Cassie
Appearances
20/20
Bad Rap: Party's Over
We began to see her more in the public as Diddy's girlfriend and less as the artist Cassie.
20/20
Bad Rap: Before and After
Singer Cassandra Ventura, whose stage name is Cassie, has sued music mogul Sean Diddy Combs.
20/20
Bad Rap: Before and After
Ventura accuses Combs of raping her in her own home after she tried to leave him, of punching, beating, kicking, and stomping on her, and of blowing up a man's car after Combs learned he was romantically interested in Ventura.
20/20
Bad Rap: Before and After
Cassie describing the music mogul as a vicious, cruel, and controlling man, saying she was trapped and held down by combs during what she's calling a cycle of abuse, spelling out incident after incident.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
So tell me more about the album. What are we going to expect? I'm still actually working on it, which is kind of crazy because I've been working on it for a while, but I'm so adamant about it. Second chances are so rare, and being able to do another album is big for me, so I'm really making sure that it's perfect, perfect as it can possibly be. So it's coming out early 2009.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
I started recording, and then I took a little break to shoot a movie, then went back to recording, and been recording and working on that album ever since.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
Oh, well, I've never been to the white party before. I don't know. I'm excited to see what's inside. I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm excited.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
It's an infectious song. It has a weird, creepy vibe, but at the same time, it's fun to sing along to, and it's just simple.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
I think the most real thing that I can say, and I actually have never said in an interview before, it has a lot to do with your presence at a label, you know, how well you're respected with the people that you're working with.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
If you're a kid on the internet and you're looking to find new music, you go on the internet, you go on MySpace. People find me.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
Well, I was really excited because Bad Boy itself is just a very legendary label. I mean, to be a part of that, where you think of Biggie and Faith Evans, Mary J. Blige, people like that. It's just exciting to be at such a legendary place.
20/20
Bad Rap: Me & U
And I remember telling people my entire life, I'm gonna be famous. Like, that's just how I was. I didn't even know what that meant. I didn't know what I was gonna do or what.
Bad Rap: The Case Against Diddy
Before and After
Singer Cassandra Ventura, whose stage name is Cassie, has sued music mogul Sean Diddy Combs.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah, I think... That's something we're still building our capacity for that in this union, but we definitely do have relationships with other trans union activists and organizers. Yeah. We're affiliated to Workers United, which is affiliated to SEIU. So obviously that's kind of the most direct and easiest way for us to get in touch with other trans folks that are in the labor movement.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Get support, get feedback, get ideas and share in turn what's been working for us. But it is a capacity we want to build out even further. Because we are going to need that solidarity between and among labor unions in order to form a coherent response. I mean, as you're saying, the response hasn't been working.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
The kind of problem solving we're seeing from a lot of politicians basically amounts to sidestepping the issue, pretending it doesn't exist. You know, maybe not throwing trans people under the bus explicitly by actively supporting our elimination from public life, but certainly not standing up and defending us.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And unions are one of the only ways that working people can come together in large groups and pool resources. for political activity. And we know there are a lot of problems with how many unions currently do that. But for those of us who are very committed to struggle for equality, that's not going to compromise and throw some group under the bus.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
we understand that we have to get involved and be part of labor in order to improve how labor does politics in this country. If we want people to stand up and defend trans rights and defend trans healthcare and defend our ability to exist in public life, then we have to be the ones to do it. We have to do it.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And getting involved in your union is one of the only accessible ways that trans people are going to be able to build that kind of political capacity and find allies.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
trans people are getting that opportunity to actually drive our own liberation. And there's just so few places in society where we get that. That's been one of the most exciting things about being part of this union for me. And yes, you should consider going to work at Starbucks and unionizing it.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And certainly, you know, to directly plug a little bit, if there are baristas in your audience, they absolutely should go to our website. I think there will be a link like in the description of the episode or something. Go visit our union's website, get in touch with an organizer and start organizing it. I know it can sound daunting in theory. What does it mean to start organizing my workplace?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
But there is a template. There's a plan. We've done this a bunch. We've done it at over 500 stores, at least 512 at this point nationwide, which is pretty incredible, especially to have done all that without yet having even secured our contract. So we have a good template for how to win. And if you just get in touch... then people will reach out to help you.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And that does include professional staff, but it also includes people like us who are workers that will be peer-to-peer, worker-to-worker organizers because that's what this campaign has been built on from the beginning is workers organizing each other. So yeah, I mean, there's really truly never been a time that's better than now and also never been more essential.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
It's never been more needed than now. So this is the time. if you're not a barista or you can't become a barista, then we still really need people to sign a solidarity pledge with our union and get involved that way as allies, as supporters. Community support is always critical to union struggles.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
We are bargaining our contract with Starbucks right now, and community support is a huge part of what's going to get us you know, the contract that does deliver the kind of protections and benefits we're looking for, that does set a precedent for what trans-inclusive union organizing and union bargaining can look like in this country.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
It's kind of a terrifying responsibility sometimes, but the thing about this union is because it is one of the exciting bright spots in American labor right now, I do think a lot of people are looking to us to figure out, well, what are they doing? What's working? What's going well? And I certainly think the results we get for trans workers in our union have some precedent setting importance.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So it is really critical, even if you're not in this union, even if you don't work at Starbucks, to support this struggle because it will have ripple effects. There will be ramifications for American labor and for the struggle for trans liberation as a consequence of how things turn out with us. So yeah, we could really use your support.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Yeah, you really can. And I mean, you know, at my store... I was the only trans person at my store. And despite being a transsexual communist, I was able to organize a successful election at a store that includes half of people being Trump voters.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
The idea that you have to hide or diminish yourself or that because you're trans or otherwise marginalized, that it's impossible for you to build that solidarity is with your coworkers and come together for your common issues, it's just not true. People understand their own economic liberation.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Even if they don't fully just yet, there's always an intuitive level that you understand you're getting screwed over. You can tell that the system is not set up fairly and it's not set up for you to succeed as a working person.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And with the right conversations, with the right information, with the right relationships and solidarity that you build with someone else, people can be brought to understand what the solution is and that the situation you currently live under with shareholders and capitalists stealing all of this value from you is unacceptable and that there is a way to fight to get back what you've earned with your labor.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
So for those of you who are listening, you don't have to hide who you are politically or personally to do that work, to bring people along. And in fact, if we do hide who we are, then we're not really going to be getting people all the way to where they need to go.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
You know, we're not going to build a movement of people committed to liberation by sidestepping issues and hiding pieces of who we are and saying that, oh, well, you know, trans liberation is not really important. That's not how we're going to build a durable coalition. I think this is a problem that politicians in our country keep making.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
It's a mistake they keep making of thinking they can ignore or downplay certain issues, tensions within their coalitions to keep those coalitions together. But when you ignore it, you don't address it. It just blows up later in the end anyway. Yeah, get involved. You really have nothing to lose and nothing, you know, except your chains not to be...
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
I mean, I just realized halfway through, I was like, well, I might as well finish the quote.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
When you fight for a collective bargaining agreement, a contract between union workers and their employer, you can fight for gender affirming care to be included in the health care that's provided and make sure that that health care is affordable and actually usable by the people working there and that their wages are adequate to cover out-of-pocket expenses, including travel expenses if you live in a state that's coming under threat.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Having non-discrimination language in a contract that covers gender identity is a really critical way to improve, not just for yourself, but then also we talk about these things like hiring discrimination, right? if you get that kind of language in a contract at a union job, that's going to help everyone who comes after you.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Because additionally, as a union, you have the mechanism of enforcement of a grievance and an arbitration procedure, right? That's sort of, you know, the critical, in addition to obviously all the kind of actions you can perform. And, you know, we can talk about what things might look like without the NLRA. But for now, we have grievance and arbitration procedures still.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And even in states where there are legal protections against employment discrimination for trans people like here in California, the bar to defending yourself legally is obviously a lot higher, including financially, than defending yourself through a grievance procedure at a union job, right?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
A grievance procedure at a union job is way more accessible to the average working person than hiring a lawyer and going through a legal system that is totally stacked against you and in favor of the wealthy. Having a union to defend you is
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
you know, with the collective resources of your union that you're a part of and having your shop steward or you be a shop steward and filing those grievances yourself, it's so much more accessible for regular workers to get enforcement when they are discriminated against. And that's obviously not only relevant for trans people, but it is certainly relevant for trans people.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
It's been a focus for us for a long time. Also in part because the initial, you know, our public, um, bargaining proposals that were released early on when we first formulated our demands included improvements to gender-affirming care at Starbucks. And part of that's because there were trans people involved in writing those initial demands, right?
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And, you know, Neha was involved nationally in the campaign and had the opportunity and the encouragement to start track, you know, we have to be part of it, I think, is on some level, you know, the most basic prerequisite for everything that came after is because trans people have been involved with this campaign from the beginning.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
We do have so much support and solidarity from our coworkers and from our fellow union comrades. regardless of whether they're cis or trans. And I think part of that is because we've really showed up and done the work. This again goes to that kind of like false narrative of there's like some kind of contention between workers' rights and trans rights.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
It's like trans people have been super motivated to get involved in this campaign and fight for the rights and benefits for every worker at Starbucks.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Other workers have seen that, seen the way we've been involved and dedicated, and that's given them the sympathy and solidarity to stand by us for an issue that affects us very directly and somewhat narrowly compared to a lot of the other things we're fighting for. So yeah, on some level, I think it comes down to unions are a place where trans people can
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
get involved in political life in a way that's hard to do in other parts of American political life. And you get to build that solidarity. And if you're there at the table, you have a chance to highlight the issues that are important to us. And if you're fighting for everyone else, they're going to want to fight for you too.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Lots of different struggles have been highlighted in our campaign. You know, we have really made racial justice a major priority as well. I mean, obviously, economic justice is at the core of any union struggle. invested in making sure all workers are included in this movement and their specific concerns are represented as well as our general shared concerns.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And as more and more things get taken away at the level of federal politics and state politics in many places, people will be looking for recourse. It's like, how do I get back the stability, the protections, the dignity, the power that I've lost? Particularly if, you know,
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
some of these folks are not super democratically accountable, people will be looking for how they can build power and how they can find security when the state is not providing it and when the state's actively undermining it, actually.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And unions are one of the truly critical irreplaceable answers for protecting yourself, for protecting the people you work with, for protecting your community, and for taking back some of the things that they're trying to do.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
take away from you, whether that's on-the-job protections, whether that's economic equality, whether that is your access to trans healthcare, whether that's protections from racism or misogynistic discrimination in your job and harassment, all of these things, if the state steps away, people should and will look to labor organizing as the answer instead.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
I think you see that in our union. We have a lot of worker leaders who are trans. It's a noticeable, obvious fact about our union is that trans people have really been deeply involved since day one at all levels of this union.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And I think part of that is because Starbucks has been associated as a place of economic stability and opportunity for trans healthcare for a community that has relatively few opportunities. I mean, if you're talking about 18% unemployment,
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
then you're talking about people who certainly are going to have difficulty getting employer provided health care, let alone employer provided health care that's going to include gender affirming care. Right. And so Starbucks has been held up as an opportunity for that for a lot of people. it's obviously drawn a lot of us to the company.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
Many of us started working there for that exact reason, and then have discovered in many cases that it's actually not so accessible. I can say in my case, It's definitely one reason I started working at Starbucks because I heard like, hey, if you want facial feminization surgery, go work at Starbucks. That was a community tip.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And then it turned out that I made so little money that I qualified for Medicaid. And in California, where I'm lucky enough to live, for now, Medicaid covers those things and is more affordable and accessible than the Starbucks healthcare actually was. So I ended up relying on Medicaid instead.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
And I think a lot of us have felt and seen that dissonance between coming to this company, looking for opportunity, looking for a place that is inclusive and will hire trans workers, it says, and ostensibly offers trans health care.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
But then finding out where those gaps are and realizing, like, actually, it's better for me to stay on Medicaid, which is easy to do because I make so little money at this job. It takes that shine off. And I think, you know, our economic vulnerability as a group is precisely what drove a lot of us to seek improvements here. It's related to our transness, sure.
Behind the Bastards
It Could Happen Here Weekly 167
But it's also like just fundamental working class issues. We need better wages. We need better health care. You know, that's something everyone benefits from and everyone can relate to.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I mean, I'm honestly heartbroken. I'm surprised at how heartbroken I am over Richard, but I can understand the sentiment.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Honestly, I would. I think I'd give it another try. Wow.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
No, he needs a better name. This is your opportunity to get it. Gertrude 2? I don't want any reminder of Gertrude. We have to call her something else.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Oh, he's thriving. He is thriving and surviving.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I was loving the French, but you know what? It's okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Yeah, his name is Derek. How did you guys meet? Online. And our first day, we went to a super upscale mall here in this area. We've got like a fancy mall because it's spread out into two parts.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
You could, like, shop. You can drink. Yes. And it's, like, in public. If it gets weird, you're not alone. Right.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
So honestly, I felt like we hit it off like right off the bat. There was chemistry there. Good. We walked around just like looking at stuff, and we ended up going to like a nursery, not like the baby container, but like the kind of plant.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I'm not like a super big plant person, but I really love looking at all the stuff they had. So like I'm into it. He was a little bit more into it than me. But I was really feeling it. Yeah. Because traditionally, like I haven't really been a plant person, but I had a lot of fun. Sweet. So he was knowledgeable. He obviously has plants. Yeah. And he was like, you know, I think we should do.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I think we should pick out a plant for each other.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
oh that's cute and it's kind of forward thinking like it's like he wants to see if you could keep it alive you know what i mean yeah i think it's like when you have some like pick an outfit for you because it's like okay what do you really think of me let's see what you pick out based off what you think my personality is that's why you make someone plant a tree that's more of a commitment yeah okay that's an interesting idea i like it what did you pick out for him
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
So the one I picked was super cute. It was, like, very whimsical. It was called a figgety fig.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Right, okay. So that's, like, literally what I'm getting to because... What he picked for me was a freaking snake plant.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I didn't really think about it that way, honestly. I was like, should I be offended or something? Oh, because of the snake title? Is that why? Yes. I was just, like, surprised. You know what I mean? Because, like, the one I picked for him was flirty, cute, or whatever.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I kind of just made a joke of it because it's like he's still buying me something, right? So I'm not going to be a jerk about it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Well, it was, like, so fun because we, after that, we went out for drinks because there was, like, a bar inside the mall. But we brought our plants with. And it was, like, super cute. And, like, everybody was, like, coming by and looking at them and saying, like, what's the story on this? Like, it was just funny. And the whole time I felt super comfortable. And, like, it even ended with a kiss.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Yeah, me too. Especially since we even named our plants.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
So his plant was Gertrude. I love it.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Okay. And my plan was Leif Erikson. Leif Erikson. That's so stupid.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
So I haven't seen him in five days. Five days.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I don't know. Mine died pretty quick, so I don't know. Have you heard from him at all? Yeah. So there's been texting, but there's been no initiation of a second date. Okay. Okay.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Sounds like CPR in the middle of the road.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Oh. I cannot believe this. I can't believe this. Me too. She's dead. Did you try at least to bring her back to life?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
Yeah, where is her body? I mean, my God.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
You were going to try and replace her?
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I mean, that's Gertrude, man. There's only one Gertrude. Yes.
Brooke and Jeffrey: Second Date Update
Second Date Update: Plant Me A Kiss
I am a good person. I thought she meant something to you.
Office Ladies
The Edge, Pt 2
Yes, I was walking around making eggs in my apartment alone going, but one man can do, another man can do. Just hyping myself up for the day.
Office Ladies
All About Pam Beesley
Ich glaube, so viele Fans, es ist, als Pam entdeckt, dass Michael ihre Mutter verheiratet hat. Oh, ja. Aber einfach das ganze Setup, dass man einen Freund hat, der nicht gut verheiratet ist, und du willst unterstützend sein, aber dann findest du heraus, in der schlimmsten Weise, dass du absolut nicht, du kannst nicht meine Mutter verheiratet haben.
Office Ladies
All About Pam Beesley
Yes, Jenna, I got you the calorie-free roses. Thank you so much, Cassie. I do love roses. And just to talk about books, I'm reading a book right now that Angela, I think you might really like. It's called The Backyard Bird Chronicles. And it's written by Amy Tan, who wrote Joy Luck Club.
Office Ladies
All About Pam Beesley
And it's just about her sitting in her backyard, learning all the birds and drawing them and just talking about their personalities.
Office Ladies
Webisode: Subtle Sexuality
This, my friends, is the powerful story of Subtle Sexuality, part-time band, full-time legend. Remember 2009? Music was headed in a wild new direction back then. Nobody thought the boundaries could be pushed any further.
Office Ladies
Second Drink: The Client with Melora Hardin
I didn't. I just guessed. Cassie. Which baseball player wears the biggest helmet? I don't know. The one with the biggest head.
Office Ladies
Bonus Christmas Episode with Brian Baumgartner
Oh my gosh, sorry. Is mousse munch just assorted popcorn flavor?
Office Ladies
Bonus Christmas Episode with Brian Baumgartner
What can it be? A basketball ornament. I love it.
Office Ladies
Bonus Christmas Episode with Brian Baumgartner
I truly love basketball, so you can't go wrong.
Office Ladies
Bonus Christmas Episode with Brian Baumgartner
Yeah, all the pictures look like creepy camping cameras.
Office Ladies
Bonus Christmas Episode with Brian Baumgartner
The reason why I got the gingerbread onesie is my friends every year, we do this thing called Rain Beer Games, which is beer pong. And we do it in the middle of the night and all dress up. And this year, my partner and I are going to be ginger gingerbread men. So we're going to wear red wigs with our onesies.
Office Ladies
Bonus Christmas Episode with Brian Baumgartner
I have a gingerbread onesie on that literally got delivered this morning.
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
And I work for a regional bank located out of Louisville.
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
That's amazing. Yeah. And so we knew at that point that we wanted to be debt free, but we weren't really doing anything to do that. It was just a dream. So I think it was January of 2021.
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
three we had kind of a financial conversation about okay what are our goals in the next two years what do we want to do two to three years and so knock it out yeah knock it out what's the house worth uh the house is probably around 275. and how much is in your old retirement mistakes
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
I think together we were just shy of $800,000. Nice. Okay.
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
Thank you, Steps Millionaires. Exactly. How old are y'all?
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
We didn't really know how to go about it. And so we looked at the baby steps, found we had already knocked out one, three, and four. Five wasn't applicable, but it's on the way. Nice.
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
And that was a big question that we had on the table was...
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
It's such a huge weight. I mean, going from even looking a couple years before we bought our home, renting, and just feeling like we were millionaires.
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
lighting our money on fire every single month or just flushing it down the toilet and now we're homeowners we own our home the bank doesn't own our home that's when we bought our home we were like the bank the bank bought our home yeah people are like your homeowners it's like not really the bank owns our home that's right we're homeowners and
The Ramsey Show
Skip the Scams, Build Real Wealth
That's still TBD. I mean, we just paid off the house and...
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Imagine spending months planting a garden. You choose the soil carefully. You water it each morning. You stay up late designing the perfect landscape, measuring the light, learning what grows best in the shade. But just when the first flower blooms, someone else picks them, signs their name at the bottom of the bouquet, and opens their own flower shop. Things aren't always what they seem.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Well, shortly after, her work caught the attention of Dr. Harry T. Holman, an assistant surgeon at the Leprosy Investigation Station of the U.S. Public Health Service in Hawaii. Leprosy, also known as Hansen's disease, is an infection caused by the bacterium Mycobacterium leprae affecting a patient's skin, limbs, nose, and upper respiratory tract.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
In the early stages, the disease manifests as skin lesions and nerve damage which can result in the loss of sensation in the affected areas. As it progresses, this nerve damage can lead to muscle weakness, deformities, and permanent disability.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Which you might recognize if you've listened to National Park After Dark because this is the second time Danielle is explaining this.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Hey, we'll see. Some of them are supposed to pop up the second year. So we'll see how I did this year, I guess. Well, we aren't talking about gardens today. But we are talking about an incredible woman named Alice Ball. She is absolutely incredible. And you may have never heard of her because her story was kept secret for quite some time.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
This actually reminds me a lot of how the U.S. dealt with tuberculosis as well. Yeah. There's so many stories of families and people being shipped off to these weird places. You know, we learned on National Park After Dark, Mammoth Caves was one of them. So they're Being sent to underground caves. I did an episode where they were sent off to this small island between rivers in West Virginia.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And they're put in different hospitals and there's a lot of shame around it and a lot of misunderstanding.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Yeah, we're reflecting back a lot today. For leprosy, there was actually a cure. It was Chalmugra oil. Extracted from seeds from the Hydona carpus tree, which was native to South and Southeast Asia, the oil contained active compounds that were believed to have antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory properties.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
The challenge was that the oil's consistency was thick and sticky, which made it extremely difficult to administer to patients. It did not properly absorb when applied to the skin and often caused stomach pain and vomiting when ingested and gave patients large, painful bumps under their skin when it was injected.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Alice dedicated herself tirelessly to her research, balancing her duties as a university instructor by day and conducting experiments on chalmugra oil late into the night. Despite only being 23 years old, she accomplished in less than a year what many seasoned chemists had struggled with for decades.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
She successfully isolated the active ingredient, meaning that the oil retained its medicinal properties while also being easily absorbable. This breakthrough was coined the quote ball method. So no more of those like giant painful lumps under their skin and injections. And imagine already being sick with leprosy and then. taking this medication that's making you vomit and just feel awful.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And she's mitigated all that. She's like, I'm going to take all that out. And you just have the good stuff now.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Alice Augusta Ball was a trailblazing scientist whose work profoundly reshaped medical treatments for leprosy in the early 20th century. With an unwavering drive and relentless curiosity, she discovered a method that transformed an age-old remedy into something far more effective, offering relief to those who had long suffered without hope.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Well, if you think the phrase that was coined from probably leprosy was like he was a leper to society, like he was an outcast almost like there's sayings that go around it, too.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Wow. So between 1918 and 1940, this was used. That's a really long time to have a viable solution that doesn't make you have to exile people to an island to die.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Truly, honestly. Well, unfortunately, Alice never got to see the impact of her work as she tragically passed away before she could publish her findings at age 24. Though her death certificate cites the cause of death as tuberculosis, many believe she actually succumbed to complications from chlorine gas exposure during a demonstration on how to put on a gas mask.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Are you? One small tweak. Quick question.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Today, her legacy continues to inspire those who seek innovation in the face of adversity.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
How infuriating is that? And he takes this method that he did not create, that they specifically outsourced Alice for this because they couldn't figure it out. He comes in, writes some papers about it because she has since passed away. And then it's like, oh, just a small little tweak to this, the Dean method named after moi. Yeah.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Yeah, he gives the energy of the person in the group that doesn't do anything in the group project for school, but then stands up and presents to the class.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
When you were assigned a group project, I feel like you worked really hard on it and you had other people in your group that waited for you to finish.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And specifically, you know, if this had happened and she was a white man. Mm-hmm.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
This scientist might have been, and we don't know because this isn't what happened, but he probably would have given him credit, you know, and would have cited him as his mentor or something along those lines, you know, but because she had passed away, she was a woman of color, and she was so young, I'm sure added to it too, that
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
He just felt like he could step all over her work and claim it as his own.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And no one would care and no one would bat an eye at it. Right. But he was wrong because Hallman stepped up for her. He was. And it came out even later in life of more of what she did.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
So, in the 1970s, Dr. Catherine Waddell Takara and other professors at the University of Hawaii discovered the records of Alice's research and played an instrumental role in ensuring her achievements were recognized. This sparked a broader movement and universities, medical historians, and the scientific community also began acknowledging Ball's work and correcting their own historical records.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Alice's influence continued to grow. In 2016, she was named as one of the most influential women in Hawaii history by Hawaii Magazine. And in 2017, the Alice Augusta Ball Endowed Scholarship was established to support students pursuing degrees in chemistry, biology, biochemistry, or microbiology.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Finally, the state of Hawaii declared February 28th as Alice Augusta Ball Day, and the University of Hawaii planted a chalmougra tree along with a sculpture of Alice on their grounds ensuring her legacy continues to inspire future generations.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And I love that last sentence that you just said, because I think it's so true that there's so much to learn from history and uncover from history. There's a lot of things, even I just think of things in our own lifetime that we maybe grew up learning as a child, but are changing. And the first one that comes to my mind, and I think probably to a lot of people's minds
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
is Columbus Day and Christopher Columbus because we grew up learning that Christopher Columbus discovered America and then that he sat down with all the indigenous people here and they had a great dinner and everything was happy and great. And now we've learned throughout years and finally uncovering the history that is being presented to us now is that that's not what happened.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
He actually committed horrific crimes against humanity, crimes against humanity and indigenous people. And now Columbus Day is Indigenous Peoples Day. And, you know, they've they're not celebrating him in the way that they used to.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
To understand why, it's important to consider the political and social climate of the time. The 1880s and 1890s were a deeply challenging time for Black Americans, shaped by racial segregation and economic hardship.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And there's so much more interesting stuff. So much more interesting than maybe what you've learned. And also, I think it's always important to remember that a lot of times history was written by the victor, not the person who was destroyed in the process. So when you're uncovering these different perspectives, history, history is really interesting because you can say history is fact.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
History is history. It doesn't change. And that's not true. the events don't change, but what we learn about them changes all the time. And so to keep your mind open, keep your ears open, and to read and research and see if there's other perspectives to stories that you already think you know, there might be something different there.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Probably not. Well, thank you everyone for hanging out with us this week. This was a really interesting episode that we've been wanting to touch on for a while. So thank you for tuning in to Watch Her Cook.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And a big shout out to Sick Bird Productions, who produces our podcast and helps bring these stories to life. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Watch Her Cook Podcast. Leave a review and subscribe for more inspiring stories. Just a reminder, empowered women empower the world. Now let's go cook. See you on Wednesday.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
The period from 1865 to 1877 was known as Reconstruction, a time when the federal government attempted to rebuild the South and integrate formerly enslaved people into society after the Civil War. During Reconstruction, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were put into place. This abolished slavery, granted equal protection by law for Black Americans, and granted Black men the right to vote.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
In addition, organizations like the Freedmen's Bureau, a U.S. government agency, helped provide education and economic support to Black communities. However, white Southerners resisted these changes.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Sometimes beautiful stories come with dark and dishonest twists, and often the stories we're told and believe are not the whole picture. But eventually, the truth does find its way to the surface. Even when it's buried or overlooked, it has a way of resurfacing, rising through the cracks. The work, the stories, the legacy, they can't stay hidden forever. In the end, truth will always prevail.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
The Jim Crow laws were named after Jump Jim Crow, a character created in the 1830s by white performer Thomas Dartmouth Rice dressed in blackface. So just keep that in mind for a second. Jim Crow was not a real person. And if you're familiar with all the Jim Crow laws that follow that, it's really interesting and also very concerning.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
This character, along with other blackface characters, aimed to perpetuate negative stereotypes about African Americans, painting them as lazy, ignorant, hypersexual, criminal, or cowardly.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Although strict Jim Crow laws were primarily enforced in the southern states, racial discrimination permeated the entire U.S., creating significant barriers for Black Americans. As we tell Alice's story, we will come to see how her achievements, despite these broader societal limitations, further highlight her remarkable resilience and determination.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Yes, Ellen Craft. Not only did she try to pass off as white, but she also tried to pass success and successfully did so as a man. And she escaped with her husband from the South all the way up to the North to Boston.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Yeah, it's trying to hide a part of who she is from the moment she's born.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
And I think it does really stem back to when you have a child, when you do everything you can to protect them and to know that the society that they're about to grow up in is completely pinned against them and the odds of them getting the education they deserve and becoming the successful person that they dream their child can and should be
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
is going to be thwarted at every opportunity that they get. So starting from day one, being like, I'm going to do something about this. And I imagine, I don't know offhand exactly what the backlash of that would be, but I imagine that there would be some type of repercussion for lying on her birth certificate.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
This is Watcher Cook. Hello everyone, I'm Cassie. And I'm Danielle. Welcome back to Watch Her Cook, a podcast dedicated to sharing the incredible lives of women who have taken their power back throughout history.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Yeah, I mean, and at this point, it sounds like, you know, slavery has been abolished and things are kind of on the upswing, but still a lot of really bad stuff is going on. So hopefully it wouldn't be something to that magnitude. But it is, I mean, it's scary for everyone, her parents involved.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
her it's a tense time it's a tense time and then she is also going to have her whole life her birth certificate's going to have a lie on it too so then she also has to kind of deal with that and she's going to see from day one that she's had to shy away from a part of herself which will get into her story but does not stop her from being incredible and accomplishing a lot
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
After graduating in 1912, Alice enrolled in the University of Washington. Over the course of four years, she earned a bachelor's degree in pharmaceutical chemistry along with a bachelor's degree in pharmacy. While studying, she co-authored a paper titled Benzoylations in Ether Solution with chemist William Denn, a professor at the University of Washington.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
It focused on a type of chemical reaction called benzoylation and appeared in the Journal of the American Chemical Society, one of the most prestigious chemistry publications of the time.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Using her expertise, Alice was able to extract cavalactomes, the main active components in kava, which contributes to its sedative and muscle-relaxing effects. This extraction was important because it allowed for a more precise understanding of kava's medicinal properties, provided a foundation for controlled research into its safety and efficacy, and helped legitimize its use in Western medicine.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
I'm trying to be. I'm really, I'm getting into my garden era. It's funny that you say that because right before we hopped on this recording... Al and I were both, my partner, Al and I were both on Pinterest looking at how to design gardens to make them really pretty this year. And he was going over all these plants.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Do I know your missing piece, though?
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
Oh, my God. I already know, actually.
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The Woman Who Found the Cure for the Untreatable
He's like, I'm going to build you a big awning and all the wood, nice fencing around it to make it fun. And he was finding these branch sculptures to put around and little birdhouses to throw around the garden. So I'm in my garden era for sure.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Sex. It's on our screens, in our ads, in the music we hear and the movies we watch. It's on the billboards we pass when we drive through the city, in the memes that go viral, in the small talk during happy hour, and in the deep conversations after midnight. It's everywhere. Yet for women, it can feel like our biggest secret.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
their part in in this you know right and a big part of what she was researching with this group of people and with these questions is there was this narrative that was portrayed publicly that women have a hard time having orgasms stop you know and what she was investigating in these questions is
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
okay, do women have a hard time having orgasms or do they have a hard time orgasming with their partner? Right. And where does that stem from? And she definitely, these questions were very, like, I think took a lot of people back and then made a lot of people think and then a lot of people responded.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And it's a really empowering, insightful episode.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
But then, of course, when she published her book, The Height Report, it just got so much attention because it was so... out of the norm for someone to talk about.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
So the Height Report gained widespread popularity and was reviewed with other classic works on sexuality at the time, including the Kinsey Report as well as the Masters and Johnson Reports. The book was split into eight chapters. Masturbation, Orgasm, Intercourse, Clitorial Stimulation, Lesbianism, Sexual Slavery, The Sexual Revolution, and Older Women.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
In a New York Times review of the book in 1976, Erica Jung wrote, quote, Women who read it will feel enormously reassured about their own sexuality, and if enough men read it, the quality of sex in America is bound to improve. However, the backlash surrounding her book became an uphill battle for Cher.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Men felt threatened with the studies gaining public attention, and Playboy released a story alluding to the report being, quote, anti-male and dubbing it the Hate Report. Isn't that so interesting?
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Right. And then the first thing that comes out is a publicized article that calls it annoying and criticizes even the thought of women coming forward and expressing their experiences and immediately denouncing them.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
I think that this is so interesting that this was happening in this time. And I just have to ask, why do you think men felt so threatened when improving pleasure for women would mean better sex and relationships for them as well? I mean, all of this would be beneficial for everyone.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
It comes down to just solely being threatened. And it's just a weird stance to have, though. Like, I get maybe for a second being like, okay, maybe it's a hard hit to realize that you're not doing everything that you should be in the bedroom. Okay, I can understand that. But then to...
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
not take this as, okay, if you're worried about women orgasming alone and getting rid of you, then why don't you just learn how to make her orgasm?
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
No one's ever had that thought. No one has ever thought that. No one has ever thought that. No man has ever thought that masturbation was better than sleeping with a partner.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Yeah. And it's just laying out how women are feeling and the experiences women are largely having as a whole. And it doesn't say, oh, men, you're doing something bad. It's saying, men, we have a lot to learn here. There's a lot of information that's not available to you and or has not in the past. So let's open up these conversations and talk about it versus,
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Not ever mentioning it and then we just stay in this stagnant spot where women are not satisfied and not feeling pleasure and are unhappy in their sexual lives while men just look the other way while it's happening.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Like this is for everyone's benefit. Everyone feels better when you are both having sex.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
yeah it's like hello entirely it's like you're miss you're so close but you're just really missing it it's right there well despite all this backlash that shara was getting she continued her research in 1981 she followed her report on female sexuality with the book the height report on male sexuality so she comes back and says hey okay i'll do it on men too
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And this woman and how she influenced it all. Right, so let's talk about Cher Height.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Like her first book, Cher invited men to anonymously describe their answers on a questionnaire, this time surveying over 7,000 men ages 13 to 97. Similar to women, many men said that they were, quote, felt trapped by sexual stereotypes, craved emotional intimacy, and found themselves unable to talk openly about their sexual angers, anxieties, and desires.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
However, Cher defended her methodology, arguing that she was offering an authentic look at people's lived experiences. Her research prioritized women's voices and was revolutionary in that it took the subjective nature of sexual experience seriously at a time when such topics were often dismissed and stigmatized.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Her belief was that it wasn't about numbers, but about human experience, and this was a way to make sense of those voices.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Right. And one thing that I took from the documentary that we watched that I thought was really interesting. So how I said before, men found themselves, they felt like they found themselves unable to talk openly about their sexual angers, anxieties, and desires. In the documentary, there is a moment where a man is being interviewed and he is very defensive and he says, none of this is true.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
None of my friends have ever said anything. To this extent ever. We've never talked about it. It's not true. It's like that is an example that you have 7,000 men are writing in that this is true. And I felt like it was really an example of how men not only are they not comfortable talking about it, but they're valid in their feelings that they're going to be shut down about it. Right.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And that they don't have the safe space to communicate, at least among their male friends. Right.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
I think the way that she conducted her data is really interesting. I think that it is very out of the norm. She also has a really broad range of like a sample size of people because she's talking to 14 – I think it was 14 to 78-year-olds, 8-year-olds. So obviously that's a huge spectrum. You are speaking to people – from all different backgrounds.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And in these reports, they did mention their backgrounds. People said their race, their education, and they did detail that. So she did know that going into her report, And I think that it's really interesting because I think a lot of surveys and data do go by numbers. And they say, check this box if you agree here. Check this if you think this. Have you ever felt this way? Yes or no?
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
But I think that the way that she was conducting her data really answered the questions that she was looking for.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
to answer she wasn't looking for numbers she was really on the emotional side of things so i don't think she could have gotten the results that she got if she did like multiple choice answers yes or no and influenced the questions for her she just said hey let me know this and people wrote from their own voices and she was able to collect this data that showed not only
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
a lot of different experiences, but shared experiences from people who were not speaking to each other, writing about the same thing. And I don't think she could have gotten that from a numbers standpoint of being like 5,000 people said yes to this question.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Cher was born Shirley Diana Gregory on November 2, 1942, in St. Joseph, Missouri. She was given the name Cher to distinguish her from her mother and adopted her stepfather's last name after her parents' divorce, coming to be known as Cher Height. Cher had a turbulent childhood. Her mother had her at 16 and her father was absent for most of her life.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
For centuries, conversations about women's sexuality have been filtered through what society has deemed as acceptable. We've been told to be desirable, but not too desiring. To please, but not to ask for pleasure. And to fit into expectations, but never to expect. But what happens when we rewrite the narrative, start owning our desires, our bodies, and our stories?
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
It's like you're just trying to scrutinize or to make it seem like what she did, she didn't do it the right way because she did it different. But she had a huge demographic of people from ages, from locations, from educations, from race.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
you know from their sexuality i mean she went across the board with this which i think was really interesting and also i think with her study you couldn't have done yes or no questions or strongly agree strongly disagree because i think even when she went into this she didn't know the question she was asking in some of this right because when she went into this it was like
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
tell me how are you experiencing sex? How are you experiencing masturbation? What is an orgasm like? How do you write that in a yes or no question? You can't. That's not what she's researching, right? She's really getting into the emotional, physical aspects She's getting into everything with it. So I think the reason why her study is so controversial is because she did it so differently.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
But I also think that's why it makes it so impactful and so important to talk about.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
She was primarily raised by her grandparents before they got divorced and eventually moved in with her aunt. Her earliest dream was to become a classical composer. Her second choice was to, quote, figure out how society got to where it is and why it is so irrational. See, I feel you.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Yeah, I think that that's a really valid point. It's putting women in a position of control and power that they have not seen in the past or has been spoken of in the past. And I think especially with a subject that has been deemed so taboo and something you don't talk about and is meant for to be strictly behind closed doors, to come out and have women
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
have really strong voices and opinions on this when women in general, especially in this time, were thought to not be. I mean, you can go back to the ad that Cher was in at the beginning where it labeled her as stupid and a typewriter was smarter than her. And that's very threatening to have that viewpoint of women and then have this other aspect where women are coming out with opinions and
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
and intelligence, and power. So it definitely changes that dynamic that's going on. Absolutely.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And this was just a fraction of it. These character attacks took an immense toll on her mental health. After being victim of years of relentless, vicious media attacks, public humiliation, and death threats, she no longer had the support of her American publishers and could no longer make a living in the U.S.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Instead, she lived in various places across Europe and dedicated her time to rebuilding her career with a European audience. During this time, she moved in with her friend Joanna Briscoe, who described her as, quote, In 1999, Cher and Friedrich divorced, and she eventually remarried her second husband, Paul Sullivan, in 2012.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
While I think that her story is really inspiring and brave because she came out and did this report as she did these studies, she never really relented on it. I think it's also really devastating, the response that she got and the fact that she had to leave the United States forever. start her life in Europe.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And she was treated so terribly in the United States that she gave up her citizenship to pursue other endeavors. And I think that that's really unfortunate, especially looking back now, it's something that we can reflect on and be like, no, she was right. She was onto something and she had every right to talk about this.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And she brought forward some really important conversations that needed to be had.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
She made a very good living off of her book as well.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Yeah. But I will say, I think that even though there's a lot of work to do in these discussions, she really opened some doors to have them. And even through her, the ridicule that she got, there was also a lot of support there too. I mean, there were thousands of women who wrote into her, her book was a bestseller, you know, And you can't quiet all those voices.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
So even though it didn't, she went through a lot. She really, really opened some doorways to these conversations. And maybe is why we can talk about this on a podcast so publicly now. So today, we are very grateful for the opportunity to highlight Cher's curiosity and resilience.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Her courage transformed the way society talks about female sexuality, pushing the boundaries of what was considered acceptable research and discussion. Today, The Height Report, a nationwide study of female sexuality, is ranked the 30th best-selling book of all time.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
As debates on gender roles and sexual freedom continue to evolve, Haidt's contributions stand as a powerful reminder that personal experiences and voices can ignite meaningful change. Thank you for tuning in to Watch Her Cook.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
In 1972, she appeared in an advertisement for Olivetti typewriters as a part of their well-known Olivetti Girls campaign. This iconic series, which ran throughout the late 60s and early 70s, featured stylish young women in office settings, typically cast as secretaries.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And a big shout out to Sick Bird Productions, who produces our podcast and helps bring these stories to life. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Watch Her Cook Podcast. Leave a review and subscribe for more inspiring stories. Just a reminder, empowered women empower the world. Now let's go cook.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
The ad's messaging carried a patronizing tone, reinforcing the gender stereotypes of the time, which presented women in subordinate roles. When Cher's ad was released, she was infuriated by the tagline, which read something to the effect of, quote, This ad marked a pivotal turning point in Cher's life.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
The experience ignited her life's purpose to challenge and dismantle society's narrow and limiting views of women. And just imagine agreeing to be in an ad campaign and being paid for it and not realizing that the ad campaign was going to paint you as stupid. I know.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Yeah, it was really jarring to see, especially in our time, you know, that has not aged well. And if that was put on television today, there would definitely not be a good response to it. And there wasn't a good response then either.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
They took her look seriously. Oh, yeah. That was okay. But as far as her intelligence goes, and a woman in this time getting a PhD was a really big deal because it wasn't as common as it is. Now it's normal. Now you see a woman with a PhD and you say, hell yeah. Back then, when a woman had a PhD, it was more thought of, okay, this is great to have for your role as a housewife.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
It's time to get out of our comfort zones. This is Watcher Cook. I'm Cassie. And I'm Danielle. Welcome back to Watcher Cook, a podcast dedicated to sharing the incredible lives of women who have taken their power back throughout history. I will just say this.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Founded in 1966, NOW is the largest feminist activist organization in the United States, co-founded by Betty Friedan and Polly Murray, a civil rights activist. During the second wave of feminism, consciousness-raising groups emerged as a driving force for change.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
These were small, grassroots discussion circles that provided women with a space to share their personal experiences on topics like sexism, reproductive rights, and domestic roles. At one of Cher's early meetings at NOW, a discussion about the female orgasm ignited an eye-opening conversation.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Women in consciousness raising groups had openly shared that they were dissatisfied with heterosexual sex, with many admitting they had never experienced an orgasm through intercourse. Shocked by the lack of research on female pleasure, Cher began independently exploring sexology, determined to bridge the knowledge gap.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
The Height Report compiled results of approximately 3,000 questionnaires that Height distributed to 100,000 women in the United States between the ages of 14 to 78. She traveled on her boyfriend's motorcycle across New York City to hand out the surveys to women, advertised them nationally in magazines, and included mailers for them in her first book. The report presented several key findings.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
One study revealed that the majority of women masturbated regularly, a topic that was rarely discussed in mainstream conversations. Another highlighted that women felt frustrated by their male partner's neglect of their sexual needs, often feeling like sex was designed for men.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And another revealed that 70% of women did not experience orgasms through intercourse alone, finding greater satisfaction through clitoral stimulation. This directly challenged the belief that penetration was the primary source of female pleasure.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Right. We're talking about a podcast, which was not the norm. I mean, a radio show, nothing like that would have happened. And it is more the norm. You know, you talk about this with your friends and hopefully your partner. But I will say, I think that it still widely is this taboo subject for a lot of people. And almost there's a lot of shame.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
I think that's behind pleasure and sex, especially for women. And I think that these conversations are really important to still be having. And I really love how she did this whole study. So as a background for me, I studied psychology and I have a bachelor's degree in psychology and And in school, I took two different classes that were some of my favorite classes that I took.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And one was the psychology of women. And the other one was the psychology of love and sex. And neither of them talked about the height report, which I think is really interesting now, looking back on my course. that that wasn't included. And I just think that it's very interesting because we talked about a lot of different studies throughout that talked about women and their relationships.
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The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
And we talked about, so for a psychology of women, it talked more about mental health and it talked more about different genders and the LGBTQ communities and things like that within the class. But we never, and then even in love and sex, it's,
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
It was very different of that we talked about it more in a health perspective of how people are uncomfortable having conversations that surround STDs and protection because of embarrassment and how there's like this whole shame around that. So I think that it was really interesting that the height report
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
that she got 3,000 people to answer questionnaires in a time that people were not open about talking about it. But for her and the way that she went about it, she was able to get this huge study of people, of women,
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
to come out and express some of their like deepest, maybe secret, most secret things about themselves to share it and to get this data that said that people are widely uncomfortable and women are unhappy in their sexual lives.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
Me now, yes, definitely. And I have filled out surveys similar just in college. But back then, I don't know, just because there was a lot of there is a lot of shame around it and people didn't talk about it. And I don't know. I don't know if I would have been comfortable. What about you? Do you think you would have filled it out?
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Told The Truth About Sex
You're just drawn to her story. I mean, episode four, starting off strong to say this is your favorite. But I agree. I really love her. And I'm really excited to talk about her because I just feel like, one, before this research, I didn't know about her. And two, I just think that this is a relevant conversation for today and in the past and for all women who are listening.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Over 2,500 years ago in ancient China, friends would come together and enjoy the beloved game of Weiqi, that is better known in the West as Go. The game is played on a grid, with two players each taking turns placing black or white stones onto the intersections.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
In China's patriarchal society, a woman in a position of power was extremely uncommon, especially for Cheng Yi Cao, who was suspected to have grown up lower class. Historians believe she was part of the Tonka people, an ethnic group who traditionally lived on boats, and therefore would have been exposed to piracy throughout her life.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
She knew that being a woman in command of tens of thousands of pirates would make her vulnerable. So she solidified her authority by appointing Zheng Bao, Cheng Yi's adopted son, whom she later married, as commander of the Red Flag Fleet, while she oversaw the entire confederation from above. Again, playing chess. Or playing go. Playing chess. Whatever we want to say. Whichever, yeah.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
That's a jump. Perforated ears to death. And perforated ears, like to be clear, like that's just like puncturing holes in your ear, right? Sounds like it.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
You better listen this time. Hopefully you can still hear after the perforation.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Don't steal. Yeah. You get 20%. Hope you're happy with that.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
I mean, if somebody offered me 20% for something, I'd say no, but I'm not a pirate.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
All right. Straight to the point. Love it. Don't mess with women.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Walk the plank, if you will. It was a real thing. Give me decapitation. I'd rather have decapitation than the shackling of limbs and being thrown overboard. That is terrifying. Just get to the point. Cut my head off.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Well, I mean, she obviously has this strict code of conduct, and she's clearly... she's not talking the talk, she's walking the walk. Because without example, I'm sure there would have been problems. But it seems like, at least up until now, everyone is respecting the rules, essentially. And I think in order to gain respect, you have to show that you mean it. So I'm sure she had to do
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
some not so great things to get people to be like, okay, I'm taking you seriously as a leader.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
For sure. And as part of her outlined rules, specifically your favorite one, the last one about women and respecting, you know, you can't abduct anybody from a village, bring them on board and, you know, sexually assault them. Like it has to be, there are certain rules you have to follow.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
And do you think she kind of came up with that and made sure that that was implemented because of her experience as a sex worker and maybe seeing that happen? Yeah.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Are you getting better though? Like is your game getting better even though you keep losing?
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
And imagine the influence. I mean, that's not just like she's in a command of a ship. She's in charge of this entire fleet that has thousands and thousands of people that are now listening to her. So that's a lot of change, at least in that one part of the sea. at that time in history. You know, that's a big, it's a big deal.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
But their influence did not stop at sea. On land, they built a sophisticated intelligence network, planted informants within local governments, and worked closely with criminal underworlds in coastal cities.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Despite their dominance, Cheng Yi Cao and Zhang Bao were careful not to alienate local communities, recognizing their dependence on these villagers for food, gunpowder, and ways to offload stolen goods. By 1809, Cheng Yi Cao was commanding one of the largest naval powers in the world, with an estimated 600 ships and 70,000 pirates.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
It's a good question. I think it may be a little combination of both. I think that she knew she was in a position of power, and she... was offering something that they couldn't really refuse. It was a good deal. I think she took advantage of her position of power, but tried to do it in a way that was fair, quote unquote fair, or at least beneficial, I should say.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
I don't know if fair is the right word, but there was benefit for them. And it too, she wasn't just completely wielding her power and obliterating them. And of course, she needed them as well. So it was kind of this give and take type of relationship that I think she definitely knew what she was doing with that.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Yeah. Like, I'm not sure if they had really any other choice. So. Yeah. Right.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Throughout 1808, the Confederation attacked the Qing Navy and destroyed all their defense vessels, and by 1809, were able to unleash attacks inland. By this point, Guangdong was in a state of panic and desperately needed support.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
As the Confederation was significantly impacting trade for the British and Portuguese, they had previously offered support to the dynasty to which the Emperor had proudly refused time and time again. However, the Qing Dynasty knew they had no choice but to join forces if they wanted to have a chance at regaining control.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Despite being outnumbered and surrounded, the pirates held their ground for weeks. After a sudden change in the wind, Cheng Yi Cao and Zheng Bao were able to break through the blockade, losing significantly less men as their rivals and none of their ships. But the Qing government was not ready to give up. With better focus, they returned with the help of Portuguese naval forces based in Macau.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
What followed became known as the Battle of the Tiger's Mouth, a series of attacks that blockaded key pirate harbors near the Pearl River Delta, a waterway that connected Guangdong to the South China Sea, which got its name for its narrow shape. This cut off supply lines and escape routes, allowing them to wear down the pirates.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
But despite being outgunned, Cheng Yi Cao's fleet continued to resist for months.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Following this, Zheng Bao was granted permission to join the imperial forces, while Cheng Yi Cao raised their children in Guangdong, along with the two others she had with Cheng Yi. It's alleged that she went on to open and operate a gambling house, an unsurprising turn of events for a leader who always knew how to play her cards right.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
I think she got away brilliantly. I mean, the negotiation, like, I was surprised they didn't execute her.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
the aim of the game is to surround your opponent's stone and capture them establishing control over areas of the board go isn't about a single moment of attack it's about the entire board and how the stones interact and evolve as the game progresses the stones create a complex web of relationships some areas are contested others are dominated and every move builds upon the last
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
And so can you please just stop and not kill us? And you can like kind of keep doing it.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
I mean, she got away. She got the best of both worlds because she got away with her life and she continued doing what she wanted to do and then started another business venture. She did great.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
If you're looking to dive a little deeper into Cheng Yi-Sau's story, we've dropped some sources for you in the description. Let us know what incredible women's stories you'd like to hear next.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Yeah, you're going to have to challenge him tonight. Test it out.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
I don't know the first thing about chess, so I can't relate.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
So let's do it. In the early 1800s, the South China Sea was home to one of the most powerful pirate empires the world has ever seen, led not by a king or an emperor, but by an intelligent and strategic woman.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
She was known as Cheng Yi Tsao, a commander who oversaw tens of thousands of pirates, united rival fleets under a strict code of conduct, and outwitted both the Chinese dynasty and the European colonial forces. Today she is remembered as one of the most feared and powerful pirates in all of history.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
In its early years, the Qing dynasty expanded both physically and culturally. Emperors like Kang Qi and Cheng Long led successful military campaigns, extended the empire's borders to their greatest reach, and supported the flourishing of literature, art, and science. But this period of growth also came with rigid social structures.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
A person's opportunities were largely defined by their gender, class, and ethnicity. Women were expected to follow the three obediences, which meant to obey their father before marriage, their husband after marriage, and their sons if widowed.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
For centuries, Chinese generals, scholars, and emperors studied Go's lessons. They understood that in Go, as in life, victory isn't about winning quickly, it's about winning wisely. It's a game of influence over force, patience over pride, and sacrifice for the sake of something larger. Generals used it to sharpen their minds, philosophers to teach balance, and emperors to refine their leadership.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Education for girls was rare unless they came from wealthy families, and a woman's value was often measured by her ability to bear a son to carry on the family name.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Very smart. Keeping ears open, eyes open at all times.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
And just like that's where lips are loose. It's like people feel relaxed and comfortable and share things that maybe is important information that she could benefit from. She's surrounded by men in power. Right. During this time, she met Cheng Yi, the leader of a large pirate confederation.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
It's unclear whether Cheng Yi asked for her hand in marriage or if it was a negotiation on Shi Yang's part, but the two tied the knot and grew both a personal and professional relationship. This is where she became known as Cheng Yi Cao, which translates to Cheng Yi's wife.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Yeah, I think she was smart and she realized that this is a power move and it would set her up for success in life. So I don't see that being far-fetched at all for it to be a negotiation. But I know you kind of made a comment with your eyes about the three obedience rules, laws type of thing. Yeah.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
it's, that's like a tall order to just always like, no matter who it is, you're always taking orders from the men in your life. Even if it's, it doesn't matter who, you know, it's like your, your father, your husband, and then your sons. Like it's never, it's never you.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Yeah. Well, it reminds me a little bit of – and it's not particularly in this context, but do you remember in Disney's Mulan, which is one of my favorite Disney movies of all time, and Mushu, her – and I'm talking about the OG Mulan, not the remake –
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Yeah, I did like it. I usually don't like the remakes. But anyways, going back to the original with Mushu and he's like, shame on you, shame on your family, shame on your dog or whatever. Like, you know how he's saying that. Like, that's a thing that, you know, like they're always so concerned about is bringing shame onto the family and for whatever reason. And that was a lot of the time.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
based on giving birth to a daughter, you know, because sons were so prized and they were obviously deemed more important.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
In a world where every move mattered and where the outcome was shaped by foresight and patience, one woman would rise to master the game of strategy, not on a board, but across the seas. This is Watch Her Cook.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
When the Qing came to power, they prioritized funding their land-based military, leaving their navy underdeveloped and the coastline poorly defended. In addition, by the early 1800s, China was struggling to support a rapidly growing population, which had nearly doubled since the early 1700s.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
For Guangdong, which is where Cheng Yi Sa was from, this led to widespread poverty as only a small portion of the land was livable compared to the rest of China, and resources were limited. As a result, piracy became a means to survive.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
To eliminate competition, Cheng Yi, who had built his reputation during the Taishan Rebellion, persuaded fleet leaders to join a confederation, agreeing to support each other in conflicts. By 1807, it is estimated that together, Cheng Yi and Cheng Yi Cao grew the force to around 40,000 to 60,000 pirates, operating 400 ships known as junks.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
It was divided into six fleets, each flying a different flag color and commanded by their own leader. Together, they ran the Red Flag Fleet, the largest in the confederation. While Cheng Yi led with authority and force, Cheng Yi Cao was the strategic mind behind their success.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
The Qing government struggled to challenge their powerful confederation, which operated more like a floating empire than a criminal gang.
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The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
And I'm Danielle. welcome back to watch her cook a podcast dedicated to sharing the incredible lives of women who have taken their power back throughout history i know that go is not chess but it reminds me of the story you just shared that it's so cute you and al play chess when you're what making dinner or eating dinner
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
Yeah, that's a ton of people. That's a huge number, but it's also such a large number to control so well.
Watch Her Cook
The Most Feared Pirate of the South China Sea
But yeah, part-time pirates don't give a crap. And also that's so funny, like part-time piracy. I just have always in my mind been like, okay, if you're a pirate, you're throwing your life away. And you're headed out to the high seas for the rest of your life, you know? And it's just like, no, actually, I do that at night. That's my nighttime job.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Isn't it ironic how a man... Dr. Doolittle can do it, but Simona can't?
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
But I would say that Simona Kozak, who we're talking about today, deserves the amount of attention that she's gotten, and we're really excited to talk about her.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
And it wasn't just bison. Simona had a real love for studying all kinds of animals. This was reflected in her home, which was far from typical. Over time, more and more animals started appearing by her house, and despite having the ability to come and go as they pleased, it seemed as if they felt safe and at home with Simona.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
She had a doe that would stop by the window to eat sugar, a black stork for which Simona created a nest for in a chest in her room, and a female lynx named Agatha who slept in bed with her. Okay. Still white vibes. Yeah, totally. I'm not living all of our dream lives. We're not jealous or anything.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
I'm just putting this whole persona of Simona together. She's on a motorcycle in the woods. She has a crow. People have nicknamed a terrorist. She has animals living in her cottage that she lives in in this beautiful forest. And the people who don't know her are being like, the witch, the witch in the woods. It's just goals.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
And Simona turned her home into this experimental laboratory. She thought of herself as a zoo psychologist. There was even a hospital and a waiting room in her home for sick animals. She was deeply invested in their well-being and was observing their behaviors along the way. For those who chose to stay, she took on the responsibility of caring for them when needed.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
She raised moose twins Pepsi and Cola like they were her own children and She let the doe give birth on her patio, took in lambs with her mother, and provided safe haven for many more.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Again, Snow White in real life. Out of the two of us, who do you think would be more likely to be living this life and having all these animals in their house?
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
I couldn't envision myself like this, but I envision it for you way more. It's like if we had to choose. Yeah. If we had to choose. Yeah. Both love it. But you would thrive here for sure.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
We're telling you we know and that today this is not the most conventional or maybe safe way to go about trying to protect wild animals. However, however, the work that she did was way more impactful and meaningful. I mean, in the research, we didn't find any harm that happened because of what she was doing. Which I think is important to know.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
But she did help protect a lot of species, which we'll get more and more into.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
However, despite their rocky start, Lex's background rooted in nature gave them common ground, and Simona grew fond of him when he welcomed a baby boar, who they called Zabka, which translates to froggy, into their home. The two of them took turns sleeping with Zabka, who could have grown to be up to 400 pounds over the next 17 years that they ended up spending with him.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
They both shared a deep love for the forest and its creatures, and that mutual respect grew into a romantic relationship. Which I don't know, if someone brought me home a baby boar, I don't know if I could resist being in a romantic relationship.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
It's like you know that that baby boar chose a favorite.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
So they stayed together after that incident, which I mean, that's awful. That's really traumatic to have happen in the middle of your relationship. Yeah, especially in general.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Before we dive deeper into her story, let's learn a little bit more about who Simona was. Simona was born in May of 1943 in Krakow, Poland, during World War II. Her father, Jerzy Kozak, was a famous painter and part of a family of artists known for capturing Polish landscapes and history. Her mother was his former mistress.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Right. It's like, I'm already not happy with you, and now this happened, and I imagine it was a very, very difficult time in their relationship. But outside of her life with LEC, Simona remained dedicated to her important work and research with the forest.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
As an ecologist, she understood the importance of not only understanding forest ecosystems, but relaying that knowledge to others in the form of advocacy. She, unlike others at the time, saw the forest as a dynamic, living system that should be left untouched and without any human interference.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
She argued that forests like Bialowieza were irreplaceable and shouldn't be disturbed for short-term profit.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
But she persevered, and her research became important in highlighting the forest's ecological value and helping to shift the cultural view of it. Others started to see it less as just a resource to be used and more as a precious natural sanctuary that needed to be protected.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Simona also played a crucial role in maintaining the Biała Viejas Forest status as a UNESCO World Heritage Site, which stands for the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. This title means the forest is a place that has been recognized for its cultural, historical, scientific, or natural significance.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
These sites are considered important for humanity as a whole and are granted special protection and recognition to ensure their preservation for future generations. Some of these UNESCO World Heritage sites that people may be a little bit more familiar with include the Great Wall of China, the Grand Canyon, Machu Picchu, and the Great Barrier Reef.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
And because of her contribution, that forest continues to be listed alongside them of equal importance.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
When Simona discovered the traps, she didn't hesitate to steal them and confront the researchers at the academy. When they asked her to return their research apparatuses, she flatly refused. This outraged the scientists who charged her with theft and brought her to court. However, Simona never wavered on her stance.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
During the proceedings, she pointed out that there were only 12 lowland lynx remaining in the area. Previously, they were in danger of being poached, but now they were in danger of being mortally wounded by the traps. She also stated that, quote, it's a disgrace for the world of science to have contributed to this.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Despite the family's artistic background, Simona didn't feel a deep connection to her father or his world of painting and high society. Rather than picking up the easel, Simona was far more interested in observing animals, studying ecosystems, and immersing herself in nature.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
It was recorded that her father longed for Simona to be a boy in order to, quote, carry on the Kozak family name and legacy, and was disappointed when she was born a girl. Therefore, her added divergence from the family's path was in some ways a source of tension.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Good for her. She shouldn't. Simona was also involved in the conceptualization and testing of the UOZ-1 repeller, a device that emits high-power radio frequency, which alerts animals to the presence of oncoming trains. She recognized that collisions with trains were a significant threat to the wildlife she studied and fought to protect.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
The repeller was designed to emit sounds or signals that would warn the animals, giving them a chance to avoid danger before a train would pass through.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
But I'm sure he would have appreciated this device because maybe it's around now. Maybe it's up there now and he won't get hit again.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Well, back to Simona. She did continue her work at the Mammal Research Institute of the Polish Academy of Sciences, where she focused on the study and conservation of the Białowieża forest and its wildlife. In 2000, she was awarded the Golden Cross of Merit, which is the highest civilian award in Poland.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
In 2003, she took on a leadership role at the Forest Research Institute's Department of Natural Forests, where she worked until her death in 2007 at the age of 63. The cause of her death was not publicly disclosed.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Unfortunately, several years after Simona's death, logging was once again active in the forest. In March 2016, the Polish Environment Minister decided to expand logging access within the Białowieża, despite its UNESCO protections. The Polish government attempted to justify this, pinning the reason on a bark beetle infestation.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
However, many suspected it wasn't beetles, but profit that motivated this decision.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
That statement couldn't be more true because if you look at what Simona did and then even the 140,000 people who signed a petition, which later resulted in it becoming banned, I mean, it just shows what people can truly do if they fight for something that... they love and care about.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
And Simona was able to do this because she stood up to political and economic systems that were determined to exploit these lands that she loved. And yet she never wavered in her commitment because she knew the forest was worth fighting for. and she made sure that the world knew that too.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Every step of her journey was against the odds, but she did it anyway, which I love to say because this is the theme of this podcast, Watch Her Cook. This is everything we're trying to embody here is what Simona says.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Yeah. And I think it's important to remember, I think Simona's story is a good reminder that not everyone has to be on board with your decisions or think that what you're doing is right.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
But if you know in your heart that this is what you're meant to do and this is the direction that you're meant to be in, don't let other people's opinion influence that and just follow your heart, follow your dreams and fight for things that you feel are important to you. And with that, I think that is all we have for today's episode. Thanks for tuning in to Watch Your Cook.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
And a big shout out to Sickbird Productions, who produces our podcasts and helps bring these stories to life. Don't forget to follow us on Watch Her Cook Podcast, leave a review, and subscribe for more inspiring stories. Just a reminder, empowered women empower the world. Now let's go cook.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Throughout her life, Simona struggled with school and forming relationships due to her unconventional interests, but she eventually earned a spot at Jockey Ohlone University in Krakow, where she completed her degree in zoology and animal behavior in 1970.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Her time at Jockey Ohlone University marked a turning point in Simona's life, as it was one of the first times she found herself surrounded by like-minded individuals. Studying during the 1960s, a decade of social change, Simona thrived in an environment fueled by student activism and environmental protests.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
The university became a hub for new ideas, and it was there that Simona began to focus on conservation and environmental activism, setting the stage for her lifelong commitment to protecting wildlife.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
You said it really well, though. We've got it nailed now. We do. It's Bialowieza Forest. Just, if you think it's hard, look up the spelling. Yeah. Well, not only was this forest amazing for her, but the job was a great fit for her, and so was this new home inside the forest.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
When Simona arrived, she found both solitude and a sense of belonging in a crumbling old hunter's lodge called Diedenste, which was being slowly swallowed by this encroaching forest. She described first laying eyes on the lodge and the wisent, which is a European bison that stood beside it, saying, quote, It was the first wisent that I saw in my life. I'm not counting the ones in the zoo.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
And this greeting right at the entry into the forest, this monumental wisent, the whiteness, the snow, the full moon, whitest of white everywhere, and the little hut hidden in the little clearing all covered with snow. an abandoned house that no one had lived in for two years. In the middle of the room, there were no floors. It was generally in ruins.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
And I looked at this house, all silvered by the moon as it was, and I said, it's finished. It's here or nowhere else.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Simona became known for traveling around on a motorcycle throughout the forest to get to and from Didinsta. Those who frequented the woods, park staff, ecologists, photographers, hunters, watched in awe as Simona zipped through muddy, cold trails on her bike, which was nicknamed the Komar bike, which translates to the mosquito.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
That part reminded me so much of me also, actually, because I have a motorcycle who I have nicknamed Betty. And it's a dual sport motorcycle, so I don't like riding on the road. Riding on the road kind of scares me a little bit just because of other cars and stuff. So I do have my motorcycle license now. My bike is street legal.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
However, I mostly just ride my bike to get to the woods and then I ride around in the woods.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Which happens more often than I would like to admit, but... I can pick my bike up now, which is very impressive because my bike is over 200 pounds. Yeah. And who needs to go to the gym when you have that? When I get my squats in every single time I dump my bike.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Oof. That's rough. I mean, that's hard, especially when you have found what you feel like is your calling and then you have someone being like, not, very obviously not approving. Yeah.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Right. I mean, that's a lot of effort. It's not a text. Like, that's a full letter.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
This was permanent. Right. Mailed it out, knew it was going to take days to get to me.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Hello, everyone. I'm Cassie. And I'm Danielle. Welcome back to Watcher Cook, a podcast dedicated to sharing the incredible lives of women who have taken their power back throughout history. Everything you just said for the opener sounds like this might be a Jane Goodall episode, but surprise, it is not a Jane Goodall episode.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
I would love to be. And I think if there is something to be said that's really brave about following your passions, even though your family maybe doesn't understand or approve. And I do think that there's a part of that. And probably in Simona's case too, where Her family wanted her to become painters or an artist. They were successful in that, right?
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
So I feel like there's a part of your family that is – it's not so much of what you're doing. It's the fear that it's not going to go anywhere and they want what's best for you in life and they want you to thrive and be happy and financially be okay. So I think that – even though it comes out really wrong. And maybe that's all it was for Simona.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Maybe her father really, really just hated her idea of being in conservation. But I think there's also this like, With any family, just we want our loved ones to thrive and be financially well off and know that they're taken care of after I'm gone kind of thing. So I think that that stems behind it. But I think that when you find your passion and your calling, you can't listen to those things.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
You just have to... You have to go for it. And that's what Simona did too. And that's what you did too. You stayed in your permanent position. And if you listen to National Park After Dark, you'll hear a lot more about that too. Because Daniel loves to dive into wolf conservation topics and a lot of stories. Maybe it'll make its way on here at some point too. I'll work it in.
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The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
We'll find a way to talk about wolves on this podcast.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Spoke To Animals
Going back into the story, not long after Simona settled in, she began fostering animals to study. She was known for communicating with the animals, a trait that drew curiosity and skepticism from the locals, earning her the nickname of animal psychologist. Some even called Simona a witch. Come on. All because she could speak to animals. Isn't that Dr. Doolittle?
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
In October 2008, the Pakistani military launched Operation Rahi Haq, also known as the First Battle of Swat, in hopes of regaining control, but the operation was unsuccessful. By January 2009, the ban was official. Girls were forbidden from attending school. Her father continued to publicly advocate for girls' right to education.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
This same year, BBC Urdu contacted him and asked permission for Malala to write an anonymous blog detailing the challenges girls were facing in Swat under the Taliban. Her father agreed, and she began writing under the pen name Gul Makai, which translates to Cornflower, a heroine from the Pakistani folktale.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
the commander they're like welcome you've passed the test just like i didn't know i was being tested but thankfully uh that's done and we can move on because that was frightening i mean she must have thought her life was over like okay i have no weapon i just tried to assassinate somebody that's it but it worked out it worked out and i just already this story just has me on my toes
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
And on that note, Hani's work on the resistance earned her a spot on the Nazis' most wanted list, and she became known as the girl with the red hair. Hani's first major act of resistance took place in November of 1943, when she joined fellow resistance members Jan Bonkamp and Jan Brasser and another RVV operative in an attempt to sabotage a power plant.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Yeah, actually, I do have an origin story. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, so I, to this day, I think elementary school is my favorite, which I think maybe a lot of people can relate to because it's probably the most fun years of schooling. Also, maybe some of the most awkward. But I realized pretty young that I was really interested in history.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Although the mission was unsuccessful, it served as a morale booster that people were fighting to protect. In June 1944, Hani and Bonekamp were selected to carry out an assassination in Zandam, targeting Dutch police officer Willem Ragu. Ragu wasn't just any collaborator, he was notorious for his brutality. He was actively hunting down Jewish people, rounding them up,
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
and handing them over to the Nazis. His role in arresting and deporting countless innocent civilians made him one of the most despised figures amongst the resistance. So, Hani and Jan set out to eliminate him.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And again, she's so young and she's writing this blog entry detailing what she's going through. And just to think, the night was filled with the noise of artillery fire. I woke up three times. A child in this, there's war going on outside her bedroom. She's detailing what's happening and she's putting it out there for the world.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
But we want to officially welcome you to Watch Her Cook, a podcast dedicated to sharing the incredible lives of women who have taken their power back throughout history.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And I think it's really beautiful, the pen name that she chose and the fact that she's doing it behind this anonymous door. So hopefully people won't know it's her because the repercussions for that are extremely dangerous. But even with that pen name, it's so dangerous. If anyone found out, you mentioned earlier what's happening to these people.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And she's still her father gives her permission and she's doing it knowing that she this is a life or death situation.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Grieving the death of Bonkamp, who was rumored to be a love interest of Hani's, and the capture of her parents, Hani went into hiding. Her parents were released after two months, and Hani returned to the resistance, this time with wire-rimmed glasses, jet-black hair, and a new ID.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
And they weren't done yet. Just two weeks later, on March 15, 1945, They targeted Ko Longendijk, a hairdresser who had been selling out people to the Nazis. Though Longendijk survived the attack, his betrayal did not go unpunished. In 1949, he was sentenced to life imprisonment.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
You don't have to worry about someone judging you because they know you're the one writing it.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
You can write whatever you want. Right. Well, soon after, in 2009, Malala's family made the brave decision to reveal her identity. Ooh. Malala and her father participated in a New York Times documentary, Class Dismissed in the Swat Valley, which captured poignant footage from the final day of school before the Taliban's ban went into effect.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
These actions, alongside countless others, cemented the legacy of Hanni, Truis, and Freddy as some of the most courageous and relentless members of the resistance.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
When her father was asked why he allowed Malala to take part in such a risky endeavor, his response was always, we needed to stand up. Her father also believed that because she was a young girl, Malala was not in immediate danger at the time.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
The persistence, the perseverance is unmatched. I mean, her parents almost lost their lives in a concentration camp and she still just turned around and said the work isn't done and I still have things to contribute. And it's dangerous for myself and those I love, but the mission is greater. And I have a purpose here and let's do it.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
In May 2009, 2 million people fled their homes. Children and women faced particular hardships as the Taliban targeted and destroyed schools, specifically those for girls. During the conflict, approximately 120 girls' schools and 80 other schools were demolished, 8,000 female educators abandoned their teaching positions, and 80,000 students were forced to withdraw from colleges and schools.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And I think it was fourth grade where we were given the book called Night by Eli Wiesel, which is a Holocaust book. And I remember reading that and being like, wow, this is history that I didn't know. And it was talking about landscapes and countries I didn't know existed outside of my little bubble. And that was my moment in school where I was like,
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
By this point, it is estimated that 400 schools had been damaged or destroyed since the Taliban had taken over.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Tragically, it was the red peeking through the roots of her hair that ultimately gave away her identity, and Anna was allegedly the one who turned her in. On April 17, 1945, just 18 days before the Netherlands was liberated, Hannie was led to be executed in the dunes near Overveen, a village close to Bloemendaal.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
When we spoke about how there was a ceasefire that was going on, it was almost this glimmer of hope, but then it was only if you agree to what we've been trying to enforce this entire time, which I understand why you would agree to a ceasefire because you're already have your people who are being hung publicly and you have all this detrimental stuff that's already happening.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Two Dutch Nazi officials, known as Matthijs Schmitz and Maarten Kuyper, took her to the execution site. Schmitz shot her in the head at close range. However, the bullet only grazed Hannie. It's alleged that she exclaimed, I shoot better or I'm a better shot. Kuyper then took out his submachine gun and fired a burst at Schuft, after which she immediately collapsed and died.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
It's like, please stop. But at the same time, That clearly sparked this whole new thing of, no, we're not doing a ceasefire. Yes, we're doing Sharia law and we're destroying hundreds of schools. So now not only do we not want women to go to school or girls to go to school, but we've actually destroyed every single building that they were able to go to. And we've removed every female teacher.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Once they received the news that Honey had been arrested, it hit them that the end was near. After everything they had been through, everything they fought for, to hear that was crushing.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
After the war, Truist became a strong advocate for preserving the memory of the resistance. She remained in activism and dedicated much of her life to educating younger generations about the sacrifices made during the war, leading speaker events for students. Freddie got married and lived a quieter life.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
The war had a lasting impact on her, but she spoke about her experiences when it was important to honor the memory of those who fought for freedom. Both sisters passed away at age 92, spending their final years in the Netherlands.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Well, I just think of my own life. I put myself in this position, right? And how has education helped me? And you start from this elementary school level, which you look at Malala, she's 11. What was I learning then? I was learning reading, writing skills. I was learning how to do math. I was learning things that I have used throughout my entire life. I was learning history, important history.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I was learning geography. I was learning about the world, you know, and- If I didn't have those things, there are so many things about my life that would be really difficult today, right? Getting a job would be hard if I wasn't literate. If I didn't know the histories within the world, it would be hard to understand politics today.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
You know, there are just so many things that education is important for throughout your daily life, throughout your career, family life.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
It's honorable how both sisters continued to educate future generations about their experiences. They truly left a lasting legacy.
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
It's pretty fitting that we did a World War II episode first, seeing as how that is such a big point of interest for you and such a period in time where you're so drawn to.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I really love history, and I need to learn more. And from then forward, other people would be reading Captain Underpants with all the other kids or Goodnight Moon, and I would be sitting there with some type of historical disaster book at nine years old reading it at night. So that was where I really discovered my love of history and just –
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Chef's Kiss couldn't have been better. What was like the biggest part of their story that really stuck out to you? I mean, it's hard because their whole story is crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And continue to risk their lives for. I think it's also really important. I mean, we're talking about Malala and the story took place 2009, 2012 timeframe. But these are fights that are still very much happening in other countries today and are still being implemented and. We have our education and we're able to have it here, but it's important to remember that not everywhere does.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And even wherever you are, you should fight for your education and the ability to learn whatever you want to learn. Right.
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
It sounds like she died like she lived. Brave, not afraid to speak up and speak against those who are doing wrong. And I think that's just it's a sad and tragic end. And that goes almost without saying, but it really speaks to who she was as a person in life. And I just think that's really cool.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Yes. It is. Because this gets a lot more dangerous for Malala. Yeah. In 2012, when Malala was just 15, a masked gunman boarded Malala's school bus and aggressively asked the question, who is Malala? All that could be heard next was the deafening crack of a gunshot as a man pulled the trigger pointed at Malala's head.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
But as far as the theme that kind of stuck out to me the most on this is just the perseverance of sticking with it with so much going on and so many reasons to quit and to throw in the towel and be like, this is too much. I'm just, you know, one person or I'm just like this part of this tiny group. And it can feel really overwhelming and it can feel like you're swimming against the current a bit.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
The bullet hit her left temple, grazing her left eye, skull, and brain, lacerating her facial nerve, shattering her eardrum, and breaking her jaw joints.
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
And these young women. who were a part of a larger resistance group, of course, but they just really stuck with it. And the small acts, like I can't get over that because sometimes it's hard. It's hard to stand up for what's right, even in big ways, but you can always do little things that show your stance and your values and what you stand for. And that just really shown throughout this story.
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
Yeah, so it's been cooking for a long time. And I guess the question that we should answer right off the bat is, why now? If we've been... Thinking of this for years and just have this running list going that we've been compiling over time, like why did we decide to launch Watch Her Cook now?
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
While Malala lay unconscious, her story was broadcast around the world. Protests were held in Pakistan, London, New York, and beyond, and the United Nations condemned the attack, calling for stronger protections of girls' education.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
She credits her survival to the people around the world who followed her story, saying, quote, "...without the thousands of letters and offers of support, prayers, and news stories, I might not have received medical care."
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
really big changes do you know what this story really reminded me of and it's a movie i haven't seen in years but it's very memorable the movie jojo rabbit i don't know if i've ever seen that cassie you would love that movie so it's about world war ii and scarlett johansson plays a mother to this little boy. And the little boy is the main character of the whole plot.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Yeah. And a militant group enters this bus and specifically asks your name. And you're sitting there with your friends. And not only are you attacked, but your friends watch you be attacked as well. So it's an example that's being set by this extremist group that you cannot voice your opinion and voice advocacy for women's education. But not only that...
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
But the mother is in it in a way that she's showing these quiet acts of resistance. She's handing out pamphlets. She is doing little things like these three women were doing. And she ended up, spoiler alert, she does pay the ultimate price.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
We have set this example and precedent for everyone surrounding you who also cares about you that this will happen to them if they try.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
price for that with her life but you would really really enjoy that is it a true story no it's like a historic fiction type of thing and there's i don't want to say it's like a lighter hearted version but kind of it's not making a joke out of anything it's really deep and serious but there are moments of levity in it and i think you should really put it on your list to watch because if you enjoy this story you're gonna enjoy jojo rabbit
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
All right. Well, we have a book rec with the memoir, which I think is aptly titled Not Then, Not Now, Not Ever. And a movie rec, Jojo Rabbit. Thanks for tuning in to Watch Her Cook. If you're looking to dive a little deeper, we've included some sources for you in the description. Let us know what incredible women's stories you'd like to hear next.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Yeah. And the fact that they had to they had to pretty much put together this covert mission and get her out of Pakistan and fly her to the UK for medical treatment because it was too dangerous there. Right. She can't go to a hospital and get treated and. have the Taliban outside who control everything and have access to the hospitals. That's such a dangerous situation. So she had to leave.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
People, more specifically, I loved books that surrounded people who are really important in history and who overcame really difficult situations. And that was what I was drawn to and have continued to be.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And her story then gained this international attention where people started rallying around her. You know, when the United Nations comes forward and specifically condemns this attack, when they've been doing these attacks to people for years at this point, but they specifically condemn hers, that's when you know that your voice has been heard, not just In Pakistan, but globally.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
The organization's approach is to empower changemakers at the local level by investing in what they call the Education Champion Network. These are groups of education advocates and activists who are challenging education policy and understand the unique barriers in the communities. The network provides tailored support to the champions to enhance their ability to lead change,
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Now is the best time to highlight stories of women throughout history and into the present to remind us all of the power of women and the differences that women can make and continue to make.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
amplifies the champion's cause through media and public engagements so that they can gain access to the decision makers, connects champions at national, regional, and global covenants, and provide investment to support the program in advocacy campaigns. The Malala Fund currently supports 10 countries around the world where girls face significant barriers to education.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
due to gender discrimination, societal factors, and environmental causes, and has invested $47 million towards education initiatives.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
On her 16th birthday, she delivered a monumental speech at the UN. A line that I found profound was, "...I am here to speak up for the right of education of every child. I want education for the sons and the daughters of all the extremists, especially the Taliban."
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And I thought that that was just such a moving statement to say because she says, I want education for the sons and daughters of all the extremists. So all of these parents who are part of the Taliban, she's like, their children need education too. And they need to know they can't be raised just around this.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
In 2014, at age 17, Malala became the youngest person to ever receive the Nobel Peace Prize, alongside Indian education advocate Kailash Sayarthi. Malala's message is simple yet powerful. One child, one teacher, one book, and one pen can change the world.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
And during a time where not just here, US-based, because that's where we live, but throughout the world, that there are a lot of women who are going through uncertain times and shaky times and times where the future is uncertain. And there's a lot of questions around what's next for women, what is in store for us.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I'd love to hear your origin story because I know that we have – similar interests in different ways.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Well, she's such a powerful presence and she has such a big voice that has been seen. And I love that you say that because I have read her book and actually – The reason why I read her book was because I was at Barnes & Noble one day, and I was walking around just looking for anything. I didn't have anything in particular, just browsing. And from across the way, I saw her book and her faces on it.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And it said, I am Malala. And I said, wait a minute, I know who she is. I don't know her story, but I want to. So I went over, went straight for the book, read the back of it and was like, yep, taking this. And then I read it and it was an incredible book. I really encourage everyone listening to read it. It's very eye-opening and she goes deep into her family history and
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
and just societal norms at the time. And then, of course, her advocacy after. It's just a really, really eye-opening book.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
For sure. She's such an advocate here. And then she even puts in the title, the girl who stood up for education and was shot by the Taliban. So it's like, I'm still here.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
It's like, I am Lala. This is who I am. Yes, it was the Taliban. Yes, I'm standing up to you still. You did almost the worst thing you could have done to me. And I'm still here. I'm still fighting. And you haven't won. And it's just such a powerful, powerful move from... She started as a girl.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
She's a woman now, and especially in a country that thinks of women as being so small and insignificant and not – especially in this time or the Taliban view it this way, to come out and be like, none of what you're saying is true. This narrative is not true, and I'm going to fight for women and their right to have education, to be bigger voices, and to have the lives that they deserve.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
And while we aren't here to necessarily answer that, we're here to give insight into stories of the past that will really bolster our present.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I mean, I have it on my bookshelf. I will happily give it to you.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And a big shout out to Sickbird Productions, who produces our podcasts and helps bring these stories to life. Don't forget to follow us on Watch Her Cook podcast. Leave a review and subscribe for more inspiring stories. Just a reminder, empowered women empower the world. Now let's go cook.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Yeah, so everything might not be super nice and shiny and have like the best bow at the end, but we wanted to share stories of all kinds from women throughout history, throughout the world, and just let the story speak for themselves, whether they're leading the charge or toiling away in the lab or or maybe doing some shady dealings. But we just want to showcase them for all that they are.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
When you drop a stone into water, it makes a tiny splash. But then the ripple begins. Waves radiate outwards, reaching places the stone never intended to touch. A spark ignites a wildfire. A snowflake triggers an avalanche. And one bold statement becomes a movement. That's the power of the ripple effect.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I can relate to that really, really well. And you're drawn to the mystery of not knowing but wanting. It feels like you have a very investigative mind of I like mysteries because I want to try and form my own opinions on what this could have been and create this narrative in your own head of where this could go. Yeah, for sure.
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
That's right. Today we are telling you all about Hanni Schuft and sisters Truis and Freddy Overstegen, who were resistance fighters during World War II in Nazi-occupied Netherlands.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I also like that you brought up Amelia Earhart because I feel like she would be a really good person to –
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
They were recruited as teenagers after the Nazi invasion in 1940 and went on to carry out bold missions like hiding Jewish people, guiding children to safe houses to escape deportation, smuggling weapons, and courageously luring German soldiers into secluded places to take them out. Their courage and cleverness were crucial in the fight against the Nazis.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
The Netherlands was occupied by the Nazis for about five years. During that time, the Dutch Resistance formed, groups of courageous people who opposed the regime and fought back in whatever way they could. It was one of the darkest times in history, and during it, our three women, Truis, Freddy, and Hannie became key figures in the Resistance.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
From a young age, Malala displayed an insatiable thirst for knowledge. While most girls in SWAT were expected to stay at home and learn domestic skills, Malala's world was filled with books, studies, and dreams of a future beyond societal limitations. Her father's influence was instrumental in shaping her belief in the power of education. Having grown up with five sisters...
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
When the Nazis invaded the Netherlands in 1940, that sense of justice was deeply ingrained in Truist and Freddie. They were still young. Truist was only 16 years old and Freddie was just two years her junior, but they were joining their mom in distributing anti-Nazi pamphlets. By 1941, the Harlem resistance group had taken notice.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
none of whom were given the opportunity to pursue an education, her father was determined to ensure that Malala would be, quote, a girl who is known by her own name.
Watch Her Cook
The Fearless Trio of WWII
A commander knocked on their door and asked if he could recruit the sisters to join the fight. It wasn't until later that they discovered their duties would include sabotaging bridges, blowing up railway lines that were vital to the Nazi supply chain, and even shooting Nazis, some of the most dangerous missions in the resistance.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
In the early 2000s, life in Swat took a turn for the worse. In 2002, Fazat Hayat, more commonly known by his pseudonym Mullah Fazlullah, became the leader of the Tariq-e-Nafaz-e-Sharia-e-Muhammadi, also referred to as TNSM. TNSM was an Islamic extreme militant group that swore an oath of loyalty to the Pakistani Taliban.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
The resistance relied on women to get close to high-value targets like this, leveraging their charm to lure them away from their positions. Once they were in secluded areas, other members of the resistance would wait for the right moment to ambush the SS officers and shoot them. They called these missions liquidations.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Fazlullah built a loyal support base in the following years by broadcasting sermons on an illegal FM radio channel, which became known as Radio Mullah. Using this platform, he spread his extremist ideology, advocating for the strict implementation of Sharia law, a legal system based on Islamic principles and teachings, which can have dangerous ramifications when interpreted in radical ways.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
He called for the elimination of what he deemed sources of sin, such as music, dancing, and modern entertainment. His followers enforced these beliefs by burning TVs, CDs, and other electronics, as well as attacking the shops that sold them.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Watch Her Cook, derived from the phrase Let Them Cook, is a podcast that celebrates women who've defied the odds, shattered expectations, disrupted the status quo, and changed the world. These women didn't just break barriers, they rewrote the script. And in an unexpected plot twist, became the masterminds, not just the victims, in tales of crime and intrigue.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Yeah. And even if you're not the one pulling the trigger, like we just kind of set the scene that sometimes there were other members of the resistance kind of laying in wait and that was their role. It's still – you have a hand in it. And that's heavy.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
You know, even if, you know, you think you're doing the right thing, and clearly they're part of this resistance group that is fighting evil, it's still taking a life or being a part of taking a life. And that must have been really, really difficult.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
In July 2007, a radical Islamic school was raided by the Pakistani military. This attack came to be known as the Siege of Lal Mashid, which translates to the Siege of the Red Mosque, leaving at least 102 people dead. Outraged, Fazlullah merged forces with feared militant leader Baitullah Musad, forming the Tariqi Taliban Pakistan, also known as the TTP.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I'm Cassie. And I'm Danielle. Welcome back to Watch Her Cook, a podcast dedicated to sharing the incredible lives of women who have taken their power back throughout history.
Watch Her Cook
The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
The group would soon become Pakistan's most dangerous terrorist organization, plunging the region into a new era of violence.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Yeah. That's especially pertinent to this story too, because they're going to go on to do a lot of other things, but let's just all keep in mind their ages. What were you doing at 16? You know? Yeah.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
The first place I ever went to with my driver's license was Dunkin' Donuts and not much has changed. So let's go back to our story.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Eleven years old, giving a speech like that on national television, too, where everyone's seeing you say that. Yeah. this most dangerous terrorist group that's ever existed is the person that you're speaking out against at 11 years old.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
The sisters used their bikes as a tool to carry out many of their resistance operations. It allowed them to deliver messages and execute sabotage missions, like carefully placing explosives on tracks or under bridges to weaken the Nazis' military operations. It also gave them the ability to smuggle people to safety, all while staying under the radar.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Yeah. He said, even though obviously his cousin disapproved of that moment, where he wrote her name down. He didn't care. It was, this is my daughter. I know that she's destined for more. I want her to have an education.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And he, even though he knew that his opinion was not the favorable one, he wasn't afraid to say it, which clearly is a huge influence for her to feel confident, to stand up on national television and say, how dare you take my education away? And without that support, I doubt that that would even be possible, especially in this time.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And I was just thinking back on another thing that you said in this or I said. that they considered a sin was dancing, music, CDs, entertainment. And to have such an extremist group that doesn't want you to enjoy the smaller things in life that make life enjoyable, that is such a, it's such a telling moment in whatever ideology this is, that this is really scary. This is controlling.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Although they were afraid, their sense of duty overweighted. Freddie once recalled how she, quote, and that the fear was louder than anything else.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
This is taking away the things in life that give you joy. There's nothing else to that, right? There's no other reason to take something like that away than to want to suppress a group of people.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Empowered women empower the world, and there is no better time than now to share the stories of the women of our past to inspire the women of our present. We'll be releasing new episodes every Wednesday. Welcome to Watch Her Cook.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Hani's fight against the regime started with small but impactful acts. This included sending packages of food and other necessities to Polish soldiers imprisoned by the Germans through a Red Cross program. She would also steal ID cards from non-Jewish people and distribute them to her Jewish friends to help disguise them.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
In 1941, when Jewish people were banned from walking in a local park, Hani made a simple yet profound choice to also refrain from walking through the park. It was quiet acts of defiance like this that planted the seed for her eventual role in the resistance movement.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
Yes. And she's going out saying these things knowing, I mean, she's living this, right? She's seen it. She knows what's happening in town and she knows what's happening with this militant group and still. Despite that, she's willing to stand up and say these things, which is incredible. And something I can't help but do when I hear this story is think of myself at 11 years old, right?
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And I was never doing something like this, right? Could I picture myself standing on national television to advocate for something so scary? No, because I've never been in that position. But it breaks my heart thinking of her at 11 years old needing to.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
This is when Hani joined the Rad Van Verzet, RVV for short, or the Council of Resistance, which was a national overall organization for Dutch resistance groups. One of her first assignments with the RVV was to eliminate an officer from the German secret police. Hany was terrified, but she took a deep breath and fired her gun, only for the sound of a click to echo. Nothing happened.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
No, it doesn't. It really doesn't. And just to be a girl, a small, a child in this position where you have to stand up for yourself in this way or the alternative of that is, of course... complying to this awful regime that's happening. I just put myself in her shoes so much as an 11-year-old girl at one point in my life to have to be living like this and to have to fight for education.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
It was at that moment the officer turned around and introduced himself as Franz Vanderweel, the commander of the resistance group. It was all a test, and Hany had passed it.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
I just have to say that we were talking a little bit about small acts of defiance and how they can snowball and create change and grow. And I think the first person that comes to mind for me with that is somebody we all grew up learning about, which was Rosa Parks. But recently I learned about Claudette Colvin. Do you know her story?
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
I think that's part of why this story is so important because we have to remember that Not everyone has these rights to education. And people do fight and people do lose their lives. And never give up your right to education because it's so, so important, which is what we're going to dive into in this story.
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The Girl Who Stood Up To The Taliban
And I think as everyone listens on, you're going to learn a lot about Malala and everything that she went through. And just how far she went and how far-reaching her voice was.
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The Fearless Trio of WWII
Yeah, it was less than a year before Rosa Parks. And I just think that it's those little small acts that in the moment might not seem huge, but clearly we're still learning about the impacts of those however many decades later.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Furthermore, the Boston Marathon is a men's division event. The rules of international sports and the Amateur Athletic Union do not allow women to run races more than the sanctioned one and a half miles. Sorry we could not be more of help. Sincerely, Will Cloney. Let's just take a moment.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
She will. Hold on a minute. Okay. I have so much to say about this.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Okay. First of all, the audacity. First things first. Secondly, women are not physiologically capable of running a marathon by whose standards? Who invented that?
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
At 1.75, uteruses are falling. Gone. They're out of you.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Yeah. Imagine. I mean, I can't even imagine the rage that Bobby felt because I feel it and it's not even my thing. Like it's not even my sport. This isn't something that I'm passionate about, let alone. It's just it just kind of triggers the don't tell me what to do type of thing.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
On the day of the marathon, with no bib number to show and dressed in a pair of Bermuda shorts and an oversized hoodie to disguise herself, Bobby hid by the bushes waiting for the race to begin. Once it did, she slipped discreetly into the crowd. Instead of being met with ridicule, men and women on the sidelines cheered her on.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
She completed the course in three hours and 21 minutes, faster than two-thirds of the other runners, paving the way for greater inclusion of women in long-distance running.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
The last time I talked about Greek mythology was I did a maid of honor speech for my best friend, Netea, last summer. And I talked about the myth of people being split in half and searching for their soulmate and yada, yada. So that was my last dance with Greek mythology. But I really loved this story. And it's one that I don't remember learning about in ninth grade mythology class.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Yeah. Watch Bobby cook. But I think the other thing that you just touched on is so important that even though official regulations or rules or standards are are telling of one opinion, it doesn't mean that everyone feels that way. And largely, most people probably disagree with that.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
And that is really shown in this particular scenario because, yeah, on paper, Will Clooney is saying no because this is the regulation. But in practice, when she's there and surrounded by real-life people,
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
overwhelmingly she's supported it like that shows such a disparity and disconnect between things that can be applied in a lot of different areas that I think is really important to keep in mind just in life in general that you know real people in real life circumstances like are often very different than certain policies in place right a very good point um
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
How does one get into competitive hammer throwing? Just a sad question. I've never heard of that before.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
And it's very patronizing. And also, yeah, your partner is supposed to be your number one supporter. Like they are supposed to be the loudest voice in the room in support of you, not as someone who's digging at you and being like, yeah, well, I can do it. And, you know, like it's just not a good look to have.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Race day arrived cold and wet, but the weather didn't bother Catherine. She applied her makeup and put on a pair of gold earrings. When she arrived at Hopkinton High, which is the starting point, their registration was ready and Arnie collected Catherine's number, along with the rest of the team. Catherine's bib read K. Switzer next to the number 261.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
She pinned the numbers to her sweatshirt and approached the starting line. Other runners and bystanders gave Catherine a double take. Catherine smiled back, her look saying, yes, I'm a girl. And much like Bobby, the response was overwhelmingly positive.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
I love that this is tied to lipstick because lipstick has such a storied history about resistance, especially red lipstick in particular. I don't know what color this was, but it's just a symbol and it's awesome.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
And I think the sentiment is something that so many people can relate to and just her standing up for what she wants. And I'm not a runner, but I can relate to her story because I feel like marriage will be my downfall. Just saying. That's the spirit.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
At mile four, they were followed by a press truck who were excited to see that a woman was running, slowing down to document the moment. However, not everyone shared this enthusiasm. After some shuffling and cursing, Catherine felt a forceful yank on her shoulder, flinging her back as a man shouted, quote, get the hell out of my race and give me back those numbers.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
The man was Jock Semple, the race manager, furious to see a woman running.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
I know exactly this image. Have you seen it? Yeah. I've seen it before I knew who her name was and the story behind it.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
I don't know. I think it's the former. I think everyone kind of knows because it wasn't like in a Boston specific thing that I saw. Right. You know.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Just this like skirmish going on all because of you simply wanting to run a race with hundreds of other people is really wild. Like what's happening? I'm just trying to run. The remainder of the race was a rollercoaster of emotions. The press followed Catherine asking her what she was trying to prove.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Catherine was filled with anxiety that Jock was seriously injured and that they could face legal consequences. The tension brewed, leading to an argument between Tom and Catherine. Tom blamed Catherine that he would now never qualify for the Olympic hammer throw team, breaking up with her mid-race, telling her she was, quote, too slow anyway.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Just the drama of that. You have to break up with her mid-race. Come on. While she's trying to accomplish her dreams.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Yeah. You were up. Now we're down. Now I'm just trying to complete this. Like, can we maybe pause and have this conversation after this 26 miles is done?
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Four hours and 20 minutes later, Catherine crossed the finish line, greeted not just by cheering spectators, but by a team of journalists irritated that they had to wait in the cold for a girl. However, it wasn't until that evening that Catherine realized the impact she had made when she saw photos from the assault plastered across newspapers. She was no longer just a woman who wanted to run.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Five years is kind of a long time, but a win is a win. It is a long time. A win is a win. A win is a win.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Yeah, but it's inconvenient for them, so. Along with many personal marathon-related accomplishments, Catherine used her voice to advocate for women. In 1977, she founded the Avon International Women's Running Circuit, a series of 400 women-only road races in 27 countries.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
More than 1 million women participated in these races globally, and its turnout was used to lobby the International Olympic Committee to include a women's marathon in the Olympic Games. Their work paid off in 1984 when the first women's Olympic marathon was held in Los Angeles, welcoming 49 women from 28 countries.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Finally, in 2015, Catherine founded 261 Fearless, a global nonprofit that uses running as a tool to empower and unite women, named after her bib number, 261. Through education and community-based running clubs, the organization helps women gain confidence, overcome fear, and take control of their lives.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Her name exists in the National Women's Hall of Fame, where she will always be remembered as a symbol for change, courage, and resilience in the world of women's sports. And I just want to make mention that we chose this story to cover today, particularly for a couple of reasons. When this releases, it'll be just after the Boston Marathon is completed.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
But as we record, that's right around the corner. It's about a week to go now. And not only are we fans of these two women because of what they stood for and what they went through and the advocacy that they put unintentionally at first started off doing, but later became such symbols.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
And not because we're fans of Boston, but because I personally have a friend that is a runner, a marathon runner, and she got into the Boston Marathon this year. So exciting. It's such a cool accomplishment, especially because this girl, okay, her name is Michelle. Hi, Michelle, if you're listening. She is not even 100 pounds. She's so tiny. She's so small, but she is so powerful.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
She ran the Leadville 100 last year. She does races. The Boston Marathon is just the first of five or six huge races that she's doing this year. Like she does hundred milers. She does 50, 60 Ks. Like she is racking them up. And to see her make the Boston Marathon is so cool, but it's made so much better knowing the history of women in the sport of running and the marathon in particular.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
She was abandoned at birth by her father who longed for a son, and raised by bears in the wilderness, growing up to become one of the most skilled hunters and fastest runners in the land. She was independent and untamed, and was warned that marriage would be her downfall.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
And it just makes it so much like more full circle watching her do that.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Well, I've done a couple 5Ks in the past and they were all for like fundraisers for shelters or animal rescues or things like that because I could bring my dogs at the same time. Those are fun. But they were never anything super competitive or whatever. But that's not the point. The point is like we have the opportunity and the option to sign up for races if we want to. Yeah.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Yeah. Everyone who is in that world, so much respect. So much. I mean, again, I'm just calling out Michi, but damn, I follow her on socials and every morning, four or five in the morning. And she posts her Strava things. She's like, another 15 miles down, great way to start the morning. I'm like, Okay. That's amazing. But anyway, cool.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
If you want to learn more about Catherine or Bobby's stories, we've included some sources for you in the description. Let us know what incredible women's stories you'd like to hear next.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Katherine was born on January 5, 1947, in Amberg, Germany, where her father was stationed as a US Army major. In 1949, her family returned to the US, where she grew up in Fairfax County, Virginia. She discovered sports as a teenager, playing field hockey and basketball, along with running a mile every day.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
After high school, Catherine attended Lynchburg College before transferring to Syracuse University in 1966, where she studied journalism and English literature, with aspirations of becoming a sports writer.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
In ancient Greek mythology lived the heroine Atalanta. Her name, meaning unswaying and enduring, echoes the very essence of who she was. Uninterested in the roles women were expected to play, Atalanta was unwavering in her identity and unafraid to be herself.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
For most of modern history, women were actively excluded from sports, not just socially, but medically and politically. In the 19th and early 20th centuries, particularly in the US, prevailing ideas about femininity and the female body painted sports as dangerous for women.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
One of the most persistent myths was that vigorous physical activity could damage a woman's reproductive organs, particularly the uterus. Some even believe that too much exertion could cause infertility or even for the uterus to fall out, making women unfit for childbirth. These beliefs were used to justify bans or limitations on women's participation in everything from running to cycling.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
That is just the most wild concept to me. Imagine if running made your uterus fall out. It's like, sirs, because I know they're sirs thinking this. How do you think we got to this point in evolutionary history? If running caused the uterus to fall out or to become damaged or to...
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Determined to preserve her freedom, she vowed only to marry a man who could beat her in a race, knowing full well that no one could. Suitors lined up for the challenge, but all were defeated, losing their lives in the process.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Yeah. They're like, we don't know what's going on with you under your skirt, but you can have a thousand. And then asked if it was enough. Yeah. For what? A week or something that it was. I don't know. We should look into that more because we talk about it a lot.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
A significant shift took place with the passage of Title IX in 1972, a U.S. legislation that prohibited sex-based discrimination in educational programs or activities that received federal funding. Prior to Title IX, fewer than 32,000 women participated in college sports, making up less than 16% of all college athletes.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
It wasn't until Hipponomes, with the help of the goddess Aphrodite and a handful of golden apples, finally distracted and outran her that she was reluctantly claimed as a wife. But what made Antolanta timeless isn't how her story ends, it's what she stood for. Her myth is less about love and loss and more about agency, strength, and the right to choose your own path.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
By 2020, that number was seven times larger, with women now representing 44% of all NCAA athletes, which stands for the National Collegiate Athletic Association. Similarly, in 1972, only 7% of girls were involved in high school sports. By 2019, girls accounted for 43% of all high school athletes. But the fight is far from over.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Today, female athletes, especially women of color, still face inequities in access, funding, media representation, and safety. The progress is undeniable, but so too is the work still ahead.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Yeah, definitely. And it's kind of this divide, you know, even people who rebuked that idea that physical activity could be harmful for women and were kind of on the fence, the side of the argument or the fence of, no, there are benefits, but then there's still a stipulation of they have to be feminine activities. And it's like, who came up with that? And what does that look like?
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
You can do this, but... There was always a but. And to see once that but was removed through Title IX, just that jump in statistics clearly shows the interest and willingness and eagerness. of women to participate in sports and it's like that barrier was just once it was taken down at least partially the influx of women who are just like totally stoked to be involved
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
I had no idea you did dance team. I agree with everything you just said, but I'm kind of hung up. Surprise. Four years in, or more, still learning more about you.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
I've never seen you dance other than like at a live music show at a bar or something.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Okay. That is kind of, I don't know, it's just like the formal, the formality of a dance team. I did not know you were on. Yeah. And we just talked about, I think it was last week on National Park After Dark, we talked about a little bit of my sport or my sports career, my soccer years. Yeah. Yeah. You were a sports girl for a while too. Yay, sports. I love them. Okay.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Let's get back to Catherine though, because this story gives me a lot of love for women in sports, even though I'm not somebody who turns on the TV and is watching any sort of sports on my own free time. It's like, let's just hone in on why this story in particular is so important.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
She was a heroine who embraced her non-traditional gifts and used them without apology. Her story lives on in every woman who dares to run her own race. A reminder that being true to yourself is the greatest victory of all. This is Watch Her Cook.
Watch Her Cook
The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Catherine wasn't officially allowed to join the men's cross-country team, but she was granted permission to train alongside them. That's where she met Arnie Briggs, the 50-year-old university mailman and volunteer team manager. Arnie had run for the men's team for 25 years, and at the time they met, had competed in 15 Boston Marathons.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
In a recent article, an ex-CRQs athlete said Arnie, quote, was the running community, known as a beloved role model and coach to many students.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Two weeks before the marathon, the two set out to run the full 26-mile distance. By the final stretch, Catherine still had energy and suggested adding on another five miles for good measure. Arnie couldn't keep up, and by the end, he passed out cold. The next morning, he knocked on Catherine's door and told her it was time. But in order for her to run, she needed to officially register.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
Together, they read through the rulebook and entry form. There was no mention at all of gender, so Catherine wrote down her AAU number, paid the $3 entry fee, and signed the form the same way she always had, KV Switzer.
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The Woman Who Changed The Boston Marathon
In 1964, her father took her to her first marathon and she fell in love with it. The following year, Bobby wrote to the Boston Athletic Association requesting an official entry for the 1966 race. But instead of receiving her race number in the mail, she opened up a rejection letter from the race director, Will Cloney. The letter read, quote,
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Welcome to Watch Her Cook, a podcast about women proving they belong in whatever role they want to be in. From inventors and activists to outlaws and criminal masterminds, we're diving into the stories of women who defied expectations, sometimes in groundbreaking ways, sometimes in chilling ones.