Chico Felitti
Appearances
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And did you feel anything while you were soaking in the alien bath?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Soon after that alien bath, a couple of weeks after, you moved from Brazil to the U.S.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And can you describe how was that move and what happened when you got there?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
She kind of let you go, but she wanted to charge you $7,000 for an alien bath.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Why do you think you specifically got away? Because many other young women weren't able to get away, like Desiree, the other Leticia, Jamila.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
I think your family support had some sort of role there, didn't it? You were really close to your parents. They were there for you.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And looking back, how did your time with CAT impact your personally or psychologically? How do you look back at this experience of almost being a victim of human trafficking?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And why do you think that influencers like cat stories have so much power nowadays?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And now, do you still follow influencers on Instagram, TikTok, or are you done with that kind of content?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Hi, Leticia. Thank you so much for being here. It's nice to see you again.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
I really want... You go the right way. You look the right person for the right job.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
I'm happy to hear that. And how was the feeling when you found out Kat had been arrested and later convicted?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Just to clarify for the listeners, we met twice in New York City. Is that right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Leticia, I appreciate so much your time. Thanks so much for talking to me. I wish you the best life in the US.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Follow Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Let's start from the beginning, if that's okay. Can you walk me through the day you found out who Cat Torres was when you first saw her on the Internet?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
If you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to us at wondery.com slash tips. From Wondery, this is a bonus episode of Don't Cross Cat. Don Cross Cat is hosted and reported by me, Chico Felitti. Producer is Andrés Caballero. Senior producer is Fernanda Echavarri. Associate producers are Giovanna Romano Sanchez and Otávio Bonfá.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Additional production assistance by Beatriz Trevisan and Elizabeth Lowenthal Torres. Theme song by Mariana Romano. Mixing by Stephanie Lebon. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Vialpondo. Project Manager is Nancy Trujillo. And Supervising Senior Production Manager is Jessica Ellis. Managing Producer is Heather Baloga. Development Producer is Olivia Weber. Senior Development Editor is Rachel B. Doyle.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Production services by Futuro Studios. Executive producers for Futuro Studios are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Executive producers for Wondery are Russell Finch, George Lavender, Marshall Lewy, and Jen Sargent.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Like you, many people met Kat through memes. So did I. I mean, there were memes like pictures of her looking disheveled and looking tired and saying, have you ever kissed in the rain? So people thought Kat Torres was a Shutterstock model. Many of us did not know she was a real person, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
After finishing the series, I couldn't stop thinking about one person. No, not Kat, though I did think about her a lot. I found myself thinking about a young woman who became enamored by Kat. Someone who got close to her. Very close. The woman's name is Leticia. Leticia Tupinambá. The other Leticia who came close to joining Kat in that big house in Texas.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And dad jokes, right? So those pictures covered with dad jokes. Yeah.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And what were the first posts you came across online? What were the first pictures or videos you saw of the life coach Ketoris, not the meme Ketoris?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Those were snippets, but little. Yes, she would take them from books and translate to Portuguese. We came to find out. It's really interesting that you got in touch with her. And it wasn't the image that drawn you. It was the writings itself.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
When did you start exchanging messages with her? Because first you're just following the profile, right? Yes. And then when do you start writing her and when she writes back?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
So you had been following her for about a year, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And what were your problems at that time? How was your life when you started following Cat Taurus?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And what were the problems you were facing with your relationship with your back then boyfriend?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And what would she tell you to behave like? What was the type of girlfriend she would advise you to be?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
She advised you to be insecure and to be sort of jealous of him. Is that right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
If I recall right, you were also having troubles with the college you were going to, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
We didn't hear about her in the podcast, but she almost became one of Kat's victims. So I reached out to her. She was living in New York City, so she joined me from a studio in Brooklyn. And what she told me gave me more insight into Kat's appeal.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And you were studying at a really, really good school. How did you feel when she said that to you? And did you want to be an influencer? How did that sound to you?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
How much would you pay for a session with her, for a consultation with her back in the day?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
It's so much. It's half of a monthly minimum wage in Brazil. The monthly minimum wage in Brazil currently is 200, about $200, a little bit more than that. But it's a lot of money, especially if you're a student like yourself living abroad. In a new city, 2000 miles away from your family. How did you get this money?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And how would you make a living? Did she offer you a job? Did she say what you would do for work?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And when did you decide you were going to the United States?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
And what was she offering? Did she tell you something like you can live in my house in Leander? What was the proposition there?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
I'm Chico Felitti, and this is a bonus episode of Don't Cross Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
I'm Chico Felitti, and this is a bonus episode of Don't Cross Cat. Let's get back to my conversation with Leticia Tupinamba. Before the break, Cap had told Leticia that once she moved to Texas, she would work as a sugar baby and give all her earnings to Cap.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
You just were afraid of what she could do to you if you said no to her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The One Who Got Away | 7
Prior coming to the US, you actually met Leticia for an alien bath. Is that so? Can you describe what happened there?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Hey, Chico here. Just wanted to let you know that this episode has a short mention of self-harm. Please take care while listening. It was the middle of the night. Patty's face glowed in the light of her phone.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
As in the drug cartels. Even though Austin is nowhere near the Mexican border, and Kat had no connections whatsoever with the cartels.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Now Patty was really scared. Not only about what might happen to her and her friends if they kept poking, but about Desiree's safety.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Hours after Desiree reappeared in that video, another message came through.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
It said, Kat ended the text message by writing, This got Patty's mind racing even more. Oh, why she's talking about suicide? The line about suicide spooked Patty. Up to now, she had thought Kat was just a scammer. But what if she was actually capable of harming Desiree and the others?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Then, as fear swirled around the group, people started to drop out.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Lau, by the way, is not her real name. Her words are spoken by an actor because she and other members of the group still fear retaliation. And there were other members of the group who didn't even know Desiree, like Lau's friend, Mada.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Patty got more and more worried as the group dwindled. This was a crucial moment. Desiree was in danger. Someone needed to talk to the media. Someone needed to reach out to the authorities. Someone needed to give their contact details out to new witnesses.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
And Patti was scared too. She had a new job. She had her family to take care of.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
But even in moments of doubt, Patti remembered Desiree. She wanted her friend back. Someone needed to step forward. So she made a decision.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
But being the face of the search meant also becoming a target, even for someone who Patty thought would never betray her. About a month after the hostage video, Patty was sunbathing on the beach. She had booked a vacation to visit her family in Brazil. It was her once-a-year trip to recharge, and this year she needed it more than ever. But it wouldn't last long.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
She went online and checked Kat's profile. And there it was.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Kat had released Patty's private personal information for anyone to see. All of it. But that wasn't even the worst part.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
To be falsely accused of such harmful things and with real pictures of her children and with their names, addresses and phone numbers, it was unimaginable.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
And there was something else eating at Patty. Where did Kat get her information from? Kat didn't know her address. She didn't have access to photos of her kids or even their names. There was only one person who could possibly have shared that with her. Patty's own friend, Desiree. She had to be behind this.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
After everything she had done to help Desiree, this was a thanks she got?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Here's the thing. Patty was convinced that there was another reason Kat had done this. It was because of something that had happened in the weeks before. Something that made Patty more sure that Desiree was in danger.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Her words are also spoken by an actor, by the way. Patty felt relieved to join the group.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
It was a website called Eros, as in the Greek god of desire.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
On one page were photos of a semi-naked woman and a list of services. Dancer slash escort offering fetish and fantasy. It was Desiree.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Look, all kinds of people with different personalities get into sex work, right? But to Patty, Desiree was one of the most romantic people she knew. She wasn't into casual relationships. Her friend, the Desiree Patty knew, wouldn't go on an escort website on her own.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Patti knew she had to warn the world about what Cat was doing to her friend. So not long after, the Searching for Desiree Instagram page had a new post. It said Cat was using the vulnerability of Brazilian women to lure them into prostitution. Days after that post, Cat published the photos of Patti's kids.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
So yeah, Patty knew what Kat had done had completely crossed the line, but it showed Patty that Kat was desperate. She was willing to do anything to stop the search, which made Patty even more convinced. She was getting closer. And even if Desiree had given her kids' details to Kat, Patty was still determined to find her. There was one other photo on the escort site that caught Patty's attention.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
A woman with the name Star. Patty knew the face instantly. It was Leticia, the other missing girl whose mother had asked for help. There was no way Patty was going to drop the search now. Follow Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. If you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to us at wondery.com slash tips. From Wondery, this is episode two of six of Don't Cross Cat. Don Cross Cat is hosted and reported by me, Chico Felitti. Producer is Andres Caballero. Senior producer is Fernanda Echavarri.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Associate producers are Giovanna Romano Sanchez and Otavio Bonfá. Additional production assistance by Beatriz Trevisa. Fact-checking by Zoe Sullivan. Voice acting by Renata Saldar and Caroline Cota de Mello Freitas. Theme song by Mariana Romano. Sound design by Stephanie Lebeau and Jacob Rossati. Additional mixing by Julia Caruso and JJ Carubin. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Vialpondo.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Managing producer is Heather Balocca. Development producer is Olivia Weber. Senior development editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Production services by Futuro Studios. Executive producers for Futuro Studios are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Executive producers for Wondery are Russell Finch, George Lavender, Marshall Louis, and Jen Sargent.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
But it also made one thing very clear. Patty wasn't the only one who had been ghosted. Desiree had cut everyone who loved her out of her life.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
After appearing on Oprah, thousands flocked to seek the guidance of renowned self-help guru James Arthur Ray. He was a charismatic speaker whose unorthodox methods and philosophies promised his followers a clear path to wealth and to happiness. But what many didn't know about were his more extreme methods.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
methods which pushed his followers to their limits, giving some the transformative experience they dreamed of and killing others. From Wondery, the makers of Dr. Death and Kill List, Guru, The Dark Side of Enlightenment, explores the dark side of self-improvement and the devastating price of blind faith.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
You can binge all episodes of Guru exclusively and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Start your free trial in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Patty was sure if she could just talk to Desiree, reason with her, maybe she could find a way to break Cat's spell. But to do that, she had to find her first.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
From Wondery, I'm Chico Felitti, and this is Don't Cross Cat. Episode 2. Searching for Desiree. Even in a very online world, it's surprising how hard it is to find someone if this person doesn't want to be found. Desiree had been silent for over three months now. All the searchers really knew was that Desiree and her life coach Kat were living together somewhere in Texas.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
But they had no real idea where to even begin to track them down. At first, they thought they could just outsource it all to a detective. But they quickly realized none of them had that kind of money. So they came up with another plan.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Each of the women had turned their homes into makeshift investigation headquarters. Lau and Madá in Brazil, and Patty in Canada. They covered the walls in printouts of everything they knew about the case. And they kept a close watch on Kat's social media, trying to find new clues.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Kat did lots of live streams, promising her followers that if they listened to her, she would show them the truth and free them from troubles. Sometimes she mentioned the witches that worked for her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
They're super happy and they're doing so well, Kat said.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
But it was tough to find out anything specific about Tessie Ray. And there were so many videos of Kat to go through. Like a true influencer, she posted a lot. Patty would join other searchers on video calls to talk about clues.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
She was still awake and still scrolling through Instagram.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
As Patty and the others scrolled through Kat's old content, they began to find videos that were a little strange.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
A special ritual, which Kat called an alien bath. Kat stood in front of the tub wearing a see-through black blouse. One of her assistant witches sat behind her, drinking wine.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
She put in some rubber toys, a bag of Gumby Bears, bath bombs, plastic packaging and all, gold tinsel. It all seemed pretty harmless, until Cat added razor blades to the bath. Cat said the blades couldn't hurt, because she was an alien. As weird as this alien bath ritual was, Kat's followers on social media seemed to be into it.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
It was now more than three months since her best friend, Desiree, had ghosted all her family and friends and moved in with her supermodel life coach, Kat Torres. And every day, Patty spent hours searching through social media for any clues to their whereabouts. Her friends had begun to notice the effect it was having on her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Followers would write comments praising Cat for her psychic abilities and her beautiful life. She's so strong, they would say. She's a phoenix reborn from the ashes. Lau's friend, Mada, didn't know Desiree directly. But as she watched all of this unfold, it began to dawn on her what was happening.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
It wasn't just Cat's followers who believed in her powers. It also began to affect the searchers. Some of them got scared of Cat's abilities. One of them even feared that Cat could put a curse on her. Patty, Lau, and Mada realized that if even some of the searchers started believing in Cat's powers, then there were so many other young women out there who could easily fall for her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
They had to do more to warn people about Kat. They had to go public.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
They created a public Instagram account and uploaded a photo of Desiree.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Searchers used this new profile to flood Kat's Instagram with comments. Where's Desiree? What have you done to her friend? Mostly Kat just blocked them. But soon, word began to spread about their efforts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Every time Kat posted a new video, the group sifted through it looking for clues.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Patti Lau and Mada kept a giant Google Doc of every clue the group found. And little by little, they began to piece together a location. All the evidence seemed to point to somewhere in the middle of the state, near Austin. It was something, but still not enough. By now, though, the group was consuming Patty's life. She'd found a new job as a teacher, but her mind was often with Desiree.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Even when she was asleep, she couldn't shake the mystery. It still tormented her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
And then, one day, a message popped up in the Searching for Desiree Instagram account. It was from a middle-aged couple from the small town of Perdoins, in southeastern Brazil. They said they had a 21-year-old daughter. Her name was Leticia. She had been a follower of Kat. And like Desiree, she had gone to live with her in the U.S.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
It had been about five months since they last heard from her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Now it was clear to the searchers. This wasn't just about Desiree anymore. There were other women missing, too.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
And Patty was beginning to wonder if maybe they were right.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
I was targeted, premeditated, and meant to sow terror.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
But then she got a message on WhatsApp. It was an invite to a group chat called Friends of Desiree.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
The searchers struggled to process the fact there was another young woman missing. Leticia had only been 14 when she first started to follow Kat's teachings. This really, really hit Patty. One of her own children was about the same age. She couldn't stop thinking about Leticia's mom.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
Leticia's family told them they had been urging the police to take action. But progress was slow. Patty and the others kept up the search, but it wasn't until Desiree had been gone for six months that they finally got something to go on. At first, it was just another notification on Patty's phone, one of the many she got every single day.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
She tapped on it and froze when she saw the face on the video. She took a breath and hit play. There on her screen was Desiree. Stop looking for me. Stop asking about my whereabouts. If I blocked you, it's for a reason, she said.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
But the Desiree Patti saw in the video wasn't the one she remembered.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
One of the people in the group chat was Lau. She had met Desiree a few years before at an English language school.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
To the searchers, it looked like a hostage video. It didn't seem like her. Had Desiree been forced into filming it?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Searching for Desirrê | 2
The searchers began to cycle through all the worst case scenarios.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Not long after the consultation with Kat, Patty met up with Desiree at the gym. She had a plan for how to start the conversation with her. She was going to keep it simple.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty paused, waiting for Desiree's reaction.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Desiree just didn't want to hear what Patty was telling her about Kat. Kat's relationship with her followers seemed to be superficial, at least from what I could see publicly. Her fans would write comments complimenting her on her appearance and advice. Kat's response to them would be just emojis. Or she would try to sell herself, saying things like, hey, book a one-on-one with me.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
They put out the girl stuff in the front yard for anyone to take, which was interesting.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Essentially, Kat was hot, blonde, and appeared American. That was the big appeal. Anyway, after that day at the gym, Desiree only got more obsessed with Kat. It seemed Kat was all she talked about now. She talked about how Kat told her what to eat, what to wear, and even what to do with her husband.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Now Desiree was saying that she wanted her husband to be more spiritual, to join her in working with meditation, energy, and yoga. But Patty knew the spiritual stuff wasn't his thing.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
They'd been happily married for years. This was just normal couple stuff. And then came the pandemic.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
As COVID brought the world to a standstill, Desiree's life changed completely. Her husband lost his job, which meant that they would have to move back to Germany. Desiree promised to stay in touch with Patty as much as possible. But as she began her new life in Europe, Patty noticed that Desiree started to see more and more of Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty says Desiree was booking two, sometimes three consultations with Kat every week. And Desiree's husband noticed.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
And of course, Desiree told her life coach all about her husband's concerns. Patty could see how this was going to go for Desiree's marriage.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
It was mid-2021, about a year since Desiree had moved away to Germany. And Patty's phone rang.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Desiree believed her husband was using supernatural forces to keep her with him, an idea that Kat had put in her head. Patty told Desiree that it all sounded crazy to her, that she didn't think her husband even knew what black magic was. But Desiree believed Kat. A couple of months later, it was all over between Desiree and her husband.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty tried to support Desiree as much as she could across the time zones. She texted her all the time.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
One of the women was a social media influencer famous in Brazil with more than a million followers. I was there because, well, I'm kind of an influencer myself. But that was basically an accident. I'm a journalist first, and I've made a name for myself investigating stories in Brazil where things aren't quite what they seem.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
After one of her first dates, Desiree called Patty in tears. She told her she was 30 minutes late to her date and the guy got upset and said a bunch of mean things to her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty told her to ditch the guy. It wasn't worth her time. But when Desiree told Kat about it, she had a very different answer. Kat told Desiree that guys like him have a strong energy, so they need women with an energy that's a little more soft. And Desiree seemed to agree.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty's concerns kept growing. She decided to look at what Cap was posting on social media. And what she found was disturbing. When Patty looked online, she saw that Kat's social media had changed.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
She wasn't the same gentle life coach that Patty had met a few years before, when her online presence gave more of a yoga zen vibe, and she posted videos of inspirational meditations, breathing exercises, and positive affirmation. Now, she had become intense, angry even. She posted long videos rambling about paranoid conspiracy theories.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
On COVID, she told her followers not to self-isolate if they got infected. If they just believed hard enough, they would magically get cured. And she had found herself a large audience, more than a million followers, as well as her select group of paying clients, like Desiree. But she was getting noticed by other people too. An influential science blogger spoke out on YouTube.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
She warned everyone not to follow people like Kat on Instagram.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
And that's what brought me to Texas, because the woman who lived there, Cat Torres, seemed like she had a picture-perfect life online.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Then one day, just when Patty thought she had seen it all, a new, more bizarre video popped up on Kat's Instagram profile.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
She filmed herself against a white wall. No details provided. It was honestly all very cryptic. Like, how did she even have her cell phone with her? Anyway, she said she needed her followers to send money to help pay for ransom.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
A few days later, Kat posted another message.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
But Kat wasn't relaxed for long, because there was one of her followers who hadn't sent her any ransom money. Desiree. Kat went live on Instagram, talking to her million-strong following. She got crazy. Desiree is so fucking arrogant, Kat said. She's an idiot, I tell you. A moron.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Soon after, Patty got a frantic voice message from Desiree. She couldn't believe Kat would do that after everything she had done to show her loyalty. This is not the person I knew, Desiree said on the voice note. I'm not going to waste my time. Patty saw her chance. This was the moment she'd be waiting for, so she sent her a message back.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Finally, this was the fork in the road. The point when Desiree would see Cat for the scammer Patty saw. A week later, Patty noticed a new post on Kat's Instagram. Kat said she was making some changes around her house in Texas. She was expanding her business. And from now on, Kat wouldn't be the only one providing the coaching services. She had some assistants living with her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Wayne told me the more he looked through the stuff the women left behind, the more questions he had about them.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
The post read, Meet the witches who work for you. And there, in the photo, was a familiar face.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty realized the truth. Her best friend hadn't left Kat at all. Instead, Desiree had gone all in on what Kat had to offer.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Four or five days went by and nothing. Patty texted again. This time, Desiree did reply.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
How can you put an Instagram influencer ahead of the friendship we have? Betty wrote. Someone you're paying to give you attention. After that, Desiree disappeared.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty started looking for other people who may have been in touch with Desiree.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
She even called Desiree's former school in Brazil, hoping to find a contact for her parents.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
True friendships are often at the core of our lives. We share our innermost secrets with our friends. They are the people we turn to when we need help. The people we will drop everything for. But in an online world, it's easy to have a sense of closeness with the people we see on Instagram every day.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
So when a beautiful, rich influencer gives you attention, even if you're paying for your time with them, it could feel like a real connection. Like you really know them, and they really know you. Kat had more than a million followers, but she was showing Desiree one-on-one attention. And if you're a real-life friend, like Patty, how could you ever compete with that? Patty was about to find out.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
And that search for her missing friend was going to cost her a lot more than she had imagined. Still to come.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Very scary. That's all coming up on this season of Don't Cross Cat. Follow Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
If you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to us at wondery.com slash tips. From Wondery, this is episode one of six of Don't Cross Cat. Don't Cross Cat is hosted and reported by me, Chico Felitti. Producer is Andrés Caballero. Senior producer is Fernanda Echavarri. Associate producers are Giovanna Romano-Sanchez and Otávio Bonfá.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
And that was in all. Wayne started to wonder if he had been getting a little carried away. But soon he would see reports of what was really going on in that house, and he would realize that maybe he was right to have been suspicious. Because there was something troubling going on. Something dark. Dangerous, even.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Additional production assistance by Beatriz Trevisan. Fact-checking by Zoe Sullivan. Theme song by Mariana Romano. Sound design and mixing by Stephanie Lebeau. Additional mixing by Julia Caruso and JJ Carubin. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Vialpondo. Project manager is Nancy Trujillo. And supervising senior production manager is Jessica Ellis. Managing producer is Heather Baloga.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Development producer is Olivia Weber. Senior development editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Production services by Futuro Studios. Executive producers for Futuro Studios are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Executive producers for Wondery are Russell Finch, George Lavender, Marshall Lewy, and Jen Sargent.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
From Wondery, I'm Chico Felitti, and this is Don't Cross Cat. Like most of you and anyone else, I post on Instagram, quite often. I post pictures of the usual stuff, my dog, Pachorra, my travels, and my overpriced outfits. Actually, my producer pointed out that in quite a few posts, I don't seem to have my shirt on. But hey, cut me some slack. I'm Brazilian.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
I'm not the first Brazilian to set foot in Leander, Texas. And the Brazilian women who came and lived here before me made quite the impression on their neighbors. Wayne Murray lived across the street from them.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
I use Insta to post about my podcasts and my books too. I've been a journalist for 20 years now. I've reported all across Brazil, telling stories of armed conflict, homelessness, indigenous tribes, you name it. And somewhere along the line, people started following me. I remember when I reached 100,000 followers on Instagram and an American company offered me 10 grand to pose with a bag of chips.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
That was the exact same amount I got for a book that took me a year to write. A whole year. I'm not proud of it. It's something I only tell my shrink. But nowadays, I make a living from social media as much as being a journalist. This was not my plan, I have to emphasize. I promise. I became an influencer by chance. So, when I came across the story, I knew I had to know more.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Because it's all about influence. The lengths people will go to have it, and what they will do to keep it. This is episode one, The Witches Who Work For You. It all begins far from Brazil and far from Texas, in rainy Vancouver, in the fall of 2016. Patti Bertoldo was a 32-year-old from Brazil.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
She had a white smile and long light brown hair when she walked into Le Crocodile, an upscale French restaurant in the city center.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
It was Patty Bertoldo's first day on the job. She looked around her for someone to talk to as the restaurant staff bustled around her. She was not feeling great about being there. She had just moved to Canada from France and needed money.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
As she continued to walk through the restaurant, Patty came across a young woman who said hi to her right away. And she was... Beautiful.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Wayne says that in Leander, people do two things. Wave to each other and then mind their business. At least Wayne did. Then, in 2022, that's when these new neighbors moved there, right across the street.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty followed this array around the restaurant as she briefed her on her new co-workers. This one's really nice. That one is not trustworthy. This one's just, eh, okay, like most of them. Patty was taking note.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
It felt so comforting to talk to someone from Brazil. Someone who knew that in Brazilian Portuguese, we don't have an equivalent for personal space. Someone who knew that we don't just shake hands when we greet someone. Of course not. We kiss. Twice. Sometimes three times.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
After that first shift at the restaurant, Patti started seeing Desiree outside of work, at music festivals, the beach, picnics. And soon they started texting each other daily.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Desiree was in a wonderful marriage with a man from Germany. She and Patty became close. They talked for hours, sharing their life stories. Desiree told Patty she had some struggles.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
One day, on their way to yoga, Desiree told Patty about a famous Brazilian wellness influencer she just found online.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Her name was Kat Torres. She had hundreds of thousands of followers on social media. She posted inspirational quotes about manifesting and nourishing your body and your spirit. She posted hundreds of videos like this one, looking beautiful in an off-the-shoulder summer top.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
And here's the thing about Brazilians. We love a good life coach. It's up there with how much we love supermodels and soccer stars. Because we value happiness. A balanced life. And there are plenty of life coaches in Brazil who have found a lot of success by telling other people how to live their lives. For a fee, of course. Cat seems successful, healthy and wealthy.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
She posted about her designer bags, fancy hotels, even exotic-looking animals. She had a huge albino dog that looked like a wolf and a really big cat that looked like a leopard. Desiree's eyes lit up as she scrolled through Kat's posts. She told Patty this life coach had helped her manifest all the good things into her life. And the way she did that was through a special gift.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
That phrase, that cat talks to the light, stuck out to Patty.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
And there was something else about his new neighbors.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Desiree talked about how pretty Kat was, how insightful she was, how she could read people's energies, how she could communicate directly with the universe to find answers to people's questions. And around that time, Patti did have a lot on her mind.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
When Desiree heard about Patti's breakup, she insisted Patti try booking an appointment with Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty went home and pulled up Kat's website. She was curious, but skeptical. She scrolled through the supermodel photos and got to the payment plans.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
On the day of the appointment, Patty rushed home to get set up for the video call. She was a little nervous.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty was hoping to actually get some answers. Was she meant to be in Canada? Had her breakup been the right decision? Would she ever find happiness? So she sat down in front of her computer, ready for this beautiful woman with psychic abilities to tell her the answers. But then she wasn't there.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Tall, thin, gorgeous, right out of the latest Victoria's Secret fashion show. I mean, I'm super gay, and even I can see it. And it wasn't just having a house full of gorgeous Brazilian women in a nondescript American suburb that was unusual. One day, he just stopped seeing them. The house was empty. The women were gone. Eventually, a rental company came to clear the house.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Then, 20 minutes later, Kat finally appeared.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
So, okay, she was late, Patty thought. But Desiree had spoken so highly of Kat that this was about to be good. Real good, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Then Kat started talking about her guiding light.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
Patty had to hold back from rolling her eyes in front of Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Witches Who Work For You | 1
She didn't get why Desiree was so taken with Kat. So she decided she would gently bring it up with Desiree. Patty wasn't thinking about how Kat would feel about all of this. After all, Kev was just a life coach on social media. She couldn't cause any harm, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
It was past midnight. a police car turned into a quiet cul-de-sac in Leander, Texas. Two officers got out and walked up to one of the houses. The place was big and expensive looking, with white stone walls and a double garage. A young woman with bleach blonde hair answered the door. The police officer said they were here to do a welfare check.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Zach didn't seem too comfortable being on camera. But then again, he also seemed convinced that nothing Kat was doing was a problem.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
She wasn't to know yet, but that wouldn't be the last time the police would take an interest in what had been happening at this house. In fact, for everyone living there, that visit was just the beginning of a whole new level of chaos.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
It's hard to know how much Zach really knew at this point. But one thing is clear. He had become isolated from his family and increasingly dependent on Kat. Just like Toticia and Desiree.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
A few days after that conversation, Kat, Zach, Desiree, and Leticia were on the road again. This time, they all left for Maine, staying at another remote lake house. Then, a few days after that, Kat decided they should move yet again, this time to Miami. According to her book, it was at this point Desiree's faith in Kat began to waver. By the way, her words are spoken by an actor.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Kat told Desiree even if she did get arrested, she would use her magic to make the handcuffs fall off. Desiree was terrified of Kat, but she was also afraid of the police. She knew the sex work was illegal and was scared she could be in trouble with the law. She was stuck.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
But while on the road to Miami, something unexpected happened. A detective sent a message to Kat's phone asking for a video call. They were following up on the welfare check. And Kat instructed Desiree in detail what to say to the detective.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
In a video obtained by the BBC, you can see cell phone footage of Cat, Desiree and Leticia in a moving car when the detective calls. It's unclear who took the video, but you can see Cat in the front passenger seat. She sounds calm, confident even.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
She turned the camera directly to her and said, Listen, detective, I was struggling with depression, and Desiree wanted to support me during this difficult time. She's my friend, so that's why we're together in this. Kat told the detective that she was feeling better now. You need to help us, she said. There are people accusing me of things I didn't do. We are the ones at risk.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Kat ended the call confident as ever. Desiree and Leticia hadn't said a word to raise suspicion. But the strain was starting to show. The day after they got to Miami, Kat suddenly decided they needed to go back to Maine. Once at the airport, she got into a fight with Zach, who had been drinking. She told him she didn't want a drunk to be the father of her children.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
She may have been thinking of her own father. Then, she demanded he give back everything she had ever given him. Zach turned around and left barefoot, in his shorts, with no money, no documents. After Kat and Desiree arrived back to the rental in Maine, Kat realized she had left one of the windows cracked open. Her Kat had run away. In her book, Desiree says Kat turned on her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
The following morning, on November 1st, 2022, Desiree woke up to Kat's dog jumping on her back. The dog was terrified because Kat was screaming at someone on the phone. When the screams ended, Desiree got out of bed to see what was happening.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
The detective called Cat and told her she should go to the police station nearby if she wanted to file a formal complaint. Oh, and to bring Desiree and Leticia with her. Desiree had a bad feeling about the whole thing.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
While Kat was inside the police station, an officer came out and asked Desiree to follow him. He offered her water and asked her about her relationship with Kat. Desiree says in her book she stayed firm. She told him they were just taking a holiday together. No one was forcing her to do anything. Two hours later, Desiree said new agents arrived.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
That's when she realized the real reason they had all been summoned to the station. Law enforcement weren't so interested in Zach's death. The officers were investigating them. Then, immigration agents showed up. They took Kat, Desiree and Leticia into custody and drove them to a detention center an hour away. Desiree didn't know what to think.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Once at the detention center, immigration officers put Kat and Desiree in the same room. One of the officers told Kat her visa had expired more than a year prior. Kat had been in the country illegally. The officers then turned to Desiree. Her visa had also expired. They put her in handcuffs and said, you're under arrest. Moments later, they did the same to Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Desiree noticed Kat's handcuffs did not fall off as she had promised. It seemed like the spiritual entities that Kat had said would protect her weren't there to save her. This was not how things were supposed to turn out. This was not what Desiree had imagined would happen when she decided to visit her friend and guru in the United States. Now she was in jail, alone in a foreign country.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
But what she didn't realize was a turning point was coming. Soon she would need to make a choice. One between following Kat or finding a different future. A future that would also require her to answer to her old friend, Patty. Follow Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
You can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. If you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to us at wondery.com slash tips. From Wondery, this is episode five of six of Don't Cross Cat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Don't Cross Cat is hosted and reported by me, Chico Felitti. Producer is Andres Caballero. Senior producer is Fernanda Echavarri. Associate producers are Giovanna Romano-Sanchez and Otavio Bonfato. Additional production assistance by Beatriz Trevisa. Fact-checking by Zoe Sullivan. Voice acting by Mariana Goulart. Theme song by Mariana Romano. Sound design by Stephanie Lebeau and Jacob Rossati.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
From Wondery, I'm Chico Felitti, and this is Don't Cross Cap. Episode 5, closing in. It was the day after the police welfare check. All over Brazilian social media, people were waiting for news. People like Silmara Izuca.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Additional mixing by Julia Caruso and JJ Carubin. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Vialpondo. Project manager is Nancy Trujillo. And supervising senior production manager is Jessica Ellis. Managing producer is Heather Baloga. Development producer is Olivia Weber. Senior development editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Production services by Futuro Studios.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Executive producers for Futuro Studios are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Executive producers for Wondery are Russell Finch, George Lavender, Marshall Lewy, and Jim Sargent.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
She was living in Los Angeles at the time where she worked as an actor. She'd heard about the missing women just a few days before.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
The pain he was going through struck a chord. As a Brazilian living in the U.S., she couldn't help but think about her own parents back home.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
She passed the message on to Leticia's parents, then posted the recording of her call on TikTok.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
It wasn't just Instagram drama anymore. The story had gone mainstream. It was on network television. But the search hadn't just made an impression in Brazil. A few days later, the police got another call.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Kat was away on vacation in Connecticut. That part was true. And she was not happy.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
The police told her they get a sergeant to call her back. But Kat was not one to sit down and wait for her phone to ring. She took to a live video stream to air her frustrations. She said the reports were nothing but lies and pure envy. Soon, a friend messaged Silmara.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
But in reality, Kat wasn't so sure of herself. According to Desiree's book, Kat was having these visions about what might happen to all of them. She said she could see mysterious cars parked outside her house, watching her. Eventually, Kat called Desiree in a panic. She screamed at Desiree to get out of the house, pack a bag and leave lots of food out for the pets.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
She told Desiree to get to the airport. Like, immediately. In less than three hours, Desiree and Leticia were on the plane. They were on the run.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
There had been some calls about two Brazilian women reportedly living at this address. The young woman told the officers her name was Leticia. She assured them she was fine. No one was holding her against her will. One of the officers pulled out his phone and found the number for the owner of the house. Right away, Cat picked up the phone.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
By the time Desiree and Leticia left the Leander house, I was following the search as best as I could. So were thousands of other followers who were glued to their phones and computers. But information was limited. All we had were Kat's furious denials that anything was wrong.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
But thanks to Desiree's book and legal and police records, I have been able to reconstruct what seems to have happened with Kat and the missing women after they fled the house in Texas.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
When Desiree and Leticia got to Kat's hotel in Connecticut, she gave Desiree a massive hug and promised her everything would be okay. She told them that they were stronger now that they were together and they would never be apart again.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Kat booked her a room, ordered her some dinner, then she placed some amulets in the room for protection's sake and even took her precious dog to Desiree's room to keep her company. The next morning, Kat told Desiree they needed to go downtown to buy wigs and sunglasses. I mean, after all that press that they were getting in Brazil, Kat had grown paranoid. She was terrified the police in the U.S.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
were still suspicious, but not terrified enough to stop pressuring Desiree to do sex work. Kat's plan was to change Desiree's appearance so she could continue booking clients with a new look on the same old escort site. Meanwhile, Cat went all out to shut down the media frenzy. And there was one person she blamed most of all for causing it. Desiree's best friend, Patti.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
She was away on vacation, but she said Leticia was a friend who was doing some work for her. These reports were just people causing trouble on social media. The police officers looked closely at Leticia. They told her to take care, turned around and walked back to their car. Leticia closed the door as the cruiser pulled away.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
In the video, you can see Cat in the front seat of a car. She's smiling and saying very politely, Oh, Patty, how funny that you became an ex-friend in the blink of an eye. Cat pens the phone over to the back seat and says, Show your faces, girls. Say hello to that whore. The girls were Desiree and Leticia, looking very blonde and very smiley.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Cat also called Patty a piranha, like the flesh-eating fish. But in Brazilian Portuguese, that's one of the most misogynistic insults there is. I guess in English it's like calling someone a bitch, but way worse. Cat then doubled down on her outlandish claims that Patty was abusing her kids. You're gonna regret messing with me. I'm a quiet girl, but if you cross me, you're fucked. Listen to me.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
By now, Kat had moved everyone from the hotel to a remote house on a lake elsewhere in Connecticut. It was at the lake house that she live-streamed a long conversation with Zach.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
The video was 30 minutes long. Zach sat on a white chair wearing jeans and a beige Nike hoodie, holding a can of Red Bull in his right hand. You can see the lake through the window behind him, surrounded by colorful trees and a pole with an American flag.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Kat told him who she thought was truly to blame for their situation.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
Kat had long been uneasy about Zach's father. In fact, at one point, seemingly under the effects of ayahuasca, she threatened him on Instagram.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Closing In | 5
But now she believed it was Zach's family who had leaked her address in Texas and forced them to go on the run. She asked Zach what he thought about the allegations against her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
When influence turns into control, how far would you go to break the spell?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. For bonus content and ad-free episodes, listen on Wondery+. Get started with your free trial at wondery.com slash plus.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
And there was one person who knew the answer.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Torres, whose perfect life in the United States inspired hundreds of thousands of followers.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
You turned my life around. I was nothing without you. But who was hiding a secret?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
From Wondery, based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil, comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that captivated a nation.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Introducing Guru: Don't Cross Kat
A search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb. I'm calling to check on the two missing Brazilian girls. Maybe get some undercover crew there.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all six episodes of Guru ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
As a contractor for the NSA, Edward Snowden had access to a range of top-secret government programs. But as he learned more about these clandestine operations, he came to understand a devastating secret. The government was conducting mass surveillance on its own citizens. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, whistleblower Edward Snowden changes the national conversation about privacy on the Internet as he risks his own freedom and his family's well-being. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
Listen to all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
Leander Police Department. And Leander? Yeah. All right, yeah, let me go ahead and get this in and have somebody give you a call, okay? Okay.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
Lamont Jones is shattered when his cousin dies just weeks after entering prison. The official report says natural causes, but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. Wondery presents Death County PA, a chilling true story of corruption and cover-ups. Follow Death County PA on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
In 1976, a Georgia native, Navy veteran, and peanut farmer named Jimmy Carter won his bid for the presidency. What Carter didn't know then was that the next four years would be the most difficult he could ever imagine. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast, American History Tellers.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
We take you to the events, times, and people that shaped America and Americans, our values, our struggles, and our dreams. In our latest series, we explore Jimmy Carter's time in the White House, from his unexpected presidential victory as an outsider vowing to clean up Washington, to his remarkable diplomatic breakthroughs and legislative accomplishments on energy, education, and the environment.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
Inside Kat's House | 4
But Carter also faced crushing challenges as he worked to lead the country through energy shortages, sky-high inflation, and the Iran hostage crisis. Follow American History Tellers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Hey, Chico here. Just wanted to let you know that this episode has a short mention of sexual abuse and self-harm. So please take care while listening. It was May 2013, long before Patty or Desiree had ever heard the name Cat Taurus.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Two days later, the U.S. gossip site Page Six ran another story about DiCaprio. The headline read, Leo dines with model Tony Garn. Kat Torres rumors crumble. A source close to Leo was quoted. He met Kat once five months ago. They're not dating. Brutal. By the way, we did ask Leo DiCaprio for comment, but perhaps not surprisingly, we never got an answer.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Well, listen, I can't tell you for sure that Cat took the photos to the media, either by herself or through other channels. But come on, Cat would be doing precisely what she told Julia she would do. If everyone was out to exploit her, she was going to get in first. And sure enough, it didn't really matter that the story was denied by Leo's people. The story was already out there.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Cat would now be known forever as Leo DiCaprio's ex. In that same article with the Brazilian newspaper Extra, Cat revealed her next move. She was coming for Hollywood. This decision would take Cat into new circles and lead to a transformation no one saw coming.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
One of her in a silky black dress, another in a white swimsuit, looking seductively over her shoulder. The next day, the photos were all over the world, reaching the gossip pages as far as Australia, South Africa and the US. It looked like Kat's big break, a moment that was set to take her from a life of obscurity to a life filled with fame and glamour.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
It was 2016, three years after that photo. Coburn Bell, a tall, square-jawed guy in his late 20s, was living in LA, working at a wealth management firm, when a friend of his got in touch. The friend had met this great Brazilian girl at a retreat in upstate New York. Her name was Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
But for Kat, the last few years had been tough. She had been hustling hard since she moved to the US. She'd been on some billboards on Sunset Boulevard, had a cover photo on People magazine, the Spanish version. And she'd been in a video for a Prince Roy song that was featured in the movie Fast and Furious 7. But she didn't have much else to show for her years of work.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
She told Colburn she was done with the Hollywood hustle, especially the men.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
At least that was the impression she gave Coburn. But Kat wasn't going to completely reject the jet-set life. Around the time Kat and Colborne got married, Kat created an Instagram account. She posted videos. In a bikini, of course. But also footage of her twirling in front of a designer store on Rodeo Drive. Or posing at luxury hotel rooms. Or on the hood of a Ferrari.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
In one of her Instagram posts, she was in a fancy hot tub with a caption that read, American Dream. The reality, though, was different. She didn't own a Ferrari. She was living in a regular apartment, no major luxuries.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
But it didn't quite turn out that way, because Kat was about to take a more troubling path. It's a path I spent many months investigating, one that reveals the forces that shaped her and helps explain what was really going on in that house in Texas.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
She was creating a fantasy. The perfect life she had always wanted. But this time, it was on social media.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
And it worked because her newly created Instagram soon reached 300,000 followers. But around this time, there was something else that was pushing Kat in a new direction. something that happened in a luxurious house up in the Hollywood Hills. I had the perfect bachelor pad with the swimming pool that you see in the movies.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
The owner of the house asked us not to share his name, so we'll call him Jim, and his words are spoken by an actor. One day, a friend told him about Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
By tea, he meant ayahuasca, the psychoactive drink held sacred by some indigenous groups in the Amazon. Each weekend, Jim invited a small circle of friends around to try it for themselves.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Ayahuasca contains the psychedelic chemical DMT, which makes it illegal in the U.S.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
When Kat arrived, she immediately connected with the group. She became a regular, sometimes even singing during the ceremony. Jim says she wasn't particularly good, but he let her do it anyway. A friend of Colborne called Ryder came to one of those ceremonies with Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
At first, Ryder was skeptical. But as the group sang, he began to feel more and more comfortable.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Cap was never quite the same again. She became more spiritual, interested in the occult and all kinds of alternative ideas. Now she didn't just want to be an influencer. She wanted to be a guru. But to be a guru, at least a popular one, required followers. So she wrote a book. It was called The Voice, and she went on one of Brazil's most famous chat shows to talk about it.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
On set, Cat wore a sleeveless long flowy red dress with beige strappy sandals and a necklace with a heart charm. She looked like a combination of a supermodel and a Disney princess. The host Amaury Jr. was known to interview gurus and mystical types. He often had a little fun with his guests, teased them a bit, like he did with Cat when he said she must be reading his thoughts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
No, no. Could it be the ayahuasca you take? Amaury asked her. No, said Cat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Even though he started off teasing Cat, Amaury admitted to me there was something about the way she spoke that made her convincing. Kat was determined to rebrand herself as a guru. No publicity was bad publicity.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
She became interested in Brazilian gurus like John of God, another celebrity medium who was later accused of abusing many of his followers.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
And she was really inspired by celebrity life coaches like Tony Robbins. Even some politicians caught her attention.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Kat was becoming obsessed with gaining the same kind of influence as her idols. It was all she seemed to focus on.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
But as she worked night and day, Coburn began to notice changes.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Kat started saying that the voice had told her that he was having affairs with other women.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
A year into their marriage, Kat and Coburn were struggling to stay together.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Colburn says she became more and more invested in the messages coming from the voice in her head.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
It all came to a head in 2018. Kat moved out. Three years later, they were divorced. But she wouldn't be alone for long. The final stage of her transformation was about to take shape.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
From Wondery, I'm Chico Felitti, and this is Don't Cross Cat, episode three, The Voice. The Brazilian city of Belo Horizonte is not the kind of place that gets much attention from the gossip columns. It's a town north of Rio, surrounded by mountains. Its name literally translates to beautiful horizons. But for Julia, living there as an eight-year-old, life was mainly about two things.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
In December 2021, Kat posted a new picture to her social media. It showed her next to a handsome, all-American-looking guy with dirty blonde hair, his sleeves tied around his biceps. Both of them had big smiles on their faces. Zachary Menken was 20 years old, almost 10 years younger than Kat. They had met on Tinder a year prior and only went out a couple of times before they moved in together.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
It was a whirlwind romance. Kat soon moved to Texas with him, to the town of Leander, just outside Austin. They adopted a lizard, a ferret, and a beautiful albino she-wolf-looking dog that also fit perfectly in Kat's Instagram profile. I spoke to one of Zach's relatives, who asked to remain anonymous.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
They told me Zach's family was confused by this beautiful new girlfriend, who was 10 years older than him. What were they doing together? Whenever the family visited Zach at their new house in Leander, Kat often stayed in her room on the internet. She would be in there for hours on end. Zach's family even began to wonder if she was on OnlyFans, posting amateur porn videos.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
But in reality, Kat was selling her perfect life as a psychic and a coach. By now, Kat was a self-proclaimed witch. She claimed she could change reality with manifesting and magic. In this Instagram post, Kat told her followers she could help them find the perfect life, get rich, find happiness, not to mention a husband just like hers.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
She started lashing out at people on social media. One of the posts read, To the plants. You won't get a face like this even with plastic surgery. Not even by killing yourself will you be able to have a life like this. A life with this much sophistication and a husband like mine? I love seeing you bursting with envy. And when people called her out online, she became even more aggressive.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
She cursed people, told them they would get butt cancer. She hoped they got diarrhea and that their guts would fall out. But that didn't seem to put most of her followers off. By 2022, many had declared themselves willing to go to Texas to live with her. Thank you. . . . . . . and and and, g,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Julia's not her real name, by the way. She didn't want to ruffle any feathers and asked to remain anonymous, so her words are spoken by an actor. One day, she saw a boy playing in the street with a girl she didn't recognize.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Julia noticed the boy got scared with the small barking dog, but the pretty green-eyed girl didn't. She was more interested in what Julia was wearing.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Even though they lived in the same neighborhood, Julia and Cat went to different schools. Cat attended public school, whereas Julia went to a fancy private school. But they would meet up every afternoon to play together. What they loved most was to dance. And it wasn't just ballet. This band, El Cha, had a famous routine that they used to do on Brazilian TV.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
At an upscale nightclub in the south of France, flashing lights lit up glamorous partygoers and socialites. In the middle of it all, a photographer stood scanning the crowd. It was the week of the Cannes Film Festival, and the town was full of Hollywood film stars. A buzz of excitement spread through the club. The photographer glimpsed a familiar face across the dance floor.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
The dancers put a bottle on the ground and shook their booties lower and lower until they almost touched it. Yep, that was on afternoon television daily. And everyone just loved the bottle dance. Grandmas, moms, kids. Cat and Julia did it too, as eight and nine-year-olds. And I have to admit, little 13-year-old Chico did the bottle dance at parties.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Little Cat may have done the bottle dance as well, but for the most part, she was a quiet kid with very few friends.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
And when Julia visited Cat, she would notice how different things were there.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Julia remembers that when Kat's dad was sober, he could be very affectionate to his daughter. It was when he drank that things got bad.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
The drinking was a part of the reason Cat's family had to move so many times, and why they ended up in Belo Horizonte.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
After some time, they moved away, again, eventually returning to their hometown of Macaé, about 100 miles up the coast from Rio.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Every vacation, the first thing Julia did was ask her mom if they could try to call Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
The next trace of Cat Torres is in a short grainy video on YouTube from 2012. The sound is a bit screwed up, but you can just about hear her voice behind the soundtrack.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
It's a video entry for a beauty contest. It shows Cat all grown up in her early 20s. She's holding a plastic rose as the camera zooms in on her. Hi, my name's Cat Torres and blows a kiss at the camera.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Georgia, who only wants us to use her first name, met Kat in Milan. They shared an apartment together.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
It was a handsome man, with a goatee, wearing a newsboy hat pulled low. Leonardo DiCaprio had arrived. The photographer followed his movements, looking for a clearer view. As he watched, a stunning blonde woman in a sleek white low-cut top emerge out of the crowd. The woman edged closer behind Leo. She leaned in, as if to say something. Then she put her hand on his back.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
But it turned out Kat's modeling career wasn't doing so well. She just didn't have the right look for the catwalk.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
But still, Kat wasn't struggling. She seemed to be making decent money. It didn't make much sense to Georgia until the day Kat started talking about her past. Her life in Rio after she left her parents' home.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
She said the man had given her money and bought her everything she always wanted. She had 12 members of staff working for her at the house. But even so, she wasn't happy.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
While they lived in Italy, Georgia says that Kat appeared to be in touch with another older man.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Georgia has her own theory of what was going on. Kat's relationships with men had become transactional.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Back in Brazil, Julia still often wondered what had happened to her old friend, Kat. They had last seen each other when they were 11. All that time she spent looking in the phone book never worked. But one day in her 20s, Julia googled Kat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
And as they caught up, Cat confided something she'd never told Julia before. What she said was the reason she had left home. The reason she changed so much. Cat said it all began when her dad went out of town for work. Her parents left her with friends and family for long periods of time. She said it was during those times that she went through some deeply distressing experiences.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Julia was shocked to hear Kat's story, but Kat seemed to kind of brush it off.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
The photographer lowered the camera. He had gotten the shot. In October of that year, the photo splashed across the pages of Brazilian newspaper Extra. The article announced, the new lover of Hollywood star Leonardo DiCaprio, Cat Torres. Within hours, British tabloid The Daily Mail picked the story up, featuring more photos of Cat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Sometime after Kat and Giulia reconnected, that photo with Leo DiCaprio appeared in the press. And Georgia, Kat's old roommate in Italy, saw the story.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Voice | 3
Up until then, Georgia had kind of forgotten about Kat's stories. Kat had moved out of her apartment after only three months. But as much as Georgia was enjoying the juicy gossip, something didn't quite add up.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Fernanda.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I mean, there is a clear moment in which I decided it's a story worth investigating, which is when I realized that followers, young women were actually being taken to the U.S. to live with cat tourists. Because up to this point, she was a joke. I mean, she was a literal joke. She made memes out of her own face with dad jokes.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So it was kind of cringy, but I couldn't keep my eyes off of her Facebook page. And then she became this influencer who would show clothes and meditation and... the American Dream, which wasn't that much of my interest. We have many of those in Brazil. We have a whole niche of influencers who moved to the US and are somewhat successful there and are portraying that 24-7.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So that wasn't quite interesting. But when I realized that what people were talking about on Twitter and on social media in general had some truth to it, that she might have trafficked some of her followers to live with her and explore these young women, I did realize we had a big story there. And that's when I started investigating. Because it sounds like mumbo-jumbo, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
It sounds like internet conspiracy theory. The first time you hear it or you read about it, you're like, no, that's nonsense.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah. And you look at her post on Instagram and she's like entering Gucci and buying ugly monogrammed bags. And it's like, no, I mean, she's harmless. Until the point I got in touch with Leticia's family and realized these young women were actually missing, probably because they had been trafficked to the U.S. And then I was like, no, she got real. This is serious. This deserves deep investigation.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I do think it's a case that resonates a lot because we're dwelling too much on social media. Our virtual living is... I would say we're living too much on social media and we're spending too much time on social media and relying too much on avatars who are not real people and we're trusting people we should not. So I do think that there's the fact that.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Everyone's on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook, depending on your age and where you live, more than they should. So I do think people can connect to a story like this one in which someone you think you know or you think you have some closeness with turns out to do bad things.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I mean, I sort of am. Let's be honest here. I'm part of the problem as well. Is profiting dark? I do think so, because I do from where I stand now and from all the transformations I went through with this investigation, I do think that we're all deceiving someone on social media all the time, including me.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I'm not a criminal, but I am. For instance, this morning I posted an ad for a beauty line, for a cosmetic company, and they paid me good money to start using their products after 38 years of not doing skincare. So they paid me decent money, a lot of money to start doing skincare because I was the guy with the wrecked face. I'm the 38-year-old who looks 50.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And I made a lot of money by just using cosmetics, just doing skincare. fair. I mean, I'm not lying to my audience. I'm trying to be as honest as I can. But then again, I'm not showing the whole portrait of my life on social media. And people do have the perception that they're familiar with me and they're close with me and they know me and they know my family and they know my dogs.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
From Wondery, I'm Chico Felitti, and this is episode eight of Don't Cross Care with Fernanda Echavarri. The making of the show and the makings of a beauty queen.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So there's a little it's a game of deception. Everyone's playing a game of deception on social media. And I include myself in this. Of course, I'm not a criminal. I'm not trafficking people or anything. But I do think that social media is based... on deception.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
In the Brazilian version, I do narrate how I had a bad fight with my husband and it was Valentine's Day in Brazil and I felt impelled to post a picture with him because I knew that would bring me likes and that would bring me shares and people would react to it. So I wasn't talking to my husband when I posted a picture of the two of us kissing and I declared my love to him on social media.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And that was a lie. And I don't think It's only me. I think everyone, I think social media pushes us to show the good sides of our lives, even when there's no good side.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So I grew close to Kat's family, her closest friends as well. We've been in touch for over two years now, and her lawyers. And I say lawyers in plural because she changed a lot, her legal team. There was an ever-changing of lawyers. And every new lawyer would say she's interested in talking. She wants to talk to you, but she's not quite ready because she's not on the right medications.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
She's still depressed. She's not feeling like herself. She's unable to articulate what she needs to speak correctly. So we would wait and there would be many instances in which she would say, OK, next week she's ready to have you in jail. She's ready to meet with you and would have to order a court hearing. permission to enter jail, because that's how it works in Brazil.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
We have to actually ask the judge for an authorization to interview someone in the jail. And we've done that three or four times. But then when push came to shove, her defense would always say, no, she's not ready yet. We have to wait a little longer. We have to wait a little longer. So ultimately, we couldn't wait anymore. The series had to be launched, but she did exchange letters with me.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So I was able to reach her even though I wasn't able to record her voice.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah, I just sent it to you. Via WhatsApp, which is something Americans are not very familiar with, but we are. I know.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I hate the sound of my voice in English. I hate the tone of my voice. I sound dumb and I sound straight in English, which are two things I promise.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I mean, I've been told that. I'm not telling that about, I'm not shining the light upon myself, but I've been told you sound so straight in English, which is something I'm not.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
It's, as you said, it's a whole different personality and I'm trying to get acquainted with it and I'm really trying hard to like it, but it's so hard to like this new personality.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
That is a tricky question because it might sound controversial and it's hard to articulate it in English, but I do have a ton of respect for her. Because I don't think one might ignore where she came from. And she was miserable. I mean, she came from an abusive family. She was really poor. The odds were not in her favor. The world was playing against her.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So this is the picture of Kat Torres winning a beauty pageant.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And she managed to do... How can I put it? She was able to achieve so much with the very little life had given her. Life had given her beauty and she managed to do... a lot with it. She managed, she was able to fabricate an affair with Leonardo DiCaprio. She was able to be cast in a music video for the Fast and Furious franchise. She managed to make money in the U.S. and that's not easy.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
At the same time, of course, it's very reprehensible what she has done with that power she achieved. And I do think she needs to be held accountable for the crime she committed and I do think that story should be told as a Cautionary tale. I don't respect what she's done, but I respect her path to getting what she got.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
That's why I find her a fascinating character, a fascinating person.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yes, inside the penitentiary where she's an inmate.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
A flawed, fascinating person. Deeply flawed, fascinating person.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
It's been a pleasure. It's so much easier being on the other side of the table. Follow Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
If you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to us at wondery.com slash tips. From André, this is Don't Cross Cat. Don't Cross Cat is hosted and reported by me, Chico Felitti. Senior producer is Fernanda Echavarri, who we just heard. Producer is Andrés Caballero. Associate producers are Giovanna Romano-Sanchez and Otávio Bonfá. Theme song by Mariana Romano.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Mixing by Stephanie Lebon and JJ Kerubin. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Vialpondo. Project Manager is Nancy Trujillo. And Supervising Senior Production Manager is Jessica Ellis. Managing Producer is Heather Baloga. Development Producer is Olivia Weber. Senior Development Editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Production services by Futuro Studios.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Executive producers for Futuro Studios are Marlon Bishop and Maria Garcia. Executive producers for Wondery are Russell Finch, George Lavender, Marshall Lewy, and Jen Sargent.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I guess I should tell folks who you are, right? I guess so. You and I have spent a wild amount of time together. We recorded this series together in the studio. You were in the studio in the US and I was in the studio here in Brazil. Yes. You're my senior producer, the senior producer of Don't Cross Cat.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah, it's really peculiar, not common at all in Brazil, but they do hold a beauty pageant in this specific all-female jail in Brazil. It's something somewhat new. It's been around for six or seven years, but they do have a beauty pageant that will crown the most beautiful female inmate in Brazil. And Cat Torres was crowned the queen of the jail she's in currently.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah. So, I mean, of course she would win. She was a supermodel. She was on billboards on Sunset Boulevard. I mean, the odds were in her favor.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah. I think it's, A tad complicated because we do have to take in consideration she's been arrested for over a year now. So she had an initial time. She had an initial process of getting depressed and quitting her medication while she was in jail and going through a deep depression. She describes a deep depression.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
She describes losing over 40 pounds, experiencing hair loss and being extremely depressed. in jail, but that was a while ago. That was over a year ago. And apparently, what we can take from these pictures in the beauty pageant, at least she looks well. She looks healthy. She looks beautiful.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I do recall that the first place would take home a... How do you call them? Iron planks in English? The ones used to iron your hair?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
A flat iron, yeah, precisely. And a table fan as well, which are two very useful things.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
No, not yet. I mean, we can do, I would say we can do two more podcasts.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
What I've learned from her family and the people close to her is that she was really thrilled about it. It was the first time she had a glimpse of hope and she had a glimpse of excitement over anything that happened since she was arrested. But I do think we should also address the fact that now that she's getting more media attention, her life seems to be filled with meaning.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
now that she sought after, now that people have interest in her life again, that she felt abandoned in this first period in which she was arrested, that she felt left out. And now that the media include us in that as well, we cannot be hypocritical about it. We also got in touch with her, with her family. We wrote her letters.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So there was a certain level of attention she got, and she seems to be satisfied with the attention she's getting from the media.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
But I do think that it summarizes very well her life story. The way she was treated since a kid and the way she started treating other women when she gained power and she conquered influence. She always taught people that they should manage to get control over other people through your beauty and through your youth. So I do think it makes a lot of sense. It's her modus operandus.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
When she was about 23, she was living in Italy, but not really getting the modeling jobs she thought she would get once in Europe. So she headed back to Brazil to enter the Miss Sao Paulo beauty pageant. I spoke with Jean Polito, one of the people who worked for the beauty pageants. He helped run the pageants all over Brazil.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So he's pretty much saying there are two ways to enter a competition. The first one is the regular way. You enter by winning a local city pageant, then the state one, and then you get to represent your state in the national competition. The other way is to get nominated by someone and go straight to the state competition. And that's the way Kat did, since she didn't even live in Cairo.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
She did pretty good, according to Johnny Polito. The man who trained her remotely, at first by video calls, because she was in Europe, he describes her as a natural. So Jean says he had to teach her a couple of things, like walking like a beauty queen and to wave softly and very delicately, but... She, he says it wasn't all that much teaching. He says she was a natural.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Right. So I guess we'll be talking about the recent news and how it helped us understand where Ketur is this both mentally and physically, right?
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
And one of the good things besides being beautiful, being very pretty and very model-like, she already spoke some English, which was essential. And it's not very common in Brazil. If you want to go higher, if you want to go to Miss America or Miss Universe, Miss World, you have to be bilingual.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
Yeah, she does. And that's when she makes it to the quarterfinals. I guess she's among the 12 or 10 finalists of the contest in a contest that held close to 40 contestants.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
She got her face seen by millions of Brazilians. But unfortunately... Miss Ribeirão Preto! She didn't make it through the semifinals. She got the shot, but she showed zero emotion. So that was also something people noticed that many contestants, especially Brazilians, we were criers, we're big emotion showers. They do cry and they do show the stress. They do show sadness on stage, But she didn't.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
The other is doing it with excellence. And we're not good at it. I mean, we do praise emotions. I think we do take emotions really seriously. And that's not frowned upon in Brazil. That's seen as strength. That's why some people raise their eyebrows when she got the word that she had taken the job and she didn't react.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
He was shocked. Jean was really convinced that Kat was one of the favorites to win the crown. And he says, till this day, she was one of the best contestants he has worked with.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
She got on a plane and flew right back to Europe. Never took part in a beauty pageant again, I mean.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I'm so much more skeptical than I was 18 months ago.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I do think there's an aspect of comparing yourself strictly physically with someone, but there's also something that is, we do respect beauty queens in Brazilian culture, is very rooted. In the 1950s and 60s, we had Marta Rocha, who was our ultimate beauty queen. She was... Miss Universe, and she's praised until this day.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
So I do think it's a form of validation that is more respected than being a runway model, for instance, or a photographic model, for sure. So I do think there was something about status there as well. Had she made it, she would have gained recognition and fame with a little more respect than other professions in which women use their beauties or their bodies to work.
Guru: Don't Cross Kat
The Making of a Beauty Queen | 8
I would say that winning Miss Universe would be the equivalent of getting an Academy Award.
Morbid
Episode 658: Listener Tales 96: Buhtz
This was not an operation that was performed. This was attempted murder.
Morbid
Episode 662: The Exorcism of Roland Doe
Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect. For Patty, that friend was Desiree.
Morbid
Episode 662: The Exorcism of Roland Doe
Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer.
Morbid
Episode 662: The Exorcism of Roland Doe
A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Torres, but who was hiding a secret. From Wondery, based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil, comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat, about a search that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb.
Morbid
Episode 662: The Exorcism of Roland Doe
I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Morbid
Episode 662: The Exorcism of Roland Doe
You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. When a young woman named Desiree vanishes without a trace, the trail leads to Kat Torres, a charismatic influencer with millions of followers. But behind the glamorous posts and inspirational quotes, a sinister truth unravels. Binge all episodes of Don't Cross Kat early and ad-free on Wondery+.