Cameron Hanes

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

He's... Yeah, he's a machine right now. You know, it's weird because I get credit for my kids, you know, and they're like, oh, you must have done such a good job. I didn't. I mean, I pushed those boys way too hard. I mean, I was just, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was young. I was in my 20s. So I didn't know how to be a dad. My dad was never around.

He's... Yeah, he's a machine right now. You know, it's weird because I get credit for my kids, you know, and they're like, oh, you must have done such a good job. I didn't. I mean, I pushed those boys way too hard. I mean, I was just, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was young. I was in my 20s. So I didn't know how to be a dad. My dad was never around.

I hated my stepdad, so I knew I definitely didn't want to be like him, but I didn't know what a dad was supposed to be. And I'm like, well, okay, I'm just going to prepare these kids. I know how life is. I know life will fucking kick you in the nuts. So they're going to be ready for anything. Life is competition. They're going to be ready to compete.

I hated my stepdad, so I knew I definitely didn't want to be like him, but I didn't know what a dad was supposed to be. And I'm like, well, okay, I'm just going to prepare these kids. I know how life is. I know life will fucking kick you in the nuts. So they're going to be ready for anything. Life is competition. They're going to be ready to compete.

So I pushed them really hard, and it was not great all the time. How so?

So I pushed them really hard, and it was not great all the time. How so?

Um, you know, it was just always a battle. It's just like, you know, it's, we're running every day. You guys got home from school. Okay. Get your stuff on. We're going to go do Pisgah. No kid wants to go run a mountain. And I'm like, no, this is because the way I thought it thought it of, of it was I had a terrible childhood, but it made me tough. So I'm like, you guys have everything.

Um, you know, it was just always a battle. It's just like, you know, it's, we're running every day. You guys got home from school. Okay. Get your stuff on. We're going to go do Pisgah. No kid wants to go run a mountain. And I'm like, no, this is because the way I thought it thought it of, of it was I had a terrible childhood, but it made me tough. So I'm like, you guys have everything.

You have everything I ever wanted. Your dad's around. Your mom is here. She loves you. You have every shoe you want, every basketball camp you want to go to, you go to. I said, so the way this is going, you're going to grow up to be a couple of big pussies. we're going to make you tough. So I would just make them do hard things.

You have everything I ever wanted. Your dad's around. Your mom is here. She loves you. You have every shoe you want, every basketball camp you want to go to, you go to. I said, so the way this is going, you're going to grow up to be a couple of big pussies. we're going to make you tough. So I would just make them do hard things.

And, and, uh, I made it, they both did half marathons when they were seven and eight years old. True. It just put up a picture. He looks like he's this tall. He was tiny at eight years, eight years old, but he ran a one 54 half like this tall, which is eight something minute miles. And, um,

And, and, uh, I made it, they both did half marathons when they were seven and eight years old. True. It just put up a picture. He looks like he's this tall. He was tiny at eight years, eight years old, but he ran a one 54 half like this tall, which is eight something minute miles. And, um,

All that to say that, yeah, I had the kids do really hard things for many years to prepare them for what I said was life's challenges. And it made it, you know, if I was, it reminded me, did you ever see the movie Tree of Life?

All that to say that, yeah, I had the kids do really hard things for many years to prepare them for what I said was life's challenges. And it made it, you know, if I was, it reminded me, did you ever see the movie Tree of Life?

You're great. Yeah. And I, uh, I'm thankful we were able to go out to, you know, where I grew up and I could share that part with you too. Cause I just wanted, and I've heard you mention like on a few of your podcasts, you've mentioned, you know, the poser on the rock and the gym and like the stuff that I do and kind of reference to, um,

You're great. Yeah. And I, uh, I'm thankful we were able to go out to, you know, where I grew up and I could share that part with you too. Cause I just wanted, and I've heard you mention like on a few of your podcasts, you've mentioned, you know, the poser on the rock and the gym and like the stuff that I do and kind of reference to, um,

So Brad Pitt's in it and great movie, but he was super hard dad there. When he would leave, it was like fucking playtime, right? Mom, kids jumping on the beds. And then dad would come home and be like, oh God. So I said, this reminds me of me when I was, when you go out of town, it's just playtime, come back. It's like, oh shit. So that's not great when you're the bad guy all the time.

So Brad Pitt's in it and great movie, but he was super hard dad there. When he would leave, it was like fucking playtime, right? Mom, kids jumping on the beds. And then dad would come home and be like, oh God. So I said, this reminds me of me when I was, when you go out of town, it's just playtime, come back. It's like, oh shit. So that's not great when you're the bad guy all the time.

You know, dads are usually the disciplinary and that's whatever. But I was also like, you know, making them do these really hard things. So they see now and they see all the success, but it wasn't great. And anybody from the outside in would look and say, what's wrong with that? That dad is pushing those kids too hard. You know, it's like any basketball game. I'm just like...

You know, dads are usually the disciplinary and that's whatever. But I was also like, you know, making them do these really hard things. So they see now and they see all the success, but it wasn't great. And anybody from the outside in would look and say, what's wrong with that? That dad is pushing those kids too hard. You know, it's like any basketball game. I'm just like...

a loose ball you better be on that floor and i said i want to see floor burns on your knees i want you diving on i want you playing the harder than any kid out there so that's a hard That's a hard thing to live up to. Kids just want to have fun. They want to play. They're not looking to compete every day, but I made them compete. So it was a challenge.

a loose ball you better be on that floor and i said i want to see floor burns on your knees i want you diving on i want you playing the harder than any kid out there so that's a hard That's a hard thing to live up to. Kids just want to have fun. They want to play. They're not looking to compete every day, but I made them compete. So it was a challenge.

Now you see what that results in, you know, and, you know, Tanner, he was a ranger. He's fricking badass. It's, probably tougher than Truett and then Truett's, you know, doing these crazy things and getting all this attention. And yeah, I mean, it's great. I'm, I'm glad to see it, but, um, I didn't, I wasn't perfect raising.

Now you see what that results in, you know, and, you know, Tanner, he was a ranger. He's fricking badass. It's, probably tougher than Truett and then Truett's, you know, doing these crazy things and getting all this attention. And yeah, I mean, it's great. I'm, I'm glad to see it, but, um, I didn't, I wasn't perfect raising.

Yeah, I regret, um, I regret, I remember when Tanner went to the army, um, He's a deputy back home. Very proud of him. Such an important job. He, you know, a corrections officer just worked at the jail, but still it's, you know, a good job. It's like paid, paid the bills. I was proud of him. We need people who need men to do that.

Yeah, I regret, um, I regret, I remember when Tanner went to the army, um, He's a deputy back home. Very proud of him. Such an important job. He, you know, a corrections officer just worked at the jail, but still it's, you know, a good job. It's like paid, paid the bills. I was proud of him. We need people who need men to do that.

So he said he was going to join the army and he wanted to be a ranger. And I'm just like, you know, you get deployed and I'm thinking, what if, I think it was because I would tell them that average is failing. If you look around, you see the average person. That's not us. That's not what we want to be. So we're not, yes, people need to work at gas stations and do things, whatever. That's fine.

So he said he was going to join the army and he wanted to be a ranger. And I'm just like, you know, you get deployed and I'm thinking, what if, I think it was because I would tell them that average is failing. If you look around, you see the average person. That's not us. That's not what we want to be. So we're not, yes, people need to work at gas stations and do things, whatever. That's fine.

But that's not what we're settled for. So he said he wanted to quit. He didn't want to be a deputy more. He wanted to be a ranger because he had more to offer this world. And I was thinking, was that me who fucked up and said this, that just having a regular job was somehow failing? And I just had so many regrets. And I was just like, I told him he's getting ready to go to basic training.

But that's not what we're settled for. So he said he wanted to quit. He didn't want to be a deputy more. He wanted to be a ranger because he had more to offer this world. And I was thinking, was that me who fucked up and said this, that just having a regular job was somehow failing? And I just had so many regrets. And I was just like, I told him he's getting ready to go to basic training.

And I'm like, I said, Tanner, I'm like, there's nothing wrong with having a regular job, being a family man. And I said, there's nothing. I was wrong. I was wrong to say what I said, raising new kids. And, um, cause I was thinking about what if he got deployed and was killed? And it's just like, because of shit I said, trying to make my boys tough and this is a result.

And I'm like, I said, Tanner, I'm like, there's nothing wrong with having a regular job, being a family man. And I said, there's nothing. I was wrong. I was wrong to say what I said, raising new kids. And, um, cause I was thinking about what if he got deployed and was killed? And it's just like, because of shit I said, trying to make my boys tough and this is a result.

So yeah, I was like, yeah, I definitely have had regrets over how, how hard I pushed them.

So yeah, I was like, yeah, I definitely have had regrets over how, how hard I pushed them.

that lifestyle or, or how I grew up because I, I wanted to share it with you because it's so much different than, well, in some ways different, but in some ways I felt alone too, just like you did. But I think when people, they hear like little nuggets from somebody else and then they always latch on to whatever they can identify with.

that lifestyle or, or how I grew up because I, I wanted to share it with you because it's so much different than, well, in some ways different, but in some ways I felt alone too, just like you did. But I think when people, they hear like little nuggets from somebody else and then they always latch on to whatever they can identify with.

So there's a few things that you mentioned that, uh, that really resonated with me, but I was just thankful to share everything, my little slice of the world with you, and it was awesome.

So there's a few things that you mentioned that, uh, that really resonated with me, but I was just thankful to share everything, my little slice of the world with you, and it was awesome.

I like, you know, you've kind of repurposed some stuff. So I love seeing that, but I think it's just that

I like, you know, you've kind of repurposed some stuff. So I love seeing that, but I think it's just that

you know so yeah it's uh and and i was thinking also too it's not just like what you do but when you have that mindset about life is competition um hard work is is the the key whatever that's that is impacting how you talk and how you carry yourself because everybody says says the right thing they they tell their kids what you're supposed to tell your kids it's like

you know so yeah it's uh and and i was thinking also too it's not just like what you do but when you have that mindset about life is competition um hard work is is the the key whatever that's that is impacting how you talk and how you carry yourself because everybody says says the right thing they they tell their kids what you're supposed to tell your kids it's like

as you said, no, you hold the door for women. You, you know, be respectful. Everybody says the right stuff, but how you carry yourself and then how you, how you talk, not when you're delivering some ultimatum or some direction, but just how you, what's your mindset. And that's when it's not controlled, when it's not, you're not thinking about it. So

as you said, no, you hold the door for women. You, you know, be respectful. Everybody says the right stuff, but how you carry yourself and then how you, how you talk, not when you're delivering some ultimatum or some direction, but just how you, what's your mindset. And that's when it's not controlled, when it's not, you're not thinking about it. So

question about what do i deserve yeah from life that was a great analogy and i can't maybe it's in the book also but that puritan work work ethic you know we talked about where you know you're supposed to work and i think you mentioned i can't but like the work i can't remember how you how you told the story but was it about the priests that used to work out in the sun in the

question about what do i deserve yeah from life that was a great analogy and i can't maybe it's in the book also but that puritan work work ethic you know we talked about where you know you're supposed to work and i think you mentioned i can't but like the work i can't remember how you how you told the story but was it about the priests that used to work out in the sun in the

My mindset was always, let's do more, perform more, push harder. I guess to your point that even if I wasn't, they were seeing that. Of course. It's, yeah, it's, you know, you talked about Truett, you know, originally, but even for him, your story sort of reminded me of his, like, people see him now and they're like, I mean, he's easy to, he gets hate too. Cause he's easy to hate. Definitely.

My mindset was always, let's do more, perform more, push harder. I guess to your point that even if I wasn't, they were seeing that. Of course. It's, yeah, it's, you know, you talked about Truett, you know, originally, but even for him, your story sort of reminded me of his, like, people see him now and they're like, I mean, he's easy to, he gets hate too. Cause he's easy to hate. Definitely.

Um, he's got a lot going for him and that's, that will build some resentment over with some guys, but for him, he lost for years. He, he didn't miss a day lifting weights for like 14 years, still hasn't. I started them lifting when they're 14, both him and Tanner. And since that time, he hasn't missed more than a day. So it was loss after loss after loss. He's like tiny, not getting big.

Um, he's got a lot going for him and that's, that will build some resentment over with some guys, but for him, he lost for years. He, he didn't miss a day lifting weights for like 14 years, still hasn't. I started them lifting when they're 14, both him and Tanner. And since that time, he hasn't missed more than a day. So it was loss after loss after loss. He's like tiny, not getting big.

And he mentioned this, we did this, we're doing this video on his pull-ups that, you know, he broke the world record. And he's just like, he goes, I don't think, he goes, I didn't realize that Tanner was kicking my ass every day as his older brother. Anytime we'd compete, me against him, I would never let the kids win. It was always like, it was always a battle. Always crying.

And he mentioned this, we did this, we're doing this video on his pull-ups that, you know, he broke the world record. And he's just like, he goes, I don't think, he goes, I didn't realize that Tanner was kicking my ass every day as his older brother. Anytime we'd compete, me against him, I would never let the kids win. It was always like, it was always a battle. Always crying.

I mean, kicking the basketball down the street because they're so mad. Go get it.

I mean, kicking the basketball down the street because they're so mad. Go get it.

Tanner, I was throwing like football as hard as I could, making him catch it because he's a receiver. Drops it, punches the ground, breaks his hand. So there's like all these losses, essentially. So Truett said, I didn't know that. Yeah. I was getting beat by my older brother. I was getting beat by you every day.

Tanner, I was throwing like football as hard as I could, making him catch it because he's a receiver. Drops it, punches the ground, breaks his hand. So there's like all these losses, essentially. So Truett said, I didn't know that. Yeah. I was getting beat by my older brother. I was getting beat by you every day.

He goes, I didn't realize Tanner was the biggest beast, one of the biggest beasts he's ever met. And he goes, and I didn't know you were who you were. I thought, he said, I just thought I was weak and a loser. I didn't know that I was going against these people that were making me.

He goes, I didn't realize Tanner was the biggest beast, one of the biggest beasts he's ever met. And he goes, and I didn't know you were who you were. I thought, he said, I just thought I was weak and a loser. I didn't know that I was going against these people that were making me.

So people see him now, and I'm like, if you could see him back when he was 14 years old, and when he's in high school, he was five foot, like 90 pounds, got cut from the basketball team, even though he was really good and most skilled, because he was too small. They don't see all that. They see now and they're just like, oh, what is he on steroids?

So people see him now, and I'm like, if you could see him back when he was 14 years old, and when he's in high school, he was five foot, like 90 pounds, got cut from the basketball team, even though he was really good and most skilled, because he was too small. They don't see all that. They see now and they're just like, oh, what is he on steroids?

And it's just like, no, this is a kid who hasn't missed a day in the gym for 14 years and trains for hours every day and doesn't drink, doesn't do anything but get enough rest to perform every single day. This is what you get. when you're that dedicated. But people, they want to ignore that part.

And it's just like, no, this is a kid who hasn't missed a day in the gym for 14 years and trains for hours every day and doesn't drink, doesn't do anything but get enough rest to perform every single day. This is what you get. when you're that dedicated. But people, they want to ignore that part.

Yeah. They reckon with it. Yeah. It's a, you know, that's, it's kind of a double or short because you, nobody can identify or relate to Usain Bolt because he's got that God given talent, but. and it's, it's kind of been what I've used also is like, you can come from nothing, a regular job and had success. So then it kind of, it puts a pressure on other regular guys.

Yeah. They reckon with it. Yeah. It's a, you know, that's, it's kind of a double or short because you, nobody can identify or relate to Usain Bolt because he's got that God given talent, but. and it's, it's kind of been what I've used also is like, you can come from nothing, a regular job and had success. So then it kind of, it puts a pressure on other regular guys.

Yeah. And so both Truett and I have benefited from that. It's just like, he looks like a regular guy running in jeans, but he's doing these incredible things. Or it's like, And then, so it does allow him, because if you look at his followers, it resonates more with regular people because it gives them hope that, oh, maybe I can be better.

Yeah. And so both Truett and I have benefited from that. It's just like, he looks like a regular guy running in jeans, but he's doing these incredible things. Or it's like, And then, so it does allow him, because if you look at his followers, it resonates more with regular people because it gives them hope that, oh, maybe I can be better.

Then like an elite Olympic athlete doesn't have near the followers. Truett, who is like a run fluencer is what, you know, they, some of these elites say this new craze of marathon excitement and these run groups and all this. It's just like, they don't deserve it because they're not, They're not elite like I am, but because they can relate to the average person, that's where they get the power.

Then like an elite Olympic athlete doesn't have near the followers. Truett, who is like a run fluencer is what, you know, they, some of these elites say this new craze of marathon excitement and these run groups and all this. It's just like, they don't deserve it because they're not, They're not elite like I am, but because they can relate to the average person, that's where they get the power.

So yes, you get criticized by the regular people who feel threatened, like, okay, now I'm expected to do shit like this too, but you also benefit from it because-

So yes, you get criticized by the regular people who feel threatened, like, okay, now I'm expected to do shit like this too, but you also benefit from it because-

Yeah, it's been crazy to see. I mean, it's not like nobody's immune to being criticized or nobody's immune to the effect of being criticized. Nobody likes to read the shit people say. And he's no different. But I just would... I would just encourage people to take a look and think about it.

Yeah, it's been crazy to see. I mean, it's not like nobody's immune to being criticized or nobody's immune to the effect of being criticized. Nobody likes to read the shit people say. And he's no different. But I just would... I would just encourage people to take a look and think about it.

It's like, I mean, cause I can think when I first started training and I was bow hunting and having success and I was running marathons and I remember the, the old guard or the gatekeepers would say, Oh yeah. So you have to, now you have to run a marathon to kill an elk. And I'm like, Nobody ever said that. I'm just, I'm just showing you what I do.

It's like, I mean, cause I can think when I first started training and I was bow hunting and having success and I was running marathons and I remember the, the old guard or the gatekeepers would say, Oh yeah. So you have to, now you have to run a marathon to kill an elk. And I'm like, Nobody ever said that. I'm just, I'm just showing you what I do.

You know, you can do whatever you want, but it like put this expectation there. And, you know, and now when people look at, at Truett, I just want to remind people that there was a time when he, I could help him up on the pull-up bar. He was not getting a pull-up done. He had new skinny fat. You've heard that term. Yeah. You couldn't get any more skinny fat than my boys were.

You know, you can do whatever you want, but it like put this expectation there. And, you know, and now when people look at, at Truett, I just want to remind people that there was a time when he, I could help him up on the pull-up bar. He was not getting a pull-up done. He had new skinny fat. You've heard that term. Yeah. You couldn't get any more skinny fat than my boys were.

They were just skinny, regular young boys, skinny arms, two bodies. It's just like nothing special, but that's where it starts. That's where everybody starts.

They were just skinny, regular young boys, skinny arms, two bodies. It's just like nothing special, but that's where it starts. That's where everybody starts.

footage going up the mountain with the rock and you chose talking about chosen and unchosen suffering that that's gonna last forever for me i mean it's such a good a good point you know and just that setting to have that message delivered at that time was just so powerful so yeah yeah i uh i really appreciate how complimentary you were about me in the book uh it feels like most of the first chapter is some bullshit that i've stolen or said well well look i if

footage going up the mountain with the rock and you chose talking about chosen and unchosen suffering that that's gonna last forever for me i mean it's such a good a good point you know and just that setting to have that message delivered at that time was just so powerful so yeah yeah i uh i really appreciate how complimentary you were about me in the book uh it feels like most of the first chapter is some bullshit that i've stolen or said well well look i if

Um, next, uh, oh, he's doing a last man standing race here in Austin. Okay. That's the next place. Next race. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's, that's a 4.2 mile loop every hour for as long as you can do it. Yep. So that's, but Guinness won't approve a jeans marathon.

Um, next, uh, oh, he's doing a last man standing race here in Austin. Okay. That's the next place. Next race. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's, that's a 4.2 mile loop every hour for as long as you can do it. Yep. So that's, but Guinness won't approve a jeans marathon.

I have no idea. Hmm. Cause Truett tried to do that too. And I tried to do like, I was going to run a marathon with a bow. Okay. Like just run with it. Yep. They wouldn't approve that either. So I don't know why, but they'll approve dressed as Santa wearing Crocs. A guy just, this other guy in Boston, Jordan Maddox, he ran in dressed as a banana. So it's a world record. Okay. As a fruit. Okay.

I have no idea. Hmm. Cause Truett tried to do that too. And I tried to do like, I was going to run a marathon with a bow. Okay. Like just run with it. Yep. They wouldn't approve that either. So I don't know why, but they'll approve dressed as Santa wearing Crocs. A guy just, this other guy in Boston, Jordan Maddox, he ran in dressed as a banana. So it's a world record. Okay. As a fruit. Okay.

Yeah, I think people, I think people love the discussion, but you're so good at articulating thoughts, ideas, sharing things you've read, just really putting, giving context that people can really take home. That's, you know, you just get these soundbites that are so powerful. So that's, that's your skill set. Yeah. You're great at it.

Yeah, I think people, I think people love the discussion, but you're so good at articulating thoughts, ideas, sharing things you've read, just really putting, giving context that people can really take home. That's, you know, you just get these soundbites that are so powerful. So that's, that's your skill set. Yeah. You're great at it.

So, but they won't agree.

So, but they won't agree.

I don't know. Actually, I don't know.

I don't know. Actually, I don't know.

I don't know if it's banana, fruit, oranges.

I don't know if it's banana, fruit, oranges.

It's a good choice.

It's a good choice.

It's unsurprising or surprising?

It's unsurprising or surprising?

oh yeah yeah i i'd love to see it i mean um yeah truce doing good as far as like he's selling his sponsorships and he's doing like road to sub 230 or diatrine so you know it's like a weekly video series so yeah he's i love to see it what was watching him do that the most recent pull-up record like um yeah i mean it's I just remember it's a big ask, 10,000 pull-ups.

oh yeah yeah i i'd love to see it i mean um yeah truce doing good as far as like he's selling his sponsorships and he's doing like road to sub 230 or diatrine so you know it's like a weekly video series so yeah he's i love to see it what was watching him do that the most recent pull-up record like um yeah i mean it's I just remember it's a big ask, 10,000 pull-ups.

You got two contact points, basically, your hands. That's a lot of pressure, a lot of reps, a lot of little stuff that can go wrong, ligaments, tendons. Goggins tried it a few times before he got it. And one time, I think live on Good Morning American, got injured. So did it alive some other time and got injured.

You got two contact points, basically, your hands. That's a lot of pressure, a lot of reps, a lot of little stuff that can go wrong, ligaments, tendons. Goggins tried it a few times before he got it. And one time, I think live on Good Morning American, got injured. So did it alive some other time and got injured.

So there's no guarantee you're going to make it unscathed through a challenge, 24 hours of pull-ups, but for Truett, I mean, he's so dedicated and obsessed. He trained so hard. It's like, and when he got it, I just, you know, that night, I just remember saying, you know, good job, not surprised. This is, this is what you're supposed to do. This is,

So there's no guarantee you're going to make it unscathed through a challenge, 24 hours of pull-ups, but for Truett, I mean, he's so dedicated and obsessed. He trained so hard. It's like, and when he got it, I just, you know, that night, I just remember saying, you know, good job, not surprised. This is, this is what you're supposed to do. This is,

If you weren't doing shit like this, then I'd be like, what the fuck's going on? So this is what I expected. This is the expectation that's always been there. I told the boys and my daughter too, for that matter, but you guys aren't normal. I'm not, normal isn't okay. Average isn't okay. You're supposed to be doing stuff like this. That's why we're here.

If you weren't doing shit like this, then I'd be like, what the fuck's going on? So this is what I expected. This is the expectation that's always been there. I told the boys and my daughter too, for that matter, but you guys aren't normal. I'm not, normal isn't okay. Average isn't okay. You're supposed to be doing stuff like this. That's why we're here.

So it's like, I said good job, but yeah, I'm not surprised. Expected job. Yeah, that was it. He did what he's supposed to do.

So it's like, I said good job, but yeah, I'm not surprised. Expected job. Yeah, that was it. He did what he's supposed to do.

I think it's cool that... I think it's cool that it's something that no human has ever done. He did 10,000. No human's ever been to 10,024 hours on pull-ups. So it's a, and as you mentioned earlier, anybody who's tried to do a pull-up, Fucking five pull-ups is hard. Five pull-ups is hard for me. It's like 10,000? Crazy.

I think it's cool that... I think it's cool that it's something that no human has ever done. He did 10,000. No human's ever been to 10,024 hours on pull-ups. So it's a, and as you mentioned earlier, anybody who's tried to do a pull-up, Fucking five pull-ups is hard. Five pull-ups is hard for me. It's like 10,000? Crazy.

Um, yeah, I don't, I think I might, I might say passion, love. Sometimes the, the saying I have with love is like, uh, love makes me strong. Hate makes me unstoppable. So I still lean for whatever reason I am motivated by hate, by people talking shit, by people not believing in me. If somebody supports you, I mean, it's, uh, that's great.

Um, yeah, I don't, I think I might, I might say passion, love. Sometimes the, the saying I have with love is like, uh, love makes me strong. Hate makes me unstoppable. So I still lean for whatever reason I am motivated by hate, by people talking shit, by people not believing in me. If somebody supports you, I mean, it's, uh, that's great.

Hate and people discounting what I've done or my effort or my goals, that. That's what drives me. I don't know why. But love is great. Support. I appreciate support. But I just think that, you know, I will... You said love and passion. So passion, yes. Because...

Hate and people discounting what I've done or my effort or my goals, that. That's what drives me. I don't know why. But love is great. Support. I appreciate support. But I just think that, you know, I will... You said love and passion. So passion, yes. Because...

in, in my book, I talk about outliers and, you know, you're one of them, but what, what makes somebody an outlier in my mind is this passion, passion for this thing. What's this thing? What's this thing they do for you? It's just, you know, thought provoking intellectual discussions, like peeling back the onions, figuring out, you know, modern wisdom. Um, And you're the best at it, right?

in, in my book, I talk about outliers and, you know, you're one of them, but what, what makes somebody an outlier in my mind is this passion, passion for this thing. What's this thing? What's this thing they do for you? It's just, you know, thought provoking intellectual discussions, like peeling back the onions, figuring out, you know, modern wisdom. Um, And you're the best at it, right?

So you had this passion to learn, to learn more about human behavior and the brain and the body and sexual attractiveness and different things like that. Passion drove that, right? So I think passion is what sets people apart. Love and hate, that can go either way.

So you had this passion to learn, to learn more about human behavior and the brain and the body and sexual attractiveness and different things like that. Passion drove that, right? So I think passion is what sets people apart. Love and hate, that can go either way.

Yeah. I mean, but when somebody says, you know, I mean, people say, yeah, you know, love you. It's just like, is that real? But hate.

Yeah. I mean, but when somebody says, you know, I mean, people say, yeah, you know, love you. It's just like, is that real? But hate.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's where I get, I'm more fueled by that.

Yeah. So that's where I get, I'm more fueled by that.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. If somebody's telling you how good you are all the time, for one, you can start to believe it. And then to me, if I'm hearing that, I'm losing my edge. I'm like, I don't want to hear that shit. That's I appreciate it, but I want, I want an edge. I want, I want to know why you don't think I'm. So that's what, that's what poser. That's why it's so powerful to me.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. If somebody's telling you how good you are all the time, for one, you can start to believe it. And then to me, if I'm hearing that, I'm losing my edge. I'm like, I don't want to hear that shit. That's I appreciate it, but I want, I want an edge. I want, I want to know why you don't think I'm. So that's what, that's what poser. That's why it's so powerful to me.

I like when people say, oh yeah, fucking cam poser. Yeah. Yeah.

I like when people say, oh yeah, fucking cam poser. Yeah. Yeah.

Man. Uh, what? Yeah, I don't know. What's crazy is I don't, I don't remember ever being asked this before. So what, um, Man, I don't know. Now, now it's like when you go through life and there probably was decision making at some point, but now it's kind of just what I do sort of. And, you know, I'm just going to get up. I'm going to get my whatever work I have.

Man. Uh, what? Yeah, I don't know. What's crazy is I don't, I don't remember ever being asked this before. So what, um, Man, I don't know. Now, now it's like when you go through life and there probably was decision making at some point, but now it's kind of just what I do sort of. And, you know, I'm just going to get up. I'm going to get my whatever work I have.

Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. When you, when you were saying that, I was thinking about, um, yeah, I don't know. It's, uh, I'm, I'm happiest, uh,

Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. When you, when you were saying that, I was thinking about, um, yeah, I don't know. It's, uh, I'm, I'm happiest, uh,

when I'm suffering so I've heard people say like they said this mostly about Goggins I don't know you've talked to him too but it's just like asking him it's like are you ever happy it's just like for him he's happy when he's miserable so it's like well whose definition of happy you're talking about is you're happy eating fucking donuts watching tv That sounds miserable to me.

when I'm suffering so I've heard people say like they said this mostly about Goggins I don't know you've talked to him too but it's just like asking him it's like are you ever happy it's just like for him he's happy when he's miserable so it's like well whose definition of happy you're talking about is you're happy eating fucking donuts watching tv That sounds miserable to me.

So it's like the people that get these words and they're like, are you happy? Are you enjoying yourself? Or do you ever have fun? It's like running up that mountain is fun. that's what I like. So yeah, it's a, when you're talking about pleasure and passion, I was trying to, to weigh that out there on, on what is, what is happiness for people, you know?

So it's like the people that get these words and they're like, are you happy? Are you enjoying yourself? Or do you ever have fun? It's like running up that mountain is fun. that's what I like. So yeah, it's a, when you're talking about pleasure and passion, I was trying to, to weigh that out there on, on what is, what is happiness for people, you know?

And also another thing, um, I see you put up like 3 million subscribers. So it's like, is that what type of, does that do anything for you? Is that I mean, cause you'll never let off. You're like, okay, I made it. I'm good. I got 3 million. That was my goal. But you put that up. Like sometimes people will put up things like, like I made it like, this is my, I'm here, but I've arrived to you.

And also another thing, um, I see you put up like 3 million subscribers. So it's like, is that what type of, does that do anything for you? Is that I mean, cause you'll never let off. You're like, okay, I made it. I'm good. I got 3 million. That was my goal. But you put that up. Like sometimes people will put up things like, like I made it like, this is my, I'm here, but I've arrived to you.

That's just, what is that?

That's just, what is that?

How do you... Is that a measurable that tells you that? No. Because some people look at... I haven't looked at where your podcast is on the charts today. Okay. I like measurables. I need to do this many miles, this fast, at this pace. I want this many... What downloads to the pod? It's like, I love measure measurables. And I think the, my boys have kind of taken on that.

How do you... Is that a measurable that tells you that? No. Because some people look at... I haven't looked at where your podcast is on the charts today. Okay. I like measurables. I need to do this many miles, this fast, at this pace. I want this many... What downloads to the pod? It's like, I love measure measurables. And I think the, my boys have kind of taken on that.

I'm going to get it in, whether that's 20 miles or whatever. whatever it is, shooting the bow, um, you know, now it's content creation. You got, that's a never ending process, but now just the hard stuff. I think you're talking about like the challenging and, um, the mounds. That's just what I do. Um, Before it was what, before it was what I do. I don't know.

I'm going to get it in, whether that's 20 miles or whatever. whatever it is, shooting the bow, um, you know, now it's content creation. You got, that's a never ending process, but now just the hard stuff. I think you're talking about like the challenging and, um, the mounds. That's just what I do. Um, Before it was what, before it was what I do. I don't know.

Yeah. I was curious about that just because we're so inundated with these measurables every day with the follower count, the likes, the, you know, when you start getting into podcasts, then it is a downloads because in that affects what you can ask for advertisers. And that's all they give a fuck about. They don't care about what type of connection you had with your guests.

Yeah. I was curious about that just because we're so inundated with these measurables every day with the follower count, the likes, the, you know, when you start getting into podcasts, then it is a downloads because in that affects what you can ask for advertisers. And that's all they give a fuck about. They don't care about what type of connection you had with your guests.

They're like, okay, cool. How many downloads was it? You know? So it's like, we get kind of roped into this trap of everything is measurable and it's like, you're not successful unless you're here. And then when you're here, you better be here. So I was just kind of curious how you navigated that just because it is, it's life nowadays. It is. And it's easy. It's an easy like,

They're like, okay, cool. How many downloads was it? You know? So it's like, we get kind of roped into this trap of everything is measurable and it's like, you're not successful unless you're here. And then when you're here, you better be here. So I was just kind of curious how you navigated that just because it is, it's life nowadays. It is. And it's easy. It's an easy like,

I think that was where that was that uncertainty. It's like, where do I fit in this world? What, what do I, and it's not even like, I never even asked myself, what do I have to offer? Cause I didn't think I had anything to offer. So you never even got to that, that part, but it was just like, is this it? Is this just going to work and trying to pay bills.

I think that was where that was that uncertainty. It's like, where do I fit in this world? What, what do I, and it's not even like, I never even asked myself, what do I have to offer? Cause I didn't think I had anything to offer. So you never even got to that, that part, but it was just like, is this it? Is this just going to work and trying to pay bills.

Everybody loves like, how do I compare? So it's an easy comparison. That's why you look at the list on like whose podcast is highest rated. Right. But I think Joe's done a really good job of this, too. It's like and I want to kind of adopt. Well, your mindset is very similar now. That's why he can have on somebody like me.

Everybody loves like, how do I compare? So it's an easy comparison. That's why you look at the list on like whose podcast is highest rated. Right. But I think Joe's done a really good job of this, too. It's like and I want to kind of adopt. Well, your mindset is very similar now. That's why he can have on somebody like me.

who when I first went on there, nobody, nobody knew who I was, but he, Joe doesn't care. He's just like, am I interested in this person? Most podcasts are like, let's go with the biggest guest. That's going to give me the biggest.

who when I first went on there, nobody, nobody knew who I was, but he, Joe doesn't care. He's just like, am I interested in this person? Most podcasts are like, let's go with the biggest guest. That's going to give me the biggest.

I know. We got a lot of good material out of that discussion, that time, that day. I still see clips everywhere.

I know. We got a lot of good material out of that discussion, that time, that day. I still see clips everywhere.

And it's like, I remember like even a tactic I had, I haven't even done a checkbook in a long time, but my wife's in charge of that. But like, even just writing out checks and I would just, I was never, I never thought it was going to, anything I did was going to last. So I'd be like, if I, if I had a check for like $17, I'd just make, make it for $20, put it in a thing.

And it's like, I remember like even a tactic I had, I haven't even done a checkbook in a long time, but my wife's in charge of that. But like, even just writing out checks and I would just, I was never, I never thought it was going to, anything I did was going to last. So I'd be like, if I, if I had a check for like $17, I'd just make, make it for $20, put it in a thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Yeah. Uh, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's a tough one. It's like, uh, You know, you want to be successful. I like – I think when I was – you were kind of explaining that. The best feedback is when somebody says they really enjoyed whatever discussion you had. And they're not talking about how many people listened to it. You know, it's just how it impacted them. And it's like –

Yeah. Uh, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's a tough one. It's like, uh, You know, you want to be successful. I like – I think when I was – you were kind of explaining that. The best feedback is when somebody says they really enjoyed whatever discussion you had. And they're not talking about how many people listened to it. You know, it's just how it impacted them. And it's like –

I'm not great at, quote, podcasting, which is why I do the Lift, Run, Shoot with my guests because I can connect on that. And then that hopefully helps the conversation. But yeah, it's tough. It's tough sitting down and really – Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's not tough. Maybe it's just, we don't do this. Maybe we, how often do you sit down and just talk to somebody? I never do it.

I'm not great at, quote, podcasting, which is why I do the Lift, Run, Shoot with my guests because I can connect on that. And then that hopefully helps the conversation. But yeah, it's tough. It's tough sitting down and really – Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's not tough. Maybe it's just, we don't do this. Maybe we, how often do you sit down and just talk to somebody? I never do it.

Like, not like this. So maybe it's like, maybe you can learn a lot just by having a discussion and maybe a podcast is an excuse that we'd never, we wouldn't, we wouldn't do this normally.

Like, not like this. So maybe it's like, maybe you can learn a lot just by having a discussion and maybe a podcast is an excuse that we'd never, we wouldn't, we wouldn't do this normally.

Cause I'm not going to be like, call up one of my buddies and say, Hey, you want to go talk for a couple hours? I was like, okay. Nobody would say, sure.

Cause I'm not going to be like, call up one of my buddies and say, Hey, you want to go talk for a couple hours? I was like, okay. Nobody would say, sure.

And I'm like, well, at the end of the day, I should have more in here. Instead of being exact, I just wanted this cushion of like, I just want to have a little bit more than what I think. And then I can just get through a challenging time. That's as far into the future as I ever thought. It's just like, let's round up in the checkbook. Yeah.

And I'm like, well, at the end of the day, I should have more in here. Instead of being exact, I just wanted this cushion of like, I just want to have a little bit more than what I think. And then I can just get through a challenging time. That's as far into the future as I ever thought. It's just like, let's round up in the checkbook. Yeah.

Oh, it's the long race. You know, the, well, this race I've coming up is 250 miles. I've done 240 miles. I've been 200 miles, 100 miles is hard. Um, marathons are hard when you're pushing a lot of hard hunts where you're just miserable, you know, in the snow, long hunt, Kodiak Island for 12 days. So it's, um, though, but those are, um,

Oh, it's the long race. You know, the, well, this race I've coming up is 250 miles. I've done 240 miles. I've been 200 miles, 100 miles is hard. Um, marathons are hard when you're pushing a lot of hard hunts where you're just miserable, you know, in the snow, long hunt, Kodiak Island for 12 days. So it's, um, though, but those are, um,

Those, they're not predictable, but you know what you're getting into. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, you know, it's going to be terrible and it's going to, you're going to be miserable probably for a while, but that's part of the deal. That's just like, that's why you sign up is that test. I'm trying to test myself. I want to see if I'm tough enough to do this.

Those, they're not predictable, but you know what you're getting into. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, you know, it's going to be terrible and it's going to, you're going to be miserable probably for a while, but that's part of the deal. That's just like, that's why you sign up is that test. I'm trying to test myself. I want to see if I'm tough enough to do this.

So those, when I think of hard, it's those.

So those, when I think of hard, it's those.

um yeah i mean yeah i've been on uh i don't know a lot of hard hunts in the mounds just being soaking soaking wet i mean one time me and roy were sheep hunting roy's my friend who fell but before obviously before he fell we were sheep hunting um miserable weather conditions super steep uh And we were blood trailing this ram and it wasn't a good shot.

um yeah i mean yeah i've been on uh i don't know a lot of hard hunts in the mounds just being soaking soaking wet i mean one time me and roy were sheep hunting roy's my friend who fell but before obviously before he fell we were sheep hunting um miserable weather conditions super steep uh And we were blood trailing this ram and it wasn't a good shot.

So it's like, it's going to be a long, hard blood trail to kind of decipher and get this animal. And it got dark. And then a grizzly was kind of circling the tents. And I was just like, I don't give a fuck. I'm going to bed. I'm not, I'm not even, I don't care about this bear. I don't know what's going to happen. Whatever. So tired, just went to bed. That's being miserable.

So it's like, it's going to be a long, hard blood trail to kind of decipher and get this animal. And it got dark. And then a grizzly was kind of circling the tents. And I was just like, I don't give a fuck. I'm going to bed. I'm not, I'm not even, I don't care about this bear. I don't know what's going to happen. Whatever. So tired, just went to bed. That's being miserable.

On Kodiak, you know, you get dropped off. And I remember in my book, Backcountry Bowhunting, the pilot like wrote down the day he's supposed to come back and pick us up on his jeans with a pin. So it's like, hopefully he doesn't wash those jeans. He's going to come back in what, 12 days, two weeks to get us. And this is first week in November. So it's pouring down rain every day.

On Kodiak, you know, you get dropped off. And I remember in my book, Backcountry Bowhunting, the pilot like wrote down the day he's supposed to come back and pick us up on his jeans with a pin. So it's like, hopefully he doesn't wash those jeans. He's going to come back in what, 12 days, two weeks to get us. And this is first week in November. So it's pouring down rain every day.

Kodiak is just south of the mainland there. And it's just miserable. Every day you're wet. It's just miserable. So, yeah. Then if you talk about the races, you're going the long races. So in Moab 240, I think I slept for about, I don't know. I can't remember now. It's been a few years, but two to four hours. And it took me 79 hours to finish a race.

Kodiak is just south of the mainland there. And it's just miserable. Every day you're wet. It's just miserable. So, yeah. Then if you talk about the races, you're going the long races. So in Moab 240, I think I slept for about, I don't know. I can't remember now. It's been a few years, but two to four hours. And it took me 79 hours to finish a race.

So over three days and slept, you know, maybe four hours total. So that when... you know what it feels like to get a good night's rest. It's just like, nothing feels better if it seems like, so on the opposite of that, when all you want to do is sleep, but you have to keep pushing for 240 miles, it's, that seems overwhelming.

So over three days and slept, you know, maybe four hours total. So that when... you know what it feels like to get a good night's rest. It's just like, nothing feels better if it seems like, so on the opposite of that, when all you want to do is sleep, but you have to keep pushing for 240 miles, it's, that seems overwhelming.

So to just, to build a muster up the strength to still take another step where every step is an effort. And so if you think when I go running, every mile is 2,000 steps. So if I'm doing 200, you know, so it's 500,000 steps, 500,000 steps roughly in every one as an effort, It's tough. That hurts.

So to just, to build a muster up the strength to still take another step where every step is an effort. And so if you think when I go running, every mile is 2,000 steps. So if I'm doing 200, you know, so it's 500,000 steps, 500,000 steps roughly in every one as an effort, It's tough. That hurts.

Just so I got a little buffer and that there was no future. If that was thinking about the future, that's all I did right there.

Just so I got a little buffer and that there was no future. If that was thinking about the future, that's all I did right there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

500,000.

500,000.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, Laz.

Yeah, Laz.

Yeah. Barkley, there's no finishers sometimes, but the backyards, there's always going to be one person who outlasts the other. So that also called last man standing is kind of what they're called. But yeah, it's.

Yeah. Barkley, there's no finishers sometimes, but the backyards, there's always going to be one person who outlasts the other. So that also called last man standing is kind of what they're called. But yeah, it's.

No, I mean, the race is still there. It's just you needed somebody else to go with you to go to the next level. Yeah. So the race never loses. You never really win the race. You just outlast.

No, I mean, the race is still there. It's just you needed somebody else to go with you to go to the next level. Yeah. So the race never loses. You never really win the race. You just outlast.

You outlast the other man or woman. But yeah, those fascinating, isn't it? That how long can you run four miles an hour? Yeah. It's crazy. Now there's guys who have went 400 miles. Do you know this? No. 450 miles.

You outlast the other man or woman. But yeah, those fascinating, isn't it? That how long can you run four miles an hour? Yeah. It's crazy. Now there's guys who have went 400 miles. Do you know this? No. 450 miles.

Yeah. So, God, what would that, so that'd have to be a hundred and some hours. How many days is that? That's over four days with never getting more than, so if you finish and say 50 minutes, you get 10 minutes before you have to be on the start line. So never getting more than 10 minutes of rest. Is that typical?

Yeah. So, God, what would that, so that'd have to be a hundred and some hours. How many days is that? That's over four days with never getting more than, so if you finish and say 50 minutes, you get 10 minutes before you have to be on the start line. So never getting more than 10 minutes of rest. Is that typical?

Yeah, you could, but for how long? So the thing with these is the more you break your body down, the less distance you're going to be able to go. If you run fast, you're stretching.

Yeah, you could, but for how long? So the thing with these is the more you break your body down, the less distance you're going to be able to go. If you run fast, you're stretching.

Your muscles out, which stretching muscles out is essentially breaking them down over time. Yeah. So yeah, it's like finding that sweet spot. I think Courtney, she's won one of those before. And I think she was doing her laps in about 50 or 52 minutes. So just got, if you get eight minutes, get a little food in, sit down for a sec, the back on the line.

Your muscles out, which stretching muscles out is essentially breaking them down over time. Yeah. So yeah, it's like finding that sweet spot. I think Courtney, she's won one of those before. And I think she was doing her laps in about 50 or 52 minutes. So just got, if you get eight minutes, get a little food in, sit down for a sec, the back on the line.

Yeah. In jeans. Ah, shit. I don't know. I told him, I'm like,

Yeah. In jeans. Ah, shit. I don't know. I told him, I'm like,

mean he needs a win like if if you had he hasn't won a race so it's like he's yes he's went viral in boston and austin marathon eugene he just you know a lot of news stories and he does have the world record in the pull-ups that's all great i said but you need a win you need to be come across break that tape because i you haven't had a win yet so you show me a win that's the goal

mean he needs a win like if if you had he hasn't won a race so it's like he's yes he's went viral in boston and austin marathon eugene he just you know a lot of news stories and he does have the world record in the pull-ups that's all great i said but you need a win you need to be come across break that tape because i you haven't had a win yet so you show me a win that's the goal

Yeah, I mean, we always joke that... Truett always joked he got shitty genetics. That's why he had to overcome his genetics. Because really, I mean, I don't have... I have never thought I've had great genetics. If I had great genetics, I would have been able to play college football for a while.

Yeah, I mean, we always joke that... Truett always joked he got shitty genetics. That's why he had to overcome his genetics. Because really, I mean, I don't have... I have never thought I've had great genetics. If I had great genetics, I would have been able to play college football for a while.

And so I've always said, you know, I've just... Either you're average or obsessed has kind of been my thing. It's just like... I had, if I didn't want to be average, I had to be obsessed. So I just put it, tied it all into hard work. When I see the boys, I do see they have some genetic advantage for sure. But what do genetic advantages give you if you don't capitalize on them? Not much, right?

And so I've always said, you know, I've just... Either you're average or obsessed has kind of been my thing. It's just like... I had, if I didn't want to be average, I had to be obsessed. So I just put it, tied it all into hard work. When I see the boys, I do see they have some genetic advantage for sure. But what do genetic advantages give you if you don't capitalize on them? Not much, right?

So they've just both done a good job of capitalizing on whatever gifts they've had. And then Truett is definitely maximizing them

So they've just both done a good job of capitalizing on whatever gifts they've had. And then Truett is definitely maximizing them

Yeah. No, for sure. When I hear that story, what I think about is how great could he be being dedicated.

Yeah. No, for sure. When I hear that story, what I think about is how great could he be being dedicated.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because he's comparing himself to, yes, they're elites, but could he be a legend? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because he's comparing himself to, yes, they're elites, but could he be a legend? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But could he be the best ever? You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I don't know. Cause Gordon Ryan, does he live pretty, I think he, does he live pretty clean? I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But could he be the best ever? You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I don't know. Cause Gordon Ryan, does he live pretty, I think he, does he live pretty clean? I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because when I think about, you know, if I think, I don't know, if you think Truett, you're like, I hear people say all the time, well, if I was in this situation or if... or they've even said like, if, if I, you know, if they were raised, like true, it was raised type thing or, you know, people privilege of being made to suffer as a seven year old.

Yeah, because when I think about, you know, if I think, I don't know, if you think Truett, you're like, I hear people say all the time, well, if I was in this situation or if... or they've even said like, if, if I, you know, if they were raised, like true, it was raised type thing or, you know, people privilege of being made to suffer as a seven year old.

Yeah. They did. Well, Oh, that's another thing that I get worried about is some of the dads watching what he's doing and then thinking like, I'm going to have a child that does a 10,001.

Yeah. They did. Well, Oh, that's another thing that I get worried about is some of the dads watching what he's doing and then thinking like, I'm going to have a child that does a 10,001.

And, and I, I feel bad for those kids because it was like the perfect storm for my boys. Yeah. And they were built for it. So, you know, people say I'm built for this, whatever, I don't, whatever the case, but they did eventually flourish. A lot of kids aren't going to, it's going to be a disaster. It's going to be a disaster.

And, and I, I feel bad for those kids because it was like the perfect storm for my boys. Yeah. And they were built for it. So, you know, people say I'm built for this, whatever, I don't, whatever the case, but they did eventually flourish. A lot of kids aren't going to, it's going to be a disaster. It's going to be a disaster.

And the dad is probably not going to be like living that example every day. Like I was. So it's like, then it's just like, what, you don't do this. Why am I doing? It's going to be tough.

And the dad is probably not going to be like living that example every day. Like I was. So it's like, then it's just like, what, you don't do this. Why am I doing? It's going to be tough.

And with more opportunity than anywhere else in the world. And that's, that's average American. That's what's crazy. I was, I'm, I was curious about what you think about this. Cause I've heard people say that, you know, I couldn't have done it without whatever their wife or their, their, whatever it's like. Um, and as you know, my wife has been supportive.

And with more opportunity than anywhere else in the world. And that's, that's average American. That's what's crazy. I was, I'm, I was curious about what you think about this. Cause I've heard people say that, you know, I couldn't have done it without whatever their wife or their, their, whatever it's like. Um, and as you know, my wife has been supportive.

Truett's wife is very supportive, but to me, it's just like, So, I don't know. That's why I want to hear what you think. Because yes, I think... So if, if say true is saying, oh, I'm going to go, I need to go train. And his wife was saying again, but so I could see where that would be an issue.

Truett's wife is very supportive, but to me, it's just like, So, I don't know. That's why I want to hear what you think. Because yes, I think... So if, if say true is saying, oh, I'm going to go, I need to go train. And his wife was saying again, but so I could see where that would be an issue.

But to me, it's just like, maybe it goes back to the point you started to make this whole time about like parenting or whatever. It's like, I don't know. I don't want to say if it's fate, but to me it's like, yeah, support is nice, but I fucking don't need anything. I do the same shit. Whether you love me, hate me, support me or don't, nothing's going to stop me.

But to me, it's just like, maybe it goes back to the point you started to make this whole time about like parenting or whatever. It's like, I don't know. I don't want to say if it's fate, but to me it's like, yeah, support is nice, but I fucking don't need anything. I do the same shit. Whether you love me, hate me, support me or don't, nothing's going to stop me.

I wonder if, so can people say, well, I didn't have that environment or the support you had. That's why I didn't achieve this. Or are there people who are like, and I think of Goggins. I think he, I don't care who the fuck was in his life. He was going to be who he is no matter what.

I wonder if, so can people say, well, I didn't have that environment or the support you had. That's why I didn't achieve this. Or are there people who are like, and I think of Goggins. I think he, I don't care who the fuck was in his life. He was going to be who he is no matter what.

Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

Right. That makes sense. Yeah. I knew there's a reason I brought it up because you could distill it down perfectly. But yeah, I was just curious about, I've never really thought about it past like just the basics like that. So thank you for that.

Right. That makes sense. Yeah. I knew there's a reason I brought it up because you could distill it down perfectly. But yeah, I was just curious about, I've never really thought about it past like just the basics like that. So thank you for that.

Do you think it's like more... It certainly contributes, I think. Yeah.

Do you think it's like more... It certainly contributes, I think. Yeah.

Yeah, because it's like, I heard somebody say the other day, because now I'm thinking about like what it means to be a man and a provider type thing. Yeah, I think that, I don't know, it's hard. It's hard. I just know the pressure I felt as being a dad and a husband and like making sure everybody was taken care of, the bills were paid and all this. I just know... Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, because it's like, I heard somebody say the other day, because now I'm thinking about like what it means to be a man and a provider type thing. Yeah, I think that, I don't know, it's hard. It's hard. I just know the pressure I felt as being a dad and a husband and like making sure everybody was taken care of, the bills were paid and all this. I just know... Yeah, I don't know.

I think men get roped into this trap of worth sometimes. And it's just, that's fine because that's how it works. You know, not many women are out there saying, I need to work harder because I need to get my husband a bigger house and a nicer car. I mean.

I think men get roped into this trap of worth sometimes. And it's just, that's fine because that's how it works. You know, not many women are out there saying, I need to work harder because I need to get my husband a bigger house and a nicer car. I mean.

I don't. Yeah.

I don't. Yeah.

Like what's an example?

Like what's an example?

Yeah, yeah. It's from Jackson, or is it, is it Jackson City? Or no, no. What, shit, now I can't remember. Oh no, Black Canyon, fuck, now I can't remember. Black Canyon City? I don't know, to Flagstaff.

Yeah, yeah. It's from Jackson, or is it, is it Jackson City? Or no, no. What, shit, now I can't remember. Oh no, Black Canyon, fuck, now I can't remember. Black Canyon City? I don't know, to Flagstaff.

I mean, it'll be hot during the day, of course, but it's kind of high desert, so it could be cold at night.

I mean, it'll be hot during the day, of course, but it's kind of high desert, so it could be cold at night.

Yeah, like when I did Moab, for example, it was maybe 90 during the day, and then one night it got down to nine in the mountains. Quite a swing. Holy fuck. Yeah, so it's a tough one. Yeah, it'll be good. But yeah, it's always like finding that limit, essentially, because... when you're saying that, I was thinking back to like, I mean, when I grew up,

Yeah, like when I did Moab, for example, it was maybe 90 during the day, and then one night it got down to nine in the mountains. Quite a swing. Holy fuck. Yeah, so it's a tough one. Yeah, it'll be good. But yeah, it's always like finding that limit, essentially, because... when you're saying that, I was thinking back to like, I mean, when I grew up,

I didn't even know people actually paid off cars. I thought you just had a car payment. It was like, I didn't know, or I thought like that little mobile home I showed you, I thought I'd lived there and I didn't actually know people paid off their houses. I thought you just paid rent or your house payment forever.

I didn't even know people actually paid off cars. I thought you just had a car payment. It was like, I didn't know, or I thought like that little mobile home I showed you, I thought I'd lived there and I didn't actually know people paid off their houses. I thought you just paid rent or your house payment forever.

And I was just like, so now, now it's just like, I have to readjust, you know, my house was paid off my, and I'm just like, Okay. Now I don't really know what to do. I don't really know what the goal is supposed to be.

And I was just like, so now, now it's just like, I have to readjust, you know, my house was paid off my, and I'm just like, Okay. Now I don't really know what to do. I don't really know what the goal is supposed to be.

Yeah. That was, that was awesome. That was the dream. Yeah. Those are called manufactured homes. Do they not have those here?

Yeah. That was, that was awesome. That was the dream. Yeah. Those are called manufactured homes. Do they not have those here?

It's like an old... They used to have a trailer park where it was like they're made out of metal. Now they look more like houses, but they're still sort of... They still come in on wheels.

It's like an old... They used to have a trailer park where it was like they're made out of metal. Now they look more like houses, but they're still sort of... They still come in on wheels.

Still the same, yeah. But for, you know, for out there, like where I showed you where we drove, it was just like, shit, that's awesome.

Still the same, yeah. But for, you know, for out there, like where I showed you where we drove, it was just like, shit, that's awesome.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I know.

I know.

Yeah, I mean, I just, well, I lean into the hate. So I'm always, any negative about me is being reinforced. So I never feel like a success, so to speak, because I'm reading these hateful things people say about me. It's hard to feel successful when you're reading what a piece of shit you are, right? So I get reminded of that daily, but also it's like,

Yeah, I mean, I just, well, I lean into the hate. So I'm always, any negative about me is being reinforced. So I never feel like a success, so to speak, because I'm reading these hateful things people say about me. It's hard to feel successful when you're reading what a piece of shit you are, right? So I get reminded of that daily, but also it's like,

Even when I had my regular job, I was a superintendent at the water and power company. I felt like I never deserved that job. I'm like, no, they're going to figure out. I'm not, even though I was good at it, I was good, but I always felt like I'm supposed to just be a worker. I'm a worker. That's my talent level. That's my ability. That's my intelligence is we need workers. That's me.

Even when I had my regular job, I was a superintendent at the water and power company. I felt like I never deserved that job. I'm like, no, they're going to figure out. I'm not, even though I was good at it, I was good, but I always felt like I'm supposed to just be a worker. I'm a worker. That's my talent level. That's my ability. That's my intelligence is we need workers. That's me.

And so I've never, that's all. Even though I, I retired from that job and now I'm doing the other thing. It's just like, I, I'm a worker. That's, that's what I do. So whether it's running miles, lifting weights, doing the podcast, 160 episodes or whatever it is, it's just like, yeah, it's just a different form of being in the ditch. I thought that I was just going to be in a ditch, you know,

And so I've never, that's all. Even though I, I retired from that job and now I'm doing the other thing. It's just like, I, I'm a worker. That's, that's what I do. So whether it's running miles, lifting weights, doing the podcast, 160 episodes or whatever it is, it's just like, yeah, it's just a different form of being in the ditch. I thought that I was just going to be in a ditch, you know,

putting water lying in the ground when I worked for the utility till I retired. So it's just, it's the same. It's just work. It's just in a different form.

putting water lying in the ground when I worked for the utility till I retired. So it's just, it's the same. It's just work. It's just in a different form.

you believed that you were worthy of the things that you've achieved or if you believed that you were good enough um if i felt like i deserved this because this is part of it um man i don't even i've never felt that way i've never um how would i feel Seems like it'd feel good. Would it feel, wouldn't it? I'm guessing. I mean, wouldn't it feel good to feel like you're a success?

you believed that you were worthy of the things that you've achieved or if you believed that you were good enough um if i felt like i deserved this because this is part of it um man i don't even i've never felt that way i've never um how would i feel Seems like it'd feel good. Would it feel, wouldn't it? I'm guessing. I mean, wouldn't it feel good to feel like you're a success?

I think that'd feel good. I've never felt that. So I don't, um, cause even, even if somebody told me that, or if you, if you, if somebody says that right now, like I would just be like, I would just discount it and be like, no, no, they're fucking full of shit. They're just saying, that's what you're supposed to say to people. I mean, I wouldn't believe it. So I don't know. I'm not, I don't know.

I think that'd feel good. I've never felt that. So I don't, um, cause even, even if somebody told me that, or if you, if you, if somebody says that right now, like I would just be like, I would just discount it and be like, no, no, they're fucking full of shit. They're just saying, that's what you're supposed to say to people. I mean, I wouldn't believe it. So I don't know. I'm not, I don't know.

What if, let me give you another one.

What if, let me give you another one.

Man, I don't, um, it means like take a step back and say, wow, I made it.

Man, I don't, um, it means like take a step back and say, wow, I made it.

I felt like I did what I was supposed to do. So if I didn't raise the kids to be that way, I failed because they had it. Obviously, they have it. So you have made it. So you were a success. Yeah. No.

I felt like I did what I was supposed to do. So if I didn't raise the kids to be that way, I failed because they had it. Obviously, they have it. So you have made it. So you were a success. Yeah. No.

Yeah, that's, I mean, and that's the secret because most people, like you said, you started to get a little muscle, started to feel a little bit better about yourself. But how many people get there and then slide back? Yeah. and then have to start back over to get there again.

Yeah, that's, I mean, and that's the secret because most people, like you said, you started to get a little muscle, started to feel a little bit better about yourself. But how many people get there and then slide back? Yeah. and then have to start back over to get there again.

I just did what I was supposed to do. I understand. So you can only fail, right?

I just did what I was supposed to do. I understand. So you can only fail, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Because what if they weren't achieving these things? Then I failed. Because they had it in them. So as a parent, aren't you supposed to get the most, have your kids believe that they can achieve incredible things and get them to do it?

Because what if they weren't achieving these things? Then I failed. Because they had it in them. So as a parent, aren't you supposed to get the most, have your kids believe that they can achieve incredible things and get them to do it?

Because you're not carrying it on your head.

Because you're not carrying it on your head.

Because when I think about even this race coming up, I broke my foot. I've had all these injuries. And it's like, of course, my wife, people that care about me, is like, we can't do the race. I'm like, I have to do the race. Well, because Speedland has the shoes coming out. It's a big promotion about me doing this race with the Cocodona 250 shoes. Got a road shoe and like this.

Because when I think about even this race coming up, I broke my foot. I've had all these injuries. And it's like, of course, my wife, people that care about me, is like, we can't do the race. I'm like, I have to do the race. Well, because Speedland has the shoes coming out. It's a big promotion about me doing this race with the Cocodona 250 shoes. Got a road shoe and like this.

You know, so they get, a lot of times they get a little of that dopamine is whatever, but a little of that positive reinforcement hit and that feels great, but then they still can't,

You know, so they get, a lot of times they get a little of that dopamine is whatever, but a little of that positive reinforcement hit and that feels great, but then they still can't,

I have expectations. The race let me in.

I have expectations. The race let me in.

to drive awareness and to drive interest it's like i got people this is relying on me relying on me i not doing it is not an option well you're hurt doesn't matter so it's like yeah i'm not quite there i'm not quite there yet to where i can be like because normally it'd be like most people would probably be like i'm injured i was going to do it but i broke my foot and

to drive awareness and to drive interest it's like i got people this is relying on me relying on me i not doing it is not an option well you're hurt doesn't matter so it's like yeah i'm not quite there i'm not quite there yet to where i can be like because normally it'd be like most people would probably be like i'm injured i was going to do it but i broke my foot and

And anybody would say, oh, yeah, that makes sense. That's a good reason. That's a good reason. But I can't do it. So I can't.

And anybody would say, oh, yeah, that makes sense. That's a good reason. That's a good reason. But I can't do it. So I can't.

I'm going to have one here on the 12th, Tanner.

I'm going to have one here on the 12th, Tanner.

I mean, if kids don't change you, do you grant?

I mean, if kids don't change you, do you grant?

Yeah. You know, I think it would be different because as you said, like, even if I had kids now with where I am socially, economically, you know, when they were born, we didn't have anything, you know, so it was just like, it was a grind different now. So yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe it will be different.

Yeah. You know, I think it would be different because as you said, like, even if I had kids now with where I am socially, economically, you know, when they were born, we didn't have anything, you know, so it was just like, it was a grind different now. So yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe it will be different.

can't make that consistent you know because life gets in the way or i don't know they get distracted or they they lose enthusiasm whatever the key is that consistency decade after decade after decade and that's why like i even think like me back in high school yes i was an athlete but there was better athletes now i've been doing it for 40 years there's nobody

can't make that consistent you know because life gets in the way or i don't know they get distracted or they they lose enthusiasm whatever the key is that consistency decade after decade after decade and that's why like i even think like me back in high school yes i was an athlete but there was better athletes now i've been doing it for 40 years there's nobody

Thank you. And your drink is amazing.

Thank you. And your drink is amazing.

Get me dialed in.

Get me dialed in.

Undeniable. Chris Williamson is featured. Modern Wisdom.

Undeniable. Chris Williamson is featured. Modern Wisdom.

Outlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Undeniable. It's available everywhere. It ships on May 6th. The goal is... Hang on.

Outlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Undeniable. It's available everywhere. It ships on May 6th. The goal is... Hang on.

That's why I'm doing this now.

That's why I'm doing this now.

Yeah. Oh, right. Okay. Well, I just said that... The book, you know, a book release is usually pretty predictable. You go and you do these appearances and that. I said, mine's going to be a little different. I'm going to be doing a 250 mile race and the book comes out. And that's, to me, that means you are undeniable. You're living the philosophy. Yeah. So it's like-

Yeah. Oh, right. Okay. Well, I just said that... The book, you know, a book release is usually pretty predictable. You go and you do these appearances and that. I said, mine's going to be a little different. I'm going to be doing a 250 mile race and the book comes out. And that's, to me, that means you are undeniable. You're living the philosophy. Yeah. So it's like-

Last time they had Endure, they got it up to number seven on New York Times, so I got screwed. I was the best seller of those, but it's an editorial. So just give me what I deserve. I just want number one this time. All right.

Last time they had Endure, they got it up to number seven on New York Times, so I got screwed. I was the best seller of those, but it's an editorial. So just give me what I deserve. I just want number one this time. All right.

Oh, thank you, Chris. I mean, it's been... Getting to know you has been amazing. Getting to watch your growth and success is incredible. You put the pressure on me to thank and to be smart.

Oh, thank you, Chris. I mean, it's been... Getting to know you has been amazing. Getting to watch your growth and success is incredible. You put the pressure on me to thank and to be smart.

So yeah, I guess it's reciprocal. But thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Big fan of you and modern wisdom. So thank you. Appreciate you too, dude. All right.

So yeah, I guess it's reciprocal. But thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Big fan of you and modern wisdom. So thank you. Appreciate you too, dude. All right.

that was better than me that's better than me now right so is that the but who can think no one that's still even running who can think 40 years in advance right so so all you're thinking is about well this is what i do and i just got to keep doing it but it's sounds really easy isn't it interesting i don't know of any books that have been written about consistency

that was better than me that's better than me now right so is that the but who can think no one that's still even running who can think 40 years in advance right so so all you're thinking is about well this is what i do and i just got to keep doing it but it's sounds really easy isn't it interesting i don't know of any books that have been written about consistency

But you carry the rock. Also, what did we do, 11 miles? Too much, too many.

But you carry the rock. Also, what did we do, 11 miles? Too much, too many.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think that you asked that question, you know, why or how or whatever. But I wonder if like everybody goes back to their childhood. I mean, childhood trauma does kind of affect us forever. Right. But like my childhood, childhood was pretty, a lot of upheaval, a lot of ups and downs. So maybe the one thing I could control was what I was doing.

And, you know, I think that you asked that question, you know, why or how or whatever. But I wonder if like everybody goes back to their childhood. I mean, childhood trauma does kind of affect us forever. Right. But like my childhood, childhood was pretty, a lot of upheaval, a lot of ups and downs. So maybe the one thing I could control was what I was doing.

You know, like even in the first book I talked about as a five-year-old, I was in first grade and I would go before school and run a mile by myself. And I would do is 31 times from the fence to the fence. You had to do that 31 times back and forth for a mile. And I would, I started school early. I do that as a five-year-old.

You know, like even in the first book I talked about as a five-year-old, I was in first grade and I would go before school and run a mile by myself. And I would do is 31 times from the fence to the fence. You had to do that 31 times back and forth for a mile. And I would, I started school early. I do that as a five-year-old.

So maybe nothing was, I wasn't in control of anything, but I was in control of that. So maybe that hasn't changed. Maybe it's like, no matter what happens, I know I'm getting my run in. I know I'm going to – even if the whole day goes to shit, I think you kind of mentioned this. You at least got one win. There's a win in there somewhere.

So maybe nothing was, I wasn't in control of anything, but I was in control of that. So maybe that hasn't changed. Maybe it's like, no matter what happens, I know I'm getting my run in. I know I'm going to – even if the whole day goes to shit, I think you kind of mentioned this. You at least got one win. There's a win in there somewhere.

Yeah. I've been injured and I have a big race coming up Monday and I've been injured. It stemmed from my foot, but now it's up to the hamstring where every time I tried to run hard, it would tweak my hamstring. So I was supposed to do Boston with Truett, my son. I was supposed to do Eugene. We're going to do that as a family and race and do all that. I couldn't do either one of them. Right.

Yeah. I've been injured and I have a big race coming up Monday and I've been injured. It stemmed from my foot, but now it's up to the hamstring where every time I tried to run hard, it would tweak my hamstring. So I was supposed to do Boston with Truett, my son. I was supposed to do Eugene. We're going to do that as a family and race and do all that. I couldn't do either one of them. Right.

So, but I knew I had this big 250 mile race coming up on Monday and And I'm like, well, I can't just not train. So I just had been walking around Eugene and I was, one day I walked 27 miles, took me like six hours.

So, but I knew I had this big 250 mile race coming up on Monday and And I'm like, well, I can't just not train. So I just had been walking around Eugene and I was, one day I walked 27 miles, took me like six hours.

Yeah, it's so, you know, and that's kind of like these long races, like 250 miles, you are walking because you can't run all the uphill. You can't run for three days with no sleep, right? So you have to, there's strategic walking. So I'm like, Okay, fuck it. I guess I'm just going to hone my walking game. And I've just been trying to get 15 minute miles, which is a pretty good walk.

Yeah, it's so, you know, and that's kind of like these long races, like 250 miles, you are walking because you can't run all the uphill. You can't run for three days with no sleep, right? So you have to, there's strategic walking. So I'm like, Okay, fuck it. I guess I'm just going to hone my walking game. And I've just been trying to get 15 minute miles, which is a pretty good walk.

You know, if you try to get four miles an hour and I was just doing that. So that I think was last week I walked 150 miles. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would, instead of sitting and rehabbing, like I should, I'm not, I'm not running. I'll just fucking walk all day. So that's what I did.

You know, if you try to get four miles an hour and I was just doing that. So that I think was last week I walked 150 miles. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would, instead of sitting and rehabbing, like I should, I'm not, I'm not running. I'll just fucking walk all day. So that's what I did.

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

He's... Yeah, he's a machine right now. You know, it's weird because I get credit for my kids, you know, and they're like, oh, you must have done such a good job. I didn't. I mean, I pushed those boys way too hard. I mean, I was just, I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was young. I was in my 20s. So I didn't know how to be a dad. My dad was never around.

I hated my stepdad, so I knew I definitely didn't want to be like him, but I didn't know what a dad was supposed to be. And I'm like, well, okay, I'm just going to prepare these kids. I know how life is. I know life will fucking kick you in the nuts. So they're going to be ready for anything. Life is competition. They're going to be ready to compete.

So I pushed them really hard, and it was not great all the time. How so?

Um, you know, it was just always a battle. It's just like, you know, it's, we're running every day. You guys got home from school. Okay. Get your stuff on. We're going to go do Pisgah. No kid wants to go run a mountain. And I'm like, no, this is because the way I thought it thought it of, of it was I had a terrible childhood, but it made me tough. So I'm like, you guys have everything.

You have everything I ever wanted. Your dad's around. Your mom is here. She loves you. You have every shoe you want, every basketball camp you want to go to, you go to. I said, so the way this is going, you're going to grow up to be a couple of big pussies. we're going to make you tough. So I would just make them do hard things.

And, and, uh, I made it, they both did half marathons when they were seven and eight years old. True. It just put up a picture. He looks like he's this tall. He was tiny at eight years, eight years old, but he ran a one 54 half like this tall, which is eight something minute miles. And, um,

All that to say that, yeah, I had the kids do really hard things for many years to prepare them for what I said was life's challenges. And it made it, you know, if I was, it reminded me, did you ever see the movie Tree of Life?

You're great. Yeah. And I, uh, I'm thankful we were able to go out to, you know, where I grew up and I could share that part with you too. Cause I just wanted, and I've heard you mention like on a few of your podcasts, you've mentioned, you know, the poser on the rock and the gym and like the stuff that I do and kind of reference to, um,

So Brad Pitt's in it and great movie, but he was super hard dad there. When he would leave, it was like fucking playtime, right? Mom, kids jumping on the beds. And then dad would come home and be like, oh God. So I said, this reminds me of me when I was, when you go out of town, it's just playtime, come back. It's like, oh shit. So that's not great when you're the bad guy all the time.

You know, dads are usually the disciplinary and that's whatever. But I was also like, you know, making them do these really hard things. So they see now and they see all the success, but it wasn't great. And anybody from the outside in would look and say, what's wrong with that? That dad is pushing those kids too hard. You know, it's like any basketball game. I'm just like...

a loose ball you better be on that floor and i said i want to see floor burns on your knees i want you diving on i want you playing the harder than any kid out there so that's a hard That's a hard thing to live up to. Kids just want to have fun. They want to play. They're not looking to compete every day, but I made them compete. So it was a challenge.

Now you see what that results in, you know, and, you know, Tanner, he was a ranger. He's fricking badass. It's, probably tougher than Truett and then Truett's, you know, doing these crazy things and getting all this attention. And yeah, I mean, it's great. I'm, I'm glad to see it, but, um, I didn't, I wasn't perfect raising.

Yeah, I regret, um, I regret, I remember when Tanner went to the army, um, He's a deputy back home. Very proud of him. Such an important job. He, you know, a corrections officer just worked at the jail, but still it's, you know, a good job. It's like paid, paid the bills. I was proud of him. We need people who need men to do that.

So he said he was going to join the army and he wanted to be a ranger. And I'm just like, you know, you get deployed and I'm thinking, what if, I think it was because I would tell them that average is failing. If you look around, you see the average person. That's not us. That's not what we want to be. So we're not, yes, people need to work at gas stations and do things, whatever. That's fine.

But that's not what we're settled for. So he said he wanted to quit. He didn't want to be a deputy more. He wanted to be a ranger because he had more to offer this world. And I was thinking, was that me who fucked up and said this, that just having a regular job was somehow failing? And I just had so many regrets. And I was just like, I told him he's getting ready to go to basic training.

And I'm like, I said, Tanner, I'm like, there's nothing wrong with having a regular job, being a family man. And I said, there's nothing. I was wrong. I was wrong to say what I said, raising new kids. And, um, cause I was thinking about what if he got deployed and was killed? And it's just like, because of shit I said, trying to make my boys tough and this is a result.

So yeah, I was like, yeah, I definitely have had regrets over how, how hard I pushed them.

that lifestyle or, or how I grew up because I, I wanted to share it with you because it's so much different than, well, in some ways different, but in some ways I felt alone too, just like you did. But I think when people, they hear like little nuggets from somebody else and then they always latch on to whatever they can identify with.

So there's a few things that you mentioned that, uh, that really resonated with me, but I was just thankful to share everything, my little slice of the world with you, and it was awesome.

I like, you know, you've kind of repurposed some stuff. So I love seeing that, but I think it's just that

you know so yeah it's uh and and i was thinking also too it's not just like what you do but when you have that mindset about life is competition um hard work is is the the key whatever that's that is impacting how you talk and how you carry yourself because everybody says says the right thing they they tell their kids what you're supposed to tell your kids it's like

as you said, no, you hold the door for women. You, you know, be respectful. Everybody says the right stuff, but how you carry yourself and then how you, how you talk, not when you're delivering some ultimatum or some direction, but just how you, what's your mindset. And that's when it's not controlled, when it's not, you're not thinking about it. So

question about what do i deserve yeah from life that was a great analogy and i can't maybe it's in the book also but that puritan work work ethic you know we talked about where you know you're supposed to work and i think you mentioned i can't but like the work i can't remember how you how you told the story but was it about the priests that used to work out in the sun in the

My mindset was always, let's do more, perform more, push harder. I guess to your point that even if I wasn't, they were seeing that. Of course. It's, yeah, it's, you know, you talked about Truett, you know, originally, but even for him, your story sort of reminded me of his, like, people see him now and they're like, I mean, he's easy to, he gets hate too. Cause he's easy to hate. Definitely.

Um, he's got a lot going for him and that's, that will build some resentment over with some guys, but for him, he lost for years. He, he didn't miss a day lifting weights for like 14 years, still hasn't. I started them lifting when they're 14, both him and Tanner. And since that time, he hasn't missed more than a day. So it was loss after loss after loss. He's like tiny, not getting big.

And he mentioned this, we did this, we're doing this video on his pull-ups that, you know, he broke the world record. And he's just like, he goes, I don't think, he goes, I didn't realize that Tanner was kicking my ass every day as his older brother. Anytime we'd compete, me against him, I would never let the kids win. It was always like, it was always a battle. Always crying.

I mean, kicking the basketball down the street because they're so mad. Go get it.

Tanner, I was throwing like football as hard as I could, making him catch it because he's a receiver. Drops it, punches the ground, breaks his hand. So there's like all these losses, essentially. So Truett said, I didn't know that. Yeah. I was getting beat by my older brother. I was getting beat by you every day.

He goes, I didn't realize Tanner was the biggest beast, one of the biggest beasts he's ever met. And he goes, and I didn't know you were who you were. I thought, he said, I just thought I was weak and a loser. I didn't know that I was going against these people that were making me.

So people see him now, and I'm like, if you could see him back when he was 14 years old, and when he's in high school, he was five foot, like 90 pounds, got cut from the basketball team, even though he was really good and most skilled, because he was too small. They don't see all that. They see now and they're just like, oh, what is he on steroids?

And it's just like, no, this is a kid who hasn't missed a day in the gym for 14 years and trains for hours every day and doesn't drink, doesn't do anything but get enough rest to perform every single day. This is what you get. when you're that dedicated. But people, they want to ignore that part.

Yeah. They reckon with it. Yeah. It's a, you know, that's, it's kind of a double or short because you, nobody can identify or relate to Usain Bolt because he's got that God given talent, but. and it's, it's kind of been what I've used also is like, you can come from nothing, a regular job and had success. So then it kind of, it puts a pressure on other regular guys.

Yeah. And so both Truett and I have benefited from that. It's just like, he looks like a regular guy running in jeans, but he's doing these incredible things. Or it's like, And then, so it does allow him, because if you look at his followers, it resonates more with regular people because it gives them hope that, oh, maybe I can be better.

Then like an elite Olympic athlete doesn't have near the followers. Truett, who is like a run fluencer is what, you know, they, some of these elites say this new craze of marathon excitement and these run groups and all this. It's just like, they don't deserve it because they're not, They're not elite like I am, but because they can relate to the average person, that's where they get the power.

So yes, you get criticized by the regular people who feel threatened, like, okay, now I'm expected to do shit like this too, but you also benefit from it because-

Yeah, it's been crazy to see. I mean, it's not like nobody's immune to being criticized or nobody's immune to the effect of being criticized. Nobody likes to read the shit people say. And he's no different. But I just would... I would just encourage people to take a look and think about it.

It's like, I mean, cause I can think when I first started training and I was bow hunting and having success and I was running marathons and I remember the, the old guard or the gatekeepers would say, Oh yeah. So you have to, now you have to run a marathon to kill an elk. And I'm like, Nobody ever said that. I'm just, I'm just showing you what I do.

You know, you can do whatever you want, but it like put this expectation there. And, you know, and now when people look at, at Truett, I just want to remind people that there was a time when he, I could help him up on the pull-up bar. He was not getting a pull-up done. He had new skinny fat. You've heard that term. Yeah. You couldn't get any more skinny fat than my boys were.

They were just skinny, regular young boys, skinny arms, two bodies. It's just like nothing special, but that's where it starts. That's where everybody starts.

footage going up the mountain with the rock and you chose talking about chosen and unchosen suffering that that's gonna last forever for me i mean it's such a good a good point you know and just that setting to have that message delivered at that time was just so powerful so yeah yeah i uh i really appreciate how complimentary you were about me in the book uh it feels like most of the first chapter is some bullshit that i've stolen or said well well look i if

Um, next, uh, oh, he's doing a last man standing race here in Austin. Okay. That's the next place. Next race. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's, that's a 4.2 mile loop every hour for as long as you can do it. Yep. So that's, but Guinness won't approve a jeans marathon.

I have no idea. Hmm. Cause Truett tried to do that too. And I tried to do like, I was going to run a marathon with a bow. Okay. Like just run with it. Yep. They wouldn't approve that either. So I don't know why, but they'll approve dressed as Santa wearing Crocs. A guy just, this other guy in Boston, Jordan Maddox, he ran in dressed as a banana. So it's a world record. Okay. As a fruit. Okay.

Yeah, I think people, I think people love the discussion, but you're so good at articulating thoughts, ideas, sharing things you've read, just really putting, giving context that people can really take home. That's, you know, you just get these soundbites that are so powerful. So that's, that's your skill set. Yeah. You're great at it.

So, but they won't agree.

I don't know. Actually, I don't know.

I don't know if it's banana, fruit, oranges.

It's a good choice.

It's unsurprising or surprising?

oh yeah yeah i i'd love to see it i mean um yeah truce doing good as far as like he's selling his sponsorships and he's doing like road to sub 230 or diatrine so you know it's like a weekly video series so yeah he's i love to see it what was watching him do that the most recent pull-up record like um yeah i mean it's I just remember it's a big ask, 10,000 pull-ups.

You got two contact points, basically, your hands. That's a lot of pressure, a lot of reps, a lot of little stuff that can go wrong, ligaments, tendons. Goggins tried it a few times before he got it. And one time, I think live on Good Morning American, got injured. So did it alive some other time and got injured.

So there's no guarantee you're going to make it unscathed through a challenge, 24 hours of pull-ups, but for Truett, I mean, he's so dedicated and obsessed. He trained so hard. It's like, and when he got it, I just, you know, that night, I just remember saying, you know, good job, not surprised. This is, this is what you're supposed to do. This is,

If you weren't doing shit like this, then I'd be like, what the fuck's going on? So this is what I expected. This is the expectation that's always been there. I told the boys and my daughter too, for that matter, but you guys aren't normal. I'm not, normal isn't okay. Average isn't okay. You're supposed to be doing stuff like this. That's why we're here.

So it's like, I said good job, but yeah, I'm not surprised. Expected job. Yeah, that was it. He did what he's supposed to do.

I think it's cool that... I think it's cool that it's something that no human has ever done. He did 10,000. No human's ever been to 10,024 hours on pull-ups. So it's a, and as you mentioned earlier, anybody who's tried to do a pull-up, Fucking five pull-ups is hard. Five pull-ups is hard for me. It's like 10,000? Crazy.

Um, yeah, I don't, I think I might, I might say passion, love. Sometimes the, the saying I have with love is like, uh, love makes me strong. Hate makes me unstoppable. So I still lean for whatever reason I am motivated by hate, by people talking shit, by people not believing in me. If somebody supports you, I mean, it's, uh, that's great.

Hate and people discounting what I've done or my effort or my goals, that. That's what drives me. I don't know why. But love is great. Support. I appreciate support. But I just think that, you know, I will... You said love and passion. So passion, yes. Because...

in, in my book, I talk about outliers and, you know, you're one of them, but what, what makes somebody an outlier in my mind is this passion, passion for this thing. What's this thing? What's this thing they do for you? It's just, you know, thought provoking intellectual discussions, like peeling back the onions, figuring out, you know, modern wisdom. Um, And you're the best at it, right?

So you had this passion to learn, to learn more about human behavior and the brain and the body and sexual attractiveness and different things like that. Passion drove that, right? So I think passion is what sets people apart. Love and hate, that can go either way.

Yeah. I mean, but when somebody says, you know, I mean, people say, yeah, you know, love you. It's just like, is that real? But hate.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's where I get, I'm more fueled by that.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. If somebody's telling you how good you are all the time, for one, you can start to believe it. And then to me, if I'm hearing that, I'm losing my edge. I'm like, I don't want to hear that shit. That's I appreciate it, but I want, I want an edge. I want, I want to know why you don't think I'm. So that's what, that's what poser. That's why it's so powerful to me.

I like when people say, oh yeah, fucking cam poser. Yeah. Yeah.

Man. Uh, what? Yeah, I don't know. What's crazy is I don't, I don't remember ever being asked this before. So what, um, Man, I don't know. Now, now it's like when you go through life and there probably was decision making at some point, but now it's kind of just what I do sort of. And, you know, I'm just going to get up. I'm going to get my whatever work I have.

Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. When you, when you were saying that, I was thinking about, um, yeah, I don't know. It's, uh, I'm, I'm happiest, uh,

when I'm suffering so I've heard people say like they said this mostly about Goggins I don't know you've talked to him too but it's just like asking him it's like are you ever happy it's just like for him he's happy when he's miserable so it's like well whose definition of happy you're talking about is you're happy eating fucking donuts watching tv That sounds miserable to me.

So it's like the people that get these words and they're like, are you happy? Are you enjoying yourself? Or do you ever have fun? It's like running up that mountain is fun. that's what I like. So yeah, it's a, when you're talking about pleasure and passion, I was trying to, to weigh that out there on, on what is, what is happiness for people, you know?

And also another thing, um, I see you put up like 3 million subscribers. So it's like, is that what type of, does that do anything for you? Is that I mean, cause you'll never let off. You're like, okay, I made it. I'm good. I got 3 million. That was my goal. But you put that up. Like sometimes people will put up things like, like I made it like, this is my, I'm here, but I've arrived to you.

That's just, what is that?

How do you... Is that a measurable that tells you that? No. Because some people look at... I haven't looked at where your podcast is on the charts today. Okay. I like measurables. I need to do this many miles, this fast, at this pace. I want this many... What downloads to the pod? It's like, I love measure measurables. And I think the, my boys have kind of taken on that.

I'm going to get it in, whether that's 20 miles or whatever. whatever it is, shooting the bow, um, you know, now it's content creation. You got, that's a never ending process, but now just the hard stuff. I think you're talking about like the challenging and, um, the mounds. That's just what I do. Um, Before it was what, before it was what I do. I don't know.

Yeah. I was curious about that just because we're so inundated with these measurables every day with the follower count, the likes, the, you know, when you start getting into podcasts, then it is a downloads because in that affects what you can ask for advertisers. And that's all they give a fuck about. They don't care about what type of connection you had with your guests.

They're like, okay, cool. How many downloads was it? You know? So it's like, we get kind of roped into this trap of everything is measurable and it's like, you're not successful unless you're here. And then when you're here, you better be here. So I was just kind of curious how you navigated that just because it is, it's life nowadays. It is. And it's easy. It's an easy like,

I think that was where that was that uncertainty. It's like, where do I fit in this world? What, what do I, and it's not even like, I never even asked myself, what do I have to offer? Cause I didn't think I had anything to offer. So you never even got to that, that part, but it was just like, is this it? Is this just going to work and trying to pay bills.

Everybody loves like, how do I compare? So it's an easy comparison. That's why you look at the list on like whose podcast is highest rated. Right. But I think Joe's done a really good job of this, too. It's like and I want to kind of adopt. Well, your mindset is very similar now. That's why he can have on somebody like me.

who when I first went on there, nobody, nobody knew who I was, but he, Joe doesn't care. He's just like, am I interested in this person? Most podcasts are like, let's go with the biggest guest. That's going to give me the biggest.

I know. We got a lot of good material out of that discussion, that time, that day. I still see clips everywhere.

And it's like, I remember like even a tactic I had, I haven't even done a checkbook in a long time, but my wife's in charge of that. But like, even just writing out checks and I would just, I was never, I never thought it was going to, anything I did was going to last. So I'd be like, if I, if I had a check for like $17, I'd just make, make it for $20, put it in a thing.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. Uh, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's a tough one. It's like, uh, You know, you want to be successful. I like – I think when I was – you were kind of explaining that. The best feedback is when somebody says they really enjoyed whatever discussion you had. And they're not talking about how many people listened to it. You know, it's just how it impacted them. And it's like –

I'm not great at, quote, podcasting, which is why I do the Lift, Run, Shoot with my guests because I can connect on that. And then that hopefully helps the conversation. But yeah, it's tough. It's tough sitting down and really – Um, yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe it's not tough. Maybe it's just, we don't do this. Maybe we, how often do you sit down and just talk to somebody? I never do it.

Like, not like this. So maybe it's like, maybe you can learn a lot just by having a discussion and maybe a podcast is an excuse that we'd never, we wouldn't, we wouldn't do this normally.

Cause I'm not going to be like, call up one of my buddies and say, Hey, you want to go talk for a couple hours? I was like, okay. Nobody would say, sure.

And I'm like, well, at the end of the day, I should have more in here. Instead of being exact, I just wanted this cushion of like, I just want to have a little bit more than what I think. And then I can just get through a challenging time. That's as far into the future as I ever thought. It's just like, let's round up in the checkbook. Yeah.

Oh, it's the long race. You know, the, well, this race I've coming up is 250 miles. I've done 240 miles. I've been 200 miles, 100 miles is hard. Um, marathons are hard when you're pushing a lot of hard hunts where you're just miserable, you know, in the snow, long hunt, Kodiak Island for 12 days. So it's, um, though, but those are, um,

Those, they're not predictable, but you know what you're getting into. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, you know, it's going to be terrible and it's going to, you're going to be miserable probably for a while, but that's part of the deal. That's just like, that's why you sign up is that test. I'm trying to test myself. I want to see if I'm tough enough to do this.

So those, when I think of hard, it's those.

um yeah i mean yeah i've been on uh i don't know a lot of hard hunts in the mounds just being soaking soaking wet i mean one time me and roy were sheep hunting roy's my friend who fell but before obviously before he fell we were sheep hunting um miserable weather conditions super steep uh And we were blood trailing this ram and it wasn't a good shot.

So it's like, it's going to be a long, hard blood trail to kind of decipher and get this animal. And it got dark. And then a grizzly was kind of circling the tents. And I was just like, I don't give a fuck. I'm going to bed. I'm not, I'm not even, I don't care about this bear. I don't know what's going to happen. Whatever. So tired, just went to bed. That's being miserable.

On Kodiak, you know, you get dropped off. And I remember in my book, Backcountry Bowhunting, the pilot like wrote down the day he's supposed to come back and pick us up on his jeans with a pin. So it's like, hopefully he doesn't wash those jeans. He's going to come back in what, 12 days, two weeks to get us. And this is first week in November. So it's pouring down rain every day.

Kodiak is just south of the mainland there. And it's just miserable. Every day you're wet. It's just miserable. So, yeah. Then if you talk about the races, you're going the long races. So in Moab 240, I think I slept for about, I don't know. I can't remember now. It's been a few years, but two to four hours. And it took me 79 hours to finish a race.

So over three days and slept, you know, maybe four hours total. So that when... you know what it feels like to get a good night's rest. It's just like, nothing feels better if it seems like, so on the opposite of that, when all you want to do is sleep, but you have to keep pushing for 240 miles, it's, that seems overwhelming.

So to just, to build a muster up the strength to still take another step where every step is an effort. And so if you think when I go running, every mile is 2,000 steps. So if I'm doing 200, you know, so it's 500,000 steps, 500,000 steps roughly in every one as an effort, It's tough. That hurts.

Just so I got a little buffer and that there was no future. If that was thinking about the future, that's all I did right there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

500,000.

Yeah.

Yeah, Laz.

Yeah. Barkley, there's no finishers sometimes, but the backyards, there's always going to be one person who outlasts the other. So that also called last man standing is kind of what they're called. But yeah, it's.

No, I mean, the race is still there. It's just you needed somebody else to go with you to go to the next level. Yeah. So the race never loses. You never really win the race. You just outlast.

You outlast the other man or woman. But yeah, those fascinating, isn't it? That how long can you run four miles an hour? Yeah. It's crazy. Now there's guys who have went 400 miles. Do you know this? No. 450 miles.

Yeah. So, God, what would that, so that'd have to be a hundred and some hours. How many days is that? That's over four days with never getting more than, so if you finish and say 50 minutes, you get 10 minutes before you have to be on the start line. So never getting more than 10 minutes of rest. Is that typical?

Yeah, you could, but for how long? So the thing with these is the more you break your body down, the less distance you're going to be able to go. If you run fast, you're stretching.

Your muscles out, which stretching muscles out is essentially breaking them down over time. Yeah. So yeah, it's like finding that sweet spot. I think Courtney, she's won one of those before. And I think she was doing her laps in about 50 or 52 minutes. So just got, if you get eight minutes, get a little food in, sit down for a sec, the back on the line.

Yeah. In jeans. Ah, shit. I don't know. I told him, I'm like,

mean he needs a win like if if you had he hasn't won a race so it's like he's yes he's went viral in boston and austin marathon eugene he just you know a lot of news stories and he does have the world record in the pull-ups that's all great i said but you need a win you need to be come across break that tape because i you haven't had a win yet so you show me a win that's the goal

Yeah, I mean, we always joke that... Truett always joked he got shitty genetics. That's why he had to overcome his genetics. Because really, I mean, I don't have... I have never thought I've had great genetics. If I had great genetics, I would have been able to play college football for a while.

And so I've always said, you know, I've just... Either you're average or obsessed has kind of been my thing. It's just like... I had, if I didn't want to be average, I had to be obsessed. So I just put it, tied it all into hard work. When I see the boys, I do see they have some genetic advantage for sure. But what do genetic advantages give you if you don't capitalize on them? Not much, right?

So they've just both done a good job of capitalizing on whatever gifts they've had. And then Truett is definitely maximizing them

Yeah. No, for sure. When I hear that story, what I think about is how great could he be being dedicated.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because he's comparing himself to, yes, they're elites, but could he be a legend? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. But could he be the best ever? You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I don't know. Cause Gordon Ryan, does he live pretty, I think he, does he live pretty clean? I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, because when I think about, you know, if I think, I don't know, if you think Truett, you're like, I hear people say all the time, well, if I was in this situation or if... or they've even said like, if, if I, you know, if they were raised, like true, it was raised type thing or, you know, people privilege of being made to suffer as a seven year old.

Yeah. They did. Well, Oh, that's another thing that I get worried about is some of the dads watching what he's doing and then thinking like, I'm going to have a child that does a 10,001.

And, and I, I feel bad for those kids because it was like the perfect storm for my boys. Yeah. And they were built for it. So, you know, people say I'm built for this, whatever, I don't, whatever the case, but they did eventually flourish. A lot of kids aren't going to, it's going to be a disaster. It's going to be a disaster.

And the dad is probably not going to be like living that example every day. Like I was. So it's like, then it's just like, what, you don't do this. Why am I doing? It's going to be tough.

And with more opportunity than anywhere else in the world. And that's, that's average American. That's what's crazy. I was, I'm, I was curious about what you think about this. Cause I've heard people say that, you know, I couldn't have done it without whatever their wife or their, their, whatever it's like. Um, and as you know, my wife has been supportive.

Truett's wife is very supportive, but to me, it's just like, So, I don't know. That's why I want to hear what you think. Because yes, I think... So if, if say true is saying, oh, I'm going to go, I need to go train. And his wife was saying again, but so I could see where that would be an issue.

But to me, it's just like, maybe it goes back to the point you started to make this whole time about like parenting or whatever. It's like, I don't know. I don't want to say if it's fate, but to me it's like, yeah, support is nice, but I fucking don't need anything. I do the same shit. Whether you love me, hate me, support me or don't, nothing's going to stop me.

I wonder if, so can people say, well, I didn't have that environment or the support you had. That's why I didn't achieve this. Or are there people who are like, and I think of Goggins. I think he, I don't care who the fuck was in his life. He was going to be who he is no matter what.

Okay. Yeah.

Right. That makes sense. Yeah. I knew there's a reason I brought it up because you could distill it down perfectly. But yeah, I was just curious about, I've never really thought about it past like just the basics like that. So thank you for that.

Do you think it's like more... It certainly contributes, I think. Yeah.

Yeah, because it's like, I heard somebody say the other day, because now I'm thinking about like what it means to be a man and a provider type thing. Yeah, I think that, I don't know, it's hard. It's hard. I just know the pressure I felt as being a dad and a husband and like making sure everybody was taken care of, the bills were paid and all this. I just know... Yeah, I don't know.

I think men get roped into this trap of worth sometimes. And it's just, that's fine because that's how it works. You know, not many women are out there saying, I need to work harder because I need to get my husband a bigger house and a nicer car. I mean.

I don't. Yeah.

Like what's an example?

Yeah, yeah. It's from Jackson, or is it, is it Jackson City? Or no, no. What, shit, now I can't remember. Oh no, Black Canyon, fuck, now I can't remember. Black Canyon City? I don't know, to Flagstaff.

I mean, it'll be hot during the day, of course, but it's kind of high desert, so it could be cold at night.

Yeah, like when I did Moab, for example, it was maybe 90 during the day, and then one night it got down to nine in the mountains. Quite a swing. Holy fuck. Yeah, so it's a tough one. Yeah, it'll be good. But yeah, it's always like finding that limit, essentially, because... when you're saying that, I was thinking back to like, I mean, when I grew up,

I didn't even know people actually paid off cars. I thought you just had a car payment. It was like, I didn't know, or I thought like that little mobile home I showed you, I thought I'd lived there and I didn't actually know people paid off their houses. I thought you just paid rent or your house payment forever.

And I was just like, so now, now it's just like, I have to readjust, you know, my house was paid off my, and I'm just like, Okay. Now I don't really know what to do. I don't really know what the goal is supposed to be.

Yeah. That was, that was awesome. That was the dream. Yeah. Those are called manufactured homes. Do they not have those here?

It's like an old... They used to have a trailer park where it was like they're made out of metal. Now they look more like houses, but they're still sort of... They still come in on wheels.

Still the same, yeah. But for, you know, for out there, like where I showed you where we drove, it was just like, shit, that's awesome.

Yeah, yeah.

I know.

Yeah, I mean, I just, well, I lean into the hate. So I'm always, any negative about me is being reinforced. So I never feel like a success, so to speak, because I'm reading these hateful things people say about me. It's hard to feel successful when you're reading what a piece of shit you are, right? So I get reminded of that daily, but also it's like,

Even when I had my regular job, I was a superintendent at the water and power company. I felt like I never deserved that job. I'm like, no, they're going to figure out. I'm not, even though I was good at it, I was good, but I always felt like I'm supposed to just be a worker. I'm a worker. That's my talent level. That's my ability. That's my intelligence is we need workers. That's me.

And so I've never, that's all. Even though I, I retired from that job and now I'm doing the other thing. It's just like, I, I'm a worker. That's, that's what I do. So whether it's running miles, lifting weights, doing the podcast, 160 episodes or whatever it is, it's just like, yeah, it's just a different form of being in the ditch. I thought that I was just going to be in a ditch, you know,

putting water lying in the ground when I worked for the utility till I retired. So it's just, it's the same. It's just work. It's just in a different form.

you believed that you were worthy of the things that you've achieved or if you believed that you were good enough um if i felt like i deserved this because this is part of it um man i don't even i've never felt that way i've never um how would i feel Seems like it'd feel good. Would it feel, wouldn't it? I'm guessing. I mean, wouldn't it feel good to feel like you're a success?

I think that'd feel good. I've never felt that. So I don't, um, cause even, even if somebody told me that, or if you, if you, if somebody says that right now, like I would just be like, I would just discount it and be like, no, no, they're fucking full of shit. They're just saying, that's what you're supposed to say to people. I mean, I wouldn't believe it. So I don't know. I'm not, I don't know.

What if, let me give you another one.

Man, I don't, um, it means like take a step back and say, wow, I made it.

I felt like I did what I was supposed to do. So if I didn't raise the kids to be that way, I failed because they had it. Obviously, they have it. So you have made it. So you were a success. Yeah. No.

Yeah, that's, I mean, and that's the secret because most people, like you said, you started to get a little muscle, started to feel a little bit better about yourself. But how many people get there and then slide back? Yeah. and then have to start back over to get there again.

I just did what I was supposed to do. I understand. So you can only fail, right?

Yes.

Because what if they weren't achieving these things? Then I failed. Because they had it in them. So as a parent, aren't you supposed to get the most, have your kids believe that they can achieve incredible things and get them to do it?

Because you're not carrying it on your head.

Because when I think about even this race coming up, I broke my foot. I've had all these injuries. And it's like, of course, my wife, people that care about me, is like, we can't do the race. I'm like, I have to do the race. Well, because Speedland has the shoes coming out. It's a big promotion about me doing this race with the Cocodona 250 shoes. Got a road shoe and like this.

You know, so they get, a lot of times they get a little of that dopamine is whatever, but a little of that positive reinforcement hit and that feels great, but then they still can't,

I have expectations. The race let me in.

to drive awareness and to drive interest it's like i got people this is relying on me relying on me i not doing it is not an option well you're hurt doesn't matter so it's like yeah i'm not quite there i'm not quite there yet to where i can be like because normally it'd be like most people would probably be like i'm injured i was going to do it but i broke my foot and

And anybody would say, oh, yeah, that makes sense. That's a good reason. That's a good reason. But I can't do it. So I can't.

I'm going to have one here on the 12th, Tanner.

I mean, if kids don't change you, do you grant?

Yeah. You know, I think it would be different because as you said, like, even if I had kids now with where I am socially, economically, you know, when they were born, we didn't have anything, you know, so it was just like, it was a grind different now. So yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe it will be different.

can't make that consistent you know because life gets in the way or i don't know they get distracted or they they lose enthusiasm whatever the key is that consistency decade after decade after decade and that's why like i even think like me back in high school yes i was an athlete but there was better athletes now i've been doing it for 40 years there's nobody

Thank you. And your drink is amazing.

Get me dialed in.

Undeniable. Chris Williamson is featured. Modern Wisdom.

Outlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Undeniable. It's available everywhere. It ships on May 6th. The goal is... Hang on.

That's why I'm doing this now.

Yeah. Oh, right. Okay. Well, I just said that... The book, you know, a book release is usually pretty predictable. You go and you do these appearances and that. I said, mine's going to be a little different. I'm going to be doing a 250 mile race and the book comes out. And that's, to me, that means you are undeniable. You're living the philosophy. Yeah. So it's like-

Last time they had Endure, they got it up to number seven on New York Times, so I got screwed. I was the best seller of those, but it's an editorial. So just give me what I deserve. I just want number one this time. All right.

Oh, thank you, Chris. I mean, it's been... Getting to know you has been amazing. Getting to watch your growth and success is incredible. You put the pressure on me to thank and to be smart.

So yeah, I guess it's reciprocal. But thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Big fan of you and modern wisdom. So thank you. Appreciate you too, dude. All right.

that was better than me that's better than me now right so is that the but who can think no one that's still even running who can think 40 years in advance right so so all you're thinking is about well this is what i do and i just got to keep doing it but it's sounds really easy isn't it interesting i don't know of any books that have been written about consistency

But you carry the rock. Also, what did we do, 11 miles? Too much, too many.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think that you asked that question, you know, why or how or whatever. But I wonder if like everybody goes back to their childhood. I mean, childhood trauma does kind of affect us forever. Right. But like my childhood, childhood was pretty, a lot of upheaval, a lot of ups and downs. So maybe the one thing I could control was what I was doing.

You know, like even in the first book I talked about as a five-year-old, I was in first grade and I would go before school and run a mile by myself. And I would do is 31 times from the fence to the fence. You had to do that 31 times back and forth for a mile. And I would, I started school early. I do that as a five-year-old.

So maybe nothing was, I wasn't in control of anything, but I was in control of that. So maybe that hasn't changed. Maybe it's like, no matter what happens, I know I'm getting my run in. I know I'm going to – even if the whole day goes to shit, I think you kind of mentioned this. You at least got one win. There's a win in there somewhere.

Yeah. I've been injured and I have a big race coming up Monday and I've been injured. It stemmed from my foot, but now it's up to the hamstring where every time I tried to run hard, it would tweak my hamstring. So I was supposed to do Boston with Truett, my son. I was supposed to do Eugene. We're going to do that as a family and race and do all that. I couldn't do either one of them. Right.

So, but I knew I had this big 250 mile race coming up on Monday and And I'm like, well, I can't just not train. So I just had been walking around Eugene and I was, one day I walked 27 miles, took me like six hours.

Yeah, it's so, you know, and that's kind of like these long races, like 250 miles, you are walking because you can't run all the uphill. You can't run for three days with no sleep, right? So you have to, there's strategic walking. So I'm like, Okay, fuck it. I guess I'm just going to hone my walking game. And I've just been trying to get 15 minute miles, which is a pretty good walk.

You know, if you try to get four miles an hour and I was just doing that. So that I think was last week I walked 150 miles. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would, instead of sitting and rehabbing, like I should, I'm not, I'm not running. I'll just fucking walk all day. So that's what I did.

And no repercussions.

And no repercussions.

Nothing. How does that – how does that happen? But then also how is there no repercussions?

Nothing. How does that – how does that happen? But then also how is there no repercussions?

So where does hunting videos fit in your YouTube algorithm?

So where does hunting videos fit in your YouTube algorithm?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's that's where. Fuck. What is fascinating, you know, is like that's what I do like about the endurance stuff that we're doing is those people. Imagine how far they can get in a day. Oh, yeah. Probably hundreds of miles. And so nowadays we're so far the other way. Yeah. Where if you if you walk a mile, you've done something wrong.

That's that's where. Fuck. What is fascinating, you know, is like that's what I do like about the endurance stuff that we're doing is those people. Imagine how far they can get in a day. Oh, yeah. Probably hundreds of miles. And so nowadays we're so far the other way. Yeah. Where if you if you walk a mile, you've done something wrong.

That's what's like. It's pretty cool to think about. We're still making our bodies go. So this 250 mile race. I mean, that's kind of cool. Yeah, it is cool. But back then they probably did that shit all the time. All the time. So we're built for that.

That's what's like. It's pretty cool to think about. We're still making our bodies go. So this 250 mile race. I mean, that's kind of cool. Yeah, it is cool. But back then they probably did that shit all the time. All the time. So we're built for that.

You know what I mean? They probably had to. Of course they had to. But humans as a species are built for endurance. So that's what I like about those events.

You know what I mean? They probably had to. Of course they had to. But humans as a species are built for endurance. So that's what I like about those events.

It's like, this is what we're supposed to be doing.

It's like, this is what we're supposed to be doing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You got to be either an open country where you can keep eyes on them or be able to track them really well.

You got to be either an open country where you can keep eyes on them or be able to track them really well.

I think they still do it.

I think they still do it.

I think they still do it.

I think they still do it.

Yeah, for sure. You know? Yeah. They're so good at tracking in Africa because of that. It's just like they can stay on those tracks with no blood or anything because, you know, that's the name of the game. Keep your eyes on them.

Yeah, for sure. You know? Yeah. They're so good at tracking in Africa because of that. It's just like they can stay on those tracks with no blood or anything because, you know, that's the name of the game. Keep your eyes on them.

I've never seen him better. I heard that, too.

I've never seen him better. I heard that, too.

Yeah, I mean, they can follow tracks like across just solid rock. What? And it's just looking at little scuffs. They can see little scuffs from the hooves.

Yeah, I mean, they can follow tracks like across just solid rock. What? And it's just looking at little scuffs. They can see little scuffs from the hooves.

Yeah, because I've been over there, you know, hunting quite a bit. And I would sit, just as you just said, like, what are you seeing? And so I would ask them. It's hard because they speak Swahili, so you got to... It's hard figuring it out, but I was there for three weeks one time, so I kind of got dialed in. So I would ask, what are we looking at here? What are you seeing?

Yeah, because I've been over there, you know, hunting quite a bit. And I would sit, just as you just said, like, what are you seeing? And so I would ask them. It's hard because they speak Swahili, so you got to... It's hard figuring it out, but I was there for three weeks one time, so I kind of got dialed in. So I would ask, what are we looking at here? What are you seeing?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or it's just how grass... Grass will go a certain way, and then if it's not that certain way, it's because something made it. Something pushed it out of the way.

Or it's just how grass... Grass will go a certain way, and then if it's not that certain way, it's because something made it. Something pushed it out of the way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so it's like being so... that's another reason why I love the mounds love being out. It's just, you have to be. So if you're going to be good at it in tune with everything, you have to, you have to be sensitive to almost everything. That's how you can get within bow range of an animal and get it killed or find it after you've put an arrow in it.

Yeah, so it's like being so... that's another reason why I love the mounds love being out. It's just, you have to be. So if you're going to be good at it in tune with everything, you have to, you have to be sensitive to almost everything. That's how you can get within bow range of an animal and get it killed or find it after you've put an arrow in it.

It's like, you're just deciphering all this information. Some people are good. Some people are, but mostly it's experience related. Um, Those people in Africa have learned from the best trackers there are. We haven't had to be that good here, but I've wanted to develop that skill and just get better. But it's noticing the minute details.

It's like, you're just deciphering all this information. Some people are good. Some people are, but mostly it's experience related. Um, Those people in Africa have learned from the best trackers there are. We haven't had to be that good here, but I've wanted to develop that skill and just get better. But it's noticing the minute details.

I was thinking about was there land bridges that we don't know about? I don't know.

I was thinking about was there land bridges that we don't know about? I don't know.

Well, you guys, I know you guys were talking about, you know, Pope and Young went over on the boats and took, remember they took tubs of arrows?

Well, you guys, I know you guys were talking about, you know, Pope and Young went over on the boats and took, remember they took tubs of arrows?

And they're going to be gone for like, what, seven months? Yeah. And then Waddell had some great stories about talking to his wife about, hey, I'm going to go hunt and be back next year. You know, because it's like so long of a boat ride.

And they're going to be gone for like, what, seven months? Yeah. And then Waddell had some great stories about talking to his wife about, hey, I'm going to go hunt and be back next year. You know, because it's like so long of a boat ride.

I just know that, you know, Fred Bear has that quote, the history of archery is the history of mankind. I always think of that. So as long as man's been around, we've had to kill. The archery equipment is...

I just know that, you know, Fred Bear has that quote, the history of archery is the history of mankind. I always think of that. So as long as man's been around, we've had to kill. The archery equipment is...

Yeah, see the Alaska Peninsula.

Yeah, see the Alaska Peninsula.

Yeah, because the physical characteristics of this bow are strikingly in several respects. So it's like. Yeah.

Yeah, because the physical characteristics of this bow are strikingly in several respects. So it's like. Yeah.

That's a recurve.

That's a recurve.

Yeah, I thought that they were saying that no matter where they found these bows, they were all very similar. Right, they had the fletchings. It goes to your point of how did that information get around the world? How did they figure that out? Yeah.

Yeah, I thought that they were saying that no matter where they found these bows, they were all very similar. Right, they had the fletchings. It goes to your point of how did that information get around the world? How did they figure that out? Yeah.

Well, that kind of reminds me of what happened in Canada with the truckers. Yes. Exactly. I mean, they froze their bank accounts. Yeah. Or people who donated to them.

Well, that kind of reminds me of what happened in Canada with the truckers. Yes. Exactly. I mean, they froze their bank accounts. Yeah. Or people who donated to them.

That's what, you know, anytime I get those people in there for lift, run, shoot, and Wayne starts talking to him with the bow rack, he's just like showing them how to shoot a bow. And people are like, they get it. He's like, feels familiar, right? He goes, because that's what man's always done. That's why it feels familiar. So it's like people who have never done it all of a sudden are like...

That's what, you know, anytime I get those people in there for lift, run, shoot, and Wayne starts talking to him with the bow rack, he's just like showing them how to shoot a bow. And people are like, they get it. He's like, feels familiar, right? He goes, because that's what man's always done. That's why it feels familiar. So it's like people who have never done it all of a sudden are like...

Yeah. They're like, oh, this stirs something up in them.

Yeah. They're like, oh, this stirs something up in them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you know you're supposed to be excited?

How do you know you're supposed to be excited?

No.

No.

People who donated to them got their bank accounts frozen.

People who donated to them got their bank accounts frozen.

Yeah, you see an animal, you're like, I wonder if I could hit that with my arrow. Yeah. You just want to shoot at stuff.

Yeah, you see an animal, you're like, I wonder if I could hit that with my arrow. Yeah. You just want to shoot at stuff.

I know. Yeah, exactly. I zoomed in on animals with a little red dot. I mean, I'm driving, and I see horses, cows, whatever, and I'm like, I see cows, legs forward. I'm like, oh, God, I could get an arrow right in the lungs there. Perfect. That's just what you kind of program your brain to see. Right.

I know. Yeah, exactly. I zoomed in on animals with a little red dot. I mean, I'm driving, and I see horses, cows, whatever, and I'm like, I see cows, legs forward. I'm like, oh, God, I could get an arrow right in the lungs there. Perfect. That's just what you kind of program your brain to see. Right.

All-encompassing. Yeah. All-encompassing.

All-encompassing. Yeah. All-encompassing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is called a hog father. I've wanted to go over – like there's these people that have – God, what tribe is that? That have an Instagram page. I think they were the red stuff. I think in Africa. I think I've sent you that. Yes, yes, yes. I want to go and hunt with them so fucking bad. Yes, Maasai. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to go over there so bad and just hang out.

This is called a hog father. I've wanted to go over – like there's these people that have – God, what tribe is that? That have an Instagram page. I think they were the red stuff. I think in Africa. I think I've sent you that. Yes, yes, yes. I want to go and hunt with them so fucking bad. Yes, Maasai. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to go over there so bad and just hang out.

They would probably freak out when they saw your bow.

They would probably freak out when they saw your bow.

I know when I went to Tanzania, I would just shoot it like they'd put up like a buffalo quarter. The Hadza also do that.

I know when I went to Tanzania, I would just shoot it like they'd put up like a buffalo quarter. The Hadza also do that.

If they didn't have good bear hunting, I would never go there.

If they didn't have good bear hunting, I would never go there.

I just think it captures what we're trying to do in life.

I just think it captures what we're trying to do in life.

When?

When?

Be undeniable.

Be undeniable.

Here's what I've learned. This is probably going to hit pretty hard. I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but it pays to be a winner. No, I undeniable to me, it's like the people I've had on, I've learned so much from you're featured in the book, but it's like, what makes people undeniable? What allows people to regardless of what they do to rise to the top.

Here's what I've learned. This is probably going to hit pretty hard. I don't know if you've ever heard this before, but it pays to be a winner. No, I undeniable to me, it's like the people I've had on, I've learned so much from you're featured in the book, but it's like, what makes people undeniable? What allows people to regardless of what they do to rise to the top.

And it's, there's certain characteristics of each person and what it is. It's like, they have this overwhelming passion for whatever they're doing. It's like, that's all they care about. It's all they think about. Rocky Marciano, Goggins. Yeah. Whoever you know of, if you think of a person's name doing something, they're obsessed with whatever they're doing.

And it's, there's certain characteristics of each person and what it is. It's like, they have this overwhelming passion for whatever they're doing. It's like, that's all they care about. It's all they think about. Rocky Marciano, Goggins. Yeah. Whoever you know of, if you think of a person's name doing something, they're obsessed with whatever they're doing.

If you hit that fucker in the head, it wouldn't do anything.

If you hit that fucker in the head, it wouldn't do anything.

Yeah, you got no chance. Could you imagine taking a big right from that thing?

Yeah, you got no chance. Could you imagine taking a big right from that thing?

You just got to get his back. Nope. If he did get on his back, he would just grab you with one arm and throw you fucking 50 yards.

You just got to get his back. Nope. If he did get on his back, he would just grab you with one arm and throw you fucking 50 yards.

If you get your kind of bell rung a little bit and you're kind of dazed and then you're just standing there. Look how far everybody flies, too, when he hits them.

If you get your kind of bell rung a little bit and you're kind of dazed and then you're just standing there. Look how far everybody flies, too, when he hits them.

That would be a good one to end on, but here's what we really need to end on, because last time... Endure was like the number one seller and they put it number seven or something on New York Times. So we need number one. We deserve number one. We should be number one this time.

That would be a good one to end on, but here's what we really need to end on, because last time... Endure was like the number one seller and they put it number seven or something on New York Times. So we need number one. We deserve number one. We should be number one this time.

Because the New York Times bestseller list is an editorial.

Because the New York Times bestseller list is an editorial.

If it just goes based on sales, Endure would have been up there, but they gave me number seven. Yeah. So crazy. Just give me what I deserve.

If it just goes based on sales, Endure would have been up there, but they gave me number seven. Yeah. So crazy. Just give me what I deserve.

I don't know.

I don't know.