian Affairs must step in to run the investigation. Then it's the US Attorney's Office that presses charges and handles the incarceration. If that sounds incredibly complicated, it's because it is. And as complicated as the pipeline of jurisdiction is, Der Grund dafür ist noch größer.
Murder In America
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Es war nicht bis 1995, dass die letzte residenzielle Schule in den Vereinigten Staaten geschlossen wurde. Residenzielle Schulen wurden von der Föderalen Regierung bezeichnet, um die Menschen in der anglo-christlichen Kultur zu ermöglichen. Die Kinder wurden nicht ermöglicht, ihre Zungen zu sprechen, ihre Religionen zu üben oder kulturelle Events zu feiern.
Murder In America
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Sie konnten nicht selbst sein und wurden gezwungen, jemand Neues zu werden. Das war eine hundertjährige Travestie, die nahezu die reichen und wunderschönen Kulturen verschiedener Städte in den Vereinigten Staaten und Kanada zerstört hat.
Murder In America
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Und das ist ein ganzes Schwert, das wir runtergehen können, besonders in Kanada, wo in manchen dieser Schulen heutzutage massiv Kinder-Gruppen sind, die noch nie berichtet wurden. Ich glaube, wir haben nur die Ecke des Eisbergs entdeckt, wenn es um das Verbrechen und das Verletzen, das in diesen Schulen verbreitet wurde.
Murder In America
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Und es ist wichtig zu wissen, dass das einer der vielen Gründe ist, warum die tribalen Nationen nicht exklusiv unter der Jurisdiktur des Staatsanwalts wollen. Die Unglaublichkeit und generationale Trauma laufen unglaublich tief.
Murder In America
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Und diese gesellschaftliche Souveränität schützt die nativen Menschen in vielen Fällen und erlaubt ihnen, ihre eigene Lande und Menschen zu polizieren, die in einer Art und Weise mit ihrer Kultur und Glauben verbunden sind. Es gibt ein großes Problem, wenn schwere Fälle an die US-Gewerkschaft überwiesen werden.
Murder In America
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Das US-Gewerkschaftsverwaltungsgericht hat im Jahr 2010 beurteilt, dass das US-Gewerkschaftsgericht zwei Drittel der sexuellen Verbrechen von tribalen Regierungen verurteilt hat. Zwei Drittel! Lassen Sie diese Zahl und Statistik für einen Moment sinken. Das bedeutet, dass für jede drei Frauen, Kinder oder Männer, die sexuell verbreitet wurden,
Murder In America
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Nur einer hätte die Möglichkeit, Gerechtigkeit zu erhalten. Und auch dann, ihre Möglichkeit, zu testifizieren und zu kämpfen, ist verringert durch die Unabhängigkeit von einigen tribalen Landen und Ressourcen.
Murder In America
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Meanwhile, Gary, the children's father, drove to the Shiprock Police Department and was finally able to file a missing persons report for his children. By then, it was 6.53pm. Ashlyn and Ian had already been missing for close to three hours, and her parents had been trying to get a response for just as long. But the family had worked fast. The community had worked fast.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
However, law enforcement did not. Now, at this point, a missing persons report had been filed for both children, but an Amber Alert had not been sent out, despite officers having a description of the red van from Grace Lynn. Every minute without this Amber Alert was crushing for the family.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
They felt that as the second slipped by, their chances of recovering Ian and Ashlyn were slipping away with it.
Murder In America
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Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow... Vielen Dank, Jungs. Aber lasst uns zurück in die Geschichte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Außerhalb ging die Suche weiter, zumindest für die Familie und Freunde von Ashlyn und Ian. Sie haben einen informellen Anruf auf dem Kapitänhaus der Reservation gemacht, wo Rick Nez, der Präsident, Suchtparteien organisiert hat. Jedoch war die Einwohnung von tribaler und staatlicher Gefängnisverwaltung viel zu erwarten.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Um 8 Uhr Uhr, vier Stunden nachdem die beiden Kinder verletzt wurden und eine volle Stunde nachdem der Verletzungsbericht verletzt wurde, hat Pamelas Schwester, Maybelline Buck, den Farmington-Polizeidepartner, Teil der New Mexico State Police, angerufen. Sie hat ihnen gesagt, Quote, My cousin just posted on Facebook that her kids were kidnapped.
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I was just calling to see if the Navajo PD alerted you guys. Apparently, they found my nephew, he escaped from the van, but they still have my niece." And she was shocked by the response. The dispatcher told her that the Farmington Police Department didn't know a single thing about the missing children. Exasperiert, hat sie ihnen gesagt, dass es urgent war und dass sie geschaut werden mussten.
Murder In America
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Halb eine Stunde später hat sie wieder zurückgeklingelt, um zu sehen, ob sie involviert worden sind. Diese Zeit hat ein anderer Sprecher geantwortet. Als sie die Situation erklärte, fragten sie sie. Hast du das noch an die Reservationpolizei reportiert?
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Schau dir mal an, wie frustriert die Kindesfamilie war, im Wesentlichen die Arbeit von mehreren Polizei-Departementen, weil, leider, die Polizei-Departementen nicht zusammenarbeiten konnten. Maybelline rutschte zum Farmington Polizei-Departement, um mit ihnen in Person zu sprechen. Dort entdeckte sie etwas noch schockierenderes. Meiner Meinung nach war eine Suchteam bereit. Sie sagte den L.A.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Times, Sie sagte, wir haben alle auf dem Standbein hier, wir warten nur auf ein Okay von der Navajo-Nation, weil es ein Jurisdiktionsproblem ist. Sie hat mir gesagt, sie konnten wirklich nichts tun und die Zeit war nur tickend.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Um 9.07 Uhr, fünf Stunden nach der Verletzung von Ashland, hat die Navajo Nation die Polizei einen Amber Alert von der FBI gefordert. Aber das war ein Fehler. Amber Alerts müssen von der Staatspolizei, nicht von der FBI, veröffentlicht werden. Das bedeutet, dass die Navajo Nation den falschen Menschen ausgesprochen hat.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Farmington wurde mehrere Male angerufen und gefragt, warum keine Amber Alert verabschiedet wurde, aber sie hatten keine Antwort. Irgendwann nach Mittwoch hat ein FBI-Agent den Anruf für die Amber Alert von der Navajo Nation Police Department überprüft und die Fehler, die gemacht wurden, bemerkt.
Murder In America
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Sie haben das National Center for Missing and Exploited Children kontaktiert, die in der Regel die Staatspolizei kontaktiert, um eine Amber Alert verabschiedet zu bekommen. Um 2.30 Uhr haben viele Mitglieder der Suchtpartei für Ashland endlich geschlafen, um ein paar Stunden Abstand zu bekommen, bevor die Sonne aufging und die Sucht weiterging. Aber dann wurden sie plötzlich aufgewacht, wach.
Murder In America
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Die Amber Alert war endlich durch die Reservation und weiter. Aber es war eine volle acht Stunden nachdem der Missing Persons-Report veröffentlicht wurde. Zehn Stunden nachdem die Behörden und die Familie eine Beschreibung des Fahrzeugs erhalten hatten, das die Kinder verabschiedet hatte. In anderen Worten, es war viel zu spät.
Murder In America
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Early in the morning, Tom Begay Jr. visited his friend, Rufus Dickey. Rufus had a soft spot for Tom and his brother Sean, who had essentially crumbled after the death of their parents in 2014. Their parents had been loyal attendees of the Native American Church, which combined indigenous beliefs with native beliefs.
Murder In America
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Rufus had taken it upon himself to check on Tom and Sean after the death of their parents and discovered them living in filth. Grundsätzlich haben die beiden so viel mentale und finanzielle Schwierigkeiten, dass sie nichts mehr als Frühstück-Serien essen. Rufus sagte den Los Cruces-Söhnen News, sie seien ohne ihre Eltern verloren.
Murder In America
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Ich hatte nicht viel Essen in meinem Friseur, aber was ich hatte, habe ich ihnen gegeben. Von dann an hat die Gemeinschaft und die Kirche die Jungs genommen, um sie in die richtige Richtung zu führen. Rufus ermutigte Tom, Drogen zu vermeiden, obwohl er 2015 für DWI verurteilt wurde und drei Wochen vor dem Mord von Ashlyn Mike für synthetische Marihuana verhaftet wurde.
Murder In America
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The service began at noon and went on for several hours. Every ceremony is different, and sweat lodges and ceremonies are a central part of many indigenous cultures. However, the general idea and the importance of these remain the same. They are a time for connection, to release impurities in the mind, spirit and body. und sich neu anzulösen.
Murder In America
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Oft sind die Sweat Lodge-Sessionen mit Schreien, Liedern und tiefen Gemeinschaften. Die Leute teilen ihre Sorgen und Stress mit Kirchenärzten in der Dunkelheit voller Steine und Wärme. In manchen Navajo-Gemeinschaften benutzen die Leute Peyote, eine Kaktus mit Mescalin, einem psychoaktiven Komponenten.
Murder In America
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Peyote wurde traditionell in spirituellen und medizinischen Kontexten von indigenen Triben für über 5.000 Jahre genutzt, was es ermöglicht hat, es legal auf tribaler Lande in der heutigen Zeit zu benutzen. Wir wissen nicht, ob Peyote in der Zeremonie an diesem Tag genutzt wurde, aber es ist bekannt, dass viel von der Zeremonie um Ashlyn ging. Rufus Dickey sagte Las Cruces Sohn, es gab Tränen.
Murder In America
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Die Schmerzzeremonie war so emotional. Sie sangen und beteten für Ashlyns sichere Rückkehr als Gruppe. Aber sie hatten alle keine Ahnung, dass ihr Mörder neben ihnen sitzt, in dieser heiligen Zeremonie teilnimmt, ein schreckliches Geheimnis innerhalb sich selbst versteckt.
Murder In America
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It didn't take long for Tom to admit what he had done, at least in part. He admitted to kidnapping the children. Boldly, he told the FBI that he had taken them because he wanted to have sexual intercourse with Ashlyn. Keep in mind, Ashlyn was 11. And just for anybody out there that might be confused, just to be completely clear, that is not sexual intercourse. Das ist Rape.
Murder In America
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Er hat Ashlyn und ihren Bruder verabschiedet, weil er eine innere 11-jährige Mädchen vor einem Monument verabschieden wollte, das für sein Volk heilig war. Nun, der Grund, warum er Ian genommen hat, ist, weil er nicht wollte, dass er weggeht und seiner Familie erzählt, dass Ashlyn in einem Auto mit einem randomen Mann eingeladen wurde, also hat er ihn mitgebracht.
Murder In America
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Einmal im Wälder, hat Tom verabschiedet, dass er das Auto stoppte und mit ihm ein Fahrrad mitgenommen hat, um Ashlyn hinter einem Berg zu gehen, wo ihr Bruder nicht sehen konnte. Er hat dann die junge Frau angemeldet, sich nackt zu strecken. Tom hatte kein Problem damit zu akzeptieren, dass sie durch das gesamte Verhandeln schweigend und beugend war, ihn einfach nach Hause zu nehmen.
Murder In America
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Aber er hat sich nicht interessiert. Initial hat er bestätigt, dass er sie nur digital penetriert hat. Als sie begann zu schreien und zu laut zu weinen, glaubte er, dass er ihr zweimal auf den Kopf mit dem Schraubendreher geschlagen hat.
Murder In America
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Am 6. Mai war Ashlands Geburtstag am Farmington Civic Center Auditorium. Es waren über 3.000 Menschen in Bezug. Am Geburtstag hat Ashlands Mutter die Eulogie geliefert.
Murder In America
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Ashlyns weiße Kassette war mit pink, purple, yellow und weißen Blumen entdeckt, so vibrant in Farbe, wie sie im Leben war. Die meisten Menschen am Feierabend trugen yellow, das war Ashlyns Lieblingsfarbe für die meiste ihrer Kindheit. Laut Gary Mike in den letzten Wochen war ihre neue Farbe royal blue. Doch er war nicht sicher, ob es sich aufhören würde.
Murder In America
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Er sagte zu Squire, und yellow ist auch schön.
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It was the very first step towards healing and justice for the family. Then, on August 1, 2017, the next big step came. At trial, Tom, who had pleaded not guilty at pre-trial, finally changed his plea to guilty. Ashlands family members in the audience began to sob. The judge asked Gary Mike if he had anything he wanted to say to the man who raped and murdered his daughter.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
In Tränen antwortete Gary, dass er nichts sagen konnte. Später, in einer Interview mit der lokalen Station KRQE, sagte er, Worte können nicht beschreiben, was ich fühle, was wir alle fühlen. Tom wurde in Gefängnis verurteilt ohne die Möglichkeit, sich zu verurteilen.
Murder In America
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Nach dem Publizieren dieses Episodes ist er in Indiana bei USP Terre Haute verurteilt, weit weg von der Gemeinschaft, die er verurteilt hat. Wenn du Mörder in Amerika liebst, du liebst Geheimnisse, du liebst echten Kram, du liebst Mördergeschichten und das Unbekannte, dann habe ich ein neues Show für dich.
Murder In America
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Es heißt The Conspiracy Files und es wird von mir, Colin Browen, von Mörder in Amerika und The Paranormal Files gedreht. Auf The Conspiracy Files besuchen wir alles von bizarren Töten bis zu verrückten Paranormalen Events, Pädophilen-Ringen, Regierungs-Korruption, Rituals-Sacrifice. Kein Thema ist auf diesem Show unabhängig.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Alles, was wir über The Conspiracy Files sprechen, wird auf The Conspiracy Files gesetzt. mit Fakten. Ich veröffentliche Referenzschichten mit jedem einzelnen Episode, den wir machen, damit ihr wisst, dass alles, worüber wir reden, veröffentlicht ist, passiert und real ist. Es ist ein völlig anderer Art von Show, als alles andere, was ihr je gesehen habt, über Verschwörungstheorien.
Murder In America
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Anstatt ein paar Konjunkturen und Theorien, präsentieren wir euch Menschen mit Fakten, erzählen euch die Geschichte, gehen euch durch die Geschichte, so detailliert wie wir es mit Mörder in Amerika machen, und dann lassen wir den Zuhörer entscheiden, was sie denken. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show.
Murder In America
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St. Bataille ist ein heiliger Ort. Ein kräftiger Berg von Steinen, die in den Himmel fliegen, wie eine Explosion. Es ist ein berühmter Berg auf Navajo-Land, außerhalb von Shiprock, New Mexico. An beiden Seiten der Steine-Formation streicht der Desert weiter und weiter. St. Bataille, mit seiner Höhe von 1500 Metern, kann von so weit wie 40 Meilen entfernt gesehen werden.
Murder In America
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And you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Emily wurde am 16. Mai 2010 geboren und wurde auf der San Carlos Apache Reservation geboren. Von einer jungen Zeit her waren ihre Eltern separat. Laut Arizona Central News wurde sie in ein bisschen einer Revolving Door Situation geboren. Manchmal lebte sie mit ihrem Bruder, ihrer Mutter, ihrer Großmutter, ihren Eltern und anderen Relativen zu Hause in Paradon.
Murder In America
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Ein Relativ erklärte, dass das Haus nicht immer glücklich war und dass es oft gruselig und phrenetisch war.
Murder In America
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Es ist eine dominierende Figur in der Landschaft. Navajo-Fotografin Pamela Peters sagt, es sei ein sauberer Bezug auf unsere Geschichte, unsere Traditionen, unsere Spiritualität. Es ist wie ein sicherer Relativ, der uns zu Hause willkommen macht. Endquote. Kolonisierer nannten Setbatai Schiprock, weil es für sie wie ein riesiges Frigat aussah, das über den Desert fliegt.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und das ist, wo die Dinge ein wenig müde werden. Nun, die Gruppenzentrum, in der Emily eingestellt wurde, hat intensiv Anstrengungen durch diesen Fall, die wir kürzlich erläutern werden. Auf Google ist das Verhältnis jetzt als geschlossen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Jedoch ist ihre Website immer noch auf und oft werden die Unternehmen ihre Google-Business-Page schließen, wenn sie eine überraschende Anzahl negativer Reviews bekommen. Das ist genau das, was passiert ist, als der Name dieser Facility dem Publikum geleakt wurde.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Die Leute haben sich auf TikTok, Instagram und Twitter getroffen, um zu feiern, dass die Facility geschlossen wurde, aufgrund dieser Google-Business-Page. Aber wir denken, es ist wichtig, hier zu erwähnen, dass das kein Fakt ist.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Was Fakt ist, aber, ist, dass es professionelle Investitionen in die Facility gibt, die wir in diesem Podcast drehen, insbesondere Investitionen, die von sowohl staatlichen als auch tribalen Organisationen erledigt werden.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
We don't know if the facility is truly open or if it's closed, but in the case that it is open, we aren't going to disclose the name in order to protect the safety of any kids that might still be there. At the core of this story, we have to remember that we need to protect those that are the most vulnerable. Das geschieht durch legale Aktion, Gemeinschaftsausrüstung und Reform.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es geschieht nicht durch die Bedrohung eines Ortes, in dem diese Kinder leben, indem sie ihre Adresse auf einem silbernen Plattel an jemanden ausweiten, vor allem wenn die Person, die Emily Pike getötet hat, noch da ist. Aber das Heimgruppe, in dem Emily zwei Jahre lang auf und auf gelebt hat, hatte beruflich zehn Bäume.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
There were no phones allowed in the facility, though people living there were allowed off campus for approved trips, as long as it was disclosed exactly where they were going and when they would be home.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Emily and another child ran away from the group home. Though the report claimed that there were cameras in the hallways in the office, the two preteens weren't seen leaving on either. The night prior, one of the two kids had a secret cell phone confiscated, which is part of what the staff claimed likely led to the girls running away. However, they claimed something entirely different.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Because of the girls' ages, who said what isn't publicly known. It is known that one of the girls told police... Sie wollten nicht zurück in das Gruppengebäude gehen, weil sie es mit dem Schrauben von Wänden, Basenbordern, Fensterhöhlen und dem Schrauben der Gräuze auf ihre Hände und Knie machen wollten.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber für den lokalen Navajo sah es als etwas anderes aus. Der Name Setbata'i entspricht ungefähr dem Wort Rock with Wings, mit dem Wort Bata'i, also etwas, das sich an Fäden bezieht. Die Legende variiert, abhängig davon, wer Sie fragen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Eine der Mädchen hat gesagt, dass sie wieder weggehen würde, wenn die Polizei sie zurückbringt, und dass sie lieber in den Gefängnis gehen würde oder mit ihrer Großmutter leben würde.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und ich kann es nicht sicher sagen, aber was neun Tage später passiert ist, macht mir zu glauben, dass es wahrscheinlich Emily war, die gesagt hat, dass sie wieder weggehen würde, weil sie früh in der Nachmittagszeit missbraucht wurde.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Sie hat dem Offizier, der sie gefunden hat, gesagt, dass sie nicht zurückkehren wollte, weil es ihr unangenehm macht, wenn die Mitarbeiter in Argumente mit anderen Kindern kommen. Einmal mehr wurde Emily zu Hause zurückgekehrt. Für mich ist das der Teil der Geschichte, den das Publikum fokussieren sollte. Es gab einen Grund, warum Emily nicht in der Wohnung sein wollte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Whether that's because of mistreatment from the staff or her own needs not aligning with the program, we don't know. Regardless, it's clear that she was uncomfortable and in need of help. She should have been listened to and protected.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber laut dem Native Memory Project kamen die Navajo von einem anderen Weltraum auf die Füße eines riesigen Pferdes, das in Shiprock landete und in Stein gewechselt wurde. Das Pferd hat sie zu Dinetta, ihrem traditionellen Heimatland auf dieser Erde, eingeladen. was ihre dritte Welt war. Navajo-Leute nennen sie sich Diné, das Wort für ihre Leute.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
War sie tot? War sie lebendig? Wurden sie ihre lachende Gesichter wieder sehen? Und am Ende bekamen sie ihre Antwort in der schlimmsten Art und Weise. Bald nach Weihnachtsabend machte das Gila-Kreis-Polizei einen riesigen Fehler. Auf ihrem Facebook-Kanal haben sie einen internen Memo veröffentlicht. Dieser Memo wollte zu jedem Mitglied ihres Departments gehen, sondern ging an die Welt.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und so wurde es in kaltem, professionellen Sprachen geschrieben. Es schrieb so. Die Memo erklärte, dass Erinnerungen in Globe, Arizona, am Weihnachtsabend auf der 60er-Weite, nahe der 277er-Weite, gefunden wurden. Auf der desolatenen, berghaften Straße gibt es eine Verschiebung mit einem Hiking-Trail. Auf diesem Hiking-Trail hat ein Grupp von Hikern mehrere Kontrakte-Türen entdeckt.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
In den Türen entdeckte die Polizei Erinnerungen. In einer Tüte ein Kopf und ein Torso. In der anderen, die Beine. Die Hände und Beine des Körpers waren missbraucht. Am Ende des Memos wurde gesagt, dass der Körper vermutlich zu 14-jähriger Emily Pike gehörte. Diese Memo wurde wie Wildfire verbreitet, insbesondere für ihre Familie, die über Worte enttäuscht war.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Sie hatten bereits getraumtisiert, weil sie einige der letzten waren, um über ihre Verlust zu lernen. Jetzt lernten sie über ihre schreckliche Tod mit der gesamten Internetseite. Es war nicht bis über eine Woche später, am 27. Februar, dass ihre Erinnerungen positiv identifiziert wurden mit ihren Dental-Rekorden. Aber Emilys Tod ist nun ein Symbol für vermisste und ermordete indigenische Menschen,
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
largely due to her family's quest for justice april victor emily's aunt stated quote emily was a spark and she definitely sparked the world and now the world is on fire because of emily end quote hashtag say her name emily pike started to trend a rallying cry used to bring attention not only to her murder but the disappearance and murders of hundreds of indigenous people across america people have gathered to create memorials in honor of emily
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
memorials that are adorned with red handprints the symbol of mmip the water tower on the san carlos apache reservation is adorned with a beautiful portrait of emily smiling down on the reservation where her body should be resting with peace but tragically it's not
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Einige Ältere sagen, dass Diné die Oberfläche-Leute bezeichnet oder die Leute zwischen dem Himmel und der Mutter Erde. Andere sagen, dass es sich einfach an die Leute bezieht. Shiprock oder Sepetai ist dort, wo manche glauben, dass die Diné von dieser Welt geworden ist.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Mit einem störenden Anzahl an missbrauchten nativistischen Frauen und Mädchen wäre es nicht überraschend, wenn diese Person andere Gefühle hätte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es ist ihr Geburtstag, ein Symbol ihres Belohnens hier und die Verbindung ihrer Leute zu einem anderen und diesem wunderschönen Land.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
In diesem Video haben wir juristische Probleme besprochen, aber das ist die größte ehrgeizige Repräsentation von allem. Wie viele nativistische Kinder, Frauen, Zweifel und Männer müssen weggehen, bevor jemand einen Weg findet, wie diese Fälle dem Publikum präsentiert werden?
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Bevor die Medien und die Gesetzgebung diese unnötigen Menschen mit dem selben Wunsch als eine reiche Person in einer Stadt behandeln?
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
There's 13-year-old Aurora Torres, who went missing from the Gila River community on March 25th, 2025. Raina B. Pratt, also from the Gila River community, who was last seen at 8 a.m. on March 26th, 2025. There's 16-year-old Amber Pinto, missing from the Navajo Nation since December 14th, 2022. Berlina Parker, missing from Albuquerque, New Mexico since September 27th, 2024.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Es gibt Kayla Kamasi, Kiara Yazzie, Liana Bennet, Markeisha Declay, alle unter 20 Jahren alt, mit so wenig öffentliche Informationen vorhanden, dass es schwer ist, genau wann und wo sie verloren haben.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Hey Leute, vielen Dank für's Zuhören zu dieser Woche's Episode von Murder in America. Ich bin eine Stimme auf der Internetseite für die Angelegenheit, die wir in der Vergangenheit gemacht haben, wirklich wahrzunehmen. Besonders den indigenischen Menschen auf meinem YouTube-Kanal. Ich habe ganze Dokumentare über indigenische Geburtsräume gemacht, die komplett zerstört wurden, um Straßen zu bauen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Ich komme aus Süddakota, also habe ich viel davon gesehen. Und wir hatten einen sehr korrupten Staatsanwalt in Süddakota, der Kinder mit sexuellen Verbrechern wiederholt hat. Das ist ein ganz anderes Thema, um es an einem anderen Tag zu sprechen. Aber ich fühle dieses Problem in meinem Geist. Ich weiß, dass Courtney es auch tut.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Also alles, was wir tun können, um Hilfe zu versuchen, werden wir versuchen. Und wir werden die Alarm fortsetzen, hoffentlich die Bewusstsein dieses großen Problems zu verbreiten. Und wir hoffen und beten beide, dass Resolution in diesem Fall kommt. Wenn ihr den Kanal unterstützen möchtet, könnt ihr uns auf Patreon einladen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Wenn ihr die Ads nicht möchtet und ihr echte Zugang zu jedem Video möchtet, könnt ihr das durch unseren Patreon machen. Außerdem gibt es Bonus-Episode vom Show. Wenn ihr also noch nie auf Patreon eingeladen habt, könnt ihr sich einladen, um ein Mitglied zu werden und sofort über 100 volllängere Bonus-Episode von Murder in America zu bekommen. Bonus-Episode, die...
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Also vergesst nicht, uns auf Instagram zu folgen, bei Murder in America. Please leave us a 5-star review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. We really want to boost those reviews. Thank you to everybody who has already done all of that. But yeah, this is such a tragic case and we're just hoping that there's resolution soon. And if that happens, we will be sure to give you guys a major update.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Anyways, y'all, thank you for tuning in. Have a great rest of your weekend and I'll catch y'all on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Wenn Menschen von Ashlyn sprechen, sagen sie fast immer, dass sie eine Kreativität am Herzen war. Sie spielte das Xylophon und das Piano mit impeccablen Fähigkeiten, als ob sie aus ihrem Geburtstag gespielt hätte. Als sie keine Instrumente spielte, war sie ein Schauspieler.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Sie hat mehrere Werte für ihre Schauspieler in der Schule und in der Gemeinschaft gewonnen und hat sie sogar nur ein paar Wochen vor ihrer Todeszeit bekommen. Eine ihrer Schauspieler, die wir auf Instagram und Patreon posten, zeigt die Schönheit ihrer nativen Heimat. Es ist klar, wie viel Inspiration die Umgebung für ihre wachsende Meinung war.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nun, für die meiste ihrer Kindheit waren ihre Eltern nicht zusammen. Aber auf alle Fälle wuchs sie, fühlte die Liebe von beiden ihrer Eltern, zusammen mit ihrem Bruder und Schwester Ian und Gracelyn. Ihre Mutter, Pamela, lebte auf einer Farm in Redlands, Kalifornien, wo Ashlyn oft besuchen würde.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Warnung! Der folgende Podcast ist nicht für alle Audienzen zuständig. Wir gehen in großem Detail mit jedem Fall, den wir coveren, und tun unser Bestes, die Zuschauer noch tiefer in die Geschichte bringen, indem wir disturbierende Audio- und Soundeffekte nutzen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Sie hat gebeten, mit den Tieren zu spielen und sie zu kümmern, die Hunde, Katzen und Hühnern zu behandeln, als wären sie ihre liebsten Freunde.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Ein schmutziger Maroon-Van kam zu Gracelyn und ihren Cousinen. Der Mann, Tom Begay Jr., schlug durch das Fenster und lachte an die Kinder. Er war in seinen 20er Jahren, ein Freund von Danae, aber die Kinder dachten nicht, dass sie ihn je gesehen hätten. Aber seltsam genug fragte er sie, ob sie einen Film sehen wollten. Findend dies seltsam, sagte Gracelyn ihm stark Nein.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Dann fragte er, ob die Kinder eine Reise nach Hause brauchen sollten. Aber wiederum sagte Gracelyn ihm Nein. Die Reise nach Hause war etwas, was sie jeden Tag für Jahre gemacht haben. Sie brauchten keine Reise, also hat der Mann sein Fenster aufgerollt und weggefahren, das Wasser hinter ihm zu schlagen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Die Kinder dachten, dass die Begegnung seltsam war, aber es war nicht komplett ungewöhnlich für die Leute auf der Reservation, sich einander wie eine Familie zu behandeln, auch wenn sie sich noch nie kennengelernt haben. Bram Biele, ein Dinei, der in einer anderen Gemeinschaft lebt, sagte im Albuquerque Journal. In der Navajo-Kultur gibt es dieses Konzept von Kindheit.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Eigentlich behandelt man jedes Kind, Ältere und Person, als ob sie Teil Ihrer direkten Familie sind.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Am Ende kreisteten sie über einen Berg, ein paar Meilen nach Süden von Sainte-Bataille. Sie waren auf einer unglaublich breiten Dirtstraße. Es ist schwer zu verstehen, wie breit es ist, bis man eine desertische Gemeinschaft besucht, so wie diese. Die Straßen in diesen Bereichen sind breit genug.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Aber wenn man sich eine Runde über 1, 2, 3, 4 dörrige Straßen dreht, die sich über Meilen und Meilen strecken, können andere Menschen aussehen, als wären sie einen anderen Weltraum entfernt, obwohl sie sie sehen können. Das ist das, was in diesem Fall passiert ist. Um die Kinder herum gab es nichts mehr als Kühe, Pferde und Häuser, die nah genug zu sehen waren, aber zu weit, um Hilfe zu bekommen.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Nach dem Kressen der Hillen hat Tom das Fahrzeug stoppt. Er hat Ashlyn rausgeholt und Ian geordert, in der Rückseite zu bleiben und ruhig zu bleiben, bis er zurückkam. Ashlyn hat ihr Bruder's Hand zum letzten Mal gespürt. und tat, was sie gesagt hatte, weinend, als sie aussteigte.
Murder In America
EP. 198: ARIZONA - The Murder of Emily Pike
Und horrifisch, von hier an, würde Tom später sagen, dass er zu der Rückseite eines Autos ging und ein Tire-Iron entdeckte, es unter seinem Jackett versteckte, damit die Kinder es nicht sehen und erschrocken würden.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
What's your name?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
What's the problem?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Is your husband there? No. Well, what's the problem? I need them to come. I need to know why we're coming, ma'am. Is he there standing next to you? Pardon me? Are you having a disturbance? Are you ill or what?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
You need an ambulance?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
What's the problem? Is someone burglarizing your house? I mean, what is it? What kind of medical problem do you have, ma'am? I just need a police officer. You're at 942 Beachcomber, right?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Are you there alone?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Andrea Yates, is your husband there with you?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Well, why do you need the police, ma'am?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
From here, Officer David Knapp responded to the scene. But while he was on his way over, Andrea placed another call, this time to her husband, Rusty. When Rusty picked up the phone at work, Andrea immediately said, It's time. I finally did it. before asking him to come home.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
According to court documents, Andrea's comment to Rusty was in reference to the biblical prophecy and revelations about Armageddon. the last battle between good and evil. Upon getting this phone call, Rusty knew it wasn't good, and he quickly left work. But before he could get home, Officer David Knapp pulled up to the scene at 9.55 a.m.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
After parking his squad car outside the house, he walked up the concrete path to a wrought iron front gate, unlocked it, and proceeded to ring the doorbell. Seconds later, the door opened, and standing in front of him was Andrea Yates. One of the first things he noticed was that she was soaking wet, but in a calm voice, she told him that she had just killed her children.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
From there, she led the officer down a darkened hallway to the primary bedroom. The carpet in the bedroom was saturated with water. but Andrea then points towards the bed. Officer Knapp could see the outline of four small bodies underneath a sheet, and when he pulls the covers back, he sees an image that he'll never be able to forget.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
There, lying alongside each other, were four small children, all under the age of five. They were all soaking wet, still in their pajamas. Each of their heads were resting on pillows, and their eyes were open, staring vacantly up at the ceiling. Officer Knapp checked for signs of life, and although they were all still warm to the touch, the children were deceased.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
From there, Andrea led the officer into the bathroom, where he saw seven-year-old Noah still floating in the bathtub. It was the worst thing Officer Knapp had ever seen. He quickly called for backup, and soon enough, the house on Beachcomber Lane would be swarming with police.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on Instagram, post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to murder in America. That seriously helps us so much helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously. Thank y'all.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
But let's get back to the story. Throughout the entire 17 minute confession, Andrea was very honest with investigators. She didn't make excuses for herself or try to make anyone feel bad for her. She was very matter of fact and emotionless. But back at home, a large crowd had gathered. There were friends and family members, neighbors, police, and of course the media.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
And word about those murders spread like wildfire. This would go on to be one of Houston's most infamous cases. As the news spread, the community of Clear Lake and the people who had been closest to Andrea were shocked that she had committed such a horrific act. Family members and friends were in disbelief.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
No one could have ever imagined that Andrea would have been capable of killing her children. To them, she had always been a loving and doting mother. Here's Andrea's childhood friend, Marlene Wark, talking about hearing the news.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Now, at 2.45 p.m. that day, Rusty Yates went to the Harris County Medical Examiner's office to identify the bodies of his children. They were all lying there, still in their pajamas. Each child had a foam-like substance that was tinged with blood coming out of their mouths.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
and noses the little ones diapers were big and wet from all the water and sadly each of the kids was covered in bruises indicating that they had put up a fight against their mother when she was trying to kill them but from there Rusty said his goodbyes to his children a moment he would never forget and the following day on June 21st surrounded by a sea of reporters Rusty would stand outside the family home with a framed picture of his family
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
And to everyone's surprise, he expressed sympathy for his wife.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Later that same day, Dr. Melissa Ferguson spoke with Andrea at the Houston Police Department and noted, It was very clear that Andrea was not in the right state of mind. She even told investigators that her father had starved himself and died by suicide, which wasn't true. Her dad died after a long battle with Alzheimer's disease.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
But Andrea continued telling investigators that she was a bad mother and a bad daughter. She talked about how she stopped showering because she was too tired. She said that she hadn't been homeschooling her oldest son, Noah, because he was a R-word and that she wasn't homeschooling him correctly.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
In part one of this story, we left off with Andrea getting discharged from the psych ward once again. Over the past couple of years, she had been admitted on numerous occasions after multiple suicide attempts and severe hallucinations where she was hearing voices telling her to harm people. But like all the times before, Andrea would eventually get better.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Two days after the murders, on June 22nd, as the sun set on 942 Beachcomber Lane, hundreds of people arrived for a candlelight vigil to remember the Yates' children. There wasn't a dry eye in the crowd. Eventually, Rusty emerged from the house as a swarm of media and television cameras rushed to meet him.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
He respectfully asked the media to step back and said, He also told everyone to continue to pray for Andrea as she was in jail, suffering with the repercussions from what she had done. And from there, the crowd began to sing Amazing Grace. In front of them, surrounding a tree in the yard, was a shrine filled with teddy bears, flowers, balloons, pictures, and notes.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
She'd be discharged from the hospital and promised to take her medication, but she never followed through on those promises. Andrea didn't like the way this medication made her feel, so she would just stop taking it. And it would only be a matter of time until she started having psychotic symptoms once again. Now, in the spring of 2001, Andrea's father would die from a long battle of Alzheimer's.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Once the temperatures started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything. So we both decided to switch things up and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Everything with Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.
Murder In America
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Go to quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash America to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash America. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
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In addition to that, she had also just given birth to her only daughter, Mary. So on top of losing her father, she was also experiencing another horrific bout of postpartum depression.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
While the Yates children were being buried, their mother Andrea was still in the psychiatric jail cell undergoing evaluations. Throughout that week, she continued hearing Satan's voice inside the cinderblock walls of the jail. She also told Dr. Ferguson that there were objects in the light fixtures. She then leaned forward in her chair and loudly stated, It is the seventh deadly sin.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were going to perish. I was so stupid. Couldn't I have killed just one to fulfill the prophecy?
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
andrea then asked if her children were in heaven before saying that she wanted a razor to shave her head she told dr ferguson that she was satan and wanted to see if the mark of the beast 666 was still on the top of her head her defense psychiatrist dr lucy puryear would later say she was the sickest person i've ever seen in my life she was not bathed she was dressed in this orange jail outfit her shirt was falling off of her she didn't have a bra on her hair was hanging in her face and she was shaking
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Her defense attorney would say, She had eyes when she looked at you. Had no pupils. They were like shark eyes. She can answer questions about what happened, but any sort of question about why or what's going on or what are you doing, it just sort of sent her into an immediate never-never land. But in Andrea's mind, she wasn't mentally ill.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
She denied being sick at all, claiming that everything she experienced was actually happening. She told her doctors that she was Satan and even said, The state will impose the death penalty on Satan.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Now, throughout Andrea's evaluations, she never denied murdering her five children. She even told her counsel, attorneys George Parnham and Wendell Odom, that she wanted to plead guilty during her trial. She placed the blame on herself, often referring to herself as Satan, but her doctors knew that she was mentally ill. Dr. Vincent Roselli said, She's clearly insane.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
You can't have that kind of history and all of a sudden, bam, you kill five kids. She's a nurse, and most nurses are pretty nurturing kinds of people, caretakers. and you don't just suddenly drown five kids, something went wrong.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
the next three weeks the state argued that andrea yates knew what she was doing on the morning of the murders according to their argument andrea's actions were intentional and premeditated their evidence for this andrea purposefully waited until rusty left the house that morning she also committed the murders quickly before her mother was set to arrive according to the state's argument andrea was in her right mind and knew the perfect time to act
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
They relied heavily on physical evidence, especially when it came to the order in which the children were murdered. Instead of murdering the oldest child, Noah, first, she started with the younger children. The state argued that Andrea methodically planned this because there was a chance that Noah would have alerted the other children, and perhaps one of them could have run out of the house.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Now, they did not deny that Andrea Yates was mentally ill. However, they stated that she did know the difference between right and wrong.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
To further prove Andrea's psychosis, the defense also brought up the Waranecki family, the Fire and Brimstone pastors that they looked up to. Like we mentioned earlier in this story, Andrea and Rusty communicated with these pastors for years, and many of their teachings were fear-inducing.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
The Yates family even received the Waranecki's newsletters, which were filled with these intense religious ideologies. One of the newsletters included a poem titled, Modern Mother Worldly. It read, Modern Mother Worldly was very, very lazy. All her children drove her crazy. The Bible told her to spank and train them, but society said she must never constrain them.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
On May 14th, 2001, Rusty took Andrea back to Dr. Saeed's office because she had once again slipped into a catatonic state. Rusty told the doctor that the antipsychotic medication, Risperdal, wasn't working, and he suggested that she be put back on Haldol. which had worked on Andrea in the past. He also told the doctor about how Andrea randomly filled up the bathtub several times that week.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
The fruit of rebellion she did not see. On the day of judgment she will have no plea. Modern Mother Worldly cast in hell. Now what becomes of the children of such a Jezebel? The defense argued that Andrea truly believed she was a Jezebel and was possessed by an unknown demonic force.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
One expert, defense psychiatrist Dr. Philip Resnick, even labeled Andrea's condition as cacodemonomania, the belief that one is possessed by a demon. Dr. Resnick stated that cacodominomania is often found with people suffering from religious delusions.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Andrea was also obsessed with the Bible verse Luke 17.2 that stated, It would be better for him if a milestone were hung around his neck than he were thrown into the sea than that he should cause one of the little ones to stumble. And Andrea quoted that verse in her evaluations. She said her children were stumbling and that she needed to save them before it was too late.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Dr. Saeed once again proposed electroshock therapy, but Rusty was completely against it. Interestingly, postpartum psychosis is often treated with a mix of medications and electroshock therapy. In fact, according to the Mayo Clinic,
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
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the mild electrical currents that are passed through a person's brain changes the brain activity that's responsible for symptoms of psychosis and depression of course there's a negative stigma attached to ect and many people still believe that it's a barbaric treatment when it originally came out they didn't use anesthesia and the amount of electrical shock they were using was intense but today patients are usually given a muscle relaxer put under general anesthesia and a mild electrical current is used
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show. than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story. From there, Andrea was transferred from the county jail to Skyview, a prison psychiatric hospital in Rusk, Texas. In the beginning, she still showed signs of mental illness. But as the time went on, she got better.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Eventually, two years would pass. And after all that time of finally being consistent with her medication, Andrea showed signs of improvement. Now, on July 30th, 2004, Rusty Yates filed for divorce from Andrea. which obviously wasn't easy for her, but she had accepted her fate.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
She even started attending Bible studies with other women prisoners, and slowly her responsibilities at the prison increased. She started mopping the floors, tending the flower beds outside, and doing laundry. All these tasks gave Andrea comfort. But throughout the years, her defense attorneys worked hard to clear her name.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Of course, they knew Andrea murdered her children, but she wasn't some evil woman who was motivated to kill after watching a Law & Order episode, like Dr. Dietz had claimed. Andrea had been truly insane, and her defense worked hard with their appeals, which would finally pay off on January 6, 2005.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
That day, the Texas First Court of Appeals reversed Andrea's capital murder conviction, and she was granted a second trial.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
and many doctors swear by it but for whatever reason rusty wasn't sold and that day at 6 pm noticing her obvious mental decline andrea yates was readmitted to devereaux dr saeed wrote in his report patient is sad depressed tearful not talking she was assigned to unit 3 in a two-bed room where she had a roommate
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Following the trial, a member of the jury named Todd Frank would tell a news reporter, We understand that she knew it was legally wrong, but in her delusional mind, we believe that she thought what she did was right. Ultimately, the second jury accepted that Andrea's psychosis had impaired her ability to understand right from wrong.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
they were persuaded that Andrea truly believed Satan was speaking to her, and in an effort to save her children's lives, she killed them to make sure they were safe in heaven. Following this verdict, Andrea was taken to the Kerrville State Hospital in Kerrville, Texas, where she remains to this day.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
But Andrea's trial brought about many conversations about a number of things like mental health, how to care for mothers postpartum, and how things could have gone differently. What if the doctors who had been seeing her had realized just how severe her postpartum psychosis was? What if she had been more consistent with her medicine? Another conversation was about the Warnecki family.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
who had been corresponding with the Yates family for years, sending them Armageddon-type messages that only added to Andrea's religious delusions. Former followers of the Waranecki family would later come forward and say that as soon as they heard that Andrea Yates was associated with this family,
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Their hearts sank, because some of the main teachings of the Waranekis were that only a handful of people even make it into heaven, and that everyone else was going to spend an eternity suffering in hell. They created these scary religious views where they told people that everyone's going to hell, that time was running out, and that Satan was everywhere.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
And during Andrea's trial, the psychiatrist even said that she believed that Andrea would never have drowned her children if she hadn't been hearing these messages from Michael Waranecki. Now, obviously, Michael Waranecki disputed these claims, but his former followers would later say that he had a way of getting into vulnerable people's minds.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
And for any mentally insane person hearing these messages from someone they look up to, it's not going to be good for them.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
The young woman who was in the room with Andrea would later say that she was clearly detached from reality. It seemed as if she was simply just a body, like her spirit was missing.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
On April 23, 2002, Andrea's legal team released the following statement. On June 20, 2001, a tragedy of immense proportions occurred within the family of Andrea and Rusty Yates and their children Noah, John, Paul, Luke, and Mary. The drowning deaths of these children have galvanized world attention on issues of women's mental health and the insanity laws.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
The lesson to be learned from Andrea Yates? Mental condition should be the catalyst of change. As a society, We must work together to better understand and deal with mental health issues."
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Hey, everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for listening to part two of the Andrea Yates story and tuning in to Murder in America this week. As I said before, at the end of the last episode that we did on Andrea Yates, the story hits close to home because Courtney and I live in Houston. And, I mean, there's just so many emotions that this story brings out of a person.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
It's just a crazy story from start to finish. But, it's 2025 and we have some absolutely incredible episodes coming up in the next few weeks, months, honestly for the whole year. We've got almost the whole year planned out. And if you want early ad-free access to those episodes, consider joining us on Patreon. I know some people really don't like the ads.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
That's why we created the Patreon, so that people could subscribe to gain access to a fully ad-free experience. Also, there are bonus episodes available on Patreon, so if you love the show and you want to hear more episodes of Murder in America that will never be posted on our main feed, that's just another reason why you should consider signing up for our Patreon.
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EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
As always, don't forget to follow us at Murder in America on Instagram. and listen to our new show, The Conspiracy Files, available on all streaming platforms. And yeah, until next week, guys, it's so great to have everybody here. Hope you have been having an incredible January so far. And from Courtney and I both, thanks for listening, and I'll catch you on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
On May 11th, about a week into her stay, Andrea told Dr. Saeed that she was finally feeling better and that she was no longer having hallucinations. said she wanted to go home and participate in outpatient therapy like she had done all the times before and surprisingly three days later on may 14th they granted her request andrea was once again discharged under the condition
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
that she continue outpatient therapy. On May 17th, Dr. Saeed wrote that Andrea was improved and that she had even started to slightly participate in her group therapy. During it, she opened up about her negative self-image and how it influenced her relationships. When asked what she enjoyed most being back at home, she replied, being back with family.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Then just eight days after being discharged from the hospital, she was also discharged from her outpatient therapy. The reasoning being patient, not suicidal. But Andrea Yates was not cured.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Throughout the past few years, she had been on this vicious cycle of being admitted to hospital, feeling better, getting discharged, attending group therapy, and then leaving once she felt like it no longer served her. But in every single instance, it was only a matter of time until Andrea Yates started to spiral again. She was sick, but no one seemed to have realized just how sick she truly was.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
And on June 4th, for whatever reason, her doctors took her off her antipsychotic medication, Aldol. And soon after, Andrea started hearing the voices again. One evening, while watching cartoons with her children, the characters started speaking to her directly. They were calling her a bad mother. At one point, she even heard them speaking directly to her children, telling them,
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Don't eat so much candy. Your mother's feeding you too much cereal. Here's Andrea herself describing this experience.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Her family could tell that Andrea wasn't doing well. On June 18th, 2001, Rusty even drove her back to Dr. Saeed's office and told him that Andrea wasn't getting better. In fact, she was getting much worse. Andrea had been off her antipsychotic medication for weeks now, but for some reason, they didn't put her back on.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
Strangely enough, they even reduced her antidepressant dosage from 450mg to 300mg. Now, why they would do this when she was clearly showing signs of a mental decline, we don't know. And apparently, Rusty even argued with the doctors about this, but they assured him that this was the appropriate dosage, and with that, He and Andrea left the hospital for the very last time.
Murder In America
EP. 185: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 2)
From there, Rusty would pick up Andrea's prescription, and that night, he watched as she took her medication. But antidepressants weren't going to help Andrea. She needed severe psychiatric help. Help that never came. Which brings us to June 20th, 2001.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But Debbie and Mark were experts in their field, so they ended up working with Ghost Adventures on a number of their episodes. Having them on the show allowed them to get evidence of the paranormal in a way that they hadn't been able to do before, and Nick was fascinated with their craft. Over the years, he spent a lot of time with the couple, and he learned a lot from them as well.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
As a little background, Debbie and Mark were married in 1989, and from the looks of it, they seemed to be the perfect match. They had a lot of shared interests throughout their lives, like animals, Bruce Springsteen, and they both loved the very well-known show, The Sopranos. Now upon meeting each other, Mark learned that Debbie had a gift. she was able to connect with the afterlife.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Mark would later say, quote, "'Debbie has the gift of attracting spirits. "'She considers herself born with the natural ability "'to see, feel, and hear spirits. "'She also feels she vibrates on a level "'to glimpse into the nature realm,' end quote." And Debbie had had this gift for as long as she could remember. She grew up in a small New Jersey town, in a house that faced a cemetery.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
She believed her house was haunted, and as she grew up, she wanted to seriously uncover the truth when it came to spirits and the afterlife. She ended up studying at the Reno Psychic Institute to help develop her clairvoyant skills. and eventually she would meet her future husband, Mark. Now Mark always believed in the afterlife, but he had never had a paranormal experience.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
However, that would soon change. While he and Debbie lived in an apartment in Wayne, New Jersey, the couple started experiencing things. They would wake up in the middle of the night with deep scratches on their bodies. As they were hanging out in the living room, items in their home would fly off the shelves. And then at times, they would even see ghostly apparitions.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
From there, the couple would embark on their journey into the paranormal together.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
To be continued...
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But despite everything, Mark and Debbie were very passionate about their jobs. Soon enough, they started traveling to some of the most haunted places in the world. And the more they worked within this industry, the more skilled they became. Eventually, they were big names in the paranormal, and they worked with the best of the best, including the widely popular TV show, Ghost Adventures.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
In 2008, Debbie praised Ghost Adventures for being unique, saying, "...there are a lot of people out there doing paranormal shows. They're a dime a dozen now. What makes this show unique is that they're going to some of the most haunted evil locations. If you really want to be frightened, they're doing the horror."
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Over the years, Nick spent a lot of time with the Constantinos. They would film together, do events together, but even off camera, he grew close to the couple. When he was in town, he would go hang out at their house, spending time with them, and they would frequently talk on the phone. And like with every person you spend time with, Nick began to pick up on how the couple operated.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
which is kind of how a lot of people describe their relationship. Debbie and Mark argued constantly, and it didn't matter who was around or what type of professional setting they were in. If one of them was upset, everyone was about to know about it.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
To start the interview off, we asked Nick what initially got him interested in this field.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But despite the problems in their marriage, Debbie and Mark Constantino were very successful. Every time their faces came up on the TV, people loved them. However, the viewers had no idea just how troubled things were behind the scenes. The people who worked with them though, were well aware. In the fall of 2007, Mark and Debbie were asked to teach an EVP class at a community college.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So in order for them to get publicity for the class, local news crew KTVN asked the couple to conduct many investigations to get people interested. So that's what they would do along with their friend Janice Oberding. But Janice said that after the investigation, on their ride home, the couple argued the entire way.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Apparently, Mark complained that Debbie was trying to take all of the spotlight, that she controlled the entire thing and made it all about her. Now this friend of theirs, Janice, would later tell the Reno Gazette, quote, "...they were average people, and just because they believed in the paranormal, that doesn't make them crazy.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
She could yell and scream and they would fight, but I never saw either of them lift a hand."
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
end quote but clearly there were things going on behind the scenes in march of 2014 debbie was arrested for domestic battery in reno according to a krnv article she had cut mark's arm with a knife after an argument about money according to mark's protective order he said quote she grabbed a knife and swiped at me i said i would call the cops she started screaming at me.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
She went into a bedroom and said that I threatened to rape her like she usually did. The cops were outside and heard her screaming. And this wasn't the first protective order sought out by Mark. In fact, in July of 2012, he filed an order citing that he was frightened Debbie would stab him while she was intoxicated. But one day later, he ended up dropping that order.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But August of 2015 is when things started to get really bad for the Constantinos. It was July 7th. On that day, Debbie got a text from Mark saying that their dog had escaped from their yard. Now Debbie was a huge animal lover, so she immediately made her way home. But when she pulled up to their house, Mark had allegedly pulled her out of the car and started beating her.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Sadly, their 23-year-old daughter Raquel also participated in the beating. Debbie had been beaten so brutally, it was reported that her nose had been broken. She also later stated that Mark had pulled her into their house and attempted to strangle her. He squeezed hard enough that she almost passed out. Debbie said that during the assault, he also threatened to slit her throat.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Now from there, the police were called and Mark was ultimately arrested and charged with first degree kidnapping, first degree domestic battery and domestic battery by strangulation. Their daughter Raquel was also arrested and charged with first degree battery and first degree burglary. So as you can see, things had gotten really bad.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Following this incident, Debbie even called up Nick to update him on everything that was going on.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
It's also around this time when Debbie got into contact with her life coach named Rebecca Evans. According to Rebecca, in the last few months of Deborah's life, she was just trying to survive. Rebecca would later say, quote, it was a slow buildup, and I don't think in the beginning of their relationship they had those kind of problems.
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The years rolled on, and she said the domestic issues progressed. I was really scared for her." Then, about a week before her death, Debra called her life coach for the last time. Rebecca said, quote, She called me and she told me,
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i'm living on a couch but i don't care she said i'm so happy but even after this phone call rebecca was worried about her she would later say that she always wondered quote what's gonna happen to this girl but in their last conversation rebecca said that she was happy that debbie had finally found some peace Rebecca would later say, quote, she had hope the last time I saw her.
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She had hope when she left and we talked about all of the things that we could do, end quote. However, Rebecca had no idea that this would be their very last conversation. Now, like we mentioned, Debbie had called Nick to let him know what was going on and that if Mark called, he was not supposed to tell him where she was located.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But shortly after this call from Debbie, Nick said that he was pretty surprised to see that he was getting a call from Mark.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
After high school, Nick went off to college at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. And from there, he started exploring his interests even more.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Nick had no idea that about 24 hours after hanging up the phone with Mark Constantino, that he would go on a killing spree. Over the last month of his life, Mark had lost control of everything. After getting arrested, he had lost his reputation, his wife, his money, and his career. And to add insult to injury, Debbie was clearly moving on with her life.
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After filing for divorce, she was posting on her social media and she looked really happy. She posted pictures with friends, getting her nails done, and living her life to the fullest. But not Mark. For weeks, he sat alone at his home in Reno, Nevada, spiraling.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
On Facebook, he vented that Debbie had taken all of her belongings out of the house, but left the ashes of their six-month-old daughter behind. He wrote, quote, "'How the fuck can someone do that?' End quote." Now eventually, he even moved out of their house and went to stay with their daughter Raquel. I guess being in their home was too much for him.
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And everyone could tell that Mark was struggling, but no one expected what would come next. Which brings us to September 22nd, 2015. Like we mentioned, Debbie had been telling everyone to keep her new address hidden from Mark. She feared for her life. But the one thing that kept her at peace was that Mark had no idea where she was. However, that would soon change.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
It's unclear who gave Mark Debbie's location, but Nick said that he was told it was a friend of theirs. And once Mark figured out the address, he grabbed his gun and made his way over. Inside the house at the time was Debbie and one of her roommates, 55-year-old Jimmy Anderson. Their other roommate, Summer Myers, was luckily at her boyfriend's house at the time.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But as Mark pulled up to the house that day, he was full of rage. Now it's unclear exactly what happened next, We don't know if someone opened the door or if Mark barged his way inside, but we do know that the garage door was left open, so perhaps he entered the house that way. But upon entering the residence, Mark would first encounter Jimmy Anderson.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
He then pointed his gun at him and pulled the trigger. Jimmy Anderson had been shot directly in the head and he died right there in the hallway of his home. And it should be stated here that it's very likely that Debbie witnessed the entire thing. In the past, Debbie had claimed in interviews that when Mark was angry, he would have this darkness come over him, that his eyes would turn black.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And I can imagine in that moment, Debbie saw just that. She likely feared that after murdering Jimmy, that Mark would then turn the gun on her. But strangely enough, that's not what would happen. At least, not at that moment. After murdering Jimmy, Mark would actually kidnap Debbie. He forced her into his car and started driving back to their daughter's apartment.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And I can't help but think about what was said along that drive. I can imagine that Debbie was pleading with him to spare her life. She might have even told him exactly what she thought he wanted to hear. We can get back together. We can talk about things. But Mark was angrier than ever. Once they got back to their daughter's apartment, Debbie was forced inside.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Their daughter Raquel wasn't home at the time and the only other person who knew Debbie was in danger was Jimmy Anderson. And he had just been shot dead. So at that time, no one knew where Debbie was. And no one was coming to save her.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Nearby this apartment was a high school. And since this was a potential hostage situation, the school was put on lockdown and a SWAT team surrounded the apartment complex. But as they did, they heard the sound of three gunshots. Mark then yelled out to law enforcement, quote, give me 15 minutes to gather my thoughts or I'll kill her, end quote.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
For the next three hours, Mark would go back and forth with negotiators. They did everything they could to get him to release Debbie, but Mark wasn't complying. Little did they know, however, that Debbie was already dead. Mark had already, at this point, shot her in the face two times. So for those three hours, he had been sitting by her body trying to figure out what to do next.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I'm sure he wrestled with the decision of whether to turn himself in or to kill himself. And ultimately, he chose the latter. Shortly before 1.30 p.m., the SWAT team outside of the apartment heard a single gunshot. And from there, Mark Constantino was no longer responding to them. And to their dismay, When they called out for Debbie Constantino, she wasn't answering them either.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So at 1.30 p.m., the SWAT team used explosives to gain entry into the apartment. And it's there where they found the bodies of Mark and Debbie Constantino.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But 10 years after the deaths of Jimmy Anderson and Mark and Debbie Constantino, Ghost Adventures would be in the media once again, this time involving conspiracy to commit murder. So let's rewind a bit, all the way back to the birth of Ghost Adventures.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Like we mentioned earlier, around 2007, Nick Groff decided that he and Zach Bagans were going to film at haunted locations around America, and he invited Aaron Goodwin to come along with them. Soon enough, the trio would be widely known across the world. But in the beginning, Aaron Goodwin wasn't sure if this was the right path for him. This industry can be dark.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And Aaron said that for a while, he felt like some of that darkness was following him into his everyday life. At the time, he was married to a woman named Sheena. And when he would leave for filming, scary things would start happening around their home. Posters flying off the walls, the toilet seat mysteriously going up on its own. It was scary. And being the wife of a ghost hunter myself,
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I've had similar experiences. But despite everything, Erin decided to stick with it.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Now, as for Victoria and Aaron, the two started off as friends, but over time, their friendship blossomed into a relationship. And in August of 2018, they finally made it official. On his Instagram page, Aaron posted a photo of the two holding hands. with a caption that read, quote, we have been friends and there for each other in tough times over the years.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Now we realize it's bigger than that, end quote. On October 29th, 2019, Erin posted another photo of Victoria at Disneyland's castle with a black halo ring in front of her with the caption, quote, she said yes. Now on the Ghost Adventures Reddit fan page, fans congratulated the couple, but some were suspicious.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
One user wrote, quote, Now, anytime you're a public figure, people are going to have their opinions on your significant other, especially when you've built your fan base up for years. I remember when Colin and I first started dating, people hated me. But eventually they came around, and I kind of learned that that's just how it goes when you share your life online.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Which seemed to be the case for Aaron and Victoria. Although many of Aaron's fans supported him in their relationship, Victoria seemed to have a lot of haters.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
A lot of these users believe that Victoria was just using Aaron for his money, but others defended their relationship. One user wrote, quote, you guys should really leave Victoria and Aaron alone. I get it if you guys don't like her. There is obviously things that aren't great about her, but keep those feelings to yourself and let Aaron be happy.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
He's a very nice person that deserves to be with someone at this stage of life. And he picked Victoria. That's his choice. Messaging her family is fucked up and way out of line. The blog shouldn't condone that."
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Fans of Aaron's would even comment on his pictures that he seemed happier than ever, and maybe that was the case for him. But it's safe to say that his wife Victoria was not happy in her marriage, because unbeknownst to Aaron, Victoria had a secret pen pal named Grant Amato, a man who was in prison for brutally murdering his entire family.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Upon seeing Sylvie, Grant was immediately attracted to her. He wanted to get to know her more. But in order to talk to these girls online, you have to pay them. After all, this is their career. So Grant ended up sending her some money, and from there, they started a conversation. Following this, Grant felt a connection to Sylvie.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
In such a depressing time in his life, she brought him some happiness. So over the next few months, he continued to pay her for her time. During their conversations, Grant lied to Sylvie about many aspects of his life. He told her he drove a BMW, that he lived alone and that he was a successful gamer on Twitch. But in reality, Grant drove a Honda, lived with his parents and he was unemployed.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But to keep up with these appearances,
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
grant continued to lavish sylvie with money and gifts in order to have a private conversation with her he had to purchase these tokens and at times he would buy around 600 tokens in a single night each of these tokens were about a dollar so there were nights when he spent six hundred dollars just to talk to her but in his mind he and sylvie had a special connection grant was in love
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
However, Sylvie obviously didn't feel the same. And after a while, Grant started asking her to send pictures and videos free of charge.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
But obviously, Sylvie wasn't okay with that. She wasn't talking to Grant because she liked him. She was talking to him because that's her job. It's how she made her living. So she wasn't going to give him anything for free. But this was a problem for Grant. He didn't have a lot of money to spend because he was unemployed. So soon enough, he started stealing money from his parents and his brother
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
just so he could keep talking to her. And surprisingly, over the course of just a few months, Grant had stolen over $200,000 from his family. He had stole around 60,000 from his brother, Cody, and 150,000 from his father. And he had even taken out a loan on his parents' house. Now for a while, his parents didn't know what was going on, but of course they would eventually find out.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And it was through these projects where Nick would meet the other future member of Ghost Adventures, Zach Bagans.
Murder In America
201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
For Chad and Margaret, they thought they were doing what was best for Grant. I'm sure they figured that kicking him out of the house would help him get his life together. If he was having to pay for his bills, his own rent and food, then maybe he'd understand how reckless he had been with their money. But that was not Grant's mindset.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
On January 24th, 2019, the day after his parents kicked him out, Grant made his way back over to their house. At the time, his mother Margaret was sitting at her desk on her computer. She had no idea that Grant had snuck his way inside or that he was creeping up behind her with a gun in his hand. In that moment, Grant lifted the gun and he shot his mother in the back of her head.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And from there, he waited for his father to come home. When Chad finally arrived, he was unaware that his wife had been shot dead within the study. And as he walked into the kitchen, he suddenly encountered his son Grant.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
the son that he had just kicked out of their house i'm sure chad figured that grant was there to negotiate maybe to see if he could come back home but soon enough grant lifted his gun and he fired two shots into his dad's body but once chad was dead grant wasn't finished just yet he still had one more family member to kill, his brother Cody.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Using his father's phone, Grant texted his brother and told him to come right home after work. And later that night, he would. Cody pulled his vehicle into the garage. And when Grant heard the garage door open, he grabbed his gun. Cody, still wearing his nurse's scrubs, grabbed his things and started making his way inside when he suddenly saw his brother standing in the threshold.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And just like his parents, Grant gunned him down. In that moment, he had successfully murdered his entire family, but as if he couldn't get any worse, Grant then decided to stage the murders as if it was the work of his brother Cody. He placed the gun near Cody's body, making it look like he had killed himself after murdering his parents. And then from there, Grant fled the scene.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
This story was huge at the time. The fact that someone could murder their entire family over a girl he met online was hard to believe. And when you think about all of the money he stole, all the lies and the secrecy, it's disturbing to think about. Then the pictures of the crime scene started circulating online.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I remember seeing those, the pictures of Margaret at her computer, Chad lying in the kitchen, and his brother Cody curled up near the garage, how their blood covered the floors. And to think that this was the work of their family member, someone that they loved and provided for his entire life. And in the end, their lives were taken over something so stupid. Grant Amato was undoubtedly a monster.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And this was the man that Victoria Goodwin started a secret pen pal relationship with. After the murders, Paramount Plus did a three-part documentary on the crime, and Victoria watched it. However, instead of being disgusted with Grant, Like most people are when hearing this story, she wasn't. In fact, soon after watching it, around May of 2024, she figured out how to get in contact with him.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Now at the time, her husband Aaron had been traveling to film the 29th season of Ghost Adventures, so Victoria had some time to herself. And during that time, she and Grant started writing to each other. With each letter that Victoria sent out, the two were growing closer, and eventually, the letters went from friendly to romantic.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And all the while, Aaron Goodwin was completely unaware of what his wife was doing. He was away filming for ghost adventures. He was providing for them. And this is how Victoria repaid him. And from looking at social media, it's clear that Aaron was still in love with his wife. In 2025, he posted a picture of them kissing after a round of mini golf.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Victoria even posted a picture of his hand on her leg with the caption, quote, cuddle puddle with my boys, end quote. She was clearly still playing the role of the loving wife. However, unbeknownst to Erin, several months before these photos were posted, Victoria had been texting Grant about hiring a hitman to kill her husband. On October 2nd, 2024, she and Grant had the following conversation.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Am I a bad person? Why? Because I chose to end his existence, not divorce.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
I'm so anxious lolol. I can't believe it's happening. Like, how did I get to this point?
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Grant Amato was sitting in his prison cell, anxiously waiting to hear the news of Erin's murder. Victoria was doing the same, but at her home in Nevada. But the two would wait and wait and wait with no news from Gordo. Grant was clearly scared. He even texted Gordo and told him to block his number, I guess so they couldn't trace it back to him. But later that night,
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Florida corrections officers stormed into Grant's cell and confiscated his contraband cell phone. And from there, he and Victoria's entire plan was discovered. Now we have no information on what happened with the hit man or even who he was, but luckily, Erin Goodwin made it out alive. Their plan had failed.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And over the next few months, investigators would begin building their case against Victoria. But I can't help but wonder what was going through her mind at the time. She and Grant had been texting back and forth for months. Then the very night that her husband was supposed to get murdered, he suddenly stopped all communication with her.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And from there, Victoria went on with her life as if nothing happened. Eventually, Erin would come home from his filming trip and she pretended like everything was fine, like she didn't just try to have him killed. A few weeks later, she even posted a picture of Erin on her social media with the caption, quote, "'Does anyone recognize this guy?' He cute.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
On New Year's, she posted a picture of them kissing. She posted him again on Valentine's Day. To the outside world, Victoria and Aaron had a great marriage, but Victoria's beautiful life was about to come crashing down.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Now, at the time of Victoria's arrest, Aaron was actually in Los Angeles filming for Ghost Adventures, and he still had no idea what was going on. But soon enough, he would get a call that would forever change his life. That day... a Clark County police officer called him to let him know that Victoria was in jail for putting out a hit on him.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
And according to TMZ, Ghost Adventures had actually been in the middle of filming when Aaron got the call, so it's all on camera. Now, Zach Bagans has since stated that he's not sure if that footage will ever be released. As you can imagine, this was a very sensitive moment in Aaron's life. He was completely shocked. This was his wife, someone he thought he knew, but clearly that wasn't the case.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So Nick decided to put his passions together, film and the paranormal.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Over the past few weeks, everyone following this case has been waiting to see what will happen with Victoria Goodwin. And on April 12th, she pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit murder. In exchange for a guilty plea, prosecutors agreed to drop the charge of solicitation to commit murder. And she's scheduled to be sentenced on June 24th of this year.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Right now, she faces anywhere from two to 10 years in prison.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
So together, Nick Groff, Zach Bagans, and Aaron Goodwin traveled around the country filming at some of the most haunted locations in America, and they would find exactly what they were looking for, ghosts. Nick said that throughout their filming, they had many haunted experiences, all of which were captured on their cameras.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
When they were finally finished with their trip, Nick started looking through all of the footage and he couldn't believe what they found.
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201: NEVADA - The "Ghost Adventures" Murders (feat. Nick Groff)
Now, over the years, as ghost adventures got bigger and bigger, they ended up meeting a lot of people within their industry, from psychics to demonologists. And eventually, they were introduced to a couple of married investigators named Debbie and Mark Constantino. Debbie and Mark were EVP specialists.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
31-year-old Jessica Kelly was actually Fabian's cousin, and on August 15, 2016, she was released from prison. Now, like many people in this story, Jessica had a long rap sheet. Her convictions included two felony charges of trafficking controlled substances, DWI, assault upon a peace officer, resisting arrest, and conspiracy to commit criminal sexual penetration.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
She got that while in prison where she was apparently planning to sexually assault a female inmate. So, a real stand-up citizen here. But by 2016, Jessica had been in and out of prison for over a decade. And now she was free.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
On August 21, 2016, Jessica Kelly's loved ones decided to throw a huge family barbecue for her to celebrate her release from prison. But the family made sure not to invite Fabian. You see, over the years, he had been a problem at these family get-togethers. He was known to have a volatile temper. He had even threatened some family members in the past, so they chose not to invite him.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But when Fabian found out about this, he was furious, and he decided that he was going to show up anyway. That evening, everyone was drinking and having a good time at the barbecue when all of a sudden, Fabian showed up. He was clearly angry about not being invited, so they confronted him and asked him to leave.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But immediately upon doing so, a fight ensued, and Fabian ended up fighting a pregnant woman who punched him so hard he got a black eye. Following this fight, he was even angrier than he was before, and as he left the house, he screamed out that he was going to come back with his brothers.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, according to court documents, Fabian's brothers were founding members of the TCK gang in New Mexico, a gang that has had an extremely violent, homicidal history. And apparently, Fabian and his brothers were still active in the gang. So, after he threatened to bring his brothers to the barbecue, the family was worried.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
They even put some armed men outside to guard the doors, just in case he came back. Now, throughout that entire night, Fabian kept texting his family at the barbecue, threatening them. And they had every right to be frightened, because cell phone records would later show that Fabian called his brothers over 20 times that evening. He was also researching gun purchases.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But luckily, Fabian never came back to the family barbecue that night. However, I think the story goes to show just how dangerous he was, how volatile. And this is the man that Michelle Martins chose to have a relationship with. The man she let move into her home. Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
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EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
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Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But let's get back to the story.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
that week michelle had also taken jessica and fabian to this casino in town it was around midnight on a school night but victoria was in the car with them while michelle and victoria were in the car in the casino parking lot fabian and jessica decided to break into some cars eventually a security guard approached them so they quickly ran back to the car where michelle and victoria were waiting for them and from there they made their way back home
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
as you can see michelle knew that fabian and jessica were bad news yet she continued to hang out with them she continued to let them stay at her apartment and during that time fabian and jessica were doing a lot of meth together right there in the apartment with michelle's young children however the meth was making jessica extremely paranoid on the night of august 22nd jessica even went into michelle's bedroom and woke fabian up
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
She asked him if he would read the Bible with her because she was so scared, but it didn't seem to help because the following day was August 23rd, a day that would change everything.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Now, believe it or not, Michelle's mother, Pat, had actually been calling Michelle that entire afternoon. She saw Michelle's text about picking up Victoria from the bus stop, and she was willing to do it. But Michelle wasn't answering her phone calls. So it's not like Jessica was the only person who could have picked Victoria up that day. Michelle's mom easily could have too.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
But they decided to give that responsibility to Jessica instead. which is crazy because not only had Jessica been smoking meth, but they had both seen how paranoid she had been that day, and still, they decided to leave a 10-year-old in her care. At 3 p.m., Michelle and Fabian made a trip to the liquor store.
Murder In America
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From there, they went to a friend's house, and while they were there, Michelle sent a text to Jessica.
Murder In America
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But Jessica didn't respond to her text, so a few minutes later, she sent another text.
Murder In America
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But again, no answer. Jessica had been too paranoid to check her texts. Back in the apartment, she even decided to keep the apartment's front door open so if someone started walking up the stairs, she would be able to see them. Clearly, Jessica was spiraling.
Murder In America
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This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
At 5 p.m., Victoria spoke to her grandparents over the phone. John and Pat Martins had called to wish her a happy birthday, and according to them, Victoria sounded happy. She told them all about how her day went, how she ate cupcakes with her class, and how they sang her happy birthday. Then from there, they told her they loved her, and the call ended.
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They had no idea that that would be the very last conversation they would ever have with their granddaughter. A few minutes after hanging up the phone, Fabian and Michelle finally returned back to the apartment. I'm sure Victoria was happy to see her mother. But sadly, after just a few minutes of being there, they left again to go pick up drugs. And this time they were gone for about an hour.
Murder In America
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Now, inside the apartment, Victoria walked over to Jessica and said, Did you know it's my 10th birthday? Jessica would later say that she felt bad for Victoria. No one had celebrated her. Her own mother had only been home a couple of minutes before leaving. So, Jessica pulled out her wallet and gave Victoria $45, which is like a million dollars to a 10-year-old.
Murder In America
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However, that too would soon be taken away from her.
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It's August of 2006 in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and 25-year-old Michelle Martins is just weeks away from giving birth. But if you were to have asked her, she would have denied being pregnant at all. For whatever reason, Michelle wouldn't acknowledge the fact that she was with child. Maybe it's because the baby's father wasn't in her life. Or maybe she just wasn't ready to become a mom.
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Early that next morning at 4.30 a.m., August 24th, there was some commotion outside the Arroyo Villas apartment complex. Michelle Martin's neighbors opened up their front door, and there they saw Michelle with a huge bloody gash on her forehead. Standing next to her was her boyfriend, Fabian. The couple told their neighbors that their roommate, Jessica Kelly, had attacked them with a tire iron.
Murder In America
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Even worse, Michelle's daughter, Victoria, was still inside the apartment with Jessica. So from here, they called 911. Here's that 911 call, but it's a little hard to hear.
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But Michelle wouldn't be able to deny it forever. On August 23, 2006, she started having contractions. And while she was at her house, all by herself, Michelle delivered a beautiful little girl named Victoria. Michelle called her her miracle child because despite not going to an OBGYN or taking prenatal vitamins, Victoria still came out as healthy as could be.
Murder In America
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However, things weren't always easy for them. According to Michelle, Victoria's father wanted nothing to do with his daughter, so they were all on their own. Now, Michelle was born in 1981, and she was described as having a low IQ and was known to be extremely trusting and vulnerable. Originally from New York, Michelle moved to Texas before eventually settling in New Mexico.
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But luckily for her, she did have the help of her parents, which she was really grateful for, given she was a single mother.
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But from here, the detectives want to know what the hell happened. There is a 10-year-old little girl murdered and dismembered in the apartment with three grown adults. And just before this, one of those adults tried to kill the other two with a tire iron. So, how did we get here? When the detectives ask Fabian this, he breaks down in tears, telling them that he has no idea what happened.
Murder In America
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He said he and Michelle went to sleep that night, and the next thing he knew, his cousin Jessica was in their bedroom trying to kill them. He said he didn't even know that Victoria had been murdered, but the detectives weren't buying it. In fact, they spoke to some neighbors who reported that the night before, they were awoken to sounds of screaming and banging coming from apartment 808.
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They also heard things dragging around. So, the fact that they heard that when Fabian supposedly didn't just doesn't add up.
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If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
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On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact.
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I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show. than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
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Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
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The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
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Now, at the time of Fabian's interview, Michelle Martins is also being interviewed, and she's being a lot more open about what happened on August 23rd, her daughter's 10th birthday.
Murder In America
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So, after watching her daughter get dismembered, Michelle said that she made everyone tacos. Then she went into her room to get some sleep. Disturbingly, Michelle also admits that she and Fabian had sex that night, after the dismemberment.
Murder In America
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That year, Michelle started dating a man named David Hernandez, and over the course of a few months, he started spending a lot of time with Michelle and her children.
Murder In America
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Michelle said that after that, she went to sleep. The next thing she knew, Jessica was in her room holding a tire iron. According to Michelle, Jessica feared that she would tell someone what happened. And while in the bedroom, Jessica chillingly asked her, Do you believe in God? Michelle said that she knew right then that Jessica was trying to kill her.
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Now, we don't know if Michelle knew about her new boyfriend's criminal record, but a few years prior, in May of 2013, David had been driving around when he spotted a four-year-old girl in a parking lot, and at that moment, he decided to kidnap her. David snatched the little girl up and sped off down the road. But luckily, the police were nearby.
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They ended up catching up to him, but David didn't pull over. He continued running from the police until he ultimately crashed his vehicle. Now, following this, he ended up getting charged with kidnapping, child abuse, and auto theft. But surprisingly, he was never actually convicted of anything.
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Apparently, about a month after the incident, the charges were dropped after the four-year-old girl and her family moved out of state. And I guess because they weren't going to testify against him, David Hernandez walked free.
Murder In America
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The detectives then confront Michelle with a disturbing statement, that this wasn't the first time she had let men rape her daughter.
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Following the murder, Albuquerque Police Chief Gordon Elder Jr. stated, This homicide is the most gruesome act of evil I have ever seen in my career, a complete disregard for human life and a betrayal by a mother. Now, soon after Michelle Martin's arrest, her parents found out what had happened and they were completely shocked.
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They had just spoken to Victoria on the phone to wish her a happy birthday. So, never in a million years did they expect to get this news. And when they heard the details, they were beside themselves. According to them, Michelle had been a good mother, but all of that changed when Fabian and Jessica stepped into the picture.
Murder In America
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Her parents said, Michelle didn't change until these people inducted themselves into her life. What kind of power they had over her, I don't know.
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we didn't know our daughter to be anybody that would do something like this and if there's evidence and she's found guilty then she deserves to be punished as for victoria they claim that she never mentioned sexual or physical abuse and always seemed happy they believed she may have stayed quiet because of her love for her mother pat stated it's probably why she never said nothing she didn't want to get her in trouble
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now when the word spread that a 10 year old girl had been brutally murdered the community of albuquerque was completely devastated on august 26th friends and neighbors built a memorial underneath a tree outside the arroyo villa's apartment it was filled with teddy bears flowers and candles people hugged prayed and cried as they remembered the life of victoria some even sang happy birthday as it was the day of her birthday when she had been brutally killed
Murder In America
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Soon after, another memorial was erected at Petroglyph Elementary School, and school officials issued a statement that read, Victoria is in our thoughts and prayers as we hold our children just a little tighter on this sad day. On August 29, 2016, hundreds gathered for a public funeral service for Victoria held at the Copper Point Church.
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Motorcycle officers escorted a white hearse that contained her remains.
Murder In America
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When confronted with this new evidence that proved Michelle and Fabian were not present during Victoria's rape and murder, the DA's office had no choice but to drop their murder charges.
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Now, even though they had still not caught Victoria's killer, Fabian Gonzalez would go to trial for his part in the crime. As with Michelle Martin's, the first-degree murder and rape charges were dropped, but he still faced charges of reckless child abuse resulting in death, tampering with evidence, and conspiracy to tamper with evidence.
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And like with any trial, the prosecution would paint the story of what they believed happened. And one of their witnesses was Jessica Kelly, Fabian's cousin. So, based on what was said at trial, we're going to go back to the night of August 23rd, 2016.
Murder In America
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Jessica said that she waited a few minutes before going into Victoria's bedroom. But when she did, she said that she saw Victoria on the ground in front of her TV. She was lying on her back. And at first glance, it looked like she was sleeping. But Jessica said that she checked her pulse and there was none.
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Now, when asked why she didn't call the police, Jessica said that she had a bad relationship with law enforcement. After a decade of being in and out of prison, she figured that they would just pin it on her, so she didn't call for help. She also said that she was afraid the man would come back to hurt her children. So, she just left Victoria there, dead on her bedroom floor.
Murder In America
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But eventually, she heard Fabian and Michelle outside. Out in the parking lot of the Arroyo Villa's apartment complex, Fabian and Michelle were sitting in the car, enjoying their meth high as they listened to music. Upon hearing them, Jessica said that she ran into Victoria's room, wrapped her up in a blanket, and then brought her outside. Now, Fabian and Michelle would corroborate that next part.
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They said that as they were sitting in the car, they saw Jessica come out, holding Victoria in that blanket. She didn't come out to the car, she was just standing on the second story, holding her. But because they were so high on drugs, they didn't realize Victoria was dead. They just thought she was sleeping.
Murder In America
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So from here, Jessica said that she took over. Fabian went into the bedroom to check on Michelle while she started cleaning up. She said she wiped the blood off Victoria's body and she even put her pink pajamas back on. She then wrapped her body up in some trash bags, then a blanket, and she carried Victoria over to the bathroom.
Murder In America
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After placing her in the bathtub, Jessica got a bowl and filled it with soapy water. She then went to Victoria's room and attempted to clean the blood out of the carpet. From there, she put some bloody towels into the washing machine. Now, at this point, Fabian came out of the bedroom and Jessica said that he cleaned off the bloody knives and then put them back into the knife block.
Murder In America
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But investigators would later find pieces of flesh still attached to it, as well as Fabian's fingerprints. By this point, they had been dismembering Victoria for hours, and it's here where they decided that they were going to dump her body out in the mesa. However, those plans would soon change. In her paranoid state, Jessica said she lost it.
Murder In America
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After hours of dismembering Victoria, with her blood still soaked into the carpet, Jessica feared that it would only be a matter of time until the police figured out what happened and she was sent right back to prison. So, right then, she decided that she was going to kill Fabian and Michelle. In court, Jessica explained her reasoning behind this.
Murder In America
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So Jessica went into Michelle's bedroom and asked for their phones. I guess she didn't want them calling the police as she was about to murder them, but obviously Fabian and Michelle were confused. However, they did give them to Jessica and she placed their phones in her back pocket and grabbed the tire iron. Then Jessica looked at Michelle and asked, do you believe in God?
Murder In America
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Before bashing in her head. According to Jessica, that's when she told Michelle that her daughter was dead. And from there, the two continued to struggle for a couple of minutes before Fabian took the tire iron and he and Michelle ran outside. As they did, neighbors heard some commotion and within minutes the police were on their way. But they just thought it was some sort of domestic dispute.
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And this wasn't the only time that someone had sent in a tip about the well-being of Michelle's children. In fact, on March 14, 2015, about two weeks before the tip about David was sent in, someone else had called a child abuse hotline to report that both Victoria and her brother Matthew had poor hygiene, dirty clothes, and that they had been improperly disciplined by a grandparent.
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They had no idea what they were about to walk into. Back inside the apartment, Jessica was spiraling. And here's what happened next.
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Victoria's loved ones were happy with the verdict, but Fabian's defense clearly wasn't. They believed that Jessica Kelly had fooled everyone. His defense attorney would later say, and she's probably laughing now at the fact that the state of New Mexico accepted her, her version of what happened. Now, during Fabian's sentencing, the prosecution wanted the maximum sentence of 40 years.
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But before handing down the sentence, Judge Leos allowed Victoria's grandfather, John Martens, to read his victim impact statement.
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now this report also said that michelle and a grandparent consumed alcohol while caring for the children once again the report was handed over to the albuquerque police department but this time they actually looked into it according to apd they went to the children's school and separately interviewed both victoria and matthew and during their interviews they found no signs of physical sexual or emotional abuse there were no bruises no dirty clothes and the children appeared to be clean and well taken care of
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Now as for Victoria's mom, Michelle Martins, many people couldn't understand why she would have given a false confession. Why would she tell police she was letting Fabian and Jessica rape her daughter while she watched if it wasn't true? Why implicate yourself in her murder if that wasn't true?
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Well, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Wellner determined that Michelle had certain personality traits that made her susceptible to false confessions.
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dr welner also found michelle to be extremely vulnerable and described her as a people pleaser he went on to say that she had a low iq and a history of trauma and drug abuse her family members confirmed that michelle was known to lie and she had told one major lie while she was pregnant with victoria as she had denied she was pregnant until the day she gave birth
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during her confession it appeared as if michelle was just agreeing with the detectives and not providing facts on her own dr wellner believed that michelle did not understand that she was incriminating herself in the crime when she claimed to have witnessed the murder he said she was falsely saying she was there she was falsely saying she saw things falsely saying she heard things she was saying things while believing she was actually placing blame on other people which she was but she was also including herself in the responsibility
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On June 29th, 2018, Michelle Martins ended up taking a plea deal. She pleaded guilty to one count of reckless child abuse resulting in death. DA Torres stated that although Michelle was not a murderer, she did contribute to an unsafe environment for her children.
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an environment that allowed her daughter to be killed, and he believed she needed to be held accountable for her responsibility in the crime. So in November of 2022, Michelle Martins was sentenced to 12 years in prison. So now we get to the last person in the story, Jessica Kelly. And in my opinion, she's the biggest monster of them all.
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When she took the stand at Fabian's trial, she cried because she said she loved her cousin and testifying against him was hard for her. But when it came to talking about what happened to Victoria, Jessica Kelly showed no emotion whatsoever.
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Interestingly, in the following year, in 2016, Michelle Martins actually made two reports to the child abuse hotline about her own son, Matthew. In those reports, she alleged that while under the care of Matthew's father, he was left with an unknown babysitter, and that he had poor hygiene. Once again, APD went to their school to interview him, but they found no evidence of abuse.
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Jessica Kelly's 44-year sentence means she will likely spend the rest of her life in prison. She will not be eligible for release until 2066, when she's 81 years old.
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The official report stated, In the course of three investigations, both Victoria and her sibling were interviewed at school and at home. Each child was interviewed separately from their sibling, and all interviews of the children were conducted outside the presence of Michelle Martins and the sibling's biological father.
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Both children were asked questions about physical and sexual abuse, and neither child made any disclosures of physical or sexual abuse in any of the three investigations. So, based on these reports, there did seem to be some instability within their family, but nothing serious enough to remove Victoria and Matthew from their home.
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then there's that prison phone call she made to her mother where she said that that unknown man needs an attorney now again these are just our opinions we aren't experts and we don't have all the answers here but we can't help but speculate when it comes to a case like this especially since the person who raped and murdered victoria is still out there and we're interested to hear what y'all our listeners think what are your theories let us know on our social media or by commenting on our episode itself
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A later internal review would claim that CYFD investigated the claims thoroughly and in accordance with state policy and procedure.
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The Albuquerque Police Department is urging anyone with information to contact Crimestoppers at 505-843-7867. And in Victoria's honor, this week we will also be making a donation to Prevent Child Abuse America, an incredible organization that aims to protect our nation's youth. You can find them at preventchildabuse.org.
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Hey everybody, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Murder in America. Weirdly enough, I am recording this episode from Berlin, Germany, so I'm overseas right now.
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This is an absolutely horrific story, and Courtney and I hate having to tell these stories and go through these crimes, but we clearly have so many problems in America, cultural problems, problems with the law and how the law is enforced, and how these things keep happening is just mind-blowing to me.
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And the project that I'm working on right now deals with these sorts of things on a massive scale. So yeah, sometimes you just read through these episodes and I know you guys listen to them and it just leaves you feeling a little empty inside. But if you enjoy the work that we do here on Murder in America and you want to help support the show, please consider joining us on Patreon.
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On Patreon, you can get early ad-free access to all of our main feed episodes. So if you don't like the ads, join us on Patreon. And also, if you love the show and you're out of episodes and you've never signed up for Patreon, you can get access to an entire library of bonus episodes immediately when you sign up. These episodes will never go live on our main feed.
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They're really, really important stories that we're continuing to tell on there. And Courtney and I just want to say thank you guys so much for supporting our work there. We have a huge team behind the scenes and you guys have helped so much. Don't forget to follow us on social media at Murder in America to see photos from every case that we cover.
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And once again, leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Those are extremely important. They help us so much, and we love hearing from y'all. Thank you so much for tuning in this week. I know this was a heavy one, but to be fair, all these stories are heavy in their own ways. It's Colin here, and I'll catch y'all next week.
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Michelle must have known that her family wouldn't approve of this because she kept her new relationship a secret, which, according to Michelle, was Fabian's idea. But that summer, there was one instance where Michelle's parents came over unannounced, while Fabian was in the apartment.
Murder In America
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When Michelle looked through the peephole and saw her parents at the door, she rushed Fabian over to her bedroom and made him hide in a closet until her parents left.
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EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
maybe she knew that her parents wouldn't approve of him or maybe she was scared that they'd look into his criminal record because of course fabian gonzalez was also a criminal his rap sheet dated all the way back to 2004 and included charges of felony child abuse battery involving great bodily harm driving while intoxicated and resisting arrest
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
In August of 2014, Fabian was charged with assaulting his girlfriend as she drove with their young child in the backseat. In February of 2015, Fabian pled guilty to two misdemeanor charges and received two years supervised probation under the New Mexico Department of Corrections.
Murder In America
EP. 202: NEW MEXICO - RAPED & MURDERED ON HER 10TH BIRTHDAY: The Story of Victoria Martens
Alex Sanchez, the New Mexico Department of Corrections Deputy Secretary of Administration, told KRQE in August 2016, �We were not aware of this plea agreement until this morning it came to our attention. We never received the documentation to say he had entered into this agreement.�
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But it only seemed to get worse from here. On May 20th, 1982, George was involved in a racially charged argument with an African American crew member. According to reports, George assaulted the man and also refused to take a lawful command from the captain of the ship, which was a deal breaker for them.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Following this incident, George was suspended for six months, then placed on probation for an entire year.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
So as you can see, George had a hard time getting along with people wherever he went. Throughout the years, his coworkers would try to befriend him, asking him questions about his family and background, but George refused to let anyone get close to him. At work, he had a reputation of being a hard worker, but after getting into that heated racial argument, no one wanted to work with him anymore.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Many of his coworkers felt like they were walking on eggshells around him, as if at any moment, George would snap, which is what a lot of people said about him throughout his life. Even his old roommate, a man named James Dunlap. James would later say that when George would come home from work, he would just smoke marijuana all day and angrily play the drums for hours on end.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Here is James describing the kind of person George was.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, luckily for George, he was making good money at his job, despite him not getting along with people. In fact, he earned about $5,000 a month. So with that money, he lived pretty lavishly. He bought himself a 1987 blue Ford Ranger. He bought his mother a Cadillac. And when he wasn't working, George spent a lot of time traveling overseas.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It's been reported that he specifically liked to travel to the Philippines and Thailand, and he would go there to hire sex workers. His acquaintances would later say, quote, it was because he could do what he liked with them. No questions, no judgment, no protests. no blonde hair," end quote. And he always returned home with trinkets from his travels and dozens of rolls of film.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It was also known that George loved to stay in San Pedro at this specific hotel called Hotel Cabrillo, and he would always request to stay in room 223, a room that overlooked this trash-filled alleyway. But while staying in this hotel, George took an interest in one of the maids named Raquel Burch. Raquel would later say that George was a regular there.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Sometimes he would just stay for one night and other times he would stay for weeks on end. Raquel said that George was a strange man and it was clear that he had a hard time speaking to women. But anytime she would come clean his room, he would just intently stare at her. At one point, Raquel asked if he had a girlfriend, and he told her he didn't.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
She then asked if he liked Mexican girls, and he replied, quote, "'You're nice. "'I like Mexican girls. "'I don't like American girls. "'They play with your feelings.'" Now, George Henard was considered to be conventionally attractive. He was 6'1", 185 pounds, athletic, and he had thick black hair. Women were no doubt attracted to him, but there was also something off about him.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
There were tables flipped over, debris covering the ground, and about a dozen glass ketchup bottles had catapulted onto the hood of the truck. In the seconds after the crash, everyone stood up in confusion. Surely this was just a horrible accident. Maybe someone had a medical emergency while driving in the parking lot. But soon enough, everyone would realize that this was no accident at all.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It was something about his eyes. After starting a conversation with George, women couldn't help but notice that his eyes were dark and distant. Almost like when he looked at you, he was looking right through you. It was intense and unsettling. He was also said to be quiet, but not in a peaceful way. It was more of an uncomfortable, heavy quiet that left people feeling uneasy.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Raquel Birch recalled this about him too. At any time she was around him, she would remember what her mother told her, quote, "'Be careful of the quiet ones, "'because they are the worst,' end quote."
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Many people who crossed paths with George all described him the same way. Dark, distant, quiet, but also explosive and angry. Character traits that seemed to follow him throughout his life. But the mid-80s were a particularly hard time for George, especially because his family was falling apart.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, shortly after he had moved out of his parents' home to pursue his career, his family had moved from New Mexico to Killeen, Texas. Dr. Hennard had been transferred to Fort Hood in Killeen as the commanding officer at Darnell Army Community Hospital, and upon learning that they were moving to Texas, they purchased a large home in nearby Belton.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It was a massive five-bedroom brick colonial home that had been built in the 1940s, and everyone in the area called it the mansion. The Hennards' new house really stuck out in the neighborhood, as all of the other houses were smaller and more modest, but not theirs. Their mansion was beautiful, both inside and out. The interior was decorated in expensive ornate Queen Anne furnishings.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
And as always, Dr. Hennard maintained his sense of order with every single item being in its designated space. And everything at all times was spotless. From the outside looking in, the Hennards looked like your all-American family. The father was a doctor. They had a huge home, money, and the respect of their community. But soon enough, this facade would all come crashing down.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
As it turned out, Dr. Henard had an affinity for younger women. And in 1983, he and his wife would officially divorce. In addition to this, he was also involved in a pretty big scandal.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
You see, his partner at the medical facility was named Dr. Gary Hassman, and he was sent to prison for selling cocaine, and he had been involved in a wrongful death lawsuit where a person had been given blood tainted with AIDS. So following this, Dr. Hennard had to go before a review board where his entire career was questioned.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It was also discovered that he had allowed unlicensed personnel to work at the clinic. So, things weren't looking good for him. At the end of everything, Dr. Hennard was put on probation for five years, which really hurt his practice. So, as you can see, this was not an easy time for the Hennard family.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George was having to deal with the fact that his parents were divorced and that his dad's career was falling apart.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But despite everything, he kept his head down and stayed focused on work. In May of 1989, George got a promotion and he started working on a ship called the Green Wave. His promotion would allow him to supervise the deck crew and make sure that everyone worked to meet his standards. But it seems as if George got a bit too confident in his role.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
In fact, one night while working on the ship, he pulled out a baggie of marijuana and rolled a joint in front of some crew members. They would later say that he was boasting about how he had smuggled drugs onto the ship and how he would never get caught.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But that wouldn't be the case because on the morning of May 11th, the ship's captain marched into the cabin and began searching through his things. and in one of George's shoes, they found the baggie of marijuana. Apparently, one of the sailors had told on George. From here, the Coast Guard was notified and they brought George in for an interrogation.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Because when the dust cleared, a man emerged from the truck holding two semi-automatic pistols. And over the next few minutes, he would walk through the restaurant killing as many people as he possibly could. What had started as a normal, peaceful day at Luby's quickly ended in chaos and tragedy.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
However, he refused to answer any of their questions about where it came from, who it belonged to, or why it was on the ship. in the end george's papers were confiscated and he was forced to enter a drug treatment program in houston texas on july 14 1989 and apparently once he was released george and his father dr hennard got into this huge falling out
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Dr. Henard believed that his son was schizophrenic with a split personality disorder. However, George didn't seem to like this label. And from that moment on, his relationship with his father was strained.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story. Shout us out on X. Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But let's get back to the story. On August 3rd, George was scheduled for a hearing with the administrative law judge Thomas McElligot for two charges. Misconduct for narcotic possession on board ship and use of dangerous drugs.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Under the advice of his lawyer, David McCormick, George admitted to this wrongdoing and told the judge that he had a serious marijuana addiction that dated back to his adolescence in New Mexico. He stated that the only time he didn't want to use drugs was when he was out to sea, and that being caught with it on the green wave was a blessing in disguise.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George said that when he was caught, it was at that moment that he realized he had a serious problem. He said, "...I could continue using drugs or continue sailing. It's either or. I'd be of more use out there working on those ships than here beached without a thing to do. I'm willing to do anything if I can continue to sail."
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Two and a half months later, Judge McElligot officially ruled on the matter and decided that George Joe Henard would never sail again. His certificates, licenses, and the documents for sailing would all be revoked. However, George would not go to jail or pay a fine, and the indictment would never go on any permanent criminal record. And ultimately, the case would be sealed forever.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But those who knew George personally would later say that this decision was the beginning of his downfall.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Following this, in 1989, George moved to a small apartment in Austin, Texas, and with no money coming in, he was forced to work odd jobs. He tried working as a steam cleaner and a carpenter, but these new careers were always short-lived. It was difficult for him to go to work, to stay motivated. And soon enough, he started draining his savings account.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George was extremely depressed during this time. Working out at sea was the one thing he was good at. It was his whole identity, and now it was gone. Eventually, he answered an ad in the newspaper for a local band who needed a drummer. So one afternoon, he met up with them at a rehearsal studio called The Crow's Nest.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, the keyboardist Frank Laszlo would later say that George wouldn't have been their first pick, but they were desperate for a drummer, so they hired him on. But almost immediately, they too noticed that something was off with him. George would often sit by himself, refusing to interact with anyone. And they said that he was especially weird around females.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Around the restaurant floor, amongst the overturned tables and plates of food, were the bodies of 23 people, making it one of the deadliest mass shootings in our country's history. So this is the story of the 1991 Luby's Massacre. I'm Courtney Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
However, they did take note that George often frequented a massage parlor on I-35. And they suspect that he was going there to receive sexual favors. It's been said by many people who knew George that he often hired sex workers. So it's safe to say that that's what he was doing here.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But interestingly, George opened up to his band members about how he had placed a personal ad in the Austin Chronicle, hoping to find a female companion. He was disappointed that only one girl had responded to it, and she was white. George was an into white women. Now his bandmates would later say that George was strange. He could be aggressive and was constantly complaining about everything.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He liked to talk badly about the people in their community, calling everyone hicks. They also said that he was paranoid at times. On some days, George would come in and talk to his bandmates about how people in town were spying on him. and preventing him from getting a job. And he made it clear that he would one day be a sailor again.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He told his bandmates that despite the judge's ruling, he was going to appeal it. And soon enough, George truly thought that it was only a matter of time until he was back out at sea for work.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George's bandmates said that he was sort of a true crime enthusiast. He would often sit in his apartment smoking weed, watching shows like America's Most Wanted and Unsolved Mysteries for hours on end. They also said that when he found a song he liked, he would play it nonstop. One in particular that George would listen to on repeat was the 1976 hit by Steely Dan called Don't Take Me Alive.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The lyrics were dark. They described the story of a fugitive who had been caught in a standoff with law enforcement. The protagonist of the song refuses to surrender and even threatens to use dynamite if anyone tries to capture him. Now, this song was very popular at the time, and when George discovered it, he immediately wanted to play it for his band.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The keyboardist, Frank Laszlo, said that George rushed over to his place and played the song five times in a row. And although Frank did like the beat, he didn't understand why George was so obsessed with it. In hindsight, it seems as if the lyrics may have resonated with him.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Another odd encounter was when the two men were driving in George's Ford Ranger. On the radio was a broadcast about the serial killer Ted Bundy. Frank would later say that he made a comment about how many women Ted Bundy had murdered, and George surprisingly came to Bundy's defense.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He told Frank that he shouldn't be quick to judge someone, and that maybe Ted had a good reason for why he murdered people.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
now at first frank thought he was joking surely no one would actually think that but george was dead serious he truly sympathized with serial killer ted bundy frank said that he was appalled and not long after this george would leave their band for good because in 1990 george's brother-in-law james schellenbarger would offer him a job opportunity doing construction in South Dakota.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
And you're listening to Murder in America. Before 1991, many people in the United States had never heard of Killeen, Texas. But today, some people claim that the city is cursed. Located about an hour north of Austin, the state's capital, Killeen is a town known for its military base, Fort Hood.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
James knew that George had fallen on hard times, and he wanted to help him out, so he offered him the job. And with nothing else going for him, George decided to take it.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The construction project was scheduled to run through the entire summer of 1990, but as soon as George arrived in South Dakota, he immediately started having problems with people. He was the kind of employee who complained any chance he could, and sometimes he would just flat out refuse to work.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But since he was family, his brother-in-law James, who got him the job, said that no one on the site liked him. But since he was family, he was constantly making excuses for George. But by the end of August 1990, James too had had enough of him. Apparently, James had asked George if he could start the cleanup at one of their sites, and George refused to do it.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
They then got into an argument where George told his brother-in-law to fuck off. And before they knew it, the two were physically fighting each other in front of the entire construction crew. Following this, George got into his car and drove all the way from South Dakota to his mother's house in Henderson, Nevada.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
When George showed up at his mom's doorstep, she welcomed him with open arms. Gianna always loved her children, and more than anything, she wanted them to be happy. And in her opinion, George just needed a woman in his life. So she actually set him up with one of her co-workers at a nail salon. Her name was Judy Lapeer, and she was excited to get to know George.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The two would go on a few dates, but in the beginning, she didn't think they were a great fit. Judy would later say that George was kind of awkward, and she could tell that he wasn't very confident around women, but she decided to give him another chance. Eventually, to her surprise, he actually started to loosen up, maybe a little too much.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Judy said that when George drank, he became a completely different person. The alcohol made him a bit aggressive. At one point during a date, the topic of marriage came up and George asked Judy how many times she had been married and she was honest. She told him she had been married twice before, but that they just didn't work out.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But as she's saying all of this, George is just kind of staring blankly ahead. He then broke his silence by saying, I think I'm gonna marry this young woman in Belton, Texas. I've never met her, but she lives down the street from my dad's house." Upon hearing this, Judy was shocked.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
She and George had been on several dates now, and here he is talking about marrying this woman in Texas that he's never even met. On another occasion, Judy recalled that while they were playing pool, George told her that the police had been following him and preventing him from getting a job. So naturally, Judy asked why he thought that, and he gave her a really bizarre story.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George said that while he was living in Texas, he rented this house on the lake and the neighborhood kids would sometimes come over and watch him play the drums. But he said that eventually the police got involved because they thought he was sexually abusing the children. Now in our research, I wasn't able to confirm if that story was true, but it seemed strange that George would make it up.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
And these weren't the only red flags that Judy noticed. Throughout her time with George, she also got to see the way he treated his mother, Gianna. According to Judy, he would often scream in his mother's face, calling her a bitch. The violent outbursts came out of nowhere. Eventually, George's behavior was too much for Judy, and she decided to call things off.
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EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
According to George's family, he was also known to ruin just about every holiday. During Christmas of 1990, George's half-sister Carla had gotten him a pair of sunglasses for his Christmas present, and upon opening it, he looked at her and said, I don't like these. Taken aback by his comment, Carla said that she could take them back and exchange them for another pair.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But for whatever reason, this made George angry. He started raising his voice at her, saying, Why would you even buy me sunglasses in the first place? From here, George's mom stepped in and reprimanded him for being so rude, and in response, George got into his truck and peeled out of the parking lot. He decided at that moment that he was going to spend Christmas at his dad's mansion instead.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
At that point, he and Dr. Henard still had a strained relationship, but at least he didn't have to be around for his mom and half-sister anymore. Now, the mansion in Belton, Texas had been in their family for years, but Dr. Henard was waiting to sell it. After his messy divorce with Gianna, it was too expensive to hold on to.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
So, George actually offered to help clean up the property before they put it up for sale. For months, George worked tirelessly cleaning things up around the property, and when he wasn't working on the house, he was often seen shirtless, washing his blue Ford Ranger in the front yard. The postman in the neighborhood, George Rakowitz, stated, He was a workaholic. He was always doing something.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
And perhaps George worked hard to maintain the property because he had other pressing things on his mind. On February 6th, 1991, he had received word from his attorney that despite his appeals, the court stuck by their ruling in his 1989 case involving that marijuana he smuggled aboard the ship. Meanwhile, George would never officially step foot on another sailing vessel again.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George was incredibly depressed to hear this news. He truly believed he could fight this and would one day get to do what he loved again. but that dream was over for him.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
To George, this news was just confirmation that he was being spied on and that someone out there was preventing him from success. He was growing more and more paranoid and he wanted to be able to protect himself just in case these people ever tried to come for him.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
and then just 12 days later george saw an advertisement for a gun store in henderson nevada it was called mike's gun house now mike's gun house wasn't your typical gun shop in fact the owner mike donahue sold all of his guns right out of his house that he shared with his family but on this day george walked right in and told mike that he wanted to purchase a firearm.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
However, he wasn't exactly sure what kind he wanted. So Mike gave him a recommendation and he pulled out a Glock 17, a nine millimeter pistol that is considered safe, easy, and quick. The magazine held 17 rounds. 18 if one is already loaded in the chamber. And with that, George was sold. All he had to do was hand over $420 cash, his Nevada driver's license, and fill out some paperwork.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Interestingly, one of the questions he was asked on the paperwork was whether or not he was addicted to marijuana, depressants, stimulants, or any other controlled substances. George happily checked no. But obviously, that was a lie. Now on paper, George Henard had a clean record. The one criminal case against him was sealed. So he was able to easily purchase the gun that day.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
However, the owner of the shop, Mike Donahue, would later say that he felt like something was off with George, though he couldn't quite put a finger on what it was. And to his surprise, Just a few weeks later, George would come back to his store to purchase another gun. This time, a stainless steel Ruger P89.
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Now this gun wasn't as powerful as the Glock, but George liked that it too could hold a lot of bullets in his chamber. Something about not having to reload the gun fascinated him. So that day, he hand over $345 for the second pistol. He now had both of the guns that he would later use in the Luby's mass shooting.
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A few months later, on June 1, 1991, George loaded up his blue Ford Ranger with his drum set, a loaded Glock 17, a loaded Ruger P89, and a case of Miller Hi-Life. From there, he drove down to the Lake Mead recreational area outside of Henderson, Nevada. His motivation for this trip was simply to get away and let his frustrations out.
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Once he arrived, he set up his drum set and began to play for an invisible crowd. Then, when he was finished, he set up his beer cans and practiced shooting them with his new guns. He wanted to feel the weapons out, to see how it felt to shoot them. He was pleasantly surprised at how easy it felt, how quickly the bullets came out. It was everything he wanted.
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At 7.30pm, George returned to his pickup truck on the shoulder of Hemingway Access Road and casually drank his beer on the side of the road. Eventually, he drank so much that he drunkenly passed out in the driver's seat. Soon after, a park ranger named Charles Luttrell saw him slouched over at the wheel and he approached his vehicle.
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Now, when George saw him at his driver's side window, he sobered up real quick and rolled down his window. Charles then asked George if he had been drinking, to which George said, From there, he was given a field sobriety test, which he ultimately failed. In addition to that, the officer also found his two loaded guns in the vehicle.
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So with that, George was taken to the Las Vegas detention center. Along the drive to jail, George continued to mumble odd things in the backseat, including a comment that someone was out to get him. Officer Luttrell asked him to repeat himself and George stated, I think they're out to get me. Females, white women, they're out to get me. That's a conspiracy.
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The officer likely played it off as some drunk rambling in the back seat. And from there, George was booked into the detention center. Luckily for him, his mom was able to post his bond as well as retrieve his truck and his two guns.
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Now, George's hearing for this incident was scheduled for July 8th, 1991, but George decided that he was going to be proactive. On June 5th, George arrived at the FBI federal office building on Charleston Boulevard in Las Vegas. He was there to file a civil rights complaint. Soon after, he sat down with an agent to go over this complaint, and according to them,
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He just started rambling on and on about his entire life story, being raised in a military family that moved around a lot, growing up in New Mexico, being honorably discharged from the Navy, so on and so on. Eventually, the rambling went on for so long, the agent had to stop him mid-sentence and asked what the nature of his complaint was.
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George shifted in his seat, and he thought for a moment before bluntly stating, quote, my civil rights have been violated by a secret group of white women. They've gotten together to form a nationwide conspiracy against me. They are preventing me from dating other women, end quote. The agent was intrigued to hear this bizarre claim and George continued saying, quote, they spread stories.
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They tell girls I have a bad attitude about women, that they shouldn't date me. These white women have followed me around the country. They spy on me and tap my phone. I can't get work because they call my employers and say negative things about me, end quote. The agent could clearly tell that George was paranoid, but it was his duty to hear him out.
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So he asks him, have you ever actually seen any of these women following you? To which George said, yes. They stand in front of my car when I try to drive. George also admitted that the conspiracy to ruin his life was new and that he hadn't always had problems with women, saying, quote, in fact, when I was overseas, I had no trouble with girls there. You know, Hispanics, nice girls, pretty girls.
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They weren't stuck up. We'd get along great. So the agent asked if he had any names of the women that were following him and George said no. He also asked if George had a list of businesses where he had applied for work. The agent said that he was going to call these businesses to see if there were indeed women targeting him. But of course, George could not remember any of them.
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So with no solid evidence into George's claims, the agent bluntly told him that there was not enough evidence to prove that his civil rights had been violated. Defeated, George Henard walked out of the office and it should come as no surprise that George was clearly struggling with some sort of mental health issues. Perhaps the agent that day noticed this, perhaps he didn't.
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But in hindsight, George was desperately needing help and he was needing surveillance because soon enough, Everyone in America was about to know his name. However, today, he was just the strange paranoid man who thought women were out to get him.
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If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events
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Pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice, no topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show.
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than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
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The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story. Unbeknownst to everyone, George was also a stalker. Remember how he had told Judy, that girlfriend of his, that he wanted to marry that girl from Texas that he had never even met?
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Fort Hood is where a number of tragedies have occurred including the 2009 mass shooting where an army major murdered 13 people and it's the place where soldier Vanessa Guillen was brutally raped and murdered in 2020. Now this military base will one day have a whole episode of its own because it is truly wild how many ominous things have occurred there.
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Well, for the past few years, he had been spying on his neighbors in Belton, Jane Bug and her two daughters, 19-year-old Jana Jernigan and 23-year-old Jill Fritz. For whatever reason, George had been fixated on the two daughters for years, and every time he came back to Belton on leave, he would watch them obsessively, tracking their routes.
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In his own twisted mind, George believed that the girls belonged to him. Interestingly, both Jill and Jana fit the very description of the white women that he hated. Blonde, blue-eyed, and American. And eventually, he decided to write the girls a letter. In his mind, the letter could put an end to these white women conspiring against him.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
So that day, George sat down and wrote a five-page letter, and when he was finished, he mailed it to Jane Bug, the mother of the two girls in his neighborhood. However, he accidentally wrote down the wrong address, and the letter ended up in the mailbox of Jane's neighbor, the Weatherfords. On the day in question, the Weatherfords opened up this strange letter and began to read it.
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Now, interestingly, George had forgotten the name of Jane's two daughters, Jana and Jill, and in the letter, he mistakenly referred to them as Robin and Stacy. Coincidentally, the Weatherfords had a teenage daughter named Stacy, spelled just like George had written it. But here is what the letter said.
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Dear Stacy and Robin. Surprise, surprise. Can you guess who this is writing to you? Well, just take a look at the enclosed pictures to help you figure it out. They are for you and your sister. Robin? I never did learn her name for sure. Believe it or not, to this day, 6-6-91, not one single person has ever come forward and volunteered one bit of information that would help me lead to your capture.
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One day before I left Texas to return to Las Vegas and all of its hassles, I saw it in the temple telegram, your picture and impressive accomplishments.
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is your sister of the same caliber i hope so the thing that immediately came to my mind was that you're a senior in high school i then realized that the mystery of what the problem was had been or was finally solved after three and a half years think back now stacy to january 31st 1988 the night that neil part my main man and rush played down in austin
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I remember seeing two young girls and their mother pass by me twice in a little tan compact car. While what's going on here, I thought to myself, oh my god, I was looking at two sisters, was it? Only and just 15 to 17 years old at the time? I can promise you, I had no idea of your young ages and the fact that I had just stepped into a legal Twilight Zone.
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My goodness, I must admit being truly flattered knowing I have two teenage groupie fans. But unfortunately, Mommy Deer had strong reservations about me. Maybe your mother saw me as the wolf in sheep's clothing. Was she afraid I would act irresponsibly with her two precious little gems and then run and hide? Your mother made a miscalculation in her evaluation of me.
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There was no place to run and hide then or now. I worked and sailed on ships for 14 years. When there was a problem, conflict, or crisis, no place to hide from it on a ship. We all just try to correct it or sit and ride it out. Do you think Stacey, someday sooner than later, you, me, and your gorgeous sister could meet up somewhere, sit down, and have a long talk? Would there be any harm in that?
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Let's face it, we owe it to ourselves to at least get acquainted and the three of us find out who and what we are. Believe me, make communication very easy. The hard part may come afterwards. You are both different and talented. That's why you caught my interest and still hold it regardless of what went down during the past three and a half years.
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Call me on the telephone and say, let's have a talk. Enough is enough now. His routine method leads nowhere. It was a dead end from day one. Excuse me, but both your parents are so evasive and nebulous about what their intentions are that I got disgusted and focused on one person. Your sister. Didn't do a bit of good, though. Okay, so now what do you and your family want to do?
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So much so, they actually recently changed its name from Fort Hood to Fort Cavazos. But back in the 1990s, the town of Killeen had yet to be marked by any of these tragedies. And at the time, it was simply known as a military town outside of Austin, Texas. The people of Killeen pride themselves on taking care of their community,
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The question begs itself. Did you and your sister find yourselves new flames yet? Do you think the three of us can get together someday? Please give me the satisfaction of someday laughing in the face of all those mostly white, treacherous female vipers from those two towns who tried to destroy me and my family. It was very ironic about Belton, Texas. I found the best and worst women there.
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You and Sister on the one side, and then the abundance of evil women that make up the worst on the other side. I would like to personally remind all those vipers that I have civil rights too. Just because I did hire an attorney to enforce my civil rights does not mean that they have carte blanche to do whatever they want in violation of these rights.
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I will no matter what prevail over the female vipers in those two rinky dink towns in Texas. I will prevail on the bitter end. In conclusion, I ask you, do not disclose the contents of this letter to anyone other than immediate family members. It is no one else's business but ours anyways. I hope that you and Robin will write soon to acknowledge receipt of this letter.
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Now it's your turn to respond. Remember from this day on, no more talk of rejection, slander, deceit, etc, etc. The truth is now in writing. Peace, sisters. Love you both. George, your fan. P.S. How about sending me your nice pictures? Ha ha ha ha ha.
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So as you can see, George Henard was clearly not doing very well. Not only did that letter not make any sense, but it just kind of rambled on and on. Then after writing it, he truly thought it would be a good idea to send it to these young girls.
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Now on the back of the letter, George stated that he could be located at his mother's apartment in Henderson, Nevada, and he provided the address and phone number. And then for weeks, He waited by the phone and checked his mailbox daily, waiting for their reply. However, it obviously never came. George was frustrated. He even thought about calling their home.
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But before he did, he double-checked the address he sent the letter to. And that's when he realized he got their address wrong. Upon seeing this, George was relieved. It's not that the girls were ignoring his advances, they just never got his letter. So from here, he decides to just pick up the phone and place a call to Jane Buck, the girl's mom. However, no one answered, so he left a voicemail.
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Later that day, 19-year-old Jana was the first one home as her mom was still at work. And like clockwork, she walked inside, put her stuff down, and hit the play button on the answering machine. Soon enough, she heard the voice of a man that she didn't recognize.
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I know you're going to think that this is funny, but there's been a terrible mistake. Just an awful mix-up. There was a letter that was mailed to your next door neighbors by mistake. We've got to set this right. This is a mess. Just a terrible mess. A mess!
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Upon hearing the message, Jana was immediately frightened. Something about the way he spoke sounded so frantic and unstable, so she immediately called her mom's office to let her know about the strange voicemail. At first, her mother Jane believed that it had to have been the wrong number. She tried reassuring her daughter that it was probably a misunderstanding.
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Trigger warnings from the stories we cover may include violence, rape, murder, and offenses against children.
Murder In America
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But Jana sounded scared, so much so, Jane decided to come home immediately and hear the voicemail for herself. And when they did, both Jana and Jane made their way over to their neighbor's house to see if they had gotten that strange letter that the man was talking about. And sure enough, they had. Ultimately, the letter was given to Jane, and she went home to read every page.
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There are a number of parks, playgrounds, and family recreation centers. They have a ton of activities from the Killeen Rodeo to the Multicultural Festival. It's also a city with beautiful lakes where people can go camping, fishing, swimming, and boating. According to the 2020 census, Killeen has a population of around 156,000 people.
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and when she got to the end of it, she was terrified. The writings were very scattered, but it was clear that whoever wrote it was extremely unstable. And not only was this man sending them mail, but now he's leaving voicemails on their answering machines. This was every mother's worst nightmare.
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Jane also studied the picture that the man had included in the letter, and she immediately recognized him. as the man who would work in the yard at the mansion down the street. After coming to this realization, Jane was now shaking with anger. This wasn't some weirdo in town. He was their neighbor, a neighbor that they had never even spoken to.
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Jane also said that they never attended that Rush concert in 1988, like he said in his letter, which was even more scary. He was clearly creating these stories in his head that were entirely false. So immediately, Jane decided to call the phone number that was listed on the last page of the letter. If George wanted a response out of this, then by God, he was going to get one.
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After a few rings, George quickly answered the phone. And as soon as he did, jane started screaming she scolded him for writing this letter to her daughters and told him to never contact them again don't call them don't look at them don't write to them she said she continued by saying that he needed help and that if he contacted them again she would get the police involved surprisingly
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george was extremely apologetic and he promised to leave them alone he even asked for forgiveness but with that jane hung up the phone following this call george was getting increasingly upset this is not how this was supposed to go but with nowhere to direct his anger he decided to call the weatherfords who he accidentally sent the letter to upon answering george screamed at them it's your fault
Murder In America
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"'Letter, you did it. "'You poisoned their minds about me,' he said." After this phone call, the Weatherfords immediately went next door to tell Jane about what happened. And it's here where Jane decided to go to the police. She ended up meeting with Chief of Detectives, Captain Cecil Cosper. But believe it or not, when Captain Cosper read the letter, he didn't think it was very alarming.
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He told Jane that, it's just a guy that has a crush on your daughters. Just stay away from him, he said. Jane left the police station that day feeling defeated. She knew within her heart that this man was dangerous, but apparently the police didn't agree and nothing ever came from this incident.
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The one thing that brought them comfort was that George was staying in Henderson, Nevada, far away from Jane and her daughters. But to her dismay, George would soon make his way back to his father's mansion, fixing things up before the house was due to hit the market that August. For weeks, Jane felt on edge. seeing George out in the driveway as if nothing happened.
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But unfortunately, there was nothing she could do.
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Once the temperature started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything. So we both decided to switch things up and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints.
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Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
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and a large portion of their population has a connection to the armed forces. With thousands of new military families arriving each year, the city is known for its patriotic spirit. It was even named the most patriotic city in Texas in 2020. For tens of thousands of people, it's a place where they're happy to call home.
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Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
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Everything with Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.
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Go to quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash America to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash America. And now let's get back to our story. Now once George made the trip to Texas, he continued writing in his journal about Jane and her two daughters.
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But he often used code words when he talked about them, calling them the family of snakes and rats. He also wrote about the town of Belton itself, saying, "...and they shall live with what they have created, curse on Belton." And, "...the Belton Police Department is the most worthless bunch of bastards I ever saw."
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Downstairs in the TV room, George kept a shrine of his favorite videos, military and war history, the Vietnam conflict, and one videocassette titled Murder in the USA. He also recorded segments of Unsolved Mysteries, Rescue 911, and an infamous horror film called Faces of Death, which showed people dying in gruesome ways.
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George also had specifically recorded segments on serial killers including Henry Lee Lucas and James Oliver Huberty. Interestingly, James Oliver Huberty had committed one of the worst mass shootings in history when he shot up a McDonald's restaurant and killed 21 people in San Isidro, California in 1984. We actually covered that story in episode 50 of our podcast.
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But the fact that he was interested in that story when he too would one day shoot up a restaurant is eerie to say the least. Clearly, George was a ticking time bomb, and the only person who seemed to know this was Jane Bug down the street. Following the incident with George, she often thought about his ominous threats, how his letter said, I will prevail in the bitter end.
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Jane believed that George meant harm, either to her or her girls or someone else. But luckily for her, she was finally able to feel a sense of peace in July of 1991. That week, George had left the mansion to go on vacation in Panama. So, for the time being, Jane and her girls didn't have to worry about seeing him around their neighborhood.
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Now, remember George's brother-in-law, James, that got him that construction job in South Dakota? Well, by this point, the two had mended their relationship, and after George's vacation, James picked him up from the airport. And like anyone would, once George got into the car, James asked, How was your trip? But George did not seem happy.
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He told James that his Panama trip had been completely ruined because the police were tailing him the entire time. Now, James knew of George's past, so he asked him, were they following you because you were doing drugs or something? But George said no. All he knew was that the police were following him and that his phone lines had been tapped, which clearly wasn't the case.
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However, in 1991, an unstable man by the name of George Joe Hinnard would not only shock the nation, but leave a deep lasting effect on the people and community of Killeen, Texas.
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George was falling deeper and deeper into paranoia and mental health struggles.
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But soon after this, he would return back to the mansion in Belton, Texas, and he was devastated to see that there was a for sale sign in the front yard. Now, George had been working on the home for a while now, getting it ready to sell. But seeing the sign in the yard made it all the more real. For George, the mansion was his home and he was angry at his father for wanting to sell it.
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So it was at this moment when he decided that he was going to do everything in his power to stop it from selling. His dad's realtor, Susan Washburn, eventually started showing the home and George would go out of his way to sabotage her showings. In one instance, he took a key from her so that she couldn't get inside. But even more alarming was the time that he cornered her inside the home.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George began interrogating Susan about how many women she was letting into the house. He clearly had a lot of paranoia surrounding females. From that moment on, George would intimidate potential buyers by either following them around the house during the showing or he would just stand outside of the windows and stare at them.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He also wouldn't let anyone inside of his bedroom because he said he had self-defense weapons. George's behavior was alarming and fortunately for him, no one placed any offers on the mansion that summer. By September of 1991, George was still living at the mansion which was a nightmare for Jane Bug and her two daughters living down the street.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The oldest daughter, Jana, had been taking classes at Mary Harden Baylor, and every evening when she would drive by the mansion on her way home, she felt a huge wave of fear wash over her. The mansion was always dark, and George's blue Ford Ranger was always parked right out front, letting them know that he was still around.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But on this day, when Jana drove by, George seemed to have been watching because soon enough, she saw the headlights to his truck flashing in her direction. Jana immediately felt her heart beating fast. Was he giving her a warning? She quickly made her way home. convincing herself that it was just a coincidence. But the following day, on her way home from her classes, it happened again.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George Joe Henard, originally named Georges Pierre Henard, was born on October 15, 1956, in Sayre, Pennsylvania. His father, Dr. Georges Henard, was a Swiss-born surgeon, and his mother, Gianna, was a homemaker and former antique dealer. Before their marriage in the mid-1950s, Gianna had been a widow with two young children, Carla and Craig Clampett.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Like clockwork, as she drove by the mansion, the headlights to George's truck flashed in her direction. Horrifically, this became a pattern over the next few weeks. George seemed to have studied Jana's schedule, and every day he would send her this ominous signal on her way home. Sadly, his behavior would only get worse from here.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
After a few weeks of flashing his headlights at Jana, George began running to the end of his driveway when he saw her car coming down the street. And as she drove past, he would just stand there, frantically waving at her. Jane, Jana, and Jill felt incredibly safe in their own neighborhood. This road, the very road where they grew up and built their lives, now felt hostile.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But without the help of the Belton Police Department, Jane and her two daughters had no choice but to remain prisoners in their own home.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, due to George's military background and training, he maintained a strict discipline schedule. Every morning at 5.30 AM, he would ride his bike down to the Leon Heights convenience store that was owned by the Meade family. And once there, he would always buy the same thing, an orange juice, sausage biscuit, donuts, and a newspaper. But George didn't just do his business and then come home.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Like his neighbors, many locals hated to see him coming down the road. It was common for George to start arguments with women in town. He would yell obscenities at women for absolutely no reason at all. Sometimes he would even spit on their cars.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
One morning, when he arrived at the convenience store, this lady was in front of him writing out a check, and he physically pushed her out of the way, slammed his soda down on the counter, and demanded to be checked out.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, the owner of this store was an elderly woman named Mary Mead, and she would later recall just how horrible George's behavior was, saying, he didn't apologize or say excuse me or nothing, he just pushed her out of the way, paid his bill, and left. He acted like he hated everybody. Mary was at a loss on how to handle this unruly customer.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
She knew she had the right to refuse him service, but she was scared of what he might do. One morning, he even threatened her, saying, Little did anyone know, George would soon make do on this promise.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Back at the mansion, George started becoming even more unhinged. When little kids would ride their bikes past his house, he would throw rocks at them. Sometimes he would even chase them down the street, spraying them with his garden hose. George's brother-in-law, James, would later say, that he would sometimes yell out crude remarks to the young girls that walked by.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, we don't know exactly what he was saying to these young girls, but it was bad enough that his brother-in-law called him a pervert. By October of 1991, George Henard was more paranoid than ever. He was fully convinced that everyone was spying on him, even his own family members. And it was around this time when George confided in his brother-in-law that he wanted to take his own life.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But James was quick to tell him not to. He jokingly told him that he had to stay alive to keep aggravating people.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
On October 15th, George celebrated his 35th birthday, but there was really nothing to celebrate. He had no career, no aspirations, no wife, no children, and George felt like a complete failure. To make himself feel better, he read an inscription he had written on a desk calendar that said, "'I am not an animal, nor am I a number. I am a human being with feelings and emotions.'"
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He also decided to treat himself to dinner that night at a local restaurant called Frank's The Nomad Turnaround Snacks. He ordered a burger and fries and sat at a circular table near the snack bar. That evening, he casually ate his meal and watched the news where he saw Professor Anita Hill speaking out about a sexual harassment claim against Supreme Court nominee Clarence Thomas.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But eventually, Georges came around, and she found love again. Together, the two would have three children. The first was George, a future mass shooter born in 1956. Then, five years later, they would have another boy named Allen Robert. And finally, in 1963, they had a daughter named Desiree. And from the beginning, the Hennards lived a very privileged life.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Angrily, George threw his half-eaten hamburger at the television and screamed, You dumb bitch! Now you bastards have opened it for all the women! The manager of the restaurant, Bill Stringer, heard the commotion out in the dining room and told George that that kind of language was not permitted. George nodded and eventually went back home.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But it's around this time when Bell County was gearing up for a big celebration called Bosses Day, where employees get together to celebrate their bosses who have treated them well. In fact, Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had been advertising for the event all week, inviting people to come dine with them on the joyous occasion. Which brings us to Wednesday, October 16th, 1991.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
That morning at 5.30 a.m., George rode his bike to the Leon Heights convenience store like he did every morning. And from there, he casually browsed the aisles and grabbed his usual, one orange juice, a box of donuts, a sausage biscuit, and a newspaper. However, for whatever reason, he also decided to grab a candy bar, likely because he knew it would be his last day on earth.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The owner, Mary Mead, was at the register when George walked up with his items. She grabbed each one and rang it up, anxiously waiting for him to make an off-the-wall comment, like he always did. But luckily for her, George was actually in a good mood. She told him his total, $3.37. But when George reached into his pockets, he started laughing.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He told Mary that he forgot to bring his money with him. He then asked if he could take the items back home and that later that afternoon he would come back to pay her. Now Mary didn't like the guy, so normally she would have said no. But considering George was in a good mood today, she agreed to his request. And from there, he jumped on his bicycle with his food and rode back to the mansion.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
as mary watched him she thought about how strange it was that george henard the man who was always so hostile was walking around with a pip in his step what was he so happy about what the community of killeen texas was about to find out once back at the mansion george sat down at his desk and began writing a letter to his sister desiree it read the following
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Deseret, encloses $100 to cover the water and electric bill. Do not pay the phone bill. I am responsible for it. Southwestern Bell violated my privacy rights. Therefore, they don't get paid. Don't let the people in this rotten town get to you like they've done to me. Take care of yourself and be strong. Love you, Brother Jojo.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
In this letter, George wrote about not paying the phone company because he believed that they had been tapping his phone, yet another sign of his extreme paranoia. George Joe Henner truly believed that everyone was out to get him, and the reason he was so happy today was because he was going to put a stop to that once and for all. After writing this letter,
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
george put on a white t-shirt that read ford the heartbreak of today's chevrolet it was an ode to his precious blue ford ranger which he was about to use in the attack george then put on a pair of stonewashed jeans and a turquoise button-up shirt adorned with colorful flowers he then fastened a leather belt around his waist
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Dr. George's Hennard had trained as a hospital surgeon and specialized in orthopedic medicine, so he made good money. Then, when George was just two years old, his father joined the United States Army and served as a doctor at many army hospitals around the world. He was an extremely intelligent man and fluent in multiple languages, including English, French, German, and Spanish.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
put a watch around his wrist, and then stuffed four preloaded nine millimeter magazines of ammunition into his pockets. With his Glock 17 and Ruger P89 fully loaded, George had a total of nearly 100 rounds of ammunition at his disposal. He was fully ready for what was to come. And with that, at 1150 a.m., he walked out of the mansion and got into his truck for the very last time.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The town of Killeen, Texas was only about 17 miles away from his home, and he had a very specific plan on where he was going, the Luby's Cafeteria. He was set to arrive there at 12.30 p.m., just in time for lunch hour. On the way over, he put on his Wayfarer-style sunglasses and lit a Bristol cigarette.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It's a beautiful fall day in 1991 in the town of Killeen, Texas. In its lunch hour that afternoon, over 150 hungry patrons made their way over to the popular restaurant chain called Luby's. Known for their cafeteria-style comfort food, Luby's was a town favorite in Killeen. And on this day, everyone grabbed their food trays and made their way down the line, filling their plates.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
And as soon as he saw the Luby's Cafeteria up ahead, he gripped both of his guns, one in each hand. George Hennard was meticulously prepared for the grand finale of his life, and soon enough, he would commit one of the worst mass shootings in our country's history. So, join us next week as we walk you through exactly what happened during the infamous 1991 Luby's Massacre.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. As always, this has been a story that Courtney and I have wanted to cover for years, so we are so glad to be covering this story.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
These are crimes that we still need to continue to talk about, not only to memorialize victims, but to keep spurring on conversations, you know, whatever side of the political aisle you're on when it comes to crimes like this and everything. We are so happy to have everybody here listening.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
If you want bonus episodes of the show, if you can't get enough Murder in America, consider joining us on Patreon where we post bonus content. You can also sign up and get early ad free access to all of our episodes. So if you don't like the ads, consider joining us on Patreon. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
And yeah, this next episode is going to be incredibly dark and incredibly disturbing. So in advance, listener discretion is advised. But we will catch you guys on the next one. And thanks for listening.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, because they were a military family, George moved around a lot as a kid. They lived in France, Germany, Thailand, Indiana, and New Mexico. Like many military families, they would move to a city and start their lives there, only to be told that they had to pack up and move again to go somewhere else.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
In fact, by the time George was 18 years old, he had moved a total of 12 times throughout his life. But, for now, we're going to focus on his time spent in New Mexico. Their family moved there after his father was promoted to commanding officer at McAfee Army Clinic at White Sands Missile Range near Las Cruces, New Mexico.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Their home was in the middle of a desert, which essentially served as Georgia's playground. During his younger years, he and his siblings spent their days riding dirt bikes in the desert. In the summertime, when the temperatures soared, they swam at the water tank near the base.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It was about as normal of a childhood as a military family could have, but according to neighbors, the Henard household wasn't always a safe haven.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Dr. Hinnard, being a military man, chose a more strict authoritarian style of parenting. He expected a lot from his children, and any time they disobeyed, he was quick to correct their behavior with a belt beating. He was also very particular about cleanliness. The kids had to pick up after themselves, make their beds, and keep a tidy room. At all times, their home had to be immaculate.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The living room was always cleaned to perfection, to the point where the children weren't even allowed to step foot in there. It was the rules of their home, and they abided by those rules. As the children grew older, Dr. Henard was also known to be very strict about their use of phones. Each of the children had a preset time limit on their phone usage each week.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
and it didn't matter if they were having the most important conversation in the world. If they went over that time limit, Dr. Henard would snatch the phone out of their hands and hang it up. Now, as George and his brother Alan grew older, their father expected even more from them. In one instance, the boys rode their family dirt bikes without asking, and in response,
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Their father punished them by taking the boys to a local barber to cut all of their hair off. Now, George and Alan were very upset about this. Keep in mind, this is the 1960s when long shaggy hair was the standard. The boys had both been trying to grow their hair out, and now, because of a dirt bike misunderstanding, their dad had cut it all off.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George was so upset about this, he ended up running away from home. Somehow, he ended up in Ohio. And when his dad finally located him, he got into even more trouble. It was reported that Dr. Henner took his own surgeon's scalpel and he used it to give George an even worse haircut where he had patches of bald spots covering his head. And George was forced to go to school like this.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now he was already a pretty shy kid who isolated himself from other people his age. So having to walk through the junior high halls with this haircut would have been humiliating. But that was his dad's rules. You disobey, you get punished. There was no way around it.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But while Dr. Henard ran their home with his authoritarian parenting, his wife Gianna was the complete opposite. She was known to dote on all of her children, believing that they could do no wrong, which was almost needed in a household like that. But according to the people who knew the family, their parenting styles often clashed.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
However, no family is perfect, and despite everything, the Henard children had good lives. They had roofs over their heads, food on the table, they had money, and at the end of the day, they were loved. By 1973, George was a junior at Mayfield High School in Las Cruces, New Mexico, but finding his place there wasn't very easy.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He didn't have a good group of friends, and more often than not, he felt like an outcast and a loner. But one of the neighborhood boys, Tony Movessian, had attempted to befriend George. They both loved music, especially the bands Pink Floyd, The Who, and Velvet Underground. Through this shared love of music, Tony asked if George wanted to be in his band.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
For some people, the most trivial things on their minds were questions like, should I get mashed potatoes or mac and cheese? Do I want chicken or fish? Of course, none of that would matter in just a few minutes. But after getting their meals, people took their seats around the restaurant enjoying their food while spending quality time around the table with their loved ones.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, throughout his life, George liked to play the drums, but he wasn't very good at it. However, Tony needed a drummer for his band, and George agreed to do it. But during their first few practices, the band quickly learned that George was not a great drummer. Not only could he not stay on beat, but he almost seemed like he was in his own little world. It was difficult to connect with him.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
So, soon enough, he was kicked out of the band.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
After being rejected by the local neighborhood boys, George isolated himself even further. He often sat in his room by himself, listening to music on his headphones. His room was a place where he could escape from the rest of the world and dive into other worlds. A place where he watched movies, listened to music, hung up blacklight posters, and surprisingly, it's also where he smoked marijuana.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, I'm not sure how he got away with that with his father, but teenagers tend to somehow make it work. But it's around this time when George got into a really big public argument with that old friend of his named Tony, the one who kicked him out of his band. According to Tony, shortly after the whole band incident, George approached him and accused him of stealing his leather hat.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Tony tried telling George that he didn't have his hat, but George wouldn't listen. And from there, he started going around the school telling people that Tony was a thief and that he was going to kick his ass. When Tony heard about these rumors, he was shocked. He would later say that he never once even saw this hat. And it didn't matter how many times he told George that, he wouldn't listen.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
It became clear to Tony and the other students at their school that George was clearly going through something. He always seemed paranoid, like people were out to get him. And then one evening, as Tony and his family were getting into their car, they watched as George emerged from the darkness and he just stood there in the street. ominously staring them down.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Tony's grandmother then asked if George was okay, but in response, he started screaming that he wanted to speak with Tony. The look on George's face was terrifying. He had balled his hands into fists. There was a darkness in his eyes. Once again, George started talking about how he was going to beat Tony's ass if he didn't give him his hat back.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
The interaction was clearly escalating, which made Tony's family uncomfortable. In fact, his father, who was a Colonel in the military, told George that if he didn't back off, he would give his own son permission to walk down there and kick his ass, which ultimately made George walk away.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, nothing ever came of this incident, and afterwards, the two seemed to have stayed out of each other's way. But throughout the rest of his time in school, George continued to be isolated from other kids. He just couldn't seem to get along with people. In 1974, he would graduate from high school, and four months later, he decided to follow in his father's footsteps and serve our country.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
George enlisted in the United States Navy, and was assigned to the USS Mississinua. For that first year, he spent the majority of his time helping with the ship's upkeep and repairs. However, George's mental instability continued to be a huge problem for him. In November 1975, though we don't know exactly what he did, he was ordered to go before a commanding officer's non-judicial proceeding.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
Now, whatever it was clearly wasn't serious enough for him to get into any big trouble. Non-judicial proceedings usually deal with minor things like slacking off, insubordination, drunken fights, or even poor hygiene. So, it could have been anything. But the following year, in May of 1976, George did get transferred to USS Dixie.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
However, it soon became clear to his superiors that George wasn't really cut out for the Navy. According to the book titled Anatomy of a Massacre, George was given a review in early 1977, and at the bottom of his record it stated, not recommended for re-enlistment.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
For many, it would be their very last meal. because at 1239 p.m., everyone's lunch was interrupted by the sound of a loud crash. At first, most people believed that the noise had been caused by dinner plates crashing to the floor. But when they looked up from their tables, they saw that a truck had crashed right through the building and was now sitting about 20 feet into the dining area.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
In February of 1977, George officially left the Navy at 20 years old, but a few months later, he went back out to sea with the Military Sealift Command, a government organization that supplies ships for the military. Nine months after working there, George transferred to the United States Merchant Marines, which allows everyday sailors to help work on the ships.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
But once again, George was struggling to find his place there, and throughout his life, marijuana was something that seemed to bring him comfort. On October 25th, 1981, George was pulled over near the Rio Grande border checkpoint, and he was arrested for marijuana possession.
Murder In America
EP. 181 : TEXAS - The 1991 Luby's Massacre: The Perpetrator, George Jo Hennard (Pt. 1)
He didn't get into any major legal trouble, but it's clear that he was pretty mentally unstable around this time, because just a few weeks after his arrest, his coworkers on the ship noticed a change in him. One of the port agents, Isaiah Ike R. Williams, said, He would come in with a very cold look and be very argumentative, loud, boisterous, sometimes cursing and swearing.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
So when Antonio and Shamika crossed paths, they had a lot in common. Their shared traumas made them feel that they weren't alone, and eventually the two would go on to have two sons together. By 2010, there were four children living in their home, Relisha and Irving Jr., from Shamika's previous relationship and the two sons she shared with Antonio.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Now, one would think, after growing up in such unstable environments, that they would want to create a better life for their kids. But sadly, history here would repeat itself. In 2010, Relisha was four years old. She was described as a natural caregiver. and she enjoyed taking care of her younger brothers.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
It was said that she would often run their baths for them, making sure it was the perfect temperature. She would also scold them when they ate too much candy. She took such good care of her brothers, her nickname was Lil Mama. Family was everything to Relisha, and she took her role as big sister seriously. As she grew up, Antonio Wheeler took on the role of Relisha's father.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
despite not being blood related he would later say quote she was real helpful she was always happy she kept the family happy she was the spirit for the family end quote from day one antonio loved relisha like she was his own daughter she was intelligent independent and according to her aunt ashley full of sass and spunk she was a typical kid she enjoyed riding bikes and racing her brothers she loved to dance and her favorite color was purple
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
But sadly, life within their home wasn't the life that Relisha deserved.
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EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review.
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EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program, so if you If you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, post one of our shows on your Facebook, and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much, helps us grow the show.
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EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all. But let's get back to the story. According to the staff at Payne Elementary, Relisha adjusted well, and she was a great student. She enjoyed making crafts, socializing, and just being a kid.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
However, by 2012, Relisha and her family faced homelessness after they were evicted from their Congress Heights apartment for breaching a tenant contract. At first, they went to live with Shamika's sister, Ashley, in her one-bedroom apartment. But as you can imagine, moving two adults and four children into a small space was cramped, to say the least.
Murder In America
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But Shamika's sister Ashley said that she didn't mind. After all, she didn't want them going to a homeless shelter. And as for the children, they loved living with their aunt Ashley. For Relisha, anything was better than the apartments they had been living in. In fact, after Relisha was born, she had lived with Shamika at an Edgewood apartment complex that was frequented by gun violence and gangs.
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At one point, it was reported that the police had been called out due to a man wandering around with a gun. When the police arrived, the man started shooting at anyone and everyone around Edgewood, and he ended up wounding seven people in the process. So life with Aunt Ashley was much better.
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Unfortunately, Ashley Young knew that she wouldn't be able to keep her family members at her small apartment due to living in subsidized housing, which limits the amount of people allowed to live in the home. So this could only be temporary. and eventually suggested to Antonio that they start looking around at the local homeless shelters.
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Of course, Antonio didn't want to go to a shelter, but Shamika insisted, stating that the weather was too cold outside to be homeless with four children.
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It was reported that the families lived in old hospital rooms with cart beds. There was a bathroom with a toilet and a sink, but if you wanted to shower, you had to go down the hall, where other strangers were hanging out. There was also no dedicated playground for the 600 children who lived at the shelter during the time Relisha arrived with her family.
Murder In America
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so children often played with boxes outside near the city street with the condition of this shelter there were numerous reported incidents of assault fights and domestic violence the lack of security made it a hot spot for drug deals and addiction the halls were filled with people shooting up or high on drugs in interviews people compared the interior to a horror movie and admitted that there were still boxes of medical records and office supplies scattered throughout the building
Murder In America
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When Relisha and her family moved there, they hated it, especially Relisha. When she went to visit her Aunt Ashley, she would sometimes fake asthma attacks just so she could stay there. Relisha referred to the shelter as the G and the Trap House, complaining that the food was terrible and the rooms were infested with creatures.
Murder In America
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In fact, several residents issued complaints with the Washington Legal Clinic citing mice and bed bug infestations, heating outages, and wild animals being found inside closets and bathrooms. Berlisha often begged to go to her grandmother, Melissa Young's house. She wanted to live anywhere other than the shelter, going as far as to fake an illness just so she didn't have to go back.
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Antonio said quote, we used to come in late for dinner from wandering around at the mall or at a playground when we didn't want the kids at the shelter Me and a lot of other parents would take our kids to another playground or whatever. So sometimes we were running late and he would put our food out for us and like, we can open our room door in the kitchen, like right there.
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Like I could stick my head out and get the food. So Relisha, she always wanted to help out. Daddy, I'll go get the food. I just opened the door and watch her get the food. He would give her the food. I'd shut the door. No extra, no nothing, none of that."
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Khalil was employed with the Community Partnership for the Prevention of Homelessness, a nonprofit that ran the shelter under a contract with the city of Washington, D.C. According to sources, the organization did not hire convicted criminals, and although a background check was conducted, he was still somehow allowed to work there.
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report that came out in september 2014 stated tcp conducted a pre-employment criminal background check on mr khalil tatum despite prior felony convictions for burglary and breaking and entering dc law did not not prohibit mr tatum from working at the family shelter in close quarters with its residents mr tatum was screened for his position consistent with the requirements of current law
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was not in a safety sensitive position as defined by the child and youth safety and health omnibus amendment act according to the podcast through the cracks john quillen hill stated that the dc general family shelter got into some trouble in 2010 after a report came out that stated staff members solicited sex from the residents in exchange for favors but the favors were everyday essentials like extra milk or juice for their children or more blankets for their beds when it got cold
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Khalil's wife, Andrea Tatum, was described as outgoing, outspoken, and loved to laugh. She had successfully recovered from substance abuse addiction, raised five children, and dedicated a lot of her time to religion. She worked at the Glorious Health Club, an LGBTQ plus establishment that rented cheap rooms to members.
Murder In America
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Although she faced many hardships in her life, Andrea was sober, and her life had really improved. In her free time, she loved spending time with her grandchildren, taking them to the movies, playground, and museums. She also volunteered at homeless shelters and helped out at her church.
Murder In America
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Now, she and Khalil married in July of 1990, and from the outside looking in, they seemed to have a good marriage. They would take vacations, Khalil bought her a new car, and they always talked about their plans after they retired together. But like with every marriage, they had their own problems. Andrea stuck by Khalil's side every time he was incarcerated. She supported his dreams.
Murder In America
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She wanted to dedicate her time to families in need, and Khalil wanted to help young black men in his neighborhood. But despite having issues in his personal life, Khalil never let it affect his spirit, especially at work.
Murder In America
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Washington, DC, the city and capital of the United States, full of history, iconic landmarks, and world-class museums. From the White House to the Lincoln Memorial, the city remains a living tribute to our nation's past. Each year, millions of tourists come in to explore its rich history, cultural diversity, and scenic beauty.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Throughout their time at the D.C. General Shelter, Shamika's sister, Ashley Young, admitted that her sister started to distance herself. Ashley believed that Shamika was upset that they weren't allowed to live with her, and although she still saw the children, Relisha hardly ever visited.
Murder In America
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When she questioned Shamika on Relisha's whereabouts, she learned that Relisha was spending more time with a man she called her godfather.
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ashley found it odd because her fiance melvin was relish's godfather however ashley said she never pressed for more information ashley told inside edition quote i wouldn't question her much if you don't feel like you owe me an explanation because you're her mother then i won't ask no more i should have questioned it end quote
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However, for some residents of Washington, D.C., the allure of the city's political power is overshadowed by high crime rates, homelessness, and the skyrocketing rent prices, which was definitely the case for the Rudd family in 2014. After being evicted from their apartment, 8-year-old Relisha Rudd and her family were forced to move into the D.C. General Family Shelter.
Murder In America
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Khalil's grooming of the eight-year-old got so bad that Relisha would get upset on the rare occasion that she wasn't allowed to hang out with him. She would ask her parents why she couldn't go with her goddaddy. Relisha's aunt said that sometimes when Relisha was at her house, she would ask to use her phone so she could call Khalil.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
There was clearly an attachment there, and at that age, she clearly didn't realize the danger she was in. After all, Khalil not only gave her attention, but he also gifted her things that she had never had before, something most kids in the shelter would never get. Her time spent with him also meant that she didn't have to be at the shelter, which clearly wasn't an ideal place for kids her age.
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However, no one questioned why Khalil refused to also take Relisha's three younger brothers on their outings. It was always just her. Each time Relisha returned home, she would have wonderful stories about her time with Khalil, where they went, who she played with.
Murder In America
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According to her family members, Relisha often played with Khalil's own granddaughter and said that both Khalil and his wife, Andrea, took great care of her. There was never anything negative said about her time away from the shelter. According to Khalil's stepdaughter, Alexis Kelly, Khalil was incredibly smart, funny, caring, and well-dressed. He knew how to interact and speak with people.
Murder In America
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If anybody needed anything, Khalil would be the first to offer the shirt off his back. He was charming and a good liar, something that often worked in his favor. Now, the D.C. General Shelter had a policy that each night a staff member would conduct bed checks to make sure all of their residents were accounted for.
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However, reports indicated that Shamika's children weren't accounted for about 50% of the time. But the record keeping at D.C. General wasn't organized, so there was no way to know which children were in the room and which were not. And in reality, they weren't even physically going into the rooms to check. which leads us to February of 2014.
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One day, according to the Washington Post, eight-year-old Relisha told staff members at the Playtime project that she wanted to speak with someone. Site manager Danielle Rothman said she walked Relisha to a private room with two other volunteers, and she admitted that she had been feeling sad. But when they asked her to elaborate, she didn't mention anything unusual.
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There was no mention of Khalil, and after a few minutes, she happily walked back to the play area with the other children after receiving a snack and a new pair of pajamas. But just one week later, Relisha Rudd would vanish from the shelter, never to be seen again.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
According to Relisha's stepfather, Antonio Wheeler, it had been Relisha's mother, Shamika, who suggested they go to the shelter.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know.
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EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real it's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories we're presenting you people with facts telling you the story walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with murder in america
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EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
after being forced out of their small apartment the family had crashed on family members couches but each time they were put out until eventually they exhausted all their options with nowhere else to turn shamika decided it would be best to move into the shelter temporarily until they could get their feet back on the ground
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
According to the Washington Post, one day before Relisha was seen with Khalil at the Holiday Inn Express on February 25th, Payne Elementary staff contacted Shamika due to Relisha's five unexcused absences at school. The article stated, quote, Pain officials scheduled a parent conference, which is required by law for truant students.
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At that March 5th meeting, school officials talked with Relisha's mother about plans to connect her with additional support services to ensure better attendance, according to the source, end quote. Apparently, Shamika had mentioned to school officials that Relisha had started suffering from severe migraines and was being seen by a man named Dr. Tatum.
Murder In America
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The social worker immediately notified the D.C. police, and when they arrived, Shamika was taken into a conference room at the D.C. General and questioned about Relisha's whereabouts. According to Shamika, her daughter had gone with Dr. Tatum to a medical conference in Atlanta, Georgia. She stated the two left on March 8th and that she had spoken to Relisha on the phone on March 17th.
Murder In America
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She admitted that she had known Khalil for several years and that she trusted him with her daughter and that she was safe. Shamika said that she did not want to file a police report. Now Antonio, Relisha's stepfather, had just arrived at the shelter and was standing outside smoking a cigarette when the director approached him and told him he was needed in the conference room.
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when the director approached him and told him he was needed in the conference room. At first, Antonio was annoyed, but he could sense urgency in the director's voice, especially after she told him that his girlfriend was not cooperating with the police. When Antonio walked in, he immediately asked Shemika what was going on.
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Authorities asked if he knew where Relisha was, and he told them she had been staying with her Aunt Ashley. Anthony had no idea that his stepdaughter had been missing for 18 days. Shameka never mentioned anything to him about Relisha being with Dr. Tatum. Antonio soon began to panic, and he begged the officers to check Ashley's house.
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It was known that if the children weren't at school or at the shelter with them, that they were at their aunt's house, a place they called Baby Boot Camp.
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The DC police immediately issued a missing person report for Relisha Rudd. News reports started coming out and investigators launched an exhaustive search to find the young girl. However, due to conflicting stories about who had last seen Relisha, the timeline of her disappearance was confusing. An Amber Alert was issued on March 20th.
Murder In America
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Both the FBI and the DC Police Department issued a reward for information regarding Relisha and Khalil's whereabouts.
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but shockingly shamika ended up changing her story about relisha being with galil in one of her first television interviews shamika stated that she didn't feel responsible for relisha's disappearance because she had been in the care of her mother and sister how are you feeling right now staying strong having a lot of faith that's all i can feel i'm hurt
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When she was asked about why she told Payne Elementary School that Relisha had been under the care of the so-called Dr. Tatum, she denied it. According to her, Relisha was only ever in the care of her grandmother, Melissa Young, which was clearly a lie.
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neighbor maurice jackson says tatum implied the girl was his niece and said he and his wife had just returned from some type of resort with the child authorities and volunteers continued to search land and water for eight-year-old relisha rudd her former teacher at the farrabee hope elementary school shannon smith was one of the volunteers she would tell john quillen hill on the through the cracks podcast we were over by kennelworth avenue in the park and we walked through the park
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Some of the park police would be out there with us and we would split up and everybody would just be out there walking until we just couldn't walk no more trying to find her." Relisha's stepfather, Antonio, wanted to join the search, but people speculated he was involved and he started to receive threats.
Murder In America
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According to John Quillen Hill, just weeks before Relisha had gone missing, Antonio had posted a photo on his Facebook account, showcasing a large wad of money. After seeing that, people wondered if he had received the money by selling his own stepdaughter. But Antonio denied this. He would later say that the money was from his tax return, but internet trolls didn't buy it.
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Soon the comment section was flooded with, Is it possible she was trafficked? It's pretty clear in my mind that her parents sold her to this Tatum guy. They should be prosecuted. And I suspect they may have given her away.
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Not only was Antonio being harassed on the internet with people messaging him and calling him a rapist and pedophile, but to make matters worse, DC's Child and Family Services Agency had removed Relisha's three younger brothers from Shamika and Antonio, which is understandable.
Murder In America
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The search for Relisha was still underway. But in the meantime, detectives went to work learning all they could about Khalil Tatum. During their search, they learned that Khalil had filed for divorce on February 7, 2014, just weeks before Relisha went missing.
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Andrea's family members told police that Andrea had contemplated leaving Khalil on several occasions, and there had been domestic issues in the relationship. Court documents stated that the separation was mutual and voluntary. When investigators went to search Khalil's apartment at the 2500 block of North Street Southeast, the divorce paperwork was found on the kitchen table.
Murder In America
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Investigators also located multiple cell phones, two passports, $87 in cash, a photo of Relisha, a computer tablet, and a large bag of children's clothing and shoes.
Murder In America
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One of Andrea's closest friends, Gerald Wills, believed that Andrea must have found out something sinister about her husband. Gerald described Andrea as the love of his life and said that he had known her for 30 years and even lived with her when Khalil was incarcerated.
Murder In America
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For Gerald, he believed that the only reason Andrea stayed with Khalil was because of what she had learned through Narcotics Anonymous. Always make amends. He told the Washington Post, He couldn't have loved her, because look at what he did. I think she found out something. That's why he did it. He thought she was going to tell. So did Andrea learn that Khalil had hurt 8-year-old Relisha?
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Did she threaten to go to the police? They didn't know. But the one thing they did know was that they needed to find Khalil before he could hurt anybody else.
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Between March 25th and March 28th, massive searches were conducted at the 700-acre Kenilworth Park and Aquatic Gardens. where it was reported that Khalil Tatum had been seen after Andrea's murder. On March 27th, Police Chief Kathy Lanier issued a press conference where she admitted that the search for Relisha was now a recovery mission. They feared Relisha was dead.
Murder In America
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As the investigation continued into Relisha and Khalil's whereabouts, video surveillance from a Home Depot near the Holiday Inn Express showed Khalil purchasing 42-gallon trash bags, a shovel, and lime on March 2nd. Shortly after his purchase, investigators discovered through cell phone data that he had spent a significant amount of time at the aquatic gardens.
Murder In America
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According to sources, Khalil knew the area well as he had grown up at the Kenilworth Parkside Public Housing.
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Shamika would spend the next four months with another foster family, but was once again removed after she, quote, threatened to kill everyone in the house. Shamika's third foster home was with Mabel and Artie Bethea. a couple who lived in Fredericksburg, Virginia, and they said that they were often given the worst of the worst when it came to foster children.
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always have strong hopes you can't never let your hopes down and god don't play with babies and food if she is alive where do you think she could be i don't know according to antonio wheeler after relisha disappeared the two decided to part ways antonio has continued to deny that he ever knew relisha stayed with khalil tatum but many people wondered why did he not question her whereabouts for the 18 days she was missing
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According to NBC Washington, Antonio stated that he believed the family should have been investigated, but for him, he did not consider himself family because he was only her stepfather. He said, Why didn't they? I'm her stepdad. I'm not her family. I've got kids with her mom, but I'm not her family. Why didn't they charge the family?
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For the eight months, Shamika lived with the Bethea family, and during that time, she attempted to run away on numerous occasions. She reportedly threatened to kill both Mabel and Artie and fought with the other children in the home. Finally, after threatening to hurt herself, Mabel decided it would be best to take Shamika to a mental health facility called Grafton. Shamika would later say, quote,
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For the next six days, investigators and volunteers continued to comb through the 700-acre park looking for any sign of Relisha. One of the volunteers, a man named Derek Butler, told the local news that they were searching for anything that could belong to a child. A toy, a shoe, an item of clothing. However, despite the exhaustive search efforts, nothing was ever found.
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I felt alone. I felt like I ain't have nobody. I felt like I was in a hole, end quote. She also complained that she had been restrained to the bed and given injections to help her calm down. Now, after spending some time at this mental health facility, she eventually returned back to the Bethea home, where her brother, Antonio, had been fully adopted.
Murder In America
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Despite the Child and Family Services being involved with Relisha's family, reports indicated that there were no clear signs she was in immediate danger. As for school officials, they had argued that they had been deceived by Shamika Young, who continued to falsely claim Relisha had been with Dr. Tatum and was receiving treatment for a neurological condition.
Murder In America
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Although Relisha had missed more than 30 days of school, they stated that most of those were excused and they intervened when she had 10 unexcused absences due to a law that required intervention at that amount of unexcused absences.
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embarked four years ago on closing dc general we all believed it was too big to run down too isolated to serve families who need emergency shelter we have worked over the course of the last four years to create short-term family housing in all eight wards of the city After the disappearance of Relisha, D.C. General became a symbol of neglect, crime, and ultimately, a huge failure.
Murder In America
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However, after a few months, Shamika's behavioral problems returned, and her foster parents decided to take her back to Grafton. This time around, Shamika was diagnosed with a mild mental disability and was described by her caseworkers as...
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
The community would never forget the horrific living conditions that families were forced to live in, and how vulnerable children were exploited, groomed, and abused. Project Playtime co-founder Jamila Larson would tell the Washington Post, The children at DC General were neglected many years before Relisha Rudd went missing.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
She was so symbolic of all the gaps in the safety net and all the ways we collectively have failed vulnerable children in our community.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
a very sad angry youth she does not make eye contact or speak without considerable encouragement to do so she cries easily and has reacted angrily to sudden transitions
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Melissa and Antonio both believed that Shamika was responsible for Relish's disappearance. During her time on the Steve Wilkos television show, Shamika was heavily criticized. Antonio and Melissa both agreed to take polygraph tests. However, Shamika refused, which only raised more suspicions about her involvement.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Your turn. Your turn.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Shamika's attitude during the investigation rubbed people the wrong way. She didn't seem as frantic as you would expect a mother to be when they found out their child had been missing for weeks. Over the years, Shamika has said that she never allowed Khalil Tatum to take Relisha, when it's been proven that this is false.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
She also continued to deny she ever told Payne Elementary School that Relisha was under the care of a so-called Dr. Tatum. Instead, she shifted blame. She blamed her mother, Melissa Young. Shamika said that it was actually her who called the elementary school. Shamika also blamed her sister, Ashley Young, and said that she had been in her care when she went missing.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
After Relisha's disappearance, the family feud played out in the media. exposing their dark past with child and family services, and how both Shamika and Antonio had grown up in the foster care system. In 2021, Shamika returned to the Steve Wilkos show to give an update on the case.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Once again, she defended her decision to not take a lie detector test, and this time blamed her ex-boyfriend, Antonio, for Relish's disappearance.
Murder In America
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Because at the end of the day, I'm going to always be there for Relisha. I was more of a parent to her than you was.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
It has now been over 10 years since Relisha Rudd disappeared, and there have still been no sightings of her, dead or alive. But the case remains open, and although the D.C. Police Department still receives tips, none have ever led to any solid evidence or answers.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
In order to keep her name alive, Washington DC announced that July 11th would be Relisha Rudd Remembrance Day. The day was chosen to represent the 18 days she was missing. 7 plus 11 equals 18. Each year, members of the community hold an event to honor and remember Relisha's legacy.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Founder of DC's Missing Voice, Henderson Long, hopes that keeping Relisha's name in the media will shed a light on her disappearance and keep the searches going. She told WUSA9, I think Relisha may be a year older than my daughter. And so it really puts things in perspective. If this was my daughter or anybody else's daughter or me or you or anybody missing this long, it still hurts.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
And we want to prevent this from happening again, as you said before with other children. And it's all about education. It's all about mobilizing and getting the community to take action.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Brenda Brown, a retired federal employee, launched a Facebook group called We Are Relisha. She told the Washington Post that she never knew Relisha, but that her disappearance had an impact on women, especially mothers. She said, Relisha is a part of us. She is a part of our soul. If we're not going to be Relisha, then who will be Relisha? Who's going to speak for Relisha?
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Who's going to stand for Relisha?
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Although Relisha's mother, Shamika Young, tends to stay out of the spotlight, it was reported that her and her mother, Melissa Young, have made amends. In an interview with Inside Edition in 2020, Shamika admitted that every year without Relisha, it gets more difficult. She said, It's not my fault. I am tired of laying my head down to get some rest, and I can't even reach out and grab my daughter.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Shamika's mother, Melissa, said that it was still hard for her to go to sleep at night not knowing where Relisha was, if she was alive or if she was dead. However, whenever she dreamed of Relisha, she always dreamed of Kenilworth Park. Shamika Young has never been charged in connection with Relisha's disappearance.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
In 2023, Antonio Wheeler posted a video on TikTok blaming the advocates who gave Relisha a voice.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Antonio remains active on TikTok, posting various videos about Shamika's involvement in Relisha's disappearance, how she continues to contact their two children, and how after a decade, he has finally received custody of his sons. In one video, he even said that both Shamika and her mother Melissa had a sexual relationship with Khalil Tatum.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Today, in Berlish's honor, we will be making a donation to the Black and Missing Foundation, a non-profit organization that raises awareness surrounding missing black and brown individuals who are often overlooked by the mainstream media and law enforcement. Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
This was the story that I've been talking about for a while during these outros. I have wanted to tell this story and share this story with our audience for a long time because this entire thing is just so egregious and the lack of justice here, the lack of answers is not only infuriating, but it's just, it's really, really sad, especially knowing how much life Relesha had within her
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
and what she could have grown up and gone on to do with her life it's so tragic all the way around and just there has to be a break in the case someday there has to be an answer that comes hopefully one day if we just keep talking about it that day will come But if you love Murder in America and you don't like the advertisements throughout the show, please consider joining us on Patreon.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
If you join us on Patreon, you can get early and ad-free access to all of our episodes. You can also get access to bonus episodes, so if you love the show and you've already finished every episode we've ever put out,
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Consider joining us on Patreon because you can immediately get access to a huge library of full-length bonus episodes featuring Courtney and I, the sound editing, everything that we do on all of our shows. It's like essentially doubling the Spotify or Apple Podcasts library immediately when you sign up and you help support the show and keep this whole thing going.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover. Leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. Be sure to check out the conspiracy files on all streaming platforms. And yeah, we'll be back next week with another story. We'll never run out of them, sadly, here in America.
Murder In America
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¶¶
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Following this, Irving Rudd was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to just 15 years in prison. Unsurprisingly, in 2002, Irving was released, but according to his criminal record, he has never had another offense. Now, sometime after he was released, Irving would cross paths with Shamika Rudd.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
And like we mentioned, the two would go on to have two children together, Relisha in 2005 and Irving Jr. in 2006. But according to Shamika, Irving wanted no part of raising his children. Shamika told the Washington Post, he walked out of Relisha's life at the age of one and he walked out of Irving's life at the age of six months.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
Now, family members admitted that Irving tried to be a good father to his children, but the tension between him and Shamika caused some problems. Shamika's sister, Ashley Young, stated that Irving often picked up Relisha and Irving Jr. from her house. Both children were always ecstatic to see their father, but for whatever reason, Shamika did not want to be around when Irving showed up.
Murder In America
EP. 193: WASHINGTON D.C. - She Gave Her Child To A Pedophile: The Disappearance of Relisha Rudd
In fact, in February 2012 and September 2012, Irving had even filed for legal custody of his children. it seemed as if this time around he wanted to be a good father. Each time he filed for custody, he paid the $80 fee, and he did this because he believed Shamika was not taking good care of the kids.
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In both filings, he stated that, quote, joint custody was not in the best interest of the children, end quote. However, both times it was thrown out due to both Shamika and Irving not showing up to court.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
Almost four months after our Houstonian went missing at Fort Hood, Vanessa Guillen is finally home. This involved an exhaustive search with constant prayers for a miracle before ending in heartbreak. Today we witnessed Vanessa's remains be brought here to Holy Name Catholic Church for a funeral mass.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
Vanessa's father and siblings carried the green casket adorned with the Virgin Mary and American and Mexican flags from a hearse to the steps of this Catholic church. Father Anil Thomas blessed the remains with holy water before they led the casket inside.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
As dignitaries like Mayor Sylvester Turner talked about Vanessa Guillen's impact. Her living and her death will not be in vain.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
We learned a heartbreaking detail
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
He revealed the Guillen family's mistrust of the Army runs so deep they asked the Houston Police Department to confirm the remains belonged to Vanessa. Acevedo told Gloria Guillen the news himself.
Murder In America
EP. 189: TEXAS - The Murder of Vanessa Guillén: A Complete Failure At Ft. Hood
Today, as the red, white and blue wave to welcome the soldier home, the prayer is she's finally at peace.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
As you just heard, Jessica was screaming, Papa. She was coming to the realization that her family was dead. From here, Sergeant Paul Davis went through the home where he saw a horrific scene. The bodies of Jessica's family members were strewn all throughout the home. There was blood and bullet casings covering the ground.
Murder In America
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Sergeant Paul Davis discovered the deceased body of Rodolfo outside in the backyard. Apparently, Rodolfo had entered the residence during the chaos but was met by Joseph and his gun. He was shot once, stumbled backwards into the yard, and collapsed on the ground. The deceased body of Jesus Serrano was located in the hallway near the kitchen. Both Maria and Kenneth would be found in the basement.
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Now, at this point, Sergeant Paul Davis is the only officer on scene, and his first priority is clearing the home to make sure the gunman isn't still around. And as he's outside, Jessica makes her way down into the basement, and that's where she sees the bodies of her twin sister, Maria, and her husband, Kenneth.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Horrifically, Sergeant Paul Davis's body cam captures the moment she makes that discovery.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Our story starts in the town of Aurora, Colorado. Located outside of Denver, Colorado, nestled in the Rocky Mountains, Aurora is breathtaking. Courtney and I actually just visited there last month on our anniversary trip, and we can see why people choose to live there.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
When you drive through Aurora, there are parts that have a very small town feel, even though there's a population of over 380,000 people. It's a very family-friendly community with a lot of outdoor activities. And being the third largest city in Colorado, Aurora is known for its diversity. Its population has a mix of Native Americans, Asians, African Americans, Hispanics.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on Instagram, Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much, helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But let's get back to the story. Soon enough, Geneva Street was lit up with blue and red flashing lights. Yellow crime scene tape surrounded the Serrano home. Officers in town were actively on the hunt for Joseph Castorena, while other investigators worked the crime scene. EMTs had arrived at the house, but as they checked the four victims for any signs of life, they found none.
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What had started out as a fun night for the family tragically ended with four people losing their lives outside of the home sergeant davis escorted jessica to a quiet portion of geneva street where he did his best to console her
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So there's a lot of culture here. According to Visit Aurora, there are over 90 languages spoken in the Aurora school system. Dubbed the City of Sunshine, the area is lucky to have over 300 days of sunshine each year, making it one of Colorado's most sought-out locations for outdoor enthusiasts and tourists.
Murder In America
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From here, Jessica and the two children were taken to a local hospital. Fortunately, all three showed no signs of physical injury. However, there were emotional scars. The three were also placed under protective custody since Joseph Castoreno was still on the run. But that night, Jessica had to let her family members know that he had finally done what they'd all been afraid of all along.
Murder In America
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Jessica's uncle, Ubaldo Codina, spoke with Fox 31 Denver and admitted they were all afraid of Joseph. He had threatened to kill Jessica and her family on numerous occasions, and he finally made good on that threat. They also knew that he was not one to follow protective orders.
Murder In America
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In fact, Jessica, Jesus, and Maria had even called the police on Joseph many times for violating protection orders, and still, nothing happened.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Back at the crime scene, investigators searched for clues inside of the home. They found a stolen 9mm Kim handgun and nine spent shell casings. The gun was eventually traced back to a man in Iowa who had originally purchased the gun in 2016. It is unknown how Joseph came to be in possession of the stolen firearm, but fingerprints on the gun would later be found to match those belonging to Joseph.
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But as you may know, the town has had its fair share of tragedies, including the Aurora Theater shooting that took place on July 20, 2012. 24-year-old James Egan Holmes opened fire inside a Century 16 movie theater and brutally murdered 13 people, including an unborn infant. while wounding 70 more.
Murder In America
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However, there was still no sign of him. Ring camera footage caught him escaping through the back of the house barefoot. It was extremely cold that morning, so investigators believed that he had most likely gone back to his parents' house, located only a few blocks from the Serrano residence. Even further, investigators were able to determine that Joseph's cell phone had pinged nearby.
Murder In America
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He couldn't have gone far. So from here, police descended upon his neighborhood with K9s. They quickly taped off the entire street and searched on foot, in between houses, backyards, and they also went door to door to find out if the neighbors had seen anything. While searching, they located his red Hummer H2 parked in the street, abandoned. But it was a little after 3 a.m.
Murder In America
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when police came knocking on his family's door with the news that their son had just massacred an entire family. According to them, they had no idea where he was. Here's his sister talking with the police.
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Once the temperatures started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn-out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything. So, we both decided to switch things up, and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Everything with Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Go to quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash America to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash America. And now let's get back to our story. With the help of a bilingual officer, they were also able to talk to Joseph's mother. And that's when they learned about the tumultuous relationship between the couple.
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But they still needed to search the Castorena home. Officers had a feeling that Joseph might be hiding inside. So at 4.30 a.m., a team of officers led by Sergeant Paul Davis entered the Castorena residence. Once inside the house, the team of police officers went room to room searching for Joseph. Their canines also searched for him, but there was no indication that he was at home.
Murder In America
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And although his cell phone still pinged in the area and he was clearly on foot, authorities couldn't find him. During the early investigation, one police officer noted that he heard a loud truck roaring out of the neighborhood, followed by a sequence of gunshots. Investigators wondered if the truck had been used as a distraction to allow more time for Joseph to escape.
Murder In America
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They also wondered if Joseph had an accomplice.
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Now, I know we usually give a lot of background information on the people in our stories, but sadly, there isn't a lot out there on the people in this case. What we do know is that Joseph Castorena and Jessica Serrano had a long, twisted history together, one filled with love, pain, and betrayal, and they were young.
Murder In America
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On the afternoon of October 30th, Jessica's mother was interviewed by Fox 31 Denver, and she provided more insight into the relationship between her daughter and Joseph.
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At 7.50 a.m. on the morning of October 30, Joseph's Hummer was towed and searched at the Aurora Police Department evidence bay. DNA was swabbed and lifted from the interior, and they also located his driver's license, his social security card, two credit cards, one debit card, and a Costco card inside his wallet. After finding these items, the thought of him fleeing seemed even less likely.
Murder In America
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Leaving the country without any money or an ID wouldn't be easy.
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In 2022, Joseph was just 22 years old, so he and Jessica were just kids when they started dating. And of course, like any new relationship, especially as a teenager, the two quickly fell in love. And in the beginning, things seemed to be going well for the couple. They were happy. Eventually, he and Jessica found out that they were pregnant with a little girl.
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After the case was publicized throughout Aurora and nearby Denver, several tips came into the police department, including one from Joseph's cousin, Joel. Joel told investigators that during the early morning hours of October 30th, he was suddenly woken up by a knock on his bedroom window. Joel said that he opened his eyes and saw his cousin standing there, with a strange look on his face.
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It was clear that something was terribly wrong. So Joel went to the front door to see what he wanted. When he opened the door, Joseph kept repeating over and over again. I fucked up. Now, it's unclear whether or not Joseph told him about what he actually did that night, but Joel said that it looked like he was high on drugs.
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Joseph even begged his cousin to let him stay there for a while, but Joel refused. Instead, he gave Joseph a pair of green tennis shoes and sent him on his way.
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And soon after that, they had another daughter. From the outside looking in, they appeared to be a beautiful, loving family. But looks can be deceiving. Because beneath the surface, their relationship was volatile. Joseph had a bad temper. He would physically and emotionally abuse Jessica whenever he got upset. And sadly, he was even beating her while she was pregnant.
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now joel's house was located several miles from the crime scene so investigators wondered how he had traveled that far in the cold weather without any shoes at this point they believed that he had had an accomplice and they focused their investigation on joseph's two brothers but joseph's older brother provided an alibi for his whereabouts that morning and it checked out
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However, his younger brother, Juan Angel Castorena, was a different story. During the early investigation, investigators were very suspicious of him because Juan refused to speak with them. But on the afternoon of November 1st, he was taken to the police station for an official interview.
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And shockingly, Juan admitted that he had not only helped Joseph escape, but also that he had given him a ride to the Serrano residence before the murders. Now, like we mentioned, Joseph's Hummer had been abandoned at the scene, so I'm not sure exactly how that played out. But according to Juan, after the murders, he drove Joseph to Denver, where he passed him off to their cousin, Carlos Flores.
Murder In America
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Both Juan and Carlos also gave Joseph some cash so he could flee. But after this confession, Juan was arrested and ultimately charged with accessory after the fact in four murders.
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Now, by this point, it had been over a month since the massacre, and Joseph Castoreno was still on the loose. And by now, investigators believed that he had escaped to Mexico, where he had family. So the FBI, Mexican Immigration Services, and the Federal Police Force followed a trail that led them to Zacatecas State in Mexico.
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According to reports, once Joseph entered Mexico, he reached out to his family members for help, but they weren't as welcoming as he had hoped. In fact, the year prior, in 2021, after his grandfather's funeral, Joseph had caused some problems with his family members in Mexico. So clearly, they had no desire to harbor a fugitive. These family members even alerted the local police.
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By the time they arrived, Joseph was already gone. After leaving Zacatecas state, he traveled to a remote area of Mexico called Aguas Calientes. But by then, Mexican authorities were on the lookout for him. And soon enough, on December 10th, 2022, they spotted a short young man with a lion tattoo on the side of his neck. It was Joseph Castorena.
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For women in abusive relationships, pregnancy can be a very dangerous experience. In fact, the leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide, which is horrifying. One would think that because they're growing a baby, the abuse would stop, but that's not always the case.
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And finally, after a month and a half of being on the run, Joseph was apprehended by the Mexican police.
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If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events,
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
In some situations, physical abuse can actually get worse for a number of reasons, like how the mother's attention has shifted to their baby instead of their husband. And sadly for Jessica, she experienced this firsthand.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story. Colorado investigators were informed of his arrest and they immediately flew down to Aguas Calientes to interview him.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Ultimately, he was extradited back to the United States and taken to Phoenix, Arizona. Here, he was held by the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department until he would be extradited once again to Colorado. But interestingly, during an interview in Phoenix, Joseph complained that Mexican authorities had treated him horribly.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
He feared he would receive the same treatment in the United States, but investigators assured him he would be treated with respect.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
joseph was held without bond at the arapahoe county jail in aurora until a june 2023 supreme court ruling stated that anyone convicted of first-degree murder must be eligible for bond before trial so the prosecution requested the bond be set at 100 million dollars a number that clearly no one could afford
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
So, on July 7th, 2023, Judge David Karpel didn't set it at $100 million, but he set it at $75 million, and it all had to be in cash. Still, a number that only billionaires could afford. Now, Joseph's defense attorney argued that the amount was unconstitutional, and that no one, not even the extremely wealthy, would be able to afford it. They suggested that the bond be set at a mere $100,000.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
which is insane because his brother Juan's bond was $400,000 and Joseph had literally fled the country. So, I think his bond was pretty appropriate. Ultimately, Judge Karpel believed that Joseph was the classic definition of a flight risk and posed a clear and unjustifiable risk to society. He also feared for the safety of the surviving family members.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
So, clearly, Joseph had to wait in jail until his trial.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
In May of 2024, Joseph Castorena finally went on trial for the quadruple homicide of Jesus, Maria, Rodolfo, and Kenneth and the attempted murder of Jessica.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
The prosecution presented overwhelming evidence against him, including fingerprint matches that linked him to the murder weapon, a ballistic analysis that reported that the gun was used in the murders, ring camera footage of him lurking outside the residence before the killings, and harrowing testimony from multiple witnesses, including Jessica Serrano. Senior Chief Deputy D.A.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Darcy Cofill stated, this coward executed an entire family and an innocent tenant. This defendant couldn't accept the fact that his ex-girlfriend wanted to move on with her life. Instead, he decided to viciously murder everyone she loved. In turn, the defense argued that Joseph's actions were caused by extreme emotional distress and attempted to poke holes in the prosecution's timeline.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But the jury wasn't convinced. On May 16th, after only a few hours of deliberation, the jury finally reached a unanimous verdict. Guilty on all counts. Due to being found guilty on all four counts of first-degree murder in the state of Colorado, Joseph now faced mandatory life in prison. During the trial, it was reported that Joseph showed no remorse for his actions.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
and continued to blame Jessica until the very end for what he had done that fateful morning.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
On September 3rd, 2024, Judge David Carpal sentenced Joseph to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He also received an additional 24 years for the attempted murder of Jessica Serrano to run concurrently with the four counts of first-degree murder.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
During sentencing, Judge Carpal told Joseph, "...your actions were those of an insignificant little man with a big gun who had to control the people in his life that he supposedly loved." and did so with such abject violence. This insignificance of yours will dissipate in time into ether, where you will become forgotten.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
I've had many people stand before me as defendants and say, I'm not a bad person, I just did the wrong thing, and I've sometimes agreed with them. But Mr. Castorena, you are the biggest exception to the rule. Joseph refused to speak during sentencing.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Judge Carpal also commended Jessica for her bravery, saying she exhibited extraordinary courage in the most difficult circumstances given the evidence of this case.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of Murder in America. Courtney and I are so thankful to have the amount of listeners that we have and to have everybody out there joining us on this journey. And yeah, we just can't thank you all enough for tuning in every week to explore these stories with us.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
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EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
So if you love the show and you want to support the work that we do here, joining us on Patreon is a great way to do so. Also, don't forget to leave us a five-star review, whether it's on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, wherever you're listening to this show. And follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Anyways, y'all, Courtney and I hope you have the best weekend and a great week whenever you're listening to this episode. Thanks again for tuning in and I'll catch y'all in the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
On the afternoon of October 23, 2022, Jessica was leaving her work when she suddenly saw Joseph in the parking lot, and the look on his face was terrifying. He quickly approached her, demanding they talk over lunch, but Jessica refused. She tried to walk away to get into her car, but before she knew it, he grabbed her by the arm and forced her into his Hummer. And that's when she saw the gun.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Once in his car, Joseph pulled out his small black handgun and pressed it up against her. He then told her that he was going to kill her if she didn't do what he said. But at that moment, Jessica knew that she needed to get out of there. She knew what he was capable of, so she attempted to flee the vehicle.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
She would later say that when she opened the car door, he grabbed her by the shirt, trying to keep her inside. But she fought back. Jessica ended up falling backwards out of his car, and from there, she took off running.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
Together, Jessica, her father Jesus, and her twin sister Maria drove to the Arapaho County Police Department and filled out a criminal complaint and protective order. And sadly, this wasn't the first time they had done this. Her family had filed separate protective orders against Joseph in the past, specifically for his violent behavior and threats.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But on this one, Jessica wrote on the report, I was planning on going home and he didn't let me. While being pregnant with my first child, he would hit me. Really controlling, harassing all the time. I had to listen to him or he'll hit. Wouldn't let me see my family. Her father Jesus was also a part of this report.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And in regards to this recent incident, he wrote, The next day she showed up around 3 p.m. She was covered in glass and had cuts all over her arms. Joseph had broken her driver's side window while she was on the driver's side. He was upset because he didn't want her to leave. Joseph also had a gun on him. He used it to scare her.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But Jessica wasn't the only person who was afraid of Joseph. Her father Jesus filed his own order of protection against him. As it turns out, Joseph had threatened him as well, especially when it came to Jessica and Joseph's daughters. In Jesus' report, he wrote, Now, following this, both Jessica and Jesus were granted temporary orders of protection.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
and a permanent order of protection was scheduled for a hearing on November 4th, 2022. Her twin sister, Maria, also requested a protective order against him, but there were no records that indicated it had been granted. According to KDVR, the judge denied it, citing no imminent danger. But as we've seen time and time again, these protective orders are simply a piece of paper.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And when it comes to monsters like Joseph Castorena, it isn't going to stop them. In the past, these orders meant nothing to him. He had a long criminal record for violating court orders and failure to appear in court, so clearly he didn't care about this protective order.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And despite these charges against him, Joseph was able to evade punishment and continued to harass and threaten his ex-girlfriend and her family. It was also reported that even when Joseph would get arrested for these crimes, his family was always there to support him and immediately bail him out of jail.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
But for the meantime, Jessica and her family were relieved that the courts were on their side. Their protective orders also made it to where Joseph wasn't allowed to possess a firearm, which was also a relief considering he would use it to threaten her. But as you can imagine, things were extremely complicated, especially because they had two children together.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And Jessica's family said that Joseph always used the kids as a way to control and manipulate Jessica. Now, on October 29th, 2022, after all the protective orders had been issued, CPS actually removed both of their daughters from their custody, citing concerns about the volatile environment and the unstable dynamic between their parents.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And Joseph was still awaiting trial for that felony child abuse case from two years back. So from here, the girls actually went to live with family members in Texas. Now, considering how abusive their father was, this was definitely for the best. But it also seemed to be the breaking point for Joseph. First, he lost Jessica. Then he was issued these protective orders.
Murder In America
EP. 197: COLORADO - The Mass Shooter Who Fled To Mexico
And now he's lost his daughters. He had lost control over everything in his life. And he certainly wasn't happy about it.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
In December of 1992, after three years of dating, Rusty proposed to Andrea and she happily said yes. To him, Andrea was the exact type of woman he wanted in a wife. Someone who followed the same religion. Someone who was subservient to him. To Rusty, that was very important, as he believed that wives' roles are to be agreeable. And Andrea was just that.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She wasn't really the type of person that was outspoken. If she didn't agree with something, Andrea would keep it to herself to keep the peace. She wasn't one to argue her point, or to talk back. She followed her husband's lead with whatever he wanted, and that dynamic seemed to work out for them.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On April 17th, 1993, the two would get married in a small chapel in Clear Lake Park, and a non-denominational pastor officiated the ceremony. And with that, Andrea Kennedy was now Andrea Yates, a name that is now known all across the world. But after exchanging vows, the newlyweds celebrated with over 100 guests at their reception.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
It was a new and exciting chapter in their lives, and all of their friends and family were so happy for their union. The following week, Rusty and Andrea would honeymoon in Cancun, Mexico, and when they came back to Texas, they had their new home waiting for them. Rusty had purchased the small brick house in Friendswood, Texas for $90,000.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And although it was the smallest house in the upper middle class neighborhood, it was perfect for the two of them, especially because just two months after their wedding, Andrea found out she was pregnant with their first child.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And I'm Colin Brown.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Things were about to get a whole lot more difficult for the Yates family. Because in 1996, Rusty found out that NASA was transferring him to Honeywell Aerospace in Clearwater, Florida. Now, he would only work there for less than a year, so instead of buying a house, Rusty decided that he and his family were just going to live out of a small travel trailer.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
For years, he always liked the idea of living a minimalist life, with few worldly possessions. The Warneckys had actually been preaching that owning a big home and having a lot of stuff wasn't godly, so this was their opportunity to live a life that honored God.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now, it's unclear what Andrea thought about this move, but considering she was hardly one to complain, she likely trusted that her husband had their best interests at heart. She did, however, message Rachel Warnecky about the move, and she told her that they were moving to Florida. Sadly, she also said that she had been feeling really lonely lately.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
A few weeks later, Rachel responded and told Andrea to explore that loneliness and what that's telling her about her salvation. She also instructed her to read the Bible verse Titus 2, which states, "...teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine."
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
but to teach what is good then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children to be self-controlled and pure to be busy at home to be kind and to be subject to their husbands so that no one will malign the word of god rachel made sure to emphasize that women should be the ones taking care of the home and stated that it went against what modern women thought she even added jesus knows how wicked you are how weak and vulnerable but god is able to sympathize with your weakness
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Even the loneliness works to draw you to seek and find security in him.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow... definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
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EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
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Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But let's get back to the story. By June of 1997, just eight months after arriving in Florida, Rusty's contract at Honeywell Aerospace had officially ended. So on June 17th, they packed up all their things and drove back to the Lazy Days RV park in Texas. The RV park's manager, Belinda Green, was happy to see them again.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She enjoyed watching the little boys play outside and laugh, and she was surprised to see that Andrea was pregnant again. By that point, she was actually just a few months away from giving birth. And this time, Belinda gave them the best spot in the park, so the children had plenty of room to run around and play. The Yates family was happy to be back in Texas.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Rusty immediately started back with his work at NASA. Andrea spent her days with her children, like she always did. When she had free time, she liked to take the boys to the community pool, walk them around the park to pick flowers, and go to the small pond on the property that contained an assortment of bugs that Noah loved to play with, especially the butterflies.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
By all accounts, Andrea appeared to be a great mother. She was patient with her boys. She was also kind but firm when it was appropriate. And because of that, Noah and John were good kids. Belinda Green would later say that the oldest, Noah, would often bring her drawings of flowers and butterflies, two of his favorite things.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But under the surface, Andrea was struggling. Her entire life had been confined to a 38-foot travel trailer. She had no social life outside of her children, and she barely even had time to care for herself. Instead, she spent her days taking care of her three boys. In February of 1998, their family would celebrate Noah's fourth birthday.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
but there were no friends or family members there for the occasion, just Andrea, Rusty, Noah, John, and Paul, all singing happy birthday to him in their trailer. The Yates family kept their circle small, but the one family they did interact with was the Warneckys. In late May of 1998, they would actually take a family trip to Miami, Florida, where the Warnecky family was living at the time.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Michael and Rachel had been there with their six children, evangelizing at college campuses. And their kids were even involved in their work, handing out pamphlets to college students as they walked by. One of their daughters, a girl named Ruth, mentioned to one of the students that she and her siblings didn't have any friends and that they were homeschooled.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
In addition, Rachel Warnecki had given a statement to the Indiana Daily Student where she stated, While the Yates family was in Miami,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea Pia Kennedy was born on July 2, 1964, in Houston, Texas. Her parents, Andrew and Karen Kennedy, had five children altogether. There were the three boys, Brian, Patrick, and Andrew, their daughter, Michelle, and then Andrea, who was the youngest.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On February 15th, 1999, Andrea would give birth to her fourth baby, another son they named Luke David Yates. By this point, Rusty had sold their first travel trailer, and their family of six was now living in their renovated Greyhound bus. Which was better because now they had a bit more room, but it was still incredibly crowded.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
With four children, all under five years old, their new bus was filled with toys, clothes, dishes, you name it. There was this one portion of the bus that they originally used to store luggage, But with how crowded things were, they now had to use it for a makeshift bed for Noah and John.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And it's around this time when the RV park manager, Belinda Green, noticed that Andrea hardly ever left the bus. Throughout the day, she stayed cramped up inside with her four young boys. And on the rare occasion she did step outside, everyone said she looked overwhelmed and exhausted.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea's father was a former Air Force pilot who had flown bomber planes in World War II, and he would actually meet Andrea's mom in Germany, where she was from. At the time, Karen was working as a German translator during the war, and upon meeting, she and Andrew fell in love and got married.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea's family was devastated over what happened, but there was a long history of mental illness in her family. Two of her siblings had been diagnosed with depression, her father suffered from depression, and one sibling had bipolar disorder. It was also reported that there was a history of alcohol abuse somewhere in the family.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Following the war, Andrew would bring her back to the United States, where they settled down in Houston, Texas and started a family. From there, Andrew worked as a teacher at Humble High School, and Karen stayed home with the kids. The Kennedys were a simple, Catholic, middle-class family. Growing up, the kids lived very normal lives.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But once at the psych unit, Dr. James Flack diagnosed Andrea with major depressive disorder, single episode, severe, and suicidal ideation. For the next week, Andrea was closely monitored to make sure she was no longer a danger to herself. and during that time, she opened up to a nurse about her mental struggles.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She told her that after having children, she had become very overwhelmed and depressed. but she also said that she was no longer suicidal. According to hospital reports, Andrea admitted to having recurrent obsessive thoughts and that most of them are over our children and how they'll turn out.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
When the hospital staff spoke to Rusty, he admitted that he believed they had a good marriage, but over the years, he felt that Andrea had lost her identity due to her energy being focused on the children. It was also noted that it was concerned with Andrea's obsessive thoughts about the concept of salvation.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
During this call, she reported that not only were the living arrangements not healthy for Andrea and her children, but that the father was letting his toddlers use power tools. About a week after this report was made, CPS Supervisor Dan Wilber replied and thanked Norma for sending the message.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
but he informed her that there was nothing they could do stating because the situation does not appear to involve the occurrence and or substantial risk of abuse or neglect we plan no further inquiries however dan did say that he forwarded the complaint to the houston police department but back at the psychiatric hospital andrea was treated with the antidepressant zoloft
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
and they also noted that she may be suffering from delusional guilt, and that she was still at risk of harming herself. But despite this, they decided to release Andrea due to insurance restrictions. Dr. Flack wrote in Andrea's notes, "...interviewed patient again this AM. I also spoke to the patient's husband at length. They are requesting that she be discharged to the family's care.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
They have agreed to watch her around the clock and are aware that she is at risk of harming herself again."
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea was described as a shy little girl who kept to herself, much like her father. Their family lived directly across the street from the Glenbrook Golf Course, and she and her brother loved to collect stray golf balls and sell them for a profit.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On the weekends, the Kennedy children liked to ride their bikes through the neighborhood, swim at their local YMCA, or on special occasions, their family would go to the beach and boat around the golf.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Now, during this week, while Andrea was at the psychiatric hospital, Rusty finally came to the conclusion that they had to buy a house. Andrea's mother Karen had even approached him and said, no more bus. And she was right. Having six people crammed into that tiny space was not good for Andrea's mental health.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
That very week, on July 29th, 1999, Rusty bought the house located at 942 Beachcomber Lane in the community of Clear Lake in Houston, Texas, the very home where their biggest nightmare would one day turn into reality.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Following this evaluation, Dr. Thompson diagnosed Andrea with major depressive disorder, severe recurrent, and with psychotic features. They also suggested electric shock therapy treatment. Another doctor, Dr. Arturo Rios, agreed with the treatment plan for Andrea. but both Andrea and Rusty refused.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
They wanted to wait it out to see if the injections of Haldol were working, but during her last week at the hospital, Andrea was still not showing signs of improvement. She continued refusing her medication, which was a combination of Haldol and Cogentin, and two antidepressants, Effexor and Welbutrin.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
When asked why she wouldn't take her medicine, she would simply respond, I just don't feel like taking them. But in order for her to get released from the hospital, Andrea had to take her medication. So eventually, she started pretending to take her pills. In some instances, she would just hide it inside of her mouth until no one was looking.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And when the coast was clear, she would spit the pills out into the toilet. Now over the course of her three weeks stay, she had shown some signs of improvement. She opened up to the doctors about her mental health struggles. She sometimes took her medication and towards the end, her mood seemed to have slightly improved.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So on August 9th, 1999, she was discharged to the partial hospitalization program, which meant that she would continue outpatient treatment during the day,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
but at night she was able to go home and luckily for her home was no longer a 350 square foot bus but rather a spacious 1600 square foot three bedroom home in clear lake but upon getting discharged andrea had to follow orders which meant she had to be diligent about taking her medication which included well butrin 150 milligrams twice a day effects or 75 milligrams twice a day
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
a two milligram injection of Cogentin at bedtime, and a five milligram injection of Haldol at bedtime. If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories, and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories we're presenting you people with facts telling you the story walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with murder in america and then letting the listener decide what they think anyways you should definitely give it a listen it's called the conspiracy files the links are in the description of this show and you can find it on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and now let's get back to our story
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
andrea yates was going through postpartum psychosis a rare but serious medical emergency that endangers both the mother and the child's lives according to the cleveland clinic although the disease is rare only affecting roughly one in one thousand mothers it's extremely dangerous now postpartum psychosis is very different from postpartum depression or the baby blues
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
which is much more common with pretty mild emotional symptoms. But postpartum psychosis affects a mother's sense of reality. Common side effects are hallucinations, severe mood changes, delusions, disorganized thinking or behavior, insomnia, agitation, thoughts of self-harming or harming others, depression, mania, or a mix of both. And Andrea was experiencing most, if not all, of these symptoms.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
It also appeared that with each child her symptoms were getting worse. So the fact that she and Rusty were still wanting to have more children was incredibly concerning, especially since she wasn't committed to taking her medication. Andrea Yates was a ticking time bomb, and no one seemed to have realized, because on August 20th, she was discharged from her partial hospitalization program.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
and they were so happy that they were finally having a little girl. All was well in the world. Here are some home videos from around this time that show Andrea laughing while her boys sing their ABCs.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
That evening, she laughed as she filmed her son Luke throwing his face into her chocolate birthday cake. Their family was happy and nearly complete. On November 15, 2000, Andrea and Rusty welcomed their fifth child and first daughter, Mary Deborah Yates. By that point, Andrea had been off her medications for a year, and things seemed to be going well.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Home videos showed birthday parties where she laughed and held her youngest daughter. She filmed a play where Noah and John dressed up as medieval knights with homemade costumes. Here's a video where one of the boys was holding his new baby sister.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On February 15th, 2001, Andrea filmed Luke's second birthday celebration, a happy occasion where she made a homemade cake shaped like a train, his favorite. Nine days later, their oldest son Noah celebrated his seventh birthday, and on video you can hear Andrea asking him what he liked to do. Noah happily responded, Everything seemed normal, but under the surface,
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Andrea's mental health was about to take another dark turn. It's also around this time when she and Rusty began corresponding with the Warnecki family again. Michael, Rachel, and their six children were still preaching around college campuses, shouting at everyone that they were going to hell, and how worldly things like football were evil.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
They were even condemning Christians, the Pope, and Catholics. Here are some clips from the Warnecki's teachings.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Both Rusty and Andrea truly looked up to the Warnecki family. They took their preachings to heart. They held Bible studies at their house three nights a week. And something else that the Warneckis preached on was their opposition to modern medicine. Perhaps this is why Andrea was never really consistent with taking her own. Maybe she thought it wasn't what God wanted. We don't know.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But we do know that at this point in Andrea's life, her religious delusions were at an all-time high. And it's around this time when Andrea even began sending her family members copies of the Waranecki's newsletters, warning them that their Catholic faith would secure them a spot in hell.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
They were really leaning into the fire and brimstone teachings, and this, coupled with Andrea's mental decline, was a recipe for disaster. Because, unbeknownst to everyone, about four months after their daughter's birth, Andrea's postpartum psychosis would reappear, coming back stronger than it ever had. and this time it was escalated even further by a tragic life event.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
On March 12, 2001, Andrea and her four siblings rushed to the hospital to be by their father's side. Sadly, he would die after a seven-year battle with Alzheimer's disease.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
During the stay, Andrea refused to eat, drink, or talk to anyone. She also refused all medications. So her psychiatrist, Dr. Muhammad A. Saeed, and her physician, Dr. Patricia Cork, decided to write a letter to the Galveston County Probate Judge, Gladys Burwell, to have her legally committed to the Austin State Hospital.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Both doctors believed that Andrea was a danger to herself and that she needed further treatment at the facility in Austin. Interestingly, during their assessment of Andrea, the doctors left one box unchecked, a box that read, is likely to cause serious harm to others. So clearly, no one ever thought that Andrea was capable of hurting her own children.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
They just thought she was a danger to herself. And to be fair, throughout her years in and out of psychiatric hospitals, Andrea had never shown any signs that she was going to harm her children. Only herself. If anything, she was a good mother who dedicated her life to caring for them. She baked them cakes, taught them in school, sewed them costumes, and played with them all day long.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So no one ever really knew what she was truly capable of.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
In Dr. Saeed's final notes, he wrote, On the day of discharge, the patient appeared dressed and groomed casually and hygiene was good. The patient waved at me and seemed much more interactive today. No delusions or hallucinations. No suicidal or homicidal ideation. The day after her discharge, Andrea would attend her mandatory group therapy session.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
But when it ended, she told Rusty that she didn't think it was beneficial, as all they did was watch a movie about addiction. A few days later, Rusty called Dr. Saeed and told him about Andrea's improvements. He said she was interacting with the children. communicating more, and she was in good spirits. The only issues she had been having was difficulty falling asleep at night.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
He also told him about how Andrea didn't want to go to group therapy anymore, and a few days later, she was officially discharged from her outpatient therapy. But despite Andrea's improvements, the doctors warned Rusty that Andrea was not to be left alone with the children. In May of 2001, Rusty called his mother, Dora, and asked if she could come help watch the children.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And of course, she agreed.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
We just released part two of this story on our Patreon for those who subscribe to our top two tiers. So if you want to listen to part two, the link to our Patreon is in our show notes. If not, we'll see you next week for the finale of the Andrea Yates story. Hey, everybody. It's Colin here. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
It's always such a pleasure to have everybody out there. Courtney and I are so grateful to be here. 2025, we started the show four years ago, which is crazy to think that we've been doing it that long. And we didn't expect to be here. We're just filled with gratefulness and happiness and joy. We're just so glad to have so many people out there that tune in every week.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And this story hits close to home because we live in Houston and Courtney and I have actually been to the Yates house. I included a little part about her story in a different documentary that I did on YouTube. And it's weird because it's such a nice neighborhood. It's just a very calm, nice place. And you would never expect that such an infamous event occurred inside one of those houses.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
If you want to join us on Patreon, you can get access to bonus episodes of the show, early and ad-free access to all of our episodes, and so much more. So if you love Murder in America and you want more content and you've never been on Patreon, I would highly suggest you go sign up because Immediately upon sign up, you'll get access to a whole library of bonus episodes. There's over 100 on there.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So yeah, if you love the show, that's a great way to help support us. As always, be sure to follow us on Instagram at Murder in America. Be sure to listen to our other show, The Conspiracy Files. We also have another show that's coming soon. So it's a really exciting year. But yeah, we'll catch you guys next week for part two. We will be back next Friday.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
As always, thanks for tuning in and I'll catch you on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
After graduation, Andrea attended the University of Texas Health Science Center, and throughout college, she worked at a grocery store to help pay the bills. Now, there isn't much out there about her college experience, but one can assume it wasn't very eventful. Andrea wasn't the party type.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She was religious and very studious, so she took her education seriously and eventually earned a bachelor's degree in nursing. This was the perfect job for Andrea. Throughout her whole life, she loved to help people. In fact, her brother Brian would later say that Andrea had a helpful spirit for her entire life. When she was younger, she would even help the elderly people in her neighborhood.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
So a career in nursing was the perfect fit. Following college, she would get a job at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in downtown Houston. It was a big deal for Andrea, as MD Anderson is a celebrated research hospital and one of the best cancer hospitals in the country. During her time there, she rented out a small apartment in southeast Houston and mostly kept to herself.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Outside of work, she didn't do much. Occasionally, she would grab lunch with a friend, visit her parents in town, and run errands. But other than that, her life was pretty mundane. She definitely wasn't putting herself out there in the Houston dating scene. In fact, at this point, Andrea had never even had a boyfriend, not one. But she didn't mind.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
She knew her husband would come along when the time was right. But one thing Andrea did enjoy doing around this time was floating in her apartment's pool. Throughout her life, the water seemed to bring her comfort, especially in the scalding hot Texas summers.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
Russell Edison Yates Jr., otherwise known as Rusty, was born in New York but raised in a small town called Hermitage in north-central Tennessee. And unlike Andrea, he was very social and popular. Growing up, he had a lot of friends and was an all-star football player at DuPont High School.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
According to people that knew him, he was one of those charismatic jocks that everyone knew, but he was also very religious. Every single Sunday morning, Rusty would go to church, and on Sunday evenings, he would meet up with his youth group for Bible studies. In the summers, when he wasn't practicing football, he would travel with the Methodist Youth Fellowship for summer camps.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
and various other church outings like trips to amusement parks and movie nights. One of his high school friends, a woman named Tracy Alvarez, stated, He could be so carefree at times, then, at the next minute, he could be very serious about his religion, whatever. Religion was very important to him then, especially. And the one thing he and Andrea had in common was their intelligence.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
During his senior year of high school, Rusty was in multiple advanced placement classes, was president of the National Honor Society, was a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and he worked as a library aide. It was ironic for everyone that knew him, because not only was he your typical football jock, but he was also incredibly smart.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
His friend Tracy stated, "...I think what stuck in our minds was that he played football, but was in all the advanced classes. You were either a jock or very intelligent or one of the kids that did drugs." It seemed as if Rusty Yates had it all at DuPont High School. He was even elected Mr. DuPont by his peers. And he was chosen for who's who among American high school students.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
While Rusty was finishing his last few years of college, he was actually selected to be a part of a NASA cooperative program in Houston. This was a very big opportunity for him. The students who were picked got to spend three semesters at NASA, designing and building parts of a shuttle, while working with some of the smartest people in the country.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
And at the end of this program, many of the students were even offered a job at NASA. This was huge for Rusty. They only picked a handful of students to be a part of this, and he was one of them. Before he knew it, he was moving out to Houston, Texas. The three semesters at NASA went by in the blink of an eye, and Rusty made a good impression there.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
After graduating summa cum laude from Auburn, NASA even offered him a job as a junior engineer. And during his time there, Rusty was considered to be a great employee. He always showed up on time and did exactly as he was told. But according to his coworkers, he was unremarkable. One of his coworkers said, He was a pretty quiet guy to himself, you know? He's not one of these high-energy types.
Murder In America
EP. 184: TEXAS - Andrea Yates: The Mother Who Drowned Her 5 Children In A Bathtub (PT. 1)
He was smart and knew what he was doing. He'd like to have a good time, laugh at the jokes. If something crazy happened in the lab that was funny, he would laugh. He wasn't like the class clown. He wasn't anything like that. But when the situation would arise... he would laugh just like everyone else. Nothing bizarre, nothing strange back then.
Murder In America
EP. 180 : PENNSYLVANIA - The "Dear Zachary" Case
We went to the same medical school. You went to the same medical school? Yeah, Newfoundland. Oh, is that right? Canada? Yeah. Can you recognize my accent? Did you know her?
Murder In America
EP. 180 : PENNSYLVANIA - The "Dear Zachary" Case
suited for him. Did you describe yourself as boyfriend and girlfriend? Well, no, not really. You know, I've tried to be as honest as I can remember. Even now, I guess I'm racking my brain for two weeks. Why was I here and there? Because I didn't expect I had to come up with all of this. Right.
Murder In America
EP. 180 : PENNSYLVANIA - The "Dear Zachary" Case
Sometimes you don't realize what you're saying. I think it was one time we were on the phone or something. Yeah, the baby cried and I said, oh, there's my baby. Yeah, I mean, I can watch that for sure. You are trying to take my place. There has been, I guess, a lot of uncomfortable feeling on both our parts. I would really like for you and Kate to reconsider getting some help with that.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
And I'm Colin Brown.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
So there it is, the confession that ultimately got Donovan Holt arrested. After recording it, Jamie immediately handed it over to the police, and thankfully she did, or Donovan Holt probably never would have been behind bars in the first place for killing his wife. Jamie Dickerson is the sole reason that there's any semblance of justice here, for lack of a better word.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
But like we mentioned, the outcome of this case is not what anybody wanted. If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories, and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
the conspiracy files we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events pedophile rings government corruption ritual sacrifice no topic is untouched on this show everything that we talk about on the conspiracy files is backed up with fact i release
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real it's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories we're presenting you people with facts telling you the story walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with murder in america
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
and then letting the listener decide what they think anyways you should definitely give it a listen it's called the conspiracy files the links are in the description of this show and you can find it on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and now let's get back to our story following donovan's sentence courtney and i called jamie and her husband jeremiah on zoom to discuss everything so here are some parts of that interview
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
The whole thing is insane.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
None of it makes sense. I can't understand why they have such a hard time seeing the truth, especially when it's all there.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
It's right in front of them. It's right here in front of them. Like the way that you guys spelled it out, the way that we spelled it out in the podcast, it's like very, very obvious what actually happened. So it's one of those things where for us, it's like sitting and actually analyzing what they said and what they've done. It just makes no sense at all whatsoever.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
They give people with DUIs more time.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
He used to play video games?
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
I don't know about you guys, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money too. After years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up from crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks that actually cost more in the long run and switched to Mint Mobile.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
It's crazy how much these big carriers like to charge you for every little thing. It's like clockwork. When it's time to pay my wireless bill, I'm like, oh my. Hey, God, this is crazy. You're charging me for this and that, but not with Mint Mobile.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
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Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all of your existing contacts. So it's incredibly easy and painless to switch over. And I think it's about time to ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for just 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash america. That's mintmobile.com slash america. Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month 5GB plan required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. And now, let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
In this next part, Jamie talks about a paper that the police department sent her and attached with something called a tort act, where it essentially says that the police department can't be held liable for their mistakes in the investigation.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
I hate corruption.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
More than anything, especially from these people that are supposed to protect. Yeah. And they protect themselves. It's just. Yeah. Yes. If they protect and serve, who are they protecting? Yeah. It really makes me wonder why? Like, why?
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
I just don't even get how... he can't be charged and like given a longer sentence just based on the lying to police.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Yeah. Yeah.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
those are changes that we can get made and if they can use her as a case study nationwide then go for it i said i'm all for that now jamie didn't end up going to donovan's sentencing trial it was too disappointing of a day and she was afraid of how donovan would react she said that one look in her direction one facial expression might have set her off so she decided not to so if you would have gone to the hearing you would have been able to read
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Here's the video that Jamie posted of her victim impact statement.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Jamie said that although she didn't get to confront him in court, she has written to him several times since he's been in jail. Donovan also has written Serenity and Denzel.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
We put like the help in the community.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, the National Domestic Violence Hotline number is 1-800-799-7233. If you are in a situation where you can't call, you can also text them to get help. All you have to do is text the word START to 88788. Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
I know this wasn't like a typical episode of our show, but we were incredibly involved with telling this story and you know. But when we first decided to cover the April Holt story, we dove headfirst into everything. And now at this point, we're very good friends with Jamie, her husband Jeremiah, their family. And we felt that an update like this was definitely warranted.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Because if there's one word I can use to describe this entire case and affair, I would choose the word injustice. It is absolutely crazy to me to see how this case turned out. with all of the evidence, everything that was found and discovered, but it's inspired Courtney and I to continue fighting, and I hope that Jamie's words can inspire you guys at home as well.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
If you want to join us on Patreon, just head to patreon.com and search for Murder in America, You can get access to bonus episodes of the show on there, plus ad-free early access to all of our main feed episodes. So if you don't like the ads, consider joining us on Patreon.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
If you haven't followed us on Instagram yet, make sure to follow us at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover. And also be sure to leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to this show. It really helps us out a lot. Anyways, y'all, we will be back next week with a regular episode of the show.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
But next week is that story that I've wanted to share for a long time that I definitely feel needs more awareness raised around it. Anyways, y'all, have a great weekend. I'll catch y'all on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Their investigation from the very beginning was one of the most flawed investigations I have ever seen, and I think that they know that. We of course went into more detail on that throughout our coverage of the case, but maybe a reckless homicide charge was just the easiest way to put this all behind them. So that's exactly what they charged him with.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
For months, Jamie Dickerson has been on edge, waiting to find out the fate of Donovan Holt, her daughter's killer. and on february 18th 2025 that day finally came but it was not at all what anyone wanted horrifically donovan was sentenced to two years in jail and eight years in community corrections now we didn't really know what community corrections was
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
but it's essentially a place where prisoners go after prison where they're supervised but they can still work they can still go out into the community and it's pretty much like they're on parole sadly donovan's sentence also included time served so he will be out in community corrections in just 18 months keep in mind this is the same man who strangled his wife to death staged her suicide sent their son in to find her body
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
and then lied to the police and the family about it for an entire year. Now, let's just hypothesize for a second and say that April's death was an accident. Courtney and I personally don't believe that it was, but for storytelling purposes, let's just say that he did kill her during sex. In our opinion, it's crazy that he got two years, even for everything he did afterwards.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
Tampering with evidence, child endangerment for sending Denzel in there that day, lying to the police. There were so many crimes committed trying to cover up what was done. And at the end of the day, Donovan only got two years. Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program, so please
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
If you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
But let's get back to the story.
Murder In America
EP. 192: TENNESSEE - The Confession: A Massive Update In The April Holt Case
She had to have more.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
After the shooting, his wife Christine told reporters that she'll never forget the day that she got that knock on her door. The knock that all military families dread. According to the website travismanion.org, John was always trying to find ways to show his love and make his loved ones feel special.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
On the first Valentine's Day as a married man, John wanted to do something special for his wife, Christine, who just had foot surgery. Although John was not a cook, he took the time to make Christine heart-shaped hamburgers. It meant so much to Christine that John took the time to try and cook and make something so special for her that it became a tradition for the two of them.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
John Paul Gaffney was the kindest man on earth. john put a lot of value on his personal relationships particularly with his family and close friends he was always trying to find ways to show his love and make his loved ones feel special sadly despite his heroism that day captain john p gaffney was unable to take down the gunman and from there more people would lose their lives
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Francesca Vales grew up in Chicago and her family said she could always be seen laughing, smiling, and dancing. Growing up, she loved to salsa dance and would later join her school's dance team. She had such a cheerful spirit, she even worked for free as a clown for children's birthday parties. Her father would later say, she was a woman that was very happy. Her laugh, her smile, her kindness.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
She was beautiful. She also had dreams of joining the military. Her father, Juan, who was a Colombian immigrant, had moved to the United States in the 1970s. And he always wanted to enlist, but he didn't meet the requirements. So Francesca vowed to carry this dream for him. She had actually been deployed to Iraq earlier that year. But while there, she got pregnant, so she came home early.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
She had only been in Killeen, Texas for three days.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
the time she was two months pregnant and she was really excited for her parents to meet her boyfriend whom she had met during deployment sadly both francesca and her child would die that day when her family heard the news they were devastated their biggest fears had come true of course as a parent they were so proud of francesca for serving her country but they also worried about her her family recalled feeling a little relieved when they found out she was pregnant
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
because they knew she would come home from Iraq and be safe. Little did they know, coming home would put her in direct danger. Her father would later tell reporters through sobs, What I don't understand is how this demented man could do this. How could she die at the hands of her own people? That's what I don't understand. I don't understand, and I will never understand.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Dr. Michael Cahill grew up in Spokane, Washington. After high school, he joined the 161st Unit National Guard while also going to school. Eventually, he would meet his wife, Jolene, and the two would go on to have three children.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Mike's career as a physician's assistant took him all around the U.S., but in 1997, he would move to Temple, Texas, where he was eventually offered a job at the Soldier Readiness Center to help soldiers go through medical checks before deployment. His family said that he absolutely loved his job. So much so, he traveled over 120 miles to work every single day.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
At the time of the shooting, Dr. Cahill had actually just returned back to work after taking a much-needed break. You see, he had just suffered a heart attack, and sadly, he would survive it, only to be shot down and killed at work. But Mike's bravery wouldn't go unnoticed. He was posthumously awarded the Secretary of the Army Award for Valor.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
now normally civilians can't win this award but for him they made an exception his daughter would later say he did that day what he did every day he protected the safety and well-being of his soldiers parents and co-workers no matter what the cost dr kahil was remembered for his love of books and old movies an old co-worker would write on his obituary he had a great sense of humor and mild manner
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
both of which were calming to soldiers going into the combat zone and those who had recently returned. He spent a lifetime in the service of soldiers and enhanced the health and welfare of numerous individuals who, unknowingly, will bear the legacy he established. Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on Instagram, Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But let's get back to the story.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
It's Thursday, November 5th, 2009 in Killeen, Texas. And within this town is a military base called Fort Hood. On this day in particular, over 300 soldiers were crowded inside the base's Soldier Readiness Processing Center. Typically, before a soldier gets deployed, they'll go here to ensure that everything is ready for deployment.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Back inside the SRP center, the gunman continued firing at people all around him. Staff Sergeant Tuan Nguyen said that when the shots first rang out, he thought it was a drill, but then he saw the blood, the overwhelming amount of blood that began to cover the floors.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Tuan later said that he dropped to the ground and attempted to crawl to safety, but he suddenly saw the flash of a red laser, followed by a sharp pain in his upper left thigh. He had been shot, but luckily he was able to crawl to a nearby cubicle. However, from this position, he watched as several other soldiers were shot. Right next to him, Specialist Kiara Bono was shot in the head.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Tuan would later recall that he saw spurts of blood coming out of her head wound. Surprisingly, Kiara would make it out alive. but she would face a lifetime of issues due to her injury. Another nearby soldier who was shot was Specialist Dana Roscoe Ferguson. When the shooting first started, she dropped to the ground and kept quiet, hoping that the shooter wouldn't see her.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But soon enough, he approached and towered over her as she laid on the ground. Horrifically, he aimed the gun right at her face. Hoping to shield her head, Dana put her arms over her face as the gunman fired several shots. Luckily, she didn't suffer from any head wounds, but she was shot twice in the arm and once in the leg. Dana would end up surviving the shooting, unlike countless others.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The center has a number of services like dental and eye exams, hearing tests, vaccinations, and physicals. They even help you set up your wills and life insurance. just in case you're killed in the line of duty.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, like we mentioned, most of the victims were in the waiting room of the SRP center, but soon enough, there was no one left to shoot out there. So the gunman then made his way towards the back offices, where people had been getting examinations. A man named Marquest Smith had gone there that afternoon to get an allergy shot.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Before the shooting started, he had just been called into the back offices when he and the clerk he was with heard the shots. Instinctively, he grabbed her arm and they took cover under a nearby desk. Neither of them knew exactly what was going on, and when the sounds of gunfire finally paused, Marquess decided to peek his head out to see what happened.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
However, that image would haunt him for the rest of his life. All around the room, bodies covered the floors. There was more blood than he had ever seen in his life, and the wounded were screaming. However, there were still people trying to take the gunman down, one being Specialist Frederick Green.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Specialist Frederick Green was just 29 years old. He was described by others as a quiet and intelligent man who deeply cared for the people in his life. Growing up in East Tennessee, Frederick sang for his church's choir, and he spent a lot of time reading the Bible.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
His family would later say that as a young boy, he was constantly playing with army men, and he knew from a young age that that's exactly what he would be when he grew up. In 2008, he finally fulfilled that dream and joined the army. In his free time, Frederick loved to read, play Dungeons and Dragons, and spend time with his wife and two kids.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
His mother said that he'll be remembered as a kind, gentle, and humble man, a dedicated soldier, and a wonderful son. The world has lost an amazing hero, and a true hero he was. Following the shooting, the army would also recognize his bravery that day. General Edward Daly would say, Today we remember his active courage that prevented an even greater tragedy from unfolding that day.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He took heroic actions to charge the shooter during that terrorist attack. We will never forget his sacrifice that day.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
19-year-old Aaron Namalka grew up in Utah. Originally, his plan was to do missionary work for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. After all, that's what all of his older brothers and sisters did. But as he grew up, he had other plans for his life. He wanted to follow in his grandpa's footsteps and join the army.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
After enlisting, many of his fellow soldiers called him Milkman due to his last name. Everyone said that he had the best sense of humor and deep respect for his country. which is exactly why he decided to join the military. Aaron also loved his family. He even got his last name tattooed on his arm in big letters.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But they all laughed at him because, upside down, the tattoo looked like it read the name Thomas. His girlfriend Kristen would later say, At the time of the shooting,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
aaron had just completed his training in disarming explosives and he was sent to leave for his first line of duty overseas months prior aaron had talked to his grandpa michael about his job his grandpa said i asked him it's kind of dangerous isn't it and he said oh it's all right grandpa he loved what he was doing he thought what he was doing was the greatest thing in life after the shooting his father would tell reporters his mission is completed in this life he now serves in a higher calling in heaven
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
29-year-old Staff Sergeant Amy Sue Kruger was born and raised in Wisconsin. After graduating from high school, she attended UW Sheboygan. But after the 9-11 terrorist attacks, she decided to put her education on hold and enlist in the Army.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Her mother would later say that she would jokingly tell her daughter that she wouldn't be able to take down Osama bin Laden by herself, to which Amy would always respond, Watch me. At the time, Amy was about a month away from her second deployment to Afghanistan. Her first deployment was in 2003.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
When she came home, she enrolled in school, but then again in 2008, she decided to volunteer for another deployment. Amy had arrived at Fort Hood about a month prior to the shooting to get everything squared away. That afternoon, she had been at the SRP Center to get shots and an eye exam. Amy's family said that she fiercely loved the people in her life.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
She was determined, passionate, and a lot of fun. In her free time, she likes to hang out with friends, shoot pool, play sheep's head volleyball and softball, and she made sure to live every single day to the fullest.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
As Nidal Hasan made his way over to Fort Hood Soldier Readiness Processing Center, many people inside described it as a normal day. But it was particularly busy that day. Nearly every seat in the waiting room was filled. One by one, the staff would call the name of a soldier,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now we weren't able to find any details on exactly what happened in Captain Seeger's death, when or even where he was shot within the building, but we do know some details about his life. Born in Sauk County, Wisconsin, Russell didn't grow up always wanting to join the military like so many people in our story.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In fact, he spent his early years going to school earning a BSN and MSN degree from Marquette University College of Nursing. From there, he worked as a nurse practitioner and an instructor at Bryant and Stratton College. However, over the years, he witnessed just how hard it was for veterans to adjust back into normal life.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And he had a particular interest in working with veterans who had PTSD, and he wanted to do something about it. But that meant he'd have to change his entire career path. So at the age of 47, while many are counting down the years until retirement, Russell decided to join the Army Reserve as an Army Nurse Corps officer.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
at the time of the shooting russell was scheduled to leave for afghanistan in less than a month he had just arrived at fort hood for training his friend tucker said that whether he was in a uniform or not rusty loved helping others in his free time he loved to teach play tennis and spend time with his wife and son his friend tucker said rusty was a deeply spiritual man who felt his calling was to help veterans and soldiers we honor the life and service of captain rusty sieger and trust that his precious memory and inspiring legacy
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
will be carried forward in the lives of his family, his friends, his patients, and his brothers and sisters in arms."
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and they would make their way to the back for an exam at around 1 25 pm 44 year old staff sergeant paul martin walked through the doors and scanned the waiting room for an open seat where he could finish his endless stack of paperwork he had already gone through most of the medical examinations but he still had a few more pages of paperwork to fill out before he could be cleared for deployment to iraq
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Staff Sergeant Justin DeCrow grew up in Plymouth, Indiana. After graduating high school in 1996, he went on to marry his high school sweetheart, Mary Kay. Then after that, he went on to pursue his life dream of joining the Army. His wife would later say, Throughout the years, Justin and Mary Kay would have a daughter while he worked hard as a satellite communications operator-maintainer.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
His friend Christopher Riley said, He was a caring instructor, a great non-commissioned officer, and a strong motivator. I don't think he received the recognition he deserved for all that he did. I hope I can be half the NCO he was. Justin had been living at Fort Hood since September and was about to deploy to Iraq.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
but according to everyone who had the pleasure of meeting him, he made a lasting impact on their lives. His friend Shino would later say, Staff Sergeant DeCrow was a true family man. He was dedicated to his wife, daughter, and the community around him.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Despite the long hours that he worked as an instructor slash squad leader, he dedicated much of his free time to the Golden Harvest Food Bank and the local 4-H club. Staff Sergeant DeCrow always gave his all. He loved the military and soldiering. He lived by setting the example and could always be counted on professionally and personally.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Another friend of his, Michael Hutchings, said, He was the funniest man I ever met. You couldn't be mad around him. He would walk into a room and everyone just lit up. Following his death, many of his loved ones wrote to Facebook about the special memories they had of Justin. In response, his wife wrote, Thank you so much for sharing all of your wonderful memories.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
It is such a comfort to know that he touched so many lives in so many ways. Our daughter Kyla and I appreciate all of the kindness and support that we've received. He truly was one in a million, and we love him so much. His infectious charm and wit always put others at ease. He will be greatly missed.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories, and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
luckily paul spotted an open seat in the fourth row where he could sit down and complete the forms so paul shuffled past a row of people and sat down completely lost in his own thoughts the room was mostly quiet with only the sound of shuffling papers and the low hum of conversation
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America. and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The links are in the description of this show and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The last soldier to lose their life at the SRP Center was 22-year-old specialist Jason Dean Hunt, or JD, as his loved ones called him. Jason grew up in Frederick, Oklahoma, and according to everyone that knew him, he was the nice but quiet guy who kept to himself. In fact, he was even voted most quiet in his 2005 graduating class.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Jason's sister Layla would later say that when Jason was in high school, they had to dissect a cat, and he was so disturbed by it, he got his mom to drive up to the school and sign a form to have him exempt from the dissection. But that was just the kind of person Jason was. He didn't feel right cutting up a dead animal.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
His grandmother, Kay Smith, said, After graduating high school, Jason decided to join the military. His family said that he thought it would shape him into a man.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
As the chaos continued inside, specialist Elliot Valdez, a photographer at Fort Hood, had been outside the Howes Theater setting up equipment for a graduation when he witnessed several people screaming as they rushed out of the S Center. At first, he didn't understand what was happening, but then he saw wounded soldiers lying around.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He would later say, "...they already had a lot of people out in the grass and field, working on people. A lot of people had their ACU tops off, using them as bandages, wraps, trying to stabilize people." It was pretty noisy, a lot of people running from inside running to the parking lot.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
About 10 minutes into the shooting, base commanders announced the Force Protection Condition Delta, which is a system used to respond to terrorism against the military. From there, they went on Fort Hood's loudspeaker and told everyone in the area to take cover, get away from windows, lock their doors, and hide. Nearby schools and daycares in Killeen were also put on lockdown.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And soon enough, everyone in town learned that a terrorist attack was taking place at Fort Hood.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
After taking down the gunman, Major Steven Richter ran over to him. There was a bullet hole directly in the shooter's chest. He was lying unconscious in the grass. But just to be safe, he picked up the shooter's gun to move it away from him. He would later say that the barrel was so hot it burned his fingers.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But from here, he quickly ripped off the gunman's shirt and shoved his index finger into the gunshot wound to stop the bleeding. At the end of the day, they wanted this man to pay for his actions, which meant that they had to try and keep him alive.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Two miles away at the Darnell Medical Center, hospital staff had not been prepared for the influx of patients they were about to receive. In fact, when the wounded started to arrive, most of the emergency staff had been outside smoking cigarettes, but they would soon have to spring into action.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The Darnell Medical Center was so overwhelmed, Bell County Dispatch had to contact the world-class trauma center in nearby Temple, Texas, called Scott & White Medical Center. And luckily, they immediately sent out their trauma teams to help. At the hospital, physicians, surgeons, and operating rooms were made ready for the wounded.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In fact, Scott and White had decided to close their doors to the public so they could solely focus on the Fort Hood victims. The severely wounded were airlifted in army choppers and taken to Scott and White. Disturbingly, the shooter himself was a part of this group. Now, many of the people being airlifted were too wounded to be aware of their surroundings.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
but think about how scary it would be to look over and see the gunman lying next to you in a helicopter.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Photographs were taken of Nadal's apartment, dumpsters were removed for evidence, and neighbors were questioned. Investigators confiscated several items left behind by Nadal, including a large paper shredder, a white prayer cap, old prescriptions including a 2001 prescription for Combovir, an HIV medication, empty ammunition boxes, an empty laser box, and other items.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
At the crime scene, investigators discovered 146 spent shell casings inside, 69 outside, and Nadal had 177 unspent rounds still inside his pockets when he was taken into custody.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Major Parrish needs to see you immediately. It's an emergency.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nadal's aunt, Nawal Hassan, would later tell reporters that Nadal must have snapped because he was never known to be violent or angry. His nephew, Muhammad Hassan, added that the army was partially to blame due to their insensitivity to Islam, saying, But for most of Nadal's family members, they condemned his actions, saying they were despicable and deplorable.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and that they had not been raised to act out in violence. His cousin, Nader Hassan, was even more shocked as the two had always been close. There had never been any indication that Nadal was violent, and in a later documentary, he would say that he believed that Nadal was suffering from an undiagnosed mental illness.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
As for Nadal's one friend, Dwayne Reasoner, he told the BBC that he had no pity for the soldiers who had been instructed to kill Muslims in the Middle East. and that he would never condemn Nadal for his actions. And like we mentioned in Part 1, Nadal had been in contact over the years with Anwar al-Awlaki, who has ties to Al-Qaeda and several other terrorists.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And after the shooting, Anwar al-Awlaki would write on his blog that Nadal was a hero for what he had done. He stated, "...working in the American army to kill Muslims is a betrayal to Islam. The American Muslims' loyalty is to the Muslim nation and not to America." and brother Nidal is proof of that through his blessed operation.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He would go on to say, Nidal Hasan was one of my students, and I am proud of that. I am proud of Nidal Hasan, and this was a heroic and wonderful act. Other radicalized Muslims also praised Nidal for what he had done on various social media sites, and one man even ordered an arrangement of flowers to be delivered to Nidal's hospital room.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But as word spread through the Islamic community that one of their own had committed the mass murder, they were swift to condemn his actions through online statements. The Council on American Islamic Relations stated, We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
No religious or political ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
something that upset a lot of people was that the department of defense labeled this massacre as workplace violence instead of an act of terrorism but in their investigation they revealed how unprepared the military was for an internal threat some of the key points found were that there had been failures that allowed nadal to remain undetected despite multiple warning signs including his extremist views and correspondence with al-laki
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
highlighted gaps that failed to recognize and address inside threats they suggested stricter protection measures for the military enhanced security protocols threat assessments and how to move forward by recognizing red flags when a service member may be showing signs of radicalization ultimately they made 79 recommendations for improvement personnel force protection information sharing emergency response and health affairs
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
November 10, 2009. On that day, the 13 victims of the massacre were honored at a memorial service. On the podium up front were pictures of the deceased, next to 13 pairs of empty military boots, 13 rifles, and 13 helmets. President Obama addressed the nation at the memorial service, and in part he said, This is a time of war. Yet these Americans did not die on a foreign field of battle.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
They were killed here on American soil, in the heart of this great state, in the heart of this great American community. This is the fact that makes the tragedy even more painful, even more incomprehensible. For those families who have lost a loved one, no words can fill the void that's been left. We knew these men and women as soldiers and caregivers.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
You knew them as mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, sisters and brothers. But here's what you must also know. Your loved ones endure through the life of our nation. Their memory will be honored in the places they lived and by the people they touched. Their life's work is our security and the freedom that we all too often take for granted.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Every evening that the sun sets on a tranquil town, every dawn that a flag is unfurled, every moment that an American enjoys life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that is their legacy. It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy, but this much we do know. No faith justifies these murderous and craven acts. No just and loving God looks upon them with favor.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
For what he has done, we know that the killer will be met with justice, in this world and the next.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The 44-year-old Staff Sergeant, Paul Martin, who we mentioned earlier, said that when the shots first rang out, he thought it was some sick kind of prank. He even thought that someone had been shooting a paintball gun, but then he felt a sharp pain in his arm. A pain way stronger than anything he had felt before. Instinctively, he grabbed his arm.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I would like to begin by repenting to Almighty Allah and apologize to the Mujahideen, the believers and the innocent. I ask for their forgiveness and their prayers. I ask for their forgiveness for participating in the illegal and immoral aggression against Muslims, their religion, and deception of many innocent men, women, and children.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
As a United States Army psychiatrist, my job was to conserve the fighting strength of military armed forces personnel, and by deceit, to win the hearts and minds of Muslims throughout the world. Using American Muslim soldiers such as myself to help win the hearts and minds of native and desperate Muslims around the world is a powerful strategy indeed.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I saw and heard how we would give money to Muslim politicians and support projects like the building of schools and mosques so we could ultimately dictate what is said, read, and done. and I am too ashamed to even mention the clandestine and covert operations that have already occurred or are still in progress about the Muslim world.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
My complicity was on behalf of a government that openly acknowledges that it would hate for the law of Almighty Allah to be the supreme law of the land.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I would like to thank those champions of Islam for awakening me from my slumber, for educating and inspiring me for trying to establish the law of Almighty Allah as supreme for future generations, and for serving as role models on how Muslims should stand up against tyranny and oppression.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
These champions of Islam, or the Mujahideen, they are spread out across the globe in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and other parts of the world. Ask Almighty Allah to unite the believers as one solid fighting structure and not allow the enemies of His plan divide us.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, before that day would come, Nadal wrote several lengthy statements that he wanted to read in court with his reasoning behind the attack. First, he stated that he had wanted to help the Mujahideen against the enemies of Islam, but had a dilemma with breaking an oath he took to defend the United States.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Apparently, in Islam, the breaking of a contract or oath is a sin, but he believed that the violence had been just since he was doing it in the name of Allah to protect Islam and Muslims. Nadal wrote, To the court and members of this panel, thank you for providing this opportunity so that I may address you as well as family and friends of those who died and were injured on November 5th, 2009.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
When he looked down, he could see blood oozing between his fingers. And it was at that moment when he realized he had been shot. Paul was sitting in the fourth row, so he was actually one of the first people shot. And he knew right then that he needed to think quickly if he wanted to make it out alive. After dropping to the ground, Paul closed his eyes and he played dead.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
I understand that many of you may turn away from me in anger because of my actions. I recognize that nothing I can do or say will ever fully restore your losses, erase your agony, or ease your despair, all of which I have brought upon you. but I ask you to listen attentively because it's important for you to understand my actions and specifically why I am making an apology.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
On November 5th, 2009, I committed an act in an attempt to defend my religion. The US is engaged in a war against Islam and as multiple surveys affirm, this belief is not particular to me, but shared by a majority of Muslims worldwide. I am an American, but God commands me to be Muslim first and foremost.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But even as an American, my actions seem more palatable knowing that a majority of international legal scholars, as well as many American legal scholars, and even graduates of West Point thought that the attack in Iraq was illegal. Similar reasoning can also be applied to the attack in Afghanistan. And as a Muslim, I can never engage in a fight against God.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
It's one thing for the US to say they don't want God's law to reign supreme as the law of the land, but to try and enforce that philosophy in Muslim lands is not acceptable. But in my zeal to help the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and post-Saddam Iraq, I made an error. I broke an explicit covenant, my oath of office, that I took voluntarily, not under duress.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Muslims in the US have been my harshest critics in this regard. I am not an Islamic scholar and regret both making a covenant that had the potential to force me to fight against my religion, and I now regret breaking such an inviolable oath that led to the deaths and injuries that I will now be held accountable to Almighty God. For that, I apologize.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nadal would later renounce his United States citizenship and disassociate himself with the oath that he took to protect the United States in the military. Perhaps this made him feel better about what he had done, but for Nadal's family members, they would soon discover that his actions affected their lives as well.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In the years after the shooting, everyone in America was patiently waiting for Nadal's trial to come around. But they would face some problems along the way. On August 22, 2012, after his trial had already been delayed, Nadal started growing out his beard. He said that the beard represented his Islamic faith.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Nadal's Imam would tell the court that the beard was a sincere personal religious conviction. However, Army prosecutors believed it differently. They thought it was a way for Nadal to prevent witnesses at the SRP Center to positively identify him as the attacker.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, this may have been a bit of a reach, as this really isn't a whodunit type trial, but in the end, the presiding judge stated that if Nadal did not shave his beard, then it would be forcibly shaved. The back and forth regarding Nadal's beard continued for months, which ended up causing several delays with Nadal's trial.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And with every delay, the victim's family members were growing more and more impatient, which is understandable. These trials tend to loom over the people affected by these murders. Many people just want to get it over with so they can start healing. So in the end, the courts ended up allowing Nadal to keep his beard.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, in the military, they have strict rules about facial hair, so him growing a long beard almost seemed like a message. A message that Nadal had completely distanced himself from his military past. Judge Colonel Tara Osborne warned Nadal that the military jurors might not have any mercy on him if he kept his beard.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But Nadal didn't care, because in the end, he already knew that he would be found guilty.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Interestingly, the judge wouldn't allow any of the emails between Nadal and Anwar al-Awlaki to be presented in court. Now, by this point, Awlaki had actually been killed in a US drone strike in 2011, but the prosecution wanted to show it to the jury to show how radicalized Nadal had become. But in the end, I guess they wouldn't need it.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Ultimately, Nadal did not present a defense in his trial, and on August 21st, he rested his case. The next day, August 22nd, Colonel Steve Hendricks issued a 90-minute closing statement, where he reiterated that Nadal had murdered as many people as he could, choosing the SRP Center because it was very busy. a fact that Nadal had written in a note to himself.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
According to Colonel Hendricks, Nadal had been motivated by two things, murder as many American soldiers as possible and avoid deployment to Afghanistan. They argued that Nadal was in fact a homegrown terrorist. Over 11 days, 90 witnesses had testified, and the jury heard horrific stories from the people who had been inside the SRP Center on the day of the shooting.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
On August 23rd, after only six hours of deliberations, the jury found Nidal Hasan guilty of 45 counts of premeditated murder and attempted murder. The verdict came only a few weeks shy of Nidal's 43rd birthday.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
On February 6, 2015, Secretary of the Army John McHugh announced that all the victims during the Fort Hood Massacre, as well as the wounded, would receive the Purple Heart Medal. Civilians who were hurt or wounded would receive the Secretary of Defense Medal for the Defense of Freedom, an honor that is equivalent to the Purple Heart for soldiers.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
John McHugh stated, "...the Purple Heart's strict eligibility criteria had prevented us from awarding it to victims of the horrific attack at Fort Hood." Now that Congress has changed the criteria, we believe there is sufficient reason to allow these men and women to be awarded and recognized with either the Purple Heart or in the case of civilians, the Defense of Freedom Medal.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
It's an appropriate recognition of their service and sacrifice. In addition, the Fort Hood massacre was reclassified from workplace violence to an act of terrorism after victims, their family members and lawmakers urged legislative changes within the National Defense Authorization Act. and lawmakers urged legislative changes within the National Defense Authorization Act.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
The failure to acknowledge the shooting as terrorism had prevented family members of the victims and the wounded to receive the same benefits as those who lost a loved one in combat. Shockingly, these changes took six years to complete.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Now, like we mentioned in Part 1, Nadal started becoming more radicalized after his mother died. Nadal has since corresponded with researcher Catherine Poppy, in which she has indicated that he believed his mother's soul would be saved if he followed through with his jihadist quest to murder his fellow soldiers.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Apparently, Nadal had battled with the idea that his mother's soul would go to hell because she had sold alcohol at the family convenience store. But despite his reasoning to justify his actions,
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
fort hood massacre will go down in history as the worst mass shooting at an american military base and also as a brutal act of lone terrorism following the shooting the town of killeen has tried to move on and heal from this tragedy the apartments where nadal lived even changed their name from casa del norte apartments to las palmas but no matter how hard they try to move on it's been difficult especially because over the years killeen texas has had many more tragedies
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
In fact, another mass shooting would take place at Fort Hood in 2014, which took the lives of four people, including the gunmen. And don't worry, we're going to talk about all of that in next week's episode.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
today courtney and i will be making a donation to the wounded warrior project a group that helps fund and provide mental health care long-term rehabilitation care career counseling and transition benefits for post 9 11 veterans who have returned home from iraq and afghanistan Hey, everybody. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. This story is just crazy.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
It's infuriating all the warning signs they missed. The way that the government handled this entire thing, honestly, is shameful. Obviously, it should have been classified as a terrorist attack. Immediately. I just still can't believe it took six years to get to that point.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
But in the next coming weeks, as we dive even deeper into Fort Hood and the culture of violence and the mysterious suicides and the deaths and the whistleblowers that have existed there, I think you guys are going to have your minds blown because this is... Yeah, we're getting into some dark and murky waters here, and it's really, really interesting stuff.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
If you love the show and you want to help support us, please consider joining us on Patreon. If you sign up on Patreon, you can get access to bonus episodes of the show. These are full-length episodes of Murder in America, just like the one you just listened to with Courtney and I and, you know, sound design and music and everything.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and on patreon you can also get early free access to every episode that we post so you could have heard this episode before it dropped on our main feed there's just a ton of perks we love everybody on there and we're so thankful that everyone has chosen to join us also don't Don't forget to leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening to your podcasts.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
And as always, follow us on Instagram at Murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover here on the show. These next few episodes, I have been really looking forward to getting into, so stay tuned. It's about to get wild. But thank y'all. I'm Colin Brown. We love you guys, and I'll catch y'all on the next one.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
As a little background, Cam Jong was originally born in Thailand, but he came to America when he was just a few years old. Growing up in St. Paul, Minnesota, Cam always knew that he wanted to join the military. After all, he came from a military family.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
According to Find a Grave, his dad and grandpa fought bravely against the Vietnamese communist forces with the support of the CIA in Laos during the Vietnam War. As a result of these actions, they were forced to flee their homeland after US military forces withdrew from Southeast Asia in 1975.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Cam came to the US as a toddler, but even at a young age, he realized the commitment and sacrifices that his father and grandfather had made for their families and their people. Growing up, Cam told his father and grandfather about his desire to follow in their footsteps and serve his country. And that's exactly what he would do.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
After high school graduation, Cam married his high school sweetheart, and the two would have three kids together. He and his family had been living in Killeen for the past five months, as he was prepared for his deployment to Iraq. According to Find a Grave, Cam saw the military as a way to give back to his country, to help his family have a better life.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
and to continue the legacy and tradition that started with his beloved father and grandfather's commitment to freedom. Any short-term suffering and separation from his family would be offset by the numerous opportunities that would open up as a result of his military service.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Sadly, Cam will not be able to capitalize on any opportunities that the military has for him, he will not be able to help his family like he wished, and he will not be able to hear his friends and families tell him how proud they are of him. Cam was tragically killed doing the only thing he knew, helping others without regards to his own situation or safety.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
He embraced his responsibilities to his family, his people, and his country. Few people would do the same thing under the same circumstances. Cam showed the world through his actions what his beliefs and values are.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
Staff Sergeant Patrick Ziegler was later rushed to the hospital where he would undergo one of several brain surgeries. And during this one, they had to remove part of his brain. Patrick would suffer from his injuries for years after the shooting. He would later say, after every brain surgery, I'd be set back to the point where I'd have to relearn. I've had to relearn how to walk four times.
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
sadly patrick also had to give up on his dream of becoming an officer he would later say i went through the complicated steps to re-enlist while i was a wounded warrior in the hopes that i would be able to reclassify or something like that but it looks like i'll be medically retiring once my medical boards are complete but patrick was at the end of the day
Murder In America
Title: EP. 188: TEXAS - The Ft. Hood Mass Shooting: A Terrorist Attack From The Inside (Pt. 2)
grateful that he made it out alive that day, as many others didn't. The following year, he was also able to marry his wife, Jessica. The wedding was actually set up by the show Extreme Makeover Home Edition, and despite doctors telling him that he may never have children, the two would go on to have a son named Liam.
Murder In America
205: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 3)
Wenn jemand Charles und Melanie gesagt hätte, dass sie nach ihrem Tinder-Match gemeinsam einen Channel mit crazy Aufgaben starten, also wirklich crazy, fünf Tage auf einer einsamen Insel verbringen, eine Zipline an einem Gurt runterrasen, eine Million Views knacken, eine Wand mit Saugnöpfen hochklettern und Fallschirmspringen in Ägypten? Das hätten die beiden niemals geglaubt.
Murder In America
205: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 3)
Aber das ist das Ding mit Tinder. Es führt dich an Orte, die du nie erwartet hättest. Wohin es dich auch führt. It starts with a swipe. Tinder.
Murder In America
205: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 3)
Did you say anything to him?
Murder In America
205: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 3)
Manchmal ist es der kleine Alex, der zu mir kommt und mit mir spricht. Und ich kann ihn aufnehmen und so. Und ich bin einer der Glücklichsten. Ich habe, weißt du, Träume über ihn. Und er lässt mich wissen, wie er es macht und ist da, wenn ich ihn brauche. Manchmal ägt er sich sogar während der Zeit.
Murder In America
205: COLORADO - The “Dark Knight Rises” Movie Theater Shooting (PT. 3)
Er beginnt als kleiner Kerl und ist dann, weißt du, und dann am Ende, weißt du, er kommt und dann ist es so, ich muss auf den Vater gehen.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And following this, they actually removed Shane from the home. They also required the entire family, including Ashley, to attend counseling sessions to work through their issues.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
During this year, he started breaking into homes, stealing whatever valuables he could find inside. After breaking in, he would sometimes even shower and eat some of their food. Now, it was reported that he would only break into the homes of people he knew, sometimes they were even friends of his. And because Welch was such a small town, everyone knew that Shane Freeman was responsible.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But because he had such a hard home life, some people wouldn't even report the break-ins. Shane had already gone through so much and they didn't want him to go to jail. According to his dad, Danny, he did some stealing, but he just wasn't violent. But Shane's criminal behavior escalated in early January 1999.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
According to reports, Shane's grandmother, Celesta Chandler, allowed him to take her truck for a few hours, but he never returned it. Instead, Shane stole the truck and used it to pull people over on the highway. He actually purchased a red flashing light like the ones police officers use, and he put it on his grandma's stolen car.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Then at night, while driving down US Highway 69 towards Louisiana, Shane would pull people over. During one incident, he pulled over a young woman named Sabrina Shivers, and when he walked up to her vehicle, he told her he was a rookie cop, which made sense because he looked really young.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But during this fake traffic stop, a real police officer actually pulled up, and from there, Shane immediately hopped back into his grandma's car and took off down the road.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Moments later, backup arrived, including Deputy Troy Messick, who had worked with Shane in the past. He was the officer that located Shane after he ran away. But when Deputy Messick arrived at the scene, he said that his coworker was white as a ghost. Deputy Hayes explained the situation and admitted that he had acted in self-defense.
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Apparently, Deputy Hayes had ordered Shane to drop the weapon and put his hands in the air, but he refused, and the officer had no other choice but to protect himself. They had to undergo the difficult task of informing Shane's family. As you can imagine, when Danny and Kathy Freeman learned of their son's passing, they were absolutely devastated.
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When they heard the details of what happened, they didn't believe it. They agreed that Shane had issues, but he was never violent. So the story of him aiming a gun at Deputy Hayes just didn't make sense to them. Danny would later say, one cop, one shot, one 17-year-old kid. The deputy had backup coming. Why didn't he wait on backup? Didn't he have tear gas or something?
Murder In America
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And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
However, despite the results of the investigation into Shane's death, his parents, Danny and Kathy Freeman, weren't convinced. They even threatened to file a wrongful death lawsuit against the Craig's County Sheriff's Department. But Danny Freeman had a lot on his hands at this time.
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In fact, in March of 1999, just months after his son's death, he had to go on trial for the child abuse charges he faced for whipping Shane with that telephone cord. But in the end, Danny would be acquitted, and when he returned back home, there was even more tension between him and the Craig County Sheriff's Department. It was reported that he became obsessed with the deputy who killed his son.
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He began following David Hayes around town, and he even parked outside of his house and would watch his family and children. When investigators learned what Danny was up to, they were concerned that Danny was trying to get revenge. So from there, they had a group of officers that would park near his trailer to keep an eye on him.
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Now, Danny Freeman was very vocal about his thoughts on the Craig County Sheriff's Department, and he would speak to the media whenever he could. In his mind, the deputies were harassing him so that he and his family would move out of town. And his wife Kathy believed this as well.
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She was so overwhelmed by the constant police presence outside their home, she even started looking into buying a home in Louisiana. But eventually, they changed their minds. Welch was their home, and they weren't going to let the sheriff's department drive them out of town. But Kathy did write a letter to the department.
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In it, she said, Shane was shot at 4.30 p.m., but we were not notified until 10.15 p.m. by Sheriff Vaughn. If the law did everything right, it was still wrong. The whole community of Welch and surrounding area knows this was wrong and they also want something done. Everyone that knows Shane believes that he wouldn't have pulled a gun.
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David Hayes took drastic measures and he, along with the whole sheriff's department needs to be held accountable.
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the Craig County deputies have a bad attitude and they think they can get away with everything they've been defensive from the start harassed us and tried to intimidate us she went on to criticize other things they did like how they removed the flower and wooden cross that their family put up in Shane's memory so as you can see the year 1999 was a very stressful year for the Freeman family Danny was still working on filing that wrongful death lawsuit
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but he needed about $5,000 to hire an attorney. And the clock was ticking, because if he was going to file it, he had to do it before January 8, 2000, which was right around the corner. But early enough, it's also around this time when Danny told his brother that if anything happened to him, the Craig County Sheriff's Department was responsible.
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Apparently, Kathy Freeman had mentioned the same thing to one of her close friends, a nurse named DeAnna Dorsey.
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Hey, everybody. Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
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So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story. Shout us out on X. Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much, helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
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But let's get back to the story.
Murder In America
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This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, for most of Ashley's birthday, the girls were out of the house. The Freeman trailer did not have running water. It did have a telephone and electricity, but the Freemans preferred to live a life that was kind of off the grid. Their main heating source was a wood-burning stove that was located in the living room. And for food, they mostly ate the food that they hunted.
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but Ashley's birthday was a special occasion. So that night for dinner, Kathy Freeman took them to get Pizza Hut. According to reports, after dinner, they went by Big Bill's Barbecue on North Wilson Street in Veneta. Then after that, they drove to the feed store to pick up some food for their livestock. Then they stopped by Kathy's mother's house to pick up water.
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from here ashley wanted to meet up with her boyfriend jeremy hurst he had gotten her a birthday present and he wanted to give it to her so kathy drove the girls to the local walmart once there jeremy gave ashley a heart-shaped pendant necklace embedded with a turquoise stone kathy also picked up a pre-ordered cake that she had purchased for ashley's birthday
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Around this time, Lorene Bible drove to Veneta, where she worked as a manager at the local McDonald's. But when she walked into work, she had no idea that her entire life was about to change. Around 7.30 that morning, her son, Bradley Bible, called her to let her know that there was a fire at the Freeman residence.
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And immediately, she was so worried, she hung up the phone and tried to get in touch with Laura.
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the call went unanswered a few minutes later a deputy from craig county sheriff's department arrived at the mcdonald's and took laureen to a back room once inside he told her to sit down but laureen refused to sit what happened she asked frantically the deputy took a deep breath and that's when he told her that the freeman house had burned to the ground
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Welch, Oklahoma, a small rural community located in the northeastern part of the state. With a population of only a few hundred people, Welch has a classic small-town feel. People are close to their neighbors, they support the small businesses in town, and they look out for each other.
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and inside they found a body a body as in they only found one person now laureen knew the layout of the freeman trailer so she asked the deputy where the body had been located and that's when he told her that the body had been found in the front room and for a moment the reen felt a sense of relief the front room was danny and kathy's bedroom so hopefully that meant that laura and ashley were okay
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There's one small school system, Welch Public Schools, that has a total of around 286 students in grades pre-K to 12. Needless to say, life in Welch is simple and quiet, and there's a strong sense of community. Now, about 15 minutes away from Welch is the town of Veneta. Although it's larger, with a population of a few thousand, the town of Veneta still has the small-town atmosphere.
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now as donna warren was leaving the scene laureen bible spotted her and she actually knew donna so she ran over to her hoping to get some answers could you tell who the victim was she asked donna admitted that she wasn't allowed to give her much information but that the body was of an older female likely kathy freeman and as you can imagine this confirmation was a bit of relief for laureen and jay who had been waiting around for hours but nothing here was adding up
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As investigators continued to work the crime scene, they couldn't ignore the fact that three people who were supposed to have been in the house were unaccounted for. By 5 p.m., Kathy's body was finally removed from the home. But after going through the rubble, investigators were confident that Danny Freeman, Ashley Freeman, and Laura Bible weren't there. But where could they be?
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Surprisingly, at around 6pm, an hour after Kathy's body was removed from the scene, investigators removed the crime scene tape and released the property and trailer back to the family. Keep in mind, this is just 12 hours after the fire was reported. Here, they have a murdered woman and three missing people and they just leave.
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Now, by this point, investigators did have a theory on what happened here.
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since danny freeman was missing the initial belief was that he had murdered kathy set the trailer on fire to destroy evidence and then fled the scene now as for where ashley and laura were investigators had no idea maybe danny took the girls with him even danny's brother duane wondered if he was responsible danny was known to be quick-tempered and at times volatile but by this point everyone was still holding on to hope that the girls were alive
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Not finding them in the fire was a good sign, for lack of a better word. So that night, OSBI called Laura's parents to come down to the station to answer some questions. And they specifically wanted to know about Danny and Kathy's relationship. Was there any tension in the marriage? Any infidelity? Something that would give Danny motive to kill his wife?
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They even asked Jay about Danny's drug dealings.
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than they were now by this point news of the fire had spread quickly throughout the towns of welch and veneta and like every small town rumors quickly followed there were whispers that danny had abducted the girls and given them to a criminal organization one person even claimed to have seen danny in a white pickup truck with both ashley and laura in the back seat a neighbor came forward and told investigators that they had seen danny in a remote cabin outside of town
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Described as the second-oldest city in Oklahoma, tourists flock to the area for their roadside attractions, famous chicken fried steak, and easy access to Grand Lake. However, like every town in America, Welch and Vanita have their share of problems, and these two have had a history of methamphetamine abuse.
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the freeman family actually had a cabin that danny and his brother duane grew up in so this theory didn't seem too far-fetched danny's brother duane even offered to go up to the cabin to speak with danny but the police told him not to they told duane that it was too cold and dark and that they would approach the idea first thing in the morning which is crazy because if that was true why wait until the morning
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Around the same time that Danny's body was discovered, his brother Dwayne had also returned to the property. As he made his way up the half-mile gravel driveway, he saw Jay Bible frantically waving his arms in the air and pointing to an area inside the trailer. Dwayne parked his car and rushed over to Jay. Together, they walked to the bedroom, and he was shown the charred remains of his brother.
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Over the years, the large and secluded prairie lands have allowed meth cookers and users to hide their drug operations. According to the National Drug Intelligence Center in 2002, methamphetamine production continues to be a significant problem in Oklahoma.
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Duane immediately knew that the body belonged to Danny because there was a metallic shine in the skull area. Years before the fire, Danny had accidentally discharged a powder gun in his face and had to have certain sections replaced with metal plates, and his sinuses were reconstructed with mesh and metal wiring.
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Duane also said that after the accident, Danny suffered from severe migraines and that this incident was around the time that Danny started to take on a violent temper.
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Once the temperatures started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn-out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything. So, we both decided to switch things up, and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints.
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Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
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Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
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Everything with Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.
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Per the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control, methamphetamine laboratory seizures increased dramatically from 34 in 1995 to 1,193 in 2001. But despite these shocking statistics, the vast prairies of Craig County, Oklahoma holds a darker secret, the unsolved disappearance of Laura Bible and Ashley Freeman.
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Go to Quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash America to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash America. And now let's get back to our story.
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Soon enough, the OSBI was back at the Freeman's trailer, and like with Kathy Freeman, they determined that Danny had also been shot at close range in the face with a shotgun. Medical examiner Donna Warren would later confirm that Danny suffered a broken collarbone before the fatal shot, and that the manner of death was homicide.
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Investigators theorized that Danny Freeman had attempted to stop whoever was responsible, and a fight ensued. They believed that Danny had been the primary target, but as for why... They didn't know. Perhaps it was drug-related. Maybe he'd crossed paths with the wrong person. But based on the scene, investigators theorized that after killing Danny, the perpetrator turned the shotgun on Kathy.
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And due to her wound being in the back of her head, they believed she was trying to escape when she was shot and killed. Then, to hide any evidence, the suspect poured gasoline throughout the home and set it on fire. Investigators also believed that Kathy had been killed at around 5 a.m. and that the fire had been burning for nearly one hour before it was reported.
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Slowly but surely, they were beginning to get an idea of what happened here. But there was still one question that remained. Where were Ashley and Laura?
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During the initial investigation, authorities also failed to search Laura's Corsica in the driveway, even though it was unlocked. Volunteers searched the vehicle, but unfortunately, nothing significant was found. By January 1st, 2000, Laureen and Jay Bible had organized a search of the 40-acre property. With the help of the local radio station, Maureen encouraged everyone to come out and help.
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And their community really showed up. Nearly 500 volunteers arrived at the property, ready to help. And for days, they all searched on foot and horseback. People even brought canoes to search the creek behind the trailer. But unfortunately, there was no sign of Ashley or Laura. They also didn't find any clues that could help in the investigation.
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It seemed as if the two girls had simply vanished into thin air. But the community wasn't going to give up just yet. Volunteers started printing thousands of missing persons flyers to put up around town. But it's around this time when Kathy Freeman's mother, Celeste Chandler, introduced a controversial theory as to what may have happened.
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celesta believed that the craig county sheriff's department was responsible for the homicides everyone in town knew that there was tension between law enforcement and the freeman family after the shooting death of their son shane it also came out that in the days before the shooting danny was meeting with attorneys so that he could file that civil lawsuit against the sheriff's department so rumors began circulating that the craig county sheriff's department orchestrated the murders to silence the family
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And, considering how horribly the department handled the investigation, some people still believe this theory. Now, one would think that after mishandling the case so badly in the beginning that investigators would work hard to do better. But sadly, that wasn't the case.
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In the week after the fire, Maureen and Jay Bible were constantly at the sheriff's department doing their part to help in the investigation.
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And something they were concerned about was getting Ashley and Laura's information entered into the National Crime Information Center, which is essentially a database where you can upload the information of missing persons and any law enforcement agency around the country can access it. And on January 6th, Laureen and Jay were told that Ashley and Laura's info had been uploaded to it.
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But two days later, on January 8th, they learned that the police never entered it into the system. For whatever reason, the disappearance of Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible was not a top priority for them, which only sparked more rumors around town that they were somehow involved.
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was also the fact that both danny and kathy had allegedly told people that if anything were to happen to them that the craig county sheriff's department was responsible and some people believed this so in an effort to clear their name the craig county sheriff's department actually ordered deputy david hayes to take a polygraph and again he's the one who shot and killed shane freeman
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But Deputy Hayes passed the exam and was cleared of any wrongdoing. Deputy Hayes left the Craig County Sheriff's Department in the year 2000, and to this day, he's refused to speak about it. But for years, people were convinced that the police were in on this crime.
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On Friday, January 7, 2000, a memorial service was held for both Dani and Kathy Freeman. It was reported that over 400 people showed up to pay their respects. After the service, both were buried in the Timpson Chapel Cemetery in Estella, Oklahoma, next to their son, Shane. But during the entire service, everyone couldn't help but think about, what really happened here?
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After they abandoned the theory that the girls were somehow involved, they focused on the intruder theory. who was now widely believed that someone had come into the Freeman home, shot and killed Danny and Kathy, kidnapped Ashley and Laura, and then burned the trailer down to cover their tracks.
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But with no strong leads in the case, Jay and Lorene Bible and a few of the Freeman relatives contacted the host of America's Most Wanted, John Walsh. A few weeks after their disappearance, the show ran a segment about the girls. And although the airing brought a lot of publicity to the case and hundreds of tips rolled in, all the leads ended up being dead ends.
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soon enough the case would begin to gain some momentum now like we mentioned there had been rumors around town that danny freeman was not only involved in the marijuana business but that he also dabbled in the distribution of methamphetamine several neighbors theorized that it could have been a meth deal gone wrong one neighbor a man named wade sherrick admitted that danny's involvement with drugs was well known
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wade witnessed several cars in the freeman driveway at all hours of the night and it was pretty obvious that they were there to buy drugs because these people never stayed long they were always in and out pretty quickly but because of this some people began to wonder if danny had somehow gotten involved with the cartel after hearing this laureen bible took matters into her own hands she even met up with a suspected member of the cartel and confronted them
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It didn't end up going anywhere, but she was willing to do whatever it took to try and find her daughter, even if that meant putting herself in harm's way.
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According to their report, Ricky had been in and out of the Eastern State Hospital for the insane. But in January 2000, the hospital decided to downsize until they eventually closed their doors entirely. Apparently, Ricky was distraught with his news and he even stopped taking his medication. Then, in a psychotic break, he murdered Deanna.
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Now, we weren't able to figure out why he had specifically asked for Deanna before he shot and killed her, or how he even knew her name in the first place. But the Freeman family was convinced that he had been set up by the Craig County Sheriff's Department, especially because Deanna had done that interview with that TV show shortly before. But of course, there was no evidence of this.
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And once again, investigators were no closer to solving the case of Laura and Ashley.
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If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events,
Murder In America
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pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice, no topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real.
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It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen.
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It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
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That same year, Lorene Bible had received a tip from a truck driver who said that he knew a guy who admitted to abducting Laura and Ashley. The man that allegedly confessed to the kidnapping was named Paul Glover, and he was a known meth cook in Ottawa County.
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But through the grapevine, word got around that Paul Glover had taken the girls, drugged them, sexually assaulted them, took Polaroid photos of the abuse, and then passed them on to the next group of junkies. So once again, investigators obtained a search warrant of the property. And this time around, Lorene and J. Bible were hopeful.
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After all these leads that led nowhere, they were hoping that this one would give them answers. They even waited on the outskirts of the property while investigators searched it. But once again, they were left disappointed. The search did not turn up any evidence, and Paul Glover was cleared as a suspect.
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What do I remember about December 30th? I want to say this. I remember where two bodies are. Well, I believe I could take you to two bodies. I also want to remember a fire.
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years later in 2004 another murderer named jeremy brian jones confessed to the murders now he was in prison after he murdered a woman named lisa nichols on september 17 2004 jeremy broke into lisa's home violently raped her and shot her three times in the head jeremy left lisa's body inside of the bathtub and then doused her in the bathroom in gasoline lit a match and walked away
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
which was eerily similar to what happened with the Freeman family trailer. So when Jeremy confessed to the killings, investigators believed he could potentially have been telling the truth. Jeremy stated that he targeted Danny Freeman that night because he owed his friend drug money. Then after murdering Danny and Kathy,
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
had no idea what to do with ashley and laura so he drove them to galena kansas shot them and dumped their bodies into an abandoned mine shaft so in june of 2005 the osbi craig county sheriff's department and the kansas bureau of investigation traveled to galena kansas to search the abandoned mines where jeremy said he had dumped the bodies ultimately ashley freeman and laura bible were not found
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
nor was there any evidence to indicate that they had been dumped there. And of course, shortly after this, Jeremy Jones recanted his confession. He admitted that the only reason he confessed was because he received special treatment in jail due to his celebrity status. The food was better and he was allowed more phone calls. So once again, the Freeman Bible case hit a dead end.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Today, Jeremy sits on death row at the Holman Correctional Facility in Atmore, Alabama.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
By the end of 2016, there were some changes being made at the Craig County Sheriff's Department. The current sheriff, Jimmy Souter, had lost his bid for re-election, and in 2017, Sheriff Heath Winfrey was elected to take his place. And when he took his position, he made a huge announcement. Sheriff Winfrey told the public that he had found a box at the Craig County Sheriff's Department
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
and inside were several documents regarding the freeman bible case important documents that had been misplaced and forgotten apparently the previous administration at the craig county sheriff's department was supposed to turn over those documents to the osbi but they never did sheriff winfrey said that the items were located in a black milk crate that had essentially been collecting dust
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
as it turned out the answers to this case had been sitting there for nearly 18 years inside the documents were dozens of potential witnesses connected to the freeman bible case who all pointed the finger at three men phil welch david pennington and ronnie busick now as a little background on phil welch pretty much anyone that knew the guy used one word to describe him
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
evil he was well known for beating his girlfriends and children with things like cattle prods and bull whips at some point his wife didn't make his food the way he liked it so he took a hammer to her fingers and there were accusations that he sexually abused his children in the book titled hell in the heartland
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
One of Phil's family members talked about how Phil got his kids to beat up a mentally disabled neighbor of theirs. And if his children refused, they themselves were beaten. His family member stated, he thought it was the funniest thing in the world. Now, Phil was also a meth addict. And when he got high, he would stay up for days on end.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
During that time, he also had religious experiences where he would preach the gospel throughout his day-long benders. And Phil's two right-hand men were Ronnie Busick and David Pennington. Now, all of these men were horrible people with lengthy criminal histories, but Phil was definitely the ringleader. Whatever he said, they did.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And like the other two men, Ronnie Busick was a horrible human being. His own family said that he was known to wear a belt buckle that showed a woman with her legs spread and a large penis aimed directly at her. On the top it read, Ronnie was known to have sex with a lot of women, and at one point he said, If they don't want to give it up, then by God, I fucking take it.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, by 2018, he was actually in jail in Wichita for a parole violation. But soon enough, investigators from Oklahoma were showing up to place him under arrest for his part in the Freeman Bible murders.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
These young ladies' final days were certainly horrific, and today's announcement no doubt comes as little solace to their grief.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Ashley Renee Freeman was born on December 29, 1983, to Danny and Kathy Freeman. And because the town of Veneto was so small, it made sense that the girls would cross paths. In fact, the girls' kindergarten teacher, Kathy Wood, had actually grown up with Laura's father, Jay, and Ashley's mother, Kathy Freeman. Kathy stated, quote, I grew up in Blue Jackets, so I knew both families quite well.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, investigators did try and find the Polaroid pictures that were reportedly in Phil Welch's possession, the ones that showed Laura and Ashley in their final days. But by 2018, they were missing. The men likely destroyed them. But with the many witness accounts, they finally had enough evidence to make an arrest.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
As Ronnie Busick was being transferred to Oklahoma, family members of Laura and Ashley stood outside and were even able to speak with him.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
If he couldn't hear that, Ronnie said, I wish I could. He would also later say that he had a hard time remembering because of all the drug use he had done in the past. He also said that in 1978, he had been shot in the head, which affected his memory. But eventually, while in prison, he would tell investigators exactly what happened on December 30th, 1999. So, let's go back to that horrific night.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
You know everyone's family in a small area like this. I rode the school bus with Ashley's mom and Laura's dad, Jay, and all his brothers and sisters. Laura's family goes to my church, Church of God in Bonita. Laura's uncle lives across the street from us, so she would come over and visit when she was there to see her aunt and uncle.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Another student in the small kindergarten class, Sheena Reese, described Laura as very outgoing. She remembered her as the small girl with blonde ringlets who was extremely smart and an all-around social butterfly. As for Ashley Freeman, Sheena said that she was always quiet, but sweet.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Disturbingly, in the weeks, months, and years after the murders, all three men bragged about what they did that night. According to one witness, Phil even took one of the girls' missing persons flyers and proudly hung it up in his trailer. David Pennington's former girlfriend told investigators that David physically abused her and threatened her life.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
He liked to remind her that he had killed the Freemans during a bad drug deal, and if she stepped out of line, he would kill her too. The witness, referred to as Ali in the affidavit, admitted that she lived with David Pennington after the murders and that he had threatened to kill her if she ever revealed what she knew to the police.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Sadly, there were many witnesses who knew that these three men were responsible, and they were too afraid to come forward themselves, but they had told other people about what they knew. And I guess, through the grapevine, the witnesses' names had been given to the Craig County Sheriff's Department, but they were never looked into.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
The answers to this case had been sitting in a folder for 18 years. And it wasn't until 2017 when investigators finally interviewed the witnesses and learned the truth.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
After Ronnie Busick's arrest, District Attorney Matt Ballard held a press conference where he stated, For 18 years, the community in Craig County and many members of the media have followed the case of the deaths of Kathy and Danny Freeman, the mysterious disappearance of their 16-year-old daughter Ashley Freeman and Ashley's friend, 16-year-old Laura Bible, and the arson of the Freeman family home.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Yesterday, there was an arrest in the case. OSBI investigator Tammy Ferrari and my SVU investigator Gary Stansell, through incredible police work, identified three perpetrators. Now, when the details of Ashley and Laura's final moments were revealed, the girls' families were horrified. It was even more heartbreaking to know that after the fire, the girls had been alive just 25 miles away.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Their families couldn't help but think that if the Craig County Sheriff's Department and OSBI had handled the case better in the early days of the investigation, they may have had a better outcome. But as we know, we can't turn back time. And although their families were relieved to finally have some answers, They weren't going to be satisfied until the bodies of Ashley and Laura were located.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
During the press conference, the Bible stood up and made their own statement. Lorene, her voice filled with emotion, stated, It's been 18 years, 3 months, and 26 days to this point. We're not finished. I will not stop until we bring the girls home.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
And as if this case couldn't get any more heartbreaking, in 2023, Ronnie Busick was released from prison early due to good behavior.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, as you can imagine, the community was outraged when they learned that Ronnie Busick got released from prison after serving only two and a half years. So in February 2024, Oklahoma Representative Steve Bashmore introduced House Bill 2946 that was named Laura and Ashley's Law.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
The bill would require anyone charged with accessory to murder in the first or second degree to serve 85% of their prison sentence before being eligible for release.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Steve Bashmore stated, Family members of the young women killed in this case came to me imploring my help when they realized the person guilty of accessory to murder was to be released after serving so little time in prison for this horrific crime. They're also concerned that he's now free to move about their community in close proximity to their family.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
I'm hoping that no other family going forward will have to go through such a shock after suffering such a devastating loss. But sadly, the bill wasn't passed. And even though Ronnie was cooperative in trying to help find the bodies, he never held up his end of the deal. Ashley and Laura have never been located. And even so, he was still released early.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Laura and Ashley's law finally passed the House Civil Judiciary Committee. However, this is only the first step to getting it implemented.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
If you have any information on the whereabouts of Ashley and Laura, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation urges you to call their tip line at 1-800-522-8017 or email tips at osbi.ok.gov. Hey, everybody. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. Courtney and I are both so glad to have each and every one of you there with us listening every single week.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Now, as a little background on Ashley, she was a big outdoors girl who loved to hunt and fish. She shot her first deer when she was 12 years old from 100 yards away, and she always joined her father when he went deer hunting. And their family loved to find different recipes to cook their deer meat with. But even more so than hunting, Ashley was very good at fishing.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
This story is so heartbreaking. Our hearts just go out to the family members involved in this whole thing. It's always so infuriating to hear these stories, to research these stories, to read and write about these stories.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
where you just see such systemic failure from authorities especially in a case like this where it seems like they just really didn't care about getting this crime solved and you know you hate to hypothesize but in so many of these cases if action would have been taken earlier things would have come to a much quicker ending.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
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EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Also, don't forget to leave us a five-star review on Apple podcast or Spotify or wherever you listen to this show. Follow us on Instagram at murder in America to see photos from every single case that we cover. And yeah, Thank you all for listening. Courtney and I appreciate each and every one of you so much, and I'll catch you all on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
It was something that she and her grandfather bonded over ever since she was a little girl.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
now her grandpa glenn lived in new orleans but every summer she would fly out and spend months with him on his 45-foot commercial fishing boat that he took out into the gulf of mexico ashley was a natural it didn't matter how hot it was outside she never complained glenn would later say she was the best little gal that ever got around she was dandy
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
In the morning I'd say, Ashley, what do you want to do today? And she'd say, I don't know, Papa, what do you want to do? I'd say, work on the boat. And she'd say, okay, let's go work on the boat. She'd get blue paint in that reddish blonde hair of hers, but she didn't mind a bit. The next day, same thing, but I'd say fishing. And she'd say, okay, let's go fishing.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
During one outing, Glenn admitted that it was too hot for him to fish, so he suggested that they call it a day. But Ashley wasn't ready to quit. She kept saying, let me just catch one more. Now, when Ashley wasn't catching fish in the marsh, she liked to catch alligators that she would hook and release. And Glenn warned her that even the smallest of alligators could bite her fingers off.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But Ashley wasn't scared. And when she hooked one, she would jump up and down in excitement. Glenn admitted she wasn't afraid of nothing. She was a good girl.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
now before we get into the events of december 29th it's important to talk about ashley freeman's family history in the years before 1999 they had gone through a lot ashley's father danny had had a work-related injury which made it difficult for him to hold down a job so the family had to rely on kathy's salary she worked at doctor's optical supply company but sadly
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
It didn't pay very well, so they were always struggling financially. To make some money on the side, Danny started growing high-grade marijuana on the back end of his 40-acre property. Now, at first, he started growing it for personal use, but eventually word got around and he decided to make a little business out of it.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
Following this, Danny Freeman was charged with injuring a minor, which is a felony, but he continued to maintain his innocence. He argued that he had simply punished his child as he saw fit and that the entire ordeal had been blown out of proportion. Apparently, Shane had misbehaved and Danny had taken away his telephone privileges.
Murder In America
EP. 196: OKLAHOMA - The Murders Of Lauria Bible & Ashley Freeman: A Disturbing Mystery In The Heartland
But after taking his phone away, Shane had rewired the phone so that he could still use it in his bedroom. And when Danny found this out, he used that very cord to beat his son. Danny stood by his actions that day. He agreed that he did give his son a good beating, but in his mind, it was necessary. However, the Oklahoma Department of Human Services didn't agree.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
In an interview with the New York Post, Collier stated, My mother always took me shopping. I think that was her hobby. She knew I was bored, so she'd make the day end up as a life lesson or an educational experience. She'd take me to an art museum or a science museum. We'd talk to each other through a giant echo tube at the Center of Science and Industry in Columbus.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Jack reportedly had dozens of girlfriends over his 20-year marriage to Noreen, and she was very aware of them. According to her friends, she had tried to leave Jack over his infidelity, but in response, he threatened to stop supporting her in Collier, which is a scary position to be in. Even further, Jack had a lot of excuses for his affairs.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
He even told Noreen that he couldn't help sleeping around and that it was an addiction. So, over time, Noreen had grown numb to her husband's infidelity. But she did have one rule. She knew that Jack was going to cheat on her whether she liked it or not. So the one thing she asked of him was to leave Collier out of it. She didn't want their son subjected to Jack's infidelity.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
But soon enough, Jack would even break that promise.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
In February of 1989, Noreen packed up her things and left for Taiwan to adopt a little girl named Elizabeth. And two weeks later, she brought her home to Mansfield, Ohio. Now, I believe at the time of her adoption, Elizabeth was just two years old, and perhaps Noreen thought that bringing another child into the picture would help their family come together.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
It surely would help heal Noreen's heart. After all, her children were her whole world. But during this time, Jack's attention was on someone else. A new woman had entered his life. It was 28-year-old Sherry Campbell, and her entrance into Jack's life would change everything for the Boyle family. Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you.
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EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
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EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
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EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
But let's get back to the story.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Think about the betrayal Noreen felt. For years, she had put up with her husband's abuse and infidelity, but she always had one rule. Don't involve Collier, something she had specifically told him not to do under any circumstances. She could handle the heartbreak of infidelity, but there was absolutely no reason her son had to be exposed to it. This time, it didn't matter about the money.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Noreen Marie Schmidt was born on September 28, 1945, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Her father, Norbert Schmidt, served in the Marine Corps, but after becoming disabled, he found work at a Philadelphia Naval shipyard as a night warehouseman. Noreen's mother, Marie, worked at a small-town loan and savings company. So, Noreen came from humble beginnings.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Noreen wanted out of her marriage for good. Now, she wouldn't officially file for divorce until November of 1989. And by that time, Noreen was making plans for her new life without her husband. But Collier said that the energy inside of their home around this time was unsettling. There was clear tension between Jack and Noreen.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
So anytime his father came home from work, they tried to avoid him as much as they could.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Occasionally, Jack would have to take Collier to run some errands. But every time he did, it was a nightmare. As they would drive in the car together, Jack would tell his son that once the divorce was finalized, Collier and his mother would have nothing.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Soon enough, Christmas of 1989 had arrived. and Noreen tried her best to make it special for Collier and Elizabeth. One thing that stuck out to Collier that Christmas is that his mother had given him a Nintendo Entertainment System, which is what all the kids wanted at that age. But as happy as Christmas should be as a child, this holiday was anything but joyful.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
This impending divorce was about to change their family for good, and Noreen knew that. In addition, Jack had been very angry at the time, even more so than usual. In his podcast, The Collier-Landry Show, Collier recalled playing Double Dragon 2 on his new Nintendo in front of his father. It's a classic game where players defeat enemy after enemy to proceed to the next level.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
But after watching Collier play that game, Jack snapped at him.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Her parents didn't have a lot, but they made it work. Noreen's sister Carol said in an interview with The Plain Dealer that their family would even take in boarders to make ends meet.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now, Collier was a very smart kid. Back around Thanksgiving, when his mom told him that if anything happened to her, it was his father, Collier went home and wrote down the phone numbers of Noreen's friends, just in case he would ever need it. After that, he even hid the phone numbers in one of his stuffed animals so his dad wouldn't find it.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
And after hearing the story that his mom randomly left for a vacation in the middle of the night, Collier knew it was time to get help. So when his dad and grandma weren't looking, he grabbed their cordless phone and snuck over to the bathroom. Painstakingly and trying not to get caught, he told each friend that answered that he didn't know where his mom was or what had happened to her.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
From there, one of his mother's friends called the police. Soon after, two uniformed officers arrive at their home. After getting the phone call from one of Noreen's friends, They came to the house to check things out. But sure enough, when they questioned Jack about his wife's whereabouts, he remained calm and collected.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
He told the officers that he had fallen asleep on the couch downstairs the night before, and he woke up to his wife yelling at him. He said that Noreen was throwing things at him, completely irate. From there, she stormed out of the house and got into a car that he didn't recognize. And to Collier's shock, the police believed Jack's story.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Given the rocky relationship that Jack disclosed to them, it wasn't unusual for one spouse to storm off and then return after they cooled off. In addition, it certainly helped that Jack was a doctor and that he maintained a relaxed, calm composure. He certainly didn't scream nervous guilty husband.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Once the temperature started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything. So we both decided to switch things up and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Everything with Quince is priced 50-80% less than what you'd find at similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. So treat your closet to a little summer glow up with Quince.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Go to quince.com slash America for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash America to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash America. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
So every single day, 11-year-old Collier is going home and making mental notes of everything his dad is doing and saying. Then the next day at school, he's calling David Messmore to report it. But it wouldn't be until several weeks into his mother's disappearance when he found a piece of evidence that would change everything.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
And when Dave hears this information, he's terrified as well. He knew that Jack Boyle was capable of horrific things, and he wanted to make sure that no one else would be hurt as his hands. So over the course of the next few days, Dave Messmore worked hard to get Collier out of that home. On January 24th, 1990, Collier woke up at around 6am to strangers standing over his bed.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
They told him that they were with Child Protective Services and that he had to quickly grab his things and come with them. Collier and his sister Elizabeth were being saved just in the nick of time thanks to his own advocacy for himself and Messmore's belief in him. But that doesn't make this removal from his home any less tragic.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Collier stood in his bedroom, with no guidance whatsoever, looking over his precious collection of toys and every prized possession in his life. What would he need where he was going? His Nintendo? His favorite stuffed animal? His schoolbooks and bags? Over the next few minutes, Collier gathered up all the relics of his life and bid the home he had grown up in farewell.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
He hugged his beloved dog and asked when he would see him again. CPS promised that he would be reunited with Gowdy, but that never happened. That was the very last time he ever saw his childhood dog. After packing up his things, Collier goes downstairs, where chaos is quickly unfolding.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
According to the Boyle family, Jack's father, John F. Boyle Sr., was a newspaper reporter. His mother, Christine Boyle, worked as a sales clerk at a local department store, so he too came from a working middle-class family. But Jack was ashamed of his upbringing. He didn't like that he came from humble beginnings. So, throughout his life, he worked hard to really make something of himself.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
you see the one thing about both jack and noreen was that they were both highly intelligent after high school they both attended the university of pennsylvania which is an ivy league school noreen would end up graduating from upenn and from there she became a successful dental hygienist
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories, and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events, pedophile rings, government corruption, ritual sacrifice. No topic is untouched on this show. Everything that we talk about on The Conspiracy Files is backed up with fact. I release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real. It's a completely different type of show than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files. The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now let's get back to our story.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Despite his life being completely turned upside down, Collier continued going to school that week. A normal routine was good for him in such an uncertain time. But he said that he'll never forget walking through the doors right after his mom's body had been discovered and his father had been arrested.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
at the time his school was celebrating the chinese new year something his mother had helped organize but as he walked through the doors that day every single person turned to look at him after all the story of his parents was all anyone in town had been talking about for the last few weeks and it had finally all come to a head everybody's like i walk in and everybody's just the tears just streaming down their faces because everybody loved my mother
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now, despite finding his wife's body buried under the basement floor of his house, Jack Boyle surprisingly maintained his innocence. His defense attorneys would later say he was one of the most difficult clients they ever had. They tried to urge him to take a plea deal, but he refused. He wanted a trial.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
So over the course of the next few months, the prosecution worked hard to gather as much evidence as they could for the biggest trial their town had ever seen. And they uncovered a lot. In June of 1990, the trial of Jack Boyle Jr. commenced, and everyone in Mansfield, Ohio was tuning in to hear the details of how their town's beloved doctor had murdered his wife. The courtroom was packed.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Soon enough, Jack and his defense team walked in and took their seats, and over the course of the next few days, the prosecution helped paint a picture of how this seemingly perfect family began to unravel. So, let's go over what they found.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Sadly, Jack Boyle was never held accountable for molesting his two nieces. And afterward, he continued working as a respected family doctor in Mansfield, which is a scary thought. And strangely enough, soon after that, he was also investigated for another crime that happened in Florida. This incident occurred on December 31st, 1988. two years to the day before Noreen was murdered.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
This time, however, it didn't involve molestation. It involved allegedly breaking into a home, vandalizing it, and threatening a former girlfriend of his. A woman living in Florida claimed that for five whole years from 1983 to 1988, She had been romantically and sexually involved with Jack.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
During that time, she had been working as a nurse at a hospital in Mansfield, but in the fall of 1988, she moved to Florida and ended her relationship with him, and he wasn't happy about it. This woman would later tell a police officer that after she moved, Jack had relentlessly harassed her through phone calls and letters.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
then on new year's she returned to her home to find it completely ransacked her clothes had been pulled out of drawers her home had been ruthlessly vandalized and stuck to the door was a note she had written to her current boyfriend and the letter was pinned to her bedroom door with a sharp dagger
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now, this woman had always known that Jack was the one who did this, but there wasn't enough evidence to actually file any charges against him. So, once again, Jack Boyle was allowed to act however he wanted to and still never faced any consequences.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now, in that clip, you can hear the crowd and jury laugh at Collier's statement. Granted, hearing something so unfiltered and clear coming out of a 12-year-old boy's mouth does have a shock factor. However, his reaction to this laughter is a sigh. He doesn't smile, he doesn't laugh along, he sighs. After all, he's telling a room full of adults the sad truth. His dad hardly spent any time with him.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now, just five days after Jack and Sherry signed the paperwork to move into their new home, Noreen filed for divorce. After years of contemplating it, the time had finally come, and Noreen had no shame. Reportedly, when she told a neighbor about the divorce, she nonchalantly added, It's fine, he's got more girlfriends than he has ties."
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
It seemed as if Noreen had finally had enough, but she truly had no idea what was to come. On November 27th, Jack sent a letter out to all of his patients telling them that he was closing his local office to relocate to Erie, Pennsylvania. Slowly but surely, everything was falling into place for him. He had his new home, a new office in Erie, a baby on the way, and a whole new family.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
All he needed to do now was get Noreen out of the picture.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Jack would later claim that he rented the jackhammer to break up the ice on the brick around his new home so that his wife and children wouldn't slip. But if you've ever lived in a cold climate, which I have, I'm from South Dakota originally, you know just how ridiculous that statement is, considering that a $5 bag of salt works much better. So what was Jack doing with that rented jackhammer?
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Well, according to Michelle Barth, the realtor who sold Jack and Sherry their home, Jack called her that day to ask what kind of soil was in the basement of their house. Michelle told him what it was, but she wanted to know why. Jack stated that it was just in case he wanted to lower the floor someday. Now, Michelle was very thrown off by this.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
The basement already had really high ceilings, and it was a fairly new construction, so it had proper flooring and plenty of usable space for a growing family. But in reality, Jack didn't want to lower the floors of his basement for more space. He lowered it because he was just days away from killing his wife, and he needed somewhere to store her body. Which brings us to New Year's Eve, 1989.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
The prosecution had proof that Jack had rented a jackhammer before the murder. And Sherry's brother was actually the one who returned it for him just two days after the killing. In Jack's mind, he was getting away with it. But soon enough, Collier would find that picture inside his dad's car. The one that showed Sherry Campbell and her children inside the new house.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
And from there, it was only a matter of time until investigators would execute a search warrant on the property in Erie, Pennsylvania. Now, when that day finally came, a team of crime scene investigators began combing through the house with a fine-tooth comb.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
And downstairs in the basement, as they were looking at the newly built bookshelves, they noticed a small splatter of freshly dried concrete down in the basement. And that's what alerted them to search down below. Just two feet down, they discovered Noreen's body wrapped in a tarp that Collier identified at trial as belonging to his father. Richland County Prosecutor James Mayer Jr.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
would later tell the news journal, Dr. Boyle was a control freak. He wanted the body right underneath his feet. That was the type of guy he was. He was diabolical. Along with Noreen's body, investigators also found a shovel covered in dirt and concrete remnants in the basement with Jack's fingerprints on it.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now, one would think after finding his wife's body buried in the floor of his home that Jack would admit to murdering her. But clearly, since he had a trial, that just wasn't the case. So what was Jack's defense? Well, they claimed that the prosecution had no real proof that Jack killed Noreen. They even went as far as to say that the body buried in the floor wasn't even Noreen Boyle.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now, keep in mind that this was before DNA testing, but during the initial autopsy, the body's weight was marked as being around 150 pounds, and the eyes were marked down as brown.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
jack's defense team clung to these two discrepancies noreen was known to weigh about 120 to 130 pounds in addition her eyes were blue so they argued that the body couldn't possibly have been noreen's however noreen's body was shoved beneath a basement floor taking on water it's highly likely that the increase in weight was water weight from being stored in a natural drainage area
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
There's also a phenomenon called tosh noir that occurs after death. This happens when an exposed part of the cornea in the eye dries out, leaving a brown, black, or orange discoloration. This is widely known and could easily explain the change in eye color between Noreen and the corpse.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
In addition, the first assistant prosecutor, Jerry Alt, stated at trial, quote, "...having not even known her and having only seen a picture of her, when the body was exhumed, in my mind I knew that the woman was Noreen Boyle." "'Of that, I and the prosecutor's office have no doubt. "'It was very obviously Mrs. Boyle.'"
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
And luckily, he didn't get away with it. After his trial, Jack Boyle was sent to prison to serve out his life sentence. But this story was far from over. After losing his mother and now his father, Collier had nowhere to go. He was hoping that his extended family would take him in. But sadly, they refused.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Jack Boyle was known to be a great doctor in Mansfield. He took great care of all of his patients. He was good at what he did. But his coworkers had a different perception of him. According to Jack's son Collier, his dad had only worked at this hospital in Mansfield for about two years before he was kicked out. Now, some of the things his coworkers noticed about him was that he was a womanizer.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Now over the years, Collier kept in contact with his father by writing him letters. But sadly, even after his conviction, Jack continued to maintain his innocence. It was frustrating. In an ideal world, Collier wanted to hear his dad admit to what he did, so he could move on and get the closure he deserved. But Jack Boyle is a stubborn man.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
When asked why Collier continued that relationship with his dad, he told us that at the end of the day he loved his father, despite everything he had put him through.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Everyone knew that Jack was married.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
but that didn't stop him from pursuing other women and the main reason jack was fired from this hospital was because he had nearly 200 sexual harassment complaints against him so from there jack just decided to open his own private practice a place where he was the boss and he didn't have to answer to anyone and it's here where his career and success skyrocketed in fact at the time
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
now eventually years into his sentence jack boyle's parole would come up and a huge part of getting parole is that the parole board wants to see that you've taken responsibility for your crimes now jack is a smart man and he wants his freedom so after decades of denying any responsibility in noreen's murder
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
He finally admitted that he was the one who took Noreen's life that night back on New Year's of 1990. But of course, Jack's new story is full of lies. This time, he said that on the night in question, Noreen came downstairs screaming and throwing things at him. He even said that she came after him, so he pushed her. But when he did, she fell and hit her head on the coffee table.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Jack said that from there, he blacked out, and when he came back to focus, Noreen was dead with a bag over her head. Now, clearly this story is very unbelievable and the parole board must have agreed because they immediately denied his parole.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
One in 13 residents in Mansfield were reportedly patients of Dr. Boyle. People described him as empathetic, compassionate, and professional.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
In honor of Noreen Boyle, we will be making a donation to the Ohio Domestic Violence Network, or ODVN. Near the end of her life, Noreen's friends described her as trapped, isolated, and terrified, and there are many people out there who are in similar situations. So if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, help and support is available.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
We'll be posting the full interview we did with Collier on our Patreon, so if you want to go watch that, make sure you're a member. But also, we would love if everyone could please go support Collier Landry by following him on social media and by watching his documentary, A Murder in Mansfield.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Last year was such an incredible year for the show. Courtney and I were on Times Square. The family online grew so much bigger. Our listener base increased so much. So we have so many amazing people out there that have joined the Murder in America family. And we just couldn't be more thankful. We all hope you had a blessed holiday season.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Spent a lot of time with family, ate some cookies, gave and got some presents, did whatever. I also want to thank Collier for speaking with us this episode. Collier is an amazing guy and you definitely should go support him on social media because he's doing some great work on his own nowadays.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
If you like Murder in America and you want more Murder in America, please consider signing up to be a member on our Patreon. On Patreon, you can get access to bonus episodes of the show that will never be posted on our main feed. early and ad-free access to all of our episodes and so much more.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Seriously, if you love the show and you want more episodes and you've never joined us on Patreon, if you subscribe to one of the tiers where you're getting these bonus episodes, you'll get access to a library of episodes. I think there's like 120 episodes, probably more than that on there. full length episodes of the show that you guys will love.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Anyways, we have some incredible episodes coming up this year, some really big projects and so much in the works for 2025. Thank you all for joining us on this crazy ride we call life. I hope you all have a great weekend and I'll catch you on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
Jack told many lies to the people around them. He said his mother was a Vogue model and his father was an industrialist who had come from a long line of fortune. He lied about Noreen's upbringing too, telling people that she grew up in a mansion in Philadelphia. He made it seem like he and Noreen came from these wealthy families. When in reality, that just wasn't the case.
Murder In America
EP. 183: OHIO - The 11-Year-Old Who Helped Solve His Mom's Murder
And I'm Colin Browen.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences. We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Meanwhile, Naomi's mother frantically searched for information on her daughter's whereabouts. It wouldn't be until February of 1993, when the dental records were entered into the National Crime Information Center database, that investigators were able to identify the remains. They belonged to Naomi Lee Kidder. Now, sadly, Naomi's murder is still unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But like we mentioned, her name was found written in Larry Hall's notebook in 1994, just one year after her body had been identified. He never confessed to her murder, but some people out there believe that he is responsible and that Naomi was his first victim.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
If Larry was responsible for the deaths of Naomi Kidder and Lolly Chavez, then that means he spent a lot of time prowling. Like we mentioned, he would usually travel around for these car shows, so he had all of these towns to drive through. New areas, new women to stalk, and most importantly, because he was from out of town, no one would ever suspect him.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But at this time in Larry's life, he was very unhappy. He was still living with his parents in their one-bedroom home, having to sleep in their living room. And he was still close to his brother Gary, but he had moved out and had his own life. So anytime Larry had the opportunity to get away for a weekend, he would take it. And it's around this time when he discovered Civil War reenactments.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He first learned about them after hearing about them on a television program. At these reenactments, men would travel to the battlefields and reenact famous battles from the Civil War. Now, like we mentioned before, throughout his entire life, Larry had always loved history, so he decided to go to one himself.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In December of 1986, Larry made the three-hour drive to Champaign, Illinois, where they were doing one of these reenactments, which also happened to be the exact same time and place where 25-year-old Kimberly Ann Thompson went missing. It was December 1st of that year, and Kimberly's father had just dropped her off near her boyfriend's house.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
However, it seemed as though Kimberly never made it inside, because right after her father drove away that day, no one would ever see or hear from her again. Now, interestingly, a few months before her disappearance, she had actually testified against two men in a drug trafficking case, and her testimony landed the men in prison for seven years.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So there were people out there who weren't too happy with her. The police even offered her protection and money for her to relocate, but she refused, stating she wasn't ready to leave the area.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Kimberly had also come into some money, roughly $25,000 to $35,000 after she filed a workplace injury lawsuit, but unfortunately, she never arrived to collect the cash, leading everybody to believe she was dead. Now, like we mentioned, her name is often associated with Larry Hall because he was in the area at the time of her disappearance.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
but he's never officially been linked to her case, and sadly, her body has never been found, so her case is still unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Hey everybody, Courtney and I have a favor to ask of you. If you love Murder in America, you love our show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to your podcasts, whether that's Apple Podcasts, Spotify. If you love our show and you want to help us grow, definitely consider leaving us a five-star review. Also, it helps the show so much when people share out links to our program.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So if you're listening and you're loving what we're doing here, share us on your Instagram story, shout us out on X, Post one of our shows on your Facebook and let the world, your friends, your family know that you're listening to Murder in America. It seriously helps us so much. It helps us grow the show. We couldn't do this without all of you listening at home. Seriously, thank y'all.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But let's get back to the story. Now, at this point, Larry loved these Civil War reenactments so much, he decided that he wanted to become a part of them. So, in 1988, he decided to join a group of men who portrayed the 19th Indiana Volunteer Infantry Regiment, also known as the Union's Iron Brigade. For Larry, he couldn't think of anything more perfect for him.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Not only would he get to do something he loved, but he would also get to escape his home life while he was on the road. So, for months, he and his group traveled around the Midwest and participated in reenactments. And his brother Gary actually joined him. The twins had always had very similar interests while growing up, and history was one of them.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
it was something they did together and they loved it on the weekends larry gary and the rest of the iron brigade would camp out near the battlegrounds and when the crowds would show up to watch they would run out into the fields wearing full civil war attire including hardy hats wool coats and dark blue pants and over the weekend they would shoot their muskets and rifles march alongside each other and pretend to kill confederate soldiers it was the perfect hobby for larry hall
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
He got to spend time with his brother, doing what he loved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry Hall's next suspected murder took place on September 2, 1988. 19-year-old Paulette Webster had disappeared near Chester, Illinois. She had just left her friend's house after an evening of bowling and was never seen again. At first, investigators believed that Paulette left the area on her own accord. However, she took no personal belongings with her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Her clothes, purse, and driver's license were all found in her bedroom. And sadly, Paulette was never seen again. Now, Larry Hall would later say that he couldn't remember if he was responsible for her murder, but said, quote, If I did it, I would have put her in a river or in a field, end quote.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On September 20th, 1988, 16 year old Cynthia Louise Carmack disappeared near the Fort Hamilton Historic Site in Hamilton, Ohio. The brown-haired, blue-eyed teenager was last seen leaving a shopping center in the 1000 block of Parcomo Avenue. Unfortunately, she was never seen again, and her case remains unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On December 16, 1988, an unidentified white female, only known as Jane Doe, was discovered on the east side of the northbound lane of Interstate 59, only five miles from the Georgia-Alabama state line. Investigators theorized that the female was 20 to 25 years old. She had brown hair and blue eyes. She had been sexually mutilated and strangled to death.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
The body was discovered close to Civil War battle sites, including Dalton, Chickamauga, and Adairsville. Today, her remains have never been identified, and the case still remains unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On June 26th, 1989, 26-year-old Lynn Ann Thompson's abandoned car was found in a Kmart parking lot in Terre Haute, Indiana. She was never seen or heard from again, and her case remains unsolved. The area of her disappearance was south of two reenactment sites that Larry frequented. Billy Creek Village, and Turkey Run State Park.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On October 1, 1989, 28-year-old Janet Rose Dolge disappeared from her residence at the 500 block of Portage-Easterly Road in Cortland, Ohio. She was on her way to work at a local restaurant where she was a hostess, dressed in her work shirt and dress pants. Unfortunately, Janet was never seen again, and her case remains unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On July 20, 1990, an unidentified white female was found in a bean field in Jarvis Township, Illinois. The woman was around 25 years old and had shoulder-length auburn hair. She had several stab wounds to her neck and torso, and she had been sexually mutilated. The killer had removed her reproductive organs. Unfortunately, the woman has never been identified and is known only today as Jane Doe.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Her case remains unsolved. Investigators later looked into Larry Hall as being their killer, but without sufficient evidence, they couldn't prove it. Once the temperatures started rising this spring, Courtney and I both realized that we were back in the same worn-out rotation. We were wearing the same tanks, the same shorts, the same pants, the same everything.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So, we both decided to switch things up, and we gave our daily uniforms an upgrade with quints. Their pieces are easy, elevated, and somehow make us feel more put together without even trying. Honestly, we've talked about this company before, but Quince makes incredibly comfortable, very well-fitted clothing that Courtney and I have come to love.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Even with the simple things like t-shirts, I love wearing my t-shirts that I've gotten from Quince every day, whether I'm sitting at home editing videos and podcasts, or Courtney and I are running around town getting some things done. Through Quince, you can get 100% European linen shorts and dresses from $30, luxe swimwear, Italian leather platform sandals, and so much more. But the best part?
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
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Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
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Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Nestled in the United States' Midwest is a town called Wabash, Indiana. a small town with a small town feel and it has a lot of history in fact wabash prides itself on being the first electrically lighted city in the world on march 31st 1880 four 3 000 candle power brush lamps were suspended from the courthouse and the spectacle drew over 10 000 people to witness it
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
A few weeks after Michelle's murder, on July 25th, 1991, 37-year-old Georgia Ann Shreve disappeared after last being seen at a truck stop in Clermont, on the west side of Indianapolis. On August 5th, her body was discovered in a ditch next to the westbound ramp of Interstate 74 at Indiana State Route 25.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In Larry's 1994 confession, he admitted that he had picked up a woman in Clermont, something he vividly remembered because the woman didn't want to go with him. He forced the woman into the car, although he could not remember her name. And as of today, the case remains unsolved. In March of 1992, the body of a Jane Doe was located in Fulton County, Georgia.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Then a few months later on June 3rd, 1992, another Jane Doe was discovered in Berks County, Pennsylvania. Larry Hall is suspected in both Jane Doe murders. But 1992 was another busy year for Larry and his Civil War reenactments. By that point, he was so invested in the role, he had even grown his sideburns out so that he would look more like the soldiers at the time.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
That summer, he and his brother had been cast as extras in another Civil War movie called Gettysburg. Now, Larry was never seen in the film, but interestingly, his brother was. If you were to watch the movie, you'd actually see Gary Hall as he ran down a hill in one of the scenes. He'd later tell the Chronicle Tribune for Marion, Indiana, quote, "...it was actually my first reenactment combat.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, people have since debated whether or not this claim is accurate since, technically, only the courthouse was lit, not the whole town. However, to this day, the people of the city stand proudly by this accomplishment. But if you were to walk down the streets of the historic downtown today, you'd see a line of old brick and limestone buildings that are home to over 100 small businesses.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
I learned a lot, but it was also dangerous. They had a stuntman in front of me during one scene. He was blown six feet into the air by an explosion. It was planned, but even that seemed dangerous."
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After her disappearance, investigators theorized that perhaps Lori had run off with someone she knew, but her loved ones couldn't stop thinking about that cup of soda in her car and the fact that she left her overnight bag inside her vehicle. Lori didn't run away. Someone had heard her. But for months, Lori remained missing.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
There are restaurants, boutiques, and every week they have a farmers market. The population of Wabash is around 11,000, and many of the people who were born and raised here grew up to be good, upstanding citizens. After all, people from the Midwest have a reputation of being overly friendly and nice. But on December 11, 1962, a little boy would be born.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Following her disappearance, hundreds of volunteers searched alongside investigators. Thousands of missing persons flyers were distributed throughout surrounding areas. Civil Air Patrol helicopters looked for clues by air, but there was absolutely nothing to be found. Unfortunately, Lori was never seen again, and her case remains unsolved to this day.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In Larry's 1994 confession, he admitted he had traveled to Wisconsin several days before Lori's disappearance for a Civil War reenactment at Gringan Mansion in Kaukauna. Shockingly, her name was also mentioned in his diary that was discovered in his van after he was arrested. Larry ultimately confessed to her murder in November of 2010, but to this day, she's never been found.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Seen many nice girls at Marsh's. Lots of walkers at 715. Walking to apartments on Nebraska in 4443. Must be housing for the university. Seen some prospects. Look at maps. Get the van ready.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Tricia was a freshman at Indiana Wesleyan University studying psychology, and everyone who knew her described her as extremely smart, energetic, athletic, and determined. She had grown up in Olmstead Falls, Ohio, in a happy home. Her father, Gary, owned a woodworking business, and her mother, Donna, cleaned homes.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
The Reitlers were devoted to their faith and attended Golden Harvest Church in Columbia Station, Ohio. Growing up, Trisha was active in the youth group and sang in the church choir. She was extremely close with her parents and three younger siblings. When looking for colleges, Trisha wanted a religious-affiliated school and agreed upon Indiana Wesleyan when her application was accepted.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
His name was Larry DeWayne Hall, and he would grow up to embody the very antithesis of Midwestern values.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
By all accounts, Trisha excelled in college. She maintained good grades, earning her a spot on the Dean's List, and worked part-time at the University Food Center on campus. She knew she wanted to focus her attention on helping people and decided to major in psychology. She was petite, vibrant, and loved poetry, journaling, and helping others.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Replace rear carpet and van. Cut out stained carpet. Vacuum van thoroughly. Spray down chemicals. Wipe with Armor All. Burn paint and tarps. Buy new hacksaw blades. Clean all tools with denatured alcohol. Take tires off and clean mud from under fenders.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
When the twins were born, it wasn't the happiest time for their family. Larry and Gary's mom, Bernice, had had a difficult pregnancy and their father, Robert, was not financially ready to feed two extra mouths. Now at the time, Robert Hall was working as a gravedigger at Falls Cemetery in Wabash, and the work wasn't easy. He would dig the graves by hand, using picks and shovels.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Campus security guard Dale Beck received the phone call, and as he heard the description, the Dodge van actually drove right past him. Now, Dale was a veteran officer with the Grant County Sheriff's Department, and he decided to pull the van over himself. The driver handed his license over, and Dale saw the name, Larry Hall.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, when asked if Larry was following these girls, he made up an elaborate story about trying to locate a friend's house. He even gave Dale the address of the home. And to Dale, his story sounded truthful. This wasn't a guy trying to abduct these women. He simply needed directions. So, from here, Larry was allowed to leave. Which is unfortunate.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Because little did they know, their killer had been right in front of them. And Larry Hall would go on to kill again months later.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
It was reported that it would take him 18 hours to dig one single grave, but Robert was good at what he did. He was a hard worker and did his best to maintain the cemetery. The only problem was it didn't pay very well. So when Robert, who was already in his 40s, found out that his wife, Bernice, was pregnant with twins, he wasn't very excited about the extra expenses that were to come.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And believe it or not, investigators even suggested that maybe Jessica ran away, which is wild considering that her bike was found in the middle of the road. But luckily, they soon dropped that theory. Because as it turned out, Jessica wasn't the only young girl who had gone missing around that time. In fact, many young girls in Illinois and Indiana had been vanishing.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So that night, investigators and volunteers began their searches. They combed the cornfields, abandoned buildings, barns, ponds, marshes, rivers, lakes, and wooded areas. But there was no sign of Jessica, and her family was worried sick.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On November 18th, her body was laid to rest at Georgetown Cemetery, and as the 100-car procession made their way to say their final goodbyes, investigators watched intently. Although Jessica had been found, her killer had not. Whoever was responsible was still on the streets, but soon enough, someone would give the police their first lead.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
According to a man named Monty Cox, he had been driving through Perrysville, Indiana on the night that Jessica Roach disappeared. He had just left his shift. It was around 1130 p.m. and on his way home, he spotted something unusual. It was a man walking out of the cornfields, the very cornfields where Jessica's body had been found. Now, at the time, he thought it was strange.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
but he just figured that the man had pulled over to use the restroom. However, now, knowing that a young girl's body had been dumped there, he decided to inform the police. And luckily, he even had a description of the man. He said he had dark hair and an odd beard, much like that of Larry Hall. Even further, the man was seen walking towards a dark van.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, this definitely was a good lead, but without a name, they still had a lot of work to do. Finding a dark-haired man with an odd beard would be like finding a needle in a haystack. and little did they know, their suspect would soon be back in Indiana. On November 19th, Larry found himself in the city of Rochester for a Civil War reenactment.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Tourists from all over came to watch him, and no one suspected a thing.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
If you love Murder in America, you love mysteries, you love true crime, you love murder stories and the unknown, then I have a new show for you. It's called The Conspiracy Files, and it's hosted by me, Colin Brown, from Murder in America and The Paranormal Files. On The Conspiracy Files, we explore everything from bizarre deaths to freak paranormal events,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
pedophile rings government corruption rituals sacrifice no topic is untouched on this show everything that we talk about on the conspiracy files is backed up with fact i release reference sheets with every single episode that we do so you guys know everything we're talking about is confirmed to have happened and be real it's a completely different type of show
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
than anything else you've ever seen about conspiracy theories. Instead of a bunch of conjecture and theories, we're presenting you people with facts, telling you the story, walking you through the story just as detailed as we do with Murder in America, and then letting the listener decide what they think. Anyways, you should definitely give it a listen. It's called The Conspiracy Files.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
The links are in the description of this show, and you can find it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now, let's get back to our story. Now, that very same day after Larry failed to abduct Amy, he drove back to Georgetown, Illinois, the same town where he had abducted Jessica Roach. He had luck finding a girl there, so why not try again?
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And this time, he spotted two young girls riding their bikes. It was 13-year-old Abby Mariage and 15-year-old Kaylin Hoskins. Now, the girls were riding near their junior high when they suddenly noticed a dark van following close behind. And just like he did with Amy, he drove past them several times. The girls watched in horror as Larry parked up ahead of them and just sat staring, watching them.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Fearing that something wasn't right, the girls decided to go back to Kaylin's house and quickly cut through a back alley down Dyke Street. When they arrived, they told Kaylin's grandmother what had happened and she called the police. And luckily, the girls were able to provide a description. Black bushy hair and a thick beard. Abby also called her parents and they arrived to pick her up.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But Abby's father, Randy, wanted to find this man. So, with Abby in the car, he started driving around. And soon enough, they saw it. It was at a gas station. But it seems as though Larry knew someone was on his trail, because it's here where he quickly sped out of the parking lot.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
With Randy hot in pursuit, Larry Hall began speeding down the road, zigzagging through traffic at nearly 80 miles per hour. He was clearly trying to get away, but Randy kept up. At a traffic light, Randy pulled up behind the van and jotted down the license plate, 85B3752. And with that, they immediately went to the police.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
One of the boys' best friends, Ross Davis, would tell author James Keen in his novel, In with the Devil, quote, "...the house was a big place, but it was a dump. It was like a path to walk through. Stuff was piled everywhere. Mrs. Hall was always having a rummage sale, and we used to joke that they lived inside a rummage sale. All the years I knew the family, I never once saw her do any cleaning.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
very day after he was released on may 31st 1994 larry decided to return to his hometown of wabash indiana but as he was driving through it he would come across a group of young girls in the group were ashley davis tisha moore melissa selick and danielle marshall the girls had been taking a stroll through wabash city park when they noticed an odd brown van following them
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry quickly pulled up beside them and asked if they needed a ride. But these girls must have known that he was dangerous, because they all started running as fast as they possibly could. Luckily, Ashley's house was nearby. Author Christopher Holly Martin interviewed Tisha in 2009, and she told him the following.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
After seeing the creepy van, Ashley's mother called the police and the girls were able to provide a description of himself and the vehicle. But Melissa's father, John Selick, decided to hunt for the van himself. As it turned out, his daughter had actually crossed paths with Larry Hall before. He had tried to pick Melissa up in that same creepy van in the past.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
So, John started driving around and eventually he found him. But instead of confronting Larry, he simply wrote down the license plate number 85B3752. If this man was going to follow little girls around, then John was going to make sure that the police knew about it. So, later that afternoon, the Wabash Police Department showed up at Larry's door. And once again, he was taken in for questioning.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
They would eat out every day because she was too lazy to cook. That's why they never saved a penny." She was just a big fat lady who sat around the house all day and did nothing but yell and stir up a lot of trouble."
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On October 9th, 1994, 20-year-old Carrie Ann Smith's body was found floating down the Tippecanoe River in Rochester, Indiana. Carrie lived at 3325 South Main Street in South Bend and was last seen at that location. Carrie was a known sex worker. An autopsy determined that she had been raped, tortured, sexually mutilated, and then strangled. Investigators had no idea where she had been murdered.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
There was no evidence on the bridge or on the riverbanks. After Larry Hall's arrest, police discovered a note in his van with the word, Menominee. Apparently, the Menominee public access was only one mile upstream from where Carrie's body was discovered. Today, investigators believe that Larry paid Carrie for sex to get her into his van.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
I recall I was in Illinois for a Revolutionary War reenactment. This was in the fall of 1993. I was in Forest Glen Park, County Park. I stayed that night. I usually sleep in my van. The next day I headed back home to Wabash, Indiana. I was on the road. There was a girl walking a bike. I stopped and talked to her. I had to grab her because she wouldn't have gotten in by herself.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
I usually keep starting fluid in rags. I might have used these on her, but I don't think I used this on her. I tied her up, but I can't remember with what. I remember taking her pants off. I took my pants off and had sex with her. I can't remember what kind. I laid her up against a tree and put a belt around her neck and she stopped breathing. I was close to a bridge and a river.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
This is where I had her. There was a road through a cornfield. She was wrapped in tarp while in the van. I took the tarp off and left her in the cornfield. I just do things that I'm not in control. I was shown a picture of Jessica Roach and this picture looks a little like the girl I remember. I have nightmares where I remember these murders.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
I write things about the girls and I don't remember when I wrote them. I would find these in the van.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In late March 93, I was in Marion, Indiana several times. I don't remember where in Marion. It was near some homes and gas station. There was a small shopping center. I had a van. There was possibly a struggle with her to get in the van. I do remember she tried to run away. I ran towards her, ran into her, and we fell to the ground. I told her I was not going to hurt her and to calm down.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
She would not calm down and tried to get away. I had a knife to scare her. I made her sit on the ground and take her clothes off. It was dark. There was a dark colored dog there. When taking her clothes off, she tried to run again. I shoved her down and told her I didn't want to hurt her. She took everything but underclothes off. I remember putting her on a tarp or canvas. I think she was alive.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
She just laid there. I didn't have sex with her there. I put her in the van and put a bag of trash on her. I drove a couple of hours. I first drove southwest and then just kept driving and turning. I got lost. I don't remember taking her out of the van, but I recall being on a canvas in the woods having sex. I set her up against a tree and put a belt around her neck. I left her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Possibly left her near a creek and a concrete bridge. I was shown a picture of Trisha Reitler and I thought the Xerox photo on the flyer looked like her.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
All the girls looked alike. I can't remember all of them. I went to Anderson, Indiana, and exactly the same thing happened. This was in 1992. I got a girl in Anderson. I can't remember details now. I picked up several girls in other areas, but I can't remember which ones I hurt. I went to a car show in Indianapolis, July or probably August 1994. I picked up a girl.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
I can't remember the recent girls I picked up. This girl was in Indianapolis and was a brunette. It was Claremont. I remember this girl didn't want to go with me and I had to force her. I've gone to Wisconsin to reenactments there. Last time was a year or so before.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
In the meantime, he was finally arrested and sent to the Grant County Jail in Marion, Indiana, while he waited for extradition to Illinois. But before that, Larry Hall recanted his confession. He said that what he told investigators that day was simply what he remembered from those dark dreams he would have. They weren't actual memories, he said.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
This was definitely considered a loss for investigators. Not only did they not find any evidence, but Larry Hall had recanted his confession. He said he had planted all that stuff in his van for attention.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But even so, they did have enough to place him under arrest for his part in the abduction of Jessica Roach. And on December 21st, 1994, Larry Hall was charged with one count of kidnapping for the purposes of sexual gratification. And six months later, on June 6th, 1995, Larry was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, while in jail, the bodies of four Jane Does were found around the Midwest. And based on their levels of decomposition, investigators theorize that they were all murdered before Larry Hall had been arrested. And he's actually a suspect in all four of those cases. But today, they remain unsolved.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
On December 2nd, 1997, Larry stood before Judge Joe B. McDade in Peoria, Illinois. Behind the defense table, Larry stood and made a statement to the court. He said, quote,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
I just wanted to say that all 35 years of my life, I've known the full value of every human life, every animal life on this earth, and that I've never in any way harmed Jessica Roach or any other poor, helpless young girl, and that I hate and despise people who do harm to people that can't defend themselves. And I have never in my life actually hurt anyone.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And I pray to God someday you'll know that that's true and won't just have to accept my word for it. I pray to God that the word will come out eventually, that I had nothing to do with this crime, and that the confession, as they call it, from start to finish is totally fictitious and never happened. I did not kidnap Jessica Roach off her new bicycle. I'm not that kind of person.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And God help me, I pray that I'll be able to prove it someday." In turn, U.S. Attorney Lawrence Beaumont read a poem that Jessica Roach's family had written after her murder. Quote, "...we lost a great deal, now it's sorrow we feel. We tried to find you when you were lost." If I could change what happened, I would at any cost. At least you now feel no pain. I one day will see you alive again.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But if only good things I keep stressing, I will try to be God-impressing. I hope to be in this earthly paradise, because then the dead will rise. I'm sure you will too. What God wanted, you tried to do. Ultimately, Larry Hall was once again sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
The confidential informant was a man named Jimmy Keene. He had been convicted in 1997 of conspiracy to distribute controlled substances. And from there, he was sentenced to 10 years in a minimum security prison. But in 1998, after serving only 10 months of his sentence, Jimmy was approached by US Attorney Lawrence Beaumont. During their meeting, Beaumont pushed a large folder across the table.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And when Jimmy opened it up, he was shocked to see the dead mutilated body of a young girl. It was Jessica Roach. As Jimmy continued flipping through the pages, he found a picture of Trisha Reitler. Beaumont told Jimmy that Trisha had likely been killed by a suspected serial killer named Larry Hall and that they needed his help. They told Jimmy that they wanted to transfer him to Larry's prison.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Once there, he would befriend him. And if Jimmy could get Larry to tell them the whereabouts of Trisha Reitler's body, then they would let Jimmy walk free with a clean criminal record. However, if he failed, there would be no early release. Now, this wasn't an easy decision. Larry was at a maximum security prison with mentally ill and violent offenders.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But Jimmy still had nine years left of his sentence, and his father was growing older. In his novel, In With the Devil, Jimmy wrote, quote, So ultimately, Jimmy accepted the offer. Now after being transferred to Larry's prison, Jimmy was instructed to be patient.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Larry Hall was a very introverted man who didn't have a lot of friends, so he couldn't just walk up and start asking him questions right away. In fact, Jimmy was told to wait six whole months before he even approached Larry, but Jimmy didn't want to wait that long. So, not long after he was transferred, he pretended to bump into Larry on his way out of the cafeteria.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
At first, Larry was on edge, but Jimmy quickly apologized. He told Larry that he was new to prison and that he needed help finding the library. Luckily, Larry took the bait. Together, they walked to the library. Once there, Jimmy thanked Larry for being cool, and according to Jimmy, Larry responded, You think I'm cool?
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
That was never an adjective people used when describing Larry Hall, and this would mark the start of their little pseudo-friendship. Over the next few weeks, Jimmy continued to strike up conversations with Larry Hall, and eventually, Larry asked Jimmy to have breakfast with him and the group of inmates he hung out with.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, Larry's group in the prison was referred to as baby killers, and they were all the social outcasts. One of the men had taken a chainsaw and killed his entire family, and another had murdered two young girls. And then there was Larry, who also killed young girls. So Jimmy wasn't excited to have breakfast with them, but he had to. And slowly over time, he began to earn Larry's trust.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
About four months into his transfer, Jimmy and Larry were spending nearly every day together, and up until this point, Larry wasn't comfortable discussing his crimes. But on this day, he finally admitted that he had been convicted of killing a young girl named Jessica Roach. Larry told Jimmy that he had been in the Georgetown area for a reenactment.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And while there, he spotted the 15 year old pushing her bike down the road. So he pulled over and asked if she needed any help. Now, Larry made sure to point out that Jessica wanted to talk to him and that she willingly got into the van. But when he tried to kiss her, she began to freak out. So using a chloroform rag, he placed it over her face.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
From here, Larry said that he tied her up in the back of the van and drove to a remote location. When Jimmy asked if he had sex with her, he responded,
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, like we mentioned, Larry did really poorly in school. By the time he was in junior high, he was still reading below a sixth grade level. With his low IQ, it was difficult for him to grasp the curriculum. But the one subject he always did really well in was history. He loved hearing the stories of all the different wars, especially the United States Civil War.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But sadly, Larry wouldn't reveal where Trisha was located. However, a few weeks later, Jimmy said that he walked into the prison workshop where he saw Larry looking at a map with all of these red dots over locations in Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin. But when Jimmy walked over, Larry quickly closed the map and pushed it off to the side.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Jimmy believed that the map showed the locations of where Larry's victims were buried, but he wasn't able to get a hold of it. And soon after this, Jimmy and Larry actually got into an altercation. During which, Jimmy told Larry he was a piece of shit for killing those young girls. And from then on, their relationship was over. And Jimmy's time as an informant had come to an end.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Now, even though he wasn't able to help investigators find Trisha's body, he did get Larry to confess to Trisha's murder. He didn't get it on recording or anything, but investigators gave him a polygraph regarding all the information he had received from Larry, and he passed. So, on February 24th, 1999, U.S.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Attorney Beaumont urged a federal judge to give Jimmy credit for time served, and he was allowed to leave prison a free man. He even got to spend another five years with his father, until his death in 2004. But sadly, their operation didn't go as planned, and to this day, the body of Trisha Reitler has never been found.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
However, her parents, Gary and Donna Reitler, still cling to hope that one day they will have answers. Here's what they told CNN in their special report to catch a serial killer.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
But other than that, he really struggled in school, and it was still hard for him to make friends. By the time he was hitting puberty, Larry was described as short, chubby, and he had a lot of acne, something that kids would make fun of him for. It was reported that he would often walk through the halls with his head down. However, on the other hand, his brother Gary was thriving.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Today, Larry Hall is serving out his life sentence in the federal correctional complex, Butner, in North Carolina. He will remain incarcerated for the rest of his life. And in honor of today's episode, we will be making a donation to Night Owl Reconnaissance, a non-profit organization that searches for missing people and provides support for families. Hey, everybody.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. If you are interested in the story, Apple TV actually created a very good miniseries called Blackbird about that informant operation. It's a really great miniseries. It's very well acted, very well shot. So if you want to see kind of the intricacies of what happened inside of the prison, it's very interesting.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
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Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
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Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
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Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Gary had a big friend group. He was popular, outgoing, and he was involved in school sports. So the two brothers couldn't have been more different from one another. Larry often compared himself to his twin brother. He wanted to be more like him, but he didn't know how. Which only led Larry to have even more insecurities.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
Anyways, y'all, thank you so much for tuning in. Courtney and I hope everybody has an absolutely incredible weekend and I'll catch y'all on the next one.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
they would never be anything more at age 15 larry and gary started to get into some trouble that year they were actually arrested for breaking a storefront window in downtown wabash once the boys were taken to the station they sat down with detective ron smith and apparently larry confessed that he was the one who broke the window from there robert and bernice were forced to pay the damage a total of five hundred dollars
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
and Robert made Larry mow the cemetery lawn to pay it back. But this was only the beginning of a set of petty crimes Larry would be responsible for. During the late 1970s and early 1980s, several mysterious fires were set around Wabash, including fires at a lumberyard, a bridge, and a few buildings. Now, they were never able to catch the arsonist, but they always suspected it was the Hall twins.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
And later on, Larry would later admit that he was responsible for the fires. And by this point, he had admitted to and committed two specific behaviors that are often seen in budding serial killers, bedwetting and setting fires.
Murder In America
EP. 200: SERIAL KILLER Larry Hall
That day, out in a rural area of Natrona County, Wyoming, a nude body of a woman was found in a shallow grave. Horrifically, she had barbed wire knotted around her neck that indicated the cause of death was strangulation. But because she was in such an advanced state of decomposition, she wouldn't be identified for years.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
The drug in the package was heroin, and Boone knew that what he had just acquired was worth a lot of money to all of the drug-addicted adults around him. Having watched his parents and family struggle with poverty, Boone hoped that hustling the streets and doing whatever he could, even if it was illegal, could provide a stable source of income for his family.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
So Boone and Germ flipped the drugs and made a profit. Keep in mind, all of this is happening when Boone is only nine years old. After the two friends had sold off all of the heroin they had acquired, Boone and Germ then decided to go across the street and have a conversation with the local drug dealer, a man named Charlie.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Of course, Charlie didn't take Boone and Germ seriously as, at the time, like we said, they were only 9 years old. However, both boys refused to take no for an answer. Boone knew that this may be his only opportunity to prove himself and gain entrance into the lucrative criminal underworld of Detroit.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
So, in order to prove himself, Boone told Charlie that he knew Jesse, the man that they had robbed, owed him money for the 40 bags of heroin that they had stolen. Boone then said that he and Germ knew where Jesse was, and to prove themselves, they would either bring Jesse back to Charlie, or they would get Charlie the money that he was rightfully owed for the stolen drugs.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
So, acting on Charlie's orders, Boone and Germ went down to Bluebird and confronted Jesse.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Nate Boone Craft is one of the most infamous figures in Detroit gang history, as he's appeared on the History Channel, in documentaries, and has told his story many times across various forms of media. Boone himself claims that he has murdered almost 30 people in his life and claims that he can't even recall every single kill that he's carried out, and he has quite the life story.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
It was an intense experience setting up our equipment, inviting Boone over to our Airbnb in Detroit and preparing for the sit-down interview. I had never interviewed a murderer or even someone who had killed somebody before, but I couldn't believe that we were actually going through with this.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
During the race riots of 1967, the violence and destruction was so intense that the National Guard and Army had to be called in to help maintain control. However, Boone soon noticed that a lot of the Army men were also heroin users. So, during the riots, in the dead of night, Boone would sneak around the streets of Detroit, locate heroin users that were in the Army and National Guard,
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
and sell them drugs soon enough the army men who saw boone prowling about started to inquire about liquor and boone who had looted a lot of the local stores informed them that they could come down to his house located at 814 continental and buy whatever they wanted Soon enough, Boone had earned a reputation as a hustler at just 10 years old.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
So, seeing that his illegal business was growing, Boone decided to approach the first drug dealer he was working with, Charlie, and ask him to give him some more opportunities to make money.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
As it turned out, Boone didn't like being talked down to, and after issuing two warnings to Charlie to no avail, he pulled the trigger and ended his life in what would be his first of many murders. Boone had just killed his first individual, at just 10 years old, by shooting him.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Once Charlie was dead, Boone and Germ then spent the next two hours going through his house and robbing him of all the drugs and money that he had. They then took the stash they had recovered, hid it in Boone's basement, and returned to Charlie's house to dispose of his dead body.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
But it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to sit down with a hitman, to hear his story, and to try and figure out when and where the darkness began. This is going to be an intense, disturbing, and graphic episode, so listener discretion is heavily advised. I'm Colin Browen. I'm Courtney Browen. And you're listening to Murder in America.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
At just 10 years old, the two friends then dug a shallow grave and buried Charlie's body in his own backyard, leaving the corpse to rot and decompose in their neighborhood.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
After Charlie's murder, the money started to dry up and Boone and Germ knew that they were going to have to go out and find a new way to make money. It was obvious that even from an early age, Boone had a strong desire to obtain as much wealth as he could, and no one was going to get in his way. So, one day, Boone and Jerm were hanging out at Charlie's house when the phone rang.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Boone knew that it would probably be the drug connection, calling to speak with Charlie, who was dead, and so wanting to drum up some business, Boone himself picked up and answered the phone call. In a deep tone of voice, trying to act like an adult, he told the person on the phone that Charlie wanted to meet him at the usual spot, a local restaurant, to talk about business.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Courtney, my wonderful wife, writes the show, we co-host the show together, and it's a passion project of ours that we're so lucky and fortunate has grown to be what it is today. In this episode that you're about to hear though,
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Since Charlie was dead, Boone and Germ knew that it would be their one opportunity to try and persuade the powerful drug connection to work with them instead.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
After getting their hands on another big cache of drugs, it was only a matter of time before the money started to roll in again, but suddenly, Germ started having second thoughts. He told Boone that he didn't need that much money, and that his mother was always searching the house, finding his profits and stealing them, so what was the point?
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
But Boone at this point was already too deep into the game, and was hungry for more. His next big purchase was going to be a car, despite the fact that he was only 10 years old. He decided that it wasn't smart to continue walking around the streets though, so once he had enough money, he approached his older brother Pop and asked for his help.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
As word spread, the witnesses inside the Bilo were able to identify the two boys inside the store, and soon the police were at Boone's mother's house. Interestingly, the Bilo workers were able to identify him as, from time to time, he had worked odd jobs at the grocery store for extra cash.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Both Boone and Germ were then arrested and sent to a youth home, and Boone was eventually made a ward of the court once it was determined by a judge that his mother simply had too many children inside the house. So, Boone stayed at the youth center for a few months before he was transferred to the Wayne County Child Development Center.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Eventually, he was placed into a foster home with a white family who owned a farm. And in a later interview, Boone said that he had never been called derogatory names such as the C-word and the N-word until he went to live with the white family. But while he was there under that roof, he had faced extreme racism.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
While he was in foster care, Boone was forced to sleep in the farm family's attic, and they made him wake up early in the morning to tend to the miscellaneous farm chores in and around the house. Eventually, though, Boone found himself in trouble again, this time with his foster father, after he walked in on Boone having sex with one of his daughters.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Not welcomed back at the home, Boone was then sent back to the youth home and then transferred once again to the Wayne County Child Development Center, where he stayed for a significantly longer time. He admitted that the other kids at the development center had issues and ran around and acted crazy. At one point, Boone used a baseball bat to hit another kid and escaped on foot.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
He ended up at his mother's house, but the police quickly came and detained him and he was brought back to the development center. However, the harassment from the kid didn't stop, and once again, Nate used the baseball bat to defend himself. This time, after the assault, he was taken to the quiet room, where he was kept until it was decided what they were going to do with him.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
There were other instances of violence from Boone as well, and he himself even admitted to me that he also hit a kid with a fire extinguisher after he continued to mess with him.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Eventually, he was sent to the nearby Hawthorne Center for a psychiatric evaluation.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
The mission statement for Hawthorne Center stated that it, quote, is to provide emotionally disturbed children and adolescents with evidence-based, supported, and trauma-informed inpatient mental health services that meet the highest standards of quality in the context of an integrated, patient-centered, proactive safety culture. However, after six months at what Boone dubbed, quote, the Nuthouse,
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
I actually sat down in Detroit, Michigan with a man who claims he's murdered over 30 people The man's name is Nate Boone Craft, otherwise known as the Grim Reaper Nate has gained the reputation throughout his life as Detroit's number one most notorious hitman And his life story is heartbreaking, infuriating, disturbing, disgusting, and most of all, shocking.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
It was true, the people of Detroit were really living the American dream. They earned good money, had a steady, reliable job, and overall, life was good. The city was clean and prosperous, there were plenty of jobs, and there was a hell of a lot of money moving hands in the metro area.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Boone wanted no part of that business, so he left the apartment and went back to the Grand Circus bus stop, where he slept on and off for a few weeks. Eventually, the same prostitute that he had stayed with for the night found Boone and told him that her pimp, a man named Jerome, had been missing ever since the night that he spent at her house.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Boone played dumb and said he had no idea where he was, but in reality, Boone and his friend Germ had disposed of the pimp's body in a nearby dumpster. With Jerome now out of the picture, Boone then stepped in and offered to become the woman's protector, basically her bodyguard, for a fee.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Eventually, word spread that Boone didn't harm women and actually wanted to protect them, and soon other prostitutes left their pimps to hire Boone as their protector as well. He earned 10% of everything they brought in for the night, and he made sure that no pimps or Johns laid a finger on the women.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
However, as the years went on, the rise of technology reduced the need for manual labor, and many factory jobs were outsourced to other countries and states where labor was cheaper. In addition, foreign automaker competition, specifically in countries like Japan, Korea, and Germany, threatened the American car market.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Soon, Boone's street reputation grew, and before long, he was known across the city of Detroit as someone not to be crossed or messed with. But the hustle of the pimp life wasn't long lived after Boone met a young woman and the two became boyfriend and girlfriend. Eventually, Boone left the game entirely to pursue a family life with his girlfriend after they found out that she was pregnant.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Eventually, the money and job opportunities dried up, Detroit factories began to shut down, and people lost their jobs. Unfortunately, life for African-Americans in Detroit didn't appear to be the golden opportunity that they had hoped for. Even in the north, they were often discriminated against and were blocked from purchasing and renting homes in predominantly white areas.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Now, at nearly 20 years old with a growing family, Boone decided that he wanted to join the United States Army. And so, he enlisted and was sent to basic training and boot camp. One night, while he was home for a few weeks on leave, he decided to go down to a local bar with Germ and some other friends from Detroit.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
During this time period, a song called The Freaky Deaky was popular, and Boone found himself propped up against the bar watching everyone else do the dance. At one point, one of the women dancing approached Boone and started to grind up against him. This apparently infuriated the woman's boyfriend, and he walked up to Boone and hit him on the side of the head.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
The next day, the man's dead body was found in the alleyway behind the bar, and the police arrived at Boone's house to question him regarding his involvement. Boone denied shooting the man, but the police wanted to take him down to the station and book him on charges of manslaughter and carrying a concealed weapon. If convicted, Boone was facing a lengthy prison sentence.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Eventually, though, the army got involved and told the Detroit Police Department that Boone indeed had a license to carry a gun as he was still in the service. The charges were then dropped and Boone was allowed to go on and serve another tour in the army.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
But after returning home from this tour, Boone's freedom would be short-lived after he was picked up by the police for armed robbery and possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime. In an interview, Boone admitted that that time, he wasn't the one that committed the crime and it had really been his older brother, Pop.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
But Boone didn't want to snitch on his own brother, so he went down for the crime and served two years for gun possession and two years for armed robbery at the state prison in Jackson, Michigan. However, during this prison stint, Boone continued to conduct his illegal activities from behind bars. He sold drugs, knives, and ran a gambling table for other inmates while still in prison himself.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
He soon became known as the go-to guy for any items that someone might need while imprisoned in the clink. He allegedly held so much power while behind bars that he even convinced one of the female prison guards to smuggle in a gun for him.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
In fact, real estate agents at that time were told to steer the black community away from white neighborhoods in an attempt to keep the area segregated. The black community's presence in Detroit wasn't welcomed. And at the time, the white population felt threatened as there was now an increased competition for housing and jobs, which eventually led to racial tensions within the city.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
My friend Josh, who was there in person conducting this interview with Boone with me, asked Boone if he regretted any of the murders he carried out during this time of his life. And shockingly, this is what he had to say. Do you regret any of those deaths?
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Hey everyone, it's Colin Browen here from the podcast Murder in America. If you don't know, Murder in America is a weekly show that takes a deep dark look at some of the most disturbing murder cases that have ever rocked the country that we call home.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
During his time spent in prison, Boone had earned himself the nicknames Iceman and the Grim Reaper, due to the fact that he didn't think twice about knocking off a prison guard if they made the wrong move. And this nickname, like I said before, had attached itself to him outside of the prison walls too.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Boone had had enough of the drug peddling and minor crimes, and had moved on to committing stone-cold murder for profit. I mean, he had been trained by the United States Army, he was in the military, so at that point, he had the skill set to become a killing machine.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
And soon enough, after word of his military-trained killer capabilities spread around Detroit, Boone's reputation garnered the attention of a local gang called the Best Friends. On the night that Boone first met his future co-workers, a few best friends members had actually gone out to a tough man contest at Detroit's Cobo Hall, where Boone frequently boxed to release his pent-up aggression.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Boone, over the years, had proved himself as a ruthless boxer inside the ring, and so, on that night, they decided to bring in a professional to face him, named Eric David Scott Esch, better known in the professional boxing arena as Butterbean. It was a highly anticipated match amongst locals that were in the scene, and the events of that night would prove to be life-changing for Boone.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
In June of 1943, a race riot broke out and 25 African Americans were killed, 17 of those people being killed directly by the Detroit Police Department.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
This only further drove a wedge between the white and black communities, and despite their determination to move on, the black community was often met by unwelcoming committees that showed up when African Americans attempted to move into white neighborhoods.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
After defeating Butterbean, Boone's ego soared, and after the match, he was approached by his nephew Bruiser, who said that the Brown brothers from the notorious Best Friends gang wanted to speak with him about a potential job opportunity.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Hey everybody, it's Colin here. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Murder in America. This was crazy conducting this interview with Boone. It was just wild hearing these stories coming from his mouth. And when he was telling stories about, you know, murdering somebody, he would be looking me in the eyes and it just gave me a chill.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
And yeah, next week's episode is the finale of this two-part series. And let me tell you, There is some truly shocking, disturbing stuff that we talk about in the next episode, so that's definitely not one to miss. In my opinion, it could be the best episode we've ever done. That's just my opinion.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Anyways, if you love the show and you want to help support what we do here, definitely go check out our Patreon. We have bonus episodes on there. We're changing the Patreon up as we speak, uploading higher quality content, longer content, so... This is a great time to join us on there. You can also get early ad-free access to all of our episodes.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
The black community was then forced to move into small, segregated portions of the city, areas that had names like Black Bottom and Paradise Valley. However, white people in Detroit blamed the black people for the growing racial tensions in the city. And in 1949, the federal government funded what would be known as slum clearance.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
So if you love the show, you hate ads, and you want bonus content, definitely head to patreon.com and search Murder in America. Also, don't forget to follow us on social media, especially on Instagram at Murder in America. Join our group on Facebook. You can listen to our new podcast, The Conspiracy Files, anywhere you get your podcasts. And if you're feeling a little spooky...
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
definitely go check out my YouTube channel, The Paranormal Files, where I post a lot of true crime documentaries and ghost hunting stuff. Anyways, y'all, we will see you guys next week for the conclusion of this two-part series. Definitely not one to miss. We love you, and thanks for listening. I'll catch y'all in the next one.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
During a slum clearance, government agents would go into predominantly African-American areas and demolish black owned businesses, schools, homes and churches. Once again, throughout all of this, the black community was displaced and in search of new areas to live.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
So after listening to this episode, if you want to hear the conclusion to Nate's story, which is a crazy episode, just check out our show, Murder in America. The episode has already been posted to our feed, and Courtney and I both do hope that you enjoy the show. Warning, the following podcast is not suitable for all audiences.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
This rapid departure of middle class residents leaving the city created a steep and sudden decline in the city's revenue that had once been used to provide essential services. The lack of tax money coming in then further escalated the decay of the city and buildings, homes and businesses were abandoned. As of today, there are still over 18,000 abandoned homes in the city of Detroit.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
There are abandoned vehicle production plants, abandoned schools, abandoned hospitals, any type of building or former business, you name it, and I can guarantee that there is an example of one that is abandoned in the city of Detroit. In fact, on my YouTube channel, I recently released a documentary where we explored a number of abandoned buildings in Detroit, and it is shocking stuff.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
As the years progressed, the ghost town atmosphere of Detroit became a breeding ground for criminal activity. In the 1980s, the rapid increase in production and distribution of the addictive drug crack cocaine opened doors for drug traffickers in the city to make a lot of money.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
In fact, after the drug really began showing up on the market around the year 1984, tens of thousands of Detroit citizens, both male and female, found themselves roped into the new crack economy. At that time, the crack epidemic was touching people from all portions of society.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
In fact, it was a reported fact in local newspapers that many members of the Detroit Police Department themselves were penalized for doing crack on the job, which obviously led to violent, erratic behavior when dealing with reports and responding to calls. When there's a demand, there will always be a supplier.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
And in Detroit, when the demand for drugs grew, multiple gangs sprung up and began vying for control of the supply and distribution of crack cocaine in the city. And all of the demand and money involved in the drug trade, of course, led to a violent and bloody competition between rival gangs who wanted to control the Detroit drug market themselves.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
Out of the chaos and devastation of Detroit's crack cocaine epidemic rose a group of young men who would go on to become what some would call street legends in the city, a group known as the Best Friends Gang. And one member of the Best Friends Gang would go down in history as Detroit's most dangerous hitman.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
And at one point, the mere mention of his name struck fear in anyone within Detroit's criminal underworld. That man's name was Nathaniel Boone Craft.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
We go into great detail with every case that we cover and do our best to bring viewers even deeper into the stories by utilizing disturbing audio and sound effects.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
This podcast is not for everyone. You have been warned. For today's episode, I had the opportunity to sit down and interview a hitman who worked for a Detroit gang known as the Best Friends, a gang infamous in Michigan that was responsible for dozens, if not hundreds, of murders.
Serial Killers
Holiday Break: "The Grim Reaper" - Nate Boone Craft
After observing Jesse enter the drug house, the two young boys then went inside Boone's home, put on ski masks, and snuck around to the back alley of the drug house where they sat and waited for Jesse to emerge.